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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
61
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Posted - 2015.06.14 21:57:06 -
[1261] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Right now the "scout" is the FC ship that everyone is anchored on.
What I find funniest about this is that I have been the scout for numerous coalition fleets in which baltec1 has participated. Even more amazing, I was not the FC! I was, however, bored to tears burning perches for Laz (among others) and then acting as a rolling safe spot. But hey, that's quality game play!
Likewise. I understand he's trolling, but I'm not sure why.
Some reasons that come to mind: - the CFC has enough people to fill these roles, and can probably only be matched by PL or very good low sec groups who make up for numbers with skill. This change will only ensure CFC superiority yet again. - he really is against these changes, but by being the "idiot" devil's advocate, is getting everyone riled up, and to no small extent, has contributed to this thread being well on its way to 100 pages. - it's just that entertaining to get knee jerk reactions from people who are clutching at straws.
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Azarah Aubaris
The Irukandji The Irukandji.
41
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Posted - 2015.06.14 21:59:22 -
[1262] - Quote
Lucas Quaan wrote: What this system intends to do is force fleets to warp to players instead, making scouts a valuable asset once again, but slowing down the constant ongrid warping that we see today.
scouts have a role with or without this change. scouts still have always had the ability to provided warpins in ceptors cloaky t3's and such. but when it comes to large fleet battles the FC needs to be able to punt fleet members together to regroup and ad maneuver on grid. |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
61
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Posted - 2015.06.14 22:02:59 -
[1263] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Every scout was new at some point. How do you expect to get new scouts if you refuse to train them?
Not by making them cannon fodder, but giving them +1 or -1 responsibilities, then creating pings on hostile grids, then in cloaky ships that provide positional advantages, then basically being on the FC's beck and call.
You know, just like how we do it now.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16211
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Posted - 2015.06.14 22:18:02 -
[1264] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
Because that ship can be in two spots at the same time? Dev hax, or quantum physics seeing its day in space court?
Kidding aside, FCs are either in probing boosters that have paper thin tank and never come on field, or are brick tanked on field, and never bother fitting a prober on that ship.
In the first case, no one is anchored on the ship and it is the scanning "scout" that this change supposedly bring about.
In the second case, he ain't scanning anything, and is warping his wing/fleet to his alt, cause he's the FC/WC and the prober can't do it himself. Again, the elusive scout already exists in the alt.
Really, friend, stop trolling :)
All FC ships have expanded probe launchers on them.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
61
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Posted - 2015.06.14 22:26:24 -
[1265] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:All FC ships have expanded probe launchers on them.
Lol. |
Miner Hottie
Haywire.
163
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Posted - 2015.06.15 00:04:09 -
[1266] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
Because that ship can be in two spots at the same time? Dev hax, or quantum physics seeing its day in space court?
Kidding aside, FCs are either in probing boosters that have paper thin tank and never come on field, or are brick tanked on field, and never bother fitting a prober on that ship.
In the first case, no one is anchored on the ship and it is the scanning "scout" that this change supposedly bring about.
In the second case, he ain't scanning anything, and is warping his wing/fleet to his alt, cause he's the FC/WC and the prober can't do it himself. Again, the elusive scout already exists in the alt.
Really, friend, stop trolling :)
All FC ships have expanded probe launchers on them.
Ok Baltec you have had enough fun trolling this thread but you have ceased contributing anything of use at about page 2. Time to pack up your bat and ball and go welp a megathron (I have an old Baltec megathron for sale in YAO if you need a spare).
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
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Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
245
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Posted - 2015.06.15 00:18:42 -
[1267] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: All FC ships have expanded probe launchers on them.
/thread Obviously this is why we should push this change through, how could anyone here have missed this most obvious reason, maintaining the status quo |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1702
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Posted - 2015.06.15 00:23:28 -
[1268] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Also want repair broadcasts to only be seen by the squad they are in so logi gets a nerf without having her nerf logistics ships. Hahahaha! The way power creep is going with more damage and alphas? Are you nuts?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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Dentia Caecus
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2015.06.15 01:16:36 -
[1269] - Quote
The Wormhole issue has been well addressed. However, this \unfairly hurts noncombatant activities in New Eden to justify implementation. Mining, standard and wormhole activities both by raiding parties and residents, all actively use warping to bookmarks for both survivability ad basic function. I appreciate the concept behind the announced intentions, but this just doesn't work. |
Battledonkey Dogeman
Evocati Aeterna Nerfed Alliance Go Away
1
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Posted - 2015.06.15 01:45:52 -
[1270] - Quote
Why are you guys trying to make CCP change their minds?
You guys know they like to fix problems by harvesting cotton with a flamethrower |
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Miao Sajuuk
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2015.06.15 02:23:39 -
[1271] - Quote
Suicide coordinate transmitter? CCP you should request them light up a cyno to let other ship warp to him.
Am I really playing a space sci-fi sandbox game? |
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
245
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Posted - 2015.06.15 02:44:40 -
[1272] - Quote
Battledonkey Dogeman wrote:Why are you guys trying to make CCP change their minds?
You guys know they like to fix problems by harvesting cotton with a flamethrower It's funny though, I've noticed that the Features & Ideas "Discussion" threads posted by CCP are more or less Features & Ideas Announcement threads, as no real discussion on the part of the developers really takes shape. And IF there happens to be any discussion involved, it generally follows the lines of, "we know what's best, deal with it." As opposed to, "You bring up valid points lets rethink this." The only reason I participate in some of these is when the changes are so outrageous that it really warrants the effort, in the hope that this will be the one time they actually look at the feedback. |
Senov Belis
235MeV Waterboard Comedy Tour
0
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Posted - 2015.06.15 02:58:46 -
[1273] - Quote
+1 to the "not playing anymore" list.
All I do is follow my FC and shoot things. If this is no longer possible, bye, I can not give you money anymore. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2517
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Posted - 2015.06.15 03:06:28 -
[1274] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:baltec1 wrote: Also want repair broadcasts to only be seen by the squad they are in so logi gets a nerf without having her nerf logistics ships. Hahahaha! The way power creep is going with more damage and alphas? Are you nuts? which is in no small part a result of...? Take a guess. |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
298
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Posted - 2015.06.15 03:47:34 -
[1275] - Quote
CCP waves bye bye to eve subscriptions o/
Seriously though this seems like a really unnecessary change whose results could be achieved through other changes. This seems like a knee-jerk reaction idea. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11394
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 04:21:24 -
[1276] - Quote
Senov Belis wrote:+1 to the "not playing anymore" list.
All I do is follow my FC and shoot things. If this is no longer possible, bye, I can not give you money anymore.
This is counter productive, because this is where CCP starts looking at people and saying "you say that, but you ain't quitting, we know" lol. Those of us who have reasonable concerns about a CCP action always get sabotaged by people who say this "-1 sub" crap.
If you're going to quit, quit quietly so the rest of us can have a productive discussion with the developers of the game we play.
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Alexis Nightwish
249
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Posted - 2015.06.15 05:15:22 -
[1277] - Quote
Dermeisen wrote:Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Alexis Nightwish wrote:noted 1. If you think there is only one reason for the change and that every other affect is "collateral damage", that might be why you don't understand or accept it. 2. FC's are not "forced" to do anything. They don't even have to log in. If FCing is too hard for them after this change, then maybe they were not officer material to begin with. Not everyone is cut out to be a leader. It sounds like a lot of the objection to this change is from people who just don't want to accept that cold, harsh reality. 3. PVE'ers, by definition, adapt to their environment. They overcome the challenges their environment imposes on them. If they can't do that, maybe they should go do something easier, like ganking noobs in Uitra. 4. Is it supposed to do something to bombers? Bomber pilots are supposed to be elite operators capable of complex, cooperative behavior. The harder EVE gets, the GREATER the advantage to such players. 5. This does nothing to small gangs. Small gang pilots tend to fall into one of two categories: noobs and elites. Or, in other words, people who are learning how to play the game and people who are good at playing the game. The former were already going to adapt, else how would they be able to play the game at all? The latter are already proven to be capable of adaptation. It's how they got good at the game. Besides that, I've never been in a small gang that blind-fleet warped to a probe signature, not in high sec, not in low sec, not in null, and not in a wormhole. We ALWAYS sent in a scout. Whether you think scouting is a glory-less or frustrating job depends on your playstyle. In the non-PVE fleets I've flown in, the scout(s) were usually the better players. Unfortunately, it takes a competent FC to understand their value and employ them effectively, and it takes a competent operator to scout effectively in a hostile environment. One or both of those are lacking in many fleets, but a scout is "the tip of the spear". That's a fun job for some people, for some playstyles. 6. In the wormhole operations I've been involved in, you manage your own bookmarks. Yes, sometimes you can grab/use a corp bookmark or a friend's bookmark, but generally, you didn't stand around twiddling your thumbs while others are doing the work of securing the hole, gathering intel, scanning down signatures, fighting for their lives, etc. And, this is not just so you don't get lost; it's also in case someone else (person_B) gets lost, the closest person or the person in a small ship (person_A) can be tasked to go back and provide a warp-in without one of his responsible, boomark-managing teammates (person_C) having to hold his hand and guide him to the wormhole that he couldn't be arsed to bookmark himself when he came through. If having to wait an extra 20 seconds for your scout to say "GO!" makes it impossible for you to play in wormholes, you should GTFO of wormholes. 7. [Non-corp] group leaders can share bookmarks with eachother. Then, they can each share bookmarks with their groups. A lazy FC could also just not share bookmarks and just warp ahead of his fleet, who could then warp to him. Then, the person with the bookmarks would only have to share them with the FC . . . wait, I think that was redundant. 8. That is called a "problem". Some types of people are good at figuring out solutions to "problems". When those people are empowered to give other people "commands", they are generally referred to as "commander", not to be confused with the specific rank of Commander which is used in many militaries and other organizations with such hierarchical social structures. When a "commander" is empowered to give orders to a fleet and its members, he/she is called a "fleet commander", generally abbreviated as "FC" in EVE Online. 9. I am seeing a theme and it is this: You are not fleet command material. :-( Great reply Mayhaw, just what I thought as I read though that list, a concise knockdown of all the straw men arguments presented. On a more prospective note I would like to see CCP respond by lessening the fitting requirement for a combat probe launcher or the meta will be dominated by tactical destroyers. Cheers this is good change but as they say of old physicists, they don't change their minds they just die!
I don't think you know what strawman means.
At no point did I misrepresent the opposition's arguments which are thus:
CCP Larrikin wrote: The goal of these changes is to encourage more individual fleet member participation and reduce the speed at which fleets can get on top of targets (e.g bombers).
CCP Larrikin wrote: Q: CCP, why you do this? A: We want transfer more responsibility for the success of a fleet from its FC to its members.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
64
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Posted - 2015.06.15 06:02:59 -
[1278] - Quote
if this is balanced (for want of a better word) by giving players the ability to broadcast a bookmark that their fleet can then warp themselves to, then perhaps it's not such a bad concept.
as mentioned, removing fleet-warp to scanned sigs also makes off-grid boosters even more invulnerable than they are.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4509
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Posted - 2015.06.15 06:27:34 -
[1279] - Quote
I think what this actually comes down to is not that the fleet warp change itself is bad, it's that the bookmark mechanics are bad. If CCP added alliance and fleet level bookmark systems, along with a sync button on the BM screens that would instantly sync an individual's bookmarks without needing to wait 5min for the auto sync, then this change would be generally applauded.
In its current state, the bookmark system just does not and cannot provide an acceptable substitute for the fleet warp mechanic. As such, at least squad warp needs to remain.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1409
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Posted - 2015.06.15 06:48:29 -
[1280] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:I think what this actually comes down to is not that the fleet warp change itself is bad, it's that the bookmark mechanics are bad. If CCP added alliance and fleet level bookmark systems, along with a sync button on the BM screens that would instantly sync an individual's bookmarks without needing to wait 5min for the auto sync, then this change would be generally applauded.
In its current state, the bookmark system just does not and cannot provide an acceptable substitute for the fleet warp mechanic. As such, at least squad warp needs to remain.
Or allow corp BMs to be warped to by corp members as a fleet (I'm aware of mixed fleet issues).
After all, they can all warp to the desto.
However I'm betting it's a technical limitation because it's if't not an anom, on your overview or a player then you can't do it. |
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16213
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Posted - 2015.06.15 07:46:42 -
[1281] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote:
Ok Baltec you have had enough fun trolling this thread but you have ceased contributing anything of use at about page 2. Time to pack up your bat and ball and go welp a megathron (I have an old Baltec megathron for sale in YAO if you need a spare).
You think I'm trolling but our FC ships do infact all come with combat probes fitted. Think about this, the organisation that has effectively won null and owns a good number of the best FCs in the game has put forwards this idea to nerf fleets. We are calling to nerf our own fleets because they are too easy to run. This change is not a hard one to adapt to but it does remove one of the biggest advantages we have in a fight vs the highly disorganized rabble that is most of EVE.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
283
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Posted - 2015.06.15 07:48:04 -
[1282] - Quote
Busta Rock wrote:like I said before, people whining about fleet warp the way it was are mainly those incapable of adapting. those of us who are complaining about this nerf of fleet warp mechanics NOW are in fact those who will adapt, and remain just as big a headache to those that lobbied for this change as before. next thing you'll know, the idiots who pushed for this will be complaining about how good FCs are able to maximize their use of scouts, and start pushing for removal of ALL warp to fleet member functionality!
enough of that, and eventually CCP will just remove bookmarks altogether, leaving us with no ability to warp to ANYTHING that isnt a fully public nav target, even if we're solo.
ah stop, to remove warp to fleet members would break fleets and it's not ever going to happen. bookmarks removed altogether? you didn't really think that comment through did you.
but fleet warp to boomarks i have no problem with them going.
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Calorn Marthor
Standard Fuel Company
49
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Posted - 2015.06.15 08:19:22 -
[1283] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Tatsuj Khan wrote:Suggestion: Make corporate wormhole BMs "public" just as gates are, and allow fleets to warp from WH to WH in a coherent group. Otherwise as the Dev proposal stands now, the fleet can't work together as they land because ships are strung out throughout the system. This allows the enemy to pick off small faster ships first as the landing fleet straggles in.
If wormhole BMs are made "public", it should significantly lessen the damage this nerf does to WH corp membership and fleet ops. I recall somewhere in the sov changes thread, devs stated that changes should enhance game play rather than add unnecessary difficulties and tedium. This is a great suggestion. Building on it - allowing fleet warping to WH probe results could also work. There are a couple of questions we'd like to thrash out and get more feedback on relating to power projection in WH space before we make a change like this.
Could a deployable "warp beacon" be a solution? You anchor something in space that becomes visible throughout the system (like a cyno). This would not be a copy of the existing mechanisms, but a new element of gameplay (please discuss).
A site would need to be prepared to work as a warp target (e.g. a scout would have to set up those "road signs" to allow fast travel through a WH chain). However, this takes away some part of the sneakyness... other people might become aware that there is a position of interest and that someone might want to warp there in the future and interact with the beacon (camp it, destroy it, misplace it, whatever...) |
Solecist Punk
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
350
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Posted - 2015.06.15 08:20:34 -
[1284] - Quote
Syzygium wrote:Solecist Punk wrote:For a proper fleet of -10, who does more than be afk in station most of the time, this change is game breaking. You do not seem to have understanding of that, which is fine, but stop assuming you know better when you clearly don't. I was -10 for 6 years (2009-2015) and CEO of a smallscale pirate corporation for several years and I don't agree with you. Especially -10s and WH people are skilled enough to adapt quickly and benefit from their higher overall fleet movement and independent member activity compared to fleets of larger 0.0 groups who greatly rely on the FC and his commands. This change will give smaller groups of skilled players an edge over large pulks of F1 drones and that alone makes it a good change. That it will lead to more important scout-roles even in larger fleets, offering people with low SP but high softskills jobs they can excel in instead of fitting meta-guns to a level III skilled BS hull just to add "more dps" to the fleet. And you are just a lesser ganker like the rest of them. Your empty words mean nothing, because you do not even understand what I am talking about. Just because you were -10 does not mean you know what every -10 does or can do. What matters is that the relevant people (not you) understand that this breaks my gameplay and there is no way to properly adapt to it. I do not need to explain it to you, as you do not matter in the slightest. Hell, the amount of empty words in your post is embarassing. You should go into politics.
I will not respond in this thread any more, as the important parts have been set and done. None of you can go into this, because none of you plays like me. I can absolutely guarantee that. CCP can easily go through years of logs about Solstice Project and Solecist Project and find out all by themselves that this would completely break my fleets.
That is *all* that matters. I am not posting here to discuss with you, because you do not matter. Your opinions matter when it comes to the change, but not when it comes to what others say about that change. They especially do not matter when you do not understand what the other person is talking about and randomly trying to argue with people is completely silly and childish. (baltec, for example, who is attention whoring like a madman).
That's all there is to say. CCP, this breaks my gameplay and prevents me from ever again FCing a proer fleet of outlaws in highsec. It reduces my gameplay to all that of the lesser gankers and there *is* *nothing* I can do to adapt. I can happily SHOW YOU if you wish so, just throw me an eve-mail at Solecist Project.
Cheers. |
Miner Hottie
Haywire.
165
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Posted - 2015.06.15 08:33:15 -
[1285] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Miner Hottie wrote:
Ok Baltec you have had enough fun trolling this thread but you have ceased contributing anything of use at about page 2. Time to pack up your bat and ball and go welp a megathron (I have an old Baltec megathron for sale in YAO if you need a spare).
You think I'm trolling but our FC ships do infact all come with combat probes fitted. Think about this, the organisation that has effectively won null and owns a good number of the best FCs in the game has put forwards this idea to nerf fleets. We are calling to nerf our own fleets because they are too easy to run. This change is not a hard one to adapt to but it does remove one of the biggest advantages we have in a fight vs the highly disorganized rabble that is most of EVE.
Now you are just trolling. When did Manny join the CFC? He was quite enthusiastic about this early on the thread.
As for winning null sec so what? What is a minor inconvenience for the Imperium and its blob of ships is difficult for small gang and god fvcking awful in wormholes.
And still at the end if it all the justifications dribbled out by CCP don't pass muster when considering the wealth of real broken things to fix (obligatory fix POS's statement) or the broadly vaguely identified items this does "fix" bombers and probing.
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
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Corben Arctus
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
30
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Posted - 2015.06.15 09:40:45 -
[1286] - Quote
Speed up the propagation of corp bookmarks, and I've no problem with this change.
It's still gonna suck for fleets made up of multiple corps. WTB fleet bookmark system. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16213
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Posted - 2015.06.15 09:56:04 -
[1287] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote:baltec1 wrote:Miner Hottie wrote:
Ok Baltec you have had enough fun trolling this thread but you have ceased contributing anything of use at about page 2. Time to pack up your bat and ball and go welp a megathron (I have an old Baltec megathron for sale in YAO if you need a spare).
You think I'm trolling but our FC ships do infact all come with combat probes fitted. Think about this, the organisation that has effectively won null and owns a good number of the best FCs in the game has put forwards this idea to nerf fleets. We are calling to nerf our own fleets because they are too easy to run. This change is not a hard one to adapt to but it does remove one of the biggest advantages we have in a fight vs the highly disorganized rabble that is most of EVE. Now you are just trolling. When did Manny join the CFC? He was quite enthusiastic about this early on the thread. As for winning null sec so what? What is a minor inconvenience for the Imperium and its blob of ships is difficult for small gang and god fvcking awful in wormholes. And still at the end if it all the justifications dribbled out by CCP don't pass muster when considering the wealth of real broken things to fix (obligatory fix POS's statement) or the broadly vaguely identified items this does "fix" bombers and probing.
Because having a dedicated scout is impossible to ask of a small gang
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
382
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Posted - 2015.06.15 09:56:22 -
[1288] - Quote
65 pages in and the summary is basically:
WH:
Bookmarks are just too slow. Really they are, anything from 1 min to over 5 mins. It is a pain in the ares regardless of these changes. So a fix would be nice anyway. But with these changes it is needed.
Mixed corp fleets:
Again bookmarks. Alliance bookmarks is something everyone has wanted for some time. These changes do really need something like that fixed. Esp with the roll out of fozzieSov.
Bombers:
No idea why anyone thinks this would change bombers. I can only assume 99.9% of people who go on about bombers have never flown them. We have *never* used fleet warp for bomb runs. We have almost never used bookmarks. Someone flys to a perch and we use public warp to points for warp out, and its is never done with fleet warp. You decloak yourself, bomb yourself and warp off yourself. So ZERO change here. However i don't think CCP had any bomber effect intention here anyway.
baltec1:
Troll for 60 pages. Please Ignore.
Final thoughts:
Don't add tedium for no reason. Without some bookmark changes/fixes this adds a lot of tedium for no benefit.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
382
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Posted - 2015.06.15 09:57:50 -
[1289] - Quote
65 pages in and the summary is basically:
WH:
Bookmarks are just too slow. Really they are, anything from 1 min to over 5 mins. It is a pain in the ares regardless of these changes. So a fix would be nice anyway. But with these changes it is needed.
Mixed corp fleets:
Again bookmarks. Alliance bookmarks is something everyone has wanted for some time. These changes do really need something like that fixed. Esp with the roll out of fozzieSov.
Bombers:
No idea why anyone thinks this would change bombers. I can only assume 99.9% of people who go on about bombers have never flown them. We have *never* used fleet warp for bomb runs. We have almost never used bookmarks. Someone flys to a perch and we use public warp to points for warp out, and its is never done with fleet warp. You decloak yourself, bomb yourself and warp off yourself. So ZERO change here. However i don't think CCP had any bomber effect intention here anyway.
baltec1:
Troll for 60 pages. Please Ignore.
Final thoughts:
Don't add tedium for no reason. Without some bookmark changes/fixes this adds a lot of tedium for no benefit.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1703
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 09:58:22 -
[1290] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:baltec1 wrote: Also want repair broadcasts to only be seen by the squad they are in so logi gets a nerf without having her nerf logistics ships. Hahahaha! The way power creep is going with more damage and alphas? Are you nuts? which is in no small part a result of...? Take a guess. Feeding the "I want crowd" Logi haven't changed in what? A decade? Now they are a problem? Tier 3s, T3s, etc while the T1s languish. Newbies keep having further and further to go and that is disheartening.
Utility > power.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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