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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
289
   |
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:22:00 -
[1381] - Quote
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:Dave stark wrote:Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:Mimimimimi......check out on Sisi rigth now, seems CCP has listened to your whinning thread Herr Wilkus......they lowred the stats from the Miningships down again to something more fitting your needs beeing able to easy gank them.
So again the loudest vocal whiner voices from the PvP fraction have won again......Shame on you CCP.
stop conveying half a story; gankers complained about the ehp, miners complained about crystal sizes. BOTH concerns have been addressed. both voices have been listened to. Well i see it as antoher slap in the face from the Industrialist PvE fraction in the game, showing CCP's trend showing more love to PvP'ers then to the industrialists. As usual its working as intended, SLap the weakest in the face and hold hands to those which screaming and whining the loudest. WHich in this case HERE are the Ganker F***tards.
yeah, perhaps they did get a better deal out of it.
the changes aren't final, the hulk got a massive boost before it got a nerf, and people still haven't got around to efting/pyfaing the changes to see if hulks are in a better or worse place after today's changes.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Togg Bott
One Clone Gang
33
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:24:00 -
[1382] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Togg Bott wrote: As a part time miner... i am sadened by the massive numbers of mining ship fail fit kills. it is now very easy to survive being ganked not by fitting a mining ship to be ungankable... you just have to fit a little better than the other guy. Gankers... and i have done this in the past myself (not miner ships but afk auto pilot to jita with mass loot in them). will go for the guy that offers them the most bling for their cost. always has been. but even with the upcoming changes... we will still see people fit T2 exhumers for max yield instead of tanking them. ganking will still be profitable (maybe not quite as profitable) because CCP cant change the bot/afk miners thought process.
this is in my opinion not going to kill the gankers off... instead its gonna give them many many new targets. balance will still be there. this guy gets it He will unfortunately suffer the most in the end though. He has put in effort to survive & will be one of the few that don't deserve the inevitable hit to their wallets when veld goes back to 1 isk PU.
Actually, i look for my income to skyrocket. and for a few very logical (in my mind) reasons.
1) Fail fit is still gonna be fail fit.
2) Afk/bot miners are not gonna change their habits. idiots will be idiots no matter what CCP mandates
3) a lot of people are gonna feel that CCP has snubbed them in favor of miners and the backlash is gonna make hulkageddon look like childsplay.
4)????
5) profit |
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:27:00 -
[1383] - Quote
Hm. Is it me or you guys have so much in common with WoW forums posters? It's like the tears taste the same and your manginas are making the thinking process for you.... |
MIrple
BSC LEGION
Tactical Narcotics Team
33
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:31:00 -
[1384] - Quote
If the Hulk comes out with higher EHP then before the patch you should be happy. I have read the entire 60+ pages and I am sorry to say that I will never get that part of my life back. Yes they need a little boost with number but now just because you wanted max yeild max tank does not mean CCP should pander to you to have both. There have been many EFT fits posted on here and everyone of them has been shot down with well I don't like it. It proves me wrong. You will need to fit some tank on you ship a DCU and a MLU is a fair balance between yield and tank. The only place I see that that Hulk could use some love is with PG 10 more would be enough to make a great many of the past 60 pages irrelevant. Just my opinion. I also think that a solo Cat should not be able to take a Hulk 2 maybe its team work after all. Flame away |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
290
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:32:00 -
[1385] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:i'm hoping he means it's broken for the fact that in high sec you're able to ruin some one's day; but it should cost you something. as it stands when a catalyst ganks a hulk they can recover the cost of such a cheap ship from the hulk's wreckage and the ganker hasn't paid a thing to wreck the miner's day.
i think people need to also understand the subtle difference of "i will gain from this gank, no matter what. his wreckage is worth more than my ship" rather than "i will gain from this gank, that moron thinks carrying plex in a shuttle is a good idea".
the key difference is the fact that it's only a profitable venture to gank the shuttle because it has a plex, not because it's a shuttle. I will gain from this Gank only if he doesn't bother to fit a tank. I will break even from this gank maybe in a .5 system with a special snowflake fleet of 10 guys. I will lose isk in any other situation. Mine in a 0.7-1.0 system with 2MLUs and a midslot/rig only tank and guess what, anyone who ganks you will lose money. The only reason it's a usually profitable thing is that Hulks don't bother to fit tanks.
and then it's you mine or you tank and the argument goes around in cicrles for 50 pages and.... lets not go there.
i think hulks should have a certain level of anti-gank as standard (enough to with stand a t1 destroyer) and if you want to be gank resistant to bigger things, then you should be giving things up. many will disagree with me but i don't care i'm not preapred to get in to a 50 page circle chase about it.
the advantage combat ships have over mining ships in terms of fitting tank is ships have 3 things; tank, damage, and utility. three things to go in to 2 slots (mids and lows) damage goes in the lows, utility goes in the middle, and your tank goes in either, so you drop 1 for the tank. mining, on the other hand doesn't quite have that option. once you fit "damage" in the lows you *can't* fit tank in the mid, fitting requirements are too tight. you have to have one or the other where as combat ships get to go with "two of the three".
yeah, an apples and oranges comparison but the difference is actually why the comparison works.... i think.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:32:00 -
[1386] - Quote
Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:Mimimimimi......check out on Sisi rigth now, seems CCP has listened to your whinning thread Herr Wilkus......they lowred the stats from the Miningships down again to something more fitting your needs beeing able to easy gank them.
So again the loudest vocal whiner voices from the PvP fraction have won again......Shame on you CCP.
What are the new base stats on them? Cant get on SiSi for a while. |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:33:00 -
[1387] - Quote
Quote:i'm hoping he means it's broken for the fact that in high sec you're able to ruin some one's day; but it should cost you something. as it stands when a catalyst ganks a hulk they can recover the cost of such a cheap ship from the hulk's wreckage and the ganker hasn't paid a thing to wreck the miner's day.
i think people need to also understand the subtle difference of "i will gain from this gank, no matter what. his wreckage is worth more than my ship" rather than "i will gain from this gank, that moron thinks carrying plex in a shuttle is a good idea".
the key difference is the fact that it's only a profitable venture to gank the shuttle because it has a plex, not because it's a shuttle.
In which case it would have been broken for multiple years after multiple changes to the system.
|
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
448
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:34:00 -
[1388] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:i'm hoping he means it's broken for the fact that in high sec you're able to ruin some one's day; but it should cost you something. as it stands when a catalyst ganks a hulk they can recover the cost of such a cheap ship from the hulk's wreckage and the ganker hasn't paid a thing to wreck the miner's day.
i think people need to also understand the subtle difference of "i will gain from this gank, no matter what. his wreckage is worth more than my ship" rather than "i will gain from this gank, that moron thinks carrying plex in a shuttle is a good idea".
the key difference is the fact that it's only a profitable venture to gank the shuttle because it has a plex, not because it's a shuttle. I will gain from this Gank only if he doesn't bother to fit a tank. I will break even from this gank maybe in a .5 system with a special snowflake fleet of 10 guys. I will lose isk in any other situation. Mine in a 0.7-1.0 system with 2MLUs and a midslot/rig only tank and guess what, anyone who ganks you will lose money. The only reason it's a usually profitable thing is that Hulks don't bother to fit tanks.
See, no, you missed the DEV announcement - they are redefining 'profitable' - just for the ganking profession!
For anyone else on the planet, 'profitable' is defined as 'ending up with more ISK than when you started'.
But for gankers, apparently, 'profitable' is now 'losing less than your victim'. And everything must be rebalanced along that principle.
Because we can buy new ships with tears, right?
|
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
290
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:34:00 -
[1389] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Andre Jean Sarpantis wrote:Mimimimimi......check out on Sisi rigth now, seems CCP has listened to your whinning thread Herr Wilkus......they lowred the stats from the Miningships down again to something more fitting your needs beeing able to easy gank them.
So again the loudest vocal whiner voices from the PvP fraction have won again......Shame on you CCP.
What are the new base stats on them? Cant get on SiSi for a while.
armour, shield and hull hp has changed (don't have hard numbers on that)
and mining barge bonus seems to have gone from 7.5%/level to 5%/level (ship stats shows 7.5 as the bonus, but fitting window is only giving 5%)
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:39:00 -
[1390] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:
armour, shield and hull hp has changed (don't have hard numbers on that)
and mining barge bonus seems to have gone from 7.5%/level to 5%/level (ship stats shows 7.5 as the bonus, but fitting window is only giving 5%)
Now thats interesting, wasn't expecting a resist bonus change. Gonna need to get those hp numbers though to figure out what this means. |
Ditra Vorthran
State War Academy
Caldari State
93
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:40:00 -
[1391] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Does anyone else feel like Soundwave admitting that ganking isn't working right a bit ridiculous.
Like Faction Warfare? Like Bounties?
Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's working as intended, even after a loooooong time.
"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
220
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:44:00 -
[1392] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:See, no, you missed the DEV announcement - they are redefining 'profitable' - just for the ganking profession!
For anyone else on the planet, 'profitable' is defined as 'ending up with more ISK than when you started'.
But for gankers, apparently, 'profitable' is now 'losing less than your victim'. And everything must be rebalanced along that principle.
Because we can buy new ships with tears, right?
You can buy more ships just like everybody else; by putting effort into it. You think your brand of "PVP" should pay for itself and then some. You're wrong. |
Andre Jean Sarpantis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:44:00 -
[1393] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dave stark wrote:
armour, shield and hull hp has changed (don't have hard numbers on that)
and mining barge bonus seems to have gone from 7.5%/level to 5%/level (ship stats shows 7.5 as the bonus, but fitting window is only giving 5%)
Now thats interesting, wasn't expecting a resist bonus change. Gonna need to get those hp numbers though to figure out what this means.
It significantly decreases the EHP from all Exhumers again to a somewhat closer EHP amount like on liveserver.....approc 4- 6k EHP less then in the early changes shown on Sisi. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
290
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:47:00 -
[1394] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dave stark wrote:
armour, shield and hull hp has changed (don't have hard numbers on that)
and mining barge bonus seems to have gone from 7.5%/level to 5%/level (ship stats shows 7.5 as the bonus, but fitting window is only giving 5%)
Now thats interesting, wasn't expecting a resist bonus change. Gonna need to get those hp numbers though to figure out what this means.
test server values for the hulk
shield: 2530
armour: 2160
hull: 2300
live
shield: 1519
armour: 1013
hull: 2531
(don't forget to add skills like mechanic etc to those when working out your ehps etc)
sorry i don't have yesterdays sisi stats to compare with.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:49:00 -
[1395] - Quote
Ditra Vorthran wrote:Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:
Does anyone else feel like Soundwave admitting that ganking isn't working right a bit ridiculous.
Like Faction Warfare? Like Bounties? Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's working as intended, even after a loooooong time.
Right. That's terrible and drives consumers away. That's my point. A stiff learning curve with Darwinism is acceptable. When you couple that with the apparent problem at hand, and its detrimental to the game.
|
Pipa Porto
536
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:55:00 -
[1396] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:Herr Wilkus wrote:See, no, you missed the DEV announcement - they are redefining 'profitable' - just for the ganking profession!
For anyone else on the planet, 'profitable' is defined as 'ending up with more ISK than when you started'.
But for gankers, apparently, 'profitable' is now 'losing less than your victim'. And everything must be rebalanced along that principle.
Because we can buy new ships with tears, right?
You can buy more ships just like everybody else; by putting effort into it. You think your brand of "PVP" should pay for itself and then some. You're wrong.
The only reason it can be profitable is that Miners refuse to tank their ships.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:55:00 -
[1397] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:
test server values for the hulk
shield: 2530
armour: 2160
hull: 2300
live
shield: 1519
armour: 1013
hull: 2531
(don't forget to add skills like mechanic etc to those when working out your ehps etc)
sorry i don't have yesterdays sisi stats to compare with.
This might be profitable to gank, I'll need to test this. I assume the CPU and Powergrid havent been changed? |
Mallak Azaria
400
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:56:00 -
[1398] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:and then it's you mine or you tank
I find it unsurprising that you're unaware that you can actually mine AND tank just fine the ways things are now.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1722
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:57:00 -
[1399] - Quote
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
I won't reach 1 isk, but certainly 3 isk.
Ah, I thought I read 1 ISK PU in the quoted text. Has to be bad sight of mine. Am I forced to agree with the bad predictions of a random dude on the EVE-o forums?
Feel free to link *1* post with a bad prediction.
Mallak Azaria wrote:Quote:
He will unfortunately suffer the most in the end though. He has put in effort to survive & will be one of the few that don't deserve the inevitable hit to their wallets when veld goes back to 1 isk PU.
Inevitable =/= 6 months. Nice try.
Bolded the part your blinds seem to hide.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
220
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:57:00 -
[1400] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:The only reason it can be profitable is that Miners refuse to tank their ships.
Not true. Proven many times over. 10 Catalysts can gank a Hulk and still make a profit, but gankers are doing it with far fewer. But even if it was true, too bad. That's their choice. Profitability in ganking is your delusion. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
262
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:58:00 -
[1401] - Quote
Mining barge stats appear to be altered again on SISI. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
290
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:59:00 -
[1402] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dave stark wrote:
test server values for the hulk
shield: 2530
armour: 2160
hull: 2300
live
shield: 1519
armour: 1013
hull: 2531
(don't forget to add skills like mechanic etc to those when working out your ehps etc)
sorry i don't have yesterdays sisi stats to compare with.
This might be profitable to gank, I'll need to test this. I assume the CPU and Powergrid havent been changed?
sisi cpu/pg
300/35
live cpu/pg
300/35
so yeah, unchanged from live. also that's without skills again so add your electronics and engineering skills etc.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:00:00 -
[1403] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:The only reason it can be profitable is that Miners refuse to tank their ships. Not true. Proven many times over. 10 Catalysts can gank a Hulk and still make a profit, but gankers are doing it with far fewer. But even if it was true, too bad. That's their choice. Profitability in ganking is your delusion.
No they cant. |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
220
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:01:00 -
[1404] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Suqq Madiq wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:The only reason it can be profitable is that Miners refuse to tank their ships. Not true. Proven many times over. 10 Catalysts can gank a Hulk and still make a profit, but gankers are doing it with far fewer. But even if it was true, too bad. That's their choice. Profitability in ganking is your delusion. No they cant.
Yes, they can. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1722
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:01:00 -
[1405] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:
The only reason it's a usually profitable thing is that Hulks don't bother to fit tanks.
Well you gank ships for their cargo or their mods.
If the ship has 2M worth of cargo and T1 mods it's your fault for picking it instead of the one with a deadspace small shield booster.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
290
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:01:00 -
[1406] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Dave stark wrote:and then it's you mine or you tank I find it unsurprising that you're unaware that you can actually mine AND tank just fine the ways things are now.
and this is where we go around in circles but i'll answer it; the point is you HAVE to give up your mining bonuses to fit a tank on your mining ship. your combat ships don't have to give up their damage mods; they can give up the utility mods instead.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
448
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:03:00 -
[1407] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:Herr Wilkus wrote:See, no, you missed the DEV announcement - they are redefining 'profitable' - just for the ganking profession!
For anyone else on the planet, 'profitable' is defined as 'ending up with more ISK than when you started'.
But for gankers, apparently, 'profitable' is now 'losing less than your victim'. And everything must be rebalanced along that principle.
Because we can buy new ships with tears, right?
You can buy more ships just like everybody else; by putting effort into it. You think your brand of "PVP" should pay for itself and then some. You're wrong.
I'm perfectly content with 'losing less than the victim', to a point.
How much less (or even potential for actual profitability) should be as it is now: determined by the Exhumer's choice of fit.
CCP is largely taking those choices out of miner's hands - because they always take the risky choice, and cry when that risk goes badly for them.
A 'ganker must lose more than the victim' standard of balancing is utterly stupid.
Do people typically use 15 Tornados to pop random empty Freighters or Orcas? If not, why not?
"You have to put effort into it now."
Nonsense - people just aren't going to do it, and further more - you know it. The risk, therefore is removed, and miners are free to AFK.
Gankers will gank for a profit, and they'll gank for a laugh if they can inflict disproportionate damage on the target.
But requiring a group of 3 Tornados to grind up 300M ISK to simply attempt to kill a 180M ISK Mackinaw with a midslot tank?
Its just not going to happen unless someone has a personal score to settle.
(Heck, and even then - the victim can point and laugh at the gankers for wasting all that ISK....don't see much tear potential there...) |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:03:00 -
[1408] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Yes, they can.
We tested this, they cant. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1722
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:09:00 -
[1409] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Gankers will gank for a profit, and they'll gank for a laugh if they can inflict disproportionate damage on the target.
But requiring a group of 3 Tornados to grind up 300M ISK to simply attempt to kill a 180M ISK Mackinaw with a midslot tank?
Do you gank and empty freighter?
Do you gank a transport with 2M worth of contents?
Do you gank an empty indy because it fits an experimental cloak?
Do you gank the T1 fitted Drake or the meta 4 fitted CNR?
If the reply is: "yes I do it for a profit" then you are hopeless.
Now, why should you gank an empty or T1 fit exhumer and feel entitled you must "do it for a profit" again?
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
220
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:10:00 -
[1410] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Gankers will gank for a profit, and they'll gank for a laugh if they can inflict disproportionate damage on the target.
But requiring a group of 3 Tornados to grind up 300M ISK to simply attempt to kill a 180M ISK Mackinaw with a midslot tank?
You're exaggerating wildly. If 3 T1 Catalysts can gank a tanked Hulk now (which they easily can) it won't take 3 T3 Battlecruisers to do the same thing after this rebalance. Remove the ability to make profit from your ganking calculations. It doesn't belong. |
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