EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3

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NateX Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2005.08.23 13:45:00 - [91] Originally by: Liu Kaskakka Nerf moa. Yeah! the osprey and Bellicose way to Ubber killars!
Stuart85	Posted - 2005.08.23 14:04:00 - [92] Originally by: 656587 I agree, I lost a tempest to a thorax. What is the point of getting a battleship when a smaller ship can beat you. Atleast in other games a larger sword and shield will always beat the smaller sword and shield. I dont think this makes sense, they need to fix EvE. Large sword and shield should always beat a small sword and shield? No, those games are broken, they are the ones that need fixing. The day 'bigger ship' = 'win button', (or anything equals 'win button' for that matter) is the day the game is finished.
Stuart85	Posted - 2005.08.23 14:04:00 - [93] Originally by: 656587 I agree, I lost a tempest to a thorax. What is the point of getting a battleship when a smaller ship can beat you. Atleast in other games a larger sword and shield will always beat the smaller sword and shield. I dont think this makes sense, they need to fix EvE. Large sword and shield should always beat a small sword and shield? No, those games are broken, they are the ones that need fixing. The day 'bigger ship' = 'win button', (or anything equals 'win button' for that matter) is the day the game is finished.
W0lverine	Posted - 2005.08.23 14:27:00 - [94] Originally by: 656587 I agree, I lost a tempest to a thorax. What is the point of getting a battleship when a smaller ship can beat you. Atleast in other games a larger sword and shield will always beat the smaller sword and shield. I dont think this makes sense, they need to fix EvE. thats a bad argument tbh
W0lverine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.23 14:27:00 - [95] Originally by: 656587 I agree, I lost a tempest to a thorax. What is the point of getting a battleship when a smaller ship can beat you. Atleast in other games a larger sword and shield will always beat the smaller sword and shield. I dont think this makes sense, they need to fix EvE. thats a bad argument tbh
BlackDog Rackh'am	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:01:00 - [96] I don' want the thorax to get nerfed,i want it to get balanced,along with the rest of the tech1 cruisers. Imo,HAC's are much more balanced to eachother (caldari are a bit off,but the rest are ok).Maybe we could "reverse engineer" the tech1 cruisers from HAC's and be done with it. As it is,all cruisers can't effectively tank without oversized 1600mm plates.That means lowering your damage output by using frigate-sized weapons,due to fitting constraints.I remember training engineering and electronics to lvl5 when i was 2 months in the game so i could finally fit a rupture decently.The only cruiser that can offset the reduced damaged output of frig guns is the thorax due to it's huge drone bay. I agree with the rest of the people who propose downgrading the thorax dronebay and upgrading the grid/cpu on most of the cruisers,since they all have a hard time fitting.Since thorax is a gallente ship it's ok for it to have some more drones,but not 8 heavies.By comparison,if minnie cruisers get 5 mediums,i suppose it's ok for the thorax to field 3-4 MEDIUMS more,as long as the bay doesn't stretch to BS size. It's obvious that a thorax can actually go head to head with HAC's,just because of drones. I tested a vagabond with a corpmates thorax.Before anyone says "learn how to fight it",i know how to do it.However,the fact that i need a specific setup on a tech2 ship ranging from 40-80mil ISK to counter a tech1 ship with a cost of roughly 7-10mil is downright ridiculous. I used a normal group pvp setup on the vagabond,with no active tank.This is not a solo setup,or a max damage one,it's a group fitting and we simulated a random solo encounter with a tech1 cruiser.I had 5x220mm II's,rocket launcher for defenders,10MN AB II,sensor booster II,20k scrambler or web,L shield extender II,1xsmall armor rep (to use after the fights),2xgyro II,2xPDU II.The idea behind this setup is to do some decent damage,without the risk of flying such an expensive ship without any form of defense at all.The L extender II with the 2xPDU II gives 3.9k shields with decent resistances,which should be able to hold long enough for you to decimate a tech1 cruiser.All this sounds more or less reasonable,right? Well,the cap drain of the 220's on the vagabond is about 10% because of the high rof(1st time ever i saw my cap drain from firing guns on a projectile boat).The autocannons have a nice falloff,but you will optimally want to be near 8km of the target to maximize damage and have a decent chance of passing the 10km threshold of his webbing range if any of his buddies show up.However,If you close the range on the rax to slightly less than 10km,he opens up with web,multiple nos and drones,and the 1600mm plate gives him ample time to tank you until you have no cap(while his is full and he can run his armor rep for a long time),you can't AB/MWD away,can't fire guns etc,can't web him to outrun him.He isn't firing any guns,or if he is they are frig sized guns,so you shouldn't have a prob,right?Wrong,because the 8 heavies of doom will eventually go through your shield and you will die. When i'm in a vagabond,a thorax scares me more than a dominix.I can easily outrun the domi if i get in trouble,even if his heavy nos will drain my cap faster.It's a BS and i can orbit further away and still get decent hits due to it's larger sig,so i won't get webbed.Hell,a vag can even kill a deimos if flown the right way,but has trouble with a thorax?It may be a specific setup for a thorax,but it's one of the most common one out there and is not considered unusual.That's not balance.It's a slap in the face for those who take the time to train and the risk to fly in combat a domi or a deimos instead of a thorax.
BlackDog Rackh'am Minmatar Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:01:00 - [97] I don' want the thorax to get nerfed,i want it to get balanced,along with the rest of the tech1 cruisers. Imo,HAC's are much more balanced to eachother (caldari are a bit off,but the rest are ok).Maybe we could "reverse engineer" the tech1 cruisers from HAC's and be done with it. As it is,all cruisers can't effectively tank without oversized 1600mm plates.That means lowering your damage output by using frigate-sized weapons,due to fitting constraints.I remember training engineering and electronics to lvl5 when i was 2 months in the game so i could finally fit a rupture decently.The only cruiser that can offset the reduced damaged output of frig guns is the thorax due to it's huge drone bay. I agree with the rest of the people who propose downgrading the thorax dronebay and upgrading the grid/cpu on most of the cruisers,since they all have a hard time fitting.Since thorax is a gallente ship it's ok for it to have some more drones,but not 8 heavies.By comparison,if minnie cruisers get 5 mediums,i suppose it's ok for the thorax to field 3-4 MEDIUMS more,as long as the bay doesn't stretch to BS size. It's obvious that a thorax can actually go head to head with HAC's,just because of drones. I tested a vagabond with a corpmates thorax.Before anyone says "learn how to fight it",i know how to do it.However,the fact that i need a specific setup on a tech2 ship ranging from 40-80mil ISK to counter a tech1 ship with a cost of roughly 7-10mil is downright ridiculous. I used a normal group pvp setup on the vagabond,with no active tank.This is not a solo setup,or a max damage one,it's a group fitting and we simulated a random solo encounter with a tech1 cruiser.I had 5x220mm II's,rocket launcher for defenders,10MN AB II,sensor booster II,20k scrambler or web,L shield extender II,1xsmall armor rep (to use after the fights),2xgyro II,2xPDU II.The idea behind this setup is to do some decent damage,without the risk of flying such an expensive ship without any form of defense at all.The L extender II with the 2xPDU II gives 3.9k shields with decent resistances,which should be able to hold long enough for you to decimate a tech1 cruiser.All this sounds more or less reasonable,right? Well,the cap drain of the 220's on the vagabond is about 10% because of the high rof(1st time ever i saw my cap drain from firing guns on a projectile boat).The autocannons have a nice falloff,but you will optimally want to be near 8km of the target to maximize damage and have a decent chance of passing the 10km threshold of his webbing range if any of his buddies show up.However,If you close the range on the rax to slightly less than 10km,he opens up with web,multiple nos and drones,and the 1600mm plate gives him ample time to tank you until you have no cap(while his is full and he can run his armor rep for a long time),you can't AB/MWD away,can't fire guns etc,can't web him to outrun him.He isn't firing any guns,or if he is they are frig sized guns,so you shouldn't have a prob,right?Wrong,because the 8 heavies of doom will eventually go through your shield and you will die. When i'm in a vagabond,a thorax scares me more than a dominix.I can easily outrun the domi if i get in trouble,even if his heavy nos will drain my cap faster.It's a BS and i can orbit further away and still get decent hits due to it's larger sig,so i won't get webbed.Hell,a vag can even kill a deimos if flown the right way,but has trouble with a thorax?It may be a specific setup for a thorax,but it's one of the most common one out there and is not considered unusual.That's not balance.It's a slap in the face for those who take the time to train and the risk to fly in combat a domi or a deimos instead of a thorax.
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:08:00 - [98] For all the thorax whiners, maybe EvE should only have 5 ship class. Small,medium,large,uber,superuber And only one type of weapon,shield,ammo. A Raven could wipe out a tanked thorax in no time, A maller can kill a thorax fine and it is a cruiser class ship. A thorax is a combat support ship, it is a T2 Frig killer providing support for BS in combat, It is not a uberkill everything ship. A skilled pilot can kill a thorax. The problem is unskilled pilots are probably getting wiped by skilled thorax pilots and are deciding to nerf it down. A thorax has to MWD down to its target real close, by then it is sucking cap and has the radius of a planet, Heavy drones are not that fast either so you have to get within 800-2000meters. It is taking damage on its way. A smart pilot would target the drones first then the ship. For those asking for a nerf, were you killed by a rax? what ship were you flying, fittings and your skill sheet please.
HUGO DRAX DRAX INDUSTRIES	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:08:00 - [99] For all the thorax whiners, maybe EvE should only have 5 ship class. Small,medium,large,uber,superuber And only one type of weapon,shield,ammo. A Raven could wipe out a tanked thorax in no time, A maller can kill a thorax fine and it is a cruiser class ship. A thorax is a combat support ship, it is a T2 Frig killer providing support for BS in combat, It is not a uberkill everything ship. A skilled pilot can kill a thorax. The problem is unskilled pilots are probably getting wiped by skilled thorax pilots and are deciding to nerf it down. A thorax has to MWD down to its target real close, by then it is sucking cap and has the radius of a planet, Heavy drones are not that fast either so you have to get within 800-2000meters. It is taking damage on its way. A smart pilot would target the drones first then the ship. For those asking for a nerf, were you killed by a rax? what ship were you flying, fittings and your skill sheet please. Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel
Layrex	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:11:00 - [100] Edited by: Layrex on 23/08/2005 15:11:34 If I come up agianst a Thorax I just Nos him while blowing up his drones. Renders him pathetic. Problem is that's a specific setup. ------------------------------

Layrex Caldari	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:11:00 - [101] Edited by: Layrex on 23/08/2005 15:11:34 If I come up agianst a Thorax I just Nos him while blowing up his drones. Renders him pathetic. Problem is that's a specific setup.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:38:00 - [102] Originally by: Beyta Darrel He is caldari. Does he ask for a caracal nerf? whats the point? - they only just did that one
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:38:00 - [103] Originally by: Beyta Darrel He is caldari. Does he ask for a caracal nerf? whats the point? - they only just did that one
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:47:00 - [104] Originally by: Layrex Edited by: Layrex on 23/08/2005 15:11:34 If I come up agianst a Thorax I just Nos him while blowing up his drones. Renders him pathetic. Problem is that's a specific setup. Thats what I like about EvE if PvP was paper,rock,sizzors I would go elsewhere. EvE requires some intelligence,planning before engaging into battle. Its more of a chess game.
HUGO DRAX DRAX INDUSTRIES	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:47:00 - [105] Originally by: Layrex Edited by: Layrex on 23/08/2005 15:11:34 If I come up agianst a Thorax I just Nos him while blowing up his drones. Renders him pathetic. Problem is that's a specific setup. Thats what I like about EvE if PvP was paper,rock,sizzors I would go elsewhere. EvE requires some intelligence,planning before engaging into battle. Its more of a chess game. Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:57:00 - [106] Originally by: HUGO DRAX A Raven could wipe out a tanked thorax in no time what with? a raven has less drones than a rax, its missiles do (almost) nothing (unless it fits heavies, thus borking its anti-BS setup), nosferatus don't have much affect on a rax - so what is a raven supposed to do - unless that raven is in an antirax setup (with smarties, and probably heavy missiles), the rax wins. now, imagine that raven is fighting a maller - nossy the thing till its caps are dead, then use heavy drones to kill the thing - u can fire cruise missiles as well - they will add A BIT of DPS - not enough to "wipe a tanked thorax in no time) without fitting a specific anti-rax setup, a raven won't win however, with a fairly general setup, (with nossies) it can kill EVERY other t1 cruiser - sound fair to you?
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:57:00 - [107] Originally by: HUGO DRAX A Raven could wipe out a tanked thorax in no time what with? a raven has less drones than a rax, its missiles do (almost) nothing (unless it fits heavies, thus borking its anti-BS setup), nosferatus don't have much affect on a rax - so what is a raven supposed to do - unless that raven is in an antirax setup (with smarties, and probably heavy missiles), the rax wins. now, imagine that raven is fighting a maller - nossy the thing till its caps are dead, then use heavy drones to kill the thing - u can fire cruise missiles as well - they will add A BIT of DPS - not enough to "wipe a tanked thorax in no time) without fitting a specific anti-rax setup, a raven won't win however, with a fairly general setup, (with nossies) it can kill EVERY other t1 cruiser - sound fair to you?
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:58:00 - [108] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 23/08/2005 16:01:51 Originally by: HUGO DRAX EvE requires some intelligence,planning before engaging into battle. Its more of a chess game. That is exactly what is wrong with the thorax, my standard thorax setup is versatile enough not to have to put intelligence or planning. I cannot do that with another cruiser. BS armor + BS weapon + frig defense in a disposable cruiser 4tw, no other cruiser can do that. It is the firepower and the versatility on the battlefield (non-specific setup) that makes this ship so overpowered. It is better than half of the HAC in firepower, versatility on the battlefield, survivability. That is wrong. Prove me wrong instead of throwing your textbook anti-nerf stuffs. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Edit: Oh, yeah, as for the psycho-crap "you got beat by a thorax because you suck" i have another one for you, "you don't want your ship to be put on par with the other ships of the same class because you don't want people to see how crap you are when fighting with balanced ships."
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.23 15:58:00 - [109] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 23/08/2005 16:01:51 Originally by: HUGO DRAX EvE requires some intelligence,planning before engaging into battle. Its more of a chess game. That is exactly what is wrong with the thorax, my standard thorax setup is versatile enough not to have to put intelligence or planning. I cannot do that with another cruiser. BS armor + BS weapon + frig defense in a disposable cruiser 4tw, no other cruiser can do that. It is the firepower and the versatility on the battlefield (non-specific setup) that makes this ship so overpowered. It is better than half of the HAC in firepower, versatility on the battlefield, survivability. That is wrong. Prove me wrong instead of throwing your textbook anti-nerf stuffs. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Edit: Oh, yeah, as for the psycho-crap "you got beat by a thorax because you suck" i have another one for you, "you don't want your ship to be put on par with the other ships of the same class because you don't want people to see how crap you are when fighting with balanced ships." In Rust We Trust
Steppa	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:06:00 - [110] Edited by: Steppa on 23/08/2005 16:06:26 Originally by: Theta9 WTF how many thorax nerf threads are we going to get THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE SHIP MAYBE YOU ALL SHOULD LEARN HOW TO FIGHT IT!!! I fly thoraxes and i must say that most people i fight against with it are stupid like uber uber stupid. DONT FIGHT THE THORAX FIGHT ITS FREKIN DRONES. thorax is laughable without drones so dont give me this "its so uber we cant beat it!" In a duramaller i can beat a thorax easy because I always always always destroy drones first. Lets compare cruisers now Rupture 6HI 3MED 5 LOW this is close to a thorax however 6HI instead of 5 and has options for launchers thorax doesnt. its also considerably faster and has more base powergrid though less cpu. Maller 6HI 3MED 6LOW this has 2 more slots than a thorax though this is offset by no drone bay. it has considerably more armor than a thorax and 150 more base powergrid and the same cpu as the thorax. though it only has 5 turrets like the thorax but 0 ammo consumption good cap lots of armor high pg for guns and tank MOA 6HI 4MED 4LOW again has options for missles and has a drone bay if only slight 50 more base PG AND CPU though is a rail platform more than blaster. THORAX 5HI 3MED 5LOW 5turrets the ONLY thing special about this ship is its mwd bonus and its 200M3 drone bay. you wana drop its drone bay to 100m3? fine then give me an extra med and low slot then ill be just fine about it but ill also need another 100pg drones are DESTROYABLE wich means that if you blow one up you decrease the dps of the ship no other ship has that weakness and without drones it is again a laughable ship at least. I do agree that 1600mm plates are overpowered on cruiser ships but DO NOT TOUCH THE FREKIN THORAX!! you will find that if you make putting 1600mm plates on cruisers nearly imposible or so penalized it becomes impractical that the thorax will become more in line with other cruisers. the thorax has ALWAYS had this drone bay it is its signiture and if its been in the game for so long who are we to say take it away now. my proposition is to instead of plates giving a velocity penalty they instead give a mass penalty to plates such as 1600mm plate 10,000,000 mass (depending on type some heavier some lighter) 800MM plate 4,000,000 mass (again depending on type) 400mm plate 2,000,000 mass (same as above) 200MM plate 750,000 mass 100mm plate 250,000 mass 50mm plate 50,000 mass this makes fitting a 1600mm plate on a rax almost double its total mass screwing its agility badly as well as its speed boost from a MWD this probably wont stop thoraxes from puting them on but now you should be able to outrun a rax with just an AB. if you dont fit the 1600mm plate yourself. While a 800mm plate is feasable but still incurse penalties My GOD...do they even TEACH punctuation anymore?

Steppa Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:06:00 - [111] Edited by: Steppa on 23/08/2005 16:06:26 Originally by: Theta9 WTF how many thorax nerf threads are we going to get THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE SHIP MAYBE YOU ALL SHOULD LEARN HOW TO FIGHT IT!!! I fly thoraxes and i must say that most people i fight against with it are stupid like uber uber stupid. DONT FIGHT THE THORAX FIGHT ITS FREKIN DRONES. thorax is laughable without drones so dont give me this "its so uber we cant beat it!" In a duramaller i can beat a thorax easy because I always always always destroy drones first. Lets compare cruisers now Rupture 6HI 3MED 5 LOW this is close to a thorax however 6HI instead of 5 and has options for launchers thorax doesnt. its also considerably faster and has more base powergrid though less cpu. Maller 6HI 3MED 6LOW this has 2 more slots than a thorax though this is offset by no drone bay. it has considerably more armor than a thorax and 150 more base powergrid and the same cpu as the thorax. though it only has 5 turrets like the thorax but 0 ammo consumption good cap lots of armor high pg for guns and tank MOA 6HI 4MED 4LOW again has options for missles and has a drone bay if only slight 50 more base PG AND CPU though is a rail platform more than blaster. THORAX 5HI 3MED 5LOW 5turrets the ONLY thing special about this ship is its mwd bonus and its 200M3 drone bay. you wana drop its drone bay to 100m3? fine then give me an extra med and low slot then ill be just fine about it but ill also need another 100pg drones are DESTROYABLE wich means that if you blow one up you decrease the dps of the ship no other ship has that weakness and without drones it is again a laughable ship at least. I do agree that 1600mm plates are overpowered on cruiser ships but DO NOT TOUCH THE FREKIN THORAX!! you will find that if you make putting 1600mm plates on cruisers nearly imposible or so penalized it becomes impractical that the thorax will become more in line with other cruisers. the thorax has ALWAYS had this drone bay it is its signiture and if its been in the game for so long who are we to say take it away now. my proposition is to instead of plates giving a velocity penalty they instead give a mass penalty to plates such as 1600mm plate 10,000,000 mass (depending on type some heavier some lighter) 800MM plate 4,000,000 mass (again depending on type) 400mm plate 2,000,000 mass (same as above) 200MM plate 750,000 mass 100mm plate 250,000 mass 50mm plate 50,000 mass this makes fitting a 1600mm plate on a rax almost double its total mass screwing its agility badly as well as its speed boost from a MWD this probably wont stop thoraxes from puting them on but now you should be able to outrun a rax with just an AB. if you dont fit the 1600mm plate yourself. While a 800mm plate is feasable but still incurse penalties My GOD...do they even TEACH punctuation anymore?
singultus	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:34:00 - [112] It seems to me they should increase the power of other cruisers, rather than nerfing everything (the 'rax in this case...), as discussed before. You can't blame CCP for not nerfing it anyway, it brings diversity to the game (in that we are discussing it at this very point in time!). Surely it's more fun to design a setup to counter the 'rax, or ask for an improvement in other cruisers? Just giving up and whining about it seems such a rubbish way to deal with "imbalances" in the game. I'd like to see Cruisers brought up to the same level, making them much more viable ships, rather than floating blobs with the size (easier to lock, hit, etc.), but none of the firepower.
singultus Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:34:00 - [113] It seems to me they should increase the power of other cruisers, rather than nerfing everything (the 'rax in this case...), as discussed before. You can't blame CCP for not nerfing it anyway, it brings diversity to the game (in that we are discussing it at this very point in time!). Surely it's more fun to design a setup to counter the 'rax, or ask for an improvement in other cruisers? Just giving up and whining about it seems such a rubbish way to deal with "imbalances" in the game. I'd like to see Cruisers brought up to the same level, making them much more viable ships, rather than floating blobs with the size (easier to lock, hit, etc.), but none of the firepower.
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:36:00 - [114] Lets see, Heavy NOS = dead rax Cruise Missles = dead rax ECM = dead rax stay 20KM away from one. etc.. Think.
HUGO DRAX DRAX INDUSTRIES	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:36:00 - [115] Lets see, Heavy NOS = dead rax Cruise Missles = dead rax ECM = dead rax stay 20KM away from one. etc.. Think. Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel
Kye Kenshin	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:53:00 - [116] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: HUGO DRAX A Raven could wipe out a tanked thorax in no time what with? a raven has less drones than a rax, its missiles do (almost) nothing (unless it fits heavies, thus borking its anti-BS setup), nosferatus don't have much affect on a rax - so what is a raven supposed to do - unless that raven is in an antirax setup (with smarties, and probably heavy missiles), the rax wins. now, imagine that raven is fighting a maller - nossy the thing till its caps are dead, then use heavy drones to kill the thing - u can fire cruise missiles as well - they will add A BIT of DPS - not enough to "wipe a tanked thorax in no time) without fitting a specific anti-rax setup, a raven won't win however, with a fairly general setup, (with nossies) it can kill EVERY other t1 cruiser - sound fair to you? Now come on i think we have to seperate fact from the myth here. Are you seriously saying there's fleets of raven killing rax's running about! If it does happen there bloody good pilots
Kye Kenshin Sanctum's Edge	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:53:00 - [117] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: HUGO DRAX A Raven could wipe out a tanked thorax in no time what with? a raven has less drones than a rax, its missiles do (almost) nothing (unless it fits heavies, thus borking its anti-BS setup), nosferatus don't have much affect on a rax - so what is a raven supposed to do - unless that raven is in an antirax setup (with smarties, and probably heavy missiles), the rax wins. now, imagine that raven is fighting a maller - nossy the thing till its caps are dead, then use heavy drones to kill the thing - u can fire cruise missiles as well - they will add A BIT of DPS - not enough to "wipe a tanked thorax in no time) without fitting a specific anti-rax setup, a raven won't win however, with a fairly general setup, (with nossies) it can kill EVERY other t1 cruiser - sound fair to you? Now come on i think we have to seperate fact from the myth here. Are you seriously saying there's fleets of raven killing rax's running about! If it does happen there bloody good pilots
Zenst	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:56:00 - [118] Originally by: W0lverine as current size doesnt make sence and makes it way 2 powerfull thx unsigned cry.
Zenst Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:56:00 - [119] Originally by: W0lverine as current size doesnt make sence and makes it way 2 powerfull thx unsigned cry.
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.23 17:08:00 - [120] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK It's been said numerous times before. Swap the Brutix drone bay (100 m3) with the Thorax drone bay (200 m3) and you kill two birds with one stone. If the Thorax users want to whine about it, toss them either a dozen or so more m/s to their speed or a bit more powergrid. And this is the deal right here. The Vexor is a tier II cruiser, and it isn't the proper comparison. Seriously though, swap the drone bays on the Brutix and Thorax if anything.



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