EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3

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Ante DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.24 06:33:00 - [301] Originally by: j0sephine Uhmm... * light electron blaster, skills maxed, no ship bonus: 13.84 dps * heavy electron blaster, skills maxed, Thorax bonus: 23.33 dps if ~70% more damage is 'little advantage' then it's kinda scary to think what a 'fair advantage' would be... :/ People generally complain about hybrid turrets lacking in general so feel free to apply this across the board: light electron blaster: 4 power grid requirement heavy electron blaster: 100 power grid requirement That 70% damage increase is suddenly devalued when you consider the plethora of fitting options (read: battleship plate) opened up to a thorax pilot, shockingly, because they can still do a huge amount of damage through drones. The damage increase is not worth the huge power grid requirement. As a side point it's interesting that Caldari cruiser weapons only use 100 grid all 'round when the weakest cruiser blaster uses the same and has ~1/50th the range for totallynotworthit damage.
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.08.24 06:47:00 - [302] Originally by: Ante Originally by: j0sephine Uhmm... * light electron blaster, skills maxed, no ship bonus: 13.84 dps * heavy electron blaster, skills maxed, Thorax bonus: 23.33 dps if ~70% more damage is 'little advantage' then it's kinda scary to think what a 'fair advantage' would be... :/ and the guns you should be looking at are the tech 2 light neutrons everyone runs on there rax, you'll find there almost identical dps to Heavy Electrons People generally complain about hybrid turrets lacking in general so feel free to apply this across the board: light electron blaster: 4 power grid requirement heavy electron blaster: 100 power grid requirement That 70% damage increase is suddenly devalued when you consider the plethora of fitting options (read: battleship plate) opened up to a thorax pilot, shockingly, because they can still do a huge amount of damage through drones. The damage increase is not worth the huge power grid requirement. As a side point it's interesting that Caldari cruiser weapons only use 100 grid all 'round when the weakest cruiser blaster uses the same and has ~1/50th the range for totallynotworthit damage. need a sig? Gallery Contact me for more information
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.08.24 06:47:00 - [303] Originally by: Ante Originally by: j0sephine Uhmm... * light electron blaster, skills maxed, no ship bonus: 13.84 dps * heavy electron blaster, skills maxed, Thorax bonus: 23.33 dps if ~70% more damage is 'little advantage' then it's kinda scary to think what a 'fair advantage' would be... :/ and the guns you should be looking at are the tech 2 light neutrons everyone runs on there rax, you'll find there almost identical dps to Heavy Electrons People generally complain about hybrid turrets lacking in general so feel free to apply this across the board: light electron blaster: 4 power grid requirement heavy electron blaster: 100 power grid requirement That 70% damage increase is suddenly devalued when you consider the plethora of fitting options (read: battleship plate) opened up to a thorax pilot, shockingly, because they can still do a huge amount of damage through drones. The damage increase is not worth the huge power grid requirement. As a side point it's interesting that Caldari cruiser weapons only use 100 grid all 'round when the weakest cruiser blaster uses the same and has ~1/50th the range for totallynotworthit damage.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.24 08:43:00 - [304] Originally by: Fierce Deity Naughty i thought you were leaving this topic to play high and mighty 3 times over, and 2 pages back? Your still posting, just in case you didn't realise. I replied to people who replied to the answers i gave before. If that bothers you don't read the topic. Keep your sarcasm for your autocritic, you might need it. Originally by: Fierce Deity You can kill a Rax easy, there is many ways to do it with many other ships. Your argument is that you have to gimp yourself against other ships in order to kill a rax? Well i'm sorry you have to (god forbid) use a different set up to kill a different kind of ship. That is exactly the point. The thorax (plate + long range frig gun + heavy drones) with the same fitting is as effective against the smallest targets than the biggest targets. That is exactly what is said being wrong from the start of the thread. No other cruiser can do that, no other cruiser should be able to do that, and this is the exact problem. I don't care about needing to gimp my setup, especially since i can also fly the thorax, i care about the fact that the thorax doesn't have to. By the way, if i was only interested in flying a ship with a "i win" setup, i would be defending it against facts and odds as you are doing. Thus, keep the confusion in your mind if you want but get it out of this thread. Originally by: Fierce Deity I was under a huge misconception that a ship that is set up different from another ship of the same class was diversity (diversity=different no?). Oh how wrong i was, you want to nerf all other ships so you don't have to go back to your hanger once and a while and change your set up. Ok, why don't we just do away with all the mods and have all ships have built in set ups, then your prolem would be solved. See above, it is hilarious that your main argument against mine is exactly mine. You are defending something and its opposite, I'm voiceless. Originally by: Fierce Deity All cruisers tbo suck, they are not usful in a fleet engagment, unless your in a bb and wanna jam some targets maybe. Now we have a cruiser that isn't completely usless, and you wanna wack the cruiser back down to the level of the rest so they are all usless again. If that is your idea of balanced, then yes please nerf the thorax to make all cruisers equally usless. Or, and i'm going on a limb here, we could make all the cruisers on par with the rax and they would all be usfull. Hmm, usless, or usfull? it's a toughy i know. Ok, let me explains this to you with easy words and easy sentences. What the thorax has is too much versatility, granted especially by the drone bay. It has an extreme damage output thanks to it. The problem with cruisers is that they are not survivable enough: not enough speed, agility, hitpoints, too big signature, inability to tank outside of a plated setup. Increasing their damage output to make them on par with the thorax isn't going to make them more survivable: they are even going to die faster as the overall damage output will be higher. How can you defend such insanity for gods sake! Originally by: Fierce Deity And for god's sakes wat is this bs sized gun that the thorax can mount? A 425 rail? mega electron blaster? what? because you keep referring the the thorax mounting a bs sized gun then why shouldn't a maller fit mega pulses? If you referr to heavy drones, heavy drones are not a bs gun. It says no where that heavy drones are bs guns. Is it because it says heavy beside it? I donno if you noticed but all cruiser sized weapons say heavy beside it e.g. heavy launcher, heavy electron blaster ect... Heavy drones are battleship weapons, medium pulse are frigate weapons. Using terminology to prove your points, in a discussion about balance, doesn't make you look wise. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.24 08:43:00 - [305] Originally by: Fierce Deity Naughty i thought you were leaving this topic to play high and mighty 3 times over, and 2 pages back? Your still posting, just in case you didn't realise. I replied to people who replied to the answers i gave before. If that bothers you don't read the topic. Keep your sarcasm for your autocritic, you might need it. Originally by: Fierce Deity You can kill a Rax easy, there is many ways to do it with many other ships. Your argument is that you have to gimp yourself against other ships in order to kill a rax? Well i'm sorry you have to (god forbid) use a different set up to kill a different kind of ship. That is exactly the point. The thorax (plate + long range frig gun + heavy drones) with the same fitting is as effective against the smallest targets than the biggest targets. That is exactly what is said being wrong from the start of the thread. No other cruiser can do that, no other cruiser should be able to do that, and this is the exact problem. I don't care about needing to gimp my setup, especially since i can also fly the thorax, i care about the fact that the thorax doesn't have to. By the way, if i was only interested in flying a ship with a "i win" setup, i would be defending it against facts and odds as you are doing. Thus, keep the confusion in your mind if you want but get it out of this thread. Originally by: Fierce Deity I was under a huge misconception that a ship that is set up different from another ship of the same class was diversity (diversity=different no?). Oh how wrong i was, you want to nerf all other ships so you don't have to go back to your hanger once and a while and change your set up. Ok, why don't we just do away with all the mods and have all ships have built in set ups, then your prolem would be solved. See above, it is hilarious that your main argument against mine is exactly mine. You are defending something and its opposite, I'm voiceless. Originally by: Fierce Deity All cruisers tbo suck, they are not usful in a fleet engagment, unless your in a bb and wanna jam some targets maybe. Now we have a cruiser that isn't completely usless, and you wanna wack the cruiser back down to the level of the rest so they are all usless again. If that is your idea of balanced, then yes please nerf the thorax to make all cruisers equally usless. Or, and i'm going on a limb here, we could make all the cruisers on par with the rax and they would all be usfull. Hmm, usless, or usfull? it's a toughy i know. Ok, let me explains this to you with easy words and easy sentences. What the thorax has is too much versatility, granted especially by the drone bay. It has an extreme damage output thanks to it. The problem with cruisers is that they are not survivable enough: not enough speed, agility, hitpoints, too big signature, inability to tank outside of a plated setup. Increasing their damage output to make them on par with the thorax isn't going to make them more survivable: they are even going to die faster as the overall damage output will be higher. How can you defend such insanity for gods sake! Originally by: Fierce Deity And for god's sakes wat is this bs sized gun that the thorax can mount? A 425 rail? mega electron blaster? what? because you keep referring the the thorax mounting a bs sized gun then why shouldn't a maller fit mega pulses? If you referr to heavy drones, heavy drones are not a bs gun. It says no where that heavy drones are bs guns. Is it because it says heavy beside it? I donno if you noticed but all cruiser sized weapons say heavy beside it e.g. heavy launcher, heavy electron blaster ect... Heavy drones are battleship weapons, medium pulse are frigate weapons. Using terminology to prove your points, in a discussion about balance, doesn't make you look wise. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.24 08:48:00 - [306] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 24/08/2005 08:48:40 Originally by: Fidelis Deus A cerebus can pump out the same damage at an extreme range and be able to run when the going gets tought. The Thorax is only able to pump out that damage at extreme close range. I agree perfectly with the person two posts above me - that the thorax is what all cruisers should be, a capable combat vessel that is deadly in skilled hands. I refuted this point countless time, don't fit small blasters on a plated thorax, fit long range frig guns and you increase you versatility much more than you lose in damage output. Every plated cruisers fit long range frigate guns (or the smallest small range cruiser gun) so it's not like you have to do something other cruisers don't have to. Why give the thorax an advantage that no other cruiser has, as it doesn't have any more trade-off than any other cruiser ? Beside, why give other cruisers something that would make them completely overpowered against every other class. Plated cruisers with long range frig guns are already the bane of t1 and t2 frigates alike, you people who think that "don't nerf the rax, boost the others" is going to solve all problems are wrong, for all the reasons i already mentionned. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.24 08:48:00 - [307] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 24/08/2005 08:48:40 Originally by: Fidelis Deus A cerebus can pump out the same damage at an extreme range and be able to run when the going gets tought. The Thorax is only able to pump out that damage at extreme close range. I agree perfectly with the person two posts above me - that the thorax is what all cruisers should be, a capable combat vessel that is deadly in skilled hands. I refuted this point countless time, don't fit small blasters on a plated thorax, fit long range frig guns and you increase you versatility much more than you lose in damage output. Every plated cruisers fit long range frigate guns (or the smallest small range cruiser gun) so it's not like you have to do something other cruisers don't have to. Why give the thorax an advantage that no other cruiser has, as it doesn't have any more trade-off than any other cruiser ? Beside, why give other cruisers something that would make them completely overpowered against every other class. Plated cruisers with long range frig guns are already the bane of t1 and t2 frigates alike, you people who think that "don't nerf the rax, boost the others" is going to solve all problems are wrong, for all the reasons i already mentionned. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Okoru	Posted - 2005.08.24 09:06:00 - [308] I agree with what Lorth says. All cruisers seem to need a boost, brining the thorax's bay down from 200 to 100 would probably even most of the odds, and like many other people have said before, 10 medium drones is nothing to laugh at either. One thing that could also used changing is the use of oversized plates. Giving a cruiser as much armor as a bs is a little bit absurd imo. Just how I'm seeing it. --- What I say has nothing to do with my corp.
Okoru Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2005.08.24 09:06:00 - [309] I agree with what Lorth says. All cruisers seem to need a boost, brining the thorax's bay down from 200 to 100 would probably even most of the odds, and like many other people have said before, 10 medium drones is nothing to laugh at either. One thing that could also used changing is the use of oversized plates. Giving a cruiser as much armor as a bs is a little bit absurd imo. Just how I'm seeing it. Originally by: Tuxford Warp Core Stabilizers now give penalty to targeting range and scan resolution, about 50% for tech 1 FTW!!!
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.24 09:08:00 - [310] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 24/08/2005 09:09:44 Edited by: Naughty Boy on 24/08/2005 09:09:02 Originally by: Ravenge But, in doing so can we nerf the following ships as well, to bring them in line. Maller - This ship can beat a thorax, so its clearly overpowered. Do you people cannot realise that the "1 VS 1 ship of the same class, without warp-out" scenario is no the kind of reasoning that decide the game balance ? Originally by: Ravenge All Interceptors - All of these are far to overpowered as they can beat all ships bigger then them in groups and in some cases solo. They are designed to dodge large weapons, they die to small weapons. You can say that "claws kill assault frigates" and "taranis kills destroyers", but those are cases of short range ships that can avoid being hit by messing the tracking of long range guns. An autocannon claw is going to die to an autocannon trasher, and an artillery claw is going to die to an artillery trasher. This is working as intended. Originally by: Ravenge All Assault Frigs - By the logic found here in this thread, because AF's can beat cruisers solo they are far too over powered.. more so the gisti harpy.. (either nerf the ship or change it so it can't fit such an overpowered item.) So, did you decide that by your own, or did you get help ? Faction loot is designed to be inbalanced, that is not something i like but that is the way it is, don't get me starting a crusade against that already. As for assault frigates killin cruisers, i don't know if it is intended or not. All i can say is that none of my cruiser setup should die to a lone assault frigates: plate + frig guns do take care of that possibility. Originally by: Ravenge The Arbitrator - It makes no sence that this ship has a drone bay of 150, being as the Gallente are supposed to be the main drone race. The Typhoon's drone bay - thats far too big. Every race but the gallente has a missile frigate, even if missiles are a caldari speciality. Why can't the amarr have a ship similar to the vexor ? By the way, i would use a vexor over an arbitrator any day, so remove the arbitrator drone bonus and drone bay, and make it a ship worth flying if that bother you. As for the typhoon being overpowered, just, lol. Originally by: Ravenge See its easy to spot what ships are overpowered if you go looking for it, it seems that its only in the last two months that someone lost his ship to a plated rax, and is crying about it. I can fly the thorax, and fit my bs in order not to die to a plated cruiser. Why would i care then ? Originally by: Ravenge The problem isn't the drone bay its the oversized plate. (tbh, this cry for nerfing the thorax has come about since the missle patch.) Wrong, and wrong. I have already replied several time to this. All cruiser fit plates and frigates guns, only the rax "fit" that many drones. All cruisers are, not fine but ok-ish, the thorax is a problem. Telling that nobody mentionned a problem with the thorax drone bay before the missile fix/nerf only show how little knowledge you have on the matter. Originally by: Ravenge Before that the rax was fine, not a peep of people wanting it nerfed.. oh and the rax did get a drone bay nerf after the cruisers got their second bonus.. iirc, it was from 2500 to 2000 (in todays figures 250 to 200) strange that back then it was deemed that the rax should be able to use at least 8 heavy drones.. See above. Originally by: Ravenge Oh and one other smaller point, whatever increases you give to the thorax.. your going to have to give them to the deimos. (but hey... i don't mind about that.) Why. Would. That. Ever. Be. Seriously. The caracal was upgraded to the cerberus and lost drone bay and turret hardpoints. The moa was upgraded to the eagle and lost its drone bay. Do you need more examples ? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.24 09:08:00 - [311] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 24/08/2005 09:09:44 Edited by: Naughty Boy on 24/08/2005 09:09:02 Originally by: Ravenge But, in doing so can we nerf the following ships as well, to bring them in line. Maller - This ship can beat a thorax, so its clearly overpowered. Do you people cannot realise that the "1 VS 1 ship of the same class, without warp-out" scenario is no the kind of reasoning that decide the game balance ? Originally by: Ravenge All Interceptors - All of these are far to overpowered as they can beat all ships bigger then them in groups and in some cases solo. They are designed to dodge large weapons, they die to small weapons. You can say that "claws kill assault frigates" and "taranis kills destroyers", but those are cases of short range ships that can avoid being hit by messing the tracking of long range guns. An autocannon claw is going to die to an autocannon trasher, and an artillery claw is going to die to an artillery trasher. This is working as intended. Originally by: Ravenge All Assault Frigs - By the logic found here in this thread, because AF's can beat cruisers solo they are far too over powered.. more so the gisti harpy.. (either nerf the ship or change it so it can't fit such an overpowered item.) So, did you decide that by your own, or did you get help ? Faction loot is designed to be inbalanced, that is not something i like but that is the way it is, don't get me starting a crusade against that already. As for assault frigates killin cruisers, i don't know if it is intended or not. All i can say is that none of my cruiser setup should die to a lone assault frigates: plate + frig guns do take care of that possibility. Originally by: Ravenge The Arbitrator - It makes no sence that this ship has a drone bay of 150, being as the Gallente are supposed to be the main drone race. The Typhoon's drone bay - thats far too big. Every race but the gallente has a missile frigate, even if missiles are a caldari speciality. Why can't the amarr have a ship similar to the vexor ? By the way, i would use a vexor over an arbitrator any day, so remove the arbitrator drone bonus and drone bay, and make it a ship worth flying if that bother you. As for the typhoon being overpowered, just, lol. Originally by: Ravenge See its easy to spot what ships are overpowered if you go looking for it, it seems that its only in the last two months that someone lost his ship to a plated rax, and is crying about it. I can fly the thorax, and fit my bs in order not to die to a plated cruiser. Why would i care then ? Originally by: Ravenge The problem isn't the drone bay its the oversized plate. (tbh, this cry for nerfing the thorax has come about since the missle patch.) Wrong, and wrong. I have already replied several time to this. All cruiser fit plates and frigates guns, only the rax "fit" that many drones. All cruisers are, not fine but ok-ish, the thorax is a problem. Telling that nobody mentionned a problem with the thorax drone bay before the missile fix/nerf only show how little knowledge you have on the matter. Originally by: Ravenge Before that the rax was fine, not a peep of people wanting it nerfed.. oh and the rax did get a drone bay nerf after the cruisers got their second bonus.. iirc, it was from 2500 to 2000 (in todays figures 250 to 200) strange that back then it was deemed that the rax should be able to use at least 8 heavy drones.. See above. Originally by: Ravenge Oh and one other smaller point, whatever increases you give to the thorax.. your going to have to give them to the deimos. (but hey... i don't mind about that.) Why. Would. That. Ever. Be. Seriously. The caracal was upgraded to the cerberus and lost drone bay and turret hardpoints. The moa was upgraded to the eagle and lost its drone bay. Do you need more examples ? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.08.24 09:14:00 - [312] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 24/08/2005 09:16:10 Cookie-cutter 1600mm plate/frigate turret setup's aside, the 8 heavy drones in addition to a decent Medium blaster setup (i.e. Medium Electron II's) turn it from a good ship to a gross ship. You can top 500 Dps thanks to 8 Ogres while still maintaining respectable armour (~1/2 Battleship armour) and repair ability (Medium II repairer). Halve the drone bay and you'd still reach over 400 Dps, that's more than ample - still sufficient to break a Dual Armour repairer Apocalypse tank solo. Take a well skilled 'cookie cutter' Tech II light neutron setup, that would still do over 300 Dps (234 for Tech II neutrons, spec. at IV, 78 for 9 hammerheads) - still enough to break an Apocalypse tank solo. There is no justification for the thorax having heavy drones. Oh and cruisers do not need anymore of a boost; there is perhaps a case for knocking the tracking of Long range Battleship Turrets down a peg, but not turning cruisers into cheap mini-Battleships, if you want that use a Battlecruiser (and no, the Brutix does not 'suck' ) (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2005.08.24 09:14:00 - [313] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 24/08/2005 09:43:13 Cookie-cutter 1600mm plate/frigate turret setup's aside, the 8 heavy drones in addition to a decent Medium blaster setup (i.e. Medium Electron II's) turn it from a good ship to a gross ship. You can top 500 Dps thanks to 8 Ogres while still maintaining respectable armour (~1/2 Battleship armour) and repair ability (Medium II repairer). Halve the drone bay and you'd still reach over 400 Dps (two slots devoted to damage), that's more than ample - still sufficient to break a Dual Armour repairer Apocalypse tank solo. Take a well skilled 'cookie cutter' Tech II light neutron setup, you could still do over 300 Dps with just two slots devoted to extra damage (234 for Tech II neutrons, spec. at IV, 78 for 9 hammerheads) - still enough to break an Apocalypse tank solo. There is no justification for the thorax having 8 heavy drones. Oh and cruisers do not need anymore of a boost; there is perhaps a case for knocking the tracking of Long range Battleship Turrets down a peg, but not turning cruisers into cheap mini-Battleships, if you want that use a Battlecruiser (and no, the Brutix does not 'suck' ) ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.24 09:16:00 - [314] Originally by: Garreck All of this "balancing" silliness is fast making every ship the same. How is having one cruiser totally outclassing all the others + non plated battlecruisers any better than making all the ships similar, if at the end of the day we all end up in a similar ship ? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.24 09:16:00 - [315] Originally by: Garreck All of this "balancing" silliness is fast making every ship the same. How is having one cruiser totally outclassing all the others + non plated battlecruisers any better than making all the ships similar, if at the end of the day we all end up in a similar ship ? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.24 09:18:00 - [316] Originally by: Lorth No that thorax is still better, even if cruisers couldn't fit plates. And yes, while oversized plates are certainly a problem, they are certainly not the reason the thorax is unbalanced. And before 1600mm plates became common practice, thoarxes were still the most used cruiser, simply because they are overpowered. The only time, in recent memory that anouther cruiser has been as popular, was during the dual MWD maller days. Sure the thorax is unique, and I have a fair amount of fun in it. But the unbalanced amount of drones it carries, does make it unbalanced when compared to other cruisers. Cruisers need a boost, but how about we get them all on the same playing field before doing so? Words of wisedom Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.24 09:18:00 - [317] Originally by: Lorth No that thorax is still better, even if cruisers couldn't fit plates. And yes, while oversized plates are certainly a problem, they are certainly not the reason the thorax is unbalanced. And before 1600mm plates became common practice, thoarxes were still the most used cruiser, simply because they are overpowered. The only time, in recent memory that anouther cruiser has been as popular, was during the dual MWD maller days. Sure the thorax is unique, and I have a fair amount of fun in it. But the unbalanced amount of drones it carries, does make it unbalanced when compared to other cruisers. Cruisers need a boost, but how about we get them all on the same playing field before doing so? Words of wisedom Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.24 11:01:00 - [318] Originally by: Naughty Boy ... Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. OMG, You argue the points so well, smoting bull with facts, figures and logic. I'd appoint you an honourary Amarrian if I could
Deja Thoris Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2005.08.24 11:01:00 - [319] Originally by: Naughty Boy ... Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. OMG, You argue the points so well, smoting bull with facts, figures and logic. I'd appoint you an honourary Amarrian if I could
Lyticus	Posted - 2005.08.24 11:14:00 - [320] Edited by: Lyticus on 24/08/2005 11:15:15 I think that a step in the right direction would be to reduce the thorax (EDIT: and ALL cruisers) to MEDIUM Drones only, that would make the Vexor viable, while solving quite a lot of the problem with the thorax having huge DPS. I also think 1600mm plates should be limited to battlecruisers and higher, and the rax should receive a powergrid/cpu bonus. I can't fit even THREE of the biggest med blasters on my thorax, pretty dumb considering its a 'gunboat' My two cents. - Lyticus Yes, he is a Kangaroo. No, you can't touch him. Resident Aussie Bloke
Lyticus Veto.	Posted - 2005.08.24 11:14:00 - [321] Edited by: Lyticus on 24/08/2005 11:15:15 I think that a step in the right direction would be to reduce the thorax (EDIT: and ALL cruisers) to MEDIUM Drones only, that would make the Vexor viable, while solving quite a lot of the problem with the thorax having huge DPS. I also think 1600mm plates should be limited to battlecruisers and higher, and the rax should receive a powergrid/cpu bonus. I can't fit even THREE of the biggest med blasters on my thorax, pretty dumb considering its a 'gunboat' My two cents. - Lyticus
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.08.24 11:51:00 - [322] Originally by: Jim Raynor People that can't see the Thorax is clearly imbalanced **** compared to the rest of T1 cruisers are simply blind. Or flying one themselves Spacerats recruiting!
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2005.08.24 11:51:00 - [323] Originally by: Jim Raynor People that can't see the Thorax is clearly imbalanced **** compared to the rest of T1 cruisers are simply blind. Or flying one themselves
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.08.24 12:15:00 - [324] Originally by: HUGO DRAX Lets see, Heavy NOS = dead rax Cruise Missles = dead rax ECM = dead rax stay 20KM away from one. etc.. Think. Yeah you think... heavy nos on a cruiser? cruise missiles on a cruiser? Ow wait, that's on a battleship! How is that relevant when we are discussion how the rax is overpowered compared to other cruisers? Spacerats recruiting!
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2005.08.24 12:15:00 - [325] Edited by: Tobiaz on 24/08/2005 13:52:34 Originally by: HUGO DRAX Lets see, Heavy NOS = dead rax Cruise Missles = dead rax ECM = dead rax stay 20KM away from one. etc.. Think. Yeah you think... heavy nos on a cruiser? cruise missiles on a cruiser? Ow wait, that's on a battleship! How is that relevant when we are discussion how the rax is overpowered compared to other cruisers? Also that ECM part is utter nonsence. Good luck trying to down a rax with a BB when even a Scorp will have to pay attention and better has a nos fitted against a platerax.
Vathar	Posted - 2005.08.24 12:20:00 - [326] Maybe reducing the drone bay to 150 instead of 200m3 would be better. It would leave pilots the opportunity to take up to 10 medium AND spare drones, or a mix of meds/heavies. In fact 150 is the dronebay Ravens and Tempests have and they are BATTLESHIPS! Gallente ARE the drone race, so let them keep their edge, but don't overdo it The thing that puzzles me is vexor vs. thorax, the drone cruiser is less powerful drone-wise than the blaster cruiser !! Apart from this, YES, nerf oversized plates and apply an overall boost on cruisers. On a sidenote, it's hard to boost a class of ships when there ARE inbalances inside said class ... ____________ Space Shaman Don't take life seriously, you'll not survive it anyway (\_/) (O.o) (> <) yay, got my bunny too !!
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.24 12:20:00 - [327] Maybe reducing the drone bay to 150 instead of 200m3 would be better. It would leave pilots the opportunity to take up to 10 medium AND spare drones, or a mix of meds/heavies. In fact 150 is the dronebay Ravens and Tempests have and they are BATTLESHIPS! Gallente ARE the drone race, so let them keep their edge, but don't overdo it The thing that puzzles me is vexor vs. thorax, the drone cruiser is less powerful drone-wise than the blaster cruiser !! Apart from this, YES, nerf oversized plates and apply an overall boost on cruisers. On a sidenote, it's hard to boost a class of ships when there ARE inbalances inside said class ... Originally by: Radeberger If you plan to make your alliance combat based, recruit pvpers with mining alts rather than miners with pvp alts
AlleyKat	Posted - 2005.08.24 12:42:00 - [328] The Thorax is a skills-heavy ship, FGS don't nerf the drone bay! Regards, AK.
AlleyKat Gallente The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2005.08.24 12:42:00 - [329] The Thorax is a skills-heavy ship, FGS don't nerf the drone bay! Recruiting!
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.08.24 12:45:00 - [330] Originally by: Dragon Slave Quote: Battlecruisers cost ~4x as much, are they 4x more effective?...I seriously doubt it. What kind of reasoning is that? Can a battleship beat 250+ frigates? Ofcourse not, it's a matter of how much ISK you're willing to pay for extra HP and firepower. Of course if you didn't snip out the entire post you would know what I was talking about.. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"

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