EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3

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Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.23 23:35:00 - [211] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 23/08/2005 23:50:37 Originally by: Garreck Ignorance. I'd like to be less ignorant. Care to explain ? Edit: Caldari are long range, that mean railguns and missiles. So it is ok to have railguns and missiles on the same ships, and it is ok if the moa, despite being primarily a gunboat, has more missiles launchers than the caracal because it is a higher thier ship. This is perfectly logic according to your own logic, so take that IGNORANCE statement back. Or, please reconsider your previous affirmation regarding the fact that the thorax has both more drones and more guns than the specialized drone carrier, and that is it perfectly fine. Thank you. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.23 23:58:00 - [212] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 23/08/2005 23:50:37 Originally by: Garreck Ignorance. I'd like to be less ignorant. Care to explain ? Your example was rediculously overboard and, now that I see your edit, I was right...the comparison was based in ignorance: Originally by: Naughty Boy Or, please reconsider your previous affirmation regarding the fact that the thorax has both more drones and more guns than the specialized drone carrier, and that is it perfectly fine. The assertion (and it's not mine...it's the ship description) is that the thorax IS the specialized drone carrier. The Vexor doesn't compare, because the Vexor is a teir II cruiser. You can't call one a drone carrier and the other a blaster boat. The thorax is just plain "a better ship." Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.23 23:58:00 - [213] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 23/08/2005 23:50:37 Originally by: Garreck Ignorance. I'd like to be less ignorant. Care to explain ? Your example was rediculously overboard and, now that I see your edit, I was right...the comparison was based in ignorance: Originally by: Naughty Boy Or, please reconsider your previous affirmation regarding the fact that the thorax has both more drones and more guns than the specialized drone carrier, and that is it perfectly fine. The assertion (and it's not mine...it's the ship description) is that the thorax IS the specialized drone carrier. The Vexor doesn't compare, because the Vexor is a teir II cruiser. You can't call one a drone carrier and the other a blaster boat. The thorax is just plain "a better ship."
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:03:00 - [214] Originally by: Garreck The assertion (and it's not mine...it's the ship description) is that the thorax IS the specialized drone carrier. The Vexor doesn't compare, because the Vexor is a teir II cruiser. You can't call one a drone carrier and the other a blaster boat. The thorax is just plain "a better ship." Dude, don't believe everything you read, the cerberus should make "every armor tanker out there run for the hills" and we all know about this. You are the one showing ignorance here. Besides, 10 mediums drones instead of 8 heavy would not make the description of the thorax less accurate. Telling that the thorax is fine because it his how ccp designed it is a blatant provocation as we all know that only *****ing made ccp revert the change they made (halving the drone bay for balance's sake). Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:03:00 - [215] Originally by: Garreck The assertion (and it's not mine...it's the ship description) is that the thorax IS the specialized drone carrier. The Vexor doesn't compare, because the Vexor is a teir II cruiser. You can't call one a drone carrier and the other a blaster boat. The thorax is just plain "a better ship." Dude, don't believe everything you read, the cerberus should make "every armor tanker out there run for the hills" and we all know about this. You are the one showing ignorance here. Besides, 10 mediums drones instead of 8 heavy would not make the description of the thorax less accurate. Telling that the thorax is fine because it his how ccp designed it is a blatant provocation as we all know that only ***ing made ccp revert the change they made (halving the drone bay for balance's sake). Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust**
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:08:00 - [216] Originally by: Naughty Boy Telling that the thorax is fine because it his how ccp designed it is a blatant provocation as we all know that only *****ing made ccp revert the change they made (halving the drone bay for balance's sake). Halving the drone bay will not fix any balance issues. Plain and simple. If any "nerf" needs to take place, it's the ability of a cruiser to mount battleship sized armor with no penalty. Try this out some time: have an un-plated thorax run at you on mwd from, say, 30km away. Open up with your moa. See what happens. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:08:00 - [217] Originally by: Naughty Boy Telling that the thorax is fine because it his how ccp designed it is a blatant provocation as we all know that only *****ing made ccp revert the change they made (halving the drone bay for balance's sake). Halving the drone bay will not fix any balance issues. Plain and simple. If any "nerf" needs to take place, it's the ability of a cruiser to mount battleship sized armor with no penalty. Try this out some time: have an un-plated thorax run at you on mwd from, say, 30km away. Open up with your moa. See what happens.
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:09:00 - [218] damn, I get more and more sick of the people who say nerf this and nerf this, its getting pretty old. maybe the thorax is more powerful than any other cruiser. but you know what who cares. atleast we have one tech 1 ship under 10M in this world of tech 2 this and tech 2 that that atleast can be a good ship for us not so wealthy pvpers to use. if anything boost the other ships because they need it more than the thorax needs to be nerfed. but if the devs do give into the complaining (have a feeling they will) atleast give the rax enough cpu/pg to fit a full rack of ions, and a decent tank. and give the drone bay to the brutix which should also receave a bit of a cpu boost, so that it could fit a rack of at least heavy electrons, and a decent tank without a RCU. need a sig? Gallery Contact me for more information
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:09:00 - [219] damn, I get more and more sick of the people who say nerf this and nerf this, its getting pretty old. maybe the thorax is more powerful than any other cruiser. but you know what who cares. atleast we have one tech 1 ship under 10M in this world of tech 2 this and tech 2 that that atleast can be a good ship for us not so wealthy pvpers to use. if anything boost the other ships because they need it more than the thorax needs to be nerfed. but if the devs do give into the complaining (have a feeling they will) atleast give the rax enough cpu/pg to fit a full rack of ions, and a decent tank. and give the drone bay to the brutix which should also receave a bit of a cpu boost, so that it could fit a rack of at least heavy electrons, and a decent tank without a RCU.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:14:00 - [220] Originally by: Garreck Halving the drone bay will not fix any balance issues. Plain and simple. If any "nerf" needs to take place, it's the ability of a cruiser to mount battleship sized armor with no penalty. Try this out some time: have an un-plated thorax run at you on mwd from, say, 30km away. Open up with your moa. See what happens. Nothing happens, the thorax warps out. That is the very reason why t1 cruisers have nowhere to leave outside of the plate + frig guns + drones. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:14:00 - [221] Originally by: Garreck Halving the drone bay will not fix any balance issues. Plain and simple. If any "nerf" needs to take place, it's the ability of a cruiser to mount battleship sized armor with no penalty. Try this out some time: have an un-plated thorax run at you on mwd from, say, 30km away. Open up with your moa. See what happens. Nothing happens, the thorax warps out. That is the very reason why t1 cruisers have nowhere to leave outside of the plate + frig guns + drones. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
BlackDog Rackh'am	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:15:00 - [222] FFS a god damn thorax can kill a deimos if you set it up the right way,mkay?No racial whines or anything,just gallente VS gallente.If the thorax should be all-around better than the vexor just cause it's tier 3,then deimos must surely be better than the thorax since it's tech2,huh? What most people try to say and some don't understand is this:ALL CRUISERS have a hard time in the game,and if you want survivability you must accept a reduced damage output on your ship.Otherwise gank-fit it and just kill your enemy first. The ONLY tech1 cruiser that can both tank and have a decent damage output AT THE SAME TIME is the thorax.Well,you gotta struggle to get in range first and THANK GOD FOR THAT.If you want the rax to be better than the vexor just cause it's tier3,that doesn't mean it should be better than all of the other tier3 cruisers.(by better i mean one setup versatility that requires speficic setups to counter,which leave the opposing ship totally gimped) And don't tell me about long range ganking ruptures,unless you have tried to fit one and realized that with such a setup it's a paper-thin-defense ship,not to mention that 1vs1 a rax will never loose to that even if it doesn't win.Ruppy can't tackle from 40km away now,can it? Boost grid/cpu on rax.Reduce drone bay size.Fix the rest of the cruisers so they can perform well in their intended roles.It's long overdue just like the mega pulse range adjustment.Gallente pilots weren't happy when the geddon was sniping them from 90km with the amarr equivalent of a blaster-type weapon.Now the rest of the community are not happy about the gallente cruiser fitting fat tanks and maintaining higher than average damage at the same time.If you want the extra damage,take the risk everyone has to take and fit a gank-no-tank setup on it,just like everyone else has to.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:15:00 - [223] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 24/08/2005 00:15:00 Originally by: FalloutBoy but if the devs do give into the complaining (have a feeling they will) atleast give the rax enough cpu/pg to fit a full rack of ions, and a decent tank. and give the drone bay to the brutix which should also receave a bit of a cpu boost, so that it could fit a rack of at least heavy electrons, and a decent tank without a RCU. That would be awesome. And complaining about what they did when other people complained is fair game. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:15:00 - [224] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 24/08/2005 00:15:00 Originally by: FalloutBoy but if the devs do give into the complaining (have a feeling they will) atleast give the rax enough cpu/pg to fit a full rack of ions, and a decent tank. and give the drone bay to the brutix which should also receave a bit of a cpu boost, so that it could fit a rack of at least heavy electrons, and a decent tank without a RCU. That would be awesome. And complaining about what they did when other people complained is fair game. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
BlackDog Rackh'am Minmatar Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:15:00 - [225] FFS a god damn thorax can kill a deimos if you set it up the right way,mkay?No racial whines or anything,just gallente VS gallente.If the thorax should be all-around better than the vexor just cause it's tier 3,then deimos must surely be better than the thorax since it's tech2,huh? What most people try to say and some don't understand is this:ALL CRUISERS have a hard time in the game,and if you want survivability you must accept a reduced damage output on your ship.Otherwise gank-fit it and just kill your enemy first. The ONLY tech1 cruiser that can both tank and have a decent damage output AT THE SAME TIME is the thorax.Well,you gotta struggle to get in range first and THANK GOD FOR THAT.If you want the rax to be better than the vexor just cause it's tier3,that doesn't mean it should be better than all of the other tier3 cruisers.(by better i mean one setup versatility that requires speficic setups to counter,which leave the opposing ship totally gimped) And don't tell me about long range ganking ruptures,unless you have tried to fit one and realized that with such a setup it's a paper-thin-defense ship,not to mention that 1vs1 a rax will never loose to that even if it doesn't win.Ruppy can't tackle from 40km away now,can it? Boost grid/cpu on rax.Reduce drone bay size.Fix the rest of the cruisers so they can perform well in their intended roles.It's long overdue just like the mega pulse range adjustment.Gallente pilots weren't happy when the geddon was sniping them from 90km with the amarr equivalent of a blaster-type weapon.Now the rest of the community are not happy about the gallente cruiser fitting fat tanks and maintaining higher than average damage at the same time.If you want the extra damage,take the risk everyone has to take and fit a gank-no-tank setup on it,just like everyone else has to.
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:19:00 - [226] Come, now. I could make the case that the moa warps out as well. This is simply a static example so you can see how much damage heavy missiles and medium rails will do to an mwd-ing target. Obviouly "teamwork" is going to come into play where proper combat is concerned. Seriously. Try it. Better still, fit an AB and target painter on the moa...move in the opposite direction, delaying the thorax further still, and making his sig radius all the more rediculously large. My point is that 8 drones don't mean beans if they can't get to you before you blow up the thorax. Furthermore, it's only fair that the thorax have superior DoT, because if it does reach its target, it's got a lot of catching up to do in the damage department. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:19:00 - [227] Come, now. I could make the case that the moa warps out as well. This is simply a static example so you can see how much damage heavy missiles and medium rails will do to an mwd-ing target. Obviouly "teamwork" is going to come into play where proper combat is concerned. Seriously. Try it. Better still, fit an AB and target painter on the moa...move in the opposite direction, delaying the thorax further still, and making his sig radius all the more rediculously large. My point is that 8 drones don't mean beans if they can't get to you before you blow up the thorax. Furthermore, it's only fair that the thorax have superior DoT, because if it does reach its target, it's got a lot of catching up to do in the damage department.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:34:00 - [228] Originally by: Garreck Seriously. Try it. Better still, fit an AB and target painter on the moa...move in the opposite direction, delaying the thorax further still, and making his sig radius all the more rediculously large. I did do it, and my tanked (heresy) stabber got pwned pretty hard against a caracal in the same way. But to be honest, that is not my point at all, as "if you are tackled" or "if he is tackled" is only relevant to "close range - long range discussion", nothing particularly relevant to our case. Originally by: Garreck My point is that 8 drones don't mean beans if they can't get to you before you blow up the thorax. Furthermore, it's only fair that the thorax have superior DoT, because if it does reach its target, it's got a lot of catching up to do in the damage department. That is only true in the blaster + drones scenario. If you are tackled, you lose anyway. If you are not, why stay there for a fight you can't win ? My problem is the ability of the thorax to use with his plate and frig guns a whole lot of drone: the unique ability to fig bs plate + 8 heavy drones + frig guns make this ship a monster, versatile and survivable, that is going to kill most of the other versatile ships+setups combo. Hence, you need a more specific, less versatile, hence less survivable setup to kill it. That is the general rule, with every ship and every possible setup i can fly. I believe that i am not a complete newbie in the fitting departement, and that according to my (limited and all) experience, this is not right. And i explained this with all the patience i had. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.24 00:34:00 - [229] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 24/08/2005 00:56:51 Originally by: Garreck Seriously. Try it. Better still, fit an AB and target painter on the moa...move in the opposite direction, delaying the thorax further still, and making his sig radius all the more rediculously large. I did do it, and my tanked (heresy) stabber got pwned pretty hard against a caracal in the same way. But to be honest, that is not my point at all, as "if you are tackled" or "if he is tackled" is only relevant to "close range - long range discussion", nothing particularly relevant to our case. Originally by: Garreck My point is that 8 drones don't mean beans if they can't get to you before you blow up the thorax. Furthermore, it's only fair that the thorax have superior DoT, because if it does reach its target, it's got a lot of catching up to do in the damage department. That is only true in the blaster + drones scenario. If you are tackled, you lose anyway. If you are not, why stay there for a fight you can't win ? My problem is the ability of the thorax to use with his plate and frig guns a whole lot of drones: the unique ability to fig bs plate + 8 heavy drones + frig guns make this ship a monster, versatile and survivable, that is going to kill most of the other versatile ships+setups combo. Hence, you need a more specific, less versatile, hence less survivable setup to kill it. That is the general rule, with every ship and every possible setup i can fly. I believe that i am not a complete newbie in the fitting departement, and that according to my (limited and all) experience, this is not right. And i explained this with all the patience i had. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
pardux	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:02:00 - [230] dunno if i replied to this thread earlier... THORAX IS OVERPOWERED K? guess why they are the most popular cruisers? 4/5 cruisers i see are thoraxes and all plated with frig guns.
pardux The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:02:00 - [231] dunno if i replied to this thread earlier... THORAX IS OVERPOWERED K? guess why they are the most popular cruisers? 4/5 cruisers i see are thoraxes and all plated with frig guns.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:06:00 - [232] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 24/08/2005 01:06:36 Brutix is the best BC already, only a full t2 gankproph would have a chance vs it, and you want it boosted even more? Loller. btw the thorax is ridiculous nerf plz.
DrunkenOne Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:06:00 - [233] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 24/08/2005 01:06:36 Brutix is the best BC already, only a full t2 gankproph would have a chance vs it, and you want it boosted even more? Loller. btw the thorax is ridiculous nerf plz. Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:18:00 - [234] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 24/08/2005 01:06:36 Brutix is the best BC already, only a full t2 gankproph would have a chance vs it, and you want it boosted even more? Loller. btw the thorax is ridiculous nerf plz. you keep saying this yet I have yet to find out your fittings....ahh screw it now that you aren't in 5 I'll just have to kill yah to find out need a sig? Gallery Contact me for more information
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:18:00 - [235] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 24/08/2005 01:06:36 Brutix is the best BC already, only a full t2 gankproph would have a chance vs it, and you want it boosted even more? Loller. btw the thorax is ridiculous nerf plz. you keep saying this yet I have yet to find out your fittings....ahh screw it now that you aren't in 5 I'll just have to kill yah to find out
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:31:00 - [236] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Naughty Boy Telling that the thorax is fine because it his how ccp designed it is a blatant provocation as we all know that only *****ing made ccp revert the change they made (halving the drone bay for balance's sake). Halving the drone bay will not fix any balance issues. Plain and simple. If any "nerf" needs to take place, it's the ability of a cruiser to mount battleship sized armor with no penalty. Try this out some time: have an un-plated thorax run at you on mwd from, say, 30km away. Open up with your moa. See what happens. Sorry but the Oversized AB != Oversized Plates. There are delicate things in balance WHEN you have the speed to NOT be hit and tracking to hit WHILE having speed. Oversized plates do not make you Invulnerable to enemy ships. It makes fights last longer. You can use hardners, membranes on the lows to mitigate or enahance the same attributes. You can also conversely shield tank on other ships. You can also use your speed to mitigate being hit by a plated ship. You could only use Oversized and dual fitted ABs and nanofibers that enhanced them even more to compete or compensate. MWDs were poinless w. Oversized ABs. This is not the case with Oversized plates. You can use speed to mitigate the firepower coming from a cruiser in a smaller ship EXEPT for a thorax with its HUGE drone bay that wtfpwnbbq's frigs and other cruisers. It negates tactics to the Nth degree. It breaks gameplay and all you want to hold on to is a description. Son, my first char and some of my alts are gallente so don't try RP pride here. Its about logistics and statistics. You want to nerf a module to keep the uberness of the ship because it will STILL have tactical advantages over EVERY OTHER CRUISER in EVE's current state. The beauty of Cruisers is that it can either fit small guns/launchers and go for longevity or it can go for Medium Guns and raw DPS. The broken element in cruisers comes from throwback stats such as pgrid/cpu needs of Medium guns and small/large drone bays of a certain ships. If the Thorax gets 200m3 drones ... SIR ... I want 120m3 on a rupture. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:31:00 - [237] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Naughty Boy Telling that the thorax is fine because it his how ccp designed it is a blatant provocation as we all know that only *****ing made ccp revert the change they made (halving the drone bay for balance's sake). Halving the drone bay will not fix any balance issues. Plain and simple. If any "nerf" needs to take place, it's the ability of a cruiser to mount battleship sized armor with no penalty. Try this out some time: have an un-plated thorax run at you on mwd from, say, 30km away. Open up with your moa. See what happens. Sorry but the Oversized AB != Oversized Plates. There are delicate things in balance WHEN you have the speed to NOT be hit and tracking to hit WHILE having speed. Oversized plates do not make you Invulnerable to enemy ships. It makes fights last longer. You can use hardners, membranes on the lows to mitigate or enahance the same attributes. You can also conversely shield tank on other ships. You can also use your speed to mitigate being hit by a plated ship. You could only use Oversized and dual fitted ABs and nanofibers that enhanced them even more to compete or compensate. MWDs were poinless w. Oversized ABs. This is not the case with Oversized plates. You can use speed to mitigate the firepower coming from a cruiser in a smaller ship EXEPT for a thorax with its HUGE drone bay that wtfpwnbbq's frigs and other cruisers. It negates tactics to the Nth degree. It breaks gameplay and all you want to hold on to is a description. Son, my first char and some of my alts are gallente so don't try RP pride here. Its about logistics and statistics. You want to nerf a module to keep the uberness of the ship because it will STILL have tactical advantages over EVERY OTHER CRUISER in EVE's current state. The beauty of Cruisers is that it can either fit small guns/launchers and go for longevity or it can go for Medium Guns and raw DPS. The broken element in cruisers comes from throwback stats such as pgrid/cpu needs of Medium guns and small/large drone bays of a certain ships. If the Thorax gets 200m3 drones ... SIR ... I want 120m3 on a rupture. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Imran	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:35:00 - [238] Thorax really hasnt changed in almost 2 years, except the xtra bonus. Just beacuse you got owned by a 1600mm rax plate in your arma or somthing dosnt mean you should nerf it, grow up. The thorax is good as it it. Boost every other crusier.
Imran Fate.	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:35:00 - [239] Thorax really hasnt changed in almost 2 years, except the xtra bonus. Just beacuse you got owned by a 1600mm rax plate in your arma or somthing dosnt mean you should nerf it, grow up. The thorax is good as it it. Boost every other crusier. EwokPoacher: Why hate Gallente? Blackest Sheep: Because we are beautiful Ch33z0rs: Pirating is such a harsh term. I prefer unil
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.08.24 01:41:00 - [240] Originally by: FalloutBoy Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 24/08/2005 01:06:36 Brutix is the best BC already, only a full t2 gankproph would have a chance vs it, and you want it boosted even more? Loller. btw the thorax is ridiculous nerf plz. you keep saying this yet I have yet to find out your fittings....ahh screw it now that you aren't in 5 I'll just have to kill yah to find out I cant even fly one effectively . Time to train up on sisi!

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