EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3

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ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2005.08.24 03:35:00 - [271] Theres a difference between ships that have been obviously designed and set up to kill another ship and ones who are IN GENERAL more powerful than the rest. So quit with your circular reasoning. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Sadist	Posted - 2005.08.24 03:38:00 - [272] Quote: Brutix is the best BC already Omfg, you're the first sane person, who actually realized that brutix doesnt suck. Grats. Wait, whats the topic about? Ah, who gives, nerf it to hell. --------------- Originally by: Dark Shikari "One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2005.08.24 03:38:00 - [273] Quote: Brutix is the best BC already Omfg, you're the first sane person, who actually realized that brutix doesnt suck. Grats. Wait, whats the topic about? Ah, who gives, nerf it to hell. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.08.24 03:40:00 - [274] Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am This couldn't have come at a better time.A member of my alliance just attacked an apoc,a caracal and a raven in his thorax.He killed the caracal and the apoc before the raven popped him.I agree that some personal skill and luck is always involed,but please do that in any other tier3 cruiser,or better yet a HAC and i will agree it's balanced.Otherwise i want a 120m3 drone bay on the minnie cruisers and HAC's as well. Apoc Kill Caracal Kill Thorax Kill - Please take note of the fittings Read these again. Look at the times. This is clearly why the Rax dronebay + New 1600mm plate = teh overpwning wtfbbq THE SOLUTIONÖ Reduce Thorax Dronebay to Deimos Size add 3300 armor to non-caldari cruisers Add equivalent shield to Caldari Cruisers Add Mass to Plating equivalent to sizing Look ma I fixed all the problems at once! Cruisers viable! Thorax balanced! Plated ceptor stupidity fixed! World poverty abolished! Well....it fixes most of the problems. Quote the The SolutionÖ and sign to show your support! Nyxus PS- if anyone can post links to your rax getting pwned to show it's not uber I dare you to link them like Blackdog to prove it.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2005.08.24 03:40:00 - [275] Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am This couldn't have come at a better time.A member of my alliance just attacked an apoc,a caracal and a raven in his thorax.He killed the caracal and the apoc before the raven popped him.I agree that some personal skill and luck is always involed,but please do that in any other tier3 cruiser,or better yet a HAC and i will agree it's balanced.Otherwise i want a 120m3 drone bay on the minnie cruisers and HAC's as well. Apoc Kill Caracal Kill Thorax Kill - Please take note of the fittings Read these again. Look at the times. This is clearly why the Rax dronebay + New 1600mm plate = teh overpwning wtfbbq THE SOLUTIONÖ Reduce Thorax Dronebay to Deimos Size add 3300 armor to non-caldari cruisers Add equivalent shield to Caldari Cruisers Add Mass to Plating equivalent to sizing Look ma I fixed all the problems at once! Cruisers viable! Thorax balanced! Plated ceptor stupidity fixed! World poverty abolished! Well....it fixes most of the problems. Quote the The SolutionÖ and sign to show your support! Nyxus PS- if anyone can post links to your rax getting pwned to show it's not uber I dare you to link them like Blackdog to prove it. Originally by: Sarmaul Probing times are (still) too long. It needed to be made easier to probe people, not like playing hide and seek in a 6x6 room with no furniture.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.08.24 03:47:00 - [276] "THE SOLUTIONÖ add 3300 armor to non-caldari cruisers Add equivalent shield to Caldari Cruisers " o.o;; uhmm, make that 2-2.5k for (battle)cruisers and something like 1k for frigates, maybe? I mean, i don't really mind a Moa with more shield than a Scorpion... but the tier I battleship pilots would probably mind it -,o;
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.24 03:47:00 - [277] Edited by: j0sephine on 24/08/2005 03:47:04 "THE SOLUTIONÖ add 3300 armor to non-caldari cruisers Add equivalent shield to Caldari Cruisers o.o;; uhmm, make that 2-2.5k for (battle)cruisers and something like 1k for frigates, maybe? I mean, i don't really mind a Moa with more shield than a Scorpion... but the tier I battleship pilots would probably mind it -,o;
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.08.24 04:02:00 - [278] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 24/08/2005 03:47:04 "THE SOLUTIONÖ add 3300 armor to non-caldari cruisers Add equivalent shield to Caldari Cruisers o.o;; uhmm, make that 2-2.5k for (battle)cruisers and something like 1k for frigates, maybe? I mean, i don't really mind a Moa with more shield than a Scorpion... but the tier I battleship pilots would probably mind it -,o; Well I used 3300 becuase that is the frighteningly large numbers that cruisers get from a T2 1600mm plate. It seems to be the consensus requirement for them to be viable in PvP anymore. Anyhoo, I could be convinced to give them the equivalent to an 800mm plate, but I learned a long time ago that if you ask high, you can back down a bit and still be happy. Nyxus
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2005.08.24 04:02:00 - [279] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 24/08/2005 03:47:04 "THE SOLUTIONÖ add 3300 armor to non-caldari cruisers Add equivalent shield to Caldari Cruisers o.o;; uhmm, make that 2-2.5k for (battle)cruisers and something like 1k for frigates, maybe? I mean, i don't really mind a Moa with more shield than a Scorpion... but the tier I battleship pilots would probably mind it -,o; Well I used 3300 becuase that is the frighteningly large numbers that cruisers get from a T2 1600mm plate. It seems to be the consensus requirement for them to be viable in PvP anymore. Anyhoo, I could be convinced to give them the equivalent to an 800mm plate, but I learned a long time ago that if you ask high, you can back down a bit and still be happy. Nyxus Originally by: Sarmaul Probing times are (still) too long. It needed to be made easier to probe people, not like playing hide and seek in a 6x6 room with no furniture.
Franky B	Posted - 2005.08.24 04:10:00 - [280] Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am This couldn't have come at a better time.A member of my alliance just attacked an apoc,a caracal and a raven in his thorax.He killed the caracal and the apoc before the raven popped him.I agree that some personal skill and luck is always involed,but please do that in any other tier3 cruiser,or better yet a HAC and i will agree it's balanced.Otherwise i want a 120m3 drone bay on the minnie cruisers and HAC's as well. Apoc Kill Caracal Kill Thorax Kill - Please take note of the fittings Read these again. Look at the times. This is clearly why the Rax dronebay + New 1600mm plate = teh overpwning wtfbbq THE SOLUTIONÖ Reduce Thorax Dronebay to Deimos Size add 3300 armor to non-caldari cruisers Add equivalent shield to Caldari Cruisers Add Mass to Plating equivalent to sizing Look ma I fixed all the problems at once! Cruisers viable! Thorax balanced! Plated ceptor stupidity fixed! World poverty abolished! Well....it fixes most of the problems. Quote the The SolutionÖ and sign to show your support! Nyxus PS- if anyone can post links to your rax getting pwned to show it's not uber I dare you to link them like Blackdog to prove it. I dont wanna be the ******* that reigns on ugg's parade(still a great kill). but i think that the rax would have been flattended if that apoc pilot had even the SLIGHTEST idea how to fit an amarr ship. this says it all: Fitted - Medium slot Large Shield Booster I 1 Sensor Booster I 1 Barton Reactor Capacitor Recharger I 1 LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets 1 Fitted - Low slot Power Diagnostic System I 2 Warp Core Stabilizer I 1 Co-Processor I

Franky B Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2005.08.24 04:10:00 - [281] Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am This couldn't have come at a better time.A member of my alliance just attacked an apoc,a caracal and a raven in his thorax.He killed the caracal and the apoc before the raven popped him.I agree that some personal skill and luck is always involed,but please do that in any other tier3 cruiser,or better yet a HAC and i will agree it's balanced.Otherwise i want a 120m3 drone bay on the minnie cruisers and HAC's as well. Apoc Kill Caracal Kill Thorax Kill - Please take note of the fittings Read these again. Look at the times. This is clearly why the Rax dronebay + New 1600mm plate = teh overpwning wtfbbq THE SOLUTIONÖ Reduce Thorax Dronebay to Deimos Size add 3300 armor to non-caldari cruisers Add equivalent shield to Caldari Cruisers Add Mass to Plating equivalent to sizing Look ma I fixed all the problems at once! Cruisers viable! Thorax balanced! Plated ceptor stupidity fixed! World poverty abolished! Well....it fixes most of the problems. Quote the The SolutionÖ and sign to show your support! Nyxus PS- if anyone can post links to your rax getting pwned to show it's not uber I dare you to link them like Blackdog to prove it. I dont wanna be the ******* that reigns on ugg's parade(still a great kill). but i think that the rax would have been flattended if that apoc pilot had even the SLIGHTEST idea how to fit an amarr ship. this says it all: Fitted - Medium slot Large Shield Booster I 1 Sensor Booster I 1 Barton Reactor Capacitor Recharger I 1 LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets 1 Fitted - Low slot Power Diagnostic System I 2 Warp Core Stabilizer I 1 Co-Processor I
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.24 04:36:00 - [282] Thorax pilots all know, but try to ignore: 8 heavy drones are.... FULL BS SET for 99% of bs pilots. No other medium ship can possibly mount anything close to bs capacity - no noses, megapulses, large smartbombs or rack of cruise launchers. Still thorax has both best gallente cruiser grid AND 5 turrets with appropriate damage bonus Vexor for isntance has ABSOLUTELY no advantage in anything, beeing DEDICATED drone ship Thorax bay is twice of both deimos and brutix while these are better gallente ships with similar role - close hitter. All non thorax pilots know, but try to ignore that wihtout 8 havies thorax will fall to a crowd of noob ships, because: It can't be possibly set up as intended with med blaster to use bonuses because first it has no grid Second with 1 mwd any approach to blaster range is sure death without full tank with 1600 armor plate, even with it thorax with blasters only wont have any real power to compensate for hits during approach Thorax as a gunboat lucks slots, having 2 slots less the maller, since med hybrids are pain to fit on it using other guns will waste bonus, so there is no point to use med hybrids AND thorax Med guns by the way have so little advantage over frig one both in dps, and in case of blasters range, that practicaly there is no point in med guns at all, since they dont have real role now. Under 20 km frig long range hit good, beyond that its a bs range. And not to mention that med guns track about 10 times worse (!) Cruiser in a combat takes beating from all other ships and can't outrun bs weaponry, yet it is too weak to be real power against multiple smaller ships. In case of thorax drone bay allows to have extreamly rare combination of good firepower vs bs, frig guns vs frigs and practicaly max possible cruiser tank and HP all together. Once drones are gone thorax becomes 10 mil destroyer. My vote would be to remake thorax as: 8 med drones. 4 med slots MWD bonus to sig penalty, not cap. (i.e. at level 5 cruiser mwd does not increase signature at all). Which is needed for approach, yet make it hard to orbit with mwd on forever 800 grid and probably a bit more cpu Still i say its a hell of a pvp ship for full insurance and a week of skills.
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.24 04:36:00 - [283] Thorax pilots all know, but try to ignore: 8 heavy drones are.... FULL BS SET for 99% of bs pilots. No other medium ship can possibly mount anything close to bs capacity - no noses, megapulses, large smartbombs or rack of cruise launchers. Still thorax has both best gallente cruiser grid AND 5 turrets with appropriate damage bonus Vexor for isntance has ABSOLUTELY no advantage in anything, beeing DEDICATED drone ship Thorax bay is twice of both deimos and brutix while these are better gallente ships with similar role - close hitter. All non thorax pilots know, but try to ignore that wihtout 8 havies thorax will fall to a crowd of noob ships, because: It can't be possibly set up as intended with med blaster to use bonuses because first it has no grid Second with 1 mwd any approach to blaster range is sure death without full tank with 1600 armor plate, even with it thorax with blasters only wont have any real power to compensate for hits during approach Thorax as a gunboat lucks slots, having 2 slots less the maller, since med hybrids are pain to fit on it using other guns will waste bonus, so there is no point to use med hybrids AND thorax Med guns by the way have so little advantage over frig one both in dps, and in case of blasters range, that practicaly there is no point in med guns at all, since they dont have real role now. Under 20 km frig long range hit good, beyond that its a bs range. And not to mention that med guns track about 10 times worse (!) Cruiser in a combat takes beating from all other ships and can't outrun bs weaponry, yet it is too weak to be real power against multiple smaller ships. In case of thorax drone bay allows to have extreamly rare combination of good firepower vs bs, frig guns vs frigs and practicaly max possible cruiser tank and HP all together. Once drones are gone thorax becomes 10 mil destroyer. My vote would be to remake thorax as: 8 med drones. 4 med slots MWD bonus to sig penalty, not cap. (i.e. at level 5 cruiser mwd does not increase signature at all). Which is needed for approach, yet make it hard to orbit with mwd on forever 800 grid and probably a bit more cpu Still i say its a hell of a pvp ship for full insurance and a week of skills.
Franky B	Posted - 2005.08.24 04:54:00 - [284] I was a strong defender of the thorax's drone bay for a long time... but SERIOUSLY, the argument for example, that the vexor is a T1 cruiser and the thorax is a T2 cruiser is moot. ccp designed the 2 or 3 teirs of ships not for "this one is BETTER than the other" but rather "this one does something that the other doesnt". the best example there are battleships. the 2 varieties you can fly arent better or worse than their counterparts, they just do certain things better... NOW the vexor... is COMPLETELY outclassed by the *****ax. I thought to myself "hey, lets try a nosxor setup". but after further thought... the thorax does it better. more speed, more cap, heavier drones, more PG, more tank. the thorax is SO much better than the vexor in every single way EXCEPT for say inty killing (where 14 light drones will take down an inty much better than 9) and even then, a thorax with 5x 150mm T2 guns/125mm T2 guns can do a pretty fair job of ripping through some intys (and the 1600mm plate just gives it even MORE time to do so) and throwing in the 1600mm plate just magnify's the problem.
Franky B Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2005.08.24 04:54:00 - [285] I was a strong defender of the thorax's drone bay for a long time... but SERIOUSLY, the argument for example, that the vexor is a T1 cruiser and the thorax is a T2 cruiser is moot. ccp designed the 2 or 3 teirs of ships not for "this one is BETTER than the other" but rather "this one does something that the other doesnt". the best example there are battleships. the 2 varieties you can fly arent better or worse than their counterparts, they just do certain things better... NOW the vexor... is COMPLETELY outclassed by the *****ax. I thought to myself "hey, lets try a nosxor setup". but after further thought... the thorax does it better. more speed, more cap, heavier drones, more PG, more tank. the thorax is SO much better than the vexor in every single way EXCEPT for say inty killing (where 14 light drones will take down an inty much better than 9) and even then, a thorax with 5x 150mm T2 guns/125mm T2 guns can do a pretty fair job of ripping through some intys (and the 1600mm plate just gives it even MORE time to do so) and throwing in the 1600mm plate just magnify's the problem.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:00:00 - [286] Edited by: j0sephine on 24/08/2005 05:02:10 "Med guns by the way have so little advantage over frig one both in dps, and in case of blasters range, that practicaly there is no point in med guns at all, since they dont have real role now." Uhmm... * light electron blaster, skills maxed, no ship bonus: 13.84 dps * heavy electron blaster, skills maxed, Thorax bonus: 23.33 dps if ~70% more damage is 'little advantage' then it's kinda scary to think what a 'fair advantage' would be... :/ (the difference is same between 125mm rails and the 200mm rails, btw)
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:00:00 - [287] Edited by: j0sephine on 24/08/2005 05:02:10 "Med guns by the way have so little advantage over frig one both in dps, and in case of blasters range, that practicaly there is no point in med guns at all, since they dont have real role now." Uhmm... * light electron blaster, skills maxed, no ship bonus: 13.84 dps * heavy electron blaster, skills maxed, Thorax bonus: 23.33 dps if ~70% more damage is 'little advantage' then it's kinda scary to think what a 'fair advantage' would be... :/ (the difference is same between 125mm rails and the 200mm rails, btw)
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:02:00 - [288] Nomen...your solution is fair, but no less infuriating. All of this "balancing" silliness is fast making every ship the same. Take away a drone-boats drones and give it more grid and gun-based power? Turn it into a maller or Moa? Feh. Fact is...take away the plate, and the thorax is actually quite easy to kill. That doesn't make me like it less, 'cause if you strap on, grit your teeth and just go for it, you can bring sick firpower to bear. It's a high risk, high return vessel. Fix the plate situation and you've got a vessel that has significantly more firepower than any other cruiser...and is significantly more fragile than any other cruiser. It balances, trust me. A non-plated thorax is just too easy to kill, because it's mwd-ing as it approaches. However, put in the effort to actually survive and get close...and you get your amazing rewards. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:02:00 - [289] Nomen...your solution is fair, but no less infuriating. All of this "balancing" silliness is fast making every ship the same. Take away a drone-boats drones and give it more grid and gun-based power? Turn it into a maller or Moa? Feh. Fact is...take away the plate, and the thorax is actually quite easy to kill. That doesn't make me like it less, 'cause if you strap on, grit your teeth and just go for it, you can bring sick firpower to bear. It's a high risk, high return vessel. Fix the plate situation and you've got a vessel that has significantly more firepower than any other cruiser...and is significantly more fragile than any other cruiser. It balances, trust me. A non-plated thorax is just too easy to kill, because it's mwd-ing as it approaches. However, put in the effort to actually survive and get close...and you get your amazing rewards.
W0lverine	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:12:00 - [290] ok all you who thin that rax aint 2 good, name 1 cruiser that can *****BS's easly, I'v killed so many BS's inrax past few days that I losr count....now, what cruiser can do it?

W0lverine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:12:00 - [291] ok all you who thin that rax aint 2 good, name 1 cruiser that can *****BS's easly, I'v killed so many BS's inrax past few days that I losr count....now, what cruiser can do it?
Lorth	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:18:00 - [292] Errm, as much as I like having cruiser 5, and being able to fly the best cruiser by far, I think the thorax simply needs to have its drone bay reduced. And yes I know that cruisers in general suck. But lets at least get them to the same level, and then we can talk about boosting them all at the same time. Simply increasing cruiser damage to that of a thorax, really won't be easy, or solve all of the problems. And it really isn't the damage issue so much as it is an issue of agility, speed, hit points, ETC. None of which can be properally balanced if the thorax is still the cruiser of choice because of that blasted drone bay. BTW. Am I right in remembering that a thorax with maxed skills, out damages a deimos with maxed skills, simply because of the drone?
Lorth Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:18:00 - [293] Errm, as much as I like having cruiser 5, and being able to fly the best cruiser by far, I think the thorax simply needs to have its drone bay reduced. And yes I know that cruisers in general suck. But lets at least get them to the same level, and then we can talk about boosting them all at the same time. Simply increasing cruiser damage to that of a thorax, really won't be easy, or solve all of the problems. And it really isn't the damage issue so much as it is an issue of agility, speed, hit points, ETC. None of which can be properally balanced if the thorax is still the cruiser of choice because of that blasted drone bay. BTW. Am I right in remembering that a thorax with maxed skills, out damages a deimos with maxed skills, simply because of the drone?
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:19:00 - [294] Originally by: W0lverine ok all you who thin that rax aint 2 good, name 1 cruiser that can *****BS's easly, I'v killed so many BS's inrax past few days that I losr count....now, what cruiser can do it? Not sure anybody said the 'rax ain't good. Any short-range gank-kitted cruiser that drops out of warp on top of a battleship is gonna have a good chance to kill it. And if the battleship has NOS, heavy drones, or close range weapons itself, it's gonna do away with said cruiser quite swiftly...thorax or otherwise. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:19:00 - [295] Originally by: W0lverine ok all you who thin that rax aint 2 good, name 1 cruiser that can *****BS's easly, I'v killed so many BS's inrax past few days that I losr count....now, what cruiser can do it? Not sure anybody said the 'rax ain't good. Any short-range gank-kitted cruiser that drops out of warp on top of a battleship is gonna have a good chance to kill it. And if the battleship has NOS, heavy drones, or close range weapons itself, it's gonna do away with said cruiser quite swiftly...thorax or otherwise.
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:30:00 - [296] Originally by: Lorth Errm, as much as I like having cruiser 5, and being able to fly the best cruiser by far, I think the thorax simply needs to have its drone bay reduced. And yes I know that cruisers in general suck. But lets at least get them to the same level, and then we can talk about boosting them all at the same time. Simply increasing cruiser damage to that of a thorax, really won't be easy, or solve all of the problems. And it really isn't the damage issue so much as it is an issue of agility, speed, hit points, ETC. None of which can be properally balanced if the thorax is still the cruiser of choice because of that blasted drone bay. BTW. Am I right in remembering that a thorax with maxed skills, out damages a deimos with maxed skills, simply because of the drone? You're forgetting the other side of the equation. As much extra firepower as the thorax has, it's terribly fragile without plate. Plate is the problem, not the thorax. Fitting battleship sized mods to cruisers is like jet-can mining: it was not so much intended to be a common practice. Re: nerfing the ability to fit up-sized afterburners to vessels. I curse the genius who came up with fitting 1600 plate to a thorax. Before that became common practice, the thorax was considered ****-poor for combat by the ignorant masses, and not many folks dared bring up something so rediculous as a "nerf." Only those who dared bring it into combat, specialize in close-range combat, and brave whithering fire on the approach appreciated its usefulness. Now, you can sacrifice a little bit of firpower to turn it into a tank with battleship-class armor and everybody is screaming NERF!! If anything needs nerfed, its the armor. NOT the drones. When you're down to less than half armor by the time your drones and blasters are in effective range, you NEED all that firepower. And that's what makes the thorax so unique, and so much fun. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.24 05:30:00 - [297] Originally by: Lorth Errm, as much as I like having cruiser 5, and being able to fly the best cruiser by far, I think the thorax simply needs to have its drone bay reduced. And yes I know that cruisers in general suck. But lets at least get them to the same level, and then we can talk about boosting them all at the same time. Simply increasing cruiser damage to that of a thorax, really won't be easy, or solve all of the problems. And it really isn't the damage issue so much as it is an issue of agility, speed, hit points, ETC. None of which can be properally balanced if the thorax is still the cruiser of choice because of that blasted drone bay. BTW. Am I right in remembering that a thorax with maxed skills, out damages a deimos with maxed skills, simply because of the drone? You're forgetting the other side of the equation. As much extra firepower as the thorax has, it's terribly fragile without plate. Plate is the problem, not the thorax. Fitting battleship sized mods to cruisers is like jet-can mining: it was not so much intended to be a common practice. Re: nerfing the ability to fit up-sized afterburners to vessels. I curse the genius who came up with fitting 1600 plate to a thorax. Before that became common practice, the thorax was considered ****-poor for combat by the ignorant masses, and not many folks dared bring up something so rediculous as a "nerf." Only those who dared bring it into combat, specialize in close-range combat, and brave whithering fire on the approach appreciated its usefulness. Now, you can sacrifice a little bit of firpower to turn it into a tank with battleship-class armor and everybody is screaming NERF!! If anything needs nerfed, its the armor. NOT the drones. When you're down to less than half armor by the time your drones and blasters are in effective range, you NEED all that firepower. And that's what makes the thorax so unique, and so much fun.
Lorth	Posted - 2005.08.24 06:02:00 - [298] Originally by: Garreck You're forgetting the other side of the equation. As much extra firepower as the thorax has, it's terribly fragile without plate. Plate is the problem, not the thorax. Fitting battleship sized mods to cruisers is like jet-can mining: it was not so much intended to be a common practice. Re: nerfing the ability to fit up-sized afterburners to vessels. I curse the genius who came up with fitting 1600 plate to a thorax. Before that became common practice, the thorax was considered ****-poor for combat by the ignorant masses, and not many folks dared bring up something so rediculous as a "nerf." Only those who dared bring it into combat, specialize in close-range combat, and brave whithering fire on the approach appreciated its usefulness. Now, you can sacrifice a little bit of firpower to turn it into a tank with battleship-class armor and everybody is screaming NERF!! If anything needs nerfed, its the armor. NOT the drones. When you're down to less than half armor by the time your drones and blasters are in effective range, you NEED all that firepower. And that's what makes the thorax so unique, and so much fun. No that thorax is still better, even if cruisers couldn't fit plates. And yes, while oversized plates are certainly a problem, they are certainly not the reason the thorax is unbalanced. And before 1600mm plates became common practice, thoarxes were still the most used cruiser, simply because they are overpowered. The only time, in recent memory that anouther cruiser has been as popular, was during the dual MWD maller days. Sure the thorax is unique, and I have a fair amount of fun in it. But the unbalanced amount of drones it carries, does make it unbalanced when compared to other cruisers. Cruisers need a boost, but how about we get them all on the same playing field before doing so?
Lorth Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2005.08.24 06:02:00 - [299] Originally by: Garreck You're forgetting the other side of the equation. As much extra firepower as the thorax has, it's terribly fragile without plate. Plate is the problem, not the thorax. Fitting battleship sized mods to cruisers is like jet-can mining: it was not so much intended to be a common practice. Re: nerfing the ability to fit up-sized afterburners to vessels. I curse the genius who came up with fitting 1600 plate to a thorax. Before that became common practice, the thorax was considered ****-poor for combat by the ignorant masses, and not many folks dared bring up something so rediculous as a "nerf." Only those who dared bring it into combat, specialize in close-range combat, and brave whithering fire on the approach appreciated its usefulness. Now, you can sacrifice a little bit of firpower to turn it into a tank with battleship-class armor and everybody is screaming NERF!! If anything needs nerfed, its the armor. NOT the drones. When you're down to less than half armor by the time your drones and blasters are in effective range, you NEED all that firepower. And that's what makes the thorax so unique, and so much fun. No that thorax is still better, even if cruisers couldn't fit plates. And yes, while oversized plates are certainly a problem, they are certainly not the reason the thorax is unbalanced. And before 1600mm plates became common practice, thoarxes were still the most used cruiser, simply because they are overpowered. The only time, in recent memory that anouther cruiser has been as popular, was during the dual MWD maller days. Sure the thorax is unique, and I have a fair amount of fun in it. But the unbalanced amount of drones it carries, does make it unbalanced when compared to other cruisers. Cruisers need a boost, but how about we get them all on the same playing field before doing so?
Ante	Posted - 2005.08.24 06:33:00 - [300] Originally by: j0sephine Uhmm... * light electron blaster, skills maxed, no ship bonus: 13.84 dps * heavy electron blaster, skills maxed, Thorax bonus: 23.33 dps if ~70% more damage is 'little advantage' then it's kinda scary to think what a 'fair advantage' would be... :/ People generally complain about hybrid turrets lacking in general so feel free to apply this across the board: light electron blaster: 4 power grid requirement heavy electron blaster: 100 power grid requirement That 70% damage increase is suddenly devalued when you consider the plethora of fitting options (read: battleship plate) opened up to a thorax pilot, shockingly, because they can still do a huge amount of damage through drones. The damage increase is not worth the huge power grid requirement. As a side point it's interesting that Caldari cruiser weapons only use 100 grid all 'round when the weakest cruiser blaster uses the same and has ~1/50th the range for totallynotworthit damage.



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