EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3

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Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.25 12:06:00 - [481] Originally by: Kye Kenshin By the way rax having 8 drones doesn't make it capable of killing BS its the 1600mm plate that does. No. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Stuart85	Posted - 2005.08.25 12:07:00 - [482] Originally by: CrowBar1 heh find one post by me where i want something nerfed. now lets get back on topic people want the rax nerfed because of its drones? well dont stop there nerf the domi too its got a good size drone bay and can use 425's omg its uber nerf it now lol. lets not stop there either lets nerf the scorpion's med slots cause it's one of the best EW ships out there omg i got pwned by a scorp because it webified me warp scrambled me and target jamed me then molested me with torps. ok now if every one could run the same setup on every ship then no one would be able to kill any one then what would be the point of pvp? it should all be left up to the skills if a pilot with 15mil sp kills a pilot with 3mil sp then the pilot with 3mil sp wants that ship nerfed cause he got his ass kicked. i bet that every one of these nerf this post are made by miner's wanting to be fighters and when they loose they come crying here to have somthing nerfed down to the point to where a fighter pilot cant win any battle.what gets me is that this is suppose to be a game where your suppose to have fun but all i can see is people crying about this and that.if i dont like a game i dont play it if i dont like whats on tv i turn the channel simple as that. And the award for gross oversimplification of the year goes to...
Stuart85	Posted - 2005.08.25 12:07:00 - [483] Originally by: CrowBar1 heh find one post by me where i want something nerfed. now lets get back on topic people want the rax nerfed because of its drones? well dont stop there nerf the domi too its got a good size drone bay and can use 425's omg its uber nerf it now lol. lets not stop there either lets nerf the scorpion's med slots cause it's one of the best EW ships out there omg i got pwned by a scorp because it webified me warp scrambled me and target jamed me then molested me with torps. ok now if every one could run the same setup on every ship then no one would be able to kill any one then what would be the point of pvp? it should all be left up to the skills if a pilot with 15mil sp kills a pilot with 3mil sp then the pilot with 3mil sp wants that ship nerfed cause he got his ass kicked. i bet that every one of these nerf this post are made by miner's wanting to be fighters and when they loose they come crying here to have somthing nerfed down to the point to where a fighter pilot cant win any battle.what gets me is that this is suppose to be a game where your suppose to have fun but all i can see is people crying about this and that.if i dont like a game i dont play it if i dont like whats on tv i turn the channel simple as that. And the award for gross oversimplification of the year goes to...
CrowBar1	Posted - 2005.08.25 12:25:00 - [484] Quote: And the award for gross oversimplification of the year goes to... every once in a while soe things have to be repeated over and over to get through some thick skulls :)
CrowBar1	Posted - 2005.08.25 12:25:00 - [485] Quote: And the award for gross oversimplification of the year goes to... every once in a while soe things have to be repeated over and over to get through some thick skulls :)
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.25 12:40:00 - [486] Originally by: Naughty Boy I do not agree. The thorax is not the only close range cruiser, yet it is the only one that get so much rewarded in extra damage (your own argument). It is the only short-range cruiser where long-range variants are not viable. Originally by: Naughty Boy It is not my fault that the thorax is best not used as a blaster boat. The drone bay is the reason why it is not best used as a blaster boat. Who need blasters on the thorax when there is such a drone bay ? I am afraid that your are strugling against your own point here. I guess it's also not your fault that this was obviously the role for which it was intended. You're speaking from ignorance again. Try to put together a viable railgun setup on a thorax, leaving out the 1600mm plate option (yes, 150mm IIs are a pretty viable rail setup, but my whole argument is that the 1600mm plate needs sorted out.) You'll quickly find that it cannot effectively fit rails and maintain any surviveability. Even with 200mm rails, it's simply not viable. 8 heavy drones don't matter for beans when an mwd-ing thorax can be gunned down by a proper cruiser in about 25 seconds. Especially if you're talking an engagement beyond 20km where it's going to take about that amount of time for the drones to even reach you. So what do we do then: change the whole premise of the Thorax? Give it more grid and less drones and let the maller come up as the next overpowered 1600mm cruiser? That's nonsensical. Your challenge doesn't hold water, because you won't acknowledge that the thorax was designed as the premier blaster/drone boat, that it's very fragile in this role without the 1600mm plate, but very effective in the right hands.
Agnar Koladrov Gallente Hurricane Corporation	Posted - 2005.08.25 12:51:00 - [487] Originally by: Garreck I guess it's also not your fault that this was obviously the role for which it was intended. You're speaking from ignorance again. Try to put together a viable railgun setup on a thorax, leaving out the 1600mm plate option (yes, 150mm IIs are a pretty viable rail setup, but my whole argument is that the 1600mm plate needs sorted out.) You'll quickly find that it cannot effectively fit rails and maintain any surviveability. Even with 200mm rails, it's simply not viable. If you don`t mind me saying, no cruiser can fit max top end med weapons and have survivebility, leaves them with no pg for anything else. That is not only the problem of the Rax, it is a problem for all cruisers. ________________________________________________ -- What a Revelation! -- Where was the creativty for speed/mass/etc when the tier2 Battlecruisers were designed? Why the same for each race BC?
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.25 13:22:00 - [488] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 25/08/2005 13:33:40 Originally by: Garreck It is the only short-range cruiser where long-range variants are not viable. I beg to differ. The stabber has more trouble fitting 4 650mm artillery than the thorax to fit 200mm railguns. I could go on, but that example should be enough as you said "the only": one counter-example is enough to defeat this affirmation. Or, maybe, did you mean that it is the only tier 3 short-range cruiser where long-range variants are not viable. As far as i can tell, the rupture and moa are long range cruisers, so you are only comparing the thorax to the maller. How exactly is that of any relevance ? Originally by: Garreck I guess it's also not your fault that this was obviously the role for which it was intended. You're speaking from ignorance again. Try to put together a viable railgun setup on a thorax, leaving out the 1600mm plate option (yes, 150mm IIs are a pretty viable rail setup, but my whole argument is that the 1600mm plate needs sorted out.) You'll quickly find that it cannot effectively fit rails and maintain any surviveability. Even with 200mm rails, it's simply not viable. I won't comment the ignorance statement again, but i feel that you should refrain from personal insults. Fitting 650mm artillery to a stabber is hard because it is not what it was intended to do, which is fine. Fitting blasters on a moa doesn't work either (irrelevant bonus, low speed and agility, heavy mass) because it is not what it was intended to be. Fitting 200mm rails on a thorax is hard, because that is not what it was intended to be. This is a good and nobody is challenging that. I say that the thorax is a blaster boat, with drones as a secondary weapon. As the moa is a railboat, with missiles as a secondary weapon. You say that the thorax is a close range damage boat, and i'm even going to say that i agree with that. Now, please answer my question: You tell that as the thorax has to close the range to a long range cruiser, it need the firepower (of guns + drones) when it get there. How exactly do you justify that it need 8 heavy drones, and that 10 mediums drones are not enough. That is the only question that is relevant here, as i never mentionned plate or small guns. Originally by: Garreck 8 heavy drones don't matter for beans when an mwd-ing thorax can be gunned down by a proper cruiser in about 25 seconds. Especially if you're talking an engagement beyond 20km where it's going to take about that amount of time for the drones to even reach you. If they don't matter, why don't you want to lose them ? Originally by: Garreck So what do we do then: change the whole premise of the Thorax? Give it more grid and less drones and let the maller come up as the next overpowered 1600mm cruiser? The 1600mm plate thorax is powerfull. The 1600mm plate rupture is powerfull. The 1600mm plate moa is powerfull. The 1600mm plate maller is powerfull. If 1600mm plate need to be nerfed, something that i never said - nor did i say the opposite, so be it. But, and that is the exact problem that is mentionned since the very beginning of this thread, only the plate-rax is versatile (with the same fitting) to an overpowered point. You keep ignoring this, whereas this is the main point. And, to be honest, with 10 mediums drones the plate-thorax would still be a far more versatile and efficient plate-cruiser than the maller so this point is moot. (continued) Edit: missing tag. In Rust We Trust
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.25 13:22:00 - [489] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 25/08/2005 13:32:03 Originally by: Garreck That's nonsensical. Your challenge doesn't hold water, because you won't acknowledge that the thorax was designed as the premier blaster/drone boat, that it's very fragile in this role without the 1600mm plate, but very effective in the right hands. ok. It is very effective in the right hand. Whatever, don't you see that every ship in this game should be very effective in the right hand ? I'm sorry but i can't see the relevance of this. Now, you want all the argument resolving around a thorax without plate. That is equivalent to say: "CCP said that they would nerf the 1600mm plates tomorrow so that they are not worth fitting." You then want me to accept that thorax + any gun + 8 heavy drones is not overpowered. I'll give you the same argument, based on the way you want balance in this game to be considered: "1 vs 1, same class vs same class, nobody ever warp out". How is any close-range non-plated cruiser supposed to beat the thorax ? You already told me how a long range cruiser "in your 1 vs 1 dreamworld" would kill the non-plated thorax. How is a short range, non plated cruiser, supposed to do ? It cannot, and you'll say that it is normal because the thorax is the ultimate close range cruiser. Well, i told you, it is so ultimate that it totally rules out any possibility of fitting any cruiser for close range. Now, and i'm even going further, long range cruisers are not so viable in pvp because they would sit at the optimal of battleships. Hence, your passion to keep the thorax as it is because we need cruisers on the battlefield, don't we is in fact contributing a lot to removing cruisers (othr cruisers, might i add) from the battlefield. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.25 13:41:00 - [490] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Also, god, if you'd read any of my bazillion other threads, you'd know that a Thorax, approaching with a MWD and a 1600mm plate, can take thousands of points of damage on the approach, but once it's in under the enemy's guns and letting loose with its 253 DPS, it doesn't matter much. Which is why the plate issue for all ships needs to be addressed, not the drones issue for the thorax. Nerfing the plates nerf ALL Cruisers. Nerfing the drone bay on the thorax brings the thorax back in line with the tier 3 cruisers. How can you be so blind? You want to keep something that even the DEVs wanted to take away at one point because they saw a problem and said they would revisit it when it became a bigger problem. Now it is a blatent problem because drones do superior damage and its not just because of plates. You forget MANY people use Webs for PvP and Webs + Drones = better than any small or medium rack of guns. Plates put put ALL combat capable cruisers into large armor range NOT just the thorax. You just want your cake. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Vee Bot	Posted - 2005.08.25 13:47:00 - [491] Is restricing tech I cruisers to light and medium drones only an option? Ten mediums does nice dmg, and not too over the top for cruisers. ------------------ Remember that your Unique, like everyone else.
Agnar Koladrov Gallente Hurricane Corporation	Posted - 2005.08.25 13:50:00 - [492] Why restrict cruiser to med/light drones only? Heavies are ok on there own, but like the word implies, they are heavy = more mass. So it is more then logical to say you can only take very few heavies in a cruisers dronebay. That would even up on med and light drones in firepower. ________________________________________________ -- What a Revelation! -- Where was the creativty for speed/mass/etc when the tier2 Battlecruisers were designed? Why the same for each race BC?
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.25 14:02:00 - [493] Edited by: j0sephine on 25/08/2005 14:03:09 Out of curiosity... would anyone involved in the thread mind spending some time on the test server, checking how: * Thorax with 800mm plate performs against other cruisers also limited to 800mm plate tops..? * Thorax with 4 heavy drones tops performs against other cruisers using any equipment available nowadays * Thorax with anything between say 4-6 drones and 800mm plate performs against other cruisers limited to 800mm armour * Thorax limited to medium drones and different plate variants performs against other cruisers limited in similar manner would kind of make it easier to see what kind of impact the suggested changes (nerf the plate, nerf the drone bay, nerf them all and fly just Ibises etc) ... would have... slightly more practical than just arguing about it on the forum o.O;
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.25 14:10:00 - [494] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 25/08/2005 14:20:14 Originally by: j0sephine would anyone involved in the thread mind spending some time on the test server ... slightly more practical than just arguing about it on the forum o.O; Good idea, j0sephine. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Edit: removed useless comment. In Rust We Trust
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2005.08.25 14:14:00 - [495] Oh thats so nice, you little crybabies nerfed the entire Caldari line and now you are after Gallente lol. Ok lets do it then just because we must all be Ammar. When you remove rof from gankgeddon and zealot, when you fix the silly 3000 (from 1 single gun lol) dmg of the projectiles, when you fix the silly claw AF (yes AF if it can equip full rack of guns and plate to have 1100 hp armour) when you gimp the immortal armour tank of the apoc, in fact when you actually make shield tank as cap efficient as armour tanking (or close), when you give caldari a reward for training HAC instead of the ridicule of HAC trying to ouitsnipe BS with 4 M turrets against 6-8 L turrets, when you make a Moa as durable as a maller and -finally- when you fix the missles so that drones become again a second rate anti frig weapon, theeeeeen come back here to argue your case. Until then LOCK THIS SILLY THREAD. [ranting IS nice after all :) ] Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.25 14:16:00 - [496] Edited by: j0sephine on 25/08/2005 14:17:21 edit: no longer applies ^^;;
Vee Bot	Posted - 2005.08.25 14:55:00 - [497] Originally by: Agnar Koladrov Why restrict cruiser to med/light drones only? Heavies are ok on there own, but like the word implies, they are heavy = more mass. So it is more then logical to say you can only take very few heavies in a cruisers dronebay. That would even up on med and light drones in firepower. Yeah true i guess, but when a thorax parks next to a tempest or appoc or something im wondering how the heck the far smaller ship can carry two more of the heavyest drone type, a thorax holds 8 the don of all drone boats holds 15 of the same tyoe of drones. Do the other cruisers get half of a battle ships main weapon plus there normal weapon slots..... Well that was my thinking... 4 heavys or 10 mediums sounds like the same outcome tho, you have a piont. ------------------ Remember that your Unique, like everyone else.
Zophi	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:01:00 - [498] OK, that was a long read getting here. I fly Thorax and Domi usually. But I cant help laugh everytime someone says that THoraxes own battleships. OK, I'll pit my thorax against my Domi with thier current setup: Ships : Thorax - Domi Armor : 4500 (3x hardners) - 20000 (4x hardners) Drones : 8 heavy (no spares) - 15 heavy (15 spares) Guns : 5 150mm rails - 4 x 425mm rails (or 6x electron blasters) Top Speed : 700 m/s (MWD) - 300 m/s (MWD) Other : Web/Scramb - Web/Scram/ECM Now, lets see. That looks like one DEAD Thorax if he picks that battle. If other battleships cant pawn the Thorax just as much, well then we should start a "Nerf the Dominix" topic. Thorax is uber vs. frigs. Good vs. Cruisers, but pretty lame vs. battleships. Just like it should be. But it all relies on the drones. And drones tend to DIE. Not funny in 0.0 hostile space with may jumps to a friendly port. In empire or for defence though, its the cruiser of choise. Paper, rock, siccors. I love EvE. --- "Why can't we all just get along?"
Zophi TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:01:00 - [499] OK, that was a long read getting here. I fly Thorax and Domi usually. But I cant help laugh everytime someone says that THoraxes own battleships. OK, I'll pit my thorax against my Domi with thier current setup: Ships : Thorax - Domi Armor : 4500 (3x hardners) - 20000 (4x hardners) Drones : 8 heavy (no spares) - 15 heavy (15 spares) Guns : 5 150mm rails - 4 x 425mm rails (or 6x electron blasters) Top Speed : 700 m/s (MWD) - 300 m/s (MWD) Other : Web/Scramb - Web/Scram/ECM Now, lets see. That looks like one DEAD Thorax if he picks that battle. If other battleships cant pawn the Thorax just as much, well then we should start a "Nerf the Dominix" topic. Thorax is uber vs. frigs. Good vs. Cruisers, but pretty lame vs. battleships. Just like it should be. But it all relies on the drones. And drones tend to DIE. Not funny in 0.0 hostile space with may jumps to a friendly port. In empire or for defence though, its the cruiser of choise. Paper, rock, siccors. I love EvE. --- "Why can't we all just get along?"
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:14:00 - [500] Originally by: Crellion Oh thats so nice, you little crybabies nerfed the entire Caldari line and now you are after Gallente lol. Ok lets do it then just because we must all be Ammar. When you remove rof from gankgeddon and zealot, when you fix the silly 3000 (from 1 single gun lol) dmg of the projectiles, when you fix the silly claw AF (yes AF if it can equip full rack of guns and plate to have 1100 hp armour) when you gimp the immortal armour tank of the apoc, in fact when you actually make shield tank as cap efficient as armour tanking (or close), when you give caldari a reward for training HAC instead of the ridicule of HAC trying to ouitsnipe BS with 4 M turrets against 6-8 L turrets, when you make a Moa as durable as a maller and -finally- when you fix the missles so that drones become again a second rate anti frig weapon, theeeeeen come back here to argue your case. Until then LOCK THIS SILLY THREAD. [ranting IS nice after all :) ] Sorry but your absolutely wrong. As long as damage types, differences in resistances, slot layouts, sig radius, speed and weapon sizes vary there will NEVER be like ships in EVE. Glaring Imbalances such as the Thorax Drone bay put a toolset the mass userbase to not worry about other ship classes because they can achieve Nirvana on one ship. It can tank, it can output any damage type, it can go gank, it can embrace its bonuses OR absolutely never need them. It can take ships like Covert Ops and make it the dynamic DUO in a way a megathron seems second class. It has little weakness. Large SmartBombs and certain configs CAN manage to exploit its weaknesses but those can also utterly annialate the other cruisers at the same time. Try harder. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:14:00 - [501] Originally by: Crellion Oh thats so nice, you little crybabies nerfed the entire Caldari line and now you are after Gallente lol. Ok lets do it then just because we must all be Ammar. When you remove rof from gankgeddon and zealot, when you fix the silly 3000 (from 1 single gun lol) dmg of the projectiles, when you fix the silly claw AF (yes AF if it can equip full rack of guns and plate to have 1100 hp armour) when you gimp the immortal armour tank of the apoc, in fact when you actually make shield tank as cap efficient as armour tanking (or close), when you give caldari a reward for training HAC instead of the ridicule of HAC trying to ouitsnipe BS with 4 M turrets against 6-8 L turrets, when you make a Moa as durable as a maller and -finally- when you fix the missles so that drones become again a second rate anti frig weapon, theeeeeen come back here to argue your case. Until then LOCK THIS SILLY THREAD. [ranting IS nice after all :) ] Sorry but your absolutely wrong. As long as damage types, differences in resistances, slot layouts, sig radius, speed and weapon sizes vary there will NEVER be like ships in EVE. Glaring Imbalances such as the Thorax Drone bay put a toolset the mass userbase to not worry about other ship classes because they can achieve Nirvana on one ship. It can tank, it can output any damage type, it can go gank, it can embrace its bonuses OR absolutely never need them. It can take ships like Covert Ops and make it the dynamic DUO in a way a megathron seems second class. It has little weakness. Large SmartBombs and certain configs CAN manage to exploit its weaknesses but those can also utterly annialate the other cruisers at the same time. Try harder. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:19:00 - [502] Originally by: Zophi OK, that was a long read getting here. I fly Thorax and Domi usually. But I cant help laugh everytime someone says that THoraxes own battleships. OK, I'll pit my thorax against my Domi with thier current setup: Ships : Thorax - Domi Armor : 4500 (3x hardners) - 20000 (4x hardners) Drones : 8 heavy (no spares) - 15 heavy (15 spares) Guns : 5 150mm rails - 4 x 425mm rails (or 6x electron blasters) Top Speed : 700 m/s (MWD) - 300 m/s (MWD) Other : Web/Scramb - Web/Scram/ECM Now, lets see. That looks like one DEAD Thorax if he picks that battle. If other battleships cant pawn the Thorax just as much, well then we should start a "Nerf the Dominix" topic. Thorax is uber vs. frigs. Good vs. Cruisers, but pretty lame vs. battleships. Just like it should be. But it all relies on the drones. And drones tend to DIE. Not funny in 0.0 hostile space with may jumps to a friendly port. In empire or for defence though, its the cruiser of choise. Paper, rock, siccors. I love EvE. It has already been stated in this thread that Dominix is the better ship. As for the rest of your post... you don't get out much do you? I am in Sansha space and all i see are inties, ACs and Thoraxes with the rare occasion of a Apoc or Rupture. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:19:00 - [503] Originally by: Zophi OK, that was a long read getting here. I fly Thorax and Domi usually. But I cant help laugh everytime someone says that THoraxes own battleships. OK, I'll pit my thorax against my Domi with thier current setup: Ships : Thorax - Domi Armor : 4500 (3x hardners) - 20000 (4x hardners) Drones : 8 heavy (no spares) - 15 heavy (15 spares) Guns : 5 150mm rails - 4 x 425mm rails (or 6x electron blasters) Top Speed : 700 m/s (MWD) - 300 m/s (MWD) Other : Web/Scramb - Web/Scram/ECM Now, lets see. That looks like one DEAD Thorax if he picks that battle. If other battleships cant pawn the Thorax just as much, well then we should start a "Nerf the Dominix" topic. Thorax is uber vs. frigs. Good vs. Cruisers, but pretty lame vs. battleships. Just like it should be. But it all relies on the drones. And drones tend to DIE. Not funny in 0.0 hostile space with may jumps to a friendly port. In empire or for defence though, its the cruiser of choise. Paper, rock, siccors. I love EvE. It has already been stated in this thread that Dominix is the better ship. As for the rest of your post... you don't get out much do you? I am in Sansha space and all i see are inties, ACs and Thoraxes with the rare occasion of a Apoc or Rupture. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Crellion	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:21:00 - [504] Edited by: Crellion on 25/08/2005 15:23:47 Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Crellion Oh thats so nice, you little crybabies nerfed the entire Caldari line and now you are after Gallente lol. Ok lets do it then just because we must all be Ammar. When you remove rof from gankgeddon and zealot, when you fix the silly 3000 (from 1 single gun lol) dmg of the projectiles, when you fix the silly claw AF (yes AF if it can equip full rack of guns and plate to have 1100 hp armour) when you gimp the immortal armour tank of the apoc, in fact when you actually make shield tank as cap efficient as armour tanking (or close), when you give caldari a reward for training HAC instead of the ridicule of HAC trying to ouitsnipe BS with 4 M turrets against 6-8 L turrets, when you make a Moa as durable as a maller and -finally- when you fix the missles so that drones become again a second rate anti frig weapon, theeeeeen come back here to argue your case. Until then LOCK THIS SILLY THREAD. [ranting IS nice after all :) ] Sorry but your absolutely wrong. As long as damage types, differences in resistances, slot layouts, sig radius, speed and weapon sizes vary there will NEVER be like ships in EVE. Glaring Imbalances such as the Thorax Drone bay put a toolset the mass userbase to not worry about other ship classes because they can achieve Nirvana on one ship. It can tank, it can output any damage type, it can go gank, it can embrace its bonuses OR absolutely never need them. It can take ships like Covert Ops and make it the dynamic DUO in a way a megathron seems second class. It has little weakness. Large SmartBombs and certain configs CAN manage to exploit its weaknesses but those can also utterly annialate the other cruisers at the same time. Try harder. I dont think you understood my comment I have never flown a Thorax (simply because everybody else does) I once owned one for about 20 mins and then took it 3 systems away and sold it. What I meant was that it is just one of the many ships that have been made uber compared to others that have been nerfed to hell and back. I simply think its silly to go on nerfing and I would very much rather we fix the ships that are now useless. For example bolster the dmg output of the poor Eagle.
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:21:00 - [505] Edited by: Crellion on 25/08/2005 15:23:47 Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Crellion Oh thats so nice, you little crybabies nerfed the entire Caldari line and now you are after Gallente lol. Ok lets do it then just because we must all be Ammar. When you remove rof from gankgeddon and zealot, when you fix the silly 3000 (from 1 single gun lol) dmg of the projectiles, when you fix the silly claw AF (yes AF if it can equip full rack of guns and plate to have 1100 hp armour) when you gimp the immortal armour tank of the apoc, in fact when you actually make shield tank as cap efficient as armour tanking (or close), when you give caldari a reward for training HAC instead of the ridicule of HAC trying to ouitsnipe BS with 4 M turrets against 6-8 L turrets, when you make a Moa as durable as a maller and -finally- when you fix the missles so that drones become again a second rate anti frig weapon, theeeeeen come back here to argue your case. Until then LOCK THIS SILLY THREAD. [ranting IS nice after all :) ] Sorry but your absolutely wrong. As long as damage types, differences in resistances, slot layouts, sig radius, speed and weapon sizes vary there will NEVER be like ships in EVE. Glaring Imbalances such as the Thorax Drone bay put a toolset the mass userbase to not worry about other ship classes because they can achieve Nirvana on one ship. It can tank, it can output any damage type, it can go gank, it can embrace its bonuses OR absolutely never need them. It can take ships like Covert Ops and make it the dynamic DUO in a way a megathron seems second class. It has little weakness. Large SmartBombs and certain configs CAN manage to exploit its weaknesses but those can also utterly annialate the other cruisers at the same time. Try harder. I dont think you understood my comment I have never flown a Thorax (simply because everybody else does) I once owned one for about 20 mins and then took it 3 systems away and sold it. What I meant was that it is just one of the many ships that have been made uber compared to others that have been nerfed to hell and back. I simply think its silly to go on nerfing and I would very much rather we fix the ships that are now useless. For example bolster the dmg output of the poor Eagle. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Muad 'dib	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:36:00 - [506] Edited by: Muad ''dib on 25/08/2005 17:51:48 Wow big thread just for a little thorax. Well while reading through this i remeber seeing some1 quote that 8 heavy drones does around 170 dps. Well just for the record my rupture with 4x gyro IIs and 4x 720mm IIs does 200 dps. So any argument against the raxes drone bay nerf is null and void - Rax is overpowered and its the drone bay that does it. pro Rupture pilot with 8 mil in gunnery using ranged weapons 200 dps noob Thorax pilot with 800k in drones using just heavy drones 170 dps edit: apparently thats with a few level 5s, so maybee more than 800k sp... still faaar less and not counting turrets. Its like the old raven when it comes to SP vs. output
Muad 'dib Caldari Smoking Hillbillys The Volition Cult	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:36:00 - [507] Edited by: Muad ''dib on 25/08/2005 17:51:48 Wow big thread just for a little thorax. Well while reading through this i remeber seeing some1 quote that 8 heavy drones does around 170 dps. Well just for the record my rupture with 4x gyro IIs and 4x 720mm IIs does 200 dps. So any argument against the raxes drone bay nerf is null and void - Rax is overpowered and its the drone bay that does it. pro Rupture pilot with 8 mil in gunnery using ranged weapons 200 dps noob Thorax pilot with 800k in drones using just heavy drones 170 dps edit: apparently thats with a few level 5s, so maybee more than 800k sp... still faaar less and not counting turrets. Its like the old raven when it comes to SP vs. output
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:39:00 - [508] Talking about drones loss in 0.0, in fact we need complex solution. Now the drone bay is the only parameter which affects the drone power of the ship, and you can't give ppl more drone bay because they wont use it for spare drones, but for bigger ones. (offtopic here is that heavy drones are best choice, which is not balanced, but anyway) I think i solution could be a complex system: Ships get drone bay AND a parameter called "Drone Control" which is some N points To contorl 1 light drone in space takes 1 Dron Control point of a ship, med is 5 points, heavy is 10. Numbers for instance Then you can have a ship with drone bay of 300m3, but low Drone Control, so you will MAKE SURE that this ship will be using only light drones. At the same time you can make drone ships with really huge drone bay allowing them to have all range of drones and spares for lost ones, yet it will be completelty separated from the number of drones in a space at a given time You can have a mod whih will give percentage bonus to Drone Control, which will give APPROPRIATE bonus to all ships, because if you have bonus +1 drones per level, like vexor has, its nothing like +1 drones per level for say thorax, because drone bay is in fact the limiting factor, and if its not, +1 drone will always be the "+1 heavy one". If you have a lot of drone space but limited Drone Contorol you can in fact make drones VERY different, and drone useds wont whine "heavy drones can't hit moon now", because they will have option to have different sets of drones in a bay. Now 99% of the time drone bays are fitted with one biggest set of drones that fit just a thought
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:39:00 - [509] Talking about drones loss in 0.0, in fact we need complex solution. Now the drone bay is the only parameter which affects the drone power of the ship, and you can't give ppl more drone bay because they wont use it for spare drones, but for bigger ones. (offtopic here is that heavy drones are best choice, which is not balanced, but anyway) I think i solution could be a complex system: Ships get drone bay AND a parameter called "Drone Control" which is some N points To contorl 1 light drone in space takes 1 Dron Control point of a ship, med is 5 points, heavy is 10. Numbers for instance Then you can have a ship with drone bay of 300m3, but low Drone Control, so you will MAKE SURE that this ship will be using only light drones. At the same time you can make drone ships with really huge drone bay allowing them to have all range of drones and spares for lost ones, yet it will be completelty separated from the number of drones in a space at a given time You can have a mod whih will give percentage bonus to Drone Control, which will give APPROPRIATE bonus to all ships, because if you have bonus +1 drones per level, like vexor has, its nothing like +1 drones per level for say thorax, because drone bay is in fact the limiting factor, and if its not, +1 drone will always be the "+1 heavy one". If you have a lot of drone space but limited Drone Contorol you can in fact make drones VERY different, and drone useds wont whine "heavy drones can't hit moon now", because they will have option to have different sets of drones in a bay. Now 99% of the time drone bays are fitted with one biggest set of drones that fit just a thought
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.25 15:41:00 - [510] Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 25/08/2005 15:41:37

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