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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Pipa Porto
506
   |
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:05:00 -
[451] - Quote
TheSkeptic wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Danfen Fenix wrote:Wait, the dev blog about this has been up for weeks... Why has the complaining only started now ?  The numbers hit SISI, so we've been shown that all of the Exhumers are getting a massive, free, tank buff. Marginal tank buff for mining ships just rebalances things after the destroyer damage buff.
Destroyer buff was the counter to insurance nerf. Pre-Crucible, people used Thoraxes which cost less to gank with than T2 Destroyers and put out more DPS.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Pipa Porto
506
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:08:00 -
[452] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:As a Ice miner I welcome the update, as finally CCP recognizes you should have some ability to not instantly die the minute anything shoots you.
All I see is miles upon miles of butthurt, with no end in sight. Would you pvp in an untanked ship? Would you run a mission in an untanked ship? What makes miners so special that they think they dont need to fit a tank? no because you're intending to go in to a combat situation, tanks are for combat. mining ships are not a combat ship. that's like saying "would you wear a coat in the middle of summer?" "well the eskimos have to, so why don't you have to?"
EVE is a combat situation. If you didn't bother to bring a gun to the gunfight, whose fault is that?
When the forecast calls for rain and you don't bring an umbrella, whose fault is it that you get wet?
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
1260
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:09:00 -
[453] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Dave stark wrote:
i don't disagree on some points; i do think the skiff's ehp is a little overkill. in reality all the hulk needs is enough cpu/pg to fill all of its slots without HAVING to have a fitting mod to fit a tank.
I can't take it anymore - You keep saying that Hulks need to fit 'fitting mods' to survive a Catalyst gank. This is utter bullcrap and you need to stop repeating it. Dave Stark- let me introduce you to the Damage Control II. Damage Control II: meet the Hulk. Hulk - you now have enough EHP to survive a T2 Catalyst gank with perfect skills in highsec - and you STILL have 1 Low slot, 4 mid slots and two rig slots left to work with. So dispense with the misinformation, please.
I think his point is the hulk's inability to fit two MSEs at once without powergrid mods, rigs, and implants.
The Drake is a Lie |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1443
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:09:00 -
[454] - Quote
Ditra Vorthran wrote:Why is it okay for gankers to tell miners that we should bring 'moar tank,' but when miners tell gankers to bring 'moar dps' they're somehow out of line?
because the miners did nothing for it?
a rogue goon |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1186
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:10:00 -
[455] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:Dave stark wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:Dave stark wrote:neither. the profitability of suicide ganking in this context has nothing to do with cargo value, stop thinking it does.  are you really that dumb? really? because ganking a 17k cargo space hulk for it's cargo means using a ship worth less than about 2-3m even a cheap destroyer would struggle to find profit in the dropped cargo. unless of course there was a source of income from that suicide gank other than the cargo.... I think you need to realise that suiciders gank people FOR MORE THAN ONE REASON AT ONCE jeez what does people's reasons for ganking have to do with it's profitability? are you really that dumb?
Reasons to suicide a ship for:
THE LULZ
THE CARGO
THE MODS
THE SALVAGE
THE TEARS
ANNOYING A SHIPTOASTER FROM THE FORUMS
I really dont know what you are trying to argue anymore, other than your expensive ship shouldnt ever die to anything with a lower value?
My homeboys tried to warn me
But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
267
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:10:00 -
[456] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Dave stark wrote:the modules dropped from an exhumer exceeds the cost of the ship destroying it. is that the same with a freighter? Well, yes?
i meant modules dropped from ship's fittings, not from ship's cargo.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
pussnheels
480
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:11:00 -
[457] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:pussnheels wrote:adapt or leave ahahahaha that's the same advice we gave to the miners, "fit a tank" "try drones that don't mine" "try not going AFK" but they felt entitled to have their max-yield fits AND a damnation-sized tank so they cried to CCP
i didn't asked for your opinion nor do i want your opinion , eventually it will be crybabies and white trash teenagers , the ones your alliance is mostly made of will kill this game , now sod off
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
The Marmite Collective
2044
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:11:00 -
[458] - Quote
How to properly tank a hulk.
You can increase your EHP by 150% from the base hulk. You just have to give up cargo expanders and the ~15% yield boost from MLUs. Welcome to balance, where you have to choose between productivity and security.
The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1443
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:12:00 -
[459] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:Dave stark wrote:no, you fit your ship to do missions as efficiently as possible. that's the same thing as fitting to mine as efficiently as possible.
i have no problem with hulkaggedon, if you want to gank me i think you're perfectly entitled to do so; provided you actually have to put some effort in to it and not just use ships costing less than the contents of my jetcan. the tears from the gankers about this buff is the fact that they're no longer able to do it in throwaway ships and have to put some kind of investment in to ******* up some one's day. hard life isn't it?
So you are happy that CCP are effectively throwing ship balance out of the window to 'protect' hisec miners? Of course, i shouldnt really expect people to care about game balance when you just chew on rocks for a living yeah because a destroyer destroying a t2 ship worth close to 300m in a matter of seconds is perfectly balanced? ok.
yes, it is, if the guy in the 300m ship did nothing to repel that gank
CCP is literally throwing ship balance out the window.
a rogue goon |
Pipa Porto
506
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:14:00 -
[460] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:Dave stark wrote:no, you fit your ship to do missions as efficiently as possible. that's the same thing as fitting to mine as efficiently as possible.
i have no problem with hulkaggedon, if you want to gank me i think you're perfectly entitled to do so; provided you actually have to put some effort in to it and not just use ships costing less than the contents of my jetcan. the tears from the gankers about this buff is the fact that they're no longer able to do it in throwaway ships and have to put some kind of investment in to ******* up some one's day. hard life isn't it?
So you are happy that CCP are effectively throwing ship balance out of the window to 'protect' hisec miners? Of course, i shouldnt really expect people to care about game balance when you just chew on rocks for a living yeah because a destroyer destroying a t2 ship worth close to 300m in a matter of seconds is perfectly balanced? ok.
If the owner of said T2 Ship doesn't bother to fit a tank, sure it's balanced. Because that's what's required for a T2 fit Destroyer to kill a Hulk.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8765
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:15:00 -
[461] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:a ship destroying another ship who's modules are worth more than the ganker's ship in a matter of seconds is perfectly balanced? Yes.
Cost is not a balancing factor. The worth or value of a ship's modules is utterly irrelevant.
Soundwave repeating the mistakes of old and forgetting this very simple and perennially true fact is thoroughly heart-rending.
Ditra Vorthran wrote:Why is it okay for gankers to tell miners that we should bring 'moar tank,' but when miners tell gankers to bring 'moar dps' they're somehow out of line? Because the miners never did it and thus aren't a party in the conversation. Had miners ever been intelligent enough to fit a tank, and gankers whined that suddenly ships survived, then the miners could have countered with that argument, just like how gankers countered the miner's whines with GÇ£fit a tankGÇ¥.
What we have here, though, is that the miners never did anything to warrant the need to tell the gankers what to do.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1443
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:16:00 -
[462] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Cost is not a balancing factor. The worth or value of a ship's modules is utterly irrelevant.
Soundwave repeating the mistakes of old and forgetting this very simple and perennially true fact is thoroughly heart-rending.
If Soundwave wasn't either trolling or using the wrong words, well, his post is pretty much the death of the PvP MMO.
a rogue goon |
Arvantis Sauril
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:17:00 -
[463] - Quote
Quote:
When/IF these changes go live, what is stopping you from ganking ever Exhumer and mining barge in new eden? NOTHING
Nothing has changed, except you won't be able to use a Thrasher anymore, you will need quite a few friends
NOTHING ELSE HAS CHANGED
That is the definition of change my friend. What once was possible, is no longer.
Risk vs reward. Effort vs AFK.
Why should an unarmed mining ship feel like it is 100% safe in space? Space is so unbelievably massive that it is impossible to comprehend. Why should one lone miner in an exhumer feel 100% safe from possible attack while mining some asteroids? As Mara Rin (spelling?) said, the separation of smart, active miners, from those who choose to always fit for yield is effectively destroyed by this change. Hi sec mining becomes only about how many characters you can throw at the rocks. (And maybe it always was, but with these changes there is no longer predation, of any kind.)
These changes point at the game becoming more segregated, which is a terrible idea, imo. I understand that a great many mining players were very unhappy at losing their expensive ships to incentivized predation, but this is about the worst possible way to address that issue. A minor buff to the mining ships to help them not get obliterated by a destroyer and instead require a gank cruiser? Fine. But this? This is...a bit much.
If there was some huge fee that you had to pay to Concord for protection, or if all the asteroids in hi-sec vanished, then, ok, but creating or rewarding any kind of activity with low player interaction while at the same time making DEV Blogs about changing Moon goo due to the high rewards vs low interaction it requires on a micro scale, that just makes me wonder why I bothered getting a 3 month sub 4 days ago. You cannot reward it on one side and punish it on the other. When you do that you are no different than WoW devs tuning the "knobs" when encounters are too difficult. is this a theme park or is it a space sandbox? |
Pipa Porto
506
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:20:00 -
[464] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Dramaticus wrote:I HAVE TO FIT SOMETHING OTHER THAN MINING LASER UPGRADES IF I WANT TO SURVIVE THIS IS AN OUTRAGE CCP AS A LOYAL CUSTOMER I DEMAND SATISFACTION THIS IS AGAINST MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS it's more to do with the fact that the hulk can't fit a tank without fitting mods that's the issue. having to tank my hulk is fine; however the hulk doesn't have the fitting requirements to do so without fitting mods. i've never had to use fitting mods to fit a combat ship, ever. combat ships have the power grid and cpu to fill all their mid and low slots without fitting mods, why should a hulk be forced to use fitting mods to fill all the slots on the ship?
The following combat ships require at least one fitting mod.
Arty Cane
Every Logistics ship Ever.
Hellcats (that T2 Elutrition rig? That's a fitting mod)
100mn Tengus (Officer Fitting mods, even).
Stealth Bombers
Fleet Dictors
AHACs (Zealots need their RCU)
Sniper HACs
You haven't flown many combat ships, have you?
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Danny Diamonds
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:20:00 -
[465] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Tippia wrote:Cost is not a balancing factor. The worth or value of a ship's modules is utterly irrelevant.
Soundwave repeating the mistakes of old and forgetting this very simple and perennially true fact is thoroughly heart-rending. If Soundwave wasn't either trolling or using the wrong words, well, his post is pretty much the death of the PvP MMO.
So increasing the EHP on Exhumers killed EVE?
*dies laughing*
Richard Desturned Troll is best troll. |
Ditra Vorthran
State War Academy
Caldari State
87
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:21:00 -
[466] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:because the miners did nothing for it?
I disagree. I had to do a lot to get my hulk. A heck of a lot more than people have to do to get destroyers.
"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:22:00 -
[467] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Because the miners never did it and thus aren't a party in the conversation. Had miners ever been intelligent enough to fit a tank, and gankers whined that suddenly ships survived, then the miners could have countered with that argument, just like how gankers countered the miner's whines with GÇ£fit a tankGÇ¥.
Do you want to test your theory? |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1443
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:22:00 -
[468] - Quote
Ditra Vorthran wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:because the miners did nothing for it? I disagree. I had to do a lot to get my hulk. A heck of a lot more than people have to do to get destroyers.
Great, did you do anything to protect it from being suicide ganked? No.
a rogue goon |
Pipa Porto
506
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:22:00 -
[469] - Quote
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:
Someone missed the ENTIRE point.
Its not supposed to be good profits to gank a Hulk mining in a belt.
OFCOURSE its still gonna be profitable to gank people hauling around valuable stuff.
Or else they would need to, in theory, find a way to make it more expensive to get a ship able to gank an Ibis hauling 5 plex than whatever you might get from the drop after the Ibis is dead, which in theory could be 5 plex = 2bil +
It's not profitably at all to gank a Hulk mining in a belt, unless the Hulk pilot chooses not to protect their investment by fitting a proper tank.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1443
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:23:00 -
[470] - Quote
Danny Diamonds wrote:So increasing the EHP on Exhumers killed EVE?
*dies laughing*
Richard Desturned Troll is best troll.
Not necessarily, but Soundwave saying "well you should lose more than the victim in hisec" along with what I've seen of their intentions with the insurance nerf, Crimewatch, this dumbing down of the game - yeah, welcome to a risk-free hisec.
a rogue goon |
Pipa Porto
506
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:25:00 -
[471] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Tippia wrote:Because the miners never did it and thus aren't a party in the conversation. Had miners ever been intelligent enough to fit a tank, and gankers whined that suddenly ships survived, then the miners could have countered with that argument, just like how gankers countered the miner's whines with GÇ£fit a tankGÇ¥. Do you want to test your theory?
9,000 Exhumer kills says that most miners don't bother taking any steps to safeguard their 300m investment.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone |
Kyra Yaken
State War Academy
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:25:00 -
[472] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Ditra Vorthran wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:because the miners did nothing for it? I disagree. I had to do a lot to get my hulk. A heck of a lot more than people have to do to get destroyers. Great, did you do anything to protect it from being suicide ganked? No.
Sweet, nor did gankers to fit dessy. Now gankers will have to work harder for thier kills |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8765
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:26:00 -
[473] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Do you want to test your theory? What theory?
Kyra Yaken wrote:Sweet, nor did gankers to fit dessy. Fun fact: a destroyer could never kill a Hulk unless the Hulk pilot actively chose to make it happen.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
dexington
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:27:00 -
[474] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote: ... this dumbing down of the game - yeah, welcome to a risk-free hisec.
How can it be dumping down the game, when they make it harder for the gankers?
GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥-á |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1443
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:28:00 -
[475] - Quote
dexington wrote:Richard Desturned wrote: ... this dumbing down of the game - yeah, welcome to a risk-free hisec. How can it be dumping down the game, when they make it harder for the gankers?
oh right, I forgot that gankers are actually the only players in the equation here
hint: they made it easier for the miners
a rogue goon |
Danny Diamonds
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:29:00 -
[476] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Danny Diamonds wrote:So increasing the EHP on Exhumers killed EVE?
*dies laughing*
Richard Desturned Troll is best troll. Not necessarily, but Soundwave saying "well you should lose more than the victim in hisec" along with what I've seen of their intentions with the insurance nerf, Crimewatch, this dumbing down of the game - yeah, welcome to a risk-free hisec.
So you can't be bothered to bring more dps to the fight? I fail to see the issue.
Or are you mad that cycling alts due to SEC status loss wont be as fast anymore because you need more than one? Maybe you could just grind your SEC status back up (as intended) instead of just using ALTS like ammo? |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1443
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:31:00 -
[477] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:The following combat ships require at least one fitting mod.
Arty Cane
Every Logistics ship Ever.
Hellcats (that T2 Elutrition rig? That's a fitting mod)
100mn Tengus (Officer Fitting mods, even).
Stealth Bombers
Fleet Dictors
AHACs (Zealots need their RCU)
Sniper HACs
You haven't flown many combat ships, have you?
let's not forget that amarr battleships can't fit a full rack of tachyon lasers (that's without a plate or anything else) without fitting mods or ACR rigs
oh and virtually every t1/t2/faction frigate fitting needs at least an MAPC, i don't get why dudes are whining about "i need fitting mods and that doesn't let me fit MY MLUS because I shouldn't make sacrifices to fit a tank like everyone else in this game because I am a special snowflake, a miner"
a rogue goon |
Ditra Vorthran
State War Academy
Caldari State
87
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:32:00 -
[478] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Great, did you do anything to protect it from being suicide ganked? No.
Unless you've been staring over my shoulder watching how/when/where I mine, you can't answer that question, so stop putting words in my mouth.
And no, no one has ever successfuly ganked me.
"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:34:00 -
[479] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Not necessarily, but Soundwave saying "well you should lose more than the victim in hisec" along with what I've seen of their intentions with the insurance nerf, Crimewatch, this dumbing down of the game - yeah, welcome to a risk-free hisec.
Soundwave didn't say that.
If you find a shuttle full of PLEXes or freighter full of officer mods go ahead and do whatever you want. If they're stupid enough to haul those they really deserve to lose it. How much is salvage worth? Not much. Most of your profit comes from items dropped from cargohold.
Ganking a Hulk and getting 25M worth of salvage from wreck is different story.
Or just go shoot people in lowsec/nullsec/wormhole. Very good chance that some of them might shoot back. |
Sarcasim
The Southern Gentleman's Social Club
Event Horizon Protocol
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:34:00 -
[480] - Quote
Would someone please call the WHAAAAMBULANCE...we seem to have alot of butthurt people in eve. |
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