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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 57 post(s) |
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CCP Bayesian
409
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Back at the end of February CCP t0rfifrans announced Team Avatar and that one of our priorities was prototyping, specifically to:
"...create playable gameplay prototypes of gameplay features and try them out within the team, and within the company... The purpose of all this prototyping is to make sure we provide a strong vision for avatar gameplay, have a good demonstrable idea of why it is engaging and better understand the technology we will need to create in order to make it a reality."
The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information!
Extra-Vehicular Activity, Wrecks and Exploration
There has been an idea kicking around CCP for a long time now about an ideal starting point for avatar gameplay. That is exploring hazardous environments in order to get awesome stuff. Think scanning down a site before entering it in order to find and salvage artifacts, technology and other goodies. Sounds straightforward and it would be but for the dangerous nature of delving into long lost places where time has taken its toll on the structure and the previous owners may not have left things in a benign state. In true EVE style throw in the added dangers of lurking competition and things have a chance to go south fast. The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few.
Over three months we concentrated on the minute by minute gameplay of actually being inside a long abandoned structure, the hazards that it would contain and how the players might deal with them and any uninvited guests. We used the Unity engine which is a great game engine for prototyping in as it lets us create environments and gameplay very, very fast and iterate on it equally quickly. A lot of our art is much more abstract (a "grey box") than youGÇÖd see in a final game. This is due to us concentrating on the gameplay first and foremost whilst also recognizing that ambience plays an important role in how a game feels. We do throw in the occasional EVE asset here and there for flavor but those are not descriptive of any final theming or style.
The gameplay premise is simple, players move through our abandoned structures with their fitted Extra-Vehicular Activity suit, using their wits, tools and teammates to deal with the hazardous environment. Some of us are enthusiastically and maliciously killing teammates for personal gain. WeGÇÖve even allowed two teams into the environment to really let all hell break loose.
ItGÇÖs a part of the EVE Universe
There have been a lot of questions on the forums about how this integrates with EVE. Whilst this isnGÇÖt the core focus for us at the moment it is something we are thinking about long and hard. Like DUST514, this part of EVE should contribute to the overall economy as well as supporting its own ecosystem. Right now weGÇÖre thinking that these abandoned structures are so dangerous, radioactive and toxic, that they can only be entered with special suits. Obviously with access to clones you arenGÇÖt worried about radiation and long term health effects of hazardous lifestyles. You probably all smoke and eat lots of bacon as well and besides robots wonGÇÖt survive the violent EM fields. Robot electronics would toast, thus only teams using gear that involves crude electronics, like found in EM resistant military hardware can go in and recover the technology that lies within. One example of a link with EVE gameplay weGÇÖre thinking of would be to put implant manufacture into the hands of players and making avatar gameplay part of the resource gathering chain it has. We want to make Avatar gameplay a viable and vibrant part of the Universe without forcing anyone that doesnGÇÖt want to use it from having to use it.
A benefit from the EVA game is that a lot of the technology that would need to be developed to properly deliver the EVA experience would be directly useful in providing social areas and tools in stations.
That just sounds like one idea...
We decided to concentrate in depth on the one idea that has kept resurfacing from lots of different places within the company. WeGÇÖve had several others and collected a lot both internally and from the forums. One example would be a Station based espionage system. The beauty of the EVE Universe is that these ideas arenGÇÖt mutually exclusive for the most part. So whilst I think we are fairly sure of the initial gameplay direction there is lots of scope for expansion.
EVE Software Engineer Team Avatar |
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CCP Unifex
C C P C C P Alliance
242
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
It has been fantastic to see the Avatar team show everyone that there is meaningful gameplay using more than just your ship as your agent in the EVE Universe. The prototyping work they have done in Unity has allowed them to rapidly explore different themes and make a game which is challenging, fun and in the true spirit of EVE.
At CCP we are now making sure that when great gameplay concepts such as these come along, we take time to assess what would be required to take them out of the concept phase, into our engine, through pre-production and into production. We must also consider how it interacts with everything else we are doing both within EVE and CCP as a whole. One of the great achievements of this piece of work is that it has really proved it is possible to rapidly iterate on new experiences without having to make a huge investment up front.
Once this prototype was demoed and I had played it (being beaten by CCP Explorer and team in the process), then came the next part. Working out what would be needed to put this concept into the game for real. The team worked together to put a pre-production and production plan together using what they had learned over the previous months and also the lessons learned from the Incarna efforts from last year.
The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond. Executive Producer of EVE Online |
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Adoro
Reikoku The Retirement Club
10
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
An avatar used to be a little picture everybody ignored with the occasional "dude your face". I still treat it that way... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
917
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
EVA, eh? That's actually not such a bad idea for avatar based gameplay. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1573
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yay Team Avatar makes a comeback , would it be possible to have an official dev blog and a sneak peek at what you've been working on? I know that there was one in the works a while back but it never materialised Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Alice Saki
9329
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
TATTOO'S :D Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
227
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Guns... or clubs? And Strip-clubs! |
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CCP Bayesian
411
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Yay Team Avatar makes a comeback , would it be possible to have an official dev blog and a sneak peek at what you've been working on? I know that there was one in the works a while back but it never materialised
This forum posted is an edited version of that devblog and sorry the video won't be coming out. We should be doing another roundtable at fanfest though. EVE Software Engineer Team Avatar |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1573
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:
This forum posted is an edited version of that devblog and sorry the video won't be coming out. We should be doing another roundtable at fanfest though.
Bugger , was worth a try though Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
462
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
sounds cool... but don't focus too much energy on it... you still need to fix much more in space also... I would rather have you develope this slowly, while fixing in space faster than having you rush this stuff out Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
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Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
722
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Good to see CCP is focusing its talents and not smearing them out over lord knows how many projects.
Sounds great tough! Meaningful avatar play.
Don't forget to use one of those bars you see/saw floating in some missions to put those in use as well, when ever you get to allocate the sources needed for this. When ever I ran into those I always thought of 'Porky's in space'. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
383
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us? |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2757
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Anslo wrote:So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us?
No. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
723
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Anslo wrote:So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us?
How in himmelsname did you get to that? Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Heian Galanodel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
11
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Looking forward to it! I can wait. Patience. Waiting.
/me looks at his wristwatch.
Waiting.
/me taps foot.
/me looks up and sees people.
/me smiles and waves. "I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die."-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á -From Blade Runner- |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
383
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Anslo wrote:So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us? How in himmelsname did you get to that?
Well the door needs unlocked to go get the EVA suit?....I just want non-spaceshippy sci fi gameplay sprinkled with the spaceship gameplay. This isn't supposed to be space ship only. Eve set out to be the world's largest and greatest SCIENCE FICTION SIMULATOR, not just a spaceship simulator. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
356
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
384
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential
I'd rather see those
*SPOILERS*
zombie caretaker things the architects left behind that attacked the first Amarrians to explore inside a Sleeper facility
*SPOILERS*
than any rogue drone. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2759
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential
Well it would be kind of disappointing to enter an abandoned radiation filled space station, that is too hazardous for complex electronics to work, only to find out that all the lights and artificial gravity are working without problems. |
Alice Saki
9347
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
(Zero Gravity)
:P Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
386
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential Well it would be kind of disappointing to enter an abandoned radiation filled space station, that is too hazardous for complex electronics to work, only to find out that all the lights and artificial gravity are working without problems.
Anything other than seeing areas like this when walking into a sleeper facility will disappoint me. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
356
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
More than that, I am an immortal capsuleer capable of taking and discarding planets, flesh and souls as a child would toys, and I do not expect having to tolerate wearing boots of the non-magneto variety |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
888
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
First of all I want to say that I love this idea, and if/when it comes out I'll probably play the hell out of it.
BUT, and this is the big but:
How does it fit into EVE as a game?
Without seeing the prototype, judging only by your post, I just can't see any connection between my exploration party derping around a space station looking for artifacts, and the grand political strategy of empires made up of thousands of players fighting each other for space dominance. It could just as well be a whole new game set in the EVE universe, only loosely if at all connected to the EVE game at all (not unlike Dust).
I don't see how the avatar gameplay could bring anything new to the player-player interaction EVE is based upon. In the form you describe it as, I don't expect it to become anything more than PI right now - just a gimmicky minigame to gather X resource. Only without the meta-game of fighting over planets. I don't see why I should prefer EVE-avatar-sim over activating a codebreaker module, and playing a proper full FPS/3PS game afterwards.
And just to show that I'm not simply whining for the sake of keeping the status quo, here is my idea I came up with in about 10 minutes:
Many people want there to be more significant content for smaller groups of people. So allow players to board/infiltrate an enemy Infrastructure hub, and hack the upgrades installed within. Or for larger squads even disable station services. The IHub's owners in the same system will be alerted can also enter and defend it. Otherwise it's defended by automated platforms (possibly allow these to be upgraded as an IHub upgrade too).
If the attacker succeeds, the hacked upgrade(s) will be disabled for a period of time, or until the attackers are driven out by the defenders. The longer the attacker can hold the hack, the longer the upgrades are disabled. This encourages both sides to reinforce the ongoing avatar battle with more spaceships bringing in troops, and to stop the enemy from doing the same. If the respawn mechanic of avatars somehow depends on who is holding the space grid over the IHub, the fight could quickly escalate to a battle both in space and in the corridors.
Once it works out and if people generally like it, it could also be implemented as an alternative way of reinforcing or taking over IHubs - instead of blowing it up and putting up your own, you could simply take it over with ground troops. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
102
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Oh boy i like... "it put ore down in can or it gets the hose again" |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2760
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential Well it would be kind of disappointing to enter an abandoned radiation filled space station, that is too hazardous for complex electronics to work, only to find out that all the lights and artificial gravity are working without problems. Anything other than seeing areas like this when walking into a sleeper facility will disappoint me.
I'm just hoping they make the most of the premise they have created. Altering gravity and lighting conditions should be taken in to account and possible allow them to be re-enabled through exploring the site. It would allow for more intense atmosphere, more creative maps and additional gameplay by allowing them to be restored. Such restoration could allow access to previously locked areas within the site or just make it easier notice items of opportunity, that are easy to miss in the darkness. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
912
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
/me waves hand
Make it so!
Seriously, great exciting treat today from you guys.
Don't hesitate and delay. Also the espionage gameplay sounds great, and I'd like to see it fleshed out as well.
Gratz on finally getting the blog out! Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
257
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Posted - 2012.10.09 12:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Unifex wrote: So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
Thanks for both the decision and you informing us about it.
Just one question.
Will Team Avatar (in current (former?) or new form) be allowed to continue to look for (and prototype) new possible gameplay once the current "Expansion Frenzy" is over?
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Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
386
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Without seeing the prototype, judging only by your post, I just can't see any connection between my exploration party derping around a space station looking for artifacts, and the grand political strategy of empires made up of thousands of players fighting each other for space dominance. It could just as well be a whole new game set in the EVE universe, only loosely if at all connected to the EVE game at all (not unlike Dust).
Because DUSTies stay on planets like the plebs they are. As capsuleers vying for dominance, we all seek any way possible to one up each other, including but not limited to exploring Sleeper derelicts looking for shinies to use. Think of it as exploration anomalies, but on a station, in a suit, and with a gun in your hands.
Quote:I don't see how the avatar gameplay could bring anything new to the player-player interaction EVE is based upon. In the form you describe it as, I don't expect it to become anything more than PI right now - just a gimmicky minigame to gather X resource. Only without the meta-game of fighting over planets. I don't see why I should prefer EVE-avatar-sim over activating a codebreaker module, and playing a proper full FPS/3PS game afterwards.
Are you trolling? Player-player interaction with humanized avatar's tend to humanize the players themselves as opposed to making them abstract hunks of metal. People like interacting with people, not hulls. Just because YOU don't doesn't mean others wouldn't like it. It's a more fun experience to invade and look around for tech than sit there in a ship while your codebreaker cycle. Not everyone enjoys dull experiences. Change can be good.
Quote:Many people want there to be more significant content for smaller groups of people. So allow players to board/infiltrate an enemy Infrastructure hub, and hack the upgrades installed within. Or for larger squads even disable station services. The IHub's owners in the same system will be alerted can also enter and defend it. Otherwise it's defended by automated platforms (possibly allow these to be upgraded as an IHub upgrade too). If the attacker succeeds, the hacked upgrade(s) will be disabled for a period of time, or until the attackers are driven out by the defenders. The longer the attacker can hold the hack, the longer the upgrades are disabled. This encourages both sides to reinforce the ongoing avatar battle with more spaceships bringing in troops, and to stop the enemy from doing the same. If the respawn mechanic of avatars somehow depends on who is holding the space grid over the IHub, the fight could quickly escalate to a battle both in space and in the corridors. Me gusta....seriously, with a stealth infiltration ship, this kind of gives small corps an upper hand versus the big guy. I like.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
44
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cold, dark places, also far from safe. I think I will like it. But please, don't make it in the way that someone can one-shoot you. It would kill all fun. About WIS |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
386
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Cold, dark places, also far from safe. I think I will like it. But please, don't make it in the way that someone can one-shoot you. It would kill all fun. Are you kidding? That'd make it MORE fun. Picture it, exploring a sleeper station, harvesting some stuff. Suddenly that jerk that podded you a few weeks back and spammed your mail is in the same station...problem is he isn't so "hard core" outside his ship and he sucks at FPS/3PS style gameplay. You however, do not....
:3 |
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
888
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Because DUSTies stay on planets like the plebs they are. As capsuleers vying for dominance, we all seek any way possible to one up each other, including but not limited to exploring Sleeper derelicts looking for shinies to use. Think of it as exploration anomalies, but on a station, in a suit, and with a gun in your hands.
I don't see how - again, in the grand scheme of things - this is any different from exploring anomalies from my battlecruiser by shooting said sleepers with space guns. Other than the switch of the gaming genre to one perhaps not everybody (myself included) particularly enjoys. End result is the same, you go in, you shoot some NPCs, you get loot. Only the visuals differ.
Is it cool, new and awesome? Definitely!
Would I like to see CCP spend time on this instead of a working treaty system, corporation management tools, starbase mechanics, less tedious sov grinding? I don't think so. YMMV.
Anslo wrote:Are you trolling? Player-player interaction with humanized avatar's tend to humanize the players themselves as opposed to making them abstract hunks of metal. People like interacting with people, not hulls. Just because YOU don't doesn't mean others wouldn't like it.
I don't know how you play EVE, and I have nothing against your playstyle, whatever it is. But the way I play EVE I interact with other people daily. And I would definitely rather shoot other people in spaceships than shoot some meaningless respawning NPCs in an EVA suit. Again, YMMV. |
Mai Khumm
Omen Industries -Entropy-
284
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
This looks awesome...! Too bad it'll be years until we actually grt our hands on it!!! Since EVE will be pay to win very soon. --> 65 Mil SP subcap pilot/45 Mil SP Caldari-Indy Cap pilot looking for Powerbloc Coalition... |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
156
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:14:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sounds cool...curious. Carry on! |
Alice Saki
9348
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:This looks awesome...! Too bad it'll be years until we actually grt our hands on it!!!
You made me a Sad Panda Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
616
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
wait wait , you mean we can leave our pod in space to explore some ancient or not so ancient spaceshipwreck to look for things we can use to produce more things
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Arthay
7
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
Does that mean Boxy the Ninja is back? Veld for the Veld God!
If you find any misspelling or grammar errors, your allowed to keep them. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
44
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Cold, dark places, also far from safe. I think I will like it. But please, don't make it in the way that someone can one-shoot you. It would kill all fun. Are you kidding? That'd make it MORE fun. Picture it, exploring a sleeper station, harvesting some stuff. Suddenly that jerk that podded you a few weeks back and spammed your mail is in the same station...problem is he isn't so "hard core" outside his ship and he sucks at FPS/3PS style gameplay. You however, do not.... :3
Naaaah, there is nothing fun in "I WIN" button, skill, and weapon. I tried it in AoC. If you want it, you have to earn it. About WIS |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
387
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote: I don't see how - again, in the grand scheme of things - this is any different from exploring anomalies from my battlecruiser by shooting said sleepers with space guns. Other than the switch of the gaming genre to one perhaps not everybody (myself included) particularly enjoys. End result is the same, you go in, you shoot some NPCs, you get loot. Only the visuals differ. Is it cool, new and awesome? Definitely! Would I like to see CCP spend time on this instead of a working treaty system, corporation management tools, starbase mechanics, less tedious sov grinding? I don't think so.
OK think of it this way...how are you more able to get intact loot in greater volumes, extracting it EVA? Or blasting it to smithereens? Think about it. You'd get more intact and new items going in than just shooting em up. Picture this. We use PLEX for 30-days IGT. The implants DUSTies use are sleeper based. Maybe those same implants can be sold (intact) at high prices for bonus items or abilities, or as better gear or something. I don't know what you know about physics, but fragile items like implants, soldier armor and weaponry etc will not be standing up to a blast from 8 tachyon beams.
So while the lazy way would make the gameplay unnecessary as you say it is, the team is working hard tyo make sure its needed AND lucrative.
Quote:I don't know how you play EVE, and I have nothing against your playstyle, whatever it is. But the way I play EVE I interact with other people daily. And I would definitely rather shoot other people in spaceships than shoot some meaningless respawning NPCs in an EVA suit.
Whats to say you cant shoot someone else in the same station trying to harvest stuff at the same time? Whats the difference between shooting them? Oh right, you'd need skill to shoot them in a station instead of just clicking a gun in space. Hah.
You wanna stay in space? Stay in space. But if executed right, these sleeper stations will hold major loot that people will let slip by because HURRHURR EVE IS SPACESHIP GAEM ONLY HURR. Not saying you're like that, but there are a few out there like that. |
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CCP t0rfifrans
C C P C C P Alliance
468
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting. |
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
125
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Posted - 2012.10.09 13:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
confirming goodfeature
deadspace in my eve plz? I want to shoot stuff with a built in salvager and use built in tractor beam to grab far off debris. Electrical rewiring puzzle-majigs to reroute power to closed doors.
While you are at it build a "scan visor" into the suit, to scan certain objects and receive information about them, a-la Metroid Prime. That was honestly the best feature for people who want to nerd out in space exploration. Example:
"This creature has suffered severe lacerations to the sternum, resulting in fatal blood loss."
Could be a way of receiving hints on how to navigate the wreck. |
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1773
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
This sounds awesome guys. Props to Team Avatar! Any chance of seeing some of this at this years Fanfest? Even if it isn't in a playable form...just seeing the new ideas would be great.
Keep up the good work! EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
44
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
I don't believe it. Ganking in stations? About WIS |
|
CCP t0rfifrans
C C P C C P Alliance
471
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:31:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:This sounds awesome guys. Props to Team Avatar! Any chance of seeing some of this at this years Fanfest? Even if it isn't in a playable form...just seeing the new ideas would be great.
Keep up the good work! If possible we'd like to allow for a hands-on playtest at fanfest. More will be revealed as the hour draws near. |
|
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
386
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
So what are you trying to get in by winter? |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
388
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
While you are at it build a "scan visor" into the suit, to scan certain objects and receive information about them, a-la Metroid Prime. That was honestly the best feature for people who want to nerd out in space exploration. Example:
"This creature has suffered severe lacerations to the sternum, resulting in fatal blood loss."
Could be a way of receiving hints on how to navigate the wreck.
ALL OF MY WANT!! This feature would be amazing!!!
This would make me fall in love with Eve again.
|
Alice Saki
9351
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:This sounds awesome guys. Props to Team Avatar! Any chance of seeing some of this at this years Fanfest? Even if it isn't in a playable form...just seeing the new ideas would be great.
Keep up the good work! If possible we'd like to allow for a hands-on playtest at fanfest. More will be revealed as the hour draws near.
1st in line! Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
|
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
148
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:48:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:This sounds awesome guys. Props to Team Avatar! Any chance of seeing some of this at this years Fanfest? Even if it isn't in a playable form...just seeing the new ideas would be great.
Keep up the good work! If possible we'd like to allow for a hands-on playtest at fanfest. More will be revealed as the hour draws near.
Probably best and most exciting news to date. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
128
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
While you are at it build a "scan visor" into the suit, to scan certain objects and receive information about them, a-la Metroid Prime. That was honestly the best feature for people who want to nerd out in space exploration. Example:
"This creature has suffered severe lacerations to the sternum, resulting in fatal blood loss."
Could be a way of receiving hints on how to navigate the wreck.
ALL OF MY WANT!! This feature would be amazing!!! This would make me fall in love with Eve again.
Honestly, that feature is 60-70% the reason that Metroid Prime was such an acclaimed series, it basically seamlessly incorporates lore into gameplay, and people can choose to observe the lore or ignore it just based on their usage of scanning. Of course, not scanning would result in having less useful clues :P |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
388
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:52:00 -
[49] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Anslo wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
While you are at it build a "scan visor" into the suit, to scan certain objects and receive information about them, a-la Metroid Prime. That was honestly the best feature for people who want to nerd out in space exploration. Example:
"This creature has suffered severe lacerations to the sternum, resulting in fatal blood loss."
Could be a way of receiving hints on how to navigate the wreck.
ALL OF MY WANT!! This feature would be amazing!!! This would make me fall in love with Eve again. Honestly, that feature is 60-70% the reason that Metroid Prime was such an acclaimed series, it basically seamlessly incorporates lore into gameplay, and people can choose to observe the lore or ignore it just based on their usage of scanning. Of course, not scanning would result in having less useful clues :P
I'd love to scan different Sleeper alcoves or ruins or something. Hell what happens when you find a body and it is neither Sleeper...nor Jove...nor Empire human...Talocan? Tahkmal? THE POSSIBILITIES!!! LORE COULD BE SAVED!!! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
46
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
Quote:I'd love to scan different Sleeper alcoves or ruins or something. Hell what happens when you find a body and it is neither Sleeper...nor Jove...nor Empire human...Talocan? Tahkmal?
No U! About WIS |
|
Metal Icarus
Endless Destruction Against ALL Anomalies
290
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
My one concern is what happens to your ship while you are in EVA? Does your ship enter a stasis mode until you are dead? Can other people board your ship and steal it?
I think that this will make implants a much more interesting market! Even a profession! |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
129
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 13:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:My one concern is what happens to your ship while you are in EVA? Does your ship enter a stasis mode until you are dead? Can other people board your ship and steal it?
I think that this will make implants a much more interesting market! Even a profession!
It would be interesting if people could in fact board your ship, but upon docking at the wreck while a second person is docked, they land at the other side of the wreck. It would result in having to cross the wreck to reach the other pilot's ship, meaning a conflict would likely happen in the middle, or at least the person who knew they would be stealing would have to "stealth" past the other explorer.
Docking at the same spot and just turning around and boarding the other guy's ship just sounds a bit too easy :P |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
388
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 14:00:00 -
[53] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:My one concern is what happens to your ship while you are in EVA? Does your ship enter a stasis mode until you are dead? Can other people board your ship and steal it?
I think that this will make implants a much more interesting market! Even a profession! That would KILL it (in a good way). The risk would make those implants or harvested tech all the more expensive. And think of THIS.
How to make a Lore based segway into WiS proper? Well, why not use sleeper implants to modify capsuleers to be able to breath station air :p
But no really, the added risk of your ship being ****** up while you explore in the station coupled with getting ambushed...oh gawd. THAT'S pvp I could get into. |
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
101
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 14:09:00 -
[54] - Quote
Love the idea of one consistent universe with many types of games in it . Idea is both ridiculous and ingenious.
One day! |
Metal Icarus
Endless Destruction Against ALL Anomalies
291
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 14:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
This will end up leading to new salvage parts (think like rigs) and new blueprints. This will make implants a more common thing. Low-grades will end up being the norm for the average pvper, IMO that would make things much more interesting.
Solo PVP might actually come back!
A new profession i say! |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1027
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 14:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sounds interesting. Hope you can free up resources to work on it.
One thing concerns me about this being an open pvp area, even in high sec. In low or null, I could defend the people inside a structure by shooting any other ships that try and dock to insert their teams. In high sec...not so much. This is a basic imbalance that I think means you need to make high sec EVA exploration safer than that in low or null. One way to do that would be to say the high sec sites can only have one ship dock at a time, and only fleet members can funnel in through that one ship. Does that make it perfectly safe? No, safer but not safe. Fleet members can still kill each other, and the docked ship could be suicide ganked, allowing a second team in.
Next, I think the best goodies should be in low sec. High sec is picked over and only has scraps left. Null has not been populated long enough to have much (but more than none). Low has been populated long enough for alot to accumulate, but is not so populated that its been picked over. That, and low needs content.
Finally, CCP, you need to make sure multi-avatars work on all the different hardware us eve players use before content that can effect the game is released. We do not want the existence of implants to depend on content that fails to work for half the users. I suggest releasing multi-avatar content that has little impact first, and call it a technology test, before you do the major feature. Something as basic as social areas, or bars with gambling. That may be easy enough that you can slip it in with little impact to the FiS part of the game. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
723
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 14:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:This will end up leading to new salvage parts (think like rigs) and new blueprints. This will make implants a more common thing. Low-grades will end up being the norm for the average pvper, IMO that would make things much more interesting.
Solo PVP might actually come back!
A new profession i say!
Personally I think it may go the other way, implants get way more expensive.
Reason is i don't think CCP will, if they ever get around to implement this and if they go the player build implants way, they would be not wise to have the big catches around in high sec where the most players reside. Think of how exploration is distributed.
Also note this idea they have for avatar exploration:
Quote:The gameplay premise is simple, players move through our abandoned structures with their fitted Extra-Vehicular Activity suit, using their wits, tools and teammates to deal with the hazardous environment. Some of us are enthusiastically and maliciously killing teammates for personal gain. WeGÇÖve even allowed two teams into the environment to really let all hell break loose.
For me that means they will do their best (incursion style) to make this a team effort, not a solo game in a MMO. But well, all of this is a long, long way in the future.
I really like to see the POS revamp first. That part of EVE is really archaic. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient Electus Matari
210
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 14:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
:18 months:
Seriously, this is a nice way to introduce a new :jesus feature:
Please consider scheduling it as the next major feature after the funky POS is done. What is the point if every race has an Jam/Damp/Disruptor/ ship etc? Not every race has to be a fluffy little mirror of each other, it's seriously not needed. Things like Gallente having the only drone BS and Caldari having the only ECM BS are incredibly cool distinctions that only add to EVE in both game play value and flavour. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
365
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 14:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kenpachi Viktor wrote::18 months: Seriously, this is a nice way to introduce a new :jesus feature: Please consider scheduling it as the next major feature after the funky POS is done.
there are about 17 things i would consider more important than this
but thanks for the heads up, can't wait to see this in a fixed eve |
Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
325
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 14:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Finally, CCP, you need to make sure multi-avatars work on all the different hardware us eve players use before content that can effect the game is released. We do not want the existence of implants to depend on content that fails to work for half the users. I suggest releasing multi-avatar content that has little impact first, and call it a technology test, before you do the major feature. Something as basic as social areas, or bars with gambling. That may be easy enough that you can slip it in with little impact to the FiS part of the game. 100% this.
I imagine it summin like "Summer 2013 Expansion features: WiS Technology test - we shall open The Door for all you capsuleers to mingle around each station's common area." Seriously, I don't even need bars with gambling (although that would be ace). I just wanna know if my computer goes Chernobyl when it has to load more than, say, 10 different avatars. |
|
Jim Era
4324
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:01:00 -
[61] - Quote
wat |
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
7
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
THIS IS THE BEST BIRTHDAY PRESENT EVAAAR!!!!!!! |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
389
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:08:00 -
[63] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Kenpachi Viktor wrote::18 months: Seriously, this is a nice way to introduce a new :jesus feature: Please consider scheduling it as the next major feature after the funky POS is done. there are about 17 things i would consider more important than this but thanks for the heads up, can't wait to see this in a fixed eve
I was wondering when a nul tard would come in denouncing this awesome addition |
Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient Electus Matari
210
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:10:00 -
[64] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Kenpachi Viktor wrote::18 months: Seriously, this is a nice way to introduce a new :jesus feature: Please consider scheduling it as the next major feature after the funky POS is done. there are about 17 things i would consider more important than this but thanks for the heads up, can't wait to see this in a fixed eve
Indeed, there are a large number of things that need attention. But as far as I'm aware, the POS system is the largest in terms of code/art/hours needed, and this is on par with that. What is the point if every race has an Jam/Damp/Disruptor/ ship etc? Not every race has to be a fluffy little mirror of each other, it's seriously not needed. Things like Gallente having the only drone BS and Caldari having the only ECM BS are incredibly cool distinctions that only add to EVE in both game play value and flavour. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
703
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
So its nice to see that Team Avatar still lives and even a reply from From Unifex in it But again this is nothing new ,we already knew that you guys were prototyping. What you just said CCP Bayesian the same as a few months back .
If you can show some gameplay at fanfest ,fine with me ,go ahead ,maybe there will be less anti WIS people but the reason ,not being able to show something to back up your words is beyond me
If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
703
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:38:00 -
[66] - Quote
CCP Unifex wrote:It has been fantastic to see the Avatar team show everyone that there is meaningful gameplay using more than just your ship as your agent in the EVE Universe. The prototyping work they have done in Unity has allowed them to rapidly explore different themes and make a game which is challenging, fun and in the true spirit of EVE.
At CCP we are now making sure that when great gameplay concepts such as these come along, we take time to assess what would be required to take them out of the concept phase, into our engine, through pre-production and into production. We must also consider how it interacts with everything else we are doing both within EVE and CCP as a whole. One of the great achievements of this piece of work is that it has really proved it is possible to rapidly iterate on new experiences without having to make a huge investment up front.
Once this prototype was demoed and I had played it (being beaten by CCP Explorer and team in the process), then came the next part. Working out what would be needed to put this concept into the game for real. The team worked together to put a pre-production and production plan together using what they had learned over the previous months and also the lessons learned from the Incarna efforts from last year.
The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
So stop DUST and go on with EvE ?
nah just kidding
Again a lot of words ,but nothing to show for mister Unifex Show us what you like about that new Avatar gameplay
If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
607
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:55:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP Unifex wrote:good stuff. you need to post more often on the forums... kinda sad when a NPC forum troll has more likes then you...
you should have atleast 1000 likes... but unfortuantly i can only like your post once :( Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
155
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:57:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Unifex wrote: (...)
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
After
- you give us a new login system where I can change chars in the same account without the need to login again
- you gives a new and improved POS (POS revamp)
- you fix sov
- you fix the black ops and electronic attack ships
- you find a proper role for titans and supers in the battle field
- you finished the ships tiercide (including caps)
- you give us all the remaining ships (including caps) with the shader v3 skins
- you allow us to fly customized painted ships
- You replace the ugliest ships in this game with new hulls
- you give us a new overview, local, chats and industry UI, you fix the inventory windows
- You fix null-sec industry
- you fix moon mining
- you improve invention and manufacturing mechanics;
- you give alliances the proper tools to tax corps, mining and moon mining, get rent money from (blue) POS in their space
- you give alliances, corps and players tools to make military , trade, ratting, mining, moon mining agreements (a.k.a treaties)
- you give us more t3 ships
- you give us more end-of-game contents for vets like achievements, more skills, more caps like carriers T2
- you fix/improve more and more visual effects
- you make mining fun (I can dream right?)
- and you fix the problems that **** of PI dudes now for 2 years and maybe throw them a couple more skills to train
you go right ahead, give us the avatars and station walking, until then, this please ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Allow us to change characters of the same account without the need to logout and put the password again. |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
606
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 15:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
When do we get hats? Xenuria CSM 8 |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
389
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:00:00 -
[70] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote: SANDBOX IN MY WAY ONLY!!!
People like you are a hindrance to this game becoming the greatest SCI FI SIMULATOR on the planet. Kindly biomass. |
|
PinkKnife
L F C Ethereal Dawn
251
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:03:00 -
[71] - Quote
So WIS is all but dead then, Huzzah
Why not just hire more people <.< |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
703
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Unforgiven Storm wrote: SANDBOX IN MY WAY ONLY!!!
People like you are a hindrance to this game becoming the greatest SCI FI SIMULATOR on the planet. Kindly biomass.
No ,he does not have to . A lot of people want WIS ,including me ,but to keep everybody happy, bugchasing EvE and make it look better has to go on.
If that means WIS comes later ok with me
If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
269
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:19:00 -
[73] - Quote
" when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
-gameplay -stand alone ecosystem -connection with greater EVE ecosystem
A bunch of dudes dressing up and emoting each other is not any of the above. I am glad TA has indicated that they understand this, and are not going to go the quick and dirty route. wis is nothing but bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1238
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:25:00 -
[74] - Quote
Cant wait for next fanfest. Hopefully you can put skeptics in their place (deep in a station getting radiation poisoning). |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
704
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:28:00 -
[75] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:" when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
-gameplay -stand alone ecosystem -connection with greater EVE ecosystem
A bunch of dudes dressing up and emoting each other is not any of the above. I am glad TA has indicated that they understand this, and are not going to go the quick and dirty route.
That makes a lot more people happy ,believe me ,but we still don,t know what to expect with this so called gameplay If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
61
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:53:00 -
[76] - Quote
I'm completely down with this! It would be a new area of the game entirely, meaning older players with more assets do not automatically have an advantage over newer players who may in fact be more cunning.
Really, I'm just looking forwad to killing people outside of their pods. I really really am. You'll give us assault rifles, right? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1578
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
By assault rifle you mean one of these, right? Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
394
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 16:59:00 -
[78] - Quote
This is the only acceptable form of weapon for Eve.
Overkill best kill. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1578
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 17:00:00 -
[79] - Quote
Anslo wrote:This is the only acceptable form of weapon for Eve. Overkill best kill.
I'm Minmatar sir, bringing moar Dakka is compulsory. Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
1061
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 17:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
This is what Avatar based gameplay should be for. Add in the social station stuff too by all means but what any good scifi needs is a tense atmosphere and heavy breathing in EVA suits just waiting for teh next bad thing to happen... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
|
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2764
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 17:08:00 -
[81] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Anslo wrote:This is the only acceptable form of weapon for Eve. Overkill best kill. I'm Minmatar sir, bringing moar Dakka is compulsory.
Something like this? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1578
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 17:11:00 -
[82] - Quote
Yarp, definitely something like that, if at first you don't succeed, bring more firepower. Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
47
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 17:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
What with balance? Stealth mode? Autotargeting? ( I hope not ) Skills???
Or "here's OP shotgun, point it away from you, when you hear something, just shoot, shoot, shoot"? About WIS |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1241
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 17:19:00 -
[84] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:What with balance? Stealth mode? Autotargeting? ( I hope not ) Skills???
Or "here's OP shotgun, point it away from you, when you hear something, just shoot, shoot, shoot"?
Skills? Skills?! SKILLS! Of course. its not a part of eve without skills. Door repair lvl 4 Holding breath lvl 3 Shotgun spread lvl 5 Cowering in corner lvl 2 Trigger press due to structure creaking lvl 5 |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
1120
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 17:28:00 -
[85] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote: One example of a link with EVE gameplay weGÇÖre thinking of would be to put implant manufacture into the hands of players and making avatar gameplay part of the resource gathering chain it has. We want to make Avatar gameplay a viable and vibrant part of the Universe without forcing anyone that doesnGÇÖt want to use it from having to use it.
Which is all well and good, but the developers need to stop inventing items which are only constructed from a single source of materials. Anything above frigate / entry level stuff should pull from multiple existing *and* new material sources. When creating recipes or adjusting existing recipes, you should be looking for opportunities to make use of existing materials that are currently undesired due to low demand.
Such as: - The "biological" Planetary Interaction products - The "garbage" salvaged materials (contaminated, fried interface, defective current pumps) - Gas mining output - R.A.M. and R.Db - Ice products - Moon materials - Plain old minerals |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
394
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 17:30:00 -
[86] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote: - The "biological" Planetary Interaction products
Requesting Bacterial Armor Reps for my ship that pulses blue. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
911
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 17:31:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:. The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few. I'll be back to comment further once I've changed my underwear. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1241
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 17:40:00 -
[88] - Quote
Would be nice if it supplied both itself, eve and dust materials with multi useful looting. Find a cache of ancient weapons, like x25 Blood Raider laser rifles you can sell to dusters or trade to your personal dust character. Or reprocess the same equipment for new implant or EVA suit salvage. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
912
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 18:04:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:The gameplay premise is simple, players move through our abandoned structures with their fitted Extra-Vehicular Activity suit, using their wits, tools and teammates to deal with the hazardous environment. I take this to mean that our avatars won't appear in their current 'Incarna' state of flying jackets/aviator shades/leather boots? While this would be a logical conclusion of operating in hazardous environments, it will inevitably disappoint some. Any thoughts on customising EVA-suits like we currently do for our avatars in the character creator? I really want to just stomp around in a personalised powered spacesuit.
At the same time, WiS needs to make players feel vulnerable. We're omnipotent in our spaceships but vulnerable without the safety of a pod, so turn the Eve player's conceptions upside down and remove the comforts of EHP and DPS. If WiS becomes another environment where superpowerful demigods fry thousands of NPCs at a time with mega pulse lasers then all you're doing is replicating the existing gameplay with some different graphics and you may as well save it for DUST. PvE in WiS should be more The Sentinel than Doom , and PvP should be more Spy Vs Spy than Team Fortress 2.
Quote:WeGÇÖve even allowed two teams into the environment to really let all hell break loose. Only two?
Quote:One example of a link with EVE gameplay weGÇÖre thinking of would be to put implant manufacture into the hands of players and making avatar gameplay part of the resource gathering chain it has. We want to make Avatar gameplay a viable and vibrant part of the Universe without forcing anyone that doesnGÇÖt want to use it from having to use it. This is exactly the sort of step I was hoping for, if WiS is going to be anything more than a 2 minute distraction it needs to link in to the wider ecosytem and it needs to have teeth. Provide those things, and we're talking.
Quote:A benefit from the EVA game is that a lot of the technology that would need to be developed to properly deliver the EVA experience would be directly useful in providing social areas and tools in stations. Good to see this too, and a thumb in the eye to those who protested about the idea of gameplay contaminating their precious dress-up simulator
Quote:That just sounds like one idea...
We decided to concentrate in depth on the one idea that has kept resurfacing from lots of different places within the company. WeGÇÖve had several others and collected a lot both internally and from the forums. One example would be a Station based espionage system. The beauty of the EVE Universe is that these ideas arenGÇÖt mutually exclusive for the most part. So whilst I think we are fairly sure of the initial gameplay direction there is lots of scope for expansion. Here's another idea: once you implement destructible stations, the only way to recover the contents of your hangar from the ruin involves infiltrating it through WiS mechanics (or hiring someone else to do it for you) so that you can deactivate the personal security fields and locate the right section of the hull to cutting-laser through and tractor your junk out.
(this means you have to implement destructible stations)
(implement destructible stations) Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Wolf Kruol
Sinisenkuun Laguuni GREATER ITAMO MAFIA
20
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 18:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
Sounds exciting concept. I would like to add trophy room in the CQ as wells as when we can walk in stations we can have our own bars... I like to make my stripclub with all those exotic chicks I have saved up.. Need to keep the show going while players buy drinks and have a smoke...
I can tell them great stories of my exploits in the old days in eve universe to the new pups..
Also players need to age... So I need my beer gut in a few years.. GÇ£If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?
You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!GÇ¥ |
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
48
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 18:54:00 -
[91] - Quote
Will it blend?
...or have connection with DUST on industrial level? About WIS |
Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
119
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 18:56:00 -
[92] - Quote
I don't get why this info was NDA as we already knew it... from eve : forever 2012, and the video on some russian convention. we won't eat you if you have a good idea for incarna you know.
Well anyway, does some dev on Island or in Shangai who work on DUST or the link between the games, will be free after the release of DUST ? cause you'll never be able to do this work if you don't have more devs :/ And don't forget, if incarna failed it was not only for lack of spaceships, but also, and as a major reason, because there were nothing on CQ. getting some devs out of spaceships is not that bad if they deliver something nice and they don't takes too much from spaceships. |
Desiderya
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
94
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 19:02:00 -
[93] - Quote
Want. Sad to hear, although understandably, that now is not the time to develop it. I know EVE is running without paid expansions for a good reason, but to be perfectly honest, this EVA feature would be an exception to that rule for me.
|
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1712
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 19:09:00 -
[94] - Quote
This is a promising start CCP. I approve of this service announcement and would love to see some game footage once development on an Eve server is forthcoming.
But I would like to add that the same consideration be given to WiS gameplay in general, where, some other items could be created on stations by players. Or allow environments with their own unique flavor and benefits/drawbacks to be Avatar based in its own self sustaining ecosystem.
Bars, brothels, casinos & ingame gambling, skillbooks, agents, medical salvage from corpses, Dust item manufacturing, invention, WiS based PvP and risk to assets to name but a few possibilities... |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
75
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 19:09:00 -
[95] - Quote
It sounds great and all and is really what EVE should strive to be in the next decade, but on the other hand...
This idea is dangerous. You need to do "Incarna" content 100% properly this time, or I fear it will fail again. And you will need all the complexity and the random stuff, the lore and all these things that make exploration great. (Not just 4 different layouts of the map, like the captains quarters). And this will likely eat up massive, massive development ressources. Probably at least as much as Apocrypha did, if not more.
And there were a ton of people working on Apocrypha, more than you have now. Furthermore, the re-iteration of old content is still not finished, ok it probably will never be (like the "new" sov-mechanics already being outdated and up for re-iteration already). But a project this huge will put a lot of other stuff on hold. It's a huge Jesus feature. And I am scared.
That said, it would be a dream come true, if DUST would be that sucessfull that CCP could use a part of those funds to "repay" EVE and raise its developer count to make this idea and the whole Incarna happen without the dramatic "everyone-onto-this" approach that it would require today to make it work properly.
|
LtCol Laurentius
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 19:13:00 -
[96] - Quote
This thread was obviously thought to be controversial, so unifex had to come out and endorse it :)
CCP, I think you have the playerbase a bit wrong here. The majority of the playerbase is not opposed to avatar gameplay, in fact I think most of us think it would be awesome to have a seamless ship/avatar experience like the one portrayed in future vision and this year fanfest video.
What you delivered in Incarna wasnt avatar gameplay, and it was disapointing, but what made the playerbase RAGE was not this at all. It was 3rd party developer fees, PayToWin, the hilariously hopless NeX store, 1000 dollar pants - i.e. the feeling that you planned to monetize your playerbase, coupled with a certain "we wont listen unless you unsubscribe on us" email, that spraked the riots.
Dont confuse these two things. Incarna was dissapointing as hell compared to what players were expecting, but it was not what caused the BIG crisis.
The critical thing moving foreward will however be a question of resource allocation. You have done :18 months: on us before to develop Incarna with little to show for it, and I dont see the playerbase have that kind of patience again. So, if you are going to do this - and I actually really think you should - you cannot ignore the ship game in the meantime. |
Borascus
Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance
64
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 19:33:00 -
[97] - Quote
Alongside a layered storyline, hierachy of encounters (Serpentis all over and Shadow Serpentis all over null-sec) this would KICK ASS.
The contrasting competitive acquisition schedules apparent in the latest Live Events is surely the right way to go with a PvE side experience, I'd prefer it if it were not a case of "Set resistances on ship to Guristas - Fight Guristas inside too".
I can just envisage fighting tonnes of Sansha forces while scanning finding a WiS spawn with a generic WiS site name, entering and finding out that the complex is full of Jove spies, or Cheeky Talocan Sturmovik's.
JUST SAYIN!
Even better if you are fighting Sansha/Serp/Guri/Angels/Thukkers/DarkBloods Spawns: Find a site Enter it Fight Serpentis/Guri/Angel/Thukker/Sansha/DarkBloods Find out Dark Bloods/Serp/Guri/Angel/Thukker/Sansha have secured the main room/s Fight Dark Bloods/Serp/Guri/Angel/Thukker/Sansha Secure end result.
That kind of switch up possibility would be sooo coool. Even the loot doesn't need to be tabled per area, all the factions / pirate factions would be vying for long dead tech.
Its a storyline CCP have used before, and I'd love it if you did it again.
|
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
604
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 19:37:00 -
[98] - Quote
So the TL;DR version...
CCP slowly pulls down the top revealing deep cleavage but no touching or reveal. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Cabal |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
396
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 19:40:00 -
[99] - Quote
Borascus wrote: I can just envisage fighting tonnes of Sansha forces while scanning finding a WiS spawn with a generic WiS site name, entering and finding out that the complex is full of Jove spies, or Cheeky Talocan Sturmovik's.
Sturmovik's?... |
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
75
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 19:51:00 -
[100] - Quote
I understand the need to prioritize, but I can't help feeling disappointed. I would love to play my favorite scifi game in another venue than floating brackets in space. Not that they aren't really pretty brackets, but I feel that new vectors for exploration will always provide a rewarding experience. I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point! |
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1246
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 19:57:00 -
[101] - Quote
Bummer that they put you on the bench team avatar. I'm looking forward to your vision hitting TQ. I'll be around though... looking forward to seeing you achieve your vision! It sounds really cool...
|
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
397
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 20:13:00 -
[102] - Quote
I also demand that, with this things implementation, the ability to create a huge, buffed, dread locked, bad ass norse looking Minmatar to charge people with in station PvP.
Because there's only so many fights you can fight to DnB before you want to go person to person with someone to some viking metal. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1028
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 20:20:00 -
[103] - Quote
LtCol Laurentius wrote:This thread was obviously thought to be controversial, so unifex had to come out and endorse it :)
CCP, I think you have the playerbase a bit wrong here. The majority of the playerbase is not opposed to avatar gameplay, in fact I think most of us think it would be awesome to have a seamless ship/avatar experience like the one portrayed in future vision and this year fanfest video.
What you delivered in Incarna wasnt avatar gameplay, and it was disapointing, but what made the playerbase RAGE was not this at all. It was 3rd party developer fees, PayToWin, the hilariously hopless NeX store, 1000 dollar pants - i.e. the feeling that you planned to monetize your playerbase, coupled with a certain "we wont listen unless you unsubscribe on us" email, that spraked the riots.
Dont confuse these two things. Incarna was dissapointing as hell compared to what players were expecting, but it was not what caused the BIG crisis.
The critical thing moving foreward will however be a question of resource allocation. You have done :18 months: on us before to develop Incarna with little to show for it, and I dont see the playerbase have that kind of patience again. So, if you are going to do this - and I actually really think you should - you cannot ignore the ship game in the meantime. +1 There is a big difference between "ignoring the spaceship game" and and working on WiS. Obviously, given a fixed budget for developing new things, paying people to develop one feature will always mean there is less money for developing something else. To say "we will not develop WiS until it will not reduce effort placed on spaceships" means you will never develop it, because any money used to develop Wis could instead be used to hire different people who do additional work on spaceships.
But from the above many players want WiS in some form. What to do?
Assume that part of every subscription fee went to developing new features, maybe $2 a month. Now imagine that CCP allows us players to each vote on how our $2 is spent. Take the money voted for WiS, and spend it on that. All those players who do not want WiS would be absolutely sure that none of their money went to fund it.
But CCP does not need to actually implement such a voting system. Just put out a poll with the next news letter, and use that as a guide.
Also, CCP, why do you develop prototypes of new features then pitch them to management? Management does not pay for them to be developed, we do. Pitch them to us, get our approval. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
397
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 20:22:00 -
[104] - Quote
^Pitch Bearded Norse-ish Minmatars for station combat first.
"GET CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY LASER SWORD!!!!" |
Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
243
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 20:23:00 -
[105] - Quote
So, from what Unifex just said, I'm going to guess that Winter 2012 and Summer 2013 is out of the question. Which means, I'm a little disappointed. There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
Lunaleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises Red Alliance
15
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 21:21:00 -
[106] - Quote
This EVA stuff all sounds exciting....once FIS (esp SOV, Lowsec, NPC 00, and POS') have been fixed. You made the correct decision in focusing on F.I.S. content. Thank you!
|
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
114
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 21:25:00 -
[107] - Quote
I'm glad to have some clarity on the issue. The exploration content sounds awesome, and I like the general old-school horror theme that you're vulnerable and exploring a dark and dangerous landscape. I don't know if anyone at CCP has played Penumbra, but that general vibe would be amazing. Maybe have the courage to have things in there that are not necessary designed to be overcome, but avoided and routed around--when possible. If you think fast.
The two team limitation is an acceptable start, but for maximum mayhem you should consider finding ways to up that.
(And, to answer something from Scatim Helicon's good post, I do not want Dersen traipsing around Sleeper ruins in an open leather jacket. That will shatter immersion. Some kind of environmental suit is obvious--especially if they could be dyed or badged in some way so that it was possible to recognize your team.)
It makes sense that solving this problem makes social spaces and stations much, much easier by comparison. I'm glad you're leading with this, though. This promises to be fun. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2514
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 21:48:00 -
[108] - Quote
Quote:Also, CCP, why do you develop prototypes of new features then pitch them to management? Management does not pay for them to be developed, we do. Pitch them to us, get our approval.
Vincent, if you'll think back, Tofri and a few others did broach the idea of developing Avatar game play along this line and asked for feed back. Based on that generally positive feed back they proceded from there to put together a plan and a demo that they could pitch to the rest of the management team... which obviously have to give the final approval.
Player input and feed back is extremely valuable, but you can't run a company by popular vote. It's nice in theory, but impractical in practice. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2514
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 21:59:00 -
[109] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:I'm glad to have some clarity on the issue. The exploration content sounds awesome, and I like the general old-school horror theme that you're vulnerable and exploring a dark and dangerous landscape. I don't know if anyone at CCP has played Penumbra, but that general vibe would be amazing. Maybe have the courage to have things in there that are not necessary designed to be overcome, but avoided and routed around--when possible. If you think fast.
The two team limitation is an acceptable start, but for maximum mayhem you should consider finding ways to up that.
(And, to answer something from Scatim Helicon's good post, I do not want Dersen traipsing around Sleeper ruins in an open leather jacket. That will shatter immersion. Some kind of environmental suit is obvious--especially if they could be dyed or badged in some way so that it was possible to recognize your team.)
It makes sense that solving this problem makes social spaces and stations much, much easier by comparison. I'm glad you're leading with this, though. This promises to be fun.
I am of the same mind, however the one thing that I think will have to be carefully considered is to what degree to make certain area's available only to groups as opposed to the single player.
For the most part, for better or for worse, a great deal (but certainly not all) of building materials acquisition in EVE is done by the solo player currently. However it would seem that a frequent theme in this Avatar based game play will be an environment so hostile (not counting opposing player involvement) that it will require a team to access certain area's/content (running remote repairers on each other, etc.).
I think that this will have to be handled with a delicate hand, and allow a (modest) living to be made by solo players, while the bigger rewards can be reaped by teams. And by bigger, I don't mean proportionately bigger. There is no incentive to go in as a team if you end up going home with the same amount of ISK in your pocket (as your share of the loot) as you would have taking the whole thing doing a lower payout site solo.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
916
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 22:06:00 -
[110] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:(And, to answer something from Scatim Helicon's good post, I do not want Dersen traipsing around Sleeper ruins in an open leather jacket. That will shatter immersion. Some kind of environmental suit is obvious--especially if they could be dyed or badged in some way so that it was possible to recognize your team.) Although it would be greatly amusing to see capsuleers just running around in their regular clothes soaking up radiation and toxic waste and not giving a damn because their human bodies are just disposable shells that can be trivially replaced at any time. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
|
Jessy Berbers
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
24
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 22:55:00 -
[111] - Quote
Sounds like a great concept CCP, but ehm yeah we already kinda knew all about it, Though i do aprove ^^
Hire some more people to do the WiS gameplay, or outsource that specific expansion to some other company and check frequently to what they are doing, while you CCP keep working on spaceships like all the anti WiS people want you to do.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
169
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 23:07:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.
How do you think it will work in the various security statuses? Goonwaffe is now recruiting feel free to message me in game for information about joining! |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
792
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 23:15:00 -
[113] - Quote
It's good to see some actual content for the avatars in the pipeline, as opposed to a room with a TV & a spaceship in the background that gets smaller as you walk towards it. If this is to become a reality down the track, are there any plans to optimise how it runs on lower end systems? Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
|
CCP t0rfifrans
C C P C C P Alliance
500
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 00:40:00 -
[114] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting. How do you think it will work in the various security statuses? We actually didn't go that deep into that part of the design, the prototype we built focused on the minute by minute exploration, looting, overcoming obstacles and fighting turrets and random encounters of other players. It would vary in difficulty in risk, but one thing about EVE is that you are only ever fully safe when docked or logged off. Even mining in hisec is not without risk, as many can testify to. It can be annoying for some, but it adds so much more depth and dare I say it, verisimilitude to the experience of living in New Eden. |
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2515
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 01:00:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:La Nariz wrote:CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting. How do you think it will work in the various security statuses? We actually didn't go that deep into that part of the design, the prototype we built focused on the minute by minute exploration, looting, overcoming obstacles and fighting turrets and random encounters of other players. It would vary in difficulty in risk, but one thing about EVE is that you are only ever fully safe when docked or logged off. Even mining in hisec is not without risk, as many can testify to. It can be annoying for some, but it adds so much more depth and dare I say it, verisimilitude to the experience of living in New Eden.
Eventually I'd like to see things get to the point where even docked in High Sec you can at least still get (painfully, but harmlessly) punched in the face, docked in low sec (due to less strict weapons prohibitions on stations) you can still get knifed, and docked up in Null Sec you can get your head blown off. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
346
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 01:37:00 -
[116] - Quote
Looks like it's a ways away, but it is appreciated. I understand that a lot of EVE players really hate this idea or anything associated with it, but that doesn't account for all of us.
I almost had a thought that I may have more interesting things to do soon when I started reading, but after a little I realized it was very much in the undeveloped idea stage, and nowhere near planning stage. Ah well.. so it goes.
I really like the idea, and I'm glad it's more than mere meandering melancholy in a station. That would be pointless. Interesting briefly, but pointless. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1777
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 01:39:00 -
[117] - Quote
Now that team Avatar has come this far, CCP should in secret dedicate a full team of devs to making it a reality. Don't let anybody know! The masses must believe that team Avatar is still a small team lest they start shooting the poor statues in Jita. Please...think of the statues! EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
346
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 01:49:00 -
[118] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Good to see CCP is focusing its talents and not smearing them out over lord knows how many projects. Sounds great tough! Meaningful avatar play. Don't forget to use one of those bars you see/saw floating in some missions to put those in use as well, when ever you get to allocate the sources needed for this. When ever I ran into those I always thought of 'Porky's in space'.
o.0 ..somehow, that is not my picture of EVE. Porky's in Space? I don't even know what that is.
Also, Missions are interesting and all, but dozens or even hundreds of randomly generic pleasure HUBs is sort of like dozens, if not hundreds of randomly seedy bars in the worst parts of town.
Not really very interesting, unless you want to watch some 6'4" 280 pound woman lay it to some random guy, then stomp his head into a curb. - happened outside the old arcade where I used to go when I was a kid, right across from the seediest pub in town. Wasn't very interesting.
More interesting was helping the Police follow the blood trail left by some moron who put his fist through the plate glass window of a restaurant after walking out of the same place at another time. It was late, I was young and adventurous, so I tracked the blood trail halfway across town for the Police in the middle of the night. Lost it just the other side of a park.
Yay.
You can see I really find that overwhelmingly fascinating now. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
267
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 01:51:00 -
[119] - Quote
Well, this is disappointing. It appears as if it'll be years before we are able to do anything besides shoot at red crosses or flashing red boxes while zoomed out.
When I joined Eve I was greatly looking forward to Incarna (nee ambulation, WiS) and the ability to interact with others in my corp and alliance in shared meeting spaces, interacting with other players over games of chance in seedy bars, etc. After the perfect storm of Incarna performance problems, leaked memos, anger over microtransactions and the poorly thought out NeX store and the fallout that followed, CCP got frightened and swung the pendulum too far in the other direction (and in the process tossed those of us who were looking forward to avatars under the bus).
The hardcore Eve snobs can flame all they like but, fact of the matter is that most people find it easier to identify with a humanoid form as their in-game representation rather than a ship model.
As a roleplayer who's regularly subjected to ridicule as is I'm finding it harder and harder to justify spending my limited discretionary income on a game whose playerbase totally disrespects me and a developer who apparently feels the same.
Since it seems that CCP truly only listens to pitchfork wielding mobs who unsubscribe perhaps it's time that those of us who are growing weary of having our wants placed on the back burner again and again to emulate those mobs. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
115
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 02:27:00 -
[120] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:(And, to answer something from Scatim Helicon's good post, I do not want Dersen traipsing around Sleeper ruins in an open leather jacket. That will shatter immersion. Some kind of environmental suit is obvious--especially if they could be dyed or badged in some way so that it was possible to recognize your team.) Although it would be greatly amusing to see capsuleers just running around in their regular clothes soaking up radiation and toxic waste and not giving a damn because their human bodies are just disposable shells that can be trivially replaced at any time.
Yes, it would. In fact, in that case you'd have an additional variable: how long your body (including implants) lasts under extremely harsh conditions. In fact, I don't see the suits preventing that damage, just mitigating it, and hiding it behind a full body suit so that CCP doesn't have to render the radiation burns on top of everything else.
I was assuming that there wasn't even air to breathe, or air pressure, and the body would last about as long as it does when it's blown out of a pod. |
|
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1245
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 02:41:00 -
[121] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:[ I was assuming that there wasn't even air to breathe, or air pressure, and the body would last about as long as it does when it's blown out of a pod.
I bet we end up in a dive suit of sorts, still containing our pod goo, and our EVA helm is an external variation of the DUST implant to transfer conciseness like our pods do. (secondary use of pods as their main use is just to plug directly into the ship systems) |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
705
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 02:42:00 -
[122] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Well, this is disappointing. It appears as if it'll be years before we are able to do anything besides shoot at red crosses or flashing red boxes while zoomed out.
When I joined Eve I was greatly looking forward to Incarna (nee ambulation, WiS) and the ability to interact with others in my corp and alliance in shared meeting spaces, interacting with other players over games of chance in seedy bars, etc. After the perfect storm of Incarna performance problems, leaked memos, anger over microtransactions and the poorly thought out NeX store and the fallout that followed, CCP got frightened and swung the pendulum too far in the other direction (and in the process tossed those of us who were looking forward to avatars under the bus).
The hardcore Eve snobs can flame all they like but, fact of the matter is that most people find it easier to identify with a humanoid form as their in-game representation rather than a ship model.
As a roleplayer who's regularly subjected to ridicule as is I'm finding it harder and harder to justify spending my limited discretionary income on a game whose playerbase totally disrespects me and a developer who apparently feels the same.
Since it seems that CCP truly only listens to pitchfork wielding mobs who unsubscribe perhaps it's time that those of us who are growing weary of having our wants placed on the back burner again and again to emulate those mobs.
good luck with that. The problem with that is that almost all WIS lovers ,also love this game .with a few exceptions of course we know along time now that WIS wil take a lot of time to implement ,so that is no suprise The reason we should be angry about is that CCP posted another thread about WIS ,were we only can speculate,again. Its time they let us see what they are talking about and not that long ago they were planning on doing that If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
252
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 02:54:00 -
[123] - Quote
Well, to be honest, it isn't in any way surprising that WiS (with purpose) is a long way off. Prototyping a team based game in Unity is a hell of a ways away from being able to do the same thing in Carbon. A lot of people still struggle to run the character creator efficiently, as far as I know (unfortunately). So Heaven help us, trying to run 'teams' of avatars.
Personally speaking, I'm one of many who've really looked forward to seeing avatar-based gameplay come of age in EVE, but I'm also a realist. I'd be very surprised indeed if I saw this current prototype begin to reach the development stage even three years from now, given the level of team-dedication it would take.
Next year, hopefully, (seriously hopefully!) we'll see a complete revamp of the PoS system - and God knows, we need it.
With any luck, the development teams will be allowed to spend the year after that completely revamping the Corp Management UI; Roles, etc. Sure, it already works, but it's horrible - and I can only imagine that it'd be another serious undertaking, labour-wise...
The big question on my mind though, is what will Team Avatar dedicate themselves to, in the meantime...? You're not shutting down (thankfully) so instead of going silent for the next year or so, how about letting us know? (INB4 'Fix Lag')
A long-ago Dev-blog told us that the art assets (Models, Textures, etc.) for building Station environments for the four races were complete, and that they were modular-based - so building 'new rooms' or whatever wasn't such a biggie... Here's some things I'd (personally) like to see from Team Avatar and T0rfifrans (who despite everything, is still my fave Dev...)
1. A proper Pod room leading off from the CQ (ffs) - that 'pod-on-a-ladder' still drives me nuts, and makes a mockery of the prime-fiction.
2. An 'upgraded' CQ - sure you wanted it to 'feel dark, cramped, and claustrophobic', but you might have well said that you wanted it to 'feel really, really annoying'... And rather than 'monetize' it, I'd suggest it be available in stations where (player) Corps have their Headquarters registered, if having it everywhere is too much work.
What would I like to see inside it?
1. Instead of that little holo-display on the coffee table, that shows your ship - a great big display in a separate room that lets you view any ship at all, even npc pirate ships, and shows you (some would say useless) stats; like, number of skeleton crew, full crew, and survival rates, etc... (Yes, Capsuleer ships have crew...) I think it'd be quite immersive for new players, and Vets could ignore it, if so minded.
2. As shown in a concept video many years ago - I'd like to see a ship hangar that lets you walk up towards your current ship, to truly appreciate the scale. With tessellation, in the future, that'd look even more impressive.
3. 'Trophy rooms' for those so minded... we might not be able to shoot anyone yet, but having a munitions supply would be pretty cool to see (steal some Dust assets) - and having some eerily-lit corpse tubes would warm even the coldest hearts, I don't doubt.
4. A Pod-room *cough*.
5. More interactivity in the environment for Machinima minded people, these CQ's have various displays; is there any reason why you can't put some triggered emote-actions onto them, if you have development time to spare? A bed you can sit/lie on?
6. Hell, even holo-displays for Corp MOTD's, etc. would be better than nothing...
There are quite a few things I could think of, without getting into mini-games (Go/Baduk, please...) - but really it boils down to the question of what exactly the Avatar team is going to be working on, now that the proof of concept is 'complete' for now, and further progress on the 'cool stuff' is effectively shelved.
I'd also be interested to know what's happening with actual avatar development from the team...
Are we any closer to seeing racial-blending?
Sleeve tattoos on Sisi looked good a while back, but any news on that? And have you done any tribal-style sleeve tattoos; that'd better harmonise with what we already have?
What about the new clothing (leather strappy catsuits, etc.)? |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
706
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 02:56:00 -
[124] - Quote
the next thing that wonders me that that one room we have is not made more functional Sure, multiplayer environments will not come in the near future But adding some more interior even when it is not for multiplayer could easily be done and maybe made functional or even let me walk at ground level of the hangar (see ? dreaming and speculating ) the big useless screens could use some love ,pls do something with those s**tty useless things
edit kinda beat me to it ^^^^^^
nice post +1 If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
346
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 04:08:00 -
[125] - Quote
Jessy Berbers wrote:Sounds like a great concept CCP, but ehm yeah we already kinda knew all about it, Though i do aprove ^^
Hire some more people to do the WiS gameplay, or outsource that specific expansion to some other company and check frequently to what they are doing, while you CCP keep working on spaceships like all the anti WiS people want you to do.
Letting someone else develop this would be a disaster. I'd rather wait longer. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
15
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 04:09:00 -
[126] - Quote
Whole idea sound great make it real ASAP ;) but while i think about other EVE aspects i see somthing abadoned like one room WIS, why CCP employe work on new projects even as prototype, while other projects are like in beta phase or forgoten ... Long time ago CCP promise to us awesome expanded WIS, with big rooms, corporations hall, mini games etc, interaction betwen players etc, and now THIS...
We were also excided when CCP talk about WIS when WIS was a project, now meny people goot bad feelings and bad expirence with it.
Anyway i wish you all best CCP, i try to be optimist, i love EvE, even somtime im disappointed with game progres. |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
346
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 04:28:00 -
[127] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:[ I was assuming that there wasn't even air to breathe, or air pressure, and the body would last about as long as it does when it's blown out of a pod. I bet we end up in a dive suit of sorts, still containing our pod goo, and our EVA helm is an external variation of the DUST implant to transfer conciseness like our pods do. (secondary use of pods as their main use is just to plug directly into the ship systems)
..or:
We have additional clones specifically designed for this purpose. It's not like our implants would survive or function in that environment anyway, so really we'd just be jump-cloning into temporary host clones sort of like those used in Dust. Makes sense to me.
They already said the conditions would be so harsh as to prevent function of all but EM resistant electronics. By EM resistant, we are referring to very basic electronics that incorporate very simple designs. Sort of like a LED flashlight vs. one that has a Tungsten filament and D-Cell Alkaline batteries.
Basically, anything involving complex electronics like those found in Computer processors and SSD drives will be essentially useless. The same applies to many chips used for memory cache and HDD Storage technology. The motor on a HDD may continue to function, but it's unlikely the HDD will retain any information stored on it, so it's effectively useless.
This puts implants out, unless a way of shielding them is found. The same applies to other complex electronics.
Shielding is actually not intensely hard, but the greater the force of resistance, the greater shielding is required, so it can only be so effective. Also, radiation may break down some forms of shielding.
This means that having about eight clones on board your cruiser, (which are relatively simple clones without the knowledge you have about Spaceships and all sorts of other things), to transfer a portion of your consciousness to would be helpful. You could then deploy them one at a time in an exploration effort, replacing each as it meets some foul fate, or recalling one in use after a successful mission.
It would make sense to also have new skills available for this. Also, losing one of these clones would be a lot different from being podded. That doesn't mean some Risk wouldn't be involved as you would lose the clone itself, have to buy a new one, and you would also potentially lose all the associated gear with it. Some might be rediscovered, or it might not, depending on circumstances and design.
This is completely hypothetical of course, but it occurs to me that it isn't a bad idea. This would also save you from the immersion breaking nature of being in your ship in space, leaving your pod, and walking into a station ruin with your full clone, in what is potentially a very hazardous environment with people or things that want to kill you, or can kill you.
On the other hand, that isn't incredibly immersion breaking, and the risk might be worth taking. Also, it would probably be a lot more interesting/exciting, knowing it is your only clone, and losing it means leaving your ship in space and waking up in your medical clone somewhere.
Having both options available might be cool. Use one of those clones, or use your own - your choice. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
269
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 04:28:00 -
[128] - Quote
Hiram Alexander wrote:Well, to be honest, it isn't in any way surprising that WiS (with purpose) is a long way off. Prototyping a team based game in Unity is a hell of a ways away from being able to do the same thing in Carbon. A lot of people still struggle to run the character creator efficiently, as far as I know (unfortunately). So Heaven help us, trying to run 'teams' of avatars.
Personally speaking, I'm one of many who've really looked forward to seeing avatar-based gameplay come of age in EVE, but I'm also a realist. I'd be very surprised indeed if I saw this current prototype begin to reach the development stage even three years from now, given the level of team-dedication it would take.
Next year, hopefully, (seriously hopefully!) we'll see a complete revamp of the PoS system - and God knows, we need it.
With any luck, the development teams will be allowed to spend the year after that completely revamping the Corp Management UI; Roles, etc. Sure, it already works, but it's horrible - and I can only imagine that it'd be another serious undertaking, labour-wise...
The big question on my mind though, is what will Team Avatar dedicate themselves to, in the meantime...? You're not shutting down (thankfully) so instead of going silent for the next year or so, how about letting us know? (INB4 'Fix Lag')
A long-ago Dev-blog told us that the art assets (Models, Textures, etc.) for building Station environments for the four races were complete, and that they were modular-based - so building 'new rooms' or whatever wasn't such a biggie... Here's some things I'd (personally) like to see from Team Avatar and T0rfifrans (who despite everything, is still my fave Dev...)
1. A proper Pod room leading off from the CQ (ffs) - that 'pod-on-a-ladder' still drives me nuts, and makes a mockery of the prime-fiction.
2. An 'upgraded' CQ - sure you wanted it to 'feel dark, cramped, and claustrophobic', but you might have well said that you wanted it to 'feel really, really annoying'... And rather than 'monetize' it, I'd suggest it be available in stations where (player) Corps have their Headquarters registered, if having it everywhere is too much work.
What would I like to see inside it?
1. Instead of that little holo-display on the coffee table, that shows your ship - a great big display in a separate room that lets you view any ship at all, even npc pirate ships, and shows you (some would say useless) stats; like, number of skeleton crew, full crew, and survival rates, etc... (Yes, Capsuleer ships have crew...) I think it'd be quite immersive for new players, and Vets could ignore it, if so minded.
2. As shown in a concept video many years ago - I'd like to see a ship hangar that lets you walk up towards your current ship, to truly appreciate the scale. With tessellation, in the future, that'd look even more impressive.
3. 'Trophy rooms' for those so minded... we might not be able to shoot anyone yet, but having a munitions supply would be pretty cool to see (steal some Dust assets) - and having some eerily-lit corpse tubes would warm even the coldest hearts, I don't doubt.
4. A Pod-room *cough*.
5. More interactivity in the environment for Machinima minded people, these CQ's have various displays; is there any reason why you can't put some triggered emote-actions onto them, if you have development time to spare? A bed you can sit/lie on?
6. Hell, even holo-displays for Corp MOTD's, etc. would be better than nothing...
There are quite a few things I could think of, without getting into mini-games (Go/Baduk, please...) - but really it boils down to the question of what exactly the Avatar team is going to be working on, now that the proof of concept is 'complete' for now, and further progress on the 'cool stuff' is effectively shelved.
I'd also be interested to know what's happening with actual avatar development from the team...
Are we any closer to seeing racial-blending?
Sleeve tattoos on Sisi looked good a while back, but any news on that? And have you done any tribal-style sleeve tattoos; that'd better harmonise with what we already have?
What about the new clothing (leather strappy catsuits, etc.)?
All frivolous, do people still even load the cq?
wis is nothing but bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
924
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 04:28:00 -
[129] - Quote
Anslo wrote:problem is he isn't so "hard core" outside his ship and he sucks at FPS/3PS style gameplay. You however, do not.... The game and server cannot handle the kind of load this would impose on the server. This would involve twitch based mechanics rather than the ticks the server is configured to handle. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1246
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 04:32:00 -
[130] - Quote
Whats weird to me is Dust as already a compatible game with carbon. It was developed on PC, likely capable of far more on PC itself. Is the base engine going to be reused for avatar exploration, or are you still pushing the pretty full carbon dolls that melt graphic cards? Since we will be EVA suits, no need for fancy hair and designer clothes that drape like silk over stairs. Unreal engine seems enough :| |
|
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
253
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 04:42:00 -
[131] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:Hiram Alexander wrote:*snip* Stuff I wrote... All frivolous, do people still even load the cq?
Hardly anyone, I imagine.
Still, from your earlier post here, I already gathered you're not a fan of the 'frivolous' stuff anyway, but seeing as you're presumably open to the idea of what they want to implement in the far-far-future. Let me ask you...
What do you think 'TA' should spend their time on, in the meantime? |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
346
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 04:43:00 -
[132] - Quote
Hiram Alexander wrote:Well, to be honest, it isn't in any way surprising that WiS (with purpose) is a long way off. Prototyping a team based game in Unity is a hell of a ways away from being able to do the same thing in Carbon. A lot of people still struggle to run the character creator efficiently, as far as I know (unfortunately). So Heaven help us, trying to run 'teams' of avatars.
Personally speaking, I'm one of many who've really looked forward to seeing avatar-based gameplay come of age in EVE, but I'm also a realist. I'd be very surprised indeed if I saw this current prototype begin to reach the development stage even three years from now, given the level of team-dedication it would take.
Next year, hopefully, (seriously hopefully!) we'll see a complete revamp of the PoS system - and God knows, we need it.
With any luck, the development teams will be allowed to spend the year after that completely revamping the Corp Management UI; Roles, etc. Sure, it already works, but it's horrible - and I can only imagine that it'd be another serious undertaking, labour-wise...
The big question on my mind though, is what will Team Avatar dedicate themselves to, in the meantime...? You're not shutting down (thankfully) so instead of going silent for the next year or so, how about letting us know? (INB4 'Fix Lag')
A long-ago Dev-blog told us that the art assets (Models, Textures, etc.) for building Station environments for the four races were complete, and that they were modular-based - so building 'new rooms' or whatever wasn't such a biggie... Here's some things I'd (personally) like to see from Team Avatar and T0rfifrans (who despite everything, is still my fave Dev...)
1. A proper Pod room leading off from the CQ (ffs) - that 'pod-on-a-ladder' still drives me nuts, and makes a mockery of the prime-fiction.
2. An 'upgraded' CQ - sure you wanted it to 'feel dark, cramped, and claustrophobic', but you might have well said that you wanted it to 'feel really, really annoying'... And rather than 'monetize' it, I'd suggest it be available in stations where (player) Corps have their Headquarters registered, if having it everywhere is too much work.
What would I like to see inside it?
1. Instead of that little holo-display on the coffee table, that shows your ship - a great big display in a separate room that lets you view any ship at all, even npc pirate ships, and shows you (some would say useless) stats; like, number of skeleton crew, full crew, and survival rates, etc... (Yes, Capsuleer ships have crew...) I think it'd be quite immersive for new players, and Vets could ignore it, if so minded.
2. As shown in a concept video many years ago - I'd like to see a ship hangar that lets you walk up towards your current ship, to truly appreciate the scale. With tessellation, in the future, that'd look even more impressive.
3. 'Trophy rooms' for those so minded... we might not be able to shoot anyone yet, but having a munitions supply would be pretty cool to see (steal some Dust assets) - and having some eerily-lit corpse tubes would warm even the coldest hearts, I don't doubt.
4. A Pod-room *cough*.
5. More interactivity in the environment for Machinima minded people, these CQ's have various displays; is there any reason why you can't put some triggered emote-actions onto them, if you have development time to spare? A bed you can sit/lie on?
6. Hell, even holo-displays for Corp MOTD's, etc. would be better than nothing...
There are quite a few things I could think of, without getting into mini-games (Go/Baduk, please...) - but really it boils down to the question of what exactly the Avatar team is going to be working on, now that the proof of concept is 'complete' for now, and further progress on the 'cool stuff' is effectively shelved.
I'd also be interested to know what's happening with actual avatar development from the team...
Are we any closer to seeing racial-blending?
Sleeve tattoos on Sisi looked good a while back, but any news on that? And have you done any tribal-style sleeve tattoos; that'd better harmonise with what we already have?
What about the new clothing (leather strappy catsuits, etc.)?
Having 5 people working on a project is a lot less unsettling to some members of the community than having the entire development team focus on it full time for a year.
1a. I've gotten used to it, and looking at it now I rather like it.
2a. It's already been upgraded; you just can't leave. Presumably some future project will result in bigger CQs for those who can afford them. ISK sink? ..or AUR? Rather it was an ISK sink as AUR uses shouldn't be expanded on to greatly. Clothes are fine; not sure about other things.
1. Maybe in market.
2. We already have that to some degree. Looks good to me.
3. Decorations are nice, but I'm not in a hurry. Not even remotely.
4. You mentioned that.
5. There is a bed; it isn't available for interaction. It's a bunk really, and I don't see it being a highly useful interaction.
6. Why would you want a holo display of your Corp MotD? You have a Corp Interaction panel in your CQ; isn't that enough? MotD is just a sentence or brief info thing, and it's available in your Corp chat window when you log in or it's updated. In EVE, I don't even think they call it a MotD, which implies it is updated daily, which is unnecessary nonsense.
MotDs are really annoying and ultimately end up being trivial nonsense; even just the idea of a daily message is annoying.
Info is great.
I get that you're into the whole Station walking thing and avatar stuff + interaction, but I'd far rather it be useful and engaging.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
269
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 04:53:00 -
[133] - Quote
Hiram Alexander wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:Hiram Alexander wrote:*snip* Stuff I wrote... All frivolous, do people still even load the cq? Hardly anyone, I imagine. Still, from your earlier post here, I already gathered you're not a fan of the 'frivolous' stuff anyway, but seeing as you're presumably open to the idea of what they want to implement in the far-far-future. Let me ask you... What do you think 'TA' should spend their time on, in the meantime?
The "big concepts" that are needed to justify further investments into wis.
- A full stand-alone wis ecosystem - that is able to integrate and affect the greater existing fis ecosystem in meaningful ways
Just think about the above requirements, I don't know about you but it seems to be quite a difficult challenge. I have no idea of how to do this nor am I qualified this but hopefully TA will figure it out. The challenge is two-fold. The conceptual and the tech (to be able to render multiple avatars) but without good concepts the best tech is useless, ie IDsoft's last game. wis is nothing but bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other. |
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
253
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 05:22:00 -
[134] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:Hiram Alexander wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:Hiram Alexander wrote:*snip* Stuff I wrote... All frivolous, do people still even load the cq? Hardly anyone, I imagine. Still, from your earlier post here, I already gathered you're not a fan of the 'frivolous' stuff anyway, but seeing as you're presumably open to the idea of what they want to implement in the far-far-future. Let me ask you... What do you think 'TA' should spend their time on, in the meantime? The "big concepts" that are needed to justify further investments into wis. - A full stand-alone wis ecosystem - that is able to integrate and affect the greater existing fis ecosystem in meaningful ways Just think about the above requirements, I don't know about you but it seems to be quite a difficult challenge. I have no idea of how to do this nor am I qualified this but hopefully TA will figure it out. The challenge is two-fold. The conceptual and the tech (to be able to render multiple avatars) but without good concepts the best tech is useless, ie IDsoft's last game. Yeah, fair enough.
I'm not sure that Carbon is really the right engine to deliver that though... not currently anyway. And although I reckon they could do a lot to improve it over time, I'm not really sure that a team of (5?) is likely to get very far.
Having said that though, video cards 2/3 years from now will go a long way towards taking away the sting... |
Lord Okinaba
30
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 09:10:00 -
[135] - Quote
It's a shame this will never come to fruition for at least another 5 years. I would have much rather have had something like this than DUST 514. |
|
CCP Bayesian
454
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 09:12:00 -
[136] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:I take this to mean that our avatars won't appear in their current 'Incarna' state of flying jackets/aviator shades/leather boots? While this would be a logical conclusion of operating in hazardous environments, it will inevitably disappoint some. Any thoughts on customising EVA-suits like we currently do for our avatars in the character creator? I really want to just stomp around in a personalised powered spacesuit.
I think customised suits would be cool. Particularly if it reflects what the person is carrying as well. We didn't put much thought into what customisation might be though, concentrating on the gameplay.
Players should have an opportunity to do stuff with their customised avatars though beyond just social engagement the espionage idea is much more ameniable to swanning around in haute couture for example.
Scatim Helicon wrote:Only two?
For the size of environment we made for the prototype two was enough to demonstrate that it was awesome fun. In reality there will have to be some limit to the number of people in any one structure but we've not defined what that is.
EVE Software Engineer Team Avatar |
|
Lord Okinaba
30
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 09:17:00 -
[137] - Quote
When designing suits, think Prometheus!
Edit: For the Gallente at least. Minmatar suits would be more Dead Space. |
|
CCP Bayesian
455
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 09:20:00 -
[138] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:Also, CCP, why do you develop prototypes of new features then pitch them to management? Management does not pay for them to be developed, we do. Pitch them to us, get our approval. Vincent, if you'll think back, Torfi and a few others did broach the idea of developing Avatar game play along this line and asked for feed back. Based on that generally positive feed back they proceded from there to put together a plan and a demo that they could pitch to the rest of the management team... which obviously have to give the final approval. Player input and feed back is extremely valuable, but you can't run a company by popular vote. It's nice in theory, but impractical in practice.
To follow on from this its also about getting feedback in an appropriate venue. There were some fair concerns from some people in CCP that putting out what we developers wanted to would inevitably end up getting misconstrued. We're definitely hoping to get some good feedback at fanfest though and a more personal interaction will help that. EVE Software Engineer Team Avatar |
|
Alice Saki
9509
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 09:22:00 -
[139] - Quote
Team Avatar FTW ^_^ Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
|
Sentinel Mantik
Risosu no kyoryoku
7
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 10:02:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:Also, CCP, why do you develop prototypes of new features then pitch them to management? Management does not pay for them to be developed, we do. Pitch them to us, get our approval. Vincent, if you'll think back, Torfi and a few others did broach the idea of developing Avatar game play along this line and asked for feed back. Based on that generally positive feed back they proceded from there to put together a plan and a demo that they could pitch to the rest of the management team... which obviously have to give the final approval. Player input and feed back is extremely valuable, but you can't run a company by popular vote. It's nice in theory, but impractical in practice. To follow on from this its also about getting feedback in an appropriate venue. There were some fair concerns from some people in CCP that putting out what we developers wanted to would inevitably end up getting misconstrued. We're definitely hoping to get some good feedback at fanfest though and a more personal interaction will help that.
I'm planning to be there 2013 and i hope we could talk about this a lot. The Avatar-Gameplay is the feature i want the most in eve (actually i started eve because of it)
I'm still waiting to open my Minmatarian Pub in my homestation... Minmatar 4 life
German player.
|
|
Wacktopia
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
267
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 10:11:00 -
[141] - Quote
Nice. I've been idling over that very long WiS update thread full of "updates soonTM guys" promises for a while, half expecting it to be dead. Nice to see something great is coming of it :) The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
159
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 10:14:00 -
[142] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote: It can be annoying for some, but it adds so much more depth and dare I say it, verisimilitude to the experience of living in New Eden.
Totally off topic but awesome word right there. |
Veschenko
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 10:39:00 -
[143] - Quote
James Cameron |
Kan'loch Lacoud
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
19
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 11:12:00 -
[144] - Quote
May have been asked before, but what happens to your ship when you are doing EVA, do you 'dock' in the structure or is it left there in space for anyone to board/steal? |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2774
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 11:33:00 -
[145] - Quote
Kan'loch Lacoud wrote:May have been asked before, but what happens to your ship when you are doing EVA, do you 'dock' in the structure or is it left there in space for anyone to board/steal?
I would guess it's docked/shielded in some way or the feature will be largely useless. No one is going to bother competing with others in the structures, if they can just shoot/steal the ship the competition uses without a fight and then do the structure without interference. Even when you're alone you couldn't risk a proper ship to dock most of the time, so having the ship vulnerable would force people to use worthless ships for doing the structures, because the inherent risk. It just makes sense to have some kind of protection to ensure people do them without having to use tedious workarounds and competition actually happens within the structures. |
Josef Djugashvilis
673
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 11:43:00 -
[146] - Quote
If this is done properly, it could lead to a substantial increas in Eve subscription numbers. So many books, so little time. |
Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 12:03:00 -
[147] - Quote
From walking around a station (which you failed to accomplish) to this is one of the reasons why it will not work.
Great vision of ideas, zero vision of implementation.
There are so many reasons why this will not work they don't really seem worth mentioning.
But urm, good luck anyway I guess.
I am a little envious of the whole development thing youve got going on at CCP though, it must be nice to be able to just prototype things all the time. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
473
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 12:21:00 -
[148] - Quote
This is a fantastic idea. Great to see that you've gotten some buy in. This is could be the most exciting features since wormholes and tech 3.
One question. What happened to player tattoos? According to the EVE keynote these were meant to be coming this year?
I really getting sick of they way certain people in CCP management constantly have to state that CCP is focusing on FIS and not walking in stations. We get that already, geez. But what you don't realize is how long many, many players have been looking forward to finally meet each other's avatars (in stations or down the barrel of the gun).
We have been literally waiting to see this happen for years, and you are asking us to wait longer still. Avatar game play is starting to seem like some sort of mythical carrot on a stick designed sorely to keep us subscribed on the promise that it may one day happen.
How long do you expect to keep us waiting I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1324
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 12:51:00 -
[149] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: How long do you expect to keep us waiting
They just said it, they'll get to this after the dust settles.
\o/
victorious pun
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Unit XS365BT
Unit Commune Celestial Imperative
67
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 13:17:00 -
[150] - Quote
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:From walking around a station (which you failed to accomplish) to this is one of the reasons why it will not work.
Great vision of ideas, zero vision of implementation.
There are so many reasons why this will not work they don't really seem worth mentioning.
But urm, good luck anyway I guess.
I am a little envious of the whole development thing youve got going on at CCP though, it must be nice to be able to just prototype things all the time.
Forum alt fails again.
"This won't work but i'm not going to give any valid reasons why it won't... waah waah QQ QQ QQ'
While the implementation of incarna was an abject failure, there is no reason that this new iteration of Avatar gameplay will be the same.
Firstly, as should be apparent, the team at CCP are spending longer ensuring that it is a complete game asset before implementation. That in and of itself is the main reason I believe Incarna got such a terrible player response.
even the :18 month: meme was utterly incorrect. 6 months before Incarna FiS content was released. (unless people are intending to claim that Incursion was not FiS)
If implemented correctly, and in a complete form (if not finished.. this is an MMO, nothing is EVER finished) then I can see this Idea working very well...
Good luck TA. |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2517
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:00:00 -
[151] - Quote
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:From walking around a station (which you failed to accomplish) to this is one of the reasons why it will not work.
Great vision of ideas, zero vision of implementation.
There are so many reasons why this will not work they don't really seem worth mentioning.
But urm, good luck anyway I guess.
I am a little envious of the whole development thing youve got going on at CCP though, it must be nice to be able to just prototype things all the time.
Well you see, this is how things work in real companies... as opposed to the theoretical imaginings of armchair CEO's. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:04:00 -
[152] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Well you see, this is how things work in real companies... as opposed to the theoretical imaginings of armchair CEO's.
Haha is that right? You think many companies spend resources like this on prototype software? The traditional cycle is Concept, greenlight development but TA started development before greenlighting the project, thats risky. Like I said though must be nice to have the resources available to do that. |
Brooks Puuntai
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
863
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:10:00 -
[153] - Quote
Omg its t0fi. I was wondering where you were hiding. Please take back over lead designer, probably a demotion but still.
No offense Soundwave. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2517
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:15:00 -
[154] - Quote
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:Unit XS365BT wrote:"This won't work but i'm not going to give any valid reasons why it won't... waah waah QQ QQ QQ' Do I really need to state the reasons why it wont work? No I don't, but it doesnt matter, I'm sure TA have done reels of concept work, anybody can see the reasons why it wont work and I hope TA can prove me and them wrong, but I don't see it. Ranger 1 wrote:Well you see, this is how things work in real companies... as opposed to the theoretical imaginings of armchair CEO's. Haha is that right? You think many companies spend resources like this on prototype software? The traditional cycle is Concept, greenlight then development, but TA started development before greenlighting the project, thats risky. Like I said though must be nice to have the resources available to do that. As far as I'm concerned they can work on these little ideas as long as they want, I don't expect it will make it into the EVE we know so I'll just forget all about it, just like WIS. CCP are unrivaled at ideas and future visions but the problem with this is it requires significant foresight into the future, foresight CCP don't seem to have, again I hope to be proven wrong though. We can only wait and see.
So.... you missed the whole "developing the concept" part of this project as it was being discussed on the forums and internally for several months I see.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:27:00 -
[155] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:So.... you missed the whole "developing the concept" part of this project as it was being discussed on the forums and internally for several months I see. Then once the concept was given the go ahead the (very quick to develop and comparatively inexpensive) prototype was developed.
... and yes, if you are going to make bold statements about how this concept won't work you need to back it up... preferably with fact rather than opinion.
According to
This thread
Development started prior to the greenlight.
Youtube video showing development
I don't think this is concept, this is development work. |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
325
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:40:00 -
[156] - Quote
sounds like fun. Kinda like in Promeutheus. Too bad it will be years before it comes out but maybe Dust will bring in a ton of money and they can use that to pay for it Selective Pressure [FOVRA] is now recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1797934#post1797934 |
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CCP Bayesian
467
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:43:00 -
[157] - Quote
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:So.... you missed the whole "developing the concept" part of this project as it was being discussed on the forums and internally for several months I see. Then once the concept was given the go ahead the (very quick to develop and comparatively inexpensive) prototype was developed.
... and yes, if you are going to make bold statements about how this concept won't work you need to back it up... preferably with fact rather than opinion. According to This threadDevelopment started prior to the greenlight. Youtube video showing developmentI don't think this is concept, this is development work.
It's a bit of a gray line, where does the concept end and the gameplay start? Just thinking about ideas isn't necessarily going to get good results. Making a simple version you can play does. Essentially what we've done is a period a taking a concept and trying to make some fun gameplay with it. Ideas are a dime a dozen, what matters is execution and this is a good way to short circuit part of the execution so that you haven't got months into development only to realise there isn't a good game forthcoming. Rather fail early and often without spending too much in order to get to an awesome idea than spend years making something with no clear idea of what the end result is going to be. I've been there and got that t-shirt at other companies, so I'm not anxious to repeat the experience. EVE Software Engineer Team Avatar |
|
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
61
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:46:00 -
[158] - Quote
It's missing a Space Compass. But almost!
In all seriousness, I do not know what CCP has planned for any sort of combat in the EVA exploration of Sleeper structures, but it would be unrealistic if we couldn't arm ourselves. |
Shiroh Yatamii
Alexylva Paradox
61
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:49:00 -
[159] - Quote
Kan'loch Lacoud wrote:May have been asked before, but what happens to your ship when you are doing EVA, do you 'dock' in the structure or is it left there in space for anyone to board/steal?
As I recall (Maybe from Ten Ton Hammer interview?) it will be left in space for anyone to board or destroy, meaning you can be stranded.
Were I a capsuleer I'd disconnect my pod and try to fit it in the structure somehow...getting stuck in J125125 without a ship would suck! At least with a pod you'd be able to leave the structure and use bookmarks to get back to kspace. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
115
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:50:00 -
[160] - Quote
While we're all revolutionizing CCP's development practices from the comfort of our armchairs, I note that TA's work on this project is postponed for a while, during which time the company seems to be focusing hard on things like customizable NPC AI, new ships, further work on fitting and inventory code, and other baseline work on the game that, besides being urgent and justified on their own merits, could be vital to making this development work well. I'm sure that nobody at CCP wants to build major new content on rickety old systems.
|
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Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
816
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:59:00 -
[161] - Quote
Nope!
If I want to play a avatar based MMO, there is WoW (and I can play as a panda!) and if I want the more sci-fi direction, I have SWTOR and STO to choose from.
The only reason Team Avatar should even exist is to convince the rest of CCP that Dust 514 on a console being phased out is a ******* dumb idea. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1251
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 15:02:00 -
[162] - Quote
Alpheias wrote: The only reason Team Avatar should even exist is to convince the rest of CCP that Dust 514 on a console being phased out is a ******* dumb idea.
Because no way will a game built to be added on to perpetually like EvE will ever be updated to ps4. |
Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 15:02:00 -
[163] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:It's a bit of a gray line, where does the concept end and the gameplay start? Just thinking about ideas isn't necessarily going to get good results. Making a simple version you can play does. Essentially what we've done is a period a taking a concept and trying to make some fun gameplay with it. Ideas are a dime a dozen, what matters is execution and this is a good way to short circuit part of the execution so that you haven't got months into development only to realise there isn't a good game forthcoming. Rather fail early and often without spending too much in order to get to an awesome idea than spend years making something with no clear idea of what the end result is going to be. I've been there and got that t-shirt at other companies, so I'm not anxious to repeat the experience.
Concept ends when you have a roadmap from start to finish of development, when you have discussed and brainstormed every possible outcome to every possible situation, when you have artistic representational drawings of the environment, characters effects, lighting, and miscellaneous models, You should have enough concept material that when you give it to another person not involved in the concept they can tell you exactly what is going to become of it, after many hours of boring boardroom meetings, the concept is a foundation, and with an unfinished foundation even if you do manage to build it, it will fall down around you.
CCP Bayesian wrote:So that you haven't got months into development only to realise there isn't a good game forthcoming
This is obviously a lesson you learnt from Incarna, but isn't this the point of concept? Surely you know what the end goal is, how can you not, you can't just make things and hope they turn into something fun.
Playing what you have is mostly irrelevant because you do it in isolated environments that can be predicted, the experience will NOT be the same when released to the general EVE population, whats fun in the office is not neccesarily fun for the people who haven't worked on it.
In my opinion if you cannot gaurantee it's going to be fun or worthwhile for the players, then your not ready to start development.
Regardless I don't know how much work you have done on this, concept or otherwise, there is no way for me to know (unless I secretely work for CCP) but if you do have a strong foundation, concept art and clear roadmaps, maybe you should release some of that instead of just creating a forum post trying to hype things up. talk is cheap as they say, typing cheaper. |
Alice Saki
9603
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 15:03:00 -
[164] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Nope!
If I want to play a avatar based MMO, there is WoW (and I can play as a panda!) and if I want the more sci-fi direction, I have SWTOR and STO to choose from.
The only reason Team Avatar should even exist is to convince the rest of CCP that Dust 514 on a console being phased out is a ******* dumb idea.
The hate is strong in this one. Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
|
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
816
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 15:10:00 -
[165] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Alpheias wrote: The only reason Team Avatar should even exist is to convince the rest of CCP that Dust 514 on a console being phased out is a ******* dumb idea.
Because no way will a game built to be added on to perpetually like EvE will ever be updated to ps4.
Is it even realistic to assume that CCP can expect to recover the development costs from this generation and the next? Unless Dust 514 is a smashing success and I have my doubts about that, I don't think CCP 514 will be on the PS4 or whatever unless Sony goes in and fully funds it at that point.
Alice Saki wrote:Alpheias wrote:Nope!
If I want to play a avatar based MMO, there is WoW (and I can play as a panda!) and if I want the more sci-fi direction, I have SWTOR and STO to choose from.
The only reason Team Avatar should even exist is to convince the rest of CCP that Dust 514 on a console being phased out is a ******* dumb idea. The hate is strong in this one.
Thanks. I do my best to be modest about it too. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
115
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 15:12:00 -
[166] - Quote
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:Playing what you have is mostly irrelevant because you do it in isolated environments that can be predicted, the experience will NOT be the same when released to the general EVE population, whats fun in the office is not neccesarily fun for the people who haven't worked on it.
This is why every successful MMO has developed the game that the studio employees themselves want to play. It's how WoW started; it's how EVE started.
Considering that Team Avatar are prototyping the gameplay, and that's the important part, I don't know why you're so hung up on "foundations," whatever those are (EVE?) and concept art. CCP is not lacking for concept art for sleeper interiors and capsuleers out of pod. You can find it all over the place. There's even a video of guys in suits docking a ship and exploring a sleeper ruin.
You know a game will be fun when it's still colored blocks. In fact, there are several well-regarded indie games out now that are nothing but gameplay with colored blocks. No amount of lore and art can save a game if it doesn't have that core playability. See SW:TOR. And if you design for some imagined audience, and try to guess what they might like even if you don't like it... well, good luck. |
Alice Saki
9605
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 15:14:00 -
[167] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Alpheias wrote: The only reason Team Avatar should even exist is to convince the rest of CCP that Dust 514 on a console being phased out is a ******* dumb idea.
Because no way will a game built to be added on to perpetually like EvE will ever be updated to ps4. Is it even realistic to assume that CCP can expect to recover the development costs from this generation and the next? Unless Dust 514 is a smashing success and I have my doubts about that, I don't think CCP 514 will be on the PS4 or whatever unless Sony goes in and fully funds it at that point. Alice Saki wrote:Alpheias wrote:Nope!
If I want to play a avatar based MMO, there is WoW (and I can play as a panda!) and if I want the more sci-fi direction, I have SWTOR and STO to choose from.
The only reason Team Avatar should even exist is to convince the rest of CCP that Dust 514 on a console being phased out is a ******* dumb idea. The hate is strong in this one. Thanks. I do my best to be modest about it too.
I always go Darkside in Swtor as well :P Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
707
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 15:37:00 -
[168] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:Also, CCP, why do you develop prototypes of new features then pitch them to management? Management does not pay for them to be developed, we do. Pitch them to us, get our approval. Vincent, if you'll think back, Torfi and a few others did broach the idea of developing Avatar game play along this line and asked for feed back. Based on that generally positive feed back they proceded from there to put together a plan and a demo that they could pitch to the rest of the management team... which obviously have to give the final approval. Player input and feed back is extremely valuable, but you can't run a company by popular vote. It's nice in theory, but impractical in practice. To follow on from this its also about getting feedback in an appropriate venue. There were some fair concerns from some people in CCP that putting out what we developers wanted to would inevitably end up getting misconstrued. We're definitely hoping to get some good feedback at fanfest though and a more personal interaction will help that.
The feedback you get here is not good enough ? only the ones with the time and money to go to fanfest have good feedback?
You personally asked this community about ideas and feedback ,enough ideas and proposals came from the players who take the time to visit these forums only to get rewarded with silence and trolls. I know this was a management decision ,but still
Well then ,we have to be patient again , i am willing to AGAIN . I hope this time any videos about WIS shown on Fanfest will be on youtube
Ooh at least the word " Soon" is not used this time
Keep on prototyping and good luck If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
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CCP Bayesian
469
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 15:50:00 -
[169] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The feedback you get here is not good enough ? only the ones with the time and money to go to fanfest have good feedback?
No, the feedback here from what we've said and shown here has been excellent and helpful. I'm pretty sure there is a large group of people who could provide excellent feedback but fanfest is an opportunity for us to show things and get feedback face to face. If and when development actually goes forward I'd be pushing for lots of community involvement as early as possible. I don't see any other way of really developing a game feature in as complex a system as EVE Online where emergent behaviour and interesting social interactions are such a big part of the game. EVE Software Engineer Team Avatar |
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Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
253
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 15:53:00 -
[170] - Quote
So is there anything you can tell us, in the meantime, about what the team plans to work on in the near future? - if progress on this is effectively shelved 'til resources are available. |
|
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CCP Prime
C C P C C P Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 15:58:00 -
[171] - Quote
Hiram Alexander wrote:So is there anything you can tell us, in the meantime, about what the team plans to work on in the near future? - if progress on this is effectively shelved 'til resources are available.
We certainly are still prototyping, but now we're not dealing with organic material. |
|
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
253
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 16:01:00 -
[172] - Quote
CCP Prime wrote:Hiram Alexander wrote:So is there anything you can tell us, in the meantime, about what the team plans to work on in the near future? - if progress on this is effectively shelved 'til resources are available. We certainly are still prototyping, but now we're not dealing with organic material. Hmm... mysterious ;)
Any news on releasing previous (organic?) work, like racial blending? |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
707
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 16:02:00 -
[173] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The feedback you get here is not good enough ? only the ones with the time and money to go to fanfest have good feedback? No, the feedback here from what we've said and shown here has been excellent and helpful. I'm pretty sure there is a large group of people who could provide excellent feedback but fanfest is an opportunity for us to show things and get feedback face to face. If and when development actually goes forward I'd be pushing for lots of community involvement as early as possible. I don't see any other way of really developing a game feature in as complex a system as EVE Online where emergent behaviour and interesting social interactions are such a big part of the game.
I am not gonna try to change the mind of CCP and you ,but this does not convince me. Like i said , i am willing to have the patience
But first starting a discussion on this forum and then move it on to fanfest doesn,t add up ,for me personally The only reason i see , a marketing trick for fanfest But ok ,its your and CCP,s call
But what about the CQ ,can we expect at least some changes there ? Like i said before those screens could use some usability And who knows even maybe something more then 1 room?
If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
267
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 16:03:00 -
[174] - Quote
Any dev types care to respond to my concerns voiced here? What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
88
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 16:10:00 -
[175] - Quote
Well this looks remotely interesting. As in, Im all for extravehicular activities involving my avatar, but I'm skeptic as to when I'll get to see it. Looking forward to some extravehicular activity in 2021. |
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
125
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 16:18:00 -
[176] - Quote
Gotta say, this sounds very interesting... |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
913
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 16:41:00 -
[177] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Any dev types care to respond to my concerns voiced here?
Yes, it will be years.
Probably at least 2 years before we see this.
2013 will be all about POS' and Ring mining, hopefully. Then you're going to have a null sec Sovereignty Fix, and then there is openings for Avatar Gameplay.
Meanwhile, Dust is getting along somewhere in between all of this.
Where I am. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
707
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 16:45:00 -
[178] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:Any dev types care to respond to my concerns voiced here? Yes, it will be years. Probably at least 2 years before we see this. 2013 will be all about POS' and Ring mining, hopefully. Then you're going to have a null sec Sovereignty Fix, and then there is openings for Avatar Gameplay. Meanwhile, Dust is getting along somewhere in between all of this.
Dust is getting all the attention its needs right now ,not somewhere in between. If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
Creat Posudol
German Oldies
61
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 20:22:00 -
[179] - Quote
I have to say I love the idea of being able to do EVAs. Be it in stations/ships (old/broken or operational), in space or even entering hostile structures.
If you do end up going the route proposed here, especially the resource gathering for implants (or whatever their use ends up being) please oh PLEASE make sure it isn't just repetitive. Missions are, as an example, quite repetitive. Include some sort of generated content, so it's not just a matter of learning the 3 or 4 existing layouts of a site to gather resource X, and after having done those it's just grinding. Surely creating content like this will be much more work intensive than creating any 'normal' mission, so it stands to assume there will unlikely be as many as there are missions (which already is too few).
Build modules that have many optional connections, generate levels (or whatever you want to call it) dynamically. Floating around in space surely gives much more options in that regard than a closed off station or ship, where walls and corridors are needed. I imagine something where you are in your space suit, floating through wreckage field. You might have to float to the remnants of the engine room to restore enough power to make one of the miraculously intact tools operational. Using that could allow you to pry open a container containing something of value or similar. The positions and models of all that can quite easily be generated, having a few options each. This would allow for great diversity in objectives, layouts and rewards with relative ease as only components need to be made, not complete arrangements/settings. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
474
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:26:00 -
[180] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The feedback you get here is not good enough ? only the ones with the time and money to go to fanfest have good feedback? No, the feedback here from what we've said and shown here has been excellent and helpful. I'm pretty sure there is a large group of people who could provide excellent feedback but fanfest is an opportunity for us to show things and get feedback face to face. If and when development actually goes forward I'd be pushing for lots of community involvement as early as possible. I don't see any other way of really developing a game feature in as complex a system as EVE Online where emergent behaviour and interesting social interactions are such a big part of the game.
When you say community involvement from an early stage, what do you mean? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2521
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 22:44:00 -
[181] - Quote
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:It's a bit of a gray line, where does the concept end and the gameplay start? Just thinking about ideas isn't necessarily going to get good results. Making a simple version you can play does. Essentially what we've done is a period a taking a concept and trying to make some fun gameplay with it. Ideas are a dime a dozen, what matters is execution and this is a good way to short circuit part of the execution so that you haven't got months into development only to realise there isn't a good game forthcoming. Rather fail early and often without spending too much in order to get to an awesome idea than spend years making something with no clear idea of what the end result is going to be. I've been there and got that t-shirt at other companies, so I'm not anxious to repeat the experience. Concept ends when you have a roadmap from start to finish of development, when you have discussed and brainstormed every possible outcome to every possible situation, when you have artistic representational drawings of the environment, characters effects, lighting, and miscellaneous models, You should have enough concept material that when you give it to another person not involved in the concept they can tell you exactly what is going to become of it, after many hours of boring boardroom meetings, the concept is a foundation, and with an unfinished foundation even if you do manage to build it, it will fall down around you. CCP Bayesian wrote:So that you haven't got months into development only to realise there isn't a good game forthcoming This is obviously a lesson you learnt from Incarna, but isn't this the point of concept? Surely you know what the end goal is, how can you not, you can't just make things and hope they turn into something fun. Playing what you have is mostly irrelevant because you do it in isolated environments that can be predicted, the experience will NOT be the same when released to the general EVE population, whats fun in the office is not neccesarily fun for the people who haven't worked on it. In my opinion if you cannot gaurantee it's going to be fun or worthwhile for the players, then your not ready to start development. Regardless I don't know how much work you have done on this, concept or otherwise, there is no way for me to know (unless I secretely work for CCP) but if you do have a strong foundation, concept art and clear roadmaps, maybe you should release some of that instead of just creating a forum post trying to hype things up. talk is cheap as they say, typing cheaper. Your obvious experience in video game design has prepared you well for your future career in the fast food industry.
Quote:Concept ends when you have a roadmap from start to finish of development, when you have discussed and brainstormed every possible outcome to every possible situation, when you have artistic representational drawings of the environment, characters effects, lighting, and miscellaneous models,
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Lyskal Oskold
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
1979
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 23:29:00 -
[182] - Quote
I approve of Team Avatar. I was starting to drift out of EVE, might come back in to do some slow moon hopping. Pirates are red, buddies are blue, if you're unlucky enough to be orange, I'll f*cking kill you.I wonder if all the pickles in the forums are tax exempt? |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
325
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 03:02:00 -
[183] - Quote
I'm curious as to what the purpose of this post is tbh Selective Pressure [FOVRA] is now recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1797934#post1797934 |
Flamespar
Woof Club
474
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 05:09:00 -
[184] - Quote
One thing that you might consider doing when the time finally comes round to implementing this stuff is having a design competition where players can submit their own design for an establishment, or maybe design an object that can be found on the derelict stations.
I'd love to have a go at this. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Dex Tera
Clann Fian Transmission Lost
49
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 07:21:00 -
[185] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential
why haz mag booties when u can haz an eva suit with little thrusters to maneuver in zero g also for eva activity we need a tether so we dont float off in to space but if that did happen i could just suicide too i also assume that capsulers will also be getting the same sleeper/talocan tech derived implants that the dusties have to make are eva/instation activities sfe for us
i really wana see some zero g game play inside of sleeper structures in sted of just walking i can walk in rl if i wanted to do that or play a walking simulator like dayz jk |
Cpt Tirel
NorCorp Security AAA Citizens
10
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 08:51:00 -
[186] - Quote
Awesome |
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CCP Bayesian
475
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 09:09:00 -
[187] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The feedback you get here is not good enough ? only the ones with the time and money to go to fanfest have good feedback? No, the feedback here from what we've said and shown here has been excellent and helpful. I'm pretty sure there is a large group of people who could provide excellent feedback but fanfest is an opportunity for us to show things and get feedback face to face. If and when development actually goes forward I'd be pushing for lots of community involvement as early as possible. I don't see any other way of really developing a game feature in as complex a system as EVE Online where emergent behaviour and interesting social interactions are such a big part of the game. When you say community involvement from an early stage, what do you mean?
Getting the in development game into peoples hands as early as possible.
EVE Software Engineer Team Avatar |
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Alice Saki
9744
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 09:10:00 -
[188] - Quote
I'm doing nothing, Send everything to my house ^_^ Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4871
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 09:22:00 -
[189] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:More than that, I am an immortal capsuleer capable of taking and discarding planets, flesh and souls as a child would toys, and I do not expect having to tolerate wearing boots of the non-magneto variety
Obviously we need Magneto Boots. But we Caldari, having surpassed the decadent Gallente technology, will get Grav boots. Amarr Laser Boots will of course remain viable.
(Everyone try not to laugh at Disco Stu in his Minmatar Radio Boots.) MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4871
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 09:25:00 -
[190] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.
Please please please GÖÑ MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1910
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 09:29:00 -
[191] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive.
I'm excited!
But one question: in my writeup, "The Resurrection Men Storyboard" I touch on implementing the gameplay of the EVE Chronicles story of the same name: specifically, the location of interesting mental assets, securing those assets, extracting them from the host and then preparing them for market. That is, hunting down e.g.: a smart hacker, sitting that hacker in a couch and dosing them up with nanites, extracting the portions of their brain responsible for their elite hacking skills, packaging them up in an implant, and delivering the implant to the marketplace.
Initially my idea was for Dust Bunnies to do the legwork on behalf of capsuleers, with Planetary Interaction contributing to the manufacturing process.
Although I appreciate the need to keep things under wraps until you do the reveal at FanFest or through a mechanism of your choosing, is it likely that DUST 514 and Planetary Interaction will play significant roles in your proposed system of putting implant manufacture into the hands of the players?
Additionally, do you imagine the NPC markets participating in this industry at all through, say, replacing existing implants with various high-value components essential to manufacturing implants?
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1910
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 09:30:00 -
[192] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.
Is there any discussion of using station environments as a "open beta" for the multi-character environments before shoving us into combat environments with no training in the UI? Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4872
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 09:54:00 -
[193] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting. Is there any discussion of using station environments as a "open beta" for the multi-character environments before shoving us into combat environments with no training in the UI?
What? Those combat environments are the training MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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CCP t0rfifrans
C C P C C P Alliance
511
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 09:57:00 -
[194] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting. Is there any discussion of using station environments as a "open beta" for the multi-character environments before shoving us into combat environments with no training in the UI? We did consider it, but It actually takes quite an effort to make simple multiuser environments without any mechanics. It's almost half the work of doing the real feature, so we are not doing that as this point until we are commited and resourced to move forward with proper in-station gameplay. |
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Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1910
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 10:52:00 -
[195] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:We did consider it, but It actually takes quite an effort to make simple multiuser environments without any mechanics. It's almost half the work of doing the real feature, so we are not doing that as this point until we are commited and resourced to move forward with proper in-station gameplay.
I felt a great disturbance in The Force GǪ as if a million Barbies cried out in terror and were suddenly homeless. I fear basement virginity has happened.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
446
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 11:35:00 -
[196] - Quote
This is great news and good to see that team avatar have clearly been reading the feedback/suggestions that some of us, more die hard WIS supporters, have been posting for the past year or so now.
If there is ever a closed alpha/beta for this new content, i would love to be a part of it, CCP Bayesian.
I'm disappointed that Dust 514 (a game that a large portion of the community will not play) is effecting the future development/progress of EVE Online... But what can you do?!
Good luck TA,
Rek Seven They see me trolling, they hating... |
Marcus Harikari
Guitar Players of EVE
96
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 11:44:00 -
[197] - Quote
avatars FTW need to make walking in stations!!! |
Dagda Morr
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
3
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 13:08:00 -
[198] - Quote
I hated the woaling in station element of Incarna - not becasue I thought that avatars were a waste of time, just that it had literally no gameplay value at all beyond being space barbies.
As I see it 2x things need to happen to incorporate the walking in stations into the game - is has to be more than space barbies or glorified chat rooms. From what I'm reading it looks like this could be a really fun, my only issue is why do this when there is DUST? It would seem logical to just have DUST guys go into these wrecks - especially if it becomes essentially another FPS in ruined maps.
The other thing that work needs to be done so that it doesn't melt graphics cards - despite the optimisation done using the existing wa |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
186
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 13:21:00 -
[199] - Quote
This idea would certainly add new dimensions to Eve's gameplay.
I can understand the financial constraints of doing this, especially at the moment with DUST due, and personally (unlike many grumpy sods here) I appreciate you sharing these proto-ideas and concepts with us. Even if these things don't ever materialise it is interesting to speculate on the potential of Eve through additional new gameplay areas etc...
That potential is one of the most interesting things for me, and I often wonder if provided the game and company are still going what the game will encompass in 10, 20 or even 50 more years!
The demand for 'Eve' as a science fiction simulator will always be there, and if I had a few hundred million quid myself I'd be tempted to invest in developing more content for this game.
I wonder if you at CCP have considered either taking the game to angel investors like on Dragons Den or whatever? - Yes I'd be sceptical of that as a player because outside investors would probably demand you squeeze players as hard as possible to make as much as they could on their investment.
Another possibility is outsourcing other gameplay elements to other development companies and considering bolt on additions to gameplay - for example PKR avatar poker might be interested in providing that content themselves either by license or whatever, and it might be more realistic for them to develop in partnership with CCP rather than you at CCP do it all in-house?
Whatever course and direction you folks take I'm glad the communication is better than it was before Incarna for example. Keep us players informed and the more rational element of us will thank you for it.
Cheers.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
446
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 14:18:00 -
[200] - Quote
Dagda Morr wrote: my only issue is why do this when there is DUST? It would seem logical to just have DUST guys go into these wrecks - especially if it becomes essentially another FPS in ruined maps.
Yeah i see your point, It's totally logical to expect your customers to go out and spend -ú200 on a PS3 just to play a FPS... They see me trolling, they hating... |
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Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
129
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 14:52:00 -
[201] - Quote
Great another thing for bitter vets to complain about more care bears in space stations. A narrow mind is a focused mind. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
124
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:33:00 -
[202] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote: I don't see how - again, in the grand scheme of things - this is any different from exploring anomalies from my battlecruiser by shooting said sleepers with space guns. Other than the switch of the gaming genre to one perhaps not everybody (myself included) particularly enjoys. End result is the same, you go in, you shoot some NPCs, you get loot. Only the visuals differ...
With the added possibilty that your spaceship was captured/destroyed whilst you were poking about - Now you're stuck in a hostile environment witho0ut so much as a pod to your name...
Actually, I can see several ways such a scenario could be dealt with, and be made awesome. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
475
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 23:25:00 -
[203] - Quote
Time based puzzles, like the hacking minigames you see in other games, would be a great inclusion.
Here's an example for inspiration. Puzzle
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1265
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 23:53:00 -
[204] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Time based puzzles, like the hacking minigames you see in other games, would be a great inclusion. Here's an example for inspiration. Puzzle While I like puzzles, and that's a good example if it was a pure exploration game type. this is action adventure. If you ever played Bioshock 1 you would recall how much the hacking pipe puzzle game took you out of the pace of the game. We are more likely to see randomized corridors and choosing between dealing with auto turrets or time locks that will trap us in hostile environments for X amount of time with hacking being a time - skills function. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
475
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 23:56:00 -
[205] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Flamespar wrote:Time based puzzles, like the hacking minigames you see in other games, would be a great inclusion. Here's an example for inspiration. Puzzle While I like puzzles, and that's a good example if it was a pure exploration game type. this is action adventure. If you ever played Bioshock 1 you would recall how much the hacking pipe puzzle game took you out of the pace of the game. We are more likely to see randomized corridors and choosing between dealing with auto turrets or time locks that will trap us in hostile environments for X amount of time.
Personally I think there is room for both approaches.
And that pipe puzzle game was a stupid inclusion in bioshock. I don't know what they were thinking.
I think having to solve a puzzle to open a door (whilst your friends cover you from potential attack) is far more interesting than clicking a button, and waiting for a countdown to complete. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
327
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 00:59:00 -
[206] - Quote
I really want more WiS game play. I was kind of hoping for some kind of in-station sociable environment first, rather than the whole exploration thing. Would be nice to see the mini-games and gambling etc.
No, i'm not a carebear (most of the time). I do like blowing stuff up in my spaceship, but I would really like to see some station interiors. As for the exploration idea, I think it sounds fantastic and I cant wait to try it, but it would have been nice to see "Corporate Quarters" first. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
475
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 01:07:00 -
[207] - Quote
@ Team Avatar
Are stations interiors something you see as being developed in tandem with Dust514? Given that both capsuleers and dusties will use some of these spaces together?
I really want to be able to meet and command my dust bunnies. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
273
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 02:53:00 -
[208] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I really want more WiS game play. I was kind of hoping for some kind of in-station sociable environment first, rather than the whole exploration thing. Would be nice to see the mini-games and gambling etc.
No, i'm not a carebear (most of the time). I do like blowing stuff up in my spaceship, but I would really like to see some station interiors. As for the exploration idea, I think it sounds fantastic and I cant wait to try it, but it would have been nice to see "Corporate Quarters" first. Why are you surprised that the gameplay of "a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a room" is not priority. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1915
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 10:39:00 -
[209] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:Why are you surprised that the gameplay of "a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a room" is not priority.
In my case, I had genuinely expected that getting a bunch of people in a room where they aren't interacting with anything would be a stepping stone to having a bunch of people in a room interacting with stuff. So colour me disappointed that we'll be able to wander around sleeper ruins shooting each other long before we'll be able to wander around in stations sharing a drink. But that's the decision CCP have made, that's the decision that we'll support them in making by encouraging them to get this plan implemented and out to us for testing ASAP :)
The stuff that Team Avatar are teasing us with sounds really nice!
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Viscount Hood
Gallivanting Travel Company
33
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 12:53:00 -
[210] - Quote
Could be like the ruined station in The Reality Dysfunction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reality_Dysfunction
.....Tranquillity was founded to study the Ruin Ring, the remains of some forty thousand alien habitats which apparently self-destructed two thousand years ago.
.....Calvert dreams of making a big find in the Ruin Ring to finance repairs. Much to his surprise, Calvert indeed strikes lucky, finding a virtually intact memory core with the first-ever images of the reason for the Laymil racial suicide.
He does most of it in his ship, and then goes EVA to do the difficult bits
could it be a Jovian Laystation ruin?? |
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
708
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 15:12:00 -
[211] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:Arduemont wrote:I really want more WiS game play. I was kind of hoping for some kind of in-station sociable environment first, rather than the whole exploration thing. Would be nice to see the mini-games and gambling etc.
No, i'm not a carebear (most of the time). I do like blowing stuff up in my spaceship, but I would really like to see some station interiors. As for the exploration idea, I think it sounds fantastic and I cant wait to try it, but it would have been nice to see "Corporate Quarters" first. Why are you surprised that the gameplay of "a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a room" is not priority.
ah as expected the Goon with the/ Emoting response .
I wonder is it hard to copy and paste replies in this forums? If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
BoSau Hotim
671
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 10:32:00 -
[212] - Quote
CCP Unifex wrote:The team worked together to put a pre-production and production plan together using what they had learned over the previous months and also the lessons learned from the Incarna efforts from last year.
Incarna... the promise of Incarna and walking around in stations and having bars, shops, corporation meeting rooms was a dream that we were told would become a reality. But reality now is that it is only a dream again.
Will CCP ever make the EVE incarna expansion what it was originally supposed to be? or remain sidetracked on other dreams? I'm not a carebear...-áI'm a SPACEBARBIE! |
BoSau Hotim
671
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 10:40:00 -
[213] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:Arduemont wrote:I really want more WiS game play. I was kind of hoping for some kind of in-station sociable environment first, rather than the whole exploration thing. Would be nice to see the mini-games and gambling etc.
No, i'm not a carebear (most of the time). I do like blowing stuff up in my spaceship, but I would really like to see some station interiors. As for the exploration idea, I think it sounds fantastic and I cant wait to try it, but it would have been nice to see "Corporate Quarters" first. Why are you surprised that the gameplay of "a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a room" is not priority.
Because it was priority before. We were told in Dev blogs, we saw videos and had promises of all of this happening last year. and ... we are not all 'DUDES' some of us are dudettes.. and think of the growth of us babes on Eve if we had a more social way of playing- of course my idea of WIS social interaction would include barfights. I'm not a carebear...-áI'm a SPACEBARBIE! |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
341
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 11:24:00 -
[214] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote: Why are you surprised that the gameplay of "a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a room" is not priority.
When they were talking about in station environments the suggestion was that there was going to be content other than just emoting. Gambling, mini-games, being able to run the place for public entry with entry fees and corporate tax on gambling wins. They already made mock-ups for the UI and the mini-game seems pretty much complete from all the screen shots and the game-play we've already seen.
I think you would get more emergent game-play from that than you would from solving a few puzzles and looking for a blueprint in some old ruins.
BoSau Hotim wrote:of course my idea of WIS social interaction would include barfights.
Augmented immortal capsuleer bar fights. That would be almost as awesome as Chuck Norris fighting another Chuck Norris.
*Skill Training Complete: Kung Fu 5* |
Evelyn Meiyi
Meiyi Family Holdings
48
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 19:18:00 -
[215] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:(Zero Gravity)
Valve experimented with a kind of 'gravity cancellation' gel for Portal 2 -- the player would have been able to make any surface 'walkable'. Unfortunately, the discontinuity between the player's in-game orientation and what the inner ear was telling the body gave the play-testers motion sickness after a couple of minutes. |
Evelyn Meiyi
Meiyi Family Holdings
48
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 19:20:00 -
[216] - Quote
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:Alice Saki wrote:(Zero Gravity) Valve experimented with a kind of 'gravity cancellation' gel for Portal 2 -- the player would have been able to make any surface 'walkable'. Unfortunately, the discontinuity between the player's in-game orientation and what the inner ear was telling the body gave the play-testers motion sickness after a couple of minutes.
I'll go on record as saying that I love the idea of wreck-diving 'in person', as it were. I hope that we see some of it after Retribution (Pretty please?!) when more resources become available. |
Evelyn Meiyi
Meiyi Family Holdings
48
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 19:21:00 -
[217] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:(Zero Gravity)
Valve experimented with a kind of 'gravity cancellation' gel for Portal 2 -- the player would have been able to make any surface 'walkable'. Unfortunately, the discontinuity between the player's in-game orientation and what the inner ear was telling the body gave the play-testers motion sickness after a couple of minutes.
I'll go on record as saying that I love the idea of wreck-diving 'in person', as it were. I hope that we see some of it after Retribution (Pretty please?!) when more resources become available. |
Dax Golem
Frozen Dawn Privates
5
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 20:15:00 -
[218] - Quote
Would be a very interesting game mechanic. A new way for recon/scout enemy, ship fits, assets, plans. Also this would make a nice way to earn money from exploration and would certainly provoke conflicts :) Im all for this, thumbs up from me!
You are now breathing manually |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
710
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 20:50:00 -
[219] - Quote
Dax Golem wrote:Would be a very interesting game mechanic. A new way for recon/scout enemy, ship fits, assets, plans. Also this would make a nice way to earn money from exploration and would certainly provoke conflicts :) Im all for this, thumbs up from me!
well i hope you can go to Fanfest,if you have the time and money,So you can have a one to one talk about WIS If you don,t ,you are left out of the discussion If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision |
Sekket
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
33
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 22:09:00 -
[220] - Quote
I find myself asking why a pod pilot would leave the womb-like comfort and safety of the pod to go EVA when he could just send a drone which he can control remotely. - CQ isn't a refuge, it's a cage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu4iekX3WE |
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Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
354
|
Posted - 2012.10.13 23:13:00 -
[221] - Quote
Sekket wrote:I find myself asking why a pod pilot would leave the womb-like comfort and safety of the pod to go EVA when he could just send a drone which he can control remotely.
Because that wouldn't be as cool, and the ship drones are actually really big. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1290
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 00:55:00 -
[222] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Sekket wrote:I find myself asking why a pod pilot would leave the womb-like comfort and safety of the pod to go EVA when he could just send a drone which he can control remotely. Because that wouldn't be as cool, and the ship drones are actually really big.
Well, to give credit to the science of EvE. http://rewards.yourpshome.net/image/cache/data/Rewards/Dust%20514/dust-514-tk-70-personal-drone-103360757-320x176.png Personal drone you get from d/l Dust for avatars. I think that's canon enough.
Yet due to malfunctioning systems on the station, plus any superstructure signal dampening. Any drones we might have would likely be very short range... to make it interesting. Or find drone equipment inside the station, repair the relays between it and the objective and it will come alive and go tear down the broken door in your way. |
Darth Khasei
Sunstar Business Ventures Inc.
22
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 19:07:00 -
[223] - Quote
I am not going to lie, I really am not happy with this kind of deal. I just hope that all of the resources and time spent NOT doing the space part of this game turns out to be worth it.
Can't say any of that WIS, dresses for aurum crappola worked out well by any measure.
So this is the focus instead of mineable asteroids etc... of the things IN SPACE that were supposed to be added. Brilliant. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
710
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 20:08:00 -
[224] - Quote
Darth Khasei wrote:I am not going to lie, I really am not happy with this kind of deal. I just hope that all of the resources and time spent NOT doing the space part of this game turns out to be worth it.
Can't say any of that WIS, dresses for aurum crappola worked out well by any measure.
So this is the focus instead of mineable asteroids etc... of the things IN SPACE that were supposed to be added. Brilliant.
So the next expansion has nothing to do with spaceships ,am i right ? nothing to see here ,move on
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1061
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 20:08:00 -
[225] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Sekket wrote:I find myself asking why a pod pilot would leave the womb-like comfort and safety of the pod to go EVA when he could just send a drone which he can control remotely. Because that wouldn't be as cool, and the ship drones are actually really big.
A) The environment is too full of interference to allow adequate control of a drone, so you have to go. As to why go at all:
B) ISK http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2566
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 20:11:00 -
[226] - Quote
Darth Khasei wrote:I am not going to lie, I really am not happy with this kind of deal. I just hope that all of the resources and time spent NOT doing the space part of this game turns out to be worth it.
Can't say any of that WIS, dresses for aurum crappola worked out well by any measure.
So this is the focus instead of mineable asteroids etc... of the things IN SPACE that were supposed to be added. Brilliant.
Out of the hundreds of CCP employees they had a team of 5 working on the prototype, among other things. I'm not sure where you are getting this impression from. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1295
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 20:12:00 -
[227] - Quote
Darth Khasei wrote: So this is the focus instead of mineable asteroids etc... of the things IN SPACE that were supposed to be added. Brilliant.
Do you see them bumping any current projects for it? Ring mining was already bumped for POS restructuring. Your Harvesting expansion have not been added due to other FiS projects. WiS is not going anywhere. It will be expanded upon eventually someday somehow to make it useful and fun. Get out of the way, you have plenty of time to accept it. Its still years down the road. |
Darth Khasei
Sunstar Business Ventures Inc.
22
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 20:13:00 -
[228] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:So the next expansion has nothing to do with spaceships ,am i right ?
NO you are not right.
|
Darth Khasei
Sunstar Business Ventures Inc.
22
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 20:15:00 -
[229] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Out of the hundreds of CCP employees they had a team of 5 working on the prototype, among other things. I'm not sure where you are getting this impression from.
What impression? I am am saying "any" time even from 5 guys is time away from space and it is. No it is not half the team etc... I just thought they had gotten the message about the dresses and fashion show in stations. No worries things will take care of themselves.
|
Darth Khasei
Sunstar Business Ventures Inc.
22
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 20:18:00 -
[230] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Do you see them bumping any current projects for it? Ring mining was already bumped for POS restructuring. Your Harvesting expansion have not been added due to other FiS projects. WiS is not going anywhere. It will be expanded upon eventually someday somehow to make it useful and fun. Get out of the way, you have plenty of time to accept it. Its still years down the road (and that's not because of production time for the project itself, its because of everything else in front of it).
I am unaware if they bumped any projects or not.. I think your post hits upon my and other's reservations about WIS since it is not useful or fun ATM. If it is indeed years away that is good and that means the focus will be on space as it should be in the interim. |
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2568
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 20:34:00 -
[231] - Quote
Darth Khasei wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Out of the hundreds of CCP employees they had a team of 5 working on the prototype, among other things. I'm not sure where you are getting this impression from. What impression? I am am saying "any" time even from 5 guys is time away from space and it is. No it is not half the team etc... I just thought they had gotten the message about the dresses and fashion show in stations. No worries things will take care of themselves. They did get the message, that's why they are using very modest resources to develop sound game play... as opposed to the dresses and fashion shows you mentioned.
Very, very few people wanted Avatar based game play to be completely off the radar. We all want to see EVE grow in a variety of directions. If you feel it should be completely abandoned (especially now that the underlying tech is in place) you won't find much support.
We just didn't want a disproportionate and unreasonable amount of resources devoted to it, particularly without a solid plan in place for the depth that type of game play that would be required to be a worthwhile addition to the EVE universe.
Which brings us to a 5 man team working first on defining the overall scope of solid and entertaining game play (with plenty of community feed back), and then working on a prototype that required a bare minimum of developer time and resources devoted to it to test whether their plan held water. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1295
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 20:34:00 -
[232] - Quote
Darth Khasei wrote: I am unaware if they bumped any projects or not.. I think your post hits upon my and other's reservations about WIS since it is not useful or fun ATM. If it is indeed years away that is good and that means the focus will be on space as it should be in the interim.
They explain its not a current goal right in the second post.
CCP Unifex wrote: So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
2013 is POS restructuring and ring mining maybe next winter. So we are already seeing 2014 dev time to a 2015 possible release in the shortest of time frames for some WiS. But still unlikely as there are many other projects like DX11 overhaul to make ring mining really incredible to see which was a really popular reaction to those that saw it last fan fest. Same with ship model destruction. Next april people will actually see the prototype at fanfest. Thats when all hell can break loose on whether or not it is truly worth it. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
271
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 21:40:00 -
[233] - Quote
Hey Khasei, relax man, you guys with the pitchforks and torches already scared the hell out of CCP and got your way. They stated there would be no new major technological expansions (what CCP called "Jesus features") and they've demonstrated that avatar game play is on the shelf indefinitely. It's all about spaceships for the foreseeable future, so relax and enjoy it. You got what you wanted.
Just don't complain as Eve and CCP's revenues stagnate because of them listening to guys like you and not develop anything new and innovative. Fixing bugs and iterating on old content keeps subscribers but, it's new features that get you NEW subscribers. Like it or not, CCP needs to bring in new blood as well as keep current customers happy in order to grow. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 05:33:00 -
[234] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Hey Khasei, relax man, you guys with the pitchforks and torches already scared the hell out of CCP and got your way. They stated there would be no new major technological expansions (what CCP called "Jesus features") and they've demonstrated that avatar game play is on the shelf indefinitely. It's all about spaceships for the foreseeable future, so relax and enjoy it. You got what you wanted.
Just don't complain as Eve and CCP's revenues stagnate because of them listening to guys like you and not develop anything new and innovative. Fixing bugs and iterating on old content keeps subscribers but, it's new features that get you NEW subscribers. Like it or not, CCP needs to bring in new blood as well as keep current customers happy in order to grow. We have won, for now. But we must remain vigilant until the voices of the deviant barbie emote loving freaks are silenced. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Alice Saki
10679
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 09:28:00 -
[235] - Quote
So................ We can't have both WiS and FiS?
I Like both xD Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
|
BoSau Hotim
758
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 09:47:00 -
[236] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:So................ We can't have both WiS and FiS?
I Like both xD
agreed! I just wish I had the final answer of why WIS was shelved and for how long?
Seriously, I was quitting eve until I found out about incarna.. resubbed just for it. Was sorely dissapointed.. ate some oreos and got over it. But to have some hope that it will be resurrected would be nice.
I'm not a carebear...-áI'm a SPACEBARBIE! |
Alice Saki
10685
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 09:50:00 -
[237] - Quote
I know, what wrong with Exploding a Spaceship and looking damn good at the sametime?! Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
|
Aragoni
Saerimnir New Eden Research.
5
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 10:15:00 -
[238] - Quote
I really want this feature. I also want to be able to socialize and play poker in pubs and such. The only thing that makes me a bit worried is that they pretty much refuse to scrap aurum as personally I think players themselves should handle production of clothes.
I would not mind if CCP focused more on WIS and less on FIS. |
Alice Saki
10693
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 10:31:00 -
[239] - Quote
I disagree, FiS is more important.
WiS is a nice little treat ^_^
The Real Question is, Where is World of Darkness? :P Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
|
Aragoni
Saerimnir New Eden Research.
6
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 10:40:00 -
[240] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:I disagree, FiS is more important.
WiS is a nice little treat ^_^
To be honest I think FIS and WIS are both equally important. I agree with the devs vision that EVE should be a sci-fi MMO and not just Spaceship Online. There's so much untapped potential in WIS that will improve the gameplay and attract new subscribers.
I understand if people are scared of WIS though as Incarna was horrible as it did not improve gameplay at all. |
|
Syna Anima
SYNDAX CORPORATION Yulai Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 13:46:00 -
[241] - Quote
Bah I think this is a bad idea, even worse to launch such ideas when they have nothing really to show. I know the vision, I like it, but experience tells us otherwise.
I think we would all benefit more from getting actual station environments where people can meet at corp offices and manage pubs. That is what Incarna had to be, but failed like a rock swimming. Now instead of talking about that we talk about some new, random, unnecessary feature that no one will use. Last time I logged into my station with my character was 1 year ago. Forcing people to play FPS games to get EVE items will not help either.
Creating a FPS experience in EVE will take a long time and most likely end bad simply because CCP has proven they are bad at it. Huge lags, huge performance issues, plain waste of time for EVE gameplay. Incarna was the biggest fail ever, lets try not to repeat a cycle here.
A better question is to see what is more important for the game now, I get the vision, it's great, but I think CCP is not ready to make the FPS step in EVE. Maybe in 10 years, maybe, or maybe if you hire 100 people to work on the FPS parts besides the current team. But ISK wise CCP cannot afford such things so it will have to cut from somewhere. So better allocate those resources where they are needed, don't waste it on stuff no one will use, or worse give us useless features like the mirror to look at in Incarna.
Does WIS fit EVE? Maybe WIS is not what EVE is meant to be and its just forced unto the game because "some" think this is a good idea, for whatever reasons. That might explain the fail from last try. Or maybe CCP is just plain bad at WIS content/development. The EVE Universe should expand in all ways, but we all have our limits, CCP better know theirs.
Gÿà Join us today! Gÿà |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
372
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 13:47:00 -
[242] - Quote
There may be plenty of people who aren't interested in WiS content, but if CCP suddenly announced that they were never going to bring out any more WiS content there would be a very large population within the community who would throw as big a hissy fit as when we had the Incarna protests. I already know 2 people in real life and about 10 in game who have unsubbed because they don't see any hope in Eve developing the WiS aspect any time soon.
I waited 2 years for walking in stations (significantly less than alot of people) and I was a little pissed at when we got with CQ, but I still want more.
Frankly, I think a 5 man team is far too small.
Syna Anima wrote:Maybe in 10 years, maybe, or maybe if you hire 100 people to work on the FPS parts besides the current team. But ISK wise CCP cannot afford such things so it will have to cut from somewhere.
Although I agree with you that we should have the social walking in stations before we start adding more action gameplay that no one wanted or asked for, the quote above does show you missed something. CCP have hired 100s of people to make an FPS, besides the current Eve online team. They can afford it, its in production. Whats to stop them from using a great deal of the code from Dust directly in Eve?
I'm not saying this is what I want, because I don't. I want a social, business, gambling and industry orientated WiS. But, you have to admit, it wouldn't take much would it? |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
105
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 14:12:00 -
[243] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Quote:Also, CCP, why do you develop prototypes of new features then pitch them to management? Management does not pay for them to be developed, we do. Pitch them to us, get our approval. Vincent, if you'll think back, Torfi and a few others did broach the idea of developing Avatar game play along this line and asked for feed back. Based on that generally positive feed back they proceded from there to put together a plan and a demo that they could pitch to the rest of the management team... which obviously have to give the final approval. Player input and feed back is extremely valuable, but you can't run a company by popular vote. It's nice in theory, but impractical in practice. To follow on from this its also about getting feedback in an appropriate venue. There were some fair concerns from some people in CCP that putting out what we developers wanted to would inevitably end up getting misconstrued. We're definitely hoping to get some good feedback at fanfest though and a more personal interaction will help that.
I sure hope you use a big enough room for this at fanfest, there was a few things I missed out on earlier this year due to the room filling up to fast. Senex Legio Recruiter Team |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
710
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 15:07:00 -
[244] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote: i have a thing for barbies reply
good luck with it
nothing to see here ,move on
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
710
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 15:11:00 -
[245] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:There may be plenty of people who aren't interested in WiS content, but if CCP suddenly announced that they were never going to bring out any more WiS content there would be a very large population within the community who would throw as big a hissy fit as when we had the Incarna protests. I already know 2 people in real life and about 10 in game who have unsubbed because they don't see any hope in Eve developing the WiS aspect any time soon. I waited 2 years for walking in stations (significantly less than alot of people) and I was a little pissed at when we got with CQ, but I still want more. Frankly, I think a 5 man team is far too small. Syna Anima wrote:Maybe in 10 years, maybe, or maybe if you hire 100 people to work on the FPS parts besides the current team. But ISK wise CCP cannot afford such things so it will have to cut from somewhere.
Although I agree with you that we should have the social walking in stations before we start adding more action gameplay that no one wanted or asked for, the quote above does show you missed something. CCP have hired 100s of people to make an FPS, besides the current Eve online team. They can afford it, its in production. Whats to stop them from using a great deal of the code from Dust directly in Eve? I'm not saying this is what I want, because I don't. I want a social, business, gambling and industry orientated WiS. But, you have to admit, it wouldn't take much would it?
Nah lets face it ,CCP will forget about WIS ,until there is a new game made by the competition ,that will have it all nothing to see here ,move on
|
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
130
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 15:23:00 -
[246] - Quote
Aragoni wrote:I understand if people are scared of WIS though as Incarna was horrible as it did not improve gameplay at all.
I know this is A Thing(TM), but it's not really accurate. Incarna brought CARBON, which brought threading to the EVE servers along with a great many performance optimizations, and a number of other improvements to the foundation of the game. If you prefer Time Dilation to lag then Incarna improved your gameplay. It was never all about "space barbies," even though the problem of multiple high-quality avatars is what spurred the development of CARBON in the first place.
As far as the avatar content goes, the basic problem wasn't what they'd been promising for years prior. Avatar gameplay in EVE of the "corp office and bar" variety goes back a lot farther than development on Incarna. The Incarna debacle was a combination of abjectly failing to deliver on those promises, the "Greed is Good?" manifesto, and the resulting NeX store with its overpriced items.
Execution no longer seems to be a problem at CCP, so I'm not worried at all about what this will "distract" from. They're busily overhauling the oldest parts of the game, so a lot of new shinies will just have to wait. In the mean time, things like rebalanced ships, redesigned POSes, redone corp interfaces, and other refreshed content should improve the game nicely, and lay the groundwork for new shinies.
There's part of me that is greatly amused at the consensus that Incarna should not be entirely player-driven content, but a form of PVE. Still, it looks like compelling PVE. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2572
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 15:56:00 -
[247] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Taiwanistan wrote: Why are you surprised that the gameplay of "a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a room" is not priority.
When they were talking about in station environments the suggestion was that there was going to be content other than just emoting. Gambling, mini-games, being able to run the place for public entry with entry fees and corporate tax on gambling wins. They already made mock-ups for the UI and the mini-game seems pretty much complete from all the screen shots and the game-play we've already seen. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME2815NN-Xc 1:00-1:20 and 1:55 - 1:59 and 2:08) I think you would get more emergent game-play from that than you would from solving a few puzzles and looking for a blueprint in some old ruins. BoSau Hotim wrote:of course my idea of WIS social interaction would include barfights. Augmented immortal capsuleer bar fights. That would be almost as awesome as Chuck Norris fighting another Chuck Norris. *Skill Training Complete: Kung Fu 5* In all seriousness, I have always maintained that Avatar game play (if it ever included combat) needed to have a well designed hand to hand system. It would seem a no brainer for generating action in a security heavy High Sec station. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
372
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 16:13:00 -
[248] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: In all seriousness, I have always maintained that Avatar game play (if it ever included combat) needed to have a well designed hand to hand system. It would seem a no brainer for generating action in a security heavy High Sec station.
To be honest, the bar fighting thing was really just a jest, I personally think Avatar game-play doesn't need combat. Although if you want a good hand to hand combat system, they are developing just that for WoD online, using exactly the same engine with the same models using compatible animations. Hmm...
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2572
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 16:20:00 -
[249] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: In all seriousness, I have always maintained that Avatar game play (if it ever included combat) needed to have a well designed hand to hand system. It would seem a no brainer for generating action in a security heavy High Sec station.
To be honest, the bar fighting thing was really just a jest, I personally think Avatar game-play doesn't need combat. Although if you want a good hand to hand combat system, they are developing just that for WoD online, using exactly the same engine with the same models using compatible animations. Hmm... My thought exactly. Cross development, despite cry's otherwise, actually has a lot of benefits. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 17:10:00 -
[250] - Quote
This sounds at first blush like the Dead Space environment (minus the Necromorphs).
However, the bitter taste of Incarna still lurks on my palate. The human avatars look nice, but they still move like broken marionettes and cannot physically interact with anything in their quarters. If CCP is planning to put these avatars into FP environments and expect us to move them around, I want a *lot* more fluid and dynamic movement. I also want optimized graphics that render at least 30fps without causing my video card to burst into flames.
Alternatively, if my avatar is a character dressed in a hazard suit (your usual armored Space Marine), then what was the point of the avatar creator? If my toon is going to be hidden under a hazmat suit, then avatar customization doesn't have much of a point. How will I recognize my corpies if we are attacked by other players?
I was willing to give CCP a lot of slack before the Incarna debacle, but now...not so much. I'd rather see some long-standing flaws in EVE get fixed first (FW, the missioning system, POS management, and the horrible window GUI).
|
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2573
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 17:18:00 -
[251] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:This sounds at first blush like the Dead Space environment (minus the Necromorphs).
However, the bitter taste of Incarna still lurks on my palate. The human avatars look nice, but they still move like broken marionettes and cannot physically interact with anything in their quarters. If CCP is planning to put these avatars into FP environments and expect us to move them around, I want a *lot* more fluid and dynamic movement. I also want optimized graphics that render at least 30fps without causing my video card to burst into flames.
Alternatively, if my avatar is a character dressed in a hazard suit (your usual armored Space Marine), then what was the point of the avatar creator? If my toon is going to be hidden under a hazmat suit, then avatar customization doesn't have much of a point. How will I recognize my corpies if we are attacked by other players?
I was willing to give CCP a lot of slack before the Incarna debacle, but now...not so much. I'd rather see some long-standing flaws in EVE get fixed first (FW, the missioning system, POS management, and the horrible window GUI).
Well, if this is brought in it will involve pretty much solving all the issues with multiplayer environments in Incarna... but with actual game play!
It would be relatively simply to fill in some social setting fluff afterwards... they just don't want something nearly as meaningless as what we already have to be their next step.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
BoSau Hotim
780
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 19:32:00 -
[252] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:Hey Khasei, relax man, you guys with the pitchforks and torches already scared the hell out of CCP and got your way. They stated there would be no new major technological expansions (what CCP called "Jesus features") and they've demonstrated that avatar game play is on the shelf indefinitely. It's all about spaceships for the foreseeable future, so relax and enjoy it. You got what you wanted.
Just don't complain as Eve and CCP's revenues stagnate because of them listening to guys like you and not develop anything new and innovative. Fixing bugs and iterating on old content keeps subscribers but, it's new features that get you NEW subscribers. Like it or not, CCP needs to bring in new blood as well as keep current customers happy in order to grow. We have won, for now. But we must remain vigilant until the voices of the deviant barbie emote loving freaks are silenced.
come silence me babe
frankly i think you need to have more vision, and look not just at your own style of gameplay but remember that it was CCP who came and promised WIS and got us hyped up about it.
you make me laugh tho snookums :) I hate emoting... :P I'm not a carebear...-áI'm a SPACEBARBIE! |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
1433
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 22:56:00 -
[253] - Quote
CCP Unifex wrote: The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
This is a good concept and will eventually result us having also _meaningful_ walking in stations feature where people can actually do something fun and constructive which is linked to existing eve world. You don't have to be rocket scientist to realize that if EvE wants more fresh blood to the game this is something what has to be made.
You seem to be very aware also about the fact that community would not tolerate if all developers suddenly started working only with wis, eva or what ever you call the incarna 2.0. For this reason you should set firm goal to far enough future where you know you can pull this through as side project to everything else. This is not something you should be afraid of because of past events, but is something what needs to be transparent and have clear time table. If the time table is 3 years then it is 3 years. People will be happy as long they know what they are waiting for and when it is coming.
It is obvious that when this development kicks in the normal expansion cycle will be longer that it is now. People will accept this too as long they know what the timetable is and get some sneak previews from the actual progress between few months. The normal "other EvE development" obviously has to continue at some reasonable level so really - set the time table to something you really can work with. 4 years?.
And finally golden rules:
- No hidden agendas like aurum in Incarna -> people will lynch the expansion. - If you people @ CCP have great plans to something what people have to wait long time and where you commit plenty of developing hours, people deserve to know what is coming. Too much information or long wait doesn't kill the expansion, but disappointment does. People have to know what they're waiting and get what they expect with the information they have. If they don't have information they set their own expectations which you can not meet. - If you hide something behind closed doors and expect huge wow moment when curtain is removed - you're doing it wrong. This kind of approach doesn't work in Eve and usually end up to disappointment. Recent examples: Incarna, Aurum, Unified Inventory. People expect something what you can not know before you tell what you're making and listen what people are expecting from it.
...that pretty much ends my wall about the topic. I'm all in for Incarna retake but do it properly with the community and include the corps and alliances to the mess at latest when it is time to plan the stations, their meaning, role and functionality as platform to various things. The potential to please also the PvP community with both social and economical functions is there. IE. upgradeable corporation/alliance offices/headquarters where Aurum or ISK could be utilized to rent/buy purely cosmetic upgrades or services (like private clubs, briefing rooms, bigger offices, furniture's, station adverts, recruitment offices and so on).
Make a plan and follow it through.
Get |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 03:59:00 -
[254] - Quote
BoSau Hotim wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:Hey Khasei, relax man, you guys with the pitchforks and torches already scared the hell out of CCP and got your way. They stated there would be no new major technological expansions (what CCP called "Jesus features") and they've demonstrated that avatar game play is on the shelf indefinitely. It's all about spaceships for the foreseeable future, so relax and enjoy it. You got what you wanted.
Just don't complain as Eve and CCP's revenues stagnate because of them listening to guys like you and not develop anything new and innovative. Fixing bugs and iterating on old content keeps subscribers but, it's new features that get you NEW subscribers. Like it or not, CCP needs to bring in new blood as well as keep current customers happy in order to grow. We have won, for now. But we must remain vigilant until the voices of the deviant barbie emote loving freaks are silenced. come silence me babe frankly i think you need to have more vision, and look not just at your own style of gameplay but remember that it was CCP who came and promised WIS and got us hyped up about it. you make me laugh tho snookums :) I hate emoting... :P
Read the whole devblog again, or the tldr I extracted for my sig, then think about how the gameplay of dudes emoting each other is frivolous and a waste of time. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
376
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 04:54:00 -
[255] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Make a plan and follow it through. I agree whole heartedly with your entire wall of text, except your "4 year" thing. That's far too long, I want it nao! Joking aside, it would be nice to see it in a years time. In two more expansions. After bounty hunting is done, the only other issue I have the with FiS is POSes, which really need fixing. If they do that in the next summer release there isn't really any other FiS features I want so see... Oh, except ring mining, and the rebalancing effort.
Taiwanistan wrote:Read the whole devblog again, or the tldr I extracted for my sig, then think about how the gameplay of dudes emoting each other is frivolous and a waste of time. Linkz please. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 05:05:00 -
[256] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Make a plan and follow it through. I agree whole heartedly with your entire wall of text, except your "4 year" thing. That's far too long, I want it nao! Joking aside, it would be nice to see it in a years time. In two more expansions. After bounty hunting is done, the only other issue I have the with FiS is POSes, which really need fixing. If they do that in the next summer release there isn't really any other FiS features I want so see... Oh, except ring mining, and the rebalancing effort. Taiwanistan wrote:Read the whole devblog again, or the tldr I extracted for my sig, then think about how the gameplay of dudes emoting each other is frivolous and a waste of time. Linkz please. Are you asking for a link to the devblog in the devblog discussion thread? TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
422
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 11:09:00 -
[257] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Arduemont wrote:There may be plenty of people who aren't interested in WiS content, but if CCP suddenly announced that they were never going to bring out any more WiS content there would be a very large population within the community who would throw as big a hissy fit as when we had the Incarna protests. I already know 2 people in real life and about 10 in game who have unsubbed because they don't see any hope in Eve developing the WiS aspect any time soon. I waited 2 years for walking in stations (significantly less than alot of people) and I was a little pissed at when we got with CQ, but I still want more. Frankly, I think a 5 man team is far too small. Syna Anima wrote:Maybe in 10 years, maybe, or maybe if you hire 100 people to work on the FPS parts besides the current team. But ISK wise CCP cannot afford such things so it will have to cut from somewhere.
Although I agree with you that we should have the social walking in stations before we start adding more action gameplay that no one wanted or asked for, the quote above does show you missed something. CCP have hired 100s of people to make an FPS, besides the current Eve online team. They can afford it, its in production. Whats to stop them from using a great deal of the code from Dust directly in Eve? I'm not saying this is what I want, because I don't. I want a social, business, gambling and industry orientated WiS. But, you have to admit, it wouldn't take much would it? Nah lets face it ,CCP will forget about WIS ,until there is a new game made by the competition ,that will have it all
Nah you're wrong and just acting like a ****. Please go play world of tanks. We don't need more bitter vets around here who can't adapt. Jerk. |
Alice Saki
10962
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 11:10:00 -
[258] - Quote
I played WoT last night, a Bittervet made me play, then he moaned when I stole 3 of his Kills ^_^
Lol Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
|
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 11:44:00 -
[259] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Metal Icarus wrote:My one concern is what happens to your ship while you are in EVA? Does your ship enter a stasis mode until you are dead? Can other people board your ship and steal it?
I think that this will make implants a much more interesting market! Even a profession! It would be interesting if people could in fact board your ship, but upon docking at the wreck while a second person is docked, they land at the other side of the wreck. It would result in having to cross the wreck to reach the other pilot's ship, meaning a conflict would likely happen in the middle, or at least the person who knew they would be stealing would have to "stealth" past the other explorer. Docking at the same spot and just turning around and boarding the other guy's ship just sounds a bit too easy :P
I honestly am not sure If I even would bother to look for other guys in a sleeper space station the size of New York City. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
195
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 12:33:00 -
[260] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:
Alternatively, if my avatar is a character dressed in a hazard suit (your usual armored Space Marine), then what was the point of the avatar creator? If my toon is going to be hidden under a hazmat suit, then avatar customization doesn't have much of a point. How will I recognize my corpies if we are attacked by other players?
I thought about that. The point is that if you're going to work on WiS with the aim of making it more LiR (Looting in Ruins) then you can easily just throw in bits of stations to walk into as well, maybe even some player interactions. Wouldn't it be cool if Avatars could shake hands? If your alliance was smart you'd have both the players meet up somewhere, and have the avatars shake hands and supply to screen shot to themittani.com/EN24 etc.
The reason to buy clothes is to show off your character, but even if you can't see the clothes on the fighting bit you can sneak in some of the 2nd life rubbish. I think playing games on stations could do with being introduced eventually too, virtual poker or whatever. Maybe even have shops that provide certain services you can only use by using WiS. You can't work on that crap on it's own though otherwise the players kick off. |
|
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
278
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 12:43:00 -
[261] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Alternatively, if my avatar is a character dressed in a hazard suit (your usual armored Space Marine), then what was the point of the avatar creator? If my toon is going to be hidden under a hazmat suit, then avatar customization doesn't have much of a point. How will I recognize my corpies if we are attacked by other players?
hey guys look at how these pants enhance my crotch /gangnam
Idris Helion wrote: I thought about that. The point is that if you're going to work on WiS with the aim of making it more LiR (Looting in Ruins) then you can easily just throw in bits of stations to walk into as well, maybe even some player interactions. Wouldn't it be cool if Avatars could shake hands? If your alliance was smart you'd have both the players meet up somewhere, and have the avatars shake hands and supply to screen shot to themittani.com/EN24 etc.
The reason to buy clothes is to show off your character, but even if you can't see the clothes on the fighting bit you can sneak in some of the 2nd life rubbish. I think playing games on stations could do with being introduced eventually too, virtual poker or whatever. Maybe even have shops that provide certain services you can only use by using WiS. You can't work on that crap on it's own though otherwise the players kick off.
vince draken wouldn't have dared to break the otec treaty if his avatar shook hands with the mittani's avatar in a neutral location /amirite TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 14:48:00 -
[262] - Quote
Anslo wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Arduemont wrote:There may be plenty of people who aren't interested in WiS content, but if CCP suddenly announced that they were never going to bring out any more WiS content there would be a very large population within the community who would throw as big a hissy fit as when we had the Incarna protests. I already know 2 people in real life and about 10 in game who have unsubbed because they don't see any hope in Eve developing the WiS aspect any time soon. I waited 2 years for walking in stations (significantly less than alot of people) and I was a little pissed at when we got with CQ, but I still want more. Frankly, I think a 5 man team is far too small. Syna Anima wrote:Maybe in 10 years, maybe, or maybe if you hire 100 people to work on the FPS parts besides the current team. But ISK wise CCP cannot afford such things so it will have to cut from somewhere.
Although I agree with you that we should have the social walking in stations before we start adding more action gameplay that no one wanted or asked for, the quote above does show you missed something. CCP have hired 100s of people to make an FPS, besides the current Eve online team. They can afford it, its in production. Whats to stop them from using a great deal of the code from Dust directly in Eve? I'm not saying this is what I want, because I don't. I want a social, business, gambling and industry orientated WiS. But, you have to admit, it wouldn't take much would it? Nah lets face it ,CCP will forget about WIS ,until there is a new game made by the competition ,that will have it all Nah you're wrong and just acting like a ****. Please go play world of tanks. We don't need more bitter vets around here who can't adapt. Jerk.
don,t look in the mirror and reply a thread at he same time m8 ,it does strange things nothing to see here ,move on
|
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
386
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 14:59:00 -
[263] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:don,t look in the mirror and reply a thread at he same time m8 ,it does strange things
Idiot 1.
Taiwanistan wrote:Generally insulting stuff
Idiot 2.
Post something constructive would you? Either that or **** off. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
201
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 15:04:00 -
[264] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Alternatively, if my avatar is a character dressed in a hazard suit (your usual armored Space Marine), then what was the point of the avatar creator? If my toon is going to be hidden under a hazmat suit, then avatar customization doesn't have much of a point. How will I recognize my corpies if we are attacked by other players?
hey guys look at how these pants enhance my crotch /gangnam
Since I didn't post that I'd appreciate it if you didn't quote me as saying that
Besides, if I'm going to invade an alien infested ruin I'd like to have a massive bulging crotch thanks. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 15:05:00 -
[265] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:don,t look in the mirror and reply a thread at he same time m8 ,it does strange things Idiot 1. Taiwanistan wrote:Generally insulting stuff Idiot 2. Post something constructive would you? Either that or **** off.
Lol hahahahaha in this one or the zillions other WIS threads i discussed in ,until idiot number 1 meets idiot number 2 nothing to see here ,move on
|
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
425
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 15:07:00 -
[266] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:don,t look in the mirror and reply a thread at he same time m8 ,it does strange things Idiot 1. Taiwanistan wrote:Generally insulting stuff Idiot 2. Post something constructive would you? Either that or **** off. Lol hahahahaha in this one or the zillions other WIS threads i discussed in ,until idiot number 1 meets idiot number 2
Your sentence is nonsensical. Get out. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 15:12:00 -
[267] - Quote
Anslo wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:don,t look in the mirror and reply a thread at he same time m8 ,it does strange things Idiot 1. Taiwanistan wrote:Generally insulting stuff Idiot 2. Post something constructive would you? Either that or **** off. Lol hahahahaha in this one or the zillions other WIS threads i discussed in ,until idiot number 1 meets idiot number 2 Your sentence is nonsensical. Get out. hmmm no!!
why? nothing to see here ,move on
|
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
389
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 15:22:00 -
[268] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: hmmm no!!
why?
Congradulations.
So far you have broken forums rules 4, 6, 12, 20, and 24 in just this thread. Can we keep this on topic please? |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 15:28:00 -
[269] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: hmmm no!!
why?
Congradulations. So far you have broken forums rules 4, 6, 12, 20, and 24 in just this thread. Can we keep this on topic please?
so tell me where i did broke the rules then
So now get back to speculating until fanfest and be topic nothing to see here ,move on
|
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
389
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 15:40:00 -
[270] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:speculating until fanfest and be topic
Speculating may not be particularly useful in most senses, but it does show our enthusiasm and you never know it may even highlight a few things CCP haven't thought about yet. If you want loads of speculation, take a look at their old upcoming UI video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME2815NN-Xc ) because its full of tasty little surprises. |
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 15:45:00 -
[271] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:speculating until fanfest and be topic Speculating may not be particularly useful in most senses, but it does show our enthusiasm and you never know it may even highlight a few things CCP haven't thought about yet. If you want loads of speculation, take a look at their old upcoming UI video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME2815NN-Xc ) because its full of tasty little surprises.
yeah speculating does show interest but we speculated and discussed WIS in multiple threads with devs We are asked to put in ideas by the devs until the threads were taken over by trolls whining about emotes and barbies and now to get some output from those discussions ,we have to wait until fanfest bc it seems that fanfest is a better place to discuss ,then the threads the devs asked for and responded to nothing to see here ,move on
|
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
389
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 16:03:00 -
[272] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:yeah speculating does show interest but we speculated and discussed WIS in multiple threads with devs We are asked to put in ideas by the devs until the threads were taken over by trolls whining about emotes and barbies and now to get some output from those discussions ,we have to wait until fanfest bc it seems that fanfest is a better place to discuss ,then the threads the devs asked for and responded to
so for the few posters above this one , am i reacting as a bittervet no way am i reacting ,like i am butthurt ? yes i do!!
Team Avatar was suddenly silenced by CCP after a lot of discussion here on this forum and a promise to show what they were doing. And finally after the silence they say ,we won,t discuss this anymore ,wait until fanfest
It's a shame CCP have stopped taking WiS content so seriously. Like I think I've already said in the thread somewhere, I know a good few people who have quit Eve because they've become disheartened by the fact they will never see WiS. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
280
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 16:53:00 -
[273] - Quote
hey look a patch full of apparel fixes yay! it's like an early x'mas goddamn TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 17:25:00 -
[274] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:hey look a patch full of apparel fixes yay! it's like an early x'mas goddamn
no its a patch full of DUST intergration ,some sort of consolecrap
But hey ,i don,t mind ,let them do it,others love it ,so it can,t be bad
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
129
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 19:14:00 -
[275] - Quote
When that thread was nearing end-of-life you really gave the impression that the idea had been cancelled by upper management. I'm glad to see the team has still been pushing forward to give us both a purpose to avatar gameplay and a major expansion to exploration. I'm still hoping for an EVE based full sci-fi simulator, even if it takes until FanFest XX. -á |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services Russian International Allegiance
62
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 19:29:00 -
[276] - Quote
I shall walk outside captain's quarters some day !
EVE Racing (currently on hold) |
kosswomen Mckay
Fight Club Outfit Zombie Ninja Space Bears
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 20:59:00 -
[277] - Quote
Thank God I found this post. Faith is restored in CCP Just do it ! |
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
259
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 23:40:00 -
[278] - Quote
kosswomen Mckay wrote:Thank God I found this post. Faith is restored in CCP Just do it ! Don't get your hopes up too high... I'm looking forward to it too, but at current best guesses on CCP's priority list, you're looking at a three year wait.
With any luck though, they'll take the positive feedback from the 'Station environment' fans, and get what's left of TA to work on that in the near future. Though, I'd reckon getting any official confirmation on that'd be like pulling your teeth out. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
1932
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 00:07:00 -
[279] - Quote
Hiram Alexander wrote:With any luck though, they'll take the positive feedback from the 'Station environment' fans, and get what's left of TA to work on that in the near future. Though, I'd reckon getting any official confirmation on that'd be like pulling your teeth out.
CCP have already stated in this thread that combat environments will be happening instead of WiS.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
259
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 00:28:00 -
[280] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Hiram Alexander wrote:With any luck though, they'll take the positive feedback from the 'Station environment' fans, and get what's left of TA to work on that in the near future. Though, I'd reckon getting any official confirmation on that'd be like pulling your teeth out. CCP have already stated in this thread that combat environments will be happening instead of WiS. Very true, though I wasn't referring to actual WIS (I guess I wasn't very clear on that). I was hoping they'd take that mock-environment they created and use the ideas behind it to re-vamp our ship-spinning hangars. |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
476
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 01:22:00 -
[281] - Quote
Since Dust players will be using the social spaces as well why not get the Dust devs to develop it. Time for Dust514 to give back to EVE.
They are already designing building interiors for dust matches. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
loki energon
Voodoo Children Workers Trade Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 02:24:00 -
[282] - Quote
can i have a sword? like a cool a$$ ninja sword? i really want to chop someones spacesuit up in a vacuum kill em all. |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
81
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 06:37:00 -
[283] - Quote
loki energon wrote:can i have a sword? like a cool a$$ ninja sword? i really want to chop someones spacesuit up in a vacuum how bout the Energy Sword from Halo?
seriously tho, an internal station environment was showcased during a fanfest years ago. WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT?! |
Nathanien Indoril
Engineering. Creation and Extraction
12
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 09:31:00 -
[284] - Quote
Hmm... i'm wondering... why is this only a thread, and not a dev blog?
It's hidden in the ... tremendous thing called GD... like you don't want that more people read it... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
477
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 11:48:00 -
[285] - Quote
I dunno. Personally I think it's insulting to the work of team Avatar and every player who has been waiting for meaningful avatar gameplay for the last 4-5 years to not allow them to post it as a Dev blog.
On a more positive note, in addition to implants, I was thinking it would be cool if we could find prototype weapons that we could sell to Dust players.
Also. I wonder who's derelict stations we will be exploring? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
gabrial13
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
4
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 12:03:00 -
[286] - Quote
Time for EVE to evolve into something better, good luck CCP, I am looking forward to this |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
396
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 13:38:00 -
[287] - Quote
I only wish more people would voice their want of WiS.
I speak to so many people who are longing for it, but it seems on the forums their voices are drowned out by a few angry (and usually terrible posters) people.
Edit: As for estimating how long they will take to introduce more avatar game play. I hope to see some Winterr of next year, I'm sure they're completely capable of it. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 14:48:00 -
[288] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I only wish more people would voice their want of WiS.
I speak to so many people who are longing for it, but it seems on the forums their voices are drowned out by a few angry (and usually terrible posters) people.
that is the reason that CCP management is so afraid ,instead of expanding they listen to some crybabies about a failure made more then a year ago. Now they have worked more then a year on the flying part of this game and Dust ,changing some stuff ,making it better looking and still people cry. A small team of a few devs are working on the WIS part ,but when the crybabies respond ,CCP panics
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
282
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 15:36:00 -
[289] - Quote
Please forgive me for being pessimistic, but how exactly is this update any different to pre-Incarna stuff of 3-5 years ago?
Remember all that talk of walking in stations, bars, gambling, etc., that never materialized? That's what this update boils down to as well - lots of great ideas with no timetable or plans to implement it any time soon. We'll hear something by the FanFest...oh, 6 months from now...maybe? And then maybe a year or two in development, so we might possibly see something by 2014...maybe? Same old, same old.
Really wishing you guys never even started on this Avatar stuff, if the management didn't have the sticktoiteveness to commit the money and resources to get it to working state.As it is right now, and in foreseeable future, it looks like a colossal waste of time, effort and talent. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 17:06:00 -
[290] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Please forgive me for being pessimistic, but how exactly is this update any different to pre-Incarna stuff of 3-5 years ago?
Remember all that talk of walking in stations, bars, gambling, etc., that never materialized? That's what this update boils down to as well - lots of great ideas with no timetable or plans to implement it any time soon. We'll hear something by the FanFest...oh, 6 months from now...maybe? And then maybe a year or two in development, so we might possibly see something by 2014...maybe? Same old, same old.
Really wishing you guys never even started on this Avatar stuff, if the management didn't have the sticktoiteveness to commit the money and resources to get it to working state.As it is right now, and in foreseeable future, it looks like a colossal waste of time, effort and talent. its worse then pre-incarna ,back then they talked about and showed their ambulation plans on a video and we loved it. Nowadays its well guessing what they exactly want to do with WIS
Remember the so called future vision video ,dude talks to dusties and then looks down a barrel of a gun. And now they are prototyping dungeons . Visions tend to change quickly at CCP
nothing to see here ,move on
|
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Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
423
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 20:21:00 -
[291] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Please forgive me for being pessimistic, but how exactly is this update any different to pre-Incarna stuff of 3-5 years ago?
Well, because now that have the core gameplay already integrated into the game. The core engine "carbon"is already in, and they now have a separate team working on a game that relies entirely on the engine using the same human character models that CQ uses, with the same animations etc. WoD.
The CSM keynotes mention they still have hundreds of clothing items done and unreleased. That would be a good start. It would be nice to see a few of those. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 20:28:00 -
[292] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Please forgive me for being pessimistic, but how exactly is this update any different to pre-Incarna stuff of 3-5 years ago? Well, because now that have the core gameplay already integrated into the game. The core engine "carbon"is already in, and they now have a separate team working on a game that relies entirely on the engine using the same human character models that CQ uses, with the same animations etc. WoD.
ok they have the engine and probably the art leftover from incarna days But tell me one thing and who knows ,maybe you make me optimistic after all the debating this last year
They are prototyping the whole thing for almost a year,how long does it take to come up with some gameplay and prototype it on an simplified engine ,a year? a few simple dungeons ?
You don,t tell me that CCP devs are lazy ,are you?
edit : and we have to wait longer ,bc they are prototyping until fanfest nothing to see here ,move on
|
Bane Necran
540
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 20:40:00 -
[293] - Quote
Yeah, i'm not believing any of that until i'm actually playing it.
Good luck, though. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
174
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 01:38:00 -
[294] - Quote
What happens if (when) you get killed EVA? Do you jump back to your ship, or to your medical station.
Is it a full clone on the line here (my main's clones are f---ing expensive) or some cheaper EVA only version?
On a related note - what happens to your ship when you're EVA. If you jump back to your medical clone how do you get back to your ship. Etc. |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
425
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 04:51:00 -
[295] - Quote
Anya Ohaya wrote:What happens if (when) you get killed EVA? Do you jump back to your ship, or to your medical station.
Is it a full clone on the line here (my main's clones are f---ing expensive) or some cheaper EVA only version?
On a related note - what happens to your ship when you're EVA. If you jump back to your medical clone how do you get back to your ship. Etc.
I like to think they would keep to Eve's harsh realities. If you die you should lose your clone and end up in your medical station, and your ship which would still be docked there.There has even been talk of people being able to steal your ship whilst your docked up, leaving your only method of escape as suicide and a clone jump home.
It would make for interesting gameplay, you may have to have people guard your ship on the outside. Alternatively you would get people using empty jump clones and docking up in a shuttle. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2586
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 05:44:00 -
[296] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Arduemont wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Please forgive me for being pessimistic, but how exactly is this update any different to pre-Incarna stuff of 3-5 years ago? Well, because now that have the core gameplay already integrated into the game. The core engine "carbon"is already in, and they now have a separate team working on a game that relies entirely on the engine using the same human character models that CQ uses, with the same animations etc. WoD. ok they have the engine and probably the art leftover from incarna days But tell me one thing and who knows ,maybe you make me optimistic after all the debating this last year They are prototyping the whole thing for almost a year,how long does it take to come up with some gameplay and prototype it on an simplified engine ,a year? a few simple dungeons ? You don,t tell me that CCP devs are lazy ,are you? edit : and we have to wait longer ,bc they are prototyping until fanfest You need to remember that a large part of that time was spent talking to the players, and sifting thru the huge volume of idea's and information to try and determine the best game plan to pursue.
Once that was done and a realistic plan for the proposed game play emerged, only then did work begin on the prototype. That was only a few months ago, and it looks like they are well satisfied with it.
That's actually a pretty big chunk of planning and work for only 5 devs to come up with in between other activities... so no, I wouldn't call them lazy. There were literally hundreds of different ways they could have gone, but I think they have wisely chosen to develop game play that is enjoyable in it's own right and is much more likely to be accepted as viable by the majority of the EVE community instead of a light fluffy social setting only offering that people will scoff at.
Light and fluffy can come a little later, and probably pretty easily as all of the technical obstacles will have already been faced. Social area's should be a cakewalk in comparison. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Optimo Sebiestor
The Society Calyxes
90
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 14:31:00 -
[297] - Quote
i wouldnt mind exploring a wast abandoned station, gather some materials for expensive implants. Return to my homestation, have a meeting, at a local bar inside the station, where i tell my Dust mercenaries wich system to start taking over districts in. Then stroll over to my captain's balcony, choose my ship, undock and figth for a new day. |
Optimo Sebiestor
The Society Calyxes
90
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 14:37:00 -
[298] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:
CCP have already stated in this thread that combat environments will be happening instead of WiS.
CCP Bayesian wrote:
A benefit from the EVA game is that a lot of the technology that would need to be developed to properly deliver the EVA experience would be directly useful in providing social areas and tools in stations.
|
Davon Mandra'thin
Solar Horizon Directive Blue Nation
107
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 15:10:00 -
[299] - Quote
Although I agree there are some FiS features that need addressing before any serious effort is put into avatar based gameplay, the two at the top of my list were Bounty Hunting, and POS rework. Now that the Bounty System is being addressed (and it looks amazing, by the way), I will be looking forward to the POS upgrades, but after that I have no major concerns about Eve... So it's time for something new and exciting. It's time for station wreck exploration.
Now that we have a much large community representative team, it would be really nice if perhaps one of them could get a dev to post an update post in here? Even if it's only a "we're still working on it, but nothing worth reporting" message, I want to hear it, just so I know they are in fact still working on it.
There has been a lot of support and chatter for/about Avatar based gameplay on the forums recently, and I think its about time we heard something. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 15:13:00 -
[300] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: You need to remember that a large part of that time was spent talking to the players, and sifting thru the huge volume of idea's and information to try and determine the best game plan to pursue.
Only to hear that a few select at fanfest can discuss this further.
nothing to see here ,move on
|
|
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
387
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 15:22:00 -
[301] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Really wishing you guys never even started on this Avatar stuff, if the management didn't have the sticktoiteveness to commit the money and resources to get it to working state.
The EVE community destroying any hope for the business plan that was supposed to carry WiS development ($1000 jeans) might have something to do with the lack of sticktoiteveness .... I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 15:23:00 -
[302] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:Although I agree there are some FiS features that need addressing before any serious effort is put into avatar based gameplay, the two at the top of my list were Bounty Hunting, and POS rework. Now that the Bounty System is being addressed (and it looks amazing, by the way), I will be looking forward to the POS upgrades, but after that I have no major concerns about Eve... So it's time for something new and exciting. It's time for station wreck exploration. Now that we have a much large community representative team, it would be really nice if perhaps one of them could get a dev to post an update post in here? Even if it's only a "we're still working on it, but nothing worth reporting" message, I want to hear it, just so I know they are in fact still working on it. There has been a lot of support and chatter for/about Avatar based gameplay on the forums recently, and I think its about time we heard something.
not until fanfest nothing to see here ,move on
|
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
433
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 17:13:00 -
[303] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:Although I agree there are some FiS features that need addressing before any serious effort is put into avatar based gameplay, the two at the top of my list were Bounty Hunting, and POS rework. Now that the Bounty System is being addressed (and it looks amazing, by the way), I will be looking forward to the POS upgrades, but after that I have no major concerns about Eve... So it's time for something new and exciting. It's time for station wreck exploration. Now that we have a much large community representative team, it would be really nice if perhaps one of them could get a dev to post an update post in here? Even if it's only a "we're still working on it, but nothing worth reporting" message, I want to hear it, just so I know they are in fact still working on it. There has been a lot of support and chatter for/about Avatar based gameplay on the forums recently, and I think its about time we heard something.
Do want Dev response. |
Becka Goldbeck
29
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 17:23:00 -
[304] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Really wishing you guys never even started on this Avatar stuff, if the management didn't have the sticktoiteveness to commit the money and resources to get it to working state.
The EVE community destroying any hope for the business plan that was supposed to carry WiS development ($1000 jeans) might have something to do with the lack of sticktoiteveness ....
Well it was practically done in 2008, then all that work was abandoned in favor of a new engine which would be used in WoD. I think that particular attitude towards micro-transactions arose afterwards. Soundwave playing LoL for a few months, or god knows where. |
Soulpirate
Bedrock Industrial
216
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 17:43:00 -
[305] - Quote
By the time this hits live servers(as if it ever really will) Dust514 will be a distant memory.
So now that Team Avatar has done it`s thing, and the descision has been made to shelf this project for a few years, what is their new name? I mean if I read this right, you are basically saying TA has done the prototype work, we liked it but wont bother with it at this time, so TA is moving on to other things.
|
Becka Goldbeck
29
|
Posted - 2012.10.18 17:49:00 -
[306] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:By the time this hits live servers(as if it ever really will) Dust514 will be a distant memory.
So now that Team Avatar has done it`s thing, and the descision has been made to shelf this project for a few years, what is their new name? I mean if I read this right, you are basically saying TA has done the prototype work, we liked it but wont bother with it at this time, so TA is moving on to other things.
Yeah, it's disappointing, I can't help but think that part of the reason is to wait for hardware to catch up to their engine. Which is yet another one of their blunders, they committed to this without knowing much about the tech. CCP's track record of leaving thing left to linger and moving on to new projects is disconcerting to me when it comes to this. |
Ghazu
219
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 06:48:00 -
[307] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:By the time this hits live servers(as if it ever really will) Dust514 will be a distant memory.
So now that Team Avatar has done it`s thing, and the descision has been made to shelf this project for a few years, what is their new name? I mean if I read this right, you are basically saying TA has done the prototype work, we liked it but wont bother with it at this time, so TA is moving on to other things.
I thought TA's prototyping is far from done? |
Alice Saki
12563
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 08:35:00 -
[308] - Quote
We'll see at fanfest I believe ^_^ Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4944
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 08:44:00 -
[309] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:By the time this hits live servers(as if it ever really will) Dust514 will be a distant memory.
yes, Dust will die even quicker than EVE did
http://www.eve-search.com/search/eve%20is%20dying
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Ayumi Hinoki
Shimai of New Eden
33
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 11:26:00 -
[310] - Quote
Finally!
There's light for Walk in Stations at the end of the tunnel! |
|
Hikaru Kuroda
Shimai of New Eden
66
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 11:50:00 -
[311] - Quote
Amazing to read that, hope we get some screens/video soon... |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 15:21:00 -
[312] - Quote
Hikaru Kuroda wrote:Amazing to read that, hope we get some screens/video soon...
TA is not allowed to show anything nothing to see here ,move on
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2601
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 15:40:00 -
[313] - Quote
It's amazing how people can interpret this:
Quote:The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
and turn it into:
Soulpirate wrote:By the time this hits live servers(as if it ever really will) Dust514 will be a distant memory.
So now that Team Avatar has done it`s thing, and the descision has been made to shelf this project for a few years, what is their new name? I mean if I read this right, you are basically saying TA has done the prototype work, we liked it but wont bother with it at this time, so TA is moving on to other things.
I can only assume English is not your native language. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
314
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 15:54:00 -
[314] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:
I think customised suits would be cool. Particularly if it reflects what the person is carrying as well. We didn't put much thought into what customisation might be though, concentrating on the gameplay.
I personally hope that you guys will take the great work that's been done with dropsuit customization in Dust and translate that to EVE. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 19:23:00 -
[315] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:It's amazing how people can interpret this: Quote:The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond. and turn it into: Soulpirate wrote:By the time this hits live servers(as if it ever really will) Dust514 will be a distant memory.
So now that Team Avatar has done it`s thing, and the descision has been made to shelf this project for a few years, what is their new name? I mean if I read this right, you are basically saying TA has done the prototype work, we liked it but wont bother with it at this time, so TA is moving on to other things.
I can only assume English is not your native language. Waiting until after the DUST release is under control does not mean "a few years".
were does it state after the DUST release?
What i make of it right now we are focusing on FIS until then WIS is remains dead
And with the FEW crybabies CCP is so afraid of ,WIS will never come
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
469
|
Posted - 2012.10.19 20:42:00 -
[316] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: were does it state after the DUST release?
What i make of it right now we are focusing on FIS until then WiS is remains dead
And with the FEW crybabies CCP is so afraid of ,WIS will never come
Quote:To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I'm looking at you).
It implies that Dust is taking too much time for them to fully commit to WiS. Therefore you could presume that when its not taking up too much development time (ie after release) that they would have more ability to commit to WiS. |
Soulpirate
Bedrock Industrial
216
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 02:26:00 -
[317] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: were does it state after the DUST release?
What i make of it right now we are focusing on FIS until then WiS is remains dead
And with the FEW crybabies CCP is so afraid of ,WIS will never come
Quote:To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I'm looking at you). It implies that Dust is taking too much time for them to fully commit to WiS. Therefore you could presume that when its not taking up too much development time (ie after release) that they would have more ability to commit to WiS. It is just an implication, and we're just speculating, but a man can dream right? Dream on brother. Really.
But the way I hear it, TA is done for now, they're breaking up the band. Dont forget alos they will have to deal with the "no WiS untill you balance Dust crowd" first, all the while dealing with the fix this, fix that, balance FiS crowd who, bercause of their passion for the game will ALWAYS be able to find something that needs doing first. |
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
259
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 04:31:00 -
[318] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:*snip* Arduemont wrote: It implies that Dust is taking too much time for them to fully commit to WiS. Therefore you could presume that when its not taking up too much development time (ie after release) that they would have more ability to commit to WiS. It is just an implication, and we're just speculating, but a man can dream right?
Dream on brother. Really. But the way I hear it, TA is done for now, they're breaking up the band. Dont forget alos they will have to deal with the "no WiS untill you balance Dust crowd" first, all the while dealing with the fix this, fix that, balance FiS crowd who, bercause of their passion for the game will ALWAYS be able to find something that needs doing first. Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with Soulpirate. CCP appear to be being deliberately vague about their future plans, while at the same time trying not to dash the 'hopes' of the pro-avatar player base. If it's going to be another :18 months: before any real development even gets to the planning stage, they just aught to man-up, and say so...
When the 'Executive Producer of EVE Online' (CCP Unifex) tells you in an avatar thread that -
CCP Unifex wrote:ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. Then it isn't unreasonable to translate that as "Never." - Seeing as how vocal the FiS crowd is... Taking away any of their 'resources' would hardly be met with cheers of delight, let alone tolerance... and when he follows it up with -
CCP Unifex wrote:The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond. Then it only takes a look, to see that the Retribution page has zero WiS content, and therefore, TA are working (presumably) on UI enhancements, etc. and as for the "and beyond" part, I think it's fair to say that TA is gone for the next year, at least.
If you can wait :6 months: 'til Fanfest, then fine, you can meet them in person and tell then everything you've already told them a hundred times on the forums, and they'll add it to their to-do list.
It's pretty clear though, that avatar-based gameplay is dead in the water for now. I wish it wasn't so, as I'm a huge fan of that particular vision, but I'm also a realist.
I'll be very surprised indeed, if any CCP Dev will come along and contradict this, with actual 'concrete' dialogue. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
711
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 05:58:00 -
[319] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: were does it state after the DUST release?
What i make of it right now we are focusing on FIS until then WiS is remains dead
And with the FEW crybabies CCP is so afraid of ,WIS will never come
Quote:To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I'm looking at you). It implies that Dust is taking too much time for them to fully commit to WiS. Therefore you could presume that when its not taking up too much development time (ie after release) that they would have more ability to commit to WiS. It is just an implication, and we're just speculating, but a man can dream right? Dream on brother. Really. But the way I hear it, TA is done for now, they're breaking up the band. Dont forget alos they will have to deal with the "no WiS untill you balance Dust crowd" first, all the while dealing with the fix this, fix that, balance FiS crowd who, bercause of their passion for the game will ALWAYS be able to find something that needs doing first.
don,t forget the ones ,who cry for change and then rage about it when it is actually changed nothing to see here ,move on
|
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
136
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 06:11:00 -
[320] - Quote
Color me skeptical and unbelieving, when you guys actually have something to show then write a thread, you gave us your dream for years now with nothing to show but a cell. "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here." |
|
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
472
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 09:34:00 -
[321] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:don,t forget the ones ,who cry for change and then rage about it when it is actually changed
Seeing this on the forums all the times makes me want to punch one. There are so many people crying that before CCP does any Incarna type content they want station games fixed, the bounty system fixed, faction warfare fixed, agression mechanics fixed, ships balanced, new modules, new ships, the UI fixed, lowsec made more popular etc.
And when CCP does those things the very same people whine that they didn't do it the way they wanted, or they want CCP to put it back to the way it was before. Makes me want to head-but them.
Edit: Also, even if they have completely stopped work on it (Please don't be true) they still have near enough 100 items of clothing unreleased. They said in the CSM minutes that they had roughly 100 or so items of clothing unreleased, and that they were going to roll out about 15%. They did, we got about 20 or so new items, but where are the rest of them? Presumably waiting for the new layout for the nex store. |
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
260
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 10:22:00 -
[322] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:don,t forget the ones ,who cry for change and then rage about it when it is actually changed *Snip* Edit: Also, even if they have completely stopped work on it (Please don't be true) they still have near enough 100 items of clothing unreleased. They said in the CSM minutes that they had roughly 100 or so items of clothing unreleased, and that they were going to roll out about 15%. They did, we got about 20 or so new items, but where are the rest of them? Presumably waiting for the new layout for the nex store. We just got re-colours of the old stuff, really... calling it new is, perhaps, being a little too generous... but whether the other stuff the CSM hinted at is for Nex or not, who knows.
I have a horrible feeling that 3/4 years from now they'll release it all in one go and call it 'new'... :( Call me a cynic ;)
Also, INB4 Barbie whiners, etc. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
712
|
Posted - 2012.10.20 23:28:00 -
[323] - Quote
Hiram Alexander wrote:Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:don,t forget the ones ,who cry for change and then rage about it when it is actually changed *Snip* Edit: Also, even if they have completely stopped work on it (Please don't be true) they still have near enough 100 items of clothing unreleased. They said in the CSM minutes that they had roughly 100 or so items of clothing unreleased, and that they were going to roll out about 15%. They did, we got about 20 or so new items, but where are the rest of them? Presumably waiting for the new layout for the nex store. We just got re-colours of the old stuff, really... calling it new is, perhaps, being a little too generous... but whether the other stuff the CSM hinted at is for Nex or not, who knows. I have a horrible feeling that 3/4 years from now they'll release it all in one go and call it 'new'... :( Call me a cynic ;) Also, INB4 Barbie whiners, etc.
there is little reason for the barbie whiners to respond in this thread,they got what they want. too bad,but it is true nothing to see here ,move on
|
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
494
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 01:39:00 -
[324] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: there is little reason for the barbie whiners to respond in this thread,they got what they want. too bad,but it is true
QFT |
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 12:48:00 -
[325] - Quote
Bumping because this is more important than whining. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
713
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 17:00:00 -
[326] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:Bumping because this is more important than whining.
No need to bump it ,CCP is not Discussing WIS anymore on the forums. You have to go to next fanfest , to have the right to discuss WIS with a dev nothing to see here ,move on
|
ctx2007
Wychwood and Wells Beer needs you
162
|
Posted - 2012.10.23 19:45:00 -
[327] - Quote
I know why the door is locked!
Space Zombies!! http://www.adobephotoshoptraining.org/photoshop-training-images/zombie-woman.jpg |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
713
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 14:47:00 -
[328] - Quote
Nylith Empyreal wrote:Color me skeptical and unbelieving, when you guys actually have something to show then write a thread, you gave us your dream for years now with nothing to show but a cell.
they can,t make a thread ,they committed them selfs to Fanfest,you have to buy a ticket. Forum discussion is for some reason over . nothing to see here ,move on
|
Alice Saki
14717
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 14:49:00 -
[329] - Quote
Fanfest HERE WE COME :D Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
142
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 20:45:00 -
[330] - Quote
It's looking like the next FanFest will be my first FanFest. Not just because of the avatar content, although that'll be nice too.
Hiram Alexander wrote:CCP Unifex wrote:ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. Then it isn't unreasonable to translate that as "Never." - Seeing as how vocal the FiS crowd is... Taking away any of their 'resources' would hardly be met with cheers of delight, let alone tolerance... and when he follows it up with - CCP Unifex wrote:The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond. Then it only takes a look, to see that the Retribution page has zero WiS content, and therefore, TA are working (presumably) on UI enhancements, etc. and as for the "and beyond" part, I think it's fair to say that TA is gone for the next year, at least.
Or, it means that they're hoping for DUST to take off and generate some extra income, at which point they can hire more people to expand the game.
It's a gamble, but it's a realistic one. CCP has quite a to-do list in terms of cleaning up the existing game, and it will take them a significantly long time--certainly more than :18months:--to do it all even with the current staff concentrating entirely on the clean up.
Obviously it's not what anyone who wants avatar gameplay wants to hear, but CCP has to take care of the game they're shipping right now, some parts of which are maddening, buggy and archaic, or they'll lose people now. From a long-term standpoint, it's good to see them acknowledging that they don't want to bite off more than they can chew.
In fact, I hope there's an 'EVE: The Next 10 Years' plan up at CCP. 18 months, and even :18months:, is a blink of an eye in software development. |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1090
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 23:48:00 -
[331] - Quote
Hiram Alexander wrote:CCP Unifex wrote:ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. Then it isn't unreasonable to translate that as "Never." - Seeing as how vocal the FiS crowd is... Taking away any of their 'resources' would hardly be met with cheers of delight, let alone tolerance... and when he follows it up with - CCP Unifex wrote:The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond. Then it only takes a look, to see that the Retribution page has zero WiS content, and therefore, TA are working (presumably) on UI enhancements, etc. and as for the "and beyond" part, I think it's fair to say that TA is gone for the next year, at least.
It also has nothing on the new targeting UI or cans being made by us, not NPCs. That just means any new Wis content will be small, not the main focus. But there may be more than zero. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
512
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 11:46:00 -
[332] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: It also has nothing on the new targeting UI or cans being made by us, not NPCs. That just means any new Wis content will be small, not the main focus. But there may be more than zero.
I think that's just optimism on your part. But I hope it's true.
Having said that, they did just make a few graphic fixes to the CQ clothing etc, so I guess there could be more in the works. But in all likelihood it probably wont be anything particularly impressive. |
Ghazu
234
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 13:56:00 -
[333] - Quote
Tali Ambraelle wrote:Bumping because this is more important than whining. Rather bump miners. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
713
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 16:50:00 -
[334] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Tali Ambraelle wrote:Bumping because this is more important than whining. Rather bump miners.
Bumping a useless thread is useless
i guess ,this is the most useless thread ever made by an ccp dev
nothing to see here ,move on
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Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.25 18:05:00 -
[335] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ghazu wrote:Tali Ambraelle wrote:Bumping because this is more important than whining. Rather bump miners. Bumping a useless thread is useless i guess ,this is the most useless thread ever made by an ccp dev
go away you salty old thing... i don't think you're feeling at all as young as your name says you like to think you are. I'm hopeful and you know what they say about hope (well, ok maybe i'm the only one who says it).. "In the darkest corner of despair lurks hope, waiting for a kill." |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
713
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 02:32:00 -
[336] - Quote
Mikaila Penshar wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ghazu wrote:Tali Ambraelle wrote:Bumping because this is more important than whining. Rather bump miners. Bumping a useless thread is useless i guess ,this is the most useless thread ever made by an ccp dev go away you salty old thing... i don't think you're feeling at all as young as your name says you like to think you are. I'm hopeful and you know what they say about hope (well, ok maybe i'm the only one who says it).. "In the darkest corner of despair lurks hope, waiting for a kill."
tell me then ,young one ,where does your hope come from then?
You must have found a thread here where Team Avatar is talking to the community. Face it ,Team Avatar stopped talking,because of management or there is nothing to show for after a year of so called prototyping.
personally ,i think there is nothing to show for. Sure they did some prototyping now and then ,but CCP,s panic mode made them do a lot of other stuff then avatars. And that is fine with me ,but at least they could tell. nothing to see here ,move on
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Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
533
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 08:16:00 -
[337] - Quote
^^ Sure, we may not have much reason to hope, but keeping people posting in this threads gives CCP reason to believe there are still players that want WiS. And by continuing to talk about it, and thus keep it nearer the top of the forums, we show that there is interest enough that CCP should be paying attention.
Just saying that its hopeless therefore we shouldn't post here, really isn't that helpful. Less helpful, in fact, than our not very helpful verbalization of wishful thinking. |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries Exiliar Syndicate
11
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 08:22:00 -
[338] - Quote
Sounds good to me, keep it going Lets manufacture implants! |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
714
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 09:03:00 -
[339] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:^^ Sure, we may not have much reason to hope, but keeping people posting in this threads gives CCP reason to believe there are still players that want WiS. And by continuing to talk about it, and thus keep it nearer the top of the forums, we show that there is interest enough that CCP should be paying attention.
Just saying that its hopeless therefore we shouldn't post here, really isn't that helpful. Less helpful, in fact, than our not very helpful verbalization of wishful thinking.
you can keep this thread up in the forums as much as you want. But as the Devs stated WIS is on ice and not to be talked but to a few people at fanfest,instead of the the ones who tried to give them some ideas here on the forums. Discussions with the devs and against some strange people with barbie addiction for almost a year and still CCP can,t come up with something. So tell me were i can get some hope for WIS I want that hope ,i lost it and i sure can,t find a good reason nothing to see here ,move on
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries Alliance not Found
73
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 09:50:00 -
[340] - Quote
Seems to me that EVA stuff would be better done using remotes or other disposable assets (DUST Bunnies)...
Why be a demi-god with the GDP of entire worlds at your command and risk your own skin clambering around a decaying structure which might fall apart at any moment... unless you fly Minmatar of course... |
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Tomiko Kawase
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
52
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 10:00:00 -
[341] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:Seems to me that EVA stuff would be better done using remotes or other disposable assets (DUST Bunnies)...
Why be a demi-god with the GDP of entire worlds at your command and risk your own skin clambering around a decaying structure which might fall apart at any moment... unless you fly Minmatar of course...
Because not all capsuleers are created equally. The Mittani probably wouldn't normally work through some salvage wrecks, but a brand new TEST pilot would search for a hidden gem. Fight us maybe? |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
459
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 11:45:00 -
[342] - Quote
Jacob Holland wrote:Seems to me that EVA stuff would be better done using remotes or other disposable assets (DUST Bunnies)...
Why be a demi-god with the GDP of entire worlds at your command and risk your own skin clambering around a decaying structure which might fall apart at any moment... unless you fly Minmatar of course...
Do you understand what pod pilots are? The only risk is isk They see me trolling, they hating... |
Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
71
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 14:26:00 -
[343] - Quote
Well being of the subscription base that didn't like the original concept of WiS, this is a far better version of it. I think most of us are not interested in 3D social gaming as WiS seemed to be more about (e.g. SIMS online clone), but actual gameplay for avatars fitting to EVE is a much much better concept.
Obviously iteration is more important, but I can support this direction of development once iteration has been fulfilled.
Although, I would hope that the current exploration system remain as it is, and that this is an addition while not a replacement. Such as I'd still like to hack the traditional radar sites from my ship, no less, and still at the current rate of spawn. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
714
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 14:43:00 -
[344] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:Well being of the subscription base that didn't like the original concept of WiS, this is a far better version of it. I think most of us are not interested in 3D social gaming as WiS seemed to be more about (e.g. SIMS online clone), but actual gameplay for avatars fitting to EVE is a much much better concept.
Obviously iteration is more important, but I can support this direction of development once iteration has been fulfilled.
Although, I would hope that the current exploration system remain as it is, and that this is an addition while not a replacement. Such as I'd still like to hack the traditional radar sites from my ship, no less, and still at the current rate of spawn.
The original concept of WIS was not that one room . When the original concept of WIS was shown ,called ambulation back then ,it was applauded by almost everybody . Nobody was was whining about gameplay and the only thing they showed us were bars and minigames. nothing to see here ,move on
|
Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
71
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 17:03:00 -
[345] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:Well being of the subscription base that didn't like the original concept of WiS, this is a far better version of it. I think most of us are not interested in 3D social gaming as WiS seemed to be more about (e.g. SIMS online clone), but actual gameplay for avatars fitting to EVE is a much much better concept.
Obviously iteration is more important, but I can support this direction of development once iteration has been fulfilled.
Although, I would hope that the current exploration system remain as it is, and that this is an addition while not a replacement. Such as I'd still like to hack the traditional radar sites from my ship, no less, and still at the current rate of spawn. The original concept of WIS was not that one room . When the original concept of WIS was shown ,called ambulation back then ,it was applauded by almost everybody . Nobody was was whining about gameplay and the only thing they showed us were bars and minigames. So WiS was warmly welcomed. Rewriting history there... not working. What's one room got to do with anything? No one said that. Whimsically adding that doesn't make the whole post as being true. Nice try.
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
715
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 17:13:00 -
[346] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:Well being of the subscription base that didn't like the original concept of WiS, this is a far better version of it. I think most of us are not interested in 3D social gaming as WiS seemed to be more about (e.g. SIMS online clone), but actual gameplay for avatars fitting to EVE is a much much better concept.
Obviously iteration is more important, but I can support this direction of development once iteration has been fulfilled.
Although, I would hope that the current exploration system remain as it is, and that this is an addition while not a replacement. Such as I'd still like to hack the traditional radar sites from my ship, no less, and still at the current rate of spawn. The original concept of WIS was not that one room . When the original concept of WIS was shown ,called ambulation back then ,it was applauded by almost everybody . Nobody was was whining about gameplay and the only thing they showed us were bars and minigames. So WiS was warmly welcomed. Rewriting history there... not working. What's one room got to do with anything? No one said that. Whimsically adding that doesn't make the whole post as being true. Nice try. i am trying nothing here
what i try to say is when is when ambulation was presented ,everybody wanted it and now all kinds of idiots are demanding gameplay to something non existing We got nothing and still people want gameplay in nothing
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
71
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 17:17:00 -
[347] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:Well being of the subscription base that didn't like the original concept of WiS, this is a far better version of it. I think most of us are not interested in 3D social gaming as WiS seemed to be more about (e.g. SIMS online clone), but actual gameplay for avatars fitting to EVE is a much much better concept.
Obviously iteration is more important, but I can support this direction of development once iteration has been fulfilled.
Although, I would hope that the current exploration system remain as it is, and that this is an addition while not a replacement. Such as I'd still like to hack the traditional radar sites from my ship, no less, and still at the current rate of spawn. The original concept of WIS was not that one room . When the original concept of WIS was shown ,called ambulation back then ,it was applauded by almost everybody . Nobody was was whining about gameplay and the only thing they showed us were bars and minigames. So WiS was warmly welcomed. Rewriting history there... not working. What's one room got to do with anything? No one said that. Whimsically adding that doesn't make the whole post as being true. Nice try. i am trying nothing here what i try to say is when is when ambulation was presented ,everybody wanted it and now all kinds of idiots are demanding gameplay to something non existing We got nothing and still people want gameplay in nothing uh-huh... |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
715
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 21:54:00 -
[348] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:Well being of the subscription base that didn't like the original concept of WiS, this is a far better version of it. I think most of us are not interested in 3D social gaming as WiS seemed to be more about (e.g. SIMS online clone), but actual gameplay for avatars fitting to EVE is a much much better concept.
Obviously iteration is more important, but I can support this direction of development once iteration has been fulfilled.
Although, I would hope that the current exploration system remain as it is, and that this is an addition while not a replacement. Such as I'd still like to hack the traditional radar sites from my ship, no less, and still at the current rate of spawn. The original concept of WIS was not that one room . When the original concept of WIS was shown ,called ambulation back then ,it was applauded by almost everybody . Nobody was was whining about gameplay and the only thing they showed us were bars and minigames. So WiS was warmly welcomed. Rewriting history there... not working. What's one room got to do with anything? No one said that. Whimsically adding that doesn't make the whole post as being true. Nice try. i am trying nothing here what i try to say is when is when ambulation was presented ,everybody wanted it and now all kinds of idiots are demanding gameplay to something non existing We got nothing and still people want gameplay in nothing uh-huh...
you can link one of the old threads ,but still there is nothing a big nothing for Team Avatar
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
185
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 00:47:00 -
[349] - Quote
I don't understand some of you people lamenting more in game content, its perplexing.
The argument "They could be working on something else" is bull crap. Like what? What YOU
want in the game? They for better or worse made a pandora's box with the WiS. A narrow mind is a focused mind. |
Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
71
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 01:18:00 -
[350] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: you can link one of the old threads ,but still there is nothing a big nothing for Team Avatar
You are the one trying to rewrite history there as if everyone wanted wis, and still a lot of people don't. This kind of posting of yours just makes me want to retract my original post of being in favor for doing this after iteration. You are not doing team avatar any service |
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Sadayiel
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
63
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 01:41:00 -
[351] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: you can link one of the old threads ,but still there is nothing a big nothing for Team Avatar
You are the one trying to rewrite history there as if everyone wanted wis, and still a lot of people don't. This kind of posting of yours just makes me want to retract my original post of being in favor for doing this after iteration. You are not doing team avatar any service Fortunately for them, some of us ignore bogus comments like such posts and make decisions for ourselves based on what they have to present when they are ready to. I'd like to see more, though I'm pretty tired of wis trollers. Only the WiS door threads have any real merit in conversations, at least they are funny.
He refered to the 2007-2008 original ambulation plans not the captain quarters.
Back then everyone (well almost everyone) was happy with that and then largely dissapointed about what WiS came to be.
Mostly about this original ambulation |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2672
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 03:36:00 -
[352] - Quote
Sadayiel wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: you can link one of the old threads ,but still there is nothing a big nothing for Team Avatar
You are the one trying to rewrite history there as if everyone wanted wis, and still a lot of people don't. This kind of posting of yours just makes me want to retract my original post of being in favor for doing this after iteration. You are not doing team avatar any service Fortunately for them, some of us ignore bogus comments like such posts and make decisions for ourselves based on what they have to present when they are ready to. I'd like to see more, though I'm pretty tired of wis trollers. Only the WiS door threads have any real merit in conversations, at least they are funny. He refered to the 2007-2008 original ambulation plans not the captain quarters. Back then everyone (well almost everyone) was happy with that and then largely dissapointed about what WiS came to be. Mostly about this original ambulation Thank you, you beat me to it.
The original proposals for WIS had little, if anything, to do with Captains Quarters.
I think we could have lived with what was proposed originally, with the expectation that it would grow into something like this prototype in time.
Now however, nothing less that a fully functional game in and of itself will be accepted by the community. The Incarna disappointment has served to make everyone super critical of the concept as a whole... and consequently their expectations are much higher than before. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1093
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 04:59:00 -
[353] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:Well being of the subscription base that didn't like the original concept of WiS, this is a far better version of it. I think most of us are not interested in 3D social gaming as WiS seemed to be more about (e.g. SIMS online clone), but actual gameplay for avatars fitting to EVE is a much much better concept.
Obviously iteration is more important, but I can support this direction of development once iteration has been fulfilled.
Although, I would hope that the current exploration system remain as it is, and that this is an addition while not a replacement. Such as I'd still like to hack the traditional radar sites from my ship, no less, and still at the current rate of spawn. The original concept of WIS was not that one room . When the original concept of WIS was shown ,called ambulation back then ,it was applauded by almost everybody . Nobody was was whining about gameplay and the only thing they showed us were bars and minigames. So WiS was warmly welcomed. Rewriting history there... not working. What's one room got to do with anything? No one said that. Whimsically adding that doesn't make the whole post as being true. Nice try. well... not really "nice" Actually alot of people were looking forward to it. There are always those who say "Why are you doing XXX when there is problem yyy, zzz, and qqq?" irrelevant of what CCP does. But that was months before the expansion. As it drew near there was more and more questions about what would be the game play. Questions that were not answered before Incarna was released, and we still have no idea what CCP was planning. Then it was released with little to do. And then "Greed is good" got leaked. In the run up to Incarna there was also worry and discussions of micro-transactions, and if eve would become "Pay to win". The Nex store came out with Incarna, with its fantastically expensive items. The "Greed is good" article make it seem like eve would become "Pay to win". Then an internal e-mail got leaked, with CCP's CEO saying the rolllout was fine and the player complaints were normal to should be ignored.
And at that point it all blew up. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
1582
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 05:12:00 -
[354] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:Well being of the subscription base that didn't like the original concept of WiS, this is a far better version of it. I think most of us are not interested in 3D social gaming as WiS seemed to be more about (e.g. SIMS online clone), but actual gameplay for avatars fitting to EVE is a much much better concept.
Obviously iteration is more important, but I can support this direction of development once iteration has been fulfilled.
Although, I would hope that the current exploration system remain as it is, and that this is an addition while not a replacement. Such as I'd still like to hack the traditional radar sites from my ship, no less, and still at the current rate of spawn. The original concept of WIS was not that one room . When the original concept of WIS was shown ,called ambulation back then ,it was applauded by almost everybody . Nobody was was whining about gameplay and the only thing they showed us were bars and minigames. So WiS was warmly welcomed. Rewriting history there... not working. What's one room got to do with anything? No one said that. Whimsically adding that doesn't make the whole post as being true. Nice try. well... not really "nice" Actually alot of people were looking forward to it. There are always those who say "Why are you doing XXX when there is problem yyy, zzz, and qqq?" irrelevant of what CCP does. But that was months before the expansion. As it drew near there was more and more questions about what would be the game play. Questions that were not answered before Incarna was released, and we still have no idea what CCP was planning. Then it was released with little to do. And then "Greed is good" got leaked. In the run up to Incarna there was also worry and discussions of micro-transactions, and if eve would become "Pay to win". The Nex store came out with Incarna, with its fantastically expensive items. The "Greed is good" article make it seem like eve would become "Pay to win". Then an internal e-mail got leaked, with CCP's CEO saying the rolllout was fine and the player complaints were normal to should be ignored. And at that point it all blew up.
"A lot of people"? The only ones I can think of are strange people who probably already are in second life, like Jade Constantine and obnoxious people like Issler whatsherface. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
717
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 06:18:00 -
[355] - Quote
Searched EvE-search for Ambulation
this is one of the first blogs about it ,dont see a lot Ambulation haters in this one
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/427556-0/page/1
edit:
The old blog is from 2006 and still .................. nothing to see here ,move on
|
Ghazu
234
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 06:47:00 -
[356] - Quote
Read the 2006 devblog on Game Design section again. |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
552
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 15:06:00 -
[357] - Quote
Quote:You are the one trying to rewrite history there as if everyone wanted wis, and still a lot of people don't. This kind of posting of yours just makes me want to retract my original post of being in favor for doing this after iteration. You are not doing team avatar any service
Your vastly outvoted here. Those "and still a lot of people don't" are the minority. If you don't believe me, there are polls on the forums showing it. Besides the fact that the people in favour of WiS vastly outnumber the trollers who don't want it. The recent "forget WiS" thread should be evidence enough that more people want it than don't.
The argument the people who don't want it use is that CCP haven't focused enough on FiS, when they have done nothing but that since Incarna. Since the ridiculous and terrible Incarna patch, CCP have been deciding what their game should be based on the views of a shrinking minority.
Edit: He isn't rewriting history, he's saying how it was. And he happens to be correct. I joined Eve as the "Ambulation" hype started, and everyone was talking about how awesome it was going to be. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1095
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 15:36:00 -
[358] - Quote
The current desire for WiS could all be settled with a real poll, a money poll. That is:
Part of the money from every subscription or every PLEX is used to improve the game. Bug fixes, iteration of existing features, adding new features.
Let every player say how they want their portion of their subscription ( whether it comes from PLEX or money) spent. CCP could publish a list of 10 to 20 broad categories, and let every player spread their money as they see fit. Anyone who does not vote has their portion put into the "CCP's choice" category.
Whatever money is voted into WiS is used to develop WiS, along with whatever money from the "CCP's choice" category CCP feels is appropriate. This way anyone who thinks WiS is a waste of resources can vote for something else. They be sure none of their money was used to develop WiS. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Johnny Bloomington
Justified Chaos
33
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 16:00:00 -
[359] - Quote
Ok now that the past has been covered (again..), people want WiS. I think CCP will revisit WiS after they have World of Darkness out and can pick parts off that for EvE WiS. They can't use Dust because its a different engine(edit: and good thing because it looks 4 years out-of-date). In the meantime, CCP is fixing broken game mechanics and FiS. This is a good idea. Its just a long waiting game. |
Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
77
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 16:15:00 -
[360] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:
"A lot of people"? The only ones I can think of are strange people who probably already are in second life, like Jade Constantine and obnoxious people like Issler whatsherface.
Wat? I was in sl last night for a bit in fact, before loading EVE and doing a hookbill rebuild and running some shake-down missions with it. Great game for us artist and scripter types that sl. I've had accounts there for many years, long before I subbed to EVE (EVE was a replacement for the best mmo ever, SWG, with bi-pod play that wis could never even aspire to). But I was here before incarna was released, and yes I remember clearly overwhelming rejection of even working on wis before cq was released. Having sl accounts and EVE, yep I had no desire for sl to be in EVE ...or really more accurately I think, for EVE to turn into the SIMS online.
But you know, I'm just going to retract my original post of supporting work on wis. I've had no interest in really talking about wis since the release of cq or even before, and I just don't want to be mistakenly connected to the long time wis advocates here that seem to be unable to even remember what they had for lunch yesterday.
I still recognize that the majority of players that play this game still don't want wis, they have no agenda to be here in forums 24/7 like wis supporters do trying to convince ccp to not listen to the majority of the playerbase. Most players in the game probably don't even know about this thread, it's stealthy as I didn't see it on my rss feed last night when I was looking for it there. Maybe a news spot for this in the launch client would be ideal? Probably not, eh? heh. But no, they don't support it, never did. Maybe CCP can sell it to them, best done after iteration as that isn't just some whimsical idea the majority of players had which certainly made the reception of wis all that more vile for most players. Flame away trolls, I'm done with this thread. |
|
Johnny Bloomington
Justified Chaos
33
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 16:25:00 -
[361] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:Alpheias wrote:
"A lot of people"? The only ones I can think of are strange people who probably already are in second life, like Jade Constantine and obnoxious people like Issler whatsherface.
Wat? I was in sl last night for a bit in fact, before loading EVE and doing a hookbill rebuild and running some shake-down missions with it. Great game for us artist and scripter types that sl. I've had accounts there for many years, long before I subbed to EVE (EVE was a replacement for the best mmo ever, SWG, with bi-pod play that wis could never even aspire to). But I was here before incarna was released, and yes I remember clearly overwhelming rejection of even working on wis before cq was released. Having sl accounts and EVE, yep I had no desire for sl to be in EVE ...or really more accurately I think, for EVE to turn into the SIMS online. But you know, I'm just going to retract my original post of supporting work on wis. I've had no interest in really talking about wis since the release of cq or even before, and I just don't want to be mistakenly connected to the long time wis advocates here that seem to be unable to even remember what they had for lunch yesterday. I still recognize that the majority of players that play this game still don't want wis, they have no agenda to be here in forums 24/7 like wis supporters do trying to convince ccp to not listen to the majority of the playerbase. Most players in the game probably don't even know about this thread, it's stealthy as I didn't see it on my rss feed last night when I was looking for it there. Maybe a news spot for this in the launch client would be ideal? Probably not, eh? heh. But no, they don't support it, never did. Maybe CCP can sell it to them, best done after iteration as that isn't just some whimsical idea the majority of players had which certainly made the reception of wis all that more vile for most players. Flame away trolls, I'm done with this thread.
Bye |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
111
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 15:07:00 -
[362] - Quote
Oh, hey, and update from Team Avatar that I would have totally missed if it wasn't for Mara Rinn bringing it to my attention. ...CCP Bayesian wrote:A benefit from the EVA game is that a lot of the technology that would need to be developed to properly deliver the EVA experience would be directly useful in providing social areas and tools in stations. Oh, allright. Carry on then.
CCP Unifex wrote:ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. But I guess this means you won't, as I can't see how developing this won't take away resources from FIS development. ... Oh, wait it probably means it will impact the other stuff I've been waiting for, like WoD.
Contraband Smuggling: Player Assisted Customs |
Johnny Bloomington
Justified Chaos
33
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 17:48:00 -
[363] - Quote
Che Biko wrote:Oh, wait it probably means it will impact the other stuff I've been waiting for, like WoD.
Whats WoD? |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
297
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 19:04:00 -
[364] - Quote
Omega Sunset wrote:I still recognize that the majority of players that play this game still don't want wis, they have no agenda to be here in forums 24/7 like wis supporters do trying to convince ccp to not listen to the majority of the playerbase.
I feel it would be really easy for CCP to gather information that is actually representative of the population. They could easily set up a poll and offer 100 random winners a free PLEX for completing it. Vast majority of players would take the survey. Then they'd know. Until then, none of us can really speak about what the majority want. We just don't know.
Second point is that while some people do want WiS, they are very aware of the price. The proverbial bang for your buck. For example, the Incarna expansion was an utter disaster in this regard. The bang (expansion) for the buck (nearly 2 years of almost no changes to the core game) was absolutely not worth it. I don't know anyone who thinks that it was.
So, when asked, even people who want WiS would likely vote against WiS if they're told in no uncertain terms that the cost of getting it operational will be little/no changes to the game for another year or two. It's just not worth it.
CCP can do something about it though. They can hire more people, and take a gamble. Develop the tech, implement it. Worst case scenario, it'll be wasted on EVE but can be re-used for World of Darkness. This way, everyone is happy. FiS players keep enjoying EVE, and its development continues. WiS players get their WiS. And WoD is one step closer to release. Though it'll cost them to get this done, and breaking in new people is never quick.
In a way, this is why so many folks are rather disgusted with Dust 514. I don't see a future for it. And yet, if CCP pooled those resources into WiS, we'd likely have it already. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1103
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 20:55:00 -
[365] - Quote
Johnny Bloomington wrote:Che Biko wrote:Oh, wait it probably means it will impact the other stuff I've been waiting for, like WoD. Whats WoD? Assuming thats not a troll, World of Darkness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Y3TYtyt8E&feature=fvsr http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
302
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 23:04:00 -
[366] - Quote
Vaporware... :P
Seriously though, since it was announced in 2006 and supposedly started development in 2009, we haven't seen any gameplay footage at all. Not even a tiny little smidgeon. Much less a release date... :( |
Heian Galanodel
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 00:19:00 -
[367] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Vaporware... :P
Seriously though, since it was announced in 2006 and supposedly started development in 2009, we haven't seen any gameplay footage at all. Not even a tiny little smidgeon. Much less a release date... :(
That would definitely make Chris and a bunch of other hard working developer's sad. Vaporware? Most likely not.
I'll show you where it's dark, but have no fear. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
722
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 03:12:00 -
[368] - Quote
Heian Galanodel wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Vaporware... :P
Seriously though, since it was announced in 2006 and supposedly started development in 2009, we haven't seen any gameplay footage at all. Not even a tiny little smidgeon. Much less a release date... :(
That would definitely make Chris and a bunch of other hard working developer's sad. Vaporware? Most likely not.
So the Devs from WOD are beyond prototyping ? nothing to see here ,move on
|
Oberine Noriepa
1026
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 03:42:00 -
[369] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Vaporware... :P Seriously though, since it was announced in 2006 and supposedly started development in 2009, we haven't seen any gameplay footage at all. Not even a tiny little smidgeon. Much less a release date... :( In-engine footage was shown earlier this year at Fanfest. (Video)
Given how good this looks, just imagine what EVE's avatar gameplay could look like. |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
574
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 08:10:00 -
[370] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:CCP can do something about it though. They can hire more people, and take a gamble. Develop the tech, implement it. Worst case scenario, it'll be wasted on EVE but can be re-used for World of Darkness. This way, everyone is happy. FiS players keep enjoying EVE, and its development continues. WiS players get their WiS. And WoD is one step closer to release. Though it'll cost them to get this done, and breaking in new people is never quick.
I think it's more likely they'll just invent the tech for WoD and then use it in Eve, rather than the other way around. I seem to remember hearing that some of the WoD team have been used to help out with Eve on a few occasions, which is a better idea than hiring more people in total. You shouldn't really gamble with people's jobs.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1104
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 13:39:00 -
[371] - Quote
My guess it it was
Team A, you make avatars work Team E, you make stuff that uses the avatars in Eve Team W, you make stuff that uses avatars in WoD http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
725
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 17:45:00 -
[372] - Quote
Oberine Noriepa wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Vaporware... :P Seriously though, since it was announced in 2006 and supposedly started development in 2009, we haven't seen any gameplay footage at all. Not even a tiny little smidgeon. Much less a release date... :( In-engine footage was shown earlier this year at Fanfest. ( Video) Keep in mind that this footage was captured using assets created in 2010. CCP also released this video within the same year: Carbon Character TechnologyGiven how good this looks, just imagine what EVE's avatar gameplay could look like. I really like the character animation in the second video. It would be great if EVE animated that nicely. Cloth physics, inverse kinematics, and all of that good stuff.
Sounds great ,but to keep everybody happy ,Team Avatar has to prototype for another year or two ,three ,four nothing to see here ,move on
|
Davon Mandra'thin
Solar Horizon Directive Blue Nation
112
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 18:03:00 -
[373] - Quote
I wish they would just ignore the whiners and move more employees over the focus on WiS. |
Johnny Bloomington
Justified Chaos
33
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 18:28:00 -
[374] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:I wish they would just ignore the whiners and move more employees over the focus on WiS. I think they will after old core game mechanics get fixed first. I also want new station hangers so I can see the scale of these monsters. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1824
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 18:34:00 -
[375] - Quote
It's just a matter of time. WiS will get completed. It's part of CCP's vision for the game. Frankly I keep seeing people say "the majority want WiS" or "the majority don't want WiS". Frankly you don't know either way what the majority want. Until CCP pulls a mass vote on such an issue to get a feel for it...we won't know. I suspect, however, that the majority of people playing EVE don't give two ***** whether or not CCP works on WiS and just want to continue playing EVE the way they always have. I say this because the vast majority of EVE players don't care enough to even read these forums. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
728
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 18:35:00 -
[376] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:I wish they would just ignore the whiners and move more employees over the focus on WiS.
The whiners had a good reason a more then a year ago. But even now with almost all the resources the FIS part of this game has, they keep on whining Every thing CCP does to please this type of crowd is met with a lot of negative response ,from the same crowd. There is nothing wrong with a bit more balancing of the resources ,but CCP is so afraid of the few
Why focusing all your men power to something ,that will not satisfy somebody in the end
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Johnny Bloomington
Justified Chaos
33
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 18:51:00 -
[377] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Davon Mandra'thin wrote:I wish they would just ignore the whiners and move more employees over the focus on WiS. The whiners had a good reason a more then a year ago. But even now with almost all the resources the FIS part of this game has, they keep on whining Every thing CCP does to please this type of crowd is met with a lot of negative response ,from the same crowd. There is nothing wrong with a bit more balancing of the resources ,but CCP is so afraid of the few Why focusing all your men power to something ,that will not satisfy somebody in the end
Just like some women with their noses in the air. You can give them a 10" kock and they still wouldn't be happy. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
168
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 21:10:00 -
[378] - Quote
The possibilities.
Goosebumps..... I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
728
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 21:47:00 -
[379] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:The possibilities.
Goosebumps.....
don,t think about those possibilities to much.
having goosebumps for the next 5 year is not healthy
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
169
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 22:48:00 -
[380] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:The possibilities.
Goosebumps..... don,t think about those possibilities to much. having goosebumps for the next 5 year is not healthy
If it means putting the train wreck that was Incarna finaly to bed, then I am happy to wait.
Serously:
CCP Bayesian wrote: Extra-Vehicular Activity, Wrecks and Exploration
...nearly collasped at this point, but just managed to hold it together long enough to read CCP Unifex.
So we won't get this yet, but CCP Unifex has my support: do this and do it right. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
|
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
127
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 22:49:00 -
[381] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Omega Sunset wrote:I still recognize that the majority of players that play this game still don't want wis, they have no agenda to be here in forums 24/7 like wis supporters do trying to convince ccp to not listen to the majority of the playerbase. I feel it would be really easy for CCP to gather information that is actually representative of the population. They could easily set up a poll and offer 100 random winners a free PLEX for completing it. Vast majority of players would take the survey. Then they'd know. Until then, none of us can really speak about what the majority want. We just don't know. Second point is that while some people do want WiS, they are very aware of the price. The proverbial bang for your buck. For example, the Incarna expansion was an utter disaster in this regard. The bang (expansion) for the buck (nearly 2 years of almost no changes to the core game) was absolutely not worth it. I don't know anyone who thinks that it was. So, when asked, even people who want WiS would likely vote against WiS if they're told in no uncertain terms that the cost of getting it operational will be little/no changes to the game for another year or two. It's just not worth it. CCP can do something about it though. They can hire more people, and take a gamble. Develop the tech, implement it. Worst case scenario, it'll be wasted on EVE but can be re-used for World of Darkness. This way, everyone is happy. FiS players keep enjoying EVE, and its development continues. WiS players get their WiS. And WoD is one step closer to release. Though it'll cost them to get this done, and breaking in new people is never quick. In a way, this is why so many folks are rather disgusted with Dust 514. I don't see a future for it. And yet, if CCP pooled those resources into WiS, we'd likely have it already.
I agree witth the ending point on your post. I guess I would be placed in the pool with the WiS folks, since my time in EVE and almost immeadiately in I could see the vast world that EVE online potentially provided. Their core foundation of FiS and EVE in general are quite intuitive. It's depth provides almost something new to learn everytime you play.
Little tweaks and fine tunning can grant players a wide variety of play types and encounters. The work I have seen them do since being a player has also shown me their dedication to maintaining a very, very authentic feel to their game. Something no other game really encompasses as a whole quite possibly.
Now here is my thing, when the announcement of WiS and Dust 514 really started picking up that year or so ago I was also one that felt that Dust 514 would not have the success it could potentially have. Without WiS being something that was already a stable gameplay within EVE beforehand.
Dust is a great idea and as a Playstation 3 owner I'll more than likely download and give it ago when it is finally complete. The beta was okay when I tried it a while ago, but honestly there wasn't much that really grabbed me about the experience back then. I do feel that if those resources that were focused on Dust were actually put towards WiS that the players would've recieved a much fuller and enjoyable experience while CCP itself would've provided a much more in depth and meaningful Avatar gameplay.
They had to shift focus from EVE (somewhat) to get an understanding of the PS3 tech and furthermore to build their game. When I feel if they had decided to focus instead on EVE WiS and EVE FiS in general that they would've covered alot more ground in both areas. I'm not saying that their time was wasted, not at all. But when I think of what could've and maybe "should've" been I can't help but think there were some misteps in the decisions they made concerning WiS, FiS and their final choice of moving forward with Dust 514. |
Spy 21
Lonetrek Exploration and Salvage
177
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 23:14:00 -
[382] - Quote
This makes me .....
HAPPY
S The thread goes on-line June 9th, 2012. Human intelligence is removed from further posts. The thread begins to learn at a geometric rate. The thread becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, June 10th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.-á |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
316
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 23:58:00 -
[383] - Quote
Oberine Noriepa wrote:In-engine footage was shown earlier this year at Fanfest. ( Video) Keep in mind that this footage was captured using assets created in 2010.
Not to nitpick, but that video shown at FanFest isn't a gameplay video. It's a fly-through of the small portion of the map. There's no avatar, animations, combat, travel, etc., etc., shown there. Meaning no actual gameplay. To date, as far as I know, there's been zero gameplay footage of WoS. Considering how many years it's been in development, that is not very encouraging is all I'm saying.
Quote:Given how good this looks
It looks fairly good, yes. Though honestly I got a huge Mafia II flashback from it, and that game came out more than 2 years ago. Like I said, hard to judge anything when all that's shown is a dark street with static geometry.
|
Oberine Noriepa
1026
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 00:02:00 -
[384] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Davon Mandra'thin wrote:I wish they would just ignore the whiners and move more employees over the focus on WiS. The whiners had a good reason a more then a year ago. But even now with almost all the resources the FIS part of this game has, they keep on whining Every thing CCP does to please this type of crowd is met with a lot of negative response ,from the same crowd. There is nothing wrong with a bit more balancing of the resources ,but CCP is so afraid of the few Why focusing all your men power to something ,that will not satisfy somebody in the end Speaking of whining, I was wondering if I could interest you in some cheese? Contrary to what you might believe, there's a lot that needs to be brought up-to-date on the spaceship (i.e. existent) part of the game. Let CCP stabilize EVE and get Dust 514 running beyond test builds. Then we'll see what happens. You should take some solace in the fact that EVE is finally getting the support it needs to take the steps in getting to the development of avatar-based gameplay. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
585
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 05:59:00 -
[385] - Quote
Oberine Noriepa wrote: Speaking of whining, I was wondering if I could interest you in some cheese? Contrary to what you might believe, there's a lot that needs to be brought up-to-date on the spaceship (i.e. existent) part of the game. Let CCP stabilize EVE and get Dust 514 running beyond test builds. Then we'll see what happens. You should take some solace in the fact that EVE is finally getting the support it needs to take the steps in getting to the development of avatar-based gameplay.
There may still be a lot of game-play concerns left, but there are only a few I actually care about, and as these issues get fewer and fewer people are going to want WiS more and more. I, for one, just want them to finish the T1 balancing and then fix POSes and I'm happy, dont need any more changes as far as I'm concerned. And I would happily see some WiS before either of those things.
The last three expansions (including the one coming out now) have been fantastic, at tweaking what we already have, but there will always be stuff that needs fixing or iterating on. They shouldn't be spending all their resources on them. We really do need something new, and we don't need any new FiS stuff, that part of the game is fantastic as it is.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ghazu
251
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 06:48:00 -
[386] - Quote
You do know that TA is prototyping gameplay right? Based on the lack of devblogs I assume they still need a great deal of time to figure it out, so wis is most likely years away. The alternative would be TA to just banging out a useless zynga-esque dogshite social game that got got ripped off from EA. But apparently dudes are fine with that. http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
118
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 08:24:00 -
[387] - Quote
Heian Galanodel wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Vaporware... :P
Seriously though, since it was announced in 2006 and supposedly started development in 2009, we haven't seen any gameplay footage at all. Not even a tiny little smidgeon. Much less a release date... :(
That would definitely make Chris and a bunch of other hard working developer's sad. Vaporware? Most likely not.
Truth hurts. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 10:24:00 -
[388] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:The alternative would be TA to just banging out a useless zynga-esque dogshite social game that got got ripped off from EA. But apparently dudes are fine with that. That alone would be pretty meh. I'd rather have something similar to Source Film Maker instead. It would be sad if noone will take an advantage of everything what's good about WiS. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
585
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 14:42:00 -
[389] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:You do know that TA is prototyping gameplay right? Based on the lack of devblogs I assume they still need a great deal of time to figure it out, so wis is most likely years away. The alternative would be TA to just banging out a useless zynga-esque dogshite social game that got got ripped off from EA. But apparently dudes are fine with that.
Except they aren't prototyping anymore. Team Avatar was moved to the UI project. So no development is being done at all. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
731
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 18:18:00 -
[390] - Quote
Oberine Noriepa wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Davon Mandra'thin wrote:I wish they would just ignore the whiners and move more employees over the focus on WiS. The whiners had a good reason a more then a year ago. But even now with almost all the resources the FIS part of this game has, they keep on whining Every thing CCP does to please this type of crowd is met with a lot of negative response ,from the same crowd. There is nothing wrong with a bit more balancing of the resources ,but CCP is so afraid of the few Why focusing all your men power to something ,that will not satisfy somebody in the end Speaking of whining, I was wondering if I could interest you in some cheese? Contrary to what you might believe, there's a lot that needs to be brought up-to-date on the spaceship (i.e. existent) part of the game. Let CCP stabilize EVE and get Dust 514 running beyond test builds. Then we'll see what happens. You should take some solace in the fact that EVE is finally getting the support it needs to take the steps in getting to the development of avatar-based gameplay.
Dust = who cares .not me anyway But it is coming and it is fine with me .
That some stuff in Flying part needs attention ,fine with me,but don,t cry afterwards ,when that attention is given
and about existing stuff , we have a nice existing closed door in our 1 by 1 room ,that should be opened long ago nothing to see here ,move on
|
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
731
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 22:52:00 -
[391] - Quote
at least CCP does what it does best.
a lot of promise ,but don,t deliver
As it turns out ,Ambulation is nothing more then a marketing trick.
i love this game,but this is nothing more then a tool to keep people to this game
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Ghazu
251
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 04:39:00 -
[392] - Quote
Well the natural "deadline" for a devblog (what was demoed to the CSM) would be fanfest, or until Dust's release *and integration with eve is somewhat up and running. Good thing in the meantime there is fis. http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
731
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 07:15:00 -
[393] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Well the natural "deadline" for a devblog (what was demoed to the CSM) would be fanfest, or until Dust's release *and integration with eve is somewhat up and running. Good thing in the meantime there is fis.
We not here bc we only want WIS ,it is always good to have FIS nothing to see here ,move on
|
Galaxy Pig
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 08:49:00 -
[394] - Quote
I'd love for CQ to have a CRU (clone re-animation unit) where you can see your blank clone. |
Erad Stomper
Noble Solutions Ouate de Phoque
9
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 11:54:00 -
[395] - Quote
First we had to learn a bunch of learning skill, then you get dust514 out only on ps3, then you talk about extra vehicular activity and you say you can't do it right now.
so in the end we are still waiting to play dust514 on pc and will probably wait for 10 years or more, so the extra vehicular activity cant be made under 50 or 80 years, most of us will be dead before it happen.
Is it only me who tink eve is not evolving at all? I dont see a lot of different things since i started playin, some new ship and modules but nothing awesome, only minor change.
After 6 years of playin the same game over and over i'm ready for change, do it now before all of us get bored to death and choose another game.
If another company get a game like eve out i would probably change if it's better because i lost faith in the eve team for change, i can't see anything more in the future, only minor change.
my 2-ó |
Radius Prime
EVE University Ivy League
26
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 12:18:00 -
[396] - Quote
Please put your efforts in different stuff. Implants cost enough already. The station environment was a way better idea then this.
A real planet builder expansion like dust with planet based toons would be so much more fun. Especially if it would interact with eve through trade and production. Get haulers working between planets , mining group work for planet toons that need resources. Well populated planets pay taxes to alliance that owns sov in the region. Will make regions without resources worth owning. Etc...
Make Dust for pc as well and let us enter sites and fps with our toons that way. Much cooler..
Keep the main eve game about flying and warring with spaceships. If I own Dust as well I can enter dust world with my toon and fps and explore. Work on third game which will introduce active planets...
This mission should keep ccp busy for the next 3 to 5 years and will provide further income.
Cheers,
Radius Prime, Wannabe Chairman of CCP Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first. |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
849
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 12:43:00 -
[397] - Quote
Erad Stomper wrote:First we had to learn a bunch of learning skill, then you get dust514 out only on ps3, then you talk about extra vehicular activity and you say you can't do it right now.
so in the end we are still waiting to play dust514 on pc and will probably wait for 10 years or more, so the extra vehicular activity cant be made under 50 or 80 years, most of us will be dead before it happen.
Is it only me who tink eve is not evolving at all? I dont see a lot of different things since i started playin, some new ship and modules but nothing awesome, only minor change.
After 6 years of playin the same game over and over i'm ready for change, do it now before all of us get bored to death and choose another game.
If another company get a game like eve out i would probably change if it's better because i lost faith in the eve team for change, i can't see anything more in the future, only minor change.
my 2-ó
The other game is on its way. Four years for me, most of that time with three accounts. There's no doubt CCP need to branch our characters out into other areas of the EVE universe to stay relevant and I'm sure Dust and WiS are only part of the story. I'm delighted they now have a good plan for WiS after they've fixed the core code in the flagship EVE.
Personally, I'd be happy to waste time building orbital infrastructure, asteroid bases etc. for people to set up shop in. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
731
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 15:36:00 -
[398] - Quote
Solhild wrote:Erad Stomper wrote:First we had to learn a bunch of learning skill, then you get dust514 out only on ps3, then you talk about extra vehicular activity and you say you can't do it right now.
so in the end we are still waiting to play dust514 on pc and will probably wait for 10 years or more, so the extra vehicular activity cant be made under 50 or 80 years, most of us will be dead before it happen.
Is it only me who tink eve is not evolving at all? I dont see a lot of different things since i started playin, some new ship and modules but nothing awesome, only minor change.
After 6 years of playin the same game over and over i'm ready for change, do it now before all of us get bored to death and choose another game.
If another company get a game like eve out i would probably change if it's better because i lost faith in the eve team for change, i can't see anything more in the future, only minor change.
my 2-ó The other game is on its way. Four years for me, most of that time with three accounts. There's no doubt CCP need to branch our characters out into other areas of the EVE universe to stay relevant and I'm sure Dust and WiS are only part of the story. I'm delighted they now have a good plan for WiS after they've fixed the core code in the flagship EVE. Personally, I'd be happy to waste time building orbital infrastructure, asteroid bases etc. for people to set up shop in.
Team Avatar is silent until their next fanfest ,missed chance
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
200
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 17:08:00 -
[399] - Quote
And once again, that portion of EVE's community that bothers with these forums displays its general lack of enthusiasm for new ideas, a pessimistic fatal streak, a total lack of vision, a cynical conservative bent and a total lack of any understanding about how to go about running a games studio which presently has only one profitable title to its name.
Business as usual then. I really don't know why I bother coming here. This exact same thing happened with Incarna - they had what I personally thought was a great idea to add whole new player-driven sections of the economy to the game, and a noisy faction of luddites in the community pissed all over it because it didn't fit their narrow vision of what EVE should be. I'm still angry about that.
And now people have the audacity to complain that we don't have proper WiS or any WoD game footage or whatever, when it's OUR. ZARKING. FAULT. Us! the Community! We're the ones who went on a noisy rampage over those very same things when they were first proposed, forcing CCP to back off and focus on the flying and spaceships instead of moving the game in that direction and now some of us are griping about not having them?
GFDI if you wanted them that badly, you should have spoken up and encouraged CCP to keep making them when they were first proposed, rather than sit back and let the uninspired armchair games designers decide that they wanted to fly the ship for us.
/rant An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
850
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 18:10:00 -
[400] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:And once again, that portion of EVE's community that bothers with these forums displays its general lack of enthusiasm for new ideas, a pessimistic fatal streak, a total lack of vision, a cynical conservative bent and a total lack of any understanding about how to go about running a games studio which presently has only one profitable title to its name.
Business as usual then. I really don't know why I bother coming here. This exact same thing happened with Incarna - they had what I personally thought was a great idea to add whole new player-driven sections of the economy to the game, and a noisy faction of luddites in the community pissed all over it because it didn't fit their narrow vision of what EVE should be. I'm still angry about that.
And now people have the audacity to complain that we don't have proper WiS or any WoD game footage or whatever, when it's OUR. ZARKING. FAULT. Us! the Community! We're the ones who went on a noisy rampage over those very same things when they were first proposed, forcing CCP to back off and focus on the flying and spaceships instead of moving the game in that direction and now some of us are griping about not having them?
GFDI if you wanted them that badly, you should have spoken up and encouraged CCP to keep making them when they were first proposed, rather than sit back and let the uninspired armchair games designers decide that they wanted to fly the ship for us.
/rant
What if we actually did? |
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
731
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 03:22:00 -
[401] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:And once again, that portion of EVE's community that bothers with these forums displays its general lack of enthusiasm for new ideas, a pessimistic fatal streak, a total lack of vision, a cynical conservative bent and a total lack of any understanding about how to go about running a games studio which presently has only one profitable title to its name.
Business as usual then. I really don't know why I bother coming here. This exact same thing happened with Incarna - they had what I personally thought was a great idea to add whole new player-driven sections of the economy to the game, and a noisy faction of luddites in the community pissed all over it because it didn't fit their narrow vision of what EVE should be. I'm still angry about that.
And now people have the audacity to complain that we don't have proper WiS or any WoD game footage or whatever, when it's OUR. ZARKING. FAULT. Us! the Community! We're the ones who went on a noisy rampage over those very same things when they were first proposed, forcing CCP to back off and focus on the flying and spaceships instead of moving the game in that direction and now some of us are griping about not having them?
GFDI if you wanted them that badly, you should have spoken up and encouraged CCP to keep making them when they were first proposed, rather than sit back and let the uninspired armchair games designers decide that they wanted to fly the ship for us.
/rant
well maybe the people who complain now ,didn,t shoot statues 1,5 year ago nothing to see here ,move on
|
Ghazu
265
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 03:51:00 -
[402] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:And once again, that portion of EVE's community that bothers with these forums displays its general lack of enthusiasm for new ideas, a pessimistic fatal streak, a total lack of vision, a cynical conservative bent and a total lack of any understanding about how to go about running a games studio which presently has only one profitable title to its name.
Business as usual then. I really don't know why I bother coming here. This exact same thing happened with Incarna - they had what I personally thought was a great idea to add whole new player-driven sections of the economy to the game, and a noisy faction of luddites in the community pissed all over it because it didn't fit their narrow vision of what EVE should be. I'm still angry about that.
And now people have the audacity to complain that we don't have proper WiS or any WoD game footage or whatever, when it's OUR. ZARKING. FAULT. Us! the Community! We're the ones who went on a noisy rampage over those very same things when they were first proposed, forcing CCP to back off and focus on the flying and spaceships instead of moving the game in that direction and now some of us are griping about not having them?
GFDI if you wanted them that badly, you should have spoken up and encouraged CCP to keep making them when they were first proposed, rather than sit back and let the uninspired armchair games designers decide that they wanted to fly the ship for us.
/rant Nope there was no clear language in any devblog on what incarna 1.0 was to be, and everybody was in support of it without knowing what it was exactly, and look how that turned out. The voices in support of wis were nothing but unacceptable crap social minigames, they should just be ignored.
There is still no devblog with tangible details, the new deadline for that would be fanfest. If it looks stupid or stinks of zynga, we will resume the rampage.
http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
Charlotte Elizabeth
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 04:46:00 -
[403] - Quote
I think this is a fantastic idea.
I've always been impressed with the production value of the avatar side of this game, it's just a shame that it currently has little gameplay value.
Yet it can offer a completely new layer of depth to this great game, beyond a social-tool gimmick.
Plus space-horror is kick ass.
Check this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9XrsWUO9sw
|
Talus Veran
Valis Inc
24
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 05:22:00 -
[404] - Quote
I really Like where this Idea is going, That seems like a great future goal.
While I think this is a Noble goal, and obviously would take many Resources to accomplish, it is not what we would require now.
In Playstation Home this Summer ther was a Bar with a boardgame in Eve Style, promoting the DUST514 beta. If you have some open station Visuals for a common area, Open the CQ Doors for us to mingle a bit.
Then bit by bit work on adding content, Player Stores. Visual Representation of the modules we are buying from an NPC dealer. Let the Roleplayers get out of their quarters and do it if they want to. This adds Immersion for those who want it.
As long as it's not NESSECARY for pilots to go do things required for FIS.
P.S. Integration to DUST514 for Us to build Dust Merc Equipment. Allow them to come Buy it from US WiS We will take their ISK and AURUM too! "Zee Goggles, Zey Do Nothing!"
Message me on Twitter-á-á @talus_veran I follow -á #eveonline-á &-á #tweetfleet |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
165
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 06:06:00 -
[405] - Quote
The more I hear about all the ideas being tossed around, the happier I get.
Then I cry myself to sleep because I know when I wake up, these things still won't be in the game.
Still, the idea that something is coming eventually is rather comforting...yet, sadly, it does not stop the tears. |
Vex Killswitch
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 07:09:00 -
[406] - Quote
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Keep doing, what you're doing CCP
How about instead of flooding a Dev thread with hate, someone relevant make a thread that LISTS things that need/should be fixed. srs make a thread, have everyone post what should be fixed etc, than thread author can make a list of all those great fixes/ideas and CCP can look at it.
srs if i was a dev and i had to sort through 21 pages of bad mouthing and motor boating i'd probably punch you all in the face at fanfest. |
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
266
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 07:20:00 -
[407] - Quote
Vex Killswitch wrote:srs if i was a dev and i had to sort through 21 pages of bad mouthing and motor boating i'd probably punch you all in the face at fanfest. Internet tough guy detected... Seriously, get a grip of yourself. What on earth made you think that kind of language and attitude was appropriate on a gaming forum? |
Vex Killswitch
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 07:56:00 -
[408] - Quote
Hiram Alexander wrote: Internet tough guy detected... Seriously, get a grip of yourself. What on earth made you think that kind of language and attitude was appropriate on a gaming forum?
Nope, no internet tough guy stuff bud, just voicing my opinion after shuffling through 21pages of criticism. my language was appropriate, my attitude was much like the collective, difference was it was directed towards them. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
599
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 12:08:00 -
[409] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:The more I hear about all the ideas being tossed around, the happier I get.
Then I cry myself to sleep because I know when I wake up, these things still won't be in the game.
Still, the idea that something is coming eventually is rather comforting...yet, sadly, it does not stop the tears.
A sad realization for us all. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
112
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 15:41:00 -
[410] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Nope there was no clear language in any devblog on what incarna 1.0 was to be, and everybody was in support of it without knowing what it was exactly I think it was pretty clear what we would get with Incarna 1.0. Anyone mildly interested could see it on the feature page, and would have understood from devblogs that Incarna would be released in stages with the CQ being the first stage. If people thought that they would get the fullblown multiplayer enviroments in the initial release, they just didn't pay enough attention.
Contraband Smuggling: Player Assisted Customs |
|
Ghazu
265
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 17:39:00 -
[411] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote:The more I hear about all the ideas being tossed around, the happier I get.
Then I cry myself to sleep because I know when I wake up, these things still won't be in the game.
Still, the idea that something is coming eventually is rather comforting...yet, sadly, it does not stop the tears. A sad realization for us all. Hope that was roleplaying. http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
731
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 17:47:00 -
[412] - Quote
Che Biko wrote:Ghazu wrote:Nope there was no clear language in any devblog on what incarna 1.0 was to be, and everybody was in support of it without knowing what it was exactly I think it was pretty clear what we would get with Incarna 1.0. Anyone mildly interested could see it on the feature page, and would have understood from devblogs that Incarna would be released in stages with the CQ being the first stage. If people thought that they would get the fullblown multiplayer enviroments in the initial release, they just didn't pay enough attention.
There was a lot of rage , all devblogs were instantly forgotten after Nexfail ,greed is good and certain mails. And all other reasons people could come up with .
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
182
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 18:22:00 -
[413] - Quote
I was thinking there are stop working on this wis project the still working on it ? ps no hating just want to now because iam a big fan of this project. |
Loed Kane
Segmentum Solar Intrepid Crossing
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 20:02:00 -
[414] - Quote
i can't wait for this! AHHH!!!!!!!! but yes i can as long as it takes ccp :) |
Shamus O'Reilly
Gungnirs' Point I Know Right
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 20:31:00 -
[415] - Quote
All i can think of right now is being actually like a real pirate where you can disable ships and board them.
Can anyone say? "RAIDING PARTY!!!" |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
731
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 20:40:00 -
[416] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:I was thinking there are stop working on this wis project the still working on it ? ps no hating just want to now because iam a big fan of this project.
They stopped ,thats all nothing to see here ,move on
|
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
333
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 23:10:00 -
[417] - Quote
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:All i can think of right now is being actually like a real pirate where you can disable ships and board them. Can anyone say? "RAIDING PARTY!!!"
It's pretty fun. I got to play this, actually. In Pirates of the Burning Sea MMO. Back in January 2008. Yeah...cutting edge stuff...
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
731
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 00:45:00 -
[418] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Shamus O'Reilly wrote:All i can think of right now is being actually like a real pirate where you can disable ships and board them. Can anyone say? "RAIDING PARTY!!!" It's pretty fun. I got to play this, actually. In Pirates of the Burning Sea MMO. Back in January 2008. Yeah...cutting edge stuff... Stitcher wrote:Business as usual then. I really don't know why I bother coming here. This exact same thing happened with Incarna - they had what I personally thought was a great idea to add whole new player-driven sections of the economy to the game, and a noisy faction of luddites in the community pissed all over it because it didn't fit their narrow vision of what EVE should be. I'm still angry about that. That's a very shortsighted way of looking at it. Everything has a price. Incarna had a price too, as in how long it took to make, and how neglected the rest of the game was while it was being developed. In terms of "bang for your buck", Incarna expansion was a huge letdown. Was it merely the first step? Yes. Would the next few steps (within the year) have been better and added meaningful gameplay if everyone stayed quiet? Doubtful. In fact, I'd go with a very concrete "nope" for that one. Why? Look how long it took them to just prototype meaningful avatar-based gameplay, never mind actually go on and implement it. Look how long it took to get character creator alone working, and iron out major bugs in character creation and clothing. Even had they managed to add walking in stations within a year, how long would it have kept you entertained? Day? Week? I'd be bored of it within hours because there wouldn't be any reason to do ti, there'd be no gameplay involved. If they added games? Virtual game of chess within a virtual game? Kinda silly. And so on. Very, very simple. Bang for your buck. Can they implement it? Yes. But how long will it take, at what cost, and will it pay off in subs? Not to mention that the whole Incarna thing wasn't just due to Incarna itself. If you search the old posts, you'll see it was a combination of multiple factors that triggered the meltdown. Personally I was very much in favour of Incarna, based on the stuff that was shown years prior to Incarna's release. But when it became obvious that we'd get virtually no meaningful content from it, and it would take years more to get it going, very naturally people rebelled. If they told you today that ship rebalance will take 3 years, and in that time you'd see almost no changes to the game, would you be happy? Probably not. Too little bang for your buck. It's exactly the same with Incarna. That's really the only "beef" that many naysayers have with ambulation - it's not worth the price, currently.
Replies like this makes me wonder how EvE was when it started and how it is today
for now i say lets forget about WIS not because the forum bashing against trolls in every WIS thread after Incarna Not bc after Incarna ,people demand the impossible ,when it comes to WIS NOt bc every thing CCP does ,what this community ask ,it is never enough
And thats it, WIS can,t be implemented into EvE,bc of the extraordinary expectations people have now BC of the failure more then a year ago and i don,t b talk about the WIS thing,People are demanding more and more People demands are so huge from Ambulation its impossible now nothing to see here ,move on
|
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
183
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 01:30:00 -
[419] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Johan Civire wrote:I was thinking there are stop working on this wis project the still working on it ? ps no hating just want to now because iam a big fan of this project. They stopped ,thats all
the problem pal i dont belive you al your post see your own history are hated and bashing the wis project so you lying atleast 90% of your post.
So move on troll and let real people answer my question! thanks and end of discusion about this. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
612
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 12:15:00 -
[420] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Would the next few steps (within the year) have been better and added meaningful gameplay if everyone stayed quiet? Doubtful. In fact, I'd go with a very concrete "nope" for that one. Why? Look how long it took them to just prototype meaningful avatar-based gameplay, never mind actually go on and implement it. Look how long it took to get character creator alone working, and iron out major bugs in character creation and clothing. Even had they managed to add walking in stations within a year, how long would it have kept you entertained? Day? Week? I'd be bored of it within hours because there wouldn't be any reason to do ti, there'd be no gameplay involved. If they added games? Virtual game of chess within a virtual game? Kinda silly. And so on.
Very, very simple. Bang for your buck. Can they implement it? Yes. But how long will it take, at what cost, and will it pay off in subs? Not to mention that the whole Incarna thing wasn't just due to Incarna itself. If you search the old posts, you'll see it was a combination of multiple factors that triggered the meltdown.
Personally I was very much in favour of Incarna, based on the stuff that was shown years prior to Incarna's release. But when it became obvious that we'd get virtually no meaningful content from it, and it would take years more to get it going, very naturally people rebelled. If they told you today that ship rebalance will take 3 years, and in that time you'd see almost no changes to the game, would you be happy? Probably not. Too little bang for your buck. It's exactly the same with Incarna. That's really the only "beef" that many naysayers have with ambulation - it's not worth the price, currently.
The original release only took so long because they had to develop the engine from scratch. An engine that now has an entire Team, working with it (World of Darkness Online). Sure, they're all still prototyping but they managed to throw a working Eve prototype together for CCP to try in-company whilst making the past three very FiS orientated patches that everyone has loved (As well as working World of Darkness prototypes). Pull the World of Darkness team over to the Eve team to finnish some of these prototypes. WoD can wait.
I imagine the reason they can't do it now is because Dust is taking all the resources up. If your moaning about Eve not getting enough attention due to another project, you should be whining about Dust. But your not, because CCP can handle the work load.
The naysayers may think there wont be enough bang for buck, but that's just because they're not really thinking at all. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Ghazu
265
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 12:28:00 -
[421] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Shamus O'Reilly wrote:All i can think of right now is being actually like a real pirate where you can disable ships and board them. Can anyone say? "RAIDING PARTY!!!" It's pretty fun. I got to play this, actually. In Pirates of the Burning Sea MMO. Back in January 2008. Yeah...cutting edge stuff... Stitcher wrote:Business as usual then. I really don't know why I bother coming here. This exact same thing happened with Incarna - they had what I personally thought was a great idea to add whole new player-driven sections of the economy to the game, and a noisy faction of luddites in the community pissed all over it because it didn't fit their narrow vision of what EVE should be. I'm still angry about that. That's a very shortsighted way of looking at it. Everything has a price. Incarna had a price too, as in how long it took to make, and how neglected the rest of the game was while it was being developed. In terms of "bang for your buck", Incarna expansion was a huge letdown. Was it merely the first step? Yes. Would the next few steps (within the year) have been better and added meaningful gameplay if everyone stayed quiet? Doubtful. In fact, I'd go with a very concrete "nope" for that one. Why? Look how long it took them to just prototype meaningful avatar-based gameplay, never mind actually go on and implement it. Look how long it took to get character creator alone working, and iron out major bugs in character creation and clothing. Even had they managed to add walking in stations within a year, how long would it have kept you entertained? Day? Week? I'd be bored of it within hours because there wouldn't be any reason to do ti, there'd be no gameplay involved. If they added games? Virtual game of chess within a virtual game? Kinda silly. And so on. Very, very simple. Bang for your buck. Can they implement it? Yes. But how long will it take, at what cost, and will it pay off in subs? Not to mention that the whole Incarna thing wasn't just due to Incarna itself. If you search the old posts, you'll see it was a combination of multiple factors that triggered the meltdown. Personally I was very much in favour of Incarna, based on the stuff that was shown years prior to Incarna's release. But when it became obvious that we'd get virtually no meaningful content from it, and it would take years more to get it going, very naturally people rebelled. If they told you today that ship rebalance will take 3 years, and in that time you'd see almost no changes to the game, would you be happy? Probably not. Too little bang for your buck. It's exactly the same with Incarna. That's really the only "beef" that many naysayers have with ambulation - it's not worth the price, currently. Replies like this makes me wonder how EvE was when it started and how it is today for now i say lets forget about WIS not because the forum bashing against trolls in every WIS thread after Incarna Not bc after Incarna ,people demand the impossible ,when it comes to WIS NOt bc every thing CCP does ,what this community ask ,it is never enough And thats it, WIS can,t be implemented into EvE,bc of the extraordinary expectations people have now BC of the failure more then a year ago and i don,t b talk about the WIS thing,People are demanding more and more People demands are so huge from Ambulation its impossible now Why is it impossible? They are finished or close to finished with prototyping. If it is impossible to put out meaningful gameplay then just scrap the whole thing. http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 15:00:00 -
[422] - Quote
Implant manufacturing in the hands of the players removes yet another ISK sink.
How long before there is a "wallet tax" to start soaking up some of the excess ISK? Then, EVE can show the real world why the global economy is broken. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
732
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 16:54:00 -
[423] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Johan Civire wrote:I was thinking there are stop working on this wis project the still working on it ? ps no hating just want to now because iam a big fan of this project. They stopped ,thats all the problem pal i dont believe you and all your post *see your own history, are hated and bashing the wis project so your lying atleast 90% of your post. So move on troll and let real people answer my question! thanks and end of discusion about this.
read this thread again from the beginning
Its about that CCP thinks its better to discuss WIS on next fanfest rather then the usual discussions we had with Team Avatar
and about Team Avatar stopping with Avatar work for this winter expansion and beyond
CCP Unifex wrote:
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
Second post in this thread ,read again pls And if you have read all the WIS threads before you should know that i am not a wishater ,but reading whole threads seems to be difficult
nothing to see here ,move on
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
732
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 17:05:00 -
[424] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Shamus O'Reilly wrote:All i can think of right now is being actually like a real pirate where you can disable ships and board them. Can anyone say? "RAIDING PARTY!!!" It's pretty fun. I got to play this, actually. In Pirates of the Burning Sea MMO. Back in January 2008. Yeah...cutting edge stuff... Stitcher wrote:Business as usual then. I really don't know why I bother coming here. This exact same thing happened with Incarna - they had what I personally thought was a great idea to add whole new player-driven sections of the economy to the game, and a noisy faction of luddites in the community pissed all over it because it didn't fit their narrow vision of what EVE should be. I'm still angry about that. That's a very shortsighted way of looking at it. Everything has a price. Incarna had a price too, as in how long it took to make, and how neglected the rest of the game was while it was being developed. In terms of "bang for your buck", Incarna expansion was a huge letdown. Was it merely the first step? Yes. Would the next few steps (within the year) have been better and added meaningful gameplay if everyone stayed quiet? Doubtful. In fact, I'd go with a very concrete "nope" for that one. Why? Look how long it took them to just prototype meaningful avatar-based gameplay, never mind actually go on and implement it. Look how long it took to get character creator alone working, and iron out major bugs in character creation and clothing. Even had they managed to add walking in stations within a year, how long would it have kept you entertained? Day? Week? I'd be bored of it within hours because there wouldn't be any reason to do ti, there'd be no gameplay involved. If they added games? Virtual game of chess within a virtual game? Kinda silly. And so on. Very, very simple. Bang for your buck. Can they implement it? Yes. But how long will it take, at what cost, and will it pay off in subs? Not to mention that the whole Incarna thing wasn't just due to Incarna itself. If you search the old posts, you'll see it was a combination of multiple factors that triggered the meltdown. Personally I was very much in favour of Incarna, based on the stuff that was shown years prior to Incarna's release. But when it became obvious that we'd get virtually no meaningful content from it, and it would take years more to get it going, very naturally people rebelled. If they told you today that ship rebalance will take 3 years, and in that time you'd see almost no changes to the game, would you be happy? Probably not. Too little bang for your buck. It's exactly the same with Incarna. That's really the only "beef" that many naysayers have with ambulation - it's not worth the price, currently. Replies like this makes me wonder how EvE was when it started and how it is today for now i say lets forget about WIS not because the forum bashing against trolls in every WIS thread after Incarna Not bc after Incarna ,people demand the impossible ,when it comes to WIS NOt bc every thing CCP does ,what this community ask ,it is never enough And thats it, WIS can,t be implemented into EvE,bc of the extraordinary expectations people have now BC of the failure more then a year ago and i don,t b talk about the WIS thing,People are demanding more and more People demands are so huge from Ambulation its impossible now Why is it impossible? They are finished or close to finished with prototyping. If it is impossible to put out meaningful gameplay then just scrap the whole thing.
CCP would show us ,If they had something interesting ,to calm down the WIS hating whiners and the ones who always whine ,when CCP changes something in this game
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
615
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 22:50:00 -
[425] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: CCP would show us ,If they had something interesting ,to calm down the WIS hating whiners and the ones who always whine ,when CCP changes something in this game
I know that your really Pro-WiS, but most of the time it doesn't show. Every post you make is pessimistic, down treading and damn near soul destroying. you need to be less argumentative. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
733
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 02:54:00 -
[426] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: CCP would show us ,If they had something interesting ,to calm down the WIS hating whiners and the ones who always whine ,when CCP changes something in this game
I know that your really Pro-WiS, but most of the time it doesn't show. Every post you make is pessimistic, down treading and damn near soul destroying. you need to be less argumentative.
I was less argumentative in the forum discussions before ,but it seems CCP or any of the whiners cares about people who try to discuss in a normal manner. Besides ,what is the use of making of constructive comments ,after CCP decided to remove the discussion from this forum and get it to some select ones at fanfest. You can all go crazy about WIS here ,but CCP decided to ignore this forum and ignoring the discussion thread before this one. They decided to ignore the ones who came up with a lot of good ideas and even the people who demand so called meaningful game play .
And if you find my remarks soul destroying,i am sorry for that .
fly safe nothing to see here ,move on
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
620
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 12:28:00 -
[427] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: I was less argumentative in the forum discussions before ,but it seems CCP or any of the whiners cares about people who try to discuss in a normal manner. Besides ,what is the use of making of constructive comments ,after CCP decided to remove the discussion from this forum and get it to some select ones at fanfest. You can all go crazy about WIS here ,but CCP decided to ignore this forum and ignoring the discussion thread before this one. They decided to ignore the ones who came up with a lot of good ideas and even the people who demand so called meaningful game play .
And if you find my remarks soul destroying,i am sorry for that .
fly safe
I know it seems that way, but CCP do listen from time to time. The thread about the Bounty Hunting that was created by Malcanis spent months arguing about how the bounty hunting system should look, and petitioned to get it fixed. As a result the new bounty hunting system in Retribution includes most of the ideas put out by those of us arguing in that thread. I personally, am very happy to have taken part. And I'm very happy to see a system put in place that's been so constructively talked through, not just by CCP, but by the players.
CCP do listen, even if it takes them like... a year... to do anything meaningful about it. The more people involved, the more inclined they will be to listen. Although there isn't really anything in this thread to discuss, people posting their support here and showing that they want this sooner rather than later, and instead of some of the FiS stuff will hopefully give them some incentive to continue. They do read the forums. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Zillazuki
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 12:58:00 -
[428] - Quote
I don't like the idea of leaving my ship...can't I just send in a robot to do the exploration work and control it remotely? |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
466
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 13:02:00 -
[429] - Quote
When/if the avatar exploration content comes out, do you think the controls will be designed to be played with a gamepad? I hate controlling third person viewed avatars with a mouse and keyboard... They see me trolling, they hating... |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
620
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 13:17:00 -
[430] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:When/if the avatar exploration content comes out, do you think the controls will be designed to be played with a gamepad? I hate controlling third person viewed avatars with a mouse and keyboard...
I very much doubt that. It is after all, designed for Eve, a PC game. Why would they design it for a gamepad? "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Escomboli
Hammer Holding Wrong Hole.
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 13:31:00 -
[431] - Quote
I'm sorry for the people that don't like this idea, but to me it sounds awesome. Maybe have certain NPC's drop "star maps" that act like treasure maps where you have to have certain skills to decipher, and track where the location is. They would lead you to abandoned (or not so much) structures, wrecks, mining colonies, etc.
Yes CCP, +1 for this. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
733
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 07:15:00 -
[432] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: I was less argumentative in the forum discussions before ,but it seems CCP or any of the whiners cares about people who try to discuss in a normal manner. Besides ,what is the use of making of constructive comments ,after CCP decided to remove the discussion from this forum and get it to some select ones at fanfest. You can all go crazy about WIS here ,but CCP decided to ignore this forum and ignoring the discussion thread before this one. They decided to ignore the ones who came up with a lot of good ideas and even the people who demand so called meaningful game play .
And if you find my remarks soul destroying,i am sorry for that .
fly safe
I know it seems that way, but CCP do listen from time to time. The thread about the Bounty Hunting that was created by Malcanis spent months arguing about how the bounty hunting system should look, and petitioned to get it fixed. As a result the new bounty hunting system in Retribution includes most of the ideas put out by those of us arguing in that thread. I personally, am very happy to have taken part. And I'm very happy to see a system put in place that's been so constructively talked through, not just by CCP, but by the players. CCP do listen, even if it takes them like... a year... to do anything meaningful about it. The more people involved, the more inclined they will be to listen. Although there isn't really anything in this thread to discuss, people posting their support here and showing that they want this sooner rather than later, and instead of some of the FiS stuff will hopefully give them some incentive to continue. They do read the forums.
Edit :reply is gone,strange nothing to see here ,move on
|
Ghazu
267
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 08:00:00 -
[433] - Quote
oldbut what will happen is, silence until the fanfest, and a big bang unveiling presentation at the fanfest, and discussion will resume after that. http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
733
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 08:05:00 -
[434] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:oldbut what will happen is, silence until the fanfest, and a big bang unveiling presentation at the fanfest, and discussion will resume after that.
lets hope ,that is the case nothing to see here ,move on
|
Alice Saki
18308
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 08:08:00 -
[435] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ghazu wrote:oldbut what will happen is, silence until the fanfest, and a big bang unveiling presentation at the fanfest, and discussion will resume after that. lets hope ,that is the case
This ^_^ http://i.imgur.com/vXey1.png |
flakeys
Angels of Anarchy Interstellar Confederation
411
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 08:59:00 -
[436] - Quote
Besides being more of a spaceship person myself this reminds me a bit of the first time WIS was spoken about .In other words i expect to see it around 2015 earliest IF it even get's to see daylight. There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed.-á |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
206
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 14:21:00 -
[437] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ghazu wrote:oldbut what will happen is, silence until the fanfest, and a big bang unveiling presentation at the fanfest, and discussion will resume after that. lets hope ,that is the case This ^_^
That ^ |
Irya Boone
Escadron leader
56
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 15:10:00 -
[438] - Quote
just need to transform the ship into my avatar and let me run in corridors to kill others or play games in BIG CQs And most of all let me explore Sleepers Structures and fight in it against players ennemies or drones etc etc Improve C2 class WH More anos more signs ...RENAME null sec system With the name Of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It xill be awesome-á |
Belanar Colt
Black Crystal Industries TERRA FIRMA.
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 23:06:00 -
[439] - Quote
Hi I was curious to find out, when is that button like ever going to be green? You know... that one, the "Station Door Button". Also, how does the public find this idea?
- To walk around ships while a Captain is on board! Such as, a Capital ship! Also to utilize the cargo bay and contracts to hand the CPT while in his or her cargo hold? - To utilize Contracting to another era, having Contract Escort along side Contract Courier, to have Contract Security to pickup and eliminate who ever is on the other side of that paper. If need be, as the opportunity may present itself, pick up the bounty isk if that case presents itself ontop. - To have a walk-about on a ship, giving these men and women, our beloved peers the opportunity to present stowaway as it is not a crime, but a role-playing measure for the CPT himself or if so the woman herself the selection of options to take in such a situation if ever one arises. To have pods. Chaffs for those pods. Pretty little tables to sit at. Conference rooms to have a number of optional animations to select at, when chosen words are spoken. There are a value of selections, rich numbers in that I have no doubt are more compitent in the success of accomplishing ideas such at those above, and hopefully more below. Think about it!
Don't forget me!
- Belanar Colt ~ Chase Dreamz |
Attero Dominatus Alabel
Black Crystal Industries TERRA FIRMA.
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:11:00 -
[440] - Quote
"Wow, I'm now landing from a pod onto PS3!"
ADA .......... |
|
White T95
Black Crystal Industries TERRA FIRMA.
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:14:00 -
[441] - Quote
Attero Dominatus Alabel wrote:"Wow, I'm now landing from a pod onto PS3!"
ADA ..........
Perhaps this sort of gaming will give the pilots the availability to indulge themself into DUST514 aspects a little more. Perhaps using these tools from previous Dev comments, and the one above the option to interact with EVE and pod to Dust
|
ACHILLES01
Kabala Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:20:00 -
[442] - Quote
"I find that the comment toward DUST514 being not a sell off sort of offencive towards everyone that, actually, appreciates their work. Also I find these ideas as nothing other than positive contributions which may affect DUST and EVE in a good way!!
Achilles You will wander the underworld blind, deaf, and dumb, and all the dead will know: This is the fool who thought he killed Achilles |
ACHILLES01
Kabala Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:22:00 -
[443] - Quote
"I find that the comment toward DUST514 being not a sell off sort of offencive towards everyone that, actually, appreciates their work. Also I find these ideas as nothing other than positive contributions which may affect DUST and EVE in a good way!!
Achilles,, You will wander the underworld blind, deaf, and dumb, and all the dead will know: This is the fool who thought he killed Achilles |
Keran Set
Deutsche Freelancer Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:44:00 -
[444] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:. The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few. I'll be back to comment further once I've changed my underwear.
Definitely this Seriously, i love it |
Davon Mandra'thin
Solar Horizon Directive Blue Nation
112
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 04:19:00 -
[445] - Quote
I image scouting through wrecks in these new WiS style ruins to be like the Deadspace games. At least that's how I hope it will be. I can't wait. |
Belanar Colt
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 04:40:00 -
[446] - Quote
I think the placement of drones, controlled at the "Drone Station" par say, would be something amazing to have implemented! Having that little conduit beside your bed... yeah something like that , just only in a ship. With drone augments to place on for that duration of time? WOOH that would only justifed as nothing short of spectacular. I want to occupy drones. Don't kill my dream now .
- Belanar Colt ~ Chase Dreamz |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
735
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 12:42:00 -
[447] - Quote
Belanar Colt wrote:Hi I was curious to find out, when is that button like ever going to be green? You know... that one, the "Station Door Button". Also, how does the public find this idea? - To walk around ships while a Captain is on board! Such as, a Capital ship! Also to utilize the cargo bay and contracts to hand the CPT while in his or her cargo hold? - To utilize Contracting to another era, having Contract Escort along side Contract Courier, to have Contract Security to pickup and eliminate who ever is on the other side of that paper. If need be, as the opportunity may present itself, pick up the bounty isk if that case presents itself ontop. - To have a walk-about on a ship, giving these men and women, our beloved peers the opportunity to present stowaway as it is not a crime, but a role-playing measure for the CPT himself or if so the woman herself the selection of options to take in such a situation if ever one arises. To have pods. Chaffs for those pods. Pretty little tables to sit at. Conference rooms to have a number of optional animations to select at, when chosen words are spoken. There are a value of selections, rich numbers in that I have no doubt are more compitent in the success of accomplishing ideas such at those above, and hopefully more below. Think about it! Don't forget me! - Belanar Colt ~ Chase Dreamz
There were a lot of threads about what me want ,when the door actually opens. But ccp was forced to come up with gameplay outside of the station first.
It is kind of funny ,we have this useless door ,but the actual gameplay CCP thinks about is not in a station. The gameplay they eventually come up with must be awesome or it will be the next WIS disappointment.
I would love something more in the line of their vision of EvE video and that would mean opening that door and have gameplay
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Ghazu
269
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 12:46:00 -
[448] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Belanar Colt wrote:Hi I was curious to find out, when is that button like ever going to be green? You know... that one, the "Station Door Button". Also, how does the public find this idea? - To walk around ships while a Captain is on board! Such as, a Capital ship! Also to utilize the cargo bay and contracts to hand the CPT while in his or her cargo hold? - To utilize Contracting to another era, having Contract Escort along side Contract Courier, to have Contract Security to pickup and eliminate who ever is on the other side of that paper. If need be, as the opportunity may present itself, pick up the bounty isk if that case presents itself ontop. - To have a walk-about on a ship, giving these men and women, our beloved peers the opportunity to present stowaway as it is not a crime, but a role-playing measure for the CPT himself or if so the woman herself the selection of options to take in such a situation if ever one arises. To have pods. Chaffs for those pods. Pretty little tables to sit at. Conference rooms to have a number of optional animations to select at, when chosen words are spoken. There are a value of selections, rich numbers in that I have no doubt are more compitent in the success of accomplishing ideas such at those above, and hopefully more below. Think about it! Don't forget me! - Belanar Colt ~ Chase Dreamz There were a lot of threads about what me want ,when the door actually opens. But ccp was forced to come up with gameplay outside of the station first. It is kind of funny ,we have this useless door ,but the actual gameplay CCP thinks about is not in a station. The gameplay they eventually come up with must be awesome or it will be the next WIS disappointment. I would love something more in the line of their vision of EvE video and that would mean opening that door and have gameplay what if i open the door and all i see is a bunch of dudes emoting each other? http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
735
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 13:09:00 -
[449] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Belanar Colt wrote:Hi I was curious to find out, when is that button like ever going to be green? You know... that one, the "Station Door Button". Also, how does the public find this idea? - To walk around ships while a Captain is on board! Such as, a Capital ship! Also to utilize the cargo bay and contracts to hand the CPT while in his or her cargo hold? - To utilize Contracting to another era, having Contract Escort along side Contract Courier, to have Contract Security to pickup and eliminate who ever is on the other side of that paper. If need be, as the opportunity may present itself, pick up the bounty isk if that case presents itself ontop. - To have a walk-about on a ship, giving these men and women, our beloved peers the opportunity to present stowaway as it is not a crime, but a role-playing measure for the CPT himself or if so the woman herself the selection of options to take in such a situation if ever one arises. To have pods. Chaffs for those pods. Pretty little tables to sit at. Conference rooms to have a number of optional animations to select at, when chosen words are spoken. There are a value of selections, rich numbers in that I have no doubt are more compitent in the success of accomplishing ideas such at those above, and hopefully more below. Think about it! Don't forget me! - Belanar Colt ~ Chase Dreamz There were a lot of threads about what me want ,when the door actually opens. But ccp was forced to come up with gameplay outside of the station first. It is kind of funny ,we have this useless door ,but the actual gameplay CCP thinks about is not in a station. The gameplay they eventually come up with must be awesome or it will be the next WIS disappointment. I would love something more in the line of their vision of EvE video and that would mean opening that door and have gameplay what if i open the door and all i see is a bunch of dudes emoting each other?
what if i open the door and i see actual gameplay
nothing to see here ,move on
|
Ghazu
269
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 13:38:00 -
[450] - Quote
guess we will find out after fanfest. http://www.minerbumping.com/ |
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
735
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 16:14:00 -
[451] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:guess we will find out after fanfest.
i guess ,but i think you are more optimistic about WIS then me this time ,Ghazu nothing to see here ,move on
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
646
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 19:19:00 -
[452] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:I image scouting through wrecks in these new WiS style ruins to be like the Deadspace games. At least that's how I hope it will be. I can't wait.
Love the DeadSpace games. Isaac is a bad ass. Yea, if they had to model the gameplay for the station exploration on any one game, I would choose DeadSpace. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Davon Mandra'thin
Solar Horizon Directive Blue Nation
112
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 09:57:00 -
[453] - Quote
It's a shame this thread doesn't get more attention. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
736
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 12:01:00 -
[454] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:It's a shame this thread doesn't get more attention.
You have to go to Fanfest to get the attention you want nothing to see here ,move on
|
Asura Cascade
Mostly Harmful Pirate Corp
4
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 12:13:00 -
[455] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:. The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few. I'll be back to comment further once I've changed my underwear.
Hell yes. |
Besbin
Balderfrey Holding inc
11
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 17:04:00 -
[456] - Quote
I, for one, truelly hope that the vision that is WiS will come to pass. I am undoubtedly not the only one who to some degree play Eve also for the potential that it holds.
LOVE the concept, HATE the downprioritization (or rather the fact that with this message it will now be 2-2-+ years before we see anything).
I acknowledge the ressource bottleneck, but hope you will continue to run a slow burn. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
60
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 17:29:00 -
[457] - Quote
Quote:what if i open the door and all i see is a bunch of dudes emoting each other?
You are boring like this door button. Red Maiden: People actually play with WiS off? Why? It's really well done, and adds an excellent layer of immersion in the game. Plus, my character's ass is out of this world and I like looking at it. |
Johnny Bloomington
Justified Chaos
40
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 19:19:00 -
[458] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Quote:what if i open the door and all i see is a bunch of dudes emoting each other? You are boring like this door button.
You open the door and see CCP watching TV in there breakroom. |
Kenneth O'Hara
Bareback Pornstars Fade 2 Black
4975
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:02:00 -
[459] - Quote
I have a sudden urge to play Dead Space.
Sorry, off topic. Best thread ever!!!
Stick around. I'm full of bad ideas. ~Isaac Clarke |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
366
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 23:04:00 -
[460] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:There were a lot of threads about what me want ,when the door actually opens. But ccp was forced to come up with gameplay outside of the station first.
It is kind of funny ,we have this useless door ,but the actual gameplay CCP thinks about is not in a station. The gameplay they eventually come up with must be awesome or it will be the next WIS disappointment.
I would love something more in the line of their vision of EvE video and that would mean opening that door and have gameplay
Well, they could TOTALLY change the way the game feels, if they wanted to.
For example, consider how you pick up missions now. You dock with station, double-click portrait, click Accept. And you're good to undock. Fun factor? Immersion? Nonexistent. Considering the pool from which missions are chosen are tiny, the missions are all stupendously generic, and PvE combat is dull to the point of extinction.
But, what if, when you docked, you ended up not in the CQ, but a docking area. With other players running around. And you had to jog to the NPC, and talk to him. And NPC would actually talk back. And based on your dialogue choices, your mission would actually change. When you changed fittings on your ship, you could see mechanical hands in station fitting in the new turrets, or loading drones. Immersion would go through the roof. Add the ability to talk and interact with other people, fun and games and maybe even a little 3rd person shooting (if at war), and suddenly the game feels and plays TOTALLY different from before.
Now, some bitter vets will immediately cry that this takes too long. The station has to load, you have to run to and from the NPC, you have to actually talk to the NPC, etc. And it's all true. But en route to the NPC, all kinds of fun stuff could happen. If your sec status is low, you might be offered a black market mission, or be ambushed by bounty hunters or whatever. Stations wouldn't just be a place to ship spin anymore. And if you're at war, they wouldn't be a safe haven - the enemy could kick down your door and gun you down like a dog. See? Suddenly it's a whole another ball game.
Imagine how the game would be then. Like Mass Effect on steroids, in MMO setting. Huge. People would flock to that like you wouldn't believe. At least that's what I'm expecting. Space ships aren't for everyone, for many folks avatars are very important. I believe CCP said so themselves, speaking about the Asian market for EVE.
But, this requires time, resources, manpower, and above all desire to take that risk. And I just don't feel CCP is ready. They've got themselves in a quiet little rut, and have been sitting there for 9 years and counting. The game may be growing (or shrinking, depending who you ask) a little, but it's nowhere near where it could be. EVE's 40k concurrent users is a joke, when GW2 had 400k concurrent users in early access, and more than that at launch. When Pandaria, as dumbed down as it is, had over a million concurrent users. It could be better. A lot better. Graphically EVE is superb. Lore-wise it is incredibly strong, but they make ****-poor use of it (audio, cutscenes, dialogue, etc?). What's lacking is gameplay, plain and simple. |
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
739
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 09:31:00 -
[461] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: stuff
The funny thing is ,even with the only FIS direction CCP has taken ,they will never do enough or right in the eyes of the ones crying for only FIS recourses. I checked Duality and the changes they made in how the game will feel and look are great,but the moment the expansion goes live ,a lot of those whiners will be showing their face again ,to cry a little bit more. After 4 December ,the give me back my old EvE threads will fill up the forums.
S.S.I2014
|
Belanar Colt
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 12:09:00 -
[462] - Quote
You know... I hate the shortcut to Ctrl+W.
You know whatGÇÖs me? Knowing that there are life boats and bridges with the phrase 'Capt. on deck' and cards with poker chips and having war declarations knowing all this is a part of my reality. By the tool being a table being utilized!
You think having food to preserve life and games to entertain reality may be rubbish at times but when you have a vote towards collaboration with the brainstorming and development of ideas towards civilization of mass and pollution population and declarations you may think something like damn I totally want in on that. Such situations are being developed as we speak to others day in and day out even during the times downtime is initiated or half the world is sleeping. Thinking that there are those of us who may sneak out and those of us who may read while staying in, has me believing there is so much more potential in our skills that we haven't even been taught yet, or haven't been taught by those who guide us but something as a result of this learned through our lives experiences. I have ideas to discuss and thinking about the introduction topics being reviewed here, I am hoping for the best greatest courteous outcome of it all. Well, thatGÇÖs about itGǪ but I do find life boats having been fun to play with in real life as something like a shuttle in Eve without the whole car pool techno gadget, bridges on titans having an impact on battles regardless of augment slots but skills learned for such procedures in different expeditions, and councils or board members tables suited within each ship adjusted to its size, be something to look forward to if ever the Tranquility population intends on playing for years to go. For years on end that I would with so much joy look forward to seeing. As for declarations in the event you have a war declared upon your forces you find it in you to adjust numbers in responses by having a module fitted to teleport as a warp adjusted for every ally force online to the spot you are at. Especially while the idea of having spare a ship and boarding it to take control, voiding further contact with your alliance and that online person being teleported as a warp well to such a modules point of origin (and is all that I have to find myself a fanatic of at this time. Anyways, DEVS I hope you adjust some ideas in your own image.
I dislike thinking potential would not be used as a tool to manipulate others towards the inclination of projects in order to exceed the expectations of your own mind.
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
702
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 12:17:00 -
[463] - Quote
I'm sure there is a point to that mono-log, but I haven't got the faintest idea what it is. ^^ "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Belanar Colt
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 14:42:00 -
[464] - Quote
Here's a review of a straight common analysis
Link: http://www.justdubs.net/article/Episodes/3273
Creators: (More at IMDbPro -+) - Mobile Suit Gundam Seed (2002GÇô2003) - Yoshiyuki Tomino, Hajime Yatate
Enjoy the theological outcome of a new era, one I picture of bridge like structure |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
741
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 23:55:00 -
[465] - Quote
Since Unifex called out the stop to WIS ,let him reply to this thread . ooooh wait he can,t S.S.I2014
|
Rozina Keikira
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 22:59:00 -
[466] - Quote
Happily I feel obligated to say, that "With a Voyager hyperspace and stable warp drive theme towards the success in full warp rally point objective it would bring players a new item to enjoy."
Cheese is great with waffles better believe it! |
Belanar Colt
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 14:42:00 -
[467] - Quote
I would like to call this, Materialized Aspects of Optimal Strategic Countermeasures M.A.O.S.C. developed in Avatar. +1 for pods at the ready. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
416
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 15:01:00 -
[468] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote: stuff The funny thing is ,even with the only FIS direction CCP has taken ,they will never do enough or right in the eyes of the ones crying for only FIS recourses. I checked Duality and the changes they made in how the game will feel and look are great,but the moment the expansion goes live ,a lot of those whiners will be showing their face again ,to cry a little bit more. After 4 December ,the give me back my old EvE threads will fill up the forums.
See, the way I look at it is, refocusing on FiS was very much needed and overdue. There are still many things, beyond ship rebalance which will still take a while, that need to be fixed. Drones, drone UI, possibly D-Scan UI, PoSes, etc.
BUT, look at the past few expansions. Basically all expansions since Incarna, that were FiS focused. Crucible, Inferno and upcoming Retribution. Did the population go up from those? I mean in any significant way? Not that I saw. Crucible helped the game recover from Incarnatron, which I blame more on NEX and lack of content than on actual WiS.
So, if they continue on the road of "more of the same", that is FiS, what will happen? Stagnation. No growth. Possibly no losses either, except to boredom, but no growth.
What they NEED, badly need, is something to attract a large number of new and old players to the game, and keep them. And there's really nothing more they can do with spaceships that will accomplish that. People who like spaceships and pew pew are already playing EVE. There aren't any more of them out there to attract, at least not with more spaceships and pew pew. They need a completely new facet of the game to attract new subscribers.
Look at WoW expansions. First one? Flying and a whole new continent full of content and dungeons for PvEers, and new battleground and arenas for PvPers. Population grew! Gasp. Shocking, right? Why? They added stuff that didn't exist before. That's what EVE needs. Not another spreadsheet or another window to deal with, but actual GAMEPLAY that's very different from before. And it's hard to do with spaceships. At best, they would have to change the way ships are flown (as in, direct control with joystick) to add anything truly new. A couple of new overpowered modules like ASB isn't going to cut it.
That's why so many are still pro-WiS. It, if it includes actual gameplay, has the potential to attract a completely new crowd to EVE. People who don't really like FiS, but do like avatar stuff, trading, etc. It really is the next best hope for EVE's stable future.
Now, let's not forget Dust. Good idea, in theory. Especially if the link between the games is solid. That is, if you are able to go to planets from EVE and watch the battle, or if you are able to take your trooper from Dust and fly up to EVE station and talk to the guy hiring you. But it's not EVE gameplay. It will not generate more subs. And being a PS3 exclusive? Bonehead idea. I'm sorry, but that's as nicely as I can put it. Had it been on PC, I personally would have played it. But I am NOT buying a PS3 (especially with PS4 on horizon, which will devalue PS3 to total crap) just to play Dust. Not to mention my current PC is about 3x more powerful than PS3. Why in god's name would I spend money on it!? Well, it's all been said before, nothing new here.
Bottom line - at this point all we can do is sit back and watch Dust crush and burn, and wait until all those resources can be reassigned back to EVE. We might see some WiS news then. I just hope CCP learns something from the whole Dust thing. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
96
|
Posted - 2012.11.26 18:34:00 -
[469] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Metal Icarus wrote:My one concern is what happens to your ship while you are in EVA? Does your ship enter a stasis mode until you are dead? Can other people board your ship and steal it?
I think that this will make implants a much more interesting market! Even a profession! It would be interesting if people could in fact board your ship, but upon docking at the wreck while a second person is docked, they land at the other side of the wreck. It would result in having to cross the wreck to reach the other pilot's ship, meaning a conflict would likely happen in the middle, or at least the person who knew they would be stealing would have to "stealth" past the other explorer. Docking at the same spot and just turning around and boarding the other guy's ship just sounds a bit too easy :P
There is an EVA cloak that you can engage when you are docked (your ship just appears to be part of the wreckage pile). Other pilots dock at other places on the original site, or even on part of your ship. Of course your ship has booby traps set as well. Your ship cannot receive fatal damage, but you might have some repair costs to take into account when you sell your recovered goodies. |
Grezh
Sturmgrenadier Inc
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 20:26:00 -
[470] - Quote
It's nice and all to have implant manufacturing being put into this feature. Assuming we will have a place to meet with people in station; have you thought of having the ability to discover ancient games from these abandoned stations, like poker or pool, allowing for the decorating the corp meeting room for some mini games at slow times? This would nicely tie in the two current ideas for WIS and will allow for some another market niche. |
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1182
|
Posted - 2012.11.28 21:07:00 -
[471] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Metal Icarus wrote:My one concern is what happens to your ship while you are in EVA? Does your ship enter a stasis mode until you are dead? Can other people board your ship and steal it?
I think that this will make implants a much more interesting market! Even a profession! It would be interesting if people could in fact board your ship, but upon docking at the wreck while a second person is docked, they land at the other side of the wreck. It would result in having to cross the wreck to reach the other pilot's ship, meaning a conflict would likely happen in the middle, or at least the person who knew they would be stealing would have to "stealth" past the other explorer. Docking at the same spot and just turning around and boarding the other guy's ship just sounds a bit too easy :P When Team Avatar was talking , 3 options were mentioned: You send a crew member in, you send a spare clone of yourself in, you go in. In case 1 and 2, your ship is not abandoned and you can fly it off or defend it as needed. For option 3 your ship would be abandoned. You would either take the risk that anyone can steal your ship, or have a friend hop into it and keep it safe for you. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Beta Miner
COBRA Logistics Outer-Haven
2
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 05:56:00 -
[472] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: GǪ EVE/CCP needs to diversify to stay healthy GǪ CCP, for all its success is still a small fish in a big pond. In order to maintain its health (so it can keep eve running) it needs to start appealing to a wider audience, while still keeping its core business intact. So, even in spite of the unfortunate past Dust and Incarna are good ideas.
The idea of having two concurrent games is brilliant, sort of like extra content for both games free of charge. I would like to see this increased even further than the current Dust model hints at. IGÇÖve mentioned this concept a few time before; First we have walking in stations, then walking in wreaks and eventually walking on planets. Plus, if capsuleers and Dust mercs can rub elbows on stations, whatGÇÖs stopping them from teaming up and salvaging wreaks together? Or running a PI operation together?
|
Shelley09
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 10:08:00 -
[473] - Quote
All well and good but surely, in the future after dust is up and running wouldn't it be favourable to finish the current incarna program, then use the same infrastructure for abandoned exploration sites. mainly due to the fact that it was an impossibility to have thousands of people in one 'room' on incarna walking in a station. i propose what i posted a while back that if multilayer walking in stations were to be released it could be separated into levels, as physically it's impossible to fit said many people into one room , therefore not fry everyone pc into a pile of silicon and shiny L.E.D's. If this was eventually set-up based on stations , similar or in fact the same method could be used for other sites, as these exploration sites do contain stations after all. Thus making the whole job a lot easier and using the same code developed an expansion previously for example. this would ofc free up time to develop the mechanics of the sites rather than a entirely new system.
furthermore i noticed people above talking about salvaging wrecks through avatar based systems etc, my point still stands if something can be developed that can be used as a platform to generalise the whole thing, it's then up to (crazy) imaginations of le GM's :) -Shelley09 (friendly neighbourhood pirate drug lord) |
Nick Rich
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 16:25:00 -
[474] - Quote
Shelley09 wrote:All well and good but surely, in the future after dust is up and running wouldn't it be favourable to finish the current incarna program, then use the same infrastructure for abandoned exploration sites. mainly due to the fact that it was an impossibility to have thousands of people in one 'room' on incarna walking in a station. i propose what i posted a while back that if multilayer walking in stations were to be released it could be separated into levels, as physically it's impossible to fit said many people into one room , therefore not fry everyone pc into a pile of silicon and shiny L.E.D's. If this was eventually set-up based on stations , similar or in fact the same method could be used for other sites, as these exploration sites do contain stations after all. Thus making the whole job a lot easier and using the same code developed an expansion previously for example. this would ofc free up time to develop the mechanics of the sites rather than a entirely new system.
furthermore i noticed people above talking about salvaging wrecks through avatar based systems etc, my point still stands if something can be developed that can be used as a platform to generalise the whole thing, it's then up to (crazy) imaginations of le GM's :) -Shelley09 (friendly neighbourhood pirate drug lord)
Maybe it would be easier to make a restriction on a particular station level. A controller that can be a lack of oxygen for example, when the number of characters exceeds the limit on the level climbs plaque that says that a little later you will be able to go. Sorry for my english, but I do not use a translator, because I want to talk to you in the same language. |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 17:33:00 -
[475] - Quote
There's terrific potential in WiS in a Universe like EVE. Sticking with just FiS is limiting the possibilities, the universe to what we already have.
I'd love to open the stupid door, i'd love to explore lifeless hulks and stations. Please CCP don't drop WiS.
One can only hope... and keep clicking the "like" button. :) |
Aramatheia
European Nuthouse
60
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 07:52:00 -
[476] - Quote
going EVA into wrecks and those ruined stations and would be awesome. Anyone imagined the idea of going in with a bunch of ppl through all sorts of nasty stuff finding an awesome ship upgrade or manufacturing item, then killing the group and escaping with all the loot!? |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 13:24:00 -
[477] - Quote
Midnight Hope wrote:There's terrific potential in WiS in a Universe like EVE. Sticking with just FiS is limiting the possibilities, the universe to what we already have.
I'd love to open the stupid door, i'd love to explore lifeless hulks and stations. Please CCP don't drop WiS.
One can only hope... and keep clicking the "like" button. :) this |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 13:48:00 -
[478] - Quote
What would be nice, is if you could also play non-capsuleers (alt, of course) and also disguise capsuleers as non-capsuleers with some fake skin and such. That, combined with option of hitching ride from capsuleer with ship would add a lot of possibilities to the game and could draw new players in. Specifically those players who are lot less ship-centric and still have love for science fiction. I might myself make an alt just for that and send that alt on grand tour of low and null sec, hitching rides and earning passages to next station. Tour would be either with or without a mission of its own.
Oh, and do watch in Youtube EOHPoker's Clear Skies. That is both fun in itself, and gives lot of good ideas. At least 1st part, since I haven't watched more... which I clearly have to rectify right now. |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
187
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 18:11:00 -
[479] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:What would be nice, is if you could also play non-capsuleers (alt, of course) and also disguise capsuleers as non-capsuleers with some fake skin and such. That, combined with option of hitching ride from capsuleer with ship would add a lot of possibilities to the game and could draw new players in. Specifically those players who are lot less ship-centric and still have love for science fiction. I might myself make an alt just for that and send that alt on grand tour of low and null sec, hitching rides and earning passages to next station. Tour would be either with or without a mission of its own.
Oh, and do watch in Youtube EOHPoker's Clear Skies. That is both fun in itself, and gives lot of good ideas. At least 1st part, since I haven't watched more... which I clearly have to rectify right now. EOHPoker's? wrong... try Ian Chisholmerrrrrrwhatever it was not made by EOHPoker, they just added it to their videos because they can. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.26 18:12:00 -
[480] - Quote
Ah, thank you for the correction. I will edit my post accordingly. |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
496
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 11:03:00 -
[481] - Quote
CCP should enable the multiplayer establishments as an opt in beta in preparation for this awesome exploration stuff I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ghazu
410
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 11:58:00 -
[482] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:CCP should enable the multiplayer establishments as an opt in beta in preparation for this awesome exploration stuff Dude's emoting each other in a pretend-bar is frivolous, useless and generally a stupid way to squander resources, you don't even need to test it lol. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Flamespar
Woof Club
496
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 12:21:00 -
[483] - Quote
Nah. They need to test the games ability to render multiple avatars in the same environment. I suggested the multiuser establishments as an easy first step as I remember a Dev saying they were almost ready to go (during Incarna anyway) I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Nessa Aldeen
The Sword and The Shield
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 13:10:00 -
[484] - Quote
In its current form, Incarna is clearly pointless. Apart from the impressive avatar sculpting part, there is no reason to even load CQ as it doe However, this does not mean that CCP should put it on ice like what is being mentioned. Promising thousands of players the ability to interact in stations and then getting cold feet after the debacle of the NEX is certainly not the way to go.
Though EVA and exploration gaming is a step in making it more meaningful, WiS feature would have provided several psychological attachment effects to the player. One, is the ability to actually explore the station and its inhabitants. Since the station themselves are massive, empire based stations could in fact be divided into multiple categories either in low or hi sec. This can be further broken down into secure areas or seedy areas. In secure areas, should trouble occur or you cause trouble well you know. While in seedier areas, i.e. brothels, drug dealers, gun runners, anything goes. This could be expanded into missions, sub-games, gambling etc. Establishment of shops, recruitment offices etc can further be made via Aurum or more isk sink models. WIS should NEVER be like the standard MMO we see everywhere (yes, no stupid emoting crap). Attachment to the avatar would be far more than a golden dildo in space or poo goo in a pod.
Two, by re-imagining WiS you could further establish links (taking a shuttle down) to planetary cities and of course the ship themselves when it is in the bay. This would expand EVE into further avatar driven gameplay. Again, the scale of that would really be indeed impressive. A breathing living EVE on multiple levels with a humanoid will always take preference to ship avatars in space from a humanist perspective.
I have seen EVE grow from strength to strength since 2004 and seen it stagnate for quite a while now, it needs to go in another direction while keeping spacefaring pew pew alive if it wants to rival the big boys. Evolution of space gaming.
Eve will always be a space game simulator first and foremost and so perhaps there is a need to balance the resources and doing things without skipping or stopping what was PROMISED earlier on i.e. WiS. Of course, there is much to do yet in the scheme of things that doesn't make quite sense or broken. Same old missions for years on end (where are the dynamics?), broken COSMOS, static null sec interaction and mechanics, horrid sounds, and of course my biggest gripe, FIX THE MOA.
So in short, CCP must deliver Incarna 2.0 and not go off on another tangent (useless 1000USD apparell) unless the tangent includes even newer directions in gaming as a part of it. I am aware that it will take ages but EvE has no rival like it, many tried and many more will try but wont come close therefore the spaceballs is in your station! |
Claudia Ishtar
Gemini Talon Takahashi Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 14:36:00 -
[485] - Quote
My concern is that im a capsuleer. Id not mind being able to leave the cq and go meet agents in stations but to leave my ship and poke around in dangerous space when I've never held a gun ? No. however that's why I'd hire dust Mercs. |
Anne-Louise Chasse
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
40
|
Posted - 2012.12.30 15:04:00 -
[486] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Flamespar wrote:CCP should enable the multiplayer establishments as an opt in beta in preparation for this awesome exploration stuff Dude's emoting each other in a pretend-bar is frivolous, useless and generally a stupid way to squander resources, you don't even need to test it lol.
Well there are lots of MMO with avatars and where everything goes. Surely among hundreds of video games could be a few game mechanics that are compatible with the spirit of EVE and are neither Second Life or World of Warcraft or Planetside 2. In fact, certain that CCP has people thinking this kind of thing for WoD, I do not think that they lack human resources to come up with something better than a FPS.
And if new game mechanics fails, you can always take existing mechanics and transfer them to the avatars.
There are mechanics running through the ships and mechanics running through a GUI, you can use the avatars as a very sophisticated GUI or provide them with their own mechanics, or anything in between.
And preferably without trying to make us believe that garbage about immortal guys go out of their capsule and their powrful ships to shoot like assholes to get a couple of trophies in an abandoned station. There's no way that would work, if the reward is high have all the DUST fans camping sites and taking everything, and if is not as good as what you can do on a ship no one will use it. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight
44
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 21:19:00 -
[487] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Flamespar wrote:CCP should enable the multiplayer establishments as an opt in beta in preparation for this awesome exploration stuff Dude's emoting each other in a pretend-bar is frivolous, useless and generally a stupid way to squander resources, you don't even need to test it lol.
I actually envision a lot of compelling in-station avatar interactions...
'Throwing down the gauntlet':
Walking up to someone in a station, slapping them with a '1v1 gauntlet' you purchased, and dropping it on the floor for him to pick up. Only he can pick it up, resulting in a 15 minute limited engagement being activated
OR
'Tea isn't just for breakfast anymore':
Being able to tea-bag someones medical clone laying in a stasis tray for 1 minute after he has just been podded by you...
OR
......
Killboard |
Aulus Marius Azaph
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 21:32:00 -
[488] - Quote
Claudia Ishtar wrote:My concern is that im a capsuleer. Id not mind being able to leave the cq and go meet agents in stations but to leave my ship and poke around in dangerous space when I've never held a gun ? No. however that's why I'd hire dust Mercs.
I'd love to see this type of exploration as a DUST 514 option.
|
Jane Schereau
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 21:59:00 -
[489] - Quote
We are capsuleers, CCP. We pilot spaceships better than any crew can. Our power is our minds, not our bodies.
That said, while the concept is interesting, it goes against capsuleers' natural abilities. Abilities which go away when we are not in our ships.
WiS could have been a nice concept purely for the fun of socializing, but there could have been no gameplay value to it. That is why it failed. This will go the same way, as surely, we would have to learn EVA skills (combat and otherwise). It just won't work, not only for the difficulty of integrating it into the game, but also because it is not going to be well received by the playerbase.
Now, DUST mercs living in your ship and being able to do this, that would be cool. As would be dust mercs boarding other players' ships and killing their clone (but fighting other mercs in that ship before getting to it). Have a merc clone bay module that could be added to our ships. |
Beta Miner
COBRA Logistics Outer-Haven
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 06:16:00 -
[490] - Quote
Jane Schereau wrote: ... but also because it is not going to be well received by the playerbase.
I'll have to challenge you there, at the time of my post this thread has received 487 replies (primarily positive) 18,889 views and 1208 likes ... i think the player base would receive avatar gameplay very well. I know I will.
AFK Cloaking? An afk cloaker has never ganked me. In fact a cloaker at his keybourd has never ganked me either.
|
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Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari The Unthinkables
81
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 17:12:00 -
[491] - Quote
I hope this becomes reality, I think leaving the ship in a environmental suit in ancient ruins or derelict space craft would be fun. Keep working on this, I will love it at least. Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire |
Nick Asir
Triple Helix Corporation
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 19:46:00 -
[492] - Quote
I am very curious as to how many shots it will take to down someone on average. Does the eve universe have personal shields? |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
325
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 20:08:00 -
[493] - Quote
Jane Schereau wrote:WiS could have been a nice concept purely for the fun of socializing, but there could have been no gameplay value to it. That is why it failed.
Actually, it failed because they didn't even deliver that.
One of the things that perpetually amuses me about these discussions is that when ships are concerned, everyone cries "sandbox! player-driven! metagame!" with calls to keep the non-player-driven aspects of the game as background and scorn for PVE. But as soon as you start talking about avatars, the same social interaction that has reshaped nullsec suddenly becomes "emoting barbies" and PVE becomes the great savior of the game play.
If you don't know what social PVP is, or if you think it's funny, talk to a diplomat or a politician. You don't need weapons to topple aliances. Just ask the CFC. Just putting avatars together helps bring the metagame into the game. Since any bittervet will tell you that there is no game in EVE, only metagame, I don't see why this is such a hard thing for people to understand. Maybe it's because the metagame has always taken place in third-party software and the game client is only fired up at the implementation stage (if then), and it's hard to get past that paradigm? Or maybe socials are so deeply distrusted (in a massively multiplayer anything, that's hilarious) that the instinct is to deny them free play on the grounds that it will offend someone else's sensibilities?
I'm not pooh-poohing the idea of explicit gameplay, but it should be a backdrop, a pretense, for actual players to interact in a sandbox. I don't need ~ruins~ to have a tense negotiation with a pirate. I can do that anywhere, though the seedier and more dangerous the environment, the better. On the other side of the coin, I'd also prefer a virtual environment to chat, or out-of-game voice comms, whenever possible. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
224
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 20:27:00 -
[494] - Quote
Nick Asir wrote:I am very curious as to how many shots it will take to down someone on average. Does the eve universe have personal shields? Yes, and armour reports. The DUST suits work like the ships in that sense.
I really want to see where all this can lead. Imagine if part of Jove space gets opened up and we can harvest implant parts from their derelict labs... MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
731
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 20:55:00 -
[495] - Quote
Guys from CCP i wish you all best i hope you do somthing big a big extended feature that people enyoj for years, not like somthing caled wis, you promise a lot to us... and nothing was done, i hope you wont fail like with WIS.
TO much talk ;( i cant resist to this therads, a lot of talk, no progres, do somthing, i know its prototype but ... eh i spent to much time in EvE, im exousted from promises.
less people want more they happy, less promises less disappointed, dont promise to us somthing that is big unknow. EvE isn't game, its style of living. |
Nick Asir
Triple Helix Corporation
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 21:11:00 -
[496] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote: Yes, and armour reports. The DUST suits work like the ships in that sense.
I hope that when you are unarmored in stations you can kill with one or two shots. Lots of possibilities. Of course concord would disarm in most places. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4988
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 22:42:00 -
[497] - Quote
Not this thread topic again.
WiS / Avatar gameplay developement - First it's on, then it's off, then it's on again, then it's back off again, etc, etc. WTF?
It's like watching the Energizer Bunny, it just keeps going..........and going..........and going..........
CCP starts this thread praising their ideas and concepts for Avatar gameplay, does quite a bit of replies within the first few pages which slows down to their last post on page 10 without actually showing or divulging any detailed information.
How ironic albeit typical.
Just some more 'Promises In The Dark'.
DMC |
Flamespar
Woof Club
518
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 00:54:00 -
[498] - Quote
Hey everyone
The CSM is asking for input for the theme of the next expansion. Link
I suggest that those of you who would like to see something happen in the avatar realm should go over there and make your voice heard. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
2515
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 01:03:00 -
[499] - Quote
Sounds interesting. Some concerns I have:
1) The OP reads as if there might be some limiting factors to how players gain access to abandoned structures. I'm specifically thinking of the idea that "a second team" might get in. What about some lone wolf guy who has been sitting in a dark corner for an hour, waiting for a team to come wandering through so that he can gank them?
2) Walk in station...if my enemy leaves his CQ, can I hunt and kill him in the station? I'm very concerned that CCP might make this into the first "safe place" in Eve, or have it behave too much like instances in other games. Neither is a good thing.
3) What happens to the ships of the guys I killed in the exploration site? Do I get to load them up into my orca and fly away? Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
586
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 01:11:00 -
[500] - Quote
Be mindful that this is a very old thread guys. CCP have already stated that they have stopped all prototype work on avatar gamplay. Why i play EVE:-á20% for gameplay experience, 30% for the social aspect and 50% because of CCPGÇÖs empty promises.-á |
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
2515
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 01:22:00 -
[501] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Be mindful that this is a very old thread guys. CCP have already stated that they have stopped all prototype work on avatar gamplay. Death to the mecromancer who revived it!
I'd like to see more avatar content, but only if it presents me with new and creative ways to kill people. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
586
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 01:41:00 -
[502] - Quote
You and me both mate Why i play EVE:-á20% for gameplay experience, 30% for the social aspect and 50% because of CCPGÇÖs empty promises.-á |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops THE ROYAL NAVY
1143
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 05:55:00 -
[503] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: I'd like to see more avatar content, but only if it presents me with new and creative ways to kill people.
I know, me to. Unfortunately, this is just another project CCP has raised our hopes up with and then dashed them. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
224
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 06:51:00 -
[504] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Hey everyone The CSM is asking for input for the theme of the next expansion. LinkI suggest that those of you who would like to see something happen in the avatar realm should go over there and make your voice heard. Thats not a theme, thats a feature.
As explained in the minutes:
Apochrypha's theme was wormholes. A new set of 2500 wormhole systems was added, along with unique industry, harvesting, PvE and PvP opportunities. Not to mention a new mechanic and a totally new set of ships.
By the same token, a new theme to utilise "Walking in Wrecks" could be opening a portion of abandoned Jove space. By looting the derelict labs, ruins and ships we could harvest new materials for the creation of implants, (including new implants whcih could even have mixed bonuses,) drugs and rigs. There could be a different transit system in Jove space, (limiting ship sizes and mass loads per hour perhaps in different areas,) forcing smaller gangs to roam around rather than blobs. Ring mining could be introduced using new technology found there, because the Jove used up all the mineral wealth of their own moons centuries ago...
CCP would then be able to iterate on that and add more content down the line, like WiS and maybe even allowing us to own casino's and bars in stations. (I suggesst bar's be used as a black market as well as a job hunting loaction.)
Thats a theme. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
599
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 06:58:00 -
[505] - Quote
Given that the current mechanics behind the avatars are such a heavy strain on peoples computers, wouldn't it be prudent to scrap Carbon and remake a new avatar system that won't melt video cards? Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Heavy Industries Sick N' Twisted
224
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 07:18:00 -
[506] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Given that the current mechanics behind the avatars are such a heavy strain on peoples computers, wouldn't it be prudent to scrap Carbon and remake a new avatar system that won't melt video cards? ..or they could be working on why it's so demanding and reducing that need. Rather than investing a ton of cash into yet another system. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Raw Matters
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 09:21:00 -
[507] - Quote
I totally like the idea of out-of-the-ship gameplay (if it doesn't get too excessive, it's a space game after all), there are however several challenges I see at the horizont:
- Whats going to happen to your ship? You obviously have to leave it behind, and can't detect whether you've been spotted by other players and most likely can't get back to it in time before it is stolen/destroyed. There should be some mechanics to prevent the loss of ship just because I am stuck inside a structure.
- The current avatar engine is plain bad. It lags, it challenges my graphics card, the controls are slow and jerky, the over-the-shoulder view is annoying and the interaction with the environment difficult. If you want this to be successful, you first need a solid engine to deliver that properly. I don't know how your dust-engine works out for this, but the current station-engine just plain sucks in every aspect.
- Exploration currently isn't really delivering the fun it should be. This is because for once the Eve engine is not capable of delivering content outside the downtime, so if you do have a job and log on 18+ Eve time, there isn't much left to explore anymore. This is especially annoying if you actually take the risk and venture to low-sec or 0.0 just to realize that you took all the risk for nothing. In addition the hand full of very static sites don't really feel like I am actually exploring something, just because I know all these site already out of my hat.
- In addition the recent drone change - which was a major failure and I just can't say it often enough - gave a hard hit to all explorers. Ships using drones were one of the few reasonable setups for exploring, as you need to stack so many modules to be able to actually take the site, that you basically have 1-2 weapons left and nothing to boost them. Drone-boats were performing well for exploration until the AI started targeting drones, but since you have no space left to keep them on you and your tank, all you can do currently is to take a huge stack of extra drones with you. But considering the price, that pretty much rendered exploration in high-sec unprofitable. |
Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
600
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 09:25:00 -
[508] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Cyprus Black wrote:Given that the current mechanics behind the avatars are such a heavy strain on peoples computers, wouldn't it be prudent to scrap Carbon and remake a new avatar system that won't melt video cards? ..or they could be working on why it's so demanding and reducing that need. Rather than investing a ton of cash into yet another system. But.... that would make sense. Surely things that make sense are banished from the CCP offices.
I joke.
Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
Alice Saki
28103
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 09:37:00 -
[509] - Quote
If it melts your computer, your computer sucks <3 All My Friends Are leaving me :( |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
979
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 10:43:00 -
[510] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: I'd like to see more avatar content, but only if it presents me with new and creative ways to kill people.
I know, me to. Unfortunately, this is just another project CCP has raised our hopes up with and then dashed them.
Be carefull ,otherwise you get as pessimistic on this as i am.
R.S.I2014
|
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
364
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 11:50:00 -
[511] - Quote
CCP can always sell this prototype to Maxis, so they could do Sims in space. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops THE ROYAL NAVY
1146
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 13:21:00 -
[512] - Quote
I have posted in the CSM's thread, where they are asking for idea on what should go into the next expansion. Please post in there in support of Team Avatar's exploration idea. I think that's something everyone can get behind and enjoy.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=195133
Time to pull out all the stops. Show CCP how much we want it. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3695
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 13:47:00 -
[513] - Quote
Arduemont wrote: Time to pull out all the stops. Show CCP how much we want it.
This kind of stop?
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
979
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 13:57:00 -
[514] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I have posted in the CSM's thread, where they are asking for idea on what should go into the next expansion. Please post in there in support of Team Avatar's exploration idea. I think that's something everyone can get behind and enjoy.https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=195133Time to pull out all the stops. Show CCP how much we want it.
I don,t trust the CSM , sorry for that!! The CSM is useless ,they can cry all they want,but CCP will keep up to their own agenda. CCP changing plans without even inform the CSM ,made me clear ,that the CSM is nothing more then an expansive marketing tool. Better disband the CSM and hire a dev or two more. R.S.I2014
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Faulx
Brother Fox Corp
114
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 11:33:00 -
[515] - Quote
I submitted a story to the Pod and Planet Fiction Contest (now completed) which specifically envisioned this type of content. I'd certainly love to see it go live. |
Naes Mlahrend
KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
39
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 08:30:00 -
[516] - Quote
I definitely like the idea of gallivanting through stations but I could give or take any FP or 3P shooting. Just to be able to head to Jovian space or stations surrounding the Eve Gate and explore what happened in the beginning would make me happy. Being able to partake in the Gallente entertainment hubs with other Eve folk would be awesome.
|
Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
270
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 09:42:00 -
[517] - Quote
Make some kind of bottleneck resource you actively have to send your clone down to a certain kind of planet and manage, and while the clone is down there, they are completely vulneratble to that dust-like orbital bombardment mechanic, allowing others to land and steal that **** for themselves.
Basically find a way to make every celestial in nullsec a liability, while also turning nullsec pos shoots into planet shoots.
The war with TEST would have happened if GSF could have hot-dropped some kind of technetium-pooping factory on a dust planet in Fountain, causing the loss of a bunch of clones, probably with special implants they needed to extract the goo, and also make it so that they lose a skill when they die like with Tengus.
Also, don't change jump clones at all.
Then delete pos as we know it and allow us to just have planets and modular/multiple space stations
But don't integrate dust with any of these terrible ideas, it will ruin the experience.
Basically I want some logistics guys' life to be even worse and I want you to make the game more like Warhammer 40k so my fantasies of executing exterminatus on pubbie swine something that's more enjoyable than jumping through hoops to do it to DUST players. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
980
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 17:57:00 -
[518] - Quote
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:Make some kind of bottleneck resource you actively have to send your clone down to a certain kind of planet and manage, and while the clone is down there, they are completely vulneratble to that dust-like orbital bombardment mechanic, allowing others to land and steal that **** for themselves.
Basically find a way to make every celestial in nullsec a liability, while also turning nullsec pos shoots into planet shoots.
The war with TEST would have happened if GSF could have hot-dropped some kind of technetium-pooping factory on a dust planet in Fountain, causing the loss of a bunch of clones, probably with special implants they needed to extract the goo, and also make it so that they lose a skill when they die like with Tengus. - not true but still
Also, don't change jump clones at all.
Then delete pos as we know it and allow us to just have planets and modular/multiple space stations
But don't integrate dust with any of these terrible ideas, it will ruin the experience.
Basically I want some logistics guys' life to be even worse and I want you to make the game more like Warhammer 40k so my fantasies of executing exterminatus on pubbie swine something that's more enjoyable than jumping through hoops to do it to DUST players.
2 ideas that CCP suggested and hyped up the community in 1 reply +1 for that
CCP dev 1 : lets throw them a bone and laugh reading the idiotic responses afterwards
CCP dev 2 : lets do it ,but not for long ,our Sony overlords are impatient
CCP dev 3: Do we have to discuss that stuff on the forums?
CCP dev 1 : nah wait until Fanfest ,they will be too drunk to listen anyway ,is much easier.
CCP dev 2: let us make 1 minute presentation about it ,those morons will love it and forget about .
CCP dev 3: i guess ,you are right ,lets do that stuff by giving them hope about Poses and WIS.
CCP dev 4: should we tell something about DX11?
CCP manager : are you mad??????
R.S.I2014
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
129
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 18:23:00 -
[519] - Quote
Quote:CCP dev 4: should we tell something about DX11?
CCP manager : are you mad??????
But they have made tessellation demo, one in the long line of demos: atmospheric flight demo, wis demo, avatar exploration demo... Inside mining barge, true story |
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
150
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 18:44:00 -
[520] - Quote
I suddenly realised, CCP may be holding out on WIS because current graphics cards are not powerful enough (or EVE players have crappy hardware) [PROPOSAL] INGAME ADVERTS FOR PLAYERS |
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
405
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 18:57:00 -
[521] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Sounds interesting. Some concerns I have:
1) The OP reads as if there might be some limiting factors to how players gain access to abandoned structures. I'm specifically thinking of the idea that "a second team" might get in. What about some lone wolf guy who has been sitting in a dark corner for an hour, waiting for a team to come wandering through so that he can gank them?
Assuming that you can find a dark corner where you can stay alive for an hour, I don't see why not. It would certainly augment the survival horror angle of that gameplay. ("We're trapped in an irradiated ruin with a homicidal clown!")
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:2) Walk in station...if my enemy leaves his CQ, can I hunt and kill him in the station? I'm very concerned that CCP might make this into the first "safe place" in Eve, or have it behave too much like instances in other games. Neither is a good thing.
Yes, the fact that the CQ is instanced, and not content in any meaningful sense of the word, is not a good thing.
I imagine that it would work out like it does in space, where high sec stations would enforce consequences but prevent nothing, lowsec stations would go after you if you committed a crime right in front of them and forget you as soon as you left their sensor range, and any safety would be in numbers (because losses would be far less serious with no ship exploding), in friends, and in self-defense to the extent that it's possible.
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:3) What happens to the ships of the guys I killed in the exploration site? Do I get to load them up into my orca and fly away?
That's a very interesting question, and I wouldn't mind knowing the answer as well. Unfortunately, it might be years before we get an answer. I have a feeling that the more serious the consequences are, the greater the likelihood that you'll be weighing the value of loading rookie ships into your Orca. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Whitehound
451
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 11:28:00 -
[522] - Quote
It is not for me. I won't even try it. Space and spaceships is what fascinates me. I won't crawl around in dark places. If I want to get away from spaceships then I play a different game, and I don't.
CCP Bayesian wrote:The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few. I do not know all these references, but those I do know do not sound any good to me. In Alien did most of the people die and the rest got out with only their clothes on their skin. I cannot recall much on Event Horizon, but I believe it, too, was rather deadly and unrewarding for anyone who survived. I don't know if anyone survived at all, but what I remember is that it was mostly a horror trip for those onboard the ship. The cleanup of Chernobyl is a weird reference. Many people died and sacrificed their lives for others. I have strong doubts the reactor was worth it. I find it sad. All I remember on Moonbase Alpha is it was a Sci-Fi series in the 70s or 80s. It probably gave me nightmares back then *lol*. Frankly, none of these references help.
I still wish you would make all this available to DUST514 players and to make DUST514 more successful by setting it further apart from other FPS shooters. I would rather haul some mercs of a planet and drop them of at a site in space than to crawl around in it myself. ... I want to fly!
Anyhow, I wish you good luck with your Avatar program and I hope you can find players who will enjoy it more than I ever will. Inappropriate signature removed. - The Pope, BBC, CIA and CCP, but not Chuck Norris! |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
16
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 12:38:00 -
[523] - Quote
Don't really know what this is about, but it sounds good!
What's always puzzled me is, if I can't leave my quarters, how do I get into my ship? |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
130
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 12:47:00 -
[524] - Quote
I wouldn't call EVE a game about flying. I would say, that EVE have point and click game mechanism with spaceships in the place of avatars, in unrealistic physically enviroment, it's also griefing, scamming, grinding simulator, with pvp based on sheer numbers and ocasionally luck. I played real simulators where you can fly, also in space and there it was fun to do. Inside mining barge, true story |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1198
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 14:18:00 -
[525] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:I wouldn't call EVE a game about flying. I would say, that EVE have point and click game mechanism with spaceships in the place of avatars, in unrealistic physically enviroment, it's also griefing, scamming, grinding simulator, with pvp based on sheer numbers and ocasionally luck. I played real simulators where you can fly, also in space and there it was fun to do.
EVE isn't about piloting ships, it's about "Captaining" ships. Adama, Picard, Kirk etc etc didn't use joysticks either...
|
luZk
x13 Whores in space
91
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 15:15:00 -
[526] - Quote
I like it! |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
878
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 15:27:00 -
[527] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Don't really know what this is about, but it sounds good!
What's always puzzled me is, if I can't leave my quarters, how do I get into my ship?
Walk to the end of the balcony, left or right is a egg shaped 'pod'. You get into that, it closes, you get plugged in, a station device picks you up and inserts you in your egg into your ship.
Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
130
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 15:53:00 -
[528] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:I wouldn't call EVE a game about flying. I would say, that EVE have point and click game mechanism with spaceships in the place of avatars, in unrealistic physically enviroment, it's also griefing, scamming, grinding simulator, with pvp based on sheer numbers and ocasionally luck. I played real simulators where you can fly, also in space and there it was fun to do. EVE isn't about piloting ships, it's about "Captaining" ships. Adama, Picard, Kirk etc etc didn't use joysticks either...
I am not feeling like I am a captain on the ship in EVE, i feel like the ship is just me and thats all. I don't have to interact with others on the ship. It's plain experience to fly solo and do missions in EVE. You have to make something else simultanously.
For me flying (in space or everywhere else) means piloting, steady hand, unpredictable maneuvers, coordination, lore of the machine and efficiency in using all this to your advantage. Decision making can be left to emperor and his staff who stay in death star and watch everything on the monitors. It would be folish for them to go into fight. Inside mining barge, true story |
SoOza N'GasZ
Geese Jugglers
37
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 18:40:00 -
[529] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Back at the end of February CCP t0rfifrans announced Team Avatar and that one of our priorities was prototyping, specifically to: "...create playable gameplay prototypes of gameplay features and try them out within the team, and within the company... The purpose of all this prototyping is to make sure we provide a strong vision for avatar gameplay, have a good demonstrable idea of why it is engaging and better understand the technology we will need to create in order to make it a reality." The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information! Extra-Vehicular Activity, Wrecks and ExplorationThere has been an idea kicking around CCP for a long time now about an ideal starting point for avatar gameplay. That is exploring hazardous environments in order to get awesome stuff. Think scanning down a site before entering it in order to find and salvage artifacts, technology and other goodies. Sounds straightforward and it would be but for the dangerous nature of delving into long lost places where time has taken its toll on the structure and the previous owners may not have left things in a benign state. In true EVE style throw in the added dangers of lurking competition and things have a chance to go south fast. The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few. Over three months we concentrated on the minute by minute gameplay of actually being inside a long abandoned structure, the hazards that it would contain and how the players might deal with them and any uninvited guests. We used the Unity engine which is a great game engine for prototyping in as it lets us create environments and gameplay very, very fast and iterate on it equally quickly. A lot of our art is much more abstract (a "grey box") than youGÇÖd see in a final game. This is due to us concentrating on the gameplay first and foremost whilst also recognizing that ambience plays an important role in how a game feels. We do throw in the occasional EVE asset here and there for flavor but those are not descriptive of any final theming or style. The gameplay premise is simple, players move through our abandoned structures with their fitted Extra-Vehicular Activity suit, using their wits, tools and teammates to deal with the hazardous environment. Some of us are enthusiastically and maliciously killing teammates for personal gain. WeGÇÖve even allowed two teams into the environment to really let all hell break loose. ItGÇÖs a part of the EVE UniverseThere have been a lot of questions on the forums about how this integrates with EVE. Whilst this isnGÇÖt the core focus for us at the moment it is something we are thinking about long and hard. Like DUST514, this part of EVE should contribute to the overall economy as well as supporting its own ecosystem. Right now weGÇÖre thinking that these abandoned structures are so dangerous, radioactive and toxic, that they can only be entered with special suits. Obviously with access to clones you arenGÇÖt worried about radiation and long term health effects of hazardous lifestyles. You probably all smoke and eat lots of bacon as well and besides robots wonGÇÖt survive the violent EM fields. Robot electronics would toast, thus only teams using gear that involves crude electronics, like found in EM resistant military hardware can go in and recover the technology that lies within. One example of a link with EVE gameplay weGÇÖre thinking of would be to put implant manufacture into the hands of players and making avatar gameplay part of the resource gathering chain it has. We want to make Avatar gameplay a viable and vibrant part of the Universe without forcing anyone that doesnGÇÖt want to use it from having to use it. A benefit from the EVA game is that a lot of the technology that would need to be developed to properly deliver the EVA experience would be directly useful in providing social areas and tools in stations. That just sounds like one idea...We decided to concentrate in depth on the one idea that has kept resurfacing from lots of different places within the company. WeGÇÖve had several others and collected a lot both internally and from the forums. One example would be a Station based espionage system. The beauty of the EVE Universe is that these ideas arenGÇÖt mutually exclusive for the most part. So whilst I think we are fairly sure of the initial gameplay direction there is lots of scope for expansion.
Thank you god. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
501
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 18:45:00 -
[530] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:I wouldn't call EVE a game about flying. I would say, that EVE have point and click game mechanism with spaceships in the place of avatars, in unrealistic physically enviroment, it's also griefing, scamming, grinding simulator, with pvp based on sheer numbers and ocasionally luck. I played real simulators where you can fly, also in space and there it was fun to do. EVE isn't about piloting ships, it's about "Captaining" ships. Adama, Picard, Kirk etc etc didn't use joysticks either... I am not feeling like I am a captain on the ship in EVE, i feel like the ship is just me
That's what we are, thx to pod tech. And if you wonder why we don't do it the old fashioned way? look at NPCs. Now you know why. wumbo |
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Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
121
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 21:31:00 -
[531] - Quote
It's a terrible, terrible idea and all avatar plans beyond maybe a poker minigame for us to gamble ISK on or something should be abandoned. No MMO has ever been successful at splitting the game between vehicles and avatars without at least one of those (and usually both) being very sub-par. Look at Pirates of The Burning Sea and Star Trek Online reviews that mention the on-foot game if you want to see what Eve reviews will look like if you do this. Please save yourself the lost subscriptions and me the trouble of being forced to play Darkfall and give up on this silly idea while you still can.
Edit: Where's Mittens? We need Jita burned again. |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 21:39:00 -
[532] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:It's a terrible, terrible idea and all avatar plans beyond maybe a poker minigame for us to gamble ISK on or something should be abandoned. No MMO has ever been successful at splitting the game between vehicles and avatars without at least one of those (and usually both) being very sub-par. Look at Pirates of The Burning Sea and Star Trek Online reviews that mention the on-foot game if you want to see what Eve reviews will look like if you do this. Please save yourself the lost subscriptions and me the trouble of being forced to play Darkfall and give up on this silly idea while you still can.
Edit: Where's Mittens? We need Jita burned again.
Umm... this is a dead subject. Burn Jita (again) over something that has been shelved?
-á |
Arduemont
Tempest Legion Corcoran State
1238
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 21:45:00 -
[533] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote:It's a terrible, terrible idea and all avatar plans beyond maybe a poker minigame for us to gamble ISK on or something should be abandoned. No MMO has ever been successful at splitting the game between vehicles and avatars without at least one of those (and usually both) being very sub-par. Look at Pirates of The Burning Sea and Star Trek Online reviews that mention the on-foot game if you want to see what Eve reviews will look like if you do this. Please save yourself the lost subscriptions and me the trouble of being forced to play Darkfall and give up on this silly idea while you still can.
Edit: Where's Mittens? We need Jita burned again.
Yea, no game has ever successfully done it. Except Grand Theft Auto, and Planetside 2, the Battlefield series, etc etc etc etc.
Yea.... No. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
536
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 21:58:00 -
[534] - Quote
The Jita riots weren't just about WiS. They were caused by people frustrated with the ridiculous pricing of the NEX store, the attitudes displayed by CCP leadership at the time, and the view that the underwhelming CQ was all we were going to be getting after being promised so much more out of Station Walking/Meat Spinning. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 22:02:00 -
[535] - Quote
Nvm didn't check the date on the OP |
Arduemont
Tempest Legion Corcoran State
1241
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 05:55:00 -
[536] - Quote
Whim Aqayn wrote:Nvm didn't check the date on the OP
Yea, it's pretty disconcerting. I wish we would actually get an update on this. One of the CSM chaps recently said that the theme for the next patch was "exploration", which gave me a faint glimmer of hope, but not much more than that. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Dasquirrel715
Universalis Imperium Tactical Narcotics Team
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 07:26:00 -
[537] - Quote
Old thread, but honestly, as much as WiS has taken a huge hit recently, I would rather see player owned bars and social spaces added first. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
125
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 10:10:00 -
[538] - Quote
Rees Noturana wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:It's a terrible, terrible idea and all avatar plans beyond maybe a poker minigame for us to gamble ISK on or something should be abandoned. No MMO has ever been successful at splitting the game between vehicles and avatars without at least one of those (and usually both) being very sub-par. Look at Pirates of The Burning Sea and Star Trek Online reviews that mention the on-foot game if you want to see what Eve reviews will look like if you do this. Please save yourself the lost subscriptions and me the trouble of being forced to play Darkfall and give up on this silly idea while you still can.
Edit: Where's Mittens? We need Jita burned again. Umm... this is a dead subject. Burn Jita (again) over something that has been shelved? Doh! My bad. Saw it on the first page of GD and assumed it was new.
Arduemont wrote:Joran Dravius wrote:It's a terrible, terrible idea and all avatar plans beyond maybe a poker minigame for us to gamble ISK on or something should be abandoned. No MMO has ever been successful at splitting the game between vehicles and avatars without at least one of those (and usually both) being very sub-par. Look at Pirates of The Burning Sea and Star Trek Online reviews that mention the on-foot game if you want to see what Eve reviews will look like if you do this. Please save yourself the lost subscriptions and me the trouble of being forced to play Darkfall and give up on this silly idea while you still can.
Edit: Where's Mittens? We need Jita burned again. Yea, no game has ever successfully done it. Except Grand Theft Auto, and Planetside 1 & 2, the Battlefield series, OFP, ARMA 1&2 and soon 3, etc etc etc etc. Yea.... No. And none of those was an MMORPG. All of them were shooters. |
Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
197
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 10:38:00 -
[539] - Quote
It's just such a missed opportunity. So much time invested, the tech works, the art exists. All we'd need are some interior enviroments, gambling for ISK and a couple of shady lit bars.
I'd pay real money to play Poker/Pazaak for hours while staring out of the window at Jita 4-4 and see the undocks and ganks happen. Pain is short, and joy is eternal. |
Evandra
Surfer des Sandwurms
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 11:03:00 -
[540] - Quote
hopefully team avatar gets reassembled soon...i'd really like avatar stuff within eve - that i can play. the concept talked about here sounds like what WiS should have been from the start...so either that make that or make dust for PC also...not going to play a shooter on a console, ever! |
|
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
261
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 11:19:00 -
[541] - Quote
I'd really love nothing more than to see some WiS progress as well (I mean a small, capable team working in the background on it, with no public demos or release dates to screw things up like Incarna.
That said, this new idea in the OP is way too much fluff... I mean, corp meeting rooms, public stations where you can walk around and go to a bar, and a poker room/minigames/gambling stuff. That's all that's needed for WiS. Introduce those features and wrap it up. Maybe a few years down the line add some shinies like ship bridges or visiting with the Dusties, but we don't need actual avatar gameplay. |
Destarsee Flamesword
Hessian Industries
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 11:19:00 -
[542] - Quote
i want to find a pleasure hub now |
Arduemont
Tempest Legion Corcoran State
1243
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 14:38:00 -
[543] - Quote
Joran Dravius wrote: I didn't say "no game", did I? I said "no MMO". Only one of those is an MMO at all and it's not a MMORPG like Eve, it's a MMOFPS. I probably should have added the 'RPG' part to "MMO", but I assumed it would be obvious what kind of MMO I meant because of the examples I used.
Actually a fair few of those examples I gave had MMO components. Server on ARMA I and II as well as OFP often had sever hundred people online at any one time and they were incredibly popular games. ARMA II of course is the source of the War Z mod which is incredibly popular. Alongside ARMA III, Bohemia are making a dedicated War Z game which is rumoured to be having massive dedicated public servers being developed. Anyway, trying to make a distinction between MMORPGs and MMOFPSes doesn't help your case because the Avatar exploration would be an over the shoulder shooter. Which makes it closer to an MMOFPS than your traditional MMORPG. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1078
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 20:53:00 -
[544] - Quote
I just want to point out that WiS is shelved and so it really doesn't matters what we say about the coulda, shoulda, woulda of WiS.
EVE will live or die solely on FiS. There is no hope of a *better* EVE and not even a *different* EVE.
If you like EVE, take it as is.
If you don't like it as is, go play something else. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
yer mammy
Derp Inc
60
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 20:55:00 -
[545] - Quote
can i be the mascot for team avatar? |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
538
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 20:57:00 -
[546] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I just want to point out that WiS is shelved and so it really doesn't matters what we say about the coulda, shoulda, woulda of WiS.
EVE will live or die solely on FiS. There is no hope of a *better* EVE and not even a *different* EVE.
If you like EVE, take it as is.
If you don't like it as is, go play something else.
CCP should never aspire for EVE to be more than it is now.
You sound just like the conservatives in my country. "If you hate being treated like crap so much, why don't you just move?" Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Zombie132
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 22:50:00 -
[547] - Quote
This sounds great!
My only concern is that it turns into another WiS or Atmospheric Flight - announced, demo'd at fanfest, then shelved. I'm looking forward to playing this, but I'm also trying not to get my hopes up. |
Destarsee Flamesword
Hessian Industries
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 09:22:00 -
[548] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Joran Dravius wrote: I didn't say "no game", did I? I said "no MMO". Only one of those is an MMO at all and it's not a MMORPG like Eve, it's a MMOFPS. I probably should have added the 'RPG' part to "MMO", but I assumed it would be obvious what kind of MMO I meant because of the examples I used.
Actually a fair few of those examples I gave had MMO components. Server on ARMA I and II as well as OFP often had sever hundred people online at any one time and they were incredibly popular games. ARMA II of course is the source of the War Z mod which is incredibly popular. Alongside ARMA III, Bohemia are making a dedicated War Z game which is rumoured to be having massive dedicated public servers being developed. Anyway, trying to make a distinction between MMORPGs and MMOFPSes doesn't help your case because the Avatar exploration would be an over the shoulder shooter. Which makes it closer to an MMOFPS than your traditional MMORPG.
you are right with most parts. except its called DayZ. WarZ is a copy of the mod that some guy had made in a game called War-Inc. Dont buy WarZ. its **** in comparison to DayZ. |
RAP ACTION HERO
162
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 10:05:00 -
[549] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I just want to point out that WiS is shelved and so it really doesn't matters what we say about the coulda, shoulda, woulda of WiS.
EVE will live or die solely on FiS. There is no hope of a *better* EVE and not even a *different* EVE.
If you like EVE, take it as is.
If you don't like it as is, go play something else. christ can't you just stay unsubbed or at least not make those cheesy goodbye posts. vitoc erryday |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
296
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 10:16:00 -
[550] - Quote
Zombie132 wrote:This sounds great!
My only concern is that it turns into another WiS or Atmospheric Flight - announced, demo'd at fanfest, then shelved. I'm looking forward to playing this, but I'm also trying not to get my hopes up.
They cannot work on it now. They're busy in AFTERBURNER REBALANCING, the theme of the next 2 expansions (called Need for Speed I and II).
Summer expansion will be about rebalancing T1 Afterburner, they'll work in the next months to increase their speed bonus of a roughly +0,1%.
Winter expansion 2014 will care for T2 and faction Afterburner in the same way.
As we know afterbruners modules for spaceships are very advanced devices so all the CCP aerospace researchers, scientists and engeneers are focused on this and cannot waste resources on anything else.
We are all excited for this AB rebalancing and can't wait the fanfest to have mroe dettails |
|
Efraya
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
189
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 11:01:00 -
[551] - Quote
I think that it is overwhelmingly clear that the player base wants this. Sounds freaking cool!
WSpace; Best space. |
Tanya Trader
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 11:39:00 -
[552] - Quote
Adoro wrote:An avatar used to be a little picture everybody ignored with the occasional "dude your face". I still treat it that way...
And now to outhipster the Retirement Club attempt hipstering: Walking in Station has been talked about since pre-beta on the old, old, old school forums.
Cry some more |
Xavier Quo
Ashfell Celestial Corporation POD-SQUAD
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 12:06:00 -
[553] - Quote
This sounds amazing, hope you can get something together for fanfest!
Love the idea about the system wormhole effects change the gameplay environment and need to be negated to explore deeper by restoring station systems!
First thing that occured to me is that you don't want the same immersion breaking safety that current WiS has (hopefully in the future station WiS will not be so safe).
in this you are leaving your ship and pod and wandering around an Anokis station so if you get scanned down (you should still be able to get found) there should be some option to be warned with maybe enough time to return and gtfo, or not .
Another way of looking at it is that you, as the all powerful capsuleer, never leaves the ship as you are too integrated with the pod to come out outside a station, but you actually send a small squad of your ship crew who are eminently expendable, who you can control directly or not.
So you could switch between FiS and WiS instantly. The further into the complex your team goes, the longer extraction takes and if you leave them you could lose crew for a module or two (or have a specialised investigative team module and tech, etc). This makes it more interesting with small teams, especially two rival teams on the same station. Two capsuleers wandering around a deserted station taking potshots at each other seems a little dull in comparison.
In the super long term (i.e. soon) you could even recruit dust bunnies to form a team, dial up their consciousnesses to your module of investigative dropsuits and laboratory and direct the whole encounter from the 'safety' of your ship (think Ripley 'helping' Dallas through the Alien airducts) - it would be so much fun even with an AI team, never mind a team of real minions. Come to think of it that scenario is pretty much a hollywood trope now and I can't think of any game that has tried to recreate it really. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1085
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 14:50:00 -
[554] - Quote
Efraya wrote:I think that it is overwhelmingly clear that the player base wants this. Sounds freaking cool!
(Some of) the player base wants what CCP had been marketing since 2006. Which was not what Team Avatar prototyped last year. Which is not going to be developed in any foreseable future and actually doesn't even fits into the stated development strategy of multi-threaded themed expansions instead of single feature focused ones.
Looking at how fast CCP works, the production schedule for something like the dungeon raiding prototype would span well over a year (being optimistic about the art teams) and very likely longer than that if they're supposed to keep iterating broken old stuff. And after that, what we would get would be something even more niche than incursions, and which would not justify the effort at all.
Plus, they (CCP) actively ignored the "baby steps" approach that me and some others advocated (link), which (accidentally) would fit perfectly into the *new* multi-threaded themed expansions by splitting avatar development into small stages rather than a single big and labor intensive feature.
As i said above, WiS is shelved and will stay so for a long time, which in terms of EVE longevity, could equal to "never". EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Cari Cullejen
Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc. Gathering Of Nomadic Explorers
22
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 23:54:00 -
[555] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Efraya wrote:I think that it is overwhelmingly clear that the player base wants this. Sounds freaking cool! (Some of) the player base wants what CCP had been marketing since 2006. Which was not what Team Avatar prototyped last year. Which is not going to be developed in any foreseable future and actually doesn't even fits into the stated development strategy of multi-threaded themed expansions instead of single feature focused ones. Looking at how fast CCP works, the production schedule for something like the dungeon raiding prototype would span well over a year (being optimistic about the art teams) and very likely longer than that if they're supposed to keep iterating broken old stuff. And after that, what we would get would be something even more niche than incursions, and which would not justify the effort at all. Plus, they (CCP) actively ignored the "baby steps" approach that me and some others advocated (link), which (accidentally) would fit perfectly into the *new* multi-threaded themed expansions by splitting avatar development into small stages rather than a single big and labor intensive feature. As i said above, WiS is shelved and will stay so for a long time, which in terms of EVE longevity, could equal to "never".
Quit trying to destroy their hopes, the only thing keeping them from implementing WiS is us. In love with CCP Sunset, and maybe-áCCP t0rfifrans :3 |
Red Teufel
Bloody Sheets
211
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 01:22:00 -
[556] - Quote
if you can't make a walking in stations work then don't post this bull to keep teasing WIS supporters to keep subbing. you might as well add a second galaxy through a wh for us. |
RAP ACTION HERO
163
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 07:23:00 -
[557] - Quote
lol baby steps of let's make the ability to let a bunch of dudes dress up and emote other the top priority. vitoc erryday |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1114
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 09:49:00 -
[558] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:lol baby steps of let's make the ability to let a bunch of dudes dress up and emote other the top priority.
It's better to show commitment and deliver a little, than ignore and deliver nothing. But anyway it's all theoretical now, whatever happens to EVE is going to be without WiS nor anything new and original.
I mean, the most exciting(?) gossip about the Fanfest are the Jove... EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
337
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 11:20:00 -
[559] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:lol baby steps of let's make the ability to let a bunch of dudes dress up and emote other the top priority. This is a fairly common opinion shared in virtually any thread about WiS.
I do have one thing to ask everyone, WiS supporters, haters and 'don't carers' alike.
Is EvE about spaceships, or is it about the sandbox? MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1117
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 11:54:00 -
[560] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:lol baby steps of let's make the ability to let a bunch of dudes dress up and emote other the top priority. This is a fairly common opinion shared in virtually any thread about WiS. I do have one thing to ask everyone, WiS supporters, haters and 'don't carers' alike. Is EvE about spaceships, or is it about the sandbox?
It's about the sandbox and thus giving enough sand and toys for everyone to build their own EVE.
So far it's way easier if you like to spend hours to asplode ships together with other people, and way harder if you play on your own or can't devote a lot of time to it. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1248
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 14:12:00 -
[561] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:lol baby steps of let's make the ability to let a bunch of dudes dress up and emote other the top priority. This is a fairly common opinion shared in virtually any thread about WiS. I do have one thing to ask everyone, WiS supporters, haters and 'don't carers' alike. Is EvE about spaceships, or is it about the sandbox? It's about the sandbox and thus giving enough sand and toys for everyone to build their own EVE. So far it's way easier if you like to spend hours to asplode ships together with other people, and way harder if you play on your own or can't devote a lot of time to it.
This ^^
People regularly say that they don't want their spaceship game changed to include Avatars, but it's really not just a spaceship game at all. May many of the players don't even have to un-dock to cause chaos in the Eve universe. I spent a good amount of time last year running a corporation, and I have just started doing the same again. Many CEOs will know that most of your time is spent talking to people, sending evemails, organising stuff, etc etc. To people who play like this Eve is about the implications of social actions, ie it's about the sandbox. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
432
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 14:15:00 -
[562] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:lol baby steps of let's make the ability to let a bunch of dudes dress up and emote other the top priority. It's better to show commitment and deliver a little, than ignore and deliver nothing.
But showing commitment and deliver a little was exactly what CCP did and what created the entire WiS mess.
They applied a serious amount of development resources and delivered something that had no impact on game play what so ever.
But it did have an impact on 20% of CCP's employees.
I find it unlikely that they will show any more commitment until they have something that actually adds to the game to deliver. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil.
|
RAP ACTION HERO
164
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 17:12:00 -
[563] - Quote
i thought it's been established that a bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other makes dogshite for content, and just lol plain wrong. vitoc erryday |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1248
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 17:33:00 -
[564] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:lol baby steps of let's make the ability to let a bunch of dudes dress up and emote other the top priority. It's better to show commitment and deliver a little, than ignore and deliver nothing. But showing commitment and deliver a little was exactly what CCP did and what created the entire WiS mess. They applied a serious amount of development resources and delivered something that had no impact on game play what so ever. But it did have an impact on 20% of CCP's employees. I find it unlikely that they will show any more commitment until they have something that actually adds to the game to deliver.
Yea, except they didn't deliver a "little". The poured development time into creating an entire new engine (Carbon), which Eve runs on now. That Engine has contributed to a lot of the changes we've seen since. People somehow are always under the impression that all the did was create a little room with a pointless Avatar in it... When it comes down to it, that is all we got on face value, but we've been reaping the benefits of the Carbon engine ever since.
If they spent an entire development cycle Avatar based content (and I am not saying they should), you wouldn't get just one room anymore. Over the Crucible expansion cycle they made the other three racial quarters and a whole host of other features which everyone loved, because the engine was already finished. They created three new rooms with a tiny fraction of the dev resources from the previous expansion.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
339
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 18:54:00 -
[565] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:i thought it's been established that a bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other makes dogshite for content, and just lol plain wrong. Your absolutely right, which is why, given the nature of EvE's sandbox, we should also be able to put a bomb in our WiS disposable clones and detonate it in the middile of the group of dancing pissants.
Just because some prick will probably stand around dancing in bar all day spamming local, should not mean that WiS is called off. The potential for new gameplay elements are huge. Imagine carrying out specialised contracts, attacking staions with a suicide clone with an explosive, chemical or biological device inside them. Imagine taking out station officials in order to reduce rents on hangers. Imagine an open black market where you can buy all sorts of outlawed items. Imagine picking up specail missions from back alley agents who are unable to deal in the open.
Imagine the ganks you could pull on a room full of carebears who never undock!!! MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
RAP ACTION HERO
165
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 05:37:00 -
[566] - Quote
but but but https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=208832 not barbie freaking at all. vitoc erryday |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
343
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 06:34:00 -
[567] - Quote
Forum bars can be fun. I used to post in them all the time back when I was still active on the Cyberpunk 2020 forums.
But I have another question, (even though you haven't answerwd my last one yet,) and that is:
Why do we play video games instead of play-by-post forum games that could achieve the same end goal? MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
RAP ACTION HERO
165
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 06:54:00 -
[568] - Quote
good idea, we should do sov by post-by-post forum games vitoc erryday |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
575
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 08:38:00 -
[569] - Quote
Imagine opening a station that is basically Independence, USA in space! Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
344
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 11:18:00 -
[570] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Imagine opening a station that is basically Independence, USA in space! Resisting... urge... to make... remarks... that will probably get me banned... MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
|
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
344
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 11:38:00 -
[571] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:good idea, we should do sov by post-by-post forum games It's already here. It's called EvE reddit and Jabber.
But seriously, we play for the quality of gaming and for the immersion.
EvE is about the sandbox, not just spaceships.
It is possible to play EvE and never even once board a ship. You can still become space rich and never fire a single round or even lock a target.
WiS has so much potential for the EvE community. I want to see it in.the client, but I would understand if it became necessary to put it in a different client. If it was necessary to put it on another platform, (or mixed platforms, I refuse to buy a PS3 just for dust and I won't buy one for WiS,) then I would want some way of using my EvE character in it still. With the advent of CREST, there mist be a way of fully integrating WiS with the current EvE client.
I don't care about emotes or dancing. I love the chronicles and I love the novels. I want the level of immersion available to use to broaden and expand. I want to have a fist fight in a bar with a DUSTer, I want to broker a shady deal with a Guristas recruiter in a Caldari station to deliver a chemical weapon onto a Gallente station and frame a Caldari officer for it. I want to be able to walk into a bar, order a drink and detonate the bomb in my chest for ***** and giggles or even for a handsom payout. I want to boot up a disposable clone in a shielded space suit, walk into a derelict wreck and scavenge new parts for implants or other tech.
Please explain why this should not happen. And I will not accept that you don't want to see a bunch of idiots dancing and emoting each other in a lobby, because you would never have to see or interact with them. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1000
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 16:05:00 -
[572] - Quote
you guys still believe that CCP does ,what you want ? ha ha ha hahahahaha
Team Avatar was nothing more then a marketing tool ,a joke and fake ideas. R.S.I2014
|
Niveuss Nye
The Advent of Faith
20
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 16:13:00 -
[573] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:you guys still believe that CCP does ,what you want ? ha ha ha hahahahaha
Team Avatar was nothing more then a marketing tool ,a joke and fake ideas.
That, and Team Avatar was desolved a decent time ago.
There is no avatar type development (at least that has been public knowledge) unless you consider DUST at present. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1000
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 16:36:00 -
[574] - Quote
Niveuss Nye wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:you guys still believe that CCP does ,what you want ? ha ha ha hahahahaha
Team Avatar was nothing more then a marketing tool ,a joke and fake ideas. That, and Team Avatar was desolved a decent time ago. There is no avatar type development (at least that has been public knowledge) unless you consider DUST at present.
If something should be shelved ,it is the shooting at planets thing. R.S.I2014
|
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
344
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 19:51:00 -
[575] - Quote
Niveuss Nye wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:you guys still believe that CCP does ,what you want ? ha ha ha hahahahaha
Team Avatar was nothing more then a marketing tool ,a joke and fake ideas. That, and Team Avatar was desolved a decent time ago. There is no avatar type development (at least that has been public knowledge) unless you consider DUST at present. I still see no reason to not discuss the potential for WiS. It's been shelved. We know. Shelved is not the same as binned.
By the way, I noticed the two main posters against WiS have not addressed the 2.questions.I.posed earlier. I would greatly appreciate their feedback on them. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
RAP ACTION HERO
169
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 19:55:00 -
[576] - Quote
a while back TA hinted at prototypes of "space hulk survival horror" gameplay and some barbie lover was all whiney about it, cus it didn't have emoting. vitoc erryday |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
347
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 23:30:00 -
[577] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:a while back TA hinted at prototypes of "space hulk survival horror" gameplay and some barbie lover was all whiney about it, cus it didn't have emoting. You really are hung up on emoting.
Tell you what, no emoting in WiS. Problem solved?
And please, just answer the two questions. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1000
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 03:31:00 -
[578] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:a while back TA hinted at prototypes of "space hulk survival horror" gameplay and some barbie lover was all whiney about it, cus it didn't have emoting. You really are hung up on emoting. Tell you what, no emoting in WiS. Problem solved? And please, just answer the two questions.
He can,t ,whining about emoting and barbie obsessions are the only thing they can come up with R.S.I2014
|
RAP ACTION HERO
172
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 06:19:00 -
[579] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:a while back TA hinted at prototypes of "space hulk survival horror" gameplay and some barbie lover was all whiney about it, cus it didn't have emoting. You really are hung up on emoting. Tell you what, no emoting in WiS. Problem solved? And please, just answer the two questions. He can,t ,whining about emoting and barbie obsessions are the only thing they can come up with i just keep on seeing emoters want to emote dogshite suggestions? vitoc erryday |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
241
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 06:21:00 -
[580] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:
But showing commitment and deliver a little was exactly what CCP did and what created the entire WiS mess.
They applied a serious amount of development resources and delivered something that had no impact on game play what so ever.
But it did have an impact on 20% of CCP's employees.
I find it unlikely that they will show any more commitment until they have something that actually adds to the game to deliver.
Well the problem was that CCP didn't deliver, so nobody was happy with the result. Not that the idea itself was bad. |
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Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1023
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 06:41:00 -
[581] - Quote
Ok so WiS was supplanted by DUST. We can still do this, just make it a DUST thing.
Example: Create a new type of exploration site, "Mysterious Ancient Ruin." Can't be accessed by analyzer, hacker or salvage. Instead must be "cleaned out" by DUST troops. When you find it, a window pops up: DUST contract. Offer X amount of ISK for whatever goodies they find inside. Give it a DUST version of a DED rating. It then creates a DUST instance that DUST teams who can then consider the contract fees versus the risk.
Yes, this is adding PvE content to DUST. Which just makes it more like EvE. Live with it. It could turn into PvP if someone else scans down the same site before they've completed the mission and another DUST team, hired by someone else, also comes in looking for the loot.
Whether or not the capsuleer gets that loot is dependent on the ability of the DUST team, assuming they even take the contract. So now you've got EvE ISK flowing into DUST, DUST providing unique resources back into EvE in return, and giving old "Space Hulk" fans a reason to buy DUST.
And that's just one example.
PS: And when you do this CCP, I expect a free PLEX in my hanger as a "finders fee" for this idea. Thanks. EvE Forum Bingo |
Mars Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
1629
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 08:06:00 -
[582] - Quote
I rather like the idea of using the EVE-Dust connection and the Dust Battleserver connection to make avatar gameplay possible. Simple, easy, already has the hardware and infrastructure, (and much of the code), in place as far as I can tell. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Justin Cody
BLOOM. Verge of Collapse
40
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 08:15:00 -
[583] - Quote
This is how I picture Team Avatar simulating even more character creator content for the EVA stuff and of course making us more beautiful.
enjoy!
MAKEUP
new EVE minigame :-P |
Ai Shun
885
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 08:16:00 -
[584] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:WiS has so much potential for the EvE community.
It has potential for the EVE Universe. Generally the people that are big pushers for WiS are more ... shall we say ... misaligned with EVE as a concept. I still believe the highest value can be seen when WiS is a separate, but integrated game client with it's own development team, revenue stream, etc. Similarly executed to Dust.
I have (had, until for some strange reason it was locked) what I thought was a well thought out suggestion thread on how to approach it. Listed in my signature if you're interested in reading it.
EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Justin Cody
BLOOM. Verge of Collapse
40
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 08:17:00 -
[585] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:WiS has so much potential for the EvE community. It has potential for the EVE Universe. Generally the people that are big pushers for WiS are more ... shall we say ... misaligned with EVE as a concept. I still believe the highest value can be seen when WiS is a separate, but integrated game client with it's own development team, revenue stream, etc. Similarly executed to Dust. I have (had, until for some strange reason it was locked) what I thought was a well thought out suggestion thread on how to approach it. Listed in my signature if you're interested in reading it.
You mean World of Darkness? |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
313
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 11:16:00 -
[586] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:i thought it's been established that a bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other makes dogshite for content, and just lol plain wrong.
Oh, you worked a new avatar. no more a cute little girl but a big thought macho? So sweet. |
Evandra
Surfer des Sandwurms
10
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 12:04:00 -
[587] - Quote
mechtech wrote:I'd really love nothing more than to see some WiS progress as well (I mean a small, capable team working in the background on it, with no public demos or release dates to screw things up like Incarna.
That said, this new idea in the OP is way too much fluff... I mean, corp meeting rooms, public stations where you can walk around and go to a bar, and a poker room/minigames/gambling stuff. That's all that's needed for WiS. Introduce those features and wrap it up. Maybe a few years down the line add some shinies like ship bridges or visiting with the Dusties, but we don't need actual avatar gameplay.
couldn't agree more with the part of a small team to keep working on it but why wouldn't you want real gameplay out of it ? you saw where no gameplay got WiS ? if WiS would have been what is described here team avatar would be in full charge and strenghened instead of disbanded.
whatever ppl say nowadays expansions without gameplay made the problems ccp was facing not WiS as a new addition to eve... as long most folks are working on FiS a decent team for WiS shouldn't be a problem. the first attempt with neglecting FiS for other games and WiS without gameplay surely wasn't that good either :P
it always has to be the other way round...bring in gameplay first and add fluff over time. i bet no matter which game mechanic (as long it should be fundamental & worth an expansion) or which game it will fail the other way round :P |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1257
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 12:25:00 -
[588] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:WiS has so much potential for the EvE community. It has potential for the EVE Universe. Generally the people that are big pushers for WiS are more ... shall we say ... misaligned with EVE as a concept. I still believe the highest value can be seen when WiS is a separate, but integrated game client with it's own development team, revenue stream, etc. Similarly executed to Dust. I have (had, until for some strange reason it was locked) what I thought was a well thought out suggestion thread on how to approach it. Listed in my signature if you're interested in reading it.
Personally, and I know I am not alone, I would much prefer any WiS content to be in the same client. Unless your talking about using dust as a platform Eve really doesn't need any extra clients linking with it to complicate matters. Two clients interacting in one universe is ground breaking enough for the time being thanks. Also, frankly I want to have access to any WiS gameplay, and I don't have a PS3.
As for big pushers of WiS being misaligned with "Eve as a concept", would you kindly explain what makes me misaligned with Eve as a concept? In case you need some info on me to decide... I am a small gang and solo PvPer, and casual CEO of a merc corp, who has an industry alt. I have suicide ganked, I have issued wars and been on the defending side with carebears, I've run incursions, WH sites, an industry corp, lived in Sov and NPC null where I've FCed carrier kills and small stuff, been in gangs of various sizes etc. To cut it short, I have tried most of the core gameplay styles and I still play in what most people would call the stereotypical Eve play style.
Most of the people posting here are "misaligned with eve as a concept", because very few have experienced great variation in their gameplay. Most people find an area of Eve they are happy with and stick to it. Which is why you get such varying opinion. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
347
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 12:27:00 -
[589] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:WiS has so much potential for the EvE community. It has potential for the EVE Universe. Generally the people that are big pushers for WiS are more ... shall we say ... misaligned with EVE as a concept. I still believe the highest value can be seen when WiS is a separate, but integrated game client with it's own development team, revenue stream, etc. Similarly executed to Dust. I have (had, until for some strange reason it was locked) what I thought was a well thought out suggestion thread on how to approach it. Listed in my signature if you're interested in reading it. I have no problem with WiS working in a separate client, to an extent.
I want to be able to use the characters I use in EvE and I want all their financial accounts inventories to be accessible. These requirements are fundamental to me and I'm sure I'm not alone. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Whim Aqayn
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 13:25:00 -
[590] - Quote
Well since the necro apparently is okay, I'll give my opinion.
I don't want them to put WiS in any part of the game outside of stations. If I can't explore in a ship, I don't want to do it. If I have to walk around in some kind of space hulk to complete a mission, I don't want to do it.
I can see the merit of walking in stations. But the moment it spills over to anywhere else I will be done. |
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Winters Chill
Marine-Industries
98
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 14:00:00 -
[591] - Quote
Whim Aqayn wrote:Well since the necro apparently is okay, I'll give my opinion.
I don't want them to put WiS in any part of the game outside of stations. If I can't explore in a ship, I don't want to do it. If I have to walk around in some kind of space hulk to complete a mission, I don't want to do it.
I can see the merit of walking in stations. But the moment it spills over to anywhere else I will be done.
I do.
However there is a glaring lore hole.
Presumably there will be lots of development time on making avatar run, climb, jump etc and the space suits.
Why would pod pilots do that? Apparently we are industrial geniuses who can build capital ships in automated factories. Why would they just stick arms on a camera drone and send it inside?
Why risk a painful death when a drone is easy to manifacture and expendable?
That being said, I really want avatar gameplay expanded, we have them now, lets do something with them. |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
347
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 14:51:00 -
[592] - Quote
Winters Chill wrote:Why would pod pilots do that? Apparently we are industrial geniuses who can build capital ships in automated factories. Why would they just stick arms on a camera drone and send it inside?
Why risk a painful death when a drone is easy to manifacture and expendable? Covered:
CCP Bayesian wrote:Right now weGÇÖre thinking that these abandoned structures are so dangerous, radioactive and toxic, that they can only be entered with special suits. Obviously with access to clones you arenGÇÖt worried about radiation and long term health effects of hazardous lifestyles. You probably all smoke and eat lots of bacon as well and besides robots wonGÇÖt survive the violent EM fields. Robot electronics would toast, thus only teams using gear that involves crude electronics, like found in EM resistant military hardware can go in and recover the technology that lies within. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1159
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 14:54:00 -
[593] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:WiS has so much potential for the EvE community. It has potential for the EVE Universe. Generally the people that are big pushers for WiS are more ... shall we say ... misaligned with EVE as a concept. I still believe the highest value can be seen when WiS is a separate, but integrated game client with it's own development team, revenue stream, etc. Similarly executed to Dust. I have (had, until for some strange reason it was locked) what I thought was a well thought out suggestion thread on how to approach it. Listed in my signature if you're interested in reading it.
Asking for a fourth game was pretty cunning as a way to troll, but not really effective way to get alternate gameplay for those "misaligned" to the game.
Not all hope is lost as CCP just figured that *maybe* most players in EVE don't play the way they are supposed to play it, and so they leave in a silent but continuous stream which new recruits no longer can balance out. I am waiting to see how Fanfest turns and wether CCP is willing to recognise that *maybe* soloers/cauals are a majority of their players.
Those would not be good news for WiS (specially as WiS was turned in the last prototype into yet another absurdly time consuming massive gang activity, and even worst, it would be the mother of all Jesus features), but i am welcoming anything that means that I can put to use the time and money I invested in this game already.
Avatar customization & gameplay was a easy way with plenty of potential to not thread on FiS's premises, but if CCP wants to pull the harder trick and implement casual/solo friendly FiS content, I will give it a try nonetheless... EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Whim Aqayn
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 15:29:00 -
[594] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:---
That's why CCP were forced to postpone WiS for the time being, because people want WiS so dearly... Wait, that doesn't make sense. They were forced to postpoone WiS because the CASUAL MAJORITY wanted more eye candy... no... no, that's not it either.
I agree with Ai Shun. If you want avatar based content go play another game. You aren't going to get it here, because that's how we like it. |
RAP ACTION HERO
173
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 15:46:00 -
[595] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:WiS has so much potential for the EvE community. It has potential for the EVE Universe. Generally the people that are big pushers for WiS are more ... shall we say ... misaligned with EVE as a concept. I still believe the highest value can be seen when WiS is a separate, but integrated game client with it's own development team, revenue stream, etc. Similarly executed to Dust. I have (had, until for some strange reason it was locked) what I thought was a well thought out suggestion thread on how to approach it. Listed in my signature if you're interested in reading it. Asking for a fourth game was pretty cunning as a way to troll, but not really effective way to get alternate gameplay for those "misaligned" to the game. Not all hope is lost as CCP just figured that *maybe* most players in EVE don't play the way they are supposed to play it, and so they leave in a silent but continuous stream which new recruits no longer can balance out. I am waiting to see how Fanfest turns and wether CCP is willing to recognise that *maybe* soloers/cauals are a majority of their players. Those would not be good news for WiS (specially as WiS was turned in the last prototype into yet another absurdly time consuming massive gang activity, and even worst, it would be the mother of all Jesus features), but i am welcoming anything that means that I can put to use the time and money I invested in this game already. Avatar customization & gameplay was a easy way with plenty of potential to not thread on FiS's premises, but if CCP wants to pull the harder trick and implement casual/solo friendly FiS content, I will give it a try nonetheless... why are you still subbed?
vitoc erryday |
Macmuelli
Meltd0wn Corium Fission
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 16:04:00 -
[596] - Quote
I personal hope, this will be the first steps , which brings us later into the szenario of conquering other pilots ships. Where probally ship crews would have a great role to protect against intruders. Or there is a chance , kidnapping some of the crew members, which have significant penaltys for the pod pilot, except if he is not stopping them.
The adventage of eve is the open space, a great place for playing with the imagination. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1001
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 16:25:00 -
[597] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:a while back TA hinted at prototypes of "space hulk survival horror" gameplay and some barbie lover was all whiney about it, cus it didn't have emoting. You really are hung up on emoting. Tell you what, no emoting in WiS. Problem solved? And please, just answer the two questions. He can,t ,whining about emoting and barbie obsessions are the only thing they can come up with i just keep on seeing emoters want to emote dogshite suggestions?
Yes and instead actually reading the ideas and wishes these people put in here ,the only thing your little brain can come up with is the same routine over and over R.S.I2014
|
RAP ACTION HERO
173
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:25:00 -
[598] - Quote
yeah like i want to like, open a bar or corp room, so like um we can like meet like face to face, or i want my pleasure hub, can i get new furniture in my cq from space ikea, can i have pets, can i invite my special friend so just two of us can emote each other in our cq since we don't have multiple avatar gameplay yet, can i get some new pants, oh god wis is shelved, goodbye eve i am unsubbing, but i won't
that about sums up the 99% of dogshite ideas i've seen, so seriously wait for the devblog and stop posting more bad ideas. except for the one where wis is quarantined in another client, with a big "freaks go here" sign.
oh and lol drone clones and complex /dance, vitoc erryday |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1646
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:12:00 -
[599] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:why are you still subbed?
Maybe he just "found an old PLEX" again on a different account. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1001
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:17:00 -
[600] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:yeah like i want to like, open a bar or corp room, so like um we can like meet like face to face, or i want my pleasure hub, can i get new furniture in my cq from space ikea, can i have pets, can i invite my special friend so just two of us can emote each other in our cq since we don't have multiple avatar gameplay yet, can i get some new pants, oh god wis is shelved, goodbye eve i am unsubbing, but i won't
that about sums up the 99% of dogshite ideas i've seen, so seriously wait for the devblog and stop posting more bad ideas. except for the one where wis is quarantined in another client, with a big "freaks go here" sign.
oh and lol drone clones and complex /dance,
So people who want the door open are freaks ? ok ,then i am a freak. But still your little brain could not keep the word emoting out of 1 of your replies.
You see , i am not a fan of DUST and sometimes i make that clear. But you don,t see me over and over again with the same words in a discussion thread involving DUST,bc i know a lot of people like the idea of DUST and EvE and they are entitled to their opinion. Your little brain can,t understand that other people can like things you and the other anti WIS whiners don,t like. If you can add something to this discussion ,be my guest or just keep making a fool of yourself by shouting the same crap. Let the WIS wanters discuss WIS ,like i let the planetshooters do their discussion
R.S.I2014
|
|
RAP ACTION HERO
174
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:20:00 -
[601] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:yeah like i want to like, open a bar or corp room, so like um we can like meet like face to face, or i want my pleasure hub, can i get new furniture in my cq from space ikea, can i have pets, can i invite my special friend so just two of us can emote each other in our cq since we don't have multiple avatar gameplay yet, can i get some new pants, oh god wis is shelved, goodbye eve i am unsubbing, but i won't
that about sums up the 99% of dogshite ideas i've seen, so seriously wait for the devblog and stop posting more bad ideas. except for the one where wis is quarantined in another client, with a big "freaks go here" sign.
oh and lol drone clones and complex /dance, So people who want the door open are freaks ? ok ,then i am a freak. But still your little brain could not keep the word emoting out of 1 of your replies. You see , i am not a fan of DUST and sometimes i make that clear. But you don,t see me over and over again with the same words in a discussion thread involving DUST,bc i know a lot of people like the idea of DUST and EvE and they are entitled to their opinion. Your little brain can,t understand that other people can like things you and the other anti WIS whiners don,t like. If you can add something to this discussion ,be my guest or just keep making a fool of yourself by shouting the same crap. Let the WIS wanters discuss WIS ,like i let the planetshooters do their discussion lol you whine about 'dustcrap' all the time vitoc erryday |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1001
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:22:00 -
[602] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:yeah like i want to like, open a bar or corp room, so like um we can like meet like face to face, or i want my pleasure hub, can i get new furniture in my cq from space ikea, can i have pets, can i invite my special friend so just two of us can emote each other in our cq since we don't have multiple avatar gameplay yet, can i get some new pants, oh god wis is shelved, goodbye eve i am unsubbing, but i won't
that about sums up the 99% of dogshite ideas i've seen, so seriously wait for the devblog and stop posting more bad ideas. except for the one where wis is quarantined in another client, with a big "freaks go here" sign.
oh and lol drone clones and complex /dance, So people who want the door open are freaks ? ok ,then i am a freak. But still your little brain could not keep the word emoting out of 1 of your replies. You see , i am not a fan of DUST and sometimes i make that clear. But you don,t see me over and over again with the same words in a discussion thread involving DUST,bc i know a lot of people like the idea of DUST and EvE and they are entitled to their opinion. Your little brain can,t understand that other people can like things you and the other anti WIS whiners don,t like. If you can add something to this discussion ,be my guest or just keep making a fool of yourself by shouting the same crap. Let the WIS wanters discuss WIS ,like i let the planetshooters do their discussion lol you whine about 'dustcrap' all the time
yes i do ,but i don,t bombard their discussions with it.
R.S.I2014
|
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
592
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:25:00 -
[603] - Quote
Can we call WiS for what it is and call it meat spinning? Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1001
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:27:00 -
[604] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Can we call WiS for what it is and call it meat spinning?
too bad it is the only thing you can do in station spinning a body or a ship R.S.I2014
|
RAP ACTION HERO
174
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:28:00 -
[605] - Quote
you can just alt tab bro vitoc erryday |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1001
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:31:00 -
[606] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:you can just alt tab bro
And take me out of EvE? makes no sense ,what if the station actually had some use?no need for alt-tab then.
R.S.I2014
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1161
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 21:16:00 -
[607] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:yeah like i want to like, open a bar or corp room, so like um we can like meet like face to face, or i want my pleasure hub, can i get new furniture in my cq from space ikea, can i have pets, can i invite my special friend so just two of us can emote each other in our cq since we don't have multiple avatar gameplay yet, can i get some new pants, oh god wis is shelved, goodbye eve i am unsubbing, but i won't
that about sums up the 99% of dogshite ideas i've seen, so seriously wait for the devblog and stop posting more bad ideas. except for the one where wis is quarantined in another client, with a big "freaks go here" sign.
oh and lol drone clones and complex /dance,
Hey, you really like to follow me! I didn't recalled the whole dance-> formation flying-> tactical maneuvering suggestion! (The essential point still lies there... the server should reward players who engage in activities that free it from the task of tracking their position)
Anyway I dissent on drone clones (link), as they are are the most lore-sensible way for capsuleers to engage in violent activities. That Team Avatar thought that it made sense for capsuleers to go shoot each other in some derelict station, leaving their deadly ships behind and their disposble crews unbothered, just tells how desperately CCP needed to defuse the situation.
Now that the WiS crowd is largely unsubbed and the issue is not even on the table, i guess they may come up with something that makes more sense whenever they feel the need to keep selling avatar smoke. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1001
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 21:58:00 -
[608] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:yeah like i want to like, open a bar or corp room, so like um we can like meet like face to face, or i want my pleasure hub, can i get new furniture in my cq from space ikea, can i have pets, can i invite my special friend so just two of us can emote each other in our cq since we don't have multiple avatar gameplay yet, can i get some new pants, oh god wis is shelved, goodbye eve i am unsubbing, but i won't
that about sums up the 99% of dogshite ideas i've seen, so seriously wait for the devblog and stop posting more bad ideas. except for the one where wis is quarantined in another client, with a big "freaks go here" sign.
oh and lol drone clones and complex /dance, Hey, you really like to follow me! I didn't recalled the whole dance-> formation flying-> tactical maneuvering suggestion! (The essential point still lies there... the server should reward players who engage in activities that free it from the task of tracking their position) Anyway I dissent on drone clones (link), as they are are the most lore-sensible way for capsuleers to engage in violent activities. That Team Avatar thought that it made sense for capsuleers to go shoot each other in some derelict station, leaving their deadly ships behind and their disposble crews unbothered, just tells how desperately CCP needed to defuse the situation. Now that the WiS crowd is largely unsubbed and the issue is not even on the table, i guess they may come up with something that makes more sense whenever they feel the need to keep selling avatar smoke.
Are you sure that the WIS crowd is largely un subbed ,bc i see plenty of them The problem CCP has here ,is that everybody made up their mind how WIS should look like And it is all CCP own fault,the promise of WIS was there for too long and asking people to give ideas and not reacting or discussing it ,was a even better idea. If Team Avatar was even real ( i don,t believe it ,they never even touched something avatar related) then they could channel it to a real and normal discussion and even guide some narrow minded ones to some easy solution. the WIS crowd is still big enough but CCP decided to stall the discussion to some people on some fanfest ,who are bigmouthed drunk and get some few months bans afterwards, makes no sense at all
The stuff they probably are going to show us at fanfest is just another "we want this but we can,t "Video R.S.I2014
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
434
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 22:33:00 -
[609] - Quote
Arduemont wrote: Yea, except they didn't deliver a "little". The poured development time into creating an entire new engine (Carbon), which Eve runs on now.
Carbon(tm) is the name CCP has given to the all rewritten core functionality.
Partly to enable them to use at least part of their code for other projects than EvE and partly to enable them to rewrite large parts of the current functionality.
The new 3D Avatar code is a tiny fraction of Carbon(tm).
Imagine that CCP was really Cheese Control Production and their more or less only product was a software to optimise the production of sheep milk cheese, jokingly named Eve.
The origins of that program and it's original code went back to a few individuals with limited resources but a grand idea, in s shed on an island at the end of the world (as in Tasmania), so the code was a bit crude, coded to solve specific issues around the production of cheese made out of sheep's milk.
Over the years the company added more people, more resources and continued to hack on the old code from the shed.
And while their product seemed to sell well, and there was no direct threat on the horizon the owners (and staff most likely) know that they where currently safe, mainly because they had limited competition in their quite narrow niche.
So Cheese Control Production faced two problems. Much of the old code was very obscure making it hard to add new nifty features that their customers wanted, and at the same time the code was so written so specifically for sheep cheese that it would be hard to reuse in software for new areas.
So out brave heroes at CCP set out on a new project named Calcium(tm) aimed at rewriting core functionality to make it both a solid foundation for new features in Eve and allow for new projects that shared (hopefully large) parts this new EvE or Calcium(tm) code-base.
One idea was to re-use their knowledge in sheep and add companion product to EvE to actually manage sheep out in the fields.
The other was to use the Calcium(tm) framework to create something similar to EvE, but in a completely new field, goat cheese.
They started their project, or rather projects and initially it seemed to work fine, the users of Eve didn't initially get so many new features, at least not any they've asked for, but they some very nice upgrades in performance and some really nice new or improved features.
The sheep herding project was forked off to a new studio on the other side of the world known for their intimate knowledge of sheep (as in Wales) but it was based on a new platform and used mainly new code, but shared it's connection to Eve since it was about sheep, and Eve could use the same data to create milk.
For the goat cheese project they found a company in Tblisi who had written and published lots of stories and manuals about goats and decided to merge with them to combine their new (and still only partly recoded) Calcium(tm) with the Georgian knowledge of goats.
But after a while CCP ends up in a bit of a mess, they still have limited resources, and their only real source of income is from the users of Eve. Who while happy over the improved infrastructure starts to get a bit miffed over the lack of useful new features, esp since they start to get features that they hadn't asked for and that looked very much like they where intended for the other two projects.
It culminated when a new presentation system was introduced to Eve, which: a: worked very badly, if at all. b: didn't add anything to Eve, since there was only the basic interface and nothing new behind it. c: was obvious that it was added to make it possible for CCP to go on with the Goat project.
To make it worse, there didn't seem to be anything useful coming from either of the two projects.
With the Goat project, who seemed to depend on an interface and barely worked and had a bad habit of destroying computers if left on, being the worst one in the group.
The result was that CCP had to dial back on it's number of employees (who weren't happy to go back to milking sheep or goats), the Goat project was slashed to a minimal survival sized crew and the integration of code between sheep and goat was halted.
So. Calcium(tm) lived on, since it was much more than the failed presentation layer written mainly for the Goat project.
But until either the Goat side of the show can contribute enough or someone comes up with an actual use of the Goat code in Eve, it will stay as it is.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil.
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1257
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 23:03:00 -
[610] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Sheep stuff...
Errr.. In a strange kind of way, that is what I was saying.... I think... I'm not really 100% sure what the point of that post was, lol. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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Marcus Caspius
138
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 02:08:00 -
[611] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:too bad it is the only thing you can do in station spinning a body or a ship
t.b.h. you can also bruise your nose by walking into THE #$%#ING DOOR!!!
Grammatical error and spelling mistakes are included for your entertainment!
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Ai Shun
885
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 03:17:00 -
[612] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Personally, and I know I am not alone, I would much prefer any WiS content to be in the same client. Unless your talking about using dust as a platform Eve really doesn't need any extra clients linking with it to complicate matters. Two clients interacting in one universe is ground breaking enough for the time being thanks. Also, frankly I want to have access to any WiS gameplay, and I don't have a PS3.
Then perhaps read the suggestion thread? The proposal was to modularise the existing PC client to allow for:
(a) EVE only players (b) WiS only players (c) EVE + WiS players
The main object getting WiS its own revenue stream, it's own development team and it's own direction where it interacts with the EVE Universe but can stand on its own as well. And yes, if that means cannabilising the World of Darkness team - so be it. I prefer EVE to be stronger, thanks.
Arduemont wrote:As for big pushers of WiS being misaligned with "Eve as a concept", would you kindly explain what makes me misaligned with Eve as a concept?
"Generally". I'm guessing then you don't fit the general person like the Turkish family. Although your inability to read something before commenting on how much you disagree with it makes you fit a bit more with the general EVE proletariat.
EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Ai Shun
885
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 03:20:00 -
[613] - Quote
Whim Aqayn wrote:I agree with Ai Shun. If you want avatar based content go play another game. You aren't going to get it here, because that's how we like it.
No, that is not what I am saying. I also want Avatar based gameplay; but I do not want it at the expense of EVE Online as the game is now. Thus I proposed an alternative solution where Avatar based gameplay could get a lot of attention and come to market a lot faster.
Yes, people like the Fahzarmadai family like to throw their toys out of the cot if they don't get instant gratification and they're not willing to compromise on something that is at least potentially achievable, but hey.
If I manage to get WiS and delivered by pushing for it to be something capable of attracting its own revenue (Business cases, painful things, right?) then I'll live with being called a troll by a small minded tool.
EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1165
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 07:58:00 -
[614] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Whim Aqayn wrote:I agree with Ai Shun. If you want avatar based content go play another game. You aren't going to get it here, because that's how we like it. No, that is not what I am saying. I also want Avatar based gameplay; but I do not want it at the expense of EVE Online as the game is now. Thus I proposed an alternative solution where Avatar based gameplay could get a lot of attention and come to market a lot faster. Yes, people like the Fahzarmadai family like to throw their toys out of the cot if they don't get instant gratification and they're not willing to compromise on something that is at least potentially achievable, but hey. If I manage to get WiS and delivered by pushing for it to be something capable of attracting its own revenue (Business cases, painful things, right?) then I'll live with being called a troll by a small minded tool.
Do you know what's funny? After so many many many posts, you still don't know where I stand about your idea. i want to use my EVE characters for WiS. A separate game won't allow that. I don't want to bloody start from scratch when I already have my avatars here doing nothing (not my fault).
Also, asking CCP to develop FOUR games is absurd. They're not even using the same Carbon framework for WoD (they like it tough, very tough), and that was the piece of info that convinced me that CCP doesn't haves any WiS plans for EVE in the foreseable future.
Thinking about it, I blame it on the complexity of the FiS content, and how the last "new" feature was nerfed because it competed with nullsec for player attention and income -aka Incursions.
Cosmetic and limited avatar content would not compete with nullsec (if you're bored enough to prefer tinkering with your avatar rather than earn ISK, then you're really "misaligned" to the game already) and would open other ways to play EVE. The only threat to FiS would be that people stopped asploding things because they would rather do avatar stuff... but then that is unlikely as the "misaligned" guys are a little bunch, aren't we?
And by the way, "casual friendly" gameplay does not mean instant gratification. Anything that can be done in short strides towards a greater goal is both casual friendly and properly suit to involvement/reward. And actually it takes greater commitment (and a longer subscription!) to devote 100 x 30 minutes to a goal, than 10 x 5 hours... EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
RAP ACTION HERO
178
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 08:01:00 -
[615] - Quote
so you only want to use your avatar for emoting, and 'drone clones' for riskless pve grinding. no, you undock or step out of that cq you are subject to eve, which means you may be podded. vitoc erryday |
Ai Shun
892
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 08:38:00 -
[616] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Do you know what's funny? After so many many many posts, you still don't know where I stand about your idea. i want to use my EVE characters for WiS. A separate game won't allow that. I don't want to bloody start from scratch when I already have my avatars here doing nothing (not my fault).
Maybe if you actually *read* the idea you'd see it is not an entirely separate game. Go read it. Seriously. And if you struggle to understand it, send me a PM. I'll happily explain it. See, you can develop code that is modular and can be launched used from two different clients. Software development 101. I'm guessing you don't know anything about it; otherwise you'd have realised that from the start.
Feel free to push **** uphill though. You're going to get just about nowhere and keep on feeding CCP the idea that their game is what you want by giving them revenue. If you *actually* wanted to get meaningful gameplay there is only one way to do that and that is to convince them there is money in it. And that you can only do by making a solid business case to attract players that won't normally try this *without* pissing off the existing player base that has showed, vehemently, that they are opposed to this.
And, much as I would like it to be otherwise, after what is it now - 5 years of promises and vapourware - that isn't coming in the nearby future as a part of EVE FiS. EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
348
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:07:00 -
[617] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:no, you undock or step out of that cq you are subject to eve, which means you may be podded. That's the first thing you have said that was actually useful.
I agree. And you know what, there no CONCORD in stations, only in space. The owning corporation sets all the rules and they also provide the security. As soon as an avatar leaves their CQ, they should be open to the same kind of interactions that can happen to them in space. If they leave their stuff lying around, it should be open to be stolen. If they enter a bar, there should be a chance they cam be poisoned, shot, stabbed, beaten to death and/or blown up.
Long live the sandbox! MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
RAP ACTION HERO
178
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:57:00 -
[618] - Quote
and i am not saying that people can just gank where ever willy nilly, there still needs to be some consequences, as in npc reprisal, sec hit; equivalent to fis. vitoc erryday |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
624
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 12:30:00 -
[619] - Quote
Was day dreaming with a friend the other day. Picture this scene:
CCP's GM (or news reporter)have the ability to record/stream video to the big scree in the captains quarters. Whenever something notable happens (big fights, player events, etc), these reporters would teleport to wherever the action is happening and share there camera drone view with people sitting in the CQ.
A person could be sat in their CQ flicking through the channels to see what is happening around the universe, and if he/she is able they could hop in their ship and get involved.
how is this not a direction CCP want to go? Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1165
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 13:59:00 -
[620] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:yeah like i want to like, open a bar or corp room, so like um we can like meet like face to face, or i want my pleasure hub, can i get new furniture in my cq from space ikea, can i have pets, can i invite my special friend so just two of us can emote each other in our cq since we don't have multiple avatar gameplay yet, can i get some new pants, oh god wis is shelved, goodbye eve i am unsubbing, but i won't
that about sums up the 99% of dogshite ideas i've seen, so seriously wait for the devblog and stop posting more bad ideas. except for the one where wis is quarantined in another client, with a big "freaks go here" sign.
oh and lol drone clones and complex /dance, Hey, you really like to follow me! I didn't recalled the whole dance-> formation flying-> tactical maneuvering suggestion! (The essential point still lies there... the server should reward players who engage in activities that free it from the task of tracking their position) Anyway I dissent on drone clones (link), as they are are the most lore-sensible way for capsuleers to engage in violent activities. That Team Avatar thought that it made sense for capsuleers to go shoot each other in some derelict station, leaving their deadly ships behind and their disposble crews unbothered, just tells how desperately CCP needed to defuse the situation. Now that the WiS crowd is largely unsubbed and the issue is not even on the table, i guess they may come up with something that makes more sense whenever they feel the need to keep selling avatar smoke. Are you sure that the WIS crowd is largely un subbed ,bc i see plenty of them The problem CCP has here ,is that everybody made up their mind how WIS should look like And it is all CCP own fault,the promise of WIS was there for too long and asking people to give ideas and not reacting or discussing it ,was a even better idea. If Team Avatar was even real ( i don,t believe it ,they never even touched something avatar related) then they could channel it to a real and normal discussion and even guide some narrow minded ones to some easy solution. the WIS crowd is still big enough but CCP decided to stall the discussion to some people on some fanfest ,who are bigmouthed drunk and get some few months bans afterwards, makes no sense at all The stuff they probably are going to show us at fanfest is just another "we want this but we can,t "Video
Well, i am thinking of the "usual suspects" from the old threads. You and me are the only ones left -and i am barely subbed.
Unlike you, i think that TA was real (as a part-time job), and they did what they did: QA testing of the easier to release avatar stuff, and the "prototype" shown in the Moscow meeting. What I blame on CCP it's the teasing with sleeve tatttoos and racial blending in Fanfest 2012. I'm going to seriously name their mothers if they mention that AGAIN in 2013.
The crude facts are that CCP can't manage to develop FiS at an acceptable pace and they're delaying even "vital" stuff like the iteration of POSes or SOV, so my bets are that they are matherially unable to develop WiS in any form within a sensible time frame.
To me that means that i must forget about WiS and avatars, and must hammer on the next nail available: solo friendly content and its close buddy, casual friendly content (as most people who lack time to play, lack time to get ingame mates). EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1165
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 14:06:00 -
[621] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:and i am not saying that people can just gank where ever willy nilly, there still needs to be some consequences, as in npc reprisal, sec hit; equivalent to fis.
The only consequences that matter are the ones that incentivate to stop the behavior that led to them. And in that sense, EVE's consequences to agressors are laughable. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
RAP ACTION HERO
178
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 14:08:00 -
[622] - Quote
solo friendly content and its close buddy, casual friendly content with fries and coke with no ice please, forget about the sandbox CCP just spoonfeed me. vitoc erryday |
RAP ACTION HERO
178
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 14:09:00 -
[623] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:and i am not saying that people can just gank where ever willy nilly, there still needs to be some consequences, as in npc reprisal, sec hit; equivalent to fis. The only consequences that matter are the ones that incentivate to stop the behavior that led to them. And in that sense, EVE's consequences to agressors are laughable. I am sorry that highsec is not 100% safe. vitoc erryday |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
2207
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 15:31:00 -
[624] - Quote
I've removed some trolling from this thread. New Eden Community Representative GÇ+ New Eden Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
455
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 16:22:00 -
[625] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:This is how I picture Team Avatar simulating even more character creator content for the EVA stuff and of course making us more beautiful. enjoy! MAKEUPnew EVE minigame :-P
OH NOES A MAN WIHT TEH MAEKUP.
Is that all you've got? Because I'm pretty sure he'd slip right in to Gallente culture.
Lors Dornick wrote:Carbon(tm) is the name CCP has given to the all rewritten core functionality.
Partly to enable them to use at least part of their code for other projects than EvE and partly to enable them to rewrite large parts of the current functionality.
The new 3D Avatar code is a tiny fraction of Carbon(tm).
From the relevant dev blog:
CCP Curt wrote:This was originally coded for Incarna, which needs to send a significantly higher volume of movement packets to support a walk-around MMO. In space you can cheat, but not so with close-up anthropomorphic motion. Early projections showed that even with a modest tick-rate, Incarna would bring the Tranquility cluster to its knees. BlueNet solves that problem by routing traffic in parallel with the GIL, to and from c++-native systems (like Physics). This is faster because the data stays in its native, bare-metal form and not double-thunked for every operation, a huge savings.
Emphasis mine. Malcanis, Ripard Teg, and Trebor Daehdoow for CSM 8
(I have three accounts, so why not?) |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1002
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 16:26:00 -
[626] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai
Unlike you, i think that TA was real (as a part-time job), and they did what they did: QA testing of the easier to release avatar stuff, and the "prototype" shown in the Moscow meeting. What I blame on CCP it's the teasing with sleeve tatttoos and racial blending in Fanfest 2012. I'm going to seriously name their mothers if they mention that AGAIN in 2013. [:evil: wrote:
That is exactly why i think they did not even touched WIS. I am not a programmer but the art assets for example ,the tattoos , are there ,shown at fanfest. Is it that hard to implement those ?The stuff they showed us at last fanfest could be leftover art from Incarnaflop
And as long there is nothing to show for ,nothing is done.
CCP announced Team Avatar as a small team dedicated to Avatar stuff,but shortly after, TA devs were making blogs on other stuff. Don,t get me wrong,they made some important changes in doing that ,but at least CCP could be honest about this marketing trick ,called Team Avatar
So until proven wrong on this ,Team Avatar never really worked on WIS or other Avatar stuff. R.S.I2014
|
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
348
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 17:21:00 -
[627] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:and i am not saying that people can just gank where ever willy nilly, there still needs to be some consequences, as in npc reprisal, sec hit; equivalent to fis. The only consequences that matter are the ones that incentivate to stop the behavior that led to them. And in that sense, EVE's consequences to agressors are laughable. That's open to debate. I think its about right as is. I don't have expectations for anyone/anything to stop a Gank all the time, but the CONCORD'esque 'vengence' policy works well. As long as its more costly to gank something than it is profitable, it's pretty much covered.
Security status loss, fiscal fines, corporate standings loss, bannings from stations for a set periods. There are several options. Risk free activities, of all varieties, are anathema to the EvE sandbox IMO. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1167
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 20:52:00 -
[628] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:and i am not saying that people can just gank where ever willy nilly, there still needs to be some consequences, as in npc reprisal, sec hit; equivalent to fis. The only consequences that matter are the ones that incentivate to stop the behavior that led to them. And in that sense, EVE's consequences to agressors are laughable. That's open to debate. I think its about right as is. I don't have expectations for anyone/anything to stop a Gank all the time, but the CONCORD'esque 'vengence' policy works well. As long as its more costly to gank something than it is profitable, it's pretty much covered. Security status loss, fiscal fines, corporate standings loss, bannings from stations for a set periods. There are several options. Risk free activities, of all varieties, are anathema to the EvE sandbox IMO.
Have you ever seen a ganker quit over the consequences of ganking? Not. Whereas players who quit over a gank are part of the EVE folklore.
I don't object that, as other "designer choices" in EVE, but I can't take seriously those who talk about "risk version" and "risk/consequence" from behind the designer choices that shelter their uncivil behavior. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2324
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 21:33:00 -
[629] - Quote
This is the thread that doesn't end... It just goes on and on my friend... Some people started posting, not knowing what it was, and we'll keep right on posting forever just because: This is the thread that doesn't end... It just goes on and on my friend... Some people started posting, not knowing what it was, and we'll keep right on posting forever just because: This is the thread that doesn't end... It just goes on and on my friend... Some people started posting, not knowing what it was, and we'll keep right on posting forever just because...
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Mars Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
1630
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:36:00 -
[630] - Quote
Whim Aqayn wrote:Well since the necro apparently is okay, I'll give my opinion.
I don't want them to put WiS in any part of the game outside of stations. If I can't explore in a ship, I don't want to do it. If I have to walk around in some kind of space hulk to complete a mission, I don't want to do it.
I can see the merit of walking in stations. But the moment it spills over to anywhere else I will be done.
I think the simple answer is, "then don't."
Profound isn't it.
But really, if all there is, is walking around in stations, then CCP would be better devoting there time elsewhere. We already know that avatar gameplay in the EVE client--on TQ--is rather lacking, what with slow-pacing, hover-view-over-the-shoulder-cam, and ..actually, there isn't much else really. The interactive objects are fine as far as I am concerned.
Just slow, poor character movement and control, and I don't think TQ is capable of providing better, or they'd likely be doing it in Dust. The War Barges are on TQ, have zero interaction between players, and the same movement mode as CQ in EVE and the MQ in Dust.
That tells me the limit is set for TQ, and I really don't see any reason to change it.
Using a Dust Battle-server-like connection to enhance Avatar gameplay and provide, real content for it, is the only way I see forward. Anything less is a waste of time and resources.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
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Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
580
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 01:44:00 -
[631] - Quote
Its over there will be no wis project or any avatar game. The spend to long on this project and what do we get. A avatar thats stuck in a room with some basic tools that we already have. You can walk sure. But you can also spin your ship. Dont see the point to work on this. I was fan of the project but let us be real, is that what eve online realy needs? for the world of warcraft people yah the need it but for the x1,2,3 players we dont need it.
So do we realy want a startrek online in eve online? Realy? |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
66
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 04:05:00 -
[632] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:So do we realy want a startrek online in eve online? Realy?
The Avatar project is effectively dead.
So all this emotional chestbeating and wearing-of-sackcloth-and-ashes is pointless.
|
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
435
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 06:06:00 -
[633] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Sheep stuff...
Errr.. In a strange kind of way, that is what I was saying.... I think... I'm not really 100% sure what the point of that post was, lol.
Ok, was a bored enough to track down CCP Unifex's devblog where he describes what Carbon(tm) is. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=788
It seems that people was so blown away by the video that they never actually read the actual text in the blog.
Or to quote CCP Orion in Inventory corification part 2 - creation of carbon inventory
Quote: The purpose of CARBON has been discussed in other dev blogs, but in short the goal is to separate game specific code and game agnostic code, the benefit of which will be simpler maintenance and better use of development resources.
The part of Carbon that is the 3D engine that drives CQ was created because they needed a game agnostic engine that could be used for avatar based gameplay that could be shared with other CCP projects.
That other project was of course WoD.
And with WoD taking the biggest hit when they had to reduce staff and is reported to be "ongoing and showing progress" but at a very reduced rate and minimal staff it means that the "CQ Engine" isn't a very prioritised project.
Things might change if/when the Atlanta team pulls a rabbit out of a hat and CCP finds resources to ramp up WoD.
Or someone gets a real brainwave and dreams up a "killer app" for it (within EvE or standalone).
But until then I think we will only get maintenance work done on CQ. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1168
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 07:29:00 -
[634] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Arduemont wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Sheep stuff...
Errr.. In a strange kind of way, that is what I was saying.... I think... I'm not really 100% sure what the point of that post was, lol. Ok, was a bored enough to track down CCP Unifex's devblog where he describes what Carbon(tm) is. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=788It seems that people was so blown away by the video that they never actually read the actual text in the blog. Or to quote CCP Orion in Inventory corification part 2 - creation of carbon inventoryQuote: The purpose of CARBON has been discussed in other dev blogs, but in short the goal is to separate game specific code and game agnostic code, the benefit of which will be simpler maintenance and better use of development resources.
The part of Carbon that is the 3D engine that drives CQ was created because they needed a game agnostic engine that could be used for avatar based gameplay that could be shared with other CCP projects. That other project was of course WoD. And with WoD taking the biggest hit when they had to reduce staff and is reported to be "ongoing and showing progress" but at a very reduced rate and minimal staff it means that the "CQ Engine" isn't a very prioritised project. Things might change if/when the Atlanta team pulls a rabbit out of a hat and CCP finds resources to ramp up WoD. Or someone gets a real brainwave and dreams up a "killer app" for it (within EvE or standalone). But until then I think we will only get maintenance work done on CQ.
Concerning WoD, CCP is hiring content makers for it (well, actually they are for the Atlanta office but then, EVE no longer is being worked in Atlanta). EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1002
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 16:43:00 -
[635] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:[quote=Whim Aqayn]
But really, if all there is, is walking around in stations, then CCP would be better devoting there time elsewhere.
Yes lets devote it to planetshooting and console kids ,way to go R.S.I2014
|
Soulpirate
Bedrock Industrial
271
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 17:21:00 -
[636] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Mars Theran wrote:[quote=Whim Aqayn]
But really, if all there is, is walking around in stations, then CCP would be better devoting there time elsewhere.
In an ironic twist, those console kids are asking for WiS. Quite a few of them. They were somehow under the impression that the two games would be connected, if even only social areas to begin with. Some of them are using the PS lounge as a resort because CCP hasn't given them the space within the EVE universe to do such things. If you ask me that allows them to get one foot out the door, if I was CCP I would be making sure they have everything they need to keep them immersed in the EVE verse. Yes lets devote it to planetshooting and console kids ,way to go
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1648
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 17:25:00 -
[637] - Quote
Apparently there is WoD progress,
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-28-vampire-mmo-world-of-darkness-being-played-internally-at-eve-online-maker-ccp
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Soulpirate
Bedrock Industrial
271
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 17:34:00 -
[638] - Quote
WoD is a bad idea imo, never should have tried to jump on the vampire fad with the length of time it takes to produce an MMO.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1648
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 17:40:00 -
[639] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:WoD is a bad idea imo, never should have tried to jump on the vampire fad with the length of time it takes to produce an MMO. LOL! Someone on TS last night said "Have you been to a bookstore recently? There is a section called "Paranormal teen romance". Its a not one, but two sets of selves". That fad is far from over. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Soulpirate
Bedrock Industrial
271
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 17:47:00 -
[640] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Soulpirate wrote:WoD is a bad idea imo, never should have tried to jump on the vampire fad with the length of time it takes to produce an MMO. LOL! Someone on TS last night said "Have you been to a bookstore recently? There is a section called "Paranormal teen romance". Its a not one, but two sets of selves". That fad is far from over. OMG, I really didn't want to hear that. |
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1002
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 20:02:00 -
[641] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Mars Theran wrote:[quote=Whim Aqayn]
But really, if all there is, is walking around in stations, then CCP would be better devoting there time elsewhere.
Yes lets devote it to planetshooting and console kids ,way to go In an ironic twist, those console kids are asking for WiS. Quite a few of them. They were somehow under the impression that the two games would be connected, if even only social areas to begin with. Some of them are using the PS lounge as a resort because CCP hasn't given them the space within the EVE universe to do such things. If you ask me that allows them to get one foot out the door, if I was CCP I would be making sure they have everything they need to keep them immersed in the EVE verse.
There is the failure of the interaction to begin with ,for EvE we can only shoot at planets nothing more ,nothing less ,Planetshooters are some sort of new miners shooting at planets ,instead of rocks. For the Dust players we are nothing more then ammo to their battlefield.( So much for the overlords in space)
edit: there is nothing more to that ,this is it ,this is your platform interaction R.S.I2014
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1002
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 20:47:00 -
[642] - Quote
So we don,t want resources on a feature for EvE like WIS ,but we want to be ammo for the console kids.
R.S.I2014
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Jada Maroo
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
1038
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 20:49:00 -
[643] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:I've removed some trolling from this thread.
Thread no longer worth reading. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1002
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 20:57:00 -
[644] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:CCP Eterne wrote:I've removed some trolling from this thread. Thread no longer worth reading.
i wonder why? just for the removal or the subject of this thread? R.S.I2014
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Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
353
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 21:09:00 -
[645] - Quote
Last I checked this was a WiS prototype thread.
Oh, and world of darkness, yeah, that's not exactly New. It's based on the RPG that's been going for decades... It's not even.close to.the first videogame version. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1169
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 21:10:00 -
[646] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Soulpirate wrote:WoD is a bad idea imo, never should have tried to jump on the vampire fad with the length of time it takes to produce an MMO. LOL! Someone on TS last night said "Have you been to a bookstore recently? There is a section called "Paranormal teen romance". Its a not one, but two sets of selves". That fad is far from over.
World of Darkness is not part of a "vampire fad", rather a respected RPG franchise. CCP is developing the MMO based upon the classical ruleset of WoD, which already was used (slightly modified) to develop the little jewel known as "Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines". EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1002
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 21:18:00 -
[647] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Last I checked this was a WiS prototype thread.
Oh, and world of darkness, yeah, that's not exactly New. It's based on the RPG that's been going for decades... It's not even.close to.the first videogame version.
WOD was ome of CCP,s ideas . But hey ,CCP got a ton of ideas and promises
R.S.I2014
|
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
353
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 21:57:00 -
[648] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Last I checked this was a WiS prototype thread.
Oh, and world of darkness, yeah, that's not exactly New. It's based on the RPG that's been going for decades... It's not even.close to.the first videogame version. WOD was ome of CCP,s ideas . But hey ,CCP got a ton of ideas and promises Look up a company called White Wolf Publishing MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1650
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 21:58:00 -
[649] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Mars Theran wrote:[quote=Whim Aqayn]
But really, if all there is, is walking around in stations, then CCP would be better devoting there time elsewhere.
Yes lets devote it to planetshooting and console kids ,way to go In an ironic twist, those console kids are asking for WiS. Quite a few of them. They were somehow under the impression that the two games would be connected, if even only social areas to begin with. Some of them are using the PS lounge as a resort because CCP hasn't given them the space within the EVE universe to do such things. If you ask me that allows them to get one foot out the door, if I was CCP I would be making sure they have everything they need to keep them immersed in the EVE verse. I remember the video of the lounge. In it was an NPC that had the look of an EVE avatar with him wearing the same outer coat as I wear. That seems to indicate that CCP has some method for moving graphics assets between the two avatar engines. So we could see Dusters walking in a social area on our computers while they see Eggers walking about on their screen. They may not move exactly the same or look exactly the same, but they would be there. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services Russian International Allegiance
76
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 22:19:00 -
[650] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: WOD was ome of CCP,s ideas . But hey ,CCP got a ton of ideas and promises
Look up a company called White Wolf Publishing
Hmm, White Wolf now being CCP - White Wolf, he's technically not wrong.
EVE Racing (currently on hold) |
|
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
353
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 15:18:00 -
[651] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: WOD was ome of CCP,s ideas . But hey ,CCP got a ton of ideas and promises
Look up a company called White Wolf Publishing Hmm, White Wolf now being CCP - White Wolf, he's technically not wrong. To clarify my point, White Wolf merged into CCP back in 2006. The idea for WoD was around long before that, it wasn't CCPs baby. I would not be suprised of it was part of the merger deal that CCP develop WoD as an MMO.
We are also getting pretty derailed right now, so let's get back on track.
I've had a thought about WiS as a means of investigating derelict structures. You can't vacate the pod, because the ship relies on it for almost all of its functionality. As I mentioned before, this means that a disposable 'remote' clone would be fairly essential. Perhaps a new module, perhaps fueled by biomass, could hold said clone.
You also don't want to simply let your ship drift around while you're in space, because that leaves yourself completely vulnerable and defenceless. So the WiS element needs to combine, at least in part, with the FiS UI. Perhaps a windowed view option? A choice of either the ship or the remote clone as primary with the other in a windowed view perhaps?
As for combat and utility, I think the Mass Effect format could be a good way to go. A full FPS UI isn't required, bit a simplified one would work well, especially if it tied in well with EvEs UI. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Tiber Ibis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 15:42:00 -
[652] - Quote
I really like the idea of making this a space hulk type game. If anyone ever played the games workshop game space hulk then you would know what I mean.
When a facility appears then it would be a matter of time before capsulers pick it up on their scanners. A potentially highly lucrative site would have salvage teams amassing within a short time. Each would breach the hull of the derelict wreck at different points, and then it would be a race against the other players as to who will find the artifacts first. All the while they would be contending with vicious alien life forms, environmental hazards, and other zealous explorers who will do anything to gain the precious artifacts instead of you.
CCP make this game like space hulk and I will give you my money. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1002
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 20:19:00 -
[653] - Quote
The only thing left to do to put these wishing threads come to rest ,is CCP to come clear. So CCP you are going to wait until Fanfest ,to say WIS was once a beautiful idea ,but it is not posible Just say the word and put the wishful thinking at last at rest. Just admit that you were over your head ,with the WIS idea . Just admit that you are unable to implement some sort of meaningful gameplay with WIS, Just admit you are not even capable of some sort multi avatar environment to even make some sort of simple social interacction
WIS will never come to EvE ,bc you just are not capable to do so. in short ,CCP,you failed ...............as expected
Team Avatar failed .so CCP failed
R.S.I2014
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
572
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 20:31:00 -
[654] - Quote
Or they can keep milking money from idiots who pay for a game that doesn't actually exist. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1002
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 20:34:00 -
[655] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Or they can keep milking money from idiots who pay for a game that doesn't actually exist.
Or this ..............! R.S.I2014
|
Tiber Ibis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 21:28:00 -
[656] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The only thing left to do to put these wishing threads come to rest ,is CCP to come clear. So CCP you are going to wait until Fanfest ,to say WIS was once a beautiful idea ,but it is not posible Just say the word and put the wishful thinking at last at rest. Just admit that you were over your head ,with the WIS idea . Just admit that you are unable to implement some sort of meaningful gameplay with WIS, Just admit you are not even capable of some sort multi avatar environment to even make some sort of simple social interacction
WIS will never come to EvE ,bc you just are not capable to do so. in short ,CCP,you failed ...............as expected
Team Avatar failed .so CCP failed
Try reading the initial post before posting next time. CCP Baiysen stated that they are just looking at this idea for the distant future, but it is not in development at the moment. As to whether it is possible in the future, of course it is possible if thats the direction they wanted to go down. But anyone who is subbing to the game right now simply for this feature is seriously deluded. |
Ai Shun
894
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 21:59:00 -
[657] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The only thing left to do to put these wishing threads come to rest ,is CCP to come clear. So CCP you are going to wait until Fanfest ,to say WIS was once a beautiful idea ,but it is not posible Just say the word and put the wishful thinking at last at rest. Just admit that you were over your head ,with the WIS idea . Just admit that you are unable to implement some sort of meaningful gameplay with WIS, Just admit you are not even capable of some sort multi avatar environment to even make some sort of simple social interacction
Of course not. Why would they ditch an idea? EVE Online has been around for a decade. It could be around for another decade. They could implement WiS in 10 years time - it would still reach the market; so why discard it?
From your perspective; what is the business case for WiS? Do you believe it would attract a large number of new subscribers that were never interested in EVE online before? OR do you see it as mostly improving the experience of existing subscribers?
Or - where do you see the money for CCP in doing this?
EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Mars Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
1632
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 02:46:00 -
[658] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Its over there will be no wis project or any avatar game. The spend to long on this project and what do we get. A avatar thats stuck in a room with some basic tools that we already have. You can walk sure. But you can also spin your ship. Dont see the point to work on this. I was fan of the project but let us be real, is that what eve online realy needs? for the world of warcraft people yah the need it but for the x1,2,3 players we dont need it.
So do we realy want a startrek online in eve online? Realy?
Give it a rest. STO is a failure game with no real interesting value. It is not EVE, and nothing in EVE could even come close to that level of bad.
Comparing the two is fricken ridiculous and you should feel fricken ridiculous.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Mirima Thurander
Static Contamination Gathering Of Nomadic Explorers
640
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 03:58:00 -
[659] - Quote
90% of you act like all you want is world of tanks with a space ship theme, and to you all i say is GTFO of my eve, i want this because, i love the idea of things besides space ships, in the EVE UNIVERSE. All automated intel should be removed from the game including jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1261
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 04:04:00 -
[660] - Quote
Nice to see this thread getting some attention again. CCP need to see people really want this.
I really hope they listen, because more Avatar based content could really enrich Eve. It needs to be done right though. It needs to add to the Sandcastle, ie things to be made for it, things to be sold from it, ways to attack people in it and overall interactivity with the other parts of the game.
This prototype fits the bill pretty closely to be honest. Although frankly it would be nice to see a "Corporate Quarters" at some point. With the CSM having let on that the next expansion may have an "exploration" type theme, I have been given a glimmer of home. Let's hope it's not for no good reason. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1003
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 03:32:00 -
[661] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Nice to see this thread getting some attention again. CCP need to see people really want this.
If CCP would care about what people want ,then they should have reacted in this post a couple times more,but they don,t R.S.I2014
|
Shamus O'Reilly
Gungnirs' Point I Know Right
92
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 05:37:00 -
[662] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Arduemont wrote:Nice to see this thread getting some attention again. CCP need to see people really want this.
If CCP would care about what people want ,then they should have reacted in this post a couple times more,but they don,t They said their point. more important things than a totally new idea to be added before this is visited. They said prior in this thread that Team Avatar was split up to work on more important tasks "I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining." |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1004
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 06:20:00 -
[663] - Quote
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Arduemont wrote:Nice to see this thread getting some attention again. CCP need to see people really want this.
If CCP would care about what people want ,then they should have reacted in this post a couple times more,but they don,t They said their point. more important things than a totally new idea to be added before this is visited. They said prior in this thread that Team Avatar was split up to work on more important tasks
Indeed,we have to have happy console kids ,do we.
R.S.I2014
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Ai Shun
895
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 06:34:00 -
[664] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Arduemont wrote:Nice to see this thread getting some attention again. CCP need to see people really want this.
If CCP would care about what people want ,then they should have reacted in this post a couple times more,but they don,t
I'm going to ask you again: What do you see as the business case for WiS?
EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
356
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 08:49:00 -
[665] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Arduemont wrote:Nice to see this thread getting some attention again. CCP need to see people really want this. If CCP would care about what people want ,then they should have reacted in this post a couple times more,but they don,t I'm going to ask you again: What do you see as the business case for WiS? Personally, I see it appealing to a broader audience. Anything that increases options and broadens the possibilities of the sandbox will attract players who were not that into other parts of the game.
It could also open new ISK sinks to help combat the inflation rate. It could increase the use of AUR, thus generating some extra income for CCP. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Ai Shun
895
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 10:08:00 -
[666] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Personally, I see it appealing to a broader audience. Anything that increases options and broadens the possibilities of the sandbox will attract players who were not that into other parts of the game.
So attracting a whole new market to EVE Online that were never part of it?
EVE Ambulation and Avatars as a separate game - see here |
Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
360
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 10:45:00 -
[667] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote:Personally, I see it appealing to a broader audience. Anything that increases options and broadens the possibilities of the sandbox will attract players who were not that into other parts of the game. So attracting a whole new market to EVE Online that were never part of it? As well as encouraging some old players back for something different, yes. I don't feel that needs to be on a different platform or even outside the current client. If it is possible to split a client so that it can switch its functionality from a FiS operation to a WiS operation, then I see that as the means to reduce the workload. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1268
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 11:37:00 -
[668] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote: As well as encouraging some old players back for something different, yes. I don't feel that needs to be on a different platform or even outside the current client. If it is possible to split a client so that it can switch its functionality from a FiS operation to a WiS operation, then I see that as the means to reduce the workload.
When someone told me about this game originally, I told them it didn't sound like my thing because I had only really played games with Avatars. I didn't fancy just being a floating ship in space. He told me they were going to introduce Avatar content and showed me the videos from back in 2007. At which point I thought perhaps I'd give it a go. Four years of unbroken sub later I still want it.
Don't get my wrong, I love Eve. If I didn't I wouldn't have played this long. I am not traditionally a patient person. I am not saying I have spend four years hating a game because I am waiting for Avatar content. But I can empathise with people who wont play because of how dis-attached they would feel from their characters.
Later in the game people get attached to their characters, because they have a history behind them. Friends, enemies, memorable experiences. But a new player doesn't have that attachment, which is where more Avatar content would really be amazing. I know this is a little off subject, but it would be nice if when you create a character you select a "mannerisms" type for them, which would subtly change the way they stood, walked, held a gun. Change their inactive animations etc. It would get rid of the stupid emotes and give a greater richness to gatherings of players.
Anyway. I'm ranting now, so I'll stop. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1005
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 18:36:00 -
[669] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The only thing left to do to put these wishing threads come to rest ,is CCP to come clear. So CCP you are going to wait until Fanfest ,to say WIS was once a beautiful idea ,but it is not posible Just say the word and put the wishful thinking at last at rest. Just admit that you were over your head ,with the WIS idea . Just admit that you are unable to implement some sort of meaningful gameplay with WIS, Just admit you are not even capable of some sort multi avatar environment to even make some sort of simple social interacction
Of course not. Why would they ditch an idea? EVE Online has been around for a decade. It could be around for another decade. They could implement WiS in 10 years time - it would still reach the market; so why discard it? From your perspective; what is the business case for WiS? Do you believe it would attract a large number of new subscribers that were never interested in EVE online before? OR do you see it as mostly improving the experience of existing subscribers? Or - where do you see the money for CCP in doing this?
In ten years EvE is stuck on players with outdated pc gear, hopelessly clinging on a Dead OS Bc of the vast amount of PC dinosaurs Eve will survive and still attract new players and keep the old XP machines running
we all dream .do we? R.S.I2014
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1230
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:02:00 -
[670] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote: As well as encouraging some old players back for something different, yes. I don't feel that needs to be on a different platform or even outside the current client. If it is possible to split a client so that it can switch its functionality from a FiS operation to a WiS operation, then I see that as the means to reduce the workload.
When someone told me about this game originally, I told them it didn't sound like my thing because I had only really played games with Avatars. I didn't fancy just being a floating ship in space. He told me they were going to introduce Avatar content and showed me the videos from back in 2007. At which point I thought perhaps I'd give it a go. Four years of unbroken sub later I still want it. Don't get my wrong, I love Eve. If I didn't I wouldn't have played this long. I am not traditionally a patient person. I am not saying I have spend four years hating a game because I am waiting for Avatar content. But I can empathise with people who wont play because of how dis-attached they would feel from their characters. Later in the game people get attached to their characters, because they have a history behind them. Friends, enemies, memorable experiences. But a new player doesn't have that attachment, which is where more Avatar content would really be amazing. I know this is a little off subject, but it would be nice if when you create a character you select a "mannerisms" type for them, which would subtly change the way they stood, walked, held a gun. Change their inactive animations etc. It would get rid of the stupid emotes and give a greater richness to gatherings of players. Anyway. I'm ranting now, so I'll stop.
I more or less hate emotes. When i think of avatars in a game, my crazest dreams imply not being able to dictate all their actions but them being independent to a point. Your avatar would do his stuff for his AI reasons, always according to the game lore, and you would only have a limited control on the general direction of their virtual life. You would be more of a Jiminy Cricket than an almighty god telling your avatar to "now do the gangnam style" in the middle of a funeral. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1005
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:10:00 -
[671] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Arduemont wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote: As well as encouraging some old players back for something different, yes. I don't feel that needs to be on a different platform or even outside the current client. If it is possible to split a client so that it can switch its functionality from a FiS operation to a WiS operation, then I see that as the means to reduce the workload.
When someone told me about this game originally, I told them it didn't sound like my thing because I had only really played games with Avatars. I didn't fancy just being a floating ship in space. He told me they were going to introduce Avatar content and showed me the videos from back in 2007. At which point I thought perhaps I'd give it a go. Four years of unbroken sub later I still want it. Don't get my wrong, I love Eve. If I didn't I wouldn't have played this long. I am not traditionally a patient person. I am not saying I have spend four years hating a game because I am waiting for Avatar content. But I can empathise with people who wont play because of how dis-attached they would feel from their characters. Later in the game people get attached to their characters, because they have a history behind them. Friends, enemies, memorable experiences. But a new player doesn't have that attachment, which is where more Avatar content would really be amazing. I know this is a little off subject, but it would be nice if when you create a character you select a "mannerisms" type for them, which would subtly change the way they stood, walked, held a gun. Change their inactive animations etc. It would get rid of the stupid emotes and give a greater richness to gatherings of players. Anyway. I'm ranting now, so I'll stop. I more or less hate emotes. When i think of avatars in a game, my crazest dreams imply not being able to dictate all their actions but them being independent to a point. Your avatar would do his stuff for his AI reasons, always according to the game lore, and you would only have a limited control on the general direction of their virtual life. You would be more of a Jiminy Cricket than an almighty god telling your avatar to "now do the gangnam style" in the middle of a funeral.
the funny thing is ,no one asked for emotes. we only want that door to have a lock ,we can open. R.S.I2014
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1231
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:37:00 -
[672] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Arduemont wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote: As well as encouraging some old players back for something different, yes. I don't feel that needs to be on a different platform or even outside the current client. If it is possible to split a client so that it can switch its functionality from a FiS operation to a WiS operation, then I see that as the means to reduce the workload.
When someone told me about this game originally, I told them it didn't sound like my thing because I had only really played games with Avatars. I didn't fancy just being a floating ship in space. He told me they were going to introduce Avatar content and showed me the videos from back in 2007. At which point I thought perhaps I'd give it a go. Four years of unbroken sub later I still want it. Don't get my wrong, I love Eve. If I didn't I wouldn't have played this long. I am not traditionally a patient person. I am not saying I have spend four years hating a game because I am waiting for Avatar content. But I can empathise with people who wont play because of how dis-attached they would feel from their characters. Later in the game people get attached to their characters, because they have a history behind them. Friends, enemies, memorable experiences. But a new player doesn't have that attachment, which is where more Avatar content would really be amazing. I know this is a little off subject, but it would be nice if when you create a character you select a "mannerisms" type for them, which would subtly change the way they stood, walked, held a gun. Change their inactive animations etc. It would get rid of the stupid emotes and give a greater richness to gatherings of players. Anyway. I'm ranting now, so I'll stop. I more or less hate emotes. When i think of avatars in a game, my crazest dreams imply not being able to dictate all their actions but them being independent to a point. Your avatar would do his stuff for his AI reasons, always according to the game lore, and you would only have a limited control on the general direction of their virtual life. You would be more of a Jiminy Cricket than an almighty god telling your avatar to "now do the gangnam style" in the middle of a funeral. the funny thing is ,no one asked for emotes. we only want that door to have a lock ,we can open.
Emotes and "barbie lovers" are of those straw man lies that become real after repeating them 1,000 times. I was not thinking of emotes not even when i stated that I would like to dance with another avatar (those were the times...). EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Whim Aqayn
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:41:00 -
[673] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Arduemont wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote: As well as encouraging some old players back for something different, yes. I don't feel that needs to be on a different platform or even outside the current client. If it is possible to split a client so that it can switch its functionality from a FiS operation to a WiS operation, then I see that as the means to reduce the workload.
When someone told me about this game originally, I told them it didn't sound like my thing because I had only really played games with Avatars. I didn't fancy just being a floating ship in space. He told me they were going to introduce Avatar content and showed me the videos from back in 2007. At which point I thought perhaps I'd give it a go. Four years of unbroken sub later I still want it. Don't get my wrong, I love Eve. If I didn't I wouldn't have played this long. I am not traditionally a patient person. I am not saying I have spend four years hating a game because I am waiting for Avatar content. But I can empathise with people who wont play because of how dis-attached they would feel from their characters. Later in the game people get attached to their characters, because they have a history behind them. Friends, enemies, memorable experiences. But a new player doesn't have that attachment, which is where more Avatar content would really be amazing. I know this is a little off subject, but it would be nice if when you create a character you select a "mannerisms" type for them, which would subtly change the way they stood, walked, held a gun. Change their inactive animations etc. It would get rid of the stupid emotes and give a greater richness to gatherings of players. Anyway. I'm ranting now, so I'll stop. I more or less hate emotes. When i think of avatars in a game, my crazest dreams imply not being able to dictate all their actions but them being independent to a point. Your avatar would do his stuff for his AI reasons, always according to the game lore, and you would only have a limited control on the general direction of their virtual life. You would be more of a Jiminy Cricket than an almighty god telling your avatar to "now do the gangnam style" in the middle of a funeral. the funny thing is ,no one asked for emotes. we only want that door to have a lock ,we can open. Emotes and "barbie lovers" are of those straw man lies that become real after repeating them 1,000 times. I was not thinking of emotes not even when i stated that I would like to dance with another avatar (those were the times...).
It's called orbitting. |
Goldnut Sachs
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 17:48:00 -
[674] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:[quote=Arduemont] I more or less hate emotes. When i think of avatars in a game, my crazest dreams imply not being able to dictate all their actions but them being independent to a point. Your avatar would do his stuff for his AI reasons, always according to the game lore, and you would only have a limited control on the general direction of their virtual life. You would be more of a Jiminy Cricket than an almighty god telling your avatar to "now do the gangnam style" in the middle of a funeral. there's another type of avatar dancing in a mmo not /dance? or you mean those arcade style dance games, hit arrows as they fall like tetris? |
Goldnut Sachs
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 17:54:00 -
[675] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Hakan MacTrew wrote: As well as encouraging some old players back for something different, yes. I don't feel that needs to be on a different platform or even outside the current client. If it is possible to split a client so that it can switch its functionality from a FiS operation to a WiS operation, then I see that as the means to reduce the workload.
When someone told me about this game originally, I told them it didn't sound like my thing because I had only really played games with Avatars. I didn't fancy just being a floating ship in space. He told me they were going to introduce Avatar content and showed me the videos from back in 2007. At which point I thought perhaps I'd give it a go. Four years of unbroken sub later I still want it. Don't get my wrong, I love Eve. If I didn't I wouldn't have played this long. I am not traditionally a patient person. I am not saying I have spend four years hating a game because I am waiting for Avatar content. But I can empathise with people who wont play because of how dis-attached they would feel from their characters. Later in the game people get attached to their characters, because they have a history behind them. Friends, enemies, memorable experiences. But a new player doesn't have that attachment, which is where more Avatar content would really be amazing. I know this is a little off subject, but it would be nice if when you create a character you select a "mannerisms" type for them, which would subtly change the way they stood, walked, held a gun. Change their inactive animations etc. It would get rid of the stupid emotes and give a greater richness to gatherings of players. Anyway. I'm ranting now, so I'll stop. you will never find a better forum portrait maker as good as eve, and THATS where players get attached to their characters. Well you know you take the average fantasy mmo, even though you have avatars and you can literally go to "the inn" and /dance and /wave and emote each other all day but the portrait is much more symbolic and uniquely yours than some shoddy avatar. you know how the wall street journal use an illustrated portrait instead of a picture? |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1235
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 20:14:00 -
[676] - Quote
Goldnut Sachs wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:[quote=Arduemont] I more or less hate emotes. When i think of avatars in a game, my crazest dreams imply not being able to dictate all their actions but them being independent to a point. Your avatar would do his stuff for his AI reasons, always according to the game lore, and you would only have a limited control on the general direction of their virtual life. You would be more of a Jiminy Cricket than an almighty god telling your avatar to "now do the gangnam style" in the middle of a funeral. there's another type of avatar dancing in a mmo not /dance? or you mean those arcade style dance games, hit arrows as they fall like tetris?
I was thinking about synchronized combos i.e. both players pressing the right keys with the right timing so the server renders the appropiate combined animation. Provided that all dance standards are already codified, the limit would be animations and key combinations to trigger them, and the whole synchronization thing. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1008
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 20:14:00 -
[677] - Quote
Goldnut Sachs wrote: you will never find a better forum portrait maker as good as eve,
not for long
http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/base-head-model/
CCP has made a new standard in avatar making,too bad other companies are actually going to use them. R.S.I2014
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1242
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 20:36:00 -
[678] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Graphically, Star Citizen it's going to roll over EVE like a bus. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
65
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 20:55:00 -
[679] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I more or less hate emotes. When i think of avatars in a game, my crazest dreams imply not being able to dictate all their actions but them being independent to a point. Your avatar would do his stuff for his AI reasons, always according to the game lore, and you would only have a limited control on the general direction of their virtual life. You would be more of a Jiminy Cricket than an almighty god telling your avatar to "now do the gangnam style" in the middle of a funeral.
this is intriguing- so if I could extpand on this idea a bit...
it'd be much more like watching a movie your avatar was starring in and when decisions or obstacles presented themselves you'd be able to chose a course of action?
your avatar would then remember past choices and essentially learn it's behavior based upon it's history of events, so that there would be more choices to be made by you the player when you first begin WiS and less as time went by?
would you then only be able to break a pattern of behavior by actively taking a hands on approach once an avatar's personality has begun developing?
is this where AI becomes fully realized in our lifetime? (ohmahgerd- wut has we dern?) |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1242
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 21:52:00 -
[680] - Quote
Mikaila Penshar wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I more or less hate emotes. When i think of avatars in a game, my crazest dreams imply not being able to dictate all their actions but them being independent to a point. Your avatar would do his stuff for his AI reasons, always according to the game lore, and you would only have a limited control on the general direction of their virtual life. You would be more of a Jiminy Cricket than an almighty god telling your avatar to "now do the gangnam style" in the middle of a funeral. this is intriguing- so if I could extpand on this idea a bit... it'd be much more like watching a movie your avatar was starring in and when decisions or obstacles presented themselves you'd be able to chose a course of action? your avatar would then remember past choices and essentially learn it's behavior based upon it's history of events, so that there would be more choices to be made by you the player when you first begin WiS and less as time went by? would you then only be able to break a pattern of behavior by actively taking a hands on approach once an avatar's personality has begun developing? is this where AI becomes fully realized in our lifetime? (ohmahgerd- wut has we dern?)
Huh... not, would not be like that. The player would like "pilot" the avatar over the forces of simulated psychology and socialization, or like a strategist over the tactical avatar behavior.
At the foundations of the system, the avatars would be able to pick wether they liked or don't to engage with another avatar (I already devised a mechanic for that, but it would require extensive fine tuning and software writing skills I lack... i am thinker, not a doer) and the avatar would react accordingly: so maybe the player needs his avatar to be friends with X but the avatar avoids interacting X offline and the online interactions always end bad, so the player beats it and finds a way to pursue his goal without X. Conversely, maybe the avatar sistematically suffers penalties for interacting with Z, and no amout of effort can keep him permanenlty away from Z because he likes engaging Z.
The like/don't like checks would be a black box both to the avatar and the player (that's one of the reasons why it would require extensive testing and tuning to simulate reality appropiatedly) and so decissions would be made upon what the interaction looked like... let's say you log in and find out your avatar met with K on his own and they had a blast. Is K useful to your plans? Should you command your avatar to engage K under your control and learn more of the potential behind that acquitance...?
As you may understand, what i am thinking is something really new, unlike anyhing seen before, and so i am struggling to convey the concept in a foreign language. I apologyze if my words are confusing...
The next level would be "what to accomplish with avatars", as they could be used by the player to trigger events that affected other players. The details still are a bit fuzzy as i stopped working on the concept once i understood that WiS is gone, but maybe the player could trigger the spawn of certain NPCs (or despawn them) in order to gain advantages for him or harm the enemy, or pursue whatever goal.
The key point would be that avatars would be lively, socially interacting, in an universe were what people does to people (be those people players or NPC) drived the drama in par with what ships did to ships. In my crazest dreams, a caress could wipe out a whole fleet.
But that won't happen in EVE. Such big exciting universe, an it's being wasted with some silly shooting at red crosses.
Their loss completely. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
|
Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
66
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 22:05:00 -
[681] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: let's say you log in and find out your avatar met with K on his own and they had a blast
hold on- my avatar is doing stuff when i'm not logged in??
this seems very scary |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1242
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 22:09:00 -
[682] - Quote
Mikaila Penshar wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: let's say you log in and find out your avatar met with K on his own and they had a blast hold on- my avatar is doing stuff when i'm not logged in? ? this seems very scary
Surprise! The other players are playing while you are not logged in, too. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Mikaila Penshar
Take it Deep
67
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 23:12:00 -
[683] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Mikaila Penshar wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: let's say you log in and find out your avatar met with K on his own and they had a blast hold on- my avatar is doing stuff when i'm not logged in? ? this seems very scary Surprise! The other players are playing while you are not logged in, too.
sure they are... because they're logged in and playing... they're not playing when they're not logged in-- that would be just unnatural |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1242
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 23:26:00 -
[684] - Quote
Mikaila Penshar wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Mikaila Penshar wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: let's say you log in and find out your avatar met with K on his own and they had a blast hold on- my avatar is doing stuff when i'm not logged in? ? this seems very scary Surprise! The other players are playing while you are not logged in, too. sure they are... because they're logged in and playing... they're not playing when they're not logged in-- that would be just unnatural
Don't use it, then. Won't be talking about "natural" stuff in the land of self-spawning minerals. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Goldnut Sachs
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 06:43:00 -
[685] - Quote
is it like botting? |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1243
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 13:27:00 -
[686] - Quote
Goldnut Sachs wrote:is it like botting?
The avatar wouldn't play instead of the player. It would just spawn/despawn resources for avatar gameplay. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1268
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 14:37:00 -
[687] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Goldnut Sachs wrote:is it like botting? The avatar wouldn't play instead of the player. It would just spawn/despawn resources for avatar gameplay.
I cringe at some of the things fellow WiS supporters say in this thread quite regularly. Its difficult enough to be taken seriously with people talking about wanting more make up options, and wanting tea parties...
Asking for The Sims in space is really not helping our case. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Goldnut Sachs
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 15:21:00 -
[688] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Goldnut Sachs wrote:is it like botting? The avatar wouldn't play instead of the player. It would just spawn/despawn resources for avatar gameplay. I don't understand that. You know how many characters exist? That would be a terrible waste of server resources to keep all them avatars running ingame, even if you take only the subbed ones, and 1 character per account. |
Goldnut Sachs
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 15:26:00 -
[689] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: we will see how they will render say 50 avatars of that level on decent $600 gaming pcs. |
Alice Saki
Suddenly Spaced Out Suddenly Spaceships.
33235
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 15:29:00 -
[690] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Goldnut Sachs wrote:is it like botting? The avatar wouldn't play instead of the player. It would just spawn/despawn resources for avatar gameplay. I cringe at some of the things fellow WiS supporters say in this thread quite regularly. Its difficult enough to be taken seriously with people talking about wanting more make up options, and wanting tea parties... Asking for The Sims in space is really not helping our case.
Tbf I want the Whole Exiting Ship and Exploring an Abandon Station Etc etc
But I also Want all that 'Barbie' Stuff...
Even if the door just opens to a Poker table would be good enough. Thanks Zimmy!! <3 (Updated) |
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3700
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 15:50:00 -
[691] - Quote
Yes, there are many interesting ways this could be made unique to EvE.
However I'd be happy with what would basically amount to a port of the game engine (etc.) and basic game play of DUST from PS to PC, with wrecks, stations, and ships for the maps. Obviously equipment and game play options would be tweaked to more appropriately fit the EvE environment.
When you go EVA at a ruined station facility (for example) your EvE client would then fire up the appropriate game engine and your game play would then be transfered to it instead after a few seconds of load time. Pertinent details of equipment, location, etc. would be handed over from the EvE client just as information is handed over from your PS when playing DUST.
Do the EVA thing, then when you go to board your ship again the appropriate information is sent back to EvE and the FPS client is shut back down.
The only downside is that technically you would be going from the famous non-instanced client of EvE to the instanced environment used in DUST, and PR wise that could cause some issues. It depends on how this aspect of game play is presented to the public I suppose.
I'm not advocating DUST be released on PC (at least not unless it is in the cards for the future anyway, which is likely). Rather using much of the same tech to achieve a similar environment for EvE Avatars. Of course, the eventual goal will be for more and more cross over between EvE Avatar game play and DUST game play, and between players on PS and players of PC's.
I'm sure there are good reasons why this route was not taken, I'm not trying to second guess CCP, but it would have been nice if things had gone this route. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Goldnut Sachs
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 16:20:00 -
[692] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Goldnut Sachs wrote:is it like botting? The avatar wouldn't play instead of the player. It would just spawn/despawn resources for avatar gameplay. I cringe at some of the things fellow WiS supporters say in this thread quite regularly. Its difficult enough to be taken seriously with people talking about wanting more make up options, and wanting tea parties... Asking for The Sims in space is really not helping our case. Tbf I want the Whole Exiting Ship and Exploring an Abandon Station Etc etc But I also Want all that 'Barbie' Stuff... Even if the door just opens to a Poker table would be good enough. Didn't somebody claim that the barbie lover trollers were only fighting their own shadow or something? Take that back. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1271
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 17:20:00 -
[693] - Quote
Goldnut Sachs wrote: Didn't somebody claim that the barbie lover trollers were only fighting their own shadow or something? Take that back.
To be fair, they really are fighting their own shadow. Why come onto threads where CCP have specifically said they never want to introduce emotes, and threads devoted to space exploration, and combat and say "No Barbie stuff!!!! WiS Stations is bad! So there!"
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1670
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 17:22:00 -
[694] - Quote
Ive been wondering about this entire "uprising" thing CCP is doing. Quite a bit of it seems to be taking place in stations. Protesters, troops containing protesters, executives quitting, and so on. At the moment its all a "Live event cutscene", not something we can interact with. We got to wait for it to spill out into space.
It seems like we should be able to interact and influence the events that are happening in the station. For that to happen, we got to be able to actually get out that door and into the station. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1008
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 17:49:00 -
[695] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Goldnut Sachs wrote: Didn't somebody claim that the barbie lover trollers were only fighting their own shadow or something? Take that back.
To be fair, they really are fighting their own shadow. Why come onto threads where CCP have specifically said they never want to introduce emotes, and threads devoted to space exploration, and combat and say "No Barbie stuff!!!! WiS Stations is bad! So there!". Besides, what the person you quoted means by barbie stuff and what everyone else means, I think, is actually quite different.
i don,t care if there will be emoting ,but like i said before ,everybody has different ideas about WIS after all this time and all these promises of blogs and content CCP made . Having a different idea does not make them a troll , the only ones who is are trolling are the devs that promised so much about WIS.
R.S.I2014
|
Calathorn Virpio
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
8
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 17:52:00 -
[696] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Back at the end of February CCP t0rfifrans announced Team Avatar and that one of our priorities was prototyping, specifically to: "...create playable gameplay prototypes of gameplay features and try them out within the team, and within the company... The purpose of all this prototyping is to make sure we provide a strong vision for avatar gameplay, have a good demonstrable idea of why it is engaging and better understand the technology we will need to create in order to make it a reality." The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information! Extra-Vehicular Activity, Wrecks and ExplorationThere has been an idea kicking around CCP for a long time now about an ideal starting point for avatar gameplay. That is exploring hazardous environments in order to get awesome stuff. Think scanning down a site before entering it in order to find and salvage artifacts, technology and other goodies. Sounds straightforward and it would be but for the dangerous nature of delving into long lost places where time has taken its toll on the structure and the previous owners may not have left things in a benign state. In true EVE style throw in the added dangers of lurking competition and things have a chance to go south fast. The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few. Over three months we concentrated on the minute by minute gameplay of actually being inside a long abandoned structure, the hazards that it would contain and how the players might deal with them and any uninvited guests. We used the Unity engine which is a great game engine for prototyping in as it lets us create environments and gameplay very, very fast and iterate on it equally quickly. A lot of our art is much more abstract (a "grey box") than youGÇÖd see in a final game. This is due to us concentrating on the gameplay first and foremost whilst also recognizing that ambience plays an important role in how a game feels. We do throw in the occasional EVE asset here and there for flavor but those are not descriptive of any final theming or style. The gameplay premise is simple, players move through our abandoned structures with their fitted Extra-Vehicular Activity suit, using their wits, tools and teammates to deal with the hazardous environment. Some of us are enthusiastically and maliciously killing teammates for personal gain. WeGÇÖve even allowed two teams into the environment to really let all hell break loose. ItGÇÖs a part of the EVE UniverseThere have been a lot of questions on the forums about how this integrates with EVE. Whilst this isnGÇÖt the core focus for us at the moment it is something we are thinking about long and hard. Like DUST514, this part of EVE should contribute to the overall economy as well as supporting its own ecosystem. Right now weGÇÖre thinking that these abandoned structures are so dangerous, radioactive and toxic, that they can only be entered with special suits. Obviously with access to clones you arenGÇÖt worried about radiation and long term health effects of hazardous lifestyles. You probably all smoke and eat lots of bacon as well and besides robots wonGÇÖt survive the violent EM fields. Robot electronics would toast, thus only teams using gear that involves crude electronics, like found in EM resistant military hardware can go in and recover the technology that lies within. One example of a link with EVE gameplay weGÇÖre thinking of would be to put implant manufacture into the hands of players and making avatar gameplay part of the resource gathering chain it has. We want to make Avatar gameplay a viable and vibrant part of the Universe without forcing anyone that doesnGÇÖt want to use it from having to use it. A benefit from the EVA game is that a lot of the technology that would need to be developed to properly deliver the EVA experience would be directly useful in providing social areas and tools in stations. That just sounds like one idea...We decided to concentrate in depth on the one idea that has kept resurfacing from lots of different places within the company. WeGÇÖve had several others and collected a lot both internally and from the forums. One example would be a Station based espionage system. The beauty of the EVE Universe is that these ideas arenGÇÖt mutually exclusive for the most part. So whilst I think we are fairly sure of the initial gameplay direction there is lots of scope for expansion.
YAY!! this would rock
might i suggest using the slow burn lore as an excuse to randomize these rooms everytime someone dies or returns? if your clone didn't remember what killed them, you can get away with changing it every time
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1008
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 17:58:00 -
[697] - Quote
Goldnut Sachs wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: we will see how they will render say 50 avatars of that level on decent $600 gaming pcs.
Not all of the gaming companies will mess up their gamingsoftware R.S.I2014
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1245
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 20:50:00 -
[698] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Goldnut Sachs wrote:is it like botting? The avatar wouldn't play instead of the player. It would just spawn/despawn resources for avatar gameplay. I cringe at some of the things fellow WiS supporters say in this thread quite regularly. Its difficult enough to be taken seriously with people talking about wanting more make up options, and wanting tea parties... Asking for The Sims in space is really not helping our case.
Yay, The Sims, exactly, add that to the bucket of mischaracterizations, like i needed any more...
If i was thinking about the Sims, i would be talking about the Sims. I don't know what features are in the Sims, but I bet that they don't rely on blackboxed offline social interactions to spawn potential pawns for their use in political strategy games against other players in a single shard persistent universe. EVE is Serious Business: You shall not feel entitled to being allowed to play EVE just because you are paying it. |
Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
146
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 23:09:00 -
[699] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:one thing about EVE is that you are only ever fully safe when docked or logged off.
Or AFK cloaked.
Seriously though, sounds awesome. "Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus |
Flamespar
Woof Club
545
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 02:59:00 -
[700] - Quote
So as many of you know, CCP is hosting a number of Q&A sessions as outlined in this dev blog
I really encourage all those who are wanting more compelling avatar gameplay to log into the livestream and ask CCP for some answers. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Calathorn Virpio
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
44
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 04:06:00 -
[701] - Quote
well, the dust forums have nothing on y'all for creating a threadnought CCP are the French gate camping=/=PVP everything else is fair game |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1330
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 05:02:00 -
[702] - Quote
Calathorn Virpio wrote:well, the dust forums have nothing on y'all for creating a threadnought
Most thought through OPs on the topic of WiS seed threadnaughts. Testament to the popularity and the appeal of the idea. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative.
483
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 07:38:00 -
[703] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Calathorn Virpio wrote:well, the dust forums have nothing on y'all for creating a threadnought Most thought through OPs on the topic of WiS seed threadnaughts. Testament to the popularity and the appeal of the idea. to be fair, 35 pages is hardly a "threadnaught", maybe a baby-battlestar, but not a full-fledged self-sustaining monolith of excruciating opinion yet. once we hit 50-60 pages, THEN were entering capital territory. |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
926
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 08:40:00 -
[704] - Quote
OK, so we don't want SIMS in space - how about SIM Spacestation? |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 09:23:00 -
[705] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:to be fair, 35 pages is hardly a "threadnaught", maybe a baby-battlestar, but not a full-fledged self-sustaining monolith of excruciating opinion yet. once we hit 50-60 pages, THEN were entering capital territory.
That was awesome, "self-sustaining monolith of excruciating opinion " hat me in tears Thanks, for that, You saved my day. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Demica Diaz
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 11:29:00 -
[706] - Quote
Yes please! Exploring not just from spaceship point of view always intrigued me. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1445
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 12:56:00 -
[707] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Arduemont wrote:Calathorn Virpio wrote:well, the dust forums have nothing on y'all for creating a threadnought Most thought through OPs on the topic of WiS seed threadnaughts. Testament to the popularity and the appeal of the idea. to be fair, 35 pages is hardly a "threadnaught", maybe a baby-battlestar, but not a full-fledged self-sustaining monolith of excruciating opinion yet. once we hit 50-60 pages, THEN were entering capital territory.
Are 221 pages enough for you?
And how about 29 pages at Features & Ideas?
Or 33 pages devoted to improving the CQ?
You bet we did much enough to tell CCP. My only consolation is to see that holy cow features are being delayed too: Modular POSes? HAH! Nullsec fixes? HAH-HAH!!
Misery loves company... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Tiberius StarGazer
StarGazer Heavy Industries And Exploration
352
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 13:22:00 -
[708] - Quote
I have only one thing to say on this, but why not have PvE Dust Marines run around these structures for us?
Fly ship in, dock it to structure, open dust contract, dust marines pick it up, then shoot NPC's while dust marines run round the structure shooting drones / sleeprs / whatever collecting goods.
You pick them up, job done.
I dont get why this has to be seperate from the FPS shooter thats already mostly developed? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1741
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 13:26:00 -
[709] - Quote
I did not expect this thread to come back, but as long as it did..
CCP, the new expansion contains new exploration content. Will that include wreck diving? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1330
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 13:32:00 -
[710] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:Arduemont wrote:Calathorn Virpio wrote:well, the dust forums have nothing on y'all for creating a threadnought Most thought through OPs on the topic of WiS seed threadnaughts. Testament to the popularity and the appeal of the idea. to be fair, 35 pages is hardly a "threadnaught", maybe a baby-battlestar, but not a full-fledged self-sustaining monolith of excruciating opinion yet. once we hit 50-60 pages, THEN were entering capital territory. Are 221 pages enough for you? And how about 29 pages at Features & Ideas? Or 33 pages devoted to improving the CQ? You bet we did much enough to tell CCP. My only consolation is to see that holy cow features are being delayed too: Modular POSes? HAH! Nullsec fixes? HAH-HAH!! Misery loves company...
Don't forget 51. There are more. WiS threads become threadnaughts all the time, and frankly most of them refuse to die. There are more, but I'm not going to trawl the forums for them. I just knew that last one was missed for an obvious reason. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1445
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 13:50:00 -
[711] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:Arduemont wrote:Calathorn Virpio wrote:well, the dust forums have nothing on y'all for creating a threadnought Most thought through OPs on the topic of WiS seed threadnaughts. Testament to the popularity and the appeal of the idea. to be fair, 35 pages is hardly a "threadnaught", maybe a baby-battlestar, but not a full-fledged self-sustaining monolith of excruciating opinion yet. once we hit 50-60 pages, THEN were entering capital territory. Are 221 pages enough for you? And how about 29 pages at Features & Ideas? Or 33 pages devoted to improving the CQ? You bet we did much enough to tell CCP. My only consolation is to see that holy cow features are being delayed too: Modular POSes? HAH! Nullsec fixes? HAH-HAH!! Misery loves company... Don't forget 51. There are more. WiS threads become threadnaughts all the time, and frankly most of them refuse to die. There are more, but I'm not going to trawl the forums for them. I just knew that last one was missed for an obvious reason.
Yes, that one too. Whatever CCP does or doesn't does on WiS, it will not be because of a lack of player interest. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Ghazu
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 14:17:00 -
[712] - Quote
what about the debates between dudes emoting each other and meaningful gameplay camps? http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1742
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 14:30:00 -
[713] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:what about the debates between dudes emoting each other and meaningful gameplay camps? Who asked for the first? CCP has even said they have not programmed in any emotes. So in this "debate" who is on the first side? The closest is requests for public spaces for role players. But they tend to describe actions in text, and are usually in ships flying around doing something. CCP has said that public spaces in stations are about as much work as a WiS feature with game play, so most likely we will get them only a sub-feature to any more meaningful WiS feature. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1107
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 14:47:00 -
[714] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Yes, that one too. Whatever CCP does or doesn't does on WiS, it will not be because of a lack of player interest.
Sure...there's a lack of interest.
The whole idea behind WiS was new content plus RMT. CCP failed on the technical aspect of WiS so badly most people don't want it because most people's computers can barely render one avatar and a jail cell of a room. The NeX was a complete flop because someone at CCP divined that it would be a good idea to have poorly designed items and little selection with astronomical price points for what it is. On top of that none of it is destructible which is kind of a prerequisite for such insane pricing.
And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....the development of WiS at the expense of the rest of the game while the rest of the players languished with broken mechanics and a serious lack of content. WiS in and of itself didn't make the community come to hate it.....CCP did because it was the nexus for lack of game development, RMT with every indication it would become P2W and crap development of it all.
After such a fiasco of concept, design and execution.....why why why on this God's green Earth would anyone still have an interest in WiS? HTFU!...for the children! |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 15:30:00 -
[715] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote: And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....
No. CCP put a hold on WiS because the community was pissed about it for no reason (WAAAAH! I wanna spin my ship until I feel sick!), not the other way around. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3859
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 15:46:00 -
[716] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Yes, that one too. Whatever CCP does or doesn't does on WiS, it will not be because of a lack of player interest.
Sure...there's a lack of interest. The whole idea behind WiS was new content plus RMT. CCP failed on the technical aspect of WiS so badly most people don't want it because most people's computers can barely render one avatar and a jail cell of a room. The NeX was a complete flop because someone at CCP divined that it would be a good idea to have poorly designed items and little selection with astronomical price points for what it is. On top of that none of it is destructible which is kind of a prerequisite for such insane pricing. And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....the development of WiS at the expense of the rest of the game while the rest of the players languished with broken mechanics and a serious lack of content. WiS in and of itself didn't make the community come to hate it.....CCP did because it was the nexus for lack of game development, RMT with every indication it would become P2W and crap development of it all. You really have to wonder if it just wasn't a prototyping for a RMT system solely for WoD or other CCP developments completely at our expense. After such a fiasco of concept, design and execution.....why why why on this God's green Earth would anyone still have an interest in WiS? Because the core concept is sound, and if handled properly could add a lot of interesting game play to EvE. I won't argue that there were an awful lot of bad decisions made along the way. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1331
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 16:29:00 -
[717] - Quote
Quoting someone coming into a thread filled with people asking for more WiS content, who says no one wants WiS content. The past is irrelevant at this point. CCP have addressed all the concerns we had at the time and none of them are going to happen again. Now... for some meaningful game play. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ghazu
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 16:29:00 -
[718] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Mr Kidd wrote: And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....
No. CCP put a hold on WiS because the community was pissed about it for no reason (WAAAAH! I wanna spin my ship until I feel sick!), not the other way around. uh how about i don't want to waste the extra 20 seconds it takes to load up a useless dogshit "feature" that is the cq. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1331
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 16:34:00 -
[719] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Debora Tsung wrote:Mr Kidd wrote: And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....
No. CCP put a hold on WiS because the community was pissed about it for no reason (WAAAAH! I wanna spin my ship until I feel sick!), not the other way around. uh how about i don't want to waste the extra 20 seconds it takes to load up a useless dogshit "feature" that is the cq.
Well then turn it off. Why should everyone else suffer a lack of something they want just because your too lazy to tick a damn box? "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ghazu
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 16:37:00 -
[720] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ghazu wrote:Debora Tsung wrote:Mr Kidd wrote: And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....
No. CCP put a hold on WiS because the community was pissed about it for no reason (WAAAAH! I wanna spin my ship until I feel sick!), not the other way around. uh how about i don't want to waste the extra 20 seconds it takes to load up a useless dogshit "feature" that is the cq. Well then turn it off. Why should everyone else suffer a lack of something they want just because your too lazy to tick a damn box? Yeah I know right? why didn't Incarna launch with an off option? Is it so hard to understand that some of us are not barbie freaks? http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1331
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 16:40:00 -
[721] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Arduemont wrote:Ghazu wrote:Debora Tsung wrote:Mr Kidd wrote: And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....
No. CCP put a hold on WiS because the community was pissed about it for no reason (WAAAAH! I wanna spin my ship until I feel sick!), not the other way around. uh how about i don't want to waste the extra 20 seconds it takes to load up a useless dogshit "feature" that is the cq. Well then turn it off. Why should everyone else suffer a lack of something they want just because your too lazy to tick a damn box? Yeah I know right? why didn't Incarna launch with an off option? Is it so hard to understand that some of us are not barbie freaks?
I don't even know why I reply to you sometimes.Your such a troll. 90% of your posts don't make any damn sense, and the ones that do are either offensive or just plain idiotic. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
689
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 16:42:00 -
[722] - Quote
Why don't you go cry in your room and play dress-up with your dolls about it? |
Alexa Coates
Federation Navy Assembly Group LLC
344
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 16:50:00 -
[723] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Why don't you go cry in your room and play dress-up with your dolls about it? because every game with a custom characters is a barbie game.
guess fallout is a barbie game and mass effect and borderlands and tf2 and dota 2 and grand theft auto and saints row and fuckin' arma right?
this excuse is always ******* stupid please kill yourself. That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3861
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 16:53:00 -
[724] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Why don't you go cry in your room and play dress-up with your dolls about it? because every game with a custom characters is a barbie game. guess fallout is a barbie game and mass effect and borderlands and tf2 and dota 2 and grand theft auto and saints row and fuckin' arma right? this excuse is always ******* stupid please kill yourself. I dunno, I kind of enjoy it when the mentally challenged bring up that argument.
It makes me feel superior without having to put any real effort into it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3861
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 16:57:00 -
[725] - Quote
Quote:Yeah I know right? why didn't Incarna launch with an off option? Is it so hard to understand that some of us are not barbie freaks?
We asked for it and it was added. Did you intend to have a point? To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
141
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 17:07:00 -
[726] - Quote
If anyone from CCP is still monitoring these threads; Could you at least release some new clothes. And I mean new, not just recolors of what we already have. There was that some sort of S/M catsuit on the test server that never resurfaced. And plenty of other ones. I think I heard a claim there were well over a hundred of clothing items out there, what is the point of keeping them locked away if you already made them.
And yeah if you're listening please keep working on WIS content in general. If just one day in a month you could devote yourself to it. A lot of people still want to open that door. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative.
485
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 17:43:00 -
[727] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:If anyone from CCP is still monitoring these threads; Could you at least release some new clothes. And I mean new, not just recolors of what we already have. There was that some sort of S/M catsuit on the test server that never resurfaced. And plenty of other ones. I think I heard a claim there were well over a hundred of clothing items out there, what is the point of keeping them locked away if you already made them.
And yeah if you're listening please keep working on WIS content in general. If just one day in a month you could devote yourself to it. A lot of people still want to open that door. Personally i just want some shoes that are actual combat/utility boots, instead of wedges/heels. not any real reason beyond that i think heels and wedges look stupid/horrible and im glad as hell my GF thinks so too, wouldnt have been able to take her to our prom back in high school if she had worn them (serioulsy, to me, heels are as ugly as plaid is to the majority of Earth).
Heres an idea, girls get the option for normal shoes and losing that extra 3'' in height, and guys get kilts so they can feel the refreshing station breeze when pubs/taverns/bars are released. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1431
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 17:59:00 -
[728] - Quote
The vocal pro-WIS people should really all get together regarding their "message" if they don't like being lumped-together collectively as "Barbie lovers".
There were just 2 more posts in a row asking CCP to deliver more dress-up items. The funny thing is, no one can see your damn shoes or clothes except for you, so how exactly does that equate to increasing subs, revenue, or adding meaningful, playable content to the game?
Lets divert Dev resources to shoe and trouser gazing! The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1744
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 18:26:00 -
[729] - Quote
Quote:Yeah I know right? why didn't Incarna launch with an off option? Is it so hard to understand that some of us are not barbie freaks?
It did launch with an off option. True it did just you a static view of the door with the hangar view returning later, but you could turn off loading of the CQ from day one.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3864
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 18:36:00 -
[730] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:The vocal pro-WIS people should really all get together regarding their "message" if they don't like being lumped-together collectively as "Barbie lovers".
There were just 2 more posts in a row asking CCP to deliver more dress-up items. The funny thing is, no one can see your damn shoes or clothes except for you, so how exactly does that equate to increasing subs, revenue, or adding meaningful, playable content to the game?
Lets divert Dev resources to shoe and trouser gazing! Well, that's a little unrealistic.
You don't see the pro "spaceship only" crowd in harmonious agreement on how the spaceship side of the game should be handled. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
|
Ghazu
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 18:37:00 -
[731] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Quote:Yeah I know right? why didn't Incarna launch with an off option? Is it so hard to understand that some of us are not barbie freaks? It did launch with an off option. True it did just you a static view of the door with the hangar view returning later, but you could turn off loading of the CQ from day one. wow you are pretty desperate. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
143
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 18:42:00 -
[732] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: There were just 2 more posts in a row asking CCP to deliver more dress-up items.
....That already exist as art assets but have not been released for whatever unfathomable reason. Kind of a key difference there. Also, other people can see them from the full body avatar button in the game, if we want to get technical here - other people certainly can see them too.
Anyway, I'll ignore the rest of your very tired trolling. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3864
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 18:45:00 -
[733] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Quote:Yeah I know right? why didn't Incarna launch with an off option? Is it so hard to understand that some of us are not barbie freaks? It did launch with an off option. True it did just you a static view of the door with the hangar view returning later, but you could turn off loading of the CQ from day one. wow you are pretty desperate. He's also pretty accurate.
CCP "did" manage to underestimate the segment of the population that obsesses on spining pixels however... but really, who'd a thunk it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ghazu
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 19:52:00 -
[734] - Quote
so back to making dudes emoting each other jokes if you want to roll like that. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
|
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2133
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 21:38:00 -
[735] - Quote
Thread cleaned slightly, please try to make your points without insulting each other!
Thanks ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
552
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 21:52:00 -
[736] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote: ....That already exist as art assets but have not been released for whatever unfathomable reason.
I find it quite fathomable.
CCP thought we were stupid and would pay stupid amount of money for Barbie clothes for our toons.
We demonstrated our displeasure with their incorrect assumptions by dropping our subscriptions in large numbers.
Now the over priced Barbie clothes are a 3rd rail that CCP would rather not go near again, lest that anger resurface.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3870
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 21:58:00 -
[737] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Teinyhr wrote: ....That already exist as art assets but have not been released for whatever unfathomable reason.
I find it quite fathomable. CCP thought we were stupid and would pay stupid amount of money for Barbie clothes for our toons. We demonstrated our displeasure with their incorrect assumptions by dropping our subscriptions in large numbers. Now the over priced Barbie clothes are a 3rd rail that CCP would rather not go near again, lest that anger resurface. There is, unfortunately, some truth in that statement. Releasing them would probably stir things up a bit even now. When CCP does start releasing ANYTHING related to the NEX store they will have to be absolutely certain that they have their duck in a row or risk another troll manipulated uproar.
I have to say though that I sincerely doubt that out of all the issues that were being used to whip the mob into a frenzy that the price of the clothing was a major factor in subscription loss. If that were true then we have a lot more people secretly yearning for affordable "barbie clothing" than are willing to admit it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1432
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 22:16:00 -
[738] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Teinyhr wrote: ....That already exist as art assets but have not been released for whatever unfathomable reason.
I find it quite fathomable. CCP thought we were stupid and would pay stupid amount of money for Barbie clothes for our toons. We demonstrated our displeasure with their incorrect assumptions by dropping our subscriptions in large numbers. Now the over priced Barbie clothes are a 3rd rail that CCP would rather not go near again, lest that anger resurface.
That, and they'd have to support that new (vanity only) content and iterate it should there be any problems.
CCP has enough unfinished content on their plate already that needs iterated.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
547
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 22:58:00 -
[739] - Quote
**** shoes. I wanna explore ruins and lock people inside.
Don't forget to ask CCP about the future of avatars on the live stream.
Also, what happened to tattoos? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1107
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 01:25:00 -
[740] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Mr Kidd wrote: And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....
No. CCP put a hold on WiS because the community was pissed about it for no reason (WAAAAH! I wanna spin my ship until I feel sick!), not the other way around.
No, there was definitely more to it than just being pissed for no reason.
Lets see, CQ was a forced feature that ran some people's computers into the ground and was completely divergent from space ship game play....read that as annoying as hell for quick docking/undocking especially if you're frame rate dropped from 50fps to 5fps.
The NeX was exclusionary. Regardless of people's opinions towards space barbie dolls the fact that most items were over $20 a piece placed the entire avatar experience in jeopardy since many people cannot afford or will not afford to blow +$100 playing dressup. Those price points were absurd. Compound that with indestructible items and it detracts from game play, not enhance it. The overall opinion for those in the two categories mentioned was that their game play was suffering at the expense of features that they couldn't or wouldn't justify. Hence it was exclusionary. A simple solution would have been to make the MT actually micro and the items destructible with auto-buy options. CCP would have been lining the pockets of their $1,000 jeans with cash from that model. And chances are, that even people who didn't care about space barbie would have eventually participated to some extent.
Instead of reallocating resources to 1) advance the mainstay game play and 2) fix WiS, CCP just shelved WiS development. As it stands now it's a blemish on the game and a in game live testament to CCP's failure to both its execution and its resolution. The avatars still don't render properly. That's what I call quitting.
As to why CCP has abandoned both WiS and the NeX, IDK. It's easy to say that it was because of what the players wanted. I find that extremely hard to believe given the investment that CCP made even at those same players' expense. The only obvious reason is that WiS, technologically was a complete failure and they reached some technical impasse or it was just an alpha test for WoD with CCP having no intentions to completing it. Now, what happened behind the scenes, I've no idea. Do they have some licensing that expired? Is NeX the sole domain of another company? Did they develop the alpha version and then solely license the tech to another company preventing further development in game? No clue. But, I do see a lot of potential there that would not require any significant development to implement. And yet, CCP lets that resource and potential income stream be completely orphaned. Nah, there's too much that doesn't add up to be solely for the players' benefit that CCP changed directions entirely. There are a number of ways it could have been handled to both satiate the playerbase and develop a proper secondary income stream from the game. HTFU!...for the children! |
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1331
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 05:02:00 -
[741] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: CCP has enough unfinished content on their plate already that needs iterated.
Those cloths are not "unfinnished". They're completely done, and working, they just don't have a price plan. They were talking about in the CSM minutes (not the last one, the one before that). CCP Reddawn confirms this in one of the threads I linked on the last page. They could probably set up a meeting to agree prices and release them in an hour or so.
I don't even really care about cloths. I want meaningful Avatar content. But, if they're done they should get released if only to show that CCP haven't abandoned another feature.
Mr Kidd wrote:Irrelevant stuff.
I'll get to this later. I am off to work. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Apricot Baby
caldariprimeponyclub
59
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 05:20:00 -
[742] - Quote
I will just leave these here...
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/CPPC/cppc_apricots_odyssey.jpg http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/CPPC/eve_character_hello_kitty_jacket.png http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/CPPC/cppc_caption_and_shop_competition.png
CSM Participation Reward Program - www.tinyurl.com/caldariprimeponyclub Earn rewards for taking part in this year's CSM Elections |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 07:59:00 -
[743] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Debora Tsung wrote:Mr Kidd wrote: And to compound the utter disaster to deliver on expectations for WiS, CCP did it at the expense of the overall game for 18mos and then just quit. That is what pissed off the community....
No. CCP put a hold on WiS because the community was pissed about it for no reason (WAAAAH! I wanna spin my ship until I feel sick!), not the other way around. uh how about i don't want to waste the extra 20 seconds it takes to load up a useless dogshit "feature" that is the cq.
then turn the darn thing of, it can't be to difficult for You to set a simple check box. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 08:39:00 -
[744] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote: No, there was definitely more to it than just being pissed for no reason.
Lets see, CQ was a forced feature that ran some people's computers into the ground and was completely divergent from space ship game play....read that as annoying as hell for quick docking/undocking especially if you're frame rate dropped from 50fps to 5fps.
The NeX was exclusionary. Regardless of people's opinions towards space barbie dolls the fact that most items were over $20 a piece placed the entire avatar experience in jeopardy since many people cannot afford or will not afford to blow +$100 playing dressup. Those price points were absurd. Compound that with indestructible items and it detracts from game play, not enhance it. The overall opinion for those in the two categories mentioned was that their game play was suffering at the expense of features that they couldn't or wouldn't justify. Hence it was exclusionary. A simple solution would have been to make the MT actually micro and the items destructible with auto-buy options. CCP would have been lining the pockets of their $1,000 jeans with cash from that model. And chances are, that even people who didn't care about space barbie would have eventually participated to some extent.
Instead of reallocating resources to 1) advance the mainstay game play and 2) fix WiS, CCP just shelved WiS development. As it stands now it's a blemish on the game and a in game live testament to CCP's failure to both its execution and its resolution. The avatars still don't render properly. That's what I call quitting.
As to why CCP has abandoned both WiS and the NeX, IDK. It's easy to say that it was because of what the players wanted. I find that extremely hard to believe given the investment that CCP made even at those same players' expense. The only obvious reason is that WiS, technologically was a complete failure and they reached some technical impasse or it was just an alpha test for WoD with CCP having no intentions to completing it. Now, what happened behind the scenes, I've no idea. Do they have some licensing that expired? Is NeX the sole domain of another company? Did they develop the alpha version and then solely license the tech to another company preventing further development in game? No clue. But, I do see a lot of potential there that would not require any significant development to implement. And yet, CCP lets that resource and potential income stream be completely orphaned. Nah, there's too much that doesn't add up to be solely for the players' benefit that CCP changed directions entirely. There are a number of ways it could have been handled to both satiate the playerbase and develop a proper secondary income stream from the game.
Bah, the Forum ate my post
In the end it all sums up to one thing: Lots of stupid people started whining about Wis for no reason. No reason at all. And WiS was shelved because of that and no other reason. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 08:41:00 -
[745] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:**** shoes. I wanna explore ruins and lock people inside.
That would be awesome There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
548
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 08:41:00 -
[746] - Quote
Just goes to show that CCP could go a long way towards restoring confidence by showing that the Incarna engine can render multiple avatars in real time. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
neur0zen
Perkone Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 10:19:00 -
[747] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:The purpose of all this prototyping is to make sure we provide a strong vision for avatar gameplay,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC0lXTW5g0E
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI53ydJaus8
I want to believe ! |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1109
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 12:23:00 -
[748] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Bah, the Forum ate my post In the end it all sums up to one thing: Lots of stupid people started whining about Wis for no reason. No reason at all. And WiS was shelved because of that and no other reason.
If you want to believe it was purely because of player dissatisfaction then believe it. I do not. CCP spent, at least 18 months on it. That's a huge investment to completely write off. I don't know how much they spent but I'm sure it was over a million dollars to implement it and then quit it. So, if writing off that large of an investment due to player dissatisfaction is enough for you, wonderful.
Flamespar wrote: Just goes to show that CCP could go a long way towards restoring confidence by showing that the Incarna engine can render multiple avatars in real time.
That's the real question, isn't it? I'm thinking it could not, not with current consumer GPUs. I mean, think about what is being rendered and how even players with high performance systems were complaining about problems rendering a small room and one avatar. Now, imagine one's system performance rendering expansive environments with hundreds of avatars. There were even rumors that some dev's were asking those same questions, at the time. I'm inclined to believe, barring tinfoil hat stuff, that the rendering engine was a technological dead end because someone screwed up, promised more than could be delivered and there was a lack of oversight eventually leading to a realization that the whole thing needed to be trashed and they needed to start over which they weren't willing to do.
Otherwise, there's no reason not to continue it even at levels of development that doesn't cause people to unsub. I think there's more to it but CCP will never give us the whole story. HTFU!...for the children! |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
76
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 12:35:00 -
[749] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote: If you want to believe it was purely because of player dissatisfaction then believe it. I do not. CCP spent, at least 18 months on it. That's a huge investment to completely write off. I don't know how much they spent but I'm sure it was over a million dollars to implement it and then quit it. So, if writing off that large of an investment due to player dissatisfaction is enough for you, wonderful.
If You honestly believe that declining subscriber numbers are not reason enough for CCP to shelf a project and concentrate on another to regain what they lost, then by all means do so. I choose to stay sane. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Roisin Connor
Born Imperialism Defiant Legacy
41
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 12:49:00 -
[750] - Quote
Please, please, please hurry this up!
Another year of development on this is not acceptable. If it can't make it in this Odyssey expansion then the winter one will do.
Why is this using the same engine as the other avatar stuff though? |
|
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1109
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 13:03:00 -
[751] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Mr Kidd wrote: If you want to believe it was purely because of player dissatisfaction then believe it. I do not. CCP spent, at least 18 months on it. That's a huge investment to completely write off. I don't know how much they spent but I'm sure it was over a million dollars to implement it and then quit it. So, if writing off that large of an investment due to player dissatisfaction is enough for you, wonderful.
If You honestly believe that declining subscriber numbers are not reason enough for CCP to shelf a project and concentrate on another to regain what they lost, then by all means do so. I chose to stay sane.
People were unsubing for a number of reasons. WiS was only part of the issues at the time.
WiS and NeX were being developed at the expense of the game itself...remember the 18mos doctrine that CCP used to develop the two almost exclusively? Yeah, that pissed a lot of people off.
WiS was forced on everyone....CCP addressed those issues. CCP implemented a checkbox, do not load station environment, and then re--introduced ship spinning. This allowed those who didn't want it to never have to participate thereby compartmentalizing WiS from the rest of the game. So, at that point what else was there that so many people were complaining about?
Well, there was the Fear memo discussing P2W. CCP did nothing to alleviate those fears except to abandon NeX, yet it's still in game and that ugly head can be reared at any time.
People were not unsubbing because of WiS alone, but instead CCP's abandonment of the game people were actually paying to play. CCP also addressed this issue by re-allocating development resources.
AFAIK, WoD is still being developed. And, AFAIK, WoD is still an avatar-centric game. WiS development and WoD development at that time was done hand in hand. If memory serves, WiS was directly dependent on WoD development. The only thing CCP abandoned was WiS. So, it does make me question whether WiS and NeX weren't just an alpha for WoD with CCP having no intentions of fully realizing WiS in Eve. The 18mos doctrine leads me to wonder if the entire thing wasn't being developed to meet some deadline,a demonstration of technology, to secure licensing, funding, whatever. Sure, you can say it's tinfoil hate stuff, maybe it is. IDK HTFU!...for the children! |
Ghazu
559
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 15:02:00 -
[752] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Mr Kidd wrote: No, there was definitely more to it than just being pissed for no reason.
Lets see, CQ was a forced feature that ran some people's computers into the ground and was completely divergent from space ship game play....read that as annoying as hell for quick docking/undocking especially if you're frame rate dropped from 50fps to 5fps.
The NeX was exclusionary. Regardless of people's opinions towards space barbie dolls the fact that most items were over $20 a piece placed the entire avatar experience in jeopardy since many people cannot afford or will not afford to blow +$100 playing dressup. Those price points were absurd. Compound that with indestructible items and it detracts from game play, not enhance it. The overall opinion for those in the two categories mentioned was that their game play was suffering at the expense of features that they couldn't or wouldn't justify. Hence it was exclusionary. A simple solution would have been to make the MT actually micro and the items destructible with auto-buy options. CCP would have been lining the pockets of their $1,000 jeans with cash from that model. And chances are, that even people who didn't care about space barbie would have eventually participated to some extent.
Instead of reallocating resources to 1) advance the mainstay game play and 2) fix WiS, CCP just shelved WiS development. As it stands now it's a blemish on the game and a in game live testament to CCP's failure to both its execution and its resolution. The avatars still don't render properly. That's what I call quitting.
As to why CCP has abandoned both WiS and the NeX, IDK. It's easy to say that it was because of what the players wanted. I find that extremely hard to believe given the investment that CCP made even at those same players' expense. The only obvious reason is that WiS, technologically was a complete failure and they reached some technical impasse or it was just an alpha test for WoD with CCP having no intentions to completing it. Now, what happened behind the scenes, I've no idea. Do they have some licensing that expired? Is NeX the sole domain of another company? Did they develop the alpha version and then solely license the tech to another company preventing further development in game? No clue. But, I do see a lot of potential there that would not require any significant development to implement. And yet, CCP lets that resource and potential income stream be completely orphaned. Nah, there's too much that doesn't add up to be solely for the players' benefit that CCP changed directions entirely. There are a number of ways it could have been handled to both satiate the playerbase and develop a proper secondary income stream from the game.
Bah, the Forum ate my post In the end it all sums up to one thing: Lots of stupid people started whining about Wis for no reason. No reason at all. And WiS was shelved because of that and no other reason. so being dogshite and useless does not count as a reason? http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1331
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 15:15:00 -
[753] - Quote
Ghazu wrote: so being dogshite and useless does not count as a reason?
Dogshite is an opinion, so no. All computer games are useless, so no. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ghazu
559
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 15:30:00 -
[754] - Quote
damn you getting desperate too http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1331
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 15:51:00 -
[755] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:damn you getting desperate too
Another thoughtless pointless post. Every post you make has no point to it. And when you obviously think your being clever somehow, it's clear for everyone to see that your just making a fool of yourself. Post with your main, you coward. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Bellanea Rajanir
Poseidaon
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 18:17:00 -
[756] - Quote
Quote:Lets see, CQ was a forced feature that ran some people's computers into the ground and was completely divergent from space ship game play....read that as annoying as hell for quick docking/undocking especially if you're frame rate dropped from 50fps to 5fps.
They removed the hangars, but they have shown them i all the demos, that was unforgivable, because people should have the liberty to choose. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3888
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 18:39:00 -
[757] - Quote
Bellanea Rajanir wrote:Quote:Lets see, CQ was a forced feature that ran some people's computers into the ground and was completely divergent from space ship game play....read that as annoying as hell for quick docking/undocking especially if you're frame rate dropped from 50fps to 5fps. They removed the hangars, but they have shown them i all the demos, that was unforgivable, because people should have the liberty to choose. Essentially yes.
There was a very big push to reinforce the Avatar based game play as an intergal and natural part of the EvE universe experience. Having the option to turn that off very likely seemed counter productive to that goal. I can actually see the reasoning behind the decision not to pursue that functionality for the initial release.
EXCEPT for the fact that people fully expected that option. It had been discussed at length and assurances had been made (at that point in the development cycle). The people making that decision did not take this into account, and made a seriously bad call. It would likely have been a different story if those assurances had not been made, but since they had it made CCP look very, very bad indeed.
Sometimes the overall flow of what you are trying to achieve NEEDS to be tempered by the expectations of your customer base.
All that being said, the demand for the ability to spin ships for it's own sake alone is probably the lowest point the average perceived IQ of the EVE community has ever sunk to. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
LoJ4X
The Shizzel
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.05 23:14:00 -
[758] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Clearly we need total darkness, a suit flashlight that stops working, an infrared camera and rogue drones that don't show up on an infrared camera
and magnetoboots, these are essential I'd rather see those *SPOILERS* zombie caretaker things the architects left behind that attacked the first Amarrians to explore inside a Sleeper facility *SPOILERS* than any rogue drone.
Because zombies have not been done ff'in boredom yet, right ? |
Ghazu
559
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 06:20:00 -
[759] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ghazu wrote:damn you getting desperate too Another thoughtless pointless post. Every post you make has no point to it. And when you obviously think your being clever somehow, it's clear for everyone to see that your just making a fool of yourself. Post with your main, you coward. ok barbie lover, defend anything so you get another dude to emote with lol. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1455
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 07:30:00 -
[760] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:(...)
Instead of reallocating resources to 1) advance the mainstay game play and 2) fix WiS, CCP just shelved WiS development. As it stands now it's a blemish on the game and a in game live testament to CCP's failure to both its execution and its resolution. The avatars still don't render properly. That's what I call quitting.
As to why CCP has abandoned both WiS and the NeX, IDK. It's easy to say that it was because of what the players wanted. I find that extremely hard to believe given the investment that CCP made even at those same players' expense. The only obvious reason is that WiS, technologically was a complete failure and they reached some technical impasse or it was just an alpha test for WoD with CCP having no intentions to completing it. Now, what happened behind the scenes, I've no idea. Do they have some licensing that expired? Is NeX the sole domain of another company? Did they develop the alpha version and then solely license the tech to another company preventing further development in game? No clue. But, I do see a lot of potential there that would not require any significant development to implement. And yet, CCP lets that resource and potential income stream be completely orphaned. Nah, there's too much that doesn't add up to be solely for the players' benefit that CCP changed directions entirely. There are a number of ways it could have been handled to both satiate the playerbase and develop a proper secondary income stream from the game.
My latest pet theory is that CCP fell behind the power curve with Incarna. They have X time and Y resources to develop XY+1 features and so development is lagging as features are priorityzed and delayed.
The point is that not even by delaying and priorityzing they can deliver features fast enough. Nullsec is collapsing and as far as we know, CCP don't even haves a plan to reimagine it -a plan that was needed two years ago as the defunction of nullsec mechanics should not be a surprise. Barring nullsec, what's left in the game that still works as endgame and keeps people interested? Hisec? Lowsec? WH?
Frankly, WiS (or the lack of) is the lesser of their troubles. That's too bad for us and it's a shame. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1333
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 11:07:00 -
[761] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Arduemont wrote:Ghazu wrote:damn you getting desperate too Another thoughtless pointless post. Every post you make has no point to it. And when you obviously think your being clever somehow, it's clear for everyone to see that your just making a fool of yourself. Post with your main, you coward. ok barbie lover, defend anything so you get another dude to emote with lol. just look at you trying to defend the merits of the cq.
I would have a hard time looking at myself defending the merits of CQ, because I never did. That's why I am here asking for actual game-play in a thread about exploring wrecks and abandoned space stations, you blithering idiot. Yet another post you didn't think about. A post you might as well not have made. Try harder, terrible troll. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ghazu
560
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 13:07:00 -
[762] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ghazu wrote: so being dogshite and useless does not count as a reason?
Dogshite is an opinion, so no. All computer games are useless, so no. sounds like barbie-crazed cq defense to me. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
|
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2097
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 16:44:00 -
[763] - Quote
I have removed some off topic posts. Please keep it on topic and civil. Thank you. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
RazorDreamz
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 21:25:00 -
[764] - Quote
I really hope this all comes into reality. Would love to see these features in the game. |
Cam Mikaels
Infinicraft Industries
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 01:42:00 -
[765] - Quote
More walking? I really hope it's as optional as Incarna is right now.
I'm here for spaceships. Not the meatbags inside. Have you heard? The Infinity: TQFE 2012 retrospective is out:-á http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=121&Itemid=26
I snark, therefore, I am. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
549
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 04:59:00 -
[766] - Quote
Cam Mikaels wrote:More walking? I really hope it's as optional as Incarna is right now.
I'm here for spaceships. Not the meatbags inside.
Most activities in EVE are optional. Part of its charm. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ghazu
561
|
Posted - 2013.04.07 18:57:00 -
[767] - Quote
yeah i hope by now they know the difference optional and optional but f-you for opting out. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Flamespar
Woof Club
550
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 23:42:00 -
[768] - Quote
Was there any mention of Avatar stuff on the livestream? Or was it just 30 minutes of Devs saying Soon(TM) I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
951
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 23:57:00 -
[769] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Was there any mention of Avatar stuff on the livestream? Or was it just 30 minutes of Devs saying Soon(TM)
You've summed it up, all held back for fanfest. Actually disappointed I watched the whole hour. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
550
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 03:10:00 -
[770] - Quote
Yeah it was pretty low on information.
Maybe we need for next weeks one which has Torfi on it, as he had a lot to do with the avatar exploration stuff I believe. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 11:16:00 -
[771] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:First of all I want to say that I love this idea, and if/when it comes out I'll probably play the hell out of it.
BUT, and this is the big but:
How does it fit into EVE as a game?
Without seeing the prototype, judging only by your post, I just can't see any connection between my exploration party derping around a space station looking for artifacts, and the grand political strategy of empires made up of thousands of players fighting each other for space dominance. It could just as well be a whole new game set in the EVE universe, only loosely if at all connected to the EVE game at all (not unlike Dust).
I don't see how the avatar gameplay could bring anything new to the player-player interaction EVE is based upon. In the form you describe it as, I don't expect it to become anything more than PI right now - just a gimmicky minigame to gather X resource. Only without the meta-game of fighting over planets. I don't see why I should prefer EVE-avatar-sim over activating a codebreaker module, and playing a proper full FPS/3PS game afterwards.
And just to show that I'm not simply whining for the sake of keeping the status quo, here is my idea I came up with in about 10 minutes:
Many people want there to be more significant content for smaller groups of people. So allow players to board/infiltrate an enemy Infrastructure hub, and hack the upgrades installed within. Or for larger squads even disable station services. The IHub's owners in the same system will be alerted can also enter and defend it. Otherwise it's defended by automated platforms (possibly allow these to be upgraded as an IHub upgrade too).
If the attacker succeeds, the hacked upgrade(s) will be disabled for a period of time, or until the attackers are driven out by the defenders. The longer the attacker can hold the hack, the longer the upgrades are disabled. This encourages both sides to reinforce the ongoing avatar battle with more spaceships bringing in troops, and to stop the enemy from doing the same. If the respawn mechanic of avatars somehow depends on who is holding the space grid over the IHub, the fight could quickly escalate to a battle both in space and in the corridors.
Once it works out and if people generally like it, it could also be implemented as an alternative way of reinforcing or taking over IHubs - instead of blowing it up and putting up your own, you could simply take it over with ground troops.
Seriously, everyone like this guys post. A group of crazy ass capsule pilots going ape **** in a station. Sounds like a blast. [IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img836/7059/c00286794da9496e2b391.jpg[/IMG]
Rule 34 ^ |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1056
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 15:41:00 -
[772] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:My latest pet theory is that CCP fell behind the power curve with Incarna. They have X time and Y resources to develop XY+1 features and so development is lagging as features are either priorityzed or delayed.
...
Frankly, WiS (or the lack of) is the lesser of their troubles. That's too bad for us and it's a shame, but CCP can't do zill about it.
I'm inclined to agree with that general assessment.
I mean, if you think about it, CCP is actually woefully slow to fix/add stuff, productivity is shoddy at best. Think about it for a second, in the last two years, what have they really ADDED? You could say they added FW (new system), new flagging, new crime watch, new bounty system, new ships and rebalance, etc. Seems like a lot. Except if you sit down and really think about it, how much actual new content was added? Pretty much none!
What I mean is, take FW. Yes, there were many changes to it. But what did those entail? Some rule changes, some number changes, buttons moved closer to beacons, etc? That's not a lot. Small indie companies do as much in a course of a single routine patch. Same for the new crime flagging, how much work was that really? Not that much. Ship rebalance? As in, tweaking some numbers in a database? Not particularly challenging and definitely doesn't require a lot of manpower. OK, the new ship models did need some work, but after 2 years since Incarna, it's really a pitifully small addition. Etc., etc.
Now, think back to older expansions, like Trinity, which completely overhauled EVERYTHING graphically. That was huge. Have we had anything of that scope since then? Not even close. The way I see it, EVE development seems to be stagnating alongside with the game itself. There's been nothing major that just shook up the game in a major way. Incarna-based gameplay had the potential, but with the speed that they've been implementing things in the last few years, and how long it too to fix those things until they became at least somewhat functioning (like the new inventory system), I really feel avatar-based gameplay is really a pipe dream at this point. They don't seem to have the ability to implement it, never mind other factors.
Personally, I pretty much gave up on the idea of ever seeing any meaningful avatar gameplay in EVE. They'll just keep adding these tweak-the-numbers-a-little "expansions" and keep going through the motions until something better comes along and finally sinks it. The last decade without any real competition seems to have really spoiled them. |
Ghazu
562
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 19:01:00 -
[773] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:My latest pet theory is that CCP fell behind the power curve with Incarna. They have X time and Y resources to develop XY+1 features and so development is lagging as features are either priorityzed or delayed.
...
Frankly, WiS (or the lack of) is the lesser of their troubles. That's too bad for us and it's a shame, but CCP can't do zill about it.
I'm inclined to agree with that general assessment. I mean, if you think about it, CCP is actually woefully slow to fix/add stuff, productivity is shoddy at best. Think about it for a second, in the last two years, what have they really ADDED? You could say they added FW (new system), new flagging, new crime watch, new bounty system, new ships and rebalance, etc. Seems like a lot. Except if you sit down and really think about it, how much actual new content was added? Pretty much none! What I mean is, take FW. Yes, there were many changes to it. But what did those entail? Some rule changes, some number changes, buttons moved closer to beacons, etc? That's not a lot. Small indie companies do as much in a course of a single routine patch. Same for the new crime flagging, how much work was that really? Not that much. Ship rebalance? As in, tweaking some numbers in a database? Not particularly challenging and definitely doesn't require a lot of manpower. OK, the new ship models did need some work, but after 2 years since Incarna, it's really a pitifully small addition. Etc., etc. Now, think back to older expansions, like Trinity, which completely overhauled EVERYTHING graphically. That was huge. Have we had anything of that scope since then? Not even close. The way I see it, EVE development seems to be stagnating alongside with the game itself. There's been nothing major that just shook up the game in a major way. Incarna-based gameplay had the potential, but with the speed that they've been implementing things in the last few years, and how long it too to fix those things until they became at least somewhat functioning (like the new inventory system), I really feel avatar-based gameplay is really a pipe dream at this point. They don't seem to have the ability to implement it, never mind other factors. Personally, I pretty much gave up on the idea of ever seeing any meaningful avatar gameplay in EVE. They'll just keep adding these tweak-the-numbers-a-little "expansions" and keep going through the motions until something better comes along and finally sinks it. The last decade without any real competition seems to have really spoiled them. wow again with the eve's dying without avatars. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1468
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 20:16:00 -
[774] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:My latest pet theory is that CCP fell behind the power curve with Incarna. They have X time and Y resources to develop XY+1 features and so development is lagging as features are either priorityzed or delayed.
...
Frankly, WiS (or the lack of) is the lesser of their troubles. That's too bad for us and it's a shame, but CCP can't do zill about it.
I'm inclined to agree with that general assessment. I mean, if you think about it, CCP is actually woefully slow to fix/add stuff, productivity is shoddy at best. Think about it for a second, in the last two years, what have they really ADDED? You could say they added FW (new system), new flagging, new crime watch, new bounty system, new ships and rebalance, etc. Seems like a lot. Except if you sit down and really think about it, how much actual new content was added? Pretty much none! What I mean is, take FW. Yes, there were many changes to it. But what did those entail? Some rule changes, some number changes, buttons moved closer to beacons, etc? That's not a lot. Small indie companies do as much in a course of a single routine patch. Same for the new crime flagging, how much work was that really? Not that much. Ship rebalance? As in, tweaking some numbers in a database? Not particularly challenging and definitely doesn't require a lot of manpower. OK, the new ship models did need some work, but after 2 years since Incarna, it's really a pitifully small addition. Etc., etc. Now, think back to older expansions, like Trinity, which completely overhauled EVERYTHING graphically. That was huge. Have we had anything of that scope since then? Not even close. The way I see it, EVE development seems to be stagnating alongside with the game itself. There's been nothing major that just shook up the game in a major way. Incarna-based gameplay had the potential, but with the speed that they've been implementing things in the last few years, and how long it too to fix those things until they became at least somewhat functioning (like the new inventory system), I really feel avatar-based gameplay is really a pipe dream at this point. They don't seem to have the ability to implement it, never mind other factors. Personally, I pretty much gave up on the idea of ever seeing any meaningful avatar gameplay in EVE. They'll just keep adding these tweak-the-numbers-a-little "expansions" and keep going through the motions until something better comes along and finally sinks it. The last decade without any real competition seems to have really spoiled them.
That's my pet theory #2: EVE FiS content has become so complex and interwined that adding new content is almost impossible and merely tweaking what already exists requires lots of checking and balancing. I don't buy that CCP employees are lazy or unprofessional. if they take 2 bloody years to just change a few stats on a few databases, ti's because the task is really that complex as those stats affect the whole game, and it's a beast of a game.
EVE no longer is a place where you can just throw in supercapitals "because they're cool" (nullsec still is dieing from that move). Today, CCP Backfire is the king of the hill as most changes are more likely to drive players away by removing something that kept them subbed, than to retain others because they like better what CCP delivers. Finding a suitable spot takes 2 years to just change some bloody stats.
WiS could had provided a way to add content to the game without interfering with the FiS mayhem, but alas, CCP ran into trouble before that and now they're just chasing a train that is already gone.
They're behind the power curve, and their only hope is that something dramatic happens to their power (unlikely), that their customers give them all the time they need (very unlikely), or that the growing mountain range of burned out players suddenly starts shrinking (unlikely too). Or, they may just change their course (anathema!).
Is EVE dieing? Not yet. But the game is progressing towards zero power, zero velocity and zero altitude. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1753
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 20:38:00 -
[775] - Quote
Im not quite sure what it means, but as far as I can tell the last time any dev mentioned anything Avatar related was in mid October 2012, 6 months ago. The streamed Q&A session had nothing, even though I know several posters asked about it. I do not remember seeing any dev post about it in the last 6 months.
So why the lack of communication?
Maybe CCP has totally given up. But if so, why not just say so? Maybe something is being planned, and they want to spring it on us? Say, at Fanfest?
It is likely the controversial nature of avatar game play is so great its a dis-intensive to CCP to talk about it. But I hope CCP is still thinking along these lines:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. ....snip....
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1468
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 22:27:00 -
[776] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Im not quite sure what it means, but as far as I can tell the last time any dev mentioned anything Avatar related was in mid October 2012, 6 months ago. The streamed Q&A session had nothing, even though I know several posters asked about it. I do not remember seeing any dev post about it in the last 6 months. So why the lack of communication? Maybe CCP has totally given up. But if so, why not just say so? Maybe something is being planned, and they want to spring it on us? Say, at Fanfest? It is likely the controversial nature of avatar game play is so great its a dis-intensive to CCP to talk about it. But I hope CCP is still thinking along these lines: CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. ....snip....
Second post:
CCP Unifex wrote:So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
They think that the exploration FPS is what playes wanted (no, it's not) and they can't develop it now. Unifex also hinted that maybe avatars could be a separate game set in the EVE universe +á-la-DUST 514 (CSM december minutes).
All in all, there's no avatars in the works and the most "new" and "exciting" thing is "whatever they can patch together by june", aka Odyssey, the first of the new "themed multi-threaded" expansions.
Mix in something about the Jove and mittens trying to steal the show with a resignation or something equally dramatic, and that will be Fanfest 2013 for posterity. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1505
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 22:33:00 -
[777] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Im not quite sure what it means, but as far as I can tell the last time any dev mentioned anything Avatar related was in mid October 2012, 6 months ago. The streamed Q&A session had nothing, even though I know several posters asked about it. I do not remember seeing any dev post about it in the last 6 months. So why the lack of communication? Maybe CCP has totally given up. But if so, why not just say so? Maybe something is being planned, and they want to spring it on us? Say, at Fanfest? It is likely the controversial nature of avatar game play is so great its a dis-intensive to CCP to talk about it. But I hope CCP is still thinking along these lines: CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. ....snip.... Second post: CCP Unifex wrote:So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond. They think that the exploration FPS is what playes wanted (no, it's not) and they can't develop it now. Unifex also hinted that maybe avatars could be a separate game set in the EVE universe +á-la-DUST 514 (CSM december minutes). All in all, there's no avatars in the works and the most "new" and "exciting" thing is "whatever they can patch together by june", aka Odyssey, the first of the new "themed multi-threaded" expansions. Mix in something about the Jove and mittens trying to steal the show with a resignation or something equally dramatic, and that will be Fanfest 2013 for posterity.
So, does this mean your going to quit for real this time?
Also:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
They think that the exploration FPS is what playes wanted (no, it's not) and they can't develop it now.
[citation needed]
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1116
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 22:51:00 -
[778] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:My latest pet theory is that CCP fell behind the power curve with Incarna. They have X time and Y resources to develop XY+1 features and so development is lagging as features are either priorityzed or delayed.
...
Frankly, WiS (or the lack of) is the lesser of their troubles. That's too bad for us and it's a shame, but CCP can't do zill about it.
I'm inclined to agree with that general assessment. I mean, if you think about it, CCP is actually woefully slow to fix/add stuff, productivity is shoddy at best. Think about it for a second, in the last two years, what have they really ADDED? You could say they added FW (new system), new flagging, new crime watch, new bounty system, new ships and rebalance, etc. Seems like a lot. Except if you sit down and really think about it, how much actual new content was added? Pretty much none! What I mean is, take FW. Yes, there were many changes to it. But what did those entail? Some rule changes, some number changes, buttons moved closer to beacons, etc? That's not a lot. Small indie companies do as much in a course of a single routine patch. Same for the new crime flagging, how much work was that really? Not that much. Ship rebalance? As in, tweaking some numbers in a database? Not particularly challenging and definitely doesn't require a lot of manpower. OK, the new ship models did need some work, but after 2 years since Incarna, it's really a pitifully small addition. Etc., etc. Now, think back to older expansions, like Trinity, which completely overhauled EVERYTHING graphically. That was huge. Have we had anything of that scope since then? Not even close. The way I see it, EVE development seems to be stagnating alongside with the game itself. There's been nothing major that just shook up the game in a major way. Incarna-based gameplay had the potential, but with the speed that they've been implementing things in the last few years, and how long it too to fix those things until they became at least somewhat functioning (like the new inventory system), I really feel avatar-based gameplay is really a pipe dream at this point. They don't seem to have the ability to implement it, never mind other factors. Personally, I pretty much gave up on the idea of ever seeing any meaningful avatar gameplay in EVE. They'll just keep adding these tweak-the-numbers-a-little "expansions" and keep going through the motions until something better comes along and finally sinks it. The last decade without any real competition seems to have really spoiled them. wow again with the eve's dying without avatars.
No, he's not saying that at all. But he is pointing out that, Incarna aside, no new content has been added to the game in years. Take ship rebalancing....what's new? Nothing. What's changed? A lot. I'm of the opinion that they're basically taking poor game play that players have made to work, are changing it (for better or worse?) and palming that off as "content". It's not. The only reason Incarna is used as an example is it was new content but CCP royally fubared it.
With the ship rebalancing thats being presented as an "expansion" (think about that word), they're basically proliferating cap usage which I think everyone agrees is bad for small scale game play. HTFU!...for the children! |
Ivoto
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 23:38:00 -
[779] - Quote
Am I the only one who:
A) Is kinda underwhelmed by this?
and
B) Thinks this sounds a lot like Eve Tomb Raider?
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
570
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 23:45:00 -
[780] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Ghazu wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:My latest pet theory is that CCP fell behind the power curve with Incarna. They have X time and Y resources to develop XY+1 features and so development is lagging as features are either priorityzed or delayed.
...
Frankly, WiS (or the lack of) is the lesser of their troubles. That's too bad for us and it's a shame, but CCP can't do zill about it.
I'm inclined to agree with that general assessment. I mean, if you think about it, CCP is actually woefully slow to fix/add stuff, productivity is shoddy at best. Think about it for a second, in the last two years, what have they really ADDED? You could say they added FW (new system), new flagging, new crime watch, new bounty system, new ships and rebalance, etc. Seems like a lot. Except if you sit down and really think about it, how much actual new content was added? Pretty much none! What I mean is, take FW. Yes, there were many changes to it. But what did those entail? Some rule changes, some number changes, buttons moved closer to beacons, etc? That's not a lot. Small indie companies do as much in a course of a single routine patch. Same for the new crime flagging, how much work was that really? Not that much. Ship rebalance? As in, tweaking some numbers in a database? Not particularly challenging and definitely doesn't require a lot of manpower. OK, the new ship models did need some work, but after 2 years since Incarna, it's really a pitifully small addition. Etc., etc. Now, think back to older expansions, like Trinity, which completely overhauled EVERYTHING graphically. That was huge. Have we had anything of that scope since then? Not even close. The way I see it, EVE development seems to be stagnating alongside with the game itself. There's been nothing major that just shook up the game in a major way. Incarna-based gameplay had the potential, but with the speed that they've been implementing things in the last few years, and how long it too to fix those things until they became at least somewhat functioning (like the new inventory system), I really feel avatar-based gameplay is really a pipe dream at this point. They don't seem to have the ability to implement it, never mind other factors. Personally, I pretty much gave up on the idea of ever seeing any meaningful avatar gameplay in EVE. They'll just keep adding these tweak-the-numbers-a-little "expansions" and keep going through the motions until something better comes along and finally sinks it. The last decade without any real competition seems to have really spoiled them. wow again with the eve's dying without avatars. No, he's not saying that at all. But he is pointing out that, Incarna aside, no new content has been added to the game in years. Take ship rebalancing....what's new? Nothing. What's changed? A lot. I'm of the opinion that they're basically taking poor game play that players have made to work, are changing it (for better or worse?) and palming that off as "content" expecting us to have "fun" doing the same thing. It's not. The only reason Incarna is used as an example is it was new content but CCP royally fubared it. With the ship rebalancing thats being presented as an "expansion" (think about that word), they're basically proliferating cap usage which I think everyone agrees is bad for small scale game play. As for content itself, what is there that's new.....nothing. If you look at the overall picture very little is being done to the game. Oh sure, they're making lots of small changes that effect a large scope of the game but on the whole, these changes can probably be done in a couple of days work for a few developers changing numbers in a database. But even some of the ship changes don't even make sense so, how much effort are they really putting into Eve?
Sandbox games don't need new "content", players are the "content" in this genre. What sandbox games need is constant iteration, like the exelent last three expansions. |
|
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1116
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 02:10:00 -
[781] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: Sandbox games don't need new "content", players are the "content" in this genre. What sandbox games need is constant iteration, like the exelent last three expansions.
Yes they do.
When's the last time you played in a real sandbox? Yeah, when you were a little kid. There's a reason it stops being stimulating at a certain age and you don't see teenagers jumping in with the toddlers. Content in eve is the equivalent of being given a set of tools. The more tools. The more content we make for ourselves.
Now, whatever it was CCP was going for with avatars, I've no idea. I doubt they know. HTFU!...for the children! |
Flamespar
Woof Club
550
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 02:12:00 -
[782] - Quote
The last three expansions weren't excellent at all. They were just updates and fixes. Necessary but boring. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Verlaine Glariant
Amphysvena
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 02:27:00 -
[783] - Quote
I agree that they were excellent expansions but this game needs actual new content. However CCP can't do miracles with its current resources. Remember they fired a lot of employees after Incarna.
-+ FW: Needs to let players join pirate factions -+ Ships: Pirate Factions need one ship on each class (Frigate > Cruiser > Battlecruiser > Battleship) and some of the already present need to be revisited. Pirate Battlecruisers are especially needed. -+ Logout to Character selection sreen - This has been asked for YEARS and still not present in the game -+ Again Pirate Factions: need new content for the other factions, not only Sansha's Nation, but Guristas, Serpentis, Blood Raiders and Angel Cartel too -+ Jove faction: more lore and content about this race -+ POS Overhaul - Modular POS needs to be implemented ASAP -+ Pirate faction ships: Vindicator, Bhaalgorn, Rattlesnake, Gila and Worm need exclusive hulls, not shared ones. -+ Revenant: it's nearly impossible to get one, let alone buy it (last one was bought for nearly 300 billion) -+ Incarna: it is a very short demo of what it should be right now. You can... sit on a coach -+ Sov system is bad, please fix it -+... and many more. These ones are just to name a few.
And one can dream... -+ Ship interiors -+ Cockpit view -+ Atmospheric flight -+ Ship crews -+ Complex ships that need to be piloted by two or more players at a time www.amphysvena.org |
CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 02:35:00 -
[784] - Quote
This is really awesome...!!!
Please CCP work on this ... make it an awesome feature like most of us want...!!!
Keep giving me reasons to play for ten more years ... XD
I'll keep dreaming with walking in my ships and watching the awesome bridges we imagine they have. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1469
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:58:00 -
[785] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:(...) Sandbox games don't need new "content", players are the "content" in this genre. What sandbox games need is constant iteration, like the exelent last three expansions.
So, according to you, POSes could be removed tomorrow as we don't need "content", players will make it themselves, right? The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Ghazu
570
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 17:44:00 -
[786] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225455&find=unread its just a bunch of rebalancing but it will shake things up, and christ i mean its not like we literally have people crying for ~new pants to dress up in. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1338
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 13:37:00 -
[787] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225455&find=unread its just a bunch of rebalancing but it will shake things up, and christ i mean its not like we literally have people crying for ~new pants to dress up in.
Of course no one is pissed with the lack of "extra pants". You'd need some content and a reason to want them first, and currently there is no meaningful WiS content (Which is what most of us want). Love the fact that you saw that there was no WiS content in there and immediately thought that your time would be best spent coming back here to disappointing people. Your such a wonderful human being. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services Russian International Allegiance
111
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 06:09:00 -
[788] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:... and christ i mean its not like we literally have people crying for ~new pants to dress up in.
You haven't heard me. It's because of the lack of air in space (and behind the door in my CQ).
Also: I'm totally in favour of ships before clothing. I always wanted that Hello Kitty skin for my Kestrel.
On a serious note: CCP won't get around to work on WiS at this time and that's ok. As long as they don't completely forget about us, I'm fine.
Join the in-game channel IG OOPE now.
EVE Racing (resuscitation efforts ongoing) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=215860&find=unread |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
306
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 06:33:00 -
[789] - Quote
CMD Ishikawa wrote:This is really awesome...!!!
Please CCP work on this ... make it an awesome feature like most of us want...!!!
Keep giving me reasons to play for ten more years ... XD
I'll keep dreaming with walking in my ships and watching the awesome bridges we imagine they have.
Do you really want more dev time to go into Incarna? The player base dropped off so badly last time that CCP go into financial trouble.
I'd say, make corp meeting rooms, a station bar (with a minigame like Poker), possibly integrate eve voice into character avatars, and leave it at that. When you think about it, those relatively small extensions of Incarna would greatly add to the immersion of the game. |
Heinel Coventina
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 07:13:00 -
[790] - Quote
The vision sounds intriguing, but given that the current Captain quarters are as unresponsive and clunky as they are, I have no confidence that avatar based gameplay can be enjoyable.
I think a statement of this sort would be much more well received, if our characters can at least move within the CQ smoothly, like in other games, first. |
|
Ghazu
570
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 07:25:00 -
[791] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ghazu wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225455&find=unread its just a bunch of rebalancing but it will shake things up, and christ i mean its not like we literally have people crying for ~new pants to dress up in. Of course no one is pissed with the lack of "extra pants". You'd need some content and a reason to want them first, and currently there is no meaningful WiS content (Which is what most of us want). Love the fact that you saw that there was no WiS content in there and immediately thought that your time would be best spent coming back here to disappointing people. Your such a wonderful human being. sad part is that us advocates of meaningful wis cotent are massively outnumbered by the blobs of freaks. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
427
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 19:43:00 -
[792] - Quote
mechtech wrote:[..]make corp meeting rooms, a station bar (with a minigame like Poker), possibly integrate eve voice into character avatars, and leave it at that. When you think about it, those relatively small extensions of Incarna would greatly add to the immersion of the game. This would keep me happy for at least 5 years. Hell, just the bar would do it for me.
Nightmares - A short story by Ch+¬ Biko |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1759
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 20:20:00 -
[793] - Quote
In the last video Q&A they actually responded to the question of future avatar based features. The answer was chuckle, followed by "maybe something will be said at fanfest".
By now I'm fairly sure every fanfest presentation has been fleshed out, so there is no "maybe" about it. There will be something said, however large or small. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1615
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 20:23:00 -
[794] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:In the last video Q&A they actually responded to the question of future avatar based features. The answer was chuckle, followed by "maybe something will be said at fanfest".
By now I'm fairly sure every fanfest presentation has been fleshed out, so there is no "maybe" about it. There will be something said, however large or small.
That something will be:
"We currently have no timetable we can share for when we will address avatar-based gameplay".
Otherwise known as: SoonGäó
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1512
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 20:46:00 -
[795] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:In the last video Q&A they actually responded to the question of future avatar based features. The answer was chuckle, followed by "maybe something will be said at fanfest".
By now I'm fairly sure every fanfest presentation has been fleshed out, so there is no "maybe" about it. There will be something said, however large or small.
Jove expats (without access to their technology) as a playable starter race. The lore reason will be that Jove are desperate and think that letting their own mix with other races may trigger new experiences and lead to useful discovery.
PS: can you point the time stamp for that WiS comment? I want to see that chuckle with my own eyes and give a try to reading what it means. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1759
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 22:25:00 -
[796] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:In the last video Q&A they actually responded to the question of future avatar based features. The answer was chuckle, followed by "maybe something will be said at fanfest".
By now I'm fairly sure every fanfest presentation has been fleshed out, so there is no "maybe" about it. There will be something said, however large or small. Jove expats (without access to their technology) as a playable starter race. The lore reason will be that Jove are desperate and think that letting their own mix with other races may trigger new experiences and lead to useful discovery. PS: can you point the time stamp for that WiS comment? I want to see that chuckle with my own eyes and give a try to reading what it means, if it means anything at all. Not really, I just watched it live. It is the first question in the Q&A segment. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Wheelsleep Snores
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 03:52:00 -
[797] - Quote
If there weren't mega busy stations like Jita that would present lag issues, allowing Avatar movement and socialization on stations would be nice. Maybe even start with POS's. Introduce a new POS that allows a limited number of avatars (10-20) to meet and mingle to discuss Corp agendas.
To start with, I'd like maybe just the cockpit of ships to be made available to move around in with our avatars with maybe a cot in the corner where I can catch some Z's on long space hauls. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1339
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 05:01:00 -
[798] - Quote
Wheelsleep Snores wrote:If there weren't mega busy stations like Jita that would present lag issues, allowing Avatar movement and socialization on stations would be nice. Maybe even start with POS's. Introduce a new POS that allows a limited number of avatars (10-20) to meet and mingle to discuss Corp agendas.
To start with, I'd like maybe just the cockpit of ships to be made available to move around in with our avatars with maybe a cot in the corner where I can catch some Z's on long space hauls.
It would actually be fairly easy to instance inside station content. Establishments could be divided into sections, like corp offices, that can be selected when you dock. Each of those would have a max player count and each station would have a max number of establishments.
They have even released a UI improvements trailer at some point (probably about a year ago now) that has images of a UI hinting at the above. I'm afraid I can't find the video at the moment. I'll edit this post later to include a link.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ghazu
570
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 12:33:00 -
[799] - Quote
instanced safe emoting environments? http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1762
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 15:29:00 -
[800] - Quote
The fanfest program is out. One of the hour long session is called "Prototyping the Future":
"Team Avatar and Team Prototyping Rocks have been developing new gameplay ideas for EVE over the past year and a bit. Come along and find out what prototyping is all about and see some of the ideas they came up with for features as diverse as Mining and Exploration. They will also be discussing the new features they are implementing for the summer expansion which were generated as a result of these efforts."
My guess is we will see the prototype wreck diving stuff at least. No idea about mining prototypes or what they are implementing in the summer expansion. But it appears there will be more implemented than nothing. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1516
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 19:43:00 -
[801] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The fanfest program is out. One of the hour long session is called "Prototyping the Future":
"Team Avatar and Team Prototyping Rocks have been developing new gameplay ideas for EVE over the past year and a bit. Come along and find out what prototyping is all about and see some of the ideas they came up with for features as diverse as Mining and Exploration. They will also be discussing the new features they are implementing for the summer expansion which were generated as a result of these efforts."
My guess is we will see the prototype wreck diving stuff at least. No idea about mining prototypes or what they are implementing in the summer expansion. But it appears there will be more implemented than nothing.
Those barely can be called news. We already know what they've prototyped and at least I already have voiced how it serves me nothing as it's miles away from my style of gameplay.
The last bloody thing I want is 20-guys, combat-only, five-hours-long avatar bovine fecal matter. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4019
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 20:27:00 -
[802] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Wheelsleep Snores wrote:If there weren't mega busy stations like Jita that would present lag issues, allowing Avatar movement and socialization on stations would be nice. Maybe even start with POS's. Introduce a new POS that allows a limited number of avatars (10-20) to meet and mingle to discuss Corp agendas.
To start with, I'd like maybe just the cockpit of ships to be made available to move around in with our avatars with maybe a cot in the corner where I can catch some Z's on long space hauls. It would actually be fairly easy to instance inside station content. Establishments could be divided into sections, like corp offices, that can be selected when you dock. Each of those would have a max player count and each station would have a max number of establishments. They have even released a UI improvements trailer at some point (probably about a year ago now) that has images of a UI hinting at the above. I'm afraid I can't find the video at the moment. I'll edit this post later to include a link. Exactly. Last year I mentioned that establishments could be created with a max occupancy limit as part of their basic stats. My only concern was that it was basically a form of instancing (from a certain point of view ) and would probably have to be modified somehow to fit with EvE's overall flavor.
Personally speaking, I could live with Avatar game play being instanced to a degree, although that demands a certain seperation from flying in space game play style that I'm not entirely comfortable with. Still, even the exploration prototyping that was done led me to believe that even exploring a ship wreck might need to have limits as to how many players can participate at any given time... so maybe that is the path that Avatar game play will need to follow to be viable in EvE. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1764
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 20:34:00 -
[803] - Quote
The stuff we do when docked is already on a different server than the in-space stuff in the same solar system. The market has its own server, CQ stuff is on a separate server, and so on. CCP long ago moved as much as possible off servers dealing with FiS, just to help reduce FiS lag. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
217
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 20:38:00 -
[804] - Quote
For the WiS stuff, 'max occupancy' means that the join can have a line to get in. ;) Priority list for VIPs? Who doesn't want to be te pilot who strolls past all the rubes waiting to get into the high rollers club? |
Deborah Bat-Zeev
Observant Eye Inc
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 22:02:00 -
[805] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:The fanfest program is out. One of the hour long session is called "Prototyping the Future":
"Team Avatar and Team Prototyping Rocks have been developing new gameplay ideas for EVE over the past year and a bit. Come along and find out what prototyping is all about and see some of the ideas they came up with for features as diverse as Mining and Exploration. They will also be discussing the new features they are implementing for the summer expansion which were generated as a result of these efforts."
My guess is we will see the prototype wreck diving stuff at least. No idea about mining prototypes or what they are implementing in the summer expansion. But it appears there will be more implemented than nothing. Those barely can be called news. We already know what they've prototyped and at least I already have voiced how it serves me nothing as it's miles away from my style of gameplay. The last bloody thing I want is 20-guys, combat-only, five-hours-long avatar bovine fecal matter.
Well, once they actually manage to get multi-avatar gameplay working it shouldn't be too difficult to add more WiS features bit by bit over the next years. At least, it would prove that they're not just too god-damn incompetent to deal with avatars and that more is possible. Question, though, is whether the next expansion actually features the exploration FPS (or third person shooter) thing or if the part about stuff being implemented in the summer expansion is raising false hopes. Adding the exploration shooter with an exploration themed expansion would make more sense than if they added it in a year with, say, a POS themed expansion, anyway.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1519
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 22:28:00 -
[806] - Quote
Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:The fanfest program is out. One of the hour long session is called "Prototyping the Future":
"Team Avatar and Team Prototyping Rocks have been developing new gameplay ideas for EVE over the past year and a bit. Come along and find out what prototyping is all about and see some of the ideas they came up with for features as diverse as Mining and Exploration. They will also be discussing the new features they are implementing for the summer expansion which were generated as a result of these efforts."
My guess is we will see the prototype wreck diving stuff at least. No idea about mining prototypes or what they are implementing in the summer expansion. But it appears there will be more implemented than nothing. Those barely can be called news. We already know what they've prototyped and at least I already have voiced how it serves me nothing as it's miles away from my style of gameplay. The last bloody thing I want is 20-guys, combat-only, five-hours-long avatar bovine fecal matter. Well, once they actually manage to get multi-avatar gameplay working it shouldn't be too difficult to add more WiS features bit by bit over the next years. At least, it would prove that they're not just too god-damn incompetent to deal with avatars and that more is possible. Question, though, is whether the next expansion actually features the exploration FPS (or third person shooter) thing or if the part about stuff being implemented in the summer expansion is raising false hopes. Adding the exploration shooter with an exploration themed expansion would make more sense than if they added it in a year with, say, a POS themed expansion, anyway.
Odysey will be about FiS exploration, sure. And it's not as much an expansion as another collection of "already in development or desired features which several unconnected and unrelated scrum teams figure that they can release by the given deadline and provide a feeling that it was on purpose and not an accidental gathering".
With a new EP learning his ropes for the winter expansion, we'll be lucky if summer 2014 is the first coordinated, top-to-down expansion effort since incarna... and it still will be too soon to devote to WiS. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1765
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 22:43:00 -
[807] - Quote
Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:The fanfest program is out. One of the hour long session is called "Prototyping the Future":
"Team Avatar and Team Prototyping Rocks have been developing new gameplay ideas for EVE over the past year and a bit. Come along and find out what prototyping is all about and see some of the ideas they came up with for features as diverse as Mining and Exploration. They will also be discussing the new features they are implementing for the summer expansion which were generated as a result of these efforts."
My guess is we will see the prototype wreck diving stuff at least. No idea about mining prototypes or what they are implementing in the summer expansion. But it appears there will be more implemented than nothing. Well, once they actually manage to get multi-avatar gameplay working it shouldn't be too difficult to add more WiS features bit by bit over the next years. At least, it would prove that they're not just too god-damn incompetent to deal with avatars and that more is possible. Question, though, is whether the next expansion actually features the exploration FPS (or third person shooter) thing or if the part about stuff being implemented in the summer expansion is raising false hopes. Adding the exploration shooter with an exploration themed expansion would make more sense than if they added it in a year with, say, a POS themed expansion, anyway. I think we will not get wreck diving, I'd be surprised if we did. The prototype will be shown at fanfest, then they will announce some smaller feature to be released with Odyssey. I think we will get something that takes less development and may set a code base for wreck diving. But we may get nothing more than a new pair of pants.
CCP has said the mulit-avatar issue is workable by reducing detail as more people are added, especially for those that are far away. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
CMD Ishikawa
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 00:10:00 -
[808] - Quote
Awesome because that way I will enjoy my spaceships gamestyle and a new gamestyle whenever I want it.
I'm really looking forward to this, and many of us wants it too ... =D |
Sharon Anne
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 03:02:00 -
[809] - Quote
Now that the fanboys have wet themselves, I still like to see how Dust is going to shake up Null. When can I land on a planet? Oh right the map pins nevermine |
Rammix
FreeWorkers
47
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 11:09:00 -
[810] - Quote
I really hope that after Odissey (or maybe even a bit earlier) they will start giving SERIOUS attention to avatar / WIS etc stuff.
And I really sincerely don't understand people whining about keeping EVE only spaceship oriented. I even hate those people sometimes. EVE is not and must not be only about spaceships. It's a whole sci-fi universe, sci-fi about space is not only spaceships, it's also planet colonization, and many-many other things. I'd love to see EVE as a multi-genre complex game including, but not limited: current spaceships arena-like space fight simulator based on piloting (1vs1 or team-VS-team) first person shooter at ruined stations in space (maybe even breaking into other player's ship - in very close distance - to take control over it with a rifle in your hands) 'black-jack and whores' style game at stations quest-like agent missions in addition to current missions some tycoon elements (current PI is a good start). If you - some players - need only current 'spaceship' eve, that's ok, but please don't try to f**k up other possible directions of eve's development just because of your own eghoistic motives. You're not the only ones playing this wonderful game. OpenSUSE 12.2, wine 1.5 |
|
|
CCP Bayesian
600
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 15:39:00 -
[811] - Quote
As per the OP the stuff we've been working on is all for FiS. More at the talk in question which is going to be streamed out to the rest of the world at 1900 on Saturday according to the schedule.
If anyone wants to talk WiS then come find me at Fanfest. :D EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 05:42:00 -
[812] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:As per the OP the stuff we've been working on is all for FiS. More at the talk in question which is going to be streamed out to the rest of the world at 1900 on Saturday according to the schedule.
If anyone wants to talk WiS then come find me at Fanfest. :D
What happened to tattoos? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Nathanien Indoril
Creation and Extraction
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 09:51:00 -
[813] - Quote
*sigh*
Boys... why is this thread still going? Give it up... You want something with WiS? Wait for Star Citizen. Really.
There is no effort put in WiS and that's not going to change.
Eve is in maintenance mode and new gameplay is only in the works for Dust (and thats a boring shooter-wannabe; and uprising won't change that). |
|
CCP Bayesian
601
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 10:18:00 -
[814] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:As per the OP the stuff we've been working on is all for FiS. More at the talk in question which is going to be streamed out to the rest of the world at 1900 on Saturday according to the schedule.
If anyone wants to talk WiS then come find me at Fanfest. :D What happened to tattoos?
This fell by the wayside when Team Avatar was disbanded and refocused. I've talked to CCP karkur about what is left that needs to be implemented and prompted CCP Seagull that this is something that we should do. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
492
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 11:06:00 -
[815] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Flamespar wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:As per the OP the stuff we've been working on is all for FiS. More at the talk in question which is going to be streamed out to the rest of the world at 1900 on Saturday according to the schedule.
If anyone wants to talk WiS then come find me at Fanfest. :D What happened to tattoos? This fell by the wayside when Team Avatar was disbanded and refocused. I've talked to CCP karkur about what is left that needs to be implemented and prompted CCP Seagull that this is something that we should do. Is the amount of work likely to be completed by Odyssey? |
|
CCP Bayesian
601
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 11:16:00 -
[816] - Quote
Nope. Everything is well underway for Odyssey and I don't think any teams have slack in their schedules to fit extra stuff in. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
492
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 11:20:00 -
[817] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Nope. Everything is well underway for Odyssey and I don't think any teams have slack in their schedules to fit extra stuff in. Thanks for the info someone had to ask |
Rammix
FreeWorkers
51
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 11:22:00 -
[818] - Quote
Nathanien Indoril wrote: Boys... why is this thread still going? Give it up... You want something with WiS? Wait for Star Citizen. Really.
I don't need 2 games. If one of them has huge universe, wars, politics etc and the other has walking in stations and piloting - it's not that cool (that guy did a nasty trick developing the exact things absent in eve). I don't want to jump between 2 similar mmo's, and I definitely will not choose that game instead of EVE. I need one solid gaming universe that contains all the aspects of space sci-fi, without "shards" or player-made mods/mini-servers. I hope in 2-3 years eve will come much closer to being a complete space sci-fi simulator (face-to-face 'relationships' in stations, piloting, etc etc etc, maybe even landing on planets from orbit in a shuttle of whatever).
p.s. you're a heretic, heretics must be burnt and bad words must be inscribed on their ships' hulls with righteous lasers. OpenSUSE 12.2, wine 1.5 |
Nathanien Indoril
Creation and Extraction
25
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 12:54:00 -
[819] - Quote
Rammix wrote:I don't need 2 games. If one of them has huge universe, wars, politics etc and the other has walking in stations and piloting - it's not that cool (that guy did a nasty trick developing the exact things absent in eve). I don't want to jump between 2 similar mmo's, and I definitely will not choose that game instead of EVE. I need one solid gaming universe that contains all the aspects of space sci-fi, without "shards" or player-made mods/mini-servers. I hope in 2-3 years eve will come much closer to being a complete space sci-fi simulator (face-to-face 'relationships' in stations, piloting, etc etc etc, maybe even landing on planets from orbit in a shuttle of whatever).
p.s. you're a heretic, heretics must be burnt and bad words must be inscribed on their ships' hulls with righteous lasers.
I also want WiS to happen (i'm absolutely pro WiS) AND i want it in EvE and not SC... but... i'm also realistic. Nearly two years since incarna... and no progress in WiS. One year after the "we don't have the ressources to do anything WiS related" Post... and yeah... thats it. During the ATX Zastrow said something like "10 year eve, after everything is fixed - then wis would be cool", and the CCP response on the stream was like "ohm... yeah... look somewhere else, till he goes away or changes topic".
Just posting "We want it" - seems not to be enough, we already have two threadnaughts about this topic. It seems like WiS is the unwanted child in the eve client... 'cause they treat it that way.
Maybe with finally some competition in this genre... something will change. Maybe fanfest brings exciting news about WiS (but i doubt it) |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1525
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 14:02:00 -
[820] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Flamespar wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:As per the OP the stuff we've been working on is all for FiS. More at the talk in question which is going to be streamed out to the rest of the world at 1900 on Saturday according to the schedule.
If anyone wants to talk WiS then come find me at Fanfest. :D What happened to tattoos? This fell by the wayside when Team Avatar was disbanded and refocused. I've talked to CCP karkur about what is left that needs to be implemented and prompted CCP Seagull that this is something that we should do.
So...
- Missing NEx items: On Singularity since april 2011, some where released through FW to resounding failure. Currenlty abandoned. - Sleeve tattoos: Announced on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned. - racial blending: Teased on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned. - Captain's Quarters: interface not updated since 2011. Currently abandoned. - Dungeon raiding/exploration WiS: prototyped during 2012, shown to some players. Piece of mouth for Fanfest 2013.
It's a pity we can't travel to Iceland and talk to you... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1769
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 14:18:00 -
[821] - Quote
Nathanien Indoril wrote:Rammix wrote:I don't need 2 games. If one of them has huge universe, wars, politics etc and the other has walking in stations and piloting - it's not that cool (that guy did a nasty trick developing the exact things absent in eve). I don't want to jump between 2 similar mmo's, and I definitely will not choose that game instead of EVE. I need one solid gaming universe that contains all the aspects of space sci-fi, without "shards" or player-made mods/mini-servers. I hope in 2-3 years eve will come much closer to being a complete space sci-fi simulator (face-to-face 'relationships' in stations, piloting, etc etc etc, maybe even landing on planets from orbit in a shuttle of whatever).
p.s. you're a heretic, heretics must be burnt and bad words must be inscribed on their ships' hulls with righteous lasers. I also want WiS to happen (i'm absolutely pro WiS) AND i want it in EvE and not SC... but... i'm also realistic. Nearly two years since incarna... and no progress in WiS. One year after the "we don't have the ressources to do anything WiS related" Post... and yeah... thats it. During the ATX Zastrow said something like "10 year eve, after everything is fixed - then wis would be cool", and the CCP response on the stream was like "ohm... yeah... look somewhere else, till he goes away or changes topic". Just posting "We want it" - seems not to be enough, we already have two threadnaughts about this topic. It seems like WiS is the unwanted child in the eve client... 'cause they treat it that way. Maybe with finally some competition in this genre... something will change. Maybe fanfest brings exciting news about WiS (but i doubt it) So much this. I too want WiS, with one reason few have mentioned: It might get my wife back to playing Eve. I also do not want to maintain two major games. Eve is big, and rewards giving it attention.
My guess is if CCP allocated development effort in proportion to player interest, WiS would get 10% to 20% of the development effort. I still think that would be a good way to do it: Allow each player decide what their subscription helps develop. That way everyone who does not want WiS can be sure none of their money went to it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
495
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 14:19:00 -
[822] - Quote
No need for people to spunk themselves.... believe it *WHEN* you see it... *IF* you see it and *IF* some other "issue" doesn't suddenly appear on CCP's to-do list and this stuff gets shitcanned.
And let's hope that any future "wreck diving" sites in the game actually spawn randomly throughout the 23.5 hour day.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
707
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 14:34:00 -
[823] - Quote
lol better luck next year
grown men playing with dolls roflroflroflrofl |
Donedy
Snuff Box Urine Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 14:48:00 -
[824] - Quote
Could we have pics? I want pics. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4045
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:08:00 -
[825] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:lol better luck next year
grown men playing with dolls roflroflroflrofl ... because no other interesting and successful game has engaging Avatar based game play. ... because playing with toy space ships is so much more mature.
If you're going to troll, try to be intelligent about it... or at least original. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1073
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 15:43:00 -
[826] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:So... - Missing NEx items: On Singularity since april 2011, some where released through FW to resounding failure. Currenlty abandoned. - Sleeve tattoos: Announced on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned. - racial blending: Teased on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned. - Captain's Quarters: interface not updated since 2011. Currently abandoned. - Dungeon raiding/exploration WiS: prototyped during 2012, shown to some players. Piece of mouth for Fanfest 2013. It's a pity we can't travel to Iceland and talk to you...
Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
481
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 16:39:00 -
[827] - Quote
Something just occurred to me:
1) Avatar gameplay is already set to take place on other servers, so that it doesn't slow down the FiS game;
2) World of Darkness has forked CARBON to make it work better for avatar gameplay;
3) DUST is a platform for CCP to polish CREST as a means for two games built on fundamentally different platforms (CARBON and UNREAL), running on different platforms (PC and PS), to talk to each other in real time.
So, once WoD has avatar gameplay all polished up, and the DUST/EVE integration is complete, CCP can create a separate avatar game for EVE using the WoD engine and running on its own farm, that communicates with EVE and DUST in real time using CREST. What we currently know as EVE will continue to run on an architecture optimized for flying in space.
And they can do this for anything. They can use whatever engine they want. They can use whatever platform they want. The potential is huge. And unlike last time, CCP has much better development processes in place, and they don't have to try to get EVE's CARBON to be able to do everything. They can use specialized engines and specialized clients, which is a complete game-changer.
When? Who knows? But once WoD and DUST are ready for prime time, CCP will have more options, and more achievable options, than they've ever had. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
Vote for CSM 8! |
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 19:30:00 -
[828] - Quote
Yes please CCP. more facets to this sci fi universe for us to interact with! |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1621
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:04:00 -
[829] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:So... - Missing NEx items: On Singularity since april 2011, some where released through FW to resounding failure. Currenlty abandoned. - Sleeve tattoos: Announced on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned. - racial blending: Teased on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned. - Captain's Quarters: interface not updated since 2011. Currently abandoned. - Dungeon raiding/exploration WiS: prototyped during 2012, shown to some players. Piece of mouth for Fanfest 2013. It's a pity we can't travel to Iceland and talk to you... Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.
That tech was never entirely for us, it was for WOD. EVE players were simply going to be the beta testers paying for said tech.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
268
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:42:00 -
[830] - Quote
I always wondered why you didn't change the logic for things like CQ to fit game-lore more.
Example of what I mean. "new use of technologies enable..." - so pod-pilots don't actually leave their pods. What they are is holograms with a force-field type tech enabling them to seem to be out of their pods. So they can walk around and do things but are limited to where they can do this by "emitters" that allow them to seem to walk around.
The above type of approach could be used to justify limits as well as expansion. For outside areas, such emitters could have a remote transmitter unit near by (such as a small electronic probe unit that broadcasts the signal where that small thing can go, it can project the image.) Such projections would be interfaced to the pod pilot, in their pod but it would allow them to do things like dress, move around, interact with things - remotely.
Instead we ended up with pods being optional vs pilots "stuck" in them, etc. The above limits what can be done to a pod pilot (gank a hologram? ...) but with the bulk of things that can be done still possible by the pilots, who remain in their pods. |
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
1532
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:46:00 -
[831] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:So... - Missing NEx items: On Singularity since april 2011, some where released through FW to resounding failure. Currenlty abandoned. - Sleeve tattoos: Announced on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned. - racial blending: Teased on fanfest 2012, currently abandoned. - Captain's Quarters: interface not updated since 2011. Currently abandoned. - Dungeon raiding/exploration WiS: prototyped during 2012, shown to some players. Piece of mouth for Fanfest 2013. It's a pity we can't travel to Iceland and talk to you... Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.
Well, WiS/Incarna is the first featureless feature in the history of EVE, that's some respectable record. And it is unlikely that this changes as CCP keeps lagging behind development needs and sooner than later they'll be struggling to merely save EVE.
Personally, i am looking forward at WoD as much as we can look forward to a project so obscure and so much in the future. Star Citizen, let's face it, won't have avatar gameplay beyond ship boarding (but sure will be a gorgeous game).
So well, what's left for EVE WiSers?
Hint: i started a forum bar rather than wait for CCP to get their sh*t right and deliver anything worth the wait. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Flamespar
Woof Club
555
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 01:51:00 -
[832] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Flamespar wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:As per the OP the stuff we've been working on is all for FiS. More at the talk in question which is going to be streamed out to the rest of the world at 1900 on Saturday according to the schedule.
If anyone wants to talk WiS then come find me at Fanfest. :D What happened to tattoos? This fell by the wayside when Team Avatar was disbanded and refocused. I've talked to CCP karkur about what is left that needs to be implemented and prompted CCP Seagull that this is something that we should do.
It would be great if we could some info relating to avatars at fanfest. As a group we have been extraordinarily patient in waiting to be able to explore EVE with our avatars, whether this be in stations or in derelicts, and we have put up with a lot of trolling from a minority of players and CCP's apparent refusal to even acknowledge this continued keen interest just rubs salt into the wound.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
459
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:00:00 -
[833] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.
CARBON is about updating old and horrid code to something that they can continue to work on and at the same time making it as EvE independent as possible.
WoD is the first target outside of EvE to share as much as possible of this new code.
The character character and the rest of the WiS part is just a fraction of CARBON.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
|
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CCP Bayesian
607
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:58:00 -
[834] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It would be great if we could some info relating to avatars at fanfest. As a group we have been extraordinarily patient in waiting to be able to explore EVE with our avatars, whether this be in stations or in derelicts, and we have put up with a lot of trolling from a minority of players and CCP's apparent refusal to even acknowledge this continued keen interest just rubs salt into the wound.
Come find myself, CCP Seagull or CCP Hellmar and come and ask questions about it during my presentation. I can talk to you about what I'd like to do and the other two are the people to pester about making more Avatar content a reality. I'm super keen to make some viable Avatar gameplay for EVE the problem at the moment as per the original posts is the resource requirements to do it properly whilst supporting the current EVE, DUST and WOD development. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1341
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 12:46:00 -
[835] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Flamespar wrote:It would be great if we could some info relating to avatars at fanfest. As a group we have been extraordinarily patient in waiting to be able to explore EVE with our avatars, whether this be in stations or in derelicts, and we have put up with a lot of trolling from a minority of players and CCP's apparent refusal to even acknowledge this continued keen interest just rubs salt into the wound. Come find myself, CCP Seagull or CCP Hellmar and come and ask questions about it during my presentation. I can talk to you about what I'd like to do and the other two are the people to pester about making more Avatar content a reality. I'm super keen to make some viable Avatar gameplay for EVE the problem at the moment as per the original posts is the resource requirements to do it properly whilst supporting the current EVE, DUST and WOD development.
I booked the fanfest times off with the specific intention of coming along to rain a barrage of questions at your guys about why we haven't seen any development time on WiS recently. Unfortunately I am unable to make it. But know in spirit, that I am there, badgering you guys continuously.
Also, I look forward to watching your presentation on the live feed. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1074
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:06:00 -
[836] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.
CARBON is about updating old and horrid code to something that they can continue to work on and at the same time making it as EvE independent as possible. WoD is the first target outside of EvE to share as much as possible of this new code. The character character and the rest of the WiS part is just a fraction of CARBON.
Problem with this way of looking at things is that this stuff gets outdated fairly quick. When CCP was still hinting at ambulation, and showing those short videos and whatnot, that stuff was absolutely bleeding cutting edge. Even when they released Inarna it was arguably the best character creator (I say arguably because a lot of games had comparable or better in some areas stuff, like APB). However, bare-bones Incarna came out two years ago. Another two to three years, and that stuff will be obsolete. And when is WoD coming out? My magic 8-ball says "Not anytime soon".
Bottom line, making all that stuff and then not making any reasonable use of it, while the content is getting older and getting closer to being outdated year after year, is not a very smart move. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1533
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:19:00 -
[837] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Flamespar wrote:It would be great if we could some info relating to avatars at fanfest. As a group we have been extraordinarily patient in waiting to be able to explore EVE with our avatars, whether this be in stations or in derelicts, and we have put up with a lot of trolling from a minority of players and CCP's apparent refusal to even acknowledge this continued keen interest just rubs salt into the wound. Come find myself, CCP Seagull or CCP Hellmar and come and ask questions about it during my presentation. I can talk to you about what I'd like to do and the other two are the people to pester about making more Avatar content a reality. I'm super keen to make some viable Avatar gameplay for EVE the problem at the moment as per the original posts is the resource requirements to do it properly whilst supporting the current EVE, DUST and WOD development.
Well, if i could go to Iceland and talk to you, i would point that turning WiS into a matter of getting the mother of all Jesus features or nothing, rather than take a "small teps" approach, has essentially costed us all avatar content for 2013 and 2014.
Also would point that waiting until all FiS is sorted means that there will not be anyone left to worry about WiS. Unlike Faction Warfare, Bounty Hunting, Planetary Interaction and the other underdogs, we don't have a feature to use in its "non-iterated" release form until you "iterate" it. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
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CCP Bayesian
608
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:30:00 -
[838] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, if i could go to Iceland and talk to you, i would point that turning WiS into a matter of getting the mother of all Jesus features or nothing, rather than take a "small teps" approach, has essentially costed us all avatar content for 2013 and 2014.
Taking a small steps approach isn't appropriate, as I've explained previously there is a large amount of work to do on the existing tech base to put us in a position to successfully add meaningful gameplay. If we were in the position to do things in small steps I think it would be a no brainer to continue development of Avatar gameplay.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Also would point that waiting until all FiS is sorted means that there will not be anyone left to worry about WiS. Unlike Faction Warfare, Bounty Hunting, Planetary Interaction and the other underdogs, we don't have a feature to use in its "non-iterated" release form until you "iterate" it.
I don't think anyone has said that we're waiting for all FiS to be sorted. Clearly the evolution of EVE has to continue in the space game as much as it needs to continue broadening out into adding depth to other potential areas of the game universe. With limited resources hard choices need to be made about what is and isn't considered as a priority. Currently the internet spaceship side of EVE has priority as do DUST and WOD. I'd very much like to get the greenlight to add breadth and depth to the EVE universe in other areas like Avatar gameplay but that is a business level decision that our Executive Producer needs to make. Customer "noise" in that regard is important. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
1533
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 13:30:00 -
[839] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.
CARBON is about updating old and horrid code to something that they can continue to work on and at the same time making it as EvE independent as possible. WoD is the first target outside of EvE to share as much as possible of this new code. The character character and the rest of the WiS part is just a fraction of CARBON. Problem with this way of looking at things is that this stuff gets outdated fairly quick. When CCP was still hinting at ambulation, and showing those short videos and whatnot, that stuff was absolutely bleeding cutting edge. Even when they released Inarna it was arguably the best character creator (I say arguably because a lot of games had comparable or better in some areas stuff, like APB). However, bare-bones Incarna came out two years ago. Another two to three years, and that stuff will be obsolete. And when is WoD coming out? My magic 8-ball says "Not anytime soon". Bottom line, making all that stuff and then not making any reasonable use of it, while the content is getting older and getting closer to being outdated year after year, is not a very smart move.
Heh. WiS died the day WoD engine was detached from EVE. CCP is gonna be busy with DUST and FiS at least until 2015, and by then everything avatar in EVE will be 5 years old, in case they don't scrap it before in an attack of honesty. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1534
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:01:00 -
[840] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, if i could go to Iceland and talk to you, i would point that turning WiS into a matter of getting the mother of all Jesus features or nothing, rather than take a "small teps" approach, has essentially costed us all avatar content for 2013 and 2014. Taking a small steps approach isn't appropriate, as I've explained previously there is a large amount of work to do on the existing tech base to put us in a position to successfully add meaningful gameplay. If we were in the position to do things in small steps I think it would be a no brainer to continue development of Avatar gameplay. Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Also would point that waiting until all FiS is sorted means that there will not be anyone left to worry about WiS. Unlike Faction Warfare, Bounty Hunting, Planetary Interaction and the other underdogs, we don't have a feature to use in its "non-iterated" release form until you "iterate" it. I don't think anyone has said that we're waiting for all FiS to be sorted. Clearly the evolution of EVE has to continue in the space game as much as it needs to continue broadening out into adding depth to other potential areas of the game universe. With limited resources hard choices need to be made about what is and isn't considered as a priority. Currently the internet spaceship side of EVE has priority as do DUST and WOD. I'd very much like to get the greenlight to add breadth and depth to the EVE universe in other areas like Avatar gameplay but that is a business level decision that our Executive Producer needs to make. Customer "noise" in that regard is important.
Well, there are two ways to add "meaningful gameplay". One is in a single stride, Jesus-feature, with masive assets and stuff.
Other is in a humbler way, better fit to the actual resources.
We can build a big cart (the Prototype) and wait to find a horse to drag it, or we can agree that all that's left in the farm is a dog so better we make a smaller cart for starters.
That's my gripe, some players would be happy just having 2 avatars in our prison cells (maybe even 3), and yet we must wait until you can afford to build a whole space station -quite litherally- to kill each other -that original, never seen before activity in EVE- and then maybe we're allowed to create our own content w/o waiting for you to hand it in a platter.
"Meaningful gameplay" are such loaded words. "Meaningful" to whom? To the FW PvPrs who got a whole bunch of clothes for their exclusive use? Or to the people who wrote 10,000 posts about rating the avatar above?
Don't be mistaken: I also would like to see "meaningful gameplay" instead of a glorified chat, but, what's "meaningful" again? How "meaningful" is the Prototype to soloers and casuals? How "meaningful" to hiseccers, carebears or PvErs? Why should someone stop doing FiS PvP to start doing WiS PvP?
I already suggested a way to allow players to trigger events through NPCs (as much as nullsec is about blowing structures), whose assets could be escalable (it could start litherally with the existing CQ) and evolve into something quite sophisticate through mechanics alone. A "meaningful gameplay" that involved people and not ships.
It's not about finding time and a horse to drag that big Prototype cart. Maybe we could just build a dog-sized cart... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
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Ghazu
571
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:37:00 -
[841] - Quote
dear ccp i really want to emote with a bunch of dudes like asap, even if its just a three some. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
460
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 14:40:00 -
[842] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Don't forget the YEARS during which the rest of EVE was heavily neglected while they worked on the Carbon and character creator. If WiS is abandoned, that entire effort is utterly wasted. What good is that "cutting edge" character creation if nobody will ever see it? Time not-too-well wasted, if you ask me.
CARBON is about updating old and horrid code to something that they can continue to work on and at the same time making it as EvE independent as possible. WoD is the first target outside of EvE to share as much as possible of this new code. The character character and the rest of the WiS part is just a fraction of CARBON. Problem with this way of looking at things is that this stuff gets outdated fairly quick. When CCP was still hinting at ambulation, and showing those short videos and whatnot, that stuff was absolutely bleeding cutting edge. Even when they released Inarna it was arguably the best character creator (I say arguably because a lot of games had comparable or better in some areas stuff, like APB). However, bare-bones Incarna came out two years ago. Another two to three years, and that stuff will be obsolete. And when is WoD coming out? My magic 8-ball says "Not anytime soon". Bottom line, making all that stuff and then not making any reasonable use of it, while the content is getting older and getting closer to being outdated year after year, is not a very smart move.
There's a huge difference between code that is written on a shoestring budget and quite often in semi-panic mode to get it to solve a single issue and code that is written to be maintainable and reusable.
The latter stands the test of time quite well.
And that is what Carbon is all about, getting rid of old yucky code and bit by bit turning a hard-coded game into a generic game engine.
The avatar part of Carbon wasn't mainly created to solve anything within EvE. It was created because WoD needed it. But in line with the Carbonification of EvE it was (at least initially) coded to be part of the generic engine.
If CQ was intended as a nice way to use the shared code or if it just was a blatant attempt to use EvE-players to alpha test it is up to everyone to judge for them self.
But keep in mind that it's a tiny little bit of Carbon, the majority of the effort they've invested is stuff that we use every single day no matter what we do.
It's recoded database handling and structure, new UI framework, client/server communication, huge amounts of optimising performance and tons of other "invisible" stuff.
So the effort isn't wasted in any way shape or form.
If the limited CQ/Avatar part of it is still used in WoD or if it's wasted will remain unknown outside of CCP until we get the first demos of WoD.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
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CCP Bayesian
612
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:11:00 -
[843] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, there are two ways to add "meaningful gameplay". One is in a single stride, Jesus-feature, with masive assets and stuff.
Other is in a humbler way, better fit to the actual resources.
Actually there is a third way which is to develop the feature in stages showing it to our userbase and elliciting feedback. That's the one I route if I had a choice I would like to take. Giant monolithic Jesus feature or humble little iterations is just a false dichotomy. There is still a large amount of tech work that would need to be done to make creating little iterations a possibility.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:We can build a big cart (the Prototype) and wait to find a horse to drag it, or we can agree that all that's left in the farm is a dog so better we make a smaller cart for starters.
That's my gripe, some players would be happy just having 2 avatars in our prison cells (maybe even 3), and yet we must wait until you can afford to build a whole space station -quite litherally- to kill each other -that original, never seen before activity in EVE- and then maybe we're allowed to create our own content w/o waiting for you to hand it in a platter.
"Meaningful gameplay" are such loaded words. "Meaningful" to whom? To the FW PvPrs who got a whole bunch of clothes for their exclusive use? Or to the people who wrote 10,000 posts about rating the avatar above?
Don't be mistaken: I also would like to see "meaningful gameplay" instead of a glorified chat, but, what's "meaningful" again? How "meaningful" is the Prototype to soloers and casuals? How "meaningful" to hiseccers, carebears or PvErs? Why should someone stop doing FiS PvP to start doing WiS PvP?
Nothing I've ever said has suggested the prototype is PvP only. Most of it is about exploring highly dangerous wrecks in a cooperative fashion. PvP is an element because it's an element of creating an experience with verisimilitude in EVE. I think I've corrected you about this previously as well. One of our inspirations was Moonbase Alpha which has no combat in it at all!
EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
638
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 15:58:00 -
[844] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, if i could go to Iceland and talk to you, i would point that turning WiS into a matter of getting the mother of all Jesus features or nothing, rather than take a "small teps" approach, has essentially costed us all avatar content for 2013 and 2014. Taking a small steps approach isn't appropriate, as I've explained previously there is a large amount of work to do on the existing tech base to put us in a position to successfully add meaningful gameplay. If we were in the position to do things in small steps I think it would be a no brainer to continue development of Avatar gameplay.
Overcomplicated goals. I'll be more than happy to be able to just walk in common station halls along with other players, see through station windows (ships and battles outside) and interact with basic station services. And I'd pay for such expansion. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1342
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 16:39:00 -
[845] - Quote
I too would be happy to just walk around in a common area like a corporate quarters with some small content drivers such as gambling, betting, or the sale of some kind of boosters.
However, I understand the need of the general player base to see some kind of PvE/PvP content and some degree of exciting/violence based gameplay. So if that's what it takes to see WiS realised then I am in support of it. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
fukier
932
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:02:00 -
[846] - Quote
the problem as i see it with avatar gameplay is the tech was so advanced and most eve players use old xp comps and they would not be compatible with avatar gameplay...
so untill the average eve player upgrades thier comps it would be superflous to take the time to make meaningfull avatar gameplay...
but yes i would love to see this done in the future... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Sarah Lagrange
Pegusus Rising
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:19:00 -
[847] - Quote
Why not do an interactive web cast, just like all those video dev blogs we get.. that way we all get to see the idea, can all give feedback, ask questions and it's in a controlled environment. Maybe after FanFest so you keep the "look at what we did" factor. ??? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4067
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 17:26:00 -
[848] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, if i could go to Iceland and talk to you, i would point that turning WiS into a matter of getting the mother of all Jesus features or nothing, rather than take a "small teps" approach, has essentially costed us all avatar content for 2013 and 2014. Taking a small steps approach isn't appropriate, as I've explained previously there is a large amount of work to do on the existing tech base to put us in a position to successfully add meaningful gameplay. If we were in the position to do things in small steps I think it would be a no brainer to continue development of Avatar gameplay. Overcomplicated goals. I'll be more than happy to be able to just walk in common station halls along with other players, see through station windows (ships and battles outside) and interact with basic station services. And I'd pay for such expansion. I think his point was that to go anywhere beyond the current state is going to require significant resources to develop/impliment... even if it were kept relatively basic. It seems doubtful they will get those resources put at their disposal unless they have a plan to make that investment in time and resources meaningful to the game, as it likely would involve almost as much to develop something relatively trivial.
I know what you are saying, anything is better than nothing, but truthfully any investment of significant resources will bear intense scruitiny from the players... and anything created that isn't somewhat meaningful will be ripped apart by the rest of the player base. We'd be pretty much right back where we started, making sacrifices to the rest of the game with no worthwhile payoff for the effort.
I really hate to say I'd rather wait, but I'd prefer it gets the attention it deserves... and I'd MUCH prefer that when all is said and done that CCP receives praise for their efforts instead of flames. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Deborah Bat-Zeev
Observant Eye Inc
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:00:00 -
[849] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: and I'd MUCH prefer that when all is said and done that CCP receives praise for their efforts instead of flames.
Well, currently there are no efforts. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The last remnants of avatar development have been shelved half a year ago and it's obvious CCP won't change anything about that in the forseeable future. Why would they if there are enough players happy with the little they get and piling up alt accounts like they're going to be sold out tomorrow. I do believe that CCP Bayesian is honest about his enthusiasm for avatars in Eve and his assessment of the situation but what he basically says is that DUST and WOD gobble up most of CCP's resources and what's left is barely enough to get a few fixes and tweaks done for existing Eve gameplay. Given that DUST will still require several years of focused attention after its release to become an at least somewhat competitive game and that WOD isn't even anywhere near beta stage, when will CCP have the spare resources to actually continue working on avatars? 2020? 2025? |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
283
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:16:00 -
[850] - Quote
What Deborah said. I'd really love it if EVE got more support and more iteration out of the subscriptions paying for it. I know that's not 100% possible? But surely if that WoD/DUST avatar stuff is Carbonized...? |
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1538
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:52:00 -
[851] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, there are two ways to add "meaningful gameplay". One is in a single stride, Jesus-feature, with masive assets and stuff.
Other is in a humbler way, better fit to the actual resources. Actually there is a third way which is to develop the feature in stages showing it to our userbase and elliciting feedback. That's the one I route if I had a choice I would like to take. Giant monolithic Jesus feature or humble little iterations is just a false dichotomy. There is still a large amount of tech work that would need to be done to make creating little iterations a possibility.
Well, the feedback that the Prototype is NOT what we were waiting for 5 years hasn't been much useful yet, has it? We're stuck waiting for a massive feature with lots of assets and which esentially is more of the same as FiS. I shall repeat, what's the use of the Prototype for soloers? None. Casuals? None. Lowsec? None. PvE? None. Why should anyone stop doing whatever he does in FiS to start doing the same old drill on WiS?
CCP Bayesian wrote: Nothing I've ever said has suggested the prototype is PvP only. Most of it is about exploring highly dangerous wrecks in a cooperative fashion. PvP is an element because it's an element of creating an experience with verisimilitude in EVE. I think I've corrected you about this previously as well. One of our inspirations was Moonbase Alpha which has no combat in it at all!
Can players kill each other? Yes. And that's exactly what they will do, first and most, and as often as they can. That's very original, has never been seen before in EVE.
I wanted/hped/wished/expected WiS to provide what EVE lacks: meaningful soloable, casual friendly, hisec endgame content. The Prototype serves nothing of that, and anyway it's not going to be delivered for at least two years.
Now I am so stupid that I am hoping to see meaningful soloable, casual friendly, hisec endgame FiS content, just because a couple lines in the CSM meeting minutes apparently hinted that CCP just noticed that a majority of players don't play EVE the way they are supposed to. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4071
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:54:00 -
[852] - Quote
Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: and I'd MUCH prefer that when all is said and done that CCP receives praise for their efforts instead of flames. Well, currently there are no efforts. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The last remnants of avatar development have been shelved half a year ago and it's obvious CCP won't change anything about that in the forseeable future. Why would they if there are enough players happy with the little they get and piling up alt accounts like they're going to be sold out tomorrow. I do believe that CCP Bayesian is honest about his enthusiasm for avatars in Eve and his assessment of the situation but what he basically says is that DUST and WOD gobble up most of CCP's resources and what's left is barely enough to get a few fixes and tweaks done for existing Eve gameplay. Given that DUST will still require several years of focused attention after its release to become an at least somewhat competitive game and that WOD isn't even anywhere near beta stage, when will CCP have the spare resources to actually continue working on avatars? 2020? 2025? Point being, aside from some mostly completed tidbits like clothing, there isn't anything that CAN be developed until some significant resources are devoted to it.
Not to make too big a point of this, but I'd hardly call the last few expansions we have seen "a few fixes and tweaks".
Hopefully Fanfest will provide a clearer picture of the likely time table for this work. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4071
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 19:59:00 -
[853] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, there are two ways to add "meaningful gameplay". One is in a single stride, Jesus-feature, with masive assets and stuff.
Other is in a humbler way, better fit to the actual resources. Actually there is a third way which is to develop the feature in stages showing it to our userbase and elliciting feedback. That's the one I route if I had a choice I would like to take. Giant monolithic Jesus feature or humble little iterations is just a false dichotomy. There is still a large amount of tech work that would need to be done to make creating little iterations a possibility. Well, the feedback that the Prototype is NOT what we were waiting for 5 years hasn't been much useful yet, has it? We're stuck waiting for a massive feature with lots of assets and which esentially is more of the same as FiS. I shall repeat, what's the use of the Prototype for soloers? None. Casuals? None. Lowsec? None. PvE? None. Why should anyone stop doing whatever he does in FiS to start doing the same old drill on WiS? CCP Bayesian wrote: Nothing I've ever said has suggested the prototype is PvP only. Most of it is about exploring highly dangerous wrecks in a cooperative fashion. PvP is an element because it's an element of creating an experience with verisimilitude in EVE. I think I've corrected you about this previously as well. One of our inspirations was Moonbase Alpha which has no combat in it at all!
Can players kill each other? Yes. And that's exactly what they will do, first and most, and as often as they can. That's very original, has never been seen before in EVE. I wanted/hped/wished/expected WiS to provide what EVE lacks: meaningful soloable, casual friendly, hisec endgame content. The Prototype serves nothing of that, and anyway it's not going to be delivered for at least two years. Now I am so stupid that I am hoping to see meaningful soloable, casual friendly, hisec endgame FiS content, just because a couple lines in the CSM meeting minutes apparently hinted that CCP just noticed that a majority of players don't play EVE the way they are supposed to.
I don't see why a lot of this content could not be made doable by solo players, perhaps with some area's inaccessable unless you have a team assisting you (as is logical).
However, if you don't include some element of danger, PVP, and rewards for interacting with others, this whole concept will go no where and be abandoned permanently.
I'm not saying that is a good or a bad thing, I'm just saying that those are the facts of the matter. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1538
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:00:00 -
[854] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Lipbite wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, if i could go to Iceland and talk to you, i would point that turning WiS into a matter of getting the mother of all Jesus features or nothing, rather than take a "small teps" approach, has essentially costed us all avatar content for 2013 and 2014. Taking a small steps approach isn't appropriate, as I've explained previously there is a large amount of work to do on the existing tech base to put us in a position to successfully add meaningful gameplay. If we were in the position to do things in small steps I think it would be a no brainer to continue development of Avatar gameplay. Overcomplicated goals. I'll be more than happy to be able to just walk in common station halls along with other players, see through station windows (ships and battles outside) and interact with basic station services. And I'd pay for such expansion. I think his point was that to go anywhere beyond the current state is going to require significant resources to develop/impliment... even if it were kept relatively basic. It seems doubtful they will get those resources put at their disposal unless they have a plan to make that investment in time and resources meaningful to the game, as it likely would involve almost as much to develop something relatively trivial. I know what you are saying, anything is better than nothing, but truthfully any investment of significant resources will bear intense scruitiny from the players... and anything created that isn't somewhat meaningful will be ripped apart by the rest of the player base. We'd be pretty much right back where we started, making sacrifices to the rest of the game with no worthwhile payoff for the effort. I really hate to say I'd rather wait, but I'd prefer it gets the attention it deserves... and I'd MUCH prefer that when all is said and done that CCP receives praise for their efforts instead of flames.
Well, WiS as "new gameplay" faces a serious trhreat of being blown to smitherens by nullsec opposition, roughly as happeend with Incursions, if it as much as is "meaningful" to FiS.
The obvious solution is to not make it compete with FiS, but hey, that would be truly original (= "not meaningful"). Setting goals that don't end up asploding a ship? Heh. Go play something else. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1626
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:03:00 -
[855] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, there are two ways to add "meaningful gameplay". One is in a single stride, Jesus-feature, with masive assets and stuff.
Other is in a humbler way, better fit to the actual resources. Actually there is a third way which is to develop the feature in stages showing it to our userbase and elliciting feedback. That's the one I route if I had a choice I would like to take. Giant monolithic Jesus feature or humble little iterations is just a false dichotomy. There is still a large amount of tech work that would need to be done to make creating little iterations a possibility. Well, the feedback that the Prototype is NOT what we were waiting for 5 years hasn't been much useful yet, has it? We're stuck waiting for a massive feature with lots of assets and which esentially is more of the same as FiS. I shall repeat, what's the use of the Prototype for soloers? None. Casuals? None. Lowsec? None. PvE? None. Why should anyone stop doing whatever he does in FiS to start doing the same old drill on WiS? CCP Bayesian wrote: Nothing I've ever said has suggested the prototype is PvP only. Most of it is about exploring highly dangerous wrecks in a cooperative fashion. PvP is an element because it's an element of creating an experience with verisimilitude in EVE. I think I've corrected you about this previously as well. One of our inspirations was Moonbase Alpha which has no combat in it at all!
Can players kill each other? Yes. And that's exactly what they will do, first and most, and as often as they can. That's very original, has never been seen before in EVE. I wanted/hped/wished/expected WiS to provide what EVE lacks: meaningful soloable, casual friendly, hisec endgame content. The Prototype serves nothing of that, and anyway it's not going to be delivered for at least two years. Now I am so stupid that I am hoping to see meaningful soloable, casual friendly, hisec endgame FiS content, just because a couple lines in the CSM meeting minutes apparently hinted that CCP just noticed that a majority of players don't play EVE the way they are supposed to.
tl; dr:
She expected WIS to be a theme park extension to EVE, and she wants it NAOW!!! She knows how to allocate resources better than CCP, and you should be listening to her!!!.
/Otherwise she'll probably threaten to quit again.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4073
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:06:00 -
[856] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Lipbite wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, if i could go to Iceland and talk to you, i would point that turning WiS into a matter of getting the mother of all Jesus features or nothing, rather than take a "small teps" approach, has essentially costed us all avatar content for 2013 and 2014. Taking a small steps approach isn't appropriate, as I've explained previously there is a large amount of work to do on the existing tech base to put us in a position to successfully add meaningful gameplay. If we were in the position to do things in small steps I think it would be a no brainer to continue development of Avatar gameplay. Overcomplicated goals. I'll be more than happy to be able to just walk in common station halls along with other players, see through station windows (ships and battles outside) and interact with basic station services. And I'd pay for such expansion. I think his point was that to go anywhere beyond the current state is going to require significant resources to develop/impliment... even if it were kept relatively basic. It seems doubtful they will get those resources put at their disposal unless they have a plan to make that investment in time and resources meaningful to the game, as it likely would involve almost as much to develop something relatively trivial. I know what you are saying, anything is better than nothing, but truthfully any investment of significant resources will bear intense scruitiny from the players... and anything created that isn't somewhat meaningful will be ripped apart by the rest of the player base. We'd be pretty much right back where we started, making sacrifices to the rest of the game with no worthwhile payoff for the effort. I really hate to say I'd rather wait, but I'd prefer it gets the attention it deserves... and I'd MUCH prefer that when all is said and done that CCP receives praise for their efforts instead of flames. Well, WiS as "new gameplay" faces a serious trhreat of being blown to smitherens by nullsec opposition, roughly as happeend with Incursions, if it as much as is "meaningful" to FiS. The obvious solution is to not make it compete with FiS, but hey, that would be truly original (= "not meaningful"). Setting goals that don't end up asploding a ship? Heh. Go play something else. I kind of doubt wreck diving combat would involve losing a ship, unless it was the ship you arrived in if left vulnerable. Instead I imagine the only thing at risk would be your clone, implants and equipment. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1538
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:11:00 -
[857] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, there are two ways to add "meaningful gameplay". One is in a single stride, Jesus-feature, with masive assets and stuff.
Other is in a humbler way, better fit to the actual resources. Actually there is a third way which is to develop the feature in stages showing it to our userbase and elliciting feedback. That's the one I route if I had a choice I would like to take. Giant monolithic Jesus feature or humble little iterations is just a false dichotomy. There is still a large amount of tech work that would need to be done to make creating little iterations a possibility. Well, the feedback that the Prototype is NOT what we were waiting for 5 years hasn't been much useful yet, has it? We're stuck waiting for a massive feature with lots of assets and which esentially is more of the same as FiS. I shall repeat, what's the use of the Prototype for soloers? None. Casuals? None. Lowsec? None. PvE? None. Why should anyone stop doing whatever he does in FiS to start doing the same old drill on WiS? CCP Bayesian wrote: Nothing I've ever said has suggested the prototype is PvP only. Most of it is about exploring highly dangerous wrecks in a cooperative fashion. PvP is an element because it's an element of creating an experience with verisimilitude in EVE. I think I've corrected you about this previously as well. One of our inspirations was Moonbase Alpha which has no combat in it at all!
Can players kill each other? Yes. And that's exactly what they will do, first and most, and as often as they can. That's very original, has never been seen before in EVE. I wanted/hped/wished/expected WiS to provide what EVE lacks: meaningful soloable, casual friendly, hisec endgame content. The Prototype serves nothing of that, and anyway it's not going to be delivered for at least two years. Now I am so stupid that I am hoping to see meaningful soloable, casual friendly, hisec endgame FiS content, just because a couple lines in the CSM meeting minutes apparently hinted that CCP just noticed that a majority of players don't play EVE the way they are supposed to. I don't see why a lot of this content could not be made doable by solo players, perhaps with some area's inaccessable unless you have a team assisting you (as is logical). However, if you don't include some element of danger, PVP, and rewards for interacting with others, this whole concept will go no where and be abandoned permanently. I'm not saying that is a good or a bad thing, I'm just saying that those are the facts of the matter.
The fiercest PvP in EVE is not related at all with locking someone in a radioactive room until he dies, haw haw, how funny. It involves spreadsheets and selling and buying.
PvP and danger take many forms. And put bluntly, I didn't RP my characters for years to have them murdered by some jerk while exploring some dungeon in search for some treasure chest. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1538
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:36:00 -
[858] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, there are two ways to add "meaningful gameplay". One is in a single stride, Jesus-feature, with masive assets and stuff.
Other is in a humbler way, better fit to the actual resources. Actually there is a third way which is to develop the feature in stages showing it to our userbase and elliciting feedback. That's the one I route if I had a choice I would like to take. Giant monolithic Jesus feature or humble little iterations is just a false dichotomy. There is still a large amount of tech work that would need to be done to make creating little iterations a possibility. Well, the feedback that the Prototype is NOT what we were waiting for 5 years hasn't been much useful yet, has it? We're stuck waiting for a massive feature with lots of assets and which esentially is more of the same as FiS. I shall repeat, what's the use of the Prototype for soloers? None. Casuals? None. Lowsec? None. PvE? None. Why should anyone stop doing whatever he does in FiS to start doing the same old drill on WiS? CCP Bayesian wrote: Nothing I've ever said has suggested the prototype is PvP only. Most of it is about exploring highly dangerous wrecks in a cooperative fashion. PvP is an element because it's an element of creating an experience with verisimilitude in EVE. I think I've corrected you about this previously as well. One of our inspirations was Moonbase Alpha which has no combat in it at all!
Can players kill each other? Yes. And that's exactly what they will do, first and most, and as often as they can. That's very original, has never been seen before in EVE. I wanted/hped/wished/expected WiS to provide what EVE lacks: meaningful soloable, casual friendly, hisec endgame content. The Prototype serves nothing of that, and anyway it's not going to be delivered for at least two years. Now I am so stupid that I am hoping to see meaningful soloable, casual friendly, hisec endgame FiS content, just because a couple lines in the CSM meeting minutes apparently hinted that CCP just noticed that a majority of players don't play EVE the way they are supposed to. tl; dr: She expected WIS to be a theme park extension to EVE, and she wants it NAOW!!! She knows how to allocate resources better than CCP, and you should be listening to her!!!. /Otherwise she'll probably threaten to quit again.
I'm not subbed, in case you wonder. CCP has been devaluating the cost of subcription to a point where having a recurring sub is a waste, I can just wait for offers to come and play for 10 euros a month.
So no, I'm not quitting, as I already did that on October. Now, there's a couple games I want to give a try when I grow tired with EVE again so probably i'll be around until Odyssey or the new EP. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4073
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:42:00 -
[859] - Quote
I know what you are saying, but I still don't think you are going to get a lot of support from the community for a first person element in EvE unless there is the potential for combat.
My personal emphasis for first person game play is that it be meaningful and immersive, and contain unique elements that set it apart from from yet still compliment current EvE game play... and I'm likely not the only one. So in that you and I don't differ a great deal.
However without a combat element resistance to the idea from the community as a whole is going to get a lot more wide spread. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Preestar
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 20:52:00 -
[860] - Quote
Give us strip clubs and poker tables, instantly double current subs. |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1626
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:00:00 -
[861] - Quote
Preestar wrote:Give us strip clubs and poker tables, instantly double current subs.
notsureifserious.jpg
Yup, that'll encourage people who otherwise would not, to spend $15/mo.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4073
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:35:00 -
[862] - Quote
You know, the oft used saying "playing with dolls" prompted me to say something about a variation that would be possible to the prototype already developed that might solve a few issues and open up some interesting options.
Whether due to legal reasons or technical limitations you are limited to having one clone housing your consciousness at a time. Even with DUST style sleeper implants, capsuleers may be a bit hesitant to trust their "mind" to a clone that will be operating in a dangerous and interference generating environment. If the clone died and the transfer of consciousness was interfered with, that would be the end of your "immortal" life.
So perhaps the way forward would be to have a jump clone created with specialized implants that allowed a "remote connection" of sorts... one that if your control or presence in the body via a "wireless connection" was interupted no harm would be done.
More or less, that clone would be little more than a puppet on a string, or a "doll" if you will, and if the connection is cut or interfered with the body goes limp and your mind snaps back to your true clone that is safely back in your ship outside.
To flesh out this game play you could develop EvE's first true exploration vessel. One that had bonuses for probes and such, but also could house a single clone "Clone Vat" for keeping your Doll alive while unoccupied. It would also need to be able to mount the equipment needed to establish the connection between your mind and the Doll, likely with a limited range due to heavy bandwidtch requirements for the activity (say perhaps a 5km radius). This vessel would also likely need to have the ability to mount a cloak, although a covert ops cloak would not be a necessity.
So the game play would consist of probing out a suitable site to wreck dive, warp to it, put your ship in orbit around it within control range, and cloak up. Then you flip the switch and enter your Doll, EVA over to the wreck and start exploration.
Obviously your ship might get uncloaked and destroyed, with the usual consequences. If your Doll is killed in the wreck, or enters a "no reception zone" and contact is lost, your mind snaps fully back into your regular clone. You would of course have the option of abandoning your Doll if it became trapped, or in case of an emergency (like being in danger of being decloaked).
I was thinking it might open up some possibilities, tie into FIS a little more directly in a unique way, support existing lore in an interesting way, and be fully compliant with the work already done on the prototype.
Men playing with Dolls indeed.
Just a thought, sorry for the side track. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1346
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 22:08:00 -
[863] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Stuff
I'm sorry, but many of us want WiS content, but we know that can't just make glorified bars because the vast majority of the playerbase isn't going to want it. At the end of the day, CCP need to cater to their current market, and by the sounds of things, you really don't fit into that market.
Now, I want some in-station environments as much as the next supporter, but I understand that kind of content wont do anything for upwards of half of the player base. And so, I am happy with some kind of wreck diving content. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ivoto
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 23:17:00 -
[864] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Preestar wrote:Give us strip clubs and poker tables, instantly double current subs. notsureifserious.jpg Yup, that'll encourage people who otherwise would not, to spend $15/mo. Never underestimate the power of mom's basement
|
Soulpirate
Bedrock Industrial
272
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 23:36:00 -
[865] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Stuff I'm sorry, but many of us want WiS content, but we know that can't just make glorified bars because the vast majority of the playerbase isn't going to want it. At the end of the day, CCP need to cater to their current market, and by the sounds of things, you really don't fit into that market. Now, I want some in-station environments as much as the next supporter, but I understand that kind of content wont do anything for upwards of half of the player base. And so, I am happy with some kind of wreck diving content. So CCP should only cater to the customers it already has at the cost of attracking new ones. Gotcha.
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1347
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 00:16:00 -
[866] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Stuff I'm sorry, but many of us want WiS content, but we know that can't just make glorified bars because the vast majority of the playerbase isn't going to want it. At the end of the day, CCP need to cater to their current market, and by the sounds of things, you really don't fit into that market. Now, I want some in-station environments as much as the next supporter, but I understand that kind of content wont do anything for upwards of half of the player base. And so, I am happy with some kind of wreck diving content. So CCP should only cater to the customers it already has at the cost of attracking new ones. Gotcha.
CCP are catering to customers they don't have... That's what Dust is for. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Michael Stabb
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 01:36:00 -
[867] - Quote
I want bars and secwars, just as promised! :( |
Ghazu
571
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 04:50:00 -
[868] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:You know, the oft used saying "playing with dolls" prompted me to say something about a variation that would be possible to the prototype already developed that might solve a few issues and open up some interesting options. Whether due to legal reasons or technical limitations you are limited to having one clone housing your consciousness at a time. Even with DUST style sleeper implants, capsuleers may be a bit hesitant to trust their "mind" to a clone that will be operating in a dangerous and interference generating environment. If the clone died and the transfer of consciousness was interfered with, that would be the end of your "immortal" life. So perhaps the way forward would be to have a jump clone created with specialized implants that allowed a "remote connection" of sorts... one that if your control or presence in the body via a "wireless connection" was interupted no harm would be done. More or less, that clone would be little more than a puppet on a string, or a "doll" if you will, and if the connection is cut or interfered with the body goes limp and your mind snaps back to your true clone that is safely back in your ship outside. To flesh out this game play you could develop EvE's first true exploration vessel. One that had bonuses for probes and such, but also could house a single clone "Clone Vat" for keeping your Doll alive while unoccupied. It would also need to be able to mount the equipment needed to establish the connection between your mind and the Doll, likely with a limited range due to heavy bandwidtch requirements for the activity (say perhaps a 5km radius). This vessel would also likely need to have the ability to mount a cloak, although a covert ops cloak would not be a necessity. So the game play would consist of probing out a suitable site to wreck dive, warp to it, put your ship in orbit around it within control range, and cloak up. Then you flip the switch and enter your Doll, EVA over to the wreck and start exploration. Obviously your ship might get uncloaked and destroyed, with the usual consequences. If your Doll is killed in the wreck, or enters a "no reception zone" and contact is lost, your mind snaps fully back into your regular clone. You would of course have the option of abandoning your Doll if it became trapped, or in case of an emergency (like being in danger of being decloaked). I was thinking it might open up some possibilities, tie into FIS a little more directly in a unique way, support existing lore in an interesting way, and be fully compliant with the work already done on the prototype. Men playing with Dolls indeed. Just a thought, sorry for the side track.
no. that is exactly the wrong kind of mentality the barbie freakers have, ~if its emoting with a bunch of dudes at a pretend bar i want to emote with other dudes with my "main" character, like i've been RPing for years but ho ho ho when it comes to some risk i'd rather use my "doll"? it's just a repeat of that dogshite drone clone idea. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Soulpirate
Bedrock Industrial
272
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 05:05:00 -
[869] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Soulpirate wrote:Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Stuff I'm sorry, but many of us want WiS content, but we know that can't just make glorified bars because the vast majority of the playerbase isn't going to want it. At the end of the day, CCP need to cater to their current market, and by the sounds of things, you really don't fit into that market. Now, I want some in-station environments as much as the next supporter, but I understand that kind of content wont do anything for upwards of half of the player base. And so, I am happy with some kind of wreck diving content. So CCP should only cater to the customers it already has at the cost of attracking new ones. Gotcha. CCP are catering to customers they don't have... That's what Dust is for. Also, catering for specific market is not the same as catering for your own customers. Eve is a game traditionally associated with a particular hard core game play style and so it attracts a certain type of player. If you water that down, you attract less hard core players, and frankly the people who might want to hang out in virtual bars probably wouldn't play it still because it's too hard core for them still. So you dont want non-hardcore players occupying other parts of your hardcore game (that you would never play anyhow, because you are too hardcore), and creating more revenue?
What is it with you freaks that think you can't still be all hardcore in your spaceships while CCP expands the game to cater to a wider audience?
Fear change much?
|
Ghazu
571
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 05:08:00 -
[870] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Arduemont wrote:Soulpirate wrote:Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Stuff I'm sorry, but many of us want WiS content, but we know that can't just make glorified bars because the vast majority of the playerbase isn't going to want it. At the end of the day, CCP need to cater to their current market, and by the sounds of things, you really don't fit into that market. Now, I want some in-station environments as much as the next supporter, but I understand that kind of content wont do anything for upwards of half of the player base. And so, I am happy with some kind of wreck diving content. So CCP should only cater to the customers it already has at the cost of attracking new ones. Gotcha. CCP are catering to customers they don't have... That's what Dust is for. Also, catering for specific market is not the same as catering for your own customers. Eve is a game traditionally associated with a particular hard core game play style and so it attracts a certain type of player. If you water that down, you attract less hard core players, and frankly the people who might want to hang out in virtual bars probably wouldn't play it still because it's too hard core for them still. So you dont want non-hardcore players occupying other parts of your hardcore game (that you would never play anyhow, because you are too hardcore), and creating more revenue? What is it with you freaks that think you can't still be all hardcore in your spaceships while CCP expands the game to cater to a wider audience? Fear change much? because the freaks in second life and imvu are too hardcore for me, i fear them. i mean, i've seen some foul freaking going on in OOPE, and christ thats freaky enough in text
http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1539
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 07:00:00 -
[871] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:(...) it's just a repeat of that dogshite drone clone idea.
Says the guy who never used a JC...
Actually, drone clones (link) would be riskier to use than JC, as you could lose 3 in a row, each one of them expensively fitted/augmented.
I will adress some other issues later, but this trolling was so rtrdd that i had to comment right now. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
586
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 07:34:00 -
[872] - Quote
Hopefuly CCP will do a great announcement regarding WiS. The opinion to completely remove it from the client, it uses too much HDD space. |
Ghazu
571
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 09:14:00 -
[873] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ghazu wrote:(...) it's just a repeat of that dogshite drone clone idea. Says the guy who never used a JC... Actually, drone clones (link) would be riskier to use than JC, as you could lose 3 in a row, each one of them expensively fitted/augmented. I will adress some other issues later, but this trolling was so rtrdd that i had to comment right now. designed to work great for dudes who only want to emote in safe instanced environments, sure lay all the risk on people who actually "undocks" in avatar form.
http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1349
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 12:35:00 -
[874] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote: So you dont want non-hardcore players occupying other parts of your hardcore game (that you would never play anyhow, because you are too hardcore), and creating more revenue?
What is it with you freaks that think you can't still be all hardcore in your spaceships while CCP expands the game to cater to a wider audience?
Fear change much?
This is not about what I want. This is about what makes good business sense. I want bars, and corporate quarters, and station environments, but it makes much better business sense to put something out that caters to the market they already advertise to. And that's the station wreck diving idea.
When your argument relies on calling people freaks you know that your arguments lacking in logic. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4074
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 13:24:00 -
[875] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ghazu wrote:(...) it's just a repeat of that dogshite drone clone idea. Says the guy who never used a JC... Actually, drone clones (link) would be riskier to use than JC, as you could lose 3 in a row, each one of them expensively fitted/augmented. Snip - Please don't post personal attacks: ISD Suvetar DOH!
LOL, I hadn't seen your proposal before. Thanks for that link!
Sorry about that... thought I was being slightly original.
I still like the idea of the common term for them among capsuleers to be their "Doll". To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4074
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 13:28:00 -
[876] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ghazu wrote:(...) it's just a repeat of that dogshite drone clone idea. Says the guy who never used a JC... Actually, drone clones (link) would be riskier to use than JC, as you could lose 3 in a row, each one of them expensively fitted/augmented. Snip - Please don't post personal attacks: ISD Suvetar. designed to work great for dudes who only want to emote in safe instanced environments, sure lay all the risk on people who actually "undocks" in avatar form. What risk? What emoting?
I thought the basic premise was for a specialized exploration clone, with a remote connection instead of the normal procedure. In regular EvE if you die you end up in another clone anyway, so I'm not sure what your point would be.
So you ARE hard core if when you die you end up in a clone in another station, but your NOT hard core if you die and end up back in your main clone on your ship?
At what point did that make sense to you... To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Blacksilk
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 13:36:00 -
[877] - Quote
Six years ago I made a post on what is now the old Eve forums, regarding 'avatar' play. Some folks seemed to like the ideas but I guess many in eve could only see pilot based play and so my thread didn't get that many replies.
My original post can be seen here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=513560
If you don't want to read the whole thing, the basic idea was to have non stealth and stealth based third person missions and those missions would be aboard other ships of all kinds in eve. My linked post describes the different kinds of missions possible.
Just recently I have become aware of, and played a game called Warframe. In many ways Warframe is different to what I described in my linked post but, the mission objectives are very similar and to me shows how my ideas could work.
The Warframe beta trailer can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx5RDaGVkZE
Personally, I still think there is a lot of 'unused' areas in eve. Avatar play if it were introduced at a steady pace could a whole new dimension to eve.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1539
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 13:46:00 -
[878] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Stuff I'm sorry, but many of us want WiS content, but we know that can't just make glorified bars because the vast majority of the playerbase isn't going to want it. At the end of the day, CCP need to cater to their current market, and by the sounds of things, you really don't fit into that market. Now, I want some in-station environments as much as the next supporter, but I understand that kind of content wont do anything for upwards of half of the player base. And so, I am happy with some kind of wreck diving content.
Heh, that's funny. After 4 years and 900 euros, i guess I would be deemed a part of their market by any company, but hey, you know better.
It is obvious that EVE "core" game doesn't interests me. I've made no secret of it, and also have explained why so won't repeat it.
Anyway, as i *still* can enjoy some gameplay in EVE, I want that kind of gameplay to be expanded. Be it through WiS or FiS. EVE's lack of content suitable for people with time constraints is appalling, period. I want that changed, be it WiS, FiS or whatever..
But, you mean people like me don't fit the market? Well then, CCP is up to a nasty surprise if they insist that the only way to enjoy their product is to second-job it, only if you can find the right people (but then don't meet the wrong people) and only if you can spend several hours in a stride (sleep, familiy, jobs, RL in general, they're SO overrated compared to serious internet spaceships business).
Frankly, I don't think that CCP can save EVE from a matherial POV. They're behind the power curve, facing x+1 deadly issues with only x time/resources. And now they don't even have the man who haves a plan. They keep improvising expansions out of random ideas and the game is not going nowhere. And that's not exciting; that's the way a game 10 years old dies before turning 15. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1539
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 13:52:00 -
[879] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Ghazu wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ghazu wrote:(...) it's just a repeat of that dogshite drone clone idea. Says the guy who never used a JC... Actually, drone clones (link) would be riskier to use than JC, as you could lose 3 in a row, each one of them expensively fitted/augmented. Snip - Please don't post personal attacks: ISD Suvetar. designed to work great for dudes who only want to emote in safe instanced environments, sure lay all the risk on people who actually "undocks" in avatar form. What risk? What emoting? I thought the basic premise was for a specialized exploration clone, with a remote connection instead of the normal procedure. In regular EvE if you die you end up in another clone anyway, so I'm not sure what your point would be. So you ARE hard core if when you die you end up in a clone in another station, but your NOT hard core if you die and end up back in your main clone on your ship? At what point did that make sense to you...
Even worst, without a (insert igname mechanic), he's supposed to die if he dies out of his pod. Die as in "your character has been biomassed". I wonder why he opposes ingame mechanics that allow capsuleers to die out of their pods and not be dead. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Ghazu
572
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 14:05:00 -
[880] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Ghazu wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ghazu wrote:(...) it's just a repeat of that dogshite drone clone idea. Says the guy who never used a JC... Actually, drone clones (link) would be riskier to use than JC, as you could lose 3 in a row, each one of them expensively fitted/augmented. Snip - Please don't post personal attacks: ISD Suvetar. designed to work great for dudes who only want to emote in safe instanced environments, sure lay all the risk on people who actually "undocks" in avatar form. What risk? What emoting? I thought the basic premise was for a specialized exploration clone, with a remote connection instead of the normal procedure. In regular EvE if you die you end up in another clone anyway, so I'm not sure what your point would be. So you ARE hard core if when you die you end up in a clone in another station, but your NOT hard core if you die and end up back in your main clone on your ship? At what point did that make sense to you... why do we need so much convolution, i just want to extend podding to avatars. for illustrative purposes, when i said i want the head of Ranger1, i mean literally the head from an actual corpse, not your exploring doll. for alleged emoting, please click the forum thread link listed under the sig of the person in question.
http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1627
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 14:15:00 -
[881] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Stuff I'm sorry, but many of us want WiS content, but we know that can't just make glorified bars because the vast majority of the playerbase isn't going to want it. At the end of the day, CCP need to cater to their current market, and by the sounds of things, you really don't fit into that market. Now, I want some in-station environments as much as the next supporter, but I understand that kind of content wont do anything for upwards of half of the player base. And so, I am happy with some kind of wreck diving content. Heh, that's funny. After 4 years and 900 euros, i guess I would be deemed a part of their market by any company, but hey, you know better. It is obvious that EVE "core" game doesn't interests me. I've made no secret of it, and also have explained why so won't repeat it. Anyway, as i *still* can enjoy some gameplay in EVE, I want that kind of gameplay to be expanded. Be it through WiS or FiS. EVE's lack of content suitable for people with time constraints is appalling, period. I want that changed, be it WiS, FiS or whatever.. But, you mean people like me don't fit the market? Well then, CCP is up to a nasty surprise if they insist that the only way to enjoy their product is to second-job it, only if you can find the right people (but then don't meet the wrong people) and only if you can spend several hours in a stride (sleep, familiy, jobs, RL in general, they're SO overrated compared to serious internet spaceships business). Frankly, I don't think that CCP can save EVE from a matherial POV. They're behind the power curve, facing x+1 deadly issues with only x time/resources. And now they don't even have the man who haves a plan. They keep improvising expansions out of random ideas and the game is not going nowhere. And that's not exciting; that's the way a game 10 years old dies before turning 15.
So, EVE is dying again right?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4074
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 14:20:00 -
[882] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ghazu wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Ghazu wrote:(...) it's just a repeat of that dogshite drone clone idea. Says the guy who never used a JC... Actually, drone clones (link) would be riskier to use than JC, as you could lose 3 in a row, each one of them expensively fitted/augmented. Snip - Please don't post personal attacks: ISD Suvetar. designed to work great for dudes who only want to emote in safe instanced environments, sure lay all the risk on people who actually "undocks" in avatar form. What risk? What emoting? I thought the basic premise was for a specialized exploration clone, with a remote connection instead of the normal procedure. In regular EvE if you die you end up in another clone anyway, so I'm not sure what your point would be. So you ARE hard core if when you die you end up in a clone in another station, but your NOT hard core if you die and end up back in your main clone on your ship? At what point did that make sense to you... why do we need so much convolution, i just want to extend podding to avatars. for illustrative purposes, when i said i want the head of Ranger1, i mean literally the head from an actual corpse, not your exploring doll. for alleged emoting, please click the forum thread link listed under the sig of the person in question. Except, of course, that it would be the head of my actual corpse... or at least one of them. If you were able to take my head now, all you are actually getting is the head of my current body, nothing more.
You know this.
As far as emoting goes, who really cares? Really, use some common sense.
Most Avatar based game play has some sort of mechanic in place to simulate expression or body language. If you don't care to use it that's absolutely fine, don't use it. Just recognize that some people like their game play to be a little more visually realistic in that regard and would appreciate the option. From a game developers standpoint it would be fairly stupid NOT to provide that capability, especially when we have some of the most realistic looking Avatars in the gaming industry. To not capitalize on one of the strongest assets their Avatar system has would be a very rookie mistake.
I would hope you would be able to look at it from a professional point of view and realize this. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4074
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 14:26:00 -
[883] - Quote
In fact, instead of trying to come up with silly reasons to not include emotes of some sort in this type of game play, I'd instead focus on making sure that any emotes created will have a strong EvE flavor... something unique to this game that could perhaps provide yet another way to evoke more tears and humiiation from those around you. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ghazu
572
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 15:41:00 -
[884] - Quote
as far as i am concerned, emoting and social crap can be offered as supplement to actual gameplay. the problem is that some people think that it should be a priority, and the primary objective of wis, because they literally don't enjoy eve as a game. as if if i went on WOW forums crying Y NO SANDBOX? http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
484
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 16:59:00 -
[885] - Quote
Fear is just going to hobble the game. If we can't emote because someone is terrified of socials, and we can't run or jump because someone's afraid that the game will look undignified, then our avatars will only ever resemble catwalking robots with identical gaits and mannerisms, and all the time and money spent perfecting the technology will be wasted. And what is the appeal of a whole new style of gameplay if it doesn't introduce new gameplay? That's not to say that there shouldn't be PVP--it's EVE, of course there should be--but given that avatars are individual, personal, and identifiable as human, the obvious thing is to want to take full advantage of that. After all, you can already hop in an anonymous, expressionless ship or drop suit and blow up other clones whenever you want to. Emoting is communication between characters; communication between characters is gameplay, and doubly so in a Machiavellian sandbox where a good diplomat is worth more than a fleet of titans.
With near-photorealistic avatars, emotes can (and should) be subtle, individual and realistic, and perhaps not always triggered explicitly by the player. With runs and jumps, CCP already has a mechanic for capacitor, and humans do not have to be cap stable. Also, it's a PVP game: If someone's leaping around like an idiot then shoot them in the head. It's a worthwhile tradeoff to allow my immortal demigod to clear an obstacle in a ruin, or in a chase, instead of having to go around foot-tall obstacles like a Neverwinter Nights character.
Since some people have wondered about capacity limits in clubs: that can be done without instances: CCP at least originally planned for EVE avatars to collide with each other realistically, and I believe CCP is sticking with that plan, so in any space there would be a built-in limit to the number of avatars that could occupy it, and a lower limit to the number of avatars who could occupy it comfortably. Bouncers could keep head counts and enforce capacity requirements (and, possibly, be bribed to overlook them, although that could be abused). Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
Vote for CSM 8! |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
284
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 18:38:00 -
[886] - Quote
Really, I just want more immersion. The ships are pretty when you zoom in, but most of the time it just feels like looking at brackets, bars, and a scroll of numbers. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1542
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 19:47:00 -
[887] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Stuff I'm sorry, but many of us want WiS content, but we know that can't just make glorified bars because the vast majority of the playerbase isn't going to want it. At the end of the day, CCP need to cater to their current market, and by the sounds of things, you really don't fit into that market. Now, I want some in-station environments as much as the next supporter, but I understand that kind of content wont do anything for upwards of half of the player base. And so, I am happy with some kind of wreck diving content. Heh, that's funny. After 4 years and 900 euros, i guess I would be deemed a part of their market by any company, but hey, you know better. It is obvious that EVE "core" game doesn't interests me. I've made no secret of it, and also have explained why so won't repeat it. Anyway, as i *still* can enjoy some gameplay in EVE, I want that kind of gameplay to be expanded. Be it through WiS or FiS. EVE's lack of content suitable for people with time constraints is appalling, period. I want that changed, be it WiS, FiS or whatever.. But, you mean people like me don't fit the market? Well then, CCP is up to a nasty surprise if they insist that the only way to enjoy their product is to second-job it, only if you can find the right people (but then don't meet the wrong people) and only if you can spend several hours in a stride (sleep, familiy, jobs, RL in general, they're SO overrated compared to serious internet spaceships business). Frankly, I don't think that CCP can save EVE from a matherial POV. They're behind the power curve, facing x+1 deadly issues with only x time/resources. And now they don't even have the man who haves a plan. They keep improvising expansions out of random ideas and the game is not going nowhere. And that's not exciting; that's the way a game 10 years old dies before turning 15. So, EVE is dying again right?
Believe what you want, but EVE is just bouncing up from the post-incarna fall, and will not reach that height never again. They don't have a plan, don't even have a EP who haves a plan. That's no news, as CCP Unifex was hired for damage control and he's done a good job, but I'll eat my hat if you or anyone can tell me where is EVE going in 2 years. And things that don't go somewhere end up nowhere. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1543
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 19:56:00 -
[888] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Fear is just going to hobble the game. If we can't emote because someone is terrified of socials, and we can't run or jump because someone's afraid that the game will look undignified, then our avatars will only ever resemble catwalking robots with identical gaits and mannerisms, and all the time and money spent perfecting the technology will be wasted. And what is the appeal of a whole new style of gameplay if it doesn't introduce new gameplay? That's not to say that there shouldn't be PVP--it's EVE, of course there should be--but given that avatars are individual, personal, and identifiable as human, the obvious thing is to want to take full advantage of that. After all, you can already hop in an anonymous, expressionless ship or drop suit and blow up other clones whenever you want to. Emoting is communication between characters; communication between characters is gameplay, and doubly so in a Machiavellian sandbox where a good diplomat is worth more than a fleet of titans.
With near-photorealistic avatars, emotes can (and should) be subtle, individual and realistic, and perhaps not always triggered explicitly by the player. With runs and jumps, CCP already has a mechanic for capacitor, and humans do not have to be cap stable. Also, it's a PVP game: If someone's leaping around like an idiot then shoot them in the head. It's a worthwhile tradeoff to allow my immortal demigod to clear an obstacle in a ruin, or in a chase, instead of having to go around foot-tall obstacles like a Neverwinter Nights character.
Since some people have wondered about capacity limits in clubs: that can be done without instances: CCP at least originally planned for EVE avatars to collide with each other realistically, and I believe CCP is sticking with that plan, so in any space there would be a built-in limit to the number of avatars that could occupy it, and a lower limit to the number of avatars who could occupy it comfortably. Bouncers could keep head counts and enforce capacity requirements (and, possibly, be bribed to overlook them, although that could be abused).
That's another matter on which I have some ideas that have never been implemented in any game. If I had to make a game with avatars, i would make them semi-independent, so they would look at, wave at, close up to, and do other things based on THEIR preferences and not under the player's WASD/emote command.
But then i completely hate The Sims and emotes so it's not to wonder that I feel awfuly stupid that my avatar has to play back an animation each time I friggin' press a key. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1633
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 20:07:00 -
[889] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
So, EVE is dying again right?
Believe what you want, but EVE is just bouncing up from the post-incarna fall, and will not reach that height never again. They don't have a plan, don't even have a EP who haves a plan. That's no news, as CCP Unifex was hired for damage control and he's done a good job, but I'll eat my hat if you or anyone can tell me where is EVE going in 2 years. And things that don't go somewhere end up nowhere.
Please show your work. I would like to see the published statistics you referenced to make your claim regarding EVE's subscriber count not reaching pre-Incarna levels again.
Oh wait, I forgot you're just being a hysterical Chicken Little because you aren't getting what you want, on your time table...
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1543
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 07:03:00 -
[890] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
So, EVE is dying again right?
Believe what you want, but EVE is just bouncing up from the post-incarna fall, and will not reach that height never again. They don't have a plan, don't even have a EP who haves a plan. That's no news, as CCP Unifex was hired for damage control and he's done a good job, but I'll eat my hat if you or anyone can tell me where is EVE going in 2 years. And things that don't go somewhere end up nowhere. Please show your work. I would like to see the published statistics you referenced to make your claim regarding EVE's subscriber count not reaching pre-Incarna levels again. Oh wait, I forgot you're just being a hysterical Chicken Little because you aren't getting what you want, on your time table...
Time will tell, don't you think? I am giving you all the headstart you want. If i am wrong and EVE survives its trials, you will be happy to play the game, I will be happy to play the game, CCP devs will be happy to keep their jobs, and everybody will win.
That's the irony. I would rather like to be wrong and later laugh at my hysterical doomsaying. But in the grand scheme of things, being wrong about EVE's survival would hurt me way more than being wrong about its demise. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
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Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1351
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 10:13:00 -
[891] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Heh, that's funny. After 4 years and 900 euros, i guess I would be deemed a part of their market by any company, but hey, you know better.
Why do people insist on tell me in that "my" point of view is flawed, when all I am doing is repeating CCPs point of view? It's not me knowing better, it's the marketing, game design departments and managers at a very successful games company that know better. I am just explaining their reasons. And again, I want pseudo-friendly in-station environments, but at least I can understand that I am not the norm. People want a little action. Thinking that because you want it, that it will be the saving grace of the game is just daft. It's anecdotal for a start, and CCP have come to a different conclusion and they have all the objective empirical data. From a scientific point of view, you don't have a foot to stand on.
Once the wreck diving stuff is done, and they can put people into the same environment without a hitch (playing to the wants of a larger proportion of their market), then they can make normal in-station environments with much less dev time and therefore fewer complaints and more happy customers.
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Frankly, I don't think that CCP can save EVE from a matherial POV. They're behind the power curve, facing x+1 deadly issues with only x time/resources. And now they don't even have the man who haves a plan. They keep improvising expansions out of random ideas and the game is not going nowhere. And that's not exciting; that's the way a game 10 years old dies before turning 15.
Obligatory Eve is dying comment. Most games don't make it to 10 years old, nevermind 15. You can find data to emphatically show that WoW has been dying since a year or so ago. That's not the case with Eve. Sub numbers, and active players do not show a clear downward trend. Subs show the opposite. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ghazu
573
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 10:24:00 -
[892] - Quote
wow why don't you just can it, Nostradamus. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
306
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 10:42:00 -
[893] - Quote
Station atrium, bar, poker/game room, and corp meeting room. Those 4 rooms are literally all that need to be implemented for WiS to not have been a total waste of time. Those features would be amazing for socialization, and I would much rather station trade/chat with corp-mates in that kind of environment... |
Ghazu
573
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 12:15:00 -
[894] - Quote
mechtech wrote:Station atrium, bar, poker/game room, and corp meeting room. Those 4 rooms are literally all that need to be implemented for WiS to not have been a total waste of time. Those features would be amazing for socialization, and I would much rather station trade/chat with corp-mates in that kind of environment... heh, that totally don't sound worthless at all. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1543
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 13:15:00 -
[895] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Heh, that's funny. After 4 years and 900 euros, i guess I would be deemed a part of their market by any company, but hey, you know better.
Why do people insist on tell me in that "my" point of view is flawed, when all I am doing is repeating CCPs point of view? It's not me knowing better, it's the marketing, game design departments and managers at a very successful games company that know better. I am just explaining their reasons. And again, I want pseudo-friendly in-station environments, but at least I can understand that I am not the norm. People want a little action. Thinking that because you want it, that it will be the saving grace of the game is just daft. It's anecdotal for a start, and CCP have come to a different conclusion and they have all the objective empirical data. From a scientific point of view, you don't have a foot to stand on.
Neither does CCP. They're just starting to count humans (or should be starting), but so far it turns that, with their current metrics, most people would be playing the game wrong. The people who play it right claim that the metrics are schewed because they do heaps of playing the game wrong. This is one funny argument, sounds totally like "i like driving my car, but all my friends take the bus and that's why buses are crowded despite they're irrelevant".
The single largest minorities in EVE are hiseccers, soloers and PvErs. Some claim that people takes those buses because they love driiving cars, and CCP is just about to count how many actual humans partake in those acitvities vs how many engage in the core game.
Arduemont wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Frankly, I don't think that CCP can save EVE from a matherial POV. They're behind the power curve, facing x+1 deadly issues with only x time/resources. And now they don't even have the man who haves a plan. They keep improvising expansions out of random ideas and the game is not going nowhere. And that's not exciting; that's the way a game 10 years old dies before turning 15. Obligatory Eve is dying comment. Most games don't make it to 10 years old, nevermind 15. You can find data to emphatically show that WoW has been dying since a year or so ago. That's not the case with Eve. Sub numbers, and active players do not show a clear downward trend. Subs show the opposite.
Do you know what's the Red Queen's race? EVE is not lagging behind, but it's running as fast as it can and its face begins to look congested.
What would you think if a random MMO started offering second accounts to newly subscribed players? "Thanks for joining our game, may we interest you with this rebate on the purchase of a second account?" The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1636
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 13:41:00 -
[896] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
So, EVE is dying again right?
Believe what you want, but EVE is just bouncing up from the post-incarna fall, and will not reach that height never again. They don't have a plan, don't even have a EP who haves a plan. That's no news, as CCP Unifex was hired for damage control and he's done a good job, but I'll eat my hat if you or anyone can tell me where is EVE going in 2 years. And things that don't go somewhere end up nowhere. Please show your work. I would like to see the published statistics you referenced to make your claim regarding EVE's subscriber count not reaching pre-Incarna levels again. Oh wait, I forgot you're just being a hysterical Chicken Little because you aren't getting what you want, on your time table... Time will tell, don't you think? I am giving you all the headstart you want. If i am wrong and EVE survives its trials, you will be happy to play the game, I will be happy to play the game, CCP devs will be happy to keep their jobs, and everybody will win. That's the irony. I would rather like to be wrong and later laugh at my "hysterical" doomsaying. But in the grand scheme of things, being wrong about EVE's survival would hurt me way more than being wrong about its demise.
So, you have no facts or evidence whatsoever and are making completely baseless assertions. Check.
I'm sure glad CCP is running things and not you.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1351
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 14:02:00 -
[897] - Quote
I'm with Doc here. You have no basis for any of your claims. You can run off gut feelings all you like, but it doesn't make them right. This isn't a religion. If you want to make claims, you need facts. We're not going to take your on "faith". Faith is worthless in any serious discussion. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Hiram Alexander
Dry Atomic Fusion Gatekeepers Universe
345
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:52:00 -
[898] - Quote
So, with CCP essentially saying 'come to fanfest' if you want to find out about the future of 'avatar gameplay', I'm curious... has anything actually been mentioned? I haven't seen anything... ;) |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1774
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:54:00 -
[899] - Quote
Wait for the "Prototyping the future" presentation. Its almost the last one. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1544
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 22:38:00 -
[900] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I'm with Doc here. You have no basis for any of your claims. You can run off gut feelings all you like, but it doesn't make them right. This isn't a religion. If you want to make claims, you need facts. We're not going to take your on "faith". Faith is worthless in any serious discussion.
I don't make claims. I express my opinion. You can agree or disagree and I would like that you were right and i was wrong -if just to protect my investement in this game.
But as far as having faith in CCP is involved, they did a fine job to kill every trace of it since Incarna.
BTW, fi you're up for serious discussion, what are you doing discussing about a videogame? The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
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Ghazu
573
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 04:48:00 -
[901] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Wait for the "Prototyping the future" presentation. Its almost the last one. This this happen yet? Saw anything of note? http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1783
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 05:02:00 -
[902] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Wait for the "Prototyping the future" presentation. Its almost the last one. This this happen yet? Saw anything of note? Its almost the last one on Saturday. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1544
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 07:21:00 -
[903] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Ghazu wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Wait for the "Prototyping the future" presentation. Its almost the last one. This this happen yet? Saw anything of note? Its almost the last one on Saturday.
Will wait for comments on it, so far after reading what's been published about the Future of EVE keynote all i got is that CCP Seagull said something about building stargates to go somewhere. Which sounds like "more WH space without WH space".
Originality it's not their strong point... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
588
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 07:32:00 -
[904] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Ghazu wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Wait for the "Prototyping the future" presentation. Its almost the last one. This this happen yet? Saw anything of note? Its almost the last one on Saturday. Will wait for comments on it, so far after reading what's been published about the Future of EVE keynote all i got is that CCP Seagull said something about building stargates to go somewhere. Which sounds like "more WH space without WH space". Originality it's not their strong point...
Fortunately, not everyone shares your pessimism and hopelessness.
The last two years were the best in EvE Online history. The three great expansions delivered and Odyssey looks very impresive. EvE Online is in great shape. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
463
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 07:34:00 -
[905] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Wait for the "Prototyping the future" presentation. Its almost the last one. This this happen yet? Saw anything of note? Seagull was asked about plans for "avatar based gameplay" during the interviews leading up to Fanfest and said that they where looking for ways to make it useful but that they currently didn't have any plans for it.
So it remains status quo, no resources will be used until they find some use for it that is worth investing in.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
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Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1365
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 08:12:00 -
[906] - Quote
The longer I sit and think about it, the more and more I see where they're coming from. Very few people want avatar-based gameplay more than I do. I still remember reading a TenTonHammer article that came out a while before Incarna and how excited I was that Eve was expanding beyond spaceships and blahblahblah. Well....2 years later and we all know how that whole thing went lol.
In any case, these days, the more time I spend with the game, the more I think about the possibilities of avatar-based gameplay, and the more I learn about game development (as a whole for my own benefit), the happier I am CCP decided to step back and put it on hold. Like I said, it's still something I absolutely want, but I get why they're doing what they're doing at the moment and that makes me happy because if and when avatar gameplay does come back for round 2, it'll come correct this time. Respect is earned, not given. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1544
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 12:42:00 -
[907] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:The longer I sit and think about it, the more and more I see where they're coming from. Very few people want avatar-based gameplay more than I do. I still remember reading a TenTonHammer article that came out a while before Incarna and how excited I was that Eve was expanding beyond spaceships and blahblahblah. Well....2 years later and we all know how that whole thing went lol.
In any case, these days, the more time I spend with the game, the more I think about the possibilities of avatar-based gameplay, and the more I learn about game development (as a whole for my own benefit), the happier I am CCP decided to step back and put it on hold. Like I said, it's still something I absolutely want, but I get why they're doing what they're doing at the moment and that makes me happy because if and when avatar gameplay does come back for round 2, it'll come correct this time.
Well, i also get the "why". There is no way they can add avatar gameplay without a serious increase in their resources -and that's unlikely to happen.
Let's say that you've been aware of EVE for the last 10 years, but never interested you enough to give a try. Or let's say that you gave a try and didn't like what you saw.
If you're one of the above, what does EVE offer to you now/plans to offer to you in the future?
More of the same.
Rather than expand the potential playerbase, CCP is focusing on the returning player/already subscribed player. And hey, it works! Here i am, 10 euros a month was enough to convince me to come back after Guild Wars 2 and Planetside 2! Welcome back, Indahmawar Fazmarai!
That's it, unitl I grow tired of doing the same sh*t and go play something else. And of course, i am paying 33% less developer time than when I still had hope in this game and company. Well, that was wrong: i'm paying 67% less dev time, actually, as i used to have two accounts.
Dunno. I'm in a depressive mood these days due to RL issues, but also i can't see how my current feelings about EVE are but a difference in degree and not in quality over the usual. I enjoy the little i have now and don't count on CCP outperforming themselves and bringing anything worth it to EVE. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Flamespar
Woof Club
556
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 12:54:00 -
[908] - Quote
So whats this exclusive 10 year veteran station CCP mentioned in the keynote? I wonder if it'll include in station areas.
Spose it makes sense to reward vets with an exclusive area. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1081
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 14:29:00 -
[909] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:If you're one of the above, what does EVE offer to you now/plans to offer to you in the future?
More of the same.
Rather than expand the potential playerbase, CCP is focusing on the returning player/already subscribed player. And hey, it works! Here i am, 10 euros a month was enough to convince me to come back after Guild Wars 2 and Planetside 2! Welcome back, Indahmawar Fazmarai!
That's it, unitl I grow tired of doing the same sh*t and go play something else. And of course, i am paying 33% less developer time than when I still had hope in this game and company. Well, that was wrong: i'm paying 67% less dev time, actually, as i used to have two accounts.
Dunno. I'm in a depressive mood these days due to RL issues, but also i can't see how my current feelings about EVE are but a difference in degree and not in quality over the usual. I enjoy the little i have now and don't count on CCP outperforming themselves and bringing anything worth it to EVE.
Pretty much this. More of the same. Sure it doesn't cause cataclysmic events like Incarna/NEX store/Greed letter perfect storm did, but it also doesn't make the game grow in any serious way. And if you're not growing, you're stagnating. How many more years of these minor changes until people just get bored? I was watching the keynote video last night, and how long will the novelty of the "new and amazing" stuff in Odyssey last? A week? Two? I don't know about you, but the new jumpgate effect was nice the first time, OK the second time, and "Yeah, yeah, move on already" the third time. Three jumps in a row, and I was over it. And I know I'm not the only one. Development time well spent?
Avatar-based gameplay, and I mean MEANINGFUL avatar-based gameplay, had the potential to snap EVE out of its rut and push it up into a whole new bracket. All those people that would play it but just can't get past the whole "your ship that changes all the time and WILL blow up is your avatar" thing, they'll be playing something else, when they could be playing EVE. And it's not like CCP has to invent something new, there's no need to re-invent the wheel. There's tons of things that they could do for avatar gameplay. Heck, just rip off other MMOs. Do what Pirates of the Burning Sea did with avatar combat, even that is better than nothing and it'll add a whole new dimension to game's combat.
But they seem content to just hold on to players they have and keep releasing these "more of the same" patches and...what...? Wait for something better to come along and finally kill it? EVE did enjoy a decade of virtually zero competition. I mean, how many space MMOs came out since 2003? None? Games like Black Prophecy aren't MMOs by even the furthest stretch of the imagination. But now you have MMO-like titles with a persistent world on the way, like Star Citizen. Only a matter of time before a full-fledged MMO comes out. Worse still, imagine if Blizzard's next project is based on Starcraft (sci-fi) universe? Especially if it has space and aerial combat? What if it's a sandbox? What will happen to EVE then? Just seems to me they're going through the motions, even avatar gameplay is the future of this game. |
Eddie Meth
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 14:37:00 -
[910] - Quote
Question: Is there any chance on losing bilions in poker? According to your devblog you have gambling minigames planned, they are going to be original ones/ some New Eden variants / totally classic stuff like Texas Hold'em? |
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Utremi Fasolasi
The Jagged Edge Rebel Alliance of New Eden
201
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 15:14:00 -
[911] - Quote
Eddie Meth wrote:Question: Is there any chance on losing bilions in poker? According to your devblog you have gambling minigames planned, they are going to be original ones/ some New Eden variants / totally classic stuff like Texas Hold'em?
There's no Space Texas in New Eden, unless you count the Talocan settlements in Okkelen constellation.
Talocan Hold'em? |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1544
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:36:00 -
[912] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:If you're one of the above, what does EVE offer to you now/plans to offer to you in the future?
More of the same.
Rather than expand the potential playerbase, CCP is focusing on the returning player/already subscribed player. And hey, it works! Here i am, 10 euros a month was enough to convince me to come back after Guild Wars 2 and Planetside 2! Welcome back, Indahmawar Fazmarai!
That's it, unitl I grow tired of doing the same sh*t and go play something else. And of course, i am paying 33% less developer time than when I still had hope in this game and company. Well, that was wrong: i'm paying 67% less dev time, actually, as i used to have two accounts.
Dunno. I'm in a depressive mood these days due to RL issues, but also i can't see how my current feelings about EVE are but a difference in degree and not in quality over the usual. I enjoy the little i have now and don't count on CCP outperforming themselves and bringing anything worth it to EVE. Pretty much this. More of the same. Sure it doesn't cause cataclysmic events like Incarna/NEX store/Greed letter perfect storm did, but it also doesn't make the game grow in any serious way. And if you're not growing, you're stagnating. How many more years of these minor changes until people just get bored? I was watching the keynote video last night, and how long will the novelty of the "new and amazing" stuff in Odyssey last? A week? Two? I don't know about you, but the new jumpgate effect was nice the first time, OK the second time, and "Yeah, yeah, move on already" the third time. Three jumps in a row, and I was over it. And I know I'm not the only one. Development time well spent? Avatar-based gameplay, and I mean MEANINGFUL avatar-based gameplay, had the potential to snap EVE out of its rut and push it up into a whole new bracket. All those people that would play it but just can't get past the whole "your ship that changes all the time and WILL blow up is your avatar" thing, they'll be playing something else, when they could be playing EVE. And it's not like CCP has to invent something new, there's no need to re-invent the wheel. There's tons of things that they could do for avatar gameplay. Heck, just rip off other MMOs. Do what Pirates of the Burning Sea did with avatar combat, even that is better than nothing and it'll add a whole new dimension to game's combat. But they seem content to just hold on to players they have and keep releasing these "more of the same" patches and...what...? Wait for something better to come along and finally kill it? EVE did enjoy a decade of virtually zero competition. I mean, how many space MMOs came out since 2003? None? Games like Black Prophecy aren't MMOs by even the furthest stretch of the imagination. But now you have MMO-like titles with a persistent world on the way, like Star Citizen. Only a matter of time before a full-fledged MMO comes out. Worse still, imagine if Blizzard's next project is based on Starcraft (sci-fi) universe? Especially if it has space and aerial combat? What if it's a sandbox? What will happen to EVE then? Just seems to me they're going through the motions, even avatar gameplay is the future of this game.
They're preaching to the choir, to speak so, and are proud to see how many old faces are back around. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Sointu Luonnotar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 19:03:00 -
[913] - Quote
"The door will remain closed."
Yeah thanks a lot for letting me know. |
Hiram Alexander
Dry Atomic Fusion Gatekeepers Universe
345
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 19:09:00 -
[914] - Quote
Nice move CCP, "Come to Fanfest, and find out our plans for WiS..."
Our plan... "Zip, nada, diddeley squat...! but hey, come to Fanfest next year, and maybe we can talk about maybe doing something..."
Nice... /sarcasm
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
590
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 19:11:00 -
[915] - Quote
The door will eventually open :)
CCP is doing the right thing at this time. FOCUS!!!
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Sointu Luonnotar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 19:13:00 -
[916] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:The door will eventually open :)
CCP is doing the right thing at this time. FOCUS!!!
Yeah but when is this eventually? 2018? |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
728
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 19:34:00 -
[917] - Quote
hahaha another year down
suck on that
keeping paying for and posting about a game that doesn't actually exist
so dumb |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1647
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 19:37:00 -
[918] - Quote
No surprised at all by the announcement there are no plans to work on Avatar stuff for at least another year.
By this time next year, more people will be a running a capable OS and video hardware so CCP will be more capable of doing something meaningful. DUST will either pan-out or not by then, which will be a big factor in regard to the resources CCP will have at its disposal.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
38
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 19:38:00 -
[919] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:hahaha another year down
suck on that
keeping paying for and posting about a game that doesn't actually exist
so dumb Well... I am waiting for TESO too, so we'll see what comes first. If they do come. But if I am lucky and get both of themin year or few, so much the better. |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1367
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 19:43:00 -
[920] - Quote
Sointu Luonnotar wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The door will eventually open :)
CCP is doing the right thing at this time. FOCUS!!!
Yeah but when is this eventually? 2018?
Hey, it could be for all we know, but to echo what Vaju said, they're doing the right thing by honing their focus. Focus is a dangerous thing to lack in this industry. It's absence has been the cause of many a downfall not just for games, but for entire studios.
Trust me, I know it sucks. It really does. There's been plenty of broken promises and disappointment regarding this feature and being told "not right now" isn't exactly something we want to hear. But, again I say, with this new direction they're taking of concentrating on laser-like focus, I feel confident that if and when avatar-based gameplay does show up, it will have been worth the wait. Respect is earned, not given. |
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
1545
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 20:48:00 -
[921] - Quote
So, the "prototyping the future" keynote wasn't twitched after all, and all WiS content was: nothing.
Collectors edition looks cool btw, but I would rather skip the boardgame and save 30 euros. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Michael Stabb
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 20:51:00 -
[922] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:So, the "prototyping the future" keynote wasn't twitched after all, and all WiS content was: nothing.
Collectors edition looks cool btw, but I would rather skip the boardgame and save 30 euros.
I'd rather skip everything except the mystery code. |
Acac Sunflyier
FLA5HY RED
570
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 20:54:00 -
[923] - Quote
I was sorely disappointed that this got no mention what so ever CCP don't make us wait another decade for a drone overhaul; DRONE OVERHAUL NOW! |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
471
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 20:56:00 -
[924] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:So, the "prototyping the future" keynote wasn't twitched after all, and all WiS content was: nothing.
As most reasonable people have known for years now.
There is no plans for avatar based game play what so ever. There wasn't one from the start and the only little glimpse was the one off prototype that was decided to be to expensive in resources.
But of course, things might change in the next 10 years.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1547
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 22:27:00 -
[925] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote:I was sorely disappointed that this got no mention what so ever
They're not working on it. And we certainly should had gone and talk to CCP Bayesian in person... preferably in a closed room.. with lights off... and whisperign so nobody notices we were talking the unspeakable.
I can say with no irony, that EVE may sooner get live action avatar content (aka "EVE TV film"), than any actual avatar content in game.
Meanwhile, in another land, another team, is just doing this (brochure of RSI Aurora 2943 model) The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
None ofthe Above
534
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 22:48:00 -
[926] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:So, the "prototyping the future" keynote wasn't twitched after all, and all WiS content was: nothing.
Collectors edition looks cool btw, but I would rather skip the boardgame and save 30 euros.
Actually I heard "we'll talk about it next year"
Not really surprising given the state of WOD as I hear. Looking like a Christmas 2014 release maybe.
I would like to see some continued work on Avatar gameplay as it exists now, lest it fall into the state of "no one knows the code" but I think that's the best that can be hoped for until WOD matures, giving CCP a carbon-based platform that is focused on this kind of thing.
Then one hopes the improvements in carbon could be ported back to EVE or a companion game and pilots would be able to open that door.
I hope you voted, you glorious but often apathetic bastards! STV working as intended; Pre-elections and Get out the Vote, room for improvement. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1351
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 10:07:00 -
[927] - Quote
I was pretty disappointed that they skipped the "Prototyping the Future" presentation on the feed. That better get uploaded onto the CCP Games youtube account eventually. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1548
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 10:11:00 -
[928] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I was pretty disappointed that they skipped the "Prototyping the Future" presentation on the feed. That better get uploaded onto the CCP Games youtube account eventually.
I opened a thread requesting wether it was recorded at all... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Lost True
Paradise project
2122
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 15:05:00 -
[929] - Quote
It's at the end of the large 16h video, if you want the prototyping video. in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much? [-á-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦] -£-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦ -¦-+-Ç-+-+-Ç-¦-å-+-Å Transtellar |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1352
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 15:53:00 -
[930] - Quote
Lost True wrote:It's at the end of the large 16h video, if you want the prototyping video.
I didn't pay for the HD live feed. I just watched the free one. At least we know it got recorded though. So hopefully CCP will upload it at some point. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1556
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 20:03:00 -
[931] - Quote
Lost True wrote:It's at the end of the large 16h video, if you want the prototyping video.
Could you post the timestamp? Because apparently, everything between the user experience keynote and the end it's the party. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1576
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 07:03:00 -
[932] - Quote
Well, apparently the presentation on "Prototyping the future" had nothing to do with the WiS prototype, rather was a technical one on gameplay prototyping & using mining as an instance.
To be frank, I am kind of emotionally exhausted ont his issue. I feel like litherally banging my head on a door. And all in all it doesn't matters much. My only gripe is how avatars have been completely abandoned and not even the simpler things are being done. Probably that's better in the long run, so we lose all hope.
The game is what it is and it never will be anything else. Some deem this good as they like what the game is, others deem it bad as they aren't satisfied with what the game is, but all in all, CCP decided that DUST and not WiS was the way to expand EVE, and also that WoD and not WiS was the way to reach to new player demographics.
I'm even tempted to agree with them and seriously consider WoD as something worth to look upon as a substitute for EVE.
No matter the potential for EVE (the whole "sci fi simulation" stuff), it's an old game and in the last years it's gone past the point where it could reinvent itself and survive. They're better betting on more of the same than try and burden the core game with new stuff which could misfire as miserably as Incarna... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Lost True
Paradise project
2137
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 07:14:00 -
[933] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, apparently the presentation on "Prototyping the future" had nothing to do with the WiS prototype, rather was a technical one on gameplay prototyping & using mining as an instance.
To be frank, I am kind of emotionally exhausted ont his issue. I feel like litherally banging my head on a door. And all in all it doesn't matters much. My only gripe is how avatars have been completely abandoned and not even the simpler things are being done. Probably that's better in the long run, so we lose all hope.
The game is what it is and it never will be anything else. Some deem this good as they like what the game is, others deem it bad as they aren't satisfied with what the game is, but all in all, CCP decided that DUST and not WiS was the way to expand EVE, and also that WoD and not WiS was the way to reach to new player demographics.
I'm even tempted to agree with them and seriously consider WoD as something worth to look upon as a substitute for EVE.
No matter the potential for EVE (the whole "sci fi simulation" stuff), it's an old game and in the last years it's gone past the point where it could reinvent itself and survive. They're better betting on more of the same than try and burden the core game with new stuff which could misfire as miserably as Incarna... Eve have more important things than WiS to work at... Such as Dust and WoD... in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much? [-á-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦] -£-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦ -¦-+-Ç-+-+-Ç-¦-å-+-Å Transtellar |
Harry Forever
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 08:45:00 -
[934] - Quote
they should just add social areas like bars and meeting rooms in stations, and a lookout to see the ships in space realtime, walking around and interacting with agents direclty, could be done much easier then adding dead space like exploration and action, I'm new but did not understand why everybody would be screaming about that, often you should not listen to the mob in the web too much and just do what you think is right, the people in the web are like super sensitive babys, listening to the core players alone is also not helpful as the core often does not want to change, however adaptation is the only way to success over a long period
i would say 70% spaceship and 30% avatar gameplay would be right, maybe 80/20 but the avatar gameplay should concentrate on the social part, to plan strategic battles and stuff, signing contracts, building aliances and player interaction |
Nathanien Indoril
Creation and Extraction
28
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 10:01:00 -
[935] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:keeping paying for and posting about a game that doesn't actually exist Yeah, hit their wallet, then they will listen.
But on the serious side... the current wis needs a little bit attention, just a little - nothing serious. 'cause the current state is really embarrassing. I mean... is CCP happy with the current state of wis? It looks just silly.
First: New Players shouldn't start in the captains quarters (if it is still so). It's useless and confusing. New shiny hangars coming ... so... let them start there. Next: Kick the Nex out of the game. Really. Aurum belongs to Dust not to Eve. Stop trying to 'scam' extra money via Aurum. What to do with the current clothing? Blueprints, reimbursement, whatever... don't care... not my job. The Nex - Store needs to go. No matter how.
Aaaand... we're done.
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
156
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 10:12:00 -
[936] - Quote
Nathanien Indoril wrote: Next: Kick the Nex out of the game. Really. Aurum belongs to Dust not to Eve. Stop trying to 'scam' extra money via Aurum. What to do with the current clothing? Blueprints, reimbursement, whatever... don't care... not my job. The Nex - Store needs to go. No matter how.
If I want to buy 1000 dollar virtual jeans then that is my business, not yours. Not that I would pay more than maybe an euro or half an euro for any virtual item, but still, what do you care what I would spend my money on? |
|
CCP Bayesian
664
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 10:48:00 -
[937] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, apparently the presentation on "Prototyping the future" had nothing to do with the WiS prototype, rather was a technical one on gameplay prototyping & using mining as an instance.
I would have shown the avatar prototype if I had been allowed to and had a grovelling apology slide. It should have made it onto the stream but I have no idea why it didn't or when it might be coming online. There are a whole bunch of other talks that haven't made it online yet so I'm presuming it was more time intensive than thought to do. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
568
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 11:11:00 -
[938] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, apparently the presentation on "Prototyping the future" had nothing to do with the WiS prototype, rather was a technical one on gameplay prototyping & using mining as an instance. I would have shown the avatar prototype if I had been allowed to and had a grovelling apology slide. It should have made it onto the stream but I have no idea why it didn't or when it might be coming online. There are a whole bunch of other talks that haven't made it online yet so I'm presuming it was more time intensive than thought to do.
I'm sorta at a loss of what to do next. You mentioned that we we need to pester the executive produce and Hilmar at fanfest. And have discussions like this. What else can we do to show CCP that there is significant support for WiS, that people want to be able to explore derelicts.
Also I think it's pretty poor that we still don't have tattoos even tho Torfi said at the last fanfest that they would be coming in inferno. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
CCP Bayesian
664
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 11:22:00 -
[939] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: I'm sorta at a loss of what to do next. You mentioned that we we need to pester the executive produce and Hilmar at fanfest. And have discussions like this. What else can we do to show CCP that there is significant support for WiS, that people want to be able to explore derelicts.
Also I think it's pretty poor that we still don't have tattoos even tho Torfi said at the last fanfest that they would be coming in inferno.
The cheer at the CCP Presents Keynote certainly got his attention: http://twitter.com/HilmarVeigar/status/328249408355442690
EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1089
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 12:55:00 -
[940] - Quote
I really think Kickstarter or something similar for WiS is a good idea. Something to show that EVE players DO care about WiS and will put their money where their mouths are. There's a very vocal minority claiming nobody wants it, but I have a feeling there's at least as many silent people who wouldn't mind at all.
There's another thing we could do, though I don't think it's in any way constructive. Incarna development was scrapped because of a temper tantrum and shooting of statues. Perhaps another temper tantrum and shooting of statues is needed to re-start the development? Trouble is, sane, sensible players who like the game and only want it to get better are not the type to behave that way. |
|
Lost True
Paradise project
2147
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 13:09:00 -
[941] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:I really think Kickstarter or something similar for WiS is a good idea. Something to show that EVE players DO care about WiS and will put their money where their mouths are. There's a very vocal minority claiming nobody wants it, but I have a feeling there's at least as many silent people who wouldn't mind at all. I've thought about this too.
I like this idea, let us invest in WiS developent. And to recieve something good when i'll be done. in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much? [-á-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦] -£-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦ -¦-+-Ç-+-+-Ç-¦-å-+-Å Transtellar |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1577
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 13:16:00 -
[942] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Flamespar wrote: I'm sorta at a loss of what to do next. You mentioned that we we need to pester the executive produce and Hilmar at fanfest. And have discussions like this. What else can we do to show CCP that there is significant support for WiS, that people want to be able to explore derelicts.
Also I think it's pretty poor that we still don't have tattoos even tho Torfi said at the last fanfest that they would be coming in inferno.
The cheer at the CCP Presents Keynote certainly got his attention: http://twitter.com/HilmarVeigar/status/328249408355442690
(forums ate my post)
The safest bet would be to try and add the WiS stuff to the "new space" concept, albeit it makes no sense to deliver content that means either you're alone in a cell in hisec or fighting for your life in unknown space, with nothing inbetween, while the social spaces are the thing that keeps people pandering for WiS. Maybe CCP knows better than we what do we want?
Also I don't understand why avatars have been completely abandoned, turning everything said in Fanfest 2012 into a lie (at least, Fanfest 2013 just said nothing). The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1577
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 13:32:00 -
[943] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:I really think Kickstarter or something similar for WiS is a good idea. Something to show that EVE players DO care about WiS and will put their money where their mouths are. There's a very vocal minority claiming nobody wants it, but I have a feeling there's at least as many silent people who wouldn't mind at all.
There's another thing we could do, though I don't think it's in any way constructive. Incarna development was scrapped because of a temper tantrum and shooting of statues. Perhaps another temper tantrum and shooting of statues is needed to re-start the development? Trouble is, sane, sensible players who like the game and only want it to get better are not the type to behave that way.
Problem si, no company in its sane mind can let customers make business decissions for them. If we raise money for WiS, why not have some other special interest raise money for whatever interests them?
Also, we must consider the NEx store: it was conceived as a way to rise funds for avatar content (sell clothes, use isk to develop clothes, sell clothes, repeat). And it's been a failure because of several factors, of which target interest isn't a part. The interest remains, but CCP apparently doesn't wants to take any chances... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
|
CCP Bayesian
665
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:24:00 -
[944] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Also I don't understand why avatars have been completely abandoned, turning everything said in Fanfest 2012 into a lie (at least, Fanfest 2013 just said nothing).
I don't think it was a lie, more what we learnt after Fanfest 2012 changed our outlook. A lot happens in a year and that learning I think was a good thing ultimately. That might seem like a distinction without difference to you guys though. :( EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1681
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:29:00 -
[945] - Quote
@CCP Bayesian
Approx what % of EVE players are still using Windows XP & Vista? The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
29
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:36:00 -
[946] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, apparently the presentation on "Prototyping the future" had nothing to do with the WiS prototype, rather was a technical one on gameplay prototyping & using mining as an instance.
To be frank, I am kind of emotionally exhausted ont his issue. I feel like litherally banging my head on a door. And all in all it doesn't matters much. My only gripe is how avatars have been completely abandoned and not even the simpler things are being done. Probably that's better in the long run, so we lose all hope.
The game is what it is and it never will be anything else. Some deem this good as they like what the game is, others deem it bad as they aren't satisfied with what the game is, but all in all, CCP decided that DUST and not WiS was the way to expand EVE, and also that WoD and not WiS was the way to reach to new player demographics.
I'm even tempted to agree with them and seriously consider WoD as something worth to look upon as a substitute for EVE.
No matter the potential for EVE (the whole "sci fi simulation" stuff), it's an old game and in the last years it's gone past the point where it could reinvent itself and survive. They're better betting on more of the same than try and burden the core game with new stuff which could misfire as miserably as Incarna...
Think about it this way: after an atomic bomb hit, you do not run outside of your bunker when only one hour have passed , you sit and take your time.
So CCP is doing pretty much this, they sit and take their time. And they don't just sit on their asses doing nothing they are fixing things that were broken for ages. What I saw at "CCP presents" was that when Hilmar asked about the door, people said yes and not just few people a ton of people and then some. Now CCP knows that there is not just two and a half of a person that do want WiS. Probably they will start thinking about it more.
We know that summer expansion will be Odyssey, winter will hopefully be POSes and 0.0 revisit and then there is not long till fanfest 2014. Where even more people will say "hell yes, open that damn door already". So in the end of 2014 or early 2015 we could see more WiS content. (that of course if CCP won't screw up something completely cause there is always a big chance of that) |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1089
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:38:00 -
[947] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Also I don't understand why avatars have been completely abandoned, turning everything said in Fanfest 2012 into a lie (at least, Fanfest 2013 just said nothing). I don't think it was a lie, more what we learnt after Fanfest 2012 changed our outlook. A lot happens in a year and that learning I think was a good thing ultimately. That might seem like a distinction without difference to you guys though. :(
To be fair, there was a lot of stuff at 2012 FanFest that was almost universally seen as a very good thing. For example, those images of ships showing damage/disintegrating instead of just current "poof, gone" ship death. Or the new drone UI that was shown as a quick mock-up. I don't think there's anyone out there that wouldn't want those, and a bunch of other stuff shown as well.
I get that the outlook can change, but how much did it change really? If the team had time to add the new jumpgates and the new jump effect, both of which are purely 100% cosmetic, why not add that stuff shown at the last FanFest instead of leaving it to be vaporware? As far as FanFests go, as often as not the stuff shown just never materializes, and the stuff that does get done was not even mentioned at the previous FanFests. Was the new jump effect and jumpgates mentioned last FanFest? I honestly don't remember. But there's a lot of stuff that was mentioned that never came to be.
I know it's cynical, but watching 2013 FanFest coverage, I was mentally slapping myself every 5 minutes to remind me that based on previous experience anything I see is vaporware until proven otherwise. |
|
CCP Bayesian
666
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:42:00 -
[948] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:@CCP Bayesian
Approx what % of EVE players are still using Windows XP & Vista?
Somewhere around 10-15% IIRC. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1681
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:44:00 -
[949] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Doc Fury wrote:@CCP Bayesian
Approx what % of EVE players are still using Windows XP & Vista? Somewhere around 10-15% IIRC.
That's a lot better (less) than I thought TBH. Thanks.
By next year that should hopefully be less than 5%.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
CCP Bayesian
666
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 14:54:00 -
[950] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: To be fair, there was a lot of stuff at 2012 FanFest that was almost universally seen as a very good thing. For example, those images of ships showing damage/disintegrating instead of just current "poof, gone" ship death. Or the new drone UI that was shown as a quick mock-up. I don't think there's anyone out there that wouldn't want those, and a bunch of other stuff shown as well.
I get that the outlook can change, but how much did it change really? If the team had time to add the new jumpgates and the new jump effect, both of which are purely 100% cosmetic, why not add that stuff shown at the last FanFest instead of leaving it to be vaporware? As far as FanFests go, as often as not the stuff shown just never materializes, and the stuff that does get done was not even mentioned at the previous FanFests. Was the new jump effect and jumpgates mentioned last FanFest? I honestly don't remember. But there's a lot of stuff that was mentioned that never came to be.
I know it's cynical, but watching 2013 FanFest coverage, I was mentally slapping myself every 5 minutes to remind me that based on previous experience anything I see is vaporware until proven otherwise.
This is ever the danger of showing someone something shiny. Part of Fanfest is really us showing you very cool stuff that we're trying out. Our tech art guys showed some awesome stuff they've been trying out with DX11 but always with the caveat that its not necessarily going to appear on a development roadmap soon. Some things are just easier than others and others rely on technology we need to migrate too. Then a lot of things, for example the drone UI depend on what teams decide to focus on. That they didn't happen doesn't mean they will never happen and showing stuff typically doesn't mean its ready for release even if it looks amazing. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
707
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 15:07:00 -
[951] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello again,
I want to say a couple of more things to get us on the same level:
Regarding the extra clothing items that have not been released, there are indeed a large amount of new clothing assets that just require publishing. Team Avatar got some of these out to you already but due to almost 100% of our focus being on prototyping we never got round to releasing them all. We were also waiting on a pricing structure being given to us. However, in saying that I know for a fact that there is talk internally regarding these items going on, so the when/where/how's are unknown to me specifically but I'm pretty sure you will see these items sometime in the future.
So to please us "Barbie lovers" can these finally be published? Like throw us a bone and we'll be quiet for a few months :P (The quote from CCP Reddawn is from over a year ago) This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1090
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 15:08:00 -
[952] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Think about it this way: after an atomic bomb hit, you do not run outside of your bunker when only one hour have passed , you sit and take your time. So CCP is doing pretty much this, they sit and take their time. And they don't just sit on their asses doing nothing they are fixing things that were broken for ages. What I saw at "CCP presents" was that when Hilmar asked about the door, people said yes and not just few people a ton of people and then some. Now CCP knows that there is not just two and a half of a person that do want WiS. Probably they will start thinking about it more. We know that summer expansion will be Odyssey, winter will hopefully be POSes and 0.0 revisit and then there is not long till fanfest 2014. Where even more people will say "hell yes, open that damn door already". So in the end of 2014 or early 2015 we could see more WiS content. (that of course if CCP won't screw up something completely cause there is always a big chance of that)
See. that's an excellent point. But this stagnation leads to problems of its own.
Incarna launch was a mess. True. Not because of WiS itself, but because it was a perfect storm from three fronts - Incarna failing to deliver content, NEX store, and the infamous letter. This resulted in the "atomic bomb hit" effect you mentioned.
However, since then CCP stayed away from anything WiS. The last two years have been virtually 100% FiS. And what happened? Did the game grow? Well, yes and no. Total number of subs climbed past 500k, which is good. The bad part is, the PCU record hasn't been broken in over two years. This, to me, suggests that the new accounts are alts, and the actual number of actual people out there in the game hasn't grown. Arguably, it shrunk. Or at the very least, as PCU records show, the game never recovered to pre-Incarna Incursion expansion levels.
My point is, CCP can continue to do what they've been doing for the past 2 years. And they continue to do what they've been doing for 8 years before that. And the end result will be the same - the game will continue to stagnate. All the FiS development they did, all the improvements to the new player experience, all that still failed to bring in more people. Or if it did bring some, the amount is fairly negligible.
They NEED to push past "spaceships and spreadsheets" image that has been attached to EVE like a fig leaf for a decade now. No amount of new spaceships or space mechanics will bring new people in, or make those who tried EVE and quit come back. Anyone who wanted to play internet spaceships is already playing internet spaceships. Adding more internet spaceships won't add more people. But adding a whole new dimension to the game by way of meaningful avatar gameplay will turn this game into a full-fledges sci-fi sim, and population is very likely to jump.
Now, a lot of people are REALLY against "barbies in space". And I totally get that. But how can it be a bad thing if the game suddenly attracted hundreds of thousands of new people with this "barbies in space" content? No matter who these new people are, would adding a few hundred thousand new people to the game possibly be a bad thing?
Now, you could argue that "barbies in space" may not attract anyone at all. To that I say, extremely unlikely. Why? Simple. What is the best-selling PC game of all time? WoW? Call of Duty? Nope, it's The Sims series! Between the three games, the series sold around 50 million copies. Sims 2 alone sold over 20 million copies. There IS a market for this kind of stuff.
Bottom line, I feel the last two years PROVED, beyond any reasonable doubt, that as far as "internet spaceships" go, EVE has peaked. No amount of additional internet spaceship content will make this game move forward. It will either continue to stagnate, or it'll crash and burn if sufficiently strong competition appears. Those are the only two possible outcomes if they stick to the current internet-spaceships-only development plan. They need to diversify.
Now, I'm going to just say some more totally-off-the-wall stuff, so just ignore that if this kind of thing bothers you. But consider this - what if Star Citizen, for example, is a hit and delivers just enough MMO-like stuff (persistent world and character), and has vastly superior physics and combat mechanics? Can you look me square in the monocle and say this will not affect EVE's population one iota? What if Elite is a similar hit? What if Blizzard's next MMO is set in a sci-fi universe (e.g. Starcraft)? What if it is a sandbox, not a themepark? I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally plan to try out both Star Citizen and Elite when they come out. And while I'm doing that, I won't be playing EVE.
See where I'm heading with this? It's good to stay in the bomb shelter and play it safe. Until the food runs out. And then you starve to death. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 15:26:00 -
[953] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote: I don't think it was a lie, more what we learnt after Fanfest 2012 changed our outlook. A lot happens in a year and that learning I think was a good thing ultimately. That might seem like a distinction without difference to you guys though. :(
666 likes, teh devil. o_O
EDIT: (not 10 seconds later) dang, outdated already. -.- There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
157
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 15:34:00 -
[954] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief, I could kiss you. You make a dreadful amount of sense in your post. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 15:34:00 -
[955] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Dat Wall of text...
... actually surpised me, valid points and all. +1 from me. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Lost True
Paradise project
2153
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 16:20:00 -
[956] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Jame Jarl Retief, I could kiss you. You make a dreadful amount of sense in your post. Exactly.
I can add this graph. If the game have recieved a lot of new subs, then why the site visits haven't grown much. In fant, it's even kinda downtrend...
There is definitely need some diversity.
It's okay to balance ships, BUT you're doing it every year... On the last fanfest i've heard that there is no intention to do a perfect balance and it's good to have ships changing all the time... Well, maybe it's cool, maybe not(for thoso who always get nerfed), but how exactly does those improving the game? Shifting the balance between ships and everytime call it a "great FiS expansion"...
I liked the fanfest in general, amazing stuff... But what about the goddamn door, at least something new for us, the players who wants it, not a complete new world for the avatars yet, but something for the start. Is this so much to ask?
A couple of my mates who i invited to the trial account have been very surprized and when i told them that there is only one room, although of course, they were there for the spaceships... Because it's kinda strange after the games like STO, which i like to play sometimes too.
Because WiS it's not some cool and unique feature, it's just how the games are today - you can be in the space and on the ground. Only the ground or space it's kinda out of date ALREADY. not just possibly with the release Elite or SC.
No content or meaning for WiS? LOL, there will never be one, if you'll not start to make the WiS itself somehow... in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much? [-á-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦] -£-¦-¦-+-+-+-¦ -¦-+-Ç-+-+-Ç-¦-å-+-Å Transtellar |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1358
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 16:50:00 -
[957] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Stuff
I'm going to jump on the band wagon to say you hit the nail right on the head. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
755
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 17:02:00 -
[958] - Quote
rofl
not breaking the single day pcu record is the new metric for "eve is dying"
you ******* circlejerking morons are such a joke |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
38
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 17:13:00 -
[959] - Quote
In the wake of the Fanfest and the CCP Seagull's EVE keynote I had a dream of my own about EVE's future.
I had a dream about the EVE we have grown to love improving and becoming better expansion after expansion. Players would keep exploring, scamming mining, fighting, building and destroying. Alongside them there would be DUST514 and its players, fighting on the ground against each other and drones. They'd also fight the boarding actions in stations and perhaps ships. But more than that, they would be exploring wrecks alongside "shore clones" of the capsuleers (more of that later). There would also be fighter pilots using Oculus Rift, flying to the fight the fighters that carrier pilots enabled for player use. Other times they could fight their own battles as training or whatever... just corporations could call for its carrier pilots when needed. Inside Captain's Quarters there would be that side scroller game for players to use if they so wished. Maybe something else. And the door, the door would open.
Through that door we could go to the stations, to socialize, to scam, to recruit, spy, hack, sneak... and fight where security was lax. Other than stations, we could explore ruins, derelict vessels and other places, trying to find valuable data and resources. We could go there exploring and fighting both alongside and against Dust Bunnies (assuming technical barriers were crossed and Sony would allow it), opening new avenues for adventure. We'd have more tools at our use, allowing us to scan for example heart beat like in Rainbow Six games (I loved Rogue Spear), and we'd have more command tools, allowing to plan and direct operations of sneak and assault in the manner seen in Rogue Spear (yeah... I loved it).
Maybe in year or few my dream is reality. Just maybe. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
707
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 17:33:00 -
[960] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:rofl
not breaking the single day pcu record is the new metric for "eve is dying"
you ******* circlejerking morons are such a joke
when you run out of serious arguments, resort to insults This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
755
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 17:37:00 -
[961] - Quote
It is a serious argument, with an insult added to emphasize how pathetic and insular your argument is. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
707
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 17:42:00 -
[962] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:It is a serious argument, with an insult added to emphasize how pathetic and insular your argument is.
it's not my argument, I made no mention of eve dieing anywhere. My philosophy is that variety is the spice of life : when I get bored of FiS I want to have another option like WiS instead of logging out of the game and loading another one. Why is it so hard to understand? Wouldn't it be better if Eve was an all in one space sci-fi game instead of just a spaceship game? This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
755
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 17:55:00 -
[963] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:it's not my argument, I made no mention of eve dieing anywhere. My philosophy is that variety is the spice of life : when I get bored of FiS I want to have another option like WiS instead of logging out of the game and loading another one. Why is it so hard to understand? Wouldn't it be better if Eve was an all in one space sci-fi game instead of just a spaceship game?
Seriouspost (prepare thyself):
I actually have nothing against WiS in concept. I, along with most people who don't support it outright or are hesitant to do so, only care about the use of developer resources that it would take. The best possible way forward for people who really want WiS would be to come to some general agreement about a sliding scale of features they'd like to see, and convince an interested dev to give some reasonable comparisons of what would need to be sacrificed in the rest of the game to achieve those goals.
For example, if WiS supporters could generally agree that being able to invite other avatars into your quarters as an "instance" would be the first coherent and complete WiS "thing", then CCP could give a comparison of what that would take in terms of sacrifices in other areas of development. By having this metric that players can use to even roughly evaluate the exchange, they can form a real opinion on whether that is something that would overall improve the game for them, a cost-benefit analysis.
As it stands, WiS is some amorphous idea with no even remotely clear vision for its content and limits, nor what the competing visions would mean in terms of sacrifice in other areas of development. And, as such, it remains on the backburners of development.
Because the actual factors involved are so unclear, people reject the concept as a whole, and its supporters are reduced to making terrible arguments with no basis in fact or reality, usually to the tune of "eve is dying and only avatar interaction can save it", which is so ridiculous and painfully self-serving as to be worthy of insult and ridicule (which it often receives). |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
29
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:31:00 -
[964] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: Good post, but to big to quote.
I see your point and I can't say I disagree with it, but (there is always but) consider this:
If Hilmar said "we will continue work on WiS" on fanfest after Incarna how big of a player base rage that could have raised, how many rage quits would have followed, how much tears and hate there would be on forums. So right now they just sit, playing the waiting games. This is point one.
Right now EVE as FiS have problems like ship balancing, POSes, 0.0. So first, things that are broken must be fixed. Then, only then new features like WiS can be introduced.(imho of course) Look at it this way: if someone ordered to paint a portrait you do not wibbly wobbly some face features put an awesome, refined frame and call it a day. You make face the centerpiece of a painting with all its highlights, shadows, half-shadows and so on, and only then you put a frame that will make this portrait more refined. This is point two.
Last point: about Star Citizen and Elite. I agree with you, but do not forget that EVE is a game with 10 years of content put in, it would be impossible for a new game to have so much content on release, it will be just physically impossible to do this. Plus you as a consumer and a sci-fi fan should be happy if Star Citizen and Elite came out and turn out to be great. On top of that competition just makes things greater, so again can't see how you as a consumer would not benefit from that.
About Blizzard: sorry, not buying it. =/ They have one good game that is Starcraft, will they make a sandbox MMO in this universe - maybe, will they make a good sandbox MMO - probably not.
Ou, CCP Bayesian talking to people, explaining stuff to us, collecting 666 likes ... you sil..
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
709
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:34:00 -
[965] - Quote
Not our fault that WiS is so unclear. Im sure that as has happened with many other parts of the game, CCP can bring together a team and focus on a WiS plan. Heck, they even had the time to build an arcade side scroller (in their spare time) then they definitely can do something similar for WiS so that at least people will finally be convinced that its a good thing.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1359
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:35:00 -
[966] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote: I, along with most people who don't support it outright or are hesitant to do so, only care about the use of developer resources that it would take.
So... Your fine with CCP putting money and employees into other projects that don't really affect you much, like Dust and WoD... but your not happy with the idea that CCP might use some resources to make WiS work? Don't get me wrong. When CCP do avatar development, I want it to be done properly. But you don't see me in here trolling people because you want it done your way, not theirs. You should have just said how you thought it should be done in the first place.
As for total active users as a measurement of success for Eve... It might not be a measure of success for CCP (Because so long as they get the subs, its all good) but it is a good show of the health of the game. Subs mean nothing to me or my game-play, but active users makes all the difference. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
755
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:37:00 -
[967] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Not our fault that WiS is so unclear. Im sure that as has happened with many other parts of the game, CCP can bring together a team and focus on a WiS plan. Heck, they even had the time to build an arcade side scroller (in their spare time) then they definitely can do something similar for WiS so that at least people will finally be convinced that its a good thing.
A prime example of a thoroughly unconvincing argument.
All I see is "wahhhh because I want it". As long as this is the best you can come up with, WiS will continue to languish in development purgatory.
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
755
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:41:00 -
[968] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:
So... Your fine with CCP putting money and employees into other projects that don't really affect you much, like Dust and WoD... but your not happy with the idea that CCP might use some resources to make WiS work? Don't get me wrong. When CCP do avatar development, I want it to be done properly. But you don't see me in here trolling people because you want it done your way, not theirs. You should have just said how you thought it should be done in the first place.
Let me tell you how companies and income streams work...actually, look it up. If you want to actually properly argue that WiS development can receive its own team based on its own projected revenue streams, then please do so. Until then, think before you type.
Arduemont wrote:As for total active users as a measurement of success for Eve... It might not be a measure of success for CCP (Because so long as they get the subs, its all good) but it is a good show of the health of the game. Subs mean nothing to me or my game-play, but active users makes all the difference.
Total active users is a great metric. Record peak concurrent is not. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
710
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:43:00 -
[969] - Quote
sigh .. I have better success arguing with a brick wall. Of course I want it, but as you can see from these multiple WiS threads it's not just me. Anyways i'm done arguing, hoping that one day CCP will see the light behind the door and finally iterate on WiS. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
29
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:50:00 -
[970] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:
For example, if WiS supporters could generally agree that being able to invite other avatars into your quarters as an "instance" would be the first coherent and complete WiS "thing", then CCP could give a comparison of what that would take in terms of sacrifices in other areas of development. By having this metric that players can use to even roughly evaluate the exchange, they can form a real opinion on whether that is something that would overall improve the game for them, a cost-benefit analysis.
Players are not stakeholders and can't do those things.
|
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
755
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:57:00 -
[971] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Players are not stakeholders and can't do those things.
Right, but they seem to believe they can pound out ridiculous arguments on GD that basically equate to feet-stamping and breath-holding and THAT will make the difference.
If you don't believe that a coherent and representative message can impact CCP development strategy, then you definitely don't believe that the **** that goes on in threads like this can. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
598
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 18:59:00 -
[972] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:
For example, if WiS supporters could generally agree that being able to invite other avatars into your quarters as an "instance" would be the first coherent and complete WiS "thing", then CCP could give a comparison of what that would take in terms of sacrifices in other areas of development. By having this metric that players can use to even roughly evaluate the exchange, they can form a real opinion on whether that is something that would overall improve the game for them, a cost-benefit analysis.
Players are not stakeholders and can't do those things.
CCP disagrees. The whole point of the CSM is to turn player representatives into stakeholders. Since the CSM is elected by votes, that means players (that bother to vote) are stakeholders.
Just hasn't been any candidates running on a platform of "I'll make Barbies in space a priority" and I doubt they'd win if that were their platform.
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
157
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:08:00 -
[973] - Quote
Varius, since I think I made a fairly convincing argument in another thread, let me quote myself.
Teinyhr wrote:CCP Atlanta is and always was working on WoD, CCP Shanghai is working on DUST and CCP Reykjavik is working on EVE Online. Anyway I'm pretty freaking tired of this reasoning against WiS: "Oooh they'll have to drop everything to make Incarna worthwile, I'm against it because of this." No, they don't have to drop everything. CCP Demoed Ambulation (what Incarna was called back then) during 2008 fanfest (I think it was 2008, but could be 2009?), they had a mostly working prototype with establishments and minigames you could play with other capsuleers for ISK, they also demoed bots - in this case, bartenders - and mentioned they could be further developed in a way to allow player created missions; ...... Don't believe me? Watch the video. This fairly impressive prototype was by the way done during Eve's "golden years", expansions such as Trinity, Empyrean Age, Quantum Rise - Apocrypha, which, unless I remember terribly wrong, is generally hailed as one of the best (or at least most feature rich) EVE expansions to date. Go check for yourself all the things CCP got out, while working on that prototype for Incarna.But frankly, I'm amazed how many people seem think CCP can't do anything these days without completely ignoring everything else than the one thing they are working on. CCP - I believe in you.
Also, I'm pretty sure all people who would like to see walking in stations become more than what it is right now, would agree that ANY kind of iteration on it would be good. Being able to invite a limited number of people to captain's quarters for example is one of the most requested little things in Incarna related threads. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Daktaklakpak.
2149
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:10:00 -
[974] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:Players are not stakeholders and can't do those things. Right, but they seem to believe they can pound out ridiculous arguments on GD that basically equate to feet-stamping and breath-holding and THAT will make the difference. If you don't believe that a coherent and representative message can impact CCP development strategy, then you definitely don't believe that the **** that goes on in threads like this can.
lol...what? You are saying the pro-WiS guys are the ones stomping their feet?
Then what do we call what happened to that poor statue in Jita? Shitting their diapers and pissing in the faces of CCP?
What was the message given when WiS released? CCP isn't doing what I want when I want it so I am going to quit EVE!
How special is that? Unfortunately the rest of us that want WiS have sense enough to not act like little kids who had their candy taken away when we don't get what we want. Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821 |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1359
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:12:00 -
[975] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote: Let me tell you how companies and income streams work...actually, look it up. If you want to actually properly argue that WiS development can receive its own team based on its own projected revenue streams, then please do so. Until then, think before you type.
Yes, because the WoD project is running a wonderful revenue. Please tell us more about your in depth business experience, haha.
Varius Xeral wrote:Right, but they seem to believe they can pound out ridiculous arguments on GD that basically equate to feet-stamping and breath-holding and THAT will make the difference.
What supporters are doing is gentle persuasion. What your doing is feet stamping. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Barramuda
Meltdown.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:17:00 -
[976] - Quote
This makes my Thorax hard ...
Sad to see its only concept far and away from production. But Im loving the idea. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
755
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:19:00 -
[977] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Yes, because the WoD project is running a wonderful revenue. Please tell us more about your in depth business experience, haha.
I'm discussing the structure of how projects are undertaken. You can either start conversing on a relatively equal conceptual level as me, or you will just be ignored. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
755
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:23:00 -
[978] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Varius, since I think I made a fairly convincing argument in another thread, let me quote myself.
You are absolutely on the right track, though the actual content of your argument is underwhelming. It basically comes down to what people expect the output to be and what the inputs required will be. I am extremely confident that that is the hang-up for most people who don't support or don't care about WiS.
If you believe that a difference can be made, then work at collectively articulating your expected outputs, and then getting any kind of official feedback from CCP on what it would take in inputs to achieve them.
Good luck. |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
29
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:24:00 -
[979] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:Players are not stakeholders and can't do those things. Right, but they seem to believe they can pound out ridiculous arguments on GD that basically equate to feet-stamping and breath-holding and THAT will make the difference. If you don't believe that a coherent and representative message can impact CCP development strategy, then you definitely don't believe that the **** that goes on in threads like this can.
Yes, I do not believe in that. I saw this thread as a player discussion and a dev explaining some things.
LHA Tarawa wrote: CCP disagrees. The whole point of the CSM is to turn player representatives into stakeholders. Since the CSM is elected by votes, that means players (that bother to vote) are stakeholders.
Just hasn't been any candidates running on a platform of "I'll make Barbies in space a priority" and I doubt they'd win if that were their platform.
Do you really believe in what you are saying.
And there were 2 maybe even 3 with not a priority, but a consideration that WiS can be an interesting addition. And one can even be on a CSM8 now if I'm not mistaken. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1360
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:28:00 -
[980] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote: I'm discussing the structure of how projects are undertaken. You can either start conversing on a relatively equal conceptual level as me, or you will just be ignored.
You know nothing about how projects are run and how their revenue worth is determined. Don't try and lecture me like some kind of expert. Even the other anti-WiS crowd are laughing at you at this point.
Varius Xeral wrote:or you will just be ignored.
Please do. And by that I mean, **** off to somewhere else. We don't need your feet stomping here. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
10
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:53:00 -
[981] - Quote
CCP Unifex wrote:I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space.
Flying in space is overrated.
Could we use the new CSM voting system to find out if people really hated Incarna or if it was a vocal minority?
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1577
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 19:57:00 -
[982] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Also I don't understand why avatars have been completely abandoned, turning everything said in Fanfest 2012 into a lie (at least, Fanfest 2013 just said nothing). I don't think it was a lie, more what we learnt after Fanfest 2012 changed our outlook. A lot happens in a year and that learning I think was a good thing ultimately. That might seem like a distinction without difference to you guys though. :(
I didn't say it was a lie, but that it became a lie. Anyway I am intrigued as what did you learn after fanfest that lead to the abandonment of avatars. Can you expand it, please? What did you learned?
Also, something can be said for true: people who want WiS are dwindling as they stop playing EVE, so the more it goes, the lesser an issue becomes WiS from "natural causes". "Issue delayed, issue resolved", we say in this cynical southern tip of Europe. Why kill your enemy if he can just die of an old age? Why bother with an incovenient demand from players, if those players just can be let go by depriving them of all hope?
I wonder who in this thread, was in the threads about WiS in 2011. Methink I'm the only one, and I'm not even subscribed, not since October. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1360
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 20:07:00 -
[983] - Quote
Your really not. I've been here with an uninterrupted sub since 2009. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1577
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 20:24:00 -
[984] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:(serious case on the stagnation front)
There's another side to stagnation: as EVE has been in the market for 10 years, how many potential players haven't tried it yet? And what does EVE offer now that it hasn't been offering for years?
If you were aware of EVE, and never interested yourself to try it for 10 years, or you tried and didn't liked anytime of the last 10 years, why should you give a try or try again in 2013? Because in june 4th some obscure mechanics you don't know, that affect some obscure gameplay you don't care of, will be shifted?
"Hey, you should really try EVE now! They're removing static ice belts!" "OMFG, is that true? Oh glorious day, i am joining EVE at least! And will get a sidekick and then a Power of 2, too!"
I'm gonna tell you a little secret. I am not the one who joined EVE first. It was my sister. I saw her try it and tried myself, and was instant love, subbed like 5 days into the trial. Don't look for my sis, though. She left after noticing that the game only had ships and hers was exactly like the next one... The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1871
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 20:57:00 -
[985] - Quote
Removing static ice belts won't make many new players join, this is true. Other projects such as the ship rebalancing ("you mean I don't have to train for 12 months before I can do anything fun and useful any more") and the New Player Experience ("you mean the game actually tells me what I need to do now") might, though. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1793
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 21:03:00 -
[986] - Quote
CCP Unifex wrote:I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. The issue with your statement is its the same thing as saying "Never" without actually saying it. No matter how much money CCP has, spending any of it on WiS will always mean that money cannot be spent on something else.
CCP Unifex, if this is wrong, could you please tell me how money can be spent on WiS with that same money being totally unavailable for FiS? How can any money be spent on WiS without someone saying "You could have just hired different people, good at FiS features, and spent it on them!"
(Actually I know one way: A bunch of players get together and say "We will give you this money for WiS, but only WiS".)
The way I see it CCP needs to come clean here. Either declare Avatar based features dead forever in the game of Eve, or state that at some point money that could be spent on FiS will instead be spent on WiS.
As for voting: I like it. Lets let everyone who plays vote for what features they want. The portion of their subscription that goes to development will go to the feature they voted for. That way everyone who does not want WiS can be sure none of their money went to develop it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
760
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 21:14:00 -
[987] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The way I see it CCP needs to come clean here. Either declare Avatar based features dead forever in the game of Eve, or state that at some point money that could be spent on FiS will instead be spent on WiS.
Never happen. A huge part of Eve's selling point is imaginings of what doesn't yet and may never actually exist. As long as they don't overplay their hand, they can string us along for years with various pie in the sky visions.
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
Daktaklakpak.
2153
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 21:26:00 -
[988] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:(serious case on the stagnation front) There's another side to stagnation: as EVE has been in the market for 10 years, how many potential players haven't tried it yet? And what does EVE offer now that it hasn't been offering for years? If you were aware of EVE, and never interested yourself to try it for 10 years, or you tried and didn't liked anytime of the last 10 years, why should you give a try or try again in 2013? Because in june 4th some obscure mechanics you don't know, that affect some obscure gameplay you don't care of, will be shifted? "Hey, you should really try EVE now! They're removing static ice belts!" "OMFG, is that true? Oh glorious day, i am joining EVE at least! And will get a sidekick and then a Power of 2, too!" I'm gonna tell you a little secret. I am not the one who joined EVE first. It was my sister. I saw her try it and tried myself, and was instant love, subbed like 5 days into the trial. Don't look for my sis, though. She left after noticing that the game only had ships and hers was exactly like the next one... Bingo. Frankly everytime I stop playing EVE for a month or two (usually stay subbed for trainings) it's because I am bored of the same old thing day in and day out. The people that haven't joined or had a trial account and quit did so for a reason. Well...that reason hasn't changed in 10 years but could have with meaningful gameplay through WiS.
I have said this a thousand times and I will say it again. I can't count the number of people I have spoken to about EVE who say they won't play simply because it is nothing but ships in space. People want more than ships in space. EVE caters to a very minor group of gamers and will continue to do so until CCP expands EVE to include more than ships in space. DUST begins to do this but DUST is not EVE and is on the PS3.
The population of players in EVE would explode if there was some meaningful PvP gameplay within the stations of EVE. And no, this does not mean through DUST. This means getting a gun and shooting other players in the face from behind cover in the halls of a station. Such gameplay would invite a huge amount of players who would slowly but surely gravitate into flying ships in space and doing PvP in nullsec.
Sadly...a lot of people just don't seem to understand this and stick to their ignorant views of WiS because they don't want to do it. Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821 |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1579
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 21:32:00 -
[989] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:(serious case on the stagnation front) There's another side to stagnation: as EVE has been in the market for 10 years, how many potential players haven't tried it yet? And what does EVE offer now that it hasn't been offering for years? If you were aware of EVE, and never interested yourself to try it for 10 years, or you tried and didn't liked anytime of the last 10 years, why should you give a try or try again in 2013? Because in june 4th some obscure mechanics you don't know, that affect some obscure gameplay you don't care of, will be shifted? "Hey, you should really try EVE now! They're removing static ice belts!" "OMFG, is that true? Oh glorious day, i am joining EVE at least! And will get a sidekick and then a Power of 2, too!" I'm gonna tell you a little secret. I am not the one who joined EVE first. It was my sister. I saw her try it and tried myself, and was instant love, subbed like 5 days into the trial. Don't look for my sis, though. She left after noticing that the game only had ships and hers was exactly like the next one... Bingo. Frankly everytime I stop playing EVE for a month or two (usually stay subbed for trainings) it's because I am bored of the same old thing day in and day out. The people that haven't joined or had a trial account and quit did so for a reason. Well...that reason hasn't changed in 10 years but could have with meaningful gameplay through WiS. I have said this a thousand times and I will say it again. I can't count the number of people I have spoken to about EVE who say they won't play simply because it is nothing but ships in space. People want more than ships in space. EVE caters to a very minor group of gamers and will continue to do so until CCP expands EVE to include more than ships in space. DUST begins to do this but DUST is not EVE and is on the PS3. The population of players in EVE would explode if there was some meaningful PvP gameplay within the stations of EVE. And no, this does not mean through DUST. This means getting a gun and shooting other players in the face from behind cover in the halls of a station. Such gameplay would invite a huge amount of players who would slowly but surely gravitate into flying ships in space and doing PvP in nullsec. Sadly...a lot of people just don't seem to understand this and stick to their ignorant views of WiS because they don't want to do it.
And you guess what? Make that shooting game as casual friendly as Planetside 2 (IE: no f'n grinding for f'n hours to f'n recoup from a single f'n loss) and even I would play it... through drone clones, of course. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Daktaklakpak.
2155
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 22:14:00 -
[990] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:(...) Bingo. Frankly everytime I stop playing EVE for a month or two (usually stay subbed for trainings) it's because I am bored of the same old thing day in and day out. The people that haven't joined or had a trial account and quit did so for a reason. Well...that reason hasn't changed in 10 years but could have with meaningful gameplay through WiS.
I have said this a thousand times and I will say it again. I can't count the number of people I have spoken to about EVE who say they won't play simply because it is nothing but ships in space. People want more than ships in space. EVE caters to a very minor group of gamers and will continue to do so until CCP expands EVE to include more than ships in space. DUST begins to do this but DUST is not EVE and is on the PS3.
The population of players in EVE would explode if there was some meaningful PvP gameplay within the stations of EVE. And no, this does not mean through DUST. This means getting a gun and shooting other players in the face from behind cover in the halls of a station. Such gameplay would invite a huge amount of players who would slowly but surely gravitate into flying ships in space and doing PvP in nullsec.
Sadly...a lot of people just don't seem to understand this and stick to their ignorant views of WiS because they don't want to do it. And you guess what? Make that shooting game as casual friendly as Planetside 2 (IE: no f'n grinding for f'n hours to f'n recoup from a single f'n loss) and even I would play it... through drone clones, of course. Hell no...make it ME3 over the shoulder 3rd person with cover style and the same kind of style DUST uses for weapon and suit loss. MEANINGFUL gameplay. Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821 |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1686
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 22:24:00 -
[991] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Unifex wrote:I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. The issue with your statement is its the same thing as saying "Never" without actually saying it. No matter how much money CCP has, spending any of it on WiS will always mean that money cannot be spent on something else.
No. What he is saying is that work on EVE should not basically stop when work on WIS starts-up again, like last time.
In other words he wants to work on WIS if/when there are enough resources for Devs to work on both projects simultaneously.
The "GIEV WIS NAOW OR EVE WILL DIE!!!!!" crowd really needs to get some more realistic expectations, otherwise CCP might just stop talking to us altogether about it.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1579
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 22:32:00 -
[992] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:(...) Bingo. Frankly everytime I stop playing EVE for a month or two (usually stay subbed for trainings) it's because I am bored of the same old thing day in and day out. The people that haven't joined or had a trial account and quit did so for a reason. Well...that reason hasn't changed in 10 years but could have with meaningful gameplay through WiS.
I have said this a thousand times and I will say it again. I can't count the number of people I have spoken to about EVE who say they won't play simply because it is nothing but ships in space. People want more than ships in space. EVE caters to a very minor group of gamers and will continue to do so until CCP expands EVE to include more than ships in space. DUST begins to do this but DUST is not EVE and is on the PS3.
The population of players in EVE would explode if there was some meaningful PvP gameplay within the stations of EVE. And no, this does not mean through DUST. This means getting a gun and shooting other players in the face from behind cover in the halls of a station. Such gameplay would invite a huge amount of players who would slowly but surely gravitate into flying ships in space and doing PvP in nullsec.
Sadly...a lot of people just don't seem to understand this and stick to their ignorant views of WiS because they don't want to do it. And you guess what? Make that shooting game as casual friendly as Planetside 2 (IE: no f'n grinding for f'n hours to f'n recoup from a single f'n loss) and even I would play it... through drone clones, of course. Hell no...make it ME3 over the shoulder 3rd person with cover style and the same kind of style DUST uses for weapon and suit loss. MEANINGFUL gameplay.
"Meaningful" is a loaded word in EVE and it should not mean what is usually implied.
A player should feel he's been rewarded if he did it right, even if he didn't win != a player should feel he's a useless piece of excrement if he failed to did it right, let alone if he didn't win The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Ghazu
573
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 04:56:00 -
[993] - Quote
So stop being so excrementy lol. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
484
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 06:58:00 -
[994] - Quote
Incarna and the release of WiS was a massive failure due to two things.
First, it was coded as a part of a generic game engine that CCP wanted to be able to use their technology to expand beyond EvE. Sadly they badly underestimated the amount of work they'd had to invest to launch another game using the same game engine.
Secondly, they launched Incarna (CQ/WiS) without any real targets for it. It was like "oh cool, we have avatars, let's do something". Except that there was no plan, no target, no idea of _why_ they added avatars except that is was cool (and needed for the generic game engine).
And for anyone wanting just "small things" added I have to say that you either aren't familiar with the current state of CQ and have no experience what so ever of coding a game using it, or you are just plain delusional.
Adding just 2-3 avatars in the same room, without them falling over, getting stuck in a corner or melting your GPU is a huge investment in dev resource, for a very marginal outcome.
No sane company would ever do that.
WiS/CQ might still have a place, and a glorious comeback.
But not until CCP can come up with a real solid reason to invest a huge amount dev resources.
There are no cheap wins to be made with WiS, and to invest the resources needed there has to be a serious payback in the form of gameplay. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP (aka Judge) Peligro: I will find your main.
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
162
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:27:00 -
[995] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:WiS/CQ might still have a place, and a glorious comeback.
But not until CCP can come up with a real solid reason to invest a huge amount dev resources.
There are no cheap wins to be made with WiS, and to invest the resources needed there has to be a serious payback in the form of gameplay.
Did you read my post from the last page? They CAN invest in BOTH WiS and FiS, they've shown they could before, with a smaller team even. Why can't they do it now? Tell me, how is it impossible now? |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1583
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:32:00 -
[996] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:(...) There are no cheap wins to be made with WiS, and to invest the resources needed there has to be a serious payback in the form of gameplay.
Agree. But disagree.
What is gameplay? What is meaningful gameplay? And who determines it? The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1583
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:01:00 -
[997] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:WiS/CQ might still have a place, and a glorious comeback.
But not until CCP can come up with a real solid reason to invest a huge amount dev resources.
There are no cheap wins to be made with WiS, and to invest the resources needed there has to be a serious payback in the form of gameplay. Did you read my post from the last page? They CAN invest in BOTH WiS and FiS, they've shown they could before, with a smaller team even. Why can't they do it now? Tell me, how is it impossible now?
DUST and WoD are competing with WiS. And they've won hands down.
Did you see that TV commercial for DUST at Fanfest? That's how 20 million dollars look for you. You read well, 20 million dollars, it's the loan CCP took to pay for DUST 514's launch campaign, everything from Fanfest hype to TV commercials to the DUST + PS3 bundle and so and so.
20+ million dollars, accidentally, it's the (stated) development cost of Star Citizen, a whole new AAA title.
CCP had to loan that money because, obviously, they hadn't it available, and also obviously, they estimate that this kind of money will pay itself back at some point, if they do things right and succeed in the hard trick they're pulling out with EVE and DUST 514.
So it makes sense that they don't have time nor personnel nor money left for avatars in EVE.
My only little itch is... why did they decide to spend that kind of resources with DUST, and not with EVE avatar content? That makes sense, I suspect, as long as DUST could provide what EVE can't, like new paying customers.
So what was first? Stagnation, then DUST, or DUST, then stagnation? The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Veronica Aurilen
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:02:00 -
[998] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote: ..................Incarna launch was a mess. True. Not because of WiS itself, but because it was a perfect storm from three fronts - Incarna failing to deliver content, NEX store, and the infamous letter. This resulted in the "atomic bomb hit" effect you mentioned.....................................
..................They NEED to push past "spaceships and spreadsheets" image that has been attached to EVE like a fig leaf for a decade now. No amount of new spaceships or space mechanics will bring new people in, or make those who tried EVE and quit come back. Anyone who wanted to play internet spaceships is already playing internet spaceships.................. But adding a whole new dimension to the game by way of meaningful avatar gameplay will turn this game into a full-fledges sci-fi sim, and population is very likely to jump.
Now, a lot of people are REALLY against "barbies in space". And I totally get that. But how can it be a bad thing if the game suddenly attracted hundreds of thousands of new people with this "barbies in space" content? No matter who these new people are, would adding a few hundred thousand new people to the game possibly be a bad thing?
Now, you could argue that "barbies in space" may not attract anyone at all. To that I say, extremely unlikely. Why? Simple. What is the best-selling PC game of all time? WoW? Call of Duty? Nope, it's The Sims series! Between the three games, the series sold around 50 million copies. Sims 2 alone sold over 20 million copies. There IS a market for this kind of stuff.
Bottom line, I feel the last two years PROVED, beyond any reasonable doubt, that as far as "internet spaceships" go, EVE has peaked. No amount of additional internet spaceship content will make this game move forward. It will either continue to stagnate, or it'll crash and burn if sufficiently strong competition appears. ..........They need to diversify.
.......... what if Star Citizen, for example, is a hit and delivers just enough MMO-like stuff (persistent world and character), and has vastly superior physics and combat mechanics? Can you look me square in the monocle and say this will not affect EVE's population one iota? What if Elite is a similar hit? What if Blizzard's next MMO is set in a sci-fi universe.........................
See where I'm heading with this? It's good to stay in the bomb shelter and play it safe. Until the food runs out. And then you starve to death.
+10000 this pretty much sums it up.
I like flying in space and the depth of eve but to much of eve is focused on brackets and text walls. I can deal with that cause it enables the games depth which i love. BUT !!! i need more to keep me interested year after year. Incarna/WIS can be the enabler to add the visual immersion that is lacking in eve.
I see the eve trailers which show a more graphical and visual side to eve and im like why cant eve be more like that ????. Let me sit in a station bar, and watch the jita undock from a big window (with a zoomed in view so i can see the explosions), let me meet with my corpmates in a meeting room, let me play poker, let me store the heads of a selection of my pvp victims in a tank in my CQ, let me watch a television screen in bar/CQ that presents what is happening in sov space, high sec and low sec in the form of a tv news show.
I want more visual / immersive content and less text walls !! (but NO dumbing down)
by all means continue to fix FIS (it is important) but dont think that everyone in 2011 wanted you to dump WIS. We were just mad (and rightfully so) cause u released incarna with no content, introduced the nex store and PTW on horizon and then saw the hilmar letter/internal newsletter.
Keeping the depth but adding a more visual/immersive FIS & WIS is the future of Eve. (DUST is not EVE. U need to give EVE more resources, its survival just could be at stake)
AND the future needs to start happening now! |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1796
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 15:06:00 -
[999] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Unifex wrote:I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. The issue with your statement is its the same thing as saying "Never" without actually saying it. No matter how much money CCP has, spending any of it on WiS will always mean that money cannot be spent on something else. No. What he is saying is that work on EVE/FIS should not basically stop when work on WIS starts-up again, like last time. In other words he wants to work on WIS if/when there are enough resources for Devs to work on both projects simultaneously. In the case there there are enough resources to work on both projects simultaneously then there are also sufficient resources to work on additional FiS projects simultaneously. Buy choosing to not do that additional FiS project and do WiS instead, you are taking resources that could be used for FiS and applying them to WiS.
I would feel much more comfortable if CCP Unifex had said "I want to develop WiS as soon as we have sufficient developers to do a good job for both WiS and FiS". But he did not say that. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
CCP Bayesian
671
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 08:31:00 -
[1000] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I didn't say it was a lie, but that it became a lie. Anyway I am intrigued as what did you learn after fanfest that lead to the abandonment of avatars. Can you expand it, please? What did you learned?
The first two posts in this thread talk about it. :) EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
|
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Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
152
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 10:21:00 -
[1001] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:The first two posts in this thread talk about it. :)
Thank you for your patience and keeping the answers coming despite Team Avatar being shelved. One thing that I appreciated over the past year is the occasional bone thrown our way, The second batch of NEX items, followed by the new skin tone options, and the ability to zoom further out in the portrait were minor additions that I appreciated, but the big addition was the resculpt for PLEX option. All of this occurred after Fanfest 2012, and I really hope we will get a few more minor additions over the next year despite Team Avatar's disbanding,
Even another batch of NEX items which can already be viewed in the market browser (which according to the dev blog didn't divert almost any resources) would be nice. Something like a couple new hairstyles, or the much desired hats (one can hope) would be awesome though I do see them taking a bit of time to develop. I understand that the WiS project is on the shelf, but hope that we will still get more of these small additions. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
571
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 11:48:00 -
[1002] - Quote
Good thing is that once they build upon their existing small library of interior art assets (walls, furniture etc) making newer areas becomes a bit simpler.
Any word on what the 10 year vet stations will include CCP? Will they have a multi player environment? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1589
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 13:13:00 -
[1003] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I didn't say it was a lie, but that it became a lie. Anyway I am intrigued as what did you learn after fanfest that lead to the abandonment of avatars. Can you expand it, please? What did you learned? The first two posts in this thread talk about it. :)
But, those posts say why you aren't working on WiS. That doesn't explains why some clothing items remain unreleased since april 2011, why the "falling through the floor" bug has returned to the CQ, why the CQ interface wasn't updated after Crucible and the new universal inventory, why there's no work being done on sleeve tattoos and racial blending, and so and so. Not WiS, just some avatar content for the CC and the CQ.
All of the above, to my ignorant eyes, look like things that could be done by little teams in little time, and would do a big deal to make WiSers feel like CCP still regards us. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
683
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:40:00 -
[1004] - Quote
So was was nothing said at fanfest about WIS?
After the dust had settled on fanfest, if looks to me like the only thing to look forward to was a new jump animation...
We haven't had an expansion now for 2 years (even though CCP claim other wise) and i for one would like to see something fun and new instead of just tweaks to existing game play. Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |
BugraT WarheaD
62
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:46:00 -
[1005] - Quote
Hilmar told us : "DO YOU WANT US TO OPEN THE DOOR ?"
Some of us yeld "YEEEEEEAH" some shout "NOOOOOO" ... And he finally said (after 1 long minute) : Maybe at next fanfest so ?
So maybe next year ;) |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
599
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 17:05:00 -
[1006] - Quote
The way I see it.
If you remember fanfest 2011, it was all about "DELIVER". There had been all these things in the works for years, but nothing was really "ready". But, management shouted, "SHIP IT ANYWAY!".
We got Captain's Quarters with nothing to do there. LAME! Half developed, no content. You spent how many years working on this?
THEN were those of use that were SURE CCP was lying when they said it wasn't about moving to micro-transactions. Bull! And then we get confirmation that it really WAS all about moving toward micro transactions. Anger! Not only do we not like that direction, we REALLY dislike that you LIED about it, then told us we were wrong when we said you were lying about it.
THEN CCP takes a step back and asks is dev's how long it would take to create real meaningful stuff to do beyond the door, and the answer is, we're not even really have any good ideas for what that might be? No one wants it to be just walking to a store to be able to buy from the market. Poker? Really? Turn it into a first person shooter where you go down below to trade illegal goods with shadowy people?
I think once management realized that there weren't even any great ideas for what should be beyond the door, let alone any clear timelines for when it could be delivered... and even if it could be delivered, would just remind everyone about the lies around micro-transactions and would probably cost more revenue that it delivered... well... "Deliver!" turned into "Why bother?".
|
Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
64
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 18:54:00 -
[1007] - Quote
CCP somehow managed to pull together a virtual reality dog fighting game with a small team, over a few weeks, in their spare time.
Why not go the same way with avatars? Screw the fancy CQ graphics that melt steel, use Unity and whack together some good game play, give it to us on the test server, and once you have something that's fun, give it a quick polish and put it in the game. It doesn't have to look like CGI to be fun. |
Lina Alar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
4121
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 19:12:00 -
[1008] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I didn't say it was a lie, but that it became a lie. Anyway I am intrigued as what did you learn after fanfest that lead to the abandonment of avatars. Can you expand it, please? What did you learned? The first two posts in this thread talk about it. :) But, those posts say why you aren't working on WiS. That doesn't explains why some clothing items remain unreleased since april 2011, why the "falling through the floor" bug has returned to the CQ, why the CQ interface wasn't updated after Crucible and the new universal inventory, why there's no work being done on sleeve tattoos and racial blending, and so and so. Not WiS, just some avatar content for the CC and the CQ. All of the above, to my ignorant eyes, look like things that could be done by little teams in little time, and would do a big deal to make WiSers feel like CCP still regards us. I have to say I've also been disappointed to see the racial blending get shelved. Also Slay... Where did that go? That looked awesome.
Can we at least get an Eve Off-line console in our CQ? That was a lot of fun to play at Fanfest. An explanation of Eve socialization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTbgvYPVdXE Lick with your mainGäó |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
338
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 22:39:00 -
[1009] - Quote
Lina Alar wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:I didn't say it was a lie, but that it became a lie. Anyway I am intrigued as what did you learn after fanfest that lead to the abandonment of avatars. Can you expand it, please? What did you learned? The first two posts in this thread talk about it. :) But, those posts say why you aren't working on WiS. That doesn't explains why some clothing items remain unreleased since april 2011, why the "falling through the floor" bug has returned to the CQ, why the CQ interface wasn't updated after Crucible and the new universal inventory, why there's no work being done on sleeve tattoos and racial blending, and so and so. Not WiS, just some avatar content for the CC and the CQ. All of the above, to my ignorant eyes, look like things that could be done by little teams in little time, and would do a big deal to make WiSers feel like CCP still regards us. I have to say I've also been disappointed to see the racial blending get shelved. Also Slay... Where did that go? That looked awesome. Can we at least get an Eve Off-line console in our CQ? That was a lot of fun to play at Fanfest.
Or the sleeve tattoos that were shown at least years fanfest, said to be something like 95% done. Yet..nothing.
CCP did you ever think that one reason people dislike WIS is because there's no content, because you think no one likes WIS, which is because there's no content, which is why..You see where I'm going with this?
As others have said, if you can make EVR with a small team, why cant you just ship out the remaining incarna stuff, and then get to work on something new. ANYTHING, at this point, just to expand on it..you know, like an expansion. Rather than just shipping out balance changes that really don't require new code to do, but are just stat changes. |
Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
65
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 23:30:00 -
[1010] - Quote
One more thing: An Oculus Rift first person boardroom, so we can sit around the table face-to face and plot and scheme, and throw in upper-body and arm tracking via kinect. |
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Athena Maldoran
Special Nymphs On A Mission
2118
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 23:57:00 -
[1011] - Quote
what they are doing to internett space travel is f****** awsome, and they should not waver from that. But as any true si fi fan, i really want stuff to happen inside the stations and hubs etc. Even if its nothing more than a meeting place between capsuleers and dust mercenaries, we want it. We need a place to interact on a superhuman lvl, even if its just avatars walking and holding hands. CCP, could one person, working 1 year, deliver this to us? |
Flamespar
Woof Club
571
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 03:35:00 -
[1012] - Quote
The way I see it, CCP has two main directions it could go first in regards to Avatar gameplay.
1) Social areas. Think interiors of POS's. These may be simpler for CCP to implement. And really ties into the whole idea of 'giving players a home in space'. 2) Exploration of derelicts. Which sounds more complex to implement and sounds very exciting.
CCP really needs to pick one and implement it to the point where the feature feels complete (not necessarily finished, but at a point where they don't have to come back to it for a while). I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Reiisha
Evolution The Retirement Club
268
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 04:43:00 -
[1013] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Hello again,
I want to say a couple of more things to get us on the same level:
Regarding the extra clothing items that have not been released, there are indeed a large amount of new clothing assets that just require publishing. Team Avatar got some of these out to you already but due to almost 100% of our focus being on prototyping we never got round to releasing them all. We were also waiting on a pricing structure being given to us. However, in saying that I know for a fact that there is talk internally regarding these items going on, so the when/where/how's are unknown to me specifically but I'm pretty sure you will see these items sometime in the future.
So to please us "Barbie lovers" can these finally be published? Like throw us a bone and we'll be quiet for a few months :P (The quote from CCP Reddawn is from over a year ago)
Just quoting this again so it won't be lost. :P
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
571
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 05:24:00 -
[1014] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:
Regarding the extra clothing items that have not been released ....
Just quoting this again so it won't be lost. :P
Personally I am of the opinion that they need to figure out what they want to do with the NeX store, before adding new items to it. Pricing issues aside, as in-game micro transactions stores go its pretty badly done.
The three things they would need to fix - Be able to purchase Aurum ingame. - Add something other than clothes, like ship skins or upgrades to CQ. - Redo the store front, add filters (sex, price range), packs of clothing.
Or get rid of it entirely and allow us to produce these things ingame. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1598
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 06:57:00 -
[1015] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:The way I see it, CCP has two main directions it could go first in regards to Avatar gameplay.
1) Social areas. Think interiors of POS's. These may be simpler for CCP to implement. And really ties into the whole idea of 'giving players a home in space'. 2) Exploration of derelicts. Which sounds more complex to implement and sounds very exciting.
CCP really needs to pick one and implement it to the point where the feature feels complete (not necessarily finished, but at a point where they don't have to come back to it for a while).
That was an early debate, actually. #1 can be done in small incremental steps (one mocap after another), whereas #2 is a massive multithreaded effort which can only be delivered in a single "Jesus feature" stride.
That was so evident that I already pointed that we could tell what was CCP's will to commit to WiS, just waiting to see what they did.
And they took a path that has lead us here, with years of nothingness ahead as avatar technology ages (specially since WoD was detached from it) and we essentially are facing a scenario where any WiS for EVE will have to be done from scratch again.
Now, the chances are slim. Either the dungeon raiding prototype makes it to the "new space" 3 year plan, or WiS is dead to all meaningful accounts, as it's unlikely that they take a "small steps" approach at this point.
What's good? CCP Seagull has got a background in live action role playing, and so at least someone at the decission making should get why avatars are relevant to EVE's long term appeal. What's bad? Currently there's no Executive Producer for EVE and this means that EVE development is on autopilot at a point where CCP already is late to make necessary iterations to key systems like SOV. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Calathorn Virpio
Golden Construction Inc. Legacy Rising
266
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 07:22:00 -
[1016] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote: To be fair, there was a lot of stuff at 2012 FanFest that was almost universally seen as a very good thing. For example, those images of ships showing damage/disintegrating instead of just current "poof, gone" ship death. Or the new drone UI that was shown as a quick mock-up. I don't think there's anyone out there that wouldn't want those, and a bunch of other stuff shown as well.
I get that the outlook can change, but how much did it change really? If the team had time to add the new jumpgates and the new jump effect, both of which are purely 100% cosmetic, why not add that stuff shown at the last FanFest instead of leaving it to be vaporware? As far as FanFests go, as often as not the stuff shown just never materializes, and the stuff that does get done was not even mentioned at the previous FanFests. Was the new jump effect and jumpgates mentioned last FanFest? I honestly don't remember. But there's a lot of stuff that was mentioned that never came to be.
I know it's cynical, but watching 2013 FanFest coverage, I was mentally slapping myself every 5 minutes to remind me that based on previous experience anything I see is vaporware until proven otherwise.
This is ever the danger of showing someone something shiny. Part of Fanfest is really us showing you very cool stuff that we're trying out. Our tech art guys showed some awesome stuff they've been trying out with DX11 but always with the caveat that its not necessarily going to appear on a development roadmap soon. Some things are just easier than others and others rely on technology we need to migrate too. Then a lot of things, for example the drone UI depend on what teams decide to focus on. That they didn't happen doesn't mean they will never happen and showing stuff typically doesn't mean its ready for release even if it looks amazing.
shiny? where's the shiny?
ccan i play with it? blow it up? gank it? steal it?
(reaction from last years AND this years fanfest at the stuff shown)
sadly, doubt any of the COOL stuff will make it in, just balancing stuff and touch ups like the APOC BRING BACK THE JUKEBOX
more shenanigans plz
SEXY |
Flamespar
Woof Club
571
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 07:26:00 -
[1017] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: What's good? CCP Seagull has got a background in live action role playing, and so at least someone at the decission making should get why avatars are relevant to EVE's long term appeal. What's bad? Currently there's no Executive Producer for EVE and this means that EVE development is on autopilot at a point where CCP already is late to make necessary iterations to key systems like SOV.
Your post reminded me of my misspent years of LARP pretending to be a werewolf.
I'm totes scary. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1371
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 08:58:00 -
[1018] - Quote
It's like 5A.M. I'm bored. Came up with an idea. Like most ideas birthed at this hour, it sounds totally genius to the person who created it, but totally dumb to everyone else lol. In any case, not sure if anybody came up with something similar before, but here goes: What if WiS played like Eve?
What if instead of WASD and all that, you clicked to move. Right click or do whatever to get behind cover. See an enemy? Right click, aim, choose firing type (suppressive/covering: takes no time to lock/aim and you just shoot in the general direction, careful: takes a second to lock/aim but shoots actually have a good chance of hitting, etc etc).
But what if no one moves from behind cover? Make all the cover destructible. Engineer the layouts so flanking is a common tactic. Put up terminals around the station that activate formerly deactivated defenses and things like that.
Can't imagine how this would play? Well then, may I redirect you towards a little game, lost to the depths of time, called Full Spectrum Warrior. Maybe WIS wouldn't play exactly like that, but I think you get what I'm envisioning after watching that.
In any case, how would this be relevant to Eve? First and foremost, the obvious thing to do is make it part exploration. Scan the station down, suit up, explore. If you bettter loot, you'll have to go to a lower sec. Second, introduce weapons and armor that can be manufactured by other players obviously.
Third, introduce a new ship class that would essentially be, for all intents and purposes really, really mini versions of supercarriers in that they carry clone bays so if you die in a station, you can respawn at the ship and go right back in. The downside is that, obviously, due to their size, they could only carry a limited number of clones and players. For the huge, huge stations, you would, in theory, benefit from having a few of these on an excursion. You could land at one of these stations with a regular ship, but the idea is you would pretty much have to leave whatever ship you brought with you outside while you went in and handled your business. And, if you died, you would have to respawn the normal way. With this new ship class, it solves both those problems. Maybe give it a ton of tank, but very limited offensive capabilities so if pirates show up, it gives the excursion crew a chance to get to the ship and escape and/or wait for backup or whatever.
I don't really want to exclude the solo player, but I'm not sure how to handle this. Maybe create an even smaller ship class with a different kind of clone bay that allows an extremely small number of respawns like 1-2 or something like that. That way if someone ambushes you in the station or something, you'll be back in your ship and you can hightail it out of these.
Now, we all know PvP is a major part of the game (Captain Obvious over here...) so, to help encourage it, make it so these abandoned stations and new ships are relatively easy to track down. For instance, if you send some probes out and they pick up the signature of the station, they would also pick up the signature of one of these new ships parked outside which means you can round up some buddies before you go in and cause some chaos.
I've also been thinking about how to make this relevant to anyone who also cares about DUST. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they mentioned at fanfest they were thinking about doing something with the clones you get in that game. Well, what if you needed the type of clones produced in DUST to explore one of these stations in Eve? Give it some dumb lore reason too lol. Whatever works. That way, any corp (be it in DUST or Eve) can essentially make money from the exploration industry without actually exploring. They just sell the things that help fuel a section of that industry.
I dunno, just a dumb idea I came up with. Probably full of holes to pick through, but just wanted to know what other people thought just for the sake of discussion I guess. Respect is earned, not given. |
Harry Forever
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:17:00 -
[1019] - Quote
can you add stuff like this please -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=231688&find=unread OMG! the asteroid is depleted! |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1362
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 13:36:00 -
[1020] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:An idea.
Not so sure about the point and click idea. I don't think it would feel real enough. As for the clone ship, that is a cool idea. So long as people can still board the abandoned structures using a normal ship (no respawns). People often quote how capsuleer tech is not the same as the dust tech but do you really think the most powerful beings in the universe couldn't get hold of some for themselves? That's more far fetched than the alternative. I know if I were a capsuleer I would want some those dust clones/implants for any time I had to spend away from my ship. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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Kazur Nemic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 01:14:00 -
[1021] - Quote
Just quoting this cause, reason I stayed playing Eve Online this time is becuase of captian's quarters, and I know some of my friends would play if there was Walking in Stations.
Veronica Aurilen wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote: ..................Incarna launch was a mess. True. Not because of WiS itself, but because it was a perfect storm from three fronts - Incarna failing to deliver content, NEX store, and the infamous letter. This resulted in the "atomic bomb hit" effect you mentioned.....................................
..................They NEED to push past "spaceships and spreadsheets" image that has been attached to EVE like a fig leaf for a decade now. No amount of new spaceships or space mechanics will bring new people in, or make those who tried EVE and quit come back. Anyone who wanted to play internet spaceships is already playing internet spaceships.................. But adding a whole new dimension to the game by way of meaningful avatar gameplay will turn this game into a full-fledges sci-fi sim, and population is very likely to jump.
Now, a lot of people are REALLY against "barbies in space". And I totally get that. But how can it be a bad thing if the game suddenly attracted hundreds of thousands of new people with this "barbies in space" content? No matter who these new people are, would adding a few hundred thousand new people to the game possibly be a bad thing?
Now, you could argue that "barbies in space" may not attract anyone at all. To that I say, extremely unlikely. Why? Simple. What is the best-selling PC game of all time? WoW? Call of Duty? Nope, it's The Sims series! Between the three games, the series sold around 50 million copies. Sims 2 alone sold over 20 million copies. There IS a market for this kind of stuff.
Bottom line, I feel the last two years PROVED, beyond any reasonable doubt, that as far as "internet spaceships" go, EVE has peaked. No amount of additional internet spaceship content will make this game move forward. It will either continue to stagnate, or it'll crash and burn if sufficiently strong competition appears. ..........They need to diversify.
.......... what if Star Citizen, for example, is a hit and delivers just enough MMO-like stuff (persistent world and character), and has vastly superior physics and combat mechanics? Can you look me square in the monocle and say this will not affect EVE's population one iota? What if Elite is a similar hit? What if Blizzard's next MMO is set in a sci-fi universe.........................
See where I'm heading with this? It's good to stay in the bomb shelter and play it safe. Until the food runs out. And then you starve to death.
+10000 this pretty much sums it up. I like flying in space and the depth of eve but to much of eve is focused on brackets and text walls. I can deal with that cause it enables the games depth which i love. BUT !!! i need more to keep me interested year after year. Incarna/WIS can be the enabler to add the visual immersion that is lacking in eve. I see the eve trailers which show a more graphical and visual side to eve and im like why cant eve be more like that ????. Let me sit in a station bar, and watch the jita undock from a big window (with a zoomed in view so i can see the explosions), make the ships bigger so we dont just play with red and purple dots all the time), let me meet with my corpmates in a meeting room, let me play poker, let me store the heads of a selection of my pvp victims in a tank in my CQ, let me watch a television screen in bar/CQ that presents what is happening in sov space, high sec and low sec in the form of a tv news show. and ultimately give me some WIS/exploration pvp/pve combat content. I want more visual / immersive content and less text walls !! (but NO dumbing down) by all means continue to fix FIS (it is important) but dont think that everyone in 2011 wanted you to dump WIS. We were just mad (and rightfully so) cause u released incarna with no content, introduced the nex store and PTW on horizon and then saw the hilmar letter/internal newsletter. Keeping the depth but adding a more visual/immersive FIS & WIS is the future of Eve. (DUST is not EVE. U need to give EVE more resources, its survival just could be at stake) AND the future needs to start happening now!
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Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1480
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 00:18:00 -
[1022] - Quote
Kazur Nemic wrote:I know some of my friends would play if there was Walking in Stations.
I know a good few friends who found it stupid that there was only one room. They got so excited when they saw the graphics in the CQ, and were so disappointed when I told them that was all there was to their Avatar. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
944
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 00:34:00 -
[1023] - Quote
I have some friends who like to get drunk and drive dirt bikes. I have other friends who like to read books and do puzzles.
Nobody gives a **** what your friends think. |
Aragoni
Aliastra Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 00:41:00 -
[1024] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:[Or get rid of it entirely and allow us to produce these things ingame.
This. Microtransactions in a subbased game is the worst thing ever. |
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
35
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 01:19:00 -
[1025] - Quote
Aragoni wrote:Flamespar wrote:[Or get rid of it entirely and allow us to produce these things ingame. This. Microtransactions in a subbased game is the worst thing ever.
Ever played SWtoR? They totally kill this game with microtransations. Most new content is just fancy stuff to buy from their mt store and, boy, THEY are expansive!
However in Eve I would love to see at least some work on WiS, no matter if it means some more microtransactions or not. At least Eve has an open market and you can sell stuff you dont want anymore. In SWtoR all your crap is bound to character, so all your investments are basically gone the moment you use them.
The ideas for exploration in abandoned wrecks are really nice. With all the fuzz about Star Citizen its probably about time to expand for Eve. Although I dont believe this kickstarter indie game will be any real competition for Eve. Yay 10 years! :D |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
762
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 08:22:00 -
[1026] - Quote
I think CCP is far too scared to raise their heads from the bunker at this point. I hope that I'm wrong and that one day we'll get some actual new content from them again but, I'm not holding my breath. The focus on fixing longstanding problems, re-visiting parts of the game that hadn't been touched in years, refactoring old code and other under the hood work has benefited Eve greatly. There's no doubt about that. But, those aren't the kinds of things that get people excited, that draw in new players, that generate buzz.
I kept playing back when I was newish and frustrated with the complexity of the game in part because of the promise that one day we'd be able to get out of our ships and interact with others in different ways. From the days when I read articles on gaming websites about what was then called Ambulation, through Torfi showing off a demo of what was then known as Walking in Stations at Fanfest, I was excited about the future of Eve. I couldn't wait to see what would happen next. Then came the crash and burn that was the Incarna/Nex Store release and CCP's subsequent decision to hunker down in the bunker and play it safe.
After all the talk of focusing on spaceships, no new "Jesus features", the disbanding of Team Avatar and the like, I've pretty much given up on the CQ door ever opening.
Oh well...I guess at least we got the industry's most advanced forum portrait generator to show for all this, huh? What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:01:00 -
[1027] - Quote
Remove subscriptions from the game.
Dramatically expand NEX store. More clothes, CQ decor, CQ minigame tables (with up to 4 guests), ship decals and paint skins, etc.
Change NEX store to real money basis a la Dota 2 and TF2 stores.
Re-price PLEX at $15 to make up for not being able to convert to AUR and the removal of long-term discounted subs.
PLEX still adds 30 days of gametime, but buying stuff from the NEX store in $10 increments does too, with a handy UI bauble that says "next license extension in $x.xx"
PLEX price falls due to increased supply, but "pay your way with ISK" pilots are now missing out on the "free" swag that "subscribers" get. Everybody gets lots of neat "cash shop" swag.
Sort of radical but I'm drunk. |
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:03:00 -
[1028] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:But, those aren't the kinds of things that get people excited, that draw in new players, that generate buzz.
Retribution brought in a LOT of new players actually. Something like 30% of the playerbase was rookies. |
Lina Thamaris
New Eden Publishing
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 09:22:00 -
[1029] - Quote
I'm thrilled to hear that avatars will get more gameplay. I love having a human face in a sci-fi game. After all, science fiction isn't about spaceships and lasers, it's about the how future technology changes the human experience. The more avatar interaction we get, the better. If I only could, I would probably spend 75% of my time in avatar mode and only 25% in ship mode. So yes, please do bring new gameplay -- your suggestions sound exciting. :-) |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1482
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 10:08:00 -
[1030] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote: Nobody gives a **** what your friends think.
Just like no one gives a **** what you think. 0/10 "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
65
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 11:26:00 -
[1031] - Quote
Someone was kind enough to post the prototype footage (here) and I have to say, looking beyond the unpolished state, that is genius!
Can you imagine it with dark atomospheric lighting, sparks and smoke making every innocent shadow appear to be a murderous rival player, all the while in fear of what will happen to your unguarded ship tethered outside and if you'll even find that big score?
How anyone would rather sit for hours gate camping or belt mining and demand CCP focus more on those features over something like this I'll never know.
(A thousand) +1 for anything that increases immersion, and a thousand more for something that does it so well, good show Team Avatar, I tip my hat to you. Ring Mining Proposal |
floating in space
University of Caille Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:05:00 -
[1032] - Quote
NeX store should contain items which enable sandbox station stuff. Like for instance a deed or licence for a station shop (which they have to pay rent on) or a temporary license to attack another player. The player that loses is sent to the medical ward and gets a debuff or something. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1482
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 12:14:00 -
[1033] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote:Someone was kind enough to post the prototype footage ( here) and I have to say, looking beyond the unpolished state, that is genius!
The prototype actually starts at about 9.10 for anyone who is interested.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1934
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:12:00 -
[1034] - Quote
Drachiel wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:But, those aren't the kinds of things that get people excited, that draw in new players, that generate buzz. Retribution brought in a LOT of new players actually. Something like 30% of the playerbase was rookies alts.
Edited for truth. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
1148
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 13:44:00 -
[1035] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote:Someone was kind enough to post the prototype footage ( here) and I have to say, looking beyond the unpolished state, that is genius! Can you imagine it with dark atomospheric lighting, sparks and smoke making every innocent shadow appear to be a murderous rival player, all the while in fear of what will happen to your unguarded ship tethered outside and if you'll even find that big score? How anyone would rather sit for hours gate camping or belt mining and demand CCP focus more on those features over something like this I'll never know. (A thousand) +1 for anything that increases immersion, and a thousand more for something that does it so well, good show Team Avatar, I tip my hat to you.
To be honest, as it was shown in that demo, the gameplay still looks ridiculously boring and repetitive. Like much of EVE's other gameplay. Walking around dark corridors looking for stuff? Really? Are we back in 1998 now? Graphics aren't everything. I have no doubt CCP will be able to make this look graphically very attractive. But if the gameplay feels weak, and controls are awkward (and based on CQ controls, they will be), it won't make this an interesting thing to do. I'm sure most of us will try it, get bored within 30 mins and never go there again, same as we did with CQ. Unless of course they make it insanely profitable.
You also pointed out one of the potential flaws with the system. Where, if you dock, someone can uncloak and blow your ship to smithereens with impunity. Granted, there's been MMOs that have done boarding mechanics reasonably well. For example, Pirates of the Burning Sea (2008) had a boarding feature where you and your crew could board the enemy ship and duke it out with the enemy crew and captain. As in, you didn't have to sink the ship if you could kill the captain. The ship during boarding remained vulnerable. But unlike EVE, that game featured line of sight mechanics. That is, an enemy's buddy couldn't shoot through his buddy's ship to hit you. So, you could smartly position yourself on the other side of the enemy, and use the enemy's body to shield yourself from his friends while you board. And because big ships couldn't turn on a time, and wind affected where and how fast they could sail, it was a skill-intensive tactical element. If you were good at avatar combat, you could use this to your advantage and maybe win 2v1 fights that would be impossible with ship-to-ship combat alone. But frankly I can't see the same mechanics applying in EVE, not without implementing some serious changes to the game, including line of sight checks and the rest of the features.
Not finding the big score? Another problem. Why risk your ship by going inside a hulk, not knowing if it'll pay off at all, if you could just grind rats for a guaranteed X ISK ticks?
Anyway, I feel overall, the demo they showed so far was pretty weak. And, realistically, even if they started developing it right now, we probably won't see this for another year or two. And by then, we're looking at 2014 and 2015, where Star Citizen and Elite are probably out, next Blizzard MMO is already announced and everyone is salivating over it, etc., etc. The longer they wait with this, the less impressive it'll be by the time they finally do it. Look at Darkfall, when it was announced it looked pretty good and sounded darn amazing, but by the time they finally squeezed it out, it was graphically outdated and features no longer all that impressive either. Same thing could happen here. Let's face it, wandering around corridors picking up boxes and opening doors isn't exactly new gameplay - technically, all that existed in 1992 with Wolfenstein 3D. So what will CCP do to make it unique and worth it? And not something people will try for a single afternoon and then shrug it off and never touch it again. |
Lina Thamaris
New Eden Publishing
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 08:35:00 -
[1036] - Quote
All of the items in this list are completely irrelevant compared to being able to walk in stations. Tweaking the current gameplay experience is nice... giving us a whole new dimension to EVE is groundbreaking!
Unforgiven Storm wrote:CCP Unifex wrote: (...)
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond. After
- you give us a new login system where I can change chars in the same account without the need to login again
- you gives a new and improved POS (POS revamp)
- you fix sov
- you fix the black ops and electronic attack ships
- you find a proper role for titans and supers in the battle field
- you finished the ships tiercide (including caps)
- you give us all the remaining ships (including caps) with the shader v3 skins
- you allow us to fly customized painted ships
- You replace the ugliest ships in this game with new hulls
- you give us a new overview, local, chats and industry UI, you fix the inventory windows
- You fix null-sec industry
- you fix moon mining
- you improve invention and manufacturing mechanics;
- you give alliances the proper tools to tax corps, mining and moon mining, get rent money from (blue) POS in their space
- you give alliances, corps and players tools to make military , trade, ratting, mining, moon mining agreements (a.k.a treaties)
- you give us more t3 ships
- you give us more end-of-game contents for vets like achievements, more skills, more caps like carriers T2
- you fix/improve more and more visual effects
- you make mining fun (I can dream right?)
- and you fix the problems that **** of PI dudes now for 2 years and maybe throw them a couple more skills to train
you go right ahead, give us the avatars and station walking, until then, this please ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
Lina Thamaris
New Eden Publishing
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 08:53:00 -
[1037] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:Think about it this way: after an atomic bomb hit, you do not run outside of your bunker when only one hour have passed , you sit and take your time. So CCP is doing pretty much this, they sit and take their time. And they don't just sit on their asses doing nothing they are fixing things that were broken for ages. What I saw at "CCP presents" was that when Hilmar asked about the door, people said yes and not just few people a ton of people and then some. Now CCP knows that there is not just two and a half of a person that do want WiS. Probably they will start thinking about it more. We know that summer expansion will be Odyssey, winter will hopefully be POSes and 0.0 revisit and then there is not long till fanfest 2014. Where even more people will say "hell yes, open that damn door already". So in the end of 2014 or early 2015 we could see more WiS content. (that of course if CCP won't screw up something completely cause there is always a big chance of that) See. that's an excellent point. But this stagnation leads to problems of its own. Incarna launch was a mess. True. Not because of WiS itself, but because it was a perfect storm from three fronts - Incarna failing to deliver content, NEX store, and the infamous letter. This resulted in the "atomic bomb hit" effect you mentioned. However, since then CCP stayed away from anything WiS. The last two years have been virtually 100% FiS. And what happened? Did the game grow? Well, yes and no. Total number of subs climbed past 500k, which is good. The bad part is, the PCU record hasn't been broken in over two years. This, to me, suggests that the new accounts are alts, and the actual number of actual people out there in the game hasn't grown. Arguably, it shrunk. Or at the very least, as PCU records show, the game never recovered to pre-Incarna Incursion expansion levels. My point is, CCP can continue to do what they've been doing for the past 2 years. And they continue to do what they've been doing for 8 years before that. And the end result will be the same - the game will continue to stagnate. All the FiS development they did, all the improvements to the new player experience, all that still failed to bring in more people. Or if it did bring some, the amount is fairly negligible. They NEED to push past "spaceships and spreadsheets" image that has been attached to EVE like a fig leaf for a decade now. No amount of new spaceships or space mechanics will bring new people in, or make those who tried EVE and quit come back. Anyone who wanted to play internet spaceships is already playing internet spaceships. Adding more internet spaceships won't add more people. But adding a whole new dimension to the game by way of meaningful avatar gameplay will turn this game into a full-fledges sci-fi sim, and population is very likely to jump. Now, a lot of people are REALLY against "barbies in space". And I totally get that. But how can it be a bad thing if the game suddenly attracted hundreds of thousands of new people with this "barbies in space" content? No matter who these new people are, would adding a few hundred thousand new people to the game possibly be a bad thing? Now, you could argue that "barbies in space" may not attract anyone at all. To that I say, extremely unlikely. Why? Simple. What is the best-selling PC game of all time? WoW? Call of Duty? Nope, it's The Sims series! Between the three games, the series sold around 50 million copies. Sims 2 alone sold over 20 million copies. There IS a market for this kind of stuff. Bottom line, I feel the last two years PROVED, beyond any reasonable doubt, that as far as "internet spaceships" go, EVE has peaked. No amount of additional internet spaceship content will make this game move forward. It will either continue to stagnate, or it'll crash and burn if sufficiently strong competition appears. Those are the only two possible outcomes if they stick to the current internet-spaceships-only development plan. They need to diversify. Now, I'm going to just say some more totally-off-the-wall stuff, so just ignore that if this kind of thing bothers you. But consider this - what if Star Citizen, for example, is a hit and delivers just enough MMO-like stuff (persistent world and character), and has vastly superior physics and combat mechanics? Can you look me square in the monocle and say this will not affect EVE's population one iota? What if Elite is a similar hit? What if Blizzard's next MMO is set in a sci-fi universe (e.g. Starcraft)? What if it is a sandbox, not a themepark? I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally plan to try out both Star Citizen and Elite when they come out. And while I'm doing that, I won't be playing EVE. See where I'm heading with this? It's good to stay in the bomb shelter and play it safe. Until the food runs out. And then you starve to death.
Word! |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1487
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 12:02:00 -
[1038] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:To be honest, as it was shown in that demo, the gameplay still looks ridiculously boring and repetitive. Like much of EVE's other gameplay. Walking around dark corridors looking for stuff? Really? Are we back in 1998 now? Graphics aren't everything. I have no doubt CCP will be able to make this look graphically very attractive. But if the gameplay feels weak, and controls are awkward (and based on CQ controls, they will be), it won't make this an interesting thing to do. I'm sure most of us will try it, get bored within 30 mins and never go there again, same as we did with CQ. Unless of course they make it insanely profitable.
Lots of people like that kind of gameplay. If you have never played Deadspace I would recommend it. It's pretty similar, and frankly its amazing. Not to mention a massive hit.
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:You also pointed out one of the potential flaws with the system. Where, if you dock, someone can uncloak and blow your ship to smithereens with impunity.
That's not a flaw. That is emergent gameplay at it's most extreme.
"Open Converstation" Me; We have your ship, pay a toll and leave immediately or face being stranded in deap space. Them; What's the toll? Me; 100m. Them; **** you man! My ship isn't worth that! Me: You clone might be, and your time probably is. If I don't receive the payment before your next comment, your ship dies and we come in after you. Them; ******* ********* Me; Your ship said goodbye. We'll see you inside.
It would be epic.
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Anyway, I feel overall, the demo they showed so far was pretty weak. And, realistically, even if they started developing it right now, we probably won't see this for another year or two. And by then, we're looking at 2014 and 2015, where Star Citizen and Elite are probably out, next Blizzard MMO is already announced and everyone is salivating over it, etc., etc. The longer they wait with this, the less impressive it'll be by the time they finally do it. Look at Darkfall, when it was announced it looked pretty good and sounded darn amazing, but by the time they finally squeezed it out, it was graphically outdated and features no longer all that impressive either. Same thing could happen here. Let's face it, wandering around corridors picking up boxes and opening doors isn't exactly new gameplay - technically, all that existed in 1992 with Wolfenstein 3D. So what will CCP do to make it unique and worth it? And not something people will try for a single afternoon and then shrug it off and never touch it again.
I couldn't agree less. I very rarely disagree with your deductions but this time, you missed the mark pretty hard. It looks amazing. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Joxxy
Vrane Club
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 13:00:00 -
[1039] - Quote
I would like to see this demo.
Sounds amazing, but I do understand why you are reluctant to focus on this feature.
But thank you for info. Nice to see you are still working on stuff other then ships. |
Eko'mo
Eko Research Institute
24
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 14:50:00 -
[1040] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.
Yes! This. I've tried to explain this to people for years! http://ekolikecrayons.wordpress.com/about/ |
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
502
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 15:26:00 -
[1041] - Quote
It's true that CCP was able to prototype Ambulation to a considerable degree while shipping their game, but that was also during their fire-and-forget days, when they mostly only added new things and never revisited old code. CCP currently seems to be all-hands-on-deck trying to make up for years of that kind of neglect. I'm not surprised that they're short on manpower. I've noticed older, lapsed players coming back, which is good for the game. And, of course, a new PCU record did get set recently.
The punchline is that CCP has been working nonstop on avatar gameplay this whole time, in Atlanta, and what they have is apparently quite advanced. If and when they do bring it to EVE, they'll be able to take advantage of the Atlanta team's work instead of starting with the "prototype" that is currently shipping with EVE. That means that CCP Reykjavik can concentrate on (over)hauling EVE into the current decade, and when they can see the end of that, they can explore avatar gameplay knowing that there's a mature and proven engine available across the pond--not to pretend that integrating it would be trivial, or even easy, but it would almost certainly be easier than starting from scratch. Even if they did that, they could bring people over from Atlanta to help.
I remain hopeful, but I also understand exactly where Unforgiven Storm is coming from. Fixing the game that is actually shipping has to be a priority. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3423
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 23:37:00 -
[1042] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:hahaha another year down
suck on that
keeping paying for and posting about a game that doesn't actually exist
so dumb
People keep posting ideas for "fixing" AFK cloaking. So dumb. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3423
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 23:58:00 -
[1043] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Personally I am of the opinion that they need to figure out what they want to do with the NeX store, before adding new items to it. Pricing issues aside, as in-game micro transactions stores go its pretty badly done.
The Noble Exchange is not a microtransaction store, it is a luxury items store. It's the place you buy stuff to shove your money in other people's faces: "Look, I have a monocle and you don't, peasant!" or "check out my billion ISK diamond-studded leather pants, and all you can afford is denim jeans?"
Flamespar wrote:The three things they would need to fix - Be able to purchase Aurum ingame. - Add something other than clothes, like ship skins or upgrades to CQ. - Redo the store front, add filters (sex, price range), packs of clothing.
Or get rid of it entirely and allow us to produce these things ingame.
So reason why they can't do all four. Redo the NeX so that it's limited to actual Noble Exchange stations, or outposts/POSes where people have installed the Noble Exchange expansion. And it sells item conversions or limited run BPCs, which you then process through POS manufacturing or Planetary Interaction.
As for Aurum, I'd like to be able to trade Aurum between my characters in EVE and DUST, for a start.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3423
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 00:05:00 -
[1044] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:So to please us "Barbie lovers" can these finally be published? Like throw us a bone and we'll be quiet for a few months :P (The quote from CCP Reddawn is from over a year ago)
CCP karkur is apparently picking up the pieces of Incarna that were left on the cutting room floor. So at least we know that the remaining clothing for the NeX and perhaps the sleeve tattoos are on someone's "to do" list. I'll just wait for news of progress from CCP karkur & friends.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1513
|
Posted - 2013.06.08 20:07:00 -
[1045] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote: CCP karkur is apparently picking up the pieces of Incarna that were left on the cutting room floor. So at least we know that the remaining clothing for the NeX and perhaps the sleeve tattoos are on someone's "to do" list. I'll just wait for news of progress from CCP karkur & friends.
I hope so. Do you have any links/sources for that info?
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
2305
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 22:24:00 -
[1046] - Quote
hmmmm, not sure that's entirely true. I'm very interested in getting those clothes and assets into the game, and have had some conversations with people about it, but I wouldn't really say it's on my "to do" list, at least not yet :) CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Pony Express | @CCP karkur |
|
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1792
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 00:43:00 -
[1047] - Quote
maybe you could find old earth jeans in relic sites? or a cowboy hat? eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
2410
|
Posted - 2013.06.11 20:03:00 -
[1048] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:hmmmm, not sure that's entirely true. I'm very interested in getting those clothes and assets into the game, and have had some conversations with people about it, but I wouldn't really say it's on my "to do" list, at least not yet :)
Don't worry, if they look down on you as the "Incarna gurl" and you start finding that someone took all the pudding before your turn at the cantina, we can borrow you a spot at the Greater Fool bar. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Ghazu
597
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 17:22:00 -
[1049] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:So to please us "Barbie lovers" can these finally be published? Like throw us a bone and we'll be quiet for a few months :P (The quote from CCP Reddawn is from over a year ago) CCP karkur is apparently picking up the pieces of Incarna that were left on the cutting room floor. So at least we know that the remaining clothing for the NeX and perhaps the sleeve tattoos are on someone's "to do" list. I'll just wait for news of progress from CCP karkur & friends. so pants-crazed making things up. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
2376
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 17:25:00 -
[1050] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:So to please us "Barbie lovers" can these finally be published? Like throw us a bone and we'll be quiet for a few months :P (The quote from CCP Reddawn is from over a year ago) CCP karkur is apparently picking up the pieces of Incarna that were left on the cutting room floor. So at least we know that the remaining clothing for the NeX and perhaps the sleeve tattoos are on someone's "to do" list. I'll just wait for news of progress from CCP karkur & friends. so pants-crazed making things up.
Mara just needed a reason to bump this thread, because CCP isn't going to talk about this stuff until next year.
The headshot from CCP karkur was a nice touch.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
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Diablo Aeglaeca
Diabolos AEGLAECA Dark Empire Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 19:01:00 -
[1051] - Quote
would love to see this prototype implemented into a way to expand on exploration in the game. space is about exploration and not just in ships. besides, this content doesn't have to impact everyone if they are not forced to do it. kind of like how I could care less about a POS revamp because I don't own a POS nor care to either. It's content that I am not against having resources dedicated to, and I recognize that it needs to be done, even though I will not benefit from the work done on them.
the bashers of this topic get really old. they act like this will ruin their game mechanics or something or impact them in a way that would be negative or unavoidable. I just chalk that up to a certain crowd being overly vocal on something that really could go ignored. this prototype can be implemented slowly over time in stages just like everything else in the game. I just wish CCP would do it already.
do it or don't do it, either way. when someone else does, like others have mentioned, I'll be playing that game, not EVE. |
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
490
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 19:08:00 -
[1052] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:hmmmm, not sure that's entirely true. I'm very interested in getting those clothes and assets into the game, and have had some conversations with people about it, but I wouldn't really say it's on my "to do" list, at least not yet :)
What would it take to put it on your "to-do" list. Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
165
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 19:09:00 -
[1053] - Quote
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:Kind of like how I could care less about a POS revamp because I don't own a POS nor care to either. It's content that I am not against having resources dedicated to, and I recognize that it needs to be done, even though I will not benefit from the work done on them. This.
I choose to believe what I was PROGRAMMED to believe! |
Ghazu
597
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 19:09:00 -
[1054] - Quote
a certain bunch of vocal dudes want to dress up and emote each other in a pretend space bar and call it gameplay. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
165
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 19:20:00 -
[1055] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:a certain bunch of vocal dudes want to dress up and emote each other in a pretend space bar and call it gameplay. A certain bunch of vocal dudes want to sit mining rocks for hours on end and call it industry, a certain bunch of vocal dudes want to explore a universe of spewing cans and call it exploration, a certain bunch of vocal dudes want to gank other players flying ships with no offencive capabilities and call it pvp...
EVE's weird like that. But it is an MMO so there should really be a more social aspect. I choose to believe what I was PROGRAMMED to believe! |
Sister Sophia
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 19:36:00 -
[1056] - Quote
ugh. all that typing and it got deleted in the posting. oh well. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
550
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 20:27:00 -
[1057] - Quote
Sister Sophia wrote:ugh. all that typing and it got deleted in the posting. oh well. bottom line: i don't think the spaceships part of the game has been exhausted. there's so much left to do. and i worry that by trying to expand the number of subscriptions, ccp may sacrifice what keeps the loyal players coming back. A game is cool with the kids one year and uncool the next. Once the inevitable crunch comes, there may not be enough of the old core eve left to maintain the game. The investors won't care since they will just move on to invest in the next big project. But this lovely sandbox will be gone. anyway, sorry to sound like a wet blanket. but this is my worry.
Enh, CCP seems to be doing pretty well at bringing lapsed players back. PCU is up consistently now. I'm not worried about that.
If I'm worried about anything, it's the focus on avatar gameplay, which has always been somewhat unfocused in EVE. Take clothing: The reason we customize the features on our avatars and then put clothing on them is to express individuality, to communicate. Who are we communicating with, and how? Well, mostly forum-dwellers, through our portraits. That hardly counts. I mean, Dersen could be nude from the waist down, or he could be wearing ~$1,000 jeans~, and no one would be the wiser. So while I would like more clothing options--not necessarily in the NeX store, either, because I wouldn't shed a tear if AURUM died in a fire--that's a side effect of my wanting a reason to have those options communicate something in game. You know, the whole idea that you go on an MMO to be social? That. If CCP ships their exploration-style avatar gameplay, and puts us all in lookalike hazmat suits, guess what? Clothing is still pointless, even with avatar gameplay. You have to have interaction between avatars as they currently are before anything beyond the current levels of customization make any sense at all.
Right now, ship customization makes a lot more sense as an option, because you won't see Dersen in game. You'll see his ship, his pod, or his sexy, sexy corpse--unclothed, genericized, and Ken-dolled, but nevertheless. I doubt we'll see anything like it until CCP gets the "brain in a box" project completed, but at least it would add something to the game that is currently shipping. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
1960
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 20:43:00 -
[1058] - Quote
I still say CCP should judge the interest of the player base for various forms of avatar based play by asking them. With a poll. That will help separate the rage due to "Greed is good" from that of a weak expansion. With that information, allocating development resources can be based on data, not guesswork derived form events over two years old.
As for Barbie, I do not want Barbie. I want this. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Khira Kitamatsu
630
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 20:54:00 -
[1059] - Quote
I think CCP should start small. Allow players to open lounges, corp offices, and maybe clothing and accessories stores. Surely this can be done and is not over doing it. Then after that - expand it further. Maybe allow for player ran gaming casinos. Be cool to drop a few ISK into a slot machine. :)
Add EVA derelict ship game play - take exploration to the next level. Even add FPS type game play on ships we board. Be so cool to be able to board a ship and take it - instead of just blowing it to bits. Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Sister Sophia
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2013.06.12 21:07:00 -
[1060] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Who are we communicating with, and how? Well, mostly forum-dwellers, through our portraits. That hardly counts. I mean, Dersen could be nude from the waist down, or he could be wearing ~$1,000 jeans~, and no one would be the wiser. ... You know, the whole idea that you go on an MMO to be social? That. If CCP ships their exploration-style avatar gameplay, and puts us all in lookalike hazmat suits, guess what? Clothing is still pointless, even with avatar gameplay.
Interesting. So you're looking to include status symbols. Other MMOs have wizards running around in fancy robes. And I suppose it might be nice from one point of view to have us running around in fancy admiral suits in like a casino or whatever.
From my point of view there is already a status-measure in EVE: the killboard. You can be sure I behave differently in system towards players depending on what I see. Monocles and grim scowls on avatars don't seem to bother me much.
Anyway, that's cool. Honestly to each his own. It's a sandbox and we all play differently. |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
611
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 00:27:00 -
[1061] - Quote
I think it's time that CCP starts talking about a roadmap to get the exploration with avatars gameplay into the game. Maybe start with allowing players to invite others to their cq as a technology preview/beta, then move onto interior environments as part of the pos revamp, then the exploration stuff.
I guess the point is, it doesn't have to happen all at once, but some movement and a sense of direction would be nice. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperium Aeternam Phantom Armada
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 18:15:00 -
[1062] - Quote
gonna make a copy paste of something i replied in the suggestion forum:
i have some concepts about it:
1. allow us to see the inside of our ships:
this would mean a complete designing of every ship in the game, something really big, specially for titans, now, when in space we cannot do this, cause we have to keep piloting the ship, we cannot go out of the capsule while inside the ship. so it would be locked to see the inside and outside of the ship while docked. maybe allow us to ask for repairs or allow us to repair ourselves the damages in the ship via repair tool kits and that stuff.
2. station interiors:
outside of the CQ we could have a main hall where we could interact with other players, every service in the station would have its own room in the structure, maybe requiring to use elevators and that stuff, agents would have their own rooms and offices so we could go and ask mission directly with them.
3. player owned stores:
another type of "POS", inside stations or maybe in space structures (habitational modules?, anyone?), these could serve as a mean for players to put products on the market, and as places to buy things form it too, so i can see these little locals on the stations and players putting their own shops in them, some of them for vanity items, some others for character equipment (i'll explain it later) and those intended to ships would just show holographic catalogs of the modules (cause we cannot just put the turrets of a BS inside the station).
4. player equipment:
pretty much like what was done with DUST514, capsuleers could use their own equipment, clothes then would act as the first example of it, players could buy suits for different functionas and use a configuration like those of the drop suit.
5. ruins and hacking structures:
while some sites in space would require just the modules used by the ship, players sometimes would get into exploration sites which require to get into the playe in order to retrieve important objects, these ruins and hacking structures (sleeper buildings for example) would require to be force opened using the ship equipment, and after being opened, players would be able to get into them, this would mean the ship would have to dock in the structures, several players could dock in these sites, and explore the place, maybe you would find another explorer which doesnt want to share the rewards so it becomes a matter of killing or getting killed inside the structure.
6. planet interaction, REAL interaction:
right now the method used for planet interaction is lame, why?, well its just a new view with a game of putting structures and connecting them. this new way would shake the whole system. first, implementing a new structure the planet terminal, this orbital structure would allow players to dock their ships and use a shuttle or elevator to get down on the planet, while making seamless transitions between planet and space would be interesting, i dont think the server could deal with that, so it would be instanced.
instead of putting the structures while in orbit, players would be able to organize the management with their feet in the planet surface, via a new planet interface, which would use a map of the current region, new structures could be added, so players could build not only structures for industry, but this could open the door for player housing, planetary vehicles and real planet warfare, now its not only for a bunch of districts, it's also for the whole control of the planet resources, while capsuleer wouldnt be the ones doing it, it would be the DUST514 players acting as the planet militia.
using vehicles, players would be able to explore and scan the best places to build outposts and cities, certain planets, like those in high sec, those who have cities, would require empire permisions and taxes for being used in industry, maybe players would have to pay an isk fine for buying an apartment in Dam Torsad for example, or how about visiting the city of Caille, have you ever wondered how's to walk in the planet Pator?, this could be a possibility.
vehicles would have the same system as those used by DUST also.
7. starbases and outpost: they would have a system similar to those of the stations too.
8. character combat:
dont want to risk your ship in a duel?, but you want to actually ***** slap that guy?, well it should be possible, extending the dueling system for having fights with other players in the station, you died?, who cares, you have a clone for it. use the fists or get a weapon for it, a gentlemens duel, 10 steps and bang with your gun. this could also be extended for FWs, rats and other stuff, how about fighting some angels when trying to hack their outpost in the inside?, hey, this structure is infested with drones, looks like i'll need to take a gun for this.
(it continues) |
Silivar Karkun
Imperium Aeternam Phantom Armada
38
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 18:16:00 -
[1063] - Quote
9. interacting with your professions:
-manufacturers could explore and manage their own production lines in the factory, maybe allow them to see the production of the ships
-mission runners could explore certain mission structures for certain missions, they would also be able to talk with the agents and of course, certain mission would require infiltrating and killing criminals inside these places.
- pirates and criminals could use their structures as traps for unwary travellers, hey the guy docked right?, well you kill him there and get the pass to the ship room, he's travelling on a planet without escort?, too late, give me your isk or else, you know what?, you have a clone for it, bang! >:)
-miners could put their feet on huge asteroids and plant structures there, more convenient than leaving the strip miners all day, maybe revamping the whole moon mining system, its not about a gigantic laser anymore, you have to build an actual base there.
-factional warfarers could fight for the space structures in enemy territory, your ihub is in danger, grab your guns and a suit, the enemy breached the structure defenses and are leaking inside.
-explorers would be able to breach certain sites and use equipment for analisis and hacking, maybe you'll have to fight some things inside before doing anything, maybe the security system requires a password to open certain places.
-marketeers would be able to use isk to buy their own stores, put their things to sell in them and players could go and trade there, maybe you could see the price of the others and start changing your prices.
10. a new approach to the CQ:
allow us to improve the size of it, not just a room with a television, how about having an actual apartment, with a good bed, a library to see the skill books i have completed to learn, maybe i could invite other players to my humble room, put some items i get in my space travels. allow me to use a computer or something like that to manage the stations services so i dont have to actually travel (for the lazy players)
11. corporate and alliance meeting places:
corporations could fit and manage the appearance of their offices in the stations, allow players to interact with the sov structures inside them.
12. companions?:
for security, as vanity things, i dunno, but have for example, drones that protect you while in a planet, or how about having an slaver hound as pet. you got some militants in a mission? what about contracting them to serve you?, exotic dancers?, pay them for a nice show in your CQ. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperium Aeternam Phantom Armada
40
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 19:02:00 -
[1064] - Quote
13. EVE and DUST in the same place:
right now we only interact via chat channels and orbital bombardment, but with the planet system we could allow DUST players to live in the same places as capsuleer, we could chat and interact with mercenaries in the same planets. and allow mercs to own properties and buy things for their main halls while out of service.
the next installment would be allow mercenaries to go to space structures, using the planet terminals and other players to ferry them to stations, maybe have a new NPC service for quick travel between stations, since mercs cannot manage a station, or allow them to be fighter pilots? so they travel in their fighters as both planet and space mercenaries.
this way capsuleers and mercenaries would be able to have direct meetings in the corporate and alliance offices and sov structures, mercs would be able to buy the same stuff as capsuleers, and maybe one day, CCP could fuse both games, and then capsuleers and mercs could use the same vehicles, suits, and equipment. so we could interact and kill each other on the same universe. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1517
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 19:55:00 -
[1065] - Quote
Too ambitious. It would take many years of dedicated development to do half of that stuff. You might want to keep your suggestions a little more realistic for the time being. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
171
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 19:59:00 -
[1066] - Quote
Avatar gameplay is full of amazing ideas and potential but seems to be held back by resources, practicality and people 'demanding' other things take priority. Why can't we take baby steps though, small easy additions each expansion that won't annoy some players and would give those that like the avatar stuff something?
But no, if it doesn't make high isk/hr, involve pvp or alliances and null sec then most (vocal) players don't care or support it. Sigh... poor EVE Online, they treat you like a one trick pony or a sitcom character endlessly repeating the same tired catchphrase for years, but you want to be more than that, don't you, a fully rounded individual with depth and character, and when you try they slap you across the face and shout "No! Just say the catchphrase again, that's all we care about."
But back to Team Avatar's prototype of exploring derelicts and ruins, that would be a great feature and something that I can't remember seeing in any other games or mmos. I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums. |
Ghazu
597
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 20:14:00 -
[1067] - Quote
problem is the frivolous useless requests. http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
Silivar Karkun
Imperium Aeternam Phantom Armada
42
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 20:24:00 -
[1068] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote:Avatar gameplay is full of amazing ideas and potential but seems to be held back by resources, practicality and people 'demanding' other things take priority. Why can't we take baby steps though, small easy additions each expansion that won't annoy some players and would give those that like the avatar stuff something?
But no, if it doesn't make high isk/hr, involve pvp or alliances and null sec then most (vocal) players don't care or support it. Sigh... poor EVE Online, they treat you like a one trick pony or a sitcom character endlessly repeating the same tired catchphrase for years, but you want to be more than that, don't you, a fully rounded individual with depth and character, and when you try they slap you across the face and shout "No! Just say the catchphrase again, that's all we care about."
But back to Team Avatar's prototype of exploring derelicts and ruins, that would be a great feature and something that I can't remember seeing in any other games or mmos.
^this, the game is getting stagnant in its own content, eventually someone will take the features that EVE has and the content is missing and then people will see that internet spaceships could have been a better game. there's people already saying that Star Citizen for example could take some subscribers out of EVE.
not gonna jump in that bandwagon but i can say that this game is getting in the same problems like WoW, yeah, while Blizzard keeps adding more expansion content they dont fix what they have, same happens in EVE but its the oposite, they keep fixing what they have and dont actually pull enough new content.
navy versions of the battlecruisers, changes in exploration and some new rigs and modules arent enough for an expansion, what was the last time the universe got more systems?, no new real content since Apocrypha came out as some people like to say in this forums.
Incarna came when, like more than 2 years ago?, since then we have seen only spaceship content. what it could have been a good adition to EVE was converted in another different game, yeah, DUST514 should have been part of EVE Online, instead of being a separated game.
now people say "this game shouldnt have been for the PS3, i want a PC version", well, it could have been. but people preferred to keep the content oriented in their lifeless ships instead of the characters who pilot them.
DUST514 have all the content that could've been implemented to WiS, it was just that it could have been applied to capsuleers and extended in some other parts (like in the ideas i proposed). the failure of Incarna was the product of both parties, the playerbase and CCP. but it could have been fixed, now that DUST514 is out, i can only see it possible unless CCP makes a complete new game or a completelly revamp of the whole game, as it was Crucible.....
|
Silivar Karkun
Imperium Aeternam Phantom Armada
43
|
Posted - 2013.06.13 20:49:00 -
[1069] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:problem is the frivolous useless requests.
the immature trolling replies are too ;) |
Ghazu
597
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 07:56:00 -
[1070] - Quote
like durhurrdurr i get off on watching pixel exotic dancers http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984 |
|
HabeousCorpus
BurgerkingTM
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 08:33:00 -
[1071] - Quote
I resubbed to say "so is this EVER happening or what?" |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
523
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 08:58:00 -
[1072] - Quote
This prototype is a decoy; it is far too massive to ever be implemented without eating up all of CCPs resources for at least a year or two (which is of course a no-no) and it is even missing the persistent aspect of a sandbox game (these are instanced battles).
The prototype is for CCP to point at, instead of actually delivering any WiS content at all, even small and trivial stuff. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
space submarine
1
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 09:14:00 -
[1073] - Quote
HabeousCorpus wrote:I resubbed to say "so is this EVER happening or what?"
When/after DUST goes away hopefully CCP uses EVE as a testing ground for WoD stuff. |
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
178
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 11:06:00 -
[1074] - Quote
space submarine wrote:HabeousCorpus wrote:I resubbed to say "so is this EVER happening or what?" When/after DUST goes away hopefully CCP uses EVE as a testing ground for WoD stuff. I thought that Dust was holding steady, with a mild increase in players much like EVE. There always seems to be 5000+ players when I log in to Dust. I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperium Aeternam Phantom Armada
51
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:53:00 -
[1075] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:This prototype is a decoy; it is far too massive to ever be implemented without eating up all of CCPs resources for at least a year or two (which is of course a no-no) and it is even missing the persistent aspect of a sandbox game (these are instanced battles).
The prototype is for CCP to point at, instead of actually delivering any WiS content at all, even small and trivial stuff.
the instanced thing is debatable, but doing seamless transitions for that would mean more server resources, i wouldnt mind for example, landing directly on a planet, with a rifter or condor, maybe a rookie ship or shuttle, but with the current TiDi problems its evident that even the EVE server couldnt handle the work of managing the generation of real planet surfaces (right now they're more like decoration)
but we have instanced content anyways, station environments are already an instance, i can dare to say that solar systems are instanced too, i've never have heard of someone travelling from one system to another directly, without using a gate, jump bridge or jump drive.
so the instanced thing isnt a problem, of course its still too massive to do, but CCP could have done it implementing it by parts, the new character creation system was one, the CQ was another, it could be improved with content each expansion. heck even the planet content would be tied to PI so its no excuse, same for atmospheric flight and spaceship landing.
|
space submarine
18
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 17:48:00 -
[1076] - Quote
Naomi Hale wrote:space submarine wrote:HabeousCorpus wrote:I resubbed to say "so is this EVER happening or what?" When/after DUST goes away hopefully CCP uses EVE as a testing ground for WoD stuff. I thought that Dust was holding steady, with a mild increase in players much like EVE. There always seems to be 5000+ players when I log in to Dust.
It might be, I don't know how many players they need on at one time to make it worth it with the cash shop for DUST.
But whenever they start focusing on the carbon engine (WoD) we might see some progress with ambulation in EVE |
Flamespar
Woof Club
618
|
Posted - 2013.06.17 06:43:00 -
[1077] - Quote
I'd be interested in hearing about those exclusive stations for ten year vets. They'd have to be more than just a new background in which to spin your ship. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Kraxen Antila
Quafe Commandos The Obsidian Front
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 19:31:00 -
[1078] - Quote
Not sure if this is the place, but is there any chance (or way) that the captains quarters will let you offset your avatar as much as you can your ship? i Play on 2 screens, and the CQ is relitivaly useless due to the sad limit of the offset, my avatar falls between the screens no matter what i do, has this ever been brought up? i cant imagine I am the only one. if i osted in the wrong place, i am sorry, if someone can direct me to the proper place, let me know. thank you. |
Noriko Mai
879
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 19:36:00 -
[1079] - Quote
Kraxen Antila wrote:Not sure if this is the place, but is there any chance (or way) that the captains quarters will let you offset your avatar as much as you can your ship? i Play on 2 screens, and the CQ is relitivaly useless due to the sad limit of the offset, my avatar falls between the screens no matter what i do, has this ever been brought up? i cant imagine I am the only one. if i osted in the wrong place, i am sorry, if someone can direct me to the proper place, let me know. thank you. buy a third screen. problem solved |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
583
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 19:41:00 -
[1080] - Quote
Sister Sophia wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Who are we communicating with, and how? Well, mostly forum-dwellers, through our portraits. That hardly counts. I mean, Dersen could be nude from the waist down, or he could be wearing ~$1,000 jeans~, and no one would be the wiser. ... You know, the whole idea that you go on an MMO to be social? That. If CCP ships their exploration-style avatar gameplay, and puts us all in lookalike hazmat suits, guess what? Clothing is still pointless, even with avatar gameplay. Interesting. So you're looking to include status symbols.
No, as expressions of individuality (per the part you snipped out). Dersen has no use for fancy clothing, as shown in his portrait. Someone else might, because sometimes it's important to assert or pretend to a particular status. Clothing is social communication. "I don't give a **** what you think of me, I'm a demigod" is certainly an option.
As I also said, I wouldn't shed a tear if AURUM just disappeared one day, or became the link between EVE's economy and DUST's.
The reference to $1,000 jeans was partly a wink-and-a-nod reference to the Incarna debacle, and mostly just pointing out that portraits are not really a sufficient justification for any kind of clothing.
But hey, if status is important to you, it's true that we all play for different reasons. ;-) I check killboards out of entirely practical considerations. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
|
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2264
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 19:48:00 -
[1081] - Quote
Stop dragging this thread out of the grave.
Let it die, it is old and served its purpose.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Kuronaga
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
153
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 00:48:00 -
[1082] - Quote
I stopped playing shortly after the incarna bomb hit. Not because I was insulted by the idea of it... quite the opposite. I was insulted by the way it under-delivered and corrupted itself into something it shouldn't have been.
Recently I came back, but my attention is already waning... honestly, I need more out of this game than just internet spaceships if its going to hold my attention forever. Good ambulation was the primary thing I wanted for this game. It needs good avatar gameplay to be married with it to make it a "full" game to me.
I know there's plenty of people who feel the same way. I won't get the chance to say this the next time my account lapses for probably another couple of years, so I thought I might as well mention it here where someone might actually get the message. Your market exists, and we're ready when you are. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
618
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 04:36:00 -
[1083] - Quote
Odyssey has been the first expansion in over a year to slightly interest me., not because I personally found the content amazing. But it seems that we are finally on the road to getting new content into the game, rather than endless fixes and tweaks (not that there is anything necessarily wrong with that, its just nice to get something new to do).
I'm looking forward to finally getting out of that room to explore the dark dank interiors of new eden.. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution
1581
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 09:39:00 -
[1084] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Stop dragging this thread out of the grave.
Let it die, it is old and served its purpose.
Although I agree that this thread is old and that everything that needs to be said has already been said. People bring this thing back from the grave from time to time because they want to see it happen. And I empathise. I think maybe they like to hope that having a little activity in here from time to time might make CCP realise people still want this. Although frankly, if CCP are ignorant of the fact still, there probably isn't any hope of them realising it. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2266
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 11:07:00 -
[1085] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:War Kitten wrote:Stop dragging this thread out of the grave.
Let it die, it is old and served its purpose. Although I agree that this thread is old and that everything that needs to be said has already been said. People bring this thing back from the grave from time to time because they want to see it happen. And I empathise. I think maybe they like to hope that having a little activity in here from time to time might make CCP realise people still want this. Although frankly, if CCP are ignorant of the fact still, there probably isn't any hope of them realising it.
The problem with the whole thing is defining what "this" is.
Vague ideas of owning shops and meeting places and mini-games and dress-up dolls is not a feature. There have to be solid ideas with clearly defined bits of gameplay and rewards and risks. I have yet to see anything remotely like that from CCP.
How fun is the captain's quarters right now? It *is* walking in stations.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
358
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 11:48:00 -
[1086] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Vague ideas of owning shops and meeting places and mini-games and dress-up dolls is not a feature.
Were you a hardcore raider in EQII or WoW? Because they hate the RPG in MMORPGs.
EvE's a MMORPG, just like WoW. Bling is what RPG players like.
The odd ones are those who forget to check such details out before playing.
DUST is that way if you don't care about bling. ---> "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
309
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 13:29:00 -
[1087] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:War Kitten wrote:Vague ideas of owning shops and meeting places and mini-games and dress-up dolls is not a feature. Were you a hardcore raider in EQII or WoW? Because they hate the RPG in MMORPGs. EvE's a MMORPG, just like WoW. Bling is what RPG players like. The odd ones are those who forget to check such details out before playing.DUST is that way if you don't care about bling. --->
I hate to admit it - it physically hurts me - but for once I partly agree with our local Blizzard representative, Ace 'WOWie' Uoweme. Although I think it is a bit more complex than 'RPers like fluff'. Some do, some don't.
Here is my thoughts on WiS:
Not everything must be 'meaningful' in the sense of: "Hey, I can shoot you in the face" or even has to be ultra-exciting.
e.g.: You cannot shoot people when they are docked. Now, the other day I was in "The Summit" RPG channel and I just got curious. There were about 10 people talking at the time. So I used a locator agent to see where they are, went into my trusty stealther and checked out the closest 5. One guy was mining. The other four were docked up.
One in Low, one in NPC Null and the rest in HS.
So there seems to be a market for social talk already. And this is just one of many RP Channels.
You might think about RPers whatever you want to. "This is a PVP game..." - Hell, Asgard was a RP-PVP Age of Conan server. Guess what, you could attack anyone anywhere you wanted. Exactly like in EVE. And there was still RP. As intended.
Now if I want to meet five or so people for a card game or just to chit-chat before hitting space again, I wouldn't mind the extra immersion of actually sitting in a bar, facing them. If that bar is owned by another player, fine. I wouldn't mind if I could not shoot him there.
Aside from that many people who are not RPers have problems identifying with being "just a ship". OK, newest option is being either a ship or a virtual prisoner.
Even crappy companies like Cryptic realized that. One of the first things people asked in STO - which was a horrid game in the beginning, while now being a mediocre one at least - was: Hey, why can't I visit my own ship? They put it in real quickly (and made a nice money grab from their mini-store for additional ship interiors, which is something I would not want to see in EVE I guess... But then there are people ok with dressing up their spaceship's outside for money already.). All you can do in STO is beam people on board your ship, walk around, talk.
But that is the human factor some players cherish. And frankly - while I don't need it in EVE for myself - it was more fun to get our Klingons up on the bridge and talk a mission through before we engaged. I got several friend who played STO to try EVE. "How can we meet up somewhere?" - "You can't." They admitted that EVE is the superior game in all other aspects. Except for this. And this little thing made them leave. EVE is not for everyone... I agree.
That said, I'd also - as in: in addition - want stuff like the EVA they said they'll do in about a trillion years or the spy game that will follow up shortly after the sun collapses. Although I don't know - from a 'meaningful & lore' perspective why I as a capsuleer would go onto that relic station. According to lore I have a crew on my ships, too. Let them go, I don't just park a ship in space for no reason. I want all the WiS carrots they showed over the years since... Was it 2008?
I have played for quite some time now and I enjoy the game as it is. I like the spaceships, the PVP, exploration, ... etc. And honestly I don't think WiS will EVER come. Ever... But if it did it wouldn't hurt the experience of a space simulator. Not space ship flight sim, space simulator. I think that was CCPs stated vision. Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE YouTube Vids (most recent): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2alSWxXQbI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEzNNYSlDE |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
360
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 14:46:00 -
[1088] - Quote
Aidan Brooder wrote:I hate to admit it - it physically hurts me - but for once I partly agree with our local Blizzard representative, Ace 'WOWie' Uoweme. Although I think it is a bit more complex than 'RPers like fluff'. Some do, some don't.
If folks continue to just want to live in an oyster oblivious to all around them, they will lose out.
I'm unusual because I'm not a fanboi to any MMO. If I was, I couldn't be unbiased. You need to be unbiased to look at all games and what they do well and what they don't do well. Need to see what can be improved, what can be promoted/scrapped, and willing to face the firestorm in even touching sacred cows to do so (and that includes being point blank with devs too). Because what matters is what is best for the game's growth, not pet interests. Pure and simple it's about a healthy balance.
In games what happens is people who either put more time or money in games want a piece of the pie for themselves. They expect to have the game their way. Whatever justification is used: longevity; they did some hard achievements; they carried more milk to the stall in winter through 30 foot snow drifts. Whatever is used its a bat to get their way. Meanwhile, the idea of trying to balance the game so everyone can have a piece of the pie gets trashed. The result is players polarize and then there's camps. These camps go after each other infighting, fighting for a piece of the game that doesn't have their name stamped on it. Totally ignored are the features that welcome players into the game, as the vets leave disgusted that they didn't get the whole pie.
It's like this in every MMO (or in RL politics). It's old and detrimental for the growth of the game. It's like these people want the game to fail, as they refuse to compromise. Things that need to be smacked down they let pass (as soon as you let PLEX in did you think it would stop there? Bet most did). Things that is needed go on the wayside, as all that matters is what these camps can get out of the game.
Then they just quit one day. Blame it on whatever, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake. Complaining about new players messing up their game (even better if they themselves have concerns), because they're hogging the limelight. Can't mentor them as they have no patience, or if they do mentor, act **** poor yelling, "DO IT MY WAY OR GTFO NUB!!!"
Then they wonder why 1 in 10 even bothers to post on forums? Especially when they're but troll factories?
I'm not the problem. WoW isn't the problem. EvE isn't the problem. "In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
|
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
309
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:42:00 -
[1089] - Quote
Ah, now I feel better...
Quote:If folks continue to just want to live in an oyster oblivious to all around them, they will lose out.
I'm unusual because I'm not a fanboi to any MMO. If I was, I couldn't be unbiased. You need to be unbiased to look at all games and what they do well and what they don't do well. Need to see what can be improved, what can be promoted/scrapped, and willing to face the firestorm in even touching sacred cows to do so (and that includes being point blank with devs too). Because what matters is what is best for the game's growth, not pet interests. Pure and simple it's about a healthy balance.
I think you are biased in another way. You are biased because you think you can apply general rules, which can be applied across the market. And you don't have the knowledge about this game or this community to make that assumption. I play a lot of MMORPGs and other MMO types myself. I find the EVE community quite different from most other communities - as well as the player expectations. So you are biased because you believe in your own opinion too much and won't accept arguments others make. That has a name, I think. And reeks of arrogance.
Quote:In games what happens is people who either put more time or money in games want a piece of the pie for themselves. They expect to have the game their way. Whatever justification is used: longevity; they did some hard achievements; they carried more milk to the stall in winter through 30 foot snow drifts. Whatever is used its a bat to get their way. Meanwhile, the idea of trying to balance the game so everyone can have a piece of the pie gets trashed. The result is players polarize and then there's camps. These camps go after each other infighting, fighting for a piece of the game that doesn't have their name stamped on it. Totally ignored are the features that welcome players into the game, as the vets leave disgusted that they didn't get the whole pie.
Another assumption. What people tried to explain to you is that you can have and get everything that you want, but you must work and fight for it. They have already made the new player experience much easier. But unlike in WOW, where you are taken by the hand and the game just points you at the treasure and the next 5-min quest, in EVE you must set goals for yourself and they are mostly long-term goals. Players that do not have the patience for this are just not made for this game. Also unlike in WOW, if you caught me in the wrong ship or wrong situation, you could shoot me out of the sky. You could scam me, you could hurt me in various ways. In WOW a "Level 3" character could not hope to e.g. even hit my Druid. Which took me all of 2 weeks to get to level 80 back when 80 was maximum level. At a very leisurely pace.
Quote:It's like this in every MMO (or in RL politics). It's old and detrimental for the growth of the game. It's like these people want the game to fail, as they refuse to compromise. Things that need to be smacked down they let pass (as soon as you let PLEX in did you think it would stop there? Bet most did). Things that is needed go on the wayside, as all that matters is what these camps can get out of the game.
On that we can agree, I was actually very much against PLEX back when they were introduced, as were many others. On the other hand it dealt nicely with many of the more obvious Real Money traders or Goldfarmers. Let me try to explain to you what this is in your WOW terms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dkkf5NEIo0
And I say that even though I can PLEX my char and alts if I want to. But no one forces other people to buy PLEX for RL money and sell them on the market. If no one buys them from CCP for RL money, none are on the market, simple.
Quote:Then they just quit one day. Blame it on whatever, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake. Complaining about new players messing up their game (even better if they themselves have concerns), because they're hogging the limelight. Can't mentor them as they have no patience, or if they do mentor, act **** poor yelling, "DO IT MY WAY OR GTFO NUB!!!"
What I read in the answers to most posts you made so far is that people don't think your way works. They thought the same about the very early Goonswarm and a lot of other people. Just prove them wrong. Me included. But don't ask for the game to be bended into something it is not, has never been and will never be.
CCP is doing rather well with EVE actually. It has a slow, steady, rising number of subscriptions over the years. You cannot compare them to Blizzard. I actually wrote a long article about Blizzard's success once. I'm actually impressed by Michael Morhaime's & Co's success. But they are not the meter by which to judge every other game with an MMORPG tag. Almost all the WOW clones failed. So what does us tell this? It is not good to try to emulate them. It is better to find a niche that attracts another kind of player.
Back to WiS: WiS is a different story because there is a large number of players in the game already who want it. It is a feature that CCP has promised for a long time, but all we see is various experiments. I realize and believe what they said in the beginning of this thread is true: They just cannot afford it at the moment. I don't believe they will for the next few years. Or perhaps they will never be able to.
What I don't like is: Why then post so many carrots? "We have tried this, we have tried that... Look, this is the promenade of a station. Read in this blog article how there will be player-owned pubs, shops, lalala... EVA suits... tralala"
Then the next one posts: "Yeah, but we cannot do it."
They should not do that. People like the game without WiS and it is not fair to pretend that it will come sometime. Because new players don't yet know what: "Soon TM" means. ;) Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE YouTube Vids (most recent): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2alSWxXQbI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEzNNYSlDE |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
2514
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 20:19:00 -
[1090] - Quote
Aidan Brooder wrote:Ace Uoweme wrote:War Kitten wrote:Vague ideas of owning shops and meeting places and mini-games and dress-up dolls is not a feature. Were you a hardcore raider in EQII or WoW? Because they hate the RPG in MMORPGs. EvE's a MMORPG, just like WoW. Bling is what RPG players like. The odd ones are those who forget to check such details out before playing.DUST is that way if you don't care about bling. ---> I hate to admit it - it physically hurts me - but for once I partly agree with our local Blizzard representative, Ace 'WOWie' Uoweme. Although I think it is a bit more complex than 'RPers like fluff'. Some do, some don't. Here is my thoughts on WiS: Not everything must be 'meaningful' in the sense of: "Hey, I can shoot you in the face" or even has to be ultra-exciting. e.g.: You cannot shoot people when they are docked. Now, the other day I was in "The Summit" RPG channel and I just got curious. There were about 10 people talking at the time. So I used a locator agent to see where they are, went into my trusty stealther and checked out the closest 5. One guy was mining. The other four were docked up. One in Low, one in NPC Null and the rest in HS. So there seems to be a market for social talk already. And this is just one of many RP Channels. You might think about RPers whatever you want to. "This is a PVP game..." - Hell, Asgard was a RP-PVP Age of Conan server. Guess what, you could attack anyone anywhere you wanted. Exactly like in EVE. And there was still RP. As intended. Now if I want to meet five or so people for a card game or just to chit-chat before hitting space again, I wouldn't mind the extra immersion of actually sitting in a bar, facing them. If that bar is owned by another player, fine. I wouldn't mind if I could not shoot him there. Aside from that many people who are not RPers have problems identifying with being "just a ship". OK, newest option is being either a ship or a virtual prisoner. Even crappy companies like Cryptic realized that. One of the first things people asked in STO - which was a horrid game in the beginning, while now being a mediocre one at least - was: Hey, why can't I visit my own ship? They put it in real quickly (and made a nice money grab from their mini-store for additional ship interiors, which is something I would not want to see in EVE I guess... But then there are people ok with dressing up their spaceship's outside for money already.). All you can do in STO is beam people on board your ship, walk around, talk. But that is the human factor some players cherish. And frankly - while I don't need it in EVE for myself - it was more fun to get our Klingons up on the bridge and talk a mission through before we engaged. I got several friends who played STO to try EVE. "How can we meet up somewhere?" - "You can't." They admitted that EVE is the superior game in all other aspects. Except for this. And this little thing made them leave. EVE is not for everyone... I agree. That said, I'd also - as in: in addition - want stuff like the EVA they said they'll do in about a trillion years or the spy game that will follow up shortly after the sun collapses. Although I don't know - from a 'meaningful & lore' perspective why I as a capsuleer would go onto that relic station. According to lore I have a crew on my ships, too. Let them go, I don't just park a ship in space for no reason. I want all the WiS carrots they showed over the years since... Was it 2008? I have played for quite some time now and I enjoy the game as it is. I like the spaceships, the PVP, exploration, ... etc. And honestly I don't think WiS will EVER come. Ever... But if it did it wouldn't hurt the experience of a space simulator. Not space ship flight sim, space simulator. I think that was CCPs stated vision.
Well, after the time since Incarna, there are few WiSers around. CCP is not developing it, has taken steps opposed to develop it, and even their plans to maybe develop it are not what people who wanted WiS expected from WiS.
I don't expect WiS to become real. And even if it does, it will not be what I want. I've carved my own little niche ~again~ and will stick with it until CCP kicks me out (they will, as they intend to iterate mining according to people who doesn't mines, much as WiS EVA was prototyped according to people who didn't want WiS and exploration has been iterated according to people who didn't explored). The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
621
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 11:23:00 -
[1091] - Quote
You know I was thinking. A lot of environmental assets are being build for dust (including interiors), and I wonder what the potential is to use these in EVE. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1307
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 13:41:00 -
[1092] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:You know I was thinking. A lot of environmental assets are being build for dust (including interiors), and I wonder what the potential is to use these in EVE.
3D modeling is the easiest part of adding assets, what takes a lot of time is texturing/lighting/animation/SFX, and that work is platform-specific. So you can import a 3D geometry form DUST and that's only 20% of the job, you still must do 80% of the job to add it to EVE so all in all you aren't saving much time by reusing 3D assets from another game. CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
335
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 14:37:00 -
[1093] - Quote
Actually, what I'd really like to see is e.g. the current skeleton, thus flexibility of our CQ prisoners. If a DEV could provide that in some mini-blog, it would be kewl... or scary.
Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE YouTube Vids (most recent): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2alSWxXQbI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEzNNYSlDE |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2318
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 16:18:00 -
[1094] - Quote
Ace Uoweme wrote:War Kitten wrote:Vague ideas of owning shops and meeting places and mini-games and dress-up dolls is not a feature. Were you a hardcore raider in EQII or WoW? Because they hate the RPG in MMORPGs. EvE's a MMORPG, just like WoW. Bling is what RPG players like. The odd ones are those who forget to check such details out before playing.DUST is that way if you don't care about bling. --->
You missed my point, and whether I raided in EQII or WoW (didn't) has no bearing on EVE.
I don't begrudge role players their trinkets and costumes and paintjobs. Heck, I'd like some custom paint for my ships, and wouldn't mind a better wardrobe selection. I played D&D growing up just like every other self-respecting geek.
What I'm saying is there isn't any plan other than vague ideas and wishful thinking. There's never been any roadmap to follow, no list of features to look forward to, nothing. All they gave us were some pretty tech demos, a lot of talk about ideas, and people ran with their own imaginations. Computer games don't run on imagination. Someone has to program in all the things.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution
1583
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 16:39:00 -
[1095] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Computer games don't run on imagination. Someone has to program in all the things.
As a professional programmer, I disagree. Programs really are the product of our imagination. Programming is like starting with next to nothing and then making whatever you want or dream of with that nothing. I know it requires a lot of hard work, and the bigger the code for a client gets the more work it requires to add or expand on it. But at the heart of it, it all runs on equal parts imagination and determination.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Kordus Aelar
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 17:05:00 -
[1096] - Quote
what people are missing, when it comes to the RP discussion is this:
You are all RPers. In THIS game.
EVE is quite frankly the Ultimate RP MMO. even people who despise "RP", are, through the course of their gameplay, RPing. and U Ain't Even Know It.
no, I'm not talking about the pseudo-RP in other MMOs, sitting around in a Tavern typing /emotes all day. I mean moving, fighting, earning, living, in a living, breathing world where your actions have meaningful impact.
pretty much everyone, from denizens of the Intergalactic Summit forum, to the random hi-sec miner, to the most vicious, ruthless pirate, to even the staunchest anti-carebear Nullsec PVPer, is really playing a Role, in *this* game. The way the game is designed, and particularly the Politics of Corps and Alliances make it so.
that is one of the things, to me, that makes EVE so brilliant. and thats why I keep coming back to it, time and time again. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
338
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 17:09:00 -
[1097] - Quote
Kordus Aelar wrote:what people are missing, when it comes to the RP discussion is this:
You are all RPers. In THIS game.
EVE is quite frankly the Ultimate RP MMO. even people who despise "RP", are, through the course of their gameplay, RPing. and U Ain't Even Know It.
no, I'm not talking about the pseudo-RP in other MMOs, sitting around in a Tavern typing /emotes all day. I mean moving, fighting, earning, living, in a living, breathing world where your actions have meaningful impact.
pretty much everyone, from denizens of the Intergalactic Summit forum, to the random hi-sec miner, to the most vicious, ruthless pirate, to even the staunchest anti-carebear Nullsec PVPer, is really playing a Role, in *this* game. The way the game is designed, and particularly the Politics of Corps and Alliances make it so.
that is one of the things, to me, that makes EVE so brilliant. and thats why I keep coming back to it, time and time again.
Hey, at least ONE PERSON sharing my views on it!!! :) Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE YouTube Vids (most recent): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2alSWxXQbI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEzNNYSlDE |
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:21:00 -
[1098] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:You know I was thinking. A lot of environmental assets are being build for dust (including interiors), and I wonder what the potential is to use these in EVE. 3D modeling is the easiest part of adding assets, what takes a lot of time is texturing/lighting/animation/SFX, and that work is platform-specific. So you can import a 3D geometry form DUST and that's only 20% of the job, you still must do 80% of the job to add it to EVE so all in all you aren't saving much time by reusing 3D assets from another game.
Uh. No.
I do this for a living. Everything but lighting is a pretty seamless and painless import/export on virtually all asset pipelines. In fact, that's exactly why you've seen this boom in middleware with engines like unity, epic's unreal engine going indie friendly, etc.
Textures are literally bitmaps. Shaders are written once for an engine and reused endlessly by filling those texture channels. Sound effects are the most copy/paste friendly assets in the whole of game development.
Animation is done on a handful of applications that have standardized file types which are then used by specialized importers on a per-platform basis. If you've animated a space dude running once, there is very little to keep you from using that same dataset on a mac, and a PC, and a console, and an iphone.
In fact, its EXTREMELY rare in this day and age that separate staff handles modelling and texturing at all. Most studios require a modeller to also be a competant texture artist, most of the time including generation and retop from high to low res models and getting all of the diffuse/spec/normal/whatever exotic stuff your angine uses finished before it ships to the animation and rigging guys, and in most cases large studios tend to only pick up people that can do all three for character assets, and at the very least modelling/texturing skillsets for environments.
I don't know where you're getting your information, but it is absolutely false. You actually can just use assets from DUST and skip 80% of the work if those assets are artistically appropriate in their new context In the case of Space hulks vesus planet battles, the judgement may very well be that they are not. |
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 18:29:00 -
[1099] - Quote
I keep double posting because the quote and edit buttons are so close to each other, lol |
Flamespar
Woof Club
622
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 05:15:00 -
[1100] - Quote
You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?
I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1309
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 06:46:00 -
[1101] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?
I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet.
That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died?
Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people... CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2529
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 07:23:00 -
[1102] - Quote
Necro alert. IB4L.
This is the oldest thread ever.
Open door or no more talkie talkie.
|
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution
1585
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 13:40:00 -
[1103] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?
I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet. That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died? Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people...
Okay, first off... Indiana Jones is awesome. Seriously.
Also, capsuleers don't need crews. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2016
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 15:24:00 -
[1104] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?
I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet. That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died? Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people... Okay, first off... Indiana Jones is awesome. Seriously. Also, capsuleers don't need crews. Actually, we do, and by lore there is a crew in all ships bigger than a shuttle.
When the wreck diving feature was under consideration there were three options for who went in: A crew member (being directed by you), a soft clone of you, or yourself. Only in the last option would you be unable to fight your ship if you got attacked. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution
1585
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 15:59:00 -
[1105] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Arduemont wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?
I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet. That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died? Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people... Okay, first off... Indiana Jones is awesome. Seriously. Also, capsuleers don't need crews. Actually, we do, and by lore there is a crew in all ships bigger than a shuttle. When the wreck diving feature was under consideration there were three options for who went in: A crew member (being directed by you), a soft clone of you, or yourself. Only in the last option would you be unable to fight your ship if you got attacked.
Sources for all the above? The wiki is contradictory about whether crews are required for a capsuleer. There is a minimum crew page that states minimum crew members for capsuleer ships. However, the lore and fiction are full of examples of capsuleers flying without crew. From the Eve wiki;
"pod pilot heroes flying on the side of the Caldari during the twilight years of the Gallente-Caldari War, executing manoeuvres unthinkable to those encumbered with a crew complement and the bothersome necessity of using vocal commands and hand-eye coordination to steer their vessels."
In Templar One, our Gallente Hero flies the Mordus dreadnought, which he sacrifices to save others because it has no crew to speak of. During The Empyrean age, a number of capsuleers travel back and forth, completely alone (ie, without crew), in frigates and stealth bombers, to the drone hive that houses the antidote to the broker's affliction.
As for the wreck diving prototypers considering anything other than capsuleers going in person... Well, I can't see any evidence of that. It would destroy any element of risk. Risk is good for gameplay in Eve. The whole game is ultimately designed on that premise.
"players move through our abandoned structures with their fitted Extra-Vehicular Activity suit, using their wits, tools and teammates to deal with the hazardous environment."
"Right now weGÇÖre thinking that these abandoned structures are so dangerous, radioactive and toxic, that they can only be entered with special suits."
"Robot electronics would toast, thus only teams using gear that involves crude electronics, like found in EM resistant military hardware can go in and recover the technology that lies within."
Looks to me like you have to go in person. Remote access is not available. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trading InJita
Trading In Jita
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:36:00 -
[1106] - Quote
The only gameplay involving an avatar that I want is with a titan. Stop trying to turn my game about internet spaceships into ******* hello kitty online. |
RAP ACTION HERO
185
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:49:00 -
[1107] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Arduemont wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:You know what annoys me the most about the locked door?
I am an explorer, and beyond the door is a side of New Eden I haven't seen yet. That's because the latest B-plans were that you had to leave the station, fly to a site, then leave your pod and your ship and your crew behind and then get shot in the face by someone who arrived earlier. Failing that, you get to find a treasure chest with blingies inside and call it a day in case nobody shot your ship down while you were away playing Indiana Jones like an idiot. And all meanwhile your crew (3,000 guys in case you fly BS) just played cards and watched TV as their almighty capsuleer got shot in the face. It so much makes so much sense that my sense-o-meter is out of scale -or maybe the battery died? Because, you know, there's nothing meaningful enough in opening a door and meeting people... Okay, first off... Indiana Jones is awesome. Seriously. Also, capsuleers don't need crews. Actually, we do, and by lore there is a crew in all ships bigger than a shuttle. When the wreck diving feature was under consideration there were three options for who went in: A crew member (being directed by you), a soft clone of you, or yourself. Only in the last option would you be unable to fight your ship if you got attacked. oh please don't impose anything remotely risky, i just want to emote with a bunch of dudes vitoc erryday |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2016
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:55:00 -
[1108] - Quote
Crew in ships:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines
What enters the exploration site:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1569956#post1569956
"We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way)
Here are some:
1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site. 2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar. 3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones." http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
357
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 16:59:00 -
[1109] - Quote
Trading InJita wrote:The only gameplay involving an avatar that I want is with a titan. Stop trying to turn my game about internet spaceships into ******* hello kitty online.
Judging by your name you never get out of station anyway... So why bother about spaceships? Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE YouTube Vids (most recent): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2alSWxXQbI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEzNNYSlDE |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
357
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:03:00 -
[1110] - Quote
I'd not send myself or a clone... It wouldn't make any sense. I'm a capsuleer, not a freaking space station ninja. That is where I think many thoughts go wrong. If I check my skill list, I don't see a single skill in there that makes me some kind of super-fighting machine in close combat. I pilot ships. DUSTies kill people up close and personal, but I'm not a DUSTy.
Also, if enemies are on that station, it doesn't even account for the fact that a battleship could send in a hundred while a frigate could send in much fewer crew to fight for the site. Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE YouTube Vids (most recent): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2alSWxXQbI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEzNNYSlDE |
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2016
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:06:00 -
[1111] - Quote
The only reasons I can see for having pod pilots go in is the environment in there is complex and dangerous. The mind of a pod pilot is required to deal with the complexity, and the ability to clone is needed to deal with the danger.
But I can see the lore modified as needed for all the options the Devs gave. What would we want in the way of game play and in terms of actions have consequences? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
357
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:14:00 -
[1112] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The only reasons I can see for having pod pilots go in is the environment in there is complex and dangerous. The mind of a pod pilot is required to deal with the complexity, and the ability to clone is needed to deal with the danger.
But I can see the lore modified as needed for all the options the Devs gave. What would we want in the way of game play and in terms of actions have consequences?
Then obviously the development should rather be one that allows us to carry DUSTies on board our ships. A good reason to hire some of them into the corp then, because atm I don't see any reason for it.
They are dangerous, they like to fight man-to-man, they have clones... Why make a capsuleer something he clearly is not?
Meanwhile, give us some social zones! ;) There is nothing more meaningful than my virtual beer when I hit a station! Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE YouTube Vids (most recent): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2alSWxXQbI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEzNNYSlDE |
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution
1586
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 17:36:00 -
[1113] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:What enters the exploration site: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1569956#post1569956"We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way) Here are some: 1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site. 2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar. 3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones."
Well found. I concede.
Except on the crew thing. Official lore is riddled with examples that contradict that one wiki article. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4346
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 18:41:00 -
[1114] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:What enters the exploration site: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1569956#post1569956"We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way) Here are some: 1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site. 2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar. 3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones." Well found. I concede. Except on the crew thing. Official lore is riddled with examples that contradict that one wiki article. Keep in mind that with the introduction of DUST a lot of what was impossible in the original lore has evolved into a new current in game reality.
Implants that allow transference without a POD being present for example (although a suitable clone storage facility needs to be in range, perhaps a module similar to a clone bay could be developed to fit to any ship doing exploration? It could carry a very limited number of "exploration class" clones... or even a rig I suppose.) To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2016
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 19:33:00 -
[1115] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Arduemont wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:What enters the exploration site: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1569956#post1569956"We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way) Here are some: 1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site. 2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar. 3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones." Well found. I concede. Except on the crew thing. Official lore is riddled with examples that contradict that one wiki article. Keep in mind that with the introduction of DUST a lot of what was impossible in the original lore has evolved into a new current in game reality. Implants that allow transference without a POD being present for example (although a suitable clone storage facility needs to be in range, perhaps a module similar to a clone bay could be developed to fit to any ship doing exploration? It could carry a very limited number of "exploration class" clones... or even a rig I suppose.) I found many other examples where a Dev talked about there being a crew. I just linked one. As far as I know every time a dev answered a ship crew question, he said that ships have crew.
Also note that I can be in CQ and clone jump. No pod needed. That implies either the process is supposed to be more involved, just not shown, or its an easy process that can be done most anywhere. The latter option makes the idea of "soft clones" more palatable, and fits with what we actually see in game. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4346
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 20:00:00 -
[1116] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Arduemont wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:What enters the exploration site: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1569956#post1569956"We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way) Here are some: 1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site. 2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar. 3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones." Well found. I concede. Except on the crew thing. Official lore is riddled with examples that contradict that one wiki article. Keep in mind that with the introduction of DUST a lot of what was impossible in the original lore has evolved into a new current in game reality. Implants that allow transference without a POD being present for example (although a suitable clone storage facility needs to be in range, perhaps a module similar to a clone bay could be developed to fit to any ship doing exploration? It could carry a very limited number of "exploration class" clones... or even a rig I suppose.) I found many other examples where a Dev talked about there being a crew. I just linked one. As far as I know every time a dev answered a ship crew question, he said that ships have crew. Also note that I can be in CQ and clone jump. No pod needed. That implies either the process is supposed to be more involved, just not shown, or its an easy process that can be done most anywhere. The latter option makes the idea of "soft clones" more palatable, and fits with what we actually see in game. I always supposed that clone jumping from a station involved a trip to the on board cloning facility, as opposed to happening straight from our CQ. It would likely be required trip if stations became avatar friendly. Somewhat like the facility we see in the new intro movie.
I had always assumed that long distance transmission of one's conciousness involved some fairly heavy bandwidth with a very stable data link (such as could be housed in your pod or in a station clone facility)... while short range transmissions (from planet surface to your command ship in orbit) could be done with the new sleeper based implant that the DUST mercs use.
The latter has obvious applications for a clone designed for exploration, as you'd have a ship nearby. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1311
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 20:34:00 -
[1117] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:What enters the exploration site: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1569956#post1569956"We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way) Here are some: 1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site. 2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar. 3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones." Well found. I concede. Except on the crew thing. Official lore is riddled with examples that contradict that one wiki article.
You got your lore wrong. I remember at least two chronicles where capsuleer crews are key.
All these lives are fit to ruin. (A capsuleer investigates a survivor of the destruction of his ship and crew)
Prosopagnosia. (A capsuleer plays wicked games with his crew.)
That said, I already suggested the concept of drone clones (1, 2) as a sensible, EVE-ish way to enable hazardous activities within the canonical lore. CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
841
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 21:02:00 -
[1118] - Quote
Trading InJita wrote:The only gameplay involving an avatar that I want is with a titan. Stop trying to turn my game about internet spaceships into ******* hello kitty online.
Unlike the other posters that actually add something to the discussion, you should delete yourself AND your main in shame. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
365
|
Posted - 2013.07.09 22:13:00 -
[1119] - Quote
Bump for FINALLY getting the sleeve tattoo's in game, only took a year or so after they were done to get them thrown in the game. *sigh* One day, I'd like to actually have a use for my avatar, don't dictate what we do with it, just give us tools to use, be it common areas, or dungeons to explore in. Just,,...I dunno, do SOMETHING. It feels like we've gone 2 years without an expansion. |
Deborah Bat-Zeev
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
21
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 09:50:00 -
[1120] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:You got your lore wrong. I remember at least two chronicles where capsuleer crews are key. All these lives are fit to ruin. (A capsuleer investigates a survivor of the destruction of his ship and crew)Prosopagnosia. (A capsuleer plays wicked games with his crew.)
The lore may say so to further illustrate CCP's sociopathic and socialdarwinistic hardcore Randian teabagger ideology, but as long as there's not a single hint in-game that there are actually other people on your ship crews can be considered non-existing.
|
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2017
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 12:48:00 -
[1121] - Quote
Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:You got your lore wrong. I remember at least two chronicles where capsuleer crews are key. All these lives are fit to ruin. (A capsuleer investigates a survivor of the destruction of his ship and crew)Prosopagnosia. (A capsuleer plays wicked games with his crew.) The lore may say so to further illustrate CCP's sociopathic and socialdarwinistic hardcore Randian teabagger ideology, but as long as there's not a single hint in-game that there are actually other people on your ship crews can be considered non-existing. There is. In the new player experience one of the first things said to the new player is "You are the ship's captain, you issue orders and your crew carries them out", or something like that. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution
1587
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 13:31:00 -
[1122] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:You got your lore wrong. I remember at least two chronicles where capsuleer crews are key. All these lives are fit to ruin. (A capsuleer investigates a survivor of the destruction of his ship and crew)Prosopagnosia. (A capsuleer plays wicked games with his crew.) The lore may say so to further illustrate CCP's sociopathic and socialdarwinistic hardcore Randian teabagger ideology, but as long as there's not a single hint in-game that there are actually other people on your ship crews can be considered non-existing. There is. In the new player experience one of the first things said to the new player is "You are the ship's captain, you issue orders and your crew carries them out", or something like that.
There isn't really a great deal of point arguing this over when the devs and lore keepers clearly haven't made up their collective minds. The lore says both, and because this is a fictional universe they can both be right. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1315
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 13:44:00 -
[1123] - Quote
Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:You got your lore wrong. I remember at least two chronicles where capsuleer crews are key. All these lives are fit to ruin. (A capsuleer investigates a survivor of the destruction of his ship and crew)Prosopagnosia. (A capsuleer plays wicked games with his crew.) The lore may say so to further illustrate CCP's sociopathic and socialdarwinistic hardcore Randian teabagger ideology, but as long as there's not a single hint in-game that there are actually other people on your ship crews can be considered non-existing.
Also there aren't clues that we have a power source in our ships, but then the capacitor wouldn't refill itself, would it? CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution
1588
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 13:47:00 -
[1124] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:You got your lore wrong. I remember at least two chronicles where capsuleer crews are key. All these lives are fit to ruin. (A capsuleer investigates a survivor of the destruction of his ship and crew)Prosopagnosia. (A capsuleer plays wicked games with his crew.) The lore may say so to further illustrate CCP's sociopathic and socialdarwinistic hardcore Randian teabagger ideology, but as long as there's not a single hint in-game that there are actually other people on your ship crews can be considered non-existing. Also there aren't clues that we have a power source in our ships, but then the capacitor wouldn't refill itself, would it?
Actually, I hate to say it, but the fact that the capacitor refills is a clue.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
64
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 16:39:00 -
[1125] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:You got your lore wrong. I remember at least two chronicles where capsuleer crews are key. All these lives are fit to ruin. (A capsuleer investigates a survivor of the destruction of his ship and crew)Prosopagnosia. (A capsuleer plays wicked games with his crew.) The lore may say so to further illustrate CCP's sociopathic and socialdarwinistic hardcore Randian teabagger ideology, but as long as there's not a single hint in-game that there are actually other people on your ship crews can be considered non-existing. There is. In the new player experience one of the first things said to the new player is "You are the ship's captain, you issue orders and your crew carries them out", or something like that. There isn't really a great deal of point arguing this over when the devs and lore keepers clearly haven't made up their collective minds. The lore says both, and because this is a fictional universe they can both be right.
Actually, dev lore keepers made up their minds click. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1315
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 20:00:00 -
[1126] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Arduemont wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:You got your lore wrong. I remember at least two chronicles where capsuleer crews are key. All these lives are fit to ruin. (A capsuleer investigates a survivor of the destruction of his ship and crew)Prosopagnosia. (A capsuleer plays wicked games with his crew.) The lore may say so to further illustrate CCP's sociopathic and socialdarwinistic hardcore Randian teabagger ideology, but as long as there's not a single hint in-game that there are actually other people on your ship crews can be considered non-existing. There is. In the new player experience one of the first things said to the new player is "You are the ship's captain, you issue orders and your crew carries them out", or something like that. There isn't really a great deal of point arguing this over when the devs and lore keepers clearly haven't made up their collective minds. The lore says both, and because this is a fictional universe they can both be right. Actually, dev lore keepers made up their minds click.
Takes a Eterne torpedo to the waterline and crewless ship goes down fast... CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
843
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 21:31:00 -
[1127] - Quote
There are little windows in every ship, with interior light and if you look closely enough you can see the crew moving around in there. Just need to stare at the screen for a few hours. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Flamespar
Woof Club
624
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 02:57:00 -
[1128] - Quote
I used to be able to open the door of my captains quarters
then I took an arrow to the knee I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
RAP ACTION HERO
185
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 04:23:00 -
[1129] - Quote
i used to post tired memes
but then i am a barbie lover. vitoc erryday |
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution
1588
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 13:25:00 -
[1130] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Arduemont wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:You got your lore wrong. I remember at least two chronicles where capsuleer crews are key. All these lives are fit to ruin. (A capsuleer investigates a survivor of the destruction of his ship and crew)Prosopagnosia. (A capsuleer plays wicked games with his crew.) The lore may say so to further illustrate CCP's sociopathic and socialdarwinistic hardcore Randian teabagger ideology, but as long as there's not a single hint in-game that there are actually other people on your ship crews can be considered non-existing. There is. In the new player experience one of the first things said to the new player is "You are the ship's captain, you issue orders and your crew carries them out", or something like that. There isn't really a great deal of point arguing this over when the devs and lore keepers clearly haven't made up their collective minds. The lore says both, and because this is a fictional universe they can both be right. Actually, dev lore keepers made up their minds click.
Fair play, I concede again. This hasn't been a good page for me. They may need to release some corrected editions of their books and change a few entries in the Evelopedia though..
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Broker Agent
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 13:26:00 -
[1131] - Quote
Arduemont wrote: I concede.
Are you sure your really from the internet?
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2018
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 21:27:00 -
[1132] - Quote
Everyone interested in getting CCP to add some avatar related content, see the crowd sourcing thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=257924&find=unread
and add your suggestion to it. Use keywords like "Avatar" "WIS" "Incarna". http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1319
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 22:14:00 -
[1133] - Quote
I suggest some coordinated effort to push a few features in the "easy" range.
FAI, copy & paste all or any of the following:
Suggestion: Deliver all apparel available as market tabs but not at NEx store/market Keywords: Avatars, character creator
Suggestion: Deliver publicly the apparel that remains unused after being handed exclusively to FW LP stores Keywords: Avatars, character creator
Suggestion: Additional make up and hair colors for the portrait maker Keywords: Avatars, character creator Note: blue/violet colors and fantasy hair dye colors (sherry red, lemon yellow, electric blue...)
Suggestion: Additional body poses/stances for the portrait maker Keywords: Avatars, character creator
Suggestion: Additional backgrounds for the portrait maker Keywords: Avatars, character creator Note: would like backgrounds suggesting large open spaces and bright backgrounds compatible with intense lighting
Suggestion: Implement a web 3D viewer of the full body avatar at the forums Keywords: Avatars, character creator, web
More to come tomorrow... CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
RAP ACTION HERO
186
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:40:00 -
[1134] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:I suggest some coordinated effort to push a few features in the "easy" range. FAI, copy & paste all or any of the following: Suggestion: Deliver all apparel available as market tabs but not at NEx store/market Keywords: Avatars, character creator Suggestion: Deliver publicly the apparel that remains unused after being handed exclusively to FW LP stores Keywords: Avatars, character creator Suggestion: Additional make up and hair colors for the portrait maker Keywords: Avatars, character creator Note: blue/violet colors and fantasy hair dye colors (sherry red, lemon yellow, electric blue...) Suggestion: Additional body poses/stances for the portrait maker Keywords: Avatars, character creator Suggestion: Additional backgrounds for the portrait maker Keywords: Avatars, character creator Note: would like backgrounds suggesting large open spaces and bright backgrounds compatible with intense lighting Suggestion: Implement a web 3D viewer of the full body avatar at the forums Keywords: Avatars, character creator, web More to come tomorrow...
did you miss the keyword content? vitoc erryday |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1322
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 06:58:00 -
[1135] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:I suggest some coordinated effort to push a few features in the "easy" range. FAI, copy & paste all or any of the following: Suggestion: Deliver all apparel available as market tabs but not at NEx store/market Keywords: Avatars, character creator Suggestion: Deliver publicly the apparel that remains unused after being handed exclusively to FW LP stores Keywords: Avatars, character creator Suggestion: Additional make up and hair colors for the portrait maker Keywords: Avatars, character creator Note: blue/violet colors and fantasy hair dye colors (sherry red, lemon yellow, electric blue...) Suggestion: Additional body poses/stances for the portrait maker Keywords: Avatars, character creator Suggestion: Additional backgrounds for the portrait maker Keywords: Avatars, character creator Note: would like backgrounds suggesting large open spaces and bright backgrounds compatible with intense lighting Suggestion: Implement a web 3D viewer of the full body avatar at the forums Keywords: Avatars, character creator, web More to come tomorrow... did you miss the keyword content?
What do you mean? CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2024
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 15:07:00 -
[1136] - Quote
As its not just a "Little things" thread, but also a "medium things" thread, including some medium things can be done too. Such as
Suggestion: Add public meeting areas for multiple avatars. Let the role players provide the content. Keywords: Avatars, WIS, Incarna
Suggestion: Add alliance and corporate offices for multiple avatars, possibly including planning tools or a market limited to the alliance or corporation. Keywords: Avatars, WIS, Incarna
Suggestion: Add establishments to stations for multiple avatars. Allow contraband items to be sold there, with player enforcement of the customs laws in space when such items are transported. Keywords: Avatars, WIS, Incarna http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Flamespar
Woof Club
631
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 02:54:00 -
[1137] - Quote
Added a few items.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this process. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1386
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 06:56:00 -
[1138] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Added a few items.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this process.
Oh, it's easy to foretell.
CSM builds up the 99 bullet point list, notices that there are a few little posts asking for avatar content:
Case A: "They're so few, let them have a try because everything else is overly overrepresented" Case B: "They're so few, let's rather add a point to iterate diminutive features 4,608, 4,609 and 4,610 instead of anyhting avatar related"
With the current CSM, case B is almost granted, and I'll let you imagine Malcanis telling us why it is our fault, in a demeaning, patronizing tone. CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15584
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 07:00:00 -
[1139] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:With the current CSM, case B is almost granted, and I'll let you imagine Malcanis telling us why it is our fault, in a demeaning, patronizing tone. GǪexcept that Malc sees a lot of promise in WIS GÇö just not in the meaningless waste of dev resources. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services Russian International Allegiance
139
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 09:16:00 -
[1140] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪexcept that Malc sees a lot of promise in WIS GÇö just not in the meaningless waste of dev resources.
* Jill starts clapping her hands frantically like a three year old, that finally gets the ice-cream for which it has begged, pouted and cried ...
- excellent, excellent ... fabulous
Join the in-game channel 'The Greater Fool Bar' now.
|
|
RAP ACTION HERO
187
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 16:19:00 -
[1141] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:Added a few items.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this process. Oh, it's easy to foretell. CSM builds up the 99 bullet point list, notices that there are a few little posts asking for avatar content: Case A: "They're so few, let them have a try because everything else is overly overrepresented" Case B: "They're so few, let's rather add a point to iterate diminutive features 4,608, 4,609 and 4,610 instead of anyhting avatar related" With the current CSM, case B is almost granted, and I'll let you imagine Malcanis telling us why it is our fault, in a demeaning, patronizing tone.
yeah scrap all that dimunitive gameplay stuff lets focus on new pants and a bunch dudes emoting each other in a bar. vitoc erryday |
Flamespar
Woof Club
632
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 23:05:00 -
[1142] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:Added a few items.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this process. Oh, it's easy to foretell. CSM builds up the 99 bullet point list, notices that there are a few little posts asking for avatar content: Case A: "They're so few, let them have a try because everything else is overly overrepresented" Case B: "They're so few, let's rather add a point to iterate diminutive features 4,608, 4,609 and 4,610 instead of anyhting avatar related" With the current CSM, case B is almost granted, and I'll let you imagine Malcanis telling us why it is our fault, in a demeaning, patronizing tone.
Looks like you called it correctly. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Wolf Kruol
Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 00:01:00 -
[1143] - Quote
If CCP your planning to improve the avatar's Can you please add hairy chests.. Seriously... I like to look like a man.. Not a boy. Thanks GÇ£If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?
You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!GÇ¥ |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3150
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 00:09:00 -
[1144] - Quote
Look! That old horse got up again!
Somebody get a stick, it's ready to be beaten some more!
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Arduemont
The Asteroid Solution
1658
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 06:55:00 -
[1145] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Look! That old horse got up again!
Somebody get a stick, it's ready to be beaten some more!
Do you expect any less? Especially since the CSM ignored any Avatar related points in the "reasonable" suggestions thread, despite their getting more likes (and suggested more times) than a great deal of the crap that ended up on the final 99 list.
A great many of the items on that list are not "medium" things at all, they're less significant that most of the Little Things changes we get each year. It's a joke. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
413
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 11:55:00 -
[1146] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Look! That old horse got up again!
Somebody get a stick, it's ready to be beaten some more!
Do you expect any less? Especially since the CSM ignored any Avatar related points in the "reasonable" suggestions thread, despite their getting more likes (and suggested more times) than a great deal of the crap that ended up on the final 99 list. A great many of the items on that list are not "medium" things at all, they're less significant that most of the Little Things changes we get each year. It's a joke.
I actually didn't count, so I don't know if that is true. What I do know is that WiS has a lot of support within the group of players I know and within the prospective players that I know.
We should face facts: This forum is in no way representative of the opinion of all current EVE players anyway.
In any case, when the CSM election happened there was not a single CSM candidate - at least as far as I remember - who was for anything WiS. So it comes at no great surprise that they did not pick anything WiS.
That and the fact that probably they realize that WiS development would be out of scope.
WiS does have - or would have - a lot of potential for EVE in my opinion.
But to add one point: the time of "Bug fixes" must be over! When I picked from the list of 99 items that were chosen by the CSM, I found it hard to find anything except for "improved Drone Controls" that really made me say: "Whew, yeah we need this!"
I ended up picking that one and a few further "nice to haves".
But I'm unimportant in that whole endeavor anyway. Why? Because I'm already hooked. With or without WiS I'll stay with EVE - for now - because I love the game.
Its the people that are not hooked, swimming there in the pond, circling the bait, deciding if its tasty. I don't think they'll care much about: "We need a trillion alliance fittings, cos..."
And the question most of them will answer for themselves during their trial will be like this:
"Does exploration really make me feel like an explorer?" "Can I really feel like this top-level industry magnate in the end?" "Is this really piracy what I'm doing?" "Hey, does a space fight feel like a good space fight?"
And some - not that few - will also ask themselves: "Hey, why can't my toon leave that friggin cage?" Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x |
SKINE DMZ
YouView INC
85
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 12:37:00 -
[1147] - Quote
This all sounds awesome, would be great to allow a pub or something for simple WIS interaction, or let corporations own parts of the station to build for example a casino or something? looking forward to this |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1511
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 13:05:00 -
[1148] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:Added a few items.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this process. Oh, it's easy to foretell. CSM builds up the 99 bullet point list, notices that there are a few little posts asking for avatar content: Case A: "They're so few, let them have a try because everything else is overly overrepresented" Case B: "They're so few, let's rather add a point to iterate diminutive features 4,608, 4,609 and 4,610 instead of anyhting avatar related" With the current CSM, case B is almost granted, and I'll let you imagine Malcanis telling us why it is our fault, in a demeaning, patronizing tone. Looks like you called it correctly.
Not very difficult, provided how avatars are the ultimate abandoned feature...
Last year I was saying that CCP's strategy concerning WiS was to deprive WiS ers of any hope. No talking, no doing, until we left. "Issue delayed, issue fixed", did I say.
And here we are, fewer than before, and the only CCP does for us is grab our money with existing but unreleased stuff.
At least now EVE is a cheap MMO, there aren't many games that provide so much(?) for less than 10 euros a month. Of course some may think that cutting the sub by 30% is akin to putting the game on sale, but then, that's what they do with old games, don't them? CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1511
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 13:12:00 -
[1149] - Quote
Aidan Brooder wrote:(...)
But to add one point: the time of "Bug fixes" must be over! When I picked from the list of 99 items that were chosen by the CSM, I found it hard to find anything except for "improved Drone Controls" that really made me say: "Whew, yeah we need this!"
I ended up picking that one and a few further "nice to haves".(...)
Heh, I also voted some drone improvements, can't remember which. Most of the list was totally uninspiring in its banality; I've written grocery lists with more awe in them. CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
413
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 13:19:00 -
[1150] - Quote
[quote=Ishtanchuk Fazmarai]
Not very difficult, provided how avatars are the ultimate abandoned feature...
Last year I was saying that CCP's strategy concerning WiS was to deprive WiS ers of any hope. No talking, no doing, until we left. "Issue delayed, issue fixed", did I say.
And here we are, fewer than before, and the only CCP does for us is grab our money. At least now EVE is a cheap MMO, there aren't many games that provide so much(?) for less than 10 euros a month. Of course some may think that cutting the sub by 30% is akin to putting the game on sale, but then, that's what they do with old games, don't them?[/quote]
That is the thing that concerns me and that all the "space barbie" and "FiS" and "bug fixers" should take into consideration, too. I'm not really an "EVE is dead/dying" kind of person.
But it is very obvious that avatars and the features they originally planned (pubs, etc) do have a great appeal.
So the fact that they don't iterrate on it could have two reasons: The outspoken gentlemen here that think they are "winning a fight for FiS" OR The fact that CCP doesn't really want to/can put that much money anymore into EVE, looking at future projects that promise more revenue.
Because I think no one can really deny that WiS would be a great addition to the space simulation. It could open up a whole new ingame market if done correctly and revitalize the game.
Just speculation, of course. But it is one way to interprete it, too. One of so many. Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x |
|
Maximillian German
Spectres Syndicate
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 13:19:00 -
[1151] - Quote
why must you tease us so! |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
413
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 13:21:00 -
[1152] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Aidan Brooder wrote:(...)
But to add one point: the time of "Bug fixes" must be over! When I picked from the list of 99 items that were chosen by the CSM, I found it hard to find anything except for "improved Drone Controls" that really made me say: "Whew, yeah we need this!"
I ended up picking that one and a few further "nice to haves".(...) Heh, I also voted some drone improvements, can't remember which. Most of the list was totally uninspiring in its banality; I've written grocery lists with more awe in them.
And I don't even fly drone boats... Scary... Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1512
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 13:44:00 -
[1153] - Quote
Aidan Brooder wrote:(...)
So the fact that they don't iterrate on it could have two reasons: The outspoken gentlemen here that think they are "winning a fight for FiS" OR The fact that CCP doesn't really want to/can put that much money anymore into EVE, looking at future projects that promise more revenue.(...)
Pass on the tinfoil hat, but i'm thinking something like that.
I think that CCP has come to realize that, for several reasons, EVE as a product has reached maturity and from there it can only start aging, and so they've made their plans accordingly.
Can EVE die? Let me use a simile: Can Coca-Cola die? Not exactly. But certainly Classic Coke is not the only thing C-C sells. Classic Coke has not been abandoned, but it no longer gets the weight of investment -how many Classic ads have you seen, compared to Zero's? C-C Co. has moved to greener pastures, without abandoning their flagship states, but also Classic Coke no longer is the cool kid in the block.
So in a way, FiS crowd has won the fight for EVE. EVE will never be anything else than it is, hoorray. But it certainly is called to become less in the eyes of CCP. CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
419
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 14:31:00 -
[1154] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Aidan Brooder wrote:(...)
So the fact that they don't iterrate on it could have two reasons: The outspoken gentlemen here that think they are "winning a fight for FiS" OR The fact that CCP doesn't really want to/can put that much money anymore into EVE, looking at future projects that promise more revenue.(...) Pass on the tinfoil hat, but i'm thinking something like that. I think that CCP has come to realize that, for several reasons, EVE as a product has reached maturity and from there it can only start aging, and so they've made their plans accordingly. Can EVE die? Let me use a simile: Can Coca-Cola die? Not exactly. But certainly Classic Coke is not the only thing C-C sells. Classic Coke has not been abandoned, but it no longer gets the weight of investment -how many Classic ads have you seen, compared to Zero's? C-C Co. has moved to greener pastures, without abandoning their flagship states, but also Classic Coke no longer is the cool kid in the block. So in a way, FiS crowd has won the fight for EVE. EVE will never be anything else than it is, hoorray. But it certainly is called to become less in the eyes of CCP.
*takes back the tinfoil hat* Perhaps EVE is only kept alive by bribes from other game companies fearing our community could switch to their products. Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x |
Deborah Bat-Zeev
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
21
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 11:14:00 -
[1155] - Quote
Aidan Brooder wrote: In any case, when the CSM election happened there was not a single CSM candidate - at least as far as I remember - who was for anything WiS. So it comes at no great surprise that they did not pick anything WiS.
Actually, Malcanis stated on his candidate platform that he wants CCP to at least talk again about their future plans for WiS. The other people in current CSM are either indifferent about or explicitly against WiS, though.
Aidan Brooder wrote: But to add one point: the time of "Bug fixes" must be over! When I picked from the list of 99 items that were chosen by the CSM, I found it hard to find anything except for "improved Drone Controls" that really made me say: "Whew, yeah we need this!"
Point is, Eve won't get any large expansions. Period. Eve only serves as a cash cow now to fund CCP's other projects and you can't expect much more than the handful of fixes, stats changes, (mostly terrible) ship paint jobs and UI tweaks that we've seen in the last years. Calling for anything beyond miniscule changes would be about as realistic as demanding democracy in North Korea. |
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
419
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 12:40:00 -
[1156] - Quote
Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Aidan Brooder wrote: In any case, when the CSM election happened there was not a single CSM candidate - at least as far as I remember - who was for anything WiS. So it comes at no great surprise that they did not pick anything WiS.
Actually, Malcanis stated on his candidate platform that he wants CCP to at least talk again about their future plans for WiS. The other people in current CSM are either indifferent about or explicitly against WiS, though. Aidan Brooder wrote: But to add one point: the time of "Bug fixes" must be over! When I picked from the list of 99 items that were chosen by the CSM, I found it hard to find anything except for "improved Drone Controls" that really made me say: "Whew, yeah we need this!"
Point is, Eve won't get any large expansions. Period. Eve only serves as a cash cow now to fund CCP's other projects and you can't expect much more than the handful of fixes, stats changes, (mostly terrible) ship paint jobs and UI tweaks that we've seen in the last years. Calling for anything beyond miniscule changes would be about as realistic as demanding democracy in North Korea.
Sadly I agree with your estimate... Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1520
|
Posted - 2013.08.04 13:43:00 -
[1157] - Quote
Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Aidan Brooder wrote: In any case, when the CSM election happened there was not a single CSM candidate - at least as far as I remember - who was for anything WiS. So it comes at no great surprise that they did not pick anything WiS.
Actually, Malcanis stated on his candidate platform that he wants CCP to at least talk again about their future plans for WiS. The other people in current CSM are either indifferent about or explicitly against WiS, though. Aidan Brooder wrote: But to add one point: the time of "Bug fixes" must be over! When I picked from the list of 99 items that were chosen by the CSM, I found it hard to find anything except for "improved Drone Controls" that really made me say: "Whew, yeah we need this!"
Point is, Eve won't get any large expansions. Period. Eve only serves as a cash cow now to fund CCP's other projects and you can't expect much more than the handful of fixes, stats changes, (mostly terrible) ship paint jobs and UI tweaks that we've seen in the last years. Calling for anything beyond miniscule changes would be about as realistic as demanding democracy in North Korea.
Well, albeit the situation is right, we also must consider the (potential) causes; and right now, it turns that neither EVE nor DUST have Executive Producers at the helm. DUST just has had its EP fired/resigned and EVE has no EP since CCP Unifex moved to be head of mobile strategy (and away from godawful Iceland). The prospects of finding one are not bright -when the CEO asks the customers for suggestions of who could be an EP, that's not reassuring. And actually, not having a in-house EP for a game like EVE is... how could i say... lacking. CCP Unifex was an out-house EP and did a good job, admittedly, but his job was of damage control and he didn't laid any foundations for future development.
In a very literal way, EVE is not going anywhere because there is noone at the wheel, and even when they find a EP, they have a very high chance to break the game because of the explosive mix of EVE complexity and EP's cognitive bias. The new EP will be faced to a extremely complex situation and either he will have previous knowledge of it (and it will be biased and not objective enough) or he won't have such knowledge and will filter EVE's complexity through his experience and knowledge based on things/games that are not EVE. Then it may get very ugly as pet ideas are born and implemented.
The temptation for CCP to just leave EVE as is and move on to greener pastures must be very strong, specialy as CCP's lead team no longer are passionate 20-somes. Maybe they will choose to hire a conservative EP who may be tasked with keeping the game up, and then we will know for sure that the fate of EVE is sealed to the eyes of CCP.
Interesting times are coming, but not in the positive sense of the word... CCP Unifex: -á"lurking single players (...)-áare the majority of characters on Tranquility"
...And so now we know why CCP hasn't done anything for soloers since Apochrypha. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
633
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 11:36:00 -
[1158] - Quote
Which do you think CCP should implement first? Modular POS with interiors, or the exploration stuff?
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1522
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 12:58:00 -
[1159] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Which do you think CCP should implement first? Modular POS with interiors, or the exploration stuff?
It would be wise to start small and simple aka standalone multiplayer chat environments.
it would be so CCP to start with the massive Jesus feature aka dungeon raiding FPS, and then get everything wrong.
But that's just meaningless at this point. Waiting is Stupid is never going to be implemented. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11114
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 15:09:00 -
[1160] - Quote
Deborah Bat-Zeev wrote:Aidan Brooder wrote: In any case, when the CSM election happened there was not a single CSM candidate - at least as far as I remember - who was for anything WiS. So it comes at no great surprise that they did not pick anything WiS.
Actually, Malcanis stated on his candidate platform that he wants CCP to at least talk again about their future plans for WiS. The other people in current CSM are either indifferent about or explicitly against WiS, though.
I have already given my advice to CCP as a CSM that they should make a "State of the nation" communication on the WiS project.
That part of my campaign pledge has been fulfilled as far as I am able to do so at this time. I haven't forgotten the issue or changed my mind on it, but at this point the ball is in CCP's court.
1 Kings 12:11
|
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11114
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 15:10:00 -
[1161] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
In a very literal way, EVE is not going anywhere because there is noone at the wheel
In a very literal way, this is absolutely untrue.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3436
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 15:31:00 -
[1162] - Quote
I guess i have only imagined that Hilmar said they have a plan for the next years... And CCP Seagull got her job just for sitting around... The upcoming, purely player driven live events they've mentioned yesterday also were just imagined, i guess.
|
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3436
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 15:32:00 -
[1163] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
In a very literal way, EVE is not going anywhere because there is noone at the wheel
In a very literal way, this is absolutely untrue. In a very literal way, many people can not see beyond their own mental limitations. |
Arduemont
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1662
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 16:58:00 -
[1164] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:I guess I have only imagined that Hilmar said they have a plan for the next years...
It's all well and good being told that there is a plan, but we've seen very little of it. We get the occasional twitter comment from someone important like Hilmar saying "Wow, people really want WiS!", but that doesn't change the fact that we hear nothing solid of this plan and they expect us to trust them. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
308
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 18:30:00 -
[1165] - Quote
During this year's Alliance Tournament, CCP played it smart and learned from their past mistakes - they did not hype anything at all (or I utterly missed it). No discussions about what their future ideas, plans, or visions are to be for either Dust or Eve. So could this be construed that CCP is going to let the games idle on their own merits? Or would they rather avoid the backlash of threads like this by not having to justify anything based upon some past hyped dream?
Based upon their past track record, I feel they want to keep quiet. |
Arduemont
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1662
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 18:36:00 -
[1166] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:During this year's Alliance Tournament, CCP played it smart and learned from their past mistakes - they did not hype anything at all (or I utterly missed it). No discussions about what their future ideas, plans, or visions are to be for either Dust or Eve. So could this be construed that CCP is going to let the games idle on their own merits? Or would they rather avoid the backlash of threads like this by not having to justify anything based upon some past hyped dream?
Based upon their past track record, I feel they want to keep quiet.
To be honest, it's a fairly smart approach. But the damage has already been done and the silence is just compounding it. It would have been a perfect strategy if they had started like that. The backlash in this thread isn't just about it's OP, it's about CCP saying they would achieve walking in stations content and saying it over and over since late 2006. Even now they will keep saying "We will eventually do it". "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Marcus Harikari
174
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 19:32:00 -
[1167] - Quote
CCP should just release WiS without any sort of foreshadowing or warning. Let the players shoot the monuments for a week or so, nothing will change, but new people will come into the game if the avatars look anything near as good as they look now for a chance to interact in a more social, yet still sci-fi and linked-to-eve setting. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1528
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 21:02:00 -
[1168] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
In a very literal way, EVE is not going anywhere because there is noone at the wheel
In a very literal way, this is absolutely untrue.
So there is actually a Plan but, let me guess: it's NDA'ed!
So I must trust you that CCP has got Big err... Some err... Any Plans but they just forgot to tell us and are misleading us with astonishing restats, exhilarating new scatter gameplay and awesome UI changes, all carefully devised as a well-conceived plan two years old which was created by the mastermind EP of EVE -CCP Backlash himself.
I am judging actions, not words. For an instance, you CSM haven't picked for voting a single avatar based proposal. That's a fact. I don't care how has happened, but that's exactly what you have done for me so now I should trust your fact-depleted words.
And that's not going to happen.
Do you know how do I know that there is no future development plan? Because right now we are at the final stage of the post-Incarna development plan. We are seeign the fruits of it as Winter 2013 comes closer.
And yet POSes have been micro-patched and postponed. Sov is not even in the talks. WiS is abandoned except for money-grabbing ploys using existing content. Expansion plans essentially mean offering 36% rebates to cancelled accounts. And Odyssey was patched together in a hurry by february 2013 after the CSM was horrified at CCP's actual plans for the summer expansion.
Hang me if EVE looks now like CCP has spent wisely the 180~ish million dollars they've earned since summer of rage. Because if the current situation is the result of a plan, then we're seriously doomed.
This game is not going somewhere, and things that don't go somewhere end not going anywhere. Tell that to the Executive Producer for EVE Online on my behalf when you meet later this month, will you?
Oh wait: you won't meet the EP because there's none at the wheel. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3196
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 21:08:00 -
[1169] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:hand wringing and teeth-gnashing
Your stuffs, can I haz them since you are likely "quitting" again soon.
edit: never mind, all you probably have is a bunch of useless crap from the Nex. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1528
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 22:19:00 -
[1170] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:hand wringing and teeth-gnashing Your stuffs, can I haz them since you are likely "quitting" again soon. edit: never mind, all you probably have is a bunch of useless crap from the Nex.
I quit when I had to quit. Dunno what will happen when this account expires, but it's going to happen well after the winter expansion so by then I'll be a fool or i'll be right.
Not that matters much, though. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Naira Shandr
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 23:22:00 -
[1171] - Quote
Boggles my mind how petulant and unnecessarily pessimistic some people get, when CCP has demonstrated a love of r their universe. Especially now that they seem to have kicked up their communication with the player base. But theres no need to get sucked into this endless argument so I'll just plop down my thoughts. I hope that you continue working on WiS at whatever pace you choose CCP, because a good chunk of the players who enjoy the setting and interactions with other characters would really appreciate the ability to do so in a "physical space". (I think. I know I would.) In my very much unprofessional opinion, I think the next small step would be to introduce some kind of basic corporate office, where we can at least walk up and bump into our corp mates. Seems to me to be the best way of testing the waters again without having to add too much. |
None ofthe Above
669
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 23:41:00 -
[1172] - Quote
I am surprised this thread isn't locked. Team Avatar is disbanded and the prototype discarded. I don't see what can be said here that isn't off topic.
As close to topic as I can be:
It's unreasonable to expect any significant changes in the char creator or avatars before or as part of the winter release.
I expect more items and perhaps a few tweaks, largely related to the collector's edition.
It makes little sense to have CCP developers spend much effort on Avatar work in EVE until the Carbon team in WoD has some really stable stuff to try to port back. They don't seem to be gearing up for a marketing push for this christmas, so likely will be a year yet at least before we see something there.
This kind of project is huge, I was dismayed when CCP decided to roll-their-own. I still think Unreal would have been a better choice. The development of WoD is no doubt delayed due to this. That said, they do have the chance to push the boundaries and come up with something truly different. Best of luck to them.
Also sad that the revisionist history around Incarna has made it all about anti-WIS, cause that's not how I remember it.
I hope when WoD produces something worthwhile, we in EVE do get something out of it. There is some danger that the anti-spacebarbie crowd and the effort it would take to merge the forked Carbon code could make it more effort than it's worth.
I am actually more interested in the stories that can be told machinima-style than WiS, but that's just me. (Unless I can I can step through the door in Jita to track down and strangle some of the scammers & spammers, then I'm in.)
Don't make me hand you a wizard hat. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1528
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 06:59:00 -
[1173] - Quote
Naira Shandr wrote:Boggles my mind how petulant and unnecessarily pessimistic some people get, when CCP has demonstrated a love of r their universe. Especially now that they seem to have kicked up their communication with the player base. But theres no need to get sucked into this endless argument so I'll just plop down my thoughts. I hope that you continue working on WiS at whatever pace you choose CCP, because a good chunk of the players who enjoy the setting and interactions with other characters would really appreciate the ability to do so in a "physical space". (I think. I know I would.) In my very much unprofessional opinion, I think the next small step would be to introduce some kind of basic corporate office, where we can at least walk up and bump into our corp mates. Seems to me to be the best way of testing the waters again without having to add too much.
Well, banging your head on a wall for 16 months can have some consequences.
Back when CCP (apparently) didn't know that to with the post-Incarna mess, I did everything in my hands to convince them to take little steps and implement WiS metaphorically one room at a time (yes, that's the same you've said).
CCP instead started work on a gameplay prototype involving a massive investment of time and resources, right as they said that "Jesus features" were gone. Later, they detached WoD carbon development from EVE, which means that whatever is made for WoD won't be usable in EVE WiS without a lengthy and costly portation(?) effort.
That is, what they have made has been, chronologically:
- state that massive features are no longer in their plans - ignore the petitions to implement WiS step by step rather than as a massive feature - transform "interactable" WiS into a "combat only" WiS - ignore the petitions to implement WiS step by step (again) - turn "interactable" WiS into a possible aftermath of the massive combat-only feature - estimate the resources needed to implement the massive combat-only feature and discard its implementation for the curent production cycle (i.e. delay it at least until 2015) - stop developing avatar content - stop implementing existing avatar content - stop developing avatar technology in a way that allows to use it in EVE
These are facts. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1662
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 07:14:00 -
[1174] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote: It makes little sense to have CCP developers spend much effort on Avatar work in EVE until the Carbon team in WoD has some really stable stuff to try to port back. They don't seem to be gearing up for a marketing push for this christmas, so likely will be a year yet at least before we see something there.
The WoD team have abandoned the Carbon engine as it is known, and have created something custom out of it to suit their needs. From what Devs have said on the subject it sounds very unlikely that any code will be re-usable from their platform to ours. I had high hopes that the WoD production would eventually turn into WiS for Eve, but that seems very unlikely now.
I'll get you a link at some point, but currently the search function is inoperable. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Polarized.
53
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 07:39:00 -
[1175] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Which do you think CCP should implement first? Modular POS with interiors, or the exploration stuff?
Exploration, without a doubt. That would add new gameplay which expands on what we already have and it would be pretty easy to come up with new/interesting concepts for avatar gameplay.
I would like like to explore the interiors of POSs but ultimately the would involve investing a lot of resources for little gain. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
862
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 09:25:00 -
[1176] - Quote
CCP had the chance to do some, even basic, form of avatar gameplay before SC. When SC is out it will be too late. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Flamespar
Woof Club
633
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 09:31:00 -
[1177] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:CCP had the chance to do some, even basic, form of avatar gameplay before SC. When SC is out it will be too late.
I find the whole SC thing interesting.
If you listen to the forum whiners you'd think avatars will kill EVE.
Meanwhile players are literally throwing millions of dollars at a game that will include avatar content from the get-go.
o.O I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Cpt Tirel
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
33
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 09:48:00 -
[1178] - Quote
I think letting players affect the general direction EVE took after Incarna was a grave mistake. Please CCP make the game as you intended it to be and if you think the players are going to whine about it again just shut down the forums for a few weeks after release of the new, glorious content. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
295
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 15:29:00 -
[1179] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Naira Shandr wrote:Boggles my mind how petulant and unnecessarily pessimistic some people get, when CCP has demonstrated a love of r their universe. Especially now that they seem to have kicked up their communication with the player base. But theres no need to get sucked into this endless argument so I'll just plop down my thoughts. I hope that you continue working on WiS at whatever pace you choose CCP, because a good chunk of the players who enjoy the setting and interactions with other characters would really appreciate the ability to do so in a "physical space". (I think. I know I would.) In my very much unprofessional opinion, I think the next small step would be to introduce some kind of basic corporate office, where we can at least walk up and bump into our corp mates. Seems to me to be the best way of testing the waters again without having to add too much. Well, banging your head on a wall for 16 months can have some consequences. Back when CCP (apparently) didn't know what to do with the post-Incarna mess, I did everything in my hands to convince them to take little steps and implement WiS metaphorically one room at a time (yes, that's the same you've said). CCP instead started work on a gameplay prototype involving a massive investment of time and resources, right as they said that "Jesus features" were gone. Later, they detached WoD carbon development from EVE, which means that whatever is made for WoD won't be usable in EVE WiS without a lengthy and costly portation(?) effort. That is, what they have made has been, chronologically (non comprehensive list): - state that massive features are no longer in their plans - ignore the petitions to implement WiS step by step rather than as a massive feature - transform "interactable" WiS into a "combat only" WiS - ignore the petitions to implement WiS step by step (again) - turn "interactable" WiS into a possible aftermath of the massive combat-only feature - estimate the resources needed to implement the massive combat-only feature and discard its implementation for the curent production cycle (i.e. delay it at least until 2015) - stop developing avatar content - stop implementing existing avatar content - stop developing avatar technology in a way that allows to use it in EVE These are facts. awwwww pooo poo no emoting for you with a bunch of other dudes in "a room" TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1824
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 16:35:00 -
[1180] - Quote
Eh. I want to see more Incarna content, but I'm patient. I want to own a casino, but I've got other means of making money. My enjoyment of the game isn't contingent on future content.
Still. I was at fanfest, Hilmar asked if we wanted more Incarna content, and what I heard was a resounding "YES!" I very much hope that's listened to. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1528
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 19:26:00 -
[1181] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Naira Shandr wrote:Boggles my mind how petulant and unnecessarily pessimistic some people get, when CCP has demonstrated a love of r their universe. Especially now that they seem to have kicked up their communication with the player base. But theres no need to get sucked into this endless argument so I'll just plop down my thoughts. I hope that you continue working on WiS at whatever pace you choose CCP, because a good chunk of the players who enjoy the setting and interactions with other characters would really appreciate the ability to do so in a "physical space". (I think. I know I would.) In my very much unprofessional opinion, I think the next small step would be to introduce some kind of basic corporate office, where we can at least walk up and bump into our corp mates. Seems to me to be the best way of testing the waters again without having to add too much. Well, banging your head on a wall for 16 months can have some consequences. Back when CCP (apparently) didn't know what to do with the post-Incarna mess, I did everything in my hands to convince them to take little steps and implement WiS metaphorically one room at a time (yes, that's the same you've said). CCP instead started work on a gameplay prototype involving a massive investment of time and resources, right as they said that "Jesus features" were gone. Later, they detached WoD carbon development from EVE, which means that whatever is made for WoD won't be usable in EVE WiS without a lengthy and costly portation(?) effort. That is, what they have made has been, chronologically (non comprehensive list): - state that massive features are no longer in their plans - ignore the petitions to implement WiS step by step rather than as a massive feature - transform "interactable" WiS into a "combat only" WiS - ignore the petitions to implement WiS step by step (again) - turn "interactable" WiS into a possible aftermath of the massive combat-only feature - estimate the resources needed to implement the massive combat-only feature and discard its implementation for the curent production cycle (i.e. delay it at least until 2015) - stop developing avatar content - stop implementing existing avatar content - stop developing avatar technology in a way that allows to use it in EVE These are facts. awwwww pooo poo no emoting for you with a bunch of other dudes in "a room"
The rubbish jokes thread is over there ---> The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
295
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 04:49:00 -
[1182] - Quote
what here? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2659906#post2659906 TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
TharOkha
0asis Group
567
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 05:45:00 -
[1183] - Quote
Just a reminder of my proposals for CQ in another thread. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3456382#post3456382 GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1530
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 06:53:00 -
[1184] - Quote
You're still butthurt because you couldn't manage to forward your request to join the wrestling contest? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
295
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 07:59:00 -
[1185] - Quote
tell me again why eve is dying? tell me all the latest renditions of "because no emoting" TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1530
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 13:31:00 -
[1186] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:tell me again why eve is dying? tell me all the latest renditions of "because no emoting"
If you're looking for people who talks about emoting, you should look at your side of the fence. I still haven't seen a WiSer who merely wants to emote.
Instead, everyone asks for avatar gameplay, but obviously TA, CCP and WiSer have different ideas of what would that mean. Which is funny as, in the meanwhile, avatars are the only featureless feature in the game and FiSers are thrilled about restating ships.
BTW, in case you wonder, my point is, exactly: the day EVE dies, when looking back, the failure to implement avatar gameplay will be deemed one of the main causes of its demise. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1666
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:22:00 -
[1187] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:tell me again why eve is dying? tell me all the latest renditions of "because no emoting"
You do look pretty stupid talking about emoting like anyone actually cares. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
177
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 14:29:00 -
[1188] - Quote
I play EvE for the spaceships. As do most people.
Id like to see an avatar gameplay approaching the spaceship complexity but tis just a dream for the moment. |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
296
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 20:50:00 -
[1189] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:tell me again why eve is dying? tell me all the latest renditions of "because no emoting" If you're looking for people who talks about emoting, you should look at your side of the fence. I still haven't seen a WiSer who merely wants to emote. Instead, everyone asks for avatar gameplay, but obviously TA, CCP and WiSer have different ideas of what would that mean. Which is funny as, in the meanwhile, avatars are the only featureless feature in the game and FiSers are thrilled about restating ships. BTW, in case you wonder, my point is, exactly: the day EVE dies, when looking back, the failure to implement avatar gameplay will be deemed one of the main causes of its demise. then why did you whine at the slightest possibility of death when TA mentioned the only goddamn semblance of content- exploration, i'd say you should just stop being a pining housewife and start an account in second life and run the "bar of your dreams" there already, that's my point exactly. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
None ofthe Above
670
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 21:18:00 -
[1190] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:None ofthe Above wrote: It makes little sense to have CCP developers spend much effort on Avatar work in EVE until the Carbon team in WoD has some really stable stuff to try to port back. They don't seem to be gearing up for a marketing push for this christmas, so likely will be a year yet at least before we see something there.
The WoD team have abandoned the Carbon engine as it is known, and have created something custom out of it to suit their needs. From what Devs have said on the subject it sounds very unlikely that any code will be re-usable from their platform to ours. I had high hopes that the WoD production would eventually turn into WiS for Eve, but that seems very unlikely now. I'll get you a link at some point, but currently the search function is inoperable.
I would be interested in that link. Last I heard was that the code was "forked", which means they started from the same base as EVE but not bothering to commit any changes back to the original branch of the code. Some folk may view that as abandoning the Carbon engine but it shouldn't be.
If they've really chucked it out and started with ANOTHER custom engine, well they are working on a Duke Nukem release schedule then. I'd just write it off at that point.
Don't make me hand you a wizard hat. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11182
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 06:43:00 -
[1191] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Malcanis wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
In a very literal way, EVE is not going anywhere because there is noone at the wheel
In a very literal way, this is absolutely untrue. So there is actually a Plan but, let me guess: it's NDA'ed! So I must trust you.
Yes, precisely. Until CCP chose to make that communication I am absolutely forbidden to reveal anything about what they said to us on the subject. I did what I was able to which was to raise the issue and get an official answer.
Nevertheless there is a very competent person "in charge of EVE" at the moment. CCP have a plan for EVE, I have seen it, I think they can deliver it.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
636
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 08:52:00 -
[1192] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Malcanis wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
In a very literal way, EVE is not going anywhere because there is noone at the wheel
In a very literal way, this is absolutely untrue. So there is actually a Plan but, let me guess: it's NDA'ed! So I must trust you. Yes, precisely. Until CCP chose to make that communication I am absolutely forbidden to reveal anything about what they said to us on the subject. I did what I was able to which was to raise the issue and get an official answer. Nevertheless there is a very competent person "in charge of EVE" at the moment. CCP have a plan for EVE, I have seen it, I think they can deliver it.
CCP really needs to announce what they have planned for avatars and a loose timeframe for delivering it. Its pretty disrespectful to players to get them excited about the feature, and then do nothing about it. Even a general vision for avatars would be nice.
I don't like the whole 'build your own stargates' vision for eve as it seems a very alliance only feature. CCP needs to articulate what's in it for the smaller corps and 'lurkers' which make up the majority of players. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Cpt Tirel
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
40
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 11:17:00 -
[1193] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: CCP really needs to announce what they have planned for avatars and a loose timeframe for delivering it. Its pretty disrespectful to players to get them excited about the feature, and then do nothing about it. Even a general vision for avatars would be nice.
I think they should tell players less, in fact they should say nothing, and just make the game as they want it to be without interference. Almost like the genious Willy Wonka and his mysterious chocolate factory, only they make internet spaceships and quarters for the captains instead of chocolate. |
Arduemont
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1668
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 12:51:00 -
[1194] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote: I would be interested in that link. Last I heard was that the code was "forked", which means they started from the same base as EVE but not bothering to commit any changes back to the original branch of the code. Some folk may view that as abandoning the Carbon engine but it shouldn't be.
If they've really chucked it out and started with ANOTHER custom engine, well they are working on a Duke Nukem release schedule then. I'd just write it off at that point.
When I said 'abandoned the Carbon engine as it is known', I meant that the Carbon engine they are working with for WoD is not the same as the one we have for Eve. "Forked" is right, it is apparently the same engine but customized (who knows how much) to be a better fit for the WoD project.
I get the impression that for the "fork" to have been noteworthy there must be significant changes, and therefore we're unlikely to see much content ported from one to the other. That is more or less personal interpretation, but I don't think it sounds good.
The original thread linked below; (I spent half an hour looking through my posts because the search function isn't working.) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174634 It has the article this information was taken from. Apparently information leaked by a CCP employee to the chap who wrote the article.
Below a quote from the original article;
Quote:We are able to report that the original idea of both EVE and the WoD MMO using a unified Incarna/Carbon engine is no more and hasn't been for some time. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services Russian International Allegiance
213
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 14:27:00 -
[1195] - Quote
We saw what CCP (Torfi) had envisioned, and we embraced it.
Saying that we should go and play SecondLife instead is pure nonsense. We don't want avatars for the sake of avatars. What we want, is to expand the game within its setting. We want to continue the intrigue and drama of both player created content (alliances, corporations) and RP story after we docked.
While VoIP and forums are very nice to do this, WIS would be taking it a step further.
We're patient
Join the in-game channel 'The Greater Fool Bar' now.
|
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1844
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 14:40:00 -
[1196] - Quote
Jill has it exactly right. EVE is all about sandboxy building, and there is no good reason why that sandboxy building has to be confined to spaceships. Indeed, it already isn't - there are players who make fortuns on market manipulation without ever undocking, others who get their corporations to bring them the minerals they turn into ships, and others still whose major contribution to the game has involved Teamspeak more than it has the F1 button.
Then there's EVEbet and Somer Blink, neither of which directly involve spaceships.
if there are new frontiers to explore where we assemble, say, hive-of-scum-and-villainy drinking dens where pilots can do business in deregulated cybernetics and black market modules, or casinos where interstellar intrigue plays out over hands of Shield Tank and exorbitantly priced glasses of whisky, then I personally want to explore those frontiers.
EVE is not just Internet spaceships. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
297
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 14:40:00 -
[1197] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:We saw what CCP (Torfi) had envisioned, and we embraced it. Saying that we should go and play SecondLife instead is pure nonsense. We don't want avatars for the sake of avatars. What we want, is to expand the game within its setting. We want to continue the intrigue and drama of both player created content (alliances, corporations) and RP story after we docked.While VoIP and forums are very nice to do this, WIS would be taking it a step further. We're patient give an example of how avatars will be used to achieve the above. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
654
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 14:41:00 -
[1198] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:We saw what CCP (Torfi) had envisioned, and we embraced it. I think that was the vision we all bought in to, too bad CCP failed in a spectacular way to produce something even remotely close to it.
Ah well I will still be here in 10 years time so who knows, we may one day get to open that door after all. Dominique Vasilkovsky Mashie Saldana Monica Foulkes |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1846
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 14:56:00 -
[1199] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:give an example of how avatars will be used to achieve the above.
Let's say I dock on a Duvolle station. There are labs here. Duvolle Laboratories, full of prototype weapon and module schematics.
Those are the sort of thing I might want to get my hands on, to procure an edge in my space battles. I've got a few options. Maybe I can try to hack their systems for myself. Maybe I can hire somebody to do it for me. Maybe I've got hold of these things and want to make money off them rather than use them.
Maybe I want to do all of this without CONCORD noticing and damaging my security rating as a result, so I have to do it in person, face-to-face, in a bar. Maybe I can be the buyer rather than the seller and get these modules off somebody who's already done the dangerous part. Or some illegal deregulated implants with the limiters taken off.
Maybe I want to play a shell game to throw off the licensed enforcer who's trying to sniff out the black market by making it look like my place is the smuggler's dive, rather than the nice place my friend owns two systems over.
Maybe I want to make guns and tanks and stuff to sell to the DUST troopers, and need to use smaller scale factories than the ones capsuleers use, which can only be installed in corporate offices rather than coming with the station and being available to everyone.
Maybe I want to set up my own epic mission arcs and send people all over New Eden in a relationship where they get paid for doing the arc, and I get paid a little bit too.
Maybe I want to make NPC agents obsolete, and put mission running in player hands.
There are all sorts of options, if you just exercise a little imagination. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
128
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 15:13:00 -
[1200] - Quote
Stitcher wrote: Maybe I want to set up my own epic mission arcs and send people all over New Eden in a relationship where they get paid for doing the arc, and I get paid a little bit too.
Maybe I want to make NPC agents obsolete, and put mission running in player hands.
There are all sorts of options, if you just exercise a little imagination.
Good examples that remind me of something couple of days ago. Let's say that CCP decided to make the WiS part as something that was optional for capsuleers and either low price or free to play for non-capsuleers (and essentially meant to be gateway drug for them in order to get them hooked to EVE and get them to acquire pilot license). Now, to get around the non-capsuleers could hire other players, or NPC transports. Either one could be destroyed by players and non-capsuleer would then be stranded at closest station or planet. Not only might there be hazards out there to overcome (environment, hostiles), but they might have to light a beacon, to which any other player could then respond to, pick up the stranded player and drop off at drop off point. Some suitable NPC faction would then issue ISK and standing reward. Sort of player initiated dynamic mission, which could even be extended to include wormhole space. |
|
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
876
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 15:26:00 -
[1201] - Quote
Stitcher you're asking the hardcore anti-WIS crowd to consider that there could be other play style options within a supposed sandbox game? That they think outside the box? To consider that a 10 year old niche market game needs something new and vibrant in order to grow the player base? To use a little imagination?
Not like it matters much anyway. CCP's so cowed by this group and so afraid to take any risks for fear it might lead to another "Incarna Gate" that I doubt we'll ever see anything remotely like the scenarios you described. They're going to feed us a steady diet of ship and module tweaks, UI fixes and the occasional bland new content and attempt to pass it off as major expansions.
Don't misunderstand me; there's nothing at all wrong with fixing parts of the game that are broken, or have been neglected for years. Rebalancing, bug fixing and iteration are wonderful initiatives that should be ongoing. I just wonder why we can't also have some real innovation to go along with that. I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused. |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services Russian International Allegiance
214
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:14:00 -
[1202] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:(snip)We want to continue the intrigue and drama of both player created content (alliances, corporations) and RP story after we docked.
While VoIP and forums are very nice to do this, WIS would be taking it a step further. (snip)
give an example of how avatars will be used to achieve the above.
(Well, let's say we both dock at the same station in Old Man Star.)
You walk through the station over to the Old Man's Inn. As you open the door, you halt briefly to see what's going on.
You notice gambling tables in the far right, exotic dancers on a central stage and a traditional bar to the left. But something didn't fit in. You glance back to the center ... and there in front of the exotic dancers stands a blonde in a white dress and a Hello Kitty handbag. She blinks and attempts some awkward dancing moves. Your stomach turns.
You've seen this disgusting person on the forum before. You had decided to pod her, whenever you'd get a chance. Alas she rarely undocked in anything bigger than her Hello Kitty Ibis. ... at least her ship was not pink like the gross handbag she sported now.
Destroying a rookie ship with limited chance of a podding was not enough. Jill Xelitras had to pay the ultimate price for blending the awful cuteness of Hello Kitty with the dark cruel world that is New Eden.
You had considered other means before. A slander campaign on the forum ? It had no effect. Infiltrating Xeltec Services ... the application was declined on a f***ing Hello Kitty stationary
The only option that was left, was financial ruin. You take a long look at the gambling tables and smile ... Join the in-game channel 'The Greater Fool Bar' now.
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
199
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:27:00 -
[1203] - Quote
Quote:Don't misunderstand me; there's nothing at all wrong with fixing parts of the game that are broken, or have been neglected for years.
WIS is such part. New CQ prototype |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
297
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:30:00 -
[1204] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:give an example of how avatars will be used to achieve the above. Let's say I dock on a Duvolle station. There are labs here. Duvolle Laboratories, full of prototype weapon and module schematics. Those are the sort of thing I might want to get my hands on, to procure an edge in my space battles. I've got a few options. Maybe I can try to hack their systems for myself. Maybe I can hire somebody to do it for me. Maybe I've got hold of these things and want to make money off them rather than use them. Maybe I want to do all of this without CONCORD noticing and damaging my security rating as a result, so I have to do it in person, face-to-face, in a bar. Maybe I can be the buyer rather than the seller and get these modules off somebody who's already done the dangerous part. Or some illegal deregulated implants with the limiters taken off. Maybe I want to play a shell game to throw off the licensed enforcer who's trying to sniff out the black market by making it look like my place is the smuggler's dive, rather than the nice place my friend owns two systems over. Maybe I want to make guns and tanks and stuff to sell to the DUST troopers, and need to use smaller scale factories than the ones capsuleers use, which can only be installed in corporate offices rather than coming with the station and being available to everyone. Maybe I want to set up my own epic mission arcs and send people all over New Eden in a relationship where they get paid for doing the arc, and I get paid a little bit too. Maybe I want to make NPC agents obsolete, and put mission running in player hands. There are all sorts of options, if you just exercise a little imagination.
christ it's hey lets add to the tedium of clicking thorough invention/manufacturing with the added fun of w-a-s-d -ing your avatar's slow catwalk model strut to some console before you can even start the clickfest. on missioning, and epic arc. why would you get paid "some isk" while other people complete the mission in space? why would someone post a 50mil or whatever reward for other people to blow up some npc ships? for lp? can i just use a contract? TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
297
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:38:00 -
[1205] - Quote
my own idea for wis is like an alley-oop in basketball but for podding, i suicide gank someone's avatar, which is equivalent of a podkill, my buddy or alt ambushes the victim again immediately upon clone awakening. a successful attempt will result in loss of skill points for the victims, something like that. intel on where the victim's clone is based at will be provided by hacking game of some sort. to avoid getting slam dunked by an alley-oop one should place their clones in a nullsec station or shift them around periodically. maybe a notification mail will be sent out alerting players that others are sniffing out where their clone is based at. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1850
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:43:00 -
[1206] - Quote
I've been playing around with the Shadowrun Returns editor recently, creating my own story for people to go and play. Player-made content is going to, in theory, become the core of the game's appeal with time. I'm just inspired by that - the idea that players can create their own stories and draw other players in. Adding a reward for both runner and creator is an added bonus - bear in mind, where it's happened in, say Neverwinter Nights, there has been no actual reward for the creators beyond satisfaction.
It was less a serious suggestion than an illustration that there are opportunities to be had in station environments which may not exist elsewhere in the game. Figuring out what those opportunities are would just involve going off on a tangent a bit which is no bad thing. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Arduemont
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1672
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 17:10:00 -
[1207] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:Stitcher wrote: Maybe I want to set up my own epic mission arcs and send people all over New Eden in a relationship where they get paid for doing the arc, and I get paid a little bit too.
Maybe I want to make NPC agents obsolete, and put mission running in player hands.
There are all sorts of options, if you just exercise a little imagination.
Good examples that remind me of something couple of days ago. Let's say that CCP decided to make the WiS part as something that was optional for capsuleers and either low price or free to play for non-capsuleers (and essentially meant to be gateway drug for them in order to get them hooked to EVE and get them to acquire pilot license). Now, to get around the non-capsuleers could hire other players, or NPC transports. Either one could be destroyed by players and non-capsuleer would then be stranded at closest station or planet. Not only might there be hazards out there to overcome (environment, hostiles), but they might have to light a beacon, to which any other player could then respond to, pick up the stranded player and drop off at drop off point. Some suitable NPC faction would then issue ISK and standing reward. Sort of player initiated dynamic mission, which could even be extended to include wormhole space.
I have always loved this idea. I think the idea of "non-capsuleers" playing F2P is fantastic, and would add so much depth to the game. Imagine a pirate stopping a hauler full of passengers in lowsec and ransoming all the passengers as well as the driver. Imagine, setting up a con where you promise to move passengers but take them out to lowsec and ransom their lives or steal their goods. No pilots licence(sub)? Then you have to rely on people with a sub to leave the station.
Taiwanistan wrote:my own idea for wis is like an alley-oop in basketball but for podding, i suicide gank someone's avatar, which is equivalent of a podkill, my buddy or alt ambushes the victim again immediately upon clone awakening. a successful attempt will result in loss of skill points for the victims, something like that. intel on where the victim's clone is based at will be provided by hacking game of some sort. to avoid getting slam dunked by an alley-oop one should place their clones in a nullsec station or shift them around periodically. maybe a notification mail will be sent out alerting players that others are sniffing out where their clone is based at.
In the Empyrean age book, the Broker permanently kills a capsuleer by finding where his clone is stored. He kills him in space and then crashes a Nyx into the station that houses the guy's capsule, destroying the station. Bad ass. Would be cool to do something similar in the station. Put a bullet in their head as the clone vat opens. It would have to be nearly impossible to find the clone vat they are using, unless they were stupid enough to tell someone where their clone is stored. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
299
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 17:27:00 -
[1208] - Quote
YES! Arduemont, that's where i got that idea from, also, didn't one of the two leaders of the Guristas saw his demise under similar circumstances.
and i agree, it should be extremely difficult, the holy grail and moby **** of every ganker.
Ideally, I'd like to see Team Avatar's achieve their own vision for wis, which is described in their own words, in my signature below. So no, I am not "hardcore anti-wis", I just don't like getting force fed dogshite like incarna. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
130
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 17:46:00 -
[1209] - Quote
CCP could harness players' energy and creativity. They could release tools for terrain/structure creation as well as instructions. Possibly extend it for other areas. Players could then play around with the tools, submit them for CCP and their art team could then check if the material can be used. All rights of course would go for CCP (I don't think it would be worthwhile for them otherwise), but player who made it could get some credit for it and maybe reward of sorts (ISK?).
It is not like this is new idea anyway. Others have tread that before and shown that it can work.
Oh, and Arduemont and Taiwanistan. I really like that idea of having possibility to hunt player down and destroy their clones. There could be some form of limitation, like having character's clones under better supervision for the first few months or so. Give them enough time to get on their feet before pulling the rug from beneath them.
Edit: I recall hearing that WoD is supposed to have permadeath included. So why not EVE as well? |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2562
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 17:48:00 -
[1210] - Quote
W. O. W.
I can't believe this thread is still alive! I guess hope springs eternal...
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Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
30
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 19:10:00 -
[1211] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote: awwwww pooo poo no emoting for you with a bunch of other dudes in "a room"
You could say all interaction in this game is basically dumb at its base level. "Awww poo, not shooting fake lasers at imaginary star ships". The major point of an MMO is to foster human interaction in a setting where they can work together or against each other and have fun. Fostering that human interaction is where WiS should go in the first place. The fact is why does walking in stations have to affect in space content directly? It really doesn't, especially in its first iterations. If you don't need this, then don't do it. It isn't all about what you like, its also about what everyone else will like too, and continuing to polish EvE forever without actually adding new and different content will only make the game die.
Stations should be separate place were people can interact with each other, buy things, sell things, under the table deals, chat, interact, and relax. Be a business man, open a casino, bar, or corporate recruiting office. There are so many possibilities. Have a little imagination.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1541
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 19:40:00 -
[1212] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Malcanis wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
In a very literal way, EVE is not going anywhere because there is noone at the wheel
In a very literal way, this is absolutely untrue. So there is actually a Plan but, let me guess: it's NDA'ed! So I must trust you. Yes, precisely. Until CCP chose to make that communication I am absolutely forbidden to reveal anything about what they said to us on the subject. I did what I was able to which was to raise the issue and get an official answer. Nevertheless there is a very competent person "in charge of EVE" at the moment. CCP have a plan for EVE, I have seen it, I think they can deliver it.
Good for you, but I will rather trust what I see. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1542
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 20:26:00 -
[1213] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:(snip)We want to continue the intrigue and drama of both player created content (alliances, corporations) and RP story after we docked.
While VoIP and forums are very nice to do this, WIS would be taking it a step further. (snip)
give an example of how avatars will be used to achieve the above. (Well, let's say we both dock at the same station in Old Man Star.) You walk through the station over to the Old Man's Inn. As you open the door, you halt briefly to see what's going on. You notice gambling tables in the far right, exotic dancers on a central stage and a traditional bar to the left. But something didn't fit in. You glance back to the center ... and there in front of the exotic dancers stands a blonde in a white dress and a Hello Kitty handbag. She blinks and attempts some awkward dancing moves. Your stomach turns. You've seen this disgusting person on the forum before. You had decided to pod her, whenever you'd get a chance. Alas she rarely undocked in anything bigger than her Hello Kitty Ibis. ... at least her ship was not pink like the gross handbag she sported now. Destroying a rookie ship with limited chance of a podding was not enough. Jill Xelitras had to pay the ultimate price for blending the awful cuteness of Hello Kitty with the dark cruel world that is New Eden. You had considered other means before. A slander campaign on the forum ? It had no effect. Infiltrating Xeltec Services ... the application was declined on a f***ing Hello Kitty stationary The only option that was left, was financial ruin. You take a long look at the gambling tables and smile ...
(a npc station in hisec)
Data stash unlocked. Downloading Mr. Dumb files 88% complete.
Security breach! sniffer alert!
Inside his pod, H. does his best to save his avatar's life, to no avail. Someone's gonna pay the 125 million ISK implant on that sniffer drone clone...
(another npc station in hisec)
- This... this can't be... - You should had been more sensible, Mr. Dumb. - What's the price of slence? - Heh. You're such a lucky man. Because, this time, there is going to be a price. Listen up...
(inside a NPC agent's office)
Lvl 2 (WiS) available: a private contractor is in need to have a certain obnoxius person silenced. ref: F! Mr Dumb Lvl 4 (FiS) available: a private contractor needs a certain space casino blown out. Ref: Mr. Dumb Lvl 3 (FiS) available: a private contractor needs to protect a certain station from pirate attack. Ref: Save Dumb
(New Eden Times)
Station officer found dead, cyborg drone clone suspected. (...)
(inside a NPC agent's office)
PvP: H. wanted dead. ISK 1 billion, single pay Lvl 4 (WiS) Hacking of CONCORD distress signal wanted. Ref: Bring me the head of H. Lvl 5 (WiS) Hacking of CONCORD records required: Ref: H loves his ass.
(inside The Greater Fool Bar)
- H., you shouldn't be showing your mug here... - But, aren't we friends? - Pay me first, you still owe me what you lost betting for A.'s gladiator. - I swear she sold her out! - You still owe me what you lost... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Broker Agent
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 06:43:00 -
[1214] - Quote
The prototype looked so awesome. It's a shame CCP are such slackers. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1543
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:10:00 -
[1215] - Quote
Broker Agent wrote:The prototype looked so awesome. It's a shame CCP are such slackers.
Which prototype you're talking aobut? The Fanfest 2010 video or the exploration prototype made by TA after Incarna? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Broker Agent
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 17:01:00 -
[1216] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Broker Agent wrote:The prototype looked so awesome. It's a shame CCP are such slackers. Which prototype you're talking aobut? The Fanfest 2010 video or the exploration prototype made by TA after Incarna?
The exploration prototype. Although the old Unreal engine prototype looked fantastic there isn't much use pining over it since they abandoned using the engine. All semblance of that old demo is now gone. Although I did see UI mock-ups for "Corporate Quarters" in a UI video they released a couple of expansions ago. |
None ofthe Above
670
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 17:56:00 -
[1217] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:None ofthe Above wrote: I would be interested in that link. Last I heard was that the code was "forked", which means they started from the same base as EVE but not bothering to commit any changes back to the original branch of the code. Some folk may view that as abandoning the Carbon engine but it shouldn't be.
If they've really chucked it out and started with ANOTHER custom engine, well they are working on a Duke Nukem release schedule then. I'd just write it off at that point.
When I said 'abandoned the Carbon engine as it is known', I meant that the Carbon engine they are working with for WoD is not the same as the one we have for Eve. "Forked" is right, it is apparently the same engine but customized (who knows how much) to be a better fit for the WoD project. I get the impression that for the "fork" to have been noteworthy there must be significant changes, and therefore we're unlikely to see much content ported from one to the other. That is more or less personal interpretation, but I don't think it sounds good. The original thread linked below; (I spent half an hour looking through my posts because the search function isn't working.) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174634It has the article this information was taken from. Apparently information leaked by a CCP employee to the chap who wrote the article. Below a quote from the original article; Quote:We are able to report that the original idea of both EVE and the WoD MMO using a unified Incarna/Carbon engine is no more and hasn't been for some time.
Ah good, things are as I thought then.
I think this is the only real way it practically could go (aside from WoD jumping to another established engine). Carbon was clearly not up to snuff for the needs of WoD, and doing radical changes to EVE's codebase to support WoD would lead to way too much instability. We EvErs would rage.
Hopefully after WoD gets into alpha/beta or perhaps even released, we could start seeing some effort putting into either coming to a unified Carbon or porting EVE to WoD's Carbon 2.0. Time will tell, I'd bet that CCP will at least look to evaluate the effort around that point. It's too early for them to make any commitments though, so I am not surprised they aren't saying much about it. (I admit that half the reason I keep bringing this up, is that I want to keep it in their heads to do this. I do fear this will get lost.)
There would be a lot of reasons for CCP to want a unified Carbon engine codebase, but in these early stages it would be too hard/expensive to keep it that way. Don't make me hand you a wizard hat. |
Napalm Dethahal
Laser Tech Inc
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 18:31:00 -
[1218] - Quote
Are they ever going to make this happen or does this thread have to get to 1000 pages first?
Time for a real expansion. |
Dimaloun Vyreen
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 19:29:00 -
[1219] - Quote
Napalm Dethahal wrote:Are they ever going to make this happen or does this thread have to get to 1000 pages first?
Time for a real expansion.
I'd say 2000, just to be safe. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1545
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 08:38:00 -
[1220] - Quote
Broker Agent wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Broker Agent wrote:The prototype looked so awesome. It's a shame CCP are such slackers. Which prototype you're talking aobut? The Fanfest 2010 video or the exploration prototype made by TA after Incarna? The exploration prototype. Although the old Unreal engine prototype looked fantastic there isn't much use pining over it since they abandoned using the engine. All semblance of that old demo is now gone. Although I did see UI mock-ups for "Corporate Quarters" in a UI video they released a couple of expansions ago.
Well, the only we have seen of the exploration prototype was Jack the box-ninja suffering a series of disasters, so it all is pretty simplified.
Anyway, there was a demo of the Carbon environment in Fanfest 2009, methink, with lots of assets which we are to suppose that have been scratched and discarded, much as the additional clothing series for NEx (there were talks about a "business" and a "cyberpunk" series in addition to the "militia" that's been partially delivered). The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
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Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
50
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 00:31:00 -
[1221] - Quote
personally, i'm still waiting hopeful on this feature, more then most others
one thing i have never understood, what happened with the clothing we can see in the market, and is STILL not seeded ingame? it looks finished to the point it just needs a price tag, or am i missing something?
can we at the very least have that stuff? some of those things look quite cool to be honest.. Return varied color to Gallente ships! not everything looks good in DARK GREEN! |
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1454
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 01:41:00 -
[1222] - Quote
Dimaloun Vyreen wrote:Napalm Dethahal wrote:Are they ever going to make this happen or does this thread have to get to 1000 pages first?
Time for a real expansion. I'd say 2000, just to be safe.
which means 4000 by the time we actually see patch day :P http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Flamespar
Woof Club
639
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 05:47:00 -
[1223] - Quote
Well at the very least CCP can easily demonstrate that there is support for meaningful avatar gameplay given threads like this. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Taiwanistan
301
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 07:00:00 -
[1224] - Quote
they did and barbie freaks whined TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1562
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 07:47:00 -
[1225] - Quote
Eraza wrote:personally, i'm still waiting hopeful on this feature, more then most others
one thing i have never understood, what happened with the clothing we can see in the market, and is STILL not seeded ingame? it looks finished to the point it just needs a price tag, or am i missing something?
can we at the very least have that stuff? some of those things look quite cool to be honest..
Heh. I suggested that in the "reasonable things" crowdsourcing effort and our beloved and representative CSM downturned it to cram in yet another UI improvement.
But then, caveat emptor! The last time they released clothing items, most of them ended up at Faction Warfare's Loyalty Point stores (because, PvPrs are known to care about dressing their avatars). I would *love* to see if a single one of those items is redeemed each day week... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
130
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 08:31:00 -
[1226] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: But then, caveat emptor! The last time they released clothing items, most of them ended up at Faction Warfare's Loyalty Point stores (because, PvPrs are known to care about dressing their avatars). I would *love* to see if a single one of those items is redeemed each day week...
That was something right out of FunCom playbook. I wonder if FC had sent them some protips. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
173
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 11:13:00 -
[1227] - Quote
I wish they would just finish this prototype already. Every so often I see this thread return to the front page and say the same thing. Just do it. |
IDGAD
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 11:39:00 -
[1228] - Quote
I'm seeing a lot of familiarities here..... so many people saying "Yes, do eeeet" while looking through rose tinted glass. Then when it arrives, we get another WiS because it's out of EVE and CCP's element and they end up botching it. At that point hundreds, maybe even thousands of man-hours are lost, and we've sacrificed a COMPLETE POS overhaul like they've been talking about, or maybe even something better in the name of completing this exploration with avatars. |
Cpt Tirel
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
43
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 12:02:00 -
[1229] - Quote
IDGAD wrote:I'm seeing a lot of familiarities here..... so many people saying "Yes, do eeeet" while looking through rose tinted glass. Then when it arrives, we get another WiS because it's out of EVE and CCP's element and they end up botching it. At that point hundreds, maybe even thousands of man-hours are lost, and we've sacrificed a COMPLETE POS overhaul like they've been talking about, or maybe even something better in the name of completing this exploration with avatars.
A complete POS overhaul like most other things we have except for the spaceships themselves is worthless when compared to the potential of avatar gameplay and the value it could have for the game and its players. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
175
|
Posted - 2013.08.11 12:03:00 -
[1230] - Quote
IDGAD wrote:I'm seeing a lot of familiarities here..... so many people saying "Yes, do eeeet" while looking through rose tinted glass. Then when it arrives, we get another WiS because it's out of EVE and CCP's element and they end up botching it. At that point hundreds, maybe even thousands of man-hours are lost, and we've sacrificed a COMPLETE POS overhaul like they've been talking about, or maybe even something better in the name of completing this exploration with avatars.
The man hours lost creating the CQ were not just on the CQ. That vast majority of that time was spent on the Carbon Engine which was being created at the time. Another of my posts below;
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:They didn't spent 2 years on the CQ. They spent two years on the Carbon engine, which we have been reaping the benefits of ever since. Those amazing expansions you talk about have only been possible because of those two years working on Carbon. The hard work is done now, the engine is finished and they've been using it for years, they just need to make more WiS content. |
|
Elizabeth Brown
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 18:48:00 -
[1231] - Quote
Nice to see this thread resurface. No sarcasm.
If only CCP would actually pay attention. |
Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
38
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 19:12:00 -
[1232] - Quote
Elizabeth Brown wrote:If only CCP would actually pay attention.
Yeah seriously. Id love to see some kind of response to this thread by CCP. Whats going to happen after the POS overhaul? What other extremely large projects need fixing? Null sec sov maybe? Then what? I question how many hours of work these tweaks have actually taken, considering they used to make giant additions with each patch. Remember Apocrypha? How is one of these new patches even half what that expansion was? I like the tweaks, but it cant be taking all of everyone's time, especially since they listen to the community (Sitting and waiting/listening for weeks of feedback isn't actually working on anything).
This kind of polish is great, but finish this **** already. Its been a long time since Incarna, get your tweaks done with and move forward with new features like WiS or else this game is going to die, and your company will be taken down with it. Null sec players wont keep this game alive, they only have the largest mouths, and the most freetime. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
319
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 23:23:00 -
[1233] - Quote
I've long suspected that CCP are secretly putting in 80% of their resources into non eve projects in order to diversify their income stream, whilst pretending to be busy with ui improvements and ship balancing.
I don't mind this as all businesses need multiple income sources to be healthy but CCP should come out and tell us the truth,that they've started working on something else. I thought wod development was completely cancelled, suddenly it's back on.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
117
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 23:40:00 -
[1234] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Eraza wrote:personally, i'm still waiting hopeful on this feature, more then most others
one thing i have never understood, what happened with the clothing we can see in the market, and is STILL not seeded ingame? it looks finished to the point it just needs a price tag, or am i missing something?
can we at the very least have that stuff? some of those things look quite cool to be honest.. Heh. I suggested that in the "reasonable things" crowdsourcing effort and our beloved and representative CSM downturned it to cram in yet another UI improvement. But then, caveat emptor! The last time they released clothing items, most of them ended up at Faction Warfare's Loyalty Point stores (because, PvPrs are known to care about dressing their avatars). I would *love* to see if a single one of those items is redeemed each day week...
I would assume that this was done to get more people involved in FW.
I wonder if that was an "Op Success".... C'mon CCP, let us suicide gank the high-sec pub matches in Dust..... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1573
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 06:57:00 -
[1235] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I've long suspected that CCP are secretly putting in 80% of their resources into non eve projects in order to diversify their income stream, whilst pretending to be busy with ui improvements and ship balancing.
I don't mind this as all businesses need multiple income sources to be healthy but CCP should come out and tell us the truth,that they've started working on something else. I thought wod development was completely cancelled, suddenly it's back on.
Essentially I agree with that. I think CCP has seen the writing on the wall for EVE and are readying themselves for a post-EVE scenario.
I don't know what where the plans for DUST 514, but it looks like a new scion was implanted on an old trunk, and rather than bring new life to the trunk, the scion has been tainted by the old trunk and is drying.
That begs the question, is it worth to keep adding stuff to EVE? Specially when the playerbase opposes everything not related to the old tainted complexity that pevents further development? You want to add a ship, that's four ships actually (1 per faction), and must be balanced against 200+ other ships b/c nobdy wants Supercaps 2. That doesn't helps innovation. And if you try to do something not entangled to spaceship gameplay... you're not welcome. Not at all.
So at the moment, WoD looks a way more promising game than EVE. Of course, I am the happy happy joy joy kind and i seriously doubt CCP can get it right with WoD (hint: it's nice to attract female players, but the kind of testosterone riddled ubercompetitive gameplay sported in EVE won't keep them interested for long). But nonetheless, just by being a new PI and being aimed at a bigger and unexploited niche, WoD is way more promising.
If I was an investor, would look at the bloody mess that it's EVE, the horrendous man-hours wasted just dealing with its nightmareish complexity, and would ask CCP to place my money on WoD. Wouldn't even comment on the price paid to have 3,000 guys online at DUST.
Think of it, there are at last two massive old crap iteration efforts pending: POS and SOV. Compared to the scale of the last expansions, we're dealing with fishing killer whales with the same tools providing us sardines each 6 monrhs. And even by fixing those two isues, CCP would be pleasing less than 10% the playerbase (an improvement over the "lucky 1%" in last expansions), and also would be risking to break the game completely.
There is no room left to innovation, player retention or playerbase increase for the next two years (the same as after Incarna)... unless CCP begins selling another game. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
64
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 12:32:00 -
[1236] - Quote
i think you are a tad pessimistic, and that's unusual coming from me with this many concurrent subscribers, eve is not likely to die any time soon, unless ccp intentionally murders it by messing up the core of the game, which adding content ELSEWHERE will NOT do
i admit it has appeared that ccp has moved staff from eve to other projects, but then again, we dont exactly know what they are up to, this is guesswork, which should be done carefully i would perhaps have a clue, but the ******* fanfest sold out before i got a ticket, so i missed all that
this is also the first fanfest to sell out, ever, another hint that stopping content development would be a STUPID idea :)
i also dont think ccp has any competition with sandbox space mmo's i looked around carefully, when WiS was cancelled, BECAUSE WiS was cancelled(not because the launch fail or disagreement with the ideas) and NOPE, nothing on the market comes close to replacing eve
so now all i can really do is try to help CCP notice, that unlike some old ideas, like atmospheric flight, that as incredibly cool it looked, but i kind of dont miss it much other cancelled features i dont even remember WiS, no, that's not forgotten i still dream about the day when you open that door
Return varied color to Gallente ships! not everything looks good in DARK GREEN! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1575
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 13:07:00 -
[1237] - Quote
Eraza wrote:i think you are a tad pessimistic, and that's unusual coming from me with this many concurrent subscribers, eve is not likely to die any time soon, unless ccp intentionally murders it by messing up the core of the game, which adding content ELSEWHERE will NOT do
Well, i agree that i am in the pessimistic end of the spectrum. But i am not just seeing the world through a grim lens, there is something real behind my words.
Subscription numbers are deceitful as we're talking about accounts that provide less revenue per player. Yes, they have me subscribbed (+1 account, huzzah), but they've got 55 euros instead of 90 (-35 euros, sure they won't be missing them?). And hang me if I would be around if I had to pay full price for the reheated porridge they're serving.
Also, multiple accounts are becoming the latest marketing tool and mutliboxing is becoming a "standard procedure". They're not selling the game anymore, they are re-selling it to current and former customers. They're scooping in 2 or 3 years every former subscriber that could return and every current subscriber that could be interested (or forced) to have more than one acount. But then, what's after 2014? Who will be left to come, see the game is the same as when he left, and say g-bye for greener pastures?
WiS was the future, and CCP not only killed the future, but has deserted it even for the "core" gameplay.
And yet, "core" gameplay has stretched itself well beyond sustainable complexity. They really need to do OTHER things, totally unconnected to the core game, if they want to add new content.
According to Malcanis, there is a plan. But we're at the end of the post-Incarna plan and I can't see why did they bothered at all. POS untouched, SOV untouched, WiS abandoned and expansions barely deserve being called patches. Was this a plan? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
67
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 14:06:00 -
[1238] - Quote
well, obviously they cant just announce a full return of WiS, they got burned by it last time, so it needs to be carefully done(and free of "greed is good" memos) also, we have not heard what's planned for the winter expansion, apparently they are being sneaky about *something* lets be optimistic that's some actual content they have. as much as the balance stuff is needed, it's not quite "new content" Return varied color to Gallente ships! not everything looks good in DARK GREEN! |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
2005
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 14:18:00 -
[1239] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:WiS was the future, and CCP not only killed the future...
Okay stop. STAHP.
CCP didn't kill it, they felt compelled to switch strategy to appease an angry player base who overreacted to an unpopular attitude, and have been leery of going back to it because of those precise same overreacting players.
Blame everyone who shot that statue in Jita.
An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Dimaloun Vyreen
Venture Corporation
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 14:29:00 -
[1240] - Quote
This would've been awesome. |
|
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 14:51:00 -
[1241] - Quote
This sounds like an obscure and seemingly irrelivent question, but chat boxes are still going to be available if this exploration stuff in implemented, right?
Mics are great and all, but a little impractical for those of us who can't talk. |
Dimaloun Vyreen
Venture Corporation
8
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 15:17:00 -
[1242] - Quote
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:This sounds like an obscure and seemingly irrelivent question, but chat boxes are still going to be available if this exploration stuff in implemented, right?
Mics are great and all, but a little impractical for those of us who can't talk.
I assume so. It'd be impractical to remove it. There are three things you say to the police. "Yes, sir", "No, sir" and "I want a lawyer". There is one thing you say to Concord, "Wait, it wasn-" |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1756
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 16:41:00 -
[1243] - Quote
Dimaloun Vyreen wrote:Jennifer Maxwell wrote:This sounds like an obscure and seemingly irrelivent question, but chat boxes are still going to be available if this exploration stuff in implemented, right?
Mics are great and all, but a little impractical for those of us who can't talk. I assume so. It'd be impractical to remove it.
I'm not personally sure I would want local broadcasted from inside an Avatar environment. A separate chat perhaps... "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
2012
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 16:43:00 -
[1244] - Quote
A separate chat would effectively make it an instance, really. I think we're all against that, right?
An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1756
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 16:51:00 -
[1245] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:A separate chat would effectively make it an instance, really. I think we're all against that, right?
No not really, because an instance is inaccessible by others on the outside. By your logic, each system is an instance. Although you could see it like that anyone can jump into a system. So long as people can dock and join you (to kill you or otherwise), it's not really an instance the way Eve looks at it. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
2012
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 16:52:00 -
[1246] - Quote
You make a good point and I stand corrected. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC The Last Chancers.
703
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:14:00 -
[1247] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:A separate chat would effectively make it an instance, really. I think we're all against that, right?
If anyone and everyone can find it and join it, then by definition it's not an instance.
If it was a special case of a new, on-grid chat channel, then I'd be delighted. Think of how many sci-fi shows have nearby ships hailing each other, but in EVE you can't do it (easily) without either whispering to one ship or shouting to the entire solar system you're in.
You can put the odds of CCP adding instanced content to EVE at zero.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
257
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:25:00 -
[1248] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.
Unless the devs keep the game, the watchman quoteth in vain.
In after the lock :P - CCP Falcon |
Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
41
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:36:00 -
[1249] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:You make a good point and I stand corrected.
You are obviously not from the internet. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
2031
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 23:27:00 -
[1250] - Quote
Nah, see, I troll people by not arguing with them. It's a meta thing. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1759
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 11:14:00 -
[1251] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Nah, see, I troll people by not arguing with them. It's a meta thing. I'm So Meta Even This Acronym "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
180
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 13:53:00 -
[1252] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:WiS was the future, and CCP not only killed the future... CCP didn't kill it, they felt compelled to switch strategy to appease an angry player base who overreacted to an unpopular attitude, and have been leery of going back to it because of those precise same overreacting players. Blame everyone who shot that statue in Jita.
I don't think its overreacting over 4 captains quarters where you can do nothing and microtransaction based loonacy. CCP got what they deserve, they certainly havn't been too forthcoming over the future of avatar gameplay recently, what features it has maybe because they don't/didn't have any. If they didn't have anything meaningful to avatar gameplay to begin with they shouldn't have bothered with it. |
Iskander Phoenix
University of Caille Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 15:23:00 -
[1253] - Quote
I personally think this would be fantastic. It would actually give function to something that's been so far only aesthetic in eve. The avatars. The extension of the economy into new areas would be awesome. But I think they should just wait to do this till after the complete the core gameplay changes. Like pos and sov and the ship rebalancing. But after that! Then holy crap could this be great! |
Jexis Ghan
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 15:47:00 -
[1254] - Quote
Recently played a game called "Entropia Universe". Great idea, loved the sandbox evironment and collecting resources. Fly / drive around in vehicles etc, even multiple players on single space ships handling turrets etc. Team raids on resources on planets, trade etc etc and so on and so forth. Game is a total sink drain on the wallet though and you can't play it for a week without dumping $30 into it, I finish up in a week with them and will never play again, but great idea there.
Eve is by far the more advanced game, seeing the same idea incorporated would be fantastic. Everyone wants a more immersive environment, edging slowly towards a more real world. Single pod single player ships have been fun, but imagine the team work involved on running a battleship, or being able to not just fight on a planet but have an operational market for on world goods too.
For most, Eve would be an escape from one life to another, and the more you can immerse yourself into that world the better. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11237
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 17:25:00 -
[1255] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:A separate chat would effectively make it an instance, really. I think we're all against that, right?
No that's not what an instance is. Jita isn't an instance because it has a seperate local from Perimiter.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
2038
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 17:32:00 -
[1256] - Quote
you must have missed the bit where somebody else pointed that out and I agreed and stood corrected.
I mean, I know that's a rare thing on the Internet, but come on. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11238
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 19:14:00 -
[1257] - Quote
Indeed I did. People misusing "instance" is one of my push buttons.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
321
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 22:41:00 -
[1258] - Quote
Iskander Phoenix wrote:I personally think this would be fantastic. It would actually give function to something that's been so far only aesthetic in eve. The avatars. The extension of the economy into new areas would be awesome. But I think they should just wait to do this till after the complete the core gameplay changes. Like pos and sov and the ship rebalancing. But after that! Then holy crap could this be great!
Thing is though, you can balance ships indefinitely, if we wait for other things to get done, eve will be stuck in an infinite loop and no new content will be added.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Dimaloun Vyreen
Venture Corporation
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 22:56:00 -
[1259] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Iskander Phoenix wrote:I personally think this would be fantastic. It would actually give function to something that's been so far only aesthetic in eve. The avatars. The extension of the economy into new areas would be awesome. But I think they should just wait to do this till after the complete the core gameplay changes. Like pos and sov and the ship rebalancing. But after that! Then holy crap could this be great! Thing is though, you can balance ships indefinitely, if we wait for other things to get done, eve will be stuck in an infinite loop and no new content will be added.
Very true. Stagnation is not a goodthing. There are three things you say to the police. "Yes, sir", "No, sir" and "I want a lawyer". There is one thing you say to Concord, "Wait, it wasn-" |
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
198
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 23:50:00 -
[1260] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Indeed I did. People misusing "instance" is one of my push buttons.
In this instance I can relate to you. |
|
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
258
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 06:38:00 -
[1261] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Stitcher wrote:A separate chat would effectively make it an instance, really. I think we're all against that, right?
No that's not what an instance is. Jita isn't an instance because it has a seperate local from Perimiter.
Actually, that's precisely what it is. That's why Jita can go down and the rest of the eve stay up, hypothetically speaking.
Just because there is only ever one instance of Jita, doesn't change this. In after the lock :P -á - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1588
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 06:59:00 -
[1262] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Iskander Phoenix wrote:I personally think this would be fantastic. It would actually give function to something that's been so far only aesthetic in eve. The avatars. The extension of the economy into new areas would be awesome. But I think they should just wait to do this till after the complete the core gameplay changes. Like pos and sov and the ship rebalancing. But after that! Then holy crap could this be great! Thing is though, you can balance ships indefinitely, if we wait for other things to get done, eve will be stuck in an infinite loop and no new content will be added.
If we count that there is no known progress in massive features like POS and SOV, which are ahead of WiS in the pecking order, the loop is already on us.
That, or suddenly we may find that 50% of EVE devs have been working on a "super secret cool plan" that justifies the little stuff being delivered with the 6-month updates and patches. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
66
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 16:27:00 -
[1263] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Back at the end of February CCP t0rfifrans announced Team Avatar and that one of our priorities was prototyping, specifically to: "...create playable gameplay prototypes of gameplay features and try them out within the team, and within the company... The purpose of all this prototyping is to make sure we provide a strong vision for avatar gameplay, have a good demonstrable idea of why it is engaging and better understand the technology we will need to create in order to make it a reality." The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information! ...
CCP Unifex wrote:It has been fantastic to see the Avatar team show everyone that there is meaningful gameplay using more than just your ship as your agent in the EVE Universe. The prototyping work they have done in Unity has allowed them to rapidly explore different themes and make a game which is challenging, fun and in the true spirit of EVE. ... So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.
It's great to see that there are ppl working at CCP that do not think that "EVE is only about spaceships and eleet peeveepee" and are working on avatar gameplay. What a shame that people who could be working on it too and helping it being released earlier got laid off. Its not like CCP is facing economical problems and needs to cut on personnel expense.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
656
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 00:56:00 -
[1264] - Quote
I dunno how I feel about this new EVE: Valkyrie game. Just feels like resources going into another game that isn't EVE.
The should do what Sony has done with the player studio and let players design the stuff for Incarna. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
598
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 01:10:00 -
[1265] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I dunno how I feel about this new EVE: Valkyrie game. Just feels like resources going into another game that isn't EVE.
The should do what Sony has done with the player studio and let players design the stuff for Incarna.
Totally agree, it should be another/extension of the sandbox, CCP make the rules, add some assets and let the players do the rest. Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
2264
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 02:11:00 -
[1266] - Quote
if CCP implement it the way I'm sure they'd like to, then Valkyrie will itself be exactly that - a different way for players to access the sandbox and then be left to do the rest.
Kwatz! You people are so negative. Do you seriously not get how this works? The EVE Sandbox does not have to be solely Internet Spaceships. Okay? It's like Narnia. Everyone knows about the wardrobe, but the kids in the books also got there on a train and by staring at a picture for a while. It was still the same Narnia no matter how they got there.
Doesn't matter if you're playing a Capsuleer, a DUST Merc or a Valkyrie pilot, you still wind up in New Eden, and New Eden is the sandbox. I don't understand all this pessimism surrounding the idea of having different lenses and modes of access to accommodate different gaming tastes.
I mean what's behind that? Do you think it's not going to work, in which case why not? Or are you just jealous about having to share the sandbox with more kids? An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Xytheus Skor
Venture Corporation
18
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 02:16:00 -
[1267] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:if CCP implement it the way I'm sure they'd like to, then Valkyrie will itself be exactly that - a different way for players to access the sandbox and then be left to do the rest.
Kwatz! You people are so negative. Do you seriously not get how this works? The EVE Sandbox does not have to be solely Internet Spaceships. Okay? It's like Narnia. Everyone knows about the wardrobe, but the kids in the books also got there on a train and by staring at a picture for a while. It was still the same Narnia no matter how they got there.
Doesn't matter if you're playing a Capsuleer, a DUST Merc or a Valkyrie pilot, you still wind up in New Eden, and New Eden is the sandbox. I don't understand all this pessimism surrounding the idea of having different lenses and modes of access to accommodate different gaming tastes.
I mean what's behind that? Do you think it's not going to work, in which case why not? Or are you just jealous about having to share the sandbox with more kids?
Exactly. And think, if CCP had implemented Incarna properly, we would have all of this. But nope. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
2264
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 02:20:00 -
[1268] - Quote
CCP felt compelled to abort Incarna and go into tweak-and-polish mode for a few years. Recall, at the Fanfests after it the mere mention of WiS was enough to inspire booing. Any mention of it on the forums was met with similar negativity.
Fact is, I believe them when they say that what they produced was all they could produce in the available development time for a twice-yearly expansion schedule. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 03:08:00 -
[1269] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:It's great to see that there are ppl working at CCP that do not think that "EVE is only about spaceships and eleet peeveepee" and are working on avatar gameplay. What a shame that people who could be working on it too and helping it being released earlier got laid off. Its not like CCP is facing economical problems and needs to cut on personnel expense.
After what happened when Incarna was released if there are people at CCP who think EvE should be about anything other than spaceships and the industry that supports them those people should be fired.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
657
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 03:20:00 -
[1270] - Quote
Rhes wrote: After what happened when Incarna was released if there are people at CCP who think EvE should be about anything other than spaceships and the industry that supports them those people should be fired.
And like magic, an idiot appears. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
182
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 05:06:00 -
[1271] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:CCP felt compelled to abort Incarna and go into tweak-and-polish mode for a few years. Recall, at the Fanfests after it the mere mention of WiS was enough to inspire booing. Any mention of it on the forums was met with similar negativity.
Oh? I'm pretty sure people cheered quite hard last fanfest when Hilmar asked "if they want to see the door open." And harder when he asked it again. Then stating nonchalantly "maybe next year." And I don't remember fanfest attendees ever booing at WiS related stuff, not even immediately after the fiasco. |
Taiwanistan
316
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 05:11:00 -
[1272] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Rhes wrote: After what happened when Incarna was released if there are people at CCP who think EvE should be about anything other than spaceships and the industry that supports them those people should be fired.
And like magic, an idiot appears. sorry to break it to you fella, add console dudes are not interested in emoting with you. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 05:35:00 -
[1273] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Rhes wrote: After what happened when Incarna was released if there are people at CCP who think EvE should be about anything other than spaceships and the industry that supports them those people should be fired.
And like magic, an idiot appears.
And what is your fursona?
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
658
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 05:47:00 -
[1274] - Quote
The two previous responses illustrate why CCP will implement more content for avatars.
The best they can come up with is some gibbering nonsense about furries and emoting. Neither of which have anything do do with the suggested prototype.
Dribble on brave retards, dribble on. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 05:51:00 -
[1275] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:The two previous responses illustrate why CCP will implement more content for avatars.
The best they can come up with is some gibbering nonsense about furries and emoting. Neither of which have anything do do with the suggested prototype.
Dribble on brave retards, dribble on.
Actually CCP cares more about the massive drop in subscriptions that occurred right after Incarna than they do about people who want to turn Eve into a second-rate Second Life clone.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
658
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 06:13:00 -
[1276] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Actually CCP cares more about the massive drop in subscriptions that occurred right after Incarna than they do about people who want to turn Eve into a second-rate Second Life clone.
And if you had an iota of intelligence and honesty you would know that the whole drop in subscriptions came after a number of years of underwhelming expansions and broken promises, for which Incarna with it's macrotransaction store was the final straw.
But please, continue to dribble. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1684
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 06:51:00 -
[1277] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I dunno how I feel about this new EVE: Valkyrie game. Just feels like resources going into another game that isn't EVE.
The should do what Sony has done with the player studio and let players design the stuff for Incarna.
It feels weird to see how even new games are higher in the resource allocation list than old neglected EVE features.
My impression for 2013 being, is that CCP is below the power curve. They can't develop/fix EVE fast enough and are diverting resources elsewhere, which of course won't help EVE but may give CCP some financial room once the actual situation with EVE subscriptions surfaces (IMHO, they're re-selling the game rather than getting actual new subcribers, and guess how many times you can sell the same game to the same people before the bubble pops).
DUST is in "keep spending" mode and there is no hint of wether it will as much as pay itself back, ever.
EVE is being kept in support mode (pending to know details on "The Hallellujah Plan").
Old "top dog" features like POS and SOV are on the hold (and then The Hallellujah Plan would not be so much hallelujah if it was just "fix by 2015 what we said we would like to fix by 2013").
WiS has gone full Waiting is Stupid mode.
And of course, there's that little pending question about EVE not having an Executive Producer to undertake the dirty job of "reconciling business and creative needs to create an inspirational product with successful business model (...) lead overall development (...) work closely with publishing and operations activities (...) (be) responsible for the overall success of the title". (Stress mine) The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 06:57:00 -
[1278] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:the whole drop in subscriptions came after a number of years of underwhelming expansions and broken promises, for which Incarna with it's macrotransaction store was the final straw..
You are literally arguing my point. CCP wasted two years on roleplaying nonsense and neglected Eve's core gameplay which resulted in them losing a ton of subscriptions. They aren't going to make that mistake again no matter how many furries whine at them.
|
Sivney Quincannon
38
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 07:53:00 -
[1279] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I've long suspected that CCP are secretly putting in 80% of their resources into non eve projects in order to diversify their income stream, whilst pretending to be busy with ui improvements and ship balancing.
I don't mind this as all businesses need multiple income sources to be healthy but CCP should come out and tell us the truth,that they've started working on something else. I thought wod development was completely cancelled, suddenly it's back on.
Essentially I agree with that. I think CCP has seen the writing on the wall for EVE and are readying themselves for a post-EVE scenario. I don't know what where the plans for DUST 514, but it looks like a new scion was implanted on an old trunk, and rather than bring new life to the trunk, the scion has been tainted by the old trunk and is drying. That begs the question, is it worth to keep adding stuff to EVE? Specially when the playerbase opposes everything not related to the old tainted complexity that pevents further development? You want to add a ship, that's four ships actually (1 per faction), and must be balanced against 200+ other ships b/c nobdy wants Supercaps 2. That doesn't helps innovation. And if you try to do something not entangled to spaceship gameplay... you're not welcome. Not at all. So at the moment, WoD looks a way more promising game than EVE. Of course, I am the happy happy joy joy kind and i seriously doubt CCP can get it right with WoD (hint: it's nice to attract female players, but the kind of testosterone riddled ubercompetitive gameplay sported in EVE won't keep them interested for long). But nonetheless, just by being a new PI and being aimed at a bigger and unexploited niche, WoD is way more promising. If I was an investor, would look at the bloody mess that it's EVE, the horrendous man-hours wasted just dealing with its nightmareish complexity, and would ask CCP to place my money on WoD. Wouldn't even comment on the price paid to have 3,000 guys online at DUST. Think of it, there are at last two massive old crap iteration efforts pending: POS and SOV. Compared to the scale of the last expansions, we're dealing with fishing killer whales with the same tools providing us sardines each 6 monrhs. And even by fixing those two isues, CCP would be pleasing less than 10% the playerbase (an improvement over the "lucky 1%" in last expansions), and also would be risking to break the game completely. There is no room left to innovation, player retention or playerbase increase for the next two years (the same as after Incarna)... unless CCP begins selling another game.
I may not completely agree with everyhing you've stated above, but I certainly agree that CCP should commit the vast majority of their resources on the development of WoD for the near future.
EVE Online may be around for many years to come, but the development of new projects (non-EVE related) will continue to be vital to the company's success over the next several years. It is the only way CCP will be able to compete with the next-generation MMORPG's like Everquest Next and Landmark. Heck, the future of MMORPG's is going to be determined over the next couple of years anyway. This is why we are seeing current project release dates for upcoming titles (ESO and Wildstar) being pushed back to next year or projects being completely reset (Blizzard's Titan) for a multitude of reasons that have plagued MMO's for years. Players are bored and scattered all over the place waiting and hoping that one of these company's will get a bloody clue. I personally hope that CCP can focus their innovated passion on WoD and be THAT company to finally produce a title that the majority of players will be willing to invest their time and money into.
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Taiwanistan
316
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 08:54:00 -
[1280] - Quote
sorry if people are butthurt that the company places more emphasis on a shooter, in an attempt to grab some of that COD cash money, rather than a bunch of scrub dudes who complain about the aurem but still want to dress up and emote each other. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
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Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
2266
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 10:42:00 -
[1281] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Stitcher wrote:CCP felt compelled to abort Incarna and go into tweak-and-polish mode for a few years. Recall, at the Fanfests after it the mere mention of WiS was enough to inspire booing. Any mention of it on the forums was met with similar negativity. Oh? I'm pretty sure people cheered quite hard last fanfest when Hilmar asked "if they want to see the door open." And harder when he asked it again. Then stating nonchalantly "maybe next year." And I don't remember fanfest attendees ever booing at WiS related stuff, not even immediately after the fiasco.
LAST fanfest, yes. The one immediately after Incarna? They booed quite loudly. I was there, and I remember thinking "morons" to myself when they did. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
30
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 11:10:00 -
[1282] - Quote
Still waiting for WiS here and I dont care what people say and how long it's gonna take. I believe CCP will suprise us all even those biggest haters. Eveismuchbiggerthanthat |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
66
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 18:41:00 -
[1283] - Quote
Stitcher wrote: I don't understand all this pessimism surrounding the idea of having different lenses and modes of access to accommodate different gaming tastes. I mean what's behind that? Do you think it's not going to work, in which case why not? And why has EVE succeeded where any other take on the New Eden sandbox is so "obviously" doomed?
Or are you just jealous about having to share the sandbox with more kids?
I believe much of the pessimism around CCP latest efforts in expanding the EVE Universe are tied to the fact that they were half baked and poorly delivered, and the human resources/development/marketing choices made around them.
Rhes wrote:raven666wings wrote:It's great to see that there are ppl working at CCP that do not think that "EVE is only about spaceships and eleet peeveepee" and are working on avatar gameplay. What a shame that people who could be working on it too and helping it being released earlier got laid off. Its not like CCP is facing economical problems and needs to cut on personnel expense.
After what happened when Incarna was released if there are people at CCP who think EvE should be about anything other than spaceships and the industry that supports them those people should be fired.
Is this the official goons opinion about CCP Bayesian, Unifex, t0rfifrans and their teammates? What next, are you gonna suggest they should suicide too? ... lol betta check yorself before you wreck yoself, cause asking for mercy is bad for your health
Rhes wrote: Actually CCP cares more about the massive drop in subscriptions that occurred right after Incarna than they do about people who want to turn Eve into a second-rate Second Life clone.
CCP should care about people unsubbing when they actually buy PLEX and support the game, not when moon farming crybaby herds throw tantrums. Btw send my regards to Lord Mittler and tell him maybe he should get some puppies not infected with rabies brah that stuff'sdangerous and infectious |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1021
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 19:37:00 -
[1284] - Quote
I have given up the hope to ever see WIS ,or EIS as some people say lately. But it is funny to see ,that nobody is whining about the failure DUST is and the fact that DEV,s are going to be taken away from EvE in favor for a new spaceshooter. And when it comes to a tiny Devteam ,working on WIS ,an EvE related feature the Goons are on fire. I don,,t think Dust did not had a very small team especially in the last year. Valkerie will be the same ,i guess.
But hey ,WIS is not coming ,So that Mittens guy and his Goons can go to sleep ,with no worries and dream about the next big ship.
R.S.I2014
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1687
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 20:59:00 -
[1285] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:I have given up the hope to ever see WIS ,or EIS as some people say lately. But it is funny to see ,that nobody is whining about the failure DUST is and the fact that DEV,s are going to be taken away from EvE in favor for a new spaceshooter. And when it comes to a tiny Devteam ,working on WIS ,an EvE related feature the Goons are on fire. I don,,t think Dust did not had a very small team especially in the last year. Valkerie will be the same ,i guess.
But hey ,WIS is not coming ,So that Mittens guy and his Goons can go to sleep ,with no worries and dream about the next big ship.
Hi old, nice to see you're still around! I too have given up hope to get Waiting is Stupid developed. I'm running my own "social club" thread and keep mining and running missions as before Incarna. CCP not doing WiS, I'm not thinking, just poking CCP.
DUST... I don't care. I would cry tears of blood if I had to care about all that effort and what it has delivered. Valkirie... funny, very funny. FiSers are actually thrilled to get reheated porridge for EVE and a new unrelated game for their sub money. Some are really easy to be outsmarted by CCP.
In the short term, I am waiting for CCP to annnounce their new development plan (I call it "The Hallellujah Plan", provided how Malcanis seems to think it''ll be good worth itt) so I can bash it as needed. It would be better for everyone if I could hope about the new plan, but CCP completely emptied the hope account, and are doing zill to refill it. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
38
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 21:10:00 -
[1286] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:But hey ,WIS is not coming ,So that Mittens guy and his Goons can go to sleep ,with no worries and dream about the next big ship.
Well that is a relief
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1023
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 21:29:00 -
[1287] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Hi old, nice to see you're still around!
For some strange reason i am used to be called Old butt ,but only Old is fine
So its waiting for a new game then ,developed for a device not yet on the market . Ooh well the ways of these Forums are very strange. R.S.I2014
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Flamespar
Woof Club
660
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 01:18:00 -
[1288] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:I have given up the hope to ever see WIS ,or EIS as some people say lately. But it is funny to see ,that nobody is whining about the failure DUST is and the fact that DEV,s are going to be taken away from EvE in favor for a new spaceshooter. And when it comes to a tiny Devteam ,working on WIS ,an EvE related feature the Goons are on fire. I don,,t think Dust did not had a very small team especially in the last year. Valkerie will be the same ,i guess.
But hey ,WIS is not coming ,So that Mittens guy and his Goons can go to sleep ,with no worries and dream about the next big ship.
Yeah I find it odd too. CCP have three other projects at which they are throwing money, but it's avatars that will kill EVE?
Yeah right.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
43
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 01:42:00 -
[1289] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:CCP should care about people unsubbing when they actually buy PLEX and support the game, not when moon farming crybaby herds throw tantrums. Btw send my regards to Lord Mittler and tell him maybe he should get some puppies not infected with rabies, that stuff's dangerous and contagious brah.
What is your fursona?
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1689
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 06:43:00 -
[1290] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:I have given up the hope to ever see WIS ,or EIS as some people say lately. But it is funny to see ,that nobody is whining about the failure DUST is and the fact that DEV,s are going to be taken away from EvE in favor for a new spaceshooter. And when it comes to a tiny Devteam ,working on WIS ,an EvE related feature the Goons are on fire. I don,,t think Dust did not had a very small team especially in the last year. Valkerie will be the same ,i guess.
But hey ,WIS is not coming ,So that Mittens guy and his Goons can go to sleep ,with no worries and dream about the next big ship.
Yeah I find it odd too. CCP have three other projects at which they are throwing money, but it's avatars that will kill EVE? Yeah right.
That's called demography control, you focus on a population and please it as the rest leave the game. The customers you don't have, are not your business, literally. Want WiS? Hit the door. Want new stuff? Hit the door. Want the same old porridge, reheated over and over and served in biannual "iterations"? Kiss our sweet ass! Are you OK we spend your money not in your game but elsewhere? Here's our bank account!
The customers CCP doesn't have, they are not their business. And the more EVE players buy exactly what CCP delivers for EVE, the less trouble they'll have & the more they can focus on more promising business venues... or else.
Anyway I won't buy that Valkyrie will be OR only until CCP forces me to believe they're willing to go stupid and beyond... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
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Taiwanistan
318
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 06:51:00 -
[1291] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:I have given up the hope to ever see WIS ,or EIS as some people say lately. But it is funny to see ,that nobody is whining about the failure DUST is and the fact that DEV,s are going to be taken away from EvE in favor for a new spaceshooter. And when it comes to a tiny Devteam ,working on WIS ,an EvE related feature the Goons are on fire. I don,,t think Dust did not had a very small team especially in the last year. Valkerie will be the same ,i guess.
But hey ,WIS is not coming ,So that Mittens guy and his Goons can go to sleep ,with no worries and dream about the next big ship.
Yeah I find it odd too. CCP have three other projects at which they are throwing money, but it's avatars that will kill EVE? Yeah right. That's called demography control, you focus on a population and please it as the rest leave the game. The customers you don't have, are not your business, literally. Want WiS? Hit the door. Want new stuff? Hit the door. Want the same old porridge, reheated over and over and served in biannual "iterations"? Kiss our sweet ass! Are you OK we spend your money not in your game but elsewhere? Here's our bank account! The customers CCP doesn't have, they are not their business. And the more EVE players buy exactly what CCP delivers for EVE, the less trouble they'll have & the more they can focus on more promising business venues... or else. Anyway I won't buy that Valkyrie will be OR only until CCP forces me to believe they're willing to go stupid and beyond... hey can you stop that battered spouse syndrome crap? and just hit the door already? why are you still paying for a sub or grinding plexes, get a clue, eve's been dying for 10 years, TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
962
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 10:55:00 -
[1292] - Quote
The focus on ships is great but really, CCP are just doing what they should have done years ago. After the balancing is done, eve will still have to same old tired gameplay devoid of imagination and excitement.
If avatar gameplay was added to what we have now (or will have in the near future) eve could be one of the best games on the market... But that will not happen because CCP are either too scared of taking a risk with eve or are grossly incompetent when is comes to game design theory (see Dust 514, captains quarter and nex store) Putting work in since 2010. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
67
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 14:07:00 -
[1293] - Quote
Rhes wrote: What is your fursona?
brah, you should consider to stop whining like spoiled brats, HTFU and disengage in such ridiculous and vomit-inducing activities like shooting statues, burn Jitas and other attention seeking activities.
Taiwanistan wrote: hey can you stop that battered spouse syndrome crap? and just hit the door already? why are you still paying for a sub or grinding plexes, get a clue, eve's been dying for 10 years,
being mean to the lady bic boi? come at me brah, im right here! want some of this bic boi? somehow ur the one who strikes me as a wife batterer, if you had any in the first place, which is highly unlikely given the obvious sperg and fear you've been showing towards women. what's this fear that players from other games such as WoW and Second Life would come play EVE about? Are you that afraid that they beat you at it and banalized your sad existance? or just hate women in general? |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 15:17:00 -
[1294] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: What is your fursona?
brah, you should consider to stop whining like spoiled brats, HTFU and disengage in such ridiculous and vomit-inducing activities like shooting statues, burn Jitas and other attention seeking activities. Taiwanistan wrote: hey can you stop that battered spouse syndrome crap? and just hit the door already? why are you still paying for a sub or grinding plexes, get a clue, eve's been dying for 10 years,
being mean to the lady bic boi? come at me brah, im right here! want some of this bic boi? somehow ur the one who strikes me as a wife batterer, if you had any in the first place, which is highly unlikely given the obvious sperg and fear you've been showing towards women. what's this fear that players from other games such as WoW and Second Life would come play EVE about? Are you that afraid that they beat you at it and banalized your sad existance? or just hate women in general?
I still want to hear about your first fursuit.
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Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC The Last Chancers.
720
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 15:38:00 -
[1295] - Quote
Furries? Wha? Did someone get all stirred up watching Miley Cyrus?
Anyone who wants EVE to be more of the same is going to hate the next three years, minimum. That much is becoming obvious. Jester just mentioned that the "dream with me" presentation CCP Seagull gave at the last Fanfest has coalesced into a three-year plan.
EVE is about spaceships now, but that was never the extent of CCP's vision, and it never will be. Think big or play LoL. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
67
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 16:29:00 -
[1296] - Quote
Rhes wrote: I still want to hear about your first fursuit.
now ur going OCD in forum thread replies. get that checked brah |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
50
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:02:00 -
[1297] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: I still want to hear about your first fursuit.
now ur going OCD in forum thread replies. get that checked brah
Just based on your username I bet it has feathers.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
224
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:10:00 -
[1298] - Quote
Rhes wrote:raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: I still want to hear about your first fursuit.
now ur going OCD in forum thread replies. get that checked brah Just based on your username I bet it has feathers.
Based on your lip, I bet you like walruses. New CQ prototype |
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
601
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:20:00 -
[1299] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Rhes wrote:raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: I still want to hear about your first fursuit.
now ur going OCD in forum thread replies. get that checked brah Just based on your username I bet it has feathers. Based on your lip, I bet you like walruses.
+9001 For your New CQ Prototype. Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:23:00 -
[1300] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Based on your lip, I bet you like walruses.
Sure I like walruses. That doesn't mean I put on a walrus suit and hump somebody wearing a squirrel suit.
People who like animals are great. Furries are disgusting and CCP shouldn't be encouraging them to play Eve.
|
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
67
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:47:00 -
[1301] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Just based on your username I bet it has feathers.
Sure I like walruses. That doesn't mean I put on a walrus suit and hump somebody wearing a squirrel suit.
People who like animals are great. Furries are disgusting and CCP shouldn't be encouraging them to play Eve.
i think you forgot to take ur medz today brah, got take em before gettin worse |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
224
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:54:00 -
[1302] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Based on your lip, I bet you like walruses. Sure I like walruses. That doesn't mean I put on a walrus suit and hump somebody wearing a squirrel suit. People who like animals are great. Furries are disgusting and CCP shouldn't be encouraging them to play Eve.
Really? When CCP was encouraging them to play EVE? Oh, i see, you see furries everywhere. Too much time spend with goons,and their something awful forums I suppose.
New CQ prototype |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1689
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 19:53:00 -
[1303] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Rhes wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Based on your lip, I bet you like walruses. Sure I like walruses. That doesn't mean I put on a walrus suit and hump somebody wearing a squirrel suit. People who like animals are great. Furries are disgusting and CCP shouldn't be encouraging them to play Eve. Really? When CCP was encouraging them to play EVE? Oh, i see, you see furries everywhere. Too much time spend with goons,and their something awful forums I suppose.
He noticed a split second and a picture too late that his inclination was not as widespread as he thought... What's funny is that the first place I heard the word "fursona" was here, and from his mouth. He may be really in with it. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 19:58:00 -
[1304] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Rhes wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Based on your lip, I bet you like walruses. Sure I like walruses. That doesn't mean I put on a walrus suit and hump somebody wearing a squirrel suit. People who like animals are great. Furries are disgusting and CCP shouldn't be encouraging them to play Eve. Really? When CCP was encouraging them to play EVE? Oh, i see, you see furries everywhere. Too much time spend with goons,and their something awful forums I suppose.
Walking in Stations and other roleplayer nonsense = catering to furries. Don't let it happen to your game.
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC The Last Chancers.
725
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 20:08:00 -
[1305] - Quote
So, here's a curious thing: CCP wanted to change the name of the skill Spaceship Command to Spaceship Piloting, and when the general consensus was NOOOOOOO, CCP Ytterbium revoked the change at least until the new name made more sense. Now, look at the way the (shield tanked!) Executioner is being piloted in the new intro video.
A bit of extra circumstantial evidence: The art presentation at fanfest talking about how the new ship models are much more in-depth and demonstrating retracting and extending hinged parts on a remodeled Crucifier; CSM Mike Azariah tweeting that at least one member of CSM 8 yelled "holy ****!" during the art presentation today.
Walking in Ships? Where do you guys think this is going? Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Cpt Tirel
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
44
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 20:14:00 -
[1306] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Sure I like walruses. That doesn't mean I put on a walrus suit and hump somebody wearing a squirrel suit.
People who like animals are great. Furries are disgusting and CCP shouldn't be encouraging them to play Eve.
Youre delusions of what WIS is about are amusing. CCP has said they planned on adding exploration type avatar-gameplay in this very thread. You expect to find animals in space exploration and extra-vehicular activity? |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 20:57:00 -
[1307] - Quote
Cpt Tirel wrote:Rhes wrote:Sure I like walruses. That doesn't mean I put on a walrus suit and hump somebody wearing a squirrel suit.
People who like animals are great. Furries are disgusting and CCP shouldn't be encouraging them to play Eve.
Youre delusions of what WIS is about are amusing. CCP has said they planned on adding exploration type avatar-gameplay in this very thread. You expect to find animals in space exploration and extra-vehicular activity?
I expect company that makes an internet spaceship game to focus on internet spaceships and not avatar based Barbie crap that only appeals to roleplayers. CCP wasted two years on that crap and the game almost died because of it. Anybody asking for CCP to intentionally kill their game should be banned. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
67
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 21:01:00 -
[1308] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Walking in Stations and other roleplayer nonsense = catering to furries. Don't let it happen to your game.
I expect company that makes an internet spaceship game to focus on internet spaceships and not avatar based Barbie crap that only appeals to roleplayers. CCP wasted two years on that crap and the game almost died because of it. Anybody asking for CCP to intentionally kill their game should be banned.
you've worsened brah. Lol |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
227
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 21:20:00 -
[1309] - Quote
Cpt Tirel wrote:Rhes wrote:Sure I like walruses. That doesn't mean I put on a walrus suit and hump somebody wearing a squirrel suit.
People who like animals are great. Furries are disgusting and CCP shouldn't be encouraging them to play Eve.
Youre delusions of what WIS is about are amusing. CCP has said they planned on adding exploration type avatar-gameplay in this very thread. You expect to find animals in space exploration and extra-vehicular activity? Being Brutor and goon he probably would find animals there, or more likely the animals would find him. Slaver hounds exactly. New CQ prototype |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
766
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 21:51:00 -
[1310] - Quote
Meanwhile Star Citizen is launching prototype of their "WiS" module today. Unfortunately there is no avatar customization and no common halls yet - otherwise I could add $30-60 to their existing $16mil pre-order pool. |
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Flamespar
Woof Club
664
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 23:27:00 -
[1311] - Quote
It would be good if CCP could come out and say if there will be any WiS content in the next three years. At least it would put an end to the endless speculation. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
602
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 23:31:00 -
[1312] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It would be good if CCP could come out and say if there will be any WiS content in the next three years. At least it would put an end to the endless speculation.
That would be nice but I doubt they would do it. As soon as they say so people who've stuck around hoping for WiS would jump ship. Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
281
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 00:09:00 -
[1313] - Quote
Rhes wrote:I expect company that makes an internet spaceship game to focus on internet spaceships and not avatar based Barbie crap that only appeals to roleplayers. CCP wasted two years on that crap and the game almost died because of it. Anybody asking for CCP to intentionally kill their game should be banned.
Yeah yeah, we get it. You suffer from a bad case of Pediophobia.
After you get some professional help please feel free to come back to this thread if you have something inteligent to add, otherwise stop derailing a good discussion.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 00:47:00 -
[1314] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Rhes wrote:I expect company that makes an internet spaceship game to focus on internet spaceships and not avatar based Barbie crap that only appeals to roleplayers. CCP wasted two years on that crap and the game almost died because of it. Anybody asking for CCP to intentionally kill their game should be banned. Yeah yeah, we get it. You suffer from a bad case of Pediophobia. After you get some professional help please feel free to come back to this thread if you have something inteligent to add, otherwise stop derailing a good discussion.
Your Quafe shirt is spiffy.
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
767
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 00:58:00 -
[1315] - Quote
So a bit of $$$ statistic about WiS prototype published in SC today:
- amount of pledges per day raised from $71k to $124k (+70%) - amount of pledges per hour raised from $4900 to $18100 (+250%) when it was published, $17.5k next hour
Roberts is making money on functionality rejected by CCP - $50k in a single day. And that's just a prototype published few hours ago without customization, female toons, common halls. |
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
602
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:17:00 -
[1316] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:So a bit of $$$ statistic about WiS prototype published in SC today:
- amount of pledges per day raised from $71k to $124k (+70%) - amount of pledges per hour raised from $4900 to $18100 (+250%) when it was published, $17.5k next hour
Roberts is making money on functionality rejected by CCP - $50k in a single day. And that's just a prototype published few hours ago without customization, female toons, common halls.
Where are all these sci-fi spaceship fans coming from? Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |
Flamespar
Woof Club
665
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:52:00 -
[1317] - Quote
Stegas Tyrano wrote:
Where are all these sci-fi spaceship fans coming from?
Probably lots of them are EVE players. You know, the silent lurkers that make up the majority of the playerbase. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1025
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:52:00 -
[1318] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Rhes wrote:I expect company that makes an internet spaceship game to focus on internet spaceships and not avatar based Barbie crap that only appeals to roleplayers. CCP wasted two years on that crap and the game almost died because of it. Anybody asking for CCP to intentionally kill their game should be banned. Yeah yeah, we get it. You suffer from a bad case of Pediophobia. After you get some professional help please feel free to come back to this thread if you have something inteligent to add, otherwise stop derailing a good discussion.
No,pls let him make himself look like a fool . Really........really????? Furries ??? really ????
The spacebarbie and emoting stuff was getting old,was it not ? R.S.I2014
|
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
116
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:50:00 -
[1319] - Quote
Rhes wrote:CCP wasted two years on that crap and the game almost died because of it. Anybody asking for CCP to intentionally kill their game should be banned. Stop posting this garbage. Nobody is asking CCP to kill the game. The only reason Incarna "almost killed" the game is that shitstorm caused by their "greed is good" leak, and overall Incarna content delivery. But if they did it right it would be just fine and maybe we'd be sitting in bars right now, playing cards or pool while chugging Quafes, and tossing ISK at exotic dancers.
That would bring so many more players in(fresh meat for veterans) and would actually turned into profits for CCP - instead of them having to cut down on the crew size.
But now we have players like you who get paralyzed in fear of any innovation or anything new brought into the game. You are one of those who is going to intentionally this game. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:34:00 -
[1320] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The spacebarbie and emoting stuff was getting old,was it not ?
It's all the same side of the roleplayer coin. These degenerates want to turn our wonderful spaceship game into a disgusting Second Life clone where they can indulge in their sick impulses. They almost killed the game two years ago...let's not let them do it again.
Eve is spaceships. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:36:00 -
[1321] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:The only reason Incarna "almost killed" the game is that shitstorm caused by their "greed is good" leak, and overall Incarna content delivery.
That was just the match that lit the flame. The fuel for the fire was the two years of wasted development time spent on WiS nonsense.
|
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
117
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:42:00 -
[1322] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:The only reason Incarna "almost killed" the game is that shitstorm caused by their "greed is good" leak, and overall Incarna content delivery. That was just the match that lit the flame. The fuel for the fire was the two years of wasted development time spent on WiS nonsense. Keep crying how it's waste of development time, because it will make sure it is a waste, since CCP is scared to even mention WiS anymore.
Enjoy your ship/module iterations :) +1% here/-1% there. That is all you will get as "expansions" now. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:45:00 -
[1323] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Keep crying how it's waste of development time, because it will make sure it is a waste, since CCP is scared to even mention WiS anymore.
You're welcome.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
667
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:38:00 -
[1324] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Rhes wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:The only reason Incarna "almost killed" the game is that shitstorm caused by their "greed is good" leak, and overall Incarna content delivery. That was just the match that lit the flame. The fuel for the fire was the two years of wasted development time spent on WiS nonsense. Keep crying how it's waste of development time, because it will make sure it is a waste, since CCP is scared to even mention WiS anymore. Enjoy your ship/module iterations :) +1% here/-1% there. That is all you will get as "expansions" now.
Dunno why you bother engaging with Rhes. He is capable of gibbering nonsense and that's about it.
I blocked it a while ago I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:18:00 -
[1325] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I blocked it a while ago
Blocking: the last bastion of the person who lost the argument. |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
224
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:32:00 -
[1326] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:I blocked it a while ago Blocking: the last bastion of the person who lost the argument.
Or it is because you seem to have a fascination with animal dressup mixed with sex. Kinda gross this obsession you have with it. Were talking about a space sim and you talk about walruses and squirls.
Few holloween incidents you not telling us about ? "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4553
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:02:00 -
[1327] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:I blocked it a while ago Blocking: the last bastion of the person who lost the argument. I have to agree, and I usually enjoy your posts.
I do wish your stance on this wasn't so over the top.
We all know what happened, and why. Very little of it had to do with the idea of avatar based game play. A fair amount of it had to do with very poor development and initial release decisions.
The concept is sound... very sound in fact. Some of the most promising games on the horizon are very similar to what Incarna was originally conceived to be, although truthfully even the best of them fall short of what Incarna should have been... could easily have been. If nothing else EVE Valkyrie might prove to be an ideal vehicle to blend Avatar's and fast paced star ship combat, although I doubt that will happen.
Now, although EVE is still an industry leader and innovator in many ways, in this aspect EVE is going to fall behind the curve. Other companies are picking up CCP's dropped ball and are running with it.
The only decision that CCP made that was worse than developing Incarna in the way that they did, and releasing it to us in that initial form, was taking a hands off attitude with it afterwards. That withdrawal is what truly makes all of the time and money spent a waste.
When Star Citizen proves that the concept of a blend of Avatar and Spaceship game play can work well if approached properly, I hope that many people that currently deride the concept as hopeless will give the matter a rethink. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:15:00 -
[1328] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:When Star Citizen proves that the concept of a blend of Avatar and Spaceship game play can work well if approached properly, I hope that many people that currently deride the concept as hopeless will give the matter a rethink.
I hope it's wildly successful so the furries and pedophiles will flock to that game and leave Eve alone.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4554
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:19:00 -
[1329] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:When Star Citizen proves that the concept of a blend of Avatar and Spaceship game play can work well if approached properly, I hope that many people that currently deride the concept as hopeless will give the matter a rethink. I hope it's wildly successful so the furries and pedophiles will flock to that game and leave Eve alone.
Ahhh, nevermind. I thought you were actually trying to be taken seriously in your stance towards Incarna.
Obviously I was mistaken. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4554
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:23:00 -
[1330] - Quote
Not that I think it will happen, but if games such as Star Citizen are so intuitive in their blend of avatar and star ship game play (and tremendously fun and popular because of that) that they end up burying EVE, you're probably going to feel pretty silly creating your first character to get your star ship combat fix. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:24:00 -
[1331] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Ahhh, nevermind. I thought you were actually trying to be taken seriously in your stance towards Incarna. Obviously I was mistaken.
Nope. I'm 100% serious about not wanting CCP to make the same mistake that almost killed the game two years ago.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4554
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:26:00 -
[1332] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ahhh, nevermind. I thought you were actually trying to be taken seriously in your stance towards Incarna. Obviously I was mistaken. Nope. I'm 100% serious about not wanting CCP to make the same mistake that almost killed the game two years ago. I know. We just disagree about what those mistakes were.
You think it was developing avatar based game play.
I think it was developing avatar technology without also developing sound game play to support it, and then badly bungling the release on top of it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Taiwanistan
318
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:37:00 -
[1333] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Rhes wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ahhh, nevermind. I thought you were actually trying to be taken seriously in your stance towards Incarna. Obviously I was mistaken. Nope. I'm 100% serious about not wanting CCP to make the same mistake that almost killed the game two years ago. I know. We just disagree about what those mistakes were. You think it was developing avatar based game play. I think it was developing avatar technology without also developing sound game play to support it, and then badly bungling the release on top of it.
the problem with wis is that some people think that second life freakshow, a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a player-run "bar" is acceptable as sound game play. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1695
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 07:00:00 -
[1334] - Quote
Whatever we discuss here, CCP has already made their "Hallellujah Plan" and it has been shared to the CSM and the 5% of it that won't be NDA'ed to hell will be released for populace comsumption over the next months.
I don't feel like asking the CSM wether the Hallellujah Plan includes WiS, because I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". The "miracle deal" are fully animated ships (and probably decal customization as they've been promising that for a while).
That makes sense as even the smaller SC craft makes EVE look bad, but that's about it.
EVE was born without avatars because of constraints, and will reach the end of its natural term without avatars because of constraints.
People will be amazed that a such a soul-less game ever gathered 500,000 or 1,000,000 followers around the prettiest space still-lifes in spreadsheet land, but looking at the avatars released in 2011, and their abandonment, also will understand why EVE didn't stood a chance against more immersive games. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Flamespar
Woof Club
668
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 08:37:00 -
[1335] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Whatever we discuss here, CCP has already made their "Hallellujah Plan" and it has been shared to the CSM and the 5% of it that won't be NDA'ed to hell will be released for populace comsumption over the next months.
I don't feel like asking the CSM wether the Hallellujah Plan includes WiS, because I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". The "miracle deal" are fully animated ships (and probably decal customization as they've been promising that for a while).
That makes sense as even the smaller SC craft makes EVE look bad, but that's about it.
EVE was born without avatars because of constraints, and will reach the end of its natural term without avatars because of constraints.
People will be amazed that a such a soul-less game ever gathered 500,000 or 1,000,000 followers around the prettiest space still-lifes in spreadsheet land, but looking at the avatars released in 2011, and their abandonment, also will understand why EVE didn't stood a chance against more immersive games.
CCp should just come and say if there will meaningful avatar gameplay in the next three years.
Personally I think EVE is starting to lose its competitive edge.
Threads like this demonstrate that there is huge player support for meaningful avatar gameplay. Especially when the best counter arguments involve "furries" and "emoting dudes". The exploration prototype has support both within CCP and the community, it just depends when CCP decides to implement it.
We want it within the next three years.
CCP follow through with your vision already. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
962
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 10:14:00 -
[1336] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: We want it within the next three years.
I'm not one of those guys that throw around the threat of unsubbing my accounts but i will quit if we don't get something new and innovative in eve next year.
Whether that new content is avatar basted or not, i don't care but if all we are going to get for the next 3 years is variations and tweaks to the content we already have, i'll probably switch to one of the other space MMO currently in development... Eve may not be dying but the clock is definitely ticking.
Putting work in since 2010. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1696
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 12:46:00 -
[1337] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Whatever we discuss here, CCP has already made their "Hallellujah Plan" and it has been shared to the CSM and the 5% of it that won't be NDA'ed to hell will be released for populace comsumption over the next months.
I don't feel like asking the CSM wether the Hallellujah Plan includes WiS, because I'm pretty sure the answer is "no". The "miracle deal" are fully animated ships (and probably decal customization as they've been promising that for a while).
That makes sense as even the smaller SC craft makes EVE look bad, but that's about it.
EVE was born without avatars because of constraints, and will reach the end of its natural term without avatars because of constraints.
People will be amazed that a such a soul-less game ever gathered 500,000 or 1,000,000 followers around the prettiest space still-lifes in spreadsheet land, but looking at the avatars released in 2011, and their abandonment, also will understand why EVE didn't stood a chance against more immersive games. CCp should just come and say if there will meaningful avatar gameplay in the next three years. Personally I think EVE is starting to lose its competitive edge. Threads like this demonstrate that there is huge player support for meaningful avatar gameplay. Especially when the best counter arguments involve "furries" and "emoting dudes". The exploration prototype has support both within CCP and the community, it just depends when CCP decides to implement it. We want it within the next three years. CCP follow through with your vision already.
You know, CCP Seagull (aka the Dev with the Plan) is a LARPer (Live Action Role Player). In a perfect world, that would mean that avatar content and roleplay content would be around the corner, as a part of the 3 year Hallellujah Plan.
But this is EVE.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1696
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 13:15:00 -
[1338] - Quote
Man I love it. No matter how pessimistic i am... I am still too optimistic!
CCP Soundwave, GamesCon 2013:
Quote:"the door will not open ever!"
BUT WAIT!!
CCP Soundwave, EVE Forums:
CCP Soundwave wrote:Hey That was just me joking around. The actual future of the door (or more accurately Incarna) is a much larger question that we'll answer once we find the correct approach.It was said with a smile, so don't worry!
And now, a final touch: EVE's development plan for the next 3 years already is done.
So...
...by August 2013, CCP still was thinking what to do with Incarna... ...by September 2013, CCP already haves a development plan that will last until 2016...
This means that Incarna will not be developed at least until past 2016, as a part of a potential Plan-After-Hallellujah-Plan to be designed along that year (2016).
More than ever, Waiting is Stupid. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Lateris
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 15:25:00 -
[1339] - Quote
I do love my space ships but it is a bit silly "not" to gradually add content to the CQ's every expansion. I can see why CCP has chosen integration with other game engines due to all our reactions over this subject. I think the root of the problem is the clothing cash shop.
Perhaps the way to approach WiS is to 1.) eliminate that cash shop for clothing and allow the New Eden Pilots to supply the clothing items on the market. 2.) Allow New Eden pilots to craft most of the clothing items, share it with us. 3.) Allow us to craft architectural items that were planned for WiS. 4.) Or share the market with us./
Just a small idea- besides I would bet WoD is making progress in tech that can be transferred over? But, here we go with resources again and that is the key issue. This takes a lot of time to make. I agree and feel that space comes first. But lets approach this together unifying options for the gamers\customers for WiS.
Are there tools for the game engine to streamline the process?
.:=[ObscuriLateris.com--áMining Corp]=:. .:=[ObscuriSoft.com- Soft Development]=:. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
227
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 15:35:00 -
[1340] - Quote
Quote:"the door will not open ever!"
I prefer to think they have made their minds llike that already and once and for all time, too much waiting... New CQ prototype |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3367
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 15:51:00 -
[1341] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:More than ever, Waiting is Stupid. So.. quit. Don't be stupid.
Otherwise your continual doomsday speculation and pontification that EVE will fail if CCP does not build the features you want for RP is laughable.
Go get a Second Life or Planet Entropia account, and you can get your RP Barmaid, dress-up, and strutting/emoting freakishness on today with no waiting.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 16:32:00 -
[1342] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:the problem with wis is that some people think that second life freakshow, a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a player-run "bar" is acceptable as sound game play.
I remember right before Incarna was released and people were talking about having dance parties in stations. It was such a relief when CCP came to their senses and went back to focusing on real Eve content.
|
Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
603
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 17:06:00 -
[1343] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:the problem with wis is that some people think that second life freakshow, a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a player-run "bar" is acceptable as sound game play. I remember right before Incarna was released and people were talking about having dance parties in stations. It was such a relief when CCP came to their senses and went back to focusing on real Eve content.
I'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic. Herping your derp since 19Potato --á[Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 17:14:00 -
[1344] - Quote
Stegas Tyrano wrote:Rhes wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:the problem with wis is that some people think that second life freakshow, a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a player-run "bar" is acceptable as sound game play. I remember right before Incarna was released and people were talking about having dance parties in stations. It was such a relief when CCP came to their senses and went back to focusing on real Eve content. I'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic.
I'm pretty sure they weren't. I guess you don't realize how damaging roleplayers can be.
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
183
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 17:39:00 -
[1345] - Quote
Rhes wrote: I guess you don't realize how damaging roleplayers can be.
Damaging? Maybe.
Still, considering that roleplayers tend to be the most loyal customers of MMO devs, it's amazing how most MMO's today largely ignore them. Whereas passionate pvp'ers and pve'rs will often ragequit if their precius game balance is disturbed (even if it's to genuinely balance it), roleplayers tend to stay as long as they enjoy the setting. Of course you can upset roleplayers too, like with the Mists of Pandaria expansion for WoW that generally was considered jumping the shark by Blizzard's story team, and of course roleplaying isn't an exclusive activity, so pve and pvp changes can make them mad as well, but to them changes to the latest dungeon or battleground generally isn't the be all end all of the game. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
230
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 17:43:00 -
[1346] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULwE6wHbKfc New CQ prototype |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1026
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 18:13:00 -
[1347] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Stegas Tyrano wrote:Rhes wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:the problem with wis is that some people think that second life freakshow, a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a player-run "bar" is acceptable as sound game play. I remember right before Incarna was released and people were talking about having dance parties in stations. It was such a relief when CCP came to their senses and went back to focusing on real Eve content. I'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic. I'm pretty sure they weren't. I guess you don't realize how damaging roleplayers can be.
I don,t know why roleplayers are damaging ,so please tell us your story then ? What sort of roleplayers damaged you in such way that you keep thinking about .........Furries?
R.S.I2014
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1699
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:58:00 -
[1348] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Rhes wrote:Stegas Tyrano wrote:Rhes wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:the problem with wis is that some people think that second life freakshow, a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a player-run "bar" is acceptable as sound game play. I remember right before Incarna was released and people were talking about having dance parties in stations. It was such a relief when CCP came to their senses and went back to focusing on real Eve content. I'm pretty sure they were being sarcastic. I'm pretty sure they weren't. I guess you don't realize how damaging roleplayers can be. I don,t know why roleplayers are damaging ,so please tell us your story then ? What sort of roleplayers damaged you in such way that you keep thinking about .........Furries?
They told him it was just a joke, and he believed it. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Tarn Kugisa
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
439
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:28:00 -
[1349] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote: Moonbase Alpha
CCP we need aura to have text-to-speech capabilities I Endorse this Product and/or Service EVE Online Battle Recorder When I press F1 I get ISK |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1026
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:29:00 -
[1350] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Ah that explains a lot ...........poor guy
So we basically back to only the ongoing spacebarbie and emoting stuff. Oow , i forgot the WIS toke 2 years stuff except it was a complete new game engine that toke 2 years.
Only to be implemented in a very poorly way. But hey, it is the fault of emoters and roleplayers (furries to one guy)
i guess the real emoters are the one that don,t want them. R.S.I2014
|
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
67
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 21:43:00 -
[1351] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
lololol GÖÑ Remi Gaillard check out the kangoroo vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81szj1vpEu8&feature=related |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
67
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 21:44:00 -
[1352] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRXJf-ANy2A shark attack also epic |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
60
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 22:22:00 -
[1353] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Oow , i forgot the WIS toke 2 years stuff except it was a complete new game engine that toke 2 years.
Yes, two years where real Eve gameplay was ignored.
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1026
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 02:32:00 -
[1354] - Quote
Rhes wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Oow , i forgot the WIS toke 2 years stuff except it was a complete new game engine that toke 2 years. Yes, two years where real Eve gameplay was ignored.
So you tell me now that this whole carbon stuff is a waist?
R.S.I2014
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1701
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 07:34:00 -
[1355] - Quote
Rhes wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Oow , i forgot the WIS toke 2 years stuff except it was a complete new game engine that toke 2 years. Yes, two years where real Eve gameplay was ignored.
Yay, what has CCP done with the new game engine and which wasn't possble before? Aside of everything since Crucible minus the ship restats? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
184
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 07:45:00 -
[1356] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Yes, two years where real Eve gameplay was ignored.
Can we stop perpetuating this bullshit? Not giving candy to 0.0 candyasses every expansion (that was basically focus of every expansion up until Tyrannis) is not "ignoring real eve gameplay", but focusing on other areas of the game.
Patch notes for Incarna: http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-incarna-1-1 Patch notes for Incursion: http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-incursion-1 Patch notes for Tyrannis: http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-tyrannis-1
To me looks like there's been plenty of stuff done and new gameplay was added each new expansion. Now you can argue that yeah, not all of them were feature-complete upon release, and iteration on them was largely ignored after their expansion cycle was done, which is fair criticism. However, they did not ignore eve gameplay, as you can clearly see in the numerous balances, fixes, features added in each expansion, many still pertaining to issues involving 0.0 and low. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
67
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 09:04:00 -
[1357] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote: Can we stop perpetuating this bullshit?
lol goonsh*t nullbear member... what would you expect... watching them spread desperate propaganda is like watching Khaddafii or Bashar Al-Assad on TV complaining about how EU and USA dont want to engage in peace talks while they are pounding the backyard with artillery and sarin gas. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1026
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 10:17:00 -
[1358] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Rhes wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Oow , i forgot the WIS toke 2 years stuff except it was a complete new game engine that toke 2 years. Yes, two years where real Eve gameplay was ignored. Yay, what has CCP done with the new game engine and which wasn't possble before? Aside of everything since Crucible minus the ship restats?
we could go back to before the Carbon engine ,remove the ships made after that or better, go back to the old shaders. Remove turret and missile animation as well , before carbon not possible.
You know what ,remove the carbon engine and let CCP try to do the same, they did the last few years
R.S.I2014
|
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
609
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 12:37:00 -
[1359] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
we could go back to before the Carbon engine ,remove the ships made after that or better, go back to the old shaders. Remove turret and missile animation as well , before carbon not possible.
You know what ,remove the carbon engine and let CCP try to do the same, they did the last few years
Carbon(TM) isn't an engine.
It's CCP's internal name for their generic recoding of their legacy code.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1026
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 12:57:00 -
[1360] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
we could go back to before the Carbon engine ,remove the ships made after that or better, go back to the old shaders. Remove turret and missile animation as well , before carbon not possible.
You know what ,remove the carbon engine and let CCP try to do the same, they did the last few years
Carbon(TM) isn't an engine. It's CCP's internal name for their generic recoding of their legacy code.
ok then then roll back the recoding ,sorry for my mistake here R.S.I2014
|
|
Sarah Targaryen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 17:34:00 -
[1361] - Quote
Ok... This whole eva thing and actually getting to play with your avatars is a cool idea. But honestly, I would just be satisfied if there was a social aspect to it. Let me walk around inside of hubs and stations, see other peoples avatars, go to chat bars or actually have to walk to different shops or places for different things instead of just a GUI. That really wouldn't be THAT hard would it? I'm honestly completely stunned to NOT see that in this game. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
95
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 18:15:00 -
[1362] - Quote
Sarah Targaryen wrote:Ok... This whole eva thing and actually getting to play with your avatars is a cool idea. But honestly, I would just be satisfied if there was a social aspect to it. Let me walk around inside of hubs and stations, see other peoples avatars, go to chat bars or actually have to walk to different shops or places for different things instead of just a GUI. That really wouldn't be THAT hard would it? I'm honestly completely stunned to NOT see that in this game.
Let me tell you about a little game called Second Life...
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
95
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 18:16:00 -
[1363] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Rhes wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Oow , i forgot the WIS toke 2 years stuff except it was a complete new game engine that toke 2 years. Yes, two years where real Eve gameplay was ignored. So you tell me now that this whole carbon stuff is a waist?
Well waists, chests, arms and legs, heads, etc.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
677
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 08:07:00 -
[1364] - Quote
Sarah Targaryen wrote:Ok... This whole eva thing and actually getting to play with your avatars is a cool idea. But honestly, I would just be satisfied if there was a social aspect to it. Let me walk around inside of hubs and stations, see other peoples avatars, go to chat bars or actually have to walk to different shops or places for different things instead of just a GUI. That really wouldn't be THAT hard would it? I'm honestly completely stunned to NOT see that in this game.
I vaguely recall a DEv saying that when they do the exploration thing, the social spaces become easier to implement. I'm happy for them to do the EVA first.
You can always socialise in a rapidly decompressing derelict. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
David Kir
Tailender
77
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 14:54:00 -
[1365] - Quote
I wonder how many times I've said this...
The Incarna uproar:
1) was not caused by WiS, but by the implementation of vanity items and pay-to-win content (golden ammo, eh?)
2) wasn't really as much of a thing as it's told to be.
As for those who equate Avatar-related content to "emoting furries/sickos", please stop posting and making fools out of yourselves.
|
David Kir
Tailender
77
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 15:02:00 -
[1366] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Blah blah blah REAL EVE GAMEPLAY
Check out the Tyrannis to Incarna patch notes, you will be pleasantly surprised. |
David Kir
Tailender
78
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 15:55:00 -
[1367] - Quote
Double post, forum drafts be damned. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
883
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 16:54:00 -
[1368] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Sarah Targaryen wrote:Ok... This whole eva thing and actually getting to play with your avatars is a cool idea. But honestly, I would just be satisfied if there was a social aspect to it. Let me walk around inside of hubs and stations, see other peoples avatars, go to chat bars or actually have to walk to different shops or places for different things instead of just a GUI. That really wouldn't be THAT hard would it? I'm honestly completely stunned to NOT see that in this game. Let me tell you about a little game called Second Life...
Let me tell you about a game that has all these things and is space related called Star Citizen. Hope goons like you will enjoy yourselves when your targets will be enjoying themselves there. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
96
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 17:14:00 -
[1369] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Let me tell you about a game that has all these things and is space related called Star Citizen. Hope goons like you will enjoy yourselves when your targets will be enjoying themselves there.
I'm not worried. Everything I read about Star Citizen points to it just being microtransaction hell. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
96
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 17:18:00 -
[1370] - Quote
David Kir wrote:The Incarna uproar:
1) was not caused by WiS, but by the implementation of vanity items and pay-to-win content (golden ammo, eh?)
Just repeating this lie over and over again doesn't make it true. The uproar was over the fact that after ignoring real Eve content for two years all we got was a room with a couch and a hilariously bad attempt at a microtransaction store.
If you want proof just look at the steadily increasing subscription numbers from when CCP announced they were going back to focusing on spaceships. If there was some huge crowd of Eve players who couldn't live without Space Barbies they would have left by now and subs would be decreasing.
|
|
Taiwanistan
319
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 17:35:00 -
[1371] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Rhes wrote:Sarah Targaryen wrote:Ok... This whole eva thing and actually getting to play with your avatars is a cool idea. But honestly, I would just be satisfied if there was a social aspect to it. Let me walk around inside of hubs and stations, see other peoples avatars, go to chat bars or actually have to walk to different shops or places for different things instead of just a GUI. That really wouldn't be THAT hard would it? I'm honestly completely stunned to NOT see that in this game. Let me tell you about a little game called Second Life... Let me tell you about a game that has all these things and is space related called Star Citizen. Hope goons like you will enjoy yourselves when your targets will be enjoying themselves there. tell me about why you people refuse to play second life and run your dream bar there right now? TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
David Kir
Tailender
78
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 19:19:00 -
[1372] - Quote
So, have you read those patch notes? Read them.
Then tell me again how CCP kept ignoring the game itself for two years, while releasing Tyrannis and Incursion.
Tell me again how all of this lasted two years, ignoring the fact that the Dominion-Incarna gap was less than 18 months.
Tell me again how much has the playerbase grown, given that:
a) CCP's "EvE playercount" now includes Serenity, which it did not before incarna b) CCP caters to multiboxers, with a large part of the EvE playerbase dividing its gaming time between several accounts.
Tell me again how do you think the playerbase would have it regarding WiS, despite the fact that the feedback CCP gets from this is (quoting Unifex) "overwhelmingly positive".
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
100
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 19:37:00 -
[1373] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Tell me again how do you think the playerbase would have it regarding WiS, despite the fact that the feedback CCP gets from this is (quoting Unifex) "overwhelmingly positive".
A handful of furries and their alts isn't going to stand up to the massive number of sub cancellations the game suffered after Incarna was released. Subscription numbers are ultimately the only feedback that really matters.
|
David Kir
Tailender
78
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 19:55:00 -
[1374] - Quote
Rhes wrote:David Kir wrote:Tell me again how do you think the playerbase would have it regarding WiS, despite the fact that the feedback CCP gets from this is (quoting Unifex) "overwhelmingly positive". A handful of furries and their alts isn't going to stand up to the massive number of sub cancellations the game suffered after Incarna was released. Subscription numbers are ultimately the only feedback that really matters.
"massive number" Hard data required. Proof.
Again, equating WiS to "furries and alts" is silly.
Avatar-related content can be as complex and PvP-oriented as EvE currently is.
Your arguments are lacking, your opinion is biased.
How can you consider subscriptions as "the only feedback that matters" when talking about features in proposal?
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
101
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 20:03:00 -
[1375] - Quote
David Kir wrote:How can you consider subscriptions as "the only feedback that matters" when talking about features in proposal?
Because in a subscription game the number of subscribers is the most important indicator of how well the game is doing. It's not a difficult concept.
If features are added that the subscribers don't like (like WiS) then people cancel their subscriptions.
If features are added that the subscribers do like (like spaceships and the industry that support them) then people keep paying their subscriptions and new people join so the game grows.
I feel kind of bad for you that you can't just see the truth of how this works.
|
David Kir
Tailender
78
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 20:07:00 -
[1376] - Quote
Rhes wrote:David Kir wrote:How can you consider subscriptions as "the only feedback that matters" when talking about features in proposal?
Because in a subscription game the number of subscribers is the most important indicator of how well the game is doing. It's not a difficult concept. If features are added that the subscribers don't like (like WiS) then people cancel their subscriptions. If features are added that the subscribers do like (like spaceships and the industry that support them) then people keep paying their subscriptions and new people join so the game grows. I feel kind of bad for you that you can't just see the truth of how this works.
Proposal.
Features that are yet to be implemented.
Features that have not been added.
So, have you read those patch notes and checked out how much did the Incarna development cycle last? Also, the proof? |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20062
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 20:47:00 -
[1377] - Quote
Besides: The subscriptions did not drop because of WiS or the plans for it back then, if anything, that would brought more subs down the line, no: They mostly dropped because of the NEX store and the plans for THAT... pity that CCP was so burned by the experience that they concluded the whole "Avatar" concept was too risky.
There still can be meaningful avatar gameplay, though (PvE and PvP), and CCP shouldn't neglect the idea for too long, since the upcoming competition will have it too... just saying. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
736
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 20:58:00 -
[1378] - Quote
The irony of the latest attempt to derail this thread is that the Goons have a large and remarkable presence on Second LIfe, whose highly customizable environment has allowed them to engage in all kinds of shenanigans, some of which make it into the gaming press. SL is pretty much a Goon paradise... well, at least for those Goons with a tablespoon of coding skill. Try as you might, you can't make huge pink phalluses rain from the sky on someone else's event in EVE.
It may never occur to the nay sayers that some of the people who cancelled their accounts in the wake of Incarna were people who wanted Incarna, ate up all the cool demos and devoured all the news about station interiors, and then ragequit when all they got was a buggy and unoptimized Minmatar CQ. If you overpromise and underdeliver, your customers get mad. Duh. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 01:44:00 -
[1379] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Proposal.
Features that are yet to be implemented.
Features that have not been added.
You act like they didn't already try WiS. It was called the Incarna expansion and obviously you didn't play when it was released. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20068
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 01:52:00 -
[1380] - Quote
Rhes wrote:You act like they didn't already try WiS. It was called the Incarna expansion and obviously you didn't play when it was released.
I know, reading only what you want to read is a big thing on forums, but please try anyways... Incarna was not WiS, it was demo CQs and a cash shop, and that's what turned people off. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 02:05:00 -
[1381] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Rhes wrote:You act like they didn't already try WiS. It was called the Incarna expansion and obviously you didn't play when it was released. I know, reading only what you want to read is a big thing on forums, but please try anyways... Incarna was not WiS, it was demo CQs and a cash shop, and that's what turned people off.
I'm not the one with the comprehension problem. Incarna (which included a form of WiS) was a failure and people are asking that CCP once again ignore real Eve gameplay and waste more resources on further iterations of WiS. It's madness. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 02:09:00 -
[1382] - Quote
If you furries and space barbie enthusiasts really want to know the future of WiS you should ask your local CSM rep the status of Team Avatar... |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20070
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 02:42:00 -
[1383] - Quote
Rhes wrote:If you furries and space barbie enthusiasts really want to know the future of WiS you should ask your local CSM rep the status of Team Avatar...
Yea, that's the reason why there is DUST... and Valkyrie... CCP is very well aware that the EVE universe has more potential then just spaceships, and they will do something to expand on the current gameplay/connect it with all the other games at some point. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 02:46:00 -
[1384] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Rhes wrote:If you furries and space barbie enthusiasts really want to know the future of WiS you should ask your local CSM rep the status of Team Avatar... Yea, that's the reason why there is DUST... and Valkyrie... CCP is very well aware that the EVE universe has more potential then just spaceships, and they will do something to expand on the current gameplay/connect it with all the other games at some point.
You should really find out the official status of Team Avatar. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20070
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 03:09:00 -
[1385] - Quote
Rhes wrote:You should really find out the official status of Team Avatar.
I know it was disbanded and integrated into the DUST team, but that still doesn't mean the project itself is dead. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services Russian International Allegiance
263
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 03:17:00 -
[1386] - Quote
Rhes wrote:You act like they didn't already try WiS. It was called the Incarna expansion and obviously you didn't play when it was released.
You mean: CCP's marketing department slapped "Incarna" on that infamous expansion and tried to convince everyone that this was the WiS we had been waiting for ...
That reminds me of Tyrannis and what PI (planetary interaction) was at release. Remember ? That was before POCOs could be shot at.
Now Incarna had more to offer than just disappointingly little content compared to Tyrannis.
We also got a cash shop right at the time where many MMOs turned F2P. Pricing in the NEX store was anything but "micro"-transactions. Players also had reasonable fear that other items than clothing might be introduced in the cash shop ... after all the NEX store itself was rather a surprise.
... but let's not dwell on past mistakes.
I hope that EVE:Valkyrie gets a good start, that ship balancing goes through smoothly, then some more 0.0 and POS fixes ... and then hopefully Incarna.
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
200
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 06:56:00 -
[1387] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Try as you might, you can't make huge pink phalluses rain from the sky on someone else's event in EVE.
But you should. CCP, make it happen. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1747
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 07:15:00 -
[1388] - Quote
To summarize for any new reader (yikes).
Incarna expansion was a mixed bag of disasters, which combined:
- a long time was spent recoding old code and writing a new engine for the game (AKA Carbon), a "invisible" but time and developer-consuming endeavour. - as a consequence of the upgrade and Carbon implementation, very little actual content had been added to the game, with Incarna hitting a record low - Incarna was supposed to be the arrival of avatar gameplay, a long-time feature which was extremely desired. - Incarna only delivered a single CQ, the minmatarr one, which was both ugly and faulty - the CQ also was poorly optimized and had many performance issues - the CQ included zero gameplay (still doesn't haves any gameplay) - On top of the underdelivery, many old time bugs and issues hadn't been fixed as all dev effort went to coding new stuff rather than fix the older one - That by the way was a strategy implemented by the CEO of CCP, who believed that new content drawed in more customers than just fixing old one (and he was right, IMO) - As if wasn't enough, Incarna implemented a micro-transaction model which was intended to sustain avatar development. But the price tag was awfully high, with items reaching as much as 80 USD, and the whole system was implemented in a complex conversion system using a new currrency, all without previous warning - As the player's anger erupted, a sensible internal document was leaked and led many players to believe that CCP was OK in principle with adding a "pay to win" scenario on top of the "pay to play". - further, CCP was facing financial stress as it had to repay a loan by october 2011, and Incarna just made a severe hit on their subscriptions. The amount of the damage is unknown, but has been estimed in 10% of cancellations - after the disaster, CCP undertook a restructuration process and laid off about 20% of its staff (probably to please the loaners and restructurate the loan). Most of the fired people worked on non-EVE project, but also included a lot of avatar-related developers in the Reykjavik office - the first expansion after Incarna, Crucible, was a mixed bag of eveything the developers could release in a few months, including a gazilion fixes, some new features, and essentialy everything CCP could offer to save its life. It succeeded. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1046
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 08:23:00 -
[1389] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:The irony of the latest attempt to derail this thread is that the Goons have a large and remarkable presence on Second LIfe, whose highly customizable environment has allowed them to engage in all kinds of shenanigans, some of which make it into the gaming press. SL is pretty much a Goon paradise... well, at least for those Goons with a tablespoon of coding skill. Try as you might, you can't make huge pink phalluses rain from the sky on someone else's event in EVE.
It may never occur to the nay sayers that some of the people who cancelled their accounts in the wake of Incarna were people who wanted Incarna, ate up all the cool demos and devoured all the news about station interiors, and then ragequit when all they got was a buggy and unoptimized Minmatar CQ. If you overpromise and underdeliver, your customers get mad. Duh.
Maybe Mittens had a bad experience with an emoting furry on second life when playing with his barbies doing some roleplaying.
And now he is using his alts to vent his frustration about it. R.S.I2014
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1046
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 08:36:00 -
[1390] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:To summarize for any new reader (yikes).
Incarna expansion was a mixed bag of disasters, which combined:
- a long time was spent recoding old code and writing a new engine for the game (AKA Carbon), a "invisible" but time and developer-consuming endeavour. - as a consequence of the upgrade and Carbon implementation, very little actual content had been added to the game, with Incarna hitting a record low - Incarna was supposed to be the arrival of avatar gameplay, a long-time feature which was extremely desired. - Incarna only delivered a single CQ, the minmatarr one, which was both ugly and faulty - the CQ also was poorly optimized and had many performance issues - the CQ included zero gameplay (still doesn't haves any gameplay) - On top of the underdelivery, many old time bugs and issues hadn't been fixed as all dev effort went to coding new stuff rather than fix the older one - That by the way was a strategy implemented by the CEO of CCP, who believed that new content drawed in more customers than just fixing old one (and he was right, IMO) - As if wasn't enough, Incarna implemented a micro-transaction model which was intended to sustain avatar development. But the price tag was awfully high, with items reaching as much as 80 USD, and the whole system was implemented in a complex conversion system using a new currrency, all without previous warning - As the player's anger erupted, a sensible internal document was leaked and led many players to believe that CCP was OK in principle with adding a "pay to win" scenario on top of the "pay to play". - further, CCP was facing financial stress as it had to repay a loan by october 2011, and Incarna just made a severe hit on their subscriptions. The amount of the damage is unknown, but has been estimed in 10% of cancellations - after the disaster, CCP undertook a restructuration process and laid off about 20% of its staff (probably to please the loaners and restructurate the loan). Most of the fired people worked on non-EVE project, but also included a lot of avatar-related developers in the Reykjavik office - the first expansion after Incarna, Crucible, was a mixed bag of eveything the developers could release in a few months, including a gazilion fixes, some new features, and essentialy everything CCP could offer to save its life. It succeeded.
And still people think it was only WIS that caused the massive rage back then. And be content with yet another out of EvE game and complaing that WIS will draw focus away from EvE R.S.I2014
|
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20096
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 09:11:00 -
[1391] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:And still people think it was only WIS that caused the massive rage back then. And be content with yet another out of EvE game and complaing that WIS will draw focus away from EvE
Right? That's why I say: Give it a year, then pull some people back from DUST and get them to work on a proper Incarna... with all their experience with the engine they'll have by then that should be too hard, should it?
Thanks Ish for the write up. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
David Kir
Tailender
210
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 10:17:00 -
[1392] - Quote
Rhes wrote:David Kir wrote:Proposal.
Features that are yet to be implemented.
Features that have not been added. You act like they didn't already try WiS. It was called the Incarna expansion and obviously you didn't play when it was released.
The patch notes, read them. All of your words are meaningless, given that you continue to ignore the fact that "real EvE gameplay" was not ignored for two years.
Incarna was not WiS. It was a gameplay-less Minmatar CQ, a new currency and microtransactions.
CCP promised, people liked it and waited for it. Then CCP delivered a poorly made "room with a couch", as you call it, surrounded by vanity items and pay-to-win future plans. People got mad and ragequit.
This thread is about future WiS development, not Incarna feedback, which is why I'm talking about features in proposal. Further WiS development is a feature in proposal. Given that it is a feature in proposal, your "subscriptions are the only meaningful feedback" rule can not be applied.
Get your logic straight.
PS: Read the patch notes. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
251
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 12:34:00 -
[1393] - Quote
In fact most rage was about the nex store and supposed "monocle madness". It was really a surprise. CCP, beloved CCP was probably about to get into microtransaction and free to play business. That's what most of the rage was about. I was there in Jita, looking at the statue, whitch was blazed with lasers. Even had screenshot but it was lost after my laptop was fried... New CQ prototype |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 15:51:00 -
[1394] - Quote
David Kir wrote:PS: Read the patch notes.
I have a counter challenge: go through those patch notes and find something that was released un-broken or even something that was released broken but fixed before Incarna.
Go ahead....I'll wait.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 15:53:00 -
[1395] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:In fact most rage was about the nex store and supposed "monocle madness".
Guys this isn't Fox News. You can't just keep repeating the same lie and hope it magically becomes true.
The rage was because Eve got ignored for two years while Space Barbie was being worked on. The monocole was just the match that lit the fuse.
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20141
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 16:08:00 -
[1396] - Quote
Funny, repeating derogatory terms again and again is another halmark of FOX news...
Rhes wrote:The rage was because Eve got ignored for two years while Space Barbie was being worked on. The monocole was just the match that lit the fuse.
...yea, it's ok, you don't have to fear the evil "space barbies" at the moment, all's well.
My reasoning stands, though... avatar gameplay will make a comeback sooner or later, if CCP hopes to keep EVE relevant alongside other, upcoming titles like SC and Elite Dangerous. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
105
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 16:16:00 -
[1397] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Funny, repeating derogatory terms again and again is another halmark of FOX news...
Except in this case the derogatory term rings true. WiS is never going to add meaningful content to the actual game. Having poker night in a station bar or going to a dance party isn't going to change the course of New Eden. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20145
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 16:39:00 -
[1398] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Having poker night in a station bar or going to a dance party isn't going to change the course of New Eden.
That maybe, but boarding enemy ships/space stations would... and should there by one there could be the other aswell. Besides, the ability to own your own bar or shop on a station (POS or NPC) would open up a whole new venue for players to engage in a) business and b) social interaction... CCP has stated time and time again that they would like EVE to become a fully fledged scifie simulation, not "just" a spaceship game...
...and, besides: By your logic, any PvE content aside from, maybe mining, is also useless, since running the same missions again and again, or having any, not player centered story in the game doesn't do much to "change New Eden" either, right? Wrong... everything in EVE (even said poker nights and dance parties) adds something to the game as a whole. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
David Kir
Tailender
216
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:01:00 -
[1399] - Quote
Rhes wrote:David Kir wrote:PS: Read the patch notes. I have a counter challenge: go through those patch notes and find something that was released un-broken or even something that was released broken but fixed before Incarna. Go ahead....I'll wait.
Selective quoting and reading, eh?
A myriad of small fixes and changes to the Neocom, Hangars, general UI/usability, ship models, turret models/effects, new ships, learning skills removal, incursions, PI, POCOs, the ingame calendar, etc. I'd copy/paste the notes here, but you're better off reading them. As said, regular EvE gameplay was not neglected.
Most of the development effort went into Carbon (not WiS), in a massive effort aimed at rewriting a great part of the existing codebase, which is why this game's spaghetti code isn't falling apart. Yet.
WiS does not equate to "space barbies", the community feedback on future WiS development is "overwhelmingly positive", your arguments are still lacking, your logic is still flawed.
PS: keep posting, gotta keep this thread up. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
105
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:02:00 -
[1400] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:That maybe, but boarding enemy ships/space stations would... and should there by one there could be the other aswell. Besides, the ability to own your own bar or shop on a station (POS or NPC) would open up a whole new venue for players to engage in a) business and b) social interaction... CCP has stated time and time again that they would like EVE to become a fully fledged scifie simulation, not "just" a spaceship game..
Well let's see...based on DUST it doesn't look like CCP has the ability to create a viable shooter/fps game where your avatar could "board stations" and the bar and shop is just more RP nonsense. CCP can state whatever they want but when it comes down to the one thing they care about (subscription numbers) they saw what happened when they tried to cater to people like you.
Eve is spaceships and the industry that supports them. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
105
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:04:00 -
[1401] - Quote
David Kir wrote:PS: keep posting, gotta keep this thread up.
Considering that Team Avatar doesn't even exist anymore that's fine with me.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
105
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:08:00 -
[1402] - Quote
David Kir wrote:A myriad of small fixes and changes to the Neocom, Hangars, general UI/usability, ship models, turret models/effects, new ships, learning skills removal, incursions, PI, POCOs, the ingame calendar, etc.
Thanks for proving my point. Two years of nothing but cosmetic changes and all we had to show for it was a room with a couch and a monocle. |
David Kir
Tailender
216
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:15:00 -
[1403] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Well let's see...based on DUST it doesn't look like CCP has the ability to create a viable shooter/fps game where your avatar could "board stations" and the bar and shop is just more RP nonsense. CCP can state whatever they want but when it comes down to the one thing they care about (subscription numbers) they saw what happened when they tried to cater to people like you.
Eve is spaceships and the industry that supports them.
The saw what happens when you cater to WiS lovers while:
a) introducing vanity items and microtransactions (again, the main reason of the unrest)
b) delivering poorly made, gameplay-less WiS content.
DUST may be a dying project, but it is a source of avatar-related experience, which can easily be implemented into EvE.
Had they decided to develop it on PC, it would have been another story.
The PS3: a) is a difficult platform to develop games for (as Sony admitted)
b) has plenty of small-scale FPSs competition.
You see thos As and Bs? You keep ignoring them, which is stupid.
If Team Avatar "is dead", why do you keep posting here? You've got nothing to fear, obviously.
The thread hasn't been locked, you know, which is enough of a reason, to me. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20145
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:17:00 -
[1404] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Selective quoting and reading, eh?
That's what some people here are really good at... good thing most of them have no real valid arguments... well, other then that EVE doesn't need "space barbies" and "RP nonsense"...time will prove them wrong. *shrugs* "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:37:00 -
[1405] - Quote
I think it's funny that there are toons in this thread that hadn't been created yet, trying to lecture why Incarna was such a failure insisting why people un-subbed and/or shot at a statue.
If any of you think you can speak for all of us, or even just those who un-subbed because of Incarna, I suggest you start including citations. I'll start by pointing out what Hilmar said in his apology letter.
Hilmar P+¬tursson wrote: "You have spoken, loudly and clearly, with your words and with your actions."
In the threadnaught that followed Incarna (where us players spoke), there were many issues raised, from expensive pants, wasting 18months building a closet, MT, pay to win, and CCP's hubris toward us as exposed in "Fearless". This is not an exhaustive list. The general consensus however was that CCP was not listening and players were feeling estranged and taken advantage of. It was also clear that iteration on EVE (FIS) content had been all but abandoned in favor of 2 other games while most of the focus on EVE was directed at new avatar-based "game play" including microtransactions that was overly-publicized and delivered incomplete that should not have been released as-is.
Hilmar P+¬tursson wrote: "The estrangement from CCP that many of you have been feeling of late is my fault, and for that I am truly sorry. There are many contributing factors..."
CCP had to lay off 20% of their staff afterwards citing a lack of resources after losing approx 10% of subscriptions. That's how overextended they were doing other things that were not making money or advancing existing game play. I can only speak for myself even though I know many others who did the same, but I un-subbed my accounts because CCP was wasting my time trying to be like other MMOs while making compound bad decisions that affected my enjoyment of the game. The lack of iteration and neglect of unfinished and buggy features introduced previously was the last straw, un-subbing was the only way to send a message that would be heard. I am glad doing that helped result in CCPs return to sanity, and the shelving of Avatar game play until something meaningful and usable can be developed.
CCPGAMES wrote: CCP presents a future vision of EVE: where your choices always have an impact...and consequences.
I don't see how dressing-up an avatar to go out to a space bar to socialize or play some mini-game fits in with the above future. Having this ability and doing so must have an impact on the game and consequences, not just because you can do it in other games.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1048
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:41:00 -
[1406] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:David Kir wrote:Selective quoting and reading, eh? That's what some people here are best at... good thing most of them have no real valid arguments... well, other then that EVE doesn't need "space barbies" and "RP nonsense"...time will prove them wrong. *shrugs*
Time will prove them wrong ,but we will not see WIS in any form in EvE.
R.S.I2014
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20150
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:51:00 -
[1407] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Time will prove them wrong ,but we will not see WIS in any form in EvE.
I didn't say that we will, but we will see meaningful avatar gameplay in one capacity or the other... who knows? Maybe DUST (after pretty much failing on consoles) will be portet to PC, extended to boarding stations/cap ships, and somewhere down the line, even be combined with EVE and Valkyrie? ...that sounds like a pretty complete scifie simulation to me. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1048
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:54:00 -
[1408] - Quote
handbanana wrote: I don't see how dressing-up an avatar to go out to a space bar to socialize or play some mini-game fits in with the above future. Having this ability and doing so must have an impact on the game and consequences, not just because you can do it in other games.
maybe not for the few that rage quited back then and besides, there are more possibilities then mini games with WIS R.S.I2014
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1049
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 18:00:00 -
[1409] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Time will prove them wrong ,but we will not see WIS in any form in EvE. I didn't say that we will, but we will see meaningful avatar gameplay in one capacity or the other... who knows? Maybe DUST (after pretty much failing on consoles) will be portet to PC, extended to boarding stations/cap ships, and somewhere down the line, even be combined with EVE and Valkyrie? ...that sounds like a pretty complete scifie simulation to me.
Dust is a failure and on another game engine Valkerie is vapor ware and a desperate attempt to keep up with new tech. R.S.I2014
|
David Kir
Tailender
219
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 18:07:00 -
[1410] - Quote
handbanana wrote:I think it's funny that there are toons in this thread that hadn't been created yet, trying to lecture why Incarna was such a failure insisting why people un-subbed and/or shot at a statue.
Many of us have more than one character/account; I do.
As you and I both said, the Incarna unrest was not caused by WiS itself.
It was caused by:
a) the way WiS was implemented (overpromising and underdelivering isn't a good idea)
b) pay-to-win
c) unreasonably expensive vanity content
d) CCP's "hubris", as you call it.
...and many other reasons.
WiS isn't the only thing responsible for what happened. Incarna didn't fail because of WiS lovers, it failed because of CCP
Besides, no one is saying "WiS NOW": most of those who would like it to be developed agree on the fact that Incarna was very lacking, and new WiS development should be delayed until CCP is ready for it.
Believe me, none of us want more rushed WiS attempts.
Dressing up an avatar may not have an impact, yet arming a hundred of them to the teeth and taking a station from the inside could. The potential is massive. |
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20151
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 18:15:00 -
[1411] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Dust is a failure and on another game engine Valkerie is vapor ware and a desperate attempt to keep up with new tech.
I know I know, but the ideas behind ithose "games" are promising... CCP just has figure out how to make them work and incorporate them into the one game they have that already is successful... given, that's something they haven't been very good at up until now... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 18:38:00 -
[1412] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:handbanana wrote: I don't see how dressing-up an avatar to go out to a space bar to socialize or play some mini-game fits in with the above future. Having this ability and doing so must have an impact on the game and consequences, not just because you can do it in other games.
maybe not for the few that rage quited back then and besides, there are more possibilities then mini games with WIS
Of course there are more possibilities, but most of what I see in this thread revolves around players demanding more clothes, bars, and mini games, and wanting that stuff to be done now/first, because somehow "EVE will die without this", and "other games are doing it". The drama is pretty thick.
In the meantime while CCP figures this out, I am perfectly happy to wait, because I've played those other games, all of which are pretty terrible unless you lack social skills or RL interaction and want to role-play, or gamble with real money under the guise of "crafting" or "hunting". SC is not coming anytime soon, and if it does get released it will take a very long time to achieve anywhere near the kind of depth and scope EVE has now. I look forward to trying it.
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: Dust is a failure and on another game engine
And it has avatar-based game play too. I've heard it's pretty bad/broken like EVE was when it was new, but I did not know anything so dramatic had occurred such as CCP or the media announcing DUST was a failure.
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: Valkerie is vapor ware and a desperate attempt to keep up with new tech.
Playable demo = vaporware? I would think it has more potential than DUST, but that's my opinion, and not stated as a fact for dramatic flavor.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
253
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 18:42:00 -
[1413] - Quote
Valkyrie is arcade game and you can't even brake while in space. It would ruin whole experience in VR. New CQ prototype |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20152
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 19:08:00 -
[1414] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Valkyrie is arcade game and you can't even brake while in space. It would ruin whole experience in VR. It is like uridium on commodore 64.
You already played the final version? Not bad... how was the weather in the future.
Seriously, though... we actually know nothing about what will come, all we can do is speculate, and most of those speculations are pretty grim... still, we are all here. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1755
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 19:22:00 -
[1415] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Valkyrie is arcade game and you can't even brake while in space. It would ruin whole experience in VR. It is like uridium on commodore 64. You already played the final version? Not bad... how was the weather in the future. Seriously, though... we actually know nothing about what will come, all we can do is speculate, and most of those speculations are pretty grim... still, we are all here.
Concerning Valkyrie, we have some clues on where it is after the interview with CCP Unifex:
- platform(s): undecided - payment method: undecided - resources allocated: 15 developers without asignment after the release of DUST 514; Newcastle studio; CCP Unifex at startup - VR only?: see platforms - game depth?: compatible with the spirit of "put Oculus Rift on & play right away" - release date?: desired 2014, but not guaranteed - compatible with TQ?: technically unfeasible
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
253
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 19:30:00 -
[1416] - Quote
Quote:You already played the final version? Not bad... how was the weather in the future. I know what CCP Unifex said. New CQ prototype |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20156
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 19:51:00 -
[1417] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:I know what CCP Unifex said.
I know what he said, but since the game is still alteast a year away, nothing is set into stone... not even the "fact" that Valkyrie cannot be integrated into EVE. So, you cannot stop your ship because it has a strange effect on the Rift experience? Big deal, fighters/bombers in EVE don't stop either. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 19:55:00 -
[1418] - Quote
Lets keep the discussion away from personal insults of others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the feature. For or Against. ISD Gallifreyan Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCL) Interstellar Services Department |
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
253
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 19:55:00 -
[1419] - Quote
And he said the crucial thing is to make Valkyrie like arcade game should be. 1 year is enough to do that. New CQ prototype |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20156
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 19:59:00 -
[1420] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:And he said the crucial thing is to make Valkyrie like arcade game should be. 1 year is enough to do that.
True, still: http://www.roadtovr.com/2013/08/24/gamescom-2013-interview-with-jon-lander-executive-producer-of-eve-valkyrie-7622
...6:00. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
884
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 20:43:00 -
[1421] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:Rhes wrote:Sarah Targaryen wrote:Ok... This whole eva thing and actually getting to play with your avatars is a cool idea. But honestly, I would just be satisfied if there was a social aspect to it. Let me walk around inside of hubs and stations, see other peoples avatars, go to chat bars or actually have to walk to different shops or places for different things instead of just a GUI. That really wouldn't be THAT hard would it? I'm honestly completely stunned to NOT see that in this game. Let me tell you about a little game called Second Life... Let me tell you about a game that has all these things and is space related called Star Citizen. Hope goons like you will enjoy yourselves when your targets will be enjoying themselves there. tell me about why you people refuse to play second life and run your dream bar there right now?
because 2nd life is a stupid game and is not a space sim, a well rounded space sim like what we want that involves everything from spaceships pew pewing to landing on planets and space stations just like in the movies/books about space. Geez why is it so difficult to understand that Eve would be awesome if it had all these things? This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1049
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 20:46:00 -
[1422] - Quote
handbanana wrote:
Playable demo = vaporware? I would think it has more potential than DUST, but that's my opinion, and not stated as a fact for dramatic flavor.
Yes it is vaporware CCP made some awesome demos : WIS DX11 Shield armor and hull damage graphics planetary flight and maybe more
all nice demos and none are present at this moment
R.S.I2014
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1049
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 20:49:00 -
[1423] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Dust is a failure and on another game engine Valkerie is vapor ware and a desperate attempt to keep up with new tech. I know I know, but the ideas behind ithose "games" are promising... CCP "just" has to figure out how to make them work, and incorporate them into the one game they have that already is successful... given, that's something they haven't been very good at that up until now... Then CCP has to stop with out of EvE games and expand with an ingame feature
R.S.I2014
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
745
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 20:58:00 -
[1424] - Quote
What I see, mostly, are a few people who hated the idea of avatar gameplay in any form whatsoever, and who are doing their utmost to make sure that it is never implemented in any form whatsoever. I'm not sure why.
At any rate, it's not CCP's own stance. Team Avatar existed to make a prototype of avatar gameplay. They made it. It was a hit. Their mission accomplished, the members moved to other teams. The important thing is that it was a hit, and so avatars are back on the list of possible modes of gameplay in EVE. Not now, and probably not soon, but they're looking at it again.
After all, CCP has gone all-in on cutting edge avatar gameplay, in Atlanta, where they can do so without neglecting some other part of the game because nothing's shipping yet. Atlanta and Reykjavik already share technology.
It's just a question of when. But don't worry: nobody will require you to get out of your ship that someone else fitted and told you to fly. You'll always have the comforting anonymity of your pod, and the safety of knowing that your interactions with strangers are limited to pressing or not pressing F1. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 21:11:00 -
[1425] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:handbanana wrote:
Playable demo = vaporware? I would think it has more potential than DUST, but that's my opinion, and not stated as a fact for dramatic flavor.
Yes it is vaporware CCP made some awesome demos : WIS DX11 Shield armor and hull damage graphics planetary flight and maybe more all nice demos and none are present at this moment
None of those things were playable. DX11 isn't vaporware. CCP can't implement DX11 without alienating a bunch of players (something like 15%) which is becoming less of a problem over time. It's certain to be implemented, it's just a matter of when CCP feels the investment is necessary, and players ditch their old rigs or upgrade them.
Are you calling Valkyrie vaporware because you believe CCP won't complete it, or because you have some evidence you can show us? GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1049
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 21:13:00 -
[1426] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:What I see, mostly, are a few people who hated the idea of avatar gameplay in any form whatsoever, and who are doing their utmost to make sure that it is never implemented in any form whatsoever. I'm not sure why.
At any rate, it's not CCP's own stance. Team Avatar existed to make a prototype of avatar gameplay. They made it. It was a hit. Their mission accomplished, the members moved to other teams. The important thing is that it was a hit, and so avatars are back on the list of possible modes of gameplay in EVE. Not now, and probably not soon, but they're looking at it again.
After all, CCP has gone all-in on cutting edge avatar gameplay, in Atlanta, where they can do so without neglecting some other part of the game because nothing's shipping yet. Atlanta and Reykjavik already share technology.
It's just a question of when. But don't worry: nobody will require you to get out of your ship that someone else fitted and told you to fly. You'll always have the comforting anonymity of your pod, and the safety of knowing that your interactions with strangers are limited to pressing or not pressing F1. No WIS is never coming to this game ever It is not possible Well it is possible ,maybe another 2 years of recoding this old game engine to some DX11 level and then what? Another 2 years to repolish the looks of EvE?
R.S.I2014
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Flamespar
Woof Club
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 10:20:00 -
[1427] - Quote
Meanwhile star citizen announces that they will have avatar gameplay in stations AND on planets.
Yet avatars will kill EVE apparently.
Avatars (done right) will help EVE stay competitive. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1756
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 10:37:00 -
[1428] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:What I see, mostly, are a few people who hated the idea of avatar gameplay in any form whatsoever, and who are doing their utmost to make sure that it is never implemented in any form whatsoever. I'm not sure why.
At any rate, it's not CCP's own stance. Team Avatar existed to make a prototype of avatar gameplay. They made it. It was a hit. Their mission accomplished, the members moved to other teams. The important thing is that it was a hit, and so avatars are back on the list of possible modes of gameplay in EVE. Not now, and probably not soon, but they're looking at it again.
After all, CCP has gone all-in on cutting edge avatar gameplay, in Atlanta, where they can do so without neglecting some other part of the game because nothing's shipping yet. Atlanta and Reykjavik already share technology.
It's just a question of when. But don't worry: nobody will require you to get out of your ship that someone else fitted and told you to fly. You'll always have the comforting anonymity of your pod, and the safety of knowing that your interactions with strangers are limited to pressing or not pressing F1. No WIS is never coming to this game ever It is not possible Well it is possible ,maybe another 2 years of recoding this old game engine to some DX11 level and then what? Another 2 years to repolish the looks of EvE?
Well, in the coming months we'll learn the details of the Hallellujah Plan, aka CCP Seagull's development plan for the next 3 years. We know it does not contain any WiS as CCP still hasn't made up its mind on WiS, but the CSM is happy with the Plan so who knows... maybe NEW!! is coming to a EVE near us.
I'm already thinking on a final name for the Hallellujah Plan once we know more details... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Flamespar
Woof Club
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 10:39:00 -
[1429] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Well, in the coming months we'll learn the details of the Hallellujah Plan, aka CCP Seagull's development plan for the next 3 years. We know it does not contain any WiS as CCP still hasn't made up its mind on WiS, but the CSM is happy with the Plan so who knows... maybe NEW!! is coming to a EVE near us. I'm already thinking on a final name for the Hallellujah Plan once we know more details...
How do you know there is nothing avatar related? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
SKINE DMZ
The Scope Gallente Federation
145
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 10:42:00 -
[1430] - Quote
Just to balance it out a little, I would love to be invited in someones quarters to have a little conversation about that corporation that lives near, maybe pay him a little money for him to take some action there. I disagree |
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20188
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 10:44:00 -
[1431] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:How do you know there is nothing avatar related?
Nobody knows, really... what we can guss is, because we have been told, that there will be more customization for POSes and other forms of player generated content... that may very well include avatar centered game play like boarding actions or even social hubs (like the staging hall in DUST). "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1770
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 11:27:00 -
[1432] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Well, in the coming months we'll learn the details of the Hallellujah Plan, aka CCP Seagull's development plan for the next 3 years. We know it does not contain any WiS as CCP still hasn't made up its mind on WiS, but the CSM is happy with the Plan so who knows... maybe NEW!! is coming to a EVE near us. I'm already thinking on a final name for the Hallellujah Plan once we know more details... How do you know there is nothing avatar related?
Well, as late as GamesCon 2013, CCP still hadn't made their mind about WiS and still were thinking (?) about it.
Lets be clear, having a LARPer as CCP Seagull develop a plan for EVE's next 3 years, and that such plan didn't contained anything supporting RP in the form of avatar content, would be weird, but CCP IS a weird company and EVE is even a weirder game.
Personally I would buy -quite literally- avatar customization options and even limited social interaction (aka a glorified 3D Chat) in our existing CQs. Just put to use what we already have got, FFS!
True gameplay content would be another (and larger) beast. So, who knows? I am skeptical and pesimistic because that's both my nature and a sensible way to deal with CCPs delivery vs expectations. I expected they would deliver, foguht so they would take an approach compatible with having both WiS and FiS, and lost that battle and my hopes.
So i'm taking it grimly and easily. Better be pleasantly surprised than be right in my bad predictions. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20189
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 11:37:00 -
[1433] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So i'm taking it grimly and easily. Better be pleasantly surprised than be right in my bad predictions.
While I don't share auntie Ish's grim view of things... yet... I agree about the: Do SOMETHING, part.
We already got CQs, fine, then why not open them up and add 4 (1 per race) generic social spaces to act as an in station chat? Nobody would be forced to use it, since there is already the regular chat, but it would be an option CCP could expand upon, no? Or let us invite others into our CQs? Then slowly start adding customzation items for the various spaces... and so on, and so forth.
Why has it to be, either all at once or nothing? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 13:19:00 -
[1434] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So i'm taking it grimly and easily. Better be pleasantly surprised than be right in my bad predictions. While I don't share auntie Ish's grim view of things... yet... I agree about the: Do SOMETHING, part. We already got CQs, fine, then why not open them up and add 4 (1 per race) generic social spaces to act as an in station chat? Nobody would be forced to use it, since there is already the regular chat, but it would be an option CCP could expand upon, no? Or let us invite others into our CQs? Then slowly start adding customzation items for the various spaces... and so on, and so forth. Why has it to be, either all at once or nothing?
We have both a working text and voice chat already. Why do we need yet another one? I suppose my Avatar is supposed to appear to be speaking when I am "chatting"?
How would any of what you propose have an impact on the game or provide any consequences for player actions? Why should CCP divert any more of their limited resources to pure vanity items/features that do not contain or provide any playable content? I hear stagnation and SC as proposed reasons, but those are pretty weak fear-mongering arguments when EVE's subscriber numbers have been increasing since they changed focus, CCP is getting positive press coverage again, and SC is still years away if it ever gets released.
How much would you anticipate your ideas would cost to implement, and how many new subs do you anticipate CCP would acquire if we could only chat and congregate in another room outside of our CQ?
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
326
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 14:15:00 -
[1435] - Quote
handbanana wrote:We have both a working text and voice chat already. Why do we need yet another one? I suppose my Avatar is supposed to appear to be speaking when I am "chatting"? We had a working basic task bar animation for star gate jumps. Why did we need an ~immerse~ one? I suppose my ship is supposed to appear in third person views, first person views, then third person views without my input.
We had a working exploration career program within the game. Why did we need to have a dumb down version? I suppose CCP feels their up-coming new influx of players are too stupid to figure out the old version.
Can use these excuses for anything already in the game or potentially added to the game at a later date. |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 14:32:00 -
[1436] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:handbanana wrote:We have both a working text and voice chat already. Why do we need yet another one? I suppose my Avatar is supposed to appear to be speaking when I am "chatting"? We had a working basic task bar animation for star gate jumps. Why did we need an ~immerse~ one? I suppose my ship is supposed to appear in third person views, first person views, then third person views without my input. We had a working exploration career program within the game. Why did we need to have a dumb down version? I suppose CCP feels their up-coming new influx of players are too stupid to figure out the old version. Can use these excuses for anything already in the game or potentially added to the game at a later date.
What excuses? The new jump animation replaced the old one, it is not a new option available in addition to the old one. The question was: Why do we need a additional way to "chat" when we already have 2? The answer you gave is basically: "because CCP does stuff". Also, CCP gave their reasons for replacing the task bar with an animation, something to do with "death to loading bars". Lame, but they gave a reason.
How does dumbing-down an existing career path equate to the issue at hand, or my post you quoted?
Ignoratio elenchi. GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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Taiwanistan
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 15:12:00 -
[1437] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So i'm taking it grimly and easily. Better be pleasantly surprised than be right in my bad predictions. While I don't share auntie Ish's grim view of things... yet... I agree about the: Do SOMETHING, part. We already got CQs, fine, then why not open them up and add 4 (1 per race) generic social spaces to act as an in station chat? Nobody would be forced to use it, since there is already the regular chat, but it would be an option CCP could expand upon, no? Or let us invite others into our CQs? Then slowly start adding customzation items for the various spaces... and so on, and so forth. Why has it to be, either all at once or nothing? because we don't need that useless bunch of dudes emoting each other in a room crap, a waste of dev resources, we demand meaningful gameplay TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20198
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 15:20:00 -
[1438] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:because we don't need that useless bunch of dudes emoting each other in a room crap, a waste of dev resources, we demand meaningful gameplay
Who is "we"? I'm not you... and I've been playing this game for over 8 years... Who decides what is "meaningful"? EVE is a (shocking revelation) MMORPG, not a MMO space ships only simulator... Useless dudes? Crap? You demand? Ah... ok, I see... never mind then. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 15:37:00 -
[1439] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Who decides what is "meaningful"?
The people paying for subscriptions. Here is how you can tell if the majority of players want Space Barbies: cancel your subs and if there are enough of you CCP will take action like they did after the mass cancellations when Incarna was released. |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
326
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 15:45:00 -
[1440] - Quote
handbanana wrote:What case can you make to divert resources to build another chat? To offer another angle of gaming that is a part of, but not completely tied into, the space ship only aspect. CCP is attempting to make progress with Dust and Valkyrie as a different angle to the universe. So with avatar gaming, there are possibilities to be explored.
In an avatar form, you would not appear in local to those residing within a ship. And vice verse, those within a ship would not appear to those in avatar form.
A whole new range of skills ranging from assassination to hand-to-hand combat to personal defense to politics to sabotage, along with a whole new market of equipment and gear, could be a possibility.
Carelessly left your clone unguarded during a period of war? Destroyed.
Rose in power with an empire faction that they bring you into the fold and you control a few of their solar systems? Politics.
You lead a legion of Dust mercenaries while offering "off-grid" bonuses? Leadership.
Just some ideas off the top of my head.
Again, did the star gate animation replace the task bar, or just mask it? From reading this thread, and a few others that ended a while back, it would seem the animation is on our computer and not ran from CCP's server farm per jump. So short of personally manipulating a file, changing this animation, much less having it not run if I wanted, should be an option. But CCP wants to be stubborn and claim whatever they want to claim as a reason. The same line of thinking for dumbing-down exploration - they can claim whatever reason they want. CCP avoiding any coding involving player owned stations? They can claim whatever reason they want. Any ideas, issues, problems, or wild thoughts about anything related to the game as a whole seem to have whatever reason they want to use at the moment to avoid it.
For a company that used to be daring and breaking new grounds into unknown forays, they have become very passive and only will go the safe route. With Sony as a partner, I would not be surprised CCP's new slogan becomes, "You're in our universe now."
A bit off-topic and hopefully not too rant raving. |
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20203
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 15:46:00 -
[1441] - Quote
Rhes wrote:The people paying for subscriptions. Here is how you can tell if the majority of players want Space Barbies: cancel your subs and if there are enough of you CCP will take action like they did after the mass cancellations when Incarna was released.
...and there he goes again with his "space barbies almost killed EVE" argument... FOX news my a**.
You know what? Forget it, I'm done here... I tried to have a civil discussion, but all the arguments I get are machismo bu** sh*t... pardon my french... you don't see any meaning in avatar game play? Fine, I get it... still begs the question why you even bothered customizing your own avatar, but whatever... SC will hit next year and we will see how meaningful it can be... and how quickly CCP will make an 180 to compete with it. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
SKINE DMZ
The Scope Gallente Federation
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 15:51:00 -
[1442] - Quote
There are many ways it could go, it opens up a whole new world and I think CCP does not want just a spaceship game, but rather a immersive space simulator, with your opinions they might as well delete avatars completely as it does not add any "meaningful" gameplay.
I am completely for WIS, it would add some interesting ways of communicating and options for the future I disagree |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 15:58:00 -
[1443] - Quote
I'm not reading this whole thread, but the stuff in the OP looks cool and I hope to see it or something like it in the game someday.
welp, cya. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1784
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:13:00 -
[1444] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So i'm taking it grimly and easily. Better be pleasantly surprised than be right in my bad predictions. While I don't share auntie Ish's grim view of things... yet... I agree about the: Do SOMETHING, part. We already got CQs, fine, then why not open them up and add 4 (1 per race) generic social spaces to act as an in station chat? Nobody would be forced to use it, since there is already the regular chat, but it would be an option CCP could expand upon, no? Or let us invite others into our CQs? Then slowly start adding customzation items for the various spaces... and so on, and so forth. Why has it to be, either all at once or nothing? We have both a working text and voice chat already. Why do we need yet another one? I suppose my Avatar is supposed to appear to be speaking when I am "chatting"? How would any of what you propose have an impact on the game or provide any consequences for player actions? Why should CCP divert any more of their limited resources to pure vanity items/features that do not contain or provide any playable content? I hear stagnation and SC as proposed reasons, but those are pretty weak fear-mongering arguments when EVE's subscriber numbers have been increasing since they changed focus, CCP is getting positive press coverage again, and SC is still years away if it ever gets released. How much would you anticipate your ideas would cost to implement, and how many new subs do you anticipate CCP would acquire if we could only chat and congregate in another room outside of our CQ?
Do you know why companies bother selling vanity items? Because their bang per buck is freaking high, specially in a monopolistic environment where the only customer choice is buy/not buy.
Vanity items can be developed by a diminutive team -an artist, a coder, a QA member and a team head. 4 guys, 2 of them working partial time, are enough.
Now let's make some numbers, please. Say that only 1 in 100 subscriptions could be bothered to spend money in a vanity item. Those are 5,000 sells of anything "Team Trinkets and Mirrors" comes up. In a typical micro-transaciton fashion, that's 15 to 25,000 USD worth out of literally 12 days/man, in a company which may have a potential pool of about 130,000 days/man per year.
And be noted, I am UNDER-estimating potential customers (1%? More like 10% even in EVE), and OVER-estimating the average dev time consumed by vanity items (remapping a item is quite simpler than make it from scratch).
Vanity items are the holy grail of ancillary sells. They don't break anything, make the players happy and provide lots of money. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Taiwanistan
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:15:00 -
[1445] - Quote
yeah if players weren't so scrubby and complain about the aurem all the time, why do they do that? why don't they just pay up? TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1784
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:17:00 -
[1446] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Rhes wrote:The people paying for subscriptions. Here is how you can tell if the majority of players want Space Barbies: cancel your subs and if there are enough of you CCP will take action like they did after the mass cancellations when Incarna was released. ...and there he goes again with his "space barbies almost killed EVE" argument... FOX news my a**. You know what? Forget it, I'm done here... I tried to have a civil discussion, but all the arguments I get are machismo bu** sh*t... pardon my french... you don't see any meaning in avatar game play? Fine, I get it... still begs the question why you even bothered customizing your own avatar, but whatever... SC will hit next year and we will see how meaningful it can be... and how quickly CCP will make an 180 to compete with it.
Don't let the goon trolls get on you. Mittens was clearly in favor of Incarna peviously to Incarna, and probably he would jump back aboard if CCP took the "meaningful content" road. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:21:00 -
[1447] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:handbanana wrote:What case can you make to divert resources to build another chat? To offer another angle of gaming that is a part of, but not completely tied into, the space ship only aspect. CCP is attempting to make progress with Dust and Valkyrie as a different angle to the universe. So with avatar gaming, there are possibilities to be explored. In an avatar form, you would not appear in local to those residing within a ship. And vice verse, those within a ship would not appear to those in avatar form. A whole new range of skills ranging from assassination to hand-to-hand combat to personal defense to politics to sabotage, along with a whole new market of equipment and gear, could be a possibility. Carelessly left your clone unguarded during a period of war? Destroyed. Rose in power with an empire faction that they bring you into the fold and you control a few of their solar systems? Politics. You lead a legion of Dust mercenaries while offering "off-grid" bonuses? Leadership. Just some ideas off the top of my head.
All good ideas, but simply adding a room to congregate in and a new chat (topic at hand) does not achieve any of your ideas in itself. A few players here insist that CCP "just do it" and release and support more content that doesn't add anything usable to the game other than a place to be seen, and that's going to be a tough sell when company resources are thin, and CCP has a bad record of meeting customer expectations.
RE warp animation: You are preaching to the choir. My guess is because people cheered at fanfest when shown the original demo, CCP hastily coded it in to pad-out their next expansion. Interesting that the thread to turn it off got bigger than this one in 1/4 the time with more unique posters.
Shalua Rui wrote: still begs the question why you even bothered customizing your own avatar, but whatever... SC will hit next year and we will see how meaningful it can be... and how quickly CCP will make an 180 to compete with it.
1) Players are forced to create an avatar to play the game. It was fun to do for about 2 minutes.
2) Betting on, and boasting now that SC will have any affect on EVE, when it will be at least 2-3 years before a beta is available is overly optimistic. Unlike the last EVE-killer: Jumpgate Evolution, at least SC is somewhat funded. More competition in this niche gaming space can only be a good thing.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:32:00 -
[1448] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Vanity items are the holy grail of ancillary sells. They don't break anything, make the players happy and provide lots of money.
Except when they don't provide lots of money. Case in point: Incarna
The question was: How does this (and/or meeting room) attract NEW subscribers? Your proposal fleeces existing players, and that's not going to go over too well, unless we're talking ship paint jobs and putting corp logos on things neither of which involve avatars.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1784
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:40:00 -
[1449] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Vanity items are the holy grail of ancillary sells. They don't break anything, make the players happy and provide lots of money.
Except when they don't provide lots of money. Case in point: Incarna The question was: How does this (and/or meeting room) attract NEW subscribers? Your proposal fleeces existing players, and that's not going to go over too well, unless we're talking ship paint jobs and putting corp logos on things neither of which involve avatars.
If you do it wrong, not even gunpowder will catch fire.
That doesn't changes that vanity items are ka-boom to game revenue. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
203
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:40:00 -
[1450] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Except when they don't provide lots of money. Case in point: Incarna
Except I believe there were hundreds of monocles sold in the first month alone (which, in RL money was worth about 80 dollars apiece), and someone has to buy clothes from NeX or I wouldn't be able to buy them off the market. So yeah, yes it does make money. Not sure if lots, but not nothing at all either. |
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handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
51
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:51:00 -
[1451] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Vanity items are the holy grail of ancillary sells. They don't break anything, make the players happy and provide lots of money.
Except when they don't provide lots of money. Case in point: Incarna The question was: How does this (and/or meeting room) attract NEW subscribers? Your proposal fleeces existing players, and that's not going to go over too well, unless we're talking ship paint jobs and putting corp logos on things neither of which involve avatars. If you do it wrong, not even gunpowder will catch fire. That doesn't changes that vanity items are ka-boom to game revenue.
Are they always, or just sometimes when done correctly and not wrong as you asserted?
Can you not answer the original question? I'll ask it one more time and further clarify it using smaller words and emphasis:
How does adding just a few vanity items and a meeting room now (or soonGäó) attract NEW subscribers?
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
52
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:56:00 -
[1452] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:handbanana wrote:Except when they don't provide lots of money. Case in point: Incarna Except I believe there were hundreds of monocles sold in the first month alone (which, in RL money was worth about 80 dollars apiece), and someone has to buy clothes from NeX or I wouldn't be able to buy them off the market. So yeah, yes it does make money. Not sure if lots, but not nothing at all either.
When you balance the cost to build the cash shop, the products, and the avatars to wear the goods vs. the revenue generated to date, I would guess CCP did not recoup 1% of its expenditures. Otherwise, we'd probably be seeing regular additions and iteration to the shop and WIS if either was so lucrative and contributed anything statistically relevant to CCPs bottom line. GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
253
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 17:17:00 -
[1453] - Quote
Look, we have nice, working tech demo of Incarna, and great character creator. How much would that cost? Not much. they didn't made most part of the planned work, this are not multiplayer interiors, there is no gamplay. There is no much work put into it, it looks great, but it wasn't so expensive as it looks. Most part wasn't even done of what they were planning. That's clear when you watch 2011 fanfest presentations on youtube.
They have stopped developing and making WIS because the hardest part was before them and after all the rage they were more careful and sticked with FIS. New CQ prototype |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
203
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 17:30:00 -
[1454] - Quote
handbanana wrote:When you balance the cost to build the cash shop, the products, and the avatars to wear the goods vs. the revenue generated to date, I would guess CCP did not recoup 1% of its expenditures. Otherwise, we'd probably be seeing regular additions and iteration to the shop and WIS if either was so lucrative and contributed anything statistically relevant to CCPs bottom line.
There is nothing coming because WiS team doesn't exist anymore. They are terrified of players throwing a hissyfit again - it took them very careful consideration just to add a couple of clothing items to the FW LP stores, and even then people back then were flipping their **** - not realizing that stuff was already made a year ago and therefore did not take any dev time other than to add it to the store.
The biggest problem with NeX's profitability is that most clothes are utterly bland, dulled colors and generally very boring to look at. Nevertheless some people are buying stuff from there, otherwise there would be no stock in the apparel market.
And if you think avatar vanity items don't sell, you're dead wrong. Sleeve tattoos? Worth billions of ISK. Nefantar Thrasher? A few hundred million at best. Genolution implants? Half a billion, or a bit more. That tells you something how players value their avatar stuff even though they can't even parade them around anywhere but in character portraits. Well, those prices are in my corner of the galaxy at least, and checking the Jita market the tats are still valued way over the other stuff.
I'm guessing the virtual swag offer CCP has up now (that includes the CE pre-order bonuses) is selling mainly because people want sleeve tattoos. They're never going to fly the thrasher anyway and the Genolution implants are for the moment too costly to use in anything but the most carebearest of characters.
Basically, many people are very, very fond of their avatars and many seem to be quite happily playing "space barbie", even if they have to play it alone for the time being. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20224
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 17:53:00 -
[1455] - Quote
handbanana wrote:When you balance the cost to build the cash shop, the products, and the avatars to wear the goods vs. the revenue generated to date, I would guess CCP did not recoup 1% of its expenditures. Otherwise, we'd probably be seeing regular additions and iteration to the shop and WIS if either was so lucrative and contributed anything statistically relevant to CCPs bottom line.
Think again... the only reason why CCP changed their approach was the media backlash following the introduction of microtransactions, and the potential damage to the game it ensued.... I know, many people like to think otherwise, but that's exactly what happened... everything else: The unsub wave and quick response/apology from CCP was rooted in said, bad press (example).
...and "handbanana"? I'm neither "betting" not "boasting", I'm predicting... I know a thing or two about the gaming industry and I also have been a gamer for almost 20 years, I know an promising project when I see one... and Chris Roberts has revolutionized the genre (the whole market, for that matter) once already (Wind Commander series ring a bell?). It is not *somewhat funded", it smashed the original Kickstarter goal of 500.000, and is now at almost 19 mil... you know how much money CCP had when they started development of EVE? 2.6 mil!
Also, you ever actually played JG? I played the original and it was a generic space shooter, it didn't do anything new or better then EVE or any other space combat game, same as JGE... that's why it failed. Only because something is heralded as an "EVE killer", doesn't mean it is one.
Finally: The shared social space I mentioned was an example for a starting point, from where more content/mechanics could be implemented. Only if there comes more (customizable personal space etc.) the NeX store will ever really make sense... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
253
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 17:55:00 -
[1456] - Quote
http://youtu.be/b9kSMkp3juM?t=10m49s to support what I wrote. Progress made from last december (2010) to 2011 fanfest, look at it. It's the CQ development video. New CQ prototype |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 18:24:00 -
[1457] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Wind Commander series ring a bell?
I play that every time I eat Mexican food.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 18:25:00 -
[1458] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:There is nothing coming because WiS team doesn't exist anymore. They are terrified of players throwing a hissyfit again
You're welcome.
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1784
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 19:59:00 -
[1459] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Vanity items are the holy grail of ancillary sells. They don't break anything, make the players happy and provide lots of money.
Except when they don't provide lots of money. Case in point: Incarna The question was: How does this (and/or meeting room) attract NEW subscribers? Your proposal fleeces existing players, and that's not going to go over too well, unless we're talking ship paint jobs and putting corp logos on things neither of which involve avatars. If you do it wrong, not even gunpowder will catch fire. That doesn't changes that vanity items are ka-boom to game revenue. Are they always, or just sometimes when done correctly and not wrong as you asserted? Can you not answer the original question? I'll ask it one more time and further clarify it using smaller words and emphasis: How does adding just a few vanity items and a meeting room now (or soonGäó) attract NEW subscribers?
Neither me nor Shalua Rui stated such. Why should I answer you questioning something I didn't asseverate?
So far I've stated that vanity items are a good source of revenue with a low cost of development. But in order to work, they need to be shown up to other players, and here is where social spaces come in. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
52
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 21:00:00 -
[1460] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Vanity items are the holy grail of ancillary sells. They don't break anything, make the players happy and provide lots of money.
Except when they don't provide lots of money. Case in point: Incarna The question was: How does this (and/or meeting room) attract NEW subscribers? Your proposal fleeces existing players, and that's not going to go over too well, unless we're talking ship paint jobs and putting corp logos on things neither of which involve avatars. If you do it wrong, not even gunpowder will catch fire. That doesn't changes that vanity items are ka-boom to game revenue. Are they always, or just sometimes when done correctly and not wrong as you asserted? Can you not answer the original question? I'll ask it one more time and further clarify it using smaller words and emphasis: How does adding just a few vanity items and a meeting room now (or soonGäó) attract NEW subscribers? Neither me nor Shalua Rui stated such. Why should I answer you questioning something I didn't asseverate? So far I've stated that vanity items are a good source of revenue with a low cost of development. But in order to work, they need to be shown up to other players, and here is where social spaces come in.
You've stated that vanity items are a good source of revenue, but you provide no corroboration in re: EVE.
You both (and others) continue to insist that CCP release something if it's only vanity items or a meeting room where you can congregate and be seen while forecasting the demise of EVE unless CCP complies. Since CCP is very unlikely to revisit any of this until it has figured out how to make avatar-based gameplay generate new subs and new revenue, I asked the question I did.
How does adding just a few vanity items and a meeting room now (or soonGäó) attract NEW subscribers?
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20241
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 22:00:00 -
[1461] - Quote
Ok, so you want an example for how a simple room could generate income and maybe even draw new players? Fine... the hangar module for Star Citizen (more or less one simple hall with a ship in it) has been downloaded by approx 234.000 people right now... to get access to it, each of them had to donate at least 5$, not counting the money they actually payed for the module itself... remember: That hangar is nothing more then one room with a ship... no gameplay, hardly any interaction, and it will stay like that for the next 6 months.
...so, and now tell me it would not work for EVE. All CCP would have to do is add a social space similar to that hangar and/or open up the existing CQs for other players, then proceed to add vanity items like room decorations (model ships, pictures, or even a bar), new clothing and accessories (expanding the current NeX shop), and go from there ...believe me, it would work and it would bring new players. Why? Cause the industry shows that stuff like that works right now... given, it has to be done right, not like the last time - with a vision for future things to come behind it - but it would work.
Right now, all EVE is to most gamers is: "Spreadsheets in Space"... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 00:48:00 -
[1462] - Quote
Sadly it looks like Star Citizen is just going to be completely microtransaction driven. After monocles and designer space pants I'm not sure that's the best argument to make in favor of CCP wasting more time on WiS. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 06:17:00 -
[1463] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ok, so you want an example for how a simple room could generate income and maybe even draw new players? Fine... the hangar module for Star Citizen (more or less one simple hall with a ship in it) has been downloaded by approx 234.000 people right now... to get access to it, each of them had to donate at least 5$, not counting the money they actually payed for the module itself... remember: That hangar is nothing more then one room with a ship... no gameplay, hardly any interaction, and it will stay like that for the next 6 months.
...so, and now tell me it would not work for EVE. All CCP would have to do is add a social space similar to that hangar and/or open up the existing CQs for other players, then proceed to add vanity items like room decorations (model ships, pictures, or even a bar), new clothing and accessories (expanding the current NeX shop), and go from there ...believe me, it would work and it would bring new players. Why? Cause the industry shows that stuff like that works right now... given, it has to be done right, not like the last time - with a vision for future things to come behind it - but it would work.
Right now, all EVE is to most gamers is: "Spreadsheets in Space"...
Yeah the amount of money gamers are spending on that unreleased game in ridiculous.
Especially since the first product they released is essentially a closet where only you can enjoy your purchase (sound familiar?)
I think the difference between EVE and Star Citizen is that they are committed to meaningful avatar game play and have a plan that they have publicity announced and are visibly starting to deliver on.
They also managed expectations better. They were honest about the first module being a buggy single player micro transaction display box, as opposed to CCP claiming that station were opening up with stuff to do.
All we have now is a prototype CCP refuses to talk about and some waffle about "dream with me". I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20265
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 06:19:00 -
[1464] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Sadly it looks like Star Citizen is just going to be completely microtransaction driven. After monocles and designer space pants I'm not sure that's the best argument to make in favor of CCP wasting more time on WiS.
Oh, but it is... in a way... out of two reason: 1) The NeX shop is already there, so the outcry will not be the same as it was 2 years ago... especially if the new stuff is "better" then what we already got now. 2) The market is, as I already stated, a bit different today... the last couple of years have seen a rise in micro transaction based games, and people are much more willing to use services like that... if the conent it offers is interesting and fairly priced, of course. That's two things CCP would have to work on, because that has been done quite poorly, when NeX was first introduced.... also, it would have to be marketed right.
...that's quite few "buts".
@ Flamespar: Exactly my point: A firm vision and clever marketing... two essential factors to make stuff like that work. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 06:28:00 -
[1465] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Rhes wrote:Sadly it looks like Star Citizen is just going to be completely microtransaction driven. After monocles and designer space pants I'm not sure that's the best argument to make in favor of CCP wasting more time on WiS. Oh, but it is... in a way... out of two reason: 1) The NeX shop is already there, so the outcry will not be the same as it was 2 years ago... especially if the new stuff is "better" then what we already got now. 2) The market is, as I already stated, a bit different today... the last couple of years have seen a rise in micro transaction based games, and people are much more willing to use services like that... if the conent it offers is interesting and fairly priced, of course. That's two things CCP would have to work on, because that has been done quite poorly, when NeX was first introduced.... also, it would have to be marketed right. ...that's quite few "buts". @ Flamespar: Exactly my point: A firm vision and clever marketing... two essential factors to make stuff like that work.
What's really funny about the NeX store. Is that despite all the rage about the cost of the monocle, CCP confirmed during a CSM meeting that it was the most popular product. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20265
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 06:38:00 -
[1466] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:What's really funny about the NeX store. Is that despite all the rage about the cost of the monocle, CCP confirmed during a CSM meeting that it was the most popular product.
I know, right? As is said: This stuff WORKS! It just has to be done right... imagine if there would have been more stuff (vanity items to outfit your CQ with etc.) and it all would have been more reasonably priced. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1789
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 07:00:00 -
[1467] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Flamespar wrote:What's really funny about the NeX store. Is that despite all the rage about the cost of the monocle, CCP confirmed during a CSM meeting that it was the most popular product. I know, right? As is said: This stuff WORKS! It just has to be done right... imagine if there would have been more stuff (vanity items to outfit your CQ with etc.) and it all would have been more reasonably priced.
...and I could just show off to you my 5 pairs of shoes...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Maximilian Akora
It's just business.
15
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:23:00 -
[1468] - Quote
They should stop listening to whoever is giving them "advice" on the whole NEX store an WiS stuff. Because that person got it wrong when it was introduced and he's still getting it wrong now.
Let me put it in caps just so CCP folks might actually read it.
WE REVOLTED BECAUSE EVE ITSELF BACK THEN WAS IN A SORRY STATE AND YOUR TIME COULD/SHOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER SPENT ON GETTING THE GAMEPLAY UP TO A RESPECTABLE LEVEL. ALSO, SOME OF THE OPTIONS FELT LIKE OBVIOUS MONEY GRABS.
ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT THERE'LL BE A PART OF YOUR CUSTOMER BASE WHO ACTUALLY WANT YOU TO WORK ON WiS WHILE THE OTHER PART WILL BE HAPPY WITH EVE ITSELF AND WON'T MIND!
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:28:00 -
[1469] - Quote
You do realize that people read capitalized words slower than lower case right? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16390
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:31:00 -
[1470] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:You do realize that people read capitalized words slower than lower case right? Gives them more time to sink inGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
|
Maximilian Akora
It's just business.
15
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:32:00 -
[1471] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:You do realize that people read capitalized words slower than lower case right?
Are you saying that CCP DEVS are normal people? Have you SEEN them?
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20297
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:36:00 -
[1472] - Quote
Maximilian Akora wrote:Are you saying that CCP DEVS are normal people? Have you SEEN them?
To be fair... they look much more human these days then they did years ago... just saying. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
206
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 11:32:00 -
[1473] - Quote
Maximilian Akora wrote:...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ...
This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either. |
Maximilian Akora
It's just business.
15
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 13:09:00 -
[1474] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Maximilian Akora wrote:...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ... This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either.
There's a big difference between "holy **** this sucks" and "some people will never be satisfied". Right now it's the former, once CCP got it to "yup, that'll do nicely" status they can start working on WiS.
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20309
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 13:19:00 -
[1475] - Quote
Maximilian Akora wrote:There's a big difference between "holy **** this sucks" and "some people will never be satisfied". Right now it's the former, once CCP got it to "yup, that'll do nicely" status they can start working on WiS.
Not untrue, but I guess it's like it is with everything in live: If you wait for exactly the right time, you will never do it, cause the right time will never come... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 15:12:00 -
[1476] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Maximilian Akora wrote:...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ... This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either.
So you have no idea what you're talking about but that's not going to stop you from advocating that CCP ignore broken game mechanics to add more emotes and space pants. Thanks for the useless input I guess. |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
52
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 16:31:00 -
[1477] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ok, so you want an example for how a simple room could generate income and maybe even draw new players? Fine... the hangar module for Star Citizen (more or less one simple hall with a ship in it) has been downloaded by approx 234.000 people right now... to get access to it, each of them had to donate at least 5$, not counting the money they actually payed for the module itself... remember: That hangar is nothing more then one room with a ship... no gameplay, hardly any interaction, and it will stay like that for the next 6 months.
...so, and now tell me it would not work for EVE. All CCP would have to do is add a social space similar to that hangar and/or open up the existing CQs for other players, then proceed to add vanity items like room decorations (model ships, pictures, or even a bar), new clothing and accessories (expanding the current NeX shop), and go from there ...believe me, it would work and it would bring new players. Why? Cause the industry shows that stuff like that works right now... given, it has to be done right, not like the last time - with a vision for future things to come behind it - but it would work.
Right now, all EVE is to most gamers is: "Spreadsheets in Space"...
So, you want CCP to copy SC's model and accept donations for early access to incomplete features? Maybe if all the people who are pining for WIS did that, CCP could gauge what the actual demand is from their existing players and decide if its even worth it because they'd have real numbers to gamble with.
But, I have to believe you that it will work too? I lack that much faith in CCP's ability to deliver things that work on time that also meet player expectations. I think you mean it "could work" and not: "would work", because you have no idea unless you can predict the future.
Given what went down last time, I'm convinced if CCP does not release a version of "WIS" that contains something to do that aligns with EVE's cold and dark universe philosophy other than just being seen wearing or arranging vanity items, it's not going to bring in any new players, and that's where CCP is going to be focused once iterations and re-balancing are good enough to do so.
Do you happen to own a "hope and change" bumper sticker or poster?
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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Gaia Ma'chello
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
65
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 16:43:00 -
[1478] - Quote
Maximilian Akora wrote:Teinyhr wrote:Maximilian Akora wrote:...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ... This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either. There's a big difference between "holy **** this sucks" and "some people will never be satisfied". Right now it's the former, once CCP got it to "yup, that'll do nicely" status they can start working on WiS. The current status of WiS is also "holy **** this sucks", so it should see the same level of development effort. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:51:00 -
[1479] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Maximilian Akora wrote:...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ... This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either.
You asking to much here ,first CCP has to make something out of game AGAIN ,before working on something EvE related R.S.I2014
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:53:00 -
[1480] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Teinyhr wrote:Maximilian Akora wrote:...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ... This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either. So you have no idea what you're talking about but that's not going to stop you from advocating that CCP ignore broken game mechanics to add more emotes and space pants. Thanks for the useless input I guess.
You forgot about the furries and the roleplayers ,maybe it wil help us to take you serious R.S.I2014
|
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:58:00 -
[1481] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Ok, so you want an example for how a simple room could generate income and maybe even draw new players? Fine... the hangar module for Star Citizen (more or less one simple hall with a ship in it) has been downloaded by approx 234.000 people right now... to get access to it, each of them had to donate at least 5$, not counting the money they actually payed for the module itself... remember: That hangar is nothing more then one room with a ship... no gameplay, hardly any interaction, and it will stay like that for the next 6 months.
...so, and now tell me it would not work for EVE. All CCP would have to do is add a social space similar to that hangar and/or open up the existing CQs for other players, then proceed to add vanity items like room decorations (model ships, pictures, or even a bar), new clothing and accessories (expanding the current NeX shop), and go from there ...believe me, it would work and it would bring new players. Why? Cause the industry shows that stuff like that works right now... given, it has to be done right, not like the last time - with a vision for future things to come behind it - but it would work.
Right now, all EVE is to most gamers is: "Spreadsheets in Space"... So, you want CCP to copy SC's model and accept donations for early access to incomplete features? Maybe if all the people who are pining for WIS did that, CCP could gauge what the actual demand is from their existing players and decide if its even worth it because they'd have real numbers to forecast with instead of feelings and trying to copy what other companies do. But, I have to believe you that it will work too? I lack that much faith in CCP's ability to deliver things that work on time that also meet player expectations. I think you mean it "could work" and not: "would work", because you have no idea unless you can predict the future. Given what went down last time, I'm convinced if CCP does release an updated version of "WIS" that does not contain something to do that aligns with EVE's cold and dark universe philosophy other than just being seen wearing or arranging vanity items, it's not going to bring in any new players. New subscribers is where CCP is going to be re-focused once iterations and re-balancing are good enough to do so. I look forward to seeing CCP's 3 year plan for EVE. If it happens to not contain any, or very limited avatar content, so be it, it's not going to be the doom and gloom scenario for EVE some people keep pushing. Do you happen to own a "hope and change" bumper sticker or poster?
So ,there is a 3 year plan . So in 3 years CCP can handle their own software? R.S.I2014
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
207
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:58:00 -
[1482] - Quote
Rhes wrote:So you have no idea what you're talking about but that's not going to stop you from advocating that CCP ignore broken game mechanics to add more emotes and space pants. Thanks for the useless input I guess.
You're welcome. Also what Gaia Ma'chello said. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 20:23:00 -
[1483] - Quote
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:The current status of WiS is also "holy **** this sucks", so it should see the same level of development effort.
Not really since WiS has nothing to do with real Eve gameplay which is spaceships and the industry that supports them.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 20:31:00 -
[1484] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:You forgot about the furries and the roleplayers ,maybe it wil help us to take you serious
You seem very interested in furries.
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20388
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 20:33:00 -
[1485] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Do you happen to own a "hope and change" bumper sticker or poster?
I do... you can get them on NeX... just kidding.
I'm not saying that CCP should ignore everything that is broken in the game right now... and if they'd build a dedicated team for the whole "avatar gameplay" (not calling it WiS anymore) they wouldn't have to ignore them.
Look, I know the chances for the project ever taking off again are slim... very slim... but I believe that something could come out of it that actually would benefit the game... not only the "furries" and "roleplayers" ...that's all. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
114
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 22:26:00 -
[1486] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:I'm not saying that CCP should ignore everything that is broken in the game right now... and if they'd build a dedicated team for the whole "avatar gameplay" (not calling it WiS anymore) they wouldn't have to ignore them.
Any resources they waste on a separate team dedicated to roleplaying nonsense are resources that could have been used to improve and enhance Eve's core gameplay. |
Taiwanistan
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 06:00:00 -
[1487] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:handbanana wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Ok, so you want an example for how a simple room could generate income and maybe even draw new players? Fine... the hangar module for Star Citizen (more or less one simple hall with a ship in it) has been downloaded by approx 234.000 people right now... to get access to it, each of them had to donate at least 5$, not counting the money they actually payed for the module itself... remember: That hangar is nothing more then one room with a ship... no gameplay, hardly any interaction, and it will stay like that for the next 6 months.
...so, and now tell me it would not work for EVE. All CCP would have to do is add a social space similar to that hangar and/or open up the existing CQs for other players, then proceed to add vanity items like room decorations (model ships, pictures, or even a bar), new clothing and accessories (expanding the current NeX shop), and go from there ...believe me, it would work and it would bring new players. Why? Cause the industry shows that stuff like that works right now... given, it has to be done right, not like the last time - with a vision for future things to come behind it - but it would work.
Right now, all EVE is to most gamers is: "Spreadsheets in Space"... So, you want CCP to copy SC's model and accept donations for early access to incomplete features? Maybe if all the people who are pining for WIS did that, CCP could gauge what the actual demand is from their existing players and decide if its even worth it because they'd have real numbers to forecast with instead of feelings and trying to copy what other companies do. But, I have to believe you that it will work too? I lack that much faith in CCP's ability to deliver things that work on time that also meet player expectations. I think you mean it "could work" and not: "would work", because you have no idea unless you can predict the future. Given what went down last time, I'm convinced if CCP does release an updated version of "WIS" that does not contain something to do that aligns with EVE's cold and dark universe philosophy other than just being seen wearing or arranging vanity items, it's not going to bring in any new players. New subscribers is where CCP is going to be re-focused once iterations and re-balancing are good enough to do so. I look forward to seeing CCP's 3 year plan for EVE. If it happens to not contain any, or very limited avatar content, so be it, it's not going to be the doom and gloom scenario for EVE some people keep pushing. Do you happen to own a "hope and change" bumper sticker or poster? So ,there is a 3 year plan . So in 3 years CCP can handle their own software? why can't you just stay unsubbed? TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20435
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 06:07:00 -
[1488] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Any resources they waste on a separate team dedicated to roleplaying nonsense are resources that could have been used to improve and enhance Eve's core gameplay.
...why do you always have to add a derogatory word to your arguments? You don't think role playing is a valid part of a massively multiplayer online ROLEPLAYING game, we get it. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Taiwanistan
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 06:25:00 -
[1489] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Rhes wrote:Any resources they waste on a separate team dedicated to roleplaying nonsense are resources that could have been used to improve and enhance Eve's core gameplay. ...why do you always have to add a derogatory word to your arguments? You don't think role playing is a valid part of a massively multiplayer online ROLEPLAYING game, we get it. a bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other in a room, devoid of gameplay, is roleplaying? TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20442
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 07:42:00 -
[1490] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:a bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other in a room, devoid of gameplay, is roleplaying? FW, New Order, CVA, U'K, that's roleplaying
No, that's an opinion... That is roleplaying. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
682
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 10:42:00 -
[1491] - Quote
Don't feed the trolls.
For some reason they think that an announcement about game play involving the dangerous exploration of derelicts somehow equates to furries and emoting in a room. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
885
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:32:00 -
[1492] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Rhes wrote:The people paying for subscriptions. Here is how you can tell if the majority of players want Space Barbies: cancel your subs and if there are enough of you CCP will take action like they did after the mass cancellations when Incarna was released. ...and there he goes again with his "space barbies almost killed EVE" argument... FOX news my a**. You know what? Forget it, I'm done here... I tried to have a civil discussion, but all the arguments I get are machismo bu** sh*t... pardon my french... you don't see any meaning in avatar game play? Fine, I get it... still begs the question why you even bothered customizing your own avatar, but whatever... SC will hit next year and we will see how meaningful it can be... and how quickly CCP will make an 180 to compete with it.
Don't worry dear, they are goons after all. They go on and on trashing the RP and the space barbies and yet they make their avatar look like "angry black men" and act as they would. It's hilarious really. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 15:36:00 -
[1493] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Don't worry dear, they are goons after all. They go on and on trashing the RP and the space barbies and yet they make their avatar look like "angry black men" and act as they would. It's hilarious really.
Reported for racism.
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Lateris
34
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 15:50:00 -
[1494] - Quote
Lets get this thread back on subject please.
All gamers that I have talked to about Eve Online at some of the game conventions I have attended as well as Friday night gatherings of the dads (those of us with kids) all agree that the space game is the main focus of Eve, however- avatars are a viable conduit to expand our experience in the Eve Universe. Since 2011 we have seen the avatar for Eve boxed up and kept in a CQ which is a mistake. The entire protest that spawned this debate had to do with the cash shop. Lets get back to focusing on the future of Eve after the repair of Eve has been completed. One of the main complaints I have read over the years is how new content is added, revised, then never touched again such as Planetary Interaction. Now the CQ's fall under this as well. We all can agree that we love our ships but we also saw through the ploy of a cash shop with avatars. At the root of this is resources for developers, artist, etc. Lets look at the WOD tech and see how it can be applied to Eve Online. If we resist letting CCP grow Eve then we risk alienation and separation from the future of the 50 year plan. I am sure a well balanced development and deployment schedule can be set.
Personally, Dust 514 is not the solution for avatars in New Eden. We are. .:=[ObscuriLateris.com--áMining Corp]=:. .:=[ObscuriSoft.com- Soft Development]=:. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20502
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:03:00 -
[1495] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Reported for racism.
That's a racial stereotype used by the media, not racism... just saying.
Lateris wrote:Personally, Dust 514 is not the solution for avatars in New Eden. We are.
Very true Lateris, thank you! "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
619
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:15:00 -
[1496] - Quote
Lateris wrote: Lets look at the WOD tech and see how it can be applied to Eve Online. That was exactly what gave us CQ in the first place.
And it was the forced downscaling of the WoD development that left CQ in the state it is.
When the tech in WoD is at an acceptable level of functionality you can be sure that CCP is going to take a very close look on it to see what could be used in EvE. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
619
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:15:00 -
[1497] - Quote
double post CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:33:00 -
[1498] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Rhes wrote:Reported for racism. That's a racial stereotype even used by the media, not racism... just saying.
Only on Fox News.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 16:36:00 -
[1499] - Quote
Lateris wrote:Personally, Dust 514 is not the solution for avatars in New Eden.
At least you got this part right. Dust was always going to be a failure and people thinking that it can be used as a way to cram non-spaceship content into Eve are delusional. Again, resources that are currently being wasted on Dust should be refocused on Eve. WoD is just vaporware at this point so I'm not worried about it at all.
|
Lateris
34
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 18:29:00 -
[1500] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Lateris wrote:Personally, Dust 514 is not the solution for avatars in New Eden. At least you got this part right. Dust was always going to be a failure and people thinking that it can be used as a way to cram non-spaceship content into Eve are delusional. Again, resources that are currently being wasted on Dust should be refocused on Eve. WoD is just vaporware at this point so I'm not worried about it at all.
I think a fine line has to be drawn between Eve and Dust 514 in terms of content and talent, but make note I do support the deployment of Dust 514 and the integration into Eve as well as WiS. I don't support the cash shop for Eve, I feel the players should craft all clothing items which again requires resources and lots of time. I do feel Dust 514 has more potential after playing with the UDK development tools for the UT III Engine. And we can see MMO after MMO from South Korea with the same engine making rather large worlds to explore and play in. And I promise I do not imply to copy the wow formula (me hates wow). A FPS lobby is not essentially the sole solution for New Eden since it is so large. The strength behind Dust 514 is Eve and the technology that integrates both games, it is pioneering. The Dev's report from the beginning of this thread is how many pilots would appreciate a more Eve-sh approach to game play for an Eve avatar. Although the original plans for WiS in terms of content are still acceptable like Sec Wars.
After 2011 I doubt we will see any WiS for quite some time. I hope I am wrong. Maybe there is hope with colonization but I doubt it. Avatars just might be dead in this game due to the community and the cash shop. It might be dead as flying over the surface of a moon in Eve. time will tell-
Fly eradicate!!
.:=[ObscuriLateris.com--áMining Corp]=:. .:=[ObscuriSoft.com- Soft Development]=:. |
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
124
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 18:38:00 -
[1501] - Quote
Lateris wrote:After 2011 I doubt we will see any WiS for quite some time
You're welcome.
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Lateris
34
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 18:39:00 -
[1502] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Lateris wrote:After 2011 I doubt we will see any WiS for quite some time You're welcome.
Dude your too funny- I need to stop replying to your threads and get back to work lol/ Laters. .:=[ObscuriLateris.com--áMining Corp]=:. .:=[ObscuriSoft.com- Soft Development]=:. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 18:39:00 -
[1503] - Quote
Rhes wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:You forgot about the furries and the roleplayers ,maybe it wil help us to take you serious You seem very interested in furries.
my dog died ,i am.looking for a new pet R.S.I2014
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 18:40:00 -
[1504] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:I'm not saying that CCP should ignore everything that is broken in the game right now... and if they'd build a dedicated team for the whole "avatar gameplay" (not calling it WiS anymore) they wouldn't have to ignore them. Any resources they waste on a separate team dedicated to roleplaying nonsense are resources that could have been used to improve and enhance Eve's core gameplay.
Just put them on Valkerie and we will be fine right?? R.S.I2014
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 18:43:00 -
[1505] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote: why can't you just stay unsubbed?
came back to keep you companie on this friendly forum
R.S.I2014
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
127
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 18:58:00 -
[1506] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Rhes wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:I'm not saying that CCP should ignore everything that is broken in the game right now... and if they'd build a dedicated team for the whole "avatar gameplay" (not calling it WiS anymore) they wouldn't have to ignore them. Any resources they waste on a separate team dedicated to roleplaying nonsense are resources that could have been used to improve and enhance Eve's core gameplay. Just put them on Valkerie and we will be fine right??
Well at least Valkyrie is spaceship content.
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20515
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 19:02:00 -
[1507] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Well at least Valkyrie is spaceship content.
Yea... arcade, CoD style spaceship combat that will, most likely, never have anything to do with EVE...
...uh, right, no "space barbies", I forgot ...it gotta be alright then, right? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Taiwanistan
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 19:10:00 -
[1508] - Quote
you know tbh i'd be emoting with yall in wod when it get released, but please don't attach an useless tumor on eve "because a bunch of dudes really want to emote each other, in a room". TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
519
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 19:16:00 -
[1509] - Quote
If people use it, it ain't useless. Nightmares - A short story by Ch+¬ Biko |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
132
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 19:18:00 -
[1510] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Rhes wrote:Well at least Valkyrie is spaceship content. Yea... arcade, CoD style spaceship combat that will, most likely, never have anything to do with EVE... ...uh, right, no "space barbies", I forgot ...it gotta be alright then, right?
I'm not wildly enthusiastic about Valkyrie but I figure it will be vaporware like WoD so I'm not getting worked up about it. My point was that even though Valkyrie sounds kind of dumb it at least makes more sense than dance parties and clothing boutiques. |
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 20:10:00 -
[1511] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Rhes wrote:Well at least Valkyrie is spaceship content. Yea... arcade, CoD style spaceship combat that will, most likely, never have anything to do with EVE... ...uh, right, no "space barbies", I forgot ...it gotta be alright then, right? I'm not wildly enthusiastic about Valkyrie but I figure it will be vaporware like WoD so I'm not getting worked up about it. My point was that even though Valkyrie sounds kind of dumb it at least makes more sense than dance parties and clothing boutiques.
Try to spell that backwards and it says "i am dumb and dummer"
So Recourses waisted on out of EvE stuff is perfectly fine ,but on an EvE feature the Goons are getting furious. That drunk loudmouth must pay you a lot of isk to react to these forums
R.S.I2014
|
Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
50
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 21:16:00 -
[1512] - Quote
Rhes wrote:at least makes more sense than dance parties and clothing boutiques.
This guy is just a super forum troll. Logic is impervious to the thickness of his skull. Any argument, no matter how well crafted will have him spouting 'Herp derp, barbies and furries" nonsense because he has no real argument. This works great in convincing absolutely no one of any actual cons to walking in stations. All it does is show how much of a **** this guy is, or anyone who genuinely believes that the implementation of WiS would be equivalent to barbies and furries.
EvE is a great game, and it will grow to be even better when everyone starts ignoring people with no imagination or vision. The word "never" should be changes to, 'if we can figure out how to correctly implement". |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
149
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 21:22:00 -
[1513] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Rhes wrote:at least makes more sense than dance parties and clothing boutiques. This guy is just a super forum troll. Logic is impervious to the thickness of his skull. Any argument, no matter how well crafted will have him spouting 'Herp derp, barbies and furries" nonsense because he has no real argument. This works great in convincing absolutely no one of any actual cons to walking in stations. All it does is show how much of a **** this guy is, or anyone who genuinely believes that the implementation of WiS would be equivalent to barbies and furries. EvE is a great game, and it will grow to be even better when everyone starts ignoring people with no imagination or vision. The word "never" should be changes to, 'if we can figure out how to correctly implement".
Here is some logic for you: When CCP added WiS to the game they lost a ton of subscribers. When they apologized and promised to focus on spaceships again they stopped losing subscribers. When they actually did what they promised to do subscriptions have risen every quarter since Incarna. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 21:23:00 -
[1514] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:"i am dumb and dummer"
Thanks for participating.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1820
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 22:11:00 -
[1515] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Silent Rambo wrote:Rhes wrote:at least makes more sense than dance parties and clothing boutiques. This guy is just a super forum troll. Logic is impervious to the thickness of his skull. Any argument, no matter how well crafted will have him spouting 'Herp derp, barbies and furries" nonsense because he has no real argument. This works great in convincing absolutely no one of any actual cons to walking in stations. All it does is show how much of a **** this guy is, or anyone who genuinely believes that the implementation of WiS would be equivalent to barbies and furries. EvE is a great game, and it will grow to be even better when everyone starts ignoring people with no imagination or vision. The word "never" should be changes to, 'if we can figure out how to correctly implement". Here is some logic for you: When CCP added WiS to the game they lost a ton of subscribers. When they apologized and promised to focus on spaceships again they stopped losing subscribers. When they actually did what they promised to do subscriptions have risen every quarter since Incarna.
OK, blocked. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
157
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 22:35:00 -
[1516] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:OK, blocked.
Blocking: The end move of the person who lost the argument.
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
372
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 23:41:00 -
[1517] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Silent Rambo wrote:Rhes wrote:at least makes more sense than dance parties and clothing boutiques. This guy is just a super forum troll. Logic is impervious to the thickness of his skull. Any argument, no matter how well crafted will have him spouting 'Herp derp, barbies and furries" nonsense because he has no real argument. This works great in convincing absolutely no one of any actual cons to walking in stations. All it does is show how much of a **** this guy is, or anyone who genuinely believes that the implementation of WiS would be equivalent to barbies and furries. EvE is a great game, and it will grow to be even better when everyone starts ignoring people with no imagination or vision. The word "never" should be changes to, 'if we can figure out how to correctly implement". Here is some logic for you: When CCP added WiS to the game they lost a ton of subscribers. When they apologized and promised to focus on spaceships again they stopped losing subscribers. When they actually did what they promised to do subscriptions have risen every quarter since Incarna.
People cancelled because of the gold ammo and pay to win crap as per the leaked memo, not the avatar stuff. I think CCP are going to regret lack of avatar game play when their competitor's start eating to their market share and subs drop. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
158
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 23:42:00 -
[1518] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:People cancelled because of the gold ammo and pay to win crap as per the leaked memo, not the avatar stuff. I think CCP are going to regret lack of avatar game play when their competitor's start eating to their market share and subs drop.
No, people canceled because Eve was ignored for two years and all we had to show for it was a room with a couch and a laughably bad microtransaction store. Why do you want CCP to ignore Eve again?
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
372
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 23:45:00 -
[1519] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:People cancelled because of the gold ammo and pay to win crap as per the leaked memo, not the avatar stuff. I think CCP are going to regret lack of avatar game play when their competitor's start eating to their market share and subs drop. No, people canceled because Eve was ignored for two years and all we had to show for it was a room with a couch and a laughably bad microtransaction store. Why do you want CCP to ignore Eve again?
It's been ignored ever since, ui changes and balancing ships are not expansions. Dust got all of the love, not eve. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
158
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:00:00 -
[1520] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:People cancelled because of the gold ammo and pay to win crap as per the leaked memo, not the avatar stuff. I think CCP are going to regret lack of avatar game play when their competitor's start eating to their market share and subs drop. No, people canceled because Eve was ignored for two years and all we had to show for it was a room with a couch and a laughably bad microtransaction store. Why do you want CCP to ignore Eve again? It's been ignored ever since, ui changes and balancing ships are not expansions. Dust got all of the love, not eve.
Actually Eve is in a great place now compared to where it was right before Incarna was released. Long-abandoned ship classes are being used regularly, Tidi has made awesome fleet fights possible, the UI is finally becoming useable, etc. It's a testament to what CCP can accomplish when they aren't catering to furries. |
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 02:42:00 -
[1521] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:OK, blocked. Blocking: The end move of the person who lost the argument. What argument ? Sometimes people get enough from people repeating the same over and over again
R.S.I2014
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 02:44:00 -
[1522] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:People cancelled because of the gold ammo and pay to win crap as per the leaked memo, not the avatar stuff. I think CCP are going to regret lack of avatar game play when their competitor's start eating to their market share and subs drop. No, people canceled because Eve was ignored for two years and all we had to show for it was a room with a couch and a laughably bad microtransaction store. Why do you want CCP to ignore Eve again? It's been ignored ever since, ui changes and balancing ships are not expansions. Dust got all of the love, not eve. Actually Eve is in a great place now compared to where it was right before Incarna was released. Long-abandoned ship classes are being used regularly, Tidi has made awesome fleet fights possible, the UI is finally becoming useable, etc. It's a testament to what CCP can accomplish when they aren't catering to furries.
Since you blame Wis for the rage ,let CCP roll back those 2 years and start over again from there and lets see how good this game is without recoding EvE software .One of the things they did for the most part in that time. R.S.I2014
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ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 03:52:00 -
[1523] - Quote
I have Cleaned many Off topic and Trolling Posts from this thread. This Tread is being monitored for Forum Rule violations.
Please keep the discussion on topic and respectful of other player's opinions.
ISD Gallifreyan Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCL) Interstellar Services Department |
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Flamespar
Woof Club
684
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 05:23:00 -
[1524] - Quote
Funny how out of all the tens of thousands of EVE players, Rhes is the only one that is vocally against the implementation of meaningful avatar content.
Looks like new stuff for avatars is a virtual certainty. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20530
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 05:33:00 -
[1525] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Looks like new stuff for avatars is a virtual certainty.
As I said: I sure hope so... I mean, one thing always stuck me as odd: Why would CCP even leave the CQs in the game, if they never will expand upon? Also: DUST bunnies got their own "MQs", and they got a "common area"... from a design consistency standpoint alone, there should be something similar in EVE, no? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
208
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 06:14:00 -
[1526] - Quote
Indeed there is such a feature as "hide posts" in this forum, which is nice. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1820
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 07:00:00 -
[1527] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Flamespar wrote:Looks like new stuff for avatars is a virtual certainty. As I said: I sure hope so... I mean, one thing always stuck me as odd: Why would CCP even leave the CQs in the game, if they never will expand upon? Also: DUST bunnies got their own "MQs", and they got a "common area"... from a design consistency standpoint alone, there should be something similar in EVE, no? ...and Rhes: You sound like broken record. I will ignore you from now on, since you have made it clear that you don't want to add to the discussion in any meaningful way.
Heh, probably removing the CQ is not worth the trouble, so they're just not working on it.
But anyway, avatar customization is a different topic than WiS. The NEx store coud be updated and expanded, and further work on avatars could be done (does someone recall Fanfest 2012's racial blending?) without any gameplay added, just for vanity. Provided how much cost the tattoos, albeit being few and fugly, it's obvious that there is interest to make your character outstand from the crowd.
Of course, allowing avatar customization is a road that would build up pressure to allow displaying the vanity items in game, which in turn leads to add multiplayer avatar content of the "non-meaningful gameplay" type (where "non-meaningful means "we can't f*ck you for it").
The bleeding irony of selling 150 euros non-meaningful content and yet being shitscared of adding "non-meaningful" content to the game is, well, bleeding.
"MEANINGFUL" is what your customers mean, not what a little bunch of forum trolls claim. *I* would deem perfectly "meaningful" for me to keep running missions just to build up a wardrobe for my female characters, i.e. pay a subscription to get vanity items. And what could be more meaningful to CCP, than have some sucker pay 15 euros/month to dress up some 3D dolls? Without no balancing issues, no legacy coding issues, no unforeseen backlash... just sweet monies into CCP wallet...
...If they have the galls to tell the whiners to HTFU and beat it as some players in EVE would rather buy a skirt than give a darn of the whole nullsec mechanics. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20544
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 07:07:00 -
[1528] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Of course, allowing avatar customization is a road that would build up pressure to allow displaying the vanity items in game, which in turn leads to add multiplayer avatar content of the "non-meaningful gameplay" type (where "non-meaningful" means "we can't f*ck you for it").
Haha... yea, that's quite right, I reckon.
Imagine CCP announcing, say station gameplay, with the ability to shoot and kill everyone, everywhere with a pistol... the tone of the naysayers would change quite suddenly... or manybe not, since the other people could shoot back just as easily, not all of them would be used to that. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
174
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 13:50:00 -
[1529] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Funny how out of all the tens of thousands of EVE players, Rhes is the only one that is vocally against the implementation of meaningful avatar content.
Looks like new stuff for avatars is a virtual certainty.
I speak for the thousands of people who canceled their accounts after Incarna went live. Also, if there was really a great demand for WiS beyond the handful of furries who keep propping up this thread CCP wouldn't have disbanded Team Avatar.
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
904
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:35:00 -
[1530] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:Funny how out of all the tens of thousands of EVE players, Rhes is the only one that is vocally against the implementation of meaningful avatar content.
Looks like new stuff for avatars is a virtual certainty. I speak for the thousands of people who canceled their accounts after Incarna went live. Also, if there was really a great demand for WiS beyond the handful of furries who keep propping up this thread CCP wouldn't have disbanded Team Avatar.
Can I see the signed proxy forms that name you their spokesman? This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 17:21:00 -
[1531] - Quote
Rhes wrote: I speak for the thousands of people who canceled their accounts after Incarna went live. Also, if there was really a great demand for WiS beyond the handful of furries who keep propping up this thread CCP wouldn't have disbanded Team Avatar.
Brah, you might wanna take a pill and chill while reading the OP for this thread again.
CCP Bayesian wrote: The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive.
Team Avatar might be disbanded, and it's members working on side projects, but the exploration prototype (which itself will be a propeller for the station avatar and social gameplay) they developed and presented to the stakeholders, CSM and company with overwhelmingly positive feedback is being braised and standing by for deployment when they get back to work on EVE. What better proof of that than recent CCP Soundwave's ragequit upon being presented with the plan for a plan to a plan for a roadmap by CCP Seagull? Way I see it you and your goon mates got 2 option here: either HTFU and get on with the program or follow your buddy's lead and ask to quit brahs. |
Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
51
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 17:26:00 -
[1532] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Can I see the signed proxy forms that name you their spokesman?
Can we just ignore the troll and get back to the discussion? I reported him, hope he at least gets banned from this thread so it can stay on topic, and without the petty name calling.
I don't think shooting game play initially is the way to go. The original idea was sound, a place to unwind and relax while doing social things seems like a good idea to me. All the riots were because captains quarters isn't this. It was not social, it was useless, and it was forced on us. Ship spinning was removed which angered many. The overpriced Nex store, and the "Greed is good" memo also caused distrust and spite between players and CCP. I don't think anyone here really wants an overpriced clothing store for their avatars. They want to walk in stations, talk to people and do the whole multiplayer thing there too. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:36:00 -
[1533] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Silent Rambo wrote:Rhes wrote:at least makes more sense than dance parties and clothing boutiques. This guy is just a super forum troll. Logic is impervious to the thickness of his skull. Any argument, no matter how well crafted will have him spouting 'Herp derp, barbies and furries" nonsense because he has no real argument. This works great in convincing absolutely no one of any actual cons to walking in stations. All it does is show how much of a **** this guy is, or anyone who genuinely believes that the implementation of WiS would be equivalent to barbies and furries. EvE is a great game, and it will grow to be even better when everyone starts ignoring people with no imagination or vision. The word "never" should be changes to, 'if we can figure out how to correctly implement". Here is some logic for you: When CCP added WiS to the game they lost a ton of subscribers. When they apologized and promised to focus on spaceships again they stopped losing subscribers. When they actually did what they promised to do subscriptions have risen every quarter since Incarna.
Wrong Don,t mixup Incarna and WIS R.S.I2014
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20698
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:47:00 -
[1534] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Can we just ignore the troll and get back to the discussion? I reported him, hope he at least gets banned from this thread so it can stay on topic, and without the petty name calling. Right, "hide posts" really helps with that.
Silent Rambo wrote:They want to walk in stations, talk to people and do the whole multiplayer thing there too. Exactly, and I still think EVE needs that... I mean, social interaction in EVE IS meaningful (bartering, diplomacy, espionage, etc.), it always was, why not give it proper visual represenation? Also: There is ton of great lore, as Ish always points out, that lies virtually unused, save for a few flavor texts... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
52
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:08:00 -
[1535] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote: Right, "hide posts" really helps with that.
I didn't know about this amazing feature, but thanks for pointing it out!
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20699
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:21:00 -
[1536] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:I didn't know about this amazing feature, but thanks for pointing it out! Your're most welcome hon. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1824
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:47:00 -
[1537] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: I speak for the thousands of people who canceled their accounts after Incarna went live. Also, if there was really a great demand for WiS beyond the handful of furries who keep propping up this thread CCP wouldn't have disbanded Team Avatar.
Brah, you might wanna take a pill and chill while reading the OP for this thread again: CCP Bayesian wrote: The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive.
Team Avatar might be disbanded, and its members working on side projects, but the exploration prototype (which itself will be a propeller for the station avatar and social gameplay) they developed and presented to the stakeholders, CSM and company with overwhelmingly positive feedback is being braised and standing by for deployment when they get back to work on EVE. What better proof of that than recent CCP Soundwave's ragequit upon being presented with the plan for a plan to a plan for a roadmap by CCP Seagull? You can cry and tantrum all you want. Way I see it you and your goon mates got 2 options here: either HTFU and get on with the program or follow your buddy's lead and ask to quit brahs.
Houm, I wouldn't call that. Albeit I am a bit puzzled by how a LARPer head designer(?) could be hired to make a roadmap without any bloody RP in it, I still want to know the details of the Hallelujah Plan before going into the appropiate forum-mode.
Not even a staunch pesimist like me is entitled to call for doom and gloom without at least giving CCP a chance. I *know* the plan will be a waste*, but at least I'm willing to learn of it, just in case CCP starts "getting it".
*how do I know? From what's been hinted, it revolves about adding more space accesible through player made gates, which means it will be a mere extension of the uberalliance-fueled conquer-and-hold game of which 70% of the players don't give a darn. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
53
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 20:03:00 -
[1538] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: From what's been hinted, it revolves about adding more space accesible through player made gates, which means it will be a mere extension of the uberalliance-fueled conquer-and-hold game of which 70% of the players don't give a darn.
Hopefully they can fix things so large alliances/coalitions can be hurt and hurt badly by smaller corporations/alliances before something like this is implemented. If they make blobs and brute force numbers obsolete in favor of tactics beyond what we see now, then you'll see regimes toppled (and forums filled with nullsec whiners saying CCP destroyed nullsec). |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20707
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 20:12:00 -
[1539] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:If they make blobs and brute force numbers obsolete in favor of tactics beyond what we see now, then you'll see regimes toppled (and forums filled with nullsec whiners saying CCP destroyed nullsec).
Aw tish tosh, we'll see that anyhow... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
181
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 20:37:00 -
[1540] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Can we just ignore the troll and get back to the discussion? I reported him, hope he at least gets banned from this thread so it can stay on topic, and without the petty name calling.
I like how you guys can't even conceive that not everybody wants Eve to turn into Second Life in space and it messes with your head so much that you take steps like reporting other posters for disagreeing with you.
|
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Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
53
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:03:00 -
[1541] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Aw tish tosh, we'll see that anyhow...
Probably true. We will very likely see some Avatar gameplay after Sov fixes and after POS fixes. This post might be a year old, but they had a working prototype then so I assume they aren't going to waste assets and trash all the ideas they have built up, just push them further away. The iteration on existing features is coming to a close, the majority of the balancing done, faction warfare is revamped, exploration is revamped, we have new ships, crime watch, and a bunch of tweaks and such. One the other two big tweaks are finished, I assume the time table is around a year for that, then we will see new stuff come out. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:08:00 -
[1542] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:This post might be a year old, but they had a working prototype then so I assume they aren't going to waste assets and trash all the ideas they have built up...
They had a working prototype of Incarna back in 2008, station promenades, establishments and everything, and they apparently threw it away after the fanfest. Though this isn't exactly unheard of in gaming industry, the most infamous example being Duke Nukem Forever that went through something like probably 7 development phases before another studio took it over. And Blizzard has trashed their mystery MMO (codenamed Titan) at least twice. |
Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
53
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:13:00 -
[1543] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote: They had a working prototype of Incarna back in 2008, station promenades, establishments and everything, and they apparently threw it away after the fanfest. Though this isn't exactly unheard of in gaming industry, the most infamous example being Duke Nukem Forever that went through something like probably 7 development phases before another studio took it over. And Blizzard has trashed their mystery MMO (codenamed Titan) at least twice.
Where did you hear that? That would have been stupid lol, those assets are still worth something (if done well). I assume the majority of the models and textures exist. I know about Duke Nukem forever, the main reason they continued trashing assets was because of engine changes, and just a really really long dev period. Honestly the 5 year old assets still look pretty impressive even by today's standards, it would be foolish to throw them away.
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:40:00 -
[1544] - Quote
Well, if they had the assets still, don't you think they would have released more than just one QC at the start? That, reportedly also got shrunk, as it was originally supposed to have a separate "disembarkment room" for the pod.
Just deductive reasoning, no trusted sources this time. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3512
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:27:00 -
[1545] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Just deductive reasoning, no trusted sources this time.
The same would also apply to most of the "giev WIS naow!!!" posts in this and other threads. Most of the data and etc used to further that position are presented matter-of-factly, but in reality turn out to be only emotionally fueled and pulled directly from a rectum.
I'd love to see the stats regarding how many active players' characters have CQ turned on right now. But, CCP isn't likely ever to divulge that because of how small the number is, ya know, because :deductive reasoning: and all that. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20710
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:43:00 -
[1546] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:I'd love to see the stats regarding how many active players' characters have CQ turned on right now. But, CCP isn't likely ever to divulge that because of how small the number is, ya know, because :deductive reasoning: and all that.
...and that's another opinion presented matter-of-factly ...you know what they say about opinions and rectums, don't you? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3513
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:45:00 -
[1547] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I'd love to see the stats regarding how many active players' characters have CQ turned on right now. But, CCP isn't likely ever to divulge that because of how small the number is, ya know, because :deductive reasoning: and all that. ...and that's another opinion presented matter-of-factly ...you know what they say about opinions and rectums, don't you?
Reading comprehension is fundamental. I bolded the relevant bit to help.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20710
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:48:00 -
[1548] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Reading comprehension is fundamental. I bolded the relevant bit to help. Ah... no, sorry, I don't get it... then again, English is not my first language. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
687
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 23:46:00 -
[1549] - Quote
It was mentioned that about 25% of players have their CQ enabled at a previous CSM I think.
And this is despite there being nothing to do in it, and it no longer being where new players start. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3513
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 00:47:00 -
[1550] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It was mentioned that about 25% of players have their CQ enabled at a previous CSM I think.
And this is despite there being nothing to do in it, and it no longer being where new players start. [citation needed]
Also, reading comprehension is fundamental. I have bolded and italicized the relevant bit.
Doc Fury wrote: I'd love to see the stats regarding how many active players' characters have CQ turned on right now.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
182
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 03:11:00 -
[1551] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:The same would also apply to most of the "giev WIS naow!!!" posts in this and other threads. Most of the data and etc used to further that position are presented matter-of-factly, but in reality turn out to be only emotionally fueled and pulled directly from a rectum.
CCP is never going to release the number of people who still have CQ turned on because the entire WiS fiasco was a huge black stain on the game and on CCP's reputation. I still don't understand why this thread is open considering Team Avatar has been disbanded and the roleplayers and furries have their own ghetto forum where they can go and talk about dance parties. |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
635
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 03:24:00 -
[1552] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Doc Fury wrote:The same would also apply to most of the "giev WIS naow!!!" posts in this and other threads. Most of the data and etc used to further that position are presented matter-of-factly, but in reality turn out to be only emotionally fueled and pulled directly from a rectum. CCP is never going to release the number of people who still have CQ turned on because the entire WiS fiasco was a huge black stain on the game and on CCP's reputation. I still don't understand why this thread is open considering Team Avatar has been disbanded and the roleplayers and furries have their own ghetto forum where they can go and talk about dance parties.
I think you are out of trash talk and if you are "claiming" that WiS is stop i think you got more issues than trash talk. The have sayed that the will reveal more in 2014 about the WiS and even open the door. Now please stop talking with your trash talk. Keep hating dude keep hating this will give more people to argue with you than any other dude telling about the real stuff.
The only problem with WiS is that people like you are a dude from the past. Saying like my old dad and my granpa that the "old" days are better. But you forgot if we stick in the past we die. Progress my boy progress the WiS will give eve a new look and better story telling better interact then chatting and see only some text..... Its like when the first chat boxs get life back in 1987. Every one wants to chat back then. Now nobody do. Progress keep your anger for your self. Let the new down get bird i bett you will like it even when you hate it the first time.
The WiS will boost eve online. Not only the $ but also more people that perhaps will stay.
The only fiasco is you`re kind of people sticking in the past afread to change. Thats why we still living on planet earth in real life. Get over your self keep your cave man reaction to your self. /end of debate on this matter. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
182
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 03:37:00 -
[1553] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:The WiS will boost eve online
I guess you didn't play when Incarna was released.
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
787
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 03:38:00 -
[1554] - Quote
It's nice I don't have to worry about EVE WiS anymore - too busy running around my ship in Star Citizen hangar. Funny how $40 pledge may quickly turn into $65 and then $110 when you can sit and walk inside ships... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
182
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 03:40:00 -
[1555] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:It's nice I don't have to worry about EVE WiS anymore
You're welcome
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Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 03:42:00 -
[1556] - Quote
The thing is all that negative posting and unnecessary name-calling by Rhes brings anything related to WiS on front forum page, where CCP can see how many ppl actually care about it.
Actually, I think he is the biggest WiS fan.
In other words, thanks for all the bumps from us, "furries," Rhes |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
182
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 03:49:00 -
[1557] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:The thing is all that negative posting and unnecessary name-calling by Rhes brings anything related to WiS on front forum page, where CCP can see how many ppl actually care about it. Actually, I think he is the biggest WiS fan. In other words, thanks for all the bumps from us, "furries," Rhes
Considering that Team Avatar doesn't even exist anymore I'm not too worried about. I also enjoy posting and believe in never stop posting.
Also, there is no need to put the word furries in quotes. They are real.
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Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
282
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 03:56:00 -
[1558] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:The thing is all that negative posting and unnecessary name-calling by Rhes brings anything related to WiS on front forum page, where CCP can see how many ppl actually care about it. Actually, I think he is the biggest WiS fan. In other words, thanks for all the bumps from us, "furries," Rhes
Do yourself a favor and use the "hide posts" feature on that rediculous troll like most everyone else has.
The sooner people stop wasting time replying to that tool, the sooner we can get back to the conversation of what wee need to do to keep WiS moving forward.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
182
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 04:06:00 -
[1559] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:rediculous troll
No need for so much anger, friend.
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
627
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 04:35:00 -
[1560] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:
The only problem with WiS is that people like you are a dude from the past.
No.
The problem is that CCP doesn't have the code to provide anything close to a releasable avatar based game yet.
(Note that they banned any capture or rebroadcast from the WoD demo at fanfest).
They could have it quite fast if they decided to to go that way.
But going that way without also knowing what they want to do with it and committing that resources to provide it would be business suicide.
(They've tried that, they know.)
Just opening the door and just providing a bleeping corridor that would allow people to bump into each other if docked at same station would require a serious investment of resources based on the current functionality.
And for the "just let us have a bar where we can hang out out with our corpies"-crowd.
Good, write that based on the current code base and you'll have a great future in the industry since you're obviously a magician.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 04:45:00 -
[1561] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:(Note that they banned any capture or rebroadcast from the WoD demo at fanfest).
I hadn't heard that. Hi-lar-ious.
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
631
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 04:57:00 -
[1562] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:(Note that they banned any capture or rebroadcast from the WoD demo at fanfest). I hadn't heard that. Hi-lar-ious. They did show in-game footage from WoD at fanfest but asked/begged that it shouldn't be recorded and published.
As a project lead can understand why, since I don't like wasting my time explaining to wannabe reporters why stuff doesn't look the way they think it should in the middle of a dev cycle.
Stuff _is_ happening in Georgia, WoD and the avatar based engine is far from dead.
(Nor far from Undead, given their IP).
But it's not what we have in CQ, and it's not ready to replace what we have, yet.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
184
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 04:59:00 -
[1563] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:They did show in-game footage from WoD at fanfest but asked/begged that it shouldn't be recorded and published.
As a project lead can understand why, since I don't like wasting my time explaining to wannabe reporters why stuff doesn't look the way they think it should in the middle of a dev cycle.
Stuff _is_ happening in Georgia, WoD and the avatar based engine is far from dead.
(Nor far from Undead, given their IP).
But it's not what we have in CQ, and it's not ready to replace what we have, yet.
I think we all knew that after all the video cards getting set on fire that the engine they used for Eve's WiS was never going to work in an avatar based MMO.
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Flamespar
Woof Club
687
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 05:37:00 -
[1564] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Rhes wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:(Note that they banned any capture or rebroadcast from the WoD demo at fanfest). I hadn't heard that. Hi-lar-ious. They did show in-game footage from WoD at fanfest but asked/begged that it shouldn't be recorded and published. As a project lead can understand why, since I don't like wasting my time explaining to wannabe reporters why stuff doesn't look the way they think it should in the middle of a dev cycle. Stuff _is_ happening in Georgia, WoD and the avatar based engine is far from dead. (Nor far from Undead, given their IP). But it's not what we have in CQ, and it's not ready to replace what we have, yet.
Since EVE is funding WoD development. I think it is only fair that it should benefit from the avatar technology they develop. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20726
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:31:00 -
[1565] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Since EVE is funding WoD development. I think it is only fair that it should benefit from the avatar technology they develop.
Well, I also thought it would be fair to bringt DUST to PC out of the same reason... but hey, maybe, some day?
On having the the CQ active: I practically "used" it from day one, it just became the way stations look like for me. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1825
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 06:43:00 -
[1566] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Flamespar wrote:Since EVE is funding WoD development. I think it is only fair that it should benefit from the avatar technology they develop. Well, I also thought it would be fair to bringt DUST to PC out of the same reason... but hey, maybe, some day? On having the the CQ active: I practically "used" it from day one, it just became the way stations look like for me.
Well, actually WoD development was detached form EVE so essentially the Carbon engine they're using in WoD no longer is compatible with EVE's own Carbon. This means that whenever they want to implement WiS, they'll have to port their avatar engine from WoD, but they are not taking that in account. So as far as CCP is concerned, they're letting WoD become a round plug and EVE a square plug, and assuming that if they ever try to plug them together, they'll have to make a lot of adaptation work.
As for the CQ, it takes so long to load that it hampers my usability of stations, so it's turned off. I turn it on each now and then, but it's not functional when I can dock, swap ships and undock in hangar view before it as much as loads the CQ... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
202
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 09:30:00 -
[1567] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Flamespar wrote:Since EVE is funding WoD development. I think it is only fair that it should benefit from the avatar technology they develop. Well, I also thought it would be fair to bringt DUST to PC out of the same reason... but hey, maybe, some day? On having the the CQ active: I practically "used" it from day one, it just became the way stations look like for me. Well, actually WoD development was detached form EVE so essentially the Carbon engine they're using in WoD no longer is compatible with EVE's own Carbon. This means that whenever they want to implement WiS, they'll have to port their avatar engine from WoD, but they are not taking that in account. So as far as CCP is concerned, they're letting WoD become a round plug and EVE a square plug, and assuming that if they ever try to plug them together, they'll have to make a lot of adaptation work. As for the CQ, it takes so long to load that it hampers my usability of stations, so it's turned off. I turn it on each now and then, but it's not functional when I can dock, swap ships and undock in hangar view before it as much as loads the CQ...
Um, source? Because... it's an engine... there's always going to be a bit of porting and tweaking but this whole idea of "square hole, round plug" for what is, essentially, still the same engine with the same low level hooks sounds ... weird to put it mildly. So, source for this claim? |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 10:17:00 -
[1568] - Quote
Rhes wrote: I like how you guys can't even conceive that not everybody wants Eve to turn into Second Life in space and it messes with your head so much that you take steps like reporting other posters for disagreeing with you.
Rhes wrote:CCP is never going to release the number of people who still have CQ turned on because the entire WiS fiasco was a huge black stain on the game and on CCP's reputation. I still don't understand why this thread is open considering Team Avatar has been disbanded and the roleplayers and furries have their own ghetto forum where they can go and talk about dance parties.
Uninstall EVE and go play LoL brah http://beta.euw.leagueoflegends.com/ you're safe from furries in there, only 12 year olds allowed. You can't RP men not scared of women with your goon buddies like in Second Life but you can make some new friends with the same level of intellect and maturity, maybe even borrow their parent's credit cards. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 10:49:00 -
[1569] - Quote
Rhes wrote: I speak for the thousands of people who canceled their accounts after Incarna went live. Also, if there was really a great demand for WiS beyond the handful of furries who keep propping up this thread CCP wouldn't have disbanded Team Avatar.
Rhes wrote:CCP is never going to release the number of people who still have CQ turned on because the entire WiS fiasco was a huge black stain on the game and on CCP's reputation. I still don't understand why this thread is open considering Team Avatar has been disbanded and the roleplayers and furries have their own ghetto forum where they can go and talk about dance parties.
Uninstall EVE and go play LoL brah http://beta.euw.leagueoflegends.com/ you're safe from furries there, only 12 year olds allowed. You can't RP men not afraid of women with your goon buddies like in Second Life but you can make new friends with the same level of intellect and maturity, maybe even borrow their parents' credit cards. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1825
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 12:57:00 -
[1570] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Flamespar wrote:Since EVE is funding WoD development. I think it is only fair that it should benefit from the avatar technology they develop. Well, I also thought it would be fair to bringt DUST to PC out of the same reason... but hey, maybe, some day? On having the the CQ active: I practically "used" it from day one, it just became the way stations look like for me. Well, actually WoD development was detached form EVE so essentially the Carbon engine they're using in WoD no longer is compatible with EVE's own Carbon. This means that whenever they want to implement WiS, they'll have to port their avatar engine from WoD, but they are not taking that in account. So as far as CCP is concerned, they're letting WoD become a round plug and EVE a square plug, and assuming that if they ever try to plug them together, they'll have to make a lot of adaptation work. As for the CQ, it takes so long to load that it hampers my usability of stations, so it's turned off. I turn it on each now and then, but it's not functional when I can dock, swap ships and undock in hangar view before it as much as loads the CQ... Um, source? Because... it's an engine... there's always going to be a bit of porting and tweaking but this whole idea of "square hole, round plug" for what is, essentially, still the same engine with the same low level hooks sounds ... weird to put it mildly. So, source for this claim?
Here: http://www.wodnews.net/Home/tabid/41/Article/750/Exclusive-IncarnaCarbon-Forked-Between-EVE-and-WoD-MMO.aspx
With macro development detached since roughly november 2011, essentially whatever goes on in WoD will stay in WoD and anything made at EVE (i.e. zero, nothing, nada) would be EVE only. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
905
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 13:18:00 -
[1571] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:It's nice I don't have to worry about EVE WiS anymore - too busy running around my ship in Star Citizen hangar. Funny how $40 pledge may quickly turn into $65 and then $110 when you can sit and walk inside ships...
My initial $35 turned into $250 pledge and I added a $100 Drake pirate ship, might splurge on something else before November. And I will think of the goon and his hate for WiS and have a smile on my face as I part with the cash. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3514
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 13:29:00 -
[1572] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Lipbite wrote:It's nice I don't have to worry about EVE WiS anymore - too busy running around my ship in Star Citizen hangar. Funny how $40 pledge may quickly turn into $65 and then $110 when you can sit and walk inside ships... My initial $35 turned into $250 pledge and I added a $100 Drake pirate ship, might splurge on something else before November. And I will think of the goon and his hate for WiS and have a smile on my face as I part with the cash.
The economy of Iceland is now reeling and austerity measures are kicking-in because CCP did not receive your $350.00.
Please do get back to us when there's an actual game that can be subscribed to and played against thousands of other people.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
907
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 13:37:00 -
[1573] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:Lipbite wrote:It's nice I don't have to worry about EVE WiS anymore - too busy running around my ship in Star Citizen hangar. Funny how $40 pledge may quickly turn into $65 and then $110 when you can sit and walk inside ships... My initial $35 turned into $250 pledge and I added a $100 Drake pirate ship, might splurge on something else before November. And I will think of the goon and his hate for WiS and have a smile on my face as I part with the cash. The economy of Iceland is now reeling and austerity measures are kicking-in because CCP did not receive your $350.00. Please do get back to us when there's an actual game that can be subscribed to and played against thousands of other people.
Hey I'm still paying CCP, 2 accounts worth. I also would wish that Eve actually went down a path that SC is taking because it would make it literally the BEST game out there. However if Eve lacks WiS when SC comes out then it will be it's loss not mine. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20760
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 13:43:00 -
[1574] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Hey I'm still paying CCP, 2 accounts worth. I also would wish that Eve actually went down a path that SC is taking because it would make it literally the BEST game out there. However if Eve lacks WiS when SC comes out then it will be it's loss not mine.
Exactly... and that has nothing to do with SC's release model or the, persumed gameplay of the finished product... no, it's the base concept of an unified scifie experience. The lore and unique style of New Eden is so much more then what actually is represented in game (visually and otherwise). Why have all this lore if nobody can experience it? That what boggles my mind... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3514
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 13:46:00 -
[1575] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Doc Fury wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:Lipbite wrote:It's nice I don't have to worry about EVE WiS anymore - too busy running around my ship in Star Citizen hangar. Funny how $40 pledge may quickly turn into $65 and then $110 when you can sit and walk inside ships... My initial $35 turned into $250 pledge and I added a $100 Drake pirate ship, might splurge on something else before November. And I will think of the goon and his hate for WiS and have a smile on my face as I part with the cash. The economy of Iceland is now reeling and austerity measures are kicking-in because CCP did not receive your $350.00. Please do get back to us when there's an actual game that can be subscribed to and played against thousands of other people. I also would wish that Eve actually went down a path that SC is taking because it would make it literally the BEST game out there. However if Eve lacks WiS when SC comes out then it will be it's loss not mine.
You will excuse me if I don't hold my breath, I'm already playing the best game out there today. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20766
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 14:14:00 -
[1576] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:You will excuse me if I don't hold my breath, I'm already playing the best game out there today. Them I'm certain you will excuse us, if we think CCP could still aim higher, no? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
636
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 14:20:00 -
[1577] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Forking the code base letting and the WoD team go ahead coding parts that are vital to the success of their product makes perfect sense.
But it does not in any way, shape or form eliminate the possibility of merging their improvements back into the EvE track once there's something good enough to be merged and a solid plan behind it's use.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3516
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 14:28:00 -
[1578] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Doc Fury wrote:You will excuse me if I don't hold my breath, I'm already playing the best game out there today. Them I'm certain you will excuse us, if we think CCP could still aim higher, no?
Sure, but you are aiming at the wrong stuff. CCP isn't working on WIS, they shelved it and dissolved Team Avatar to focus on the things that make CCP money today. Nothing realistic you guys are putting forth will bring in new subscriptions or retain existing ones. CCP is not going to spend a dime developing a release that contains just a single room so a scant few players can meet there and be seen posing for each other. It matters not how much money you claim to throw at SC or any other game, this is unlikely to change for a long time.
Denial is not a river in Africa.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20769
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 14:39:00 -
[1579] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Denial is not a river in Africa. Didn't hear that one in while. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
270
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 14:49:00 -
[1580] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Doc Fury wrote:You will excuse me if I don't hold my breath, I'm already playing the best game out there today. Them I'm certain you will excuse us, if we think CCP could still aim higher, no? Sure, but you are aiming at the wrong stuff. CCP isn't working on WIS, they shelved it and dissolved Team Avatar to focus on the things that make CCP money today. Nothing realistic you guys are putting forth will bring in new subscriptions or retain existing ones. CCP is not going to spend a dime developing a release that contains just a single room so a scant few players can meet there and be seen posing for each other. It matters not how much money you claim to throw at SC or any other game, this is unlikely to change for a long time. Denial is not a river in Africa.
Yeah they will not make WIS, because they (not me) have already DUST. I mean Fighting On Planets, and we will see where else.. New CQ prototype |
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
74
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:13:00 -
[1581] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Doc Fury wrote:You will excuse me if I don't hold my breath, I'm already playing the best game out there today. Them I'm certain you will excuse us, if we think CCP could still aim higher, no? Sure, but you are aiming at the wrong stuff. CCP isn't working on WIS, they shelved it and dissolved Team Avatar to focus on the things that make CCP money today. Nothing realistic you guys are putting forth will bring in new subscriptions or retain existing ones. CCP is not going to spend a dime developing a release that contains just a single room so a scant few players can meet there and be seen posing for each other. It matters not how much money you claim to throw at SC or any other game, this is unlikely to change for a long time. Denial is not a river in Africa.
Right, denial is what you're doing with your posts here. You're obviously very confused about what Team Avatar has worked on before disbanding and what will be done with the exploration prototype in EVE. I suggest you read the original posts made by them again on the first pages of this thread. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3520
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:17:00 -
[1582] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Doc Fury wrote:You will excuse me if I don't hold my breath, I'm already playing the best game out there today. Them I'm certain you will excuse us, if we think CCP could still aim higher, no? Sure, but you are aiming at the wrong stuff. CCP isn't working on WIS, they shelved it and dissolved Team Avatar to focus on the things that make CCP money today. Nothing realistic you guys are putting forth will bring in new subscriptions or retain existing ones. CCP is not going to spend a dime developing a release that contains just a single room so a scant few players can meet there and be seen posing for each other. It matters not how much money you claim to throw at SC or any other game, this is unlikely to change for a long time. Denial is not a river in Africa. Right, denial is what you're doing with your posts here. You're obviously very confused about what Team Avatar has worked on before disbanding and what will be done with the exploration prototype in EVE. I suggest you read the original posts made by them again on the first pages of this thread.
Yeah, I'm the one here clamoring for iteration on a feature that has been shelved.
Surely you can do better than "no, you!" Maybe you can tell us how much $$ you have thrown at SC?
I'll be glad when more of you move on to the acceptance stage. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
76
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:21:00 -
[1583] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Yeah, I'm the one here clamoring for iteration on a feature that has been shelved. Surely you can do better than "no, you!" I'll be glad when more of you move on to the acceptance stage.
here i'll post it for you in case ur too lazy to search it:
CCP Unifex wrote: So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3520
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:24:00 -
[1584] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Yeah, I'm the one here clamoring for iteration on a feature that has been shelved. Surely you can do better than "no, you!" I'll be glad when more of you move on to the acceptance stage. here i'll post it for you in case ur too lazy to search it: CCP Unifex wrote: So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond.
So, what's your point?
They are still not working on it. They don't know when they will be working on it.
All you got is a "Coming SoonGäó" ?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20778
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:25:00 -
[1585] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:I'll be glad when more of you move on to the acceptance stage.
Great way to behave in a conversation... swinging between dismissive and condescending... really classy. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
76
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:26:00 -
[1586] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: So, what's your point?
They are still not working on it. They don't know when they will be working on it.
All you got is a "Coming SoonGäó" ?
I think you also missed the part when they said "the prototype is finished and was presented to the stakeholders". Go read CCP Bayesian's post too. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3520
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:30:00 -
[1587] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Doc Fury wrote: So, what's your point?
They are still not working on it. They don't know when they will be working on it.
All you got is a "Coming SoonGäó" ?
I think you also missed the part when they said "the prototype is finished and was presented to the stakeholders". Go read CCP Bayesian post too.
Yup, I missed the release date. What is it?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
76
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:33:00 -
[1588] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: Yup, I missed the release date. What is it?
That's a question you should direct to them or the new VP or EP. CCP Unifex's post clearly hinted that they will implement it after they're done working on the FiS which will probably be 2014. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
640
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:44:00 -
[1589] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Yeah they will not make WIS, because they (not me) have already DUST. I mean Fighting On Planets, and we will see where else..
The Dust client is developed using en external game engine (Unreal), so most of the client coding in Dust client is unrelated to Eve and/or WoD.
In addition to story/IP Dust shares art and part of the server integration with it's PC siblings.
And before anyone starts on that track, Valkyrie is also just sharing art, IP and possibly some server code with the rest of the family.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3520
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:49:00 -
[1590] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Doc Fury wrote: Yup, I missed the release date. What is it?
That's a question you should direct to them or the new VP or EP. CCP Unifex's post clearly hinted that they will implement it after they're done working on the FiS which will probably be 2014.
So, you have presented nothing to support your position but "hinted" and "probably".
As it stands today:
They are not working on it.
They don't know when they will be working on it (if ever). Protip: very much wanting to bring something out does not mean that something will ever be released or even further developed.
Even though CCP has stated there won't be any development in this space for a long time, people are still here clamoring they release "something" now or soon or EVE is doomed.
What else do you think I am "missing" that my own eyes are not revealing.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
77
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 15:54:00 -
[1591] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: So, you have presented nothing to support your position but "hinted" and "probably".
As it stands today:
They are not working on it.
They don't know when they will be working on it (if ever). Protip: very much wanting to bring something out does not mean that something will ever be released or even further developed.
Even though CCP has stated there won't be any development in this space for a long time, people are still here clamoring they release "something" now or soon or EVE is doomed.
What else do you think I am "missing" that my own eyes are not revealing.
guess we'll just have to wait to find out eh brah? |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3520
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 16:05:00 -
[1592] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Doc Fury wrote: So, you have presented nothing to support your position but "hinted" and "probably".
As it stands today:
They are not working on it.
They don't know when they will be working on it (if ever). Protip: very much wanting to bring something out does not mean that something will ever be released or even further developed.
Even though CCP has stated there won't be any development in this space for a long time, people are still here clamoring they release "something" now or soon or EVE is doomed.
What else do you think I am "missing" that my own eyes are not revealing.
you're missing the whole point of the exploration prototype, and the kind of content it can bring to EVE
So you got see and play it? How was that? Got a link to a video of that demo?
I got nothing against additional meaningful game play options. What I have a problem with is all the denial that none of this is happening soon, the tiresome insistence that CCP release "something" now, and the continued proselytizing of the demise of EVE if that does not occur on an unrealistic timetable. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 16:27:00 -
[1593] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:
I got nothing against additional meaningful game play options. What I have a problem with is all the denial that none of this is happening soon, the tiresome insistence that CCP release "something" now, and the continued proselytizing of the demise of EVE if that does not occur on an unrealistic timetable.
I speak for myself here ,the only thing i would want is to bring back that small team of devs called Team Avatar. I am not demanding WIS right now .
What i want is some dev time on an EVE feature for a change ,that happens to be WIS. Instead just another out of EvE game And people can say Dust is another game engine and Valkerie is sharing art ,they pull way more dev time from EvE ,than that 5 men dev team called Team Avatar ever could do.
Edit : and show us this time ,what they were doing just before they were disbanded R.S.I2014
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
77
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 16:39:00 -
[1594] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote: The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=161511
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
270
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 16:45:00 -
[1595] - Quote
But they are separate games, and the purpose was to broaden the playerbase and incoming money. Question is now, in what direction DUST will go. WIll it have PC client and more enviroments and shared points with EvE or will it become PS3 exclusive for all times? Clear point is that DUST have meaningful avatar gamepley, I dont like that you cant do the avatar look like in eve online, but they achieved something and are patching the game. New CQ prototype |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
641
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 16:47:00 -
[1596] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: And people can say Dust is another game engine and Valkerie is sharing art ,they pull way more dev time from EvE ,than that 5 men dev team called Team Avatar ever could do.
Edit : and show us this time ,what they were doing just before they were disbanded
A five dev team would have to work for a long time before they could bring anything that would be useful in EvE or any other non-alpha game.
The demo that Team Avatar created was a mock-up (in Unity I think) and it was just a proof of concept of something that could become an addition to Eve when the support for avatar based game play is provided.
Putting a small team of devs on upgrading the current avatar engine in Eve would both be futile and totally stupid since it would duplicate the work that their colleges in Georgia are already doing.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
78
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 17:00:00 -
[1597] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:The demo that Team Avatar created was a mock-up (in Unity I think) and it was just a proof of concept of something that could become an addition to Eve when the support for avatar based game play is provided. Putting a small team of devs on upgrading the current avatar engine in Eve would both be futile and totally stupid since it would duplicate the work that their colleges in Georgia are already doing.
Personally I prefer to stick to real information provided by CCP staff than to some half baked notions and speculation of what their work is/was/should be
CCP Bayesian wrote: The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=161511 |
Phaade
Debitum Naturae
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 17:44:00 -
[1598] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:raven666wings wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Doc Fury wrote:You will excuse me if I don't hold my breath, I'm already playing the best game out there today. Them I'm certain you will excuse us, if we think CCP could still aim higher, no? Sure, but you are aiming at the wrong stuff. CCP isn't working on WIS, they shelved it and dissolved Team Avatar to focus on the things that make CCP money today. Nothing realistic you guys are putting forth will bring in new subscriptions or retain existing ones. CCP is not going to spend a dime developing a release that contains just a single room so a scant few players can meet there and be seen posing for each other. It matters not how much money you claim to throw at SC or any other game, this is unlikely to change for a long time. Denial is not a river in Africa. Right, denial is what you're doing with your posts here. You're obviously very confused about what Team Avatar has worked on before disbanding and what will be done with the exploration prototype in EVE. I suggest you read the original posts made by them again on the first pages of this thread. Yeah, I'm the one here clamoring for iteration on a feature that has been shelved. Surely you can do better than "no, you!" Maybe you can tell us how much $$ you have thrown at SC? I'll be glad when more of you move on to the acceptance stage.
Lol, what the **** is this guy talking about?
Doc, you're off your rocker man. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3524
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 17:53:00 -
[1599] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:The demo that Team Avatar created was a mock-up (in Unity I think) and it was just a proof of concept of something that could become an addition to Eve when the support for avatar based game play is provided. Putting a small team of devs on upgrading the current avatar engine in Eve would both be futile and totally stupid since it would duplicate the work that their colleges in Georgia are already doing. Personally I prefer to stick to real information provided by CCP staff than to some half baked notions and speculation of what their work is/was/should be CCP Bayesian wrote: The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=161511
So, where's the demo video we can see, and where is the commitment from CCP that this feature/game play will in fact be developed and implemented? That second part is very important.
Personally I prefer to stick with things I can see with my eyes, than to defer to your emotional enthusiasm to read-in that because CCP has successfully produced a simple proof of concept, it somehow means we are going to get anything like that, or at all.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
203
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:01:00 -
[1600] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Color me more than a little skeptical. The article is tiny, doesn't provide any sort of source and just states "we have learned" not "we have learned from CCP" or any other sort of attribution. It makes it sound like a printed finale to a game of "he said that she said" from someone who knows very little about game development. |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1826
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:02:00 -
[1601] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Doc Fury wrote:I'll be glad when more of you move on to the acceptance stage. Great way to behave in a discussion... swinging between dismissive and condescending... really classy.
We blocked troll #1, here comes troll #2. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20799
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:08:00 -
[1602] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:We blocked troll #1, here comes troll #2. Seams like it... as much as I hate it... but if all we get as a counter argument is: You are in denial...
...especially if you consider that this thread wasn't a discussion in the first place. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
537
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:10:00 -
[1603] - Quote
Ok, so spare me the 78 pages of reading: where is Eve at with more ambulation/WiS? I don't think many players would object to more WiS environments and feature iteration, as long as they weren't forced into it like the original CQ disaster. Think of it more like Eve's Industry or Exploration careers. Not required, but certainly something alive, well and iterated upon. Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20799
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:12:00 -
[1604] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:Think of it more like Eve's Industry or Exploration careers. Not required, but certainly something alive, well and iterated upon. Absolutely... it's all about choice... never would object to that. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3526
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:18:00 -
[1605] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:We blocked troll #1, here comes troll #2. Seams like it... as much as I hate it... but if all we get as a counter argument is: You are in denial... ...especially if you consider that this thread wasn't a discussion in the first place.
It wasn't a counter argument, it was an accurate observation of the behavior of many players in this thread.
The "argument" was removed when I was selectively quoted out of context.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
78
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:23:00 -
[1606] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: So, where's the demo video we can see, and where is the commitment from CCP that this feature/game play will in fact be developed and implemented? That second part is very important.
Personally I prefer to stick with things I can see with my eyes, than to defer to your emotional enthusiasm to read-in that because CCP has successfully produced a simple proof of concept, it somehow means we are going to get anything like that, or at all.
It doesn't mean you will get it for certain... they could just trash it (and they probably would if guys like you were in charge or had a vote in the matter). What it means is that there is a strong possibility you will get it, regardless of how much you whiners keep nay saying in this thread. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20799
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:28:00 -
[1607] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:It doesn't mean you will get it for certain... they could just trash it (and they probably would if guys like you were in charge or had a vote in the matter). What it means is that there is a strong possibility you will get it, regardless of how much you whiners keep nay saying in this thread.
Exactly, but what I DON'T think is, that CCP will throw it out there before the core game isn't balanced to their liking (plans)... they made that mistake once, they will not make it again... I hope. Agh... we gotta wait for next Fanfest to really have the chance to know more... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
646
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 20:40:00 -
[1608] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:The demo that Team Avatar created was a mock-up (in Unity I think) and it was just a proof of concept of something that could become an addition to Eve when the support for avatar based game play is provided. Putting a small team of devs on upgrading the current avatar engine in Eve would both be futile and totally stupid since it would duplicate the work that their colleges in Georgia are already doing. Personally I prefer to stick to real information provided by CCP staff than to some half baked notions and speculation of what their work is/was/should be Your choice.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1827
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 22:25:00 -
[1609] - Quote
Meanwhile, in Mittani land...
http://themittani.com/features/dancing-third-rail-eve-microtransactions
A must-read article by Alizabeth, presenting the case for microtransactions in general and vanity items specifically, including avatar-related ones. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20803
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 22:38:00 -
[1610] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:A must-read article by Alizabeth, presenting the case for microtransactions in general and vanity items specifically, including avatar-related ones.
"must-read" indeed, thanks Ish... summarizes very good all the arguments we brought up here.
"The future is coming and CCP needs to adapt to the changing business model." ...times have changed a lot since 2011 and they should adapt. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
194
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 04:57:00 -
[1611] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:Ok, so spare me the 78 pages of reading: where is Eve at with more ambulation/WiS? I don't think many players would object to more WiS environments and feature iteration, as long as they weren't forced into it like the original CQ disaster. Think of it more like Eve's Industry or Exploration careers. Not required, but certainly something alive, well and iterated upon.
The short version is that CCP ignored Eve for two years to work on WiS. When it launched it was a massive failure and the playerbase rioted and the game lost more subs than at any other time in its history. CCP apologized for the wasted development time and promised to refocus on real Eve gameplay: spaceships and the industry that supports them. Ever since that time the game has grown steadily every quarter.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
204
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 05:11:00 -
[1612] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:A must-read article by Alizabeth, presenting the case for microtransactions in general and vanity items specifically, including avatar-related ones. "must-read" indeed, thanks Ish... summarizes very good all the arguments we brought up here. "The future is coming and CCP needs to adapt to the changing business model." ...times have changed a lot since 2011 and they should adapt.
And yet WoW is still subscription based, and Eve has been going along just fine on subscriptions and PLEX sales for quite some time now. Color me somewhat skeptical that we'll see Eve transition to F2P any time soon. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
194
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 05:25:00 -
[1613] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:A must-read article by Alizabeth, presenting the case for microtransactions in general and vanity items specifically, including avatar-related ones. "must-read" indeed, thanks Ish... summarizes very good all the arguments we brought up here. "The future is coming and CCP needs to adapt to the changing business model." ...times have changed a lot since 2011 and they should adapt.
Not every game works under a F2P model. Eve certainly wouldn't work if people could have unlimited alts for zero cost.
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 06:37:00 -
[1614] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:raven666wings wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:The demo that Team Avatar created was a mock-up (in Unity I think) and it was just a proof of concept of something that could become an addition to Eve when the support for avatar based game play is provided. Putting a small team of devs on upgrading the current avatar engine in Eve would both be futile and totally stupid since it would duplicate the work that their colleges in Georgia are already doing. Personally I prefer to stick to real information provided by CCP staff than to some half baked notions and speculation of what their work is/was/should be CCP Bayesian wrote: The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=161511 So, where's the demo video we can see, and where is the commitment from CCP that this feature/game play will in fact be developed and implemented? That second part is very important. Personally I prefer to stick with things I can see with my eyes, than to defer to your emotional enthusiasm to read-in that because CCP has successfully produced a simple proof of concept, it somehow means we are going to get anything like that, or at all. Well ,they promised a couple of times to show us that protoype . It was said that it was shown at Fanfest,but it was not allowed.
But if they did ,maybe this discussion would go in another direction.
But hey that is only my opinion ,i can,t speak for all of EvE R.S.I2014
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20810
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 06:56:00 -
[1615] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:And yet WoW is still subscription based, and Eve has been going along just fine on subscriptions and PLEX sales for quite some time now. Color me somewhat skeptical that we'll see Eve transition to F2P any time soon.
Well, WoW will not be subscription based forever, and you already can play the base game up to lvl 20 for free, Even though many games start out with a p2p model, almost all of them changed it withing the last couple of years/one or two years after release... same will be true for ESO, the only other subscription based MMO to come out in the next years.
It has become common practice these days to start off p2p, keep it that way for the first 6 months to a year, then - when subs start to drop - transition to another payment model and have a "second coming".
I'm not saying EVE should go entirely f2p, though... there are many other options: Reduced subscription fees for multi account users, reduced costs for people that only keep their accounts to skill, but hardly ever play, etc. A flexible p2p model, backed up by an expanded NeX store... that would be a good concept. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Jim Era
7528
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 06:59:00 -
[1616] - Quote
EVE Should stay pay to play, Free to play games is like an escort lowering to status of hooker.
EVE is much more beautiful and deserves much more than that, she calls the shots, not you.
Shalua, you are no longer my friend. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20811
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 07:07:00 -
[1617] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:Shalua, you are no longer my friend.
Aw...
Read my last paragraph... I agree, EVE is different, and it shouldn't go entirely f2p, but there should be a change in business model... it would benefit the game, and in the long run, the players too. Being the most expensive MMO out there AND having one of the most expensive mta-store is unwise. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
271
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 08:03:00 -
[1618] - Quote
For now 10 years EVE with p2p model with this playerbase is doing ok. I don't see f2p model forced down on us in near future.
And somehow i am not afraid about the future of eve, will it be f2p or p2p. New CQ prototype |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20812
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 08:07:00 -
[1619] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:And somehow i am not afraid about the future of eve, will it be f2p or p2p. I'm not either... yet... but still: Why not think about it?
...still, that's not really the subject here, sorry. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1828
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 08:51:00 -
[1620] - Quote
I don't think that EVE should go F2P (in a game here multiboxing is becoming standard, go figure what could be done if accounts were factually free...).
Yet, MT are revenue boosters of the first degree -if implemented properly.
CPP did wrong everyhting that could be done wrong and managed to, in their own words, "shoot their own foot and their ass with one shot". They should leanr formt hat elsosn, elarn form idnsutry (what do consumers hate? EA's MT schemes, FAI? Then DON'T do that!)
Ego is a magnificent selling tool. Vanity tiems are in high demand everywhere in the industry, and they do well if correctly implemented. And if CCP is to keep developing magnificent failures like DUST, wild shots like Valkyrie and this little piece of old rehetaed porridge we happen to be hooked to, aka EVE, they better get more monies. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
204
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 10:46:00 -
[1621] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:I'm not saying EVE should go entirely f2p, though... there are many other options: Reduced subscription fees for multi account users, reduced costs for people that only keep their accounts to skill, but hardly ever play, etc. A flexible p2p model, backed up by an expanded NeX store... that would be a good concept.
You mean like a system that allows you to buy subscription time from other players for in-game currency? |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20817
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 10:59:00 -
[1622] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:You mean like a system that allows you to buy subscription time from other players for in-game currency? Smarta**.
No I meant reducing costs for multpile account users, or players that don't actually play, just skill, of which there are many...
Think about it... right now, many people who only have one account don't take a second one because it just isn't worth it to them. Now, if your primary and secondary account would only cost 9,99, and not 14.99, what do you think how many of those "single account players" would consider picking up a second account? i know I would...
Or, how about: You could put one of your accounts to "rest" for a month, reducing costs by 50%, but still allowing you to queue and change skills? Nothing more, only that... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
204
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 11:25:00 -
[1623] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:You mean like a system that allows you to buy subscription time from other players for in-game currency? Smarta**. No I meant reducing costs for multpile account users, or players that don't actually play, just skill, of which there are many... Think about it... right now, many people who only have one account don't take a second one because it just isn't worth it to them. Now, if your primary and secondary account would only cost 9,99, and not 14.99, what do you think how many of those "single account players" would consider picking up a second account? i know I would... Or, how about: You could put one of your accounts to "rest" for a month, reducing costs by 50%, but still allowing you to queue and change skills? Nothing more, only that...
Yup
And I think that would be a rather large boost to the character marketplace and I'm not sure how I feel about that
Probably trending toward a negative though. Stuff like PLEX for a training slot is on the right track though, it just needs some convenience overhauls like being able to dump multiple PLEX into it at once and a few other things.
Overall though Eve isn't in a position where it needs to be seriously looking at a free to play model. Its subscriptions are growing and opening the doors to free to play would cause all sorts of havoc with free alt accounts, as several people have pointed out.
Generally Free 2 Play is something you do so your paying customers have more people to play with and so you can build a healthy base of people and then pry open their wallets a little. So far CCP doesn't have this problem. Eve is a well established game with a healthy player-base that hasn't shrunk significantly since the game launched and its not under serious crowding pressure from similar games. So far every other Sci-Fi space MMO that's gone for a broader appeal or a F2P business model has kind of crashed and burned.
That said it'll be interesting to see what happens with things like Star Citizen, not really expecting it to kill Eve though. |
Gaellia Bonaventure
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1555
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 14:23:00 -
[1624] - Quote
CCP Unifex wrote: So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. .
LOL, oh, my sides. Typical CCP. Bring your possibles. |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 14:23:00 -
[1625] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:For now 10 years EVE with p2p model with this playerbase is doing ok. I don't see f2p model forced down on us in near future. And somehow i am not afraid about the future of eve, will it be f2p or p2p. I don't think Eve needs to have its model changed to f2p. I rather think it has to stay p2p. Eve has been p2p for too long to switch now.
I think main concern about switching to f2p is that no matter what - some nex items will end up being pay2win. There are some f2p games that are less pay2win so to speak, but in the end it's "pay2win" anyway.
What Eve really needs is some microtransaction boost for its further development. People who keep screaming WiS as concept should die are practically demanding that CCP scrap all the work done in those "2 years that they ignored real Eve." I think this player base could be more supportive. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
83
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 15:52:00 -
[1626] - Quote
Rhes wrote: After what happened when Incarna was released if there are people at CCP who think EvE should be about anything other than spaceships and the industry that supports them those people should be fired.
Your impaired speech seems to have improved in the last couple of weeks, you seem to be finally and slowly starting to acknowledge that balances and reworking of old mechanics are needed
Rhes wrote: The short version is that CCP ignored Eve for two years to work on WiS. When it launched it was a massive failure and the playerbase rioted and the game lost more subs than at any other time in its history. CCP apologized for the wasted development time and promised to refocus on real Eve gameplay: spaceships and the industry that supports them. Ever since that time the game has grown steadily every quarter.
but so are "expansions" with graphic improvements, content and gameplay features. The word "furries" also seems to not be present in your lines so often.
I think the medication I prescribed you is finally kicking in and showing some good results. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
199
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 17:11:00 -
[1627] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: After what happened when Incarna was released if there are people at CCP who think EvE should be about anything other than spaceships and the industry that supports them those people should be fired.
Your impaired speech seems to have improved in the last couple of weeks, you seem to be finally and slowly starting to acknowledge that balances and reworking of old mechanics are needed Rhes wrote: The short version is that CCP ignored Eve for two years to work on WiS. When it launched it was a massive failure and the playerbase rioted and the game lost more subs than at any other time in its history. CCP apologized for the wasted development time and promised to refocus on real Eve gameplay: spaceships and the industry that supports them. Ever since that time the game has grown steadily every quarter.
but so are "expansions" with graphic improvements, content and gameplay features. The word "furries" also seems to not be present in your lines so often. I think the medication I prescribed you is finally kicking in and showing some good results.
It's amazing how you WiS "enthusiasts" are unable to make your points without baseless personal attacks. It's almost like you think the ToS doesn't apply to you.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
199
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 17:12:00 -
[1628] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:People who keep screaming WiS as concept should die are practically demanding that CCP scrap all the work done in those "2 years that they ignored real Eve." I think this player base could be more supportive.
They have already scrapped it and the game is healthier for it.
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
638
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 18:45:00 -
[1629] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:People who keep screaming WiS as concept should die are practically demanding that CCP scrap all the work done in those "2 years that they ignored real Eve." I think this player base could be more supportive. They have already scrapped it and the game is healthier for it.
Like i say before i will see you on the press event 2014 o wait you don't go you have no f*cking clue what is happening you are just a hate dude. That want to get your will of proof. Its like believing,, you believe your own sh*t if you continue like this.
Some people are just haters afraid of change. God I want to see your face when to open that door in 2014. Just please make a youtube with hate and then the open the doors. Jesus I know you will get millions of views just to see your reaction in 2014.
next time waffle go to some press release next time to see what I mean. Yes I was there and yes I talk and yes the showed some off screen stuff. That's not find able on youtube. If I have proof no. Do I speak 100% true? that will be found out in 2014 do we!
And about the release of incarnia yes I was there the fact the where angry about is the had it coming not about the WiS project but about the fact the take age to do something and broke allot of promises do you even know what promises no you don't because you have no f*cking clue what I`m talking about. And the have mixs the sh*t up. So I proof again you`re wrong. Stop hating dude it will not help the fact is you want answers go talk not hating this will not get you any answers.
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1813
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 19:15:00 -
[1630] - Quote
This is now officially the most viewed non-stickied thread on the Eve forums. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1831
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 19:20:00 -
[1631] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:This is now officially the most viewed non-stickied thread on the Eve forums.
The old WiS thread was the largest threadnaught at GD in its time, barring Mittens mishap's threadnaught.
Even the pesimistic ones like me, still keep our interest. I would so much love to be wrong about so many things concerning EVE... my nickname of "Hallellujah plan" for CCP Seagull's 3 year plan is not just sarcastic. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1123
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 19:25:00 -
[1632] - Quote
I read it to laugh at all the terrible reasoning and circlejerking, for example the belief that threadviews somehow indicate support for some amorphous and unidentifiable illusory common desire that the thread in question is purported to espouse. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1813
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 19:31:00 -
[1633] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:the belief that threadviews somehow indicate support
Hey, you said it, not me.
Sure, it doesn't. It does indicate that more people want to read the thread more often than the others though. Make of that what you will. I've given up arguing with the likes of you. I just made a java program to systematically check the highest views on the forum for non-stickied threads and wanted to share the results. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1123
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 19:33:00 -
[1634] - Quote
mmmhmmmmm Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
83
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 20:42:00 -
[1635] - Quote
Rhes wrote: It's amazing how you WiS "enthusiasts" are unable to make your points without baseless personal attacks. It's almost like you think the ToS doesn't apply to you.
Rhes wrote: They have already scrapped it and the game is healthier for it.
Relapsing... I might have to increase the dosage. Dont fight back, i'm here to help you. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1050
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 20:42:00 -
[1636] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Rhes wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:People who keep screaming WiS as concept should die are practically demanding that CCP scrap all the work done in those "2 years that they ignored real Eve." I think this player base could be more supportive. They have already scrapped it and the game is healthier for it. Like i say before i will see you on the press event 2014 o wait you don't go you have no f*cking clue what is happening you are just a hate dude. That want to get your will of proof. Its like believing,, you believe your own sh*t if you continue like this. Some people are just haters afraid of change. God I want to see your face when to open that door in 2014. Just please make a youtube with hate and then the open the doors. Jesus I know you will get millions of views just to see your reaction in 2014. next time waffle go to some press release next time to see what I mean. Yes I was there and yes I talk and yes the showed some off screen stuff. That's not find able on youtube. If I have proof no. Do I speak 100% true? that will be found out in 2014 do we! And about the release of incarnia yes I was there the fact the where angry about is the had it coming not about the WiS project but about the fact the take age to do something and broke allot of promises do you even know what promises no you don't because you have no f*cking clue what I`m talking about. And the have mixs the sh*t up. So I proof again you`re wrong. Stop hating dude it will not help the fact is you want answers go talk not hating this will not get you any answers. Don,t get me wrong ,i am one of those WIS lovers ,but 2014 ?
R.S.I2014
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1052
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 20:44:00 -
[1637] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: It's amazing how you WiS "enthusiasts" are unable to make your points without baseless personal attacks. It's almost like you think the ToS doesn't apply to you.
Rhes wrote: They have already scrapped it and the game is healthier for it.
Relapsing... I might have to increase the dosage. Dont fight back, i'm here to help you.
Rhes is still here ? pls don,t overdose him . he is the one with the furry heart R.S.I2014
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
692
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 20:45:00 -
[1638] - Quote
My predicition for the next expansion. There will be avatars content. If only so we can enjoy watching the trolls scream and nash their teeth.
Funny how easily threatened some players are.
CCP has said there will be meaningful avatar gameplay, it's just a matter of timing and implementation. So the trolls have lost. There will be new avatar gameplay that will be introduced in such a way that it does not come at the cost of the rest of the game.
Honestly this thread reminds me of some of the complaints made about the trinity expansion "OMG new graphics are a waste of developer time". And about the weapon animations "OMG turret animations isn't new gameplay". I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1052
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 20:50:00 -
[1639] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:My predicition for the next expansion. There will be avatars content. If only so we can enjoy watching the trolls scream and nash their teeth.
Funny how easily threatened some players are.
CCP has said there will be meaningful avatar gameplay, it's just a matter of timing and implementation. So the trolls have lost. There will be new avatar gameplay that will be introduced in such a way that it does not come at the cost of the rest of the game.
Honestly this thread reminds me of some of the complaints made about the trinity expansion "OMG new graphics are a waste of developer time". And about the weapon animations "OMG turret animations isn't new gameplay".
WIS is used as an excuse not to expand on EvE a bit to long to compare it with some animation stuff But the funny thing is new graphics and animations are results of the so called 2 year neglecting of EvE and as a byproduct there was that 1 disappointing room R.S.I2014
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
200
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 20:56:00 -
[1640] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Don,t get me wrong ,i am one of those WIS lovers ,but 2014 ?
2014 seems wildly optimistic.
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:WIS is used as an excuse not to expand on EvE a bit to long to compare it with some animation stuff But the funny thing is new graphics and animations are results of the so called 2 year neglecting of EvE and as a byproduct there was that 1 disappointing room
What are you talking about? Eve is constantly expanding. |
|
Lipbite
Express Hauler
794
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 21:40:00 -
[1641] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Eve is constantly expanding.
Yeah, we are getting whole 0 new star systems every year for 3 (5?) years in a row! |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
201
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 00:35:00 -
[1642] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Rhes wrote:Eve is constantly expanding. Yeah, we are getting whole 0 new star systems every year for 3 (5?) years in a row!
The second to last thing Eve needs is more systems (the last thing it needs is WiS). But the game has been expanding with new players and new content quite nicely now ever since Incarna exploded.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
204
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 02:30:00 -
[1643] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Lipbite wrote:Rhes wrote:Eve is constantly expanding. Yeah, we are getting whole 0 new star systems every year for 3 (5?) years in a row! The second to last thing Eve needs is more systems (the last thing it needs is WiS). But the game has been expanding with new players and new content quite nicely ever since Incarna exploded.
And if the game gets to a point where in-space features are at a good spot then it would probably benefit from more WiS features. I've talked to a fairly wide swath of new players as well as those who tried the game and didn't stay with it. One of the things that stuck with me was how much pretty much everyone seems to enjoy the character creator and how disappointed many are that all they can do with said character is walk around a single room.
There's no shortage of ideas from the player-base for things they'd like to see added to WiS, starting with opening that blasted door.
Why you're so vehemently and reflexively against it I have no idea. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1132
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 02:40:00 -
[1644] - Quote
Given an otherwise healthy spaceship game, I would have no problem with an effective and measured use of resources assigned to developing avatar gameplay. The qualification to the initial qualification being that an otherwise healthy spaceship game does not exist even on the pipe-dream horizon, making these discussions about avatar gameplay suitable only for comedy relief. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
202
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 03:10:00 -
[1645] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:There's no shortage of ideas from the player-base for things they'd like to see added to WiS, starting with opening that blasted door.
That's part of the problem considering most of the ideas are horrible. Roleplayers are just awful people and once they get entrenched in a game it's very difficult to get them out and while they are there they just ruin the community. |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 03:24:00 -
[1646] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Why you're so vehemently and reflexively against it I have no idea.
I think i know. C'mon Rhes, reveal your inner beast |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1052
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 03:32:00 -
[1647] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: Why you're so vehemently and reflexively against it I have no idea.
I think i know. C'mon Rhes, reveal your inner beast lol
R.S.I2014
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
693
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 03:53:00 -
[1648] - Quote
EVE hasn't expanded at all in the last two years. They've been focusing on the core game is all. Which is fine.
Personally I think the interest in WiS stems from the fact that all EVE players are explorers at heart, and stations and derelicts are a frontier that we have so far been unable to access.
Soon that door will open. But there had better be something interesting to do on the other side. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
204
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 07:04:00 -
[1649] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:There's no shortage of ideas from the player-base for things they'd like to see added to WiS, starting with opening that blasted door. That's part of the problem considering most of the ideas are horrible. Roleplayers are just awful people and once they get entrenched in a game it's very difficult to get them out and while they are there they just ruin the community.
Take a look at Features and Ideas Discussion. Most of the ideas for in-space stuff are horrible too. But between the ideas we've seen from CCP and some of the actually good ideas suggested by the player-base there's enough to make WiS a fun and engaging part of the Eve experience.
Varius Xeral wrote:Given an otherwise healthy spaceship game, I would have no problem with an effective and measured use of resources assigned to developing avatar gameplay. The qualification to the initial qualification being that an otherwise healthy spaceship game does not exist even on the pipe-dream horizon, making these discussions about avatar gameplay suitable only for comedy relief.
I dunno about that. the ship balancing is going along nicely and depending on what we get in Winter it should be heading into the prickly realm of Capital Ships and T3s early next year.
Along with Capitals we're likely to see the next and hopefully final (at least for a good few years) iteration on Sov mechanics. Once that's done with what's left? Incursions are in a pretty good state, Faction Warfare could use another pass for balance and polish but it's no where near the massive overhaul needed for Sov. Along with Sov will probably come the start of the long-awaited POS overhaul.
Unless I'm missing something I think that covers all of the high level issues and puts us somewhere around next winter (end of 2014/start of 2015).
At that point we should have very healthy in-space gameplay. Maybe not from everyone's point of view but at least from the view point of the majority.
Given this time-table I wouldn't mind seeing the start of planning for the next Summer expansion include a team for WiS stuff. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20844
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 07:25:00 -
[1650] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:The qualification to the initial qualification being that an otherwise healthy spaceship game does not exist even on the pipe-dream horizon, making these discussions about avatar gameplay suitable only for comedy relief. Not quite... sure, not everything in EVE is working perfectly now, but it's working a whole lot better then it had when Incarna hit. Almsot all ships have been revisited/purpoused and balanced, almost all core mechanics have been reworked, the UI has been upgraded, V3, etc. EVE was not expanded, true, but it got a pretty complete makeover.
So, yea, I think that the "right time" for an "avatar centered" expansion isn't to far away... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1844
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 07:40:00 -
[1651] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: Why you're so vehemently and reflexively against it I have no idea.
I think i know. C'mon Rhes, reveal your inner beast lol
The more the furrier! The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1844
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 07:56:00 -
[1652] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:EVE hasn't expanded at all in the last two years. They've been focusing on the core game is all. Which is fine.
Personally I think the interest in WiS stems from the fact that all EVE players are explorers at heart, and stations and derelicts are a frontier that we have so far been unable to access.
Soon that door will open. But there had better be something interesting to do on the other side.
Well, EVE is a terrible place for exploration and sightseeing, unless you do it on Sisi. I enjoy seeing stuff, but not enough as to risk wasting my time and assets outside of hisec. At Sisi, I've been to Old Man Star, the EVE gate and a few other interesting places, which in TQ would had cost me countless lives, ships and time... in case I din't grew sick of just trying to get there.
One of the ideas thrown by Team Avatar, was to have dynamically generated layouts. That would be necessary, provided the alleged amount of real estate in EVE (with your average station the size of Los Angeles and kilometer upon kilometer of floors....), and also could be fun. "Where is the ******* bar?" could be an intriguing question in itself... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
204
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 08:11:00 -
[1653] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Well, EVE is a terrible place for exploration and sightseeing, unless you do it on Sisi. I enjoy seeing stuff, but not enough as to risk wasting my time and assets outside of hisec. At Sisi, I've been to Old Man Star, the EVE gate and a few other interesting places, which in TQ would had cost me countless lives, ships and time... in case I din't grew sick of just trying to get there. One of the ideas thrown by Team Avatar, was to have dynamically generated layouts. That would be necessary, provided the alleged amount of real estate in EVE (with your average station the size of Los Angeles and kilometer upon kilometer of floors....), and also could be fun. "Where is the ******* bar?" could be an intriguing question in itself...
Somehow I doubt we'd see anything like this. More likely we'd either see a zones system like the original Guild Wars probably with different major areas like various bars, corp offices, ect sectioned off into their own areas that you take elevators or some other form of "not quite loading-bar" transportation to get to. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1846
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 09:13:00 -
[1654] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Well, EVE is a terrible place for exploration and sightseeing, unless you do it on Sisi. I enjoy seeing stuff, but not enough as to risk wasting my time and assets outside of hisec. At Sisi, I've been to Old Man Star, the EVE gate and a few other interesting places, which in TQ would had cost me countless lives, ships and time... in case I din't grew sick of just trying to get there. One of the ideas thrown by Team Avatar, was to have dynamically generated layouts. That would be necessary, provided the alleged amount of real estate in EVE (with your average station the size of Los Angeles and kilometer upon kilometer of floors....), and also could be fun. "Where is the ******* bar?" could be an intriguing question in itself... Somehow I doubt we'd see anything like this. More likely we'd either see a zones system like the original Guild Wars probably with different major areas like various bars, corp offices, ect sectioned off into their own areas that you take elevators or some other form of "not quite loading-bar" transportation to get to.
As for real estate, I already considered the question in one of my little stories at the Greater Fool Bar, and pictured the WiS-interactable zones as "docklands" around each docking point, and capsuleers never venturign any farther. A station could hold hurndeds of such "docklands" (as mcuha sit hodls hudnrds fo hangars), each one of them would be small enough to be interactable (i.e. hve short travel time) and yet large enoguh to convey the idea of being in a tiny quarter of a space city.
Such dockalnds could have a template (simutlaiton the station's main structurre) wiht randomizable spaces (shops) and then each shop be randomized. So in staiton A a NEx store is first and then comes a bar, whereas in staiton B the first shop is a weapons dealer and the next one it's a agent office. Plus, player owned shops could add customization and flavor at major hubs. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20846
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 10:00:00 -
[1655] - Quote
So, basically, what WiS would be: One "promenade" like corridor with numerous, interchangeable storefronts on one side, and an open view, either into the interior of the station or out into space, one the other. and that for every type of station. We would start of with a hand full of pre-generated decks, where the basic station services are located. They would be accessible from the get go, via elevator from the CQ. If somebody now rents an office or buys property, there would be added new decks as needed... sounds solid to me. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1847
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 11:10:00 -
[1656] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:So, basically, what WiS would be: One "promenade" like corridor with numerous, interchangeable storefronts on one side, and an open view, either into the interior of the station or out into space, one the other. and that for every type of station. We would start of with a hand full of pre-generated decks, where the basic station services are located. They would be accessible from the get go, via elevator from the CQ. If somebody now rents an office or buys property, there would be added new decks as needed... sounds solid to me.
Would it be meaningful? Not much more than ship spinning. But I would like to see one of such promenades at Jita. Or maybe...
...maybe shop owners would get a broker fee for every transaction made from their store? There would be a hard-coded minimum as currently, and then they would set it freely above that minimum. Owners with high reputation/high volume would be given NPC subsidies to every buy order they placed at the hub (so seller got the same money but it costed less to trader). A trader powerful enough could even "drag" a specialyzed hub behind him -forget Jita, the place to buy/sell armor modules is Shalua Rui's!
No, it would not be meaningful, in no way. Couldn't work at all... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
83
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 11:13:00 -
[1657] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:There's no shortage of ideas from the player-base for things they'd like to see added to WiS, starting with opening that blasted door. That's part of the problem considering most of the ideas are horrible. Roleplayers are just awful people and once they get entrenched in a game it's very difficult to get them out and while they are there they just ruin the community.
http://beta.euw.leagueoflegends.com/ ask to quit like your corpmates and go play with them. There's no roleplayers there. |
Liam Todd Bloodstar
Knights of the Black Watch
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 11:27:00 -
[1658] - Quote
Who necro'ed this garbage?
Does anyone remember this?
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/10/05/ccp-games-ceo-issues-letter-of-apology-to-eve-online-players/
CCP, stick to fixing the stuff you have in game or do this all over again.... Learn from your mistakes. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20846
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 11:33:00 -
[1659] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:http://beta.euw.leagueoflegends.com/ ask to quit like your corpmates and go play with them. There's no roleplayers there. I knew why I have Rhes' ramblings (possible trademark? you're welcome!) hidden...
I would provide relevant gameplay, very relevant... somebody remember STG und UO? People made furtunes running businesses and establishments in this games. Sure, first an foremost EVE is a spaceship game, but capsuleers are beings capable of many, many things, and not all of them have to be centered around spaceships. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
698
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 11:42:00 -
[1660] - Quote
Liam Todd Bloodstar wrote:
Because you obviously didn't read it
Quote:For the same reasons, IncarnaGÇöthe real one with actual meaningful gameplay in itGÇö will be a big step towards the future.
For an experience that relies so much on emergence and human interaction, itGÇÖs remarkable that itGÇÖs taken us this long to actually put a face on it. Once Incarna hits its stride, EVE will be more personal, and thus more accessible to general audiences.
Visual self-expression in a virtual setting is a core psychological component of gaming; most people need to see their avatars, or something vaguely humanoid, or else they donGÇÖt connect with the game. We were behind the curve and it needs to be addressed for the sake of EVEGÇÖs longevity.
We have the technology. Now we need time to add the content that will bring more meaning to the gameplayGÇöagain, without disrupting the space combat simulator that many of you are, or at least were, very much in love withGÇöand without delaying crucial improvements that this core experience desperately needs.
Meaningful avatar game play is coming. When resources permit and the game play promises to add to EVE it will arrive.
EVE has spent the last year and a bit getting itself into order, it's time to start expanding again. In all directions. Outwards into space, and inwards to it's interiors. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 11:51:00 -
[1661] - Quote
Liam Todd Bloodstar wrote:
Yes we remeber that, so does Hillmar and the new EA VP and EP. We all have a copy of it in the bathroom for 2 reasons: entertainment reading and emergency utility. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
206
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 11:56:00 -
[1662] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Liam Todd Bloodstar wrote: Yes we remeber that, so does Hillmar and the new EA VP and EP. We all have a copy of it in the bathroom for 2 reasons: entertainment reading and emergency utility.
Now we know what the Damage Control 2 runs on
Seriously though, no one "Necro'd" this thread, it's been going more or less steadily since it started. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1847
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 12:15:00 -
[1663] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:raven666wings wrote:Liam Todd Bloodstar wrote: Yes we remeber that, so does Hillmar and the new EA VP and EP. We all have a copy of it in the bathroom for 2 reasons: entertainment reading and emergency utility. Now we know what the Damage Control 2 runs on Seriously though, no one "Necro'd" this thread, it's been going more or less steadily since it started.
It never has fall back lower than page 3, which barely can be considered "necroing". The thread exists. The contributors exist. Trolls exist.
WiS is a featureless feature in need of CCP love. And we just keep bringing ideas, talking about our hopes (or lack of them) so WiS is beaten down but not forgotten. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1052
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 14:58:00 -
[1664] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:raven666wings wrote:Liam Todd Bloodstar wrote: Yes we remeber that, so does Hillmar and the new EA VP and EP. We all have a copy of it in the bathroom for 2 reasons: entertainment reading and emergency utility. Now we know what the Damage Control 2 runs on Seriously though, no one "Necro'd" this thread, it's been going more or less steadily since it started. It never has fall back lower than page 3, which barely can be considered "necroing". The thread exists. The contributors exist. Trolls exist. WiS is a featureless feature in need of CCP love. And we just keep bringing ideas, talking about our hopes (or lack of them) so WiS is beaten down but not forgotten.
CCP wants to forget i am afraid R.S.I2014
|
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 15:30:00 -
[1665] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:So, basically, what WiS would be: One "promenade" like corridor with numerous, interchangeable storefronts on one side, and an open view, either into the interior of the station or out into space, one the other. and that for every type of station. We would start of with a hand full of pre-generated decks, where the basic station services are located. They would be accessible from the get go, via elevator from the CQ. If somebody now rents an office or buys property, there would be added new decks as needed... sounds solid to me. So, nothing cold or harsh. Just a place you can walk around, RP and be seen. Maybe buy some stuff, but we can already do that now, and a lot more efficiently now.
If you start putting stuff out there that is more like Mos Eisley and less like Second Life you'll get more bites. But, I forget myself, a lot of you are expecting and advocating WIS to be a safe theme park as evidenced by the quote below.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I enjoy seeing stuff, but not enough as to risk wasting my time and assets outside of hisec. At Sisi, I've been to Old Man Star, the EVE gate and a few other interesting places, which in TQ would had cost me countless lives, ships and time... in case I din't grew sick of just trying to get there. I've got news for you, if you un-dock in this game you can be killed. if you want to explore you assume and prepare for that risk. EVE is not for the risk averse. I would expect the same risks to be ever present in WIS should you leave your CQ. Anyone arguing otherwise is advocating for theme-park play, and that is not EVE.
Do any of you honestly believe a large enough percentage of existing subscribers are going to welcome the diversion of CCPs resources again to develop WIS as a theme park? If so, what data from CCP can you provide to back that up? Look at the recent threadnaught re: the recent TOS change if you need an example to the contrary.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
183
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 15:37:00 -
[1666] - Quote
handbanana wrote:I forget myself, a lot of you are expecting and advocating WIS to be a safe theme park as evidenced by the quote below.
No, definitely not most. I would say that the people who want it to be safe are a vocal minority (or possibly just one or two people). I want Eve in Stations to be cold harsh, and as dangerous as space or worse. As for the people who do want it to be safe, well they want WiS anyway and would rather have a cold harsh one than none at all. Besides, CCP have already said that any Avatar game play will have to be in the true spirit of Eve. Even though the spirit of Eve is changing, I feel pretty safe in the knowledge that CCP will at least make sure that we can scam and kill each other or some such.
Well, not so sure now that Soundwave is gone, but never mind. |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 15:55:00 -
[1667] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Well, not so sure now that Soundwave is gone, but never mind.
...Dons shiny hat...
I have a feeling the new hires from EA are advocating furiously that CCP pursue the kiddie market, because there is a substantial amount of (their parents) money to be had. Thus some of the changes we are seeing. Kiddies are also less wise, and more apt to "get in line" and not protest or hold CCP hostage by withholding subscriptions. Hilmar wasn't so much sorry about what happened with Incarna, he was sorry he and his upper management underestimated their customers and that the customers prevailed.
Hubris is like a drug resistant disease, one dose of realization and humility does not often cure it. GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1852
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 15:55:00 -
[1668] - Quote
handbanana wrote:(...) Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I enjoy seeing stuff, but not enough as to risk wasting my time and assets outside of hisec. At Sisi, I've been to Old Man Star, the EVE gate and a few other interesting places, which in TQ would had cost me countless lives, ships and time... in case I din't grew sick of just trying to get there. I've got news for you, if you un-dock in this game you can be killed. if you want to explore you assume and prepare for that risk. EVE is not for the risk averse. I would expect the same risks to be ever present in WIS should you leave your CQ. Anyone arguing otherwise is advocating for theme-park play, and that is not EVE. Do any of you honestly believe a large enough percentage of existing subscribers are going to welcome the diversion of CCPs resources again to develop WIS as a theme park? If so, what data from CCP can you provide to back that up? Look at the recent threadnaught re: the recent TOS change if you need an example to the contrary.
So according to you, if ships don't asplode, it's not PvP? Market trading is not PvP? Industry is not PvP? Planetary interaction is not PvP? Mining is not PvP? Exploration is not PvP? Scamming is not PvP? Corporation theft is not PvP?
What game have you been playing, banana boy? League of Legends? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:01:00 -
[1669] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:handbanana wrote:(...) Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I enjoy seeing stuff, but not enough as to risk wasting my time and assets outside of hisec. At Sisi, I've been to Old Man Star, the EVE gate and a few other interesting places, which in TQ would had cost me countless lives, ships and time... in case I din't grew sick of just trying to get there. I've got news for you, if you un-dock in this game you can be killed. if you want to explore you assume and prepare for that risk. EVE is not for the risk averse. I would expect the same risks to be ever present in WIS should you leave your CQ. Anyone arguing otherwise is advocating for theme-park play, and that is not EVE. Do any of you honestly believe a large enough percentage of existing subscribers are going to welcome the diversion of CCPs resources again to develop WIS as a theme park? If so, what data from CCP can you provide to back that up? Look at the recent threadnaught re: the recent TOS change if you need an example to the contrary. So according to you, if ships don't asplode, it's not PvP? Market trading is not PvP? Industry is not PvP? Planetary interaction is not PvP? Mining is not PvP? Exploration is not PvP? Scamming is not PvP? Corporation theft is not PvP?
Where exactly did I say that?
Hint: I didn't. GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1852
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:04:00 -
[1670] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:handbanana wrote:I forget myself, a lot of you are expecting and advocating WIS to be a safe theme park as evidenced by the quote below.
No, definitely not most. I would say that the people who want it to be safe are a vocal minority (or possibly just one or two people). I want Eve in Stations to be cold harsh, and as dangerous as space or worse. As for the people who do want it to be safe, well they want WiS anyway and would rather have a cold harsh one than none at all. Besides, CCP have already said that any Avatar game play will have to be in the true spirit of Eve. Even though the spirit of Eve is changing, I feel pretty safe in the knowledge that CCP will at least make sure that we can scam and kill each other or some such. Well, not so sure now that Soundwave is gone, but never mind.
My definition of "cold, harsh" doesn't includes "I shot your face, then again, then again, then again, then again, and then again". EVE is full of wimps who rejoice in the abbiltiy to die endless times without consequence.
Frankly, provided that lore is very specific on capsuleers being permadead if they die outside of their pod, I would rather figure other ways to be "cold harsh" that didn't included death of you character and 1,000s of "miraculous" resurrections.
PvP is much more than "I shot your face". The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1852
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:04:00 -
[1671] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:handbanana wrote:(...) Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I enjoy seeing stuff, but not enough as to risk wasting my time and assets outside of hisec. At Sisi, I've been to Old Man Star, the EVE gate and a few other interesting places, which in TQ would had cost me countless lives, ships and time... in case I din't grew sick of just trying to get there. I've got news for you, if you un-dock in this game you can be killed. if you want to explore you assume and prepare for that risk. EVE is not for the risk averse. I would expect the same risks to be ever present in WIS should you leave your CQ. Anyone arguing otherwise is advocating for theme-park play, and that is not EVE. Do any of you honestly believe a large enough percentage of existing subscribers are going to welcome the diversion of CCPs resources again to develop WIS as a theme park? If so, what data from CCP can you provide to back that up? Look at the recent threadnaught re: the recent TOS change if you need an example to the contrary. So according to you, if ships don't asplode, it's not PvP? Market trading is not PvP? Industry is not PvP? Planetary interaction is not PvP? Mining is not PvP? Exploration is not PvP? Scamming is not PvP? Corporation theft is not PvP? Where exactly did I say that? Hint: I didn't.
And I requested a theme park where, banana boy?
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
183
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:07:00 -
[1672] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:PvP is much more than "I shot your face".
That's actually a pretty good point. Best PvP I ever did was had an alt invade a corp and start the fail cascade. There was a war involved at the time, but that was besides the point. It was the spy alt that killed the corp with a few discouraging words, rather than any ship or clone losses.
That said, if we get to walk in stations, I would like to shoot people in the face from time to time. |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:07:00 -
[1673] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:handbanana wrote:(...) Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I enjoy seeing stuff, but not enough as to risk wasting my time and assets outside of hisec. At Sisi, I've been to Old Man Star, the EVE gate and a few other interesting places, which in TQ would had cost me countless lives, ships and time... in case I din't grew sick of just trying to get there. I've got news for you, if you un-dock in this game you can be killed. if you want to explore you assume and prepare for that risk. EVE is not for the risk averse. I would expect the same risks to be ever present in WIS should you leave your CQ. Anyone arguing otherwise is advocating for theme-park play, and that is not EVE. Do any of you honestly believe a large enough percentage of existing subscribers are going to welcome the diversion of CCPs resources again to develop WIS as a theme park? If so, what data from CCP can you provide to back that up? Look at the recent threadnaught re: the recent TOS change if you need an example to the contrary. So according to you, if ships don't asplode, it's not PvP? Market trading is not PvP? Industry is not PvP? Planetary interaction is not PvP? Mining is not PvP? Exploration is not PvP? Scamming is not PvP? Corporation theft is not PvP? Where exactly did I say that? Hint: I didn't. And I requested a theme park where, banana boy?
Answer the question and then I'll answer yours.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
183
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:10:00 -
[1674] - Quote
handbanana wrote: Answer the question and then I'll answer yours.
Pointless argument. Ish clearly doesn't want risk free environments, just the same as you don't. You can stop now, or you can argue semantics until you both dead and it wont make any difference. No one wants risk averse game play, point taken. Move on. |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:12:00 -
[1675] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:handbanana wrote: Answer the question and then I'll answer yours.
Pointless argument. Ish clearly doesn't want risk free environments, just the same as you don't. You can both stop now, or you can argue semantics until your both dead and it wont make any difference. No one wants risk averse game play, point taken. Move on.
I'd rather she answered the question thanks.
No need to white night here.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
183
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:16:00 -
[1676] - Quote
handbanana wrote: I'd rather she answered the question thanks.
No need to white night here.
Okay, well... if you want to be petty then fine.
By the way, it's "white knight". (See what I did there?) |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:20:00 -
[1677] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:handbanana wrote: I'd rather she answered the question thanks.
No need to white night here.
Okay, well... if you want to be petty then fine. By the way, it's "white knight". (See what I did there?)
If by petty, you mean I want her to back up her BS and answer the question, then I am guilty of that..
And, yes, I am human and often create posts with typos in them, but thanks, I'll go fix it.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:28:00 -
[1678] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:CCP have already said that any Avatar game play will have to be in the true spirit of Eve. Avatar game play should be in spirit of Eve as a whole.
I'm sure most of us would rather see it this way. Carebears including. It would not make sense to dock in a lowsec station and have a Quafe at the same bar as any local while expecting nothing to happen. Sure, capsuleers could pay a fee for their protection if they take that option to open the door that separates their safe quarters from hostile station environment. It could be mercs/station security bots. Could be Concord security bots in highsec, which in case of wardec would "suddenly" decide not to interfere in capsuleer affairs, unless you pay extra fee. And so on and so forth.
I am sure many similar ideas were discussed by CCP design teams or suggested by players before. Problem is any extensive avatar gameplay would probably require as much resources (financial & dev team size wise) required as a separate game. What CCP should've done is work on WiS as a separate game instead of spending so much on DUST, which is not a good enough to compete in harsh FPS market.
WiS could be fully tied into exploration, which would involve exploration in first place and not a boring deus ex rip off minigame.
If WiS were implemented it should not hinder eve, rather should boost interaction between not only players but with the game client itself. That means there should be much better interface. CQ in current form doesn't provide that and it is one of many reasons most people prefer staying in ship hangar anyway.
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20849
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 16:47:00 -
[1679] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Do any of you honestly believe a large enough percentage of existing subscribers are going to welcome the diversion of CCPs resources again to develop WIS as a theme park? If so, what data from CCP can you provide to back that up? Look at the recent threadnaught re: the recent TOS change if you need an example to the contrary.
"Cold and harsh" has many faces, as does "PvP". One might argue that a trading deal or corporate espionage, all done entierly through dialogue, are just as much PvP. I'm not saying that avatar gameplay as a whole should be a "save" theme park... or a theme park at all, for that matter, since a "theme park" in MMO terms means: Everything is provided to the player by the game, and no emergent gameplay in possible... but I can't really imagine how station environments could be done with open, fire-at-will PvP in them... mostly because capsuleers that aren't hooket up to their pods are pretty much dead if killed, even though there would be a solution to that now: The recently discovered implants DUST mercs use.
...but I digress: To answer the question: I don't believe EVE could ever be a theme park MMO, nor do I believe it would function as one... That said: If players would be provided with said station environments where they could own property, emergent gameplay would happen, as it always does. It would be different, sure, but even without the ability to shoot others outright "in the face", it sitll wouldn't be risk free, since nothing in EVE ever truly is.
...and about the recent "threadnaught" ...you know as good as I do, that the same people ignited that, that always complain about every change to "their" game ...that's hardly an indication for how the community feels about it. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 17:23:00 -
[1680] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote: To answer the question: I don't believe EVE could ever be a theme park MMO, nor do I believe it would function as one... That said: If players would be provided with said station environments where they could own property, emergent gameplay would happen, as it always does. It would be different, sure, but even without the ability to shoot others outright "in the face", it sitll wouldn't be risk free, since nothing in EVE ever truly is.
That was not actually the question, I was referring to WIS specifically being (re)released as a theme park and/or with only theme park features, and not EVE becoming a theme park overall. Original point being, if you want to get more people on board with WIS development, start talking about the risks, rewards, and consequences, and not the potential for CQ decorum or theoretical MT revenue. The latter two do not seem to sell very well given the current player base. Emergent gameplay does not simply work itself out, well thought-out tools and resources need to be in place first.
I am also fully aware of forms of PVP other than shooty-in-face. WIS should provide all PVP types if possible, and CCP has made noises in that direction. So, whatever that still means 2 years from now.
Shalua Rui wrote: ...and about the recent "threadnaught" ...you know as good as I do, that the same people ignited that, that always complain about every change to "their" game ...that's hardly an indication for how the community feels about it.
Perhaps. That thread also illustrates perfectly how vocal and vehement players become when CCP messes with the cold/harsh sandbox aspect of EVE real, or perceived. That thread's 20-40 page predecessors had to be locked something like 2 or 3 times, and it's still going. Gaming news sites and popular player blogs are covering it. Glean from that whatever you will, a significant bit of the community is participating in the debate here and elsewhere regardless. GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 17:54:00 -
[1681] - Quote
^Another Greater Fool raging at ppl without even bothering to read the first pages of the thread.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=161511&p=2
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20849
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 18:02:00 -
[1682] - Quote
True... personally I don't really care about the ToS changes... not so much because they don't really concern me, but because I believe that they aren't nearly as dramatic as people think. Now, if you ask me if they are an indication that CCP is going in an undesirable direction with their game... I can't really speculate on that.
Back on topic: Ok then, let's brain-storm about the possible risk/reward concepts WiS could include... I mean, other then loosing money gambling.
Let's say, the concept of DUST inplants enables capsuleers to shoot each other, that would be the first, very obvious risk then... especially considering that low-sec stations and POS'es would have very light/bribable/biased scurity... high sec stations, on the other hand would be rather save places, maybe even prohibiting the use of weapons... at least openly. That gives us the risk for life and limb... and the reward? Well, the possibillity to loot gear and implants would be thinkable.
Another concept comes to mind when you think about the nature of hightech scifie... hacking.
It has been established that capsuleers are connected to Neocron non stop, even without them sitting in their capsules. Now, who is to say that, if one could get physically close to another, there wouldn't be the possibility to hack their uplinks (think Ghost in the Shell) for Information, ISK or even "loot"? That would open up a whole new level of gameplay... risk/reward level = unfathomable!
Sure, the clones capsuleers use would have to get a whole lot more sophisticated to make all that gameplay possible... weapons, gear, (non ship related) implants, physical stats and even skills would have to be implemented and balanced. Good thing that many of them could be taken from DUST... still, it would be a lot of work.
...alas, there you have it: Avatar centered gameplay with real meaning. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 18:07:00 -
[1683] - Quote
handbanana wrote: I have a feeling the new hires from EA are advocating furiously that CCP pursue the kiddie market, because there is a substantial amount of (their parents) money to be had. Thus some of the changes we are seeing. Kiddies are also less wise, and more apt to "get in line" and not protest or hold CCP hostage by withholding subscriptions. Hilmar wasn't so much sorry about what happened with Incarna, he was sorry he and his upper management underestimated their customers and that the customers prevailed.
CCP is not planning to target the "kiddie" market and their parent's credit cards, that's what childish and washed up fantasy MMORPG's like League of Legends do. Hillmar didn't underestimate his costumers. He overestimated them. He already knew they could throw tantrums. What he probably didn't know is that most of them don't actually buy any subs or PLEX, so it wasn't a reason to give much attention to it or lay off company staff as a result. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1853
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 19:57:00 -
[1684] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:True... personally I don't really care about the ToS changes... not so much because they don't really concern me, but because I believe that they aren't nearly as dramatic as people think. Now, if you ask me if they are an indication that CCP is going in an undesirable direction with their game... I can't really speculate on that. Back on topic: Ok then, let's brain-storm about the possible risk/reward concepts WiS could include... I mean, other then loosing money gambling. Let's say, the concept of DUST inplants enables capsuleers to shoot each other, that would be the first, very obvious risk then... especially considering that low-sec stations and POS'es would have very light/bribable/biased scurity... high sec stations, on the other hand would be rather save places, maybe even prohibiting the use of weapons... at least openly. That gives us the risk for life and limb... and the reward? Well, the possibillity to loot gear and implants would be thinkable. Another concept comes to mind when you think about the nature of hightech scifie... hacking. It has been established that capsuleers are connected to Neocron non stop, even without them sitting in their capsules. Now, who is to say that, if one could get physically close to another, there wouldn't be the possibility to hack their uplinks (think Ghost in the Shell) for Information, ISK or even "loot"? That would open up a whole new level of gameplay... risk/reward level = unfathomable! Sure, the clones capsuleers use would have to get a whole lot more sophisticated to make all that gameplay possible... weapons, gear, (non ship related) implants, physical stats and even skills would have to be implemented and balanced. Good thing that many of them could be taken from DUST... still, it would be a lot of work. ...alas, there you have it: Avatar centered gameplay with real meaning. EDIT: All that is only for what I think possible in stations... I didn't even start speculating about boarding battles and exploration of abandoned ships/stations...
I already sorted the inter-personal violence angle through my proposal of drone clones as specialyzed/expendable avatars for capsuleers.
Hisec could provide 100% safe but clone drone free environnents, whereas lowsec would not ban clone drones but also would be potentially dangerous, even "shoot your face" dangerous.
Clone drones are what a billionaire would do to put himself at risk for business (for fun, that would be another question).
What I oppose is a scenario where the only WiS around was the CQ and EVA prototype. Gameplay in stations must be first, not a kind of collateral bonus of implementing EVA.
Adn by the way, PvE also could benefit fom WiS. The scheme I presented a coupel weeks ago, with NPC agents generating missions as if they were cards from a deck being thrown for "battle" against other cards, also could be extended to stations. A clone drone with hacking implants could be very useful.... maybe escorted by a combat cyborg clone drone.
Clone drones could be anything a capsuleer couldn't be on his own, much as we don't expect capsuleers to fire cruise missiles from their ass, rather they use an avatar, a ship, a tool, to do that. Drone clones would be tools, for anything, from EVA to spying to hacking to hold gladiator battles at a fake colisseum. Just expendable tools. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Taiwanistan
321
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 20:03:00 -
[1685] - Quote
i want to suicide gank emoters in hisec everyday. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20849
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 20:04:00 -
[1686] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Clone drones could be anything a capsuleer couldn't be on his own, much as we don't expect capsuleers to fire cruise missiles from their ass, rather they use an avatar, a ship, a tool, to do that. Drone clones would be tools, for anything, from EVA to spying to hacking to hold gladiator battles at a fake colisseum. Just expendable tools.
Uh... I see, somobody knows the works of Masamune Shirow too, here.
That's actually a neat idea: Es capsuleers control and keep an array of ships, they also could keep a collection of short range clones for WiS and EVA missions/interaction... complete with fittings and gear... nice!
EDIT: Mr. Taiwanistan... welcome to my "hidden" list... enjoy your stay! "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1854
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 20:21:00 -
[1687] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Clone drones could be anything a capsuleer couldn't be on his own, much as we don't expect capsuleers to fire cruise missiles from their ass, rather they use an avatar, a ship, a tool, to do that. Drone clones would be tools, for anything, from EVA to spying to hacking to hold gladiator battles at a fake colisseum. Just expendable tools. Uh... I see, somobody knows the works of Masamune Shirow too, here. That's actually a neat idea: As capsuleers control and keep an array of ships, they also could keep a collection of short range clones for WiS and EVA missions/interaction... complete with fittings and gear... nice! Needless to say, that could become an entirely own game in it self... EDIT: Mr. Taiwanistan... welcome to my "hidden" list... enjoy your stay!
Errr... the work of who?
Here is the initial, detailed proposal of clone drones (which was conveniently blasted and opposed by, guess who?)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1327713#post1327713 The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20849
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 20:27:00 -
[1688] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: A Manga artist that wrote numerous cyberpunk/transhumanism/scifie comics... never mind.
Nice read, thanks... that's basically what I thought. It basically would be a DUST light, with different bodies except of suits. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1854
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 21:04:00 -
[1689] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: A Manga artist that wrote numerous cyberpunk/transhumanism/scifie comics... never mind. Nice read, thanks... that's basically what I thought. It basically would be a DUST light, with different bodies except of suits.
My inspiration were Syndicate & Deus Ex. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20849
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 21:07:00 -
[1690] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: All the same. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
183
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 21:10:00 -
[1691] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: A Manga artist that wrote numerous cyberpunk/transhumanism/scifie comics... never mind. Nice read, thanks... that's basically what I thought. It basically would be a DUST light, with different bodies except of suits. My inspiration were Syndicate & Deus Ex.
My God, syndicate was such a bad ass game. I used to love that game so much. The Persuadatron was OP. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
275
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 21:12:00 -
[1692] - Quote
Wow, this thread delivers. New CQ prototype |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 22:35:00 -
[1693] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote: :emoters:
:projecters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=psychological%20projection |
Taiwanistan
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 04:26:00 -
[1694] - Quote
heh "i just want to emote in 100% safety, without the risks of fis pvp, but here's a convoluted pvp-lite idea of billion isk clones for the rest of you, lol"
because special rules should be made for emoters TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
283
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 04:42:00 -
[1695] - Quote
Wow, those dudes still post?
btw the term for their condition is Pediophobia, or fear of dolls(barbie).
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
209
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 06:19:00 -
[1696] - Quote
handbanana wrote:So, nothing cold or harsh. Just a place you can walk around, RP and be seen. Maybe buy some stuff, but we can already do that now, and a lot more efficiently now. If you start putting stuff out there that is more like Mos Eisley and less like Second Life you'll get more bites. But, I forget myself, a lot of you are expecting and advocating WIS to be a safe theme park as evidenced by the quote below. Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I enjoy seeing stuff, but not enough as to risk wasting my time and assets outside of hisec. At Sisi, I've been to Old Man Star, the EVE gate and a few other interesting places, which in TQ would had cost me countless lives, ships and time... in case I din't grew sick of just trying to get there. I've got news for you, if you un-dock in this game you can be killed. if you want to explore you assume and prepare for that risk. EVE is not for the risk averse. I would expect the same risks to be ever present in WIS should you leave your CQ. Anyone arguing otherwise is advocating for theme-park play, and that is not EVE. Do any of you honestly believe a large enough percentage of existing subscribers are going to welcome the diversion of CCPs resources again to develop WIS as a theme park? If so, what data from CCP can you provide to back that up? Look at the recent threadnaught re: the recent TOS change if you need an example to the contrary.
Actually we're talking about Walking in Stations as being fairly safe because that's what lore supports. If you die outside of your pod you're dead, no buts about it, that's how its always been in the Lore and why stations have always been safe. Plus station security wouldn't take kindly to you starting a fire-fight in the super secure Capsuleer areas of a station.
As for the current ToS tizzy, it's mostly being instigated by a small group of players many of whom clearly don't understand what's actually been changed... Overall something like this happens any time CCP takes any action that could even remotely sort of maybe be construed as leading to a slippery slope where all scamming is banned in Eve...
So far it hasn't happened.
As to your claims, I would ask you to provide counter statistics rather than ad-hoc examples.
What there is however is a fairly large body of Game Design lit on player empathy and how having an avatar the player can connect with improves the game experience for the player, even players who don't engage in what most would term "Role-playing". This is supported by the large number of purchased cosmetics currently in-game and the long-standing desire for ship customization.
Tanthalassa wrote:Avatar game play should be in spirit of Eve as a whole.
I'm sure most of us would rather see it this way. Carebears including. It would not make sense to dock in a lowsec station and have a Quafe at the same bar as any local while expecting nothing to happen. Sure, capsuleers could pay a fee for their protection if they take that option to open the door that separates their safe quarters from hostile station environment. It could be mercs/station security bots. Could be Concord security bots in highsec, which in case of wardec would "suddenly" decide not to interfere in capsuleer affairs, unless you pay extra fee. And so on and so forth.
I am sure many similar ideas were discussed by CCP design teams or suggested by players before. Problem is any extensive avatar gameplay would probably require as much resources (financial & dev team size wise) required as a separate game. What CCP should've done is work on WiS as a separate game instead of spending so much on DUST, which is not a good enough to compete in harsh FPS market.
WiS could be fully tied into exploration, which would involve exploration in first place and not a boring deus ex rip off minigame.
If WiS were implemented it should not hinder eve, rather should boost interaction between not only players but with the game client itself. That means there should be much better interface. CQ in current form doesn't provide that and it is one of many reasons most people prefer staying in ship hangar anyway.
Except that walking in stations, by definition, is part of Eve, so developing it as a separate game doesn't make sense. Incarna was developed by a somewhat different team from the rest of Eve but the players still saw it as resources that 'should have been spent on in-space features'.
The problems with Incarna had more to do with releasing an incomplete feature set with poor PR handling than with a lack of prior excitement for the feature. If CCP had released with fully featured WiS and reasonably priced monocles we probably wouldn't be having this discussion, we'd be sitting around in some virtual bar playing the Eve equivalent of poker or chess and paying the GDP of a small town on Mattarri Prime for drinks. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
209
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 06:28:00 -
[1697] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Shalua Rui wrote: To answer the question: I don't believe EVE could ever be a theme park MMO, nor do I believe it would function as one... That said: If players would be provided with said station environments where they could own property, emergent gameplay would happen, as it always does. It would be different, sure, but even without the ability to shoot others outright "in the face", it sitll wouldn't be risk free, since nothing in EVE ever truly is.
That was not actually the question, I was referring to WIS specifically being (re)released as a theme park and/or with only theme park features, and not EVE becoming a theme park overall. Original point being, if you want to get more people on board with WIS development, start talking about the risks, rewards, and consequences, and not the potential for CQ decorum or theoretical MT revenue. The latter two do not seem to sell very well (pun intended) given the current player base. Emergent gameplay does not simply work itself out, well thought-out tools and resources need to be in place first. I am also fully aware of forms of PVP other than shooty-in-face. WIS should provide all PVP types if possible, and CCP has made noises in that direction. So, whatever that still means 2 years from now. Shalua Rui wrote: ...and about the recent "threadnaught" ...you know as good as I do, that the same people ignited that, that always complain about every change to "their" game ...that's hardly an indication for how the community feels about it.
Perhaps. That thread also illustrates perfectly how vocal and vehement players become when CCP messes with the cold/harsh sandbox aspect of EVE real, or perceived. That thread's 20-40 page predecessors had to be locked something like 2 or 3 times, and it's still going. Gaming news sites and popular player blogs are covering it. Glean from that whatever you will, a significant bit of the community is participating in the debate here and elsewhere regardless.
I direct your attention to the first post in this lovely thread which outlines a very unsafe idea for how the WiS/Ambulation system could be used.
I don't think there's any requirement that says stations need to be physically unsafe, though I could certainly see something like a non-lethal brawl being permitted in some seedy low-sec Angel Cartel dive as opposed to, say, in the middle of Jita 4-4. The problem with making low-sec stations dangerous is that takes a feature set that should be focused on player interaction and makes that interaction less likely to happen. It essentially pushes people back into their captains quarters. No, on the other hand, if you made something like a Derelict Station where you can dock and go exploring ala Deadspace, that could be pretty damn awesome.
You can't tell me you wouldn't enjoy docking a squad of Rifters, going into a wreck to hunt some poor bugger down while he's exploring for loot, and then coming away with a "kill mail" that says you shot this guy and stole his Battleship? |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1858
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 06:54:00 -
[1698] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:(...)The problem with making low-sec stations dangerous is that takes a feature set that should be focused on player interaction and makes that interaction less likely to happen. It essentially pushes people back into their captains quarters.(...)
Well, we can see just how succesful are the less-safe envionments in EVE, and in what high demand they are: Wormholes and lowsec, those places in New Eden which make Greenland look overcrowded...
I guess that it would make a lot of sense to make station interiors and then turn them into lowsec -nobody in local but a AFK cloaker and a bored gang of wannabe droogs...
Now seriously, stations are safe from non consentual fighting and they must stay this way. Consentual fighting, that would be another question... chessboxing comes to mind... or maybe some mud wrestling. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
183
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 07:03:00 -
[1699] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:(...)The problem with making low-sec stations dangerous is that takes a feature set that should be focused on player interaction and makes that interaction less likely to happen. It essentially pushes people back into their captains quarters.(...) Well, we can see just how succesful are the less-safe envionments in EVE, and in what high demand they are: Wormholes and lowsec, those places in New Eden which make Greenland look overcrowded... I guess that it would make a lot of sense to make station interiors and then turn them into lowsec -nobody in local but a AFK cloaker and a bored gang of wannabe droogs... Now seriously, stations are safe from non consentual fighting and they must stay this way. Consentual fighting, that would be another question... chessboxing comes to mind... or maybe some mud wrestling.
I disagree. Your Captains Quarters are currently safe from non-consensual PvP, but leaving your Quarters should hold the same risks as undocking in the security space you currently occupy. High sec should be almost entirely safe (with a few exceptions), lowsec should be less safe and any offenders would have to deal with low tech station security, and nullsec is anyone's game. I think even in highsec though you should be responsible for the safety of your own POSes. No security for you unless it's player created security. |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 07:06:00 -
[1700] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Except that walking in stations, by definition, is part of Eve, so developing it as a separate game doesn't make sense. Incarna was developed by a somewhat different team from the rest of Eve but the players still saw it as resources that 'should have been spent on in-space features'.
The problems with Incarna had more to do with releasing an incomplete feature set with poor PR handling than with a lack of prior excitement for the feature.
Fully featured WiS development would be main reason for separating it from Eve. Of course it is just a matter of perspective what "fully featured" is. For me would it inclusion of exploration, not only a bar or custom textured sofa in CQ.
And then I would see it only separated in a sense that you could ignore it - like we can exit CQ right now - so people who are so vehemently opposed to RP and etc could have that option.
Right now we have way too many options of features that require so called "iterations." If current "WiS"(WiCQ rather) gets that iteration, it better be something good, unlike that exploration minigame, or debatable eye candy of a warp animation.
Mostly it is about getting a complete feature vs getting something that we'll have to sit and wait on getting fixed for the next decade. |
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20854
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 08:19:00 -
[1701] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:I don't think there's any requirement that says stations need to be physically unsafe... I don't think so either. Lore has be changed before to accommodate new gameplay features... Ish and I already made two suggestions how that could be accomplished pretty easily (DUST implants, proxy clones). I agree that the whole project shouldn't be a game in itself... and not have the level of complexity DUST has, but I think it should be handled seperatly to EVE
Cade Windstalker wrote:You can't tell me you wouldn't enjoy docking a squad of Rifters, going into a wreck to hunt some poor bugger down while he's exploring for loot, and then coming away with a "kill mail" that says you shot this guy and stole his Battleship? That kinda already goes beyond WiS, but yea, that's pretty much the "endgame" of the features that are possble... I think that sounds pretty damn exiting!
"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
211
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 08:20:00 -
[1702] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Well, we can see just how succesful are the less-safe envionments in EVE, and in what high demand they are: Wormholes and lowsec, those places in New Eden which make Greenland look overcrowded... I guess that it would make a lot of sense to make station interiors and then turn them into lowsec -nobody in local but a AFK cloaker and a bored gang of wannabe droogs... Now seriously, stations are safe from non consentual fighting and they must stay this way. Consentual fighting, that would be another question... chessboxing comes to mind... or maybe some mud wrestling. I disagree. Your Captains Quarters are currently safe from non-consensual PvP, but leaving your Quarters should hold the same risks as undocking in the security space you currently occupy. High sec should be almost entirely safe (with a few exceptions), lowsec should be less safe and any offenders would have to deal with low tech station security, and nullsec is anyone's game. I think even in highsec though you should be responsible for the safety of your own POSes. No security for you unless it's player created security. If someone wants to pull a pistol on you in a high sec station then let them try. So long as their brains are exploded over the nearest wall moments later, I don't mind. Even if I do risk taking a bullet myself.
It's a better idea from a player interaction standpoint to have safe communal areas in stations, even if there are other less safe parts as well. This allows players to interact with other player avatars without worrying about getting jumped and killed.
After-all one of the biggest complaints with the NEX store is that you can't really show off your lovingly crafted Avatar with that awesome Monacle to other players, and overall CCP definitely wants more players out in Low and Null and wants them to be able to participate in features like this.
Also just from a "next pass" standpoint adding stuff like combat is a LOT more work than just getting, say, 50 avatars in the same room together... |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
211
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 08:21:00 -
[1703] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Fully featured WiS development would be main reason for separating it from Eve. Of course it is just a matter of perspective what "fully featured" is. As for me, it would be inclusion of exploration, not only a bar or custom textured sofa in CQ.
And then I would see it only separated in a sense that you could ignore it - like we can exit CQ right now - so people who are so vehemently opposed to RP and etc could have that option.
Right now we have way too many options of features that require so called "iterations." If current "WiS"(WiCQ rather) gets that iteration, it better be something good, unlike that exploration minigame, or debatable eye candy of a warp animation.
Mostly it is about getting a complete feature vs getting something that we'll have to sit and wait on getting fixed for the next decade.
In game development terms almost everything is going to need iteration over the long-term, and any good and feature rich implementation of Ambulation (walking around in general rather than just "in stations") would probably require multiple iterations with various features added to each one. Otherwise we'd risk having another completely "in-station" expansion, and I don't think even the most ardent proponents of Ambulation features want that.
Say for a start we get to open the door, stations get common areas with mission agents, bars, and maybe a couple of little games like "space chess" that some CCPers made in their 20% time.
Next iteration we get customizable corp areas/offices that are decorated and customized by the corp who owns them, complete with private bars, and other luxuries, maybe even the option for null/low sec ones to be upgraded with private contacts that can dispatch higher reward missions or something? (sort of an idea for a reward similar to current sov upgrades, but only available in low and null areas)
Maybe after that we get the option to sneak into the seedier parts of the station away from security drones and sentry turrets that protect the Capsuleer only areas. This could provide some of the danger people are after in exchange for rewards like modules, rare Boosters that can only be obtained this way, trophies to be displayed in Corp or CQ areas, or maps similar to a site escalation.
Further down the line we get things similar to the OP or what I posted earlier where we can delve into an abandoned station or star-ship wreck and explore for salvage and other goodies, either through some kind of disposable clone system, a remote controlled robotic suit, or something else entirely. Rogue Drones alone would make for some amazing survival horror.
At this point maybe we're getting to the point of a standalone game but my musings also represent a couple years of development time at the least and while it's a great pie in the sky idea I'd be pretty damn happy if we got to my second phase in the next three years, I wouldn't be expecting anything like even partially featured FPS combat/exploration any time soon. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
2818
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 10:29:00 -
[1704] - Quote
I've removed some rumor mongering from the thread. EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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Flamespar
Woof Club
703
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 11:03:00 -
[1705] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:I've removed some rumor mongering from the thread.
We'd be quite happy to take our conversation elsewhere.
Now if you'd just open the door .... I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Taiwanistan
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 11:21:00 -
[1706] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Now seriously, stations are safe from non consentual fighting and they must stay this way. Consentual fighting, that would be another question... chessboxing comes to mind... or maybe some mud wrestling. explain your barbie logic please TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Flamespar
Woof Club
703
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 12:07:00 -
[1707] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Now seriously, stations are safe from non consentual fighting and they must stay this way. Consentual fighting, that would be another question... chessboxing comes to mind... or maybe some mud wrestling.
No No No No No No No
There should always be risk. It's just a question of degree.
The only place you should be absolutely safe is in your CQ . I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20854
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 12:40:00 -
[1708] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:The only place you should be absolutely safe is in your CQ . Except when you invite somebody over...
To be honest, I'm kind on the fence about that... not for POSes and lawless (pirate) stations, but for high/low-sec. I see only one real way to keep capsuleers in line, other then "banning the use of firearms" in high-sec stations... who ever brakes the rules (ie. shoots sombody down in a NPC station), has to face consequences... like a 24 hour station ban and/or a steep fee... in addition to the sec-standing hit... other then that, stations would be slaughterhouses in no time, believe me. There is a reason why there are station guns outside. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1862
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 13:04:00 -
[1709] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Now seriously, stations are safe from non consentual fighting and they must stay this way. Consentual fighting, that would be another question... chessboxing comes to mind... or maybe some mud wrestling. No No No No No No No There should always be risk. It's just a question of degree. The only place you should be absolutely safe is in your CQ .
Risk as in "being scammed" or as in "being bullied"? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20854
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 13:22:00 -
[1710] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Risk as in "being scammed" or as in "being bullied"? For some people, the definition of "risk" is the potential of total helplessness... not the same thing.
Also: One should always keep in mind: NPC stations are places owned and governed by somebody... they are enclosed spaces, with strict rules inforced by their owner... there is no police force like CONCORD... a Caldari Navy station functions under Caldari Navy law. No capsuleer in her right would ever think about messing with that kind of opposition, especially without a ship around her... it, more or less, would be like attacking CONCORD or Navy ships around a gate.
In lore, capsuleers often attack stuff... stations, planets, etc. but that's not how the game works... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1864
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 13:37:00 -
[1711] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Risk as in "being scammed" or as in "being bullied"? For some people, the definition of "risk" is the potential of total helplessness... not the same thing. Also: One should always keep in mind: NPC stations are places owned and governed by somebody... they are enclosed spaces, with strict rules inforced by their owner... there is no police force like CONCORD... a Caldari Navy station functions under Caldari Navy law. No capsuleer in her right would ever think about messing with that kind of opposition, especially without a ship around her... it, more or less, would be like attacking CONCORD or Navy ships around a gate. In lore, capsuleers often attack stuff... stations, planets, etc. but that's not how the game works...
All in all, what are capsuleers? Billionaires or thrill-seeking droogs? Generals or grunts? Architects or bricklayers?
I can buy violence for fun, but not the kind of demented unconsequential bullying that goes for PvP in space. If i am carrying business in station i want to carry those business without fear of being interrupted by a gang of droogs who fear nothing as their actions never have consequences. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
330
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 13:45:00 -
[1712] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:The only place you should be absolutely safe is in your CQ . Or inside your pod sitting cozy within a ship.
It has been stated that some people can not relate to a ship since it is not an avatar. So I started thinking with avatar gaming, why not start off with a hull of an avatar and train various skills to add equipment (modules) to this hull? While the attributes we have are the core base, these can be combined to train avatar attributes - similar to the old Learning skills - which will open up the player to be allowed to use certain items.
Example: Using your Perception and Willpower attributes, you train the skill "Strength" which conditions your physical body. Strength 1 allows you to wear studded leather, Strength 3 allows you to wear steel plated overcoat, and Strength 5 allows you to wear the rare full military body armor.
Example: Using your Charisma and Intelligence attributes, you train the skill "Charisma" which opens up the ability to use your charms and wits to sway people. Charisma 1 allows you to wear simple Caldari jewelry, Charisma 3 allows you to wear higher ended Gallente clothing, and Charisma 5 allows you to wear articles that makes the Empress jealous.
Encounter example: There is a crusty old veteran blocking your passage to potential riches. If you went the combat route, then your body armor and weaponry (trained with other skills), along with other skills trained (dodging, hand-held rapid firing, hand-held sharpshooting, etc.) might eliminate the guard. Or if you went the charm route, using your fine silk clothing, hand gestures, and a rarer bottle of wine might have the guard pass out to allow you passage.
Similar to modules, the meta 0 modules for your avatar could be created using a small sample of various planetary items combined with blue prints while the rarest stuff requires you to risk yourself to obtain. The Nex store items could be considered but mere trinkets.
Overall, the idea is to parallel the flying in space aspect with station gaming: your avatar being similar to a ship, development of your avatar parallel to expanding the abilities of your ship, and training interlinked to allow you to use better means of survival.
Obviously this is but a very quick angle that would need to be fleshed out. Those players that just want to interact, showing off their trinkets will have that option. But risking yourself wearing the highest military grade body armor while carrying a BFG9000 in hopes of getting the biggest score will require extensive skill training... and a bit of luck.
Thanks for reading. |
Taiwanistan
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 14:09:00 -
[1713] - Quote
as in running the risk of getting suicide ganked and podded once you step out of the cq, you know, sort of like the rest of eve. TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20854
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 14:21:00 -
[1714] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Overall, the idea is to parallel the flying in space aspect with station gaming: your avatar being similar to a ship, development of your avatar parallel to expanding the abilities of your ship, and training interlinked to allow you to use better means of survival. Exactly what Ish and I meant by "using proxy clones/clone drones"... they are, basically, remote corntrolled "body ships", if will...
Still, I wouldn't consider that "station gameplay"... or we would end up with DUST FPS battles on NPC controlled stations... wouldn't make a lick of sense, I'm afraid.
Now in boarding combat or when exploring a rogue drone hive, on the other hand... THAT would be the place to use these "combat bodies". "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
330
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 17:15:00 -
[1715] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Exactly what Ish and I meant by "using proxy clones/clone drones"... they are, basically, remote corntrolled "body ships", if you will... So where is the (high / medium / low) risk of loss using a proxy? |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20862
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 18:15:00 -
[1716] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:So where is the (high / medium / low) risk of loss using a proxy? Well, same as loosing a ship, really... you loose a, potentially expensive shell, complete with weapons, gear and implants... some of which your opponent can loot... also, you are thrown back into your ship/CQ and have to get a fresh clone. In addition, if that happens while you are trying to board an opponents ship, she also would get a chance to flee. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Grimpak
Duty. The Cursed Few
1107
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 18:27:00 -
[1717] - Quote
oh man I'm so reposting this here:
**** it, I'm ******* tired of all these threads. Incarna was a huge fail because CCP thought we were mindless drones and wanted to expand the damn thing into a "social gameplay avenue". that sucks, it needs to be hardcore at the level of spaceships-on-spaceships action we get in space.
I don't want barbies in space.
I want ruthelessness in space. I want to get close to someone and pop a damn blaster in a guy's skull just for the giggles, **** everything else.
I want to use a thorax' nose to rip a space station's interior decks so that I can invade enemy stations from within, shooting crap left and right, board the same damn thorax and finish the job with hot blaster action on the survivors.
I want war rooms for intel processing for gangs, complete with holographic starmap displaying real-time intel.
I want hardcore pvp action if WiS is to ever come to fruit, **** social gameplay.
and most important of all, I WANT FOR THEM TO KEEP WORKING ON THE DAMN SPACESHIP PART OF THE GAME. NO "18 MONTHS". NO ******* 1000$ PANTS.
I also hate the pro-WiS and the anti-WiS sides with a passion, your opinion about WiS sucks, doesn't matter how. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1052
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 18:50:00 -
[1718] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:oh man I'm so reposting this here:
**** it, I'm ******* tired of all these threads. Incarna was a huge fail because CCP thought we were mindless drones and wanted to expand the damn thing into a "social gameplay avenue". that sucks, it needs to be hardcore at the level of spaceships-on-spaceships action we get in space.
I don't want barbies in space.
I want ruthelessness in space. I want to get close to someone and pop a damn blaster in a guy's skull just for the giggles, **** everything else.
I want to use a thorax' nose to rip a space station's interior decks so that I can invade enemy stations from within, shooting crap left and right, board the same damn thorax and finish the job with hot blaster action on the survivors.
I want war rooms for intel processing for gangs, complete with holographic starmap displaying real-time intel.
I want hardcore pvp action if WiS is to ever come to fruit, **** social gameplay.
and most important of all, I WANT FOR THEM TO KEEP WORKING ON THE DAMN SPACESHIP PART OF THE GAME. NO "18 MONTHS". NO ******* 1000$ PANTS.
I also hate the pro-WiS and the anti-WiS sides with a passion, your opinion about WiS sucks, doesn't matter how.
the hate is strong in you padawan R.S.I2014
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Grimpak
Duty. The Cursed Few
1110
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:04:00 -
[1719] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:the hate is strong in you padawan just general bitterness and hate for ****** posting. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20862
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:17:00 -
[1720] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:the hate is strong in you padawan No sh**...
As always, the "truth" lies somewhere in between, I guess... ramming a ship into a station or shooting someone in the face isn't hardcore... it's a possibility, but it shouldn't be the only one. You really want hardcore? Ok, reduce communication to stations, direct ship to ship/fleet com and (capacitor consuming) system wide broadcast pulses... no local... no?
Also: Could we please stop with this "space barbie" BS? I didn't play with dolls when I was a kid, so I wont start with it now...
...ah, ok, then you'll be happy to hear that I will no longer have to read your ***** posting Grimpak. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1866
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:19:00 -
[1721] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:the hate is strong in you padawan No sh**... As always, the "truth" lies somewhere in between, I guess... ramming a ship into a station or shooting someone in the face isn't hardcore... it's a possibility, but it shouldn't be the only one. You really want hardcore? Ok, reduce communication to stations, direct ship to ship/fleet com and (capacitor consuming) system wide broadcast pulses... no local... no? Also: Could we please stop with this "space barbie" BS? I didn't play with dolls when I was a kid, so I wont start with it now...
He wants hardcore, he should try to stop a bullet with his brains at Star Citizen. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Taiwanistan
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:27:00 -
[1722] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:the hate is strong in you padawan No sh**... As always, the "truth" lies somewhere in between, I guess... ramming a ship into a station or shooting someone in the face isn't hardcore... it's a possibility, but it shouldn't be the only one. You really want hardcore? Ok, reduce communication to stations, direct ship to ship/fleet com and (capacitor consuming) system wide broadcast pulses... no local... no? Also: Could we please stop with this "space barbie" BS? I didn't play with dolls when I was a kid, so I wont start with it now... He wants hardcore, he should try to stop a bullet with his brains at Star Citizen. cus wis is fo emotin' TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20862
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:32:00 -
[1723] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:He wants hardcore, he should try to stop a bullet with his brains at Star Citizen. Now now... hidden and gone... whatever.
Back to topic... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:35:00 -
[1724] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:i want to suicide gank emoters in hisec everyday.
Grimpak wrote: I want to use a thorax' nose to rip a space station's interior decks so that I can invade enemy stations from within, shooting crap left and right, board the same damn thorax and finish the job with hot blaster action on the survivors.
yeahhhhh bic boi.... get em keybord gangsta!!!!
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:07:00 -
[1725] - Quote
Seriously tho, some of these forum warriors foaming at the mouth behind the computer need to smoke a spliff and chill.
I think theres a couple of things we need to put in perspective here: When the CCP Devs mentioned that the EVA gameplay was not safe, they are referring to their prototype of Extra Vehicular Activity done by the capsuleers in derelict structures or abandoned space stations in space, not the social areas in active space stations that might be introduced later on. All the active space stations in New Eden (be it in highsec, lowsec, null or wormholes, be them npc or player owned) are all owned and ran by corporations. Corporations which expend their share of isk to keep them running, suplied with all their logistic and maintenance needs, aswell as defense and security measures. Just because the corporation decides to let people dock and use services doesn't mean that it will allow you to act like a maniac and go around shooting people left and right. Keep in mind that you're in a SPACE station which is not a place where you wanna be cracking wholes in the walls. Of course that some corporations will require you to leave your guns at the captains quarters or at the hangar, making use of metal detectors or other detection means mandatory, while others may authorize you to walk around with them. In my opinion the charachter pvp inside active stations should be possible as long as you're allowed to carry guns or smuggle them inside somehow, or by use of melee combat, but not without the owning corporation's security forces immediate response. Let's not forget who owns the stations and what they are for. Of course this does not apply to the EVA derelict structures and abandoned stations where the isn't any sort of control or combat repression from security forces. |
Grimpak
Duty. The Cursed Few
1112
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:11:00 -
[1726] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Taiwanistan wrote:i want to suicide gank emoters in hisec everyday. Grimpak wrote: I want to use a thorax' nose to rip a space station's interior decks so that I can invade enemy stations from within, shooting crap left and right, board the same damn thorax and finish the job with hot blaster action on the survivors.
yeahhhhh bic boi.... get em keybord gangsta!!!! it's better than dancing in funny hats.
of course you can dance without hats in a sort of a safety dance or something... [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
275
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:18:00 -
[1727] - Quote
Quote:I don't want barbies in space.
How about barbies in stations?
You want roughness in space, when did space became less rough for you? More barbies in space doesn't mean they will not shoot you in the face, and maybe they will do it better than Harry Forever, the self proclaimed king of PVP. New CQ prototype |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:41:00 -
[1728] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:it's better than dancing in funny hats. of course you can dance without hats in a sort of a safety dance or something... keybord gangsta cowboy from the wild wild west wooot woot
dont make me pull it on ya... on ya on ya.... |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20863
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:50:00 -
[1729] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Let's not forget who owns the stations and what they are for. Of course this does not apply to the EVA derelict structures and abandoned stations where there isn't any sort of control or combat repression from security forces. Exactly my point... it's all a balance... and besides your actions always come around. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Grimpak
Duty. The Cursed Few
1114
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 21:03:00 -
[1730] - Quote
then pull... just don't spin me 'round [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 21:36:00 -
[1731] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:I want to use a thorax' nose to rip a space station's interior decks so that I can invade enemy stations from within, shooting crap left and right, board the same damn thorax and finish the job with hot blaster action on the survivors.
someone needs to get laid |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
330
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 23:45:00 -
[1732] - Quote
raven666wings wrote: ... Keep in mind that you're in a SPACE station which is not a place where you wanna be cracking wholes in the walls. ... A bit off-topic... to keep a sense of perspective, a frigate is suppose to be about the size of a 747 airplane. Now that frigate is how small next to a station since stations are apparently holding thousands of ships and how many people (along with all the other living arrangements). Based on how the game is set-up, there is the shield around the whole station, along with using dreads to bring down stations. Thus bullets in melee weapons being as small as they are would not puncture the outer hull of a station and suddenly asphyxiate the whole into imploding. Years ago, the old story line had a Gallente mother ship crashing into a Caldari station and while the station burned (actually still burning years later), it did not explode. And based upon the planetary interaction good "Sterile Conduits", as part of its description - "Each length of flexible, self-repairing tube..."
So blasting away with melee weapons would rile the citizens, it would not even dent the overall station.
Back on topic. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
109
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 23:55:00 -
[1733] - Quote
Pleasure Palace!
I want to explore the Pleasure Palace!
It always bothered me when I ran missions that I couldn't go inside ! Might not even want to blow it up if I could! |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
330
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 00:00:00 -
[1734] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Guttripper wrote:So where is the (high / medium / low) risk of loss using a proxy? Well, same as loosing a ship, really... you loose a, potentially expensive shell, complete with weapons, gear and implants... some of which your opponent can loot... also, you are thrown back into your ship/CQ and have to get a fresh clone. In addition, if that happens while you are trying to board an opponents ship, she also would get a chance to flee. Hmmm... while in space, you can loose your ship and pod. But in avatar form, you can loose your clone / proxy but how can you loose your pod since it would not be there at the moment of loss? What risk would there be hidden away in a clone vat? Equipment and gear for your avatar could be (easily) replaced, but what potential loss is there to your very inner core (pod)?
I'll have to think about this one further. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 00:08:00 -
[1735] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:raven666wings wrote: ... Keep in mind that you're in a SPACE station which is not a place where you wanna be cracking wholes in the walls. ... A bit off-topic... to keep a sense of perspective, a frigate is suppose to be about the size of a 747 airplane. Now that frigate is how small next to a station since stations are apparently holding thousands of ships and how many people (along with all the other living arrangements). Based on how the game is set-up, there is the shield around the whole station, along with using dreads to bring down stations. Thus bullets in melee weapons being as small as they are would not puncture the outer hull of a station and suddenly asphyxiate the whole into imploding. Years ago, the old story line had a Gallente mother ship crashing into a Caldari station and while the station burned (actually still burning years later), it did not explode. And based upon the planetary interaction good "Sterile Conduits", as part of its description - "Each length of flexible, self-repairing tube..." So blasting away with melee weapons would rile the citizens, it would not even dent the overall station. Back on topic.
1. The "shield" you are talking about is probably a force field around a POS. Stations do not use these in the game. Even if they did they are there to prevent outsiders from entering the perimeter, not to protect the structure from inner damage.
2. There are other kinds of guns other than projectile ammo ones, like plasma and laser rifles, particle cannons, etc. Of course a 10m thick metal wall would less likely be punctured by them than a 1-2m thick glass window from a station bar or hall. And when such event happened, what would suceed woudn't be an implosion but a depressurization of the place, with all the breathable air being sucked out into space.
3. Stations burning in space? Lol. You'd need the space to be filled with oxigen or other gaseous comburent for that to happen. |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
330
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 00:30:00 -
[1736] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:1. The "shield" you are talking about is probably a force field around a POS. Stations do not use these in the game. Even if they did they are there to prevent outsiders from entering the perimeter, not to protect the structure from inner damage. We can not say this for certain since there is no way to damage a station from within, yet.
raven666wings wrote:2. There are other kinds of guns other than projectile ammo ones, like plasma and laser rifles, particle cannons, etc. Of course a 10m thick metal wall would less likely be punctured by them than a 1-2m thick glass window from a station bar or hall. And when such event happened, what would suceed woudn't be an implosion but a depressurization of the place, with all the breathable air being sucked out into space. Stations are suppose to be the size of cities. So you're saying a puncture anywhere would suck the whole station dry? Nobody designed it to be segmented to allow sections to be cut-off from the rest of the station?
raven666wings wrote:3. Stations burning in space? Lol. You'd need the space to be filled with oxigen or other gaseous comburent for that to happen. Malkalen - Malkalen V - Moon 1 - Ishukone Corporation Factory - better clue CCP in on burning stations outside into space. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
86
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 00:44:00 -
[1737] - Quote
Read what I wrote one more time, you will understand it better. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
87
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 01:23:00 -
[1738] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:So where is the (high / medium / low) risk of loss using a proxy?
In the same place where the (high / medium / low) risk of loss using a pod is. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
11425
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 02:35:00 -
[1739] - Quote
This Merry-Go-Round topic still active?
First it's on, then it's off, then on again, then off. It's a never ending cycle that just keeps going ...... and going ...... and going ...... Sorta like the Energizer Bunny.
And wasn't Team Avatar disbanded and it's members placed into other CCP Teams?
Now don't get me wrong, the idea of having Avatar game play content is all fine and dandy. The problem is having that content appeal to everyone which isn't gonna happen any time soon. Mainly because everyone has a different interpretation of what that content should entail.
DMC
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Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
132
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 02:47:00 -
[1740] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:The problem is having that content appeal to everyone which isn't gonna happen any time soon. It is not a problem of content. It's a problem with people, who as a whole aren't ever going to be pleased. The ones that hate the idea of WiS making it into Eve, who are most vocal about it hurt this game more than that "incarna" release fail. |
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
215
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 03:21:00 -
[1741] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Flamespar wrote:The only place you should be absolutely safe is in your CQ . Or inside your pod sitting cozy within a ship. It has been stated that some people can not relate to a ship since it is not an avatar. So I started thinking with avatar gaming, why not start off with a hull of an avatar and train various skills to add equipment (modules) to this hull? While the attributes we have are the core base, these can be combined to train avatar attributes - similar to the old Learning skills - which will open up the player to be allowed to use certain items. Example: Using your Perception and Willpower attributes, you train the skill "Strength" which conditions your physical body. Strength 1 allows you to wear studded leather, Strength 3 allows you to wear steel plated overcoat, and Strength 5 allows you to wear the rare full military body armor. Example: Using your Charisma and Intelligence attributes, you train the skill "Charisma" which opens up the ability to use your charms and wits to sway people. Charisma 1 allows you to wear simple Caldari jewelry, Charisma 3 allows you to wear higher ended Gallente clothing, and Charisma 5 allows you to wear articles that makes the Empress jealous. Encounter example: There is a crusty old veteran blocking your passage to potential riches. If you went the combat route, then your body armor and weaponry (trained with other skills), along with other skills trained (dodging, hand-held rapid firing, hand-held sharpshooting, etc.) might eliminate the guard. Or if you went the charm route, using your fine silk clothing, hand gestures, and a rarer bottle of wine might have the guard pass out to allow you passage. Similar to modules, the meta 0 modules for your avatar could be created using a small sample of various planetary items combined with blue prints while the rarest stuff requires you to risk yourself to obtain. The Nex store items could be considered but mere trinkets. Overall, the idea is to parallel the flying in space aspect with station gaming: your avatar being similar to a ship, development of your avatar parallel to expanding the abilities of your ship, and training interlinked to allow you to use better means of survival. Obviously this is but a very quick angle that would need to be fleshed out. Those players that just want to interact, showing off their trinkets will have that option. But risking yourself wearing the highest military grade body armor while carrying a BFG9000 in hopes of getting the biggest score will require extensive skill training... and a bit of luck. Thanks for reading.
This isn't really the issue. The issue has to do with the human empathy response and our ability to self identify with a human character far better than with a tank or ship. This connection is reinforced with the ability to customize your character since this creates a sense of ownership.
Certainly the progression and training help as well but numbers on a spreadsheet don't make you feel like you are that character, they just make you feel proud of having big numbers...
DeMichael Crimson wrote:This Merry-Go-Round topic still active? First it's on, then it's off, then on again, then off. It's a never ending cycle that just keeps going ...... and going ...... and going ...... Sorta like the Energizer Bunny. And wasn't Team Avatar disbanded and it's members placed into other CCP Teams? Now don't get me wrong, the idea of having Avatar game play content is all fine and dandy. The problem is having that content appeal to everyone which isn't gonna happen any time soon. Mainly because everyone has a different interpretation of what that content should entail. DMC
No piece of content the devs create is ever going to appeal to the entire player-base so "someone isn't going to like that" isn't a reason to not do something, the trick is to get it to where the people with a positive reaction out-number the people with a negative one.
Fundamental rule of game development:
Quote:Any change or decision you make will **** off a portion of the player-base, including the decision to change nothing. |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
4211
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 03:40:00 -
[1742] - Quote
this may have been said here already, my apologies if so...but...ccp should make the game they want. and there will be those of us that play it. and those of us that don't. i, for one, am pretty happy with what they do. avatar gameplay would be great. but it's more of an icing on the cake thing. i won't stop playing if there is no avatar content. i might play more if there were...but my sub doesn't rest on the presence of that sort gameplay. |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
132
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 04:01:00 -
[1743] - Quote
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:this may have been said here already, my apologies if so...but...ccp should make the game they want. and there will be those of us that play it. and those of us that don't. i, for one, am pretty happy with what they do. avatar gameplay would be great. but it's more of an icing on the cake thing. i won't stop playing if there is no avatar content. i might play more if there were...but my sub doesn't rest on the presence of that sort gameplay. Eve is 10 years old. It hit 500k subscriptions, which is quite low, considering amount of alt accounts (many of which are bots). I think Eve deserves better. CCP devs deserve better. A couple of them left CCP recently, and while everyone keeps saying it is normal, I'd like to disagree. Eve is not dying, it is stagnating.
The bug fixes, rebalancing get to be called expansions. WiS on the other hand could bring lots of many players, while not necessarily modifying or killing core gameplay. Plus I do think they wanted to deliver the content, otherwise trailers like this would not exist. Unless it's just a misleading fluff. |
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
4211
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 04:19:00 -
[1744] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:this may have been said here already, my apologies if so...but...ccp should make the game they want. and there will be those of us that play it. and those of us that don't. i, for one, am pretty happy with what they do. avatar gameplay would be great. but it's more of an icing on the cake thing. i won't stop playing if there is no avatar content. i might play more if there were...but my sub doesn't rest on the presence of that sort gameplay. Eve is 10 years old. It hit 500k subscriptions, which is quite low, considering amount of alt accounts (many of which are bots). I think Eve deserves better. CCP devs deserve better. A couple of them left CCP recently, and while everyone keeps saying it is normal, I'd like to disagree. Eve is not dying, it is stagnating. The bug fixes, rebalancing get to be called expansions. WiS on the other hand could bring lots of many players, while not necessarily modifying or killing core gameplay. Plus I do think they wanted to deliver the content, otherwise trailers like this would not exist. Unless it's just misleading fluff.
i think it could attract new people as well. no argument there. and i don't think it would hurt core gameplay either. hardcore ships in space people might be upset they miss a, oh so critical ship rebalancing or two to get avatar stuff out. but i bet most of them would still log in everyday anyway. if only to check skills like many of them do now as it is.
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
215
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 04:31:00 -
[1745] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Eve is 10 years old. It hit 500k subscriptions, which is quite low, considering amount of alt accounts (many of which are bots). I think Eve deserves better. CCP devs deserve better. A couple of them left CCP recently, and while everyone keeps saying it is normal, I'd like to disagree. Eve is not dying, it is stagnating. The bug fixes, rebalancing get to be called expansions. WiS on the other hand could bring lots of many players, while not necessarily modifying or killing core gameplay. Plus I do think they wanted to deliver the content, otherwise trailers like this would not exist. Unless it's just misleading fluff.
Actually Eve is growing.
That's a chart of every sub-1 million subs MMO. This is the chart for subs over 1 million. Note that Lineage 1 no longer exists.
Of all of those MMOs Eve Online is the only one that's both Subscription Based and still growing with several of the Free to Play ones even losing active accounts. In-fact the only subscription based game with more active accounts than Eve Online is World of Warcraft and its lost over 1/3rd of its active subs since its peak in 2010 while Eve's population has almost doubled.
As for the recent departures, that happens. People don't tend to want to work on the same game for the rest of their life. CCP has gained and lost people in the past too as has every other game company.
Also most accounts in Eve are not bots, that claim is silly. Yes Eve has a lot of alt accounts but that's actually made it more successful, not less so.
Data from MMOData.com which currently has an article on Eve on its main page. |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
133
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 05:36:00 -
[1746] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:considering amount of alt accounts (many of which are bots). Also most accounts in Eve are not bots, that claim is silly. many =/= most . |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
215
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 05:54:00 -
[1747] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:considering amount of alt accounts (many of which are bots). Also most accounts in Eve are not bots, that claim is silly. many =/= most .
The claim is still silly. There's never been any proof of more than a minor botting problem in Eve. Just because you don't see how someone could possibly sit around doing missions, mining, or station trading doesn't mean people don't actively engage in and enjoy these activities. |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
133
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 06:16:00 -
[1748] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:The claim is still silly. There's never been any proof of more than a minor botting problem in Eve. Just because you don't see how someone could possibly sit around doing missions, mining Eh, this is MMO. Closing the eyes on the problem won't fix it. Botting isn't as rampant as it used to be for sure - thanks to RMT taking big hit due to plex - but it is not gone either.
Though in regard of the other stuff you kind of nailed it. Fixing pve aspect of eve would be nice. I.E. making it more engaging. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20864
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 06:34:00 -
[1749] - Quote
Now now... that's neither a "botting" nor an "EVE is dying" thread.
I know DMC, but showing support and collecting ideas for the (from what we know) future gameplay that might come to EVE is still a good thing, in my opinion. True, EVE has many problems in the spaceship department, still... but laying a solide groundwork for WiS now would be as good as a time as any... and it would bring new subscriptions, if only from people curious about the new stuff.
On the tooic of firefights in stations: It's not so much the technical side that would be problematic (I'm pretty sure, segmented structure, containment fields, or even shielded interior walls/windows would take care of that), but the fact that capsuleers are only guests on NPC stations... like I said, the Caldari Navy my not appreciate a capsuleer running rampant with guns blazing inside one of THEIR stations. That's not to say that covert assassinations wouldn't be possible, though.
On the topic of risk/reward of WiS and EVA: One thing that would be possible as a consequence for loosing your "exploration clone" would be a backlash when it dies, that also has adverse effects on your actual clone... not quite killing it (that would defeat the purpose of a remote clone in the first place) but, maybe, costing you SP? Just a thought...
Also: As long as there is oxygen, there can be fire, so stations CAN burn from the inside... if not for very long. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1868
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 07:02:00 -
[1750] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Eurydia Vespasian wrote:this may have been said here already, my apologies if so...but...ccp should make the game they want. and there will be those of us that play it. and those of us that don't. i, for one, am pretty happy with what they do. avatar gameplay would be great. but it's more of an icing on the cake thing. i won't stop playing if there is no avatar content. i might play more if there were...but my sub doesn't rest on the presence of that sort gameplay. Eve is 10 years old. It hit 500k subscriptions, which is quite low, considering amount of alt accounts (many of which are bots). I think Eve deserves better. CCP devs deserve better. A couple of them left CCP recently, and while everyone keeps saying it is normal, I'd like to disagree. Eve is not dying, it is stagnating. The bug fixes, rebalancing get to be called expansions. WiS on the other hand could bring lots of many players, while not necessarily modifying or killing core gameplay. Plus I do think they wanted to deliver the content, otherwise trailers like this would not exist. Unless it's just misleading fluff.
EVE's core gameplay has gone as far a it could, and new gamepaly is necessary to keep the game healthy. WiS was a good idea in that sense.
Once they've sold the game to everyone who would buy it, and then they are already selling it multiple times to existing customers, the only way to grow is to sell the game to people not playing it. That can be done int ow ways: spin off games (DUST, Vakyrie) and -god forbid it, the heresy!- NEW core gameplay.
So CCP haves that 20-30% of dudes who actually enjoy and "buy" the "core" gameplay and then the sorry rest who do anything but "core" and then leave... and the question is: where are more potential new players? In the "we love core" bunch or in the "anything but core" crowd?
This goes beyond WiS. It stretches into PvE, hisec content, solo playing and casual friendliness.
I seriously wonder what will be the content of the Hallellujah Plan. The stakes are massive, and it will be a turning point, on wether EVE sticked to its core and digged into it literally to death, or dared and at least tried to outlive the demography and lifespan of its niche.
There are many potential EVE players out there, but they are not buying the 10 years old reeheated "core" porridge. As a company, CCP could be sensibly placing their eggs in other baskets and agree that EVE has seen the writing on the wall and it's time to move into other products, or they could stick to their love and try to save it through daring. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
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Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
189
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 07:31:00 -
[1751] - Quote
I feel like I should say something to help keep the thread going, and support the idea.
But there is nothing left to say. CCP are just going to continue to ignore what people want just like they did pre-incarna. I almost feel that something more radical should happen. Maybe we should publically hang around outside of the new player safe zones and suicide gank their new players in their shiny new cormorants. I imagine doing that for any length of time would hurt sub numbers pretty bad. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20864
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 07:51:00 -
[1752] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:This goes beyond WiS. It stretches into PvE, hisec content, solo playing and casual friendliness. Oh my, the evil word... I bet Goons all over EVE are breathing into bags just about now...
I agree though. EVE is certainly NOT dying, but neither is it growing/inventing itself... all we have is a "future vision" but no real path how to get there... all the while CCP is pouring afford into games that are, while EVE related, not EVE.
DUST's integration into the game was a nice idea, but it clearly wasn't the big "industry changer" that CCP thought it would be... not in itself and especially not for EVE, and Valkyrie will be neither. They should take what they learned there and actually put it to use on their main game... you know, the game that kept them alive for 10 years.
EVE's spaceship (core) gameplay is strong... I don't think it would be endangered/dumbed down by some "bells and whistles".
@ Davon: That's one possibility... and actually a very "EVE'esque" one. ...but I think we should try a less aggressive approach first. Maybe a petition or a Facebook group? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
707
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 07:51:00 -
[1753] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Actually Eve is growing.That's a chart of every sub-1 million subs MMO. This is the chart for subs over 1 million. Note that Lineage 1 no longer exists. Of all of those MMOs Eve Online is the only one that's both Subscription Based and still growing with several of the Free to Play ones even losing active accounts. In-fact the only subscription based game with more active accounts than Eve Online is World of Warcraft and its lost over 1/3rd of its active subs since its peak in 2010 while Eve's population has almost doubled. As for the recent departures, that happens. People don't tend to want to work on the same game for the rest of their life. CCP has gained and lost people in the past too as has every other game company. Also most accounts in Eve are not bots, that claim is silly. Yes Eve has a lot of alt accounts but that's actually made it more successful, not less so. Data from MMOData.com which currently has an article on Eve on its main page.
You know looking at those charts, it makes me wonder if themepark games are basically treated as "get rich quick schemes" where investors buy in at the start and start selling their shares just before the predictable crash in subscriptions a couple months after launch. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20864
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 08:12:00 -
[1754] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:You know looking at those charts, it makes me wonder if themepark games are basically treated as "get rich quick schemes" where investors buy in at the start and start selling their shares just before the predictable crash in subscriptions a couple months after launch. It's not so much theme park's only, but MMO's in general... it's no coincidence that most tripple A MMO's these days start of subscription based, then crash and make a "second coming" as f2p titles... it has become a business practice. The first "phase" makes investors happy, the second one makes the "publisher/developer" happy. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
216
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 08:41:00 -
[1755] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:I feel like I should say something to help keep the thread going, and support the idea.
But there is nothing left to say. CCP are just going to continue to ignore what people want just like they did pre-incarna. I almost feel that something more radical should happen. Maybe we should publically hang around outside of the new player safe zones and suicide gank their new players in their shiny new cormorants. I imagine doing that for any length of time would hurt sub numbers pretty bad.
Actually doing that will get you banned pretty quick. Thou shalt not intentionally target new players. It's in the rules and if they get so much as a sniff that you're doing it you'll be looking at a temp or perma-ban pretty quickly.
Flamespar wrote:You know looking at those charts, it makes me wonder if themepark games are basically treated as "get rich quick schemes" where investors buy in at the start and start selling their shares just before the predictable crash in subscriptions a couple months after launch.
It's more that building an MMO is hard. Unlike other games MMOs build over time so any older games automatically have an advantage over newer offerings.
A successful MMO can be fantastic for its developers and for the players but if you don't hit just the right mix of "stuff" then your game crashes and burns. The fact that Eve, which was bug filled at launch and overall an extremely ambitious project even by MMO standards, has continued to grow year after year and is still around and growing 10 years later is a testament to CCP as devs and to how solid and appealing the concept of a player-driven world is.
Just look at Everquest NEXT. If you read through the marketing speak it's looking a lot like Fantasy Eve Online with a little Minecraft mixed in.
Shalua Rui wrote:It's not so much theme park's only, but MMO's in general... it's no coincidence that most tripple A MMO's these days start of subscription based, then crash and make a "second coming" as f2p titles... it has become a business practice. The first "phase" makes investors happy, the second one makes the "publisher/developer" happy.
Most MMO's launch pay to play in the hopes of great success. Going F2P is a way to retain numbers and hold onto the small number of people who will pay large amounts of money into the game. Since MMOs are, at their core, a social game it's important to have large numbers of people to populate your world.
Back on topic though, I think there's a lot that could be done with WiS and related development as long as CCP works with the CSM to carefully lay out how they're going to allocate resources to the project and how they're going to pitch it to the player-base.
The first release suffered more from over-hyped expectations on the part of the players and poor collaboration with the CSM more than anything else. If they'd run stuff like their pricing structure past the CSM ahead of time then there would have been no "$70 Monacle" complaints, and they should have been honest about what we could expect from the release, or put off said release until it was more fully featured.
These were two very obvious mistakes in retrospect so it should be fairly easy to avoid repeating them. Not the trick is to find a way to navigate around some of the bad blood still flowing through the player-base over anything to do with WiS... |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
190
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 10:13:00 -
[1756] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Davon Mandra'thin wrote:I feel like I should say something to help keep the thread going, and support the idea.
But there is nothing left to say. CCP are just going to continue to ignore what people want just like they did pre-incarna. I almost feel that something more radical should happen. Maybe we should publically hang around outside of the new player safe zones and suicide gank their new players in their shiny new cormorants. I imagine doing that for any length of time would hurt sub numbers pretty bad. Actually doing that will get you banned pretty quick. Thou shalt not intentionally target new players. It's in the rules and if they get so much as a sniff that you're doing it you'll be looking at a temp or perma-ban pretty quickly.
Last I checked you were only up for a ban if you picked on new players within their entry systems and certain story mission systems. It would be an easy task to list and avoid killing them in any of those systems. Technically you could even kill them en-route. I've highlighted the key text in my original post quoted above. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
797
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 12:59:00 -
[1757] - Quote
Meanwhile Star Citizen devs promised (today) avatar-based exploration: you'll have to search derelict ships and stations for loot instead of just opening container and grabbing content. It seems you'll have to shoot locals (PvE) and other explorers (PvP) in the process.
Sounds familiar - isn't it? It seems someone is making money on CCP's ideas - while CCP is trapped inside their "free content-less expansions" concept. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
909
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 13:01:00 -
[1758] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Meanwhile Star Citizen devs promised (today) avatar-based exploration: you'll have to search derelict ships and stations for loot instead of just opening container and grabbing content. It seems you'll have to shoot locals (PvE) and other explorers (PvP) in the process.
Sounds familiar - isn't it? It seems someone is making money on CCP's ideas - while CCP is trapped inside their "free content-less expansions" concept.
yep they reached the $19m mark and are now aiming for 20 and higher, I see good things in the future of exploration/WiS .. but in SC not Eve =) This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1869
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 13:20:00 -
[1759] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:This goes beyond WiS. It stretches into PvE, hisec content, solo playing and casual friendliness. Oh my, the evil word... I bet Goons all over EVE are breathing into bags just about now... I agree though. EVE is certainly NOT dying, but neither is it growing/inventing itself... all we have is a "future vision" but no real path how to get there... all the while CCP is pouring afford into games that are, while EVE related, not EVE. DUST's integration into the game was a nice idea, but it clearly wasn't the big "industry changer" that CCP thought it would be... not in itself and especially not for EVE, and Valkyrie will be neither. They should take what they learned there and actually put it to use on their main game... you know, the game that kept them alive for 10 years. EVE's spaceship (core) gameplay is strong... I don't think it would be endangered/dumbed down by some "bells and whistles". @ Davon: That's one possibility... and actually a very "EVE'esque" one. ...but I think we should try a less aggressive approach first. Maybe a petition or a Facebook group?
Well, I see EVE more as living out of the larder. Sooner or later, it will need to go foraging or it will starve.
The same 10 old year trick won't convince those who weren't convinced in the last 10 years, but the good news are that EVE's focus on "core" gameplay has left behind an enormous pool of unused possibilities. EVE never tried to have avatars, nor develop some engaging PvE, never has taken hisec seriously, and never attempted to have serious features where devoting 20 x 30 minutes had the same performance as spending 10 hours non-stop.
The list of "things never done" is long for EVE, and so it's full of possibilities once they stop iterating the some old trick. Nullsec stinks. Lowsec is a desert. Wormholes are a niche within a niche. And yet I see more people in local than never before... in hisec.
Doing the same will just attract the same peeople, and in terms of "core" gameplay, that people is quitting the game faster than new recruits are lured to it. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
87
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 13:32:00 -
[1760] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:This Merry-Go-Round topic still active? First it's on, then it's off, then on again, then off. It's a never ending cycle that just keeps going ...... and going ...... and going ...... Sorta like the Energizer Bunny. And wasn't Team Avatar disbanded and it's members placed into other CCP Teams? Now don't get me wrong, the idea of having Avatar game play content is all fine and dandy. The problem is having that content appeal to everyone which isn't gonna happen any time soon. Mainly because everyone has a different interpretation of what that content should entail. DMC
Yes, it's going over and over, and some people still fail to read the first pages of it which contain the CCP Devs' posts. They stated that they already have a finished prototype for EVA gameplay and that its implementation will lay foundations for station social areas. I agree that the content delivered will not appeal to everyone, but hey, that's bound to happen anytime you want to expand the game. Some people will like it, others won't. Some will initially hate it and then love it and vice-versa. This shouldn't and surely won't stop them from working on and delivering it though, which I belive will happen as soon as those guys come back to work on EVE and the major spaceship and core gameplay issues are dealt with.
Shalua Rui wrote: Also: As long as there is oxygen, there can be fire, so stations CAN burn from the inside... if not for very long.
As long as there's oxigen there can be fire. That's true. So that means stations can burn in the inside (with different fires than you have here on earth due to different gravity and air compositions) and not "from the inside". You're ignoring that space is a vaccum environment, and that once the station has a breach, any pressurized oxigen contained in that area will be sucked outside and any fire that could be blazing inside will immediately extiguish due to the lack of comburent for oxidation. The same goes for any explosion or fire that could be created with an impact of a ship on the same station. Burning will not occur in vaccum environment.
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:I feel like I should say something to help keep the thread going, and support the idea.
But there is nothing left to say. CCP are just going to continue to ignore what people want just like they did pre-incarna. I almost feel that something more radical should happen. Maybe we should publically hang around outside of the new player safe zones and suicide gank their new players in their shiny new cormorants. I imagine doing that for any length of time would hurt sub numbers pretty bad.
I think maybe you guys who're suggesting petitions and stuff are maybe trying to create a storm in a cup of water. I know you're probably as pessimistic as I am but also think we should give them the benefit of doubt and wait to see what they'll deliver in the next 1-2 years.
|
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
275
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 16:20:00 -
[1761] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Meanwhile Star Citizen devs promised (today) avatar-based exploration: you'll have to search derelict ships and stations for loot instead of just opening container and grabbing content. It seems you'll have to shoot locals (PvE) and other explorers (PvP) in the process.
Sounds familiar - isn't it? It seems someone is making money on CCP's ideas - while CCP is trapped inside their "free content-less expansions" concept.
Sue them.
CCP was not first there to be honest. They just plan to combine lot of features in SC, something for everybody. There surely were people that were dissapointed with EVE, so they throwed money somewhere else. This is BUZNISS.
What's left for us... New CQ prototype |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
190
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:29:00 -
[1762] - Quote
raven666wings wrote: I think maybe you guys who're suggesting petitions and stuff are maybe trying to create a storm in a cup of water. I know you're probably as pessimistic as I am but also think we should give them the benefit of doubt and wait to see what they'll deliver in the next 1-2 years.
I won't be waiting 1-2 years. If the next expansion is crap my alts and I are out. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
87
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:37:00 -
[1763] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote: I won't be waiting 1-2 years. If the next expansion is crap my alts and I are out.
I don't blame you. And I think you aren't the only one. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20865
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:41:00 -
[1764] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:CCP was not first there to be honest. They just plan to combine lot of features in SC, something for everybody. There surely were people that were dissapointed with EVE, so they throwed money somewhere else. This is BUZNISS. Sad but true... and I always liked Chris Roberts games and, most likely, will play SC too... just didn't back it.
Nobody asked CCP to stuff money into their console-pew-pew-game and sell themself to Sony... I know, that's not really how it went down, but it kinda feels like it. I was really annoyed when they moved all their focus on DUST in Fanfest 11 and 12, but I thought: Give them time, that's their hot new vision... well, now it is there, and it is yet another game with huge potential and no real content in sight yet... I really hope we start seeing some innovation again soon. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1052
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 18:58:00 -
[1765] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Now now... that's neither a "botting" nor an "EVE is dying" thread. I know DMC, but showing support and collecting ideas for the (from what we know) future gameplay that might come to EVE is still a good thing, in my opinion. True, EVE has many problems in the spaceship department, still... but laying a solide groundwork for WiS now would be as good as a time as any... and it would bring new subscriptions, if only from people curious about the new stuff.
A lot of WIS threads with good and bad ideas and the support ,you are speaking of, are made and closed the last couple of years. This one stays open for some strange reason .So i understand why DMC is talking like that. R.S.I2014
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1052
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:02:00 -
[1766] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:CCP was not first there to be honest. They just plan to combine lot of features in SC, something for everybody. There surely were people that were dissapointed with EVE, so they throwed money somewhere else. This is BUZNISS. Sad but true... and I always liked Chris Roberts games and, most likely, will play SC too... just didn't back it. Nobody asked CCP to stuff money into their console-pew-pew-game and sell themself to Sony... I know, that's not really how it went down, but it kinda feels like it. I was really annoyed when they moved all their focus on DUST in Fanfest 11 and 12, but I thought: Give them time, that's their hot new vision... well, now it is there, and it is yet another game with huge potential and no real content in sight yet... I really hope we start seeing some innovation again soon.
How much of the so much needed re balancing stuff ,UI overhaul and new space graphics would be done by now if that Dustcrap did not exist.
R.S.I2014
|
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance
223
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:13:00 -
[1767] - Quote
I pay to play EVE in a realm that suits my chosen platform, the PC.
Dust was never originally sold to us as a PS3 only exclusive, this project had great promise for the EVE PC client but then, as usual, CCP flips the script on us and the people that did care, knew that this was an ego play for CCP and just let it go. There was never much EVE side support for DUST after the PS3 only announcement. As far as I am concerned, MISSED opportunity for a real expansion. DUST could have been something you left your ship to do in the EVE client.
Dock ship Enter Captains Quarters Walk to War Room Ready / Choose battle equipment (armor/weapons) Walk to Strategic room Choose loadouts for vehicles and such, emote a bro a quick high-five while waiting for match to start Match timer expires and you load into DUST FPS / Planet environment
And this is how it should have been. So what's next? Valkyrie? Cool! Now watch Valkyrie too become a DUST version for Space Dog fighting Simulation. Something only a handful of hardcore gamers will use before they leave for better games suited to meet their needs, longterm.
So what CCP should have been doing before Star Citizen even was an issue, was what people have been telling them to do for years and that we all knew was going to happen. Get to it before someone else does and Get to it the right way.
It is not too late for CCP to redirect their efforts to FUNDAMENTALS. Stop trying to be cutting edge. Make industry history with your best working model. Polish, expand (for real, as in creative content), polish, fix and expand some more. Integrate DUST into your PC/EVE client so we can literally go from ship to planet in a matter of a few simple steps adding to a more immersing experience. Valkyrie? Fine, make it friendly to those who enjoy space dogfighting simulations without 3D (some people have health issues with 3D), so that ALL of your PAYING customers can experience Valkyrie by loading into someones carrier and using your fighters to shoot down other fighters, during live, real, EVE cap ship battles.
Doing things like PS3 exclusive and 3D Occulus support only type of design not only alienates your current paying customers but segregates your gameplay to other niches which takes away from your overall gaming community for your products.
This is not hard CCP, your lack of direction and implementation of creativity seems to be for you. I'm happy with the progress EVE has made, I'm not happy with the missed opportunity with DUST, the avatar shelved projects, and I'm not happy that Valkyrie will turn out to be one awesomely half-ass'edly implemented idea.
This is not an ETRADE portfolio and EVE is your only egg. The players have shared a wealth of ideas with you for gameplay content and expansions that actually add to the game. Not Patchspansions where all you do is tweak a few things here and there, move this here and move this there and call it done. You have some very bored programmers. I can tell by how painstakingly obvious it is that someone switched around our skills list. How annoying was it to find Mechanics after that publish? Answer: MORE ANNOYING THAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN! lol
Please CCP, listen to those who are sharing creative ideas with you. It's FREE and we are paying YOU to listen.
As others have said, you cannot make everyone happy. But if you choose not make one party happy, you'd better replace it with something epic. This game is truly getting stagnate. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
190
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:13:00 -
[1768] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: How much of the so much needed re balancing stuff ,UI overhaul and new space graphics would be done by now if that Dustcrap did not exist.
Sad, cynical and also true. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1872
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:21:00 -
[1769] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Meanwhile Star Citizen devs promised (today) avatar-based exploration: you'll have to search derelict ships and stations for loot instead of just opening container and grabbing content. It seems you'll have to shoot locals (PvE) and other explorers (PvP) in the process.
Sounds familiar - isn't it? It seems someone is making money on CCP's ideas - while CCP is trapped inside their "free content-less expansions" concept.
If Chris Roberts adds to his avatar content knee boots, low necks and mini skirts, and a chance to show them off, I'm gonna throw 50 euros more his way.
(But then, SC is a boyz game... so far) The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Elizabeth Brown
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:24:00 -
[1770] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote: I won't be waiting 1-2 years. If the next expansion is crap my alts and I are out.
Pretty much this. I'm not just jumping on the un-sub bandwagon... I genuinely don't care to keep my sub going if the next expansion is as big a pile of crap as Odyssey was. This isn't just about WiS either. Sure, I would really really really like some WiS content but I understand it's difficult to deliver good content of that level... but the last couple of expansions have been seriously lacking and won't put up with another batch of patches that wont affect me. |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1872
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:28:00 -
[1771] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:CCP was not first there to be honest. They just plan to combine lot of features in SC, something for everybody. There surely were people that were dissapointed with EVE, so they throwed money somewhere else. This is BUZNISS. Sad but true... and I always liked Chris Roberts games and, most likely, will play SC too... just didn't back it. Nobody asked CCP to stuff money into their console-pew-pew-game and sell themself to Sony... I know, that's not really how it went down, but it kinda feels like it. I was really annoyed when they moved all their focus on DUST in Fanfest 11 and 12, but I thought: Give them time, that's their hot new vision... well, now it is there, and it is yet another game with huge potential and no real content in sight yet... I really hope we start seeing some innovation again soon.
I've sworn myself to never mix the concepts "DUST 514" and "opportunity cost" -my liver wouldn't stand it.
My autosuggestion lives in a place where DUST 514 has been developed solely and exclusively with Dust514orite, a magical gemstone which never, ever, under no circunstance, could had been used to develop anything else.
Specially nothing implying bipedal ambulation.
And specially NOT in EVE.
*ommmmm* The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Elizabeth Brown
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:37:00 -
[1772] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:My autosuggestion lives in a place where DUST 514 has been developed solely and exclusively with Dust514orite, a magical gemstone which never, ever, under no circunstance, could had been used to develop anything else.
Ignorance is bliss right? |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1872
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:44:00 -
[1773] - Quote
Elizabeth Brown wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:My autosuggestion lives in a place where DUST 514 has been developed solely and exclusively with Dust514orite, a magical gemstone which never, ever, under no circunstance, could had been used to develop anything else. Ignorance is bliss right?
Sometimes one must just not think of what one shall not think.
FAI, CCP took a 20 million USD loan to launch DUST 514. I just autosuggest myself:
*ommmm*
And it becomes: CCP took a 20 million DUST514orites loan to launch DUST 514.
And, do you see? My heartbeat is steady as a rock.
*ommmm* The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1053
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 20:41:00 -
[1774] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Elizabeth Brown wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:My autosuggestion lives in a place where DUST 514 has been developed solely and exclusively with Dust514orite, a magical gemstone which never, ever, under no circunstance, could had been used to develop anything else. Ignorance is bliss right? Sometimes one must just not think of what one shall not think. FAI, CCP took a 20 million USD loan to launch DUST 514. I just autosuggest myself: *ommmm* And it becomes: CCP took a 20 million DUST514orites loan to launch DUST 514. And, do you see? My heartbeat is steady as a rock. *ommmm*
CCP Had to loan 20 million?For Dust? oh my.........
Well ,they could ask Chris Roberts and ......... R.S.I2014
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1873
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 20:52:00 -
[1775] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Elizabeth Brown wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:My autosuggestion lives in a place where DUST 514 has been developed solely and exclusively with Dust514orite, a magical gemstone which never, ever, under no circunstance, could had been used to develop anything else. Ignorance is bliss right? Sometimes one must just not think of what one shall not think. FAI, CCP took a 20 million USD loan to launch DUST 514. I just autosuggest myself: *ommmm* And it becomes: CCP took a 20 million DUST514orites loan to launch DUST 514. And, do you see? My heartbeat is steady as a rock. *ommmm* CCP Had to loan 20 million?For Dust? oh my......... Well ,they could ask Chris Roberts and .........
The loan was for the launch & release campaign, actually. Development cost is an unknown amount of DUST514orites.
But then, what else could they have...? Err... excuse me...
*ommmm* The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1823
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 20:56:00 -
[1776] - Quote
I see a few people have jumped on the un-subbing train. Just popping in to let you know that I beat you to it. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20866
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 22:26:00 -
[1777] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I see a few people have jumped on the un-subbing train. Just popping in to let you know that I beat you to it. Well, right now, I'm far from unsubbing... but then again, I can afford one game I don't actually play, no? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Loch Bannon
Deadman W0nderland Forsak3n.
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 22:48:00 -
[1778] - Quote
I can't say that I'd climb aboard the unsub wagon if Avatar play never came to pass. I CAN however say that if quality gameplay were offered in this department, I would personally add another account or two here. Especially if I knew that both aspects of play tied into each other. Why pay elsewhere if you can do it all from one game. Just my two cents, but why be not be THE game to play rather than A game to play? "I fly from an 'od'. -áThere is no 'pee' in it, let's keep it that way." --Lochness
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
708
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 23:35:00 -
[1779] - Quote
At the moment I have a 12 month subscription that I won't be renewing unless CCP announces something for WiS that isn't clothing related. I'm talking actual gameplay folks.
It's not a rage quit thing, it's more of a "well EVE isn't fulfilling it's promises, so I'll go play something else".
Meanwhile Star Citizen keeps looking better and better. Salvaging derelicts? Shame CCP can't follow through on it's awesome ideas. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
284
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 03:42:00 -
[1780] - Quote
arcca jeth wrote:I pay to play EVE in a realm that suits my chosen platform, the PC.
Dust was never originally sold to us as a PS3 only exclusive, this project had great promise for the EVE PC client but then, as usual, CCP flips the script on us and the people that did care, knew that this was an ego play for CCP and just let it go. There was never much EVE side support for DUST after the PS3 only announcement. As far as I am concerned, MISSED opportunity for a real expansion. DUST could have been something you left your ship to do in the EVE client.
Dock ship Enter Captains Quarters Walk to War Room Ready / Choose battle equipment (armor/weapons) Walk to Strategic room Choose loadouts for vehicles and such, emote a bro a quick high-five while waiting for match to start Match timer expires and you load into DUST FPS / Planet environment
And this is how it should have been. So what's next? Valkyrie? Cool! Now watch Valkyrie too become a DUST version for Space Dog fighting Simulation. Something only a handful of hardcore gamers will use before they leave for better games suited to meet their needs, longterm.
So what CCP should have been doing before Star Citizen even was an issue, was what people have been telling them to do for years and that we all knew was going to happen. Get to it before someone else does and Get to it the right way.
It is not too late for CCP to redirect their efforts to FUNDAMENTALS. Stop trying to be cutting edge. Make industry history with your best working model. Polish, expand (for real, as in creative content), polish, fix and expand some more. Integrate DUST into your PC/EVE client so we can literally go from ship to planet in a matter of a few simple steps adding to a more immersing experience. Valkyrie? Fine, make it friendly to those who enjoy space dogfighting simulations without 3D (some people have health issues with 3D), so that ALL of your PAYING customers can experience Valkyrie by loading into someones carrier and using your fighters to shoot down other fighters, during live, real, EVE cap ship battles.
Doing things like PS3 exclusive and 3D Occulus support only type of design not only alienates your current paying customers but segregates your gameplay to other niches which takes away from your overall gaming community for your products.
This is not hard CCP, your lack of direction and implementation of creativity seems to be for you. I'm happy with the progress EVE has made, I'm not happy with the missed opportunity with DUST, the avatar shelved projects, and I'm not happy that Valkyrie will turn out to be one awesomely half-ass'edly implemented idea.
This is not an ETRADE portfolio and EVE is your only egg. The players have shared a wealth of ideas with you for gameplay content and expansions that actually add to the game. Not Patchspansions where all you do is tweak a few things here and there, move this here and move this there and call it done. You have some very bored programmers. I can tell by how painstakingly obvious it is that someone switched around our skills list. How annoying was it to find Mechanics after that publish? Answer: MORE ANNOYING THAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN! lol
Please CCP, listen to those who are sharing creative ideas with you. It's FREE and we are paying YOU to listen.
As others have said, you cannot make everyone happy. But if you choose not make one party happy, you'd better replace it with something epic. This game is truly getting stagnate. +1
Got tired of saying for the last few years, glad someone else is trying to get them to,listen.
Dont get your hopes up btw. They just dont seem to give a ****.
|
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
213
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 05:12:00 -
[1781] - Quote
I have given MWO about a years subscription worth of money thus far, for vanity items and "p2w" (not really p2w because hero mechs generally actually suck), this money could have been yours CCP if you just gave me something worthwhile to spend it on. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1875
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 06:45:00 -
[1782] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I see a few people have jumped on the un-subbing train. Just popping in to let you know that I beat you to it.
Well, I haven't had any recurring subscription for almost a year. This account is running on a return offer of 55 euros for 6 months, that's a bit more than 9 euros per month and looks like a good deal in terms of game value. It's gonna last until December 13th.
What will happen next, i can't tell because it depends on CCP, the winter expansion, and the Hallellujah Plan. I have a sitting PLEX on my alt account and may fire it sooner than later, and albeit I am running **** poor lvl2 and lvl3s I've got some pocket to buy another PLEX for Ish if I need the time to flog CCP a bit more.
In terms of unsubs, the real deal is what will CCP do to retain everyone who would rather play SC in the event that SC actually delivers. And certainly the derelict exploration looks like it's stepping on CCP's toes... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1823
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 06:54:00 -
[1783] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Arduemont wrote:I see a few people have jumped on the un-subbing train. Just popping in to let you know that I beat you to it. In terms of unsubs, the real deal is what will CCP do to retain everyone who would rather play SC in the event that SC actually delivers. And certainly the derelict exploration looks like it's stepping on CCP's toes...
I don't think they'll do anything. The sceptic in me says they will release nothing interesting and subs will fall this coming expansion. With the massive sub raise after Retribution they will still probably be up from the year before, but that's a lot of wasted potential. That said, if this next expansion is crap and so are the next two, then I image CCP will see a lower total subs than the year before scenario. A first for CCP.
In all likelihood, they will pull something out of the bag within the next year and a half, but at the moment I am not convinced. The Marauder changes sound very interesting, sure... A little bit more than just balancing I guess, but I don't fly Marauders and have no intention of doing so just because they're changing. We'll get some idea of what is coming trickle through sooner rather than later hopefully. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
46
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 08:47:00 -
[1784] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:arcca jeth wrote:I pay to play EVE in a realm that suits my chosen platform, the PC.
Dust was never originally sold to us as a PS3 only exclusive, this project had great promise for the EVE PC client but then, as usual, CCP flips the script on us and the people that did care, knew that this was an ego play for CCP and just let it go. There was never much EVE side support for DUST after the PS3 only announcement. As far as I am concerned, MISSED opportunity for a real expansion. DUST could have been something you left your ship to do in the EVE client.
Dock ship Enter Captains Quarters Walk to War Room Ready / Choose battle equipment (armor/weapons) Walk to Strategic room Choose loadouts for vehicles and such, emote a bro a quick high-five while waiting for match to start Match timer expires and you load into DUST FPS / Planet environment
And this is how it should have been. So what's next? Valkyrie? Cool! Now watch Valkyrie too become a DUST version for Space Dog fighting Simulation. Something only a handful of hardcore gamers will use before they leave for better games suited to meet their needs, longterm.
So what CCP should have been doing before Star Citizen even was an issue, was what people have been telling them to do for years and that we all knew was going to happen. Get to it before someone else does and Get to it the right way.
It is not too late for CCP to redirect their efforts to FUNDAMENTALS. Stop trying to be cutting edge. Make industry history with your best working model. Polish, expand (for real, as in creative content), polish, fix and expand some more. Integrate DUST into your PC/EVE client so we can literally go from ship to planet in a matter of a few simple steps adding to a more immersing experience. Valkyrie? Fine, make it friendly to those who enjoy space dogfighting simulations without 3D (some people have health issues with 3D), so that ALL of your PAYING customers can experience Valkyrie by loading into someones carrier and using your fighters to shoot down other fighters, during live, real, EVE cap ship battles.
Doing things like PS3 exclusive and 3D Occulus support only type of design not only alienates your current paying customers but segregates your gameplay to other niches which takes away from your overall gaming community for your products.
This is not hard CCP, your lack of direction and implementation of creativity seems to be for you. I'm happy with the progress EVE has made, I'm not happy with the missed opportunity with DUST, the avatar shelved projects, and I'm not happy that Valkyrie will turn out to be one awesomely half-ass'edly implemented idea.
This is not an ETRADE portfolio and EVE is your only egg. The players have shared a wealth of ideas with you for gameplay content and expansions that actually add to the game. Not Patchspansions where all you do is tweak a few things here and there, move this here and move this there and call it done. You have some very bored programmers. I can tell by how painstakingly obvious it is that someone switched around our skills list. How annoying was it to find Mechanics after that publish? Answer: MORE ANNOYING THAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN! lol
Please CCP, listen to those who are sharing creative ideas with you. It's FREE and we are paying YOU to listen.
As others have said, you cannot make everyone happy. But if you choose not make one party happy, you'd better replace it with something epic. This game is truly getting stagnate. +1 Got tired of saying for the last few years, glad someone else is trying to get them to,listen. Dont get your hopes up btw. They just dont seem to give a ****. + 1 V |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20867
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 09:31:00 -
[1785] - Quote
Well, CCP tried to expand their universe... to a new audience, new system, new technology... that vision! Alas, as other companies already had to learn the hard (expensive) way, the market just isn't right for that yet. If you you want to be too visionery, you end up alienating your customers. They tried to make the EVE community bigger and ended up fracturing it... I hope they realize that, and soon... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1169
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 12:00:00 -
[1786] - Quote
Confirming a room to sit in is "visionary".
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
87
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 13:45:00 -
[1787] - Quote
inb4 RSI delivers the universe CCP wanted to deliver but only better (running on a single graphic engine and PC platform) while CCP keeps rubbing their CCPeen to "single shard universes" and "2000 player battles" (while running 3 games on 3 different engines and platforms and watching the other 80% of their playerbase who don't engage in time-dilated blobs unsub and go play SC). |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
275
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 13:53:00 -
[1788] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Confirming a room to sit in is "visionary".
Now it sounded like a complete ignorance, posting something like that in the topic where future of exploration was discussed just from the beginning, and even prototype was showed in you tube. New CQ prototype |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
917
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 15:08:00 -
[1789] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:inb4 RSI delivers the universe CCP wanted to deliver but only better (running on a single graphic engine and PC platform) while CCP keeps rubbing their CCPeen to "single shard universes" and "2000 player battles" (while running 3 games on 3 different engines and platforms and watching the other 80% of their playerbase who don't engage in time-dilated blobs unsub and go play SC).
ye, I've never seen a 2000 player battle directly, just on youtube. Now if only it actually looked like the cgi battles they have on several of their trailer videos, but noooo its a bunch of blue and red squares at max zoomout that is quite the opposite of exciting. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20901
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 15:15:00 -
[1790] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Confirming a room to sit in is "visionary". Written like a person with no vision what so ever... or a lazy troll. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 15:25:00 -
[1791] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:inb4 RSI delivers the universe CCP wanted to deliver but only better (running on a single graphic engine and PC platform) while CCP keeps rubbing their CCPeen to "single shard universes" and "2000 player battles" (while running 3 games on 3 different engines and platforms and watching the other 80% of their playerbase who don't engage in time-dilated blobs unsub and go play SC).
What color is the sky in the universe you live in?
Do you sometimes leave your home while wearing aluminum foil headgear?
Do you have a prescription for the drugs you are taking?
Do you have a newsletter that like-minded zealots can subscribe to? GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
330
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 15:30:00 -
[1792] - Quote
While people might leave due to a lack of avatar gaming, it will be spun that the old sov rules still in place is the reason people are leaving - bored null security pilots. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
88
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 16:17:00 -
[1793] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote: ye, I've never seen a 2000 player battle directly, just on youtube. Now if only it actually looked like the cgi battles they have on several of their trailer videos, but noooo its a bunch of blue and red squares at max zoomout that is quite the opposite of exciting.
Lol yep little squares and spreadsheets in space, being painted in trailers as graphically appealing and visceral gameplay. What SC is gonna deliver ingame is what EVE pretends to be in trailers. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
217
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 16:46:00 -
[1794] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Last I checked you were only up for a ban if you picked on new players within their entry systems and certain story mission systems. It would be an easy task to list and avoid killing them in any of those systems. Technically you could even kill them en-route. I've highlighted the key text in my original post quoted above.
Actually it's been stated, repeatedly, that specifically targeting new players is an actionable offense (I believe there was a thread on this recently). While ganking in the starting systems is an offense period. If they determine that you're specifically targeting new players they will drop the hammer pretty damn quick.
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:This thread is basically a petition, and every thread created after it is (which are quickly closed because they're duplicates). CCP isn't going to pay any attention to a player made Facebook page. Something has to happen that they will notice, something which will affect them. Something in-game. I'm not necessarily saying we should just start mass suicide ganking new players, but something needs to happen. Something that other players will want to join in with.
The best thing we can do is show that there's enthusiasm for this type of gameplay in the Eve community. We don't need to start lighting stuff on fire to get CCP's attention, if you want to help the ball keep rolling then ping the CSM, if only to let them know that there is definitely interest in this sort of content.
Lipbite wrote:Meanwhile Star Citizen devs promised (today) avatar-based exploration: you'll have to search derelict ships and stations for loot instead of just opening container and grabbing content. It seems you'll have to shoot locals (PvE) and other explorers (PvP) in the process.
Sounds familiar - isn't it? It seems someone is making money on CCP's ideas - while CCP is trapped inside their "free content-less expansions" concept.
Star Citizen has promised a lot of things and currently they have a frack-ton of money to do it with (especially when you consider they don't really need a marketing budget at this point).
Color me just a little bit skeptical if they're actually going to be able to deliver everything they've promised though. And I certainly wouldn't expect Eve scale space-battles out of them.
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:How much of the so much needed re balancing stuff ,UI overhaul and new space graphics would be done by now if that Dustcrap did not exist.
Exactly as much as has been done. Dust 514 is its own game with its own team and its own profits. They wouldn't have been able to justify hiring new people for Dust without Dust to finance those new people. Hence why when CCP announced they were moving people off of WoD they had to let a lot of those people go. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
217
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 17:05:00 -
[1795] - Quote
arcca jeth wrote:I pay to play EVE in a realm that suits my chosen platform, the PC.
Dust was never originally sold to us as a PS3 only exclusive, this project had great promise for the EVE PC client but then, as usual, CCP flips the script on us and the people that did care, knew that this was an ego play for CCP and just let it go. There was never much EVE side support for DUST after the PS3 only announcement. As far as I am concerned, MISSED opportunity for a real expansion. DUST could have been something you left your ship to do in the EVE client.
Dock ship Enter Captains Quarters Walk to War Room Ready / Choose battle equipment (armor/weapons) Walk to Strategic room Choose loadouts for vehicles and such, emote a bro a quick high-five while waiting for match to start Match timer expires and you load into DUST FPS / Planet environment
Which would made the whole project more technically challenging to develop and restricted them to whatever overlap there is between the shooter market and the Eve market, plus restricted them on how they developed the Dust gameplay, level progression and a dozen other things.
Dust was never going to be part of the Eve client and it never should be.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a PC port, but consoles are a LOT easier to develop for than the PC since you're hitting a single hardware configuration.
Plus from a financial standpoint it makes sense to go where your customers are and the console shooter market is pretty big.
arcca jeth wrote:And this is how it should have been. So what's next? Valkyrie? Cool! Now watch Valkyrie too become a DUST version for Space Dog fighting Simulation. Something only a handful of hardcore gamers will use before they leave for better games suited to meet their needs, longterm.
So? It's a fun prototype that was popular enough to get its own little team, we don't even know details beyond "it's an expansion of that cool thing from Fanfest" and you're making over-reaching predictions about its long-term success?
arcca jeth wrote:So what CCP should have been doing before Star Citizen even was an issue, was what people have been telling them to do for years and that we all knew was going to happen. Get to it before someone else does and Get to it the right way.
It is not too late for CCP to redirect their efforts to FUNDAMENTALS. Stop trying to be cutting edge. Make industry history with your best working model. Polish, expand (for real, as in creative content), polish, fix and expand some more. Integrate DUST into your PC/EVE client so we can literally go from ship to planet in a matter of a few simple steps adding to a more immersing experience. Valkyrie? Fine, make it friendly to those who enjoy space dogfighting simulations without 3D (some people have health issues with 3D), so that ALL of your PAYING customers can experience Valkyrie by loading into someones carrier and using your fighters to shoot down other fighters, during live, real, EVE cap ship battles.
Star Citizen isn't due for a full release until 2015 and that's assuming nothing gets pushed, ever (and their release schedule looks just a touch ambitious) meaning Star Citizen will release in... about 4 Eve expansions. Color me unconcerned.
Again, problems with integrating one market with another. Also the Eve client doesn't do real-time hit detection for a reason. That would be a horrible lag-machine and people would probably prefer that their Fighters do consistent DPS rather than handing them over to a squad of scrubs who would be better served participating in ships rather than flying around with the Oculus Rift.
arcca jeth wrote:This is not an ETRADE portfolio and EVE is your only egg. The players have shared a wealth of ideas with you for gameplay content and expansions that actually add to the game. Not Patchspansions where all you do is tweak a few things here and there, move this here and move this there and call it done. You have some very bored programmers. I can tell by how painstakingly obvious it is that someone switched around our skills list. How annoying was it to find Mechanics after that publish? Answer: MORE ANNOYING THAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN! lol
Please CCP, listen to those who are sharing creative ideas with you. It's FREE and we are paying YOU to listen.
As others have said, you cannot make everyone happy. But if you choose not make one party happy, you'd better replace it with something epic. This game is truly getting stagnate.
So, there's a bit of a difference between a Game Developer and a Programmer. For one, a programmer is not the person who reworked the skill names, that would probably be one or more gameplay designers who wanted to make the game more intuitive for new people (you know, the people who let Eve keep growing as people like you rage-quit).
There's also this thing where development takes time and the more ambitious the feature is the more time it takes. This was sort of the original problem with WiS and why it took so long to develop and still wasn't finished. The game needs polishing which means less new features. New features also will need polishing and will introduce bugs and problems and all that other fun stuff which will need to be fixed.
Also you're not paying CCP to listen to your ranting, you're paying them to play the game. It is in CCP's best interests to listen to the player-base and make decisions based on their feedback, but they are not required to listen to your ranting any more than they're required to jump when you yell jump. CCP aren't going to listen to bad or non-viable ideas no matter how loudly you yell.
Oh, funny fact, when there's new content people yell for polish, when there's polish people yell for new content... |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
88
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 17:09:00 -
[1796] - Quote
inb4 CCP tries to hire Roberts to unbork EVE. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
217
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 17:22:00 -
[1797] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Sometimes one must just not think of what one shall not think.
FAI, CCP took a 20 million USD loan to launch DUST 514. I just autosuggest myself:
*ommmm*
And it becomes: CCP took a 20 million DUST514orites loan to launch DUST 514.
And, do you see? My heartbeat is steady as a rock.
*ommmm*
CCP Had to loan 20 million?For Dust? oh my......... Well ,they could ask Chris Roberts and .........
ITT we learn that game development is expensive
Flamespar wrote:At the moment I have a 12 month subscription that I won't be renewing unless CCP announces something for WiS that isn't clothing related. I'm talking actual gameplay folks.
It's not a rage quit thing, it's more of a "well EVE isn't fulfilling it's promises, so I'll go play something else".
Meanwhile Star Citizen keeps looking better and better. Salvaging derelicts? Shame CCP can't follow through on it's awesome ideas.
I'd give it another 12 months past that if you're leaving for Star Citizen. Their current release schedule has a full release sometime in 2015 or so for the persistent world. That's about 2 years out and some of their other release dates look pretty ambitious which likely means things will slip in the long-term.
---
So, yeah, overall game development is really expensive and time consuming, which means if you want really good content you have to wait for it. If you try and push too much out the door all at once then you end up with crap (which is why Star Citizen's release schedule has me worried).
Fundamental rule of game development:
Quote:Any decision or change that you make will anger some part of your player-base, including the decision to change nothing. |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 17:51:00 -
[1798] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:In terms of unsubs, the real deal is what will CCP do to retain everyone who would rather play SC in the event that SC actually delivers. And certainly the derelict exploration looks like it's stepping on CCP's toes...
I dont see how it can be considered stepping on CCP's toes when CCP hasn't actually done it yet. Would be a bit childish of them to say "But..but.. we thought of it first :("
SC has announced support for the Oculus Rift. Is that also stepping on CCP's toes?
I mean cmon people, in SC you have a game that will have all the playstyles CCP has split into three different games all wrapped up on one nice little package.
EVE has been in 'maintain' mode for a while now, SC has peoples attention, and some of my money, money that was being spent on alts, but was removed when they made it very clear they wre'nt actually expanding EVE anymore.
CCP has had plenty of opportunity to spend my money, but now I think it's time for me to give it to someone else and see if they will deliver on their promises. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20907
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 17:54:00 -
[1799] - Quote
There also is this game... say whatever you will, but EVE's "niche" will get a whole lot tighter in the next couple of years. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 18:02:00 -
[1800] - Quote
When SC has failed to destroy EVE or deliver a comparable playable game 12 months from now, will the SC zealots be crying about that failure here, or on the SC forums?
I thought espousing EVE's demise using CCP's forums was considered rumor mongering.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
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Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1827
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 18:11:00 -
[1801] - Quote
handbanana wrote:When SC has failed to destroy EVE or deliver a comparable playable game 12 months from now, will the SC zealots be crying about that failure here, or on the SC forums?
I thought espousing EVE's demise using CCP's forums was considered rumor mongering.
I don't think SC will make Eve players drop subs. I think CCP are more than capable enough of making people want to quit without outside influence.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
90
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 18:12:00 -
[1802] - Quote
I can see the appeal of writing walls of text talking down on better competition, in lack of real arguments of course. |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 18:28:00 -
[1803] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:handbanana wrote:When SC has failed to destroy EVE or deliver a comparable playable game 12 months from now, will the SC zealots be crying about that failure here, or on the SC forums?
I thought espousing EVE's demise using CCP's forums was considered rumor mongering.
I don't think SC will make Eve players drop subs. I think CCP are more than capable enough of making people want to quit without outside influence.
No argument here. CCP is CCP's worst enemy.
I find it amusing however that in a thread intended to promote "WIS" the same people supposedly promoting it and wanting CCP's serious attention are also shatting it up by promoting an unreleased game and espousing it will cause CCP's demise. GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
90
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 18:34:00 -
[1804] - Quote
No matter how harsh reality can be sometimes, one is better off accepting and dealing with it instead of entering a denial spiral while sticking the head on the floor like an ostrich. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
275
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 18:50:00 -
[1805] - Quote
In before lock for promoting other games. New CQ prototype |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
90
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 18:53:00 -
[1806] - Quote
Lol inb4 lock for rumor mongering/futorology/psychiatric evaluations |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1054
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 19:01:00 -
[1807] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Arduemont wrote:handbanana wrote:When SC has failed to destroy EVE or deliver a comparable playable game 12 months from now, will the SC zealots be crying about that failure here, or on the SC forums?
I thought espousing EVE's demise using CCP's forums was considered rumor mongering.
I don't think SC will make Eve players drop subs. I think CCP are more than capable enough of making people want to quit without outside influence. No argument here. CCP is CCP's worst enemy. I find it amusing however that in a thread intended to promote "WIS" the same people supposedly promoting it and wanting CCP's serious attention are also shatting it up by promoting an unreleased game and espousing it will cause CCP's demise.
Who knows how SC turns out ,but they deliver something CCP promised to this game. And after that ,promised to work on a prototype,but supposedly not allowed to show that to the community.
And besides if Chris Roberts deliver half the stuff he promised ,that game will rock And if not ,we wait a bit more for the real honest game developer R.S.I2014
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1054
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 19:08:00 -
[1808] - Quote
handbanana wrote:When SC has failed to destroy EVE or deliver a comparable playable game 12 months from now, will the SC zealots be crying about that failure here, or on the SC forums?
I thought espousing EVE's demise using CCP's forums was considered rumor mongering.
Well we learned rumor mongering from all the promises CCP made the last few years . So if CCP can ,why not us? R.S.I2014
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1880
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 19:46:00 -
[1809] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Arduemont wrote:handbanana wrote:When SC has failed to destroy EVE or deliver a comparable playable game 12 months from now, will the SC zealots be crying about that failure here, or on the SC forums?
I thought espousing EVE's demise using CCP's forums was considered rumor mongering.
I don't think SC will make Eve players drop subs. I think CCP are more than capable enough of making people want to quit without outside influence. No argument here. CCP is CCP's worst enemy. I find it amusing however that in a thread intended to promote "WIS" the same people supposedly promoting it and wanting CCP's serious attention are also shatting it up by promoting an unreleased game and espousing it will cause CCP's demise.
Have you heard about carrot and stick? Now this thread is in a stick phase, and before it was in a carrot phase, and then after the stick phase ends it will be back to carrot phase. Positive incentive and negative incentive work together.
And with all that I've comitted to this game, I surely want it to stay alive, but not to the cost of effing my dreams based on their promises. For 5 years, they worked and teased us on taking the game to its logical next level. Now they've not just failed miserably out of arrogance, but also are not even talking about trying, and meanwhile others are picking the ball they dropped.
And this time it's not some Asian P2W second rate space shooter, but a AAA game by a man who already knew his trade when CCP was in college. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
218
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 20:07:00 -
[1810] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:There also is this game... say whatever you will, but EVE's "niche" will get a whole lot tighter in the next couple of years.
Smaller budget, also still in development and not releasing till sometime in 2014 (at the earliest). Also unlikely to be on the same scale of universe as Eve.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And this time it's not some Asian P2W second rate space shooter, but a AAA game by a man who already knew his trade when CCP was in college.
And has also never done an MMO on the scale he's promising before. Freelancer gets filed under "close but no cigar" in the MMO department and while it was a good game the initial scope was overly ambitious and the final product was a scaled down version of his initial promises.
Soulpirate wrote:I mean cmon people, in SC you have a game that will have all the playstyles CCP has split into three different games all wrapped up in one nice little package.
EVE has been in 'maintain' mode for a while now, SC has peoples attention, and some of my money, money that was being spent on alts, but was removed when they made it very clear they were'nt actually expanding EVE anymore.
CCP has had plenty of opportunity to spend my money, but now I think it's time for me to give it to someone else and see if they will deliver on their promises.
Theoretically, eventually. Right now they're at the state of a buggy hangar viewing app for early backers and the full game won't be out till some time in 2015 which means about 4 Eve expansions before they've even released their full game, let alone having all of these various features polished...
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Who knows how SC turns out ,but they deliver something CCP promised to this game. And after that ,promised to work on a prototype,but supposedly not allowed to show that to the community.
And besides if Chris Roberts deliver half the stuff he promised ,that game will rock And if not ,we wait a bit more for the real honest game developer
There's a difference between delivering what they promised and delivering what people expect. They say things like "epic space combat" and everyone takes that to mean something different. The number of hard facts we have on the game is actually fairly small and it's still really early in development.
If a dev is honest and says "we can't do all of those things by X date" people accuse them of being lazy or tell them to hire more people. Except that game-devs aren't lazy (in general) and can't afford to hire more people (again, in general) because making a game doesn't mean you don't still want to be paid a living wage. Most of the really talented devs, especially the technical people, are in the industry in-spite of the pay check, not because of it. Most of them could get a pretty nice pay bump moving to Microsoft or any other more mainstream tech company, because Microsoft Office sells even more copies than even the most popular video games. |
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
275
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 20:09:00 -
[1811] - Quote
Quote:Have you heard about carrot and stick? Now this thread is in a stick phase, and before it was in a carrot phase, and then after the stick phase ends it will be back to carrot phase. Positive incentive and negative incentive work together.
I have to be honest with you all, now it feels for me more like beating dead donkey with stick, ocassionally putting carrot in his mouth and shouting, "eat that!". Same effect. New CQ prototype |
Broker Agent
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 20:39:00 -
[1812] - Quote
I was going to unsub anyway, so i thought I would say it here just to be part of the cause. Plus, if CCP do finally get around to it because of the number of lost subs I can come back to Eve. |
Jack Logans
Critical Hit..
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 20:47:00 -
[1813] - Quote
Hey CCP... any comment on any of this? |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1056
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 20:54:00 -
[1814] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
There's a difference between delivering what they promised and delivering what people expect. They say things like "epic space combat" and everyone takes that to mean something different. The number of hard facts we have on the game is actually fairly small and it's still really early in development.
You forget in this reply the promises CCP made .
R.S.I2014
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1056
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 21:01:00 -
[1815] - Quote
Jack Logans wrote:Hey CCP... any comment on any of this?
How? There never was and never will be any WIS in this game. R.S.I2014
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20912
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 21:11:00 -
[1816] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Smaller budget, also still in development and not releasing till sometime in 2014 (at the earliest). Also unlikely to be on the same scale of universe as Eve. Not my point... and EVE's budget at the beginning was 2.6 mil... I mean that it's yet abother online spaceship game with a persistent universe that maybe does some things better then EVE... there haven't been all to many of those in the last couple of years. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
90
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 21:54:00 -
[1817] - Quote
CCP's problem is not only whether its devs and programmers can be competetent and pro-active enough to deliver development of the game's graphic and physics engine and connection to the other EVE Universe titles. The main issue and obvious disadvantage to RSI is the direction given to development and the platform and marketing choices made. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
90
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 23:14:00 -
[1818] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/eve-online-winter-expansion-announcement-sep-26/
hang on to your plexes doods, dont unsub yet, here comes winter expansion EVE HallelujahGäó |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20918
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 23:18:00 -
[1819] - Quote
Yup... we'll see... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
921
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 23:31:00 -
[1820] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/eve-online-winter-expansion-announcement-sep-26/ hang on to your plexes doods, dont unsub yet, here comes winter expansion EVE HallelujahGäó
Would be cool if they announce something, anything WiS involved but I won't hold my breath ... i'll take a wild guess and say its going to be a pos and/ This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
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Flamespar
Woof Club
712
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 00:09:00 -
[1821] - Quote
Yeah. I'll either stay or leave based on what they announce for the winter expansion.
Years of "soon"(TM) has taken its toll. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
90
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 00:16:00 -
[1822] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Yeah. I'll either stay or leave based on what they announce for the winter expansion.
Years of "soon"(TM) has taken its toll.
lololol |
Flamespar
Woof Club
712
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 00:29:00 -
[1823] - Quote
I wouldn't be too quick to laugh. Other things languishing under the title "Soon"(TM) include
- modular POS - comet mining - Direct X 11 update - farms and fields for low sec (as opposed to moon sized ATMs) - most of what was promised for Dust514 - update to planetary interaction
So go ahead. Have a good laugh. But do so in the knowledge that nothing that CCP says is guaranteed to ever happen, or if it does, to meet their hype. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
90
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 00:32:00 -
[1824] - Quote
Yeah i'm laughing with you not at you. I can see where you're coming from. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
218
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:12:00 -
[1825] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Not my point... and EVE's budget at the beginning was 2.6 mil... I mean that it's yet abother online spaceship game with a persistent universe that maybe does some things better then EVE... there haven't been all to many of those in the last couple of years.
Sure, but Eve was also barely playable when it released. If they'd released it into the current MMO market it probably would have died rather quickly.
Sure, maybe it does things better than Eve but I don't think it's really going to be covering a lot of the same ground as Eve and seems more likely to compete with Valkyrie than Eve Online itself.
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:You forget in this reply the promises CCP made .
No, but I'm a designer so when I see them talking "pie in the sky" future vision stuff I place it in the context of "next 5+ years" not "next expansion".
Historically CCP have made a fair number of mistakes as a company in how they communicated things with their player-base and that's gotten them in trouble, but I've also been around long enough to see them learn and adapt based on those mistakes and that makes me trust them more rather than less.
Stuff like the ship rebalancing may not be as fun or exciting to some people as new content but it's still very much needed and, IMO, long over-due considering how long the game's been out.
If you feel, based on actual evidence, and not tin-foil plated paranoia, that CCP is taking the game in a direction you don't like then door's and can I have your stuff
Flamespar wrote:I wouldn't be too quick to laugh. Other things languishing under the title "Soon"(TM) include
- modular POS - comet mining - Direct X 11 update - farms and fields for low sec (as opposed to moon sized ATMs) - most of what was promised for Dust514 - update to planetary interaction
So go ahead. Have a good laugh. But do so in the knowledge that nothing that CCP says is guaranteed to ever happen, or if it does, to meet their hype.
^ A good example of a "pie in the sky" list, more or less with the exception of the PI update (since that ties into Dust 514 which has its own issues right now)
Overall, I've yet to see a game that really "lived up to the hype". This is something of a fundamental problem with both how gamers view games and how publishers market them. Players have fond memories of their first games when things were new and exciting and they want that feeling back, but that's not going to happen. But, they imagine a game before its released as giving them that feeling so when they don't get it they feel lied to and cheated. This is something of a simplification but I feel it captures at least the gist of the issue.
Flamespar wrote:Yeah. I'll either stay or leave based on what they announce for the winter expansion.
Years of "soon"(TM) has taken its toll.
Well, that's your call. Personally I'm going to stick around and keep going since I like the direction the game is heading and I'd rather it get there in one piece rather than rushing and having bits fall to pieces along the way. That is, more or less, what caused the Incarna debacle.
I would, however, direct your attention to this blog post by Ripard Teg, CSM. Most of it can be ignored, the relevant bit pertains to the image down at the bottom.
The long and the short of it (and I do recommend you read the full bit) is that CCP does have long term plans going forward but it takes time to get there. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
91
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:38:00 -
[1826] - Quote
By the time CCP delivers any of its Hallelujah plans on the 3 different game engines/platforms/business models alienated from each other, everybody will most likely be playing SC long ago. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
218
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:45:00 -
[1827] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:By the time CCP delivers any of its Hallelujah plans on the 3 different game engines/platforms/business models alienated from each other, everybody will most likely be playing SC long ago.
Welp, they've got two or more years before Star Citizen is out. Overall I wouldn't expect them to deliver on their "Hallelujah plan" for the game at launch either, the things people expect out of them are way too much to get done in two years for the scope of game that they're talking about. If they pull it off I'll be pleasantly surprised, but the emphasis there is on surprised >.> |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1056
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:50:00 -
[1828] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:raven666wings wrote:By the time CCP delivers any of its Hallelujah plans on the 3 different game engines/platforms/business models alienated from each other, everybody will most likely be playing SC long ago. Welp, they've got two or more years before Star Citizen is out. Overall I wouldn't expect them to deliver on their "Hallelujah plan" for the game at launch either, the things people expect out of them are way too much to get done in two years for the scope of game that they're talking about. If they pull it off I'll be pleasantly surprised, but the emphasis there is on surprised >.>
who knows,but at least the game is made on a good existing game engine R.S.I2014
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
218
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:54:00 -
[1829] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:raven666wings wrote:By the time CCP delivers any of its Hallelujah plans on the 3 different game engines/platforms/business models alienated from each other, everybody will most likely be playing SC long ago. Welp, they've got two or more years before Star Citizen is out. Overall I wouldn't expect them to deliver on their "Hallelujah plan" for the game at launch either, the things people expect out of them are way too much to get done in two years for the scope of game that they're talking about. If they pull it off I'll be pleasantly surprised, but the emphasis there is on surprised >.> who knows,but at least the game is made on a good existing game engine
Which one? Eve or Star Citizen? (also editing to reflect that the "them" was talking about is Star Citizen) |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
91
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 02:58:00 -
[1830] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Welp, they've got two or more years before Star Citizen is out. Overall I wouldn't expect them to deliver on their "Hallelujah plan" for the game at launch either, the things people expect out of them are way too much to get done in two years for the scope of game that they're talking about. If they pull it off I'll be pleasantly surprised, but the emphasis there is on surprised >.>
2 more years huh... hope that makes you sleep better at night. You seem to think everybody works at the pace of CCP and announces deadlines with their integrity. Fortunately for us that doesn't correspond to reality.
|
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
219
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 03:29:00 -
[1831] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:2 more years huh... hope that makes you sleep better at night. You seem to think everybody works at the pace of CCP and announces deadlines with their integrity. Fortunately for us that doesn't correspond to reality.
No, I've got a pretty good idea of what it takes to develop an MMO from the ground up, and 2 years is a *really* ambitious time frame, even with a 20 million dollar budget.
For reference CCP has over 300 people working on Eve Online. 20 million is about enough to employ about 200 people for 2 or so years, at an average wage of ~75,000 a year (since they're based in Austin and Santa Monica seems pretty reasonable), with a little left over for business expenses like software, hardware, building rent, ect.
Overall CCP actually employs fairly talented people by industry standards. Maybe not top-tier tallent in every department but they're successful and can afford to pay good money for good people, which they have a history of doing.
RSI is a new company with a lot of buzz but they're probably not going to be able to pull in absolutely top-shelf people for every single position, which probably means their average can only, in absolute best case, be a little higher than CCP's or the industry's as a whole. The average in the industry says that good MMOs take a lot of development time, tend to be released somewhat light on features compared to what the devs have talked about, and then build up over time post-launch.
I present as evidence of this:
- World of Warcraft - Huge budget, especially for the time and spent far more than 2 years in development. Still released with a good number of bugs and issues and was fairly light on end-game content at the start, especially compared to these days.
- SWTOR - Huge budget, massively hyped, fell flat on its face on release. Not a ton of content, very linear gameplay, overall very disappointing.
- Dungeons and Dragons Online - Two years in development, unknown budget, still released with a fair number of bugs and issues and very light on content. Didn't really come into its own as a successful game until a year after release when it went free-to-play.
- Planetside 2 - Just released, 18 month development cycle, unknown budget, and still coming into its own a year after release. Optimization update planned "soon".
- Guild Wars - Great game, 2 years in development, still really buggy on release, though less so than probably most others on the list. Also less ambitious since most content was instanced. Also the people who founded Arena Net originally worked on World of Warcraft.
Star Citizen is a more ambitious project than most of these and has a smaller budget for the next 2 years than Eve Online does. Overall I'll be somewhat surprised if something doesn't give between here and there, either the feature list, or the release schedule. |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 04:05:00 -
[1832] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:raven666wings wrote:2 more years huh... hope that makes you sleep better at night. You seem to think everybody works at the pace of CCP and announces deadlines with their integrity. Fortunately for us that doesn't correspond to reality.
No, I've got a pretty good idea of what it takes to develop an MMO from the ground up, and 2 years is a *really* ambitious time frame, even with a 20 million dollar budget. For reference CCP has over 300 people working on Eve Online. 20 million is about enough to employ about 200 people for 2 or so years, at an average wage of ~75,000 a year (since they're based in Austin and Santa Monica seems pretty reasonable), with a little left over for business expenses like software, hardware, building rent, ect. Overall CCP actually employs fairly talented people by industry standards. Maybe not top-tier tallent in every department but they're successful and can afford to pay good money for good people, which they have a history of doing. RSI is a new company with a lot of buzz but they're probably not going to be able to pull in absolutely top-shelf people for every single position, which probably means their average can only, in absolute best case, be a little higher than CCP's or the industry's as a whole. The average in the industry says that good MMOs take a lot of development time, tend to be released somewhat light on features compared to what the devs have talked about, and then build up over time post-launch. I present as evidence of this:
- World of Warcraft - Huge budget, especially for the time and spent far more than 2 years in development. Still released with a good number of bugs and issues and was fairly light on end-game content at the start, especially compared to these days.
- SWTOR - Huge budget, massively hyped, fell flat on its face on release. Not a ton of content, very linear gameplay, overall very disappointing.
- Dungeons and Dragons Online - Two years in development, unknown budget, still released with a fair number of bugs and issues and very light on content. Didn't really come into its own as a successful game until a year after release when it went free-to-play.
- Planetside 2 - Just released, 18 month development cycle, unknown budget, and still coming into its own a year after release. Optimization update planned "soon".
- Guild Wars - Great game, 2 years in development, still really buggy on release, though less so than probably most others on the list. Also less ambitious since most content was instanced. Also the people who founded Arena Net originally worked on World of Warcraft.
- Diablo 3 - Can't forget this one. Worked well technically but the gameplay had major issues that still haven't been fully resolved.
Star Citizen is a more ambitious project than most of these and has a smaller budget for the next 2 years than Eve Online does. Overall I'll be somewhat surprised if something doesn't give between here and there, either the feature list, or the release schedule. How much nonsense can one person pull out of their ass in one go? lol
BTW SC is early 2015 for full release and I suspect they will keep their deadlines and goals as so far they have. The Hanger is already reality, dogfighting happens in December.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
219
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 04:38:00 -
[1833] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:How much nonsense can one person pull out of their ass in one go? lol
BTW SC is early 2015 for full release and I suspect they will keep their deadlines and goals as so far they have. The Hanger is already reality, dogfighting happens in December.
Like I said, I'll be happy if they can pull it off, I just don't think it's going to happen. MMOs are notoriously problematic during development and the more people you're dealing with the more problems you're going to have. Hence why I say it's probably not going to release on time or it'll release on time but missing some promised features to be added... "soon" |
Poster Master
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 05:02:00 -
[1834] - Quote
I am unable to read through the 86 pages but can someone please confirm if Team Avatar is in any way a reference to Avatar: The Last Airbender? |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20924
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 05:06:00 -
[1835] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Like I said, I'll be happy if they can pull it off, I just don't think it's going to happen. MMOs are notoriously problematic during development and the more people you're dealing with the more problems you're going to have. Hence why I say it's probably not going to release on time or it'll release on time but missing some promised features to be added... "soon" SC already has been in development over a year even before they startet die kickstarter, I think they got their studio and staff covered... Chris Roberts isn't a exactly a poor man. As it stands now, I'm pretty confident they can pull this off...
On ELITE Dangerous once more: Don't let the trailer fool you, the game will be nothing like the arcade shooter Valkyrie. It will include a sophisticated economy and politics system, mining and salvaging, player ships from fighter to capship size, etc. Practically everything EVE has, plus the ability to move around in stations and inside ships... sure, it's only pre alpha right now, but it's another big candidate for the "best online spaceship game" throne. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
288
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 05:10:00 -
[1836] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Soulpirate wrote:How much nonsense can one person pull out of their ass in one go? lol
BTW SC is early 2015 for full release and I suspect they will keep their deadlines and goals as so far they have. The Hanger is already reality, dogfighting happens in December.
Like I said, I'll be happy if they can pull it off, I just don't think it's going to happen. MMOs are notoriously problematic during development and the more people you're dealing with the more problems you're going to have. Hence why I say it's probably not going to release on time or it'll release on time but missing some promised features to be added... "soon"
They are releasing the features already, and when they are all out they will make the full release available.
It's funny/sad, this thread is no longer about what CCP can do to make EVE better, its more about what another company is about to do that EVE should have done a LONG time ago.
SC = Dust514 + EVE + Valkyrie all in one game on one platform.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
712
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 05:46:00 -
[1837] - Quote
I find it hilarious that during discussions on WiS someone inevitably pops up and says some variation of "just be patient", "or give them a few years".
Walking in stations was first announced in 2006.
5 years later they launch 4 single player rooms.
Just how patient are we meant to be exactly? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20929
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 06:14:00 -
[1838] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Just how patient are we meant to be exactly? Dunno, really... I know I'll be here (staying subbed) until SC and Elite come out... that's my personal deadline for now. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
220
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 06:37:00 -
[1839] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:They are releasing the features already, and when they are all out they will make the full release available.
It's funny/sad, this thread is no longer about what CCP can do to make EVE better, its more about what another company is about to do that EVE should have done a LONG time ago.
SC = Dust514 + EVE + Valkyrie all in one game on one platform.
Except, you know, the last time they said "lets go this way" the player base said "nope, more in-space stuff or we burn the game down!"
Either way, threat has gotten way off topic.
So, how about that door? :) |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20931
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 06:49:00 -
[1840] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Except, you know, the last time they said "lets go this way" the player base said "nope, more in-space stuff or we burn the game down!" Not this theory again... the outrage was 90% about the NeX store, and the "greed is good" agenda, CCP had back then.
But, yea, the door... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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Isis Dea
Combat Cruise Control
80
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 06:51:00 -
[1841] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Anslo wrote:So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us? How in himmelsname did you get to that? Well the door needs unlocked to go get the EVA suit?....I just want non-spaceshippy sci fi gameplay sprinkled with the spaceship gameplay. This isn't supposed to be space ship only. Eve set out to be the world's largest and greatest SCIENCE FICTION SIMULATOR, not just a spaceship simulator.
This. And tattoos. And visible implants. And more clothes. And strippers in the captains quarters.
*cracks bondage whip*
Don't make me come to iceland... xD
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20932
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 07:07:00 -
[1842] - Quote
Isis Dea wrote:Don't make me come to iceland... xD Who knows? Maybe that actually would help? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1828
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 07:10:00 -
[1843] - Quote
Just confirming that the discussion about how long it will take them to make SC earlier is making a lot of deductions that shouldn't really be made.
As a developer myself I can tell you the engine your working with makes a massive difference. I've never worked with Carbon obviously, and I have never worked with Cry 3. But we know that so far CCP haven't developed anything Avatar based with Carbon (anything worth talking about anyway), and Roberts has already achieved infinately more than them in that regards. Also, his 20m budget is 20m so far, for a while his budget was going up by 1m per week. And that is just the kickstarter money. He also has a lot of people investing and just giving him money from other sources. I imagine his currently total budget is much greater than double 20m.
As for Eve having 300 employees, and Robets having 200... well that's not true or relevant. CCP has 300 devs, Eve probably has something like 60-80 dedicated employees. The rest will be general admin, or working on other games. Roberts isn't working on any other projects. On top of that, Roberts is developing a new game. No signifcant amount of his employees will be customer support. Software maintainance takes as much or more man hours than developement. Currently Roberts isn't maintaining anything so you can double his developement time just on that.
Basically, Roberts has it easy. A better engine, more employees, more money, no maintainance and a new project that doesn't have old code that needs sifting through. There are more things to take into account but that will do. Trying to compare the amount of time it will take for Roberts by using CCP as an example is futile at best. They are in very differant baost. Best to just look at History as an indicater. Has Roberts dilivered on every promise so far? Yes. Has CCP? No, lol. Will Roberts get it all done when he says he will? Probably. Will CCP deliver on any of their future promises? Probably not, lol. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Altered Ego
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 07:31:00 -
[1844] - Quote
Arduemont wrote: "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice."
I'm +1'ing you just for your signature. ;)
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20939
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 08:36:00 -
[1845] - Quote
Altered Ego wrote:Don't mind me, I'm just +1'ing you just for your signature ... anyways, back to the discussion. ;) Only if you don't mind my for +1'ing you for your name... very witty! "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Alice Saki
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
88278
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 08:44:00 -
[1846] - Quote
This Thread is Endorsed by ME! ^_^
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20942
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 10:23:00 -
[1847] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:This Thread is Endorsed by ME! ^_^ Ok then people, our mission is done, we can go home...
*glomp* "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
91
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 12:10:00 -
[1848] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Like I said, I'll be happy if they can pull it off, I just don't think it's going to happen. MMOs are notoriously problematic during development and the more people you're dealing with the more problems you're going to have. Hence why I say it's probably not going to release on time or it'll release on time but missing some promised features to be added... "soon"
If only your dellusional speech would slow down RSI from delivering the game. Plus it's not like they started building the game yesterday. They been working at it for the past years in case you haven't noticed. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
91
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 13:03:00 -
[1849] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:I present as evidence of this:
- World of Warcraft - Huge budget, especially for the time and spent far more than 2 years in development. Still released with a good number of bugs and issues and was fairly light on end-game content at the start, especially compared to these days.
- SWTOR - Huge budget, massively hyped, fell flat on its face on release. Not a ton of content, very linear gameplay, overall very disappointing.
- Dungeons and Dragons Online - Two years in development, unknown budget, still released with a fair number of bugs and issues and very light on content. Didn't really come into its own as a successful game until a year after release when it went free-to-play.
- Planetside 2 - Just released, 18 month development cycle, unknown budget, and still coming into its own a year after release. Optimization update planned "soon".
- Guild Wars - Great game, 2 years in development, still really buggy on release, though less so than probably most others on the list. Also less ambitious since most content was instanced. Also the people who founded Arena Net originally worked on World of Warcraft.
- Diablo 3 - Can't forget this one. Worked well technically but the gameplay had major issues that still haven't been fully resolved.
Star Citizen is a more ambitious project than most of these and has a smaller budget for the next 2 years than Eve Online does. Overall I'll be somewhat surprised if something doesn't give between here and there, either the feature list, or the release schedule.
Seems to me you forgot to include something in your list:
- EVE Online - Good space game with great sci-fi content and backstory. Gained notority over the years for rarely delivering on its promises regarding gameplay development. Engaged in side projects and failed to upgrade its graphic and physics engine and deliver Directx 11 support, aswell as improving core gameplay features. Launched a half baked Carbon avatar gameplay engine that melted video cards and offered 0 gameplay features. It's subs numbers grew over the years, but with the appearance of other quality space mmorpgs EVE's place in the top of the food chain seems now more shaken than ever. Stay tuned on the next year for the rest of the story.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1881
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 13:11:00 -
[1850] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Like I said, I'll be happy if they can pull it off, I just don't think it's going to happen. MMOs are notoriously problematic during development and the more people you're dealing with the more problems you're going to have. Hence why I say it's probably not going to release on time or it'll release on time but missing some promised features to be added... "soon" If only your dellusional speech would slow down RSI from delivering the game. Plus it's not like they started building the game yesterday. They been working at it for the past years in case you haven't noticed. Trying to project CCP's actions on RSI... Instead of talking down on other projects try talking more about the management decisions that made CCP engage in side projects in multiple platforms, alienating and trying to scam the playerbase, while leaving EVE's engine and core gameplay to stagnate. Like the old proberb: Plant winds, collect storms. Reap what you saw.
Actually, CIG (the company making Star Citizen) has got in the line of 80 employees after their last expansion. But Chris Roberts is a producer, and he just has been hiring 3rd party Montreal based studios with the expertise he needs to make the less-creative work. There are two studios making the videos, another one doing the 3d Animation, and so and so.
That's just cunning, as a 3rd party studio is likely to have everything a new company doesn't: equipment, personnel and expertise... and they work on a schedule and a budget. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1882
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 13:38:00 -
[1851] - Quote
By the way, concerning this image:
http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2013/eve-future.png
Don't you feel like something is missing?
To be fair, the image is old and just is an instance on how "paralel development" is meant to work. And yet, WiS and avatars weren't in the plans neither "before" nor "after."
PS: The original, inspirational Hallelujah Trail... err... Plan
Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Don't know where we're goin' or where we've been Hallelujah trail It's written in the dust and blown by the wind Hallelujah trail
Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelu Halleluja trail
You can't tell a horse from a stubborn mule, Hallelujah trail You can't tell a hero from a doggone fool, Hallelujah trail
Hallelujah, Hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelu Halleluja trail The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
91
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 13:39:00 -
[1852] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Actually, CIG (the company making Star Citizen) has got in the line of 80 employees after their last expansion. But Chris Roberts is a producer, and he just has been hiring 3rd party Montreal based studios with the expertise he needs to make the less-creative work. There are two studios making the videos, another one doing the 3d Animation, and so and so.
That's just cunning, as a 3rd party studio is likely to have everything a new company doesn't: equipment, personnel and expertise... and they work on a schedule and a budget.
Right, just what CCP's CEO and producers should have done. Want to work on more stuff than your team can handle, hire more people or outsource the work to other studios. Don't put the main project on hold by firing them or moving them around between secondary projects. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
91
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 13:40:00 -
[1853] - Quote
ahahahaha good stuff |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 15:56:00 -
[1854] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:the outrage was 90% about the NeX store, and the "greed is good" agenda, CCP had back then.
[citation needed]
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1178
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 16:01:00 -
[1855] - Quote
I wouldn't go throwing around numbers, but I do agree that avatar play has been unfairly tarnished by all the **** that came with it yet was not necessarily integral to it as a form of gameplay.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
92
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 16:59:00 -
[1856] - Quote
Yes YES!!! Greed is Good! And CCPeen is Big! Buy more PLEX here and Dream with us guyz!!! |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1056
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 18:27:00 -
[1857] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:raven666wings wrote:By the time CCP delivers any of its Hallelujah plans on the 3 different game engines/platforms/business models alienated from each other, everybody will most likely be playing SC long ago. Welp, they've got two or more years before Star Citizen is out. Overall I wouldn't expect them to deliver on their "Hallelujah plan" for the game at launch either, the things people expect out of them are way too much to get done in two years for the scope of game that they're talking about. If they pull it off I'll be pleasantly surprised, but the emphasis there is on surprised >.> who knows,but at least the game is made on a good existing game engine Which one? Eve or Star Citizen? (also editing to reflect that the "them" was talking about is Star Citizen)
SC on cryengine R.S.I2014
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
220
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 18:44:00 -
[1858] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Just confirming that the discussion about how long it will take them to make SC earlier is making a lot of deductions that shouldn't really be made.
As a developer myself I can tell you the engine your working with makes a massive difference. I've never worked with Carbon obviously, and I have never worked with Cry 3. But we know that so far CCP haven't developed anything Avatar based with Carbon (anything worth talking about anyway), and Roberts has already achieved infinately more than them in that regards. Also, his 20m budget is 20m so far, for a while his budget was going up by 1m per week. And that is just the kickstarter money. He also has a lot of people investing and just giving him money from other sources. I imagine his currently total budget is much greater than double 20m.
Actually according to their own wiki that is his funding for the game. The article mentions outside investors but that note is conspicuously devoid of sources, especially given that there's a note saying it needs a source.
Also Dust 514 is based on the Carbon engine, so your claim that they haven't developed anything worth talking about with Carbon is flat false. Dust certainly has bugs and gameplay issues, but it certainly serves as a viable test of the engine.
As for the Cry engine, that says nothing about getting it to do massive space battles without melting peoples' computers or the net-code to make all that work, which is where I would expect most of the problems and bugs to crop up from. Good net-code is notoriously hard to do, and it gets worse the more people you're trying to run in one place at one time.
Arduemont wrote:As for Eve having 300 employees, and Robets having 200... well that's not true or relevant. CCP has 300 employees, Eve probably has something like 60-80 dedicated employees. The rest will be general admin, or working on other games. Roberts isn't working on any other projects. On top of that, Roberts is developing a new game. No signifcant amount of his employees will be customer support. Software maintainance takes as much or more man hours than developement. Currently Roberts isn't maintaining anything so you can double his developement time just on that.
Actually CCP has approximately 600 employees, Eve Online itself has about 300 people working on it.
As for double his development time, what? That doesn't even make sense unless you mean 80 vs 200 employees, which as I've already pointed out is pretty false.
Also Eve Online has a fair base of volunteers doing menial customer support tasks and Roberts is still going to need to fund non-development positions like customer relations people, people to police the forums, lawyers, ect. Yes, he's going to need a few more people for a full launch but given that the game is doing a staged launch rather than going into hibernation for 2 years he's actually going to need those people earlier than another game company would.
Arduemont wrote:Basically, Roberts has it easy. A better engine, more employees, more money, no maintainance and a new project that doesn't have old code that needs sifting through. There are more things to take into account but that will do. Trying to compare the amount of time it will take for Roberts by using CCP as an example is futile at best. They are in very differant boats. Best to just look at History as an indicater. Has Roberts dilivered on every promise so far? Yes. Has CCP? No, lol. Will Roberts get it all done when he says he will? Probably. Will CCP deliver on any of their future promises? Probably not, lol.
The one thing I'll give you is no old code to deal with. Every older game is hampered somewhat by this because refactoring old code is time consuming and gives you very little to show for it to the player base unless that refactor shows massive performance gains or lets you do something really cool immediately.
Also, using history as an indicator Roberts hasn't delivered on all of his promises for old games. Freelancer was originally supposed to be on the scale of Eve Online just for a start. His claims just turned out to be too technically ambitious for the time.
You can go around to pretty much every MMO forum and see people making the same "soon(TM)" jokes and complaining about bugs, incomplete features, and all the other basic complaints Eve players have. The grass is always greener until you get there, ect. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
220
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 18:55:00 -
[1859] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Apart from disagreeing completely with this ridiculous analysis on those titles showing your knowledge about them, it seems to me you forgot to include something in your list:
- EVE Online - Good space game with great sci-fi content and backstory. Gained notoriety over the years for rarely delivering on its promises regarding gameplay development. Engaged in side projects and failed to upgrade its graphic and physics engine and add Directx 11 support, aswell as to improve core gameplay features. Launched a half baked Carbon avatar gameplay engine that melted video cards and offered 0 gameplay features. Its subscription numbers grew over the years, but with the appearance of other quality space mmorpgs delivering what EVE couldn't, its place on top of the food chain seems now more shaken than ever. Stay tuned for the next year to hear the rest of the story.
Pretty much every game listed has those issues.
Every studio has other projects, Eve Online is the only community I've seen get massively upset about it.
This is the full list of games with Direct X 11 support. Note that most MMOs aren't on there. In-fact, amusingly neither Diablo 3 nor SWTOR support Direct X 11 despite having much higher budgets than either Eve Online or Star Citizen. Many games don't bother supporting it because they either don't need it or upgrading to Direct X 11 would cut off a portion of their user base. This is probably especially true of Eve Online which is notorious for having people either running multiple clients or running on older machines.
Yes, we've all established that the WiS launch was not good. On the melting video cards end of things though, Star Citizen's Hangar has higher system requirements than Eve Online does.
Citation needed on that "place in the food chain" bit since Eve's numbers passed 500,000 at the start of the year and it seems to be doing better than ever with the averages for this summer being possibly the highest ever. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
220
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 19:00:00 -
[1860] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Except, you know, the last time they said "lets go this way" the player base said "nope, more in-space stuff or we burn the game down!" Not this theory again... the outrage was 90% about the NeX store, and the "greed is good" agenda, CCP had back then. But, yea, the door...
Oh, I'm completely aware that that's an over-simplification of what actually caused the outrage. The problem is that people still believe that WiS was the cause and that it's something to be outraged over, which means CCP are still going to have to contend with those people if they want to release more WiS content.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:By the way, concerning this image: http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2013/eve-future.pngDon't you feel like something is missing? To be fair, the image is old and just is an instance on how "paralel development" is meant to work. And yet, WiS and avatars weren't in the plans neither "before" nor "after."
Not really, it's a controversial topic so they're unlikely to address it directly until they feel in-space features are on a stable footing and that bringing it up again won't produce a massive backlash. Plus those are large, primary features and that's unlikely to be what future WiS development is going to be. Far more likely it'll have a dedicated team and be going on in the background of everything else.
There were no less than four sessions from the last CSM that were NDA's into a crater so it's not like they're talking opening about everything they're working on. |
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1178
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 19:12:00 -
[1861] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:The problem is that people still believe that WiS was the cause and that it's something to be outraged over, which means CCP are still going to have to contend with those people if they want to release more WiS content.
...it's a controversial topic so they're unlikely to address it directly until they feel in-space features are on a stable footing and that bringing it up again won't produce a massive backlash. Plus those are large, primary features and that's unlikely to be what future WiS development is going to be. Far more likely it'll have a dedicated team and be going on in the background of everything else.
Agreed. I am supremely confident that WiS will be a large and focused development that follows a general feeling, at least within CCP, that the existing core gameplay of Eve is developmentally current and on track to stay that way through the focused implementation of WiS...and that trailers or snapshots from games that are at least two years from existing have little to no impact on their plans.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 19:23:00 -
[1862] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Agreed. I am supremely confident that WiS will be a large and focused development that follows a general feeling, at least within CCP, that the existing core gameplay of Eve is developmentally current and on track to stay that way through the focused implementation of WiS...and that trailers or snapshots from games that are at least two years from existing have little to no impact on their plans.
Pretty much this. Though I doubt it's going to be a "large" development. More likely we'll just see one decent sized team assigned to carry it forward with small incremental updates so as not to make it seem like they've lost focus on in-space features.
Otherwise, yeah pretty much this. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
207
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 19:39:00 -
[1863] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Also Dust 514 is based on the Carbon engine
LOL
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
93
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 20:32:00 -
[1864] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Also Dust 514 is based on the Carbon engine LOL
lol nuff said!!!! |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1837
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 20:35:00 -
[1865] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Also Dust 514 is based on the Carbon engine
I stopped reading there. Dust514 uses the Unreal 3 engine. Check your facts. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
223
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 20:55:00 -
[1866] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I stopped reading there, your rant was entirely wasted. Dust514 uses the Unreal 3 engine. Check your facts.
Woops, you are correct. My bad.
I do suggest you read the rest of it though. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1838
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 21:06:00 -
[1867] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Woops, you are correct. My bad.
I do suggest you read the rest of it though.
As you were suprisingly polite and admitted your wrongs, I went back and read the rest. Being able to admit you are wrong is a quality I have always admired in a person. The wiki that you linked talking about their funds is massively out of date. At that point they had only crowd sourced 6m, when recent blogs etc are quoting their most up-to-date figure as nearing 21m. A lack of evidence for a specific number of other sources of funding is not evidence of a lack of funding. That's quite a backward way of looking at it.
I took the figures on CCP's employees from your previous arguement. The 600 number your saying there is... well.. I don't know where you got it from. The last official figure I can find is that CCP had a total of 350 staff (on all projects) in 2009. I think that's before Incarnageddon.
At the end of all that my point is (take it from a software developer), Roberts has it really realy easy compared to CCP. Comparing their developement speeds just isn't worth it. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
93
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 21:23:00 -
[1868] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Also Dust 514 is based on the Carbon engine, so this proves Carbon actually works and your statement is blatantly false. It has some bugs and the gameplay is not perfect yes, but makes Dust514 itself an awesome test for carbon.
Does Valkyrie run on Carbon too? Oh my, this whole EVE Universe thing might turn out to be better than I thought... I can see the meaningful connection there, everything on Carbon!!! \o/ Now just need Carbon spaceshipz too |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
223
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 23:14:00 -
[1869] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:As you were suprisingly polite and admitted your wrongs, I went back and read the rest. Being able to admit you are wrong is a quality I have always admired in a person. The wiki that you linked talking about their funds is massively out of date. At that point they had only crowd sourced 6m, when recent blogs etc are quoting their most up-to-date figure as nearing 21m. A lack of evidence for a specific number of other sources of funding is not evidence of a lack of funding. That's quite a backward way of looking at it.
I took the figures on CCP's employees from your previous arguement. The 600 number your saying there is... well.. I don't know where you got it from. The last official figure I can find is that CCP had a total of 350 staff (on all projects) in 2009. I think that's before Incarnageddon.
At the end of all that my point is (take it from a software developer), Roberts has it really realy easy compared to CCP. Comparing their developement speeds just isn't worth it.
Thanks, I appreciate that you cited a source for that number so I checked my source. The 600 came from the CCP Games Wiki page but the source it cited is from 2008. I went back through the history and that number has been there since 2011 or so which was a bit suspect. I found this article from early 2012 that says 450 employees but doesn't cite a source. Then I found CCP's Linked-In profile which lists 973 employees. Even accounting for old employees that makes the 600 employees figure pretty realistic. Also they currently have 6 different campuses and Rejavick (Eve development) is supposed to be their biggest campus so at least something in the realm of 900 is pretty believable.
Also the video that's heavy cited in the Star Citizen release schedule article has Chris mention that at the 9,5 million mark he was hoping to crowd-fund the entire development and was figuring on 14-15 million for the fully developed game.
Sure, he has some advantages, but he's also shooting for something that's, conceptually, very complicated and going to be hard to pull off. Hence why what their shooting for is an ambiguous "early 2015". Realistically I think it's going to be mid to late 2015 before they've got all the potential gameplay and networking issues worked out.
What I am not saying is that Star Citizen is going to be a bad game, just that development issues are fairly normal in any software development, especially game development, and especially MMOs.
Overall 3-4 Eve expansions is a lot of time. That's about how much time has passed since Incarna and the game has improved a ton in that time and is, in my opinion at least, in better shape than its ever been in and 3-4 expansions is a pretty good amount of time for it to improve further. It's also way to far in the future to be declaring that these games are going to kill Eve.
So, more talk of WiS features we'd like to see! |
Flamespar
Woof Club
718
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 23:52:00 -
[1870] - Quote
Meanwhile the 12 month anniversary of this thread is coming up.
Seriously CCP. What else do we need to do to demonstrate that there is huge interest in meaningful avatar gameplay? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1181
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 23:56:00 -
[1871] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Meanwhile the 12 month anniversary of this thread is coming up.
Seriously CCP. What else do we need to do to demonstrate that there is huge interest in meaningful avatar gameplay?
Obviously more than one thread with a dozen people circlejerking each other with terrible arguments for a year. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Flamespar
Woof Club
718
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 23:59:00 -
[1872] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Flamespar wrote:Meanwhile the 12 month anniversary of this thread is coming up.
Seriously CCP. What else do we need to do to demonstrate that there is huge interest in meaningful avatar gameplay? Obviously more than one thread with a dozen people circlejerking each other with terrible arguments for a year.
And yet the best counterarguments people can come up with is gibberish like yours. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
278
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 00:04:00 -
[1873] - Quote
But how much people are actually working on EVE? It's classified or what? New CQ prototype |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
210
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 02:08:00 -
[1874] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Meanwhile the 12 month anniversary of this thread is coming up.
Seriously CCP. What else do we need to do to demonstrate that there is huge interest in meaningful avatar gameplay?
This one is easy. If you can't live without more space pants or dance parties then cancel your subscription and state why. If there really is "huge interest" CCP will take note of all the people canceling and do something.
This is what real Eve players did after Incarna was released and it was fantastically effective. We got WiS put on the backburner and they have concentrated on spaceships ever since.
CCP is a business that relies on subscribers and it's the only metric that matters. Posting in a thread addressed to a team that doesn't even exist anymore isn't going to sway them.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1183
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 02:11:00 -
[1875] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Posting in a thread addressed to a team that doesn't even exist anymore isn't going to sway them.
Please, Team Jesus, send me electric sex pants for my space avatar!
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
93
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 02:57:00 -
[1876] - Quote
Meanwhile on other games news, Rockstar's GTA V featuring RAGE (Rockstar Advanced Graphic Engine) has launched and sold 14 million copies in the first 24 hours, netting 800 million USD. Already the most sucessful and one of the best (if not THE best) games of all time.
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/09/18/gta-5-makes-800-million-in-one-day
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/09/18/gta-5-sells-800-million-in-one-day/
http://www.businessinsider.com/gta-v-earns-800-million-in-one-day-2013-9 |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
93
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 03:15:00 -
[1877] - Quote
If only Rockstar let CCP borrow RAGE and make some sick Avatar gameplay out of it...
-+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇóGÖ¬GÖ½GÖ¬You can say I'm a dreamer -+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇó-+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇó-+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇóGÖ½GÖ¬GÖ½ but I'm not the only one...GÖ¬GÖ½GÖ¬GÖ½GÖ¬-+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇó-+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇó |
Flamespar
Woof Club
724
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 05:37:00 -
[1878] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:If only Rockstar let CCP borrow RAGE and make some sick Avatar gameplay out of it...
-+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇóGÖ¬GÖ½GÖ¬You can say I'm a dreamer -+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇó-+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇó-+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇóGÖ½GÖ¬GÖ½ but I'm not the only one...GÖ¬GÖ½GÖ¬GÖ½GÖ¬-+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇó-+-+.GÇó*-¿*GÇó
I wonder if there is any scope for the work of the World of Darkness team to feed back into EVE. I saw some videos where they were showing how they were going about building large urban environments which could be used to build station interiors/and derelicts.
The way they optimize the graphics engine for crowded scenes with lots of avatars could be useful too. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
195
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 07:15:00 -
[1879] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: I wonder if there is any scope for the work of the World of Darkness team to feed back into EVE. I saw some videos where they were showing how they were going about building large urban environments which could be used to build station interiors/and derelicts.
The way they optimize the graphics engine for crowded scenes with lots of avatars could be useful too.
The implication has been that the fork in Carbon developement between the versions of Carbon WoD uses and Eve uses is so great that cross integration will be difficult/impossible. I vaguely remembering there being an entire threadnaught about it at some point.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
724
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 07:31:00 -
[1880] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:Flamespar wrote: I wonder if there is any scope for the work of the World of Darkness team to feed back into EVE. I saw some videos where they were showing how they were going about building large urban environments which could be used to build station interiors/and derelicts.
The way they optimize the graphics engine for crowded scenes with lots of avatars could be useful too.
The implication has been that the fork in Carbon developement between the versions of Carbon WoD uses and Eve uses is so great that cross integration will be difficult/impossible. I vaguely remembering there being an entire threadnaught about it at some point.
I know that the code was forked, but it's not just about the code. They are developing tools, making design decisions around social gameplay, figuring out what works and doesn't work when you design a MMO with realistic avatars and environments.
The lessons they learn should feed back into EVE. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
223
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 08:02:00 -
[1881] - Quote
Rhes wrote:This one is easy. If you can't live without more space pants or dance parties then cancel your subscription and state why. If there really is "huge interest" CCP will take note of all the people canceling and do something.
This is what real Eve players did after Incarna was released and it was fantastically effective. We got WiS put on the backburner and they have concentrated on spaceships ever since.
CCP is a business that relies on subscribers and it's the only metric that matters. Posting in a thread addressed to a team that doesn't even exist anymore isn't going to sway them.
Actually, yes, yes it will. There are plenty of ways to get the attention of the dev-team without canceling your subscription.
Posting on the forums is one of those ways. If they know there's interest in something they're more likely to invest time and money into it.
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:The implication has been that the fork in Carbon developement between the versions of Carbon WoD uses and Eve uses is so great that cross integration will be difficult/impossible. I vaguely remembering there being an entire threadnaught about it at some point.
That's somewhat questionable, any source on that thread and was there any CCP involvement or was it just players speculating into a frenzy?
Plus forking doesn't mean that they can't reintegrate the fork back into the main branch thus bringing all its optimizations and improvements. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
211
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 08:04:00 -
[1882] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:
I know that the code was forked, but it's not just about the code. They are developing tools, making design decisions around social gameplay, figuring out what works and doesn't work when you design a MMO with realistic avatars and environments.
The lessons they learn should feed back into EVE.
That would be dumb. WoD is an avatar based game and Eve is spaceships.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
211
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 08:09:00 -
[1883] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Rhes wrote:This one is easy. If you can't live without more space pants or dance parties then cancel your subscription and state why. If there really is "huge interest" CCP will take note of all the people canceling and do something.
This is what real Eve players did after Incarna was released and it was fantastically effective. We got WiS put on the backburner and they have concentrated on spaceships ever since.
CCP is a business that relies on subscribers and it's the only metric that matters. Posting in a thread addressed to a team that doesn't even exist anymore isn't going to sway them.
Actually, yes, yes it will. There are plenty of ways to get the attention of the dev-team without canceling your subscription. Posting on the forums is one of those ways. If they know there's interest in something they're more likely to invest time and money into it
Posting on forums doesn't pay the bills. This thread is a year old...CCP is well aware of what handful of role players and furries want and when they compare that to the number of people who stopped paying them last time they tried WiS it is not hard to see why they haven't tried again. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1846
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 08:20:00 -
[1884] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote: I vaguely remembering there being an entire threadnaught about it at some point.
Said threadnaught. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
223
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 08:46:00 -
[1885] - Quote
Cool, bookmarked. However, there's nothing in there about Carbon's fork meaning it's unusable for Eve or WiS, just that the WoD team was disentangled from the Eve one.
Rhes wrote:Posting on forums doesn't pay the bills. This thread is a year old...CCP is well aware of what handful of role players and furries want and when they compare that to the number of people who stopped paying them last time they tried WiS it is not hard to see why they haven't tried again.
Right, you are free to quit when WiS eventually comes back around.
And actually CCP is pretty well aware that there's interest from a lot of people on WiS content, provided it doesn't look like it's going to overwhelm WiS content and ties into the rest of the game, not just the groups you seem intent on marginalizing. Threads like this remind CCP that there is still interest in WiS and related topics and that people are still interested in it. If the thread dies and nothing new starts up then CCP are likely to place WiS content on a slightly higher priority.
As to why they haven't continued to iterate on WiS content... probably because they wanted to focus on in-space stuff first. It's been repeatedly reiterated by CCP that WiS isn't dead and that they do have plans to return to it in the future. If you have a problem with that then maybe you should un-sub and list "heard you were going to keep developing WiS in the future" in the reason field? |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
281
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 08:49:00 -
[1886] - Quote
Locked!
And good riddance (looking from CCP side).
"X" year plan my ass. Means they will deliver small chunks of everything at the time. How much it will be entartaining to play not finished product or feature, will it feel like walking in CQ? "See you in "X" years, we go play something less boring" i presume will be the answer. New CQ prototype |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21026
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 08:49:00 -
[1887] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:As to why they haven't continued to iterate on WiS content... probably because they wanted to focus on in-space stuff first. It's been repeatedly reiterated by CCP that WiS isn't dead and that they do have plans to return to it in the future. If you have a problem with that then maybe you should un-sub and list "heard you were going to keep developing WiS in the future" in the reason field? True... and CCP doesn't shy away from saying something is dead when, indeed it is dead... like planetary flight. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
724
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 08:57:00 -
[1888] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:True... and CCP doesn't shy away from saying something is dead when, indeed it is dead... like planetary flight.
Well it actually does exist. In Dust514.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21027
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 10:00:00 -
[1889] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Well it actually does exist. In Dust514. I don't talk about "that game"... I don't even own a PS3. vOv "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
94
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 12:25:00 -
[1890] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Posting on forums doesn't pay the bills. This thread is a year old...CCP is well aware of what handful of role players and furries want and when they compare that to the number of people who stopped paying them last time they tried WiS it is not hard to see why they haven't tried again.
Would you like to lie down on the couch and talk about those feelings of guilt? Trapping them deep in your subconscious is not very healthy. Don't let them undermine your relationships with others. Let them go... |
|
Sir Jack Falstaff
The Not So Jolly Rogers Academy
46
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 15:40:00 -
[1891] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Would you like to lie down on the couch and talk about those feelings of guilt? Trapping them deep in your subconscious is not very healthy. Don't let them undermine your relationships with others! Let them go... You're close, but I don't think guilt is exactly what we're seeing presented here. He clearly has strong, intense emotions whenever avatar gameplay is mentioned, yet those feeling confuse and frighten him because his self-image is so closely associated with spaceship flying. Cognitive dissonance is created when a person who fancies themselves a spaceship pilot first and foremost, whose very identity is constructed around PvP, finds the very mention of walking in stations to be arousing. This cognitive dissonance presents itself as forum rage. The ruse is childishly transparent and obvious to even the most casual observer, but to the PvPer harboring a secret need to walk in stations, it is necessary to their very notion of their own identity.
More seriously, the Incarna debacle was not over WiS, but over microtransactions. More specifically, over fears that CCP would move to a play to win strategy similar to Diablo.
If server activity is a rough proxy for paying customers, Eve has been fluctuating around 30K for the last 4 years. Do we have numbers for paid accounts? I don't think we do, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Here's Tranquility activity. There is a summer lull after Incarna (June 2011), but another similar one happens the next year (June 2012). Although this summer was historically busy. I don't see much evidence for the claim that Incarna caused people to stop paying, I see even less evidence for the claim that it was avatar gameplay rather than microtransactions that caused people to get angry.
The fact that CCP created this thread (in October 2012, i.e. after Incarna) to talk about avatar gameplay specifically rebuts the claim that CCP was scared off by the Incarna backlash (again June 2011).
WiS / avatar exploration sites are coming. I hope we don't have to wait much longer for it. Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
216
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 16:44:00 -
[1892] - Quote
Sir Jack Falstaff wrote:The fact that CCP created this thread (in October 2012, i.e. after Incarna) to talk about avatar gameplay specifically rebuts the claim that CCP was scared off by the Incarna backlash (again June 2011).
They also disbanded Team Avatar. That should tell you everything you need to know.
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
94
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 17:34:00 -
[1893] - Quote
Sir Jack Falstaff wrote: You're close, but I don't think guilt is exactly what we're seeing presented here. He clearly has strong, intense emotions whenever avatar gameplay is mentioned, yet those feeling confuse and frighten him because his self-image is so closely associated with spaceship flying. Cognitive dissonance is created when a person who fancies themselves a spaceship pilot first and foremost, whose very identity is constructed around PvP, finds the very mention of walking in stations to be arousing. This cognitive dissonance presents itself as forum rage. The ruse is childishly transparent and obvious to even the most casual observer, but to the PvPer harboring a secret need to walk in stations, it is necessary to their very notion of their own identity.
Indeed, and also the fear of being deemed inconsistent or rejected by others seems to be venting this disgruntled opposition to Avatar gameplay. A defense mechanism to cope with an inner conflict. One that puts on one side the morality preached by him and his social group, and on the other side his inner desire to engage in activities that are apparently frowned upon by them. But realising that their past actions might have contributed to game's loss of terrain in the competition it is going to be having with other titles in the coming times seems also to be one of the causes of this sulky reaction. |
Sir Jack Falstaff
The Not So Jolly Rogers Academy
48
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 17:48:00 -
[1894] - Quote
Rhes wrote:They also disbanded Team Avatar. That should tell you everything you need to know. Fair enough, and a good point. That was in late 2012. But it doesn't tell us everything we need to know.
CCP Unifex wrote:The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. The Avatar team will now be turning its attention to features it can put out for EVE in our winter expansion and beyond. (Written in Oct '12, the second post in this very thread)
So what we do know is that they put avatar gameplay on hold to focus on incremental updates to FiS and xbox games. But it seems that avatar gameplay whether in exploration or WiS is something that is very much on their radar even now. CCP Unifex mentions focusing on flying in space and I guess we can take the past two incremental expansions as evidence of that. So you can take some comfort in the disappointment of WiS fans as you play the hacking mini-game.
But, as recently as one year ago, avatar gameplay was described as being shelved for the time being. I doubt that that is enough time to actually see WiS or anything like it in the winter expansion.
The past two expansions have been incremental, tentative, and safe. I'd really love to see CCP take on some bold and audacious goals again, something to excite the playerbase and get people inside and outside the game talking about it. We could argue on the forums about how great and awful avatar gameplay is and you can blow up Jita while I walk around in it. Then the gaming press could write about our antics. That's a win for everyone.
The 2013 Winter Expansion: Rebalancius just doesn't get the blood flowing.
Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21047
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 18:33:00 -
[1895] - Quote
Sir Jack Falstaff wrote:The 2013 Winter Expansion: Rebalancius just doesn't get the blood flowing. True, but I still think that's what we will get... alteast this time and maybe next summer... after that, we'll see. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
217
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 20:08:00 -
[1896] - Quote
Sir Jack Falstaff wrote:The 2013 Winter Expansion: Rebalancius just doesn't get the blood flowing.
Maybe not but CCP's focus on fixing spaceships has been very successful considering that subscriptions go up every quarter. As we've already discussed in this thread, the only times subs dropped substantially was when WiS went live.
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1886
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 20:13:00 -
[1897] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Sir Jack Falstaff wrote:The 2013 Winter Expansion: Rebalancius just doesn't get the blood flowing. True, but I still think that's what we will get... alteast this time and maybe next summer... after that, we'll see.
Just saying, right now CCP is handing 50% discount to returning players: resub and get 30 days of gameplay + 30 days of dual training for just 14,95 Gé¼, only until September 29th.
Doesn't looks good.
PS: this year they're not holding "EVE on a beach" and they've been experiencing hardware issues for some months. Cutting down non-essential expenses? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Sir Jack Falstaff
The Not So Jolly Rogers Academy
49
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 21:18:00 -
[1898] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Maybe not but CCP's focus on fixing spaceships has been very successful considering that subscriptions go up every quarter. As we've already discussed in this thread, the only times subs dropped substantially was when WiS went live.
Link? Tranquility usage shows drops in the summers of '11 and '12, but bounces back in the fall-spring. If you have data/press releases that back up your thesis about paid accounts, please share them. I'm asking sincerely. I don't see evidence of decreased usage due to microtransactions or WiS, but I could be missing something. Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1191
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 21:28:00 -
[1899] - Quote
http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png
make of it what you will, but theres the data Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
219
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 21:38:00 -
[1900] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png
make of it what you will, but theres the data
That graph illustrates perfectly why CCP should stay out of the WiS business. There's some additional analysis here: http://mmodata.blogspot.com/2013/08/version-40-thoughts-and-comments.html
Here's the important part:
Quote:Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game.
CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago.
At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world. |
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
643
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 22:10:00 -
[1901] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png
make of it what you will, but theres the data That graph illustrates perfectly why CCP should stay out of the WiS business. There's some additional analysis here: http://mmodata.blogspot.com/2013/08/version-40-thoughts-and-comments.htmlHere's the important part: Quote:Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game.
CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago.
At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world.
I have read you input there is nothing that declarable about wis out of the picture you are just trolling. |
Sir Jack Falstaff
The Not So Jolly Rogers Academy
49
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 22:24:00 -
[1902] - Quote
Thank you both for the informative links. I still maintain that it was the microtransactions (and $1000 jeans) comments that fueled the ragequitting rather than the walking in stations and the article Rhes quotes backs this up. But as microtransactions and avatar play were introduced at the same time, it can be hard to separate the two.
That makes me wonder if this entire thread wasn't a trial balloon by CCP: tell the community they're working on a prototype--just a prototype, mind you, and it's finished, too! So don't be afraid--and gauge customer reaction to the idea of avatar play. Actually, the more I think about it, the surer I am that this is the case. It's no wonder that CCP is a little PTSD over anything Incarna related. They know we hate the idea of pay to win microtransactions, but what about WiS? Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
Sir Jack Falstaff
The Not So Jolly Rogers Academy
49
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 22:28:00 -
[1903] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:I have read you`re input there is nothing that declarable about wis out of the picture you are just trolling. He wasn't tolling. That was useful information that I, a WiS partisan, asked for. We disagree that WiS is damaging to Eve, I'm pro he's con obviously, but he wasn't trolling there. Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
220
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 22:38:00 -
[1904] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:I have read you`re input there is nothing that declarable about wis out of the picture you are just trolling.
Maybe you didn't play when Incarna was released. WiS and microtransactions are tied together and both are bad for the game.
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1846
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 22:50:00 -
[1905] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Johan Civire wrote:I have read you`re input there is nothing that declarable about wis out of the picture you are just trolling. Maybe you didn't play when Incarna was released. WiS and microtransactions are tied together and both are bad for the game.
They really aren't. There is no reason any future WiS content needs to have micro-transactions associated with it. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
220
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 22:53:00 -
[1906] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Johan Civire wrote:I have read you`re input there is nothing that declarable about wis out of the picture you are just trolling. Maybe you didn't play when Incarna was released. WiS and microtransactions are tied together and both are bad for the game. They really aren't. There is no reason any future WiS content needs to have micro-transactions associated with it.
Here's the best thing, though. Considering how successful the game has been since CCP decided to refocus on real Eve content there's no need for them to worry about WiS or microtransactions. Everybody wins!
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1846
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:09:00 -
[1907] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Here's the best thing, though. Considering how successful the game has been since CCP decided to refocus on real Eve content there's no need for them to worry about WiS or microtransactions. Everybody wins!
Yes, retribution was very successful. So far though no data on Odyssey, which I personally think was a flop. The closest thing we have to data talking about subs since Odyssey is the average active number of people logged in. Those numbers went up on the release of Odyssey, and instead of staying up like they did after Retribution they have been falling continuously since to the point they are now as low as they were pre-retribution.
Not that I think this affects the WiS argument. The number of people subbed has nothing to do with it. The only thing that really matters is whether people want it and whether it would be good for the game. If WiS content could attract more subs than we are currently attracting then the current subs are irrelevant. I personally think it could do that. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:15:00 -
[1908] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:The number of people subbed has nothing to do with it.
In a subscription game it's the only metric that matters. I don't know why people keep wanting to ignore it.
If they scrapped their current plan and went all in on WiS and it caused most of the subscribers to stop giving CCP money would you count that as a success? |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21048
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:20:00 -
[1909] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Not that I think this affects the WiS argument. The number of people subbed has nothing to do with it. The only thing that really matters is whether people want it and whether it would be good for the game. If WiS content could attract more subs than we are currently attracting then the current subs are irrelevant. I personally think it could do that. The subs... or better, active players, because I don't think most people unsub right away (PLEX etc.)... are going down 'cause CCP hasn't added anything intresting since Retribution. The new exploration mechanics are a nice to have, but thruth be told, EVE never was a great exploration game... the universe is just too boring for that... and hacking minigames/loot spraying wracks? Sorry, but that's no content... not when compared to Retribution, or any other expansion, for that matter.
The next expansion better bring something really fresh/new/good... not necessarily WiS, but something equally imagniative... or active players will continue to drop, until we are where EVE has been after Incarna... I'm not beeing pessimistic here, only realistic... the novelty of the Retribution changes has worn of, that's obvious fact. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1846
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:31:00 -
[1910] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The number of people subbed has nothing to do with it. In a subscription game it's the only metric that matters. I don't know why people keep wanting to ignore it. If they scrapped their current plan and went all in on WiS and it caused most of the subscribers to stop giving CCP money would you count that as a success?
You really didn't understand what I said. I am saying that as long as WiS would increase subs, it doesn't matter how good the game is doing at the moment. I agree, subs are the only thing that matters, but the current subs are irrelevant. It is only the potential subs gained over the current that matter.
The fact that the game is doing fine does not mean it can not do better. That is what I am saying.
When I said "The number of people subbed has nothing to do with it.", I meant it. Because The number of people who could be subbed, is more important an indicator in this argument. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
645
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:37:00 -
[1911] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The number of people subbed has nothing to do with it. In a subscription game it's the only metric that matters. I don't know why people keep wanting to ignore it. If they scrapped their current plan and went all in on WiS and it caused most of the subscribers to stop giving CCP money would you count that as a success? You really didn't understand what I said. I am saying that as long as WiS would increase subs, it doesn't matter how good the game is doing at the moment. I agree, subs are the only thing that matters, but the current subs are irrelevant. It is only the potential subs gained over the current that matter. The fact that the game is doing fine does not mean it can not do better. That is what I am saying. When I said "The number of people subbed has nothing to do with it.", I meant it. Because The number of people who could be subbed, is more important an indicator in this argument.
This is all based on speculation there is no data that can be backing it up. Even if the login numbers is lower then "normal". perhaps some friends left for that particular reason but that will not say everyone is doing that for the same purpose.
The only thing we can do is wait. Speculation on some matter will not help even when you find the answer the damage is already done.
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:40:00 -
[1912] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I am saying that as long as WiS would increase subs, it doesn't matter how good the game is doing at the moment. I agree, subs are the only thing that matters, but the current subs are irrelevant. It is only the potential subs gained over the current that matter
Your problem is asserting that WiS would increase subs when past history indicates, rather clearly, that it has the opposite effect.
The only time in the history of Eve that subscription count went down was when WiS was released.
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
645
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:46:00 -
[1913] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:I am saying that as long as WiS would increase subs, it doesn't matter how good the game is doing at the moment. I agree, subs are the only thing that matters, but the current subs are irrelevant. It is only the potential subs gained over the current that matter Your problem is asserting that WiS would increase subs when past history indicates, rather clearly, that it has the opposite effect. The only time in the history of Eve that subscription count went down was when WiS was released.
So far i know the subscription was going up even better than expected however after a small time the was dropping fast because of the "older subs leaving" because the are waiting what the want to get in that expansion however the get a broken Mechanic and more bugs even the WiS was release. So the blame WiS about the delay of the fixs the want to have.Taking them almost 2 years to do it right this is where the subscribes fails down. old members quit rage it about the new expansion. blaming WiS for the delay.. Sounds easy right? and thats was the case back then. Not that WiS is a failer.
The work so hard to make WiS good that the forgot about the core players. And that was a big mistake CCP knows that now the focus more in eve then in WiS but wis is not out yet so a small team was release to keep WiS a promise change while the rest focus more on bugs and small new things. And thats what we have now. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1846
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:46:00 -
[1914] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:I am saying that as long as WiS would increase subs, it doesn't matter how good the game is doing at the moment. I agree, subs are the only thing that matters, but the current subs are irrelevant. It is only the potential subs gained over the current that matter Your problem is asserting that WiS would increase subs when past history indicates, rather clearly, that it has the opposite effect. The only time in the history of Eve that subscription count went down was when WiS was released.
That's not true. There was an almost identical drop in subs following Tyrannis*. Also, I would like to say, we never got Walking in Stations. We got 1 crap room. We also got ridiculously over-priced micro transactions, a massive amount of controversy and almost no other content from that expansion because they spent the entire time developing Carbon (which, by the way, we have been reaping the benefit of ever since).
The assertion that "WiS" cause Incarnageddon, is just rubbish. Not least of all because we never got "WiS".
*I correct myself, slightly worse drop in subs following Tyrannis. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:49:00 -
[1915] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:The assertion that "WiS" cause Incarnageddon, is just rubbish. Not least of all because we never got "WiS".
Based on the complete failure of DUST and the fact that WoD is still vaporware do you honestly believe CCP is capable of adding meaningful WiS to Eve? And even if, by some miracle, they were would it worth having them neglect spaceship content again to appease a small group of people who can't live without it?
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1846
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:54:00 -
[1916] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The assertion that "WiS" cause Incarnageddon, is just rubbish. Not least of all because we never got "WiS". Based on the complete failure of DUST and the fact that WoD is still vaporware do you honestly believe CCP is capable of adding meaningful WiS to Eve? And even if, by some miracle, they were would it worth having them neglect spaceship content again to appease a small group of people who can't live without it?
So what your saying is, CCP is **** and we should get used to it? Well excuse me for wanting to have some faith in CCP. As for would I want CCP to neglect spaceship content over WiS? They don't have to neglect it. Also, it's really not a small group of people. This is why you are the minority in this discussion. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:57:00 -
[1917] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The assertion that "WiS" cause Incarnageddon, is just rubbish. Not least of all because we never got "WiS". Based on the complete failure of DUST and the fact that WoD is still vaporware do you honestly believe CCP is capable of adding meaningful WiS to Eve? And even if, by some miracle, they were would it worth having them neglect spaceship content again to appease a small group of people who can't live without it? So what your saying is, CCP is **** and we should get used to it? Well excuse me for wanting to have some faith in CCP. As for would I want CCP to neglect spaceship content over WiS? They don't have to neglect it. Also, it's really not a small group of people. This is why you are the minority in this discussion.
Nope. I think CCP is a pretty good company and they have a great spaceship game that I would hate to see ruined.
And if you think I'm in the minority of players you might want to scroll up and look at the graph again. Or just read back through this thread...there are a few dozen people at most who just can't accept that Eve doesn't need emotes or dance parties to be a great game. |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
645
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 00:00:00 -
[1918] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The assertion that "WiS" cause Incarnageddon, is just rubbish. Not least of all because we never got "WiS". Based on the complete failure of DUST and the fact that WoD is still vaporware do you honestly believe CCP is capable of adding meaningful WiS to Eve? And even if, by some miracle, they were would it worth having them neglect spaceship content again to appease a small group of people who can't live without it?
about Dust however its doomed to die or some miracle need to be happening to keep that game alive. http://crossingzebras.com/2013/06/21/the-tragedy-of-dust-514/
But thats apart from WiS. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 00:01:00 -
[1919] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The assertion that "WiS" cause Incarnageddon, is just rubbish. Not least of all because we never got "WiS". Based on the complete failure of DUST and the fact that WoD is still vaporware do you honestly believe CCP is capable of adding meaningful WiS to Eve? And even if, by some miracle, they were would it worth having them neglect spaceship content again to appease a small group of people who can't live without it? about Dust however its doomed to die or some miracle need to be happening to keep that game alive. http://crossingzebras.com/2013/06/21/the-tragedy-of-dust-514/But thats apart from WiS.
Not really. If CCP isn't able to create a compelling avatar based game why would you think they could add meaningful avatar based gameplay to Eve?
|
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1846
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 00:03:00 -
[1920] - Quote
Rhes wrote: And if you think I'm in the minority of players you might want to scroll up and look at the graph again. Or just read back through this thread...there are a few dozen people at most who just can't accept that Eve doesn't need emotes or dance parties to be a great game.
You really are the king of irrelevant comments. Firstly, I have gone through this thread and I'm sad enough to have actually counted the different unique posters and whether they are pro or con and the cons lose out more than two to one. As for the graph, it has nothing to do with the argument as I have already explained and you seem to have accepted until this last comment. I'm going to sleep. Goodnight. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 00:08:00 -
[1921] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Firstly, I have gone through this thread and I'm sad enough to have actually counted the different unique posters and whether they are pro or con
lol...sure you did
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Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
645
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 00:20:00 -
[1922] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Johan Civire wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The assertion that "WiS" cause Incarnageddon, is just rubbish. Not least of all because we never got "WiS". Based on the complete failure of DUST and the fact that WoD is still vaporware do you honestly believe CCP is capable of adding meaningful WiS to Eve? And even if, by some miracle, they were would it worth having them neglect spaceship content again to appease a small group of people who can't live without it? about Dust however its doomed to die or some miracle need to be happening to keep that game alive. http://crossingzebras.com/2013/06/21/the-tragedy-of-dust-514/But thats apart from WiS. Not really. If CCP isn't able to create a compelling avatar based game why would you think they could add meaningful avatar based gameplay to Eve?
The avatar game play is not needing you will not do everything in eve? do you. If you do everything you will not do it when you don`t like it. See it like a small extra without changing the game play. You don`t want to play it fine. Its not needing.
The content the can make is perhaps just to make a interaction between other people only for now. Just for the lols. The rest is a option for open. |
Sir Jack Falstaff
The Not So Jolly Rogers Academy
49
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 00:28:00 -
[1923] - Quote
The problem, Rhes, with your plan of staying the course and avoiding innovation is that it works great until suddenly, it doesn't. You are correct: subs are the best measure of the company's health, although active users is a very important measure of engagement. You're correct, right now, CCP doesn't need to do anything innovative: subs are strong, engagement is strong. They don't need to do anything. This is the Microsoft 2007 strategy. Windows and Office reign supreme. Who is going to use a phone without a keyboard except a bunch of carebear fools, right?
Unwillingness to change is the recipe for disruptive innovation. The only way a competitor steals the space MMORPG crown from Eve is if Eve lets them. No one, no one, is suggesting that Eve move from its core competency, which is community driven spaceship flying. But Eve needs to improve in areas where it is weak: PvE and customization. That's exactly the weaknesses that avatar play addresses, and creates excitement about the game in the process.
You're suggesting putting the game on autopilot. We know what happens when you do that, and the real world is far less forgiving than Eve. If a disruptive competitor points Eve as it slow boats to a gate, CCP doesn't get to wake up in a new clone. Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
225
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 00:48:00 -
[1924] - Quote
Rhes wrote:They also disbanded Team Avatar. That should tell you everything you need to know.
Team Avatar was brought together for a prototype and the team was disbanded when the prototype was finished and they decided to put further WiS content on hold.
There is nothing we've seen that says WiS content is gone for good.
Rhes wrote:Maybe not but CCP's focus on fixing spaceships has been very successful considering that subscriptions go up every quarter. As we've already discussed in this thread, the only times subs dropped substantially was when WiS went live.
Which had more to do with concerns over Pay 2 Win and several miscommunications between CCP and the player-base and WiS being released as a half-baked feature, not with people not having interest in WiS content.
Rhes wrote:That graph illustrates perfectly why CCP should stay out of the WiS business. There's some additional analysis here: http://mmodata.blogspot.com/2013/08/version-40-thoughts-and-comments.htmlHere's the important part: Quote:Talking about EVE Online, that is still the example of how to do things in the post - WoW era. While CCP thought they were becoming the dinosaur of the industry, and therefore had to implement a cash shop with micro transactions. They realized their mistakes in time ( after their customers reminded them where their loyalty must lie Riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions ). And turned around and got back on track making EVE Online a better game.
CCP is being rewarded now, with a PCU ( peak concurrent users ) of over 65.000 and over 500.000 monthly playing subscribers and a continued growth every year since release, now more than 10 years ago.
At this moment EVE Online is the second biggest subscription based MMORPG in the west, and the only subscription based MMORPG that is still growing in the west and probably in the world.
Which says absolutely nothing about WiS further reinforcing my point. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:03:00 -
[1925] - Quote
Sir Jack Falstaff wrote:The problem, Rhes, with your plan of staying the course and avoiding innovation is that it works great until suddenly, it doesn't. You are correct: subs are the best measure of the company's health, although active users is a very important measure of engagement. You're correct, right now, CCP doesn't need to do anything innovative: subs are strong, engagement is strong. They don't need to do anything. This is the Microsoft 2007 strategy. Windows and Office reign supreme. Who is going to use a phone without a keyboard except a bunch of carebear fools, right?
Unwillingness to change is the recipe for disruptive innovation. The only way a competitor steals the space MMORPG crown from Eve is if Eve lets them. No one, no one, is suggesting that Eve move from its core competency, which is community driven spaceship flying. But Eve needs to improve in areas where it is weak: PvE and customization. That's exactly the weaknesses that avatar play addresses, and creates excitement about the game in the process.
You're suggesting putting the game on autopilot. We know what happens when you do that, and the real world is far less forgiving than Eve. If a disruptive competitor points Eve as it slow boats to a gate, CCP doesn't get to wake up in a new clone.
I'm not asking for CCP to stop expanding Eve or put it on autopilot. What I hope they don't do is try to expand it in a way that they tried once before and it almost killed the game.
The problem with space Barbie enthusiasts is they can't see any other way for Eve to expand other than WiS and that's just narrowminded.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:06:00 -
[1926] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Which says absolutely nothing about WiS further reinforcing my point.
It's not worded very well but as we've already established (several times) in this thread it was the fact that Eve was ignored for two years while WiS/microtransactions were being worked on that caused people to riot. If the captains quarters had just magically appeared one day nobody would have cared much but after going two years with broken or unfinished Eve content it was insulting to log in and see a room with a couch. If that was all they could come up with in two years then they should forget about WiS and just focus on what they are good at.
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
646
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:10:00 -
[1927] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Sir Jack Falstaff wrote:The problem, Rhes, with your plan of staying the course and avoiding innovation is that it works great until suddenly, it doesn't. You are correct: subs are the best measure of the company's health, although active users is a very important measure of engagement. You're correct, right now, CCP doesn't need to do anything innovative: subs are strong, engagement is strong. They don't need to do anything. This is the Microsoft 2007 strategy. Windows and Office reign supreme. Who is going to use a phone without a keyboard except a bunch of carebear fools, right?
Unwillingness to change is the recipe for disruptive innovation. The only way a competitor steals the space MMORPG crown from Eve is if Eve lets them. No one, no one, is suggesting that Eve move from its core competency, which is community driven spaceship flying. But Eve needs to improve in areas where it is weak: PvE and customization. That's exactly the weaknesses that avatar play addresses, and creates excitement about the game in the process.
You're suggesting putting the game on autopilot. We know what happens when you do that, and the real world is far less forgiving than Eve. If a disruptive competitor points Eve as it slow boats to a gate, CCP doesn't get to wake up in a new clone. I'm not asking for CCP to stop expanding Eve or put it on autopilot. What I hope they don't do is try to expand it in a way that they tried once before and it almost killed the game. The problem with space Barbie enthusiasts is they can't see any other way for Eve to expand other than WiS and that's just narrowminded.
Thats not.. Like i say that before the put 1 team in the WiS "avatar" thats what 10 man? The rest still focus the main eve part new ships balance here and there put some tweaks and so on. Thats like 3/4 of there people. So you think the avatar game play will remove spaceships because of a avatar walking to a other player is a game breaking technology in eve or what? its a interaction not a game changing. You don`t want to use you`re barbie fine no one will care |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:14:00 -
[1928] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Thats not.. Like i say that before the put 1 team in the WiS "avatar" thats what 10 man? The rest still focus the main eve part new ships balance here and there put some tweaks and so on. Thats like 3/4 of there people. So you think the avatar game play will remove spaceships because of a avatar walking to a other player is a game breaking technology in eve or what? its a interaction not a game changing. You don`t want to use you`re barbie fine no one will care
Any resource (whether it's money or manpower) they put into WiS is a resource that's not spent on real Eve gameplay.
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
646
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:22:00 -
[1929] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Johan Civire wrote:Thats not.. Like i say that before the put 1 team in the WiS "avatar" thats what 10 man? The rest still focus the main eve part new ships balance here and there put some tweaks and so on. Thats like 3/4 of there people. So you think the avatar game play will remove spaceships because of a avatar walking to a other player is a game breaking technology in eve or what? its a interaction not a game changing. You don`t want to use you`re barbie fine no one will care Any resource (whether it's money or manpower) they put into WiS is a resource that's not spent on real Eve gameplay.
Also not true because thats a different team and not part of the regular eve crew. So the hired to do WiS without losing any real ccp member. So the have 5/4 crew. So there is no worry`s about losing resource. The gain resource. And the best part is its not the team on Iceland but in japan a other ccp partner |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:28:00 -
[1930] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:The subs... or better, active players, because I don't think most people unsub right away (PLEX etc.)... are going down 'cause CCP hasn't added anything intresting since Retribution. The new exploration mechanics are a nice to have, but thruth be told, EVE never was a great exploration game... the universe is just too boring for that... and hacking minigames/loot spraying wracks? Sorry, but that's no content... not when compared to Retribution, or any other expansion, for that matter.
The next expansion better bring something really fresh/new/good... not necessarily WiS, but something equally imagniative... or active players will continue to drop, until we are where EVE has been after Incarna... I'm not beeing pessimistic here, only realistic... the novelty of the Retribution changes has worn of, that's obvious fact.
Actually active players have been going up overall. The game has, historically, shown a drop in player activity going into winter every year going back several years as people go back to school and money gets tighter going into winter.
Rhes wrote:It's not worded very well but as we've already established (several times) in this thread it was the fact that Eve was ignored for two years while WiS/microtransactions were being worked on that caused people to riot. If the captains quarters had just magically appeared one day nobody would have cared much but after going two years with broken or unfinished Eve content it was insulting to log in and see a room with a couch. If that was all they could come up with in two years then they should forget about WiS and just focus on what they are good at.
So far there's been no evidence to support this and anyone who knows anything about game development knows this is false. In the time WiS was in development Eve had several very good expansions. Yes, they released an incomplete feature that was rather disappointing compared to the hype, but that's a problem with over-hyping the feature and then releasing it in an incomplete state. Yes, there were some long-standing issues with in-space features but those are being addressed. Once they've finished with updating POSes, Sov, and ship balancing we'll likely see a return to WiS content. |
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:30:00 -
[1931] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Any resource (whether it's money or manpower) they put into WiS is a resource that's not spent on real Eve gameplay.
Except that WiS is part of "real Eve gameplay"
Just because you, personally, don't like it doesn't make it any less a valid part of the game. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:30:00 -
[1932] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Rhes wrote:Johan Civire wrote:Thats not.. Like i say that before the put 1 team in the WiS "avatar" thats what 10 man? The rest still focus the main eve part new ships balance here and there put some tweaks and so on. Thats like 3/4 of there people. So you think the avatar game play will remove spaceships because of a avatar walking to a other player is a game breaking technology in eve or what? its a interaction not a game changing. You don`t want to use you`re barbie fine no one will care Any resource (whether it's money or manpower) they put into WiS is a resource that's not spent on real Eve gameplay. Also not true because thats a different team and not part of the regular eve crew. So the hired to do WiS without losing any real ccp member. So the have 5/4 crew. So there is no worry`s about losing resource. The gain resource. And the best part is its not the team on Iceland but in japan a other ccp partner
So who is paying this "different team" that's going to do WiS? |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:30:00 -
[1933] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Rhes wrote:Any resource (whether it's money or manpower) they put into WiS is a resource that's not spent on real Eve gameplay.
Except that WiS is part of "real Eve gameplay" Just because you, personally, don't like it doesn't make it any less a valid part of the game.
Nope. Eve is spaceships and the industry that supports them.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:33:00 -
[1934] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Yes, there were some long-standing issues with in-space features but those are being addressed.
Exactly my point. They are being fixed because CCP stopped with the WiS nonsense and promised to focus on spaceships.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:37:00 -
[1935] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Nope. Eve is spaceships and the industry that supports them.
In your opinion. Your opinion is not the only valid one.
Plus WiS content can very much support the in-space content. The entire Team Avatar prototype was exploring wrecks and sounded really awesome.
Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Yes, there were some long-standing issues with in-space features but those are being addressed. Exactly my point. They are being fixed because CCP stopped with the WiS nonsense and promised to focus on spaceships.
Way to completely take one line out of context. Yeah, no, they shelved WiS, they didn't abandon it. Again, if that makes you upset then I suggest you take your own advice and un-sub and tell them why in the reasons section. |
Sir Jack Falstaff
The Not So Jolly Rogers Academy
49
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:38:00 -
[1936] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Which says absolutely nothing about WiS further reinforcing my point. It's not worded very well but as we've already established (several times) in this thread it was the fact that Eve was ignored for two years while WiS/microtransactions were being worked on that caused people to riot. If the captains quarters had just magically appeared one day nobody would have cared much but after going two years with broken or unfinished Eve content it was insulting to log in and see a room with a couch. If that was all they could come up with in two years then they should forget about WiS and just focus on what they are good at. Finally, something cogent and intelligent and not insults about barbies. More like this please. I finally, after pages and pages of back and forth, understand where you're coming from.
Is your argument then, that you feel CCP is not capable of implementing WiS in a professional and worthy manner? Then make that argument. It's a better argument than insults and deliberately conflating the microtransactions fiasco with the WiS implementation. You're right. The CQ is half assed. You'll get no argument from me on that one.
If your argument is that CCP can't do avatar play right, then make that argument. It's your best one so far. Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:40:00 -
[1937] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Johan Civire wrote:Also not true because thats a different team and not part of the regular eve crew. So the hired to do WiS without losing any real ccp member. So the have 5/4 crew. So there is no worry`s about losing resource. The gain resource. And the best part is its not the team on Iceland but in japan a other ccp partner So who is paying this "different team" that's going to do WiS?
Also not how development works. If they feel that WiS will make the game more successful then they can afford to budget in an entirely new team for that since it will bring in more subs. Throwing more teams at a narrow feature set has diminishing returns since you can only have so many people working on a specific feature before they start stepping on each-other's toes. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:45:00 -
[1938] - Quote
Sir Jack Falstaff wrote:Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Which says absolutely nothing about WiS further reinforcing my point. It's not worded very well but as we've already established (several times) in this thread it was the fact that Eve was ignored for two years while WiS/microtransactions were being worked on that caused people to riot. If the captains quarters had just magically appeared one day nobody would have cared much but after going two years with broken or unfinished Eve content it was insulting to log in and see a room with a couch. If that was all they could come up with in two years then they should forget about WiS and just focus on what they are good at. Finally, something cogent and intelligent and not insults about barbies. More like this please. I finally, after pages and pages of back and forth, understand where you're coming from. Is your argument then, that you feel CCP is not capable of implementing WiS in a professional and worthy manner? Then make that argument. It's a better argument than insults and deliberately conflating the microtransactions fiasco with the WiS implementation. You're right. The CQ is half assed. You'll get no argument from me on that one. If your argument is that CCP can't do avatar play right, then make that argument. It's your best one so far.
I've made the argument several times. Just look at the state of CCP's two avatar based games: DUST is a failure and WoD is vaporware.
The problem is that despite that evidence there is a small group of Eve players who insist that CCP ignore history and ignore their track record and waste more time and money on game mechanics that aren't going to improve Eve's core gameplay. Gameplay that has continued to bring new subscribers to the game steadily since they promised to refocus their efforts to improve it.
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:48:00 -
[1939] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Rhes wrote:Johan Civire wrote:Also not true because thats a different team and not part of the regular eve crew. So the hired to do WiS without losing any real ccp member. So the have 5/4 crew. So there is no worry`s about losing resource. The gain resource. And the best part is its not the team on Iceland but in japan a other ccp partner So who is paying this "different team" that's going to do WiS? Also not how development works. If they feel that WiS will make the game more successful then they can afford to budget in an entirely new team for that since it will bring in more subs. Throwing more teams at a narrow feature set has diminishing returns since you can only have so many people working on a specific feature before they start stepping on each-other's toes.
What evidence do you have that more WiS content will make the game more successful? The last time they tried it the game's subscribers nosedived. |
Cpt Tirel
Tyrfing Industries Viro Mors Non Est
55
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:48:00 -
[1940] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Yes, there were some long-standing issues with in-space features but those are being addressed. Exactly my point. They are being fixed because CCP stopped with the WiS nonsense and promised to focus on spaceships.
no |
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:50:00 -
[1941] - Quote
Rhes wrote:I've made the argument several times. Just look at the state of CCP's two avatar based games: DUST is a failure and WoD is vaporware.
The problem is that despite that evidence there is a small group of Eve players who insist that CCP ignore history and ignore their track record and waste more time and money on game mechanics that aren't going to improve Eve's core gameplay. Gameplay that has continued to bring new subscribers to the game steadily since they promised to refocus their efforts to improve it.
WoD is in what is basically pre-production from what we know, that's not Vaporware.
Dust 514 isn't a failure until it shuts down, which doesn't seem to be happening. CCP have been talking with the CPM and have committed to improving the game and fixing the issues that it has. The people I've talked to who actually play Dust seem pretty optimistic that it'll be in a good state a year from now. |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
138
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:51:00 -
[1942] - Quote
Rhes wrote:The problem with space Barbie enthusiasts is they can't see any other way for Eve to expand other than WiS and that's just narrowminded.
Sorry, buddy, but that's you who's narrowminded here.
All you do in every your post is spam the same thing: "WiS caused fallout in eve," "space barbies"(going as low as calling people "furries", while saying p2p(or switch to p2p with microtransactions due to WiS implementation) would kill eve.
1). WiS wasn't released. The demo version of it was neither WiS, nor Incarna. The preview of WiS - sure. Preview of poor release and poor addition of microtransactions - sure. You keep ignoring these comments, and you were told this multiple times.
2). Barbies and furries stay in 2nd Life. You clearly overplayed that game, since these silly insults just cannot disappear from this thread for some reason.
Eve doesn't need to reinvent the wheel - whomever needs dance parties can go to 2nd life - what eve needs is good model that would facilitate interaction between players. Just in case you forgot - that doesn't mean we need to have dance parties.
All we need is a nice mechanic. For instance: I would love to be able to go to my locator agent office, track your stubborn Rhes ass, so I could sneak up on you in dark alley (some rusty station environment) and beat the pulp out of your character with my knee high boots(purchased from Nex store coincidentally). Then I could open a nearby waste disposal hatchet to trash your useless Biomass.
Now.. The stuff from Nex store shouldn't provide any advantage other than make my avatar look classy. It would be just an additional revenue for CCP. Some people are quite willing to spend cash. SC is one of many many examples. CCP deserves a good piece of that pie imo.
But - the game stays sub-based, while micro-transactions provide additional ISK sink. People who are willing to spend on eyecandy - it can be a fancy suit , shoes, whatever piece of gear that provides a character distinctive memorable look - will buy more Plex. More bought Plex - more cash for CCP, more money for development. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:54:00 -
[1943] - Quote
Rhes wrote:What evidence do you have that more WiS content will make the game more successful? The last time they tried it the game's subscribers nosedived.
Dipped, not nose-dived. And I've heard, repeatedly, from lots of people who stuck with Eve and who didn't that the character creator is extremely cool and that they wish they could do more with those avatars than walk around a little room.
Avatars help players become more invested in their characters and the continuous demand for more clothing even without an environment to show it off in shows that there is demand for these features even from the current player-base.
Your evidence consists of a single data-point where WiS wasn't even the primary issue, the cost of the Microtransactions, concerns over "golden ammo", and misinterpretation of things like the "18 months" controversy are what actually drove the dip in subscriptions. WiS was unpopular not because it was WiS but because it was unfinished and people felt that CCP wasn't addressing concerns with core features. None of this means people don't like WiS, it means they don't like half-finished features... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:57:00 -
[1944] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:But - the game stays sub-based, while micro-transactions provide additional ISK sink. People who are willing to spend on eyecandy - it can be a fancy suit , shoes, whatever piece of gear that provides a character distinctive memorable look - will buy more Plex. More bought Plex - more cash for CCP, more money for development.
The problem is that the space barbie crowd won't be satisfied with more clothes. Next they will want more emotes, then dance parties, then full on furry sex dungeons. The nonsense will never stop.
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:58:00 -
[1945] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Dipped, not nose-dived.
CCP paid for the entire CSM to fly to Iceland for an (unplanned) emergency summit during the summer of rage. They were very scared about the state of the game.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 02:00:00 -
[1946] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Dipped, not nose-dived. CCP paid for the entire CSM to fly to Iceland for an (unplanned) emergency summit during the summer of rage. They were very scared about the state of the game.
Can you stop addressing tiny little pieces of my post and actually address the main argument that refutes your points? Thanks.
Yes, they were concerned, there was a lot of anger in the community and they needed to address that. Again though, WiS as an idea was not the main issue. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 02:01:00 -
[1947] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:But - the game stays sub-based, while micro-transactions provide additional ISK sink. People who are willing to spend on eyecandy - it can be a fancy suit , shoes, whatever piece of gear that provides a character distinctive memorable look - will buy more Plex. More bought Plex - more cash for CCP, more money for development. The problem is that the space barbie crowd won't be satisfied with more clothes. Next they will want more emotes, then dance parties, then full on furry sex dungeons. The nonsense will never stop.
Slippery Slope argument ahead!!! |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
139
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 02:33:00 -
[1948] - Quote
Rhes wrote: The problem is that the space barbie crowd won't be satisfied with more clothes. Next they will want more emotes, then dance parties, then full on furry sex dungeons. The nonsense will never stop.
Does it mean that evil space barbies would make you participate? Or would it be too hard for you to resist the urge to join those dungeons?
Also if they are charged good amt for those emotes and fluff - more money for ccp to work on spaceships, right? |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 02:45:00 -
[1949] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Rhes wrote: The problem is that the space barbie crowd won't be satisfied with more clothes. Next they will want more emotes, then dance parties, then full on furry sex dungeons. The nonsense will never stop.
Does it mean that evil space barbies would make you participate? Or would it be too hard for you to resist the urge to join those dungeons? Also if they are charged good amt for those emotes and fluff - more money for ccp to work on spaceships, right?
No the problem is the development time and money spent on emotes and sex dungeons. It's time and money that's not spent on real Eve gameplay.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
222
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 02:46:00 -
[1950] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Rhes wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:But - the game stays sub-based, while micro-transactions provide additional ISK sink. People who are willing to spend on eyecandy - it can be a fancy suit , shoes, whatever piece of gear that provides a character distinctive memorable look - will buy more Plex. More bought Plex - more cash for CCP, more money for development. The problem is that the space barbie crowd won't be satisfied with more clothes. Next they will want more emotes, then dance parties, then full on furry sex dungeons. The nonsense will never stop. Slippery Slope argument ahead!!!
It's like you haven't read this thread and seen what they are asking for. You should try it. |
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
231
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:01:00 -
[1951] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Rhes wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:But - the game stays sub-based, while micro-transactions provide additional ISK sink. People who are willing to spend on eyecandy - it can be a fancy suit , shoes, whatever piece of gear that provides a character distinctive memorable look - will buy more Plex. More bought Plex - more cash for CCP, more money for development. The problem is that the space barbie crowd won't be satisfied with more clothes. Next they will want more emotes, then dance parties, then full on furry sex dungeons. The nonsense will never stop. Slippery Slope argument ahead!!! It's like you haven't read this thread and seen what they are asking for. You should try it.
No, I've seen what they're asking for the part where your argument falls apart is the assumption that improvement on WiS would somehow take over all of Eve development. There's nothing wrong with CCP iterating on WiS, just like anyone who complains about null-sec iteration just because they spend all of their time in High-Sec is being silly.
Also you're still not responding to people who actually refute your arguments. Should we take failure to respond as agreement? |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
250
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:05:00 -
[1952] - Quote
Rhes is having furrie flashbacks again
At least its obvious you care about the game so you get respect from me in that aspect but it still saddens me that you lop all role-players in the furrie category. Not nice and not true, but anyway to grab folks attention eh?
/Shock value "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1192
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:08:00 -
[1953] - Quote
Rhes wrote:It's like you haven't read this thread and seen what they are asking for. You should try it.
Yeah, besides the terrible arguments, that's the main problem with this thread. Trying to suggest that there is some consensus vision for WiS is beyond farcical given even the laziest perusal of this thread. There are so many diverse and largely conflicting visions for what constitutes WiS content, and in particular what the priorities and development path should be, that any claim to represent a common ideal is blatantly false.
If these WiS champions actually gave a crap about implementations, they'd organize to suss out a coherent and comprehensive vision that satisfies a majority proportion of WiS proponents. Instead, however, they will continue to fill another hundred pages of ridiculous and ultimately impotent arguments. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
139
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:08:00 -
[1954] - Quote
Rhes wrote: No the problem is the development time and money spent on emotes and sex dungeons. It's time and money that's not spent on real Eve gameplay.
You are the one insisting on that they would develop this anyway. The laws in Iceland would not allow it probably, since they seek to outlaw **** already.
But is this really all you can come up with? If they don't include furries or whatever "possible" sexual content that you came up with so far, - which for some mysterious reason would be included in WiS - does it mean you really would have noting against WiS?
I gave you my small version of how avatar interaction could look like. But you sound like a broken vinyl record. Show me on this doll where 2nd life furries touched you. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
724
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:12:00 -
[1955] - Quote
Rhes is trolling. And not very well at that.
CCP have committed to meaningful avatar gameplay. Rhes will have to learn to deal with that.
Babbling about furry sex parties is a great way to ensure that CCP will ignore his gibberish
Thank you for removing yourself from the discussion. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
231
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:32:00 -
[1956] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Yeah, besides the terrible arguments, that's the main problem with this thread. Trying to suggest that there is some consensus vision for WiS is beyond farcical given even the laziest perusal of this thread. There are so many diverse and largely conflicting visions for what constitutes WiS content, and in particular what the priorities and development path should be, that any claim to represent a common ideal is blatantly false.
If these WiS champions actually gave a crap about implementations, they'd organize to suss out a coherent and comprehensive vision that satisfies a majority proportion of WiS proponents. Instead, however, they will continue to fill another hundred pages of ridiculous and ultimately impotent arguments.
So? There isn't a coherent vision of what in-space content should look like either. Just take a look at Features and Ideas Discussion. We have everything from "separate high sec empires with low sec" to "make ganking impossible". Neither of these are particularly likely to happen. Never mind the huge number of opinions on cloaking, local, and a dozen other less "popularly controversial" features.
If anything it's good to have a wide variety of different suggestions, as long as no one gets bent out of shape that their exact suggestions isn't what happens (asking a lot, I know), because that gives CCP more ideas to work off of and gives them a general idea of where the community's interests are. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
224
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:32:00 -
[1957] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Rhes wrote:It's almost like you guys have never met a furry irl. Blawrf on jabber is too much already
Those broadcasts about moon scanning are starting to haunt my dreams.
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
231
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:37:00 -
[1958] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Also you're still not responding to people who actually refute your arguments. Should we take failure to respond as agreement? As soon as somebody actually refutes one of my arguments I'll respond.
Well, you certainly haven't been attempting to refute people's counter-arguments so... again, agreement?
People cite sources and provide counter examples and you pick one tiny little word you don't like and respond to that. That's not even good trolling, let alone constructive debate. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1192
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:40:00 -
[1959] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:So? There isn't a coherent vision of what in-space content should look like either.
Except one is an existing game and the other is not. Again, just absolutely terrible arguments. If you can't understand why conflicting visions lessens the impact of a purported group's influence, then i don't know what can be done further to help you.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
231
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:45:00 -
[1960] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:So? There isn't a coherent vision of what in-space content should look like either. Except one is an existing game and the other is not. Again, just absolutely terrible arguments. If you can't understand why conflicting visions lessens the impact of a purported group's influence, then i don't know what can be done further to help you.
Because... it doesn't? The important thing from a game developer's point of view is interest in the feature, not a coherent vision of what the feature is supposed to be. That's the job of the devs, not the players. |
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1192
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:53:00 -
[1961] - Quote
K, under that logic, I'm going to start a thread demanding more "fun stuff".
******* WiS retards.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
231
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:59:00 -
[1962] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:K, under that logic I'm going to start a thread demanding more "fun stuff".
Except that "fun stuff" is not a feature or even a remotely coherent idea. This thread expresses interest in more Avatar gameplay.
Your logic seems to be that the devs are going to say "oh, they're interested in more Avatar stuff... but they don't know exactly what they want so lets not give them anything until they agree on what they want".
Because the forums are totally known for people agreeing on exactly what they want from a given feature or area of gameplay... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 04:10:00 -
[1963] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Rhes wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Also you're still not responding to people who actually refute your arguments. Should we take failure to respond as agreement? As soon as somebody actually refutes one of my arguments I'll respond. Well, you certainly haven't been attempting to refute people's counter-arguments so... again, agreement? People cite sources and provide counter examples and you pick one tiny little word you don't like and respond to that. That's not even good trolling, let alone constructive debate.
No, I read a post and as soon as I find something stupid I respond to it. I figure once I find a dumb argument in the first sentence of the post there's probably no reason for me to worry about the rest.
As for citations there was a graph and a link to a blog post that explained the graph a few pages back. Take another look at both of them. For the rest of it you'll have to remember back to the summer of rage if you were playing back then.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 04:11:00 -
[1964] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:K, under that logic I'm going to start a thread demanding more "fun stuff".
******* WiS retards.
Making fun of people who play a spaceship game but whine about a lack of space pants is p fun. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1192
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 04:12:00 -
[1965] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Because the forums are totally known for people agreeing on exactly what they want from a given feature or area of gameplay...
Because the forums are totally known for directing Eve development...
How can you not see how stupid you are?
The only time the forums have a hope of rising above the usual perennial insignificance is when the community articulates a generally consistent and coherent argument. Otherwise you're just part of the general cacophony, like this thread.
Unless your response is a sharp tack from the last few mindless responses, I'm done arguing with retards for the night.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1192
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 04:14:00 -
[1966] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:K, under that logic I'm going to start a thread demanding more "fun stuff".
******* WiS retards. Making fun of people who play a spaceship game but whine about a lack of space pants is p fun.
Agreed. I always feel a little better after reading the latest regurgitated idiocy in this thread.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
226
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 04:15:00 -
[1967] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:The only time the forums have a hope of rising above the usual perennial insignificance is when the community articulates a generally consistent and coherent argument.
Or when those forum posts are accompanied by subscription cancellations. Kind of like what happened after Incarna was released.
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1192
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 04:19:00 -
[1968] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:The only time the forums have a hope of rising above the usual perennial insignificance is when the community articulates a generally consistent and coherent argument. Or when those forum posts are accompanied by subscription cancellations. Kind of like what happened after Incarna was released.
Fair point So obvious as to normally not seem to be worth mentioning, but with this crowd it probably was.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
234
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 05:25:00 -
[1969] - Quote
Rhes wrote:No, I read a post and as soon as I find something stupid I respond to it. I figure once I find a dumb argument in the first sentence of the post there's probably no reason for me to worry about the rest.
As for citations there was a graph and a link to a blog post that explained the graph a few pages back. Take another look at both of them. For the rest of it you'll have to remember back to the summer of rage if you were playing back then.
Yes, I read both. I was the person to originally link both of them about 10 pages back.
Also your failure to read does not make my argument invalid, it just makes you a poor debater and a poor troll.
Rhes wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:The only time the forums have a hope of rising above the usual perennial insignificance is when the community articulates a generally consistent and coherent argument. Or when those forum posts are accompanied by subscription cancellations. Kind of like what happened after Incarna was released.
I'm assuming neither of you follow Features and Ideas Discussion very much, if at all... You don't have to make a unified point, just a good one, preferably with well supported evidence.
The forums don't drag development along by the nose they give it directions it can follow. Sometimes a dev will go "oh, that's a good suggestion!" and go with that, and other times the players aren't seeing something and therefore their suggestions get ignored.
Every rebalance going back to the frigates has been affected by player feedback and almost none of it was "unified" |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1056
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 07:29:00 -
[1970] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Because the forums are totally known for people agreeing on exactly what they want from a given feature or area of gameplay... Because the forums are totally known for directing Eve development... How can you not see how stupid you are? The only time the forums have a hope of rising above the usual perennial insignificance is when the community articulates a generally consistent and coherent argument. Otherwise you're just part of the general cacophony, like this thread. Unless your response is a sharp tack from the last few mindless responses, I'm done arguing with retards for the night.
Hey another one with the same tactic. This time trying to derail normal discussion with insults Nice going ,another one not to be taken seriously
Besides there were a lot of WIS threads over the last couple years ,some big ones. So it is naturally ,after all the good and bad ideas ,people have different visions about an non existing feature (yet) When Team Avatar came up with the exploration idea ,almost every WIS lover said yes. It is always better then a minigame in space R.S.I2014
|
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Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
219
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 08:13:00 -
[1971] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Can you stop addressing tiny little pieces of my post and actually address the main argument that refutes your points? Thanks.
A helpful reminder:
"Arguing with a Goon on the topic of WiS is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory." -adapted from a well known quote by Scott D. Weitzenhoffer . |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
238
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 08:42:00 -
[1972] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Can you stop addressing tiny little pieces of my post and actually address the main argument that refutes your points? Thanks.
A helpful reminder: "Arguing with a Goon on the topic of WiS is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory." - adapted from a well known quote by Scott D. Weitzenhoffer .
Hahahaha, oh man, I laughed so hard at this because it's so true |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1886
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 09:22:00 -
[1973] - Quote
What it doesn't makes sense is that CCP is more willing to devaluate EVE than to let players buy the vanity items they alredy have developed & QA'ed and are ready to switch from "seed_0" to "seed_1".
It's ludicrous. I've made my mind to give 50 euros to Chris Roberts if he adds "girly" avatar content to Star Citizen, but I can't even see why CCP is not willing to take my money for a bloody dress for my bloody avatar when that dress has been sitting on Singularity for no less than 29 months.
These icelanders are crazy! The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
238
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 09:31:00 -
[1974] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:What it doesn't makes sense is that CCP is more willing to devaluate EVE than to let players buy the vanity items they alredy have developed & QA'ed and are ready to switch from "seed_0" to "seed_1". It's ludicrous. I've made my mind to give 50 euros to Chris Roberts if he adds "girly" avatar content to Star Citizen, but I can't even see why CCP is not willing to take my money for a bloody dress for my bloody avatar when that dress has been sitting on Singularity for no less than 29 months.These icelanders are crazy!
No clue, maybe it's part of the collector's edition stuff.
That said, I wouldn't expect Star Citizen avatars to be as impressive as Eve ones. the CryEngine is pretty good, but right now Carbon does better characters. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
238
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 10:01:00 -
[1975] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:i don,t mind avatars with less detail
I just meant that one of the reasons the Eve Avatars have been popular and interesting is how detailed they are. Other games tend to give you a very basic selection of faces, bodies, and maybe a few sliders or a color palette to customize things with. We get a lot more than that, to the point where seeing someone with the same portrait these days is a very disconcerting experience.
At the time they released they beat out the latest Bioware game of the time for Avatar customization and that's no small feat. |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
646
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 10:02:00 -
[1976] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:What it doesn't makes sense is that CCP is more willing to devaluate EVE than to let players buy the vanity items they alredy have developed & QA'ed and are ready to switch from "seed_0" to "seed_1". It's ludicrous. I've made my mind to give 50 euros to Chris Roberts if he adds "girly" avatar content to Star Citizen, but I can't even see why CCP is not willing to take my money for a bloody dress for my bloody avatar when that dress has been sitting on Singularity for no less than 29 months.These icelanders are crazy!
Collectors edition or some part of promotion. You need to ask them why? |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
1852
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 10:35:00 -
[1977] - Quote
The sheer volume of drivel that comes out of Rhes is frankly amazing.
All of your arguments have been covered time and time again throughout this thread. I remember now why I stopped posting before, because I got tired of repeating myself to people who will just throw the same discredited arguments up over and over again. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1058
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 10:43:00 -
[1978] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:i don,t mind avatars with less detail I just meant that one of the reasons the Eve Avatars have been popular and interesting is how detailed they are. Other games tend to give you a very basic selection of faces, bodies, and maybe a few sliders or a color palette to customize things with. We get a lot more than that, to the point where seeing someone with the same portrait these days is a very disconcerting experience. At the time they released they beat out the latest Bioware game of the time for Avatar customization and that's no small feat.
I know what you mean ,but tell that to a great part of the community ,that use a system that can,t even handle the char creator ,let alone let it walk around that one room. Until now i was able to keep my gear up to speed ,by buying every 2,3 or 4 years a new pc and when needed replace components like the video card ,but not everybody does that. Maybe the problem of some of the Goons is not dolls in space ,but they play this game on a overrated calculator and instead just confessing that ,they bring on the old space barbie stuff R.S.I2014
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1058
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 10:45:00 -
[1979] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:The sheer volume of drivel that comes out of Rhes is frankly amazing.
All of your arguments have been covered time and time again throughout this thread. I remember now why I stopped posting before, because I got tired of repeating myself to people who will just throw the same discredited arguments up over and over again. I am still wondering why people reply on him. the bad thing is ,when people do, i still see his repetitive futile attempts.
R.S.I2014
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
239
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 10:49:00 -
[1980] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:I know what you mean ,but tell that to a great part of the community ,that use a system that can,t even handle the char creator ,let alone let it walk around that one room. Until now i was able to keep my gear up to speed ,by buying every 2,3 or 4 years a new pc and when needed replace components like the video card ,but not everybody does that. Maybe the problem of some of the Goons is not dolls in space ,but they play this game on a overrated calculator and instead just confessing that ,they bring on the old space barbie stuff
Maybe, but those people should be even less concerned about Star Citizen because if the system requirements for the hangar are any indication the overall game is going to be worse on your hardware than the Eve Captain's Quarters is now, and it has plenty of room to be optimized and will probably always be optional to some degree.
Also I prefer to classify all horribly old PCs as toasters since you can find some rather powerful calculators these days |
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1058
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 10:54:00 -
[1981] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:I know what you mean ,but tell that to a great part of the community ,that use a system that can,t even handle the char creator ,let alone let it walk around that one room. Until now i was able to keep my gear up to speed ,by buying every 2,3 or 4 years a new pc and when needed replace components like the video card ,but not everybody does that. Maybe the problem of some of the Goons is not dolls in space ,but they play this game on a overrated calculator and instead just confessing that ,they bring on the old space barbie stuff Maybe, but those people should be even less concerned about Star Citizen because if the system requirements for the hangar are any indication the overall game is going to be worse on your hardware than the Eve Captain's Quarters is now, and it has plenty of room to be optimized and will probably always be optional to some degree. Also I prefer to classify all horribly old PCs as toasters since you can find some rather powerful calculators these days
Indeed ,but it is the fear for not being able to play this game anymore
Anyway give it some time and SC will probably have the same nice avatars R.S.I2014
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
728
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:04:00 -
[1982] - Quote
I'd rather that CCP made some decisions bout the NeX store (remove on improve) before adding more customisation options.
As in game stores go its pretty terrible . I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
239
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:05:00 -
[1983] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Indeed ,but it is the fear for not being able to play this game anymore
Anyway give it some time and SC will probably have the same nice avatars
Maybe, but they'll likely have more important things to do for launch and just after launch, and customizable avatars are a lot of work compared to just modeling all your characters and NPCs individually. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
239
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:06:00 -
[1984] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I'd rather that CCP made some decisions bout the NeX store (remove on improve) before adding more customisation options.
As in game stores go its pretty terrible .
Yeah, but mostly due to lack of content and lack of feature iteration. An improved NeX store kind of goes along with WiS iteration |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21050
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:47:00 -
[1985] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Anyway give it some time and SC will probably have the same nice avatars Well, there will be character customization... the flight suit avatars wear right now is only a placeholder, as far as I know... civilian cloths and combat gear/weapons have already been confirmed/shown off.
Cade Windstalker wrote:Yeah, but mostly due to lack of content and lack of feature iteration. An improved NeX store kind of goes along with WiS iteration True... as it stands, the CQ and the NeX are not much more then a "teaser of what's maybe to come"... and they have been for quite some time now. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 15:17:00 -
[1986] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote: All we need is a nice mechanic. For instance: I would love to be able to go to my locator agent office, track your stubborn Rhes ass, so I could sneak up on you in dark alley (some rusty station environment) and beat the pulp out of your character with my knee high boots(purchased from Nex store coincidentally). Then I could open a nearby waste disposal hatchet to trash your useless Biomass.
I support this suggestion |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1062
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 15:26:00 -
[1987] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Indeed ,but it is the fear for not being able to play this game anymore
Anyway give it some time and SC will probably have the same nice avatars Maybe, but they'll likely have more important things to do for launch and just after launch, and customizable avatars are a lot of work compared to just modeling all your characters and NPCs individually.
Ok EvE characters are kinda unique compared to other games ,but i would trade that in an instance for walking in station ,your own ship ,on planets and eventually boarding other players ships. And what to think of multiple players on 1 ship .
Even if SC gameplay is not close to EvE,s gameplay ,out of ship game play will beat EvE("this is not an +ïvE will die remark" ) R.S.I2014
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:09:00 -
[1988] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:I gave you my small version of how avatar interaction could look like. But you sound like a broken vinyl record. Show me on this doll where 2nd life furries touched you.
Right There
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21053
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 17:21:00 -
[1989] - Quote
Oh my... that's evil. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3561
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 18:02:00 -
[1990] - Quote
Maybe you guys can petition CCP to rename this thread:
"Star Citizen and the future of our prototype"
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
102
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 18:25:00 -
[1991] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Maybe you guys can petition CCP to rename this thread: "Star Citizen and the future of our prototype"
Why not Second LifeGäó and the future of our spaceships? |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1864
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 20:55:00 -
[1992] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Maybe you guys can petition CCP to rename this thread: "Star Citizen and the future of our prototype"
Although I don't personally give a **** about Star Citizen, I understand the obsession. CCP promised a complete sci-fi simulator and never delivered. And now, someone else is doing it and delivering. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3563
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 21:41:00 -
[1993] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Maybe you guys can petition CCP to rename this thread: "Star Citizen and the future of our prototype" Although I don't personally give a **** about Star Citizen, I understand the obsession. CCP promised a complete sci-fi simulator and never delivered. And now, someone else is doing trying to do it and delivering.
FYP
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1864
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 21:48:00 -
[1994] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Maybe you guys can petition CCP to rename this thread: "Star Citizen and the future of our prototype" Although I don't personally give a **** about Star Citizen, I understand the obsession. CCP promised a complete sci-fi simulator and never delivered. And now, someone else is doing trying to do it and delivering. am an troll /me r.etard face FYP "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
103
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 22:38:00 -
[1995] - Quote
Lol inb4 lock |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
436
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 23:34:00 -
[1996] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil! ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
231
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 00:02:00 -
[1997] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:The sheer volume of drivel that comes out of Rhes is frankly amazing.
All of your arguments have been covered time and time again throughout this thread. I remember now why I stopped posting before, because I got tired of repeating myself to people who will just throw the same discredited arguments up over and over again.
I haven't seen a single person discredit anything I've posted. Can you find some links for me?
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
654
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 00:14:00 -
[1998] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The sheer volume of drivel that comes out of Rhes is frankly amazing.
All of your arguments have been covered time and time again throughout this thread. I remember now why I stopped posting before, because I got tired of repeating myself to people who will just throw the same discredited arguments up over and over again. I haven't seen a single person discredit anything I've posted. Can you find some links for me?
This a good reading articular go read it. Thats why we are all mad about that fiasco back then.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died/ |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1062
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 00:41:00 -
[1999] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The sheer volume of drivel that comes out of Rhes is frankly amazing.
All of your arguments have been covered time and time again throughout this thread. I remember now why I stopped posting before, because I got tired of repeating myself to people who will just throw the same discredited arguments up over and over again. I haven't seen a single person discredit anything I've posted. Can you find some links for me? This a good reading articular go read it. Thats why we are all mad about that fiasco back then. http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died/however that will not say we hate the WIS project no we love it only do not force us with crap like what happens back then.
You guys are so stuck to Incarnagate,it is almost embarrassing No one in this thread wants something forced onto anybody The only thing we want is the OPTION to open that door R.S.I2014
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
654
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 00:44:00 -
[2000] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Johan Civire wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The sheer volume of drivel that comes out of Rhes is frankly amazing.
All of your arguments have been covered time and time again throughout this thread. I remember now why I stopped posting before, because I got tired of repeating myself to people who will just throw the same discredited arguments up over and over again. I haven't seen a single person discredit anything I've posted. Can you find some links for me? This a good reading articular go read it. Thats why we are all mad about that fiasco back then. http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died/however that will not say we hate the WIS project no we love it only do not force us with crap like what happens back then. You guys are so stuck to Incarnagate,it is almost embarrassing No one in this thread wants something forced onto anybody The only thing we want is the OPTION to open that door
he genius have you even read my post before this, that link thats why or sherlock "Rhes" is afraid for i just pointing his point out and clearly say this fiasco is over now. |
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1062
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 00:49:00 -
[2001] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Johan Civire wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The sheer volume of drivel that comes out of Rhes is frankly amazing.
All of your arguments have been covered time and time again throughout this thread. I remember now why I stopped posting before, because I got tired of repeating myself to people who will just throw the same discredited arguments up over and over again. I haven't seen a single person discredit anything I've posted. Can you find some links for me? This a good reading articular go read it. Thats why we are all mad about that fiasco back then. http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died/however that will not say we hate the WIS project no we love it only do not force us with crap like what happens back then. You guys are so stuck to Incarnagate,it is almost embarrassing No one in this thread wants something forced onto anybody The only thing we want is the OPTION to open that door he genius have you even read my post before this, that link thats why or sherlock "Rhes" is afraid for i just pointing his point out and clearly say this fiasco is over now. hey mastermind why should i read a blog from 2011 ,too long ago R.S.I2014
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
654
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 00:58:00 -
[2002] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: hey mastermind why should i read a blog from 2011 ,too long ago
Lol clearly you do dont read any post before the last one. you just post random nonsense about the lasted post you see. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1062
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 01:05:00 -
[2003] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: hey mastermind why should i read a blog from 2011 ,too long ago
Lol clearly you do dont read any post before the last one. you just post random nonsense about the lasted post you see.
You clearly did not read anything i posted on this thread and any in the other WIS threads ,did you? R.S.I2014
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
654
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 01:08:00 -
[2004] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Johan Civire wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: hey mastermind why should i read a blog from 2011 ,too long ago
Lol clearly you do dont read any post before the last one. you just post random nonsense about the lasted post you see. You clearly did not read anything i posted on this thread and any in the other WIS threads ,did you?
You post that answer on my post not visa versa if you have nothing to say useful or ashamed to say sorry mis read it then please by all means stop comment. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1062
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 01:12:00 -
[2005] - Quote
Johan Civire wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Johan Civire wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: hey mastermind why should i read a blog from 2011 ,too long ago
Lol clearly you do dont read any post before the last one. you just post random nonsense about the lasted post you see. You clearly did not read anything i posted on this thread and any in the other WIS threads ,did you? You post that answer on my post not visa versa if you have nothing to say useful or ashamed to say sorry mis read it then please by all means stop comment. You post that answer on my post not visa versa if you have nothing to say useful or ashamed to say sorry mis read it then please by all means stop comment. R.S.I2014
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
231
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 05:18:00 -
[2006] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:You guys are so stuck to Incarnagate,it is almost embarrassing No one in this thread wants something forced onto anybody The only thing we want is the OPTION to open that door
You make it sound so simple but we both know that you're not just asking for the door to be opened. You're asking for a whole bunch of nonsense content that would take away from Eve's core gameplay. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21053
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 09:41:00 -
[2007] - Quote
Either one of you isn't really helpful, bickering about "who said what"...
Whatever... yea, right, nobody here wants to force anything on anyone, but seeing how many players (even EVE players) there are on the forums for SC and Elite Dangerous right now, talking excitedly about the avatar gameplay those games will most likely feature, CCP should figure out how to make it happen in EVE quite soon... there obviously is a demand for such things. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
282
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 09:55:00 -
[2008] - Quote
All have been said, now is the time to decide and take action. New CQ prototype |
Flamespar
Woof Club
730
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 10:28:00 -
[2009] - Quote
What sort of action?
I would've thought an almost 12 month old thread largely in support of meaningful avatar gameplay would be enough. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21053
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 10:30:00 -
[2010] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:What sort of action?
I would've thought an almost 12 month old thread largely in support of meaningful avatar gameplay would be enough. Well, yea, I'm sure it will not go entirely unnoticed... but still, I think there could be done more. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1866
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 10:34:00 -
[2011] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Flamespar wrote:What sort of action?
I would've thought an almost 12 month old thread largely in support of meaningful avatar gameplay would be enough. Well, yea, I'm sure it will not go entirely unnoticed... but still, I think there could be done more.
It isn't unnoticed. I've personally pointed it out to CCP employees. They're just ignoring it. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Flamespar
Woof Club
730
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 10:54:00 -
[2012] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Flamespar wrote:What sort of action?
I would've thought an almost 12 month old thread largely in support of meaningful avatar gameplay would be enough. Well, yea, I'm sure it will not go entirely unnoticed... but still, I think there could be done more.
Tweet/email Hilmar?
Send CCP door keys in the mail? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1866
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 11:00:00 -
[2013] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Flamespar wrote:What sort of action?
I would've thought an almost 12 month old thread largely in support of meaningful avatar gameplay would be enough. Well, yea, I'm sure it will not go entirely unnoticed... but still, I think there could be done more. Tweet/email Hilmar? Send CCP door keys in the mail?
Emailed Seagull, Deddawn, and Hilmar. Got a reply from Seagull a while ago.
CCP Seagull wrote:Thanks for the email!
CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)
/Seagull
No response from Hilmar. Reddawn's response was significantly better, but that was some time ago now. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Broker Agent
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
55
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 11:07:00 -
[2014] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:You don't care what the answer is. So why should we care to answer you?
I think most people have just ignored him. Life lesson for you; Don't feed the trolls.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
730
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 11:10:00 -
[2015] - Quote
CCP should come forth and say what their plans are for avatars. Stop this endless tease.
Arduemont wrote:Flamespar wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Flamespar wrote:What sort of action?
I would've thought an almost 12 month old thread largely in support of meaningful avatar gameplay would be enough. Well, yea, I'm sure it will not go entirely unnoticed... but still, I think there could be done more. Tweet/email Hilmar? Send CCP door keys in the mail? Emailed Seagull, Deddawn, and Hilmar. Got a reply from Seagull a while ago. CCP Seagull wrote:Thanks for the email!
CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)
/Seagull No response from Hilmar. Reddawn's response was significantly better, but that was some time ago now.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21053
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 11:29:00 -
[2016] - Quote
Another game removed/disconnected from EVE? Thanks, but not thanks...
I'm starting to feel more and more excited that other companies are willing to take the "complete scifie experience" route from the beginning... under the current "plan" CCP has, it's becoming quite obvious that they are no longer able (or willing) to do that... within one game, that is. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1894
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 11:32:00 -
[2017] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:(...)Got a reply from Seagull a while ago. CCP Seagull wrote:Thanks for the email!
CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)
/Seagull (...)
So, essentially, the door will not open never and our avatars/characters will never be of any use in this game.
Way to go, CCP. Way to go. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21053
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 11:34:00 -
[2018] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Way to go, CCP. Way to go. Indeed... whoever thought that thinning "one Universe" over multiple games and platforms was a good idea, will have to answer a few question in 2-3 years... when SC and E D made all that happen within one game. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
731
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 11:43:00 -
[2019] - Quote
Well. It also seems crazy to put avatar tech into a game and then not use it.
Talk about wasted effort. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1895
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 11:46:00 -
[2020] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Another game removed/disconnected from EVE? Thanks, but not thanks...
I'm starting to feel more and more excited that other companies are willing to take the "complete scifie experience" route from the beginning... under the current "plan" CCP has, it's becoming quite obvious that they are no longer able (or willing) to do that... within one game, that is.
Frankly, CCP Seagull's mail just has cooled my interest on World of Darkness too. I hoped that WoD would open a door to have avatar gameplay in EVE, but apparently CCP's top brass have abandoned that. So why bother with CCP's products at all?
I've got a massive investment in this game, but if I have to start up from scratch in order to *use* human avatars, thanks but not, I will rather go elsewhere.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21053
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 11:47:00 -
[2021] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Well. It also seems crazy to put avatar tech into a game and then not use it.
Talk about wasted effort. ...and there is that, of course. If the plan really is to never actually use it, why not remove it right now? To keep the people playing that actually want more avatar gameplay, and only stick with EVE because they think it will come?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:I've got a massive investment in this game, but if I have to start up from scratch in order to *use* human avatars, thanks but not, I will rather go elsewhere. Exactly... I dunno how old this e-mail is, but I feel the same way after reading that... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1895
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 11:50:00 -
[2022] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Well. It also seems crazy to put avatar tech into a game and then not use it.
Talk about wasted effort.
Amateurism can only float your boat drakkar so far, apparently. These are the guys we are giving our monies to and putting our hopes on... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1868
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 12:00:00 -
[2023] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Holy ****. Those are some bad employee reviews. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1896
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 12:16:00 -
[2024] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Holy ****. Those are some bad employee reviews.
I've been checking that site for almost 3 years (each 6 months or so) and there's a trend of bad habits that surface almost with every additional review. Some are expectable (Icelanders first, friends-of-friends, booze is good) but others are worrysome as they relate to the actual work being done.
But, on topic: if they're selling the game because of the ships, they should make that clear and stop teasing new players with the CQ. It would be a terrible blow to us, but they really should be honest about avatars, if their plan is to not use them never. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
282
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 12:42:00 -
[2025] - Quote
Now there is so little tease, that somewhat abysmal (for avatar gameplay lovers) Hilmar answer "maybe next year" when talking about the door and avatar gameplay, was expected as a joke, and invited as such in general.
Rhes and the others don't need to be be afraid. New CQ prototype |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21053
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 12:49:00 -
[2026] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:But, on topic: if they're selling the game because of the ships, they should make that clear and stop teasing new players with the CQ. It would be a terrible blow to us, but they really should be honest about avatars, if their plan is to not use them never. My thoughts exactly... but I guess they don't want to risk lossing subs over that, so they leave it in... no use/no harm.
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Rhes and the others don't need to be be afraid. Yea, atleast not of us "evil roleplayers"... but they could start to be afraid for the game, if competition really ramps up like it seams to be in the next couple of years. No matter where EVE goes from here, but come next year, their status as "only real online sandbox spaceship game" will be gone for good soon.
...I've been to the SC and E D forums, and you'd be suprised how many EVE players run around there. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
731
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 12:50:00 -
[2027] - Quote
Just got this from CCP Seagul on twitter.
"This is not the focus for EVE online the game, but CCP still holds the vision. Both me and Hilmar expressed this at fanfest."
Souns like a "no, but we are too afraid to be honest about it". I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1898
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 13:11:00 -
[2028] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Just got this from CCP Seagul on twitter.
"This is not the focus for EVE online the game, but CCP still holds the vision. Both me and Hilmar expressed this at fanfest."
Souns like a "no, but we are too afraid to be honest about it".
Yay, sounds like "no avatar gameplay in EVE online the game". But then, if I can't take Ishtanchuk (THIS Ishtanchuk, 4 years, 7 months and 13 days old, 66 million skillpoints) to a walk in EVE Online, the game I've given 5 years and 900+ euros, what's in it to me?
No matter if they made EVE Fuckingawezome: Walking in New Eden, my commitment/attachment is to my EVE characters, and in case I looked for other games to use these or other characters, for f*ck's ake! Those would not be any games from a company that cheated on me!
It's CCP nonsense to the point of absurd. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Flamespar
Woof Club
731
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 13:19:00 -
[2029] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Yay, sounds like "no avatar gameplay in EVE online the game". But then, if I can't take Ishtanchuk (THIS Ishtanchuk, 4 years, 7 months and 13 days old, 66 million skillpoints) to a walk in EVE Online, the game I've given 5 years and 900+ euros, what's in it to me?No matter if they made EVE Fuckingawezome: Walking in New Eden, my commitment/attachment is to my EVE characters, and in case I looked for other games to use these or other characters, for f*ck's ake! Those would not be any games from a company that cheated on me! It's CCP nonsense to the point of absurd.
Especially since time and time again CCP have been told to be clear and unambiguous in their communications with players.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
282
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 13:33:00 -
[2030] - Quote
Quote:"This is not the focus for EVE online the game, but CCP still holds the vision. Both me and Hilmar expressed this at fanfest."
Messiah of New Eden. I am not a religious person, but i see what you did there. New CQ prototype |
|
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 14:15:00 -
[2031] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:Just got this from CCP Seagul on twitter.
"This is not the focus for EVE online the game, but CCP still holds the vision. Both me and Hilmar expressed this at fanfest."
Souns like a "no, but we are too afraid to be honest about it". Yay, sounds like "no avatar gameplay in EVE online the game". But then, if I can't take Ishtanchuk (THIS Ishtanchuk, 4 years, 7 months and 13 days old, 66 million skillpoints) to a walk in EVE Online, the game I've given 5 years and 900+ euros, what's in it to me?No matter if they made EVE Fuckingawezome: Walking in New Eden, my commitment/attachment is to my EVE characters, and in case I looked for other games to use these or other characters, for f*ck's ake! Those would not be any games from a company that cheated on me! It's CCP nonsense to the point of absurd.
Having finally passed through denial, it seems you are reaching the last stage of grief: Acceptance.
Or, you could just trash CCP some more and try to convince more players that EVE will certainly die or be killed off by a competitor if they do not produce what you want. That plan has been working really well for you thus far, just look at all of the bipartisan support you were able to muster. GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
282
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 14:44:00 -
[2032] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:Just got this from CCP Seagul on twitter.
"This is not the focus for EVE online the game, but CCP still holds the vision. Both me and Hilmar expressed this at fanfest."
Souns like a "no, but we are too afraid to be honest about it". Yay, sounds like "no avatar gameplay in EVE online the game". But then, if I can't take Ishtanchuk (THIS Ishtanchuk, 4 years, 7 months and 13 days old, 66 million skillpoints) to a walk in EVE Online, the game I've given 5 years and 900+ euros, what's in it to me?No matter if they made EVE Fuckingawezome: Walking in New Eden, my commitment/attachment is to my EVE characters, and in case I looked for other games to use these or other characters, for f*ck's ake! Those would not be any games from a company that cheated on me! It's CCP nonsense to the point of absurd. Having finally passed through denial, it seems you are reaching the last stage of grief: Acceptance. Or, you could just trash CCP some more and try to convince more players that EVE will certainly die or be killed off by a competitor if they do not produce what you want. That plan has been working really well for you thus far, just look at all of the bipartisan support you were able to muster.
CCP had enough, their reaction was dissapointing, so it's just to play the game in current form or not give a damn about it and the future of EVE, just to pass the time until the subscription ends. "Vision" stuff is overrated. New CQ prototype |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1903
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:11:00 -
[2033] - Quote
handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:Just got this from CCP Seagul on twitter.
"This is not the focus for EVE online the game, but CCP still holds the vision. Both me and Hilmar expressed this at fanfest."
Souns like a "no, but we are too afraid to be honest about it". Yay, sounds like "no avatar gameplay in EVE online the game". But then, if I can't take Ishtanchuk (THIS Ishtanchuk, 4 years, 7 months and 13 days old, 66 million skillpoints) to a walk in EVE Online, the game I've given 5 years and 900+ euros, what's in it to me?No matter if they made EVE Fuckingawezome: Walking in New Eden, my commitment/attachment is to my EVE characters, and in case I looked for other games to use these or other characters, for f*ck's ake! Those would not be any games from a company that cheated on me! It's CCP nonsense to the point of absurd. Having finally passed through denial, it seems you are reaching the last stage of grief: Acceptance. Or, you could just trash CCP some more and try to convince more players that EVE will certainly die or be killed off by a competitor if they do not produce what you want. That plan has been working really well for you thus far, just look at all of the bipartisan support you were able to muster.
At least I am not being mean to other people to serve myself. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1873
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:17:00 -
[2034] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: Especially since time and time again CCP have been told to be clear and unambiguous in their communications with players.
Apparently that is a problem even within the company.
Anonymous Employee wrote:The lack of communication and transparency can be quite frustrating. Managers tend to hide things from the staff and are more reactive than proactive. The company has asked for trust yet has done nothing but hide facts and information from the staff to create a level of distrust and anxiety never seen before. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:37:00 -
[2035] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:handbanana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Flamespar wrote:Just got this from CCP Seagul on twitter.
"This is not the focus for EVE online the game, but CCP still holds the vision. Both me and Hilmar expressed this at fanfest."
Souns like a "no, but we are too afraid to be honest about it". Yay, sounds like "no avatar gameplay in EVE online the game". But then, if I can't take Ishtanchuk (THIS Ishtanchuk, 4 years, 7 months and 13 days old, 66 million skillpoints) to a walk in EVE Online, the game I've given 5 years and 900+ euros, what's in it to me?No matter if they made EVE Fuckingawezome: Walking in New Eden, my commitment/attachment is to my EVE characters, and in case I looked for other games to use these or other characters, for f*ck's ake! Those would not be any games from a company that cheated on me! It's CCP nonsense to the point of absurd. Having finally passed through denial, it seems you are reaching the last stage of grief: Acceptance. Or, you could just trash CCP some more and try to convince more players that EVE will certainly die or be killed off by a competitor if they do not produce what you want. That plan has been working really well for you thus far, just look at all of the bipartisan support you were able to muster. At least I am not being mean to other people to feel better about myself.
I see you bounced right back to denial again. If painting me as some big meanie is what you need to believe to keep your bubble from bursting, I may have grossly underestimated the extent of your grief.
Mean old handbanana... bad puppy.
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
103
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:46:00 -
[2036] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:CCP's problem is not only whether its devs and programmers can be competetent and proactive enough to deliver development of the game's graphic and physics engine and connection to the other EVE Universe titles. The main issue and obvious disadvantage to RSI is the direction given to development and the platform and marketing choices made. ... Right, just what CCP's CEO and producers should have done. Want to work on more stuff than your team can handle, hire more people or outsource the work to other studios. Don't put the main project on hold by firing them or moving them around between secondary projects.
Anonymous Employee (Former Employee) wrote: Cons - Post-2011 layoff, hours required became unmanageable for several departments who were cut in half or worse. Icelandic management has a tendency to halt progress on all other projects to fix their mistakes with EVE by taking over whole development teams for months at a time. Tendency to 're-invent the wheel' with everything, even when there are proven, useful tools in the marketplace already. Very little follow-through on in-house tools. Little to no maintenance done, until someone needs it again, and then it becomes a 6 month to 6 year undertaking. Not a ton of support if you are struggling with the hours and workload. Work harder, not smarter. Frequent burnout of employees creates a lot of turnover.
Anonymous Employee (Former Employee) wrote: Cons - The number one problem was a lack of producers (in function, they have plenty of people with producer on the business card). In most studios you have an upper level of "idea people" the "grunts" (programmers, designers, artists) and in the middle, you have the producers, who try to ensure schedules are stuck to, and that the upper level understands what delays will come from changing their minds. They also facilitate communication between the grunts, so that projects with inter-dependencies get done. CCP is completely lacking this middle level of people. They have granted long standing employees with this position as a reward, regardless of lack of skill in managing people.
Because of this, they have wholesale embraces SCRUM as a way around the ineptitude of management. Fine for projects small enough for a SCRUM team to finish on their own, provided all are made up of driven individuals, but larger projects languish for months because of a lack of direction or enforcement across teams.
This is ignoring the recent "purge" in which many very competent and talented individuals were let go, and their peers who toed the company cheerleader line more closely were kept. The purge was also suspiciously drawn across icelander/foreigner lines, with many more icelanders staying, despite Iceland not having the industry to actually support a true surplus of talented individuals who would merit keeping over their experienced foreigner peers.
Senior Programmer (Current Employee) wrote: Cons - Internal processes can be muddled, and are sometime missing so people have to find a way to figure them out when they shouldn't have to. Internal communication can be bad at times, sometime it feels like management is out of touch with the staff, but usually it's a case of misunderstanding. Also, there is often a lack of knowledge between teams, it has happened more than once that several teams are working on almost the exact same thing. That's getting better with better planning recently. Too much automated email spam.
Director (Former Employee) wrote: Cons GÇô Weak and inexperienced senior management. Too much nepotism.
Advice to Senior Management GÇô Pay your people what they're worth, make them feel valued, and they will stay loyal.
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21057
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:48:00 -
[2037] - Quote
handbanana wrote:I see you bounced right back to denial again. If painting me as some big meanie is what you need to believe to keep your bubble from bursting, I may have grossly underestimated the extent of your grief.
Mean old handbanana... bad puppy.
Well, as a staunch defender of EVE, you aught to know a thing or two about denial I recon, no?
I'm not saying one game or the other will kill EVE... I also don't thing the game will die at all, any time soon... all I'm saying is, the game stagnates... again... and it is so by design... doesn't take a genius to see that this will result in problems sooner or later.
I, for one, know for myself, that should SC and/or Elite Dangerous turn out to be the better, more complete scifie experiences, I will put good old Shali to rest and start over somewhere else... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Taiwanistan
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 15:50:00 -
[2038] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Yay, sounds like "no avatar gameplay in EVE online the game". But then, if I can't take Ishtanchuk (THIS Ishtanchuk, 4 years, 7 months and 13 days old, 66 million skillpoints) to a walk in EVE Online, the game I've given 5 years and 900+ euros, what's in it to me?No matter if they made EVE Fuckingawezome: Walking in New Eden, my commitment/attachment is to my EVE characters, and in case I looked for other games to use these or other characters, for f*ck's ake! Those would not be any games from a company that cheated on me! It's CCP nonsense to the point of absurd.
now that's some quality tears, oh ccp come on now stop griefing lol TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1905
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 16:02:00 -
[2039] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Flamespar wrote: Especially since time and time again CCP have been told to be clear and unambiguous in their communications with players.
Apparently that is a problem even within the company. Anonymous Employee wrote:The lack of communication and transparency can be quite frustrating. Managers tend to hide things from the staff and are more reactive than proactive. The company has asked for trust yet has done nothing but hide facts and information from the staff to create a level of distrust and anxiety never seen before.
Well, CCP is a funny company. You may notice how the lack of middle rank controllers is a chronical peeve of reviewers since 2006, even although CCP implemented SCRUM since Incarnageddon (2011) and SCRUM relies heavily on middle rank controllers to prevent chaos and ensure that development goals are achieved...
So far, EVE development is a rat race, where some rats may run accidentally in the same direction and then the top brass will draw a line in that direction, label it "Goal" an begin hyping the next expansion.
Doing anything else would require middle ranks, you know, those higher paid dudes telling the sprint teams what to do (so authoritarian!) and the top guys what's going wrong (so pessimistic!) and assigning help to teams who run into trouble (so not HTFU!) and even making sure that team A is not taking down what team B is doing (so not funny!). The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 16:03:00 -
[2040] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:handbanana wrote:I see you bounced right back to denial again. If painting me as some big meanie is what you need to believe to keep your bubble from bursting, I may have grossly underestimated the extent of your grief.
Mean old handbanana... bad puppy.
Well, as a staunch defender of EVE...
[citation needed]
GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21058
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 16:13:00 -
[2041] - Quote
handbanana wrote:[citation needed] *looks back over the last couple of pages* ...no, you don't.
The again, I can never tell if your people are really defending the game or just, out of pronciple, trolling people that have other opinions then you... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
103
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 16:22:00 -
[2042] - Quote
This Anonymous Employee person's statements somehow sound more honest than the speeches coming from other CCP people.
Anonymoys Employee for president \o/ |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
282
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 16:22:00 -
[2043] - Quote
We, players, can't defend the CCP, or the game. Even when we will shoot Jita. You know they didn't do anything with the NEX store right? Only CCP is able to defend their game, by the development and communication with players. Now they didn't developed WIS, and are not going to do it, and "visions" were good in 2006, not post Incarna. Somebody need to realize it here and in CCP. We were told, no WIS, so "visions" are meaningless. New CQ prototype |
handbanana
State War Academy Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 16:40:00 -
[2044] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:handbanana wrote:[citation needed] *looks back over the last couple of pages* ...no, you don't. Then again, I can never tell if "you people" are really defending the game, or just, out of pronciple, trolling people that have other opinions then you...
Common mistake that, labeling people who do not agree with you as trolls and then using that as the justification to dismiss their opinions.
CCP can defend themselves if necessary, they don't need me for that and I have no interest in doing so. Besides, their attempts at damage control after they screw-up are often very amusing. GÇ£It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.GÇ¥ -á-á -Jack Handy
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1907
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 16:48:00 -
[2045] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:This Anonymous Employee person's statements somehow sound more honest than the speeches coming from other CCP people. Anonymous Employee for president \o/
Well, until today I hesitated to bring that stuff here, because candid reviews are a tricky tool. But I am used to browse through such reviews because of my trade (Tripadvisor is one of my tools, and you better learn to cut through bullshit there! ) so, albeit some of the reviews are dubious, what's left paints a inner view which is coherent with the outside view.
Being honest, waiting to finish WoD and then make a EVE themed avatar game based on what they learn from WoD is a sensible thing to do... but it's third to make a EVE- themed avatar game instead of a WoD one, which in turn is second to build avatar content into the core game after promising it for 5 years.
It was THEIR idea to have avatar gameplay in EVE, not ours. Certainly I didn't joined the game for avatars, but i quickly learned of them and was very excited... enough to start this character with WiS in mind, waiting to see her walk in stations Soon (TM).
Now CCP is not honoring that and they have a ingame featureless feature which is both a fantastic teaser and a horrendous lie, and anyway we still don't know what's the Hallelujah plan to keep internet spaceships interesting after 10 years. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
282
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 16:52:00 -
[2046] - Quote
Seagull answer is clear, no WIS in EVE online, all they have is vision of many games, all located in New Eden. o/ New CQ prototype |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
103
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 19:32:00 -
[2047] - Quote
I too have visions when I look at those many games Visions of Regret |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
144
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 19:33:00 -
[2048] - Quote
There's also a possibility that CCP simply denies that it has any plans for WiS for one simple reason - the cries and sheer amount of rage as a result of the like of Rhes and Co. That WiS demo cost them 20% layoffs, but if nothing is released in relation to avatar game play, they'll still retain plenty of customers, simply because of people being attached to the characters. The skill system is ideal in that regard.
Then again if they still continued working on WiS or anything related, noone should expect it coming any time Soon(TM) or any amount of Soon(TM)s for that matter
Even before reading those employee reviews everyone playing Eve for some time should know that this game developer loves to "reinvent the wheel."
They won't tell us whether they are scraping WiS development or not, because they want both opponents and proponents subbed for the most time.
As long as there's any hope left for both sides of the argument it is a win-win for CCP. |
Ariel Dawn
F9X
1128
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 19:54:00 -
[2049] - Quote
WiS/Incarna like stuff however is needed in order to keep EVE relevant and prevent it from becoming stagnant. Ship balancing for the last 2 years has been nice, but in terms of game-change mechanics that keep players interested in their product, new stuff has been very, very minimal. Refinement can only go so far.
Look at WoW, their system of "level cap and bunch of raids" has worked well for them, but it's starting to fail as people are tired of the same content dressed up in different graphics.
Plus, people on the forums are always the loudest/cry the most. If you ask the average normal EVE player, they'll tell you that they would have liked more stuff along the lines of Incarna if it was delivered properly. A single room with no player interaction was a flop; if they had introduced bars, mini-games or relevant activities along side of it then it would have been a completely different ball game. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1907
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 20:10:00 -
[2050] - Quote
Ariel Dawn wrote:WiS/Incarna like stuff however is needed in order to keep EVE relevant and prevent it from becoming stagnant. Ship balancing for the last 2 years has been nice, but in terms of game-change mechanics that keep players interested in their product, new stuff has been very, very minimal. Refinement can only go so far.
Look at WoW, their system of "level cap and bunch of raids" has worked well for them, but it's starting to fail as people are tired of the same content dressed up in different graphics.
Plus, people on the forums are always the loudest/cry the most. If you ask the average normal EVE player, they'll tell you that they would have liked more stuff along the lines of Incarna if it was delivered properly. A single room with no player interaction was a flop; if they had introduced bars, mini-games or relevant activities along side of it then it would have been a completely different ball game.
Apparently they're throwing the baby with the water. Neither gameplay nor anything avatar-ish. They save it fo a future vision, which may be sensible, but is not wise nor honest. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
103
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 20:13:00 -
[2051] - Quote
Our friend Anonymous Employee also thinks ppl at CCP have visions:
Anonymous Employee (Former Employee) wrote: GÇ£Visions of grandeur killed a great companyGÇ¥
I worked at CCP full-time
Pros GÇô Anyone who doesn't rank above director is great to work with. Food prepared and served on premises is excellent. US health benefits are good.
Cons GÇô Senior directors, VPs and members of the executive board are delusional, disconnected ego maniacs too busy patting each other on the back to see that they are sinking their ship.
Advice to Senior Management GÇô Listen to the peons who are trying so hard to clean up the messes you make.
No, I would not recommend this company to a friend GÇô I'm not optimistic about the outlook for this company
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
734
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 20:15:00 -
[2052] - Quote
Welcome to CCP. Where everything is promised, but nothing is guaranteed.
I look forward to next the fanfest where they will no doubt change their mind again and deliver a new uber(TM) vision.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
144
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 20:17:00 -
[2053] - Quote
Ariel Dawn wrote:WiS/Incarna like stuff however is needed in order to keep EVE relevant and prevent it from becoming stagnant. Ship balancing for the last 2 years has been nice, but in terms of game-change mechanics that keep players interested in their product, new stuff has been very, very minimal. Refinement can only go so far.<...> A single room with no player interaction was a flop; if they had introduced bars, mini-games or relevant activities along side of it then it would have been a completely different ball game. The way I see it, CCP cornered themselves by promising "free" expansions. Now, proper released Incarna/WiS would cost 'em quite a penny. Nobody wants to work for free, all while we certainly wouldn't mind to have it free of charge. Whatever they are willing to provide as an expansion is very different from our desires. That includes everybody here - not only WiS proponents. The game patches that include iterations or whatever recycled content are doable for them, sure.
But to get away from the "free of charge" yet true expansions they spread the content around different platforms. "Dust to dust" was released in attempt to bring in micro-transactions. But the connection to Dust in Eve looked like another minigame. Just as PI or hacking minigames.
What they could do with WiS, is release it as optional content, fully integrated with Eve, but charge for it through Plex. If it was quality content and not halfway done feature, it could actually work. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
103
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 20:18:00 -
[2054] - Quote
Hope to meet and hang out with Anonymous Employee at Fanfest or EVE on a beach sometime... maybe at EVE Vegas |
Ariel Dawn
F9X
1128
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 22:41:00 -
[2055] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Ariel Dawn wrote:WiS/Incarna like stuff however is needed in order to keep EVE relevant and prevent it from becoming stagnant. Ship balancing for the last 2 years has been nice, but in terms of game-change mechanics that keep players interested in their product, new stuff has been very, very minimal. Refinement can only go so far.<...> A single room with no player interaction was a flop; if they had introduced bars, mini-games or relevant activities along side of it then it would have been a completely different ball game. The way I see it, CCP cornered themselves by promising "free" expansions. Now, proper released Incarna/WiS would cost 'em quite a penny. Nobody wants to work for free, all while we certainly wouldn't mind to have it free of charge. Whatever they are willing to provide as an expansion is very different from our desires. That includes everybody here - not only WiS proponents. The game patches that include iterations or whatever recycled content are doable for them, sure. But to get away from the "free of charge" yet true expansions they spread the content around different platforms. "Dust to dust" was released in attempt to bring in micro-transactions. But the connection to Dust in Eve looked like another minigame. Just as PI or hacking minigames. What they could do with WiS, is release it as optional content, fully integrated with Eve, but charge for it through Plex. If it was quality content and not halfway done feature, it could actually work.
I'd be more than happy to pay for a fully fledged Incarna experience as an addon to the existing EVE universe. That way all the whiners who don't want it don't have to buy it, and it's not "wasted resources" as CCP gets compensation for it. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 00:19:00 -
[2056] - Quote
Ariel Dawn wrote: I'd be more than happy to pay for a fully fledged Incarna experience as an addon to the existing EVE universe. That way all the whiners who don't want it don't have to buy it, and it's not "wasted resources" as CCP gets compensation for it.
Yep, and even if a grumpy clique would unsub it would be a pittance compared to the hordes of people that would flock into EVE buying subs and PLEX/Aurum to pimp up their characters. |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
290
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 05:48:00 -
[2057] - Quote
Something tells me, come thursday there will still be a carrot. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
735
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 06:40:00 -
[2058] - Quote
A picture of a carrot on a t shirt probably.
Or just the middle finger. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
257
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 09:52:00 -
[2059] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:The sheer volume of drivel that comes out of Rhes is frankly amazing.
All of your arguments have been covered time and time again throughout this thread. I remember now why I stopped posting before, because I got tired of repeating myself to people who will just throw the same discredited arguments up over and over again. I haven't seen a single person discredit anything I've posted. Can you find some links for me?
I'm sure that you won't mind stepping up and providing intelligent counter points to some old posts then!
Here's a few for you to respond to, I even only went back a few pages.
There's more that I'm missing further back but that should give you something to work on
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Consider me a little skeptical of that entire site since I can pick out at least two reviews that appear to be done by the same person (use a lot of the same wording, and give similarly negative reviews). Plus this is EA's profile and I know from friends in industry that EA is a worse place to work than CCP...
Plus only .2 lower than the rating for Bioware. Which is also considered one of the better companies to work for.
Flamespar wrote:Just got this from CCP Seagul on twitter.
"This is not the focus for EVE online the game, but CCP still holds the vision. Both me and Hilmar expressed this at fanfest."
Souns like a "no, but we are too afraid to be honest about it".
Or a "yes but we're afraid there will be backlash if we talk about it too soon".
Overall I wouldn't expect any sort of concrete responses until after they make the changes to sov and caps at which point they'll probably try and take the temperature of the community on a lot of different things.
---
In before the last two pages are cleansed for rumor mongering. Seriously people you're quoting anonymous former employees posting on a review site. That's like, the worst statistical sample for not getting bitter angry former employees ever. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1877
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 13:32:00 -
[2060] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:That WiS demo cost them 20% layoffs
When referring to Incarna I think it's prudent to point out that it wasn't really the CQ that cost them in layoffs. It was expectation management that cost them their subs. If they had said "Look, we know your not going to like it but we don't have much content for you this expansion because we're integrating Carbon, but we do have this room which is the first step", then people might not have been so pissed. Instead, everyone assumed that single stupid room was what took up their developement time because CCP had spent so much time talking about how amazing it was going to be... and then it didn't work on half the playerbase's computers, they forced it on everyone and got rid of ship spinning, introduced micro-transactions that were extortionate, greed-is-good leak, etc, etc ,etc.
I can't help but hammer that point home. Incarna was about Carbon more than anything else, and expectation management, greed and not paying heed to players' wishes cost them their subs. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
259
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 13:40:00 -
[2061] - Quote
Almost to page 100
gogogogogogogogogogogoggogo "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1909
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 13:43:00 -
[2062] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:(...)
In before the last two pages are cleansed for rumor mongering. Seriously people you're quoting anonymous former employees posting on a review site. That's like, the worst statistical sample for not getting bitter angry former employees ever.
If you can poduce better insight on CCP, I'll be glad to look at it.
If you notice, most pros talk about a good place to work, challenging and friendly, with most cons talking about poor pay, badl career development and disputable management and software development practices, and both trends span over several years.
And the case with avatars in EVE is not an instance of things well done by a professional company. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
928
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 14:46:00 -
[2063] - Quote
SC is far away from alpha and the door to the head has opened, can even sit on the toilet if one is so inclined, yet our door is still hermetically sealed. Nuff said. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
105
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 15:15:00 -
[2064] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:SC is far away from alpha and the door to the head has opened, can even sit on the toilet if one is so inclined, yet our door is still hermetically sealed. Nuff said.
Nuff said.
Cade Windstalker wrote::rant:
Ranting is prohibited in the forums. Also, inb4 page 100. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
261
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 15:15:00 -
[2065] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:If you can poduce better insight on CCP, I'll be glad to look at it.
If you notice, most pros talk about a good place to work, challenging and friendly, with most cons talking about poor pay, badl career development and disputable management and software development practices, and both trends span over several years.
And the case with avatars in EVE is not an instance of things well done by a professional company.
Unfortunately nothing I can site on a forum or share details of beyond "I have friends in the games industry and..."
My point is that that site does not represent any sort of unbiased sampling of current or former CCP employees. Evidence suggests it's not difficult for one determined individual to skew reviews on the site, and the sort of person more likely to leave a review on a site like that is a person who is, to put it bluntly, on the outgoing end of their professional relationship with the company.
If they're leaving the company then they are probably not happy with some aspect of their time their and left because of it, or they were fired (which is definitely something to be unhappy with). Neither is going to produce terribly positive reviews.
J3ssica Alba wrote:SC is far away from alpha and the door to the head has opened, can even sit on the toilet if one is so inclined, yet our door is still hermetically sealed. Nuff said.
Oh yay, space-toilets the game?
Seriously though, we've yet to see any actual gameplay out of Star Citizen. Lots of shiny ideas but no gameplay. This is like declaring that "That bullet will be the one that kills you!" and pointing at a lump of unrefined copper... |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
261
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 15:19:00 -
[2066] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote::rant: Ranting is prohibited in the forums. Also, inb4 page 100.
I don't feel anything I've posted was angry or counterproductive. If you disagree you are, of course, free to report the post in question. |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
331
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 15:29:00 -
[2067] - Quote
Interesting that CCP must be the only company that has disgruntled (ex)employees... |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
966
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 15:41:00 -
[2068] - Quote
Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what Hilmar will have to say about it at Fanfest with it next year, personally, regardless of the nay-sayers. Morwen Lagann Director, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Jace Errata
Legion of Darkwind
447
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 15:45:00 -
[2069] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what Hilmar will have to say about it at Fanfest with it next year, personally, regardless of the nay-sayers. Same here. Microtransaction shenanigans aside, I'm all for WIS and what it could add to EVE. I hope CCP delivers on it sooner rather than later. Stealth OST puns and blatant lies since 2009 Jace Errata on Twitter
One day they woke me up so I could live forever It's such a shame the same will never happen to you |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
331
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 16:00:00 -
[2070] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what Hilmar will have to say about it at Fanfest with it next year, personally, regardless of the nay-sayers. And for a moment, what if nothing is said or done concerning avatar gaming?
Will another year pass and those desiring avatar gaming keep their subscription while threatening to unsub? Will there be claims that unless Eve has avatar gaming, it will be doomed? Will other games be brought into the mix as the course of action for CCP to get it together or else there will be a mass exodus? Will this thread continue onward practically repeating itself? |
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
261
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 16:18:00 -
[2071] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Interesting that CCP must be the only company that has disgruntled (ex)employees...
Oh I never said that. I provided a couple other examples of odd company ratings a few pages back, and I decided to look up a local company that's been rated one of the best places in the country to work and it has a hilariously low rating, but only four people rated it.
Overall, not a very trustworthy source. |
Jace Errata
Legion of Darkwind
448
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 16:31:00 -
[2072] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Morwen Lagann wrote:Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what Hilmar will have to say about it at Fanfest with it next year, personally, regardless of the nay-sayers. And for a moment, what if nothing is said or done concerning avatar gaming? Will another year pass and those desiring avatar gaming keep their subscription while threatening to unsub? Will there be claims that unless Eve has avatar gaming, it will be doomed? Will other games be brought into the mix as the course of action for CCP to get it together or else there will be a mass exodus? I'm sure there will be claims like that made, but personally I don't put any stock in them. Not for quite a few years, at least. Eventually, technology will get to the point where WIS is a "why haven't they done it yet?" feature, and then it might start having an effect, but that's a ways off. Until then, WIS is something lots of people want, but it won't hurt the game to not have.
However, I'm not saying it won't benefit the game either. WIS is nigh-guaranteed to bring in extra subscribers, and making existing players happy is almost never bad. It has the ability to be a near-unique selling point, and if done properly could contribute immensely to gameplay and general atmosphere.
So no, I don't think there will be a disaster because of it, but really, after Incarna WIS can only go up. They've got the foothold with CQ; the awkward bit is done. From here they've got a lot of improvements to go after, and not really any way to make it worse.
Quote:Will this thread continue onward practically repeating itself? When do threads like this not? Stealth OST puns and blatant lies since 2009 Jace Errata on Twitter
One day they woke me up so I could live forever It's such a shame the same will never happen to you |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
263
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 18:44:00 -
[2073] - Quote
I demand another year and 100 more pages of discussion! "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1065
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 19:00:00 -
[2074] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what Hilmar will have to say about it at Fanfest with it next year, personally, regardless of the nay-sayers.
Will be the same as the last one . Yelling that the audience "Who wants the door open?" Then gets a crazy look on his face ,when almost everybody say ,YES!!!!!!!! R.S.I2014
|
Isabella Montague
Daughters of Destiny inc.
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 19:03:00 -
[2075] - Quote
Jace Errata wrote:So no, I don't think there will be a disaster because of it, but really, after Incarna WIS can only go up. They've got the foothold with CQ; the awkward bit is done. From here they've got a lot of improvements to go after, and not really any way to make it worse.
It's really touching to see what they decided to put WiS on hold indefinitely for.
They'd rather devote time and money to an FPS that most EVE players will never play (because they don't own a PS3), and PS3 FPS players consider a mediocre shooter at best. Why build on something great (where all your PAYING customers are) when you can be mediocre somewhere else? |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1881
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 19:59:00 -
[2076] - Quote
Jace Errata wrote:Guttripper wrote: And for a moment, what if nothing is said or done concerning avatar gaming?
Will another year pass and those desiring avatar gaming keep their subscription while threatening to unsub? Will there be claims that unless Eve has avatar gaming, it will be doomed? Will other games be brought into the mix as the course of action for CCP to get it together or else there will be a mass exodus?
I'm sure there will be claims like that made, but personally I don't put any stock in them. Not for quite a few years, at least. Eventually, technology will get to the point where WIS is a "why haven't they done it yet?" feature, and then it might start having an effect, but that's a ways off. Until then, WIS is something lots of people want, but it won't hurt the game to not have. However, I'm not saying it won't benefit the game either. WIS is nigh-guaranteed to bring in extra subscribers, and making existing players happy is almost never bad. It has the ability to be a near-unique selling point, and if done properly could contribute immensely to gameplay and general atmosphere. So no, I don't think there will be a disaster because of it, but really, after Incarna WIS can only go up. They've got the foothold with CQ; the awkward bit is done. From here they've got a lot of improvements to go after, and not really any way to make it worse.
This guy pretty much gets it. At least from my stand point. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
720
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 22:19:00 -
[2077] - Quote
I hope CCP still develops WiS in the background but after the initial Incarna fiasco I would be surprised if we hear a single peep about it before it is done.
I must say the character parts of the official trailers seems to improve each time they are released. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
106
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 02:02:00 -
[2078] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:I hope CCP still develops WiS in the background but after the initial Incarna fiasco I would be surprised if we hear a single peep about it before it is done.
I must say the character parts of the official trailers seems to improve each time they are released.
It's possible and woulnd't surprise me to see such situation happen where they would deny vehemently all the way that any Avatar gameplay was in development or would ever be released to the game (note this is not the case) and at an expansion preview or launch date suddenly announce it as a fully developed feature ready to be deployed.
Look at some of CCP's employees and their practices like the Chief Marketing Officer CMO David Reid (ex NCSoft and Trion Worlds) who is famous for giving this interview about NCSoft's Tabula Rasa stating that "it was an AAA title and was here to stay" just before they announced its closure Anybody watching these people adress communities should stock up on big piles of trust ready to be sucked while the show goes on and sticks to set off all the traps coming from their speech. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
825
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 02:49:00 -
[2079] - Quote
100th page of the thread! We can celebrate its birthday in 16 days (Oct, 9). Quite an achievement for a thread about content which nobody want (as devs obviously think).
To compare: longest thread I see in Dust forum is 3-page "long" conversation about boycotting Dust. |
|
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
157
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 03:40:00 -
[2080] - Quote
An unattributed post has been removed.
Forum rule 31. Rumor mongering is prohibited. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
|
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Flamespar
Woof Club
737
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 04:44:00 -
[2081] - Quote
Say what you want about Dust514. But their Devs are highly communicative, they comment on multiple threads all the time.
And then there is this forum ..... I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1914
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 08:28:00 -
[2082] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:I hope CCP still develops WiS in the background but after the initial Incarna fiasco I would be surprised if we hear a single peep about it before it is done.
I must say the character parts of the official trailers seems to improve each time they are released.
Wel, they may be improving their CGI skills...
...but CGI is the opposite of ingame footage, which used to be the way CCP advertised EVE. The cognitive disonance between using human avatars in your advertisements and not have any use to human avatars in yoru game is kind of funny and only grows funnier upon time.
Looks like CCP has got PTSD about vatars. Or maybe just they fired everyone related to avatars, the few remaining have quit the company an all in all they're hoping that hired talent will rescue them from the horrible mess they put themselves in two years ago.
EVE and CCP have been unning on emergency mode since Incarna, and the stakes with the Hallelujah Plan and its herald, the winter expansion, are terribly high.
Neither CCP nor EVE nor the players can afford another bag of hot air like Odyssey. 100 one-pennies of reheated porridge don't make for a 1 pound of hot bacon.
And, personally, they better get their stuff right with marauders, because they're planting a shitstorm with the current disgrace of iteration proposal ("shitstorm" as in "it has been consistently blasted out of the water for 100+ pages of threadnaught and almost 3 weeks without any CCP feedback, so then don't come at us saying we didn't bloody warn you"). The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
260
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 10:13:00 -
[2083] - Quote
Open that door already ^^ RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21071
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 10:52:00 -
[2084] - Quote
Isabella Montague wrote:It's really touching to see what they decided to put WiS on hold indefinitely for.
They'd rather devote time and money to an FPS that most EVE players will never play (because they don't own a PS3), and PS3 FPS players consider a mediocre shooter at best. Why build on something great (where all your PAYING customers are) when you can be mediocre somewhere else?
Be-cuas - INNOVESHANNN!
...pledged to SC and ED yesterday, by the way, and it felt quite good. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1914
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 11:17:00 -
[2085] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Isabella Montague wrote:It's really touching to see what they decided to put WiS on hold indefinitely for.
They'd rather devote time and money to an FPS that most EVE players will never play (because they don't own a PS3), and PS3 FPS players consider a mediocre shooter at best. Why build on something great (where all your PAYING customers are) when you can be mediocre somewhere else? Be-cuas - INNOVESHANNN! ...pledged to SC and ED yesterday, by the way, and it felt quite good.
Heh, welcome to the bandwagon. Even although SC's avatar content is unlikely to be my piece of cake, it seeks to deliver a SF universe with both humans and their war machines, and they're alone since CCP has given up. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21071
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 11:43:00 -
[2086] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Heh, welcome to the bandwagon. Even although SC's avatar content is unlikely to be my piece of cake, it seeks to deliver a SF universe with both humans and their war machines, and they're alone since CCP has given up.
I wouldn't be too sure about the avatar system of SC yet... it maybe very basic right now, but it's only a placeholder, and with the amount of social interactivity/space they have planned, I'm pretty sure we'll see quite an array of cloths and accessories, as soon as the game gets rolling. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1914
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 11:55:00 -
[2087] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Heh, welcome to the bandwagon. Even although SC's avatar content is unlikely to be my piece of cake, it seeks to deliver a SF universe with both humans and their war machines, and they're alone since CCP has given up. I wouldn't be too sure about the avatar system of SC yet... it maybe very basic right now, but it's only a placeholder, and with the amount of social interactivity/space they have planned, I'm pretty sure we'll see quite an array of cloths and accessories, as soon as the game gets rolling.
Chris Roberts' style is of making "boys" games.
All female characters (few, anyway) in his games where closer to the Starbuck type, not the Caprica Six type. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21072
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 12:08:00 -
[2088] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Chris Roberts' style is of making "boys" games. All female characters (few, anyway) in his games where closer to the Starbuck type, not the Caprica Six type.
That maybe true, but luckily, he's not solely responsible for the artistic style of the game... and personally, I could live with a flight suit like that. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1914
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 12:42:00 -
[2089] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Chris Roberts' style is of making "boys" games. All female characters (few, anyway) in his games where closer to the Starbuck type, not the Caprica Six type. That maybe true, but luckily, he's not solely responsible for the artistic style of the game... and personally, I could live with a flight suit like that.
Err... +1 tlig...errr, flight suit.
(But then, a capsuleer's "flight suit" is even comfier...) The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21076
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 12:55:00 -
[2090] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Err... +1 tlig...errr, flight suit. (But then, a capsuleer's "flight suit" is even comfier...) True enough... but it's not very protective. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
Alice Saki
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
89102
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 12:57:00 -
[2091] - Quote
This Thread is so full of Text... I've never read it xD
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21076
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 13:15:00 -
[2092] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:This Thread is so full of Text... I've never read it xD Don't sweat it mei mei... most of it is rubbish. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1918
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 13:20:00 -
[2093] - Quote
Btw, 100 pages already. I didn't noticed that I wrote the 2,000th post... either I would had written the 2,001st too. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1067
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 16:50:00 -
[2094] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Btw, 100 pages already. I didn't noticed that I wrote the 2,000th post... either I would had written the 2,001st too.
Well after 100 pages reading barbie ,emotes and surprisingly furry remarks ,this thread can be closed. We all know that WIS is an empty promise ,a lie for marketing EvE with a little bit overkill.
R.S.I2014
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1067
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 16:53:00 -
[2095] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:I hope CCP still develops WiS in the background but after the initial Incarna fiasco I would be surprised if we hear a single peep about it before it is done.
I must say the character parts of the official trailers seems to improve each time they are released.
wishful thinking ,the hope is strong in you ,my padawan R.S.I2014
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1932
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 20:22:00 -
[2096] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Btw, 100 pages already. I didn't noticed that I wrote the 2,000th post... either I would had written the 2,001st too. Well after 100 pages reading barbie ,emotes and surprisingly furry remarks ,this thread can be closed. We all know that WIS is an empty promise ,a lie for marketing EvE with a little bit overkill.
We still can ask for further avatar customization options... and maybe allow us to invite a friend to our CQ, once they're on it. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ezekiel Delacroix
Golden Scimatar BR0WNC0ATS
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 20:38:00 -
[2097] - Quote
You know one of the reasons i joined eve? The promise of WiS. Yeah internet space ships are cool and i thought EVE was a cool concept first, but i played the trial and quit. Then they introduce captains quarters, i start up EVE again on another tiral and seeing my character all flashy looking walking about made me think 'dude i can't wait until they fully implement this, this going to be sweet.' and that thought pushed me one step further to actually get a propper account.
And expansion after expansion i get like almost 2 years of nothing to do with WiS. Bit of a bummer to say the least. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
106
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 21:31:00 -
[2098] - Quote
Don't worry they'll get something done for station gameplay, even if you'll have to wait more than a year to see it. If I were to bet I'd put my money on EVA implementation within the next year and station gameplay a bit later. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
722
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 22:21:00 -
[2099] - Quote
The original Walking in Stations blog was in November 2006, I hope CCP has the drive to make the original vision a reality before the 10-year celebration. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
286
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 22:29:00 -
[2100] - Quote
Only 10 years without WIS after the vision was announced? I'm sure it could take longer than that..
That's what I call procrastination. New CQ prototype |
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1067
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 03:10:00 -
[2101] - Quote
Ezekiel Delacroix wrote:You know one of the reasons i joined eve? The promise of WiS. Yeah internet space ships are cool and i thought EVE was a cool concept first, but i played the trial and quit. Then they introduce captains quarters, i start up EVE again on another tiral and seeing my character all flashy looking walking about made me think 'dude i can't wait until they fully implement this, this going to be sweet.' and that thought pushed me one step further to actually get a propper account. And expansion after expansion i get like almost 2 years of nothing to do with WiS. Bit of a bummer to say the least.
At least it proves that the avatar is a marketing lie to get more customers R.S.I2014
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1067
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 03:11:00 -
[2102] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Only 10 years without WIS after the vision was announced? I'm sure it could take longer than that.. That's what I call procrastination.
The guy with that vision,is he still working at CCP? R.S.I2014
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1938
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 06:44:00 -
[2103] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Only 10 years without WIS after the vision was announced? I'm sure it could take longer than that.. That's what I call procrastination. The guy with that vision,is he still working at CCP?
The ABATAR VIZION:
- Not in EVE! - Not now! - Not Soon (TM)! - Not planned! - But we haz it!
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Taiwanistan
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 06:51:00 -
[2104] - Quote
i am just glad that our beloved game is safe from some second life freakshow addon, for now TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
543
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:02:00 -
[2105] - Quote
SO this is two things that the community would really want that CCP is like "screw you"
Avatar Gameplay HD Graphics
So much for the "Ultimate sci fi simulator" "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1071
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 07:24:00 -
[2106] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:SO this is two things that the community would really want that CCP is like "screw you"
Avatar Gameplay HD Graphics
So much for the "Ultimate sci fi simulator"
CCP is bugfixing for 2 years now ,how long does it take this game to DX11 ?
EvE will have DX11 when microsoft comes with Windows 20 and DX 15 R.S.I2014
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
290
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 08:53:00 -
[2107] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:SO this is two things that the community would really want that CCP is like "screw you"
Avatar Gameplay HD Graphics
So much for the "Ultimate sci fi simulator"
"Ultimate sci fi simulator"? I don't know what do you mean. Does anyone know what does it mean? Is it something like "ultimate simulator of fantasy world? New CQ prototype |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21192
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 09:39:00 -
[2108] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:"Ultimate sci fi simulator"? I don't know what do you mean. Does anyone know what does it mean? Is it something like "ultimate simulator of fantasy world? I think we can, for now, savely assume that EVE will not become said complete (or ultimate, if you will) sci-fie simulator CCP envisioned only a few short years ago... at least not in one game/on one platform. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1940
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 13:43:00 -
[2109] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:"Ultimate sci fi simulator"? I don't know what do you mean. Does anyone know what does it mean? Is it something like "ultimate simulator of fantasy world? I think we can, for now, savely assume that EVE will not become said complete (or ultimate, if you will) sci-fie simulator CCP envisioned only a few short years ago... at least not in one game/on one platform.
It's got Starships & Spreadsheets, what else do you want? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1074
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 15:29:00 -
[2110] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:"Ultimate sci fi simulator"? I don't know what do you mean. Does anyone know what does it mean? Is it something like "ultimate simulator of fantasy world? I think we can, for now, savely assume that EVE will not become said complete (or ultimate, if you will) sci-fie simulator CCP envisioned only a few short years ago... at least not in one game/on one platform. It's got Starships & Spreadsheets, what else do you want?
Spreadsheets? EvE will never die ,EvE has a future
EvE can always be changed into a fancy Microsoft Office Tool,So you can tell your boss it is a moving background from an old game . R.S.I2014
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
106
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 16:43:00 -
[2111] - Quote
Ok that's it guyz, that does it for me i've had it with so many WiS promises and Abatar Bizionses from now on i'll wear only black in mourning and be the Man in Black.
Well, you wonder why I always dress in black, Why you never see bright colors on my back, And why does my appearance seem to have a somber tone. Well, there's a reason for the things that I have on.
I wear the black for the barbies, furries and emoters, Livin' in the hopeless, hungry side of empty stations, I wear it for the capsuleer who has long paid for his subs, But is there because he's a victim of the goons.
I wear the black for those who never read, Or listened to the words that Jesus said, About the road to happiness through love and charity, Why, you'd think He's talking straight to you and me.
Well, we're doin' mighty fine, I do suppose, In our streak of lightnin' Dust and fancy Valkyries, But just so we're reminded of the ones who are held back, Up front there ought 'a be a Man In Black. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc
546
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 18:28:00 -
[2112] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:SO this is two things that the community would really want that CCP is like "screw you"
Avatar Gameplay HD Graphics
So much for the "Ultimate sci fi simulator" "Ultimate sci fi simulator"? I don't know what do you mean. Does anyone know what does it mean? Is it something like "ultimate simulator of fantasy world? What features must it have? Simulated physics? Realism? Eve has crude "CCP physics". EVE flight and physics model is poor. Simulated galaxy far away? More like pseudo interstellar space, I mean boxes textured with really nice nebulas. We are talking about stationary objects in space, and i can see the whiter seems where walls are joining together. Wormholes tried to make things more interesting, there are even black holes, but with effects one can tell are completely random from physics point of view. Stations are, for example a nice gem in the whole game as they are more like magic boxes with infinite space inside the normal space. Dimensions compacted in dimensions? No one knows. Human interactions simulations? EVE is real. NPCs are just mission windows or pixels flying and shooting at you, ocassionally buying some overseer personal effects in stations. Many things lore wise like breathing in capsules is problematic, because in reality human lungs can not operate with liquids, we would need external blood oxygenators and CO2 removers with direct bloodstream connection. Definitely ultimate simulation of NEW EDEN it is, but make from it what you wish. CCP can't do simulation miracles for you. Even when we talk about spaceships, galaxy and human technology in space.
Hey, dont look at me. I didnt make the quote "Ultimate Sci Fi Simulator"...your boy CCP t0rfifrans always says that when he has a chance lol "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1074
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 18:57:00 -
[2113] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:SO this is two things that the community would really want that CCP is like "screw you"
Avatar Gameplay HD Graphics
So much for the "Ultimate sci fi simulator" "Ultimate sci fi simulator"? I don't know what do you mean. Does anyone know what does it mean? Is it something like "ultimate simulator of fantasy world? What features must it have? Simulated physics? Realism? Eve has crude "CCP physics". EVE flight and physics model is poor. Simulated galaxy far away? More like pseudo interstellar space, I mean boxes textured with really nice nebulas. We are talking about stationary objects in space, and i can see the whiter seems where walls are joining together. Wormholes tried to make things more interesting, there are even black holes, but with effects one can tell are completely random from physics point of view. Stations are, for example a nice gem in the whole game as they are more like magic boxes with infinite space inside the normal space. Dimensions compacted in dimensions? No one knows. Human interactions simulations? EVE is real. NPCs are just mission windows or pixels flying and shooting at you, ocassionally buying some overseer personal effects in stations. Many things lore wise like breathing in capsules is problematic, because in reality human lungs can not operate with liquids, we would need external blood oxygenators and CO2 removers with direct bloodstream connection. Definitely ultimate simulation of NEW EDEN it is, but make from it what you wish. CCP can't do simulation miracles for you. Even when we talk about spaceships, galaxy and human technology in space.
Hmmm So that is were the word Fiction in the phrase"Science Fiction" is for R.S.I2014
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
318
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 19:14:00 -
[2114] - Quote
Even fiction have to be "real" sometimes. As for Torfifrans, he isn't to blame for everything, and even he thought the "ultimate scfi simulation" could be reworked. Of course it will have not much rework for obvious reasons, they talked about them many times. New CQ prototype |
Flamespar
Woof Club
738
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 07:39:00 -
[2115] - Quote
Well only a couple of hours left until we find out if CCP plan on introducing any avatar functionality in the next expansion.
Prepare for disappointment.
I predict a re-skinning of an existing feature (industry is my guess) and a couple extra ships.
I also predict an overuse of phrases like "Innovative" "huge" and "revolutionary". I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
EmpireOfDust
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 10:14:00 -
[2116] - Quote
Will the environments be pre-built or procedurally generated?
I ask because pre-built while taking less time to get off the ground initially, get really boring really fast. I'd much rather wait a bit longer and get procedural environments for exploration and stuff, rather than walk down the same hallways in exploration sites throughout new eden. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
738
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 11:00:00 -
[2117] - Quote
I think there was some talk about them consisting of a bunch of modules (rooms) that would be put together semi randomly.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
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CCP Bayesian
939
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 11:43:00 -
[2118] - Quote
EmpireOfDust wrote:Will the environments be pre-built or procedurally generated?
I ask because pre-built while taking less time to get off the ground initially, get really boring really fast. I'd much rather wait a bit longer and get procedural environments for exploration and stuff, rather than walk down the same hallways in exploration sites throughout new eden.
The idea has always been to procedurally generate content from set pieces, think of the way a boardgame like Warhammer Quest works. It's an easily extensible way of working that also lets you get high quality art in which can be a problem with purely procedural content. Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it.
Sadly, as per the original post, we're not actively working on avatar exploration at the moment. :( EVE Software Engineer Team Kuromaku |
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Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1899
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 11:56:00 -
[2119] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:EmpireOfDust wrote:Will the environments be pre-built or procedurally generated?
I ask because pre-built while taking less time to get off the ground initially, get really boring really fast. I'd much rather wait a bit longer and get procedural environments for exploration and stuff, rather than walk down the same hallways in exploration sites throughout new eden. The idea has always been to procedurally generate content from set pieces, think of the way a boardgame like Warhammer Quest works. It's an easily extensible way of working that also lets you get high quality art in which can be a problem with purely procedural content. Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it. Sadly, as per the original post, we're not actively working on avatar exploration at the moment. :(
It's really good to hear from a Dev in this thread, but it does beg the question 'Why bother to post if there is no plan to ever implement this?'.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely appreciate your contribution and I would rather have you post here than not, but I have to ask the awkward question. Is there any plan for WiS? Because as they say (more or less), to fail to plan for it's implementation is more or less the same as planning to fail to implement it.
I do hate to put you on the spot, but there are no other questions worth asking except the awkward ones. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
673
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 12:07:00 -
[2120] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:
The idea has always been to procedurally generate content from set pieces, think of the way a boardgame like Warhammer Quest works. It's an easily extensible way of working that also lets you get high quality art in which can be a problem with purely procedural content. Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it.
Sadly, as per the original post, we're not actively working on avatar exploration at the moment. :(
It's really good to hear from a Dev in this thread, but it does beg the question 'Why bother to post if there is no plan to ever implement this?'.
Maybe because there's a significant difference between "no plan to ever implement this" and "currently no plan to implement this".
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
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Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1900
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 12:12:00 -
[2121] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Arduemont wrote: It's really good to hear from a Dev in this thread, but it does beg the question 'Why bother to post if there is no plan to ever implement this?'.
Maybe because there's a significant difference between "no plan to ever implement this" and " currently no plan to implement this".
Well, there is "currently no plan to implement", the Walking In Stations prototype that were first shown as well. That was in 2006. I've been playing for coming on 5 years now and, although I love Eve, if it's going to take longer than 7 more years it might as well never be implemented as far as I am concerned. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
725
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 12:16:00 -
[2122] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:EmpireOfDust wrote:Will the environments be pre-built or procedurally generated?
I ask because pre-built while taking less time to get off the ground initially, get really boring really fast. I'd much rather wait a bit longer and get procedural environments for exploration and stuff, rather than walk down the same hallways in exploration sites throughout new eden. The idea has always been to procedurally generate content from set pieces, think of the way a boardgame like Warhammer Quest works. It's an easily extensible way of working that also lets you get high quality art in which can be a problem with purely procedural content. Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it. Sadly, as per the original post, we're not actively working on avatar exploration at the moment. :( Procedural with very few restrictions would be fun, even have it generate stuff that is impossible to beat. Let us expect the unexpected.
I remember the early days of Apochrypha where we had no idea how things worked or what to expect. Now it is all documented to the nth degree so the excitement is gone. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
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CCP Bayesian
942
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 12:20:00 -
[2123] - Quote
Basically the ball is in the court at the executive level in CCP. As per Unifex's post on the first page:
Quote:The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars.
There are a bunch of people internally still enthusiastic about creating some things to actually do as an avatar but until such time as it's a priority for our Executive Board it's not going to happen. EVE Software Engineer Team Kuromaku |
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1201
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 12:47:00 -
[2124] - Quote
Thanks, Obama. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1573
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 12:48:00 -
[2125] - Quote
Well, it's not exactly the news I wanted to hear, but I do appreciate any info on what's going on at the moment so thanks Bayesian
And so the wait continues |
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
263
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 13:31:00 -
[2126] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Basically the ball is in the court at the executive level in CCP. As per Unifex's post on the first page: Quote:The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. There are a bunch of people internally still enthusiastic about creating some things to actually do as an avatar but until such time as it's a priority for our Executive Board it's not going to happen.
So why for god Sake did you worked ON DUST and Valkyrie can you explain that to me because i don't get it at all , people never ask you for dust and you put ressources to do it , people ask you for avatar exploration and " LET me get Out of this F... CQ" but you can't put ressources on it ... but you wasted Money , time , ressources for DUST 514 , and NO ONE ask you do that.
And How valkyrie came alive , a little Video game designer fairy do it alone in the country of the fairies to create it ? RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1949
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 13:37:00 -
[2127] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Basically the ball is in the court at the executive level in CCP. As per Unifex's post on the first page: Quote:The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. There are a bunch of people internally still enthusiastic about creating some things to actually do as an avatar but until such time as it's a priority for our Executive Board it's not going to happen.
That's what we figured form CCP Seagull's mail & tweet to Arduemont. Up there at the top brass, they deem many other things more relevant than WiS... things like FPS.
They may be right or may be wrong, but hang me if I can figure any sensible way to change their mind, other than keep insisting, flogging them when their ideas flop and cheering them if they ever take a step in the right direction.
It would be more dramatic if we could unsub en masse or make something big ingame... but it's kind of difficult when you're a solo player stuck alone in an empty room. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1949
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 13:40:00 -
[2128] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Basically the ball is in the court at the executive level in CCP. As per Unifex's post on the first page: Quote:The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. There are a bunch of people internally still enthusiastic about creating some things to actually do as an avatar but until such time as it's a priority for our Executive Board it's not going to happen. So why for god Sake did you worked ON DUST and Valkyrie can you explain that to me because i don't get it at all , people never ask you for dust and you put ressources to do it , people ask you for avatar exploration and " LET me get Out of this F... CQ" but you can't put ressources on it ... but you wasted Money , time , ressources for DUST 514 , and NO ONE ask you do that. And How valkyrie came alive , a little Video game designer fairy do it alone in the country of the fairies to create it ?
That's because we're so low in CCP's social ladder that not just the whole rest of EVE is more relevant than us, but also the rest of CCP's games are more relevant than ours! The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
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CCP Bayesian
945
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:10:00 -
[2129] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:So why for god Sake did you worked ON DUST and Valkyrie can you explain that to me because i don't get it at all , people never ask you for dust and you put ressources to do it , people ask you for avatar exploration and " LET me get Out of this F... CQ" but you can't put ressources on it ... but you wasted Money , time , ressources for DUST 514 , and NO ONE ask you do that.
And How valkyrie came alive , a little Video game designer fairy do it alone in the country of the fairies to create it ?
Again these are decisions made by the Executive Board so I can't speak on their behalf. CCP is a company and these large scale decisions are like it or not business ones. Are they decisions everyone agrees with? Of course not but ultimately we at a development level can only pitch things and hope the timing and will works out. Which is very much the case for Valkyrie as not only did it get astonishing press but it coincided well with our Newcastle development team finishing their work on Dust. EVE Software Engineer Team Kuromaku |
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Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
162
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:32:00 -
[2130] - Quote
Walking in Stations is the perfect way to bring EVE, DUST, and Valkyrie together. Getting players from different games able to interact in a unified social environment. I really wish CCP would restart this work. |
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Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
584
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:37:00 -
[2131] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Irya Boone wrote:So why for god Sake did you worked ON DUST and Valkyrie can you explain that to me because i don't get it at all , people never ask you for dust and you put ressources to do it , people ask you for avatar exploration and " LET me get Out of this F... CQ" but you can't put ressources on it ... but you wasted Money , time , ressources for DUST 514 , and NO ONE ask you do that.
And How valkyrie came alive , a little Video game designer fairy do it alone in the country of the fairies to create it ? Again these are decisions made by the Executive Board so I can't speak on their behalf. CCP is a company and these large scale decisions are like it or not business ones. Are they decisions everyone agrees with? Of course not but ultimately we at a development level can only pitch things and hope the timing and will works out. Which is very much the case for Valkyrie as not only did it get astonishing press but it coincided well with our Newcastle development team finishing their work on Dust. I think many people are just upset that you guys continually say that you'd really like to work on more WiS when--honestly--you and I both know there's not a snowball's chance in hell of future iteration being done. The reason will ALWAYS be "we need more internet spaceships," even when that just means that you're going to reskin existing ships (Navy BCs) or worse, you'll just tweak the numbers of already-existing ships, which has nothing to do with the art dept or creating new assets.
I wish you guys would just come right out and say that WiS is dead. The area beyond "the door" will never be pressurized for capsuleers to use, and we're doomed to one of four interior rooms and environments. And certainly with this being the case, stop spending money on creating things like sleeve tattoos that people won't see (I have one on right now) and adding in clothing as "value-added" for promotional items like the Collector's Edition. Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
162
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:42:00 -
[2132] - Quote
WiS has to happen. CCP needs to recognize that if games like Star Citizen can offer ten percent of what they're promising, EVE is going to take a huge hit without development of things like WiS. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
328
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:44:00 -
[2133] - Quote
Quote:I wish you guys would just come right out and say that WiS is dead.
Say it to this Executive Board. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3602
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:45:00 -
[2134] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:WiS has to happen. CCP needs to recognize that if games like Star Citizen can offer ten percent of what they're promising, EVE is going to take a huge hit without development of things like WiS.
No, it doesn't. No they don't and no it won't.
If you can actually prove your assertions, please do show your work. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
109
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:50:00 -
[2135] - Quote
Hey CCP Bayesian, I understood what you and CCP Unifex wrote and that although no development is being done on the EVA/WiS project at the moment it might be continued when the Executive Board wants to (soonGäó). What I and other folks who already posted before me still don't understand is why do they hesitate into investing in this project's development when it seems to gather so much support from the players, and be sure to attract new subscribers, while throwing resources at other EVE game projects with dubious future revenue.
If and when you guys get reunited with the suits again, please tell em that we got $$$greens$$$ for them, all they gotta do to get em is give us what we want (EVA/WiS and all EVE games on PC). Not that hard is it? Quit messing around with that reivented wheel and pumping the CCPeen. Its already big enough. Start doing what you should be doing (getting our money instead of letting us go spend it in another games). |
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
264
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:55:00 -
[2136] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Irya Boone wrote:So why for god Sake did you worked ON DUST and Valkyrie can you explain that to me because i don't get it at all , people never ask you for dust and you put ressources to do it , people ask you for avatar exploration and " LET me get Out of this F... CQ" but you can't put ressources on it ... but you wasted Money , time , ressources for DUST 514 , and NO ONE ask you do that.
And How valkyrie came alive , a little Video game designer fairy do it alone in the country of the fairies to create it ? Again these are decisions made by the Executive Board so I can't speak on their behalf. CCP is a company and these large scale decisions are like it or not business ones. Are they decisions everyone agrees with? Of course not but ultimately we at a development level can only pitch things and hope the timing and will works out. Which is very much the case for Valkyrie as not only did it get astonishing press but it coincided well with our Newcastle development team finishing their work on Dust.
Executive Board do they play the game , do they come on the forums sometimes , because if not it would make sense.
When people listen to customers they get good results sometimes ( and show them the 100 pages here)
RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
329
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:12:00 -
[2137] - Quote
Executive Board demands more than 100 pages forum thread with mostly the same people posting in it. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
674
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:15:00 -
[2138] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:WiS has to happen. CCP needs to recognize that if games like Star Citizen can offer ten percent of what they're promising, EVE is going to take a huge hit without development of things like WiS.
This sounds strangely familiar.
"When game X is launched EvE is going to die".
And so far it hasn't happened.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
291
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:22:00 -
[2139] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Irya Boone wrote:So why for god Sake did you worked ON DUST and Valkyrie can you explain that to me because i don't get it at all , people never ask you for dust and you put ressources to do it , people ask you for avatar exploration and " LET me get Out of this F... CQ" but you can't put ressources on it ... but you wasted Money , time , ressources for DUST 514 , and NO ONE ask you do that.
And How valkyrie came alive , a little Video game designer fairy do it alone in the country of the fairies to create it ? Again these are decisions made by the Executive Board so I can't speak on their behalf. CCP is a company and these large scale decisions are like it or not business ones. Are they decisions everyone agrees with? Of course not but ultimately we at a development level can only pitch things and hope the timing and will works out. Which is very much the case for Valkyrie as not only did it get astonishing press but it coincided well with our Newcastle development team finishing their work on Dust.
DIdn't WiS get astonishing press when you first announced it? Didn't it coincide with there being no other projects on the go at the time?
On the topic of the "meaningfull gameplay" excuse. Who defines what's meaningfull? I mean people will foam at the mouth if you tell them simple social interaction is gameplay, or even bars with gambling of some sort, yet in the absence of CCP adding such an isk sink or interaction, SOMER has capitalized on a demand thats CCP seems to be unwilling to admit exsists or is simply incapable of delivering. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1075
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:26:00 -
[2140] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Crasniya wrote:WiS has to happen. CCP needs to recognize that if games like Star Citizen can offer ten percent of what they're promising, EVE is going to take a huge hit without development of things like WiS. This sounds strangely familiar. "When game X is launched EvE is going to die". And so far it hasn't happened.
It will not happen now ,but it will happen .
It is one of the reasons ,that CCP makes out of EvE games R.S.I2014
|
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
932
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:30:00 -
[2141] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Basically the ball is in the court at the executive level in CCP. As per Unifex's post on the first page: Quote:The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. There are a bunch of people internally still enthusiastic about creating some things to actually do as an avatar but until such time as it's a priority for our Executive Board it's not going to happen.
Maybe those enthusiastic devs should go shoot a monument in Reyjkavik till the Board relents! This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
|
CCP Bayesian
954
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:33:00 -
[2142] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:DIdn't WiS get astonishing press when you first announced it? Didn't it coincide with there being no other projects on the go at the time?
I have no idea but ultimately either the will or the resources weren't there otherwise we'd be ambulating around rather than talking about it.
Soulpirate wrote:On the topic of the "meaningfull gameplay" excuse. Who defines what's meaningfull? I mean people will foam at the mouth if you tell them simple social interaction is gameplay, or even bars with gambling of some sort, yet in the absence of CCP adding such an isk sink or interaction, SOMER has capitalized on a demand thats CCP seems to be unwilling to admit exsists or is simply incapable of delivering.
Meaningful in this instance meant that there was some core gameplay that really required you to be an avatar rather than having stuff that occurs whilst your avatar just happens to be stood around. EVE Software Engineer Team Kuromaku |
|
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
248
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:44:00 -
[2143] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Meaningful in this instance meant that there was some core gameplay that really required you to be an avatar rather than having stuff that occurs whilst your avatar just happens to be stood around.
I remember a big part of the outrage was requiring ambulation to accomplish anything. It was going to have to be something totally new because if it affected existing game play in the slightest there was outrage. As cool as exploration would have been in the end too many would have cried because instead of hack/get bacon it would have involved game play.
This community is really good at outrage. Oh, look, new Gold Magnates...
-á |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2184
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:46:00 -
[2144] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Soulpirate wrote:On the topic of the "meaningfull gameplay" excuse. Who defines what's meaningfull? I mean people will foam at the mouth if you tell them simple social interaction is gameplay, or even bars with gambling of some sort, yet in the absence of CCP adding such an isk sink or interaction, SOMER has capitalized on a demand thats CCP seems to be unwilling to admit exsists or is simply incapable of delivering. Meaningful in this instance meant that there was some core gameplay that really required you to be an avatar rather than having stuff that occurs whilst your avatar just happens to be stood around.
But we do not even have that for spaceships. The entire game could be played via spreadsheets alone. In fact in large fleets the screen can be so covered with windows that the game is in fact played that way for all practical purposes.
If spaceship graphics are not needed for spaceship play, why are you placing that requirement on avatar play?
As an aside, when I was at CalTech (late 1970's) we had a spaceship game that consisted of 2 teams fighting in an arena. It could be played over teletypes producing text at 11 characters per second. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
932
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:50:00 -
[2145] - Quote
On a serious note, there are people who are literally throwing money at their screen just because SC is going to be a well rounded space sim .. with WiS, exploration/EVA, ship boarding. I personally have put over $600 into SC already JUST BECAUSE OF THOSE FEATURES and I know a few others Eve players who have put in more. If Eve offered a similar future we'd be doing the same here. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
248
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:56:00 -
[2146] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:On a serious note, there are people who are literally throwing money at their screen just because SC is going to be a well rounded space sim .. with WiS, exploration/EVA, ship boarding. I personally have put over $600 into SC already JUST BECAUSE OF THOSE FEATURES and I know a few others Eve players who have put in more. If Eve offered a similar future we'd be doing the same here.
I wonder how much CCP would raise if they had a Kickstarter to add those features. I'd certainly chip in.
-á |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3609
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:58:00 -
[2147] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:On a serious note, there are people who are literally throwing money at their screen just because SC is going promised to be a well rounded space sim .. with WiS, exploration/EVA, ship boarding. I personally have put over $600 into SC already JUST BECAUSE OF THOSE FEATURES and I know a few others Eve players who have put in more. If Eve offered a similar future we'd be doing the same here.
FYP.
/A fool and their money....
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1911
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:00:00 -
[2148] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:On a serious note, there are people who are literally throwing money at their screen just because SC is going promised to be a well rounded space sim .. with WiS, exploration/EVA, ship boarding. I personally have put over $600 into SC already JUST BECAUSE OF THOSE FEATURES and I know a few others Eve players who have put in more. If Eve offered a similar future we'd be doing the same here. FYP. /A fool and their money....
Then perhaps Eve better start advertising itself to fools, because fools gave SC $22m. They are a business after all. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3609
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:02:00 -
[2149] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:On a serious note, there are people who are literally throwing money at their screen just because SC is going promised to be a well rounded space sim .. with WiS, exploration/EVA, ship boarding. I personally have put over $600 into SC already JUST BECAUSE OF THOSE FEATURES and I know a few others Eve players who have put in more. If Eve offered a similar future we'd be doing the same here. FYP. /A fool and their money.... Then perhaps Eve better start advertising itself to fools...
I'm pretty convinced CCP already does that.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
CCP Bayesian
955
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:02:00 -
[2150] - Quote
Vincent Athena, I think you missed the point. You actually do things with your spaceship even if you control everything through the UI. It matters where the ship is and what it has fitted in relation to what you are doing despite not having a hard requirement to see the ship. You can indeed have avatar gameplay without avatars (e.g. text adventures) but the fact you are a person still matters to what you are doing. I'm talking about using the physicality of the avatar you are controlling. EVE Software Engineer Team Kuromaku |
|
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3613
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:09:00 -
[2151] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Vincent Athena, I think you missed the point. You actually do things with your spaceship even if you control everything through the UI. It matters where the ship is and what it has fitted in relation to what you are doing despite not having a hard requirement to see the ship. You can indeed have avatar gameplay without avatars (e.g. text adventures) but the fact you are a person still matters to what you are doing. I'm talking about using the physicality of the avatar you are controlling.
A good bunch of this lot don't understand what you mean unless you give examples that include posing, emoting, and/or playing dress up.
I mean, in SC you can sit on a space toilet.. FFS, A SPACE TOILET!!!
Surely EVE will die without this immersive and meaningful content. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
294
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:13:00 -
[2152] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:On a serious note, there are people who are literally throwing money at their screen just because SC is going to be a well rounded space sim .. with WiS, exploration/EVA, ship boarding. I personally have put over $600 into SC already JUST BECAUSE OF THOSE FEATURES and I know a few others Eve players who have put in more. If Eve offered a similar future we'd be doing the same here. We have to assume they are aware of the demand, which leads one to the conclusion that delivering the product is beyond their capability.
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
936
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:19:00 -
[2153] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Vincent Athena, I think you missed the point. You actually do things with your spaceship even if you control everything through the UI. It matters where the ship is and what it has fitted in relation to what you are doing despite not having a hard requirement to see the ship. You can indeed have avatar gameplay without avatars (e.g. text adventures) but the fact you are a person still matters to what you are doing. I'm talking about using the physicality of the avatar you are controlling. A good bunch of this lot don't understand what you mean unless you give examples that include posing, emoting, and/or playing dress up. I mean, in SC you can sit on a space toilet.. FFS, A SPACE TOILET!!! Surely EVE will die without this immersive and meaningful content.
And you're the one to talk about fools .. you are denser than uranium. Yes you can sit on a "space toilet" but see the ability to do that has been given to SC users months before even the alpha, so imagine what else will be accomplished by the release date 2 years from now. Wish we could say the same about Eve, lots of fancy fanfest graphic mockups that fail to deliver 5 years down the line. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3613
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:23:00 -
[2154] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Doc Fury wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Vincent Athena, I think you missed the point. You actually do things with your spaceship even if you control everything through the UI. It matters where the ship is and what it has fitted in relation to what you are doing despite not having a hard requirement to see the ship. You can indeed have avatar gameplay without avatars (e.g. text adventures) but the fact you are a person still matters to what you are doing. I'm talking about using the physicality of the avatar you are controlling. A good bunch of this lot don't understand what you mean unless you give examples that include posing, emoting, and/or playing dress up. I mean, in SC you can sit on a space toilet.. FFS, A SPACE TOILET!!! Surely EVE will die without this immersive and meaningful content. And you're the one to talk about fools .. you are denser than uranium. Yes you can sit on a "space toilet" but see the ability to do that has been given to SC users months before even the alpha, so imagine what else will be accomplished by the release date 2 years from now. Wish we could say the same about Eve, lots of fancy fanfest graphic mockups that fail to deliver 5 years down the line.
Wow, a pre-alpha space toilet you can sit on today. How meaningful!
I'm sure using that accomplishment alone as a measuring stick to predict what might be released in 1-2 years weighs heavily on CCP's decision making processes right now.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
936
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:25:00 -
[2155] - Quote
yep, dumb as a brick, Doc Fury has been forum blocked, have a nice day. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
897
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:27:00 -
[2156] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Basically the ball is in the court at the executive level in CCP. As per Unifex's post on the first page: Quote:The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, IGÇÖm looking at you).
So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. ItGÇÖs a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it wonGÇÖt mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars. There are a bunch of people internally still enthusiastic about creating some things to actually do as an avatar but until such time as it's a priority for our Executive Board it's not going to happen.
Hopefully it will never happen, we are not interest in second life in space. The Tears Must Flow |
Breidablik
Universalis Imperium Li3 Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:28:00 -
[2157] - Quote
This is why Dust should be merged within the EVE client. Ib4 common excuses, such as "my 15 year old hard drive wouldn't hold it!", "it's for console jockies for a reason!", "EVE is all spaceships!! wahhh" |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3616
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:30:00 -
[2158] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:yep, dumb as a brick, Doc Fury has been forum blocked, have a nice day.
Sorry that the truth is "dumb" and that you have no other recourse but to name-call and then block me simply because you have no valid argument.
Enjoy your space toilet, I hope it brings you much enjoyment for the $600 you flushed down it.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
331
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:30:00 -
[2159] - Quote
Say what you want but space toilet would have more meaning for avatar than running with guns. I am not trollling, it adds reality and makes things more plausible. :P Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
295
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:35:00 -
[2160] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:yep, dumb as a brick, Doc Fury has been forum blocked, have a nice day. Sorry that the truth is "dumb" and that you have no other recourse but to name-call and then block me simply because you have no valid argument. Enjoy your space toilet, I hope it brings you much enjoyment for the $600 you flushed down it. They only ones that seem to be flushing $$ down the toilet is CCP. |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3616
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:36:00 -
[2161] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Say what you want but space toilet would have more meaning for avatar than running with guns. I am not trollling, it adds reality and makes things more plausible. :P
O.K. If I design a single pre-alpha game that contains a space toilet you can use now INCLUDING a working toilet paper roll and flushing sounds, and I also make a bunch of promises about what else may come later, how much will you throw at my kickstarter project?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
332
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:41:00 -
[2162] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Say what you want but space toilet would have more meaning for avatar than running with guns. I am not trollling, it adds reality and makes things more plausible. :P O.K. If I design a single pre-alpha game that contains a space toilet you can use now INCLUDING a working toilet paper roll and flushing sounds, and I also make a bunch of promises about what else may come later, how much will you throw at my kickstarter project?
Nothing, because SC was first with space toilets. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
109
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:41:00 -
[2163] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:But.. but my calculator can't run avatar gameplay... only spreadsheets... :tantrum: lololol oh wait wrong post
|
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
165
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:42:00 -
[2164] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Vincent Athena, I think you missed the point. You actually do things with your spaceship even if you control everything through the UI. It matters where the ship is and what it has fitted in relation to what you are doing despite not having a hard requirement to see the ship. You can indeed have avatar gameplay without avatars (e.g. text adventures) but the fact you are a person still matters to what you are doing. I'm talking about using the physicality of the avatar you are controlling.
RP *is* content. Certain players may disregard anything that isn't about how much damage your ship can do in combat, but it adds to the immersive quality of the universe. It gives you something more dynamic to troll around than ship spinning. And the endless parade of clothes and emotes and such WILL draw interest from certain crowds. Crowds that will bring money that you can spend developing more spaceships.
New player experience *is* content. New players may not be versed in the sheer amount of spreadsheet trolling they are capable of, but exploring a communal space with similar features will teach them the game. As they need to do things quicker, they'll find shortcuts. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1912
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:45:00 -
[2165] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Sorry that the truth is "dumb" and that you have no other recourse but to name-call and then block me simply because you have no valid argument.
No offence Doc, but your arguments so far haven't exactly been the bees knees. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
297
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:46:00 -
[2166] - Quote
Oh well, guess we will have our final answer in just over 2 hours.
My bet is a bigger shinier carrot on a longer stick. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3616
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:48:00 -
[2167] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Say what you want but space toilet would have more meaning for avatar than running with guns. I am not trollling, it adds reality and makes things more plausible. :P O.K. If I design a single pre-alpha game that contains a space toilet you can use now INCLUDING a working toilet paper roll and flushing sounds, and I also make a bunch of promises about what else may come later, how much will you throw at my kickstarter project? Nothing, because SC was first with space toilets.
Curses...
How about a sink and vanity mirror? Or maybe a ceiling fan? I'm just spitballing here, and want to get in on all this free money disgruntled EVE players are throwing at other games because they contain such meaningful and useful pre-alpha features.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
112
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:50:00 -
[2168] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Vincent Athena, I think you missed the point. You actually do things with your spaceship even if you control everything through the UI. It matters where the ship is and what it has fitted in relation to what you are doing despite not having a hard requirement to see the ship. You can indeed have avatar gameplay without avatars (e.g. text adventures) but the fact you are a person still matters to what you are doing. I'm talking about using the physicality of the avatar you are controlling.
Does this mean that besides the fact the suits won't greenlight the EVA/WiS development completion you also were not able to create enough gameplay features on it? Well, if that is the aswell the case, I'm sorry to hear and I will indeed spend my money with other games that deliver what you can't.
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3616
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:53:00 -
[2169] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Sorry that the truth is "dumb" and that you have no other recourse but to name-call and then block me simply because you have no valid argument.
No offence Doc, but your arguments so far haven't exactly been the bees knees.
Players who argue and espouse that a space toilet in a pre-alpha game is some kind of big achievement that reflects on how that game will eventually turn out, isn't exactly the toad's chode either.
/or based in reality.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
171
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:54:00 -
[2170] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Oh well, guess we will have our final answer in just over 2 hours.
My bet is a bigger shinier carrot on a longer stick.
I'd argue CCP Bayesian's comments probably already indicate we won't see any WiS in this expansion. |
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1921
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:55:00 -
[2171] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Sorry that the truth is "dumb" and that you have no other recourse but to name-call and then block me simply because you have no valid argument.
No offence Doc, but your arguments so far haven't exactly been the bees knees. Players who argue and espouse that a space toilet in a pre-alpha game is some kind of big achievement that reflects on how that game will eventually turn out, isn't exactly the toad's chode either. /or based in reality.
Don't mean to be funny mate, but you brought it up like it was important. Your the idiot who started the stupidity. And now your suddenly on your high horse? Your the only one who thinks your being smart here. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
897
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:57:00 -
[2172] - Quote
Please add a option to remove the WiS crap from the EvE Online client, uses too much HD space. The Tears Must Flow |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1921
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:59:00 -
[2173] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Please add a option to remove the WiS crap from the EvE Online client, uses too much HD space.
Please add an option to remove this Vaju crap from the forums, uses valuable bandwidth. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
171
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 18:00:00 -
[2174] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Please add a option to remove the WiS crap from the EvE Online client, uses too much HD space.
If I can remove ratting from mine.
For serious? You don't have at least a spare terabyte lying around? Get over it. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
897
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 18:03:00 -
[2175] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Please add a option to remove the WiS crap from the EvE Online client, uses too much HD space. Please add an option to remove this Vaju crap from the forums, uses valuable bandwidth.
Then you would be banned from the internet, since all you do is post is pedo avatar crap. The Tears Must Flow |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
112
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 18:04:00 -
[2176] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Please add a option to remove the WiS crap from the EvE Online client, uses too much HD space.
Ever heard of those multiple-GB hard-disks launched back in '95? They exist.
Well... some of them... most owners probably trashed them more than 10 years ago |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
171
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 18:04:00 -
[2177] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Then you would be banned from the internet, since all you do is post is pedo avatar crap.
It's kinda hard to be "pedo" with avatars, given that they're all the same age and height. ;) |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3616
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 18:12:00 -
[2178] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Sorry that the truth is "dumb" and that you have no other recourse but to name-call and then block me simply because you have no valid argument.
No offence Doc, but your arguments so far haven't exactly been the bees knees. Players who argue and espouse that a space toilet in a pre-alpha game is some kind of big achievement that reflects on how that game will eventually turn out, isn't exactly the toad's chode either. /or based in reality. Don't mean to be funny mate, but you brought it up like it was important. Your the idiot who started the stupidity. And now your suddenly on your high horse? Your the only one who thinks your being smart here.
Um, O.K. whatever you are getting on about, it was lost on me. Go back a few pages where the whole "space toilet" was proclaimed as such a big deal by Ishtanchuk, who then later stated that it was somehow an indicator of how awesome SC is going to be because it was done pre-alpha.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1923
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 18:23:00 -
[2179] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Sorry that the truth is "dumb" and that you have no other recourse but to name-call and then block me simply because you have no valid argument.
No offence Doc, but your arguments so far haven't exactly been the bees knees. Players who argue and espouse that a space toilet in a pre-alpha game is some kind of big achievement that reflects on how that game will eventually turn out, isn't exactly the toad's chode either. /or based in reality. Don't mean to be funny mate, but you brought it up like it was important. Your the idiot who started the stupidity. And now your suddenly on your high horse? Your the only one who thinks your being smart here. Um, O.K. whatever you are getting on about, it was lost on me. Go back a few pages where the whole "space toilet" was proclaimed as such a big deal by Ishtanchuk, who then later stated that it was somehow an indicator of how awesome SC is going to be because it was done pre-alpha.
I decided to call your bluff and check. If they did say anything it was more than 30 pages ago, in which case you as good as brought it up anyway.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&postedby=Ishtanchuk+Fazmarai
Your starting to look pretty daft defending your argument about space toilets. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
113
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 18:33:00 -
[2180] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: Um, O.K. whatever you are getting on about, it was lost on me. Go back a few pages where the whole "space toilet" was proclaimed as such a big deal by Ishtanchuk, who then later stated that it was somehow an indicator of how awesome SC is going to be because it was done pre-alpha.
Wow!!! Your calculator can type all this without crashing? Even the word S-P-A-C-E-T-O-I-L-E-T in quotation marks? I'm impressed.
Let's try now S-E-C-O-N-D-L-I-F-E, F-U-R-R-I-E-S and E-M-O-T-E-R-S to see how it goes! |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3617
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 18:41:00 -
[2181] - Quote
You used the forum search feature.. You are old enough to know better than that.
Page 99.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3647508#post3647508
raven666wings wrote: Let's try now S-E-C-O-N-D-L-I-F-E, F-U-R-R-I-E-S and E-M-O-T-E-R-S to see how it goes!
You are doing just fine by yourself.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
114
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 18:45:00 -
[2182] - Quote
Lets have CCP run a system check on your calculator and post it in this thread, than we will continue conversation. |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1574
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 18:45:00 -
[2183] - Quote
StoooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooop
Please, everyone just stop. He (they?) is just trying to goad you into a fight. There is nothing to be won here. There is no debate to be had. Right now at this moment, it's just silly mudslinging and trolling. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1075
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 19:05:00 -
[2184] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Sorry that the truth is "dumb" and that you have no other recourse but to name-call and then block me simply because you have no valid argument.
No offence Doc, but your arguments so far haven't exactly been the bees knees. Players who argue and espouse that a space toilet in a pre-alpha game is some kind of big achievement that reflects on how that game will eventually turn out, isn't exactly the toad's chode either. /or based in reality.
EvE has a bed we can not sleep in . Eve has a pod we can not reach. EvE has a door we can not open
A game in development ,were you can use the toilet . It is not a big achievement,it says something about EvE R.S.I2014
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
115
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 19:10:00 -
[2185] - Quote
Future Visions? No thanks.
I'd rather buy Present Visions. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1077
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 19:19:00 -
[2186] - Quote
Future visions? you mean Dust??? Or Valkerie ?????
That is CCP,s future Vision . EvE future vision is anything but EvE R.S.I2014
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21293
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 19:23:00 -
[2187] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:A game in development ,were you can use the toilet . It is not a big achievement,it says something about EvE True... you can say whatever you will about a trivial "achievement" like a "working toilet"... but that toilet is inside starship... and that starship will fly through space, with up to 4 players (or NPCs) as it's crew... and it will be used to fight, trade and explore.
...call me navie or deluded, but even if it takes 24 months... or 36... that's something EVE will never have like that.
Also: SC passed 20 mil today, so next stretch was reached (FPS ground combat). "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
CCP Bayesian
955
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 19:31:00 -
[2188] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Vincent Athena, I think you missed the point. You actually do things with your spaceship even if you control everything through the UI. It matters where the ship is and what it has fitted in relation to what you are doing despite not having a hard requirement to see the ship. You can indeed have avatar gameplay without avatars (e.g. text adventures) but the fact you are a person still matters to what you are doing. I'm talking about using the physicality of the avatar you are controlling. Does this mean that besides the fact the suits won't greenlight the EVA/WiS development completion you also were not able to create enough gameplay features on it? Well, if that is aswell the case, I'm sorry to hear and I will indeed spend my money with other games that deliver what you can't.
No, I'm trying to explain what I meant by meaningful gameplay. I don't know how you ended up with the conclusion you've reached! EVE Software Engineer Team Kuromaku |
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1078
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 19:31:00 -
[2189] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:A game in development ,were you can use the toilet . It is not a big achievement,it says something about EvE True... you can say whatever you will about a trivial "achievement" like a "working toilet"... but that toilet is inside starship... and that starship will fly through space, with up to 4 players (or NPCs) as it's crew... and it will be used to fight, trade and explore. ...call me navie or deluded, but even if it takes 24 months... or 36... that's something EVE will never have like that. Also: SC passed 20 mil today, so next stretch was reached (FPS ground combat).
Indeed ,it is something trivial ,imagine the things they put in ,that really matter.
R.S.I2014
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 19:32:00 -
[2190] - Quote
Almost 20.00 UTC guyz... get yo church outfits together to attend the prayer and get ready to eat another tiny bit of Body of Christ bread! Everyone eat some while the Priest prays! EVE HallelujahGäó is coming! Amen |
|
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1078
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 19:36:00 -
[2191] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:raven666wings wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Vincent Athena, I think you missed the point. You actually do things with your spaceship even if you control everything through the UI. It matters where the ship is and what it has fitted in relation to what you are doing despite not having a hard requirement to see the ship. You can indeed have avatar gameplay without avatars (e.g. text adventures) but the fact you are a person still matters to what you are doing. I'm talking about using the physicality of the avatar you are controlling. Does this mean that besides the fact the suits won't greenlight the EVA/WiS development completion you also were not able to create enough gameplay features on it? Well, if that is aswell the case, I'm sorry to hear and I will indeed spend my money with other games that deliver what you can't. No, I'm trying to explain what I meant by meaningful gameplay. I don't know how you ended up with the conclusion you've reached!
You are talking about meaningful gameplay again? maybe ,it is time you are finally showing us your meaningful gameplay.
R.S.I2014
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 19:44:00 -
[2192] - Quote
How about this - Engage in a 4th side game called AdamGäó to make babies with EVE! Meaningful gameplay right there! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1954
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 20:18:00 -
[2193] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:raven666wings wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Vincent Athena, I think you missed the point. You actually do things with your spaceship even if you control everything through the UI. It matters where the ship is and what it has fitted in relation to what you are doing despite not having a hard requirement to see the ship. You can indeed have avatar gameplay without avatars (e.g. text adventures) but the fact you are a person still matters to what you are doing. I'm talking about using the physicality of the avatar you are controlling. Does this mean that besides the fact the suits won't greenlight the EVA/WiS development completion you also were not able to create enough gameplay features on it? Well, if that is aswell the case, I'm sorry to hear and I will indeed spend my money with other games that deliver what you can't. No, I'm trying to explain what I meant by meaningful gameplay. I don't know how you ended up with the conclusion you've reached!
Meaningful according to whom? To the people who doesn't wants avatars in EVE? Or to the people who does want them?
What is funny, is that we're so focused on EVE, that we may be missing how the Atlanta guys are developing the mother of all avatar content. WoD is 100% about avatars, and vanity items are a essential part of it right from the start -as much as actually attempting to draw in female players.
So it's not as if CCP as a company doesn't gets the importance of avatar content. It's just that they are afraid to bring that content to EVE.
We can see how many trolls here mean that avatars are too "girly" for EVE, even using keywords like "barbies" and "furries" to misrepresent reality.
Well then, take them face value: what would be wrong with EVE becoming a tad "girlier"? Some would be afraid of their manhood, maybe?
Who defines what is "meaningful"? The ones willing to pay for it, or the ones who just hate everyone not playing EVE their way?
The EVA prototype is big, requires a lot of resources, must be implemented as a single piece and all in all nobody asked for it. As far as development goes, maybe CCP will never have the resources to implement it and also develop spaceships game.
But if CCP wanted, they could implement WiS one room, 4 animations and 2 mechanics at a time. EVA "Jesus feature" is not a requisite, is not the only way, and it may not be "meaningful" at all to the people wanting WiS.
I think that EVA is an excuse: "as we can't climb the Everest, so we aren't even attempting to climb to the next floor." The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
348
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 20:30:00 -
[2194] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:(snipped...)
But if CCP wanted, ... I believe you have said it yourself of their overall future plans for avatar gaming. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
238
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 20:56:00 -
[2195] - Quote
I just watched the Rubicon announcement and I'd like to thank CCP for continuing to follow through on their promise to focus on real Eve gameplay. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21295
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 20:59:00 -
[2196] - Quote
Jup, well, there you have it... 20th expansion and nothing new regarding avatar gameplay at all.
...but hey, we get our own customs offices and deploy-able structures in highsec to fight over, great!
...best reason to quit PI. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
334
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:01:00 -
[2197] - Quote
I was somewhat surprised, overall many new things, I liked it despite lack of WIS. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
229
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:06:00 -
[2198] - Quote
Maybe, just maybe we will have our own mess halls and corporate headquarters somewhere out there and... Yeah who am I kidding.
Basically there was almost zero things announced that would interest a casual player, maybe the "auto-looting-tractor-beamer", but even that's a stretch. Rest was (again) mostly aimed at 0.0 / WH gameplay and I don't do neither. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21295
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:13:00 -
[2199] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Basically there was almost zero things announced that would interest a casual player, maybe the "auto-looting-tractor-beamer", but even that's a stretch. Rest was (again) mostly aimed at 0.0 / WH gameplay and I don't do neither. True... but they add twitchTV so new players an watch instructional videos OTHERS made, to learn the game... way to go regarding "new player support". I bet we will not even be able to use our CQ screens to watch those, though... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
177
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:14:00 -
[2200] - Quote
Another year of disappointment. Nothing that expands EVE beyond what it already is. EVE Rubicon: A minor bugfix patch. Really not sure why people let them call them "expansions". Two new structures, two new ships, and... nothing else.
No wonder EVE expansions are free. It'd be like if World of Warcraft announced an expansion that let you go up one more level, and they were adding a new sword for warriors only. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
243
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:20:00 -
[2201] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:I bet we will not even be able to use our CQ screens to watch those, though...
Nobody would want to turn CQ on just for that.
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
134
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:24:00 -
[2202] - Quote
EVE RubimehGäó. Next. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
942
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:27:00 -
[2203] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:I was somewhat surprised, overall many new things, I liked it despite lack of WIS.
It no way should be called an expansion, just an iteration of current content. Lots of litte stuff, some nice things like the SoE ships and the mobile depot .. hi sec POCOs I could care less about because I do my PI in a wh which is much better than it can ever be in empire This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21299
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:30:00 -
[2204] - Quote
Ok, yea, the SoE ships seam to be quite nice... even though they are yet another set of exploration ships, of which we already have quite few. The depot? Yea... can be useful... on the other hand, it can be destroyed by anyone when left unattended, which is stupid. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
244
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:35:00 -
[2205] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:on the other hand, it can be destroyed by anyone when left unattended, which is stupid.
It's almost like you don't *get* Eve.
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
134
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:40:00 -
[2206] - Quote
Do not fear my brothers not everything is lost. After helping the pilgrims cross the RubiconGäó by holding the tides Jesus will finally guide them to the holy HallelujahGäó heavens. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
741
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:45:00 -
[2207] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:EmpireOfDust wrote:Will the environments be pre-built or procedurally generated?
I ask because pre-built while taking less time to get off the ground initially, get really boring really fast. I'd much rather wait a bit longer and get procedural environments for exploration and stuff, rather than walk down the same hallways in exploration sites throughout new eden. The idea has always been to procedurally generate content from set pieces, think of the way a boardgame like Warhammer Quest works. It's an easily extensible way of working that also lets you get high quality art in which can be a problem with purely procedural content. Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it. Sadly, as per the original post, we're not actively working on avatar exploration at the moment. :(
Thanks for trying CCP Bayesian.
Don't mind peoples frustration. We feel lied to by CCP.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21300
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:47:00 -
[2208] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Do not fear my brothers not everything is lost. After helping the pilgrims cross the RubiconGäó by holding the tides Jesus will finally guide them to the holy HallelujahGäó heavens. That maybe, but even if CCP "reaches Rome" with the summer expansion 2014, so to speak, I, most likely will no longer be here to "bear witness to their triumphant return"... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
158
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:48:00 -
[2209] - Quote
Sexual referenced post has been removed. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
134
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 21:56:00 -
[2210] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:That maybe, but even if CCP "reaches Rome" with the summer expansion 2014, so to speak, I, most likely will no longer be here to "bear witness to their triumphant return"...
Halt Sinners! Thou shall not unsubeth and misseth the cometh Hallelujah!!! |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1957
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:13:00 -
[2211] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ok, yea, the SoE ships seam to be quite nice... even though they are yet another set of exploration ships, of which we already have quite few. The depot? Yea... can be useful... on the other hand, it can be destroyed by anyone when left unattended, which is stupid.
Exploration ships to explore what...?
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
833
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:13:00 -
[2212] - Quote
"Expansion" announce went exactly as I expected: handful of new features (mostly for low/null-sec) just to keep pretending devs still work on the game.
Meanwhile Star Citizen devs announced collectible fish for aquarium in hangars (remember Mass Effect 2 ?), windows and firing range (also lounge, armory, paint-able walls, racing hall as possible future upgrades). Now I feel like I have to give them more money. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21300
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:17:00 -
[2213] - Quote
After what I've given to CCP over the last years, I have not qualms what so ever over supporting SC or E.D. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
255
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:18:00 -
[2214] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Meanwhile Star Citizen devs announced collectible fish for aquarium
Nothing says sci-fi like tropical fish.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
742
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:29:00 -
[2215] - Quote
I think it's pretty clear now that CCP have no intention of ever implementing meaningful avatar content (sorry Rhes, I know you were looking forward to having sex in your fur suit, perhaps you should give second life a go).
The only reason they won't come out and say it is because they don't want to alienate players who want it because they want your subscription dollars.
CCP seem to barely be able to pull off a decent space based expansion lately. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21301
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:33:00 -
[2216] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:CCP seem to barely be able to pull off a decent space based expansion lately. Yup... their "expansion" seam increasingly... chaotic? Maybe I fail so see the big idea here, but player owned custom offices in high sec? Why? Who needs that?
...Rhes is kinda cute... I have no idea what he writes, since I got him blocked, but seeing how he always posts directly after me, I almost feel flattered. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
943
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:40:00 -
[2217] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Lipbite wrote:Meanwhile Star Citizen devs announced collectible fish for aquarium Nothing says sci-fi like tropical fish.
Seems you don't *get* Sci Fi, Captain Picard had a fish tank, the Enterprise had several of them actually. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
835
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:42:00 -
[2218] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Lipbite wrote:Meanwhile Star Citizen devs announced collectible fish for aquarium Nothing says sci-fi like tropical fish.
I'm not even sure what liquid will be used for the aquarium because fish will come from different planets. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21303
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:44:00 -
[2219] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Seems you don't *get* Sci Fi, Captain Picard had a fish tank, the Enterprise had several of them actually. Well, that's because EVE is no longer really about sci-fie... sure, it's about spaceships... but other then that, it's a playground for juvinile delinquents on a power trip, screwing each other over... no wonder, no excitement... just meaningless, tedious competition...
Take a look at the SC forums... there you see real sci-fie enthusiasts. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
945
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:48:00 -
[2220] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:Seems you don't *get* Sci Fi, Captain Picard had a fish tank, the Enterprise had several of them actually. Well, that's because EVE is no longer really about sci-fie... sure, it's about spaceships... but other then that, it's a playground for juvinile delinquents on a power trip, screwing each other over... no wonder, no excitement... just meaningless, tedious competition... Take a look at the SC forums... there you see real sci-fie enthusiasts.
I look at them daily, also from the latest post by Chris Roberts .. now this guy has a vision. Why, why, why can't eve have something similar .. save the damsel in distress by boarding Kruul's pleasure gardens for example. Oh wait, we get hi-sec POCO changes.
"What this means is that weGÇÖre expanding the FPS mechanic weGÇÖve already created for the ship boarding system to apply to more areas of the game. Join an ongoing battle on a contested world, launch an attack on a pirate base, come to the rescue of distant colonists and fend off Vanduul raiders GǪ the possibilities are endless." This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
257
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:53:00 -
[2221] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:...Rhes is kinda cute... I have no idea what he writes, since I got him blocked, but seeing how he always posts directly after me, I almost feel flattered.
It's nice to know you still care.
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
257
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:54:00 -
[2222] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:Seems you don't *get* Sci Fi, Captain Picard had a fish tank, the Enterprise had several of them actually. Well, that's because EVE is no longer really about sci-fie... sure, it's about spaceships... but other then that, it's a playground for juvinile delinquents on a power trip, screwing each other over... no wonder, no excitement... just meaningless, tedious competition... Take a look at the SC forums... there you see real sci-fie enthusiasts.
What is sci-fie? I might be an enthusiast and not even know it.
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1209
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:59:00 -
[2223] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Well, that's because EVE is no longer really about sci-fie... sure, it's about spaceships... but other then that, it's a playground for juvinile delinquents on a power trip, screwing each other over... no wonder, no excitement... just meaningless, tedious competition...
Ya, it's pretty ******* awesome. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
302
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 23:38:00 -
[2224] - Quote
The carrot is gone.
The WiS was a lie.
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Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1577
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 23:45:00 -
[2225] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:"Expansion" announce went exactly as I expected: handful of new features (mostly for low/null-sec) just to keep pretending devs still work on the game.
Meanwhile Star Citizen devs announced collectible fish for aquarium in hangars (remember Mass Effect 2 ?), windows and firing range (also lounge, armory, paint-able walls, racing hall as possible future upgrades). Now I feel like I have to give them more money.
I've tried to steer clear of the whole SC vs Eve, but man, the more I hear about SC, the more depressed I get when I look at Eve. I'm not going to pretend like making a game is easy in way, shape, or form, but at a certain point, I do have to kind of wonder what's going on at CCP?
Don't get me wrong, I like Eve, but I'm slowly leaning towards the "expansion = glorified patch" crowd as time goes on. I'm not expecting a huge mind-blowing expansion every time, but I'd be lying if I said I don't find these expansions lacking in one way or another. At this rate, I think I'm also skeptical if we'll ever see WiS at all. On top of that, World of Darkness is practically vaporware at this point and DUST514, while I do very much enjoy some aspects of it, is still riddled with problems. It doesn't really all add up if you ask me.
Again, I can not stress it enough: I like Eve and I like CCP or else I wouldn't even be here, but I'm just disappointed (and a little confused) is all it is. I suppose all I can really do is sit here, wait, and hope for the best, but man, you sure don't make it easy to stay optimistic. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
745
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 23:54:00 -
[2226] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote: I've tried to steer clear of the whole SC vs Eve, but man, the more I hear about SC, the more depressed I get when I look at Eve. I'm not going to pretend like making a game is easy in way, shape, or form, but at a certain point, I do have to kind of wonder what's going on at CCP?
Don't get me wrong, I like Eve, but I'm slowly leaning towards the "expansion = glorified patch" crowd as time goes on. I'm not expecting a huge mind-blowing expansion every time, but I'd be lying if I said I don't find these expansions lacking in one way or another. At this rate, I think I'm also skeptical if we'll ever see WiS at all. On top of that, World of Darkness is practically vaporware at this point and DUST514, while I do very much enjoy some aspects of it, is still riddled with problems. It doesn't really all add up if you ask me.
Again, I can not stress it enough: I like Eve and I like CCP or else I wouldn't even be here, but I'm just disappointed (and a little confused) is all it is. I suppose all I can really do is sit here, wait, and hope for the best, but man, you sure don't make it easy to stay optimistic.
Well why play EVE if SC offers the game-play that you want?
The truth is this: CCP are no longer the innovators. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
135
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 00:52:00 -
[2227] - Quote
Oh my gods, SC has fish and a firing range everyone will get bored with in a month. Pack up guys, I can already hear CCP devs walking towards the Big Red Button...
...Alright, we should totally get WiS. Customizable WiS with something fun for you to look at when you log in, perhaps acting as a well-designed and extremely cool interface reflecting your approach to the game. I mean come on, capsuleers are immortal demigods responsible for the deaths of billions. Captains like Kirk or Picard had to answer for their mistakes, they just make others die instead, waking up in a fresh clone in a distant system. The only thing hurt is their wallet and pride.
Their conflicts claim worlds and space stations, not to mention lives of the crews of destroyed ships. They're something that can warp in, torch your entire colony, slaughter everyone with nukes because that structure at the end was rumoured to have a rare battleship BPC or expensive modules. Hell, anually they blow up each other as a sport event.
So let's have a proper CQ, and extend it to the possibility of changing the hangar. With upgrades, because we pay in ISK and give no fucks. The catch? None of this features should obstruct gameplay - they should look cool, make scifi nerds squeal but not get in the way.
- Peasant package. They may not be players but they're whippable and serve as a good reminder of how many miserable, mortal lives can be extinguished with your press of a button. Come in, obviously, Minmatar variety and subdued Amarr if you feel like your apartment lacks that special feel of irony.
- Themed CQ. Ever played Fallout 3? I mean, sides from a rather terribad storyline and improperly black/white view on the universe (mods fix that, by the way) it offered a way to customize your living space. How about simple variants of Quarters/Hangar that just look cool. No function, they just make spinning your ship cooler. From faction themes (Because no place is home without a healthy dose of rust.) to generic themes tied to, once more, the way you see the game.
Spreadsheets, holographic graphs of your wallet and green numbers to make it more business-y? Check. Boxes of bullets, a gun just in case a bottle of booze and a fat stack of not exactly legit cash on the table for our more criminal-minded types? Why not.
- Exotic Dancers. Need I say more? You can afford a spaceship. You probably can also afford a hooker. In every station you dock at, being subscribed to a service that auto-books one when you request docking permission.
Hell, more - make it possible for holders to customize the station. Banners with the alliance logo. Colours. Light schemes. Ambient sound (EVE has sound?). You dock and you know who runs this place.
Of course, we'd still be juvenile delinquents, driving around at several kilometers per second throwing nuclear warheads and rounds the size of a car at each other. We'd still scam, betray and steal. Systems would still change hands in a violent way - we'd just be a tad more stylish while at it.
I mean, that's the main selling point of EVE - not a flashy hangar bay you can walk around in. The fact that it's a violent sandbox in which there's no bad guys - everyone is equally evil and your choice is based on whoever is most aligned to your cause and is least likely to shoot you in the back the second you turn around. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet? |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
837
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 01:25:00 -
[2228] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:I mean, that's the main selling point of EVE - not a flashy hangar bay you can walk around in. Only because that bay sucks in EVE and nobody in healthy mind would pay money for 4 locked jail cells without any customization options. However hangar (housing) with racing circuit, shooting range, collectible ship models-fish-paintings, manufacturing equipment, ability to invite people and (probably) shoot them (fish have to eat something!) - all of this may add a lot to sandbox and may become a selling point.
And it works in SC already: I gave them money right after hangar implementation when I've seen videos of toons walking around and inside their ships - and I didn't even expect to see aquariums, lounge, windows, racing tracks, posters, furniture, ship enhancement equipment and god knows what else they are going to implement there (and probably many items will be craft-able). |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
265
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 01:34:00 -
[2229] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Trii Seo wrote:I mean, that's the main selling point of EVE - not a flashy hangar bay you can walk around in. Only because that bay sucks in EVE and nobody in healthy mind would pay money for 4 locked jail cells without any customization options. However hangar (housing) with racing circuit, shooting range, collectible ship models-fish-paintings, manufacturing equipment, ability to invite people and (probably) shoot them (fish have to eat something!) - all of this may add a lot to sandbox and may become a selling point. And it works in SC already: I gave them money right after hangar implementation when I've seen videos of toons walking around and inside their ships - and I didn't even expect to see aquariums, lounge, windows, racing tracks, posters, furniture, ship enhancement equipment and god knows what else they are going to implement there (and probably many items will be craft-able).
So if you already have a game that you enjoy why are you still trying to ruin Eve?
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Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
65
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 01:40:00 -
[2230] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Lipbite wrote:Trii Seo wrote:I mean, that's the main selling point of EVE - not a flashy hangar bay you can walk around in. Only because that bay sucks in EVE and nobody in healthy mind would pay money for 4 locked jail cells without any customization options. However hangar (housing) with racing circuit, shooting range, collectible ship models-fish-paintings, manufacturing equipment, ability to invite people and (probably) shoot them (fish have to eat something!) - all of this may add a lot to sandbox and may become a selling point. And it works in SC already: I gave them money right after hangar implementation when I've seen videos of toons walking around and inside their ships - and I didn't even expect to see aquariums, lounge, windows, racing tracks, posters, furniture, ship enhancement equipment and god knows what else they are going to implement there (and probably many items will be craft-able). So if you already have a game that you enjoy why are you still trying to ruin Eve? If SC is worth at least half the crap we get told, i'm sure we can ruin it anyway ... |
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Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
145
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 02:46:00 -
[2231] - Quote
There is too much bitterness in this thread.
It is understandable. Sure, CCP didn't keep the promises about WiS(not only that either), and expansions seem to look weak (patches rather,) especially in comparison to SC hype and actual delivery on that "front."
But I think it's about time there's some healthy competition for Eve. Developers here got spoiled imo, they feel too cosy in this "niche." I do hope SC succeeds, so Eve gets shaken somewhat.
Eve certainly is not dying. Stagnating? Yep, it is about time for **** to get stirred up. |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
272
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 04:06:00 -
[2232] - Quote
Jebus Christ folks. You guys make me hate being pro WiS.
This expansion will be awesome. All the small gang **** im planing right now is going to be so much fun. And dont get me started on the rapid heavy launcher. More stuff like this gets released and i wont give a rats ass about avatar gameplay. "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
276
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 04:50:00 -
[2233] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Sure, CCP didn't keep the promises about WiS
Completely untrue. CCP promised to put WiS on the backburner and focus on real Eve gameplay and they have kept that promise. That's why the game has continued to grow every quarter since Incarna.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1961
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 06:04:00 -
[2234] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:Lipbite wrote:"Expansion" announce went exactly as I expected: handful of new features (mostly for low/null-sec) just to keep pretending devs still work on the game.
Meanwhile Star Citizen devs announced collectible fish for aquarium in hangars (remember Mass Effect 2 ?), windows and firing range (also lounge, armory, paint-able walls, racing hall as possible future upgrades). Now I feel like I have to give them more money. I've tried to steer clear of the whole SC vs Eve, but man, the more I hear about SC, the more depressed I get when I look at Eve. I'm not going to pretend like making a game is easy in way, shape, or form, but at a certain point, I do have to kind of wonder what's going on at CCP? Don't get me wrong, I like Eve, but I'm slowly leaning towards the "expansion = glorified patch" crowd as time goes on. I'm not expecting a huge mind-blowing expansion every time, but I'd be lying if I said I don't find these expansions lacking in one way or another. At this rate, I think I'm also skeptical if we'll ever see WiS at all. On top of that, World of Darkness is practically vaporware at this point and DUST514, while I do very much enjoy some aspects of it, is still riddled with problems. It doesn't really all add up if you ask me. Again, I can not stress it enough: I like Eve and I like CCP or else I wouldn't even be here, but I'm just disappointed (and a little confused) is all it is. I suppose all I can really do is sit here, wait, and hope for the best, but man, they sure don't make it easy to stay optimistic.
Well, i am hooked to crack. My dealer is giving me increasingly worst stuff and i know he's gonna start selling me rat poison at any time, but i keep buying it because I am a junkie.
Just... there is that new dealer who used to be a big kahoona 20 years ago and promises the finest colombian junk. It's a long term deal, will take longer than a year, but I think I could clean myself for a few months, and then wait and get hooked on the new guy's stuff.
Because I know that CCP is gonna sell me rat poison at any time.
Now seriously, Rubicon is going from "not woaahh" to "meh" and a chance of "dammit".
There's so much chalk in this stuff that I could write on a wall with it, dudes. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21315
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 06:38:00 -
[2235] - Quote
Job Valador wrote:Jebus Christ folks. You guys make me hate being pro WiS.
This expansion will be awesome. All the small gang **** im planing right now is going to be so much fun. And dont get me started on the rapid heavy launcher. More stuff like this gets released and i wont give a rats ass about avatar gameplay. Well, I'm a PVE player and industrialist, that is more interested in the lore and the game world, then in fighting with others about useless POCOs, so you might excuse me for not getting all excited to see yet another "expansion" that does absolutly nothing for my play style... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
137
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 07:30:00 -
[2236] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3663397#post3663397
Roime wrote:Rhes wrote: Incarna almost destroyed the entire game. We should be trying to forget it ever happened.
No, Incarna didn't almost destroy anything. Overreacting, hysteric herdmental basement dwellers with entitlement issues gone full ****** is what almost destroyed the game, luckily all they achieved was a broken pixel statue.
Lol +1 |
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ISD Gallifreyan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
240
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 08:14:00 -
[2237] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Please add a option to remove the WiS crap from the EvE Online client, uses too much HD space. Please add an option to remove this Vaju crap from the forums, uses valuable bandwidth.
That option already exists my friend. Click on the name below the player's portrait to the left, and select "Hide Posts" ISD Gallifreyan Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCL) Interstellar Services Department |
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Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1932
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 08:41:00 -
[2238] - Quote
ISD Gallifreyan wrote: That option already exists my friend. Click on the name below the player's portrait to the left, and select "Hide Posts"
Haha, many thanks. : P
As for the state of this thread, well... I think people are just trying to complain for the sake of complaining in the hopes a **** storm is kicked up and CCP change their development plans. I really really want WiS content. Actual content.
The people in here talking about fish tanks, painting walls, and toilets really aren't helping themselves. Yes, SC is going to have a significantly better Avatar (and probably space travel) system than Eve does, but you don't need to keep going on about it. SC and fish tanks are besides the point, the point is that we want Avatar content and CCP's senior management is too stubborn, blind and stupid to see what we want and start steering towards it.
As for people ranting about this coming expansion being ****, well it already has more content than Odyssey had. Odyssey was a pile of **** and this expansion is going to be significantly better, at least if CCP doing start ******* up from here on. That said, I do hope there will be more, and this isn't it... otherwise it will feel like just a patch. A better patch than Odyssey, but still a patch.
I'm not sure I have the energy to argue in here any more. This coming patch might make me hold onto my sub for a bit, but I've lost all hope of ever seeing any WiS content. I can't help but feel sorry for the WiS supporters within CCP. They see we want it, and want to make it for us, but the stuck up, blind, elitist, 'old guard' at the top are incompetent. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
952
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 09:13:00 -
[2239] - Quote
Arduemont wrote: The people in here talking about fish tanks, painting walls, and toilets really aren't helping themselves. Yes, SC is going to have a significantly better Avatar (and probably space travel) system than Eve does, but you don't need to keep going on about it. SC and fish tanks are besides the point, the point is that we want Avatar content and CCP's senior management is too stubborn, blind and stupid to see what we want and start steering towards it.
Hey let us dream about how awesome Eve would be if they actually did something similar. I don't care if its an aquarium with a goldfish or a shark in it or if its an aquarium at all, it's the WiS content im after, any WiS content that is better than 4 miserable rooms with nothing to do in them. And unfortunately for Eve, SC seems to be going to deliver that in spades. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1078
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 09:25:00 -
[2240] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Arduemont wrote: The people in here talking about fish tanks, painting walls, and toilets really aren't helping themselves. Yes, SC is going to have a significantly better Avatar (and probably space travel) system than Eve does, but you don't need to keep going on about it. SC and fish tanks are besides the point, the point is that we want Avatar content and CCP's senior management is too stubborn, blind and stupid to see what we want and start steering towards it.
Hey let us dream about how awesome Eve would be if they actually did something similar. I don't care if its an aquarium with a goldfish or a shark in it or if its an aquarium at all, it's the WiS content im after, any WiS content that is better than 4 miserable rooms with nothing to do in them. And unfortunately for Eve, SC seems to be going to deliver that in spades.
The funny thing is,if CCP delivered WIS as promised ,they did not have to deliver WIS content in spades at all.
R.S.I2014
|
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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1078
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 09:32:00 -
[2241] - Quote
Hey this plex is running out today ,well i have seen enough of it already.
Had a nice month on these forums here .
With the usual 2 or 3 goons complaining about WIS and surprisingly a lot of new WIS lover posters
And another attempt from Bayasian to defend the lies of CCP
As expected WIS will never come to this game,sad but true .
I see you guys later ,maybe here or in another game with the real sci-fi gameplay and looks
bye bye R.S.I2014
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21315
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 09:33:00 -
[2242] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The funny thing is,if CCP delivered WIS as promised ,they did not have to deliver WIS content in spades at all. Exactly... instead they dumped the project all together and deliver bits and pieces of other new content (deployable structures) that are equally inconsistent, and yes, useless... great plan there. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1932
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 09:39:00 -
[2243] - Quote
Arduemont wrote: As for people ranting about this coming expansion being ****, well it already has more content than Odyssey had. Odyssey was a pile of **** and this expansion is going to be significantly better, at least if CCP doing start ******* up from here on. That said, I do hope there will be more, and this isn't it... otherwise it will feel like just a patch. A better patch than Odyssey, but still a patch...
I take it back, I watched the recording of the live feed. It looks about as **** as Odyssey was. Great. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
138
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 13:22:00 -
[2244] - Quote
I prefer a bunch of useful, well-designed tools to generate content in the sandbox to a boatload of useless features. Rebalancing was good and is good effort, it made previously useless spaceships viable and fun to use. In a way, they could just continue to rebalance things and a lot of people (including me) would be cheering - but they decided to add some kickass-looking new spaceships.
That are cloaky. And have pew pew lasers.
And we're getting space yurts. How's that for awesome.
I'd say CCP, once you're done with all those big sweeping changes that make us go "wooot!" - think about two-stage iteration of WiS. Stage 1: Make your House a Home.
Give the users a way to awesomify things they look at: hangars when they're ship spinning and possibly portraits (more scifi-looking addons, perhaps? Just... not in a form of collector items or 1 bil eyepieces. Let's give people a possibility to make how they look to others unique - the character creator is impressive on its own). All that done in a way that doesn't obstruct gameplay, just makes you log in and say "Yeah that's my hangar allright." and feel awesome for having one.
THEN think about a proper WiS as a gameplay element. Full of the usual tools for us to engage in our usual trade: sweet words, money and knives. For the weak, the willing and our "friends" respectively.
Oh and add normal NPC humans. So they can kneel before us when we walk by, yeah! How's that for ego enhancement, just what you need after a lost fight!
Now that I think of it, minigames. A simulation that lets you return to the times of earth and participate in a hunt! Unfortunately, the old data was translated by a drunken brutor so instead of "hunting with a falcon" you're "hunting falcons". But hey, stress relief.
Odyssey brought us a rebalance that sparked a war between two former allies and saw heaps of content generated through that. Let's hope Rubicon brings us even more fire, death and destruction - after all, we're getting some new tools and if all you've got is a hammer - everything looks like a nail. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet? |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1585
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 14:48:00 -
[2245] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote: I've tried to steer clear of the whole SC vs Eve, but man, the more I hear about SC, the more depressed I get when I look at Eve. I'm not going to pretend like making a game is easy in way, shape, or form, but at a certain point, I do have to kind of wonder what's going on at CCP?
Well why play EVE if SC offers the game-play that you want? The truth is this: CCP are no longer the innovators.
Don't really have much of a choice at the moment . Also, even if SC came out, I wouldn't just suddenly stop liking what Eve has to offer. Would I like SC more though? Hard to say. For all I know it could be a burning pile of garbage when it comes out.
I suppose I should clarify the cause of my "depression." It's not so much the fact SC has fish or any of that other stuff, but rather it is the fact it, unlike Eve, has already created a pretty deep world outside of the spaceship on top of supposedly having pretty solid spaceship gameplay as well. Don't get me wrong, Eve spacehipness is kinda freaking awesome. I think we can all agree. That's why we're all here in the first place, right? However, while I don't know if I would use the word "promised," I think it's fair to say if we were to go back in time, CCP could certainly be found guilty of leading one to believe there would be more than just spaceships in the present.
And while I know plans have changed and there's other work to be done and blah blah blah, I can't be the only one who finds it just a little bit strange how a pretty solid company of 10 great years can't (or won't?) figure out how to also make progress on something they started talking about years ago.
I suppose I should also add I don't think SC is going to "damage" Eve in any meaningful capacity whatsoever, if at all, but yeah, it would certainly seem like CCP are no longer the innovators. Again, SC could come out and be absolutely terrible and/or no one would still be playing it within a month, but personally, I wouldn't bet against them based on what I've seen so far/ |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
275
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 15:42:00 -
[2246] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Karak Terrel wrote:Deviana Sevidon wrote:I regret having re-subscribed and this is my last account to go. Goodbye May I ask for your stuff if you leave and no longer use it? I will put it to good use <3 He'll tell you no, because it's a hollow threat that's been used since 2003; and because of the fact he'll resubscribe once a few expancsions come through and he can actually then see what CCP is doing (that he could not perceive in advance) I want to see other things too: like WiS - which is LONG over due... but if you can't be patient then you shouldn't be playing EVE in the first place imo.
QFT from the Rubicon discussion thread. HTFU or Biomass. If we get WiS, we get it, but till then im going to go "BANZAI!" in my new SOE cruiser.
And to Rhes, i dont like your methods of furries and barbies but im on your side now of spaceships over avatars "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1934
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 15:47:00 -
[2247] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote: And while I know plans have changed and there's other work to be done and blah blah blah, I can't be the only one who finds it just a little bit strange how a pretty solid company of 10 great years can't (or won't?) figure out how to also make progress on something they started talking about years ago.
I think it's fair to say they wont, rather than can't. I think mostly because they are busy making stuff no one asked for, like Dust and Valkyrie. They are quite capable of making Eve much better very quickly, but they wont because they have committed to two unasked for games concepts.
Just imagine for a moment what we would have now if that development time was spent on Eve instead of Dust fail. It really shows in the last two expansions, and probably the next one. We're getting half the amount of content that we used to. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
140
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 15:53:00 -
[2248] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Hey this plex is running out today ,well i have seen enough of it already.
Had a nice month on these forums here .
With the usual 2 or 3 goons complaining about WIS and surprisingly a lot of new WIS lover posters
And another attempt from Bayasian to defend the lies of CCP
As expected WIS will never come to this game,sad but true .
I see you guys later ,maybe here or in another game with the real sci-fi gameplay and looks
bye bye
I hear you man, I personally am just keeping this account running cause I got a lot of isk to trade for PLEXes but have also unsubbed almost 2 years ago when they rolled back on the Incarna plan. No way I would be giving out my money for this recycled garbage. Don't sweat it we'll see each other in other Carnivals soon.
Btw, did you say Sad But True??? |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
1080
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 15:54:00 -
[2249] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:Flamespar wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote: I've tried to steer clear of the whole SC vs Eve, but man, the more I hear about SC, the more depressed I get when I look at Eve. I'm not going to pretend like making a game is easy in way, shape, or form, but at a certain point, I do have to kind of wonder what's going on at CCP?
Well why play EVE if SC offers the game-play that you want? The truth is this: CCP are no longer the innovators. Don't really have much of a choice at the moment . Also, even if SC came out, I wouldn't just suddenly stop liking what Eve has to offer. Would I like SC more though? Hard to say. For all I know it could be a burning pile of garbage when it comes out. I suppose I should clarify the cause of my "depression." It's not so much the fact SC has fish or any of that other stuff, but rather it is the fact it, unlike Eve, has already created a pretty deep world outside of the spaceship on top of supposedly having pretty solid spaceship gameplay as well. Don't get me wrong, Eve spacehipness is kinda freaking awesome. I think we can all agree. That's why we're all here in the first place, right? However, while I don't know if I would use the word "promised," I think it's fair to say if we were to go back in time, CCP could certainly be found guilty of leading one to believe there would be more than just spaceships in the present. And while I know plans have changed and there's other work to be done and blah blah blah, I can't be the only one who finds it just a little bit strange how a pretty solid company of 10 great years can't (or won't?) figure out how to also make progress on something they started talking about years ago. I suppose I should also add I don't think SC is going to "damage" Eve in any meaningful capacity whatsoever, if at all, but yeah, it would certainly seem like CCP are no longer the innovators. Again, SC could come out and be absolutely terrible and/or no one would still be playing it within a month, but personally, I wouldn't bet against them based on what I've seen so far/
everybody in this thread are here because they like EvE . I mean look at me , i stopped playing EvE a few months ago ,but still follow this game. But CCP had a vision for a reason and for that same reason other companies are trying to put that same vision in their game. CCP is just a bit to late. Will it kill EvE ? not for the first 4 years
R.S.I2014
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
290
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:21:00 -
[2250] - Quote
Job Valador wrote:And to Rhes, i dont like your methods of furries and barbies but im on your side now of spaceships over avatars
And that's why I keep posting despite the organized resistance from furry and RP cartels.
|
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
290
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:22:00 -
[2251] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:everybody in this thread are here because they like EvE .
People demanding that CCP waste time and resources on fish tanks and toilets don't like Eve. They want it to fail.
|
kosswomen Mckay
Fight Club Outfit
24
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:26:00 -
[2252] - Quote
I have given up on CCP especially since seeing star citizen and testing the hanger module.
Eve it's current state is like DOS compared Star Citizen being Windows 3.1. It has the same functionality but no graphical output. You can not fly your ship, aim or anything and when the developers tried to move the game toward the original vision then a vocal minority kicked up a fuss so they scrapped it.
To keep people interested in an MMO it has to change and develop. These patches that CCP roll out every 6 months are hardly representative of the head count of staff they have working internationally. I wonder what everyone is actually doing.
Eve needs this prototype, Wisley and Eve VR yesterday.
Like DOS Eve might be around for a long time but I know how i would prefer to interact with my PC and it certainly is not DOS.
Stop listening to **** heads CCP. Be strong and keep to the original vision that included getting out of your ship. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
291
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 16:30:00 -
[2253] - Quote
kosswomen Mckay wrote:Stop listening to **** heads CCP. Be strong and keep to the original vision that included getting out of your ship.
Maybe you don't know this but you can already get out of your ship.
|
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
220
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:03:00 -
[2254] - Quote
The fact that my post, stating that we should have seen WiS or DUST integration work in this expansion, is now the most liked post in the first page of the expansion discussion thread should speak to some evidence that this is not a minority belief. |
Schmata Bastanold
The brothers inc WHYS0 Expendable
983
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:07:00 -
[2255] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:The fact that my post, stating that we should have seen WiS or DUST integration work in this expansion, is now the most liked post in the first page of the expansion discussion thread should speak to some evidence that this is not a minority belief.
More than 5000 views of that thread and only 29 people liked your post. Yep, majority has spoken. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3650
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 17:37:00 -
[2256] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Crasniya wrote:The fact that my post, stating that we should have seen WiS or DUST integration work in this expansion, is now the most liked post in the first page of the expansion discussion thread should speak to some evidence that this is not a minority belief. More than 5000 views of that thread and only 29 people liked your post. Yep, majority has spoken.
She was using RP math.
It's the same math that deludes a few into believing space toilets, space pants, and minigames are going to bring in new subscriptions like crazy, and the lack of such "content" means certain doom for EVE.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
140
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:11:00 -
[2257] - Quote
Hey, never never ever diss the power of space-pants. Especially if they come with a free codpiece shaped like a Damnation. In fact, they should introduce said space-pants and make it possible to have a portrait involving solely your trunk. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet? |
Taiwanistan
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:13:00 -
[2258] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Crasniya wrote:The fact that my post, stating that we should have seen WiS or DUST integration work in this expansion, is now the most liked post in the first page of the expansion discussion thread should speak to some evidence that this is not a minority belief. More than 5000 views of that thread and only 29 people liked your post. Yep, majority has spoken. She was using RP math. It's the same math that deludes a few into believing space toilets, space pants, and minigames are going to bring in new subscriptions like crazy, and the lack of such "content" means certain doom for EVE. and a bunch of dudes emoting each other in jitgrimmar fool bar, my, what lovely pants you have on there tsk tsk TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3654
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:16:00 -
[2259] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Hey, never never ever diss the power of space-pants. Especially if they come with a free codpiece shaped like a Damnation. In fact, they should introduce said space-pants and make it possible to have a portrait involving solely your trunk.
WTB - Thorax codpiece.
Or would that qualify as something other than a codpiece?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1935
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 18:40:00 -
[2260] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Trii Seo wrote:Hey, never never ever diss the power of space-pants. Especially if they come with a free codpiece shaped like a Damnation. In fact, they should introduce said space-pants and make it possible to have a portrait involving solely your trunk. WTB - Thorax codpiece. Or would that qualify as something other than a codpiece?
I think if you had a codpiece shaped like a Thorax, it might qualify as a strap-on. Just sayin'.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:22:00 -
[2261] - Quote
Dont hate my SwAg brahs... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
298
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:56:00 -
[2262] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:The fact that my post, stating that we should have seen WiS or DUST integration work in this expansion, is now the most liked post in the first page of the expansion discussion thread should speak to some evidence that this is not a minority belief.
Thankfully game development isn't done on the basis of forum likes. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:15:00 -
[2263] - Quote
Fear not calculator users and spreadsheet lovers! Today I have something for you too!
You like that spreadsheet? How about the numbers? Can you calculate them well?
Funds Raised $20,143,314
Star Citizens 261,929
This is outrageous! The game has not even launched and RSI already got half the playerbase(read alt accounts) of EVE and more money than CCP!
I'll be damned |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
841
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:28:00 -
[2264] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Job Valador wrote:And to Rhes, i dont like your methods of furries and barbies but im on your side now of spaceships over avatars And that's why I keep posting despite the organized resistance from furry and RP cartels.
I thought you are posting to turn this thread into ad hominem garbage instead of actual conversation about WiS because CCP and Goonswarm collaborate to keep status quo, pacify public and persuade people it's normal for the last non-dying subscription-based game not to have meaningful gameplay expansions during 3 years (since Incursion) while shareholders feast on the money instead of investing them back into the game. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
298
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:36:00 -
[2265] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Rhes wrote:Job Valador wrote:And to Rhes, i dont like your methods of furries and barbies but im on your side now of spaceships over avatars And that's why I keep posting despite the organized resistance from furry and RP cartels. I thought you are posting to turn this thread into ad hominem garbage instead of actual conversation about WiS because CCP and Goonswarm collaborate to keep status quo, pacify public and persuade people it's normal for the last non-dying subscription-based game not to have meaningful gameplay expansions during 3 years (since Incursion) while shareholders feast on the money instead of investing them back into the game.
You're right. I get PLEX to post in this thread.
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:42:00 -
[2266] - Quote
Rhes wrote: You're right. I get PLEX to post in this thread.
Dont hate my SwAg brah... It's bad fo yo health |
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1596
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:23:00 -
[2267] - Quote
In then end it is all about resources. In theory if there was enough people developing the game all the major player groups could get what they want. However this obviously would cost more than any company could afford and probably turn the game into something no-one really recognizes as their own anymore.
So... company needs to prioritize what they want to do, with how much resources and what is worth doing.
It seems that CCP has taken the safe path and keeps redirecting some attention to sectors from where the money is currently coming. Those people seem to keep paying and game keeps going. This approach doesn't eat much resources, doesn't need much investments and has very small risks. Positive thing is that as long they keep doing this - Eve won't die :) Downside is that subscription amounts won't suddenly at least radically grow.
I can imagine reasons why CCP is doing what they are doing, but that doesn't really mean that I would accept it. In the end this isn't really black and white like "would you like us to fix the old stuff and be all about spaceships" OR "something else". This is something we players often seem to discuss about and IMO is totally wrong thing to argue about. I don't know if this is even something CCP want's us to bang our heads on to ignore the real issue behind the point.
In other words there is no "OR" between these current and new customers. In any successful company it is clear that you have to keep your old customers happy. You can not redirect all your resources just to attract new customers or the journey will end very fast. If you want new customers with some new concept you have to invest and assign more resources to the project while still keeping the old resources doing what they were doing.
As long CCP is not willing to invest greater part of the profits back to Eve and assign more developers to add new content which may or may not draw new subscribers from new target group - things really won't change.
I can only hope that someday some of the other CCP projects which have been eating from Eve start to make enough profits for them to give back to Eve and that CCP actually redirects those resources back to us as well. The flow has been other way around for too long already.
Obviously this is just customer feedback about "what I feel" without any statistical facts to back my beliefs up. Feel free to correct with real info if you know better. Would love to be wrong with this one.
Get |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
662
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 23:26:00 -
[2268] - Quote
kosswomen Mckay wrote:I have given up on CCP especially since seeing star citizen and testing the hanger module.
Eve it's current state is like DOS compared Star Citizen being Windows 3.1. It has the same functionality but no graphical output. You can not fly your ship, aim or anything and when the developers tried to move the game toward the original vision then a vocal minority kicked up a fuss so they scrapped it.
To keep people interested in an MMO it has to change and develop. These patches that CCP roll out every 6 months are hardly representative of the head count of staff they have working internationally. I wonder what everyone is actually doing.
Eve needs this prototype, Wisley and Eve VR yesterday.
Like DOS Eve might be around for a long time but I know how i would prefer to interact with my PC and it certainly is not DOS.
Stop listening to **** heads CCP. Be strong and keep to the original vision that included getting out of your ship.
+1 Eve needs this. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
301
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 00:00:00 -
[2269] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:In then end it is all about resources. In theory if there was enough people developing the game all the major player groups could get what they want. However this obviously would cost more than any company could afford and probably turn the game into something no-one really recognizes as their own anymore.
So... company needs to prioritize what they want to do, with how much resources and what is worth doing.
It seems that CCP has taken the safe path and keeps redirecting some attention to sectors from where the money is currently coming. Those people seem to keep paying and game keeps going. This approach doesn't eat much resources, doesn't need much investments and has very small risks. Positive thing is that as long they keep doing this - Eve won't die :) Downside is that subscription amounts won't suddenly at least radically grow.
I can imagine reasons why CCP is doing what they are doing, but that doesn't really mean that I would accept it. In the end this isn't really black and white like "would you like us to fix the old stuff and be all about spaceships" OR "something else". This is something we players often seem to discuss about and IMO is totally wrong thing to argue about. I don't know if this is even something CCP want's us to bang our heads on to ignore the real issue behind the point.
In other words there is no "OR" between these current and new customers. In any successful company it is clear that you have to keep your old customers happy. You can not redirect all your resources just to attract new customers or the journey will end very fast. If you want new customers with some new concept you have to invest and assign more resources to the project while still keeping the old resources doing what they were doing.
As long CCP is not willing to invest greater part of the profits back to Eve and assign more developers to add new content which may or may not draw new subscribers from new target group - things really won't change.
I can only hope that someday some of the other CCP projects which have been eating from Eve start to make enough profits for them to give back to Eve and that CCP actually redirects those resources back to us as well. The flow has been other way around for too long already.
Obviously this is just customer feedback about "what I feel" without any statistical facts to back my beliefs up. Feel free to correct with real info if you know better. Would love to be wrong with this one.
Eve subs have gone up every quarter since WiS was put on the backburner and CCP promised to focus on real Eve content. |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
150
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 02:39:00 -
[2270] - Quote
Oh really? Would you like to provide some evidence for this claim?
Heavy spam of the Power of 2 is by far most likely the reason, which fueled basic requirement to multibox (or at least have multiple accounts) to succeed in this game.
Eve actual subscriber number could easily be only 2/3 of that 500k, due everyone and their grandma having alt accounts.
About the chart... Stop advertising 2nd Life. Don't they have a one account restriction per person in there? I wonder where 800k true sub number is coming from? *starts reeling*
P.S. Rhes, that's a fishing pole ^ |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
303
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 02:46:00 -
[2271] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Heavy spam of the Power of 2 is by far most likely the reason, which fueled basic requirement to multibox (or at least have multiple accounts) to succeed in this game.
Eve actual subscriber number could easily be only 2/3 of that 500k, due everyone and their grandma having alt accounts
Alt accounts are regular accounts as far as CCP's accountants are concerned. Also, if people are purchasing additional accounts it means they are enjoying the game and the direction it's heading.
The point is that there is no proof that neglecting real Eve content again to add more roleplaying nonsense would increase subs in any meaningful number while there is a ton of proof (namely the Summer of Rage) that the opposite is true.
|
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
152
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 03:09:00 -
[2272] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Alt accounts are regular accounts as far as CCP's accountants are concerned. Also, if people are purchasing additional accounts it means they are enjoying the game and the direction it's heading. Nope. For instance, I am hardly satisfied with direction, yet I have an extra account, because playing with just one is practically playing gimped.
Rhes wrote:The point is that there is no proof that neglecting real Eve content again to add more roleplaying nonsense would increase subs in any meaningful number while there is a ton of proof (namely the Summer of Rage) that the opposite is true. Would you explain why you associate WiS with "roleplaying nonsence" only?
The only proof that was brought by "summer of rage" is that:
Roime wrote:<...>Overreacting, hysteric herdmental basement dwellers with entitlement issues gone full ****** is what almost destroyed the game, luckily all they achieved was a broken pixel statue.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 04:53:00 -
[2273] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:The only proof that was brought by "summer of rage" is that: Roime wrote:<...>Overreacting, hysteric herdmental basement dwellers with entitlement issues gone full ****** is what almost destroyed the game, luckily all they achieved was a broken pixel statue.
I guess you didn't play during the Summer of Rage. You know when CCP flew the entire CSM in for an emergency summit to find a way to stem the tide of people fleeing the game. What was achieved, beyond a "broken pixel statue" was a commitment from CCP to focus on actual Eve content...a commitment they have stuck with and the reason why the game is successful now. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
143
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 05:54:00 -
[2274] - Quote
Rhes wrote:I guess you didn't play during the Summer of Rage. You know when CCP flew the entire CSM in for an emergency summit to find a way to stem the tide of people fleeing the game. What was achieved, beyond a "broken pixel statue" was a commitment from CCP to focus on actual Eve content...a commitment they have stuck with and the reason why the game is successful now.
Flip the record brah, that side is gettin too scratched... |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 06:01:00 -
[2275] - Quote
raven666wings wrote: Flip the record brah, that side is gettin too scratched...
Yep, the record skips too much. The most fun stuff - the drivel about the furries - got damaged clearly. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1962
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 06:10:00 -
[2276] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:In then end it is all about resources. In theory if there was enough people developing the game all the major player groups could get what they want. However this obviously would cost more than any company could afford and probably turn the game into something no-one really recognizes as their own anymore.
So... company needs to prioritize what they want to do, with how much resources and what is worth doing.
It seems that CCP has taken the safe path and keeps redirecting some attention to sectors from where the money is currently coming. Those people seem to keep paying and game keeps going. This approach doesn't eat much resources, doesn't need much investments and has very small risks. Positive thing is that as long they keep doing this - Eve won't die :) Downside is that subscription amounts won't suddenly at least radically grow.
I can imagine reasons why CCP is doing what they are doing, but that doesn't really mean that I would accept it. In the end this isn't really black and white like "would you like us to fix the old stuff and be all about spaceships" OR "something else". This is something we players often seem to discuss about and IMO is totally wrong thing to argue about. I don't know if this is even something CCP want's us to bang our heads on to ignore the real issue behind the point.
In other words there is no "OR" between these current and new customers. In any successful company it is clear that you have to keep your old customers happy. You can not redirect all your resources just to attract new customers or the journey will end very fast. If you want new customers with some new concept you have to invest and assign more resources to the project while still keeping the old resources doing what they were doing.
As long CCP is not willing to invest greater part of the profits back to Eve and assign more developers to add new content which may or may not draw new subscribers from new target group - things really won't change.
I can only hope that someday some of the other CCP projects which have been eating from Eve start to make enough profits for them to give back to Eve and that CCP actually redirects those resources back to us as well. The flow has been other way around for too long already.
Obviously this is just customer feedback about "what I feel" without any statistical facts to back my beliefs up. Feel free to correct with real info if you know better. Would love to be wrong with this one.
Well, the point with discussing resources i tightly related to CCP's alternate endeavours. CCP is sitting on a stable pool of money inflowing each year in the line of 90-100 million USD. That money is shared by several departments/offcies, of which there are four woking on games:
- Reykjavik (estimated population: 300-350), the core, jewel of the crown, were every mediocre icelandic software developer who can hold a mouse is joyfully employed along with some of the most talented foreign developers in industry and the few icelanders who can actually develop software (with a population of 240,000 and way better salaries everywhere else, you bet they're barely enough to keep CCP going on).
- Shanghai (est. pop.: 60-80), home of the DUST development team. Through cheap development costs, standard tools and with assistance from the talented guys in Reykjavik, they've managed to produce a daring mediocre shooter which is unlikely that it can pay its own hamsters and is, by all means, in desperate need of even more development. The most daring aspect of DUST, connexion to EVE, has proven to be boring as hell on both ends and there's null demand in EVE to move it beyond its half-assed state.
- Atlanta (est. pop.: 100-120), home to the WoD development team. Here lies most of the hired talent in CCP an is continuously growing as the project they work on is beefed up. Development tasks are slow but steady and those fortunate guys are working in which is, by a stretch, the most innovative and promising project in the house, a true contender to become "EVE 2".
- Newcastle (est. pop.: 30), home to the Valkyrie team. Used to be a ancillary station, and now has been beefed up (if 15 guys can be called "beefing") to develop a little roadside project which could be a big bang but relies on such a small niche that only professional optimists would throw money at it without serious reflexion on its threats/opportunities. Because, Oculus Rift couldn't possibly dud, right?
As you see, there's a lot of work being done, and EVE gets most of it... but if you look at the estimated population in each office, you may notice a funny relation between what EVE got in the past and what it gets now, and what it does not get any longer. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Jita Akachi
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 07:50:00 -
[2277] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:The only proof that was brought by "summer of rage" is that: Roime wrote:<...>Overreacting, hysteric herdmental basement dwellers with entitlement issues gone full ****** is what almost destroyed the game, luckily all they achieved was a broken pixel statue.
I guess you didn't play during the Summer of Rage. You know when CCP flew the entire CSM in for an emergency summit to find a way to stem the tide of people fleeing the game. What was achieved, beyond a "broken pixel statue" was a commitment from CCP to focus on actual Eve content...a commitment they have stuck with and the reason why the game is successful now.
I was shooting statue for hours.. cause microtransaction! And I'm 100% for more wis content, certainly like the majority. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21320
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 08:03:00 -
[2278] - Quote
Tanthalassa wrote:Yep, the record skips too much. The most fun stuff - the drivel about the furries - got damaged clearly. Really? Damn... that was my favorite part! "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
754
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 08:31:00 -
[2279] - Quote
I thought we established long ago that Rhes is selective in his facts and incorrectly conflates Incarna with the anger over microtransations.
Meanwhile Star Citizen with it's avatar gameplay passes the 20 million dollar mark.
I find the whole "OMG $75 FOR MONOCLE" hilarious, especially when you look at the money people are paying in games like Star Citizen and Entropia. It's crazy. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1597
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 08:47:00 -
[2280] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:In then end it is all about resources. In theory if there was enough people developing the game all the major player groups could get what they want. However this obviously would cost more than any company could afford and probably turn the game into something no-one really recognizes as their own anymore.
So... company needs to prioritize what they want to do, with how much resources and what is worth doing.
It seems that CCP has taken the safe path and keeps redirecting some attention to sectors from where the money is currently coming. Those people seem to keep paying and game keeps going. This approach doesn't eat much resources, doesn't need much investments and has very small risks. Positive thing is that as long they keep doing this - Eve won't die :) Downside is that subscription amounts won't suddenly at least radically grow.
I can imagine reasons why CCP is doing what they are doing, but that doesn't really mean that I would accept it. In the end this isn't really black and white like "would you like us to fix the old stuff and be all about spaceships" OR "something else". This is something we players often seem to discuss about and IMO is totally wrong thing to argue about. I don't know if this is even something CCP want's us to bang our heads on to ignore the real issue behind the point.
In other words there is no "OR" between these current and new customers. In any successful company it is clear that you have to keep your old customers happy. You can not redirect all your resources just to attract new customers or the journey will end very fast. If you want new customers with some new concept you have to invest and assign more resources to the project while still keeping the old resources doing what they were doing.
As long CCP is not willing to invest greater part of the profits back to Eve and assign more developers to add new content which may or may not draw new subscribers from new target group - things really won't change.
I can only hope that someday some of the other CCP projects which have been eating from Eve start to make enough profits for them to give back to Eve and that CCP actually redirects those resources back to us as well. The flow has been other way around for too long already.
Obviously this is just customer feedback about "what I feel" without any statistical facts to back my beliefs up. Feel free to correct with real info if you know better. Would love to be wrong with this one. Eve subs have gone up every quarter since WiS was put on the backburner and CCP promised to focus on real Eve content.
Yea well... I don't start arguing about that as Eve subs have actually been going slowly up for 10 years already. However I would hardly call ~35k "new" subs / year a "great" success specially when many of them come from alt accounts. CCP is doing ok with Eve but surely there is plenty of room to improve.
I really would turn the discussion towards questions like: "Do you think that CCP has assigned development hours and _actual finished content_ to Eve in steady relation with the subscriber graphs they provide?", "Does player really even know what (game) he is funding when he buys the plex or pays the sub fee?", "Would it be justified to demand more investments back to the Eve than it is getting at the moment?"
Get |
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Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1937
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 09:21:00 -
[2281] - Quote
Irrelevant. Eve subs have gone up every quarterly since the game was launched. Your arbitrarily referring to WiS in the middle is just misleading and has nothing to do with it. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
842
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 09:41:00 -
[2282] - Quote
Few hours ago GIC routinely - as an answer to questions on forums - announced they'll add functionality to use additional character slots to create customized NPCs to use them as crew members on multi-sit ships in Star Citizen. People says they will re-create Firefly, Star Trek, Babylon, Matrix teams. Devs didn't even trumped that as an innovative feature - they just stated it will help them to gather money to support network infrastructure after release (additional characters aren't free in most games - in EVE it's ~200$ per year per active character).
Low/null-sec oriented Rubicon features looks a bit depressive compared to that. Considering half of SC's gameplay will be ready in December-April and the rest in August-November - it seems CCP lost its last chance to hold RP fans. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
232
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 10:22:00 -
[2283] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:it seems CCP lost its last chance to hold RP fans.
I wouldn't be this drastic. People RP in EVE because they love the backstory and backdrop, not because they can prance around space stations. Ushra'khan has been around since almost the beginning when EvE was frankly very basic and lacked almost everything we consider essential to the game today and nobody had even thought of WiS.
However to many new players humanoid avatars are an important way to anchor their RP, they're used to it from most other online games they've played. |
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1599
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 10:47:00 -
[2284] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tanthalassa wrote:The only proof that was brought by "summer of rage" is that: Roime wrote:<...>Overreacting, hysteric herdmental basement dwellers with entitlement issues gone full ****** is what almost destroyed the game, luckily all they achieved was a broken pixel statue.
I guess you didn't play during the Summer of Rage. You know when CCP flew the entire CSM in for an emergency summit to find a way to stem the tide of people fleeing the game. What was achieved, beyond a "broken pixel statue" was a commitment from CCP to focus on actual Eve content...a commitment they have stuck with and the reason why the game is successful now.
...in the end most of the "rage" you're referring to was about 3 things:
1) CCP removed ship spinning hangar against peoples will and replaced it with CQ. 2) CCP introduced aurum and micro transactions. 3) WiS was about 1 million miles from what people expected to get.
My personal opinion is that number 1 went wrong mainly because they forcefully replaced the hangar with something what loads slower and eats much more computer resources ignoring the huge group of players who run multible game clients simultaneously. It's not really about removing the ship spinning but forcefully replacing it with worse alternative with slower undocking/docking cycle and with greater hardware requirements. The hate was there since the thing got released to SiSi and facts were on the table. CCP ignored everything and bulldozed their "excellent" plan to tranq probably mainly because they wanted to make sure that everyone will see the new aurum store and items every time they dock.
When you add aurum and micro transactions to the mess described above you will probably come to same conclusion that people had all the right to become angry. CCP had just nerfed the game from people who actually undock from the station and play with spaceships. At same time they expect them to buy clothes for their new barbies with aurum while they keep paying their monthly subs for themselves and all their alts. Obviously we can't forget the WoT and ghost of similar gold ammo suddenly ending to aurum store after someone forgets some of the promises they had maybe or maybe not made.
Now if we look even further back I'm sure that we all can agree with the fact that with all the resources WiS has taken so far it should have been in game few years ago already. However CCP has ruined it every time by having their own agenda hidden behind the curtain. In fact the vision was in order only when 1st prototype was introduced 1st time many many years ago. We all know that the plan was then later /dev/nulled and replaced with awesome vampires and later with the micro transactions with no actual game play what so ever.
It has never really been about WiS. It has always been about CCP's really crappy decisions behind closed curtains, false information, greedy agenda and empty promises. There has been countless wasted dev hours only because they have failed in their hidden plans. It has been unfortunate road but the players or their wishes are not the ones we can blame here. WiS is just one seemingly good feature what CCP prototyped to players in fanfest 2008 and failed to delivered as "introduced".
This brings us to #3 in the list. If you go to captains quarters now you see what Incarna expansion brought. It is not players fault and Eves benefit that the thing in tranq today is not what CCP prototyped.
For further studying: Walking in Stations with Torfi Olafsson
Get |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
280
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 14:15:00 -
[2285] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Lipbite wrote:it seems CCP lost its last chance to hold RP fans. I wouldn't be this drastic. People RP in EVE because they love the backstory and backdrop, not because they can prance around space stations. Ushra'khan has been around since almost the beginning when EvE was frankly very basic and lacked almost everything we consider essential to the game today and nobody had even thought of WiS. However to many new players humanoid avatars are an important way to anchor their RP, they're used to it from most other online games they've played.
This quote does it for me and this will be my last post in this thread. I dont need an avatar walking around dancing to RP. I can still pretend to be a dark mysterious WH dweller using spaceships to interact or local/ingame Chat rooms.
BTW, Rubicon looks ******* amazing ya numptys "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1965
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 14:17:00 -
[2286] - Quote
Job Valador wrote:Teinyhr wrote:Lipbite wrote:it seems CCP lost its last chance to hold RP fans. I wouldn't be this drastic. People RP in EVE because they love the backstory and backdrop, not because they can prance around space stations. Ushra'khan has been around since almost the beginning when EvE was frankly very basic and lacked almost everything we consider essential to the game today and nobody had even thought of WiS. However to many new players humanoid avatars are an important way to anchor their RP, they're used to it from most other online games they've played. This quote does it for me and this will be my last post in this thread. I dont need an avatar walking around dancing to RP. I can still pretend to be a dark mysterious WH dweller using spaceships to interact or local/ingame Chat rooms. BTW, Rubicon looks ******* amazing ya numptys
So you tired of pretending to be a WiSer already? Tsk tsk, children don't know the meaning of "patience" nowadays. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
955
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 14:21:00 -
[2287] - Quote
Stop talking to it (the Rhes thing) .. its just like a voicemail message, no matter how much you try to reason with it, it will keep auto repeating. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21322
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 14:56:00 -
[2288] - Quote
Hey Ish, hey people, look what just surfaced on the SC site: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13288-Multiple-Package-Clarification I guess we have the lacking avatar customization out of the way, no? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
955
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 15:02:00 -
[2289] - Quote
Was linking that in corp chat earlier this morning, looks absolutely awesome for basically being a doodle on a paper for now. Also even after I said I wouldn't be buying anything now I have to go buy some character slots This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21322
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 15:30:00 -
[2290] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Was linking that in corp chat earlier this morning, looks absolutely awesome for basically being a doodle on a paper for now. Also even after I said I wouldn't be buying anything now I have to go buy some character slots I'll buy a scond basic ship too next month... for now I'm happy with the Freelancer package. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
145
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 15:52:00 -
[2291] - Quote
Avatar gameplay??? Roleplaying in a sci-fi game setting???
Ffs CCP!!! Don't make us do a Summer of Tantrum again!!! We roleplay only in Second Life with other basement dwellers and in LoL with 12 year olds!!!! |
Varactyl Charante
Ceiling Roof
35
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 16:20:00 -
[2292] - Quote
If this game is a mix of Deadspace, Shattered Horizon, SWTOR, HALO, and Splinter Cell: Blacklist we could have something good on our hands. I'm sorry to whoever had the hostage, but I may have just sawed them in half. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1939
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 17:36:00 -
[2293] - Quote
Varactyl Charante wrote:Deadspace.
If it were just a copy of Deadspace I would be thrilled. Thought that game was amazing and incredibly intense for a 3rd person game.
Unfortunately with Dust, Valkyrie and all their current plan sucking up their development time, this is just a pipe dream. I imagine Dust will cripple Eve for a while, because it's out subs that are paying for Dust development and they only have about 3000 un-paying players online at any one time so Dust doesn't look like it will ever pay for itself, it will just suck up Eve development time and profits for the rest of time. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
307
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 17:38:00 -
[2294] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:Stop talking to it (the Rhes thing) .. its just like a voicemail message, no matter how much you try to reason with it, it will keep auto repeating.
I'll keep repeating the truth until somebody proves it's not. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1939
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 17:50:00 -
[2295] - Quote
Rhes wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:Stop talking to it (the Rhes thing) .. its just like a voicemail message, no matter how much you try to reason with it, it will keep auto repeating. I'll keep repeating the truth until somebody proves it's not.
Calling it the truth doesn't make it the truth. Also, you proved that it wasn't yourself enough times. Maybe if you addressed people's counter-arguments instead of just stamping your feet and repeating yourself people might take you a little more seriously. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
439
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 20:16:00 -
[2296] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1976
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 12:36:00 -
[2297] - Quote
Heh, why, oh why, do i like hurting myself?
Probably you know that back in 2007-2008, CCP ordered some fashion concept designs for Ambulation. Two of those concept designs are well known to WiSers, but being the curious masochist i am, I wondered wether the other concept designs could be found online.
They are, at the home page of artist Harpa Einarsd+¦ttir, who made them. I had never seen them before.
So have a look and wheep along with me for what was lost, what is not, and will never be.
(Note: most bloodlines are not identified, so I'm just guessing who's who)
Unidentified male
Amarran? female
Jin Mei female
Caldari? male
Verokhior? female
Exotic Dancer
Intaki female
Achura? female
Jin Mei female
Gallente female (yes, it's the prototype to the "Dat Ass" catsuit)
Unidentifed female
Sebiestor? female
Jin Mei female
Achuran? Female
Caldari? female
Khanid? female
What a crying shame, CCP. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21335
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 12:59:00 -
[2298] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:What a crying shame, CCP. Agreed... but since then, much has changed. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1977
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 13:03:00 -
[2299] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:What a crying shame, CCP. Agreed... but since then, much has changed.
Not us.
And in the worst sense, neither has changed EVEr The Same. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21335
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 13:28:00 -
[2300] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Not us. And in the worst sense, neither has changed EVEr The Same. True... but hey, good thing that we will have alternatives pretty soon, no? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
236
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:24:00 -
[2301] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: (bunch of awesome concept art)
Damn.
Those Jin-Mei robes. Those beautiful robes. Why aren't these a reality? |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
336
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 14:50:00 -
[2302] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: (bunch of awesome concept art)
Damn. Those Jin-Mei robes. Those beautiful robes. Why aren't these a reality?
Because of spaceships. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
236
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 15:00:00 -
[2303] - Quote
I would relinquish all of my spaceships except one for this robe and it's accessories. Well, probably wouldn't need the sword. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
960
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 15:37:00 -
[2304] - Quote
gallente females ftw ... :D
and that exotic dancer ... yeahhhh baby ! This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Taiwanistan
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 16:03:00 -
[2305] - Quote
and we're back to the problem of wis, and why it should be dumped TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
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Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1939
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 16:12:00 -
[2306] - Quote
As much as I would like more Avatar customisation I have to agree with Taiwanistan here for a change. Not about the reason it should be dumped thing. You don't dump a good idea because a couple of people want it to be slightly different to how you do. Baby and bath water and all that. Either way though, what exactly would be the point of implementing any of those before we have any game-play?
Now, I want WiS content more than the next guy but we need something solid that interacts with Eve meaningfully before any more arts development is put in. Implement the prototype first, and get multiple Avatars in one environment (the big hurdle), work on some other group environments, and then add some more clothing options in afterwards when the clothing can actually be seen by other people. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
229
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 16:26:00 -
[2307] - Quote
Ardument: A walking space to access all of the neocom features would provide a far better New Player Experience than a tutorial pointing to things on the Neocom. New players will explore the station, and learn what they can do there. When they need to do it faster, they'll learn how to do so.
Regarding Rhes: He's a Goon. Does it really take another member of the CFC to remind you that Goons are trolls? (They're lovely fantastic trolls of awesome, but trolls nonetheless.) |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1981
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 16:26:00 -
[2308] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:As much as I would like more Avatar customisation I have to agree with Taiwanistan here for a change. Not about the reason it should be dumped thing. You don't dump a good idea because a couple of people want it to be slightly different to how you do. Baby and bath water and all that. Either way though, what exactly would be the point of implementing any of those before we have any game-play?
Now, I want WiS content more than the next guy but we need something solid that interacts with Eve meaningfully before any more arts development is put in. Implement the prototype first, and get multiple Avatars in one environment (the big hurdle), work on some other group environments, and then add some more clothing options in afterwards when the clothing can actually be seen by other people.
Customization is a "instead of", not a "on top of". Anyway i don't hope to get anything avatar related in any sensible future.
The Hallelujah Plan has been heralded and it summarizes as "more nullsec and less hisec". Avatar gameplay litherally haves no place there. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1588
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 16:27:00 -
[2309] - Quote
I don't think Ish, J3ss, Shalua, or anyone else for that matter, would really take vanity features over meaningful gameplay. I think they're just discussing it because 1. that stuff would be cool to have one day and 2. there's not much else going on in this thread worth discussing at the moment.
Since CCP isn't even remotely entertaining the idea of any sort of WiS at the moment, we have to do it ourselves. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1981
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 16:34:00 -
[2310] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:I don't think Ish, J3ss, Shalua, or anyone else for that matter, would really take vanity features over meaningful gameplay. I think they're just discussing it because 1. that stuff would be cool to have one day and 2. there's not much else going on in this thread worth discussing at the moment.
Since CCP isn't even remotely entertaining the idea of any sort of WiS at the moment, we have to do it ourselves.
Customization is the maximum we can expect to get at the moment, as the Hallelujah Plan turns to be about nullsec space only.
(No, it won't be nullsec as in sov-space, rather some sort of player-spawned space pockets accessible only through player-made gates; anyway, it will be 0.0 security and likely will be quite away and inaccessible from hisec). The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1939
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 16:45:00 -
[2311] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote:I don't think Ish, J3ss, Shalua, or anyone else for that matter, would really take vanity features over meaningful gameplay. I think they're just discussing it because 1. that stuff would be cool to have one day and 2. there's not much else going on in this thread worth discussing at the moment.
Since CCP isn't even remotely entertaining the idea of any sort of WiS at the moment, we have to do it ourselves. Customization is the maximum we can expect to get at the moment, as the Hallelujah Plan turns to be about nullsec space only. (No, it won't be nullsec as in sov-space, rather some sort of player-spawned space pockets accessible only through player-made gates; anyway, it will be 0.0 security and likely will be quite away and inaccessible from hisec).
I can't help but feel this new plan is very much the same as their old WiS plan.
"We're going to let Capsuleers explore NEW space!"
No one has said what the difference between this new space and all old space will be. We might end up with random systems that aren't any different to any other space where we can do the same things as we could in all the other system... BUT, it's technically our space.
Kind of like our Captains Quarters. It just seems like they're going to end up in the same place as they did before. With bugger all for their hype. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
313
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 17:24:00 -
[2312] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:I don't think Ish, J3ss, Shalua, or anyone else for that matter, would really take vanity features over meaningful gameplay.
Of course they would. That's exactly what they are asking for in this thread.
They are crying over robes ffs.
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21335
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 18:20:00 -
[2313] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:2. there's not much else going on in this thread worth discussing at the moment. Not this thread and not this game. CCP made it pretty clear that their target group for the "future EVE" is narrowed down to low/null sec corps, faction warfare and SOV... so, "everything ship vs ship PvP"... not much else seams to be important to them at this point.
It's no big secret that WiS in combination with meaningful avatar gameplay (owning businesses on stations etc.) would have been aimed first and foremost at highsec and industrial/trading players... so CCPs new plan is basically not only a refusal to WiS, but to the whole "non ship to ship PvP" part of EVE, and it's players.
CCP seams to be only able to plan in extremes... they always seam to have to ignore one side of the game to focus on the other one... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
313
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 18:30:00 -
[2314] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:It's no big secret that WiS in combination with meaningful avatar gameplay (owning businesses on stations etc.) would have been aimed first and foremost at highsec and industrial/trading players... so CCPs new plan is basically not only a refusal to WiS, but to the whole "non ship to ship PvP" part of EVE, and it's players
The "non ship to ship PvP' part of Eve has never been stronger. There seem to be plenty of people out there mining, trading, building, inventing and shipping who don't need wizard robes or dance emotes to have fun in this game.
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1982
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:16:00 -
[2315] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote:2. there's not much else going on in this thread worth discussing at the moment. Not this thread and not this game. CCP made it pretty clear that their target group for the "future EVE" is narrowed down to low/null sec corps, faction warfare and SOV... so, "everything ship vs ship PvP"... not much else seams to be important to them at this point. It's no big secret that WiS in combination with meaningful avatar gameplay (owning businesses on stations etc.) would have been aimed first and foremost at highsec and industrial/trading players... so CCPs new plan is basically not only a refusal to WiS, but to the whole "non ship to ship PvP" part of EVE, and it's players. CCP seams to be only able to plan in extremes... they always seam to have to ignore one side of the game to focus on the other one...
Maybe they already made their minds and have given up to keep gaining new players, and so just leave that job to other games (World of Darkness, Valkyrie and maybe DUST 514) and instead focus EVE in preserving the existing player base with EVEr The Same. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Mhax Arthie
133
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:25:00 -
[2316] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:It's no big secret that WiS in combination with meaningful avatar gameplay (owning businesses on stations etc.) would have been aimed first and foremost at highsec and industrial/trading players... so CCPs new plan is basically not only a refusal to WiS, but to the whole "non ship to ship PvP" part of EVE, and it's players The "non ship to ship PvP' part of Eve has never been stronger. There seem to be plenty of people out there mining, trading, building, inventing and shipping who don't need wizard robes or dance emotes to have fun in this game. Avatar gameplay is not only about emotes and gudfait in Jita cantina, it's a whole new playstyle, a very dangerous one. Just imagine the havoc a group of marines could do by boarding an enemy ship during a huge fleet battle. Or infiltraring an enemy POS or station. But ofc this is vay too much for CCP, not even a whole decade would be enough to pull this out. Rebalancing dots in space over and over is much more convenient. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
901
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:48:00 -
[2317] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote:I don't think Ish, J3ss, Shalua, or anyone else for that matter, would really take vanity features over meaningful gameplay. Of course they would. That's exactly what they are asking for in this thread. They are crying over robes ffs.
They also want a tank with fishes. The Tears Must Flow |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21335
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 20:08:00 -
[2318] - Quote
Mhax Arthie wrote:Avatar gameplay is not only about emotes and gudfait in Jita cantina, it's a whole new playstyle, a very dangerous one. Just imagine the havoc a group of marines could do by boarding an enemy ship during a huge fleet battle. Or infiltraring an enemy POS or station. But ofc this is vay too much for CCP, not even a whole decade would be enough to pull this out. Rebalancing dots in space over and over is much more convenient. True... sure, it would have been much easier to implement stuff like that, if EVE would have had been made with avatar game play of that magnitude in mind, in the first place... still, it wouldn't be impossible to implement, if CCP would be willing to really try it... alas, they aren't, and most likely never will be, ever again. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
336
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 20:24:00 -
[2319] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Rhes wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote:I don't think Ish, J3ss, Shalua, or anyone else for that matter, would really take vanity features over meaningful gameplay. Of course they would. That's exactly what they are asking for in this thread. They are crying over robes ffs. They also want a tank with fishes. Whitch would destroy your game right? Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
961
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 20:37:00 -
[2320] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote:I don't think Ish, J3ss, Shalua, or anyone else for that matter, would really take vanity features over meaningful gameplay. Of course they would. That's exactly what they are asking for in this thread. They are crying over robes ffs.
if you hate WiS so much why do you even have an avatar? Should have left the silhouette space holder .. yet you went to the trouble of making your face and moustache and put clothes on and finding the background you liked . Ah hypocrisy, such an ugly beast. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
961
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 20:40:00 -
[2321] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Rhes wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote:I don't think Ish, J3ss, Shalua, or anyone else for that matter, would really take vanity features over meaningful gameplay. Of course they would. That's exactly what they are asking for in this thread. They are crying over robes ffs. They also want a tank with fishes.
I wonder who will have the last laugh when we get our tank with fishes in another game that seems to be what WiS should have been like here. Because if you believe that it's all about the "tank with fishes, wizard robes and toilets" then you are sorely mistaken. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21335
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 20:46:00 -
[2322] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Whitch would destroy your game right? Don't feed the troll...
...although, living on a diet of retalin and carebear tears can't be really healthy...
I changed my mind, FEED the troll! "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra Gallente Federation
68
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 20:59:00 -
[2323] - Quote
..Hey, this Eve game looks pretty cool. Spaceships, sweet! Thousand of solar systems to explore and conquer! Space combat! Oh man, Wormholes! Now, if they just added planets we can walk on and Evac Suits and /dance emotes and fashion, this would be a pretty awesome game!
Cheese and Rice.
CCP: /History Channel Guy - Spaceships!
Eve the UNIVERSE is more then just spaceships. Its a long history and very content rich. I've read he booms and the chronicles. Its awesome, and I love it.
BUT!
Eve the VIDEO GAME is about spaceships. All the other stuff is just not practical. Sorry.
I have to laugh. CCP being CCP. Lets do WiS! Lets make a FPS! Lets make PANTS for the players avatars! Holy cow lets make EVACSUITS!! And looting! Gamers love looting!
Good thing Eve players are intelligent enough to knock CCP back on track whenever they forget that Eve is Spaceships. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1940
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 21:03:00 -
[2324] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..Hey, this Eve game looks pretty cool. Spaceships, sweet! Thousand of solar systems to explore and conquer! Space combat! Oh man, Wormholes! Now, if they just added planets we can walk on and Evac Suits and /dance emotes and fashion, this would be a pretty awesome game!
Cheese and Rice.
CCP: /History Channel Guy - Spaceships!
Eve the UNIVERSE is more then just spaceships. Its a long history and very content rich. I've read he booms and the chronicles. Its awesome, and I love it.
BUT!
Eve the VIDEO GAME is about spaceships. All the other stuff is just not practical. Sorry.
I have to laugh. CCP being CCP. Lets do WiS! Lets make a FPS! Lets make PANTS for the players avatars! Holy cow lets make EVACSUITS!! And looting! Gamers love looting!
Good thing Eve players are intelligent enough to knock CCP back on track whenever they forget that Eve is Spaceships.
I don't even... "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 21:27:00 -
[2325] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:if you hate WiS so much why do you even have an avatar? Should have left the silhouette space holder .. yet you went to the trouble of making your face and moustache and put clothes on and finding the background you liked . Ah hypocrisy, such an ugly beast.
When Incarna was released I gave it a shot. I logged in, created my new avatar and then logged in to my captain's quarters. I walked (very, very slowly) around my couch and then logged out. I realized that Eve had been neglected for two years for a really in-depth character creator and a room with a couch and I canceled all my subs. Once CCP apologized for almost destroying the game and promised to refocus on spaceship content I resubbed.
Unlike some people in this thread I spoke with my wallet. The only hypocrisy I see are people who say they can't enjoy this game without bathrobes and dance emotes but continue to pay (for multiple subs even!). |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 21:32:00 -
[2326] - Quote
Mhax Arthie wrote:Avatar gameplay is not only about emotes and gudfait in Jita cantina, it's a whole new playstyle, a very dangerous one. Just imagine the havoc a group of marines could do by boarding an enemy ship during a huge fleet battle. Or infiltraring an enemy POS or station. But ofc this is vay too much for CCP, not even a whole decade would be enough to pull this out. Rebalancing dots in space over and over is much more convenient.
Based on what was released for Incarna, the complete failure of Dust and the lack of progress on WoD do you really believe CCP has the ability to add that type of gameplay to Eve without once again neglecting the core gameplay that the game was founded upon?
Listen, I like CCP a lot as a company and I really enjoy their spaceship mmo. That's why I don't want to see them get misled by a small handful of people who think Eve is something it's not.
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21335
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 21:46:00 -
[2327] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:Good thing Eve players are intelligent enough to knock CCP back on track whenever they forget that Eve is Spaceships. Pity, said players also knock off some of their own, each time that happens... but yea, necessary sacrifices, right?
No matter... pretty soon EVE will be the only (successful) spaceship game that is JUST about spaceships... hope all you intelligent players will be happy then.
...vision is scary. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
321
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 21:53:00 -
[2328] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:No matter... pretty soon EVE will be the only (successful) spaceship game that is JUST about spaceships... hope all you intelligent players will be happy then. ...vision is scary.
We are already happy and we're also excited about CCP's vision for the future of Eve. I feel bad for people who are too narrow-minded to see that vision even if it lacks dance emotes and bathrobes.
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
147
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 23:53:00 -
[2329] - Quote
We use bathrobes and emotes only in Second Lyfe and LoL guyz! EVE is spaceshipz |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
321
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 00:02:00 -
[2330] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:We use bathrobes and emotes only in Second Lyfe and LoL guyz! EVE is spaceshipz
Now you're getting it.
|
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Syds Sinclair
Aliastra Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 00:02:00 -
[2331] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:Good thing Eve players are intelligent enough to knock CCP back on track whenever they forget that Eve is Spaceships. Pity, said players also knock off some of their own, each time that happens... but yea, necessary sacrifices, right? No matter... pretty soon EVE will be the only (successful) spaceship game that is JUST about spaceships... hope all you intelligent players will be happy then. ...vision is scary.
..I'm assuming that you think Star Citizen is going to be the Eve Killer. How original.
I played WoW off and on over the years (flame on!) and every so often, angry WoW players would hype whatever new MMO that was on the horizon as "The WoW Killer.". Anyone remember any of those games? They killed WoW, right?
Let's revisit some:
Fury CAoR Rift GW2 WHO (Warhammer online. WoW bittervets dubbed it WoW. Waiting On Warhammer. It was a long wait. Aion SW:TOR
And I'm sure I'm missing a few. Which one killed WoW? None, you say? That's right, and there is a reason for that.
WoW was established, with many patches of content. Each and every MMO had to walk straight up to the big beefy king and try to dethrone him. But they lacked the years of content, and it was not economically feasible to postpone the game(s) until they had enough content to rival the king.
How bout Eve? Oh yeah, 10 years of content. 10 yeas as the only spaceship on the block. 10 years of what works and what doesn't. 10 years of history that has gotten the mainstream news coverage! Hell, even Glen Beck accused the Goons of being a CIA team! Glen Beck. Eve. Goons. National prime time TV!
But back to WoW. What's that you say? WoW IS dying? Something MUST have killed WoW,so Eve too, can be slain?
Well, gentle carebears, like usual, you are half right.
WoW IS dying. It was defiantly slain. But it wasn't a murder. It was suicide. WoW killed itself by introducing content that drastically conflicted with the established player base. They didn't listen to the criticism from their community, they would not be talked down off the ledge.
Pandas = Walking in station.
To CCP. You have made a great game that is loved by many. You have grown your company from a small Icelandic startup to a international and well respected powerhouse. You have offices and staff members in many different countries. You have a lot of very nice assets.
Never forget your most valuable asset. The passionate capsuleers who are your voice of reason. Well tell ya when your bein stupid.
*Edit. iPads and Forums don't play nice. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
148
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 00:29:00 -
[2332] - Quote
Yes CCP, we'll tell you when your being stupid! And btw if you guys in Iceland want to play OUR game too you can subscribe by giving us some special spaceships and isk loads ingame.
Dont make me shoot ze statue CCP!!! |
Lateris
40
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 02:30:00 -
[2333] - Quote
MY only feedback for an Eve MMO-RPG with "avatars" is to make a separate game that ties into Eve Online. A full fedged MMO_RPG for Eve Avatars only separate from this client\game. Same system, same engine, but heavily scripted for avatars and the lifespan of a avatar. A sandbox made for the societies of Eve Online amongdt the politicians, the working class, the scientist, and even other ends of New Edens ecceltic sociies.
.:=[ObscuriLateris.com--áMining Corp]=:. .:=[ObscuriSoft.com- Soft Development]=:. |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
310
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 02:50:00 -
[2334] - Quote
Lateris wrote:MY only feedback for an Eve MMO-RPG with "avatars" is to make a separate game that ties into Eve Online. A full fedged MMO_RPG for Eve Avatars only separate from this client\game. Same system, same engine, but heavily scripted for avatars and the lifespan of a avatar. A sandbox made for the societies of Eve Online amongdt the politicians, the working class, the scientist, and even other ends of New Edens ecceltic sociies.
Great idea!
Lets make a separate VR spaceship game with hands on flight controls, then lets make a separate avatar game for social interaction and RP, then lets make a separate game with avatar FPS play..... and they can all tie in to the game that has a deacades old graphical view of spaceships and we can call it a "universe".
Or we can go play a fresh new take on "internet spaceships" that combines all that in one login, on one platform. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 03:47:00 -
[2335] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Or we can go play a fresh new take on "internet spaceships" that combines all that in one login, on one platform.
I think this is a fantastic idea for anybody who can't play an internet spaceship game without dress-up Barbie attached. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
148
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 03:57:00 -
[2336] - Quote
Rhes wrote:I think this is a fantastic idea for anybody who can't play an internet spaceship game without dress-up Barbie attached.
Its a fantastic idea for people that want a real space simulator sci-fi mmorpg and not tiny squares and spreadsheets. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 03:59:00 -
[2337] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Its a fantastic idea for people that want a real space simulator sci-fi mmorpg and not tiny squares and spreadsheets.
If people feel this way about Eve I have to question why they are paying a subscription fee for it.
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
148
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 04:04:00 -
[2338] - Quote
Rhes wrote: If people feel this way about Eve I have to question why they are paying a subscription fee for it.
Lol unsubbed 2 years ago when Incarna plan was dropped |
Flamespar
Woof Club
758
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 05:57:00 -
[2339] - Quote
There is an interesting article on Jester's Trek about the success of recent expansions http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/feast-and-famine.html
It's interesting that according to his analysis that not only was Incarna was generally a major failure (a fact which nobody disputes). But it's interesting that Inferno was also a major failure and Odyssey is shaping up to be pretty meh as well.
Pointing the finger at a single feature (ie Avatars) and screaming hysterically that they are going to 'doom' EVE is sheer idiocy and comes from lazy blinkered analysis.
Now let's wait for the senseless wild-eyed arm-flapping high-pitched retort from our very own goon squad. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1990
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 07:00:00 -
[2340] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:There is an interesting article on Jester's Trek about the success of recent expansions http://jestertrek.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/feast-and-famine.htmlIt's interesting that according to his analysis that not only was Incarna was generally a major failure (a fact which nobody disputes). But it's interesting that Inferno was also a major failure and Odyssey is shaping up to be pretty meh as well. Pointing the finger at a single feature (ie Avatars) and screaming hysterically that they are going to 'doom' EVE is sheer idiocy and comes from lazy blinkered analysis. Now let's wait for the senseless wild-eyed arm-flapping high-pitched retort from our very own goon squad.
Well, and then take into account that barely holding the pre-Incursion PCU is taking a massive effort, reselling the game to former and existing players... and without that life support, the trend woud be clearly downwards.
And my question is: WHO is leaving the game?
It is very tempting to answer: The ones who are not being attended by CCP.
It may be wrong. Maybe it's the ungrateful bastids who leave the game, albeit they are vocally satisfied with the "asploding spreadsheets" approach.
But provided how I am unsubscribed, oldbutfeelingyoung is unsubscribed, raven666wings is unsubscribed, and God knows who else is running accounts on PLEX/discounts/anything but handing out 15 euros each month to CCP, plus all the people who started the thread and no longer can be seen merely a year later, maybe there is a pattern of "not getting love = not subscribing". The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21342
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 07:33:00 -
[2341] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..I'm assuming that you think Star Citizen is going to be the Eve Killer. How original. You assume wrong... read again, I wrote "successful" spaceship game... all I'm saying is that EVE, like WoW, might kill itself due to stagnation some day, and with the upcoming competition (of which EVE, unlike WoW, didn't have ANY for 10 years), that day could be here sooner then some people think. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
238
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 07:33:00 -
[2342] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Unlike some people in this thread I spoke with my wallet. The only hypocrisy I see are people who say they can't enjoy this game without bathrobes and dance emotes but continue to pay (for multiple subs even!).
Let me try to explain this to you so that you understand. This is absolutely the last time I'll reply to your posts and will hide them after your reply if you keep blabbing your tired old troll answers.
First, I'm pretty sure we keep paying for the game because we love it. We love the story, we love the spaceships, we love the pew pew or we love the space rocks and space production lines or space markets. That's why I keep paying my sub. I love this game. But, second, I would love this game to expand beyond spaceships and space industry. I would love to meet you on some station so I can punch your character right in the kisser and then offer you my hand and a drink, hell, maybe even some work. Sure i could do that right now, but to me it would add some depth to the experience with actual humanoid avatars. I think it's just a human thing. And I would love to look stylish doing all that. I really don't think that would be too much to ask.
I've refuted many points before in this thread, among them that focusing on spaceships should not take anything away from WiS and vice versa. They had a fully working prototype of incarna the same time they made expansions Trinity-Empyrean Age-Quantum Rise. All of these expansions took a lot of work, especially Trinity which overhauled the graphics engine at the time, Empyrean Age brought with it the Factional Warfare system. The ambulation demo was largely feature complete. Now, pray tell, how can they not work on WiS and FiS at the same time if they could do so with a smaller team years ago? Really, tell me, how? Only reason I can think of that they're dead set on focusing on one thing at a time because apparently they no longer have no people working there that can effectively distribute workloads, and are happy to call regular larger patches "expansions."
If you ask me, there has not really been anything worthy of the title of an expansion since Tyrannis, since that is the last time we got an actual meaningful gameplay addition to the game, that actually expanded the game, and was not just rebalancing or reworking the old features. Would say Incarna too, in theory, but as we all know it has no meaningful gameplay features attached to it. I'm not saying it's not important that they work on improving the older content, but they should not be titled expansions.
Flame away. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21342
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 07:43:00 -
[2343] - Quote
Exactly... there never will be an EVE killer, other hen EVE itself.
Besides, comparing EVE with WoW is moot... each time a WoW competitor did hit the market, 1000s of players left WoW to check that new game out, and some didn't return, but that was no real problem for Blizzard, since they had millions of subscribers. Now, if EVE would loose, say, "only" 150 k players to SC and 100 k to Elite Dangerous... even if some of those players would eventually return... that would be a subscription hit CCP wouldn't be able to cope with for long. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
759
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 07:47:00 -
[2344] - Quote
Not to mention that player attitudes and preferences change.
It's a competitive market. Thanks to games like Star Citizen, CCP will finally have to learn to compete. As opposed to making and breaking promises. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
968
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 10:19:00 -
[2345] - Quote
Teinyhr you can try to reason with the goon but rest assured he will use a recycled post from the previous 112 pages which will include some or all of the following keywords : Barbie, emotes, furries, second life This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
355
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 11:15:00 -
[2346] - Quote
A thought for discussion - is CCP capable of creating a full-fledged avatar gaming universe? |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1943
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 12:13:00 -
[2347] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:A thought for discussion - is CCP capable of creating a full-fledged avatar gaming universe?
Not without letting go of developer resources for one of their precious hobby projects. Ie, Dust, Valkyrie, World of Darkness. If they would do that, then yes I believe they would be able to do it.
Crucible, my favorite expansion of all time and one of the biggest boosts to active player numbers we have ever had, managed double the in-space content of any expansion since then. Literally double. Go to the Crucible expansion page and have a quick read. Also, they included as big a balancing effort as every expansion after it.
On top of that, they also released more than 4 times the WiS content of Incarna. They released the three other CQs, plus other cloths, optimizations and tweaks. So, if CCP can do that, then we know they can. Also, I would like to point out, the Avatar exploration gameplay prototype was built during that development cycle. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21361
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 12:14:00 -
[2348] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:A thought for discussion - is CCP capable of creating a full-fledged avatar gaming universe? They would be, I don't have a doubt about that... but seeing how they are spreading their competencies over 3-4 different projects right now. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Jadiss
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 12:45:00 -
[2349] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote: WoW IS dying. It was defiantly slain. But it wasn't a murder. It was suicide. WoW killed itself by introducing content that drastically conflicted with the established player base. They didn't listen to the criticism from their community, they would not be talked down off the ledge.
Pandas = Walking in station.
No. WoW is dying because they have dumbed down high-end gameplay and made it actually non rewarding + blizz failed to add new features to the game over the years.
Btw I hope that SC and ED will affect EVE, even hurt it to some degree... because that would cause competition and thats good for us players. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1992
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 13:01:00 -
[2350] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:A thought for discussion - is CCP capable of creating a full-fledged avatar gaming universe?
Some 100 dudes in Atlanta think that the answer is yes. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
355
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 13:45:00 -
[2351] - Quote
Let me clarify further - when CCP first released the avatar and the room, many people had computer issues handling the intensity of the graphics. These situations were not just with people with lower ended computers either - some claims of high end computers were struggling with the program too. It appeared (at the time) that CCP programmed the avatar aspect for a future high end technology that was not readily available at a fair price yet. But instead of them optimizing the program for current specs of computers, CCP decided to play the wait and see game (again).
Add that up to the release of the avatar aspect, CCP stated it would be an optional use. But once it went live, it was mandatory to use for all in station aspects. Based upon my own experiences, waiting up to two to three minutes for it to load every time I entered a station quickly lost its appeal. CCP did make it an optional aspect soon afterwards, but the (subtle) "damage" was done.
So back to what I originally intended - can CCP create an avatar gaming aspect that would not be playable to all, save those with the highest of high end computers? Could they curtail the details down to a level to allow a broader player base even though they did not have any intentions of doing so previously? |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
242
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 14:32:00 -
[2352] - Quote
I really don't know what was up with Incarna's resource hogging. CCP at least used to be known for making sure EVE could be played with fairly low end hardware, I remember playing EVE on computer with a 166Mhz Pentium MMX -CPU that had an integrated graphics card and 32Mb of RAM. This was back in 2005 or somewhere abouts, when far more powerful computers were available. CCP's insistence on low resource usage is one of the main reasons we don't have DX11 support yet, that, and that supposedly a whole lot of players even still run Windows XP. Mind you the community IIRC flipped their **** when CCP dropped the support for Windows 98 and ME.
Anyway, the lack of optimization for Incarna really surprised me because of that. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
843
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 14:42:00 -
[2353] - Quote
EVE was unique innovative game and few years ago WiS component was optional, but after other "internet spaceships" games will introduce similar sandbox functionality in persistent universe + avatar gameplay - then EVE will be perceived as crippled dinosaur which cost a lot more than its competitors while offering less content (which is often half-finished - like bounties system - or is extremely boring time sink - like scanning mini-game).
Being the most expensive game (~$200 per year per character) among competitors will require from EVE to be better than others in every single feature - including WiS. Otherwise "expensive dinosaur" stigma will drive old and (especially) new players away from EVE into hands of its competitors - like it happened with WoW which lost 1/3 of subscribers during 6 months when a lot of similar F2P/B2P titles appeared on the market.
WiS won't be optional when there will be competition among space sandboxes and considering "speed" of CCP's development it should have been reanimated yesterday. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3991
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 14:50:00 -
[2354] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:I really don't know what was up with Incarna's resource hogging. CCP at least used to be known for making sure EVE could be played with fairly low end hardware, I remember playing EVE on computer with a 166Mhz Pentium MMX -CPU that had an integrated graphics card and 32Mb of RAM. This was back in 2005 or somewhere abouts, when far more powerful computers were available. CCP's insistence on low resource usage is one of the main reasons we don't have DX11 support yet, that, and that supposedly a whole lot of players even still run Windows XP. Mind you the community IIRC flipped their **** when CCP dropped the support for Windows 98 and ME.
Anyway, the lack of optimization for Incarna really surprised me because of that. Thers was no lack of optimization.
Think abouf it. A badly coded program runs slow and doesn't really challenge the hardware, which is easily noteable by lack of noise and heat. The CQ though stressed hardware so much, it was literally burning out gfx cards.
That's no lack of optimization, they simply used up too much ressources in an efficient enough way to kill off (probably overclocked) hardware. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21364
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:01:00 -
[2355] - Quote
Jadiss wrote:Btw I hope that SC and ED will affect EVE, even hurt it to some degree... because that would cause competition and thats good for us players. Amen to that... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
969
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:11:00 -
[2356] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote: Think abouf it. A badly coded program runs slow and doesn't really challenge the hardware, which is easily noteable by lack of noise and heat. The CQ though stressed hardware so much, it was literally burning out gfx cards.
That's no lack of optimization, they simply used up too much ressources in an efficient enough way to kill off (probably overclocked) hardware.
I'd say that's a good thing, forces the people playing spectrum ZXs to come out of the electronic stone age and properly upgrade their systems once every couple of years as it should be. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
969
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:13:00 -
[2357] - Quote
As an aside, happened to be reading SC forums earlier and they call Eve a "toxic paradigm that attracts griefers" .. was pretty funny and kinda true. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1541
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:14:00 -
[2358] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Teinyhr wrote:I really don't know what was up with Incarna's resource hogging. CCP at least used to be known for making sure EVE could be played with fairly low end hardware, I remember playing EVE on computer with a 166Mhz Pentium MMX -CPU that had an integrated graphics card and 32Mb of RAM. This was back in 2005 or somewhere abouts, when far more powerful computers were available. CCP's insistence on low resource usage is one of the main reasons we don't have DX11 support yet, that, and that supposedly a whole lot of players even still run Windows XP. Mind you the community IIRC flipped their **** when CCP dropped the support for Windows 98 and ME.
Anyway, the lack of optimization for Incarna really surprised me because of that. Thers was no lack of optimization. Think abouf it. A badly coded program runs slow and doesn't really challenge the hardware, which is easily noteable by lack of noise and heat. The CQ though stressed hardware so much, it was literally burning out gfx cards. That's no lack of optimization, they simply used up too much ressources in an efficient enough way to kill off (probably overclocked) hardware.
The performance issue with Incarna went beyond simply burning out OC'd hardware, if even. At the time my system was right in the middle of hardware performance. Decent video card, decent processor. Certainly, it could not be characterized as meeting only the minimum system requirements of the game and yet CQ performance was horrendous. I've been building computers since, well, over 20 years, so I like to think I know at least how to spec out a system to my needs.
I recently rebuilt my system, new GPU included. Again, not to top of the line performance, I shoot for the most bang for the buck that I can while edging just over the line of mediocrity. I've found this to be a comfortable place. Given that we're now 2 years past Incarna's release one would think new generations of hardware would more than overcome performance requirements for Incarna. I was quite disappointed that it was still taxing my system, overly utilizing the GPU, fans complaining with their whirling as they attempted to keep my GPU cool. While I was in the +30fps arena with Incarna, it still suffered from laggy input and character control.
No, Incarna if optimized, is just poor code. If not optimized, is just poor coding. Either way you look at Incarna its bad. That CCP dropped it like a hot potato means there's nothing redeeming about it. Otherwise, customer complaints withstanding, CCP would not have abandoned it entirely. It was an investment. Or, just an alpha for WoD. Who knows. I'm sure half of what the community thinks they know isn't nearly what is reality within the iron curtain of CCP. Don't ban me, bro! |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
244
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:29:00 -
[2359] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote: Thers was no lack of optimization.
Think abouf it. A badly coded program runs slow and doesn't really challenge the hardware, which is easily noteable by lack of noise and heat. The CQ though stressed hardware so much, it was literally burning out gfx cards.
That's no lack of optimization, they simply used up too much ressources in an efficient enough way to kill off (probably overclocked) hardware.
Granted I don't know a whole lot about game graphics design, but there has gotta be some reason why CQ graphics make GPU's run hot even though the graphics are on the lower upper end of current game graphics. I run about the same heat on Witcher 2 on high with shadow's off and CQ is no Witcher 2. Again, I don't know how graphics engines manage resource usage, but one would think somekind of optimization to the graphics engine does the trick.
Also, now that I think about it, didn't Incarna for some reason set on other computers the presentation interval to "immediate" whereas it's normally interval 1 or 2? So far I have no idea what that setting is supposed to do but make graphics cards belt black smoke when set to immediate, even in normal space environment. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21365
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 15:32:00 -
[2360] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:I'd say that's a good thing, forces the people playing spectrum ZXs to come out of the electronic stone age and properly upgrade their systems once every couple of years as it should be. Especially funny, because there are actual EVE players there, agreeing to that notion... but yea, SC will not hurt EVE in the least... no sir. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1944
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 16:01:00 -
[2361] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote: The performance issue with Incarna went beyond simply burning out OC'd hardware, if even. At the time my system was right in the middle of hardware performance. Decent video card, decent processor. Certainly, it could not be characterized as meeting only the minimum system requirements of the game and yet CQ performance was horrendous. I've been building computers since, well, over 20 years, so I like to think I know at least how to spec out a system to my needs.
I recently rebuilt my system, new GPU included. Again, not to top of the line performance, I shoot for the most bang for the buck that I can while edging just over the line of mediocrity. I've found this to be a comfortable place. Given that we're now 2 years past Incarna's release one would think new generations of hardware would more than overcome performance requirements for Incarna. I was quite disappointed that it was still taxing my system, overly utilizing the GPU, fans complaining with their whirling as they attempted to keep my GPU cool. While I was in the +30fps arena with Incarna, it still suffered from laggy input and character control.
No, Incarna if optimized, is just poor code. If not optimized, is just poor coding. Either way you look at Incarna its bad. That CCP dropped it like a hot potato means there's nothing redeeming about it. Otherwise, customer complaints withstanding, CCP would not have abandoned it entirely. It was an investment. Or, just an alpha for WoD. Who knows. I'm sure half of what the community thinks they know isn't nearly what is reality within the iron curtain of CCP.
I was running CQ on a two year old -ú1600 XPS laptop when it was released and it HATED it. It jumped and froze and took forever to load. The performance issues with CQ were, I believe, an important part of the summer of rage. Although they cleared the performance up significantly with their fixes in Crucible, it was too little too late.
Since then I have only built my own systems, and my most recent computer runs three CQs simultaneously with 70 FPS. But then I have always 'erred' on the side of powerful or expensive tech. Mind you, a perfectly cheap GTX 460 in my last build ran two CQs at 50 FPS. Which is perfectly acceptable I think.
All the above said, I can't say it runs well just because it runs well for me and my recent hardware. A lot of people have had serious problems with it, which is probably because CCP have terrible testing procedures and rushed it horribly. CCP still need to put some effort into optimizing the CQ, because there are some obvious memory leaks associated with loading the CQ each time. Just open your task manager and watch the memory usage continuously rise (and never go back down again) each time you load CQ anew. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Gel Musana
LOL a Sticky Situation
21
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 16:02:00 -
[2362] - Quote
OK, this post is 1 year old now. Can you show this to us now? Or was this just smoke? Ideology -ás-h-i-t -álist https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Gel%20Musana
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
901
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 17:44:00 -
[2363] - Quote
Their is also a calculator on the game client, CCP should immediately upgrade it, we need a scientific calculator, and later on, we need some tool like Matlab in EvE, just to expand the universe. The Tears Must Flow |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21366
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 17:54:00 -
[2364] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Their is also a calculator on the game client, CCP should immediately upgrade it, we need a scientific calculator, and later on, we need some tool like Matlab in EvE, just to expand the universe. Shhh gankadin... you gotta be quiet when adults talk. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
232
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 18:37:00 -
[2365] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:No matter... pretty soon EVE will be the only (successful) spaceship game that is JUST about spaceships... hope all you intelligent players will be happy then. ...vision is scary. We are already happy and we're also excited about CCP's vision for the future of Eve. I feel bad for people who are too narrow-minded to see that vision even if it lacks dance emotes and bathrobes.
You're the one too narrow-minded to see the vision that CCP actually has, and has promoted. You're so afraid of change, you can't handle it. EVE has to grow and evolve. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
232
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 18:41:00 -
[2366] - Quote
WiS itself was in no way to blame for Incarna being a misfire. You had two specific problems:
1. Macro-transaction pricing was ridiculous. 2. The hangar was removed for no good reason.
Both problems have since been remedied. It's time to iterate. |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1590
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 18:42:00 -
[2367] - Quote
Why do 99% of these freakin anti-WiS posts have to have some sort of asinine, snide remark attached to it?...
Christ. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21368
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 19:09:00 -
[2368] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:You're the one too narrow-minded to see the vision that CCP actually has, and has promoted. You're so afraid of change, you can't handle it. EVE has to grow and evolve. Calling people that actually want the game to expand and grow, narrow minded is... interesting, to say the least. ...but yea, the fear of change in this community is really all too evident...
...then again, it fits the personality of the core player base, as does the inability to have objective discussions. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
ian papabearr
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 19:30:00 -
[2369] - Quote
walter white dies in the end of breaking bad |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
693
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 19:32:00 -
[2370] - Quote
Eve still a prototype... That's a new one.. I guess after over 10 years Beta is overused. |
|
Taiwanistan
322
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 19:36:00 -
[2371] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:Why do 99% of these freakin anti-WiS posts have to have some sort of asinine, snide remark attached to it?...
Christ. what's more asinine than a bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other in a room? TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
|
Sir Jack Falstaff
Thirtyplus Spaceship Samurai
54
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 20:12:00 -
[2372] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote:Why do 99% of these freakin anti-WiS posts have to have some sort of asinine, snide remark attached to it?...
Christ. what's more asinine than a bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other in a room? Dude, we're all playing a game in which we pretend to be starship pilots flying around through space and shooting each other with our pew pew laser guns. Take a good look at yourself. You're already playing dress-up. Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21406
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 20:23:00 -
[2373] - Quote
Sir Jack Falstaff wrote:Dude, we're all playing a game in which we pretend to be starship pilots flying around through space and shooting each other with our pew pew laser guns. Take a good look at yourself. You're already playing dress-up. Not quite... atleast not in "their" heads... the game could be about my little ponies with laser guns for all they care, as long as they can pawn others and show off their incredible skillz! "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
329
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 20:24:00 -
[2374] - Quote
Gel Musana wrote:OK, this post is 1 year old now. Can you show this to us now? Or was this just smoke?
Team Avatar doesn't even exist anymore. CCP has wisely decided to honor their promise to focus on real Eve content.
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1996
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 20:30:00 -
[2375] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Crasniya wrote:You're the one too narrow-minded to see the vision that CCP actually has, and has promoted. You're so afraid of change, you can't handle it. EVE has to grow and evolve. Calling people that actually want the game to expand and grow, narrow minded is... interesting, to say the least. ...but yea, the fear of change in this community is really all too evident... ...then again, it fits the personality of the core player base, as does the inability to have objective discussions.
It is quite interesting how they claim to be thrilled about getting more of the same (go there, conquer it, lose it, conquer it again, rinse and repeat) and yet fail to understand or respect what other players ask from CCP.
Rather than do something daring and new, CCP just aims to replay the "success" of the existing content. Who could be thrilled by more of the same as the game loses the ability to draw new blood? EVE-lovers or EVE-fanatics?
It's incredibly stupid. Time ago, I pictured hisec like a entry hall with revolving doors, where people got in, walked around for a while and eventually went away without ever finding a way to the depths of the building, because that requries luck and a very niche mindset.
Now, instead of making the hall better and interesting so new players stay in game because of it, CCP has chosen to build an even deeper end to the building, some nullsec-beyond-nullsec which will be used by even less players than nullsec itself... and simultaneously, CCP plans to wreck the hall.
When CCP Seagull was appointed as Senior Producer under CCP Unifex's wing, I asked her publicly to not leave behind the "lurkers". But now the "Hallelujah plan" is all about "enablers" and "instigators", and we the humble, silent, neglected lurkers have been left behind. Wether this is a smart move or the second point in which historians will look back at the demise of EVE and say "that was the second fatal blow", time will tell. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
329
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 20:34:00 -
[2376] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:It is quite interesting how they claim to be thrilled about getting more of the same (go there, conquer it, lose it, conquer it again, rinse and repeat) and yet fail to understand or respect what other players ask from CCP.
The game has evolved and changed a lot since Incarna. You just don't care because the change didn't include more outfits for your space Barbie.
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21410
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 21:03:00 -
[2377] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:When CCP Seagull was appointed as Senior Producer under CCP Unifex's wing, I asked her publicly to not leave behind the "lurkers". But now the "Hallelujah plan" is all about "enablers" and "instigators", and we the humble, silent, neglected lurkers have been left behind. Wether this is a smart move or the second point in which historians will look back at the demise of EVE and say "that was the second fatal blow", time will tell.
That sums it up pretty nicely... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Cypherdog
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 21:40:00 -
[2378] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Probably because it's difficult to respect people who want to ruin a perfectly fine spaceship game with wizard robes and dance emotes.
Geez, stop already the WoW inuendos. If EVE developed avatar gameplay, it would be mature. AS mature and dark as GTA V gameplay. Noone is saying anything about Wizards. Didn't you watch the Incarna development videos? NO you didn't. BUt you might have have a point, because CCP have proven that they're only good for designing a 3rd person spaceship game and Game Trailers. They have no experience whatsoever in avatar gameplay, Vampire games and very little -if negative- in First Person Shooters. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
333
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:23:00 -
[2379] - Quote
Cypherdog wrote:Didn't you watch the Incarna development videos?
Compare what was in those videos to what was actually released.
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1947
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:26:00 -
[2380] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Cypherdog wrote:Didn't you watch the Incarna development videos? Compare what was in those videos to what was actually released.
Exactly, dumb ass. We never got any of that. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
902
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:43:00 -
[2381] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Cypherdog wrote:Didn't you watch the Incarna development videos? Compare what was in those videos to what was actually released. Exactly, dumb ass. We never got any of that.
The only dumb asses in this thread are the avatar pedo freaks like you. We don't want any of that **** in EvE Online. Deal with it. The Tears Must Flow |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
336
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 22:50:00 -
[2382] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Cypherdog wrote:Didn't you watch the Incarna development videos? Compare what was in those videos to what was actually released. Exactly, dumb ass. We never got any of that.
So we had two years of wasted development time and we got a room with a couch and a microtransaction store and you want them to waste even *more* time on it? I just want to be clear that that is really what you are advocating for.
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21419
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:00:00 -
[2383] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:The only dumb asses in this thread are the avatar pedo freaks like you. We don't want any of that **** in EvE Online. Deal with it. Yea, well, then... bye? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
705
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:06:00 -
[2384] - Quote
Personally I hope at some point CCP does go back to creating solid content for WiS and fulfill EVE's role as a full sci-fi simulation. However it is reasonable to assume that WiS will not be worked on in great detail until some of the issues that have been sitting on the backlog have been dealt with.
It should also be noted that arguing that X group that believes X about WiS is correct as CCP has never released any data on the player interest in the subject for quite some time. This goes for those arguing both for and against WiS, devolving the discussion into personal attacks and jibes does nothing to help either side.
In conclusion I'm looking forward to see what the suture of EVE will hold regardless of CCP's decisions relating to the development of WiS. wumbo |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
336
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:22:00 -
[2385] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:It should also be noted that arguing that X group that believes X about WiS is correct as CCP has never released any data on the player interest in the subject for quite some time. This goes for those arguing both for and against WiS, devolving the discussion into personal attacks and jibes does nothing to help either side.
Subscribers have gone up every quarter since the summer of rage (since CCP put WiS nonsense on the back burner) and that is the only data that is needed.
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
152
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:47:00 -
[2386] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Subscribers have gone up every quarter since the summer of rage (since CCP put WiS nonsense on the back burner) and that is the only data that is needed.
Non sense. I unsubbed after WiS development stop. So did many people. Matter of fact, avatar gameplay was what attracted me to the game in the first place (check my character's creation date). The fact that EVE has gained some subs is more related to the number of alt accounts created by established players than by newcomer accounts. Plus, the number of active accounts does not tell directly how many of them are actually paying a subscription and not using PLEX bought by someone else.Take a look at the PLEX isk value inflation in the last 2 years. Practically doubled from 300m to 600m isk. Need I write a conclusion or are you able to take it for yourself? Probably not. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21428
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:49:00 -
[2387] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Probably not. Scratch the "probably". "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
336
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:11:00 -
[2388] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Non sense. I unsubbed after WiS development stop. So did many people.
Not enough to make a difference. During the summer of rage so many people canceled that CCP flew the entire CSM to Iceland for an emergency summit to try and stem the flow of people leaving the game. After CCP apologized and made a commitment to refocus on real Eve content subs started going up again.
The fact that you canceled your subscription and it didn't make CCP change course means not enough people agree with you. Apparently the number of people who can't live without space Barbie is less than the usual monthly subscription churn numbers. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
152
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:17:00 -
[2389] - Quote
Rhes wrote: The fact that you canceled your subscription and it didn't make CCP change course means not enough people agree with you.
Nope. It just means that those people either don't unsub or do it quietly without throwing tantrums at CCP and shooting pixel statues |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
336
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:26:00 -
[2390] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: The fact that you canceled your subscription and it didn't make CCP change course means not enough people agree with you.
Nope. It just means that those people either don't unsub or do it quietly without throwing tantrums at CCP and shooting pixel statues
Either way there still aren't enough to make CCP change the course of the game again. If subscriptions weren't going up every quarter you'd have an argument but they are so you don't.
|
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
152
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:40:00 -
[2391] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Either way there still aren't enough to make CCP change the course of the game again. If subscriptions weren't going up every quarter you'd have an argument but they are so you don't.
Make CCP change the couse of the game??? What are we now? Dellusional fanbois who think they own the game and force CCP to fire a whole dev team so they stop whining? Nope, we're all adults here.
Personally couldn't care less about the course of the game. If the developers give me what I want, I'll pay for it. If they don't well, no dough from me. Simple as that. You think I didn't know EVE before 2011? Seen it around since it came out in 2003, the "meh" factor was big when compared to other subcription based sci-fi mmorpg games like Anarchy Online or Star Wars Galaxies, and will be even bigger when compared to Star Citizen. Incarna (if delivered properly, which wasn't what happened in 2011) is the best thing could happen to this game to make it gain newcomers who like myself were never attracted enough to pay a subscription on a tactical spaceship & economic warfare simulator lacking avatar gameplay. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3712
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:55:00 -
[2392] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:When CCP Seagull was appointed as Senior Producer under CCP Unifex's wing, I asked her publicly to not leave behind the "lurkers". But now the "Hallelujah plan" is all about "enablers" and "instigators", and we the humble, silent, neglected lurkers have been left behind. Wether this is a smart move or the second point in which historians will look back at the demise of EVE and say "that was the second fatal blow", time will tell. That sums it up pretty nicely...
Tinfoil much?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
772
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 01:05:00 -
[2393] - Quote
It's interesting when I post pics of Incarna (and EVE in general) on facebook and compare them to the cartoonish crap from other MMOs. EVE looks amazing.
It's a real shame that they have the engine for avatar game play already in place, but are refusing to use it.
Maybe we should get CCP to release the art assets from the existing CQs and get players to design a new space using them. Could be a fun competition. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
152
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 01:14:00 -
[2394] - Quote
CCPeen got pumped too much and exploded. Old avatars' style was better suited to the game's setting imo. I think they woulda made a better job to keep them and create an avatar gameplay engine based on that older graphic technology. Carbon was too hi-tech. They launched it half-baked and f*cked up. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
336
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 02:11:00 -
[2395] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: Either way there still aren't enough to make CCP change the course of the game again. If subscriptions weren't going up every quarter you'd have an argument but they are so you don't.
Make CCP change the couse of the game??? What are we now? Dellusional fanbois who think they own the game and force CCP to fire a whole dev team so they stop whining? Nope, we're all adults here
Yes, we changed the course of the game when thousands of people canceled their subscriptions after Incarna was released. You guys keep bleating about the "total sci-fi emulator" that CCP was preparing in the years leading up to WiS being released...what do you think made them change direction? |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
336
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 02:13:00 -
[2396] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It's interesting when I post pics of Incarna (and EVE in general) on facebook and compare them to the cartoonish crap from other MMOs. EVE looks amazing.
It's a real shame that they have the engine for avatar game play already in place, but are refusing to use it.
Maybe we should get CCP to release the art assets from the existing CQs and get players to design a new space using them. Could be a fun competition.
They don't have the engine for avatar gameplay already in place. The engine developed for Incarna can't even support more than one person in a room.
|
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
238
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 02:15:00 -
[2397] - Quote
Rhes wrote:They don't have the engine for avatar gameplay already in place. The engine developed for Incarna can't even support more than one person in a room.
You have no evidence for this. The fact they haven't done it is not proof they can't.
Rhes wrote:Subscribers have gone up every quarter since the summer of rage (since CCP put WiS nonsense on the back burner) and that is the only data that is needed.
Funny thing: Look where Second Life is on there. And that's with like... no "meaningful gameplay" whatsoever. And every game on the chart with over a million subs... has at least something avatar gameplay related. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
336
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 02:16:00 -
[2398] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Funny thing: Look where Second Life is on there. And that's with like... no "meaningful gameplay" whatsoever. And every game on the chart with over a million subs... has at least something avatar gameplay related.
You mean games that were designed from the ground up as avatar-based games?
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
152
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 03:10:00 -
[2399] - Quote
Rhes wrote: what do you think made them change direction?
The fear of losing subscribers which in my opinion was overrated. The possible gains from keeping the Carbon team working on avatar gameplay would have been reaped and EVE would probably be at a better position right now. But as we discussed before, the cause for EVE's stagnation was not only the firing of the Carbon team, but also Dusts and Valkyries and the resources put on them instead of EVE. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
774
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 04:41:00 -
[2400] - Quote
If CCP are unable to create an engine that is unable to render more than one player in a room then they should close now. Every other game can manage it, except CCP apparently.
Guess we have more faith than the trolls in CCPs ability. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Luc Chastot
Daktaklakpak.
533
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 05:07:00 -
[2401] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Rhes wrote:They don't have the engine for avatar gameplay already in place. The engine developed for Incarna can't even support more than one person in a room.
You have no evidence for this. The fact they haven't done it is not proof they can't. You've been playing for longer than I, so you should know Rhes is, in fact, correct. When they separated the dev teams behind Incarna and WoD, Incarna development stagnated so WoD could use a wholly different tech that was not compatible with EVE. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Lateris
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 05:25:00 -
[2402] - Quote
We have all our answers and solutions in the lore. /end .:=[ObscuriLateris.com--áMining Corp]=:. .:=[ObscuriSoft.com- Soft Development]=:. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2003
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 06:54:00 -
[2403] - Quote
F-funny Facts (in USD):
CCP game revenue 2010: 57,428,530 CCP game revenue 2011: 63,323,357 CCP game revenue 2012: 64,436,996
CCP marketing expense 2010: (9,769,965) CCP marketing expense 2011: (9,912,335) CCP marketing expense 2012: (12,567,302)
CCP research and development expense 2010: (11,127,383) CCP research and development expense 2011: (12,972,482) CCP research and development expense 2012: (16,513,666)
CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2010: 5,482,264 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2011: 8,817,262 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2012: 4,597,556
2013 january-june trends vs 2012 january-june:
Game revenue UP by 4.3 milion USD Marketing expense UP by 1.9 million USD Research and development UP by 4.4 million USD
I absolutely love how in 2010-2011, the time when Incarna was coming, game revenue increased by 5.9 million USD, more than 10% rise. How it barely has stabilized after Incarna was trashed, despite marketing has swallowed almost 3 million dollars more in 2012 alone (and marketing expense keeps skyrocketing in 2013).
And above all, the thing I totally and completely love, it's development expense.
+1 million during Incarnageddon (2011) +3 million after Incarnageddon (2012) +4.5 million in the first six months of this year alone
Is there a game near you that looks like it's got 8.5 million dollars spent in additional development expense in the last 3 years?
PS: sources!
http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47002/ccp%202012%20consolidated%20financial%20statements.pdf
http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47381/ccp%20financial%20statements%20june%2030%202013.pdf The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1950
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 07:20:00 -
[2404] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Cypherdog wrote:Didn't you watch the Incarna development videos? Compare what was in those videos to what was actually released. Exactly, dumb ass. We never got any of that. So we had two years of wasted development time and we got a room with a couch and a microtransaction store and you want them to waste even *more* time on it? I just want to be clear that that is really what you are advocating for.
My God it's worse than I thought.
Two years... on CARBON. The thing that gave us V3, TiDi, and all the big changes since such as the new FW and Wardec systems. That's what they spend two years on. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
974
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:41:00 -
[2405] - Quote
Rhes wrote:raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: Either way there still aren't enough to make CCP change the course of the game again. If subscriptions weren't going up every quarter you'd have an argument but they are so you don't.
Make CCP change the couse of the game??? What are we now? Dellusional fanbois who think they own the game and force CCP to fire a whole dev team so they stop whining? Nope, we're all adults here Yes, we changed the course of the game when thousands of people canceled their subscriptions after Incarna was released. You guys keep bleating about the "total sci-fi emulator" that CCP was preparing in the years leading up to WiS being released...what do you think made them change direction?
20,000 sheep following a drunk megalomaniac made CCP change direction for the worse ... gee you must be proud of yourselves. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
246
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:54:00 -
[2406] - Quote
Guys. Click on the character name, select "Hide posts." Easier for everyone's sanity. |
Jadiss
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 09:00:00 -
[2407] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Cypherdog wrote:Didn't you watch the Incarna development videos? Compare what was in those videos to what was actually released. Exactly, dumb ass. We never got any of that. So we had two years of wasted development time and we got a room with a couch and a microtransaction store and you want them to waste even *more* time on it? I just want to be clear that that is really what you are advocating for. My God it's worse than I thought. Two years... on CARBON. The thing that gave us V3, TiDi, and all the big changes since such as the new FW and Wardec systems. That's what they spend two years on.
Yeah 2 years of percious dev time gone for nothing...
fanfest 2011
Oh wait... there seems to be a bit more than just "room with a couch and a microtransaction"...
|
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1222
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 09:43:00 -
[2408] - Quote
I've said it somewhere before, but I don't know if I've said it in this thread...
Why not kill two birds with one stone and link WiS and Valkyrie to make Flying In Stations?
You go through your door and enter a ship. The ship gets to fly around and do missions or PvP in stations.
I like what I've seen for Valkyrie but... we already have flying in space in Eve. Why not make it something different? |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
848
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 10:11:00 -
[2409] - Quote
> CCP research and development expense 2012: (16,513,666)
If these numbers are correct then CCP has extremely inefficient dev team: 16 millions is 80% of StarCitizen's budget ($21mil) and this sum in development should bring a bit more than just a couple mini-games and handful of new modules per year. Roberts is able to create whole new game with comparable sum - not to mention total cost of development of Dark Age of Camelot was just $2.5mil.
P.S. Thread is heated up and got like 10+ pages during a week. I see interest to WiS raised - or discontent with CCP and EVE updates. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
782
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 10:28:00 -
[2410] - Quote
I went ahead and unsubscribed, my account will expire in December. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21436
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 10:35:00 -
[2411] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I went ahead and unsubscribed, my account will expire in December. I'll follow next March, wenn Elite Dangeous hits... I doubt that CCP will do anything to change my mind until then. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1952
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:11:00 -
[2412] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I went ahead and unsubscribed, my account will expire in December.
I am still waiting for more details of the upcoming expansion before I unsub. As long as what we have seen so far is less than half of the total, I will hang around. But I have a sneaking suspicion that what we have seen is most of what we will get. If that's the case then -2 accounts.
Lipbite wrote: P.S. Thread is heated up and got like 10+ pages during a week. Either interest to WiS raised - or discontent with CCP and EVE updates.
I'm pretty sure, most of the new posts are from Rhes' trolling. That said, I have seen a lot of new faces in this thread recently. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
345
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:25:00 -
[2413] - Quote
Quote:I absolutely love how in 2010-2011, the time when Incarna was coming, game revenue increased by 5.9 million USD My moneys!
Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:28:00 -
[2414] - Quote
..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go? |
RAW23
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:37:00 -
[2415] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:
The fear of losing subscribers which in my opinion was overrated.
It wasn't a fear. They simply did lose many subscribers, as has been pretty well documented, and they reacted to the fact that their business was going to have very great trouble operating on a model that assumed annual growth when, in fact, it was moving in the opposite direction. They righted the ship and are now pretty much back to where they were before they started shedding customers (maybe even a little ahead now). Had they not taken the drastic action that they did they would have been in HUGE financial trouble as they would have lost many more players.
There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
976
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:38:00 -
[2416] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go?
Obvious troll. Star Citizen is now the single most successful kickstarter EVER. In an interview Chris Roberts stated that he had corporate sponsors ready to provide him with $10 million if the kickstarter campaign drew in $2 to $3 m. When they hit $10m just from the public he told the corporate sponsors they were not needed anymore. He turned down $10m (that would have come with corporate overview of his project) because the fans keep giving and you say things are not looking good? Ye keep on dreaming about your fascination with wizards. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1952
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:42:00 -
[2417] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:raven666wings wrote:
The fear of losing subscribers which in my opinion was overrated.
It wasn't a fear. They simply did lose many subscribers, as has been pretty well documented, and they reacted to the fact that their business was going to have very great trouble operating on a model that assumed annual growth when, in fact, it was moving in the opposite direction. They righted the ship and are now pretty much back to where they were before they started shedding customers (maybe even a little ahead now). Had they not taken the drastic action that they did they would have been in HUGE financial trouble as they would have lost many more players.
And although the above is true, I think the point is that the lost subs were nothing to do with CCP's vision of WiS. They lost subs because of a myriad of other mistakes they made running up to and around the time of release of Incarna. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
RAW23
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:43:00 -
[2418] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:
20,000 sheep following a drunk megalomaniac made CCP change direction for the worse ... gee you must be proud of yourselves.
You show a remarkable lack of knowledge of the sequence of events for someone who wants to hold forth on the topic. Assuming that the drunk megalomaniac is Mittens, he was very very much a follower and not a leader in the case of Incarna. He certainly had nothing to do with organising the popular outcry and only became involved much later, after CCP called the CSM to Iceland to help them deal with the issue. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
RAW23
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:45:00 -
[2419] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:[quote=RAW23]
And although the above is true, I think the point is that the lost subs were nothing to do with CCP's vision of WiS. They lost subs because of a myriad of other mistakes they made running up to and around the time of release of Incarna.
I don't think anyone really objected to CCP's publicly trailed vision of WiS. What they objected to was the immense disconnect between the vision and the reality of its implementation after it had sucked vast quantities of resources away from core gameplay. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
976
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:58:00 -
[2420] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:
20,000 sheep following a drunk megalomaniac made CCP change direction for the worse ... gee you must be proud of yourselves.
You show a remarkable lack of knowledge of the sequence of events for someone who wants to hold forth on the topic. Assuming that the drunk megalomaniac is Mittens, he was very very much a follower and not a leader in the case of Incarna. He certainly had nothing to do with organising the popular outcry and only became involved much later, after CCP called the CSM to Iceland to help them deal with the issue.
Tbh I don't care what his involvement was or wasn't but all I hear is the goonsheep bleating in this thread This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1952
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 13:01:00 -
[2421] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:Arduemont wrote:
And although the above is true, I think the point is that the lost subs were nothing to do with CCP's vision of WiS. They lost subs because of a myriad of other mistakes they made running up to and around the time of release of Incarna.
I don't think anyone really objected to CCP's publicly trailed vision of WiS. What they objected to was the immense disconnect between the vision and the reality of its implementation after it had sucked vast quantities of resources away from core gameplay.
Well, the reality was that it was never implemented at all. Unless you want to argue that our CQ is anything more than a fancy screen saver.
The expansion Incarna was marketed as being about Walking in Stations, but the reality of it was that CCP rolled out CARBON in Incarna. That's what Incarna was really about. And no one can argue that Carbon was a waste of time, especially as it is the basis for most of the changes we have seen since. V3, TiDi, all the new UIs, the new Crimewatch, and everything else more or less.
What CCP did wrong, was expectation management. If they had said, "Look, we're rolling out the Carbon engine in the next expansion. You wont see most of the benefit until our next expansion, but here is a single room as a teaser of what is to come", then people would have known and understood. Instead, they hyped the **** out of something that probably took up a tiny part of their development time from that expansion, and then were surprised that everyone was disappointed.
The point is that Incarna was no reflection on what is possible for WiS, and shouldn't be used as an argument against it's development.
J3ssica Alba wrote:Tbh I don't care what his involvement was or wasn't but all I hear is the goonsheep bleating in this thread
/me Facepalm. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
RAW23
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 13:21:00 -
[2422] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:[quote=RAW23]
The point is that Incarna was no reflection on what is possible for WiS, and shouldn't be used as an argument against it's development.
I certainly agree with this - Incarna didn't represent what was possible and I'm hopeful that they won't **** it up to such a grand extent again. However, after four (?) years of development, what it did represent was a pathetic actualisation of the vision. Now, the idea that the next expansion would have been the big one and CCP just needed to manage expectations better is attractive but I'm not convinced that it stands up to scrutiny from a historical perspective. CCP themselves have admitted that they had no actual sustainable vision for the content of WiS. It's not the case that great stuff was just six months away. On the contrary, it sounds like little more than a few extra skins for CQ were around the corner and perhaps a couple of pretty crappy facebook style board-games. They flat out stated that there wasn't actually any cool stuff on the near horizon, probably because they had become caught up in the avatar ownership idea, thinking that delivering 'thousand dollar jeans' to EvE's geeky fanbase was an end in itself.
As far as I can see, the current project is trying to do what should have been done in the first place. Create content first.
There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
850
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 13:39:00 -
[2423] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go?
1) almost all "sandboxy" space games during last decade gathered ~85% "very interesting" ratings (EVE has 84%) including X-series, Space Rangers, people still play Freelancer (by Chris Roberts / SC author) 10 years after its release - it's impossible to create boring space sandbox game;
2) there will be 4 more sandbox releases - Elite Dangerous, Repopulation, Everquest Next, Camelot Unchained - 3 of them are being created by very reputable devs, so this is the last year when EVE doesn't have any interesting sandbox competitors and in a year there won't be any problems to find alternative sandbox game for any taste and all of them will have avatar gameplay. Unlike EVE. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
345
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:00:00 -
[2424] - Quote
Incarnagate, somerblinkgate, tosgate, or maybe even rubicongate?
You people spend too much time on forums. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2010
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:00:00 -
[2425] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go? 1) almost all "sandboxy" space games during last decade gathered ~85% "very interesting" ratings (EVE has 84%) including X-series, Space Rangers, people still play Freelancer (by Chris Roberts / SC author) 10 years after its release - it's impossible to create boring space sandbox game; 2) there will be 4 more sandbox releases - Elite Dangerous, Repopulation, Everquest Next, Camelot Unchained - 3 of them are being created by very reputable devs, so this is the last year when EVE doesn't have any interesting sandbox competitors and in a year there won't be any problems to find alternative sandbox game for any taste and all of them will have avatar gameplay. Unlike EVE.
Heh, but EVE will let you conquer space, hold it, exploit it, fight massive battles over it and eventually lose it to [enter bigger alliance], unlike... errr.. exactly as it has been doing for 10 years!
And in case that such prospect is not your piece of cake, or you just fancy being a human doing human stuff in a SF universe rather than be an anonymous ship asploding other anonymous ships, well, CCP also haves a plan for you: give your money to someone else! As that's exactly what they've been doing with your EVE monies for some years now... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21436
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:01:00 -
[2426] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash. Oh 'come on, atleast be an educated troll, hm?
First: The budget it totally irrelevant... EVE's development only took 2.6 mil.
Second: SC has no subscription fees, only a chash shop, that offers nothing that cannot be bought with ingame cradits. What the game already has, however, are 260k backers that pledged an average of 60$... and all those will be players. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
785
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:01:00 -
[2427] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Incarnagate, somerblinkgate, tosgate, or maybe even rubicongate? You people spend too much time on forums.
Shutyourgate? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1267
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:25:00 -
[2428] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And in case that such prospect is not your piece of cake, or you just fancy being a human being doing human stuff in a SF universe rather than be an anonymous ship asploding other anonymous ships, well, CCP also haves a plan for you: give your money to someone else!
That's what we've been telling you for years now.
This game isn't for you, and it never will be. Other games aren't for me, and never will be, but I don't hang around the forums suggesting they should completely alter the fundamentals of the game.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1953
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:26:00 -
[2429] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:Arduemont wrote:[quote=RAW23]
The point is that Incarna was no reflection on what is possible for WiS, and shouldn't be used as an argument against it's development.
I certainly agree with this - Incarna didn't represent what was possible and I'm hopeful that they won't **** it up to such a grand extent again. However, after four (?) years of development, what it did represent was a pathetic actualisation of the vision. Now, the idea that the next expansion would have been the big one and CCP just needed to manage expectations better is attractive but I'm not convinced that it stands up to scrutiny from a historical perspective. CCP themselves have admitted that they had no actual sustainable vision for the content of WiS. It's not the case that great stuff was just six months away. On the contrary, it sounds like little more than a few extra skins for CQ were around the corner and perhaps a couple of pretty crappy facebook style board-games. They flat out stated that there wasn't actually any cool stuff on the near horizon, probably because they had become caught up in the avatar ownership idea, thinking that delivering 'thousand dollar jeans' to EvE's geeky fanbase was an end in itself. As far as I can see, the current project is trying to do what should have been done in the first place. Create content first.
Seems like you and I are more or less on the same page. Except I think CCP are perfectly capable of making this prototype a reality, but they won't because they are now looking after three other projects that are being funded by our subs. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
248
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:41:00 -
[2430] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote: This game isn't for you, and it never will be. Other games aren't for me, and never will be, but I don't hang around the forums suggesting they should completely alter the fundamentals of the game.
Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way? Provided it is entirely optional to engage in, and I seriously doubt that after Incarna it would be ever forced on people again. |
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1267
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:54:00 -
[2431] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Varius Xeral wrote: This game isn't for you, and it never will be. Other games aren't for me, and never will be, but I don't hang around the forums suggesting they should completely alter the fundamentals of the game.
Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way? Provided it is entirely optional to engage in, and I seriously doubt that after Incarna it would be ever forced on people again.
I was actually referring to the quotee in particular.
I've made my, what I would consider "centrist", views on WiS known multiple times. I have no problem with anything that CCP decides to add to their game, given that it is among the best available uses of limited resources.
My only "problem" actually lies with the ridiculous arguments of rabid WiS proponents, and by "problem" I mean the reason I enjoy coming to this thread and mocking people. However, I have responded seriously to the few intelligent and compelling arguments that do occasionally crop up here, as I do think WiS is an important and compelling issue. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Lilliana Stelles
911
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:57:00 -
[2432] - Quote
Does news ever occur in this thread anymore or is it just ongoing circular arguments? Not a forum alt.-á |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3718
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 15:01:00 -
[2433] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:Does news ever occur in this thread anymore or is it just ongoing circular arguments?
Step up and claim your prize.
It is however devolving into a SC > EVE circle-jerk thread.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1267
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 15:03:00 -
[2434] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:Does news ever occur in this thread anymore or is it just ongoing circular arguments?
No, because there is no WiS news, because it is dead for the foreseeable future.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1956
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 15:43:00 -
[2435] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:Does news ever occur in this thread anymore or is it just ongoing circular arguments?
There were some Dev posts about 20 pages back that are pretty recent. Unfortunately, they don't add anything of value except to say what they 'had' planned. Nothing on their plans to actually implement anything. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
345
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:04:00 -
[2436] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:Does news ever occur in this thread anymore or is it just ongoing circular arguments?
There is no news about WIS (because WIS in no longer in development) so its ongoiing circular arguments over and over again, time to get over it people. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1956
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:06:00 -
[2437] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Lilliana Stelles wrote:Does news ever occur in this thread anymore or is it just ongoing circular arguments? There is no news about WIS (because WIS in no more in development) so its ongoiing circular arguments over and over again, time to get over it people.
To be fair the argument's aren't circular. They all more or less have full and natural conclusions. The people doing the arguing are circular, if you catch my drift. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
345
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:16:00 -
[2438] - Quote
Arguments, people, this thread bite its tail long ago. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
160
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:46:00 -
[2439] - Quote
Post containing sexual accusations has been removed.
Forum rule 6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
342
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 17:50:00 -
[2440] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way
Resources spent on more WiS nonsense are resources that aren't spent on real Eve content.
|
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Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1960
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 17:57:00 -
[2441] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Teinyhr wrote:Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way Resources spent on more WiS nonsense are resources that aren't spent on real Eve content.
Perhaps you should whine more about Dust, Valkyrie and World of Darkness in that case. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
356
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:00:00 -
[2442] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Teinyhr wrote:Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way Resources spent on more WiS nonsense are resources that aren't spent on real Eve content. Based on how much (new) content has been presented in these last few ~expansions~, it seems not too many resources are being spent on "real Eve content" either... |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
241
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:09:00 -
[2443] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Rhes wrote:Teinyhr wrote:Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way Resources spent on more WiS nonsense are resources that aren't spent on real Eve content. Based on how much (new) content has been presented in these last few ~expansions~, it seems not too many resources are being spent on "real Eve content" either...
Indeed. Two ships and a few anchorable structures does not an "expansion" make. That's a content patch. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:09:00 -
[2444] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Teinyhr wrote:Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way Resources spent on more WiS nonsense are resources that aren't spent on real Eve content. Perhaps you should whine more about Dust, Valkyrie and World of Darkness in that case.
Dust is a failure that probably won't be around much longer, WoD is vaporware and while I won't play Valkyrie at least it is spaceship related.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:10:00 -
[2445] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Indeed. Two ships and a few anchorable structures does not an "expansion" make. That's a content patch.
I like you conveniently leave out the amazing amount of effort put into rebalancing that has happened since Incarna. It's been nice seeing the focus put back into spaceships. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
902
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:12:00 -
[2446] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Rhes wrote:Teinyhr wrote:Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way Resources spent on more WiS nonsense are resources that aren't spent on real Eve content. Based on how much (new) content has been presented in these last few ~expansions~, it seems not too many resources are being spent on "real Eve content" either...
The last expansions were amayzing, the game is in it's best shape ever.
This is not a themepark mmo-rpg, in this game, players are the "content". The Tears Must Flow |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1272
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:16:00 -
[2447] - Quote
My guess is that making t1 ships viable again was the single biggest source of the post-incarna success, and that's almost solely due to the rebalancing efforts. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
159
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:32:00 -
[2448] - Quote
Rhes wrote: I like you conveniently leave out the amazing amount of effort put into rebalancing that has happened since Incarna. It's been nice seeing the focus put back into spaceships.
2-3 Devs renaming skill trees and balancing ships/messing around with variables is not an expansion, that's basic game maintenance that should be coming along with actual expansions. What is the rest of the people whose salaries you pay for doing? Developing other games that you don't get to play? Get real man. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
242
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:42:00 -
[2449] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Crasniya wrote:Indeed. Two ships and a few anchorable structures does not an "expansion" make. That's a content patch. I like you conveniently leave out the amazing amount of effort put into rebalancing that has happened since Incarna. It's been nice seeing the focus put back into spaceships.
Rebalancing is great. Odyssey 1.1 was a bigger patch than Rubicon 1.0 is. That's the thing. Balancing is patch-level content. It's great, it improves the game, and is PROBABLY largely the reason that EVE is doing well right now. But balancing has nothing to do with WiS, WiS is a completely different type of effort, and would not harm subscriptions, as long as CCP continued to rebalance and iterate spaceship gameplay. |
Sir Jack Falstaff
Thirtyplus Spaceship Samurai
59
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 18:59:00 -
[2450] - Quote
Kirith Kodachi has an excellent, well-balanced argument for revisiting Walking in Stations. Give Incarna a second chance. It has a good overview of what went wrong with Incarna, and how CCP overreacted to the backlash:
Quote:Incarna, that is to say walking and interacting in stations, is in of itself not a bad idea; indeed players were clamouring for it after Fanfest 2008. It was just CCP's poor planning and implementation that were bad.
It feels like CCP got their fingers so burnt by the players' ire that they have overreacted and virtually abandoned any Incarna development. I've thought about how to rescue Incarna and the NeX Store before, listing out a fake product backlog of features that could bring gameplay content and interaction into the current structure and got a lot of positive feedback. Players do want walking in stations, they do want customizable avatars, they will accept reasonable microtransactions for cosmetic enhancements, they just do not want it at the cost of all in-space development and feature iteration. Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 19:09:00 -
[2451] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:But balancing has nothing to do with WiS, WiS is a completely different type of effort, and would not harm subscriptions, as long as CCP continued to rebalance and iterate spaceship gameplay.
I don't know how I can make this concept any more simple. If they spend resources on WiS it means they are not spending those resources on real Eve content. Ship balancing is content when it means that hulls that nobody ever flies become viable options again. If you guys could stop obsessing over bathrobes and dance parties you'd see that Eve has been expanding and getting better since Incarna. |
Lateris
41
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 19:42:00 -
[2452] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go?
The beauty of SC is that you can host your own servers. You can mod your own version of the game and host it. Exactly like Freelancer...
As far as avatar content goes or even Dust 514 on the PC, its all vapor ware. I really do appreciate this gaming community over all and some of the most amazing concepts have occurred in this community. Good luck you lovely new eden pilots. I am off to build my own world. .:=[ObscuriLateris.com--áMining Corp]=:. .:=[ObscuriSoft.com- Soft Development]=:. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2016
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 19:55:00 -
[2453] - Quote
Sir Jack Falstaff wrote:Kirith Kodachi has an excellent, well-balanced argument for revisiting Walking in Stations. Give Incarna a second chance. It has a good overview of what went wrong with Incarna, and how CCP overreacted to the backlash: Quote:Incarna, that is to say walking and interacting in stations, is in of itself not a bad idea; indeed players were clamouring for it after Fanfest 2008. It was just CCP's poor planning and implementation that were bad.
It feels like CCP got their fingers so burnt by the players' ire that they have overreacted and virtually abandoned any Incarna development. I've thought about how to rescue Incarna and the NeX Store before, listing out a fake product backlog of features that could bring gameplay content and interaction into the current structure and got a lot of positive feedback. Players do want walking in stations, they do want customizable avatars, they will accept reasonable microtransactions for cosmetic enhancements, they just do not want it at the cost of all in-space development and feature iteration.
My only "but" would be reminding that Incarna was not just about Wis; it was the impelmentation of the Carbon frame on which everything since has been built.
Also, albeit Incarnageddon was a disaster, 2011 was CCP's best year in terms of increased revenue and comprehensive income.
We're talking about a company that spent half of 2011 struggling for its life. Which means that the boost in income and profits was from the road leading to Incarna.
Or, put in other terms:
Incursion + Incarna = +5.9 million USD in revenues, +3.5 million comprehensive income Crucible + Inferno = +1.1 million USD in revenues , +0.1 million comprehensive income (after accounting for increased development costs)
Looks like appealing to WiS-bashers isn't making much money to CCP, specially as their marketing expense keeps inflating and October 2013 becomes "operation money grab". The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
80
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 19:59:00 -
[2454] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go? 1) almost all "sandboxy" space games during last decade gathered ~85% "very interesting" ratings (EVE has 84%) including X-series, Space Rangers, people still play Freelancer (by Chris Roberts / SC author) 10 years after its release - it's impossible to create boring space sandbox game; 2) there will be 4 more sandbox releases - Elite Dangerous, Repopulation, Everquest Next, Camelot Unchained - 3 of them are being created by very reputable devs, so this is the last year when EVE doesn't have any interesting sandbox competitors and in a year there won't be any problems to find alternative sandbox game for any taste and all of them will have avatar gameplay. Unlike EVE.
And Pathfinder Online. Don't forget Pathfinder! They even have some old Eve devs I think. Looks like it will basically be Eve in a fantasy setting. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2016
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:02:00 -
[2455] - Quote
Lateris wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go? The beauty of SC is that you can host your own servers. You can mod your own version of the game and host it. Exactly like Freelancer...(...)
Private servers with custom mods and rulesets are SC's killer deal. If players need to *buy* something from RSI to keep using their private servers, Roberts it's going to make a trizillion dollars from ancillary sells...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3718
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:03:00 -
[2456] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:You goonsheep whined so much and threatened to unsub permanently upon Incarna release and got a team fired who was actually working on EVE content. Now are quiet and playing ball watching them waste money and resources on side games. Should have done it to Dust/WoD/Valkyrie dev teams not Carbon. Quit being hypocrites thatz bad fo yo health.
Speaking of hypocrisy, a lot more players than just some goons quit (not threatened to quit), enough that it caused CCP to reassess it's financial outlook and staffing levels. But please, do go on with your goonspiracies and chewing your tinfoil, goons only make-up approx 2-3% of players today, less back then. If the estimated loss of players was 10%, that's 4 times as many goons then there are now. To quote Jesse Pinkman: "There ain't that many smurfs in the world."
As has been explained to you and others several times, players threatening to quit are irrelevant, players who actually do quit, are the ones speaking in terms that CCP notices and acts upon. You want CCP to take notice of you, stop giving them money and plexing your account.
The man at the top even told you so: "we will watch what they do, not what they say...." The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
244
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:09:00 -
[2457] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Crasniya wrote:But balancing has nothing to do with WiS, WiS is a completely different type of effort, and would not harm subscriptions, as long as CCP continued to rebalance and iterate spaceship gameplay. I don't know how I can make this concept any more simple. If they spend resources on WiS it means they are not spending those resources on real Eve content. Ship balancing is content when it means that hulls that nobody ever flies become viable options again. If you guys could stop obsessing over bathrobes and dance parties you'd see that Eve has been expanding and getting better since Incarna.
The clear point you're missing, is that they obviously aren't spending those resources on "real EVE content", as Rubicon has no content. Odyssey had a nifty hacking mini-game, and that was it.
I support ship balancing. Ship balancing requires one guy. How many devs does CCP have? |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2018
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:11:00 -
[2458] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:raven666wings wrote:You goonsheep whined so much and threatened to unsub permanently upon Incarna release and got a team fired who was actually working on EVE content. Now are quiet and playing ball watching them waste money and resources on side games. Should have done it to Dust/WoD/Valkyrie dev teams not Carbon. Quit being hypocrites thatz bad fo yo health. Speaking of hypocrisy, a lot more players than just some goons quit (not threatened to quit), enough that it caused CCP to reassess it's financial outlook and staffing levels. But please, do go on with your goonspiracies and chewing your tinfoil, goons only make-up approx 2-3% of players today, less back then. If the estimated loss of players was 10%, that's 4 times as many goons then there are now. To quote Jesse Pinkman: " There ain't that many smurfs in the world." As has been explained to you and others several times, players threatening to quit are irrelevant, players who actually do quit, are the ones speaking in terms that CCP notices and acts upon. You want CCP to take notice of you, stop giving them money and plexing your account. The man at the top even told you so: "we will watch what they do, not what they say...."
Let me quote myself....
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:albeit Incarnageddon was a disaster, 2011 was CCP's best year in terms of increased revenue and comprehensive income.
PCU tells the same story, 2011 was a magnificent year right until Incarna. And then everything has been mediocre after it, despite the assumed truth that the following expansions have been of the best ever... just they barely are keeping up Incarna's numbers, and can't dream to boost income as Incursion+Incarna did. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
244
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:15:00 -
[2459] - Quote
We aren't asking for spaceships content to go away (as little as CCP is actually releasing for it). We're asking for like 10% Walking-in-Stations. Your patch notes should be like three pages of spaceships with a paragraph for avatars.
But as long as people like Rhes have a tantrum every time CCP does anything new, CCP is held back. I half wonder if DUST and Valkyrie are loved by CCP devs as chances to do unshackled development. EVE players cry if anything changes, so the devs have to go out and work on something altogether new, rather than improving EVE. Even spaceship content is now held back by players who are unwilling to embrace new and better concepts for the game. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3718
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:18:00 -
[2460] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Doc Fury wrote:raven666wings wrote:You goonsheep whined so much and threatened to unsub permanently upon Incarna release and got a team fired who was actually working on EVE content. Now are quiet and playing ball watching them waste money and resources on side games. Should have done it to Dust/WoD/Valkyrie dev teams not Carbon. Quit being hypocrites thatz bad fo yo health. Speaking of hypocrisy, a lot more players than just some goons quit (not threatened to quit), enough that it caused CCP to reassess it's financial outlook and staffing levels. But please, do go on with your goonspiracies and chewing your tinfoil, goons only make-up approx 2-3% of players today, less back then. If the estimated loss of players was 10%, that's 4 times as many goons then there are now. To quote Jesse Pinkman: " There ain't that many smurfs in the world." As has been explained to you and others several times, players threatening to quit are irrelevant, players who actually do quit, are the ones speaking in terms that CCP notices and acts upon. You want CCP to take notice of you, stop giving them money and plexing your account. The man at the top even told you so: "we will watch what they do, not what they say...." Let me quote myself.... Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:albeit Incarnageddon was a disaster, 2011 was CCP's best year in terms of increased revenue and comprehensive income. PCU tells the same story, 2011 was a magnificent year right until Incarna. And then everything has been mediocre after it, despite the assumed truth that the following expansions have been of the best ever... just they barely are keeping up Incarna's numbers, and can't dream to boost income as Incursion+Incarna did.
What does that have to do with "grrr goons" and my rebuttal to that nonsense?
Or are you just responding to posts with anything now? The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2018
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:30:00 -
[2461] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Doc Fury wrote:raven666wings wrote:You goonsheep whined so much and threatened to unsub permanently upon Incarna release and got a team fired who was actually working on EVE content. Now are quiet and playing ball watching them waste money and resources on side games. Should have done it to Dust/WoD/Valkyrie dev teams not Carbon. Quit being hypocrites thatz bad fo yo health. Speaking of hypocrisy, a lot more players than just some goons quit (not threatened to quit), enough that it caused CCP to reassess it's financial outlook and staffing levels. But please, do go on with your goonspiracies and chewing your tinfoil, goons only make-up approx 2-3% of players today, less back then. If the estimated loss of players was 10%, that's 4 times as many goons then there are now. To quote Jesse Pinkman: " There ain't that many smurfs in the world." As has been explained to you and others several times, players threatening to quit are irrelevant, players who actually do quit, are the ones speaking in terms that CCP notices and acts upon. You want CCP to take notice of you, stop giving them money and plexing your account. The man at the top even told you so: "we will watch what they do, not what they say...." Let me quote myself.... Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:albeit Incarnageddon was a disaster, 2011 was CCP's best year in terms of increased revenue and comprehensive income. PCU tells the same story, 2011 was a magnificent year right until Incarna. And then everything has been mediocre after it, despite the assumed truth that the following expansions have been of the best ever... just they barely are keeping up Incarna's numbers, and can't dream to boost income as Incursion+Incarna did. What does that have to do with "grrr goons" and my rebuttal to that nonsense? Or are you just responding to posts with anything now?
The fact that 2011 was CCP's best year casts a different light on the whole post-Incarna issue. And the poor performance of everything since also casts a different light on the benefits of preaching to the choir in terms of game development.
There is no need that we quit personally when the people who should be enthusiastic (and often, they are) about CCP's way of developing EVE since 2011, actually are not doing CCP any financial favor.
WE don't give them our money (buy PLEXes with amassed ISK, unsub, or take comeback offers with juicy discounts), and YOU aren't doing it neither... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21441
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:37:00 -
[2462] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:What does that have to do with "grrr goons" and my rebuttal to that nonsense? Goons? Goons are of no consequence... but the name has become quite a synonym for a very vocal, very conservative group of players that are, out of principle against any changes to "their EVE"... not because they actually care about the game, mind you, but because they care about their questionable position of superiority within it's community... to what lengths these people go can be seen every day, right here in the forums... that's why they spend hours and hours of bashing down critics and undermining discussions.
...that's what bleating goonsheeps are ...and they are quite predictable, and rather funny to watch, actually. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3718
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:42:00 -
[2463] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Doc Fury wrote: What does that have to do with "grrr goons" and my rebuttal to that nonsense?
Or are you just responding to posts with anything now?
The fact that 2011 was CCP's best year casts a different light on the whole post-Incarna issue. And the poor performance of everything since also casts a different light on the benefits of preaching to the choir in terms of game development. There is no need that we quit personally when the people who should be enthusiastic (and often, they are) about CCP's way of developing EVE since 2011, actually are not doing CCP any financial favor. WE don't give them our money (buy PLEXes with amassed ISK, unsub, or take comeback offers with juicy discounts), and YOU aren't doing it neither...
WatGäó?
Maybe it's time to refill your meds again or take some deep breaths, but I'm not that kind of doctor. Perhaps then you can refute the points I actually made using coherent sentences (sans gibberish) and we can later discuss when you aren't so hysterical.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
981
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:54:00 -
[2464] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Crasniya wrote:But balancing has nothing to do with WiS, WiS is a completely different type of effort, and would not harm subscriptions, as long as CCP continued to rebalance and iterate spaceship gameplay. I don't know how I can make this concept any more simple. If they spend resources on WiS it means they are not spending those resources on real Eve content. Ship balancing is content when it means that hulls that nobody ever flies become viable options again. If you guys could stop obsessing over bathrobes and dance parties you'd see that Eve has been expanding and getting better since Incarna.
Speaking about incoherence, seems your buddy Rhes has a case of that. He keeps going on about dance parties and bathrobes when no one ever mentioned such things. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Syds Sinclair
Estel Arador Corp Services
71
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:57:00 -
[2465] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash. Oh 'come on, atleast be an educated troll, hm? First: The budget it totally irrelevant... EVE's development only took 2.6 mil. Second: SC has no subscription fees, only a chash shop, that offers nothing that cannot be bought with ingame cradits. What the game already has, however, are 260k backers that pledged an average of 60$... and all those will be players.
Eve's development only took 2.6m you say? Seems about right, as Eve ten years ago was a giant piece of crap. What it DID do right, though, was be a no rules sandbox when there was no other no rules sandboxes around.
SC's 20m, no subscription (lol F2P already, those games do great) and entering a field with a giant (Eve), I think my statement holds true. SC is in trouble.
Good luck to them.
Only time will tell, but get ready for a big fat I told ya so.
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3718
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 20:59:00 -
[2466] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Doc Fury wrote:What does that have to do with "grrr goons" and my rebuttal to that nonsense? Goons? Goons are of no consequence... but the name has become quite a synonym for a very vocal, very conservative group of players that are, out of principle against any changes to "their EVE"... not because they actually care about the game, mind you, but because they care about their questionable position of superiority within it's community... to what lengths these people go can be seen every day, right here in the forums... that's why they spend hours and hours of bashing down critics and undermining discussions. ...that's what bleating goonsheeps are ...and they are quite predictable, and rather funny to watch, actually.
Um, O.K...
The question was not directed at you, nor did you provide any new or clarifying information to refute the tinfoil accusations made by your delusional counterpart. C O N T E X T, please look up that word. I am very well aware of who goons are and what they do, thank you. I've been here longer then you and them both. Yes, there once was EVE without goons.
Some of you seem to be getting so worked up, you just start posting whatever random crap crosses your mind whether it is on topic or not.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2018
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:04:00 -
[2467] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash. Oh 'come on, atleast be an educated troll, hm? First: The budget it totally irrelevant... EVE's development only took 2.6 mil. Second: SC has no subscription fees, only a chash shop, that offers nothing that cannot be bought with ingame cradits. What the game already has, however, are 260k backers that pledged an average of 60$... and all those will be players. Eve's development only took 2.6m you say? Seems about right, as Eve ten years ago was a giant piece of crap. What it DID do right, though, was be a no rules sandbox when there was no other no rules sandboxes around. SC's 20m, no subscription (lol F2P already, those games do great) and entering a field with a giant (Eve), I think my statement holds true. SC is in trouble. Good luck to them. Only time will tell, but get ready for a big fat I told ya so.
CCP is a one-hit wonder. Chris Roberts is Tom Jones. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21442
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:06:00 -
[2468] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:[quote=Shalua Rui]Only time will tell, but get ready for a big fat I told ya so. Maybe... although, EVE is hardly a giant, with it's meager ~20 k players and it's highly specialized game play model and extremely unwelcoming community... not exactly my observation, but the general consensus one get's when mentioning the game to other people.
So, if anything, EVE is in trouble... but then again, it has been for years... sometimes more, sometimes less. *shrugs* "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Syds Sinclair
Estel Arador Corp Services
72
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:10:00 -
[2469] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:[quote=Shalua Rui]Only time will tell, but get ready for a big fat I told ya so. Maybe... although, EVE is hardly a giant, with it's meager ~20 k players and it's highly specialized game play model and extremely unwelcoming community... not exactly my observation, but the general consensus one get's when mentioning the game to other people. So, if anything, EVE is in trouble... but then again, it has been for years... sometimes more, sometimes less. *shrugs*
..Ok. Let's end it on that.
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1969
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:15:00 -
[2470] - Quote
Well...
This is productive. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:36:00 -
[2471] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:I support ship balancing. Ship balancing requires one guy. How many devs does CCP have?
This is a shockingly ignorant comment. Do you understand how difficult it is to balance things in complex competitive online games? Even then, ship balancing isn't the only thing being done in the expansion. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
244
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:40:00 -
[2472] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Crasniya wrote:I support ship balancing. Ship balancing requires one guy. How many devs does CCP have? This is a shockingly ignorant comment. Do you understand how difficult it is to balance things in complex competitive online games? Even then, ship balancing isn't the only thing being done in the expansion.
Yes, we got two ships, ... four deployable space objects, I believe, and an achievement system that isn't cool enough to offer any cool achievements. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:45:00 -
[2473] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Rhes wrote:Crasniya wrote:I support ship balancing. Ship balancing requires one guy. How many devs does CCP have? This is a shockingly ignorant comment. Do you understand how difficult it is to balance things in complex competitive online games? Even then, ship balancing isn't the only thing being done in the expansion. Yes, we got two ships, ... four deployable space objects, I believe, and an achievement system that isn't cool enough to offer any cool achievements.
You forgot about high sec POCOs. The content generation from that alone was enough to make me happy about the expansion. You also missed the first part of CCP Seagull's intro where she explained that Rubicon is the first step in the next phase of the game where the great empires will be assaulted by the capsuleers. You should go back and rewatch the entire announcement...good stuff there.
But I guess if all you care about is space outfits and emotes...
|
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
244
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:50:00 -
[2474] - Quote
Rhes wrote:You forgot about high sec POCOs. The content generation from that alone was enough to make me happy about the expansion. You also missed the first part of CCP Seagull's intro where she explained that Rubicon is the first step in the next phase of the game where the great empires will be assaulted by the capsuleers. You should go back and rewatch the entire announcement...good stuff there.
Oh, yes. They are making something formerly not shootable shootable. "w00t".
See, that's the thing, that's what makes YOU happy. Not the literally hundreds of millions of MMO players who think this game isn't worth $15 a month. And it really isn't. The amount of change is this expansion could be paid for by a few people buying monocles or some stupid crud, and is hardly worth the $200 a year all of us pay for it.
The game is horribly static, because any time CCP wants to introduce something that truly adds gameplay, people like you cry about it. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1969
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 21:53:00 -
[2475] - Quote
Rhes wrote:You also missed the first part of CCP Seagull's intro where she explained that Rubicon is the first step in the next phase of the game where the great empires will be assaulted by the capsuleers. You should go back and rewatch the entire announcement...good stuff there.
You didn't buy that did you?
As for the POCOs. Sure, it will make things interesting for a little while. But it's not new content. They did the same for lowsec a good while ago now. All they've probably done is probably run an SQL statement.
Some Dev wrote:UPDATE PocoTable SET IsDestroyable=true; Done, lovely job. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 22:15:00 -
[2476] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:The game is horribly static, because any time CCP wants to introduce something that truly adds gameplay, people like you cry about it.
I'm not the one in this thread crying. I staged my protest during the summer of rage and got what I wanted and I'm happy with the direction the game is taking.
Team Avatar doesn't exist anymore and WiS wasn't even mentioned in the expansion announcement. It's time for those of you who can't live without more WiS nonsense to actually do something about it. If there as many of you as you seem to think somebody at CCP will notice all of your subscription cancellations.
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 22:41:00 -
[2477] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: Speaking of hypocrisy, a lot more players than just some goons quit (not threatened to quit), enough that it caused CCP to reassess it's financial outlook and staffing levels.
Brah, you and your herd should be doing Summers of Tantrum this year when they launched Dust514 and next year when they launch Valkyrie, not when they launched Incarna. Worst than releasing unfinished content in the game you pay for is only halting the work on it to make other games. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 22:57:00 -
[2478] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Team Avatar doesn't exist anymore and WiS wasn't even mentioned in the expansion announcement. It's time for those of you who can't live without more WiS nonsense to actually do something about it. If there as many of you as you seem to think somebody at CCP will notice all of your subscription cancellations.
Brah, we don't need to do sh*t. We're not attention whores like you and your mates. When ppl stop playing this game and go play others CCP will know what they have to do to get us back (though probably will be too late). |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3720
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:06:00 -
[2479] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Doc Fury wrote: Speaking of hypocrisy, a lot more players than just some goons quit (not threatened to quit), enough that it caused CCP to reassess it's financial outlook and staffing levels.
Brah, you and your herd should be doing Summers of Tantrum this year when they launched Dust514 and next year when they launch Valkyrie, not when they launched Incarna. Worst than releasing unfinished content in the game you pay for is only halting the work on it to make other games.
You should probably offer advice and explanations as rebuttal only once you have a clue about what you are speaking of, and can do so without changing the subject or resorting to Ad hominem whenever it is demonstrated you are being delusional.
But, I'm not holding my breath on that one.. Brah.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:11:00 -
[2480] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:rethoric speech full of rant
What was that? Come again? You ran out of viable arguments to explain your childish acts and now resort to some random sperg to try and come at me? Dayum thatz weak brah. Check yoself before you wreck yoself. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:20:00 -
[2481] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Brah, we don't need to do sh*t.
Then what are you complaining about? |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:22:00 -
[2482] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Then what are you complaining about?
Complaining? Thats what goonsheep do in such attention seeking events, not us WiS supporters brah. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:27:00 -
[2483] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: Then what are you complaining about?
Complaining? Thats what goonsheep do in such attention seeking events, not us WiS supporters brah.
You have posted multiple times in this thread about how unhappy you are with the game while I have posted the opposite.
I'm still confused about why you bother subscribing to a game you dislike so much.
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:32:00 -
[2484] - Quote
Rhes wrote: You have posted multiple times in this thread about how unhappy you are with the game while I have posted the opposite.
I'm still confused about why you bother subscribing to a game you dislike so much.
Check yoself before you engage in Summers of Tantrum and wreck yourself while Dust514 and Valkyrie are worked on instead of EVE. Hypocrite attention seeking tantrums are bad fo yo health brah.
P.S- LoL and Second Lyfe are here , dont let the door hit ya on the way out |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:33:00 -
[2485] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Check yourself before you engage in Summers of Tantrum and wreck yourself while Dust514 and Valkyrie are worked on instead of EVE. Hypocrite attention seeking tantrums are bad fo yo health brah.
So you're just trolling at this point?
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:34:00 -
[2486] - Quote
Rhes wrote: So you're just trolling at this point?
Dont fight the truth while rolling down a denial spiral. Accept it and get over it. Become better persons. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:41:00 -
[2487] - Quote
You can still play this game. Not everything is over. Don't need to go back to Second Lyfe or LoL yet. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
250
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:42:00 -
[2488] - Quote
I have to be honest: I'm way more excited about Valkyrie than anything the EVE team does. Because Valkyrie has new things coming, it's apparent that EVE doesn't. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3720
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:46:00 -
[2489] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Doc Fury wrote:rethoric speech full of rant
What was that? Come again? You ran out of viable arguments to explain your childish acts and now resort to some random sperg to try and come at me? Dayum thatz weak brah. Check yoself before you wreck yoself. P.S- LoL and Second Lyfe are here brah, dont let the door hit ya on the way out peace
Um, yeah...
I think we just uncovered either Vanilla Ice's forum alt, or Dog the Bounty Hunter's.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:50:00 -
[2490] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: Um, yeah...
I think we just uncovered either Vanilla Ice's forum alt, or Dog the Bounty Hunter's.
One of those people that "quit" when the goons did...
One would have hoped that you got yourself a life and bought a computer while you were away. But no, you're still playing in that calculator and whining at Incarna supporters. |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3720
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:54:00 -
[2491] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Doc Fury wrote: Um, yeah...
I think we just uncovered either Vanilla Ice's forum alt, or Dog the Bounty Hunter's.
One of those people that "quit" when the goons did... One would have hoped that you got yourself a life and bought a computer while you were away. But no, you're still playing in that calculator and whining at Incarna supporters.
Another perfect example of what I was referring to before about having a clue before speaking.
Now I'm thinking maybe J-Roc.. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 23:57:00 -
[2492] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: Another perfect example of what I was referring to before about having a clue before speaking.
Now I'm thinking maybe J-Roc..
Posting offtopic is bad for your health brah. Please resume your WiS whining (in lack of proper discussion or constructive ideas of course).
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3720
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 00:07:00 -
[2493] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Doc Fury wrote: Another perfect example of what I was referring to before about having a clue before speaking.
Now I'm thinking maybe J-Roc..
Posting offtopic is bad for your health brah. Please resume your WiS whining (in lack of proper discussion or constructive ideas of course).
I'm sorry, I don't speak derp, so you'll need to use English and act your age simultaneously to be taken seriously. That is unless you are in fact 12, in which case may dog have mercy on our souls.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 00:15:00 -
[2494] - Quote
You were saying something about a protest against resource expense on unfinished EVE features, and going silent past Dust514 launch and Valkyrie announcement? Please continue. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 00:40:00 -
[2495] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:fail at understanding hypocrisy or who were the mentioned hypocrites/insults/rethoric speech/rant/wah wah/denial/whining/change subject/Incarna is bayd wah wah/insults/wah/remain silent when confronted with the truth and asked for explanation |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 01:00:00 -
[2496] - Quote
But EVE is spaceshipz brah lolol oh wait |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra Gallente Federation
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 01:00:00 -
[2497] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:
The game is horribly static, because any time CCP wants to introduce something that truly adds gameplay, people like you cry about it.
..And this is the conflict. In Eve, the capsuleers add gameplay. CCP just implements the venue and the tools. It is up to the pilots to wield them.
The FiS crowd are saying "We want Eve's venue to remain in space, with spaceships, ok?"
The WiS crowd are saying "We want the Eve's venue to change from space and spaceships to ground engagements and avatars, ok?"
To which the FiS crowd says "Go /dance with XxDragonSlayerxX in one of the MANY other MMO's that let you do that sort of fruity stuff. Leave our spaceships alone."
To which the WiS crowd says "We don't want to /dance in wizard robes. We want engaging futuristic avatar based tactical team ground combat. We also want to /dance in wizard robes. And we want to mess with your spaceship game."
To which the FiS crowd says "Go play BF4, PS2, or Hello Kitty Online."
To which the WiS crowd says "No, we want all those things, and most importantly, we want them in your spaceship game. We are also furries IRL."
To which the FiS crowd says "Thatts weird, bro. Real weird. Ok, gotta go have some fun in the sandbox, good luck with all that. Real freekin weird tho bro, really."
I think this pretty much sums this thread up. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 01:21:00 -
[2498] - Quote
The FiS crowd says: we want to play EVE in calculators in our basements in peace and roleplay only in Second Life and LoL with 12 year olds.
To which the WiS crowd says: we want EVE Online to be a big sci-fi universe played on hi-tech hardware where avatar gameplay and space flight are all connected in the same game, not a WiS vs FiS immature skirmish.
I think this pretty much sums this thread up. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
794
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 02:08:00 -
[2499] - Quote
It's not an either/or argument. With appropriate planning we can see improvements to both space and stations. It's just a matter of what size steps to take.
Most WiS advocates would be satisfied with incremental steps that occur alongside improvements to flying in space.
The anti-WiS crowd seem to assume that everyone at CCP is an idiot that is incapable of having more than one project on the go at the same time. Which is funny.
I miss the days when you could say that EVE players were intelligent. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
348
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 02:48:00 -
[2500] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It's not an either/or argument. With appropriate planning we can see improvements to both space and stations. It's just a matter of what size steps to take.
I used to believe this as well. Then Incarna was released and I realized that Eve had been ignored for two years for a room with a couch and a monocle.
CCP has an amazing spaceship game and two failed avatar games...they should stick with what they do best.
|
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
796
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 03:43:00 -
[2501] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:It's not an either/or argument. With appropriate planning we can see improvements to both space and stations. It's just a matter of what size steps to take. I used to believe this as well. Then Incarna was released and I realized that Eve had been ignored for two years for a room with a couch and a monocle. CCP has an amazing spaceship game and two failed avatar games...they should stick with what they do best.
Then why, instead of campaigning against avatar content (in your incoherent way), are you not passionately against the THREE other games CCP are putting together.
Personally I think CCP has seen the writing on the wall and have decided that EVE is as large as it's going to get. So they are expanding to other products. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
348
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 04:53:00 -
[2502] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Then why, instead of campaigning against avatar content (in your incoherent way), are you not passionately against the THREE other games CCP are putting together.
I just answered this. Dust is a complete failure and won't be around much longer (and I did campaign against it before it was released), WoD is vaporware and Valkyrie I won't be playing but at least it's spaceship related. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
250
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 05:38:00 -
[2503] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:Then why, instead of campaigning against avatar content (in your incoherent way), are you not passionately against the THREE other games CCP are putting together. I just answered this. Dust is a complete failure and won't be around much longer (and I did campaign against it before it was released), WoD is vaporware and Valkyrie I won't be playing but at least it's spaceship related.
DUST is, at this point, a more entertaining game than EVE is. It's not going anywhere. And with any luck, should be part of the next sov system when CCP gets around to finally fixing that. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
349
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 05:41:00 -
[2504] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:DUST is, at this point, a more entertaining game than EVE is. It's not going anywhere. And with any luck, should be part of the next sov system when CCP gets around to finally fixing that.
It doesn't matter how entertaining it is if nobody is playing it (or more importantly paying for stuff). The integration with Eve is also laughable. |
Nuclear Xmas
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 06:04:00 -
[2505] - Quote
I think a player hub where people could walk around and do trades would be pretty cool, if that doesn't sound too akin to some Second Life nonsense where people just get caught up with dressing up dolls and showing them off.
However, exploring lost colonies might be fun so long as the devs don't go so far as to try and add some crap-ass combat mechanic or stupid puzzles into the mix, nothing to distract from the pure wonder of exploring desolate ruins and abandoned complexes... |
Nuclear Xmas
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 06:09:00 -
[2506] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:Then why, instead of campaigning against avatar content (in your incoherent way), are you not passionately against the THREE other games CCP are putting together. I just answered this. Dust is a complete failure and won't be around much longer (and I did campaign against it before it was released), WoD is vaporware and Valkyrie I won't be playing but at least it's spaceship related. DUST is, at this point, a more entertaining game than EVE is. It's not going anywhere. And with any luck, should be part of the next sov system when CCP gets around to finally fixing that.
Not to spur a debate or insult the devs, but it's just your run-of-the-mill FPS. We've got a million of them, and the FPS crowd has a very short attention span, even though it doesn't seem like a bad game, it's life span is certainly limited due to it's availability being on a soon to be outdated platform, and it's scale doesn't even really compare to other selections on the PS3.
It'll quickly become a forgotten title, sadly.
Maybe CCP should've opted for an RTS for their planet conquering EVE mechanic, on PC. That might've boded better and served more of a purpose in this game. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2025
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 06:53:00 -
[2507] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:(...)
Personally I think CCP has seen the writing on the wall and have decided that EVE is as large as it's going to get. So they are expanding to other products.
That's my feeling. I don't think that they've scuttled EVE, but they aren't puting all the stakes on it neither. Wether they can't or they don't want to step beyond, they are leading EVE in a minimal resistance course that effectively prevents engaging potential new players.
The only parts of the game which are readily accesible to a newcomer are hisec, PvE and "carebear" activities. And they're going to dismantle that content after neglecting its development for years (that content is provided by the empires, and starting with Rubicon, the empires are going to crumble under the mighty capsuleers, hoozah!).
Even worst, the whole Hallelujah Plan and its 3 years course will end up rewarding only the players who already managed to make the transition to nullsec gameplay. The "new space" concept looks like SOV instead of SOV; "go there, take it, exploit it, fight massive battles for it, then lose it and quit the game because you no longer can do what you liked to do" is what 15% of the player base has been doing for 7 years since sovereignty was introduced.
And then, there's a huge "nothing" to the rest of players... including the ones EVE still hasn't met, and which will leave as soon as they're offered the pathetic excuse of a content that hisec delivers. That, in case that they manage to overcome the shock of creating a gorgeous avatar, see it walking aorund in a cool single room and then find out that that's it and they better turn it off.
Of course, 1% of them will get PvP, have fun, get the appropiate friends, have more fun, and will be happy as a pig in the mud, but 1% of a 1% is a tiny amount.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1972
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 07:25:00 -
[2508] - Quote
Rhes wrote:raven666wings wrote:Check yourself before you engage in Summers of Tantrum and wreck yourself while Dust514 and Valkyrie are worked on instead of EVE. Hypocrite attention seeking tantrums are bad fo yo health brah. So you're just trolling at this point?
He's just doing what you were doing before. And now we have two of you in the thread. I hope your happy. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
351
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 07:55:00 -
[2509] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:raven666wings wrote:Check yourself before you engage in Summers of Tantrum and wreck yourself while Dust514 and Valkyrie are worked on instead of EVE. Hypocrite attention seeking tantrums are bad fo yo health brah. So you're just trolling at this point? He's just doing what you were doing before. And now we have two of you in the thread. I hope your happy.
But I'm not trolling.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
351
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 07:56:00 -
[2510] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Even worst, the whole Hallelujah Plan and its 3 years course will end up rewarding only the players who already managed to make the transition to nullsec gameplay.
This is a good thing. Anything CCP can do to get people from mindlessly mining and running missions in highsec will be good for the game.
|
|
Jadiss
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:40:00 -
[2511] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:
This is not a themepark mmo-rpg, in this game, players are the "content".
That's a convenient excuse for delivering nothing.... |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
982
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 09:12:00 -
[2512] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:[quote=Crasniya] The FiS crowd are saying "We want Eve's venue to remain in space, with spaceships, ok?"
The WiS crowd are saying "We want the Eve's venue to change from space and spaceships to ground engagements and avatars, ok?"
No, you are wrong. We want both. We love spaceships just as much as the FiS crowd, but we also want a "universal" sci-fi simulator. A capsuleer must do something when he has stepped out of his pod goo. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
985
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 09:29:00 -
[2513] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Even worst, the whole Hallelujah Plan and its 3 years course will end up rewarding only the players who already managed to make the transition to nullsec gameplay. This is a good thing. Anything CCP can do to get people from mindlessly mining and running missions in highsec will be good for the game.
Wait, since it's a sandbox game and people want to mine and run missions, CCP shouldn't be interfering right? Or does the sandbox part only apply to what nullsec people decide to apply it to? This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Schmata Bastanold
The brothers inc WHYS0 Expendable
1006
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 09:39:00 -
[2514] - Quote
In-station gambling platform could solve problems of bored avatars, in case of table games rake would be ISK sink just as well as slot machines could be and - what seems to be quite useful in light of recent drama - CCP could inject vanity items and marketing/promo stuff with it.
Not really WiS but also not requiring whole avatar oriented mess that nobody has a will and time to clean up and put in something useful. And if they would implement a way for players to host their games on that platform... Well, taking gambling from empires would be totally inline with Rubicon theme and boost to shady world of going all in with content of your hangar due to lack of liquid ISK and then meeting undock committee... That could quench some thirst among players. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
985
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 09:44:00 -
[2515] - Quote
please no .. I get very annoyed when corpies say "promo" in corp chat since they are all addicted to blink, that's all we need every station with a gambling area. No one would have any isk left This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Flamespar
Woof Club
799
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 10:46:00 -
[2516] - Quote
Personally I would love to be able to watch Dust514 and Valkyrie matches from within EVE and bet on the outcome.
But it had better be in a bar. I want to be able to have a pub brawl when the other team wins. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Kara Roideater
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 11:18:00 -
[2517] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:
The anti-WiS crowd seem to assume that everyone at CCP is an idiot that is incapable of having more than one project on the go at the same time. Which is funny.
Here's the thing - EvE the spaceship game funds all of CCPs projects and those projects use up resources that could be spent on developing the spaceship game. Now, you say it's funny that people should think that CCP is an idiot that is incapable of having more than on project on the go at the same time but the historical details say something different. I don't know if you were around for this but in the 18 months leading up to Incarna there was pretty much zero development carried out on EvE the spaceship game because CCP's staff and resources were deployed on other projects (Incarna, DUST and WoD). What did we get out of that period of divided focus? DUST has been far from successful and contributes almost nothing to the EvE universe; it is unclear whether or not it realistically has a future. Incarna was ... well ... Incarna and I don't think anyone would argue that it was a success. WoD certainly won't contribute anything directly to EvE, although if it is a success it will provide a second income stream so EvE players won't be supporting all of CCP's projects single-handedly. However, development of that project has been set back and CCP had to lay off a number of workers in the aftermath of the Incarna debacle, so we'll have to wait and see if and when that will materialise.
In short, with this track record, it is not really 'funny' to ask whether CCP is capable of successfully running multiple projects at the same time, especially when they have a track record of draining resources from core EvE gameplay to run other projects. It is perfectly legitimate for EvE players to worry about whether they will end up being sidelined again, as they have been in the past, despite being 'the goose that laid the golden egg'.
|
Cypherdog
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 11:37:00 -
[2518] - Quote
I see that CCP is trying to build a portfolio of games without success. EVE will remain a niche game. Incarna was the way forward to break from the Niche. WoD looks like ..I don't know, who cares. DUST has sadly failed (imho). But having seen DUST, I now have serious doubts Incarna would have been well implemented. The know-how is simply not there. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1973
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 12:32:00 -
[2519] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:I don't know if you were around for this but in the 18 months leading up to Incarna there was pretty much zero development carried out on EvE the spaceship game because CCP's staff and resources were deployed on other projects (Incarna, DUST and WoD).
This is incorrect on a very basic level. WoD was only in planning phase at the time, Dust hadn't even been mentioned and might not even have existed as a concept, and Incarna... well, the content we "saw" wasn't what was taking up development time.
CCP were working on CARBON. An entirely new games engine for Eve and World of Darkness to use. That's where all the development time went. Before you say other people don't know their history, perhaps you should make sure you know it yourself in future. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Kara Roideater
166
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 13:19:00 -
[2520] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:I don't know if you were around for this but in the 18 months leading up to Incarna there was pretty much zero development carried out on EvE the spaceship game because CCP's staff and resources were deployed on other projects (Incarna, DUST and WoD).
This is incorrect. WoD was only in planning phase at the time(they couldn't have been developing it yet because the CARBON engine wasn't finnished), and Incarna... well, the content we "saw" wasn't what was taking up development time. Dust was announced about the same time as the release of Incarna, but from what we know developement hadn't seriously started on it yet. CCP were working on CARBON. An entirely new games engine for Eve and World of Darkness to use. That's where all the development time went. Before you say other people don't know their history, perhaps you should make sure you know it yourself in future. We've got some great things from CARBON, but if you ask me it was a waste of time. Why re-invent the wheel when there are plenty of good engines out there available to use. Now CCP's resources are being drained by other games, but not then.
You're not really going to make me find the dev blogs are you? If WoD wasn't being developed, who were all those guys who got laid off shortly after Incarna flopped? And development hadn't started on DUST at that point? Are you kidding? DUST was announced in August 2009. Early in 2011, the year Incarna was released, CCP announced that DUST would enter Beta towards the end of the year. Of course, it was held back and delayed endlessly but they had some version of it round about the time of the Incarna release. Hell, if you look at CCP's financial figures for 2010 and 2011 you can see the massive amount of coding 'assets' they are booking at the time. |
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21446
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 13:24:00 -
[2521] - Quote
Cypherdog wrote:I see that CCP is trying to build a portfolio of games without success. EVE will remain a niche game. Incarna was the way forward to break from the Niche. WoD looks like ..I don't know, who cares. DUST has sadly failed (imho). But having seen DUST, I now have serious doubts Incarna would have been well implemented. The know-how is simply not there. True... I mean, EVE is an extremely flawed game. After 10 years of continuous development, it's still very unbalanced, horribly un-accessable and all in all, very very limited in scope.
The only reason why people put up with it for so long is because it's one of a kind... it's totally player driven, working economy... it's open ended gameplay... well, actually UO and SWG had all that too, but we all know what happened to them.
What I'm saying is: CCP isn't really that great a developer many people (me included) thought them to be... the only thing they really did well, was making the base principle of EVE work, many years ago... other then that, all their exploits haven't been ver impressive... at all. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Kara Roideater
166
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 13:26:00 -
[2522] - Quote
massively wrote: The development firm behind EVE Online, DUST 514, and the World of Darkness MMO has just issued a press release stating that it will be trimming approximately 20% of its staff worldwide.
According to CCP Manifest, most of the layoffs will occur in the company's Atlanta, Georgia offices, with select positions at the Reykjavik, Iceland camp also affected.
Manifest says that EVE expansions, DUST, and WoD have stretched CCP's resources too thin, and the company will now "sharpen our focus." In the short term, this means more attention for EVE Online and DUST 514, while World of Darkness will "continue development with a significantly reduced team."
This was in October 2011, three months after the deployment of Incarna. It is entirely plain from what CCP themselves said both at the time and in the previous two years that dev teams were being taken off EvE to work on these other projects. There were whole blogs about the topic and it was CCP's admission that this was what they were doing that laid the ground for the outrage about the reality of Incarna. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2030
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 13:42:00 -
[2523] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Cypherdog wrote:I see that CCP is trying to build a portfolio of games without success. EVE will remain a niche game. Incarna was the way forward to break from the Niche. WoD looks like ..I don't know, who cares. DUST has sadly failed (imho). But having seen DUST, I now have serious doubts Incarna would have been well implemented. The know-how is simply not there. True... I mean, even EVE is still an extremely flawed game. After 10 years of continuous development, it's very unbalanced, horribly un-accessable and all in all, very limited in scope. The only reason why people put up with it for so long is because it's one of a kind... it's totally player driven, working economy... it's open ended gameplay... well, actually UO and SWG had all that too, but we all know what happened to them. What I'm saying is: CCP isn't really that great a developer many people (me included) thought them to be... the only thing they really did well, was making the base principle of EVE work, many years ago... other then that, all their exploits haven't been ver impressive... at all.
I don't recall where I read it first, but calling CCP a "one hit wonder" is a very clever way to put the situation in perspective. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Cypherdog
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 14:08:00 -
[2524] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I don't recall where I read it first, but calling CCP a "one hit wonder" is a very clever way to put the situation in perspective.
...That would make CCP the "Macarena" of the videogames industry.
|
Mhax Arthie
145
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 14:09:00 -
[2525] - Quote
Check out the last 2 pictures about Algos in this dev blog, pic 1 and pic 2.
While the rest of the images seems to be Dust related, these 2 images might be some sort of prototype images about WiS. I might stop pumping money in SC if this is part of ccp future plans with EVE! And yeah, I know those are some kind of book illustrations but why so detailed and so much focus on ships interior? |
Cypherdog
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 14:26:00 -
[2526] - Quote
That's too good to be true. But only Concept art. In another video blog, they made it crystal clear that they had no plans for Ship interiors. And even ridiculed the idea. To which I felt a little upset. Those Drawings are only for EVE source. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1974
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 15:04:00 -
[2527] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:Arduemont wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:I don't know if you were around for this but in the 18 months leading up to Incarna there was pretty much zero development carried out on EvE the spaceship game because CCP's staff and resources were deployed on other projects (Incarna, DUST and WoD).
This is incorrect. WoD was only in planning phase at the time(they couldn't have been developing it yet because the CARBON engine wasn't finnished), and Incarna... well, the content we "saw" wasn't what was taking up development time. Dust was announced about the same time as the release of Incarna, but from what we know developement hadn't seriously started on it yet. CCP were working on CARBON. An entirely new games engine for Eve and World of Darkness to use. That's where all the development time went. Before you say other people don't know their history, perhaps you should make sure you know it yourself in future. We've got some great things from CARBON, but if you ask me it was a waste of time. Why re-invent the wheel when there are plenty of good engines out there available to use. Now CCP's resources are being drained by other games, but not then. You're not really going to make me find the dev blogs are you? If WoD wasn't being developed, who were all those guys who got laid off shortly after Incarna flopped? And development hadn't started on DUST at that point? Are you kidding? DUST was announced in August 2009. Early in 2011, the year Incarna was released, CCP announced that DUST would enter Beta towards the end of the year. Of course, it was held back and delayed endlessly but they had some version of it round about the time of the Incarna release. Hell, if you look at CCP's financial figures for 2010 and 2011 you can see the massive amount of coding 'assets' they are booking at the time.
I admit defeat on the Dust issue. Mis-remembered badly on my part. The point stands on WoD though. The Carbon engine was finished just before Incarna was released and integrated during that expansion. If there were any people who were officially working on WoD at the time they were working ON the Carbon engine.
Same point stands with Incarna. Incarna was about the Carbon engine integration. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
355
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 15:40:00 -
[2528] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:True... I mean, even EVE is still an extremely flawed game. After 10 years of continuous development, it's very unbalanced, horribly un-accessable and all in all, very limited in scope.
I completely agree which is why I don't want CCP to waste resources on WiS nonsense when they should be fixing the flaws in the core game.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
355
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 15:42:00 -
[2529] - Quote
Mhax Arthie wrote:I know those are some kind of book illustrations but why so detailed and so much focus on ships interior?
Because Eve is a spaceship game.
|
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
256
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 15:44:00 -
[2530] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:At the moment it looks like Dust can't support itself. It's being supported by Eve.
I'd like to see your evidence of that. Quite a few serious DUST players are running double-boosters (active and passive) which cost in excess of $20-30 per month EACH. Which means there are plenty of players paying $40-60 a month to play DUST. Not counting paid weapons/suits/etc. |
|
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
257
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 15:46:00 -
[2531] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:True... I mean, even EVE is still an extremely flawed game. After 10 years of continuous development, it's very unbalanced, horribly un-accessable and all in all, very limited in scope. I completely agree which is why I don't want CCP to waste resources on WiS nonsense when they should be fixing the flaws in the core game.
Core problems like EVE's terrible New Player Experience would be pretty much solved by WiS. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
355
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 15:49:00 -
[2532] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Arduemont wrote:At the moment it looks like Dust can't support itself. It's being supported by Eve. I'd like to see your evidence of that. Quite a few serious DUST players are running double-boosters (active and passive) which cost in excess of $20-30 per month EACH. Which means there are plenty of players paying $40-60 a month to play DUST. Not counting paid weapons/suits/etc.
Depending on a few people to pay $60 a month to keep your game in business seems like a really sound business plan.
If CCP isn't careful they will end up like Zynga. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
355
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 15:49:00 -
[2533] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Core problems like EVE's terrible New Player Experience would be pretty much solved by WiS.
WiS isn't real Eve gameplay so using it for the NPE would just be confusing.
Would your version of the NPE be sitting on your couch in your CQ watching tutorial videos of how to operate your ship on the little video screen? |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1974
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 15:58:00 -
[2534] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:True... I mean, even EVE is still an extremely flawed game. After 10 years of continuous development, it's very unbalanced, horribly un-accessable and all in all, very limited in scope. I completely agree which is why I don't want CCP to waste resources on WiS nonsense when they should be fixing the flaws in the core game.
But your fine with them wasting resources on WoD, Dust and Valkyrie right?
Crasniya wrote:Arduemont wrote:At the moment it looks like Dust can't support itself. It's being supported by Eve. I'd like to see your evidence of that. Quite a few serious DUST players are running double-boosters (active and passive) which cost in excess of $20-30 per month EACH. Which means there are plenty of players paying $40-60 a month to play DUST. Not counting paid weapons/suits/etc.
Just a hunch really. They have (an optimistic) 4000 active players average. Bearing in mind that people don't have to pay to be active, I would air on the side of caution in presuming many of them are actually paying anything.
http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
355
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 16:05:00 -
[2535] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:But your fine with them wasting resources on WoD, Dust and Valkyrie right?
I have answered this at least three times on the last few pages of the thread. But I'll do it one more time for the slow people.
Dust has failed miserably and probably won't be around much longer (and I did protest the time and money spent on it when it was announced), WoD is vaporware with barely any staff assigned to it and Valkyrie, while I won't be playing it, is at least spaceship related.
All clear now?
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
353
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 16:30:00 -
[2536] - Quote
Mhax Arthie wrote:Check out the last 2 pictures about Algos in this dev blog, pic 1 and pic 2. While the rest of the images seems to be Dust related, these 2 images might be some sort of prototype images about WiS. I might stop pumping money in SC if this is part of ccp future plans with EVE! And yeah, I know those are some kind of book illustrations but why so detailed and so much focus on ships interior?
Because someone said something about plausibility and immersion in the graphic department? One image could be worth a thousand words, so why would you buy a book without good graphics? Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1974
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 16:37:00 -
[2537] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:But your fine with them wasting resources on WoD, Dust and Valkyrie right? I have answered this at least three times on the last few pages of the thread. But I'll do it one more time for the slow people. Dust has failed miserably and probably won't be around much longer (and I did protest the time and money spent on it when it was announced), WoD is vaporware with barely any staff assigned to it and Valkyrie, while I won't be playing it, is at least spaceship related. All clear now?
So, let's get this straight. You are happy with the amount of (spaceship) content we are currently getting in our expansions at the moment, but you hate the fact that some people might want CCP to spend some of their wasted (Dust, WoD, Valkyrie) resources on WiS content?
You do realise, that we can both be happy right? Or are you that spiteful that you would want other people to be unhappy when their happiness would cost you nothing? "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
353
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 16:42:00 -
[2538] - Quote
Rhes expressed his fears earlier, so no, he would not be, at least when we take into consideration his posts. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
361
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 16:45:00 -
[2539] - Quote
Mhax Arthie wrote:Check out the last 2 pictures about Algos in this dev blog, pic 1 and pic 2. While the rest of the images seems to be Dust related, these 2 images might be some sort of prototype images about WiS. I might stop pumping money in SC if this is part of ccp future plans with EVE! And yeah, I know those are some kind of book illustrations but why so detailed and so much focus on ships interior? Way, way, way off-topic...
If CCP is going to attend the New York Comic Con, then I really hope they consider plans to attend its sister convention (spin-off convention) here in Chicago - C2E2 (Chicago Comic and Entertainment Expo).
Back to your regularly scheduled "Avatars will ruin or save a dying Eve!" rants. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21450
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 17:26:00 -
[2540] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Rhes expressed his fears earlier, so no, he would not be, at least when we take into consideration his posts. Why do you keep listening to that sad, little troll... he already made abundantly clear that he wasn't interested in any form of real discussion.
...and on that dev blog: Some random pieces of artwork used for a book... not very impressive. Also, no indication what CCP is planing anything concrete concearning the games presentation, let alone avatar related.
At least the cutaway proves that there are indeed crews a board EVEs space ships... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
|
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
258
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 17:37:00 -
[2541] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Crasniya wrote:Core problems like EVE's terrible New Player Experience would be pretty much solved by WiS. WiS isn't real Eve gameplay so using it for the NPE would just be confusing. Would your version of the NPE be sitting on your couch in your CQ watching tutorial videos of how to operate your ship on the little video screen?
Incorrect. The deluge of menus and spreadsheets and various hidden option panels are beyond all levels of sanity in EVE. However, most of the things you could do in station would be much easier to interpret in a "walking around Orgrimmar" concept that gamers are pretty much used to from every other game in existence.
So WiS would provide an easy way to explore the things you can do from the station Neocom. As players needed to do something regularly, they would figure out "Oh, I can just do this from this button here." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2030
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:30:00 -
[2542] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Rhes expressed his fears earlier, so no, he would not be, at least when we take into consideration his posts. Why do you keep listening to that sad, little troll... he already made abundantly clear that he wasn't interested in any form of real discussion. ...and on that dev blog: Some random pieces of artwork used for a book... not very impressive. Also, no indication what CCP is planing anything concrete concearning the games presentation, let alone avatar related. At least the cutaway proves that there are indeed crews a board EVEs space ships...
I already stated how I don't feel up to allow that artbook make me dream of different, better EVE experiences. My issue it's not with the beautiful images... it's about the fugly game and the absolute lack of hope. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
165
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 22:18:00 -
[2543] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:But your fine with them wasting resources on WoD, Dust and Valkyrie right? Dust has failed miserably and probably won't be around much longer (and I did protest the time and money spent on it when it was announced), WoD is vaporware with barely any staff assigned to it and Valkyrie, while I won't be playing it, is at least spaceship related. All clear now? So, let's get this straight. You are happy with the amount of (spaceship) content we are currently getting in our expansions at the moment, but you hate the fact that some people might want CCP to spend some of their wasted (Dust, WoD, Valkyrie) resources on WiS content? You do realise, that we can both be happy right? Or are you that spiteful that you would want other people to be unhappy when their happiness would cost you nothing?
Right, this guy and the rest of the "anti-WiS" or "FiS" or nay-sayer mouth-foamer persons seem to think the avatar gameplay supporters somehow would like to see the game polishing and ship rebalancing efforts halted just like the rest of the game development. Somehow they have to create this idea of confrontation to have something to quarell about, seem even afraid to be able to accept that what we are suggesting to CCP is not that they stop this work on the game to continue work on avatar gameplay, but rather to have the teams that were disbanded and assigned to side projects go back to work on EVE.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I already stated how I don't feel up to allow that artbook make me dream of different, better EVE experiences. My issue it's not with the beautiful images... it's about the fugly game and the absolute lack of hope.
Lol give us more money and dream with us here guyz with Future VisionzGäó while we spend it on another games.
No thanks. I'd rather put money in the development of games I actually play.
Tired of CCPeen Reinvented WheelGäó failed promises. Looks so good doesn't it?
Now my question to CCP CEO, Vice Presidents, Executive Producers and other suit wearing individuals: - Where is the fruit of all this? Was it really worthy all the developer burnouts and layoffs, among other resource expense? Are people happy and buying these marvellous technological advancements you have achieved in graphic technology? Or are they putting money in other developer's games using reliable tools available on the market to make unified game universes? Don't get me wrong, I think the idea of developing your own company created technology is a great achievement and something to be proud of. What I can't understand is the development decisions made by thyselves regarding the side games' (Dust514/Valkyrie) graphic engines. I mean, you are so proud of this Reinvented WheelGäó and refuse to work with other 3rd party created software in EVE, and then develop games that are supposed to be connected to it using Unreal 3 and Unity?????? It doesn't take an expert in graphic engine development to grasp that you should be using the same software on all the games you want to connect, be it Carbon, Unreal or Unity. What you don't wanna do is develop each in its own engine and alienate the playerbases!!! |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
261
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 22:30:00 -
[2544] - Quote
raven:
The PS3 couldn't support Carbon's graphics component. I wouldn't be surprised to see a future PS4 version of DUST someday using Carbon. Valkyrie will probably be built in Carbon as well, as with the WiS prototype talked about at the start of this thread, CCP devs use Unity for rapid prototyping because of how easy it is to throw something together. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
165
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 22:34:00 -
[2545] - Quote
Lol not the PC vs PS3 choice discussion again. Imma take a pass on that one. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
355
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 05:25:00 -
[2546] - Quote
Quoting:
Quote:The Carbon Build System works with the Single Code Repository to produce deployable versions of CCP virtual worlds in just hours instead of days
Source: http://www.ccpgames.com/en/company/technology
Maybe its just lie and they need years instead of centurys, or if it's true, then CCP reinvented the wheel and added the jet engine, but somehow is afraid of using it, in fear of spectacular crash.
Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2031
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 06:48:00 -
[2547] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:raven:
The PS3 couldn't support Carbon's graphics component. I wouldn't be surprised to see a future PS4 version of DUST someday using Carbon. Valkyrie will probably be built in Carbon as well, as with the WiS prototype talked about at the start of this thread, CCP devs use Unity for rapid prototyping because of how easy it is to throw something together.
Can't remember the details, but someone shared a techy explanation on why PS3 graphics code can't be carried over to PS4 and so porting DUST to PS4 would mean re-writing everything again; it had to do with PS3 using specialyzed graphic processors and PS4 using a completely different graphical core not compatible with PS3's 7 years old hardware. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
650
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 07:18:00 -
[2548] - Quote
Just stumbled across this thread and I'm kinda glad I did. I'll happily join the others who've said it's restored a little of their faith that was lost when Incarna was rolled out.
From just skimming this thread it's obvious some people are stuck in tunnel-vision in regards to their own gameplay style. I love internet spaceships, I'm here in EVE because I like flyin' them and enjoy some pew pew. I'm also a shameless lover of space barbies too *shrugs*
In the end the game will change, evolve. And all we can do is hope that it's done in a balanced fashion. Nobody's ever going to be 100% happy and I'd hate to see one side of the game suffer for another, but I'll be optimistic and keep my faith in CCP to eventually deliver a product that satisfies everyone's gaming style without compromising others'.
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. Totally this. ^_^ |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1984
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 07:19:00 -
[2549] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:raven:
The PS3 couldn't support Carbon's graphics component. I wouldn't be surprised to see a future PS4 version of DUST someday using Carbon. Valkyrie will probably be built in Carbon as well, as with the WiS prototype talked about at the start of this thread, CCP devs use Unity for rapid prototyping because of how easy it is to throw something together.
Valkyrie started production in Unity, which is an incredible development engine. The smart thing to do would be to stick with Unity. Dust runs on the Unreal Engine (which is what WiS was initially planned to run on). Carbon was a massive waste of CCP's time.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Can't remember the details, but someone shared a techy explanation on why PS3 graphics code can't be carried over to PS4 and so porting DUST to PS4 would mean re-writing everything again; it had to do with PS3 using specialyzed graphic processors and PS4 using a completely different graphical core not compatible with PS3's 7 years old hardware.
I actually remember something quite to the contrary, that the vast majority of Dust wasn't specifically coded for the PS3 anyway. Perhaps they (stupidly) just converted a lot of code then...
Love your enthusiasm, but since this thread was created a year ago we have seen nothing. This thread has only kept going because people want to show that they still want Avatar content, but it doesn't look like CCP are paying any attention. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
650
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 07:39:00 -
[2550] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Love your enthusiasm, but since this thread was created a year ago we have seen nothing. This thread has only kept going because people want to show that they still want Avatar content, but it doesn't look like CCP are paying any attention. Yeah, I gathered that from the sudden lack of Dev posts after the initial pages (combined with the fact this seems to be one of the very few Dev topics which isn't sticked ... )
But I still like to show my enthusiasm for avatar-based gameplay because, well, someone's gotta I suppose or it'll never happen.
Also, +1 for your patience and efforts here, raising good points and fighting the trolls since the thread's inception. ^_^ |
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
355
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 08:47:00 -
[2551] - Quote
Quote:But I still like to show my enthusiasm for avatar-based gameplay because, well, someone's gotta I suppose or it'll never happen.
See you in SC, or maybe even in Elite: Dangerous, if they will try to make the expansion based on this style of gameplay. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
656
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 08:56:00 -
[2552] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Quote:But I still like to show my enthusiasm for avatar-based gameplay because, well, someone's gotta I suppose or it'll never happen. See you in SC, or maybe even in Elite: Dangerous, if they will try to make the expansion based on this style of gameplay. Actually I'll probably check out SC when it's a little further developed, it does interest me somewhat. And aside from EVE I do spend a lot of time in avatar-based games.
But I spend most of my time in EVE because I love it's open-ended and unforgiving nature.
I'd love to eventually see the "ultimate sci-fi simulator" that the Devs have often mentioned they hope EVE will one day be. Not just a spaceship sim alone, and not just a barbie sim. An ultimate sim. ^_^ |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21471
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 09:46:00 -
[2553] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:I'd love to eventually see the "ultimate sci-fi simulator" that the Devs have often mentioned they hope EVE will one day be. Not just a spaceship sim alone, and not just a barbie sim. An ultimate sim. That's the idea, or better that WAS the idea... but, right now, I doubt we ever will see that, at least not in one game... maybe when the project leadership changes yet again.
SC will have avatar gameplay from the start... including WiS, ships and on planets... Elite Dangerous will have it in it's first expansion, a year after release... so, come 2015, there should be two solid space games WITH avatar gameplay. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1002
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 11:08:00 -
[2554] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:You do realise, that we can both be happy right? Or are you that spiteful that you would want other people to be unhappy when their happiness would cost you nothing?
I would go for him being spiteful, he is a goon after all and we know about their relationship with tears and such. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21471
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 11:22:00 -
[2555] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:I would go for him being spiteful, he is a goon after all and we know about their relationship with tears and such. Yea, Goons... fun bunch... I mean, you gotta love people that only play games to ultimately break them, and to show the whole world how clever they are in doing so.
...but, it kinda explaines why they are against any new mechanics introduced to "their" game: More gameplay options means more ways for other players to avoid them. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
799
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 11:56:00 -
[2556] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:I would go for him being spiteful, he is a goon after all and we know about their relationship with tears and such. Yea, Goons... fun bunch... I mean, you gotta love people that only play games to ultimately break them, and to show the whole world how clever they are in doing so. ...but, it kinda explaines why they are against any new mechanics introduced to "their" game: More gameplay options means more ways for other players to avoid them.
I'm actually not a fan of the "all goons are stupid" argument. They all have their own views and way of playing the game.
They are not all against avatar content. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1984
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 12:17:00 -
[2557] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Yea, Goons... fun bunch... I mean, you gotta love people that only play games to ultimately break them, and to show the whole world how clever they are in doing so.
The Goons original mission statement (if you like) was to literally destroy Eve Online. So, I understand people hatred of them. But ultimately the goons are not like that anymore. They're just an alliance like any other. A particularly powerful alliance, but none the less.
I think generalizing these sentiments to it's members is silly these days. Most goons probably have no idea that the original intention of their alliance was to destroy the game they love. Many goons don't share the greifers' attitude either. I know a fair few Goons personally who are strong advocates of WiS.
Goons are people too (maybe not Rhes), you know? "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21471
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 12:43:00 -
[2558] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Goons are people too (maybe not Rhes), you know? If you say so...
Just kidding. I'm well aware that not all Goons I like that... I just think their original agenda... their "mission" if you will.. was stupid.
Anyways, that's a non topic... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
265
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 15:08:00 -
[2559] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Valkyrie started production in Unity, which is an incredible development engine. The smart thing to do would be to stick with Unity. Dust runs on the Unreal Engine (which is what WiS was initially planned to run on). Carbon was a massive waste of CCP's time.
It was prototyped in Unity. Now Valkyrie is actually getting developed for real, and almost certainly being rewritten from scratch. Notes we've been given on Valkyrie's original version that was demo'd was that it's horrible code that could never be released.
Also, behold that most of the new UI that's particularly nice on EVE is due to Carbon. Ship skinning... Carbon. A lot of the new overhauled game mechanics from the last three or four expansions are Carbon. The new RESTful API that won't suck as much as what we currently use... Carbon. The way DUST and EVE communicate... yeah, that's Carbon.
Carbon is so much more than WiS. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1989
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:08:00 -
[2560] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Arduemont wrote:Valkyrie started production in Unity, which is an incredible development engine. The smart thing to do would be to stick with Unity. Dust runs on the Unreal Engine (which is what WiS was initially planned to run on). Carbon was a massive waste of CCP's time. It was prototyped in Unity. Now Valkyrie is actually getting developed for real, and almost certainly being rewritten from scratch. Notes we've been given on Valkyrie's original version that was demo'd was that it's horrible code that could never be released. Also, behold that most of the new UI that's particularly nice on EVE is due to Carbon. Ship skinning... Carbon. A lot of the new overhauled game mechanics from the last three or four expansions are Carbon. The new RESTful API that won't suck as much as what we currently use... Carbon. The way DUST and EVE communicate... yeah, that's Carbon. Carbon is so much more than WiS.
I suppose even this Avatar exploration was prototyped in unity. Carbon is much better than a complete lack of a decent engine, but if you ask me they would be smart to keep Valkyrie in Unity indefinitely. Well, actually if you really ask me they would do better to drop Valkyrie until World of Darkness and Dust are pulling their weight financially so that Eve development doesn't suffer for having to pull their weight.
Also, this thread hit over 80k views. Not long until it's the most viewed thread on the forum, stickied threads included. (-1). "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
801
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 06:01:00 -
[2561] - Quote
There's more to Carbon that the graphics side of things. There was a pretty good presentation on it at one fanfest (can't remember which one)
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Lateris
42
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 16:32:00 -
[2562] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Arduemont wrote:Valkyrie started production in Unity, which is an incredible development engine. The smart thing to do would be to stick with Unity. Dust runs on the Unreal Engine (which is what WiS was initially planned to run on). Carbon was a massive waste of CCP's time. It was prototyped in Unity. Now Valkyrie is actually getting developed for real, and almost certainly being rewritten from scratch. Notes we've been given on Valkyrie's original version that was demo'd was that it's horrible code that could never be released. Also, behold that most of the new UI that's particularly nice on EVE is due to Carbon. Ship skinning... Carbon. A lot of the new overhauled game mechanics from the last three or four expansions are Carbon. The new RESTful API that won't suck as much as what we currently use... Carbon. The way DUST and EVE communicate... yeah, that's Carbon. Carbon is so much more than WiS.
I thought they were rewriting Valkyrie in Unity? So if it is rewritten in carbon that leads to the O-R- being used in Eve?
.:=[ObscuriLateris.com--áMining Corp]=:. .:=[ObscuriSoft.com- Soft Development]=:. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1996
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 16:57:00 -
[2563] - Quote
Lateris wrote:Crasniya wrote:Arduemont wrote:Valkyrie started production in Unity, which is an incredible development engine. The smart thing to do would be to stick with Unity. Dust runs on the Unreal Engine (which is what WiS was initially planned to run on). Carbon was a massive waste of CCP's time. It was prototyped in Unity. Now Valkyrie is actually getting developed for real, and almost certainly being rewritten from scratch. Notes we've been given on Valkyrie's original version that was demo'd was that it's horrible code that could never be released. Also, behold that most of the new UI that's particularly nice on EVE is due to Carbon. Ship skinning... Carbon. A lot of the new overhauled game mechanics from the last three or four expansions are Carbon. The new RESTful API that won't suck as much as what we currently use... Carbon. The way DUST and EVE communicate... yeah, that's Carbon. Carbon is so much more than WiS. I thought they were rewriting Valkyrie in Unity? So if it is rewritten in carbon that leads to the O-R- being used in Eve?
I don't know that they are re-writing it at all, but it was definitely using Unity when they started developing it. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
167
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 03:16:00 -
[2564] - Quote
Meanwhile at Star Citizen,
avatar personal computer concept and hints to clothing and body armor shops unveiled |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21546
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 08:25:00 -
[2565] - Quote
Yea, looks really cool... this game will just bleed immersion! "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2045
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 08:39:00 -
[2566] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Yea, looks really cool... this game will just bleed immersion!
89,999 whatever trenchcoats? I hope those are just placeholder prices! The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21546
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 09:03:00 -
[2567] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:89,999 whatever trenchcoats? I hope those are just placeholder prices! Could be... also, we don't know how much credits will really be worth... but it sure looks nice. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Susiqueta Muir
Bio-Tech Research
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 09:24:00 -
[2568] - Quote
I'm all for the inclusion of wis content alongside ifs and I don't subscribe to the view that development of one will be at the detriment of the other.
I've said it before, the word development for character development and clothing etc could be crossed over with the eve wis / next store items to a degree and could be used as a test bed for those items.
My old style avatar pre-incarna looked like she had been dragged out of the pod and shoved into a dress for a formal mugshot. The range of items and customization under the old system was immense. Surely some of the development for wod could be brought across without breaking the genre?
New zones and spaces? Take the rooms already created for dust and re-skin for eve? Take the player room and use it for a market views pace. Take the big ready room and add a big 3d ship fitting screen, where you can drag fittings to and from the hangar to your ship? Totally replicates the normal fitting screen, just scales it up and makes it something you can walk around in.
My only concern over EVR is that it doesn't interact directly with eve in e same way dust does. If not directly linked then it is an interesting sideline but essentially a shard experience rather than a single universe...
Sm. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2048
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 12:30:00 -
[2569] - Quote
Susiqueta Muir wrote:(...)
My old style avatar pre-incarna looked like she had been dragged out of the pod and shoved into a dress for a formal mugshot. The range of items and customization under the old system was immense. Surely some of the development for wod could be brought across without breaking the genre?(...).
Heh...
Susiqueta Muir, Old & New
Myself...
Indah...
Yiole...
The old portraits were cartoonish but totally Sci-fi, wereas the new ones are way better but look totally 2011. And a few pages above I already showed how that was not the plan, at least not in 2007/8. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Susiqueta Muir
Bio-Tech Research
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 13:36:00 -
[2570] - Quote
Aye, the characters had a certain scifi charm and a huge range of variation which is so missing from the new system, plus if the pod pilots are gods amongst men, why are they stuck with a totally utilitarian look? Use the WOD items that are developed and cross-port the non-genre breaking ones. He'll, it'll even be a way of getting metrics on what items and styles are popular...
Quick win to keep the space barbies happy :).
Content wise, wis should be a pleasant distraction from fis, there shouldn't be anything in there that you can't do from the hangar interface, but what it will give is a whole new level of immersion and engagement for players old and new.
When playing the market, yes I can do it all from the comfort of CQ or even the ship hangar, but what's wrong with standing in a virtual trade house room, with maybe different market feeds on each wall panel, or links to external websites up on screens to look at and interact with rather than just having more browser windows open?
The ship hangar, yes, a series of icons to show the ships is fine, but how about being able to see the ships side by side in an actual storage room? How about seeing from your current hangar view the ship currently piloted by the person above and below you on the guest list? You change fittings or move cargo, cargo bots or fitting teams animate in the background. Hell, if I buy 1bn units of tritanium, I want to go and sit atop a pile of boxes or a huge gold pile of all my isk.. :).
Little things that add immersion but don't detract from "core pew pew" gameplay. Turn it off or ignore it if you want to , no problem with that.
Stating that all development MUST be purely focused on FIS gameplay is a recipe for disaster IMO. If the game can't develop and change over time then it risks becoming more and more of a niche environment. I'm sure that will please many but without new players with more ways into and to interact with the eve universe then player numbers and ultimately the game will fall.
If the demand is there then it would be stupid to ignore it and not invest in an area of the game players are interested in. Hire some more devs if needs be. Get a small team re-engaged fully again. The proof of concept that is EVR is a shining example of what a small team can achieve when focused.
SM. |
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Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
196
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 13:54:00 -
[2571] - Quote
I think the point is, that if development time is spent on WiS (and I hope that it is), that it needs to add to the game rather than being another way of doing something we can already do.
An actual market, or shops sound fantastic but on the face of things you can still just do that from a window. If WiS is added, it needs something extra. A new purpose, if you will. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
364
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 14:03:00 -
[2572] - Quote
Just make WIS everything what we cant do now but what we want to do. Doubling the functionalities ist the road to go. We have it already. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
422
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 14:43:00 -
[2573] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Yea, looks really cool... this game will just bleed immersion!
And in doing so CCP will bleed subscribers.... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
50
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 15:03:00 -
[2574] - Quote
I would like to see WiS
But I think before CCP start on that it would be better to fix the Corporation/Alliance Roles & Permissions in conjunction with use of POSes & Outposts first.
It does appear like maybe CCP will design a new Roles & Permissions / POS system separate from the current system then ditch the old code/system and replace it with the new one. At least the new 'POS-type' items in the Rubicon release suggest that may be the case. I say whichever way you want to fix it this should be the primary task. Everything else should be put to one side. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2048
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 16:29:00 -
[2575] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:I would like to see WiS
But I think before CCP start on that it would be better to fix the Corporation/Alliance Roles & Permissions in conjunction with use of POSes & Outposts first.
It does appear like maybe CCP will design a new Roles & Permissions / POS system separate from the current system then ditch the old code/system and replace it with the new one. At least the new 'POS-type' items in the Rubicon release suggest that may be the case. I say whichever way you want to fix it this should be the primary task. Everything else should be put to one side.
WiS can start in very small steps. It is kind of fun how they've bothered to make a plan to add "new space" in small steps but couldn't do for WiS. There's no task more complicated than the one you don't want to do... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2054
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 19:49:00 -
[2576] - Quote
2+º thought: seeing the backlash of the SOMER Ishukone Scorpions giveaway, probably they should had settled it with some NEx items rather than rare ships. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
427
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 22:50:00 -
[2577] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:2+º thought: seeing the backlash of the SOMER Ishukone Scorpions giveaway, probably they should had settled it with some NEx items rather than rare ships.
Or they could have given away some plex as inflating the economy doesn't affect prices allegedly. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Regina Gerze
The Trinity Conglomerate
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 23:59:00 -
[2578] - Quote
And if you screw this up or anything else with it...well, I get new material for my Under the Rugs section xD I LOVE YOU CCP, THANK YOU FOR MORE MATERIAL IN THE FUTURE! |
chaos666wraith
Cyber Chaos Crew
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 02:28:00 -
[2579] - Quote
:WARNING:
Extremely aroused fanboy detected. Possible malicious memory replacement present. Other meatbags are advised to proceed with caution when in contact with this individual. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
807
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 05:43:00 -
[2580] - Quote
Does anyone know if they prototyped the "risky business" type gameplay they originally mentioned for Incarna.
You know, the whole selling boosters and other illegal stuff in bars. I kinda liked that idea. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
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Susiqueta Muir
Bio-Tech Research
39
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 09:02:00 -
[2581] - Quote
Ok, fair enough, wis does need to offer something more than what can be achieved purely through current and ifs interactivity but I do feel its important that there is crossover between the interface types. I'm also concerned that the more activities there are that can only be done in wis (especially isk fountains rather than sinks), the more the die-hard fis players will complain and put a spanner in the works.
Additionally, people waiting x or y feature to be fixed first before new development are kind of missing the point of project development. You can have multiple streams of development running at one time and (as appears now to be the approach taken by ccp based on their devblogs) you release incremental steps across multiple streams/areas/features rather than one fully completed feature in a Big Bang approach. Focussing purely just on one area is not an effective use of resources and more likely to cause problems with the code (and player) base.
Wis then should be new ways to see old stuff to get the interface working first of all, then chuck in some isk sinks, a bit of gambling (how about an observation gallery on the war barges to look down on the dustier (figuratively or literally if you like) and bet on the outcome of matches with view screens to watch the action and then expand to the exploration ideas we've seen bandied about. I'd love to dock up at a sleeper site, send out small sentry drones to fight the anti personnel sleeper defences whilst hacking terminals and getting out with the loot before someone else shows up and pops my ship...
SM. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations Self Sabatoge
1271
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 09:19:00 -
[2582] - Quote
I'm not reading 125 pages to find out, but is this new siphon device just a test to see if we can get avatars to suck in station? I can't wait for the eventual day of players walking around station and doing who knows what. See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1008
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 13:09:00 -
[2583] - Quote
And a thread on their forums welcoming a huge variety of clothing .. actually hoping that there is a large selection that aren't the same 20 items with different color variations. Oh yes, these are also highly addicted to spaceship piloting as eve pilots are but they are not stuck in the same rut for the last 10 years. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
38
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 01:22:00 -
[2584] - Quote
bite the bullet CCP and make this happen just add a little every expansion if you have to or make it one big expansion and be done with it + add character customization (WHERE THE HELL IS MAH PONYTAIL, and the beards man..) |
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force
289
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 02:02:00 -
[2585] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:bite the bullet CCP and make this happen just add a little every expansion if you have to or make it one big expansion and be done with it + add character customization (WHERE THE HELL IS MAH PONYTAIL, and the beards man..)
Beards, that was the first thing i noticed when creating an avatar that peeved me a bit. The distinct lack of beards "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Montevius Williams
The Scope Gallente Federation
614
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 02:05:00 -
[2586] - Quote
I donGÇÖt think CCP knows how to delivery meaningful, Avatar based gameplay in EVE. It seems to me like itGÇÖs something they REALLY want to do, but no one knows where to start.
And I understand the business decision behind saying that you want to focus on FIS space stuff, but it does seem suspicious when you canGÇÖt afford to have a team focus on Avatar based stuff, yet you can allocate a team on Dust and Valkyrie.
I started getting serious about EVE when I saw this video a few years ago where CCP t0rfifrans was talking about making EVE into the GÇ£Ultimate Sci FI SimulatorGÇ¥ and I was hooked from there. Sadly, EVE has yet to get to that point and it wonGÇÖt get to that point if we donGÇÖt have some semblance of Avatar based gameplay.
I was willing to buy the excuse that doing this takes away from Dev time for FIS, but between Dust 514 and EVE Valkyrie in BACK TO BACK years, that excuse just doesnGÇÖt fly anymore.
WeGÇÖre not asking for anything groundbreaking here, but releasing stuff little by little would be great.
"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Flamespar
Woof Club
811
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 03:27:00 -
[2587] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:I donGÇÖt think CCP knows how to delivery meaningful, Avatar based gameplay in EVE. It seems to me like itGÇÖs something they REALLY want to do, but no one knows where to start.
And I understand the business decision behind saying that you want to focus on FIS space stuff, but it does seem suspicious when you canGÇÖt afford to have a team focus on Avatar based stuff, yet you can allocate a team on Dust and Valkyrie.
I started getting serious about EVE when I saw this video a few years ago where CCP t0rfifrans was talking about making EVE into the GÇ£Ultimate Sci FI SimulatorGÇ¥ and I was hooked from there. Sadly, EVE has yet to get to that point and it wonGÇÖt get to that point if we donGÇÖt have some semblance of Avatar based gameplay.
I was willing to buy the excuse that doing this takes away from Dev time for FIS, but between Dust 514 and EVE Valkyrie in BACK TO BACK years, that excuse just doesnGÇÖt fly anymore.
WeGÇÖre not asking for anything groundbreaking here, but releasing stuff little by little would be great.
This guy gets it.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2079
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 06:53:00 -
[2588] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:I donGÇÖt think CCP knows how to delivery meaningful, Avatar based gameplay in EVE. It seems to me like itGÇÖs something they REALLY want to do, but no one knows where to start.
And I understand the business decision behind saying that you want to focus on FIS space stuff, but it does seem suspicious when you canGÇÖt afford to have a team focus on Avatar based stuff, yet you can allocate a team on Dust and Valkyrie.
I started getting serious about EVE when I saw this video a few years ago where CCP t0rfifrans was talking about making EVE into the GÇ£Ultimate Sci FI SimulatorGÇ¥ and I was hooked from there. Sadly, EVE has yet to get to that point and it wonGÇÖt get to that point if we donGÇÖt have some semblance of Avatar based gameplay.
I was willing to buy the excuse that doing this takes away from Dev time for FIS, but between Dust 514 and EVE Valkyrie in BACK TO BACK years, that excuse just doesnGÇÖt fly anymore.
WeGÇÖre not asking for anything groundbreaking here, but releasing stuff little by little would be great.
There's nothing more difficult to do, than that which you don't want to do. Let's check CCP's reasons to not implemnt WiS:
1: it must have meaningful gameplay!
But, we WiSers are being very specific about how we don't mind that such content was only meaningful to us, according to our need for immersion, without a need to force it on FiSers so they stay competitive because it's too "meaningful" to be skipped. Also, how Is Valkyrie meaningful to EVE? And what about trying to make DUST meaningful at all?
2: no more Jesus features!
But, they're implementing a 3 years, 6 expansions Hallelujah Plan in order to add more conquerable space to EVE (that everyone craved albeit the response to the announcement has been null and most players, by any measure, don't play conquer games). Surely WiS could also be implemented in small steps if they just figured something smaller and less ambitious than the derelict exploration prototype.
3: it's not technicaly practical/feasible to add it on the EVE client!
Well, that may be right, or may be not. I wonder what was the purpose of Carbon, then, if now it doesn't allows to add avatar content to the EVE client, let alone can't figure what kind of black magic are doing EVE's competitors when they mix avatars and ships using DirectX 9.0 graphics as X: Rebirth, or an off-the-shelve FPS engine like CryEngine 3 as star Ctizen does.
4: we have a vision to do it in the future!
2013 is the future of 2007, when you talked about the vision of WiS for the first time, so let's take your visions with a pinch of salt, shall we?
5: it may/can/should be done as a separate game!
Then what's the purpose of it? We're here because our capsuleers in EVE had to become real people, there's no point to have avatars if they can't take advantage of our skillpoints, ISK and assets in EVE.
Also, All the woulda-coulda-shouldas / Layin' in the sun / Talkin' 'bout the things / They woulda-coulda-shoulda done... / But all those woulda-coulda-shouldas / All ran away and hid / From one little did.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2063
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 07:30:00 -
[2589] - Quote
Job Valador wrote:Anomaly One wrote:bite the bullet CCP and make this happen just add a little every expansion if you have to or make it one big expansion and be done with it + add character customization (WHERE THE HELL IS MAH PONYTAIL, and the beards man..) Beards, that was the first thing i noticed when creating an avatar that peeved me a bit. The distinct lack of beards
As a strong advocate of beards, I was a little offended that I had been misrepresented in Avatar form. Perhaps we could even have some neck beards for the opposition. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Flamespar
Woof Club
815
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 07:25:00 -
[2590] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:5: it may/can/should be done as a separate game!Then what's the purpose of it? We're here because our capsuleers in EVE had to become real people, there's no point to have avatars if they can't take advantage of our skillpoints, ISK and assets in EVE. Also, All the woulda-coulda-shouldas / Layin' in the sun / Talkin' 'bout the things / They woulda-coulda-shoulda done... / But all those woulda-coulda-shouldas / All ran away and hid / From one little did.
Personally I would be really annoyed if they developed walking in stations as a separate game, as it would mean that I would need 2 subscriptions to play the game I wanted to play.
Which is precisely the reason why CCP will probably do it that way.
Greed is good. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
674
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 09:50:00 -
[2591] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:5: it may/can/should be done as a separate game!Then what's the purpose of it? We're here because our capsuleers in EVE had to become real people, there's no point to have avatars if they can't take advantage of our skillpoints, ISK and assets in EVE. Also, All the woulda-coulda-shouldas / Layin' in the sun / Talkin' 'bout the things / They woulda-coulda-shoulda done... / But all those woulda-coulda-shouldas / All ran away and hid / From one little did. Personally I would be really annoyed if they developed walking in stations as a separate game, as it would mean that I would need 2 subscriptions to play the game I wanted to play. Which is precisely the reason why CCP will probably do it that way. Greed is good.
Lets hoop that will not be the future of eve online. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
187
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 16:43:00 -
[2592] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:And a thread on their forums welcoming a huge variety of clothing .. actually hoping that there is a large selection that aren't the same 20 items with different color variations. Oh yes, these are also highly addicted to spaceship piloting as eve pilots are but they are not stuck in the same rut for the last 10 years.
Oh look! Concept art! We're doomed!
Right, because it's not like more than 50% of concept art making it to the final product is often called a "Victory". At the rate of SC promising everything and all, I wouldn't be surprised if the game was released barebones with promised expansions that eventually become vaporware.
That said, I guess keep cheering Star Citizen. Maybe it'll at least give CCP a poke to just open the floodgates and release all the reskinned clothing items that have been stuck there since Incarna. Just put them in the AUR store for anyone to use - they don't change the game in any way, shape or form and just like it's with PLEX some people will buy them with AUR then sell for ISK. One will get their ISK, the other a cool customization option for said ISK. Cash goes to CCP anyway and everyone's happy.
Come to think of it, the AUR store vanity items look kind of like something below PLEX in terms of cash/ISK exchange. You buy an AUR token exchange it for a vanity item someone else buys - you don't get the full price of a plex out of it (~500m nowadays, give or take) but you don't pay that much in raw cash either.
And let's be honest, there's no such thing as a price limit on looking absolutely badass (Or fabulous, depending on your... preferences, I guess) - I'm certain many billionaires, given something that looks cool for 50-100m wouldn't say no. I mean, sure they don't serve any practical purpose, you can't lose them either (if you did, nobody would really bother...) - they're like cigars for Bender. They make you look cool. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
370
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 17:03:00 -
[2593] - Quote
CCP fixing broken CQ in new build on the test servers will be the indicator that they still care about us, CQ dwellers. If they will leave it, I am leaving mine and moving into the pod PERMANENTLY. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2081
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 18:11:00 -
[2594] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:CCP fixing broken CQ in new build on the test servers will be the indicator that they still care about us, CQ dwellers. If they will leave it, I am leaving mine and moving into the pod PERMANENTLY.
CQ is working fine on the test server for me. It probably has something to do with DX11 support issues. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
196
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 22:40:00 -
[2595] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Oh look! Concept art! We're doomed!
Right, because it's not like more than 50% of concept art making it to the final product is often called a "Victory". .
What I think is worth caling a "Victory" there is not the percentage of that art that will make it into the game or not, but the fact that they actually have some and are showing it to the project supporters. That and having a functional and playable game engine that will be giving life to those assets. (please keep in mind when looking at that link that the the date there is 2013 not 2007, the company showcasing the concept is not CCP and the authors are not making some kind of Future Pie in the SkyGäó promiss). |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 03:21:00 -
[2596] - Quote
You guys think they are capable to deliver any avatar content? CCP is spreading their efforts and devs thin among so many projects (even Blizzard who is significantly richer has less stuff going on at the same time) that at this development rate not even next generation of capsuleers(in real life-assuming Eve even lasts this long) will get to try ambulation. |
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
320
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 03:22:00 -
[2597] - Quote
Latest patch notes...
Quote:New players will be placed either in the Captain's Quarters or in the hangar when starting into the game.
Sounds like they may actually be interested in what retains customers. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2088
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 06:56:00 -
[2598] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Latest patch notes... Quote:New players will be placed either in the Captain's Quarters or in the hangar when starting into the game. Sounds like they may actually be interested in what retains customers.
Full note is:
Quote:New players will be placed either in the Captain's Quarters or in the hangar when starting into the game. This will help researching the impact of the start location for new players.
And it translates as:
Quote:New players will be placed either in the Captain's Quarters or in the hangar when starting into the game. This will help researching wether the CQ makes them quit in shocked disappointment so we better get rid of it altogether.
Probably they'll find out that the answer is "yes" and so they will get rid of the CQ. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Flamespar
Woof Club
817
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 07:02:00 -
[2599] - Quote
It'll be interesting to see if it has a discernible effect given that one of the original intentions of the CQ was to start new players in an environment in which they were familiar. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 07:04:00 -
[2600] - Quote
I bet this will make most new players run to the forums and ask "how do I open the door ?" |
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Flamespar
Woof Club
817
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 07:14:00 -
[2601] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:I bet this will make most new players run to the forums and ask "how do I open the door ?"
Lol. I wonder if they will be tracking the number of times players click on the door. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
187
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 08:38:00 -
[2602] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Trii Seo wrote:Oh look! Concept art! We're doomed!
Right, because it's not like more than 50% of concept art making it to the final product is often called a "Victory". . What I think is worth caling a "Victory" there is not the percentage of that art that will make it into the game or not, but the fact that they actually have some and are showing it to the project supporters. That and having a functional and playable game engine that will be giving life to those assets. (please keep in mind when looking at that link that the the date there is 2013 not 2007, the company showcasing the concept is not CCP and the authors are not making some kind of Future Pie in the SkyGäó promise).
I'd be more, if at all, impressed by renders and animation demonstrations.
For each concept art:
- A 3D modeller has to build an optimized mesh of said model - He has to rig it for animation - A texture artist has to make it good looking, compensating for the lack of polygon complexity.
Now, we don't even know how functional said engine is and how will it be used. CARBON used by EVE is impressive in the character department, but unused due to dev focus being elsewhere. Not to mention the main author of the whole SC thing has Pie in the Sky Promising Specialization trained to 5.
Each of those people need to be paid, and - granted - they got a crapton of money from backers, but the backers didn't give them time. Developing everything takes time. If SC focuses on shiney "FISH TANK!" "CLOTHING!", I'll just put my sunglasses on, order a Margharitta and get a front row seat on its specular crash event.
And, of course, I'll stick with CCP which (despite making shoddy community decisions when attempting to reward people for contributing to said community) is focusing on core gameplay experience: spaceships. Each iteration they do their best to make spaceships more and more fun, giving you a reason to log in and play the damn game.
Visuals and nifty addons can only spice up an existing, solid product. CCP learned that lesson in Incarna and made a good decision: core gameplay before anything else. Then they made another good pick by releasing some of the NEX items for much lower prices - and we already can see a lot of people making use of them. Those who don't buy them for AUR, buy them for ISK.
Hell, even the damned monocle became something of a wealth status symbol. "HEY LOOK I'M SO RICH I CAN THROW A BILLION INTO THE SHITTER HA-HA!". I'll kind of repeat myself saying - CCP should flip the "enabled" tags on all other NEX things and just see what players do with them. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2084
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 10:20:00 -
[2603] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: And, of course, I'll stick with CCP which (despite making shoddy community decisions when attempting to reward people for contributing to said community) is focusing on core gameplay experience: spaceships. Each iteration they do their best to make spaceships more and more fun, giving you a reason to log in and play the damn game.
Visuals and nifty addons can only spice up an existing, solid product. CCP learned that lesson in Incarna and made a good decision: core gameplay before anything else. Then they made another good pick by releasing some of the NEX items for much lower prices - and we already can see a lot of people making use of them. Those who don't buy them for AUR, buy them for ISK.
Hell, even the damned monocle became something of a wealth status symbol. "HEY LOOK I'M SO RICH I CAN THROW A BILLION INTO THE SHITTER HA-HA!". I'll kind of repeat myself saying - CCP should flip the "enabled" tags on all other NEX things and just see what players do with them.
Agreed, they should release the other clothing items that are "awaiting a pricing structure". As for CCP focusing on core game play, I am glad and I am happy with the changes that are being made. But, I'm not happy with the quantity of those changes.
It feels like CCP have assigned Eve a skeleton crew, and that Eve is now pulling the weight of one dying FPS, two undeveloped games and a mobile app that no one will use. Most developers know better than to be running that many projects when only one of them is actually profitable.
We could be having expansions now that are the same as they are but with "extra" iteration on Avatar content each time. They should put the entire Valkyrie team onto Eve again until WoD is done or Dust is pulling it's weight financially and then everyone could be happy. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
676
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 10:23:00 -
[2604] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:You guys think they are capable to deliver any avatar content? CCP is spreading their efforts and devs thin among so many projects (even Blizzard who is significantly richer has less stuff going on at the same time) that at this development rate not even next generation of capsuleers(in real life-assuming Eve even lasts this long) will get to try ambulation.
^ This explain where the problem is. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
188
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 12:45:00 -
[2605] - Quote
I don't think EVE has a skeleton crew working on it. I actually think CCP is doing the thing it has always done best.
"Smile and wave, boys!"
They're cooking something up, behind the charming CSM ("Let's ignore the 'you're useless' booing, this is gonna ROCK!") and other announcements. They threw some (Fozzie, Rise) to the wolves with rebalance and new ships, accidentally made a scandal and now nobody's talking about "What's CCP doing behind the curtains?".
If I had to go with a hunch, recoding POS/Sov mechanics. POS system is old, really old - it'd take months to rework it and I bet that's where their code monkeys are at. They're just not telling us because people would get excited for a revamp coming, at best, in the summer expansion.
They'd overhype themselves for a revamp that's functional and good, expecting second coming and being disappointed regardless of how awesome said rework is.
There, I've seen the truth. Now watch my killboard, if you see CCP ganking me - you'll know I was right! Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2088
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 13:10:00 -
[2606] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It'll be interesting to see if it has a discernible effect given that one of the original intentions of the CQ was to start new players in an environment in which they were familiar.
Must be noted that currnetly all characters start at the CQ by defect. And if they kenw where are the forums, surely they would be asking for "how to open the door". The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
52
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 14:15:00 -
[2607] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote: I'm not reading 125 pages to find out, but is this new siphon device just a test to see if we can get avatars to suck in station? I can't wait for the eventual day of players walking around station and doing who knows what.
Regarding the new anchorable items such as the new siphon device etc I get the feeling this may be the beginning of a process to fix POSes and the roles & permissions used to control them. ie Make a whole new system separate from the one we currently use then remove the current one and slot in the new. I have absolutely no idea how these things are programmed though so I daresay that is not easy or even possible. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
630
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 15:53:00 -
[2608] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It'll be interesting to see if it has a discernible effect given that one of the original intentions of the CQ was to start new players in an environment in which they were familiar.
Yes.
A major barrier for new players apporaching EVE is just the strife to identify with the character and feel it as unique. This in EVE requires a different effort and new players are not used to this; the identification player -> avatar sounds more natural for newcomers in respect of player -> spaceship; it's a solid standard in the MMORPG culture and is a equirement for the imemrsion feeling MMORPG players expect in respect of games like WoT and so on where is not a need.
The idea behind CQ (as first element of WiS) was just to fill this gap. Also, the idea for CQ was to configure them as content delivery to smooth the famous EVE learning curve; as to say "make people to get used to EVE, to learn some basic, to discover gameplay opportunities trough ingame interactions instead of forcing them to spend days on some PDF, Excell sheet or IRC channel.
This idea behind CQ was good but of course needed to be progressively extended and linked to a proper WiS envinroment to work properly.
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
370
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 16:05:00 -
[2609] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: Hell, even the damned monocle became something of a wealth status symbol. "HEY LOOK I'M SO RICH I CAN THROW A BILLION INTO THE SHITTER HA-HA!". I'll kind of repeat myself saying - CCP should flip the "enabled" tags on all other NEX things and just see what players do with them.
What do you do with clothes?
They will not "enable" it for everyone to buy with aurum, it will be the "special occasion" clothing for special occasions, like the stuff that was shipped with 10 years collectors edition. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
189
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 16:08:00 -
[2610] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Flamespar wrote:It'll be interesting to see if it has a discernible effect given that one of the original intentions of the CQ was to start new players in an environment in which they were familiar. Yes. A major barrier for new players apporaching EVE is just the strife to identify with the character and feel it as unique. This in EVE requires a different effort and new players are not used to this; the identification player -> avatar sounds more natural for newcomers in respect of player -> spaceship; it's a solid standard in the MMORPG culture and is a equirement for the imemrsion feeling MMORPG players expect in respect of games like WoT and so on where is not a need. The idea behind CQ (as first element of WiS) was just to fill this gap. Also, the idea for CQ was to configure them as content delivery to smooth the famous EVE learning curve; as to say "make people to get used to EVE, to learn some basic, to discover gameplay opportunities trough ingame interactions instead of forcing them to spend days on some PDF, Excell sheet or IRC channel. This idea behind CQ was good but of course needed to be progressively extended and linked to a proper WiS envinroment to work properly.
Separating character from spaceship also serves as a good reminder that you are not, in fact, your ship. A ship and to some extent your pod are shells - expendable tools you will lose in your career.
Dying and returning to your environment without any penalties (sides from losing your ship/implants - but you are still alive. It's still the same evil you, just in a new 'shell') seems to reinforce that rather nicely. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
|
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
277
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 16:37:00 -
[2611] - Quote
The new cybernetic arm thing indicates someone's still playing with WiS, even if it's just character creator stuff. So that's nice.
I'm confused why some of you are pro-WiS but anti-DUST/Valkyrie. WiS is the perfect glue to tie all three properties together. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2085
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 16:57:00 -
[2612] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:The new cybernetic arm thing indicates someone's still playing with WiS, even if it's just character creator stuff. So that's nice.
I'm confused why some of you are pro-WiS but anti-DUST/Valkyrie. WiS is the perfect glue to tie all three properties together.
"Mystery Code holders will be receiving the exclusive GÇÿPhancaGÇÖ Cybernetic Arm to sport on their characters."
Although I have been tempted by the Collectors edition, I doubt I will pay out.
As for being anti-dust/Valkyrie. I don't think anyone is specifically anti them. I would love to have Dust for PC for example, and I will get Valkyrie when it comes out for sure. What I am against is CCP spreading themselves too thin, which is what they are doing. Especially as the only one of their other projects that has actually been released (Dust) doesn't yet appear to be pulling it's weight. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
277
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 17:03:00 -
[2613] - Quote
We don't have numbers for how much DUST rakes in, but people pay between $20-60 a month to be fully boosted. A lot less people do it, no doubt, but those that do are giving CCP more money per user than EVE players are.
They indicated the cybernetic arm, like the tattoos, will eventually have non-exclusive variants released later. They want to really prop up the CE, so they seem to be giving it early access to a bunch of things coming later. That being said, you'll be able to ISK buy them for sure, Collector's Edition owners who don't care about avatars or won't use the arm.
I think CCP's trying to figure out how to not be Rovio. Angry Birds is great, but Rovio's a one-trick pony. They've shown an inability to generate success with additional products. A game studio has to expand to survive. Valkyrie is something they surely weren't planning for. But they had to capitalize on the attention and awards they got from showing the tech demo. Though apparently now Elite Dangerous is going to support Oculus too, so CCP better be prepared to compete there. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2085
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 17:18:00 -
[2614] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:We don't have numbers for how much DUST rakes in, but people pay between $20-60 a month to be fully boosted. A lot less people do it, no doubt, but those that do are giving CCP more money per user than EVE players are.
http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust
$20-60 isn't much when there are so few people using the product. Takes a look at the active numbers of player, only a tiny portion of those will be paying. That's how free to play games work. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
190
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 17:24:00 -
[2615] - Quote
They mentioned other models of this arm thing being made available later to players, so yeah - they're working on addons.
And good, really - the more scifi/uniqueness you can put in the part other players can see (your portrait) is neat, especially when it's not done at a huge cost of the rest of the game.
That said, actual WiS can wait until the spaceship game is sorted and amazing, even more amazing than it is now. It has issues that need to be fixed, major issues. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
278
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 18:35:00 -
[2616] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:That said, actual WiS can wait until the spaceship game is sorted and amazing, even more amazing than it is now. It has issues that need to be fixed, major issues.
It really can't wait. Spaceship gameplay is fine. They've wasted the last three expansions doing nothing but minor tweaks to it. Meanwhile, they have multiple incoming games producing more elaborate products that are directly competing with them. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
196
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 23:18:00 -
[2617] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:You guys think they are capable to deliver any avatar content?
We don't have to think or ImagineGäó. There is already avatar content even in the first module of the game (Hangar module). Back he game, download it and see for yourself.
Trii Seo wrote: I'd be more, if at all, impressed by renders and animation demonstrations.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13310-Citizen-Con-2013-Live-Stream
CitizenCon demonstration going live in 10 minutes. Tune in and check it out. |
Rain6637
Team Evil
1737
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 00:08:00 -
[2618] - Quote
did I miss it Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 02:11:00 -
[2619] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Thetabetalpha wrote:You guys think they are capable to deliver any avatar content?
We don't have to think or ImagineGäó. There is already avatar content even in the first module of the game (Hangar module). Back the game, download it and see for yourself. I was talking about CCP. Personally, I do not believe CCP is either capable or willing to deliver avatar content. They got projects all over the place, they reinvent all over the place. Just look at the "UI" in captains quarters. Character movement controls feel awkward.
As far as eve is all about ships goes - how about that drone UI. So it took them 10 years to add that drag and drop function for it. Well, thanks a lot, now we'll have to wait another 10 to get an iteration and hopefully get actual drone UI?
Wake up people.. "Meaningful avatar gameplay" (SoonGäó)Gäó |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
783
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 02:30:00 -
[2620] - Quote
My personal belief comes down to three things:
1) First, yes, they have to whip the game they are actually shipping into shape. That doesn't just mean fixing the broken stuff, it means getting people excited again. Odyssey was a meh attempt at that. I hope subsequent releases are more successful.
2) CCP has active, and highly sophisticated, avatar gameplay development going on. My hunch is that EVE will see WiS once WoD is released and has been out long enough to shake the worst bugs out. Say, in three years or so.
3) Avatars are really, really hard. The trolls who go on about emoting and /dancing are irritating, but there is a real point there, which is that most games squander all the potential expressiveness of their players' avatars in a few dozen lazy, silly, exaggerated animations. That's because making a human act human is incredibly difficult. The facial expressions are individual and subtle. Everything from posture to gait to how dilated the pupils are communicates something. The most powerful reactions are the immediate, involuntary ones that /emotes, as relatively slow reactions, can't possibly mimic. Then there's the problem of voices, and realistic voice communication. How far does your voice carry? How well do you control that? You can go deep into the weeds if you want to. If CCP learned anything from Incarna, it was that avatars aren't a feature like wormholes or POSes. They're absolutely huge if you want to do them right--and all evidence points to the conclusion that CCP wants to do them right. I note that Sony has a facial expression translator for EQNext, which is very cool, but of course the facial expressions are caricatured and then rendered onto cartoons. CCP will not be satisfied with that.
Meanwhile, they're just now beginning to experiment with "expressions" on ships, via the Marauders (yes, Rorqual--but they showed a Crucifier model at Fanfest that did something similar, so this isn't just about siege or bastion modes). I think it would interesting to make them more expressive--to have them, for instance, reveal (or retract) their guns, power their shields, have the lights flash and turn red when the ship enters hull, and otherwise have some form of visual communication. It wouldn't be a huge, banner feature, because many people play EVE as a 3D-projected 2D tile game with an ancillary spreadsheet, but for the people who don't it would be a nice extra touch. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
|
Loco Kamikaze
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1486
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 06:51:00 -
[2621] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote: 2) CCP has active, and highly sophisticated, avatar gameplay development going on. My hunch is that EVE will see WiS once WoD is released and has been out long enough to shake the worst bugs out. Say, in three years or so.
or: if there's a team avatar why aren't they doing avatar stuff?
pretty sure i'd be willing to put my life on hold and work for peanuts at CCP.... if I had the skills. but I do not. (OJT?)
also fairly confident avatar gameplay will be do-or-die for EVE, but I won't guess whether that means it will or won't. and I don't have a feeling about if it does or doesn't.
I took a good look at why I enjoy EVE, and it's basically the enjoyment I find while it keeps me indoors (instead of doing pointless, wasteful things that cost time and money and speeding on the way). and I asked myself if it has to be EVE and the answer is no.
sub fees were for those months I already played, and there is always the possibility of the servers undergoing a permanent downtime. that's just how it has to be. walk away from it as if it was farmville.
so there's a constant question of -why- haven't those things happened, that would bolster subs and faith in EVE and its future.
cuz you see, imo EVR set a precedent for what can be accomplished by a handful of inspired, skilled people. I'm not interested in EVR as much as dismounted (militaryspeak for getting out of your vehicle) exploration, which is something that be integrated, become another huge SP sink, and can have inventory that is cross-capable with DUST. (market integration, maybe?)
if they're not doing dismounted explo, then what are they doing? gimme something, cuz the reason for secrecy is out the window--the other guy is telling the world about everything they're doing, and gaining people's confidence.
I don't understand the point of this thread in the first place, really. has anyone stated a new idea, something they didn't know about already |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
190
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 07:49:00 -
[2622] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Trii Seo wrote:That said, actual WiS can wait until the spaceship game is sorted and amazing, even more amazing than it is now. It has issues that need to be fixed, major issues. It really can't wait. Spaceship gameplay is fine. They've wasted the last three expansions doing nothing but minor tweaks to it. Meanwhile, they have multiple incoming games producing more elaborate products that are directly competing with them.
- Spaceship gameplay is fine on a baseline combat content level. They've done a good job rebalancing T1, they've still got T2s and pirate ships to deal with.
- Metagame is not fine. Nullsec is becoming rapidly stagnant and it is not, as much as a lot of people would love to believe, "lol goons killing 0.0". It is a result of flawed game mechanics (SOV) and repeated nerfs to 0.0 income that caused sov-space to be nearly worthless.
I don't think games like SC would compete. I can see myself playing a game like Star Citizen, the same way i played Freelancer or Freespace and Freespace 2 (check out the Freespace SCP thingie by the way people, it's downright amazing what they've done to that old game) - spaceships pew pew, you do it for a while, get bored, come back to EVE.
Because in the end, out there, is always EVE. It ticks in the background, a game where a kill can be more than a worthless number on your killcount. Where loss is meaningful in many ways, and where hopes and dreams can fall to the relentless march of a thousand pilots. It falls quiet until a ping pops up, your coalition marches to a new war. You're needed - your tackling Slasher, your black ops, your battleship, logi or carrier.
What New Eden is now was created by hundreds of players that flew through those systems in the past. The likes of Vile Rat, whose actions shaped the political landscape that exists today or The Mittani who to some is the worst being to ever visit the cluster and to others a leader that sets a new course and select a new enemy to be crushed by the Coalition. It's a game that has a lore aside from its own lore - violent history of wars, riots and great heists.
StarCitizen promises... vague "revolution", promises to be the next BIG THING. I don't tihnk we'll see it in its full potential until goons descend upon it and break it to pieces to make their mark. Until someone tries to fight them, sparking a year-long holy war that would culiminate in a collapse that is still remembered after many years.
I think, to be honest, in a game where chat channels and external voice comms are as far as interaction goes (good, it's efficient) what we need now is more triggers to drive conflict not "shiney shiney WiS". Nobody ever started a war over how ugly was the mug of the other side. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Anu Vare
Project Freelancer II Nanite Empire
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 09:58:00 -
[2623] - Quote
YES YES YES YES YES
:)
I can't stress enough how awesome it would be if EVE were not just a spaceship game but a whole sci-fi universe simulation.
Ultimately I'd love to see the game be 50% space and 50% first person. Also I think this would attract an entirely new player base that is interested in a good first person sci-fi game. (something that I think the market has largely failed to provide)
If CCP expanded EVE into avatar based content significantly I think it could take off and make CCP a ton of money.
Just my 2 cents :)
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1019
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 10:02:00 -
[2624] - Quote
Unlike CCP, Chris Roberts would not let anyone to destroy his masterpiece. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2090
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 10:40:00 -
[2625] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: what we need now is more triggers to drive conflict not "shiney shiney WiS". Nobody ever started a war over how ugly was the mug of the other side.
Your statement assumed the existence of "shiney shiney WiS" without conflict. This thread is about WiS that would generate conflict, and so this really doesn't make a great deal of sense on your part.
On top of that, although we do need more balanced conflict drivers, what you fail to realize is that the vast majority of the player base don't give a **** about conflict drivers. Most of them are high sec carebears. Now, I am not saying we should pander specifically to them, but we certainly shouldn't be pandering specifically to the nullbears when they are such an insignificant proportion of the player base. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
191
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 10:41:00 -
[2626] - Quote
We can't forget what is EVE in its core - ruthless, cold sandbox universe that will take your cookie and run away laughing as you cry.
To get a cookie, you'll have to endure a road that will turn your innocent, newbie soul into that of a grizzled veteran. You will endure months of training, losses, being beaten by those who outmatch you by years of experience. You will not be rewarded by just logging in or paying - you will log in for your daily dose of a punch to the face.
But when you finally find the guy that stole your cookie and claim it through cunning or sheer superiority of force, it will taste delicious.
So delicious you will want more and set yourself a new goal. We all have our cookie we work towards to achieve.
From the responses to SC it seems like people want EVE just without murderers, theives, scammers and ruthless warlords that burn regions without care for the tears of the owner. Which means - without what drives EVE's content. Without it, this game would become a soulless tactical space game.
As for the crowd WiS would bring... I doubt it'd last long. Many would join the forum whining and quit. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Flamespar
Woof Club
821
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 10:47:00 -
[2627] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: what we need now is more triggers to drive conflict not "shiney shiney WiS". Nobody ever started a war over how ugly was the mug of the other side.
Shooting them in the face though.
Seriously I want them to cry, beg, wet their pants, begging me not to shoot because I caught them out of their pod.
It'd be interesting to see how cocky some players would be if they didn't have their spaceships to protect them. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
191
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 11:02:00 -
[2628] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Trii Seo wrote: what we need now is more triggers to drive conflict not "shiney shiney WiS". Nobody ever started a war over how ugly was the mug of the other side. Shooting them in the face though. Seriously I want them to cry, beg, wet their pants, begging me not to shoot because I caught them out of their pod. It'd be interesting to see how cocky some players would be if they didn't have their spaceships to protect them.
I'm guessing about the same, if they can afford a shiney ship they can afford mercs and a machinegun.
I'm curious, is CCP even monitoring those threads? They seem awfully enigmatic as of late... I mean, you know, actually reading through all this crap inside. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
677
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 11:24:00 -
[2629] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:raven666wings wrote:Thetabetalpha wrote:You guys think they are capable to deliver any avatar content?
We don't have to think or ImagineGäó. There is already avatar content even in the first module of the game (Hangar module). Back the game, download it and see for yourself. I was talking about CCP. Personally, I do not believe CCP is either capable or willing to deliver avatar content. They got projects all over the place, they reinvent all over the place. Just look at the "UI" in captains quarters. Character movement controls feel awkward. As far as eve is all about ships goes - how about that drone UI. So it took them 10 years to add that drag and drop function for it. Well, thanks a lot, now we'll have to wait another 10 to get an iteration and hopefully get actual drone UI? Wake up people.. "Meaningful avatar gameplay" (SoonGäó)Gäó
I think that's correct the have just to many project the are working one. The update the game "with here and there stuff" if the just focus on 1 area of the game perhaps the can finish that and move on.. On the next project. No instead people are complaining about there is no "essential update" more ships bug fixs visual effects upgrades. And some new core updates or fixses. That's the problem. Every one want something differed in this game. And CCP is working also on everything to try to keep them happy. This is where all the problem is. If the lose this project. "example more ship" and bug fixs here and there. I don`t think people will like that. If the focus to hard on WiS the other people are complaining. Its always people "A" says this and people "B" says that. So CCP try to keep both of them happy. And here is the problem.... |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
897
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 11:56:00 -
[2630] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:EVE in its core - ruthless, cold sandbox universe
If you check polls in SC - most (2/3) players want exploration, not PvP. Casuals provide most money for games and they don't care if game is for hardcore PvPers or not - they'll go to the game where they'll feel more comfortable. There are 5 sandbox games in development, with its "no content for you, go PvP" development doctrine EVE will lose subscribers - the only questions are how many and how to minimize losses? Obvious answer - better WiS functionality surely won't hurt because besides gameplay it will provide much more socialization opportunities than local chat from 90s. |
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2094
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 12:04:00 -
[2631] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Trii Seo wrote:EVE in its core - ruthless, cold sandbox universe If you check polls in SC - most (2/3) players want exploration, not PvP. Casuals provide most money for games and they don't care if game is for hardcore PvPers or not - they'll go to the game where they'll feel more comfortable. There are 5 sandbox games in development, with its "no content for you, go PvP" development doctrine EVE will lose subscribers - the only questions are how many and how to minimize losses? Obvious answer - better WiS functionality surely won't hurt because besides gameplay it will provide much more socialization opportunities than local chat from 90s.
A local chat which they should get rid of, if you ask me. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2097
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 13:26:00 -
[2632] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Trii Seo wrote:EVE in its core - ruthless, cold sandbox universe If you check polls in SC - most (2/3) players want exploration, not PvP. Casuals provide most money for games and they don't care if game is for hardcore PvPers or not - they'll go to the game where they'll feel more comfortable. There are 5 sandbox games in development, with its "no content for you, go PvP" development doctrine EVE will lose subscribers - the only questions are how many and how to minimize losses? Obvious answer - better WiS functionality surely won't hurt because besides gameplay it will provide much more socialization opportunities than local chat from 90s.
Well, CCP tries to turn exploration into something big, adding NewSpace (TM), but obviously they don't get that the need to succeed in PvP before you as much as have a chance to earn any profit from EVE is plain driving players away BEFORE they get a taste of the rewards.
It's like:
Hisec content: go there, get stupid cookie. All other content: go there, learn to defeat bears barehanded, get slightly nicer cookie.
The barrier of learning to PvP makes most of EVE space useless. Some players will not PvP, others will just fail at PvP, others will join the wrong corporation (like, anyoen who fought CFC the last two years), and many just didn't signed in because of PvP (a mere 74% last time CCP released data).
So, what's left? Stuff that doesn't requires PvP (industry, trading), and the blank sheet of WiS content, whcih can be written and drawn in any way.
EVE's success has been to find a niche within a niche of people who like EVE's PvP. but those guys don't pay the bills to 550 guys in Iceland, the USA and China. In order to just stay, not grow, just stay, CCP needs to draw in people from larger niches, and do it before someone else grabs those niches.
And that can't be done with more of the same. Something new is needed. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
282
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 14:02:00 -
[2633] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:- Spaceship gameplay is fine on a baseline combat content level. They've done a good job rebalancing T1, they've still got T2s and pirate ships to deal with.
There really shouldn't be any overlap between people changing spreadsheet numbers on balance, and people developing avatar gameplay. There's no reason there can't be both going on at the same time. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 14:31:00 -
[2634] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Trii Seo wrote:- Spaceship gameplay is fine on a baseline combat content level. They've done a good job rebalancing T1, they've still got T2s and pirate ships to deal with. There really shouldn't be any overlap between people changing spreadsheet numbers on balance, and people developing avatar gameplay. There's no reason there can't be both going on at the same time.
You're right. The rest is likely busy looking into POSes and Sovereignity, things that are among the foundation of conflict in this game.
Here's the thing: games condition you to fight the bear. In a sandbox, you don't need to fight the bear.
Outsmart the bear. Run from the bear. Hide from the bear. If you don't feel stupid, reckless or just plain lack the testicular fortitude along with a shotgun - don't fight the bear.
Hell, talk to the bear. It turns out the bear is not a dumb bear - it's a member of Bears United, a corporation of unionized exploring bears that wish and have the power to contain local resources to themselves. Befriend the bear, join him and his friends and use the newfound alliance to build up your own fortune.
What would come next? Would you betray the bears, steal their riches and run? Would you eventually, through resourcefulness and discovered talent for leadership become the Chief Bear, leading the Bears to join a massive alliance and march to war, carving a constellation of 0.0 space for themselves?
Of course, this would require you to get out of a restraining mindset. Because anyone who does PvP is clearly a hardcore no-lifey ganking bastard that has all skills to 5 and billions of ISK to boot. Because it's bad to be bad. Because good and evil exist, or matter. It would require interacting with others.
Or, maybe you go a different way. You die. You wake up and swear to get revenge on the damned Bear. You get your skills to 5. You scam people out of money to get the billions. You learn to pvp alone, against the numbers and when the time comes you return and smack him down barehanded. By that time you're probably someone whom people recognize and dock when he enters local.
Either way, you just went through a story arc of your own, designed by events that happened to you and driven by a goal you found as your own. And it won't just end here.
If that "2/3 Casuals that want exploration" and "74% that didn't sign on due to PvP" had their say, we'd probably never hear many of the stories that made EVE itself. Everyone who ever lived outside of hisec has a story to tell, even more than one. You can have one too - just dare to be bold, as one trailer said. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
367
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 15:00:00 -
[2635] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:We can't forget what is EVE in its core - ruthless, cold sandbox universe that will take your cookie and run away laughing as you cry. Unfortunately, CCP themselves have been making the universe a gentler, warmer place to idle in the sunshine.
- The most bluntly obvious change must have been a toggle safety switch so players will not accidentally harm another player.
- Exploration went from a skill intensive, highly random chance, and a bit of luck to succeed to "Hey look here - take the cookie!" just so everyone can have a cookie instead of seeking them out.
- Learning skills: just another skill that would have a long term benefit, but since it was labelled as a "grind" and players wanted the meat and potatoes of the game _now_, CCP gifted everyone the benefit so cookies for everyone!
- Miners getting destroyed left, right, and center so instead of them taking it upon themselves to tank their ships and loose a bit of gain per cycle, enough complaining had CCP tank their ships for them.
- When I first started, there was a corporation named Privateers that had multiple war declarations against many opponents. Enough complaining later, CCP revised the costs to make it worse per subsequent declaration.
- Skill training: "Yes, you used to train to level five to unlock a new set of higher ended skills. So to ease that burden, we're reducing the requirements to level four, or level one." More gorging on cookies here...
- Warning labels: "Are you really, really sure you want to enter this low security area? Concord can not save you and you may not survive and you will then have a bad day. You would not want to have a bad day, so reconsider, please?"
- And of course, human nature to drift towards a min / max ideal path while everything you may encounter on the way will be spelled out. So CCP offered attribute redistribution and does nothing to shake up the status quo of missions and that ilk.
So cookies back in the "good old days" tasted better than the stale ones of today.
Sorry for going off-topic in this thread. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2107
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 15:09:00 -
[2636] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:The rest is likely busy looking into POSes and Sovereignity, things that are among the foundation of conflict in this game.
....Stuff about how hardcore Eve is.
Sorry, I can't help but think having to leave your ship, risk Death by other capsuleers inside or someone stealing your ship whilst your inside or people waiting for you when you come out... etc... is infinitely more hardcore than sov grind or structure bashing.
Imagine, you go in to look for things and when you get back you find that your ship has been stolen or destroyed and the only way to leave this place is to put a bullet in the back of your skull and clone jump back to station. Sorry, but shooting POSes with your friends and your ship reimbursement scheme seems a lot more jovial or carebear if you ask me.
You seem to imply with ever post that WiS can't be hardcore when the existence of this very thread is evidence to the contrary. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 15:17:00 -
[2637] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Trii Seo wrote:We can't forget what is EVE in its core - ruthless, cold sandbox universe that will take your cookie and run away laughing as you cry. Unfortunately, CCP themselves have been making the universe a gentler, warmer place to idle in the sunshine. - The most bluntly obvious change must have been a toggle safety switch so players will not accidentally harm another player. - Exploration went from a skill intensive, highly random chance, and a bit of luck to succeed to "Hey look here - take the cookie!" just so everyone can have a cookie instead of seeking them out. - Learning skills: just another skill that would have a long term benefit, but since it was labelled as a "grind" and players wanted the meat and potatoes of the game _now_, CCP gifted everyone the benefit so cookies for everyone! - Miners getting destroyed left, right, and center so instead of them taking it upon themselves to tank their ships and loose a bit of gain per cycle, enough complaining had CCP tank their ships for them. - When I first started, there was a corporation named Privateers that had multiple war declarations against many opponents. Enough complaining later, CCP revised the costs to make it worse per subsequent declaration. - Skill training: "Yes, you used to train to level five to unlock a new set of higher ended skills. So to ease that burden, we're reducing the requirements to level four, or level one." More gorging on cookies here... - Warning labels: "Are you really, really sure you want to enter this low security area? Concord can not save you and you may not survive and you will then have a bad day. You would not want to have a bad day, so reconsider, please?" - And of course, human nature to drift towards a min / max ideal path while everything you may encounter on the way will be spelled out. So CCP offered attribute redistribution and does nothing to shake up the status quo of missions and that ilk. So cookies back in the "good old days" tasted better than the stale ones of today. Sorry for going off-topic in this thread.
Well both yes and no:
- Safety toggle is a double-edged sword I'm afraid. I bet it saved a few drunk people that almost opened fire in hisec. And plenty of stupid carebears still get concordokkened.
- Both yes and no but kind of agree on it being way too easy.
- Oh hells no, learning skills to learn other skills faster was a terribad idea. +implants are bad as they are.
- They still die to a single catalyst.
- And now Whores in Space decs everything they feel like and camps trade hubs.
- Same as #1 really. It's not a bad warning, you don't want people to step right into a gatecamp, get traumatized for life and scream on the forums why weren't they helped by CONCORD. Better tell them BEFORE they go.
- Minmaxers gonna minmax.
There are some things that make life 'safer', insurance nerf, concord response time decrease, ability to pod suspects in hisec... yeah list goes on.
But hey, we're offtoping hard here so let's get back on track before ISD swings by with a cease&desist.
Spaceship content > meta content > WiS content. Give us means to produce stories and content first.
Then the ability to look cool. Cooler, actually - you can make us look cool by unlocking the existing items. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 15:30:00 -
[2638] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Trii Seo wrote:The rest is likely busy looking into POSes and Sovereignity, things that are among the foundation of conflict in this game.
....Stuff about how hardcore Eve is. Sorry, I can't help but think having to leave your ship, risk Death by other capsuleers inside or someone stealing your ship whilst your inside or people waiting for you when you come out... etc... is infinitely more hardcore than sov grind or structure bashing. Imagine, you go in to look for things and when you get back you find that your ship has been stolen or destroyed and the only way to leave this place is to put a bullet in the back of your skull and clone jump back to station. Sorry, but shooting POSes with your friends and your ship reimbursement scheme seems a lot more jovial or carebear if you ask me. You seem to imply with ever post that WiS can't be hardcore when the existence of this very thread is evidence to the contrary.
Imagine I'm not that guy. Imagine I'm the man that preys on a ship you'd abandon. Would you abandon a shiney T3? No - you'd abandon a shuttle. You also probably would roll a npc corp alt to spawn a noobship as a free ride home if you ever got stranded and never venture out of safe space in fear of actually getting stranded for good.
That is if anyone would actually bother stranding you in the first place... they might for kicks, but what's it worth?
And you seem to imply all of 0.0's lovely warfare is composed out of structure shoots with SRP. Trust me, a lot of pilots wouldn't be flying null alliance colours if it was solely this.
A structure bash can turn sour with one cyno on grid. A fleet can vanish in one bombing run, and you may die because the FC you trusted to keep you safe made a mistake and the fleet was destroyed.
You may fight and die for a flag and in the end find out that the warchest is empty. Your "SRP" for ships you bought alone will never come, it's backed up and there's no ISK left to pay it back. The jump freighter service bailed from the crumbling alliance you fought for, taking with itself your belongings they were supposed to move to a new staging point.
Death is irrelevant. A capsuleer's body and ship are merely shells. Material loss - is. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2107
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 16:01:00 -
[2639] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: Imagine I'm not that guy. Imagine I'm the man that preys on a ship you'd abandon. Would you abandon a shiney T3? No - you'd abandon a shuttle. You also probably would roll a npc corp alt to spawn a noobship as a free ride home if you ever got stranded and never venture out of safe space in fear of actually getting stranded for good.
That is if anyone would actually bother stranding you in the first place... they might for kicks, but what's it worth?
Most PvP is done for kicks, it's not profitable even when you have an efficiency as high as mine. Besides, how is that any different to anything else in Eve? Also, if the best sites to explore were in null then good luck getting there in a shuttle. Get an alt to bring a n00b ship to pick you up? Sure, if you like but the people who killed your ship will know it's coming. Alternatively they could dock up, move the ship so you can't escape and hunt you through the ruins.
The fact you wondered whether people would waste ammo to strand you inside a ruin for no other reason than to laugh at you makes me wonder if you play Eve at all.
Trii Seo wrote:And you seem to imply all of 0.0's lovely warfare is composed out of structure shoots with SRP. Trust me, a lot of pilots wouldn't be flying null alliance colours if it was solely this.
Trust a player who's only been playing only as long as I have probably spent in null myself total? Trust me, I know what null is like. Don't assume I am a carebear just because I want Avatar content. I may have spent the last three or so months in high sec, doing bugger all (ie, barely logging in) but that is not what this character is for.
Trii Seo wrote:Death is irrelevant. A capsuleer's body and ship are merely shells. Material loss - is.
Implants are often the biggest loss, and that's a loss you'd risk rummaging through ruins without your ship. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 16:53:00 -
[2640] - Quote
Efficiency is irrelevant. PvP often is used to achieve a strategic objective. As long as it's accomplished, you can even die doing so and win. Killboard stats are irrelevant. Any mass-fleet button mashing muppet can rack up kills without care. Not to disregard the contribution - without him and others in the line, the battle could've been lost.
And yes, I have wondered if people would actually make the effort of stranding someone in a ruin. There's a lot of reasons why not, most of them: :effort:. Like hell you're going to scan down an anomaly someone parked a T1 covops in for a chance to strand him in 0.0. He likely has an empty clone and by the time you go back with a scanning ship (or even scan down the anom) he's likely to abandon it and cheese it if he has anything of value in cargo.
That's an interesting point about knowing what null is like, solely structure grinds. Maybe it has changed over the few months you've not logged on/been in hisec?
I didn't deny WiS is a cool idea but I did state actual spaceship content should always be a priority. This is why we play the game: spaceships. If CCP shifts focus without that element being top-notch, there will be riots. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2107
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 17:46:00 -
[2641] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Efficiency is irrelevant.... Killboard stats are irrelevant.
...
Like hell you're going to scan down an anomaly someone parked a T1 covops in for a chance to strand him in 0.0. He likely has an empty clone and by the time you go back with a scanning ship (or even scan down the anom) he's likely to abandon it and cheese it if he has anything of value in cargo.
Generally, you should try and avoid hypocrisy in your posts, especially obvious ones.
So, if kill boards are irrelevant why does the ship he is in make any difference to your willingness to scan him down and kill him? By your logic both of those statements can't be true. I would have said both were rubbish, but by your own admission at least one of them has to be, "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 18:37:00 -
[2642] - Quote
What drops better crap? What poses a threat? What's better to hijack? Come on, simple logic not forum-trolling. Okay, killboard stats are relevant as far as bragging rights go. I said they're irrelevant since they do not reflect pilot performance completely.
Anyway, we're spinning this off into shitflinging so let's stop, as I said way earlier, before ISD gets involved.
I said earlier: WiS is a cool idea but less important than spaceships. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
785
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 02:05:00 -
[2643] - Quote
Loco Kamikaze wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote: 2) CCP has active, and highly sophisticated, avatar gameplay development going on. My hunch is that EVE will see WiS once WoD is released and has been out long enough to shake the worst bugs out. Say, in three years or so.
or: if there's a team avatar why aren't they doing avatar stuff?
They are: WoD is 100% pure avatar gameplay.
As to "FiS is more important than WiS," I point you away from this false dichotomy and toward CCP's development plan going forward, in which all areas of the game get some attention in every expansion. They are not going to drop FiS to work on WiS, and once they do introduce WiS in earnest, they will not drop WiS to work on FiS--or industry, or anything else. Every part of the game will get its due, because the goal of future expansions is to have them touch as many aspects of gameplay as possible, in service to an overall theme.
This may be more or less true for the next couple of expansions while they take care of long-neglected business, but it's the direction they've publicly committed to. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 03:30:00 -
[2644] - Quote
Tired of this nonsense from people who object WiS and demand that "Eve should be only about ships" The vision of one of the lead developers CCP's Torfi Frans Olafsson: 0:46-1:56
Isn't CCP big enough to create WiS while working on "ships" part? Yes it "was?" But now, when we have Dust and EvR, plus WoD on backburner - or slow on development (whichever) - maybe the company is not able to sustain the demands of everyone.
The reason - reinventing the wheel. Dust vs hundreds of more competent FPS out there. Now Eve Valkyrie? CCP's new Life Ring. Except it's only more development weight.
All while avatar content in Eve should and would bring more people(subscribers) to the game.
Why was avatar creator rebuilt? What was the point of updating it if all we get is fancier 128x128 (omg Carbon engine thumbnail!) Ah, the game looked dated! But it is going to look dated anyway and interceptor changes or whatever regular "-1 here +1 there" are not going to be enough to bring more players in. Meanwhile, the longer CCP delays developing WiS, more projects - other games they start to works on - the more it is going to hurt Eve.
And if Eve is all about ships - shouldn't we get that active ship icon in our thumbnails instead? That would be 100% representative of current Eve at least. Oh but wait... Forum trolls wouldn't be able to separate from other forum trolls that well any more. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2099
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 08:47:00 -
[2645] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:Tired of this nonsense from people who object WiS and demand that "Eve should be only about ships" The vision of one of the lead developers CCP's Torfi Frans Olafsson: 0:46-1:56Isn't CCP big enough to create WiS while working on "ships" part? Yes it "was?" But now, when we have Dust and EvR, plus WoD on backburner - or slow on development (whichever) - maybe the company is not able to sustain the demands of everyone. The reason - reinventing the wheel. Dust vs hundreds of more competent FPS out there. Now Eve Valkyrie? CCP's new Life Ring. Except it's only more development weight. All while avatar content in Eve should and would bring more people(subscribers) to the game. Why was avatar creator rebuilt? What was the point of updating it if all we get is fancier 128x128 (omg Carbon engine thumbnail!) Ah, the game looked dated! But it is going to look dated anyway and interceptor changes or whatever regular "-1 here +1 there" are not going to be enough to bring more players in. Meanwhile, the longer CCP delays developing WiS, more projects - other games they start to works on - the more it is going to hurt Eve. And if Eve is all about ships - shouldn't we get that active ship icon in our thumbnails instead? That would be 100% representative of current Eve at least. Oh but wait... Forum trolls wouldn't be able to separate from other forum trolls that well any more.
Well, as far as development effort goes, CCP's answer to "where should be placed any effort not related to FiS" is: "anywhere but EVE."
WoD is being developed steadily with a large enough crew; 2013 it's been their "content development" year and so they don't have much to say or show, but Atlanta has been hiring content makers steadily all along the year.
DUST has been running in emergency mode for months and will stay course, actively syphoning resources from Reyjkavik as/if needed.
Valkyrie is a minor project by all measures, being developed by a team which formerly had been detached from Reykjavik to lean a hand to DUST. Now they're still out of the main office but it's just 15 developers.
All them together, though, would make more than enough to develop WiS in EVE without affecting the asmathic development which FiS has been seeing with the approval of the formerly noisy and disgruntled FiS crowd. Anyway, the FiS crowd still hopes to see development on the missing legs of the Holy Trinty: PvP, POS, SOV... and i wonder how much disappointment is coming their way as the Hallelujah Plan unfolds with new more of the same rather than fix what's FUBAR with nullsec, which is more a concept issue than a mechanics issue.
And in the process, new players are unable to understand what's the fuss with content they don't know, can't judge, nor can access; most of the game is a no go zone to anyone not looking for harsh but ultimately pointless PvP; and several large demographics become bored and alienated as EVE performs its one trick routine once again.
Meanwhile, competition plays its cards; Rubicon is rushed to release two weeks earlier than usual to stomp on X: Rebirth's launch date, CCP retextures an arm and calls it a cybernetic limb as Star Citizen's, and Star Citizen engages in a "create a starhisp" contest with 30,000 USD and professional grade goodies as their first prize.
And we the WiSers, we get no cookie, there are no plans to give us cookie, and anyway if they ever had to give us something, it would be cake (yet another game) and not cookie (WiS in EVE). The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
631
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 13:24:00 -
[2646] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:Tired of this nonsense from people who object WiS and demand that "Eve should be only about ships"
Point is: CCP is not working on anything relevant related to EVE? Pretending ship rebalance is "working on spaceship" is hylarious, only noobs and CSM memebers can belive it: what now is called "ship rebalance" is simply the packet of tweaks and numbers adjustments tha CCP always made in ANY expansion, today as 7 years ago. Ordinary, daily, manteinance; life support.
The point is not only or simpy WiS. The point is EVE not getting strategic attention since years. It's likle they waiting for some major company redesign (aka: sell) or anyway like they think EVE is too complex now and the effort to develop it is too big and risky, so is more convenient to invest all it in something brand new
And about forum trolls: don't pay attention to them, they're for the most part company's alts and lache'. Seriously: who could be so worried about "oh no, please, is bad, don't make CCP devs worrking too hard"??
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 13:32:00 -
[2647] - Quote
Would they be the good kind of subscribers, or the "Casual no pvp exploration 2/3/74%"?
I mean deadweights that just sit in hisec, gorge up on ISK and then get scream on the forums when they get shot? If the game was composed solely out of them, it'd die quickly.
PvP is being in-development and changed constantly. "Rebalance" of ships tends to change their mechanics completely. Rubicon brings us interdiction-immune Interceptors, minisiege Marauders and new SoE ships - that's actually not bad.
There seem to be plans to change POSes and Sov mechanics later down the line, much like there are no announced plans for WiS. And good - I'm pretty sure CCP aims for stories built on emergent gameplay and content created by players as a way to market the game.
They don't want us to play a role in a world they built. They want us to build a world from dust they gave us. They want EVE to be a game where player empires rise, set ambitious goals, make impact on history. Where a player can make himself a part of said empire. Great conflicts erupt, over resources or personal animosity. Empires are destroyed in wars that involve thousands of players.
This sounds way more epic than "Solo casual exploration". And it is - likely even to a casual player, if he were to even take his first step.
There's place in all of this for WiS but it's too ambitious to work today. It can be added as a cherry on top.
As for development - EVE is old. Very old. A hint of work being done is the recent implementation of DX11 capability into the engine. Trust me - working on a code that old, likely poorly documented, is hard. It's harder than writing it from scratch. You can't write it from scratch either, because there is something out there that bases on 3 lines of code here you consider redundant. You optimize it, you break it and it all falls to pieces.
They mentioned reworking lighting during the V3 shader discussion. Perhaps we'll see that in Rubicon or following Rubicon - all said, kudos to CCP coders for actually trying to dig into the old code. The same process will be seen in POS and Sov revamps.
I guess it's easy to understand a lot of people haven't done the whole "hey here's 200k of lines of code from ten years back and no docs, go fix it" thing and CCP exhausted its potential for saying "Guys, we're developing this awesome new Z feature that'll totally rock your socks off. Just wait! it's coming soon!" (soon(tm) is somewhat known to be applied here.), so no wonder they keep quiet. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2108
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 13:47:00 -
[2648] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Would they be the good kind of subscribers, or the "Casual no pvp exploration 2/3/74%"?
I mean deadweights that just sit in hisec, gorge up on ISK and then get scream on the forums when they get shot? If the game was composed solely out of them, it'd die quickly.
PvP is being in-development and changed constantly. "Rebalance" of ships tends to change their mechanics completely. Rubicon brings us interdiction-immune Interceptors, minisiege Marauders and new SoE ships - that's actually not bad.
There seem to be plans to change POSes and Sov mechanics later down the line, much like there are no announced plans for WiS. And good - I'm pretty sure CCP aims for stories built on emergent gameplay and content created by players as a way to market the game.
They don't want us to play a role in a world they built. They want us to build a world from dust they gave us. They want EVE to be a game where player empires rise, set ambitious goals, make impact on history. Where a player can make himself a part of said empire. Great conflicts erupt, over resources or personal animosity. Empires are destroyed in wars that involve thousands of players.
This sounds way more epic than "Solo casual exploration". And it is - likely even to a casual player, if he were to even take his first step.
There's place in all of this for WiS but it's too ambitious to work today. It can be added as a cherry on top.
As for development - EVE is old. Very old. A hint of work being done is the recent implementation of DX11 capability into the engine. Trust me - working on a code that old, likely poorly documented, is hard. It's harder than writing it from scratch. You can't write it from scratch either, because there is something out there that bases on 3 lines of code here you consider redundant. You optimize it, you break it and it all falls to pieces.
They mentioned reworking lighting during the V3 shader discussion. Perhaps we'll see that in Rubicon or following Rubicon - all said, kudos to CCP coders for actually trying to dig into the old code. The same process will be seen in POS and Sov revamps.
I guess it's easy to understand a lot of people haven't done the whole "hey here's 200k of lines of code from ten years back and no docs, go fix it" thing and CCP exhausted its potential for saying "Guys, we're developing this awesome new Z feature that'll totally rock your socks off. Just wait! it's coming soon!" (soon(tm) is somewhat known to be applied here.), so no wonder they keep quiet.
Is there a point in all that, or is it just waffle? Looks like waffle to me. If you were trying to make some kind of point then you failed. The same (actually worse because they are working more closely with legacy code on existing objects) code restrictions apply to FiS as WiS content, so the fact that development is hard (boo hoo) is no reason for them not to work on some Avatar content. And it still doesn't excuse the fact that CCP are working on five different projects where only one of them pulls in an income.
As for the whole "attracting casual players is bad" thing, what makes you think it would attract casual players? You think that perhaps because people might want an Avatar that means something that they are a casual player? CCP's player base already consists of a vast majority of what you would call "casual players". Fact is, it's better to attract someone you might consider "casual" and convert them to the cold dark ways of Eve online then to just ignore the market. If they can't convert and they leave, well who cares? Eve already has one of the lowest new player retention rates of any non-free-to-play anyway. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 14:11:00 -
[2649] - Quote
That would be because everyone likes waffles.
And that it was a response to the posts above, getting it would require reading the posts above. Come ooon, if you're going to try and troll it up at least put some heart into it!
There are no legacy code restrictions on WiS because there is no legacy WiS. It needs to be written from scratch. Plenty of legacy FiS content. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2108
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 14:20:00 -
[2650] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: And that it was a response to the posts above, getting it would require reading the posts above. Come ooon, if you're going to try and troll it up at least put some heart into it!
Maybe some quotes and less waffle might help get your point across. Calling me a troll doesn't alleviate the fact that you haven't been addressing any of the arguments I pose. A "forum" is a place of discussion, if your going to just speak and ignore others replies then you shouldn't really be in a forum.
Trii Seo wrote:There are no legacy code restrictions on WiS because there is no legacy WiS. It needs to be written from scratch. Plenty of legacy FiS content.
Well, that was kind of the point I was making. Guess you missed that. That said, I can't help but point out there are always legacy issues integrating anything with existing software. There "are no legacy code restrictions" is technically a lie. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2104
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 16:20:00 -
[2651] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Would they be the good kind of subscribers, or the "Casual no pvp exploration 2/3/74%"?
I mean deadweights that just sit in hisec, gorge up on ISK and then get scream on the forums when they get shot? If the game was composed solely out of them, it'd die quickly.
PvP is being in-development and changed constantly. "Rebalance" of ships tends to change their mechanics completely. Rubicon brings us interdiction-immune Interceptors, minisiege Marauders and new SoE ships - that's actually not bad.
There seem to be plans to change POSes and Sov mechanics later down the line, much like there are no announced plans for WiS. And good - I'm pretty sure CCP aims for stories built on emergent gameplay and content created by players as a way to market the game.
They don't want us to play a role in a world they built. They want us to build a world from dust they gave us. They want EVE to be a game where player empires rise, set ambitious goals, make impact on history. Where a player can make himself a part of said empire. Great conflicts erupt, over resources or personal animosity. Empires are destroyed in wars that involve thousands of players.
This sounds way more epic than "Solo casual exploration". And it is - likely even to a casual player, if he were to even take his first step.
The fact that CCP itself is working to develop exactly that kind of epic emergent gameplay in a avatar-only game should give you a clue.
PvE can be epic if it suits to PvP goals (just not "me and my 50 l33t bullies asploded yur ship, hawhaw you n00b!" PvP).
A wall can be built a brick at a time, in a casual friendly manner, without a need to bring 50 friends and spend the next 6 hours doing the ingame equivalent to watch paint dry. And laying a brick on a wall can be learned in the first 5 minutes of game, without a need to learn to survive to the l33t bullies who out-everything you.
You just need the WILL to do it, to ADD more EVE to EVE rather than paint the microwave in a different color, take the same old porridge and reheat it again.
But CCP lacks the will. They're too old, or scared, or incompetent, or whatever. They don't have the right stuff and even when they hire outside talent to ave their asses from themselves, they manage to turn a LARPer into a fan of "moar nullsec" rather than give her a chance to save EVE from the reheated porridge of "build ships-asplode ships".
Quote:As for development - EVE is old. Very old. A hint of work being done is the recent implementation of DX11 capability into the engine. Trust me - working on a code that old, likely poorly documented, is hard. It's harder than writing it from scratch. You can't write it from scratch either, because there is something out there that bases on 3 lines of code here you consider redundant. You optimize it, you break it and it all falls to pieces.
In case you didn't noticed, most of that work was done in 2010-2011 as they developed the Carbon workframe. Legacy code is less of an issue now than updated but extremely complex FiS mechanics. FAI, restat one ship and all other 500 types take a hit, good luck not breaking anything in the process.
EVE's FiS ecosystem is extremely complex and further complexity will not make any favor to it, so you better expect the Halellujah Plan removing complexity, maybe scuttling the whole SOV system and replace with "NewSpace Holding Mechanic". FiS doing too many things in too many ways is an issue.
But meanwhile, other potential ecosystems are untouched. Like, WiS. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 16:57:00 -
[2652] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:There's place in all of this for WiS but it's too ambitious to work today. It can be added as a cherry on top. ... As for development - EVE is old. Very old. A hint of work being done is the recent implementation of DX11 capability into the engine. Trust me - working on a code that old, likely poorly documented, is hard. It's harder than writing it from scratch. ... "hey here's 200k of lines of code from ten years back and no docs, go fix it" thing and CCP exhausted its potential for saying "Guys, we're developing this awesome new Z feature that'll totally rock your socks off. So in the essence what you are saying it is much harder to work on the "ships" part, as it takes gigantic effort to rewrite the old code to fix numerous features or to even to introduce new ones.
Yet now WiS is ignored, because a handful of "hardcore" gamers(which they love to call themselves) threw a fit when a single box with textures named CQ was presented as Incarna. Imo, that's the main reason they do not do anything, well, besides the possibility that they layed the most of the team working on wis off, while moving the remaider to work on WoD.
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
677
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 21:54:00 -
[2653] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Trii Seo wrote:Would they be the good kind of subscribers, or the "Casual no pvp exploration 2/3/74%"?
I mean deadweights that just sit in hisec, gorge up on ISK and then get scream on the forums when they get shot? If the game was composed solely out of them, it'd die quickly.
PvP is being in-development and changed constantly. "Rebalance" of ships tends to change their mechanics completely. Rubicon brings us interdiction-immune Interceptors, minisiege Marauders and new SoE ships - that's actually not bad.
There seem to be plans to change POSes and Sov mechanics later down the line, much like there are no announced plans for WiS. And good - I'm pretty sure CCP aims for stories built on emergent gameplay and content created by players as a way to market the game.
They don't want us to play a role in a world they built. They want us to build a world from dust they gave us. They want EVE to be a game where player empires rise, set ambitious goals, make impact on history. Where a player can make himself a part of said empire. Great conflicts erupt, over resources or personal animosity. Empires are destroyed in wars that involve thousands of players.
This sounds way more epic than "Solo casual exploration". And it is - likely even to a casual player, if he were to even take his first step. The fact that CCP itself is working to develop exactly that kind of epic emergent gameplay in a avatar-only game should give you a clue. PvE can be epic if it suits to PvP goals (just not "me and my 50 l33t bullies asploded yur ship, hawhaw you n00b!" PvP). A wall can be built a brick at a time, in a casual friendly manner, without a need to bring 50 friends and spend the next 6 hours doing the ingame equivalent to watch paint dry. And laying a brick on a wall can be learned in the first 5 minutes of game, without a need to learn to survive to the l33t bullies who out-everything you. You just need the WILL to do it, to ADD more EVE to EVE rather than paint the microwave in a different color, take the same old porridge and reheat it again. But CCP lacks the will. They're too old, or scared, or incompetent, or whatever. They don't have the right stuff and even when they hire outside talent to ave their asses from themselves, they manage to turn a LARPer into a fan of "moar nullsec" rather than give her a chance to save EVE from the reheated porridge of "build ships-asplode ships". Quote:As for development - EVE is old. Very old. A hint of work being done is the recent implementation of DX11 capability into the engine. Trust me - working on a code that old, likely poorly documented, is hard. It's harder than writing it from scratch. You can't write it from scratch either, because there is something out there that bases on 3 lines of code here you consider redundant. You optimize it, you break it and it all falls to pieces. In case you didn't noticed, most of that work was done in 2010-2011 as they developed the Carbon workframe. Legacy code is less of an issue now than updated but extremely complex FiS mechanics. FAI, restat one ship and all other 500 types take a hit, good luck not breaking anything in the process. EVE's FiS ecosystem is extremely complex and further complexity will not make any favor to it, so you better expect the Halellujah Plan removing complexity, maybe scuttling the whole SOV system and replace with "NewSpace Holding Mechanic". FiS doing too many things in too many ways is an issue. But meanwhile, other potential ecosystems are untouched. Like, WiS.
And what about the new mantle-api update. The say that mantle is better without the bottleneck of directx or opengl. If ccp is using..... So far i know ccp is working with amd. Are the still parners or not.... Any one know that? |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
455
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 22:46:00 -
[2654] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:Trii Seo wrote:There's place in all of this for WiS but it's too ambitious to work today. It can be added as a [quote=Thetabetalpha][quote=Trii Seo]There's place in all of this for WiS but it's too ambitious to work today. It can be added as a cherry on top. ... As for development - EVE is old. Very old. A hint of work being done is the recent implementation of DX11 capability into the engine. Trust me - working on a code that old, likely poorly documented, is hard. It's harder than writing it from scratch. ... "hey here's 200k of lines of code from ten years back and no docs, go fix it" thing and CCP exhausted its potential for saying "Guys, we're developing this awesome new Z feature that'll totally rock your socks off. So in the essence what you are saying it is much harder to work on the "ships" part, as it takes gigantic effort to rewrite the old code to fix numerous features or to even to introduce new ones. Yet now WiS is ignored, because a handful of "hardcore" gamers(which they love to call themselves) threw a fit when a single box with textures named CQ was presented as Incarna. Imo, that's the main reason they do not do anything, well, besides the possibility that they layed the most of the team working on wis off, while moving the remaider to work on WoD. Now you get to feel what it's like, when CCP comes out with a statement that your favorite part of this SPACESHIP GAME won't be worked on for "18 months", because of restricted manpower. How do you like it, eh? You don't like it when your game lies broken and bleeding, ignored for "other develoment comitments." The trouble is you WiSers are a minority in the game, heck you can't eveven get enough people to shoot a damned statue in Jita about it, so what makes you think CCP should listen to you?
CCP worked on Incarna, and all we got out of it was, us forced into a rusty closet at first, and barbie dress-up, and it melted your graphics card to do it to. I'm glad that CCP realised that they were trying to fill in a, develomental Grand Canyon, with shovels, and stoped trying to throw more manpower at something that had no gameplay at all. You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
821
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:12:00 -
[2655] - Quote
I enjoy reading statements that are unsupported by evidence.
25 % of players use the CQ as their default view according to previous CSM minutes. And this is despite the fact that it is currently devoid of gameplay.
People who want WiS are not in the minority.
Besides. The number of players currently engaged in activity is not necessarily the best indication of the popularity of a feature. POS's are a classic example of this. Heaps of players would love to build their own home in space but the high cost, tedium, and difficulty of doing it through the current POS system puts people off. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Kourdus
State War Academy Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 03:32:00 -
[2656] - Quote
sorry for the stupid question...but what does "FiS" stand for? |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 03:38:00 -
[2657] - Quote
Kourdus wrote:sorry for the stupid question...but what does "FiS" stand for? Flying in Space
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2120
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 09:13:00 -
[2658] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote: Now you get to feel what it's like, when CCP comes out with a statement that your favorite part of this SPACESHIP GAME won't be worked on for "18 months", because of restricted manpower. How do you like it, eh? You don't like it when your game lies broken and bleeding, ignored for "other develoment comitments." The trouble is you WiSers are a minority in the game, heck you can't eveven get enough people to shoot a damned statue in Jita about it, so what makes you think CCP should listen to you?
CCP worked on Incarna, and all we got out of it was, us forced into a rusty closet at first, and barbie dress-up, and it melted your graphics card to do it to. I'm glad that CCP realised that they were trying to fill in a, develomental Grand Canyon, with shovels, and stoped trying to throw more manpower at something that had no gameplay at all.
I don't think you wrote a single sentence that had any truth in it. I would break it down sentence by sentence, but an ignorance as strong as yours is rarely corrected this late in life. I think we should just put you down.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2107
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 10:03:00 -
[2659] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I enjoy reading statements that are unsupported by evidence.
25 % of players use the CQ as their default view according to previous CSM minutes. And this is despite the fact that it is currently devoid of gameplay.
People who want WiS are not in the minority.
Besides. The number of players currently engaged in activity is not necessarily the best indication of the popularity of a feature. POS's are a classic example of this. Heaps of players would love to build their own home in space but the high cost, tedium, and difficulty of doing it through the current POS system puts people off.
With the latest Odyssey patch, they have started to put new players randomly either at the CQ or in hangar view, in order to tell wether that makes a difference in retention rate.
I wonder what will happen.
case a), CQ drives players away because it's devoid of everything = get rid of CQ as a start location case b), CQ retains player better albeit it is devoid of everyhing = hit panic button
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
900
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 10:17:00 -
[2660] - Quote
Got aquarium in SC today + buggy-jumping track + some ugly "space cowboy" leather suit. Purchased +1 limited ship, now my toon can "sleep" in hangar: unlike previous (fighter) ship this one has working couch... By the way - I can see all my ships in hangar at once.
Result? SC gathered almost $1mil in 2 days having only half-functioning hangar module while CCP is experimenting with Dust and Valkyrie. |
|
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
212
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 11:01:00 -
[2661] - Quote
I am downloading the SC update now. Somehow it is downloading at 20MB/s which is double my internet speed. I have no idea how that works. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2120
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 11:05:00 -
[2662] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Got aquarium in SC today + buggy-jumping track + some ugly "space cowboy" leather suit. Purchased +1 limited ship, now my toon can "sleep" in hangar: unlike previous (fighter) ship this one has working couch... By the way - I can see all my ships in hangar at once.
Result? SC gathered almost $1mil in 2 days having only half-functioning hangar module while CCP is experimenting with Dust and Valkyrie.
Huh? Wasn't the shooting range leading the poll on what should be added next to the hangar module? (Anyway i get to make that module work, I'd bet it's something with my DirectX). The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
631
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 12:40:00 -
[2663] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: People who want WiS are not in the minority.
Besides. The number of players currently engaged in activity is not necessarily the best indication of the popularity of a feature. POS's are a classic example of this. Heaps of players would love to build their own home in space but the high cost, tedium, and difficulty of doing it through the current POS system puts people off.
Yes, POS is an example. But also 0.0 itself: only a small minority of EVE players use it and enjjoy that kind of gameplay; not a good reason to remove it.
|
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
631
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 12:47:00 -
[2664] - Quote
SC, I doubt will never be a serious competitor for EVE; we'll see.
However what is impressive in SC is the found raising on some general game idea. This should teach something about the MMORPG playerbase needs and market trends.
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 12:52:00 -
[2665] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:The fact that CCP itself is working to develop exactly that kind of epic emergent gameplay in a avatar-only game should give you a clue. PvE can be epic if it suits to PvP goals (just not "me and my 50 l33t bullies asploded yur ship, hawhaw you n00b!" PvP). A wall can be built a brick at a time, in a casual friendly manner, without a need to bring 50 friends and spend the next 6 hours doing the ingame equivalent to watch paint dry. And laying a brick on a wall can be learned in the first 5 minutes of game, without a need to learn to survive to the l33t bullies who out-everything you. You just need the WILL to do it, to ADD more EVE to EVE rather than paint the microwave in a different color, take the same old porridge and reheat it again. But CCP lacks the will. They're too old, or scared, or incompetent, or whatever. They don't have the right stuff and even when they hire outside talent to ave their asses from themselves, they manage to turn a LARPer into a fan of "moar nullsec" rather than give her a chance to save EVE from the reheated porridge of "build ships-asplode ships". *** In case you didn't noticed, most of that work was done in 2010-2011 as they developed the Carbon workframe. Legacy code is less of an issue now than updated but extremely complex FiS mechanics. FAI, restat one ship and all other 500 types take a hit, good luck not breaking anything in the process. EVE's FiS ecosystem is extremely complex and further complexity will not make any favor to it, so you better expect the Halellujah Plan removing complexity, maybe scuttling the whole SOV system and replace with "NewSpace Holding Mechanic". FiS doing too many things in too many ways is an issue. But meanwhile, other potential ecosystems are untouched. Like, WiS.
Carbon is just the start. You need to develop assets, work on netcode (I somehow don't see 1s ticks working too well with WiS mechanics) that doesn't tax the servers too much. And let's not forget optimization work - current CQ is far from the smoothest operating environments of the game and that's after numerous fixes.
Anything done to be casual-friendly, hardcore players will exploit to their own needs. It will change nothing, because in addition to mechanics, a "casual" player would have to go up against "hardcore pvpers" and the result would be exactly the same, with the exact same amount of tears on the forums.
As for casual players - there's plenty of them even among the pvp crowd. They have jobs, families, lives, they log in for a few hours a week and go blow up some ships. Hell, it's where player-driven funding like SRP shines - giving them an opportunity to enjoy the game at its best while not requiring them to waste time on PvE. Can't say I've seen those people demand WiS, they usually hit comms and say "Let's go find some trouble, I have time finally".
The difference between breaking FiS and not developing WiS is that breaking the former will spark riots and unsubs from a vast majority of players that treat the game's core, spaceships, as a priority. I've not seen WiS dedicated people get organized enough to go for a riot that makes an impact. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 14:01:00 -
[2666] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:The difference between breaking FiS and not developing WiS is that breaking the former will spark riots and unsubs from a vast majority of players that treat the game's core, spaceships, as a priority. I've not seen WiS dedicated people get organized enough to go for a riot that makes an impact. CCP had been talking for awhile, all the fanfest talks, etc. Many promises, but the least amount of delivery. There was so much talk about WiS, that players naturally expected a whole lot more from Incarna.
Developing WiS shouldn't involve breaking of FiS, nobody wants that. Plus among those shooting your Jita statue, the riot that you somehow attribute to only people liking FiS, there were plenty of players who wanted Incarna brought to Eve properly, when all we got is a way to fry hardware.
Then priority speaking - have you bothered watching that fanfest interview with Torfi Frans Olafsson I linked in one previous posts? Basically he states if Eve team is big enough (and work on so many projects proves it) there should be plenty of room to develop WiS on top of FiS. There should not be a priority!
But that's CCP, that loves giving promises tossing a SoonGäó here and there, when it actually means "sometimes in the next 10 years, hopefully, if we feel like it and you guys do not ***** about it too much."
Sura Sadiva wrote:SC, I doubt will never be a serious competitor for EVE; we'll see.
However what is impressive in SC is the fund raising on some general game idea. This should teach something about the MMORPG playerbase needs and market trends. C.Roberts is enjoying surfing that big wave of "Shut up and take my money now!" while CCP staff watches it from the beach shore, sitting in somehow separate from everybody sandbox, that desperately needs the sand changed in it since, oh, like half a decade? |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 14:28:00 -
[2667] - Quote
I think it's more of a CCP is sitting with sunglasses on, ready to watch a nuclear test go off. Because when SC slams face-first into the ground it will be a classic explosion of hyped-up disappointment.
One thing CCP has learned is not to promise those Soon(tm) features. They just keep it quiet until they're ready to face the public. There is a lot of wisdom in what they're doing - how fast would an EVE player get bored with features like that hangar? Two-three weeks in they'd see it as a hindrance when it comes to undocking.
Looking at CQ it's easy to say: it looks cool. It'd look even cooler if say, its items reflected what you have in your hangar on this station. Maybe the view from the balcony had ships other than your active one.
But then you have to consider that CQ takes up additional loading time when you dock. It's annoying when you travel, and infuriating when time is of the essence - combat reships/refits for instance.
The devs are wise focusing on the actual content and things that have been proven to work. For now CCP seems to have the right focus: giving us a reason to undock, to fight for something. They give us means to spice up the fight. With conflict come losses in ships that need to be replaced, with that come profits for the industrial minded. The industrial minded reach out for resources to achieve higher profit at lower costs, competing each other and generating conflict - the cycle that powered EVE for the past decade continues.
For once in a long, long while the developers are doing it right - looking rather carefully at what they do and addressing some very much needed issues (like the lack of low-end minerals and production slots in 0.0. Now mining there is much more viable and profitable). Hell, they're even giving us non-POS places to live in form of Depots (or Space Yurts) for those who want a home in space but can't be bothered with the whole POS thing.
Roberts, as much as I like his old work , strolled into the MMO scene with a lot of promises and a lot of money on the line. Take a look at Freelancer, from his previous releases - he promised amazing, dynamic world that changed on its own. What came out in the end? The world was static, never changed, plotline required you to do boring and repetitive missions in order to advance. It was a good game, but not what people wanted.
Were any elements of the actual gameplay, content and all presented for Star Citizen or just a shiney-yet-useless hangar? Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 14:51:00 -
[2668] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Were any elements of the actual gameplay, content and all presented for Star Citizen or just a shiney-yet-useless hangar? Would it hurt if something as "useless" raised as much money for Eve?
Oh, but the problem is - Eve players want "free" expansions. Never mind, CCP told us all expansions are free. And that set the quality standard for the "expansions" also.
Makes one wonder if that would it be the main reason we got one room as CQ? |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
317
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 14:54:00 -
[2669] - Quote
WiS is useless, as it is. Now, we're talking about leaving our ships vulnerable to ganking while we EVA?
I would be all for this concept, if it was a separate singleplayer game. I would probably actually buy it, if that's what the finished product ends up being. I seriously think CCP is wasting what could be a brilliant expanded universe by not introducing singleplayer EVE-related games. I always thought a turn-based strategy game about the Amarr-Jove war would be a great way to look back at some of the past occurrences and shed light on some of the darker corners of the lore. Perhaps even dip further back into pre-rediscovery of space travel days.
And, why are we in a completely different galaxy, altogether, with thousands of inhabitable worlds, but we haven't run into a single nonhuman intelligent race, yet? Way back in the beginning of EVE, I thought that's what Jovians were. I was kind of disappointed to find out they were just regular people that got into some seriously mad scientist stuff. When are we going to get suddenly blindsided by the appearance of legitimate aliens (again.... totally dropped the ball with the Incursions. That could have been the point when you said "oh, by the way.... you're not alone, here")? We've become comfortable with just killing eachother. Give us a reason to band together, again. Even PvP gets boring (wow.... I'm edging close to blasphemy, there) every now and again. A lot of folks want more events and reasons to cooperate with other players. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
631
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 16:50:00 -
[2670] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: The devs are wise focusing on the actual content and things that have been proven to work. For now CCP seems to have the right focus: giving us a reason to undock, to fight for something. They give us means to spice up the fight. With conflict come losses in ships that need to be replaced, with that come profits for the industrial minded. The industrial minded reach out for resources to achieve higher profit at lower costs, competing each other and generating conflict - the cycle that powered EVE for the past decade continues.
Yes, I agree, is correct to keep mantaining, adjusting and tweaking this. But is not something alternative. Reviweing resources distribution, tweaking ships stats, fixing bugs, adjusting here and there is simply the ordinary mantainence any MMORPG do. And CCP always did this as well.
This have to continue but, let's face it, is not game developing or expanding EVE universe. Are simply update on some SQL table. And, yes, of course is cheap and convenient for CCP.
If EVE lasted 10 years is not due to the ordinary mantainence but because CCP was always able to progressively expand the sci-fi sandbox boundaries. If CCP always focused only on what already works we hadn't now too much, neither POS, alliance interfaces, nothing.
Is not a case if the last meaningfull growth (even in nummbers) we had for EVE is the trinity-apocryphia developing segment. Nothing after this, only ordinary mantainence and life support.
This is not because resources are focused on WiS or FiS or whatever, nothing of that is getting devlopment. It's because the foucs is redirected on Dust and other games. Resources were not relocated to FiS, resource are relocated on an external avatar-based FPS game: Dust.
People loving EVE care about this.
SC can be vaporware and a bad game, the point is not this. The point is that people is paid them 22 milons in advanced based only on some blurry and generic idea. This give a clue about players needs.
|
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1021
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 17:18:00 -
[2671] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Falin Whalen wrote: Now you get to feel what it's like, when CCP comes out with a statement that your favorite part of this SPACESHIP GAME won't be worked on for "18 months", because of restricted manpower. How do you like it, eh? You don't like it when your game lies broken and bleeding, ignored for "other develoment comitments." The trouble is you WiSers are a minority in the game, heck you can't eveven get enough people to shoot a damned statue in Jita about it, so what makes you think CCP should listen to you?
CCP worked on Incarna, and all we got out of it was, us forced into a rusty closet at first, and barbie dress-up, and it melted your graphics card to do it to. I'm glad that CCP realised that they were trying to fill in a, develomental Grand Canyon, with shovels, and stoped trying to throw more manpower at something that had no gameplay at all.
I don't think you wrote a single sentence that had any truth in it. I would break it down sentence by sentence, but an ignorance as strong as yours is rarely corrected this late in life. I think we should just put you down.
Rhes must be on vacation and they sent someone to fill in for him with the usual "Barbie" drivel This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1021
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 17:21:00 -
[2672] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Got aquarium in SC today + buggy-jumping track + some ugly "space cowboy" leather suit. Purchased +1 limited ship, now my toon can "sleep" in hangar: unlike previous (fighter) ship this one has working couch... By the way - I can see all my ships in hangar at once.
Result? SC gathered almost $1mil in 2 days having only half-functioning hangar module while CCP is experimenting with Dust and Valkyrie.
Melted my Caterpillar to get the Retaliator, got the limited edition Aurora Legionnaire and got the Avenger just because it looks so cool :D If only Eve had the same vision as SC .... This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1021
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 17:24:00 -
[2673] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:SC, I doubt will never be a serious competitor for EVE; we'll see.
However what is impressive in SC is the fund raising on some general game idea. This should teach something about the MMORPG playerbase needs and market trends.
For those who want 2000 player battles out in null sure it won't be a competitor - for those who want a true sci-fi simulator (i.e. not just spaceships but a bit of everything else and devs willing to fulfil that dream) SC fits the bill. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Alice Saki
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
92947
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 17:48:00 -
[2674] - Quote
Still Waiting on Content xD
|
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
320
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 17:57:00 -
[2675] - Quote
I'll tell you what Incarna *did* do.... Incarna made a lot of early subbers leave the game. There were so many other issues that could have been worked on, back then. And to make matters worse, a couple hundred accounts from the first 3 years of the game just up and logged off, stopped paying their fees, and all their ISK and toys and knowledge are now no longer an active part of our world.
One such player... a guy named Gamertrav... was more than willing to take time out of his day to suck down a joint big enough to make Cheech and Chong pass out and help other players learn how to PvP, explore, and make ISK. And he wasn't the only one of those guys that was like that. EVE didn't just lose players... it lost mentors. And even if 3 more mentors crop up in every one of their places, you still can't substitute that much knowledge packing up and leaving. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
269
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 18:14:00 -
[2676] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Lots of biitervets left the game because , it wasn't and Excel Game anymore.
Fixed it four you!!
And i think it's good thing they left....
RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2137
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 19:11:00 -
[2677] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:I'll tell you what Incarna *did* do.... Incarna made a lot of early subbers leave the game. There were so many other issues that could have been worked on, back then. And to make matters worse, a couple hundred accounts from the first 3 years of the game just up and logged off, stopped paying their fees, and all their ISK and toys and knowledge are now no longer an active part of our world.
One such player... a guy named Gamertrav... was more than willing to take time out of his day to suck down a joint big enough to make Cheech and Chong pass out and help other players learn how to PvP, explore, and make ISK. And he wasn't the only one of those guys that was like that. EVE didn't just lose players... it lost mentors. And even if 3 more mentors crop up in every one of their places, you still can't substitute that much knowledge packing up and leaving.
I hate having to repeat this because idiots like you come in and think you know how it is without having done any research
Incarna didn't suck because they put resources in WiS developement. The CQ was a tiny part of Incarnageddon development time. Incarna sucked ass for many many reasons. But walking in stations has **** all to do with it.
Incarna this, incarna that. It's not ******* relevant. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
321
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 19:17:00 -
[2678] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Lots of biitervets left the game because , it wasn't and Excel Game anymore. Fixed it four you!! And i think it's good thing they left....
Responding to a stealth "nerf high sp accounts" post..... "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
321
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 19:22:00 -
[2679] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:I'll tell you what Incarna *did* do.... Incarna made a lot of early subbers leave the game. There were so many other issues that could have been worked on, back then. And to make matters worse, a couple hundred accounts from the first 3 years of the game just up and logged off, stopped paying their fees, and all their ISK and toys and knowledge are now no longer an active part of our world.
One such player... a guy named Gamertrav... was more than willing to take time out of his day to suck down a joint big enough to make Cheech and Chong pass out and help other players learn how to PvP, explore, and make ISK. And he wasn't the only one of those guys that was like that. EVE didn't just lose players... it lost mentors. And even if 3 more mentors crop up in every one of their places, you still can't substitute that much knowledge packing up and leaving. I hate having to repeat this because idiots like you come in and think you know how it is without having done any research Incarna didn't suck because they put resources in WiS developement. The CQ was a tiny part of Incarnageddon development time. Incarna sucked ass for many many reasons. But walking in stations has **** all to do with it. Incarna this, incarna that. It's not ******* relevant.
Weren't you one of the dudes who was lauding WiS, in local, back when we all thought it was going to happen?
OF COURSE that wasn't the only thing wrong with Incarna, you unobservant bag of hammers. I never said it was. Show me ONE word of that post you quoted where I said "WiS" instead of "Incarna". Who is the "idiot", now? There were a lot of asterisks in that post, man. Who urinated in your pancake batter, this morning? Because I know for damn sure it wasn't me. Re-direct your anger-spew elsewhere. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Nadia Barsrallah
Nerbles
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 19:30:00 -
[2680] - Quote
EVE is a fundamentally flawed PVP game if you can hide in stations in 0.0. There are those who aren't space barbies who want incarna.
Pro-flying in space blobbers are scared of a space barbie pointing a gun at their head in stations.
they are afraid that an RP-er space barbie will kick down their CQ door and tea bag their corpse.
hiding in stations and being invulnerable shouldn't be part of game claiming to be hardcore pvp |
|
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2137
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 19:33:00 -
[2681] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote: Weren't you one of the dudes who was lauding WiS, in local, back when we all thought it was going to happen?
OF COURSE that wasn't the only thing wrong with Incarna, you unobservant bag of hammers. I never said it was. Show me ONE word of that post you quoted where I said "WiS" instead of "Incarna". Who is the "idiot", now? There were a lot of asterisks in that post, man. Who urinated in your pancake batter, this morning? Because I know for damn sure it wasn't me. Re-direct your anger-spew elsewhere.
The point is you are using Incarna as a justification for not developing avatar content. Which is why your an idiot. What you are doing now is called back tracking, which only makes you more of an idiot. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
322
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 19:39:00 -
[2682] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote: Weren't you one of the dudes who was lauding WiS, in local, back when we all thought it was going to happen?
OF COURSE that wasn't the only thing wrong with Incarna, you unobservant bag of hammers. I never said it was. Show me ONE word of that post you quoted where I said "WiS" instead of "Incarna". Who is the "idiot", now? There were a lot of asterisks in that post, man. Who urinated in your pancake batter, this morning? Because I know for damn sure it wasn't me. Re-direct your anger-spew elsewhere.
The point is you are using Incarna as a justification for not developing avatar content. Which is why your an idiot. What you are doing now is called back tracking, which only makes you more of an idiot.
Responding to a post by a completely different person than you, on a completely different subject. Thank you and good-bye. Take your insults to someone who actually gives a damn, and leave me be, that I may converse with intelligent people. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Isis Dea
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
151
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 20:30:00 -
[2683] - Quote
EVE is forever a game of internet spaceships. And thanks to CCP those spaceships have gotten better and better, balanced, fixed. Time-dilation has in many ways fixed server stability from when Incarna first came out.
They've done an amazing job catering to starships. Nine years playing and forever a PvPer, I can vouch.
But what they haven't catered very hugely to has been the lore.
Nine years and there's still a wall between the players and the massive (dark) world that is EVE Online's lore.
In fact, there's been a slow decline of the lore since Empyrean Age: Incarna took away a lot of individuality within character options and key racial features. Key characters within the lore have slowly been killed off without any notable replacements. (Caldari Prime was a great touch, but doesn't fill the void very well between events and didn't strongly impact the players within the lore.)
We were finally able to venture outside the capsule but still never allowed to show face as to who we are in the world.
Other parts of the stations would be nice.
More character customization would be nice.
Lore representation of your assets would be nice. (IE, customizing crew for a ship, which would tweak an implant's worth of passives in that ship, with time and enough veterancy maybe a little more.)
Ability to interact with NPCs would be nice. (Such interviewing assets of missions, such as the militants you just scooped.)
Hand in hand with the above recommendation, ability to interact with your agents face-to-face would be nice, especially if from a place of dominance and fear-inducing. In time with enough standing, you could modify this reception to something more friendly.
Ability to assign passengers to your captains quarters would also be nice. (They would come with assorted props and would change various places around the captain's quarters with each visit.) (This could open up sides to a mission you're not seeing, and hint to how your truly doing the dirty work of corporations.)
Ability to further customize planets you've set up base on, even having standings with that world. Some improvements suggested may empower the world more than actually help you out, overall improving standings with the planet and overall efficiency of the P.I. interactions.
There's plenty of other options suggested out there.
Bottom line: Part of what makes EVE Online so deep, powerful, and profoundly ambient is the lore. The lore is defined by the characters involved. We in many ways are the characters.
Who we are is shaped by features of Incarna, WIS, and that which isn't internet spaceships.
CCP has honored us by fixing and balancing one side of EVE now. Please help encourage them not to forget the other side.
After all, you want more people to kill, right? |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
325
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 21:00:00 -
[2684] - Quote
Isis Dea wrote:TL;DR = I'm freaking awesome and have awesome opinions of awesomeness, plus my avatar is a total pixel-babe
And, that's how Isis came to be rated as "alright in my book".... join SMERG. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Isis Dea
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
158
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 22:57:00 -
[2685] - Quote
Realized this isn't the best topic to throw a list down. Decided instead to make a better topic in the Ideas section of the forums for this stuff and opened it up to the public.
I have a feeling this thread was made for another purpose.
The topic can be found here. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2143
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 12:08:00 -
[2686] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Stuff
I re-read the post I insulted and looked for who you were replying to. And it still really looks like you were just using Incarna as a reason for not developing WiS content. It really wasn't very clear.
Having read a lot of your other posts recently, I realize that can't have been your intention however, and I owe you an apology. I'm sorry for being a ****. Won't stop me from being a **** in future however, as unfortunately being an ass hole get's results on this cesspool Eve players call a forum.
Isis Dea wrote:The topic can be found here.
You have my support. If you can actually get something done, your a better person than I. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
206
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 14:40:00 -
[2687] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:
As for development - EVE is old. Very old. A hint of work being done is the recent implementation of DX11 capability into the engine. Trust me - working on a code that old, likely poorly documented, is hard. It's harder than writing it from scratch. You can't write it from scratch either, because there is something out there that bases on 3 lines of code here you consider redundant. You optimize it, you break it and it all falls to pieces.
And this is the reason for which they are re-writing the core game features before they re-write the foundation of the graphic engine. As I wrote before in this and other threads, this work could already be done and deployed long ago, had CCP's project management not put the project on life support by assigning resources to side project developments.
Trii Seo wrote:I think it's more of a CCP is sitting with sunglasses on, ready to watch a nuclear test go off. Because when SC slams face-first into the ground it will be a classic explosion of hyped-up disappointment. Reality check - That is what happened with EVE when Incarna was released as a half baked feature 2 years ago.
Trii Seo wrote:One thing CCP has learned is not to promise those Soon(tm) features. They just keep it quiet until they're ready to face the public. There is a lot of wisdom in what they're doing - how fast would an EVE player get bored with features like that hangar? Two-three weeks in they'd see it as a hindrance when it comes to undocking. Yes, that is exactly what happened with Incarna CQ and hangar, and it is indeed a better conduct by CCP to quit making Pie in The SkyGäó promises until they can actually flesh them out to avoid upsetting the playerbase in the future.
Trii Seo wrote:Roberts, as much as I like his old work , strolled into the MMO scene with a lot of promises and a lot of money on the line. Take a look at Freelancer, from his previous releases - he promised amazing, dynamic world that changed on its own. What came out in the end? The world was static, never changed, plotline required you to do boring and repetitive missions in order to advance. It was a good game, but not what people wanted.
Were any elements of the actual gameplay, content and all presented for Star Citizen or just a shiney-yet-useless hangar? Roberts, as much as it may cost you to admit, programs more by himself than a whole team of CCP programmers. He's got more expertise, more experience, vision and motivation (which goes a long way). But he is also a smart man with enough sensibility to grasp that he and his team mates alone will not be able to all the work by themselves, so they are not beating on the chest yelling "We are the best and can do everything alone", coming up with Reinvented WheelsGäó and moving around the world to work on spawned side projects. Instead, they outsourced a big portion of the work to other studios all around the world (CIG, Behaviour Interactive,Turbulent, CGBot, Incan Monkey God Studios,Massive Black, Conley Swofford Media, Crytek (please consult this link to check out the full list of SC developer teams and their assignments and this video to watch their interviews and work presentations). |
Nadia Barsrallah
Nerbles
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 16:10:00 -
[2688] - Quote
i can trump your 9 years, and raise you May 2003. i have my atari orange box :P
eve was conceptualized as a complete sci-fi expierience
eve the incarna teaser trailers shows a lady blasting someones face, all the media and marketting CCP does shows people/avatar's
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2155
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 16:11:00 -
[2689] - Quote
Isis Dea wrote:Realized this isn't the best topic to throw a list down. Decided instead to make a better topic in the Ideas section of the forums for this stuff and opened it up to the public. I have a feeling this thread was made for another purpose. The topic can be found here.
Specific ideas are always nice to hear, but so far the issue wih WiS is a complete lack of corporate will to implement it.
CCP "would like " (so they say) to implement it, but they will not do it. They have no plans, and even when thinking about it, they have already discarded implementing it in the eVE client.
As trade off, we are getting NewSpace as outcome of the Hallelujah Plan, whose premise is that "adding new space worked twice in the past, let's do it a third time".
Of course, we as players may differ from both the prognosis (EVE space is underused and thus needs more space) and the cure (more space to conquer and hold and lose in horribly agonizing wars which drive the losers out of the game), but, what can we do aside of ranting?
Luckily, the CSM, and specially Malcanis, come to our rescue. In order to have any chance to succesfully convince CCP of doing what we want, this is what needs to be done:
So you have this great idea...
Quote:...or a big problem, or some interesting insight or a warning you want to make, and naturally you want your elected representatives to advocate your thoughts to CCP.
The first thing you'll want to understand is how the CSM spends its time interacting with CCP and the other CSMs.
We probably spend about half our "Skype time" talking to each other and to the people in the CSM Alumni channel.
Of the time that we spend talking with CCP employees, we probably spend ~90% discussing what they're doing or thinking of doing, or asking for perspectives on, or just commenting between each other on how things worked out.
Of the remaining 10%, we spend half or more advocating our own hot-button issues and viewpoints.
That leaves maybe 1-3 times per week that we might mention an idea that some guy on the forum mentioned.
Compare that figure to the dozens, probably hundreds of posts that will be made in that time by people who have a great idea, a problem, an insight or a concern. From the raw statistics alone, you've got about a 1% chance of your proposal even being mentioned to CCP. The good news is, you can increase your chances, and I say this as someone who's had several successes getting idea implemented outside the CSM. The bad news is, it's going to take some work. And by some, I mean a lot.
Here is an example of a basically good idea that will have approximately a 0.0% chance: "CSM Y U NO MAEK MORE RATS CLEVERAR RATTING IS BORING".
Ratting is boring, rats should be cleverer. The proposal is essentially correct and a good one, but as written this proposal won't be considered for a microsecond, because fundamentally, zero work has been put into it. If a CSM member is going to put the necessary work to get this proposal to be even looked at, why wouldn't he put that work into one of his own ideas and advocate that instead?
If you want the CSM to advocate your idea, then you need to do as much work as possible along the following lines. The better you do this, the more chance you have of persuading the CSM (and in turn CCP) that you're serious about your idea, that it's a good one, and that it's worth their while to consider.
(1) Identify a problem or an opportunity
(2) Propose a solution
(3) Explain how your solution would solve the problem/grasp the opportunity
(4) Identify possible issues/exploits with your solution
(5) Suggest ways to mitigate, circumvent or deal with those issues.
(6) Put in a bit about how your idea will either help Acquire new players or Retain existing ones. (Ideally, both!)
(7) Get lots of other people to support, comment on and offer various perspectives. Don't get supermad when someone points out a problem you hadn't thought of. Discuss it and incorporate the discussion into part (5). If someone points out some issue that's basically the death of your idea, suck it up.
(8) Accept that even if you do all that, and even if all the CSM like it and even if some devs at CCP like it, there's only a small chance that your proposal will be implemented. Ideas are cheap; dev resources are not. Furthermore, your idea might be the preserve of a team that's got an incompatible idea of their own, or they just don't have time, or they don't really talk to the CSM much, or it doesn't support the direction they're going with at this time.
Try and put some thought into structuring your idea so that it takes the minimum resources to implement, or at least so that it doesn't all have to be implemented as a monolithic entity, but can be partially implemented and then iterated on further at a later time. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
383
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:17:00 -
[2690] - Quote
http://www.mashie.org/eve/new_dress02.png the boots are on TQ.
http://www.mashie.org/eve/new_dress01.png probably will be the 20 years anniversary clothing... Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
215
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:54:00 -
[2691] - Quote
Sexy Sexy Sexy |
None ofthe Above
843
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:29:00 -
[2692] - Quote
Those two have shown up before.
Really hoping they get released this time.
They are much more appropriately designed for a space sim than whatever space-GAP designer made most of the clothes in EVE. The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
334
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:47:00 -
[2693] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Stuff I re-read the post I insulted and looked for who you were replying to. And it still really looks like you were just using Incarna as a reason for not developing WiS content. It really wasn't very clear. Having read a lot of your other posts recently, I realize that can't have been your intention however, and I owe you an apology. I'm sorry for being a ****. Won't stop me from being a **** in future however, as unfortunately being an ass hole get's results on this cesspool Eve players call a forum.
Accepted. Rum and coke for you. If we ever meet in space, let us go in with guns blazing and come out saying "GF" "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2166
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:56:00 -
[2694] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote: Accepted. Rum and coke for you. If we ever meet in space, let us go in with guns blazing and come out saying "GF"
You sir, have a deal.
That's the first time I have seen them in colour. Hopefully it won't just be those two either. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
785
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 20:38:00 -
[2695] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Looking at CQ it's easy to say: it looks cool. It'd look even cooler if say, its items reflected what you have in your hangar on this station. Maybe the view from the balcony had ships other than your active one.
But then you have to consider that CQ takes up additional loading time when you dock. It's annoying when you travel, and infuriating when time is of the essence - combat reships/refits for instance.
You could make the same argument for warp speeds. I mean, you could make stations work like hangar arrays: just pull up to one, get a list of your ships, Board it, and fly off; the need to dock introduces a bit of tactical complexity. Designing stations to act their (truly immense) size, and their hangars to work like actual hangars in an spaceport, would introduce a whole new layer of gameplay, and yes, the irritation of having to wait to get to a new ship would be part of that. There are plenty of ways around it; every dock has provisions for ships that just want to land, take fuel, and leave vs. ships that intend to be anchored for a while, or stowed. There's absolutely no reason to make them PVP-free zones, either. That just makes stations add a whole new venue for sandbox gameplay, instead of being 100% safe magic top hats that can instantly summon your fully crewed and provisioned, city-sized war machine of choice.
It's a question of whether you want EVE to be a deep, immersive universe where all of your decisions have consequences, or World of Tanks in space.
Trii Seo wrote:For once in a long, long while the developers are doing it right - looking rather carefully at what they do and addressing some very much needed issues (like the lack of low-end minerals and production slots in 0.0. Now mining there is much more viable and profitable). Hell, they're even giving us non-POS places to live in form of Depots (or Space Yurts) for those who want a home in space but can't be bothered with the whole POS thing.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the Yurt is the first step toward a complete replacement of the current POS system. CCP has been talking about structures that don't have to be anchored to celestials for a while now. Rubicon will show their first delivery on that talk. More things with interiors!
I'm not going to comment on Star Citizen partly because I think CCP should add things to the EVE Universe based on how they enrich the EVE Universe, and partly because I'll look at it when it's shipping. Incarna gave some pretty good demo, too. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2160
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 22:17:00 -
[2696] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:(...)
I'm not going to comment on Star Citizen partly because I think CCP should add things to the EVE Universe based on how they enrich the EVE Universe, and partly because I'll look at it when it's shipping. Incarna gave some pretty good demo, too.
For the time being, SC's hangar module is as useful as the CQ, as in:
- Walk around? Both allow. - Closed door to nowhere? Both have it. - See your ship? Both allow. - Refit your ship? Both allow. - Swap clothes? Both allow. - Share with other avatars? None allow.
Et cetera.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
463
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 22:58:00 -
[2697] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The rules:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.
Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.
ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Jen Takhesis
The Scope Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 23:20:00 -
[2698] - Quote
I haven't read through the entire thread, just parts of it, so forgive me if I re-tread things that have already been said.
WiS/Avatars have been almost completely bungled by CCP. They actually created a pretty awesome avatar with a decent character generator, and then everything else since has been a big, wet, crap sandwich. Pretty much all the blame should correctly go to CCP, though ignorant players helped a bit.
First, CCP built up a lot of anticipation with pre-release videos and discussions about how awesome avatars were and how there would be nifty corporate board room and places to meet up with people. Most people were excited.
Second, CCP released avatars in the worst possible way. They released the avatar in a captain's quarters with no possible interaction with other player avatars. Clothing customizations were ridiculously limited and ridiculously expensive. And the rest of the patch sucked for people who weren't excited about avatars. Everyone went ballistic, even the people who had looked forward to avatars -- me included. People cancelled accounts and protested and burned the world.
Third, CCP, shocked by the vehemence of outrage, stepped back from WiS and avatars, refocused on space-pew and relegated WiS to the dustbin of history. Occasionally CCP makes a tentative effort to say something about creating "meaningful gameplay" because of the space-pew crowd's complaints about WiS not contributing to space-pew.
What went wrong and how should it have gone? One of the most important factors of avatars is player identification with the ingame character. That ranges from "I want to be this character" to "the character looks just how I imagined him/her." The avatar generator was the first step in that process, but the second step is the clothing. First big fail by CCP. The avatar generator is decent, but there isn't really enough variety to distinguish all players. There are a lot of Gallente females looking very similar to my avatar. Clothing would have a big step in that direction, but CCP chose to release avatars with about six different outfits at a cost of $10 -$100. Ludicrous. There should have been hundreds of options at very low prices. Why pay $100 to look just like everyone else?
Next, there wall all the build up by CCP about how people would be able to meet in the stations and then everyone was stuck in a box by themselves. Even people who wanted avatars felt "WTF!?" Many complained about the lack of contribution to space pew. Many just complained because what was given was a teeny fraction of what was promised. CCP has wrongly taken this response to mean that everyone wants some kind of super game with avatars. But just being able to meet other random avatars in a station would be a huge boon to EvE. The players who say this would be useful are ignorant savages, to put it nicely. Faces, even fake internet ones, are powerful. They are far more powerful than most people suspect. Even an fake attractive face, one that people know is fake -- heck, one that people know is not only fake, but probably not the same gender as the person behind the mask -- faces change the way people interact with each other. We are so used to seeing people's faces when we talk, that even in games we tend to make judgements and inferences based on the fake face. Having avatars able to meet face to face would be a huge boon to both socializing and to corporate espionage.
I've heard many players shrug off the idea that such meeting could have effect on gameplay, but I'm sure it would be huge. People are used to corporations telling members not to chat with non-corporate members, but people see walking into a bar as different. In some ways it's less personal, hence safer, than opening a chat channel. They are more inclined to take that step into a bar full of strangers and strike up a conversation and maybe make a friend or join a corporation. Likewise, meeting a corporate diplomat or recruiter in person has a power that clicking submit on a membership form doesn't have. The powerful and game-enhancing effects of being able to meet in avatar-person have been underappreciated. If CCP were going t |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1007
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 18:42:00 -
[2699] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.
Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.
Maybe just move this thread to "Out of Pod" section? OoP looks alive while GD is half-dead with all those locked and moved topics + lately it's nearly impossible to discuss WiS without comparing EVE to other game(s). |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
286
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:58:00 -
[2700] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.
Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.
Maybe just move this thread to "Out of Pod" section? OoP looks alive while GD is half-dead with all those locked and moved topics + lately it's nearly impossible to discuss WiS without comparing EVE to other game(s).
I disagree. As soon as it moves out of General, it starts becoming a question of whether or not WiS pertains to EVE. And I argue that it most certainly does. I kinda disagree with Ezwal's notion that an intellectual discussion of how EVE competes from a business standpoint with other products isn't relevant to EVE, and good feedback for CCP, but it is what it is.
We should be able to fill another 100 pages or so in here on reasons WiS would strongly benefit EVE without mentioning other products in too much detail. |
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
640
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:32:00 -
[2701] - Quote
I agree with almost everything. Only few notes:
Jen Takhesis wrote: Third, CCP, shocked by the vehemence of outrage, stepped back from WiS and avatars, refocused on space-pew and relegated WiS to the dustbin of history.
CCP didn't really refocused on spaceship gameplay: even in that area there's no meaningfull development since years, it's only a ship stats shuffling, and some re-textures (they're not even doing new models, only swaping the existing ones). They re-focuse on Dust (just a case an avatar based FPS) and other external projects. They used (and I think managed in a direction usefull ofr them) the player rage as an excuse to put EVE in mantainence mode while working on something else (and firing some employees).
The argument "we do not develop cause players don't want developments, we learned the lesson" they used and keep using is laughable and I marvel how someone could fall for it.
The whole CQ thing only needed (and need) a limited multiavatar ennvinroment to be a good starting point. Also the whole NEX mall projects that was suposed to bring them some cash, had some sense only with a multiavar setting. People ready to spend real money for avatar clothing and outfits do not find any sense in it if nobody see those outfits anyway.
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Nadia Barsrallah
Nerbles
30
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:01:00 -
[2702] - Quote
i would buy CQ props/clothes for real money. Even if it was just a ammo box with a belt half hanging out of it, painted military green and had the words "FUSION S" on it. i wouldnt mind paying a few $ for it.
i could spend an hour or two in photoshop or 3DS/Maya / unity making a decent model, a CCP artist could do it in a coffee break...
the whole idea of WiS (walking in stations) is self-destroying. No one wants to just walk in station, thats boring. People want to fight in station, scam in station, grief in station, troll in station etc.
I bought a PS3 for DUST 514 exclusivly, and its just a press of the INPUT button on my remote to switch to it while playing eve.
I'd love for my dust 514 avatar and capsuleers to be able to interact. It be great to use a dust character to exercise in station kill rights on someone, i mean.... how cool would it be to tea bag Chribba?
The real bottleneck of all of it is time and money.
CCP has a working proto-type of exploration with multi avatar gameplay, there is a vid of them demo'ing it at a russian fan meet or something.
In station gameplay cannot be planned up or conceptualized in one forum thread or post. There are way too many unknowns and much QA, testing, and number crunching to be done.
Incarna teasers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yCcRMNT-WI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooGJy1B9SA
i would love to be the lady with the red hair, well more specifically, i'd love for it to be my dust 514 character. even the concept for kill right transfer and bounty hunting in station are awesome.
just the notion of more PvP and removing station games / meta's make station gameplay worth it.
even one "gameplay" station per NPC region isn't even unrealistic . Too many and it becomes just more wasted space and time and money.
Even 4 racial capital walkable stations is something to think about, and would be a realistic test drive before more gameplays layers are added.
CCP is nervous, and doesnt want to touch in station gameplay out of fear it won't live up to its community high standards and criticism.
Exploration is a perfect logical step.
Walking around an abandoned station with gravity flucuations, no atmosphere, and rogue drones and baddies lurking around the corner, hacking lock doors, power generators and computers, trying to find or access a hidden BPO or snazzy item...
then you get a update from your tethered covert ops frigate that someone new entered in local. its a red and you know you have 5 minutes tops before they scan down your site and destroy your un-attended ship, and then come in the station looking for you.
so you need to decide to back track through the maze, or hunker down and wait?
ejecting from a ship to explore creates Risk/Reward gameplay, killing people in station creates PvP, snazzy items creates economic incentive. easily modeled and created skins / CQ props creates revenue.
pretty sure if there was prop for enslaved minmatar, a prop for an exotic dancer, a prop for a turret / missle etc sold for $2, people would buy it.
Risk and reward gameplay More PvP Economy layers Revenue for CCP Tea-bagging Chribba
all the reasons needed to continue in station development.
its all there..... we as a community are too uncertain and too divided for CCP to confidently allocate resources to something like this. No one just wants walking in stations, and no one just wants props. the whole "EVE is spaceships" camp need to get over themselves, eve was originally conceived to be the complete sci-fi expierience. Read any old docs, articles, lore or even the game manual from the Atari orange box. EVE is supposed to be a whole sci-fi univserse.
Why would CCP license authors to make 400 page novels about their univserse? way more than half of the books takes place in stations.......
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Jen Takhesis
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:30:00 -
[2703] - Quote
Nadia Barsrallah wrote: its all there..... we as a community are too uncertain and too divided for CCP to confidently allocate resources to something like this. No one just wants walking in stations, and no one just wants props. the whole "EVE is spaceships" camp need to get over themselves, eve was originally conceived to be the complete sci-fi expierience. Read any old docs, articles, lore or even the game manual from the Atari orange box. EVE is supposed to be a whole sci-fi univserse.
Why would CCP license authors to make 400 page novels about their univserse? way more than half of the books takes place in stations.......
I don't agree with all of your points, but I do with some.
If CCP were to implement "content" in stations, then what I'd like to see is the system security, uh, system applied to different parts of the station. Not because I was want to mimic EvE's current nullsec vs highsec animosities, but because it actually would reflect popular sciene fiction. For example, from Star Wars the bar on Tatooine is obviously a nullsec bar within a low sec town -- the presence of government forces means that there is at least some kind of law enforcement, but obviously they don't care a whit about what goes on in that bar. More apt to stations, is Babylon 5. The Babylon station is mostly highsec, but the downbelow section was populated by criminals, transients and homeless, where much bad activity went on unnoticed. Yet again, the Star Trek Deep Space 9 station, another high sec station, had Quark's bar -- while not equivalent to nullsec, illegal activities and shady happenings occurred there.
I think that kind of setup could actually be used to good effect in EvE stations, should CCP ever decide to add PvE or PvP to stations.
At some level, CCP, or least elements within CCP, understands that EvE is about relationships. There is no betrayal without a trust relationship in the first place. People like to be in corporations because of relationships with other pilots. People enjoy EvE lore and books because they get involved in the relationships within the stories. It's the way we are as human beings, even for extreme introverts like me. Avatars are both the logical and emotional giant next step for improving relationships within Eve. It's sad that so few realize it. |
Jen Takhesis
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:39:00 -
[2704] - Quote
Hmm, double posted somehow. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2181
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:52:00 -
[2705] - Quote
Jen Takhesis wrote: If CCP were to implement "content" in stations, then what I'd like to see is the system security, uh, system applied to different parts of the station. Not because I was want to mimic EvE's current nullsec vs highsec animosities, but because it actually would reflect popular sciene fiction. For example, from Star Wars the bar on Tatooine is obviously a nullsec bar within a low sec town -- the presence of government forces means that there is at least some kind of law enforcement, but obviously they don't care a whit about what goes on in that bar. More apt to stations, is Babylon 5. The Babylon station is mostly highsec, but the downbelow section was populated by criminals, transients and homeless, where much bad activity went on unnoticed. Yet again, the Star Trek Deep Space 9 station, another high sec station, had Quark's bar -- while not equivalent to nullsec, illegal activities and shady happenings occurred there.
I think that kind of setup could actually be used to good effect in EvE stations, should CCP ever decide to add PvE or PvP to stations. It would also allow the use of various underutilized social skills for getting around in the station. Need to sneak onto the station because of a low security status, or into a dangerous area but you're not a criminal? Hey, your criminal connections can help you get in. Need to look around the brig? Your security connections or fast talk. I'm sure a number of hacking skills could be used around a station, too.
At some level, CCP, or least elements within CCP, understands that EvE is about relationships. There is no betrayal without a trust relationship in the first place. People like to be in corporations because of relationships with other pilots. People enjoy EvE lore and books because they get involved in the relationships within the stories. It's the way we are as human beings, even for extreme introverts like me. Avatars are both the logical and emotional giant next step for improving relationships within Eve. It's sad that so few realize it.
I love the idea that high security space systems could have low sec areas in stations. It would mean you wouldn't necessarily have to travel too far to ruin someone's day. Low sec stations could be low security with some no security areas, and null sec could have some small areas of alliance defined security with large portions of no security or player organised security.
If POSes were ever allowed to have Walking in Stations, they should be entirely player organised security. So if your daft enough to let someone un-trust worthy in and you don't bring someone to defend yourself, you will get shot and have your stuff stolen. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Flamespar
Woof Club
836
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 04:05:00 -
[2706] - Quote
I quite like the idea of being able to infiltrate a POS and take it down or otherwise disrupt its operations from the inside if their security is lax.
Activating the self destruct sequence on abandonded POS's would also be fun for the lols. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
347
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 04:08:00 -
[2707] - Quote
I would like to see an ability to STEAL an abandoned POS. That would be glorious. "you can identify eve players by looking at their cars. Since they don't drive what they can't afford to lose."-á --áBienator II |
Flamespar
Woof Club
836
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 04:12:00 -
[2708] - Quote
As long as there is a trash compactor that intruders can fall into I'm fine that that. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2190
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 07:46:00 -
[2709] - Quote
Arduemont wrote: I love the idea that high security space systems could have low sec areas in stations. It would mean you wouldn't necessarily have to travel too far to ruin someone's day. Low sec stations could be low security with some no security areas, and null sec could have some small areas of alliance defined security with large portions of no security or player organised security.
If POSes were ever allowed to have Walking in Stations, they should be entirely player organised security. So if your daft enough to let someone un-trust worthy in and you don't bring someone to defend yourself, you will get shot and have your stuff stolen.
Frankly, I don't see the use of having the most unpopulated section ever seen in a station, aka "lowsec in stations". Why should it work any more than "lowsec in space" works? Actually, provided the stornger bond to a humanoid avatar, players would be even more risk averse than they are with their ships...
So yes, maybe would be fun to ruin someone's day... but experience says that players will have their day ruined once and will not try any more, even when the only thing in stakes is a silly ship avatar and not "themselves", and that leads to a notorious lack of prey and population.
On the opposite, consensual PvP could find a niche in avatar gameplay. I personally would fancy to hold 1v1 gladiator combats via drone clones... sort of the Arena at Oblivion, but PvP. Being consensual, the rewards should be akin to those in the "duel" mechanic... that is, none directly supplied by the mechanic. I recall that at some point I worked out the details for a PvP league in space, before understanding that any kind of PvP arenas in space would kill the game. But then, avatar gameplay is a blank sheet and could be shaped into things never done before in EVE... like, actual fun and mostly unconsequential content.
(Yay, that's crazy stuff. Swordfighting in EVE with 50 million iSK mortal clones, lol. Consensual PvP in your EVE, jesusholychrist. But provided how we aren't going to get not even some clothes that look like they belong to a SF game rather than the nearest Zara, why not dream at large? ) The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1022
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 07:57:00 -
[2710] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Arduemont wrote: I love the idea that high security space systems could have low sec areas in stations. It would mean you wouldn't necessarily have to travel too far to ruin someone's day. Low sec stations could be low security with some no security areas, and null sec could have some small areas of alliance defined security with large portions of no security or player organised security.
If POSes were ever allowed to have Walking in Stations, they should be entirely player organised security. So if your daft enough to let someone un-trust worthy in and you don't bring someone to defend yourself, you will get shot and have your stuff stolen.
Frankly, I don't see the use of having the most unpopulated section ever seen in a station, aka "lowsec in stations". Why should it work any more than "lowsec in space" works? Actually, provided the stornger bond to a humanoid avatar, players would be even more risk averse than they are with their ships... So yes, maybe would be fun to ruin someone's day... but experience says that players will have their day ruined once and will not try any more, even when the only thing in stakes is a silly ship avatar and not "themselves", and that leads to a notorious lack of prey and population. On the opposite, consensual PvP could find a niche in avatar gameplay. I personally would fancy to hold 1v1 gladiator combats via drone clones... sort of the Arena at Oblivion, but PvP. Being consensual, the rewards should be akin to those in the "duel" mechanic... that is, none directly supplied by the mechanic. I recall that at some point I worked out the details for a PvP league in space, before understanding that any kind of PvP arenas in space would kill the game. But then, avatar gameplay is a blank sheet and could be shaped into things never done before in EVE... like, actual fun and mostly unconsequential content. (Yay, that's crazy stuff. Swordfighting in EVE with 50 million iSK mortal clones, lol. Consensual PvP in your EVE, jesusholychrist. But provided how we aren't going to get not even some clothes that look like they belong to a SF game rather than the nearest Zara, why not dream at large? )
In a sandbox mmo-rpg's, their is no such thing as non-consensual PvP, you make it consensual when you login. The Tears Must Flow |
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Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2186
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 09:58:00 -
[2711] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: In a sandbox mmo-rpg's, their is no such thing as non-consensual PvP, you make it consensual when you login.
Actually, you consent when you undock and if you don't want to consent, you don't have to. And a great many of the most powerful players in Eve never need to undock. This needs to change. You should consent when you login, not when you undock. If we could PvP docked up this wouldn't be an issue.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Frankly, I don't see the use of having the most unpopulated section ever seen in a station, aka "lowsec in stations". Why should it work any more than "lowsec in space" works? Actually, provided the stornger bond to a humanoid avatar, players would be even more risk averse than they are with their ships...
...
On the opposite, consensual PvP could find a niche in avatar gameplay. I personally would fancy to hold 1v1 gladiator combats via drone clones... sort of the Arena at Oblivion, but PvP. Being consensual, the rewards should be akin to those in the "duel" mechanic... that is, none directly supplied by the mechanic. I recall that at some point I worked out the details for a PvP league in space, before understanding that any kind of PvP arenas in space would kill the game. But then, avatar gameplay is a blank sheet and could be shaped into things never done before in EVE... like, actual fun and mostly unconsequential content.
Lowsec works fine. Better than sov space if you ask me. As for actual consensual PvP in stations, sure... If WiS is going to be accepted though, it needs to reflect Eve is it is now. The duelling system was a step in the direction of truly consensual PvP in Eve. Implementing something similar in Avatar forum wouldn't go against the grain. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2190
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:29:00 -
[2712] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: In a sandbox mmo-rpg's, their is no such thing as non-consensual PvP, you make it consensual when you login.
Actually, you consent when you undock and if you don't want to consent, you don't have to. And a great many of the most powerful players in Eve never need to undock. This needs to change. You should consent when you login, not when you undock. If we could PvP docked up this wouldn't be an issue. Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Frankly, I don't see the use of having the most unpopulated section ever seen in a station, aka "lowsec in stations". Why should it work any more than "lowsec in space" works? Actually, provided the stornger bond to a humanoid avatar, players would be even more risk averse than they are with their ships...
...
On the opposite, consensual PvP could find a niche in avatar gameplay. I personally would fancy to hold 1v1 gladiator combats via drone clones... sort of the Arena at Oblivion, but PvP. Being consensual, the rewards should be akin to those in the "duel" mechanic... that is, none directly supplied by the mechanic. I recall that at some point I worked out the details for a PvP league in space, before understanding that any kind of PvP arenas in space would kill the game. But then, avatar gameplay is a blank sheet and could be shaped into things never done before in EVE... like, actual fun and mostly unconsequential content.
Lowsec works fine. Better than sov space if you ask me. As for actual consensual PvP in stations, sure... If WiS is going to be accepted though, it needs to reflect Eve is it is now. The duelling system was a step in the direction of truly consensual PvP in Eve. Implementing something similar in Avatar forum wouldn't go against the grain.
"By opening this door, you will access the seedier, darker side of the station. Unspecified dangers await, but also the potential for great rewards. Are you sure that you want to enter The Bilge?"
Yes/No?
Yes
Player spawns and is ROTFLstomped by 10 guys with machineguns, who camp the door 24/7.
"You died. Do you want to activate a new clone?"
Players would be making lines to enjoy that, sure. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1023
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:42:00 -
[2713] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Arduemont wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: In a sandbox mmo-rpg's, their is no such thing as non-consensual PvP, you make it consensual when you login.
Actually, you consent when you undock and if you don't want to consent, you don't have to. And a great many of the most powerful players in Eve never need to undock. This needs to change. You should consent when you login, not when you undock. If we could PvP docked up this wouldn't be an issue. Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Frankly, I don't see the use of having the most unpopulated section ever seen in a station, aka "lowsec in stations". Why should it work any more than "lowsec in space" works? Actually, provided the stornger bond to a humanoid avatar, players would be even more risk averse than they are with their ships...
...
On the opposite, consensual PvP could find a niche in avatar gameplay. I personally would fancy to hold 1v1 gladiator combats via drone clones... sort of the Arena at Oblivion, but PvP. Being consensual, the rewards should be akin to those in the "duel" mechanic... that is, none directly supplied by the mechanic. I recall that at some point I worked out the details for a PvP league in space, before understanding that any kind of PvP arenas in space would kill the game. But then, avatar gameplay is a blank sheet and could be shaped into things never done before in EVE... like, actual fun and mostly unconsequential content.
Lowsec works fine. Better than sov space if you ask me. As for actual consensual PvP in stations, sure... If WiS is going to be accepted though, it needs to reflect Eve is it is now. The duelling system was a step in the direction of truly consensual PvP in Eve. Implementing something similar in Avatar forum wouldn't go against the grain. "By opening this door, you will access the seedier, darker side of the station. Unspecified dangers await, but also the potential for great rewards. Are you sure that you want to enter The Bilge?" Yes/No? YesPlayer spawns and is ROTFLstomped by 10 guys with machineguns, who camp the door 24/7. "You died. Do you want to activate a new clone?" Players would be making lines to enjoy that, sure.
If they don't like it, then they don't enjoy sandbox mmo-rpg's and should leave. The Tears Must Flow |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2186
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:43:00 -
[2714] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:"By opening this door, you will access the seedier, darker side of the station. Unspecified dangers await, but also the potential for great rewards. Are you sure that you want to enter The Bilge?" Yes/No? YesPlayer spawns and is ROTFLstomped by 10 guys with machineguns, who camp the door 24/7. "You died. Do you want to activate a new clone?" Players would be making lines to enjoy that, sure.
Except it doesn't make any sense to use the same system that spaceships use. It wouldn't have to be even vaguely similar.
Vaju Enki wrote: If they don't like it, then they don't enjoy sandbox mmo-rpg's and should leave.
Isn't he cute. If you don't like people's opinions, then you don't enjoy forums and should leave. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2190
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 12:04:00 -
[2715] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:"By opening this door, you will access the seedier, darker side of the station. Unspecified dangers await, but also the potential for great rewards. Are you sure that you want to enter The Bilge?" Yes/No? YesPlayer spawns and is ROTFLstomped by 10 guys with machineguns, who camp the door 24/7. "You died. Do you want to activate a new clone?" Players would be making lines to enjoy that, sure. Except it doesn't make any sense to use the same system that spaceships use. It wouldn't have to be even vaguely similar.
There are only so many ways to spawn into a non-consensual PvP zone, and all of them can either be camped or griefed, specially when you haven't got endless cubic AU of space but a rather limited map.
Most abuses will come from "hunters", but also there are spawn methods that allow abuse by "prey". And all in all, non-consensual PvP is a feature guaranteed to kill itself; CCP should rather save themselves the trouble and not make yet another game about it. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1024
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 12:10:00 -
[2716] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:"By opening this door, you will access the seedier, darker side of the station. Unspecified dangers await, but also the potential for great rewards. Are you sure that you want to enter The Bilge?" Yes/No? YesPlayer spawns and is ROTFLstomped by 10 guys with machineguns, who camp the door 24/7. "You died. Do you want to activate a new clone?" Players would be making lines to enjoy that, sure. Except it doesn't make any sense to use the same system that spaceships use. It wouldn't have to be even vaguely similar. Vaju Enki wrote: If they don't like it, then they don't enjoy sandbox mmo-rpg's and should leave.
Isn't he cute. If you don't like people's opinions, then you don't enjoy forums and should leave.
It's not a matter of liking/not liking other people's opinions, it's a matter of facts, EvE Online is a sandbox mmo-rpg's, if you don't like the genre, don't play it. The Tears Must Flow |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1024
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 12:15:00 -
[2717] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Arduemont wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:"By opening this door, you will access the seedier, darker side of the station. Unspecified dangers await, but also the potential for great rewards. Are you sure that you want to enter The Bilge?" Yes/No? YesPlayer spawns and is ROTFLstomped by 10 guys with machineguns, who camp the door 24/7. "You died. Do you want to activate a new clone?" Players would be making lines to enjoy that, sure. Except it doesn't make any sense to use the same system that spaceships use. It wouldn't have to be even vaguely similar. There are only so many ways to spawn into a non-consensual PvP zone, and all of them can either be camped or griefed, specially when you haven't got endless cubic AU of space but a rather limited map. Most abuses will come from "hunters", but also there are spawn methods that allow abuse by "prey". And all in all, non-consensual PvP is a feature guaranteed to kill itself; CCP should rather save themselves the trouble and not make yet another game about it.
Yes because CCP biggest success is not a game that resolves around non-consensual PvP. I think CCP should do a kindergarten themepark avatar game and attach it to a sandbox game, makes perfect sense. The Tears Must Flow |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
459
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 12:37:00 -
[2718] - Quote
for WIS to have any validity, it has to be a dangerous and a lucrative thing to do. Which is why I think there should be avatar based pvp in stations, fist fights, knife fights, gun battles, you name it. Ok you might have law enforcement but they should be like faction/corporate police where they are easily overpowered as they are ordinary humans not enhanced posthumans like capsuleers and dust bunnies.
Also as per the trailer thing should happen 'off grid' away from the network like buying boosters direct, paying for hits on people or sneaking into medical to **** up someone else's clone. They thing they've got a good quality clone than can handle all of their sp, but you've replaced it with a clone grade alpha... I wouldn't want to be that person the next time they get podded.
What about stealing equipment and loot from someone's hanger. Lifting a ship out from underneath them.
That's enough from me, but WIS is worthless unless it's dangerous, has consequences and makes you wonder even if you should unlink from the pod, because once your out of that pod, you are just a human, an enhanced one but human nonetheless with all of the vulnerabilities and frailities that come from that. Plus 0.5 stations should be the most dangerous around, filled with the high pressure scum of highsec and the seasoned criminals of low and the psychopaths of null....
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2191
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 12:44:00 -
[2719] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:There are only so many ways to spawn into a non-consensual PvP zone, and all of them can either be camped or griefed, specially when you haven't got endless cubic AU of space but a rather limited map.
Most abuses will come from "hunters", but also there are spawn methods that allow abuse by "prey". And all in all, non-consensual PvP is a feature guaranteed to kill itself; CCP should rather save themselves the trouble and not make yet another game about it. Yes because CCP biggest success is not a game that resolves around non-consensual PvP. I think CCP should do a kindergarten themepark avatar game and attach it to a sandbox game, makes perfect sense.
And what makes you think that succesfully burning gasoline is going to keep you warm once the gasoline is gone?
There's nothing less consensual than a sov war, and such wars are effectively destroying the nullsec playerbase and dragging the game behind them.
Right now, CCP is starting a 3-year development plan intended to rescue the "successful" non-consensual PvP of its impending demise, by expanding it to new areas of space with different attributes and mechanics, all because the original plan to use DUST to that purpose is struggling for its life.
In the process, everything not related to non-consensual PvP is likely to be neglected, leaving 70% of the player base with the short end of resources and love.
And all because the successful nullsec sov, non-consensual PvP mechanics are working in all their glory in order to destroy themselves within the next two years. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1024
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 12:49:00 -
[2720] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:There are only so many ways to spawn into a non-consensual PvP zone, and all of them can either be camped or griefed, specially when you haven't got endless cubic AU of space but a rather limited map.
Most abuses will come from "hunters", but also there are spawn methods that allow abuse by "prey". And all in all, non-consensual PvP is a feature guaranteed to kill itself; CCP should rather save themselves the trouble and not make yet another game about it. Yes because CCP biggest success is not a game that resolves around non-consensual PvP. I think CCP should do a kindergarten themepark avatar game and attach it to a sandbox game, makes perfect sense. And what makes you think that succesfully burning gasoline is going to keep you warm once the gasoline is gone? There's nothing less consensual than a sov war, and such wars are effectively destroying the nullsec playerbase and dragging the game behind them. Right now, CCP is starting a 3-year development plan intended to rescue the "successful" non-consensual PvP of its impending demise, by expanding it to new areas of space with different attributes and mechanics, all because the original plan to use DUST to that purpose is struggling for its life. In the process, everything not related to non-consensual PvP is likely to be neglected, leaving 70% of the player base with the short end of resources and love. And all because the successful nullsec sov, non-consensual PvP mechanics are working in all their glory in order to destroy themselves within the next two years.
You don't understand sandbox mmo-rpg's, simple as that.
The Tears Must Flow |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2191
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:20:00 -
[2721] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:There are only so many ways to spawn into a non-consensual PvP zone, and all of them can either be camped or griefed, specially when you haven't got endless cubic AU of space but a rather limited map.
Most abuses will come from "hunters", but also there are spawn methods that allow abuse by "prey". And all in all, non-consensual PvP is a feature guaranteed to kill itself; CCP should rather save themselves the trouble and not make yet another game about it. Yes because CCP biggest success is not a game that resolves around non-consensual PvP. I think CCP should do a kindergarten themepark avatar game and attach it to a sandbox game, makes perfect sense. And what makes you think that succesfully burning gasoline is going to keep you warm once the gasoline is gone? There's nothing less consensual than a sov war, and such wars are effectively destroying the nullsec playerbase and dragging the game behind them. Right now, CCP is starting a 3-year development plan intended to rescue the "successful" non-consensual PvP of its impending demise, by expanding it to new areas of space with different attributes and mechanics, all because the original plan to use DUST to that purpose is struggling for its life. In the process, everything not related to non-consensual PvP is likely to be neglected, leaving 70% of the player base with the short end of resources and love. And all because the successful nullsec sov, non-consensual PvP mechanics are working in all their glory in order to destroy themselves within the next two years. You don't understand sandbox mmo-rpg's, simple as that.
You don't understand that humans avoid stress. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2187
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:49:00 -
[2722] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: You don't understand sandbox mmo-rpg's, simple as that.
Vaju, the reason I rarely reply to you (and the reason that when I do, I am intentionally insulting), is because your a terrible poster. I don't mean that your a troll, or that you are only ever insulting. Those two things, I don't care about. I often troll, and I am often intentionally insulting. The reason you are a terrible poster is because your posts are either irrelevant or wrong.
In this particular case, your post happens to be both wrong an irrelevant. Who gives a **** if the game is a sandbox? Minecraft is a ******* sandbox. Skyrim is a singleplayer, and that's a ******* sandbox. Also, "this is about facts" is something that people say when they don't even know what a fact is.
Your an idiot Vaju. One of the stupidest cunts to shiptoast of the forums. An irrelevant waste of of biological matter, filling a forum with a mass of irrelevant wasted data.
In this instance I even empathise (or agree even) with your objection to Ish's terrible idea that WiS PvP should be consensual only. But that doesn't make you any more of a waste of space. You might as well not be posting. Go somewhere else.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Broker Agent
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:52:00 -
[2723] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: You don't understand sandbox mmo-rpg's, simple as that.
Vaju, the reason I rarely reply to you (and the reason that when I do, I am intentionally insulting), is because your a terrible poster. I don't mean that your a troll, or that you are only ever insulting. Those two things, I don't care about. I often troll, and I am often intentionally insulting. The reason you are a terrible poster is because your posts are either irrelevant or wrong. In this particular case, your post happens to be both wrong an irrelevant. Who gives a **** if the game is a sandbox? Minecraft is a ******* sandbox. Skyrim is a singleplayer, and that's a ******* sandbox. Also, "this is about facts" is something that people say when they don't even know what a fact is. Your an idiot Vaju. One of the stupidest cunts to shiptoast of the forums. An irrelevant waste of of biological matter, filling a forum with a mass of irrelevant wasted data. In this instance I even empathise (or agree even) with your objection to Ish's terrible idea that WiS PvP should be consensual only. But that doesn't make you any more of a waste of space. You might as well not be posting. Go somewhere else.
HAHAHAHA.
Oh my God. I don't think I have ever seen anyone burnt so bad. That's like, full thickness 90% burned. Someone put Vaju on palliative support. You don't survive a burn like that. Ouch. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2191
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 14:04:00 -
[2724] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:(...)
In this instance I even empathise (or agree even) with your objection to Ish's terrible idea that WiS PvP should be consensual only. But that doesn't make you any more of a waste of space. You might as well not be posting. Go somewhere else.
I didn't said that. You can have all the "lowsec" station content you want, as long as you realize that it will be wasted and as long as that doesn't detracts a single cent from adding content to "hisec" station content.
As I stated above, non-consensual PvP ends killing itself and requires a lot of periodical refurbishing, plus a steady influx of unsuspecting wretches. The former is expensive and the later always runs out. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
200
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:24:00 -
[2725] - Quote
Non-consensual PvP will not kill itself. Those who walk away after an autocannon-infused reality check will either return for more or were too weak to fight anyway. Those fights merely begin EVE's trademark cycle of destruction - killing someone isn't a way to make peace, it's a way to make him angry and lead to more bloodshed.
The reason sov wars are in a troubled state is that value of those territories decrease. Buffs to non-sov space and repeated nerfs to 0.0 have pushed the value down to the point it's actually more profitable to live outside of it and ninja-plex if anything. Holding sov means paying upkeep, costs of fueling towers, maintaining beacons, bridges and upgrades.
It's often assumed that big empires will ditch territory to reduce cost as their revenue decreases because they won't be able to pay the upkeep. Said assumption is false. Big entities are used to the joys of fat warchests and SRP and their only response is finding a new revenue stream (as of now, Rental) and, if adapting requires it - expansion (war of Fountain, claiming Delve, Querious and Period Basis as an addition.)
Flawed Dominion sov mechanics play their role as well, with structures having massive amounts of hitpoints that require lengthy grinds but as we've seen (statement about 'reasons why we're not going to war' during the FA/TEST reset vs. invasion that followed later) if you provide enough motivation for an invasion - it'll happen.
It'll happen and the war will make the news. Supercapitals will fall, dozens of carriers will become trapped with no way out. Events like the fatal decision to warp fifteen supercarriers to a station of K-6, or the suicidal charge of remaining TEST forces into the fleets sieging 6VDT to take down a Naglfar before they were decimated by unending torrent of rail fire from Baltec megathrons will happen and be remembered. Great heists and battles like Asakai will make the news.
And as long as EVE is EVE, none of it will be a staged, consensual war where two parties agree on a honourable showdown. It won't be a "world-shaping' event put together by the devs once in two years where you merely act out a script put before you. It'll be a clash of empires built by the players - with those defeated facing a threat of being put into the history books of EVE.
Hell, with veterans of those conflicts stories will travel as far as hisec, inspiring new pilots to enlist and join the fight in an atron or slasher or whatever will be the tackler of that day. Time will come he'll get his skills up and look into other fields his empire has to offer - mainline fleet fighter, logistics? Capital pilot? Logistical backbone of the alliance, managing deployments? Recon? There's more to wars than just a big blob, and each of them play a role in victory.
CCP doesn't need to interfere and make the fight more fair or even think about the words "consensual pvp". They just need to take a look at reasons and means to fight. The more reasons to wage war the better. The more ways to do it the more fields an aspiring pilot can look into.
Recognition is another thing - it'd be nice for the world to hear about TEST and the fight in Fountain. Most of it might've been unwise from an economic standpoint, but it sure as balls was awesome. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2187
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:36:00 -
[2726] - Quote
To me, non-consensual PvP is important. I've hosted, coded and modelled custom servers on some games and although I always allow some almost completely safe areas, the rest of the areas have always been full PvP. No consent required.
Because consensual PvP is boring. It doesn't mean anything. The best wins I have ever had have usually occurred as a results of someone thinking they can get the better of me. Me and three other cruisers (and one Tier 3 BC) killed 15 people (in a gang of 18) in BCs with logi. We wouldn't have engaged them given the choice, but we killed them, and took no losses. That is the best fight I have ever had. Fights like that don't happen with consensual PvP. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1105
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:41:00 -
[2727] - Quote
Considering amount of WiS cosmetics in collector's edition (cyber arm, new monocle, 8 tattoos) including two completely new types of items - I suspect CCP is making advances into WiS. And they still have time to make 2 expansions before *the other* game will be released + now CCP can borrow ideas from hangar in *the other* game (instead of trying risky experiments). |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
200
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:57:00 -
[2728] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:To me, non-consensual PvP is important. I've hosted, coded and modelled custom servers on some games and although I always allow some almost completely safe areas, the rest of the areas have always been full PvP. No consent required.
Because consensual PvP is boring. It doesn't mean anything. The best wins I have ever had have usually occurred as a results of someone thinking they can get the better of me. Me and three other cruisers (and one Tier 3 BC) killed 15 people (in a gang of 18) in BCs with logi. We wouldn't have engaged them given the choice, but we killed them, and took no losses. That is the best fight I have ever had. Fights like that don't happen with consensual PvP.
Sov is neither here nor there to me. I hate the PvP style, and I hate the lifestyle. But non-consensual PvP is especially important there.
If we have WiS, it needs to (eventually) have non-consensual PvP to a similar level that Eve does. It will have to be different because suicide ganking, and gate camping and things like that would just make no sense in Avatar form. It would be stupid. But I think being mugged or stabbed going down the wrong alleyway would make it that much more interesting and thrilling. There needs to be some risk.
That'd I'd agree with, though what still remains is the matter of dev resources that aren't infinite. And, let's face it, it'd take a lot of testing effort to make it shine - in MMOs players break things quickly. If they break them too much, your super-awesome feature ends up as a wall of tears.
If anything, the new items are a shiney thing to put on your portrait. Nothing wrong with that, we needed more variety but if WiS were to happen it'd have to kick off as something amazing to shut up those still burned by Incarna. Or at least get them not to react violently. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2189
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 18:27:00 -
[2729] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: That'd I'd agree with, though what still remains is the matter of dev resources that aren't infinite. And, let's face it, it'd take a lot of testing effort to make it shine - in MMOs players break things quickly. If they break them too much, your super-awesome feature ends up as a wall of tears.
If anything, the new items are a shiney thing to put on your portrait. Nothing wrong with that, we needed more variety but if WiS were to happen it'd have to kick off as something amazing to shut up those still burned by Incarna. Or at least get them not to react violently.
Well, whether or not you get seen committing a crime should be already being developed in WoD. Whether or not you get 'seen' doing certain things is a very important element in the World of Darkness franchise so we can almost guarantee that will get some decent amount of development time (that is if CCP don't ruin an amazing franchise).
As for CCP's resources being limited. I agree heartily. Which is why I object so much to CCP developing 5 games when only one of them is pulling in an income. It's lunacy to the point of stupidity. If they waited until some of them were pulling in an income before adding more projects we could be seeing significantly more content from Eve. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 21:38:00 -
[2730] - Quote
CAN WE SEE WHAT YOU HAVE AFTER 1 YEAR? |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
462
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 21:49:00 -
[2731] - Quote
Broker Agent wrote:Arduemont wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: You don't understand sandbox mmo-rpg's, simple as that.
Vaju, the reason I rarely reply to you (and the reason that when I do, I am intentionally insulting), is because your a terrible poster. I don't mean that your a troll, or that you are only ever insulting. Those two things, I don't care about. I often troll, and I am often intentionally insulting. The reason you are a terrible poster is because your posts are either irrelevant or wrong. In this particular case, your post happens to be both wrong an irrelevant. Who gives a **** if the game is a sandbox? Minecraft is a ******* sandbox. Skyrim is a singleplayer, and that's a ******* sandbox. Also, "this is about facts" is something that people say when they don't even know what a fact is. Your an idiot Vaju. One of the stupidest cunts to shiptoast of the forums. An irrelevant waste of of biological matter, filling a forum with a mass of irrelevant wasted data. In this instance I even empathise (or agree even) with your objection to Ish's terrible idea that WiS PvP should be consensual only. But that doesn't make you any more of a waste of space. You might as well not be posting. Go somewhere else. HAHAHAHA. Oh my God. I don't think I have ever seen anyone burnt so bad. That's like, full thickness 90% burned. Someone put Vaju on palliative support. You don't survive a burn like that. Ouch.
I checked with the medics and only vaju's taint survived... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
200
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 22:08:00 -
[2732] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote:CAN WE SEE WHAT YOU HAVE AFTER 1 YEAR?
Likely nothing, the early prototypes had barely any graphics content and IIRC, Team Avatar was reassigned.
I honestly think Valkyrie sounds like a really, really dumb move. Jumping on a gimmicky thing like Oculus Rift with a full-fledged title sounds iffy at best. Then again, last I heard the team behind Valkyrie has about five people so it's not that much of a strain - looks like they're testing the waters.
Sides from that five-man team, Reykjavik is supposedly focused on EVE. One thing I'll always say about EVE's code is the fact that due to its age (and inexperience of CCP at the time) the whole thing likely looks like something written by Cthulhu when he was drunk on brenevin, and then lost for five millenia in the Eye of Terror. It's probably also not documented well, if at all.
No seriously, POS guns use rat AI. You ever wondered why a POS shot you - that's why.
Codewise, EVE is a Jenga tower the size of Burj Dubai and CCP finally realized they need to stop playing the game drunk. So the code monkeys are likely reworking a lot of things from scratch. See: their latest changes to the engine, V3 was reportedly the beginning. They're supposedly reworking the entire lighting system, and given the recent 'Heyho, DX11'! thing in the SiSi client I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some of that in the upcoming expansion.
With changes to the basics in mind though, CCP can't really afford to make haphazard modifications to appease the crowd. If you're reworking the base of a Jenga tower and in the meantime stack some more crap on top, the whole thing will at worst fall apart and at best become a colossal clusterfuck. So they won't be publishing anything shiney till they sort out the underlying issues. Although no doubt a lot of people into this stuff would appreciate an occasional devblog about their progress. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 22:51:00 -
[2733] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote:CAN WE SEE WHAT YOU HAVE AFTER 1 YEAR? After one year? You mean what's left after all the talk they did over multiple years? Let's see, fanfest video about WiS from 2008, and then what they got now is this prototype with a bunch of placeholders, from visit to Russia.
Not much to look at, but you should appreciate the audience laughs and giggles. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
648
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 23:23:00 -
[2734] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: Codewise, EVE is a Jenga tower the size of Burj Dubai and CCP finally realized they need to stop playing the game drunk. So the code monkeys are likely reworking a lot of things from scratch. See: their latest changes to the engine, V3 was reportedly the beginning. They're supposedly reworking the entire lighting system, and given the recent 'Heyho, DX11'! thing in the SiSi client I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some of that in the upcoming expansion.
Yes, this is what the company and their in-game servants (do not trust them) keep saying since years.
5 years is not enough? Out of curiosity: how long it takes to optimize this code? 10, 20, 30 years? Longer than to send a real spaceship with a human crews to Mars? Soon real world spaceships will be overpowered in respect of EVE's ones.
That ancient code has been already rewrote/optimized years ago.
CCP can deliver far more and better, they proved it. DX11? Cool. But to give you an idea, the only Trinity expansion released:
- total graphic engine rewrite (upgrade to DX9, new shaders and textures, everything and for almost any item in game)
- 5 new classes of ships. And no, not 5 new ships, new classes: Heavy interdictor, JF, Black Ops, EAF, Marausers But to have. And "new" doesn't mean only tweaking some stats, means: new roles, new models, new concepts.
- The ususal bunch of minor improvements, bug fixing, tweaks, and so on. Equivalent to what is now sold as whole expansion.
And this was an ordinary expansion, people was also upset because CCP wasn't able to deliver in Trinity (as they promitted on beginning) also Factional Warfare and WiS (was called "Ambulation").
CCP is a great company and able to deliver far more than now when they have a strategic vision and are not allocated on Dust, Valkyrie, some cards game or anything else.
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
200
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 23:37:00 -
[2735] - Quote
The Incarna/today stretch that changed CCP's heading is 2 years alone. The talk about POS code revamp is even younger than that.
Those "5 new" classes had assets half-baked for them. The only thing they really actually had done is retextures of base models (bah, mostly recolours) and were released in a state that begs for a huge WTF. A good look at bonuses of Black Ops BS's could shed some light: Panther, battleship, gets a velocity bonus. No, not only cloaked velocity bonus: an actual bonus to velocity.
As for a graphics engine rewrite - it's likely that it was merely released then, in development for some time before, along with assets. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
None ofthe Above
849
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 00:11:00 -
[2736] - Quote
Interesting things from Pokethulu in EVE Vegas:
New EVE lead designer (Pator? SP?) is from World of Darkness.
Nex store is going to be revamped, probably moved to an online store (or accounts? extension of plex store?) and the redemption service.
Interesting. The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
836
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 01:01:00 -
[2737] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Interesting things from Pokethulu in EVE Vegas:
New EVE lead designer (Pator? SP?) is from World of Darkness.
Nex store is going to be revamped, probably moved to an online store (or accounts? extension of plex store?) and the redemption service.
Interesting.
Long overdue. But not terribly interesting. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
836
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 03:03:00 -
[2738] - Quote
One interesting tidbit from Pokethulu is that they view avatar gameplay (ie station gameplay) as being the bridge that links the various EVE games.
I'd still rather explore derelicts and vent people into space. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2195
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 08:11:00 -
[2739] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:One interesting tidbit from Pokethulu is that they view avatar gameplay (ie station gameplay) as being the bridge that links the various EVE games.
I'd still rather explore derelicts and vent people into space.
Will have to check that Pokethulu guy. The very fact that they talk about avatars is like, "oh really?". The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1025
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 09:02:00 -
[2740] - Quote
Arduemont, you probably forgot to take your Xanax suppository before posting this diarrhea on EvE Online forums, but anyway let's stay debunking all your silly claims.
Arduemont wrote:Vaju, the reason I rarely reply to you (and the reason that when I do, I am intentionally insulting), is because your a terrible poster. I don't mean that your a troll, or that you are only ever insulting. Those two things, I don't care about. I often troll, and I am often intentionally insulting. The reason you are a terrible poster is because your posts are either irrelevant or wrong.
Bold statement, but you see, my posts on this forums are about EvE Online, explicitly about the sandbox mmo-rpg's elements, im a paladin of emergent gameplay and i will always defend it from themeparkers. You on the other hand are clueless about anything related with this subject, you only post about pedo avatar imbecilic barbie stuff, your posts are completely wrong and irrelevant.
Arduemont wrote:In this particular case, your post happens to be both wrong an irrelevant. Who gives a **** if the game is a sandbox? Minecraft is a ******* sandbox. Skyrim is a singleplayer, and that's a ******* sandbox. Also, "this is about facts" is something that people say when they don't even know what a fact is.
This is another example that clearly shows that you are a ignorant on the subject of sandbox mmo-rpg's, you are out of your natural habitat (the avatar pedo barbie stuff). So let me explain, please read this very slowly, so your brain can process it. Take your time...
EvE Online is a complex sandbox mmo-rpg game, it's all about Player vs Player interactive competition, Gathering Resources, Manufacturing and Destruction, it's all Player vs Player, even when you're logged out.
And there a good reason for this to happen.
There is a cycle of life in sandbox mmo-rpg games. Like a said before, Gathering Resources, Manufacturing and Destruction, all of them are interconnected to each other and without them, the game is broken. All are equally important and can't work without each other. It's an ecosystem, if you break a part of the cycle, you break the game.
What happened to the great sandbox mmo-rpg called Ultima Online, the developers created a safe haven in the game for carebears, with this change the cycle was broken, no more "Destruction" so their was no need for "Manufacturing" and obvious, no need for "Gathering" either. The game died, just like that.
You can't have a sandbox mmo-rpg game without non-consensual PvP. You can't add a new feature in a sandbox mmo-rpg game without non-consensual PvP. It's not possible.
Arduemont wrote:Your an idiot Vaju. One of the stupidest cunts to shiptoast on the forums. An irrelevant waste of of biological matter, filling a forum with a mass of irrelevant wasted data.
This coming from someone like you, i can only take this as a compliment.
Arduemont wrote:In this instance I even empathise (or agree even) with your objection to Ish's terrible idea that WiS PvP should be consensual only. But that doesn't make you any more of a waste of space. You might as well not be posting. Go somewhere else.
If you are so worried about waste of database space, why do you keep posting brainless stuff that doesn't have anything to do with EvE Online? Why do you keep spaming this forums with irrelevent trash? Why are you even posting here?
The aswner is quite simple, you either have brain cancer or you are a member of the two digit IQ club, i senselessly hope you are just a stupid person...
To sum it up, your the one that shouldn't be posting on this forums, a place like second life forums or some .onion/deepweb pedophile website would fit you like a glove. The Tears Must Flow |
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Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
259
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 10:12:00 -
[2741] - Quote
Quote: What happened to the great sandbox mmo-rpg called Ultima Online, the developers created a safe haven in the game for carebears, with this change the cycle was broken, no more "Destruction" so their was no need for "Manufacturing" and obvious, no need for "Gathering" either. The game died, just like that.
It's still one of the oldest MMO's out there, alive and well. Last I heard still has over 100 000 players. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
836
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 10:15:00 -
[2742] - Quote
Being able to determine your level of safety/risk is one of the cornerstones of EVE online. It's not going away.
Oh and reported for calling players pedophiles. Seriously if you can't make an argument without resorting to childish name calling you've already lost. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2190
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 10:38:00 -
[2743] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Arduemont, you probably forgot to take your Xanax suppository before posting this diarrhea on EvE Online forums, but anyway let's stay debunking all your silly claims. Arduemont wrote:Vaju, the reason I rarely reply to you (and the reason that when I do, I am intentionally insulting), is because your a terrible poster. I don't mean that your a troll, or that you are only ever insulting. Those two things, I don't care about. I often troll, and I am often intentionally insulting. The reason you are a terrible poster is because your posts are either irrelevant or wrong. Bold statement, but you see, my posts on this forums are about EvE Online, explicitly about the sandbox mmo-rpg's elements, im a paladin of emergent gameplay and i will always defend it from themeparkers. You on the other hand are clueless about anything related with this subject, you only post about pedo avatar imbecilic barbie stuff, your posts are completely wrong and irrelevant. Arduemont wrote:In this particular case, your post happens to be both wrong an irrelevant. Who gives a **** if the game is a sandbox? Minecraft is a ******* sandbox. Skyrim is a singleplayer, and that's a ******* sandbox. Also, "this is about facts" is something that people say when they don't even know what a fact is. This is another example that clearly shows that you are a ignorant on the subject of sandbox mmo-rpg's, you are out of your natural habitat (the avatar pedo barbie stuff). So let me explain, please read this very slowly, so your brain can process it. Take your time... EvE Online is a complex sandbox mmo-rpg game, it's all about Player vs Player interactive competition, Gathering Resources, Manufacturing and Destruction, it's all Player vs Player, even when you're logged out. And there a good reason for this to happen. There is a cycle of life in sandbox mmo-rpg games. Like a said before, Gathering Resources, Manufacturing and Destruction, all of them are interconnected to each other and without them, the game is broken. All are equally important and can't work without each other. It's an ecosystem, if you break a part of the cycle, you break the game. What happened to the great sandbox mmo-rpg called Ultima Online, the developers created a safe haven in the game for carebears, with this change the cycle was broken, no more "Destruction" so their was no need for "Manufacturing" and obvious, no need for "Gathering" either. The game died, just like that. You can't have a sandbox mmo-rpg game without non-consensual PvP. You can't add a new feature in a sandbox mmo-rpg game without non-consensual PvP. It's not possible.Arduemont wrote:Your an idiot Vaju. One of the stupidest cunts to shiptoast on the forums. An irrelevant waste of of biological matter, filling a forum with a mass of irrelevant wasted data. This coming from someone like you, i can only take this as a compliment. Arduemont wrote:In this instance I even empathise (or agree even) with your objection to Ish's terrible idea that WiS PvP should be consensual only. But that doesn't make you any more of a waste of space. You might as well not be posting. Go somewhere else. If you are so worried about waste of database space, why do you keep posting brainless stuff that doesn't have anything to do with EvE Online? Why do you keep spaming this forums with irrelevent trash? Why are you even posting here? The aswner is quite simple, you either have brain cancer or you are a member of the two digit IQ club, i senselessly hope you are just a stupid person... To sum it up, your the one that shouldn't be posting on this forums, a place like second life forums or some .onion/deepweb pedophile website would fit you like a glove.
Did not read.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
650
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 11:59:00 -
[2744] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Quote: What happened to the great sandbox mmo-rpg called Ultima Online, the developers created a safe haven in the game for carebears, with this change the cycle was broken, no more "Destruction" so their was no need for "Manufacturing" and obvious, no need for "Gathering" either. The game died, just like that.
It's still one of the oldest MMO's out there, alive and well. Last I heard still has over 100 000 players.
The first MMORPG and a great one.
I think is around 100-150k subscribers on official servers. But since they allow server emulators, UO always have an ammount of unofficial shards ran by fans. So I think the numbers can be aaround 300k. That's not bad (not like EVE has much more...) considering how old is the game.
And, yes, UO - as any sanbox game - always had strong attention for gameplay related to housing (becuase this is what WiS should be in EVE), character cloths, furnitures and so on. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1028
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 12:03:00 -
[2745] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Quote: What happened to the great sandbox mmo-rpg called Ultima Online, the developers created a safe haven in the game for carebears, with this change the cycle was broken, no more "Destruction" so their was no need for "Manufacturing" and obvious, no need for "Gathering" either. The game died, just like that.
It's still one of the oldest MMO's out there, alive and well. Last I heard still has over 100 000 players.
The sandbox mmo-rpg's called Ultima Online died with Trammel expansion, the game changed into a themepark mmo-rpg and all of us left the game.
You can still play the original Ultima Online sandbox mmo-rpg in private servers. The Tears Must Flow |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1028
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 12:05:00 -
[2746] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Being able to determine your level of safety/risk is one of the cornerstones of EVE online. It's not going away.
Oh and reported for calling players pedophiles. Seriously if you can't make an argument without resorting to childish name calling you've already lost.
Resorting to childish name calling? You must be talking about Arduemont diarrhea post. The Tears Must Flow |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2190
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 12:07:00 -
[2747] - Quote
Whoa, double post and a rant above that. Watch out all, he's pissed. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1028
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 12:14:00 -
[2748] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Whoa, double post and a rant above that. Watch out all, he's pissed.
Cry more Vaju. I can almost taste your tears through my PC screen.
Im crying?!? the stupid is strong in this one... Just read your posts, your the one doing the crying, basically this all thread is you and 4-5 avatar freaks crying.
The truth is this, im laughting at you, and every time you post you expose your staggering ignorance. The Tears Must Flow |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2190
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 12:26:00 -
[2749] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Arduemont wrote:Whoa, double post and a rant above that. Watch out all, he's pissed.
Cry more Vaju. I can almost taste your tears through my PC screen. Im crying?!? the stupid is strong in this one... Just read your posts, your the one doing the crying, basically this all thread is you and 4-5 avatar freaks crying. The truth is this, im crying at you, and every time you post you expose your staggering ignorance.
If that were true I might actually be offended. Actually, I doubt it. Keep posting the tears Vaj. Your alone in this thread. Just one whining little ***** pissed that some people might want something that you don't. Post and post and post, it won't do you any good. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
201
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 12:28:00 -
[2750] - Quote
:popcorn:
But seriously, the news about Nex are intriguing. Would be cool if they finally released all the items. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
|
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1033
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 12:49:00 -
[2751] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Being able to determine your level of safety/risk is one of the cornerstones of EVE online. It's not going away.
Oh and reported for calling players pedophiles. Seriously if you can't make an argument without resorting to childish name calling you've already lost.
I already reported him a few pages ago for the same thing. Hope they have a 3 strikes policy here. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Broker Agent
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 13:58:00 -
[2752] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote::popcorn:
But seriously, the news about Nex are intriguing. Would be cool if they finally released all the items.
To quote myself in another thread;
Broker Agent wrote:So long as they release some more clothing with a NeX revamp, then great. If they don't release anything new and just revamp the NeX store, I am going to be seriously pissed.
|
Aria Ning
White Rabbit Industries
16
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:20:00 -
[2753] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: What happened to the great sandbox mmo-rpg called Ultima Online, the developers created a safe haven in the game for carebears, with this change the cycle was broken, no more "Destruction" so their was no need for "Manufacturing" and obvious, no need for "Gathering" either. The game died, just like that.
Well technically UO didn't die with the creation of Trammel, in fact its subscription base grew substantially http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png.
But it definitely wasn't the same game though. However, the game didn't start it's decline until the Age of Shadows when the devs decided to implement stats on gear, similar to what Diablo and WoW does. In fact the day I quit was the day I installed Age of Shadows and I played the game from the very beginning. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1109
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:20:00 -
[2754] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Considering amount of WiS cosmetics in collector's edition (cyber arm, new monocle, 8 tattoos) including two completely new types of items - I suspect CCP is making advances into WiS. And they still have time to make 2 expansions before *the other* game will be released + now CCP can borrow ideas from hangar in *the other* game (instead of trying risky experiments). After news from Vegas about modifications of NeX store it seems CCP is abandoning idea of microtransactions in EVE and most likely new "WiS" assets in the game are simply relics of "$1000 designer jeans" stash. I.e. they were developed 2+ years ago as more expensive tiers of cosmetics but since idea to sell them is abandoned we see them released into the game semi-free and nobody works on Incarna update. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
259
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 09:48:00 -
[2755] - Quote
Lipbite wrote: After news from Vegas about modifications of NeX store it seems CCP is abandoning idea of microtransactions in EVE and most likely new "WiS" assets in the game are simply relics of "$1000 designer jeans" stash. I.e. they were developed 2+ years ago as more expensive tiers of cosmetics but since idea to sell them is abandoned we see them released into the game semi-free and nobody works on Incarna update.
I really hope this is not the case, but then again this makes a frightening amount of sense. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2205
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 09:56:00 -
[2756] - Quote
Lipbite wrote: After news from Vegas about modifications of NeX store it seems CCP is abandoning idea of microtransactions in EVE and most likely new "WiS" assets in the game are simply relics of "$1000 designer jeans" stash. I.e. they were developed 2+ years ago as more expensive tiers of cosmetics but since idea to sell them is abandoned we see them released into the game semi-free and nobody works on Incarna update.
Do you have a link to a video of this, and rough times in the video that this was mentioned? I would like to hear what they're talking about for myself. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
CCP Bayesian
964
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 10:21:00 -
[2757] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:New EVE lead designer (Pator? SP?) is from World of Darkness.
Petur, he worked on EVE as well before going to work on WoD. EVE Software Engineer Team Kuromaku |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
838
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 11:12:00 -
[2758] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Lipbite wrote: After news from Vegas about modifications of NeX store it seems CCP is abandoning idea of microtransactions in EVE and most likely new "WiS" assets in the game are simply relics of "$1000 designer jeans" stash. I.e. they were developed 2+ years ago as more expensive tiers of cosmetics but since idea to sell them is abandoned we see them released into the game semi-free and nobody works on Incarna update.
Do you have a link to a video of this, and rough times in the video that this was mentioned? I would like to hear what they're talking about for myself.
I'm not sure where he got his info from. David Reid said they were going to revamp the NeX store next year. Not abandon it. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2205
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 11:14:00 -
[2759] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: I'm not sure where he got his info from. David Reid said they were going to revamp the NeX store next year. Not abandon it.
Ahhh, okay.
Next yearGäó. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Flamespar
Woof Club
838
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 11:16:00 -
[2760] - Quote
It's a definite possibility of a firm maybe ... I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2210
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 11:47:00 -
[2761] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It's a definite possibility of a firm maybe ...
Must take in account that a external store for ingame items is what many MMOs do. In order to properly reinvent the wheel, likely CCP will create the first online store that requires payment in cash at your nearest Western Union. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1113
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 18:51:00 -
[2762] - Quote
No golden pods for you either, Incarna lovers. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
398
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:03:00 -
[2763] - Quote
Because nobody will touch it even with a 10 foot stick, when CCP dont pay them for it. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
293
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:04:00 -
[2764] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:One interesting tidbit from Pokethulu is that they view avatar gameplay (ie station gameplay) as being the bridge that links the various EVE games.
This is what I see. The social station environment is the perfect place to let EVE capsuleers, DUST mercenaries, and Valkyrie pilots interact with each other. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
850
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:58:00 -
[2765] - Quote
I made a thread regarding the incomplete collectors edition on the CSM section
Link to CSM thread
Feel free to visit the thread above and help bring this to the CSMs attention.
Personally I think it's not an unrealistic expectation. We paid for it after all. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1034
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 10:54:00 -
[2766] - Quote
So by your reasoning only the "incarna lovers" bought the collectors edition? Then there must be a hell of a lot of "incarna lovers" This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22017
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 11:00:00 -
[2767] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:So by your reasoning only the "incarna lovers" bought the collectors edition? Then there must be a hell of a lot of "incarna lovers" I didn't buy it... not worth the money, sadly. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2232
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 14:37:00 -
[2768] - Quote
Has anyone seen the new "luxury" T-shirts from the patch notes? I can't login ATM... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
795
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 14:45:00 -
[2769] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Has anyone seen the new "luxury" T-shirts from the patch notes? I can't login ATM...
More t-shirts. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Isis Dea
State Protectorate Caldari State
194
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 14:55:00 -
[2770] - Quote
As was posted earlier.
Seems to come with a general lack of concern from the devs for CQ and WiS after the outlash following Incarna, focus just seems elsewhere.
Yet, with enough support, I'm sure players can get them to care more about CQ and WiS again.
We have a topic going in the ideas section of the forums about this, located here.
Now updated with the golden pod CE point. |
|
Soulpirate
Interstellar Booty Hunters
320
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 17:08:00 -
[2771] - Quote
Sneak peak at summer expansion 2017, "Incarna 2.0"
- Added golden pod visibility to CQ! - Moved CQ balcony so players using CQ can see the other ships flying by in stations without leaning and almost falling off. - Moved station door button to left side of door. - Changed message on door lock to "Station atmosphere decotamination failed, attempting again." - Removed couch and added a recliner, couches are for more than one person. - Added a few new station enviroment sounds. - Changed the bedding so it looks like someone used it while you were out. "This one was too soft" - Adding run animation or speeding up walk proved too difficult, shortened walkway from CQ to balcony. - Removed ashtrays to comply with current Icelandic public smoking bylaws. - Added a toilet.
I dont know about you, but I can't wait for this expansion, sounds epic!
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
692
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 01:40:00 -
[2772] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Sneak peak at summer expansion 2017, "Incarna 2.0"
- Added golden pod visibility to CQ! - Moved CQ balcony so players using CQ can see the other ships flying by in stations without leaning and almost falling off. - Moved station door button to left side of door. - Changed message on door lock to "Station atmosphere decotamination failed, attempting again." - Removed couch and added a recliner, couches are for more than one person. - Added a few new station enviroment sounds. - Changed the bedding so it looks like someone used it while you were out. "This one was too soft" - Adding run animation or speeding up walk proved too difficult, shortened walkway from CQ to balcony. - Removed ashtrays to comply with current Icelandic public smoking bylaws. - Added a toilet.
I dont know about you, but I can't wait for this expansion, sounds epic!
Even this is a troll post i need to admit i lmfao about it. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
888
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 06:09:00 -
[2773] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Has anyone seen the new "luxury" T-shirts from the patch notes? I can't login ATM... More t-shirts.
I think they are for EVE Vegas attendees.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2231
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 07:00:00 -
[2774] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Has anyone seen the new "luxury" T-shirts from the patch notes? I can't login ATM... More t-shirts. I think they are for EVE Vegas attendees.
They are terrible. Really low resolution crappy pictures on the plain black t-shirt. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
260
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:14:00 -
[2775] - Quote
404 on the "luxury" on those luxury t-shirts. I named it "Three Opux Moon", except there's no moon. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2237
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:20:00 -
[2776] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:404 on the "luxury" on those luxury t-shirts.
It makes sense, as the luxury in those shirts is to luxury what EVE: Incarna was to Ambulaiton... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22018
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:34:00 -
[2777] - Quote
Meanwhile in SC: 24 mil has ben reached, revealing the inclusion of cap ship crew stations... so the 20 people a carrier will hold will all be able to actually do something on board... in PERSON.
...and on goes the discussion. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2237
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:43:00 -
[2778] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Meanwhile in SC: 24 mil has ben reached, revealing the inclusion of cap ship crew stations... so the 20 people a carrier will hold will all be able to actually do something on board... in PERSON. ...and on goes the discussion.
But, but... we got a painted-on cybernetic arm! (for a mere 150 Gé¼/$). The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
563
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:48:00 -
[2779] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Meanwhile in SC: 24 mil has ben reached, revealing the inclusion of cap ship crew stations... so the 20 people a carrier will hold will all be able to actually do something on board... in PERSON. ...and on goes the discussion. But, but... we got a painted-on cybernetic arm! (for a mere 150 Gé¼/$).
lol, they charged only 150$ for it, I bet 75% of the ppl that ordered it would've bought it for 200$ for a second mystery code ingame item. Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
401
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:52:00 -
[2780] - Quote
We all know the synonym of luxury is at least cloth made of virgin chinchilla eyelashes with the nanofiber tubes finish and NOT a generic art on it. Shame on you CCP. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2237
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 13:56:00 -
[2781] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Meanwhile in SC: 24 mil has ben reached, revealing the inclusion of cap ship crew stations... so the 20 people a carrier will hold will all be able to actually do something on board... in PERSON. ...and on goes the discussion. But, but... we got a painted-on cybernetic arm! (for a mere 150 Gé¼/$). lol, they charged only 150$ for it, I bet 75% of the ppl that ordered it would've bought it for 200$ for a second mystery code ingame item.
In a way, CCP Zulu was right. Some people will buy 1,000 $ jeans, as long as you're not selling them 1,000 $ jeans.
What is just ironical, is that the ones getting avatar apparel are people who didn't wanted it until they saw it, and meanwhile we who are wanting that kind of **** since 2011, won't get it until (maybe-somehow-they have a plan to-soon) the NEx store is redesigned as a external store next year. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22018
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 15:12:00 -
[2782] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:We all know the synonym of luxury is at least cloth made of virgin chinchilla eyelashes with the nanofiber tubes finish and NOT a generic art on it. Shame on you CCP. Teehee, nice David Braben quote there. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
263
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:24:00 -
[2783] - Quote
Not sure what to make of it, but the into the second decade book from the CE was in my opinion, at least slightly encouraging and stating some points we have made in this thread time and time again, among them that DUST assets could perhaps be uplifted to EVE, and that they are interested in making EVE "whole" eventually, but that it is as always in hands of the players and the CSM.
At least what little browse through I did gave me this impression. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
404
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:41:00 -
[2784] - Quote
Why we need toilets:
Quote: Assuming you've overcome the perils of gravity, you still need to go occasionally for number one and number two. And yet, there are no toilets in the future. Spaceships are poop-free zones, aliens have magical nappies that filtrate their urine better than those special suites in Dune.
Where did all toilets go? Don't our heroes need to relax now and then, have a read? Doesn't Picard get a clenching moment now and then? Wasn't Snake Plissken afraid when he EMP-ed the world?
Now, let's consider the actual sewage capacity of a modern spaceship. Take a 1,000-crew ship, with equal half-male half-female population. Using today's world eating and hygiene statistics, we're talking five to six urinal trips and an average one Zen-like moment per crewmember a day, resulting in about two liters of fluid and 400-gr turding. With no special bacteria to bio-degrade the waste, we're amassing 400 kg of browncake and two tons of lemonjuice every single day. This translates into 700 hundred tons of peepee and 150 tons of cacky a year, and this is a conservative estimate. Where do you put all that? Or do you just eject all that into space?
Imagine, bio-warfare between rival ships. As they swoop past another, you get them showered with your waste. And if they don't have any window wipers, they end up with polluted starscape until the next visit in an orbital maintenance shop.
Better yet, since the vacuum is fairly cold, ejected ***** turn into solid ice instantly. So with some knowledge of ballistics and good timing, you can use human excrements as kinetic weapons. If you fire them from your ship when moving at great speed, you can create a meteor shower of unprecedented physical and psychological impact. You can even use the gravitational pull of nearby stars and planets to make your dung accelerate, becoming even deadlier. Theoretically, you can have a 1,000-ton kinetic projectile created from inedible parts of human diet, available for launching at 20 km/sec, at your disposal. Farts have never been more dangerous.
And so the space weapons become pissiles and turdpedoes. Oh man, what a moment of poetic brilliance. Now, this is what I call - biological warfare! Yeah! I win!
From here: www.dedoimedo.com/physics/sci-fi-mistakes.html/ Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2248
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 16:02:00 -
[2785] - Quote
Quote: Better yet, since the vacuum is fairly cold, ejected ***** turn into solid ice instantly.
This is not true. In a vacuum objects do not loose heat quickly because heat loss is the transfer of energy (usually in the form of vibrations) from one partial to another. If there are no other particles to transfer said energy to (ie in a vacuum), then heat can't be lost.
Things don't freeze instantly in space. Sorry to be a killjoy.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2265
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 16:32:00 -
[2786] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Quote: Better yet, since the vacuum is fairly cold, ejected ***** turn into solid ice instantly.
This is not true. In a vacuum objects do not loose heat quickly because heat loss is the transfer of energy (usually in the form of vibrations) from one partial to another. If there are no other particles to transfer said energy to (ie in a vacuum), then heat can't be lost. Things don't freeze instantly in space. Sorry to be a killjoy.
Heat can also be lost by radiation. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
2249
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 16:52:00 -
[2787] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Arduemont wrote:Quote: Better yet, since the vacuum is fairly cold, ejected ***** turn into solid ice instantly.
This is not true. In a vacuum objects do not loose heat quickly because heat loss is the transfer of energy (usually in the form of vibrations) from one partial to another. If there are no other particles to transfer said energy to (ie in a vacuum), then heat can't be lost. Things don't freeze instantly in space. Sorry to be a killjoy. Heat can also be lost by radiation.
If I remember correctly, radiated heat loss is much slower. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
407
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 16:58:00 -
[2788] - Quote
Hah i know that from Vsauce. But did't know you know it too. :P
The thing is you could prepare turdpedoes before fight by radiating heat to the subsystems of ship. This way you could have the ammuniton for future encounters. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
316
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 17:04:00 -
[2789] - Quote
Honestly, you should be able to convert crew waste into PI materials. Biofuels and bacteria? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2232
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 17:17:00 -
[2790] - Quote
At one of the Eve Vegas roundtables it was mentioned that one Dev wants to salvage corpses for implants. I suggested they do that via an avatar based mini-game. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
264
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 20:39:00 -
[2791] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:At one of the Eve Vegas roundtables it was mentioned that one Dev wants to salvage corpses for implants. I suggested they do that via an avatar based mini-game.
I have uncovered the prototype. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22179
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 20:49:00 -
[2792] - Quote
Great, carrion picking... how awfully fitting for a game like EVE... you could call that "avatar based gameplay", though. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2271
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 21:18:00 -
[2793] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Great, carrion picking... how awfully fitting for a game like EVE... you could call that "avatar based gameplay", though.
Doh, just look at this prototype of a replacement for loot scattering. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
482
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 21:28:00 -
[2794] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Meanwhile in SC: 24 mil has ben reached, revealing the inclusion of cap ship crew stations... so the 20 people a carrier will hold will all be able to actually do something on board... in PERSON. ...and on goes the discussion. But, but... we got a painted-on cybernetic arm! (for a mere 150 Gé¼/$).
Lets all remember that eve was the original star citizen until the fis fanatics hijacked the community anger over microtransactions and the nex store, we're all poorer for it now... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2277
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 09:09:00 -
[2795] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Meanwhile in SC: 24 mil has ben reached, revealing the inclusion of cap ship crew stations... so the 20 people a carrier will hold will all be able to actually do something on board... in PERSON. ...and on goes the discussion. But, but... we got a painted-on cybernetic arm! (for a mere 150 Gé¼/$). Lets all remember that eve was the original star citizen until the fis fanatics hijacked the community anger over microtransactions and the nex store, we're all poorer for it now...
Well, EVE without avatar content reminds me of the Black Knight from Monty Python's film. Since 2011, EVE has become a PvP arcade on spreadsheets and the "science fiction" side has taken a "flesh wound" on both arms and a leg.
We can't tell wether Star Citizen will be good or bad, but for sure they're trying to deliver exactly what the players want, whereas CCP doesn't even tries. EVE is EVE and you take it or you leave it. But we're playing EVE because there was games like Privateer, and we play EVE because there were no games like Star Citizen.
EVE's 10 year headstart is unbeatable, but no amount of headstart can beat delivering the real deal instead of EVE. And that, without puzzling your customers with stuff like avoiding to guarantee that Valkyrie will be released for PC + OR. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22179
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 09:31:00 -
[2796] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:EVE's 10 year headstart is unbeatable, but no amount of headstart can beat delivering the real deal instead of EVE. And that, without puzzling your customers with stuff like avoiding to guarantee that Valkyrie will be released for PC + OR.
Agreed... and why is that? Because EVE these days lacks any clear vision... the moment CCP started to buckle under the pressure of the very "vocal FIS crowd", the game lost any personality.
We may not yet know how SC will turn out to be, but we know one thing for sure: It is, first and foremost, the vision of one man, and he will make it true, no matter what other people say... and the players will love it. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2277
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 10:16:00 -
[2797] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:EVE's 10 year headstart is unbeatable, but no amount of headstart can beat delivering the real deal instead of EVE. And that, without puzzling your customers with stuff like avoiding to guarantee that Valkyrie will be released for PC + OR. Agreed... and why is that? Because EVE these days lacks any clear vision... the moment CCP started to buckle under the pressure of the very "vocal FIS crowd", the game lost any personality. We may not yet know how SC will turn out to be, but we know one thing for sure: It is, first and foremost, the vision of one man, and he will make it true, no matter what other people say... and the players will love it.
That's right. It's a Chris Roberts game, and so you know what to expect (this is why I am not 100% ecstatic with it, as my tastes now are a tad different than when i was younger). This time there's no Microsoft to kick Freelancer into the market when MS wants; there's no producers nor investors nor anyone in charge other than the man himself.
The good news, is that he's a big name of the business. He already was a veteran progammer with a notorious portfolio when CCP were planning to make a board game to fund their space videogame.
The bad news, is that the more you try to accomplish, the largar are the chances of a disastrous blunder. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22179
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 10:27:00 -
[2798] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:The good news, is that he's a big name of the business. He already was a veteran progammer with a notorious portfolio when CCP were planning to make a board game to fund their space videogame.
The bad news, is that the more you try to accomplish, the largar are the chances of a disastrous blunder. All true...
...but as far as the, possibly cheesy story and boyish presentation go: Keep in mind, CR also matured over the last 20 years... "Lord of War" and "Lucky Number Slevin" should have thought him a thing or two about story telling, I recon.
Also, it may not say much, but look here - 0:23:00 starts the intresting part. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2277
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 11:13:00 -
[2799] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:The good news, is that he's a big name of the business. He already was a veteran progammer with a notorious portfolio when CCP were planning to make a board game to fund their space videogame.
The bad news, is that the more you try to accomplish, the largar are the chances of a disastrous blunder. All true... ...but as far as the, possibly cheesy story and boyish presentation go: Keep in mind, CR also matured over the last 20 years... "Lord of War" and "Lucky Number Slevin" should have thought him a thing or two about story telling, I recon. Also, it may not say much, but look here - 0:23:00 starts the intresting part.
Interesting concept arts. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
486
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 19:45:00 -
[2800] - Quote
well if it's as good as the hype I will definitely be leaving eve for star citizen. Being happily married, working and looking after a family etc, I can only devote so much time to gaming and eve takes a considerable amount of time to do properly, I'll miss eve but I think I will love star citizen. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1524
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 20:25:00 -
[2801] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:well if it's as good as the hype I will definitely be leaving eve for star citizen. Being happily married, working and looking after a family etc, I can only devote so much time to gaming and eve takes a considerable amount of time to do properly, I'll miss eve but I think I will love star citizen.
Yeah, I think there are a lot of people who play Eve because there is no alternative, and they're just not really happy with the game as it is. I hope for all these people that Star Citizen fills the niche for them that Eve fails to. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Drew Dawkins
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 20:51:00 -
[2802] - Quote
I regret more and more buying the EvE CE. sighs |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22186
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 21:07:00 -
[2803] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Yeah, I think there are a lot of people who play Eve because there is no alternative, and they're just not really happy with the game as it is. I hope for all these people that Star Citizen fills the niche for them that Eve fails to. There are quite a few, yea... well, actually I will leave for Elite Dangerous first, and them move on to SC/play both. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2296
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 21:09:00 -
[2804] - Quote
Drew Dawkins wrote:I regret more and more buying the EvE CE. sighs
I'm quite satisfied as i've got what i wanted from the CE for a very affordable price. Paid 18 million ISK for the white shirt and 23 million for this green and gold coat. Those are about two hours of gameplay. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Jara Blackwind
Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 22:21:00 -
[2805] - Quote
Well, here are the words of another bitter carebear.
I once started playing EVE because it remindered me somewhat of Elite II: Frontier and Privateer games which I used to miss school for. The "unforgiving and harsh nature", "Nigeria online", "tear harvesting" etc. aspects of EVE were okay as I found my little corner in the sandbox and a few people that more or less supported my bubble of suspended disbelief and kept playing and even PvPing, on and off.
But post-Incarna (as epic fail as it was. No, really, Incarna was beyond epic fail. It was a ******** **** **** of whale-like proportions) the bitter reality had to settle in.
1. CCP, no doubt, considers the existence of the thousand-account nullsec alliances as the epitome of the social function of their game and the subscribers of those accounts as the core player base of EVE.
2. The "content" generated by players in the sandbox (which basically has minimal differences with your average high school yard with some street gang flavour thrown in, complete with ASCII phalluses in local and Jita chat) is of primary value.
3. Whatever NPC content there is serves three basic functions: A. Tutorial. B. Farming ISK. C. Providing barebones framework for the "sandbox" of EVE.
This is The Vision of CCP, and it won't change. Whatever changes will be enacted by the CCP after Incarna fiasco will be aimed to reinforce this vision and, where possible, reaffirm loyalty of the (perceived) core customer base. The Rubicon expansion just underlines this once more.
-Éfter both SC and Elite IV hit (I backed both), EVE will be Goonswarm Spreadsheets online, and it will drag on (for quite a few years - Ultima and Everquest are still alive in some form!) and slowly die as such.
As for me, I applaud CCP for all they have done, and I've paid them enough subscription money to reward their effort.
But as soon as I could return to the cockpit of my Eagle among the pinkish ice fields of Ross 154 with Aster rising over horizon and Sirocco Station domes a few miles away, days of EVE for me will be over.
And no, no forum warrior will ever have my stuff. I'd rather contract it all to my alliance; they are mostly good guys/gals and there should be more like them. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2296
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 23:09:00 -
[2806] - Quote
Jara Blackwind wrote:Well, here are the words of another bitter carebear.
I once started playing EVE because it remindered me somewhat of Elite II: Frontier and Privateer games which I used to miss school for. The "unforgiving and harsh nature", "Nigeria online", "tear harvesting" etc. aspects of EVE were okay as I found my little corner in the sandbox and a few people that more or less supported my bubble of suspended disbelief and kept playing and even PvPing, on and off.
But post-Incarna (as epic fail as it was. No, really, Incarna was beyond epic fail. It was a ******** **** **** of whale-like proportions) the bitter reality had to settle in.
1. CCP, no doubt, considers the existence of the thousand-account nullsec alliances as the epitome of the social function of their game and the subscribers of those accounts as the core player base of EVE.
2. The "content" generated by players in the sandbox (which basically has minimal differences with your average high school yard with some street gang flavour thrown in, complete with ASCII phalluses in local and Jita chat) is of primary value.
3. Whatever NPC content there is serves three basic functions: A. Tutorial. B. Farming ISK. C. Providing barebones framework for the "sandbox" of EVE.
This is The Vision of CCP, and it won't change. Whatever changes will be enacted by the CCP after Incarna fiasco will be aimed to reinforce this vision and, where possible, reaffirm loyalty of the (perceived) core customer base. The Rubicon expansion just underlines this once more.
-Éfter both SC and Elite IV hit (I backed both), EVE will be Goonswarm Spreadsheets online, and it will drag on (for quite a few years - Ultima and Everquest are still alive in some form!) and slowly die as such.
As for me, I applaud CCP for all they have done, and I've paid them enough subscription money to reward their effort.
But as soon as I could return to the cockpit of my Eagle among the pinkish ice fields of Ross 154 with Aster rising over horizon and Sirocco Station domes a few miles away, days of EVE for me will be over.
And no, no forum warrior will ever have my stuff. I'd rather contract it all to my alliance; they are mostly good guys/gals and there should be more like them.
Star Ctiizen just hit 25 million less than 6 days after reaching 24 million. Even if such enthusiasm is misplaced or not as sincere as it seems (LTI gray market is blooming, and obviously it relies on buying pledges from CIG), the question remains:
Giving people what they want is a powerful tool. But so far EVE development is at a stage in which it's not just that they don't care nor know what players want -not even CCP themselves know what they want for EVE.
And meanwhile CCP's old habits remain. Just a few days ago, CCP Affinity told a player that if he wanted the best Ghost Sites, he should leave his comfort zone, meaning that high security space will not get the best rewards for those new anomaly sites. i bit my tongue until my wishes to call her an arrogant b*** faded and i was able to write a indignant but civil reminder that hiseccers too pay the game, and later I exposed a sensible way to distribute the best drops between differerent spaces so everyone had a chance to hit jackpot, rather than tell players to F themselves if they want good rewards and can't or don't want to pay the price of leaving hisec. I wonder wether I'll get any response.
EVE is not the game I wanted to play when i joined it. It will never be, in part because it can't. But also because CCP has stopped trying to make it any different than it is. EVE is a dish of reheated porridge which after Rubicon will be given a new presentation and will be microwaved once more to look new and warm.
And that doesn't cuts it. Player built stargates, new pockets of unknown space, space elevators or even virtual reality spaces, those are cool ideas. But not for EVE. It's the same old game since 10 years ago, and 2 years ago it abandoned all intent and all hope to expand in a truly new direction. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
489
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 23:54:00 -
[2807] - Quote
Jara Blackwind wrote:Well, here are the words of another bitter carebear.
I once started playing EVE because it reminded me somewhat of Elite II: Frontier and Privateer games which I used to miss school for. The "unforgiving and harsh nature", "Nigeria online", "tear harvesting" etc. aspects of EVE were okay as I found my little corner in the sandbox and a few people that more or less supported my bubble of suspended disbelief and kept playing and even PvPing, on and off.
But post-Incarna (as epic fail as it was. No, really, Incarna was beyond epic fail. It was a ******** **** **** of whale-like proportions) the bitter reality had to settle in.
1. CCP, no doubt, considers the existence of the thousand-account nullsec alliances as the epitome of the social function of their game and the subscribers of those accounts as the core player base of EVE.
2. The "content" generated by players in the sandbox (which basically has minimal differences with your average high school yard with some street gang flavour thrown in, complete with ASCII phalluses in local and Jita chat) is of primary value.
3. Whatever NPC content there is serves three basic functions: A. Tutorial. B. Farming ISK. C. Providing barebones framework for the "sandbox" of EVE.
This is The Vision of CCP, and it won't change. Whatever changes will be enacted by the CCP after Incarna fiasco will be aimed to reinforce this vision and, where possible, reaffirm loyalty of the (perceived) core customer base. The Rubicon expansion just underlines this once more.
-Éfter SC and Elite IV hit (I backed both), EVE will be Goonswarm Spreadsheets online, and it will drag on (for quite a few years - Ultima and Everquest are still alive in some form!) and slowly die as such.
As for me, I applaud CCP for all they have done, and I've paid them enough subscription money to reward their effort.
But as soon as I could return to the cockpit of my Eagle among the pinkish ice fields of Ross 154 with Aster rising over the horizon and Sirocco Station domes a few miles away, days of EVE for me will be over.
And no, no forum warrior will ever have my stuff. I'd rather contract it all to my alliance; they are mostly good guys/gals and there should be more like them.
Couldn't have said it better myself...
I played elite and freelancer online too, and came to eve when Microsoft switched of the global server and didn't give a rats arse about it. Since oddessy I have been increasingly disappointed with eve and have cancelled my sub for one of my two accounts and am strongly tempted to cancel the other one. If it wasn't for the great guys I fly with who still like eve I probably would., but it's not a great reason to stay as we can all play other games together on teamspeak. CCP need to pull their collective fingers out of their arseholes and stop pandering to the nullbears and fis crowd. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Jara Blackwind
Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 07:10:00 -
[2808] - Quote
The funny part is, that there is no FiS in EVE. There is no "flying" and no "space". There are bubbles of various sizes floating in a viscous liquid with a clearly defined top-down axis. Those bubbles and their states are represented as brackets on a spreadsheet-like overview, from which through a right-click menu you can issue "commands to your 500-meter long spaceship in an epic fleet battle".
Sure, it can (and often is) fun for various reasons, especially if you have a good FC, but as far as "flying in space" goes, Pacman and Tetris have more immersion than that.
Of course, this is a 15-year old core mechanic that is not going away. But a smart company with a loyal player base could build and expand upon this foundation. DUST 514 and Valkyrie - as proper, paid modular expansions to EVE - could be actually very good ideas, with Valkyrie a step towards the true "Flying in Space" and Dust - Shooting on Planets, in Ships and in Structures.
Just imagine:
- Instead of waiting for the reinforce timer to run out, you jump into a combat clone and with a squad of your fleetmates overtake the enemy station or POS, fighting enemy players and/or NPCs.
- Disable and capture enemy supercapital instead of simply destroying it. Ships like titans can have corp ownership history tab (like player employment history), recording the capture events.
- Jump into a combat clone and launch a fighter from your battleship. The battleship cloaks itself (if something comes within 2 km, it still can be found and destroyed), while you fly your Einherji, Templar, Firbolg, or Dragonfly into a fight and lose it gloriously. Once it explodes or returns to base, you are back into the clone that controls the battleship.
Instead, what we got was a failed tech demo for World of Darkness, an expendable console title that will be dead in a couple years, and from the looks of it Valkyrie might be be console-exclusive as well.
But hey, let's hand out all highsec PI to the biggest bully in the playground, surely that will revitalize the industry part of the game?
Okay. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
900
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 07:22:00 -
[2809] - Quote
Drew Dawkins wrote:I regret more and more buying the EvE CE. sighs
Yes. I particularly liked how you didn't find out that the golden capsule doesn't show up in your CQ until after we forked over the cash.
Well played CCP.
Greed is still good it seems. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
207
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 08:14:00 -
[2810] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And meanwhile CCP's old habits remain. Just a few days ago, CCP Affinity told a player that if he wanted the best Ghost Sites, he should leave his comfort zone, meaning that high security space will not get the best rewards for those new anomaly sites. i bit my tongue until my wishes to call her an arrogant b*** faded and i was able to write a indignant but civil reminder that hiseccers too pay the game, and later I exposed a sensible way to distribute the best drops between differerent spaces so everyone had a chance to hit jackpot, rather than tell players to F themselves if they want good rewards and can't or don't want to pay the price of leaving hisec. I wonder wether I'll get any response.
And this is good. No risk, no ISK. Having "good" sites in high security space would just lead to carebears in overpriced ships farming those sites without the risk of being shot to bits. In fact, it's not exploring the ruthless, 'space Somalia' side of EVE that would kill it - it's the opposite. Without conflict, ships wouldn't be destroyed. Without ships being destroyed, the market would slowly grind to a halt.
The millions behind Star Citizen and a massive feature creep, promises of everything people want, are precisely why I will be taking a detour here. This thing, while initially interesting from an old space-sim perspective (instanced content would never replace EVE, though) now just reeks of a massive scam to the point one wonders if Chris Roberts isn't flying Goon flags in CFC fleets.
And does EVE really need a new direction? It already has its niche: it's a universe made by us, players. We're not pawns in an NPC game playing out roles of heroes that took down a boss in the new expansion. We're gods that roam the stars and build empires that span entire regions.
It's a scary universe, don't get me wrong. NBSI areas are more similar to wastelands from of Fallout or Mad Max rather than actual civilized space - space-oil rigs defended by gun emplacements and battleship fleets, roving maniacs shooting everything that moves and doesn't bear friendly gang flags. But - let's admit it, we kind of made it that way. It all could've been an NRDS heaven if not for fear, greed and distrust.
The only thing we really lack are ways to turn the pathetic piece of wasteland we stuck our banner into and claimed ours into actual, civilized space worth defending. The devs, if anything, need to look into giving us tools to do so. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
436
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 09:31:00 -
[2811] - Quote
I think that if bugs from outer space exist, and watch us, they will eat us before we will be able to reach them with rockets. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2300
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 09:33:00 -
[2812] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And meanwhile CCP's old habits remain. Just a few days ago, CCP Affinity told a player that if he wanted the best Ghost Sites, he should leave his comfort zone, meaning that high security space will not get the best rewards for those new anomaly sites. i bit my tongue until my wishes to call her an arrogant b*** faded and i was able to write a indignant but civil reminder that hiseccers too pay the game, and later I exposed a sensible way to distribute the best drops between differerent spaces so everyone had a chance to hit jackpot, rather than tell players to F themselves if they want good rewards and can't or don't want to pay the price of leaving hisec. I wonder wether I'll get any response. And this is good. No risk, no ISK. Having "good" sites in high security space would just lead to carebears in overpriced ships farming those sites without the risk of being shot to bits. In fact, it's not exploring the ruthless, 'space Somalia' side of EVE that would kill it - it's the opposite. Without conflict, ships wouldn't be destroyed. Without ships being destroyed, the market would slowly grind to a halt.
That's wrong. The "good" sites will drop Ascendancy set BPCs. Now, what is a ghost site?
- it's randomly spawned= risk #1 not finding any while you're logged in - everyone can see it if they as much as look a it = risk #2 competition from the guy who undocked 30 seconds earlier & everyone in local - the first player to arrive triggers a random hidden timer = risk #3 the NPC spawn before you're done (& other players try to unlock it themselves) - the loot is destroyed if you fail to hack it = risk #4 the site gets spoiled by failed hacks, either by you or someone else - the NPC will be powerful enough so only strong ships can withsand them = risk #5 get killed by vicious NPCs - drops are random = risk #6 even if you do everything right, you may get only carp, supercrap or ubercrap for your efforts
And that, just for the site mechanic itself. Add the usual PvP yadda yadda.
Even in hisec, you're risking to waste your precious connection time by chasing the sites rather than do something more reliable. And then if the hisec sites don't drop BPCs, then they will always drop carp not worth it. Not even the slightest chance to hit jackpot because, according to some arrogant jerks, you "aren't risking enough" and "not leaving your comfort zone".
And that's what you get, lest remind it, after paying them 15 euros each month and spending your precious little leisure time with their game and not someone else's.
You should rather be playing something else... as soon as it's released.
Quote:And does EVE really need a new direction? It already has its niche: it's a universe made by us, players. We're not pawns in an NPC game playing out roles of heroes that took down a boss in the new expansion. We're gods that roam the stars and build empires that span entire regions.
(...)
The only thing we really lack are ways to turn the pathetic piece of wasteland we stuck our banner into and claimed ours into actual, civilized space worth defending. The devs, if anything, need to look into giving us tools to do so.
EVE's niche is worth around 150,000 subcribers and some 20 million dollars per year. Is that enough for CCP adn TQ's demographics? I it is, then i don't need to say nothing. There is nothing wrong with being a smaller company with a dedicated customer base. It's a vast improvement over trying to ignore all the subscribers who should never had played EVE and wouldn't had played it if they had had a chance.
Which ironically includes all the "good players" not interested to be a demigod. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Flamespar
Woof Club
903
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 10:01:00 -
[2813] - Quote
It's not a new direction anyway. More of a deepening of the experience. Exploring an as yet unseen part of the EVE universe. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
207
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 10:04:00 -
[2814] - Quote
The only thing you risk in case of hisec is not getting a cookie. That's it - sides from not getting your reward, you're not risking anything. You can't lose, you can only win. At the very worst you're breaking even. Strong NPCs? Give players a month, hell - two weeks and they'll cook up setups built to withstand them. Give them two more and they will become capable of farming them - like Sleepers.
As usual, they will adapt. Run them in groups and share profits, find the way that nets them the most gain for the smallest possible investment. If they are successful in their venture, they may attract attention and people will adapt to hunt them - making NPC content precisely what it should be, a catalyst to player interaction. Conflict or alliance, killmail or friendship? Yet to be seen.
Leaving the comfort zone means you not only risk not winning - you risk a loss to something way more dangerous than NPCs. Players that can, and will outsmart you, then kill you and take your loot. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2301
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 10:32:00 -
[2815] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:The only thing you risk in case of hisec is not getting a cookie. That's it - sides from not getting your reward, you're not risking anything. You can't lose, you can only win. At the very worst you're breaking even. Strong NPCs? Give players a month, hell - two weeks and they'll cook up setups built to withstand them. Give them two more and they will become capable of farming them - like Sleepers.
As usual, they will adapt. Run them in groups and share profits, find the way that nets them the most gain for the smallest possible investment. If they are successful in their venture, they may attract attention and people will adapt to hunt them - making NPC content precisely what it should be, a catalyst to player interaction. Conflict or alliance, killmail or friendship? Yet to be seen.
Leaving the comfort zone means you not only risk not winning - you risk a loss to something way more dangerous than NPCs. Players that can, and will outsmart you, then kill you and take your loot.
I forgot to mention that ghost site NPCs don't have reward nor drop any loot. They're a total waste of your time.
Ghost sites have been carefully engineered to be not worth it in hisec, and probably elsewhere than sov null and home wormholes. In those places, and specially in sov null, they will be farmed regularly because the inmediate reward will be big and the inmediate risk will be neglectable. And they don't even need to fear any competiton from hisec exploiting of the sites.
They call it "risk vs reward", but it's just CCP's equivalent to tax the poor and subsidize the wealthy. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
207
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 10:58:00 -
[2816] - Quote
Then just hack&tank? Just like old times then, I'd say - back before Odyssey. Only that back then you also needed to kill the rats.
Remember that in nullsec, safety will come from friendly guns being able to deal with threats before they reach you - or your own ability to run faster than they can chase. Same for competition. If I had to make a guess, those mere few millions a Ghost would be worth in hisec will be a fortune to someone new and will teach him the mechanics. As it should be. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
659
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 11:08:00 -
[2817] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:The millions behind Star Citizen and a massive feature creep, promises of everything people want, are precisely why I will be taking a detour here. This thing, while initially interesting from an old space-sim perspective (instanced content would never replace EVE, though) now just reeks of a massive scam to the point one wonders if Chris Roberts isn't flying Goon flags in CFC fleets.
Maybe is a scam or a fail. Maybe not. The point is not this, the poinbt is this people (SC crew) is flirting with EVE playerbase and only with some gameplay idea is colelcting an huge amount of $$. This prove there's a huge demand CCP was unable to see or catch. They see this now, the urge to announce a dogfight based game just when the spotlights are moving from EVE to incoming Sci-Fi games that, just a coincidence, are based on dogfight style combat means something.
Trii Seo wrote:And does EVE really need a new direction? It already has its niche: it's a universe made by us, players. We're not pawns in an NPC game playing out roles of heroes that took down a boss in the new expansion. We're gods that roam the stars and build empires that span entire regions.
As already pointed is not "new". WiS always been in EVE DNA, almost since the release. Eventually is an iteration on some idea badly developed. To be a niche requires a strong strategic vision. Since 3-4 years CCP is acting not like any other mainstream game without having the numbers; nerfing a ship to re-add the same ship in the next patch as faction vrersion, when you nerf a module only to add a new skill that allow to match the old module value and so on... Al this is exactly the same **** Blizzard (or any other mainstream game company) do when they have nothing more to say. A never ending loop based on equipment/dungeons reiteration.
Problem is: they have the numbers to do it. It works for theme park/mainstream games.
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 11:19:00 -
[2818] - Quote
There's difference between themepark addons and sandbox addons. Themepark relies on addons to survive, as its content depletes rapidly. Sandbox only benefits from additions that expand the ways to have fun in it.
Rebalance like the one CCP is performing, and one done well with some consideration (same for adding ships. You won't get the balance right in the first pass, but they sure look better than say, the Blackops which wound up with a hodgepodge of random bonuses barely fitting their style and then were forgotten for a long time.) works well when it comes to revitalizing the content in the Sandbox. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
659
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 16:51:00 -
[2819] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:There's difference between themepark addons and sandbox addons. Themepark relies on addons to survive, as its content depletes rapidly. Sandbox only benefits from additions that expand the ways to have fun in it.
Rebalance like the one CCP is performing, and one done well with some consideration (same for adding ships. You won't get the balance right in the first pass, but they sure look better than say, the Blackops which wound up with a hodgepodge of random bonuses barely fitting their style and then were forgotten for a long time.) works well when it comes to revitalizing the content in the Sandbox.
It works for games like LoL or WoT.
In a sandbox contents are created by players so they need proper tools and frameworks to create contents and to shape the world. And a major area where EVE lack of proper tools and frameworks is just everything related to pilots and WiS.
Keep shuffling the same old stuff, +1 or -1 to a module attributes is daily mantainence, any games do it. It's good, have to be done and have to continue as always been in EVE, but cannot work as core business; can work for theme parks games, to give a refresh feeling, but means nothing in sandbox terms.
For sure +1 or -1 to a module attribute is not what make you sell a game, hold customers or earn new ones. And doesn't pay the bills.
Mostly when competitors starts to stick their noses in your golden niche.
|
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:07:00 -
[2820] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Jara Blackwind wrote:Well, here are the words of another bitter carebear.
I once started playing EVE because it remindered me somewhat of Elite II: Frontier and Privateer games which I used to miss school for. The "unforgiving and harsh nature", "Nigeria online", "tear harvesting" etc. aspects of EVE were okay as I found my little corner in the sandbox and a few people that more or less supported my bubble of suspended disbelief and kept playing and even PvPing, on and off.
But post-Incarna (as epic fail as it was. No, really, Incarna was beyond epic fail. It was a ******** **** **** of whale-like proportions) the bitter reality had to settle in.
1. CCP, no doubt, considers the existence of the thousand-account nullsec alliances as the epitome of the social function of their game and the subscribers of those accounts as the core player base of EVE.
2. The "content" generated by players in the sandbox (which basically has minimal differences with your average high school yard with some street gang flavour thrown in, complete with ASCII phalluses in local and Jita chat) is of primary value.
3. Whatever NPC content there is serves three basic functions: A. Tutorial. B. Farming ISK. C. Providing barebones framework for the "sandbox" of EVE.
This is The Vision of CCP, and it won't change. Whatever changes will be enacted by the CCP after Incarna fiasco will be aimed to reinforce this vision and, where possible, reaffirm loyalty of the (perceived) core customer base. The Rubicon expansion just underlines this once more.
-Éfter both SC and Elite IV hit (I backed both), EVE will be Goonswarm Spreadsheets online, and it will drag on (for quite a few years - Ultima and Everquest are still alive in some form!) and slowly die as such.
As for me, I applaud CCP for all they have done, and I've paid them enough subscription money to reward their effort.
But as soon as I could return to the cockpit of my Eagle among the pinkish ice fields of Ross 154 with Aster rising over horizon and Sirocco Station domes a few miles away, days of EVE for me will be over.
And no, no forum warrior will ever have my stuff. I'd rather contract it all to my alliance; they are mostly good guys/gals and there should be more like them. Star Ctiizen just hit 25 million less than 6 days after reaching 24 million. Even if such enthusiasm is misplaced or not as sincere as it seems (LTI gray market is blooming, and obviously it relies on buying pledges from CIG), the question remains: Giving people what they want is a powerful tool. But so far EVE development is at a stage in which it's not just that they don't care nor know what players want -not even CCP themselves know what they want for EVE. And meanwhile CCP's old habits remain. Just a few days ago, CCP Affinity told a player that if he wanted the best Ghost Sites, he should leave his comfort zone, meaning that high security space will not get the best rewards for those new anomaly sites. i bit my tongue until my wishes to call her an arrogant b*** faded and i was able to write a indignant but civil reminder that hiseccers too pay the game, and later I exposed a sensible way to distribute the best drops between differerent spaces so everyone had a chance to hit jackpot, rather than tell players to F themselves if they want good rewards and can't or don't want to pay the price of leaving hisec. I wonder wether I'll get any response. EVE is not the game I wanted to play when i joined it. It will never be, in part because it can't. But also because CCP has stopped trying to make it any different than it is. EVE is a dish of reheated porridge which after Rubicon will be given a new presentation and will be microwaved once more to look new and warm. And that doesn't cuts it. Player built stargates, new pockets of unknown space, space elevators or even virtual reality spaces, those are cool ideas. But not for EVE. It's the same old game since 10 years ago, and 2 years ago it abandoned all intent and all hope to expand in a truly new direction.
Hi-sec'ers are often disregarded because of their unwillingness to leave hi-sec in search of bigger and better things. Simple risk vs reward
|
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22190
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:14:00 -
[2821] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Hi-sec'ers are often disregarded because of their unwillingness to leave hi-sec in search of bigger and better things. Simple risk vs reward Still, they are paying customers, and many of those are all but fed up by a) the neglect from CCP and b) the persecution from other, presumably "better" (playing the game as it is supposed to be played) gamers... many of those have been waiting for EVE to change to make either of those issues better, but I doubt many of them will wait much longer. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 17:48:00 -
[2822] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Hi-sec'ers are often disregarded because of their unwillingness to leave hi-sec in search of bigger and better things. Simple risk vs reward Still, they are paying customers, and many of those are all but fed up by a) the neglect from CCP and b) the persecution from other, presumably "better" (playing the game as it is supposed to be played) gamers... many of those have been waiting for EVE to change to make either of those issues better, but I doubt many of them will wait much longer. Catering only to one group of ones playerbase, and calling that "a sandbox" doesn't cut it... a true sandbox has content for every type of player.
Neglect?
Reworked bounties Reworked killrights Reworked crimewatch Reworked war declaration system Mining barge buffs
Were major changes aimed for the most part at hisec. What did others get?
Tech nerf. Exploration rebalance that crashed prices on commodities that used to be very valuable. General moon mineral rebalance. Anomaly changes curbing low-risk high-profit ratting.
Of course, say, 0.0 benefited from cruiser rebalance that made cheap T1 cruiser fleets hilariously fun and actually viable on the battlefield (Caracal, never forget!) but in the light of problems with sovereignity mechanics and a few other glaring issues it's like a moisture in the middle of goddamn Sahara. We already saw a step in the good direction with industry changes that made null mining and manufacturing more viable but it's still a long highway to the fun-zone. A bumpy one, and filled with danger.
The only reason many presume other part of the playerbase is content with the current state of things is that they're not exactly the sort to whine on the forums. From pilots up high to a newbie in a slasher an old wisdom is passed that makes them say "no" when offered to make a massive whine post. Sang by CCP Guard himself, the wisdom says: "Harden The **** Up".
Barges harder to gank? HTFU and change fits/ships/tactics. Tech nerfed? HTFU and devise another plan to make mad money, start a war over it. Exploration changes unprofitable? HTFU and either adapt or find another revenue stream. Anomalies changed? Come up with the new FOTM ratting ship.
Persecution comes because hisec refuses to HTFU. Rather than do so, they whine on the forums, entertaining the rest. Squeaky chair gets the oil, after all. Truth is, the crowd whining about miner ganking or bumping, pitting themselves as "poor, defenseless miners" makes actual industrialists look bad.
Why? Because an industrial corporation can have just about as much teeth as a group of battle-hardened pirates. Thing is, those groups mostly belong to the followers of Holy HTFU so they don't whine either. For those people hulkageddon isn't a time to dock up and whine on forums, it's time to ramp up catalyst and hulk production due to increased demand. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2307
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:02:00 -
[2823] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Jara Blackwind wrote:Well, here are the words of another bitter carebear.
I once started playing EVE because it remindered me somewhat of Elite II: Frontier and Privateer games which I used to miss school for. The "unforgiving and harsh nature", "Nigeria online", "tear harvesting" etc. aspects of EVE were okay as I found my little corner in the sandbox and a few people that more or less supported my bubble of suspended disbelief and kept playing and even PvPing, on and off.
But post-Incarna (as epic fail as it was. No, really, Incarna was beyond epic fail. It was a ******** **** **** of whale-like proportions) the bitter reality had to settle in.
1. CCP, no doubt, considers the existence of the thousand-account nullsec alliances as the epitome of the social function of their game and the subscribers of those accounts as the core player base of EVE.
2. The "content" generated by players in the sandbox (which basically has minimal differences with your average high school yard with some street gang flavour thrown in, complete with ASCII phalluses in local and Jita chat) is of primary value.
3. Whatever NPC content there is serves three basic functions: A. Tutorial. B. Farming ISK. C. Providing barebones framework for the "sandbox" of EVE.
This is The Vision of CCP, and it won't change. Whatever changes will be enacted by the CCP after Incarna fiasco will be aimed to reinforce this vision and, where possible, reaffirm loyalty of the (perceived) core customer base. The Rubicon expansion just underlines this once more.
-Éfter both SC and Elite IV hit (I backed both), EVE will be Goonswarm Spreadsheets online, and it will drag on (for quite a few years - Ultima and Everquest are still alive in some form!) and slowly die as such.
As for me, I applaud CCP for all they have done, and I've paid them enough subscription money to reward their effort.
But as soon as I could return to the cockpit of my Eagle among the pinkish ice fields of Ross 154 with Aster rising over horizon and Sirocco Station domes a few miles away, days of EVE for me will be over.
And no, no forum warrior will ever have my stuff. I'd rather contract it all to my alliance; they are mostly good guys/gals and there should be more like them. Star Ctiizen just hit 25 million less than 6 days after reaching 24 million. Even if such enthusiasm is misplaced or not as sincere as it seems (LTI gray market is blooming, and obviously it relies on buying pledges from CIG), the question remains: Giving people what they want is a powerful tool. But so far EVE development is at a stage in which it's not just that they don't care nor know what players want -not even CCP themselves know what they want for EVE. And meanwhile CCP's old habits remain. Just a few days ago, CCP Affinity told a player that if he wanted the best Ghost Sites, he should leave his comfort zone, meaning that high security space will not get the best rewards for those new anomaly sites. i bit my tongue until my wishes to call her an arrogant b*** faded and i was able to write a indignant but civil reminder that hiseccers too pay the game, and later I exposed a sensible way to distribute the best drops between differerent spaces so everyone had a chance to hit jackpot, rather than tell players to F themselves if they want good rewards and can't or don't want to pay the price of leaving hisec. I wonder wether I'll get any response. EVE is not the game I wanted to play when i joined it. It will never be, in part because it can't. But also because CCP has stopped trying to make it any different than it is. EVE is a dish of reheated porridge which after Rubicon will be given a new presentation and will be microwaved once more to look new and warm. And that doesn't cuts it. Player built stargates, new pockets of unknown space, space elevators or even virtual reality spaces, those are cool ideas. But not for EVE. It's the same old game since 10 years ago, and 2 years ago it abandoned all intent and all hope to expand in a truly new direction. Hi-sec'ers are often disregarded because of their unwillingness to leave hi-sec in search of bigger and better things. Simple risk vs reward
In equality of availablity and conditions, it can be called "unwillingness".
But EVE players are diverse, and so are their circunstances. Some can't press d-scan every other second because must attend RL issues. Others don't experience "adrenaline rush" at all, or feel sick because of adrenaline kicks. Some can't play more than an hour at once. Some feel opposed to losing stuff. Some just play to relax or disconnect from their daily routine.
What they have in common is that they like space-themed games, and pay CCP for playing EVE, be it with money or time to buy PLEX.
It is expectable that players abuse and discriminate each other -such is human nature and EVE is not exactly in favor of controlling the lowest passions. What is harder to swallow is when CCP takes my money and say that there are no cookies for me for other reason than they don't like what i do in the game. That i should, according to them, "leave my comfort zone", rather than expect them to do what i pay them for: give me a game i want to play and pay for. Which, accidentally, is compatible with the game others want and pay for. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
288
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:04:00 -
[2824] - Quote
Oh cmon guys, please not hate on CCP Affinity so much, she's cute.
Come join Affinity Fan Club, Amarrs are at Tier 4 and Alfred is recruting.
Or if you would like to engage in a more laid back isk-acquiring venture you can join ingame channel "Farmerpigs" #1 Factional Warfare eleet channel - only Eleet PVE farmerpigs allowed - people who joined FW for pvp should leave.
A new race is born!!!! Eleet FarmerPigs!!! \o/ join the growing FP community! cloaked and stabbed frigs provided at multiple FW locations! |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2271
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:13:00 -
[2825] - Quote
What has this thread become? "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3015
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:14:00 -
[2826] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Rabble rabble. Careful not to cut yourself on that edge, Trii.
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2308
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:17:00 -
[2827] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Hi-sec'ers are often disregarded because of their unwillingness to leave hi-sec in search of bigger and better things. Simple risk vs reward Still, they are paying customers, and many of those are all but fed up by a) the neglect from CCP and b) the persecution from other, presumably "better" (playing the game as it is supposed to be played) gamers... many of those have been waiting for EVE to change to make either of those issues better, but I doubt many of them will wait much longer. Catering only to one group of ones playerbase, and calling that "a sandbox" doesn't cut it... a true sandbox has content for every type of player. Neglect? Reworked bounties Reworked killrights Reworked crimewatch Reworked war declaration system Mining barge buffs
4 out of 5 of those things are totally irrelevant to anyone not interested in PvP.
Bounty system is a idiotic schoolyard mechanic. Killrights are a scam. Crimewatch was a bloody mess, now it's just a mess. Wardec system has always been a way to abuse and harrass non-PvPers. Mining barge buffs merely adressed endless years of abuse on non-PvPers.
The things I do and like of this game are the same now than 5 years ago. I think that CCP has had ample time to give me something new to chew on.
And by the way, if they wanted to get rid of me, they should had not advertised Walking in Stations. That kept me subbed for all of 2010, 2011 and most of 2012.
They took my money, my hopes, my suggestions, and i got nothing but disappointment and bitterness. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:19:00 -
[2828] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:What has this thread become?
Something ISD is about to drop a hammer on of being kicked so far off topic it forgot what it was about? Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3015
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:20:00 -
[2829] - Quote
Funny enough it isn't that off topic. It just gets down to the heart of the matter. The people who want WiS (casuals) and those who don't (extremists). Not to say that there's no one from groups on either that don't feel vice-versa, but still...
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:25:00 -
[2830] - Quote
To be quite honest, in my case, it's not about wanting it's about priorities. I wouldn't mind WiS done right. It'd be cool to be able to say, customize my hangar to look they way I like it, maybe have the ability to stand on the balcony and look at all the spaceships in the hangar.
But it's non-vital cosmetics that would have to be developed in a way that doesn't hinder gameplay. Developed without diverting resources from gameplay elements that sorely need attention. If I have to choose between shiney hangar and well-working corp roles, POS code ans Sov? I'll pick the latter even if the hangar will become a static screen. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2308
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:25:00 -
[2831] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Arduemont wrote:What has this thread become? Something ISD is about to drop a hammer on of being kicked so far off topic it forgot what it was about?
It's easy to get it back to rails. Just look at my avatar; this coat is the best CCP has done for me this year. Now if i just could match it with some stockings developed with the same paint-on technique as sleeve tattoos and the cybernetic arm... I would like to get very dark green stockings with a thin golden seam line on the back...
(But i am aware that such change would make life unbearable to all the HTFU utlra-l33t pivipirs) The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2308
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:31:00 -
[2832] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:To be quite honest, in my case, it's not about wanting it's about priorities. I wouldn't mind WiS done right. It'd be cool to be able to say, customize my hangar to look they way I like it, maybe have the ability to stand on the balcony and look at all the spaceships in the hangar.
But it's non-vital cosmetics that would have to be developed in a way that doesn't hinder gameplay. Developed without diverting resources from gameplay elements that sorely need attention. If I have to choose between shiney hangar and well-working corp roles, POS code ans Sov? I'll pick the latter even if the hangar will become a static screen.
Have a tip free of charge: Artists don't code mechanics.
The whole funny thing with avatar customization is that it requires very minimal manpower and such manpower is untransferable to "serious issues".
Have you seen the cybernetic arm? It takes two persons to do such a thing -an artist, and a QA developer working part time to test and include the packages in the next release build. Probably some supervision is needed too, but all in all is a very little efort that pays out a lot -150$ for each CE that's been bought because it includes the arm and that makes the deal. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:40:00 -
[2833] - Quote
No, they don't. But coders code mechanics on which the assets are based. Someone needs to get camera, transitions, lighting and navigation mechanics to work and that's a coder's job.
Similarily, often artists need to make assets for the coder's new toys - such as shiney buttons, new animations (Bastion) new models (Golem, Stratios, Astero, new structures) along with proper rigging, texturing, mapping.
As for the customization options - they seem to have more in stock, probably it's being held by suits that debate on microtransaction model. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3015
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:42:00 -
[2834] - Quote
Camera....navi....the most being done recently is switching database code to re balance ships. Literally changing numbers. I work with clinical databases and can confirm this is no small, simple task, sure but...to focus 70-80% on that is just inefficient.
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:46:00 -
[2835] - Quote
I doubt the rest of the team sits idle. They're quite likely, and a lot of people are hoping for it, reworking the epic clusterfuck that's POS code. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2309
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 18:50:00 -
[2836] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Camera....navi....the most being done recently is switching database code to re balance ships. Literally changing numbers. I work with clinical databases and can confirm this is no small, simple task, sure but...to focus 70-80% on that is just inefficient.
By definition, restating a ship is wasted on anyone not using it or not interested to use it. With the restat thing, CCP is putting to use existing assets so the players get extra content without extra assets, but it also creates a strong "been there, done that" feeling.
I mean, i may fly my "new" Golem, but essentialy will be doing the same i've been doing for years. It is nice to have a different way to asplode NPCs, but it's nothing new. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22192
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:34:00 -
[2837] - Quote
Oh, I think it's ver much on topic... we basically just explored why WiS is no longer on the agenda: Because it belongs to the content that benefits mostly players which are no longer of any importance to CCP. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1055
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 19:56:00 -
[2838] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Trii Seo wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Hi-sec'ers are often disregarded because of their unwillingness to leave hi-sec in search of bigger and better things. Simple risk vs reward Still, they are paying customers, and many of those are all but fed up by a) the neglect from CCP and b) the persecution from other, presumably "better" (playing the game as it is supposed to be played) gamers... many of those have been waiting for EVE to change to make either of those issues better, but I doubt many of them will wait much longer. Catering only to one group of ones playerbase, and calling that "a sandbox" doesn't cut it... a true sandbox has content for every type of player. Neglect? Reworked bounties Reworked killrights Reworked crimewatch Reworked war declaration system Mining barge buffs 4 out of 5 of those things are totally irrelevant to anyone not interested in PvP. Bounty system is a idiotic schoolyard mechanic. Killrights are a scam. Crimewatch was a bloody mess, now it's just a mess. Wardec system has always been a way to abuse and harrass non-PvPers. Mining barge buffs merely adressed endless years of abuse on non-PvPers. The things I do and like of this game are the same now than 5 years ago. I think that CCP has had ample time to give me something new to chew on. And by the way, if they wanted to get rid of me, they should had not advertised Walking in Stations. That kept me subbed for all of 2010, 2011 and most of 2012. They took my money, my hopes, my suggestions, and i got nothing but disappointment and bitterness.
Anyone not interested in PvP is in the wrong game, the only part of sandbox mmo-rpg's that are not about PvP competition is the login screen, and even that can be PVP since you can have a keylogger on your computer.
The fact that a themepark carebear avatar freak like you is crying all over the forums shows that CCP is doing a wonderful job on EvE Online, the sandbox mmo-rpg. The Tears Must Flow |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
661
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:02:00 -
[2839] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Oh, I think it's ver much on topic... we basically just explored why WiS is no longer on the agenda: Because it belongs to the content that benefits mostly players which are no longer of any importance to CCP.
Nah, is true that bounties and killrights system, the crimewatch revamp, and the few things in the last expansion were aimed not to high sec as game area but to a specific set of players. Also the whole ship rebalancing is basically an huge, indirect nerf to T2 ships (these were added to the game just to cater to hardcore PvPer) and an indirect, huge nerf to PvP risks/costs.
I'm not saying this is bad; but CCP perfectly see where 70-80 % of their playerbase prefer to play, and is not in null. Always been so and these proportions are not going to change.
But WiS is in no way related to this, they use the priority excuse to justify the fact that they're not doing anything relevant in any direction. WiS is trasversal, as could be the new POS system and any other strategic EVE development.
It's simply they are working on something else :)
Maaybe having a rack of several titles (even if not properly developed) to show is better in case, in the future, one would to sell; is added value for the company.
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:09:00 -
[2840] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Anyone not interested in PvP is in the wrong game, the only part of sandbox mmo-rpg's that are not about PvP competition is the login screen, and even that can be PVP since you can have a keylogger on your computer.
The fact that a themepark carebear avatar freak like you is crying all over the forums shows that CCP is doing a wonderful job on EvE Online, the sandbox mmo-rpg.
Well that's a bit extreme, keyloggers are a severe EULA (and not only) breach but it's a point - at some point you can just pvp by ordering others to shoot the bad guys for you. No need to log in, just ping on comms and off we march to another war.
As for not playing in null - seems like with Odyssey the numbers of people day-tripping into this hellhole has started to go up. We'll see how this ends and how CCP iterates on the project of "get people to 0.0". Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2311
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:11:00 -
[2841] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Trii Seo wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Hi-sec'ers are often disregarded because of their unwillingness to leave hi-sec in search of bigger and better things. Simple risk vs reward Still, they are paying customers, and many of those are all but fed up by a) the neglect from CCP and b) the persecution from other, presumably "better" (playing the game as it is supposed to be played) gamers... many of those have been waiting for EVE to change to make either of those issues better, but I doubt many of them will wait much longer. Catering only to one group of ones playerbase, and calling that "a sandbox" doesn't cut it... a true sandbox has content for every type of player. Neglect? Reworked bounties Reworked killrights Reworked crimewatch Reworked war declaration system Mining barge buffs 4 out of 5 of those things are totally irrelevant to anyone not interested in PvP. Bounty system is a idiotic schoolyard mechanic. Killrights are a scam. Crimewatch was a bloody mess, now it's just a mess. Wardec system has always been a way to abuse and harrass non-PvPers. Mining barge buffs merely adressed endless years of abuse on non-PvPers. The things I do and like of this game are the same now than 5 years ago. I think that CCP has had ample time to give me something new to chew on. And by the way, if they wanted to get rid of me, they should had not advertised Walking in Stations. That kept me subbed for all of 2010, 2011 and most of 2012. They took my money, my hopes, my suggestions, and i got nothing but disappointment and bitterness. Anyone not interested in PvP is in the wrong game, the only part of sandbox mmo-rpg's that are not about PvP competition is the login screen, and even that can be PVP since you can have a keylogger on your computer.
By PvP I mean destroying ships. But EVE is more than that. An empty belt is PvP. A lower or higher order is PvP. Getting first is PvP. If EVE was just about destroying ships, it would be just a glorified Dark Orbit.
For different reasons, CCP talking about the issue among others, some expected to set up a shop, make a shady deal or much more, as PvP. I still dream of playing politics as PvP. I would like to be the person you must talk to when the Amarran empire blackouts all your accounts and you can't deal with its stations. Or maybe be the one asking the right NPC to do exactly that to you, for the good of the Empire (and of your war targets, who paid me to do exactly that). Of course, that's because i'm a dreamer, something that CCP is seriously missing. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3015
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:18:00 -
[2842] - Quote
Don't bother Ishta. He's one of those extremists who can't be reasoned with (save with an autocannon to the face).
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22192
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:25:00 -
[2843] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:By PvP I mean destroying ships. But EVE is more than that. An empty belt is PvP. A lower or higher order is PvP. Getting first is PvP. If EVE was just about destroying ships, it would be just a glorified Dark Orbit. And that's exactly the problem... the only thing CCP is contantly revisiting is ship2ship PvP... yea, and explorations, but we know how that turned out... industry, science, trading, etc. all that has been pretty much the same for last 10 years. The only thing new that came in that regard was PI, and that is equally boring/convoluted like everything else non "pew pew" related. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
212
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:27:00 -
[2844] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:By PvP I mean destroying ships. But EVE is more than that. An empty belt is PvP. A lower or higher order is PvP. Getting first is PvP. If EVE was just about destroying ships, it would be just a glorified Dark Orbit.
For different reasons, CCP talking about the issue among others, some expected to set up a shop, make a shady deal or much more, as PvP. I still dream of playing politics as PvP. I would like to be the person you must talk to when the Amarran empire blackouts all your accounts and you can't deal with its stations. Or maybe be the one asking the right NPC to do exactly that to you, for the good of the Empire (and of your war targets, who paid me to do exactly that). Of course, that's because i'm a dreamer, something that CCP is seriously missing.
It already happens, just not in hisec. It happens outside of empire space. Hell, it's a dream of many to rule - few achieve it, proving somewhere on the way that they have the skills to lead. Damned kings of a damned world, warlords and their entourage of diplomats, strategists and fleet commanders. Want to dock at their little corner of space? Need to talk to their diplomats. Talk mutual enemies? Same thing.
Of course, for now there's little reason to arrange anything or move out there in the first place - unless you like the lifestyle. You can get rich rolling solo in hisec just as well and safe as in null.
And if you don't want to be friends, well, make other friends. And tell them to shoot the ones you don't like until they die. Some get their kicks through raw violence, others through commanding said raw violence and others through manufacturing, researching and providing tools to conduct violence. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
284
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:33:00 -
[2845] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Oh, I think it's ver much on topic... we basically just explored why WiS is no longer on the agenda: Because it belongs to the content that benefits mostly players which are no longer of any importance to CCP. As a predominately 0.0 type player who's spent a fair bit of time out there with other players of a similar mindset - WiS is important to us.
I think the attempt to split WiS into a non-pvp vs pvp battle does the whole thing a disservice. I want WiS.
Many of the other pvpers that I know want WiS - not all but most.
There is a -lot- that can be done with WiS that would augment the overall gameplay experience regardless if someone is a pvper or a "carebear."
I really want CCP to finish it by linking it directly to the rest of the game (things like viewscreens, camera drones, communications channels, strategy type rooms, planning displays, war tables - etc) in a meaningful manner.
I met some people who recently were talking about starting up in EVE and had never done so before. One of the first questions I was asked, "Can we see our characters and interact directly?"
When I said, "No, but you can do stuff together in space in your ships" there was a definite loss of interest. In fact, none of them bothered to sign up because they didn't want to be spaceships. I tried to explain that they were capsuleers but, apparently, my explanations didn't work.
I believe that WiS would benefit the game. I think it would expand the appeal of the game. But, then again, it also would depend on the implementation. I don't think that WiS would take anything away from the rest of the game. After all, people who aren't interested in WiS wouldn't have to participate just like how people who don't want to mine don't have to.
I still hope that it'll happen. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3016
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:37:00 -
[2846] - Quote
You have no idea how much easier my job as an FC would be if I could have a war/strategy room. NO IDEA.
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
213
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 20:55:00 -
[2847] - Quote
Alright so my constant tech "Resources!" "Time!" "PvP!" "HTFU!" aside:
The thing that always bothered me as a person is how samey the hangars look. A forward staging point, haphazardly estabilished before the conflict even started looks exactly the same way a crowded main invasion outpost does. Despite the fact that the latter houses several thousand people worth of ships and combat equipment and the other a handful of weirdos.
Similarily, a station that has been long held as a capital of an alliance looks the same way a station that was recently shelled by dreadnought fire. It would be cool if we saw changes depending on how hangars are stocked, how many people are based there at the moment and what state the station is in.
Let a forward outpost have this feel of a worn down, semi-abandoned station nobody visits. Let a big outpost housing the bulk of invading force have cargo drones buzz around with crates of ammo, tow ships with a returning fleet pass by as they dock. Let stations long held by an alliance (go by sov index of the system?) look cooler, more polished, maybe with logos of the holding alliance.
And finally, a reinforced/under attack or recently conquered station. Debris? Flame/smoke particle effects? Repair bots scurrying about patching holes in the wall?
Would be a cool thing and would not generate the need to load captain's quarters on each dock-up. Hell, maybe add some way to customize the place - nothing says home like some Sansha spikes in your hangar. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2311
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:02:00 -
[2848] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:By PvP I mean destroying ships. But EVE is more than that. An empty belt is PvP. A lower or higher order is PvP. Getting first is PvP. If EVE was just about destroying ships, it would be just a glorified Dark Orbit. And that's exactly the problem... the only thing CCP is constantly revisiting is ship2ship PvP... yea, and explorations, but we know how that turned out... industry, science, trading, etc. all that has been pretty much the same for last 10 years. The only thing new that came in that regard was PI, and that is equally boring/convoluted like everything else non "pew pew" related.
Well, PI is being iterated... by allowing to slice the throat of any semi-serious PI effort. I can hear the imbeciles thinking: "This way, people who do PI, will do PvP to keep doing PI! Success!". And then will look in another direction once the average serious PI'er unsubs after his operations were interrupted by a wardec about a critical CO.
Highsec POCOs were a part of the PI scheme since the beginning, but weren't implemented for years. That allowed PI to become a minor niche to some people, and now this people are being evicted by implementing the original plan, which was a piece of rubbish because PI is not worth a single wardec.
Sounds familiar? it's not the first case. Level 5 missions were intended to be lowsec multiplayer content, but were poorly implemented and a bug spawned them in hisec. The niche was filled by top of the line mission runners who soloed them, and then CCP fixed the bug, evicted the Lvl5 soloers and rendered Level 5 missions unused as their pay is **** poor to share and soloing them in lowsec is not worth it economically wise. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
662
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:58:00 -
[2849] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: Would be a cool thing and would not generate the need to load captain's quarters on each dock-up. Hell, maybe add some way to customize the place - nothing says home like some Sansha spikes in your hangar.
This I'd like too, not only CQ but also station models. And new pirate station model for NPC null should be added, so, yes, sansha station should have their own models. One thing that always bothered me is the lack of spacescape characterization.
They started to fix this in Crucibble, and did a great job with the region based backgrounds, but then they stopped it too.
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
492
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:59:00 -
[2850] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Trii Seo wrote:Arduemont wrote:What has this thread become? Something ISD is about to drop a hammer on of being kicked so far off topic it forgot what it was about? It's easy to get it back to rails. Just look at my avatar; this coat is the best CCP has done for me this year. Now if i just could match it with some stockings developed with the same paint-on technique as sleeve tattoos and the cybernetic arm... I would like to get very dark green stockings with a thin golden seam line on the back... (But i am aware that such change would make life unbearable to all the HTFU utlra-l33t pivipirs)
It's a very nice coat, it suits you and you wear it well. CCP should unlock the remaining art assets for the nex store and put them on sale in the game for isk. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
492
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 22:04:00 -
[2851] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Camera....navi....the most being done recently is switching database code to re balance ships. Literally changing numbers. I work with clinical databases and can confirm this is no small, simple task, sure but...to focus 70-80% on that is just inefficient.
Well, I play with databases all day and I wouldn't mind betting that you can change the ship stats in an instant just by pressing save. Balancing don't rub off that well on me as I think it's a disguise for all of the things that CCP are doing on the side such as Dust, WOD and now Valkyrie, like anyone intelligent honestly believes that a couple of talented had some spare time and put together a prototype. It's bullshit, stuff like Valkyrie takes months of development time from whole teams of developers.
That's why there's no WIS, our so called expansions we've been getting contain about as much effort and code changes that would have gone into a patch when I first started playing. CCP is cheating the player base and I feel quite abused by this. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2273
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 22:04:00 -
[2852] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: Anyone not interested in PvP is in the wrong game, the only part of sandbox mmo-rpg's that are not about PvP competition is the login screen, and even that can be PVP since you can have a keylogger on your computer.
The fact that a themepark carebear avatar freak like you is crying all over the forums shows that CCP is doing a wonderful job on EvE Online, the sandbox mmo-rpg.
You are not serious saying that key-logging is PvP and part of the game? Hahaha. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22192
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 22:04:00 -
[2853] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:It's a very nice coat, it suits you and you wear it well. CCP should unlock the remaining art assets for the nex store and put them on sale in the game for isk. Agreed. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1065
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 22:18:00 -
[2854] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: Anyone not interested in PvP is in the wrong game, the only part of sandbox mmo-rpg's that are not about PvP competition is the login screen, and even that can be PVP since you can have a keylogger on your computer.
The fact that a themepark carebear avatar freak like you is crying all over the forums shows that CCP is doing a wonderful job on EvE Online, the sandbox mmo-rpg.
You are not serious saying that key-logging is PvP and part of the game? Hahaha. Just wow. Maybe I should steal your credit card info. Hey, it's just PvP right? You are such a tool.
People who will cut the power lines to your house to destroy your internet spaceship. The Tears Must Flow |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2274
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 22:20:00 -
[2855] - Quote
I'm not reading a blog because you can't be bothered to put together your own reply. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Odelya d'Hanguest
ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES 24eme Legion Etrangere
168
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 22:35:00 -
[2856] - Quote
As a man who in real life only sleeps with American Apparel models, I find the undersupply of fashionable clothing options, the non-implementation of already designed stuff, and adding new designs disappointing.
Add it. Make Ishtanchuk happy. Finish the job youGÇÖve started.
Love, Odelya Book of Prayers GÇö GalNet Profile GÇö Viva la Legion! GÇö Laudetur Khanid! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
214
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 14:52:00 -
[2857] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I'm not reading a blog because you can't be bothered to put together your own reply.
It's actually TMC and a good article on its own. EVE players are damn crazy and on some levels it leaks out to RL. Hell, look at the fanfest disaster that made The Mittani lose his CSM chair. Hell, back in many other games you usually get a crowd of neckbeards that at most will post up a nice ragepost on the forums.
EVE has smart IT/Law/Science neckbeards, military/ex-military neckbeards and russians. It's all stuffed into a single big container where they're conditioned to poke each other with sticks and be bastards. Adding drama and valuable things to the mix is like creating a nice petroleum/air mixture: all you need is a spark, then you can put sunglasses on and watch it go.
Oh, and roast popcorn to eat while behelding drama, hilarious plans (LV titan power cutting, mentioned), forum dumps, DoSing, drunken insults on Fanfest and the resulting backlash... list goes on. EVE is so metagamey, the metagame is EVE. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
293
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 21:10:00 -
[2858] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Oh, and roast popcorn to eat while behelding drama, hilarious plans (LV titan power cutting, mentioned), forum dumps, DoSing, drunken insults at Fanfest and the resulting backlash... list goes on. EVE is so metagamey, the metagame is EVE. Yes, yes... but it's not as fun as eating popcorn while reading the desperate EVE rants you make on an avatar gameplay thread when you realise the game is going to $hit with the management/marketing options taken and the sandbox-breaking favoritism/RMT scandal.
Now that's entertainment
R.I.P. MJ GÖÑGÖÑGÖÑ Hail to the King baby
Michael Joseph Jackson wrote:I Said You Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' ... |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
215
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 21:22:00 -
[2859] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Trii Seo wrote:Oh, and roast popcorn to eat while behelding drama, hilarious plans (LV titan power cutting, mentioned), forum dumps, DoSing, drunken insults at Fanfest and the resulting backlash... list goes on. EVE is so metagamey, the metagame is EVE. Yes, yes... but it's not as fun as eating popcorn while reading the desperate EVE rants you make on an avatar gameplay thread when you realise the game is going to $hit with the management/marketing options taken and the sandbox-breaking favoritism/RMT scandal. Now that's entertainment
Why thank you, I aim to please.
That said, I don't think it's going to **** - I actually think things are looking up, barring the entertaining SOMER drama I care quite little about. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
690
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 21:41:00 -
[2860] - Quote
CCP isn't going to waste any resources on avatar based game play unless there's actually any reason to do so.
And so far there's been no ideas of any game play worth of investing any resources in.
The only functional and relevant ideas presented in this thread so far are way beyond what can be done without a serious rewrite of the avatar engine.
And CCP already has a group of employees working on avatar based game play.
Duplicating their work would be stupid.
If you really want avatar based game play from CCP then you're barking up the wrong tree.
You should be looking at Atlanta, Georgia and WoD, since that's where the future of EvE's avatar gameplay is.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
293
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 22:08:00 -
[2861] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:CCP is wasting resources on floppy side projects without any reason to do so.
I agree. Please let us know when avatar gameplay development is complete and EVE development is continued, so we can then give CCP some more of our money. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2289
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 22:11:00 -
[2862] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:CCP isn't going to waste any resources on avatar based game play unless there's actually any reason to do so.
And so far there's been no ideas of any game play worth of investing any resources in.
Your posting in a thread that was created by CCP to announce that they have found content worth creating for Avatar based game play. I think you missed something important.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
215
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 22:28:00 -
[2863] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:CCP isn't going to waste any resources on avatar based game play unless there's actually any reason to do so.
And so far there's been no ideas of any game play worth of investing any resources in.
Your posting in a thread that was created by CCP to announce that they have found content worth creating for Avatar based game play. I think you missed something important.
I think that since then, CCP Bayesian mentioned that Team Avatar was reassigned to other tasks. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2289
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 22:35:00 -
[2864] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Arduemont wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:CCP isn't going to waste any resources on avatar based game play unless there's actually any reason to do so.
And so far there's been no ideas of any game play worth of investing any resources in.
Your posting in a thread that was created by CCP to announce that they have found content worth creating for Avatar based game play. I think you missed something important. I think that since then, CCP Bayesian mentioned that Team Avatar was reassigned to other tasks.
I know that. Team Avatar hasn't been around for some point. That's besides the point. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
215
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 22:41:00 -
[2865] - Quote
Yeaaa that kind of says "hey we canned the project."
Still, with talks about NEX store and new cosmetic items being released we may see this mess sorted in a nice way - though WiS is still way off. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
293
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:11:00 -
[2866] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Yeaaa that kind of says "hey we canned the project."
Still, with talks about NEX store and new cosmetic items being released we may see this mess sorted in a nice way - though WiS is still way off.
No biggie, it's not like we're in a rush to sub our accounts back, plus we got other incoming PC space games where to spend our money at. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
221
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:26:00 -
[2867] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Trii Seo wrote:Yeaaa that kind of says "hey we canned the project."
Still, with talks about NEX store and new cosmetic items being released we may see this mess sorted in a nice way - though WiS is still way off. No biggie, it's not like we're in a rush to sub our accounts back, plus we got other incoming PC space games where to spend our money at.
Well I don't exactly see a massive drop in amount of people logged in. Hell, it's been going up since Incarna so even despite the upcoming second coming of dogfighter genre CCP is doing something right. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
293
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:41:00 -
[2868] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: Well I don't exactly see a massive drop in amount of people logged in. Hell, it's been going up since Incarna so even despite the upcoming second coming of dogfighter genre CCP is doing something right.
Note: "Ammount of people logged in" doesnt equal "Ammount of people subbed". There is this thing called PLEX that is used to add game time to the accounts.
Its price is currently soaring at approx. 650mil isk (when after incarna it was at a mere 300mil isk) with as few as a dozen units in the major trade hubs. It doesnt take an expert economist to grasp what that means regarding the ammount of people paying a sub vs the ones using isk to buy PLEX from others to play.
It's no use hiding the annual subcription numbers like they did recently, we can do the math. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
221
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:47:00 -
[2869] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Trii Seo wrote: Well I don't exactly see a massive drop in amount of people logged in. Hell, it's been going up since Incarna so even despite the upcoming second coming of dogfighter genre CCP is doing something right.
Note: "Ammount of people logged in" doesnt equal "Ammount of people subbed". There is this thing called PLEX that is used to add game time to the accounts. Its price is currently soaring at approx. 650mil isk (when after incarna it was at a mere 300mil isk) with as few as a dozen units in the major trade hubs. It doesnt take an expert economist to grasp what that means regarding the ammount of people paying a sub vs the ones using isk to buy PLEX from others to play. It's no use hiding the annual subcription numbers like they did recently, we can do the math.
Riiight and that's in no way tied to the usual climb of PLEX prices around this time of the year if I recall or new services that were introduced.
Like multi-character training. For PLEX. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
293
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:51:00 -
[2870] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: Riiight and that's in no way tied to the usual climb of PLEX prices around this time of the year if I recall or new services that were introduced.
Like multi-character training. For PLEX.
If that PLEX used in those dual trainings was bought from the store and used directly instead of bought by someone and traded for isk, its isk market price wouldn't be going up. |
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Arduemont
The State of War.
2292
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 08:16:00 -
[2871] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Yeaaa that kind of says "hey we canned the project."
CCP have regularly re-emphasised that it's on hold, not cancelled. CCP's promises don't mean anything to me, but again, that's besides the point. CCP will still have the prototype, they can uncancel it given appropriate pressure.
Trii Seo wrote: Well I don't exactly see a massive drop in amount of people logged in.
That's because historically we see very high active player numbers this close to an expansion release.
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Your right, they are not dropping. They are not going up as expected though either. Bear in mind that there is always a lowering of subs and active players after the novelty of a new expansion wears off. If this expansion doesn't raise subs and activity in the mean time, that lowering of subs will be a crash below the norm.
Trii Seo wrote: Riiight and that's in no way tied to the usual climb of PLEX prices around this time of the year if I recall or new services that were introduced.
It is a weak hypothesis to tie PLEX prices to number of subs, but that said PLEX prices should have dropped dramatically recently with the massive influx of cheap PLEX accidentally sold by Amazon. Not gone up. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
221
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 09:54:00 -
[2872] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:It is a weak hypothesis to tie PLEX prices to number of subs, but that said PLEX prices should have dropped dramatically recently with the massive influx of cheap PLEX accidentally sold by Amazon. Not gone up.
With the volumes of PLEX usually going through Jita, it's hardly surprising. The offer didn't last long and I think I recall it being restricted to US-only. A lot of that PLEX ended up in hands of speculators and market wizards so they'll take care of the price not dropping.
And no, the amount of PLEX is actually a terrible idea when it comes to looking at sub numbers. Also, last time CCP focused solely on getting money and more subs we got a really nice "Greed is Good" memo didn't we? Or was that because they decided to stick to developing what's effectively EVE's core gameplay. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2336
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 10:17:00 -
[2873] - Quote
Regarding subscription numbers and PCU, they're hovering around the line of neutral to light positive growth, despite the massive stimuli they are receiving.
The fact is that 2011 was CCP's best year ever. Even with Summer of Rage killing the growth in the 2nd semester of 2011, 2010-2011 had the biggest revenue increase ever.
Since then, they've been putting a lot more effort in marketing (selling the game) and have obtained a slight growth. Run a lot faster, advance far less.
Something was making them grow fast until 2011, and since 2011 they're struggling to keep the numbers up.
And then, what, oh WHAT, was CCP doing until 2011, and haven't done since?
They were chasing a vision. A vision shared by the players. A vision that thrilled everyone.
Now they have abandoned the vision. Have replaced it with endless housekeeping chores. And albeit they have announced a new vision, turns that nobody asked it and nobody is even minimally interested with it. Even now there are more players interested with WiS than with the Hallelujah Plan, despite the former is barely alive and the later is new born.
Meanwhile a game that still doesn't exists already haves more unique users than EVE just by promising a vision.
It's never about what you want to sell, but about what others want to buy. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
221
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 10:40:00 -
[2874] - Quote
A vision full of empty promises that, in the end, failed to deliver?
Roberts has only made promises so far, we're yet to see how his product holds up in gameplay value. For now seems he sold Incarna for over 20 million (and original Incarna generated the Summer of Rage). After summer, CCP realized that those little chores are something you gotta do to keep players playing and fixed a lot of things in Crucible. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Frying Doom
2935
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 10:45:00 -
[2875] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Meanwhile a game that still doesn't exists already haves more unique users than EVE just by promising a vision. And what a vision it is
I just love the cockpit view so far https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13349-Press-Roundup
and the images and vids on the forum Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22193
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 10:56:00 -
[2876] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Roberts has only made promises so far, we're yet to see how his product holds up in gameplay value. Not entirely true... he already made 15+ games that, in part, revolutionized gaming... I'm pretty convinced he will do that again. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
664
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 10:58:00 -
[2877] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:That's because historically we see very high active player numbers this close to an expansion release. http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquilityYour right, they are not dropping. They are not going up as expected though either. i
Yes. From a long term perspective the last grow is for the segment Trinity - Apocrypha. After this the trend is stagnant and stable on 30k (with cyclic peaks and drops).
But those data generally means nothing since do not take in count the relative market numbers: aaving stable numbers in a market that is growing like the hell is not a success. 0 is bettter than -1, but keep having 0 for years when MMORPG market around grows +400% for years means you're doing something wrong. Mostly when you don't have direct competitors.
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Lina Theist
Rosendal Research and Development
26
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 11:34:00 -
[2878] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Arduemont wrote:That's because historically we see very high active player numbers this close to an expansion release. http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquilityYour right, they are not dropping. They are not going up as expected though either. i Yes. From a long term perspective the last grow is for the segment Trinity - Apocrypha. After this the trend is stagnant and stable on 30k (with cyclic peaks and drops). But those data generally means nothing since do not take in count the relative market numbers: aaving stable numbers in a market that is growing like the hell is not a success. 0 is bettter than -1, but keep having 0 for years when MMORPG market around grows +400% for years means you're doing something wrong. Mostly when you don't have direct competitors.
Most mmorpgs are f2p nowadays, and we all know what happened when CCP tried that. Eve would explode more than 400% if it went f2p, with the majority being the same old players. I don't know anything about revenue from f2p mmorpgs vs p2p ones. I reckon you earn more per player if it's p2p, than f2p.
Quality > quantity imho |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
664
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 11:39:00 -
[2879] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: After summer, CCP realized that those little chores are something you gotta do to keep players playing and fixed a lot of things in Crucible.
I don't know where you got this weird idea, but CCP always fixed and polished things, in any expansions, in the past even more than now. The difference is:
Before: they polish and fix gameplay AND extended it (and this produced growth) according to a strategic vision
Now: they only polish and fix exsiting stuff (and this is good) and... and not much more; the few change on design level are genrally nerf and trivializations with no strategic idea.
The reason of the change is simply they focusing their devlopments resources on something else, not on EVE.
I don't know who told you that before Crucible there was no feature polishing and bug fixing. But - since you're only here from 2011, so cannot have a direct knowledge of this - you may want to study and check the past espansions patch notes instead of relying of other people chitchatting.
|
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
664
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 11:51:00 -
[2880] - Quote
Lina Theist wrote: f2p nowadays, and we all know what happened when CCP tried that. Eve would explode more than 400% if it went f2p, with the majority being the same old players. I don't know anything about revenue from f2p mmorpgs vs p2p ones. I reckon you earn more per player if it's p2p, than f2p.
beside the fact that EVE is largely F2P too... But how is this related with what I siad?
EVE current numbers are basically the same as UO and EQ BEFORE the boom of the MMORPG market, 10-12 years ago. When online gaming was a very small and limited market and a playerbase of 30, 40, 50k could sound like amazing. What I'm saying is that in all this time the online gaming user and potential users pools growth drammatically and CCP was unable to intercpet anything of this. Even considering only the subscription based numbers.
Having 100 in respect of a pool of 1.000 is not the same as having 150 in respect of a pool of 100.000. |
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
1128
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 11:58:00 -
[2881] - Quote
Lina Theist wrote:Most mmorpgs are f2p nowadays, and we all know what happened when CCP tried that. Problem is CCP successfully pushed EVE into P2W F2P mode: instead of developing subscription-worthy sci-fi game with rich "themepark-y" content they are developing worthless "player interactions" (World of Tanks / Star Conflict / War Thunder / LoL / etc. = F2P games) - to sell more GTC* to players who want to compensate their losses from "player interactions" (yesterday I've seen a person purchased deadspace-equipped NM for GTCs after he was scammed). So content which does not promote PvP and GTC sales directly - it has zero chance to appear in EVE (WiS, hi-sec PvE).
* that's why CCP praised SOMER - because losses in casinos are forcing players to buy more GTC |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22194
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 12:34:00 -
[2882] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:EVE current numbers are basically the same as UO and EQ BEFORE the boom of the MMORPG market, 10-12 years ago. When online gaming was a very small and limited market and a playerbase of 30, 40, 50k could sound like amazing. What I'm saying is that in all this time the online gaming user and potential users pools growth drammatically and CCP was unable to intercpet anything of this. Even considering only the subscription based numbers.
...and that is why? Because, like the MMOs of old, EVE had no real competition for years. It's practically the UO of space sandbox games. That'll change soon, though... "all" it needs is the WoW of space games to come along. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
665
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 12:55:00 -
[2883] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote:EVE current numbers are basically the same as UO and EQ BEFORE the boom of the MMORPG market, 10-12 years ago. When online gaming was a very small and limited market and a playerbase of 30, 40, 50k could sound like amazing. What I'm saying is that in all this time the online gaming user and potential users pools growth drammatically and CCP was unable to intercpet anything of this. Even considering only the subscription based numbers. ...and that is why? Because, like the MMOs of old, EVE had no real competition for years. It's practically the UO of space sandbox games. That'll change soon, though... "all" it needs is the WoW of space games to come along.
Actually, yes. And this is my fear, since I loved UO and i wouldn't see this happening again.
When EQ was launched, witht heir 2-300.000 players crushed UO. At the time the common opinion was that 2-300k players was the max possible for this new MMORPG ****.
Even UO guys thought that the market was saturated, there was no margin left for them so basically gave up, halted any project to extend UO as well as to release an UO2, switched UO to a mantainence status/life support (small updates, bug fixing, tweaks, rebalancing, but no relevant gameplay improvement) and this basically signed the death of UO and the raise of the themepark model over the sandbox model; that we still suffer. But could have been differently if UO was able to kee
After some time Blizzard recycled some EQ concept and proved that the market was ready for milions of subscribers. But this is another story.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2343
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 13:42:00 -
[2884] - Quote
Some napkin calculation numbers:
CCP yearly revenue: 63 million USD Subscribers (inc. China server?): 500,000 Dollars/subscriber/year: 126 Dollars/subscriber/month: 10,5 USD
Something doesn't adds up, does it? I mean, every player must pay one month. Obviously China players pay less but then, how much would that be to justifiy how CCP is essentially not earning 3 to 4 dollars per month and subscriber?
Either sub numbers are too high compared to reality, or subscribers are not paying a whole year. 126 USD are 10 months per year, roughly, with long subscription plans. Even less months if paid with PLEX.
Just a curious thing...
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
221
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 13:53:00 -
[2885] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Either sub numbers are too high compared to reality, or subscribers are not paying a whole year. 126 USD are 10 months per year, roughly, with long subscription plans. Even less months if paid with PLEX. Just a curious thing...
Discount GTCs sold through resellers such as SOMER, for example.
And I am aware of what Roberts did in the past, but past is past. I don't doubt he can make a good game. I've mentioned Freelancer earlier - it was a good game, I enjoyed it greatly.
But it wasn't what he promised before it released, was it. Roberts promised a "simulated, living scifi universe". In reality, outside of missions Freelancer was rather boring and repetitive.
I'm positive that Star Citizen is fully capable of being a competent game when released. I'm nearly certain though that it won't meet the overhyped expectations of a crowd treating it as a messiah among game. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2343
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 14:13:00 -
[2886] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Either sub numbers are too high compared to reality, or subscribers are not paying a whole year. 126 USD are 10 months per year, roughly, with long subscription plans. Even less months if paid with PLEX. Just a curious thing... Discount GTCs sold through resellers such as SOMER, for example. And I am aware of what Roberts did in the past, but past is past. I don't doubt he can make a good game. I've mentioned Freelancer earlier - it was a good game, I enjoyed it greatly. But it wasn't what he promised before it released, was it. Roberts promised a "simulated, living scifi universe". In reality, outside of missions Freelancer was rather boring and repetitive. I'm positive that Star Citizen is fully capable of being a competent game when released. I'm nearly certain though that it won't meet the overhyped expectations of a crowd treating it as a messiah among game.
Freelancer was what Microsoft allowed it to be, as many other games have suffered. Roberts' obsession to never deal with a publisher again is not whimsical, but haves sound reasons behind.
Of course this means that SC will be the real deal, for good or for bad. Will SC live to the hype? No game does. But SC has taped on a niche that used to belong to EVE, and is beating it on its own vision of making the ultimate SF game. At 289,000 unique users, SC already haves more users than EVE has ever had at any time. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
222
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 14:22:00 -
[2887] - Quote
Sooo SC is a cold, harsh sandbox game with single-shard universe? It's... actually not, it's got a lot of instancing going on. Can you drop a hundred capitals on someone's frig fight in SC? Can you play it unfair and get away with it, even be hailed the king of kings for doing so?
Publishers, for all the evil they tend to be (your release date is cut! ship it before christmas! no more money! make a bad ending!) also have one good thing to say: "Enough of your feature creep and promises, bucko - now start deliverin'". Roberts only has fans breathing down his neck it seems, and that's hardly as motivating to get things done right as a bunch of suits with their vast army of soulless lawyers. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
808
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 14:51:00 -
[2888] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Yeaaa that kind of says "hey we canned the project."
Still, with talks about NEX store and new cosmetic items being released we may see this mess sorted in a nice way - though WiS is still way off.
No, they had a specific project, to come up with rapid prototyping tools and show off a prototype of compelling avatar gameplay. The project was a success. People within CCP were convinced that it was possible. The decision was made not to roll the gameplay out in the near future, The members of the team were assigned to other projects, having succeeded in their task.
if anything, the rekindled interest in avatar customization and in revamping the NeX store is a sign--though admittedly, not a slam-dunk proof--that CCP is interested in bringing it back. They just have a lot of other stuff to do first.
It's easy to forget, but there are parts of EVE that were broken before Incarna, which have languished even longer. Given that they're part of the existing gameplay, they're naturally higher priorities for CCP. The current POS system was supposed to be a quick fix while CCP came up with a real model. One could argue that sov has been broken from the word go, but I'll leave that argument to someone who's lived in sov. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
222
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 15:01:00 -
[2889] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote: It's easy to forget, but there are parts of EVE that were broken before Incarna, which have languished even longer. Given that they're part of the existing gameplay, they're naturally higher priorities for CCP. The current POS system was supposed to be a quick fix while CCP came up with a real model. One could argue that sov has been broken from the word go, but I'll leave that argument to someone who's lived in sov.
SOV is indeed broken. So are POSes. And have been ever since before Incarna, you are right. Those issues, and CCP stubbornly chasing a vision instead of tending to glaring issues in the state of today contributed a lot to the summer of rage.
Riots erupted not from people's unwillingness to see WiS. Anti-WiS movement and mocking cries "Space barbie" didn't come from the fact people didn't want to walk around their holdings looking cool.
It came from CCP not addressing existing, massive issues in the state of the game today and instead promising to sort it out with another jesus feature that gloriously took flight the same way a rock doesn't. A lot of people got burned on this, and given CCP is still sorting out the pre-incarna mess it will take a few good deeds (like tiericide, medium rail rebalance etc.) to make people trust the company again. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
808
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 15:16:00 -
[2890] - Quote
I should add that PVE--which affects everybody, however indirectly--is also ancient and broken, and CCP Affinity has stated in Missions & Complexes that they're doing a ground-up rewrite of their PVE creation tools. That, too, is more important than Incarna simply because, again, it was terrible long before Incarna. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2351
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 15:17:00 -
[2891] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Sooo SC is a cold, harsh sandbox game with single-shard universe? It's... actually not, it's got a lot of instancing going on. Can you drop a hundred capitals on someone's frig fight in SC? Can you play it unfair and get away with it, even be hailed the king of kings for doing so?
Why bother doing the same as EVE does? The chances are that if you started playing EVE because you liked the genre, you played games that were a lot more like SC than as EVE. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22194
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 15:32:00 -
[2892] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Sooo SC is a cold, harsh sandbox game with single-shard universe? It's... actually not, it's got a lot of instancing going on. Can you drop a hundred capitals on someone's frig fight in SC? Can you play it unfair and get away with it, even be hailed the king of kings for doing so? No, neither do I want to. Believe it or not, but there are people, even in EVE, that think that the points you see as desirable are actually the reason the game doesn't work... EVE is cool, but it also is faulty. So faulty, in fact that CCP STILL has a hard time balancing it, 10 years after launch.
Trii Seo wrote:Publishers, for all the evil they tend to be (your release date is cut! ship it before christmas! no more money! make a bad ending!) also have one good thing to say: "Enough of your feature creep and promises, bucko - now start deliverin'". Roberts only has fans breathing down his neck it seems, and that's hardly as motivating to get things done right as a bunch of suits with their vast army of soulless lawyers. Yea... greedy publishers with not an ounce of knowledge about game development, only ridiculous deadlines and maximum profit on their minds have done the games industry any good... they all but killed the PC as an independent games platform and had only negative influences on the "art form" game for over a decade... starting with the eradication of high production value packaging, and ending with making day one patches/DLCs an accepted standard...
Truth is, industry is in abysmal state... it's stagnating on one and loosing itself on the other side. Maybe CR will succeed in changing that, maybe he will fail, but I'm very willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, since - obviously - everything else pretty much failed... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
808
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 15:54:00 -
[2893] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Trii Seo wrote:Sooo SC is a cold, harsh sandbox game with single-shard universe? It's... actually not, it's got a lot of instancing going on. Can you drop a hundred capitals on someone's frig fight in SC? Can you play it unfair and get away with it, even be hailed the king of kings for doing so? No, neither do I want to. Believe it or not, but there are people, even in EVE, that think that the points you see as desirable are actually the reason the game doesn't work... EVE is cool, but it also is faulty. So faulty, in fact that CCP STILL has a hard time balancing it, 10 years after launch.
This gets to the heart of the problem CCP faces, though. It's far, far easier to design a theme park, because you can put everyone on rails. You can make a lot of safe assumptions about what people will do when, and how. Designing a multi-player sandbox is considerably more difficult (even acknowledging the "sandbox" design style that has so many rails going in so many directions that the players never realize that they're on a train), and CCP have accomplished it mostly by reducing the number of fundamental variables in play as much as possible (shoot, heal, run), essentially eliminating terrain, pushing all the complex interaction out to comms and chat, and pushing all the lore out to prose, then handling edge cases as they come up.
It works, but it's pretty empty. One of the main reasons I want avatar gameplay is that--if they do it right--it brings complex interaction out of the little gated communities created by third-party comms software and into the game proper. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Evei Shard
229
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:02:00 -
[2894] - Quote
If CCP took a survey of all subscribers, i wonder how many would show strong interest in new features over fixing existing ones through better implementation.
Re-creating POS stuff wouldn't be adding a new feature. We have the POS system already, but it needs to be re-created.
"new" features, such as the hacking game, while really nicely done, are not as needed as restructuring of things like POSs or Sov.
I'd personally like to see CCP move forward with using the tools they already have, and rebuilding Eve's problem areas. This would include the ability for them to expand space, as some have requested, because the ability to create star systems is already in place. While it would be wonderful to see some of the ideas in the forum-of-the-forgotten come to light, there are core aspects of Eve that need to be fixed.
Just because things need to be fixed, doesn't mean they can't be fixed in a manner that adds life to the game. An excellent example of this is the upcoming changes to interceptors. CCP changed some numbers and added some functionality to the ships using things that already exist in one form or another in game.
If you used the POS system as an example of Eve in general, we have all the tools and components needed to add to what we have now. What we need more of is personal hangar array type "new features", and less siphon type "new features". Profit favors the prepared |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
298
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:55:00 -
[2895] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Arduemont wrote:It is a weak hypothesis to tie PLEX prices to number of subs, but that said PLEX prices should have dropped dramatically recently with the massive influx of cheap PLEX accidentally sold by Amazon. Not gone up. With the volumes of PLEX usually going through Jita, it's hardly surprising. The offer didn't last long and I think I recall it being restricted to US-only. A lot of that PLEX ended up in hands of speculators and market wizards so they'll take care of the price not dropping. And no, the amount of PLEX is actually a terrible idea when it comes to looking at sub numbers. Also, last time CCP focused solely on getting money and more subs we got a really nice "Greed is Good" memo didn't we? Or was that because they decided to stick to developing what's effectively EVE's core gameplay.
The "ammount of PLEX" available in the ingame market and it's isk price inflation from 300million to 650 million reflects more than a double in its demand over its supply since Incarna. Regardless of who is buying it off the market or how they are wasting it, it means it is being used more often. You dont need to pay a sub when your account has PLEX time on it, so yes, it does reflect how your subs numbers are going down. "Active accounts" does not equal "Subbed accounts" or "Logged in accounts". If you claim your sub numbers are high and growing, why hide the official numbers from yearly reports? Show them to us.
Trii Seo wrote:A vision full of empty promises that, in the end, failed to deliver?
Roberts has only made promises so far, we're yet to see how his product holds up in gameplay value. For now seems he sold Incarna for over 20 million (and original Incarna generated the Summer of Rage). After summer, CCP realized that those little chores are something you gotta do to keep players playing and fixed a lot of things in Crucible.
And I am aware of what Roberts did in the past, but past is past. I don't doubt he can make a good game. I've mentioned Freelancer earlier - it was a good game, I enjoyed it greatly.
But it wasn't what he promised before it released, was it. Roberts promised a "simulated, living scifi universe". In reality, outside of missions Freelancer was rather boring and repetitive.
I'm positive that Star Citizen is fully capable of being a competent game when released. I'm nearly certain though that it won't meet the overhyped expectations of a crowd treating it as a messiah among game.
Sooo SC is a cold, harsh sandbox game with single-shard universe? It's... actually not, it's got a lot of instancing going on. Can you drop a hundred capitals on someone's frig fight in SC? Can you play it unfair and get away with it, even be hailed the king of kings for doing so?
Roberts, as much as it may cost you to admit, programs more by himself than a whole team of CCP programmers. He's got more expertise, more experience, vision and motivation (which goes a long way). But he is also a smart man with enough sensibility to grasp that he and his team mates alone will not be able to all the work by themselves, so they are not beating on the chest yelling "We are the best and can do everything alone", coming up with Reinvented WheelsGäó and moving around the world to work on spawned side projects. Instead, they outsourced a big portion of the work to other studios (CIG, Behaviour Interactive,Turbulent, CGBot, Incan Monkey God Studios,Massive Black, Conley Swofford Media, Crytek (please consult this link to check out the full list of SC developer teams and their assignments and this video to watch their interviews and work presentations).
Trii Seo wrote:Publishers, for all the evil they tend to be (your release date is cut! ship it before christmas! no more money! make a bad ending!) also have one good thing to say: "Enough of your feature creep and promises, bucko - now start deliverin'". Roberts only has fans breathing down his neck it seems, and that's hardly as motivating to get things done right as a bunch of suits with their vast army of soulless lawyers.
CCP's stakeholders took the decision by themselves to neglect EVE and develop side games with EVE players' money, only to sell them to Sony and ask for pittance exclusivity money. It was their own decision. No one forced them to. Don't come cry crocodile tears now like "Bohoo but the bad publishers and their lawyers forced us to do it". No they didn't, you did it because you are looking to profit by scamming the players, treating them like fools, instead of creating empathy with them and developing the quality game that they wanna play. CCP's lack of motivation to continue the develoment of EVE doesn't come from Sony suits forcing them to develop other games. It comes from a basic profit oriented mindset, which ultimately and ironically is cutting the company's revenue. They are so concentrated in trying to obtain a fast buck that they forgot to deliver a quality game while trashing it with favoritism/RMT scandals. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
225
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:56:00 -
[2896] - Quote
PvE is on the long list of issues that needs addressing, the entire thing is bloody horrible and likely worst in the industry. It also affects a lot more people than just "carebears".
Well having played space games prior to EVE, I can say there isn't anything quite like it on the market. It is, despite the flaws, better than most simply because of how much you can do. You're much, much more free to do as you please in this game than others - and you're limited only by your resources and skill.
You're not shoehorned into the role of a good hero. You're not rewarded with a cookie for helping the lady cross the street. Being a total jerk doesn't automatically equal a bad ending. Game mechanics don't punish you for doing unethical things and don't artificially reward for being a righteous crusader. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
298
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 18:26:00 -
[2897] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Well having played space games prior to EVE, I can say there isn't anything quite like it on the market.
You say can say that and it is true. However new space mmorpg competiton is coming and EVE's monopoly on that market is over. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
672
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 18:36:00 -
[2898] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:ed space games prior to EVE, I can say there isn't anything quite like it on the market. It is, despite the flaws, better than most simply because of how much you can do. You're much, much more free to do as you please in this game than others - and you're limited only by your resources and skill.
You're not shoehorned into the role of a good hero. You're not rewarded with a cookie for helping the lady cross the street. Being a total jerk doesn't automatically equal a bad ending. Game mechanics don't punish you for doing unethical things and don't artificially reward for being a righteous crusader.
We all love this in EVE. And just because we love EVE we would like to see the game growing and CCP not only mantaining it but also expanding and investing their resources in it. Instead of investing in minor (and fail) seconary videogames.
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
225
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 19:45:00 -
[2899] - Quote
Well to their defense in all this, they did spoke of a vision. Again. They did mention going beyond the point of no return, players growing more independent and gaining more and more control.
In this vision fit the issues EVE is suffering from. Sov, screwed up structure mechanics, hell even PvE. People can invest over 20 million USD (I almost typed ISK there... wow, someone's suffering serious withdrawals.) into a project ran by someone who once failed to deliver on a massive scale, of which in total they know nothing solid about (last I recall, even prototypes of spaceflight/combat mechanics aren't yet done) but a bunch of "will be done" promises and concept art.
Saying "Chris Roberts will deliver on his vision" is exactly the same as saying "CCP will deliver on their vision". Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2361
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 19:53:00 -
[2900] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Well to their defense in all this, they did spoke of a vision. Again. They did mention going beyond the point of no return, players growing more independent and gaining more and more control.
In this vision fit the issues EVE is suffering from. Sov, screwed up structure mechanics, hell even PvE. People can invest over 20 million USD (I almost typed ISK there... wow, someone's suffering serious withdrawals.) into a project ran by someone who once failed to deliver on a massive scale, of which in total they know nothing solid about (last I recall, even prototypes of spaceflight/combat mechanics aren't yet done) but a bunch of "will be done" promises and concept art.
Saying "Chris Roberts will deliver on his vision" is exactly the same as saying "CCP will deliver on their vision".
Minus 10 years of Soon(TM) and one Incarna; Chris Roberts still haves a word to lose. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
225
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 20:08:00 -
[2901] - Quote
Shows how far you can joyride on your rep alone. The same idea (a useless room to walk around in) put in at a different time (It's a demo! vs. It's an actual feature) by different people (Nostalgia-is-back Chris Roberts vs. CCP who at the time already had their rep not exactly great, having neglected a lot of issues) almost sinks one and brings millions to the other.
That said, what we need to see is EVE in a year - with parts of the new Vision vs. released StarCitizen (it's coming next year, doesn't it? Bloody fast, that). See how actual, you know, content holds up to players. Sure there will be those who embrace the vision of Mr. Roberts - but there also will be munchkins. Like goons. Who will break it. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22197
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 20:17:00 -
[2902] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:That said, what we need to see is EVE in a year - with parts of the new Vision vs. released StarCitizen (it's coming next year, doesn't it? Bloody fast, that). See how actual, you know, content holds up to players. Sure there will be those who embrace the vision of Mr. Roberts - but there also will be munchkins. Like goons. Who will break it. SC will not be completed until 2015... in 18 months at the very least... but since you are pretty much uninformed about everything else concearning the game, we better stop talking about it and go back on topic, no? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
225
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 20:31:00 -
[2903] - Quote
Close enough to next year, still bloody fast too. There really isn't much to be informed about, I'm just surprised so many people threw money for the name and a few promises. It will very likely never happen the way people think it will.
It'll be released as Roberts's great vision, since there will be no publisher to tell him to hold his horses. His fans will righteously clobber anyone trying to oppose the Great Producer. In the end, it will wind up brilliant. Of course, for a while people will follow the great vision but then communities - such as the Goons (who won't skip the game, I think they're already forming up for the fun) - will deploy the munchkinism (and space communism while it's about goons). People will play to win and have little care for the great vision.
Plus, there's always the little bit called 'gameplay'. Things like the hangar/captain's quarters get old fast when you're meant to play a game for months or years...
It's actually nice that CCP has a playerbase capable of pulling off a Summer of Rage. Not many companies can be held in check by their own players. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
299
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 20:50:00 -
[2904] - Quote
When you're done smack talking Star Citizen and crying because even the Goons went over there, you can lay on the couch and tell me where did the bad Sony guys touch you. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
768
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 21:37:00 -
[2905] - Quote
Everyone said Star Trek Online would kill EVE, it didn't.
Star Citizens won't kill EVE either, the only thing that can kill EVE is CCP. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22197
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 21:55:00 -
[2906] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Everyone said Star Trek Online would kill EVE, it didn't.
Star Citizens won't kill EVE either, the only thing that can kill EVE is CCP. And they are on a good way...
Seriously though... there are still many dedicated EVE players that invested much into the game, and simply aren't interested into any other games. Those will not be swayed by Chris Roberts, David Braben or anybody else. Many of those that storm the forums and complain about CCP's direction right now, however, those are the ones that are most likely to leave... I know I will. I may not delete my account, but I will put it to rest, and that means: No more money from me for CCP.
Question is: Will said dedicated core players be enough to keep the game running? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
299
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 21:58:00 -
[2907] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote: Star Citizens won't kill EVE either, the only thing that can kill EVE is CCP.
I agree. But note, although there are some very upset people at SC and CRoberts here, nobody said that Star Citizen would kill EVE. I hope they live healthy together and for a long time.
Matter of fact next year I'm gonna nominate Minmatar Citizen 20120210 for CSM along with my usual candidates Gorski Car and PsychoBitch. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
225
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:19:00 -
[2908] - Quote
So essentially, we should stop being concerned that SC will flop because Chris Roberts is Chris Roberts and he has a lot of money.
I'll give it to him, he got a lot of money out of something that doesn't really even exist. Wasn't STO touted as the previous EVE-killer actually?
Still, alright, back on the track before we get hammered down. It would be interesting to see what CCP says about it all but it's probably all controlled by men in suits responsible for company PR. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
299
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:22:00 -
[2909] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:So essentially, we should stop being concerned that SC will flop because Chris Roberts is Chris Roberts and he has a lot of money.
Nope, you got it wrong again. We should stop being concerned that SC will flop because Chris Roberts is not Hillmar Petersun or David Reid and CIG and the other SC development teams are not CCP. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
915
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:29:00 -
[2910] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Everyone said Star Trek Online would kill EVE, it didn't.
Star Citizens won't kill EVE either, the only thing that can kill EVE is CCP.
I can't stand Star Trek online.
It is a useful example on how not to do avatar gameplay. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22197
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:39:00 -
[2911] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Trii Seo wrote:So essentially, we should stop being concerned that SC will flop because Chris Roberts is Chris Roberts and he has a lot of money. Nope, you got it wrong again. We should stop being concerned that SC will flop because Chris Roberts is not Hillmar Petersun or David Reid and CIG and the other SC development teams are not CCP. No, "she" is just trolling now... *shrugs* "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
301
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 23:25:00 -
[2912] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: Still, alright, back on the track before we get hammered down. It would be interesting to see what CCP says about it all but it's probably all controlled by men in suits responsible for company PR.
I agree such a shame, women in suits are way more sexy. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2304
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 08:08:00 -
[2913] - Quote
You can't seriously vote for PsychoBitch. Sure, they want WiS content and I agree, but they are also a foaming at the mouth ret*rd. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
cpt Kelmon
Khanid Intelligence Office
18
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 09:37:00 -
[2914] - Quote
I see EvE online like an long term investment, more it grows better it is. Space, warfare, political, criminal, financial gameplay and more to come, avatar , dust514, Valkyrie etc... It's the only game i'm still paying for 6 years now Keep patience i'm sure we will have some nice thing to come about avatars " To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders." - Lao Tzu |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2364
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 10:14:00 -
[2915] - Quote
cpt Kelmon wrote:I see EvE online like an long term investment, more it grows better it is. Space, warfare, political, criminal, financial gameplay and more to come, avatar , dust514, Valkyrie etc... It's the only game i'm still paying for 6 years now Keep patience i'm sure we will have some nice thing to come about avatars
Here's the thing more ressembling a oficial answer:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3643709#post3643709
(bolds are mine)
CCP Seagull wrote:Thanks for the email!
CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)
/Seagull
So, concerning avatar gameplay:
- it's not on the roadmap - would not be in EVE, rather in some another game - EVE is a spaceships game - for further clarification on how TARFU you are, ask Hilmar
You may wonder why we do keep insisting, then. The answer is pretty obvious: we're serious about this lost cause, and currently there is no reason to give up.
If EVE was dead, well, that would be a reason to give up. But as long as people can change their minds, persons can be hired or fired, companies can change their ways and stakeholders can ask for results, there is nothing lost to keep beating the undead horse.
49,1% of CCP is owned by people who are in it for the money. Maybe they could start wondering why there is money in Star Citizen and not in the Hallelujah Plan.
And all in all... it's just a video game. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Jara Blackwind
Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 10:36:00 -
[2916] - Quote
Quote:CCP Seagull wrote: Thanks for the email!
CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)
/Seagull
Awesome, thank you. That removes a lot of questions and very much closes the topic.
Good luck, Spreadsheet Somalia. I'll pew pew on the RvB alt until the sub ends. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22199
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 11:27:00 -
[2917] - Quote
TL:DR - CCP is inapt and/or short sighted... take your pick.
Nah, that's not fair... the game had it's fun moments. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Dominique Vasilkovsky
BFG Tech
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 12:06:00 -
[2918] - Quote
CCP Seagull wrote:Thanks for the email!
CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)
/Seagull I guess the 1Hz server tick is what is causing the biggest headache for the avatar gameplay. To move it externally might be the best way to get around it. I can totally see a re-use of a future WoD engine that is well integrated with EVE using CREST. Unless you are docked you can't activate the character in "new avatar game".
Ah well, I will remain subbed for another 5 years so we will see how things look like then. From Russia with love. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2366
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 12:17:00 -
[2919] - Quote
Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:CCP Seagull wrote:Thanks for the email!
CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)
/Seagull I guess the 1Hz server tick is what is causing the biggest headache for the avatar gameplay. To move it externally might be the best way to get around it. I can totally see a re-use of a future WoD engine that is well integrated with EVE using CREST. Unless you are docked you can't activate the character in "new avatar game". Ah well, I will remain subbed for another 5 years so we will see how things look like then.
Stations already are instanced outside of the "space" server. This is why it takes time to dock and undock as assets are transfered and resynchronized. As long as the station side doesn't interacts with the space side, the stations can do whatever they please (databases are ticked at 1 hz nonetheless, independently of where the asset is located).
WiS could even be twitch based as long as the interactions to the Sol mainframe were at 1 hz -that's what DUST does. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2305
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 13:07:00 -
[2920] - Quote
CCP Seagull wrote:Thanks for the email!
CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)
/Seagull
At least, from an optimistic standpoint, we can assume this is Seagull's personal view of how Avatar based game-play will progress in the distant future. We know it doesn't reflect others opinion further down in the company. It's just whether her superiors think the same or not that is worrying.
I don't imagine Seagull will last long in her current position anyway. Call it a hunch. So far, she has been in charge for the production of what I think are the two worst expansions Eve has seen. Odyssey, and Rubicon. Thankfully I have found a reason not to unsub, because Rubicon certainly isn't going to provide one. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2370
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 18:00:00 -
[2921] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:CCP Seagull wrote:Thanks for the email!
CCP has always been excited about avatars in the EVE Universe, but it is currently not on the roadmap. And when we do put it on the roadmap, it is unlikely to go directly into EVE Online as you know it now, for a number of technical and practical reasons. But we now of course have the "EVE Universe" that can host more than one game - so what you want to look for is game announcements in the future rather than full avatar gameplay crammed into EVE Online the spaceship game - and CCP Hellmar is the guy to poke about it! :)
/Seagull At least, from an optimistic standpoint, we can assume this is Seagull's personal view of how Avatar based game-play will progress in the distant future. We know it doesn't reflect others opinion further down in the company. It's just whether her superiors think the same or not that is worrying. I don't imagine Seagull will last long in her current position anyway. Call it a hunch. So far, she has been in charge for the production of what I think are the two worst expansions Eve has seen. Odyssey, and Rubicon. Thankfully I have found a reason not to unsub, because Rubicon certainly isn't going to provide one.
Huh... not. CCP Seagull is Senior Producer and she's in charge to implement from a production standpoint the guidelines provided by the Executive Producer.
Of course, as long as there is not a Executive Producer, she's pretty much working on her own, with an oversize production plan which, by not having a EP, doubles as a development plan.
So, making a simile, in a ordinary company, Hilmar says: "we want a Public building in EVE". The EP says "Ok, we can provide a Public Library with this parameters". Then CCP Seagull says "we have this blueprints and this people, let's do it".
Currently at CCP, CCP Seagull has produced the blueprints for "Project Hallelujah" and Hilmar has OK'ed it without an EP deciding they really want or need or can make it, and so any EP they may hire will have to carry it on for whatever other projects he figures. Prior to that, they took some scrap papers which the former EP had left on his table and released Odyssey after the CSM 7 was horrified to learn what were their actual plans for it (the actual production plan for Odyssey was determined in february on the base of whatever could be finished by the release date, and that showed, obviously). The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
308
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 19:41:00 -
[2922] - Quote
Halloween is here! I too have embodied the spirit! The world swirls around me as the Citizen's voices grow lowder!!!"
Just logged in to my account on RSI Store and bought the "Name A Newly Discovered Star System" pack for $5000 USD. Roberts emailed me and told me there was none left but I gave him the money anyway. Then bought a "Shut Up And Take My Money" pack on top for another $5 USD.
Want to show big publishers youGÇÖre voting with your credits? Pick up this special spacecraft skin honoring the RSI crowdfunding campaign! |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3036
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 19:51:00 -
[2923] - Quote
Voting with your credits? If that isn't a direct slap to CCP I don't know what is.
brb popcorn
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1066
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 19:57:00 -
[2924] - Quote
Ha ha ha ha ha ha this is amayzing . Thank you for making me laugh until I cried The Tears Must Flow |
Frying Doom
2969
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 19:58:00 -
[2925] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Voting with your credits? If that isn't a direct slap to CCP I don't know what is.
brb popcorn You should feel sorry for Star Citizen and donate.
Poor people have only managed to raise $25,614,376 18 months before the game comes out.
So put down that popcorn and give to a worthy cause Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3037
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 20:00:00 -
[2926] - Quote
Naw, pass. I'm not an early adopter. I'll see if it soars or flops. I only invest if I get money back.
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Frying Doom
2969
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 20:03:00 -
[2927] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Naw, pass. I'm not an early adopter. I'll see if it soars or flops. I only invest if I get money back. You and a hell of a lot of other people.
That is one of the scariest bits of SC, if it flops a lot of people will be disappointed.
If it works it will have millions of people playing it. Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
812
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 20:03:00 -
[2928] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote: I guess the 1Hz server tick is what is causing the biggest headache for the avatar gameplay. To move it externally might be the best way to get around it. I can totally see a re-use of a future WoD engine that is well integrated with EVE using CREST. Unless you are docked you can't activate the character in "new avatar game".
Ah well, I will remain subbed for another 5 years so we will see how things look like then.
Stations already are instanced outside of the "space" server. This is why it takes time to dock and undock as assets are transfered and resynchronized. As long as the station side doesn't interacts with the space side, the stations can do whatever they please (databases are ticked at 1 hz nonetheless, independently of where the asset is located). WiS could even be twitch based as long as the interactions to the Sol mainframe were at 1 hz -that's what DUST does.
So, we're waiting for WoD and for the brain-in-a-box, at the very least; if it's another game "in the EVE universe," we might end up getting stuck rolling new characters and playing a different game altogether. That's a possibility that CCP Unifex has also suggested, which tells me that it's not just CCP Seagull's opinion.
I suppose that another way to look at "A Future Vision" is that it depicts three games: the EvE ship combat outside, the DUST514 combat planetside, and the intrigues of the people who we've assumed were capsuleers in the station. That would make avatar gameplay an interaction point between EvE and DUST, just not the way we hoped. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22201
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 20:24:00 -
[2929] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:I suppose that another way to look at "A Future Vision" is that it depicts three games: the EvE ship combat outside, the DUST514 combat planetside, and the intrigues of the people who we've assumed were capsuleers in the station. That would make avatar gameplay an interaction point between EvE and DUST, just not the way we hoped. ...and ideally all of them are on different systems, and generate their own form of revenue, be it subscriptions or chash shop. No, thanks, I don't see that happening for me. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
812
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 20:50:00 -
[2930] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:I suppose that another way to look at "A Future Vision" is that it depicts three games: the EvE ship combat outside, the DUST514 combat planetside, and the intrigues of the people who we've assumed were capsuleers in the station. That would make avatar gameplay an interaction point between EvE and DUST, just not the way we hoped. ...and ideally all of them are on different systems, and generate their own form of revenue, be it subscriptions or chash shop. No, thanks, I don't see that happening for me.
If CCP call it "Station Games," I might try it just because the name is so awesome.
Otherwise, meh. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
675
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 00:14:00 -
[2931] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote: So, we're waiting for WoD and for the brain-in-a-box, at the very least; if it's another game "in the EVE universe," we might end up getting stuck rolling new characters and playing a different game altogether.
WOD already announced time ago they was going to drop the Carbon engine and go for an indipendent one. Beside, are years they have WOD and still nobody have seen not a demo, not a generic design idea but not even a concept art. Basically never started, and even if they start to devlop it the average time for a MMORPG is 4-5 years.
"EVE Universe" is simply what they was already doing, the megalomaniac project that caused the summer rage: the idea to be able to deliver and support several game titles, not merged with EVE. Nothing changed, they only rearranged it, fired some developers and gave some pubblic relation cookies to the morons shooting at a statue.
And continued doing what they were already doing.
|
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
508
|
Posted - 2013.11.01 00:27:00 -
[2932] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.
Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only. ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2387
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 13:48:00 -
[2933] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote: So, we're waiting for WoD and for the brain-in-a-box, at the very least; if it's another game "in the EVE universe," we might end up getting stuck rolling new characters and playing a different game altogether.
WOD already announced time ago they was going to drop the Carbon engine and go for an indipendent one. Beside, are years they have WOD and still nobody have seen not a demo, not a generic design idea but not even a concept art. Basically never started, and even if they start to devlop it the average time for a MMORPG is 4-5 years. "EVE Universe" is simply what they was already doing, the megalomaniac project that caused the summer rage: the idea to be able to deliver and support several game titles, not merged with EVE. Nothing changed, they only rearranged it, fired some developers and gave some pubblic relation cookies to the morons shooting at a statue. And continued doing what they were already doing.
Huh... not. Back in november 2011, there was a rumour, later confirmed, that WoD development was to detach their version of Carbon from the one used on EVE, effectively meaning that WoD's Carbon engine is no longer compatible with EVE's. Work on WoD is continuing and most of 2013 has been spent in content design; the Atlanta office has been hiring many content creators and so probably in 2014 WoD will start being beefed, so maybe in Fanfest 2014 CCP can show something really ingame.
Personally, I am still interested in WoD and its "cafe" side, but I am not too keen on the horror genre and obviously a space faring game with avatar content is more appealing to me than WoD. Specially because I never played a SF themed, avatar based MMO.
It's pity CCP won't oblige, as I've got some really nice characters in EVE. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 13:58:00 -
[2934] - Quote
spaceships and zombies? what cant work? all it needs now is a good engine for dust and some jetpacks.
edit am i torolling or what |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 14:17:00 -
[2935] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote: So, we're waiting for WoD and for the brain-in-a-box, at the very least; if it's another game "in the EVE universe," we might end up getting stuck rolling new characters and playing a different game altogether.
WOD already announced time ago they was going to drop the Carbon engine and go for an indipendent one. Beside, are years they have WOD and still nobody have seen not a demo, not a generic design idea but not even a concept art. Basically never started, and even if they start to devlop it the average time for a MMORPG is 4-5 years. "EVE Universe" is simply what they was already doing, the megalomaniac project that caused the summer rage: the idea to be able to deliver and support several game titles, not merged with EVE. Nothing changed, they only rearranged it, fired some developers and gave some pubblic relation cookies to the morons shooting at a statue. And continued doing what they were already doing. Huh... not. Back in november 2011, there was a rumour, later confirmed, that WoD development was to detach their version of Carbon from the one used on EVE, effectively meaning that WoD's Carbon engine is no longer compatible with EVE's. Work on WoD is continuing and most of 2013 has been spent in content design; the Atlanta office has been hiring many content creators and so probably in 2014 WoD will start being beefed, so maybe in Fanfest 2014 CCP can show something really ingame. Personally, I am still interested in WoD and its "cafe" side, but I am not too keen on the horror genre and obviously a space faring game with avatar content is more appealing to me than WoD. Specially because I never played a SF themed, avatar based MMO. It's pity CCP won't oblige, as I've got some really nice characters in EVE.
have you looked into wod? the likness to wow i dont like much and never did. as a player im just saying. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
267
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 14:19:00 -
[2936] - Quote
If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.
We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2387
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 14:30:00 -
[2937] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.
We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up.
With Odyssey 1.2, they introduced a interesting small change: new characters are now randomly spawned either at the hangar view or the CQ, in order to test wether this haves an impact in player retention. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 14:32:00 -
[2938] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.
We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up.
they have 1 universe you think they will give that up?
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fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 14:35:00 -
[2939] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Teinyhr wrote:If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.
We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up. With Odyssey 1.2, they introduced a interesting small change: new characters are now randomly spawned either at the hangar view or the CQ, in order to test wether this haves an impact in player retention.
ask people and they will tell you. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
267
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 14:40:00 -
[2940] - Quote
fuer0n wrote: they have 1 universe you think they will give that up?
TBH sometimes it feels they give less than a **** about their precious baby of a game. Many players seem to be a lot more passionate about the game than the people who birthed it. |
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fuer0n
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 14:50:00 -
[2941] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:fuer0n wrote: they have 1 universe you think they will give that up?
TBH sometimes it feels they give less than a **** about their precious baby of a game. Many players seem to be a lot more passionate about the game than the people who birthed it.
this game a baby? lol spawn maybe never a baby.:)
edit i dont mean that in a good way or a bad way. |
Odelya d'Hanguest
ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES 24eme Legion Etrangere
184
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 15:02:00 -
[2942] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.
We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up. Agreed 100%.
Book of Prayers GÇö GalNet Profile GÇö Viva la Legion! GÇö Laudetur Khanid! |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
697
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 15:37:00 -
[2943] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.
Ever heard of WoD?
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
269
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 16:04:00 -
[2944] - Quote
Yes, but hopefully WoD will take place on a different universe than EVE. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2315
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 16:33:00 -
[2945] - Quote
Edit: Nevermind. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2388
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 17:18:00 -
[2946] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:fuer0n wrote: have you looked into wod? the likness to wow i dont like much and never did. as a player im just saying.
Yes, and you obviously haven't. It sounds like it's going to be significantly more hardcore than Eve. Eve is going to be more like WoW than WoD will be. At least if it doesn't become vaporware. Permadeath has been mentioned relatively frequently. Teinyhr wrote:Yes, but hopefully WoD will take place on a different universe than EVE. Of course it will take place in a different universe. It's going to take place in the World of Darkness franchise universe. Intellectual property rights and White Wolf (despite the merger) would prevent their lore getting destroyed at the least. Also, the World of Darkness franchise has a huge cult following, that CCP would be pissing off if they introduced "space stuff".
World of Darkness will be set in a contemporary world. There will be three massive cities with permanent night, and players will be able to become princes of each city. The princes will have, among others powers, that of permakilling a player, probably in case that the player breaks the masquerade (the rules by which vampires hide their existence from mortals).
But it all is pretty sketchy yet. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
271
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 17:53:00 -
[2947] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Of course it will take place in a different universe. It's going to take place in the World of Darkness franchise universe.
I know that, but :CCP: |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2315
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 17:54:00 -
[2948] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Arduemont wrote:Of course it will take place in a different universe. It's going to take place in the World of Darkness franchise universe. I know that, but :CCP:
True. And it will probably be released exclusive to one brand of washing machine. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
738
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 22:05:00 -
[2949] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:
I've played all the other World of Darkness franchise games, so I have a little insight into how it might work. The Prince, can call a Blood Hunt on people who have broken the Masquerade, which essentially allows all in the Camarilla free reign to legally kill that person. Which is what I assume would cause perma-death. The Camarilla isn't the only large vampire society in the World of Darkness though, so it begs the question "will it affect members of the Sabbat in the same way?"
Seems like it can make for some interesting and fun mechanics if done correctly. wumbo |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
519
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 15:38:00 -
[2950] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic.
The rules: 26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued. ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1595
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 15:51:00 -
[2951] - Quote
Yeah, I still don't understand why they don't just make wow-esque avatars and some station environments, war-rooms, etc.
Just because you attempted to re-invent the wheel with avatars and failed doesn't mean you need to scrap the basic concept that was perfectly sound. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
493
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 23:54:00 -
[2952] - Quote
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:Teinyhr wrote:If they really try to someday push avatar gameplay as a separate game to EVE, then that is the day I quit this game for good. The mere thought alone is nothing short of moronic.
We have avatars in the game, they should be utilized in the game itself. At this point I don't really care if they rebuild the whole WiS part of the game from basic code up, as long as they just do it sometime (preferably sooner than later - not 2020) and don't **** it up i.e. make it able to render multiple avatars and large areas without computers blowing up. Agreed 100%.
This.
Avatar game play has to be integrated within the eve client if it is to be worthwhile. Everybody wants to see other people's ships flying past their station window, or entering and leaving the dock in real time. Hard to see how this can be done if all the games share is a chatbox. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
678
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 10:40:00 -
[2953] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Yeah, I still don't understand why they don't just make wow-esque avatars and some station environments, war-rooms, etc.
Just because you attempted to re-invent the wheel with avatars and failed doesn't mean you need to scrap the basic concept that was perfectly sound.
Avatar based gameplay is today a well defined standard so probably the most easy to improve, they could have used a third party engine for this part of WiS.
But I think the plan was to develop their own engine (Carbon), to use not only for WiS but also for WoD, Dust, and other titles in the future. CQ and Character creator were not part of EVE development but a demo for this engine.
Now, devloping a game engine is convenient on the long run and if you can resell it or use it on several products to write off the initial expenses; but requires a company to have major focus on it.
Is not like you can carry on 2-3 different MMORPG development on different platform AND an engine at the same time. I think not even Sony, EA or Blizzard can do that so easly.
I think at CCp are great guys and devlopers but I don't think as company they're really able to mantain more than one product line. Mostly if is a product like EVE. So if they're focusing on Dust they are not focusing on EVE (beside the daily mantainence, tweaks, bug fixes and such), if they focus on Valkirie or WoD they're not focusing on EVE... And so on.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
473
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 13:51:00 -
[2954] - Quote
Hey people, it's me again, ready to burst some bubbles.
CQ is a different environment that FIS, WIS would be like that CQ too. Two different environments, so no ships flying outside windows in real time, no seamless undocking in real time. The avatar environment was made from scratch, and was made separately from the FIS, so to avoid the 1 sec tick, and not to spoil Jita with perma TIDI hitting when 10 people will try to go to the space bathroom and flush the water.
So no, no seamless FIS and WIS, the boundary is technical in nature, and it's there not to break the environment we all know from the beginning.
Inside the WIS environment outside window you could just add some ships flying, like in the station docking bay. Or a planet, in the manner the orientation and kind of planet would work like a doubled part of the FIS in WIS. I see it as the only way to do that. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1134
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 14:42:00 -
[2955] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Hey people, it's me again, ready to burst some bubbles.
CQ is a different environment that FIS, WIS would be like that CQ too. Two different environments, so no ships flying outside windows in real time, no seamless undocking in real time. The avatar environment was made from scratch, and was made separately from the FIS, so to avoid the 1 sec tick, and not to spoil Jita with perma TIDI hitting when 10 people will try to go to the space bathroom and flush the water.
So no, no seamless FIS and WIS, the boundary is technical in nature, and it's there not to break the environment we all know from the beginning.
Inside the WIS environment outside window you could just add some ships flying, like in the station docking bay. Or a planet, in the manner the orientation and kind of planet would work like a doubled part of the FIS in WIS. I see it as the only way to do that.
Wack cam outside station in fis, stream through twitch, project on wall in wis, done. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
474
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 17:34:00 -
[2956] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote: Wack cam outside station in fis, stream through twitch, project on wall in wis, done.
But this is not a window, right? This will be a jita cam, not the actual FIS environment seen outside when walking in station interior. Streaming isn't build in the game as for now. I seriously doubt it will ever be. |
Jadiss
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
13
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 20:11:00 -
[2957] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote: Wack cam outside station in fis, stream through twitch, project on wall in wis, done.
But this is not a window, right? This will be a jita cam, not the actual FIS environment seen outside when walking in station interior. Streaming isn't build in the game as for now. I seriously doubt it will ever be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ7yEgVRYP8 |
Flamespar
Woof Club
917
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 00:29:00 -
[2958] - Quote
Twitch is going be integrated into EVE. Don't know I'f this means we will be able to watch broadcasts in game though. |
None ofthe Above
851
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 00:46:00 -
[2959] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Twitch is going be integrated into EVE. Don't know I'f this means we will be able to watch broadcasts in game though.
Twitch capture is going to be integrated into EVE. So you'll be able to stream from the EVE Client, but not to it. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
680
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 12:29:00 -
[2960] - Quote
WiS and FiS don't need to be syncronized in real time. And if there are windows then a texture matching the region/system background is enough. Eventually some fake ship flying like in the hangar view |
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None ofthe Above
851
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 17:32:00 -
[2961] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:WiS and FiS don't need to be syncronized in real time. And if there are windows then a texture matching the region/system background is enough. Eventually some fake ship flying like in the hangar view
I actually would love to be able to look out the window before undocking. Although perhaps that would be better done by being able to "borrow" a camera drone from the station. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
917
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 04:01:00 -
[2962] - Quote
Spotted this on the Rubicon website
New female clothing ?
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
917
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 04:20:00 -
[2963] - Quote
stupid double post |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
481
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 06:41:00 -
[2964] - Quote
Colour is new. The shape was available for them for some time: 1, 2, 3, look at the upper part. It was merged with something what we have currently on the server - this. Character design isn't something completely new either, they had this technology for years.
So I doubt it will be put in game, this look for me like a bad trolling attempt from CCP " look what we have hahahah, and you will not get it ".
|
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22210
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 07:33:00 -
[2965] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:So I doubt it will be put in game, this look for me like a bad trolling attempt from CCP " look what we have hahahah, and you will not get it ". Well, at least the avatars are good for commercials and promo material, no? |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2431
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 07:48:00 -
[2966] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Colour is new. The shape was available for them for some time: 1, 2, 3, look at the upper part. It was merged with something what we have currently on the server - this. Character design isn't something completely new either, they had this technology for years. So I doubt it will be put in game, this look for me like a bad trolling attempt from CCP " look what we have hahahah, and you will not get it ".
The shoulder piece was a "middle" element IIRC, whereas the body was a "top" piece, and they could be used separatedly. So the Rubicon ad shows the "middle" shoulder piece of the white "Dat Ass" set on top of a stock "top" shirt.
And what this means is that CCP marketing guys have no clue on what is in the game. We're talking about the guys who advertised DUST with a laser Raven...
CCP just abandoned the "actual ingame footage" line a few trailers ago and they're on their way to state "this trailer is an artistic rendering and actual ingame content may differ". Because nothing sells better reheated porridge than the videogame equivalent of a Big Mac advertisement... |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22210
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 08:08:00 -
[2967] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:CCP just abandoned the "actual ingame footage" line a few trailers ago and they're on their way to state "this trailer is an artistic rendering and actual ingame content may differ". Because nothing sells better reheated porridge than the videogame equivalent of a Big Mac advertisement... Yup... I mean, sure, then again, most companies these days do that... I just didn't expect CCP to do it. |
Anomaly One
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 17:13:00 -
[2968] - Quote
Never gonna give you up |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
775
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 17:25:00 -
[2969] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Colour is new. The shape was available for them for some time: 1, 2, 3, look at the upper part. It was merged with something what we have currently on the server - this. Character design isn't something completely new either, they had this technology for years. So I doubt it will be put in game, this look for me like a bad trolling attempt from CCP " look what we have hahahah, and you will not get it ". It wasn't merged with what we have, it was simply not released. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
500
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 18:05:00 -
[2970] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:CCP just abandoned the "actual ingame footage" line a few trailers ago and they're on their way to state "this trailer is an artistic rendering and actual ingame content may differ". Because nothing sells better reheated porridge than the videogame equivalent of a Big Mac advertisement... Yup... I mean, sure, then again, most companies these days do that... I just didn't expect CCP to do it.
I agree it does show a desperate lowering of the standards. In a sense CCP is admitting that their game isn't good enough to sell on it's merits. Very, very sad...
|
|
Gungnir Winder
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
131
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 21:29:00 -
[2971] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:CCP just abandoned the "actual ingame footage" line a few trailers ago and they're on their way to state "this trailer is an artistic rendering and actual ingame content may differ". Because nothing sells better reheated porridge than the videogame equivalent of a Big Mac advertisement... Yup... I mean, sure, then again, most companies these days do that... I just didn't expect CCP to do it. I agree it does show a desperate lowering of the standards. In a sense CCP is admitting that their game isn't good enough to sell on it's merits. Very, very sad...
I don't agree.
A trailer is something that gets you excited, it gives you a feeling of what the final product will be, it's not just an ad. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
501
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 23:49:00 -
[2972] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:CCP just abandoned the "actual ingame footage" line a few trailers ago and they're on their way to state "this trailer is an artistic rendering and actual ingame content may differ". Because nothing sells better reheated porridge than the videogame equivalent of a Big Mac advertisement... Yup... I mean, sure, then again, most companies these days do that... I just didn't expect CCP to do it. I agree it does show a desperate lowering of the standards. In a sense CCP is admitting that their game isn't good enough to sell on it's merits. Very, very sad... I don't agree. A trailer is something that gets you excited, it gives you a feeling of what the final product will be, it's not just an ad.
I aways hate those trailers that have small print at the bottom of the screen saying 'not game footage' I always think 'why are you lying to me, if the game was that good you'd show actual game footage' until recently CCP have never needed to lie because they had a grade A product that they were proud to show off to the world. So I reiterate it's a sad slipping of standards to resort to such shameless attempts at hype marketing. The hype should be about what happens in the game, awesome player driven events, true stories from the player community. Not pretty graphics that's unavailable to you or stuff you cant get in game. |
Karaburan
Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 00:31:00 -
[2973] - Quote
142 pages now, wow, clearly people care about this stuff. The idea of EVA is to me awesome and IMO the way to go on the investment that has already been made by CCP. Big bold changes are important. Eve is getting stale with all of these "fixes" that the bitter vets keep clamoring for. Yeah it's nice to have UI improvements and the like. Ship re-balancing is nice but they only keep a few of us interested for short periods of time. I am greatly relieved to hear there are still people thinking big things. If this game is going to continue to grow we need big things that provide a completely new experience. BZ CCP.
If you are going to "fix" big things like sovereignty and super-capitals, you need big solutions. like the intro to the game once said be bold pilot. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2434
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 07:54:00 -
[2974] - Quote
Gungnir Winder wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:CCP just abandoned the "actual ingame footage" line a few trailers ago and they're on their way to state "this trailer is an artistic rendering and actual ingame content may differ". Because nothing sells better reheated porridge than the videogame equivalent of a Big Mac advertisement... Yup... I mean, sure, then again, most companies these days do that... I just didn't expect CCP to do it. I agree it does show a desperate lowering of the standards. In a sense CCP is admitting that their game isn't good enough to sell on it's merits. Very, very sad... I don't agree. A trailer is something that gets you excited, it gives you a feeling of what the final product will be, it's not just an ad.
Well, for some reason, CCP used to sell the product, like this:
Player acting, player footage, player music. This is EVE Online!
And then they just started selling... something else.
Wadafak, modafaka? Are you on crack?
I dare you to find 10... no, 5 similarities between that trailer above and the actual game.
And it hasn't improved much. New players are now fed with a intro video displaying the pod as a cockpit... and i bet you that Rubicon trailer will have less than 50% actual ingame content to it, beauty shots of ships & stuff included. |
Zions Child
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
476
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 08:32:00 -
[2975] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Wadafak, modafaka? Are you on crack?I dare you to find 10... no, 5 similarities between that trailer above and the actual game. And it hasn't improved much. New players are now fed with a intro video displaying the pod as a cockpit... and i bet you that Rubicon trailer will have less than 50% actual ingame content to it, beauty shots of ships & stuff included.
That's a pretty ****** trailer (although I blame the voice acting and boring story more than anything else)
I miss the Dominion Trailer. The Empyrean Age trailer and teasers were some of the best. Super ominous. So good.
As for the trailer you linked - while I'm not certain, I'd argue that was all-ish ingame content (obviously some things were not in-game, and there were some funky camera angles, but that's to be expected). If you're talking about the prettiness and flashiness of the UI, and its integration into the 3D environment, that's been the overall push with EVE for years - it's only been in the past few that they've been able to get aggressive with it (after the redesign of the code regarding the Carbon initiative or whatever they called it). |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22210
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 09:28:00 -
[2976] - Quote
Zions Child wrote:It's not a very good trailer, but it marks no great departure from their previous efforts. For me it's more what the new trailers/FMVs imply then what they show... I mean, I'm madly in love with the Origins "trailer", but when you show it to somebody that never really heard of EVE, she has to think: "Wow, cool story, space ships and ground battles... what an awesome scifie game that must be!"
It's ok for companies to do that when a game isn't even out yet, well, not really "ok", but expected... but for a 10 year old game? |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2434
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 14:15:00 -
[2977] - Quote
Zions Child wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Wadafak, modafaka? Are you on crack?I dare you to find 10... no, 5 similarities between that trailer above and the actual game. And it hasn't improved much. New players are now fed with a intro video displaying the pod as a cockpit... and i bet you that Rubicon trailer will have less than 50% actual ingame content to it, beauty shots of ships & stuff included. That's a pretty ****** trailer (although I blame the voice acting and boring story more than anything else) I miss the Dominion Trailer. The Empyrean Age trailer and teasers were some of the best. Super ominous. So good. As for the trailer you linked - while I'm not certain, I'd argue that was all-ish ingame content (obviously some things were not in-game, and there were some funky camera angles, but that's to be expected). If you're talking about the prettiness and flashiness of the UI, and its integration into the 3D environment, that's been the overall push with EVE for years - it's only been in the past few that they've been able to get aggressive with it (after the redesign of the code regarding the Carbon initiative or whatever they called it). EDIT: If you want five things - The very opening scene is taken straight from the captain's quarters - gussied up a bit obviously, but they do that with all the story-driven trailers. The avatar of whomever it was is the same as one we'd create - his movements seem more realistic though that may be an effect of the camera angle. He's flying a scorpion variant which acts as a scorpion. It shows a POS, the new mining frigate, and an alliance outpost. The battle effects and such are all in fame effects (again, gussied up). It's not a very good trailer, but it marks no great departure from their previous efforts.
I was talking about something else than using EVE props and assets... albeit in 0:40, they use something that doesn't exists ingame.
And then there's the little issue on how the trailer is a blatant lie with null relation with the actual bounty system. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
759
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 14:31:00 -
[2978] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:I was talking about something else than using EVE props and assets... albeit in 0:40, they use something that doesn't exists ingame. And then there's the little issue on how the trailer is a blatant lie with null relation with the actual bounty system.
Or the fact that the Widow took out kill the Ventures despite not having a point |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
813
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 16:47:00 -
[2979] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And it hasn't improved much. New players are now fed with a intro video displaying the pod as a cockpit... and i bet you that Rubicon trailer will have less than 50% actual ingame content to it, beauty shots of ships & stuff included.
In the Features & Ideas thread introducing the plans to rename skills, CCP Ytterbium posted this update, which includes this little gem:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Starship Piloting instead of Starship Command: For this particular point we wanted to distinguish the skill and the group so they do not overlap - it also ties on other plans we have on the future. However, we hear you, agreed it sounds less appealing than the one we have currently - we'll discuss this point internally again.
Italics mine.
This could very well be relevant to avatar gameplay... |
Zions Child
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
477
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 17:47:00 -
[2980] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:I was talking about something else than using EVE props and assets... albeit in 0:40, they use something that doesn't exists ingame. And then there's the little issue on how the trailer is a blatant lie with null relation with the actual bounty system.
I was just using your request and being a semantic dickbag
But yeah, that video had nothing to do with EVE politics (and I don't really know enough about the new bounty system to say either way - it seems a lot less ******** than the old one). Like an alliance would give one single **** about some worthless miner in low-sec.
But again, they've done that plenty (read: almost every) time in the past with their trailers. They sell you a picturesque land of sci-fi and wait for you to get involved before you notice that it's all covered in spreadsheets. |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2434
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 20:18:00 -
[2981] - Quote
Zions Child wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:I was talking about something else than using EVE props and assets... albeit in 0:40, they use something that doesn't exists ingame. And then there's the little issue on how the trailer is a blatant lie with null relation with the actual bounty system. I was just using your request and being a semantic dickbag But yeah, that video had nothing to do with EVE politics (and I don't really know enough about the new bounty system to say either way - it seems a lot less ******** than the old one). Like an alliance would give one single **** about some worthless miner in low-sec. But again, they've done that plenty (read: almost every) time in the past with their trailers. They sell you a picturesque land of sci-fi and wait for you to get involved before you notice that it's all covered in spreadsheets.
Well, from the threads surfacing after the live event today, I guess we'll have to add "Tidi and lowsec gatecamps" to the game description... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
504
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 10:28:00 -
[2982] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Gungnir Winder wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:CCP just abandoned the "actual ingame footage" line a few trailers ago and they're on their way to state "this trailer is an artistic rendering and actual ingame content may differ". Because nothing sells better reheated porridge than the videogame equivalent of a Big Mac advertisement... Yup... I mean, sure, then again, most companies these days do that... I just didn't expect CCP to do it. I agree it does show a desperate lowering of the standards. In a sense CCP is admitting that their game isn't good enough to sell on it's merits. Very, very sad... I don't agree. A trailer is something that gets you excited, it gives you a feeling of what the final product will be, it's not just an ad. Well, for some reason, CCP used to sell the product, like this: Player acting, player footage, player music. This is EVE Online!And then they just started selling... something else. Wadafak, modafaka? Are you on crack?I dare you to find 10... no, 5 similarities between that trailer above and the actual game. And it hasn't improved much. New players are now fed with a intro video displaying the pod as a cockpit... and i bet you that Rubicon trailer will have less than 50% actual ingame content to it, beauty shots of ships & stuff included.
Yeah, that cockpit video annoyed me too, plus the attempt to change the skill name to' spaceship piloting' made me think that one day our avatars would sit in cockpits with sleeper implants and the pod would be ancient history whilst we all fly our ships with keyboard controls and an optional game controller. Yet more dumbing down of eve back story, the harsh gritty sci fi elements of eve and the most importantly the atmosphere of the game world. This crass marketing must be resisted at all costs. |
John Cant
Bio-Tech Research
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 12:39:00 -
[2983] - Quote
Looking at avatar gameplay and the integration into the whole "one eve universe" concept I've concerns over whether there will be direct integration of avatar gameplay or not. Not that I feel it won't be developed but looking at eve-Valkyrie, I can't see how this is meant to directly integrate with eve and is in effect a separate shard game from the eve universe we know and love.
If we do see wis in some version, will it be "based on" the eve universe or actually in it?
JC. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
487
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 12:48:00 -
[2984] - Quote
Actually not taking part in the event and being there (at least i was there), when I could walk in circles in CQ watching my ship bob in hangar, listening to the radio, I would have been less annoyed, and richer for 250M ISK. Is that something what gives WIS gameplay some credit? I think YES. |
John Cant
Bio-Tech Research
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 13:21:00 -
[2985] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The funny thing is,if CCP delivered WIS as promised ,they did not have to deliver WIS content in spades at all. Exactly... instead they dumped the project all together and deliver bits and pieces of other new content (deployable structures) that are equally inconsistent, and yes, useless... great plan there.
From what I've seen regarding SC, ccp had better get their act together if they have any plans of getting any form of avatar gameplay in place before they get trumped.
Seriously, what will be innovative about it if there is a game out there focused on both spaceships and avatars if they "deploy 2nd"?
I don't get the "wis will break eve" mentality of the diehard fis afficionados, there's plenty of space for all sorts of content and activities.
I am torn between two camps as to what "avatar gameplay will be needed for" as I agree that all key activities should be performable using the current UI so avatars will not gain an advantage over those who weld themselves into their pods but also there must be a point to it that compliments and does not detract from current gameplay whilst ensuring there is a clear purpose to the use of avatars.
I'm all for additional bells and whistles also, give me a hangar I can properly walk around in, let me gaze upon the stacked crates of tritanium and sit atop a pile of all my goods, or invite someone in and grab a ppm out of a box and lob it at them.. ;).
JC. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2444
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 12:48:00 -
[2986] - Quote
John Cant wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:The funny thing is,if CCP delivered WIS as promised ,they did not have to deliver WIS content in spades at all. Exactly... instead they dumped the project all together and deliver bits and pieces of other new content (deployable structures) that are equally inconsistent, and yes, useless... great plan there. From what I've seen regarding SC, ccp had better get their act together if they have any plans of getting any form of avatar gameplay in place before they get trumped. Seriously, what will be innovative about it if there is a game out there focused on both spaceships and avatars if they "deploy 2nd"? I don't get the "wis will break eve" mentality of the diehard fis afficionados, there's plenty of space for all sorts of content and activities. I am torn between two camps as to what "avatar gameplay will be needed for" as I agree that all key activities should be performable using the current UI so avatars will not gain an advantage over those who weld themselves into their pods but also there must be a point to it that compliments and does not detract from current gameplay whilst ensuring there is a clear purpose to the use of avatars. I'm all for additional bells and whistles also, give me a hangar I can properly walk around in, let me gaze upon the stacked crates of tritanium and sit atop a pile of all my goods, or invite someone in and grab a ppm out of a box and lob it at them.. ;). JC.
Well, seeing the Rubicon hype, it's obvious that CCP hopes that we will want to go somewhere... but that somewhere it's not beyond the Door, but beyond the current space. Because when 70% of your players never go to lowsec, never go to nullsec and never go to wormholes, it's because they want to go somewhere else.
They will never learn. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22299
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 12:56:00 -
[2987] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:They will never learn. How could they? They are so out of touch with what their players want right now as they never where... almost in every aspect of the game, not only WiS/high sec/PVE content.
It's all about "how can players screw each other over most efficiently" with them now... as you said: A Viking's deffinition of fun.
...and (generally speaking) don't tell me it isn't so: All the frustrated (soon have been) players on other game forums (SC, Elite Dangerous), and even here on this very forums, are painting another picture. The comments go from: "EVE is going down the drain" to "it is already dead, if it wasn't for some diehards with too much money on their hands". |
Winters Chill
Kyash Corporation
121
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 13:05:00 -
[2988] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
You know nothing little noob.
Starring the mutant rat Splinter.
"many years ago, i came across 4 baby turtles..." |
Anomaly One
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 13:09:00 -
[2989] - Quote
I never believed a gaming company can be so out of touch with its playerbase but maybe this is what the playerbase wants, I always believed it's the companies that attract a certain type of gamers and I was right, for CCP to attract the villains and cutthroats and scammers they have to have the same disgusting personality irl (out of touch, ignore everything, lie and hide etc.) yes this whole mentality especially coming from the company is pretty annoying I can understand it in game but ffs you're devs, anyway star citizen is looking better everyday to me if it's not pay 2 win hopefully, can't wait to fly a 300i, going back to MUD games till then, where I can actually do whatever I want.
Instead of providing for the entire player base they provide for some and the rest are just cannon fodder. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22300
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 13:30:00 -
[2990] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:Instead of providing for the entire player base they provide for some and the rest are just cannon fodder. Subscription fee paying cannon fodder. Well, I for one, will not be for much longer... |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2445
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 14:34:00 -
[2991] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Anomaly One wrote:Instead of providing for the entire player base they provide for some and the rest are just cannon fodder. Subscription fee paying cannon fodder. Well, I for one, will not be for much longer...
That's the craziest part of it. They're screwing us with our money.
FAi, I just found out that they're going to "fleetissuize" the Orca. "Fleetissuize" refers to how the Hurricane was nerfed to oblivion, and two patches later was reborn as the Hurricane Fleet Issue -roughly the same old Cane, but four times more expensive.
Guess what? With Rubicon, the Orca warp speed has been nerfed to 2.0 AU/s vs 2.7 AU/s, but, hey! the new Ghost Sites will provide a low grade Ascendancy set with a 40%~ish bonus to warp speed, so you can get your old warp speed by buying the whole set of low grade Ascendancy implants!
Enjoy your fleetissuizement! And pay for it!
The nicest touch is that the new warp speeds are going to make much worse one of EVE's worst issues: long and boring travel times.
And that poses for good development. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
22300
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 15:02:00 -
[2992] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And that poses for good development. On the flip side, Interceptors will warp so quickly that they are well underway from one gate to the next before their cloak drops, and they are bubble immune, so everyone wanting to move around PLEX, skill books and other low volume good will fly one of those by default, since they are more or less fool/gank proof... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2445
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 15:15:00 -
[2993] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And that poses for good development. On the flip side, Interceptors will warp so quickly that they are well underway from one gate to the next before their cloak drops, and they are bubble immune, so everyone wanting to move around PLEX, skill books and other low volume good will fly one of those by default, since they are more or less fool/gank proof...
Well, I do my Jita runs in a cloaky ship, and certainly will be buying a muscle car... err... interceptor for when I just need to move from A to B.
Note: there is no reason to move PLEXes. You can buy them with a Jita alt, contract them to the target account, the contract can be accepted from anywhere, and the PLEX can be activated from anywhere. So. Don't. Never. Ever. Move. A. PLEX. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
509
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 17:38:00 -
[2994] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:I never believed a gaming company can be so out of touch with its playerbase but maybe this is what the playerbase wants, I always believed it's the companies that attract a certain type of gamers and I was right, for CCP to attract the villains and cutthroats and scammers they have to have the same disgusting personality irl (out of touch, ignore everything, lie and hide etc.) yes this whole mentality especially coming from the company is pretty annoying I can understand it in game but ffs you're devs, anyway star citizen is looking better everyday to me if it's not pay 2 win hopefully, can't wait to fly a 300i, going back to MUD games till then, where I can actually do whatever I want.
Instead of providing for the entire player base they provide for some and the rest are just cannon fodder.
That's because they choose to listen to the CSM like it's truly representative of the player base when we all know that high sec in particular has no CSM representation.
Before someone from the CSM gets in here to tell us that's because the high sec folk don't vote for anyone, I would further point out that the people of high sec are not apathetic when it comes to voting. The CSM is the body that is truly apathetic by failing to appeal to everyone. If they want high sec votes they should offer highsec something worthwhile, but given that the CSM candidacy are by and large sponsored by the large null sec alliances many of which have sworn to destroy high sec then I cant see this happening soon. I post this as a low/null sec player who thinks the system of CSM representation is flawed. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
509
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 17:43:00 -
[2995] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Anomaly One wrote:Instead of providing for the entire player base they provide for some and the rest are just cannon fodder. Subscription fee paying cannon fodder. Well, I for one, will not be for much longer... That's the craziest part of it. They're screwing us with our money. FAi, I just found out that they're going to "fleetissuize" the Orca. "Fleetissuize" refers to how the Hurricane was nerfed to oblivion, and two patches later was reborn as the Hurricane Fleet Issue -roughly the same old Cane, but four times more expensive. Guess what? With Rubicon, the Orca warp speed has been nerfed to 2.0 AU/s vs 2.7 AU/s, but, hey! the new Ghost Sites will provide a low grade Ascendancy set with a 40%~ish bonus to warp speed, so you can get your old warp speed by buying the whole set of low grade Ascendancy implants! Enjoy your fleetissuizement! And pay for it!The nicest touch is that the new warp speeds are going to make much worse one of EVE's worst issues: long and boring travel times. And that poses for good development.
Agreed this is the type of **** that Blizzard pulls by making people grind for new stuff by working hard to get the old stuff they already had beforte unlocking the new content lol. It's pretty crap development. Plus CCP has a habit of nerfing anything useful. The greatest enjoyment in this game has been lost for me over the last few years as practicially every ship I've loved has been nerfed into oblivion and now perform like 'Generic Frigate No3' or 'Generic Cruiser No1' etc. I did applaud CCP for their introduction of the new T1 industrials because they seemed to be waking up to the fact that no one wants ships to be the mathematic equal of each other, as a player base we crave individuality, be that in ships, how they perform and how we look in terms of avatar content. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2450
|
Posted - 2013.11.09 18:26:00 -
[2996] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:Anomaly One wrote:Instead of providing for the entire player base they provide for some and the rest are just cannon fodder. Subscription fee paying cannon fodder. Well, I for one, will not be for much longer... That's the craziest part of it. They're screwing us with our money. FAi, I just found out that they're going to "fleetissuize" the Orca. "Fleetissuize" refers to how the Hurricane was nerfed to oblivion, and two patches later was reborn as the Hurricane Fleet Issue -roughly the same old Cane, but four times more expensive. Guess what? With Rubicon, the Orca warp speed has been nerfed to 2.0 AU/s vs 2.7 AU/s, but, hey! the new Ghost Sites will provide a low grade Ascendancy set with a 40%~ish bonus to warp speed, so you can get your old warp speed by buying the whole set of low grade Ascendancy implants! Enjoy your fleetissuizement! And pay for it!The nicest touch is that the new warp speeds are going to make much worse one of EVE's worst issues: long and boring travel times. And that poses for good development. Agreed this is the type of **** that Blizzard pulls by making people grind for new stuff by working hard to get the old stuff they already had beforte unlocking the new content lol. It's pretty crap development. Plus CCP has a habit of nerfing anything useful. The greatest enjoyment in this game has been lost for me over the last few years as practicially every ship I've loved has been nerfed into oblivion and now perform like 'Generic Frigate No3' or 'Generic Cruiser No1' etc. I did applaud CCP for their introduction of the new T1 industrials because they seemed to be waking up to the fact that no one wants ships to be the mathematic equal of each other, as a player base we crave individuality, be that in ships, how they perform and how we look in terms of avatar content.
Well, if they have like 400+ different ship types, it makes no sense that any amount of them is sub par and nobody uses them. In that sense, for development economy, it makes sense to balance ships out... but the price of such balancing is banality.
I recall the amusing Red Moon Rising parody and how it stated that the Gallentean carrier was a force of nature and "carriers were nor well balanced". Well, that was years ago... but then.... Gallentean doctrine is to fly ships with devastating short range firepower (blasters) and force projection through drones. So if a ship class doctrine is to project force with drones, obviously the Gallentean carrier should be a pure beast. But then, if you develop carriers for each race, well, nobody is going to fly the other carriers instead of the Gallentean "win ship".
Yet actually, the other empires wouldn't bother with carriers. Caldari would develop a carrier-sized ship with both cruise and small missiles (anti-capital and anti-everything else). Amarran would do the same with capital lasers and smaller lasers. And Minmatarr would pack together artillery and small autocannons to counter the Gallentean Carrier.
So there would be four ship classes instead of four ships of a class which only makes sense to one of the races. That makes picking a race more harsh, more meaningful. Et cetera.
The opposite is "one class fits all". And then you balance them so nobody is left behind (unless you're a special child called Phoenix). And then it turns that you can fly anything the same... and makes no difference at all as long as you fly it properly.
And you end up with a game that haves 400+ ship types... and yet feels strangely characterless.
You don't have a ingame avatar worth that name. You play using disposable anonymous junk, which performs like the rest of irs class no matter the race. And the only point is blowing it and some other player's anonymous junk.
In terms of immersion and player attachment, EVE is one of the worst games ever made. And the plans are to never change that. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
509
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 00:44:00 -
[2997] - Quote
Not to go to far off topic, but I look at balancing differently. I take the view that each ship type should do one thing well making it a valid choice on undock for a specific play style. Whilst we have elements of this within the game its not enough as the balancing initiative has centred aroud ship stats, dps speed and tank making ships mathematical equal, which ironically removes choice from the game. |
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
272
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 04:49:00 -
[2998] - Quote
your video of presentation of 2nd decade collector box .. this is what we want . |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
703
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 06:19:00 -
[2999] - Quote
I love to see the new trailer. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
777
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 16:02:00 -
[3000] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Guess what? With Rubicon, the Orca warp speed has been nerfed to 2.0 AU/s vs 2.7 AU/s, but, hey! the new Ghost Sites will provide a low grade Ascendancy set with a 40%~ish bonus to warp speed, so you can get your old warp speed by buying the whole set of low grade Ascendancy implants!
Just get three Hyperspatial Velocity II rigs and it will go 3.91AU/s without implants. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
517
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 22:53:00 -
[3001] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Guess what? With Rubicon, the Orca warp speed has been nerfed to 2.0 AU/s vs 2.7 AU/s, but, hey! the new Ghost Sites will provide a low grade Ascendancy set with a 40%~ish bonus to warp speed, so you can get your old warp speed by buying the whole set of low grade Ascendancy implants!
Just get three Hyperspatial Velocity II rigs and it will go 3.91AU/s without implants.
It's still a nerf. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
918
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 06:50:00 -
[3002] - Quote
Amazing how a thread about a feature that 'no-one wants' is still alive over a year later.
Well done all. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2493
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:09:00 -
[3003] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Guess what? With Rubicon, the Orca warp speed has been nerfed to 2.0 AU/s vs 2.7 AU/s, but, hey! the new Ghost Sites will provide a low grade Ascendancy set with a 40%~ish bonus to warp speed, so you can get your old warp speed by buying the whole set of low grade Ascendancy implants!
Just get three Hyperspatial Velocity II rigs and it will go 3.91AU/s without implants.
Would you advise to do the same with Battleships? Turns out that their speed has been nerfed too.
PRO: solar systems look bigger now CON: one of the most awful chores in EVE (neverending travel times) just has become even more awful The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:28:00 -
[3004] - Quote
Good god, this thread got derailed beyond belief.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: PRO: solar systems look bigger now CON: one of the most awful chores in EVE (neverending travel times) just has become even more awful
Only if you travel in a big ship. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
783
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:06:00 -
[3005] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Guess what? With Rubicon, the Orca warp speed has been nerfed to 2.0 AU/s vs 2.7 AU/s, but, hey! the new Ghost Sites will provide a low grade Ascendancy set with a 40%~ish bonus to warp speed, so you can get your old warp speed by buying the whole set of low grade Ascendancy implants!
Just get three Hyperspatial Velocity II rigs and it will go 3.91AU/s without implants. Would you advise to do the same with Battleships? Turns out that their speed has been nerfed too. PRO: solar systems look bigger now CON: one of the most awful chores in EVE (neverending travel times) just has become even more awful I don't mind the new changes, after all my Viator is almost teleporting between the gates now and the Orca is pretty nimble as well on SiSi.
The battleships will still be faster for short warps and if you intend to go on a 200j roam in one of them you are doing it wrong.
To get the thread back on track agan, the new character selector screen is a missed oprotunity to show off the characters in their full 3D glory. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 17:16:00 -
[3006] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote: I don't mind the new changes, after all my Viator is almost teleporting between the gates now and the Orca is pretty nimble as well on SiSi.
The battleships will still be faster for short warps and if you intend to go on a 200j roam in one of them you are doing it wrong.
Exactly.
Mashie Saldana wrote: To get the thread back on track agan, the new character selector screen is a missed oprotunity to show off the characters in their full 3D glory.
Yep, this does look much cooler. 1.45(if it starts from the start for some reason)
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
277
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 18:08:00 -
[3007] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Amazing how a thread about a feature that 'no-one wants' is still alive over a year later.
Well done all.
Almost all WiS related threads are instantly catapulted in to tens of pages, and the "Rate the avatar above you" and "what would you say to the avatar above you" in OOPE are some of the longest threads still active in the forums, pagecounts combined around one and half thousand pages. And that's just the avatar threads on the first page. Overall there's probably thousands upon thousands of pages written about them on this forum from Features and ideas to GD to OOPE.
It's pretty amazing for a feature nobody supposedly wants. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2340
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 20:15:00 -
[3008] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote: To get the thread back on track agan, the new character selector screen is a missed oprotunity to show off the characters in their full 3D glory.
Yep, this does look much cooler. 1.45(if it starts from the start for some reason)
Also, notice the corporate quarters (Office) UI at 1.55 with the slay table stuff. Shame that never became anything, like most of CCP's promises. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 22:36:00 -
[3009] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote: To get the thread back on track agan, the new character selector screen is a missed oprotunity to show off the characters in their full 3D glory.
Yep, this does look much cooler. 1.45(if it starts from the start for some reason) Also, notice the corporate quarters (Office) UI at 1.55 with the slay table stuff. Shame that never became anything, like most of CCP's promises. All in due time.
CCP pr guy said in his eve vegas presentation that they are reworking Nex Store and we will see it sooner rather than later.
So probably we will see this table stuff too, when they will have an idea for WiS that is more than just a clothes shop and one empty room . |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
522
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 23:55:00 -
[3010] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Guess what? With Rubicon, the Orca warp speed has been nerfed to 2.0 AU/s vs 2.7 AU/s, but, hey! the new Ghost Sites will provide a low grade Ascendancy set with a 40%~ish bonus to warp speed, so you can get your old warp speed by buying the whole set of low grade Ascendancy implants!
Just get three Hyperspatial Velocity II rigs and it will go 3.91AU/s without implants. Would you advise to do the same with Battleships? Turns out that their speed has been nerfed too. PRO: solar systems look bigger now CON: one of the most awful chores in EVE (neverending travel times) just has become even more awful I don't mind the new changes, after all my Viator is almost teleporting between the gates now and the Orca is pretty nimble as well on SiSi. The battleships will still be faster for short warps and if you intend to go on a 200j roam in one of them you are doing it wrong. To get the thread back on track agan, the new character selector screen is a missed oprotunity to show off the characters in their full 3D glory.
Apparently they want people to get into the game quickly and were worried about the load that rendering full bodies would put on the server. It's a lame excuse if you ask me as once characters are created they can be cached on the local client, I think CCP are still burnt over the incarna nex store and pay to win shambles. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
919
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 03:07:00 -
[3011] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote: To get the thread back on track agan, the new character selector screen is a missed oprotunity to show off the characters in their full 3D glory.
Yep, this does look much cooler. 1.45(if it starts from the start for some reason) Also, notice the corporate quarters (Office) UI at 1.55 with the slay table stuff. Shame that never became anything, like most of CCP's promises.
Not quite true. PS3 players can play it in the Event Horizon lounge on the Playstation Home.
Why did they give it to console players rather than EVE players though is beyond me. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2503
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 07:40:00 -
[3012] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Arduemont wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote: To get the thread back on track agan, the new character selector screen is a missed oprotunity to show off the characters in their full 3D glory.
Yep, this does look much cooler. 1.45(if it starts from the start for some reason) Also, notice the corporate quarters (Office) UI at 1.55 with the slay table stuff. Shame that never became anything, like most of CCP's promises. Not quite true. PS3 players can play it in the Event Horizon lounge on the Playstation Home. Why did they give it to console players rather than EVE players though is beyond me.
Those guys eat ammonia-soaked rotten shark. Making sense it's not exactly a hobby in iceland. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2342
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 08:31:00 -
[3013] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:
Not quite true. PS3 players can play it in the Event Horizon lounge on the Playstation Home.
Why did they give it to console players rather than EVE players though is beyond me.
They don't have the UI and the area itself was probably made with the Playstation Home specific engine (whatever they use). Playstation would have already had the Network resources etc set up in advanced. I don't think that would have been a huge deal, except it is still a kick in the face for those of us who didn't get it in Eve. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 13:23:00 -
[3014] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Arduemont wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote: To get the thread back on track agan, the new character selector screen is a missed oprotunity to show off the characters in their full 3D glory.
Yep, this does look much cooler. 1.45(if it starts from the start for some reason) Also, notice the corporate quarters (Office) UI at 1.55 with the slay table stuff. Shame that never became anything, like most of CCP's promises. Not quite true. PS3 players can play it in the Event Horizon lounge on the Playstation Home. Why did they give it to console players rather than EVE players though is beyond me. Event Horizon lounge is made in PlayStation Home, so probably CCP didn't do much there apart from models and textures which they already have. And the only things you can do there is play this table stuff thingy which looks interesting and run around with your pink 'fro.
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
536
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 21:16:00 -
[3015] - Quote
Ho, ho, ho, it's santa with new trailer for winter.
Look at the avatar stuff they serve, together with scenic view of the city. Now that I call cinematic trailer. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
529
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 21:27:00 -
[3016] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Ho, ho, ho, it's santa with new trailer for winter. Look at the avatar stuff they serve, together with scenic view of the city. Now that I call cinematic trailer.
It's a wonderful trailer, but a bit of a cheat as you'll never see ships and avatars move like that in the game client which as per my earlier posts on the subject is highly misleading. It also looks like they are trying to appeal to the starwars fans out there with that flight down the station-canyon etc.
I don't know if you all feel the same but this has got EA stamped all over it. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2512
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 21:31:00 -
[3017] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Ho, ho, ho, it's santa with new trailer for winter. Look at the avatar stuff they serve, together with scenic view of the city. Now that I call cinematic trailer.
For fu's sake, they're displaying PODs as glorified cockpits again... There go 10 years of lore, it turns that a neural interface it's too hard to depict on film so let's just scrap everything we used to say, bo-hoo.
By the way, guess who released a launch trailer too? One with actual ingame scenes and content? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
335
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 21:33:00 -
[3018] - Quote
It's a case where what they're selling and what we're getting are two completely different things. CCP markets avatar content so heavily, but won't actually give us anything there. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
335
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 21:35:00 -
[3019] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:For fu's sake, they're displaying PODs as glorified cockpits again... There go 10 years of lore, it turns that a neural interface it's too hard to depict on film so let's just scrap everything we used to say, bo-hoo.
My assumption is this: Capsules were a great way to justify the UI of EVE being as "real" as possible. It fit the lore, and the UI was justified. However, if CCP ever gets off their rear, and evolves this game, the lore will evolve with it. While the capsuleer implants of the current day require pods, eventually, they may figure out how to upgrade capsuleers to the implants that mercenaries have in DUST. Allowing them to leave the capsule, and still, conceivably, be neurally linked to the ship, and able to transfer at the moment of death. This simple evolution of the lore will allow them to move to avatar-based gameplay as needed. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
529
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 21:38:00 -
[3020] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Ho, ho, ho, it's santa with new trailer for winter. Look at the avatar stuff they serve, together with scenic view of the city. Now that I call cinematic trailer. For fu's sake, they're displaying PODs as glorified cockpits again... There go 10 years of lore, it turns that a neural interface it's too hard to depict on film so let's just scrap everything we used to say, bo-hoo. By the way, guess who released a launch trailer too? One with actual ingame scenes and content?
As I implied earlier on, the new guy from EA has started work with CCP. Trailers like this with the glorified cockpit view anger me because it proves that CCP are running scared with X-rebirth being launched soon, they even brought the expansion lauch date forward to coincide with it.
I wouldn't normally do this, but I think I will buy X-rebirth out of spite on the 19th and cancel my sub for a couple of months the same day lol! Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Darth Kilth
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
146
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 22:39:00 -
[3021] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Ho, ho, ho, it's santa with new trailer for winter. Look at the avatar stuff they serve, together with scenic view of the city. Now that I call cinematic trailer. For fu's sake, they're displaying PODs as glorified cockpits again... There go 10 years of lore, it turns that a neural interface it's too hard to depict on film so let's just scrap everything we used to say, bo-hoo. By the way, guess who released a launch trailer too? One with actual ingame scenes and content? As I implied earlier on, the new guy from EA has started work with CCP. Trailers like this with the glorified cockpit view anger me because it proves that CCP are running scared with X-rebirth being launched soon, they even brought the expansion lauch date forward to coincide with it. I wouldn't normally do this, but I think I will buy X-rebirth out of spite on the 19th and cancel my sub for a couple of months the same day lol! I always assumed the entire glorified cockpit thing was just a mental representation, that they are probably in their pod but that this is how they mentally 'see' themselves while plugged in.
Then again, maybe I just have to much imagination. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
529
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 22:45:00 -
[3022] - Quote
Darth Kilth wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Ho, ho, ho, it's santa with new trailer for winter. Look at the avatar stuff they serve, together with scenic view of the city. Now that I call cinematic trailer. For fu's sake, they're displaying PODs as glorified cockpits again... There go 10 years of lore, it turns that a neural interface it's too hard to depict on film so let's just scrap everything we used to say, bo-hoo. By the way, guess who released a launch trailer too? One with actual ingame scenes and content? As I implied earlier on, the new guy from EA has started work with CCP. Trailers like this with the glorified cockpit view anger me because it proves that CCP are running scared with X-rebirth being launched soon, they even brought the expansion lauch date forward to coincide with it. I wouldn't normally do this, but I think I will buy X-rebirth out of spite on the 19th and cancel my sub for a couple of months the same day lol! I always assumed the entire glorified cockpit thing was just a mental representation, that they are probably in their pod but that this is how they mentally 'see' themselves while plugged in. Then again, maybe I just have to much imagination.
The lore explains it differently, the original jovian pod with the rubber skull cap for the eyes was a total sensory experience as seen from the camera drone as per the jovian wet grave chronicle. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Darth Kilth
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
146
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 22:48:00 -
[3023] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Darth Kilth wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Ho, ho, ho, it's santa with new trailer for winter. Look at the avatar stuff they serve, together with scenic view of the city. Now that I call cinematic trailer. For fu's sake, they're displaying PODs as glorified cockpits again... There go 10 years of lore, it turns that a neural interface it's too hard to depict on film so let's just scrap everything we used to say, bo-hoo. By the way, guess who released a launch trailer too? One with actual ingame scenes and content? As I implied earlier on, the new guy from EA has started work with CCP. Trailers like this with the glorified cockpit view anger me because it proves that CCP are running scared with X-rebirth being launched soon, they even brought the expansion lauch date forward to coincide with it. I wouldn't normally do this, but I think I will buy X-rebirth out of spite on the 19th and cancel my sub for a couple of months the same day lol! I always assumed the entire glorified cockpit thing was just a mental representation, that they are probably in their pod but that this is how they mentally 'see' themselves while plugged in. Then again, maybe I just have to much imagination. The lore explains it differently, the original jovian pod with the rubber skull cap for the eyes was a total sensory experience as seen from the camera drone as per the jovian wet grave chronicle. That's what I get for not having read nor memorized lore articles, I assume things I shouldn't... My apologies.
Then again, that describes the original pods, but since I can't remember any lore articles that mention it changed at any point, who know... but again, haven't read nor memorized most of it. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
282
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 22:59:00 -
[3024] - Quote
The simple explanation is that being submerged in goo in a fetal position with tubes and electrical wiring jammed up your expansion slots just isn't trailer sexy, glorified cockpit is.
But have to agree it's stupid how much they push the avatars in the trailers and then say "nope, no avatar content for you in the foreseeable future." |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
335
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 23:02:00 -
[3025] - Quote
Maybe CCP's trying to attract enough players who like the idea of avatar content to be able to justify working on it? I don't know. All I do know, is that it's obvious the cinematics team likes avatar content. ;) |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2553
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 21:37:00 -
[3026] - Quote
If you thought that WiS maybe wasn't appealing to a large enough population, you should read this piece on who will actually enjoy the Hallelujah Plan...
http://www.vg247.com/2013/11/18/eve-rubicon-sets-up-ccps-greatest-mystery-yet-interview/
New implants, new modules, new materials, to build and use the stargates to BIG UBERSPECIAL NEW SPACE (BUNS), probably by Winter 2014 expansion.
That is, if you're an alliance large enough to afford it, and don't be disrupted by someone else. Preferably an alliance whose nickname starts with a G...
...and the rest of us, oh, we can just keep paying the bills so the lucky 5% enjoys 90% of everything that's to come for the next three years. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2420
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 22:02:00 -
[3027] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:If you thought that WiS maybe wasn't appealing to a large enough population, you should read this piece on who will actually enjoy the Hallelujah Plan... http://www.vg247.com/2013/11/18/eve-rubicon-sets-up-ccps-greatest-mystery-yet-interview/New implants, new modules, new materials, to build and use the stargates to BIG UBERSPECIAL NEW SPACE (BUNS), probably by Winter 2014 expansion. That is, if you're an alliance large enough to afford it, and don't be disrupted by someone else. Preferably an alliance whose nickname starts with a G... ...and the rest of us, oh, we can just keep paying the bills so the lucky 5% enjoys 90% of everything that's to come for the next three years.
Yea, I know. Any semblance of hope has already been killed, skinned, deboned and stamped flat as it is. It can't be any deader anyway. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
CERA Elitist
The Prometheus Society
6
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 02:18:00 -
[3028] - Quote
I hope we get more news on this soon. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
921
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 04:52:00 -
[3029] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:If you thought that WiS maybe wasn't appealing to a large enough population, you should read this piece on who will actually enjoy the Hallelujah Plan... http://www.vg247.com/2013/11/18/eve-rubicon-sets-up-ccps-greatest-mystery-yet-interview/New implants, new modules, new materials, to build and use the stargates to BIG UBERSPECIAL NEW SPACE (BUNS), probably by Winter 2014 expansion. That is, if you're an alliance large enough to afford it, and don't be disrupted by someone else. Preferably an alliance whose nickname starts with a G... ...and the rest of us, oh, we can just keep paying the bills so the lucky 5% enjoys 90% of everything that's to come for the next three years.
Yes. There doesn't seem much for the solo players and small corps in that vision. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2553
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 13:52:00 -
[3030] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:If you thought that WiS maybe wasn't appealing to a large enough population, you should read this piece on who will actually enjoy the Hallelujah Plan... http://www.vg247.com/2013/11/18/eve-rubicon-sets-up-ccps-greatest-mystery-yet-interview/ New implants, new modules, new materials, to build and use the stargates to BIG UBERSPECIAL NEW SPACE (BUNS), probably by Winter 2014 expansion. That is, if you're an alliance large enough to afford it, and don't be disrupted by someone else. Preferably an alliance whose nickname starts with a G... ...and the rest of us, oh, we can just keep paying the bills so the lucky 5% enjoys 90% of everything that's to come for the next three years. Yes. There doesn't seem much for the solo players and small corps in that vision.
Let alone for the hisec queers... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1750
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 14:18:00 -
[3031] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Yes. There doesn't seem much for the solo players and small corps in that vision.
Nor will there ever be.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
301
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 15:50:00 -
[3032] - Quote
Well there is, there always is. See, every coalition (that will likely partake in this effort) is composed out of alliances. Said alliances are composed out of corporations - from big mainline hundred/thousand member ones to small, specialistic units (or, in some cases, players are part of the same corporation but separate themselves into special groups.)
Each of those groups or corporations is composed out of individual players that mill about, and on a day-to-day basis do things solo or with their small group of friends. By simply existing in the giant ecosystem that is New Eden, they become a part of the vision whether they like it or not. Success of the big is based on the work of the small folk that carry out their jobs - EVE Vegas had a presentation from one of the GSOL guys talking about running the infrastructure of a null alliance. Good watch there, those guys are amazing.
Sooo Hallelujah plan I'll believe it when I see it but the opening phases of it look nice. Also, I'm curious what they have in store for the NEX revamp - it's kind of clear there's a lot of treading lightly around this area, since people are still burned but there's more and more people actually using this stuff: be it buying for your use, pocket change real money to ISK exchange via Aurum (smaller cost/value than PLEX) or just buying this stuff for ISK in a "hey, that look cool and costs less than a tenth of my next ship I'll welp. Maybe I'll get one and look like the captain of a playboy yacht with my obnoxiously white shirt" Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
566
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 17:47:00 -
[3033] - Quote
I read the interview as well, from the metagame perspective it looks like CCP are creating new space for the goons as once these stargates are built you will need special ship modifications and implants to access them, meaning that it wont be possible to just fly to a gate and enter it, which further means that you wont be able to claim or colonise the land beyond that gate.
Given that the big powerblocs can easily manage the resources needed to build these gates, the smaller corps and alliances are going to be out in the cold when it comes to entering the new frontier. Didn't the goons have a permanent chair on the CSM? Did he step down? I can't remember but there is nothing much in this for the small corps or solo players.
plus not even a passing mention of avatar content in the interview. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
922
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 02:25:00 -
[3034] - Quote
Managed to get down to the Pod to take a couple screenshots
https://twitter.com/Flamespar/status/402985316828459008/photo/1
I quite like the detail on the side of it
Feel free to follow me on twitter if you like #openthedoor I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2557
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 07:47:00 -
[3035] - Quote
Heh, the old floor collision detection bug is back! The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
569
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 17:02:00 -
[3036] - Quote
How did you do it? :) Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2557
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:06:00 -
[3037] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
There is a bug with the collision detection of some tiles and when it's active, 1 in a 100 times the character may fall through the floor. Sometimes lands outside of the CQ, sometimes on the lower floor.
The bug has been squatted a few times, only to resurface with each next expansion. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
853
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 16:43:00 -
[3038] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:There is a bug with the collision detection of some tiles and when it's active, 1 in a 100 times the character may fall through the floor. Sometimes lands outside of the CQ, sometimes on the lower floor. The bug has been squatted a few times, only to resurface with each next expansion. I enjoyed that bug back on SiSi. Fortunately I was in a gallente station so it was a spectacular fall lasting a few minutes. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2559
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 20:42:00 -
[3039] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:There is a bug with the collision detection of some tiles and when it's active, 1 in a 100 times the character may fall through the floor. Sometimes lands outside of the CQ, sometimes on the lower floor. The bug has been squatted a few times, only to resurface with each next expansion. I enjoyed that bug back on SiSi. Fortunately I was in a gallente station so it was a spectacular fall lasting a few minutes.
That was a test version of CCP's next feature, "skydiving in stations". The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2573
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 09:21:00 -
[3040] - Quote
Shameless bump to point a upcoming trend: have you noticed how CCP is increasingly giving away clothing stuff as rewards? The last instance it's the SOE shirt being designed as reward to the donors of the PLEX for Good campaign for the Philippines.
Maybe there's some fifth column working in favor of avatar content? Because the more clothing content they give, the less sense it makes that it can't be shown and shared with other players, and the greater the reward for the "non-meaningful" content of exhibiting your avatar(s).
And as I've stated a few times, grinding for a wardrobe is not something I would oppose... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
573
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 09:43:00 -
[3041] - Quote
Apparently there's lots of art assets left over from incarna that they never did anything with. That's the stuff they are giving away. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2574
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 10:22:00 -
[3042] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Apparently there's lots of art assets left over from incarna that they never did anything with. That's the stuff they are giving away.
Yes, there are many things left (even they were working on a racial blending thing), but the point is that hey're designing T-shirts even on the spot. Probably this means that there's one guy who's made the template to add decals on T-shirt textures, but nonetheless, CCP is giivng value to this stuff. "Donate, get virtual T-shirt" implies that avatar clothing is valuable -for vanity.
And vanity is meaningful in itself. It haves a standalone value without gameplay. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
573
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 10:28:00 -
[3043] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Apparently there's lots of art assets left over from incarna that they never did anything with. That's the stuff they are giving away. Yes, there are many things left (even they were working on a racial blending thing), but the point is that hey're designing T-shirts even on the spot. Probably this means that there's one guy who's made the template to add decals on T-shirt textures, but nonetheless, CCP is giivng value to this stuff. "Donate, get virtual T-shirt" implies that avatar clothing is valuable -for vanity. And vanity is meaningful in itself. It haves a standalone value without gameplay.
I have heard that future plans for avatar content centre around eva in radiation rich structures that only capsuleers can withstand in radiation hardened clones. I can't remember the source though. I wish ccp would confirm this as in a way it ties in with seagull's vision. We scan down structures and loot them in person through avatar gameplay. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
184
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 10:36:00 -
[3044] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
I have heard that future plans for avatar content centre around eva in radiation rich structures that only capsuleers can withstand in radiation hardened clones. I can't remember the source though. I wish ccp would confirm this as in a way it ties in with seagull's vision. We scan down structures and loot them in person through avatar gameplay.
I have seen that video, but I can't recall which site had it. The video itself showed interesting, if quite early stage exploration game for EVE. There was radiation, yeah, I think there were other environmental hazards too. Can't recall much more of it. I'd love to have those options for exploration, that is certain. Whether we get it or when we get it, that's the big question. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2449
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 10:43:00 -
[3045] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Apparently there's lots of art assets left over from incarna that they never did anything with.
More than 100 items of clothing unreleased. It was in the CSM minutes at the time. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Oberine Noriepa
1364
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 12:02:00 -
[3046] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I have heard that future plans for avatar content centre around eva in radiation rich structures that only capsuleers can withstand in radiation hardened clones. I can't remember the source though. I wish ccp would confirm this as in a way it ties in with seagull's vision. We scan down structures and loot them in person through avatar gameplay. Is this sarcasm? It's in the first post of this thread.
Arduemont wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Apparently there's lots of art assets left over from incarna that they never did anything with. More than 100 items of clothing unreleased. It was in the CSM minutes at the time. A majority of those unreleased items are just color variations of the pants and shirts already available. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2450
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 12:05:00 -
[3047] - Quote
Oberine Noriepa wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I have heard that future plans for avatar content centre around eva in radiation rich structures that only capsuleers can withstand in radiation hardened clones. I can't remember the source though. I wish ccp would confirm this as in a way it ties in with seagull's vision. We scan down structures and loot them in person through avatar gameplay. Is this sarcasm? It's in the first post of this thread.
Don't sound so surprised. That seems to happen a lot in this thread. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Oberine Noriepa
1364
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 13:24:00 -
[3048] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Don't sound so surprised. That seems to happen a lot in this thread. Your signature seems fairly on point here. |
Kuronaga
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 13:48:00 -
[3049] - Quote
Why does CCP want me to play five games so I can play one game? |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 15:33:00 -
[3050] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote: I have seen that video, but I can't recall which site had it. The video itself showed interesting, if quite early stage exploration game for EVE. There was radiation, yeah, I think there were other environmental hazards too. Can't recall much more of it. I'd love to have those options for exploration, that is certain. Whether we get it or when we get it, that's the big question.
Must be this demo/prototype that the presented during fanfest in Moscow. The fact that all they got was some placeholder stuff after all the talk about wis or incarna in general, and the fact that they use "avatar content" in their cinematics so heavily kinda rubs it in, doesn't it? "Neener, neener - you won't have it!" |
|
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 15:50:00 -
[3051] - Quote
Yup, that's the one. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
292
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:41:00 -
[3052] - Quote
From the Reddit IamA:
CCP RIse wrote:Basically, Incarna taught us two things as far as I can tell. 1. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay, and 2. Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time.
As a result, for the time being we are extremely focused on the in-space gameplay. We have years worth of work we can do in space but who knows, maybe someday we will get a chance to go back to it.
I guess that is the final nail in the coffin for me personally. It will never come, one CCP promise more never to be delivered. Well, at least it was fun to dream what it could've been. No you cant have my stuff, since I'm not quitting. Incarna never was a deal breaker for me, but I'm still sad to see it never mature. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2455
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:02:00 -
[3053] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:From the Reddit IamA:CCP RIse wrote:Basically, Incarna taught us two things as far as I can tell. 1. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay, and 2. Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time.
As a result, for the time being we are extremely focused on the in-space gameplay. We have years worth of work we can do in space but who knows, maybe someday we will get a chance to go back to it. I guess that is the final nail in the coffin for me personally. It will never come, one CCP promise more never to be delivered. Well, at least it was fun to dream what it could've been. No you cant have my stuff, since I'm not quitting. Incarna never was a deal breaker for me, but I'm still sad to see it never mature.
Pretty much how I feel about it. I love Eve, but it could have been so much more. Shame. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
721
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:43:00 -
[3054] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:CCP RIse wrote:Basically, Incarna taught us two things as far as I can tell. 1. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay, and 2. Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time.
As a result, for the time being we are extremely focused on the in-space gameplay. We have years worth of work we can do in space but who knows, maybe someday we will get a chance to go back to it.
he forgot to say that actuallly thei did developed a totally new type of gameplay - Dust - and already sacrificed to it years and years of resources subtracted from EVE and from WiS.
of course now they're drained, after delivering a milestone in the FPS scene like Dust! And having to get ready for the next 5 years fiasco of Valkyrie. |
Ezekiel Ironstone
FISE Squad
3
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:05:00 -
[3055] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Teinyhr wrote:CCP RIse wrote:Basically, Incarna taught us two things as far as I can tell. 1. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay, and 2. Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time.
As a result, for the time being we are extremely focused on the in-space gameplay. We have years worth of work we can do in space but who knows, maybe someday we will get a chance to go back to it. he forgot to say that actuallly thei did developed a totally new type of gameplay - Dust - and already sacrificed to it years and years of resources subtracted from EVE and from WiS. of course now they're drained, after delivering a milestone in the FPS scene like Dust! And having to get ready for the next 5 years fiasco of Valkyrie.
And vampires. Don't forget the vampires. |
Naomi Tichim
Lost Star Expeditions
41
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:28:00 -
[3056] - Quote
I like what I read in the OP. Until now, the most complicated feature that WIS would include was going to be barfights. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
187
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:51:00 -
[3057] - Quote
Ezekiel Ironstone wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote:Teinyhr wrote:CCP RIse wrote:Basically, Incarna taught us two things as far as I can tell. 1. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay, and 2. Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time.
As a result, for the time being we are extremely focused on the in-space gameplay. We have years worth of work we can do in space but who knows, maybe someday we will get a chance to go back to it. he forgot to say that actuallly thei did developed a totally new type of gameplay - Dust - and already sacrificed to it years and years of resources subtracted from EVE and from WiS. of course now they're drained, after delivering a milestone in the FPS scene like Dust! And having to get ready for the next 5 years fiasco of Valkyrie. And vampires. Don't forget the vampires. I don't think we'll see that one before 2025. Or ever. "The Texan turned out to be good-natured, generous and likeable. In three days no one could stand him." -Joseph Heller, Catch-22 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2581
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:53:00 -
[3058] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Teinyhr wrote:CCP RIse wrote:Basically, Incarna taught us two things as far as I can tell. 1. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay, and 2. Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time.
As a result, for the time being we are extremely focused on the in-space gameplay. We have years worth of work we can do in space but who knows, maybe someday we will get a chance to go back to it. he forgot to say that actuallly thei did developed a totally new type of gameplay - Dust - and already sacrificed to it years and years of resources subtracted from EVE and from WiS. of course now they're drained, after delivering a milestone in the FPS scene like Dust! And having to get ready for the next 5 years fiasco of Valkyrie.
Apparently everyone is allowed to get avatar content, except the guys paying it with their subscriptions.
Is that a deal breaker? Not exactly. EVE still is a great game. But it will never be the best. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
187
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:59:00 -
[3059] - Quote
It's not deal breaker me either, but it does affect EVE's ability to keep me when other interesting MMORPGs come out in the future. I am not going to predict one way or another so we'll see when we see. "The Texan turned out to be good-natured, generous and likeable. In three days no one could stand him." -Joseph Heller, Catch-22 |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2581
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:25:00 -
[3060] - Quote
After re-reading CCP Rise's words, I am feeling angry. Somehow I didn't realized first the actual meaning of this:
"Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time", he says.
Let me get it straight. It's very costly, but your company is working on TWO avatar-based games, one of them a walking dead on intensive care and the other still a couple years frorm release in the best case. And you are doing that "very costly avatar development" with our money, from which we get mostly re-stated spaceships...
The bloody hypocrites!!
What's this sh*t, CCP? Do we look THAT stupid to you? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Naomi Tichim
Lost Star Expeditions
41
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:19:00 -
[3061] - Quote
I think you're overestimating the impact that developing avatar technology will have on CCP's other projects.
First of all, it's a safe bet that a lot of the actual tech will be shared with WOD. So that will cut costs. Second, it sounds like they're aware of the costs, so they've limited themselves to what sounds like five guys playing around in Unity.
CCP is clearly thinking long-term. EVE Online's player base has been slowly growing for ten years. Part of that success has been the regular flow of new content to keep the game from getting stale. But CCP can take its time, because they can be confident that EVE will still be here five years from now. So they'll take their time. They'll do it right. And they'll keep making EVE Online the best MMO out there. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
457
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 00:25:00 -
[3062] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:From the Reddit IamA:CCP RIse wrote:Basically, Incarna taught us two things as far as I can tell. 1. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay, and 2. Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time.
As a result, for the time being we are extremely focused on the in-space gameplay. We have years worth of work we can do in space but who knows, maybe someday we will get a chance to go back to it. I guess that is the final nail in the coffin for me personally. It will never come, one CCP promise more never to be delivered. Well, at least it was fun to dream what it could've been. No you cant have my stuff, since I'm not quitting. Incarna never was a deal breaker for me, but I'm still sad to see it never mature.
I would just like to thank CCP Rise for continuing to honor CCP's promise to focus on real Eve content. It's good to know that after all the drama of Incarna that CCP learned their lessons and they actually care about not repeating past mistakes. Well done. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
781
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 01:13:00 -
[3063] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Apparently there's lots of art assets left over from incarna that they never did anything with. More than 100 items of clothing unreleased. It was in the CSM minutes at the time.
A lot of these items are still on SiSi are they not? just recolours of existing pieces though iirc. wumbo |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1369
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 01:40:00 -
[3064] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:"Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time", he says. Translation: you have to enjoy ships because they are cheap.
Naomi Tichim wrote:EVE Online's player base has been slowly growing for ten years. Correction: for 7 years. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
461
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 01:57:00 -
[3065] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Translation: you have to enjoy ships because they are cheap.
Better translation: you have to enjoy ships because Eve is a spaceship game.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
926
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 02:51:00 -
[3066] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Lipbite wrote:Translation: you have to enjoy ships because they are cheap. Better translation: you have to enjoy ships because Eve is a spaceship game.
Even better translation: CCP talks big. Delivers little.
Anyone else remember David Reid talking about how EVE was going to be the biggest gaming universe by the end of the year?
Meanwhile, star citizen reaches 33 million. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
463
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 03:08:00 -
[3067] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Rhes wrote:Lipbite wrote:Translation: you have to enjoy ships because they are cheap. Better translation: you have to enjoy ships because Eve is a spaceship game. Even better translation: CCP talks big. Delivers little. Anyone else remember David Reid talking about how EVE was going to be the biggest gaming universe by the end of the year? Meanwhile, star citizen reaches 33 million.
CCP promised to focus on real Eve content and they have stuck to it. If you don't want to play a spaceship game why are you still here?
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
926
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 03:32:00 -
[3068] - Quote
Because regardless of what comes out of your flappy word hole Rhes, players want avatar content. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 03:48:00 -
[3069] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:From the Reddit IamA:CCP RIse wrote:Basically, Incarna taught us two things as far as I can tell. 1. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay, and 2. Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time.
As a result, for the time being we are extremely focused on the in-space gameplay. We have years worth of work we can do in space but who knows, maybe someday we will get a chance to go back to it. I guess that is the final nail in the coffin for me personally. It will never come, one CCP promise more never to be delivered. Well, at least it was fun to dream what it could've been. No you cant have my stuff, since I'm not quitting. Incarna never was a deal breaker for me, but I'm still sad to see it never mature. I would actually worry if the same thing was posted by a Dev who's actually connected to Team Avatar. CCP Rise is part of ships rebalance team. In addition to that it seems that the devs in CCP aren't even on the same page so to speak.
As far as core Eve gameplay - spaceships and whatnot - maybe what they should've learned is not to give promises about expanding Eve and not doing anything in actuality, while doing all the false advertisements with game trailers. "This video doesn't display actual gameplay, but merely a vision" watermark is pretty much required.
It is one thing if an RTS had these trailers, but totally different for space MMO RPG. Which Rhes and other naysayers can all deny, but Eve really is. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
929
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 03:58:00 -
[3070] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:Teinyhr wrote:From the Reddit IamA:CCP RIse wrote:Basically, Incarna taught us two things as far as I can tell. 1. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay, and 2. Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time.
As a result, for the time being we are extremely focused on the in-space gameplay. We have years worth of work we can do in space but who knows, maybe someday we will get a chance to go back to it. I guess that is the final nail in the coffin for me personally. It will never come, one CCP promise more never to be delivered. Well, at least it was fun to dream what it could've been. No you cant have my stuff, since I'm not quitting. Incarna never was a deal breaker for me, but I'm still sad to see it never mature. I would actually worry if the same thing was posted by a Dev who's actually connected to Team Avatar. CCP Rise is part of ships rebalance team. In addition to that it seems that the devs in CCP aren't even on the same page so to speak. As far as core Eve gameplay - spaceships and whatnot - maybe what they should've learned is not to give promises about expanding Eve and not doing anything in actuality, while doing all the false advertisements with game trailers. "This video doesn't display actual gameplay, but merely a vision" watermark is pretty much required. It is one thing if an RTS had these trailers, but totally different for space MMO RPG. Which Rhes and other naysayers can all deny, but Eve really is.
To be honest, I'd take the word of the CCP executive over a developer. And they have said a number of times that they want to introduce meaningful avatar gameplay when resources permit. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
463
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 03:59:00 -
[3071] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Because regardless of what comes out of your flappy word hole Rhes, players want avatar content.
No, a tiny fraction of the playerbase wants avatar content. The rest of us recognize that Eve is spaceships.
There are countless games where you can play dress-up with your avatar and use dance emotes. Go play one of them and stop trying to trick CCP into ruining their spaceship game.
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
463
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:01:00 -
[3072] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:To be honest, I'd take the word of the CCP executive over a developer. And they have said a number of times that they want to introduce meaningful avatar gameplay when resources permit. I admire your hopeful optimism and am glad that you are so wrong.
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Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
1456
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:13:00 -
[3073] - Quote
Very dissapointed after reading CCP Rise's comments. Comments which seem to fly directly in the face of those made by other Devs over time and CCP itself who claim to aim for EVE to be "the ultimate sci-fi simulator".
To be that ultimate sci-fi sim you will require avatar based content, right? Otherwise it's just a spaceship sim. For the most immersive experience you require a game that has multiple facets.
So really, it seems that if CCP support Rise's comments then their entire game-philosophy and vision has now shifted dramatically.
And quietly too it seems.
If you limit yourself to one aspect of gameplay then you will never be the ultimate sci-fi simulator you hope to be. Merely a sci-fi genre spaceship simulator. Big difference really.
Incarna? Well I'm not the EVE-news knowledge buff that some of you are. But Incarna's avatar-content isn't what upset people and it's not what caused Jita riots. So why do people who're against WiS keep holding up Incarna as a symbol of the entire community's resentment of avatar-content? It's not, and to keep using it like so is just misleading. It was the overall hopes that were built up by CCP's exaggerated claims as to what to expect Incarna to be. It was the micro-transaction products AND it was the inherent flaws in the "spaceship game" that weren't addressed.
So why not "burn Jita" with every single update? Because every update there is still stuff that's not "fixed" within the spaceship game, right? Even last update we had new t-shirts for our avatars introduced. That's Dev time that could of been spent on your spaceship problems, right? Why you not burning Jita again?
I don't get it.
The answer lays somewhere between selfishness, short-sightedness, a sense of entitlement ("This is MY Eve!! My Eve is about spaceships not avatars!!") and hypocrisy amoung players who perhaps lack confidence in CPP's development, or lack faith in it's long term vision. But you see in one hand you have players who subscribe to ganking, scamming and other things that negatively effect other players' enjoyment of the part of EVE they immerse themselves in. And that's ok. But ... then on the other hand the same players will rage about avatar-content being introduced because it's not part of the game that they enjoy.
Hypocrisy much?
Tears over potential avatar content?
That guy you ganked who cried, you thought that was funny. That person who raged after they got scammed gave you a giggle. Well you're crying now due to avatar content and I think that's ****ing hilarious and blindingly hypocritical.
Why do I play EVE then if I'm pro-avatar content? Because I love the spaceship game. But ... not only that, it's because I see the potential for the game overall to be even better, even more immersive, with the introduction of avatar content. I'll play EVE with or without avatar content, but CCP has made me believe in the vision they've been standing behind for years - well until CCP Rise's comments it seems. I believe CCP has the skills, resources and knowledge to implement a kick-ass avatar experience within EVE, if they want to, and I hope that it will come one day.
We CAN have the best of both worlds. And if CCP get's it right it can come without costing other aspects of gameplay. Both sides of this argument should really pressure CCP to simply "get it right" when it's implemented, instead of fighting over whether or not it should be implemented at all.
Don't be scared Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) CEO Nighthawk Exploration | Just an innocent explorer passing through-á pâä OOPE Pinup Calender applications |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:16:00 -
[3074] - Quote
Rhes wrote:There are countless games where you can play dress-up with your avatar and use dance emotes. Go play one of them and stop trying to trick CCP into ruining their spaceship game.
Because that is only "meaningful avatar content," that you can imagine, right? How come you don't post that particular game name anymore, with that certain kind of RP contingent? You know, the ones that you included in every ship toast of yours in the thread that should only concern players wanting Avatar content, rather than those who have tunnel vision concerning the next decade of eve. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
463
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:17:00 -
[3075] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:Rhes wrote:There are countless games where you can play dress-up with your avatar and use dance emotes. Go play one of them and stop trying to trick CCP into ruining their spaceship game.
Because that is only "meaningful avatar content," that you can imagine, right? How come you don't post that particular game name anymore, with that certain kind of RP contingent? You know, the ones that you included in every ship toast of yours in the thread that should only concern players wanting Avatar content, rather than those who have tunnel vision concerning the next decade of eve. I'm going to need a Pubbie to English translate on this one. I have no idea what it is saying. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
1456
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:26:00 -
[3076] - Quote
I'm trying to understand your point of view Rhes.
Do you believe that if CCP spent time developing some avatar content that it will ruin your enjoyment of the spaceship side of the game?
But you enjoy the spaceship game right now, right?
That won't change, avatar content will simply be an added extra. Completely optional too no doubt.
So is it instead the concept alone that CCP might spend development time on something other than spaceships enough to ruin your game? Must CCP fully devote 100% of their development resources to spaceships, every single update, to keep your enjoyment in EVE satisfied?
I'm trying to find the angle where the introduction of avatar content will ruin your personal game, Rhes. I can't see how it would, unless you're already not having fun. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) CEO Nighthawk Exploration | Just an innocent explorer passing through-á pâä OOPE Pinup Calender applications |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
463
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:28:00 -
[3077] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:I'm trying to understand your point of veiw Rhes.
Do you believe that if CCP spent time developing some avatar content that it will ruin your enjoyment of the spaceship side of the game?
But you enjoy the spaceship game right now, right?
That won't change, avatar content will simply be an added extra. Completely optional too no doubt.
So is it instead the concept alone that CCP might spend development time on something other than spaceships enough to ruin your game? Must CCP fully devote 100% of their development resources to spaceships, every single update, to keep your enjoyment in EVE satisfied?
I'm trying to find the angle where the introduction of avatar content will ruin your personal game, Rhes. I can't see how it would, unless you're already not having fun.
Real Eve content was basically ignored for two years while Incarna was being developed. I don't want that to happen again.
I love Eve and enjoy it a lot but with that said there is a *ton* of work that needs to be done on spaceship content before we go back to worrying about space barbies. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Anomaly One
67
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:32:00 -
[3078] - Quote
this discussion has been dead but I guess you guys need something official, well I bring news!
From CCP rise AMA reddit
Q: "Walking in Stations! Eve has one of the best character creation systems in gaming, but we never use them for any form of interaction, what are the plans for avatars?"
A: " Basically, Incarna taught us two things as far as I can tell. 1. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay, and 2. Working on Avatar gameplay is very costly in terms of resources and time. As a result, for the time being we are extremely focused on the in-space gameplay. We have years worth of work we can do in space but who knows, maybe someday we will get a chance to go back to it."
so yea expect avatar content to come for WoD.. *~~*running my own mission and have some class bully run up and blow me up because they think its funny, then give the excuses that I was just firing fireworks at you*~~* |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:37:00 -
[3079] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:I'm trying to understand your point of view Rhes.
Do you believe that if CCP spent time developing some avatar content that it will ruin your enjoyment of the spaceship side of the game?
But you enjoy the spaceship game right now, right?
That won't change, avatar content will simply be an added extra. Completely optional too no doubt.
So is it instead the concept alone that CCP might spend development time on something other than spaceships enough to ruin your game? Must CCP fully devote 100% of their development resources to spaceships, every single update, to keep your enjoyment in EVE satisfied?
I'm trying to find the angle where the introduction of avatar content will ruin your personal game, Rhes. I can't see how it would, unless you're already not having fun. There's nothing to understand really. It's on the same level as certain players say highsec should be nerfed vs nullsec. I.E. the whole "risk vs reward" vs absolutely mind-numbing PvE content issue.
The same people will talk that eve is only about PvP, whereas majority of them have carebear alts anyway.
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Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
464
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:39:00 -
[3080] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:highsec should be nerfed vs nullsec. Agreed. But it has nothing to do with WiS.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
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Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
1456
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:46:00 -
[3081] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Real Eve content was basically ignored for two years while Incarna was being developed. I don't want that to happen again. Ok. But was it really "ignored"? You've played longer than me Rhes, but I seem to remember updates throughout that period which brought changes and updates to the spaceship game. There's a difference to it being ignored completely and simply not being focussed on as much as you'd personally like it to be.
With every expansion there's still problems not addressed. Why is that OK, but then suddenly not OK if that update somehow included some avatar-based changes?
Quote:I love Eve and enjoy it a lot but with that said there is a *ton* of work that needs to be done on spaceship content before we go back to worrying about space barbies. And that's a fair point. But it does bring rise to a question - So it's not the fact that avatar-content is being introduced that annoys you, but more-so the fact that you believe CCP can't introduce it in a balanced fashion that doesn't harm the development of the spaceship side?
i.e. Is you problem avatar gameplay - or the way in which it's developed and introduced?
It sounds like you'd be fine with it if CCP could somehow introduce it without effecting spaceship game development. If so then, as I mentioned earlier, shouldn't you be pushing for CCP to bring more balance to it's WiS's implementation rather than completely opposing it's introduction?
Personally I disliked many of the things introduced in Odyssey for example. But as a wormholer I could also see that these changes would bring more people, and more targets, to w-space. So I supported the update overall. Similarly I believe there's benefits that come with avatar gaming, more people, more subscriptions, more targets. And because I'm a roleplayer - more RP fun too. So I support it's introduction. I'm quite happy with the spaceship game as it is, anything extra is a bonus. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) CEO Nighthawk Exploration | Just an innocent explorer passing through-á pâä OOPE Pinup Calender applications |
Dreygun
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 04:49:00 -
[3082] - Quote
the problem with this sort of thinking is that it assumes the problem with the game is that there is not enough spaceship content in the game, and that is what makes for stale gaming.
Its possible that if they add that new area of space or tweak that balance issue then suddenly the meta game will change and people will suddenly start having meaningful interactions with each other on epic scales. In fact i would imagine that a number of things MUST change in the space combat balance for this to happen.
However, I would suggest that another aspect is limiting the experience. That is a real avatar interaction system. As it currently stands the social aspect of eve takes place exclusivly in a chat based system. You don't need to be near each other. each player can simply solo in their own little place and chat with others.
The addition of walking in stations if coupled with a purpose for said action would provide a place for people to interact on a more personal level make friends and then go with those friends out into space and do things in groups. Ultimately this is what eve needs more of. group play.
Now the obvious caveat is that other games feature avatars and those avatars dont always lead to anything but spammed /dance emotes in groups around a local gathering spot. So yea avatars would be awesome for RP players and possibly for a way to boost group play and the ability of intimate friendships to form, but in practice people don't seem to use good social media capabilities for developing meaningful social contact as much as spamming useless stupidity.
/human race fail. |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 05:29:00 -
[3083] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Thetabetalpha wrote:highsec should be nerfed vs nullsec. Agreed. But it has nothing to do with WiS. Exactly, pulling part of the phrase misinterpreting the whole thing has nothing to do with this thread or wis. Makes this another example (in addition to what I wrote in my previous post) of self-entitlement that gets posted by individuals like you.
Too bad, eve is not only about PvP, just like it's not only about spaceships. You are simply too afraid of some "dressed up space barbie" /dancing over your corpse in a station. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
712
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 06:08:00 -
[3084] - Quote
Still trying to figure out why "meaningful" gameplay is so important for WiS.
so, yeah, maybe bad example since it didnt REQUIRE Dev-time to do, but back in SWG, vast majority of the population at any given time could be found in one of the cantinas in the cities, 90% of the time, it wasnt even for the buffs that hung out around there, they would log in, sit down in a chair, and see who all passes by. they, and eventually i too, would sit around, strike up conversations, meet new friends, and then decide to go do things with them.
IMO sometimes, just being able to sit there and have a face to talk to can be an important part of a game's social feature, since even though in SWG you could talk to everyone in your area like in EVE, people still preferred being near their conversational partner at any given time (though i suppose with the inherent risk of being within bullet range of someone in EVE, thats perhaps not so preferable XD).
as for the existence of DUST, all the dev time on that should have been spent making it as an extension of EVE, rather than a separate game, feel kinda cheated that i have to go out and spend ~300 bucks if i dont want to be cut out from something that is/was supposed to be an "important" part of EVE capable of effecting the systems around me.
but whatevs, maybe 15 bucks a month for "half a game", or at least access to half the features, is what games are these days. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2583
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 07:58:00 -
[3085] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Still trying to figure out why "meaningful" gameplay is so important for WiS.
so, yeah, maybe bad example since it didnt REQUIRE Dev-time to do, but back in SWG, vast majority of the population at any given time could be found in one of the cantinas in the cities, 90% of the time, it wasnt even for the buffs that hung out around there, they would log in, sit down in a chair, and see who all passes by. they, and eventually i too, would sit around, strike up conversations, meet new friends, and then decide to go do things with them.
IMO sometimes, just being able to sit there and have a face to talk to can be an important part of a game's social feature, since even though in SWG you could talk to everyone in your area like in EVE, people still preferred being near their conversational partner at any given time (though i suppose with the inherent risk of being within bullet range of someone in EVE, thats perhaps not so preferable XD).
as for the existence of DUST, all the dev time on that should have been spent making it as an extension of EVE, rather than a separate game, feel kinda cheated that i have to go out and spend ~300 bucks if i dont want to be cut out from something that is/was supposed to be an "important" part of EVE capable of effecting the systems around me.
but whatevs, maybe 15 bucks a month for "half a game", or at least access to half the features, is what games are these days.
But, CCP always takes the rough road, don't them? They made a whole game with the premise of interacting to EVE, and several technological challenges later, that interaction has become "leave controller on the sofa, press F1 on your laptop, grab controller and go back to playing". That looks like a drunken "I dare you!" that's gone too far: "I dare you to link EVE to a cons-hole game!" "Challenge -hics- accip... accet... accepted! Hics!" 3 years and god knows how many million dollars later (guesstimate some 10 to 12), Gunner Joe presses F1 on his laptop each 15 minutes & is paying 15 bucks a month for the privilege... and Ishtanchuk Fazmarai can walk her nice afterburner up and down a catwalk, alone at her CQ, and with a serious non-compromise that nothing will be done to improve it for years -3 to 5 at least.
Frankly, yesterday I was so puzzled after realising what CCP Rise was saying (avatar content is costly, so we don't do it for EVE rather we do it for other 2 games that make us no money) that I wrote to the man himself. On second thought probably I should had written to Hilmar, but I'll be waiting for an answer before taking further action... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
466
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 08:30:00 -
[3086] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Rhes wrote:Real Eve content was basically ignored for two years while Incarna was being developed. I don't want that to happen again. Ok. But was it really "ignored"? You've played longer than me Rhes, but I seem to remember updates throughout that period which brought changes and updates to the spaceship game. There's a difference to it being ignored completely and simply not being focussed on as much as you'd personally like it to be. Go back and look at the things introduced to the game while Incarna was being developed. They were all "big ideas" that fell flat and were left to rot. The best example was Faction Warfare (which has since been fixed after the promise to refocus on real Eve content) but things like the Dominion sov system and the problem of super capital proliferation *still* haven't been addressed and when a solution to those problems finally does arrive it will be two years later than it should have been because of WiS.
Quote:And that's a fair point. But it does bring rise to a question - So it's not the fact that avatar-content is being introduced that annoys you, but more-so the fact that you believe CCP can't introduce it in a balanced fashion that doesn't harm the development of the spaceship side?
i.e. Is you problem avatar gameplay - or the way in which it's developed and introduced? This is actually a good point (probably the first one I've seen from a pro-WiS person in this thread). I have admitted that I wasn't against the idea of avatar based content before Incarna was released but after suffering through the game being neglected and then getting a single room maybe it's the sad truth that CCP doesn't have the resources to realize their "vision" for an all-encompassing sci-fi simulator. After DUST failed and WoD continues to linger it's become clear that any more time spent not focusing on what made Eve great in the first place is just wasted development time and money.
Quote:It sounds like you'd be fine with it if CCP could somehow introduce it without effecting spaceship game development. If so then, as I mentioned earlier, shouldn't you be pushing for CCP to bring more balance to it's WiS's implementation rather than completely opposing it's introduction? If CCP was somehow able to develop more WiS nonsense without having the spaceship game suffer I wouldn't care. I no longer believe CCP is capable of doing this, however.
Quote:Personally I disliked many of the things introduced in Odyssey for example. But as a wormholer I could also see that these changes would bring more people, and more targets, to w-space. So I supported the update overall. Similarly I believe there's benefits that come with avatar gaming, more people, more subscriptions, more targets. And because I'm a roleplayer - more RP fun too. So I support it's introduction. I'm quite happy with the spaceship game as it is, anything extra is a bonus. This might have been true before Incarna was released but for the most part the people who just can't enjoy Eve without an avatar have left and quietly moved on to other games. The people who are left (the people mucking up this thread) are just trolls who are literally asking CCP to make the same mistake they made with Incarna. Why CCP allows them to continually troll in this thread is beyond me. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
466
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 08:33:00 -
[3087] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Still trying to figure out why "meaningful" gameplay is so important for WiS. Yes, let's encourage CCP to waste more time and money on adding gameplay to Eve that has no meaning.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
318
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 08:56:00 -
[3088] - Quote
I too would like to thank Rise for sticking to his guns. His decision to not to allow SoE ships to light covert cynos is hereby forgiven ;)
"Ishtanchuk Fazmarai" wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai can walk her nice afterburner up and down a catwalk, alone at her CQ, and with a serious non-compromise that nothing will be done to improve it for years -3 to 5 at least.
And, to be honest, for the better. Barring high-level metagame, EVE's action happens when you press undock - for whatever reasons, and get into action. High-level metagame happens on comms anyway and people don't even log on for that stuff.
When it comes to space, EVE offers a huge variety of content. From being a hulking, kilometer-long behemoth worth of guns and steel in a fleet of hundreds, through crazy frigate and interceptor flying (as close as you can get to twitch gameplay in EVE, damn those things are fast), logistics (GSOL <3) all the way to clandestine operations. It all happens in the same universe, all affects the same people.
While "I was there" was a dumb trailer, like all the trailers are - the saying stuck. Those moments, as rare as they are, exist and are retold on comms on nights when nothing seems to be going on. But, no matter what story it is they have a common theme - they all happen in space, after someone pressed the undock button and left the station. The more reasons and ways CCP gives us to do so, the more chance this time around something amazing will happen.
Integrating station gameplay to generate content like this? Sure, yeah, it'd be a great idea if not for the fact space isn't done yet and it's unwise to start another, completely new piece of content while the previous ones aren't done.
All that said, ISD should unleash the lockhammer upon this thread and stick Rise's statement at the end of it, if just for the sake of making it clear where things stand. A lot of people get confused after reading the first post. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
4743
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 09:04:00 -
[3089] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Why CCP allows them to continually troll in this thread is beyond me. It's a control mechanism. Works great with most people, as they have no clue it's a control mechanism and they wouldn't believe it anyway, if you told them. :)
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
722
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 10:17:00 -
[3090] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:uzzled after realising what CCP Rise was saying (avatar content is costly, so we don't do it for EVE rather we do it for other 2 games that make us no money) that I wrote to the man himself. On second thought probably I should had written to Hilmar, but I'll be waiting for an answer before taking further action...
Lol, it,s a fun company
Where developer are so naive to go on random public forums to state "we're unable" exposing themself to considerations like "then fire the current devlopers and hire more skilled ones, good to develop and not only to edit the ship rebalance excell spreadsheet for years" :)
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Cpt Tirel
62
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 11:00:00 -
[3091] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:I too would like to thank Rise for sticking to his guns. His decision to not to allow SoE ships to light covert cynos is hereby forgiven ;) "Ishtanchuk Fazmarai" wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai can walk her nice afterburner up and down a catwalk, alone at her CQ, and with a serious non-compromise that nothing will be done to improve it for years -3 to 5 at least. And, to be honest, for the better. Barring high-level metagame, EVE's action happens when you press undock - for whatever reasons, and get into action. High-level metagame happens on comms anyway and people don't even log on for that stuff. When it comes to space, EVE offers a huge variety of content. From being a hulking, kilometer-long behemoth worth of guns and steel in a fleet of hundreds, through crazy frigate and interceptor flying (as close as you can get to twitch gameplay in EVE, damn those things are fast), logistics (GSOL <3) all the way to clandestine operations. It all happens in the same universe, all affects the same people. While "I was there" was a dumb trailer, like all the trailers are - the saying stuck. Those moments, as rare as they are, exist and are retold on comms on nights when nothing seems to be going on. But, no matter what story it is they have a common theme - they all happen in space, after someone pressed the undock button and left the station. The more reasons and ways CCP gives us to do so, the more chance this time around something amazing will happen. Integrating station gameplay to generate content like this? Sure, yeah, it'd be a great idea if not for the fact space isn't done yet and it's unwise to start another, completely new piece of content while the previous ones aren't done. Comms is not Eve. I get the feeling sometimes that comms however are the only thing thats entertaining a large part of Eves playerbase, not Eve itself. Perhaps these are the same people that complain about WIS because they dont really have a connection to the world of Eve but instead to comms and their own friends, and just want to blob and blow things up and lol about it. Which is ok, but some of them seem to forget that not everyone plays Eve like they do.
Quote: All that said, ISD should unleash the lockhammer upon this thread and stick Rise's statement at the end of it, if just for the sake of making it clear where things stand. A lot of people get confused after reading the first post.
I doubt an ISD would lock a dev thread. I realize it is an eyesore to many to see this thread bumped constantly, to me it is not |
Flamespar
Woof Club
930
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 11:02:00 -
[3092] - Quote
This thread has been alive for over a year.
Players want meaningful avatar content. It has been amply demonstrated. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
318
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 12:47:00 -
[3093] - Quote
Comms give the voice to a name. They don't "disconnect" players from the "world of EVE" - they help build said world, transforming a bunch of random people into a community.
And this thread isn't really alive - it's mostly undead. In over a year it hit only 148 pages, comparing it to a threadnought about November 7th Live Event that in just mere days hit over 60. It consists mostly of the same phrases, shunning CCP and placing SC effigies everywhere while shouting how an unreleased game that merely gathered money via pie in the sky promises will be a total evekiller.
I think it's time to get rid of the zombie, pin the whole thing as a locked sticky with Rise's statement so that it's clear where CCP's words stand. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Cpt Tirel
64
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 13:44:00 -
[3094] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Comms give the voice to a name. They don't "disconnect" players from the "world of EVE" - they help build said world, transforming a bunch of random people into a community.
If communities are built and based of something that is not directly related to the game i dont think that should be used as a reason for what content to add and not add to that game. If voice comms are the main reason for a player to enjoy the game, i would say throwing more and more content at such player is largely wasted apart from gratifying that player. It also makes the game depend on the communities to grow, because new solo players find the game outdated/boring. An unstable and excluding way of doing things. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
318
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 13:58:00 -
[3095] - Quote
Yup! Solo players then tend to find themselves a community they feel like they belong to and discover that whetever was they're doing can be even better with friends. Hell, even rolling solo you can sit on voice and brag to your corpmates how you just punched a Raven to death with your bare damn rifter.
And let's leave "but poor newbies!" out of this - there's plenty of communities ready to lend a hand to a newbie. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Jadiss
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
14
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 14:14:00 -
[3096] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:
I think it's time to get rid of the zombie, pin the whole thing as a locked sticky with Rise's statement so that it's clear where CCP's words stand.
I think it would be unwise to take Rise's statement into consideration as He works in a different area of development.
|
Resetgun
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 14:40:00 -
[3097] - Quote
It is dead, Jim. Nothing to see here move on!
(Sigh - I should have made female avatar - at least that way I could have stared my ass in this captain room) |
Cpt Tirel
64
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 14:47:00 -
[3098] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Yup! Solo players then tend to find themselves a community they feel like they belong to and discover that whetever was they're doing can be even better with friends. Hell, even rolling solo you can sit on voice and brag to your corpmates how you just punched a Raven to death with your bare damn rifter.
What about those that dont? They dont deserve any new content to play with?
Quote: And let's leave "but poor newbies!" out of this - there's plenty of communities ready to lend a hand to a newbie.
Yea im sure they will be fine.
|
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
782
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 14:53:00 -
[3099] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Yup! Solo players then tend to find themselves a community ...
Exactly they tend to. However there is a portion of the player base that doesn't. It's unwise to base your arguments off of sweeping generalizations (especially when CCP mentioned before that the majority of EVE's players are solo according to their definitions) wumbo |
Naomi Tichim
Lost Star Expeditions
43
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 15:02:00 -
[3100] - Quote
Jadiss wrote:Trii Seo wrote:
I think it's time to get rid of the zombie, pin the whole thing as a locked sticky with Rise's statement so that it's clear where CCP's words stand.
I think it would be unwise to take Rise's statement into consideration as He works in a different area of development.
I simply took Rise's statement as a "we're going to take our time". Avatars are obviously something CCP wants to do, and something I think they should do, but it's also something CCP realizes will take a lot of work. A lot of the opposition to avatars is that many people think (with good reason) that avatar play would be nothing more than a fancy interface. CCP knows this, so they have Team Avatar working on how to give avatar play some actual use - introducing gameplay elements that require you to use avatars.
My guess is that they'll shoot for a big avatar-focused expansion in two to four years. They can do this because CCP is rightfully confident that EVE will still be around then. That should give them enough time to figure it out. It would be smart for them to include some non-avatar content, like rebalancing ships or somesuch. |
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
842
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 15:55:00 -
[3101] - Quote
Rhes wrote:This is actually a good point (probably the first one I've seen from a pro-WiS person in this thread). I have admitted that I wasn't against the idea of avatar based content before Incarna was released but after suffering through the game being neglected and then getting a single room maybe it's the sad truth that CCP doesn't have the resources to realize their "vision" for an all-encompassing sci-fi simulator. After DUST failed and WoD continues to linger it's become clear that any more time spent not focusing on what made Eve great in the first place is just wasted development time and money.
Have you actually been reading the thread? Erica's point is right in line with what a bunch of us have been saying for thread after thread after thread. I don't want the shipping game neglected either; I agree with you that Incarna failed on execution, not on concept. The difference between you and me is that I look at the releases from Crucible forward and I see good execution; I look at the great patience CCP is showing with WoD and see that they're taking the time to do it right instead of rushing out some graphics-card-destroying, dirty little room.
I think that it may be some years before we see it, but where the old CCP failed I think the new CCP can succeed.
Rhes wrote:This might have been true before Incarna was released but for the most part the people who just can't enjoy Eve without an avatar have left and quietly moved on to other games. The people who are left (the people mucking up this thread) are just trolls who are literally asking CCP to make the same mistake they made with Incarna. Why CCP allows them to continually troll in this thread is beyond me.
Er, no. I joined EVE on the tail end of Incarna, just in time to see the mandatory Minmatar CQ and experience the terrible framerate and the complete lack of gameplay. Despite a poor first impression, I stayed because I hooked up with good people who had fun playing the actual game, and I'm enjoying that game as is, and (for the most part) more so with each release (though the Discovery Scanner can go, thanks). I love that CCP has a crazy gleam in their eye and huge plans for their universe and I wholly support that. I want avatar gameplay because I love EVE as it is, and I would love more EVE even more. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2456
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 21:47:00 -
[3102] - Quote
Watch out everyone Rhes is posting again. His posts give me cancer. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
577
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 23:31:00 -
[3103] - Quote
Oberine Noriepa wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I have heard that future plans for avatar content centre around eva in radiation rich structures that only capsuleers can withstand in radiation hardened clones. I can't remember the source though. I wish ccp would confirm this as in a way it ties in with seagull's vision. We scan down structures and loot them in person through avatar gameplay. Is this sarcasm? It's in the first post of this thread. Arduemont wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Apparently there's lots of art assets left over from incarna that they never did anything with. More than 100 items of clothing unreleased. It was in the CSM minutes at the time. A majority of those unreleased items are just color variations of the pants and shirts already available.
No sarcasm I'm a regular on the forums and post on lots of different subjects, very long threads like this of which I've read every page also make the memory a bit blurred especially when they started over a year ago. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
577
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 00:33:00 -
[3104] - Quote
Dust and wod took resources away from eve long before incarna and cost CCP a lot of cash, to the point that they had to take out an emergency loan to stay afloat whilst continuing dust and wod development, without the loan dust would never have been finished, the non eve development diverted resources away from eve and lead to a poorly executed and badly handled incarna and micro transaction store, which itself only existed because of CCPs desperate need for cash. Hilmar himself has admitted all of this in various post incarna statements.
My point is that wod and dust and soon to be valkyrie do not pay the bills and probably never will and had CCP not devoted so much resources to non eve projects and had spent the money on eve online instead then we all could have the eve we want, outstanding avatar gaming alongside and fully integrated with flying in space, a proper living world of science fiction to echo CCP seagulls words...
I support CCPs desire to create multiple streams of income as this makes for a healthy company but it's wrong to do it at the expense of the core game that's paying the bills. Sadly this is exactly what's happening now with wod and valkyrie whilst dust is being pushed of life support.
Two years of ship balancing, ui improvements and minor additions to game play disguised as expansions are not what the fis community deserve, likewise zero development on avatar content is not what the wis community deserves. CCP created this problem by creating an industry leading character creator and a badly implemented room, all I ask is that they finish the job and do it fairly by working on both wis and fis. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
725
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 01:38:00 -
[3105] - Quote
Naomi Tichim wrote:I simply took Rise's statement as a "we're going to take our time".
Well, basically Rise said we're not working on anything relevant for EVE, nothing new, we aleady knew.
I was reading the review of that "meeting" here:
http://themittani.com/news/ccp-rise-hosts-ama-reddit
"developments" (in that speecch) are summarized as:
Quote: No walking in stations content will be developed for the foreseeable future. This is because Eve is a spaceship game and spaceship content has priority, and working on avatar based gameplay is resource intensive. Team Gridlock (a group devoted to improving server performance) has some GÇÿcool stuff in the pipeGÇÖ to reduce lag in large fleet fights. More features similar to the ISIS Ship Browser will be implemented in the future to make the game clearer for new players.
The most relevant thing he foresee is "some GÇÿcool stuff in the pipe", go figure :)
And people ask to him about some of the stuff they feel as more important for EVE: Eise, what about WiS?
"naaah too complicated for us, is not something you can do editing an excell file, one should write code, we understood we're unable"
Ok, then, what about nulls ec sov? is broken since years
"forget it"
Then people try with small things like off-grid booster and ECM
"yeah, we know, they sucks, maybe in some remote future we could work on it"
Ok, Rise, but... at least could fix the Federation Navy Comet's flashing light...
"nah, is not going to happen"
Is all focused on this guy saying they're not going to do anything except never ending editing of the same ships balance excell datasheet :) |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1370
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 01:55:00 -
[3106] - Quote
Even $3.5 millions worth Elite: Dangerous is going to implement avatar gameplay at some point yet for CCP it's "costly" with their $66mil/year budget ($12-16 millions on R&D alone). Greed is good! |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
712
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 05:53:00 -
[3107] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:Still trying to figure out why "meaningful" gameplay is so important for WiS. Yes, let's encourage CCP to waste more time and money on adding gameplay to Eve that has no meaning. you know what i mean, read my post.
why is simply a "social area to hang out with freinds and watch dancers" not good enough? plenty of games have areas dedicated to it, and its generally a fun place to meet with old/new friends, add some ambiance to a meeting, or to just sit around and listen to all the drunk australians trying to do dance emotes with the dancers before passing out drunk with their wallets safely set aside on your table and perhaps soon in your pack.
but seriously, i want WiS finished, not as the first and foremost focus of development, but over time, and i dont really care if it comes with some "compelling and meaningful gameplay content", social places/experience can be content in and of itself.
EVE is supposed to be all about player-driven and created content, WiS would be better as an extension of that, rather than a hub for more meaningles or trivial mechanics or obsolete functions to be shoved into a dark corner and be forgotten about by the rest of EVE.
Just think, Gallente Rave-bars, Amarrian... well... lounges?, minmatar bars complete with brawls and gunfights, and of course all i can think of with caldari would be some shadowrun type deal. fun places to hang out, different styles for different people, no need to throw in "something to do" because hopefully the players would be that something.
but yeah, probably borderline incoherent right now, not enough coffee or sleep. yeah probabaly really incoherent right now, not enough sleep or coffeee. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
712
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 05:55:00 -
[3108] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Naomi Tichim wrote:I simply took Rise's statement as a "we're going to take our time". Well, basically Rise said we're not working on anything relevant for EVE, nothing new, we aleady knew. I was reading the review of that "meeting" here: http://themittani.com/news/ccp-rise-hosts-ama-reddit"developments" (in that speecch) are summarized as: Quote: No walking in stations content will be developed for the foreseeable future. This is because Eve is a spaceship game and spaceship content has priority, and working on avatar based gameplay is resource intensive. Team Gridlock (a group devoted to improving server performance) has some GÇÿcool stuff in the pipeGÇÖ to reduce lag in large fleet fights. More features similar to the ISIS Ship Browser will be implemented in the future to make the game clearer for new players.
The most relevant thing he foresee is "some GÇÿcool stuff in the pipe", go figure :) And people ask to him about some of the stuff they feel as more important for EVE: Eise, what about WiS? "naaah too complicated for us, is not something you can do editing an excell file, one should write code, we understood we're unable"Ok, then, what about nulls ec sov? is broken since years "forget it"Then people try with small things like off-grid booster and ECM "yeah, we know, they sucks, maybe in some remote future we could work on it"Ok, Rise, but... at least could fix the Federation Navy Comet's flashing light... "nah, is not going to happen"Is all focused on this guy saying they're not going to do anything except never ending editing of the same ships balance excell datasheet :) so basically, making the game cooler for new players, so after they chase all the vets out, they'll know they have a good 5-10 years before the enw players get to a point where they start seeing the same shortfalls we do in the servers/game? |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2588
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 08:01:00 -
[3109] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Even $3.5 millions worth Elite: Dangerous is going to implement avatar gameplay at some point yet for CCP it's "costly" with their $66mil/year budget ($12-16 millions on R&D alone). Greed is good!
Well, CIG is about to hit the 34 million mark -that's 6 months worth of income for CCP. That is, between Odyssey and Rubicon, 34 million $ have been earned and mostly spent by CCP, and in exchange for that we got...
- On EVE: Rubicon and some details on the Hallelujah Plan - On DUST: 4 monthly intensive care patches with neutral demographic impact - On WoD: a few extra guys have been hired and they keep doing the stuff they must ready in order to start doing things next year - On CCP: the Newcastle outpost has been beefed up with 15 surplus developers left over from the DUST development, and they're going to develop Valkyrie, a (so far) small, simple and cheap project with huge expectations and a very concrete risk to stop being small, simple and cheap if platforms and "I dare you!" are added to it
Looks like EVE spaceships are getting what they deserve... not much new nor exciting, as just touching EVE is complex and difficult enough. Thinking about adding new spaceships stuff requires at least 3 years of development. And that without a word on fixing the long-dragging issues left over from Incarna (Sov, POSes). There is a lot of spaceship stuff pending to do with what's left after all the other non-EVE projects get their non-spaceships resources, as to add non-spaceship content to EVE itself...
Not even of the "not meaningful" kind, which, amazingly, drives hordes of players to other games... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
324
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 12:28:00 -
[3110] - Quote
So huh, I actually read the article on themittani and noticed something about new models - got me to read up the entire AMA thing with Rise. There's a lot of "management will toss me into the piranha pool if I say anything more" which is understandable company policy. A Dev saying something about a feature usually leads to wild rumourmongering.
But, there's a few fun tidbits:
"CCP Rise" wrote: We know the sov system and super caps need work, but I can't say exactly when either will go to TQ. I really feel weird about the starting point that 'X system is broken, when will it get fixed'. A lot of these systems are really large and complex, and they are getting used by tons and tons of people. If it was literally broken there wouldn't be much risk in just ripping it out and starting over, but because so much of the game happens around systems like Sov, we have to be very delicate with changes. That said, there are a lot of pieces we aren't happy with, and hopefully we see steady improvement over the next several releases as we continue doing balance work (eventually caps/super caps) and as we keep working on the big core game systems like sov.
They acknowledge there's a problem with sov, they also acknowledge replacing it will not be easy. They need to be careful working on it, else we'll end up with something even worse than Dominion system for Sov.
And, something for the fans of zooming in or spinning in hangars:
"CCP Rise" wrote: I'm sure that model (or some version of it) will make it in before long. There are other ship model reworks in the pipe as well and they are all so fantastic. Whenever us designers get lost and wind up in the art department we start freaking out and demanding everything go to TQ immediately until they usher us out.
More on rebalancing, black ops and T3s. Let's hope Covert Legion ceases to be useless because hey - lasers pew pew!
"CCP Rise" wrote: I can't say THE plans for black ops and t3 cruiser balance other than to say we are planning to rebalance them. We have the beginnings of plans for both but I don't want to be too specific. I can say that we aren't going to destroy T3 with nerfs, but we hope to make more subs viable overall.
Judging by him not saying "No!" I reckon a SoE BS is in works too. Time to get that Gal/Amarr BS up to 5 + Large lasers, we've got a faction Black Ops coming in. By the tone of things, POS code revamp may hit before SOV does simply because it affects more people (Pretty much everyone really.) Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
|
Chinwe Rhei
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
46
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 12:56:00 -
[3111] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Rhes wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:Still trying to figure out why "meaningful" gameplay is so important for WiS. Yes, let's encourage CCP to waste more time and money on adding gameplay to Eve that has no meaning. you know what i mean, read my post. why is simply a "social area to hang out with freinds and watch dancers" not good enough? plenty of games have areas dedicated to it, and its generally a fun place to meet with old/new friends, add some ambiance to a meeting, or to just sit around and listen to all the drunk australians trying to do dance emotes with the dancers before passing out drunk with their wallets safely set aside on your table and perhaps soon in your pack. but seriously, i want WiS finished, not as the first and foremost focus of development, but over time, and i dont really care if it comes with some "compelling and meaningful gameplay content", social places/experience can be content in and of itself. EVE is supposed to be all about player-driven and created content, WiS would be better as an extension of that, rather than a hub for more meaningles or trivial mechanics or obsolete functions to be shoved into a dark corner and be forgotten about by the rest of EVE. Just think, Gallente Rave-bars, Amarrian... well... lounges?, minmatar bars complete with brawls and gunfights, and of course all i can think of with caldari would be some shadowrun type deal. fun places to hang out, different styles for different people, no need to throw in "something to do" because hopefully the players would be that something. but yeah, probably borderline incoherent right now, not enough coffee or sleep. yeah probabaly really incoherent right now, not enough sleep or coffeee.
I think what many non-technical people don't understand is that there was a turning point in the development of WiS when CCP had to make a decision of "do we go ahead with this or not ?" and they decided against it because there was no gameplay to justify it. And that was not something that can be done in baby steps, it's a big step, and i don't think EvE is going to ever go ahead with it.
That big step is multiplayer WiS. Right now the avatar gameplay we have is centered around the character creator work that is at it's core and that they worked on independently anyway. That's where most the existing WiS code lies. In addition to that you have a rendered enviroement that the character navigates around and plays a few animations in and you have a few surfaces for playing video and acting as shortcuts to station functions but that's it. Most of that is the work of artists rather than new systems.
But any kind of multiplayer WiS requires hardware support and new server code and a big investment in both. Avatars move much faster and require more interactive response from the server than the sluggish eve ships do, and server load (and graphics load) rises very quickly with multiple characters interacting with each other, especially the non-game optimized EvE avatars that were initially meant to be pre-rendered not interactive. It's not much easier to have "social WiS" over "shooting WiS" but they're both much harder than single-player WiS because that's just a skin over the station interface.
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
324
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 13:12:00 -
[3112] - Quote
Chinwe Rhei wrote: That big step is multiplayer WiS. Right now the avatar gameplay we have is centered around the character creator work that is at it's core and that they worked on independently anyway. That's where most the existing WiS code lies. In addition to that you have a rendered enviroement that the character navigates around and plays a few animations in and you have a few surfaces for playing video and acting as shortcuts to station functions but that's it. Most of that is the work of artists rather than new systems.
That's well put but I bet it'll just get lost in the drivel about how CCP is bad for not developing WiS and working on spaceships instead. Gamedev is kind of like pimpin' - it ain' easy. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2461
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 13:23:00 -
[3113] - Quote
Chinwe Rhei wrote:I think what many non-technical people don't understand is that there was a turning point in the development of WiS when CCP had to make a decision of "do we go ahead with this or not ?" and they decided against it because there was no gameplay to justify it.
I don't think you've actually read any of this thread, have you?
CCP Unifex wrote:It has been fantastic to see the Avatar team show everyone that there is meaningful gameplay using more than just your ship as your agent in the EVE Universe. The prototyping work they have done in Unity has allowed them to rapidly explore different themes and make a game which is challenging, fun and in the true spirit of EVE.
Second post in the thread. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
30
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 14:32:00 -
[3114] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:That's well put but I bet it'll just get lost in the drivel about how CCP is bad for not developing WiS and working on spaceships instead. Gamedev is kind of like pimpin' - it ain' easy. You and Rhes (it made me think you are his alt, since he completely disappeared from this thread once you started posting your tirades about spaceships and how bad avatars are for Eve) are the ones that love to troll this thread with so much of your own nonsense - how bad WiS, Incarna and whatever Avatar content is or would be for "only spaceships" game. It went as far as you two posting your crap in the "Team Avatar and the future of our prototype" while Rhes saying that 95% people who are avatar content proponents are trolls, all while he plastered "dress-up spacebarbies" and "2nd Life" in every his previous post.
Now please give us an example where anyone said it is bad for devs to work on spaceships? The only concern here that ppl express is that CCP does too little for what their "vision" is. Ship balance is not an expansion worthy material again. Most people agree on that the latest expansions lack much content and are merely patches. Also what most agree on is that side projects were main reason Eve is more or less in maintenance mode now. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1135
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 15:40:00 -
[3115] - Quote
I used to really wish CCP did something about avatars but since they can't even release clothing items they have ready for the last 2 years I just give up. They can do what they want, the fire I had for Eve is gone. There will be 2 other games out there that will give me what i'm looking for, SC and Elite. And no, you can't have my stuff Rhes ;) This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
726
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 16:21:00 -
[3116] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote: You and Rhes (it made me think you are his alt, since he completely disappeared from this thread once you started posting your tirades about spaceships and how bad avatars are for Eve) are the ones that love to troll this thread with so much of your own nonsense
it's always the same guy, with multiple female alts and some insane obsession for barbies. Is mediocre as troll too, only a waste of time. just ignore. |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 16:42:00 -
[3117] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:CCP Unifex wrote:It has been fantastic to see the Avatar team show everyone that there is meaningful gameplay using more than just your ship as your agent in the EVE Universe. The prototyping work they have done in Unity has allowed them to rapidly explore different themes and make a game which is challenging, fun and in the true spirit of EVE. Second post in the thread. And this game/meaningful gameplay is?
If he means WiS exploration then yes, that was interesting, but pretty much everything CCP show on their events are interesting and cool looking. For example you might remember when they showed bloodline blending at fanfest 2012 it was awesome and what we got was this, which is meh.
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
582
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:04:00 -
[3118] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Chinwe Rhei wrote: That big step is multiplayer WiS. Right now the avatar gameplay we have is centered around the character creator work that is at it's core and that they worked on independently anyway. That's where most the existing WiS code lies. In addition to that you have a rendered enviroement that the character navigates around and plays a few animations in and you have a few surfaces for playing video and acting as shortcuts to station functions but that's it. Most of that is the work of artists rather than new systems.
That's well put but I bet it'll just get lost in the drivel about how CCP is bad for not developing WiS and working on spaceships instead. Gamedev is kind of like pimpin' - it ain' easy.
Nobody has said that FIS is drivel... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
93
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:16:00 -
[3119] - Quote
A question for all the "Oh God! Avatars and dancing and emotes and Barbie and RARAARAAAAAAHHHH!!"-people:
Let's say you're flying around in your pretty spaceship, see a juicy target and:
1) Blow him up.
2) Harvest tears in local.
Wouldn't it be way more fun if you could dock up at the same station as your victim, go to the public area and find the dude, do a little victory dance and say "Yeah, that's right! It's me. Whatcha gonna do about it?", and then do an obscene emote? |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2463
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:39:00 -
[3120] - Quote
Souxie Alduin wrote:A question for all the "Oh God! Avatars and dancing and emotes and Barbie and RARAARAAAAAAHHHH!!"-people:
Let's say you're flying around in your pretty spaceship, see a juicy target and:
1) Blow him up.
2) Harvest tears in local.
Wouldn't it be way more fun if you could dock up at the same station as your victim, go to the public area and find the dude, do a little victory dance and say "Yeah, that's right! It's me. Whatcha gonna do about it?", and then do an obscene emote?
No. But I might like to shoot them in the face in the wreckage of a radioactive station. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
|
Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 17:57:00 -
[3121] - Quote
I resubscribed recently and promptly checked out the new mobile depot for it's "immersion factor", so to say. Sadly, there was hardly one, in my opinion.
Looking at the depot, i thought: wouldn't it be cool to have you own little home with a spectacular view at all the pretty nebulas - from the viewpoint of an avatar/person and not of a ship-entity? Literally through a window into space.
And then it hit me - all the small fragments and pieces of "proper", "meaningful" WiS are already there. We have the mobile depot to store your stuff and refit your ship while you are away from a station or a starbase and maybe somewhere deep into Nullsec. We already have a somewhat working prototype for walking in a room and interaction with objects in 3rd person view. We have got a new ship with some serious firepower to allow players sneaking into low and null for ratting, exploration or pvp more easily. There is also some general focus on exploration lately, with various new loots. And there is constant demand for some vanity items and avatar decorations.
Putting these fragments together creates a logical(from my standpoint, at least) evolution of the WiS concept - one that serves a game purpose involving direct interaction with FiS content.
Therefore my suggestion:
Restart WiS in a smaller, more controllable environment, that does not carry the burden of a gigantic vision about hundreds of wildly emoting players on your screen at once - or even the horrors at Jitat 4-4 - and gigantic, varying station environments.
Start with a personal outpost - not unlike a mobile depot - with a room, similar to the current WiS one and a big window into space to remind you of what game you are playing . Allow players to dock to it and store 2 ships there, limiting it to the cruiser size. Allow players to decorate their home - look at Mass Effect captain's quarters for a very simple way. It would be already enough for a start. Create some useful holoscreens with some interesting information for the 3rd view: for example display of PI reactor time, production etc. And now allow players to invite one(1) another person into their home, if they keep one of the two hangar slots free to dock to.
From here it's easy to slowly go up in size:
A 10 people outpost for small corporation, stores 20 ships, may be decorated. Several rooms, and at it's heart the war room where you can use a map tool to mark places and discuss ship movements etc in a graphical way. This outpost would be hard to locate and, compared to a moon tower, would be ideal for groups that do not like to see their installation being scouted and hotdropped by 100 capitals on their first day in nullsec.
Next would be a 30-40 people trading outpost/casino/amusement park involving some sabotage, wild 3rd person shooting, FiS pewpewing and bank robbing - and all sorts of profitable ingame buisiness opportunities.
I would like to write more as i have a couple of ideas on fairly easy money for CCP, but this post is already a bit too big and i just wanted to see if there is general interest in the ideas above. If you liked what you've read and found that interesting, just comment here or like this post and i will add more details on hows and whys later. |
Jara Blackwind
Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari
15
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 20:09:00 -
[3122] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Even $3.5 millions worth Elite: Dangerous is going to implement avatar gameplay at some point yet for CCP it's "costly" with their $66mil/year budget ($12-16 millions on R&D alone). Greed is good!
By the way. About Flying in Spaceships.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s6WmsnwNq98#t=72
But hey, who needs immersion in a spaceship game? Uncaring demigods herpity derp players are the content hurpity durp 3D assets are costly and the core player base doesn't want that immersion anyway, because it increases load times on a ZX Spectrum by 4 seconds and they'll just turn it off. (Undock animation anyone?) And no, we won't update the pod skin in your CQ because 3 years ago you whined too much. No no no, not even with a 10-foot pole, we're not touching anything there ever again. Just no.
*sigh* |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2591
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 20:10:00 -
[3123] - Quote
Inir Ishtori wrote:I resubscribed recently and promptly checked out the new mobile depot for it's "immersion factor", so to say. Sadly, there was hardly one, in my opinion. Looking at the depot, i thought: wouldn't it be cool to have you own little home with a spectacular view at all the pretty nebulas - from the viewpoint of an avatar/person and not of a ship-entity? Literally through a window into space. And then it hit me - all the small fragments and pieces of "proper", "meaningful" WiS are already there. We have the mobile depot to store your stuff and refit your ship while you are away from a station or a starbase and maybe somewhere deep into Nullsec. We already have a somewhat working prototype for walking in a room and interaction with objects in 3rd person view. We have got a new ship with some serious firepower to allow players sneaking into low and null for ratting, exploration or pvp more easily. There is also some general focus on exploration lately, with various new loots. And there is constant demand for some vanity items and avatar decorations. Putting these fragments together creates a logical(from my standpoint, at least) evolution of the WiS concept - one that serves a game purpose involving direct interaction with FiS content. Therefore my suggestion:Restart WiS in a smaller, more controllable environment, that does not carry the burden of a gigantic vision about hundreds of wildly emoting players on your screen at once - or even the horrors at Jitat 4-4 - and gigantic, varying station environments. Start with a personal outpost - not unlike a mobile depot - with a room, similar to the current WiS one and a big window into space to remind you of what game you are playing . Allow players to dock to it and store 2 ships there, limiting it to the cruiser size. Allow players to decorate their home - look at Mass Effect captain's quarters for a very simple way. It would be already enough for a start. Create some useful holoscreens with some interesting information for the 3rd view: for example display of PI reactor time, production etc. And now allow players to invite one(1) another person into their home, if they keep one of the two hangar slots free to dock to. From here it's easy to slowly go up in size: A 10 people outpost for small corporation, stores 20 ships, may be decorated. Several rooms(where you are able to encounter all other inhabitants inside at the same time) and at it's heart the war room where you can use a map tool to mark places and discuss ship movements etc in a graphical way. This outpost would be hard to locate and, compared to a moon tower, would be ideal for groups that do not like to see their installation being scouted and hotdropped by 100 capitals on their first day in nullsec. Next would be a 30-40 people trading outpost/casino/amusement park involving some sabotage, wild 3rd person shooting, FiS pewpewing and bank robbing - and all sorts of profitable ingame buisiness opportunities. I would like to write more as i have a couple of ideas on fairly easy money for CCP, but this post is already a bit too big and i just wanted to see if there is general interest in the ideas above. If you liked what you've read and found that interesting, just comment here or like this post and i will add more details on hows and whys later.
I suggested a similar "baby steps" approach because I was fully aware that otherwise we would end up here: "it's too big, we can't implement it, but only for our games that start with an E". If Valkyrie got any avatar content, my manic laugh would be heard all the way to Reykjavik... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
846
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 21:50:00 -
[3124] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Lipbite wrote:Even $3.5 millions worth Elite: Dangerous is going to implement avatar gameplay at some point yet for CCP it's "costly" with their $66mil/year budget ($12-16 millions on R&D alone). Greed is good! Well, CIG is about to hit the 34 million mark -that's 6 months worth of income for CCP. That is, between Odyssey and Rubicon, 34 million $ have been earned and mostly spent by CCP, and in exchange for that we got...
I don't think either is immune to the 80/20 rule[1]. CCP's problem, which Rise mentions, is that when you have a shipping game you're always in the last 20%, because the hard part is the balancing and polishing phase where you make sure that everything works seamlessly together. Furthermore, since it's a sandbox, you're not just rebalancing a boss or adding a new area. You're changing the fundamental laws by which the universe operates... while the universe continues to operate. It's not hard to "just change a value in a database" and cripple the game.
CCP Rise is exactly right about the difficulty of fixing sov. You can't even identify how sov is broken without understanding the entire ecology of null sec, and you can't understand that without understanding the ecology of the rest of the game. To pick an example, it's trivially easy to assert that there must exist a "risk:reward" relationship. It's incredibly hard to determine the exact nature of that relationship--logarithmic? linear? geometric? exponential?--without knowing when and how risk aversion manifests in the player base, and which mechanics enable it in which ways in which parts of space, and how effectively they do.
Now, consider adding avatar gameplay to a game designed around 1 second ticks, while that game is running, and while it is entertaining people who prefer it precisely because of the way that it buries poor and variable connection latency, and encourages tactical thinking over twitch play, and allows the game to scale up to fights on a scale seen nowhere else in the industry. Impossible? No. Much, much harder than starting an avatar-and-ships game from a clean sheet of paper, assuming modern hardware? Yes.
To see what I mean, go read the Marauder threadnaught. Changing values in a database is easy. Figuring out which to change, and by how much, and how the changes will enable new gameplay without invalidating (too much) existing gameplay? and which gameplay? Suddenly, 400 pages.
[1] for non-developers: the rule states that the first 80% of development takes 20% of the time, and the last 20% takes 80% of the time. Wags will note that the rule is so na+»ve and optimistic that it assumes that the project will be completed on schedule. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
293
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 22:11:00 -
[3125] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Now, consider adding avatar gameplay to a game designed around 1 second ticks, while that game is running,
RTFT already. The CQ does not work on 1 second tics, it is an instance of sorts inside the server, meaning it does not work straight through Tranquility which is why having a realtime vista to the station undock is hard if not impossible to implement at this time. This has been explained before. A lot of stuff that people who say WiS is too hard to implement and too time consuming has been refuted time and over again in this thread, usually at maximum ten pages back. This thread just keeps going in circles and it is tiresome. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2593
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 07:49:00 -
[3126] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Lipbite wrote:Even $3.5 millions worth Elite: Dangerous is going to implement avatar gameplay at some point yet for CCP it's "costly" with their $66mil/year budget ($12-16 millions on R&D alone). Greed is good! Well, CIG is about to hit the 34 million mark -that's 6 months worth of income for CCP. That is, between Odyssey and Rubicon, 34 million $ have been earned and mostly spent by CCP, and in exchange for that we got... I don't think either is immune to the 80/20 rule[1]. CCP's problem, which Rise mentions, is that when you have a shipping game you're always in the last 20%, because the hard part is the balancing and polishing phase where you make sure that everything works seamlessly together. Furthermore, since it's a sandbox, you're not just rebalancing a boss or adding a new area. You're changing the fundamental laws by which the universe operates... while the universe continues to operate. It's not hard to "just change a value in a database" and cripple the game. CCP Rise is exactly right about the difficulty of fixing sov. You can't even identify how sov is broken without understanding the entire ecology of null sec, and you can't understand that without understanding the ecology of the rest of the game. To pick an example, it's trivially easy to assert that there must exist a "risk:reward" relationship. It's incredibly hard to determine the exact nature of that relationship--logarithmic? linear? geometric? exponential?--without knowing when and how risk aversion manifests in the player base, and which mechanics enable it in which ways in which parts of space, and how effectively they do. To see what I mean, go read the Marauder threadnaught. Changing values in a database is easy. Figuring out which to change, and by how much, and how the changes will enable new gameplay without invalidating (too much) existing gameplay? and which gameplay? Suddenly, 400 pages. Now, consider adding avatar gameplay to a game designed around 1 second ticks, while that game is running, and while it is entertaining people who prefer it precisely because of the way that it buries poor and variable connection latency, and encourages tactical thinking over twitch play, and allows the game to scale up to fights on a scale seen nowhere else in the industry. Impossible? No. Much, much harder than starting an avatar-and-ships game from a clean sheet of paper, assuming modern hardware? Yes. [1] for non-developers: the rule states that the first 80% of development takes 20% of the time, and the last 20% takes 80% of the time. Wags will note that the rule is so na+»ve and optimistic that it assumes that the project will be completed on schedule.
Point 1: station content doesn't needs to run on 1 sec ticks as long as it is completely detached from space. Point 2: the whole point of running WiS, is to bypass the increasing complexity of FiS content. If the juggler on Ring 1 is too busy keeping everything in the air, just add a second ring to the show and run something else on it.
"Oh, but that's not meaningful enough to Ring 1!", will cry some. But that doesn't bloody matters as long as people buy tickets and they're happy with the show they're enjoying.
Meaningfulness is killing DUST 514; the pretense that it had to matter to the FiS universe stole too many developer resources to make a competent FPS in the first place. So they have a half-assed FPS with the amazing feature of allowing the players press F1 on a PC each now and then and rain death on their foes. Was it worth? How much avatar content could had bought for EVE that kind of effort?
Avatar gameplay means a chance to add depth and novelty to the game without messing too much with the nightmareish complexity of FiS. And this game desperately needs to keep attracting new customers, whcih si way mor eliekly to ahppen with new content than with painstakingly reheated porridge. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
326
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 08:26:00 -
[3127] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Now, consider adding avatar gameplay to a game designed around 1 second ticks, while that game is running, RTFT already. The CQ does not work on 1 second tics, it is an instance of sorts inside the server, meaning it does not work straight through Tranquility which is why having a realtime vista to the station undock is hard if not impossible to implement at this time. This has been explained before. A lot of stuff that people who say WiS is too hard to implement and too time consuming has been refuted time and over again in this thread, usually at maximum ten pages back. This thread just keeps going in circles and it is tiresome.
~correct~
In a way.
The moment you attempt to transfer the current single player version of CQ into MP environment, you start having problems. Let's take a station env for instance. You have to plan for scaling:
- Deadend low/null system: 0-5 people. Doable with acceptable framerate at the current standard, possible instanced environment. - Small alliance capital system: 30-100 people. Things get hairy when you have to render 50 rather detailed characters (and that's done by a base mesh being transformed mind you, not a preset model being just dumped in). - Coalition staging point: 300-700+ people: Escalating the above problem. - Jita: 1k+ people: You should probably get it by now.
So let's instance it by alliance!
Example: Goonswarm Federation: 11k people. Even at 10% of that logged in simultaneously you're getting over 1k people to render.
...by corp? Goonwaffe: 3k people. With optimistic 10% logged in simultaneously you fall to the second case of 300 people to render.
"Ishtanchuk Fazmarai" wrote: Avatar gameplay means a chance to add depth and novelty to the game without messing too much with the nightmareish complexity of FiS. And this game desperately needs to keep attracting new customers, whcih si way mor eliekly to ahppen with new content than with painstakingly reheated porridge.
Sooner or later the devs will have to face the complex mess and fix parts of it. It's better that instead of new jesus features that end up as another mess anyway they actually took it on and are fixing things. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2465
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 10:16:00 -
[3128] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Stuff
Very eloquent, but as a Web and Software developer myself, I can truthfully say that when your employers/customers say they want something done "It's hard" is not a valid excuse.
"It's hard" hasn't stopped CCP from developing four games and a mobile app (or three) on the income of one game (Eve). Maybe if they weren't over stretching themselves it wouldn't seem so hard.
Trii Seo wrote: The moment you attempt to transfer the current single player version of CQ into MP environment, you start having problems. Let's take a station env for instance. You have to plan for scaling:
Nobody wants to stand in a square with 100s of people they have nothing to do it. Scale is irrelevant when what people really want from a social environment is to gamble with corp mates or something. The UI mock-ups for the "Corporate Quarters" showed a max players count. So controlling the number of people in the environment would be childs play, the same as they do with Jita when it gets too full. Just set a max.
And that's only if CCP didn't steer towards the more obviously enjoyable station exploration where you would never get "hundreds" of players anyway. They have already been playing working versions with two teams of ten, so we know it's not impossible. 'Scale' is a poor excuse. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1422
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 10:27:00 -
[3129] - Quote
Everything is invented long time ago: building floors (i.e. instances) with 50-200 toons limit and ability to switch between them (example: SWTOR). Don't like word "instances"? Make them permanent (Jita = 30 floors x 100 toons, "provincial" stations - 10 floors). Just CCP prefers not to do anything having zero competition on sci-fi sandbox MMO games market. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
862
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 11:29:00 -
[3130] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Now, consider adding avatar gameplay to a game designed around 1 second ticks, while that game is running, RTFT already. The CQ does not work on 1 second tics, it is an instance of sorts inside the server, meaning it does not work straight through Tranquility which is why having a realtime vista to the station undock is hard if not impossible to implement at this time. This has been explained before. A lot of stuff that people who say WiS is too hard to implement and too time consuming has been refuted time and over again in this thread, usually at maximum ten pages back. This thread just keeps going in circles and it is tiresome. Indeed, the current CQ implementation is nothing but an advanced 3D GUI as the only information sent back to the server is if you click on any buttons. The server doesn't even know where in the CQ your character is located. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
|
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
728
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:38:00 -
[3131] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Indeed, the current CQ implementation is nothing but an advanced 3D GUI as the only information sent back to the server is if you click on any buttons. The server doesn't even know where in the CQ your character is located.
What he said.
The graphic load is all client side. It's embarassing having to explain this stuff in a forum where are supsoed to be gamers (and experienced generally).
Also is not rocket science, I see people talking about avatar based gaming as some new frontier where nobody dared to go before :)
Is actually the most standard, trivial and well consolidated gameplay, mostly on the MMORPG scene.
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
326
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 13:36:00 -
[3132] - Quote
It's actually amusing to read people that think they know what they're talking about.
Assume we implement floors as a clever disguise of instancing, and a cap of players per floor/station. Given this is EVE, stationside violence shouldn't be impossible.
So how about a player tactic that involves hopping into a busy instance, abusing the cap to avoid retaliation from another player?
And, while we're at it - what purpose does the whole thing serve? Eye candy that slows down your undocking time? Is it a useless gimmick people will get bored with after 2-3 days and return to ship spinning interface? The answer is, likely, yes - and that means devtime was wasted on said gimmick. Devtime that could've been allocated to more pressing matters.
I'm all for deep, meaningful and amazing WiS where I'll be able to yell at my corpmates in image and voice alike (Full HD too, with surround and preferably in 3D vision) but until issues with actual gameplay are sorted properly focusing on a gimmick is a big mistake.
(Those damn deployables may not be ~immersive~ but they're useful. To many people they expand the possibilities of gameplay. That was a step in good direction, a small one with quite a big impact to be honest.) Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2472
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 13:44:00 -
[3133] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:It's actually amusing to read people that think they know what they're talking about. Tell us great one, about your experience in software/games design, that renders our views irrelevant.
Trii Seo wrote:So how about a player tactic that involves hopping into a busy instance, abusing the cap to avoid retaliation from another player? This already happens in sov warfare. What exactly is your point?
The rest of your post was the usual trivial crap. No points in there not already covered thousands of times before in this thread. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
326
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 14:19:00 -
[3134] - Quote
Arduemont wrote: This already happens in sov warfare. What exactly is your point?
You do realize it doesn't, right? There's this wonderful new thing called TiDi that's been around for, I don't know, two years that prevents just this?
For now CQ is an artsywork SP module that runs, from the looks of it, completely clientside. CCP would likely have to recode the whole thing from scratch and that takes devtime - one that could be put elsewhere.
Flying In Space has many lingering issues - POSes affect us all and are terrible. Sov affects many and discourages many from sov warfare (because it's either being in a 200+ man blob or grinding a structure for hours.) and those things alone are a few good weeks of brainstorming to fix.
And that's not to mention the ships themselves aren't done - many T2's still have problems, capitals and supers are a major bugbear to deal with. Even from a graphics standpoint space needs some shineys, especially as far as lighting is concerned. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Cpt Tirel
67
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 15:27:00 -
[3135] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: For now CQ is an artsywork SP module that runs, from the looks of it, completely clientside. CCP would likely have to recode the whole thing from scratch and that takes devtime - one that could be put elsewhere.
It is FIS that needs a recode, a huge one. EVE has become like old silverware and every time CCP shines it up the players complain that it is not shiny enough. And it isnt, probably never will be because the base game is old. FIS probably cannot be "fixed" unless they make a new game, instead they made WIS, a newer less limited game within an old game, but old grandmother-like people like you would rather have them continue to scrubbing that ancient silverware. |
Naomi Tichim
Lost Star Expeditions
43
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 17:21:00 -
[3136] - Quote
Inir Ishtori wrote:I resubscribed recently and promptly checked out the new mobile depot for it's "immersion factor", so to say. Sadly, there was hardly one, in my opinion. Looking at the depot, i thought: wouldn't it be cool to have you own little home with a spectacular view at all the pretty nebulas - from the viewpoint of an avatar/person and not of a ship-entity? Literally through a window into space. And then it hit me - all the small fragments and pieces of "proper", "meaningful" WiS are already there. We have the mobile depot to store your stuff and refit your ship while you are away from a station or a starbase and maybe somewhere deep into Nullsec. We already have a somewhat working prototype for walking in a room and interaction with objects in 3rd person view. We have got a new ship with some serious firepower to allow players sneaking into low and null for ratting, exploration or pvp more easily. There is also some general focus on exploration lately, with various new loots. And there is constant demand for some vanity items and avatar decorations. Putting these fragments together creates a logical(from my standpoint, at least) evolution of the WiS concept - one that serves a game purpose involving direct interaction with FiS content. Therefore my suggestion:Restart WiS in a smaller, more controllable environment, that does not carry the burden of a gigantic vision about hundreds of wildly emoting players on your screen at once - or even the horrors at Jitat 4-4 - and gigantic, varying station environments. Start with a personal outpost - not unlike a mobile depot - with a room, similar to the current WiS one and a big window into space to remind you of what game you are playing . Allow players to dock to it and store 2 ships there, limiting it to the cruiser size. Allow players to decorate their home - look at Mass Effect captain's quarters for a very simple way. It would be already enough for a start. Create some useful holoscreens with some interesting information for the 3rd view: for example display of PI reactor time, production etc. And now allow players to invite one(1) another person into their home, if they keep one of the two hangar slots free to dock to. From here it's easy to slowly go up in size: A 10 people outpost for small corporation, stores 20 ships, may be decorated. Several rooms(where you are able to encounter all other inhabitants inside at the same time) and at it's heart the war room where you can use a map tool to mark places and discuss ship movements etc in a graphical way. This outpost would be hard to locate and, compared to a moon tower, would be ideal for groups that do not like to see their installation being scouted and hotdropped by 100 capitals on their first day in nullsec. Next would be a 30-40 people trading outpost/casino/amusement park involving some sabotage, wild 3rd person shooting, FiS pewpewing and bank robbing - and all sorts of profitable ingame buisiness opportunities. I would like to write more as i have a couple of ideas on fairly easy money for CCP, but this post is already a bit too big and i just wanted to see if there is general interest in the ideas above. If you liked what you've read and found that interesting, just comment here or like this post and i will add more details on hows and whys later.
I like it. I'd suggest that corporate offices in stations should get some of the same functionality. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2473
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 18:39:00 -
[3137] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Arduemont wrote: This already happens in sov warfare. What exactly is your point?
You do realize it doesn't, right? There's this wonderful new thing called TiDi that's been around for, I don't know, two years that prevents just this? So why then, was there more than 1000 Tribe/Test/etc people sitting on titans unable to jump in when Goons polished off Test Alliance HQ? Hm?
Trii Seo wrote: For now CQ is an artsywork SP module that runs, from the looks of it, completely clientside. CCP would likely have to recode the whole thing from scratch and that takes devtime - one that could be put elsewhere.
Flying In Space has many lingering issues - POSes affect us all and are terrible. Sov affects many and discourages many from sov warfare (because it's either being in a 200+ man blob or grinding a structure for hours.) and those things alone are a few good weeks of brainstorming to fix.
Maybe then you should be whining about things that actually are taking up all Eve's dev time, instead of whining in here. Like for example Dust, WoD, Valkyrie and a bunch of mobile apps no one will appreciate. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
326
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 19:16:00 -
[3138] - Quote
Arduemont wrote: So why then, was there more than 1000 Tribe/Test/etc people sitting on titans unable to jump in when Goons polished off Test Alliance HQ? Hm?
I'm not sure, but it might be because they were kind of dead and not sitting on titans. There were only ~2k CFC at peak and local went up to 4k with TEST and Co. around. And no, local doesn't reach cap regularily in big fights.
When it comes to devtime, I could scream - like many others - that I'm a paying customer and I shall demand the rope be pulled my way, no matter what insensible idiocy I happen to be spouting out. Fortunately, above the coders in CCP stand managers and CSM. That actually do things, believe it or not - earlier CCP announced that T3 sub refits won't come in Rubicon. They did.
They know more about time management, company resources and strategy than we do. Sides, while those are CCP products - I do believe they're actually developed by a different team than the one working on EVE.
FiS has its flaws, but it's also the best part of EVE. The base mechanics are solid and the developers are iterating on that ground, which is as it should be - there isn't a single game that allows fights of such varying scale. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2474
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 19:24:00 -
[3139] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Arduemont wrote: So why then, was there more than 1000 Tribe/Test/etc people sitting on titans unable to jump in when Goons polished off Test Alliance HQ? Hm?
That's not true! WAH!
Oh all right, so all the first person accounts I hear from members of Tribe who were actually sitting on titans ready to jump are obviously rubbish and you know best.
As for the "CCP knows best" argument. That used to be a difficult case to argue against... but then there was Incarnageddon, massive lay offs, Dust launch flopping and other such **** ups.
If CCP knows best why do they continually rely on player input on their changes? Answer; because they don't. They rely on what the players want for their development decisions. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
326
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 19:40:00 -
[3140] - Quote
Well then it's a good thing they're ignoring this thread because it's full of literally everything but constructive input so far. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
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CCP Aporia
C C P C C P Alliance
116
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 20:06:00 -
[3141] - Quote
CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-: Senior Programmer Team Special Circumstances Friend of Walking Avatars |
|
Naomi Tichim
Lost Star Expeditions
43
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 20:09:00 -
[3142] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:
That figures. |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 20:40:00 -
[3143] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:When it comes to devtime, I could scream - like many others - that I'm a paying customer and I shall demand the rope be pulled my way, no matter what insensible idiocy I happen to be spouting out. <...> They know more about time management, company resources and strategy than we do. Sides, while those are CCP products - I do believe they're actually developed by a different team than the one working on EVE. Maybe it should also occur to you that there're plenty of paying customers here also, here in this very thread about avatar content and everything related to it.
You really think the resources are managed well enough? Wonder what all the other project teams are funded by... Your precious "spaceships only" Eve, which received "oh so much" attention from development team lately (Fozzie and Rise were hired from playerbase directly.)
But it's not like your Trii Seo wrote:insensible idiocy I happen to be spouting out is affecting their decision, but rather CCP's way investing in Dust, WoD and Valkyrie plus whatever other yet unannounced projects. Potentially Eve could be oh so much more even if it were only about spaceships.
But we did pay for Eve, and it's their money now. Their master-plan of people hooked to skill queue online pays well |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1087
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 20:56:00 -
[3144] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:
Thankfully they are just a minority. The Tears Must Flow |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
784
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:01:00 -
[3145] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-: Thankfully they are just a minority.
Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative. wumbo |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1087
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:04:00 -
[3146] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-: Thankfully they are just a minority. Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative.
Second Life already exists. The Tears Must Flow |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2598
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:09:00 -
[3147] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:
If I had that kind of money (and faith on CCP) I would hand you 10 million dollars to hire 100 additional devs and put them to work on WiS alone.
The key concept is, additional devs. Spaceship devs may not be the right people to make avatars. Specially if they should be busy with spaceships.
That was the lesson I take from Incarna.
And, as for meaningful avatar gameplay... this thread has shown many times that the definition of "meaningful" should be left to the players willing to pay for WiS.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3559
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:10:00 -
[3148] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Eli Green wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-: Thankfully they are just a minority. Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative. Second Life already exists. Look out guys! We got another edgy badass over here!
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2598
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:17:00 -
[3149] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Eli Green wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-: Thankfully they are just a minority. Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative. Second Life already exists.
Also exists this. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1087
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:25:00 -
[3150] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Eli Green wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-: Thankfully they are just a minority. Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative. Second Life already exists. Also exists this.
This also exists, it's even better. The Tears Must Flow |
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
586
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:25:00 -
[3151] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Eli Green wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-: Thankfully they are just a minority. Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative. Second Life already exists.
Boo Hoo, CCP not going your way, HTFU. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1087
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:28:00 -
[3152] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Eli Green wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-: Thankfully they are just a minority. Strange you would be thankful for a minority of the company being innovative. Second Life already exists. Boo Hoo, CCP not going your way, HTFU.
I think you've got it backwards, CCP is going my way. The Tears Must Flow |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
586
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:30:00 -
[3153] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:
Thanks for posting, it's nice to know that there's some hope even if it's a long way off. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
589
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:44:00 -
[3154] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: I think you've got it backwards, CCP is going my way.
If you were aware of my earlier post you'd understand that I favour both fis and wis development to have equal attention, you however are partisan and favour only fis development. Why would you want to limit an amazing sci fi universe to just one form of meaningful game play?
The fis crowd say that eve is only about spaceships, but that is as stupid as PI players saying that eve is all about planetary interaction when clearly it isn't.
You should come back to this conversation when you can meaningfully demonstrate that you have the IQ to participate. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2476
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 00:43:00 -
[3155] - Quote
Oh look another one's back. Not even much point in talking with Vaju, he can't hold a coherent conversation nevermind string an argument together. Probably one of the stupidest cunts on the forum. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Broker Agent
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 01:03:00 -
[3156] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:
Thank you. It's good to hear some people at CCP still have the dream of a complete sci-fi simulator. It's just a shame management don't think the same way. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1091
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 01:25:00 -
[3157] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Oh look another one's back. Not even much point in talking with Vaju, he can't hold a coherent conversation nevermind string an argument together. Probably one of the stupidest cunts on the forum.
Oh look, another diarrhea post from the pedo that's a member of the two digit iq club. The Tears Must Flow |
Flamespar
Woof Club
935
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 02:23:00 -
[3158] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Arduemont wrote:Oh look another one's back. Not even much point in talking with Vaju, he can't hold a coherent conversation nevermind string an argument together. Probably one of the stupidest cunts on the forum. Oh look, another diarrhea post from the pedo that's a member of the two digit iq club.
Meaningful avatar gameplay is coming to EVE. All that is missing is at the moment is development time and resources. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
715
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 05:04:00 -
[3159] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Arduemont wrote:Oh look another one's back. Not even much point in talking with Vaju, he can't hold a coherent conversation nevermind string an argument together. Probably one of the stupidest cunts on the forum. Oh look, another diarrhea post from the pedo that's a member of the two digit iq club. Meaningful avatar gameplay is coming to EVE. All that is missing is at the moment is development time and resources. Meaningful avatar gameplay will never come, because without removing the ability to do soemthing from your ship and ship spinning, theres nothing meaningful they could implement in WiS.
The only thing WiS will ever be capable of without negatively impacting existing in-spaceship docked capabilities, or making half the playerbase rage that they CANT do it from the docking screen, is pure socialization, and visual candy. there is unfortuneately little else they could add that is "meaningful" because everything important can ALREADY be done in a quicker and more efficient fashion.
persoanlly i would be OK with pure-socilization aspects of WiS, i enjoyed that in SWG, i enjoyed that during my short time playing STO. Unfortuneately, CCP disagrees with that idea, and would rather put it on permanent backburner waiting for some meaningful gameplay possibility the playerbase wouldnt mind loading into a hallway to do, to poof into existence. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
936
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 05:14:00 -
[3160] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Flamespar wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Arduemont wrote:Oh look another one's back. Not even much point in talking with Vaju, he can't hold a coherent conversation nevermind string an argument together. Probably one of the stupidest cunts on the forum. Oh look, another diarrhea post from the pedo that's a member of the two digit iq club. Meaningful avatar gameplay is coming to EVE. All that is missing is at the moment is development time and resources. Meaningful avatar gameplay will never come, because without removing the ability to do soemthing from your ship and ship spinning, theres nothing meaningful they could implement in WiS. The only thing WiS will ever be capable of without negatively impacting existing in-spaceship docked capabilities, or making half the playerbase rage that they CANT do it from the docking screen, is pure socialization, and visual candy. there is unfortuneately little else they could add that is "meaningful" because everything important can ALREADY be done in a quicker and more efficient fashion. persoanlly i would be OK with pure-socilization aspects of WiS, i enjoyed that in SWG, i enjoyed that during my short time playing STO. Unfortuneately, CCP disagrees with that idea, and would rather put it on permanent backburner waiting for some meaningful gameplay possibility the playerbase wouldnt mind loading into a hallway to do, to poof into existence.
You might want to refer to the original post. There is already a vision for meaningful avatar game play that has already been demonstrated within the company. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
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Anomaly One
77
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 05:46:00 -
[3161] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:
http://goo.gl/Ffpa1p *~~*running my own mission and have some class bully run up and blow me up because they think its funny, then give the excuses that I was just firing fireworks at you*~~* |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1464
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 06:15:00 -
[3162] - Quote
Personally (as programmer) I think "WiS is costly" idea is (to put it mildly) not entirely true since CCP already has developed framework / engine - it's like 80% of all investments needed. Unlike in FiS CCP doesn't have to be careful with implementation of player interactions in WiS i.e. putting new ships into the game require tons of research to predict meta changes while WiS meta doesn't exist and can be almost anything.
P.S. There is high chance 2 new space sandbox games will have WiS in 2014. Can't wait. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
592
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 10:37:00 -
[3163] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Arduemont wrote:Oh look another one's back. Not even much point in talking with Vaju, he can't hold a coherent conversation nevermind string an argument together. Probably one of the stupidest cunts on the forum. Oh look, another diarrhea post from the pedo that's a member of the two digit iq club.
Whereas you're a member of the one digit IQ club, calling someone a pedophile on the forums proves how stupid you are. A glass of water has a higher IQ than you. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2600
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 11:29:00 -
[3164] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Personally (as programmer) I think "WiS is costly" idea is (to put it mildly) not entirely true since CCP already has developed framework / engine - it's like 80% of all investments needed. Unlike in FiS CCP doesn't have to be careful with implementation of player interactions in WiS i.e. putting new ships into the game require tons of research to predict meta changes while WiS meta doesn't exist and can be almost anything.
P.S. There is high chance 2 new space sandbox games will have WiS in 2014. Can't wait.
That's exactly my point. WiS is a blank sheet if they just can keep FiS's complexity away from it, which means it should be "not meaningful" in CCP terms (but meaningful to the people who PAY it).
Yet, let's look at how goes meaningful gameplay: CCP is implementing a meaningful addition for spaceships, aka the Hallelujah Plan and the "Newspace", and yet it's barring 80% of the game from using it straight from the inception. Why?
Because, as the gates to Newspace are destructable, building one requires a highly organized alliance effort able to defend the gate against other alliances.
And such alliances barely represent 20% of the game, being generous. Even the largest of them represents only between 8.75% and 2.33% of the subscribers base (CFC = 35,000 out of 400,000 to 1,500,000 characters).
So, CCP thinks that it's appropiate to devote 3 years to provide content only to 1 in 5 players, with litlte to no chance to attract a different niche of new players, and yet they think it is too costly to implement a kind of content that works even in bad games.
Because, let's remember, even the terribad STO and SWKOR are earning money with their bad content and avatar stuff... which is more than CCP's avatar-based other games can claim, whereas the game they have and which makes them money can't get avatar content because it's too costly after each other pet project gets a piece of the cake. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
328
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 11:54:00 -
[3165] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: That's exactly my point. WiS is a blank sheet if they just can keep FiS's complexity away from it, which means it should be "not meaningful" in CCP terms.
Yet, let's look at how goes meaningful gameplay: CCP is implementing a meaningful addition for spaceships, aka the Hallelujah Plan and the "Newspace", and yet it's barring 80% of the game from using it straight from the inception. Why?
"If a small group of players can't use it, we haven't done our job right" - CCP Fozzie on stargates, EVE Down Under.
The exact question he was asked was if the new gates were something a small group could do or was it only an undertaking big entities - like the CFC - could do. So I guess even if they do implement some form of a stargate that costs as much as fifty titans in minerals to build, smaller groups could still get there in another way.
It's obvious large entities will benefit from it and likely get there first though - it's not CCP's fault either. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1091
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 12:26:00 -
[3166] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:Flamespar wrote:[quote=Vaju Enki]
Meaningful avatar gameplay is coming to EVE. All that is missing is at the moment is development time and resources. Meaningful avatar gameplay will never come, because without removing the ability to do soemthing from your ship and ship spinning, theres nothing meaningful they could implement in WiS. The only thing WiS will ever be capable of without negatively impacting existing in-spaceship docked capabilities, or making half the playerbase rage that they CANT do it from the docking screen, is pure socialization, and visual candy. there is unfortuneately little else they could add that is "meaningful" because everything important can ALREADY be done in a quicker and more efficient fashion. persoanlly i would be OK with pure-socilization aspects of WiS, i enjoyed that in SWG, i enjoyed that during my short time playing STO. Unfortuneately, CCP disagrees with that idea, and would rather put it on permanent backburner waiting for some meaningful gameplay possibility the playerbase wouldnt mind loading into a hallway to do, to poof into existence. You might want to refer to the original post. There is already a vision for meaningful avatar game play that has already been demonstrated within the company.
A cube with a lantern that moves around to other cubes. That's the pinnacle of meaningful gameplay. The Tears Must Flow |
Cpt Tirel
73
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 12:54:00 -
[3167] - Quote
How nice. Comparing WIS with pacman is quite glorious indeed. I think the pinnacle of meaningful gameplay is having fun.
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Naomi Tichim
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
45
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 12:56:00 -
[3168] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Arduemont wrote:Oh look another one's back. Not even much point in talking with Vaju, he can't hold a coherent conversation nevermind string an argument together. Probably one of the stupidest cunts on the forum. Oh look, another diarrhea post from the pedo that's a member of the two digit iq club. Both of you, cut it out.
Quote: persoanlly i would be OK with pure-socilization aspects of WiS, i enjoyed that in SWG, i enjoyed that during my short time playing STO. Unfortuneately, CCP disagrees with that idea, and would rather put it on permanent backburner waiting for some meaningful gameplay possibility the playerbase wouldnt mind loading into a hallway to do, to poof into existence.
Mostly on account of how much effort is required to make it work. CCP doesn't think it would be worth it just for the socialization aspect. |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 13:03:00 -
[3169] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: And, as for meaningful avatar gameplay... this thread has shown many times that the definition of "meaningful" should be left to the players willing to pay for WiS.
You are truly more of a troll than Rhes and Vaju combined.
Vaju Enki wrote:A cube with a lantern that moves around to other cubes. That's the pinnacle of meaningful gameplay. Don't go there Vaju, don't even go there; 'cause EVE is just spheres that moves around to other spheres. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2603
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 13:40:00 -
[3170] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: That's exactly my point. WiS is a blank sheet if they just can keep FiS's complexity away from it, which means it should be "not meaningful" in CCP terms.
Yet, let's look at how goes meaningful gameplay: CCP is implementing a meaningful addition for spaceships, aka the Hallelujah Plan and the "Newspace", and yet it's barring 80% of the game from using it straight from the inception. Why?
"If a small group of players can't use it, we haven't done our job right" - CCP Fozzie on stargates, EVE Down Under.(...)
Translation: "You will be able to ally with and/or rent access to Newspace from the Goons; we have all angles covered, you silly you!"
Quote:The exact question he was asked was if the new gates were something a small group could do or was it only an undertaking big entities - like the CFC - could do. So I guess even if they do implement some form of a stargate that costs as much as fifty titans in minerals to build, smaller groups could still get there in another way.
See, if there are two ways to go there, and one is terribly expensive and the other is readily accesible to small players, why will anyone bother with the hard way?
How many nullsec industrialists bother with nullsec industry? Why bother building a gate to Newspace worth trillions or whatever, if there is a "small guy access" to it? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
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Mystraena
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.11.30 15:41:00 -
[3171] - Quote
One possible way to implement meaningful avatar gameplay is...integrate Dust with Eve on PC, allow the same character to train both Dust/Eve, and play both straight from the client.
Then add more Dust gameplay that impact Eve.
There you go, avatar gameplay that has some meanings, and Dust514 is saved!
CCP insistence on making Dust514 as PS3 exclusive is what I don't understand... |
Mysttina
Alpha Spectres
4
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 16:10:00 -
[3172] - Quote
Mystraena wrote:One possible way to implement meaningful avatar gameplay is...integrate Dust with Eve on PC, allow the same character to train both Dust/Eve, and play both straight from the client.
Then add more Dust gameplay that impact Eve.
There you go, avatar gameplay that has some meanings, and Dust514 is saved!
CCP insistence on making Dust514 as PS3 exclusive is what I don't understand...
Doubt it will happen though. Current WIS and Dust514 are using different engine and CCP has spent considerable investment in both of them.
I do agree that Dust514 and WIS could have been same thing from the beginning. Possibly as a result from Greed is Good mantra from that time. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
308
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Posted - 2013.11.30 20:28:00 -
[3173] - Quote
Sadly, we've seen this too often where a new game play style might be developed at the cost of developing more toys for major alliances. Then a bunch of alliances spread BS on the forums, round up an mob with pitchforks and torches, and go burn parts of Jita down.
We will never see WiS. We will never see COSMOS taken anywhere, we will never see an actual POS overhaul, or any number of things that the players have been demanding almost since day 1 in some cases. Instead we've had a long train of things that are only to the benefit of major alliances. This latest expansion has been a massive circle jerk for the nullsec alliances and CCP, and this announcement of building one's own stargates to newspace being effectively a nullsec allliance only toy? **** that.
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
12697
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 21:06:00 -
[3174] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Sadly, we've seen this too often where a new game play style might be developed at the cost of developing more toys for major alliances. Then a bunch of alliances spread BS on the forums, round up an mob with pitchforks and torches, and go burn parts of Jita down.
We will never see WiS. We will never see COSMOS taken anywhere, we will never see an actual POS overhaul, or any number of things that the players have been demanding almost since day 1 in some cases. Instead we've had a long train of things that are only to the benefit of major alliances. This latest expansion has been a massive circle jerk for the nullsec alliances and CCP, and this announcement of building one's own stargates to newspace being effectively a nullsec allliance only toy? **** that.
This was nothing to do with "alliances".
1 Kings 12:11
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2610
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Posted - 2013.11.30 23:28:00 -
[3175] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Sadly, we've seen this too often where a new game play style might be developed at the cost of developing more toys for major alliances. Then a bunch of alliances spread BS on the forums, round up an mob with pitchforks and torches, and go burn parts of Jita down.
We will never see WiS. We will never see COSMOS taken anywhere, we will never see an actual POS overhaul, or any number of things that the players have been demanding almost since day 1 in some cases. Instead we've had a long train of things that are only to the benefit of major alliances. This latest expansion has been a massive circle jerk for the nullsec alliances and CCP, and this announcement of building one's own stargates to newspace being effectively a nullsec allliance only toy? **** that. This was nothing to do with "alliances".
To be honest, The Mittani was in favor of Incarna two months before it was delivered.
He was not the only one to have a disgusting surprise when it actually launched, of course. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
731
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 23:29:00 -
[3176] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Personally (as programmer) I think "WiS is costly" idea is (to put it mildly) not entirely true since CCP already has developed framework / engine - it's like 80% of all investments needed. Unlike in FiS CCP doesn't have to be careful with implementation of player interactions in WiS i.e. putting new ships into the game require tons of research to predict meta changes while WiS meta doesn't exist and can be almost anything.
P.S. There is high chance 2 new space sandbox games will have WiS in 2014. Can't wait.
Yes, this too.
So-called "FiS" is old, solid and in deepth developed. Needs fixes, tuning, mantainence, improvements, but in general works fine.
Proble is that being so in deepth and devleoped across 10 years is also harder to expand. Even small adds (like new ships) requires tons of balancements and nerfs and so on. Any major improvement risk to break some core mechanics and requires an huge effort (and costs). In fact CCP avoid to do anything relevan in the FiS area.
On the countrary WIS is one of those EVE improvements (not the only one) that could allow to expand the EVE universe and add brand new options with no risk to mess the existing gameplay.
Tweaking, fixing, small improvements, this is all good and needed, but it only caters to a playerbase that is already fine with the game, do not expand the gameplay nor the playerbase: I don't see someone that never played EVE willing to give a try because "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed, I've to try this game" nor I see an old player coming back because "wow, they nerfing T3, I've to come back to EVE"
The point is if one think that EVE have to grow or not. Actually CCP money seems to be more on a rush to find other games more than on trusting EVE for the future.
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
731
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 23:33:00 -
[3177] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:To be honest, The Mittani was in favor of Incarna two months before it was delivered. He was not the only one to have a disgusting surprise when it actually launched, of course.
May I... don't be too much in hurry to judge. Only bracuse 2-3 idiots of them post **** on the forum doesn't mean they are all a bunch of mental retards. Even if some of their forum poster works hard to make it look so. |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
247
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Posted - 2013.12.01 00:09:00 -
[3178] - Quote
2 personal attack posts were removed.
Forum rule 4. Personal attacks are prohibited. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
247
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Posted - 2013.12.01 00:22:00 -
[3179] - Quote
Off-topic post removed.
Forum rule 26. Off-topic posting is prohibited. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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Alice Saki
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
100572
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Posted - 2013.12.01 00:26:00 -
[3180] - Quote
Still Waiting.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2613
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 12:09:00 -
[3181] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Still Waiting.
Alice... your hair! The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2613
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 12:44:00 -
[3182] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Lipbite wrote:Personally (as programmer) I think "WiS is costly" idea is (to put it mildly) not entirely true since CCP already has developed framework / engine - it's like 80% of all investments needed. Unlike in FiS CCP doesn't have to be careful with implementation of player interactions in WiS i.e. putting new ships into the game require tons of research to predict meta changes while WiS meta doesn't exist and can be almost anything.
P.S. There is high chance 2 new space sandbox games will have WiS in 2014. Can't wait. Yes, this too. So-called "FiS" is old, solid and in deepth developed. Needs fixes, tuning, mantainence, improvements, but in general works fine. Proble is that being so in deepth and devleoped across 10 years is also harder to expand. Even small adds (like new ships) requires tons of balancements and nerfs and so on. Any major improvement risk to break some core mechanics and requires an huge effort (and costs). In fact CCP avoid to do anything relevan in the FiS area. On the countrary WIS is one of those EVE improvements (not the only one) that could allow to expand the EVE universe and add brand new options with no risk to mess the existing gameplay. Tweaking, fixing, small improvements, this is all good and needed, but it only caters to a playerbase that is already fine with the game, do not expand the gameplay nor the playerbase: I don't see someone that never played EVE willing to give a try because "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed, I've to try this game" nor I see an old player coming back because "wow, they nerfing T3, I've to come back to EVE" The point is if one think that EVE have to grow or not. Actually CCP money seems to be more on a rush to find other games more than on trusting EVE for the future.
The worst that WiS could do for FiS, would be that it was so *awesome* that people stopped playing the FiS side and FiS resented from lower population. But then, lower population is exactly where FiS is heading. EVE as a game tells to most of the new players "go away", and it's been running out of new players for a while.
The new players may go away on the spot or may go away two to three years later, once they get stuck in the wrong side of the game, but the fact is that there is only one way to become a long time player and that way is purely accidental as it relies on uninformed choices and sheer randomness.
You must find the right people, who do the right thing, and pick them from the background noise of 90% of wrong people doing the wrong things. Many are the called and few the chosen, and so in case that you become a long-lasting player, you can be proud of it... but in the process of becoming the chosen, CCP has dismissed 10 guys whe weren't like you, and also has lost their money.
All that is so embedded in the existing core game, that it can't be changed. The FiS core game is what it is, and it's so complex after 10 years that every litle change risks a landslide of angry veterans. It doesn't takes 6 months to restat a ship, it takes 6 months to restat a ship against all other 400 types. And the more it goes, the harder it si to just stay in place, let alone try to grow.
So if FiS is not growing and can't sustain CCP, then CCP haves two paths: add not-FiS to EVE and make it grow again, or dismiss EVE growth and find a replacement.
And they're going the later way. The fact that they swear and vow to do only FiS with the less and less people left as they're transfered to other projects should be clear enough. It turns that 60% of the last expansions were made by litherally 6 developers - CCP Fozzie & friends. What is doing everyone else? WoD, DUST, Valkyrie, backend recoding and mobile apps.
And then they state that, oh, avatars are too costly for EVE. Yes. It will be more costly when CCP employees start getting "Thank you but you're fired" letters because it was too costly to draw in new players to EVE from a shrinking niche and against serious competition.
MS Crowd Control Productions had a almost lethal encounter with the Incarna lows, and it's been taking water ever since. In the long run, it will be the slow leaking of its battered hull what will sink it, rather than the dramatic leak open after the crash. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Solops Crendraven
Solops Mining
7
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 16:27:00 -
[3183] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Back at the end of February CCP t0rfifrans announced Team Avatar and that one of our priorities was prototyping, specifically to: "...create playable gameplay prototypes of gameplay features and try them out within the team, and within the company... The purpose of all this prototyping is to make sure we provide a strong vision for avatar gameplay, have a good demonstrable idea of why it is engaging and better understand the technology we will need to create in order to make it a reality." The prototype itself has been finished and has been presented internally to the company stakeholders, the CSM and finally to the company as a whole. The feedback from that was overwhelmingly positive. So on to the information! Extra-Vehicular Activity, Wrecks and ExplorationThere has been an idea kicking around CCP for a long time now about an ideal starting point for avatar gameplay. That is exploring hazardous environments in order to get awesome stuff. Think scanning down a site before entering it in order to find and salvage artifacts, technology and other goodies. Sounds straightforward and it would be but for the dangerous nature of delving into long lost places where time has taken its toll on the structure and the previous owners may not have left things in a benign state. In true EVE style throw in the added dangers of lurking competition and things have a chance to go south fast. The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few. Over three months we concentrated on the minute by minute gameplay of actually being inside a long abandoned structure, the hazards that it would contain and how the players might deal with them and any uninvited guests. We used the Unity engine which is a great game engine for prototyping in as it lets us create environments and gameplay very, very fast and iterate on it equally quickly. A lot of our art is much more abstract (a "grey box") than youGÇÖd see in a final game. This is due to us concentrating on the gameplay first and foremost whilst also recognizing that ambience plays an important role in how a game feels. We do throw in the occasional EVE asset here and there for flavor but those are not descriptive of any final theming or style. The gameplay premise is simple, players move through our abandoned structures with their fitted Extra-Vehicular Activity suit, using their wits, tools and teammates to deal with the hazardous environment. Some of us are enthusiastically and maliciously killing teammates for personal gain. WeGÇÖve even allowed two teams into the environment to really let all hell break loose. ItGÇÖs a part of the EVE UniverseThere have been a lot of questions on the forums about how this integrates with EVE. Whilst this isnGÇÖt the core focus for us at the moment it is something we are thinking about long and hard. Like DUST514, this part of EVE should contribute to the overall economy as well as supporting its own ecosystem. Right now weGÇÖre thinking that these abandoned structures are so dangerous, radioactive and toxic, that they can only be entered with special suits. Obviously with access to clones you arenGÇÖt worried about radiation and long term health effects of hazardous lifestyles. You probably all smoke and eat lots of bacon as well and besides robots wonGÇÖt survive the violent EM fields. Robot electronics would toast, thus only teams using gear that involves crude electronics, like found in EM resistant military hardware can go in and recover the technology that lies within. One example of a link with EVE gameplay weGÇÖre thinking of would be to put implant manufacture into the hands of players and making avatar gameplay part of the resource gathering chain it has. We want to make Avatar gameplay a viable and vibrant part of the Universe without forcing anyone that doesnGÇÖt want to use it from having to use it. A benefit from the EVA game is that a lot of the technology that would need to be developed to properly deliver the EVA experience would be directly useful in providing social areas and tools in stations. That just sounds like one idea...We decided to concentrate in depth on the one idea that has kept resurfacing from lots of different places within the company. WeGÇÖve had several others and collected a lot both internally and from the forums. One example would be a Station based espionage system. The beauty of the EVE Universe is that these ideas arenGÇÖt mutually exclusive for the most part. So whilst I think we are fairly sure of the initial gameplay direction there is lots of scope for expansion. Excellent idea it would make the game more immersive than it already is.
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Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 16:32:00 -
[3184] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote: Tweaking, fixing, small improvements, this is all good and needed, but it only caters to a playerbase that is already fine with the game, do not expand the gameplay nor the playerbase: I don't see someone that never played EVE willing to give a try because "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed, I've to try this game" nor I see an old player coming back because "wow, they nerfing T3, I've to come back to EVE"
I completely disagree.
I unsubbed about 2 months after Odyssey hit TQ, 'cause it is probably the weakest expansion CCP did in my opinion. And came back after reading "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed" and about CCP's poorly planned, but still interesting event.
And yes, I think Rubicon is a solid expansion, so kudos to CCP for it. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2616
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 17:22:00 -
[3185] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote: Tweaking, fixing, small improvements, this is all good and needed, but it only caters to a playerbase that is already fine with the game, do not expand the gameplay nor the playerbase: I don't see someone that never played EVE willing to give a try because "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed, I've to try this game" nor I see an old player coming back because "wow, they nerfing T3, I've to come back to EVE"
I completely disagree. I unsubbed about 2 months after Odyssey hit TQ, 'cause it is probably the weakest expansion CCP did in my opinion. And came back after reading "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed" and about CCP's poorly planned, but still interesting event. And yes, I think Rubicon is a solid expansion, so kudos to CCP for it.
I think you missed a important line:
I don't see someone that never played EVE willing to give a try because "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed, I've to try this game"
Maybe you should look at Rubicon with the eyes of a non-player?
>>Mobile structures: Houm... sounds cool, but have no clue of what do they mean. Ghost Sites: oh, nice! That sounds like dungeons, dungeons are cool! Sisters of EVE faction ships: huh... more ships? Didn't that game have like, hundreds of ships? Guerrilla style warfare: Whaaat? Hi-Sec Customs Offices: Whaaat? Warp changes: So, ships are faster or what? Were they too slow or what? ISIS your personal guide to ships of EVE: wow, that's cool! Certificate overhaul: certificates? Are those like achievements? Achievements are cool! Rebalancing and roles: oh come on, I can't even name a single ship of that game... Character screen update: oh. Additional features: oh.
So, after Rubicon you should try EVE because...
- it has got new dungeons! - it has got a ships guide! - it has got a new achievements system!>>
(Warning: two of the above are serious misunderstandings of what is really going on)
There is no wonder that the game stagnates despite the ever increasing marketing expense. Starships & spreadsheets alone are not enough.
Incarna was a medicine the game needed to heal its conditions. Instead of that, Incarna poisoned the game... but the conditions persist, and Incarna, properly formulated and delivered, still is the cure. Delaying it by God knows how many years is a luxury the game can't afford. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
1203
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 17:43:00 -
[3186] - Quote
I agree with Ishtanchuk. Tweaking and rebalancing are great and should be an ongoing priority but, where is the fresh content? What new and exciting feature(s) have CCP rolled out lately that would encourage someone who's never played to want to subscribe? We really haven't gotten any major additions of fresh content or game play since wormholes were introduced.
It's time for CCP to come out of "Post-Incarna Traumatic Syndrome" and give us something bold and fresh along with iteration. Having the industry's coolest forum portrait generator and re-hashing of old content just aren't very compelling reasons to shell out $15 a month. When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around. |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.12.01 20:37:00 -
[3187] - Quote
EVE needs WiS. New players are afraid of even trying the 21 day trail, lol. They see it as a chore, haha. Games should never feel like a chore, and offer alternatives so the simple folk can have some fun too. If the goal is to get more new players to the game then WiS is simply the easiest method. :-) |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 23:49:00 -
[3188] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I think you missed a important line:
I don't see someone that never played EVE willing to give a try because "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed, I've to try this game"
I was referring to last part of the post:
"nor I see an old player coming back because "wow, they nerfing T3, I've to come back to EVE"".
I am this old player Sura Sadiva wrote about, I re-subbed because "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed, I've to come back to EVE" (and CCP's event) literally.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Maybe you should look at Rubicon with the eyes of a non-player?
Are you sure that this player you are talking about are "EVE material" so to say. Player that you are talking about never searched for EVE game experience in the first place.
So maybe I should look at Rubicon with the eyes of a non-eve player and a person who is searching for the sandbox experience.
Let's start:
Mobile structures: Sounds cool, I will go and read about it on the main page: "fitting facilities and storage space"; "last for weeks"; "ideal for personal ops"; Are you telling me I will have my own portable little station/base? This is awesome!
Ghost Sites: Oh, nice and sounds cool! Something about hacking, exploring and pirates. Interesting, I would definitely want to try it when I'll subscribe.
Sisters of EVE faction ships: More ships? Didn't that game have like, hundreds of ships? So wait, wait a minute ... now I will have even more options to choose from. Awesome, I will certainly find something I would love to fly.
Guerrilla style warfare: Need to check expansion page again: "disrupt production and steal materials from Player-owned Structures" Ok ... can steal from old and wealthy players now, right? hehe up yours vets!
Hi-Sec Customs Offices: Whaaat? What is this Customs Offices they are talking about? I better check main page, 'cause I want to learn what I can do in this game. "ship goods down to the planet surface"; "blow up the InterBus office and build your own in its place"; "to keep collecting taxes " I can build my own stuff and connect it to a planet to have space/planet economy of some sort and then tax it? That sounds complex and interesting unlike any other game I have ever played.
Warp changes: So, ships are faster or what? "Small ships will now reach speed and decelerate faster, with the opposite holding true for the lumbering beasts at the other end of the spectrum." So, what is small - will be faster and what is huge - will be slower, just like in rl. cool!
ISIS your personal guide to ships of EVE: wow, that's cool! Apparently EVE is not so hard!
Certificate overhaul: Certificates? Going to check what those are on Rubicon's expansion page. "to aid in planning out what skills you need to achieve your goals" lol, I heard people say that EVE is hard to learn, but how can it be when you have certificates. (certs are still useless =/ imho) (btw. game achievements are horrible!)
Rebalancing and roles: "Marauders"; "Interceptors"; "Electronic Attack Ships"; "Electronic Attack Ships" I have no idea what they're talking about, but "improved and role expanded" sounds good.
Character screen update: Oh ... ooook. Facelift for an old system I guess.
Additional features: "Graphics and Sound" for a 10 year old game it looks fantastic.
So, after Rubicon you should try EVE if you...
- are looking for a sandbox mmo. - want to have your little portable base - want to explore new dangerous and challenging sites - like space ships and think that more options is better than less - want to be a space thief/robinhood - want your own space/planet economy thingy - think that bigger = slower and smaller = faster actually makes sense - thought you would be lost without a sensible guide in all those ship choices before
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:and Incarna, properly formulated and delivered, still is the cure. Not with comments like "definition of "meaningful" should be left to the players willing to pay for WiS." it isn't.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Delaying it for God knows how many years is a luxury the game can't afford. Luxury the game can't afford is implementing more unfinished and poorly thought out features.
You don't build a second floor of your house when foundation are crumbling, windows seems crooked and walls are about to fall down.
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Eli Green
The Arrow Project
791
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 01:25:00 -
[3189] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Luxury the game can't afford is implementing more unfinished and poorly thought out features.
>Implying that fans of WiS want an unfinished/poorly thought out implementation of it. wumbo |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
731
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 01:45:00 -
[3190] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote: I am this old player Sura Sadiva wrote about, I re-subbed because "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed, I've to come back to EVE" (and CCP's event) literally.
And we're all glad of this.
However here we were trying to make some point about the game development and future more than about someone personal experience. Anyway thank you for sharing.
Now if we check the "All Time (weekly average)" stats we notice this:
EVE has a steady growth from the beginning till about 2007. Then we have a stronger growth roughly coincident with the Trinity - Apocrypha (2009) expansions (some of the best expansions ever).
After this the players stabilize with peaks and fall but always around 30-35k average. There's no more growth, what changed? CCP started to reroute resources from EVE and focused on something else (Dust was officially announced in 2009); CCP is not SOny, or Blizzard, so to focus on all these new projects: Dust, WoD, a brand new avatar engine, recently Valkyrie, they had to progressively reduce the effort on EVE till a life-support (only tweaks, minor changes, needed fixes).
As the gameplay stopped to expand so did the playerbase, the up and down we see in the stats are mostly the same pool of players, with the ususal increase on activity after an expansion release, the down again and so on.
The point is not if tweaks, fixes, micro-balanced are good, of course they are, and we should stop stating the obvious; the point is if they're alone enough to push a growth. The stats show the countrary. Despite any personal case.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2627
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Posted - 2013.12.02 07:52:00 -
[3191] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:and Incarna, properly formulated and delivered, still is the cure. Not with comments like "definition of "meaningful" should be left to the players willing to pay for WiS." it isn't.
So according to you, features are not intended to please those who pay for them? You should warn CCP, they're wasting a lot of dev time talking to players, while according to you they should just shove their ideas down the player's throats more than they already do.
Quote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Delaying it for God knows how many years is a luxury the game can't afford. Luxury the game can't afford is implementing more unfinished and poorly thought out features. You don't build a second floor of your house when foundation are crumbling, windows seems crooked and walls are about to fall down.
It's not exactly wise to invest in a improved fidelization program and refurbishing the rooms when your hotel is emptying because 90% of your potential customers never make it past the hall and you're known for being old and riddled with meanies.
Also it is unwise to start building other hotels while your property is in desperate need of a larger share of the income it generates. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.12.02 08:06:00 -
[3192] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I think you missed a important line:
I don't see someone that never played EVE willing to give a try because "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed, I've to try this game"
I was referring to last part of the post: "nor I see an old player coming back because "wow, they nerfing T3, I've to come back to EVE"".I am this old player Sura Sadiva wrote about, I re-subbed because "oh wow, now they changing the warp speed, I've to come back to EVE" (and CCP's event) literally. Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Maybe you should look at Rubicon with the eyes of a non-player?
Are you sure that this player you are talking about is "EVE material" so to say. Player that you are talking about never searched for EVE game experience in the first place. So maybe I should look at Rubicon with the eyes of a non-eve player and a person who is searching for the sandbox experience. Let's start: Mobile structures: Sounds cool, I will go and read about it on the main page: "fitting facilities and storage space"; "last for weeks"; "ideal for personal ops"; Are you telling me I will have my own portable little station/base? This is awesome! Ghost Sites: Oh, nice and sounds cool! Something about hacking, exploring and pirates. Interesting, I would definitely want to try it when I'll subscribe. Sisters of EVE faction ships: More ships? Didn't that game have like, hundreds of ships? So wait, wait a minute ... now I will have even more options to choose from. Awesome, I will certainly find something I would love to fly. Guerrilla style warfare: Need to check expansion page again: "disrupt production and steal materials from Player-owned Structures" Ok ... can steal from old and wealthy players now, right? hehe up yours vets! Hi-Sec Customs Offices: Whaaat? What is this Customs Offices they are talking about? I better check main page, 'cause I want to learn what I can do in this game. "ship goods down to the planet surface"; "blow up the InterBus office and build your own in its place"; "to keep collecting taxes " I can build my own stuff and connect it to a planet to have space/planet economy of some sort and then tax it? That sounds complex and interesting unlike any other game I have ever played. Warp changes: So, ships are faster or what? "Small ships will now reach speed and decelerate faster, with the opposite holding true for the lumbering beasts at the other end of the spectrum." So, what is small - will be faster and what is huge - will be slower, just like in rl. cool! ISIS your personal guide to ships of EVE: wow, that's cool! Apparently EVE is not so hard! Certificate overhaul: Certificates? Going to check what those are on Rubicon's expansion page. "to aid in planning out what skills you need to achieve your goals" lol, I heard people say that EVE is hard to learn, but how can it be when you have certificates. (certs are still useless =/ imho) (btw. game achievements are horrible!) Rebalancing and roles: "Marauders"; "Interceptors"; "Electronic Attack Ships"; "Electronic Attack Ships" I have no idea what they're talking about, but "improved and role expanded" sounds good. Character screen update: Oh ... ooook. Facelift for an old system I guess. Additional features: "Graphics and Sound" for a 10 year old game it looks fantastic.
This is slightly biased m8. I've shown the specs for Rubicon to some of the possible new pilots that I try to recruit, and none of them seem to really grasp what the changes are. Maybe that makes them unsuitable to even start playing EVE...but it also raises the question if EVE needs something more then just spaceships and spreadsheets.
For instance the customs office overhaul is a total mystery to them. ISIS was simply recieved as another extra spreadsheet (while we know better of course :-) ). The warp changes didn't do much since those people didn't have anything to compare it with, and if you start fresh now...you wouldn't know the difference anyway. That goes for most of the new features. If you haven't played EVE before, you wouldn't know the difference.
Don't get me wrong, I love Rubicon. It's just not an expansion that can get those new players playing EVE. It just services the current and established pilots that already know how the game works.
The avatar creation system is one of the best ones out there, if not...THE best. But at it's current state it could easy just be replaced with a picture select system. It has no other function then the picture you see above my name on the boards atm, and to me...that is a waste. Why even tempt the players with a captain quarters if that door is going to be closed untill EVE II arrives.
People that play MMO's love making their avatars. But new players of EVE feel a bit cheated after they spend 30 minutes creating it. From a programmer's viewpoint I can see problems regarding netcode and what will happen if say you have too many of these Hres characters running around in a station, but it's far from impossible to pull off. If I had a say I would start with making a boardroom were CEO's and their flock can arrange meetings etc, with a cap limit of say 16 players. Start off small and slowly build towards gambeling / trade / leisure spots and other lore expanding traits. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
332
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 08:56:00 -
[3193] - Quote
What Odyssey and Rubicon have improved is retention of newbies. Since Crucible, a new pilot has become increasingly more useful in the field. Most T1 ships don't suck anymore, you can be useful in your week one in an Incursus, Merlin, Slasher, Condor, Atron... you name it. Month-two in maybe you can get into a solid cruiser with decent support skills.
Prior to that there seemed to be only one frigate: Rifter. While in a fleet you'd be able to swing it with meta, solo pretty much required you to have T2 guns since the Rifter had to have range control over an enemy (+week of training time before you can pvp). Oh and support skills, including AWU. Add another week. And better start thinking about earning money pal, because that will set you back 10 million and you will lose it to a pirate in five minutes. Have the money to buy five and lose them... fifty mil, how much is that in L1 missions? Or mining?
Since Odyssey, newbie explorers have become commonplace as well - those guys can pull that fifty million out of low/null using a frigate that costs less than a million. That beats running L1/L2 missions, mining in a belt and gets people to earn money quickly. Moreover, it actually gets them into the right mindset: if I go out into ~the dangerzone~ and am smart, ballsy enough to make it out of there alive - I may earn a lot of money! Risk = reward! Fortune favors the bold!
Retention is good. Setting the right mindset, "those who risk can profit or die trying" is good. Getting more new players is also a good idea, every game needs to grow, but you also need to keep them. You're not going to keep them by replacing solid, balanced mechanics with shoddily implemented WiS, full of promises "it will be good one day!" Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 09:13:00 -
[3194] - Quote
Nobody said it should be done "shoddy"
All the things you pointed out is not enough to pickup new players, and the number of players today kinda reflect this. Yes there has been allot of new features that support the role of the newbie, but does this reflect in an increase in players over the last few months?
WiS has little effect on FiS if implemented in a delicate and propper way. Expanding on it should not be rushed and possibly spread out over several expansions, like the changes to FiS imo.
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Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
332
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 10:25:00 -
[3195] - Quote
Currently made changes to FiS are balancing. Balancing consists of Fozzie, Rise and a bunch of test dummies on a test server cooking up a way to make a ship good without breaking it.
WiS is a massive technical undertaking, and there are more pressing matters on the table. It can't be slowly implemented over the course of several expansions - while content for it may be, someone has to write a functional backend for it. Currently there likely is no backend - WiS is a clientside interface.
You'd have to pull devs away from the promised POS revamp and "war on lag" to do it. Neglect of those matters (promises and issues that lingered from since before Incarna, mind you) was what contributed in a major way to the Summer of Rage.
As I said - yeah, maybe the idea of walking around in a station may attract a few people. But then you need them to stay and progress through the game, enjoy it (...and start alts, possibly, what's EVE without alts) then take part in the stories that make it popular. If the game has literally no content besides running around doing nothing, it'll be a short trip for them - especially when it comes to a lengthy game like this one.
There's one saying about EVE I heard a lot, "It's more fun to hear stories about than actually play." - CCP seems to be working on changing that fact. And good. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
731
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 10:43:00 -
[3196] - Quote
Oh and let me add about this:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Luxury the game can't afford is implementing more unfinished and poorly thought out features.
You don't build a second floor of your house when foundation are crumbling, windows seems crooked and walls are about to fall down.
Here I agree with you, but we're talking about finish some unfinished and poorly implemented feature. WiS IS part of EVE fundation design, since the very beginning of this game.
There're 3 major fail expansions: Dominion, Incursions, Incarna. All these expansions tried to adress a specific core weakness in EVE gameplay: territorial warefare and gameplay (Dominion), lack of a decent PVE (Incursions), Player "housing" and avatar gameplay (Incarna).
These 3 expansion faild - for different reasons - to deliver what strongly asked by the players and needed for the gameplay. If CCP did it wrong and faild to deliver doesn't means that those needs are satisfated or vanished; still today all the major weaknes actually in EVE gameplay are directly or indirectly related to this areas.
CCP should go back to work just on the critical areas where they faild and fix/iterate/rewrite; is fundation, is stragegic/long term stuff. And who love should try to consider not only what is good for our personal idea of gameplay becuase such approach is not going to work.
Everyone understand as working on these 3 areas of the game is "hard". But is hard only cause CCP is focused on something else, move allt he resources from Dust, Valkirye and WoD back to EVE and you'd be surprise to discover what CCP can do in a 6 months cycle.
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
1509
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 11:06:00 -
[3197] - Quote
Couple days ago on Reddit someone posted thread "what would you want in EVE 2?" Most upvoted answer was "doors that works".
It's interesting how community finally settled with idea how WiS is not only interesting but a must have feature for a sci-fi game (despite devs' attempts to persuade community how EVE is "cheap spaceships PvP only"). |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
219
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 13:29:00 -
[3198] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: WiS is a massive technical undertaking, and there are more pressing matters on the table. It can't be slowly implemented over the course of several expansions - while content for it may be, someone has to write a functional backend for it. Currently there likely is no backend - WiS is a clientside interface.
You'd have to pull devs away from the promised POS revamp and "war on lag" to do it. Neglect of those matters (promises and issues that lingered from since before Incarna, mind you) was what contributed in a major way to the Summer of Rage.
On the contrary, because Eve has a long complicated legacy back end, new content is easier to develop. As we see with the release of the new deployables that will (or so we are told) replace the old POS system. Avatar content is a blank state. When dealing with lots of old legacy code, starting from fresh is easier.
As for having to pull devs away from Eve things. This has already happened in favor of things no one in Eve will benefit from. You would still complain if devs came back from those projects to work on avatar content, and you would probably also fail to see the hypocrisy of your whining.
Trii Seo wrote:If the game has literally no content besides running around doing nothing, it'll be a short trip for them. Everyone has made it clear that they don't want this. Why do you even bring it up? This thread itself is literally testament to people not wanting that. It is the entire purpose of this thread for that not to happen. |
Anomaly One
90
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 13:37:00 -
[3199] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Couple days ago on Reddit someone posted thread "what would you want in EVE 2?" Most upvoted answer was "doors that works".
It's interesting how community finally settled with idea how WiS is not only interesting but a must have feature for a sci-fi game (despite devs' attempts to persuade community how EVE is "cheap spaceships PvP only").
Interesting idd, maybe a cause of this is SC? EVE players saw the hangars and said "oh I want one gimme gimme gimme!" (for the record I think WiS WHEN -not if- properly implemented in EvE will outclass it)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: woah
and I COMPLETELY agree with this, you know how many new players you will draw in CCP if you made a whole expansion on WiS and made it's trailer accordingly?
although CCP can implement it with just small iterations every now and then.. it would be better to make it into it's own full expansion with its proper advertisements this will get more players to try EVE when they see it (small changes would go unnoticed except to the current playerbase)
I heard you like visions ? well get to it! WiS can be soooo much more if you just start working on it, and if you think about it it's much more logical to start working on WiS NOW since SC is coming out, NEW PLAYERS ARE MORE INTERESTED IN THIS THAN NEW SPACE!! (seriously what does new space mean for new players?) you need something more to draw them in at first.
1.implement WiS 2. Obliterate SC (sc players will cry, can't we have what EVE HAS!!!) 3. laugh maniaclly as an influx of new players trys out EVE and hilmar bathes in $$$ 4. Continue developing more space 5.??? 6. Profit
Trust me CCP, i'm an Anomaly *~~*running my own mission and have some class bully run up and blow me up because they think its funny, then give the excuses that I was just firing fireworks at you*~~* |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2629
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 13:57:00 -
[3200] - Quote
Hemi DarkStar wrote:(...)
The avatar creation system is one of the best ones out there, if not...THE best. But at it's current state it could easy just be replaced with a picture select system. It has no other function then the picture you see above my name on the boards atm, and to me...that is a waste. Why even tempt the players with a captain quarters if that door is going to be closed untill EVE II arrives.
People that play MMO's love making their avatars. But new players of EVE feel a bit cheated after they spend 30 minutes creating it. From a programmer's viewpoint I can see problems regarding netcode and what will happen if say you have too many of these Hres characters running around in a station, but it's far from impossible to pull off. If I had a say I would start with making a boardroom were CEO's and their flock can arrange meetings etc, with a cap limit of say 16 players. Start off small and slowly build towards gambeling / trade / leisure spots and other lore expanding traits.
Well, there was a interesting litle patch note with Odyssey 1.1., here it is:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-odyssey-1.1
Quote: New players will be placed either in the Captain's Quarters or in the hangar when starting into the game. This will help researching the impact of the start location for new players.
We are left to wonder whether they mean it as "looking for a reason to expand the CQ" or "looking for a reason to get rid of the CQ", though.
Daydreaming, we can think of what could be the NPE if the new player spawned at the CQ, and Aura told him to walk to the balcony and said: "this is your first ship, it is called a (insert name). Opening this tab (points it), you can check its contents; you will see, it is already armed with a civilian weapon. Civilian weapons do not require a specific skill to use them, whereas more powerful weapons need them. To check your skills..."
And all the while the noob is looking at his avatar, understanding how this is a game about human who fly ships... and more things to come if CCP gets their sh*t right. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
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Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 14:21:00 -
[3201] - Quote
I always start in the CQ. Did so from the start. For me it's a matter of immersion. I think I only started the hanger 2 times by accident lol.
Atm the avatar radiates a sense of loneliness and gives you the feeling that the vastness of space outside is a dangerous place. Standing in front of your ship looks so badass, just imagine if you could share this with your corp friends. Or just sit and watch the screens while chatting away on a slow night.
It doesn't have to have all the crazy gambeling disco dancing stuff like in other MMO's. Eve's avatar leisuring could simply be Corp meetings, or visiting a friend in his CQ. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
311
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 14:29:00 -
[3202] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: This was nothing to do with "alliances".
Malcanis, rather bluntly, yes it was. I watched major alliances in a foot race to try and sew up Plasma worlds in PI, Of the things released this expansion, the only one that did not benefit Alliances, particularly low and null sec ones, more than anyone else, was the tractor beam deployable.
Ghost site spawns seem to be overwhelmingly nullsec (latest estimates I've seen were 4-5 sites across the entirety of Empire at any one time, vs 6 or more per nullsec region).
The new ship is available more cheaply in null sec (meaning 'to goonswarm' in this case) .
The new depot deployable heavily nerfs solo pvp in low and null sec in favor of large gangs. The other one penalizes unwatched POS moon sites. Now these do have uses for players other than Alliances, don't get me wrong, but the biggest benefit is theirs.
And this has been going on for years.
If you stop and look at the numbers, something like 1/5th of EvE players are in a nullsec alliance. 4/5ths live in empire. If you look at expansions overall since launch, 20% of players have gotten 60% of content. Now, I understand that eve is all about Risk v Reward, but the way it's handled tends to alienate new players after a few months. Because those nullsec alliances don't want noobs, typically, they want seasoned players, this has led to the current plateau in server population.
We need more accessible content in empire. Not necessarily better paying content, but enough content to actually keep players hooked until they can go on to do alliances. Or whatever.
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
220
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 15:16:00 -
[3203] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Malcanis wrote: This was nothing to do with "alliances".
Malcanis, rather bluntly, yes it was. I watched major alliances in a foot race to try and sew up Plasma worlds in PI, Of the things released this expansion, the only one that did not benefit Alliances, particularly low and null sec ones, more than anyone else, was the tractor beam deployable. Ghost site spawns seem to be overwhelmingly nullsec (latest estimates I've seen were 4-5 sites across the entirety of Empire at any one time, vs 6 or more per nullsec region). The new ship is available more cheaply in null sec (meaning 'to goonswarm' in this case) . The new depot deployable heavily nerfs solo pvp in low and null sec in favor of large gangs. The other one penalizes unwatched POS moon sites. Now these do have uses for players other than Alliances, don't get me wrong, but the biggest benefit is theirs. And this has been going on for years. If you stop and look at the numbers, something like 1/5th of EvE players are in a nullsec alliance. 4/5ths live in empire. If you look at expansions overall since launch, 20% of players have gotten 60% of content. Now, I understand that eve is all about Risk v Reward, but the way it's handled tends to alienate new players after a few months. Because those nullsec alliances don't want noobs, typically, they want seasoned players, this has led to the current plateau in server population. We need more accessible content in empire. Not necessarily better paying content, but enough content to actually keep players hooked until they can go on to do alliances. Or whatever.
Although I more or less agree with the fact that CCP has made a lot of changes that benefit large alliances primarily, I can't help but point out that your examples are terribly inaccurate.
Example, the new deployable depo can only be used by the character that deploys them. Which means they will never be useful to gangs except that one of the people in those gangs could change to suit the rest of them. The depo is entirely suited to solo play. Same with siphon, which allows small groups to attack the POSes of large alliances without there being any notifications for them.
Also the nullsec alliances rely quite heavily on new players. Being part of a blue blob doesn't take any skill. It's easy to shove a new character into the gang and give them simple commands. Align this gate, warp, jump. Align that gate, warp, dont jump, hold. Jump, align another gate, warp. Etc. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
299
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 16:23:00 -
[3204] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:As I said - yeah, maybe the idea of walking around in a station may attract a few people. But then you need them to stay and progress through the game, enjoy it (...and start alts, possibly, what's EVE without alts) then take part in the stories that make it popular. If the game has literally no content besides running around doing nothing, it'll be a short trip for them - especially when it comes to a lengthy game like this one.
Pray tell how do you progress throught the game, when this game has no set goals, aside from those you set for yourself? Also now more or less actively playing for a bit over seven years, in my experience, this game literally has no content unless you are willing to join alliances - or very very large corporations, or small corporations with really really big balls. Not necessarily even nullsec ones, I also mean FW alliances, highsec alliances. To be a solo player (and truly solo - no alts) is just to be bullied around by everyone and everything. "Oh, but it's an MMMO! You're supposed to play with others!" True enough, but what about the sandbox? Cant I socialize on my own terms?
Now, this is, like, a crazy idea, but maybe, just maybe EVE could do with content that doesn't revolve around extremely large groups of players and that has PVP - at least in the form of beating the snot out of fellow plyer avatars - forbidden. Could have more immersive PvE - just like outlined in the first post in this thread. I'm more convinced than ever that EVE needs WiS - properly implemented, with something to do, but no absolute requirement to do it. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
848
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 17:10:00 -
[3205] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Now, consider adding avatar gameplay to a game designed around 1 second ticks, while that game is running, RTFT already. The CQ does not work on 1 second tics, it is an instance of sorts inside the server, meaning it does not work straight through Tranquility which is why having a realtime vista to the station undock is hard if not impossible to implement at this time.
My point exactly. CQ is not avatar gameplay; it's a tech demo. Implementing MMO avatar gameplay in an MMO whose engine is built around 1 second ticks is a hard problem.
You're aware that the many improvements to the CARBON engine--you know, the one that runs on 1 second ticks--were made in preparation for avatar gameplay, right? If not, go read some dev blogs. You might also learn that Atlanta had to fork the CARBON engine to get it to work with WoD, which strongly implies that the current EVE engine is not up to the task of doing avatar gameplay well.
I agree that "it's a hard problem" is not an excuse, it is a fact which has to be planned around. This is pretty much what the Atlanta office has been doing. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Hendelse
Koshaku Gentlemen's Agreement
20
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 18:13:00 -
[3206] - Quote
I just want to play some poker ingame.. :(
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Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 20:30:00 -
[3207] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:Implying that fans of WiS want an unfinished/poorly thought out implementation of it. No I don't, but I do imply that what player base got as WiS on 21 June 2011 was unfinished and poorly thought out.
Sura Sadiva wrote:And we're all glad of this. However here we were trying to make some point about the game development and future more than about someone personal experience. Anyway thank you for sharing. Now if we check the "All Time (weekly average)" stats we notice this: EVE has a steady growth from the beginning till about 2007. Then we have a stronger growth roughly coincident with the Trinity - Apocrypha (2009) expansions (some of the best expansions ever). After this the players stabilize with peaks and fall but always around 30-35k average. There's no more growth, what changed? CCP started to reroute resources from EVE and focused on something else (Dust was officially announced in 2009); CCP is not SOny, or Blizzard, so to focus on all these new projects: Dust, WoD, a brand new avatar engine, recently Valkyrie, they had to progressively reduce the effort on EVE till a life-support (only tweaks, minor changes, needed fixes). As the gameplay stopped to expand so did the playerbase, the up and down we see in the stats are mostly the same pool of players, with the ususal increase on activity after an expansion release, the down again and so on. And I'm glad that you're glad, especially that with my help you could see what you couldn't earlier. Ok, all those silly comments aside.
You are right, and you could probably see that only after Retribution we went to the same level we were 3 years before (Incursion expansion). For 3 years CCP are trying to fix what they ignored by implementing "new and shiny" every expansion and it will take them probably 2 more years to fix what they should have done long time ago.
I do think that it is a hell of a lot of time and I would certainly like them to work faster, but at the same time I do think that fixing broken stuff is a necessity and it can't be postponed any longer.
Sura Sadiva wrote:The point is not if tweaks, fixes, micro-balanced are good, of course they are, and we should stop stating the obvious; the point is if they're alone enough to push a growth. The stats show the countrary. Despite any personal case. Yes, I agree.
And what would you like to see in this pushing growth expansion? Exposition WiS? Shooty WiS? More new space for FiS? Is Seagull's vision has any potential to be this pushing growth expansion in your opinion?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:So according to you, features are not intended to please those who pay for them? You should warn CCP, they're wasting a lot of dev time talking to players, while according to you they should just shove their ideas down the player's throats more than they already do.
It's not exactly wise to invest in a improved fidelization program and refurbishing the rooms when your hotel is emptying because 90% of your potential customers never make it past the hall and you're known for being old and riddled with meanies.
No, according to me WiS is a part of EVE client and until it is a part of said client what is "meaningful" and what is not should be decided by player base of EVE the game, not by some ephemeral players willing to pay for WiS only.
90% of this "potential" customers were probably looking for a shopping mall and stumbled upon your hotel by mistake.
Hemi DarkStar wrote: The avatar creation system is one of the best ones out there, if not...THE best.
People that play MMO's love making their avatars. But new players of EVE feel a bit cheated after they spend 30 minutes creating it. From a programmer's viewpoint I can see problems regarding netcode and what will happen if say you have too many of these Hres characters running around in a station, but it's far from impossible to pull off. If I had a say I would start with making a boardroom were CEO's and their flock can arrange meetings etc, with a cap limit of say 16 players.
APB's creation/customization system is interesting too, and maybe EVE can learn something useful from it.
And what will they do in this boardroom, walk around and look at beautiful exposition surrounding them?
I would like to see WiS, but bigger rooms with nothing to do in them and a couple of different colored textures that we could squeeze our avatars in is not the answer in my opinion, sorry. But then again if said things were implemented to Rubicon on top of what expansion already delivered I certainly wouldn't object even if I see them as not useful.
Ou, and do you really think that this new boardroom will bring new players who will stay more than for a month in EVE?
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Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 20:48:00 -
[3208] - Quote
Quote:and do you really think that this new boardroom will bring new players who will stay more than for a month in EVE?
No, but as I said...it could be the start. And yes, merely a boardroom would be boring. But if it's the start of a walking in station expanding EVE experience, then I'm all for it. And that would certainly spark the interest and imagination of new players. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
189
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 21:08:00 -
[3209] - Quote
Hemi DarkStar wrote:Quote:and do you really think that this new boardroom will bring new players who will stay more than for a month in EVE? No, but as I said...it could be the start. And yes, merely a boardroom would be boring. But if it's the start of a walking in station expanding EVE experience, then I'm all for it. And that would certainly spark the interest and imagination of new players. Add to that boardroom ability to conjure up the map for all to see as well as highlighting systems (drawing lines, et cetera). Also there could be option to display various stats, corporate hangar inventory and so on and so forth. Stuff that might be of use during meetings - and outside meetings too. "The Texan turned out to be good-natured, generous and likeable. In three days no one could stand him." -Joseph Heller, Catch-22 |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
597
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 21:36:00 -
[3210] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:Hemi DarkStar wrote:Quote:and do you really think that this new boardroom will bring new players who will stay more than for a month in EVE? No, but as I said...it could be the start. And yes, merely a boardroom would be boring. But if it's the start of a walking in station expanding EVE experience, then I'm all for it. And that would certainly spark the interest and imagination of new players. Add to that boardroom ability to conjure up the map for all to see as well as highlighting systems (drawing lines, et cetera). Also there could be option to display various stats, corporate hangar inventory and so on and so forth. Stuff that might be of use during meetings - and outside meetings too.
I'd add to that a special class of planet side jump clones so that you could dock in stations and jump to the surface of whatever planet your planet side jc is on. This would cause a pc/mac version of the dust client to load and allow us to interact with dust players, either playing with them or against them (though obviously dust bunnies would be tougher than any capsuleer) but it would of course be a genuine bridge between the two communities and a fulfilment of CCP's fighting on planets promise, all without having to touch the carbon engine that has been problematic for CCP without having to affect the eve game at all. Perhaps CCP should start knitting together the stuff they've already made as optional expansion packs for the eve client. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
736
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 01:13:00 -
[3211] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote: You are right, and you could probably see that only after Retribution we went to the same level we were 3 years before (Incursion expansion). For 3 years CCP are trying to fix what they ignored by implementing "new and shiny" every expansion and it will take them probably 2 more years to fix what they should have done long time ago.
Yes, but are only temporary peaks, we see the good expansion effects on a medium/long term. In example Incursions: the highest peak in EVE expansion but after the peak there's a rapid fall to the usual average. This doesn't mean was a good expansion, but prove it adressed an area felt as important by the playerbase and for this reason generated huge hype and expectations.
But then CCP was unable to deliver it properly or to capitalize on it. But only because CCP did it wrong doesn't mean the need adressed is wrong.
The last expansion able to push a peak and turn it in a stable growth was Apocrypha. After it is all up and down but always around the same average. Yes, Retribution and Rubicon are better expansion than others, Odissey is one of the worst ever, but in the end we're always there.
Periodically mantainence expansion like Crucibble are needed. But if the whole game devleopment is replaced by a simple, never ending maintianence, for years, this only suggests the Company has no more interest or no resources to keep the game alive and growing.
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Cesha Xenon
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 04:16:00 -
[3212] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote: this only suggests the Company has no more interest or no resources to keep the game alive and growing Eve had been up and running for a decade now. CCP could be fed up of it for all we know. The 2nd decade of Eve was announced, CCP better prove it is still interested. So far they do maintenance and announce Plex deals one after another. "Steady eve subscription growth" - are you kidding me? Merely the metagaming - old players get more and more accounts to stay competitive.
And if devs or shareholders got tired of Eve, it sure as hell seems like they struggle finding something that could score 'em another jackpot. Eve is looking like one hit wonder more and more with each expansion. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2645
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 07:57:00 -
[3213] - Quote
Cesha Xenon wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote: this only suggests the Company has no more interest or no resources to keep the game alive and growing Eve had been up and running for a decade now. CCP could be fed up with it for all we know. The 2nd decade of Eve was announced, CCP better prove it is still interested. So far they do maintenance and announce Plex deals one after another. "Steady eve subscription growth" - are you kidding me? Merely the metagaming - old players get more and more accounts to stay competitive. And if devs or shareholders got tired of Eve, it sure as hell seems like they struggle finding something that could score 'em another jackpot. Eve is looking like one hit wonder more and more with each expansion.
That's my impression. CCP has done one single succesful video game -and what a success has been! But their ability to keep succeeding is being put to test with each themed patch.
Being aware that summer expansions are always weak compared to winter ones (probably because the summer expansion is crafted during the horrible Icelandic winter and that can't be good for productivity), and how CCP already stated that sovereignty will not be adressed for a year, I wonder what will be the outcome of the next expansion.
More reselling the game to existing customers, probably. This and that little odd detail working towards the Hallelujah Plan. And a few more toys to keep you busy for a few weeks until they're digested and assimilated to the daily sh*t (mobitle tractor unit anyone?).
And then... nothing else. Little things, but nothing you can sell to an acquitance in case you hate him enough to lure him to EVE. More of the same one hit wonder with a different arrangement. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 14:11:00 -
[3214] - Quote
Boardroom example
Maybe something like this. I used the press images from Dust 514. Map on the side could be used to plan a fleet route, were fleetmembers can all make suggestions possibly. Maybe even draw lines like Anna suggested.
The screen on the left side can maybe function as a fleet fitting viewer, were you can help others with their fit that wil suit the mission ahead.
The table in the middle could be used for trade and commerce, or just see each others ISIS plan.. so maybe other fleet members or friends can make training suggestions.
I removed the big screen in the middle, which is shown in the press image. You could place the news feed there like in the CQ.
It's not much, but I think interacting with the other avatars like this would immerse you in the game more imo. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
191
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 16:06:00 -
[3215] - Quote
I like it. For corporate/alliance/coalition leadership there could also be option to see the locations of properly tagged fleets. Actually, since I don't have background in leading corporation, alliance or coalition it is better if someone who did have that gave suggestions on tools which might make their jobs more productive.
There could be other rooms too. "Battle Room" for teaching, planning and debriefing. Meeting room for negotiations (you don't want to bring neutrals and enemies to place where they could see fleet placements, do you?) and trades. And.... well, imagination is the limit. "The Texan turned out to be good-natured, generous and likeable. In three days no one could stand him." -Joseph Heller, Catch-22 |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 16:56:00 -
[3216] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Periodically mantainence expansion like Crucibble are needed. But if the whole game devleopment is replaced by a simple, never ending maintianence, for years, this only suggests the Company has no more interest or no resources to keep the game alive and growing. Maybe, but then why do they link their new products to game that they have no more interest or no resources to keep alive and growing.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And then... nothing else. Little things, but nothing you can sell to an acquitance in case you hate him enough to lure him to EVE. More of the same one hit wonder with a different arrangement. I get an impression from your posts you don't really like the game you are playing and paying for.
Hemi DarkStar wrote:- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Boardroom example- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Maybe something like this. I used the press images from Dust 514. Map on the side could be used to plan a fleet route, were fleetmembers can all make suggestions possibly. Maybe even draw lines like Anna suggested. The screen on the left side can maybe function as a fleet fitting viewer, were you can help others with their fit that wil suit the mission ahead. The table in the middle could be used for trade and commerce, or just see each others ISIS plan.. so maybe other fleet members or friends can make training suggestions. I removed the big screen in the middle, which is shown in the press image. You could place the news feed there like in the CQ. It's not much, but I think interacting with the other avatars like this would immerse you in the game more imo. And it prefers function over disco dancing. Impressive, and well thought out.
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Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
231
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 16:57:00 -
[3217] - Quote
There were UI mock ups for a "Corporate Quarters", which I think was an awesome idea. All they would need was a slay table and a load of corporate interfaces, such as war boards etc. A twitch link screen would be amazing so that someone could co-FC from inside the corporate quarters. Or you could have a scout master for large blobs that watched all the streams from the scouts. That would have been fantastic. Awesome photoshop by the way Hemi. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2648
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:51:00 -
[3218] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And then... nothing else. Little things, but nothing you can sell to an acquitance in case you hate him enough to lure him to EVE. More of the same one hit wonder with a different arrangement. I get an impression from your posts you don't really like the game you are playing and paying for.
He he. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Anomaly One
98
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 21:07:00 -
[3219] - Quote
Hemi DarkStar wrote: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Boardroom example - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
keep it up and you'll finish WiS before CCP does Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4
Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
798
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 23:35:00 -
[3220] - Quote
Looks awfully like the war room on the warbarge in Dust :p. That being said if you continue you'll have the racial variants before CCP lol. wumbo |
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Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Ragnarok.
11
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 02:50:00 -
[3221] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:Looks awfully like the war room on the warbarge in Dust :p. That being said if you continue you'll have the racial variants before CCP lol.
"I used the press images from Dust 514"
I'll just leave this here |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
316
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 16:17:00 -
[3222] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Example, the new deployable depo can only be used by the character that deploys them. Which means they will never be useful to gangs except that one of the people in those gangs could change to suit the rest of them. The depo is entirely suited to solo play. Same with siphon, which allows small groups to attack the POSes of large alliances without there being any notifications for them.
You are not thinking of them in the right terms. You go hunting solo, find a nice target all by his lonesome. Used to be it was then over if he didn't have stabs fitted. Now he just fits stabs anywhere and and warp away. The only way to catch and hold anyone before they run now if solo is with bubbles.
Also, do you have any idea how many siphon would have to be running to noticeably impact the operations of a large alliance? The only people they put a serious crimp on are the ones that only have a few moons.
Davon Mandra'thin wrote: Also the nullsec alliances rely quite heavily on new players. Being part of a blue blob doesn't take any skill. It's easy to shove a new character into the gang and give them simple commands. Align this gate, warp, jump. Align that gate, warp, dont jump, hold. Jump, align another gate, warp. Etc.
When was the last time you had a blue blob? Almost everything I see anymore is hot dropping the biggest cap fleet possible followed by a titan bridge. Set up a bunch of bubbles pr dictors on the gate, and a couple guys with cynos.
The Most Interesting Player In Eve. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
236
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 16:49:00 -
[3223] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote: You are not thinking of them in the right terms. You go hunting solo, find a nice target all by his lonesome. Used to be it was then over if he didn't have stabs fitted. Now he just fits stabs anywhere and and warp away. The only way to catch and hold anyone before they run now if solo is with bubbles.
So your saying that because you can't catch someone who is alone (read solo) it's a nerf to solo. Also, although it's irrelevant to my point (you just happen to require correcting on it), there is a timer when you deploy the depo. If you can't kill the depo (or the person) whilst it's deploying then your not fielding enough DPS anyway. And if you fail, then good for them (a solo player) for using their initiative.
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Also, do you have any idea how many siphon would have to be running to noticeably impact the operations of a large alliance? The only people they put a serious crimp on are the ones that only have a few moons.
Of course it can. One person can't make an alliances' POS operations redundant single handedly (that would be stupid), but that one person alone can benefit at the expense of the alliance. Something that largely couldn't be done before. How you could see this as not a buff to solo/small gang play I have no idea. Besides If you had 100 people willing to cooperate efficiently you could bleed every Goonswarm POS in nullsec completely dry. The fact that a force so small could do that to a force more than 30 times it's size can't be viewed as anything but a buff to the little guys.
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:When was the last time you had a blue blob? Almost everything I see anymore is hot dropping the biggest cap fleet possible followed by a titan bridge. Set up a bunch of bubbles pr dictors on the gate, and a couple guys with cynos.
You don't know what your talking about. Battleships are a staple of null combat. |
MechaViridis
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
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Posted - 2013.12.04 17:10:00 -
[3224] - Quote
TEAM AVATAR PLEASE CONSIDER SOMETHING LIKE THIS:
http://www.mostimpressive.nl/boardroom.jpg
I would love to interact with dust bunnies while watching ships fight on the undock. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1536
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 17:52:00 -
[3225] - Quote
Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship.
Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked? |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
778
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 18:39:00 -
[3226] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship. Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked? How about not all, except for a very select group of people.
Some fun stats can be found at http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/161511-1
3225 post, 448 posters.
Top 10 posters have written 40%+ of all posts (top 15 breaks 50%).
And 8.7% of all posts have been written by a Fazmarai ;)
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Cpt Tirel
77
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:24:00 -
[3227] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Lipbite wrote:Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship. Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked? How about not all, except for a very select group of people. Some fun stats can be found at http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/161511-13225 post, 448 posters. Top 10 posters have written 40%+ of all posts (top 15 breaks 50%). And 8.7% of all posts have been written by a Fazmarai ;)
Not very suprising, and why do you quote Lipbite? this has nothing to do with her post. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
778
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:41:00 -
[3228] - Quote
Cpt Tirel wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Lipbite wrote:Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship. Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked? How about not all, except for a very select group of people. Some fun stats can be found at http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/161511-13225 post, 448 posters. Top 10 posters have written 40%+ of all posts (top 15 breaks 50%). And 8.7% of all posts have been written by a Fazmarai ;) Not very suprising, and why do you quote Lipbite? this has nothing to do with her post. Because I felt the statistics indicated how many eve players that would be interested.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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CCP Aporia
C C P C C P Alliance
140
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:53:00 -
[3229] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Cpt Tirel wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Lipbite wrote:Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship. Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked? How about not all, except for a very select group of people. Some fun stats can be found at http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/161511-13225 post, 448 posters. Top 10 posters have written 40%+ of all posts (top 15 breaks 50%). And 8.7% of all posts have been written by a Fazmarai ;) Not very suprising, and why do you quote Lipbite? this has nothing to do with her post. Because I felt the statistics indicated how many eve players that would be interested.
As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". Senior Programmer Team Special Circumstances Friend of Walking Avatars |
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Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
191
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:00:00 -
[3230] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:
As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting".
I wish I could give this thousand likes. "The Texan turned out to be good-natured, generous and likeable. In three days no one could stand him." -Joseph Heller, Catch-22 |
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Lo'Kii
Freedom For Fantasy The Unthinkables
2
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:11:00 -
[3231] - Quote
Indeed, and it would actually give an extra dimension to Eve. It would not just be space barbies, but you can actually check whether there is a fleet waiting for you on the undock (unless they are cloaked off course...). I would prefer in contrary to above picture that is a tower on top of the station from which you can view space all around.
Each station will then have a different view, which makes the universe feel way more dynamic. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
798
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:28:00 -
[3232] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:
As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting".
and we have a winner! wumbo |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:29:00 -
[3233] - Quote
Nice to see the image sparkled some new debate, and that CCP is still watching this thread.
It's was really just a quick'ndirty photoshop copy/paste thing, to describe the whole boardroom idea.
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Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
237
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:31:00 -
[3234] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Lipbite wrote:Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship. Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked? How about not all, except for a very select group of people. Some fun stats can be found at http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/161511-13225 post, 448 posters. Top 10 posters have written 40%+ of all posts (top 15 breaks 50%). And 8.7% of all posts have been written by a Fazmarai ;)
Yea, that's more or less normal for any thread, especially the longer lived ones. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2653
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:09:00 -
[3235] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Cpt Tirel wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Lipbite wrote:Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship. Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked? How about not all, except for a very select group of people. Some fun stats can be found at http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/161511-13225 post, 448 posters. Top 10 posters have written 40%+ of all posts (top 15 breaks 50%). And 8.7% of all posts have been written by a Fazmarai ;) Not very suprising, and why do you quote Lipbite? this has nothing to do with her post. Because I felt the statistics indicated how many eve players that would be interested. As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting".
FAI, it doesn't shows the people who started in the first WiS threads and no longer play EVE. And actually my own stats are skewed because I was unsubbed several months in the last year. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Tomiko Kawase
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
130
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:16:00 -
[3236] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship. Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked?
I'm trying to imagine any use for a "boardroom" and I'm drawing a blank. What purpose would something like this serve?
It's kind of a cool image, but I just don't see any use for it. Fight us maybe? |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:23:00 -
[3237] - Quote
Tomiko Kawase wrote:Lipbite wrote:Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship. Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked? I'm trying to imagine any use for a "boardroom" and I'm drawing a blank. What purpose would something like this serve? It's kind of a cool image, but I just don't see any use for it.
Post #3071 explains it a bit.
And it was just an idea/concept art, nothing more...nothing less. |
Tomiko Kawase
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
130
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:27:00 -
[3238] - Quote
Let's be clear, I really want some meaningful avatar gameplay at some point in EVE.
Nothing from a "boardroom" would enhance the EVE experience. Everything mentioned there is handled much more efficiently by 3rd party programs and just plain communicating over mumble.
If there was some way to make the boardroom useful, I feel like it could work.
Also there's a type of boardroom already in DUST514, if you haven't experienced that. All it does is serve to make the 40s-60s waits between gameplay excruciating. It has a tactical map (albeit with limited functionality right now) and a player listing. The problem is the boardroom aesthetic does nothing to add to the game. The game map and scorescreen deliver the same information much quicker and more efficiently. Fight us maybe? |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:32:00 -
[3239] - Quote
Well...let's hear it then. I mean, nothing set in stone atm. Hell, I can start up photoshop and visualize your ideas, if needed. I don't mind. |
Tomiko Kawase
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
130
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:40:00 -
[3240] - Quote
Hemi DarkStar wrote:Well...let's hear it then. I mean, nothing set in stone atm. Hell, I can start up photoshop and visualize your ideas if needed. I don't mind.
The burden of proof lies on your end. Fight us maybe? |
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Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
1562
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:58:00 -
[3241] - Quote
I think I've officially got a crush on CCP Aporia.
Stats? Heh, I'd post a thousand times in this thread if I could, but really all the points have been made, pros and cons highlighted, people's fears identified, benefits shown, etc. Much of the discussion is circular as new trolls arrive from time to time.
This thread has shown there are a lot of players who support this idea, and most of those who don't are merely fearful of spaceships being neglected rather than being against avatar gameplay in and of itself. I believe we'll see it, eventually, if CCP still wants eve to be the ultimate sci-fi sim in an overall sense. Simple. *shrug* Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) CEO Nighthawk Exploration | Just an innocent explorer passing through-á pâä OOPE Pinup Calender applications |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
798
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:32:00 -
[3242] - Quote
Hemi DarkStar wrote:Well...let's hear it then. I mean, nothing set in stone atm. Hell, I can start up photoshop and visualize your ideas if needed. I don't mind.
Well the chief thing CCP stated they wanted to do for WiS was ghost stations/sleeper stations that could be explored for loot, money, etc. involving all manner of puzzles, environmental hazards and the ability to combat other pilots, lock them inside, and/or just destroy the structure (with everything in it) shipside.This is also the prototype which the thread is actually about. There's a video with T0rfi showing it off somewhere on the web (made in Unity IIRC) wumbo |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Moira. Villore Accords
118
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:38:00 -
[3243] - Quote
INTRODUCING EVE BOARDROOM!!!! Didn't have enough meetings at work today? NO FEAR U, Now you can come home and revisit the boardroom with all of your eve pals!! Donate to this kickstarter now and receive (1) instant coffee maker for all your late-night-meeting needs, and (2) one box of hemorrhoid cream for your space clone's worn out buttsitter.
Seriously, though, the current devs have more important things to work on...However, I fully support a kickstarter campaign to hire WiS devs to develop these kind of features---windows out of the station, interactions with other players, stuff like gambling areas, just not exactly a boardroom...lol I would donate some monies to such a campaign |
Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:55:00 -
[3244] - Quote
Tomiko Kawase wrote:
I'm trying to imagine any use for a "boardroom" and I'm drawing a blank. What purpose would something like this serve?
It's kind of a cool image, but I just don't see any use for it.
For your own Captain's Quarters' holoscreen:
Number of unread emails, finished/outstanding orders, current max buy/sell prices on selected items, status of the entire skill queue, mission expiration dates, your PI status on all of your planets for the current character, basic and most vital info on your current ship fitting(ammo type loaded, entire ammo count/type, number/type of drones, ship status and repair quote) and all of other - preferrably configurable - readouts i forgot now in one single swipe of the mouse right upon log in. Just pure convenience for the start.
Idea for a central tactical display inside a small crop outpost in addition to the other already mentioned tactical functions:
Snapshots in 3D and realtime 3D projection of what the scouts are currently observing. Might help to convey certain information faster - "hey guys, look at that nice litte gatecamp i'm spying on right now ". You could even stream Eve tournaments in 3D then, for the extra-cool-never-ever-seen-before factor. The latter might be seriously good for Eve PR campaigns.
Really, someone with a talent has to photoshop that latter part: CCP Fozzy and CCP Rise with micros talking on the Holoscreen while there is a 3D projection of the tourney field with all the little shipps shooting lazors and stuff at each other in front of it. Nerdfactor waaaaaaay over 9000
Edit: in a previous post I also suggested creation of a small personal and corporation-oriented structures with their own kind of captain's or crew quarters. If CCP would limit the decoration accessoires for these new CQ's in such a way that the most interesting and visually impressive would be only available in low/null (certain stuff is outlawed in high sec), it might create some sort of a pull/encouragement for players to try and migrate away from high sec. |
Tomiko Kawase
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
130
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:54:00 -
[3245] - Quote
All of that sounds pretty cool, if we didn't already have the option to do all of that right now and much more conveniently than in a "boardroom."
For instance, having FC tools like what your scout sees is already a very integral part of fights. Set up a private twitch stream for your scout and look at what he sees. Even better, you're not limited to a room!
Information readouts that are already readily available don't add anything. Fight us maybe? |
Flamespar
Woof Club
940
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 05:57:00 -
[3246] - Quote
Tomiko Kawase wrote:All of that sounds pretty cool, if we didn't already have the option to do all of that right now and much more conveniently than in a "boardroom."
For instance, having FC tools like what your scout sees is already a very integral part of fights. Set up a private twitch stream for your scout and look at what he sees. Even better, you're not limited to a room!
Information readouts that are already readily available don't add anything.
Extraordinary lack of imagination detected.
Personally I like the idea of the interactive map to which players can submit reports from space/Dust 514.
If you see a gatecamp you can press a button to send a short report that will be displayed on the maps location. Or if an explorer finds a cluster of exploration sites or a wormhole location (or even a ghost site) then they can send an update.
Active and upcoming battles in Dust514. Corp events and locations. Annotations. Whatever.
Being able to view districts in Dust514 in order to help plan an attack.
The exciting part is that it also creates opportunities for misinformation. Reporting enemy ships where there are none. Lying about the location of an exploration site. Spamming the war room with false reports to confuse the leaders.
Being able to see the status of POS's at a glance with displays that show fuel reminaing. Silo capacity. Whatever.
A boardroom like the one suggested could be an ideal way of linking Dust and EVE players in a way that is more meaningful than a bar/social space. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
940
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 06:08:00 -
[3247] - Quote
CCP Aporia wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Cpt Tirel wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Lipbite wrote:Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship. Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked? How about not all, except for a very select group of people. Some fun stats can be found at http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/161511-13225 post, 448 posters. Top 10 posters have written 40%+ of all posts (top 15 breaks 50%). And 8.7% of all posts have been written by a Fazmarai ;) Not very suprising, and why do you quote Lipbite? this has nothing to do with her post. Because I felt the statistics indicated how many eve players that would be interested. As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting".
Most people on this forum quote only those statistics that they think support their argument (whilst ignoring the rest)
9 out of 6 people know this. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 08:07:00 -
[3248] - Quote
A boardroom or extra room were avatars walk around should be functional though. Gambeling and doing other silly things will not help EVE's delicate economy, as people that prefer high-sec will never leave their stations.
So whatever CCP comes up with, it must have a function and still promote the fact that you need to get out and explore the universe. Otherwise you will collapse the economy while avatars do the funky chicken in a station 24/7. The current CQ is simply an alternative for the hangar and does not take the players away from what they are supposed to do, fly ships and destroy / create new ones. The same rule applies for any other room that get's added into the game.
I'm not saying a boardroom is the sollution, but maybe there are other activities that can fuel the economy and still provide an avatar interaction of some kind. |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 08:40:00 -
[3249] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Extraordinary lack of imagination detected. Agreed, but also - Eve is "only about spaceships" detected. "Me, me, me." These guys are always going to do spaceships-only mantra ignoring every argument why WiS can be good and how good it could be - provided proper implementation.
"Oh but look at incarna and the riots it caused!" - Anything poorly implemented with crappy release would be followed up by a fallout. "We better get the spaceships only, as a paying customer i want spaceships only!" - You aren't the only one paying for Eve, nor the only one driving the Plex market bringing CCP revenue. "But they dared to talk about $1k jeans, microtransactions and how about that awful 'greed is good' leak!" - It's all about micro-transactions already. Would be interesting to see the statistics on Pay2win through plexing to replace losses. Or amount of accounts these players got on average. Also how dare CCP make any profits off the game many of them dedicated a decade of their life to!
Flamespar wrote:A boardroom like the one suggested could be an ideal way of linking Dust and EVE players in a way that is more meaningful than a bar/social space. Not only more meaningful, but maybe even much more efficient as an interface between player and eve. I don't think i'd be the only one to mention that Eve is weak in that regard. Many game's aspects look as spreadsheets - good luck trying to "immerse a newbie." Of course nobody wants WiS that would hinder interaction between player and the client. But what if the same "boardroom" included and maybe improved those 3rd party tools, in such a way that we do not have to alttab out of the client?
Should be all about immersion, improvement of interaction between players, improvement of interface. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1539
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 10:17:00 -
[3250] - Quote
Tomiko Kawase wrote:Lipbite wrote:Apparently "EVE Boardroom" image is the most upvoted link in EVE sub-reddit today. Image of a feature which does not exist is twice more popular than devs post about SoE battleship. Imagine - how interesting it could be if it actually worked? I'm trying to imagine any use for a "boardroom" and I'm drawing a blank. What purpose would something like this serve? It's kind of a cool image, but I just don't see any use for it. Purpose of development and progress is quality of life (and gameplay). EVE stuck in 90s with its chat as "social" interface a-la Diablo 1 / Battlenet chat. |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2677
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:14:00 -
[3251] - Quote
Shamelessly bumping The Thread to post something interesting I crafted earlier today:
Arguments in favor of avatars as they were in 2011, and still are valid in 2013:
- provide a immersive New Player Experience - improve player attachment to the game - optimize and exploit the resources spent in developing WoD - gain female players - enable vanity microtransactions - expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche
Arguments new and specific to 2013:
- attract new players - compete against a new generation of "classic" space games featuring avatars - expand beyond its stagnant niche
Must be noted that all the points above except the expansion can be achieved without additional gameplay. Must be noted too that the ongoing Hallelujah Plan does not adress any of the above. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Rain6637
Team Evil
6757
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:23:00 -
[3252] - Quote
a reputation as a killer in space, and also in close quarters firefights... so epic
Rainfleet on Twitch |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
798
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 23:39:00 -
[3253] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shamelessly bumping The Thread to post something interesting I crafted earlier today:
Arguments in favor of avatars as they were in 2011, and still are valid in 2013:
- provide a immersive New Player Experience - improve player attachment to the game - optimize and exploit the resources spent in developing WoD - gain female players - enable vanity microtransactions - expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche
Arguments new and specific to 2013:
- attract new players - compete against a new generation of "classic" space games featuring avatars - expand beyond its stagnant niche
Must be noted that all the points above except the expansion can be achieved without additional gameplay. Must be noted too that the ongoing Hallelujah Plan does not adress any of the above. Shamelessly pointing out where I think you're fundamentally wrong.
- Eve shouldn't trap innocent gamers by pretending to be a game it isn't. - Eve players already has an unhealthy attachment to the game. - CCP is optimizing and exploiting the resources spent on developing WoD. Go down to Georgia and they'll tell you (in that slow country style). - As heterosexual male with female offspring I duck for this one, whatever I say will be 100% wrong. - Tricking people to pay for vanity items without telling them how silly they look is pure evil. - EvE has survived for 10 years thanks to it's "cult" niche.
- Attracting new players with a false perception of EvE is bad marketing. - None of the new generation of "classic" space games competes with EvE, unless you first transform EvE to compete with them. - I don't know what game you play, by the Eve I play is far from stagnant. I have to admit that I'm quite busy trying to keep up. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 00:35:00 -
[3254] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: - compete against a new generation of "classic" space games featuring avatars
Em, and what are those "classic" space games that EVE is competing against?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: - expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche
When all things are fixed yes, but now not so much.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: can be achieved without additional gameplay.
Yeah right... just like this pinnacle of gaming
|
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
802
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 01:09:00 -
[3255] - Quote
I think I can safely say that whatever direction CCP takes WiS it won't be that. wumbo |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
322
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 01:51:00 -
[3256] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote: - EvE has survived for 10 years thanks to it's "cult" niche..
Survived yes, but not really grown much past the 40k mark. New subs are just equaling people leaving. That's not really a good thing.
I am the Walrus. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
304
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 02:03:00 -
[3257] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote: - EvE has survived for 10 years thanks to it's "cult" niche.
- Attracting new players with a false perception of EvE is bad marketing.
-Surviving is not thriving, especially when EVE pays for 3 other games.
-Tell that to the people that keep making avatars important parts of the expansion trailers as of late even though avatars are still mostly just portraits and nothing more
Couple of things I had to point out, I'm sure others will pick this post clean. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
628
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 09:57:00 -
[3258] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Lors Dornick wrote: - EvE has survived for 10 years thanks to it's "cult" niche..
Survived yes, but not ren much past the 40k mark. New subs are just equaling people leaving. That's not really a good thing.
Plus the universe is filling up with alts whilst numbers at logon don't seem to have altered much which makes me think that we have a declining population of players, the fact that years back we had 30k online at a time with very little multi boxing and now there are 50k when practically everyone has more than one account suggests that CCP has stopped attracting new players which nicely explains the desire to dumb down and represent eve in a noob friendly way.
having less people who are willing to pay more is not good for the core business and does not represent the success the community needs in attracting new blood who decide to stay and become subscribers. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2680
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 09:58:00 -
[3259] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Shamelessly bumping The Thread to post something interesting I crafted earlier today:
Arguments in favor of avatars as they were in 2011, and still are valid in 2013:
- provide a immersive New Player Experience - improve player attachment to the game - optimize and exploit the resources spent in developing WoD - gain female players - enable vanity microtransactions - expand EVE beyond its "cult" niche
Arguments new and specific to 2013:
- attract new players - compete against a new generation of "classic" space games featuring avatars - expand beyond its stagnant niche
Must be noted that all the points above except the expansion can be achieved without additional gameplay. Must be noted too that the ongoing Hallelujah Plan does not adress any of the above. Shamelessly pointing out where I think you're fundamentally wrong. - Eve shouldn't trap innocent gamers by pretending to be a game it isn't. - Eve players already has an unhealthy attachment to the game. - CCP is optimizing and exploiting the resources spent on developing WoD. Go down to Georgia and they'll tell you (in that slow country style). - As heterosexual male with female offspring I duck for this one, whatever I say will be 100% wrong. - Tricking people to pay for vanity items without telling them how silly they look is pure evil. - EvE has survived for 10 years thanks to it's "cult" niche. - Attracting new players with a false perception of EvE is bad marketing. - None of the new generation of "classic" space games competes with EvE, unless you first transform EvE to compete with them. - I don't know what game you play, by the Eve I play is far from stagnant. I have to admit that I'm quite busy trying to keep up.
For clarity, will counter-point one by one:
- Eve shouldn't trap innocent gamers by pretending to be a game it isn't.
That's exactly what it does now with its marketing, hisec content and everything not related to asploding ships. To be honest, EVE's NPE should consist of spawning new players in space in a 0.0 island in hisec. Any gate leads to safety... but you must die a few times before getting there. Surely that would weed out all the wrong players right on arrival. But maybe also would have some angry stakeholders asking for Hilmar's head not-so-metaphorically.
- Eve players already has an unhealthy attachment to the game.
Those who feel attached, yes. But a vast majority find themselves not involved with an anonymous ship and a pile of spreadsheets, and quit the game easily enough to kill all growth for the last two years.
- CCP is optimizing and exploiting the resources spent on developing WoD. Go down to Georgia and they'll tell you (in that slow country style).
Using those resources in their money maker game would make them more money. Maybe it coud even pay for the development of WoD before it is complete and (hopefully) paying itself. And it even was the original plan, as it makes so much good sense that everything else reeks either of incompetence or hopelessness.
- As heterosexual male with female offspring I duck for this one, whatever I say will be 100% wrong.
This game smells so much of neckbeard that we should name it "spaceships, spreadsheets and neckbeards"... I am glad that you understand what is wrong with that.
- Tricking people to pay for vanity items without telling them how silly they look is pure evil.
Was there a point? I think I missed it.
- EvE has survived for 10 years thanks to it's "cult" niche.
It used to do more than survive, it used to grow without spending millions in marketing. Now it spends millions just to keep the numbers where they are. Two cult niches are larger than a single cult niche.
- Attracting new players with a false perception of EvE is bad marketing.
Point 1, CCP is already doing that. Just look at the latest trailers and tell me they look like anything you can see or do in the actual game.
Point 2, advertise what you can deliver and deliver what you advertise are good practices. Nobody is asking CCP to do it wrong again...
- None of the new generation of "classic" space games competes with EvE, unless you first transform EvE to compete with them.
They don't compete with, they compete against EVE for a limited amount of customers, their money and their time. To every enterprise, most of their customers are "wrong" customers. If someone offers those customers what they want, and does it better, they will leave. And so far, EVE's only competition have been "WoW in space", not the kind of game we old farts played when we were young.
- I don't know what game you play, by the Eve I play is far from stagnant. I have to admit that I'm quite busy trying to keep up.
Just look at PCU versus marketing expense, or try to unsub an account and wait to see how much they shell you with return offers up to 40% discount. The user base is not growing, and that means that anything that increases unsubscription rate will shrink PCU, and past a certain point, will damage the game economy both ingame and IRL. And earlier in RL than ingame, actually: Incarnageddon, with all its dramatic consequences, is rumored to have caused a drop of just 8-10% in subcriptions.
And by the way, if we look at the proliferation of multiple accounts, the damage taken if they start unsubbing will be even larger than if EVE had a healthier mix of single/multiple accounts. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
530
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 10:12:00 -
[3260] - Quote
Posting in what appears to be the longest EVE is Dying thread ever.
Here's to another ten years of dying. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
|
Anomaly One
106
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 12:24:00 -
[3261] - Quote
I just remembered that even battlestar galactica online has more WiS in it than EvE does
FOR SHAME CCP FOR SHAME!! eleventy
Quote: Tricking people to pay for vanity items without telling them how silly they look is pure evil
maybe to you I look silly, but to me I AM http://goo.gl/FuoAd8 Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4
Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
631
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 15:07:00 -
[3262] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Posting in what appears to be the longest EVE is Dying thread ever.
Here's to another ten years of dying.
I think that's unfair. The people in favour of WIS are no less convinced that EVE is dying than the FIS only crowd. Indeed as a person who would like to see more avatar content in game I am passionate about EVE and want to see it continue indefinitely with more players drawn from all walks of real life. I hope Eve outlasts' me and I planning on having at least another 40 years of life on Earth.
As mentioned in previous posts I advocate the twin focus approach to WIS and FIS so that every expansion from here on in offers a little to both communities. Small enhancements that don't cost the earth to implement would be a good start such as increased functionality of that big screen in the CQ such as Station based D-Scan on screen to give you a clue as to what is out there within 14 AU of the station as of course your ship cant do this as it's in the station. It's a small bridge between the 'station windows are impossible because of server ticks' brigade and the WIS crowd with something that is tactically useful for small gangs that can't always have a scout outside. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
349
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 16:19:00 -
[3263] - Quote
Station windows actually sound way more possible than a lot of the WiS visions mentioned here. The server knows the station and since (correct me if I'm wrong!) station grids are allocated in a static way (A grid around a station/belt/celestial always exists regardless of player presence) it can refer to it for a list of objects on said grid.
They then could be rendered outside of a fake window - maybe not in their exact position, to create an illusion of what's where. Not a true reflection - I guess you could get standing/status coloured dots though. And it could add a function to the door - a bigass balcony behind it that has a window you can moodily stare at when docked and not spinning your ship. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
274
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 16:22:00 -
[3264] - Quote
You know what? A station window would be amazing. Would mean you didn't need an alt or a scout to look at the outside of the station you are actually in to know if there were people outside. In a super futuristic future with immortal pilots who plug directly into their ship, we can't look outside before undocking. |
Sphit Ker
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
181
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 17:18:00 -
[3265] - Quote
I want The Device that does a thing in my CQ and a joystick so I can spin my ship from the balcony. There's a conveniently placed console on the railing already.
right. whatever. x.x |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
536
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 17:47:00 -
[3266] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I think that's unfair. The people in favour of WIS are no less convinced that EVE is dying than the FIS only crowd.
[...]
As mentioned in previous posts I advocate the twin focus approach to WIS and FIS so that every expansion from here on in offers a little to both communities. Here again is the issue I spotted when I skimmed the last few pages of this thread. "Both communities". "Twin approach". The style of the talk is that of bringing in a whole new seperate group of players to EVE (I think I saw someone saying something like "two niches is better than one"?). I remember when that used to be a caricature of WiS that the anti-WiS crowd used to make it sound bad; that it would just be barbies-in-space for people who couldn't hack EVE itself.
WiS used to be about adding to the substance of the game for the existing players, and maybe attracting new people who would initially come for the avatar content, but would stay for the spaceships. And while I'm sure you'll say that that hasn't changed, people are now talking about WiS as a new revenue stream for EVE, in the same way that DUST and WoD are (supposed to be) for CCP.
EVE has plateaued because CCP have directed their efforts to other games, and what I am seeing is the suggestion that they should (or even need to) direct even more of their efforts away from EVE and into another game, but this time we'll build it into the client and call it part of EVE to make the sub numbers get bigger without actually solving the 'problem' of EVE's plateau.
What is the idea that EVE needs a new game built into it for a new playerbase in order to survive if not the idea that EVE, the spaceship game, is dying? [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 17:56:00 -
[3267] - Quote
Apparently it used to be possible to display your own videos on the CQ monitor. All they need is to add a broadcast station camera of some sort. |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
802
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:01:00 -
[3268] - Quote
you still can iirc wumbo |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
748
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:09:00 -
[3269] - Quote
I think that was only a client side hack, replacing the video stream file in the client. Getting live video from space should be very different and problematic. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
275
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:18:00 -
[3270] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:what I am seeing is the suggestion that they should (or even need to) direct even more of their efforts away from EVE and into another game, but this time we'll build it into the client and call it part of EVE to make the sub numbers get bigger without actually solving the 'problem' of EVE's plateau.
What is the idea that EVE needs a new game built into it for a new playerbase in order to survive if not the idea that EVE, the spaceship game, is dying?
Actually, I think most people who realise that these development resources will have to come from somewhere would prefer them to have not bothered with Valkyrie or a mobile app at all. Frankly, I would rather they hadn't developed Dust in the first place. With the resources they have put onto any one of those projects we could have seen considerable progress towards Avatar content in a single expansion cycle.
Instead, however, CCP think it's best to spread themselves too thin. CCP splitting their developers between Dust and Eve for the 18 months before the release of Incarna was probably a contributing factor to why we saw so little development on Eve during that time.
People bring up how CCP working on Avatar content would spread them too thin a lot. It's a common argument from people. But if your going to argue that, perhaps you should be opening threads asking CCP to stop development on all the stuff they are currently wasting their resources on. CCP are already doing that. |
|
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
275
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:19:00 -
[3271] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:I think that was only a client side hack, replacing the video stream file in the client. Getting live video from space should be very different and problematic.
Not entirely. If you replaced all the usual files (so you wouldn't see the normal things come up on the screen) you could write a simple solution to cut a stream (such as a Twitch livestream from outside) into small video files and dynamically add them into that folder.
You would have a 5-10 second delay, but that's workable for a quick dirty solution. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
748
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:25:00 -
[3272] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote: WiS used to be about adding to the substance of the game for the existing players, and maybe attracting new people who would initially come for the avatar content, but would stay for the spaceships. And while I'm sure you'll say that that hasn't changed
Offering an anchor for a pool of potential players more comfortable in immedesimating themself in an avatar gameplay (it's a MMORPG standard), and to get into game playing it instead of having to study PDF guides was a declared goal of CQ. And this is needed to help player retantion (one of the main weakness of EVE) more than to actract masses of random players.
This was and still is a good point to adress. Problem is that CQ had to be simply a part of WiS, and even this mere retention function doesn't work left as is now and without any real integration with the main gameplay.
Beside this I think almost everyone in this thread agree that WiS, to make sense, need to be integrated with the main EVE gameplay and universe.
The ones marking a separation are just the trolls of the so-called "FiS ". They see more EVE lilke a LoL or WoT in space; they have no interest in having a proper sci-fi gameplay developed, they will quit EVE anyway, as soon as some new, shiny, shooter/flight simulator will be released on the market.
|
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 19:00:00 -
[3273] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote: WiS used to be about adding to the substance of the game for the existing players, and maybe attracting new people who would initially come for the avatar content, but would stay for the spaceships. And while I'm sure you'll say that that hasn't changed, people are now talking about WiS as a new revenue stream for EVE, in the same way that DUST and WoD are (supposed to be) for CCP.
The general consensus here or at least the most WiS proponents would agree on is that CCP's split attention to so many projects (projects that have minimal or no relation to Eve) caused bad release of Incarna. That is while the most "eve is only about ships" crowd prefers to blame Incarna for the lack of work on spaceship content. Derogatory "Barbies in space" is tossed around way to often if you ask me.
Crumplecorn wrote:what I am seeing is the suggestion that they should (or even need to) direct even more of their efforts away from EVE and into another game, but this time we'll build it into the client and call it part of EVE to make the sub numbers get bigger without actually solving the 'problem' of EVE's plateau. Why would it be another game? One universe with multiple aspects with WiS as "meaningful" avatar game with the same players. "Station games" could attain the new meaning. Also it was said multiple times that WiS potentially can bring so much more content to Eve, since it's practically fresh start - comparing to new ships-related content which can potentially break fragile game balance. As a result WiS would add more variety to activities, it would hold new player interest for much longer than current system. As of now newcomers have to spend hefty amount of time on google digging through piles of spreadsheets, pie-charts.
Avatar content is one of the most efficient ways to get new players hooked on the game. New player retention would be the solution for 'problem' of EVE's plateau as you call it.
Right now the game is not advertised true to its game play. And when someone new downloads and installs the client lies continue with character creator. We were given such an elaborate tool to create highly detailed character for what exactly? To get dumped in a single room and convert it to a static image. Seems like such a waste. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
538
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 19:43:00 -
[3274] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:People bring up how CCP working on Avatar content would spread them too thin a lot. It's a common argument from people. But if your going to argue that, perhaps you should be opening threads asking CCP to stop development on all the stuff they are currently wasting their resources on. CCP are already doing that. I have no issue with CCP focusing elsewhere as long as EVE isn't declining, which as far as I can see, it isn't. My issue is with people advocating an even greater split of their focus as a solution to a supposed problem caused by their split focus.
Sura Sadiva wrote:Beside this I think almost everyone in this thread agree that WiS, to make sense, need to be integrated with the main EVE gameplay and universe.
The ones marking a separation are just the trolls of the so-called "FiS ". Really? Because I see pro-WiS people using phrases like "two niches" and "both communities". Doesn't sound very integrated to me.
Thetabetalpha wrote:Why would it be another game? One universe with multiple aspects with WiS as "meaningful" avatar game with the same players. Really? Because I see pro-WiS people using phrases like "two niches" and "both communities". Doesn't sound the same players to me.
Thetabetalpha wrote:Also it was said multiple times that WiS potentially can bring so much more content to Eve, since it's practically fresh start - comparing to new ships-related content which can potentially break fragile game balance. As a result WiS would add more variety to activities, it would hold new player interest for much longer than current system. As of now newcomers have to spend hefty amount of time on google digging through piles of spreadsheets, pie-charts. "DUST potentially can bring so much more content to Eve, since it's practically fresh start - comparing to new ships-related content which can potentially break fragile game balance. As a result DUST would add more variety to activities, it would hold new player interest for much longer than current system. As of now newcomers have to spend hefty amount of time on google digging through piles of spreadsheets, pie-charts."
See, when I can sub in a game seperate from EVE and you paragraph still basically makes sense, I kinda don't get the "I'm not talking about a new game" vibe. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
749
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 20:07:00 -
[3275] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote: Really? Because I see pro-WiS people using phrases like "two niches" and "both communities". Doesn't sound very integrated to me.
Yes, really. Sometime reading (or at least having a lcue about what the discussion is about) the thread before jumping in cocky is usefull.
Then you'd know better as these people are mostly replying to trolls staing "EVE is only FiS" and "WiS cause players to unsub" and so on.
As well as you'd know better as the large majority of people talking in this thread is, in a way or another, firmly committed that WiS makes sense only integrated with EVE main gameplay. As well as CCP OP. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
538
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 20:31:00 -
[3276] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Then you'd know better as these people are mostly replying to trolls staing "EVE is only FiS" and "WiS cause players to unsub" and so on. So the response to the idea that WiS and FiS are completely seperate is to refer to it as a second community?
You're right, there's something about this thread I'm not quite getting. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 20:43:00 -
[3277] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Thetabetalpha wrote:Why would it be another game? One universe with multiple aspects with WiS as "meaningful" avatar game with the same players. Really? Because I see pro-WiS people using phrases like "two niches" and "both communities". Doesn't sound the same players to me. Guess what caused it? Pro-FiS trolling this thread all over the place. But WiS w/o FiS won't survive either. And while FiS is in not in dire need of WiS to sustain as of now, some day it is going to be to late to act. All while the community is split up on the issues because everybody "pulls the blanket" on their own side.
Crumplecorn wrote:See, when I can sub in a game separate from EVE and you paragraph still basically makes sense, I kinda don't get the "I'm not talking about a new game" vibe. Dust is on a different platform and the planetary bombardment part where Eve "connects" to it is rather meaningless, for the most of eve anyways. The games are separated pretty much twice - via platforms and lack of meaningful interaction. Eve characters cannot descend onto planets, Dust players hardly have effect on Eve, well, some FW.
Eve outgrew the initial narrow vision of "spaceships only" long ago (CCP Torfifrans explains it.)
Instead of developing WiS all the way split into many projects. The only way for Eve to survive through competition is to grow, and sustaining practically the same amount of subs throughout the years whereas so many popular MMOs have millions is hardly growth. It has not direct competitor yet, though some may argue that some of SC raised money is pretty much out of CCP's pockets. Game developers compete for the player-base, and Eve deserves much bigger playerbase, not as niche, "we are so pro elite-gamers-rest-mmo-suck playerbase." |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
538
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 20:59:00 -
[3278] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Dust is on a different platform and the planetary bombardment part where Eve "connects" to it is rather meaningless, for the most of eve anyways. The games are separated pretty much twice - via platforms and lack of meaningful interaction. Eve characters cannot descend onto planets, Dust players hardly have effect on Eve, well, some FW. Not the point. Point is, you described a game as divorced from EVE as DUST. The fact that it would be built into the client changes nothing.
Crumplecorn wrote:Instead of developing WiS all the way split into many projects. The only way for Eve to survive through competition is to grow, and sustaining practically the same amount of subs throughout the years whereas so many popular MMOs have millions is hardly growth. It has not direct competitor yet, though some may argue that some of SC raised money is pretty much out of CCP's pockets. Game developers compete for the player-base, and Eve deserves much bigger playerbase, not as niche, "we are so pro elite-gamers-rest-mmo-suck playerbase." Comparing a niche game to popular MMOGs is pointless, it'll never have that many subs. You say that EVE needs to grow and deserves more players, but you describe an addition marketed at people who don't want to play EVE as it is; building an effectively seperate game inside EVE. I'm all for expanding the scope and playerbase of EVE; that is not the same thing as building an alternative for people who don't like EVE, attaching it to EVE, and declaring the horrible frankenstein you have created to be EVE.
If you add WiS in such a way that you end with "two communities" or the need for split expansions to keep "both sides" happy, then you have done nothing for the established playerbase of FiS, it's (fictional) decline will continue, WiS will be dragged down with it, and that will be that. (imo) [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
37
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 21:52:00 -
[3279] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Point is, you described a game as divorced from EVE as DUST. The fact that it would be built into the client changes nothing. What exactly did I describe? It is your problem if you see that there's no way to implement wis w/o getting intricately tied into Eve.
Eve has been a niche game for too long, doesn't mean it has to stay that way either. I am not linking Torfifrans video again - you ignored that pretty well, didn't you?
Crumplecorn wrote:You say that EVE needs to grow and deserves more players, but you describe an addition marketed at people who don't want to play EVE as it is; building an effectively separate game inside EVE. I'm all for expanding the scope and playerbase of EVE; that is not the same thing as building an alternative for people who don't like EVE, attaching it to EVE, and declaring the horrible frankenstein you have created to be EVE. It doesn't take much to put words in somebody's mouth, does it? If you see WiS in a completely separate way from FiS, if you see it somehow splitting community in two, no matter how anyone tries to lay it out for you, you are going to see it that way. There're examples throughout the thread posted how many ppl envision WiS and how it ties into Eve w/o being separated from core game play. Feel free to read through 157 pages, except something tells me you are going to cherry-pick the negatives.
Crumplecorn wrote:If you add WiS in such a way that you end with "two communities" or the need for split expansions to keep "both sides" happy, then you have done nothing for the established playerbase of FiS, it's (fictional) decline will continue, WiS will be dragged down with it, and that will be that. (imo) Would make no sense for CCP to do it. Might be the reason it takes 'em so long to find that "meaningful" way of implementation. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
540
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 22:16:00 -
[3280] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:It doesn't take much to put words in somebody's mouth, does it? If you see WiS in a completely separate way from FiS, if you see it somehow splitting community in two, no matter how anyone tries to lay it out for you, you are going to see it that way. I'm not the one talking about designing WiS to bring in a new set of players who aren't interested in the spaceship game. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
637
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 22:47:00 -
[3281] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I think that's unfair. The people in favour of WIS are no less convinced that EVE is dying than the FIS only crowd.
[...]
As mentioned in previous posts I advocate the twin focus approach to WIS and FIS so that every expansion from here on in offers a little to both communities. Here again is the issue I spotted when I skimmed the last few pages of this thread. "Both communities". "Twin approach". The style of the talk is that of bringing in a whole new seperate group of players to EVE (I think I saw someone saying something like "two niches is better than one"?). I remember when that used to be a caricature of WiS that the anti-WiS crowd used to make it sound bad; that it would just be barbies-in-space for people who couldn't hack EVE itself. WiS used to be about adding to the substance of the game for the existing players, and maybe attracting new people who would initially come for the avatar content, but would stay for the spaceships. And while I'm sure you'll say that that hasn't changed, people are now talking about WiS as a new revenue stream for EVE, in the same way that DUST and WoD are (supposed to be) for CCP. EVE has plateaued because CCP have directed their efforts to other games, and what I am seeing is the suggestion that they should (or even need to) direct even more of their efforts away from EVE and into another game, but this time we'll build it into the client and call it part of EVE to make the sub numbers get bigger without actually solving the 'problem' of EVE's plateau. What is the idea that EVE needs a new game built into it for a new playerbase in order to survive if not the idea that EVE, the spaceship game, is dying?
I am not advocating a new game built into the client for a new playerbase the incarna client and CQ is already there. I am just advocating that its gets some development time just like SOV, POS and starbase structures and ship rebalancing.
I agree with all of your other points which are well made. SIde projects like Dust and Valkyrie which will never pay the bills are the real threat to eve's survival. If they built those engines and game play into the existing PC/MAC client in a clever way they might stand a chance of some success, but as separate projects set in New Eden they are worthless and as far as I can see have absolutely zero future as console games. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
802
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 22:58:00 -
[3282] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Just look at PCU versus marketing expense
I wasn't aware that you had access to data on their marketing expense ;)
But look back on you data, Eve is a very successful niche game.
So far no other game has come close and it doesn't look like any of the upcoming games are even trying.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
637
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:01:00 -
[3283] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:
As well as you'd know better as the large majority of people talking in this thread is, in a way or another, firmly committed that WiS makes sense only integrated with EVE main gameplay. As well as CCP OP.
Agreed, I would also add that If there's a split anywhere in eve that created the two camps we have today it was caused by the FIS crowd saying that eve is only about spaceships, that's like saying that Grand Theft Auto is only about stealing cars, when clearly it's evolved beyond that. The pro WIS players are actually unifiers that want everyone to get the game they want in Eve and as such as unselfish they don't mind the FIS supporters getting new ships and new space based game mechanics and deployable structures because they understand that it benefits everyone, the whole community.
If anything is going to reduce subscriber numbers in the future it's the FIS crowd's and their selfish instance that their playstyle and type of in game activity is the only way to play EVE, the one true path so to speak. It's becoming a religion for them and we all know where that leads... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
637
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:02:00 -
[3284] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Just look at PCU versus marketing expense
I wasn't aware that you had access to data on their marketing expense ;) But look back on you data, Eve is a very successful niche game. So far no other game has come close and it doesn't look like any of the upcoming games are even trying.
CCP would rather it not be a niche game though. That's why they are looking for mass market appeal with shooters and consoles. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
802
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:04:00 -
[3285] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote: I am not advocating a new game built into the client for a new playerbase the incarna client and CQ is already there.
Except that it's not useful for anything more than a barely mobile avatar in a single room.
Now, instead of the regular Sims in space or that stuff can you present any valid addition to game play that could be added using the current state of code or a minor tweak?
All this time post incarna and one single solid idea has been posted, and it was shot down by CCP.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
802
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:06:00 -
[3286] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
CCP would rather it not be a niche game though. That's why they are looking for mass market appeal with shooters and consoles.
CCP =/= EVE
Which is why they have those other games. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
637
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:11:00 -
[3287] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: I am not advocating a new game built into the client for a new playerbase the incarna client and CQ is already there.
Except that it's not useful for anything more than a barely mobile avatar in a single room. Now, instead of the regular Sims in space or that stuff can you present any valid addition to game play that could be added using the current state of code or a minor tweak? All this time post incarna and one single solid idea has been posted, and it was shot down by CCP.
Station D-scan, visit CQ click D-scan on your big screen and you get to see what is outside the station up to the 14au maximum without having to undock using the station's sensors as clearly your ship is in the hanger. Not everyone has got an alt outside and not everyone flies in small gangs with scouts, plus this is really easy to implement within the existing code and is easily supported by the existing lore. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
637
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:15:00 -
[3288] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
CCP would rather it not be a niche game though. That's why they are looking for mass market appeal with shooters and consoles.
CCP =/= EVE Which is why they have those other games.
That is not even a sensible answer. At no time did I suggest that CCP = EVE. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
802
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:18:00 -
[3289] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: I am not advocating a new game built into the client for a new playerbase the incarna client and CQ is already there.
Except that it's not useful for anything more than a barely mobile avatar in a single room. Now, instead of the regular Sims in space or that stuff can you present any valid addition to game play that could be added using the current state of code or a minor tweak? All this time post incarna and one single solid idea has been posted, and it was shot down by CCP. Station D-scan, visit CQ click D-scan on your big screen and you get to see what is outside the station up to the 14au maximum without having to undock using the station's sensors as clearly your ship is in the hanger. Not everyone has got an alt outside and not everyone flies in small gangs with scouts, plus this is really easy to implement within the existing code and is easily supported by the existing lore. And that would need any Avatar based gameplay how? It would be much easier just to allow us to open Dscan while docked,
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
802
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:20:00 -
[3290] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
CCP would rather it not be a niche game though. That's why they are looking for mass market appeal with shooters and consoles.
CCP =/= EVE Which is why they have those other games. That is not even a sensible answer. At no time did I suggest that CCP = EVE. EvE is a niche game, it doesn't mean that any other game from CCP will be, or in the same niche.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2687
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:21:00 -
[3291] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Just look at PCU versus marketing expense
I wasn't aware that you had access to data on their marketing expense ;)
Of course I have it, their financial statements are publicly available on their website.
Here's a summary I made some months ago:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3679134#post3679134
Quote:CCP game revenue 2008: 41,668,893 CCP game revenue 2009: 51,782,424 CCP game revenue 2010: 57,428,530 CCP game revenue 2011: 63,323,357 CCP game revenue 2012: 64,436,996
CCP marketing expense 2008: (8,524,124) CCP marketing expense 2009: (9,410,916) CCP marketing expense 2010: (9,769,965) CCP marketing expense 2010: (9,769,965) CCP marketing expense 2011: (9,912,335) CCP marketing expense 2012: (12,567,302)
CCP research and development expense 2008: (7,868,828) CCP research and development expense 2009: (9,342,375) CCP research and development expense 2010: (11,127,383) CCP research and development expense 2011: (12,972,482) CCP research and development expense 2012: (16,513,666)
CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2008: 5,532,343 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2009: 6,020,872 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2010: 5,482,264 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2011: 8,817,262 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2012: 4,597,556
2013 january-june trends vs 2012 january-june:
Game revenue UP by 4.3 million USD Marketing expense UP by 1.9 million USD Research and development UP by 4.4 million USD
Quote:But look back on you data, Eve is a very successful niche game.
So far no other game has come close and it doesn't look like any of the upcoming games are even trying.
Well, currently SC haves 325,490 supporters, which are more unique customers than EVE haves. And SC aims straight at the core of the following EVE demographics:
- "Casual" players - Solo players - PvE players - Hisec players - aspiring avatar PvP players - aspiring avatar PvE players
That's about 60 to 80% of the subscriber base. They simply are too many as to disregard the chances that a fraction of them actually unsub to never come back.
And, of course, there's Elite: Dangerous too. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
637
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:25:00 -
[3292] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
CCP would rather it not be a niche game though. That's why they are looking for mass market appeal with shooters and consoles.
CCP =/= EVE Which is why they have those other games. That is not even a sensible answer. At no time did I suggest that CCP = EVE. EvE is a niche game, it doesn't mean that any other game from CCP will be, or in the same niche.
I hope you are right, that Dust really takes off and that aur store pays the bills, I hope Valkyrie is a blast too and really popular because CCP are talented and clever and really deserve some good press, they deserve another big hit, something that makes them so much money that they can afford to develop eve plus their other games into the awesome vision that they've demonstrated to us all. It's richly deserved but honestly I think CCP are shooting themsleves in the foot by developing new games on a shoestring. It's like trying to feed a family of 5 with just enough food for 2. Everyone eats a little but no-one feels satisfied. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
545
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:29:00 -
[3293] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I am not advocating a new game built into the client for a new playerbase the incarna client and CQ is already there. I am just advocating that its gets some development time just like SOV, POS and starbase structures and ship rebalancing. Well then we are in agreement, as I have always supported WiS as long as it is aimed at EVE players and not at non-EVE players (and not as some half-baked response to a vapourware non-competitor, but that's another story).
I like the side projects though, as long they don't fail so hard that they drag EVE down. Only so much of the Sci-Fi Simulator vision can be achieved within one client. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
803
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:31:00 -
[3294] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I stand corrected ;)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Well, currently SC haves 325,490 supporters, which are more unique customers than EVE haves. And SC aims straight at the core of the following EVE demographics:
- "Casual" players - Solo players - PvE players - Hisec players - aspiring avatar PvP players - aspiring avatar PvE players
That's about 60 to 80% of the subscriber base. They simply are too many as to disregard the chances that a fraction of them actually unsub to never come back.
And, of course, there's Elite: Dangerous too.
Ah, that's where we differ.
I regard myself as a laid back indy style eve player, and I've looked at both and I haven't seen anything that would challenge EvE.
And when it comes to SC, it's still a big wager if it's going to happen, or if it's an Eve-style heist in RL ;) CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:51:00 -
[3295] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Thetabetalpha wrote:It doesn't take much to put words in somebody's mouth, does it? If you see WiS in a completely separate way from FiS, if you see it somehow splitting community in two, no matter how anyone tries to lay it out for you, you are going to see it that way. I'm not the one talking about designing WiS to bring in a new set of players who aren't interested in the spaceship game. You are the one twisting the words though. Because I was talking about designing WiS that makes new player interested in Eve as a whole (no, not just in WiS part.)
The way it is designed now - new player w/o guidance gets to run horrendous pve content, gets bored to death in a couple weeks and leaves. If they do not get into pvp by themselves in time, they end up staying carebears or leave the game. Many simply contribute it to the famous learning curve, personally I blame it on poor/outdated interaction design(lacks wis and/or better UI design) & lack of well-developed pve content, which could keep the player interested long enough to get into the core of the game.
Another example: the current system of starting NPC corps - newbies are separated from corporation chat - for the obvious reasons. But in WiS environment recruitment of new players could be done much easier. New player training sessions started by CCP could be enhanced by that also.
p.s. Before someone plugs in "eve is all about PvP" I am going to ask - why add meaningless isk grind then? |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
546
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 23:56:00 -
[3296] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:The way it is designed now - new player w/o guidance gets to run horrendous pve content, gets bored to death in a couple weeks and leaves. If they do not get into pvp by themselves in time, they end up staying carebears or leave the game I agree that this happens, but it happens because, as you say, they are only presented crappy PvE content. If, instead, they are present WiS and not even shown the spaceships initally, how can that make things anything but worse? [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Cpt Tirel
77
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 00:19:00 -
[3297] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:Thetabetalpha wrote:The way it is designed now - new player w/o guidance gets to run horrendous pve content, gets bored to death in a couple weeks and leaves. If they do not get into pvp by themselves in time, they end up staying carebears or leave the game I agree that this happens, but it happens because, as you say, they are only presented crappy PvE content. If, instead, they are present WiS and not even shown the spaceships initally, how can that make things anything but worse?
The OP of this tread speaks of WIS PvE like extravehicular activity and exploration, if it was done well the PvE of this game would keep new players here much longer. It is also a type of WiS that is not limited to stations, so it would probably work nicely with the sandbox. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
546
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 00:24:00 -
[3298] - Quote
Cpt Tirel wrote:The OP of this tread speaks of WIS PvE like extravehicular activity and exploration, if it was done well the PvE of this game would keep new players here much longer. It is also a type of WiS that is not limited to stations, so it would probably work nicely with the sandbox. Good point, non-station WiS had slipped my mind. Would love to see that sort of thing in the game. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Rain6636
Team Evil
825
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 02:34:00 -
[3299] - Quote
you guys are so mean for calling EVE a cult or niche game Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Flamespar
Woof Club
951
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 03:06:00 -
[3300] - Quote
Rain6636 wrote:you guys are so mean for calling EVE a cult or niche game
Kill the unbeliever!!! I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
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Rain6636
Team Evil
831
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 07:21:00 -
[3301] - Quote
I see what you're saying, but I think it's hurtful to say because it's more false than it is true. Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Flamespar
Woof Club
953
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 09:34:00 -
[3302] - Quote
I made a funny
https://twitter.com/Flamespar/status/409615600390909952/photo/1/large
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2691
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 09:35:00 -
[3303] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: I stand corrected ;) Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Well, currently SC haves 325,490 supporters, which are more unique customers than EVE haves. And SC aims straight at the core of the following EVE demographics:
- "Casual" players - Solo players - PvE players - Hisec players - aspiring avatar PvP players - aspiring avatar PvE players
That's about 60 to 80% of the subscriber base. They simply are too many as to disregard the chances that a fraction of them actually unsub to never come back.
And, of course, there's Elite: Dangerous too.
Ah, that's where we differ. I regard myself as a laid back indy style eve player, and I've looked at both and I haven't seen anything that would challenge EvE. And when it comes to SC, it's still a big wager if it's going to happen, or if it's an Eve-style heist in RL ;)
So, according to you, people like you are not interested with other games. Good for you and for CCP. But people like you are a minority.
I am the only person i knew 5 years ago who still is playing the game. I've seen many people leave, usually in their second to third year, once they mastered something that was not PvP and found themselves locked in a dead end.
EVE, as most products, haves a lot of wrong customers. WoW haves them too, BTW. The question is, should CCP try to provide the wrong customers with content suit to them? If people are in EVE for something that's not PvP, should they get such content?
The answer is not simple.
IF the game thrives, the answer is "probably not". IF the game stagnates, the answer is "probably yes". IF the game shrinks, the answer is "it's too late to question".
And the game is stagnating. It has burned out every non-PvP that could be interested with EVE and now is burning the pool of former customers that could return if they had new toys.
"I played Elite, played Privateer, played Freelancer, played the X-series, what comes next?"
Currently, the only thing it's EVE Online, a game that's unlike those because it's built on ruthless PvP. Either you develop a taste for ruthless PvP or you're toast in a couple of years once you master whatever non-PvP you picked when you decided that PvP was not your piece of cake (not a unusual occurence, since only 27% of players stated that PvP was a reason to join EVE).
People who don't like PvP and avoid it by any means are a majority in EVE. They are CCP's "wrong customers", and what should CCP do about them?
According to a vocal minority, f*** them. Make them quit, let them quit, they don't need non-believers in their little cult game.
According to CCP's stakeholders, keep them paying, their monies are necesary.
According to a few EVE lovers, they should get better non-PvP FiS content, for the good of the game.
According to a few EVE lovers, they should get non-FiS content, for the long term good of the game.
According to CCP, they must provide them more PvP so they "discover" that they like it after all. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2691
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 09:47:00 -
[3304] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:Thetabetalpha wrote:It doesn't take much to put words in somebody's mouth, does it? If you see WiS in a completely separate way from FiS, if you see it somehow splitting community in two, no matter how anyone tries to lay it out for you, you are going to see it that way. I'm not the one talking about designing WiS to bring in a new set of players who aren't interested in the spaceship game. You are the one twisting the words though. Because I was talking about designing WiS that makes new player interested in Eve as a whole (no, not just in WiS part.) The way it is designed now - new player w/o guidance gets to run horrendous pve content, gets bored to death in a couple weeks and leaves. If they do not get into pvp by themselves in time, they end up staying carebears or leave the game. Many simply contribute it to the famous learning curve, personally I blame it on poor/outdated interaction design(lacks wis and/or better UI design) & lack of well-developed pve content, which could keep the player interested long enough to get into the core of the game. Another example: the current system of starting NPC corps - newbies are separated from corporation chat - for the obvious reasons. But in WiS environment recruitment of new players could be done much easier. New player training sessions started by CCP could be enhanced by that also. p.s. Before someone plugs in "eve is all about PvP" I am going to ask - why add meaningless isk grind then?
I have a better plan: If they like the game but don't like PvP, provide non-PvP endgame before other games do the trick and take your wrong customers.
Also, becoming a long term player should not be an accident, but something that happened naturally. If what happens naturally is that noobs become PvErs, being a PvEr should be a viable way to stay in the game.
Expecting that people become good customers only if they pick a good sovereignty holding nullsec PvP corporation (after no less than 4 uninformed random decissions) doesn't leads to having a lot of good customers.
"Many are the called, few the chosen" is good for feeling snub about how damn good are your good customers, but makes for awful poor paying of the bills. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2729
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 09:50:00 -
[3305] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Well, currently SC haves 325,490 supporters, which are more unique customers than EVE haves. And SC aims straight at the core of the following EVE demographics:
- "Casual" players - Solo players - PvE players - Hisec players - aspiring avatar PvP players - aspiring avatar PvE players Star Citizen is claiming to be every game of every genre ever in one package with a cherry on top, of course it aims at a lot of Eve's demographics.
Let's see if it ever gets beyond the "Give Chris Roberts a thousand dollars and get a screenshot of a spaceship" stage first. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1549
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 09:58:00 -
[3306] - Quote
So I've discovered Star Trek Online in Thursday. It has avatar gameplay, now I can't force myself to return to EVE...
P.S. STO simply copied "Pirates of Burning Sea" gameplay - I like it. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2692
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 11:28:00 -
[3307] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:So I've discovered Star Trek Online in Thursday. It has avatar gameplay, now I can't force myself to return to EVE...
P.S. STO simply copied "Pirates of Burning Sea" gameplay - I like it.
Oh, seriously?
Damn, I played POTBS for a while, until the economy messed up and PvPrs started killing the game, a process that began with the nerf of the Couronne and become worst as FLS catered to the noisy PvP cuckoo chicks and gave the finger to the loyal PvE base.
I heard rumors that, well after becoming F2P, things were so messed up that players would be buying PvE charters with real money only to be camped at undock and lose them to PvP players which in turn would run the PvE bonus missions... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
187
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 14:01:00 -
[3308] - Quote
EvE is a pvp game. Deal with it. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2694
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 14:13:00 -
[3309] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:EvE is a pvp game. Deal with it.
Most players don't pay for the PvP. Deal with it. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 15:23:00 -
[3310] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:If people are in EVE for something that's not PvP
here is your misconception everything in EVE is PvP and I do mean everything.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:EvE is a pvp game. Deal with it. Most players don't pay for the PvP. Deal with it. you're funny Ish |
|
Amber Kurvora
119
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 15:30:00 -
[3311] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:EvE is a pvp game. Deal with it.
In part - Eve is what ever you want it to be (within the constrains of the mechanics). It's just we like competing due to our genes going "Oi! I want to get replicated, go be manly and prove how big your ***** is by killing stuffs!". Some people just don't want to deal with that ****. You cannot force them to play the game how you desire to play it, which ultimately makes me a happy person, because screw having to live by one person's ideals about how things should be.
Plus...Eve is a sandbox, innit. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2697
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 16:51:00 -
[3312] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:If people are in EVE for something that's not PvP here is your misconception everything in EVE is PvP and I do mean everything. Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:EvE is a pvp game. Deal with it. Most players don't pay for the PvP. Deal with it. you're funny Ish
For the MILLIONTH TIME: When I say "PvP" in this thread, I refer to ship to ship combat.
Thank you.
. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-'" " " " " " " " " "``~., . . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ."-., . . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ":, . . . . . . . .. .. /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ., . . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,} . . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.} . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:". . . ./ . . . . . . . /. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./ . . . . . . . /__.(. . ."~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./ . . . . . . /(_. . "~,_. . . .."~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/ . . . .. .{.._$;_. . ."=,_. . . ."-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~"; /. .. .} . . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . ."=-._. . .";,,./`. . /" . . . ./. .. ../ . . . .. . .`~,. . .."~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../ . . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-" . . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... . / . . . . . . `~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....,__ ,,_. . . . . }.>-._. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-, . .. `=~-,__. . . `,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `. . . . . . ..__ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==`` . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..` The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
806
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 17:08:00 -
[3313] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
People who don't like PvP and avoid it by any means are a majority in EVE. They are CCP's "wrong customers", and what should CCP do about them?
I'm one of those.
I've not been involved in any serious PvP for my 5 years (except getting blown up, running suicide tackle or using an alt or 5 to suicide annoying bots).
And I have to admit that I still have fun in EvE.
If it wasn't for suicide ganks, annoying wardecs, market scams and all kind of day to day life in EvE it would be boring.
I can create a spreadsheet for my next run of production, but that spreadsheet can't cover the social interaction that is the core of an MMO.
Having to use my (possible limited) cognitive abilities to navigate that ocean of conflicting targets is what makes EvE fun for me.
I might be stupid, but playing a game where I am a little fish in a large ocean full of hungry and ruthless sharks is exactly what I find fun.
But I can't avoid that I'm also senior project lead and systems architect.
When there's an issue in EvE, real or felt, the analyst kicks in.
And it's possibly hinting at some diagnosis but I will automatically break it down to known facts and start planning for a way to solve the issue.
Which is when people post stuff that I find initiated but wrong (in my view), I can't help to object ;)
Btw. Fazmarai, Battlecruiser 3000 AD That's what SC makes me think of CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
645
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 17:56:00 -
[3314] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:EvE is a pvp game. Deal with it.
Eve is a living work of Science Fiction, a sandbox mmo.
Star Conflict is a PVP game. You can fight all day, get paid cash, you don't lose anything when your ship blows up and there's no pesky clones.
Star Conflict is that way ----> Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
806
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 18:00:00 -
[3315] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Eve is a living work of Science Fiction, a sandbox mmo.
EvE is also a commercial enterprise by a small indie studio.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
645
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 18:12:00 -
[3316] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Eve is a living work of Science Fiction, a sandbox mmo.
EvE is also a commercial enterprise by a small indie studio.
I refer to your earlier post that Eve is all about PVP, you reply as highlighted above is utterly random and adds nothing to the discussion. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
807
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 18:24:00 -
[3317] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Eve is a living work of Science Fiction, a sandbox mmo.
EvE is also a commercial enterprise by a small indie studio. I refer to your earlier post that Eve is all about PVP, you reply as highlighted above is utterly random and adds nothing to the discussion. How can it not?
Any idea about how to advance anything in EvE comes down to a very solid fact.
That EvE is a commercial enterprise by a small indie studio.
Anything we want or anything the devs want or any thing their management want comes down to that.
So while I agree that eve is a very much living work of science fiction, and one that I very much enjoy being a tiny part of, I refuse to ignore that it's also a commercial enterprise. CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
752
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 18:31:00 -
[3318] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:EvE is a pvp game. Deal with it.
You forgot to repeat the other EVE-O forum meme:
"EVE has sound?" "EVE is a spaceship only game" "May I have your stuff?" "Nerf AFK cloackers"
And
"I'm not a moron, I'm only autistic plix help me to understand"
|
Job Valador
Super Moose Defence Force Mortem Sigil
406
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 20:16:00 -
[3319] - Quote
Wow this thread is still kicking!
Weird thing I did today in game. Went into CQ and just held the W key into "the door". Didnt budge. Really wanted it too TT_TT.
/gave useless story because everything that could be said has been said. only feelings of longing of lost opportunity remain. "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
648
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 21:38:00 -
[3320] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Eve is a living work of Science Fiction, a sandbox mmo.
EvE is also a commercial enterprise by a small indie studio. I refer to your earlier post that Eve is all about PVP, you reply as highlighted above is utterly random and adds nothing to the discussion. How can it not? Any idea about how to advance anything in EvE comes down to a very solid fact. That EvE is a commercial enterprise by a small indie studio. Anything we want or anything the devs want or any thing their management want comes down to that. So while I agree that eve is a very much living work of science fiction, and one that I very much enjoy being a tiny part of, I refuse to ignore that it's also a commercial enterprise.
Problem is that spreadsheets in space don't sell that well, plus FIS only content will always remain niche. Times have changed and if CCP wants to stay on top of the game they need to pull a new rabbit out of the hat, whether that's WIS content or something else entirely is up to them. As it stands CCP are market leaders in what they do, if they fail to act and pull a shiny new and subscription selling rabbit out that hat they will become market followers. As a person who runs my owm company in RL I know which one of those two I'd rather be. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2700
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 22:45:00 -
[3321] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Eve is a living work of Science Fiction, a sandbox mmo.
EvE is also a commercial enterprise by a small indie studio. I refer to your earlier post that Eve is all about PVP, you reply as highlighted above is utterly random and adds nothing to the discussion. How can it not? Any idea about how to advance anything in EvE comes down to a very solid fact. That EvE is a commercial enterprise by a small indie studio. Anything we want or anything the devs want or any thing their management want comes down to that. So while I agree that eve is a very much living work of science fiction, and one that I very much enjoy being a tiny part of, I refuse to ignore that it's also a commercial enterprise. Problem is that spreadsheets in space don't sell that well, plus FIS only content will always remain niche. Times have changed and if CCP wants to stay on top of the game they need to pull a new rabbit out of the hat, whether that's WIS content or something else entirely is up to them. As it stands CCP are market leaders in what they do, if they fail to act and pull a shiny new and subscription selling rabbit out that hat they will become market followers. As a person who runs my owm company in RL I know which one of those two I'd rather be.
Space games are coming back. Today the hottest new it's "No man's Sky", an indie game with a fully procedural universe, being developed by 4 guys who just want to define what is "next generation". Heh.
34 million dollars kickstarted for Star Citizen and 9 companies involved on the making.
David Braben saying that yes, this time, Elite 4, err, 5, err, Dangerous is 2 million pounds for real.
Egosoft paddling coal like champs to keep the X: Rebirth machine chugging towards Expected Quality.
And meanwhile EVE is walking towards adding more conquerable/exploitable space over which fight rmassive battles, a succesful concept beloved by 1 in 10 players.
What, oh, what could be wrong with CCP focused on pleasing a tiny minority as everyone and their uncle are aiming at the juicy core of EVE misfits? The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Flamespar
Woof Club
958
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 04:02:00 -
[3322] - Quote
I think it would be cool if storyline agents actually came to see you personally.
Sansha storyline agent dropping by I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
331
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 04:03:00 -
[3323] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Star Citizen is claiming to be every game of every genre ever in one package with a cherry on top, of course it aims at a lot of Eve's demographics.
Let's see if it ever gets beyond the "Give Chris Roberts a thousand dollars and get a screenshot of a spaceship" stage first.
SC is promising to be a complete space based sci-fi simulator. I'm pretty sure there is only the one genre they are claiming to be.
Also, they are well beyond screenshots, but I am sure you are well aware of this as there are plenty of goons already active in SC.
|
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1660
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 04:42:00 -
[3324] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Star Citizen is claiming to be every game of every genre ever in one package with a cherry on top, of course it aims at a lot of Eve's demographics.
Let's see if it ever gets beyond the "Give Chris Roberts a thousand dollars and get a screenshot of a spaceship" stage first. SC is promising to be a complete space based sci-fi simulator. I'm pretty sure there is only the one genre they are claiming to be. Also, they are well beyond screenshots, but I am sure you are well aware of this as there are plenty of goons already active in SC.
Two very different games thankfully. SC is well past screenshots, with detailed ships present in the hangars, even if you can't do much with them besides hop in the cockpit, or walk around inside. Shaping up very nicely though.
Given the most common response in this thread is likely, "EVE is all about PvP," as usual, I don't think they are aimed at EVEs demographic at all. EVEs demographic has always been about large-scale alliance warfare, mining rocks in space, and shooting player or NPC ships in space.
Mission Runners, (Farmers), Miners (Farmers), and Alliance Fleets in a nutshell. There's also the players of the market and economy, and the players who just run around and do stuff. SC doesn't have the capacity for fleet warfare EVE has, nor is it expected to have farmable missions in the sense EVE does. Neither is it really expected to have the mass player driven economy EVE has.
What it does have, is the ability to move about as a player character, get in ships and fly them here and there, wander about inside them, board or repel boarders on your ships, shoot other ships or objects in space. Also: wander about on planetary locations and interact with other players, shoot other players in first person combat if you so desire and happen to be somewhere that is possible.
Also available: have your character die a grisly death, (permanently), explore space and venture into territory dominated by alien species that are potentially hostile, trade, etc.. A lot really. Quite a bit left to be determined.
It isn't EVE, and the general consensus is that nobody wants it to be. Not even remotely.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
187
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 12:44:00 -
[3325] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:EvE is a pvp game. Deal with it. Most players don't pay for the PvP. Deal with it.
I think you are most definitely wrong. If you don't like pvp then you are playing the wrong game. Go back to WoW etc. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
958
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 13:32:00 -
[3326] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:EvE is a pvp game. Deal with it. Most players don't pay for the PvP. Deal with it. I think you are most definitely wrong. If you don't like pvp then you are playing the wrong game. Go back to WoW etc.
Simpleton. EVE is not just a pvp game. The only way you can maintain such a view is by ignoring the overwhelming evidence to the otherwise.
That must be a really nice rock you're living under. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
308
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 16:09:00 -
[3327] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote: I think you are most definitely wrong. If you don't like pvp then you are playing the wrong game. Go back to WoW etc.
As an experiment, go into highsec (where literally 90% of the Eve player base is) and move to a well populated system. Now look up the killboard of ten people and tell me how many of them are PvPers, or have better than a 50% efficiency. What you will likely find is that a very small percentage of them PvP regularly.
I am very pro (not pro AT) PvP. I have a trading/industry main (Davon) and a PvP alt, and I love Eve's PvP focus. It is what keeps me playing Eve. But frankly you and I are not a majority. Something that you should probably recognize before trying to use it as an argument on the forums. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
305
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 10:31:00 -
[3328] - Quote
I would think most people, even the highsec "carebears" enjoy EVE's sense of danger, that you are not 100% safe anywhere, ever. I know I do, that is part of my fascination with the game. What I bet they don't enjoy however is people trying to push them forcibly in to 0.0 (NERF HIGHSEC), where they cannot go for various reasons or just because they generally don't want to. |
Aldebaran Aubaris
Free-lances ACME Holding Conglomerate
16
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 10:39:00 -
[3329] - Quote
I've waited on and off a decade for this!
Maybe those locked doors at the back of the caprains quarters will lead somewhere soon! \O/ |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
573
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 11:40:00 -
[3330] - Quote
No. That was clear statement, 3 years for expanding spaceship gameplay. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2724
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 13:18:00 -
[3331] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:No. That was clear statement, 3 years for expanding spaceship nulllsec uberalliance space-holding gameplay.
FYP for reality. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Nadia Barsrallah
Nerbles
34
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 13:25:00 -
[3332] - Quote
Why do people think WiS should have no pvp?
If anything it should be pvp focused! all the chest-thumping pvpers in this game are the same lot who hide in stations and trash talk local.
Not everyone wants WiS to be a /dance RP thing
Eve really fails at its claim at being hardcore PvP when players are 100% invulnerble AND safe docked up. regardless of a system sec status/
Allow my dust toon to kick down a door and tea bag local trash talking Johny Kilboard.
seriously, grouping all WiS supporters as PvEing carebears space barbies is misleading, Some of want more pvp, more danger, more risk in this game.
CCP claiming eve is a hardcore pvp game is such fallacy, WiS is the perfect way to shake the game up and make trash talking "pvp" celebrities feel the vulnerbility they should feel. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
322
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 13:38:00 -
[3333] - Quote
Nadia Barsrallah wrote:Why do people think WiS should have no pvp? If anything it should be pvp focused! all the chest-thumping pvpers in this game are the same lot who hide in stations and trash talk local.
Not everyone wants WiS to be a /dance RP thing
Eve really fails at its claim at being hardcore PvP when players are 100% invulnerble AND safe docked up. regardless of a system sec status/
Allow my dust toon to kick down a door and tea bag local trash talking Johny Kilboard.
seriously, grouping all WiS supporters as PvEing carebears space barbies is misleading, Some of want more pvp, more danger, more risk in this game.
CCP claiming eve is a hardcore pvp game is such fallacy, WiS is the perfect way to shake the game up and make trash talking "pvp" celebrities feel the vulnerbility they should feel.
This. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
306
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 00:58:00 -
[3334] - Quote
Nadia Barsrallah wrote:Why do people think WiS should have no pvp?
Well, I know this isn't even a point worthy of consideration for most people, but unless you want to bin 10 years of backstory, it's because we die outside of our pods for real. We cannot use the DUST implants, the technology is inherently incompatible with capsuleer implants. CCP's story team has stated this numerous times on the fiction forum.
If you want more danger, just undock more often.
Again, I'm just full of crazy ideas here, but just maybe, EVE needs at least one safe haven, instead of one haven less. Preferably with something to do while waiting, be it minigames, "some stupid boardroom" where to plan travel routes or follow what other corpmates or even corporations are doing. Hell - finding drugs or other things to smuggle. One of the original plans for WIS I faintly recall hearing was to give smuggling and other crime as a profession a new life - stuff you "needed to do off the radar." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2729
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 07:51:00 -
[3335] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Nadia Barsrallah wrote:Why do people think WiS should have no pvp? Well, I know this isn't even a point worthy of consideration for most people, but unless you want to bin 10 years of backstory, it's because we die outside of our pods for real. We cannot use the DUST implants, the technology is inherently incompatible with capsuleer implants. CCP's story team has stated this numerous times on the fiction forum. If you want more danger, just undock more often.Again, I'm just full of crazy ideas here, but just maybe, EVE needs at least one safe haven, instead of one haven less. Preferably with something to do while waiting, be it minigames, "some stupid boardroom" where to plan travel routes or follow what other corpmates or even corporations are doing. Hell - finding drugs or other things to smuggle. One of the original plans for WIS I faintly recall hearing was to give smuggling and other crime as a profession a new life - stuff you "needed to do off the radar."
...and anyway we could always resort to proxy PvP, either with "drone clones" or VR environments. Obviously VR would be risk-free, so the idea of drone clones would be better suit to EVE.
VR, on the other hand, would open massive opportunities for alternate gameplay, but CCP are not the right guys to dare to do that. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
306
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 10:42:00 -
[3336] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:...and anyway we could always resort to proxy PvP, either with " drone clones" or VR environments. Obviously VR would be risk-free, so the idea of drone clones would be better suit to EVE. VR, on the other hand, would open massive opportunities for alternate gameplay, but CCP are not the right guys to dare to do that.
The thought did cross my mind while making that post, but I thought that would defeat the point of non-consensual pvp (because, you would have to queue up for a pvp arena in order it to make storywise any sense), and, as silly as it sounds, I'd wager killing fake ... uh, even faker, fake avatars would be less thrilling than killing the "real" one. Human mind is just silly like that. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
367
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 11:53:00 -
[3337] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote: Well, I know this isn't even a point worthy of consideration for most people, but unless you want to bin 10 years of backstory, it's because we die outside of our pods for real
Your obviously not that au fait with Eve lore or back story. The Broker would disagree. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
306
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 13:04:00 -
[3338] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:Your obviously not that au fait with Eve lore or back story. The Broker would disagree.
I have not read the novels, I've understood he plays a large part in one, but still one single chracter that happened to somehow cheat death due to "lol jove magic" (as far as I've been told) is not really a reason enough to claim that capsuleers are immortal outside of their pods. Because they're not. Here, a whole thread about the issue. And now that I think about I think The Broker now exists as a digital entity, altough even that's a bit much, he's supposedly more like the data ghosts in Dr. Who than anything you could deem actually living.
I've never once claimed I know the background fluff like the back of my hands, but this is one area in the lore I believe I do know enough. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2734
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 14:09:00 -
[3339] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:...and anyway we could always resort to proxy PvP, either with " drone clones" or VR environments. Obviously VR would be risk-free, so the idea of drone clones would be better suit to EVE. VR, on the other hand, would open massive opportunities for alternate gameplay, but CCP are not the right guys to dare to do that. The thought did cross my mind while making that post, but I thought that would defeat the point of non-consensual pvp (because, you would have to queue up for a pvp arena in order it to make storywise any sense), and, as silly as it sounds, I'd wager killing fake ... uh, even faker, fake avatars would be less thrilling than killing the "real" one. Human mind is just silly like that.
The drone clone concept was born as a tool for the exploration prototype, a way to justify why would a capsuleer leave his armed behemoth and go himself on foot rather than just send some of his 3,000 crew. Actually, drone clones could even be dpeloyed on DUST 514 (there is lore about capsuleers parcitipating as hackers in DUST battles).
PvP arenas could be just a scenario. Anything that happened outside of a station and risked death, could be done by a drone clone.
As for the value... come on, people find compelling to kill a "ship avatar", why not a human avatar with the face of your enemy? Specially if it's rigged with expensive augmentations? Maybe even, huh, lootable aumgmentations?
"Sniffer hacking module Mk II, used - ISK 12,451,000" "Aegis armored chest Mk I, new - ISK 25,478,960" "Cheetah powered leg, right, damaged - iSK 3,578,000" "Aztec in-blood medikit, 10 uses - ISK 500,000"
Huh. Excuse me for my walk in the clouds. Surely a Goon built gate so Goons can go to New Space is everything the game needs... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Nadia Barsrallah
Nerbles
37
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 14:09:00 -
[3340] - Quote
WiS could also be a great shake up for the sov grind
Sweeeping a station's interior would be alot more gameplay then F1 and watch a zillion HPs pixel itself to zero
the fact that this thread is 160 pages long and over a year old, should be enough to tell CCP that people are still interested in the broader concept of avatar gameplay
its not like there is any shortages of ideas from the community.
Its a little saddening that after all this time, that there hasn't been any update, or pulse on this topic from CCP, a dev blog, or anything. The commuinity still cares, does CCP?
|
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
306
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 15:53:00 -
[3341] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:PvP...
Yeah, whatever. I still think, if WIS comes before 2023, it should be extremely limited in terms of PvP. It could obviously be a part of it, but characters should not be killed while in station, because reasons already stated. I would rather see something else, entirely new content for WiS than just the same old "hurr durr must kill everyone and everything that disagrees with me." Like the aforementioned smuggling/crime professions could be developed further and made actual professions.
This is just my opinion, but EVE has well enough PvP. Restating my last advice; If you feel you're not in enough danger while playing EVE, undock more, **** off more people, you'll get your danger. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
368
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 16:34:00 -
[3342] - Quote
Capsuleers don't die outside of their pod. If they're killed, the new information (info since their last death) can't be transmitted, and so the clone that wakes up would recall nothing since their previous death. That's how the broker did it. He even woke up multiple clones and sent them off separately. They would take their life when they were done (more than one clone active at once, ie two of him or more).
Sure, that's really bad. But it's not death (well it is, but technically death is death whether your in your pod or not. The clone that wakes up is not the same person what-ever way you look at it).
You could avoid that with a simple clone vat in your ship. You would euthenise your current clone, move to the new clone and your information could then be saved. That way you would only loose the memories from the moment you left your ship, to the moment you died.
CCP wrote new lore for the Dust bunnies. It would take a very small leap of imagination to allow capsuleers the same privilege. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
2636
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 16:39:00 -
[3343] - Quote
Nadia Barsrallah wrote:Its a little saddening that after all this time, that there hasn't been any update, or pulse on this topic from CCP, a dev blog, or anything. The commuinity still cares, does CCP?
This. Absolutely this. It'd just be nice to see a senior EVE dev put out a blog along the lines of, say "yes, we're still interested in doing it, eventually, and we have ideas A, B and C about how to make it definitely EVE, but on foot. But we're going to do X, Y and Z first, and we don't anticipate that we'll be returning our attention to avatar-based gameply before 201x at the earliest."
Some insight into its status in the dev team would be truly welcome. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3623
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 16:51:00 -
[3344] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Just look at PCU versus marketing expense
I wasn't aware that you had access to data on their marketing expense ;) Of course I have it, their financial statements are publicly available on their website. Here's a summary I made some months ago: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3679134#post3679134 Quote:CCP game revenue 2008: 41,668,893 CCP game revenue 2009: 51,782,424 CCP game revenue 2010: 57,428,530 CCP game revenue 2011: 63,323,357 CCP game revenue 2012: 64,436,996
CCP marketing expense 2008: (8,524,124) CCP marketing expense 2009: (9,410,916) CCP marketing expense 2010: (9,769,965) CCP marketing expense 2010: (9,769,965) CCP marketing expense 2011: (9,912,335) CCP marketing expense 2012: (12,567,302)
CCP research and development expense 2008: (7,868,828) CCP research and development expense 2009: (9,342,375) CCP research and development expense 2010: (11,127,383) CCP research and development expense 2011: (12,972,482) CCP research and development expense 2012: (16,513,666)
CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2008: 5,532,343 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2009: 6,020,872 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2010: 5,482,264 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2011: 8,817,262 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2012: 4,597,556
2013 january-june trends vs 2012 january-june:
Game revenue UP by 4.3 million USD Marketing expense UP by 1.9 million USD Research and development UP by 4.4 million USD Quote:But look back on you data, Eve is a very successful niche game.
So far no other game has come close and it doesn't look like any of the upcoming games are even trying.
Well, currently SC haves 325,490 supporters, which are more unique customers than EVE haves. And SC aims straight at the core of the following EVE demographics: - "Casual" players - Solo players - PvE players - Hisec players - aspiring avatar PvP players - aspiring avatar PvE players That's about 60 to 80% of the subscriber base. They simply are too many as to disregard the chances that a fraction of them actually unsub to never come back. And, of course, there's Elite: Dangerous too.
Star Trek Online had 1 million subscribers (to a game people could actually play and had more than a hanger). it was supposed to be the end of EVE. SWTOR had more than that. Black prophecy never had that many but the hype was that it was supposed ot have killed EVE because at one point more people were playing it than EVE.
I remember the story of a feather weight boxer who won the world championship like 3 times and had a very good record but the sports reporters didn't think much of him. He famously asked "who do i have to kill to get some respect".
EVE has survived challeges to it's supremacy every year for 10 years. How many EVE killers does EVE have to survive to get some respect???
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
674
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 22:42:00 -
[3345] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Nadia Barsrallah wrote:Why do people think WiS should have no pvp? Well, I know this isn't even a point worthy of consideration for most people, but unless you want to bin 10 years of backstory, it's because we die outside of our pods for real. We cannot use the DUST implants, the technology is inherently incompatible with capsuleer implants. CCP's story team has stated this numerous times on the fiction forum. If you want more danger, just undock more often.Again, I'm just full of crazy ideas here, but just maybe, EVE needs at least one safe haven, instead of one haven less. Preferably with something to do while waiting, be it minigames, "some stupid boardroom" where to plan travel routes or follow what other corpmates or even corporations are doing. Hell - finding drugs or other things to smuggle. One of the original plans for WIS I faintly recall hearing was to give smuggling and other crime as a profession a new life - stuff you "needed to do off the radar."
WIS is supported in Canon with the Jita 1-1 chronicle in which a divergent clone of a capsuleer uses a special combination of drugs to move about in a soft clone that doesn't contain all of the skills he needs for FIS. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
674
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 22:56:00 -
[3346] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
Star Trek Online had 1 million subscribers (to a game people could actually play and had more than a hanger). it was supposed to be the end of EVE. SWTOR had more than that. Black prophecy never had that many but the hype was that it was supposed ot have killed EVE because at one point more people were playing it than EVE.
I remember the story of a feather weight boxer who won the world championship like 3 times and had a very good record but the sports reporters didn't think much of him. He famously asked "who do i have to kill to get some respect".
EVE has survived challeges to it's supremacy every year for 10 years. How many EVE killers does EVE have to survive to get some respect???
You're talking different demographics here though, Star Trek/Star Wars is too light and optimistic to satisfy the dark minds of the eve player base. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2740
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 23:18:00 -
[3347] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:PvP... Yeah, whatever. I still think, if WIS comes before 2023, it should be extremely limited in terms of PvP. It could obviously be a part of it, but characters should not be killed while in station, because reasons already stated. I would rather see something else, entirely new content for WiS than just the same old "hurr durr must kill everyone and everything that disagrees with me." Like the aforementioned smuggling/crime professions could be developed further and made actual professions. This is just my opinion, but EVE has well enough PvP. Restating my last advice; If you feel you're not in enough danger while playing EVE, undock more, **** off more people, you'll get your danger.
Hey, i avoid PvP and don't want PvP for avatars. But this is EVE and players will like to shoot each other's face, I am OK as long i am unkillable in a station -which doesn't means "safe", of course. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
371
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 23:22:00 -
[3348] - Quote
Here's the thing: Unless Goons or any number of nullsec alliances are the 'core' player base (something absolutely no one's numbers support), then this business with build-able gates to newspace is basically a waste of time and resources on the part of CCP.
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2740
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 23:24:00 -
[3349] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
Star Trek Online had 1 million subscribers (to a game people could actually play and had more than a hanger). it was supposed to be the end of EVE. SWTOR had more than that. Black prophecy never had that many but the hype was that it was supposed ot have killed EVE because at one point more people were playing it than EVE.
I remember the story of a feather weight boxer who won the world championship like 3 times and had a very good record but the sports reporters didn't think much of him. He famously asked "who do i have to kill to get some respect".
EVE has survived challeges to it's supremacy every year for 10 years. How many EVE killers does EVE have to survive to get some respect???
You're talking different demographics here though, Star Trek/Star Wars is too light and optimistic to satisfy the dark minds of the eve player base.
...and it's a franchise game. I don't have a specially high opinion of TV/Cinema SF franchises, including the 2 that easily come to mind. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Flamespar
Woof Club
963
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 01:55:00 -
[3350] - Quote
Another round of layoffs.
Perhaps the 3 year plan isn't all it's cracked up to be. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
|
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 03:05:00 -
[3351] - Quote
Quote:CCP today confirmed to Massively that rumored layoffs at their Atlanta studio were in fact true, stating that 15 positions were eliminated from the World of Darkness team as part of GÇ£strategic adjustments.GÇ¥ Uh, wouldn't it be better to move those Devs to work on Eve instead?
Layoff news makes me feel CCP's financial situation is really bad. "Plex for CCP" campaign? Anyone? |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
3623
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 05:04:00 -
[3352] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
Star Trek Online had 1 million subscribers (to a game people could actually play and had more than a hanger). it was supposed to be the end of EVE. SWTOR had more than that. Black prophecy never had that many but the hype was that it was supposed ot have killed EVE because at one point more people were playing it than EVE.
I remember the story of a feather weight boxer who won the world championship like 3 times and had a very good record but the sports reporters didn't think much of him. He famously asked "who do i have to kill to get some respect".
EVE has survived challeges to it's supremacy every year for 10 years. How many EVE killers does EVE have to survive to get some respect???
You're talking different demographics here though, Star Trek/Star Wars is too light and optimistic to satisfy the dark minds of the eve player base.
Which is why Star Citizen (a game with instancing, "private servers" and "pvp sliders" and a less forgiving corporate attitude to what every game except EVE would call griefing) also isn't going to be any kind a threat dispite the repeated proclaimations of some (just look at the SC thread in OOPE, see if you can see any familiar names to this thread lol).
The point is you can use EVE search to find the EXACT same kinds of "omg new game coming EVE is doomed" (from STO, SWTOR, Black Prohecy etc etc etc) thinking which has always proven to be untrue btw, as we have now with Star Citizen, Entopy, Elite Dangerous and now "No Man's Sky".
I just don't know why some people can't grasp the concept. The only thing that ever even slowed down EVE was CCP's missteps, and even if CCP folds EVE would most likely be sold because it's still viable. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2741
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 07:41:00 -
[3353] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Here's the thing: Unless Goons or any number of nullsec alliances are the 'core' player base (something absolutely no one's numbers support), then this business with build-able gates to newspace is basically a waste of time and resources on the part of CCP.
This. Either we all are terribly misguided and The True Numbers of EVE Population make the Hallelujah Plan one hell of a plan, or the Hallelujah Plan is based upon several business misconceptions all too common in the industry, namely:
- what you are selling may not be the same that your customers are buying - never take your marketing to the letter - the 20/80s are as sensitive to empty shops as everyone else
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
44
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 12:03:00 -
[3354] - Quote
Comparing EVE with a game that does not exist yet is stupid.
You cannot compare a game you know very well with a game you only saw some screenshots from. In the end it is the gameplay that makes for a succesful game |
Nadia Barsrallah
Nerbles
40
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 12:21:00 -
[3355] - Quote
The layoffs at white wolf doesn't look good for avatar gameplay :( |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1085
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 12:30:00 -
[3356] - Quote
I'm not sure why this thread is still going as i'm pretty sure that CCP have said they won't be doing any avatar gamplay for atleast 5 years.
I am of the opinion that Avatar gameplay has the biggest potential to add some exciting content that is dramatically different from anything we have see so far.
Currently CCP are planning on adding new space and i just don't see the point. There is still plenty of stuff stuff to improve in the space we have. Look at wormhole space - that has had next to know content added since it was released. +1 |
Erica Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration
1674
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 12:40:00 -
[3357] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I'm not sure why this thread is still going as i'm pretty sure that CCP have said they won't be doing any avatar gamplay for atleast 5 years. Regardless of timelines, known or unknown, there's still a lot of players enthusiastic about WiS. There's also players who can't stand the idea. Both types of people have opinions, and most opinionated people like to post in forum threads, and this is the closest thing to an official avatar-content thread in this forum..
That's why!
Edit: Oh, and bump! Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) H4WK. CEO | Just another innocent explorer-á pâä
Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
311
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 13:47:00 -
[3358] - Quote
People kept buggering CCP for avatar gameplay likely from the day EVE was released, I remember seeing posts about it somewhere around 2004-2005 already. And people will keep buggering CCP about it until they do it right. |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
375
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 14:03:00 -
[3359] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:People kept buggering CCP for avatar gameplay likely from the day EVE was released, I remember seeing posts about it somewhere around 2004-2005 already. And people will keep buggering CCP about it until they do it right.
I think that's very likely, as you say. I've highlighted a typo, that you might want to correct though (At least I hope it's a typo). I think you mean bugging...
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2749
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 20:50:00 -
[3360] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I'm not sure why this thread is still going as i'm pretty sure that CCP have said they won't be doing any avatar gamplay for atleast 5 years.
I am of the opinion that Avatar gameplay has the biggest potential to add some exciting content that is dramatically different from anything we have see so far.
Currently CCP are planning on adding new space and i just don't see the point. There is still plenty of stuff stuff to improve in the space we have. Look at wormhole space - that has had next to know content added since it was released.
Why talk about WiS? Because it's better than don't talk about it. No matter how the situation ends, doing nothing is the absolute worst possible case.
Let's say that Valkyrie lines CCP's pockets with money: WiS now, please! Let's say that EVE spirals down in flames and crashes: We told you so! Let's say that EVE makes to 20 years without changing nor WiS: would we be any worst than we are now? Let's say we quit EVE and never look back: we likely will be better than now.
As long as we keep talking we can't lose, and that's something already. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
804
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 21:43:00 -
[3361] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Why talk about WiS? Because it's better than don't talk about it. No matter how the situation ends, doing nothing is the absolute worst possible case.
Let's say that Valkyrie lines CCP's pockets with money: WiS now, please! Let's say that EVE spirals down in flames and crashes: We told you so! Let's say that EVE makes to 20 years without changing nor WiS: would we be any worst than we are now? Let's say we quit EVE and never look back: we likely will be better than now.
As long as we keep talking we can't lose, and that's something already.
Preach it sista/brotha/etc. wumbo |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
28
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 23:58:00 -
[3362] - Quote
Exploring abandoned Titans and desolate moons around gas giants, walking on a comet to drill core samples and retrieve technology from before the Eve gate closed, I'm there! There's potential to make mining and manufacturing more engaging as well as looting and salvage.
I envision lots of possibilities. Fighting over capital ship salvage on planets and moons and meteors and comets, capture the flag-style or conquest style or team deathmatch style. Maybe we bring clone vats bays for such occasions so we can spawn lots of times, or a fixed number of times, or just once, depending on what it is we are fighting over? Interesting to see PVE in this environment. I envision lots of monsters and sudden depressurization and the environment (Titan wrecks in space for example) breaking apart while one are inside it. Comets turning slowly so every x minutes sunlight hits the surface which causes the ice to turn into gas instantly (it becomes like a minefield with sudden geysers). Gravity in wrecks failing so we can walk on floor, walls or ceiling with our suit gravity fields. Fixing the gravity while someone walks on the roof would be fun. Guns and vehicles. Epic arcs would be EPIC. Perhaps with characters we actually form a connection to and care about when they run for their lives from the explosion and don't make it. I know this all sounds terribly complex to make, maybe the best thing would be to somehow make tools for players to make the stuff in this? A la Spore where everything is made by people, leading to extreme complexity and detail way beyond what the game developer themselves could have ever made.
Whatever you make I'll be excited for it. I just hope you manage to take your time and have the resources you need.
May I also inform you about what makes things funny? Benign violation (google humor theory benign violation). There's a TED talk about it I believe.
For what makes people connect to characters, I have no idea. Whatever the developers of the mass effect series did would be where I started to look if I wanted to find out how to reverse-engineer it. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
817
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 00:51:00 -
[3363] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Why talk about WiS? Because it's better than don't talk about it.
Very true.
But talking about it without an idea of how to actually achieve it with given resources is a waste of ideas.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2753
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 07:44:00 -
[3364] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Why talk about WiS? Because it's better than don't talk about it.
Very true. But talking about it without an idea of how to actually achieve it with given resources is a waste of ideas.
I see: you mean that we should do as the people who, for years, asked CCP by land, air and sea, to please-please-please implement player built stargates leading to unknown space so the big alliances had more toys to war about.
I recall perfectly the threadnaughts, the desperate pleas, the forum pressure, the CSM campaigning of all the people who has begged, suggested, convinced, forced, CCP to implement the Hallelujah Plan as the players envisioned it...
...because we all are game designers and it is our bloody job to tell CCP what to develop and how and when.
You know, my job is telling Ford that i want a Mustang that does 40 miles per gallon. Making it possible it's their job. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Davon Mandra'thin
Rotten Legion Ops
388
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 09:08:00 -
[3365] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Why talk about WiS? Because it's better than don't talk about it.
Very true. But talking about it without an idea of how to actually achieve it with given resources is a waste of ideas. I see: you mean that we should do as the people who, for years, asked CCP by land, air and sea, to please-please-please implement player built stargates leading to unknown space so the big alliances had more toys to war about. I recall perfectly the threadnaughts, the desperate pleas, the forum pressure, the CSM campaigning of all the people who has begged, suggested, convinced, forced, CCP to implement the Hallelujah Plan as the players envisioned it...
Although this is entirely off-topic as a reply to their post, it's still a good post in isolation. For that you get a like. As for ideas though, we are posting in a thread conceived of CCP having an idea of something worth achieving. So I think really, that 'not having ideas' isn't really a thing. There are plenty of ideas out there for valid gameplay. Some more simple or complex than others. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
574
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 20:43:00 -
[3366] - Quote
I believe everyone here have seen the X rebirth walking in station part and the obvious flavs it had. Even one CQ room closed forever is more interactive and life than whole station in X rebirth. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2754
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 22:53:00 -
[3367] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:I believe everyone here have seen the X rebirth walking in station part and the obvious flavs it had. Even one CQ room closed forever is more interactive and life than whole station in X rebirth. I dont write it because I am anti WIS or something, but you can figure it out how hard it is to get things right. Some NPC-s with random dialogue options, and copy paste interior everywhere is not enough. And that mean a lot of work from the art and sound department, also it needs gameplay, and in this thread they presented it, right in the beginning. Basically everything what they showed about WIS placed in game with decent quality would work, really not the way X rebirth was done.
The point with X Rebirth, is that it is vastly improvable. Modders are a force to be reckoned at the X universe, and so we haven't seen the last of Rebirth's station content. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
574
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 23:11:00 -
[3368] - Quote
Problem is , do the modder community will try to improve on a game, that have everything to improve, not only WIS (it would need complete rebuild) but the actual spaceship gameplay, it really feels like a single player game, and not a good one in the means of story or sandbox. Often people say this is the step backward from the past versions of the game, and completely not empire building/trading friendly, but we will see what the community thinks of its potential. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
963
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 12:49:00 -
[3369] - Quote
Ccp should do a competition to get players to design an upgraded CQ. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Nadia Barsrallah
Nerbles
40
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 20:39:00 -
[3370] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Ccp should do a competition to get players to design an upgraded CQ.
thats a great idea! the t3 design was great!
|
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Thellorms Nor'Fein
Federal Bounty Services
28
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 21:00:00 -
[3371] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Ccp should do a competition to get players to design an upgraded CQ.
I agree completely!
I'm a year late getting to this post, and 100+ pages to get caught up? Yeouch! What I hope it says is "Dont worry, we havn't given up on WiS and Avatar gameplay, despite incessant whining from others." I for one realize that stepping out of our ships and exploring environments beyond just those in the vacuum of space or the captains quarters is a crucial MUCH NEEDED step in the future of this game. I would LOVE to see EVE Online become more than a game about just space ships, and become a story about seeing things in the universe through the eyes of your character (avatar). A sci-fi simulator huh? I love the sound of that! Ahh, Jita... - http://i.imgur.com/UHGT4xc.jpg |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2492
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 22:19:00 -
[3372] - Quote
Most of the dev replies in here imply or say 'eventually' and have been saying that for 2 years. 'Eventually' feels a hell of a lot like 'never' at the moment. It's about time something happened. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
692
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 23:14:00 -
[3373] - Quote
Meanwhile CCP was staring drunk (I kid ) at their computers and not doing anything with WiS, Star Citizen comes along and does it for them.
Congratulations, CCP. Now I have to buy two games to do something you could have done.
Sorry if I sound a bit bitter, not necessarily intended... it's just that... so much potential... |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
776
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 22:07:00 -
[3374] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:'Eventually' feels a hell of a lot like 'never' at the moment.
Well, same as for a "5 years alleluja plan" :)
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Thellorms Nor'Fein
Federal Bounty Services
40
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 22:29:00 -
[3375] - Quote
Going to shamelessly link to some thoughts I had posted in the Features and Ideas Discussion forum, as it directly relates to Avatar gameplay and another possible future direction.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4013793#post4013793
Arduemont wrote:Most of the dev replies in here imply or say 'eventually' and have been saying that for 2 years. 'Eventually' feels a hell of a lot like 'never' at the moment. It's about time something happened.
Ahh, yes. I agree completely. But I can't assume to understand what CCP is going through right now. I just read a couple days ago about another recent lay off, and regardless the reasons for it, that cannot be easy for CCP to go through right now. It also does not help the future development of the game at all as the team has to learn to do more with less people. Nevertheless, I believe in them. A lot of us here have been through a lot with CCP over the last decade, and, well... we're still here. There are those in CCP that still dare to dream. Don't give up hope. :) Ahh, Jita... - http://i.imgur.com/UHGT4xc.jpg |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 12:53:00 -
[3376] - Quote
How about a museum displaying the rich history of EVE? One that is only accessible in Systems/Stations like Jita, Amarr etc.
24 player max, and maybe a small minigame with questions about the lore with a small ISK reward. Main goal to educate the new players in a fun way and immerse them a bit.
Maybe some of the rooms can showcase all the ships were folk can spin them or something, lol. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2523
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 12:58:00 -
[3377] - Quote
No offense intended, but what made you think that suggesting a weird space museum in a thread about dangerous, PvP and PvE filled Avatar content would be a good idea?
Who is going to want to wander around some random displays, when they could be exploring an abandoned hazardous station wreck for lost technological artifacts and resources? I'm sorry, but that's a terrible idea. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 13:30:00 -
[3378] - Quote
We'll my base for this is that I had to dig trough various PDF documents to find out what the story is behind EVE. The PvE missions explain a little about the lore, but my guess is people just close these real fast just to get the mission started. Maybe a room with various interaction, showcasing all the expansions/trailers and backstory would educate the new players a bit more.
Just a thought of course.
Another idea I had was a "Hive" like CQ. Were when you fleet up inside CQ you connect the rooms in a "Hive" sorta way :
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hive expamle - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
All the windows would show each others ships, and all members can walk from CQ to CQ. Maybe use the seet and table for simple minigames were you and friends lose your ISK.
I still prefer a window were fleet members can help you with your fitting or can suggest what skills to train.(like I suggested in the boardroom sketch) This so your group can optimise it's efforts. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2524
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 13:51:00 -
[3379] - Quote
I would love CCP to encourage a modding community for new content, cloths, rooms, maybe even usable objects in the environment. Players with the capability to do that are almost always willing to do developers jobs for free given a little encouragement or incentive.
Just look at Skyrim. Skyrim was a fantastic single player game, but it was just that. A single player game with barely 100 hours game play in it (great for a single player game but doesn't compare to the many thousands of hours people spend on MMOs), which people played for thousands of hours each because of the modding community. The T3 competition had a HUGE affect and frankly they should do something where they need even less development time, such as a clothing creation competition. A dev blog explaining where to get some basic clothing models from in-game and a suggested format or modelling engine and players would be away. They would have literally thousands of new clothing options to choose from. People like Hemi here who put time into creating things (even if it is only with photoshop) can make a huge impact on a game given the opportunity.
Clothing, is of course just an example. We could really use some game-play, but asking a modding community for that could be complicated or dangerous. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Hemi DarkStar
The Scope Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 14:13:00 -
[3380] - Quote
Yeah, modding for MMO's is a tad tricky. I myself modded allot of Killing Floor. We made total conversions like replacing all the zombies with necromorphs, or Aliens. Adjusting HUD's, making plasma cutters to replace the 9mm etc etc. Even the iconic motion tracker and beeing able to play as Hicks/Hudson/Apone etc. etc.
If I could create clothing or robotic implants for EVE...oh my.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Monocle - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hehe.. |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2785
|
Posted - 2013.12.19 14:30:00 -
[3381] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I would love CCP to encourage a modding community for new content, cloths, rooms, maybe even usable objects in the environment. Players with the capability to do that are almost always willing to do developers jobs for free given a little encouragement or incentive.
Just look at Skyrim. Skyrim was a fantastic single player game, but it was just that. A single player game with barely 100 hours game play in it (great for a single player game but doesn't compare to the many thousands of hours people spend on MMOs), which people played for thousands of hours each because of the modding community. The T3 competition had a HUGE affect and frankly they should do something where they need even less development time, such as a clothing creation competition. A dev blog explaining where to get some basic clothing models from in-game and a suggested format or modelling engine and players would be away. They would have literally thousands of new clothing options to choose from. People like Hemi here who put time into creating things (even if it is only with photoshop) can make a huge impact on a game given the opportunity.
Clothing, is of course just an example. We could really use some game-play, but asking a modding community for that could be complicated or dangerous.
That would be just one way in which a company that wasn't manically anal about their IP could expand it for free with huge impact and minimal investment beyond developing a basic set of tools and checking TTP prior to each release.
But we're talking about CCP, a company where adding decals to the ships means that you'll need a magnifying glass to actually see them on the ships at full zoom, and the concept of "animated ships" becomes a set of blinds closing down. There would be strokes, manic fits and arson if someone suggested CCP's artists to actually let *someone* touch their stuff, even if they were granted 100% no-questions control over 3rd party content.
You don't play with CCP's toys. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3167
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 14:51:00 -
[3382] - Quote
Heh, just look at what Hilmar said to Wired:
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-12/24/eve-valkyrie
Quote:(...)
How would you describe CCP's goals?
Our goal is to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life. I think we're making good progress! Certainly something like a VR headset helps a lot with that. When we said this first in 2008 people just looked at me like, "Hilmar, that's weird -- don't you have a family and things like that?" Of course.
That's not what I mean about real life. But think about how poorly designed real life is. Acres of stores full of things we buy and just throw them away and consume and consume and consume and now we need a new thing because it's pink instead of yellow. We're throwing it all away and destroying the Earth and everything around us. If everyone were to live our Western consumption lifestyles we would need five planets. When you look at it we could do so much better. Putting people together through computers in massive immersive experiences seems so much more enjoyable than some of the stuff our reality is offering us.
Do you think optimising virtual reality will impact on reality?
I absolutely think so. For example, with EVE we're running a half a million sized economy. Then I look at my own country, Iceland which has 300,000 person economy. There are more in the EVE economy than in the Icelandic economy. Iceland's economy has gone through its own trials and tribulations. I'd rather have virtual economies go through trials and tribulations because they can be exciting and fun, and [then we] make our own economies simpler and saner as a result, -- take the craziness over to the games.
If you look at the international banking bubble it's kind of like a computer game for bankers, then we're all bearing the consequences. I'd rather these bankers did their banking in EVE Online and left the rest of us in peace. When I see what people are doing in EVE Online -- amazing things, massive organisations built on trust and camaraderie -- it's such an inspiration.
Hilmar, you and I are on similar wavelengths. I too would rather use VR environments to perform social experiments than RL.
Now just tell me, in as few words as you can, why your game is all about anonymous machines destroying other anomymous machines, inmersed in a sea of spreadsheets, rather than about human beings doing human stuff... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Erin Crawford
11
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 11:17:00 -
[3383] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Heh, just look at what Hilmar said to Wired: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-12/24/eve-valkyrieQuote:(...)
How would you describe CCP's goals?
Our goal is to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life. I think we're making good progress! Certainly something like a VR headset helps a lot with that. When we said this first in 2008 people just looked at me like, "Hilmar, that's weird -- don't you have a family and things like that?" Of course.
That's not what I mean about real life. But think about how poorly designed real life is. Acres of stores full of things we buy and just throw them away and consume and consume and consume and now we need a new thing because it's pink instead of yellow. We're throwing it all away and destroying the Earth and everything around us. If everyone were to live our Western consumption lifestyles we would need five planets. When you look at it we could do so much better. Putting people together through computers in massive immersive experiences seems so much more enjoyable than some of the stuff our reality is offering us.
(...) Hilmar, you and I are on similar wavelengths. I too would rather use VR environments to perform social experiments than RL. Now just tell me, in as few words as you can, why your game is all about anonymous machines destroying other anonymous machines, inmersed in a sea of spreadsheets, rather than about human beings doing human stuff...
drum roll *dudum-tisssh!* Good find!!!
Interesting indeed! It's just so sad that CCP can't pull up their socks, unterhosen, hosen et alii and do something about this; even in small iterations. Also, they better pull their socks up quickly as that big other game in development with all that avatar/wis content has come a long way in what is quite literally just one short little year and EvE is certainly starting to show it's age in almost all aspects of the game: content, graphics, physics, effects, audio etc.
Still fun to play though... for now! Can only hope it will stay that way! We will see if the space scape will shift in the near future or not.
Either way one really important thing is for sure: we players and payers will have even more space game options! |
Erin Crawford
13
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 11:48:00 -
[3384] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Extra-Vehicular Activity, Wrecks and Exploration
There has been an idea kicking around CCP for a long time now about an ideal starting point for avatar gameplayGǪ GǪThe inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few.
and soon to add to this list, RSIGÇÖs Star Citizen, who are doing it rather than kicking an idea around! Funny how that happened, eh? One year later, out of the blueGǪ
Thellorms Nor'Fein wrote:I'm a year late getting to this post, and 100+ pages to get caught up? Yeouch!
Same here, one year late and 160+ pages on! But, whatGÇÖs even crazier is how far a new game in development has come in that same time. Crazy! CCP Bayesian wrote:There has been an idea kicking around CCP for a long time now about an ideal starting point for avatar gameplay. Still kicking? Me wonders. Kick faster already!
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
860
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 18:35:00 -
[3385] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Star Citizen is claiming to be every game of every genre ever in one package with a cherry on top, of course it aims at a lot of Eve's demographics.
Let's see if it ever gets beyond the "Give Chris Roberts a thousand dollars and get a screenshot of a spaceship" stage first. SC is promising to be a complete space based sci-fi simulator. I'm pretty sure there is only the one genre they are claiming to be. Also, they are well beyond screenshots, but I am sure you are well aware of this as there are plenty of goons already active in SC.
This is actually very welcome news, I hope the goons can bring a little of Eve Online to SC and make it as harsh and unforgiving as Eve. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
102
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 22:43:00 -
[3386] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:This is actually very welcome news, I hope the goons can bring a little of Eve Online to SC and make it as harsh and unforgiving as Eve. The harsh and unforgiving nature of EVE has **** all to do with Goons, champ. It's the format and the freedom players have to genuinely cripple one another structurally, logistically, militarily and financially, and that was all in place long before anyone heard of or gave two ***** about Goonswarm Federation.
And so far, SC is a pile of concept art, videos of staff who have all the depth and charm of a lead pipe, and a Star Conflict style shooter. #HYPE is such a sad an unfulfilling world to live in. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6008
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 22:48:00 -
[3387] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:This is actually very welcome news, I hope the goons can bring a little of Eve Online to SC and make it as harsh and unforgiving as Eve. The harsh and unforgiving nature of EVE has **** all to do with Goons, champ. It's the format and the freedom players have to genuinely cripple one another structurally, logistically, militarily and financially, and that was all in place long before anyone heard of or gave two ***** about Goonswarm Federation. And so far, SC is a pile of concept art, videos of staff who have all the depth and charm of a lead pipe, and a Star Conflict style shooter. #HYPE is such a sad an unfulfilling world to live in. Sounds like someone is afraid of SC and loves the CFC ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
861
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 22:52:00 -
[3388] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:This is actually very welcome news, I hope the goons can bring a little of Eve Online to SC and make it as harsh and unforgiving as Eve. The harsh and unforgiving nature of EVE has **** all to do with Goons, champ. It's the format and the freedom players have to genuinely cripple one another structurally, logistically, militarily and financially, and that was all in place long before anyone heard of or gave two ***** about Goonswarm Federation. And so far, SC is a pile of concept art, videos of staff who have all the depth and charm of a lead pipe, and a Star Conflict style shooter. #HYPE is such a sad an unfulfilling world to live in.
I'm no goon fan boy, but my point was that Star Citizen whilst technically excellent has an optimistic and utopian feel about as opposed to Eve online which is dark and dystopian. I think the future will be more like blade runner than starwars given how humanity behaves, but anyhow, the goons have a history of entering other mmo's with a view to exploiting game mechanics in order to change the nature of that game and ultimately destroy it, whilst being obnoxious to all and sundry. They've had some success at this in second life so I am told. Hence my statement that they might bring a little bit of Eve online to SC. As Eve online supports and encourages such behaviour. CCP sees emergent gameplay where other companies see griefing. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
102
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 23:01:00 -
[3389] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:CCP sees emergent gameplay where other companies see griefing. Point taken, and well said.
I'm just in a vile mood tonight, and I felt like pissing on something. Goons and SC seemed like a good choice. My apologies if that came across as being directed squarely at you.
SC, by all appearances, seems like such a ****.
"Stare at our pretty environments and gaze in awe as you see your avatar fiddle with controls and flip off the docking chief! And, also, ignore the fact that the rest of it looks like X-Wing..." |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3184
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 23:26:00 -
[3390] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Logical 101 wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:This is actually very welcome news, I hope the goons can bring a little of Eve Online to SC and make it as harsh and unforgiving as Eve. The harsh and unforgiving nature of EVE has **** all to do with Goons, champ. It's the format and the freedom players have to genuinely cripple one another structurally, logistically, militarily and financially, and that was all in place long before anyone heard of or gave two ***** about Goonswarm Federation. And so far, SC is a pile of concept art, videos of staff who have all the depth and charm of a lead pipe, and a Star Conflict style shooter. #HYPE is such a sad an unfulfilling world to live in. I'm no goon fan boy, but my point was that Star Citizen whilst technically excellent has an optimistic and utopian feel about as opposed to Eve online which is dark and dystopian. I think the future will be more like blade runner than starwars given how humanity behaves, but anyhow, the goons have a history of entering other mmo's with a view to exploiting game mechanics in order to change the nature of that game and ultimately destroy it, whilst being obnoxious to all and sundry. They've had some success at this in second life so I am told. Hence my statement that they might bring a little bit of Eve online to SC. As Eve online supports and encourages such behaviour. CCP sees emergent gameplay where other companies see griefing.
We are Star Trek pooping rainbows compared to just 200 years ago. In some ways, our world is a nightmare unthinkable to the people then. In some other ways, we are beyond the wildest dreams of the people then.
And you and me and your neighbour are terribly fortunate to have been born now and here.
Morale: the future is never what you think of it... and EVE is just a game. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
|
NickSuccorso
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Surely You're Joking
39
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 16:18:00 -
[3391] - Quote
So when are you getting this project finished up? |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
863
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 18:10:00 -
[3392] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Logical 101 wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:This is actually very welcome news, I hope the goons can bring a little of Eve Online to SC and make it as harsh and unforgiving as Eve. The harsh and unforgiving nature of EVE has **** all to do with Goons, champ. It's the format and the freedom players have to genuinely cripple one another structurally, logistically, militarily and financially, and that was all in place long before anyone heard of or gave two ***** about Goonswarm Federation. And so far, SC is a pile of concept art, videos of staff who have all the depth and charm of a lead pipe, and a Star Conflict style shooter. #HYPE is such a sad an unfulfilling world to live in. I'm no goon fan boy, but my point was that Star Citizen whilst technically excellent has an optimistic and utopian feel about as opposed to Eve online which is dark and dystopian. I think the future will be more like blade runner than starwars given how humanity behaves, but anyhow, the goons have a history of entering other mmo's with a view to exploiting game mechanics in order to change the nature of that game and ultimately destroy it, whilst being obnoxious to all and sundry. They've had some success at this in second life so I am told. Hence my statement that they might bring a little bit of Eve online to SC. As Eve online supports and encourages such behaviour. CCP sees emergent gameplay where other companies see griefing. We are Star Trek pooping rainbows compared to just 200 years ago. In some ways, our world is a nightmare unthinkable to the people then. In some other ways, we are beyond the wildest dreams of the people then. And you and me and your neighbour are terribly fortunate to have been born now and here. Morale: the future is never what you think of it... and EVE is just a game.
Agreed on all points, in many ways people a hundred years from now will be also more fortunate than we are today though if you ask me a lot of people who play wow would argue the opposite (not that we care about them lol). Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
392
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 06:05:00 -
[3393] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:And, also, ignore the fact that the rest of it looks like X-Wing..."
You say that as though it's a bad thing. I might point out that in blob war mode, eve looks significantly worse than Xwing.
Getting back to the subject: I think it;'s clear we want some sort of WiS gameplay, CCP. Even if it's just playing solitaire in our hanger.
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2870
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 07:38:00 -
[3394] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote: Getting back to the subject:
I've never subscribed that the idea of comparing Eve to another game is a good idea in a discussion. The whole 'Star Citizen' will kill Eve thing, just gets on my nerve more than anything else.
The trouble is though, that this argument has been done to death. Almost anything there is to be said, has been said. Now it's just people occasionally posting to show their support and bring this thread back to the front page for people who haven't seen it before to have a read of the OP.
So it's not really surprising that people feel the need to talk about a game that is actually developing something to use as a comparison. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
866
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 19:48:00 -
[3395] - Quote
I just found this today. Some of you may already be aware of this but I wasn't.
http://www.gameskinny.com/6jsdo/elite-dangerous-heads-into-alpha-testing-and-announces-future-plans-for-avatar-gameplay
If Elite Dangerous is going to feature avatar content and all they've had is a measly 2million in funding then it makes me wonder, what the **** is ccp doing?
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
978
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 21:32:00 -
[3396] - Quote
It was announced by Braben one year ago, but that is stuff to make in future expansions, not in the release package. Same with planetary flight, and landing on planets. But whole game is made with respect to those functionalities. a++ püñ Gùò_Gùò a++püñ [TALOCAN STUFF] |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
866
|
Posted - 2014.01.01 23:24:00 -
[3397] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:It was announced by Braben one year ago, but that is stuff to make in future expansions, not in the release package. Same with planetary flight, and landing on planets. But whole game is made with respect to those functionalities.
It's good though as he is at least mindful of the future and has a plan. It looks like he's getting good results with his limited funding so personally I'm looking forward to it coming out. Elite was a big deal for me in the 80's and in many ways is the game that Eve is a direct descendant of. In other words I will have to try it and probably vacate Eve for a couple of months whilst I play it. I'm not promising to stay away for ever because New Eden is my spiritual home, but CCP really need to start looking at their plan and adjust accordingly otherwise they are going to get overtaken by the competition. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Jara Blackwind
Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari
24
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 00:07:00 -
[3398] - Quote
Quote:If Elite Dangerous is going to feature avatar content and all they've had is a measly 2million in funding then it makes me wonder, what the **** is ccp doing? Quote:CCP really need to start looking at their plan and adjust accordingly otherwise they are going to get overtaken by the competition. Apparently they think that the policy that "sees emergent gameplay where other companies see griefing" makes them immune to said competition. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
387
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 00:15:00 -
[3399] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:the future is never what you think of it... and EVE is just a game.
The future Ish? Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
867
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 00:27:00 -
[3400] - Quote
Jara Blackwind wrote:Quote:If Elite Dangerous is going to feature avatar content and all they've had is a measly 2million in funding then it makes me wonder, what the **** is ccp doing? Quote:CCP really need to start looking at their plan and adjust accordingly otherwise they are going to get overtaken by the competition. Apparently they think that the policy that "sees emergent gameplay where other companies see griefing" makes them immune to said competition.
Well their famous five year plan for player built stargates certainly caters to this crowd of nullsec gamers that hate high sec while the rest of get shafted. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
808
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 03:11:00 -
[3401] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Jara Blackwind wrote:Quote:If Elite Dangerous is going to feature avatar content and all they've had is a measly 2million in funding then it makes me wonder, what the **** is ccp doing? Quote:CCP really need to start looking at their plan and adjust accordingly otherwise they are going to get overtaken by the competition. Apparently they think that the policy that "sees emergent gameplay where other companies see griefing" makes them immune to said competition. Well their famous five year plan for player built stargates certainly caters to this crowd of nullsec gamers that hate high sec while the rest of get shafted.
Five years only give them 10+ year. |
SarahReed
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 16:26:00 -
[3402] - Quote
I am very late seeing this post but WOW this looks like a real interesting addintion to the EVE I love. hope CCP are still considering this for avatar gameplay. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3258
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 09:56:00 -
[3403] - Quote
I think that we all should read what the CSM minutes have to say about avatar content.
Exactly, the word 'avatar' is not mentioned not even once in the whole minutes.
Admittedly, there is a slim chance (if you like playing lotteries by hoping to find a winner ticket on the pavement) that the heavily NDA'ed Project 2 or Project 3 are related to avatars, but I doubt it. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
348
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 13:00:00 -
[3404] - Quote
Colour me very positively surprised if either of the projects turns out to be Avatar related, but after years of disappointment on this end I'm not really holding my breath. |
logic principle3
Knights-of-Cydonia
4
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 14:37:00 -
[3405] - Quote
This sounds much better than that whole WIS fiasco being a focus of some expansion that shall not be named. It actually has gameplay to it. *Hats off, and good luck* -I am looking forward to it. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
894
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 23:42:00 -
[3406] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:I think that we all should read what the CSM minutes have to say about avatar content.Exactly, the word 'avatar' is not mentioned not even once in the whole minutes. Admittedly, there is a slim chance (if you like playing lotteries by hoping to find a winner ticket on the pavement) that the heavily NDA'ed Project 2 or Project 3 are related to avatars, but I doubt it.
I doubt it too, but I bet avatars will feature in the advertising though. Any how it looks like jesus features are coming in an attempt to retain their engaged player base. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
205
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 23:47:00 -
[3407] - Quote
not meant as troll, but what is this 164 page thread about? |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
894
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 23:51:00 -
[3408] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:not meant as troll, but what is this 164 page thread about?
Read page 1, in essence avatar content in eve online as an expansion of game play. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 23:59:00 -
[3409] - Quote
There are few cool games coming up such as Star Citizen, which in my opinion is going to be a copy of EVE online + Dust. It is thought that the SC boys have extraordinary brain matter to fit the whole into one game and onto the same platform.
So my thoughts go to those fantastic developers of EVE online... will they be instructed to start working again on EVE online to seriously expand the game and add content or will they keep rebalancing things until SC takes over the whole market share?
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
894
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 00:08:00 -
[3410] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote:There are few cool games coming up such as Star Citizen, which in my opinion is going to be a copy of EVE online + Dust. It is thought that the SC boys have extraordinary brain matter to fit the whole into one game and onto the same platform.
So my thoughts go to those fantastic developers of EVE online... will they be instructed to start working again on EVE online to seriously expand the game and add content or will they keep rebalancing things until SC takes over the whole market share?
Probably the latter, sc is going to be twitch based and they have a scaling engine that handles transitions between ship to avatar etc. Good use of modern technology. Eve will probably behave better server side though as combat will be instanced in sc or so I hear. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 00:26:00 -
[3411] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Colour me very positively surprised if either of the projects turns out to be Avatar related, but after years of disappointment on this end I'm not really holding my breath.
I imagine a day in the future in which someone will wake up and decide that because all other competing games have WIS they will also implement it. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1707
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 05:50:00 -
[3412] - Quote
So I've found a game which is 0) non-instanced giant 1) sandbox 2) with PvP, theft, hilarious player courts (!), territory control, craft, vessels, alliances, housing, multi-person mounts, etc. 3) and it has native support for DX11 graphics and avatars are comparable to EVE's toons - it's using CryEngine 3 - while animations are much better and 4) it's free (PvP&PvE is free, craft and thievery require modest payments). The only downside - it's fantasy - but I can live with that as long as there is a lot of action (so far there was a lot).
Good luck to CCP competing with new generation of sandbox games like that with EVE's uncomfortable core gameplay from 2003 without expanding it with new/additional core (avatars). |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
447
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 13:07:00 -
[3413] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:not meant as troll, but what is this 164 page thread about?
Schooling CCP about how they should follow the trend and build WiS instead of working on the core of the game, apparently. It's quite vast in scope, too - from completely unrealistic visions that would never actually work all the way to saying "everyone will migrate to SC anyway, because SC has WiS."
With CSM remaining rather focused on the matters that actually matter, I guess one of the NDA features could be a long-term sov revamp or changes to POSes. Which is, pretty much, the next thing we need.
Right after another round of what amusingly mostly forumgoers cry about - rebalancing. A chunk of T2 ships is still waiting for their turn.
When you think about it really, the ground is for peasants and DUST bunnies - a capsuleer doesn't bother himself/herself with going into a dangerous area, he/she just sends in goons. I mean, why risk being caught vulnerable, not protected by a few million skillpoints in gunnery and a rack of fully automatic 800mm howitzers?
You likely have enough ISK to own a small army and for a fistful of it a bunch of backwater world muppets will gladly suffer whatever gruesome fate awaits down the hallway. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 13:25:00 -
[3414] - Quote
Some of the things people frequently ask for are actually the low-risk areas : Corp meeting rooms, bars, etc. I can see why some capsuleers would want to stay in pod forever, but I can also see that some would prefer to stretch their legs from time to time. Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2882
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 13:28:00 -
[3415] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:not meant as troll, but what is this 164 page thread about? Schooling CCP about how they should follow the trend and build WiS instead of working on the core of the game, apparently. It's quite vast in scope, too - from completely unrealistic visions that would never actually work all the way to saying "everyone will migrate to SC anyway, because SC has WiS."
Yes, this thread is mostly people whinging who have vastly different (or implausible) views on how Eve should be. Just like every other thread on the forum.
Trii Seo wrote:With CSM remaining rather focused on the matters that actually matter, I guess one of the NDA features could be a long-term sov revamp or changes to POSes. Which is, pretty much, the next thing we need.
Right after another round of what amusingly mostly forumgoers cry about - rebalancing. A chunk of T2 ships is still waiting for their turn.
Those things matter, and need fixing. The issue a lot of people have is that we're not seeing much of that either. The proportion of CCP's development time being spent of Eve has quite clearly been going down since Incursions* (when the fall in player numbers initially started pre-Incarna, and roughly when Dust, CARBON and WoD developement began). Now they're working towards a new Jesus Feature. Despite promising us that they wouldn't until everything else we were asking for at the time was covered.
* With the modest exception of Crucible. During which time CCP were scrambling to keep Eve alive after Incarnageddon.
Trii Seo wrote:When you think about it really, the ground is for peasants and DUST bunnies - a capsuleer doesn't bother himself/herself with going into a dangerous area, he/she just sends in goons. I mean, why risk being caught vulnerable, not protected by a few million skillpoints in gunnery and a rack of fully automatic 800mm howitzers?
You likely have enough ISK to own a small army and for a fistful of it a bunch of backwater world muppets will gladly suffer whatever gruesome fate awaits down the hallway.
You've obviously not read a great deal of the fiction. Some of the most powerful NPC capsuleers in recorded history spent little to no time in their ships. Jacus Radon, the Broker, the CEO of Ishikone etc etc. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
256
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 13:49:00 -
[3416] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: How about a sink and vanity mirror? Or maybe a ceiling fan? I'm just spitballing here, and want to get in on all this free money disgruntled EVE players are throwing at other games because they contain such meaningful and useful pre-alpha features.
We already have a vanity mirror in de CQ. A ceiling fan would be nice though, it can become quite hot in there, especially since we can't open the door to let fresh air in. And mind you, EvE is already in Beta!
In other words, you are continually patronizing WIS by nitpicking on minor details that might or might not be implemented. Instead you should look at a bigger picture. You might not like or be interested in the future development of WIS in EvE, a lot of others are. Including me, for a broader immersion into the Science Fiction universe EvE is. Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
|
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
352
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 16:16:00 -
[3417] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:With CSM remaining rather focused on the matters that actually matter, I guess one of the NDA features could be a long-term sov revamp or changes to POSes. Which is, pretty much, the next thing we need.
Aside from the jesus feature thing someone before me just mentioned, your ramblings against WiS kind of lose some wind with that robotic arm and "torch" eye-implant of yours. I mean just saying if you don't care about avatar gameplay why do you bother dressing yours up? |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
387
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 16:37:00 -
[3418] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Quote:(...)
Have you played any other Oculus Rift games?
I've played a bit, but not as much as the guys who are working on this. They're keeping up with everything that's going on. My job is a lot now, not just connected to development like it used to be. I miss it because it's super fun to make games but I also need to focus on doing my actual job which is to make sure that the company is organised around our strategy and making sure we're making the right high level decisions.
(...)
Hillmar, as CEO in the company that might indeed be your job, but the quality of your performance while doing it is questionable, optimistically speaking.
Taking in consideration the options you've made in these last years regarding the Reinvented WheelGäó in avatar gameplay development (and its failure to deliver), the side project development (and the state in which they can be currently found), the human resources management, the Somer Blink scandal and impunity given to those involved (having your boys unstick and close the thread? hoping that it will dissapear from General Discussion section of the forum and new player attention? I see what you did there ) one could say that it's not a job you have done too well.
Take for instance the marketing expense of millions of dollars you've chosen to make every year with these phony promotional videos, paying to have them spammed on Youtube ads.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: CCP marketing expense 2008: (8,524,124) CCP marketing expense 2009: (9,410,916) CCP marketing expense 2010: (9,769,965) CCP marketing expense 2010: (9,769,965) CCP marketing expense 2011: (9,912,335) CCP marketing expense 2012: (12,567,302)
Hillmar, the best publicity your game can ever have is not the one you spend millions of dollars with, trying to convince and illude people with imaginary gameplay. It's the one made by people who come play your game, telling everybody and their parents to come play it because of how great it is and how blown away they were by it. Would't this money be better spent on having the people you fired still working at the company, giving them the tools they need to work and develop avatar gameplay and the other EVE features that are in need of attention?
Many people who work at the company might agree with this, but at the fear of losing their jobs too, might not want to speak out. I dare you to make an annonymous internal poll on the opinion of the company's employees about your performance as the company's CEO and the options you've made in the last years, and to release the results publically. Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
447
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 17:17:00 -
[3419] - Quote
I might've said in the thread before, there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking stylish. That said, development of the whole station thing shouldn't go before the development of spaceships.
And - yes - those people are out of the pod, that said they probably aren't involved in manual labour either. If I remember my lore right - correct me if I'm wrong - Roden being a politician and the broker one mysterious fellow that loves his jump clones. They're more likely to order people around and make spreadsheets, I'm guessing we're covered on the spreadsheet front.
Also, unless I understand it wrong - without his capsule to protect him, a pod pilot is essentially a mortal human. The pod itself does the brain scan thing when it detects a breach, the only person capable of transferring back to another body without this hardware is a DUST bunny.
Given that the scan essentially snapshots a pilot's brain and dumps it into another clone (resulting, yes, in memory loss should the clone be inferior due to it being unable to store everything transferred) while turning the previous body into a vegetable in the process it would be a nice question to ask - if you were shot outside of your pod, and your "self" not snapshotted, but your clone still woken up - would you still be you?
But yeah, that's trying to apply sense to this and it's not a wise thing to do anyway. As for the "Jesus Feature" - seems like they used the term and now everyone's tacking it on everything they develop, even though it appears to be more of a long-term plan of changes to existing gameplay elements that require changing. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
352
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 18:15:00 -
[3420] - Quote
A "Jesus Feature" is any feature that promises to change the game forever as we know it. The "build your own stargates, dream with me!" is also a jesus feature just like Incarna, Tyrannis, or the Dominion were supposed to be. |
|
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
91
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 18:42:00 -
[3421] - Quote
WiS would help me melt the brains of men even easier.... I like it! New player feeling neglected? You're important from day 1!!! Join the Epic Boo Bees! (female chars only, RP!)
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
447
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 19:20:00 -
[3422] - Quote
Funny thing, interpretation - it seems CCP meant "Jesus Feature" as something along the lines of a feature that's meant to redeem everything and be important enough to neglect core aspects of the game in favour of it. Which was what sparked the riots of Incarna - it wasn't the fact WiS is a bad idea, it was the fact CCP neglected old issues in favour of a shoddily implemented, hardware-melting pointless feature.
Of course, such is the fate of definitions not set in stone - they are prone to being wrapped the way most fitting one's point of view. Meh, c'est la vie. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
92
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 19:24:00 -
[3423] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Funny thing, interpretation - it seems CCP meant "Jesus Feature" as something along the lines of a feature that's meant to redeem everything and be important enough to neglect core aspects of the game in favour of it. Which was what sparked the riots of Incarna - it wasn't the fact WiS is a bad idea, it was the fact CCP neglected old issues in favour of a shoddily implemented, hardware-melting pointless feature.
Of course, such is the fate of definitions not set in stone - they are prone to being wrapped the way most fitting one's point of view. Meh, c'est la vie. CCP Seagull herself said that there will be no more Jesus features. Ever. New player feeling neglected? You're important from day 1!!! Join the Epic Boo Bees! (female chars only, RP!)
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
900
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 19:39:00 -
[3424] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Funny thing, interpretation - it seems CCP meant "Jesus Feature" as something along the lines of a feature that's meant to redeem everything and be important enough to neglect core aspects of the game in favour of it. Which was what sparked the riots of Incarna - it wasn't the fact WiS is a bad idea, it was the fact CCP neglected old issues in favour of a shoddily implemented, hardware-melting pointless feature.
Of course, such is the fate of definitions not set in stone - they are prone to being wrapped the way most fitting one's point of view. Meh, c'est la vie.
It seems that CCP are doomed to keep on repeating the mistakes of the past. I mean will these guys ever learn.
The other question we all need to ask is are we receiving good value for money out of our monthly subscription payment or plex or whatever for our preferred play style.
I personally don't think I am at the moment as I'm not seeing any WIS development. I also don't care about POS's as our alliance only runs a handful and the funny mechanics are not a big issue for us. I also operate in NPC Null/Highsec and occasionally WH space where sov is not an issue and in doing so I tend to fly solo or in small gangs with a handful of good friends. I admit we've had some nice modules created that are simple to deploy in the field whilst you can also argue that ship balancing benefits everybody but I'm not feeling the value for money or customer satisfaction that I used to have.
Now I wouldn't mind betting that the Nullbears that clash daily in big fleets are also getting the shaft from CCP as all they've had at the moment is ship balancing when they want SOV overhauled. What about the low sec guys? Other than ship balancing they haven't had much attention from CCP just like the folks in HighSec who apart from ship balancing and recent buffs to mining barges also haven't had much love from CCP. Where's the much needed PVE overhaul? That would benefit about 70% of the game's population immediately.
Yes there's been some minor improvements and quite a lot of dumbing down (exploration anybody) but when I first Joined EVE online nearly 7 years ago, we would have all of the above in a patch. Expansions were something really special. So whether you support WIS or whether you want to see it die in a fire the question you should ask yourself is 'Am I getting good value from CCP' I would say that whatever your preferred gameplay you probably are not.
It's obvious where all of CCP's cash, energy and value is going though and that's on Dust, WOD (a turkey), mobile apps, Valkyrie and other secret stuff we're not allowed to know about as evidenced in the heavily NDA's and deliberately delayed CSM minutes. With Jesus features underdevelopment despite CCP promising not to until the game was fixed we can all take comfort in the fact that everybody has been lied to and none of us are doing well out of the present EVE experience. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
900
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 19:45:00 -
[3425] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Funny thing, interpretation - it seems CCP meant "Jesus Feature" as something along the lines of a feature that's meant to redeem everything and be important enough to neglect core aspects of the game in favour of it. Which was what sparked the riots of Incarna - it wasn't the fact WiS is a bad idea, it was the fact CCP invested all of the time energy and cash in Dust and WOD development whilst using the same development resources to create a shoddily implemented, hardware-melting starter feature that has yet to have any further development due to the angry fallout over the 'Greed is Good' memo and the Nex Store.
Of course, such is the fate of definitions not set in stone - they are prone to being wrapped the way most fitting one's point of view. Meh, That's Life!.
Fixed that for you.
On account of the fact that I was there, I rioted in Jita, Rens, Dodixie and Amarr.
I shot the statue and at the time was thinking of 'No Pay To Win in Eve Online'. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
352
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 22:44:00 -
[3426] - Quote
Post containing no content has been removed. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
|
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
733
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 23:38:00 -
[3427] - Quote
This is the reason we can't have nice things.
Whiners that are afraid to try any new or interesting ideas. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
534
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 02:34:00 -
[3428] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:This is the reason we can't have nice things.
Whiners that are afraid to try any new or interesting ideas.
When the WiS fetishists have some new and interesting ideas we can talk.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
812
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 03:53:00 -
[3429] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote:This is the reason we can't have nice things.
Whiners that are afraid to try any new or interesting ideas. When the WiS fetishists have some new and interesting ideas we can talk.
Still trolling dude? You don`t quit it do you. O wait ignore nah this guy made my day lmfao when he post here again with his flag in his hand NO WIS NO WIS NO WIS project. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2904
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 09:58:00 -
[3430] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote:This is the reason we can't have nice things.
Whiners that are afraid to try any new or interesting ideas. When the WiS fetishists have some new and interesting ideas we can talk.
No one wants to talk with you Rhes. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
|
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
114
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 10:38:00 -
[3431] - Quote
OK. Dear CCP, this may sound stupid but I assure you that is a good marketing practice, e.g. check your market. Run a few surveys and find out really what people want and if there is a business case for WIS.
Gather information on features posted by EVE players in the forums. Play them back to them into surveys.
1. Run a survey internally within CCP personnel. This will help you to check how much internal support you have.
2. Run a survey with your current users. This will help to gauge if people will use it and what features people value mostly
3. Run a few surveys in the gaming community and see what people out there are looking for in next generation Sci-fi MMO
Then collate the results and see if there is an economical case for this to be implemented:
- Additional subscriptions? - Retain subscriptions? - Implementation cost?
In surveys you can also ask if people would accept this as an unlockable feature for PLEX. Nobody should think that access to stations is supposed to be free. So could be for a permanent upgrade to your clones cognitive system to allow you to pilot the ship manually.
Most importantly ensure that the results are shared with the community. This will shut up the minority, whatever that is. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3304
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 10:50:00 -
[3432] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote:OK. Dear CCP, this may sound stupid but I assure you that is a good marketing practice, e.g. check your market. Run a few surveys and find out really what people want and if there is a business case for WIS.
Gather information on features posted by EVE players in the forums. Play them back to them into surveys.
1. Run a survey internally within CCP personnel. This will help you to check how much internal support you have.
2. Run a survey with your current users. This will help to gauge if people will use it and what features people value mostly
3. Run a few surveys in the gaming community and see what people out there are looking for in next generation Sci-fi MMO
Then collate the results and see if there is an economical case for this to be implemented:
- Additional subscriptions? - Retain subscriptions? - Implementation cost?
In surveys you can also ask if people would accept this as an unlockable feature for PLEX. Nobody should think that access to stations is supposed to be free. So could be for a permanent upgrade to your clones cognitive system to allow you to pilot the ship manually.
Most importantly ensure that the results are shared with the community. This will shut up the minority, whatever that is.
I would second that, but not just a "theme" project, but as a recurrent way to deal with EVE's massive complexity.
Of course, CCP already haves some surveying procedures, which rely on number crunching from the servers and asking whoever 14% of the playerbase gets to elect as CSM, and they are quite content with it. The idea of engaging the passive anonymous uninvested masses is not exactly popular anywhere in CCP.
So, all in all: good post, good idea, wrong company. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
115
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 11:04:00 -
[3433] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:OK. Dear CCP, this may sound stupid but I assure you that is a good marketing practice, e.g. check your market. Run a few surveys and find out really what people want and if there is a business case for WIS.
Gather information on features posted by EVE players in the forums. Play them back to them into surveys.
1. Run a survey internally within CCP personnel. This will help you to check how much internal support you have.
2. Run a survey with your current users. This will help to gauge if people will use it and what features people value mostly
3. Run a few surveys in the gaming community and see what people out there are looking for in next generation Sci-fi MMO
Then collate the results and see if there is an economical case for this to be implemented:
- Additional subscriptions? - Retain subscriptions? - Implementation cost?
In surveys you can also ask if people would accept this as an unlockable feature for PLEX. Nobody should think that access to stations is supposed to be free. So could be for a permanent upgrade to your clones cognitive system to allow you to pilot the ship manually.
Most importantly ensure that the results are shared with the community. This will shut up the minority, whatever that is. I would second that, but not just a "theme" project, but as a recurrent way to deal with EVE's massive complexity. Of course, CCP already haves some surveying procedures, which rely on number crunching from the servers and asking whoever 14% of the playerbase gets to elect as CSM, and they are quite content with it. The idea of engaging the passive anonymous uninvested masses is not exactly popular anywhere in CCP. So, all in all: good post, good idea, wrong company.
If you look at new features that are aimed at increasing market share you should be looking outward as well. More players available in EVE means more fun and a gain for all parties. In that case handle the internal view through CSM, which represent the old, the unchangeable, the interest of the large alliances. We should never forget that after 10 years, new players are a whole new generation. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3308
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 17:37:00 -
[3434] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:OK. Dear CCP, this may sound stupid but I assure you that is a good marketing practice, e.g. check your market. Run a few surveys and find out really what people want and if there is a business case for WIS.
Gather information on features posted by EVE players in the forums. Play them back to them into surveys.
1. Run a survey internally within CCP personnel. This will help you to check how much internal support you have.
2. Run a survey with your current users. This will help to gauge if people will use it and what features people value mostly
3. Run a few surveys in the gaming community and see what people out there are looking for in next generation Sci-fi MMO
Then collate the results and see if there is an economical case for this to be implemented:
- Additional subscriptions? - Retain subscriptions? - Implementation cost?
In surveys you can also ask if people would accept this as an unlockable feature for PLEX. Nobody should think that access to stations is supposed to be free. So could be for a permanent upgrade to your clones cognitive system to allow you to pilot the ship manually.
Most importantly ensure that the results are shared with the community. This will shut up the minority, whatever that is. I would second that, but not just a "theme" project, but as a recurrent way to deal with EVE's massive complexity. Of course, CCP already haves some surveying procedures, which rely on number crunching from the servers and asking whoever 14% of the playerbase gets to elect as CSM, and they are quite content with it. The idea of engaging the passive anonymous uninvested masses is not exactly popular anywhere in CCP. So, all in all: good post, good idea, wrong company. If you look at new features that are aimed at increasing market share you should be looking outward as well. More players available in EVE means more fun and a gain for all parties. In that case handle the internal view through CSM, which represent the old, the unchangeable, the interest of the large alliances. We should never forget that after 10 years, new players are a whole new generation.
Actual new, 100% inexpert players are becoming more of a rare sight than a generation thing. And the plans to change that are nebulous at best.
But anyway, whatever happens to EVE it's not in our hands. We are mere bystanders, for as much as we care, it's not our business nor our way to earn a living.
I personally will be taking a break when my PLEX expires tomorrow; have been playing the game for like 9 months since I returned from my previous break and it's been enough for now. As I said a few times, one can only bang her head on a door that many times... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
912
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 23:16:00 -
[3435] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:OK. Dear CCP, this may sound stupid but I assure you that is a good marketing practice, e.g. check your market. Run a few surveys and find out really what people want and if there is a business case for WIS.
Gather information on features posted by EVE players in the forums. Play them back to them into surveys.
1. Run a survey internally within CCP personnel. This will help you to check how much internal support you have.
2. Run a survey with your current users. This will help to gauge if people will use it and what features people value mostly
3. Run a few surveys in the gaming community and see what people out there are looking for in next generation Sci-fi MMO
Then collate the results and see if there is an economical case for this to be implemented:
- Additional subscriptions? - Retain subscriptions? - Implementation cost?
In surveys you can also ask if people would accept this as an unlockable feature for PLEX. Nobody should think that access to stations is supposed to be free. So could be for a permanent upgrade to your clones cognitive system to allow you to pilot the ship manually.
Most importantly ensure that the results are shared with the community. This will shut up the minority, whatever that is. I would second that, but not just a "theme" project, but as a recurrent way to deal with EVE's massive complexity. Of course, CCP already haves some surveying procedures, which rely on number crunching from the servers and asking whoever 14% of the playerbase gets to elect as CSM, and they are quite content with it. The idea of engaging the passive anonymous uninvested masses is not exactly popular anywhere in CCP. So, all in all: good post, good idea, wrong company. If you look at new features that are aimed at increasing market share you should be looking outward as well. More players available in EVE means more fun and a gain for all parties. In that case handle the internal view through CSM, which represent the old, the unchangeable, the interest of the large alliances. We should never forget that after 10 years, new players are a whole new generation. Actual new, 100% inexpert players are becoming more of a rare sight than a generation thing. And the plans to change that are nebulous at best. But anyway, whatever happens to EVE it's not in our hands. We are mere bystanders, for as much as we care, it's not our business nor our way to earn a living. I personally will be taking a break when my PLEX expires tomorrow; have been playing the game for like 9 months since I returned from my previous break and it's been enough for now. As I said a few times, one can only bang her head on a door that many times...
I took a couple of breaks from eve myself after 7 years of subscriptions. It does help to get away and try something else, Chribba also takes the same view. Thing is though ccp should actually be trying to prevent older players from leaving at all as there's a chance that they may not come back. SC and Elite Dangerous are quality projects built around avatar content which incidentally has been shown to be the best game format to overcome the social wall that CCP seagull is worried about and create new customers that remain customers. For any business it has to be easier to keep an existing customer than to go chasing new ones all of the time. I'm just amazed that ccp can't see that. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3313
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 10:27:00 -
[3436] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:OK. Dear CCP, this may sound stupid but I assure you that is a good marketing practice, e.g. check your market. Run a few surveys and find out really what people want and if there is a business case for WIS.
Gather information on features posted by EVE players in the forums. Play them back to them into surveys.
1. Run a survey internally within CCP personnel. This will help you to check how much internal support you have.
2. Run a survey with your current users. This will help to gauge if people will use it and what features people value mostly
3. Run a few surveys in the gaming community and see what people out there are looking for in next generation Sci-fi MMO
Then collate the results and see if there is an economical case for this to be implemented:
- Additional subscriptions? - Retain subscriptions? - Implementation cost?
In surveys you can also ask if people would accept this as an unlockable feature for PLEX. Nobody should think that access to stations is supposed to be free. So could be for a permanent upgrade to your clones cognitive system to allow you to pilot the ship manually.
Most importantly ensure that the results are shared with the community. This will shut up the minority, whatever that is. I would second that, but not just a "theme" project, but as a recurrent way to deal with EVE's massive complexity. Of course, CCP already haves some surveying procedures, which rely on number crunching from the servers and asking whoever 14% of the playerbase gets to elect as CSM, and they are quite content with it. The idea of engaging the passive anonymous uninvested masses is not exactly popular anywhere in CCP. So, all in all: good post, good idea, wrong company. If you look at new features that are aimed at increasing market share you should be looking outward as well. More players available in EVE means more fun and a gain for all parties. In that case handle the internal view through CSM, which represent the old, the unchangeable, the interest of the large alliances. We should never forget that after 10 years, new players are a whole new generation. Actual new, 100% inexpert players are becoming more of a rare sight than a generation thing. And the plans to change that are nebulous at best. But anyway, whatever happens to EVE it's not in our hands. We are mere bystanders, for as much as we care, it's not our business nor our way to earn a living. I personally will be taking a break when my PLEX expires tomorrow; have been playing the game for like 9 months since I returned from my previous break and it's been enough for now. As I said a few times, one can only bang her head on a door that many times... I took a couple of breaks from eve myself after 7 years of subscriptions. It does help to get away and try something else, Chribba also takes the same view. Thing is though ccp should actually be trying to prevent older players from leaving at all as there's a chance that they may not come back. SC and Elite Dangerous are quality projects built around avatar content which incidentally has been shown to be the best game format to overcome the social wall that CCP seagull is worried about and create new customers that remain customers. For any business it has to be easier to keep an existing customer than to go chasing new ones all of the time. I'm just amazed that ccp can't see that.
Well, the current trend is that that inbreed growth is slowly overtaking natural growth. Numbers show how PCU climbs up along the way to a expansion, then declines back, and the pattern is quite evident. People comes back for the expansion, trys it, don't like it, leave, and PCU returns to normality. It's a very unstable situation as it would take a single failed expansion to crash the PCU.
I rejoined for the CSM elections and Fanfest, and have stayed until the summer minutes. Probably will be back for Fanfest, or sooner, or later, don't know and don't care.
In a strategic sense, we can't do anyhting but tell CCP how and where to spend the Valkyrie money faucet in case that it materialyzes, because they already are doing everything they can/want to do for EVE.
We may agree upon ourselves and shout about how incredibly ret'd is to focus on a minoritary feature for three years, but, it's not our business, nor are our careers, nor anything ours but a passtime.
If they're willing to bet that everyone not in a nullsec uberalliance will wait until they are in the mood or the shape or the capability to please them, well, let them have it that way.
We told them so, all the way from the appaling Sisi disclosure of the first CQ in 2011 to the avatar-free CSM summer rminutes of 2013. And probably we will keep saying it no matter the odds. Being silent is not an option. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Dorijan
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
40
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 11:17:00 -
[3437] - Quote
The one thing I absolutely hated about Star Trek Online were the ground missions. Let's see if it'll be the same with EVA. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1274
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 11:47:00 -
[3438] - Quote
EVE has a great story behind it that unfortunately isn't told by shooting red crosses in space. I believe that developing avatar based game play would help create a more immersive experience which would attract new player and retain them.
I was open minded about ccp's plans to improve the space ship experience in EVE but a year down the line, they haven't really added anything new and exciting to the game. I think it would be better for EVE in the long run if they split their development team and put half on fixing and improving spaceships, while the other half implemented RPG style avatar based gameplay. +1 |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2907
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 12:36:00 -
[3439] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:EVE has a great story behind it that unfortunately isn't told by shooting red crosses in space. I believe that developing avatar based game play would help create a more immersive experience which would attract new player and retain them.
I was open minded about ccp's plans to improve the space ship experience in EVE but a year down the line, they haven't really added anything new and exciting to the game. I think it would be better for EVE in the long run if they split their development team and put half on fixing and improving spaceships, while the other half implemented RPG style avatar based gameplay.
I agree with the sentiment completely, except I would make a small amendment. I wouldn't cut their current Eve resources in half, I would reallocate all the Valkyrie team back to Eve and get that proportion of development working on Avatar content. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
914
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 16:42:00 -
[3440] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rek Seven wrote:EVE has a great story behind it that unfortunately isn't told by shooting red crosses in space. I believe that developing avatar based game play would help create a more immersive experience which would attract new player and retain them.
I was open minded about ccp's plans to improve the space ship experience in EVE but a year down the line, they haven't really added anything new and exciting to the game. I think it would be better for EVE in the long run if they split their development team and put half on fixing and improving spaceships, while the other half implemented RPG style avatar based gameplay. I agree with the sentiment completely, except I would make a small amendment. I wouldn't cut their current Eve resources in half, I would reallocate all the Valkyrie team back to Eve and get that proportion of development working on Avatar content. They're running too many projects. Go back to working on Valkyrie after some of the others are pulling in an income. Dust and WoD are a long way from holding their own weight.
Couldn't have said it better myself. It's the side projects that have put Eve in maintenance mode. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
356
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 22:49:00 -
[3441] - Quote
http://themittani.com/features/falling-subscription-numbers-what-can-be-done
The answer: CCP actually working on this. Incarna is likely to be the number one piece of content that attracts new players. Deployable structures will not attract new players. Rebalancing capital ships will not attract new players.
THIS WILL ATTRACT NEW PLAYERS. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
356
|
Posted - 2014.01.14 22:53:00 -
[3442] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:With CSM remaining rather focused on the matters that actually matter, I guess one of the NDA features could be a long-term sov revamp or changes to POSes. Which is, pretty much, the next thing we need.
Right after another round of what amusingly mostly forumgoers cry about - rebalancing. A chunk of T2 ships is still waiting for their turn..
None of the things on this list attract new players. That's what you aren't understanding. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1024
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 00:54:00 -
[3443] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:http://themittani.com/features/falling-subscription-numbers-what-can-be-done
Lol, that article is hylarious and out of touch with the real world. That's sad cause that guy, on the countrary, often write intelligent stuff.
|
Sirinda
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
291
|
Posted - 2014.01.15 02:01:00 -
[3444] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Crasniya wrote:http://themittani.com/features/falling-subscription-numbers-what-can-be-done Lol, that article is hylarious and out of touch with the real world. That's sad cause that guy, on the countrary, often write intelligent stuff.
Well, feel free to substantiate your opinion with facts at your leisure.
Also:
hilarious because contrary writes |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1010
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 04:10:00 -
[3445] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:http://themittani.com/features/falling-subscription-numbers-what-can-be-done
The answer: CCP actually working on this. Incarna is likely to be the number one piece of content that attracts new players. Deployable structures will not attract new players. Rebalancing capital ships will not attract new players.
THIS WILL ATTRACT NEW PLAYERS.
Incarna, rightly done, would help.
If I had it my way. I would be getting CCP to prioritise modular POS's with interiors. Let players build a real home in space. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Arduemont
The State of War.
2914
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 11:43:00 -
[3446] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Crasniya wrote:http://themittani.com/features/falling-subscription-numbers-what-can-be-done
The answer: CCP actually working on this. Incarna is likely to be the number one piece of content that attracts new players. Deployable structures will not attract new players. Rebalancing capital ships will not attract new players.
THIS WILL ATTRACT NEW PLAYERS. Incarna, rightly done, would help. If I had it my way. I would be getting CCP to prioritise modular POS's with interiors. Let players build a real home in space.
I've asserted something similar to this before, but not in so few words. Modular POSes with Interiors is more or less exactly the direction I would want Eve moving towards. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1013
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 07:55:00 -
[3447] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Flamespar wrote:Crasniya wrote:http://themittani.com/features/falling-subscription-numbers-what-can-be-done
The answer: CCP actually working on this. Incarna is likely to be the number one piece of content that attracts new players. Deployable structures will not attract new players. Rebalancing capital ships will not attract new players.
THIS WILL ATTRACT NEW PLAYERS. Incarna, rightly done, would help. If I had it my way. I would be getting CCP to prioritise modular POS's with interiors. Let players build a real home in space. I've asserted something similar to this before, but not in so few words. Modular POSes with Interiors is more or less exactly the direction I would want Eve moving towards.
It's a shame that modular POS's seem to be on a slow burn at the moment. If you think about it, a POS revamp could meet the needs of multiple groups in EVE. From Deathstars for the alliances, to the clubhouse in space for the avatar and social types, to industrial powerhouse for the industrialists, to a resupply and storehouse for the solo types. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
263
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:07:00 -
[3448] - Quote
We need more underwear!!! Create a new, pretty, female character! Make the name count! Join the epic boo bees! (RP,PvE/PvP,wardecs,new players!) You're at it from day 0! |
Sarah Nalelmir
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:27:00 -
[3449] - Quote
How about finally allowing us to walk around inside a station, how long does it take to decontaminate station air for capsuleers huh ? |
Sarah Nalelmir
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 14:27:00 -
[3450] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:We need more underwear!!!
You mean less |
|
Arduemont
The State of War.
2917
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 15:39:00 -
[3451] - Quote
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:We need more underwear!!! You mean less
And we wonder why those of us who support Avatar content have this negative 'barbie lover' stereotype. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
279
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 18:03:00 -
[3452] - Quote
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:We need more underwear!!! You mean less Both! :D
Arduemont wrote:Sarah Nalelmir wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:We need more underwear!!! You mean less And we wonder why those of us who support Avatar content have this negative 'barbie lover' stereotype. Awwww somebody needs a huuuug! *hugs* <3 :D Don't be so daft! :D You don't even know what you're writing, so how about using words you actually know the meaning of? That'd help you a LOT in your life, sweety! :D
There is nothing Barbie about me. ^^ Create a new, pretty, female character! Make the name count! Join the epic boo bees! (RP,PvE/PvP,wardecs,new players!) You're at it from day 0! |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
1087
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:02:00 -
[3453] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Awwww somebody needs a huuuug! *hugs* <3 :D Don't be so daft! :D You don't even know what you're writing, so how about using words you actually know the meaning of? That'd help you a LOT in your life, sweety! :D
There is nothing Barbie about me. ^^
On the off chance you're not a forum troll alt, you are not stating anything that aids those seeking the implementation of this feature and have pretty much lost all credibility you may have had in this thread. wumbo |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
815
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 06:03:00 -
[3454] - Quote
Can we please keep it civil? thanks. This is a very good topic. I like to read everything not some random troll post here and there. And yes even this is a none topic issue answer. But some one needs to say it atleast i hope a dev remove those nonsense post so we can keep this clean and going back to track! |
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
291
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 07:02:00 -
[3455] - Quote
Eli Green wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Awwww somebody needs a huuuug! *hugs* <3 :D Don't be so daft! :D You don't even know what you're writing, so how about using words you actually know the meaning of? That'd help you a LOT in your life, sweety! :D
There is nothing Barbie about me. ^^ On the off chance you're not a forum troll alt, you are not stating anything that aids those seeking the implementation of this feature and have pretty much lost all credibility you may have had in this thread. Yes, Master! That wasn't what you said yesterday in private chat, though... Create a new, pretty, female character! Make the name count! Join the epic boo bees! (RP,PvE/PvP,wardecs,new players!) You're at it from day 0! |
Other Minion
Mining Bay inc Beacon Light Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 09:29:00 -
[3456] - Quote
I would love to have alternatives to spinning my ship in stations. I have always thought of how cool it would be to be able to chill in a bar or the back room of my corps office while sitting in station. Maybe sitting in a booth or at a table with some of my corp mates playing cards or other games. Betting real isk and all that stuff. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Direwolf-Rayet skylian Verge
173
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 13:04:00 -
[3457] - Quote
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:How about finally allowing us to walk around inside a station, how long does it take to decontaminate station air for capsuleers huh ?
They've tried to do that but Scotty the docking manager reported that someone farted really bad inside one of the stations when Incarna came out. Scotty retired a couple of months later so there's no one to check if the contamination is still there or not. CCP Ytterbium: Yarrblblbgrlblbgrlblblblbblbgrlblblbgrblblyarrrrdrooooooolonthekeyboardlikealunatic |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2924
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 15:41:00 -
[3458] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Awwww somebody needs a huuuug! *hugs* <3 :D Don't be so daft! :D You don't even know what you're writing, so how about using words you actually know the meaning of? That'd help you a LOT in your life, sweety! :D
There is nothing Barbie about me. ^^
You don't look smart when you lash our like that. You look like a petulant child. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Silent Rambo
State Protectorate Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 17:37:00 -
[3459] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote: There is nothing Barbie about me. ^^
Yeah totally. The corporation you are in isn't about the way avatars look or anything.
I wonder why stargate building is being pushed before WIS. Stargate building is something only a select few can actually be part of, where WIS would be for almost everyone. So much classism in EvE development.
You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies? |
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
309
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 21:07:00 -
[3460] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote: There is nothing Barbie about me. ^^
Yeah totally. The corporation you are in isn't about the way avatars look or anything. Not everything you *think* belongs into a category actually belongs into said category. :) Maybe you should just open your eyes, see, compare and think.
Don't be a narrow minded victim, like the posters above you. :) Create a new, pretty, female character! Make the name count! Join the epic boo bees! (RP,PvE/PvP,wardecs,new players!) You're at it from day 0! |
|
Silent Rambo
State Protectorate Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 22:05:00 -
[3461] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Silent Rambo wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote: There is nothing Barbie about me. ^^
Yeah totally. The corporation you are in isn't about the way avatars look or anything. Not everything you *think* belongs into a category actually belongs into said category. :) Maybe you should just open your eyes, see, compare and think. Don't be a narrow minded victim, like the posters above you. :)
*hugs* <3 You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies? |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
974
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 01:47:00 -
[3462] - Quote
Today, CCP stealthily announced the introduction, in Rubicon 1.1, of the first multiplayer avatar gameplay in EVE Online: Sitting in Frigates. Players Sitting in Frigates will be able to enjoy the company of up to two other capsuleers in their disposable hulls, leer madly while firing weapons, and give each other crap.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Tysun Kane
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 02:37:00 -
[3463] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Today, CCP stealthily announced the introduction, in Rubicon 1.1, of the first multiplayer avatar gameplay in EVE Online: Sitting in Frigates. Players Sitting in Frigates will be able to enjoy the company of up to two other capsuleers in their disposable hulls, leer madly while firing weapons, and give each other crap.
I noticed that but didnt want to get my hopes up. We will see what happens. |
Oberine Noriepa
1421
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 05:38:00 -
[3464] - Quote
Uhh... he's being sarcastic, you know. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
372
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 22:06:00 -
[3465] - Quote
Topic hasn't been poked in three days. *lovingly pokes the thread*
Maybe when the Fanfest cinematic gurus are all mulling over how to make cool trailers, the topic of revisiting this might come up in discussion somewhere? |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
963
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 00:07:00 -
[3466] - Quote
Tysun Kane wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Today, CCP stealthily announced the introduction, in Rubicon 1.1, of the first multiplayer avatar gameplay in EVE Online: Sitting in Frigates. Players Sitting in Frigates will be able to enjoy the company of up to two other capsuleers in their disposable hulls, leer madly while firing weapons, and give each other crap.
I noticed that but didnt want to get my hopes up. We will see what happens.
It did give me an idea though (as clearly wer're pod pilots and float in goo in a steel tomb) about the projected images or avatar pictures we get in the chat window, aka profile pics. How about animating them to lip sync when someone speaks via eve voice. It's not true avatar content but it might make people care enough about their avatar to support more avatar content in the future not to mention the obvious social benefit. If done properly in a quality way it might make a dent in the social wall that CCP seagull is desperate to demolish.
Have them animate in a the chat window instead of just moving recent speakers to the top as an optional only feature as well organised fleets won't need this but it might be fun for small gangs. Likewise if people don't like this they can switch it off or carry on using ts etc. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
372
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 00:26:00 -
[3467] - Quote
As silly as Sitting in Frigates sounds, if CCP did it, they could maybe do a generic frigate bridge for each race, and they'd basically have matched where Star Citizen is in development right now. ;) |
Zyklon Stargazer
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:29:00 -
[3468] - Quote
Wish they would just release this stuff already. Wouldnt be giving star citizen a 2nd thought if we could just open the door.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
1015
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 22:55:00 -
[3469] - Quote
I wonder if it was discussed at the CSM summit.
If it was its likely to be under NDA anyway.
Star citizen continues to look like an attractive alternative to EVE. I hope the competition it brings causes CCP to do something exciting again. Seriously none of the recent expansions, whilst having some nice things in the, have even been remotely exciting. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Tysun Kane
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 23:12:00 -
[3470] - Quote
Zyklon Stargazer wrote:Wish they would just release this stuff already. Wouldnt be giving star citizen a 2nd thought if we could just open the door.
+1 |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
966
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 23:16:00 -
[3471] - Quote
Zyklon Stargazer wrote:Wish they would just release this stuff already. Wouldnt be giving star citizen a 2nd thought if we could just open the door.
+1 Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1016
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 07:27:00 -
[3472] - Quote
I have looked into the future.
Dust 514 players will be getting to explore derelicts in the manner suggested by the OP. EVE players will not. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2930
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 14:58:00 -
[3473] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I have looked into the future.
Dust 514 players will be getting to explore derelicts in the manner suggested by the OP. EVE players will not.
Pffft... The thought of Dust surviving that far into the future are fairly implausible. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
539
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 16:08:00 -
[3474] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I wonder if it was discussed at the CSM summit.
If it was its likely to be under NDA anyway.
Star citizen continues to look like an attractive alternative to EVE. I hope the competition it brings causes CCP to do something exciting again. Seriously none of the recent expansions, whilst having some nice things in the, have even been remotely exciting.
lol...if Star Citizen even gets released it's not a MMORPG. I also don't see wizard robes or Barbie gowns on the list of features. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Silent Rambo
State Protectorate Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 17:07:00 -
[3475] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Flamespar wrote:I have looked into the future.
Dust 514 players will be getting to explore derelicts in the manner suggested by the OP. EVE players will not. Pffft... The thought of Dust surviving that far into the future are fairly implausible.
I don't think Dust will die on the PS3. The last thing CCP will do with Dust, if its in really dire straits, is a PC port. If it dwindles on PC, then the plug will be pulled, but it probably wouldn't dwindle on the PC for a while, since it would get a large influx of EvE players, general PC shooter players, and other players without PS3's.
As long as they are smart and have this contingency, then Dust will survive into the future. If they developed without a PC port in mind (which with keyboard and mouse control is fairly obvious that they did plan for this), then it could potentially be in trouble as the amount of money to make a port might exceed the expected return of said PC port. You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies? |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1019
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 07:59:00 -
[3476] - Quote
Dust514 seems to have improved lately. Don't know if it's enough for it to profitable, but there has definitely been some small improvement.
The reason why I think Dust players will be walking in derelicts before us is because most of the technology is already in game. Just add PVE and some new levels.
It would annoy me greatly if it happened though. As it would be another broken promise as far as I'm concerned. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
10
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 08:05:00 -
[3477] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Dust514 seems to have improved lately. Don't know if it's enough for it to profitable, but there has definitely been some small improvement.
The reason why I think Dust players will be walking in derelicts before us is because most of the technology is already in game. Just add PVE and some new levels.
It would annoy me greatly if it happened though. As it would be another broken promise as far as I'm concerned.
I think the eve client still has all the assets to Wis on the hdd... Dont Think all that 12gb of data is just systems... The biggest issue i have is the fact we pretty much are funding dust 514 and EvR all we get out of the deal is broken promises....
|
Samoth Egnoled
32974
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 08:26:00 -
[3478] - Quote
It is truly sad that the Dev focus has gone off of Eve and onto Dust and VR, It appears that they have just gotten bored with Eve the same way the blizzard devs had with WoW and Trion with Rift. Now we are spoon fed broken patches and told to be grateful for what we get, let alone what they pass off as expansions these days.
After 9 years of playing this game it's disgraceful to see Eve pushed aside when so many great ideas are just ignored, and the current Devs churn out useless modules to cater for the WoW crowd rather than making any attempt to engage the players they already have. I'm not saying we shouldnt encourage new blood to the game, just that you shouldn't **** on your own doorstep and expect people to be happy about it.
I seriously hope that someone with half a brain in CCP gets wind of plea threads like these and takes notice for once, contrary to common opinion we do actually want to make this game better. Ego Sum Mortem Incarnatum - I Am Death Incarnate |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
10
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 08:32:00 -
[3479] - Quote
There not even expansions those actually add things to do.... rifter revise number 5 with cherry red paint doesn't constitute expansion worthy material. Honestly not even sure if they care so long as they get there monthly dues. |
Inari Visas
X-Prot Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
19
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 09:35:00 -
[3480] - Quote
Star Citizen s all well and good, but EVE should keep it's own image and authenticity intact. I wouldn't mind vanity content such as opening a door and walking inside my frigate, but it's still vanity content. Nothing really meaningful. I think eve is at a point that whatever they want to add in order to call is an expansion (in the veins of other mmos), needs to be grand. Only if you want it to be meaningful.
I may be half correct, but that's my 2 isk. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
562
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 13:51:00 -
[3481] - Quote
Samoth Egnoled wrote:It is truly sad that the Dev focus has gone off of Eve and onto Dust and VR, It appears that they have just gotten bored with Eve the same way the blizzard devs had with WoW and Trion with Rift. Now we are spoon fed broken patches and told to be grateful for what we get, let alone what they pass off as expansions these days.
After 9 years of playing this game it's disgraceful to see Eve pushed aside when so many great ideas are just ignored, and the current Devs churn out useless modules to cater for the WoW crowd rather than making any attempt to engage the players they already have. I'm not saying we shouldnt encourage new blood to the game, just that you shouldn't **** on your own doorstep and expect people to be happy about it.
I seriously hope that someone with half a brain in CCP gets wind of plea threads like these and takes notice for once, contrary to common opinion we do actually want to make this game better. So you're upset that CCP ignores Eve to focus on DUST but you hope that they, instead, will ignore Eve by focusing on WiS?
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2937
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:24:00 -
[3482] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Samoth Egnoled wrote:It is truly sad that the Dev focus has gone off of Eve and onto Dust and VR, It appears that they have just gotten bored with Eve the same way the blizzard devs had with WoW and Trion with Rift. Now we are spoon fed broken patches and told to be grateful for what we get, let alone what they pass off as expansions these days.
After 9 years of playing this game it's disgraceful to see Eve pushed aside when so many great ideas are just ignored, and the current Devs churn out useless modules to cater for the WoW crowd rather than making any attempt to engage the players they already have. I'm not saying we shouldnt encourage new blood to the game, just that you shouldn't **** on your own doorstep and expect people to be happy about it.
I seriously hope that someone with half a brain in CCP gets wind of plea threads like these and takes notice for once, contrary to common opinion we do actually want to make this game better. So you're upset that CCP ignores Eve to focus on DUST but you hope that they, instead, will ignore Eve by focusing on WiS?
Or they could ignore Valkyrie/Dust, and put just as much work on ongoing Eve projects AND add Avatar content without negatively affecting the Eve development that 'you want'. They're not mutually exclusive Rhes. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
562
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:26:00 -
[3483] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Or they could ignore Valkyrie/Dust, and put just as much work on ongoing Eve projects AND add Avatar content without negatively affecting the Eve development that 'you want'. They're not mutually exclusive Rhes. Of course they are. Any development time or money spent on WiS nonsense is development time or money not being spent on real Eve content. I'd love to see CCP stop wasting effort on Dust and Valkyrie but if they did they should redirect those resources to spaceships. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2937
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:32:00 -
[3484] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Or they could ignore Valkyrie/Dust, and put just as much work on ongoing Eve projects AND add Avatar content without negatively affecting the Eve development that 'you want'. They're not mutually exclusive Rhes. Of course they are. Any development time or money spent on WiS nonsense is development time or money not being spent on real Eve content. I'd love to see CCP stop wasting effort on Dust and Valkyrie but if they did they should redirect those resources to spaceships.
You know, if you love spaceships so much maybe you should play a spaceship sim. Eve is an MMO, a social monster, where a great many of the people who play successfully hardly ever need to undock. Spaceships are the medium of our gameplay, but they are not the gameplay itself. A great many of the things that are important in Eve don't require spaceships at all. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
564
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:11:00 -
[3485] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:You know, if you love spaceships so much maybe you should play a spaceship sim. Eve is an MMO, a social monster, where a great many of the people who play successfully hardly ever need to undock. Spaceships are the medium of our gameplay, but they are not the gameplay itself. A great many of the things that are important in Eve don't require spaceships at all. A better way to say what you're trying to say is that Eve is a sandbox and spaceships are how we interact with that sandbox. CCP is really good at utilizing spaceships to make the sandbox fun but they have a pretty horrible track record when it comes to shoehorning avatar gameplay into their spaceship game. Why wouldn't you want them to continue to do what they are good at? EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2937
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:40:00 -
[3486] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:You know, if you love spaceships so much maybe you should play a spaceship sim. Eve is an MMO, a social monster, where a great many of the people who play successfully hardly ever need to undock. Spaceships are the medium of our gameplay, but they are not the gameplay itself. A great many of the things that are important in Eve don't require spaceships at all. A better way to say what you're trying to say is that Eve is a sandbox and spaceships are how we interact with that sandbox. CCP is really good at utilizing spaceships to make the sandbox fun but they have a pretty horrible track record when it comes to shoehorning avatar gameplay into their spaceship game. Why wouldn't you want them to continue to do what they are good at?
A track record implies multiple events. One expansion is not a track record. If your not willing to give them a second chance then I understand your hesitancy, but a lot of people want to see that second chance.
Quote:Why wouldn't you want them to continue to do what they are good at? I do want them to. The difference between you and I is I believe they can be good at this. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
564
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:53:00 -
[3487] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:A track record implies multiple events. One expansion is not a track record. If your not willing to give them a second chance then I understand your hesitancy, but a lot of people want to see that second chance. The track record consists of Incarna, DUST and the WoD vaporware game. That's three chances!
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2937
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:29:00 -
[3488] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:A track record implies multiple events. One expansion is not a track record. If your not willing to give them a second chance then I understand your hesitancy, but a lot of people want to see that second chance. The track record consists of Incarna, DUST and the WoD vaporware game. That's three chances!
Rhes wrote:they have a pretty horrible track record when it comes to shoehorning avatar gameplay into their spaceship game.
I'm counting one from where I am sitting. Dust and WoD aren't 'shoehorning avatar gameplay' into a spaceship game. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
564
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:43:00 -
[3489] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:A track record implies multiple events. One expansion is not a track record. If your not willing to give them a second chance then I understand your hesitancy, but a lot of people want to see that second chance. The track record consists of Incarna, DUST and the WoD vaporware game. That's three chances! Rhes wrote:they have a pretty horrible track record when it comes to shoehorning avatar gameplay into their spaceship game. I'm counting one from where I am sitting. Dust and WoD aren't ' shoehorning avatar gameplay' into a spaceship game. So your argument is that the horrible DUST avatar gameplay or the non-existant WoD avatar gameplay would translate perfectly to Eve? Or is it that CCP should spend another two years ignoring Eve to come up with a whole new framework?
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2937
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:46:00 -
[3490] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:A track record implies multiple events. One expansion is not a track record. If your not willing to give them a second chance then I understand your hesitancy, but a lot of people want to see that second chance. The track record consists of Incarna, DUST and the WoD vaporware game. That's three chances! Rhes wrote:they have a pretty horrible track record when it comes to shoehorning avatar gameplay into their spaceship game. I'm counting one from where I am sitting. Dust and WoD aren't ' shoehorning avatar gameplay' into a spaceship game. So your argument is that the horrible DUST avatar gameplay or the non-existant WoD avatar gameplay would translate perfectly to Eve? Or is it that CCP should spend another two years ignoring Eve to come up with a whole new framework?
Here, we go with the 'Two years of neglect' bullshit that you attribute to WiS, but actually have nothing to do with it. You got any sources? Or are you just happy to make stuff up? "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
564
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:48:00 -
[3491] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Here, we go with the 'Two years of neglect' bullshit that you attribute to WiS, but actually have nothing to do with it. You got any sources? Or are you just happy to make stuff up? What content was added to the game in the two years WiS was being implemented that actually worked when it was released. This is another one of my questions you've never been able to answer. I'm starting to think you may not actually know what you're talking about.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2937
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:53:00 -
[3492] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Here, we go with the 'Two years of neglect' bullshit that you attribute to WiS, but actually have nothing to do with it. You got any sources? Or are you just happy to make stuff up? What content was added to the game in the two years WiS was being implemented that actually worked when it was released. This is another one of my questions you've never been able to answer. I'm starting to think you may not actually know what you're talking about.
The question is irrelevant. It doesn't need answering. Yes, the game was neglected. But not because of WiS. That's your bullshit to prove. You have nothing. Literally nothing. Zip. Squat. Nada. Those two years weren't spent on the captains quarters. Simple. As. That.
To paraphrase Tim Minchin
'Show me that they spent two years on the captains quarters and I will change my mind, I will spin on a ******* dime. I'll be as embarrassed as hell, but I will run through the streets screaming "It's a miracle, Rhes was right!"... and when I've recovered from the shock i'll take a compass and carve 'fancy that' on the side of my ****'. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Silivar Karkun
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
149
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:53:00 -
[3493] - Quote
as i've seen Arduemont post, that's the fundamental premise that keeps EVE locked from avatar interaction........the game was at its core designed around spaceship content.....practically the whole game revolves around them.......the rest of the content is tied to it one way o another. WiS wll only be part of the game unless CCP completelly reform the game and make it capsuleer centric.......this means, focusing in what the player's avatar can do, as i have explained several times in this thread, and as it was discussed in the EVE Vegas videos. the game has to move from being locked to an spaceship which houses a pilot. to a pilot who can also use drop suits and/or pilot a fighter too, along with other vehicles.
unless we get an EVE game where the player can explore and interact wth the whole universe seamlessly using the tools he wants and the transportation medium he wants (dropsuits, planetary vehicles, spaceships, fighters, heck even animal mounts could be avaliable).....
WiS will never be part of EVE no matter how much you want the door to be opened it doesnt give anything unless there's actually something meaningull to do out there, be it killing other players while using a dropsuit when invading an enemy station, exploring the inside of an sleeper complex with weapons and archeology/hacking kits in inventory, or even extracting and crafting planetary commodities on the surface of a planet and later selling them in an alliance owned city......the possibilities are endless...... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
966
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:57:00 -
[3494] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Dust514 seems to have improved lately. Don't know if it's enough for it to profitable, but there has definitely been some small improvement.
The reason why I think Dust players will be walking in derelicts before us is because most of the technology is already in game. Just add PVE and some new levels.
It would annoy me greatly if it happened though. As it would be another broken promise as far as I'm concerned.
I remember watching a youtube video Hilmar at a keynote speaker at Fanfest when he referred back to the atmospheric flight demo shown five years ago, claiming that now they had delivered it as it's possible to fly a vehicle over the planetary surface in dust, claiming to all that they'd somehow fulfilled their promise when in fact the original demo was shown well before dust was a thing. It's obvious that the original promise was that this would happen within the Eve (FIS) client, but that's a CCP promise for you. I mean these should be politicians. So yes in essence It wouldn't surprise me one bit if this ace bit of development found it's way into dust as a way propping up that already dead enterprise. Whilst I look forward to valkyrie I can't help but think that it's also doomed to failure. They might as well include both games as a free of charge optional download for PC alongside the eve client as that is the only way either of those games have any meaningful future. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
966
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:10:00 -
[3495] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:A track record implies multiple events. One expansion is not a track record. If your not willing to give them a second chance then I understand your hesitancy, but a lot of people want to see that second chance. The track record consists of Incarna, DUST and the WoD vaporware game. That's three chances! Rhes wrote:they have a pretty horrible track record when it comes to shoehorning avatar gameplay into their spaceship game. I'm counting one from where I am sitting. Dust and WoD aren't ' shoehorning avatar gameplay' into a spaceship game. So your argument is that the horrible DUST avatar gameplay or the non-existant WoD avatar gameplay would translate perfectly to Eve? Or is it that CCP should spend another two years ignoring Eve to come up with a whole new framework?
I don't see any avatar gameplay in the fps that is dust. Plus we've had two years since Incarna in which CCP have blissfully ignored EVE. Ship rebalancing and modules like the ESS (chase the Egg/Beacon Hunt) do not improve gamplay when everyone agrees that POS's and SOV are completely ******.
It's strange though that I am not seeing any development on SOV/POS's that's because Eve has been put into maintenance mode whilst CCP develops other things in the hope of creating multiple streams of income. I've got no problem with any company wanting more than one income stream, from a business point of view it's clearly a sensible thing to do. Thing is it shouldn't be done on the cheap (which is what CCP is doing by not employing new developers and teams to do this) and this miserable situation is all because some people with a smilar outlook to Rhes hijacked community anger over the next store and the greed is good memo to torpedo avatar content. So Rhes you can thank your cohorts for putting eve in a permanent state of no development. That fact that SOV isn't ever going to be fixed and POS's are a long way (perhaps ten years away) from being looked at is the fault of your fellow buddies who don't like Avatar content.
You've killed your own game. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1049
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:39:00 -
[3496] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:WiS will never be part of EVE no matter how much you want the door to be opened it doesnt give anything unless there's actually something meaningull to do out there, be it killing other players while using a dropsuit when invading an enemy station, exploring the inside of an sleeper complex with weapons and archeology/hacking kits in inventory, or even extracting and crafting planetary commodities on the surface of a planet and later selling them in an alliance owned city......the possibilities are endless......
I think you're on spot here. However all this can't be done all togheter, need a step by step progression. And the first, basic, step for any avatar gameplay is having more than one avatar interacting in a shared envinroment. Then build on this base.
Spaceship based gameplay is the core of EVE, and any avatar implementation have to be linked directly or indirectly to it. Problem here is that spaceship mechanics are deeply developed and mature.While there're are several other areas of the game that need some serious attention and developments (WiS is only one of these).
CCP having troubles to keep the game alive and eventually growing again. They keep shuffling spaceship stats becuase is the more easy and cheap things to do; but when they try to add something new to this area they struggle, create ships clones, or risk o mess things with questionable design like the new deployables.
On the countrary WiS offer a virgin terrain to develop and expand EVE. There was a good post from Malcanis with a good analysis of this, but now I can't find it.
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
979
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:09:00 -
[3497] - Quote
What it comes down to is that WiS is not an expansion. It's at least one new game. On of CCP's mistakes was that they didn't realize that--but there were lots of other mistakes they made as well. CCP will do it, one way or another, because it has been their plan from the beginning to simulate a universe. There are a number of very good reasons why ships were the place to start, but it was never the plan that EVE would only be spaceships, and it will never be. That's their current focus, and it should be, because it's the shipping game. But all you need to do is watch their aspirational trailers and promotional videos to see where they want things to be.
Those of you crowing over the failures of DUST and WoD to launch into the MMO stratosphere have forgotten that if CCP felt that way about EVE, they'd have shuttered it after its incredibly rocky start. Instead, they risked their own homes to pull it through. They're playing a long game here. I'm not saying they'll succeed, I'm just saying that they're giving themselves a long timeline and a lot of chances to get those games polished up. They've developed a shipping game before, after all; I remember it was right around Crucible that someone joked that EVE was finally out of beta.
The thing I love most about CCP is that they are still that crazy. EVE will start to wither the minute they lose that gleam in their eyes and fall back on focus-group-tested features and timid expansions exclusively. My optimism comes from the observable fact that, since (the months leading up to) Crucible, CCP has also shown an ability to execute in addition to its ability to dream big.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1226
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:51:00 -
[3498] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote: The track record consists of Incarna, DUST and the WoD vaporware game. That's three chances!
Rhes wrote:they have a pretty horrible track record when it comes to shoehorning avatar gameplay into their spaceship game. I'm counting one from where I am sitting. Dust and WoD aren't ' shoehorning avatar gameplay' into a spaceship game. So your argument is that the horrible DUST avatar gameplay or the non-existant WoD avatar gameplay would translate perfectly to Eve? Or is it that CCP should spend another two years ignoring Eve to come up with a whole new framework? I don't see any avatar gameplay in the fps that is dust. Plus we've had two years since Incarna in which CCP have blissfully ignored EVE. Ship rebalancing and modules like the ESS (chase the Egg/Beacon Hunt) do not improve gamplay when everyone agrees that POS's and SOV are completely ******. It's strange though that I am not seeing any development on SOV/POS's that's because Eve has been put into maintenance mode whilst CCP develops other things in the hope of creating multiple streams of income. I've got no problem with any company wanting more than one income stream, from a business point of view it's clearly a sensible thing to do. Thing is it shouldn't be done on the cheap (which is what CCP is doing by not employing new developers and teams to do this) and this miserable situation is all because some people with a smilar outlook to Rhes hijacked community anger over the next store and the greed is good memo to torpedo avatar content. So Rhes you can thank your cohorts for putting eve in a permanent state of no development. That fact that SOV isn't ever going to be fixed and POS's are a long way (perhaps ten years away) from being looked at is the fault of your fellow buddies who don't like Avatar content. You've killed your own game.
Crucible, Inferno, Retribution, Odyssey and Rubicon are the best expansions of EvE Online, the game is in better shape than ever before. The Tears Must Flow |
Silivar Karkun
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
150
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:28:00 -
[3499] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:WiS will never be part of EVE no matter how much you want the door to be opened it doesnt give anything unless there's actually something meaningull to do out there, be it killing other players while using a dropsuit when invading an enemy station, exploring the inside of an sleeper complex with weapons and archeology/hacking kits in inventory, or even extracting and crafting planetary commodities on the surface of a planet and later selling them in an alliance owned city......the possibilities are endless...... I think you're on spot here. However all this can't be done all togheter, need a step by step progression. And the first, basic, step for any avatar gameplay is having more than one avatar interacting in a shared envinroment. Then build on this base. Spaceship based gameplay is the core of EVE, and any avatar implementation have to be linked directly or indirectly to it. Problem here is that spaceship mechanics are deeply developed and mature.While there're are several other areas of the game that need some serious attention and developments (WiS is only one of these). CCP having troubles to keep the game alive and eventually growing again. They keep shuffling spaceship stats becuase is the more easy and cheap things to do; but when they try to add something new to this area they struggle, create ships clones, or risk o mess things with questionable design like the new deployables. On the countrary WiS offer a virgin terrain to develop and expand EVE. There was a good post from Malcanis with a good analysis of this, but now I can't find it.
step by step progression is what CCP has been doing since the start, and its of course admirable, but in order to put WiS in function as i explained it requires making big expansions.......bigger than Apocrypha in order to put it to function......a character editor and a bunch of places to visit isnt enough for the scope of what WiS can be.......it needs to be done with the same effort as with the spaceship content of the last 10 years......even more..... |
Zyklon Stargazer
Heavy Casuality Collective WHY so Seri0Us
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 23:23:00 -
[3500] - Quote
This thread deserves a sticky. |
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
1021
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 04:16:00 -
[3501] - Quote
Doesn't need one. It's something players want and aren't willing to give up asking.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 06:06:00 -
[3502] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Doesn't need one. It's something players want and aren't willing to give up asking.
No and honestly they need to actually complete it...
People say core game needs to be re balanced sov/low sec needs overhauled you know what you don't need expansions to revamp those that should be going on though mini patches throughout the year. New colored ships also umm Really don't care just give us what you promised before that with decal's and ship coloring u will never have to release another skin for a ship ever....
We want content we want stuff that expands the game and makes it better new space new exploration the ability to have a life or take over empires from the ground ....... Honestly we just want what you promised and cant ever seem to deliver..
Honestly i think the promise of eve the percetion that CCP gives eve in there videos and fanfest is diffrent then the reality of eve... Thats a sad thing. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
969
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 10:01:00 -
[3503] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: Crucible, Inferno, Retribution, Odyssey and Rubicon are the best expansions of EvE Online, the game is in better shape than ever before.
Yeah... sure...
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1025
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 11:01:00 -
[3504] - Quote
Wow. When you see the list of recent expansions like that, it really makes you realise how little has been added. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2954
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 11:04:00 -
[3505] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: Plus we've had two years since Incarna in which CCP have blissfully ignored EVE. Ship rebalancing and modules like the ESS (chase the Egg/Beacon Hunt) do not improve gamplay when everyone agrees that POS's and SOV are completely ******.
Crucible, Inferno, Retribution, Odyssey and Rubicon are the best expansions of EvE Online, the game is in better shape than ever before.
Crucible agreed. Crucible has been, for me, the best expansion yet. But, after the Incarna failure CCP moved EVERYONE from all their other projects back onto Eve to make the expansion bring people back. There are quotes from devs complaining about having been moved off their project to work on Eve. Inferno was good(if you happened to be affected by the changes that were made, lots of people were left out), sure. The other two were straight up boring. Odyssey worse than Rubicon.
Also, don't forget within the resounding success of Crucible, they added the other three Captains Quarters. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
198
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 14:32:00 -
[3506] - Quote
If you think CCP can't make this happen and work then you are sadly horribly utterly mistaken, for a game which is filled with pvp, EvE has:
-great lore -great descriptions -Character creation even better than the "carebear" MMOs -depth and beauty of the world -good music
that's kinda weird for a game supposedly all about "spaceship pvp" don't ya think ;) remember it's not just a spaceship game, the goal here is to make a great sci-fi game. (at least that's what I think they want, they did mention it once right?)
Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
597
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:04:00 -
[3507] - Quote
Anomaly Oneok great found it, the 4th dev post on this thread
CCP t0rfifrans wrote: [u wrote: Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator.[/u] Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting. Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1049
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:13:00 -
[3508] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:WiS will never be part of EVE no matter how much you want the door to be opened it doesnt give anything unless there's actually something meaningull to do out there, be it killing other players while using a dropsuit when invading an enemy station, exploring the inside of an sleeper complex with weapons and archeology/hacking kits in inventory, or even extracting and crafting planetary commodities on the surface of a planet and later selling them in an alliance owned city......the possibilities are endless...... I think you're on spot here. However all this can't be done all togheter, need a step by step progression. And the first, basic, step for any avatar gameplay is having more than one avatar interacting in a shared envinroment. Then build on this base. Spaceship based gameplay is the core of EVE, and any avatar implementation have to be linked directly or indirectly to it. Problem here is that spaceship mechanics are deeply developed and mature.While there're are several other areas of the game that need some serious attention and developments (WiS is only one of these). CCP having troubles to keep the game alive and eventually growing again. They keep shuffling spaceship stats becuase is the more easy and cheap things to do; but when they try to add something new to this area they struggle, create ships clones, or risk o mess things with questionable design like the new deployables. On the countrary WiS offer a virgin terrain to develop and expand EVE. There was a good post from Malcanis with a good analysis of this, but now I can't find it. step by step progression is what CCP has been doing since the start, and its of course admirable, but in order to put WiS in function as i explained it requires making big expansions.......bigger than Apocrypha in order to put it to function......a character editor and a bunch of places to visit isnt enough for the scope of what WiS can be.......it needs to be done with the same effort as with the spaceship content of the last 10 years......even more.....
|
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2954
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 18:11:00 -
[3509] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.
Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting? "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Davon Mandra'thin
Consultech Intermediary Services
479
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 18:26:00 -
[3510] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote: Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.
Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting?
Just ignore Rhes. They're beyond reasoning with. Even when someone has cut their circular arguments chain, they'll just glue it back together again and carry on. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
608
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 19:54:00 -
[3511] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote: Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.
Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting? Unless there is some secret WiS expansion coming out soon (there's not) all the proof I need is the current state of the game. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Elizabeth Brown
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:01:00 -
[3512] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote: Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.
Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting? Unless there is some secret WiS expansion coming out soon (there's not) all the proof I need is the current state of the game.
So, you don't need proof to believe what you believe, because your going to believe it anyway right? Also, CCP, are working on World of Darkness, they mentioned a timid 2015 release date. That's Avatar content being developed continuously, using the CARBON engine. Working with Avatars on the same engine that Eve uses, might not be 'working on Avatar content for Eve', but it's pretty close. Once WoD is out, using that knowledge to add to Eve shouldn't be difficult.
You can argue that you don't want them working on stuff because it will hurt the game that you want Eve to be, but they are already doing that by dedicating an entire office worth of developers to developing a CARBON based Avatar game. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
608
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:05:00 -
[3513] - Quote
Elizabeth Brown wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote: Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.
Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting? Unless there is some secret WiS expansion coming out soon (there's not) all the proof I need is the current state of the game. So, you don't need proof to believe what you believe, because your going to believe it anyway right? Also, CCP, are working on World of Darkness, they mentioned a timid 2015 release date. That's Avatar content being developed continuously, using the CARBON engine. Working with Avatars on the same engine that Eve uses, might not be 'working on Avatar content for Eve', but it's pretty close. Once WoD is out, using that knowledge to add to Eve shouldn't be difficult. You can argue that you don't want them working on stuff because it will hurt the game that you want Eve to be, but they are already doing that by dedicating an entire office worth of developers to developing a CARBON based Avatar game. Sorry but WoD is vaporware and won't be released in 2015. Bookmark this post and see if I'm wrong on 12/31/2015 (I won't be).
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2963
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:07:00 -
[3514] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Sorry but WoD is vaporware and won't be released in 2015. Bookmark this post and see if I'm wrong on 12/31/2015 (I won't be).
You really are a dumb ass. Yea, CCP has an office full of people working on a game they never intend to release. Of course, that makes perfect sense. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
608
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:16:00 -
[3515] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote: Sorry but WoD is vaporware and won't be released in 2015. Bookmark this post and see if I'm wrong on 12/31/2015 (I won't be).
You really are a dumb ass. Yea, CCP has an office full of people working on a game they never intend to release. Of course, that makes perfect sense. Like I said...bookmark my post and we'll see.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
994
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:35:00 -
[3516] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote: Sorry but WoD is vaporware and won't be released in 2015. Bookmark this post and see if I'm wrong on 12/31/2015 (I won't be).
You really are a dumb ass. Yea, CCP has an office full of people working on a game they never intend to release. Of course, that makes perfect sense. And the last news anyone had from that office was that even more people had been fired.
So one might question how full that office is.
CCP Eterne: Silly player, ALL devs are evil. CCP Fozzie: When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him.
|
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:53:00 -
[3517] - Quote
Rhes wrote:they have a pretty horrible track record when it comes to shoehorning avatar gameplay into their spaceship game.
Quote: You've killed your own game.
Crucible, Inferno, Retribution, Odyssey and Rubicon are the best expansions of EvE Online, the game is in better shape than ever before.
Lets get this right they are not expansions they are patches.... Expansions add content... Ship redesigned and fixing core mechanics that have been broken for 8 years isn't an expansion its an embarrassment.. There's a reason they don't charge for them they would get laughed out of the industry .
That being said.... This is what they needed to fix...
Expansion wise they need to open up more unexplored systems and new areas of discovery. Expand wormhole space. Revamp and retool Pi while i think pi Honestly atm is actually alot more fun then the real game i tihnk it can be expanded upon to just be more then Getting materials off planets... Examples of this
Expanding PI to inc operate Terra forming and colonization of planets with buildings defenses and industry. The ability to move resources between your planets to a player owned planet for future production or to a corp owned or privately owned base without user having to fly into space to pick it up..
Release Wis with meaningful content to foster growth in eve.. Player ran and owned star bases to entire planets and regions of space..
Low or-bate incursions and or mission's (you could even tie dust missions or contracts into this.)
Ability to re customize your ship with decals paint so on so forth.
What needs to happen throughout the year (not just twice a year and call it what you been calling it cause thats not cutting it.)
Revamp pos and Sov
Revamp of ship mechanics - Smaller ships should honestly be Fly by wire and not move the same way large ships do.. Would foster proper dogfights.
The ability for small ships to bump larger ships freighters caps super caps so on... (no offence if a frig bumped one of those ships its going to blow up not bump it..)
Aggression system needs some love... Non agressed targets or people that get agressed and cant return fire should not get the same GCD as someone that did the aggression.. EG no ability to use the stargate.
Dual corp citizenship... (running faction warfare should not remove you from your corp.... (you mean because im minmatar and joined a player corp i cant go do things to honor my people ?)
This is not ment to be a full list its just men't as a guideline..... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
969
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:55:00 -
[3518] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:ion is what CCP has been doing since the start, and its of course admirable, but in order to put WiS in function as i explained it requires making big expansions.......bigger than Apocrypha in order to put it to function......a character editor and a bunch of places to visit isnt enough for the scope of what WiS can be.......it needs to be done with the same effort as with the spaceship content of the last 10 years......even more..... Well, Apocrypha was a 3 months cycle expansion. But yes, it's hard, effort is required and "true" expansions. What I say is that can be splitted over time, don't have to be all together. When people talk about the "social" part of WiS, bars, cambling games and so on, is simply because this is the more easy and imemdiate possible application. A good base to start with. Then there's an industry/market integration related to the WiS items and modules (I mean not only avatar customization items here, but also everything related to WiS establishments building, set up and maintainence. And this is already a good intergation level with the EVE core mechanics. The AVA structures exploration prototype described by the CCP OP here could be a relevant PVE implementation (and this another area of EVE in need of strong attention). But then the same tools used for this can be extended to add PVP oriented AVA gameplay like infiltrating FW outposts or sabotage against POS. So here we have a new gameplay layer added to social, industry, market, PvE, PvP. That are all the major areas of EVE. I know is hard, yes it requires CCP to re-focus on EVE instead of external problem. And I don't see this happening. I think the trend is a progressive nerf and downgrade from sandbox MMORPG down to games like Star Conflict, WoT and such.
To be fair Star Conflict isn't a bad game, though at the moment it's nothing like Eve, come the end of the year though when they've developed their 'Open Sandbox' mode which is currently in development and we can have gate camps and ganking in that then Eve will find itself with yet another competitor, one that can be played for free! This is why I am keen that CCP step up to the plate and develop WIS to set itself apart from the competition. It's easier today to make fun space games than ever before and whilst eve is an astounding technical achivement given the time it was made in, there's a lot better, newer code out there with better rendering engines that can be picked up and worked with by students.
This is why CCP need to live up to their promise of making Eve into a living work of science fiction and the ultimate sci fi simulator. A virtual world doesn't mean much without virtual people. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
609
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 21:03:00 -
[3519] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:This is why CCP need to live up to their promise of making Eve into a living work of science fiction and the ultimate sci fi simulator. For real Eve players it already is.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 21:05:00 -
[3520] - Quote
Your right theres new games that will be coming out that will take users away because they offer what eve has been promising and has yet to deliver. Im not saying everyone will leave over night but 3000 users here and 3000 users there nitpicking at the user base will be there demise...
Look at World of warcraft... They went from 12 million to 8.9 million subs it didnt happen over night but games like Gw2 TSW Rift are pecking at there user base and dwindling it. |
|
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 21:06:00 -
[3521] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:This is why CCP need to live up to their promise of making Eve into a living work of science fiction and the ultimate sci fi simulator. For real Eve players it already is.
Just keep telling yourself that... Fyi i treat posts from people like you with about as much worth as the paper its written on.... None. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
609
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 21:09:00 -
[3522] - Quote
Why are roleplayers always so angry? EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 21:11:00 -
[3523] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Why are roleplayers always so angry?
Prob for the same reason that everything that comes from your mouth sounds like something from the special Olympics. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
610
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 21:27:00 -
[3524] - Quote
Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:Rhes wrote:Why are roleplayers always so angry? Prob for the same reason that everything that comes from your mouth sounds like something from the special Olympics. Again with the personal attacks...you should try making your point without them.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 21:40:00 -
[3525] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:Rhes wrote:Why are roleplayers always so angry? Prob for the same reason that everything that comes from your mouth sounds like something from the special Olympics. Again with the personal attacks...you should try making your point without them.
No cause honestly half the time reading your posts makes my head hurt.... Seriously if you think that the game is in no way shape broken and or needs new content.... You might wanna check your prescription... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
969
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 22:29:00 -
[3526] - Quote
Just for the record Rhes I am a real Eve Player.
I don't limit myself to any one type of Eve gameplay, I do a little bit of all of it.
I bet I do more with the sandbox than you.
Plus the only person in this thread who attacks people personally is you. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
308
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 23:08:00 -
[3527] - Quote
I just want to see fedos and exotic dancers in 3D.
Together. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1050
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 00:04:00 -
[3528] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Again with the personal attacks...you should try making your point without them.
Dude, nobody care to talk or making point sto you. Happens to trolls, when someone works that hard to become everybody's fool. They're only using you as s bot to automatically +1 WiS related threads.
|
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1050
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 00:15:00 -
[3529] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:To be fair Star Conflict isn't a bad game, though at the moment it's nothing like Eve, come the end of the year though when they've developed their 'Open Sandbox' mode which is currently in development and we can have gate camps and ganking in that then Eve will find itself with yet another competitor, one that can be played for free!
Oh yes, I didnt mean Star Conflict is a bad game. But is a different genre, is more like a WoD with spaceships. Not a persitent universe/sandbox. And I don't know about any sandbox mode, when I tried it few months ago there was only a battleground system.
EVE is a totally different game, more in depth and so on. But I see a nad trend to simplify EVE gameplay, removing whole parts of the game and enforce a unique gameplay standard. This is a downgrade for EVE, but is a viable option if they want to give up and reduce mantainence costs.
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
969
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 00:55:00 -
[3530] - Quote
Apologies I didn't mean to imply that, apologies for being unclear.
I too dislike the dumbing down, not to mention the changes that came with pegi 12.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
621
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 03:06:00 -
[3531] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Plus the only person in this thread who attacks people personally is you. lol It's too bad that ISD doesn't delete personal attacks from these threads since they are against the ToS. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
22
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 05:57:00 -
[3532] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Plus the only person in this thread who attacks people personally is you. lol It's too bad that ISD doesn't delete personal attacks from these threads since they are against the ToS.
Just like a goon hides behind TOS or better yet a pos.... <3 Serious qustion do u guys still know how to 1v1 or did blob ware fair dull your senses..
On that note you have not proved anything that justifies them not actually finishing what they started and implementing wis.. Honestly id rather have them work on that then the next revision of what ever FOTM ship they wanna reskin.. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1027
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 06:53:00 -
[3533] - Quote
Why do people still argue with Rhes?
The ones that need convincing is CCP .. And oh wait, they have already said they want to do more with avatars. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2969
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:35:00 -
[3534] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Why do people still argue with Rhes?
It's kind of addictive because you know that no matter how stupid your post, it can't be worse than Rhes' next reply. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
DSpite Culhach
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
259
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 10:47:00 -
[3535] - Quote
Without me checking 170 pages (a quick search didn't show hits), but if we leave our ship/pod to go EVA - and this is just from a technical point of view of course, as EVE is just a game - we are no longer attached to the little device that fries our brain and uploads us to get put in a clone, so would not death while doing an EVA mission mean perma death?
How is that handled in the mechanics/lore/etc? I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
978
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 11:33:00 -
[3536] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:Without me checking 170 pages (a quick search didn't show hits), but if we leave our ship/pod to go EVA - and this is just from a technical point of view of course, as EVE is just a game - we are no longer attached to the little device that fries our brain and uploads us to get put in a clone, so would not death while doing an EVA mission mean perma death?
How is that handled in the mechanics/lore/etc?
You can have soft backups taken at regular intervals according to templar one which do not kill you or as others have suggested you wake up in a new clone body that has the same sp that you had the last time you got podded. This might be devastating to a carebear or it might force people to do a quick death jump and get a new clone prior to EVA so that the clone imprint is up to date. Alternatively it could also be handled by having a special class of jump clone that keeps a snapshot of your sp when you jump so that all you lose is the sp you would have gained when completing the EVA should you happen to die out there.
either way I don't mind loss in a game if the rewards are worth it as indicated above EVA would open the way to new immersive game play which is why I support it. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
98
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:21:00 -
[3537] - Quote
Good God, Rhes if not for your trolling this thread would probably be dead by now or at least would not grow to 170 page monstrosity that it is now. I'm getting an impression that subconsciously you do want WiS.
DSpite Culhach wrote:Without me checking 170 pages (a quick search didn't show hits), but if we leave our ship/pod to go EVA - and this is just from a technical point of view of course, as EVE is just a game - we are no longer attached to the little device that fries our brain and uploads us to get put in a clone, so would not death while doing an EVA mission mean perma death?
How is that handled in the mechanics/lore/etc?
Additionally to what Khamez wrote, CCP pr guy said that they are looking at possibility to have different clones for different tasks. Like for example: for ship control stuff you would have capsuleer clones with overly developed brains full of implants, for dust you would have faceless clones with high muscle mass, etc. It could be kinda cool if they do that, infomorph all the way . |
|
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
365
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 02:02:00 -
[3538] - Quote
A moderation discussion post has been removed. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
|
Silent Rambo
State Protectorate Caldari State
106
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 17:10:00 -
[3539] - Quote
Wouldn't it be awesome if the countdown on the main page was for WIS?
Hey, a guy can dream. You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies? |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2983
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 17:45:00 -
[3540] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Wouldn't it be awesome if the countdown on the main page was for WIS?
Hey, a guy can dream.
I've always contested that the countdown is simply a countdown to mass player disappointment. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
|
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1053
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 19:35:00 -
[3541] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Wouldn't it be awesome if the countdown on the main page was for WIS?
Hey, a guy can dream.
I don't think so. Will be some announcement as "Dust finnally on PC" or something related to Valkyrie, or some new amazing game for iPad only. Anyway nothing relevant for EVE.
They wouldn't waste the WiS potential hype not announcing long before.
|
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
339
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 20:55:00 -
[3542] - Quote
yep and the timer comes at end long after DT so no IG related!!
need to explore sleeper station. RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
32
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 21:08:00 -
[3543] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Silent Rambo wrote:Wouldn't it be awesome if the countdown on the main page was for WIS?
Hey, a guy can dream. I don't think so. Will be some announcement as "Dust finnally on PC" or something related to Valkyrie, or some new amazing game for iPad only. Anyway nothing relevant for EVE. They wouldn't waste the WiS potential hype not announcing long before.
Honestly i would be ok with that.. i do think tho if they release dust for pc we should get 6 slots tho 3 for dust 3 for cap...The ability to transfer our dust chrs to the pc client would be a plus. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
989
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 21:33:00 -
[3544] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Silent Rambo wrote:Wouldn't it be awesome if the countdown on the main page was for WIS?
Hey, a guy can dream. I don't think so. Will be some announcement as "Dust finnally on PC" or something related to Valkyrie, or some new amazing game for iPad only. Anyway nothing relevant for EVE. They wouldn't waste the WiS potential hype not announcing long before.
Probably the highly unanticipated mobile phone apps. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Silent Rambo
State Protectorate Caldari State
108
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 21:55:00 -
[3545] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote: Probably the highly unanticipated mobile phone apps.
This is good realistic answer. I doubt Dust will not come to PC within the next 4 months, and I don't think CCP would announce its coming to PC on the EvE website either. I think it will be something related to fan-fest. You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies? |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
2985
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 22:06:00 -
[3546] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote: I think it will be something related to fan-fest.
There's the safe bet there. With fanfest coming up they're not going to announce anything ground-shaking, because they would want to do that at Fanfest. It's going to be boring.
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1031
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 09:21:00 -
[3547] - Quote
Yeah. I reckon it'll be that EVE: True stories graphic book I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Sointu Luonnotar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
108
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 13:18:00 -
[3548] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Yeah. I reckon it'll be that EVE: True stories graphic book
That and/or the EVE: Source. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1031
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 20:10:00 -
[3549] - Quote
CCP says they don't have the resources for WiS
Then spends money on a monument most players will never visit.
Thanks for the middle finger CCP I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Ventreel Echelon
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:01:00 -
[3550] - Quote
Look, all i want is to replace this CQ with Interstellar Strip Club. This is a legimate idea. |
|
Another Posting Alt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:49:00 -
[3551] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:CCP says they don't have the resources for WiS
Then spends money on a monument most players will never visit.
Thanks for the middle finger CCP
Yeah, that would have taken hundreds of man-hours away from important WiS development.
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
1035
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 22:59:00 -
[3552] - Quote
Another Posting Alt wrote:Flamespar wrote:CCP says they don't have the resources for WiS
Then spends money on a monument most players will never visit.
Thanks for the middle finger CCP Yeah, that would have taken hundreds of man-hours away from important WiS development.
It's always a surprise what promises CCP decides to keep and which ones it's hopes we forget.
Now please excuse me whilst I go enjoy my modular POS after doing some ring mining with the new direct X 11 effects, I think I may even drop by the 10 year vet station to catch up with mates in a player establishment and play with some custom paint jobs for my ship.
Oh wait...
But at least we got a monument .. right ... right? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
992
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:38:00 -
[3553] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Another Posting Alt wrote:Flamespar wrote:CCP says they don't have the resources for WiS
Then spends money on a monument most players will never visit.
Thanks for the middle finger CCP Yeah, that would have taken hundreds of man-hours away from important WiS development. It's always a surprise what promises CCP decides to keep and which ones it's hopes we forget. Now please excuse me whilst I go enjoy my modular POS after doing some ring mining with the new direct X 11 effects, I think I may even drop by the 10 year vet station to catch up with mates in a player establishment and play with some custom paint jobs for my ship. Oh wait... But at least we got a monument .. right ... right?
If you can't get to the monument you could always try out some atmospheric flight, oh wait... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
992
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:40:00 -
[3554] - Quote
Another Posting Alt wrote:Flamespar wrote:CCP says they don't have the resources for WiS
Then spends money on a monument most players will never visit.
Thanks for the middle finger CCP Yeah, that would have taken hundreds of man-hours away from important WiS development.
Agreed, it's budget that could have been spent on devs. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
100
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:55:00 -
[3555] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Another Posting Alt wrote:Flamespar wrote:CCP says they don't have the resources for WiS
Then spends money on a monument most players will never visit.
Thanks for the middle finger CCP Yeah, that would have taken hundreds of man-hours away from important WiS development. It's always a surprise what promises CCP decides to keep and which ones it's hopes we forget. Now please excuse me whilst I go enjoy my modular POS after doing some ring mining with the new direct X 11 effects, I think I may even drop by the 10 year vet station to catch up with mates in a player establishment and play with some custom paint jobs for my ship. Oh wait... But at least we got a monument .. right ... right?
one out of 6 that's not bad, don't rush it. |
Sointu Luonnotar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
108
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 00:26:00 -
[3556] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:CCP says they don't have the resources for WiS
Then spends money on a monument most players will never visit.
"Sorry guys we don't have time or the resources to work on WiS, and you don't even want us to work on that stuff right?" (Meanwhile, on the forums, 10,000+ posts combined in the the largest WiS/Avatar related threads)
"We also still won't be working seriously on World of Darkness even though we announced it like 7 years ago, instead we'll sacrifice its devs and / or make them work for our other projects all the time..."
"But hey, because like, at least a hundred people asked for it during the fanfest, here, have some VR gimmick game that takes 30 devs to work on it.. By the way we're going to give the boot for 15 people working on WoD just in a few months time because we can't afford them... I mean we're restructuring our teams. *ahem*"
"Also, to show just how broke we are we're building real life statues for y'all and launching some stuff in to low orbit. "
I mean come on. Can't you see how ridiculous this looks like, and should look like even without my poor attempts at humor? I have nothing againts the people working for CCP, mind you - except just the one whoever is in ultimate charge of these ridiculous decisions. |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
40
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 08:15:00 -
[3557] - Quote
Sointu Luonnotar wrote:Flamespar wrote:CCP says they don't have the resources for WiS
Then spends money on a monument most players will never visit. "Sorry guys we don't have time or the resources to work on WiS, and you don't even want us to work on that stuff right?" (Meanwhile, on the forums, 10,000+ posts combined in the the largest WiS/Avatar related threads) "We also still won't be working seriously on World of Darkness even though we announced it like 7 years ago, instead we'll sacrifice its devs and / or make them work for our other projects all the time..." "But hey, because like, at least a hundred people asked for it during the fanfest, here, have some VR gimmick game that takes 30 devs to work on it.. By the way we're going to give the boot for 15 people working on WoD just in a few months time because we can't afford them... I mean we're restructuring our teams. *ahem*" "Also, to show just how broke we are we're building real life statues for y'all and launching some stuff in to low orbit. " I mean come on. Can't you see how ridiculous this looks like, and should look like even without my poor attempts at humor? I have nothing againts the people working for CCP, mind you - except just the one whoever is in ultimate charge of these ridiculous decisions.
Sad part is even tho it looks really nice im so in agreement with u... I feel like they just gave every eve player the middle finger... |
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
474
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 08:33:00 -
[3558] - Quote
Seras Victoria Egivand wrote: Sad part is even tho it looks really nice im so in agreement with u... I feel like they just gave every eve player the middle finger...
I really tried resisting but it's stronger than me. :(
.....
They gave everyone the finger? I don't feel anything. :( EVE ONLINE: The universe is ours!- Join the Epic Boo Bees! (RP,PvE/PvP,wardecs,new players!)You are at it from day 0! |
Your Dad Naked
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 09:00:00 -
[3559] - Quote
Issue is communication with the community. It seems CCP think the CSM and forum regulars represent the general opinion. It's just not true.
Most players would adore walking in stations. Hanging at the bar with corp mates. Most people want it more than ANY deployable.
Until CCP finds a way to properly communicate with the playerbase, they'll never figure this out. They'll keep thinking the elitists on EVE-O forums represent all of us. |
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
474
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 09:02:00 -
[3560] - Quote
Your Dad Naked wrote:Issue is communication with the community. It seems CCP think the CSM and forum regulars represent the general opinion. It's just not true.
Most players would adore walking in stations. Hanging at the bar with corp mates. Most people want it more than ANY deployable.
Until CCP finds a way to properly communicate with the playerbase, they'll never figure this out. They'll keep thinking the elitists on EVE-O forums represent all of us. Errr...... absolutely not. EVE ONLINE: The universe is ours!- Join the Epic Boo Bees! (RP,PvE/PvP,wardecs,new players!)You are at it from day 0! |
|
Elizabeth Brown
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
49
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 09:30:00 -
[3561] - Quote
The monument is more or less irrelevant in this discussion. That statue would probably have cost around -ú5000, which might pay a developer for two months but you wouldn't see much done in that time. As for the work put into it by CCP, I image it was a project set to one person and wouldn't have taken all their time at that. Any attempt to make it seem those resources could be spent on Avatar content, is weak at best and whiny at worst.
The countdown though was a classic case of CCP not understanding their playerbase, and dashing people's hopes as usual. They were stupid to think people wouldn't expect more, even with the countdown on the community page. |
Dior Rellik
NERFSQUAD
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 10:37:00 -
[3562] - Quote
Hey maybe we should start a whole new thread dedicated to just monuments.
I think CCP should build a monument of The Mittani next to there head quarters. Purely because he virtually runs eve and has helped made it was it is today giving lots of new content, a place for noobs to quickly get into null stuff.
Just a thought being as CCP likes to waste money. |
DSpite Culhach
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
260
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 10:37:00 -
[3563] - Quote
Well, if CCP already has all the assets from Dust514, it does not seem like too much of a longshot to transfer those assets to a WiS/EVA system ... I'm just saying that some groundwork is already in place for some integration, and it might not be THAT monumental level of work as starting a project from scratch.
Then again, I'm just guessing here.
As far as WiS, do people actually have any idea what they would want to use it for? I would have thought it would slow work down, not speed it up. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
Sointu Luonnotar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
110
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 13:01:00 -
[3564] - Quote
Elizabeth Brown wrote:The monument is more or less irrelevant in this discussion.
No it's not. In the grand scheme of things it's yeat another example of CCP claiming they can't do something because no resources / no time / not allowed because reasons. Yet they splurge on things like this. Nevermind if it were "cheap" - and looking at the size of that thing (five meters tall), materials (stainless steel, granite, aluminum), plus the carvings, etc, your $5,000 is a sore underestimate, $30,000-$50,000 is more realistic for material value alone, and still probably undervalued considering all other costs, even if they got the place to slap it on for free.
But to return back on track, it's just another example in a long line of examples of whoever decides these things making dumb decisions. "CCP shouldn't keep all eggs in one basket." But lo and behold, they practically don't seem to care about their other intellectual property that has nothing do with EVE - World of Darkness. Like I said, one of the worst examples being that they put 30 people wokring on EVE: Valkyrie because, apparently, a number of people going to fanfest thought it was cool. Of course they would think it was cool for the couple of days they spend at the fanfest - but really, I haven't even tried Oculus Rift and the "wow factor" has worn off of me. I'd be damn surprised if it doesn't flop, because people will get tired of it in a matter of weeks, just like how 3D television hasn't really taken off because while it is cool, it is only cool the first couple of times.
Getting a little sidelined here... So, they devoted 30 people for Valkyrie. 4 months later they announce they're laying off people from CCP Atlanta. On top of the previous layoffs that affected Atlanta the worst last time. So explain to me how they can't afford to keep 15 people working on a game that would gather a whole different gamerbase than EVE, yet dedicate 30 people to what is, frankly, just a gimmick and probably will not make back even the 30 dev's salaries, and that is just at it's core part of the same universe and largely interesting only for people who already play and know what EVE is. The people they fired, by the way, were level designers and various other undefined producers and designers. So either WoD is already almost done (yet, they really shouldn't be firing level designers if they plan on expanding the game), or they had to cut down expenses because of Valkyrie and they for some god forsaken reason cut them from the only other game project that could gather them a large number of completely new players - say, some of the people abandoning WoW in droves, or long-time WoD / White Wolf fans - instead of die-hard EVE fans.
What I've read from ex-employees and general workplace reviews - obviously these are somewhat biased accounts, but there has to be a grain of truth in there since just about all of them complain about poor over-meddling management that doesn't seem to listen to no one, not the devs or the customers. The reason that Crucible and Inferno were the largest fixing patches in EVE was because the devs were given almost free reign to work on what they wanted. Faction Warfare was completely abandoned after implementation because the lead game designer hated it and would not let devs work on it despite the pleas of the playerbase. Four years of no iteration on it because of one person.
So yeah, what I'm getting at is, that something is really wrong with the way CCP manages its projects and resource allocation. Another example would be all the prototyping they do that never seems to be good enough to use - again there was a rather complete if buggy WiS Prototybe back in 2008. That got scrapped because reasons. So that was a bunch of dev time down the drain, most likely because of at most a couple of people who simply say "jump" and everyone else in the company have to ask "how high?" These people are the ones who should get fired, before they kill the company - and I*m surprised they haven't yet, despite apparently trying really hard. |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:26:00 -
[3565] - Quote
Sointu Luonnotar wrote:Elizabeth Brown wrote:The monument is more or less irrelevant in this discussion. No it's not. In the grand scheme of things it's yeat another example of CCP claiming they can't do something because no resources / no time / not allowed because reasons. Yet they splurge on things like this. Nevermind if it were "cheap" - and looking at the size of that thing (five meters tall), materials (stainless steel, granite, aluminum), plus the carvings, etc, your $5,000 is a sore underestimate, $30,000-$50,000 is more realistic for material value alone, and still probably undervalued considering all other costs, even if they got the place to slap it on for free. But to return back on track, it's just another example in a long line of examples of whoever decides these things making dumb decisions. "CCP shouldn't keep all eggs in one basket." But lo and behold, they practically don't seem to care about their other intellectual property that has nothing do with EVE - World of Darkness. Like I said, one of the worst examples being that they put 30 people wokring on EVE: Valkyrie because, apparently, a number of people going to fanfest thought it was cool. Of course they would think it was cool for the couple of days they spend at the fanfest - but really, I haven't even tried Oculus Rift and the "wow factor" has worn off of me. I'd be damn surprised if it doesn't flop, because people will get tired of it in a matter of weeks, just like how 3D television hasn't really taken off because while it is cool, it is only cool the first couple of times. Getting a little sidelined here... So, they devoted 30 people for Valkyrie. 4 months later they announce they're laying off people from CCP Atlanta. On top of the previous layoffs that affected Atlanta the worst last time. So explain to me how they can't afford to keep 15 people working on a game that would gather a whole different gamerbase than EVE, yet dedicate 30 people to what is, frankly, just a gimmick and probably will not make back even the 30 dev's salaries, and that is just at it's core part of the same universe and largely interesting only for people who already play and know what EVE is. The people they fired, by the way, were level designers and various other undefined producers and designers. So either WoD is already almost done (yet, they really shouldn't be firing level designers if they plan on expanding the game), or they had to cut down expenses because of Valkyrie and they for some god forsaken reason cut them from the only other game project that could gather them a large number of completely new players - say, some of the people abandoning WoW in droves, or long-time WoD / White Wolf fans - instead of die-hard EVE fans. What I've read from ex-employees and general workplace reviews - obviously these are somewhat biased accounts, but there has to be a grain of truth in there since just about all of them complain about poor over-meddling management that doesn't seem to listen to no one, not the devs or the customers. The reason that Crucible and Inferno were the largest fixing patches in EVE was because the devs were given almost free reign to work on what they wanted. Faction Warfare was completely abandoned after implementation because the lead game designer hated it and would not let devs work on it despite the pleas of the playerbase. Four years of no iteration on it because of one person. So yeah, what I'm getting at is, that something is really wrong with the way CCP manages its projects and resource allocation. Another example would be all the prototyping they do that never seems to be good enough to use - again there was a rather complete if buggy WiS Prototybe back in 2008. That got scrapped because reasons. So that was a bunch of dev time down the drain, most likely because of at most a couple of people who simply say "jump" and everyone else in the company have to ask "how high?" These people are the ones who should get fired, before they kill the company - and I*m surprised they haven't yet, despite apparently trying really hard.
so im not the only one that looks at glassdoor and other employment sites to see how working for companies goes.. :P Spot on with what you said. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
402
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 18:50:00 -
[3566] - Quote
+1 completely agree , very sharp point of view
CCP suits, take a good hard look at that post and and chill. Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Silent Rambo
State Protectorate Caldari State
116
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 19:16:00 -
[3567] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: It's always a surprise what promises CCP decides to keep and which ones it's hopes we forget.
Now please excuse me whilst I go enjoy my modular POS after doing some ring mining with the new direct X 11 effects, I think I may even drop by the 10 year vet station to catch up with mates in a player establishment and play with some custom paint jobs for my ship.
Oh wait...
But at least we got a monument .. right ... right?
There are so many awesome idea that they could do and have even put work into and then just ******* scrap. It wears on my patience to see a game with infinite potential be run like this. They don't want to touch the spaghetti code because that's totally going to magically change later. Good foresight there. Why make the system better when you could procrastinate and get nothing done? A project gets 80% done? Scrap the whole damn thing, why iterate on something when you can just start from scratch. You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies? |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
42
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 19:23:00 -
[3568] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Flamespar wrote: It's always a surprise what promises CCP decides to keep and which ones it's hopes we forget.
Now please excuse me whilst I go enjoy my modular POS after doing some ring mining with the new direct X 11 effects, I think I may even drop by the 10 year vet station to catch up with mates in a player establishment and play with some custom paint jobs for my ship.
Oh wait...
But at least we got a monument .. right ... right?
There are so many awesome idea that they could do and have even put work into and then just ******* scrap. It wears on my patience to see a game with infinite potential be run like this. They don't want to touch the spaghetti code because that's totally going to magically change later. Good foresight there. Why make the system better when you could procrastinate and get nothing done? A project gets 80% done? Scrap the whole damn thing, why iterate on something when you can just start from scratch.
Up untel star citizen gets released and a few other games they have 0 competition in the market.. Wonder how there going to fair when they actually have to be viable again... Not comparing EvE to wow but they went though the same issues Ya Rift might not have been a wow killer but GW2 Rift TSW and other mmos picked away at there user base because they cant seem to evolve.. Same principle applies. |
Silent Rambo
State Protectorate Caldari State
116
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 19:38:00 -
[3569] - Quote
Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:
Up untel star citizen gets released and a few other games they have 0 competition in the market.. Wonder how there going to fair when they actually have to be viable again... Not comparing EvE to wow but they went though the same issues Ya Rift might not have been a wow killer but GW2 Rift TSW and other mmos picked away at there user base because they cant seem to evolve.. Same principle applies.
Im honestly not afraid of star citizen. It isn't even out yet and people have thrown money at it, it could be terrible in practice. Its selling an idea right now, and ideas vs. reality can be very different. I agree though if somehow the actual implement all the things they talk about then EvE will have some decently stiff competition, at least for highsecers moving away from EvE. Id love to see PLEX prices when all the people that actual sell them leave the game lol. You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies? |
Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
42
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 19:47:00 -
[3570] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:
Up untel star citizen gets released and a few other games they have 0 competition in the market.. Wonder how there going to fair when they actually have to be viable again... Not comparing EvE to wow but they went though the same issues Ya Rift might not have been a wow killer but GW2 Rift TSW and other mmos picked away at there user base because they cant seem to evolve.. Same principle applies.
Im honestly not afraid of star citizen. It isn't even out yet and people have thrown money at it, it could be terrible in practice. Its selling an idea right now, and ideas vs. reality can be very different. I agree though if somehow the actual implement all the things they talk about then EvE will have some decently stiff competition, at least for highsecers moving away from EvE. Id love to see PLEX prices when all the people that actual sell them leave the game lol.
Hence why i said until... They could bomb it we dono Pre release and proto type are different then production code. If they do pull it off your right... Funny part is people give us crap about wanting wis or say we dont know what eve is about or go play that game. In truth it would be much easier to do that then us trying to reason or convince ccp to implement features and fix game mechanics we want.. We do try to reason and make post's about it trying to reason with them and are vocal about it because we do care.... If we didn't we would just quietly leave. |
|
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
100
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 21:23:00 -
[3571] - Quote
Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:Funny part is people give us crap about wanting wis or say we dont know what eve is about or go play that game. In truth it would be much easier to do that then us trying to reason or convince ccp to implement features and fix game mechanics we want.. We do try to reason and make post's about it trying to reason with them and are vocal about it because we do care.... If we didn't we would just quietly leave. And what kind of features and game mechanics do "we" want exactly? |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1048
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 21:32:00 -
[3572] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:Funny part is people give us crap about wanting wis or say we dont know what eve is about or go play that game. In truth it would be much easier to do that then us trying to reason or convince ccp to implement features and fix game mechanics we want.. We do try to reason and make post's about it trying to reason with them and are vocal about it because we do care.... If we didn't we would just quietly leave. And what kind of features and game mechanics do "we" want exactly?
Modular POS with customisable interiors.
Dangerous derelicts to explore.
These would he make me very happy. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1058
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 22:39:00 -
[3573] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:And what kind of features and game mechanics do "we" want exactly?
Modular POS with customisable interiors. Dangerous derelicts to explore. FW AVA missions POS sabotage/stealing/hacking in hostile POS/POCOS Gambling games WiS/AVA items all craftable and fully part of the EVE production system.
|
Tysun Kane
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 22:57:00 -
[3574] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:And what kind of features and game mechanics do "we" want exactly? Modular POS with customisable interiors. Dangerous derelicts to explore. FW AVA missions POS sabotage/stealing/hacking in hostile POS/POCOS Gambling games WiS/AVA items all craftable and fully part of the EVE production system.
+1 |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
344
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 23:26:00 -
[3575] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it.
I'm all in favor of this. I know game play > realism and blah blah blah, but something that really stands out to me (in a bad way) is when I'm in some building or spaceship or whatever setting and going through the level thinking "This layout makes no damn sense." DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
994
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 00:03:00 -
[3576] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:And what kind of features and game mechanics do "we" want exactly?
Modular POS with customisable interiors. Dangerous derelicts to explore. FW AVA missions POS sabotage/stealing/hacking in hostile POS/POCOS Gambling games WiS/AVA items all craftable and fully part of the EVE production system. Mining based on large roids of mixed ores that you have scan down. A version of mining that uses a modified hacking mini game to get the best yield. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
100
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 17:58:00 -
[3577] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:And what kind of features and game mechanics do "we" want exactly? Modular POS with customisable interiors. Dangerous derelicts to explore. FW AVA missions POS sabotage/stealing/hacking in hostile POS/POCOS Gambling games WiS/AVA items all craftable and fully part of the EVE production system. Good, your post should be stickyed or something.
Few more questions:
Are we talking about CQ customisable: like this couch should be here or there or POS/POCOS customisable: like layout of security floors, production floors, storage floors etc.? What is AVA? By saying "fully part of the EVE production system" you mean craftable and destructible?
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Modular POS with customisable interiors. Dangerous derelicts to explore. FW AVA missions POS sabotage/stealing/hacking in hostile POS/POCOS Gambling games WiS/AVA items all craftable and fully part of the EVE production system. Mining based on large roids of mixed ores that you have scan down. A version of mining that uses a modified hacking mini game to get the best yield. Yes, but I was asking about WiS related things only. And actually we had this "mining based on large roids of mixed ores that you have to scan down" before Odyssey happened. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1003
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 01:05:00 -
[3578] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Sura Sadiva wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:And what kind of features and game mechanics do "we" want exactly? Modular POS with customisable interiors. Dangerous derelicts to explore. FW AVA missions POS sabotage/stealing/hacking in hostile POS/POCOS Gambling games WiS/AVA items all craftable and fully part of the EVE production system. Good, your post should be stickyed or something. Few more questions: Are we talking about CQ customisable: like this couch should be here or there or POS/POCOS customisable: like layout of security floors, production floors, storage floors etc.? What is AVA? By saying "fully part of the EVE production system" you mean craftable and destructible? Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Modular POS with customisable interiors. Dangerous derelicts to explore. FW AVA missions POS sabotage/stealing/hacking in hostile POS/POCOS Gambling games WiS/AVA items all craftable and fully part of the EVE production system. Mining based on large roids of mixed ores that you have scan down. A version of mining that uses a modified hacking mini game to get the best yield. Yes, but I was asking about WiS related things only. And actually we had this "mining based on large roids of mixed ores that you have to scan down" before Odyssey happened.
yes, but we haven't seen it materialising in the game yet, much like ring mining. As for avatar content you could always walk about on the asteroid and find the best place to plant charges, but my main point was that people who support avatar content also want to see improvements to the flying in space part of the game. As a virtual citizen of new eden I want to see game play expand in all directions. Eve is actually all about people, which is why it needs avatar game play in order to represent those people. People are not spaceships, spaceships are just a tool for the character to use. Clearly ships are important but how can they be more important than the people flying them? Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1054
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 05:54:00 -
[3579] - Quote
That's something that incarna was meant to help address. CCP wants players to see ships as tools, rather than as themselves, so that they will be less risk adverse. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
375
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 21:18:00 -
[3580] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:That's something that incarna was meant to help address. CCP wants players to see ships as tools, rather than as themselves, so that they will be less risk adverse.
Interestingly though, on the far other end, DUST mercenaries see their clones as mere tools, rather than as themselves. Incarna design EVE side heavily personalizes your clone, to the level that you won't see your clone as just a tool. Which... it is. |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1042
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 22:42:00 -
[3581] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Flamespar wrote:That's something that incarna was meant to help address. CCP wants players to see ships as tools, rather than as themselves, so that they will be less risk adverse. Interestingly though, on the far other end, DUST mercenaries see their clones as mere tools, rather than as themselves. Incarna design EVE side heavily personalizes your clone, to the level that you won't see your clone as just a tool. Which... it is.
dust is not fully developed yet, and dust clones don't have faces, all they can pick is a combat frame/body suit which naturally enough makes it easier to disassociate your clone from you the player/character. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
376
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 22:54:00 -
[3582] - Quote
I'd love DUST to get the Carbon character creator. Sadly, it'd murder the PS3 quite violently.
But the interesting notion is that EVE players as well, really should view their clones are just tools. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1056
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 05:27:00 -
[3583] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:I'd love DUST to get the Carbon character creator. Sadly, it'd murder the PS3 quite violently.
But the interesting notion is that EVE players as well, really should view their clones are just tools.
We'll they could use it to allow players to do their own Portraits at least.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1751
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 17:27:00 -
[3584] - Quote
WoD development is being re-animated. There is hope to see WiS before 2030 \o/ Maybe even before 2020 - but that would be too much to wish... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
689
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 17:29:00 -
[3585] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:WoD development is being re-animated. There is hope to see WiS before 2030 \o/ Maybe even before 2020 - but that would be too much to wish... LOL
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Teinyhr
Venlith Taal
371
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 17:35:00 -
[3586] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:But the interesting notion is that EVE players as well, really should view their clones are just tools.
The human body in general is "just a tool", irregardless if you are a Dust merc, Pod pilot or a baseliner, if you want to get all technical about it. I don't see capsuleer clones as mere tools, but I'm not saying that other pilots aren't allowed to view theirs as such. |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
3065
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 18:01:00 -
[3587] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:WoD development is being re-animated. There is hope to see WiS before 2030 \o/ Maybe even before 2020 - but that would be too much to wish...
Truth is we know very little of how it's development is going. They NDAed the gameplay footage shown at the last fanfest, and the year before that all we saw were procedurally generated landscapes.
So really, the only people who have the slightest idea of how far along it is are CCP, and the people who went to the presentation (less than 100 people) at the last fanfest. Hopefully we will get to see some actual game play footage this year without having to physically travel to Iceland. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
378
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 18:27:00 -
[3588] - Quote
WoD development does not mean WiS progress. As they specified the engines now differed. Obviously the art differs, and even DUST development with avatar spaces in New Eden hasn't actually led to WiS progress. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1060
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 01:52:00 -
[3589] - Quote
I find it interesting that CCP continue to provide additional clothing items with limited editions etc.
They wouldn't be doing that if it didn't make it more likely for players to part with their money. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
997
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 02:25:00 -
[3590] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:WoD development does not mean WiS progress. As they specified the engines now differed. Obviously the art differs, and even DUST development with avatar spaces in New Eden hasn't actually led to WiS progress.
"Differed," to the extent that they forked CARBON. It's still CARBON, and the changes they make can be adapted right back into the version of CARBON under EVE; or, if CCP does Incarna as a separate client, it can run on a different version of CARBON as well.
There's already been a fair amount of cross-pollination between the EVE and WoD teams. There's no reason to think that would suddenly end. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
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Flamespar
Woof Club
1061
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 03:00:00 -
[3591] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Crasniya wrote:WoD development does not mean WiS progress. As they specified the engines now differed. Obviously the art differs, and even DUST development with avatar spaces in New Eden hasn't actually led to WiS progress. "Differed," to the extent that they forked CARBON. It's still CARBON, and the changes they make can be adapted right back into the version of CARBON under EVE; or, if CCP does Incarna as a separate client, it can run on a different version of CARBON as well. There's already been a fair amount of cross-pollination between the EVE and WoD teams. There's no reason to think that would suddenly end.
Not to mention that all the tools that they are creating to allow them to quickly build the world WoD could potentially be used to build stuff for WiS.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1051
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 18:02:00 -
[3592] - Quote
The way I see it, there was a plan to use dual/forked development for both EVE and WOD, however that all fell apart in the wake of the Nex/Greed is good riots.
CCP are still trying to fulfil the original plan though can only do so with one half of the fork/not both after promising the FIS only crowd that Avatar development would stop. Hence we see delays for WOD and no development at all (other than the bare minimum they can get away with) for Eve.
CCP Seagul's plan/vision for player made stargates is just filler designed to keep the eve playerbase happy whilst the WOD fork is underway, as is the ship re-balancing and player made star-gates.
Remember they had to abandon the Eve fork of the plan after considerable amounts of money/dev time and resources were spent on it. That type of decision cannot be taken lightly. Given that they've just lost the benefit of all of the afore mentioned dev time, money and resources what choice did they have but to abandon all Eve development until the original plan for Wod/Eve (now just a WOD plan) is completed? Remember they are contractually obliged to produce WOD.
Rebalancing and POS/SOV improvements could easily be handled in a single expansion with the resources available to CCP. 'm old enough to remember in this game when patches/expansions were world changing events that affected every aspect of life in New Eden. That isn't the case anymore.
Also if we can have wormholes in a single expansion why can't we have player made star-gates on the same timescale? I fail to see why there has to be a five year plan to get all of this done. Unless of course that WOD development is sucking away all of the resources in secret, not to mention dust and Valkyrie.
I can confidently predict that on successful delivery of WOD CCP will then turn it's attention back to avatars as they never ever give up on any long term visions or plans. That's why I say that avatar gameplay in eve is imevitable, we've just got to be patient.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1061
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 04:46:00 -
[3593] - Quote
Call me selfish. But I'd rather they implement avatar gameplay before WoD arrives.
Was walking in my quarters today. CCP certainly managed to create some impressive avatar technology. Still the best in the business in my opinion, even despite the severely limited gameplay. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
970
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 11:09:00 -
[3594] - Quote
Any idea what new clothing stuff they will bundle with EVE Source? Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Seras Victoria Egivand
United Star Alliance UNITED STAR FEDERATION
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 02:49:00 -
[3595] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Call me selfish. But I'd rather they implement avatar gameplay before WoD arrives.
Was walking in my quarters today. CCP certainly managed to create some impressive avatar technology. Still the best in the business in my opinion, even despite the severely limited gameplay.
Doubt you will see any game or wis anytime soon... CCP no offence develops like a kid with ADD they only work on it tell something else shinny comes along.. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
741
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 03:08:00 -
[3596] - Quote
Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:Doubt you will see any game or wis anytime soon... CCP no offence develops like a kid with ADD they only work on it tell something else shinny comes along.. That's how they used to be. Ever since they almost blew up the game with Incarna CCP has been really good about sticking to their promise to focus on spaceship content. I have to admit that after the Summer of Rage I didn't believe that they would keep their word but I'm glad they did and that they give every indication of continuing to do so.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Hal Morsh
The Witch's Hammer
23
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 04:55:00 -
[3597] - Quote
I think people just scared CCP out of trying to make walking in station content I enjoy a good session of mining. |
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
342
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 12:25:00 -
[3598] - Quote
they don't want new players , and spreadsheet is so fun !! RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
382
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 15:12:00 -
[3599] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:I think people just scared CCP out of trying to make walking in station content
They're scared of making ANY EVE content. What Rhes doesn't realize, is that the Summer of Rage killed EVE development. Which is why we have falling subscriptions and no content in the last four expansions that a new player will even see, much less care about. Players sent the message loud and clear "We don't like change. We expect our game to never change." |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
3099
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 17:48:00 -
[3600] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:I think people just scared CCP out of trying to make walking in station content They're scared of making ANY EVE content. What Rhes doesn't realize, is that the Summer of Rage killed EVE development. Which is why we have falling subscriptions and no content in the last four expansions that a new player will even see, much less care about. Players sent the message loud and clear "We don't like change. We expect our game to never change."
Although I am pro-Avatar development, I can't help but correct this. We don't know anything about number of subs (we never have really), and CCP haven't released any official figures in a long time. Active player numbers however, seem to be doing fine.
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Don't get me wrong. That graph would look much better if CCP hadn't split their resources on so many terrible project ideas. We could have had expansions just like the ones we have had plus Avatar content development. C'est la vie. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
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Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
999
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 18:30:00 -
[3601] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Don't get me wrong. That graph would look much better if CCP hadn't split their resources on so many terrible project ideas. We could have had expansions just like the ones we have had plus Avatar content development. C'est la vie.
Just to continue the contrarian tone: After you've been winded by a punch to the gut from the consumers of your one single product, isn't it entirely reasonable to redouble your efforts to not rely on that one single product for your livelihood? Why do you think CCP took the unprecedented step of looking for outside financing for DUST514?
You can talk "right" and "wrong" all day, but the Summer of RAEG was the summer that CCP realized that EVE was not a safe, reliable income stream. Of course they took measures to deal with that; people generally like to eat with roofs over their heads, even after they've made stupid mistakes. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
3099
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 18:39:00 -
[3602] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Arduemont wrote:Don't get me wrong. That graph would look much better if CCP hadn't split their resources on so many terrible project ideas. We could have had expansions just like the ones we have had plus Avatar content development. C'est la vie. Just to continue the contrarian tone: After you've been winded by a punch to the gut from the consumers of your one single product, isn't it entirely reasonable to redouble your efforts to not rely on that one single product for your livelihood? Why do you think CCP took the unprecedented step of looking for outside financing for DUST514? You can talk "right" and "wrong" all day, but the Summer of RAEG was the summer that CCP realized that EVE was not a safe, reliable income stream. Of course they took measures to deal with that; people generally like to eat with roofs over their heads, even after they've made stupid mistakes.
I was not trying to imply that CCP should have 'no' other projects. That would be daft. But, CCP are currently running four projects and a mobile app (Eve, Dust, WoD, Valkyrie and the app). And CCP had openly voiced concerns that Dust wasn't pulling it's weight. Most big games companies (We're talking EA, Bioware, Blizzard etc) run only one (or occasionally two) unfinished projects at once and if one of their games flops they drop it and don't have to worry about maintenance costs.
CCP on the other hand are running 1 finished product that pulls it's weight (Eve), one project that might even be running at a loss but with no intention of dropping it (Dust) and three other projects. All of those projects rely on the income of one single game. There are literally no other successful games companies stupid enough to try this. If CCP hadn't have been greedy and added one project at a time, imagine how much more development resources they would have available for each game if they were only running two projects. Dust would have been twice the game it was, and Eve would be a completely different beast. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
135
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 22:28:00 -
[3603] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:[quote=Dersen Lowery] CCP on the other hand are running 1 finished product that pulls it's weight (Eve), one project that might even be running at a loss but with no intention of dropping it (Dust) and three other projects.
I do not think even CCP is kidding itself by thinking dust is a finished product. On top of that there is really no marketing for it either so not sure whats going on there.
I basicly resub here to say hey to old friends every now and then. I mostly play dust as far as new eden goes and it will be a year or so before they flesh out most of what they said their goals were in fanfest if they do not back out of that planning too. I am starting to think PVE in Dust is going the way of to Dodo like WIS did in Eve.
I really wish CCP would make WIS a priority. Once S.C. hits I am not sure what I will do. I know its not the scale of Eve but with time it will have a lot of the space sim that was once a goal of Eve.
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Flamespar
Woof Club
1065
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 22:45:00 -
[3604] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:Arduemont wrote:[quote=Dersen Lowery] CCP on the other hand are running 1 finished product that pulls it's weight (Eve), one project that might even be running at a loss but with no intention of dropping it (Dust) and three other projects. I do not think even CCP is kidding itself by thinking dust is a finished product. On top of that there is really no marketing for it either so not sure whats going on there. I basicly resub here to say hey to old friends every now and then. I mostly play dust as far as new eden goes and it will be a year or so before they flesh out most of what they said their goals were in fanfest if they do not back out of that planning too. I am starting to think PVE in Dust is going the way of to Dodo like WIS did in Eve. I really wish CCP would make WIS a priority. Once S.C. hits I am not sure what I will do. I know its not the scale of Eve but with time it will have a lot of the space sim that was once a goal of Eve.
My suspicion with Dust is that they will do a marketing push once they have fixed some of the glaring issues with the Graeme, such as the complete lack of a new player experience, no PVE, planetary conquest being broken. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1000
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 22:46:00 -
[3605] - Quote
Shepard Book wrote:Arduemont wrote: CCP on the other hand are running 1 finished product that pulls it's weight (Eve), one project that might even be running at a loss but with no intention of dropping it (Dust) and three other projects.
I do not think even CCP is kidding itself by thinking dust is a finished product. On top of that there is really no marketing for it either so not sure whats going on there.
First, let me note Arduemont's corrections to my post. Thanks!
Those facts acknowledged, CCP does not appear to think that DUST is a finished product, given the way they're still fussing with very basic mechanics. They haven't even introduced variants of each piece of equipment for each faction yet.
You'll know when they think it's finished when it gets a huge marketing campaign, possibly coincident with an announcement that it will be on the PS4--there's no reason for them to move an unfinished game there (or to the PC, or anywhere beside the PS3), is there?
Shepard Book wrote:I really wish CCP would make WIS a priority. Once S.C. hits I am not sure what I will do. I know its not the scale of Eve but with time it will have a lot of the space sim that was once a goal of Eve.
That still is the goal. CCP has just figured out that it can't get there as quickly or as easily as they hoped they could. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1071
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 22:47:00 -
[3606] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:You can talk "right" and "wrong" all day, but the Summer of RAEG was the summer that CCP realized that EVE was not a safe, reliable income stream. Of course they took measures to deal with that; people generally like to eat with roofs over their heads, even after they've made stupid mistakes.
But CCP was already working on that before the summer rage. At least from 2009, and if I remember correctly they were already working on WoD. CCP started to divert reources from EVE to other external projects just after Apocrhypa, in their highest peak.
The summer rage itself was nothing special, just only a big arranged forum flame as happens periodically. Ant there was everything in it: people against the NEX store, people complaining cause monochle cost was too high, people upset for WiS not delivered as expected.
The only difference is that CCP used that as an excuse to disengage from any EVE serious develompents to focus on Dust (in the meantime they got the agreement with Sony) on and to lay-off part of their employees.
All things that was going to happens anyway.
So, was mostly an inside company operation. Hell, CCP also market it in their slide-shows
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1060
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 22:54:00 -
[3607] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:You can talk "right" and "wrong" all day, but the Summer of RAEG was the summer that CCP realized that EVE was not a safe, reliable income stream. Of course they took measures to deal with that; people generally like to eat with roofs over their heads, even after they've made stupid mistakes. But CCP was already working on that before the summer rage. At least from 2009, and if I remember correctly they were already working on WoD. CCP started to divert reources from EVE to other external projects just after Apocrhypa, in their highest peak. The summer rage itself was nothing special, just only a big arranged forum flame as happens periodically. Ant there was everything in it: people against the NEX store, people complaining cause monochle cost was too high, people upset for WiS not delivered as expected. The only difference is that CCP used that as an excuse to disengage from any EVE serious develompents to focus on Dust (in the meantime they got the agreement with Sony) on and to lay-off part of their employees. All things that was going to happens anyway. So, was mostly an inside company operation. Hell, CCP also market it in their slide-shows
I agree with that, the eve plan was abandoned and replaced with ship balancing for the foreseeable future, all other plans for wod, dust etc continued unchanged.
I've posted before that the people who hijacked the summer of rage to mean fis only content have actually killed their own game. Fis has not been enhanced by modules like the ESS. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1066
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 23:39:00 -
[3608] - Quote
Hopefully they'll announce something at Fanfest.
They can't deny that there is support for meaningful avatar gameplay, this thread is over a year and a half old. Even Seagull's "vision" doesn't seem to prompt the same amount of discussion. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1067
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 23:47:00 -
[3609] - Quote
Thought you might be interested in this
Here is a pic of me exploring a derelict station I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1060
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 23:49:00 -
[3610] - Quote
Seagull's vision is yet to resonate with the majority of the player base as they see player made star gates as expensive and elitist or a path to goon only space.
as such it disenfranchises other players that have no interest in sov or life in null sec as it stands today.
Plus she did such a good job on exploration that lots of players don't trust her to deliver as they think that she wants eve to be on easy mode for noobs.
She means well but I personally don't see how her vision can positively add to the legend that is eve online, but I may be misinformed or lacking understanding on this. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1060
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 23:50:00 -
[3611] - Quote
Awesome, great work man. I wish I had your photo shop skills. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1069
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 04:38:00 -
[3612] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Awesome, great work man. I wish I had your photo shop skills.
And here is what I discovered I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Commissar Kate
Team Evil
47058
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 04:52:00 -
[3613] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I find it interesting that CCP continue to provide additional clothing items with limited editions etc.
They wouldn't be doing that if it didn't make it more likely for players to part with their money.
True, but It just has been just re skins of existing clothing which sucks. I'd like to see something totally different that's not just a re skin. People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk.
Unlocking all racial clothing |
Hal Morsh
The Witch's Hammer
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 05:01:00 -
[3614] - Quote
I dunno. I felt sad when I found out things like those space tornadoes no longer exist. I joined after their removal but I still want to see them.
Things like this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgF9BkEFKww And this isn't even space tornadoes.
I would be glad to walk around as a character in a social area. But now I hear they are moving the Nex store outside the game? That's taking it in the opposite direction.
This thread seems to have been here for little over a year in total. Let us know if you plan on anything Walking in station related any time soon.. I enjoy a good session of mining. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1063
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 20:02:00 -
[3615] - Quote
That's really cool. Excellent imaging.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
102
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 23:39:00 -
[3616] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:I dunno. I felt sad when I found out things like those space tornadoes no longer exist. I joined after their removal but I still want to see them. Things like this.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgF9BkEFKww And this isn't even space tornadoes. Oh my. what, why, when?!
now, I want them back too. |
Hal Morsh
The Witch's Hammer
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 04:46:00 -
[3617] - Quote
Almost fell off the first page. Had to bump I enjoy a good session of mining. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6299
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:43:00 -
[3618] - Quote
One time bump to fix forum. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1081
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:47:00 -
[3619] - Quote
There's never been a need to bump his thread. People are doing it naturally cause they are still wanting and discussing avatars. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1081
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:49:00 -
[3620] - Quote
So if CCP were to do a single iteration on avatars, would would be the minimum first step?
Being able to invite other players to your CQ for example? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
|
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
102
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 21:01:00 -
[3621] - Quote
want WiS, then get ready for WiS VR. |
Hal Morsh
The Witch's Hammer
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 21:34:00 -
[3622] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:want WiS, then get ready for WiS VR.
Or OculusGÇÖ evolution will fall short, EVE players will once again demand that CCP focus on spaceships and nothing else, and weGÇÖll be back at Square Whatever The One WeGÇÖre On Right Now Is.
That's a quote from the article.
The people in the comments don't seem to want "Walking in Stations" either, and they seem to know eve so probably are/were players. I enjoy a good session of mining. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1067
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 00:18:00 -
[3623] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:want WiS, then get ready for WiS VR. Or OculusGÇÖ evolution will fall short, EVE players will once again demand that CCP focus on spaceships and nothing else, and weGÇÖll be back at Square Whatever The One WeGÇÖre On Right Now Is. That's a quote from the article. The people in the comments don't seem to want "Walking in Stations" either, and they seem to know eve so probably are/were players.
It was a good article, Hilmar seems to have a solid vision of where he'd like to take Eve but the feel of the article and it's associated comments suggest that CCP has been captured by a narrow cabal of players that don't actually want any changes or indeed any further development.
I hope that they are satisfied, because that's exactly what they've got and the remaining 90% of us are considerably poorer as a result. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1670
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 01:40:00 -
[3624] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:So if CCP were to do a single iteration on avatars, would would be the minimum first step?
Being able to invite other players to your CQ for example?
Maybe. As a first step, I would personally prefer a much bigger CQ with cleaned-up character animation/interaction with their environment. The bigger CQ would hopefully serve a testbed for creating better optimized environments which I think is a major problem that a lot of people have with the CQ as it is now.
The character animations and all that are probably much more of a personal issue for me. Characters and the way they interact (or rather, the way they don't) with the environment feel kinda janky and lifeless for lack of a better word.
It's hard to go into detail without rambling on, but, if you can, try and get yours hands on a game like Remember Me, Lost Pllanet, Uncharted, Tomb Raider, Vindictus, Mass Effect, Enslaved, or any number of other games really. And then, just walk around. There's a sense of weight and purpose of movement that just doesn't exist in Eve. Granted, there's not much space to run around it, but still. It's miles apart.
Same thing more or less goes for idle animations, environment interactions, etc etc. So many other games just feel like there's a life to your character.
Probably a lot to hope for as a minimum lol, but that's what I would prefer. Tossing more people into the same room would be nice I guess, but I dunno. I feel like that's "too minimum" if that makes any sense lol. |
Commissar Kate
Team Evil
47625
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 02:36:00 -
[3625] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:Flamespar wrote:So if CCP were to do a single iteration on avatars, would would be the minimum first step?
Being able to invite other players to your CQ for example? Maybe. As a first step, I would personally prefer a much bigger CQ with cleaned-up character animation/interaction with their environment. The bigger CQ would hopefully serve a testbed for creating better optimized environments which I think is a major problem that a lot of people have with the CQ as it is now. The character animations and all that are probably much more of a personal issue for me. Characters and the way they interact (or rather, the way they don't) with the environment feel kinda janky and lifeless for lack of a better word. It's hard to go into detail without rambling on, but, if you can, try and get your hands on a game like Remember Me, Lost Pllanet, Uncharted, Tomb Raider, Vindictus, Mass Effect, Enslaved, or any number of other similar games. And then, just walk around inside one of those games. There's a sense of weight and purpose of movement that just doesn't exist in Eve. Granted, there's not much space to run around it, but still. It's worlds apart. Same thing more or less goes for idle animations, environment interactions, etc etc. So many other games just feel like there's a "life" to your character. Probably a lot to hope for as a minimum lol, but that's what I would prefer. Tossing more people into the same room would be nice I guess, but I dunno. I feel like that's "too minimum" if that makes any sense lol.
I can agree with this. I will say the characters themselves look amazing but the animation is lacking. I hate it when your not even close to the mirror your character has to stair at it.
I'm sure the Chinese market would eat this WiS stuff up. They go nuts for this avatar gameplay. People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk.
Unlocking all racial clothing |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
3103
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 12:02:00 -
[3626] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote: Maybe. As a first step, I would personally prefer a much bigger CQ with cleaned-up character animation/interaction with their environment.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. A large part of people's annoyance with Incarna was that the CQ doesn't do anything. It is visual fluff that adds nothing to the game. If CCP were to spend any obvious significant resources on making a bigger more improved visual fluff that adds nothing to the game, I am pretty sure we would get the same reaction. I for one, would be pissed.
Whatever first iteration comes, it has to add content. I don't think I can stress that enough. Even if that content were something small, there still needs to be something. Getting multiple characters in the same room at the same time also wouldn't be enough if they were just standing around doing nothing. Giving them competitive mini-games like gambling, might tip it over the 'worth-while' boundary. But I think that even then, more would be required. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1727
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 12:36:00 -
[3627] - Quote
You make a good point. I was just sorta thinking of a bigger CQ as a tiny stepping stone to actual content though. Like, "while part of the team is finishing up gambling (or whatever the content may be), we'll roll out this small slice for a month or two and make sure it runs smooth and works on as many systems as possible etc etc. After we can guarantee it won't blow up your computer after that 1-2 month testing period, then we'll roll out the actual content the rest of the team has been working on." Sorta like how Star Citizen or some of the games on Steam early access operate.
i guess my problem is, just based on what we have now, I don't exactly trust them to jump straight to actual content without some public testing of smaller steps along the way. If they could do it and make it good, then I'm all for it though. |
Chinwe Rhei
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 13:48:00 -
[3628] - Quote
Actually the captain's quarters wasn't designed completely without a function and i prefer to use it over the ship view since my computer can handle it fine. The center of the quarters is that big display, which has no equivalent elsewhere, and as a sort of "interactive television" feed it has a lot of potential. You get the latest news ticker for storyline news, you get market quotes, you get notified of incursions, you see wanted posters for the people with big bounties and you see the profiles of new players you might want to recruit. You even see soveragnity changes. Everything is clickable and brings up the relevant infromation. Sure you could web search all this stuff but it brings it to you live.
As a way of letting new players know what's going on it's not bad, and if the content was less repetitive it could be better. The first small thing i'd like to see in CQ is to be able to see EvE TV on there when it's live and maybe stream some other CCP or community EvE related videos sometime.
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3169
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:21:00 -
[3629] - Quote
Chinwe Rhei wrote:As a way of letting new players know what's going on it's not bad, and if the content was less repetitive it could be better. The first small thing i'd like to see in CQ is to be able to see EvE TV on there when it's live and maybe stream some other CCP or community EvE related videos sometime.
Now there's an idea. Just call up a field, enter the name of a Twitch channel, and have that appear in your CQ.
I mean sure, it'd be easier just to log out and watch the stream in your web browser of choice, but it'd be a fun little feature.
Playing EVE online and using the CQ screen to watch somebody ELSE play EVE online? Entertainingly pointless, if nothing else. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3169
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 15:24:00 -
[3630] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:So if CCP were to do a single iteration on avatars, would would be the minimum first step?
Being able to invite other players to your CQ for example?
Being able to generate some resource that is useful to the spaceships side of the game, even if that resource is just ISK accumulated by running a casino in Jita. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
|
Hal Morsh
The Witch's Hammer
57
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 16:20:00 -
[3631] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Flamespar wrote:So if CCP were to do a single iteration on avatars, would would be the minimum first step?
Being able to invite other players to your CQ for example? Being able to generate some resource that is useful to the spaceships side of the game, even if that resource is just ISK accumulated by running a casino in Jita.
You see? Corp run establishments are a perfect example of what we need.
Jita casinos. HELL IT EVEN FITS WITH THE LORE! Just so long as it isn't actually in Jita local as we don't need more in Jita local. Maybe caldari casino?
It keeps things like a local in station area from being stupidly over crowded and provides a viable mechanic to prevent this. I enjoy a good session of mining. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1085
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 02:54:00 -
[3632] - Quote
I'm liking the emotes they have in DayZ . Simple ones like waving hi , giving the middle finger, or signalling acceptance. It's a really good way of signalling intent to another player in a potentially hostile situation. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1755
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 03:57:00 -
[3633] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote: I was just sorta thinking of a bigger CQ It took almost 6 months for CCP to add +3 CQs after initial Minmatar room was introduced. Biggers CQs will require restoration of "Team Avatar" and maybe a year of work. Just to create bigger jail cells. When CCP will be able to add anything actually interesting there will be 2 more competing space sandbox games available - with avatars and procedural planets (i.e. endless exploration). Not to mention there is already spaceship game available with decent avatar gameplay. |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1746
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 04:54:00 -
[3634] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote: I was just sorta thinking of a bigger CQ It took almost 6 months for CCP to add +3 CQs after initial Minmatar room was introduced. Biggers CQs will require restoration of "Team Avatar" and maybe a year of work. Just to create bigger jail cells. When CCP will be able to add anything actually interesting there will be 2 more competing space sandbox games available - with avatars and procedural planets (i.e. endless exploration). Not to mention there is already spaceship game available with decent avatar gameplay.
And again I say when I brought up the idea of a bigger CQ, I did not mean it as some sort of a be all end all solution. Someone asked the question what is the minimum they should do as a first step to making meaningful avatar gameplay and I gave my answer. I don't want them to roll out bigger CQs then do nothing for 6 months to a year while they work on more content. Like I said in my post, the idea is that they would roll out bigger CQs (I guess I should have used the word "environments" instead because people are getting way to hung up on the whole CQ thing...) while the rest of the team is finishing up actual content to put into them
I was just answering the question and to me a much bigger, better optimized environment sounds like an infinitely better first step compared to jumping headfirst into a gargantuan avatar content patch that will miraculously also run completely smooth. If CCP could do that though and do it right, then by all means, they should obviously go ahead with that instead. |
Tomiko Kawase
Kite Co. Space Trucking Brave Collective
140
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 10:54:00 -
[3635] - Quote
The first step they would need to take is building a plan to add something meaningful to EVE. They should have a design doc detailing exactly what WiS would provide as a gameplay experience. This means not designing alternate means of what is already available in game such as providing a spatial neocom. CCP needs to create gameplay (hopefully nowhere in the vicinity of an actual station). The last prototyped modules they were working on before the team was axed is the correct direction to move. Expanding exploration and adding combat to avatar based gameplay is exactly the right direction. Docking into a derelict space station to explore is what WiS needed to head towards.
Start with a blueprint and build up from that. Get some models built in Unity and go from there. It's unfortunate Team Avatar started going down the right road way too late.
CQ is a logical evolution after avatar-based gameplay actually has a place in the game. Building nothing first costs a ton of development time while not really providing any content. Bombastic vintage soul with a driving groove, brass & male vocal |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1070
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 10:58:00 -
[3636] - Quote
I want a map room and a tactical room so fleet commanders and interested parties can see how engagements/battles are going remotely if they are in fleet, with good scouting they may be able to dictate the outcome more effectively behind the lines, combined with twitch streaming this might be awesome. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Hal Morsh
The Witch's Hammer
62
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 03:16:00 -
[3637] - Quote
I am sitting in station just wondering. What should I do right now.
I feel like I could enjoy gambling another player for some isk, instead of tossing it into a lotto machine on a random website. You could tell me to go play some Iphone app if I wanted to gamble. But that wouldn't have to do with eve so I wouldn't be interested. I enjoy a good session of mining. |
Ivy greene
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
111
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 04:07:00 -
[3638] - Quote
I wonder if firearms/armor would have to be manufactured/purchased for these treks?!?!? I can't wait start going on "away missions" |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1071
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 10:29:00 -
[3639] - Quote
another simple step would be allowing us to go down the steps in the CQ to the pod gantry. It all looks complete down there so I don't see why we can't go down there. The avatar seems to have no problem with steps in the CQ so it cant be an animation problem. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Hal Morsh
The Witch's Hammer
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 18:26:00 -
[3640] - Quote
Yea I read the EVE comic just now. It has people sitting at a table discussing things. I have been in corporation meetings with a private channel. A whole room to sit in with others would be nice.
And in the future when virtual reality is advanced, eve still wont have avatar gameplay will it. Ahhwell. I enjoy a good session of mining. |
|
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
343
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 02:25:00 -
[3641] - Quote
So making a comic WITH PEOPLEEEEEEEE in it doing things with their legs .and arms
So hypocrit from ccp... where is the it's spaceship game .... etc etc how should have been a comic with only Ships in it :) RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1086
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 04:00:00 -
[3642] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:Lipbite wrote:Baby ChuChu wrote: I was just sorta thinking of a bigger CQ It took almost 6 months for CCP to add +3 CQs after initial Minmatar room was introduced. Biggers CQs will require restoration of "Team Avatar" and maybe a year of work. Just to create bigger jail cells. When CCP will be able to add anything actually interesting there will be 2 more competing space sandbox games available - with avatars and procedural planets (i.e. endless exploration). Not to mention there is already spaceship game available with decent avatar gameplay. And again I say when I brought up the idea of a bigger CQ, I did not mean it as some sort of a be all end all solution. Someone asked the question what is the minimum they should do as a first step to making meaningful avatar gameplay and I gave my answer. I don't want them to roll out bigger CQs then do nothing for 6 months to a year while they work on more content. Like I said in my post, the idea behind my answer is that they would roll out bigger CQs (I guess I should have used the word "environments" instead because people are getting way to hung up on the whole CQ thing...) while the rest of the team is finishing up actual content to put into them I was just answering the question and to me a much bigger, better optimized environment sounds like an infinitely better first step compared to jumping headfirst into a gargantuan avatar content patch that will miraculously also run completely smooth. If CCP could do that though and do it right, then by all means, they should obviously go ahead with that instead.
You know, given that Dust514 uses the same captains quarters for it's mercs. Why not get the Dust team to design some upgraded quarters that could be shared across games.
I would pay real dollars for a bigger quarters. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
389
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 05:12:00 -
[3643] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:You know, given that Dust514 uses the same captains quarters for it's mercs. Why not get the Dust team to design some upgraded quarters that could be shared across games.
I would pay real dollars for a bigger quarters.
DUST team has nowhere the dev/art team size as EVE. They use the same quarters as EVE because then they don't have to develop their own. |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1777
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 05:37:00 -
[3644] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:
You know, given that Dust514 uses the same captains quarters for it's mercs. Why not get the Dust team to design some upgraded quarters that could be shared across games.
I would pay real dollars for a bigger quarters.
The entire DUST team should be working on DUST right now. I mean i like the game and everything, but I think anyone who plays it can agree there is plenty of room for improvement. Eve could always use some improvement too, but I don't think the DUST team can afford to branch out much right now.
That and I regret ever bringing up CQs because I feel like we're still getting hung up on those when my idea was more so on what they would mean in the grand scheme of things on a technical level rather than them in and of themselves. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1087
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 05:49:00 -
[3645] - Quote
Baby ChuChu wrote:Flamespar wrote:
You know, given that Dust514 uses the same captains quarters for it's mercs. Why not get the Dust team to design some upgraded quarters that could be shared across games.
I would pay real dollars for a bigger quarters.
The entire DUST team should be working on DUST right now. I mean i like the game and everything, but I think anyone who plays it can agree there is plenty of room for improvement. Eve could always use some improvement too, but I don't think the DUST team can afford to branch out much right now. That and I regret ever bringing up CQs because I feel like we're still getting hung up on those when my idea was more so on what they would mean in the grand scheme of things on a technical level rather than them in and of themselves.
Nah. It's ok discussing this stuff. It's fun. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Commissar Kate
Team Evil
48272
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:15:00 -
[3646] - Quote
I don't think there is anyway a larger CQ would be a good start, maybe later on but not right now.
There is gonna have to be ways to make ISK and/or shooting people first before anyone accepts WiS as a serious game mechanic, then it would be time to add the fluff stuff. People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk.
Unlocking all racial clothing |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
392
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 18:31:00 -
[3647] - Quote
The Catch-22 is it's hard to introduce actual game mechanics before we even have a place we can interact with other people. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:54:00 -
[3648] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:The Catch-22 is it's hard to introduce actual game mechanics before we even have a place we can interact with other people.
True, but avatar content would lead to new forms of emergent game play that in turn may spawn new game mechanics. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ai Shun
1090
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:05:00 -
[3649] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:The Catch-22 is it's hard to introduce actual game mechanics before we even have a place we can interact with other people.
This is why it needs to be funded separately from EVE Online and have the ability to both integrate with EVE and run as a standalone platform. Like Dust, but closer coupled / integrated to the EVE client as an option. (See here for a broader discussion on how it could work)
The benefits are that as a standalone, marketable entity it can have its own business plan, development direction and is more likely to be realised as viable. It also means it can be targeted at a wider audience and provides the needed enhancement to the concept of an EVE Universe, rather than just EVE Spaceships.
It is based on the premise that client side code sharing is possible, but anybody familiar with core Windows APIs will know it is |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1088
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:54:00 -
[3650] - Quote
The more I think of it, the more I think that being able to invite players would be an important first step.
Tech wise it would require the ability to have multiple avatars in the one environment (which we need) It also allows me to show off all the limited edition ships that I have and you don't. :P Would be a really immersive way to interview new recruits - "see that command ship floating in my hanger? Stick with us and one day you will be flying one." I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
|
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1040
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:42:00 -
[3651] - Quote
Who knows, maybe we will be playing WiS finally in a 10 years (!) and will see more than what there used to be - Caldari light marine - exceptional clone
I used Dust promo poster partially but could not find better lower part, so the feets are somewhat pixelated. _¦Å-æ-»¦Ñ¦¼-Ä_-¢-å¦ä_-½-»-å¦ÿ-ò-û¦¦ |
DSpite Culhach
291
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:20:00 -
[3652] - Quote
if you're in a station controlled by navy factions and you have a negative sec status and a bounty, other hi sec status avatars can shoot you, ditto the other way around in low sec pirate stations.
Instant pew pew.
Lets stop people hiding in stations and shoot them while they are market trading in their CQ.
CCP could also sell CQ door locks with AURUM.
No? Well, screw you guys, these are great ideas. ~ |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
393
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:06:00 -
[3653] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:The more I think of it, the more I think that being able to invite players would be an important first step.
Tech wise it would require the ability to have multiple avatars in the one environment (which we need) It also allows me to show off all the limited edition ships that I have and you don't. :P Would be a really immersive way to interview new recruits - "see that command ship floating in my hanger? Stick with us and one day you will be flying one."
I've always said the easiest short-term development would be to right click on a guest in the station list and invite them to your quarters. And even then, I didn't think about the fact that despite there being no quarters customization yet, you would be able to show them different ships, which would be cool. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3182
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:12:00 -
[3654] - Quote
Any small, slow iteration has got to be better than stagnation, surely? We don't need a Jesus Feature based around Avatar content in the next expansion, but a little bit of extra avatar stuff creeping in here and there really would be very nice. More free clothing options and more stuff on the NeX may not sound like much, but if we build from there into having, say, a corp meeting room, or CQ customisation, and from there maybe we can accelerate into smuggling and heists and below-decks shootouts.
The point is, something small is better than nothing at all. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Ai Shun
1141
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:37:00 -
[3655] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Any small, slow iteration has got to be better than stagnation, surely? We don't need a Jesus Feature based around Avatar content in the next expansion, but a little bit of extra avatar stuff creeping in here and there really would be very nice. More free clothing options and more stuff on the NeX may not sound like much, but if we build from there into having, say, a corp meeting room, or CQ customisation, and from there maybe we can accelerate into smuggling and heists and below-decks shootouts.
The point is, something small is better than nothing at all.
They've already said that's not happening, haven't they? The only realistic way I can see (And have said for all the time we've been waiting since Incarna's mess) is to go for gold. Put something together that can stand in its own right with a business model and a plan.
Simply tacking on tidbits does not deliver enough to make it compelling for a wider audience and you need a wider audience to help pay the bills. The people that are already playing EVE and posting in this thread are ... well ... paying for EVE. As long as they pay for EVE they're not going to get WiS as the money is spent on EVE. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3183
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:44:00 -
[3656] - Quote
Oh I agree, I'd LIKE to see a major avatar-based expansion introducing all sorts of cool sandboxy gameplay to explore on foot.
But if it's a choice between nothing at all, and something small, then something small wins every time, right? An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Flamespar
Woof Club
1090
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:54:00 -
[3657] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Oh I agree, I'd LIKE to see a major avatar-based expansion introducing all sorts of cool sandboxy gameplay to explore on foot.
But if it's a choice between nothing at all, and something small, then something small wins every time, right?
I dunno about you. But I would like something large enough so they don't have to come back to it for a while. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1089
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:17:00 -
[3658] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Stitcher wrote:Oh I agree, I'd LIKE to see a major avatar-based expansion introducing all sorts of cool sandboxy gameplay to explore on foot.
But if it's a choice between nothing at all, and something small, then something small wins every time, right? I dunno about you. But I would like something large enough so they don't have to come back to it for a while.
When the eve tv show hits our screens and the folks at home get to see actors doing interesting things they might feel inclined to join the game. I can't help but feel they will be hideously disappointed when all they can is walk up the ramp to the hanger. CCP needs decent avatar content to tie everything together, such as the comic, the books, the tv show, dust and valkyrie. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ai Shun
1160
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:22:00 -
[3659] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:But if it's a choice between nothing at all, and something small, then something small wins every time, right?
No, not for me. What we have now is "something small" and what has been the outcome of that? A large volume of animosity generated towards Avatar content for a number of players, it being the scape-goat for the Summer of Rage, a few melted video cards and the disappointment that comes when a feature is dropped.
I would honestly have nothing at all beyond input and feedback from their planning and the resources wasted on "something small" saved and used in something that delivers meaningful avatar content with an actual purpose.
|
DSpite Culhach
293
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 10:14:00 -
[3660] - Quote
Ok, slightly off at a tangent, but if we can control an entire ship and a whole stack of drones at the same time, could we not control a bipedal combat robot and NOT have to get out of pods and be really squishy in an easy to puncture suit surrounded by hard vacuum? It would be a "drone" of sort anyway.
If we have to do EVA it would make zero sense to me to abandon a cocoon of shields, armour and energy reinforced hull to step into thin metallic pajamas and what, look around a dead hull that's been floating in space for years?
I'd drag the whole thing back into the hanger of a Freighter, inject nerve gas, and come back in a week. Minimum. Then send in scout drones. And gas it again, just to be sure.
As much as an EVA idea is cool "in a minigame to play sense", it's a tad silly in an EVE sense, especially when players might have 50+ million isk clone bodies to put on the line during an EVA, the same thing would apply to "walking in stations" concepts, with 1 mill isk clone gankers doing Cloneageddons.
I apparently have no idea what I'm doing. |
|
Mister Tuggles
Faceless Men
89
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 10:56:00 -
[3661] - Quote
While I absolutely love this idea, it will never happen. We all saw what happened when the lack luster Incarna expansion hit. People went up in arms, rioted, etc, etc. CCP would catch so much flack from the vocal minority of the player base for "wasting time" on anything other than flying in space that they would have the riots in Jita all over again.
Sadly, if CCP were to announce they are working on this the alliance lemmings will do what they are told by their higher ups. Even if they would enjoy the content they will riot, and protest, and throw **** on the walls just because their leaders tell them to do so.
WIS is not a bad idea. The emergent game play we could get for Eve would be a HUGE addition to the game. Just look at what they were able to prototype in what, 3 months? It would attract a much wider demographic of players, and generally be a great step for CCP, and Eve O in general. I just wish people would move past the stagnation of the game in its current state, and allow CCP to do innovative things like this. And I say stagnant in the sense that we get very, VERY few meaningful additions to the game. The new deployables were one, WH's were another. I can't think of much else that we have gotten in my play time with Eve (on and off since 2006). Unless they pull the modular POS system out of their asses for the Summer expansion I feel it is going to be another disappointment. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3205
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:52:00 -
[3662] - Quote
So the trick to avoiding more riots is to make the next avatar-content expansion not lackluster.
People didn't object to the existence of human characters walking around, they objected to the way it was one room and a lot of expensive vanity items that didn't meaningfully contribute to the sandbox.
If any future EVE on Foot expansion did introduce content which contributed to the sandbox and fed into the space side of the game and was any good, the complainers would be quite rightly ignored. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Prince Volcae
Reaper Tech Inc. 9th Company
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:22:00 -
[3663] - Quote
When we we be able to realy explore stations not just sleeper ones, why not also asteroids? Like the colonies all over the place. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3207
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:34:00 -
[3664] - Quote
I'm up for walking around anything so long as there's a resource to gather, ISK to be made, or people drawn there by those two things whom I can then shoot and whose resources and ISK I can then purloin. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2272
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 17:46:00 -
[3665] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:So the trick to avoiding more riots is to make the next avatar-content expansion not lackluster.
After satisfactorily addressing the core mechanic issues of existing gameplay that are broken.
People were upset both because the avatar gameplay given was so bad and because the spaceship game was ignored for almost two years to make it. People will need to feel that the spaceship game has generally been properly addressed before they're prepared to see resources moved back to avatar gameplay, whatever the perceived outcome of the effort is.
Even more than simply going on past experience, I don't see how anyone can practically be trusted to make new gameplay when they're struggling to address glaring issues with their existing game(s). Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Janden Rynd
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:46:00 -
[3666] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Stitcher wrote:So the trick to avoiding more riots is to make the next avatar-content expansion not lackluster. After satisfactorily addressing the core mechanic issues of existing gameplay that are broken.
So, never then? There will always be issues that need improvement, and things that need fixing. Should CCP halt all new content indefinitely until the game reaches some impossible ideal of perfection? If that's the design philosophy you want to encourage, you will never see another new feature in this game, ever.
Developing new features while iterating and improving existing features in parallel is the best way for a live MMO to go. WIS just needs to be one of those features getting some iteration.
|
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
184
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 21:51:00 -
[3667] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Crasniya wrote:The Catch-22 is it's hard to introduce actual game mechanics before we even have a place we can interact with other people. True, but avatar content would lead to new forms of emergent game play that in turn may spawn new game mechanics.
You mean like panhandling in Jita 4-4?
"Hey man, I've got five kids to feed..." |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2272
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 22:23:00 -
[3668] - Quote
Janden Rynd wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:
After satisfactorily addressing the core mechanic issues of existing gameplay that are broken.
So, never then? There will always be issues that need improvement, and things that need fixing.
Nonresponsive. Even sadder because you directly quoted that which you failed to properly address.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
3118
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 12:38:00 -
[3669] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote: People were upset both because the avatar gameplay given was so bad and because the spaceship game was ignored for almost two years to make it. People will need to feel that the spaceship game has generally been properly addressed before they're prepared to see resources moved back to avatar gameplay, whatever the perceived outcome of the effort is.
Yes, and no. Yes, the game was ignored and the players were angry (rightfully so). No, that being ignored had nothing to do with Avatar content. It didn't take CCP 2 years to build our CQs, they developed a games engine (reinvented the wheel when they should have just bought one) and started working on Dust and World of Darkness in that time.
We were ignored because CCP got greedy and spread their resources too thin, not because CCP had a dream of Avatar content. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2276
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 15:28:00 -
[3670] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Varius Xeral wrote: People were upset both because the avatar gameplay given was so bad and because the spaceship game was ignored for almost two years to make it. People will need to feel that the spaceship game has generally been properly addressed before they're prepared to see resources moved back to avatar gameplay, whatever the perceived outcome of the effort is.
Yes, and no. Yes, the game was ignored and the players were angry (rightfully so). No, that being ignored had nothing to do with Avatar content. It didn't take CCP 2 years to build our CQs, they developed a games engine (reinvented the wheel when they should have just bought one) and started working on Dust and World of Darkness in that time. We were ignored because CCP got greedy and spread their resources too thin, not because CCP had a dream of Avatar content.
That's a fair correction. Thank you.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1089
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 08:58:00 -
[3671] - Quote
Janden Rynd wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Stitcher wrote:So the trick to avoiding more riots is to make the next avatar-content expansion not lackluster. After satisfactorily addressing the core mechanic issues of existing gameplay that are broken. So, never then? There will always be issues that need improvement, and things that need fixing. Should CCP halt all new content indefinitely until the game reaches some impossible ideal of perfection? If that's the design philosophy you want to encourage, you will never see another new feature in this game, ever. Developing new features while iterating and improving existing features in parallel is the best way for a live MMO to go. WIS just needs to be one of those features getting some iteration.
As if to prove this point I just checked the features and ideas section to note that the t1 frigs and cruisers are having yet another balance pass.
A game as complex as eve can never truly be perfect. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2283
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 15:06:00 -
[3672] - Quote
Congrats on "proving" a nonresponsive, and thereby irrelevant, point. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1054
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 17:06:00 -
[3673] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Varius Xeral wrote: People were upset both because the avatar gameplay given was so bad and because the spaceship game was ignored for almost two years to make it. People will need to feel that the spaceship game has generally been properly addressed before they're prepared to see resources moved back to avatar gameplay, whatever the perceived outcome of the effort is.
Yes, and no. Yes, the game was ignored and the players were angry (rightfully so). No, that being ignored had nothing to do with Avatar content. It didn't take CCP 2 years to build our CQs, they developed a games engine (reinvented the wheel when they should have just bought one) and started working on Dust and World of Darkness in that time. We were ignored because CCP got greedy and spread their resources too thin, not because CCP had a dream of Avatar content.
Than I suppose you are spitting angry all the time now.
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:As if to prove this point I just checked the features and ideas section to note that the t1 frigs and cruisers are having yet another balance pass.
A game as complex as eve can never truly be perfect.
CCP latest rebalancing of caracal: +0.01 inertia .. . What? That's all folks. _¦Å-æ-»¦Ñ¦¼-Ä_-¢-å¦ä_-½-»-å¦ÿ-ò-û¦¦ |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1093
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 09:54:00 -
[3674] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Congrats on "proving" a nonresponsive, and thereby irrelevant, point.
I don't mean to be disrespectful and wouldn't have contributed my reply to the thread had I not thought that it was relevant. We're all friends here, this is just an exchange of ideas not an attack on you personally.
All I meant to say that I don't believe that there will ever be a time when the player base of Eve online considers Eve to be balanced, you'll always have players claiming that something or other is OP whilst devs keep on nerfing things they deem to be too popular. This is continual work, a bit like painting one of those huge suspension bridges where a small workforce takes a long time to paint the bridge having to start again at the beginning when the job is done on account of the fact that the old paint has worn off and the structure has to be protected.
It's not a bad analogy of CCP, not only are they continuously repainting Eve Online but having a small workforce means that they take a long time to do so, but unlike the guys on the suspension bridge, CCP have decided to paint not just one bridge but four big bridges (Eve, Dust, Valkyrie, WOD) and one small bridge (Phone Apps) without expanding the crew.
Everyone looks at star citizen (which I am sure will be a disappointment) as the ideal game which has spaceships, the market place, avatar interaction and just about everything that we have in eve without actually being eve, but if CCP focused their entire attention on the only product they've got that is paying their bills (Eve Online) then nobody would be talking about Star Citizen as we'd have it all here in Eve Online.
I love Eve and I love New Eden as unlike other game worlds this one feels real, it's a simulation of real human interaction via makets, spaceships, scamming, villainy and the cold, black, beating hearts of the sociopaths that grapple with power out there amongst the lawless places. It's beautiful because it's a mirror of real life and that's why I want to see avatar interactions so that all of the above can be played out face to face, person to person, up close and personal where it counts just like in real life.
Edit: I just found this pic on another forum here. The guy is reporting a bug in the client in a humorous way. but he's idden his system information and blanked out his intel/corp channels in his screenshot. This doesn't happen anywhere else in the gaming world but it's routine here.
http://i.imgur.com/ImsKvMi.jpg
This is why I love Eve Online! Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
147
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 12:04:00 -
[3675] - Quote
Well from looking at things all they would need for a start would be to have a room where you can invite other people ie. works the same way as the regular chat in EVE and if the player happens to be in space then the character would be shown on a wall screen in CQ and chat displayed on screen and in the text as usual (or rather all text could be on channel just avatars in a room).
People would be prompted of the invite to arrive at station x in system x for a meeting to take place, click yes and you would find your self in CQ with the person who invited you.
For a start the "room chat" could be limited to say 5 people max in person and the rest would be in channel.
It doesn't have to be more then that to have a meaningful game play. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 12:46:00 -
[3676] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Edit: I just found this pic on another forum here. The guy is reporting a bug in the client in a humorous way. but he's idden his system information and blanked out his intel/corp channels in his screenshot. This doesn't happen anywhere else in the gaming world but it's routine here. http://i.imgur.com/ImsKvMi.jpgThis is why I love Eve Online!
Well, not to be a nitpicker, but this happens a lot in the gaming world. One cursory reason (not in this instance though) is that many bugs are especially apparent and prevalent when a player really pushes the limits of the system ie: in many cases, when they are deliberately exploiting the system. That makes it necessary to protect ones identity when issuing images of it publically (though ofc not necessary when reporting straight to the games own staff).
I have tons of such images from Warhammer Online, for example, where it was necessary to protect both my own and the people I was observing, identity while still attempting to draw attention to the bug/exploit.
Anyways, just an aside. I don't disagree with your post. This just was one small point I wanted to raise.
On the specific image here, I expect the person is in fleet with his own alt, and wants to keep the association of the two characters unknown to others (maybe even to his own Corp mates). |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
2283
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 15:29:00 -
[3677] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I don't mean to be disrespectful and wouldn't have contributed my reply to the thread had I not thought that it was relevant. We're all friends here, this is just an exchange of ideas not an attack on you personally.
It has nothing to do with personal attacks and everything to do with knocking down strawmen.
Again, congratulations on providing proof against a position that was never taken.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Tomiko Kawase
Kite Co. Space Trucking
142
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 11:21:00 -
[3678] - Quote
Looks like the EVE 'Source' Coat is the hideous 'Executor' Coat.
Ugh.
I don't know what I was expecting. At least it's not a Structure Dress, I guess? Bombastic vintage soul with a driving groove, brass & male vocal |
Kudos12345
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 12:35:00 -
[3679] - Quote
Casinos in Space,
poker, black jack and so on.
That's what i would wanna do with my avatar. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1093
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 20:28:00 -
[3680] - Quote
Tomiko Kawase wrote:Looks like the EVE 'Source' Coat is the hideous 'Executor' Coat.
Ugh.
I don't know what I was expecting. At least it's not a Structure Dress, I guess?
edit: Whoever is designing the NEO shirts, why not just use the logo from the stream? The graphic on them is so small and complex, you can barely tell what it is. Disappointing...
Yeah I think they are scraping the bottom of the barrel a bit. Shame. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
|
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
418
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 18:43:00 -
[3681] - Quote
Hopefully, ship paint should lead to better Nex Store development, which should lead to more WiS development. In particular, if ship paint can self-fund more work on ship paint, it'll demonstrate the likelihood that WiS content can self-fund more work on WiS content. |
Tomiko Kawase
Kite Co. Space Trucking
142
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 21:13:00 -
[3682] - Quote
Purchases of WiS content from the NEX store would require stuff that doesn't look like the Structure Dress.
Not too hopeful there. Bombastic vintage soul with a driving groove, brass & male vocal |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
426
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 21:45:00 -
[3683] - Quote
Tomiko Kawase wrote:Purchases of WiS content from the NEX store would require stuff that doesn't look like the Structure Dress.
Not too hopeful there.
Getting more new models for clothes would go along with proving that the AUR model can have a place in EVE, and that vanity items can fund their own development. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1108
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 22:33:00 -
[3684] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Tomiko Kawase wrote:Purchases of WiS content from the NEX store would require stuff that doesn't look like the Structure Dress.
Not too hopeful there. Getting more new models for clothes would go along with proving that the AUR model can have a place in EVE, and that vanity items can fund their own development.
They are going to give it a try with ship skins I hope it spreads to more avatar clothing and options for us. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1094
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 00:38:00 -
[3685] - Quote
It'll be interesting to see how the destructible ship skins sell compared to the permanent clothing items. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Commissar Kate
Team Evil
51714
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 00:40:00 -
[3686] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Crasniya wrote:Tomiko Kawase wrote:Purchases of WiS content from the NEX store would require stuff that doesn't look like the Structure Dress.
Not too hopeful there. Getting more new models for clothes would go along with proving that the AUR model can have a place in EVE, and that vanity items can fund their own development. They are going to give it a try with ship skins I hope it spreads to more avatar clothing and options for us.
I hope it does too. I want the White "Avenue" tank top very badly. The assets are in the game for it and all CCP needs to do is start selling it. People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk.
Unlocking all racial clothing |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
446
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 03:33:00 -
[3687] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It'll be interesting to see how the destructible ship skins sell compared to the permanent clothing items.
Also, ship skins are much closer to the "SPACESHIPS ONLY" people, and the "everything should be destructible" people. Maybe WiS was just too far outside the box for some people. ;) |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1115
|
Posted - 2014.03.09 12:23:00 -
[3688] - Quote
The key to success for WIS in a game like eve is to have everything that is related to WIS as destructible and damaging. That means allowing combat in stations, hanger thefts and all sorts of nefarious WIS gameplay.
If you cant hurt them in space, hurt them in the station. Make it so that you are not even guaranteed perfect safety when docked. That would shake things up very nicely in Jita and in those invulnerable stations out in null. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
DSpite Culhach
299
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 02:27:00 -
[3689] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:The key to success for WIS in a game like eve is to have everything that is related to WIS as destructible and damaging. That means allowing combat in stations, hanger thefts and all sorts of nefarious WIS gameplay.
If you cant hurt them in space, hurt them in the station. Make it so that you are not even guaranteed perfect safety when docked. That would shake things up very nicely in Jita and in those invulnerable stations out in null.
As much as I like the idea, you can't just have a system where a player can just walk up to a "hanger" and break in. You can't simply extend the ability to destroy and steal stuff to everything in this game, as it is not "real life" and players can not be online in the game to defend against this type of PvP, This is exactly the reason POS'es have reinforce timers. If you were "living the game" this would make sense, but online a few hours a day? I don't think so.
What will happen is that you will take all the space PvP away as people can now just steal stuff directly from a hanger, and will start making maxed out "thieves", to which the only counter will be to transfer really large bank accounts and hangers to "storage" accounts, and then let them go to "unsubscribed" mode, as you can always just plex one month if you need to access the assets in a dire emergency.
And if anyone here response is "then we make items steal-able from offline accounts" then those people need their heads examined.
We already have "thieves", they infiltrate a corp, gain trust, get assigned privileges, and then take everything and run. It's quite enough already. I apparently have no idea what I'm doing. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1099
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 05:20:00 -
[3690] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:The key to success for WIS in a game like eve is to have everything that is related to WIS as destructible and damaging. That means allowing combat in stations, hanger thefts and all sorts of nefarious WIS gameplay.
If you cant hurt them in space, hurt them in the station. Make it so that you are not even guaranteed perfect safety when docked. That would shake things up very nicely in Jita and in those invulnerable stations out in null. As much as I like the idea, you can't just have a system where a player can just walk up to a "hanger" and break in. You can't simply extend the ability to destroy and steal stuff to everything in this game, as it is not "real life" and players can not be online in the game to defend against this type of PvP, This is exactly the reason POS'es have reinforce timers. If you were "living the game" this would make sense, but online a few hours a day? I don't think so. What will happen is that you will take all the space PvP away as people can now just steal stuff directly from a hanger, and will start making maxed out "thieves", to which the only counter will be to transfer really large bank accounts and hangers to "storage" accounts, and then let them go to "unsubscribed" mode, as you can always just plex one month if you need to access the assets in a dire emergency. And if anyone here response is "then we make items steal-able from offline accounts" then those people need their heads examined. We already have "thieves", they infiltrate a corp, gain trust, get assigned privileges, and then take everything and run. It's quite enough already.
One of the core principles of EVE is to allow players to pick their level of risk. There should be levels of risk in WiS.
I don't know how this would look, but it should range from being almost completely safe (say in a bar or in your personal CQ for example), to high risk (in a derelict). EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
|
Sibyyl
178
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 08:43:00 -
[3691] - Quote
I'm still fairly new and I'm not sure WIS really has its place in GëíVGëí, but I think one application that would be really interesting is adding a station administrator/operator role, and even extend POSes to include slowly moving battle platforms.
The operator would be restricted by her physical movement (skills can help her improve her multitasking, agility, and competence) and she would be responsible for providing defensive support to undocking ships, navigate the battle platform, lay mines, and then defend the station if necessary. She may also be responsible for repairs by climbing outside in a spacesuit or directing droids, performing deep scanning (think about a science station), or remote observation (like having spy stations).
Boarding rules for station/POS takeover could be implemented. In a complex version of "Paratrooper" the operator may be expected to fend off invading clones and lock down her corp's property.
I think this would help improve the sort of boring and clunky (POS offlining and shields) mechanics that POSes and Customs Offices have.
What are your opinions of these ideas?
/Fÿ¡
Now that you are *campers* you will have more *parties* and no more *sad* *lonely* *bubbles*. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
447
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 20:18:00 -
[3692] - Quote
It'd be nice if all these random items we got with Christmas gifts, the Collector's Edition, EVE Source, etc. showed in our Captain's Quarters. Given how much money some of these collector's items filter into CCP's hands, it'd be a nice gesture.
My EVE Source book should appear on my bookshelf at the station I'm storing it. |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
3130
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 18:00:00 -
[3693] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:It'd be nice if all these random items we got with Christmas gifts, the Collector's Edition, EVE Source, etc. showed in our Captain's Quarters. Given how much money some of these collector's items filter into CCP's hands, it'd be a nice gesture.
My EVE Source book should appear on my bookshelf at the station I'm storing it.
I want a meat-locker for my corpse collection to show up in. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
454
|
Posted - 2014.03.14 21:29:00 -
[3694] - Quote
It'd be a nice way to start the personalization for Captain's Quarters, and reward people with collector's and specialty items. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1101
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:48:00 -
[3695] - Quote
Maybe CCP will announce something at fanfest EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 10:04:00 -
[3696] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Crasniya wrote:It'd be nice if all these random items we got with Christmas gifts, the Collector's Edition, EVE Source, etc. showed in our Captain's Quarters. Given how much money some of these collector's items filter into CCP's hands, it'd be a nice gesture.
My EVE Source book should appear on my bookshelf at the station I'm storing it. I want a meat-locker for my corpse collection to show up in. or a fishtank |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1074
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 10:13:00 -
[3697] - Quote
Post your CQ images personalized in GIMP or Photoshop. Share your ideas with others. It's all what we can do now. Edit signature? What's the point? |
Flamespar
Woof Club
1101
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 01:35:00 -
[3698] - Quote
At this point I think the player desire for more meaningful avatar gameplay has been exhaustively demonstrated. This thread has been active for well over a year now.
It's really up to CCP to acknowledge that this interest exists, and to do something meaningful about it. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
466
|
Posted - 2014.03.20 20:34:00 -
[3699] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Maybe CCP will announce something at fanfest
I'm not expecting much in this department, sadly. Other than the sleeves like the tattoos and cybernetic arms, we've seen nothing from them, and my understanding is those were things finished long ago, but just not released until the Collector's Edition. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
471
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:19:00 -
[3700] - Quote
Thread fell too far back on GD. Issue has been fixed. |
|
Hal Morsh
The Witch's Hammer
102
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:17:00 -
[3701] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Thread fell too far back on GD. Issue has been fixed.
Until CCP says "STATION WALKING!!!" We aren't getting Wi$. I enjoy a good session of mining. |
Jian Mira
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:49:00 -
[3702] - Quote
I really think we need some new clothes for the Avatar's not much of a selection...
any thoughts? |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
475
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:53:00 -
[3703] - Quote
Jian Mira wrote:I really think we need some new clothes for the Avatar's not much of a selection...
any thoughts?
I know they were trying to go with this "unique New Eden style", but realistically, a lot of people would pay good money for some more conventional designs. A good straight-up tuxedo, for example. They can still be space materials, but some of the styles CCP went with are just wacky. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1864
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 20:56:00 -
[3704] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Maybe CCP will announce something at fanfest Doesn't matter. Fanfest announcements take like 5-GêP years to appear unless it's something simple - like gate jumping animation or couple new ships. |
Ana Criid
Legio Aurica
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 21:45:00 -
[3705] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Jian Mira wrote:I really think we need some new clothes for the Avatar's not much of a selection...
any thoughts? I know they were trying to go with this "unique New Eden style", but realistically, a lot of people would pay good money for some more conventional designs. A good straight-up tuxedo, for example. They can still be space materials, but some of the styles CCP went with are just wacky.
You think current EvE style is wacky? Does no one remember what the old avatars looked liked?... there is nothing 'wacky' about 99.9% of our current wardrobe. It's just vaguely futuristic jackets, boots and friggin t-shirts. Current eve clothes are way too conventional already as it is... We need some proper spacey designs. >:P |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1120
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:23:00 -
[3706] - Quote
I'd like to see some more racial clothing options. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 23:42:00 -
[3707] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Crasniya wrote:Thread fell too far back on GD. Issue has been fixed. Until CCP says "STATION WALKING!!!" We aren't getting Wi$.
Or WIS "WALKING IN SHIPS" Example like Clear Skies.
Don't forget about that one
I am not a CCP employee-ájust having a input in the EvE forum
|
Tomiko Kawase
Kite Co. Space Trucking
145
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:35:00 -
[3708] - Quote
How about never using the words "walking in [ ]" ever again. I don't think anyone wants a boring method of movement in a game. Maybe the first step in overcoming this hurdle is getting away from what failed in the past.
How about "living in space" as a more broad term, or something like that. I just feel like we shouldn't touch "WiS" with a ten-foot pole. Bombastic vintage soul with a driving groove, brass & male vocal |
Goa Chai
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 00:54:00 -
[3709] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Post your CQ images personalized in GIMP or Photoshop. Share your ideas with others. It's all what we can do now. You mean like this? |
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
345
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 03:27:00 -
[3710] - Quote
Tomiko Kawase wrote:How about never using the words "walking in [ ]" ever again. I don't think anyone wants a boring method of movement in a game. Maybe the first step in overcoming this hurdle is getting away from what failed in the past.
How about "living in space" as a more broad term, or something like that. I just feel like we shouldn't touch "WiS" with a ten-foot pole.
How about "People in space" or "Space Citizens" or something like that?
This would open up lots of areas the game could expand to, like avatar fps in stations and on planets, or maybe even walking around our ships that we are flying, maybe take an actual look at the cargo in the cargo hold, or just man the tail turret while your friend pilots the ship and another friend mans the deep space scan for pirates. Oh! Oh! and if WE are the pirates we could even board other player ships and take their stuff.
Think of all the things avatars could bring to a space sim. Guess we can only dream. |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4165
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 03:31:00 -
[3711] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Tomiko Kawase wrote:How about never using the words "walking in [ ]" ever again. I don't think anyone wants a boring method of movement in a game. Maybe the first step in overcoming this hurdle is getting away from what failed in the past.
How about "living in space" as a more broad term, or something like that. I just feel like we shouldn't touch "WiS" with a ten-foot pole. How about "People in space" or "Space Citizens" or something like that? This would open up lots of areas the game could expand to, like avatar fps in stations and on planets, or maybe even walking around our ships that we are flying, maybe take an actual look at the cargo in the cargo hold, or just man the tail turret while your friend pilots the ship and another friend mans the deep space scan for pirates. Oh! Oh! and if WE are the pirates we could even board other player ships and take their stuff. Think of all the things avatars could bring to a space sim. Guess we can only dream.
Maybe you should call any expansion of the Captain's Closet: "Bonus Room".
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1122
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 04:43:00 -
[3712] - Quote
There's a new Star Citizen video in which a 5 man dev team talk about the modular room system they are building for the game.
5 people.
The good thing about star citizen is that it's going to cause a lot of people to start asking "why can't we do this in EVE?" EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1212
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:32:00 -
[3713] - Quote
Meanwhile in Dodixie...
Edit signature? What's the point? |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
476
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:42:00 -
[3714] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:There's a new Star Citizen video in which a 5 man dev team talk about the modular room system they are building for the game.
5 people.
The good thing about star citizen is that it's going to cause a lot of people to start asking "why can't we do this in EVE?"
And bear in mind, people have given Star Citizen $40 million dollars to let them walk around and inside their ships in a hangar with no gameplay. CCP is leaving money on the table here. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4549
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:46:00 -
[3715] - Quote
Tomiko Kawase wrote:How about never using the words "walking in [ ]" ever again. I don't think anyone wants a boring method of movement in a game. Maybe the first step in overcoming this hurdle is getting away from what failed in the past.
How about "living in space" as a more broad term, or something like that. I just feel like we shouldn't touch "WiS" with a ten-foot pole.
I vote for "Fighting in stations".
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
477
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:00:00 -
[3716] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Seriously, I think this could take off IF there was more interaction and we separated the avatar aspect from the PLEX aspect. Such as it could be, a player who does not have an active plex could still hang around in a station and stay in touch, but just not have any skill que, or contracts, fly any ships, etc. It would keep those who have to un-sub in contact. It could also help those who don't have time to even fly (it happens) but at the least need some interaction with other "people". On doing that I would then open up MT for Aurum, detaching it from PLEX so those people who are on a downtime in the gaming habits can still play space Barbie at the least but stay in touch with corpies.
I actually really like this, it's a good financial justification for it. Players who keep connected with things are more likely to resubscribe. There's issues I foresee though. It would be hard to justify not being able to purchase or sell things on the market without a "pilot's license", but I doubt CCP wants unsubbed players screwing with the economy. And allowing people to do market PvP without being subbed would actually cause a bunch of people to unsub and play unsubbed. ;)
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:A clear line between space ship life (PLEX, subs, no "golden ammo", not P2W, no MT, etc) and station life (go ahead with MT but don't require sub or plex to be there) could go a long way and the station side would be monetized as other MMOs are now. If it were up to me (TM) I would be trying to enjoy the best of both worlds.
Whether players like it or not, microtransactions will inevitably affect space. That's simply a reality of the game industry players will have to learn to live with one way or the other. The important distinction is that it not provide any advantage over non-AUR methods, and that it doesn't break the economic model of non-microtransaction things. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1126
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:09:00 -
[3717] - Quote
I don't understand why people freak out about micro-transactions so much, since everything that is in the NeX store can be brought for ISK through the in-game market anyway.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1218
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:05:00 -
[3718] - Quote
Ana Criid wrote:Crasniya wrote:Jian Mira wrote:I really think we need some new clothes for the Avatar's not much of a selection...
any thoughts? I know they were trying to go with this "unique New Eden style", but realistically, a lot of people would pay good money for some more conventional designs. A good straight-up tuxedo, for example. They can still be space materials, but some of the styles CCP went with are just wacky. You think current EvE style is wacky? Does no one remember what the old avatars looked liked?... there is nothing 'wacky' about 99.9% of our current wardrobe. It's just vaguely futuristic jackets, boots and friggin t-shirts. Current eve clothes are way too conventional already as it is... We need some proper spacey designs. >:P
Yeah the old stuff was true sci fi, anyone remember the Gallente plastic transparent clothing options and the amarr headdresses and veils, not to mention the really striking makeup and tattoo options. They should be working hard at bringing all of that back to the new character generator. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
483
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 18:51:00 -
[3719] - Quote
Those options would be great, sure. But a lot of the AUR-purchased clothes are just outright ugly. Whether they're scifi or not, they'd make more money with a few things that match today's sense of style. |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
110
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 22:34:00 -
[3720] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I vote for "Fighting in stations". Seriously, I think this could take off IF there was more interaction and we separated the avatar aspect from the PLEX aspect. Such as it could be, a player who does not have an active plex could still hang around in a station and stay in touch, but just not have any skill que, or contracts, fly any ships, etc. It would keep those who have to un-sub in contact. It could also help those who don't have time to even fly (it happens) but at the least need some interaction with other "people". On doing that I would then open up MT for Aurum, detaching it from PLEX so those people who are on a downtime in the gaming habits can still play space Barbie at the least but stay in touch with corpies. A clear line between space ship life (PLEX, subs, no "golden ammo", not P2W, no MT, etc) and station life (go ahead with MT but don't require sub or plex to be there) could go a long way and the station side would be monetized as other MMOs are now. If it were up to me (TM) I would be trying to enjoy the best of both worlds. And if you have this "station life" in a separate client then you have a winner imho.
Flamespar wrote:I don't understand why people freak out about micro-transactions so much, since everything that is in the NeX store can be brought for ISK through the in-game market anyway. Because by players for players is better, no? Then of course there is all this indestructible thing.
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Yeah the old stuff was true sci fi, anyone remember the Gallente plastic transparent clothing options and the amarr headdresses and veils, not to mention the really striking makeup and tattoo options. They should be working hard at bringing all of that back to the new character generator. Old stuff was more of a retro-futurism, but all of sudden CCP decided to go all trendy and went with minimalism which is a lot of sci-fi games/movies do nowadays. Sad things really.
Crasniya wrote:Those options would be great, sure. But a lot of the AUR-purchased clothes are just outright ugly. Whether they're scifi or not, they'd make more money with a few things that match today's sense of style. They kind of are "today's sense", one of the dresses is from Dior 2013 winter/autumn collection. |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1223
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 22:57:00 -
[3721] - Quote
I think the incarna clothing items are converted assets from wod, which was designed to attract female gamers by having high fashion clothing options from today's catwalks. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 23:02:00 -
[3722] - Quote
Maybe if WoD ever gets off the ground, they can use a similar sort of engine for public stations- not that we'd be QUITE as supernaturally strong as vampires, but clones could be amped up, I'd guess :P
Plus, a lot of people in stations are just normal humans living there- remember that- we'd still be god-like
And high-intensity fist/knife/gunfights would be AWESOME (albeit taxing on graphics :P) |
Ashlar Vellum
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
110
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:48:00 -
[3723] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I think the incarna clothing items are converted assets from wod, which was designed to attract female gamers by having high fashion clothing options from today's catwalks. I doubt that they are literally converted from wod they did hire Harpa for concepts and most of the clothing we see now in game was done by von Cotta, but thing about high fashion clothing designed to attract female gamers was probably on CCP's mind.
I still wonder if CCP wanted to go with high fashion for capsuleers why they didn't go with crazy cool one like this.
|
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1131
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 06:04:00 -
[3724] - Quote
Not much in the CSM minutes about avatars (or anything else for that matter).
An update to the NeX store, with some possible new racial clothing options and colors, that's about it.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
484
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:57:00 -
[3725] - Quote
Want to see someone completely upstage CCP's beloved character creator?
BOOM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TP4L1vHfpk
As CCP leaves these projects under-maintained, newer, better studios just roll on over every accomplishment they've made. |
Arduemont
The State of War. Vendetta Mercenary Group
3163
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 09:45:00 -
[3726] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Want to see someone completely upstage CCP's beloved character creator? BOOM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TP4L1vHfpkAs CCP leaves these projects under-maintained, newer, better studios just roll on over every accomplishment they've made.
Thank you. I hadn't heard of Black Desert until you linked that. That's going on my list of games to watch. Looks fantastic and unlike a lot of super hyped-games that one is already in open beta (in Korea I think).
Plus, it looks like from a 'Player Created Content' perspective that is has more going for it as well. No instances, one open world (or possibly multiple servers), working housing market with completely customizable unique buildings (completely, as in furnish it however the hell you want), which can be set up as businesses. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
157
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 09:55:00 -
[3727] - Quote
Lots of people treat EVE as the biggest chatclient ever. I did so myself, too.
If they don't have to stay subbed to speak with their mates, they won't resub ever, because there's no need.
CCP would lose money and subscription numbers. |
Commissar Kate
Team Evil
56643
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:54:00 -
[3728] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Not much in the CSM minutes about avatars (or anything else for that matter).
An update to the NeX store, with some possible new racial clothing options and colors, that's about it.
While I liked see that in the CSM minutes it kind of scares me about new racial clothing.
I still want some Gallente clothes for the dirty traitorous Caldari that I am. People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk.
Unlocking All Racial Clothing || My Fanclub |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1291
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 16:25:00 -
[3729] - Quote
For gods sake, that is just a cloth, you cant be traitor just wearing a jacked. And we don't even know, maybe they are all "Made in Minmatar". When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Commissar Kate
Team Evil
56669
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:31:00 -
[3730] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:For gods sake, that is just a cloth, you cant be traitor just wearing a jacked. And we don't even know, maybe they are all "Made in Minmatar".
I know, I just like to troll everyone that wants to keep all that stuff locked to certain races when there is no reason it should not be available to everyone. People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk.
Unlocking All Racial Clothing || My Fanclub |
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Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
487
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 19:46:00 -
[3731] - Quote
People's responses regarding WiS on the CSM Vote Match will be taken into account when I select my ballot for the CSM9 election. I recommend everyone else who's participated in this thread to do the same. (Though not as sole criteria, of course.) |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1253
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 20:14:00 -
[3732] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Want to see someone completely upstage CCP's beloved character creator? BOOM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TP4L1vHfpkAs CCP leaves these projects under-maintained, newer, better studios just roll on over every accomplishment they've made.
That is genuinely awesome. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
755
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 22:57:00 -
[3733] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:People's responses regarding WiS on the CSM Vote Match will be taken into account when I select my ballot for the CSM9 election. I recommend everyone else who's participated in this thread to do the same. (Though not as sole criteria, of course.) Here's an interesting excercise. Go through the candidates for CSM8 and identify any who were pro-WiS. Note how many of them made it to the CSM and then note how much time CCP wasted on WiS content.
A little hint for the last one...it was zero (thankfully).
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1255
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 23:01:00 -
[3734] - Quote
Well I've voted for some pro wis candidates. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Tweek Etimua
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 23:18:00 -
[3735] - Quote
Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.
Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
756
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 23:30:00 -
[3736] - Quote
Tweek Etimua wrote:Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.
Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage. SC isn't an MMORPG.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Tweek Etimua
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 23:54:00 -
[3737] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tweek Etimua wrote:Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.
Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage. SC isn't an MMORPG.
Perhaps, but I think that a lot of the general public sees them competing. Regardless of technical categorizations. |
Themanfromdalmontee
EVE RADIO ARMY
32
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 00:00:00 -
[3738] - Quote
Tweek Etimua wrote:Rhes wrote:Tweek Etimua wrote:Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.
Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage. SC isn't an MMORPG. Perhaps, but I think that a lot of the general public sees them competing. Regardless of technical categorizations.
General public don't play eve. The people I know who have bought SC are gaming tards (one particular person I know plays mmo's solo and rages he can't do end game bosses by himself.) |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
757
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 00:12:00 -
[3739] - Quote
Tweek Etimua wrote:Rhes wrote:Tweek Etimua wrote:Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.
Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage. SC isn't an MMORPG. Perhaps, but I think that a lot of the general public sees them competing. Regardless of technical categorizations. Nope. The only people who are trying to compare the two are delusional roleplayers who can't let go of WiS.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1137
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 00:28:00 -
[3740] - Quote
Just realized that this thread is almost two years old.
Not bad for a feature that apparently no-one wants.
Over to you CCP EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5332
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 00:59:00 -
[3741] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tweek Etimua wrote:Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.
Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage. SC isn't an MMORPG.
In SC people play space pilots and they have the option to play on one universe, be merchants, pirates who gank them and so on.
The first part is RPG, the latter is MMO, together I'd say it's MMORPG enough. Unless you don't consider "MMO" pirates ganking merchants, in which case EvE is not a MMO either.
It'll probably be a sort of SWTOR "single player friendly but you still play in a MMO" gameplay. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
758
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 02:29:00 -
[3742] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Rhes wrote:Tweek Etimua wrote:Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.
Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage. SC isn't an MMORPG. In SC people play space pilots and they have the option to play on one universe, be merchants, pirates who gank them and so on. The first part is RPG, the latter is MMO, together I'd say it's MMORPG enough. Unless you don't consider "MMO" pirates ganking merchants, in which case EvE is not a MMO either. It'll probably be a sort of SWTOR "single player friendly but you still play in a MMO" gameplay. You need to look up what MMO stands for. Especially the first letter.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1310
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 03:10:00 -
[3743] - Quote
I've seen people commenting on unusually high amount of female candidates for this CSM. It seems CCP is going to test certain content on them. WiS maybe? I cannot imagine any other content within EVE which could be taken by male and female players differently. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
761
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:03:00 -
[3744] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:I've seen people commenting on unusually high amount of female candidates for this CSM. It seems CCP is going to test certain content on them. WiS maybe? I cannot imagine any other content within EVE which could be taken by male and female players differently. Well that's sexist.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4558
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:07:00 -
[3745] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tarpedo wrote:I've seen people commenting on unusually high amount of female candidates for this CSM. It seems CCP is going to test certain content on them. WiS maybe? I cannot imagine any other content within EVE which could be taken by male and female players differently. Well that's sexist.
Stupid, too. Everyone knows walking in stations is dead. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1137
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 10:58:00 -
[3746] - Quote
Who are the pro WiS candidates? EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
493
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 15:25:00 -
[3747] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tweek Etimua wrote:Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.
Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage. SC isn't an MMORPG.
Actually, a persistent MMO universe is one of the many promises of SC. (Along with being single player and allowing private servers as well. Never said their promises were realistic.)
Flamespar wrote:Who are the pro WiS candidates?
A very large number of them, actually, sixteen candidates according to the vote match want WiS if it has "meaningful gameplay". That's a full ballot right there.
http://match.eve-csm.com/ |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1259
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 16:24:00 -
[3748] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tarpedo wrote:I've seen people commenting on unusually high amount of female candidates for this CSM. It seems CCP is going to test certain content on them. WiS maybe? I cannot imagine any other content within EVE which could be taken by male and female players differently. Well that's sexist.
for once I agree with you. The CSM should reflect the nature of the playerbase.
I personally believe though that support for WIS is widespread and demand will increase as time moves on.
It's inevitable that one day WIS will become part of the eve universe Rhes.
The way things are going though it might involve an occulus rift. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
764
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 17:35:00 -
[3749] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:It's inevitable that one day WIS will become part of the eve universe Rhes. It's already there. Dock up and enjoy walking around (very slowly) in the station!
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1311
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 18:58:00 -
[3750] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Who are the pro WiS candidates? I'd say zero - because none of them reflected it in their "shortlists". It seems they've used WiS only as a keyword(s). |
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Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
496
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 19:16:00 -
[3751] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:Flamespar wrote:Who are the pro WiS candidates? I'd say zero - because none of them reflected it in their "shortlists". It seems they've used WiS only as a keyword(s).
Bear in mind, shortlisting WiS in many respects is a way to ensure you don't get elected. So a votematch support for it's development, with a comment about it, is probably pretty high praise, comparatively. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5335
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 19:23:00 -
[3752] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Rhes wrote:Tweek Etimua wrote:Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.
Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage. SC isn't an MMORPG. In SC people play space pilots and they have the option to play on one universe, be merchants, pirates who gank them and so on. The first part is RPG, the latter is MMO, together I'd say it's MMORPG enough. Unless you don't consider "MMO" pirates ganking merchants, in which case EvE is not a MMO either. It'll probably be a sort of SWTOR "single player friendly but you still play in a MMO" gameplay. You need to look up what MMO stands for. Especially the first letter.
SC has currently 407k or so backers, which is as close to "subs" as it gets.
You'd say: "well, that's not a lot"!
Then I remind you how EvE, after 10+ years, is about at the same numbers.
Then I remind you how MMOs like Istaria / WAR online have 4-5k subs yet they are / were called MMOs.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4329
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 19:32:00 -
[3753] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Rhes wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Rhes wrote:Tweek Etimua wrote:Well if your going to compete with SC I think you're going to have to do something. But what ever you do it has to be HUGE.
Unfortunately I doubt the player base will allow it. I refer to the summer of rage. SC isn't an MMORPG. In SC people play space pilots and they have the option to play on one universe, be merchants, pirates who gank them and so on. The first part is RPG, the latter is MMO, together I'd say it's MMORPG enough. Unless you don't consider "MMO" pirates ganking merchants, in which case EvE is not a MMO either. It'll probably be a sort of SWTOR "single player friendly but you still play in a MMO" gameplay. You need to look up what MMO stands for. Especially the first letter. SC has currently 407k or so backers, which is as close to "subs" as it gets. You'd say: "well, that's not a lot"! Then I remind you how EvE, after 10+ years, is about at the same numbers. Then I remind you how MMOs like Istaria / WAR online have 4-5k subs yet they are / were called MMOs.
Bernie Maddoff also made a lot of promises and had a lot of backers/investors too. But you know what Bernie and SC really have in common?
Neither one has yet to produce a game I can actually play.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5335
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 21:11:00 -
[3754] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:
Bernie Maddoff also made a lot of promises and had a lot of backers/investors too. But you know what Bernie and SC really have in common?
Neither one has yet to produce a game I can actually play.
Yeah a 40M project has certainly to be delivered *well polished* by 1 year, like all the MMOs ever produced!
Oh wait, they always take 2-3 years at a minimum and come PAX they should showcase the dogfight module.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
648
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 21:15:00 -
[3755] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
Bernie Maddoff also made a lot of promises and had a lot of backers/investors too. But you know what Bernie and SC really have in common?
Neither one has yet to produce a game I can actually play.
Yeah a 40M project has certainly to be delivered *well polished* by 1 year, like all the MMOs ever produced! Oh wait, they always take 2-3 years at a minimum and come PAX they should showcase the dogfight module.
yep mid 2015 alpha of game world at best ...but stuff do look nasty good in SC development HUD is gonna be killer imo. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4332
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 21:15:00 -
[3756] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
Bernie Maddoff also made a lot of promises and had a lot of backers/investors too. But you know what Bernie and SC really have in common?
Neither one has yet to produce a game I can actually play.
Yeah a 40M project has certainly to be delivered *well polished* by 1 year, like all the MMOs ever produced! Oh wait, they always take 2-3 years at a minimum and come PAX they should showcase the dogfight module.
Thanks for making my point!
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1261
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 21:52:00 -
[3757] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:It's inevitable that one day WIS will become part of the eve universe Rhes. It's already there. Dock up and enjoy walking around (very slowly) in the station!
That's why I'd like to see it completed, it's no different to wanting to see sov revised as it's already in the game. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5336
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 13:55:00 -
[3758] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
Bernie Maddoff also made a lot of promises and had a lot of backers/investors too. But you know what Bernie and SC really have in common?
Neither one has yet to produce a game I can actually play.
Yeah a 40M project has certainly to be delivered *well polished* by 1 year, like all the MMOs ever produced! Oh wait, they always take 2-3 years at a minimum and come PAX they should showcase the dogfight module. Thanks for making my point!
Your point mentioned Bernie Madoff, which is a bit different than taking 2-3 years to code a game. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Zheng He-Da
Industria Traho Incorporated
22
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 14:49:00 -
[3759] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Anslo wrote:So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us? How in himmelsname did you get to that? Well the door needs unlocked to go get the EVA suit?....I just want non-spaceshippy sci fi gameplay sprinkled with the spaceship gameplay. This isn't supposed to be space ship only. Eve set out to be the world's largest and greatest SCIENCE FICTION SIMULATOR, not just a spaceship simulator. Except ships have a speed limit, and handle like space has viscosity of motor oil |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4349
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 15:16:00 -
[3760] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
Bernie Maddoff also made a lot of promises and had a lot of backers/investors too. But you know what Bernie and SC really have in common?
Neither one has yet to produce a game I can actually play.
Yeah a 40M project has certainly to be delivered *well polished* by 1 year, like all the MMOs ever produced! Oh wait, they always take 2-3 years at a minimum and come PAX they should showcase the dogfight module. Thanks for making my point! Your point mentioned Bernie Madoff, which is a bit different than taking 2-3 years to code a game.
You are correct, Bernie's name was mentioned, but that was not the point. Selective reading comprehension for the win! I bolded the relevant bits for you. (I know... reading is HARD).
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
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Catherine Wolfisheim
Terran Republican Guard
223
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 16:21:00 -
[3761] - Quote
Okay, this thread is quite huge... And confusing... So, can someone tell me simply... What happened to the whole nice ideas that were said at the introduction of Team Avatar? ~ C.W.
G£¬ Personal Blog http://catherine-wolfisheim.tumblr.com |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1297
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 16:48:00 -
[3762] - Quote
They have stayed in prototype phase. Now probably not relevant to a whole bunch of SC backers or EVE "spaceships are the future" persons. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
501
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 17:11:00 -
[3763] - Quote
Catherine Wolfisheim wrote:Okay, this thread is quite huge... And confusing... So, can someone tell me simply... What happened to the whole nice ideas that were said at the introduction of Team Avatar?
CCP did a prototype, and then decided not to develop it, and disbanded Team Avatar. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
766
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 18:46:00 -
[3764] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:It's inevitable that one day WIS will become part of the eve universe Rhes. It's already there. Dock up and enjoy walking around (very slowly) in the station! That's why I'd like to see it completed, it's no different to wanting to see sov revised as it's already in the game. The sov system is actually broken. Unless your characters' legs no longer propel you around your captain's quarters WiS is working.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5336
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 20:57:00 -
[3765] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Doc Fury wrote:
Bernie Maddoff also made a lot of promises and had a lot of backers/investors too. But you know what Bernie and SC really have in common?
Neither one has yet to produce a game I can actually play.
Yeah a 40M project has certainly to be delivered *well polished* by 1 year, like all the MMOs ever produced! Oh wait, they always take 2-3 years at a minimum and come PAX they should showcase the dogfight module. Thanks for making my point! Your point mentioned Bernie Madoff, which is a bit different than taking 2-3 years to code a game. You are correct, Bernie's name was mentioned, but that was not the point. Selective reading comprehension for the win! I bolded the relevant bits for you. (I know... reading is HARD).
I selectively read, when people selectively hint. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1315
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 16:13:00 -
[3766] - Quote
World of Darkness is dead officially. Like -10% of CCP's total workforce are fired and I guess that will release approximately half of CCP's R&D budget.
Perhaps we have a chance to see actual EVE expansion couple years later - maybe even WiS expansion. |
Teinyhr
Venlith Taal
392
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 17:21:00 -
[3767] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:Perhaps we have a chance to see actual EVE expansion couple years later - maybe even WiS expansion (some of WoD devs will continue to work for CCP)
There once this guy right, he said he had a dream right... Well, just saying I consider this very unlikely. CCP's pretty clearly shown they don't give a **** about WiS (except for marketing purposes) and won't iterate on it in the next 5 years at least. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
3164
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 17:41:00 -
[3768] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:World of Darkness is dead officially. Like -10% of CCP's total workforce are fired and I guess that will release approximately half of CCP's R&D budget. Perhaps we have a chance to see actual EVE expansion couple years later - maybe even WiS expansion (some of WoD devs will continue to work for CCP)
Yea, I saw that. Really disappointing. I'm going to drop my subs. Not specifically because of this but I've just lost my faith in CCP's ability in general. I might resub every couple of expansions to see what's what but that's about it. It's not like i've actually been playing the last couple of months anyway. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven
51
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 17:45:00 -
[3769] - Quote
Indeed, The EVE Universe is there, we are just exploring and opening more and more within it. I am so excited |
Broker Agent
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:00:00 -
[3770] - Quote
I actually cancelled my sub a little while ago. That announcement just made me more secure in my decision. |
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4448
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:06:00 -
[3771] - Quote
To any of you un-subbing over this wonderful development, can I have your stuffs?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
3165
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:21:00 -
[3772] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:To any of you un-subbing over this wonderful development, can I have your stuffs?
I'm not un-subbing because of this really... I'm just bored. I've played Eve with a continuous sub for more than 5 years. It just doesn't hold my interest any more. I just needed an excuse and reading that gave me the excuse.
Also no, you can't have my stuff. Can't blame you for trying though. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4451
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:59:00 -
[3773] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Doc Fury wrote:To any of you un-subbing over this wonderful development, can I have your stuffs?
I'm not un-subbing because of this really... I'm just bored. I've played Eve with a continuous sub for more than 5 years. It just doesn't hold my interest any more. I just needed an excuse and reading that gave me the excuse. Also no, you can't have my stuff. Can't blame you for trying though.
I take an extended break 1-2 times a year, I recommend this to anyone who has been playing more than a couple years.
It's a great time to do it too, summer is coming, the trees are blooming, and the wimmenz are starting to wear less and less.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
1052
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 19:15:00 -
[3774] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: I take an extended break 1-2 times a year, I recommend this to anyone who has been playing more than a couple years.
This, really, every time you get a feeling that "you should log into EvE to do X", take a break.
Doc Fury wrote: It's a great time to do it too, summer is coming, the trees are blooming, and the wimmenz are starting to wear less and less again.
Wait a month and come to Stockholm ... ;)
Vote for Fuzzy Steve! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322
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Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
507
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 19:24:00 -
[3775] - Quote
I'm really hoping maybe a few of the former WoD employees might be tasked to work on WiS, but I think it's probably unlikely still, unfortunately. |
Arduemont
The State of War.
3166
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 19:40:00 -
[3776] - Quote
I guess now is a good time to take a break. Average active player numbers are the lowest they have been in two years and still falling.
As for hoping the guys from WoD team will move over to Eve and then work on WiS. Don't even think about it, they laid off all 56 of them.
Looks to me like CCP isn't in a very good state frankly. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf |
Kuronaga
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
223
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 19:54:00 -
[3777] - Quote
Give me decent WiS PvE/Social content, move Dust to PS4 so it actually has a chance on a system that isn't crippling its potential, add deadspace/suborbital areas for Valkyrie pilots to fight in which ties into existing planetary conquest/Sov engagements... and yea, I could see those sub numbers rising again.
Game is currently what it has always been. It's been getting more of what it's always gotten which is no bad thing, but isn't enough. Time for some brave new strides. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1286
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 21:07:00 -
[3778] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:It's inevitable that one day WIS will become part of the eve universe Rhes. It's already there. Dock up and enjoy walking around (very slowly) in the station! That's why I'd like to see it completed, it's no different to wanting to see sov revised as it's already in the game. The sov system is actually broken. Unless your characters' legs no longer propel you around your captain's quarters WiS is working.
It does not look broken to me, it's simply a popular conceit. I think sov is fine and personally I have no need of it, so from now I would advise ccp not to bother replacing it. Sov is not eve. Eve is about people, avatars are the future, planting flags on star systems is working fine, just ask the goons, it's working well for them. The space game is finished, the avatar game started with cq needs finishing.
Htfu etc. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1287
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 22:06:00 -
[3779] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I guess now is a good time to take a break. Average active player numbers are almost the lowest they have been in two years and still falling.
As for hoping the guys from WoD team will move over to Eve and then work on WiS. Don't even think about it, they laid off all 56 of them.
Looks to me like CCP isn't in a very good state frankly.
Personally I think that ccp are cleaning the balance sheet ready for a take over. I would bet that they've been approached by EA, as they've taken on ea staff and have gone balls out to raise revenue with plex for everything. I think hilmar is sick of eve as he's never been the same since the fallout from the greed is good memo. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1140
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 02:12:00 -
[3780] - Quote
Can CCP actually deliver anything?
Except hype of course EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
|
Space Juden
Supermassive Potato Pancake
79
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 02:25:00 -
[3781] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Can CCP actually deliver anything?
Except hype of course
They were good at delivering half-finished content then forgetting about it, now that they're into delivering fully finished content there doesn't seem to be much of it |
Kuronaga
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
223
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 04:24:00 -
[3782] - Quote
Just imagine the content we might have had if those 56 employees were actually working on relevant stuff this entire time.
Of course its not like anyone had the foresight to tell CCP that WoD was vaporware, you know, every day since forever. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
826
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 21:17:00 -
[3783] - Quote
I've been seeing a lot of sad roleplayers and WiS fetishists opening threads in GD and they all end up getting locked so I'm bumping this thread to remind everybody that this is the only approved ghetto for all your WiS badposting. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
695
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 21:23:00 -
[3784] - Quote
Broker Agent wrote:I actually cancelled my sub a little while ago. That announcement just made me more secure in my decision. 10/10
Would bang in CQ. "My Favourite Nerdling GÖÑ" - Marsha Mellow
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2581
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 21:25:00 -
[3785] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Broker Agent wrote:I actually cancelled my sub a little while ago. That announcement just made me more secure in my decision. 10/10 Would bang in CQ.
Are you at it again?
You ok hon? Aaaaaaand relax. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
695
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 21:37:00 -
[3786] - Quote
Rhes wrote:I've been seeing a lot of sad roleplayers and WiS fetishists opening threads in GD and they all end up getting locked so I'm bumping this thread to remind everybody that this is the only approved ghetto for all your WiS badposting. You know...........
Looking at your portrait, it seems obvious that you played around with it. You express more emotional content in your face than many of those who want WiS to happen.
That's quite interesting, actually. I doubt that you got this look right at the first time and I also doubt that it is just a random choice, given the specificness of your expression.
You made that face on purpose. Even the beard shows that you put actual thought behind it.
You do enjoy the abilities of the character creator, whicb makes me assume that you are rather unhappy with seeing all these faces that in no way or form express the same enjoyment for it as you do.
I COULD believe that the reason for your constant bashing against these people is that you actually wanted WiS to happen, but now deny it yourself because of the honestly gigantic disappointment CCP hay created.
Personally, I completely agree with parts of what you say, but also with parts of what others say.
I believe that YOU would actually be a great player in a WiS environment, simply because of your ability to make a character that's not like the crap most of these wannabe avatar fans create.
I would rather have YOU sit in a virtual bar next to me, than most of these people who say that they want avatar gameplay, but are completely unable to recreate actual emotional expressions in their faces.
These people are creepy. You are not.
So despite your display of opposition, I am actually fairly sure that you would enjoy the environment, as long as it has not to be shared with... these people.
Understand this however you want. It's an observation and there is no illwill towards you. "My Favourite Nerdling GÖÑ" - Marsha Mellow
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1316
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 21:40:00 -
[3787] - Quote
Rhes wrote:I've been seeing a lot of sad roleplayers and WiS fetishists opening threads in GD and they all end up getting locked so I'm bumping this thread to remind everybody that this is the only approved ghetto for all your WiS badposting.
I've been seeing a lot of sad nullbears and sov fetishists opening threads in F&I and they all end up getting locked so I'm bumping this thread to remind people that sov is dead and the space side of eve is finished and avatar expansions are not too far away in the future.
We'll see them sooner than changes to sov, that's all I know. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
696
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 22:04:00 -
[3788] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Rhes wrote:I've been seeing a lot of sad roleplayers and WiS fetishists opening threads in GD and they all end up getting locked so I'm bumping this thread to remind everybody that this is the only approved ghetto for all your WiS badposting. I've been seeing a lot of sad nullbears and sov fetishists opening threads in F&I and they all end up getting locked so I'm bumping this thread to remind people that sov is dead and the space side of eve is finished and avatar expansions are not too far away in the future. We'll see them sooner than changes to sov, that's all I know. But he is more connected to reality, with less wishfull thinking.
Null is getting buffed and iterated on while WiS or anything related to it... ... well... not so much. Sov... well... that's a dead horse.
The smartest thing for CCP is to wait until the issue has resolved itself, which will happen all by itself. The solution to the sov problem comes shen the CFC owns all of nullsec and any opposition can and will be crushed.
That's the best time when CCP can make changes, with NewSpace and player built stargates in mind.
I know my post sounds like I am opposing you, but that's not my intention. I am merely trying to tell you that his game is actually getting worked on, with a chance of success. WiS otoh.... nope. None. Null. Nada. Gar nichts. "My Favourite Nerdling GÖÑ" - Marsha Mellow
|
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1152
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 03:58:00 -
[3789] - Quote
Hopefully they utilize the tech developed by the WoD team to open the stations. It would be a shame for all that work to go to waste. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
354
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 04:12:00 -
[3790] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Hopefully they utilize the tech developed by the WoD team to open the stations. It would be a shame for all that work to go to waste. You're assuming the WoD team got anything accomplished.
The fact that so many resources can go into a project with pretty much zero proof there was even a project to begin with is mind numbing. In fact, who says there really was a project called WoD? CCP? hmm makes you wonder where that money really went doesn't it?
Seriously, where's the proof? |
|
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1153
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 04:18:00 -
[3791] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Flamespar wrote:Hopefully they utilize the tech developed by the WoD team to open the stations. It would be a shame for all that work to go to waste. You're assuming the WoD team got anything accomplished. The fact that so many resources can go into a project with pretty much zero proof there was even a project to begin with is mind numbing. In fact, who says there really was a project called WoD? CCP? hmm makes you wonder where that money really went doesn't it? Seriously, where's the proof?
There is a fair bit. There have been a couple videos of their world building tools (that were going to allow them to build huge cities), and the effects they could apply (rain on surfaces). It was looking pretty impressive. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
354
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 05:38:00 -
[3792] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Soulpirate wrote:Flamespar wrote:Hopefully they utilize the tech developed by the WoD team to open the stations. It would be a shame for all that work to go to waste. You're assuming the WoD team got anything accomplished. The fact that so many resources can go into a project with pretty much zero proof there was even a project to begin with is mind numbing. In fact, who says there really was a project called WoD? CCP? hmm makes you wonder where that money really went doesn't it? Seriously, where's the proof? There is a fair bit. There have been a couple videos of their world building tools (that were going to allow them to build huge cities), and the effects they could apply (rain on surfaces). It was looking pretty impressive.
Links?
Please add links to the game play demos too please. I mean how many years did they work on it? 8 years?? Surely there must be loads of vids and screenshots by now.
8 effing years and nothing... classic.
I wonder where the money REALLY went.
|
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1158
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 09:58:00 -
[3793] - Quote
Look up the recording of the WoD presentation from last years fanfest on YouTube. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1589
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 10:14:00 -
[3794] - Quote
Is this officially the longest and oldest thread still alive? :) I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1158
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 10:21:00 -
[3795] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Is this officially the longest and oldest thread still alive? :)
Not bad for a feature that "no-one wants" EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
717
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 10:48:00 -
[3796] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Is this officially the longest and oldest thread still alive? :) Not bad for a feature that "no-one wants" Not really.
A barrel with a note 'drop a coin inside' will eventually fill up too.
Actually, the longer it takes, the less importance it has.
Yes, I am aware that this forum barrel has no upper limit, but it's by far not as full as it could be.
"My Favourite Nerdling GÖÑ" - Marsha Mellow
|
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1429
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 10:51:00 -
[3797] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Hopefully they utilize the tech developed by the WoD team to open the stations. It would be a shame for all that work to go to waste.
lol.
The CCP that once was able to accomplish that is gone, dead & buried or moved over to another company. They're not even able to allocate dev time to reward their longest playing players with a 'simple' station within a years time, what makes you think they can pull anything beyond that off?
|
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1590
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 11:04:00 -
[3798] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Flamespar wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Is this officially the longest and oldest thread still alive? :) Not bad for a feature that "no-one wants" Not really. A barrel with a note 'drop a coin inside' will eventually fill up too. Actually, the longer it takes, the less importance it has. Yes, I am aware that this forum barrel has no upper limit, but it's by far not as full as it could be.
Well, this thread had quite a momentum when it got created. With time people got tired of basically writing to themselves because decisions were already made even before CCP Bayesian posted OP. And the fact that virtually no dev got involved in here didn't help either.
CCP is not in business of getting things done, not even things they promise during recent PLEX sponsored Fanfest HD streams so how one could expect to get features hyped years ago. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
718
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 11:09:00 -
[3799] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Flamespar wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Is this officially the longest and oldest thread still alive? :) Not bad for a feature that "no-one wants" Not really. A barrel with a note 'drop a coin inside' will eventually fill up too. Actually, the longer it takes, the less importance it has. Yes, I am aware that this forum barrel has no upper limit, but it's by far not as full as it could be. Well, this thread had quite a momentum when it got created. With time people got tired of basically writing to themselves because decisions were already made even before CCP Bayesian posted OP. And the fact that virtually no dev got involved in here didn't help either. CCP is not in business of getting things done, not even things they promise during recent PLEX sponsored Fanfest HD streams so how one could expect to get features hyped years ago. This thread simply serves as a barrel to shut up the people who care. Shut up, as in keeping them contained somewhere so they don't make a huge fuzz annoying everybody.
When people have the possibility to express their feelings they will most likely not explode. "My Favourite Nerdling GÖÑ" - Marsha Mellow
|
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1590
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 11:27:00 -
[3800] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:This thread simply serves as a barrel to shut up the people who care. Shut up, as in keeping them contained somewhere so they don't make a huge fuzz annoying everybody.
When people have the possibility to express their feelings they will most likely not explode.
Something RL tyrants could learn from CCP :) I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
|
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
720
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 11:38:00 -
[3801] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Solecist Project wrote:This thread simply serves as a barrel to shut up the people who care. Shut up, as in keeping them contained somewhere so they don't make a huge fuzz annoying everybody.
When people have the possibility to express their feelings they will most likely not explode. Something RL tyrants could learn from CCP :) This technique is well known and used.
It can be observed in the best selling newspaper in the word, at least relative to the amount of citizens, (you can look that up) the "Kronen Zeitung" in Austria.
Basically any time people get a forum to express themselves about things that bother them, it's for this purpose.
Can backfire, but rarely does. People rather delude themselves in believing that their opinions matter and have some sort of importance.
Btw, this isn't used by tyrants. They have no use for that anymore.
Understand that allowing people to have opinions and allowing them to express them are controll mechanisms and not a natural right or something. Something many people don't seem to want to understand, because it undermines their illusionary self importance.
We should drop this topic, because rl politics aren't allowed on the forums. "My Favourite Nerdling GÖÑ" - Marsha Mellow
|
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1590
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 11:45:00 -
[3802] - Quote
You are right, let's not derail this perfectly focused thread with RL politics.
"Kronung Zeitung" you say? If anything I would suspect "+ûsterreich" although it is free so I guess it wouldn't qualify. But that quality of "news", nomnomnom... :) I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
721
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 11:55:00 -
[3803] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:You are right, let's not derail this perfectly focused thread with RL politics.
"Kronen Zeitung" you say? If anything I would suspect "+ûsterreich" although it is free so I guess it wouldn't qualify. But that quality of "news", nomnomnom... :) The +ûsterreich isn't free. That's the Heute.
Kronen Zeitung was indeed the best one, probably still is.
Quality is equal... they all suck. Just differently. "My Favourite Nerdling GÖÑ" - Marsha Mellow
|
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1590
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 12:09:00 -
[3804] - Quote
I am pretty sure I saw both titles distributed for free at u-bahn stations. Or maybe it was in fact only Heute and I just saw +ûsterreich on my co-workers' desks and just assumed they had to get it for free because nobody would pay for such sh!t. Well, I will be in Vienna in 2 months for a few days so I will check it out.
This is how exciting my life is!
Gimme WiS so I could make my space dolls dance! I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion League of Infamy
1159
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 12:14:00 -
[3805] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Flamespar wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Is this officially the longest and oldest thread still alive? :) Not bad for a feature that "no-one wants" Not really. A barrel with a note 'drop a coin inside' will eventually fill up too. Actually, the longer it takes, the less importance it has. Yes, I am aware that this forum barrel has no upper limit, but it's by far not as full as it could be.
Oh please. We can draw upon any idiotic sayings to justify any argument with substance.
For example. The empty vessel makes the loudest noise. is a fun way of referring to null sec players. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1590
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 12:32:00 -
[3806] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:For example. The empty vessel makes the loudest noise. is a fun way of referring to null sec players.
Bueheheheheh, you Sir just made me laugh. +1 intertubez like for ya. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
1682
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 13:14:00 -
[3807] - Quote
Give me a shotty, and open my door to 4-4, and I will be happy.
Thank you, Team Avatar.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
728
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 13:21:00 -
[3808] - Quote
*sips coffee* "My Favourite Nerdling GÖÑ" - Marsha Mellow
|
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
1682
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 13:22:00 -
[3809] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:*sips coffee*
I'm gonna cut you. Stop.
I don't know how you did it.
The timer is killing me. Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
730
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 13:28:00 -
[3810] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Solecist Project wrote:*sips coffee* I'm gonna cut you. Stop. I don't know how you did it. The timer is killing me. *stirs coffee with spoon*
What timer? "My Favourite Nerdling GÖÑ" - Marsha Mellow
|
|
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
1688
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 13:38:00 -
[3811] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:KnowUsByTheDead wrote:Solecist Project wrote:*sips coffee* I'm gonna cut you. Stop. I don't know how you did it. The timer is killing me. *stirs coffee with spoon* What timer?
Smh. Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
Beofryn Sedorak
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 19:49:00 -
[3812] - Quote
Is this the protoype this team was working on?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajnxq65D220&feature=youtu.be&t=8m36s |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1343
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 21:02:00 -
[3813] - Quote
Yes, link to that was provided somewhere here, many pages ago... When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1319
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 23:02:00 -
[3814] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Rhes wrote:I've been seeing a lot of sad roleplayers and WiS fetishists opening threads in GD and they all end up getting locked so I'm bumping this thread to remind everybody that this is the only approved ghetto for all your WiS badposting. I've been seeing a lot of sad nullbears and sov fetishists opening threads in F&I and they all end up getting locked so I'm bumping this thread to remind people that sov is dead and the space side of eve is finished and avatar expansions are not too far away in the future. We'll see them sooner than changes to sov, that's all I know. But he is more connected to reality, with less wishfull thinking. Null is getting buffed and iterated on while WiS or anything related to it... ... well... not so much. Sov... well... that's a dead horse. The smartest thing for CCP is to wait until the issue has resolved itself,8 which will happen all by itself. The solution to the sov problem comes shen the CFC owns all of nullsec and any opposition can and will be crushed. That's the best time when CCP can make changes, with NewSpace and player built stargates in mind. I know my post sounds like I am opposing you, but that's not my intention. I am merely trying to tell you that his game is actually getting worked on, with a chance of success. WiS otoh.... nope. None. Null. Nada. Gar nichts.
I was just parroting Rhes words as he's anti wis and comes here to troll, he has nothing constructive to say for or against wis, and likes to portray himself as a null bear. I was making the point that sov is not that high on the agenda for CCP and I don't particularly care for it, he frequently points out that his play style is somehow superior to anyone else's and as such is the one true eve. He fails to grasp that other play styles do not exist in isolation and serve to support his play style as null bears need industry, trade and intel just like everyone else.
Why should anyone's fun be more valid than someone else's? that's what he doesn't get.
All in all though I think you made very good points, fairly in a good post, which is something Rhes could learn from.
Good post and good points.
I was just parroting Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
829
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 23:31:00 -
[3815] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Why should anyone's fun be more valid than someone else's? that's what he doesn't get. When international news organizations start writing stories about what roleplayers and dress-up fetishists are doing in Eve you'll have an argument to make.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1630
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 23:35:00 -
[3816] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Why should anyone's fun be more valid than someone else's? that's what he doesn't get. When international news organizations start writing stories about what roleplayers and dress-up fetishists are doing in Eve you'll have an argument to make. To be fair, it's not that uncommon for fetishists and roleplayers to make international news. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
829
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 00:00:00 -
[3817] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Why should anyone's fun be more valid than someone else's? that's what he doesn't get. When international news organizations start writing stories about what roleplayers and dress-up fetishists are doing in Eve you'll have an argument to make. To be fair, it's not that uncommon for fetishists and roleplayers to make international news. I doubt CCP wants that kind of publicity.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1109
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 01:43:00 -
[3818] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Why should anyone's fun be more valid than someone else's? that's what he doesn't get. When international news organizations start writing stories about what roleplayers and dress-up fetishists are doing in Eve you'll have an argument to make.
Nothing anywhere requires that one's play style be validated in the international press.
As one Senator told a newly elected peer, you have a choice: you can be a show horse, or a work horse. Or, since it's a game, you can just log in and do your little thing in your little corner of space and not give two ****s if Fox News never calls. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
829
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 03:49:00 -
[3819] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Nothing anywhere requires that one's play style be validated in the international press. No but it sure helps CCP focus on what's important.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1636
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 03:54:00 -
[3820] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Nothing anywhere requires that one's play style be validated in the international press. No but it sure helps CCP focus on what's important. How's that sov revamp coming? |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
829
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 04:05:00 -
[3821] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Rhes wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Nothing anywhere requires that one's play style be validated in the international press. No but it sure helps CCP focus on what's important. How's that sov revamp coming? It will arrive long before any further WiS content. CCP learned their lesson.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion
1165
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 04:56:00 -
[3822] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Rhes wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Nothing anywhere requires that one's play style be validated in the international press. No but it sure helps CCP focus on what's important. How's that sov revamp coming?
Haven't you seen the two year old threadnaught where players from all across EVE voice their interest in a SOV revamp.
Oh that's right. There isn't one. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
829
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 05:26:00 -
[3823] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Rhes wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Nothing anywhere requires that one's play style be validated in the international press. No but it sure helps CCP focus on what's important. How's that sov revamp coming? Haven't you seen the two year old threadnaught where players from all across EVE voice their interest in a SOV revamp. Oh that's right. There isn't one. Why would we waste our time on a thread like this one (lol) when we can stack the CSM with our people? EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion
1166
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 06:17:00 -
[3824] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote: Links?
Please add links to the game play demos too please. I mean how many years did they work on it? 8 years?? Surely there must be loads of vids and screenshots by now.
8 effing years and nothing... classic.
I wonder where the money REALLY went.
Came across the video of the WoD graphics tech EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1329
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 07:49:00 -
[3825] - Quote
That video is a good example of CCP's business practices: a game/feature is on fanfest to attract attention, next year - shutdown. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1650
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 22:26:00 -
[3826] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Why would we waste our time on a thread like this one (lol)
And yet, here you are. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1168
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 07:28:00 -
[3827] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:That video show CCP's methods in a nutshell: 7 years of development, a game/feature is on fanfest to attract attention, next year - shutdown. There must be minimal competition on sci-fi MMO market if company may survive with business practices like that. (+ lately I expect good games only from Korean devs, western MMO industry is in state of decay with its love to cheapest/ugly content and huge marketing budgets)
It's a shame. That's a lot of money that has been thrown out the door with no result.
Good thing that more and more EVE players are asking for avatar content though. It'll be interesting to see what happens. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Kudos12345
Republic University Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 11:50:00 -
[3828] - Quote
Well I hope CCP refocuses on this part of game play. |
Pirmasis Sparagas
Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn
65
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 12:29:00 -
[3829] - Quote
I hope now Atlanta with WoD developers could focus and work on WiS and connection between EVE, DUST and Valkyrie. What would be the most logical thing that comes to my head |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
829
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 14:55:00 -
[3830] - Quote
Pirmasis Sparagas wrote:I hope now Atlanta with WoD developers could focus and work on WiS and connection between EVE, DUST and Valkyrie. What would be the most logical thing that comes to my head They were all laid off.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4901
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 15:13:00 -
[3831] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Pirmasis Sparagas wrote:I hope now Atlanta with WoD developers could focus and work on WiS and connection between EVE, DUST and Valkyrie. What would be the most logical thing that comes to my head They were all laid off nerfed.
FYP
We would have also accepted: succumbed to the True Death.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
151
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 16:46:00 -
[3832] - Quote
Flamespar wrote: Haven't you seen the two year old threadnaught where players from all across EVE voice their interest in a SOV revamp.
Oh that's right. There isn't one.
+1 You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies? |
Beofryn Sedorak
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 17:16:00 -
[3833] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Flamespar wrote: Haven't you seen the two year old threadnaught where players from all across EVE voice their interest in a SOV revamp.
Oh that's right. There isn't one.
+1
+2 |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1328
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 21:15:00 -
[3834] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Silent Rambo wrote:Flamespar wrote: Haven't you seen the two year old threadnaught where players from all across EVE voice their interest in a SOV revamp.
Oh that's right. There isn't one.
+1 +2
Sov is dead, there will be no rework.
at best it will be replaced with deployable modules that confer some type of Sov, but that's it. I don't blame CCP though for going with the cheapest option for null sec as we're talking about a tiny minority of players who actually have an interest in sov. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Silent Rambo
Legion of Seven
154
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 00:16:00 -
[3835] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote: Sov is dead, there will be no rework.
at best it will be replaced with deployable modules that confer some type of Sov, but that's it. I don't blame CCP though for going with the cheapest option for null sec as we're talking about a tiny minority of players who actually have an interest in sov.
The only way to increase the interest in it is to fix it so smaller groups can take systems. I also wouldn't say around 1/5 of the player base to be small. It will be iterated on, but probably not fixed immediately. You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies? |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
1920
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:23:00 -
[3836] - Quote
Silent Rambo wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: Sov is dead, there will be no rework.
at best it will be replaced with deployable modules that confer some type of Sov, but that's it. I don't blame CCP though for going with the cheapest option for null sec as we're talking about a tiny minority of players who actually have an interest in sov.
The only way to increase the interest in it is to fix it so smaller groups can take systems. I also wouldn't say around 1/5 of the player base to be small. It will be iterated on, but probably not fixed immediately. Well yeah I agree in general, it's something that needs to be worked on, SOV and POS etc. Also with concerns to FW too (which has improved much), not just nul. I can't see WiS ever being accepted by the majority of players until CCP finishes what they set out to do in regards to fixing this game. Adding lots more stuff just slows down that goal. People think it's somehow a popular idea now just because the majority of players don't bother to discuss it any longer, to object so much... to an old warn out topic really dead and buried for all intents and purposes. But who knows what the future will bring, but now it's the same as the past couple years, getting the mess cleaned up. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
836
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 03:57:00 -
[3837] - Quote
Webvan wrote:I can't see WiS ever being accepted by the majority of players until CCP finishes what they set out to do in regards to fixing this game. Adding lots more stuff just slows down that goal. People think it's somehow a popular idea now just because the majority of players don't bother to discuss it any longer, to object so much... to an old warn out topic really dead and buried for all intents and purposes. This guy gets it.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
524
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 09:22:00 -
[3838] - Quote
Webvan wrote:I can't see WiS ever being accepted by the majority of players until CCP finishes what they set out to do in regards to fixing this game. Adding lots more stuff just slows down that goal. People think it's somehow a popular idea now just because the majority of players don't bother to discuss it any longer, to object so much... to an old warn out topic really dead and buried for all intents and purposes. But who knows what the future will bring, but now it's the same as the past couple years, getting the mess cleaned up.
The community isn't going to still be around if CCP merely "fixes the game" for the next couple years, while other companies are releasing just downright better games. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1283
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 10:06:00 -
[3839] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Webvan wrote:I can't see WiS ever being accepted by the majority of players until CCP finishes what they set out to do in regards to fixing this game. Adding lots more stuff just slows down that goal. People think it's somehow a popular idea now just because the majority of players don't bother to discuss it any longer, to object so much... to an old warn out topic really dead and buried for all intents and purposes. But who knows what the future will bring, but now it's the same as the past couple years, getting the mess cleaned up. The community isn't going to still be around if CCP merely "fixes the game" for the next couple years, while other companies are releasing just downright better games. If CCP doesn't get with the "actually add stuff to EVE" program, it'll die off, and then you'll maybe see DUST and Valkyrie, and maybe this Legion thing we've heard is trademarked, being the future of New Eden, where EVE left off.
How do you know that? Do you have any data that backs up your claims? Also what "better" games are being released that compete with EvE Online? The Tears Must Flow |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
1936
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 10:12:00 -
[3840] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:
The community isn't going to still be around if CCP merely "fixes the game" for the next couple years, while other companies are releasing just downright better games. If CCP doesn't get with the "actually add stuff to EVE" program, it'll die off, and then you'll maybe see DUST and Valkyrie, and maybe this Legion thing we've heard is trademarked, being the future of New Eden, where EVE left off.
CCP has over 10yrs of development, that's a lot of catching up for those "better" games to do. Fixing broken stuff IS new content. |
|
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
6605
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 10:16:00 -
[3841] - Quote
There's always going to be stuff to "fix".
Always.
Major (Ret.) Caldari Militia | Part-time wormhole pirate | Full-time super model Gÿá Wormhole Diary Sith1s Spectre: "Here at Sky Fighters we respect quality forum PvPers." |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1283
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 10:34:00 -
[3842] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:There's always going to be stuff to "fix".
Always.
There is much less problems to fix today compared to 2011. The game is in great shape, and this new industry expansion looks very promising. The Tears Must Flow |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1330
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 22:50:00 -
[3843] - Quote
The great joy of eve is its complexity, there's a lot you can do with the user interface, it's functional but needs a lot of polish. I'm happy that they are currently focusing on this for the time being, a great looking game can only attract more subs, as for sov it's not something that affects everyone in the game that's why it's bottom of the list in the development cycle.
Unless you are in the leadership of a null sec alliance or Corp sov isn't that important at all. The rank and file null bears are just happy to be in blue space, even the guys that form up for fleets and calls to arms are only interested in having a good fight, not sov as such as that's the domain of the alliance strategists.
Like I say, pos's will be replaced by deployable structures and this makes a lot of sense, sov will probably be treated the same way. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1330
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 22:51:00 -
[3844] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:There's always going to be stuff to "fix".
Always.
There is much less problems to fix today compared to 2011. The game is in great shape, and this new industry expansion looks very promising.
The new manufacturing screen looks stunning. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 23:39:00 -
[3845] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Silent Rambo wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: Sov is dead, there will be no rework.
at best it will be replaced with deployable modules that confer some type of Sov, but that's it. I don't blame CCP though for going with the cheapest option for null sec as we're talking about a tiny minority of players who actually have an interest in sov.
The only way to increase the interest in it is to fix it so smaller groups can take systems. I also wouldn't say around 1/5 of the player base to be small. It will be iterated on, but probably not fixed immediately. Well yeah I agree in general, it's something that needs to be worked on, SOV and POS etc. Also with concerns to FW too (which has improved much), not just nul. I can't see WiS ever being accepted by the majority of players until CCP finishes what they set out to do in regards to fixing this game. Adding lots more stuff just slows down that goal. People think it's somehow a popular idea now just because the majority of players don't bother to discuss it any longer, to object so much... to an old warn out topic really dead and buried for all intents and purposes. But who knows what the future will bring, but now it's the same as the past couple years, getting the mess cleaned up.
It's unbelievable how people think. No problem, I am happy to wait for other games to come out and then CCP will change their mind in regard to WiS. When the cash shrinks cause people drop EVE for some other subscription title, things will change. I can see the future. I doubt that Valkyrie will be cash generating, as only a bunch of people can afford to pay for the FaceBook goggles, so that is going to be another failure in vision and overall strategy. I still do not understand why EVE / Dust integration is not further developed and why Dust is not a module of EVE online on PC. Now I fly a ship, and now I decide to clone jump to a planet to fight, it's that simple. Sorry for the rant but I care abopt EVE and I am upset by seeing people who are too short sighted. |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 23:49:00 -
[3846] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Crasniya wrote:Webvan wrote:I can't see WiS ever being accepted by the majority of players until CCP finishes what they set out to do in regards to fixing this game. Adding lots more stuff just slows down that goal. People think it's somehow a popular idea now just because the majority of players don't bother to discuss it any longer, to object so much... to an old warn out topic really dead and buried for all intents and purposes. But who knows what the future will bring, but now it's the same as the past couple years, getting the mess cleaned up. The community isn't going to still be around if CCP merely "fixes the game" for the next couple years, while other companies are releasing just downright better games. If CCP doesn't get with the "actually add stuff to EVE" program, it'll die off, and then you'll maybe see DUST and Valkyrie, and maybe this Legion thing we've heard is trademarked, being the future of New Eden, where EVE left off. How do you know that? Do you have any data that backs up your claims? Also what "better" games are being released that compete with EvE Online?
It seems a very reasonable assumption. People want new content and innovation in general within EVE, not outside (and not FB Oculus). |
Beofryn Sedorak
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 23:57:00 -
[3847] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote: I still do not understand why EVE / Dust integration is not further developed.
Everything you need to know about CCP's efforts (As far as they've shared with us thus far) in merging the economies and why it's taking some time to do so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pzODp6-hO8
The most recent information on the progress of EVE / Dust link via game mechanics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40zjfBk5vEE
|
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 23:58:00 -
[3848] - Quote
You need ground shaking stuff at this point:
- WiS as walk in Station, Structure and Spaceship with aggression and ability to kill with a gun or knife - Ship paint workshop like the character one - Serious change to hangars: they need to be walkable, good looking and hold all my ships at the same time - Serious DUST integration to the point that all current EVE players can play DUST on PC without having to switch to another game - New type of missions that are either DUST related or WiS related
And then if CCP is really into Oculus, then adapt the whole of EVE to be used the with the FB device, preferably an alternative one.
Those are my 2 cents.. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
837
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 00:33:00 -
[3849] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote:You need ground shaking stuff at this point:
- WiS as walk in Station, Structure and Spaceship with aggression and ability to kill with a gun or knife - Ship paint workshop like the character one - Serious change to hangars: they need to be walkable, good looking and hold all my ships at the same time - Serious DUST integration to the point that all current EVE players can play DUST on PC without having to switch to another game - New type of missions that are either DUST related or WiS related
And then if CCP is really into Oculus, then adapt the whole of EVE to be used the with the FB device, preferably an alternative one.
Those are my 2 cents.. Check the quote in my sig. CCP isn't going to ignore real EVE content to cater to roleplayers again.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Beofryn Sedorak
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 00:48:00 -
[3850] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Check the quote in my sig. CCP isn't going to ignore real EVE content to cater to roleplayers again.
The quote in your sig is based off of WiS being a direct portion of the EVE experience, it doesn't exclude it from being developed as a companion product.
Additionally, regardless of which Dev said something on the spot outside of an official statement, corporate strategy is never set in stone, |
|
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
1960
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 01:05:00 -
[3851] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote:
It's unbelievable how people think. No problem, I am happy to wait for other games to come out and then CCP will change their mind in regard to WiS. When the cash shrinks cause people drop EVE for some other subscription title, things will change. I can see the future. I doubt that Valkyrie will be cash generating, as only a bunch of people can afford to pay for the FaceBook goggles, so that is going to be another failure in vision and overall strategy. I still do not understand why EVE / Dust integration is not further developed and why Dust is not a module of EVE online on PC. Now I fly a ship, and now I decide to clone jump to a planet to fight, it's that simple. Sorry for the rant but I care abopt EVE and I am upset by seeing people who are too short sighted.
Short sighted HAH! You think it's that simple to just slap Dust into EVE and call it a day? Sorry, but that's just an unedumacated view there you posted.
Personally I'd rather they just rip WiS out of the game entirely and drop in Dust all together, at least a PC version of it more in the mmo style. But even that is too much dev time and would rot the actual internet spaceship game which this game features. Excuse me if my SWG pre-NGE roots are bleeding though hehe. But even in the development of SWG:JTLS they had horrible obstacles with integration (according to their devs and why it was delayed to a later expansion).
But if you like Dust, well then play Dust, it's there. Meanwhile EVE, which has significantly improved regardless of WiS, still has development cycles to reach, many fix-it/maintenance milestones to conquer. It's not an endless fix-it plan, that would actually be short sighted as far as actual development procedure goes. Read up on ISO/IEC 12207 standards and become less "upset". You may think that you can see the future, but you are unaware of the present and how things operate in the software development field.
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Additionally, regardless of which Dev said something on the spot outside of an official statement, corporate strategy is never set in stone, Yes it is, it's sometimes well documented years in advance. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4970
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 01:10:00 -
[3852] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:
It's unbelievable how people think. No problem, I am happy to wait for other games to come out and then CCP will change their mind in regard to WiS. When the cash shrinks cause people drop EVE for some other subscription title, things will change. I can see the future. I doubt that Valkyrie will be cash generating, as only a bunch of people can afford to pay for the FaceBook goggles, so that is going to be another failure in vision and overall strategy. I still do not understand why EVE / Dust integration is not further developed and why Dust is not a module of EVE online on PC. Now I fly a ship, and now I decide to clone jump to a planet to fight, it's that simple. Sorry for the rant but I care abopt EVE and I am upset by seeing people who are too short sighted.
Short sighted HAH! You think it's that simple to just slap Dust into EVE and call it a day? Sorry, but that's just an unedumacated view there you posted. Personally I'd rather they just rip WiS out of the game entirely and drop in Dust all together, at least a PC version of it more in the mmo style. But even that is too much dev time and would rot the actual internet spaceship game which this game features. Excuse me if my SWG pre-NGE roots are bleeding though hehe. But if you like Dust, well then play Dust, it's there. Meanwhile EVE, which has significantly improved regardless of WiS, still has development cycles to reach, many fix-it/maintenance milestones to conquer. It's not an endless fix-it plan, that would actually be short sighted as far as actual development procedure goes. Read up on ISO/IEC 12207 standards and become less "upset". You may think that you can see the future, but you are unaware of the present and how things operate in the software development field.
Nothing is impossible for the man who does not have to do it himself.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 01:13:00 -
[3853] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:You need ground shaking stuff at this point:
- WiS as walk in Station, Structure and Spaceship with aggression and ability to kill with a gun or knife - Ship paint workshop like the character one - Serious change to hangars: they need to be walkable, good looking and hold all my ships at the same time - Serious DUST integration to the point that all current EVE players can play DUST on PC without having to switch to another game - New type of missions that are either DUST related or WiS related
And then if CCP is really into Oculus, then adapt the whole of EVE to be used the with the FB device, preferably an alternative one.
Those are my 2 cents.. Check the quote in my sig. CCP isn't going to ignore real EVE content to cater to roleplayers again.
That's not what I have learnt from the beginning, that in fact EVE wanted to be a science fiction game that goes beyond space ships.
Here is an extract from an article released some time back:
"Most interestingly, Olafsson touched on the potential for the avatar component of Eve Online. Players may one day be able to leave their spacecraft and explore valuable ruins that populate the universe. These will not be closed instances, and Eve's critical sense of danger at all times will prevail. A typically bombastic visionary trailer outlining the future of the game was used to close the ceremony"
Link to article... http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-24-ccp-presents-its-vision-of-the-future-for-eve-online-and-dust-514 |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
1961
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 01:17:00 -
[3854] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:
Nothing is impossible for the man who does not have to do it himself.
You mean the difficulty of it? Oh heck yeah. It's almost miraculous that EVE works at all.
|
Beofryn Sedorak
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 01:24:00 -
[3855] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Yes it is, it's sometimes well documented years in advance.
Until something changes, and everything gets re-strategized. |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
1963
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 02:07:00 -
[3856] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Webvan wrote:Yes it is, it's sometimes well documented years in advance. Until something changes, and everything gets re-strategized. No, the only time this has seemed to have happened was over the summer of rage. And also with a shift of positions. I'm not expecting any winter of rage for WiS anytime soon... Google up the ISO/IEC standards I mentioned, that's pretty common practice. Of course CCP is a large developer compared to many, deploying many different teams into the project, but they still operate by a development standard such as that, if not that exclusively. Probably a minimum of hard documentation on a one year cycle (maybe two), and more rough documents beyond that which would be more likely to see current community requests that haven't been added to the current development cycles. And even some of the current work probably being pushed back by R&D into later cycles. Yeah, nobody operates by a whim.
|
Beofryn Sedorak
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 02:21:00 -
[3857] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Webvan wrote:Yes it is, it's sometimes well documented years in advance. Until something changes, and everything gets re-strategized. No, the only time this has seemed to have happened was over the summer of rage. And also with a shift of positions. I'm not expecting any winter of rage for WiS anytime soon... Google up the ISO/IEC standards I mentioned, that's pretty common practice. Of course CCP is a large developer compared to many, deploying many different teams into the project, but they still operate by a development standard such as that, if not that exclusively. Probably a minimum of hard documentation on a one year cycle (maybe two), and more rough documents beyond that which would be more likely to see current community requests that haven't been added to the current development cycles. And even some of the current work probably being pushed back by R&D into later cycles. Yeah, nobody operates by a whim.
1) CCP has such an excellent track record of not changing their development plans.
2) Your argument is the inverse of "Things aren't set in stone" meaning no chance of them changing. Then you go and say "They won't change unless X" You've already proven yourself wrong. Thank you.
3) "Yeah, nobody operates by a whim." BWAAAAHAHAH, heh, That's a good one, I really tried to write a serious response to that, But I just couldn't take it seriously after such a poorly thought out response. |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
1963
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 02:37:00 -
[3858] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
1) CCP has such an excellent track record of not changing their development plans.
2) Your argument is the inverse of "Things aren't set in stone" meaning no chance of them changing. Then you go and say "They won't change unless X" You've already proven yourself wrong. Thank you.
3) "Yeah, nobody operates by a whim." BWAAAAHAHAH, heh, That's a good one, I really tried to write a serious response to that, But I just couldn't take it seriously after such a poorly thought out response.
So you think it's good when a company needs to shed jobs to change their development strategy? CCP took a hit after the summer of rage, it's not some sort of normal development cycle shift. That that's somehow just normal operational procedure? You don't know what goes on behind closed doors, and your guess is pretty poor without understanding how the process works which would give you at least the slightest idea. You can't just make major changes like that without negative repercussions to your product; the confusion and delays that follow would rip your company apart if it became a constant. |
Beofryn Sedorak
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 02:46:00 -
[3859] - Quote
Webvan wrote:So you think it's good when a company needs to shed jobs to change their development strategy? CCP took a hit after the summer of rage, it's not some sort of normal development cycle shift. That that's somehow just normal operational procedure? You don't know what goes on behind closed doors, and your guess is pretty poor without understanding how the process works which would give you at least the slightest idea. You can't just make major changes like that without negative repercussions to your product; the confusion and delays that follow would rip your company apart if it became a constant.
Appended a 4th item to my previous post.
I'm not sure why you're arguing whether it's good or not. This isn't a debate about correct and incorrect, It's a debate about possibilities. no one's implying that an abrupt transition back into developing Avatar game play based off of WiS concepts would be "normal", But as Valkyrie proves, Sometimes the time is just right and you need to grab it by the throat. But even more importantly, As you already stated yourself, None of us have first hand knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors. So if CCP did have plans to develop an additional product based on WiS gameplay, it could very well have been set in motion already leaving plenty of time to satisfy your argument of a 1 year dev cycle. Not to mention that whenever the shift back to WiS content happened, There would be plenty of time for a 1 year cycle. Provided that existence as we know it doesn't end. There are so many holes in your logic that I don't care to point them all out.
The bottom line is, You shouldn't be so sure of your standpoint when there's so many ways it could be wrong. You've taken the stance of "Beyond a shadow of a doubt" requiring you to prove that there's "no way it could happen", I only needed to prove 1 way it could happen for you to be wrong, Which you so graciously did all by yourself without any of my multitude of examples. |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
1965
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 03:05:00 -
[3860] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote: But even more importantly, As you already stated yourself, None of us have first hand knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors. So if That's out of context of what I said, and clearly you know that. If you ever do as I suggest, you will have understanding of what is going on behind those closed doors, in time, an educated guess, as apposed to knowing nothing as your posts on the matter clearly communicate. Your 'what if's' don't really fit through the door, just like the one saying she knows the future. CCP may have their problems, but they have shown themselves smarter than that, and function as developers typically do, or maybe even more so transparent than most.
|
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Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1173
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 03:08:00 -
[3861] - Quote
Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
837
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 03:20:00 -
[3862] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote:Rhes wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:You need ground shaking stuff at this point:
- WiS as walk in Station, Structure and Spaceship with aggression and ability to kill with a gun or knife - Ship paint workshop like the character one - Serious change to hangars: they need to be walkable, good looking and hold all my ships at the same time - Serious DUST integration to the point that all current EVE players can play DUST on PC without having to switch to another game - New type of missions that are either DUST related or WiS related
And then if CCP is really into Oculus, then adapt the whole of EVE to be used the with the FB device, preferably an alternative one.
Those are my 2 cents.. Check the quote in my sig. CCP isn't going to ignore real EVE content to cater to roleplayers again. That's not what I have learnt from the beginning, that in fact EVE wanted to be a science fiction game that goes beyond space ships. Here is an extract from an article released some time back: "Most interestingly, Olafsson touched on the potential for the avatar component of Eve Online. Players may one day be able to leave their spacecraft and explore valuable ruins that populate the universe. These will not be closed instances, and Eve's critical sense of danger at all times will prevail. A typically bombastic visionary trailer outlining the future of the game was used to close the ceremony" Link to article... http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-24-ccp-presents-its-vision-of-the-future-for-eve-online-and-dust-514 That quote is old. CCP has since regained sanity and promised to focus on real Eve content. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
1965
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 03:22:00 -
[3863] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said. Who claimed that? I don't see anyone saying that except by people trying to discredit those that favor the internet spaceship game over dreams of WiS. Use of poor forum trolling tactics 0/10. Even poor usage in psychology/counter-psychology. |
Beofryn Sedorak
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 03:23:00 -
[3864] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote: But even more importantly, As you already stated yourself, None of us have first hand knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors. So if That's out of context of what I said, and clearly you know that. If you ever do as I suggest, you will have understanding of what is going on behind those closed doors, in time, an educated guess, as apposed to knowing nothing as your posts on the matter clearly communicate. Your 'what if's' don't really fit through the door, just like the one saying she knows the future. CCP may have their problems, but they have shown themselves smarter than that, and function as developers typically do, or maybe even more so transparent than most.
The context of your usage is irrelevant to the accuracy of the statement in other context.
As with any good corporation, CCP almost certainly has concepts, strategy's and/or R&D projects we very intentionally have no knowledge of. After the fallout of the first attempt at Incarna, CCP would be very cautious to discuss any hopes, Strategies or plans with anyone not under heavy NDA as to protect their image and reputation. To neglect such a plausible scenario is foolish and short sighted. To concede that you are capable of developing educated guesses as to every single strategy a company has both planned and side lined and what they intend to do with them is more of the same.
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
837
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 03:23:00 -
[3865] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said. The layoffs were due to CCP ignoring Eve for two years while they tried to cater to the dance emotes and wizard pants crowd which resulted in the summer of rage and a massive drop in subscription numbers.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Beofryn Sedorak
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 03:28:00 -
[3866] - Quote
Rhes wrote:That quote is old. CCP has since regained sanity and promised to focus on real Eve content.
Similar vision being presented end of last October.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dRlgzE_7FI |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
637
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 03:29:00 -
[3867] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said. The layoffs were due to CCP ignoring Eve for two years while they tried to cater to the dance emotes and wizard pants crowd which resulted in the summer of rage and a massive drop in subscription numbers.
Pretty much, though the fact the attempts at WIS stuff were broken and useless did not help.
In essence though EVE is a 90's style game with 90's PvP and 90's graphics and the playerbase actually LIKE it that way and trying to change that (as opposed to fiddling with the current stuff) draws a great deal of rage. |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
1965
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 03:34:00 -
[3868] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said. The layoffs were due to CCP ignoring Eve for two years while they tried to cater to the dance emotes and wizard pants crowd which resulted in the summer of rage and a massive drop in subscription numbers. Straight up. Long time broken game features, long focus on WiS development that produced little to nothing, greed is good RMT. The resulting demand was reiteration, repair and improvements to the existing game as it is. This they are essentially still doing, starting from the newbie experience and working on out linearly; new features + old repair.
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
In essence though EVE is a 90's style game with 90's PvP and 90's graphics and the playerbase actually LIKE it that way and trying to change that (as opposed to fiddling with the current stuff) draws a great deal of rage.
I don't know about that, but the glaring changes for me are the environmental updates, hard to miss. Where New Eden seemed nearly 2D for me, it is certainly looking in the realm of 3D in recent years. Dang, we even see the rout lines on the stars now, rather impressive really. I really like environments and content development, and here in EVE all the big and little things added are quite good... and modern. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1173
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 05:15:00 -
[3869] - Quote
Anyone see the pilot suits on the cover of the fanfest schedule? Some cool looking scifi stuff there.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
1023
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 10:01:00 -
[3870] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Anyone see the pilot suits on the cover of the fanfest schedule? Some cool looking scifi stuff there.
It is looking pretty nice yes, I hope it will be used for more than promotional posters/trailers. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1290
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 11:15:00 -
[3871] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Flamespar wrote:Anyone see the pilot suits on the cover of the fanfest schedule? Some cool looking scifi stuff there.
It is looking pretty nice yes, I hope it will be used for more than promotional posters/trailers.
EvE Online toilet paper!!! The Tears Must Flow |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
132
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:02:00 -
[3872] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:
It's unbelievable how people think. No problem, I am happy to wait for other games to come out and then CCP will change their mind in regard to WiS. When the cash shrinks cause people drop EVE for some other subscription title, things will change. I can see the future. I doubt that Valkyrie will be cash generating, as only a bunch of people can afford to pay for the FaceBook goggles, so that is going to be another failure in vision and overall strategy. I still do not understand why EVE / Dust integration is not further developed and why Dust is not a module of EVE online on PC. Now I fly a ship, and now I decide to clone jump to a planet to fight, it's that simple. Sorry for the rant but I care abopt EVE and I am upset by seeing people who are too short sighted.
Short sighted HAH! You think it's that simple to just slap Dust into EVE and call it a day? Sorry, but that's just an unedumacated view there you posted. Personally I'd rather they just rip WiS out of the game entirely and drop in Dust all together, at least a PC version of it more in the mmo style. But even that is too much dev time and would rot the actual internet spaceship game which this game features. Excuse me if my SWG pre-NGE roots are bleeding though hehe. But even in the development of SWG:JTLS they had horrible obstacles with integration (according to their devs and why it was delayed to a later expansion). But if you like Dust, well then play Dust, it's there. Meanwhile EVE, which has significantly improved regardless of WiS, still has development cycles to reach, many fix-it/maintenance milestones to conquer. It's not an endless fix-it plan, that would actually be short sighted as far as actual development procedure goes. Read up on ISO/IEC 12207 standards and become less "upset". You may think that you can see the future, but you are unaware of the present and how things operate in the software development field. Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Additionally, regardless of which Dev said something on the spot outside of an official statement, corporate strategy is never set in stone, Yes it is, it's sometimes well documented years in advance.
In real life I am Software Development Manager.... :) |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
132
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:11:00 -
[3873] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Webvan wrote:So you think it's good when a company needs to shed jobs to change their development strategy? CCP took a hit after the summer of rage, it's not some sort of normal development cycle shift. That that's somehow just normal operational procedure? You don't know what goes on behind closed doors, and your guess is pretty poor without understanding how the process works which would give you at least the slightest idea. You can't just make major changes like that without negative repercussions to your product; the confusion and delays that follow would rip your company apart if it became a constant. Appended a 4th item to my previous post. I'm not sure why you're arguing whether it's good or not. This isn't a debate about correct and incorrect, It's a debate about possibilities. no one's implying that an abrupt transition back into developing Avatar game play based off of WiS concepts would be "normal", But as Valkyrie proves, Sometimes the time is just right and you need to grab it by the throat. But even more importantly, As you already stated yourself, None of us have first hand knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors. So if CCP did have plans to develop an additional product based on WiS gameplay, it could very well have been set in motion already leaving plenty of time to satisfy your argument of a 1 year dev cycle. Not to mention that whenever the shift back to WiS content happened, There would be plenty of time for a 1 year cycle. Provided that existence as we know it doesn't end. There are so many holes in your logic that I don't care to point them all out. The bottom line is, You shouldn't be so sure of your standpoint when there's so many ways it could be wrong. You've taken the stance of "Beyond a shadow of a doubt" requiring you to prove that there's "no way it could happen", I only needed to prove 1 way it could happen for you to be wrong, Which you so graciously did all by yourself without any of my multitude of examples.
CCP is doing the opposite of what every business today is doing and needs to do to stay in business, e.g. standardise technology and processes, optimise the delivery and reduce costs. The more you standardise the more you can automate, reuse and optimise your delivery. The more you diversify the more you spend time and money fire fighting. Respectfully speaking it looks to me that the company is run by a bunch of inexperienced kids. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1331
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:12:00 -
[3874] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said. The layoffs were due to CCP ignoring Eve for two years while they tried to cater to the dance emotes and wizard pants crowd which resulted in the summer of rage and a massive drop in subscription numbers.
You know that isn't true...
that memo 'greed is good' caused the riots. This has already been pointed out to you, several times.
You no longer have any credibility left as you are now repeating the same old crushed arguments over and over again just to troll.
Take a look in the mirror, are you honestly being the person you envisaged yourself to be? Or did you just aspire to be a troll, I wouldn't mind but you're not very good at it or even original.
Trolling lessons are that way ----mumsnet Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
406
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:24:00 -
[3875] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote: Respectfully speaking it looks to me that the company is run by a bunch of inexperienced kids.
Well, after so many years in charge of the company they sure have some experience. Whether this experience if of any value and was acquired doing the job right by persons qualified to do it is another matter that should be questioned and re-evaluated.
According to reports by ex-employees who've worked at the company for several years, the required workload became unmanageable for several departments who were cut in half or worse after the 2011 layoff. Management has a tendency to halt progress on all other projects to fix their mistakes with EVE by taking over whole development teams for months at a time. Has a tendency to 're-invent the wheel' with everything, even when there are proven, useful tools in the marketplace already. Promotes very little follow-through on in-house tools. Little to no maintenance is done on them, until someone needs them again, and then it becomes a 6 month to 6 year undertaking. They don't offer a ton of support if you are struggling with the hours and workload. Want employees to work harder, not smarter, resulting in frequent burnouts and turnover.
Current management also lacks leadership, communication skills and vision for development. Apart from the absence of an executive producer with power to direct changes to the project and make sure that production goals are met, there's also a lack of producers in function (they have plenty of people with producer on the business card). In most studios you have an upper level of "idea people" the "grunts" (programmers, designers, artists) and in the middle, you have the producers, who try to ensure schedules are stuck to, and that the upper level understands what delays will come from changing their minds. They also facilitate communication between the grunts, so that projects with inter-dependencies get done. CCP is completely lacking this middle level of people. They have granted long standing employees with this position as a reward, regardless of lack of skill in managing people.
Because of this, they have wholesale embraced SCRUM as a way around the ineptitude of management. Fine for projects small enough for a SCRUM team to finish on their own, provided all are made up of driven individuals, but larger projects languish for months because of a lack of direction or enforcement across teams.
This is ignoring the recent "purge" in which many very competent and talented individuals were let go, and their peers who toed the company cheerleader line more closely were kept. The purge was also suspiciously drawn across icelander/foreigner lines, with many more icelanders staying, despite Iceland not having the industry to actually support a true surplus of talented individuals who would merit keeping over their experienced foreigner peers. Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4981
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:37:00 -
[3876] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said. The layoffs were due to CCP ignoring Eve for two years while they tried to cater to the dance emotes and wizard pants crowd which resulted in the summer of rage and a massive drop in subscription numbers. You know that isn't true... that memo 'greed is good' caused the riots.
citation_needed.jpg
About all anyone can say definitively is that the loss of subs and a big loan coming due caused the layoffs immediately post-Incarna.
If you can show that the Summer of Rage (SORGäó) that occurred beforehand was solely caused by the greed memo, please link the source of official CCP-released information you used to determine that. Maybe the memo is what did it for you, but to claim that it alone is what caused the riots, you are going to need some hard evidence.
Perhaps a better argument would be that the greed memo was the last straw for a lot of players. Even so, it was only a part of a perfect storm of failure.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1331
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:56:00 -
[3877] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said. The layoffs were due to CCP ignoring Eve for two years while they tried to cater to the dance emotes and wizard pants crowd which resulted in the summer of rage and a massive drop in subscription numbers. You know that isn't true... that memo 'greed is good' caused the riots. citation_needed.jpg About all anyone can say definitively is that the loss of subs and a big loan coming due caused the layoffs immediately post-Incarna. If you can show that the Summer of Rage (SORGäó) that occurred beforehand was solely caused by the greed memo, please link the source of official CCP-released information you used to determine that. Maybe the memo is what did it for you, but to claim that it alone is what caused the riots, you are going to need some hard evidence. Perhaps a better argument would be that the greed memo was the last straw for a lot of players. Even so, it was only a part of a perfect storm of failure.
2 seconds of googling...
http://m.slashdot.org/story/153830
not to mention the other myriad sources out there, including hilmar's apology. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
2205
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:00:00 -
[3878] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote: Respectfully speaking it looks to me that the company is run by a bunch of inexperienced kids. I disagree. If CCP were just a rabble of inexperienced kids, they would have just turned their noses up at the community outrage and pushed on with what they had been doing. You think that is failure, but CCP is still here and imo having done a pretty good job with the change that took place. You want a contrast of what real failure is? SWG-NGE. Same exact thing happened there, and they blew it off. They lost ~90% of their player-base practically over night, the remaining players probably still just played because they had the access pass to all of SOE games, playing all the other dead games SOE had (SOE, where games go to die). And after a long death-throe they shut their doors. It took the lead dev many years to admit that it had been a mistake. Learn from history.
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4981
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:07:00 -
[3879] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Rhes wrote:Flamespar wrote:Honestly anyone who thinks the layoffs were sorely due to Incarna needs to do better research and stop blindly following what some other whining players have said. The layoffs were due to CCP ignoring Eve for two years while they tried to cater to the dance emotes and wizard pants crowd which resulted in the summer of rage and a massive drop in subscription numbers. You know that isn't true... that memo 'greed is good' caused the riots. citation_needed.jpg About all anyone can say definitively is that the loss of subs and a big loan coming due caused the layoffs immediately post-Incarna. If you can show that the Summer of Rage (SORGäó) that occurred beforehand was solely caused by the greed memo, please link the source of official CCP-released information you used to determine that. Maybe the memo is what did it for you, but to claim that it alone is what caused the riots, you are going to need some hard evidence. Perhaps a better argument would be that the greed memo was the last straw for a lot of players. Even so, it was only a part of a perfect storm of failure. 2 seconds of googling... http://m.slashdot.org/story/153830not to mention the other myriad sources out there, including hilmar's apology.
Neither of those states the memo is what caused the riots which is what you claimed. If anything, the slashdot article summarizes what I said, and also is not an official CCP source.
Got anything that actually backs up your claim you can link to? The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
408
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:14:00 -
[3880] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote: Respectfully speaking it looks to me that the company is run by a bunch of inexperienced kids. I disagree. If CCP were just a rabble of inexperienced kids, they would have just turned their noses up at the community outrage and pushed on with what they had been doing. You think that is failure, but CCP is still here
CCP's management failure in that situation was not related to the ability to apply those damage control measures. They did apply them. The failure was in the ability to keep the boat sailing without cracking the hull. Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
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Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
2205
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:21:00 -
[3881] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Webvan wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote: Respectfully speaking it looks to me that the company is run by a bunch of inexperienced kids. I disagree. If CCP were just a rabble of inexperienced kids, they would have just turned their noses up at the community outrage and pushed on with what they had been doing. You think that is failure, but CCP is still here CCP's management failure in that situation was not related to the ability to apply those damage control measures. They did apply them. The failure was in the ability to keep the boat sailing without cracking the hull, or to be more precise, in the choice of boat made to sail that sea. Wut? John Smedley, is that you? |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1331
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:22:00 -
[3882] - Quote
Again, 2 seconds of googling,
http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died-page-2/
page 1 is a good read too.
Both articles clearly say that the memo kicked it all off. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
408
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:25:00 -
[3883] - Quote
Webvan wrote: Wut? John Smedley, is that you?
Even your usage of formal fallacies while posting in the forum with an alt has failed. Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4981
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:30:00 -
[3884] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Again, that's not an official CCP source, it does not in fact state the riots were cause solely by the memo, just as the first article you linked did not. If anything that article also states what I said again, i.e. there were many causes.
FTA
massively site wrote: Source of the problem
The third-party app contract and NeX store prices were both issues that anyone with even a passing knowledge of EVE or business would have recognised the flaws in immediately. It would have been obvious that these would lead to mass anger within the existing playerbase, and so these mistakes should have been easily caught long before publication.
I don't see the memo mentioned at all in that paragraph or the ones that follow it, and the author seems to think something else was at the heart of things, but there were many causes.
Care to try again? This time using a CCP source and not a 3rd party article that says what I already told you? The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
3119
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:30:00 -
[3885] - Quote
the entire cause of the first world war was that everybody just really liked ferdinand and were very upset |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
2205
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:39:00 -
[3886] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote: I read that when it was published, when all that was going while I was participating in the commotions. Brandon has his own take on things, his own opinions, his own views. He favors WiS to an extent, and still writes about 'what if's". Excellent columnist, but I don't always agree with his views. I do agree that it was a mix of events, but also all related in many ways, but I disagree that it was any one thing in particular. Each event as it unfolded just boiled the pot a little more. You cant really divorce "greed is good" from WiS, nor from the broken state of EVE at the time, they were interconnected.
|
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
2205
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:44:00 -
[3887] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Webvan wrote: Wut? John Smedley, is that you?
Even your usage of formal fallacies while posting in the forum with an alt has failed. huh? This isn't a forum alt. Webvan's got actual SP. So, wrong again...
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1331
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:46:00 -
[3888] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: Again, that's not an official CCP source, it does not in fact state the riots were cause solely by the memo, just as the first article you linked did not. If anything that article also states what I said again, i.e. there were many causes. FTA massively site wrote: Source of the problem
The third-party app contract and NeX store prices were both issues that anyone with even a passing knowledge of EVE or business would have recognised the flaws in immediately. It would have been obvious that these would lead to mass anger within the existing playerbase, and so these mistakes should have been easily caught long before publication.
I don't see the memo mentioned at all in that paragraph or the ones that follow it, and the author seems to think something else was at the heart of things. Care to try again? This time using a CCP source and not a 3rd party article that says what I already told you?
I think you're just unwilling to see my point. Given that in the very first paragraph it says:
'n the midst of the controversy surrounding the NeX store, an internal company newsletter called Fearless was leaked via EVE News 24. In it, potential microtransactions like the sale of ships, ammo, and faction standings were explored, things CCP had previously agreed were off-limits. Titled "Greed is Good?", the newsletter sent players into a frenzy. '
It's all over the internet, 2 seconds of googling, plus here it is, the official Hilmar's 1000 dollar pants moment or 'let them eat cake,' as I call it.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2339
The dev blog which is an official CCP source went to great lengths to try and calm the player base about the 'fearless' or 'greed is good ' newsletter. actually more than half of it addresses that newsletter directly. So clearly the player weren't upset about it all and it wasn't a catalyst for protests and the jita riots.
I was there, I rioted with the best of them in every trade hub, every person I spoke to was mad about that newsletter, pissed at the Nex store and didn't want the sandbox contaminated with gold ammo and items sold straight from source without being manufactured by other players. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1331
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:57:00 -
[3889] - Quote
whilst I am here
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2342
Another official CCP source.
Quote:CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so.
I'm starting to flog a dead horse now, Greed is good started the rioting. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4984
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 00:02:00 -
[3890] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote: I think you're just unwilling to see my point. Given that in the very first paragraph it says:
'n the midst of the controversy surrounding the NeX store, an internal company newsletter called Fearless was leaked via EVE News 24. In it, potential microtransactions like the sale of ships, ammo, and faction standings were explored, things CCP had previously agreed were off-limits. Titled "Greed is Good?", the newsletter sent players into a frenzy. '
That's the author's opinion (who does not work for CCP), and it only states it sent players into a frenzy. No where does it state the memo was solely responsible for the riots. When the author does try to declare a "source of the problem, he does not mention the memo at all, as I already pasted here.
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:It's all over the internet, 2 seconds of googling, plus here it is, the official Hilmar's 1000 dollar pants moment or 'let them eat cake,' as I call it. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2339The dev blog which is an official CCP source went to great lengths to try and calm the player base about the 'fearless' or 'greed is good ' newsletter. actually more than half of it addresses that newsletter directly. So clearly the player weren't upset about it all and it wasn't a catalyst for protests and the jita riots. I was there, I rioted with the best of them in every trade hub, every person I spoke to was mad about that newsletter, pissed at the Nex store and didn't want the sandbox contaminated with gold ammo and items sold straight from source without being manufactured by other players.
I was there too. In fact I've been here for probably just about every threadnaught and player upheaval that has ever happened since before T20. I also read all the articles at that time and CCP's dev blogs and attempts at damage control and Hillmar's infamous letter. All that is irrelevant.
I'm not saying the memo was not involved, but you said it was the reason the riots happened. It wasn't. It may have been the last straw, but it was not the sole cause, and you still have yet to prove that.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4984
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 00:05:00 -
[3891] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:whilst I am here http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2342Another official CCP source. Quote:CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so. I'm starting to flog a dead horse now, Greed is good started the rioting.
Except that's still not what it says. Is English not your first language perhaps?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1331
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 00:17:00 -
[3892] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: I think you're just unwilling to see my point. Given that in the very first paragraph it says:
'n the midst of the controversy surrounding the NeX store, an internal company newsletter called Fearless was leaked via EVE News 24. In it, potential microtransactions like the sale of ships, ammo, and faction standings were explored, things CCP had previously agreed were off-limits. Titled "Greed is Good?", the newsletter sent players into a frenzy. '
That's the author's opinion (who does not work for CCP), and it only states it sent players into a frenzy. No where does it state the memo was solely responsible for the riots. When the author does try to declare a "source of the problem, he does not mention the memo at all, as I already pasted here. Little Dragon Khamez wrote:It's all over the internet, 2 seconds of googling, plus here it is, the official Hilmar's 1000 dollar pants moment or 'let them eat cake,' as I call it. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2339The dev blog which is an official CCP source went to great lengths to try and calm the player base about the 'fearless' or 'greed is good ' newsletter. actually more than half of it addresses that newsletter directly. So clearly the player weren't upset about it all and it wasn't a catalyst for protests and the jita riots. I was there, I rioted with the best of them in every trade hub, every person I spoke to was mad about that newsletter, pissed at the Nex store and didn't want the sandbox contaminated with gold ammo and items sold straight from source without being manufactured by other players. I was there too. In fact I've been here for probably just about every threadnaught and player upheaval that has ever happened since before T20. I also read all the articles at that time and CCP's dev blogs and attempts at damage control and Hillmar's infamous letter. All that is irrelevant. I'm not saying the memo was not involved, but you said it was the reason the riots happened. It wasn't. It may have been the last straw, but it was not the sole cause, and you still have yet to prove that.
Apologies my english has let me down. I'm not a native speaker. I agree that there was a pressure cooker build up of steam that culminated with riots when the 'Greed is Good' memo was leaked. I still think that the 'Greed was good' moment kicked off the actual rioting, but I accept that people had cause to be angry about lots of different things.
Perhaps it's a point of perception but I don't remember anyone that I flew with at the time complaining about the intended road map for avatars, they all saw it positively but I accept that it just have been the crowd of people that I flew with at the time and that others elsewhere in New Eden may have been pissed about the avatars.
When I was shooting the statue all I remember was the talk of game changing items in the Nex store, though prior to that there was general mumbling about the lost development time and resources allocated to WOD which could have been spent on Eve. Those people should be even more pissed right now that WOD has been cancelled with absolutely nothing to show for it with no benefits to any CCP game let alone Eve.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1331
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 00:19:00 -
[3893] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:
Except that's still not what it says. Is English not your first language perhaps?
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Epikurus
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 00:19:00 -
[3894] - Quote
You're arguing over nothing. 'Cause' is a term that, Aristotle would say, 'is said in many ways'. It is equally proper to say that the final straw added to the camel's back caused the camel's back to break and to say that the total bundle of straw caused the camel's back to break - in each case what is indicated by the word 'cause' is slightly different.
You're both right. Now kiss. |
Webvan
State Protectorate Caldari State
2205
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 00:24:00 -
[3895] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:whilst I am here http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2342Another official CCP source. Quote:CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so. I'm starting to flog a dead horse now, Greed is good started the rioting. A lot of the EVE players would have been oblivious to greed is good if it were not for WiS drawing them all out of the woodwork to complain on the forums. A lot of people actually do not bother with these forums, but it takes an in-game problem to bring them here in force. The summer of rage was just too widespread to be forum regulars, trolls and etc. If there were no WiS, greed is good would have probably been just a blip on the radar, alone. But of course greed is good was linked to WiS, and monocle gate.
I mean if you want to quote Brandon's articles (see my link), then you would need to put the internal memo as a footnote to a bigger issues at hand. The monocle is worn after all, not slotted. As Brandon points out at the end of the first paragraph, it was the development direction in general. He got that right. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4985
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 00:24:00 -
[3896] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: I think you're just unwilling to see my point. Given that in the very first paragraph it says:
'n the midst of the controversy surrounding the NeX store, an internal company newsletter called Fearless was leaked via EVE News 24. In it, potential microtransactions like the sale of ships, ammo, and faction standings were explored, things CCP had previously agreed were off-limits. Titled "Greed is Good?", the newsletter sent players into a frenzy. '
That's the author's opinion (who does not work for CCP), and it only states it sent players into a frenzy. No where does it state the memo was solely responsible for the riots. When the author does try to declare a "source of the problem, he does not mention the memo at all, as I already pasted here. Little Dragon Khamez wrote:It's all over the internet, 2 seconds of googling, plus here it is, the official Hilmar's 1000 dollar pants moment or 'let them eat cake,' as I call it. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/2339The dev blog which is an official CCP source went to great lengths to try and calm the player base about the 'fearless' or 'greed is good ' newsletter. actually more than half of it addresses that newsletter directly. So clearly the player weren't upset about it all and it wasn't a catalyst for protests and the jita riots. I was there, I rioted with the best of them in every trade hub, every person I spoke to was mad about that newsletter, pissed at the Nex store and didn't want the sandbox contaminated with gold ammo and items sold straight from source without being manufactured by other players. I was there too. In fact I've been here for probably just about every threadnaught and player upheaval that has ever happened since before T20. I also read all the articles at that time and CCP's dev blogs and attempts at damage control and Hillmar's infamous letter. All that is irrelevant. I'm not saying the memo was not involved, but you said it was the reason the riots happened. It wasn't. It may have been the last straw, but it was not the sole cause, and you still have yet to prove that. Apologies my english has let me down. I'm not a native speaker. I agree that there was a pressure cooker build up of steam that culminated with riots when the 'Greed is Good' memo was leaked. I still think that the 'Greed was good' moment kicked off the actual rioting, but I accept that people had cause to be angry about lots of different things.
Understood, and it seems we agree. Perhaps the axiom I used you are simply unfamiliar with. When I initially said "last straw" I am referring the old saying: "The straw that broke the camel's back." This would seem to be in line with your pressure cooker analogy.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Epikurus
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 00:33:00 -
[3897] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Webvan wrote: Wut? John Smedley, is that you?
Even your usage of formal fallacies while posting in the forum with an alt has failed.
Not wanting to be a **** but that looks like an informal fallacy rather than a formal one. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
411
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 00:58:00 -
[3898] - Quote
Epikurus wrote:raven666wings wrote:Webvan wrote: Wut? John Smedley, is that you?
Even your usage of formal fallacies while posting in the forum with an alt has failed. Not wanting to be a **** but that looks like an informal fallacy rather than a formal one.
Indeed, I will amend the post.
Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
143
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 01:23:00 -
[3899] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote: Respectfully speaking it looks to me that the company is run by a bunch of inexperienced kids.
Well, after so many years in charge of the company they sure have some experience. Whether this experience is of any value and was acquired doing the job right by persons qualified to do it is another matter that should be questioned and re-evaluated. According to reports by ex-employees who've worked at the company for several years, the required workload became unmanageable for several departments who were cut in half or worse after the 2011 layoff. Management has a tendency to halt progress on all other projects to fix their mistakes with EVE by taking over whole development teams for months at a time. Has a tendency to 're-invent the wheel' with everything, even when there are proven, useful tools in the marketplace already. Promotes very little follow-through on in-house tools. Little to no maintenance is done on them, until someone needs them again, and then it becomes a 6 month to 6 year undertaking. They don't offer a ton of support if you are struggling with the hours and workload. Want employees to work harder, not smarter, resulting in frequent burnouts and turnover. Current management also lacks leadership, communication skills and vision for development. Apart from the absence of an executive producer with power to direct changes to the project and make sure that production goals are met, there's also a lack of producers in function (they have plenty of people with producer on the business card). In most studios you have an upper level of "idea people" the "grunts" (programmers, designers, artists) and in the middle, you have the producers, who try to ensure schedules are stuck to, and that the upper level understands what delays will come from changing their minds. They also facilitate communication between the grunts, so that projects with inter-dependencies get done. CCP is completely lacking this middle level of people. They have granted long standing employees with this position as a reward, regardless of lack of skill in managing people. Because of this, they have wholesale embraced SCRUM as a way around the ineptitude of management. Fine for projects small enough for a SCRUM team to finish on their own, provided all are made up of driven individuals, but larger projects languish for months because of a lack of direction or enforcement across teams. This is ignoring the recent "purge" in which many very competent and talented individuals were let go, and their peers who toed the company cheerleader line more closely were kept. The purge was also suspiciously drawn across icelander/foreigner lines, with many more icelanders staying, despite Iceland not having the industry to actually support a true surplus of talented individuals who would merit keeping over their experienced foreigner peers.
If what you describe is true, then the situation is even worse than I thought but still boils down to lack of management knowledge, process and business maturity overall. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4993
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 01:29:00 -
[3900] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote: If what you describe is true, then the situation is even worse than I thought but still boils down to lack of management knowledge, process and business maturity overall.
The negative ex-employee reviews posted on glassdoor seem to revolve around a common denominator you can check out for yourself. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
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Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1177
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 05:43:00 -
[3901] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote: If what you describe is true, then the situation is even worse than I thought but still boils down to lack of management knowledge, process and business maturity overall.
The negative ex-employee reviews posted on glassdoor seem to revolve around a common denominator you can check out for yourself.
I dunno. Say what you want about Himar's past mistakes. But it's worth mentioning that he is also somewhat responsible for EVE lasting as long as it has.
Of course, if he were to open the door he might ensure it lasts another 10 EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1331
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 07:28:00 -
[3902] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote: If what you describe is true, then the situation is even worse than I thought but still boils down to lack of management knowledge, process and business maturity overall.
The negative ex-employee reviews posted on glassdoor seem to revolve around a common denominator you can check out for yourself. I dunno. Say what you want about Himar's past mistakes. But it's worth mentioning that he is also somewhat responsible for EVE lasting as long as it has. Of course, if he were to open the door he might ensure it lasts another 10
The fact that eve has no real competitors has been a huge factor in all of this.
I don't know of any other Sci Fi mmo that has eve's harsh nature, complexity or single shard sandbox elements. Elite dangerous might have some of these elements when it comes out though so I worry about that and the effect it will have on eve rather than star citizen which is shaping up to be wow in space by the looks of things. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
143
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 09:56:00 -
[3903] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Flamespar wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote: If what you describe is true, then the situation is even worse than I thought but still boils down to lack of management knowledge, process and business maturity overall.
The negative ex-employee reviews posted on glassdoor seem to revolve around a common denominator you can check out for yourself. I dunno. Say what you want about Himar's past mistakes. But it's worth mentioning that he is also somewhat responsible for EVE lasting as long as it has. Of course, if he were to open the door he might ensure it lasts another 10 The fact that eve has no real competitors has been a huge factor in all of this. I don't know of any other Sci Fi mmo that has eve's harsh nature, complexity or single shard sandbox elements. Elite dangerous might have some of these elements when it comes out though so I worry about that and the effect it will have on eve rather than star citizen which is shaping up to be wow in space by the looks of things.
There is no point in being negative, I agree there is a lot of good and certainly there is a lot of merit to these pioneers. What I am puzzled about is the fact that when you make a mistake you ought to learn. And when you grow you ought to open doors to people who are better than you so that they can maximize your success. The management and leadership skill is about recognizing this and managing your growth with new partners and other smart people. So please don't take me wrong. I pay my respect to these guys. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1177
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 10:32:00 -
[3904] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The fact that eve has no real competitors has been a huge factor in all of this.
I don't know of any other Sci Fi mmo that has eve's harsh nature, complexity or single shard sandbox elements. Elite dangerous might have some of these elements when it comes out though so I worry about that and the effect it will have on eve rather than star citizen which is shaping up to be wow in space by the looks of things.
Star Citizen could either be a huge threat to EVE, or the victim of it's own hype bubble. Place your bets. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Veld San
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 11:13:00 -
[3905] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The fact that eve has no real competitors has been a huge factor in all of this.
I don't know of any other Sci Fi mmo that has eve's harsh nature, complexity or single shard sandbox elements. Elite dangerous might have some of these elements when it comes out though so I worry about that and the effect it will have on eve rather than star citizen which is shaping up to be wow in space by the looks of things.
Star Citizen could either be a huge threat to EVE, or the victim of it's own hype bubble. Place your bets.
To my understanding after watching some Star Citizen videos, Star Citizen is not a true MMORPG. It has some elements of one, according to the vids released by the devs, but I didnt see elaboration on those "elements". Thus it may not even compete with Eve. I might be wrong though, there may be new material available by now which clarifies a lot more since I took a look at it.
If it is going to be an MMORPG, and will offer a lot of the things that many of us want, but do not have due to Eve being only available space game in the genre, then it may indeed be significant.
I would also expect it to launch much smaller then Eve, good persistent world MMOs take years to develop and maintain which Eve has had and is kinda blowing it potential wise.
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1297
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 11:19:00 -
[3906] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The fact that eve has no real competitors has been a huge factor in all of this.
I don't know of any other Sci Fi mmo that has eve's harsh nature, complexity or single shard sandbox elements. Elite dangerous might have some of these elements when it comes out though so I worry about that and the effect it will have on eve rather than star citizen which is shaping up to be wow in space by the looks of things.
Star Citizen could either be a huge threat to EVE, or the victim of it's own hype bubble. Place your bets.
Star Citizen is a multiplayer arcade shooter, EvE Online is a sandbox mmo-rpg. Apples and oranges. The Tears Must Flow |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1178
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 11:33:00 -
[3907] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Flamespar wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The fact that eve has no real competitors has been a huge factor in all of this.
I don't know of any other Sci Fi mmo that has eve's harsh nature, complexity or single shard sandbox elements. Elite dangerous might have some of these elements when it comes out though so I worry about that and the effect it will have on eve rather than star citizen which is shaping up to be wow in space by the looks of things.
Star Citizen could either be a huge threat to EVE, or the victim of it's own hype bubble. Place your bets. Star Citizen is a multiplayer arcade shooter, EvE Online is a sandbox mmo-rpg. Apples and oranges.
It doesn't matter that they are different. If it better scratches that space exploration itch than EVE .. then it will attract more players.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
411
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 15:58:00 -
[3908] - Quote
Ubat Batuk wrote:It's unbelievable how people think. No poblem, I am happy to wait for other games to come out and then CCP will change their mind in regard to WiS. When the cash shrinks cause people drop EVE for some other subscription title, things will change. I can see the future. I doubt that Valkyrie will be cash generating, as only a bunch of people can afford to pay for the FaceBook goggles, so that is going to be another failure in vision and overall strategy.
Dont worry, they'll hire Mintchimp when things start to get rough with Valkyrie too Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Gostina Mishina
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 16:23:00 -
[3909] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:...Star Citizen is a multiplayer arcade shooter, EvE Online is a sandbox mmo-rpg. Apples and oranges. Play EVE for more than ten minutes, and you'll realize that it's both apples and oranges, plus about twenty other kinds of fruit. That's what a sandbox *is*. If Star Citizen ever launches, it's safe to say that there will be significant overlap.
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1224
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 17:48:00 -
[3910] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.
Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Snakebyte Jack
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
30
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 17:54:00 -
[3911] - Quote
I cannot put into words how excited and happy i am to hear this news. It is the best thing ive heard for ages. Eve is going to live and grow and not stagnate and die. REJOYCE !!
Thankyou CCP for so much fun and enjoyment.
It has been and will always be an epic adventure. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
921
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 18:06:00 -
[3912] - Quote
Many people believe that everything has a reason, ignoring that most often it has multiple.
Then people argue if their reason is the right one.
*sips blood-orange tea* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860 Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears! And how do I put text as links into signatures?? |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3797
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 18:18:00 -
[3913] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Many people believe that everything has a reason, ignoring that most often it has multiple.
Then people argue if their reason is the right one.
*sips blood-orange tea*
Deep
I believe that there are no reasons, only one or more causes and their effects
But I can see your point too.
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1298
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 18:20:00 -
[3914] - Quote
Snakebyte Jack wrote:I cannot put into words how excited and happy i am to hear this news. It is the best thing ive heard for ages. Eve is going to live and grow and not stagnate and die. REJOYCE !!
Thankyou CCP for so much fun and enjoyment.
It has been and will always be an epic adventure.
What are you talking about? The Tears Must Flow |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1635
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 18:28:00 -
[3915] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Snakebyte Jack wrote:I cannot put into words how excited and happy i am to hear this news. It is the best thing ive heard for ages. Eve is going to live and grow and not stagnate and die. REJOYCE !!
Thankyou CCP for so much fun and enjoyment.
It has been and will always be an epic adventure. What are you talking about?
I think he misread this thread completely. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1345
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 19:25:00 -
[3916] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Flamespar wrote:Anyone see the pilot suits on the cover of the fanfest schedule? Some cool looking scifi stuff there.
It is looking pretty nice yes, I hope it will be used for more than promotional posters/trailers.
Really? I don't. These are a nice pictures grahic designers put anywhere because marketing wants shiny stuff here and there. Models are very nice tho, especially the Valkyrie one. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1333
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 21:25:00 -
[3917] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Snakebyte Jack wrote:I cannot put into words how excited and happy i am to hear this news. It is the best thing ive heard for ages. Eve is going to live and grow and not stagnate and die. REJOYCE !!
Thankyou CCP for so much fun and enjoyment.
It has been and will always be an epic adventure. What are you talking about?
Yeah, I was wondering that too, has there been an announcement that we've missed? Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
6649
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 00:12:00 -
[3918] - Quote
I think he just missed reading the dates in the first page, and the more-recent posts, and thought that this thread was still 'current' and Team Avatar was still active.
Major (Ret.) Caldari Militia | Part-time wormhole pirate | Full-time super model Gÿá Wormhole Diary Sith1s Spectre: "Here at Sky Fighters we respect quality forum PvPers." |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
3126
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 01:10:00 -
[3919] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:the entire cause of the first world war was that everybody just really liked ferdinand and were very upset it's not offtopic, it's an analogy. gods above |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1178
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 01:10:00 -
[3920] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:I think he just missed reading the dates in the first page, and the more-recent posts, and thought that this thread was still 'current' and Team Avatar was still active.
This thread is still current (after two years), there is still interest in this feature.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
|
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
3126
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 01:12:00 -
[3921] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:I think he just missed reading the dates in the first page, and the more-recent posts, and thought that this thread was still 'current' and Team Avatar was still active.
This thread is still current (after two years), there is still interest in this feature. the thread is only still around because of a small number of posters continually bumping it. the original post is not current at all, the current topic is nowhere close to that of the op, the thread should be locked and replaced with a 'wis thread' |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
6651
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 01:24:00 -
[3922] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:I think he just missed reading the dates in the first page, and the more-recent posts, and thought that this thread was still 'current' and Team Avatar was still active.
This thread is still current (after two years), there is still interest in this feature. Preaching to the choir here son
What I meant was the poster obviously read the OP, got excited thinking the prototype referred to was a currently ongoing thing, and made his post.
I fully support avatar development and stand by to throw ridiculous amounts of money at it if/when we get more content.
Major (Ret.) Caldari Militia | Part-time wormhole pirate | Full-time super model Gÿá Wormhole Diary Sith1s Spectre: "Here at Sky Fighters we respect quality forum PvPers." |
Beofryn Sedorak
25
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 01:27:00 -
[3923] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:I fully support avatar development and stand by to throw ridiculous amounts of money at it if/when we get more content.
I support this post.
+1 |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1636
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 05:27:00 -
[3924] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:I fully support avatar development and stand by to throw ridiculous amounts of money at it if/when we get more content. I support this post. +1
I support this support.
+1 I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Dani Dusette
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1257
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 06:31:00 -
[3925] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:I fully support avatar development and stand by to throw ridiculous amounts of money at it if/when we get more content. I support this post. +1 I support this support. +1 I support this support of my sister's post.
+3
Mizhir:-á "Dani Dusette, Best Dusette" Samoth Egnoled: "Make sure you turn yourself often and bathe in your own juices." ISD Ezwal: "Might I inform you that I am as real as it gets?" |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
147
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 13:05:00 -
[3926] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:I fully support avatar development and stand by to throw ridiculous amounts of money at it if/when we get more content. I support this post. +1
I support this.
+1 |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5054
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:45:00 -
[3927] - Quote
Hey it's the ghost squadron, still X'ing-up for an OP that's never going to happen.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Beofryn Sedorak
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:53:00 -
[3928] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Hey it's the ghost squadron, still X'ing-up for an OP that's never going to happen.
All I heard was, "I'm going to go to an arcade and tell people video games are stupid and aren't going to survive 5 years despite everyone being there because they love video games."
If you don't like hearing us express our interests in this type of game play, Don't come into the thread dedicated to discussing it.
If your only reason for being here is to bash and flame us for our interests then there's no reason for us to care about anything you say.
It's near impossible for me to see a long term future of CCP that doesn't involve avatar based game play in the vein of Incarna/WiS. It may not come as part of EVE, but it will certainly play a role in all of the New Eden Products. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
929
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:55:00 -
[3929] - Quote
Dani Dusette wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:I fully support avatar development and stand by to throw ridiculous amounts of money at it if/when we get more content. I support this post. +1 I support this support. +1 I support this support of my sister's post. +3 I'd support what you support every day. All night too!
xD https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860 Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears! And how do I put text as links into signatures?? |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5055
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 14:56:00 -
[3930] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote: It's near impossible for me to see a long term future of CCP that doesn't involve avatar based game play in the vein of Incarna/WiS. It may not come as part of EVE, but it will certainly play a role in all of the New Eden Products.
Remove your emotional blinders, they tend to filter out a lot of reality.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
Beofryn Sedorak
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:12:00 -
[3931] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote: It's near impossible for me to see a long term future of CCP that doesn't involve avatar based game play in the vein of Incarna/WiS. It may not come as part of EVE, but it will certainly play a role in all of the New Eden Products.
Remove your emotional blinders, they tend to filter out a lot of reality.
http://youtu.be/4dRlgzE_7FI?t=28m43s |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5056
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:09:00 -
[3932] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote: It's near impossible for me to see a long term future of CCP that doesn't involve avatar based game play in the vein of Incarna/WiS. It may not come as part of EVE, but it will certainly play a role in all of the New Eden Products.
Remove your emotional blinders, they tend to filter out a lot of reality. http://youtu.be/4dRlgzE_7FI?t=28m43s
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/SBYJxIHG2gY/hqdefault.jpg The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Beofryn Sedorak
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:21:00 -
[3933] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote: It's near impossible for me to see a long term future of CCP that doesn't involve avatar based game play in the vein of Incarna/WiS. It may not come as part of EVE, but it will certainly play a role in all of the New Eden Products.
Remove your emotional blinders, they tend to filter out a lot of reality. http://youtu.be/4dRlgzE_7FI?t=28m43s http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/SBYJxIHG2gY/hqdefault.jpg
"We have not let go of this idea. We know there's a powerful idea here." - CCP_Pokethulhu. 10/25/2013
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5056
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:28:00 -
[3934] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote: It's near impossible for me to see a long term future of CCP that doesn't involve avatar based game play in the vein of Incarna/WiS. It may not come as part of EVE, but it will certainly play a role in all of the New Eden Products.
Remove your emotional blinders, they tend to filter out a lot of reality. http://youtu.be/4dRlgzE_7FI?t=28m43s http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/SBYJxIHG2gY/hqdefault.jpg "We have not let go of this idea. We know there's a powerful idea here." - CCP_Pokethulhu. 10/25/2013
"Acquiring WhiteWolf may also soon prove to be an Albatross around their collective necks. " - Doc Fury 10/17/2008
http://eve-search.com/thread/896318-0/page/147#4389
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
3128
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:31:00 -
[3935] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:"We have not let go of this idea. We know there's a powerful idea here." - CCP_Pokethulhu. 10/25/2013
yeh and firefly's getting another season |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1643
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:42:00 -
[3936] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:"We have not let go of this idea. We know there's a powerful idea here." - CCP_Pokethulhu. 10/25/2013
yeh and firefly's getting another season
C'mon Benny, there are some boundaries even in trolling I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
865
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:46:00 -
[3937] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:yeh and firefly's getting another season
That was uncalled for. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1334
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 20:06:00 -
[3938] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:yeh and firefly's getting another season That was uncalled for.
The correct reply, is...
'I aim to misbehave' Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
148
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 20:22:00 -
[3939] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Ubat Batuk wrote:You need ground shaking stuff at this point:
- WiS as walk in Station, Structure and Spaceship with aggression and ability to kill with a gun or knife - Ship paint workshop like the character one - Serious change to hangars: they need to be walkable, good looking and hold all my ships at the same time - Serious DUST integration to the point that all current EVE players can play DUST on PC without having to switch to another game - New type of missions that are either DUST related or WiS related
And then if CCP is really into Oculus, then adapt the whole of EVE to be used the with the FB device, preferably an alternative one.
Those are my 2 cents.. Check the quote in my sig. CCP isn't going to ignore real EVE content to cater to roleplayers again.
So are we saying that whatever someone at CCP says is right? Sorry. See the WoD results. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1114
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 20:29:00 -
[3940] - Quote
Rhes wrote: Check the quote in my sig. CCP isn't going to ignore real EVE content to cater to roleplayers again.
1) that's not what your sig says;
2) implying that CCP catering to roleplayers was the problem;
3) implying that Goons are not some of the biggest roleplayers in the whole game. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
|
Sibyyl
580
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 20:30:00 -
[3941] - Quote
Doc Fury says he doesn't care but making lots of posts in a WIS thread. Interesting. Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI |
Kuronaga
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
252
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 21:06:00 -
[3942] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:"We have not let go of this idea. We know there's a powerful idea here." - CCP_Pokethulhu. 10/25/2013
yeh and firefly's getting another season
You're a horrible person.
I'm not even sure you are a person. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5065
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 21:10:00 -
[3943] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Doc Fury says he doesn't care...
Citation needed.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Victor Andall
Heleneto Holdings
436
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 21:43:00 -
[3944] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote: It's near impossible for me to see a long term future of CCP that doesn't involve avatar based game play in the vein of Incarna/WiS. It may not come as part of EVE, but it will certainly play a role in all of the New Eden Products.
Remove your emotional blinders, they tend to filter out a lot of reality. http://youtu.be/4dRlgzE_7FI?t=28m43s http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/SBYJxIHG2gY/hqdefault.jpg "We have not let go of this idea. We know there's a powerful idea here." - CCP_Pokethulhu. 10/25/2013
Did you miss the part where they fired everyone earlier this month? I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do? |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1335
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 21:51:00 -
[3945] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:
Did you miss the part where they fired everyone earlier this month?
In a totally different game that was a drain on CCP's budgets with no hope of ever making the money back. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5066
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 21:53:00 -
[3946] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Victor Andall wrote:
Did you miss the part where they fired everyone earlier this month?
In a totally different game that was a drain on CCP's budgets with no hope of ever making the money back.
You know, you really just described WIS.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Victor Andall
Heleneto Holdings
436
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 21:56:00 -
[3947] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Victor Andall wrote:
Did you miss the part where they fired everyone earlier this month?
In a totally different game that was a drain on CCP's budgets with no hope of ever making the money back.
Same people who were working on the technology for WiS if I recall correctly? I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do? |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1346
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 22:26:00 -
[3948] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Victor Andall wrote:
Did you miss the part where they fired everyone earlier this month?
In a totally different game that was a drain on CCP's budgets with no hope of ever making the money back. You know, you really just described WIS.
SC backers approved this concept as you can see. Or is it just a Chris Roberts magic name? When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1336
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 22:28:00 -
[3949] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Victor Andall wrote:
Did you miss the part where they fired everyone earlier this month?
In a totally different game that was a drain on CCP's budgets with no hope of ever making the money back. Same people who were working on the technology for WiS if I recall correctly?
Doesn't mean it's the same thing. If I remember rightly, the wod engine was a fork of the incarna engine used in the cq, which ended the possibility of shared resources as the original cq engine just wasn't up to the task. Point is, getting rid of wod doesn't change the state of play for wis. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5067
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 22:35:00 -
[3950] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Victor Andall wrote:
Did you miss the part where they fired everyone earlier this month?
In a totally different game that was a drain on CCP's budgets with no hope of ever making the money back. You know, you really just described WIS. SC backers approved this concept as you can see. Or is it just a Chris Roberts magic name?
SC backers approved theme park content and game play which is not available yet. CCP backers approved spaceships and PVP and the fixing/updating of existing features.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1336
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 22:36:00 -
[3951] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Victor Andall wrote:
Did you miss the part where they fired everyone earlier this month?
In a totally different game that was a drain on CCP's budgets with no hope of ever making the money back. You know, you really just described WIS.
I respectfully disagree as always, it's my opinion that avatar content would be a pivotal moment in the direction of ccp, they were more than willing to bank their future on it once before and had a strategic plan for revenue, meaning that it must have been feasible. This doesn't change the fact that they botched the implementation of it. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5069
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 22:39:00 -
[3952] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Victor Andall wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Victor Andall wrote:
Did you miss the part where they fired everyone earlier this month?
In a totally different game that was a drain on CCP's budgets with no hope of ever making the money back. Same people who were working on the technology for WiS if I recall correctly? Doesn't mean it's the same thing. If I remember rightly, the wod engine was a fork of the incarna engine used in the cq, which ended the possibility of shared resources as the original cq engine just wasn't up to the task. Point is, getting rid of wod doesn't change the state of play for wis.
I think you may be confusing the issue with technology capability, when it's simply a matter of no executable and deliverable game plan that meets significant player expectations.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1347
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 22:55:00 -
[3953] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Victor Andall wrote:
Did you miss the part where they fired everyone earlier this month?
In a totally different game that was a drain on CCP's budgets with no hope of ever making the money back. You know, you really just described WIS. SC backers approved this concept as you can see. Or is it just a Chris Roberts magic name? SC backers approved theme park content and game play which is not available yet. CCP backers approved spaceships and PVP and the fixing/updating of existing features.
Not available yet? Tell me what is not relevant NOW. And where in SC you don't get spaceships and PVP? What is different it will not have null space and people pushing F1 in a massive blobfests. I don't think it's a must have for every game, and sandbox in eve is more like a freedom to misbehave or behave in an orderly manner, CCP have all the strings in their hands. That is what draws people to EVE. Avatars or spaceships, doesn't really matter if you could switch models, and stick to the general EVE "space is harsh and you can do what you want" idea. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1179
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 22:58:00 -
[3954] - Quote
Latest rumour is that EVE: legion is either dust on PC or a standalone game for WiS. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5071
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 23:05:00 -
[3955] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote: Not available yet? Tell me what is not relevant NOW. And where in SC you don't get spaceships and PVP? What is different it will not have null space and people pushing F1 in a massive blobfests. I don't think it's a must have for every game, and sandbox in eve is more like a freedom to misbehave or behave in an orderly manner, CCP have all the strings in their hands. That is what draws people to EVE. Avatars or spaceships, doesn't really matter if you could switch models, and stick to the general EVE "space is harsh and you can do what you want" idea.
Why can't you or I play SC right now?
That's pretty darn relevant.
It does not matter what SC backers approve or not. What matters is who's providing entertainment TODAY worthy of paying money for. Right now you must think that's CCP or you would be playing something else, and not here where you are adding to CCP's balance sheet.. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1347
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 23:13:00 -
[3956] - Quote
One more thing, Eve would probably lost their current rating because the sort of misbehaving with avatars on current EVE universe should get "murder with cold blood and then go to brothel" kind of level. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1180
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 00:11:00 -
[3957] - Quote
Some screenshots from the now canceled world of darkness game are starting to surface
http://themittani.com/news/world-darkness-images-and-manual-leaked EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
|
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
380
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 00:31:00 -
[3958] - Quote
Repost of moderated post has been removed.
Forum rule 11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
|
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
153
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 00:45:00 -
[3959] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Latest rumour is that EVE: legion is either dust on PC or a standalone game for WiS.
Stand alone is as good as nothing. You are back to the starting point with the integration issues etc. I want one game, not many games. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
527
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 13:50:00 -
[3960] - Quote
Hope we see some WiS at Fanfest.
Looks like we could've had fully functional WiS by now. |
|
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
1027
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 14:22:00 -
[3961] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Latest rumour is that EVE: legion is either dust on PC or a standalone game for WiS. PC version of Dust according to drunken devs in Iceland. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
Kuronaga
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
252
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 15:21:00 -
[3962] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Flamespar wrote:Latest rumour is that EVE: legion is either dust on PC or a standalone game for WiS. PC version of Dust according to drunken devs in Iceland.
Major mistake if true.
Keyboard and Mouse support is already available, they just need to not be clowns about emulating it and give it raw input. The game would work fine on PS4, it just needs to ditch PS3's hardware limitations.
Secondly, putting it on PC will do nothing for the game as far as population goes. PC audience is always smaller.
All it really CAN do is introduce hackers to the equation. If that happens, I'm out. |
Beofryn Sedorak
34
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 15:33:00 -
[3963] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Flamespar wrote:Latest rumour is that EVE: legion is either dust on PC or a standalone game for WiS. PC version of Dust according to drunken devs in Iceland. Major mistake if true. Keyboard and Mouse support is already available, they just need to not be clowns about emulating it and give it raw input. The game would work fine on PS4, it just needs to ditch PS3's hardware limitations. Secondly, putting it on PC will do nothing for the game as far as population goes. PC audience is always smaller. All it really CAN do is introduce hackers to the equation. If that happens, I'm out.
On PS3 they're grasping for an entirely new audience. (Console players)
On PC They have an established audience to tap into and then expand upon. (Existing CCP fans)
I read something just yesterday that the PC market is now exceeding the console gaming market. I can't recall where I read it, so if someone else has any insight as to the validity of this claim please share it with us.
As for "All it can do" That's an incredibly short sighted and frankly ignorant statement. Is there greater risk of cheaters on PC? My opinion would be yes. Is that a strong enough reason to NOT come to PC? While it's worth consideration while making the decision, By itself I wouldn't say it's reason enough to not deploy to PC. There are plenty of FPS shooters on PC that are successful despite the risk of cheaters.
As for "[other things] it can do" It can increase the the connectivity between the two community's as you will have a greatly increased number of players that are playing both and we'd likely see a forum section added to the EVE forums for it.
As for putting it on the PS4. If it came to PC, that in itself doesn't tell us that they WON'T release to PS4 also, They're already making Valkyrie a multiple platform product and Dust is already on the Unreal engine (easy to port to multiple platforms). Additionally, if they bring it to PC we'll like see a serious bump in the overall quality of the graphics potential which would also lend itself to the PS4 nicely too.
|
Beofryn Sedorak
34
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 15:36:00 -
[3964] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Flamespar wrote:Latest rumour is that EVE: legion is either dust on PC or a standalone game for WiS. PC version of Dust according to drunken devs in Iceland.
If you're trolling, I loathe you -.-
If the drunk dev truly exists and made this claim, I hope he wasn't drunk trolling...
I will be very excited if this is true though! |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
527
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 16:16:00 -
[3965] - Quote
DUST coming to PC would be a huge mistake. Sure, I'd love to play it on my PC, but it just doesn't make sense for CCP or the DUST community. We'll find out tomorrow though. |
Kuronaga
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
253
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 00:02:00 -
[3966] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Kuronaga wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Flamespar wrote:Latest rumour is that EVE: legion is either dust on PC or a standalone game for WiS. PC version of Dust according to drunken devs in Iceland. Major mistake if true. Keyboard and Mouse support is already available, they just need to not be clowns about emulating it and give it raw input. The game would work fine on PS4, it just needs to ditch PS3's hardware limitations. Secondly, putting it on PC will do nothing for the game as far as population goes. PC audience is always smaller. All it really CAN do is introduce hackers to the equation. If that happens, I'm out. On PS3 they're grasping for an entirely new audience. (Console players) On PC They have an established audience to tap into and then expand upon. (Existing CCP fans) I read something just yesterday that the PC market is now exceeding the console gaming market. I can't recall where I read it, so if someone else has any insight as to the validity of this claim please share it with us. As for "All it can do" That's an incredibly short sighted and frankly ignorant statement. Is there greater risk of cheaters on PC? My opinion would be yes. Is that a strong enough reason to NOT come to PC? While it's worth consideration while making the decision, By itself I wouldn't say it's reason enough to not deploy to PC. There are plenty of FPS shooters on PC that are successful despite the risk of cheaters. As for "[other things] it can do" It can increase the the connectivity between the two community's as you will have a greatly increased number of players that are playing both and we'd likely see a forum section added to the EVE forums for it. Additionally, it would open up greater options for connectivity between the two games. Possibly even the platform to develop WiS on. As for putting it on the PS4. If it came to PC, that in itself doesn't tell us that they WON'T release to PS4 also, They're already making Valkyrie a multiple platform product and Dust is already on the Unreal engine (easy to port to multiple platforms). Additionally, if they bring it to PC we'll likely see a serious bump in the overall quality of the graphics potential which would also lend itself to the PS4 nicely too.
Don't care.
If they put it on PC the integrity of the games legitimacy becomes compromised. There will be hackers and I will not play it.
It's a F2P game. A hacker risks literally nothing when he decides to be a douche. It would be pure chaos.
I like keyboard and mouse, and I prefer the power of my PC. But not enough to tolerate hackers in a game with more meaning attached to it than a round of counter-strike.
If you've seen how slow CCP's customer service is for Dust 514, you would know they haven't a chance in hell of keeping up the rampant amount of hacking that will take place. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1345
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 07:29:00 -
[3967] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Kuronaga wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Flamespar wrote:Latest rumour is that EVE: legion is either dust on PC or a standalone game for WiS. PC version of Dust according to drunken devs in Iceland. Major mistake if true. Keyboard and Mouse support is already available, they just need to not be clowns about emulating it and give it raw input. The game would work fine on PS4, it just needs to ditch PS3's hardware limitations. Secondly, putting it on PC will do nothing for the game as far as population goes. PC audience is always smaller. All it really CAN do is introduce hackers to the equation. If that happens, I'm out. On PS3 they're grasping for an entirely new audience. (Console players) On PC They have an established audience to tap into and then expand upon. (Existing CCP fans) I read something just yesterday that the PC market is now exceeding the console gaming market. I can't recall where I read it, so if someone else has any insight as to the validity of this claim please share it with us. As for "All it can do" That's an incredibly short sighted and frankly ignorant statement. Is there greater risk of cheaters on PC? My opinion would be yes. Is that a strong enough reason to NOT come to PC? While it's worth consideration while making the decision, By itself I wouldn't say it's reason enough to not deploy to PC. There are plenty of FPS shooters on PC that are successful despite the risk of cheaters. As for "[other things] it can do" It can increase the the connectivity between the two community's as you will have a greatly increased number of players that are playing both and we'd likely see a forum section added to the EVE forums for it. Additionally, it would open up greater options for connectivity between the two games. Possibly even the platform to develop WiS on. As for putting it on the PS4. If it came to PC, that in itself doesn't tell us that they WON'T release to PS4 also, They're already making Valkyrie a multiple platform product and Dust is already on the Unreal engine (easy to port to multiple platforms). Additionally, if they bring it to PC we'll likely see a serious bump in the overall quality of the graphics potential which would also lend itself to the PS4 nicely too. Don't care. If they put it on PC the integrity of the games legitimacy becomes compromised. There will be hackers and I will not play it. It's a F2P game. A hacker risks literally nothing when he decides to be a douche. It would be pure chaos. I like keyboard and mouse, and I prefer the power of my PC. But not enough to tolerate hackers in a game with more meaning attached to it than a round of counter-strike or battlefield where at the very least decent servers are capable of self-policing. If you've seen how slow CCP's customer service is for Dust 514, you would know they haven't a chance in hell of keeping up the rampant amount of hacking that will take place.
Eve is a pc game, and I'm not aware of it being hacked or do you mean something else with the term 'hacked'?
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1181
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 07:37:00 -
[3968] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Eve is a pc game, and I'm not aware of it being hacked or do you mean something else with the term 'hacked'?
I think he's referring to aimbotters, lag switchers, people who modify the game client, or use third party applications to their own advantage.
APB when it was first released is a good example of how cheaters and hackers can ruin a game. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Evelyn Meiyi
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
145
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 08:01:00 -
[3969] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote: It's a F2P game. A hacker risks literally nothing when he decides to be a douche. It would be pure chaos.
Except for jail time for violation of 1986's Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, Federal charges under Title II of the Patriot Act, and a few hefty fines if they actually cause damage while in there. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1182
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 13:55:00 -
[3970] - Quote
So. EVE: Legion is confirmed as Dust on PC (though dust will continue on PS3)
So avatar gameplay on PC in the EVE universe is a reality.
Suck my fat one haters. You lost.
Biomass is that way ---> EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
|
Beofryn Sedorak
34
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 14:00:00 -
[3971] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:So. EVE: Legion is confirmed as Dust on PC (though dust will continue on PS3)
So avatar gameplay on PC in the EVE universe is a reality.
Suck my fat one haters. You lost.
Biomass is that way --->
#winning |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5117
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 14:08:00 -
[3972] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Flamespar wrote:So. EVE: Legion is confirmed as Dust on PC (though dust will continue on PS3)
So avatar gameplay on PC in the EVE universe is a reality.
Suck my fat one haters. You lost.
Biomass is that way ---> #winning
LMFAO
I didn't want that coffee anyway...
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1836
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 14:34:00 -
[3973] - Quote
So Project Legion you say? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
1031
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 14:44:00 -
[3974] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Flamespar wrote:Latest rumour is that EVE: legion is either dust on PC or a standalone game for WiS. PC version of Dust according to drunken devs in Iceland. If you're trolling, I loathe you -.- If the drunk dev truly exists and made this claim, I hope he wasn't drunk trolling... I will be very excited if this is true though! I guess I didn't troll you after all. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
Solecist Project's Alt
Wildly Inept Pacifists
11
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 14:52:00 -
[3975] - Quote
Prematurely claiming victory is a sign of an inflated ego.
No where is mentioned that this is about WiS, or that *we* can use *our chars* for this.
We know nothing yet. |
Beofryn Sedorak
35
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 15:05:00 -
[3976] - Quote
Solecist Project's Alt wrote:Prematurely claiming victory is a sign of an inflated ego.
No where is mentioned that this is about WiS, or that *we* can use *our chars* for this.
We know nothing yet.
Many people that want WiS stations are more specifically asking for first person avatar based gaming. Also, When you WALK AROUND IN THE STATION IN DUST you're WALKING IN STATION.
Victory has been achieved. I don't care if I can't use my EVE toon. I hope it will come some day, but I won't be butt hurt if I can't.
|
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
382
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 15:10:00 -
[3977] - Quote
Its a potential bridge for the future. Sure, it ain't WIS right here, right now, but it strikes me as a far better racehorse to saddle your hopes to than the travesty of Incarna. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
325
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 15:22:00 -
[3978] - Quote
Solecist Project's Alt wrote:Prematurely claiming victory is a sign of an inflated ego.
No where is mentioned that this is about WiS, or that *we* can use *our chars* for this.
We know nothing yet. Ok, ok. BHiS (bunnyhopping in stations) it is then. As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1346
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 16:11:00 -
[3979] - Quote
Solecist Project's Alt wrote:Prematurely claiming victory is a sign of an inflated ego.
No where is mentioned that this is about WiS, or that *we* can use *our chars* for this.
We know nothing yet.
It's a step closer, so I welcome the step, I agree it isn't victory, but it's a great decision and it will satisfy my needs for quite a while, possibly enough time for CCP to carry on the fine work of bringing EVE up to date.
The two things are not incompatible. I hope Legion is a gem and that CCP pull of an astounding success with it. If I can fight on planets, in space and eventually in stations, what more could I ask for? Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
24958
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 16:12:00 -
[3980] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:It's a step closer, so I welcome the step, I agree it isn't victory, but it's a great decision and it will satisfy my needs for quite a while, possibly enough time for CCP to carry on the fine work of bringing EVE up to date.
The two things are not incompatible. I hope Legion is a gem and that CCP pull of an astounding success with it. If I can fight on planets, in space and eventually in stations, what more could I ask for? Indeed... against better judgement, I AM excited for that new project. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM) |
|
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1184
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 20:54:00 -
[3981] - Quote
With Legion. All the tech for multi avatar environments will be there.
The only down side is that in order to explore that aspect of EVE you will need to download a different game and use a different character. At least it is free to play.
It is only a matter of time until they port some aspects of that to EVE EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 21:10:00 -
[3982] - Quote
Frankly, I expect the two to bridge. They keep talking about integrating the games closer.
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1354
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 21:41:00 -
[3983] - Quote
I am really good with FPS and I am playing primarily on PC so I am very happy.
I was second on our unreal tournament back in the study years, and there was 20 people us there in the tournament, all gamers. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
548
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 23:18:00 -
[3984] - Quote
Going back on topic...
Hilmar said that there will be more info 'next year' on WiS at last year's EVE keynote (or was it CCP Presents?). I do hope he follows through on this tomorrow.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1346
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 23:26:00 -
[3985] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Going back on topic...
Hilmar said that there will be more info 'next year' on WiS at last year's EVE keynote (or was it CCP Presents?). I do hope he follows through on this tomorrow.
It will probably be that there's no solid plans for a couple of years at least but legion will incorporate some aspects of wis etc and be a bridge between the two.
Personally I'm thrilled with legion it gives me hope that eventually well have the full blown avatar experience at some point in the future, but in the meantime it will keep me happy and keep me subscribed. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Myxx
727
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 00:17:00 -
[3986] - Quote
hopefully, with this new release structure, they can be ambitious again and get WiS working properly. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5683
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 00:18:00 -
[3987] - Quote
Myxx wrote:hopefully, with this new release structure, they can be ambitious again and get WiS working properly.
You mean Legion, the 1st person shooter? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Beofryn Sedorak
35
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 00:22:00 -
[3988] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Myxx wrote:hopefully, with this new release structure, they can be ambitious again and get WiS working properly. You mean Legion, the 1st person shooter?
I could see them using Legion as a platform to develop the gameplay and environments for the WiS stuff, then link in the other games (EVE, Valkyrie, (RTS,MOBA,SPORTS??)).
It's by far the closest product to the vision and a likely candidate for development efforts should they choose to work towards the "Let them all hang out in the same room!" vision. |
Chinwe Rhei
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 04:43:00 -
[3989] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Myxx wrote:hopefully, with this new release structure, they can be ambitious again and get WiS working properly. You mean Legion, the 1st person shooter? I could see them using Legion as a platform to develop the gameplay and environments for the WiS stuff, then link in the other games (EVE, Valkyrie, (RTS,MOBA,SPORTS??)). It's by far the closest product to the vision and a likely candidate for development efforts should they choose to work towards the "Let them all hang out in the same room!" vision.
They just need to have an ability to start Legion from within EvE and and ability to log in EvE characters to Legion (presumably in a Dust-like suit so it wouldn't need to reneder your face and body but it would keep your name and corp and such).
And then they can totally say add a new "ground combat" exploration signature, that you could scan in EvE, and then when you get to it you press a button, you log off from EvE and strat in Legion, do the mission and when it ends you get back to EvE.
That's pretty much WiS as was promissed with a long ass loading screen. As long as the integration to EvE is solid anything is doable.
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1317
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 09:28:00 -
[3990] - Quote
If Legion is properly done, it will be a addition to the EvE Online universe sandbox. This can bring "WiS" for you guys :) The Tears Must Flow |
|
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1186
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 09:42:00 -
[3991] - Quote
I have a suspicion that "CCP Presents" may have a demo where a Valkyrie pilot, Legion merc, and a Capsuleer walk into a bar.
The Valkyrie will sit in a chair looking around saying "OMG IT"S LIKE I'M ACTUALLY THERE" The Legion merc will bunny hop about the place shooting stuff. The Capsuleer will wet their pants and collapse into hysterics screaming "OMG WiS. DESTROYER OF WORLDS" EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1373
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 17:10:00 -
[3992] - Quote
Few new clothes from art panel will be making it into the game, cool. Not a big thing like you would want but still nice. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1351
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:40:00 -
[3993] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Few new clothes from art panel will be making it into the game, cool. Not a big thing like you would want but still nice.
I'm always for new clothes, I change my wardrobe pretty frequently, I'd like to be able to keep the same character portrait though regardless of clothing as it's sort of like an Eve ID badge. As capsuleers we have an image that we project to the rest of the population to facilitate communication whilst we're floating in the goo, so my character portrait shouldn't make much difference to my actual appearance when in the cq etc. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Beofryn Sedorak
37
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:43:00 -
[3994] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Few new clothes from art panel will be making it into the game, cool. Not a big thing like you would want but still nice. I'm always for new clothes, I change my wardrobe pretty frequently, I'd like to be able to keep the same character portrait though regardless of clothing as it's sort of like an Eve ID badge. As capsuleers we have an image that we project to the rest of the population to facilitate communication whilst we're floating in the goo, so my character portrait shouldn't make much difference to my actual appearance when in the cq etc.
I complete agree that you should not be required to change your avatar every time you change your appearance. |
Alanna Shihari
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:43:00 -
[3995] - Quote
Was really hoping for some news on WiS |
Myxx
728
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:44:00 -
[3996] - Quote
Meh, no new news regarding this. Its increasingly looking like Star Citizen will get more of my business. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
333
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:48:00 -
[3997] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Meh, no new news regarding this. Its increasingly looking like Star Citizen will get more of my business. Well, CCP Manifest did say "**** the door, open the gate" so... take that how you will. Pretty much only thing that has been said regarding it for a long time. As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1353
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 18:52:00 -
[3998] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Meh, no new news regarding this. Its increasingly looking like Star Citizen will get more of my business.
See this
hows that for a future vision.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFTUazuGdTw
Very Excited.
If someday we get this, SC will be history. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Master Flakattack
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:10:00 -
[3999] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I have a suspicion that "CCP Presents" may have a demo where a Valkyrie pilot, Legion merc, and a Capsuleer walk into a bar.
The Valkyrie will sit in a chair looking around saying "OMG IT"S LIKE I'M ACTUALLY THERE" The Legion merc will bunny hop about the place shooting stuff. The Capsuleer will realize they're wasting their time and go back to their ship.
Fixed that for you |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5252
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:12:00 -
[4000] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Meh, no new news regarding this. Its increasingly looking like Star Citizen will get more of my business.
O.K.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
Myxx
728
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:20:00 -
[4001] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Myxx wrote:Meh, no new news regarding this. Its increasingly looking like Star Citizen will get more of my business. See this hows that for a future vision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFTUazuGdTwVery Excited. If someday we get this, SC will be history. Yeah... if you actually think that that will ever happen, I've got a bridge to sell you in the Nevada desert. I don't buy into that. Shiny trailer... not actually going to happen. CCP will see something shiny and wander off as they usually do. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1164
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:22:00 -
[4002] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Myxx wrote:Meh, no new news regarding this. Its increasingly looking like Star Citizen will get more of my business. See this hows that for a future vision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFTUazuGdTwVery Excited. If someday we get this, SC will be history. Yeah... if you actually think that that will ever happen, I've got a bridge to sell you in the Nevada desert. says someone lusting after sc... Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á sig by Doc Fury -¬ 2014 Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1358
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:26:00 -
[4003] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Myxx wrote:Meh, no new news regarding this. Its increasingly looking like Star Citizen will get more of my business. See this hows that for a future vision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFTUazuGdTwVery Excited. If someday we get this, SC will be history. Yeah... if you actually think that that will ever happen, I've got a bridge to sell you in the Nevada desert. I don't buy into that. Shiny trailer... not actually going to happen. CCP will see something shiny and wander off as they usually do.
It works for me, I'm happy with the whole Legion thing, someday it'l lead to WIS, it's inevitable. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Myxx
729
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:35:00 -
[4004] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Myxx wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Myxx wrote:Meh, no new news regarding this. Its increasingly looking like Star Citizen will get more of my business. See this hows that for a future vision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFTUazuGdTwVery Excited. If someday we get this, SC will be history. Yeah... if you actually think that that will ever happen, I've got a bridge to sell you in the Nevada desert. says someone lusting after sc... SC currently has a better track record of being transparent and doing what they claim they will than CCP has over the last decade and a year. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1374
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:37:00 -
[4005] - Quote
This trailer basically sums up what i and not only I have been writing on this forums, I have this feeling, that this is not their original idea, it was our idea.
When Dust was coming out, i wrote posts about how i have seen it on PC, mercenaries fighting on ships and on planets, then I wrote the post about carriers that could have actual gamers in those fighters in their fleets, having one character thaat can do it all, basically integrating it as much as they can. Well, the trailer is all about that plus the exploration of new spaces. But why, why now, not 2 years ago?
Well, better late than never i think. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1166
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:44:00 -
[4006] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Myxx wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Myxx wrote:Meh, no new news regarding this. Its increasingly looking like Star Citizen will get more of my business. See this hows that for a future vision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFTUazuGdTwVery Excited. If someday we get this, SC will be history. Yeah... if you actually think that that will ever happen, I've got a bridge to sell you in the Nevada desert. says someone lusting after sc... SC currently has a better track record of being transparent and doing what they claim they will than CCP has over the last decade and a year. Dose it?
Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á sig by Doc Fury -¬ 2014 Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
1033
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:01:00 -
[4007] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Flamespar wrote:Latest rumour is that EVE: legion is either dust on PC or a standalone game for WiS. PC version of Dust according to drunken devs in Iceland. If you're trolling, I loathe you -.- If the drunk dev truly exists and made this claim, I hope he wasn't drunk trolling... I will be very excited if this is true though! I guess I didn't troll you after all. Also with the talk about scavenging, maybe we will get a bit of the action from the avatar exploration prototyping they did last year as well. Now next stop is CCP Presents tomorrow to see how Legion will tie in with EVE and Valkyrie, I hope we can use the same characters in all three games. And it seems I was correct on the single character across all three games as well. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
|
Jara Blackwind
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 21:26:00 -
[4008] - Quote
Awesome news. Really really better than I hoped ever to hear about the EVE franchise.
Resubscribing for a month to show my appreciation to the direction CCP is going. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1190
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 23:57:00 -
[4009] - Quote
Avatars sure do feature heavily in that trailer.
Plus OMG an actual beard EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5260
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 00:00:00 -
[4010] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Myxx wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Myxx wrote:Meh, no new news regarding this. Its increasingly looking like Star Citizen will get more of my business. See this hows that for a future vision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFTUazuGdTwVery Excited. If someday we get this, SC will be history. Yeah... if you actually think that that will ever happen, I've got a bridge to sell you in the Nevada desert. says someone lusting after sc... SC currently has a better track record of being transparent and doing what they claim they will than CCP has over the last decade and a year.
Where can I play this game so I can judge for myself?
Or is the game itself transparent too?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
Kuronaga
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
255
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 03:35:00 -
[4011] - Quote
All this trailer has shown me is that the art and trailer team are clearly more competent than the rest of the staff. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
421
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 04:50:00 -
[4012] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:All this trailer has shown me is that the art and trailer team are clearly more competent than the rest of the staff.
Oh cmon, don't be so pessimistic. Hillmar has also shown us his mad mesmerizing skills by getting a crowd of nerds to shout "destroy" and "CCP" after him. Crowd Control Productions at its best. Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Erica Dusette
Rolled Out
6795
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 04:58:00 -
[4013] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:Kuronaga wrote:All this trailer has shown me is that the art and trailer team are clearly more competent than the rest of the staff. Oh cmon, don't be so pessimistic. Hillmar has also shown us his mad mesmerizing skills by getting a crowd of nerds to shout "destroy" and "CCP" after him. Crowd Control Productions at its best. How much is SC paying you to come and incessantly shitup EVE's forums about it's unfinished game?
Major (Ret.) Caldari Militia | Part-time wormhole pirate | Full-time super model Gÿá Wormhole Diary | GÖí #roloswag
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mkint
1178
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:24:00 -
[4014] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:raven666wings wrote:Kuronaga wrote:All this trailer has shown me is that the art and trailer team are clearly more competent than the rest of the staff. Oh cmon, don't be so pessimistic. Hillmar has also shown us his mad mesmerizing skills by getting a crowd of nerds to shout "destroy" and "CCP" after him. Crowd Control Productions at its best. How much is SC paying you to come and incessantly shitup EVE's forums about it's unfinished game? Um... welcome to the modern entertainment industry? The ability to make trailers reflects... the ability to make trailers. Nothing more, nothing less. Pretending that the trailer reflects any intention to revive an abandoned and dead line of development (space barbie) is laughable. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Erica Dusette
Rolled Out
6796
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:27:00 -
[4015] - Quote
mkint wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:raven666wings wrote:Kuronaga wrote:All this trailer has shown me is that the art and trailer team are clearly more competent than the rest of the staff. Oh cmon, don't be so pessimistic. Hillmar has also shown us his mad mesmerizing skills by getting a crowd of nerds to shout "destroy" and "CCP" after him. Crowd Control Productions at its best. How much is SC paying you to come and incessantly shitup EVE's forums about it's unfinished game? Um... welcome to the modern entertainment industry? The ability to make trailers reflects... the ability to make trailers. Nothing more, nothing less. Pretending that the trailer reflects any intention to revive an abandoned and dead line of development (space barbie) is laughable. What in God's name has that got to do with ol' mate up there trolling up OOPE and now GD with his pro-SC propaganda?
Major (Ret.) Caldari Militia | Part-time wormhole pirate | Full-time super model Gÿá Wormhole Diary | GÖí #420roloswag
|
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
207
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 05:55:00 -
[4016] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:All this trailer has shown me is that the art and trailer team are clearly more competent than the rest of the staff. Trailers like these aren't normally made in-house, so chances are that CCP didn't "make" it, just scripted what they wanted.
That's just speculation on my part, I have no facts to back it up. But there are companies that specialise in making cg trailers for games, I think Bioware and Blizzard use some for their trailers. I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums. |
Tomiko Kawase
Kite Co. Space Trucking
149
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 09:40:00 -
[4017] - Quote
CCP trailers are made by their video production / marketing team. These are not made by a CG company (that would be incredibly expensive for the amount of trailers they make). Bombastic vintage soul with a driving groove, brass & male vocal |
Sibyyl
640
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 11:05:00 -
[4018] - Quote
Can we stop polluting this discussion with Star Citizen? I find the apples to oranges comparison a bit childish..
Edit: This is the line in the intro to EVE article that hooked me most on the game: "In EVE, you don't fly a spaceship, you command it."
Your twitchy spaceship flying game has nothing to do with EVE. Please stop. Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1378
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 12:22:00 -
[4019] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Can we stop polluting this discussion with Star Citizen? I find the apples to oranges comparison a bit childish..
Edit: This is the line in the intro to EVE article that hooked me most on the game: "In EVE, you don't fly a spaceship, you command it."
Your twitchy spaceship flying game has nothing to do with EVE. Please stop.
Well, its becoming a war of worlds. The established EVE universe represented mostly by the 11 year old EVE online persistent universe and its Chronicles, versus new contender the Star Citizen world, looking like a newborn baby. Of the two game worlds I would still like to be a powerful capsuleer capable of jumping different clones, deceiving death, not a mere human in Star Citizen where you are a generic cannon fodder, no heroes, no Mittanis, No Chribbas, everyone will look so bland and mild because you will not be free to show of your cunning, leadership skills or be a real hero being fair to others, or having lots of PLEXs and being a space philanthropist. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues.
http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif |
Kuronaga
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
259
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 12:50:00 -
[4020] - Quote
I'd just like to have even half of the stuff CCP has advertised over the years. That'd probably be enough to shut me up permanently. |
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Gaellia Bonaventure
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2138
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 15:37:00 -
[4021] - Quote
Too bad the game rarely lives up to the production values of these trailers.
Then again, to be fair, it's hard to spice up a basic economic simulator to this degree..... Bring your possibles. |
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
209
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 21:04:00 -
[4022] - Quote
Just an idea for Avatar gameplay (but also to keep this thread kicking) but how about a blackmarket/criminal underworld?
Have Concord crack down on certain goods and dealings in high-sec that can't be openly traded or advertised. Pirate faction ships/modules/ammo, boosters, smartbombs, slaves, etc need to be smuggled to stations (a new use for blockade runners?) and to buy them you need to leave your ship and delve into the seedy underbelly of the station so that transactions remain "off the grid".
Low-level criminal contacts could provide high-sec missions for the infamous factions or factions with bad standing but require face-to-face meets to accept missions. Solid currency could replace Isk. Salvage, Rigs and Sleeper relics could become contraband and bounty hunting offices could be moved to these areas (bonuses to bounties if you deliver the body to the office).
Go for the full Blade Runner/Deus Ex look with grubby bars to met contacts, strip clubs to sell slaves and dancers, rickety stalls that trade in salvage and oddities, Warehouses run by crooked dock workers to create their own black market bazaars and cobbled together drug labs to create and research boosters.
A lot of this stuff could only be found by word of mouth and wouldn't show up on your Neocom. That way you could have law abiding capsuleers trading in Jita that never know of the darker commerce that occurs within the same station.
But like I said, just an idea. I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
427
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 02:46:00 -
[4023] - Quote
At this point I'd be happy and shouting "CCP is teh best!" multiple times if they just played a WiS trailer for me Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1118
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 04:17:00 -
[4024] - Quote
I have a feeling that Walking in Trailers is going to be the extent of what we see at least until the current development arc is finished, riding new star bases, corporation management, industry and sovereignty to player-built star gates.
And while the latest trailer is riveting and epic, I'm somewhat worried that the trailers have become more and more aspirational and less and less like the actual game. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5439
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 04:26:00 -
[4025] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:I have a feeling that Walking in Trailers is going to be the extent of what we see at least until the current development arc is finished, riding new star bases, corporation management, industry and sovereignty to player-built star gates.
And while the latest trailer is riveting and epic, I'm somewhat worried that the trailers have become more and more aspirational and less and less like the actual game.
Well...
I got news for you, the trailers haven't been representative of game play for a LONG time.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Naomi Hale
Children of New Eden
226
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 06:00:00 -
[4026] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:I have a feeling that Walking in Trailers is going to be the extent of what we see at least until the current development arc is finished, riding new star bases, corporation management, industry and sovereignty to player-built star gates.
And while the latest trailer is riveting and epic, I'm somewhat worried that the trailers have become more and more aspirational and less and less like the actual game.
But with the new six week update system we could see small aditions to avatar gameplay, a lot of the current and planned updates are more on the programming/ui side of things which frees up the art department. That said there are several new ship models for Kronos and then art for Valkyrie and Legion to work on... damn, they are busy actually.
I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1119
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 18:20:00 -
[4027] - Quote
Doc: Point conceded. I'm reminded of that huge industrial alliance that some guy in a Widow pissed off...
Naomi Hale wrote:But with the new six week update system we could see small aditions to avatar gameplay, a lot of the current and planned updates are more on the programming/ui side of things which frees up the art department. That said there are several new ship models for Kronos and then art for Valkyrie and Legion to work on... damn, they are busy actually.
Yeah, the thing about avatar gameplay is that it really is another game in terms of its scope, and it's not something that CCP can get wrong again. CCP should probably get Valkyrie out the door first, and either get Legion up and running or decide that it isn't feasible (with any luck, before they've wasted eight years on it, and preferably without enraging more of their customers), and get EVE patched up, looking good and running well before they can reasonably commit the manpower and time necessary to make it a meaningful expansion to the universe. If they want to, say, finish the character creator, or maybe tweak something here or there, or add assets, that would be nice.
It sounds like CCP Veritas' team is doing great work, the art team is really starting to deliver on the promise of V3, the industry rebalance is disruptive, necessarily, but it seems to be well thought through, and I'm greatly heartened by what I've read about CCP Rise's presentation on the new player experience under development... so I'm optimistic about the game generally. If it's good enough to distract me from my beloved avatars for a few more years, that'll do. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1197
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 03:33:00 -
[4028] - Quote
Does legion satisfy the WiS fans? EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 07:01:00 -
[4029] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Does legion satisfy the WiS fans? No because it doesn't have dance emotes.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Beofryn Sedorak
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 07:36:00 -
[4030] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Does legion satisfy the WiS fans?
I believe it's enough to keep many of them content, not satisfied.
A lot of the people that want avatar based gameplay are looking for more traditional social, or adventure mmo type game play.
I agree with Dersen Lowery in that WiS probably needs it's own product to tack onto the EVE product line to really do it right. I also could see Legion becoming the vessel the WiS gameplay get's built into. It's already mountains ahead of EVE or Valkyrie in term of similarities in player/game interaction. Once CCP get's the combat stuff down and is looking to expand game play experiences within Legion, it may be that adding (non-)combat (High sec vs low/null) station environments that provide social interaction while not on the planets might happen.
They've already stated they want you to be able to use one character for all three games at some point in the future. They've also expressed that "There's a powerful idea here, we haven't forgotten about it" (CCP Pockethulhu in regards to social game play "Behind the door"). While there are some that view anything that doesn't stroke their ego or satiate their bloodlust, or that brings anyone joy when they're trying to inflict misery upon others is a terrible idea, CCP is smart enough to ignore them and realize the importance and significance a bridge like a common station environment for everyone from all 3 games to directly interact in real time will have on the EVE Universe. One of the biggest benefits of tieing the three games into the same IP so strongly is that you will be able to Invest in all 3 games at the same time regardless of which one you feel like playing. Another big benefit is the "Cross pollination" someone that likes FPS but wouldn't ever otherwise consider trying out a spaceship MMO based on spreadsheets might now try it because it's directly related to their boots on the ground game play. EVE players will get to see if they actually want to dogfight (many say they do, but I'm sure not 100% of them will actually enjoy it :p). MOST importantly, When someone gets a little bored with one of the gameplay mechanics and decides to play a different game for a bit, There's a very strong encouragement fo that game to be one of the other CCP titles. All of these things can have significant impact on the stability and growth of CCP for many many years.
You can make all the terrible jokes about "Wizrds in space" or "Emoting in stations", Fortunately for the rest of us, Your vocal minority doesn't by itself have any actual impact on the business decisions that CCP make. They make their decisions on things mature people evaluate, Product viability, Market reception, Demographic saturation (And a million other things). They have a TON of experience in making games, You can toss some of the mistakes they've made on a pole and parade them around, But you can't deny that CCP has succesfully made a game that makes you irrationally passionate about things to the point that you'll make a fool of yourself repeatedly with the same repetitious garbage over and over and over again all because someone else is interested in something that you're not. If you want to talk about what would be bad things for CCP to do, it would be to base their decisions on the opinions of vocal minority's and nay sayers instead of rational thought and evaluation of detailed market analysis that we as non CCP employees aren't privy to.
But in all honesty, If the idea of WiS annoys you so much, You probably shouldn't spend so much time engrossing yourself in it's community. Just sayin it's kind of like intentionally torturing yourself. |
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 07:56:00 -
[4031] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:But you can't deny that CCP has succesfully made a game that makes you irrationally passionate about things to the point that you'll make a fool of yourself repeatedly with the same repetitious garbage over and over and over again all because someone else is interested in something that you're not. Just to clarify, CCP has successfully made a spaceship game that we are passionate about. They have yet to successfully produce anything else.
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:But in all honesty, If the idea of WiS annoys you so much, You probably shouldn't spend so much time engrossing yourself in it's community. Just sayin it's kind of like intentionally torturing yourself. There isn't a WiS community. There are a small handful of roleplayer trolls who won't let it go. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Beofryn Sedorak
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 07:59:00 -
[4032] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Just to clarify, CCP has successfully made a spaceship game that we are passionate about. They have yet to successfully produce anything else.
Thanks for clearing that up, I must have been crazy to think that all the outcry from the Dust community when legion was announced and would likely kill dust was born out of passion for something other than internet spaceships. I'd be lost without your infinite wisdom, insight, and guidance.
Man that was hard to say with a straight face! xD
|
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:00:00 -
[4033] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Rhes wrote:Just to clarify, CCP has successfully made a spaceship game that we are passionate about. They have yet to successfully produce anything else. Thanks for clearing that up, I must have been crazy to think that all the outcry from the Dust community when legion was announced and would likely kill dust was born out of passion for something other than internet spaceships. I'd be lost without your infinite wisdom, insight, and guidance. Man that was hard to say with a straight face! xD Haha you think Dust is a successful game. Again, just like with the WiS fetishists, you're letting a small group of vocal players trick you into thinking there is a large group behind them.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Solecist Project's Alt
Wildly Inept Pacifists
168
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:05:00 -
[4034] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Rhes wrote:Just to clarify, CCP has successfully made a spaceship game that we are passionate about. They have yet to successfully produce anything else. Thanks for clearing that up, I must have been crazy to think that all the outcry from the Dust community when legion was announced and would likely kill dust was born out of passion for something other than internet spaceships. I'd be lost without your infinite wisdom, insight, and guidance. Man that was hard to say with a straight face! xD Haha you think Dust is a successful game. Again, just like with the WiS fetishists, you're letting a small group of vocal players trick you into thinking there is a large group behind them. According to those who understand the financial report from CCP, DUST is profitable, thus it's successfull.
Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:09:00 -
[4035] - Quote
Solecist Project's Alt wrote:Rhes wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Rhes wrote:Just to clarify, CCP has successfully made a spaceship game that we are passionate about. They have yet to successfully produce anything else. Thanks for clearing that up, I must have been crazy to think that all the outcry from the Dust community when legion was announced and would likely kill dust was born out of passion for something other than internet spaceships. I'd be lost without your infinite wisdom, insight, and guidance. Man that was hard to say with a straight face! xD Haha you think Dust is a successful game. Again, just like with the WiS fetishists, you're letting a small group of vocal players trick you into thinking there is a large group behind them. According to those who understand the financial report from CCP, DUST is profitable, thus it's successfull. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant. If it was successful they would be working overtime to port it to PS4.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Beofryn Sedorak
43
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:13:00 -
[4036] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Rhes wrote:Just to clarify, CCP has successfully made a spaceship game that we are passionate about. They have yet to successfully produce anything else. Thanks for clearing that up, I must have been crazy to think that all the outcry from the Dust community when legion was announced and would likely kill dust was born out of passion for something other than internet spaceships. I'd be lost without your infinite wisdom, insight, and guidance. Man that was hard to say with a straight face! xD Haha you think Dust is a successful game. Again, just like with the WiS fetishists, you're letting a small group of vocal players trick you into thinking there is a large group behind them.
I very much so believe Dust is and will be a successful game. Success isn't only defined in terms of current users, it's also a measure of potential value, something Legion and Valkyrie are in no short supply of. if you look at how EVE has grown over the years, CCP is much more interested in the long term rather than Unsustainable explosive growth in a short time frame that sputters out after a year or two. They focus on building foundations and iterating upon them. This has been going on since EVE was released, It will continue happening for many many years to come.
I'm not surprised that you choose to be ignorant of such things as if true they would destroy your careful little pedestal you prop yourself up on. In the same way I don't allow your misguided hubris to affect my opinion, My belief in this doesn't stem from the voices of the tiny percentage of players of CCP games that actually know the forums exist. My belief that it is an inevitable future comes from trends in the social media consumption, Trends in game developments, failed and successful pioneering into wider ranges and styles of game play over many many years by countless game companies. But the most interesting thing is watching how threatened you feel over it and how desperate you are to put a lid on it before anyone should ever try it. Your actions speak far louder than your words do. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:18:00 -
[4037] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:CCP is much more interested in the long term rather than Unsustainable explosive growth in a short time frame that sputters out after a year or two. This is hilarious considering the only reason CCP is now like this is because of the summer of rage. Which was caused by WiS.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Beofryn Sedorak
43
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:23:00 -
[4038] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:CCP is much more interested in the long term rather than Unsustainable explosive growth in a short time frame that sputters out after a year or two. This is hilarious considering the only reason CCP is now like this is because of the summer of rage. Which was caused by WiS.
Summer of rage was caused by greed and neglected development on sapceships to satisfy that greed. Not because WiS existed. It is possible to work on other things at the same time they're working on spaceships. I'm surprised you haven't picked up on this despite it being explained to you over and over again. Makes me worry about you. |
Solecist Project's Alt
Wildly Inept Pacifists
168
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:24:00 -
[4039] - Quote
Quote:If it was successful they would be working overtime to port it to PS4. You have no insight in business decisions and your response to my post is irrelevant to the context.
You think opinions matter more than hard facts? Or do you think the financial report is a hoax?
Fine then. Considering the fact that 90% of your posts are biased crap and full of negativity towards others, I guess it's pointless to try to talk to you.
I'm not really willing to deal with weak minds like yours right now.
*sips chai latte*
|
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven
57
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:25:00 -
[4040] - Quote
It only makes sense that the next and the only new project is going to be about exploration of the Universe from person's perspective. Exploration of the world that is out there. |
|
Solecist Project's Alt
Wildly Inept Pacifists
169
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:26:00 -
[4041] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Rhes wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:CCP is much more interested in the long term rather than Unsustainable explosive growth in a short time frame that sputters out after a year or two. This is hilarious considering the only reason CCP is now like this is because of the summer of rage. Which was caused by WiS. Summer of rage was caused by greed and neglected development on sapceships to satisfy that greed. Not because WiS existed. It is possible to work on other things at the same time they're working on spaceships. I'm surprised you haven't picked up on this despite it being explained to you over and over again. Makes me worry about you. Argueing with weak minded people only drags you down to their level.
Negativity can be contagious.
I suggest withdrawing attention from him, because being ignored is the least he wants to be.
He will, of course, prominently display how he doesn't care. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
907
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:39:00 -
[4042] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:neglected development on sapceships. This is the first thing you've gotten right.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
907
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:45:00 -
[4043] - Quote
Solecist Project's Alt wrote:Argueing with weak minded people only drags you down to their level. It's too bad you people can't discuss this without resorting to personal insults which just causes ISD to butcher the threads.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Beofryn Sedorak
43
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:46:00 -
[4044] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:neglected development on sapceships. This is the first thing you've gotten right.
Fortunately your opinion of what I get "right" isn't the deciding factor in whether something is true or not. :) |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
907
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 08:49:00 -
[4045] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Rhes wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:neglected development on sapceships. This is the first thing you've gotten right. Fortunately your opinion of what I get "right" isn't the deciding factor in whether something is true or not. :) Here is what's true. CCP has given up on WiS and the team mentioned in the thread's title has been disbanded. Nowhere in CCP Seagull's plan for the next several years of Eve development is further WiS development mentioned.
The fact that you can't let it go, while amusing, is a little sad to witness.
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Solecist Project's Alt
Wildly Inept Pacifists
169
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 09:04:00 -
[4046] - Quote
*sips chai latte* |
Beofryn Sedorak
43
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 09:05:00 -
[4047] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Here is what's true. CCP has given up on WiS and the team mentioned in the thread's title has been disbanded. Nowhere in CCP Seagull's plan for the next several years of Eve development is further WiS development mentioned.
"CCP has given up on WiS" is an assumption you're making based on evidence that while supporting it, It doesn't prove it. You're not anymore privy to CCP's internal agenda and long term goals, therefore, you're incapable of stating this as fact.
"The team mentioned in this threads title has been disbanded." While being a true statement, Those of us that think rationally are capable of realizing it isn't exactly an impossibility to build a team for a project when it comes time to work on it.
"Nowhere in CCP Seagull's plan for the next several years of Eve development is further WiS development mentioned." While also true, I'm sure there are lots of things that will happen in the next 5 years that haven't been mentioned. It's a little ridiculous to think otherwise. But just in case that's not enough to prove that your argument isn't at all as bulletproof as you've convinced yourself it is, CCP Seagull is the Senior producer of EVE Online. Not CCP. Valkyrie, Dust, Legion, are all absent from Seagulls vision for the future. This is not because they're not a part of it, It's because she does EVE Online stuff while the Senior Producers for the other projects work on those. As several of us have pointed out, it's not likely that WiS will be a direct piece of EVE online, but more likely it will be part of Legion or it's own product to bridge the gap between the three games in a social environment making it very possible for it to not be anywhere in Seagulls 5 year plan and still be a definite possibility. But if even that's not enough for you to concede that your argument is leagues away from being perfect and sound, CCP Seagull still takes orders from people higher up than she is. If CCP has proven anything, it's that things change, sometimes without warning. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1122
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 01:25:00 -
[4048] - Quote
The whole Art & Graphics Panel from FanFest is great. For the bit relevant to this thread, skip to 19:30 in the video. That's the more interesting of two reveals about avatar customization.
What I've gleaned from FanFest so far regarding avatars generally:
1) Thanks to the Guristas, pods will no longer be necessary. Valkyrie clones don't need them. Furthermore, because CCP wants the same character to be able to switch between games, it will soon be possible for your character to jump across clone types, not just clones. Dersen could suit up and go on a Legion battlefield, then suit up again and hop in a fighter, then land back in his Ishtar.
We'll presumably still jack right into the ship's computers to keep our edge as commanders, and we'll likely get escape pods, but the rest will no longer be necessary. The pilot in the Odyssey trailer is the capsuleer of the future.
2) the character customization screen is going touch-friendly.
3) as shown above, the art department is going back to some of the old pre-Incarna costumes and "modernizing" them for release. Shout out any favorites!
4) The trailers continue to press the "Future Vision" of EVE gameplay pretty damn hard.
When? Who knows? CCP probably doesn't want to show anything until it's ready to ship, for obvious reasons. The new deployment schedule makes it easier to work on projects that ship when they ship. We might not see anything before 2015, but maybe we will. In the mean time, Legion and Valkyrie will be getting EVE's character creator, and we may have at least one form of avatar gameplay on these characters on the way. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3204
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 03:05:00 -
[4049] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:1) Thanks to the Guristas, pods will no longer be necessary. Valkyrie clones don't need them... We'll presumably still jack right into the ship's computers to keep our edge as commanders, and we'll likely get escape pods, but the rest will no longer be necessary. The pilot in the Odyssey trailer is the capsuleer of the future. the consciousness transfer technology was originally separate from the jovian capsule, it was the combination of the two that led to the capsuleer. the valk guys won't need the pod 'cos from what i seen they'll use sticks |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1124
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 03:10:00 -
[4050] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:1) Thanks to the Guristas, pods will no longer be necessary. Valkyrie clones don't need them... We'll presumably still jack right into the ship's computers to keep our edge as commanders, and we'll likely get escape pods, but the rest will no longer be necessary. The pilot in the Odyssey trailer is the capsuleer of the future. the consciousness transfer technology was originally separate from the jovian capsule, it was the combination of the two that led to the capsuleer. the valk guys won't need the pod 'cos from what i seen they'll use sticks
The pod technology was necessary because the clones were unstable. The DUST mercs were better, but still with a finite life span of 5-7 years. The Valkyrie clones seem to be more advanced still.
We don't need the goop, just a seat, a HUD and the jacks. (The fact that the goop is breathable food is nice, though.) Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
|
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
3747
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 03:34:00 -
[4051] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:
1) Thanks to the Guristas, pods will no longer be necessary. Valkyrie clones don't need them. Furthermore, because CCP wants the same character to be able to switch between games, it will soon be possible for your character to jump across clone types, not just clones. Dersen could suit up and go on a Legion battlefield, then suit up again and hop in a fighter, then land back in his Ishtar.
We'll presumably still jack right into the ship's computers to keep our edge as commanders, and we'll likely get escape pods, but the rest will no longer be necessary. The pilot in the Odyssey trailer is the capsuleer of the future.
Well technically we already do that, it's not new to games. When you go from WiS to FiS, your WiS character is transformed into a space ship. This is often representative of an 'actor' entry and the info stored on a database.
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
816
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 05:21:00 -
[4052] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:1) Thanks to the Guristas, pods will no longer be necessary. Valkyrie clones don't need them. Furthermore, because CCP wants the same character to be able to switch between games, it will soon be possible for your character to jump across clone types, not just clones. Dersen could suit up and go on a Legion battlefield, then suit up again and hop in a fighter, then land back in his Ishtar. Though I understand what you're saying from a lore point of view, the ship destroyed -> pod gameplay mechanic is a pretty important one in EVE. The death of the ship isn't the final kill, and a final kill comes with consequences for both killer (in some circumstances) and killed. Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1396
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 08:43:00 -
[4053] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Solecist Project's Alt wrote:Argueing with weak minded people only drags you down to their level. It's too bad you people can't discuss this without resorting to personal insults which just causes ISD to butcher the threads.
Too bad you can't discuss this without deliberately trying to provoke personal insults which just causes ISD to butcher the threads. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1197
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 08:47:00 -
[4054] - Quote
Anyone know if the factional stations remakes will include the quarters too?
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1397
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 08:54:00 -
[4055] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:The whole Art & Graphics Panel from FanFest is great. For the bit relevant to this thread, skip to 19:30 in the video. That's the more interesting of two reveals about avatar customization. What I've gleaned from FanFest so far regarding avatars generally: 1) Thanks to the Guristas, pods will no longer be necessary. Valkyrie clones don't need them. Furthermore, because CCP wants the same character to be able to switch between games, it will soon be possible for your character to jump across clone types, not just clones. Dersen could suit up and go on a Legion battlefield, then suit up again and hop in a fighter, then land back in his Ishtar. We'll presumably still jack right into the ship's computers to keep our edge as commanders, and we'll likely get escape pods, but the rest will no longer be necessary. The pilot in the Odyssey trailer is the capsuleer of the future.
According to CCP falcon there are two fundamentally different technologies at work here, the pod/capsule interface is superior at transferring consciousness than the templar/Valkyrie interface, he compares it to the difference between ethernet and wi fi. The range is effectively unlimited for the capsule but limited to the battlefield for the others. To two implant/interface types are not cross compatible hence the need for different types of clones for different circumstances, soft clones for station life, hardened clones for irradiated areas, battlefield clones for combat ops.
I look forward to giving them all a try.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Erica Dusette
Rolled Out
7082
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 08:56:00 -
[4056] - Quote
Rhes wrote:The fact that you can't let it go, while amusing, is a little sad to witness.
Sad like how you can't stop posting against a feature you consistently claim is "dead"?
I find it really amusing how the mere thought of WiS/Spacebarbies/avatars in your spaceship-sim terrifies you so much that you'll go to this effort.
Major (Ret.) Caldari Militia | Part-time wormhole pirate | Full-time super model Gÿá Wormhole Diary | GÖí #420roloswag
|
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven
59
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 08:59:00 -
[4057] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:1) Thanks to the Guristas, pods will no longer be necessary. Valkyrie clones don't need them... We'll presumably still jack right into the ship's computers to keep our edge as commanders, and we'll likely get escape pods, but the rest will no longer be necessary. The pilot in the Odyssey trailer is the capsuleer of the future. the consciousness transfer technology was originally separate from the jovian capsule, it was the combination of the two that led to the capsuleer. the valk guys won't need the pod 'cos from what i seen they'll use sticks The pod technology was necessary because the clones were unstable. The DUST mercs were better, but still with a finite life span of 5-7 years. The Valkyrie clones seem to be more advanced still. We don't need the goop, just a seat, a HUD and the jacks. (The fact that the goop is breathable food is nice, though.)
Escape pods are still nice tho, capsule now not practical very much, being closed in it 90% of the time, and now being able to freely disconnect and walk around the ship is good :D, but still capsule real advantage is the survival, so escape pods are essential. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3205
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 13:09:00 -
[4058] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:1) Thanks to the Guristas, pods will no longer be necessary. Valkyrie clones don't need them... We'll presumably still jack right into the ship's computers to keep our edge as commanders, and we'll likely get escape pods, but the rest will no longer be necessary. The pilot in the Odyssey trailer is the capsuleer of the future. the consciousness transfer technology was originally separate from the jovian capsule, it was the combination of the two that led to the capsuleer. the valk guys won't need the pod 'cos from what i seen they'll use sticks The pod technology was necessary because the clones were unstable. The DUST mercs were better, but still with a finite life span of 5-7 years. The Valkyrie clones seem to be more advanced still. We don't need the goop, just a seat, a HUD and the jacks. (The fact that the goop is breathable food is nice, though.) i don't remember this, i remember stories mentioning capsuleers up and walking about |
Meiyang Lee
Game Instrument Applications
39
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 13:22:00 -
[4059] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote: i don't remember this, i remember stories mentioning capsuleers up and walking about
You can easily de-pod, even on board a ship, you just need a crew to take over the functions your brain normally regulates automatically. Capsuleer ships do tend to have far smaller crews because we control so many of the ship systems by ourselves.
de-podding will limit the functionality of your ship dramatically, as a capsuleer can respond to threats and actions far quicker than a full human crew could.
The pod is also partially for your own protection, the neural feedback from the ship causes you to thrash about a little and being submerged in a liquid medium prevents injury.
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1125
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 01:14:00 -
[4060] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:1) Thanks to the Guristas, pods will no longer be necessary. Valkyrie clones don't need them. Furthermore, because CCP wants the same character to be able to switch between games, it will soon be possible for your character to jump across clone types, not just clones. Dersen could suit up and go on a Legion battlefield, then suit up again and hop in a fighter, then land back in his Ishtar. Though I understand what you're saying from a lore point of view, the ship destroyed -> pod gameplay mechanic is a pretty important one in EVE. The death of the ship isn't the final kill, and a final kill comes with consequences for both killer (in some circumstances) and killed.
I think ejecting an escape pod is a perfectly reasonable way around that. They're already in the lore, as your hapless crew tries to escape your burning ship. The capsuleer's would come with a warp drive because hey, we're demigods. We don't need to slowboat to the nearest planet.
In the very original lore, clones were wildly unstable and unable to survive outside the carefully controlled environment of a pod. It make sense that the technology would improve steadily, especially once it escaped the grasp of the empires. Which is all just a roundabout way of saying that if CCP wants us in dry cockpits, with a specialized interface plugged into the jacks in our spines, that can happen.
Pods make more sense for long-term deployments, though, so it wouldn't shock me if they stuck around. That's not mutually exclusive with the clone being able get out and walk around. In fact, that's already lore. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
|
Beofryn Sedorak
65
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 01:21:00 -
[4061] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:1) Thanks to the Guristas, pods will no longer be necessary. Valkyrie clones don't need them. Furthermore, because CCP wants the same character to be able to switch between games, it will soon be possible for your character to jump across clone types, not just clones. Dersen could suit up and go on a Legion battlefield, then suit up again and hop in a fighter, then land back in his Ishtar. Though I understand what you're saying from a lore point of view, the ship destroyed -> pod gameplay mechanic is a pretty important one in EVE. The death of the ship isn't the final kill, and a final kill comes with consequences for both killer (in some circumstances) and killed. I think ejecting an escape pod is a perfectly reasonable way around that. They're already in the lore, as your hapless crew tries to escape your burning ship. The capsuleer's would come with a warp drive because hey, we're demigods. We don't need to slowboat to the nearest planet. In the very original lore, clones were wildly unstable and unable to survive outside the carefully controlled environment of a pod. It make sense that the technology would improve steadily, especially once it escaped the grasp of the empires. Which is all just a roundabout way of saying that if CCP wants us in dry cockpits, with a specialized interface plugged into the jacks in our spines, that can happen. Pods make more sense for long-term deployments, though, so it wouldn't shock me if they stuck around. That's not mutually exclusive with the clone being able get out and walk around. In fact, that's already lore.
The tears of genolution pod implant owners would extinguish the sun. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3205
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 02:33:00 -
[4062] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Which is all just a roundabout way of saying that if CCP wants us in dry cockpits, with a specialized interface plugged into the jacks in our spines, that can happen. yeh gameplay rightly always trumps lore |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1397
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 07:39:00 -
[4063] - Quote
The lore is a character in its own right, the game world has to absolutely support your actions otherwise the game won't make any sense.
Don't be so quick to trample on the lore, without it eve is just a space rts game, with it, it's a science fiction simulator. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
836
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 08:16:00 -
[4064] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:In the very original lore, clones were wildly unstable and unable to survive outside the carefully controlled environment of a pod. It make sense that the technology would improve steadily, especially once it escaped the grasp of the empires. Which is all just a roundabout way of saying that if CCP wants us in dry cockpits, with a specialized interface plugged into the jacks in our spines, that can happen.
Pods make more sense for long-term deployments, though, so it wouldn't shock me if they stuck around. That's not mutually exclusive with the clone being able get out and walk around. In fact, that's already lore. The moments close to your ship being destroyed are very intense and critical. I can't imagine the capsuleer managing this as well as being able to run into a pod and hit eject. The only physical way it's possible is for him to already be in the pod.
I actually like the idea of super advanced genetically engineered human beings are these grotesque, capsule-borne who project avatars that are fleshy, pink, and perfect looking. The capsuleer is always in a pod, in a prison of fluid and cables, and she is forever projecting a human-looking GAP clothes wrapped virtual self that is giving orders, pushing buttons on controls, and managing the vitals of the ship and her crew. There could be a floating projector in the ship presenting an interactable hologram of the capsuleer's avatar.
This could also be what CQ is.. a virtual room for an otherwise completely trapped capsuleer.
Don't you think this part of the lore should be preserved? Why make these guys look and act like everyone else? They are demigods and monsters.. Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1016
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 13:18:00 -
[4065] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:... fleshy, pale, and perfect looking. I fixed that typo for you, my dear. (:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860 Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears!
Red ... it's the color of life ......... |
Master Flakattack
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 14:17:00 -
[4066] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:You can make all the terrible jokes about "Wizrds in space" or "Emoting in stations", Fortunately for the rest of us, Your vocal minority doesn't by itself have any actual impact on the business decisions that CCP make. They make their decisions on things mature people evaluate, Product viability, Market reception, Demographic saturation (And a million other things). They have a TON of experience in making games, You can toss some of the mistakes they've made on a pole and parade them around, But you can't deny that CCP has succesfully made a game that makes you irrationally passionate about things to the point that you'll make a fool of yourself repeatedly with the same repetitious garbage over and over and over again all because someone else is interested in something that you're not. If you want to talk about what would be bad things for CCP to do, it would be to base their decisions on the opinions of vocal minority's and nay sayers instead of rational thought and evaluation of detailed market analysis that we as non CCP employees aren't privy to.
But in all honesty, If the idea of WiS annoys you so much, You probably shouldn't spend so much time engrossing yourself in it's community. Just sayin it's kind of like intentionally torturing yourself. Even if WiS was added as just the tack-on social content it was planned to be, do you really think it would have made a difference? And for a space ship game like EVE, do you really think the people holding out for WiS before playing the game were going to stick around once they found out it was just for show? The best part of your entire post is when you say CCP is crunching the numbers and it's "fortunate for the rest of us"... do you not think that maybe that is the reason they canned your /dance emotes in the first place? Your entire argument works against you the minute you ask one simple question: what does WiS actually add to the game? User retention and other business considerations don't tend to like the answer "nothing".
And then Legion comes out and it's not "walking" but fighting in stations. Having capsuleers in civvie clothes wandering around a warzone makes no sense. And just like that, Legion doesn't change a thing either.
Perhaps someday CCP will develop valid gameplay around WiS and then capsuleers will have a reason to leave their ships. Until that day, just remember CCP canned your bar simulator for a reason. |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
25711
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 14:26:00 -
[4067] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
(Zero Gravity)
:P Stick with your tattoos, mei mei.
Seriously though... if you can work on Legion, then you can work on EVA, no? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM) |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1127
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 16:51:00 -
[4068] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:The lore is a character in its own right, the game world has to absolutely support your actions otherwise the game won't make any sense.
Don't be so quick to trample on the lore, without it eve is just a space rts game, with it, it's a science fiction simulator.
I'm not saying "screw the lore," I'm saying that they're setting the lore up to explain a number of different options for clones that they're currently either working toward or looking at.
Who knows where they'll end up going? But the Valkyrie tech opens up some interesting options. And, of course, capsuleer tech can also be improved. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1397
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 20:07:00 -
[4069] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:The lore is a character in its own right, the game world has to absolutely support your actions otherwise the game won't make any sense.
Don't be so quick to trample on the lore, without it eve is just a space rts game, with it, it's a science fiction simulator. I'm not saying "screw the lore," I'm saying that they're setting the lore up to explain a number of different options for clones that they're currently either working toward or looking at. Who knows where they'll end up going? But the Valkyrie tech opens up some interesting options. And, of course, capsuleer tech can also be improved.
I agree, I never meant to imply that you were saying 'screw the lore', apologies if it's come across that way.
I do respect the law and as long as CCP respects the 'science' in the 'science fiction' and writes something that ties it all together then I am all for it. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Myxx
737
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 21:39:00 -
[4070] - Quote
The door needs to open, and hopefully this new method of having faster release times will let them get ambitious enough to get it done. |
|
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
250
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 21:49:00 -
[4071] - Quote
WiS is not something I'm interested in.
Would it be cool to be able to move around in your quarters, visit your clone room and swap fromEve to Valkarie to Legion? Sure. I dont see it working whatosever though, considering that Legion and Valkarie and Eve are all diferent engines (unless im wrong and legion and valk are both on UE4, but still). So I guess there is that idea out of the themepark.
Would it be cool if we had a room to upgrade our clones and see our next body waiting there? Sure. But then again, I can see a plethora of pervs stepping up and podgooing all over, so I guess that's a no as well.
And why bother when everything I need to do in a station can be done with keyboard shortcuts and/or a few clicks, and spit me back out to do whatever else I need to do that isn't chasing my solid kneecaps toon back and forth?
CQ need to leave. They are a nice gimick, but that's as far as I'm interested in it. I don't need it, and i gain nothing by having it. This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165 |
Doreen Kaundur
110
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 21:53:00 -
[4072] - Quote
The first post of this thread is dated 2012.10.09
So just where is this future prototype?
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1018
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:07:00 -
[4073] - Quote
Doreen Kaundur wrote:The first post of this thread is dated 2012.10.09
So just where is this future prototype?
Other posts have come along that announced the end of team avatar and death of their prototype. |
Doreen Kaundur
111
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:12:00 -
[4074] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Doreen Kaundur wrote:The first post of this thread is dated 2012.10.09
So just where is this future prototype? Other posts have come along that announced the end of team avatar and death of their prototype.
Then this thread should be closed.
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5689
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:15:00 -
[4075] - Quote
Doreen Kaundur wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Doreen Kaundur wrote:The first post of this thread is dated 2012.10.09
So just where is this future prototype? Other posts have come along that announced the end of team avatar and death of their prototype. Then this thread should be closed.
a LONG time ago.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Beofryn Sedorak
73
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:29:00 -
[4076] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Doreen Kaundur wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Doreen Kaundur wrote:The first post of this thread is dated 2012.10.09
So just where is this future prototype? Other posts have come along that announced the end of team avatar and death of their prototype. Then this thread should be closed. a LONG time ago.
Please cite the rule this thread is breaking. If you can't, then your argument is invalid. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5693
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:48:00 -
[4077] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote: Please cite the rule this thread is breaking. If you can't, then your argument is invalid.
Quote:26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
There is no Team Avatar, they were disbanded about 1/2 way into this thread when WiS was scrapped. This thread was created to solicit feedback specifically for that team and project. Anything not related to Team Avatar specifically is technically off-topic, and catch-22 is also in play.
A new thread with a relevant subject in F&I would be applicable at this point. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Flamespar
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
1198
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:57:00 -
[4078] - Quote
Nope. This thread continues to show the support for avatar gameplay. EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/ https://twitter.com/Flamespar |
Beofryn Sedorak
73
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:57:00 -
[4079] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote: Please cite the rule this thread is breaking. If you can't, then your argument is invalid.
Quote:26. Off-topic posting is prohibited. There is no Team Avatar, they were disbanded about 1/2 way into this thread when WiS was scrapped. Anything not related to Team Avatar specifically is technically off-topic, and catch-22 is also in play. A new thread with a relevant subject in F&I would be applicable at this point.
The topic of this thread is WiS, and more specifically a prototype for Wis. Moving up one level to WiS from A prototype regarding WiS is not off topic. Posting that a thread should be closed is however, Off-topic ;) |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5693
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 23:02:00 -
[4080] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Doc Fury wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote: Please cite the rule this thread is breaking. If you can't, then your argument is invalid.
Quote:26. Off-topic posting is prohibited. There is no Team Avatar, they were disbanded about 1/2 way into this thread when WiS was scrapped. Anything not related to Team Avatar specifically is technically off-topic, and catch-22 is also in play. A new thread with a relevant subject in F&I would be applicable at this point. The topic of this thread is WiS, and more specifically a prototype for Wis. Moving up one level to WiS from A prototype regarding WiS is not off topic. Posting that a thread should be closed is however, Off-topic ;)
Maybe you guys should start a kickstarter campaign to get the team back together.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
|
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 23:57:00 -
[4081] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Alice Saki wrote:Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
(Zero Gravity)
:P Stick with your tattoos, mei mei. Seriously though... if you can work on Legion, then you can work on EVA, no?
Errr...
Let me put it this way. The staff for Dust had more than twice the number of devs when it was in full development swing. It's down to less than half, and they are rebooting the game entirely as Legion in hopes it will somehow be better... and they are actually serious about it.
I am not currently of the belief that CCP actually has the manpower required to do anything respectable before the technology they are working with becomes obsolete. Were they to split resources further, I think we would see Legion being released in 2019 earliest and proper ambulation even later than that.
And of course, I feel very strongly about ambulation. I just don't see how CCP plans on getting anything done with the way they've been running things. |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
350
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 09:12:00 -
[4082] - Quote
I watche the trailers and i saw WiS
I read true stories and I saw WiS
I read the chronicles and i imagined WiS
So .... let me see it IG !!
I'm a pilot not a ship RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3217
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 10:23:00 -
[4083] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Nope. This thread continues to show the support for avatar gameplay. this thread only continues to exist due to an incredibly small number of posters bumping it about once or twice a week. they get trolled a few times then the thread dives back to page three. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
563
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 13:36:00 -
[4084] - Quote
I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of new players that would come when avatars are added. That added layer of customization, interaction and immersion could help a lot in bringing in new players and keeping them around.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
253
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 14:22:00 -
[4085] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of new players that would come when avatars are added. That added layer of customization, interaction and immersion could help a lot in bringing in new players and keeping them around. As long as they don't leave the station in a Hulk or a pimped CNR/Golem and meet the real EVE My signature got stolen (o.0) |
Noel Wolfisheim
Project Blackwolf
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 14:45:00 -
[4086] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of new players that would come when avatars are added. That added layer of customization, interaction and immersion could help a lot in bringing in new players and keeping them around. Where do you get this, please explain how adding fully functional avatars and customization would mean the player base increases drastically? |
Beofryn Sedorak
73
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 15:16:00 -
[4087] - Quote
Noel Wolfisheim wrote:Where do you get this, please explain how adding fully functional avatars and customization would mean the player base increases drastically?
Do you really need someone to explain to you that appealing to a broader and/or different demographic will appeal to a broader and/or different demographic? Really? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3217
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 15:22:00 -
[4088] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Noel Wolfisheim wrote:Where do you get this, please explain how adding fully functional avatars and customization would mean the player base increases drastically? Do you really need someone to explain to you that appealing to a broader and/or different demographic will appeal to a broader and/or different demographic? Really? may appeal. may be lost in the huge number of conventional mmos that already offer this. and certainly alienate the niche crowd that eve online has made its base. which is why walking in stations is dead and buried.
let me repeat that, although i know the more deluded posters in this thread will never be willing to accept it: walking in stations is dead and buried |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5733
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 15:28:00 -
[4089] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Noel Wolfisheim wrote:Where do you get this, please explain how adding fully functional avatars and customization would mean the player base increases drastically? Do you really need someone to explain to you that appealing to a broader and/or different demographic will appeal to a broader and/or different demographic? Really?
The problem is no one has yet been able to flesh-out anything these mythical new players will actually *do* in EVE (as Avatars) that would attract them to the game, that would also have a impact on the game overall. Playing dress-up, gambling or playing mini-games as an avatar does not have any effect or consequences on the rest of the game or players.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Job Valador
Sovereign Colonies Armed Forces
560
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 15:50:00 -
[4090] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement." |
|
Noel Wolfisheim
Project Blackwolf
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 16:24:00 -
[4091] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote: The problem is no one has yet been able to flesh-out anything these mythical new players will actually *do* in EVE (as Avatars) that would attract them to the game, that would also have a impact on the game overall. Playing dress-up, gambling or playing mini-games as an avatar does not have any effect or consequences on the rest of the game or players.
Walk in Station is a decent idea I enjoy thinking about too, but I don't think in reality it is in any way applicable. There's the possibility that integrating avatar-centric gameplay changes into EVE Online would segregate the players between smaller communities within the broader community, the content for the Walk in Station would mostly be filler with little prospect of integration with EVE Online as a whole and it could also in the word case lead the players all the avatar features brought away after they do not find the rest of the game enjoyable.
The content that Walk in Station promised was mostly mini-games and content that in general would not affect the whole mission, mining and combat that happens in EVE Online. What that means is that we would have this chunk of gameplay changes for our avatars that do not serve a realistic purpose into the gameplay. Meanwhile this content could help with breaking the loop from doing missions, mining, industry and combat that someone may be doing in the game on a regular basis it doesn't automatically mean that the work needed to achieve this is going to actually benefit the game or the players because the purpose of EVE Online is beyond what Walk in Station could bring into the gameplay. Hence the content that Walk in Station may bring is something that could phase itself out due to its very nature; as something essentially different from the game's nature.
Now, this new set of avatar features could bring a new number of players, or returning players, but now imagine that you come back to the game, and you try all the features that we know Walk in Stations could have offered; the content itself is not essential to the game, nor it would bring as much reward or entertainment compared to the traditional content offered by the game as its nature would be to support the existing content. Players who come or return into EVE Online to try these new features out would most likely, in the worst-case scenario get bored and leave the game.
Players would also become more segregated because of the features brought from Walk in Station; those that want to play just for the features recently added by CCP using the features amply, those that accept those features and use them on a low or regular basis and a number of people who refute the features and do not use them at all. Seeing how the community is already segregated depending on the player's interests, such as being in High Sec, Low Sec, Null Sec or Wormhole space further separation of the community might harm it on the long term as the arguments about what affects what and how with each and every patch would get even more chaotic in the case that Walk in Stations integrated meaningful gameplay that is relevant with the rest of EVE Online.
The ideas, and the possibilities for Walk in Station are many, but in all honesty we can see how as a concept it's not what could fit well with EVE Online, and even in the case the means were found to integrate Walk in Station there's doubt on whether it would truly engage with players or not. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
439
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 16:58:00 -
[4092] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Noel Wolfisheim wrote:Where do you get this, please explain how adding fully functional avatars and customization would mean the player base increases drastically? Do you really need someone to explain to you that appealing to a broader and/or different demographic will appeal to a broader and/or different demographic? Really? may appeal. may be lost in the huge number of conventional mmos that already offer this. and certainly alienate the niche crowd that eve online has made its base. which is why walking in stations is dead and buried. let me repeat that, although i know the more deluded posters in this thread will never be willing to accept it: walking in stations is dead and buried
Not really on the "may" part.
Simply go to any website and look for advertising about this game. What does it show? Avatars to the foreground, spaceships to the backdrop.
You don't shift to that style of presentation unless that is the more appealing aspect to those you are trying to draw as new customers.
As for "barbies in space" - not my thing but it was promised long before I joined this game.
Whether you like it or not, CCP did promise to deliver it. If they don't - it's no big to me. If they do - I won't gripe, they promised it. I'd advise if they do that you get over whining about it.
That is what a lot of such posts read like - whines about the idea that someone gets what was promised that you don't find of interest - like "screw nullsec - the blue doughnut doesn't need anything else." and the like. If fixes or adjustments come up to a part of the game that doesn't interest me, it happens.
IMO they should flesh it out more for those who like it and have been waiting more years than I've been playing (going on 5 years now). Especially with all the other stuff that's been done that wasn't promised like this part was. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3217
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 18:43:00 -
[4093] - Quote
Mocam wrote:You don't shift to that style of presentation unless that is the more appealing aspect to those you are trying to draw as new customers. advertisments that feature eyes or faces are more effective. at getting looked at.
Quote: If fixes or adjustments come up to a part of the game that doesn't interest me, it happens. but if a new feature comes up that's entirely undercooked, unusable by a good proportion of players, unlikely to deliver any meaningful content in years if ever and at the expense of development/iteration of the content the vast majority of the niche userbase enjoys, a whole lot of people unsub and shoot a statue. then development gets delayed indefinitely
~i advise you get over whining about it~ |
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
275
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 19:27:00 -
[4094] - Quote
This thread has too much trolling and not enough profit.
Hey Benny Ohu, I'll make a 1 billion isk wager to you if you're willing to accept it that within the next three years there is a WiS game announced by CCP that serves as a central nexus between EVE/Valkyrie/Legion (or dust, if Legion somehow doesn't happen).
And because I said this on the forums, you know its not a scam. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
565
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 08:22:00 -
[4095] - Quote
Noel Wolfisheim wrote:Doc Fury wrote: The problem is no one has yet been able to flesh-out anything these mythical new players will actually *do* in EVE (as Avatars) that would attract them to the game, that would also have a impact on the game overall. Playing dress-up, gambling or playing mini-games as an avatar does not have any effect or consequences on the rest of the game or players.
Walk in Station is a decent idea I enjoy thinking about too, but I don't think in reality it is in any way applicable. There's the possibility that integrating avatar-centric gameplay changes into EVE Online would segregate the players between smaller communities within the broader community, the content for the Walk in Station would mostly be filler with little prospect of integration with EVE Online as a whole and it could also in the worst case lead the players all the avatar features brought away after they do not find the rest of the game enjoyable. The content that Walk in Station promised was mostly mini-games and content that in general would not affect the whole mission, mining and combat that happens in EVE Online. What that means is that we would have this chunk of gameplay changes for our avatars that do not serve a realistic purpose into the gameplay. Meanwhile this content could help with breaking the loop from doing missions, mining, industry and combat that someone may be doing in the game on a regular basis it doesn't automatically mean that the work needed to achieve this is going to actually benefit the game or the players because the purpose of EVE Online is beyond what Walk in Station could bring into the gameplay. Hence the content that Walk in Station may bring is something that could phase itself out due to its very nature; as something essentially different from the game's nature. Now, this new set of avatar features could bring a new number of players, or returning players, but now imagine that you come back to the game, and you try all the features that we know Walk in Stations could have offered; the content itself is not essential to the game, nor it would bring as much reward or entertainment compared to the traditional content offered by the game as its nature would be to support the existing content. Players who come or return into EVE Online to try these new features out would most likely, in the worst-case scenario get bored and leave the game. Players would also become more segregated because of the features brought from Walk in Station; those that want to play just for the features recently added by CCP using the features amply, those that accept those features and use them on a low or regular basis and a number of people who refute the features and do not use them at all. Seeing how the community is already segregated depending on the player's interests, such as being in High Sec, Low Sec, Null Sec or Wormhole space further separation of the community might harm it on the long term as the arguments about what affects what and how with each and every patch would get even more chaotic in the case that Walk in Stations integrated meaningful gameplay that is relevant with the rest of EVE Online. The ideas, and the possibilities for Walk in Station are many, but in all honesty we can see how as a concept it's not what could fit well with EVE Online, and even in the case the means were found to integrate Walk in Station there's doubt on whether it would truly engage with players or not.
The value of having a relatable human(oid) character you can actually see and walk around with in a game that's otherwise incredibly impersonal and removed from the player is immense. WiS would work with only having a social component to avatar play in the beginning, additional gameplay is not necessary - Having a way to leave the ship and interact with other players adds a certain level of immersion and the ability to connect to your avatar in a way that's currently not possible.
This might seem like an incredibly minute and trivial issue, but i wouldn't underestimate the advantages a feature like this will bring.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Inari Visas
X-Prot
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 08:38:00 -
[4096] - Quote
Just making ship spinning obsolete is a positive I think every player will love. Having us interact with each other, like sitting in a bar talking. I think this will make for a unique experience that is currently not available anywhere (I think). |
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
158
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 08:51:00 -
[4097] - Quote
Reiisha wrote: This might seem like an incredibly minute and trivial issue, but i wouldn't underestimate the advantages a feature like this will bring.
I'll step in and reinforce the above, as well as add my .02:
Star Trek Online -- ship/station interiors shortly after launch.
Star Citizen -- promises accessible station interiors.
Stellarbrink -- Kickstarter project, already has support for interiors (and easily-customizable ones, at that).
All of those are less than six years old.
EVE is eleven years old, and hasn't yet done what at least three other younger spaceship games have done, or are promising to do.
The unfortunate truth for all you WiS-haters is that no matter how loudly you whine about 'spaceship barbie', ten more years of the 'same thing EVE's always been' will not sustain a playing population. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
567
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 08:56:00 -
[4098] - Quote
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:Reiisha wrote: This might seem like an incredibly minute and trivial issue, but i wouldn't underestimate the advantages a feature like this will bring.
I'll step in and reinforce the above, as well as add my .02: Star Trek Online -- ship/station interiors shortly after launch. Star Citizen -- promises accessible station interiors. Stellarbrink -- Kickstarter project, already has support for interiors (and easily-customizable ones, at that). All of those are less than six years old. EVE is eleven years old, and hasn't yet done what at least three other younger spaceship games have done, or are promising to do. The unfortunate truth for all you WiS-haters is that no matter how loudly you whine about 'spaceship barbie', ten more years of the 'same thing EVE's always been' will not sustain a playing population.
The funny thing is, the people who complain about WiS usually think that putting in a new lightbulb goes 10 times faster if you do it with 10 people.
"Because WiS will take away from development of the space game!"
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |
Erica Dusette
Rolled Out
7171
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 08:58:00 -
[4099] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:WiS would work with only having a social component to avatar play in the beginning, additional gameplay is not necessary - Having a way to leave the ship and interact with other players adds a certain level of immersion and the ability to connect to your avatar in a way that's currently not possible. This, a thousand times.
I understand how promoting Avatar content via some "meaningful gameplay" is the smartest way to look at it's potential development if you want to win over the majority of the playerbase, but me personally I couldn't give 2 sh*ts about a gameplay aspect and would thoroughly enjoy the mere social aspect.
Major (Ret.) Caldari Militia | Part-time wormhole pirate | Full-time super model Gÿá Wormhole Diary | GÖí #420roloswag
|
chaos666wraith
Cyber Chaos Crew
48
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 09:23:00 -
[4100] - Quote
Well meatbags, I'd like to remind you what real EVE developers have to say about this matter and not what some pubbie bad's do.
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.
I now have also uploaded this video into my Solid State Drive for future visions and memories!
Be well. |
|
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
459
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 11:06:00 -
[4101] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:walking in stations is dead and buried
I was also dead once but Tribal Liberation Force brought me back. Now I'm smarter, faster and stronger. Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
molly666trillions
Cyber Chaos Crew
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 11:16:00 -
[4102] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:walking in stations is dead and buried My husky and german shepperd mixed race companion has this instinct to go hunting chickens on other people's farms, even after I fed her. But she doesn't eat them right away. She guts them with the teeth and lets their entrails hanging out, then digs a hole and burries them with their yellow feet sticking out the ground. Only after a couple of days when they are a bit cooked does she go dig em up and eat them. See? Dead and buried things aren't always bad for everyone
Offering a (small) ISK bonus for doing community work in a provable way is from my personal perspective fine.
|
Tomiko Kawase
Kite Co. Space Trucking
151
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 14:06:00 -
[4103] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of new players that would come when avatars are added. That added layer of customization, interaction and immersion could help a lot in bringing in new players and keeping them around.
I'm here because of Incarna and I don't plan on leaving anytime soon. I don't like where they were taking WiS and I'm glad that got scrapped. I would like it revisited with actual (read: fun) gameplay, though. Bombastic vintage soul with a driving groove, brass & male vocal |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3219
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 15:32:00 -
[4104] - Quote
chaos666wraith wrote:I'd like to remind you what real EVE developers have to say about this matter the ones that shelved the project and disbanded team avatar?
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:ten more years of the 'same thing EVE's always been' will not sustain a playing population. 'listing three irrelevant games' doesn't support this statement
where's the hate for wis? avatar gameplay's fine. it's the detachment from reality this thread represents that i dislike. a small number of posters desperately propping up an ancient thread (with their alts as backup sockpuppets, gods) created to describe a team long since disbanded in the lost hope that wis will be coming soon. it's a pathetic corpse of what was a hopeful and exciting announcement.
just let this sorry thread die and start a new one. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1104
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 15:42:00 -
[4105] - Quote
/me twirls her hair....... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860 Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears!
Red blood, boiling hot! |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5772
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 15:46:00 -
[4106] - Quote
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
4297
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 16:07:00 -
[4107] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:chaos666wraith wrote:I'd like to remind you what real EVE developers have to say about this matter the ones that shelved the project and disbanded team avatar? Long ago. Currently t0rfifrans looks to be working on ship display models and books (merchandising).
So who are these mysterious devs working hard on WiS currently? Or we just keep regurgitating things from years ago and hope people believe it enough by lack of facts so to keep asking 'when'? Seems a disservice to the community to discuss such things outside of the ideas forum. This isn't something in development, not even an idea discussion, it's simply activism. There are no WiS-haters nor WiS-supporters, from no WiS development, only WiS activists. The topic itself in that sense derives from conflict towards a cause, a potential for trolling by it's very nature. This thread and other WiS threads in GD should really be locked and/or redirected to the ideas forum. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1529
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 17:34:00 -
[4108] - Quote
This thread was made by CCP and they did not want to move it there, because it is GD thread. Ideas were shared earlier in Ideas part of forum, you could make 2 SC games out of those. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif EVE Online = Ministry of Silly Tooltips. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
459
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 17:50:00 -
[4109] - Quote
If this thread gets locked I'll unsub my account. Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
4300
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 17:52:00 -
[4110] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:This thread was made by CCP and they did not want to move it there, because it is GD thread. Ideas were shared earlier in Ideas part of forum, you could make 2 SC games out of those. Years ago! People act like Devs are still in this conversation. It's only an annoying activist thread now. The dead horse was beat long ago, it decayed and now a tree has grown where it once lay. People are carving little hearts in the tree with 'WiS' inside it, while little kids climb up it's branches. That horse is long since clue!
|
|
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
4300
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 17:58:00 -
[4111] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:If this thread gets locked I'll unsub my account. Because you want to keep up the activism, misleading people to think WiS is being worked on, then get them upset when they realize the truth. Dude, Hello Kitty Online -------->
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
5786
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 17:59:00 -
[4112] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:If this thread gets locked I'll unsub my account.
This folks, is what we call a "win-win" situation for everyone involved.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
459
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:03:00 -
[4113] - Quote
Ha ha gotcha! Nah I won't unsub it was just bluffing... Thought maybe if I used my sub I could tell CCP what to do like the goons Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
406
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:10:00 -
[4114] - Quote
Posting in thread where some manly men are hysterically trying to convince anyone who'll listen that it's more manly to pretend you're an internet spaceship than to pretend you're a hot chick flying an internet spaceship. |
molly666trillions
Cyber Chaos Crew
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:36:00 -
[4115] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Dude, Hello Kitty Online --------> This kitty here will come say hello to you once WiS comes out. I promise it'll be the last word your clone will hear. Offering a (small) ISK bonus for doing community work in a provable way is from my personal perspective fine.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1530
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:41:00 -
[4116] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:This thread was made by CCP and they did not want to move it there, because it is GD thread. Ideas were shared earlier in Ideas part of forum, you could make 2 SC games out of those. Years ago! People act like Devs are still in this conversation. It's only an annoying activist thread now. The dead horse was beat senseless long ago, it decayed and now a tree has grown where it once lay. People are carving little hearts in the tree with 'WiS' inside it, while little kids climb up it's branches. That horse is long since glue!
As you see it will perservere as a GD thread. People just post here. You too. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif EVE Online = Ministry of Silly Tooltips. |
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
257
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:42:00 -
[4117] - Quote
I wonder why the ISD wont lock this thread, as it has evidently served its purpose. This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165 |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
4303
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:47:00 -
[4118] - Quote
molly666trillions wrote:Webvan wrote:Dude, Hello Kitty Online --------> This kitty here will come say hello to you once WiS comes out. I promise it'll be the last word your clone will hear. Oh! You couldn't be somebodies forum alt Way to stick up for yourself for posting horribly outdated quotes to make some pointless point. heh
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1530
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 18:54:00 -
[4119] - Quote
Erufen Rito wrote:I wonder why the ISD wont lock this thread, as it has evidently served its purpose. Subjective oppinion. and as you see its not ISD opinion at all. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif EVE Online = Ministry of Silly Tooltips. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
4304
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 19:04:00 -
[4120] - Quote
Erufen Rito wrote:I wonder why the ISD wont lock this thread, as it has evidently served its purpose. At bare minimum they should at least remove Dev posts on this thread so they aren't dug up for quoting as if this is all still happening. They remove Dev blog announcements when they become contradictory after a change, so too threads like this should be cleaned up if not locked out. |
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1530
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 19:13:00 -
[4121] - Quote
And now I see why you are not a member of ISD. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif EVE Online = Ministry of Silly Tooltips. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
4304
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 19:19:00 -
[4122] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:And now I see why you are not a member of ISD. Because they don't do what the Devs do? (clean up dead horse messes) I'm not saying that is true or not, but that's what you imply. Tell us more about ISD...
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1530
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 19:25:00 -
[4123] - Quote
Discussion is still open, and your posts are off-topic and you are questioning ISD competences here. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif EVE Online = Ministry of Silly Tooltips. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
4304
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 19:38:00 -
[4124] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Discussion is still open, and your posts are off-topic and you are questioning ISD competences here. See, a lot you know (and you aught to know better), the topic is moot, it turned to glue long ago as the beaten dead horse it is. Team avatar disbanded, the guy Mr. 666 is quoting is working on merchandising, and there is no prototype for WiS any longer. This thread only serves to confuse people, which in turn gives CCP a bad name, as well as it's majority player-base who put this subject to closure long ago. The thread wasn't created for the purposes of activism, and your constant denial regarding the true status of the subject is but self-serving.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1530
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:01:00 -
[4125] - Quote
ISD can lock this thread any minute. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif EVE Online = Ministry of Silly Tooltips. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
4308
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:08:00 -
[4126] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:ISD can lock this thread any minute. And they don't becauuuuse... WiS is real! right? ... Or they like to laugh at the absurdity of these activist posts...
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Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
258
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:09:00 -
[4127] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Erufen Rito wrote:I wonder why the ISD wont lock this thread, as it has evidently served its purpose. Subjective opinion and as you can see it's not ISD opinion at all. Can't make an unwilling blind see.
You get WiS soon. Hold your breath until it happens. This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165 |
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
159
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:11:00 -
[4128] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:ISD can lock this thread any minute. And they don't becauuuuse... WiS is real! right? ... Or they like to laugh at the absurdity of these activist posts...
What I don't understand is...
if you want this thread to go away, why do you keep posting in it?
And why are you so opposed to people engaging in conversation? |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1531
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:20:00 -
[4129] - Quote
Hah, obviously Webvan and Erufen Rito know something about confusing and giving CCP bad name. And all of this after they post about locking these thread, ISD would self-serv them well I suppose. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif EVE Online = Ministry of Silly Tooltips. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
4311
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:23:00 -
[4130] - Quote
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:Webvan wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:ISD can lock this thread any minute. And they don't becauuuuse... WiS is real! right? ... Or they like to laugh at the absurdity of these activist posts... What I don't understand is... if you want this thread to go away, why do you keep posting in it? And why are you so opposed to people engaging in conversation? Interesting spin, but whether or not I post does not impact the staying power of this thread. We are talking activism here, the activists won't stop posting until they get what they want, no matter how low they need to sink to get it.
Yes, I'm opposed to a conversation that is misdirected through old Dev quotes that are no longer relevant to the topic and presented as if WiS is all fine and still being worked on (read the previous page). It's misleading, and only used to get the unwary player upset after having their hopes raised and then dashed after learning what the rest of us have known for a very long time. All you would have needed to do is read the previous posts to understand that. But then mega-dreadnaughts aren't for reading, eh? just for beating. |
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1400
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:28:00 -
[4131] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Erufen Rito wrote:I wonder why the ISD wont lock this thread, as it has evidently served its purpose. At bare minimum they should at least remove Dev posts on this thread so they aren't dug up for quoting as if this is all still happening. They remove Dev blog announcements when they become contradictory after a change, so too threads like this should be cleaned up if not locked out.
Removing Dev posts won't necessarily stop people quoting them, also why do you feel it necessary to try and deprive your opposition of useful materials if the opposition's case is as baseless as you claim? Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
chaos666wraith
Cyber Chaos Crew
55
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 20:44:00 -
[4132] - Quote
One of my missions as an artificial person is to gather as much information as I can about human emotions, so I can understand and replicate them better.
I've often asked myself "Why do humans cry?" Now I can understand why, but it is something I will never be able to do.
I hope that once WiS is launched I can meet more fellow humans in station to watch them shed tears more often. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize. - CCP t0rfifrans |
molly666trillions
Cyber Chaos Crew
43
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 21:13:00 -
[4133] - Quote
I can't cry myself. When I had my lenses implanted the tear ducts were re-routed to my mouth due to fitting issues.
Now whenever I would cry, I just spit. It's kind of unpleasant, you wouldn't wanna meet me in WiS. Offering a (small) ISK bonus for doing community work in a provable way is from my personal perspective fine.
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Shelby Dusette
Nighthawk Exploration Anoikis Ronin
819
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 21:19:00 -
[4134] - Quote
Poast with your main.
Wormhole Intern | Baby Dusette | Generally Clueless
CCP Eterne: "Naked avatars for PLEX." |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
440
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 22:48:00 -
[4135] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mocam wrote:You don't shift to that style of presentation unless that is the more appealing aspect to those you are trying to draw as new customers. advertisments that feature eyes or faces are more effective. at getting looked at. Quote: If fixes or adjustments come up to a part of the game that doesn't interest me, it happens. but if a new feature comes up that's entirely undercooked, unusable by a good proportion of players, unlikely to deliver any meaningful content in years if ever and at the expense of development/iteration of the content the vast majority of the niche userbase enjoys, a whole lot of people unsub and shoot a statue. then development gets delayed indefinitely ~i advise you get over whining about it~
You do have a rather limited point but a point none the less.
Yes, faces do sell more than the ships when the composite is available. Games that offer composite experiences or focus on a given area present that to the foreground or mixed as the foreground - race cars, tanks, planes, etc.
Remember when this stuff stopped and what else happened?
We'd been getting nothing but under cooked changes for a good year and a half due to stated changes in CCP's delivery method. It gave all of EVE a pretty "beta" feel for some time there. NOTHING came out complete - it was all "streamed" to us in bits and pieces to flesh things out.
We got a new avatar system "no tattoos for Minmatar?!?! no hoods for Amarr?" etc. The first pass on that tool (which was the first steps towards walking in stations) - we got what was it, 3 or 4 "free" reworkings of our characters? Also the changes in looks angered many people as they'd specifically picked their avatars in the earlier release but... they got over it.
With the first pass with the "ambulation" part, it wasn't walking around which angering so many as an option. What else happened?
We lost ship spinning with a fairly quick dock-up. There was nothing in that room but the NEX store - jammed in your face style in-game store sales? Then we had people overheating video cards due to the graphics load and of course the really angering points -- "golden ammo" internal news letter and the "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do" leaked memo from the CEO. The composite caused riots.
This was just 1 more "streamed" feature that we'd been getting from CCP for about a year and a half but this one had the "iteration" process to flesh it out interrupted but it wasn't the core of those riots.
Being promised and not even half finished - I will stick with let them finish it for those they promised it to since before I started this game. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
408
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:56:00 -
[4136] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Mocam wrote:You don't shift to that style of presentation unless that is the more appealing aspect to those you are trying to draw as new customers. advertisments that feature eyes or faces are more effective. at getting looked at. Quote: If fixes or adjustments come up to a part of the game that doesn't interest me, it happens. but if a new feature comes up that's entirely undercooked, unusable by a good proportion of players, unlikely to deliver any meaningful content in years if ever and at the expense of development/iteration of the content the vast majority of the niche userbase enjoys, a whole lot of people unsub and shoot a statue. then development gets delayed indefinitely ~i advise you get over whining about it~ You do have a rather limited point but a point none the less. Yes, faces do sell more than the ships when the composite is available. Games that offer composite experiences or focus on a given area present that to the foreground or mixed as the foreground - race cars, tanks, planes, etc. Remember when this stuff stopped and what else happened? We'd been getting nothing but under cooked changes for a good year and a half due to stated changes in CCP's delivery method. It gave all of EVE a pretty "beta" feel for some time there. NOTHING came out complete - it was all "streamed" to us in bits and pieces to flesh things out. We got a new avatar system "no tattoos for Minmatar?!?! no hoods for Amarr?" etc. The first pass on that tool (which was the first steps towards walking in stations) - we got what was it, 3 or 4 "free" reworkings of our characters? Also the changes in looks angered many people as they'd specifically picked their avatars in the earlier release but... they got over it. With the first pass with the "ambulation" part, it wasn't walking around which angering so many as an option. What else happened? We lost ship spinning with a fairly quick dock-up. There was nothing in that room but the NEX store - jammed in your face style in-game store sales? Then we had people overheating video cards due to the graphics load and of course the really angering points -- "golden ammo" internal news letter and the "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do" leaked memo from the CEO. The composite caused riots. This was just 1 more "streamed" feature that we'd been getting from CCP for about a year and a half but this one had the "iteration" process to flesh it out interrupted but it wasn't the core of those riots. Being promised and not even half finished - I will stick with let them finish it for those they promised it to since before I started this game.
Excellent post. Yes, the alarm bells started ringing for me when the avatar system was introduced - fantastic detail and execution (for the most part) and in that sense wonderful. But wait a minute - where had the character of EVE avatars gone? Where were the whacky visors and thingummibobs nobody knew what they did? Where was the gold lam+¬, the peculiar hairdos, etc., etc.? Suddenly we had - generic movie s-f space cowboys. Suddenly, CCP seemed to have lost their balls and gone for something very conventional and dull in terms of art design.
And then, it went as you say.
It's encouraging to see from the graphics panel some slight return of the style EVE used to have with the avatar clothing, some slight return of a sense of cultures that have drifted so far from the Earthly that they might as well be aliens.
It's just a shame nobody can see one's choices but oneself.
But it will come - despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth of some of the troglodytes here, CCP know what side their bread is buttered on, in the long run. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
1537
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 07:24:00 -
[4137] - Quote
I have seen old characters and some of them are too fantasy for me. Making something Sci-Fi and not overdoing it so it will become silly is a hard job. When weapons, technology, and economies mature faster than the leadership culture entrusted with them, disaster ensues. http://i.minus.com/ibeZ0sJewvDMBN.gif EVE Online = Ministry of Silly Tooltips. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
414
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 11:16:00 -
[4138] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:I have seen old characters and some of them are too fantasy for me. Making something Sci-Fi and not overdoing it so it will become silly is a hard job.
With the original CC, you had the option of making your character as weird or as straightforward as you wanted. Now you have only the option of straightforward.
If someone likes a generic movie s-f look, no problem; but the EVE CC had the possibility of creating a character with more of an "edge" originally, more of a unique flavour. Something was gained, sure (quality and detail obviously), but something was lost in terms of making EVE a unique "place", and its characters as batshit crazy-looking as the in-game events and lore.
But it was what that change portended that made me uncomfortable - I could have lived with a generic movie s-f base, and paid-for whacky addons. But the way CCP went was clearly some half-baked attempt to make the game more appealing to the mainstream. Alarm bells.
I didn't come to EVE to play a game like Star Citizen, where the lore extrapolation is "pretty much like us, only more technologically advanced", I initially loved EVE (in terms of feel and lore) because it seemed like a place so distant from us, so weird, so crazy, so alien, that it was actually really original in terms of an s-f concept.
Cultures that had been separated from us for thousands of years, gone through barbarism and rebuilding, with only distant memories of Earth That Was, would be unlikely to think of aviator glasses the height of fashion. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1107
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 11:26:00 -
[4139] - Quote
Barb! Hey! :D How're you doing, pretty? (:
I'm not sure the CC can be blamed too much here. It's the people who create them. There can be really nice and unique characters made, but many don't even try. :(
I'm doing my own efforts to improve the situation. Had so many talks about colors and clothes and expressions already... it's exhausting! xD https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860 Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears!
Red blood, boiling hot! |
Sibyyl
Brave Collective
921
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 11:29:00 -
[4140] - Quote
Are some of the old avatars archived somewhere? I'm curious as to what "weird" sci fi possibilities they had.. Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI |
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Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1108
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 11:38:00 -
[4141] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Are some of the old avatars archived somewhere? I'm curious as to what "weird" sci fi possibilities they had.. Try this one, special. :)
http://www.eve-avatars.com/
Here are the old images. All of them. In a zip file. http://community.eveonline.com/community/fansites/toolkit/ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860 Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears!
Red blood, boiling hot! |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
460
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 12:59:00 -
[4142] - Quote
I agree with Barbelo and I've written here before I only started playing EVE at Incarna, but from pictures and videos I've seen from the old avatar engine I think it suited much better the game than this new one. What EVE won in avatar graphic quality it lost in style to the old one.
The charachters in general are much less gritty, they look like they've just come out of a beauty treatment at a spa and not from messing around with spaceships in stations and in space. The clothes and accessories they wear now are more akin to 21st century trendy people than to 200th century immortal post-humans. The recently added cybernetic arms look more like prosthetics instead of actual augmentations. Bad taste in design all around.
I also think that had they kept the old engine and not invested in reinventing the wheel the WiS integration wouldn't have failed so bad and actual gameplay could have been carved on it, rather than having the current HD characters jerking around in solitary confinement. Banned from forums You have been banned from the EVE Gate forums, effective through 11/15/2013 12:33:03 PM. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
418
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 13:33:00 -
[4143] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:
I also think that had they kept the old engine and not invested in reinventing the wheel the WiS integration wouldn't have failed so bad and actual gameplay could have been carved on it, rather than having the current HD characters jerking around in solitary confinement.
I would have preferred the best of both worlds - the old sense of style with updated engine, quality and detail.
CCP does have to move on, the game has to progress and be updated, and after all that's a possibility with a game like this that's nothing but empty space, some space stations and spaceships, and a character creator. It's not like they have to design and render whole landscapes, towns, clutter, a zillion different interesting dungeons, and other stuff, like most other MMOs. Most MMOs couldn't update their visuals as regularly and as well as EVE has done, simply because there's too much stuff to update, in comparison.
The problem isn't that they tried to expand into WiS, the problem (I think) is just that they spread themselves too thin at a time when the world went into a bit of an economic downturn. It could easily have all worked out swimmingly, but it didn't.
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1323
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 13:52:00 -
[4144] - Quote
This thread gets a lock as it has run its course. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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