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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |

Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 16:13:42 -
[1591] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Zappity wrote: To tackle? Lol
Why not? We use just as flimsy interceptors, t1 frigates and Ewar frigs.
With that covops also playing the role of being the linchpin for positioning the fleet, it's a great way to make sure that they all go home after it dies waiting for its fleetmates to land. Unless it's going for something like a badger or a shuttle, I suppose.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
337
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 16:16:40 -
[1592] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Inb4 "time your warp".
Edit: I don't think it's terrible idea to allow pilot to warp at speeds slower than maximum.
I've actually wanted that ability for a while. It might seem nuts, but if I'm trying to burn off jump fatigue, being able to tell my carrier to do that 100 AU warp at 0.01 au/s while I bounce safes? mmmmm, tasty. |

Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31915
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 16:17:51 -
[1593] - Quote
EVE is the most fun while playing on just one client. Multiboxing happens because some people will simply play as hard as they can. Take the ability or benefit away, and then we can start playing a game that is balanced and played under the assumption of using just one character per player. You get better balance decisions that way.
As for uses of alts, there will always be scouting. I don't see that going away until EVE is declared one-client only. You'd think that won't happen any time soon, but lately I've been surprised at the bold decisions that impact multiboxing. It would be an interesting development.
This change, though, removing align and orbit, and approach, and keep at range... the bulk of the impact is on players who don't know what's going on, but maybe that's a good thing. It requires more instruction by experienced players, which is the type of thing that builds bonds.
It's bad, though, because EVE is already confounding, and I often wonder if this game's intellectual barrier to entry is a bit much. I worry about that because I'd like to see more players in EVE. The unsettling thing about that possibility is EVE would have to be more enjoyable first, then the increase in player numbers follows.
Right now you have Fozzie ideating changes like these that would forcibly improve gameplay, but a lack of intuitive UI design to make up for the loss of awareness.
It might seem odd that players react to a single change like this with so much conviction, but it's because of the context of isolated changes within the rest of the game. I think the biggest deficiency outside of these types of changes is the UI. I hate seeing it even called a UI, because the goal should be more of a HUD. The client design strategy can be accurately described as tables.
I miss Soundwave. I could tell he understood this type of interplay.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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stoicfaux
5915
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 16:19:21 -
[1594] - Quote
Dermeisen wrote: How about squad warp, but no squad warp for cloaked ships..... It is useful to use take a parsimonious approach to each goals and address each with the least invasive change. Or maybe remove covert ops cloak from bombers? Tweak their warp deceleration constant and/or fiddle with their bomb release timings to balance them. (Instead of nerfing fleet warp.)
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16239
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 16:49:20 -
[1595] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:baltec1 wrote:If you don't want to be a scout then dont be one, to say you are nothing more than a boring mobile bookmark though is a lie. This is how we used to do things and there was a lot of people who had fun with it. It is one of the most active jobs you could have in a fleet and a damnsight more engaging than ctrl-click next broadcasted target. Except, as one of your own alliance mates points out, this task will be completed by the FC, and therefore do jack all for the average fleet member.
It can be but doesnt mean it will be. FCs tend to lose their cov ops alts a lot which is why they fly FC ships with probe launchers. There will be a need for multiple scouts in fleets and an FC cannot fly that many things.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16239
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 16:53:35 -
[1596] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:baltec1 wrote:Zappity wrote: To tackle? Lol
Why not? We use just as flimsy interceptors, t1 frigates and Ewar frigs. With that covops also playing the role of being the linchpin for positioning the fleet, it's a great way to make sure that they all go home after it dies waiting for its fleetmates to land. Unless it's going for something like a badger or a shuttle, I suppose.
So bring more than one.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
337
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:06:57 -
[1597] - Quote
Yun Kuai wrote: You know how every ship has different warp speeds? You know how 99.9% of doctrines all fly 1-3 ships in each doctrine setting? You know how easy it would be to say, "BS (lol, who uses BS in fleet fights...) start your warp now." *counts down timer* "Logi, start your warp at 50km" *counts down timer* Inties, start your warp now"
Completely setting aside the foolishness of '1-3 ships in each doctrine'...
Add in different top speeds within each general ship category, different skills for the pilots, and different times to accelerate into warp, and different times to accelerate from 'entering warp' to their max warp speeds, and different times to decelerate again...
So: I need to warp 50 Dominixes, 9 Armageddons, Baltec1's Navy Megathron, 5 Guardians, 6 Oneiros, 2 Augorors, an Exequror, 3 Damnations, 4 Loki, 6 Proteii, 3 Vigils, and a Hyena.
Dominix: 2.0 au/s. Max velocity*: 109 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 0.1254 Armageddon: 2.0 au/s. Max velocity: 100 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 0.13 Megathron Navy Issue: 2.0 au/s. Max velocity: 130 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 0.105 Damnation: 3.0 au/s. Max velocity: 150 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 0.7 Guardian: 3.3 au/s. Max velocity: 209 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 0.61 Oneiros: 3.3 au/s. Max velocity: 230 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 0.615 Augoror: 3.0 au/s. Max velocity: 235 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 0.56 Exequror: 3.0 au/s. Max velocity: 240 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 0.61 Loki**: 3.0 au/s. Max velocity: 237 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 0.34 Proteus**: 3.0 au/s. Max velocity: 237 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 0.4 Vigil: 5.0 au/s. Max velocity: 410 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 3.22 Hyena: 5.5 au/s. Max velocity: 375 m/s. Inertia Modifier: 3.93
My scout is 10km directly behind the enemy fleet (for the sake of simplicity), exactly 100 au away. For the first, and most straightforward example, we'll assume everyone has been previously aligned (say they're aligning toward the station grid the enemy fleet is on).
1)So, since we're stipulating everyone's already nicely aligned and at max speed, this one's simple: Give me the countdowns for each ship category. 100 au.
2)Now give me the countdowns for each ship class if the situation abruptly changes and a second enemy fleet comes in through a gate 23.48 au off the fleet's staging point (safe spot, POS, wherever the fleet was going to take that 100 au warp from). We'll be nice and simple and say that it's a nice, clean 90 degree heading change.
3)Now give me the countdowns for that same situation, except half your battleships only have Spaceship Command IV (we'll be nice and say it's half of each type), meaning they have 2% lower final agility than the ones w/Spaceship Command V. 3 of the Logi have SSC III, and one of the Vigils only has SSC I.
and do all of this on the fly, with under 30 seconds to react.
Still think it's easy?
* - all speeds base, no plates, no rigs, purely for demonstration purposes. ** - for purposes of this example, Lokis and Proteii have been given the subsystems of common builds, and an assumed subsystem skill of 5.
*** - HIDDEN STEALTH TRICK QUESTION: Baltec's actually flying his HARPYFLEET fit, so his Megathron Navy Issue warps at the same 5.5 au/s as an assault frigate, with similar velocity/agility numbers. (really, Baltec, I love those insane fits of yours.) |

Grinder2210
Most Unknown
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:08:28 -
[1598] - Quote
Such a bad idea in so many was the more i think about this idea the more a think CCP dosnt get how the game works at
So let me just outline the biggist reason why CCP is being stupid here, Its simple really.
This will create less need for alts and more need for active players IE this will cost you money CCP 
Honestly the change it self isnt that big a deal I personally dont care about CCP's bottom line just saying.
As CCP Hellmar said on the O7 show " we whould have to mess something up to not last another 12 year" This type of unneeded change to fix one problem. Is as good as starting the car down the road there ..
Here's another way to fix bombers ... GET RID OF THERE No fireing delay after uncloaking .. I lot can happen if five sec's proof to that is simply ITs the same amount of time your going to delay bomber fleets form getting there with this change anyway ..
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16239
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:16:33 -
[1599] - Quote
Arrendis wrote: *** - HIDDEN STEALTH TRICK QUESTION: Baltec's actually flying his HARPYFLEET fit, so his Megathron Navy Issue warps at the same 5.5 au/s as an assault frigate, with similar velocity/agility numbers. (really, Baltec, I love those insane fits of yours.)
Fun fact, I have a commandthron that can double up as a scout prober :getin:
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Sierra Payne
Swamphole Inc. Swamphole
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:24:52 -
[1600] - Quote
Idea:
Let's assume for a second that this all goes through.
Please allow players to manually set their warp-speed in order to be able to warp at similar speed as the rest of your fleet. That way we can control our arrival time somewhat acceptably, and not have the Guardians land 20 seconds before the DPS (or other way around).
Please? |

Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:32:24 -
[1601] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:So bring more than one.
I suspect people won't do much of that for the same reason they don't use covops as tackle in a gate camp, or roaming fleet.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16239
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:33:15 -
[1602] - Quote
Sierra Payne wrote:Idea:
Let's assume for a second that this all goes through.
Please allow players to manually set their warp-speed in order to be able to warp at similar speed as the rest of your fleet. That way we can control our arrival time somewhat acceptably, and not have the Guardians land 20 seconds before the DPS (or other way around).
Please?
Just use a cloaky scout and fleet warp to it. Works the say way it currently does.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16239
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:35:48 -
[1603] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:baltec1 wrote:So bring more than one. I suspect people won't do much of that for the same reason they don't use covops as tackle in a gate camp, or roaming fleet.
They dont currently because they dont need to. We used them in the past, we will use them in the furture when this lands. In terms of adapting to change this is an easy one.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
338
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:37:17 -
[1604] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Arrendis wrote: *** - HIDDEN STEALTH TRICK QUESTION: Baltec's actually flying his HARPYFLEET fit, so his Megathron Navy Issue warps at the same 5.5 au/s as an assault frigate, with similar velocity/agility numbers. (really, Baltec, I love those insane fits of yours.)
Fun fact, I have a commandthron that can double up as a scout prober :getin:
This surprises me not even a little. |

Naglerr
Sanguine Penguin Rote Kapelle
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:47:30 -
[1605] - Quote
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a8pss/recording_of_ccp_fleet_warp_meeting_with_wormhole/
This discussion(linked) makes a few things very clear to me:
- The currently proposed removal of game functionality seems destined to occur.
- There will be future changes to the game intended to remove additional functionality from the game for some reason.
- The end result product will not in any way resemble the EVE game that I currently enjoy playing.
I don't know why I'm surprised at all, when CCP messed with the spawn distances to wormholes and the majority response was "do not want" they did it anyway. Why would 80 pages of mostly negative feedback from their customers alter their plans now? I guess it just rubs me the wrong way that they refuse to even compromise when confronted with such voluminous opposition. This situation applied to real business would be something like a major car manufacturer issuing a mandatory recall where they disable all cruise control because that feature causes people to use their cars in a way the manufacturer doesn't like.
Could I adapt? Yes, I suppose I could find a way to have content in this new game, but what it boils down to for me is this: I do not like the game CCP is changing EVE to be and I don't want to. |

Sierra Payne
Swamphole Inc. Swamphole
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:49:50 -
[1606] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Sierra Payne wrote:Idea:
Let's assume for a second that this all goes through.
Please allow players to manually set their warp-speed in order to be able to warp at similar speed as the rest of your fleet. That way we can control our arrival time somewhat acceptably, and not have the Guardians land 20 seconds before the DPS (or other way around).
Please? Just use a cloaky scout and fleet warp to it. Works the say way it currently does.
I am a wormhole player, which means I need to be able to warp to my bookmarks at 0. A cloaky scout will never be at 0 on the hole when a hostile fleet is present, which means you need insane amounts of effort to get warp-ins behind/around the wormhole even if that wormhole has no other celestials in the direction where your bookmark is.
If we would purely follow your suggestion, it would be extremely cumbersome for anything to be done and really kill the fun. |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16240
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:57:02 -
[1607] - Quote
Sierra Payne wrote:
I am a wormhole player, which means I need to be able to warp to my bookmarks at 0. A cloaky scout will never be at 0 on the hole when a hostile fleet is present, which means you need insane amounts of effort to get warp-ins behind/around the wormhole even if that wormhole has no other celestials in the direction where your bookmark is.
If we would purely follow your suggestion, it would be extremely cumbersome for anything to be done and really kill the fun.
You can warp to 0 on a cloaky.
Simply tell it when you enter warp so it can move out of the way.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:06:43 -
[1608] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:They dont currently because they dont need to. We used them in the past, we will use them in the furture when this lands. In terms of adapting to change this is an easy one.
I don't think there's any doubt we can adapt.
Question is why we should adapt to something that: - makes the FC do more and tedious work, often at the cost of getting additional alts, - reduces the quality of life for the average pilot by making them sit around longer, - cause balance issues with kiting setups by making them even more un-catchable, - forces WH groups to relegate a previously useful and engaged pilot to the position of a mobile bookmarks, and slow travel down by about 2x, - etc. etc.
When it's not even clear that this change will achieve what it has set out to.
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Sierra Payne
Swamphole Inc. Swamphole
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:11:51 -
[1609] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote: - forces WH groups to relegate a previously useful and engaged pilot to the position of a mobile bookmarks, and slow travel down by about 2x,
I can't agree more.
As wormhole group you're already limited to the mass you can bring, along with the lack of people that play w-space outside the major groups. It's pretty challenging to recruit people now, and it'll be only worse if they keep pushing things like this. It forces me to triple box instead of dualbox, simply because it's insanely more tedious. |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1117
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:19:12 -
[1610] - Quote
Naglerr wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a8pss/recording_of_ccp_fleet_warp_meeting_with_wormhole/ This discussion(linked) makes a few things very clear to me:
- The currently proposed removal of game functionality seems destined to occur.
- There will be future changes to the game intended to remove additional functionality from the game for some reason.
- The end result product will not in any way resemble the EVE game that I currently enjoy playing.
I don't know why I'm surprised at all, when CCP messed with the spawn distances to wormholes and the majority response was "do not want" they did it anyway. Why would 80 pages of mostly negative feedback from their customers alter their plans now? I guess it just rubs me the wrong way that they refuse to even compromise when confronted with such voluminous opposition. This situation applied to real business would be something like a major car manufacturer issuing a mandatory recall where they disable all cruise control because that feature causes people to use their cars in a way the manufacturer doesn't like. Could I adapt? Yes, I suppose I could find a way to have content in this new game, but what it boils down to for me is this: I do not like the game CCP is changing EVE to be and I don't want to.
Those reddit comments are just about the most depressing thing I have read in a while.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
34
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:19:55 -
[1611] - Quote
Naglerr wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a8pss/recording_of_ccp_fleet_warp_meeting_with_wormhole/ This discussion(linked) makes a few things very clear to me:
- The currently proposed removal of game functionality seems destined to occur.
- There will be future changes to the game intended to remove additional functionality from the game for some reason.
- The end result product will not in any way resemble the EVE game that I currently enjoy playing.
I don't know why I'm surprised at all, when CCP messed with the spawn distances to wormholes and the majority response was "do not want" they did it anyway. Why would 80 pages of mostly negative feedback from their customers alter their plans now? I guess it just rubs me the wrong way that they refuse to even compromise when confronted with such voluminous opposition. This situation applied to real business would be something like a major car manufacturer issuing a mandatory recall where they disable all cruise control because that feature causes people to use their cars in a way the manufacturer doesn't like. Could I adapt? Yes, I suppose I could find a way to have content in this new game, but what it boils down to for me is this: I do not like the game CCP is changing EVE to be and I don't want to.
At this point, we'd be better off giving developers back the ability to spawn items at will. It's unfortunate that the industry learned so little from the mistakes of SOE with Star Wars Galaxies.
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Brother Mercury
Fire on the Mountain
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:30:28 -
[1612] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Sierra Payne wrote:
I am a wormhole player, which means I need to be able to warp to my bookmarks at 0. A cloaky scout will never be at 0 on the hole when a hostile fleet is present, which means you need insane amounts of effort to get warp-ins behind/around the wormhole even if that wormhole has no other celestials in the direction where your bookmark is.
If we would purely follow your suggestion, it would be extremely cumbersome for anything to be done and really kill the fun.
You can warp to 0 on a cloaky. Simply tell it when you enter warp so it can move out of the way.
The question/problem is just this: how does making this a reality, that is, this added step of warping to cloaky fleet member instead of warping fleet directly, achieve the stated goal of CCP (i.e. more fleet member participation) when 95% of the time, the FC will be the one doing this cloaky roll?
Most of us here, and I think correctly, have argued it doesn't. CCP is removing playability in return for a major inconvenience (and let's be honest, just another arbitrarily added step) which will only make fleet engagements THAT much more of a pain in the ass. And for what? One person (assuming it's not the FC -- which as we already know it will be) to have a slightly larger, albeit boring role?
I don't think most people are against increasing fleet member participation -- there have been MANY good suggestions posted that would accomplish this goal in a better way.
What scares people is the fact that CCP is clearly going to just go ahead with this change regardless of the other better ideas.
On a related note, I do believe that this change will significantly reduce new player subscriptions, unfortunately. |

Rekatan
We Heart U
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:30:50 -
[1613] - Quote
Larrikin and others @ CCP need to read http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a90hi/ccpls_root_cause_analysis_or_how_to_fix_what_you/ and then reread it as many times as it takes. There's way too much "can't see the forest for the trees" going on here. After listening to both of the recorded Q&As, it really boils down to one thing:
If you're having to explain away more "side effects" and "drawbacks" than the initial change would have provided in terms of benefits, then the entire premise for the change is flawed. The above post does an outstanding job of going into more detail on that.
Would Eve benefit from removal of fleet warp (what this in fact is for most practical applications)? Possibly. Is CCP prepared for the development time/cost associated with providing adequate replacements so as to enhance the player's experience rather than ruin it? After listening to these two Q&As, clearly not.
Adding more tedium to the game is NOT how you make players more involved... No one wants this change for next month because it doesn't add content, it just adds headache. Once it adds content, it will likely receive a very different reception. |

Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:31:28 -
[1614] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: You can warp to 0 on a cloaky.
Simply tell it when you enter warp so it can move out of the way.
He's talking about being a warp in for the hole itself. You don't sit at 0 on the hole. Even at 3k, you can now land up to 5km away when you warp to said cloaky at 0. I suppose the slowdown multiplier is more than 2x..
|

Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:35:57 -
[1615] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote:
As always we adapt - So the new method will be
After scanning jump out of the Buzzard into the Domi Wait 10mins for the bookmarks to update Check that the 2 other fleet members have the bookmarks Announce jump to XXX at 20km Announce 3-2-1 Warp
It just seems like there's a lot more needless stuff than click "warp fleet"
Scan target, warp buzzard to it, warp the fleet to the buzzard.
Then warp Buzzard to POS jump in Domi to join in fleet. Warp back to tower jump in the Buzzard warp to sig ... rinse & repeat - or maybe jetcan the sigs?
Amazing -- In a civilization so advanced it has faster than light travel, stargates, A communication channel between players that allows everything from social chat, swapping fits & overviews to instant cash transfers AND the best way to get a spot in space to warp to is Flush it out & scoop it up
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
338
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:43:10 -
[1616] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:Amazing -- In a civilization so advanced it has faster than light travel, stargates, A communication channel between players that allows everything from social chat, swapping fits & overviews to instant cash transfers AND the best way to get a spot in space to warp to is Flush it out & scoop it up
That's right - superluminal communications completely unaffected by distances of thousands of light years, and my ship's computer can't give your ship's computer the 3 pairs of numbers that form coordinates when we're 1500m apart. |

Domania
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:54:07 -
[1617] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Gentle Space Foke,
As announced on the o7 show we are making some changes to fleet warp.
Nope.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31920
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:45:36 -
[1618] - Quote
Somehow I don't think subscription income works the way people think.
This type of change is bold, and it might seem to mean fewer vet subs, and then EVE will die. But consider the possibility that most of EVE's subscription / real money income is from baddies buying PLEX.
So the income reality might actually be the opposite of what you think--less pressure on PLEX means lower ISK value on market, which means baddies will buy more PLEX to have the same amount of ISK, assuming their ISK spending stays the same.
It's a nice thought that EVE is being revamped for the sake of pure gameplay, subscriptions be damned... but that's unrealistic.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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A55 Burger
Weiland Yutani Corporation
34
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:04:48 -
[1619] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Somehow I don't think subscription income works the way people think.
This type of change is bold, and it might seem to mean fewer vet subs, and then EVE will die. But consider the possibility that most of EVE's subscription / real money income is from baddies buying PLEX.
So the income reality might actually be the opposite of what you think--less pressure on PLEX means lower ISK value on market, which means baddies will buy more PLEX to have the same amount of ISK, assuming their ISK spending stays the same.
It's a nice thought that EVE is being revamped for the sake of pure gameplay, subscriptions be damned... but that's unrealistic.
An amusing, relevant quote.
Jayne: "Can't get paid if you crawl away like a little bitty bug, neither. I got a share in this job. Ten percent of nothing isGÇölet me do the math here. Nothing into nothin'. Carry the nothin'..." |

Dermeisen
20
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:10:51 -
[1620] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Dermeisen wrote: How about squad warp, but no squad warp for cloaked ships..... It is useful to use take a parsimonious approach to each goals and address each with the least invasive change. Or maybe remove covert ops cloak from bombers? Tweak their warp deceleration constant and/or fiddle with their bomb release timings to balance them. (Instead of nerfing fleet warp.)
+1 for taking me at my word, and while this is appealing and bombers prevent a cool battleship meta this reply assumes that bombers are the only reason for nerfing fleet warp and we know that this isn't the case. Therefore in essence it's a straw man argument, i.e. an attempt to reframe CCPS concerns in a way that one can attack or ridicule.
I don't think bombers deserve to be complete disabled either, they are cool and the torp version is pretty effective for a low skill point player to have some pretty radical time.
On grid probing is the problem, and this change would be good for the game, if a little awkward. So for goodness sake if we want a positive change then lets not be too disingenuous.
"Not the Boreworms!"
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