Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 98 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
|
CCP Falcon
6200
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 12:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit, piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Manager -á || -á EVE Illuminati
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
|
|
CCP Falcon
6200
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 12:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Please feel free to discuss this statement in this thread, however please also be aware of the forum rules, and our rules on discussion of warnings and bans.
Above all, lets keep it civil and constructive.
Thanks again.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Manager -á || -á EVE Illuminati
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
|
Giovanni erkelens2
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
bullshit |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3042
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
So has the EULA actually changed at all?
Oh god. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
93
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just so it's easily viewable:
SOHKAR TALKS WITH EROTICA 1: http://www.twitch.tv/kristallnachte/b/514883838
That MAY require some skipping forward.
Good job CCP! This is a solid nonstatement on the matter =P |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2724
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
As per the invitation in the previous thread to continue some lines of enquiry that are relevant to the above post, I would like to continue the discussion I was having with Salvos Rhoska
Ramona McCandless wrote: "But would you be ok if CCP made its decisions based on customer opinion if that opinion was not coming from the majority?"
Salvos Rhoska wrote: "Whether I would be ok with it or not, would depend entirely on whether I think the decision is good or not, from my personal perspective. Not on whether it is coming from a majority.
Wouldn't you? I mean lets not dance around the issue here."
Im not trying to avoid the issue, but yes I would have a major problem with any decision that was made (and lets be specific here) on an in-game issue (Gankery, Corp theft, AWOXing, taunting, RP of acts of depravity etc) because only 10 people say found it reprehensible.
Basically, this is not an issue of morals as a black and white compass, but how many people have to be offended before some one is removed from the game (which was your original point, as far as I could understand)? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
175
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with. |
Giovanni erkelens2
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:So has the EULA actually changed at all?
no. |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
70
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
As long as Erotica isn't getting away with this without consequences. I am a happy camper.
Even more happier that it is now very crystal clear to everyone that what occurred is not tolerated by CCP.
Thank you very much CCP, faith restored. |
Anomaly One
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
100
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
sooo.. nothing?
\o/ Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk |
|
embrel
BamBam Inc.
165
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'd have done it very similarly were I in CCP's shoes. So, no disagreement from here.
In my interpretation of that crystal-clear statement (...), bonus rooms are basically still allowed, however, they are a walk on the line, so that there's an incentive not to exaggerate. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3988
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:So has the EULA actually changed at all?
"In accordance with our existing Terms of Service". Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
663
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Shill blurt
Keep on shillin Imma link this thread when some poor critter temporarily off his meds gets taken to a TS channel and hazed to the point of homicide.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3132
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:As long as Erotica isn't getting away with this without consequences. I am a happy camper.
Even more happier that it is now very crystal clear to everyone that what occurred is not tolerated by CCP.
Thank you very much CCP, faith restored.
CCP Falcon wrote:
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3042
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with. Bye bye, don't forget to drop off your stuff in the bonus room on your way out. Oh god. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:As long as Erotica isn't getting away with this without consequences. I am a happy camper.
Even more happier that it is now very crystal clear to everyone that what occurred is not tolerated by CCP.
Thank you very much CCP, faith restored.
Read more closely.
Cases of real life harassment are not accepted and will be investigated.
This is something EVERYBODY is in favor of.
What was never stated is whether they think the Sohkar situation counts as harassment, and MANY people don't think it does. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
3990
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hey, didn't Infinity Ziona promise to unsub all his alts and biomass his main if there wasn't a policy change? Anyone else remember that? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1524
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hi Falcon!
I have a question for you. I brought this one up specifically in the megathread, so here we go:
Will CCP be applying it's EULA with regards to off-EVE systems. Example: Teamspeak, blogs, Skype, things of that nature.
I'm asking not so much due to the current case, but out of concern that nefarious people may decide to pretend to be someone they wish banned, off of CCP system.
Again, example. Person who hates LAF registers the blog "I_Am_LAF.com". Proceeds to write awful things, violate EULA, and other assorted bad things. Joins random voice comms under my name and spews RL harassment. Would I need to worry about that when it comes to my own account? Thanks in advance! The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Salvos Rhoska
842
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thank you CCP, as well as CSM who have been involved with representing the communities interests on this, for this clear and strong statement.
Lets all hope there are as few cases as possible of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world, so that all of us have more levity for content and enjoying the game, without everyone having to be suffer more restrictions necessary only due to the extraordinary detrimental actions of a few bad apples. -----For an elaboration on how Erotica1's conduct in his Bonus Room potentially constitutes torture----- https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4400219#post4400219 |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Kristalll wrote:Shill blurt Keep on shillin Imma link this thread when some poor critter temporarily off his meds gets taken to a TS channel and hazed to the point of homicide.
And it would be his fault for not taking his meds as he was ordered by his physician. CRAZY PEOPLE ARE CRAZY how do we have anything to do with that?
|
|
Tore Vest
362
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Thank you CCP No troll. |
Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
That means int he case of Erotica and co? |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5584
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with.
Holla at ya. Don't forget to tell us how many accounts so I know how many new accounts to sub to compensate. |
Siegfried Cohenberg
Schlomos Incorporated
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
you know im pretty sad that that threadnaught got closed before it reached 400 pages someone offered a 100m prize to the first post on that page D: |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
70
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:As long as Erotica isn't getting away with this without consequences. I am a happy camper.
Even more happier that it is now very crystal clear to everyone that what occurred is not tolerated by CCP.
Thank you very much CCP, faith restored. Read more closely. Cases of real life harassment are not accepted and will be investigated. This is something EVERYBODY is in favor of. What was never stated is whether they think the Sohkar situation counts as harassment, and MANY people don't think it does.
You talking about the "MANY" Erotica alts and fan boys?.... yeah of course. But whatever, no need to waste my time here any more. |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote: Bye bye, don't forget to drop off your stuff in the bonus room on your way out.
Please. You think i'm 10 or something lol?
Oh wait. Eve is your life so...
haha
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5584
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Hey, didn't Infinity Ziona promise to unsub all his alts and biomass his main if there wasn't a policy change? Anyone else remember that?
I do, but I suspect it'll just be 2009 all over again. |
Jagoff Haverford
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
79
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gotta be honest. I can't tell what the hell this "announcement" is saying. Sure, harassment in "real life" is a bad thing. But I can't even tell, after reading this masterpiece of double-speak, if the Erotica 1/Sokhar incident is or is not considered harassment in "real life".
I know that everyone who has anchored themselves to either side of the debate will probably spend the next 150 pages debating that the current incident does and does not qualify. But I don't really care what a bunch of internet lawyer space nerds have to say on the matter. I do care, however, what CCPs decision is.
And at the moment, I don't have the foggiest notion what that decision may be. I knew that I probably wouldn't agree with all of CCP's decisions on this matter, but I never imagined that I would be simply unable to determine what those decisions were. |
Regis Solo
The Scope Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:As long as Erotica isn't getting away with this without consequences. I am a happy camper.
Even more happier that it is now very crystal clear to everyone that what occurred is not tolerated by CCP.
Thank you very much CCP, faith restored. Read more closely. Cases of real life harassment are not accepted and will be investigated. This is something EVERYBODY is in favor of. What was never stated is whether they think the Sohkar situation counts as harassment, and MANY people don't think it does.
And it also means this gaming community has reached new levels of depravity. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3132
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
|
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
177
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with. Holla at ya. Don't forget to tell us how many accounts so I know how many new accounts to sub to compensate.
Go cry more noob lol. And **** yeah I'll give my stuff away :) To all the nice people I know of course |
Cedric deBouilard
PonyWaffe I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
62
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
so... did Erotica 1 got banned or not?
I couldn't get anything from out of CCP corporate-speech |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Riot Girl wrote: Bye bye, don't forget to drop off your stuff in the bonus room on your way out.
Please. You think i'm 10 or something lol? Oh wait. Eve is your life so... haha
Yup, we're all just pubbies that take internet spaceships seriously. |
SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
363
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Thanks CCP, of course we all disagree with actual real life harassment, however "harassment" on a virtual Teamspeak server... not so sure what to think of the people who let that happen to them. I disagree |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
330
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Hi Falcon!
I have a question for you. I brought this one up specifically in the megathread, so here we go:
Will CCP be applying it's EULA with regards to off-EVE systems. Example: Teamspeak, blogs, Skype, things of that nature.
I'm asking not so much due to the current case, but out of concern that nefarious people may decide to pretend to be someone they wish banned, off of CCP system.
Again, example. Person who hates LAF registers the blog "I_Am_LAF.com". Proceeds to write awful things, violate EULA, and other assorted bad things. Joins random voice comms under my name and spews RL harassment. Would I need to worry about that when it comes to my own account? Thanks in advance!
They cannot. Evidence like that can be easily doctored. |
Regis Solo
The Scope Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support.
Yes a CCP cave in to the power block |
Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cedric deBouilard wrote:so... did Erotica 1 got banned or not?
I couldn't get anything from out of CCP corporate-speech
that's the riddle in the dark. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
42
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
hmm ok , the response tells is that in extraordinary cases there can be consequences. But what do you define as extraordinary . And given that erotica1 put his actions in public domain much like mittens back in fanfest why no public response . |
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
11518
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Thanks for the update and keep up the good work.
/c
|
|
SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
363
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Go cry more noob lol.
I'm not so sure Jenn is the crying noob here.... sorry mate I disagree |
|
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cedric deBouilard wrote:so... did Erotica 1 got banned or not?
I couldn't get anything from out of CCP corporate-speech
No. The statement was made in a very smart way.
To the pirate types, who really read the words, it only talks about real life harassment.
To the carebear types who don't read the words, it clearly says "erotica 1 was harassing that man."
So it get's the people on the witchhunt to stop by, in their mind, making the case look closed, while the pirates and reality simply say this is the same statement the EULA makes. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
501
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
thanks falcon If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Salvos Rhoska
843
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Policy or EULA/TOS change was never necessary.
All the required elements already exist there.
What was required, was a delineation and statement which ones of those CCP is prepared to enact and enforce. The statement reinforces what is already there.
We can all go back to playing EVE happily knowing that concerns on all sides where heard, deliberated on, and a result was achieved in the form of the statement.
Gf. ------------ |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5590
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with. Holla at ya. Don't forget to tell us how many accounts so I know how many new accounts to sub to compensate. Go cry more noob lol. And **** yeah I'll give my stuff away :) To all the nice people I know of course
So wait. You post telling ccp you are quitting the game (thus costing them money, which is a lie of course, you won't quit)) because they didn't do what you wanted them to and somehow that turns into 'me' crying.
I know you Ero haters were out there, but damn lol.
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
766
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support.
Same, those who choose to remain blind can do so freely as of now.
Erotica 1 For CSM!
D.
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3138
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support. Yes a CCP cave in to the power block
Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1528
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing.
Except for Mittens. That was speshul. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
43
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:18:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
First question is what do you define as extraordinary case .
Second question is why no public response given that Erotica1 Put this in public domain like mittens did back in fanfest. Double standard i think .
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3138
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:19:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing.
Except for Mittens. That was speshul.
Was it CCP who announced his ban, or was it Mittens himself?
EDIT: It looks like you're right, and the special circumstance was the fact that he was CSM Chair and a public figure. No such special circumstances have occurred here, however. Ero may be running for CSM but he hasn't been voted in yet. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
766
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team First question is what do you define as extraordinary case . Second question is why no public response given that Erotica1 Put this in public domain like mittens did back in fanfest. Double standard i think .
Mittens did it AT FANFEST, AKA: REAL LIFE. AKA extraordinary case. Nuff said.
D.
|
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5590
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:20:00 -
[51] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Cedric deBouilard wrote:so... did Erotica 1 got banned or not?
I couldn't get anything from out of CCP corporate-speech No. The statement was made in a very smart way. To the pirate types, who really read the words, it only talks about real life harassment. To the carebear types who don't read the words, it clearly says "erotica 1 was harassing that man." So it get's the people on the witchhunt to stop by, in their mind, making the case look closed, while the pirates and reality simply say this is the same statement the EULA makes.
+1
I really do think that some of the "anti-gank/scam/bad guy" type people saw this as an opportunity to strike a blow against the things they don't like aka 'piggy backing their pet issues onto this one.
Lord knows the original thread had enough 'you see what scamming leads to" and "see, eve bad guys are bad guys IRL" posts.
|
Regis Solo
The Scope Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support. Yes a CCP cave in to the power block Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing.
I'm not quitting asshat |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1528
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing.
Except for Mittens. That was speshul. Was it CCP who announced his ban, or was it Mittens himself?
CCP did. They made it amazingly clear that it was a one-time ever thing, too. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
178
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:20:00 -
[54] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:PinkPanter wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with. Holla at ya. Don't forget to tell us how many accounts so I know how many new accounts to sub to compensate. Go cry more noob lol. And **** yeah I'll give my stuff away :) To all the nice people I know of course So wait. You post telling ccp you are quitting the game (thus costing them money, which is a lie of course, you won't quit)) because they didn't do what you wanted them to and somehow that turns into 'me' crying. I know you Ero haters were out there, but damn lol.
No, I'm selling my toons to convert them to ISK, giving ISK to my friends so they can continue doing what they like and I quit. It's actually that simple.
Sometimes in life you disagree with things and you can either choke it up or move. Nothing extraordinary here. My point is sometimes you need to make a statement or set a rule that will be clear to all and in best interest of the whole community. CCP goes vague again and that's where my road parts. I don't have that MANY accounts but it's something and while I'm sure it won't make a difference to them it will to me. I stood to my principle and honestly whatever you do in life that's how you should go through it. This is just a game. One of many out there. :)
Good luck to all and wish you all the best. :) |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3138
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:21:00 -
[55] - Quote
Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support. Yes a CCP cave in to the power block Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing. I'm not quitting asshat
Reported for personal attack. I reckon the ISD's will be watching this thread closely this time. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
766
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
How much for PinkPanter?
D.
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3138
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing.
Except for Mittens. That was speshul. Was it CCP who announced his ban, or was it Mittens himself? CCP did. They made it amazingly clear that it was a one-time ever thing, too.
Yeah, I noticed, I just looked up the dev blogs explaining it again. It looks like it was due to his very public nature and the fact that he was in a particularly public position as CSM Chair. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1528
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:
No, I'm selling my toons to convert them to ISK, giving ISK to my friends so they can continue doing what they like and I quit. It's actually that simple.
Sometimes in life you disagree with things and you can either choke it up or move. Nothing extraordinary here. My point is sometimes you need to make a statement or set a rule that will be clear to all and in best interest of the whole community. CCP goes vague again and that's where my road parts. I don't have that MANY accounts but it's something and while I'm sure it won't make a difference to them it will to me. I stood to my principle and honestly whatever you do in life that's how you should go through it. This is just a game. One of many out there. :)
Good luck to all and wish you all the best. :)
Have fun, and good luck in your future games! The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
166
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:
CRAZY PEOPLE ARE CRAZY how do we have anything to do with that?
If indeed Kristalll is the one having the Twitch-stream called Kristallnacht, it's an expert. |
Anomaly One
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
101
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
Danalee wrote:How much for PinkPanter? D.
tree fiddy Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk |
|
Regis Solo
The Scope Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support. Yes a CCP cave in to the power block Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing. I'm not quitting asshat Reported for personal attack. I reckon the ISD's will be watching this thread closely this time.
Maybe you should refrain from asking me to leave the game. |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
178
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:24:00 -
[62] - Quote
Danalee wrote:How much for PinkPanter? D.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4379276#post4379276 |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5591
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:24:00 -
[63] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:PinkPanter wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with. Holla at ya. Don't forget to tell us how many accounts so I know how many new accounts to sub to compensate. Go cry more noob lol. And **** yeah I'll give my stuff away :) To all the nice people I know of course So wait. You post telling ccp you are quitting the game (thus costing them money, which is a lie of course, you won't quit)) because they didn't do what you wanted them to and somehow that turns into 'me' crying. I know you Ero haters were out there, but damn lol. No, I'm selling my toons to convert them to ISK, giving ISK to my friends so they can continue doing what they like and I quit. It's actually that simple. Sometimes in life you disagree with things and you can either choke it up or move. Nothing extraordinary here. My point is sometimes you need to make a statement or set a rule that will be clear to all and in best interest of the whole community. CCP goes vague again and that's where my road parts. I don't have that MANY accounts but it's something and while I'm sure it won't make a difference to them it will to me. I stood to my principle and honestly whatever you do in life that's how you should go through it. This is just a game. One of many out there. :) Good luck to all and wish you all the best. :)
That's your right and good luck to you, but it's down right silly to quit a game because some dude who wasn't you lost some virtual things to a trickster type then made a fool of himself trying to get his stuff back. No one died here (despite the threats) and the so called victim is cool with everything.
If this sort of thing gets to you then you decision to be a denizen of the internet in any form might be kind of suspect. Life is harsh. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3140
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:Danalee wrote:How much for PinkPanter? D. tree fiddy
SWEET!! Only half an hour till four twenty then? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
366
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:26:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:
snip
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Thanks for that CCP Falcon and I fully understand that discussions of any action in process (or not) cannot be undertaken.
I do gain comfort in the knowledge that CCP will use the full force of the EULA/TOS for real life harrassment - even if it is dressed up as Bonus Room in-character role playing. |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
75
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:26:00 -
[66] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support. Yes a CCP cave in to the power block Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing. I'm not quitting asshat Reported for personal attack. I reckon the ISD's will be watching this thread closely this time.
Likewise.
|
|
CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
4673
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Hi Falcon!
I have a question for you. I brought this one up specifically in the megathread, so here we go:
Will CCP be applying it's EULA with regards to off-EVE systems. Example: Teamspeak, blogs, Skype, things of that nature.
I'm asking not so much due to the current case, but out of concern that nefarious people may decide to pretend to be someone they wish banned, off of CCP system.
Again, example. Person who hates LAF registers the blog "I_Am_LAF.com". Proceeds to write awful things, violate EULA, and other assorted bad things. Joins random voice comms under my name and spews RL harassment. Would I need to worry about that when it comes to my own account? Thanks in advance!
Hi, Lady Areola Fappington
The EULA has always affected external content to a degree, when that content is shared using our systems. For example when you post a link that contains inappropriate content, even though that content is hosted somewhere outside EVE Online, there's always been potential for disciplinary action. We haven't changed any policies but we do reserve the right, as we always have, to revoke access to our services if they are being used to facilitate something, or share something, that violates our terms of service. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
|
El Space Mariachi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:28:00 -
[68] - Quote
can i get banned for telling my alliance mates to go to h-e-double hockey sticks (not that i would blaspheme) in jabber or on teamspeak if they report it . |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3140
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:28:00 -
[69] - Quote
Regis Solo wrote:
Maybe you should refrain from asking me to leave the game.
I never asked you to leave the game. I said, and you can read the exact words above, "If you're going to quit..."
"If you're going to quit" =/= "Please quit" You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1796
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
I agree with CCPs decision on this one, and I will be paying attention to this thread to see if anyone was banned.
In game scamming should always be apart of EVE, and it should never change.
Harassment should never exhist on or offline. I really hope that people did get a ban. This nor any community does not need people like this. I'm my opinion lines where crossed, even though what happened was out of game and thus shouldn't be subjected to in game consequences. But, in this particular case, in game assets were used in the events that occurred outside of game. Which should be handled as if it did occur in game.
New player experience, more highsec PvE missions, casual play, balance, counters to AFK cloaking, expanding the NEX store, and Power Projection.
Azami Nevinyrall for CSM9! |
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
767
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:
snip
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Thanks for that CCP Falcon and I fully understand that discussions of any action in process (or not) cannot be undertaken. I do gain comfort in the knowledge that CCP will use the full force of the EULA/TOS for real life harrassment - even if it is dressed up as Bonus Room in-character role playing.
Yes, yes. You are right, now have a cookie. I'll be in the bonus room stealing your stuff
D.
|
Muestereate
Minions LLC
257
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:30:00 -
[72] - Quote
So in other words, your doing nothing that you will speak of. Falcon, you and your crew got no balls. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2688
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:30:00 -
[73] - Quote
In general harassment is considered socially unacceptable. Harassment does not require a game. Placing a game in between the perpetrator and the victim does not suddenly make it acceptable. Saying "It's just a game" is an invalid augment because the perpetrator is a real person in the real world and the victim is a real person in the real world. Doing the harassment over a chat channel built into a game does not suddenly make it "Not harassment". http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3140
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:
Likewise.
You'll have to demonstrate where I made one first. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1202
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:30:00 -
[75] - Quote
So basically we still don't know if E1 crossed the line, or if CCP thinks that the bonus room is acceptable behavior.
What are we not allowed to do, can i ask someone to cut himself with a knife for isk?. I'm jnot saying E1 asked anyone to hurt them self, i just want to know if i risk a ban if i do. We are not talking about forcing someone, we are talking about someone doing it of their own free will.
We are clearly allowed to go a lot further then i believed ccp would accept, so where is the line we are not allowed to cross? I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Regis Solo
The Scope Gallente Federation
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:31:00 -
[76] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Regis Solo wrote:
Maybe you should refrain from asking me to leave the game.
I never asked you to leave the game. I said, and you can read the exact words above, "If you're going to quit..." "If you're going to quit" =/= "Please quit"
Whatever |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2862
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:31:00 -
[77] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:facilitate Just pointing out the importance of this word.
Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
103
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:32:00 -
[78] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote: I do gain comfort in the knowledge that CCP will use the full force of the EULA/TOS for real life harrassment - even if it is dressed up as Bonus Room in-character role playing.
Go inject reading comprehension. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3140
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:32:00 -
[79] - Quote
Regis Solo wrote:
Whatever
I remember when we were kids, that was my little sister's go-to word whenever she threw a tantrum cuz she didn't get her way. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
178
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:32:00 -
[80] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
That's your right and good luck to you, but it's down right silly to quit a game because some dude who wasn't you lost some virtual things to a trickster type then made a fool of himself trying to get his stuff back. No one died here (despite the threats) and the so called victim is cool with everything.
If this sort of thing gets to you then you decision to be a denizen of the internet in any form might be kind of suspect. Life is harsh.
I'm not quitting because of that. I have no issue with people scamming each other. I'm quitting because CCP didn't do nothing here really. And I'm not even talking about banning people just letting us know what's the bottom line. They just underlined what's already there and it's so vague that doesn't change a damn thing... Till the next one pops up, and next till something goes really bad.
That's what I don't agree with. They simply still want to be known as turbobad and cash on it till **** hits the fan.
|
|
Brutor Brutor
Non Merchant corporation 0 tax pure capitalism
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:32:00 -
[81] - Quote
A certain well known and very angry alliance leader once told me he was going to skull F-U-C-K my mother.
Can I take retroactive action against him???????????
I was VERY upset at the time of the incident. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
366
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:
snip
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Thanks for that CCP Falcon and I fully understand that discussions of any action in process (or not) cannot be undertaken. I do gain comfort in the knowledge that CCP will use the full force of the EULA/TOS for real life harrassment - even if it is dressed up as Bonus Room in-character role playing. Yes, yes. You are right, now have a cookie. I'll be in the bonus room stealing your stuff D. I'l be in space blowing your ship up instead LOL
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1737
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:33:00 -
[83] - Quote
WooT No EvE Trammel yet.
... and sorry virtual lynch mob, no pound of flesh for you ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
103
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:33:00 -
[84] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:
Hi, Lady Areola Fappington
The EULA has always affected external content to a degree, when that content is shared using our systems. For example when you post a link that contains inappropriate content, even though that content is hosted somewhere outside EVE Online, there's always been potential for disciplinary action. We haven't changed any policies but we do reserve the right, as we always have, to revoke access to our services if they are being used to facilitate something, or share something, that violates our terms of service.
The best example of this is spies from one group (let's say CFC) are in another group (lets say PL) and see PL dudes posting **** links in a structure bash fleet, because that's what people like to do.
The spy then reports all of them and they get banned/tempbanned over offensive material that nobody actually took offense to. Manipulation of the EULA for personal vendettas. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3140
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:34:00 -
[85] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
That's your right and good luck to you, but it's down right silly to quit a game because some dude who wasn't you lost some virtual things to a trickster type then made a fool of himself trying to get his stuff back. No one died here (despite the threats) and the so called victim is cool with everything.
If this sort of thing gets to you then you decision to be a denizen of the internet in any form might be kind of suspect. Life is harsh.
I'm quitting because CCP didn't do nothing here really.
You don't know that for sure, though, because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases, so they won't tell you either way. If you quit now, you're doing it without knowing for sure what CCP will do or have done. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:34:00 -
[86] - Quote
OH MAH LAWD
I would have donated all my isk to have been part of the bonus room as an antagonizer. Where do we signup for that? |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2108
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:34:00 -
[87] - Quote
If Ero is still allowed to play Eve, I just hope he has realized that it is possible to go too far, and that he modifies his behaviour and enjoys his time in the game. This is not a signature. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1532
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:36:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Hi Falcon!
I have a question for you. I brought this one up specifically in the megathread, so here we go:
Will CCP be applying it's EULA with regards to off-EVE systems. Example: Teamspeak, blogs, Skype, things of that nature.
I'm asking not so much due to the current case, but out of concern that nefarious people may decide to pretend to be someone they wish banned, off of CCP system.
Again, example. Person who hates LAF registers the blog "I_Am_LAF.com". Proceeds to write awful things, violate EULA, and other assorted bad things. Joins random voice comms under my name and spews RL harassment. Would I need to worry about that when it comes to my own account? Thanks in advance! Hi, Lady Areola Fappington The EULA has always affected external content to a degree, when that content is shared using our systems. For example when you post a link that contains inappropriate content, even though that content is hosted somewhere outside EVE Online, there's always been potential for disciplinary action. We haven't changed any policies but we do reserve the right, as we always have, to revoke access to our services if they are being used to facilitate something, or share something, that violates our terms of service.
Hey, you're not Falcon! Falcon is the buff, manly man with the mohawk. You're the midget version of Charlie Sheen!
Makes sense, if I'm reading you right. I have nothing to worry about from a person, say, pretending to be "me" as in LAF off of EVE systems in order to cause me EULA issues. It would only hit against myself and accounts if I tied it to myself (Hey look at my ToS breaking blog! versus Hey everyone go look at this ToS breaking blog with LAFs name on it!)
This does put a hitch in my plans for a CCP Guard/Batman/Sansha Kuvakei slashfic though..... The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Malcolm from Marketing
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
74
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:36:00 -
[89] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:As long as Erotica isn't getting away with this without consequences. I am a happy camper.
Even more happier that it is now very crystal clear to everyone that what occurred is not tolerated by CCP.
Thank you very much CCP, faith restored. Read more closely. What was never stated is whether they think the Sohkar situation counts as harassment, and MANY people don't think it does.
And even more people think it does going on the views in the original thread.
Im not confident anything at all will happen to Erotica, this is simply a "watch your antics dont cross a line" announcement from CCP. |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
76
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:37:00 -
[90] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:
Likewise.
You'll have to demonstrate where I made one first.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=332182&p=380
post #7584 |
|
Ambassador Crane
Hellhound Productions
125
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:37:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Please feel free to discuss this statement in this thread, however please also be aware of the forum rules, and our rules on discussion of warnings and bans. Above all, lets keep it civil and constructive. Thanks again.
I understand the statement not to discuss particular cases/bans/etc. However, given that many obviously don't find this announcement to be entirely clear, perhaps we can get some clear examples of what would be considered punishable offenses? I, and I'm sure everyone would agree that not every case can or will be cut and paste situations, that each case can not be planned for. However, just a few examples to help the readers better understand where your minds are at in addressing this would be cool. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2108
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:38:00 -
[92] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with. Holla at ya. Don't forget to tell us how many accounts so I know how many new accounts to sub to compensate. Go cry more noob lol. And **** yeah I'll give my stuff away :) To all the nice people I know of course
It would be better not to quit, go gank a few people to work off your anger instead.
You will feel better for it. This is not a signature. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
663
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:39:00 -
[93] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Kristalll wrote:Shill blurt Keep on shillin Imma link this thread when some poor critter temporarily off his meds gets taken to a TS channel and hazed to the point of homicide. And it would be his fault for not taking his meds as he was ordered by his physician. CRAZY PEOPLE ARE CRAZY how do we have anything to do with that?
Rather than argue the point with your relentlessly disingenuous and tasteless self, i would simply advise you that everything you post will be viewed in that post-meltdown light. Maybe once you've goaded someone to end themselves, without that being the aim of course, just a bit of fun, maybe then you can comfort yourself with some version of victim blaming. Or maybe the guilt will eat you down to the bone.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
44
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:39:00 -
[94] - Quote
Ambassador Crane wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Please feel free to discuss this statement in this thread, however please also be aware of the forum rules, and our rules on discussion of warnings and bans. Above all, lets keep it civil and constructive. Thanks again. I understand the statement not to discuss particular cases/bans/etc. However, given that many obviously don't find this announcement to be entirely clear, perhaps we can get some clear examples of what would be considered punishable offenses? I, and I'm sure everyone would agree that not every case can or will be cut and paste situations, that each case can not be planned for. However, just a few examples to help the readers better understand where your minds are at in addressing this would be cool.
+1 i agree . The statement from CCP does not make it clear. What counts as extraordinary cases . |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:40:00 -
[95] - Quote
Ambassador Crane wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Please feel free to discuss this statement in this thread, however please also be aware of the forum rules, and our rules on discussion of warnings and bans. Above all, lets keep it civil and constructive. Thanks again. I understand the statement not to discuss particular cases/bans/etc. However, given that many obviously don't find this announcement to be entirely clear, perhaps we can get some clear examples of what would be considered punishable offenses? I, and I'm sure everyone would agree that not every case can or will be cut and paste situations, that each case can not be planned for. However, just a few examples to help the readers better understand where your minds are at in addressing this would be cool.
Verbally berating someone and using alts to continually spam the person with death threats/textual abuse.
Basically, if you HARASS someone, you have problems. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2108
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:40:00 -
[96] - Quote
Cedric deBouilard wrote:so... did Erotica 1 got banned or not?
I couldn't get anything from out of CCP corporate-speech
That was the whole point
What action CCP did or did not take is a private matter between CCP and Ero. This is not a signature. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3143
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:40:00 -
[97] - Quote
Firstly, that thread is locked. The moderation has been done. Secondly, I don't think you understand the definition of a personal attack. That was merely a witty method of addressing your demonstrable mouth-frothing blood lust for Ero. Maybe if you consider it a personal attack it's because of that little voice inside your head called a 'guilty conscience'. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5591
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:42:00 -
[98] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:
See this is the part with problems. How you FEEL about it doesn't matter. It plainly wasn't harassment (or torture, btw) based on all definitions.
+1
Not to derail, but as with anyhting with 2 sides, you got one saying "what I think is" and the other saying "how I feel is". That usually goes to the heart of the disagreement in game and irl.
Personally, I don't give a flip about what someone 'feels' on matter of course. |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:42:00 -
[99] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:PinkPanter wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
That's your right and good luck to you, but it's down right silly to quit a game because some dude who wasn't you lost some virtual things to a trickster type then made a fool of himself trying to get his stuff back. No one died here (despite the threats) and the so called victim is cool with everything.
If this sort of thing gets to you then you decision to be a denizen of the internet in any form might be kind of suspect. Life is harsh.
I'm quitting because CCP didn't do nothing here really. You don't know that for sure, though, because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases, so they won't tell you either way. If you quit now, you're doing it without knowing for sure what CCP will do or have done.
And you might be absolutely right thing is it's always like that :) I make games myself and while I'm not a supercorp I use every single input I can get to make people enjoy it. I answer questions as they are asked. Clear, because it's simple and leaves no room for speculation and in this case we all kinda needed that. Scammers so they can go on hard on people and those noobs that will fall for it. As of now it's exactly like it was before and only thing that will change is people will not post recorded **** back :)
|
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:42:00 -
[100] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Rather than argue the point with your relentlessly disingenuous and tasteless self, i would simply advise you that everything you post will be viewed in that post-meltdown light. Maybe once you've goaded someone to end themselves, without that being the aim of course, just a bit of fun, maybe then you can comfort yourself with some version of victim blaming. Or maybe the guilt will eat you down to the bone.
Just like ID Software feels horribly about how they are responsible for releasing Doom and causing columbine to happen. |
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3143
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:42:00 -
[101] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Kristalll wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Kristalll wrote:Shill blurt Keep on shillin Imma link this thread when some poor critter temporarily off his meds gets taken to a TS channel and hazed to the point of homicide. And it would be his fault for not taking his meds as he was ordered by his physician. CRAZY PEOPLE ARE CRAZY how do we have anything to do with that? Rather than argue the point with your relentlessly disingenuous and tasteless self, i would simply advise you that everything you post will be viewed in that post-meltdown light. Maybe once you've goaded someone to end themselves, without that being the aim of course, just a bit of fun, maybe then you can comfort yourself with some version of victim blaming. Or maybe the guilt will eat you down to the bone.
For there to be victim blaming, there first has to be a victim.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3143
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:44:00 -
[102] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:
And you might be absolutely right thing is it's always like that :) I make games myself and while I'm not a supercorp I use every single input I can get to make people enjoy it. I answer questions as they are asked. Clear, because it's simple and leaves no room for speculation and in this case we all kinda needed that. Scammers so they can go on hard on people and those noobs that will fall for it. As of now it's exactly like it was before and only thing that will change is people will not post recorded **** back :)
The choices you make for you are entirely your prerogative. Good luck in your future endeavours. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2724
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:44:00 -
[103] - Quote
Ok, so the discussion about morality is over then Im assuming?
This is just after shocks and talking about the EULA, right? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
76
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:44:00 -
[104] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Firstly, that thread is locked. The moderation has been done. Secondly, I don't think you understand the definition of a personal attack. That was merely a witty method of addressing your demonstrable mouth-frothing blood lust for Ero. Maybe if you consider it a personal attack it's because of that little voice inside your head called a 'guilty conscience'.
Nah, it's a personal attack and was reported. Enjoy :) |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
663
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:45:00 -
[105] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:
Rather than argue the point with your relentlessly disingenuous and tasteless self, i would simply advise you that everything you post will be viewed in that post-meltdown light. Maybe once you've goaded someone to end themselves, without that being the aim of course, just a bit of fun, maybe then you can comfort yourself with some version of victim blaming. Or maybe the guilt will eat you down to the bone.
Just like ID Software feels horribly about how they are responsible for releasing Doom and causing columbine to happen.
Like i said: disingenuous and tasteless.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2727
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:48:00 -
[106] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Ok, so the discussion about morality is over then Im assuming?
This is just after shocks and talking about the EULA, right? I thought you wrote 'shots' instead of 'shocks' there for a second. And because of that, I did three shots of Johnny Blue Label. I really shouldn't be shooting Blue Label, it's too damn expensive for that. Excuse me while I get a proper glass for it.
Aftershocks is a brand of shot-liquer here so thats doubly confusing lol *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Lucretia DeWinter
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
134
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
Thanks for this. It echoes pretty much exactly how I felt about it.
For me, as long the behaviours within the game that become Not Okay outside of it are investigated with resulting action where necessary, I have faith that CCP will do what they say.
This way, the community can be self regulating to a degree. If we know of an incident we feel warrants looking at, we can report to CCP and let them handle it.
Obviously, this might be difficult for some with the (totally correct) non-disclosure of investigative results, but I'd be happy with this position and realise it is pretty much everything CCP can do.
|
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
111
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:51:00 -
[108] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Kristalll wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:
Rather than argue the point with your relentlessly disingenuous and tasteless self, i would simply advise you that everything you post will be viewed in that post-meltdown light. Maybe once you've goaded someone to end themselves, without that being the aim of course, just a bit of fun, maybe then you can comfort yourself with some version of victim blaming. Or maybe the guilt will eat you down to the bone.
Just like ID Software feels horribly about how they are responsible for releasing Doom and causing columbine to happen. Like i said: disingenuous and tasteless.
I don't see how not. On my stream you got to hear me and all the other agents be as genuine as we could possibly be.
Yes, if I was the catalyst that caused someone to kill people, I'd feel a bit guilty. But if that catalyst is causing the person to lose internet spaceship in a game that is literally about losing, killing, and taking internet spaceships, how is that my FAULT?
What about when someone kills themselves because they went AFK and their mission navy raven died in a mission? Whose fault is it then? |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3152
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:51:00 -
[109] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Ok, so the discussion about morality is over then Im assuming?
This is just after shocks and talking about the EULA, right? I thought you wrote 'shots' instead of 'shocks' there for a second. And because of that, I did three shots of Johnny Blue Label. I really shouldn't be shooting Blue Label, it's too damn expensive for that. Excuse me while I get a proper glass for it. Aftershocks is a brand of shot-liquer here so thats doubly confusing lol
I believe, in all honesty, if everyone right now could sit down and have a drink together, and avoid getting into a punch up over who gets to take Riot Girl home, I reckon we'd all have a great time, Ero supporters, dissenters, and neutrals alike. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
367
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:51:00 -
[110] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Kinis Deren wrote: I do gain comfort in the knowledge that CCP will use the full force of the EULA/TOS for real life harrassment - even if it is dressed up as Bonus Room in-character role playing.
Go inject reading comprehension.
You seem upset. I think it is time for your daily injection of medication LOL |
|
Tyburn Stannis
Xenon Salvage Inc.
116
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:52:00 -
[111] - Quote
If all the idjits with named pitchforks would take a moment to calm down and read the MANY examples of CCP and every other game company under the sun who refuse to discuss individual cases, then maybe we could go back to having a "General Discussion".
Here is the standard response to reporting a player in-game via F12:
Thank you for reporting this to us. We will investigate and take action as appropriate according to the EULA and our Terms of Service. Please bear in mind that any action that may or may not be taken against any reported pilot may not be discussed with a third party. Any such actions will remain confidential between CCP and the player in question, as per our Privacy Policy which you can find here.
Sit there and demand your "right to know" about any particular case all you like, but the evolution (devolution may be more appropriate) of Eve Online into "World of Spacecraft" with all the accompanying entitlement horseshjit is getting rather tedious....
o/ |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
739
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP: Define harassment. What are the core litmus tests for crossing twixt grey area, into 'harassment'?
Given the ambiguous nature of the term 'harassment', and the 380 page threadnaught where it was debated, what still remains to be heard in clear terms is how CCP defines harassment, ideally out of game.
Does it include *initiating* conversations with a victim, as opposed to 'accepting'? Does it include some form of repetition, as opposed to single instance of asshattery? Does the pursuit of ISK/Assets (vs pure abuse) lean away from harassment? etc...
Sadly, your formal notation on 'harrassment' is so ambiguous that people can drive a truck through it, or more accurately simply not KNOW honestly when they are harassing someone (IN YOUR EYES) in the fricken sandbox.
p.s. Did you miss that fricken 380 page threadnaught on Erotica1 entirely? Christ.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1532
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:53:00 -
[113] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I believe, in all honesty, if everyone right now could sit down and have a drink together, and avoid getting into a punch up over who gets to take Riot Girl home, I reckon we'd all have a great time, Ero supporters, dissenters, and neutrals alike.
Good point. All I have is one of these little gag bottles of wine I got for valentines day. Bottoms up!
I'm so very scared right now..... The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
166
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:CCP: Define harassment. What are the core litmus tests for crossing twixt grey area, into 'harassment'?
Given the ambiguous nature of the term 'harassment', and the 380 page threadnaught where it was debated, what still remains to be heard in clear terms is how CCP defines harassment, ideally out of game.
Does it include *initiating* conversations with a victim, as opposed to 'accepting'? Does it include some form of repetition, as opposed to single instance of asshattery? Does the pursuit of ISK/Assets (vs pure abuse) lean away from harassment? etc...
Sadly, your formal notation on 'harrassment' is so ambiguous that people can drive a truck through it, or more accurately simply not KNOW honestly when they are harassing someone (IN YOUR EYES) in the fricken sandbox.
p.s. Did you miss that fricken 380 page threadnaught on Erotica1 entirely? Christ.
F
you know... most people tend to feel when it's starting to be funny no longer...
I bullied and got bullied in school and most of the time I knew quite well... |
Anomaly One
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:56:00 -
[115] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:
I don't see how not. On my stream you got to hear me and all the other agents be as genuine as we could possibly be.
Yes, if I was the catalyst that caused someone to kill people, I'd feel a bit guilty. But if that catalyst is causing the person to lose internet spaceship in a game that is literally about losing, killing, and taking internet spaceships, how is that my FAULT?
What about when someone kills themselves because they went AFK and their mission navy raven died in a mission? Whose fault is it then?
As I (wanted) to reply in the locked thread if you have to take into account everyone's feelings while playing, no one would play any online games. Go and do some pvp shoot someones ship and turns out he had a bad day w/e **** and he rages over his lost ship and does something bad irl because of it, no one to blame but himself.
I hate it when people try to act like others have no will power, it's always someones fault but never theirs. Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk |
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
77
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:57:00 -
[116] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: I always enjoy vexatious reporting. It reminds me of the dozens of vexatious threats of litigation I receive on a daily basis.
Yet, after all this time you still haven't stopped, looked in the mirror and wondered, why? Time for some personal development perhaps?
|
Anomaly One
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:58:00 -
[117] - Quote
Tyburnn Stannis wrote: go back to having a "General Discussion".
you must be new here this IS General Discussion, if there isn't a threadnaught per day filled with **** posting then something's wrong. Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk |
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:00:00 -
[118] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:No, I'm selling my toons to convert them to ISK, giving ISK to my friends so they can continue doing what they like and I quit. It's actually that simple.
Sometimes in life you disagree with things and you can either choke it up or move. Nothing extraordinary here. My point is sometimes you need to make a statement or set a rule that will be clear to all and in best interest of the whole community. CCP goes vague again and that's where my road parts. I don't have that MANY accounts but it's something and while I'm sure it won't make a difference to them it will to me. I stood to my principle and honestly whatever you do in life that's how you should go through it. I'm here for quite a while now but I know this is just a game and never really looked at it in any other way. One of many out there. :)
Good luck to all and wish you all the best. :) Bye then. Although I seriously doubt you will actually quit, seems more like an attention seeking move to me.
Also, it is quite pathetic and self important of you to think that anyone really cares about whether you decide to quit or not.
If you are going to go, then go with at least a modicum of decency and without mouthing off and making threats on the forum. If enough people follow your move, then CCP will take notice when subscription numbers drop. Although I doubt that will happen.
Also. +1 for CCP statement. I don't really care what happened to Erotica, I didn't even both to listen to that audio. The main thing is the policy is correct and CCP implement it as they see fit. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3153
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:00:00 -
[119] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
I believe, in all honesty, if everyone right now could sit down and have a drink together, and avoid getting into a punch up over who gets to take Riot Girl home, I reckon we'd all have a great time, Ero supporters, dissenters, and neutrals alike.
Good point. All I have is one of these little gag bottles of wine I got for valentines day. Bottoms up! I'm so very scared right now.....
I would have a drink with any eve player any day of the week. Even the Russian clown that aggressed me solo in his Cynabal yesterday, which I was beating, only to jump two frickin armour RR boats in to save him and kill my less-than-a-day-old PVP Ferox with only a Pilgrim kill to it's name, then lose my 1.7bil pod because I clicked something wrong on the selected item box, causing it to minimise and lose the warp button just at the moment it was needed the most.
He might fight dirty, he might have cost me 1.7bil, but I'd still drink with him. I'd still have a drink with the guy that called me an arsehat. I'd still have a drink with the Goonswarm 'recruiter' from last year that liberated half a billion from my wallet and two billion in BPOs from my possession.
I'd drink with all you sociopathic spreadsheet pedants.
I can't wait to go to fanfest next year. Every time I think about it my heart skips a beat.
No, wait.....
No, I've just had too much to drink, never mind. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
741
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:00:00 -
[120] - Quote
embrel wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:CCP: Define harassment. What are the core litmus tests for crossing twixt grey area, into 'harassment'?
Given the ambiguous nature of the term 'harassment', and the 380 page threadnaught where it was debated, what still remains to be heard in clear terms is how CCP defines harassment, ideally out of game.
Does it include *initiating* conversations with a victim, as opposed to 'accepting'? Does it include some form of repetition, as opposed to single instance of asshattery? Does the pursuit of ISK/Assets (vs pure abuse) lean away from harassment? etc...
Sadly, your formal notation on 'harrassment' is so ambiguous that people can drive a truck through it, or more accurately simply not KNOW honestly when they are harassing someone (IN YOUR EYES) in the fricken sandbox.
p.s. Did you miss that fricken 380 page threadnaught on Erotica1 entirely? Christ.
F
you know... most people tend to feel when it's starting to be funny no longer... I bullied and got bullied in school and most of the time I knew quite well... I'm being quite serious here, and as the 380 page threadnaught made clear everyones interpretation on when the 'LINE' is crossed is DIFFERENT. So, all I am saying is how does CCP measure that line beyond a silly 'harassment' catch phrase, with clear guidance to people who will be operating in that grey area, to not cross said line?
Is that so fricken hard to understand? Because in all seriousness if I for example want to emulate Erotica1 in the future with a bonus room scenario, and I preface the session with the client making a statement that he waives all claims against 'harassment' by taking part, am I good to go and make a mockery of him?
380 fricken pages later, limp wristed ambiguity helps no one.
hmf.
Would you like to know more? |
|
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2527
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:02:00 -
[121] - Quote
"that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service."
Sounds good to me. Also sounds like this was clearly not a serious case of harassment. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Effect One
Vengeful Swan
151
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:03:00 -
[122] - Quote
I think we can all agree that real life harassment is a reprehensible thing.
CCP's redudant statement, designed to placate one half of the community, having been said, it's good to assume they will not be doing anything about the current case. With all the overhyped ludicrous nonsense being thrown around in the (now locked) other thread, I did think they might cave. Sorry for losing faith.
'EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay' - CCP Rise |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2862
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:03:00 -
[123] - Quote
I actually like vague definitions creating grey areas. It allows CCP to take action when they see fit and not being coerced either by law and order freaks or pastime lawyers that go "technically" on a case. A grey area gives CCP the agility to deal with these kind of cases that aren't clear cut. Enter the fog at your own peril. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3153
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:03:00 -
[124] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: I always enjoy vexatious reporting. It reminds me of the dozens of vexatious threats of litigation I receive on a daily basis.
Yet, after all this time you still haven't stopped, looked in the mirror and wondered, why? Time for some personal development perhaps?
I know exactly why. Because writing an article calling a homeopath a quack, and demonstrably so, makes them feel letigious. Don't need to look in a mirror to figure that out.
Don't worry, I'd still have a drink with you too. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
103
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:04:00 -
[125] - Quote
*hooks thumbs in his bibs* Well, hello thar. Thought I'd just drop in with my barrel o' smug. Seems I need a refill. Ooh, lookie thar, it's all full!
:)
In all seriousness, thank you Falcon and Guard for updating the community on the stance of CCP in matters such as these. My thoughts on the whole deal should be well known, but I won't know if what I was calling for has happened or not (at least anytime soon). That was never my decision to make - just CCP's.
I do feel bad about one thing: we could have used that threadnaught to discuss how this entire underlying subject (harassment, abuse, and belittlement of fellow players) effects each of us in the long run in the realm of New Eden. But some of you chose to make it your agenda to derail the discussion at all costs. For that, I'm saddened.
For those that want to take serious stock of the whole discussion (and how it may effect us all) many players have written their views in blogs and I've collected them here. thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:04:00 -
[126] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote: Bye then. Although I seriously doubt you will actually quit, seems more like an attention seeking move to me.
Also, it is quite pathetic and self important of you to think that anyone really cares about whether you decide to quit or not.
If you are going to go, then go with at least a modicum of decency and without mouthing off and making threats on the forum. If enough people follow your move, then CCP will take notice when subscription numbers drop. Although I doubt that will happen.
Also. +1 for CCP statement. I don't really care what happened to Erotica, I didn't even both to listen to that audio. The main thing is the policy is correct and CCP implement it as they see fit.
So why reply. makes you feel special for calling people out as "attention seekers" lol? Or you want to get a lot of "likes" for being awesome? Also attention seeking is a interesting term. My life is pretty ******* awesome and I'm here to play a game. Don't like things so I move on. So explain that term to me again cause I'm genuinely confused what are you referring to. I simply said I will do that if we are left dark again so just confirming my word for CCP to acknowledge it. |
OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:04:00 -
[127] - Quote
I DON'T THINK THAT EROTICAL WILL BE BANNED BECAUSE THAT WOULD OPEN BIGGER CAN OF WHUPASS THAN ANYTHING YOU CAN EVER IMAGINED. THIS LITTLE BITCHFORKING EPISODE BY RIPARD TEGS'S LITTLE MINIONS WILL BE A DROP IN THE OCAEN COMPARED TO TAKING AWAY EROTICA1LS GAME TIME. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3160
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:05:00 -
[128] - Quote
OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE wrote:I DON'T THINK THAT EROTICAL WILL BE BANNED BECAUSE THAT WOULD OPEN BIGGER CAN OF WHUPASS THAN ANYTHING YOU CAN EVER IMAGINED. THIS LITTLE BITCHFORKING EPISODE BY RIPARD TEGS'S LITTLE MINIONS WILL BE A DROP IN THE OCAEN COMPARED TO TAKING AWAY EROTICA1LS GAME TIME.
There's always one You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1203
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:08:00 -
[129] - Quote
OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE wrote:I DON'T THINK THAT EROTICAL WILL BE BANNED BECAUSE THAT WOULD OPEN BIGGER CAN OF WHUPASS THAN ANYTHING YOU CAN EVER IMAGINED. THIS LITTLE BITCHFORKING EPISODE BY RIPARD TEGS'S LITTLE MINIONS WILL BE A DROP IN THE OCAEN COMPARED TO TAKING AWAY EROTICA1LS GAME TIME.
0/10 I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2730
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:08:00 -
[130] - Quote
OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE wrote:EROTICAL
Sounds hot
Tell me more about CAN EAT MORE
edit: Is this some sort of after-assed falseflag or something? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
|
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:08:00 -
[131] - Quote
Coffee Rocks wrote: But some of you chose to make it your agenda to derail the discussion at all costs. For that, I'm saddened. It was a GD thread, so to be honest, I would be surprised if that didn't happen.
|
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1347
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:09:00 -
[132] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
bolded the important part - it will be interesting to see if recordings of 3rd party voicecomms that somehow surface on the internet pass this test or not. |
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:09:00 -
[133] - Quote
I am glad CCP has taken a stand and drawn a line in the sand -box- so to speak. Dont just think outside the box, Live outside of it... |
Sato Page
BLOORDOGY
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:10:00 -
[134] - Quote
Read: We know you are upset. E1 may or may not have crossed the line. We may or may not take any action. What ever we do or not do you will never know. Well done, well done! |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3160
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:10:00 -
[135] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE wrote:EROTICAL Sounds hot Tell me more about CAN EAT MORE edit: Is this some sort of after-assed falseflag or something?
CAN'T YOU TELL HE'S TRYING TO BITCHFORK HERE??? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2864
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:11:00 -
[136] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote:Coffee Rocks wrote: But some of you chose to make it your agenda to derail the discussion at all costs. For that, I'm saddened. It was a GD thread, so to be honest, I would be surprised if that didn't happen. Just looking at Chribba's statistics for that thread shows the usual suspects among the posters with a huge post count.
Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:12:00 -
[137] - Quote
PLAESE THIS IS A SERIOUS DISCUSSION AND AGREE WITH STEVE ABOUT EVERYONE SITTING DOWN FOR A DRINK TOEGETHER. WHAT I TRY TO SAY IS THIS ANNOUNCEMENT PROBABLY TO ME JUST SAY CARRY ON PLAY EVE BUT IF YOU WANT TO DO SCAMS AND STUFF DON'T GO ON TEAMSPAENK AND ADD THE SOUND TO A VIRTUAL CLOUD IF THAT MAKES SENSE I THINK AT ALL SAID IT DOES. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2730
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:14:00 -
[138] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE wrote:EROTICAL Sounds hot Tell me more about CAN EAT MORE edit: Is this some sort of after-assed falseflag or something? CAN'T YOU TELL HE'S TRYING TO BITCHFORK HERE???
It brought forth tears to my glazzies *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3160
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:14:00 -
[139] - Quote
OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE wrote:PLAESE THIS IS A SERIOUS DISCUSSION AND AGREE WITH STEVE ABOUT EVERYONE SITTING DOWN FOR A DRINK TOEGETHER. WHAT I TRY TO SAY IS THIS ANNOUNCEMENT PROBABLY TO ME JUST SAY CARRY ON PLAY EVE BUT IF YOU WANT TO DO SCAMS AND STUFF DON'T GO ON TEAMSPAENK AND ADD THE SOUND TO A VIRTUAL CLOUD IF THAT MAKES SENSE I THINK AT ALL SAID IT DOES.
Did you just call me Steve? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
104
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:14:00 -
[140] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Marcia en Welle wrote:Coffee Rocks wrote: But some of you chose to make it your agenda to derail the discussion at all costs. For that, I'm saddened. It was a GD thread, so to be honest, I would be surprised if that didn't happen. Just looking at Chribba's statistics for that thread shows the usual suspects among the posters with a huge post count.
It has crossed my mind that this would be a good time to start making examples of forum rules... thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
|
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:15:00 -
[141] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Marcia en Welle wrote: Bye then. Although I seriously doubt you will actually quit, seems more like an attention seeking move to me.
Also, it is quite pathetic and self important of you to think that anyone really cares about whether you decide to quit or not.
If you are going to go, then go with at least a modicum of decency and without mouthing off and making threats on the forum. If enough people follow your move, then CCP will take notice when subscription numbers drop. Although I doubt that will happen.
Also. +1 for CCP statement. I don't really care what happened to Erotica, I didn't even both to listen to that audio. The main thing is the policy is correct and CCP implement it as they see fit.
So why reply. makes you feel special for calling people out as "attention seekers" lol? Or you want to get a lot of "likes" for being awesome? Also attention seeking is a interesting term. My life is pretty ******* awesome and I'm here to play a game. Don't like things so I move on. So explain that term to me again cause I'm genuinely confused what are you referring to. I simply said I will do that if we are left dark again so just confirming my word for CCP to acknowledge it.
People who feel the need to make threats about cancelling their accounts, (it is still a threat right now as you haven't actually done it yet), also obviously feel that their opinion and support is so important to the rest of us that they need to announce it on the forums. Sounds like something that a self important kind of fool would say to me. As is someone announcing how awesome their life is on a forum when no one really cares and it is not relevant to the discussion.
But it is ok, I'm pretty sure you are still a kid from the way you speak, so hopefully you will grow out of it. |
Marie Trudeau
Trudeau Industrie SA
19
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:15:00 -
[142] - Quote
That's a very clever and well-done statement I think.
It doesn't say what happened here is considered to be that, or if it is which of the persons was considered to be doing that, at all, really.
Clever, and likely appropriate given how divided people seem to be about the issue that prompted the massive threadnought. |
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:19:00 -
[143] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote:PinkPanter wrote:Marcia en Welle wrote: Bye then. Although I seriously doubt you will actually quit, seems more like an attention seeking move to me.
Also, it is quite pathetic and self important of you to think that anyone really cares about whether you decide to quit or not.
If you are going to go, then go with at least a modicum of decency and without mouthing off and making threats on the forum. If enough people follow your move, then CCP will take notice when subscription numbers drop. Although I doubt that will happen.
Also. +1 for CCP statement. I don't really care what happened to Erotica, I didn't even both to listen to that audio. The main thing is the policy is correct and CCP implement it as they see fit.
So why reply. makes you feel special for calling people out as "attention seekers" lol? Or you want to get a lot of "likes" for being awesome? Also attention seeking is a interesting term. My life is pretty ******* awesome and I'm here to play a game. Don't like things so I move on. So explain that term to me again cause I'm genuinely confused what are you referring to. I simply said I will do that if we are left dark again so just confirming my word for CCP to acknowledge it. People who feel the need to make threats about cancelling their accounts, (it is still a threat right now as you haven't actually done it yet), also obviously feel that their opinion and support is so important to the rest of us that they need to announce it on the forums. Sounds like something that a self important kind of fool would say to me. As is someone announcing how awesome their life is on a forum when no one really cares and it is not relevant to the discussion.
Haha threats? What's wrong with you?
Go take some meds haha
A threat differs from a statement but I guess they didn't teach you that in school.
Wonders of eve community. I have to say that as I will miss people like you. Complete morons who think a game means something more than just entertainment.
I like those people though. They fuel my games as well with their undying loyalty to pixels :) |
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:20:00 -
[144] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Prie Mary wrote:I am glad CCP has taken a stand and drawn a line in the sand -box- so to speak. Problem is, the sand blew and covered the line, so folk are still pretty clueless as to what is and what is not acceptable. Does it actually matter? Neither me, and hopefully not you, will never go with an intention of causing someone harrassment outside of the game, so why is everyone so interested in knowing precisely where the line is drawn. Is that so you can push it to the boundry yourself, because if you are thinking like that then you are already not thinking right. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3162
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:21:00 -
[145] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: I always enjoy vexatious reporting. It reminds me of the dozens of vexatious threats of litigation I receive on a daily basis.
Yet, after all this time you still haven't stopped, looked in the mirror and wondered, why? Time for some personal development perhaps? I know exactly why. Because writing an article calling a homeopath a quack, and demonstrably so, makes them feel letigious. Don't need to look in a mirror to figure that out. Don't worry, I'd still have a drink with you too. Likewise, I have always enjoyed a good ole' debate. Some kind of satisfaction is to be had breaking down ones argument, though I prefer strong arguments over the weaker ones. Otherwise, where is the challenge? Agree to disagree I say!
I said I'd have a drink with you. Never said I think you'd amount to anything on an academic stage. Intellectual dishonesty forbids you from the pleasure of being taken seriously. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:21:00 -
[146] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Marcia en Welle wrote:PinkPanter wrote:Marcia en Welle wrote: Bye then. Although I seriously doubt you will actually quit, seems more like an attention seeking move to me.
Also, it is quite pathetic and self important of you to think that anyone really cares about whether you decide to quit or not.
If you are going to go, then go with at least a modicum of decency and without mouthing off and making threats on the forum. If enough people follow your move, then CCP will take notice when subscription numbers drop. Although I doubt that will happen.
Also. +1 for CCP statement. I don't really care what happened to Erotica, I didn't even both to listen to that audio. The main thing is the policy is correct and CCP implement it as they see fit.
So why reply. makes you feel special for calling people out as "attention seekers" lol? Or you want to get a lot of "likes" for being awesome? Also attention seeking is a interesting term. My life is pretty ******* awesome and I'm here to play a game. Don't like things so I move on. So explain that term to me again cause I'm genuinely confused what are you referring to. I simply said I will do that if we are left dark again so just confirming my word for CCP to acknowledge it. People who feel the need to make threats about cancelling their accounts, (it is still a threat right now as you haven't actually done it yet), also obviously feel that their opinion and support is so important to the rest of us that they need to announce it on the forums. Sounds like something that a self important kind of fool would say to me. As is someone announcing how awesome their life is on a forum when no one really cares and it is not relevant to the discussion. Haha threats? What's wrong with you? Go take some meds haha A threat differs from a statement but I guess they didn't teach you that in school. Wonders of eve community. I have to say that as I will miss people like you. Complete morons who think a game means something more than just entertainment. I like those people though. They fuel my games as well with their undying loyalty to pixels :) Hehe. Now it becomes clear that we are dealing with a 12 year old. |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1100
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:22:00 -
[147] - Quote
Erotica1 is still on the billboards in Jita, looming like a spectre over the capital of EVE, the idea of Ero1 will never die. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2730
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:23:00 -
[148] - Quote
Pixels cant run off with Brenda from down the chip shop *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Marcia en Welle
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:23:00 -
[149] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Erotica1 is still on the billboards in Jita, looming like a spectre over the capital of EVE, the idea of Ero1 will never die. Yes, because all these whinetards have encouraged here and made her even more important than the insignificant being she really is. Well done everyone. |
BLerchg
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:24:00 -
[150] - Quote
Thank you, CCP for taking a stance against those disturbing people that dont know the difference between game and real life. |
|
Anslo
Scope Works
4607
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:25:00 -
[151] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Marcia en Welle wrote:PinkPanter wrote:Marcia en Welle wrote: Bye then. Although I seriously doubt you will actually quit, seems more like an attention seeking move to me.
Also, it is quite pathetic and self important of you to think that anyone really cares about whether you decide to quit or not.
If you are going to go, then go with at least a modicum of decency and without mouthing off and making threats on the forum. If enough people follow your move, then CCP will take notice when subscription numbers drop. Although I doubt that will happen.
Also. +1 for CCP statement. I don't really care what happened to Erotica, I didn't even both to listen to that audio. The main thing is the policy is correct and CCP implement it as they see fit.
So why reply. makes you feel special for calling people out as "attention seekers" lol? Or you want to get a lot of "likes" for being awesome? Also attention seeking is a interesting term. My life is pretty ******* awesome and I'm here to play a game. Don't like things so I move on. So explain that term to me again cause I'm genuinely confused what are you referring to. I simply said I will do that if we are left dark again so just confirming my word for CCP to acknowledge it. People who feel the need to make threats about cancelling their accounts, (it is still a threat right now as you haven't actually done it yet), also obviously feel that their opinion and support is so important to the rest of us that they need to announce it on the forums. Sounds like something that a self important kind of fool would say to me. As is someone announcing how awesome their life is on a forum when no one really cares and it is not relevant to the discussion. Haha threats? What's wrong with you? Go take some meds haha A threat differs from a statement but I guess they didn't teach you that in school. Wonders of eve community. I have to say that as I will miss people like you. Complete morons who think a game means something more than just entertainment. I like those people though. They fuel my games as well with their undying loyalty to pixels :) Pinky, evemail or gmail me. I need your help something fierce. Things have changed since you last saw Scope Fleet.
|
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
181
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:26:00 -
[152] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote: Heh. Now it becomes clear that we are dealing with a 12 year old. Wait until you are a bit older and you might look back and understand what I said.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense now. Your wisdom and words loaded with merit will for ever stay in my mind and guide me through the depths of intelectual pursuit for the ultimate answer about my life.
hahahahaha |
Salvos Rhoska
843
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:27:00 -
[153] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:I said I'd have a drink with you.
I would gladly have a drink and a laugh with any other participant of the threadnaught, including Erotica1, except you.
No way, no how. ------------ |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3163
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:27:00 -
[154] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote:Now it becomes clear that we are dealing with a 12 year old. Wait until you are a bit older and you might look back and understand what I said.
That's not clear at all. Do you have a copy of this person's birth certificate? Maturity isn't defined by physical age, not is it defined by someone else's opinion, and nor is it attached with a tag identifying how or why it matters or is relevant. I've been quite immature in many places on this thread, and I'm proud that for thirty years old, I haven't lost my ability to act like a child at times. I don't agree with almost anything PinkPanter has said over the last few days, and I've argued strongly against it on many occasions, but I defend her right to be immature, and to have and express her opinion, even if it's an emotionally charged and therefore irrelevant and biased one. What I don't defend are either of you just bickering for its own sake. You're just as bad as each other in that regard. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Aryndel Vyst
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
719
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:27:00 -
[155] - Quote
CCP,
I am the arbiter of punishments for Goonswarm Federation. Occasionally people do some dumb **** with our infrastructure and require some discipline. Are you saying I will get in trouble if I continue to make these people read erotic My Little Pony fanfiction over mumble and then record it and put it on youtube?
Thanks in advance,
Aryndel Vyst Authorization Director GoonWaffe GoonSwarm Federation Office: VFK-IV |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5595
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:28:00 -
[156] - Quote
OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE wrote: EROTICAL EROTICA1LS
WTF is wrong here? Why did I get a boner reading these words? I need a cold shower now.
|
Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
95
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:29:00 -
[157] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
So in a hypothetical situation where you are able to scam someone of all their in-game assets(which is totally fine). If after accomplishing this fact you use their greed, and sense of helplessness and the emotional value those assets have to them to harass and humiliate a player for 2 hours, including harassing other people in the room , then post this online, and link to it. That person would be permanently banned from this community and game correct? With some level of punishment including up to and including permanent bans for any accomplices.
If that was the case I could continue to play this game with a clear conscience. If that was not the case and this hypothetical person was ever seen in game again. I'm not sure I could support CCP with my income, no matter how much I enjoy the game and its stories. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3163
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:29:00 -
[158] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE wrote: EROTICAL EROTICA1LS WTF is wrong here? Why did I get a boner reading these words? I need a cold shower now.
He got my name wrong earlier. Called me Steve.
CLEARLY my name is Kenny Loggins. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Bunnie Hop
517
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:31:00 -
[159] - Quote
So the same people who argued in the other thread are now bringing it to this thread...lovely. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3163
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:31:00 -
[160] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:I said I'd have a drink with you. I would gladly have a drink and a laugh with any other participant of the threadnaught, including Erotica1, except you. No way, no how.
Your loss. Pretty sure Ero will be drinking with me as well though so.... looks like you have a dilemma on your hands. Maybe you should stop taking things so personally. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5595
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:33:00 -
[161] - Quote
Coffee Rocks wrote:
I do feel bad about one thing: we could have used that threadnaught to discuss how this entire underlying subject (harassment, abuse, and belittlement of fellow players) effects each of us in the long run in the realm of New Eden
Called it.
|
Muestereate
Minions LLC
257
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:35:00 -
[162] - Quote
not enough sunlight and inbreeding, Its like Deliverance on that rock of theirs. Now squeal like a pig boy |
Salvos Rhoska
843
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:36:00 -
[163] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Your loss. I dont think so. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2734
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:36:00 -
[164] - Quote
My eroticals hurt *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3163
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:37:00 -
[165] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Your loss. I dont think so.
That's because you don't know what you're missing out on. In your case, ignorance really is bliss.
You know, even though you've stated you'd refuse to drink with me, I'd still let you. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
115
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:37:00 -
[166] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team So in a hypothetical situation where you are able to scam someone of all their in-game assets(which is totally fine). If after accomplishing this fact you use their greed, and sense of helplessness and the emotional value those assets have to them to harass and humiliate a player for 2 hours, including harassing other people in the room , then post this online, and link to it. That person would be permanently banned from this community and game correct? With some level of punishment including up to and including permanent bans for any accomplices. If that was the case I could continue to play this game with a clear conscience. If that was not the case and this hypothetical person was ever seen in game again. I'm not sure I could support CCP with my income, no matter how much I enjoy the game and its stories.
Not a SINGLE person has said you can harass people. Where you seem to be caught up in the retoric is ASSUMING any harassment happened in the Sohkar case, when objective evidence says the opposite.
|
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1537
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:38:00 -
[167] - Quote
Aryndel Vyst wrote:CCP,
I am the arbiter of punishments for Goonswarm Federation. Occasionally people do some dumb **** with our infrastructure and require some discipline. Are you saying I will get in trouble if I continue to make these people read erotic My Little Pony fanfiction over mumble and then record it and put it on youtube?
Thanks in advance,
Aryndel Vyst Authorization Director GoonWaffe GoonSwarm Federation Office: VFK-IV
That would be a solid and authentic "maybe", Commissar. It all depends on if your subject feels harassed. Our you do. Or a random blogger.
Aside from all that, I hear you're a good source for erotic MLP fanfics. Tell me more.... The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5595
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:39:00 -
[168] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team So in a hypothetical situation where you are able to scam someone of all their in-game assets(which is totally fine). If after accomplishing this fact you use their greed, and sense of helplessness and the emotional value those assets have to them to harass and humiliate a player for 2 hours, including harassing other people in the room , then post this online, and link to it. That person would be permanently banned from this community and game correct? With some level of punishment including up to and including permanent bans for any accomplices. If that was the case I could continue to play this game with a clear conscience. If that was not the case and this hypothetical person was ever seen in game again. I'm not sure I could support CCP with my income, no matter how much I enjoy the game and its stories.
Translation : get rid of people I don't like or lose my 15bux times however many accounts!
I once told a beautiful woman I dated who I thought was spending too much time with her business partner dude something similar: It's either him or me, CHOOSE!! I hear her and her husband/business partner (and her new girlfriend who is half Brazilian/half French) are very happy now all living together....... I've learned to stfu now.
Door is that way ----> |
Tyburn Stannis
Xenon Salvage Inc.
118
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:39:00 -
[169] - Quote
Oh great, another imminent threadnaught of people too busy waving placards to understand two basic principles of online games.
CCP will never make a definitive list of what is or is not harassment, griefing, exploits etc... because a) every case is different, and b) don't ever lock yourself into arbitrary precedents.
CCP will never tell you what actions they have or have not taken against any particular pilot, corporation, alliance, account or player. Confidentiality. It's a thing.
Good few folks round here need to the keyboard down and step away from the internet...
It's sunny outside. See ya.
o/
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
2944
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:40:00 -
[170] - Quote
I had to read CCP's statement twice, but here's what I got from it:
We've been dealing with these kinds of incidents for 10 years already. We're not going to change any rules or the general asshat nature of the game. Feel free to be as mean and evil as always-- ingame. But-- Harassing people in real life is morally bad, and we don't approve. If we hear of a notorious or extraordinary case of it, we will take disciplinary action against player accounts.
Seems like business as usual to me. The only meat I see in that was the company took the stance that "real life harassment is morally reprehensible." That's something. Some people here might rage quit over that statement, if they notice it. |
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3163
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:41:00 -
[171] - Quote
Tyburn Stannis wrote:Oh great, another imminent threadnaught of people too busy waving placards to understand two basic principles of online games.
CCP will never make a definitive list of what is or is not harassment, griefing, exploits etc... because a) every case is different, and b) don't ever lock yourself into arbitrary precedents.
CCP will never tell you what actions they have or have not taken against any particular pilot, corporation, alliance, account or player. Confidentiality. It's a thing.
Good few folks round here need to the keyboard down and step away from the internet...
It's sunny outside. See ya.
o/
Not here it's not. The sun went down five hours ago. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2877
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:41:00 -
[172] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team So in a hypothetical situation where you are able to scam someone of all their in-game assets(which is totally fine). If after accomplishing this fact you use their greed, and sense of helplessness and the emotional value those assets have to them to harass and humiliate a player for 2 hours, including harassing other people in the room , then post this online, and link to it. That person would be permanently banned from this community and game correct? With some level of punishment including up to and including permanent bans for any accomplices. If that was the case I could continue to play this game with a clear conscience. If that was not the case and this hypothetical person was ever seen in game again. I'm not sure I could support CCP with my income, no matter how much I enjoy the game and its stories.
Asking someone to sing songs to get isk for in a single two hour session is not "harassment" or "humiliation". It's silly nonsense - perhaps a bit mean, if it's done tauntingly, but it's not harassment or abuse.
Hope this helps :)
|
Salvos Rhoska
843
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:42:00 -
[173] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:That's because you don't know what you're missing out on I know exactly. I dont drink or associate with a person like you. I wouldnt even give you the time of day.
Thats that. ------------ |
Qalix
Long Jump.
235
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:43:00 -
[174] - Quote
This was handled much like the Somer Blink issue was handled. A vague response that hits everyone's sweet spot (harassment is bad; evil is good), but makes no real claims or promises, and then a withdrawal into silence. Sigh. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3164
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:48:00 -
[175] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:That's because you don't know what you're missing out on I know exactly. I dont drink or associate with a person like you. I wouldnt even give you the time of day. Thats that.
But you don't know me, so you don't know what you're missing out on.
I would certainly rather get to know you before making judgements on what 'type' of person you are. Isn't that the rational way to form judgements? Or is jumping to conclusions the preferred course of action here? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
tasman devil
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:49:00 -
[176] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team Good Talk
Now... what happens to our two lovebirds?
Namely: Erotica1 - who has committed harassment of bannable to life proportions Sohkar - who -although enraged beyond measure at that point- posted life threats on the voice chat
So what now? To punish them both (Ero1 - life ban, Soh - 30 days ban) would be a hard but justifiable course of action. I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either... |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
892
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:50:00 -
[177] - Quote
Thank you for the clarification, CCP.
Please clarify.
I have no idea what that means. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Salvos Rhoska
844
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:51:00 -
[178] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:Does anyone have already a subtitle for what CCP said? Or they just talking without saying anyhting? Stands to reason that if any future conduct fits the specific wording in the statement, action will be taken.
EULA/TOS has not changed, but the statement reinforces they will act on any such future incidents. ------------ |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5597
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:51:00 -
[179] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:I think the behaviour and attitude Salvos demonstrates in these threads is toxic for the community. He repeatedly expressed the personal joy he'd feel if other members of the community were physically assaulted, and has demonised as many people as he could to try and push his agenda.
It's rather gross.
Yep, and it's that same guy who has the single highest post count in the thread that got lock, the thread where he tried to internet lawyer a guy into a ban for being toxic to the community.
It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3164
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:51:00 -
[180] - Quote
tasman devil wrote:Good Talk
Now... what happens to our two lovebirds?
Namely: Erotica1 - who has committed harassment of bannable to life proportions Sohkar - who -although enraged beyond measure at that point- posted life threats on the voice chat
So what now? To punish them both (Ero1 - life ban, Soh - 30 days ban) would be a hard but justifiable course of action.
CCP Falcon wrote:
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
|
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2881
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:51:00 -
[181] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:Does anyone have already a subtitle for what CCP said? Or they just talking without saying anyhting?
The summary is they repeated the stance they've always had: real life harassment is bad, don't do it. No changes to the EULA/TOS were made, and as normal they won't discuss individual cases/players.
So basically nothing changed at all. Unfortunately we still have to deal with the :moral high horse: brigade trivialising ****, torture, etc with their desperate, repulsive inflammatory posts, and even a few who are condoning real life violence. |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
2944
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:51:00 -
[182] - Quote
GÇ£You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you canGÇÖt please all of the people all of the time. And if you try to please all of the people at once, you usually come off looking like an *******." -Abraham Lincoln |
Salvos Rhoska
844
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:52:00 -
[183] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s
Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it. But gf for making me respond. ------------ |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5597
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:54:00 -
[184] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it. But gf for making me respond.
Who gives a flip who you drink with?
I'm talking about your behavior as a person. namely "I'd laugh if someone hit Erotica1 in the face" and all the other crap you spewed in the now locked thread (and threads before it). |
OUTLAW RIOT P0LICE
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:54:00 -
[185] - Quote
LOTS OF POSTS GOT DELTED FROM THIS THREAD. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3164
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:54:00 -
[186] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it. But gf for making me respond.
Who you choose to drink with is not what he was talking about. Still not reading anything I see. Nothing's changed. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3308
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:55:00 -
[187] - Quote
I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2881
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:55:00 -
[188] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s Who I choose to drink with, is my business. And doesn't make me a "bad" guy, no matter how you twist it. But gf for making me respond.
No, what makes you a bad guy is encouraging real life violence, and for trivialising real human suffering.
hope this helps :) |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
575
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 14:55:00 -
[189] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Thank you CCP, as well as CSM who have been involved with representing the communities interests on this, for this clear and strong statement.
Lets all hope there are as few cases as possible of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world, so that all of us have more levity for content and enjoying the game, without everyone having to be suffer more restrictions necessary only due to the extraordinary detrimental actions of a few bad apples.
Well said and nice approach ccp. Now lets back to new eden.
DNSBlack
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5598
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:02:00 -
[190] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Kethry Avenger wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team So in a hypothetical situation where you are able to scam someone of all their in-game assets(which is totally fine). If after accomplishing this fact you use their greed, and sense of helplessness and the emotional value those assets have to them to harass and humiliate a player for 2 hours, including harassing other people in the room , then post this online, and link to it. That person would be permanently banned from this community and game correct? With some level of punishment including up to and including permanent bans for any accomplices. If that was the case I could continue to play this game with a clear conscience. If that was not the case and this hypothetical person was ever seen in game again. I'm not sure I could support CCP with my income, no matter how much I enjoy the game and its stories. Translation : get rid of people I don't like or lose my 15bux times however many accounts! I once told a beautiful woman I dated who I thought was spending too much time with her business partner dude something similar: It's either him or me, CHOOSE!! I hear her and her husband/business partner (and her new girlfriend who is half Brazilian/half French) are very happy now all living together....... I've learned to stfu now. Door is that way ----> That sounds messed up, and also sounds like you were right as she is now living happily with said business partner.... So bad example.
Derail
She wasn't, until I said something about it, which i confirmed...after the fact.....
/Derail
|
|
Dr Silkworth
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:02:00 -
[191] - Quote
Reprehensible:
1. deserving censure or condemnation.
So Mr Falcon since you'll answer any questions, and you have stated that " that real life harassment is morally reprehensible", and from what we can tell, you have neither censured or condemned, if the word morally can provide us with any more information than your ambiguous post?
I would like to know if your position is on harassment moral or legal grounds. I am assuming moral. Am I correct? And if so, what is your position on laws regarding harassment around the world and why are they not of any importance relative to morality.? |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1347
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:02:00 -
[192] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Hi Trebor. What are your thoughts on trivialising real human suffering, such as ****, torture, etc by comparing it to someone making a player sing on comms for their spacebux? I noticed some rather affective choice words in your post, such as "scumbag", so I just wondered what you thought about the people who sensationalise and exploit real human suffering in order to try and bolster their arguments.
:)
What are your thoughts on trivializing the terribleness of cancer by also applying the term "illness" to a common cold? |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
61
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:03:00 -
[193] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:I think the behaviour and attitude Salvos demonstrates in these threads is toxic for the community. He repeatedly expressed the personal joy he'd feel if other members of the community were physically assaulted, and has demonised as many people as he could to try and push his agenda.
It's rather gross. Yep, and it's that same guy who has the single highest post count in the thread that got locked, the thread where he tried to internet lawyer a guy into a ban for being toxic to the community. It's like I've said before, the so called good guy/freedom fighter types (Salvos, Ripard, ect ect) in EVE are the real problem, not the Erotica1s
They remind me of the politicians who froth at the mouth while screaming "won't someone please think of the children!" while pushing their own pet agendas.... which have nothing to do with protecting the children.... |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2735
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:05:00 -
[194] - Quote
404 Error Post Not Found *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4545
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:06:00 -
[195] - Quote
In America, a city will try to boost its tourist income with a campaign to advertise why people should visit it.
Las Vegas is a city where prostitution and gambling are legal, and hence when people visit, they may get involved in some adult activities of the sort that they don't want to go home and tell everybody.
So Las Vegas has a slogan that has become a bit of a meme in America:
"What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"
CCP's stance on that appears to be similar. What happens in this game should stay in the game.
And I have a hard time seeing why anybody could disagree with that. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Salvos Rhoska
845
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:07:00 -
[196] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:IYou proved that you were of lower moral character than the person you were criticizing. I can laugh and applaud at whatever I want to, for whatever reasons I want to. There is no law against laughter or clapping. I can choose who I do or do not drink with. My post was valid and coherent according to the Amnesty International definition of what constitutes torture. I have never claimed, either here on the forums, or in the comm you refer to, to be a lawyer, nor edited out any comment to that effect. You can judge my "moral character" till the world stops turning. Doesn't change one iota, that all of your claims, are false. ------------ |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3169
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:09:00 -
[197] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:No, what makes you a bad guy is encouraging real life violence, and for trivialising real human suffering.
hope this helps :) Seeing as none of it is true, it is not helpful at all :)
Salvos, don't make me link posts you've made that you can't conveniently edit. Oh, woops, too late.
What was it you said?
"If someone roundhouse kicked Erotica1, I would laugh and applaud :)"
And I'm going to link that every time you deny stating you would take pleasure from harm coming to Ero and inciting violence. I now have it bookmarked.
Stop lying, and people won't call you a liar. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2735
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:10:00 -
[198] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:IYou proved that you were of lower moral character than the person you were criticizing. I can laugh and applaud at whatever I want to, for whatever reasons I want to. There is no law against laughter or clapping. I can choose who I do or do not drink with. My post was valid and coherent according to the Amnesty International definition of what constitutes torture. I have never claimed, either here on the forums, or in the comm you refer to, to be a lawyer, nor edited out any comment to that effect. You can judge my "moral character" till the world stops turning. Doesn't change one iota, that all of your claims, are false.
You know, he kinda has a point.
I mean, I only think torture is wrong when its for a reason other than fun
Does that make me a bad person?
Um..
Well yes it does
But I dont HAVE to care lol *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2889
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:11:00 -
[199] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote: Hi Trebor. What are your thoughts on trivialising real human suffering, such as ****, torture, etc
Curious aside; Does RPing these things in game count as trivialising them?
I suppose that'd be a case by case basis judgement. I believe it would be possible to roleplay those incredibly awful subjects while also maintaining the sensitivity and gravitas of the subjects - it could even be possible to do it in a way that was commentary on the subjects or awareness raising, which is good.
I don't think it's very likely to see such such a roleplay in a game, and more often than not it'd turn into a tasteless joke. But I guess it's at least possible.
What I find really unforgiving though is bringing those things up and comparing rather trivial video-game occurrences, like ganking or scamming, in order to try and make your complaints seem more serious and weighty than they really are. Ripard Teg does it a lot - comparing ganking weak ships to ****, or this bonus room stuff to torture, etc - and I think he's not only a hack, but a despicable excuse. I hope he learns to treat these serious issues with the some sensitivity one day. |
Salvos Rhoska
845
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:13:00 -
[200] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:And I'm going to link that every time you deny stating you would take pleasure from harm coming to Ero and inciting violence. I now have it bookmarked.
Nowhere there does it say I would take pleasure from harm coming to Erotica1, nor have I incited violence anywhere.
You can imply it all you want. Doesn't change the above. ------------ |
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3169
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:14:00 -
[201] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:And I'm going to link that every time you deny stating you would take pleasure from harm coming to Ero and inciting violence. I now have it bookmarked. Nowhere there does it say I would take pleasure from harm coming to Erotica1, nor have I incited violence anywhere. You can imply it all you want. Doesn't change the above.
Laughing indicates pleasure. People don't laugh if they haven't experienced pleasure to some degree. You said you'd laugh and applaud. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2735
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:14:00 -
[202] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote: Hi Trebor. What are your thoughts on trivialising real human suffering, such as ****, torture, etc
Curious aside; Does RPing these things in game count as trivialising them? I suppose that'd be a case by case basis judgement. I believe it would be possible to roleplay those incredibly awful subjects while also maintaining the sensitivity and gravitas of the subjects - it could even be possible to do it in a way that was commentary on the subjects or awareness raising, which is good. I don't think it's very likely to see such such a roleplay in a game, and more often than not it'd turn into a tasteless joke. But I guess it's at least possible. What I find really unforgiving though is bringing those things up and comparing them to rather trivial video-game occurrences, like ganking or scamming, in order to try and make your complaints seem more serious and weighty than they really are. Ripard Teg does it a lot - comparing ganking weak ships to ****, or this bonus room stuff to torture, etc - and I think he's not only a hack, but a despicable excuse of a person. I hope he learns to treat these serious issues with the some sensitivity one day.
Hmm I guess you dont take much to do with the Blood Raiders then lol *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Higgs Foton
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:21:00 -
[203] - Quote
Onwards to 400 pages. Make it happen people. :) |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2890
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:22:00 -
[204] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:What are your thoughts on trivializing the terribleness of cancer by also applying the term "illness" to a common cold?
That's not comparable at all, "illness" is a widely used term to describe many different things, **** and torture are not - they're quite well defined, even with specific laws and such to cover what they are and are not.
I would, however, find it distasteful to say things like "you're the cancer ruining this community" to someone whose actions I didn't like, or "you look like you have cancer" to someone who looks particularly frail. Worse again if someone was using the word purely as an appeal to emotion in an inflammatory attack piece.
Ramona McCandless wrote:Hmm I guess you dont take much to do with the Blood Raiders then lol
I shoot some of them occasionally, that's about it :)
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3330
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:23:00 -
[205] - Quote
Danalee wrote:So no ganking without explaining to your target why and how to prevent it. Did I say that? I rather think not. See my comment in the same reply about semantic quibblers. Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
Sturmwolke
530
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:24:00 -
[206] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Good post, but I'd like a clarification on "disciplinary action against game accounts". Does this constitute all known accounts held by the player? or just a single account? |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
167
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:24:00 -
[207] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Needless to say there are a LOT of questions that need pretty firm answers.
guess you won't get them. If I were not playing Eve many of the questions would seem a bit unnecessary to me as in: WTF would do such a thing because of a game anyway. Alas, Eve's serios spaceship business so people indeed do have such brilliant ideas.
I would not try to get someone banned by faking a recording. I doubt this will be succesful. And I doubt that much proof will be needed that the perpetrator is the actual perpetrator should future bonus room breakdowns become public. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:24:00 -
[208] - Quote
Trebor: Thanks for adding some, judiciously worded, clarification to the excessively guarded CCP posts.
I have to say it's a shame to see you're standing for CSM 9 :( W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3171
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:24:00 -
[209] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote: The gankers I respect are the ones who will take the time, after the fact, to explain to the victim why they got blown up, and how they can defend themselves in future. I view them as performing an educational service.
So no ganking without explaining to your target why and how to prevent it. And in the rare cases where your target needs some time before he/she realizes how he/she feels about the ordeal it's harrasment. Can you, just to be as clear as possible, state which timeperiod you have in mind between the act of ganking/scamming/asking to sing songs and the discovery of the target that his/her feelings have been hurt? D.
This, exactly this. Every single gank I've performed, I've tried to explain to the player how to avoid it in future. Some of them just get emotionally out of control and don't care, they just want to rage. So where is the line? And if CCP does ban Ero, will they qualify that line to him? I'm listening to the recording myself and this is VERY analogous to a few of my own experiences of gank victims I've invited onto coms and tried to calmly explain why they lost their ship. At what point in that person's rage is it me harassing them? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
5190
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:25:00 -
[210] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out .the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. Boom.
Someone give this gentleman a medal. This post right here nails it perfectly in every regard.
Very well said. Thanks. -áGÖí-á-á-áMajor (Ret.) Caldari Naval Militia Gÿá -á Sky Fighters | Just an innocent explorer! pâä Sith1s Spectre: "Here at Sky Fighters we respect quality forum PvPers." |
|
PinkPanter
The Scope Gallente Federation
182
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:25:00 -
[211] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Good post, but I'd like a clarification on "disciplinary action against game accounts". Does this constitute all known accounts held by the player? or just a single account?
All as always. You are you just under different avatars. |
Salvos Rhoska
845
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:25:00 -
[212] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:But the question of what you're laughing and clapping at, and why, speaks directly to your moral fibre. I would be laughing at and applauding the vindication of the abused on their abuser. If you abuse people in an out of game context, and they exact retribution, from my perspective, you had it coming. My "moral fibre" on this matter is very clear cut and distinct. Does not mean I incentivise or enjoy any suffering resulting from it. ------------ |
One Eyed Runner
Caldari Naval Auxiliary Services
23
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:25:00 -
[213] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with. Holla at ya. Don't forget to tell us how many accounts so I know how many new accounts to sub to compensate.
I cancelled 6 accounts myself, so go for it
I live in Jita so f*ck off |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
168
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:28:00 -
[214] - Quote
Danalee wrote:So no ganking without explaining to your target why and how to prevent it. And in the rare cases where your target needs some time before he/she realizes how he/she feels about the ordeal it's harrasment. Can you, just to be as clear as possible, state which timeperiod you have in mind between the act of ganking/scamming/asking to sing songs and the discovery of the target that his/her feelings have been hurt? D.
The information you seek is presented in this thread in quite an understandable form actually. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2483
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:28:00 -
[215] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support. Yes a CCP cave in to the power block Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing.
Never ever? Seems the failed lawyer's slap on the wrist was made public. CCP simply wants this issue to quietly die, and by pumping out double-speak, and then shutting up about it, who knows what they did or did not do.
If erotica1 or his cohorts show up again, soon, we will know that CCP considers sociopaths an important part of their subscription base.
If that char does not show up again, well, all we know is could be he lying low, or could be simply using new chars to do the same thing as before, or they actually did banhammer him. But without comment from CCP, nothing can be certain, and the kind of behaviour exhibited by the psycho will continue in Eve. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
250
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:29:00 -
[216] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote: Hi Trebor. What are your thoughts on trivialising real human suffering, such as ****, torture, etc
Curious aside; Does RPing these things in game count as trivialising them? I suppose that'd be a case by case basis judgement. I believe it would be possible to roleplay those incredibly awful subjects while also maintaining the sensitivity and gravitas of the subjects - it could even be possible to do it in a way that was commentary on the subjects or awareness raising, which is good.
Wandering off-track here, but some years ago I did quite a lot of LARPing (yeah, laugh it up), and there was a very strict rule that expressly forbid roleplaying those subjects, since although two participants, engaging in a scripted RP could probably handle the subject with sensitivity and gravitas, there was potential for it to go very wrong if someone came upon the "event" without being a scripted participant, and it was safer for all concerned that such subjects were handled abstractly (in fact, my character was involved in an "interrogation", but it was not fully RP'ed, after we successfully captured the target and removed him to a remote location, a GM adjudicated the result after an out-of-game discussion between the participants).
|
Seamus Donohue
EVE University Ivy League
44
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:30:00 -
[217] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Hi Falcon!
I have a question for you. I brought this one up specifically in the megathread, so here we go:
Will CCP be applying it's EULA with regards to off-EVE systems. Example: Teamspeak, blogs, Skype, things of that nature.
I'm asking not so much due to the current case, but out of concern that nefarious people may decide to pretend to be someone they wish banned, off of CCP system.
Again, example. Person who hates LAF registers the blog "I_Am_LAF.com". Proceeds to write awful things, violate EULA, and other assorted bad things. Joins random voice comms under my name and spews RL harassment. Would I need to worry about that when it comes to my own account? Thanks in advance! Hi, Lady Areola Fappington The EULA has always affected external content to a degree, when that content is shared using our systems. For example when you post a link that contains inappropriate content, even though that content is hosted somewhere outside EVE Online, there's always been potential for disciplinary action. We haven't changed any policies but we do reserve the right, as we always have, to revoke access to our services if they are being used to facilitate something, or share something, that violates our terms of service. Translation:
If you do something morally reprehensible outside of the EVE Online context and are dumb enough to link to it here with one of your EVE Online accounts, then Crowd Control Productions has every right to smack you upside the head with an autocannon.
My own personal speculation (so take with a VERY large grain of salt):
If someone is impersonating you outside the EVE Online context and doing morally reprehensible stuff, you're not likely to link to it here and claim that it was you. Thus, you wouldn't get smacked upside the head with an autocannon. Survivor of Teskanen. -áFan of John Rourke.
I have video tutorials for EVE Online on my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/SeamusDonohueEVE |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3171
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:30:00 -
[218] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:H aVo K wrote:But the question of what you're laughing and clapping at, and why, speaks directly to your moral fibre. I would be laughing at and applauding the vindication of the abused on their abuser. If you abuse people in an out of game context, and they exact retribution, from my perspective, you had it coming. My "moral fibre" on this matter is very clear cut and distinct. Does not mean I incentivise or enjoy any suffering resulting from it.
Why is violence acceptable and entertaining retribution to you? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
|
CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
4679
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:31:00 -
[219] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Good post, but I'd like a clarification on "disciplinary action against game accounts". Does this constitute all known accounts held by the player? or just a single account?
There's no single rule for that, it's always a case by case decision based on internal guidelines and precedents. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
502
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:31:00 -
[220] - Quote
Twice If in doubt...do...excessively. |
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3171
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:32:00 -
[221] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support. Yes a CCP cave in to the power block Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing. Never ever? Seems the failed lawyer's slap on the wrist was made public. CCP simply wants this issue to quietly die, and by pumping out double-speak, and then shutting up about it, who knows what they did or did not do. If erotica1 or his cohorts show up again, soon, we will know that CCP considers sociopaths an important part of their subscription base. If that char does not show up again, well, all we know is could be he lying low, or could be simply using new chars to do the same thing as before, or they actually did banhammer him. But without comment from CCP, nothing can be certain, and the kind of behaviour exhibited by the psycho will continue in Eve.
I already ceded to a correction from someone with more than twice your mental capacity, and determined the reason why. The same reason doesn't apply here, and your reasoning doesn't apply anywhere. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1541
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:33:00 -
[222] - Quote
Man, I remember way back when, people would volunteer to sing to get out of a gank. "No ISK sing instead" was said in many local. Me, I demanded "Barbie Girl", that was my go-to for karaoke to save your ship.
Now it's all with the cyberbully and the torture and the bonus rooms and the doublesuperharassment....
Someone bring me mah walker and a glass of iced tea, I'm goin to the farmer's market. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
771
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:34:00 -
[223] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Danalee wrote:So no ganking without explaining to your target why and how to prevent it. Did I say that? I rather think not. See my comment in the same reply about semantic quibblers. No, you did say that. Exactly.
In a thread on CCP's stance on REAL LIFE HARRASMENT.
Trebor Daehdoow wrote: But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you.
So, you heavily implied that in the case we are all talking about there was psychological pressure until a player was a total wreck (even tough xaid player has since claimed the exact opposite!). Than you went on and said that whoever was applying said pressure (by means of asking to sing songs and read texts) was a real-life scumbag.
Continuing on to extrapolate your point of view to ganking, where you said:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:The gankers I respect are the ones who will take the time, after the fact, to explain to the victim why they got blown up, and how they can defend themselves in future. I view them as performing an educational service. Also, it should be noted that when you gank someone, you don't know in advance what their reaction will be, and you have the opportunity to react if they take it much harder than you expected. I guess one way to put it is that in EVE, it's perfectly OK to stab someone in the back, but one should exercise judgment before twisting the knife. So, you think gankers are real-life scumbags, except when they explain to the victim why they got blown up, and how they can defend themselves in future.
So, again: Can you, just to be as clear as possible, state which timeperiod you have in mind between the act of ganking/scamming/asking to sing songs and the discovery of the target that his/her feelings have been hurt?
I don't understand why you sidestep my question, especially since;
Trebor Daehdoow wrote: My thoughts are that people who quibble about semantics in order to sidestep the actual issue rarely have good arguments for their positions. It's just another variant of "play the man, not the ball"
People in your position should be a lot more carefull in calling other players real-life scumbags for things they clearly don't understand... I feel.
D.
|
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2892
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:34:00 -
[224] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Hi Trebor. What are your thoughts on trivialising real human suffering, such as ****, torture, etc by comparing it to someone making a player sing on comms for their spacebux? I noticed some rather affective choice words in your post, such as "scumbag", so I just wondered what you thought about the people who sensationalise and exploit real human suffering in order to try and bolster their arguments.
:) My thoughts are that people who quibble about semantics in order to sidestep the actual issue rarely have good arguments for their positions. It's just another variant of "play the man, not the ball"
I'm not trying to sidestep the issues at all - the problem is, it's very very difficult to have a constructive, meaningful conversation about the issue if people are making those kind of emotive false equivocations. It degrades the discussion into a tense, combative mess with high running emotions. I find it rather ironic that the people who want most to have these discussions often themselves make the discussions impossible to have by the way they conduct themselves.
Wouldn't you agree that it harms the conversation and is in and of itself a rather distasteful way to approach an issue?
There's a reason why the posts tagged CCP don't refer to people as "scumbags", or mention **** or torture, after all ;) |
Mr R4nd0m
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
163
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:37:00 -
[225] - Quote
what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. |
ChickenPox
0x1
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:37:00 -
[226] - Quote
Oh please. This game has a reputation for much worse. Months or years of work can go up in smoke in a single night because of one person. We've all heard the stories about this game. That's one of this game's major selling points. For the people whose time/money is lost, it's real life. THIS GAME ALWAYS CROSSES OVER INTO REAL LIFE...to some degree, we all accept that. And this isn't even the worst behavior our players can or have produced. You guys are up in arms over this because you were able to put a human voice to the harshness of the game. It seems you're all perfectly happy to ignore "harassment" when it's text based, but as soon as you hear the emotion in a fool's voice, your heart strings are all a-tug, and you melt like butter. And the best part is: Sohkar was extremely offensive, bigoted, and threatened physical violence, while the Bonus Room guys were extremely calm and professional.
So I guess the question is, is this virtual or real life harassment. I don't think Team Speak suddenly makes this real life. It was virtual, and as such, it is perfectly acceptable....and funny. |
Faenir Antollare
University of Caille Gallente Federation
221
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:37:00 -
[227] - Quote
Sometimes.. if only for the Freedom's we desire, if nothing else, one needs a strong guiding hand, reassuring to see that CCP is not neglecting their responsibility to the community as a whole.
Les |
Celes Tialn
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:41:00 -
[228] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior.
I have no idea how you ended up playing a game that advertises itself as a betrayal simulator.
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110636
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:41:00 -
[229] - Quote
ChickenPox wrote:
So I guess the question is, is this virtual or real life harassment. I don't think Team Speak suddenly makes this real life. It was virtual, and as such, it is perfectly acceptable....and funny.
Sorry dude, but everything is the REAL WORLD..............including the virtual world. By your reasoning, telephone conversations are not face-to-face and are therefore not of the "real world", and "don't count".
Nonsense.
Electronics and technology do not have the ability to suddenly just divorce everything from "reality".
If it were not "real", there would not have been a 300 page rage thread about all this crap. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2737
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:41:00 -
[230] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote: Hi Trebor. What are your thoughts on trivialising real human suffering, such as ****, torture, etc
Curious aside; Does RPing these things in game count as trivialising them? I suppose that'd be a case by case basis judgement. I believe it would be possible to roleplay those incredibly awful subjects while also maintaining the sensitivity and gravitas of the subjects - it could even be possible to do it in a way that was commentary on the subjects or awareness raising, which is good. Wandering off-track here, but some years ago I did quite a lot of LARPing (yeah, laugh it up), and there was a very strict rule that expressly forbid roleplaying those subjects, since although two participants, engaging in a scripted RP could probably handle the subject with sensitivity and gravitas, there was potential for it to go very wrong if someone came upon the "event" without being a scripted participant, and it was safer for all concerned that such subjects were handled abstractly (in fact, my character was involved in an "interrogation", but it was not fully RP'ed, after we successfully captured the target and removed him to a remote location, a GM adjudicated the result after an out-of-game discussion between the participants).
Cool just so we know where the in-game line is too.
I wouldn't find it acceptible without gravitas either (assuming you mean "being serious" about it), however neither is it particularly plausable to frame onself as a member of certain organisations in New Eden without udertaking at least lipservice to these activities. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
|
Salvos Rhoska
845
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:43:00 -
[231] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Yet you spent a large portion of your time throwing around words like "torture" and crying out for some form of retribution... any form of retribution... and trying your damnedest to twist logic around in order to support those cries. My use of the term "torture" was informed by the provided Amnesty International definition. I did not at any point cry out for "any form of retribution". Pointing out that I think what was happening constituted abuse at the least, does not equal that. If you wish to argue the contents of the post in which I elaborated on that, we can do so. I feel and think that it was consistent, coherent and fit the definition. ------------ |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5606
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:43:00 -
[232] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior.
Called it
When you started to play EVE online, did you do NO research beforehand? They just named it EVE online because EVIL Online was probably taken lol.
This is one of my pet peeves about you types of people: you come into something that's well established (and notorious), you ignore what it's well establish for then you claim you are leaving because of something that has existed well before you decided to play. The real problem was your poor decision to play EVE Online, not anything CCP did.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5521
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:43:00 -
[233] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Hi Falcon!
I have a question for you. I brought this one up specifically in the megathread, so here we go:
Will CCP be applying it's EULA with regards to off-EVE systems. Example: Teamspeak, blogs, Skype, things of that nature.
I'm asking not so much due to the current case, but out of concern that nefarious people may decide to pretend to be someone they wish banned, off of CCP system.
Again, example. Person who hates LAF registers the blog "I_Am_LAF.com". Proceeds to write awful things, violate EULA, and other assorted bad things. Joins random voice comms under my name and spews RL harassment. Would I need to worry about that when it comes to my own account? Thanks in advance! Hi, Lady Areola Fappington The EULA has always affected external content to a degree, when that content is shared using our systems. For example when you post a link that contains inappropriate content, even though that content is hosted somewhere outside EVE Online, there's always been potential for disciplinary action. We haven't changed any policies but we do reserve the right, as we always have, to revoke access to our services if they are being used to facilitate something, or share something, that violates our terms of service. Quite understandable.
What is interesting is that this means that E1 might or might not be banned, depending on if the involved party consider it harassment (and apparently he doesn't.. although CCP could consider it to be so regardless of what sohkar thinks I suppose).
It also means the author of the blog that started this whole mess going could also be banned for harassment, considering that no one's permission was asked and even the "victim" suffered because if it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:44:00 -
[234] - Quote
ChickenPox wrote:Oh please. This game has a reputation for much worse. Months or years of work can go up in smoke in a single night because of one person. We've all heard the stories about this game. That's one of this game's major selling points. For the people whose time/money is lost, it's real life. THIS GAME ALWAYS CROSSES OVER INTO REAL LIFE...to some degree, we all accept that. And this isn't even the worst behavior our players can or have produced. You guys are up in arms over this because you were able to put a human voice to the harshness of the game. It seems you're all perfectly happy to ignore "harassment" when it's text based, but as soon as you hear the emotion in a fool's voice, your heart strings are all a-tug, and you melt like butter. And the best part is: Sohkar was extremely offensive, bigoted, and threatened physical violence, while the Bonus Room guys were extremely calm and professional.
So I guess the question is, is this virtual or real life harassment. I don't think Team Speak suddenly makes this real life. It was virtual, and as such, it is perfectly acceptable....and funny. Well said, couldn't agree more. Bunch of whiners sticking up for some crazy guy who literally cries over EVE and is too stupid to give his **** away.. holy damn. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3174
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:44:00 -
[235] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Regis Solo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:All I know is, I'm not buckling up for another few hundred pages of mouth frothing qq'ing. Thank you, CCP, for stating what we already knew and 100% support. Yes a CCP cave in to the power block Call it what you want. They're not going to satisfy your craving for Ero's blood because it's against their policy to discuss the details of specific cases. They NEVER EVER EVER EVER do it and anyone that's filed a petition against anyone knows this. You don't get to know what happens, no one does. It'll probably become public knowledge soon enough IF Ero or sohkar get a ban out of this but, it won't be CCP telling you because they never will and never have. That's their policy, and no one gets special circumstances. Deal with it and move on. If you're going to quit over this policy, then do so. I assure you it will be a minority of you actually qq'ing. Never ever? Seems the failed lawyer's slap on the wrist was made public. CCP simply wants this issue to quietly die, and by pumping out double-speak, and then shutting up about it, who knows what they did or did not do. If erotica1 or his cohorts show up again, soon, we will know that CCP considers sociopaths an important part of their subscription base. If that char does not show up again, well, all we know is could be he lying low, or could be simply using new chars to do the same thing as before, or they actually did banhammer him. But without comment from CCP, nothing can be certain, and the kind of behaviour exhibited by the psycho will continue in Eve.
Somewhere, a moderator has deleted my reply to this, perhaps mistaking it for a personal attack, so I'll reword it. Someone already corrected me on this, and the reason that decision was made public. The same reason doesn't apply here, and you bias is obvious.
For the moderator who deleted my post, please be consistent. Don't tell me Dinsdale's comments above aren't a personal attack on The Mittani. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Mr R4nd0m
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
163
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:45:00 -
[236] - Quote
ChickenPox wrote:Oh please. This game has a reputation for much worse. Months or years of work can go up in smoke in a single night because of one person. We've all heard the stories about this game. That's one of this game's major selling points. For the people whose time/money is lost, it's real life. THIS GAME ALWAYS CROSSES OVER INTO REAL LIFE...to some degree, we all accept that. And this isn't even the worst behavior our players can or have produced. You guys are up in arms over this because you were able to put a human voice to the harshness of the game. It seems you're all perfectly happy to ignore "harassment" when it's text based, but as soon as you hear the emotion in a fool's voice, your heart strings are all a-tug, and you melt like butter. And the best part is: Sohkar was extremely offensive, bigoted, and threatened physical violence, while the Bonus Room guys were extremely calm and professional.
So I guess the question is, is this virtual or real life harassment. I don't think Team Speak suddenly makes this real life. It was virtual, and as such, it is perfectly acceptable....and funny.
this is exactly why i dont feel like being associated with this game and sad losers like yourself |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5606
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:45:00 -
[237] - Quote
Celes Tialn wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. I have no idea how you ended up playing a game that advertises itself as a betrayal simulator.
The same way they all do, by ignoring reality in favor of their fantasies.
|
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
102
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:45:00 -
[238] - Quote
I don't think this has to be discussed much more now that CCP has clarified their position on the issue which should be all of our viewpoint on this issue.
In short feel free to advertise ISK scams, organise and do small or large scale suicide ganks, be devious and try to destroy or AWOX corporations from the inside out, ransom, extort, and bump other peoples ships to the far end of asteroid belts etc.
But DON'T use in-game or out of game based voice software to harass and humiliate other players after you have achieved one of the above types of devious gameplay that we know and love (or hate.) . Be thankful and happy that your scam or whatever was successful and you are richer or have achieved your objective.
If they send you 'QQ' by EVE mail or type 'QQ' in chat channels then feel free to quote it accurately in your bio if that is your thing. But don't take it any further than that. |
Korhaka Mirunas
Unkindness Incorporated Unkind Initiative
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:45:00 -
[239] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior.
If you find EVE Online to be too hardcore for your tastes, I would like to suggest you try something like hello kitty online. If scamming was banned, that would also bring about banning of suicide ganking, piracy and similar activities, or even completely disabling PvP. We need T3 Shuttles!!-áhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiR5Q72kT1U |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5612
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:47:00 -
[240] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:ChickenPox wrote:Oh please. This game has a reputation for much worse. Months or years of work can go up in smoke in a single night because of one person. We've all heard the stories about this game. That's one of this game's major selling points. For the people whose time/money is lost, it's real life. THIS GAME ALWAYS CROSSES OVER INTO REAL LIFE...to some degree, we all accept that. And this isn't even the worst behavior our players can or have produced. You guys are up in arms over this because you were able to put a human voice to the harshness of the game. It seems you're all perfectly happy to ignore "harassment" when it's text based, but as soon as you hear the emotion in a fool's voice, your heart strings are all a-tug, and you melt like butter. And the best part is: Sohkar was extremely offensive, bigoted, and threatened physical violence, while the Bonus Room guys were extremely calm and professional.
So I guess the question is, is this virtual or real life harassment. I don't think Team Speak suddenly makes this real life. It was virtual, and as such, it is perfectly acceptable....and funny. this is exactly why i dont feel like being associated with this game and sad losers like yourself
So wait (my new catch phrase there).
You complain about scamming in EVE, something that EVE has been known for since 2003, yet some how the guy who gets how the game is is somehow the sad loser.
I think you got it backwards bro... |
|
Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
280
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:47:00 -
[241] - Quote
I fail to see how this "clarification" clears up anything. Looks like the status quo continues. |
Mr R4nd0m
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
163
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:47:00 -
[242] - Quote
Korhaka Mirunas wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. If you find EVE Online to be too hardcore for your tastes, I would like to suggest you try something like hello kitty online. If scamming was banned, that would also bring about banning of suicide ganking, piracy and similar activities, or even completely disabling PvP.
you know what F*UCK YOU
|
Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:48:00 -
[243] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:ChickenPox wrote:Oh please. This game has a reputation for much worse. Months or years of work can go up in smoke in a single night because of one person. We've all heard the stories about this game. That's one of this game's major selling points. For the people whose time/money is lost, it's real life. THIS GAME ALWAYS CROSSES OVER INTO REAL LIFE...to some degree, we all accept that. And this isn't even the worst behavior our players can or have produced. You guys are up in arms over this because you were able to put a human voice to the harshness of the game. It seems you're all perfectly happy to ignore "harassment" when it's text based, but as soon as you hear the emotion in a fool's voice, your heart strings are all a-tug, and you melt like butter. And the best part is: Sohkar was extremely offensive, bigoted, and threatened physical violence, while the Bonus Room guys were extremely calm and professional.
So I guess the question is, is this virtual or real life harassment. I don't think Team Speak suddenly makes this real life. It was virtual, and as such, it is perfectly acceptable....and funny. this is exactly why i dont feel like being associated with this game and sad losers like yourself Close the door on the way out |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2893
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:49:00 -
[244] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote: Hi Trebor. What are your thoughts on trivialising real human suffering, such as ****, torture, etc
Curious aside; Does RPing these things in game count as trivialising them? I suppose that'd be a case by case basis judgement. I believe it would be possible to roleplay those incredibly awful subjects while also maintaining the sensitivity and gravitas of the subjects - it could even be possible to do it in a way that was commentary on the subjects or awareness raising, which is good. Wandering off-track here, but some years ago I did quite a lot of LARPing (yeah, laugh it up), and there was a very strict rule that expressly forbid roleplaying those subjects, since although two participants, engaging in a scripted RP could probably handle the subject with sensitivity and gravitas, there was potential for it to go very wrong if someone came upon the "event" without being a scripted participant, and it was safer for all concerned that such subjects were handled abstractly (in fact, my character was involved in an "interrogation", but it was not fully RP'ed, after we successfully captured the target and removed him to a remote location, a GM adjudicated the result after an out-of-game discussion between the participants). Cool just so we know where the in-game line is too. I wouldn't find it acceptible without gravitas either (assuming you mean "being serious" about it), however neither is it particularly plausable to frame onself as a member of certain organisations in New Eden without udertaking at least lipservice to these activities.
Indeed, there's slavery and murder and all sorts of things in the lore of the game. All in all, I don't think roleplaying as a character that has been involved in those kinds of things - on either side - is inherently too worrisome, if it's part of a narrative and handled responsibly, it's fine. If it's done for a cheap laugh, or to deliberately evoke an emotional response out of someone else, or something like that, then I think it's pretty awful
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5612
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:49:00 -
[245] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:Korhaka Mirunas wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. If you find EVE Online to be too hardcore for your tastes, I would like to suggest you try something like hello kitty online. If scamming was banned, that would also bring about banning of suicide ganking, piracy and similar activities, or even completely disabling PvP. you know what &*(#$
Hey CCP, this guy is having a melt down, Is it alright if we laugh at this one or is that against the EULA? |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2737
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:50:00 -
[246] - Quote
Korhaka Mirunas wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. If you find EVE Online to be too hardcore for your tastes, I would like to suggest you try something like hello kitty online. If scamming was banned, that would also bring about banning of suicide ganking, piracy and similar activities, or even completely disabling PvP.
Out of curiousity, has any space game ONLY concentrated on allowing you to mine and manufacture and nothing else?
In the X series, you could be anything, and were encouraged to choose empires to be friendly with
I suppose you could avoid combat and any NPCs but... well I guess I didnt see that as being fun but others might. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
168
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:51:00 -
[247] - Quote
Danalee wrote:
People in your position should be a lot more carefull in calling other players real-life scumbags for things they clearly don't understand... I feel.
D.
Ah yeah the righteous indignation of Kristalll, who I think to remember, admitted to running a channel called Kristallnacht... |
Korhaka Mirunas
Unkindness Incorporated Unkind Initiative
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:52:00 -
[248] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:Korhaka Mirunas wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. If you find EVE Online to be too hardcore for your tastes, I would like to suggest you try something like hello kitty online. If scamming was banned, that would also bring about banning of suicide ganking, piracy and similar activities, or even completely disabling PvP. you know what F*UCK YOU
How mature of you... Makes me wonder how you would feel if someone was to run a locator agent to find and gank your mining ship. We need T3 Shuttles!!-áhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiR5Q72kT1U |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2737
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:53:00 -
[249] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Indeed, there's slavery and murder and all sorts of things in the lore of the game. All in all, I don't think roleplaying as a character that has been involved in those kinds of things - on either side - is inherently too worrisome, if it's part of a narrative and handled responsibly, it's fine. If it's done for a cheap laugh, or to deliberately evoke an emotional response out of someone else, or something like that, then I think it's pretty awful
I wouldnt really see the advantage to be had in doing it for a cheap laugh
In fact if someone was usin the lore of the Blood Raider Covenant in that way, I would consider it my Holy Duty to make them suffer for it, but that could be treading a fine line too.
And New Order? A player organisation, with set goals and structure (Even if "borrowed" from a few previous groups), and reasonably rich RP tradition, hated by some, liked and understood by others. I would consider them the same way. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Salvos Rhoska
845
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:53:00 -
[250] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:I fail to see how this "clarification" clears up anything. Looks like the status quo continues. My reading and understanding of events and the statement, would indicate that what Erotica1 was doing has constituted some incident which atleast give cause to question that they might be "extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world." Else this statement would not have been necessary in the first place.
But retro-active action has many problems associated with it. I wont and cant speculate on what action CCP has taken aside from the statement, nor frankly, do I really even want to know. Its none of my business. Its between CCP and whatever parties are involved (or not).
Now the statement has been made, any future actions by players that constitute ""extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world." has been reinforced as something that CCP will act upon.
Whether some aspects or incidents of the Bonus Room constitute that, remains unclear. But I, for one, wouldn't attempt to test the seriousness of this statement by doing anything that even remotely could be construed to fulfill what it delineates against. ------------ |
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3175
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:54:00 -
[251] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:Korhaka Mirunas wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. If you find EVE Online to be too hardcore for your tastes, I would like to suggest you try something like hello kitty online. If scamming was banned, that would also bring about banning of suicide ganking, piracy and similar activities, or even completely disabling PvP. you know what F*UCK YOU
Well. That escalated quickly. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Mr R4nd0m
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
163
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:54:00 -
[252] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:Korhaka Mirunas wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. If you find EVE Online to be too hardcore for your tastes, I would like to suggest you try something like hello kitty online. If scamming was banned, that would also bring about banning of suicide ganking, piracy and similar activities, or even completely disabling PvP. you know what &*(#$ Hey CCP, this guy is having a melt down, Is it alright if we laugh at this one or is that against the EULA?
Why did you change your post? look at all the worms that are now coming out? its patheric and sad. As soon as CCP make an announcement, you retards start coming out defending what people have done. Sad really really sad. Youre lowlife scum.
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3179
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:56:00 -
[253] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Why did you change your post? look at all the worms that are now coming out? its patheric and sad. As soon as CCP make an announcement, you retards start coming out defending what people have done. Sad really really sad. Youre lowlife scum.
CCP made their announcement. It's the thread you're commenting on right now. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
ChickenPox
0x1
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:56:00 -
[254] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:this is exactly why i dont feel like being associated with this game and sad losers like yourself You're rage quitting because you don't like hearing violent racists get angry about losing their space bucks, and I am perfectly okay with that? |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
65
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:56:00 -
[255] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote: Why did you change your post?
You'll likely find out. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5616
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:57:00 -
[256] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:Korhaka Mirunas wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. If you find EVE Online to be too hardcore for your tastes, I would like to suggest you try something like hello kitty online. If scamming was banned, that would also bring about banning of suicide ganking, piracy and similar activities, or even completely disabling PvP. you know what &*(#$ Hey CCP, this guy is having a melt down, Is it alright if we laugh at this one or is that against the EULA? Why did you change your post? look at all the worms that are now coming out? its patheric and sad. As soon as CCP make an announcement, you retards start coming out defending what people have done. Sad really really sad. Youre lowlife scum. ]
No, im Highlife scum, I leveled up
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
771
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:58:00 -
[257] - Quote
embrel wrote:Danalee wrote:
People in your position should be a lot more carefull in calling other players real-life scumbags for things they clearly don't understand... I feel.
D.
Ah yeah the righteous indignation of Kristalll, who I think to remember, admitted to running a channel called Kristallnacht...
Don't speak in riddles man/woman! What do you mean? Do take care, I'm allmost feeling harassed.
D.
Edit: the united states holocaust museum would like to have a word with you by the way |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2737
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 15:58:00 -
[258] - Quote
Mr R4nd0m wrote:
Why did you change your post? look at all the worms that are now coming out? its patheric and sad. As soon as CCP make an announcement, you retards start coming out defending what people have done. Sad really really sad. Youre lowlife scum.
I know Im putting my hand in a blender here but why are you letting people get to you?
You know that by rising to it you are only making yourself angrier?
To all : C'mon guys, let this one go *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
5191
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:05:00 -
[259] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:I fail to see how this "clarification" clears up anything. Looks like the status quo continues. I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to vent their own personal feelings on the matter for us. But they're not going to break their own rules. The exact "clarification" people want would involve them discussing the case at hand and/or answering 3000 hypothetical questions.
Personally I don't believe this has or will result in any bans. I think if it did then the announcement would have a tone more like a reminder to the community about standards, rather than an attempt to clarify their own position. But who knows.
I think that's beside the point though overall. If anything it's obvious this whole issue raised quite a high level of community concern. CCP have at least taken that concern seriously and looked at it. I'd bet they'll be a little more vigilant with this type of issue in the future as a result so regardless of bans it should still send a strong signal to the community that people need to be careful with this stuff as there are indeed lines that can be crossed, despite their blurriness, and that if they are crossed they will take action.
I feel a post I quoted earlier really identified perfectly the point in which we should consider things becoming "harassment". Now whether or not CCP mirrors the same interpretation as that guy? Well who knows.
-áGÖí-á-á-áMajor (Ret.) Caldari Naval Militia Gÿá -á Sky Fighters | Just an innocent explorer! pâä Sith1s Spectre: "Here at Sky Fighters we respect quality forum PvPers." |
Bayonnefrog
Hedion University Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:06:00 -
[260] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:PinkPanter wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with. Holla at ya. Don't forget to tell us how many accounts so I know how many new accounts to sub to compensate. Go cry more noob lol. And **** yeah I'll give my stuff away :) To all the nice people I know of course So wait. You post telling ccp you are quitting the game (thus costing them money, which is a lie of course, you won't quit)) because they didn't do what you wanted them to and somehow that turns into 'me' crying. I know you Ero haters were out there, but damn lol. No, I'm selling my toons to convert them to ISK, giving ISK to my friends so they can continue doing what they like and I quit. It's actually that simple. Sometimes in life you disagree with things and you can either choke it up or move. Nothing extraordinary here. My point is sometimes you need to make a statement or set a rule that will be clear to all and in best interest of the whole community. CCP goes vague again and that's where my road parts. I don't have that MANY accounts but it's something and while I'm sure it won't make a difference to them it will to me. I stood to my principle and honestly whatever you do in life that's how you should go through it. I'm here for quite a while now but I know this is just a game and never really looked at it in any other way. One of many out there. :) Good luck to all and wish you all the best. :)
That is your prerogative of course but I would hope you reconsider. I think if we want to make the game better we remain in it and do our best to influence it that way even if we disagree with a decision/position CCP might take. |
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
2946
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:07:00 -
[261] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So to be completely clear, how do you know if someone is harassing someone else? If I were to say "That guy right there took me onto a TS3 server and harassed me for hours on end", do CCP ban them?
The reason companies don't generally take a stance on things that happen outside of the game is because they are impossible to prove. In this specific instance, it's been recorded by the guy doing it, but in absence of that there's no way to prove it, so is the rule "any reports of harassment will be met with a ban" or "if you don't record it you can tell people to go kill themselves"?
Also, in what media does this take place? If I'm on a completely different forum or a blog and I personally attack someone else, am I now going to get a nice ban from CCP? How do you decide where the line of jurisdiction ends, or do you not worry about lines (maybe you're the DDOJSIOC, 10 points for naming the reference without google)? How do you ensure that a person listed in an attack is actually that person? If I were to go off and record my mate pretending to harass me then claim it was done by someone in game, how would you prove otherwise?
Needless to say there are a LOT of questions that need pretty firm answers. Just speculating, but it seems like they won't police what people do outside of the game. But if something blows up in an undeniable crapstorm, they might take action.
Excerpted quotes [emphasis added by me]: -"verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action" -"CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment"
It looks like unverified or non-publicized harassment isn't covered. Neither is ordinary, non-extraordinary harassment. |
Snot Shot
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
700
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:08:00 -
[262] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. Thanks T o/
I listened to some of the Twitch stream recording the E1 put out to explain why he does the bonus room and he genuinely explains how he was really just trying to help the community and the new players by showing them how you can be exploited in EVE....
Thanks for the effort E1, when you teach your kids how to swim do you tie weights to their ankles and hold a life ring just out of reach as they come up for their last breath?...
Fly sa.......oh.... . Twitter = @Snot_Shot-á --áGÇ£If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" |
Tyrant Scorn
140
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:08:00 -
[263] - Quote
Dear CCP Falcon,
How do you deal with harassment outside the game media, for example on TeamSpeak or Mumble ?
I have had multiple instances where people would insult me to a point where they would insult my family, threaten to kill my dog, come to my house and do something to me or beat me up at fanfest. I even had a guy tell me I should get cancer and die.
How do I deal with that ? CCP has no authority outside of the ingame media, however the out of game comms are an extension and are directly related to the game.
I am an adult and I have pretty thick skin and yet, I am man enough to admit that something inside me broke when certain people made those insults. I felt really hurt and it touched a sensitive side of me and instead of getting angry I could do nothing other then feel really bad about it.
So, how do you deal with things like that ? Can I come to CCP and ask for action taken against these individuals ? Do I have to supply a recording ? Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Bayonnefrog
Hedion University Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:08:00 -
[264] - Quote
Korhaka Mirunas wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. I would like to suggest you try something like hello kitty online.
I am unfamiliar with this game. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2737
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:13:00 -
[265] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote:Thanks for the effort E1, when you teach your kids how to swim do you tie weights to their ankles and hold a life ring just out of reach as they come up for their last breath?... .
Why not? You want weak kids?
If they drown they obviously dont want the air enough to work out that if they UNTIE THE WEIGHTS they will live
Honestly, its like no one knows how to play this game *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2740
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:19:00 -
[266] - Quote
Bayonnefrog wrote:Korhaka Mirunas wrote:Mr R4nd0m wrote:what an utterly terrible response. Guess its time to GTFO.
There is no way this will ever stop unless scamming is banned, people will just hide it better. Dont think I can associate myself with a company or community that endorses this type of behavior. I would like to suggest you try something like hello kitty online. I am unfamiliar with this game.
"The game tells the story of a hero (the player) helping Hello Kitty and her friends wake up from eternal slumber and defeat a "mysterious and malevolent power"" (known as BleeZard). *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2817
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:19:00 -
[267] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:Dear CCP Falcon,
How do you deal with harassment outside the game media, for example on TeamSpeak or Mumble ?
I have had multiple instances where people would insult me to a point where they would insult my family, threaten to kill my dog, come to my house and do something to me or beat me up at fanfest. I even had a guy tell me I should get cancer and die.
How do I deal with that ? CCP has no authority outside of the ingame media, however the out of game comms are an extension and are directly related to the game.
I am an adult and I have pretty thick skin and yet, I am man enough to admit that something inside me broke when certain people made those insults. I felt really hurt and it touched a sensitive side of me and instead of getting angry I could do nothing other then feel really bad about it.
So, how do you deal with things like that ? Can I come to CCP and ask for action taken against these individuals ? Do I have to supply a recording ? HTFU. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Capt Starfox
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
671
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:20:00 -
[268] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote: Why not? You want weak kids?
If they drown they obviously dont want the air enough to work out that if they UNTIE THE WEIGHTS they will live
Honestly, its like no one knows how to play this game
A lot of people across several, if not all video games, would rather have the work done for them; the 'buff' or that 'nerf'. Instead of figuring out ways to get through the problem themselves, most gamers will simply complain until it's fixed, or changed to their liking; even if the issue is something that can be worked out by the player, or a group of players. Why put forth effort when you don't have to and get the same results?
Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~PsychoticMonkCSM9~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
2740
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:22:00 -
[269] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote: Why not? You want weak kids?
If they drown they obviously dont want the air enough to work out that if they UNTIE THE WEIGHTS they will live
Honestly, its like no one knows how to play this game
A lot of people across several, if not all video games, would rather have the work done for them; the 'buff' or that 'nerf'. Instead of figuring out ways to get through the problem themselves, most gamers will simply complain until it's fixed, or changed to their liking; even if the issue is something that can be worked out by the player, or a group of players. Why put forth effort when you don't have to and get the same results?
iknorite
The thing I love most about EvE isnt the total freedom, or the fact that every moment can be stark staring terror if you want it to be, but the fact that theres pretty much nothing thats impossible if you put your mind to it
Finding creative solutions is this game's greatest gift to gaming *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
MajorBean
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:23:00 -
[270] - Quote
CCP protect me there are bad people. ;(
|
|
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2895
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:24:00 -
[271] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Dear CCP Falcon,
How do you deal with harassment outside the game media, for example on TeamSpeak or Mumble ?
I have had multiple instances where people would insult me to a point where they would insult my family, threaten to kill my dog, come to my house and do something to me or beat me up at fanfest. I even had a guy tell me I should get cancer and die.
How do I deal with that ? CCP has no authority outside of the ingame media, however the out of game comms are an extension and are directly related to the game.
I am an adult and I have pretty thick skin and yet, I am man enough to admit that something inside me broke when certain people made those insults. I felt really hurt and it touched a sensitive side of me and instead of getting angry I could do nothing other then feel really bad about it.
So, how do you deal with things like that ? Can I come to CCP and ask for action taken against these individuals ? Do I have to supply a recording ? HTFU.
I don't see you telling Sokhar to "HTFU"? Why the hypocrisy, friend lucas? |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1740
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:28:00 -
[272] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:Dear CCP Falcon,
How do you deal with harassment outside the game media, for example on TeamSpeak or Mumble ?
I have had multiple instances where people would insult me to a point where they would insult my family, threaten to kill my dog, come to my house and do something to me or beat me up at fanfest. I even had a guy tell me I should get cancer and die.
How do I deal with that ? CCP has no authority outside of the ingame media, however the out of game comms are an extension and are directly related to the game.
I am an adult and I have pretty thick skin and yet, I am man enough to admit that something inside me broke when certain people made those insults. I felt really hurt and it touched a sensitive side of me and instead of getting angry I could do nothing other then feel really bad about it.
So, how do you deal with things like that ? Can I come to CCP and ask for action taken against these individuals ? Do I have to supply a recording ?
Call the KGB imo. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
636
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:29:00 -
[273] - Quote
Best read of nothing in a while. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4547
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:29:00 -
[274] - Quote
DNSBLACK wrote:Zappity wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. I support this position. Also well written
That IS well-written. The wording alone tells me I should stick to comic books.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4548
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:31:00 -
[275] - Quote
I see the groveling sycophants are all here. Where is the psychotic? Did I miss his post, somehow?
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:32:00 -
[276] - Quote
For those wanting an IN DEPTH look at the Bonus Room (I try to keep bias at a minimum, feel free to call me out) you can right here:
http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room |
fudface
ACME-INC
26
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:33:00 -
[277] - Quote
Agata Matahari wrote:Cedric deBouilard wrote:so... did Erotica 1 got banned or not?
I couldn't get anything from out of CCP corporate-speech that's the riddle in the dark.
if ero posts then we have our answer. |
Tasha Saisima
State War Academy Caldari State
83
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:34:00 -
[278] - Quote
Lulz at ccps response/non response |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
322
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:35:00 -
[279] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I see the groveling sycophants are all here. Where is the psychotic? Did I miss his post, somehow? Mr Epeen
I think he is out ot the sandbox. |
Salvos Rhoska
846
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:38:00 -
[280] - Quote
Thanks for the disclosure.
Full pants-on-head ********. As I thought. ------------ |
|
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
334
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:39:00 -
[281] - Quote
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:You talking about the "MANY" Erotica alts and fan boys?.... yeah of course. But whatever, no need to waste my time here any more.
Many alts? I know he has a few accounts, and I personally know of 5 of his characters across three accounts (four characters which can be easily found with online research). Yet I have never seen Ero use alts to accomplish his goals. He admitted to using one to advertise his isk doubling, but the vast majority of the time he pulls other players as references. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:42:00 -
[282] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Thanks for the disclosure. Full pants-on-head ********. As I thought.
What exactly do you mean?
|
embrel
BamBam Inc.
168
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:43:00 -
[283] - Quote
Danalee wrote:embrel wrote:Danalee wrote:
People in your position should be a lot more carefull in calling other players real-life scumbags for things they clearly don't understand... I feel.
D.
Ah yeah the righteous indignation of Kristalll, who I think to remember, admitted to running a channel called Kristallnacht... Don't speak in riddles man/woman! What do you mean? Do take care, I'm allmost feeling harassed. D. Edit: the united states holocaust museum would like to have a word with you by the way
I mean post 6105 in the epic thread. Apologies should I have misinterpreted that or the reasons why one would choose such a name. |
Xonus Calimar
CaeIum Incognitum
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:44:00 -
[284] - Quote
Kinda sad I didn't finish reading the threadnought before posts started vanishing. Looking forward to finishing what is there though.
Glad to know that there are edges to the sandbox. Also glad that it takes a really long time to reach them. Everyone needs space to work their own content into the game, but there is a limit. |
Bumsicle Wedgie
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:45:00 -
[285] - Quote
Hey look, I'm making a serious comment!
Whilst the recording and the distress it displays is upsetting to a degree, at the same time I don't want to live in a virtual nanny state. I get enough of that IRL thanks, and I play this game to escape that.
I don't want anyone to have an IRL sad, short of punching the desk following my having dissected their hauler. I don't want anyone to turn off the PC at the end of the night and go to bed thinking about how stupid they've been either, short of learning from their mistakes and laughing at their ineptitude.
If EVE, or any other game, makes you angry, depressed or rageful, then it's time to stop and get help. You have issues. Simple as that. Switch it off and address the cause.
Eve is real? I'm afraid not, and if you think it is, you're putting far, far too much into it... and I'm betting there are areas of your life you should seriously look at closely, because I'm almost certain you're neglecting something, or someone.
I love you all, but I love your isk more x |
Salvos Rhoska
846
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:47:00 -
[286] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Thanks for the disclosure. Full pants-on-head ********. As I thought. What exactly do you mean?
I mean the entire scam is full pants-on-head ********. ------------ |
|
CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
4683
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:47:00 -
[287] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:Dear CCP Falcon,
How do you deal with harassment outside the game media, for example on TeamSpeak or Mumble ?
I have had multiple instances where people would insult me to a point where they would insult my family, threaten to kill my dog, come to my house and do something to me or beat me up at fanfest. I even had a guy tell me I should get cancer and die.
How do I deal with that ? CCP has no authority outside of the ingame media, however the out of game comms are an extension and are directly related to the game.
I am an adult and I have pretty thick skin and yet, I am man enough to admit that something inside me broke when certain people made those insults. I felt really hurt and it touched a sensitive side of me and instead of getting angry I could do nothing other then feel really bad about it.
So, how do you deal with things like that ? Can I come to CCP and ask for action taken against these individuals ? Do I have to supply a recording ?
In almost all instances similar to what you describe, we would advise you to contact local authorities if you feel threatened or if you feel that laws have been broken. It's not common that events taking place outside the game or our websites result in disciplinary action from us due to obvious reasons, but we do reserve the right to restrict access to your services when we find them to be used for violating the EULA. Players are of course always welcome to contact us and ask for advice or assistance. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2820
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:48:00 -
[288] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Dear CCP Falcon,
How do you deal with harassment outside the game media, for example on TeamSpeak or Mumble ?
I have had multiple instances where people would insult me to a point where they would insult my family, threaten to kill my dog, come to my house and do something to me or beat me up at fanfest. I even had a guy tell me I should get cancer and die.
How do I deal with that ? CCP has no authority outside of the ingame media, however the out of game comms are an extension and are directly related to the game.
I am an adult and I have pretty thick skin and yet, I am man enough to admit that something inside me broke when certain people made those insults. I felt really hurt and it touched a sensitive side of me and instead of getting angry I could do nothing other then feel really bad about it.
So, how do you deal with things like that ? Can I come to CCP and ask for action taken against these individuals ? Do I have to supply a recording ? HTFU. I don't see you telling Sokhar to "HTFU"? Why the hypocrisy, friend lucas? Well Sokhar should, and as far as I can see, has. And the point is not that Tyrant specifically should HTFU, it's more of a point that CCPs very own response to peoples upsets used to be HTFU.
Different people have different levels of tolerance, which lead them to cry at various levels. If you could convince me to cover myself in mayo, and do a video of me singing Britney Spears songs in a high pitched voice while you threw every insult in the sun at me, I'd still not come back crying about how I was a victim. Conversely, some people fly off the handle when you blow up a cruiser describing at length how you've ruined their life and should be burned at the stake for crimes so horrid. If CCP are to respond it needs to be with clearly defined boundaries. They can't tell some people to HTFU while protecting others with arbitrarily drawn distinctions.
Personally I think they should stand by their previous convictions and tell people to HTFU. If people can't figure out it's a game and want to put themselves into these positions, then that's their problem. Nobody I've seen has been threatened or forced into coopearting, they've all done it through choice, so they are not victims, they are morons, plain and simple. At any point they could have walked away but their own greed blinded their judgement. In this particular situation, the user chose to stay connected to a comms where people were insulting him and could easily have hit that little button marked "disconnect". So yes, I stand by my HTFU. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:48:00 -
[289] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kristalll wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Thanks for the disclosure. Full pants-on-head ********. As I thought. What exactly do you mean? I mean the entire scam is full pants-on-head ********.
I didn't realize "genius" is filtered for some people. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16948
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:48:00 -
[290] - Quote
I would like to think there is a chance, that all this witch hunting melodrama will stop now.
I highly doubt it, looking at some of the posts from out great and wonderful Moralists. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. Kimmi's Thinking Cosy. |
|
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
750
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:50:00 -
[291] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. Trebor, is freedom of speech inviolate or are you one of those that believes in 'hate speech'?
You see, for many of us we see freedoms like free speech and sandbox as absolute. Free speech laws were created to protect impolite speech, not polite speech. You cannot hamper freedom of speech with pansied 'hate speech' laws or equivocations that neuter it, without the cost of infringing on the base freedom itself.
Selfsame, who the frack are you to say how Erotica1 should play his game? I say his game, because the bonus round was very much IN GAME.
At it's core Sohkar willingly took part in a bonus round on Teamspeak (and hung in there) in the context of EvE meta gameplay, in pursuit of moar EvE assets (or their recovery). That is IN GAME Trebor.
He was not negotiating for frequent flyer miles, or losing his blob because he couldn't solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, he lost his blob while metagaming for EvE ISK/assets! In game.
Now remember, you said 'douchebaggery in-game 'OK', and 'douchebaggery out-of-game NOT OK', but I insist Sohkar's bonus round was very much in game.
tldr; Let's cut to the chase, you don't *like* what Erotica1 did and like all liberal pansies before you who selfsame invented 'hate speech' laws to infringe on freedom of speech laws when your feelings got hurt, you would see the EvE sandbox continue to crumble over time with little nerfs here and there...
Well I reject that, I reject you, so will shoot another innocent carebear in the face (in game of course) in your honor. That is MY EvE. +1 added to the Kill-It-Forward queue, and may GOD have mercy on your soul.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2820
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:52:00 -
[292] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:You talking about the "MANY" Erotica alts and fan boys?.... yeah of course. But whatever, no need to waste my time here any more. Many alts? I know he has a few accounts, and I personally know of 5 of his characters across three accounts (four characters which can be easily found with online research). Yet I have never seen Ero use alts to accomplish his goals. He admitted to using one to advertise his isk doubling, but the vast majority of the time he pulls other players as references. Apparently we aren't allowed our own opinions so if we don't wants Erotica to be permabanned and die in a pit, then we must obviously be alts.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16948
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:53:00 -
[293] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:You talking about the "MANY" Erotica alts and fan boys?.... yeah of course. But whatever, no need to waste my time here any more. Many alts? I know he has a few accounts, and I personally know of 5 of his characters across three accounts (four characters which can be easily found with online research). Yet I have never seen Ero use alts to accomplish his goals. He admitted to using one to advertise his isk doubling, but the vast majority of the time he pulls other players as references. Apparently we aren't allowed our own opinions so if we don't wants Erotica to be permabanned and die in a pit, then we must obviously be alts. Confirming both Lucas and I, are alts of Ero. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. Kimmi's Thinking Cosy. |
Kirsi Kirjasto
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
53
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:53:00 -
[294] - Quote
So, anonymous conversations on Teamspeak are now considered 'real life?'
Is CCP now in the business of insuring that EVE players do not 'have an unpleasant experience' outside of EVE?
'Outside of EVE' does not equal 'real life'. Many seem confused by this.
Because 'an anonymous unpleasant experience' is all it was for the bonus room participant. At no point are the participant's true identities or whereabouts made public.
Yet CCP jumps to the "victim's" rescue anyway. Because having an unpleasant experience in Eve (or TS) might cause a few people to quit the game....
Welcome to the kindler, gentler, more sustainable and peanut-allergen-free EVE. Now, with 100% less 'cyberbullying'.
"Cyberbullying" - what idiocy. Would have hoped the people running EVE would be smart enough not to buy into rank nonsense pushed in trendy journals by aggrieved social scientists. |
SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
367
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:57:00 -
[295] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote: In almost all instances similar to what you describe, we would advise you to contact local authorities if you feel threatened or if you feel that laws have been broken. It's not common that events taking place outside the game or our websites result in disciplinary action from us due to obvious reasons, but we do reserve the right to restrict access to your services when we find them to be used for violating the EULA. Players are of course always welcome to contact us and ask for advice or assistance.
Read it again. I disagree |
Salvos Rhoska
846
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:57:00 -
[296] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:I didn't realize "genius" is filtered for some people. I absolutely acknowledge that it is genius that Erotica1 has managed to convince people to not only voluntarily surrender all their assets, but full API. That is an amazing achievement, and I applaud it.
But the Bonus Room? Its like its designed by 30yr old virgins at their annual treehouse meeting. Its just.... ********. ------------ |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3049
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:57:00 -
[297] - Quote
Kinda mad I'm not enjoying my ban like everyone told me I would... Oh god. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16952
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:59:00 -
[298] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Its like its designed by 30yr old virgins at their annual treehouse meeting. Its just.... ********. You must have much knowledge in this regard. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. Kimmi's Thinking Cosy. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 16:59:00 -
[299] - Quote
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:So, anonymous conversations on Teamspeak are now considered 'real life?'
Is CCP now in the business of insuring that EVE players do not 'have an unpleasant experience' outside of EVE?
'Outside of EVE' does not equal 'real life'. Many seem confused by this.
Because 'an anonymous unpleasant experience' is all it was for the bonus room participant. At no point are the participant's true identities or whereabouts made public.
Yet CCP jumps to the "victim's" rescue anyway. Because having an unpleasant experience in Eve (or TS) might cause a few people to quit the game....
Welcome to the kindler, gentler, more sustainable and peanut-allergen-free EVE. Now, with 100% less 'cyberbullying'.
"Cyberbullying" - what idiocy. Would have hoped the people running EVE would be smart enough not to buy into rank nonsense pushed in trendy journals by aggrieved social scientists.
Technically CCP hasn't gone to the "victims" defense as that would assume the Bonus Room is harassment.
BTW: Full Disclosure article: http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
46
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:00:00 -
[300] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Dear CCP Falcon,
How do you deal with harassment outside the game media, for example on TeamSpeak or Mumble ?
I have had multiple instances where people would insult me to a point where they would insult my family, threaten to kill my dog, come to my house and do something to me or beat me up at fanfest. I even had a guy tell me I should get cancer and die.
How do I deal with that ? CCP has no authority outside of the ingame media, however the out of game comms are an extension and are directly related to the game.
I am an adult and I have pretty thick skin and yet, I am man enough to admit that something inside me broke when certain people made those insults. I felt really hurt and it touched a sensitive side of me and instead of getting angry I could do nothing other then feel really bad about it.
So, how do you deal with things like that ? Can I come to CCP and ask for action taken against these individuals ? Do I have to supply a recording ? HTFU. I don't see you telling Sokhar to "HTFU"? Why the hypocrisy, friend lucas? Well Sokhar should, and as far as I can see, has. And the point is not that Tyrant specifically should HTFU, it's more of a point that CCPs very own response to peoples upsets used to be HTFU. Different people have different levels of tolerance, which lead them to cry at various levels. If you could convince me to cover myself in mayo, and do a video of me singing Britney Spears songs in a high pitched voice while you threw every insult in the sun at me, I'd still not come back crying about how I was a victim. Conversely, some people fly off the handle when you blow up a cruiser describing at length how you've ruined their life and should be burned at the stake for crimes so horrid. If CCP are to respond it needs to be with clearly defined boundaries. They can't tell some people to HTFU while protecting others with arbitrarily drawn distinctions. Personally I think they should stand by their previous convictions and tell people to HTFU. If people can't figure out it's a game and want to put themselves into these positions, then that's their problem. Nobody I've seen has been threatened or forced into coopearting, they've all done it through choice, so they are not victims, they are morons, plain and simple. At any point they could have walked away but their own greed blinded their judgement. In this particular situation, the user chose to stay connected to a comms where people were insulting him and could easily have hit that little button marked "disconnect". So yes, I stand by my HTFU.
This the last time I'll say this. Whatever medium people use there responsible for what they broadcast. What your saying equates to anyone has the right to outside or on Facebook insult people for hours on end or hound every post they make without repercussion ad the victims can walk away or block them. I dare you to try that |
|
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio
207
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:01:00 -
[301] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
Thanks for the response.
Senex Legio |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
775
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:01:00 -
[302] - Quote
You wanted clarity, here's CCP Guard to the rescue!
CCP Guard wrote: In almost all instances similar to what you describe, we would advise you to contact local authorities if you feel threatened or if you feel that laws have been broken. It's not common that events taking place outside the game or our websites result in disciplinary action from us due to obvious reasons, but we do reserve the right to restrict access to your services when we find them to be used for violating the EULA. Players are of course always welcome to contact us and ask for advice or assistance.
/all threads ever.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen and Erotica 1 for CSM!
D.
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3186
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:01:00 -
[303] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. Trebor, is freedom of speech inviolate or are you one of those that believes in 'hate speech'? You see, for many of us we see freedoms like free speech and sandbox as absolute. Free speech laws were created to protect impolite speech, not polite speech. You cannot hamper freedom of speech with pansied 'hate speech' laws or equivocations that neuter it, without the cost of infringing on the base freedom itself. Selfsame, who the frack are you to say how Erotica1 should play his game? I say his game, because the bonus round was very much IN GAME. At it's core Sohkar willingly took part in a bonus round on Teamspeak (and hung in there) in the context of EvE meta gameplay, in pursuit of moar EvE assets (or their recovery). That is IN GAME Trebor.He was not negotiating for frequent flyer miles, or losing his blob because he couldn't solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, he lost his blob while metagaming for EvE ISK/assets! In game. Now remember, you said 'douchebaggery in-game 'OK', and 'douchebaggery out-of-game NOT OK', but I insist Sohkar's bonus round was very much in game. tldr; Let's cut to the chase, you don't *like* what Erotica1 did and like all liberal pansies before you who selfsame invented 'hate speech' laws to infringe on freedom of speech laws when your feelings got hurt, you would see the EvE sandbox continue to crumble over time with little nerfs here and there... Well I reject that, I reject you, so will shoot another innocent carebear in the face (in game of course) in your honor. That is MY EvE. +1 added to the Kill-It-Forward queue, and may GOD have mercy on your soul. F
You forever inspire me, sir. Consider me at your service should your quest to kill it forward ever require the aid.
Screw it, I'm just gonna start doing this myself as well. Love the style. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3049
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:01:00 -
[304] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kristalll wrote:I didn't realize "genius" is filtered for some people. I absolutely acknowledge that it is genius that Erotica1 has managed to convince people to not only voluntarily surrender all their assets, but full API. That is an amazing achievement, and I applaud it. But the Bonus Room? Its like its designed by 30yr old virgins at their annual treehouse meeting. Its just.... ********. Why are you so mean?
Oh god. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:01:00 -
[305] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kristalll wrote:I didn't realize "genius" is filtered for some people. I absolutely acknowledge that it is genius that Erotica1 has managed to convince people to not only voluntarily surrender all their assets, but full API. That is an amazing achievement, and I applaud it. But the Bonus Room? Its like its designed by 30yr old virgins at their annual treehouse meeting. Its just.... ********.
Could you explain the specific parts that make it....******** I think is the word you're using?
Just about every bit of it has a goal.
Full Disclosure explanation of the Bonus Room: http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room |
Salvos Rhoska
846
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:02:00 -
[306] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Its like its designed by 30yr old virgins at their annual treehouse meeting. Its just.... ********. You must have much knowledge in this regard.
Yeah, I've known some wizards in my time. The Bonus Room design is pretty much exactly the kind of thing decades of sexual frustration as a man-child results in ------------ |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
506
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:03:00 -
[307] - Quote
http://imgur.com/XeyywyC
Someone seems to be taking Eve way too serious. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16952
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:04:00 -
[308] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Mag's wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Its like its designed by 30yr old virgins at their annual treehouse meeting. Its just.... ********. You must have much knowledge in this regard. Yeah, I've known some wizards in my time. The Bonus Room design is pretty much exactly the kind of thing decades of sexual frustration as a man-child results in Have you sought help? Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. Kimmi's Thinking Cosy. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3049
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:04:00 -
[309] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Mag's wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Its like its designed by 30yr old virgins at their annual treehouse meeting. Its just.... ********. You must have much knowledge in this regard. Yeah, I've known some wizards in my time. The Bonus Room design is pretty much exactly the kind of thing decades of sexual frustration as a man-child results in So immature...
Oh god. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2113
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:04:00 -
[310] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:My eroticals hurt
No problem as CCP may well have permanently removed them for you. This is not a signature. |
|
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3049
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:05:00 -
[311] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:http://imgur.com/XeyywyC
Someone seems to be taking Eve way too serious. What a lovely sentiment. Thanks Ero.
Oh god. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3186
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:05:00 -
[312] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Mag's wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Its like its designed by 30yr old virgins at their annual treehouse meeting. Its just.... ********. You must have much knowledge in this regard. Yeah, I've known some wizards in my time. The Bonus Room design is pretty much exactly the kind of thing decades of sexual frustration as a man-child results in
The assumption that virginity = sexual frustration. You've never heard of asexuality, have you. A person's sexual activity has nothing to do with the ideas they have and it's really just a swipe to try to make other people feel as bad as you do. It's prescriptive retaliation, nothing more. You've failed at every turn, and every assertion you've made here, Salvos. And now you're trying to make people feel bad for being virgins. Do you have any self respect? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Anslo
Scope Works
4608
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:06:00 -
[313] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. Trebor, is freedom of speech inviolate or are you one of those that believes in 'hate speech'? You see, for many of us we see freedoms like free speech and sandbox as absolute. Free speech laws were created to protect impolite speech, not polite speech. You cannot hamper freedom of speech with pansied 'hate speech' laws or equivocations that neuter it, without the cost of infringing on the base freedom itself. Selfsame, who the frack are you to say how Erotica1 should play his game? I say his game, because the bonus round was very much IN GAME. At it's core Sohkar willingly took part in a bonus round on Teamspeak (and hung in there) in the context of EvE meta gameplay, in pursuit of moar EvE assets (or their recovery). That is IN GAME Trebor.He was not negotiating for frequent flyer miles, or losing his blob because he couldn't solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, he lost his blob while metagaming for EvE ISK/assets! In game. Now remember, you said 'douchebaggery in-game 'OK', and 'douchebaggery out-of-game NOT OK', but I insist Sohkar's bonus round was very much in game. tldr; Let's cut to the chase, you don't *like* what Erotica1 did and like all liberal pansies before you who selfsame invented 'hate speech' laws to infringe on freedom of speech laws when your feelings got hurt, you would see the EvE sandbox continue to crumble over time with little nerfs here and there... Well I reject that, I reject you, so will shoot another innocent carebear in the face (in game of course) in your honor. That is MY EvE. +1 added to the Kill-It-Forward queue, and may GOD have mercy on your soul. F Not enough edge brah. Try harder.
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3189
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:08:00 -
[314] - Quote
Anslo wrote: Not enough edge brah. Try harder.
What's an 'edge brah'? Is it one of those new hipster trends? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Salvos Rhoska
846
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:08:00 -
[315] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Do you have any self respect? I have plenty. Thanks!
Are you a wizard? You seem to be taking this very personally.
I think the Bonus Room design is pants-on-head ********. I think its designers are obviously an elite and select group of 30lvl wizards.
Thats my opinion. If you don't like it, too bad! ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2823
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:08:00 -
[316] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. So if this were to be followed, how would CCP enforce such a ruling? We're not just talking about sand being kicked out of the sandbox, we are also talking about sand that is already out of the sandbox. So if I send CCP an audio log of me being harassed and claimed it was another player, how would that be proven or disproved? If I were to send one in now, and state that you had met me on a comms channel and had hurled abuse at me and provided an audio recording of a voice claiming to be you harassing me, how would they deal with it?
It's easy to have such a clear cut response to such a strong and clearly defined case, but how would you deal with situations where there perpetrator isn't claiming responsibility openly?
And where does it end? What is the limit? People have different levels of tolerance and different methods of response. If you are bumping a freighter and the pilot claims to be distressed and loses emotional control, should you stop? If you are trashing someone on TS and they don;t sound particularly like they are upset, should you assume they are fine when they could be devastated?
Plus, what media does it cover, and how far from the game can we go? If I'm on twitter having a jab at another EVE player, do I have to watch myself? If I'm on a blog and I insult someone am I going to be punished for that? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Biomecca
The New Eden School of trade xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:09:00 -
[317] - Quote
I thought the sohkar recording was the most entertaining thing I've heard in years of gaming. Wouldn't mind seeing more of that. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16954
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:09:00 -
[318] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Anslo wrote: Not enough edge brah. Try harder.
What's an 'edge brah'? Is it one of those new hipster trends? It goes around your property and stops your hedges from over growing. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. Kimmi's Thinking Cosy. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
777
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:09:00 -
[319] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:My eroticals hurt No problem as CCP may well have permanently removed them for you.
Haha;
CCP Guard wrote: In almost all instances similar to what you describe, we would advise you to contact local authorities if you feel threatened or if you feel that laws have been broken. It's not common that events taking place outside the game or our websites result in disciplinary action from us due to obvious reasons, but we do reserve the right to restrict access to your services when we find them to be used for violating the EULA. Players are of course always welcome to contact us and ask for advice or assistance.
With that ladies and gentle people, CCP Guard hammers the final nail in the shoddy coffin of the pitchfork wielding haters. You can all continue immitating a lawyer, CCP dev, CSM that has his head screwed on the right way or member of the United Nations or whatever but I have only one thing to say to you, listen carefully:
NEENER. NEENER. NEENER. HTFU.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen and Erotica 1 for CSM!
http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room
D.
|
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
322
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:11:00 -
[320] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:http://imgur.com/XeyywyC
Someone seems to be taking Eve way too serious.
|
|
Kirsi Kirjasto
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:11:00 -
[321] - Quote
The real problem is that CCP is concerning itself with someone merely "getting upset."
Because that is all that happens to bonus room participants. They loose their stuff and then they are pushed to 'get upset'.
'Sensitive' San-Francisco-type people like Ripard and CCP Falcon clearly don't like that, obvious from the codewords and language they use.
But really it shouldn't be something that CCP should even remotely consider a ban over.
As far as the threadnaught goes - easy to allow a forum 'shitstorm'. Just another foodfight between carebears and gankers allowed, in this case, to run wild by the DEVs, in spite of forum rules.
Carebears (and some 'real PVPers') don't like gankers because it is non-consensual and the victims often get mad. Which is why these usual suspects especially do not like Erotica 1 - because he is clearly pushing people to 'get upset'.
Upset people might quit EVE, so its seems CCP is stepping in on their behalf.
Pretty sad theme park mentality, another nail in the coffin of a truly Darwinian EVE. |
Anslo
Scope Works
4608
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:12:00 -
[322] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Anslo wrote: Not enough edge brah. Try harder.
What's an 'edge brah'? Is it one of those new hipster trends? Come back to Bleak Lands and i'll tell you. Haven't seen you since you ran from system as soon as I showed up in local.
|
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
1025
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:13:00 -
[323] - Quote
Easiest way to prevent real life harassment: Don't be a corp thief, don't AWOX.
Not saying you shouldn't do those ever, but if they know any of your info someone might get ideas. (i've heard people joke around about sending this guy that stole stuff from one of my old corps hatemail/weird stuff in the mail, or possibly flame him on facebook) |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4550
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:15:00 -
[324] - Quote
Ever notice how slow a thread moves when all leave but few mewling hangers-on that turn it into a circle jerk?
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16956
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:16:00 -
[325] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Ever notice how slow a thread moves when all leave but few mewling hangers-on that turn it into a circle jerk? Mr Epeen Yea, but as you are still here........ Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. Kimmi's Thinking Cosy. |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
323
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:16:00 -
[326] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Ever notice how slow a thread moves when all leave but few mewling hangers-on that turn it into a circle jerk? Mr Epeen
Most of them must have been trolls and alts of Ero |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:16:00 -
[327] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Do you have any self respect? I have plenty. Thanks! Are you a wizard? You seem to be taking this very personally. I think the Bonus Room design is pants-on-head ********. I think its designers are obviously an elite and select group of 30lvl wizards. Thats my opinion. If you don't like it, too bad!
Level 40 Rogue actually.
Is there a part of the Bonus Room you would change to improve it? |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
168
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:16:00 -
[328] - Quote
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote: Pretty sad theme park mentality, another nail in the coffin of a truly Darwinian EVE.
as long as there are clones, I fail to see how Eve can be truly Darwinian. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
246
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:18:00 -
[329] - Quote
Cedric deBouilard wrote:so... did Erotica 1 got banned or not?
I couldn't get anything from out of CCP corporate-speech
Just add him to your watch list and see if he stops logging in. |
Salvos Rhoska
846
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:19:00 -
[330] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Is there a part of the Bonus Room you would change to improve it? Hire me as a consultant and I'll plug all the loopholes, add some style and ensure there is never again any cause for concern about possible CCP intervention. ------------ |
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
812
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:19:00 -
[331] - Quote
Thanks CCP and I hope you never do take the sand box out of the game. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:20:00 -
[332] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kristalll wrote:Is there a part of the Bonus Room you would change to improve it? Hire me as a consultant and I'll plug all the loopholes, add some style and ensure there is never again any cause for concern about possible CCP intervention.
I'd need an example of your good work first. Possibly a resume.
FULL DISCLOSURE ON THE BONUS ROOM http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3051
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:20:00 -
[333] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Ever notice how slow a thread moves when all leave but few mewling hangers-on that turn it into a circle jerk? Mr Epeen No that's what it looks like when several dozens of people are forced to swallow their pride simultaneously. Some hang around to save face (and act like winning wasn't their agenda anyway), others just slink away quietly and hope everyone else forgets they ever said anything.
Oh god. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3190
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:21:00 -
[334] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Do you have any self respect? I have plenty. Thanks! Are you a wizard? You seem to be taking this very personally. I think the Bonus Room design is pants-on-head ********. I think its designers are obviously an elite and select group of 30lvl wizards. Thats my opinion. If you don't like it, too bad!
It's not what I think of your opinion that matters. It's that your 'opinion' is delivered with such vitriol. It's obviously intended as an attempt to cause butthurt. What makes you think someone being a 'wizard' (whatever the hell that means) would be cause to feel butthurt? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Salvos Rhoska
846
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:21:00 -
[335] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:I'd need an example of your good work first. Possibly a resume. I'd think my fine work in the threadnaught provides ample proof of my capacity to deliver on my promises. ------------ |
Kirsi Kirjasto
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
57
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:23:00 -
[336] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Thanks CCP and I hope you never do take the sand box out of the game.
I'm waiting for Erotica 1 to post before I assume this. |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
66
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:23:00 -
[337] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Easiest way to prevent real life harassment: Don't be a corp thief, don't AWOX.
Not saying you shouldn't do those ever, but if they know any of your info someone might get ideas. (i've heard people joke around about sending this guy that stole stuff from one of my old corps hatemail/weird stuff in the mail, or possibly flame him on facebook)
http://themittani.com/features/did-cfc-just-win-eve
"why did he post that?" you may ask... Simple: If such a thing really does come to pass, corp theft and awoxing is likely going to be EVE's best hope of bringing that group down. Just like it did with BoB.
The fact that a weapon can be used against you isn't a good reason for advocating its removal from the game; You may wish you had it available to use on someone else someday. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3051
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:23:00 -
[338] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Cedric deBouilard wrote:so... did Erotica 1 got banned or not?
I couldn't get anything from out of CCP corporate-speech Just add him to your watch list and see if he stops logging in.
Well one of the previous posts suggests he can't log in so I guess his account is suspended pending investigation (probably due to thousands of petitions from overreacting time-wasters). I doubt he'll be away too long.
Oh god. |
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
35
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:24:00 -
[339] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
Gf all, but ccp, i seem to be missing a statment on abuse.. Besides that, thanx. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3190
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:26:00 -
[340] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Anslo wrote: Not enough edge brah. Try harder.
What's an 'edge brah'? Is it one of those new hipster trends? Come back to Bleak Lands and i'll tell you. Haven't seen you since you ran from system as soon as I showed up in local.
Ran from? I was only there chasing a Stabber that was trying to get away because he failed to kite me, gave the pilot a 'good fight' in local after finishing him off in my Worm, and then you raged at me. Didn't even know you were there til you spoke up and told me to get lost after I was nothing but polite to you. I had no reason to stick around after killing the Stabber, and I didn't expect you'd be able to put up enough of a fight to stick around for one so, I didn't. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
|
Lachra
Union of Labor
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:26:00 -
[341] - Quote
This action sends out a clear message, as does the outcry and the volume of commentary on the subject from the EVE community. CCP has responded promptly and succinctly to the subject, and although they cannot specifically comment on individual actions, this should not be taken as inactivity on the matter. My thanks to CCP for their recognition of the issue, and to the individuals brave enough to raise this issue to mass awareness - you have all made New Eden a less trashy place. |
fudface
ACME-INC
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:26:00 -
[342] - Quote
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Thanks CCP and I hope you never do take the sand box out of the game. I'm waiting for Erotica 1 to post before I assume this.
from what i saw of that imgur link that was posted he cant log in.
+1 CCP
looks like there is a limit to what you can get away with. |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
205
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:27:00 -
[343] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: I have yet to see Erotica1 tell us he'd have a good laugh and someone being assaulted.
He is a sadistic sociopath, of course he would. "If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2338
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:27:00 -
[344] - Quote
Thank you CCP. I'm glad that you have established this policy, though I am curious how far they will enforce it. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals
3190
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:28:00 -
[345] - Quote
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: I have yet to see Erotica1 tell us he'd have a good laugh and someone being assaulted. He is a sadistic sociopath, of course he would.
That's an assumption based on an presumed but not demonstrable premise. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
510
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:28:00 -
[346] - Quote
Jagoff Haverford wrote:And at the moment, I don't have the foggiest notion what that decision may be. I knew that I probably wouldn't agree with all of CCP's decisions on this matter, but I never imagined that I would be simply unable to determine what those decisions were. It's just spin. It's what I would have written if my boss asked me to make some sort of announcement without saying anything definitive or tangible. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:29:00 -
[347] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with.
Can I have your stuff? |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:30:00 -
[348] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Do you have any self respect? I have plenty. Thanks! Are you a wizard? You seem to be taking this very personally. I think the Bonus Room design is pants-on-head ********. I think its designers are obviously an elite and select group of 30lvl wizards. Thats my opinion. If you don't like it, too bad! It's not what I think of your opinion that matters. It's that your 'opinion' is delivered with such vitriol. It's obviously intended as an attempt to cause butthurt. What makes you think someone being a 'wizard' (whatever the hell that means) would be cause to feel butthurt?
Wait, do you mean he is deliberately harassing you in an attempt to get a reaction? Do you feel he is mentally pressuring you and insulting your feelings?
I think that might be Torture bro (as defined by amnesty internation, of course) |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
510
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:30:00 -
[349] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Hi, Lady Areola Fappington
The EULA has always affected external content to a degree, when that content is shared using our systems. For example when you post a link that contains inappropriate content, even though that content is hosted somewhere outside EVE Online, there's always been potential for disciplinary action. We haven't changed any policies but we do reserve the right, as we always have, to revoke access to our services if they are being used to facilitate something, or share something, that violates our terms of service. This short paragraph says more than the OP did.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2824
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:32:00 -
[350] - Quote
Well at least it's clear now. If anyone does anything you don't like in game, post a ticket with tears, tell them you are feeling upset and demand the other party be instantly banned. If they aren't going to draw lines, and are going to arbitrarily ban people, then we shouldn't assume line ans should report any time something happens in game that we dislike, right? We don't want to assume that it was all find and then later realise it was harassment all along. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2824
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:33:00 -
[351] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Do you have any self respect? I have plenty. Thanks! Are you a wizard? You seem to be taking this very personally. I think the Bonus Room design is pants-on-head ********. I think its designers are obviously an elite and select group of 30lvl wizards. Thats my opinion. If you don't like it, too bad! It's not what I think of your opinion that matters. It's that your 'opinion' is delivered with such vitriol. It's obviously intended as an attempt to cause butthurt. What makes you think someone being a 'wizard' (whatever the hell that means) would be cause to feel butthurt? Wait, do you mean he is deliberately harassing you in an attempt to get a reaction? Do you feel he is mentally pressuring you and insulting your feelings? I think that might be Torture bro (as defined by amnesty internation, of course) Agreed, report him for harassment. Even if you don't think this is harassment, we do so you should report it. That's how it works right?
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3051
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:33:00 -
[352] - Quote
fudface wrote:Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Thanks CCP and I hope you never do take the sand box out of the game. I'm waiting for Erotica 1 to post before I assume this. from what i saw of that imgur link that was posted he cant log in. +1 CCP looks like there is a limit to what you can get away with.
Accounts are always suspended when they're under investigation so gg Ripar Teg for using your position to prevent another player from being able to play eve. I think there's something in the EULA about that too.
Oh god. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
368
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:33:00 -
[353] - Quote
Just a thought ....
Are there any plans to issue the OP as a press release to the gaming media?
I'm thinking it might alleviate some of the fears many potential customers have expressed in comments, on various gaming news sites, in relation to the latest cyberbullying event. |
Talia Prime
Imperial Militia
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:35:00 -
[354] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote: So why reply. makes you feel special for calling people out as "attention seekers" lol? Or you want to get a lot of "likes" for being awesome? Also attention seeking is a interesting term. My life is pretty ******* awesome and I'm here to play a game. Don't like things so I move on. So explain that term to me again cause I'm genuinely confused what are you referring to. I simply said I will do that if we are left dark again so just confirming my word for CCP to acknowledge it.
Hold on, you're claiming you're selling your character and quitting because of the lack of action by CCP over this matter. Yet your character was up for sale before the main thread in GD and even before Jester made his blog post........ |
Anslo
Scope Works
4609
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:35:00 -
[355] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: I didn't think you would put up enough of a fight to stick around for one so, I didn't. MUH SIDES
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4549
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:35:00 -
[356] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Sturmwolke wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Good post, but I'd like a clarification on "disciplinary action against game accounts". Does this constitute all known accounts held by the player? or just a single account? There's no single rule for that, it's always a case by case decision based on internal guidelines and precedents.
Ok you see something right there that I must point out.
The people who would have the most trouble with "case by case" would be my fellow Americans. You see the non-education system is full of people who set out to destroy the jury system. The original jury system in America had the "power" to "judge both the case and the law". This meant that the jury has (or had, before everybody was convinced otherwise) the ability to say that in a specific case the law may or may not apply or that the actions of a defendant or belligerence of a plaintiff are justified or not.
This is gone now. America is all about "min max" to ensure a system of control. Hence our prisons are filled with people incarcerated for years over victimless crimes because of "mandatory sentencing" and that judges give juries "rules" to follow. If an educated juror informs the judge that these rules hold no weight, the juror gets kicked out at least or charged for contempt at worst. (and I've been thrown out of juries for bringing this up - it's the BEST way to avoid jury duty: by sticking up for the jury system in our corrupt courts)
So, anything that's considered "case by case" in American culture causes people to go into seething rages because the first thing they think of is the "all white jury" concept, which they were indoctrinated into living in fear of in school. They were never told that in these past cases of "all white juries" it was in fact a deconstruction of the original intent of the jury system, NOT a problem they need to be brainlessly twitter hashtaging about.
For that matter, a jury of one's peers was denied but in the railing against this implanted fear, a jury of one's peers is exactly what ends up being denied to many defendants.
(the same trendy sort falling into this trap would use the word "irony" at this point).
But the bottom line is that the best justice is in fact resting on the judgment of a specific case and the rules involved PER THE CASE. We have had decades of "because of this ruling then, therefore the ruling has to be that now or else everybody is a racist/bigot/homophobe if they don't agree" and now our prisons are overcrowded (and full of the very people that these ideals claim to protect. ).
So to see that CCP goes on a case by case basis is a good thing, which as owners of this content they also have every right to do no matter how many agendized players rail against it on the forums.
Hopefully my fellow Americans can embrace this concept as it was in the foundation of our jury system long ago.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5523
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:35:00 -
[357] - Quote
Well from the well thought out statements made by CCP, "personally" I believe the following example gives a pretty good idea of where the line is drawn.
Not allowed: Using EVE to relentlessly harass a character in game for the sake of harassment, beyond all normal standards justifiable in game action. in other words, blow him up repeatedly during a war dec as opposed to singling out 1 guy and following him where ever he goes for an extended period of time to kill him for no justifiable in game reason.
Acquiring and using real life information to contact or harass the person in real life, or to make real life threats against them while in game. This would include contacting them on the phone, mail, or in person... or circulating their contact information.
In both of these cases you cannot get away from the person doing the harassment.
Allowed: All the normal in game scamming, drawing the line at extorting real life currency from a victim.
Giving people a hard time in chat or verbally where their anonymity is still preserved, including inviting a person to your own TS server for the purposes of giving them a hard time.
In both of these examples the person is participating voluntarily, and can disengage from the situation at any time. Of course, they might have lost some ISK (or pride) before they make that decision.
I could easily be off base, but that's my sense of it. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:36:00 -
[358] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Well at least it's clear now. If anyone does anything you don't like in game, post a ticket with tears, tell them you are feeling upset and demand the other party be instantly banned. If they aren't going to draw lines, and are going to arbitrarily ban people, then we shouldn't assume line ans should report any time something happens in game that we dislike, right? We don't want to assume that it was all find and then later realise it was harassment all along.
This very may well devolve into a new FLOOD of petitions linking all kinds of things. FC's freak out in comms and a spy will send it to CCP and say "Shadoo was berating this young FC in comms in front of everyone! The young FC had to just take it or risk being kicked out of the corp!"
At least in THAT case Shadoo did something mean. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3053
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:36:00 -
[359] - Quote
Talia Prime wrote:PinkPanter wrote: So why reply. makes you feel special for calling people out as "attention seekers" lol? Or you want to get a lot of "likes" for being awesome? Also attention seeking is a interesting term. My life is pretty ******* awesome and I'm here to play a game. Don't like things so I move on. So explain that term to me again cause I'm genuinely confused what are you referring to. I simply said I will do that if we are left dark again so just confirming my word for CCP to acknowledge it.
Hold on, you're claiming you're selling your character and quitting because of the lack of action by CCP over this matter. Yet your character was up for sale before the main thread in GD and even before Jester made his blog post........
lol...
Oh god. |
Kaius Fero
12
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:36:00 -
[360] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you. Huh.. so this is official now? EVE is the game where you can learn how to scam, be a douche and overall learn how to ruin other peoples day? Well, then I call it an educational game and maybe it should be allowed to be played in prisons too. Also no court should be allowed to condemn an EVE player.. they learned all these skills in the game and it took years of training... they are heroes after all. Wonder how come no somalians play the game yet... |
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2113
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:38:00 -
[361] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Man, I remember way back when, people would volunteer to sing to get out of a gank. "No ISK sing instead" was said in many local. Me, I demanded "Barbie Girl", that was my go-to for karaoke to save your ship.
Now it's all with the cyberbully and the torture and the bonus rooms and the doublesuperharassment....
Someone bring me mah walker and a glass of iced tea, I'm goin to the farmer's market.
Well I would be screwed if I met you ingame as I have never heard of the song, Barbie Girl This is not a signature. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
812
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:38:00 -
[362] - Quote
I guess If I have a question for CCP.
Where exactly is the line? |
Salvos Rhoska
848
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:40:00 -
[363] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Where exactly is the line?
Right here:
. ------------ |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
510
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:41:00 -
[364] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:It also means the author of the blog that started this whole mess going could also be banned for harassment, considering that no one's permission was asked and even the "victim" suffered because if it. This is ridiculous, and you should feel ridiculous for posting it. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2826
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:42:00 -
[365] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Well at least it's clear now. If anyone does anything you don't like in game, post a ticket with tears, tell them you are feeling upset and demand the other party be instantly banned. If they aren't going to draw lines, and are going to arbitrarily ban people, then we shouldn't assume line ans should report any time something happens in game that we dislike, right? We don't want to assume that it was all find and then later realise it was harassment all along. This very may well devolve into a new FLOOD of petitions linking all kinds of things. FC's freak out in comms and a spy will send it to CCP and say "Shadoo was berating this young FC in comms in front of everyone! The young FC had to just take it or risk being kicked out of the corp!" At least in THAT case Shadoo did something mean. I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair. I shouldn't be punished for having thicker skin than some random pleb, so I think some random would be upset by a situation I'm in I'll be reporting it as an upsetting situation.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
510
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:44:00 -
[366] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair. That's a really mature response to the situation.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4551
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:45:00 -
[367] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:I guess If I have a question for CCP.
Where exactly is the line?
The line is where they decide to draw it.
Their game. Their rules.
Remember how cranky all the noob gankers got when CCP refused to state a specific line? They are being smart here. If they declare a line, then some psychopath will figure out how to weasel around it.
CCP is making the right call.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:45:00 -
[368] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Kristalll wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Well at least it's clear now. If anyone does anything you don't like in game, post a ticket with tears, tell them you are feeling upset and demand the other party be instantly banned. If they aren't going to draw lines, and are going to arbitrarily ban people, then we shouldn't assume line ans should report any time something happens in game that we dislike, right? We don't want to assume that it was all find and then later realise it was harassment all along. This very may well devolve into a new FLOOD of petitions linking all kinds of things. FC's freak out in comms and a spy will send it to CCP and say "Shadoo was berating this young FC in comms in front of everyone! The young FC had to just take it or risk being kicked out of the corp!" At least in THAT case Shadoo did something mean. I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair. I shouldn't be punished for having thicker skin than some random pleb, so I think some random would be upset by a situation I'm in I'll be reporting it as an upsetting situation.
In fact, we should also go out and report other peoples situations that might make them upset that we weren't even in, and without asking the victim if they have a problem.
Clearly that's what CCP is asking us to do. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
368
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:46:00 -
[369] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Kristalll wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Well at least it's clear now. If anyone does anything you don't like in game, post a ticket with tears, tell them you are feeling upset and demand the other party be instantly banned. If they aren't going to draw lines, and are going to arbitrarily ban people, then we shouldn't assume line ans should report any time something happens in game that we dislike, right? We don't want to assume that it was all find and then later realise it was harassment all along. This very may well devolve into a new FLOOD of petitions linking all kinds of things. FC's freak out in comms and a spy will send it to CCP and say "Shadoo was berating this young FC in comms in front of everyone! The young FC had to just take it or risk being kicked out of the corp!" At least in THAT case Shadoo did something mean. I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair. I shouldn't be punished for having thicker skin than some random pleb, so I think some random would be upset by a situation I'm in I'll be reporting it as an upsetting situation.
LOL, good luck with that. Oh, don't forget, please let us know how you get on with spamming the petition system. |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
325
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:46:00 -
[370] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair.
You have completely epicly misunderstood the whole situation. plz biomass yourself now. |
|
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
132
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:46:00 -
[371] - Quote
Also, some posts are getting deleted. Just a heads up. |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
205
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:46:00 -
[372] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Helena Russell Makanen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: I have yet to see Erotica1 tell us he'd have a good laugh and someone being assaulted. He is a sadistic sociopath, of course he would. That's an assumption based on an presumed but not demonstrable premise.
Incorrect.
"If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3057
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:46:00 -
[373] - Quote
The line is in the same place it has always been. Don't threaten to harm people in real life, no hate speech and no encouraging people to kill themselves. That pretty much covers it, I think. Oh god. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3057
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:47:00 -
[374] - Quote
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Helena Russell Makanen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: I have yet to see Erotica1 tell us he'd have a good laugh and someone being assaulted. He is a sadistic sociopath, of course he would. That's an assumption based on an presumed but not demonstrable premise. Incorrect. Is this the part where you lie about having a degree in psychology? Oh god. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
132
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:48:00 -
[375] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair. You have completely epicly misunderstood the whole situation. plz biomass yourself now.
For a FULL DISCLOSURE on the Bonus Room and how it works, please visit: http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
515
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:50:00 -
[376] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:In fact, we should also go out and report other peoples situations that might make them upset that we weren't even in, and without asking the victim if they have a problem.
Clearly that's what CCP is asking us to do. Yes, tell us more about your passive aggressive plan to send more petitions and flood CCP with support queries to teach them a lesson. It's a great plan, one I am sure you gankers will follow through on, and one that CCP will roll over for, rather than blacklist the people flooding the petition system and silently ignore or autorespond to all of their reports.
So, good luck with that. I mean, teaching CCP a lesson. Sounds like a productive use of your time. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
247
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:51:00 -
[377] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:fudface wrote:Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Thanks CCP and I hope you never do take the sand box out of the game. I'm waiting for Erotica 1 to post before I assume this. from what i saw of that imgur link that was posted he cant log in. +1 CCP looks like there is a limit to what you can get away with. Accounts are always suspended when they're under investigation so gg Ripar Teg for using your position to prevent another player from being able to play eve. I think there's something in the EULA about that too.
His being a member of the CSM is a tangential issue. EVERY player is allowed to comment on the goings on of EvE. He didn't abuse any CSM authority in making a blog post about what he thought was reprehensible. Any one of us could have done the exact same thing
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
515
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:53:00 -
[378] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Also, some posts are getting deleted. Just a heads up. I don't say this often enough, but CCP is doing a fantastic job in this thread and the last. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2830
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:53:00 -
[379] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair. That's a really mature response to the situation. Since you're in Spacemonkeys and thus a frequent target for getting ownzoned, you are going to be sending a lot of petitions. I feel this is an attack on my in game choice of alliance, and feel harassed by your words.
And it's a better response than "We banned that person because people complained, even though the "victim" quite clearly stated it was a non-issue, and yet out ruling on the matter will be murky at beast as we don't want to commit to an actual decision". Either people should have to HTFU like their little video says, or we should be able to play in compete peace and harmony. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3057
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:55:00 -
[380] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:His being a member of the CSM is a tangential issue. EVERY player is allowed to comment on the goings on of EvE. He didn't abuse any CSM authority in making a blog post about what he thought was reprehensible. Any one of us could have done the exact same thing
Who said anything about his position on the CSM? I was referring mainly to his blog and his influence over other players, though for a CSM member to be involved in such a spiteful personal campaign to try to get votes is just creepy.
Oh god. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10391
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:56:00 -
[381] - Quote
tasman devil wrote:Sohkar - who -although enraged beyond measure at that point- posted life threats on the voice chat
So what now? To punish them both (Ero1 - life ban, Soh - 30 days ban) would be a hard but justifiable course of action.
"he was drunkangry so its okay" Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
One Eyed Runner
Caldari Naval Auxiliary Services
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:56:00 -
[382] - Quote
#6086 Posted: 2014.03.27 19:18 | Report | ON THE THREADNAUGHT
hmmm ok I have been "Associated" with the government my whole career. I see this as having CCP come out Monday/Tuesday next week and saying we are going to ban Sokhar & Erotica 1 and take all assets off of them. Of course that will be after Sokhar quits and after Erotica 1 quits and gets rid of all his assets. Then they(CCP) will say rules wont change, but we will look at it on a case by case ticket.
just my .02 iskCool
THINK I CALLED IT PERFECTLY EXCEPT FOR WHEN IT WOULD HAPPEN (caps stuck very sorry) I live in Jita so f*ck off |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2834
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:57:00 -
[383] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Kristalll wrote:In fact, we should also go out and report other peoples situations that might make them upset that we weren't even in, and without asking the victim if they have a problem.
Clearly that's what CCP is asking us to do. Yes, tell us more about your passive aggressive plan to send more petitions and flood CCP with support queries to teach them a lesson. It's a great plan, one I am sure you and like minded individuals will follow through on, and one that CCP will roll over for, rather than blacklist the people flooding the petition system and silently ignore or autorespond to all of their reports. So, good luck with that. I mean, teaching CCP a lesson. Sounds like a productive use of your time. I think you misunderstand. It's not to "teach them a lesson". It's because there are no lines drawn and arbitrarily chosen decisions. If that's the case, we might be allowing ourselves to be harassed according to the standards of the public, and we don't want to allow harassment to continue just because we have thicker skin. WE shouldn't be punished for learning to HTFU like CCP previously told us.
Now CCP have always said that if in doubt we should petition and get a clear answer. This thread ensures that we will almost always be in doubt as to whether a situation would be deemed by the public to be harassment. As such, we should follow CCPs explicit instructions to petition each situation we feel like someone may be getting upset and are in doubt.
Edit: I apologise in advance if my words above sounded quite hard edged and encourage you to decide if you feel harassed and petition the matter if you do. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
848
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:57:00 -
[384] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I feel this is an attack on my in game choice of alliance, and feel harassed by your words. Go ahead. File a ticket. File 100. See what happens.
Nothing in the CCP statement in OP supports your conclusions and implications even one inch.
Or. HTFU, and continue playing, as usual. ------------ |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
136
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:58:00 -
[385] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Kristalll wrote:In fact, we should also go out and report other peoples situations that might make them upset that we weren't even in, and without asking the victim if they have a problem.
Clearly that's what CCP is asking us to do. Yes, tell us more about your passive aggressive plan to send more petitions and flood CCP with support queries to teach them a lesson. It's a great plan, one I am sure you and like minded individuals will follow through on, and one that CCP will roll over for, rather than blacklist the people flooding the petition system and silently ignore or autorespond to all of their reports. So, good luck with that. I mean, teaching CCP a lesson. Sounds like a productive use of your time.
It wouldn't be about teaching CCP a lesson. It would be about cleaning up EVE and helping CCP do it.
|
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
136
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 17:59:00 -
[386] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Riot Girl wrote:fudface wrote:Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Thanks CCP and I hope you never do take the sand box out of the game. I'm waiting for Erotica 1 to post before I assume this. from what i saw of that imgur link that was posted he cant log in. +1 CCP looks like there is a limit to what you can get away with. Accounts are always suspended when they're under investigation so gg Ripar Teg for using your position to prevent another player from being able to play eve. I think there's something in the EULA about that too. His being a member of the CSM is a tangential issue. EVERY player is allowed to comment on the goings on of EvE. He didn't abuse any CSM authority in making a blog post about what he thought was reprehensible. Any one of us could have done the exact same thing
Except being on the CSM means he has been selected by the PLAYERS to represent them and accepted by CCP to help represent CCP to the Public. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
370
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:02:00 -
[387] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:The line is in the same place it has always been. Don't threaten to harm people in real life, no hate speech and no encouraging people to kill themselves. That pretty much covers it, I think.
Oh, I'd say it goes a little bit further than that to be honest .....
CCP Falcon wrote: ..... The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world .....
(my highlighting) and ...
CCP Guard wrote: ... The EULA has always affected external content to a degree, when that content is shared using our systems. For example when you post a link that contains inappropriate content, even though that content is hosted somewhere outside EVE Online, there's always been potential for disciplinary action ....
If your gaming or real life antics are such that you typically fly as close to the line of decency as possible, then I'd say you better give greater consideration to your actions in future. Thankfully, for the vast majority of our community, this won't be an issue. The take away message is: don't be that bad apple.
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
515
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:05:00 -
[388] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I plan to report any time I feel like someone might be upset by a situation I'm in. It seems only fair. That's a really mature response to the situation. Since you're in Spacemonkeys and thus a frequent target for getting ownzoned, you are going to be sending a lot of petitions. I feel this is an attack on my in game choice of alliance, and feel harassed by your words. Then you should definitely do something about it. Like get in a better alliance, or make Spacemonkeys not terrible at everything.
Lucas Kell wrote:And it's a better response than "We banned that person because people complained, even though the "victim" quite clearly stated it was a non-issue, and yet out ruling on the matter will be murky at beast as we don't want to commit to an actual decision". Either people should have to HTFU like their little video says, or we should be able to play in compete peace and harmony. All I see is a trail of tears friend. A trail of sweet, delicious tears.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
136
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:05:00 -
[389] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote: If your gaming or real life antics are such that you typically fly as close to the line of decency as possible, then I'd say you better give greater consideration to your actions in future. Thankfully, for the vast majority of our community, this won't be an issue. The take away message is: don't be that bad apple.
Define: "Decency" in this context. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10393
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:06:00 -
[390] - Quote
Also what's with everyone here believing that they're entitled to know how CCP deals with cases? Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
|
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3061
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:06:00 -
[391] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:If your gaming or real life antics are such that you typically fly as close to the line of decency as possible, then I'd say you better give greater consideration to your actions in future. Thankfully, for the vast majority of our community, this won't be an issue. The take away message is: don't be that bad apple. Why should I? Everything is the same as before. Oh god. |
Salvos Rhoska
849
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:07:00 -
[392] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Except being on the CSM means he has been selected by the PLAYERS to represent them and accepted by CCP to help represent CCP to the Public. And? Your point? ------------ |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
517
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:07:00 -
[393] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:It wouldn't be about teaching CCP a lesson. It would be about cleaning up EVE and helping CCP do it.
How noble of you. I am sure CCP appreciates your offer to help and will be in touch very soon. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
372
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:08:00 -
[394] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Kinis Deren wrote: If your gaming or real life antics are such that you typically fly as close to the line of decency as possible, then I'd say you better give greater consideration to your actions in future. Thankfully, for the vast majority of our community, this won't be an issue. The take away message is: don't be that bad apple.
Define: "Decency" in this context.
Whatever CCP says it is. |
Kaius Fero
12
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:09:00 -
[395] - Quote
I think everybody misunderstood CCP. Scamming people out of game is totally legit and legal now! Personally I'm very happy with the response as I had the misconception that only "light" scams are allowed.. like selling a plex and also request another 2 plex. Now that I know there is no limit and we are allowed to scam people out of the game, I'm in with full steam. Starting tomorrow I will create a scam alt and do serious business.
This is glorious.. it will bring a lot of new people to the game. Personally I know a few dudes whom may be very interested in this "game" and they know few tricks. The only thing I will not do is the mayo game.. except is the victim is a female :P
Thanks CCP! |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5525
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:10:00 -
[396] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:It also means the author of the blog that started this whole mess going could also be banned for harassment, considering that no one's permission was asked and even the "victim" suffered because if it. This is ridiculous, and you should feel ridiculous for posting it. Except, of course, that the blog did more to harass the victim than the bonus room did. Perhaps you missed his public discussion of the issue? To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
372
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:10:00 -
[397] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:If your gaming or real life antics are such that you typically fly as close to the line of decency as possible, then I'd say you better give greater consideration to your actions in future. Thankfully, for the vast majority of our community, this won't be an issue. The take away message is: don't be that bad apple. Why should I?
Just in case you step over the CCP defined line - I thought that would be obvious tbh.
|
mkint
1123
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:11:00 -
[398] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Dear CCP Falcon,
How do you deal with harassment outside the game media, for example on TeamSpeak or Mumble ?
I have had multiple instances where people would insult me to a point where they would insult my family, threaten to kill my dog, come to my house and do something to me or beat me up at fanfest. I even had a guy tell me I should get cancer and die.
How do I deal with that ? CCP has no authority outside of the ingame media, however the out of game comms are an extension and are directly related to the game.
I am an adult and I have pretty thick skin and yet, I am man enough to admit that something inside me broke when certain people made those insults. I felt really hurt and it touched a sensitive side of me and instead of getting angry I could do nothing other then feel really bad about it.
So, how do you deal with things like that ? Can I come to CCP and ask for action taken against these individuals ? Do I have to supply a recording ? In almost all instances similar to what you describe, we would advise you to contact local authorities if you feel threatened or if you feel that laws have been broken. It's not common that events taking place outside the game or our websites result in disciplinary action from us due to obvious reasons, but we do reserve the right to restrict access to your services when we find them to be used for violating the EULA. Players are of course always welcome to contact us and ask for advice or assistance.
In other words, if someone gets murdered IRL because of in-game events, CCP not only condones, but squarely files it in the "someone else's problem" column. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:12:00 -
[399] - Quote
... Why did we have to lock the old thread when the same arguments and trolling are in this thread? Now we will have 2 identical 450+ page threads of nonsense instead of 1 900 page thread of nonsense. The fact that we are already upto page 20 in this particular thread makes me think we are looking at threadzilla 2.
Just because its a different thread doesn't mean we aren't beating the hell out of the same dead horse.
As to all you people saying that your quitting? I call troll-bait >.> In 2 weeks you'll be back... You know you will. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4551
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:13:00 -
[400] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:I guess If I have a question for CCP.
Where exactly is the line? The line is where they decide to draw it. Their game. Their rules. Remember how cranky all the noob gankers got when CCP refused to state a specific line? They are being smart here. If they declare a line, then some psychopath will figure out how to weasel around it. CCP is making the right call. Mr Epeen
I agree with the internet ***** on this.
For a lot of people, and that "certain" kind of player for whom if I use that "path" word they flock to rail against (doth protesting too much?) gaming around a given line of conduct IS there game and it would not matter if this was internet space ships, or cars, or even an MMO version of angry birds or something - they will find ways to greif and act coy about it trying to turn the blame on everybody else.
CCP leaving the line open and not clearly defined keeps that certain kind of player in check. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
|
Jack Lennox
Killing With a Smile
53
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:15:00 -
[401] - Quote
Long live the Bonus Room
KWAS is now recruiting!-á Incursion Running, L4 Missions, Orca boosts for mining, and small gang WH PvE/PvP |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
744
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:15:00 -
[402] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
People please read the OP before you post... The key word here is existing . This means no change and for a good reason. Change was not needed.
RL harassment and scamming is already against the EULA. I think that's the way it should be. If someone harrasses a player based on some RL issue he has that person should be dealt with harshly. For example if you ridicule someone for being overweight and living in their mother's basement... This is a personal attack and totally unacceptable. Now if I say "You suck at ship fitting... Why would you put Light missile launchers on a Raven" this is an in game critique and should be acceptable.
What seems to be an issue is many people can't separate RL from "In game". If you're getting seriously upset over something that happened in game perhaps that person needs a break from video games to put things in perspective. Sure I'm upset when I lose a few billion ISK... That lasts for a few minutes and doesn't involve any tears on my part. More like "Crap that was really really dumb on my part". Not "OMG OMG OMG what is he doing... Wait don't do that... Why is this happening to me???"
Many of the posters asking for some change remind me of gun control supporters in the US. "Lets make new gun control laws so we can stop the killings". Of course no killer wants be charged with carrying a firearm because he might get 5 years in prison... Now those pesky murder charges where he could get the death penalty are no biggie though lol |
Bayonnefrog
Hedion University Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:15:00 -
[403] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Riot Girl wrote:fudface wrote:Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Thanks CCP and I hope you never do take the sand box out of the game. I'm waiting for Erotica 1 to post before I assume this. from what i saw of that imgur link that was posted he cant log in. +1 CCP looks like there is a limit to what you can get away with. Accounts are always suspended when they're under investigation so gg Ripar Teg for using your position to prevent another player from being able to play eve. I think there's something in the EULA about that too. His being a member of the CSM is a tangential issue. EVERY player is allowed to comment on the goings on of EvE. He didn't abuse any CSM authority in making a blog post about what he thought was reprehensible. Any one of us could have done the exact same thing
Riot Girl, do not shift the blame away from Ero 1 and Co. THEY were the ones who created the mess they find themselves in now, not Ripard. He pointed out what happened and articulated why it was wrong. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
249
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:18:00 -
[404] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Shizuken wrote:His being a member of the CSM is a tangential issue. EVERY player is allowed to comment on the goings on of EvE. He didn't abuse any CSM authority in making a blog post about what he thought was reprehensible. Any one of us could have done the exact same thing
Who said anything about his position on the CSM? I was referring mainly to his blog and his influence over other players, though for a CSM member to be involved in such a spiteful personal campaign to try to get votes is just creepy.
Ohh please! Stop with the BS already. My boots are only so high.
Your contention here makes no sense. If you werent referring to his CSM status then he is still justified in speaking out on issues surrounding Eve. There is nothing wrong in bringing issues to light for open discussion.
I think your real gripe, which you cant really argue without looking weak, is that there are more people out there than you thought that find this type of behavior unacceptable, and that for once on these forums we have been louder and more convincing than people like you. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
138
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:19:00 -
[405] - Quote
Bayonnefrog wrote: Riot Girl, do not shift the blame away from Ero 1 and Co. THEY were the ones who created the mess they find themselves in now, not Ripard. He merely pointed out what happened and articulated why it was wrong.
This just in: Sensationalism is just articulation!
If you want to know what the Bonus Room is ACTUALLY about: http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room |
Bayonnefrog
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:20:00 -
[406] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I agree with the internet ***** on this.
For a lot of people, and that "certain" kind of player for whom if I use that "path" word they flock to rail against (doth protesting too much?) gaming around a given line of conduct IS there game and it would not matter if this was internet space ships, or cars, or even an MMO version of angry birds or something - they will find ways to greif and act coy about it trying to turn the blame on everybody else.
CCP leaving the line open and not clearly defined keeps that certain kind of player in check.
Except nobody knows what part of the Bonus Room was the issue (assuming Erotica WAS banned). There are lots of things VERY similar that don't differ in any meaningful way that are regular occurrences throughout New Eden.
I think if you listen to the Sohkar bonus recording in earnest, you'll discover what is wrong with the entire thing. |
Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
331
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:20:00 -
[407] - Quote
I feel cyberbullied by the constant back and forth in these threads. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Andall Combat Tournaments - on hiatus. Contact for more information. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
138
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:20:00 -
[408] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote: Erotica 1 reports that he cannot log into his account and believes himself to have been banned. He says he has had no communication with CCP explaining if its temporary or permanent. He also says
"I do regret that CCP did not provide me one iota of guidance as I repeatedly requested in forums regarding bonus rounds and the like. I have been handed a rather long rope (the sandbox) to metaphorically hang myself with. "
So, it may be that everyone is now safe from having someone talk them into giving them their Eve stuff and then making fun of them when they do it. Eve is saved.
BBB
You forgot that it's pretty much guaranteed CCP saw the Bonus Room article on Miner Bumping ages ago. |
Kaius Fero
12
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:21:00 -
[409] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote: Erotica 1 reports that he cannot log into his account and believes himself to have been banned. He says he has had no communication with CCP explaining if its temporary or permanent. He also says
"I do regret that CCP did not provide me one iota of guidance as I repeatedly requested in forums regarding bonus rounds and the like. I have been handed a rather long rope (the sandbox) to metaphorically hang myself with. "
So, it may be that everyone is now safe from having someone talk them into giving them their Eve stuff and then making fun of them when they do it. Eve is saved.
BBB That's a shame :( I was really looking to do a glory hole with him (no mayo tho)). Ero dude.. I feel ya :( |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4552
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:21:00 -
[410] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I agree with the internet ***** on this.
For a lot of people, and that "certain" kind of player for whom if I use that "path" word they flock to rail against (doth protesting too much?) gaming around a given line of conduct IS there game and it would not matter if this was internet space ships, or cars, or even an MMO version of angry birds or something - they will find ways to greif and act coy about it trying to turn the blame on everybody else.
CCP leaving the line open and not clearly defined keeps that certain kind of player in check.
Except nobody knows what part of the Bonus Room was the issue (assuming Erotica WAS banned). There are lots of things VERY similar that don't differ in any meaningful way that are regular occurrences throughout New Eden.
Right but the property owners don't care. They have established what is acceptable and if an issue is raised they will judge the case given the existing evidence (the case) and the existing rules (the law).
Now I know the socipaths are going to be angry for a bit and I already see people saying they are going to petition every little thing.
Therefore let me offer my time and services to CCP in this thread in helping with petition reviews. I know that small minority is going to try to make themselves look like the entire player base with mouse clicks, so dumping their petitions may well be enjoyable knowing what kind of people are sending it.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
|
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
138
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:22:00 -
[411] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Shizuken wrote:His being a member of the CSM is a tangential issue. EVERY player is allowed to comment on the goings on of EvE. He didn't abuse any CSM authority in making a blog post about what he thought was reprehensible. Any one of us could have done the exact same thing
Who said anything about his position on the CSM? I was referring mainly to his blog and his influence over other players, though for a CSM member to be involved in such a spiteful personal campaign to try to get votes is just creepy. Ohh please! Stop with the BS already. My boots are only so high. Your contention here makes no sense. If you werent referring to his CSM status then he is still justified in speaking out on issues surrounding Eve. There is nothing wrong in bringing issues to light for open discussion. I think your real gripe, which you cant really argue without looking weak, is that there are more people out there than you thought that find this type of behavior unacceptable, and that for once on these forums we have been louder and more convincing than people like you.
Let's be clear. Nobody really has an issue with Ripard bringing the issue more attention. What people have a problem with is the fact his post was nothing but sensationalism at it's grandest. He deliberately blows the entire thing out of proportion. |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:23:00 -
[412] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:I think everybody misunderstood CCP. Scamming people out of game is totally legit and legal now! Personally I'm very happy with the response as I had the misconception that only "light" scams are allowed.. like selling a plex and also request another 2 plex. Now that I know there is no limit and we are allowed to scam people out of the game, I'm in with full steam. Starting tomorrow I will create a scam alt and do serious business.
This is glorious.. it will bring a lot of new people to the game. Personally I know a few dudes whom may be very interested in this "game" and they know few tricks. The only thing I will not do is the mayo game.. except is the victim is a female :P
Thanks CCP!
Hell Yeah bro!! I wonder how twisted I can take this and get away with it. Now that I know there is no limits. What do you all think?? Could I get someone to kill thereself irl??? As long as I do it indirectly and stay in CCP rules I should be alright! When his family is crying at his grave I can point and laugh "Your son just got EVE'd". Gonna start today in jita recruiting likely mentally disturbed candidates for my pyschological abuse. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3137
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:23:00 -
[413] - Quote
What the hell do you pods expect CCP to do? There's no way they could write a firm policy on this. The ONLY thing they can do is take these things on a case-by-case basis. It's just not as cut and dry and some of you think.
|
Bayonnefrog
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:24:00 -
[414] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Bayonnefrog wrote: Riot Girl, do not shift the blame away from Ero 1 and Co. THEY were the ones who created the mess they find themselves in now, not Ripard. He merely pointed out what happened and articulated why it was wrong.
This just in: Sensationalism is just articulation! If you want to know what the Bonus Room is ACTUALLY about: http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room
And this is what the Ero 1 apologists fall back on if someone calls them on it. The fact is that Ripard described in detail and put into context what goes on in the Bonus Room, specifically the one with Sohkar in it, and how wrong it is. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:26:00 -
[415] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Bing Bangboom wrote: Erotica 1 reports that he cannot log into his account and believes himself to have been banned. He says he has had no communication with CCP explaining if its temporary or permanent. He also says
"I do regret that CCP did not provide me one iota of guidance as I repeatedly requested in forums regarding bonus rounds and the like. I have been handed a rather long rope (the sandbox) to metaphorically hang myself with. "
So, it may be that everyone is now safe from having someone talk them into giving them their Eve stuff and then making fun of them when they do it. Eve is saved.
BBB You forgot that it's pretty much guaranteed CCP saw the Bonus Room article on Miner Bumping ages ago.
^^^^^^^^^ This^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Its the point I've been trying to make sense page 300 or so. Why now and not then? And I assume the other guys account is suspended as well? It would have to be because he broke rules too if CCP is now trying to police TS servers...
|
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
745
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:26:00 -
[416] - Quote
Why is it so hard for many posters to separate RL from a game?
I'll be the first to admit I don't have much of a RL but I know the difference! |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
142
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:26:00 -
[417] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Right but the property owners don't care. They have established what is acceptable and if an issue is raised they will judge the case given the existing evidence (the case) and the existing rules (the law).
Now I know the socipaths are going to be angry for a bit and I already see people saying they are going to petition every little thing.
Therefore let me offer my time and services to CCP in this thread in helping with petition reviews. I know that small minority is going to try to make themselves look like the entire player base with mouse clicks, so dumping their petitions may well be enjoyable knowing what kind of people are sending it.
Except they didn't establish was is acceptable. Because nobody knows what the issue was that made this unnacceptable.
And you're against an outspoken minority? Yet supported this? I think that's hypocrisy. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3065
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:27:00 -
[418] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:If your gaming or real life antics are such that you typically fly as close to the line of decency as possible, then I'd say you better give greater consideration to your actions in future. Thankfully, for the vast majority of our community, this won't be an issue. The take away message is: don't be that bad apple. Why should I? Just in case you step over the CCP defined line - I thought that would be obvious tbh. I can take care of myself, thanks.
Oh god. |
Bayonnefrog
Hedion University Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:27:00 -
[419] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Shizuken wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Shizuken wrote:His being a member of the CSM is a tangential issue. EVERY player is allowed to comment on the goings on of EvE. He didn't abuse any CSM authority in making a blog post about what he thought was reprehensible. Any one of us could have done the exact same thing
Who said anything about his position on the CSM? I was referring mainly to his blog and his influence over other players, though for a CSM member to be involved in such a spiteful personal campaign to try to get votes is just creepy. Ohh please! Stop with the BS already. My boots are only so high. Your contention here makes no sense. If you werent referring to his CSM status then he is still justified in speaking out on issues surrounding Eve. There is nothing wrong in bringing issues to light for open discussion. I think your real gripe, which you cant really argue without looking weak, is that there are more people out there than you thought that find this type of behavior unacceptable, and that for once on these forums we have been louder and more convincing than people like you. Let's be clear. Nobody really has an issue with Ripard bringing the issue more attention. What people have a problem with is the fact his post was nothing but sensationalism at it's grandest. He deliberately blows the entire thing out of proportion.
How else do you want him to bring attention to it? What would you change about his post specifically? He accurately described exactly what goes on! |
Anslo
Scope Works
4610
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:28:00 -
[420] - Quote
Posting back and forth on this will literally go no where. So, I got an idea;
How about a good old fashioned in game fleet vs fleet grudge match to work out the rage?
|
|
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
142
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:28:00 -
[421] - Quote
Bayonnefrog wrote:Kristalll wrote:Bayonnefrog wrote: Riot Girl, do not shift the blame away from Ero 1 and Co. THEY were the ones who created the mess they find themselves in now, not Ripard. He merely pointed out what happened and articulated why it was wrong.
This just in: Sensationalism is just articulation! If you want to know what the Bonus Room is ACTUALLY about: http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room And this is what the Ero 1 apologists fall back on if someone calls them on it. The fact is that Ripard described in detail and put into context what goes on in the Bonus Room, specifically the one with Sohkar in it, and how wrong it is.
So, you are SUPPORTING the idea that having someone sing on teamspeak is torture?
This has got to be a troll. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3065
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:28:00 -
[422] - Quote
mkint wrote:CCP Guard wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Dear CCP Falcon,
How do you deal with harassment outside the game media, for example on TeamSpeak or Mumble ?
I have had multiple instances where people would insult me to a point where they would insult my family, threaten to kill my dog, come to my house and do something to me or beat me up at fanfest. I even had a guy tell me I should get cancer and die.
How do I deal with that ? CCP has no authority outside of the ingame media, however the out of game comms are an extension and are directly related to the game.
I am an adult and I have pretty thick skin and yet, I am man enough to admit that something inside me broke when certain people made those insults. I felt really hurt and it touched a sensitive side of me and instead of getting angry I could do nothing other then feel really bad about it.
So, how do you deal with things like that ? Can I come to CCP and ask for action taken against these individuals ? Do I have to supply a recording ? In almost all instances similar to what you describe, we would advise you to contact local authorities if you feel threatened or if you feel that laws have been broken. It's not common that events taking place outside the game or our websites result in disciplinary action from us due to obvious reasons, but we do reserve the right to restrict access to your services when we find them to be used for violating the EULA. Players are of course always welcome to contact us and ask for advice or assistance. In other words, if someone gets murdered IRL because of in-game events, CCP not only condones, but squarely files it in the "someone else's problem" column. That's because it is someone else's problem. Why would CCP have any involvement in a murder trial, other than to submit evidence if requested?
Oh god. |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1101
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:29:00 -
[423] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote: Erotica 1 reports that he cannot log into his account and believes himself to have been banned. He says he has had no communication with CCP explaining if its temporary or permanent. He also says
"I do regret that CCP did not provide me one iota of guidance as I repeatedly requested in forums regarding bonus rounds and the like. I have been handed a rather long rope (the sandbox) to metaphorically hang myself with. "
So, it may be that everyone is now safe from having someone talk them into giving them their Eve stuff and then making fun of them when they do it. Eve is saved.
BBB
Don't worry pilots of Jita, anyone jonesing for a 5x isk fix are welcome in my bonus room on skype any time.
Oh, and in this bonus room...
...it ain't mayo.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14598
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:29:00 -
[424] - Quote
http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?16342-The-Bonus-Round&p=1053833&viewfull=1#post1053833
1 Kings 12:11
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5528
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:30:00 -
[425] - Quote
Bayonnefrog wrote:Kristalll wrote:Bayonnefrog wrote: Riot Girl, do not shift the blame away from Ero 1 and Co. THEY were the ones who created the mess they find themselves in now, not Ripard. He merely pointed out what happened and articulated why it was wrong.
This just in: Sensationalism is just articulation! If you want to know what the Bonus Room is ACTUALLY about: http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room And this is what the Ero 1 apologists fall back on if someone calls them on it. The fact is that Ripard described in detail and put into context what goes on in the Bonus Room, specifically the one with Sohkar in it, and how wrong it is. Not according to Sohkar.... To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3065
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:33:00 -
[426] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:I think your real gripe, which you cant really argue without looking weak, is that there are more people out there than you thought that find this type of behavior unacceptable, and that for once on these forums we have been louder and more convincing than people like you. Doesn't strike any chords. Oh god. |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:34:00 -
[427] - Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Amanda_Todd
So eve supports this and is in favor of outcomes like this one ^^??? Hell yeah time to dish out death like the grim reaper. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
372
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:35:00 -
[428] - Quote
Kristalll wrote: Except being on the CSM means he has been selected by the PLAYERS to represent them and accepted by CCP to help represent CCP to the Public.
I believe Ripard Teg has been an outstanding CSM member and I feel the community owes him a debt of gratitude for being our moral conscience in this matter. I for one thank him whole heartedly for bringing the somewhat more questionable side of EVE to my attention. In this respect he has performed brilliantly as a representative I voted for.
I also have a great deal of respect for the other members of the CSM for largely withholding their opinions to allow the player base to debate the matter in the original thread.
|
Dave Stark
4806
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:35:00 -
[429] - Quote
so basically CCP have said "we're going to carry on doing what we were, which is nothing." called it. |
Dave Stark
4808
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:36:00 -
[430] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Amanda_Todd
So eve supports this and is in favor of outcomes like this one ^^??? Hell yeah time to dish out death like the grim reaper.
except in real life you can't just "block" some one, like you can online. there are pretty much 0 parallels between her story, and what is being discussed here. |
|
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:39:00 -
[431] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote: Except being on the CSM means he has been selected by the PLAYERS to represent them and accepted by CCP to help represent CCP to the Public.
I believe Ripard Teg has been an outstanding CSM member and I feel the community owes him a debt of gratitude for being our moral conscience in this matter. I for one thank him whole heartedly for bringing the somewhat more questionable side of EVE to my attention. In this respect he has performed brilliantly as a representative I voted for. I also have a great deal of respect for the other members of the CSM for largely withholding their opinions to allow the player base to debate the matter in the original thread.
Maybe if he didn't drag CCP through the mud and call this situation Torture! Hell, he never even talked to the "victim". |
Tear Jar
The Conference Elite CODE.
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:39:00 -
[432] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Please feel free to discuss this statement in this thread, however please also be aware of the forum rules, and our rules on discussion of warnings and bans. Above all, lets keep it civil and constructive. Thanks again.
My issue is that we already knew everything you posted. Obviously, if its extreme enough, CCP will take action against real life harrassment extended from Eve. Nobody disputes that.
The drama is over the vagueness of real life harrassment. The ideal solution would be to give specific information over when the line is crossed, that way future drama like this can be quickly closed down by simply citing that information.
As it stands, even if the bonus room is banned, all that really shows is that if you generate enough drama over something, it will be banned. |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1151
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:40:00 -
[433] - Quote
CCP is very skilled at typing a lot of words to say nothing at all. AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:40:00 -
[434] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Amanda_Todd
So eve supports this and is in favor of outcomes like this one ^^??? Hell yeah time to dish out death like the grim reaper. except in real life you can't just "block" some one, like you can online. there are pretty much 0 parallels between her story, and what is being discussed here.
Oh but there is. Any type of emotional trama that is caused wether it be temporary or long term harrassment can cause great harm to the parties who are victim especially if those victims are already mentally disturbed to begin with. But hey man i'm on your side im all about manipulating the weak and causing long term damage. Lets dish out the psycological abuse together bro!! |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:40:00 -
[435] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Amanda_Todd
So eve supports this and is in favor of outcomes like this one ^^??? Hell yeah time to dish out death like the grim reaper. except in real life you can't just "block" some one, like you can online. there are pretty much 0 parallels between her story, and what is being discussed here.
What? You mean Erotica 1 DIDN'T physically assault Sohkar?! |
Kaius Fero
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:42:00 -
[436] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?16342-The-Bonus-Round&p=1053833&viewfull=1#post1053833 Did anyone told you that you need a big Dislike button? A really BIG one! |
Dave Stark
4808
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:43:00 -
[437] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Amanda_Todd
So eve supports this and is in favor of outcomes like this one ^^??? Hell yeah time to dish out death like the grim reaper. except in real life you can't just "block" some one, like you can online. there are pretty much 0 parallels between her story, and what is being discussed here. Oh but there is. Any type of emotional trama that is caused wether it be temporary or long term harrassment can cause great harm to the parties who are victim especially if those victims are already mentally disturbed to begin with. But hey man i'm on your side im all about manipulating the weak and causing long term damage. Lets dish out the psycological abuse together bro!!
if providing you with english lessons were abuse, i would gladly encourage that type of abuse. |
voetius
BITB Support Services
209
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:43:00 -
[438] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote: Erotica 1 reports that he cannot log into his account and believes himself to have been banned. He says he has had no communication with CCP explaining if its temporary or permanent. He also says
"I do regret that CCP did not provide me one iota of guidance as I repeatedly requested in forums regarding bonus rounds and the like. I have been handed a rather long rope (the sandbox) to metaphorically hang myself with. "
So, it may be that everyone is now safe from having someone talk them into giving them their Eve stuff and then making fun of them when they do it. Eve is saved.
BBB
The problem with these sort of issues is that people will spin them whatever way suits their prejudices as seen in the recent threadnaught.
In the case of the quote above, if CCP had stepped in and laid down the law then there could quite well have been more outrage for "interfering in the sandbox, blah blah".
It's a no-win situation in many ways. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
373
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:45:00 -
[439] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote: Except being on the CSM means he has been selected by the PLAYERS to represent them and accepted by CCP to help represent CCP to the Public.
I believe Ripard Teg has been an outstanding CSM member and I feel the community owes him a debt of gratitude for being our moral conscience in this matter. I for one thank him whole heartedly for bringing the somewhat more questionable side of EVE to my attention. In this respect he has performed brilliantly as a representative I voted for. I also have a great deal of respect for the other members of the CSM for largely withholding their opinions to allow the player base to debate the matter in the original thread. Maybe if he didn't drag CCP through the mud and call this situation Torture! Hell, he never even talked to the "victim".
I'm of the humble opinion it was your Bonus Room antics that "dragged CCP through the mud", as you put it, by association. |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1152
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:47:00 -
[440] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote: Except being on the CSM means he has been selected by the PLAYERS to represent them and accepted by CCP to help represent CCP to the Public.
I believe Ripard Teg has been an outstanding CSM member and I feel the community owes him a debt of gratitude for being our moral conscience in this matter. I for one thank him whole heartedly for bringing the somewhat more questionable side of EVE to my attention. In this respect he has performed brilliantly as a representative I voted for. I also have a great deal of respect for the other members of the CSM for largely withholding their opinions to allow the player base to debate the matter in the original thread. Maybe if he didn't drag CCP through the mud and call this situation Torture! Hell, he never even talked to the "victim". I'm of the humble opinion it was your Bonus Room antics that "dragged CCP through the mud", as you put it, by association.
Except the Bonus Room never brought attention to CCP...
It was Ripard Teg saying "LOOK AT THE TORTURE THAT GOES ON IN EVE ONLINE AND CCP DOES NOTHING".
I mean I guess that's hard for you to understand though. AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
|
Dave Stark
4813
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:49:00 -
[441] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote: Except being on the CSM means he has been selected by the PLAYERS to represent them and accepted by CCP to help represent CCP to the Public.
I believe Ripard Teg has been an outstanding CSM member and I feel the community owes him a debt of gratitude for being our moral conscience in this matter. I for one thank him whole heartedly for bringing the somewhat more questionable side of EVE to my attention. In this respect he has performed brilliantly as a representative I voted for. I also have a great deal of respect for the other members of the CSM for largely withholding their opinions to allow the player base to debate the matter in the original thread. Maybe if he didn't drag CCP through the mud and call this situation Torture! Hell, he never even talked to the "victim". I'm of the humble opinion it was your Bonus Room antics that "dragged CCP through the mud", as you put it, by association. Except the Bonus Room never brought attention to CCP... It was Ripard Teg saying "LOOK AT THE TORTURE THAT GOES ON IN EVE ONLINE AND CCP DOES NOTHING". I mean I guess that's hard for you to understand though.
you mean, the activity that had been going on for months, and months, and months that nobody cared about didn't bring attention until some one made a sensationalised article about it on a well trafficked blog?
i am sincerely shocked. |
Kaius Fero
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:50:00 -
[442] - Quote
voetius wrote:Bing Bangboom wrote: Erotica 1 reports that he cannot log into his account and believes himself to have been banned. He says he has had no communication with CCP explaining if its temporary or permanent. He also says
"I do regret that CCP did not provide me one iota of guidance as I repeatedly requested in forums regarding bonus rounds and the like. I have been handed a rather long rope (the sandbox) to metaphorically hang myself with. "
So, it may be that everyone is now safe from having someone talk them into giving them their Eve stuff and then making fun of them when they do it. Eve is saved.
BBB The problem with these sort of issues is that people will spin them whatever way suits their prejudices as seen in the recent threadnaught. In the case of the quote above, if CCP had stepped in and laid down the law then there could quite well have been more outrage for "interfering in the sandbox, blah blah". It's a no-win situation in many ways. Yeah right.. CCP banned Mittani for a month, then burn Jita started. Are you serious.. these bans are only for the press. We are free to fuk up anybody we want.. only rule is to be outside of game ;) We are safe now :) |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
348
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:51:00 -
[443] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:
Above all, lets keep it civil and constructive.
Thats sarcastic, right?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:53:00 -
[444] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
i am sincerely shocked.
Don't worry, you'll get over it
|
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:54:00 -
[445] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote: Except being on the CSM means he has been selected by the PLAYERS to represent them and accepted by CCP to help represent CCP to the Public.
I believe Ripard Teg has been an outstanding CSM member and I feel the community owes him a debt of gratitude for being our moral conscience in this matter. I for one thank him whole heartedly for bringing the somewhat more questionable side of EVE to my attention. In this respect he has performed brilliantly as a representative I voted for. I also have a great deal of respect for the other members of the CSM for largely withholding their opinions to allow the player base to debate the matter in the original thread. Maybe if he didn't drag CCP through the mud and call this situation Torture! Hell, he never even talked to the "victim". I'm of the humble opinion it was your Bonus Room antics that "dragged CCP through the mud", as you put it, by association. Except the Bonus Room never brought attention to CCP... It was Ripard Teg saying "LOOK AT THE TORTURE THAT GOES ON IN EVE ONLINE AND CCP DOES NOTHING". I mean I guess that's hard for you to understand though.
Players like me and the large majority who have posted recently are very glad this was brought to our attention. I had no idea this kind of psychological abuse was going on.
|
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1155
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:54:00 -
[446] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
you mean, the activity that had been going on for months, and months, and months that nobody cared about didn't bring attention until some one made a sensationalised article about it on a well trafficked blog?
i am sincerely shocked.
Well since Erotica 1 has been dragging CCP's name through the mud for almost a year with Bonus Rounds, maybe some of our forum participants can name some "victims" other than Sohkar?
You know since the whole thing is like a really big deal and all, and not just this one incident. AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1155
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:55:00 -
[447] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:
Players like me and the large majority who have posted recently are very glad this was brought to our attention. I had no idea this kind of psychological abuse was going on.
I'm still unaware of any "psychological abuse" and have been eagerly awaiting someone to point out such to me for... days now.
AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2838
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:55:00 -
[448] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Then you should definitely do something about it. Like get in a better alliance, or make Spacemonkeys not terrible at everything. Really? Why should my actions be to deal with the consequences of my choices? Surely the new ruling is hat you aren;t allowed to speak to me negatively about my choices instead.
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:All I see is a trail of tears friend. A trail of sweet, delicious tears. Then you should look harder. What I'm going against here is an attack on freedom of speech with incredibly loose rulings leaving a huge margin for error brought on by the rage of the public over a single instance instead of rational decision making based on the overall situation. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:56:00 -
[449] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote: Except being on the CSM means he has been selected by the PLAYERS to represent them and accepted by CCP to help represent CCP to the Public.
I believe Ripard Teg has been an outstanding CSM member and I feel the community owes him a debt of gratitude for being our moral conscience in this matter. I for one thank him whole heartedly for bringing the somewhat more questionable side of EVE to my attention. In this respect he has performed brilliantly as a representative I voted for. I also have a great deal of respect for the other members of the CSM for largely withholding their opinions to allow the player base to debate the matter in the original thread. Maybe if he didn't drag CCP through the mud and call this situation Torture! Hell, he never even talked to the "victim". I'm of the humble opinion it was your Bonus Room antics that "dragged CCP through the mud", as you put it, by association. Except the Bonus Room never brought attention to CCP... It was Ripard Teg saying "LOOK AT THE TORTURE THAT GOES ON IN EVE ONLINE AND CCP DOES NOTHING". I mean I guess that's hard for you to understand though.
Exactly. CCP knew about this the minute the recording hit Miner Bumping. If they really thought this broke any rules, ero's account would have been actioned then and not now. The only reason they are doing so now is some angry kid with a blog is effectively holding them hostage...
|
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:57:00 -
[450] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Kristalll wrote: Except being on the CSM means he has been selected by the PLAYERS to represent them and accepted by CCP to help represent CCP to the Public.
I believe Ripard Teg has been an outstanding CSM member and I feel the community owes him a debt of gratitude for being our moral conscience in this matter. I for one thank him whole heartedly for bringing the somewhat more questionable side of EVE to my attention. In this respect he has performed brilliantly as a representative I voted for. I also have a great deal of respect for the other members of the CSM for largely withholding their opinions to allow the player base to debate the matter in the original thread. Maybe if he didn't drag CCP through the mud and call this situation Torture! Hell, he never even talked to the "victim". I'm of the humble opinion it was your Bonus Room antics that "dragged CCP through the mud", as you put it, by association. Except the Bonus Room never brought attention to CCP... It was Ripard Teg saying "LOOK AT THE TORTURE THAT GOES ON IN EVE ONLINE AND CCP DOES NOTHING". I mean I guess that's hard for you to understand though.
So, when you have a festering splinter, do you blame your pain receptors or try to remove the splinter & infection?
|
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
350
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:57:00 -
[451] - Quote
Hell, I dont even get why this is NEWS http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1155
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:58:00 -
[452] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:
Exactly. CCP knew about this the minute the recording hit Miner Bumping. If they really thought this broke any rules, ero's account would have been actioned then and not now. The only reason they are doing so now is some angry kid with a blog is effectively holding them hostage...
It's almost as if he's holding CCP in a state of discomfort in order to get what he wants.
Almost like.
Dare I say it?
Psychological abuse?! AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3361
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:58:00 -
[453] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:I'm listening to the recording myself and this is VERY analogous to a few of my own experiences of gank victims I've invited onto coms and tried to calmly explain why they lost their ship. At what point in that person's rage is it me harassing them? I think it is clear from the very fact that you raise the question that (a) your intent -- to explain, not to abuse -- would be obvious and also (b) you would have the presence of mind to recognize that you weren't helping and end the conversation.
As anyone who has started a petition knows, EVE GM and Community Reps are battle-scarred veterans with hearts of coal, their bodies increasingly deformed by the horrific demands of their jobs (CCP Guard, for example, was over 2 meters tall when he started at CCP). You would have to work hard to convince them you are a blackguard worthy of banishment to the outer darkness (ie: World of Warcraft or Hello Kitty Online).
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Trebor, is freedom of speech inviolate or are you one of those that believes in 'hate speech'? I do not agree with the concept of absolute free speech (for example, the right to shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre, or incite a crowd to violence); rather, any limitations on speech should ideally be limited to those intended to prevent harm and encourage rational discourse. I recognize this is a horrible grey area, and that well-intentioned people can disagree on where to draw the lines.
Regardless, you -- as a staunch defender of absolute free speech, no matter how much it hurts -- will have absolutely no problem with me making a statement of my position on the harrassment opinion.
Quote:At it's core Sohkar willingly took part in a bonus round on Teamspeak (and hung in there) in the context of EvE meta gameplay, in pursuit of moar EvE assets (or their recovery). That is IN GAME Trebor. I beg to differ. IMHO, Sohkar was psychologically trapped -- read up on concepts like sunk costs -- and his tormentors took advantage of this.
EVE is CCP's game, and they set the rules of what is and is not acceptable in-game and in its penumbra based on their business interests -- as a believer in absolute free speech, I am sure you also believe in pure laissez-faire capitalism. If you don't like it, you are free to stop doing business with them. But you probably won't -- your own sunk costs will keep you playing, despite the agonizing existential despair you must now be feeling.
Feel free to prove me wrong by quitting -- in which case, can I have your stuff? Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5530
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:59:00 -
[454] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Please feel free to discuss this statement in this thread, however please also be aware of the forum rules, and our rules on discussion of warnings and bans. Above all, lets keep it civil and constructive. Thanks again. My issue is that we already knew everything you posted. Obviously, if its extreme enough, CCP will take action against real life harrassment extended from Eve. Nobody disputes that. The drama is over the vagueness of real life harrassment. The ideal solution would be to give specific information over when the line is crossed, that way future drama like this can be quickly closed down by simply citing that information. As it stands, even if the bonus room is banned, all that really shows is that if you generate enough drama over something, it will be banned. The problem with that is two fold.
As Mr. Epeen pointed out, if you take away all discretion in these situation someone will usually find a loophole in the hard and fast rule that they can exploit.
You can't really strictly define some things to begin with. Even in this situation we have people defining "torture" as being politely asked to sing the gummy bear song... and claiming Sohkar was harassed even though he has bluntly made a public statement saying that was blatantly untrue.
CCP needs to be able to use their own discretion on where to draw the line.
We predicted from the start that E1 would get at least a temp ban, and possibly Sohkar would as well. The next time something similar to this comes up the response could easily be completely different depending on the circumstances. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 18:59:00 -
[455] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:voetius wrote:Bing Bangboom wrote: Erotica 1 reports that he cannot log into his account and believes himself to have been banned. He says he has had no communication with CCP explaining if its temporary or permanent. He also says
"I do regret that CCP did not provide me one iota of guidance as I repeatedly requested in forums regarding bonus rounds and the like. I have been handed a rather long rope (the sandbox) to metaphorically hang myself with. "
So, it may be that everyone is now safe from having someone talk them into giving them their Eve stuff and then making fun of them when they do it. Eve is saved.
BBB The problem with these sort of issues is that people will spin them whatever way suits their prejudices as seen in the recent threadnaught. In the case of the quote above, if CCP had stepped in and laid down the law then there could quite well have been more outrage for "interfering in the sandbox, blah blah". It's a no-win situation in many ways. Yeah right.. CCP banned Mittani for a month, then burn Jita started. Are you serious.. these bans are only for the press. We are free to fuk up anybody we want.. only rule is to be outside of game ;) We are safe now :)
Hell yeah!! No limits we are free to be the scumbags we were born to be. Any ideas on how I should set up my psychological abuse "scam"? I was just going to copy erotica 1's set up since that works out so well in finding the weak ones with problems and then manipulating them for your enjoyment but that wouldn't be very original.
|
Vilar Diin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Li3 Federation
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:00:00 -
[456] - Quote
"We need our Evil Emperors (TheMittani), our Tywin Lannister (Baltec1) and the other assorted scoundrels out there, we even need the phosphorescent green mold that accumulates under many space urinals (The New Order).
What we don't need is a Hannibal Lector mind humping his prey before eating their liver with a nice Chianti, it's not good press, it's not good for player retention and it is not good for the community.
That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.
Our Hannibal is obviously extremely intelligent and he can change his act if he chooses to, so banning, not the best option in my opinion. He did a disgusting thing, but many things I see in this game, particularly in this thread, which seems to have attracted the worst of the worst in this game, sicken me. However, it's not my game to say what is acceptable; CCP and the community will have to decide." -Drone16
Have to agree here. I would like to think that the person "roleplaying" a truly reprehensible individual in game is not some sort of "spread the lotion on itself..." kind of guy in real life.
After all, the game is Rated:Teen, not 45 with peanut butter issues
I like the stance CCP took, keep the douchebaggery, but let everyone know there are limits that they will determine on a case by case. |
Morihei Akachi
Nishida Corporation
47
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:00:00 -
[457] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
you mean, the activity that had been going on for months, and months, and months that nobody cared about didn't bring attention until some one made a sensationalised article about it on a well trafficked blog?
i am sincerely shocked.
Well since Erotica 1 has been dragging CCP's name through the mud for almost a year with Bonus Rounds, maybe some of our forum participants can name some "victims" other than Sohkar? You know since the whole thing is like a really big deal and all, and not just this one incident. Sure: check out https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=274543 |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
350
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:01:00 -
[458] - Quote
I thought the point of this game is that there are no real rules.
That its all grey area? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
205
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:02:00 -
[459] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Bing Bangboom wrote: Erotica 1 reports that he cannot log into his account and believes himself to have been banned. He says he has had no communication with CCP explaining if its temporary or permanent. He also says
"I do regret that CCP did not provide me one iota of guidance as I repeatedly requested in forums regarding bonus rounds and the like. I have been handed a rather long rope (the sandbox) to metaphorically hang myself with. "
So, it may be that everyone is now safe from having someone talk them into giving them their Eve stuff and then making fun of them when they do it. Eve is saved.
BBB You forgot that it's pretty much guaranteed CCP saw the Bonus Room article on Miner Bumping ages ago.
Yet another 'Kristallllll ASSumption' with no basis in reality. Kind of sad you feel the need to do that so often. "If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
ChickenPox
0x1
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:02:00 -
[460] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote: Players like me and the large majority who have posted recently are very glad this was brought to our attention. I had no idea this kind of psychological abuse was going on.
Psychological abuse? The guy could have disconnected at any time. His own greed kept him going. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
350
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:02:00 -
[461] - Quote
Vilar Diin wrote:"We need our Evil Emperors (TheMittani), our Tywin Lannister (Baltec1) and the other assorted scoundrels out there, we even need the phosphorescent green mold that accumulates under many space urinals (The New Order).
What we don't need is a Hannibal Lector mind humping his prey before eating their liver with a nice Chianti, it's not good press, it's not good for player retention and it is not good for the community.
That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.
Our Hannibal is obviously extremely intelligent and he can change his act if he chooses to, so banning, not the best option in my opinion. He did a disgusting thing, but many things I see in this game, particularly in this thread, which seems to have attracted the worst of the worst in this game, sicken me. However, it's not my game to say what is acceptable; CCP and the community will have to decide." -Drone16
Have to agree here. I would like to think that the person "roleplaying" a truly reprehensible individual in game is not some sort of "spread the lotion on itself..." kind of guy in real life.
After all, the game is Rated:Teen, not 45 with peanut butter issues
I like the stance CCP took, keep the douchebaggery, but let everyone know there are limits that they will determine on a case by case.
They did? I read the OP and it looks more like they said "business as usual". What changed in the ToS/EULA because of this?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Salvos Rhoska
849
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:03:00 -
[462] - Quote
Have you actually read the OP?
------------ |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4556
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:03:00 -
[463] - Quote
As I predicted, the weaseling segment of the community wants a clearly defined line (to circumvent) and CCP is showing pure genius in not providing one and stating intent to judge each case individually. (Thereby causing much grief to those who want to cause much grief)
That segment of the community cannot claim that CCP is not in touch with them. Heck they should be saying "ah well played, masters." and move on.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Salvos Rhoska
850
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:05:00 -
[464] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Hell, I dont even get why this is NEWS Go read the 380 page threadzilla for starters. ------------ |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
117
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:05:00 -
[465] - Quote
So E1 may or may not have been temp or perma banned over a harassment complaint that may or may not have even been filed by a player who also may or may not have been temp or perma banned for making threats, and CCP just restates their same position they've always had.
I'm glad this has been cleared up. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5530
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:05:00 -
[466] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:I'm listening to the recording myself and this is VERY analogous to a few of my own experiences of gank victims I've invited onto coms and tried to calmly explain why they lost their ship. At what point in that person's rage is it me harassing them? I think it is clear from the very fact that you raise the question that (a) your intent -- to explain, not to abuse -- would be obvious and also (b) you would have the presence of mind to recognize that you weren't helping and end the conversation. As anyone who has started a petition knows, EVE GM and Community Reps are battle-scarred veterans with hearts of coal, their bodies increasingly deformed by the horrific demands of their jobs (CCP Guard, for example, was over 2 meters tall when he started at CCP). You would have to work hard to convince them you are a blackguard worthy of banishment to the outer darkness (ie: World of Warcraft or Hello Kitty Online). Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Trebor, is freedom of speech inviolate or are you one of those that believes in 'hate speech'? I do not agree with the concept of absolute free speech (for example, the right to shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre, or incite a crowd to violence); rather, any limitations on speech should ideally be limited to those intended to prevent harm and encourage rational discourse. I recognize this is a horrible grey area, and that well-intentioned people can disagree on where to draw the lines. Regardless, you -- as a staunch defender of absolute free speech, no matter how much it hurts -- will have absolutely no problem with me making a statement of my position on the harrassment opinion. Quote:At it's core Sohkar willingly took part in a bonus round on Teamspeak (and hung in there) in the context of EvE meta gameplay, in pursuit of moar EvE assets (or their recovery). That is IN GAME Trebor. I beg to differ. IMHO, Sohkar was psychologically trapped -- read up on concepts like sunk costs -- and his tormentors took advantage of this. EVE is CCP's game, and they set the rules of what is and is not acceptable in-game and in its penumbra based on their business interests -- as a believer in absolute free speech, I am sure you also believe in pure laissez-faire capitalism. If you don't like it, you are free to stop doing business with them. But you probably won't -- your own sunk costs will keep you playing, despite the agonizing existential despair you must now be feeling. Feel free to prove me wrong by quitting -- in which case, can I have your stuff? Jesus buddy, how long do you plan on protecting Sohkar to death? He's already told you that you're waaaay off base, and have done far more harm that good.
Time to step away. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
351
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:06:00 -
[467] - Quote
Can someone please explain to me why this is new in this game?
Its EVE, CCP, masters of the HTFU. Why is this suddenly more bad than anything else that ever happens in this game?
I literally stumbled upon this like 5 am this morning. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
205
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:07:00 -
[468] - Quote
Vilar Diin wrote:"we even need the phosphorescent green mold that accumulates under many space urinals (The New Order).
You almost made me shoot coffee out my nose - too funny! "If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
145
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:07:00 -
[469] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:
Above all, lets keep it civil and constructive.
Thats sarcastic, right? OK, literally just started reading about this last night, what heppened? As far as Ive read, some stupid ass got scammed, then got scammed more... Um its EVE. I dont understand the issue
http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room
It has links to most of the relevant info as well as presents a LOT of info not covered elsewhere. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14604
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:08:00 -
[470] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:Malcanis wrote:http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?16342-The-Bonus-Round&p=1053833&viewfull=1#post1053833 Did anyone told you that you need a big Dislike button? A really BIG one!
The subject has come up once or twice.
Still, as my dad always used to say: if you're making stupid people angry, you're probably doing something right.
1 Kings 12:11
|
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
351
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:08:00 -
[471] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Hell, I dont even get why this is NEWS Go read the 380 page threadzilla for starters.
You dont know the subject enough that you can explain it on your own without posting to another thread for reference?
Im cioming into this new and trying to see whats so important about ONE scam in a game about scamming http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Vilar Diin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Li3 Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:09:00 -
[472] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Vilar Diin wrote:"We need our Evil Emperors (TheMittani), our Tywin Lannister (Baltec1) and the other assorted scoundrels out there, we even need the phosphorescent green mold that accumulates under many space urinals (The New Order).
What we don't need is a Hannibal Lector mind humping his prey before eating their liver with a nice Chianti, it's not good press, it's not good for player retention and it is not good for the community.
That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.
Our Hannibal is obviously extremely intelligent and he can change his act if he chooses to, so banning, not the best option in my opinion. He did a disgusting thing, but many things I see in this game, particularly in this thread, which seems to have attracted the worst of the worst in this game, sicken me. However, it's not my game to say what is acceptable; CCP and the community will have to decide." -Drone16
Have to agree here. I would like to think that the person "roleplaying" a truly reprehensible individual in game is not some sort of "spread the lotion on itself..." kind of guy in real life.
After all, the game is Rated:Teen, not 45 with peanut butter issues
I like the stance CCP took, keep the douchebaggery, but let everyone know there are limits that they will determine on a case by case. They did? I read the OP and it looks more like they said "business as usual". What changed in the ToS/EULA because of this?
Never fear they have top men on it... |
Dave Stark
4813
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:10:00 -
[473] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Malcanis wrote:http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?16342-The-Bonus-Round&p=1053833&viewfull=1#post1053833 Did anyone told you that you need a big Dislike button? A really BIG one! The subject has come up once or twice. Still, as my dad always used to say: if you're making stupid people angry, you're probably doing something right.
guess erotica 1 is doing something very right, then.
then again, since teg whipped up the witch hunt, maybe it's teg doing something right... |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1267
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:10:00 -
[474] - Quote
The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. The Tears Must Flow |
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:10:00 -
[475] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:
Players like me and the large majority who have posted recently are very glad this was brought to our attention. I had no idea this kind of psychological abuse was going on.
I'm still unaware of any "psychological abuse" and have been eagerly awaiting someone to point out such to me for... days now.
I feel sorry for you. You might consider taking some terapy sessions and get an evaluation.. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
145
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:11:00 -
[476] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Still, as my dad always used to say: if you're making stupid people angry, you're probably doing something right.
Best summary of the Bonus Round from anyone on the CSM yet. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
351
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:12:00 -
[477] - Quote
I dont get why scamming someone stupid enough to give you all their stuff is so bad -.-
You have to be stupid enough to give them all your stuff. Thats rule number one breaking right there. Move on lol http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1155
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:12:00 -
[478] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote:Xuixien wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
you mean, the activity that had been going on for months, and months, and months that nobody cared about didn't bring attention until some one made a sensationalised article about it on a well trafficked blog?
i am sincerely shocked.
Well since Erotica 1 has been dragging CCP's name through the mud for almost a year with Bonus Rounds, maybe some of our forum participants can name some "victims" other than Sohkar? You know since the whole thing is like a really big deal and all, and not just this one incident. Sure: check out https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=274543
So 2 examples out of literally hundreds of Bonus Rounds.
Cool dude, you have a rock solid case. AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
145
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:12:00 -
[479] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Hell, I dont even get why this is NEWS Go read the 380 page threadzilla for starters. You dont know the subject enough that you can explain it on your own without posting to another thread for reference? Im cioming into this new and trying to see whats so important about ONE scam in a game about scamming
http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room my article on the matter. Covers everything. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
378
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:13:00 -
[480] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players.
Since Xuixien declined to answer when she similarly lambasted Ripard's blog, let's try this metaphorical question on you:
So, when you have a festering splinter, do you blame your pain receptors or do you try to remove the splinter & infection? |
|
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
117
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:14:00 -
[481] - Quote
Vilar Diin wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Vilar Diin wrote:"We need our Evil Emperors (TheMittani), our Tywin Lannister (Baltec1) and the other assorted scoundrels out there, we even need the phosphorescent green mold that accumulates under many space urinals (The New Order).
What we don't need is a Hannibal Lector mind humping his prey before eating their liver with a nice Chianti, it's not good press, it's not good for player retention and it is not good for the community.
That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.
Our Hannibal is obviously extremely intelligent and he can change his act if he chooses to, so banning, not the best option in my opinion. He did a disgusting thing, but many things I see in this game, particularly in this thread, which seems to have attracted the worst of the worst in this game, sicken me. However, it's not my game to say what is acceptable; CCP and the community will have to decide." -Drone16
Have to agree here. I would like to think that the person "roleplaying" a truly reprehensible individual in game is not some sort of "spread the lotion on itself..." kind of guy in real life.
After all, the game is Rated:Teen, not 45 with peanut butter issues
I like the stance CCP took, keep the douchebaggery, but let everyone know there are limits that they will determine on a case by case. They did? I read the OP and it looks more like they said "business as usual". What changed in the ToS/EULA because of this? Never fear they have top men on it...
TOP men... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14604
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:14:00 -
[482] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I thought the point of this game is that there are no real rules.
That its all grey area?
The point of the game is that it's also supposed to be a game.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
351
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:14:00 -
[483] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Hell, I dont even get why this is NEWS Go read the 380 page threadzilla for starters. You dont know the subject enough that you can explain it on your own without posting to another thread for reference? Im cioming into this new and trying to see whats so important about ONE scam in a game about scamming http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room my article on the matter. Covers everything.
I read that article. Looks like the guy getting scammed was a ******. I still dont see the issue.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:15:00 -
[484] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. Since Xuixien declined to answer when she similarly lambasted Ripard's blog, let's try this metaphorical question on you: So, when you have a festering splinter, do you blame your pain receptors or do you try to remove the splinter & infection?
Well, we all know you don't grab a chainsaw, soak it in alcohol, light it on fire and cut the splinter out!
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
351
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:15:00 -
[485] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I thought the point of this game is that there are no real rules.
That its all grey area? The point of the game is that it's also supposed to be a game.
The game being fun to only one side of the game IS about 90% of this game imo
The miner isnt having fun when he's ganked but thats not an issue in this game
THATS the main point OF this game as far as Ive EVER known EVE. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1156
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:16:00 -
[486] - Quote
Wulfy Johnson wrote:Xuixien wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:
Players like me and the large majority who have posted recently are very glad this was brought to our attention. I had no idea this kind of psychological abuse was going on.
I'm still unaware of any "psychological abuse" and have been eagerly awaiting someone to point out such to me for... days now. I feel sorry for you. You might consider taking some terapy sessions and get an evaluation..
Ad hominem? Okay then. AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:16:00 -
[487] - Quote
voetius wrote:Bing Bangboom wrote: Erotica 1 reports that he cannot log into his account and believes himself to have been banned. He says he has had no communication with CCP explaining if its temporary or permanent. He also says
"I do regret that CCP did not provide me one iota of guidance as I repeatedly requested in forums regarding bonus rounds and the like. I have been handed a rather long rope (the sandbox) to metaphorically hang myself with. "
So, it may be that everyone is now safe from having someone talk them into giving them their Eve stuff and then making fun of them when they do it. Eve is saved.
BBB The problem with these sort of issues is that people will spin them whatever way suits their prejudices as seen in the recent threadnaught. In the case of the quote above, if CCP had stepped in and laid down the law then there could quite well have been more outrage for "interfering in the sandbox, blah blah". It's a no-win situation in many ways. Right, and some people have interpreted Sohkar's presence in TS last night as some kind of endorsement of what happened to him. I had a feeling they'd do that. Maybe they actually *have* learned something from this, but admitting it here...well, that might be a stretch, given the deeply entrenched positions.
I was glad to see him on TS, but not for those reasons. The only knowledge most of us have of Sohkar is that ghastly two-hour meltdown, and I for one was relieved to see him not only unharmed but holding his own against the very people who put him through that. He didn't kiss their asses for one second, and I was smiling about that. |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:17:00 -
[488] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players.
Yeah god forbid he raises awareness that this level of abuse is going on in the game. How dare him open one of the unseen doors that many of us have not seen. What a a hole for showing the community the type of low life sociopath scum who are attempting to run for CSM that have been abusing people most of who are not mentally stable to begin with behind the scenes for so long and getting away with it. I mean who does he think he is??? |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
378
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:17:00 -
[489] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. Since Xuixien declined to answer when she similarly lambasted Ripard's blog, let's try this metaphorical question on you: So, when you have a festering splinter, do you blame your pain receptors or do you try to remove the splinter & infection? Well, we all know you don't grab a chainsaw, soak it in alcohol, light it on fire and cut the splinter out!
I LOL'd, seriously. |
Kaius Fero
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:17:00 -
[490] - Quote
Here is a direct question to you as a fail politician. Why I should vote you.. or anybody else? So far your an useless nothing, the whole CSM is a joke. Dafuq are guys doing there except drinking shiat with ccp? Look at the reprocessing blog.. you were owned by the major null sec alliances and you are nothing more like a pet. So remind me.. why I need to vote for csm?
I can scam and fuk up people without your support nor ccp EULA &shiat.. really.. give me a really good reason why ANY eve players should vote! |
|
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1156
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:18:00 -
[491] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. Since Xuixien declined to answer when she similarly lambasted Ripard's blog, let's try this metaphorical question on you: So, when you have a festering splinter, do you blame your pain receptors or do you try to remove the splinter & infection?
Here, let me give you a better analogy:
If you're playing rugby and someone tackles you and you skin your knee, who should you really be mad at: The person who tackles you or the guy who rubs salt on the wound? AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:18:00 -
[492] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:voetius wrote:Bing Bangboom wrote: Erotica 1 reports that he cannot log into his account and believes himself to have been banned. He says he has had no communication with CCP explaining if its temporary or permanent. He also says
"I do regret that CCP did not provide me one iota of guidance as I repeatedly requested in forums regarding bonus rounds and the like. I have been handed a rather long rope (the sandbox) to metaphorically hang myself with. "
So, it may be that everyone is now safe from having someone talk them into giving them their Eve stuff and then making fun of them when they do it. Eve is saved.
BBB The problem with these sort of issues is that people will spin them whatever way suits their prejudices as seen in the recent threadnaught. In the case of the quote above, if CCP had stepped in and laid down the law then there could quite well have been more outrage for "interfering in the sandbox, blah blah". It's a no-win situation in many ways. Right, and some people have interpreted Sohkar's presence in TS last night as some kind of endorsement of what happened to him. I had a feeling they'd do that. Maybe they actually *have* learned something from this, but admitting it here...well, that might be a stretch, given the deeply entrenched positions. I was glad to see him on TS, but not for those reasons. The only knowledge most of us have of Sohkar is that ghastly two-hour meltdown, and I for one was relieved to see him not only unharmed but holding his own against the very people who put him through that. He didn't kiss their asses for one second, and I was smiling about that.
We've all learned that CCP is willing to bend to uninformed public pressure. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5530
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:19:00 -
[493] - Quote
Vilar Diin wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Vilar Diin wrote:"We need our Evil Emperors (TheMittani), our Tywin Lannister (Baltec1) and the other assorted scoundrels out there, we even need the phosphorescent green mold that accumulates under many space urinals (The New Order).
What we don't need is a Hannibal Lector mind humping his prey before eating their liver with a nice Chianti, it's not good press, it's not good for player retention and it is not good for the community.
That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.
Our Hannibal is obviously extremely intelligent and he can change his act if he chooses to, so banning, not the best option in my opinion. He did a disgusting thing, but many things I see in this game, particularly in this thread, which seems to have attracted the worst of the worst in this game, sicken me. However, it's not my game to say what is acceptable; CCP and the community will have to decide." -Drone16
Have to agree here. I would like to think that the person "roleplaying" a truly reprehensible individual in game is not some sort of "spread the lotion on itself..." kind of guy in real life.
After all, the game is Rated:Teen, not 45 with peanut butter issues
I like the stance CCP took, keep the douchebaggery, but let everyone know there are limits that they will determine on a case by case. They did? I read the OP and it looks more like they said "business as usual". What changed in the ToS/EULA because of this? Never fear they have top men on it...
Who specifically?
TOP...... MEN.....
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:19:00 -
[494] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. Yeah god forbid he raises awareness that this level of abuse is going on in the game. How dare him open one of the unseen doors that many of us have not seen. What a a hole for showing the community the type of low life sociopath scum who are attempting to run for CSM that have been abusing people most of who are not mentally stable to begin with behind the scenes for so long and getting away with it. I mean who does he think he is???
Can you stop trolling. We all know the complain is about his rhetoric and not "exposing" something. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
351
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:19:00 -
[495] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:Here is a direct question to you as a fail politician. Why I should vote you.. or anybody else? So far your an useless nothing, the whole CSM is a joke. Dafuq are guys doing there except drinking shiat with ccp? Look at the reprocessing blog.. you were owned by the major null sec alliances and you are nothing more like a pet. So remind me.. why I need to vote for csm? I can scam and fuk up people without your support nor ccp EULA &shiat.. really.. give me a really good reason why ANY eve players should vote!
The CSMs been a joke since the beginning lol the whole REASON for it in the first place was to go to Iceland and watchdog CCP so that another T20 couldnt happen. That was impossible to start with lol http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4559
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:20:00 -
[496] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I thought the point of this game is that there are no real rules.
That its all grey area? The point of the game is that it's also supposed to be a game.
Yeah. A game about space ships, not gaming the rules. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
351
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:20:00 -
[497] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. Since Xuixien declined to answer when she similarly lambasted Ripard's blog, let's try this metaphorical question on you: So, when you have a festering splinter, do you blame your pain receptors or do you try to remove the splinter & infection? Here, let me give you a better analogy: If you're playing rugby and someone tackles you and you skin your knee, who should you really be mad at: The person who tackles you or the guy who rubs salt on the wound?
Whats rugby?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Tasha Saisima
State War Academy Caldari State
84
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:21:00 -
[498] - Quote
Erotica1 should be the next Community Spotlight imo |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
206
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:21:00 -
[499] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
Still, as my dad always used to say: if you're making stupid people angry, you're probably doing something right.
Bet it made you angry.
"If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
351
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:21:00 -
[500] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I thought the point of this game is that there are no real rules.
That its all grey area? The point of the game is that it's also supposed to be a game. Yeah. A game about space ships, not gaming the rules.
No; thats THE GAME
Thats always BEEN the game. The one that bends the rules the best wins. Thats how its always been since I joined, nine years ago lol http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Vilar Diin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Li3 Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:21:00 -
[501] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Vilar Diin wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Vilar Diin wrote:"We need our Evil Emperors (TheMittani), our Tywin Lannister (Baltec1) and the other assorted scoundrels out there, we even need the phosphorescent green mold that accumulates under many space urinals (The New Order).
What we don't need is a Hannibal Lector mind humping his prey before eating their liver with a nice Chianti, it's not good press, it's not good for player retention and it is not good for the community.
That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.
Our Hannibal is obviously extremely intelligent and he can change his act if he chooses to, so banning, not the best option in my opinion. He did a disgusting thing, but many things I see in this game, particularly in this thread, which seems to have attracted the worst of the worst in this game, sicken me. However, it's not my game to say what is acceptable; CCP and the community will have to decide." -Drone16
Have to agree here. I would like to think that the person "roleplaying" a truly reprehensible individual in game is not some sort of "spread the lotion on itself..." kind of guy in real life.
After all, the game is Rated:Teen, not 45 with peanut butter issues
I like the stance CCP took, keep the douchebaggery, but let everyone know there are limits that they will determine on a case by case. They did? I read the OP and it looks more like they said "business as usual". What changed in the ToS/EULA because of this? Never fear they have top men on it... Who specifically? TOP...... MEN.....
|
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1156
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:22:00 -
[502] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Xuixien wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. Since Xuixien declined to answer when she similarly lambasted Ripard's blog, let's try this metaphorical question on you: So, when you have a festering splinter, do you blame your pain receptors or do you try to remove the splinter & infection? Here, let me give you a better analogy: If you're playing rugby and someone tackles you and you skin your knee, who should you really be mad at: The person who tackles you or the guy who rubs salt on the wound? Whats rugby?
Rugby. Would you kindly read this Wikipedia page over TeamSpeak please?
AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
351
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:22:00 -
[503] - Quote
Tasha Saisima wrote:Erotica1 should be the next Community Spotlight imo
Erotica1 for CSM Chairman! http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2838
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:22:00 -
[504] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Have you actually read the OP? Yes, I have. And it basically says "don't make people sad out of game". It explains no actual lines for what is considered tolerable and intolerable behaviour, and it offers no explanation for how they will verify third party information. They buckled to public demand, that's all this is. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4557
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:22:00 -
[505] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: The CSMs been a joke since the beginning lol the whole REASON for it in the first place was to go to Iceland and watchdog CCP so that another T20 couldnt happen. That was impossible to start with lol
I would never disagree with that. Ever.
Make a thread about it and I'll join in. But this thread is about something else entirely.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14606
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:24:00 -
[506] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I dont get why scamming someone stupid enough to give you all their stuff is so bad -.-
You have to be stupid enough to give them all your stuff. Thats rule number one breaking right there. Move on lol
CCP have no problem whatsover with scamming. They were extremely clear on this when we discussed the matter with them.
Suicide ganking, piracy, awoxing, scamming. spying, propaganda, lying, 0.01ing and so on are all perfectly fine. I personally went to considerable trouble to make sure that my deep concerns on those activities were addressed, and CCP's answers were 100% on the money as far as I'm concerned.
This. Is. Not. About. The. Scam.
It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
206
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:24:00 -
[507] - Quote
Kristalll wrote: We all know the complain is about his rhetoric and not "exposing" something.
You just can't stop trying to put your ASSumptions out there as fact can you? Its oddly fascinating if annoying. "If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Kaius Fero
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:25:00 -
[508] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Here is a direct question to you as a fail politician. Why I should vote you.. or anybody else? So far your an useless nothing, the whole CSM is a joke. Dafuq are guys doing there except drinking shiat with ccp? Look at the reprocessing blog.. you were owned by the major null sec alliances and you are nothing more like a pet. So remind me.. why I need to vote for csm? I can scam and fuk up people without your support nor ccp EULA &shiat.. really.. give me a really good reason why ANY eve players should vote! The CSMs been a joke since the beginning lol the whole REASON for it in the first place was to go to Iceland and watchdog CCP so that another T20 couldnt happen. That was impossible to start with lol Well.. I hate politicians with a passion. Good news is that in EVE I can kill them over an over.. and over. Maybe bring them in a glory hole with a lot of prizes. Malcanis.. do you like mayo? |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:25:00 -
[509] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. Yeah god forbid he raises awareness that this level of abuse is going on in the game. How dare him open one of the unseen doors that many of us have not seen. What a a hole for showing the community the type of low life sociopath scum who are attempting to run for CSM that have been abusing people most of who are not mentally stable to begin with behind the scenes for so long and getting away with it. I mean who does he think he is??? Can you stop trolling. We all know the complain is about his rhetoric and not "exposing" something.
When someone disagrees with your point of view accuse them of trolling. Got it. "We all know" You are great at speaking for everyone. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5531
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:26:00 -
[510] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Xuixien wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. Since Xuixien declined to answer when she similarly lambasted Ripard's blog, let's try this metaphorical question on you: So, when you have a festering splinter, do you blame your pain receptors or do you try to remove the splinter & infection? Here, let me give you a better analogy: If you're playing rugby and someone tackles you and you skin your knee, who should you really be mad at: The person who tackles you or the guy who rubs salt on the wound? Whats rugby? Rugby. Would you kindly read this Wikipedia page over TeamSpeak please? GASP: Burn this witch!
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14613
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:26:00 -
[511] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: The CSMs been a joke since the beginning lol the whole REASON for it in the first place was to go to Iceland and watchdog CCP so that another T20 couldnt happen. That was impossible to start with lol
I would never disagree with that. Ever. Make a thread about it and I'll join in. But this thread is about something else entirely. Mr Epeen
I was extremely concerned to make sure that erotica1 got due process. You may recall that I took considerable heat for speaking up for his right to fair treatment.
After considerable dialogue with CCP's community team (that was the 2 days when we all went quiet and were "doing nothing" I came away fully satisfied that CCP's intended action was fair, justified and within their previously stated rules.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
378
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:27:00 -
[512] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. Since Xuixien declined to answer when she similarly lambasted Ripard's blog, let's try this metaphorical question on you: So, when you have a festering splinter, do you blame your pain receptors or do you try to remove the splinter & infection? Here, let me give you a better analogy: If you're playing rugby and someone tackles you and you skin your knee, who should you really be mad at: The person who tackles you or the guy who rubs salt on the wound?
Hmmm, it was always the water soaked magic sponge when I played. However, I wouldn't be angry with either, so long as the tackle was within the rules of the game (the ref decides that) and my trainer had at least a rudimentry understanding of first aid.
|
Vilar Diin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Li3 Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:27:00 -
[513] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I dont get why scamming someone stupid enough to give you all their stuff is so bad -.-
You have to be stupid enough to give them all your stuff. Thats rule number one breaking right there. Move on lol CCP have no problem whatsover with scamming. They were extremely clear on this when we discussed the matter with them. Suicide ganking, piracy, awoxing, scamming. spying, propaganda, lying, 0.01ing and so on are all perfectly fine. I personally went to considerable trouble to make sure that my deep concerns on those activities were addressed, and CCP's answers were 100% on the money as far as I'm concerned.This. Is. Not. About. The. Scam. It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
I like you. Can we keep him? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
352
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:27:00 -
[514] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
Then talking to them on TS was evil?
Like I said, I guess I just dont get it
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14613
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:27:00 -
[515] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Here is a direct question to you as a fail politician. Why I should vote you.. or anybody else? So far your an useless nothing, the whole CSM is a joke. Dafuq are guys doing there except drinking shiat with ccp? Look at the reprocessing blog.. you were owned by the major null sec alliances and you are nothing more like a pet. So remind me.. why I need to vote for csm? I can scam and fuk up people without your support nor ccp EULA &shiat.. really.. give me a really good reason why ANY eve players should vote! The CSMs been a joke since the beginning lol the whole REASON for it in the first place was to go to Iceland and watchdog CCP so that another T20 couldnt happen. That was impossible to start with lol Well.. I hate politicians with a passion. Good news is that in EVE I can kill them over an over.. and over. Maybe bring them in a glory hole with a lot of prizes. Malcanis.. do you like mayo?
Mayo is delicious. Only make it with really fresh free range eggs and good quality oil, though. Choose your oil according to what your mayo is going to be used for.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
117
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:27:00 -
[516] - Quote
Minerbumping.com is saying E1 has been permabanned. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2839
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:28:00 -
[517] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:As I predicted, the weaseling segment of the community wants a clearly defined line (to circumvent) and CCP is showing pure genius in not providing one and stating intent to judge each case individually. (Thereby causing much grief to those who want to cause much grief)
That segment of the community cannot claim that CCP is not in touch with them. Heck they should be saying "ah well played, masters." and move on. You won't be so happy with those unclear lines when you give an offhand remark and get banned because the person you said it to has a sad. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14613
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:28:00 -
[518] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it
Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Pew Terror
Green Associates TITANS.
204
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:30:00 -
[519] - Quote
For everyone not understanding this post:
They said that you just should not be a RL tard to people or face consequences. If you can't judge wethere you are being a tard at any given moment, you are probaby being one at that very moment and was most of your life. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
352
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:30:00 -
[520] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: The CSMs been a joke since the beginning lol the whole REASON for it in the first place was to go to Iceland and watchdog CCP so that another T20 couldnt happen. That was impossible to start with lol
I would never disagree with that. Ever. Make a thread about it and I'll join in. But this thread is about something else entirely. Mr Epeen I was extremely concerned to make sure that erotica1 got due process. You may recall that I took considerable heat for speaking up for his right to fair treatment. After considerable dialogue with CCP's community team (that was the 2 days when we all went quiet and were "doing nothing" I came away fully satisfied that CCP's intended action was fair, justified and within their previously stated rules.
Again, what was changed in the rules that reflects their new stance on this "evil" being against the rules? In the OP, as I already said, they seem to say "these are the ToS/EULA, dont break them" but they dont say what was broken, or what was updated.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
207
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:31:00 -
[521] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: I guess I just dont get it
I think that may have been noticed. "If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Kaius Fero
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:31:00 -
[522] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Here is a direct question to you as a fail politician. Why I should vote you.. or anybody else? So far your an useless nothing, the whole CSM is a joke. Dafuq are guys doing there except drinking shiat with ccp? Look at the reprocessing blog.. you were owned by the major null sec alliances and you are nothing more like a pet. So remind me.. why I need to vote for csm? I can scam and fuk up people without your support nor ccp EULA &shiat.. really.. give me a really good reason why ANY eve players should vote! The CSMs been a joke since the beginning lol the whole REASON for it in the first place was to go to Iceland and watchdog CCP so that another T20 couldnt happen. That was impossible to start with lol Well.. I hate politicians with a passion. Good news is that in EVE I can kill them over an over.. and over. Maybe bring them in a glory hole with a lot of prizes. Malcanis.. do you like mayo? Mayo is delicious. Only make it with really fresh free range eggs and good quality oil, though. Choose your oil according to what your mayo is going to be used for. Oil! That's important if you have no ****! But hey. we can use ICE. Yes.. I'm a pervert :( |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:31:00 -
[523] - Quote
Vilar Diin wrote:"We need our Evil Emperors (TheMittani), our Tywin Lannister (Baltec1) and the other assorted scoundrels out there, we even need the phosphorescent green mold that accumulates under many space urinals (The New Order).
What we don't need is a Hannibal Lector mind humping his prey before eating their liver with a nice Chianti, it's not good press, it's not good for player retention and it is not good for the community.
That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.
Our Hannibal is obviously extremely intelligent and he can change his act if he chooses to, so banning, not the best option in my opinion. He did a disgusting thing, but many things I see in this game, particularly in this thread, which seems to have attracted the worst of the worst in this game, sicken me. However, it's not my game to say what is acceptable; CCP and the community will have to decide." -Drone16
Have to agree here. I would like to think that the person "roleplaying" a truly reprehensible individual in game is not some sort of "spread the lotion on itself..." kind of guy in real life.
After all, the game is Rated:Teen, not 45 with peanut butter issues
I like the stance CCP took, keep the douchebaggery, but let everyone know there are limits that they will determine on a case by case. I'm hoping they actually will learn something from this, but I don't expect them to come here and admit it. But hope springs eternal.
I don't know how many people have listened to the stream from last night, but at one point, it came out that the player behind Erotica 1 was talking to Sohkar that same night under one of his other alts, beancounter Jaynara. I haven't listened again to the audio, but my recollection is that Jaynara was complaining about having lost money to Erotica and Sohkar actually volunteered to try to get it back for him. Not only that, Sohkar told Jaynara he planned to PLEX up to take Erotica on.
I'll have to find the audio and listen to that part again to confirm the details, but it'd be interesting to hear more about how that whole thing went down.
Also, it sounds like Ero may have caught a ban of some sort, so I guess he won't be able to answer here, but if he does do an AMA on reddit, one question I'd have is how it felt to know that the guy you're scamming and pushing to the point of a meltdown is there because he's trying to HELP one of your alts.
|
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
38
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:32:00 -
[524] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:The only EvE Online player that should get a ban is Ripard Teg, he started this shitstorm and harassed other players. Since Xuixien declined to answer when she similarly lambasted Ripard's blog, let's try this metaphorical question on you: So, when you have a festering splinter, do you blame your pain receptors or do you try to remove the splinter & infection? Here, let me give you a better analogy: If you're playing rugby and someone tackles you and you skin your knee, who should you really be mad at: The person who tackles you or the guy who rubs salt on the wound?
Yourself, for not assessing the situasion properly.. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
352
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:32:00 -
[525] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone.
Where does it say this is the ToS/EULA?
Id like to read this myself, thanks
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5531
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:32:00 -
[526] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I dont get why scamming someone stupid enough to give you all their stuff is so bad -.-
You have to be stupid enough to give them all your stuff. Thats rule number one breaking right there. Move on lol CCP have no problem whatsover with scamming. They were extremely clear on this when we discussed the matter with them. Suicide ganking, piracy, awoxing, scamming. spying, propaganda, lying, 0.01ing and so on are all perfectly fine. I personally went to considerable trouble to make sure that my deep concerns on those activities were addressed, and CCP's answers were 100% on the money as far as I'm concerned.This. Is. Not. About. The. Scam. It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Malcanis, in many cases I'm right there with you. I've seen people take things to incredibly cruel levels before they are done.
But I have to be honest, asking someone to read text and sing the gummy bear song doesn't fall into that category in my book... and it doesn't fall into that category in Sohkars book either.
Still, I can appreciate the position that CCP and the CSM was in... and respect the decisions made. It's just unfortunate that it makes it look like caving in to the mob mentality (which I personally don't believe it was). To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tyrant Scorn
142
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:32:00 -
[527] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Dear CCP Falcon,
How do you deal with harassment outside the game media, for example on TeamSpeak or Mumble ?
I have had multiple instances where people would insult me to a point where they would insult my family, threaten to kill my dog, come to my house and do something to me or beat me up at fanfest. I even had a guy tell me I should get cancer and die.
How do I deal with that ? CCP has no authority outside of the ingame media, however the out of game comms are an extension and are directly related to the game.
I am an adult and I have pretty thick skin and yet, I am man enough to admit that something inside me broke when certain people made those insults. I felt really hurt and it touched a sensitive side of me and instead of getting angry I could do nothing other then feel really bad about it.
So, how do you deal with things like that ? Can I come to CCP and ask for action taken against these individuals ? Do I have to supply a recording ? In almost all instances similar to what you describe, we would advise you to contact local authorities if you feel threatened or if you feel that laws have been broken. It's not common that events taking place outside the game or our websites result in disciplinary action from us due to obvious reasons, but we do reserve the right to restrict access to your services when we find them to be used for violating the EULA. Players are of course always welcome to contact us and ask for advice or assistance.
Maybe you should read my post again CCP Guard. You addressed like 10% of my post and completely ignored the rest. Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2115
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:33:00 -
[528] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:I guess If I have a question for CCP.
Where exactly is the line?
In the sand. This is not a signature. |
Vilar Diin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Li3 Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:33:00 -
[529] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:As I predicted, the weaseling segment of the community wants a clearly defined line (to circumvent) and CCP is showing pure genius in not providing one and stating intent to judge each case individually. (Thereby causing much grief to those who want to cause much grief)
That segment of the community cannot claim that CCP is not in touch with them. Heck they should be saying "ah well played, masters." and move on. You won't be so happy with those unclear lines when you give an offhand remark and get banned because the person you said it to has a sad.
Oh stop, these histrionics are unbecoming hardcore gent such as yourself.
CCP made it clear in previous statements in this thread that that would never happen. The CSM did also. You are just being willfully ignorant.
Go forth and fleece some sheep they are waiting for you, and all of their furious bleating notwithstanding, CCP will look on in pride at you nefarious deeds.
However, please refrain from acts out of game that are outright creepy and disturbing, that mayo or mayonoto go good for you... |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4559
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:33:00 -
[530] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:As I predicted, the weaseling segment of the community wants a clearly defined line (to circumvent) and CCP is showing pure genius in not providing one and stating intent to judge each case individually. (Thereby causing much grief to those who want to cause much grief)
That segment of the community cannot claim that CCP is not in touch with them. Heck they should be saying "ah well played, masters." and move on. You won't be so happy with those unclear lines when you give an offhand remark and get banned because the person you said it to has a sad.
I'm sure there will be legions of the weasels out there, smitten over this whole matter, looking for every little thing to report.
Just like the tanking of industrials and removal of insurance payouts have people resorting to bumping.
I was going to use the word "butthurt" but I know someone would use that and cry homophobia. You see, the environment you describe, I already worked in that environment, surrounded by charred (can't use the word "blackened" because someone will scream racism) little souls using the system as their personal weapon for every little thing. Lacking skills and any real intelligence, it's all they have. It's their form of miner bumping.
Maybe I just won't talk to anybody - oh wait, there's only like 7 or 8 people in the whole game that I talk to already. No problem.
(And when I'm in fleet, I never talk - I listen to the FC - problem still solved) Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2839
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:34:00 -
[531] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone. So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Dave Stark
4815
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:35:00 -
[532] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:I guess If I have a question for CCP.
Where exactly is the line? In the sand. ..box |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
353
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:35:00 -
[533] - Quote
Quote:Mario Putzo wrote: I guess If I have a question for CCP.
Where exactly is the line?
This is a good question, when you get killed as a miner, or missioner, will you be able to say "I dont have any more money to get a new ship. Leave me alone or ill get you banned"? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaius Fero
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:36:00 -
[534] - Quote
I'm about to have a relationship with a politician and you guys are trolling me :/ |
Gobtcha
Multi-Tech IGC.
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:36:00 -
[535] - Quote
Thanks, CCP and others for clarifying and taking action on what you felt was right. As a client/player/customer I am happy to see these actions in place.
My personal opinion on this is: Erotica 1 and Sohkar are both in the wrong. Erotica 1 for continually pressing Sohkars button till he snapped. Sohkar for losing his temper to a great extent and never walking away.
Thanks for reading and fly safe or wreckless,
Gobtcha |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6323
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:37:00 -
[536] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Hell, I dont even get why this is NEWS Go read the 380 page threadzilla for starters. You dont know the subject enough that you can explain it on your own without posting to another thread for reference? Im cioming into this new and trying to see whats so important about ONE scam in a game about scamming
It has nothing to do with the scam. It's all about drawing a vague line in the sand against out of game harassment to protect themselves, to ensure an enjoyable gaming environment for the players and to make the current mob put out their torches. If you just want to play the game cheating, scamming and screwing over people, this has zero impact on you. In general CCP doesn't want to touch this crap even with a long pole, so they're telling content creators to make sure to manage their own content before publishing it in a way, that they don''t have to step in later. If the content creator fails to do so, he's placing his account privileges on the line and no amount of rule lawyering will protect you at that point.
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:37:00 -
[537] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone. So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him?
Because...human being |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
334
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:37:00 -
[538] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone. Where does it say this is the ToS/EULA? Id like to read this myself, thanks Extrapolate from the GM response of bumping thread in the crime and punishment boards. That thread makes it pretty clear. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
353
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:37:00 -
[539] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone. So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him?
Also; is this YOUR opinion or is this opinion shared by CCP and updated into the ToS/EULA? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:38:00 -
[540] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Minerbumping.com is saying E1 has been permabanned.
If this is true than it makes me happy CCP would punish someone for this kind of psychological abuse. It wasn't about scamming, it was about the unneeded abuse that took place after. It is obvious where the line has been drawn.
|
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14616
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:39:00 -
[541] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I dont get why scamming someone stupid enough to give you all their stuff is so bad -.-
You have to be stupid enough to give them all your stuff. Thats rule number one breaking right there. Move on lol CCP have no problem whatsover with scamming. They were extremely clear on this when we discussed the matter with them. Suicide ganking, piracy, awoxing, scamming. spying, propaganda, lying, 0.01ing and so on are all perfectly fine. I personally went to considerable trouble to make sure that my deep concerns on those activities were addressed, and CCP's answers were 100% on the money as far as I'm concerned.This. Is. Not. About. The. Scam. It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Malcanis, in many cases I'm right there with you. I've seen people take things to incredibly cruel levels before they are done. But I have to be honest, asking someone to read text and sing the gummy bear song doesn't fall into that category in my book... and it apparently doesn't fall into that category in Sohkars book either. Still, I can appreciate the position that CCP and the CSM was in... and respect the decisions made. It's just unfortunate that it makes it look like caving in to the mob mentality (which I personally don't believe it was).
Mynxee said it best, and tbh, this was the argument that persuaded me. Like yourself, I was very concerned about where the line should be drawn so as to prevent attempts to use the "ugh" as a tool for metagaming:
"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
to expand on what mynxee said there is that the person with the position of power in the situation is the one with the responsibility to ensure that it doesn't cross the line. Erotica1 signally failed to do this. She very precisely articulated the philosophical issue with what he did (as opposed to a mere emotional reaction), and expressed clearly what he did wrong. Like yourself, I wanted a good definition of "the line" before being comfortable with CCP proceeding. There it is.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4559
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:40:00 -
[542] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:I'm listening to the recording myself and this is VERY analogous to a few of my own experiences of gank victims I've invited onto coms and tried to calmly explain why they lost their ship. At what point in that person's rage is it me harassing them? I think it is clear from the very fact that you raise the question that (a) your intent -- to explain, not to abuse -- would be obvious and also (b) you would have the presence of mind to recognize that you weren't helping and end the conversation. As anyone who has started a petition knows, EVE GM and Community Reps are battle-scarred veterans with hearts of coal, their bodies increasingly deformed by the horrific demands of their jobs (CCP Guard, for example, was over 2 meters tall when he started at CCP). You would have to work hard to convince them you are a blackguard worthy of banishment to the outer darkness (ie: World of Warcraft or Hello Kitty Online). Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Trebor, is freedom of speech inviolate or are you one of those that believes in 'hate speech'? I do not agree with the concept of absolute free speech (for example, the right to shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre, or incite a crowd to violence); rather, any limitations on speech should ideally be limited to those intended to prevent harm and encourage rational discourse. I recognize this is a horrible grey area, and that well-intentioned people can disagree on where to draw the lines. Regardless, you -- as a staunch defender of absolute free speech, no matter how much it hurts -- will have absolutely no problem with me making a statement of my position on the harrassment opinion. Quote:At it's core Sohkar willingly took part in a bonus round on Teamspeak (and hung in there) in the context of EvE meta gameplay, in pursuit of moar EvE assets (or their recovery). That is IN GAME Trebor. I beg to differ. IMHO, Sohkar was psychologically trapped -- read up on concepts like sunk costs -- and his tormentors took advantage of this. EVE is CCP's game, and they set the rules of what is and is not acceptable in-game and in its penumbra based on their business interests -- as a believer in absolute free speech, I am sure you also believe in pure laissez-faire capitalism. If you don't like it, you are free to stop doing business with them. But you probably won't -- your own sunk costs will keep you playing, despite the agonizing existential despair you must now be feeling. Feel free to prove me wrong by quitting -- in which case, can I have your stuff?
That's it. I'm an infinite monkey compared to this wit and prose. Where did I get sick and lose that ability to zing people on their own points like that?
That's one of the best posts I ever saw. My faith in CSM is restored somewhat (though I still take a dim view of the form of collectivism that emplaces them).
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Kaius Fero
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:40:00 -
[543] - Quote
You know what? Fuk u all/ Malkan is mine!! Or is Malkanis.... ? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2840
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:41:00 -
[544] - Quote
Vilar Diin wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:As I predicted, the weaseling segment of the community wants a clearly defined line (to circumvent) and CCP is showing pure genius in not providing one and stating intent to judge each case individually. (Thereby causing much grief to those who want to cause much grief)
That segment of the community cannot claim that CCP is not in touch with them. Heck they should be saying "ah well played, masters." and move on. You won't be so happy with those unclear lines when you give an offhand remark and get banned because the person you said it to has a sad. Oh stop, these histrionics are unbecoming hardcore gent such as yourself. CCP made it clear in previous statements in this thread that that would never happen. The CSM did also. You are just being willfully ignorant. Go forth and fleece some sheep they are waiting for you, and all of their furious bleating notwithstanding, CCP will look on in pride at you nefarious deeds. However, please refrain from acts out of game that are outright creepy and disturbing, that mayo or mayonoto go good for you... How can you possibly claim this can't happen? There's no clearly defined rules stating what is and isn't harassment, so it's quite possible someone will say something that can be considered harassment, especially with language and culture barriers.
Also, you've got the other issue. If I got a friend right now to record a voice communication between myself and him with him playing the part of you harassing me and submitted it to CCP as evidence that you harassed me, how would they verify it? How would you be able to disprove it? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
353
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:41:00 -
[545] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Minerbumping.com is saying E1 has been permabanned. If this is true than it makes me happy CCP would punish someone for this kind of psychological abuse. It wasn't about scamming, it was about the unneeded abuse that took place after. It is obvious where the line has been drawn.
So the next time someone like Mittens tries to get someone to commit suicide (drunk or otherwise) a ban will be forthcoming?
Why was THIS such a HUGE problem that deserves an instant permaban and that wasnt?
Erotica1 should just say he was drunk. Thats how the last guy got away with it.
Hey tell him to say he was drunk. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14616
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:41:00 -
[546] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone. So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him? Also; is this YOUR opinion or is this opinion shared by CCP and updated into the ToS/EULA?
The CSM has a unanimous position on this. CCP have fully satisfied us that they are acting according to the existing TOS & EULA and that erotica1 was fairly treated according to the existing rules.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:42:00 -
[547] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Minerbumping.com is saying E1 has been permabanned.
Cool, We can expect Erotica 2 to show up in about 5 minutes and confirm this right?
Do you guys really care about an account he just podded to oblivion and gave everything away on... Please >.>
My only concern here is the angry kid is still handing out pitch forks >.> |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2115
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:42:00 -
[548] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:CCP is very skilled at typing a lot of words to say nothing at all.
As are many, many posters in the forums. This is not a signature. |
Khan D'Amarr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:43:00 -
[549] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone. So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him? Also; is this YOUR opinion or is this opinion shared by CCP and updated into the ToS/EULA?
Looks like they are saying that actions have consequences and if it feels like the scam feels too good then it probably is...see what I did there? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
353
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:43:00 -
[550] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying.
Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Salvos Rhoska
852
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:45:00 -
[551] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Yes, I have. And it basically says "don't make people sad out of game".
VS:
"While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world."
You may have read it, but you have not comprehended it. ------------ |
Kaius Fero
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:45:00 -
[552] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:... The CSM has a unanimous position on this. CCP have fully satisfied us that they are acting according to the existing TOS & EULA and that erotica1 was fairly treated according to the existing rules. Satisfy.. your so erotic! Wanna meet me in a private glory hole channel? Politicians turns me on :| |
Khan D'Amarr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:46:00 -
[553] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying. Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true
He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:47:00 -
[554] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Minerbumping.com is saying E1 has been permabanned. If this is true than it makes me happy CCP would punish someone for this kind of psychological abuse. It wasn't about scamming, it was about the unneeded abuse that took place after. It is obvious where the line has been drawn. So the next time someone like Mittens tries to get someone to commit suicide (drunk or otherwise) a ban will be forthcoming? Why was THIS such a HUGE problem that deserves an instant permaban and that wasnt? Erotica1 should just say he was drunk. Thats how the last guy got away with it. Hey tell him to say he was drunk.
"Tries to get someone to commit suicide" Read what you just wrote. There shouldn't be any doubt in your mind that a ban should be forthcoming we are talking about human beings here. Are you mindless?
I will be keeping up with this and renewing my subscription if erotica 1 was actually banned. Have a nice day everyone =). |
Morihei Akachi
Nishida Corporation
47
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:47:00 -
[555] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone. So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him? This used to be clearer to you, Lucas. You've changed. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3564714#post3564714 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5532
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:48:00 -
[556] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I dont get why scamming someone stupid enough to give you all their stuff is so bad -.-
You have to be stupid enough to give them all your stuff. Thats rule number one breaking right there. Move on lol CCP have no problem whatsover with scamming. They were extremely clear on this when we discussed the matter with them. Suicide ganking, piracy, awoxing, scamming. spying, propaganda, lying, 0.01ing and so on are all perfectly fine. I personally went to considerable trouble to make sure that my deep concerns on those activities were addressed, and CCP's answers were 100% on the money as far as I'm concerned.This. Is. Not. About. The. Scam. It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Malcanis, in many cases I'm right there with you. I've seen people take things to incredibly cruel levels before they are done. But I have to be honest, asking someone to read text and sing the gummy bear song doesn't fall into that category in my book... and it apparently doesn't fall into that category in Sohkars book either. Still, I can appreciate the position that CCP and the CSM was in... and respect the decisions made. It's just unfortunate that it makes it look like caving in to the mob mentality (which I personally don't believe it was). Mynxee said it best, and tbh, this was the argument that persuaded me. Like yourself, I was very concerned about where the line should be drawn so as to prevent attempts to use the "ugh" as a tool for metagaming: "I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."to expand on what mynxee said there is that the person with the position of power in the situation is the one with the responsibility to ensure that it doesn't cross the line. Erotica1 signally failed to do this. She very precisely articulated the philosophical issue with what he did (as opposed to a mere emotional reaction), and expressed clearly what he did wrong. Like yourself, I wanted a good definition of "the line" before being comfortable with CCP proceeding. There it is. Fair enough. Well spoken.
I"m absolutely sure some knuckleheads will try to cite this case after "losing emotional control" to get compensation for a gank or war dec (which will be unsuccessful of course).
I'm a bit concerned about people throwing a fit just to force a person to back away from a scam or prank... but hopefully that flexibility built into CCP's official stance will keep people from abusing it as a "you can't touch me" card. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14625
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:48:00 -
[557] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying. Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true
You may recall that mittens did eat a temp ban. He also apologised unreservedly, and there were extenuating circumstances, not the least of which was that The Wis was wholly unaware of what he did until after the fact.
But if you're truly unable to see the real difference, then I can't help you. All I can advise you to do is to play the game and limit your communication to people who are previously assured of your goodwill.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Khan D'Amarr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:48:00 -
[558] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone. So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him? This used to be clearer to you, Lucas. You've changed. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3564714#post3564714
Dunked! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2843
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:48:00 -
[559] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him? Also; is this YOUR opinion or is this opinion shared by CCP and updated into the ToS/EULA? The CSM has a unanimous position on this. CCP have fully satisfied us that they are acting according to the existing TOS & EULA and that erotica1 was fairly treated according to the existing rules. That doesn't really answer my original question. Rephrased, why should absolutely ZERO responsibility fall on the "victim" to end a situation which they placed themselves into willingly? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
353
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:48:00 -
[560] - Quote
Khan D'Amarr wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying. Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc
So Erotic is just 3 months banned, not permabanned then? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
353
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:49:00 -
[561] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Minerbumping.com is saying E1 has been permabanned. If this is true than it makes me happy CCP would punish someone for this kind of psychological abuse. It wasn't about scamming, it was about the unneeded abuse that took place after. It is obvious where the line has been drawn. So the next time someone like Mittens tries to get someone to commit suicide (drunk or otherwise) a ban will be forthcoming? Why was THIS such a HUGE problem that deserves an instant permaban and that wasnt? Erotica1 should just say he was drunk. Thats how the last guy got away with it. Hey tell him to say he was drunk. "Tries to get someone to commit suicide" Read what you just wrote. There shouldn't be any doubt in your mind that a ban should be forthcoming we are talking about human beings here. Are you mindless?
Funny given that the guy IM not talking about is still here and unbanned.
"Read what you just wrote. There shouldn't be any doubt in your mind that a ban should be forthcoming we are talking about human beings here. Are you mindless?"
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:50:00 -
[562] - Quote
Khan D'Amarr wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying. Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc
So Telling someone to go off themselves is worth 3 months, While making a snide remark about someones speech impairment is worth a perma? Please tell me more about how thats even remotely fair...
|
Salvos Rhoska
852
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:50:00 -
[563] - Quote
Damn... Thats some impressive bookmark filing system you have there :D ------------ |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4558
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:50:00 -
[564] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil. Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone. So Malcanis, why in your professional opinion should someone running a scam be entirely responsible for stopping? Why in all of this, while the "victim" is fully capable of ending it at any moment does absolutely no responsibility fall to him? This used to be clearer to you, Lucas. You've changed. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3564714#post3564714
Depends whether it's him or whoever he's sharing the acct with that's at the keyboard.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
353
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:51:00 -
[565] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Khan D'Amarr wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying. Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc So Telling someone to go off themselves is worth 3 months, While making a snide remark about someones speech impairment is worth a perma? Please tell me more about how thats even remotely fair...
Kinda the point was looking at thank you
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Khan D'Amarr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:51:00 -
[566] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Khan D'Amarr wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying. Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc So Erotic is just 3 months banned, not permabanned then?
Different situation entirely so I have no idea. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
353
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:53:00 -
[567] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Depends whether it's him or whoever he's sharing the acct with that's at the keyboard. Mr Epeen
Ill use a line from the game I was playing while on vacation "It was my position at the time" http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14625
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:53:00 -
[568] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Fair enough. Well spoken.
I"m absolutely sure some knuckleheads will try to cite this case after "losing emotional control" to get compensation for a gank or war dec (which will be unsuccessful of course).
I'm a bit concerned about people throwing a fit just to force a person to back away from a scam or prank... but hopefully that flexibility built into CCP's official stance will keep people from abusing it as a "you can't touch me" card.
Unsurprisingly, we also raised this issue.
Let's just say that anyone attempting to use this ruling for metagaming is going to be very unsatisfied with the results.
They'll probably complain about it for months in the forums of whatever MMO they go on to play next.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Kaius Fero
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:53:00 -
[569] - Quote
I feel your hot.
Im no gay, but ... nudge nudge ... you know what I mean .. do your wife make sports? Or photographs? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
353
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:53:00 -
[570] - Quote
Khan D'Amarr wrote:
Different situation entirely so I have no idea.
Ya, **** someone off, permaban, try to get them to kill themselves, 3 months. Seems legit
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Khan D'Amarr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:53:00 -
[571] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Khan D'Amarr wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
"I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
So Mittani should have been banned in this environment is what youre saying. Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true He was banned in this environment. 3 months or so iirc So Telling someone to go off themselves is worth 3 months, While making a snide remark about someones speech impairment is worth a perma? Please tell me more about how thats even remotely fair... Kinda the point was looking at thank you
From what I understand t was ongoing. He was actually kicked form Goons for being too extreme. There are several recordings out there that have him asking people to do various things with peanut butter and/ or mayo. Read the thread. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4558
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:55:00 -
[572] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: So Erotic is just 3 months banned, not permabanned then?
Maybe.
Hang on to your little johnny for the next three months for the definitive answer.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Morihei Akachi
Nishida Corporation
47
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:55:00 -
[573] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Khan D'Amarr wrote:
Different situation entirely so I have no idea.
Ya, **** someone off, permaban, try to get them to kill themselves, 3 months. Seems legit One time incident versus repeat offender. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2121
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:56:00 -
[574] - Quote
What should be a matter of serious concern to us all, is that the forums are far more entertaining than the actual game play.
Mining Veldsar just cannot compare to the forums for excitement and attempts personality ganking. This is not a signature. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5533
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:57:00 -
[575] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Fair enough. Well spoken.
I"m absolutely sure some knuckleheads will try to cite this case after "losing emotional control" to get compensation for a gank or war dec (which will be unsuccessful of course).
I'm a bit concerned about people throwing a fit just to force a person to back away from a scam or prank... but hopefully that flexibility built into CCP's official stance will keep people from abusing it as a "you can't touch me" card.
Unsurprisingly, we also raised this issue. Let's just say that anyone attempting to use this ruling for metagaming is going to be very unsatisfied with the results. They'll probably complain about it for months in the forums of whatever MMO they go on to play next.
I think in many people heads they are suddenly hearing that awful noise the needle makes when you rip it across the record. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Salvos Rhoska
852
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:59:00 -
[576] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:What should be a matter of serious concern to us all, is that the forums are far more entertaining than the actual game play.
Mining Veldsar just cannot compare to the forums for excitement and attempts personality ganking. Yeah, I'm fully guilty of this. Been deliberately rationing my forum time now to ensure I get some gametime in too :D ------------ |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 19:59:00 -
[577] - Quote
Khan D'Amarr wrote:
From what I understand t was ongoing. He was actually kicked form Goons for being too extreme. There are several recordings out there that have him asking people to do various things with peanut butter and/ or mayo. Read the thread.
Yet about 100 pages ago, I asked for someone to link that recording as proof... Oddly enough im still waiting for said links. Also Goons arent know for their trustworthiness either. When it comes to believing Ero, or someone from goons, its really a coin flip for me >.>
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2843
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:01:00 -
[578] - Quote
Indeed. It's fairly safe to say that I've grown. Do I agree that people should harass, insult and bully other people? No, I most certainly do not. But CCP have made it 100% clear that people should HTFU. Now they pull a complete 180 on that, not to protect an individual, but to buckle to public pressure. The individual in question, Sohkar, even stated in no uncertain terms his position. To quote him directly:sokhar wrote:I dont think erotica 1 should be banned but just because of that i dont think what he did was 100% right but i choose to do what i did and i said what i said he didnt tell me to say it. Source
If CCP want to make a ruling outlawing behaviour like this, they have my full support, but they must CLEARLY define where they want their line drawn, and they shouldn't retroactively apply the rules. The should also reassure us that third party sourced information will need to be fully verified through their own sources, not just accepted as is.
Further to all of that, I'd point out to the public that both sides have the ability to end it at any point. The responsibility shouldn't fall on just one side. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Bing Bangboom
Ded End Damage Inc.
279
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:02:00 -
[579] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
The CSM has a unanimous position on this. CCP have fully satisfied us that they are acting according to the existing TOS & EULA and that erotica1 was fairly treated according to the existing rules.
Normally I would find this reassuring but in this case it was one of the CSM members who raised the lynch mob, long after the event in question occurred. It also appears from his comments that his initial approach to CCP was rebuffed and he took to his blog to raise public opinion to force CCP to take the action it did.
I'm pretty sure we didn't elect a CSM to represent themselves and their personal delicate feelings. And then to tell us, no, we can't say what was done or decided or any of the process.., but trust us.
For me, that day is over.
BBB
Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
|
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:02:00 -
[580] - Quote
So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance now? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?
Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14632
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:03:00 -
[581] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Khan D'Amarr wrote:
From what I understand t was ongoing. He was actually kicked form Goons for being too extreme. There are several recordings out there that have him asking people to do various things with peanut butter and/ or mayo. Read the thread.
Yet about 100 pages ago, I asked for someone to link that recording as proof... Oddly enough im still waiting for said links. Also Goons arent know for their trustworthiness either. When it comes to believing Ero, or someone from goons, its really a coin flip for me >.>
Mynnna is a sufficiently authoritative source for me.
If you're really concerned, get an alt into goonswarm and check. it's not that hard.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Khan D'Amarr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:03:00 -
[582] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:What should be a matter of serious concern to us all, is that the forums are far more entertaining than the actual game play.
Mining Veldsar just cannot compare to the forums for excitement and attempts personality ganking. Yeah, I'm fully guilty of this. Been deliberately rationing my forum time now to ensure I get some gametime in too :D
Read a lot of the thread, you were a trooper. You are the energizer bunny of the E1 scandal.
Question: poopsock it or no? |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2121
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:03:00 -
[583] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Minerbumping.com is saying E1 has been permabanned.
Maybe he could sing some songs and do a bit of reading to win back the right to play in the Bonus Room?
Assuming he has indeed been perma-banned. This is not a signature. |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1103
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:04:00 -
[584] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: The CSMs been a joke since the beginning lol the whole REASON for it in the first place was to go to Iceland and watchdog CCP so that another T20 couldnt happen. That was impossible to start with lol
I would never disagree with that. Ever. Make a thread about it and I'll join in. But this thread is about something else entirely. Mr Epeen I was extremely concerned to make sure that erotica1 got due process. You may recall that I took considerable heat for speaking up for his right to fair treatment. After considerable dialogue with CCP's community team (that was the 2 days when we all went quiet and were "doing nothing") I came away fully satisfied that CCP's intended action was fair, justified and within their previously stated rules.
Due process...more than a year after the offending act began. Well, CCP's judicial system is still swifter than Italy, I suppose.
|
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:04:00 -
[585] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:So Telling someone to go off themselves is worth 3 months, While making a snide remark about someones speech impairment is worth a perma? Please tell me more about how thats even remotely fair...
That's all you thought was going on in the Bonus Room? This is way beyond sniping at ONE guy over a speech impediment. It's a course of conduct. A pattern of deliberating effing with people to the point that they melt down.
Edit: And to your point elsewhere in the thread about the non-existence of the episode where a victim (client??) was asked to dribble mayonnaise on himself: https://soundcloud.com/philip-smith-24/erotica-1-customer |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14638
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:04:00 -
[586] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?
Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys.
No you will not get permabanned for that. Unfortunatley you will be required to exercise your adult judgement on when you're on the threshold of taking it too far.
If you feel yourself incapable of reliably doing that, then I suggest you err on the side of caution.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Talon SilverHawk
Ronin Cartel The G0dfathers
652
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:04:00 -
[587] - Quote
SKINE DMZ wrote:Thanks CCP, of course we all disagree with actual real life harassment, however "harassment" on a virtual Teamspeak server... not so sure what to think of the people who let that happen to them.
Its not about ppl that let that happen to them its about the ppl that do it and take advantage, bully's and sociopaths, just because someone maybe be daft or unfortunate enough to let it happen doesn't mean someone should do it to them...
and what the f*** is a virtual TS server (in this context)????
Tal |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
813
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:05:00 -
[588] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:What should be a matter of serious concern to us all, is that the forums are far more entertaining than the actual game play.
Mining Veldsar just cannot compare to the forums for excitement and attempts personality ganking.
All the "meta" aspects of the game are more entertaining. EVE on its surface is a terribly uninteresting game. But when you have a collision of personas and narratives, and the meta game is being played in forums, news sites, comms what have you. Thats when the real beauty of EVE is on display.
This game is more about cultivating a persona and finding your place in the universe than it will ever be about shooting red crosses, or mining rocks...because frankly limiting yourself to just that you may as well play minecraft alone in your room.
EVEs beauty is the meta, not its gameplay. |
Kaius Fero
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:07:00 -
[589] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?
Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys. No you will not get permabanned for that. Unfortunatley you will be required to exercise your adult judgement on when you're on the threshold of taking it too far. If you feel yourself incapable of reliably doing that, then I suggest you err on the side of caution. You think is problem if I stalk you? Is all about love after all :( And your wife... :P |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:07:00 -
[590] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Khan D'Amarr wrote:
From what I understand t was ongoing. He was actually kicked form Goons for being too extreme. There are several recordings out there that have him asking people to do various things with peanut butter and/ or mayo. Read the thread.
Yet about 100 pages ago, I asked for someone to link that recording as proof... Oddly enough im still waiting for said links. Also Goons arent know for their trustworthiness either. When it comes to believing Ero, or someone from goons, its really a coin flip for me >.> Mynnna is a sufficiently authoritative source for me. If you're really concerned, get an alt into goonswarm and check. it's not that hard.
Sure, like no one has ever heard of the goon recruitment scam, You must think I'm an idiot don't you. Proof or GTFO |
|
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:07:00 -
[591] - Quote
The OP is well and clearly stated. Other actions beyond that are not really my business; I have confidence that future situations will be dealt with appropriately, if not necessarily in accordance with my wishes.
I am going to go buy some PLEX right now, and further promise to buy pretty spaceship models as soon as CCP can produce them. A company with brains, heart and courage is welcome to my money. |
Louis Robichaud
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
200
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:07:00 -
[592] - Quote
When I read this dev post, my first impression was that it is a denunciation of the bonus room activities. But it isn't. It's a strongly worded but generic condemnation of harassment.
To me it is very clear that Erotica1's shenanigans are harassment. But this is not so clear to other players. My personal opinion doesn't matter that much, but CCP's does. Sadly, the post is silent on that. The dev post therefore provides very little guidance, and does not address the issue at hand. |
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:08:00 -
[593] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?
Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys. No you will not get permabanned for that. Unfortunatley you will be required to exercise your adult judgement on when you're on the threshold of taking it too far. If you feel yourself incapable of reliably doing that, then I suggest you err on the side of caution.
How can asking someone to sing songs and read wikipedia pages ever be too far? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
355
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:08:00 -
[594] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Khan D'Amarr wrote:
Different situation entirely so I have no idea.
Ya, **** someone off, permaban, try to get them to kill themselves, 3 months. Seems legit One time incident versus repeat offender. Public apology versus laughing it off.
Public pretending to care... If you bought that apology...
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14638
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:08:00 -
[595] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?
Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys. No you will not get permabanned for that. Unfortunatley you will be required to exercise your adult judgement on when you're on the threshold of taking it too far. If you feel yourself incapable of reliably doing that, then I suggest you err on the side of caution. You think is problem if I stalk you? Is all about love after all :(
I trust you won't complain about the results. Looking through my bedroom window isn't widely considered an aesthetic treat.
1 Kings 12:11
|
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
335
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:09:00 -
[596] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I dont get why scamming someone stupid enough to give you all their stuff is so bad -.-
You have to be stupid enough to give them all your stuff. Thats rule number one breaking right there. Move on lol CCP have no problem whatsover with scamming. They were extremely clear on this when we discussed the matter with them. Suicide ganking, piracy, awoxing, scamming. spying, propaganda, lying, 0.01ing and so on are all perfectly fine. I personally went to considerable trouble to make sure that my deep concerns on those activities were addressed, and CCP's answers were 100% on the money as far as I'm concerned.This. Is. Not. About. The. Scam. It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
Malcanis wrote:I was extremely concerned to make sure that erotica1 got due process. You may recall that I took considerable heat for speaking up for his right to fair treatment.
After considerable dialogue with CCP's community team (that was the 2 days when we all went quiet and were "doing nothing") I came away fully satisfied that CCP's intended action was fair, justified and within their previously stated rules. Thank you for your efforts in making sure Ero got a fair shot. Ripard's blog started a massive uproar and I'm sure put a lot of pressure on CCP. I have to admit, I am a little disturbed that this has been going on for nearly a year, but Ero has received no warnings on the subject prior to a (seemingly) permanent ban. Also once the ban went into effect, he received no communication about exactly what steps were being taken. I am not asking for any changes regarding the handling of this case, but CCP really needs to look at their communication process when handling rules violations in the future. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14638
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:09:00 -
[597] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?
Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys. No you will not get permabanned for that. Unfortunatley you will be required to exercise your adult judgement on when you're on the threshold of taking it too far. If you feel yourself incapable of reliably doing that, then I suggest you err on the side of caution. How can asking someone to sing songs and read wikipedia pages ever be too far?
Contract me all your ISK and stuff and we'll find out together.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Morihei Akachi
Nishida Corporation
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:10:00 -
[598] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Indeed. It's fairly safe to say that I've grown. Do I agree that people should harass, insult and bully other people? No, I most certainly do not. But CCP have made it 100% clear that people should HTFU. Now they pull a complete 180 on that, not to protect an individual, but to buckle to public pressure. GǪ I think CCP are less concerned about "protecting" SohkarGÇöhow could they be? that story is overGÇöthan they are about preventing this happening again to anyone else. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14638
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:11:00 -
[599] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Thank you for your efforts in making sure Ero got a fair shot. Ripard's blog started a massive uproar and I'm sure put a lot of pressure on CCP. I have to admit, I am a little disturbed that this has been going on for nearly a year, but Ero has received no warnings on the subject prior to a (seemingly) permanent ban. Also once the ban went into effect, he received no communication about exactly what steps were being taken. I am not asking for any changes regarding the handling of this case, but CCP really needs to look at their communication process when handling rules violations in the future.
That's fair comment, and I will raise it with the GM team. If erotica1 had indeed petitioned to check if what he was doing was OK, then there are questions to answer.
I'll do it on Monday though, if that's OK with you. It has been a long week.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1455
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:11:00 -
[600] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Fair enough. Well spoken.
I"m absolutely sure some knuckleheads will try to cite this case after "losing emotional control" to get compensation for a gank or war dec (which will be unsuccessful of course).
I'm a bit concerned about people throwing a fit just to force a person to back away from a scam or prank... but hopefully that flexibility built into CCP's official stance will keep people from abusing it as a "you can't touch me" card.
Unsurprisingly, we also raised this issue. Let's just say that anyone attempting to use this ruling for metagaming is going to be very unsatisfied with the results. They'll probably complain about it for months in the forums of whatever MMO they go on to play next.
Okay, I'm confused. Allow me to ask a few questions, here. And this is a playerbase issue, here, so I'd ask that you please show me just enough respect to give me concise answers and not blow-off excuses (not that I think you would, I'm just saying). Bear in mind I am not on anyone in particular's side, on this. Obviously, I am against actual harassment. I just don't see where the Bonus Room antics would qualify.
1. Once again, how is a willing participant being "harassed"? It's not like the guy was a child or mentally challenged. He should have known, full-well, what he was doing to himself, and that he could have quit at any time. Where are we drawing the line, here? Because this seems an awful lot like WoW-Style guiding-player-along-by-the-hand.
2. In general, where are we drawing the line, here? You say anyone attempting to use this ruling as a basis for a "can't touch me" card metagame is not going to like the results, but what happens when a white-knight GM, or just one that simply doesn't understand what is and is not harassment, gets hold of a support ticket from some angry carebear who just wants to mine or mission in lowsec without consequences, and bans the combat pilot for simply doing what he has always known he was allowed to do?
3. Are you taking a firm stance against any and all "slippery slopes", here? You're going to see a LOT of loyal players unsub if ganking ever becomes a bannable offense. Remember.... highsec carebears don't stay around too long. It's the well-rounded folks who really pay CCP's bills.
4. If action was, indeed, taken against Erotica 1, what will become of Sokhar? That diatribe he spewed was pretty vile. In my opinion, it shows his true colors. Do we really need to defend players like him? If E1 was perma'd, Sokhar should be, as well. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
520
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:12:00 -
[601] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true More of your delicious tears pls. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
502
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:14:00 -
[602] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?
Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys. No you will not get permabanned for that. Unfortunatley you will be required to exercise your adult judgement on when you're on the threshold of taking it too far. If you feel yourself incapable of reliably doing that, then I suggest you err on the side of caution. How can asking someone to sing songs and read wikipedia pages ever be too far? Contract me all your ISK and stuff and we'll find out together.
I'm voting for you weather you run or not.
If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Dave Stark
4819
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:14:00 -
[603] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true More of your delicious tears pls.
still unable to differentiate between questions and tears, i see. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
813
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:14:00 -
[604] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Indeed. It's fairly safe to say that I've grown. Do I agree that people should harass, insult and bully other people? No, I most certainly do not. But CCP have made it 100% clear that people should HTFU. Now they pull a complete 180 on that, not to protect an individual, but to buckle to public pressure. GǪ I think CCP are less concerned about "protecting" SohkarGÇöhow could they be? that story is overGÇöthan they are about preventing this happening again to anyone else.
It will happen again, and it will happen the next time after that, and it will be handled by CCP case by case, as it should be. It should not be up to the community to call for blood because a guy like Ripard Teg decided to write a blog post about a month old issue to "win" a personal vendetta against an individual.
I am curious as to if Sohkar, or any other bonus room candidate has ever filed a complaint with CCP stating they were harassed. I am not entitled to know, but I am curious. |
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:15:00 -
[605] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?
Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys. No you will not get permabanned for that. Unfortunatley you will be required to exercise your adult judgement on when you're on the threshold of taking it too far. If you feel yourself incapable of reliably doing that, then I suggest you err on the side of caution. How can asking someone to sing songs and read wikipedia pages ever be too far? Contract me all your ISK and stuff and we'll find out together.
Scamming is fine in this game. Asking someone to sing is fine. Apparently scamming and asking someone to sing isn't? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2844
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:15:00 -
[606] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Indeed. It's fairly safe to say that I've grown. Do I agree that people should harass, insult and bully other people? No, I most certainly do not. But CCP have made it 100% clear that people should HTFU. Now they pull a complete 180 on that, not to protect an individual, but to buckle to public pressure. GǪ I think CCP are less concerned about "protecting" SohkarGÇöhow could they be? that story is overGÇöthan they are about preventing this happening again to anyone else. And they could do so by clearly defining what they deem as crossing the line, and not by buckling to public demand by punishing a single player from a whole heap of players who perform similar acts. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
523
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:15:00 -
[607] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Successful witch hunt guys. You're welcome. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14649
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:16:00 -
[608] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here?
I answered this question a few pages page.
The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone.
Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like.
Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards.
Is that so hard to understand?
1 Kings 12:11
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:16:00 -
[609] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?
Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys. No you will not get permabanned for that. Unfortunatley you will be required to exercise your adult judgement on when you're on the threshold of taking it too far. If you feel yourself incapable of reliably doing that, then I suggest you err on the side of caution. How can asking someone to sing songs and read wikipedia pages ever be too far?
"We need our Evil Emperors (TheMittani), our Tywin Lannister (Baltec1) and the other assorted scoundrels out there, we even need the phosphorescent green mold that accumulates under many space urinals (The New Order)."
Oh Hey!
We were just talking about you. Please understand that no matter how much we want and need you, the real person to ask your question of is E1. Let me get him for you...
I can't seem to find him, but he would be the person to get advice from it seems. Just follow the sound of his receding voice.... " it puts the mayo on or it gets the hose."...
Sorry I can't help.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
356
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:16:00 -
[610] - Quote
Louis Robichaud wrote:When I read this dev post, my first impression was that it is a denunciation of the bonus room activities. But it isn't. It's a strongly worded but generic condemnation of harassment.
To me it is very clear that Erotica1's shenanigans are harassment. But this is not so clear to other players. My personal opinion doesn't matter that much, but CCP's does. Sadly, the post is silent on that. The dev post therefore provides very little guidance, and does not address the issue at hand.
Yeah, it seems to say "bonus rooms are fine but try to do them a little less than the person we banned for doing it" http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
523
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:17:00 -
[611] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:still unable to differentiate between questions and tears, i see. It's not questioning. He's going on and on, crying about the decision, crying about the outcome.
The sweetest tears are griefer tears. It's just right with the universe to see the HFTU crowd bawling their eyes out.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
337
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:18:00 -
[612] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:How can asking someone to sing songs and read wikipedia pages ever be too far? Its too far when you are purposely prodding a victim that is uncomfortable with the situation. Just like how the New Order is not supposed to follow a miner between regions to continue bumping that specific miner, once you have a mark's assets you should make them do their little jig and then stop. Don't continue just to see how far you can make them go. This really shouldn't be rocket science. The bonus round was completely fine for a significant number of clients. I became disturbed when I was told, "Get on comms, this guy is crying. Its hilarious." Does that make any sense? New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
69
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:18:00 -
[613] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: "I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
to expand on what mynxee said there is that the person with the position of power in the situation is the one with the responsibility to ensure that it doesn't cross the line. Erotica1 signally failed to do this. She very precisely articulated the philosophical issue with what he did (as opposed to a mere emotional reaction), and expressed clearly what he did wrong. Like yourself, I wanted a good definition of "the line" before being comfortable with CCP proceeding. There it is.
So if I pop someone's assets, they start to freak out in chat, and I poke fun at them for it.... as long as I stop poking fun at them once I realize that they're honestly and truly starting to lose emotional control (but continue blowing up their stuff).... if I do that, then I'm firmly planted in the grey area of "*******" but not 'banned *******"?
.... I'm okay with that. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
356
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:18:00 -
[614] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone.
So anyone that kills miners/missioners in high sec is what youre saying. The guys that "farm tears" so Burn Jita, Hulkageddon, all that is forbidden now?
Because "for no reason other than to goad [them], IS the ADVERTISED reason FOR those things.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14649
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:20:00 -
[615] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote: If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone.
So anyone that kills miners/missioners in high sec is what youre saying. The guys that "farm tears" so Burn Jita, Hulkageddon, all that is forbidden now? Because " for no reason other than to goad [them], IS the ADVERTISED reason FOR those things.
No, that's the exact opposite of what I'm saying, as you're well aware with your careful choice of exluding what you've quoted for my post.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Kaius Fero
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:20:00 -
[616] - Quote
Refresh us.. why the community should vote fore you? Except being a goon pet,,,
I mean.. if I need a scam king, I vote for any goon... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14649
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:21:00 -
[617] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Malcanis wrote: "I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
to expand on what mynxee said there is that the person with the position of power in the situation is the one with the responsibility to ensure that it doesn't cross the line. Erotica1 signally failed to do this. She very precisely articulated the philosophical issue with what he did (as opposed to a mere emotional reaction), and expressed clearly what he did wrong. Like yourself, I wanted a good definition of "the line" before being comfortable with CCP proceeding. There it is.
So if I pop someone's assets, they start to freak out in chat, and I poke fun at them for it.... as long as I stop poking fun at them once I realize that they're honestly and truly starting to lose emotional control (but continue blowing up their stuff).... if I do that, then I'm firmly planted in the grey area of "*******" but not 'banned *******"? .... I'm okay with that.
Precisely.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14649
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:22:00 -
[618] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:Refresh us.. why the community should vote fore you? Except being a goon pet,,, I mean.. if I need a scam king, I vote for any goon...
The answer will cost you all your ISK and stuff.
Full API verification will be required.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Drone 16
Law Dogz
118
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:22:00 -
[619] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true More of your delicious tears pls. still unable to differentiate between questions and tears, i see.
LMAO! That was me who said that not him! Your tears are obscuring your vision.
More please |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
379
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:23:00 -
[620] - Quote
I'm amazed that some posters here still can't differentiate in game play (ganking, scamming and even bumping - all good and CCP sanctioned) versus taking it out of game and subjecting a mark to several hours of TS3 slavery for no in game benefit whatsoever.
To those types of players, I suggest you learn the difference quickly. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
356
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:23:00 -
[621] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:H aVo K wrote:Malcanis wrote: "I guess you have to draw the line at the point where the victim starts to lose emotional control, and that's a different place for everyone and every situation. And there has to be a willingness to recognize that line and honor it with humane behavior. I don't get a sense from Erotica's recording that there was any intent in ever doing that. Not one bit."
to expand on what mynxee said there is that the person with the position of power in the situation is the one with the responsibility to ensure that it doesn't cross the line. Erotica1 signally failed to do this. She very precisely articulated the philosophical issue with what he did (as opposed to a mere emotional reaction), and expressed clearly what he did wrong. Like yourself, I wanted a good definition of "the line" before being comfortable with CCP proceeding. There it is.
So if I pop someone's assets, they start to freak out in chat, and I poke fun at them for it.... as long as I stop poking fun at them once I realize that they're honestly and truly starting to lose emotional control (but continue blowing up their stuff).... if I do that, then I'm firmly planted in the grey area of "*******" but not 'banned *******"? .... I'm okay with that. Precisely.
Ah, so nothing's changed
Good to know http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
118
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:24:00 -
[622] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Refresh us.. why the community should vote fore you? Except being a goon pet,,, I mean.. if I need a scam king, I vote for any goon... The answer will cost you all your ISK and stuff. Full API verification will be required.
But what if I write M...A...L..C...A...N...I...S in peanut butter on my chest? Can I get a discount? |
Prince Kobol
1572
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:24:00 -
[623] - Quote
Kaius Fero wrote:Refresh us.. why the community should vote fore you? Except being a goon pet,,, I mean.. if I need a scam king, I vote for any goon...
In all of this I have been beyond impressed with how Malc has dealt with this.
I do not know if he was designated by the CSM to post here and on the other thread, I do not know if he volunteered or if he was posting as a CSM rep or just a everyday player, either way I am glad I voted for him and it is a crying shame he is not re-running for the next CSM.
Just want to say thanks for the work you did on one this Malc, you actually have done what I though was impossible given me faith in the CSM again. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5536
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:25:00 -
[624] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Also; any time someone ganks a miner and the miner rages, they ganker will be banned? That meets that emotional requirement that this seems to need. That will change this game HUGELY if true More of your delicious tears pls. Apparently the miner can rage all he wants to no avail. This does not protect him in any way.
If he then proceeds to seek official sanction towards the ganker, he will end up ignored... or in hot water himself.
It looks like it's even okay to ask him to sing for his ship... but only right up to the point where he starts in with emotional outbursts. At that point you just step away and be happy with the gank you got, even if you didn't get all the tears you would have preferred in the long run. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14652
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:25:00 -
[625] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:I'm amazed that some posters here still can't differentiate in game play (ganking, scamming and even bumping - all good and CCP sanctioned) versus taking it out of game and subjecting a mark to several hours of TS3 slavery for no in game benefit whatsoever. To those types of players, I suggest you learn the difference quickly.
That would be a sensible course of action.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
816
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:25:00 -
[626] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand?
Ya but thats the thing. My line could be a tiny dot compared to someone like you (hypothetically of course) My judgement says, singing a bunch of songs while being scammed is fine. The victim of the scam must realize they have been had. Should responsibility also not fall up on them to say when enough is enough.
That is what is arbitrary about it and why we had 380 page thread (400 including this) discussing the "line". We all don't have the same limits on what and what is not considered harassment.
If I gank the same miner a dozen times in a night because he hasn't learned how to defend himself, or go find a different place...I see that as taking advantage of someone who is being a moron repeatedly, he might consider it griefing and harassment.
Which one of us is right? There are hundreds of systems he can mine in, and nothing prevents me from killing him every time he undocks. Should I have to say, well I killed him 11 times already I guess ill let him go the 12th time just incase he says im harassing him?
Or does it only apply to TS related things, and at what point does it become the "victims" responsibility to remove themselves from a situation they may find uncomfortable.
We can draw arbitrary lines all over the sandbox. It would be nice to know at what point we reach the limits of the sandbox, so EVERYONE knows where that line is, otherwise it amounts to personal opinion, and that changes from me to you, to the next guy, even CCP Employees have differing individual opinions. |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:25:00 -
[627] - Quote
Six PLEX just purchased from a well-run company that cares about its players. |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
71
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:27:00 -
[628] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Khan D'Amarr wrote:
Different situation entirely so I have no idea.
Ya, **** someone off, permaban, try to get them to kill themselves, 3 months. Seems legit One time incident versus repeat offender. Public apology versus laughing it off.
public apology, stepped down from CSM immediately and sent the entire contents of his wallet to the wis.... and all that happened the instant he sobered up, the next day. Well before CCP had even commented on the situation.
I'm not a Mittens fan, but at least he understood that he crossed a line, and did what he could to try and make amends.
E1 laughed it off and pre-emptively gave all his stuff to his buds, and "went out with a bang", while asking Sohkar a list of questions designed to try and whitewash this whole thing. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
356
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:27:00 -
[629] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:I'm amazed that some posters here still can't differentiate in game play (ganking, scamming and even bumping - all good and CCP sanctioned) versus taking it out of game and subjecting a mark to several hours of TS3 slavery for no in game benefit whatsoever. To those types of players, I suggest you learn the difference quickly.
Yeah because they totally hacked the victim's computer, so they couldnt DC their teamspeak, broke into their house, and duct taped the headphones to their head, while tying them to the chair. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2848
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:27:00 -
[630] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? Yes. 2 Questions: 1. Say a player gets pirated, and is requested to sing on teamspeak to save their pod. They then choose to do so. If after that they decide they are upset by the situation. If they report that to CCP, will CCP act? 2. In the above situation, does the willingness of the pirate to honour his deal weight in as a factor in any way?
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
528
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:28:00 -
[631] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Which one of us is right? Do a George Costanza. Assume your instincts are wrong and do the opposite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUvKE3bQlY
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4564
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:29:00 -
[632] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:
We can draw arbitrary lines all over the sandbox.
No 'we' can't. But CCP can.
Deal with it or GT...oh hell, you know the rest.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
356
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:30:00 -
[633] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? Ya but thats the thing. My line could be a tiny dot compared to someone like you (hypothetically of course) My judgement says, singing a bunch of songs while being scammed is fine. The victim of the scam must realize they have been had. Should responsibility also not fall up on them to say when enough is enough. That is what is arbitrary about it and why we had 380 page thread (400 including this) discussing the "line". We all don't have the same limits on what and what is not considered harassment. If I gank the same miner a dozen times in a night because he hasn't learned how to defend himself, or go find a different place...I see that as taking advantage of someone who is being a moron repeatedly, he might consider it griefing and harassment. Which one of us is right? There are hundreds of systems he can mine in, and nothing prevents me from killing him every time he undocks. Should I have to say, well I killed him 11 times already I guess ill let him go the 12th time just incase he says im harassing him? Or does it only apply to TS related things, and at what point does it become the "victims" responsibility to remove themselves from a situation they may find uncomfortable. We can draw arbitrary lines all over the sandbox. It would be nice to know at what point we reach the limits of the sandbox, so EVERYONE knows where that line is, otherwise it amounts to personal opinion, and that changes from me to you, to the next guy, even CCP Employees have differing individual opinions.
This http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1455
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:30:00 -
[634] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand?
That's what I'm talking about, right there. I don't care how much he does or doesn't rage at me. If he keeps coming back into the lowsec system I live in, when he knows full-well, by now that he's going to be rewarded for it with a facefull of Ferox, I'm GOING to keep giving it to him. Now, all he has to do at that point is petition me, and send the GM the EVEmails whereby he raged at me and demanded that I stop preventing him from encroaching on my home, breaking my ratting chain, and scaring off better targets, and I responded by sending him the lyrics to Particle Man. Now, poor old Garamonde is temp banned for harassment, and the moron carebear that doesn't understand what lowsec means, gets pretty much "Lethal Weapon 2 Style Diplomatic Immunity" as a result. All he has to do is claim that I was deliberately targeting him, simply to harass him.
That's total crap and you know it. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
71
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:30:00 -
[635] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:What should be a matter of serious concern to us all, is that the forums are far more entertaining than the actual game play.
Mining Veldsar just cannot compare to the forums for excitement and attempts personality ganking. All the "meta" aspects of the game are more entertaining. EVE on its surface is a terribly uninteresting game. But when you have a collision of personas and narratives, and the meta game is being played in forums, news sites, comms what have you. Thats when the real beauty of EVE is on display. This game is more about cultivating a persona and finding your place in the universe than it will ever be about shooting red crosses, or mining rocks...because frankly limiting yourself to just that you may as well play minecraft alone in your room. EVEs beauty is the meta, not its gameplay.
This.
So much so. |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
326
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:30:00 -
[636] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:I'm amazed that some posters here still can't differentiate in game play (ganking, scamming and even bumping - all good and CCP sanctioned) versus taking it out of game and subjecting a mark to several hours of TS3 slavery for no in game benefit whatsoever. To those types of players, I suggest you learn the difference quickly.
Plus, i would suggest to switch off the pc and experience some reallife social interaction. I am truly shocked about that one have to explain that thing multiple times. |
Prince Kobol
1575
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:30:00 -
[637] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? Ya but thats the thing. My line could be a tiny dot compared to someone like you (hypothetically of course) My judgement says, singing a bunch of songs while being scammed is fine. The victim of the scam must realize they have been had. Should responsibility also not fall up on them to say when enough is enough. That is what is arbitrary about it and why we had 380 page thread (400 including this) discussing the "line". We all don't have the same limits on what and what is not considered harassment. If I gank the same miner a dozen times in a night because he hasn't learned how to defend himself, or go find a different place...I see that as taking advantage of someone who is being a moron repeatedly, he might consider it griefing and harassment. Which one of us is right? There are hundreds of systems he can mine in, and nothing prevents me from killing him every time he undocks. Should I have to say, well I killed him 10 times already I guess ill let him go the 11th time just incase he says im harassing him? Or does it only apply to TS related things, and at what point does it become the "victims" responsibility to remove themselves from a situation they may find uncomfortable. We can draw arbitrary lines all over the sandbox. It would be nice to know at what point we reach the limits of the sandbox, so EVERYONE knows where that line is, otherwise it amounts to personal opinion, and that changes from me to you, to the next guy, even CCP Employees have differing individual opinions.
You are asking for the impossible.
Myself for example, I have never raged at anybody when I have a lost a ship, I haven't even gotten remotely upset because to me its all just space pixels.
Other people might rage at getting ganked in a ship worth only a few million.
Myself I see the line where if I am repeating ganking or killing the same person over and over again and they completely flip out and start to rage, scream, swearing, calling me every name under the sun in local then I would back off and report him.
If my objective was to make him cry a river of tears then I win, why continue to goad him even more? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4561
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:31:00 -
[638] - Quote
The mental gymnastics in this thread are incredible.
To call some of these people "greifers" may be incorrect. I think we're dealing with fetishists.
I know they want a wordy, well written, concrete, chiseled into stone "ruling" on this matter so they can do what? Do everything to circumvent it. And when they find another Sohkar and get the same results, they'll throw the rules up and hide behind them when they get called out on their actions.
The line in the sandbox being vague is of no surprise, but this debate rests on something that people lose a grasp on. People want an actual "letter of the law"?
Well there's an old saying "The spirit of the law saves, the letter of the law kills".
There are many laws out there of which the spirit is simple to understand but when you get into semantics fu and wording wars, trying to change the definition of "is" for example, the same law can kill.
See as how the constitution of an entire country, written 200 years ago to protect freedom, is now the very document the denies it (and then legalizes the methods of denial) after 2 centuries of amending, word games, lawyering, and lobbying, should be enough to show how CCP's handling of this matter is very intelligent.
Not only have they engaged this matter in the best way possible, but left it wide open so that the "game the rules" crowd is left in check by their own gaming the game mentality. Of course the statement that CCP will judge matters on a case by case basis is not enough with this crowd!
Schr+¦dinger's cat comes to mind. Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
119
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:31:00 -
[639] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? Yes. 2 Questions: 1. Say a player gets pirated, and is requested to sing on teamspeak to save their pod. They then choose to do so. If after that they decide they are upset by the situation. If they report that to CCP, will CCP act? 2. In the above situation, does the willingness of the pirate to honour his deal weight in as a factor in any way?
Hey,
While you are being called on to answer all these fringe questions by well...the fringe...please describe the color blue. As soon as you successfully accomplish that the other non-sense questions should stop as well. |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1103
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:32:00 -
[640] - Quote
These questions about other people getting banned for winding people up are kind of redundant. The answer is obviously no.
Are we supposed to believe Erotica 1 was still going to be banned today even if Ripard didn't write a blog about him?
|
|
Drone 16
Law Dogz
119
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:32:00 -
[641] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:
We can draw arbitrary lines all over the sandbox.
No 'we' can't. But CCP can. Deal with it or GT...oh hell, you know the rest. Mr Epeen
Love you, man! |
Prince Kobol
1575
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:32:00 -
[642] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? Yes. 2 Questions: 1. Say a player gets pirated, and is requested to sing on teamspeak to save their pod. They then choose to do so. If after that they decide they are upset by the situation. If they report that to CCP, will CCP act? 2. In the above situation, does the willingness of the pirate to honour his deal weight in as a factor in any way? Hey, While you are being called on to answer all these fringe questions by well...the fringe...please describe the color blue. As soon as you successfully accomplish that the other non-sense questions should stop as well.
Just to add to this I am colour blind so I would actually appreciate a description of the colour blue |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:32:00 -
[643] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Malcanis wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Refresh us.. why the community should vote fore you? Except being a goon pet,,, I mean.. if I need a scam king, I vote for any goon... The answer will cost you all your ISK and stuff. Full API verification will be required. But what if I write M...A...L..C...A...N...I...S in peanut butter on my chest? Can I get a discount? I have visions of this becoming a thing at FanFest. It's probably better than ketchup or mayonnaise, both of which become very nasty after they've been smeared on the body for a while. Don't ask me how I know this. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14652
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:33:00 -
[644] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Refresh us.. why the community should vote fore you? Except being a goon pet,,, I mean.. if I need a scam king, I vote for any goon... In all of this I have been beyond impressed with how Malc has dealt with this. I do not know if he was designated by the CSM to post here and on the other thread, I do not know if he volunteered or if he was posting as a CSM rep or just a everyday player, either way I am glad I voted for him and it is a crying shame he is not re-running for the next CSM. Just want to say thanks for the work you did on one this Malc, you actually have done what I though was impossible given me faith in the CSM again.
No word of a lie, I am pretty drained by all of this.
No I wasn't designated. I made a deal in my campaign thread and I've done my best to keep it, that's all.
I am counting the days until I am no longer a space-politician and dealing with **** like this affair is someone else's job. Anyone who signs up for a second term of CSM is either insane or a hero. I'm neither.
EDIT: VOTE.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
356
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:33:00 -
[645] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? That's what I'm talking about, right there. I don't care how much he does or doesn't rage at me. If he keeps coming back into the lowsec system I live in, when he knows full-well, by now that he's going to be rewarded for it with a facefull of Ferox, I'm GOING to keep giving it to him. Now, all he has to do at that point is petition me, and send the GM the EVEmails whereby he raged at me and demanded that I stop preventing him from encroaching on my home, breaking my ratting chain, and scaring off better targets, and I responded by sending him the lyrics to Particle Man. Now, poor old Garamonde is temp banned for harassment, and the moron carebear that doesn't understand what lowsec means, gets pretty much "Lethal Weapon 2 Style Diplomatic Immunity" as a result. All he has to do is claim that I was deliberately targeting him, simply to harass him. That's total crap and you know it.
This too! http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2848
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:33:00 -
[646] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? Yes. 2 Questions: 1. Say a player gets pirated, and is requested to sing on teamspeak to save their pod. They then choose to do so. If after that they decide they are upset by the situation. If they report that to CCP, will CCP act? 2. In the above situation, does the willingness of the pirate to honour his deal weight in as a factor in any way? Hey, While you are being called on to answer all these fringe questions by well...the fringe...please describe the color blue. As soon as you successfully accomplish that the other non-sense questions should stop as well. It's not really a fringe question. Singing for ransom is a VERY common practice, but it's also an out of game action and could just as easily be called harassment. How is calling for a ruling on a specific and common case anything to do with describing colours? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
816
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:34:00 -
[647] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? Ya but thats the thing. My line could be a tiny dot compared to someone like you (hypothetically of course) My judgement says, singing a bunch of songs while being scammed is fine. The victim of the scam must realize they have been had. Should responsibility also not fall up on them to say when enough is enough. That is what is arbitrary about it and why we had 380 page thread (400 including this) discussing the "line". We all don't have the same limits on what and what is not considered harassment. If I gank the same miner a dozen times in a night because he hasn't learned how to defend himself, or go find a different place...I see that as taking advantage of someone who is being a moron repeatedly, he might consider it griefing and harassment. Which one of us is right? There are hundreds of systems he can mine in, and nothing prevents me from killing him every time he undocks. Should I have to say, well I killed him 10 times already I guess ill let him go the 11th time just incase he says im harassing him? Or does it only apply to TS related things, and at what point does it become the "victims" responsibility to remove themselves from a situation they may find uncomfortable. We can draw arbitrary lines all over the sandbox. It would be nice to know at what point we reach the limits of the sandbox, so EVERYONE knows where that line is, otherwise it amounts to personal opinion, and that changes from me to you, to the next guy, even CCP Employees have differing individual opinions. You are asking for the impossible. Myself for example, I have never raged at anybody when I have a lost a ship, I haven't even gotten remotely upset because to me its all just space pixels. Other people might rage at getting ganked in a ship worth only a few million. Myself I see the line where if I am repeating ganking or killing the same person over and over again and they completely flip out and start to rage, scream, swearing, calling me every name under the sun in local then I would back off and report him. If my objective was to make him cry a river of tears then I win, why continue to goad him even more?
Its not impossible.
You can't do this. If we find out you have you are gone.
Easy peazy |
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:34:00 -
[648] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand?
Oh please, I'm sure some of my ganking victims have flew off the wall as hard as some bonus room victims did, why is it so different whether the cause of that was in game mechanics or having to sing 1 song too many in TS for their pixels? |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
71
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:34:00 -
[649] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote: If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone.
So anyone that kills miners/missioners in high sec is what youre saying. The guys that "farm tears" so Burn Jita, Hulkageddon, all that is forbidden now? Because " for no reason other than to goad [them], IS the ADVERTISED reason FOR those things.
I guess it's that fine line between trying to torment them until they snap by absolving them of their isk/assets, vs. trying to torment them until they snap by rubbing salt in the wound for having done the former |
Jack Lennox
Killing With a Smile
54
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:34:00 -
[650] - Quote
]Bayonnefrog wrote: Riot Girl, do not shift the blame away from Ero 1 and Co. THEY were the ones who created the mess they find themselves in now, not Ripard. He merely pointed out what happened and articulated why it was wrong.
No you're wrong. Very wrong. This would NOT have been an issue if not for that blog post. Ripard does not give a flying **** about Sohkar. He only used his story to pursue his vendetta against Erotica 1.
We're talking about singing songs for christsake. When you get tackled in a WH and sing a song to get your ship free, no one freaks out. One of the Devs even sang. But when Erotica 1 asks you to sing songs in order to get a 5x payout, people think its a scam for some reason and start crying. And yes, we HAVE had winners before. So lets think about this. If you scam someone out of all of their stuff, that's fine and good. Perfectly acceptable by the EULA. Most people would be PISSED and react in a manner similar to this so-called "victim." The only difference here is that Erotica 1 offered this guy the means to get paid 5x what his stuff was worth, because that's how the game works. Instead of being a good sport and singing along, this "victim" decides to start making IRL threats.
This is not cyber bullying. This is not emotional abuse. This is certainly not torture. This is someone who has something of someones (your ship tackled in a WH or all your assets) and simply wants a song (or a few, after all, your entire net worth is obviously worth more than one ship). If someone freaked out like this because his ship was tackled in a WH and refused to sing, his ship gets blown up. Or in this case, Erotica 1 keeps all his money and assets.
Me (and several others) have already said, this is a manufactured crisis. Singing ransoms are widespread and acceptable. Have you even listened to the recording? I doubt it. I actually sat through all 2 hours. If this was singing for a ship in a WH, NO ONE WOULD GIVE A ****. But now that its for all his assets this is labelled as "bad" and "cyber bullying."
Grow up. There's nothing wrong here
Here's a link for an accurate description of the Bonus Room: http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room
KWAS is now recruiting!-á Incursion Running, L4 Missions, Orca boosts for mining, and small gang WH PvE/PvP |
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2126
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:35:00 -
[651] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Refresh us.. why the community should vote fore you? Except being a goon pet,,, I mean.. if I need a scam king, I vote for any goon... In all of this I have been beyond impressed with how Malc has dealt with this. I do not know if he was designated by the CSM to post here and on the other thread, I do not know if he volunteered or if he was posting as a CSM rep or just a everyday player, either way I am glad I voted for him and it is a crying shame he is not re-running for the next CSM. Just want to say thanks for the work you did on one this Malc, you actually have done what I though was impossible given me faith in the CSM again.
Seconded, and I have not previously been an admirer of Malcanis. This is not a signature. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
528
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:35:00 -
[652] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Now, all he has to do at that point is petition me, and send the GM the EVEmails whereby he raged at me and demanded that I stop preventing him from encroaching on my home, breaking my ratting chain, and scaring off better targets, and I responded by sending him the lyrics to Particle Man. Don't send him the lyrics and you're good.
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Now, poor old Garamonde is temp banned for harassment, and the moron carebear that doesn't understand what lowsec means, gets pretty much "Lethal Weapon 2 Style Diplomatic Immunity" as a result. All he has to do is claim that I was deliberately targeting him, simply to harass him.
That's total crap and you know it. Your example is total crap, as nothing has changed wrt what you can do in game. What has been made clear is that taking it out of game and circumventing the EULA won't stop CCP from taking in game action.
Thanks for the tears though. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14659
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:36:00 -
[653] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? That's what I'm talking about, right there. I don't care how much he does or doesn't rage at me. If he keeps coming back into the lowsec system I live in, when he knows full-well, by now that he's going to be rewarded for it with a facefull of Ferox, I'm GOING to keep giving it to him. Now, all he has to do at that point is petition me, and send the GM the EVEmails whereby he raged at me and demanded that I stop preventing him from encroaching on my home, breaking my ratting chain, and scaring off better targets, and I responded by sending him the lyrics to Particle Man. Now, poor old Garamonde is temp banned for harassment, and the moron carebear that doesn't understand what lowsec means, gets pretty much "Lethal Weapon 2 Style Diplomatic Immunity" as a result. All he has to do is claim that I was deliberately targeting him, simply to harass him. That's total crap and you know it.
I don't know what part of "gank all you like" was too hard for you to understand; I deliberately used one-syllable words, so I'm not sure how I could make it any easier.
But if it helps I'm willing to go over it with you on comms.
(you know the preconditions already, right?)
1 Kings 12:11
|
Duchy Duke
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:36:00 -
[654] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you.
I've seen allot of great points on both sides of the argument (amongst the rest of the ****). But this is a well written gem.
Sums it up. |
Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
90
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:37:00 -
[655] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Morihei Akachi wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Khan D'Amarr wrote:
Different situation entirely so I have no idea.
Ya, **** someone off, permaban, try to get them to kill themselves, 3 months. Seems legit One time incident versus repeat offender. Public apology versus laughing it off. public apology, stepped down from CSM immediately and sent the entire contents of his wallet to the wis.... and all that happened the instant he sobered up, the next day. Well before CCP had even commented on the situation. I'm not a Mittens fan, but at least he understood that he crossed a line, and did what he could to try and make amends. E1 laughed it off and pre-emptively gave all his stuff to his buds, and "went out with a bang", while asking Sohkar a list of questions designed to try and whitewash this whole thing. Mittens crossed a very obvious and well defined line. Encouraging suicide, in any form, is unacceptable. Ribbing a mark was never defined as a breach of EULA. By all means, a clarification on the rules along with a warning sent Erotica's way would have been the proper course of action on the matter.
This is a worrying turn of events. WTF did I just read? |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:37:00 -
[656] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban?
Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys.
Perhaps instead on whining you have some miners that you could bump off their rocks.
Surely there are permits to check. Don't you have to enforce the CODE? Or do you feel rudderless and without the direction of the queen ant?
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14659
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:37:00 -
[657] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Refresh us.. why the community should vote fore you? Except being a goon pet,,, I mean.. if I need a scam king, I vote for any goon... In all of this I have been beyond impressed with how Malc has dealt with this. I do not know if he was designated by the CSM to post here and on the other thread, I do not know if he volunteered or if he was posting as a CSM rep or just a everyday player, either way I am glad I voted for him and it is a crying shame he is not re-running for the next CSM. Just want to say thanks for the work you did on one this Malc, you actually have done what I though was impossible given me faith in the CSM again. Seconded, and I have not previously been an admirer of Malcanis.
That's my fault for not properly communicating how awesome I am.
Please accept my apologies!
1 Kings 12:11
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
153
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:38:00 -
[658] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone.
So let's say I get scammed/ganked by a guy in a ransom. If he sends me a smug EVE Mail is that considered harassing? If I get killed auto-piloting and someone sends a "you need to pay your autopilot license" mail, is that harassing?
Basically what I'm getting at is where does the "line" stand on what is considered harassing and going to far after you do something in-game (i.e. suicide gank, steal, etc.) LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
942
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:38:00 -
[659] - Quote
Malcanis may have not been the CSM you wanteed but he was the one you deserved and I agree
He has been a hero in these threads.
Read back. He stood in front of the mob, demanding due process and then has been tryiong to explain to you that due process has now taken place
When things don't go your way don't blame Atticus Finch
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
73
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:39:00 -
[660] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? Ya but thats the thing. My line could be a tiny dot compared to someone like you (hypothetically of course) My judgement says, singing a bunch of songs while being scammed is fine. The victim of the scam must realize they have been had. Should responsibility also not fall up on them to say when enough is enough. That is what is arbitrary about it and why we had 380 page thread (400 including this) discussing the "line". We all don't have the same limits on what and what is not considered harassment. If I gank the same miner a dozen times in a night because he hasn't learned how to defend himself, or go find a different place...I see that as taking advantage of someone who is being a moron repeatedly, he might consider it griefing and harassment. Which one of us is right? There are hundreds of systems he can mine in, and nothing prevents me from killing him every time he undocks. Should I have to say, well I killed him 11 times already I guess ill let him go the 12th time just incase he says im harassing him? Or does it only apply to TS related things, and at what point does it become the "victims" responsibility to remove themselves from a situation they may find uncomfortable. We can draw arbitrary lines all over the sandbox. It would be nice to know at what point we reach the limits of the sandbox, so EVERYONE knows where that line is, otherwise it amounts to personal opinion, and that changes from me to you, to the next guy, even CCP Employees have differing individual opinions.
My understanding is that you can continue to gank him willy nilly.
My understanding is that you could also do a complete repeat of everything that happened in the Bonus Round with Sohkar, and be fine.... provided you shut the whole thing down the instant it becomes clear that he's starting to lose his mind. |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2851
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:40:00 -
[661] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Malcanis may have not been the CSM you wanteed but he was the one you deserved and I agree
He has been a hero in these threads.
Read back. He stood in front of the mob, demanding due process and then has been tryiong to explain to you that due process has now taken place
When things don't go your way don't blame Atticus Finch
m And yet he fails to answer simple direct questions. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
532
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:40:00 -
[662] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone.
So let's say I get scammed/ganked by a guy in a ransom. If he sends me a smug EVE Mail is that considered harassing? If I get killed auto-piloting and someone sends a "you need to pay your autopilot license" mail, is that harassing?
Basically what I'm getting at is where does the "line" stand on what is considered harassing and going to far after you do something in-game (i.e. suicide gank, steal, etc.)[/quote] The line in game is the EULA. The line out of game is CCP's discretion.
Keep it in game.
This is not rocket science. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Kaius Fero
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:41:00 -
[663] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Kaius Fero wrote:Refresh us.. why the community should vote fore you? Except being a goon pet,,, I mean.. if I need a scam king, I vote for any goon... The answer will cost you all your ISK and stuff. Full API verification will be required. ...u die in fire.. Same with the knight of NI
errrr sorry bout that. Now, lets get back to the tea :) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14659
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:41:00 -
[664] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
It's about what was happening after erotica1 & co already had all the mark's ISK, assets and even his API. Once they've got all his stuff, then what happened after that wasn't about being an evil character in game. It was just about being evil.
Then talking to them on TS was evil? Like I said, I guess I just dont get it Then get this: once you've got all your target's money and killed all his ships, leave him alone. So let's say I get scammed/ganked by a guy in a ransom. If he sends me a smug EVE Mail is that considered harassing? If I get killed auto-piloting and someone sends a "you need to pay your autopilot license" mail, is that harassing? Basically what I'm getting at is where does the "line" stand on what is considered harassing and going to far after you do something in-game (i.e. suicide gank, steal, etc.)
Tell me where you think it is.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
363
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:41:00 -
[665] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Sturmwolke wrote:CCP Falcon wrote: CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Good post, but I'd like a clarification on "disciplinary action against game accounts". Does this constitute all known accounts held by the player? or just a single account? There's no single rule for that, it's always a case by case decision based on internal guidelines and precedents.
Wait, what?!
I have always been under the impression that when the ban hammer falls it will fall on all accounts of the 'bad guy/gal'. Have I been under the wrong impression or is this a recent change in policy? Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene. |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
326
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:41:00 -
[666] - Quote
I know the essential problem. Many people waste too much time with internet and lose the capability of factual subjektive arguing, because google and wikipedia should know better. There is no human being that explains what is right or wrong; there is my pc and my virtual education. Too lazy to think, unable to form individual opinions, unable to show empathy, unable to understand social interaction. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1455
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:42:00 -
[667] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? That's what I'm talking about, right there. I don't care how much he does or doesn't rage at me. If he keeps coming back into the lowsec system I live in, when he knows full-well, by now that he's going to be rewarded for it with a facefull of Ferox, I'm GOING to keep giving it to him. Now, all he has to do at that point is petition me, and send the GM the EVEmails whereby he raged at me and demanded that I stop preventing him from encroaching on my home, breaking my ratting chain, and scaring off better targets, and I responded by sending him the lyrics to Particle Man. Now, poor old Garamonde is temp banned for harassment, and the moron carebear that doesn't understand what lowsec means, gets pretty much "Lethal Weapon 2 Style Diplomatic Immunity" as a result. All he has to do is claim that I was deliberately targeting him, simply to harass him. That's total crap and you know it. I don't know what part of "gank all you like" was too hard for you to understand; I deliberately used one-syllable words, so I'm not sure how I could make it any easier. But if it helps I'm willing to go over it with you on comms. (you know the preconditions already, right?)
I understood, full-well, what YOU were saying. My point that you missed is what steps are going to be take to ensure that carebears understand, completely, that this is not a "can't touch me" card, and that GM's will be properly educated on the subject. Will there be actions taken against carebears for trying to cheat the system? Will GM's be disciplined for handing out bans against gankers?
I've debated with you, before, Malcanis... you're intelligent enough to be far above subtly calling someone stupid. Don't degrade yourself, like that. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
337
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:43:00 -
[668] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:It's not really a fringe question. Singing for ransom is a VERY common practice, but it's also an out of game action and could just as easily be called harassment. How is calling for a ruling on a specific and common case anything to do with describing colours?
The ruling specifically does not touch specific actions. CCP has not done anything against singing ransoms. This seems more targeted at prolonged interactions asking for more and more of the mark each time. Asking them to sing a song or two? Fine. Having them sing the song, demanding two more, then once those are finished, three more, and continuing until they refuse? Probably not so fine. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
532
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:43:00 -
[669] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:My point that you missed is what steps are going to be take to ensure that carebears understand, completely, that this is not a "can't touch me" card, and that GM's will be properly educated on the subject. Will there be actions taken against carebears for trying to cheat the system? Will GM's be disciplined for handing out bans against gankers? Sounds like CCP's problem, not yours.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14659
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:44:00 -
[670] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Malcanis may have not been the CSM you wanteed but he was the one you deserved and I agree
He has been a hero in these threads.
Read back. He stood in front of the mob, demanding due process and then has been tryiong to explain to you that due process has now taken place
When things don't go your way don't blame Atticus Finch
m And yet he fails to answer simple direct questions.
You've been answered. You just didn't get a ruling that you could rules-lawyer your away around, and instead were left with the onerous burden of exercising adult judgement.
So sorry.
1 Kings 12:11
|
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1742
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:44:00 -
[671] - Quote
So can we get all emotional and act crazy to get people to vacate a station camp? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Ahost Gceo
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:45:00 -
[672] - Quote
EVE is legendary for this sort of stuff. Scams, traps, losses, and thefts. It should stay that way because it creates a story or ties in with the ever changing story of the players.
But what it shouldn't be known for is the small sliver of the player population that indulges in sadistic exploitation, intrinsic humiliation, and public display of such activities for the sake of their own entertainment/ego every single day they log on.
This is not PvP or "playing" the game. This is not even what I would consider content creation because people like those who run the "Bonus Room" go far outside the game to achieve their idea of enjoyment meanwhile destroying someone's enjoyment of the game itself. I don't discriminate, I hate everyone equally. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
153
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:46:00 -
[673] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tell me where you think it is.
I'm asking you, given that you're privy to the CSM/CCP discussions about this matter where that line is determined at. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
385
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:46:00 -
[674] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? That's what I'm talking about, right there. I don't care how much he does or doesn't rage at me. If he keeps coming back into the lowsec system I live in, when he knows full-well, by now that he's going to be rewarded for it with a facefull of Ferox, I'm GOING to keep giving it to him. Now, all he has to do at that point is petition me, and send the GM the EVEmails whereby he raged at me and demanded that I stop preventing him from encroaching on my home, breaking my ratting chain, and scaring off better targets, and I responded by sending him the lyrics to Particle Man. Now, poor old Garamonde is temp banned for harassment, and the moron carebear that doesn't understand what lowsec means, gets pretty much "Lethal Weapon 2 Style Diplomatic Immunity" as a result. All he has to do is claim that I was deliberately targeting him, simply to harass him. That's total crap and you know it.
Afaik, the GM's will ask him why out of thousands of star systems did he keep going to that particular star system in which you reside and will politely suggest he tries to pew/rat/mine elsewhere.
Now, if Garamonde is continually seeking to target this particular player - across multiple star systems - in an effort to prevent the player from enjoying the game, then that's griefing imho and I'd expect a difference response from the GMs.
Why aren't you understanding this already? This is how it has always been IN GAME and nothing has changed.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14663
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:48:00 -
[675] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
I understood, full-well, what YOU were saying. My point that you missed is what steps are going to be take to ensure that carebears understand, completely, that this is not a "can't touch me" card, and that GM's will be properly educated on the subject. Will there be actions taken against carebears for trying to cheat the system? Will GM's be disciplined for handing out bans against gankers?
I've debated with you, before, Malcanis... you're intelligent enough to be far above subtly calling someone stupid. Don't degrade yourself, like that.
If I misunderstood you then I apologise. It has been a long goddamb week and I'm tired.
I don't know how to make this any clearer than I already have: your right to boatviolence and spacevillainy has not been reduced by one picometer. If anything, it has been encouraging to see CCP's unconditional commitment to continuing to allow these.
I have already stated above that anyone trying to claim "emotional trauma" merely for having their ship shot at or for accidentally buying a 5 billion ISK Iteron V or for handing over all their stuff to the helpful & friendly goonswarm recruiter whatever will get absolutely nowhere.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:49:00 -
[676] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Drone 16 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? Yes. 2 Questions: 1. Say a player gets pirated, and is requested to sing on teamspeak to save their pod. They then choose to do so. If after that they decide they are upset by the situation. If they report that to CCP, will CCP act? 2. In the above situation, does the willingness of the pirate to honour his deal weight in as a factor in any way? Hey, While you are being called on to answer all these fringe questions by well...the fringe...please describe the color blue. As soon as you successfully accomplish that the other non-sense questions should stop as well. It's not really a fringe question. Singing for ransom is a VERY common practice, but it's also an out of game action and could just as easily be called harassment. How is calling for a ruling on a specific and common case anything to do with describing colours?
You are being obtuse. Intentionally or not I have no idea. It has been a weird few days between the mayo revelations and all of the other headshakers forgive me if I seem skeptical.
Put plainly, you are asking a PLAYER rep who is on here to give us information to the best of his ability to answer complex hypothetical issues about rules. He is a player not a GM, thank him and move on. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14663
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:49:00 -
[677] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tell me where you think it is. I'm asking you, given that you're privy to the CSM/CCP discussions about this matter where that line is determined at.
Well I'm not as smart as you so it would be super helpful to have your definition of where it lies; one that can't be rules-lawyered around or meta-gamed.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Tyrant Scorn
143
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:50:00 -
[678] - Quote
I am just going through that soundcloud recording with Erotica1 and I can't fault anyone for trying to scam. I think its more amazing that the guy who got scammed was so patient with all of it. It took him like an hour and 45 minutes to go berserk. Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:50:00 -
[679] - Quote
There's a lot of folks here seeming to say they haven't got a clue what is and isn't acceptable despite numerous pretty clear explanations.
Seriously I can't see the difficulty here and I can only assume that the ignorance is willful ignorance in the hope of making a point. If you simply can't get your head around the difference between legitimate game play and harrassment - between what is reasonable in game-play and what is deliberately subjecting another person to misery for your own amusement and outside the paramters of the game then you're probably best staying well away from the keyboard.
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2854
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:50:00 -
[680] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's not really a fringe question. Singing for ransom is a VERY common practice, but it's also an out of game action and could just as easily be called harassment. How is calling for a ruling on a specific and common case anything to do with describing colours? The ruling specifically does not touch specific actions. CCP has not done anything against singing ransoms. This seems more targeted at prolonged interactions asking for more and more of the mark each time. Asking them to sing a song or two? Fine. Having them sing the song, demanding two more, then once those are finished, three more, and continuing until they refuse? Probably not so fine. !!!! Even in your little paragraph there! "probably". You can't have a rule of probablys. People definition of "over the line" varies wildly, as these threads prove. How can you possibly have a rule that is so loose and expect people to adhere to it? That's like driving down the road seeing lot's of speed signs that say "not too fast, but pretty fast", then getting pulled over for a ticket. It's just not reasonable. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
364
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:51:00 -
[681] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote: If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone.
So anyone that kills miners/missioners in high sec is what youre saying. The guys that "farm tears" so Burn Jita, Hulkageddon, all that is forbidden now? Because " for no reason other than to goad [them], IS the ADVERTISED reason FOR those things. I guess it's that fine line between trying to torment them until they snap by absolving them of their isk/assets, vs. trying to torment them until they snap by rubbing salt in the wound for having done the former
Kinda the point Im making. Thats a pretty fine line theyre trying to walk
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2130
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:53:00 -
[682] - Quote
To those of you who are concerned about what CCP regards as going too far, the solution is simple, if you think you are crossing the line, you probably are, and if you are still not sure, do something a bit 'iffy' and let CCP know.
I am sure they will be glad to let you know if you are in compliance with the Eve Online CODE. This is not a signature. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
945
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:53:00 -
[683] - Quote
Not willfull ignorance.
People want a clear line so they can dance right up to it, Xenos paradox style
No, The line is in shadow, determined on a case by case basis. Dance near it and accept the risk or exercise some retraint and be risk free. You cvan still scam, strill explode ships, still awox
What I do not understand is why you WANT to do more
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:53:00 -
[684] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Malcanis wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Khan D'Amarr wrote:
From what I understand t was ongoing. He was actually kicked form Goons for being too extreme. There are several recordings out there that have him asking people to do various things with peanut butter and/ or mayo. Read the thread.
Yet about 100 pages ago, I asked for someone to link that recording as proof... Oddly enough im still waiting for said links. Also Goons arent know for their trustworthiness either. When it comes to believing Ero, or someone from goons, its really a coin flip for me >.> Mynnna is a sufficiently authoritative source for me. If you're really concerned, get an alt into goonswarm and check. it's not that hard. Sure, like no one has ever heard of the goon recruitment scam, You must think I'm an idiot don't you. Proof or GTFO
Sorry this may have been over the top but this thread is driving me nuts. People have been saying links of this and links of that and not giving them up.
I actually am trying to look at this from a neutral stand point. I have stated that ero's behavior wasn't great and borderline harrassment where I believe the line was stepped over on a few occasiond. I've just been trying to get my concerns addressed regarding this issue for about 300 pages now and all I get in respond is trolling from "White Knights"
1) You cant tell me that CCP didn't know what has been going on in the bonus round before now. The scam has been all over the forums since I started playing the begining of last year. Hell there is even a thread over in C&P that got locked a few weeks ago that linked this particular bonus round.
So for the 100th time between the 2 threads, Why the out cry now and not a long time ago?
2) Given from a neutral position of not caring either way. Both by the evidence presented here and the other thread (That being the origional recording, The blog post, CCP origional knowledge (Or should have been anyway) and the various replies to the thread (Minus the trolling), I think the only reasonable conclusion is this is a witch hunt.
Seriously as stated earlier in this thread and in the other, both by myself and others this was known issue long before this recording was ever taken. And if CCP wasn't they should have been when ISD was locking those threads. I mean ISD is suposed to be a volunteer group that is an extension to CCP right? Then if this was all god awful and CCP didn't know, why wasn't ISD forwarding copies of those threads to the game masters for investigation?
This is obviously a witch hunt for ero's head by the dude that wrote that blog for personal reasons. He stirred up a **** storm that incited a riot not only be alot of the eve community, but other gaming communities as well. Then CCP was pretty much forced into actioning ero's account weather they wanted to or not. This probably got the victims account actioned as well too...
If I am wrong I'm all ears for any counter proof you may have that doesn't involve taking a goons word for it. Its all I have been after this entire thread. Instead I end up getting stuck in circular arguments with everyone. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14663
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:53:00 -
[685] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:H aVo K wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote: If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone.
So anyone that kills miners/missioners in high sec is what youre saying. The guys that "farm tears" so Burn Jita, Hulkageddon, all that is forbidden now? Because " for no reason other than to goad [them], IS the ADVERTISED reason FOR those things. I guess it's that fine line between trying to torment them until they snap by absolving them of their isk/assets, vs. trying to torment them until they snap by rubbing salt in the wound for having done the former Kinda the point Im making. Thats a pretty fine line theyre trying to walk
As I said above; if you're unsure, then err on the side of caution.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
364
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:54:00 -
[686] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote: Your example is total crap, as nothing has changed wrt what you can do in game. What has been made clear is that taking it out of game and circumventing the EULA won't stop CCP from taking in game action.
Thanks for the tears though.
So dont use TS and youre good.
Then its all in game
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1456
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:54:00 -
[687] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:
Now, if Garamonde is continually seeking to target this particular player - across multiple star systems - in an effort to prevent the player from enjoying the game, then that's griefing imho and I'd expect a difference response from the GMs.
If Garamonde is being paid to hunt him down wherever he may be found, or he has done something unforgivable to Garamonde's beloved SMERG, Garamonde will shoot him no matter where he is.
I'm too lazy to go chasing him 20 jumps away, unless someone is giving me ISK to do it.
That is not griefing. That's called rivalry and/or revenge. I think you misunderstand what does or does not constitute "preventing him from enjoying the game". That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:54:00 -
[688] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Trebor, is freedom of speech inviolate or are you one of those that believes in 'hate speech'?
You see, for many of us we see freedoms like free speech and sandbox as absolute. Free speech laws were created to protect impolite speech, not polite speech.
Wrong. Freedom of speech, as codified in the U.S. Constitution, was created to protect speech which protested the actions of the government, without citizens having to fear reprisal from said government for voicing those opinions. It means that you can speak your mind about your government's actions without them imprisoning you (or worse) for expressing your views. It does not protect any and all speech ("say anything you want"), and any such claims to the contrary are a gross distortion of the intent of the founding fathers.
|
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
153
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:54:00 -
[689] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tell me where you think it is. I'm asking you, given that you're privy to the CSM/CCP discussions about this matter where that line is determined at. Well I'm not as smart as you so it would be super helpful to have your definition of where it lies; one that can't be rules-lawyered around or meta-gamed.
Again, I asked you. I'm not trying to rules-lawyer around something or meta-game. If you're more concerned with being a condescending prick because someone asked you a question be my guest. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
760
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:55:00 -
[690] - Quote
So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective?
I offer a closing scene from 'A Few Good [Scammers]'...
Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many].
You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son."
Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately.
F
Would you like to know more? |
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5537
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:56:00 -
[691] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's not really a fringe question. Singing for ransom is a VERY common practice, but it's also an out of game action and could just as easily be called harassment. How is calling for a ruling on a specific and common case anything to do with describing colours? The ruling specifically does not touch specific actions. CCP has not done anything against singing ransoms. This seems more targeted at prolonged interactions asking for more and more of the mark each time. Asking them to sing a song or two? Fine. Having them sing the song, demanding two more, then once those are finished, three more, and continuing until they refuse? Probably not so fine. !!!! Even in your little paragraph there! "probably". You can't have a rule of probablys. People definition of "over the line" varies wildly, as these threads prove. How can you possibly have a rule that is so loose and expect people to adhere to it? That's like driving down the road seeing lot's of speed signs that say "not too fast, but pretty fast", then getting pulled over for a ticket. It's just not reasonable. The speed limit is 70, enforceable at our discretion. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:56:00 -
[692] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:So can we get all emotional and act crazy to get people to vacate a station camp?
Weren't you quitting if E1 got banned?
No courage to stand behind your convictions?
Ripard agree with him or not did, Malcanis who stood in front of the galloping horde did...you ....are still here.
Let me dig through your posts, I could swear it was you. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2860
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:56:00 -
[693] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:You are being obtuse. Intentionally or not I have no idea. It has been a weird few days between the mayo revelations and all of the other headshakers forgive me if I seem skeptical.
Put plainly, you are asking a PLAYER rep who is on here to give us information to the best of his ability to answer complex hypothetical issues about rules. He is a player not a GM, thank him and move on. No, I'm asking a representative of the players who has spoken directly to CCP regarding this very matter to relay what he would consider their position to be. IF he does not know, it's his responsibility to say that and seek an answer from CCP. The players deserve to be given clear and concise ruling on matters where an infraction could cost them their ability to play.
All I want is clarity. Is that so much to ask? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2032
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:57:00 -
[694] - Quote
It's pretty obvious what they mean. Go and do another bonus room in the same vein as the one that started this. I bet you won't because it's likely to blow up again and there's a good possibility of you getting a ban.
It's not a cave in its a warning to check yourself before you try to outdo the last sociopaths sad little event. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14671
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:57:00 -
[695] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:You are being obtuse. Intentionally or not I have no idea. It has been a weird few days between the mayo revelations and all of the other headshakers forgive me if I seem skeptical.
Put plainly, you are asking a PLAYER rep who is on here to give us information to the best of his ability to answer complex hypothetical issues about rules. He is a player not a GM, thank him and move on. No, I'm asking a representative of the players who has spoken directly to CCP regarding this very matter to relay what he would consider their position to be. IF he does not know, it's his responsibility to say that and seek an answer from CCP. The players deserve to be given clear and concise ruling on matters where an infraction could cost them their ability to play. All I want is clarity. Is that so much to ask?
You've got all the clarity you're going to get. Suck it up, buttercup.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1457
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:57:00 -
[696] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:
I understood, full-well, what YOU were saying. My point that you missed is what steps are going to be take to ensure that carebears understand, completely, that this is not a "can't touch me" card, and that GM's will be properly educated on the subject. Will there be actions taken against carebears for trying to cheat the system? Will GM's be disciplined for handing out bans against gankers?
I've debated with you, before, Malcanis... you're intelligent enough to be far above subtly calling someone stupid. Don't degrade yourself, like that.
If I misunderstood you then I apologise. It has been a long goddamb week and I'm tired. I don't know how to make this any clearer than I already have: your right to boatviolence and spacevillainy has not been reduced by one picometer. If anything, it has been encouraging to see CCP's unconditional commitment to continuing to allow these. I have already stated above that anyone trying to claim "emotional trauma" merely for having their ship shot at or for accidentally buying a 5 billion ISK Iteron V or for handing over all their stuff to the helpful & friendly goonswarm recruiter whatever will get absolutely nowhere.
Thank you for clarifying. As a fellow player, though, I would caution you to outline for everyone's benefit, clear-cut examples of when the player claiming to be harassed is, in fact, "doing it to themselves". That was my argument during the E1 Threadnought, and that remains my primary argument, here. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2860
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:58:00 -
[697] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's not really a fringe question. Singing for ransom is a VERY common practice, but it's also an out of game action and could just as easily be called harassment. How is calling for a ruling on a specific and common case anything to do with describing colours? The ruling specifically does not touch specific actions. CCP has not done anything against singing ransoms. This seems more targeted at prolonged interactions asking for more and more of the mark each time. Asking them to sing a song or two? Fine. Having them sing the song, demanding two more, then once those are finished, three more, and continuing until they refuse? Probably not so fine. !!!! Even in your little paragraph there! "probably". You can't have a rule of probablys. People definition of "over the line" varies wildly, as these threads prove. How can you possibly have a rule that is so loose and expect people to adhere to it? That's like driving down the road seeing lot's of speed signs that say "not too fast, but pretty fast", then getting pulled over for a ticket. It's just not reasonable. The speed limit is 70, enforceable at our discretion. But it's not though is it. The speed limit is variable, enforced when the public demands it. It's clear from all of these threads that people definitions of "too far" vary to an absolutely staggering degree, so the rule of "don't go too far" is simply not clear enough. If they want to say "No taking scamming out of game" then they can say that. I'll back them whichever way they want to do it but they must be clear. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14671
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:58:00 -
[698] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:It's pretty obvious what they mean. Go and do another bonus room in the same vein as the one that started this. I bet you won't because it's likely to blow up again and there's a good possibility of you getting a ban.
It's not a cave in its a warning to check yourself before you try to outdo the last sociopaths sad little event.
Will wonders never cease: an IZ post that doesn't leave me facepalming.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:58:00 -
[699] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:You are being obtuse. Intentionally or not I have no idea. It has been a weird few days between the mayo revelations and all of the other headshakers forgive me if I seem skeptical.
Put plainly, you are asking a PLAYER rep who is on here to give us information to the best of his ability to answer complex hypothetical issues about rules. He is a player not a GM, thank him and move on. No, I'm asking a representative of the players who has spoken directly to CCP regarding this very matter to relay what he would consider their position to be. IF he does not know, it's his responsibility to say that and seek an answer from CCP. The players deserve to be given clear and concise ruling on matters where an infraction could cost them their ability to play. All I want is clarity. Is that so much to ask?
Yes, it is too much to ask. Leave the guy out of it and contact a GM with your concerns. The guy isn't your personal intermediary to CCP. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
385
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:58:00 -
[700] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:
Now, if Garamonde is continually seeking to target this particular player - across multiple star systems - in an effort to prevent the player from enjoying the game, then that's griefing imho and I'd expect a difference response from the GMs.
If Garamonde is being paid to hunt him down wherever he may be found, or he has done something unforgivable to Garamonde's beloved SMERG, Garamonde will shoot him no matter where he is. I'm too lazy to go chasing him 20 jumps away, unless someone is giving me ISK to do it. That is not griefing. That's called rivalry and/or revenge. I think you misunderstand what does or does not constitute "preventing him from enjoying the game".
Well, given your clarification that you wouldn't be following the player around, SMERG will continue to enjoy the loving embrace of Garamonde in your pod built for two, without GM attention.
|
|
Anslo
Scope Works
4611
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 20:59:00 -
[701] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective? I offer a closing scene from ' A Few Good [Scammers]'... Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many]. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son." Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately. F Why are you so mad? It's only a game. Perhaps you should step away for being so emotionally invested in a game.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
364
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:00:00 -
[702] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Not willfull ignorance.
People want a clear line so they can dance right up to it, Xenos paradox style
No, The line is in shadow, determined on a case by case basis. Dance near it and accept the risk or exercise some retraint and be risk free. You cvan still scam, strill explode ships, still awox
What I do not understand is why you WANT to do more
m
Ah, the CSM position is "if they want to ban you they will and Im fine with that" Why didnt you just say that?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1457
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:00:00 -
[703] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:
Now, if Garamonde is continually seeking to target this particular player - across multiple star systems - in an effort to prevent the player from enjoying the game, then that's griefing imho and I'd expect a difference response from the GMs.
If Garamonde is being paid to hunt him down wherever he may be found, or he has done something unforgivable to Garamonde's beloved SMERG, Garamonde will shoot him no matter where he is. I'm too lazy to go chasing him 20 jumps away, unless someone is giving me ISK to do it. That is not griefing. That's called rivalry and/or revenge. I think you misunderstand what does or does not constitute "preventing him from enjoying the game". Well, given your clarification that you wouldn't be following the player around, SMERG will continue to enjoy the loving embrace of Garamonde in your pod built for two, without GM attention.
What makes you think there are only two people in SMERG? :p That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2860
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:00:00 -
[704] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:You are being obtuse. Intentionally or not I have no idea. It has been a weird few days between the mayo revelations and all of the other headshakers forgive me if I seem skeptical.
Put plainly, you are asking a PLAYER rep who is on here to give us information to the best of his ability to answer complex hypothetical issues about rules. He is a player not a GM, thank him and move on. No, I'm asking a representative of the players who has spoken directly to CCP regarding this very matter to relay what he would consider their position to be. IF he does not know, it's his responsibility to say that and seek an answer from CCP. The players deserve to be given clear and concise ruling on matters where an infraction could cost them their ability to play. All I want is clarity. Is that so much to ask? You've got all the clarity you're going to get. Suck it up, buttercup. Thanks so much for the clarity there Mr representative of the player base. Thanks for addressing the concerns that several members of the eve community have and presenting them to CCP, and relaying information back to us.
Oh wait...
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Kaius Fero
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:00:00 -
[705] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Malcanis may have not been the CSM you wanteed but he was the one you deserved and I agree
He has been a hero in these threads.
Read back. He stood in front of the mob, demanding due process and then has been tryiong to explain to you that due process has now taken place
When things don't go your way don't blame Atticus Finch
m A hero? A hero you say?!
Now... can I ask this hero Malkanis and his wife in a round of glory hole? No mayo tho! |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
338
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:02:00 -
[706] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's not really a fringe question. Singing for ransom is a VERY common practice, but it's also an out of game action and could just as easily be called harassment. How is calling for a ruling on a specific and common case anything to do with describing colours? The ruling specifically does not touch specific actions. CCP has not done anything against singing ransoms. This seems more targeted at prolonged interactions asking for more and more of the mark each time. Asking them to sing a song or two? Fine. Having them sing the song, demanding two more, then once those are finished, three more, and continuing until they refuse? Probably not so fine. !!!! Even in your little paragraph there! "probably". You can't have a rule of probablys. People definition of "over the line" varies wildly, as these threads prove. How can you possibly have a rule that is so loose and expect people to adhere to it? That's like driving down the road seeing lot's of speed signs that say "not too fast, but pretty fast", then getting pulled over for a ticket. It's just not reasonable. What matters is demonstration of intent, the same as in criminal court. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14671
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:02:00 -
[707] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective? I offer a closing scene from ' A Few Good [Scammers]'... Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many]. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son." Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately. F
Well you've already stated you're not voting under any circumstances, so, you know, whatever.
Also CCP aren't going to disband the CSM no matter how mad you get. I bet that makes you pretty mad, huh?
1 Kings 12:11
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
364
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:03:00 -
[708] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:You are being obtuse. Intentionally or not I have no idea. It has been a weird few days between the mayo revelations and all of the other headshakers forgive me if I seem skeptical.
Put plainly, you are asking a PLAYER rep who is on here to give us information to the best of his ability to answer complex hypothetical issues about rules. He is a player not a GM, thank him and move on. No, I'm asking a representative of the players who has spoken directly to CCP regarding this very matter to relay what he would consider their position to be. IF he does not know, it's his responsibility to say that and seek an answer from CCP. The players deserve to be given clear and concise ruling on matters where an infraction could cost them their ability to play. All I want is clarity. Is that so much to ask?
Apparently, yes. They just want their free reign to ban for anything at any time. Dont CCP already have that though? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:03:00 -
[709] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective? I offer a closing scene from ' A Few Good [Scammers]'... Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many]. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son." Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately. F Why are you so mad? It's only a game. Perhaps you should step away for being so emotionally invested in a game.
His play-style that isn't being threatened is being fake threatened in his own mind and he has come on here to vent his insecurities over what will happen when CCP doesn't ban ganking.
It's very real to him. What you see here is a sub-conscious venting of insecurity mixed with a cry for help.
A.K.A whining, crying, whingeing
See also: tear extraction |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2860
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:04:00 -
[710] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's not really a fringe question. Singing for ransom is a VERY common practice, but it's also an out of game action and could just as easily be called harassment. How is calling for a ruling on a specific and common case anything to do with describing colours? The ruling specifically does not touch specific actions. CCP has not done anything against singing ransoms. This seems more targeted at prolonged interactions asking for more and more of the mark each time. Asking them to sing a song or two? Fine. Having them sing the song, demanding two more, then once those are finished, three more, and continuing until they refuse? Probably not so fine. !!!! Even in your little paragraph there! "probably". You can't have a rule of probablys. People definition of "over the line" varies wildly, as these threads prove. How can you possibly have a rule that is so loose and expect people to adhere to it? That's like driving down the road seeing lot's of speed signs that say "not too fast, but pretty fast", then getting pulled over for a ticket. It's just not reasonable. What matters is demonstration of intent, the same as in criminal court. And again, that will rarely be clear cut.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14671
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:04:00 -
[711] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:You are being obtuse. Intentionally or not I have no idea. It has been a weird few days between the mayo revelations and all of the other headshakers forgive me if I seem skeptical.
Put plainly, you are asking a PLAYER rep who is on here to give us information to the best of his ability to answer complex hypothetical issues about rules. He is a player not a GM, thank him and move on. No, I'm asking a representative of the players who has spoken directly to CCP regarding this very matter to relay what he would consider their position to be. IF he does not know, it's his responsibility to say that and seek an answer from CCP. The players deserve to be given clear and concise ruling on matters where an infraction could cost them their ability to play. All I want is clarity. Is that so much to ask? You've got all the clarity you're going to get. Suck it up, buttercup. Thanks so much for the clarity there Mr representative of the player base. Thanks for addressing the concerns that several members of the eve community have and presenting them to CCP, and relaying information back to us. Oh wait...
Hope this helps
Sorry that EVE criminal law isn't any more clear cut that real life.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
39
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:05:00 -
[712] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Well you've already stated you're not voting under any circumstances, so, you know, whatever.
Also CCP aren't going to disband the CSM no matter how mad you get. I bet that makes you pretty mad, huh?
But but but.. he said it in the form of a play. It must be true! W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
947
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:05:00 -
[713] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Ah, the CSM position is "if they want to ban you they will and Im fine with that" Why didnt you just say that?
Because that is not what I said or meant.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Kaius Fero
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:05:00 -
[714] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective? I offer a closing scene from ' A Few Good [Scammers]'... Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many]. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son." Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately. F Well you've already stated you're not voting under any circumstances, so, you know, whatever. Also CCP aren't going to disband the CSM no matter how mad you get. I bet that makes you pretty mad, huh? I fukin love you! And your family! :) Yes.. I'm a perv ... I should be a goon, a lite bee :) |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:06:00 -
[715] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective? I offer a closing scene from ' A Few Good [Scammers]'... Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many]. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son." Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately. F
LOL, had to laugh at this, best thing I have read in 400+ pages of garbage
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14680
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:07:00 -
[716] - Quote
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tell me where you think it is. I'm asking you, given that you're privy to the CSM/CCP discussions about this matter where that line is determined at. Well I'm not as smart as you so it would be super helpful to have your definition of where it lies; one that can't be rules-lawyered around or meta-gamed. Again, I asked you. I'm not trying to rules-lawyer around something or meta-game. If you're more concerned with being a condescending prick because someone asked you a question be my guest.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. I think you're lying because I've repeatedly explained how the line is defined, and you've ignored that because you want a definition you can attack.
Don't worry, your FCs aren't going to be banned for... emphatically criticising you on alliance comms. That specific issue was definitely covered.
1 Kings 12:11
|
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
76
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:07:00 -
[717] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote: Sorry this may have been over the top but this thread is driving me nuts. People have been saying links of this and links of that and not giving them up.
I actually am trying to look at this from a neutral stand point. I have stated that ero's behavior wasn't great and borderline harrassment where I believe the line was stepped over on a few occasiond. I've just been trying to get my concerns addressed regarding this issue for about 300 pages now and all I get in respond is trolling from "White Knights"
1) You cant tell me that CCP didn't know what has been going on in the bonus round before now. The scam has been all over the forums since I started playing the begining of last year. Hell there is even a thread over in C&P that got locked a few weeks ago that linked this particular bonus round.
So for the 100th time between the 2 threads, Why the out cry now and not a long time ago?
2) Given from a neutral position of not caring either way. Both by the evidence presented here and the other thread (That being the origional recording, The blog post, CCP origional knowledge (Or should have been anyway) and the various replies to the thread (Minus the trolling), I think the only reasonable conclusion is this is a witch hunt.
Seriously as stated earlier in this thread and in the other, both by myself and others this was known issue long before this recording was ever taken. And if CCP wasn't they should have been when ISD was locking those threads. I mean ISD is suposed to be a volunteer group that is an extension to CCP right? Then if this was all god awful and CCP didn't know, why wasn't ISD forwarding copies of those threads to the game masters for investigation?
This is obviously a witch hunt for ero's head by the dude that wrote that blog for personal reasons. He stirred up a **** storm that incited a riot not only be alot of the eve community, but other gaming communities as well. Then CCP was pretty much forced into actioning ero's account weather they wanted to or not. This probably got the victims account actioned as well too...
If I am wrong I'm all ears for any counter proof you may have that doesn't involve taking a goons word for it. Its all I have been after this entire thread. Instead I end up getting stuck in circular arguments with everyone.
Why no answer as to "why now?"
simple: because there's a fine line between "listening to their customers" and "caving to the masses"
Just like the fine line between immoral behaviour, and immoral behaviour that warrants a ban |
Lupe Meza
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:07:00 -
[718] - Quote
Bravo CCP. Bravo. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2866
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:08:00 -
[719] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hope this helpsSorry that EVE criminal law isn't any more clear cut that real life. Except in real life, they have laws, you know, rules. They don't just say "don't be mean".
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2537
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:09:00 -
[720] - Quote
Looks like E1 is banned, at least temporarily, at least on that account. Guess it was kind of inevitable given the bonus rounds continued despite the warning e1 got over that Rayne guy. I'm still not convinced that being mean to someone on your own teamspeak constitutes real life harassment, but I do understand that CCP is not pleased someone would use Eve assets and the eve environment as a lever to ... engage in that kind cruel behavior. I'm disappointed that our communal understanding of harassment is no clearer now than it was before, and that the best explanation we could get came from the CSM rather than a blue. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with CCP dealing with such things on a case by case basis and reserving for themselves as much leeway as possible.
Malcanis wrote: As I said above; if you're unsure, then err on the side of caution.
More like, continue abusing people on TS all you want, just be sure to not brag about it and also DENY EVERYTHING. This case was a bit unusual in that there was never any question of the veracity of the recording. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
|
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
76
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:09:00 -
[721] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Not willfull ignorance.
People want a clear line so they can dance right up to it, Xenos paradox style
or they want a clear line so that they don't accidentally plow through it? |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
385
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:10:00 -
[722] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:
Now, if Garamonde is continually seeking to target this particular player - across multiple star systems - in an effort to prevent the player from enjoying the game, then that's griefing imho and I'd expect a difference response from the GMs.
If Garamonde is being paid to hunt him down wherever he may be found, or he has done something unforgivable to Garamonde's beloved SMERG, Garamonde will shoot him no matter where he is. I'm too lazy to go chasing him 20 jumps away, unless someone is giving me ISK to do it. That is not griefing. That's called rivalry and/or revenge. I think you misunderstand what does or does not constitute "preventing him from enjoying the game". Well, given your clarification that you wouldn't be following the player around, SMERG will continue to enjoy the loving embrace of Garamonde in your pod built for two, without GM attention. What makes you think there are only two people in SMERG? :p
Ooops, my bad! I thought you were RP'ing a space romance and not talking about a corp.
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
783
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:10:00 -
[723] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective? I offer a closing scene from ' A Few Good [Scammers]'... Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many]. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son." Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately. F Well you've already stated you're not voting under any circumstances, so, you know, whatever. Also CCP aren't going to disband the CSM no matter how mad you get. I bet that makes you pretty mad, huh?
Why are you torturing your fellow player? I'm sure it not only makes him feel very sad/bad it also makes me sad/mad.
Anyhow, So you invented new lines, don't want to tell the players where they are or they might try and sidestep them, tell the players to go out and be the villan and when someone does: BAM, BANNED! On top of that, the CSM members that have spoken on the subject all seem to be either trolling or completely oblivious on what the problem is.
A sad day indeed.
Well, as long as your lowlife trolling and BS doesn't become the norm, I'm still happy to have CCP Guard wrote: In almost all instances similar to what you describe, we would advise you to contact local authorities if you feel threatened or if you feel that laws have been broken. It's not common that events taking place outside the game or our websites result in disciplinary action from us due to obvious reasons, but we do reserve the right to restrict access to your services when we find them to be used for violating the EULA. Players are of course always welcome to contact us and ask for advice or assistance.
Eula hasn't been violated. Nobody has been threatened and no laws have been broken. The ban is just an early April's fool's joke, I'm sure.
D.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14680
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:11:00 -
[724] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Looks like E1 is banned, at least temporarily, at least on that account. Guess it was kind of inevitable given the bonus rounds continued despite the warning e1 got over that Rayne guy. I'm still not convinced that being mean to someone on your own teamspeak constitutes real life harassment, but I do understand that CCP is not pleased someone would use Eve assets and the eve environment as a lever to ... engage in that kind cruel behavior. I'm disappointed that our communal understanding of harassment is no clearer now than it was before, and that the best explanation we could get came from the CSM rather than a blue. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with CCP dealing with such things on a case by case basis and reserving for themselves as much leeway as possible. Malcanis wrote: As I said above; if you're unsure, then err on the side of caution.
More like, continue abusing people on TS all you want, just be sure to not brag about it and also DENY EVERYTHING. This case was a bit unusual in that there was never any question of the veracity of the recording.
Not getting caught is a pretty good defence until it isn't.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2866
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:11:00 -
[725] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tell me where you think it is. I'm asking you, given that you're privy to the CSM/CCP discussions about this matter where that line is determined at. Well I'm not as smart as you so it would be super helpful to have your definition of where it lies; one that can't be rules-lawyered around or meta-gamed. Again, I asked you. I'm not trying to rules-lawyer around something or meta-game. If you're more concerned with being a condescending prick because someone asked you a question be my guest. I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. I think you're lying because I've repeatedly explained how the line is defined, and you've ignored that because you want a definition you can attack. Don't worry, your FCs aren't going to be banned for... emphatically criticising you on alliance comms. That specific issue was definitely covered. So if you've clearly defined the lines, is it against the rules to ransom for a song, and if a "victim" of the ransom were to feel harassed, would that mean it's over the line? How many songs are "too many"?
If it's so clear, it will be pretty straightforward to answer right? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
494
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:11:00 -
[726] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:You are being obtuse. Intentionally or not I have no idea. It has been a weird few days between the mayo revelations and all of the other headshakers forgive me if I seem skeptical.
Put plainly, you are asking a PLAYER rep who is on here to give us information to the best of his ability to answer complex hypothetical issues about rules. He is a player not a GM, thank him and move on. No, I'm asking a representative of the players who has spoken directly to CCP regarding this very matter to relay what he would consider their position to be. IF he does not know, it's his responsibility to say that and seek an answer from CCP. The players deserve to be given clear and concise ruling on matters where an infraction could cost them their ability to play. All I want is clarity. Is that so much to ask? You've got all the clarity you're going to get. Suck it up, buttercup. Thanks so much for the clarity there Mr representative of the player base. Thanks for addressing the concerns that several members of the eve community have and presenting them to CCP, and relaying information back to us. Oh wait...
I think you missed the part where it's information and an answer even if you don't agree with it. |
Tyrant Scorn
145
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:11:00 -
[727] - Quote
Ok, here is a question for all of you.
So, the debate has been going on ever since that Erotica1 thing happened and half the community is in an uproar over what he's done to this poor guy... But he used fair game mechanics and he never used any hostile language doing it all.
The guy who got scammed is actually the one who is offensive and using all sorts of threats and curse words.
Who is actually breaking the rules in this particular case ? Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Jack Lennox
Killing With a Smile
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:12:00 -
[728] - Quote
Test post to make sure I can still post
KWAS is now recruiting!-á Incursion Running, L4 Missions, Orca boosts for mining, and small gang WH PvE/PvP |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:13:00 -
[729] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:Not willfull ignorance.
People want a clear line so they can dance right up to it, Xenos paradox style or they want a clear line so that they don't accidentally plow through it?
I saw someone write this earlier "If the scam feels too good than it's probably too good to be legal" |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
40
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:13:00 -
[730] - Quote
And I have to say, having sat through pages and pages of tripe about the tears being shed for the victims of harrassment and the tears soon to be shed by those who favour vaguely civilized behaviour IRL the irony (in the modern rather than classical sense) is bitterly amusing here given the tears being shed by folks who want a line drawn in the sand so they can walk just one side of it be be not-quite-abhorrent-enough-to-ban.
Seriously, as with most of life, if the answer to "will I get into deep trouble for doing this?" is "I don't know". They the response should probably be not to do it. Or expect to suffer the consequences. Seriously - is that so hard a concept? Or is it just to gritty a thought that you have to cope with a little bit of grey rather than black or white? W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
|
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1629
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:13:00 -
[731] - Quote
I'd like to think that the definition of "harassment" involves at least a little non-consent beyond "he used jedi mind tricks on me." Since E1 has said he's been banned, that apparently isn't so. So it seems whether you harrased someone or not mostly (entirely) depends on how they felt about the experience. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:14:00 -
[732] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:Ok, here is a question for all of you.
So, the debate has been going on ever since that Erotica1 thing happened and half the community is in an uproar over what he's done to this poor guy... But he used fair game mechanics and he never used any hostile language doing it all.
The guy who got scammed is actually the one who is offensive and using all sorts of threats and curse words.
Who is actually breaking the rules in this particular case ?
Hellman's, Ready Whip and Jiffy all broke rules as I understood the thread |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4564
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:15:00 -
[733] - Quote
This thread is proof that no matter how many times and how hard you explain simple things to some people, they, wanting things to be a certain way, will never reach an understanding.
I expect to see someone post of video of themselves holding their breath and stomping their feet.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2866
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:15:00 -
[734] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:I think you missed the part where it's information and an answer even if you don't agree with it. OK, so point me to "the answer". Point me to where it states what is considered by CCP as "too far". Since the definition varies wildly from person to person, scamming and messing with people will become the equivalent of spinning in circles with a blindfold on throwing darts in a crowded pub. If you don;t hit anyone, it's blind luck.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
156
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:15:00 -
[735] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tell me where you think it is. I'm asking you, given that you're privy to the CSM/CCP discussions about this matter where that line is determined at. Well I'm not as smart as you so it would be super helpful to have your definition of where it lies; one that can't be rules-lawyered around or meta-gamed. Again, I asked you. I'm not trying to rules-lawyer around something or meta-game. If you're more concerned with being a condescending prick because someone asked you a question be my guest. I'm sorry, but I don't believe you. I think you're lying because I've repeatedly explained how the line is defined, and you've ignored that because you want a definition you can attack. Don't worry, your FCs aren't going to be banned for... emphatically criticising you on alliance comms. That specific issue was definitely covered.
So your flawed and made up assumptions are reason enough to hurl ad hominem? Tsk Tsk Malcanis, and here I thought you weren't so quick to being defensive.
As I said, I genuinely am not looking for something to attack, only for clarification. If you could link to the specific post which you feel covers my question then do so, I personally don't have the time to waste sifting through 40 pages of two CSM members sperging at other people who are sperging back. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:15:00 -
[736] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I'd like to think that the definition of "harassment" involves at least a little non-consent beyond "he used jedi mind tricks on me." Since E1 has said he's been banned, that apparently isn't so. So it seems whether you harrased someone or not mostly (entirely) depends on how they felt about the experience.
I would like the definition of "bad touches'. Can you help? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
364
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:15:00 -
[737] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:You are being obtuse. Intentionally or not I have no idea. It has been a weird few days between the mayo revelations and all of the other headshakers forgive me if I seem skeptical.
Put plainly, you are asking a PLAYER rep who is on here to give us information to the best of his ability to answer complex hypothetical issues about rules. He is a player not a GM, thank him and move on. No, I'm asking a representative of the players who has spoken directly to CCP regarding this very matter to relay what he would consider their position to be. IF he does not know, it's his responsibility to say that and seek an answer from CCP. The players deserve to be given clear and concise ruling on matters where an infraction could cost them their ability to play. All I want is clarity. Is that so much to ask? You've got all the clarity you're going to get. Suck it up, buttercup. Thanks so much for the clarity there Mr representative of the player base. Thanks for addressing the concerns that several members of the eve community have and presenting them to CCP, and relaying information back to us. Oh wait...
Thats not what the CSM are for. Theyre supposed to watchdog CCP.
Oh wait... http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER CODE.
150
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:15:00 -
[738] - Quote
It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
367
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:16:00 -
[739] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective? I offer a closing scene from ' A Few Good [Scammers]'... Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many]. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son." Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately. F Well you've already stated you're not voting under any circumstances, so, you know, whatever. Also CCP aren't going to disband the CSM no matter how mad you get. I bet that makes you pretty mad, huh?
Careful man, he may lose control, and youd get permabanned rofl http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
338
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:16:00 -
[740] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's not really a fringe question. Singing for ransom is a VERY common practice, but it's also an out of game action and could just as easily be called harassment. How is calling for a ruling on a specific and common case anything to do with describing colours? The ruling specifically does not touch specific actions. CCP has not done anything against singing ransoms. This seems more targeted at prolonged interactions asking for more and more of the mark each time. Asking them to sing a song or two? Fine. Having them sing the song, demanding two more, then once those are finished, three more, and continuing until they refuse? Probably not so fine. !!!! Even in your little paragraph there! "probably". You can't have a rule of probablys. People definition of "over the line" varies wildly, as these threads prove. How can you possibly have a rule that is so loose and expect people to adhere to it? That's like driving down the road seeing lot's of speed signs that say "not too fast, but pretty fast", then getting pulled over for a ticket. It's just not reasonable. What matters is demonstration of intent, the same as in criminal court. And again, that will rarely be clear cut. And yet society survives. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
|
Valda Abia
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:17:00 -
[741] - Quote
Finally, Gevlon Goblin will get the justice he so rightfully deserves for being asked to sing to protect his assets. No longer will that yoke of oppression be cast around his pencil-thin neck!
That's what this is about, right? |
Tyrant Scorn
146
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:17:00 -
[742] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Ok, here is a question for all of you.
So, the debate has been going on ever since that Erotica1 thing happened and half the community is in an uproar over what he's done to this poor guy... But he used fair game mechanics and he never used any hostile language doing it all.
The guy who got scammed is actually the one who is offensive and using all sorts of threats and curse words.
Who is actually breaking the rules in this particular case ? Hellman's, Ready Whip and Jiffy all broke rules as I understood the thread
How did they break the rules ? Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:19:00 -
[743] - Quote
Alyth Nerun wrote:It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game.
citation needed. This isn't the bonus room, Sonny. You can't just drop a stat and expect us to believe it. Where is your source? Produce it or go bump a miner. |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:19:00 -
[744] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective? I offer a closing scene from ' A Few Good [Scammers]'... Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many]. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son." Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately. F LOL, had to laugh at this, best thing I have read in 400+ pages of garbage
I had a good laugh too but not for the same warped reasons you did. There has been a lot of great things in those 400 pages. Plenty of great people who came forward and would not let something as morally corrupt as what Erotica 1 did go un noticed. My faith in CCP and the community of this game has increased. You are mad for no reason. Nothing in the game has been changed only what you shouldn't do according to the existing rules have been enforced. Get over yourself.
|
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
385
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:19:00 -
[745] - Quote
Alyth Nerun wrote:It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game.
Mate, get another cushion for your chair 'cos all I'm hearing is butt hurt.
Jump in a ship, get out there and blow stuff up, scam, awox, commit corp theft ..... in time, you'll feel 100% better. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5539
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:20:00 -
[746] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hope this helpsSorry that EVE criminal law isn't any more clear cut that real life. Except in real life, they have laws, you know, rules. They don't just say "don't be mean". Rules which need to be examined in each individual case to see if they apply.
We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.
Even in the strictest laws, there are layers of interpretation to be considered and debated... ultimately to be decided upon by a jury or a judge.
Writing a thousand variations of a given rule (law) to cover every possible situation is impossible... there would always be loopholes and is an impractical concept to begin with. That's why laws and a system to interpret how applicable they are was developed long ago.
I don't have an issue with CCP using their discretion in this, after all it is their game and their rules... and frankly I can even escalate the issue higher if I feel I've been treated unfairly.
This is the wisest, and most practical way of addressing the problem as a whole instead of as a single specific incident. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14689
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:20:00 -
[747] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So if you've clearly defined the lines, is it against the rules to ransom for a song, and if a "victim" of the ransom were to feel harassed, would that mean it's over the line? How many songs are "too many"?
If it's so clear, it will be pretty straightforward to answer right?
Do you think you're capable of detecting when you're pushing another human being over the line?
1 Kings 12:11
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
367
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:20:00 -
[748] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Batelle wrote:Looks like E1 is banned, at least temporarily, at least on that account. Guess it was kind of inevitable given the bonus rounds continued despite the warning e1 got over that Rayne guy. I'm still not convinced that being mean to someone on your own teamspeak constitutes real life harassment, but I do understand that CCP is not pleased someone would use Eve assets and the eve environment as a lever to ... engage in that kind cruel behavior. I'm disappointed that our communal understanding of harassment is no clearer now than it was before, and that the best explanation we could get came from the CSM rather than a blue. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with CCP dealing with such things on a case by case basis and reserving for themselves as much leeway as possible. Malcanis wrote: As I said above; if you're unsure, then err on the side of caution.
More like, continue abusing people on TS all you want, just be sure to not brag about it and also DENY EVERYTHING. This case was a bit unusual in that there was never any question of the veracity of the recording. Not getting caught is a pretty good defence until it isn't.
AAAAH I get it, you can do whatever you want, just torture the victim till he wont tattle. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:21:00 -
[749] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:[quote=Ban Bindy]OK, so point me to "the answer". Point me to where it states what is considered by CCP as "too far". Since the definition varies wildly from person to person, scamming and messing with people will become the equivalent of spinning in circles with a blindfold on throwing darts in a crowded pub. If you don;t hit anyone, it's blind luck.
I don't know how many more times specific answers to vague hypothetical questions are going to be demanded, but real-life lawyers don't give or get those, not even in court. Amateur space lawyers aren't going to get them here.
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
44
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:22:00 -
[750] - Quote
Alyth Nerun wrote:It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game.
More pew pew and less qq? Seriously, if you don't liek CCP's rules and the way that they apply them then there's plenty of other games out there... W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
|
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:22:00 -
[751] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:[quote=Lucas Kell][quote=Vance Armistice]Stuff.... More stuff Hope this helpsSorry that EVE criminal law isn't any more clear cut that real life.
The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's, his was the extreme. For the most part people feel a bit silly that they were scammed and given the run around in a game where that is to be expected. At no point does Erotica or anyone else insult or threaten anyone (ie real harassment), nor do they even talk in a condescending tone, unlike your replies to most dissenting views. Hardly the same can be said of Sokhar. No one can predict reactions like Sokhar's, not to mention were totally omitting the part Sokhar plays in continuing to expose himself to terrifying, torturous song requests well after he knew he'd been scammed. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14689
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:22:00 -
[752] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcanis wrote:Batelle wrote:Looks like E1 is banned, at least temporarily, at least on that account. Guess it was kind of inevitable given the bonus rounds continued despite the warning e1 got over that Rayne guy. I'm still not convinced that being mean to someone on your own teamspeak constitutes real life harassment, but I do understand that CCP is not pleased someone would use Eve assets and the eve environment as a lever to ... engage in that kind cruel behavior. I'm disappointed that our communal understanding of harassment is no clearer now than it was before, and that the best explanation we could get came from the CSM rather than a blue. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with CCP dealing with such things on a case by case basis and reserving for themselves as much leeway as possible. Malcanis wrote: As I said above; if you're unsure, then err on the side of caution.
More like, continue abusing people on TS all you want, just be sure to not brag about it and also DENY EVERYTHING. This case was a bit unusual in that there was never any question of the veracity of the recording. Not getting caught is a pretty good defence until it isn't. AAAAH I get it, you can do whatever you want, just torture the victim till he wont tattle.
I hope you're not disappointed with the results if you try this.
Can you tell me what activity you're worried that you won't be able to do?
1 Kings 12:11
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:22:00 -
[753] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Alyth Nerun wrote:It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game. Mate, get another cushion for your chair 'cos all I'm hearing is butt hurt. Jump in a ship, get out there and blow stuff up, scam, awox, commit corp theft ..... in time, you'll feel 100% better.
He sure seems delicate. I guess the CODE is recruiting based on sensitvity. Is this the kinder, gentler CODE?
Maybe it is now minerhugging.com?
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4566
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:22:00 -
[754] - Quote
Batelle wrote:
More like, continue abusing people on TS all you want, just be sure to not brag about it and also DENY EVERYTHING. .
That's unrealistic.
Sadistically abusing people is only half the game for these sick fucks. They can't help but then brag about their triumphs. They need to try and cultivate as many low I.Q. sycophants as they can acquire. On top of that, they honestly feel (in their broken little brains), that they are doing nothing wrong. So they will never try to hide their actions as they feel no shame for them.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14689
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:23:00 -
[755] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's
Yes it was.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
785
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:23:00 -
[756] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.
We now have a post from a CSM that says as much. NO RULE as of yet. We are also banning people who broke said "rule" before it was written by said CSM.
Keep up, please.
D.
|
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
78
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:24:00 -
[757] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:And I have to say, having sat through pages and pages of tripe about the tears being shed for the victims of harrassment and the tears soon to be shed by those who favour vaguely civilized behaviour IRL the irony (in the modern rather than classical sense) is bitterly amusing here given the tears being shed by folks who want a line drawn in the sand so they can walk just one side of it be be not-quite-abhorrent-enough-to-ban.
Seriously, as with most of life, if the answer to "will I get into deep trouble for doing this?" is "I don't know". They the response should probably be not to do it. Or expect to suffer the consequences. Seriously - is that so hard a concept? Or is it just to gritty a thought that you have to cope with a little bit of grey rather than black or white?
One time, when I thought about trying to make isk by running courier contracts around (shudder), I saw a contract that looked like the collateral was simply too low for the amount of m3. So I accepted it, realized it was worth far more than the collateral, and kept it.
That's the only "scam" I've ever run in this game.
I do like to partake of local smack from time to time, though.
However, apart from all that, I don't really have a dog in this fight, except for wanting the sandbox to... well... y'know... remain a sandbox n stuff.
Despite that pretty "white" background of mine, though... I have a problem with everything you're posting: You're claiming that those who do operate in that darkened moral sphere are clearly monsters, and that, because they can't claim to have any sort of moral high ground at all, that their opinions are worthless.
And yet... they operate in that darkened moral sphere in a game that's advertised thusly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I
When CCP says "COME PLAY EVE! YOU CAN BE THE BADDIE!!!111" and then bans someone for being too much of a baddie... well... I find it somewhat shocking that those who play that role would be told to STFU when they ask for clarification. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
785
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:24:00 -
[758] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's
Yes it was.
Bull. ****. And you know it.
D.
|
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:25:00 -
[759] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's
Yes it was.
Then it's a spectacular failure considering that was the only reaction that extreme. |
Tyrant Scorn
146
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:25:00 -
[760] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Ok, here is a question for all of you.
So, the debate has been going on ever since that Erotica1 thing happened and half the community is in an uproar over what he's done to this poor guy... But he used fair game mechanics and he never used any hostile language doing it all.
The guy who got scammed is actually the one who is offensive and using all sorts of threats and curse words.
Who is actually breaking the rules in this particular case ? Hellman's, Ready Whip and Jiffy all broke rules as I understood the thread
Can anyone break down for me who broke what rules ? because to me it sounds like the guy going berserk is the one breaking the rules in terms of making threats and using very hostile language...
Malcanis, maybe you can elaborate on this ? Since you seem very active in this topic. Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:25:00 -
[761] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's
Yes it was.
To the point that it was sufficiently well thought of to be worth publically posting W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Valda Abia
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:26:00 -
[762] - Quote
So if an FC gives a bad order over TS which causes someone to lose a ship and that causes them undue emotional distress, is that FC liable to be banned?
I'm asking for a friend. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:27:00 -
[763] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:This is obviously a witch hunt for ero's head by the dude that wrote that blog for personal reasons. He stirred up a **** storm that incited a riot not only be alot of the eve community, but other gaming communities as well. Then CCP was pretty much forced into actioning ero's account weather they wanted to or not. This probably got the victims account actioned as well too... Yes, he started a ****storm, but I don't think it's logical to conclude it was for personal reasons. Obviously, there are people who want to believe that -- and for us to believe it, as well -- to discredit criticism of their "content" or emergent gameplay.
I think it took a while for anything to get done because the forums are a big place and the blogosphere even bigger. Just because there's a dustup in one area doesn't mean it's universally known about. In the chat with Sohkar last night, it turned out he didn't know much about the thread or even about the CSM.
Even if Ripard knew about this a month ago (and I have no idea when he actually found out), do you seriously blame the guy for getting his ducks in a row first before coming out against it in public?
This "Oh, it's been going on forever so objecting to it now = personal vendetta" thing doesn't hold water.
The Bonus Room activities smell wrong to a number of people. I swear, when I heard those audios, the first thing that came to mind was the squeal like a pig scene in Deliverance. (Yeah, yeah, I know there are no guns or knives or sexual assault in the Bonus Room, but the vibe is similar.) |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5541
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:27:00 -
[764] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.
We now have a post from a CSM that says as much. NO RULE as of yet. We are also banning people who broke said "rule" before it was written by said CSM. Keep up, please. D. Ahhh, no. We have a clarification of a long existing rule.
Just keeping things in perspective. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
66
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:27:00 -
[765] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:You are being obtuse. Intentionally or not I have no idea. It has been a weird few days between the mayo revelations and all of the other headshakers forgive me if I seem skeptical.
Put plainly, you are asking a PLAYER rep who is on here to give us information to the best of his ability to answer complex hypothetical issues about rules. He is a player not a GM, thank him and move on. No, I'm asking a representative of the players who has spoken directly to CCP regarding this very matter to relay what he would consider their position to be. IF he does not know, it's his responsibility to say that and seek an answer from CCP. The players deserve to be given clear and concise ruling on matters where an infraction could cost them their ability to play. All I want is clarity. Is that so much to ask? Apparently, yes. They just want their free reign to ban for anything at any time. Dont CCP already have that though?
yes, which is exactly why further clarification in detail will never be forthcoming. If you set very clear guidelines it makes it easy to do something that might be wholly questionable or inappropriate but because it is not expressly forbidden by the ToS say "well I did nothing against your rules"
Thus to prevent those cases and to leave CCP holding all the cards they make a legalese statement that is somewhat open ended and gives them the freedom to do what ever floats their boat in dodgy situations without having to appear to have succumbed to outside pressure. It basically allows them to keep their reputation and integrity in tact whilst still being seen to police their own game in the eyes of the outsiders.
|
Doireen Kaundur
440
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:27:00 -
[766] - Quote
Final score:
CCP: 1 Internet psychos: 0
It is a good day in New Eden. Minimizing the cost of replacing implants.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14710
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:28:00 -
[767] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's
Yes it was. Bull. ****. And you know it. D.
They already had ALL of his stuff. They literally had nothing left to gain from him IN GAME.
So yeah no, you're the bullshitter.
And you know it.
And CCP agree with me, so as previously advised, suck it up buttercup. I'm in 319- if you want to make something of it.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1458
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:29:00 -
[768] - Quote
Valda Abia wrote:So if an FC gives a bad order over TS which causes someone to lose a ship and that causes them undue emotional distress, is that FC liable to be banned?
I'm asking for a friend.
Yeah, and I was just holding that little bag of "medicinal herbs" for someone else..... That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Tyrant Scorn
150
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:29:00 -
[769] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
They already had ALL of his stuff. They literally had nothing left to gain from him IN GAME.
So yeah no, you're the bullshitter.
And you know it.
And CCP agree with me, so as previously advised, suck it up buttercup. I'm in 319- if you want to make something of it.
Can you please answer my question mate ? Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Talon SilverHawk
Ronin Cartel The G0dfathers
655
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:30:00 -
[770] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:In general, where are we drawing the line, here? I answered this question a few pages page. The short answer is that the person controlling the situation has the responsibility to see that it doesn't go too far. I assume that you're sufficiently intelligent to determine when you're about to push someone over the line. This most specifically does not include in game actions: if someone goes into a screaming meltdown because you blew his ship up, then too bad for him. If you continue to interact with him and goad him for no reason other than to goad him, then you're in the red zone. Scam all you like. Gank all you like. Spy all you like. Awox all you like. Excercise judgement & discretion when rubbing salt into the wound afterwards. Is that so hard to understand? Oh please, I'm sure some of my ganking victims have flew off the wall as hard as some bonus room victims did, why is it so different whether the cause of that was in game mechanics or having to sing 1 song too many in TS for their pixels?
Its about knowing when to draw the line whats so difficult about that ? It says more about you if you get a hard on making other ppl miserable for ***** and giggles ...
Can't believe ppl are still arguing in favor of it or see nothing wrong with what happened, you should seek help ...
Tal
|
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14710
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:30:00 -
[771] - Quote
Valda Abia wrote:So if an FC gives a bad order over TS which causes someone to lose a ship and that causes them undue emotional distress, is that FC liable to be banned?
I'm asking for a friend.
he absolutely is not.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Ahost Gceo
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:30:00 -
[772] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's
Yes it was. Bull. ****. And you know it. D.
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means. I don't discriminate, I hate everyone equally. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3381
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:30:00 -
[773] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Jesus buddy, how long do you plan on protecting Sohkar to death? If you truly think that my actions are directed towards any single player (in either a protective or punitive manner), then you clearly do not understand the nature of my role as a member of the CSM.
Kaius Fero wrote:Here is a direct question to you as a fail politician ... give me a really good reason why ANY eve players should vote! Why obviously, you should vote to ensure that fail politicians like me don't get re-elected. If you don't vote, don't *****.
Mario Putzo wrote:We can draw arbitrary lines all over the sandbox. It would be nice to know at what point we reach the limits of the sandbox, so EVERYONE knows where that line is, otherwise it amounts to personal opinion, and that changes from me to you, to the next guy, even CCP Employees have differing individual opinions. Welcome to the real world. It would be nice for me if I knew at all times exactly how much over the speed limit I can go, but I can't. If I want to push it, I have to be prepared to take my lumps and pay the ticket. If you want to test where the limits of EVE behavior are, be prepared to wake up one day and find out that CCP doesn't want you as a customer anymore. You will provide a valuable service to the community, "pour encourager les autres".
Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
786
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:30:00 -
[774] - Quote
Valda Abia wrote:So if an FC gives a bad order over TS which causes someone to lose a ship and that causes them undue emotional distress, is that FC liable to be banned?
I'm asking for a friend.
Nono, that's one of the many unwritten exceptions of the unwritten rule.
Unless it happened in the past, than all's possible.
D.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14710
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:32:00 -
[775] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote:
They already had ALL of his stuff. They literally had nothing left to gain from him IN GAME.
So yeah no, you're the bullshitter.
And you know it.
And CCP agree with me, so as previously advised, suck it up buttercup. I'm in 319- if you want to make something of it.
Can you please answer my question mate ?
No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.
I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2871
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:33:00 -
[776] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:So if you've clearly defined the lines, is it against the rules to ransom for a song, and if a "victim" of the ransom were to feel harassed, would that mean it's over the line? How many songs are "too many"?
If it's so clear, it will be pretty straightforward to answer right? Do you think you're capable of detecting when you're pushing another human being over the line? That depends entirely on the human being in question.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
786
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:33:00 -
[777] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Danalee wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.
We now have a post from a CSM that says as much. NO RULE as of yet. We are also banning people who broke said "rule" before it was written by said CSM. Keep up, please. Ahhh, no. We have a clarification of a long existing rule. Just keeping things in perspective.
So this unwritten rule wasn't clear and needed clarification but is still ok to use to ban people for transgressions before the clarification than?
D.
|
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1458
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:33:00 -
[778] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.
Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1630
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:34:00 -
[779] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I'd like to think that the definition of "harassment" involves at least a little non-consent beyond "he used jedi mind tricks on me." Since E1 has said he's been banned, that apparently isn't so. So it seems whether you harrased someone or not mostly (entirely) depends on how they felt about the experience. I would like the definition of "bad touches'. Can you help?
Sure. Unwanted. Unwelcome. Destructive. The inappropriate touching of others spaceships, wallets, POS modules and anything else they own in game against their wishes. Touching them in their special places until they lose physical cohesion or their wallet magically sends isks to our wallets.
We are super bad at all of those things. But a man's gotta have goals. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14710
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:34:00 -
[780] - Quote
Still, I don't want to be inflexible: the price of futher clarification from me is: all your stuff.
If you don't care enough to give me worthless spacepixels, then why should I?
1 Kings 12:11
|
|
Tyrant Scorn
150
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:34:00 -
[781] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.
I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings.
I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer. Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Salvos Rhoska
854
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:34:00 -
[782] - Quote
Batelle wrote:More like, continue abusing people on TS all you want, just be sure to not brag about it and also DENY EVERYTHING. This case was a bit unusual in that there was never any question of the veracity of the recording.
Good observation. Another fatal flaw in the Bonus Rooms by its wizard designers.
Ironically they actually thought recording would cover their own asses as long as they superficially pokerfaced through the proceedings while laughing off-mic, and that consent to recording (which was implied, not explicitly asked) would somehow magically and automatically mean consent to whatever happens there.
Protip to readers: Recording your own questionable activities, is not a good idea.
Having since read the full disclosure of what all was actually entailed in the Bonus Room itself, I am at a loss to understand or explain how people who apparently where brilliant enough to be able to convince people to transfer all their assets over before they even entered the Bonus Room, could have designed such a goofy and pants-on-head followup to that impressive achievement.
What a waste.
Anyways, returning to topic. If you think you might be banned for it. Don't do it. ------------ |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1744
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:35:00 -
[783] - Quote
Xuixien wrote: If you're playing rugby and someone tackles you and you skin your knee, who should you really be mad at: The person who tackles you or the guy who rubs salt on the wound?
It's a game, you shouldn't get mad at either.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4575
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:36:00 -
[784] - Quote
I never respond to people that start their posts with 'so' and neither should you Malcanis. It's a simple method for weeding out the brainless.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Talon SilverHawk
Ronin Cartel The G0dfathers
657
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:36:00 -
[785] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.
Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly.
Couldn't read any of it after I had wiped my arse with it and flushed it down the pan .... shame : P
Tal
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14721
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:36:00 -
[786] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote: No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.
I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings.
I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer.
You should have asked sooner then. Too bad.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:37:00 -
[787] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Danalee wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's
Yes it was. Bull. ****. And you know it. D. They already had ALL of his stuff. They literally had nothing left to gain from him IN GAME. So yeah no, you're the bullshitter. And you know it. And CCP agree with me, so as previously advised, suck it up buttercup. I'm in 319- if you want to make something of it.
There's nothing to gain from many activities, just as a little trash talk in local has no gain but to wind other people up. And that's usually what the bonus room delivered, someone admitting they felt dumb but accepted it was their fault because of the nature of EVE. Sokhars reaction is the equivalent of that old video of a German kid smashing up his keyboard because he's losing at whatever FPS he's playing. No one can expect that nor be blamed for it when all that's lost is a few pixels and a bit of face. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1461
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:37:00 -
[788] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Still, I don't want to be inflexible: the price of futher clarification from me is: all your stuff.
If you don't care enough to give me worthless spacepixels, then why should I?
Guys, it is obvious that we are taxing Malcanis to his breaking point, and I think we should stop, now. :p That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER CODE.
151
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:37:00 -
[789] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Alyth Nerun wrote:It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game. citation needed. This isn't the bonus room, Sonny. You can't just drop a stat and expect us to believe it. Where is your source? Produce it or go bump a miner.
~500 Unique authors in the thread http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/332182-1
EVE has ~500k Subs when they last published numbers http://www.edge-online.com/news/eve-online-passes-500000-subscribers/
=> math => 0.1%
I ignored the fact that multiple chars in the thread as well as in the total subscription number may be the same person because we can assume that ratio to be the same. |
Tyrant Scorn
150
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:38:00 -
[790] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote: No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.
I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings.
I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer. You should have asked sooner then. Too bad.
Ok, what ever dude... Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
|
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
205
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:38:00 -
[791] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hope this helpsSorry that EVE criminal law isn't any more clear cut that real life. Except in real life, they have laws, you know, rules. They don't just say "don't be mean". Rules which need to be examined in each individual case to see if they apply. We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this. Even in the strictest laws, there are layers of interpretation to be considered and debated... ultimately to be decided upon by a jury or a judge. Writing a thousand variations of a given rule (law) to cover every possible situation is impossible... there would always be loopholes and is an impractical concept to begin with. That's why laws and a system to interpret how applicable they are was developed long ago. I don't have an issue with CCP using their discretion in this, after all it is their game and their rules... and frankly I can even escalate the issue higher if I feel I've been treated unfairly. This is the wisest, and most practical way of addressing the problem as a whole instead of as a single specific incident. Thanks, you saved me the trouble to write the same.
In most cases it's enough to use common sense. It's somewhat like the basic market rule in EvE: "If it's too good to be true, it's probably neither good nor true." Most people easily understand what it means and tread carefully or ask for advice when they are in doubt. And then there are those who don't... more often than not they will lose ISK and assets.
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
788
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:38:00 -
[792] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Danalee wrote:Malcanis wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:The intention of the bonus room isn't reactions like Sokhar's Yes it was. Bull. ****. And you know it. They already had ALL of his stuff. They literally had nothing left to gain from him IN GAME. So yeah no, you're the bullshitter. And you know it.
He had everything and more to gain, they were holding a bonus room. No EULA/TOS/LAWS have been broken and your scapegoat victim went on record saying exactly that. Try again.
Malcanis wrote: And CCP agree with me, so as previously advised, suck it up buttercup. I'm in 319- if you want to make something of it.
You sound mad, are you mad, bro?
D.
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:38:00 -
[793] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Danalee wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.
We now have a post from a CSM that says as much. NO RULE as of yet. We are also banning people who broke said "rule" before it was written by said CSM. Keep up, please. Ahhh, no. We have a clarification of a long existing rule. Just keeping things in perspective. So this unwritten rule wasn't clear and needed clarification but is still ok to use to ban people for transgressions before the clarification than? D.
"Unwritten rule is written".. I see a new meme on the horizon....
Seriously - as was pointed out many times here and in the previous thread, the rules are there and have only been restated. Not rewritten, unwritten, changed, modified, strengthened, weakened or anything else you might like to imagine.
I get it that you're not going to believe this (although I'm mystified as to why) but it is the way it is whether you believe it or not (reality is nice like that when it's not inside your head). W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
535
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:38:00 -
[794] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:When CCP says "COME PLAY EVE! YOU CAN BE THE BADDIE!!!111" and then bans someone for being too much of a baddie... well... I find it somewhat shocking that those who play that role would be told to STFU when they ask for clarification. TIL : Reading the EULA is hard.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1461
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:39:00 -
[795] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.
Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly. Couldn't read any of it after I had wiped my arse with it and flushed it down the pan .... shame : P Tal
Well, then I hope you're not a miner, because James will probably use his red pen on your name, now. I'm so glad I don't have to worry about that. Being a lowsec pirate makes you exempt from a lot. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
509
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:39:00 -
[796] - Quote
Brave Newbies said it best (https://twitter.com/BraveNewbies/status/449660674751217664):
Quote:@BraveNewbies Look's like someone didn't make it though to the end of CCP's Bonus Round. |
Prince Kobol
1577
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:39:00 -
[797] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective? I offer a closing scene from ' A Few Good [Scammers]'... Col. Erotica1: "Son, we live in a [sandbox], and that [sandbox] has to be guarded by men with [guts]. Who's gonna do it? You [Malcanis]? You, Lt. [Ripard]? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for [Sohkar], and you curse the [scammers]. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Sohkar's bonus room], while tragic, probably [entertained many]. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, [entertains many]. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me [in that sandbox], you need me [in that sandbox]. We use words like [awox], [scam], [metagame]. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very [content] that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a [teamspeak client], and [scam someone]. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." Col. Erotica1: "[contemptuously] You f#ckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a [sandbox]. All you did was weaken [the meta game] today, [pansies]. That's all you did. You put people's [sandbox] in danger. Sweet dreams, son." Guardians of the players my arse, CSM should be disbanded immediately. F
There is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech, the entire notion of freedom of speech is nothing but an illusion.
You have what ever freedom your government / rules / law grants you, no more. |
Jai Centarium
Anqara Expeditions
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:39:00 -
[798] - Quote
I really like the concept of this. On its face, it makes sense: Don't be a psychopath.
But there's a huge swath of grey area that begins to creep in. Most in-game operations use out-of-game tools, which this would seem to addressing. Most of us see singing ransoms as harmless, but what if someone has crippling stage fright? What if someone lemmings on an op and is hurt by being called a lemming? Those are far cries from the infamous bonus room, but a strict reading of "the law" would make them illegal.
You can also argue that no one has to accept a singing ransom. No one has to go on a fleet op and end up becoming a lemming. But as far as I know--please correct me if I'm wrong--no one forced the bonus room victims into that room. The moment they asked for a Full API key, I'd have told them to go f*** themselves and left. Greed kept the victim there.
I reiterate my first point: I really like the concept of this. But it seems like CCP is opening Pandora's box. At the first mention of "n00b" over external comms or the posting of a failfit on a forum, you're going to see petitions. "Harassment: Ripard Teg posted my triple-tanked RailRaven as his failfit of the week!"
Why not encourage a stronger community presence? That would certainly help situations like this occur fewer in number and lesser in severity? I'm a certified bitter vet, and maybe it's rose-colored glass, but the transformation of CCP from folks who hung out on IRC and joked with players into masters in an ivory tower who only descend to bestow Dev Blogs and Patches upon us has a strong correlation with the growing toxicity in the community. Build strong relationships, empower community leaders (there are plenty out there) to condemn these actions, and others will follow.
tl;dr: EVERYTHING WAS BETTER IN THE PAST or something. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
48
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:39:00 -
[799] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:H aVo K wrote:When CCP says "COME PLAY EVE! YOU CAN BE THE BADDIE!!!111" and then bans someone for being too much of a baddie... well... I find it somewhat shocking that those who play that role would be told to STFU when they ask for clarification. TIL : Reading the EULA is hard.
My goodness, the willfully ignorant are not treated with kid gloves and the utmost of careful respect. I'm shocked. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1745
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:40:00 -
[800] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Sentamon wrote:So can we get all emotional and act crazy to get people to vacate a station camp? Weren't you quitting if E1 got banned? No courage to stand behind your convictions? Ripard agree with him or not did, Malcanis who stood in front of the galloping horde did...you ....are still here. Let me dig through your posts, I could swear it was you.
No I wasn't quitting. Now if you don't mind, quit harassing for no reason whatsoever, or I'll have to file a complaint.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
|
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
338
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:41:00 -
[801] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:This is obviously a witch hunt for ero's head by the dude that wrote that blog for personal reasons. He stirred up a **** storm that incited a riot not only be alot of the eve community, but other gaming communities as well. Then CCP was pretty much forced into actioning ero's account weather they wanted to or not. This probably got the victims account actioned as well too... Yes, he started a ****storm, but I don't think it's logical to conclude it was for personal reasons. Obviously, there are people who want to believe that -- and for us to believe it, as well -- to discredit criticism of their "content" or emergent gameplay. I think it took a while for anything to get done because the forums are a big place and the blogosphere even bigger. Just because there's a dustup in one area doesn't mean it's universally known about. In the chat with Sohkar last night, it turned out he didn't know much about the thread or even about the CSM. Even if Ripard knew about this a month ago (and I have no idea when he actually found out), do you seriously blame the guy for getting his ducks in a row first before coming out against it in public? This "Oh, it's been going on forever so objecting to it now = personal vendetta" thing doesn't hold water. The Bonus Room activities smell wrong to a number of people. I swear, when I heard those audios, the first thing that came to mind was the squeal like a pig scene in Deliverance. (Yeah, yeah, I know there are no guns or knives or sexual assault in the Bonus Room, but the vibe is similar.)
I don't blame Ripard for waiting. I blame CCP for not acting sooner before a ban was necessary.
Vance Armistice wrote:He sure seems delicate. I guess the CODE is recruiting based on sensitvity. Is this the kinder, gentler CODE?
Maybe it is now minerhugging.com?
Hug a miner today! All hugs must be provided in the form of anti-matter! New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Ahost Gceo
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:42:00 -
[802] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.
Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly.
If the New Order wants to stop botting they should go move their operations out to nullsec. Oh wait, they won't because people in nullsec can actually stop them because there aren't any advantages in the system security mechanics for them to use to maintain dominance! Gee! Imagine that.
How about you use the brain you were born with and read between the lines, or better yet, assess the actual effect of the Minerbumping collective. If there wasn't a mountain of salt and sarcasm upon every wound they inflict then their "noble cause" might actually be friggin' believeable.
I don't discriminate, I hate everyone equally. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
905
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:43:00 -
[803] - Quote
Thank you CSM. I was worried that CCP would kneejerk on this and go too far in their response. Seems just about right though so good job. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
252
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:43:00 -
[804] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:So if you've clearly defined the lines, is it against the rules to ransom for a song, and if a "victim" of the ransom were to feel harassed, would that mean it's over the line? How many songs are "too many"?
If it's so clear, it will be pretty straightforward to answer right? Do you think you're capable of detecting when you're pushing another human being over the line? That depends entirely on the human being in question.
A true sociopath here. This isn't about a victim's REaction. It is about the perpetrator's ACTION. There is a difference, which for inexplicable reasons you seem unable to distinguish. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
791
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:43:00 -
[805] - Quote
Ssieth wrote: "Unwritten rule is written".. I see a new meme on the horizon....
Seriously - as was pointed out many times here and in the previous thread, the rules are there and have only been restated. Not rewritten, unwritten, changed, modified, strengthened, weakened or anything else you might like to imagine.
I get it that you're not going to believe this (although I'm mystified as to why) but it is the way it is whether you believe it or not (reality is nice like that when it's not inside your head).
If it has been pointed out so many times which rule was broken, it shouldn't be all too hard to provide me a link to said rule, shoudln't it?
Otherwise it is you not willing to believe something really stinks here, proof be damned.
D.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5542
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:44:00 -
[806] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Danalee wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.
We now have a post from a CSM that says as much. NO RULE as of yet. We are also banning people who broke said "rule" before it was written by said CSM. Keep up, please. Ahhh, no. We have a clarification of a long existing rule. Just keeping things in perspective. So this unwritten rule wasn't clear and needed clarification but is still ok to use to ban people for transgressions before the clarification than? D. Harassment was always bannable, they have clarified what they consider harassment.
It's a bit closer to the chest that what I would have expected, but I still consider it pretty reasonable.
Nothing has changed, just keep in mind that if you extract so many tears that your mark starts literally freaking out it's time to count your profits and leave it at that.
You still got what you wanted, and your mark gets a chance to calm down and regain his sense of perspective.
The only time this will affect anything is in the most extreme cases... and I'm okay with that. I do hope E1's ban isn't permanent though, everyone deserves a 2nd chance... no matter whether they stepped over the line intentionally or accidentally. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Talon SilverHawk
Ronin Cartel The G0dfathers
657
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:44:00 -
[807] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.
Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly. Couldn't read any of it after I had wiped my arse with it and flushed it down the pan .... shame : P Tal Well, then I hope you're not a miner, because James will probably use his red pen on your name, now. I'm so glad I don't have to worry about that. Being a lowsec pirate makes you exempt from a lot.
I know James and have already had one of my mining ships name feature on his web site in the past, I still have it around somewhere. I'll wave next time I'm out in it : )
Tal |
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER CODE.
151
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:44:00 -
[808] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Alyth Nerun wrote:It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game. Mate, get another cushion for your chair 'cos all I'm hearing is butt hurt. Jump in a ship, get out there and blow stuff up, scam, awox, commit corp theft ..... in time, you'll feel 100% better. You are right. I may even get some miners banned for their rl death threads in the replies to the ganks. I used to not care at all about this and not petition it. I just changed this policy, because new meta. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
541
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:44:00 -
[809] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:when all that's lost is a few pixels and a bit of face. The "it's just pixels" argument is fine to make if talking about your pixels. But if I got mine with GTC, or spending 300 hours mining, they may represent more than just "pixels" to me.
I hate when people pull the "just pixels" crap in Eve, when we know full well people make massive time, energy and money commitments to be here. If you're carefree with your pixels, grand. Don't assume everyone feels as you do.
Btw, give me your pixels, since they are "just a few pixels".
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:45:00 -
[810] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote: Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly.
If the New Order wants to stop botting they should go move their operations out to nullsec. Oh wait, they won't because people in nullsec can actually stop them because there aren't any advantages in the system security mechanics for them to use to maintain dominance! Gee! Imagine that. How about you use the brain you were born with and read between the lines, or better yet, assess the actual effect of the Minerbumping collective. If there wasn't a mountain of salt and sarcasm upon every wound they inflict then their "noble cause" might actually be friggin' believeable.
I think he might have been aiming for irony. At least I hope so, there's so much dumb around currently it's sometimes hard to tell.. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:45:00 -
[811] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.
We now have a post from a CSM that says as much. NO RULE as of yet. We are also banning people who broke said "rule" before it was written by said CSM. Keep up, please. D.
Eve has consequences...don't go into the bonus room if you can't afford to lose...it... |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:46:00 -
[812] - Quote
Alyth Nerun wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Alyth Nerun wrote:It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game. Mate, get another cushion for your chair 'cos all I'm hearing is butt hurt. Jump in a ship, get out there and blow stuff up, scam, awox, commit corp theft ..... in time, you'll feel 100% better. You are right. I may even get some miners banned for their rl death threads in the replies to the ganks. I used to not care at all about this and not petition it. I just changed this policy, because new meta.
Good luck with that and if you manage to grab some death threads let me know - they sound rather fun W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1461
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:47:00 -
[813] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.
Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly. If the New Order wants to stop botting they should go move their operations out to nullsec. Oh wait, they won't because people in nullsec can actually stop them because there aren't any advantages in the system security mechanics for them to use to maintain dominance! Gee! Imagine that. How about you use the brain you were born with and read between the lines, or better yet, assess the actual effect of the Minerbumping collective. If there wasn't a mountain of salt and sarcasm upon every wound they inflict then their "noble cause" might actually be friggin' believeable.
Typical carebear rage-drivel. The VAST MAJORITY of bot-miner fleets are in highsec icebelt systems, because botting and ISBoxing isn't easy to do when there is a real threat of being blown up by massive fleets or NPC's that are actually capable of doing serious damage.
You don't need to worry about individual yield when you have 20 accounts that can strip an icebelt bare, in under 3 minutes. THAT'S why almost all the botters are in highsec, and THAT is why the New Order operates there.
If you think that the New Order isn't big enough to hold their own in Nullspace, then you obviously don't understand how Null actually works. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:48:00 -
[814] - Quote
Alyth Nerun wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Alyth Nerun wrote:It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game. Mate, get another cushion for your chair 'cos all I'm hearing is butt hurt. Jump in a ship, get out there and blow stuff up, scam, awox, commit corp theft ..... in time, you'll feel 100% better. You are right. I may even get some miners banned for their rl death threads in the replies to the ganks. I used to not care at all about this and not petition it. I just changed this policy, because new meta.
There's the spirit!!!!! Strike back! Don't sit idly on the sidelines crying. Get back in the game and BUMP THOSE MINERS!
Tissue? |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
541
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:48:00 -
[815] - Quote
Alyth Nerun wrote:[I used to not care at all about this and not petition it. I just changed this policy, because new meta. So many cares, so many feels, so much emotion. Wow. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
390
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:48:00 -
[816] - Quote
Jai Centarium wrote:I really like the concept of this. On its face, it makes sense: Don't be a psychopath.
But there's a huge swath of grey area that begins to creep in. Most in-game operations use out-of-game tools, which this would seem to addressing. Most of us see singing ransoms as harmless, but what if someone has crippling stage fright? What if someone lemmings on an op and is hurt by being called a lemming? Those are far cries from the infamous bonus room, but a strict reading of "the law" would make them illegal.
You can also argue that no one has to accept a singing ransom. No one has to go on a fleet op and end up becoming a lemming. But as far as I know--please correct me if I'm wrong--no one forced the bonus room victims into that room. The moment they asked for a Full API key, I'd have told them to go f*** themselves and left. Greed kept the victim there.
I reiterate my first point: I really like the concept of this. But it seems like CCP is opening Pandora's box. At the first mention of "n00b" over external comms or the posting of a failfit on a forum, you're going to see petitions. "Harassment: Ripard Teg posted my triple-tanked RailRaven as his failfit of the week!"
Why not encourage a stronger community presence? That would certainly help situations like this occur fewer in number and lesser in severity? I'm a certified bitter vet, and maybe it's rose-colored glass, but the transformation of CCP from folks who hung out on IRC and joked with players into masters in an ivory tower who only descend to bestow Dev Blogs and Patches upon us has a strong correlation with the growing toxicity in the community. Build strong relationships, empower community leaders (there are plenty out there) to condemn these actions, and others will follow.
tl;dr: EVERYTHING WAS BETTER IN THE PAST or something.
Malcanis went to great lengths with CCP to ensure Pandora's Box remains closed (Malcanis O7 for that) and you'll find his answer to the questions you raised just a couple of pages back in this very thread.
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
791
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:49:00 -
[817] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Harassment was always bannable, they have clarified what they consider harassment.
It's a bit closer to the chest that what I would have expected, but I still consider it pretty reasonable.
Nothing has changed, just keep in mind that if you extract so many tears that your mark starts literally freaking out it's time to count your profits and leave it at that.
You still got what you wanted, and your mark gets a chance to calm down and regain his sense of perspective.
The only time this will affect anything is in the most extreme cases... and I'm okay with that. I do hope E1's ban isn't permanent though, everyone deserves a 2nd chance... no matter whether they stepped over the line intentionally or accidentally.
Yes, harassment = BAN THE WITCH. Harassment needs a victim -> No victims in this case. Harassment needs to be reported -> No report made. Harssment in game (which the EULA applies to) needs to be verified in the logs -> logs show nothing.
Nothing changed? Yeah right, except CCP knee-jerking the crap out of this, pressured by a CSM member who took advantage of an unwilling scapegoat.
GF.
D.
|
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:49:00 -
[818] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:when all that's lost is a few pixels and a bit of face. The "it's just pixels" argument is fine to make if talking about your pixels. But if I got mine with GTC, or spending 300 hours mining, they may represent more than just "pixels" to me. I hate when people pull the "just pixels" crap in Eve, when we know full well people make massive time, energy and money commitments to be here. If you're carefree with your pixels, grand. Don't assume everyone feels as you do. Btw, give me your pixels, since they are "just a few pixels".
Well let me clarify. Maybe you have attachment to your pixels for the reasons you have stated, but nonetheless you are playing EVE, you know the nature of the game. You know if you contract everything you own out to someone there's a chance you won't get it back. So when that happens it is indeed unreasonable to fly off the wall like you've caught someone making death threats to your mother, whether the scammer has asked you to sing a song or not. |
Salvos Rhoska
857
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:49:00 -
[819] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I never respond to people that start their posts with 'so' and neither should you Malcanis. It's a simple method for weeding out the brainless. Mr Epeen
This... is excellent advice!
I'm adopting this immediately! ------------ |
Ahost Gceo
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
35
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:49:00 -
[820] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote: Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly.
If the New Order wants to stop botting they should go move their operations out to nullsec. Oh wait, they won't because people in nullsec can actually stop them because there aren't any advantages in the system security mechanics for them to use to maintain dominance! Gee! Imagine that. How about you use the brain you were born with and read between the lines, or better yet, assess the actual effect of the Minerbumping collective. If there wasn't a mountain of salt and sarcasm upon every wound they inflict then their "noble cause" might actually be friggin' believeable. I think he might have been aiming for irony. At least I hope so, there's so much dumb around currently it's sometimes hard to tell..
Well considering the usual Minerbumping defense usually consists of random "Agents" regurgitating their own mantras in a circlejerk manner, I have no choice but to believe I am dealing with idiocy on the level of the Church of Scientology.
I don't discriminate, I hate everyone equally. |
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:49:00 -
[821] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.
Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly. If the New Order wants to stop botting they should go move their operations out to nullsec. Oh wait, they won't because people in nullsec can actually stop them because there aren't any advantages in the system security mechanics for them to use to maintain dominance! Gee! Imagine that. How about you use the brain you were born with and read between the lines, or better yet, assess the actual effect of the Minerbumping collective. If there wasn't a mountain of salt and sarcasm upon every wound they inflict then their "noble cause" might actually be friggin' believeable. Typical carebear rage-drivel. The VAST MAJORITY of bot-miner fleets are in highsec icebelt systems, because botting and ISBoxing isn't easy to do when there is a real threat of being blown up by massive fleets or NPC's that are actually capable of doing serious damage. You don't need to worry about individual yield when you have 20 accounts that can strip an icebelt bare, in under 3 minutes. THAT'S why almost all the botters are in highsec, and THAT is why the New Order operates there. If you think that the New Order isn't big enough to hold their own in Nullspace, then you obviously don't understand how Null actually works.
You don't give yourself enough credit Tso's is a much classier operation than the CODE from what I have seen, why consort with the help? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2873
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:50:00 -
[822] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote:No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.
I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings. I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer. You should have asked sooner then. Too bad. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the CSM. How people that act like this voted against the long held HTFU nature of EVE and in favour of crying players with no self control I have no idea. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
541
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:50:00 -
[823] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:THAT'S why almost all the botters are in highsec, and THAT is why the New Order operates there. Someone has never been to the dronelands. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1952
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:52:00 -
[824] - Quote
Oh my. |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
108
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:53:00 -
[825] - Quote
... *swivels in his chair* ... *sips his coffee* ... *reads your comments* ... *sips his coffee*
...
*smiles*
Well now. It appears those in this game that encourage treating other players with respect, having fun, and staying classy CAN still extract tears simply by espousing those same tenements.
*looks out the window*
My, it is a bright, sunny day today.
*sighs contentedly* thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
45
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:53:00 -
[826] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote:No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.
I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings. I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer. You should have asked sooner then. Too bad. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the CSM. How people that act like this voted against the long held HTFU nature of EVE and in favour of crying players with no self control I have no idea.
I think Malcanis was gently attempting to assist you to live by the HTFU code but your neediness drove him from the thread in frustration.
You were all like "Look Ma! I'm in a thread with a real life CSM guy, let me bug him, be right back" |
Tyrant Scorn
150
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:53:00 -
[827] - Quote
So let me get a stab at this...
Erotica1 and friends scam someone from all of his assets and his isk and made a recording of them trolling him on TeamSpeak while they are doing it. Keep in mind, the victim goes through the process of contracting all of his assets to the scammers and doing this willingly.
After an hour and 45 minutes the victim goes completely berserk and starts threatening the scammers with real life threats, he calls them names and at some point even goes as far as using racist terms such as the N word.
Mind everyone, Erotica1 and his friends stay completely cool and have done nothing out of the ordinary for ingame Eve Online standards. They are not responsible for other peoples stupidity and can not see into the future that their actions will set the victim off like this. But it is in no way their fault. Every man is responsible for what he says regardless. A scamming action is no valid reason for calling people the N word or threatening them in real life. There is no justification for any of what the victim said to them, period.
But now, from what I understand CCP faults Erotica1 and his friends for what they have done...
Is it me or did their morals drop down below zero on this ? I think the fact someone is using such language, in such a hostile way is far more offensive then what Erotica1 did. In fact, CCP nurtures scamming behavior... So who is at fault here and why ???? Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:54:00 -
[828] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:THAT'S why almost all the botters are in highsec, and THAT is why the New Order operates there. Someone has never been to the dronelands.
Or most of renter-space for that matter.
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
368
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:54:00 -
[829] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:So if you've clearly defined the lines, is it against the rules to ransom for a song, and if a "victim" of the ransom were to feel harassed, would that mean it's over the line? How many songs are "too many"?
If it's so clear, it will be pretty straightforward to answer right? Do you think you're capable of detecting when you're pushing another human being over the line?
For some, thats losing your ship at all. Like that faction pimped out missioner. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
541
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:54:00 -
[830] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the CSM. How people that act like this voted against the long held HTFU nature of EVE and in favour of crying players with no self control I have no idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEThUO__Uo They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
|
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
206
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:54:00 -
[831] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Ssieth wrote: "Unwritten rule is written".. I see a new meme on the horizon....
Seriously - as was pointed out many times here and in the previous thread, the rules are there and have only been restated. Not rewritten, unwritten, changed, modified, strengthened, weakened or anything else you might like to imagine.
I get it that you're not going to believe this (although I'm mystified as to why) but it is the way it is whether you believe it or not (reality is nice like that when it's not inside your head).
If it has been pointed out so many times which rule was broken, it shouldn't be all too hard to provide me a link to said rule, shoudln't it? Otherwise it is you not willing to believe something really stinks here, proof be damned. D. There were enough posts about the rules which were broken. I provided such a post myself including explantions. You (and others) just choose to ignore those posts.
Give it up. The case is already closed.
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:55:00 -
[832] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:So let me get a stab at this...
You keep stabbing at it and you keep falling so wide of the mark. I'd stop now before you hurt yourself.
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4569
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:55:00 -
[833] - Quote
Well one thing I can take away from all this: seeing what goes on with that miner bumping crowd answers the question I had the day CCP allowed us to abandon wrecks, also known as "blue-ing wrecks".
That day the feature was added I thought "what are all the ninja looter/wreck/can flipper/baiters going to do now?"
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
114
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:56:00 -
[834] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Added the link.
7o thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER CODE.
151
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:56:00 -
[835] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:I hate when people pull the "just pixels" crap in Eve, when we know full well people make massive time, energy and money commitments to be here. If you're carefree with your pixels, grand. Don't assume everyone feels as you do.
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:So many cares, so many feels, so much emotion. Wow. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:56:00 -
[836] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Danalee wrote:Smip conspiracy theory There were enough posts about the rules which were broken. I provided such a post myself including explantions. You (and others) just choose to ignore those posts. Give it up. The case is already closed.
This. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Ahost Gceo
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:56:00 -
[837] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.
Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly. If the New Order wants to stop botting they should go move their operations out to nullsec. Oh wait, they won't because people in nullsec can actually stop them because there aren't any advantages in the system security mechanics for them to use to maintain dominance! Gee! Imagine that. How about you use the brain you were born with and read between the lines, or better yet, assess the actual effect of the Minerbumping collective. If there wasn't a mountain of salt and sarcasm upon every wound they inflict then their "noble cause" might actually be friggin' believeable. Typical carebear rage-drivel. The VAST MAJORITY of bot-miner fleets are in highsec icebelt systems, because botting and ISBoxing isn't easy to do when there is a real threat of being blown up by massive fleets or NPC's that are actually capable of doing serious damage. You don't need to worry about individual yield when you have 20 accounts that can strip an icebelt bare, in under 3 minutes. THAT'S why almost all the botters are in highsec, and THAT is why the New Order operates there. If you think that the New Order isn't big enough to hold their own in Nullspace, then you obviously don't understand how Null actually works.
Carebear rage...I encourage you to maybe look me up a bit on EVEwho and check my killboards because I roam everywhere, shooting most everything that doesn't destroy me first. And I'll tell you what, on roams out in null I have seen fleets of Mackinaws disappear off d-scan the moment we jump into system because they are bots programmed to POS up the moment a neutral appears in local.
And no, frankly, I still don't think CODE. could hold their own in null.
I don't discriminate, I hate everyone equally. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14734
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:57:00 -
[838] - Quote
Coffee Rocks wrote:... *swivels in his chair* ... *sips his coffee* ... *reads your comments* ... *sips his coffee*
...
*smiles*
Well now. It appears those in this game that encourage treating other players with respect, having fun, and staying classy CAN still extract tears simply by espousing those same tenements.
*looks out the window*
My, it is a bright, sunny day today.
*sighs contentedly*
Before you relax, the word you meant to use is "tenets".
1 Kings 12:11
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:57:00 -
[839] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Alyth Nerun wrote:[I used to not care at all about this and not petition it. I just changed this policy, because new meta. So many cares, so many feels, so much emotion. Wow.
Be careful what you say. Bro. These CODE guys are not to be trifled with. They are actually Agents and they have a website and a code and a spaceship and permits. It's all so impressive.
Apparently, they have a lot of feelings too.
He won't get death threats in the future he will just get links to his tears in his thread. How emasculating...OooooooH Myyyyyyyyy!
|
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
114
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:57:00 -
[840] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the CSM. How people that act like this voted against the long held HTFU nature of EVE and in favour of crying players with no self control I have no idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEThUO__Uo
I was really hoping that was going to be "Wrecking Ball"
thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
372
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:57:00 -
[841] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote:
They already had ALL of his stuff. They literally had nothing left to gain from him IN GAME.
So yeah no, you're the bullshitter.
And you know it.
And CCP agree with me, so as previously advised, suck it up buttercup. I'm in 319- if you want to make something of it.
Can you please answer my question mate ? No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either. I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings.
When can I get you banned for pushing my emotional buttons on the forums? Im having an emotional reaction.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2874
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:58:00 -
[842] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:So if you've clearly defined the lines, is it against the rules to ransom for a song, and if a "victim" of the ransom were to feel harassed, would that mean it's over the line? How many songs are "too many"?
If it's so clear, it will be pretty straightforward to answer right? Do you think you're capable of detecting when you're pushing another human being over the line? That depends entirely on the human being in question. A true sociopath here. This isn't about a victim's REaction. It is about the perpetrator's ACTION. There is a difference, which for inexplicable reasons you seem unable to distinguish. But it's clearly not. It's about "too far", Malcanis is clear in saying that. There are at least 100 definitions of too far across the threads on this subject alone. If a player gets ransomed for a song, is that too far? What about 2 songs? 3? 4? 5? 10? 20? 50? Some players would feel harassed after 1, and would have felt that they were given the option of lose their stuff of sing a song that they don't want to sing, with no good option. Other's would gladly give a song, others would gladly lose their stuff. There no way to decide what is too far across a huge range of differing individuals.
I really don't care if they outlaw it all together, stating that ransoming for songs and TS readings and the like is against the rules, I just think it should be clear so nobody gets banned because they have a stronger will than someone else and saw the line differently. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
495
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:58:00 -
[843] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:when all that's lost is a few pixels and a bit of face. The "it's just pixels" argument is fine to make if talking about your pixels. But if I got mine with GTC, or spending 300 hours mining, they may represent more than just "pixels" to me. I hate when people pull the "just pixels" crap in Eve, when we know full well people make massive time, energy and money commitments to be here. If you're carefree with your pixels, grand. Don't assume everyone feels as you do. Btw, give me your pixels, since they are "just a few pixels". Well let me clarify. Maybe you have attachment to your pixels for the reasons you have stated, but nonetheless you are playing EVE, you know the nature of the game. You know if you contract everything you own out to someone there's a chance you won't get it back. So when that happens it is indeed unreasonable to fly off the wall like you've caught someone making death threats to your mother, whether the scammer has asked you to sing a song or not.
Well, let me clarify. Continuing your TS scam of a player beyond the point where there is anything further to obtain from that player is wrong, is taking the game too far, and can get you in trouble. When your only goal is to get real tears in the chat channel, then you have crossed a line. If that seems unreasonable to you then you're not in this for the game. |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
114
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:58:00 -
[844] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Coffee Rocks wrote:... *swivels in his chair* ... *sips his coffee* ... *reads your comments* ... *sips his coffee*
...
*smiles*
Well now. It appears those in this game that encourage treating other players with respect, having fun, and staying classy CAN still extract tears simply by espousing those same tenements.
*looks out the window*
My, it is a bright, sunny day today.
*sighs contentedly* Before you relax, the word you meant to use is "tenets".
Well, balls.
thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
793
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 21:59:00 -
[845] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Danalee wrote:Ssieth wrote: "Unwritten rule is written".. I see a new meme on the horizon....
Seriously - as was pointed out many times here and in the previous thread, the rules are there and have only been restated. Not rewritten, unwritten, changed, modified, strengthened, weakened or anything else you might like to imagine.
I get it that you're not going to believe this (although I'm mystified as to why) but it is the way it is whether you believe it or not (reality is nice like that when it's not inside your head).
If it has been pointed out so many times which rule was broken, it shouldn't be all too hard to provide me a link to said rule, shoudln't it? Otherwise it is you not willing to believe something really stinks here, proof be damned. There were enough posts about the rules which were broken. I provided such a post myself including explantions. You (and others) just choose to ignore those posts. Give it up. The case is already closed.
No linky than... Thought so, you are like your peers full of it.
D.
|
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1462
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:00:00 -
[846] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.
Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly. If the New Order wants to stop botting they should go move their operations out to nullsec. Oh wait, they won't because people in nullsec can actually stop them because there aren't any advantages in the system security mechanics for them to use to maintain dominance! Gee! Imagine that. How about you use the brain you were born with and read between the lines, or better yet, assess the actual effect of the Minerbumping collective. If there wasn't a mountain of salt and sarcasm upon every wound they inflict then their "noble cause" might actually be friggin' believeable. Typical carebear rage-drivel. The VAST MAJORITY of bot-miner fleets are in highsec icebelt systems, because botting and ISBoxing isn't easy to do when there is a real threat of being blown up by massive fleets or NPC's that are actually capable of doing serious damage. You don't need to worry about individual yield when you have 20 accounts that can strip an icebelt bare, in under 3 minutes. THAT'S why almost all the botters are in highsec, and THAT is why the New Order operates there. If you think that the New Order isn't big enough to hold their own in Nullspace, then you obviously don't understand how Null actually works. You don't give yourself enough credit Tso's is a much classier operation than the CODE from what I have seen, why consort with the help?
I'm not a New Order Agent.... I'm just a regular pirate :p That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:00:00 -
[847] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:
I'm sorry, what planet are you on? There is an entire subculture in this game including the Minerbumping collective and Erotica 1's Bonus Room that solely exists to cause emotional distress in players for their entertainment.
It's funny, to a point. Beyond that it is detrimental, and this is a clear case of what that means.
Actually, The New Order is trying to stop botting and turn miners into productive members of society. Haven't you read the code? It spells it out pretty plainly. If the New Order wants to stop botting they should go move their operations out to nullsec. Oh wait, they won't because people in nullsec can actually stop them because there aren't any advantages in the system security mechanics for them to use to maintain dominance! Gee! Imagine that. How about you use the brain you were born with and read between the lines, or better yet, assess the actual effect of the Minerbumping collective. If there wasn't a mountain of salt and sarcasm upon every wound they inflict then their "noble cause" might actually be friggin' believeable. Typical carebear rage-drivel. The VAST MAJORITY of bot-miner fleets are in highsec icebelt systems, because botting and ISBoxing isn't easy to do when there is a real threat of being blown up by massive fleets or NPC's that are actually capable of doing serious damage. You don't need to worry about individual yield when you have 20 accounts that can strip an icebelt bare, in under 3 minutes. THAT'S why almost all the botters are in highsec, and THAT is why the New Order operates there. If you think that the New Order isn't big enough to hold their own in Nullspace, then you obviously don't understand how Null actually works. Carebear rage...I encourage you to maybe look me up a bit on EVEwho and check my killboards because I roam everywhere, shooting most everything that doesn't destroy me first. And I'll tell you what, on roams out in null I have seen fleets of Mackinaws disappear off d-scan the moment we jump into system because they are bots programmed to POS up the moment a neutral appears in local. And no, frankly, I still don't think CODE. could hold their own in null.
Care Bear?!? Do you have any idea who you are messing with? This is the King of J-Space, you should be happy he even let you comment in his thread. |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2870
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:00:00 -
[848] - Quote
If you're not sure if you are going too far, you probably already did. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
372
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:00:00 -
[849] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Coffee Rocks wrote:... *swivels in his chair* ... *sips his coffee* ... *reads your comments* ... *sips his coffee*
...
*smiles*
Well now. It appears those in this game that encourage treating other players with respect, having fun, and staying classy CAN still extract tears simply by espousing those same tenements.
*looks out the window*
My, it is a bright, sunny day today.
*sighs contentedly* Before you relax, the word you meant to use is "tenets".
Didnt you leave the thread like twice already? Also; DOES this new form of PVP extend to the forums?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1631
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:01:00 -
[850] - Quote
Alyth Nerun wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Alyth Nerun wrote:It looks to me like manipulating CCP into banning another player via external blog and a mad mob on the forums consisting of <0.1% of the player base is now officially part of EVE's meta game. Mate, get another cushion for your chair 'cos all I'm hearing is butt hurt. Jump in a ship, get out there and blow stuff up, scam, awox, commit corp theft ..... in time, you'll feel 100% better. You are right. I may even get some miners banned for their rl death threads in the replies to the ganks. I used to not care at all about this and not petition it. I just changed this policy, because new meta.
Let them be judged by the same standard they would judge you my friend. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:01:00 -
[851] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:This is obviously a witch hunt for ero's head by the dude that wrote that blog for personal reasons. He stirred up a **** storm that incited a riot not only be alot of the eve community, but other gaming communities as well. Then CCP was pretty much forced into actioning ero's account weather they wanted to or not. This probably got the victims account actioned as well too... Yes, he started a ****storm, but I don't think it's logical to conclude it was for personal reasons. Obviously, there are people who want to believe that -- and for us to believe it, as well -- to discredit criticism of their "content" or emergent gameplay. I think it took a while for anything to get done because the forums are a big place and the blogosphere even bigger. Just because there's a dustup in one area doesn't mean it's universally known about. In the chat with Sohkar last night, it turned out he didn't know much about the thread or even about the CSM. Even if Ripard knew about this a month ago (and I have no idea when he actually found out), do you seriously blame the guy for getting his ducks in a row first before coming out against it in public? This "Oh, it's been going on forever so objecting to it now = personal vendetta" thing doesn't hold water. The Bonus Room activities smell wrong to a number of people. I swear, when I heard those audios, the first thing that came to mind was the squeal like a pig scene in Deliverance. (Yeah, yeah, I know there are no guns or knives or sexual assault in the Bonus Room, but the vibe is similar.)
Okay lets buy your argument for just a second here...
Its really irrelevant as to when Ripard found out, its to when CCP found out. And it should have been found out when threads started getting locked in C&P. If they didnt know then, then someone needs to get in ISD's ass for dropping the ball. Because isn't it their job to moderate the forums and when something grossly breaks the rules to forward it to a game master for investigation? If CCP didn't know 8 months ago then take a wild guess at who wasn't doing their job....
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:01:00 -
[852] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
I'm not a New Order Agent.... I'm just a regular pirate :p
I just said that...
|
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:01:00 -
[853] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:So let me get a stab at this...
Erotica1 and friends scam someone from all of his assets and his isk and made a recording of them trolling him on TeamSpeak while they are doing it. Keep in mind, the victim goes through the process of contracting all of his assets to the scammers and doing this willingly.
After an hour and 45 minutes the victim goes completely berserk and starts threatening the scammers with real life threats, he calls them names and at some point even goes as far as using racist terms such as the N word.
Mind everyone, Erotica1 and his friends stay completely cool and have done nothing out of the ordinary for ingame Eve Online standards. They are not responsible for other peoples stupidity and can not see into the future that their actions will set the victim off like this. But it is in no way their fault. Every man is responsible for what he says regardless. A scamming action is no valid reason for calling people the N word or threatening them in real life. There is no justification for any of what the victim said to them, period.
But now, from what I understand CCP faults Erotica1 and his friends for what they have done...
Is it me or did their morals drop down below zero on this ? I think the fact someone is using such language, in such a hostile way is far more offensive then what Erotica1 did. In fact, CCP nurtures scamming behavior... So who is at fault here and why ????
You've got it absolutely right. Lets look at what actually happened, Erotica scammed someone, that's acceptable in eve. For a little fun he plays a little wind up game, having the victim sing, arguably no worse than trash talking in local. Then Sokhar starts swearing, being racist and acting like a madman at Erotica simply for doing things that are perfectly allowed in the game. At no point does Erotica descend to Sokhar's level, remaining the professional scammer he was. Surely it is Sokhar who is the bad guy in this story, getting angry at Erotica for doing what people in eve do. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:01:00 -
[854] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Alyth Nerun wrote:[I used to not care at all about this and not petition it. I just changed this policy, because new meta. So many cares, so many feels, so much emotion. Wow. Be careful what you say. Bro. These CODE guys are not to be trifled with. They are actually Agents and they have a website and a code and a spaceship and permits. It's all so impressive. Apparently, they have a lot of feelings too. He won't get death threats in the future he will just get links to his tears in his thread. How emasculating...OooooooH Myyyyyyyyy!
You, sir, owe me a new keyboard. You just made me snort coffee onto mine Not that I've not had a few giggles just at the thought of CODE trying to go nullsec.
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:02:00 -
[855] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote:No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.
I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings. I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer. You should have asked sooner then. Too bad. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the CSM. How people that act like this voted against the long held HTFU nature of EVE and in favour of crying players with no self control I have no idea.
It is hilarious how butt hurt you are. I mean REALLY hilarious. He was elected CSM because he is a man of morality. He is mature enough to decide what is right and what is wrong, this has showed in his responses. The majority of the player base were able to see this and in turn voted for him. I wouldn't expect a fellow sociopath of Erotica 1 to understand this, it is clear in your posts you are just that. Nothing in the game has changed, only the same rules that have been here forever have been reinforced. So why are you so mad, really? Is it because you realize you are on the wrong side of this and are hopeless flailing around grasping at anything that may help prove your sadistic points? I think so.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
372
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:02:00 -
[856] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:when all that's lost is a few pixels and a bit of face. The "it's just pixels" argument is fine to make if talking about your pixels. But if I got mine with GTC, or spending 300 hours mining, they may represent more than just "pixels" to me. I hate when people pull the "just pixels" crap in Eve, when we know full well people make massive time, energy and money commitments to be here. If you're carefree with your pixels, grand. Don't assume everyone feels as you do. Btw, give me your pixels, since they are "just a few pixels". Well let me clarify. Maybe you have attachment to your pixels for the reasons you have stated, but nonetheless you are playing EVE, you know the nature of the game. You know if you contract everything you own out to someone there's a chance you won't get it back. So when that happens it is indeed unreasonable to fly off the wall like you've caught someone making death threats to your mother, whether the scammer has asked you to sing a song or not. Well, let me clarify. Continuing your TS scam of a player beyond the point where there is anything further to obtain from that player is wrong, is taking the game too far, and can get you in trouble. When your only goal is to get real tears in the chat channel, then you have crossed a line. If that seems unreasonable to you then you're not in this for the game.
Yeah, dont use TS when doing it and youre completely fine. No out of game problems http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1462
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:02:00 -
[857] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:THAT'S why almost all the botters are in highsec, and THAT is why the New Order operates there. Someone has never been to the dronelands.
Correct. I hate nullsec. Politics and intel pipelines and nullbears. Locals dock up when a red enters system, and nobody assembles to fight a hostile small gang.
It's infuriating. Give me lowsec piracy and small gang PvP, any day, over that noise. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
372
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:03:00 -
[858] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:So let me get a stab at this...
Erotica1 and friends scam someone from all of his assets and his isk and made a recording of them trolling him on TeamSpeak while they are doing it. Keep in mind, the victim goes through the process of contracting all of his assets to the scammers and doing this willingly.
After an hour and 45 minutes the victim goes completely berserk and starts threatening the scammers with real life threats, he calls them names and at some point even goes as far as using racist terms such as the N word.
Mind everyone, Erotica1 and his friends stay completely cool and have done nothing out of the ordinary for ingame Eve Online standards. They are not responsible for other peoples stupidity and can not see into the future that their actions will set the victim off like this. But it is in no way their fault. Every man is responsible for what he says regardless. A scamming action is no valid reason for calling people the N word or threatening them in real life. There is no justification for any of what the victim said to them, period.
But now, from what I understand CCP faults Erotica1 and his friends for what they have done...
Is it me or did their morals drop down below zero on this ? I think the fact someone is using such language, in such a hostile way is far more offensive then what Erotica1 did. In fact, CCP nurtures scamming behavior... So who is at fault here and why ???? You've got it absolutely right. Lets look at what actually happened, Erotica scammed someone, that's acceptable in eve. For a little fun he plays a little wind up game, having the victim sing, arguably no worse than trash talking in local. Then Sokhar starts swearing, being racist and acting like a madman at Erotica simply for doing things that are perfectly allowed in the game. At no point does Erotica descend to Sokhar's level, remaining the professional scammer he was. Surely it is Sokhar who is the bad guy in this story, getting angry at Erotica for doing what people in eve do.
Agreed. Sokhar is a racist!
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
114
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:04:00 -
[859] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Didnt you leave the thread like twice already? Also; DOES this new form of PVP extend to the forums?
Unlike some folks, I do leave. Then come back. That's called "breaks" (or, you know: work, school, RL in general).
Take one. thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Louis Robichaud
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
204
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:04:00 -
[860] - Quote
Doireen Kaundur wrote:Final score: CCP: 1 Internet psychos: 0 It is a good day in New Eden.
It's starting to sound like it doesn't it? And who would have known that griefer tears would be such a delicate nectar? |
|
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1462
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:05:00 -
[861] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:
I'm not a New Order Agent.... I'm just a regular pirate :p
I just said that...
I see that my trollpost skills have not evaded your notice :p That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2875
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:06:00 -
[862] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote:No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.
I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings. I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer. You should have asked sooner then. Too bad. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the CSM. How people that act like this voted against the long held HTFU nature of EVE and in favour of crying players with no self control I have no idea. I think Malcanis was gently attempting to assist you to live by the HTFU code but your neediness drove him from the thread in frustration. You were all like "Look Ma! I'm in a thread with a real life CSM guy, let me bug him, be right back" Yes, because asking a representative of the people for clarification on an arbitrary ruling is just too much. And him trolling people is clearly what he was appointed to do right?
Without knowing where the lines are being drawn, CCP are leaving it open so they can selectively decide to ban people who have no possible way of knowing where they stand. It would be better to just ban it entirely and explicitly, since people would then know where they stand. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
68
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:07:00 -
[863] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Danalee wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: We now have a rule, don't push a 'victim" to the point of emotional distress... and that rule will be examined to see if it is applicable in each ticket they receive about an incident like this.
We now have a post from a CSM that says as much. NO RULE as of yet. We are also banning people who broke said "rule" before it was written by said CSM. Keep up, please. D. Eve has consequences...don't go into the bonus room if you can't afford to lose...it...
but the bonus room wasn't part of EVE was it. The EVE part was already dealt with when the ISK was scammed using legal game tactics. The bonus room was about inflicting humiliation to publish publicly. If these sessions were never recorded and never published then we wouldn't be here having this threadnaught part 2.
If it was about EVE and in game gain why is there a need to publish recordings of taking someone to the edge and over unless it is for perverse *****'n'giggles or possible other darker motivations.
Thats why saying its all about EVE having consequences is a **** poor excuse to try and justify unacceptable behaviour. What happens in EVE stays in EVE and everyone is a happy camper. Start shitposting about how you got someone to go ballistic to the point where their wife is on comms trying to calm them down and then releasing it for your own mental masturbatory reasons stops being part of EVE and the game. If people can't see the difference here then they really are deranged. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:07:00 -
[864] - Quote
Louis Robichaud wrote: It's starting to sound like it doesn't it? And who would have known that griefer tears would be such a delicate nectar?
So you don't feel the dev post provides very little guidance, and does not address the issue at hand. You changed your mind and thought now to be as good a time as any to join the army of pitchfork wielding trolls.
Gotcha Louis. And here I was thinking you had a mind of your own
D.
|
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
513
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:07:00 -
[865] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Agreed. Sokhar is a racist!
That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the same protection as everybody else, usually laws and policies apply to everyone. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
544
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:07:00 -
[866] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:THAT'S why almost all the botters are in highsec, and THAT is why the New Order operates there. Someone has never been to the dronelands. Correct. I hate nullsec. Politics and intel pipelines and nullbears. Locals dock up when a red enters system, and nobody assembles to fight a hostile small gang. It's infuriating. Give me lowsec piracy and small gang PvP, any day, over that noise. I can agree with that. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Ahost Gceo
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:08:00 -
[867] - Quote
Quote: I tried snipping. I failed, I am sorry.
Quote:Care Bear?!? Do you have any idea who you are messing with? This is the King of J-Space, you should be happy he even let you comment in his thread.
I generally don't like pulling the "this is who I am" epeen card but it would behoove someone in an argument to either learn something about his opponent so he can make accurate remarks or just skip the ad hominem insinuations altogether.
That being said, you should see Proc Diadochu whip it on C4 nerds in their threads. He is the king of J-Space shitposting. B) I don't discriminate, I hate everyone equally. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1748
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:08:00 -
[868] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Agreed. Sokhar is a racist! That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the same protection as everybody else, usually laws and policies apply to everyone.
On what planet?
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:10:00 -
[869] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:So let me get a stab at this...
Erotica1 and friends scam someone from all of his assets and his isk and made a recording of them trolling him on TeamSpeak while they are doing it. Keep in mind, the victim goes through the process of contracting all of his assets to the scammers and doing this willingly.
After an hour and 45 minutes the victim goes completely berserk and starts threatening the scammers with real life threats, he calls them names and at some point even goes as far as using racist terms such as the N word.
Mind everyone, Erotica1 and his friends stay completely cool and have done nothing out of the ordinary for ingame Eve Online standards. They are not responsible for other peoples stupidity and can not see into the future that their actions will set the victim off like this. But it is in no way their fault. Every man is responsible for what he says regardless. A scamming action is no valid reason for calling people the N word or threatening them in real life. There is no justification for any of what the victim said to them, period.
But now, from what I understand CCP faults Erotica1 and his friends for what they have done...
Is it me or did their morals drop down below zero on this ? I think the fact someone is using such language, in such a hostile way is far more offensive then what Erotica1 did. In fact, CCP nurtures scamming behavior... So who is at fault here and why ???? You've got it absolutely right. Lets look at what actually happened, Erotica scammed someone, that's acceptable in eve. For a little fun he plays a little wind up game, having the victim sing, arguably no worse than trash talking in local. Then Sokhar starts swearing, being racist and acting like a madman at Erotica simply for doing things that are perfectly allowed in the game. At no point does Erotica descend to Sokhar's level, remaining the professional scammer he was. Surely it is Sokhar who is the bad guy in this story, getting angry at Erotica for doing what people in eve do.
Please explain in detail the thought process behind asking another player to dribble mayo on their mouth and take a picture. Then explain why E1 got so upset when people found personal details about his purchasing habits from info he left in public. Then tell us about his peanutbutter fetish. Explain why he was too extreme to remain in GS and was kicked. Why does he get his kicks from humiliating others. Then tell us all why we should give a rat's ass about another random weirdo that got caught out there fapping to other's misery. Do all of this on minerhugging.com because no one here gives a ****. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2875
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:10:00 -
[870] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the CSM. How people that act like this voted against the long held HTFU nature of EVE and in favour of crying players with no self control I have no idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTEThUO__Uo I think you really need to look at the definition there son. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2502
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:11:00 -
[871] - Quote
I'm glad a decision has been made.
I know some of the more "hardocre" players are having to suck a bitter pill right now, but generally speaking this decision won't affect them in the slightest.
Despite their reaction, most of them won't ever have taken something as far as Erotica1 did.
I wasn't particularly in favour of a ban, as stated in the threadnought. I can however respect the fact that CCP decided that they weren't comfortable with something.
I for one applaud them for making a decision and standing by it.
Case by case is all you need to know. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
19
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:11:00 -
[872] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Agreed. Sokhar is a racist! That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the same protection as everybody else, usually laws and policies apply to everyone.
Pretty sure using racist language is against the rules. Erotica 1 broke no rules when he scammed. He broke no rules when he asked Sokhar to sing. Sokhar broke the rules first when he said racist things, when he threatened Erotica's mother. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4002
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:12:00 -
[873] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Fair enough. Well spoken.
I"m absolutely sure some knuckleheads will try to cite this case after "losing emotional control" to get compensation for a gank or war dec (which will be unsuccessful of course).
I'm a bit concerned about people throwing a fit just to force a person to back away from a scam or prank... but hopefully that flexibility built into CCP's official stance will keep people from abusing it as a "you can't touch me" card.
Unsurprisingly, we also raised this issue. Let's just say that anyone attempting to use this ruling for metagaming is going to be very unsatisfied with the results. They'll probably complain about it for months in the forums of whatever MMO they go on to play next.
I certainly hope it was raised and discussed. That was one of my primary objections to this entire premise of subjectively drawing the line at "when they get upset, you have to lay off", because it encourages people to draw the line at "upset" to be shorter and shorter.
It incentivizes losing your mind about in game losses to inflict meta punishment on someone else. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Salvos Rhoska
857
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:12:00 -
[874] - Quote
ITT: A few people who seem to completely lack the faculty of comprehending what might entail "clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world." ------------ |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
117
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:12:00 -
[875] - Quote
If I haven't made it clear enough...
... I'm enjoying this threadnaught much, much more than the last one.
Please, continue debating CCP and the CSM on what they've made perfectly clear. If you are still fuzzy and can't understand it by now, chances are you might be next.
If so, please donate your stuff to the Brave Dojo. Those newbies could use it. thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:13:00 -
[876] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:Quote: I tried snipping. I failed, I am sorry.
Quote:Care Bear?!? Do you have any idea who you are messing with? This is the King of J-Space, you should be happy he even let you comment in his thread. I generally don't like pulling the "this is who I am" epeen card but it would behoove someone in an argument to either learn something about his opponent so he can make accurate remarks or just skip the ad hominem insinuations altogether. That being said, you should see Proc Diadochu whip it on C4 nerds in their threads. He is the king of J-Space shitposting. B)
I was being sincere. J-space is end game and your corp has a lot of history. props |
Wesley Otsdarva
Asuratech Industrial Corp AAA Citizens
30
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:13:00 -
[877] - Quote
Thank you CCP. The threadnaught is dead (I wish i could of liked your lock post falcon) And We now know without a doubt where CCP stands.
Thank you, thank you thank you. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:13:00 -
[878] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Yes, because asking a representative of the people for clarification on an arbitrary ruling is just too much. And him trolling people is clearly what he was appointed to do right?
Without knowing where the lines are being drawn, CCP are leaving it open so they can selectively decide to ban people who have no possible way of knowing where they stand. It would be better to just ban it entirely and explicitly, since people would then know where they stand.
Repeatedly asking for clarification you've been told that someone cannot and will not provide, however, is pretty dumb and that kind of dumb wares anyone down eventually.
Yes, the line is a broad grey one rather than a nice neat one dividing black and white. As a result you'll need to exercise judgement and accept the consequences if you want to dance too close to the border of what is and isn't allowed. If you aren't prepared to accept those consequences then simply stay well clear of that line. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
206
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:14:00 -
[879] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:Danalee wrote:Ssieth wrote: "Unwritten rule is written".. I see a new meme on the horizon....
Seriously - as was pointed out many times here and in the previous thread, the rules are there and have only been restated. Not rewritten, unwritten, changed, modified, strengthened, weakened or anything else you might like to imagine.
I get it that you're not going to believe this (although I'm mystified as to why) but it is the way it is whether you believe it or not (reality is nice like that when it's not inside your head).
If it has been pointed out so many times which rule was broken, it shouldn't be all too hard to provide me a link to said rule, shoudln't it? Otherwise it is you not willing to believe something really stinks here, proof be damned. There were enough posts about the rules which were broken. I provided such a post myself including explantions. You (and others) just choose to ignore those posts. Give it up. The case is already closed. No linky than... Thought so, you are like your peers full of it. D. Considering that I said that I wrote such a post myself you could - for example - left click on my name under my avatar picture to the left of my post, select "View posts" in the pop-up window and go look for the link yourself. And if you continue looking through my posts you'll even find a post from November last year which was about another case that happended in the bonus room and had me saying that "I wouldn't draw that much attention to myself, if I were involved with the bonus room".
But it's easier to act silly, isn't it?
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:14:00 -
[880] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Agreed. Sokhar is a racist! That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the same protection as everybody else, usually laws and policies apply to everyone. Pretty sure using racist language is against the rules. Erotica 1 broke no rules when he scammed. He broke no rules when he asked Sokhar to sing. Sokhar broke the rules first when he said racist things, when he threatened Erotica's mother.
Please explain in detail the thought process behind asking another player to dribble mayo on their mouth and take a picture. Then explain why E1 got so upset when people found personal details about his purchasing habits from info he left in public. Then tell us about his peanutbutter fetish. Explain why he was too extreme to remain in GS and was kicked. Why does he get his kicks from humiliating others. Then tell us all why we should give a rat's ass about another random weirdo that got caught out there fapping to other's misery. Do all of this on minerhugging.com because no one here gives a ****. |
|
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
19
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:14:00 -
[881] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: A few people who seem to completely lack the faculty of comprehending what might entail "clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world."
To me that's finding out someones personal information or bombarding someone with abusive posts. It isn't asking someone to sing after they've been scammed in a game famous for its scamming. |
Warmonger Murderalt
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:14:00 -
[882] - Quote
I don't know why they bothered closing the old thread only to make an official announcement that essentially says nothing definitive and overtly changes nothing. Now everything that has already been said is going to be repeated all over again in this thread, the only difference being instead of having the joy of seeing the previous threadnaught break 400 pages and keep going to who knows how far, we get this thing which will probably lose gas at..... hmm... any bets as to how many pages? 200, maybe 300 pages? |
Prince Kobol
1577
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:15:00 -
[883] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Agreed. Sokhar is a racist! That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the same protection as everybody else, usually laws and policies apply to everyone. On what planet?
Quite a lot of it actually.
You walk down any street in a lot of countries and just punch somebody in the face and give the excuse he is a racist, you will still be charged with crime. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
390
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:15:00 -
[884] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Yes, because asking a representative of the people for clarification on an arbitrary ruling is just too much. And him trolling people is clearly what he was appointed to do right?
Do you really think any of the CSM reps were involved in the investigation and privy to CCP's GMs processes or rulings? I certainly don't think so and so none of the CSM reps will be able to provide that clarification on a case specific ruling that you are seeking.
Quote:Without knowing where the lines are being drawn, CCP are leaving it open so they can selectively decide to ban people who have no possible way of knowing where they stand.
As it should be otherwise players would be constantly rule lawyering. Exercise some common sense and you'll be peachy.
|
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1464
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:15:00 -
[885] - Quote
Ahost Gceo wrote:Quote: I tried snipping. I failed, I am sorry.
Quote:Care Bear?!? Do you have any idea who you are messing with? This is the King of J-Space, you should be happy he even let you comment in his thread. I generally don't like pulling the "this is who I am" epeen card but it would behoove someone in an argument to either learn something about his opponent so he can make accurate remarks or just skip the ad hominem insinuations altogether. That being said, you should see Proc Diadochu whip it on C4 nerds in their threads. He is the king of J-Space shitposting. B)
If you can't see where I was playful trolling, then I feel bad for you, mate. I don't care about epeen cards or who is who, or anything. I've been playing EVE for a long time, and I'm in it for the explosions.
My presence in this thread was to reassure myself that my pirate-y ways are not in jeopardy. When that was clarified, I appealed to Malcanis to do his best to keep it that way (I did vote for him, afterall). When that agenda was finished, I saw fit to have a little bit of fun before donning my eyepatch and hook hand, and running the jolly roger up the mast of my Ferox to go look for targets.
I'm sorry about your delicate feels. I will stop harassing you now, before you have a meltdown. Wouldn't want to get bannenated. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
158
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:15:00 -
[886] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Danalee wrote:So no ganking without explaining to your target why and how to prevent it. Did I say that? I rather think not. See my comment in the same reply about semantic quibblers.
Sorry Trebor but I think you're using a convenient excuse to side step questions. I don't see anyone arguing semantics, I see them looking for clear guidance and getting fed bullshit. Eve is a brutally harsh game and we are all here because we like to bite the pillow. The real question is how far are we willing to let things ago -how much is too much? I don't agree with the way that a lot of people play Eve, but Eve is a sandbox so I have to be willing to at least put up with all forms of game play. But if limits are going to be set then let's define them so there is no ambiguity. Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
208
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:16:00 -
[887] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:You must think I'm an idiot don't you.
No comment needed. "If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2502
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:17:00 -
[888] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Sentamon wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Agreed. Sokhar is a racist! That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the same protection as everybody else, usually laws and policies apply to everyone. On what planet? Quite a lot of it actually. You walk down any street in a lot of countries and just punch somebody in the face and give the excuse he is a racist, you will still be charged with a crime.
Congratulations on starting the original thread Kobol - not many people can say they kicked off that kind of shitfest! Aaaaaaand relax. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:17:00 -
[889] - Quote
stay well clear of that line by not ransomming, scamming, awoxing, ganking or otherwise doing anything EVE is about?
I'm sure you'll say nono, that's all nicely withing the invisible lines drawn.
All good.
I give up on all you sheeple.
D.
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
545
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:17:00 -
[890] - Quote
If you want guidance, stop asking the CSM, and ask CCP directly. The CSM isn't in charge of rules enforcement or deliberation. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
|
Doireen Kaundur
446
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:18:00 -
[891] - Quote
I have tiny nipples. Minimizing the cost of replacing implants.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4003
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:18:00 -
[892] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: A few people who seem to completely lack the faculty of comprehending what might entail "clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world."
Bullshit.
I once had someone completely flip his lid at me in local, after I bumped him once.
Do I need to be banned for that? He got equally upset as the example given here. Far more, in fact, he was using capslock and everything.
And that's the problem with subjectivity. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2502
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:18:00 -
[893] - Quote
Danalee wrote:stay well clear of that line by not ransomming, scamming, awoxing, ganking or otherwise doing anything EVE is about? I'm sure you'll say nono, that's all nicely withing the invisible lines drawn. All good. I give up on all you sheeple. D.
Lol - you know what to do then.... Aaaaaaand relax. |
Tyrant Scorn
160
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:19:00 -
[894] - Quote
So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ? Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14749
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:19:00 -
[895] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: A few people who seem to completely lack the faculty of comprehending what might entail "clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world." Bullshit. I once had someone completely flip his lid at me in local, after I bumped him once. Do I need to be banned for that? He got equally upset as the example given here. Far more, in fact, he was using capslock and everything. And that's the problem with subjectivity.
tl;dr: no you don't.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Salvos Rhoska
859
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:19:00 -
[896] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:To me that's finding out someones personal information or bombarding someone with abusive posts. It isn't asking someone to sing after they've been scammed in a game famous for its scamming.
I would agree. And that has not changed :) ------------ |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:19:00 -
[897] - Quote
Danalee wrote:stay well clear of that line by not ransomming, scamming, awoxing, ganking or otherwise doing anything EVE is about? I'm sure you'll say nono, that's all nicely withing the invisible lines drawn. All good. I give up on all you sheeple. D.
That's life
And as funny as it may seem Some people get their kicks stomping on a dream But I don't let it, let it get me down 'Cause this fine old world, it keeps spinnin' around
|
Kaylin Drake
Profound Destiny
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:20:00 -
[898] - Quote
Much respect to CCP and the CSM on this. o7 |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4003
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:20:00 -
[899] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ?
Malcanis put it on about 15 pages in.
Apparently there are going to be some more unwritten and unsubstantiated rules to prevent people from using this to meta people into getting banned.
This despite their firm affirmation to subjectivity in "the line" being crossed when someone gets upset. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
20
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:20:00 -
[900] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:To me that's finding out someones personal information or bombarding someone with abusive posts. It isn't asking someone to sing after they've been scammed in a game famous for its scamming. I would agree. And that has not changed :)
Except it has since that's exactly what Erotica 1 has been banned for. |
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:21:00 -
[901] - Quote
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:Thank you CCP. The threadnaught is dead (I wish i could of liked your lock post falcon) And We now know without a doubt where CCP stands.
Thank you, thank you thank you.
Who said the threadnaught is dead? Its just been moved here and we are already up to page 40 something, When I goto bed and wake up later I won't be shocked to see this one well over 100 pages also.
Where does CCP stand? The OP just sounds like a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo that says nothing.
us: Is the bonus round allowed?
normal answer: yes/no
Their answer: irrelevant stuff not answering the question |
Kaius Fero
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:21:00 -
[902] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:So if you've clearly defined the lines, is it against the rules to ransom for a song, and if a "victim" of the ransom were to feel harassed, would that mean it's over the line? How many songs are "too many"?
If it's so clear, it will be pretty straightforward to answer right? Do you think you're capable of detecting when you're pushing another human being over the line? You re not human, you are a politician. You should be .... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2877
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:21:00 -
[903] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote:No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.
I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings. I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer. You should have asked sooner then. Too bad. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the CSM. How people that act like this voted against the long held HTFU nature of EVE and in favour of crying players with no self control I have no idea. It is hilarious how butt hurt you are. I mean REALLY hilarious. He was elected CSM because he is a man of morality. He is mature enough to decide what is right and what is wrong, this has showed in his responses. The majority of the player base were able to see this and in turn voted for him. I wouldn't expect a fellow sociopath of Erotica 1 to understand this, it is clear in your posts you are just that. Nothing in the game has changed, only the same rules that have been here forever have been reinforced. So why are you so mad, really? Is it because you realize you are on the wrong side of this and are hopeless flailing around grasping at anything that may help prove your sadistic points? I think so. How exactly am I butthurt? Just because I wan't clarification on the rules? I couldn't care less if they rule that we must spread love and peace throughout the game and drew pictures of rainbows, conversely I couldn't care less if they opted for complete anarchy, but people should be given a chance to make decisions based on rules, not just take chances at being banned any time people have a rageout.
And of course the rules have changed, Erotica 1 has been doing this for a long time, as have other scammers. To suggest nothing has changes is ludicrous. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Prince Kobol
1580
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:22:00 -
[904] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Sentamon wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Agreed. Sokhar is a racist! That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the same protection as everybody else, usually laws and policies apply to everyone. On what planet? Quite a lot of it actually. You walk down any street in a lot of countries and just punch somebody in the face and give the excuse he is a racist, you will still be charged with a crime. Congratulations on starting the original thread Kobol - not many people can say they kicked off that kind of shitfest!
Lol tell me about it. Never thought in a millions this would happen.
Truth is if didn't pretty damn sure somebody else would of done, I just got there first |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4003
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:22:00 -
[905] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: A few people who seem to completely lack the faculty of comprehending what might entail "clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world." Bullshit. I once had someone completely flip his lid at me in local, after I bumped him once. Do I need to be banned for that? He got equally upset as the example given here. Far more, in fact, he was using capslock and everything. And that's the problem with subjectivity. tl;dr: no you don't.
I am aware of that.
The guy I bumped isn't. It only takes one randomly slung petition to stick. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
373
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:22:00 -
[906] - Quote
Coffee Rocks wrote:Malcanis wrote:Coffee Rocks wrote:... *swivels in his chair* ... *sips his coffee* ... *reads your comments* ... *sips his coffee*
...
*smiles*
Well now. It appears those in this game that encourage treating other players with respect, having fun, and staying classy CAN still extract tears simply by espousing those same tenements.
*looks out the window*
My, it is a bright, sunny day today.
*sighs contentedly* Before you relax, the word you meant to use is "tenets". Well, balls.
http://youtu.be/ir_9CX2B228
First person I thought of http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
390
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:23:00 -
[907] - Quote
Danalee wrote:stay well clear of that line by not ransomming, scamming, awoxing, ganking or otherwise doing anything EVE is about? D. Oh goodness, how wrong you are. It has been repeatedly reported in this thread that those have been, and will continue to be, completetly acceptable in game activities.
Are you reduced to just trolling now? |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
545
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:23:00 -
[908] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And that's the problem with subjectivity. Where humans, their senses, and their values are involved, everything is subjective. You better get used to that.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Prince Kobol
1580
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:23:00 -
[909] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ? Malcanis put it on about 15 pages in. Apparently there are going to be some more unwritten and unsubstantiated rules to prevent people from using this to meta people into getting banned. This despite their firm affirmation to subjectivity in "the line" being crossed when someone gets upset.
Not at all, well if you lack any kind of comprehension of the English written language and are a total psychopath yeah maybe you will have some issues. |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:23:00 -
[910] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ?
I heard that too...I think they are going to make it a thing in the next patch. No,not really I'm just messing with you.
Take a breath...in..now...out... Repeat after me: "Unless I go completely outside the bounds of acceptable human behavior I will still be able to do all the things I currently enjoy doing in this game" That help?
If you want examples of unacceptable human behavior listen to some E1 recordings. |
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
545
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:24:00 -
[911] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:The guy I bumped isn't. It only takes one randomly slung petition to stick. Then you can come on the forum with all your buddies and have your own threadnought.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Salvos Rhoska
859
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:24:00 -
[912] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: A few people who seem to completely lack the faculty of comprehending what might entail "clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world." Bullshit.
Its a quote from the CCP statement
Apparently you are one of those who cannot comprehend it that I refer to.
You could have just put your hand up, you know.
Sorry if not treating people with clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment is difficult for you to adjust to. ------------ |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:24:00 -
[913] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Danalee wrote:No linky than... Thought so, you are like your peers full of it. D. Considering that I said that I wrote such a post myself you could - for example - left click on my name under my avatar picture to the left of my post, select "View posts" in the pop-up window and go look for the link yourself. And if you continue looking through my posts you'll even find a post from November last year which was about another case that happended in the bonus room and had me saying that "I wouldn't draw that much attention to myself, if I were involved with the bonus room". But it's easier to act silly, isn't it?
Oh, wait, you want me to go treasure hunting for something that isn't there? Where, since it was you who found the hidden shrine of clarity and could just re-provide it? I am being silly right... haha, what am I thinking.... Someone said I wouldn't draw that much attention to myself that must be an excerpt from the EULA of EVE online. I'll say something silly: No rules have been broken and I have the EULA, the TOS and international law to back it up.
D.
|
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
118
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:25:00 -
[914] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:stuff
Pls refer to my last post, especially the part that is all slanty like this. thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4583
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:26:00 -
[915] - Quote
Stockholm syndrome is rampant in here. How long will Erotica 1 need to be banned before all these New Order/CODE/bonus room disciples return to normal?
Will they wake up a month from now and look back at their hero worship of a raving lunatic with embarrassment and shame? Or will it take a year or longer and some therapy? Therapy perhaps delivered EVE style if any of them ever undock.
I know it's hard to believe right now, little doves, but you'll get over it. You really will.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:27:00 -
[916] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:To me that's finding out someones personal information or bombarding someone with abusive posts. It isn't asking someone to sing after they've been scammed in a game famous for its scamming. I would agree. And that has not changed :) Except it has since that's exactly what Erotica 1 has been banned for.
Please explain in detail the thought process behind asking another player to dribble mayo on their mouth and take a picture. Then explain why E1 got so upset when people found personal details about his purchasing habits from info he left in public. Then tell us about his peanutbutter fetish. Explain why he was too extreme to remain in GS and was kicked. Why does he get his kicks from humiliating others. Then tell us all why we should give a rat's ass about another random weirdo that got caught out there fapping to other's misery.
You can't ,can you? You have to stick to the talking points you were issued. |
Salvos Rhoska
862
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:27:00 -
[917] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Except it has since that's exactly what Erotica 1 has been banned for.
How do you know what Erotica1 was banned for?
Cite your source please. ------------ |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
63
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:27:00 -
[918] - Quote
Danalee wrote:I give up on all you sheeple.
We need something akin to Godwin's Law that states, "In any internet debate, where one side can't be convinced of a conspiracy theory, someone will refer to them as sheeple".
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2880
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:27:00 -
[919] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Yes, because asking a representative of the people for clarification on an arbitrary ruling is just too much. And him trolling people is clearly what he was appointed to do right?
Without knowing where the lines are being drawn, CCP are leaving it open so they can selectively decide to ban people who have no possible way of knowing where they stand. It would be better to just ban it entirely and explicitly, since people would then know where they stand. Repeatedly asking for clarification you've been told that someone cannot and will not provide, however, is pretty dumb and that kind of dumb wares anyone down eventually. Yes, the line is a broad grey one rather than a nice neat one dividing black and white. As a result you'll need to exercise judgement and accept the consequences if you want to dance too close to the border of what is and isn't allowed. If you aren't prepared to accept those consequences then simply stay well clear of that line. So we can get banned when someone has a sad, based purely off of the decision of the GM and the way the teary eyed "victim" making a strong case, and you think that's a good thing for the game?
You better damn well hope you never upset the wrong person, since we know how fairly the grey rules have been enforced in the past. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Tyrant Scorn
161
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:27:00 -
[920] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ? I heard that too...I think they are going to make it a thing in the next patch. No,not really I'm just messing with you. Take a breath...in..now...out... Repeat after me: "Unless I go completely outside the bounds of acceptable human behavior I will still be able to do all the things I currently enjoy doing in this game" That help? If you want examples of unacceptable human behavior listen to some E1 recordings.
Who was unacceptable in that recording ? All I heard from the victim is N words, gutting peoples mother, threatening people... Who was crossing the line in that recording... you tell me... please, because I don't have a switch where I twist my morals around and allow myself to feel sorry for the victim. Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
|
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
122
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:28:00 -
[921] - Quote
To all the folks here worried about this because they can't understand what is "gameplay" and what is "sadistic", let me sum it up for you:
CCP:
Ahem.
"Just have faith in the process."
Thank you.
thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:28:00 -
[922] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Danalee wrote:stay well clear of that line by not ransomming, scamming, awoxing, ganking or otherwise doing anything EVE is about? D. Oh goodness, how wrong you are. It has been repeatedly reported in this thread that those have been, and will continue to be, completetly acceptable in game activities. Are you reduced to just trolling now?
Nope. It has been reported that we can do all that and than some. BUT If your "victim" "feels" "threatened" you should "back off" or be "banned". So how far from which line should I be to prevent someone from having feelings over stuff?
D.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2880
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:29:00 -
[923] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:As it should be otherwise players would be constantly rule lawyering. Exercise some common sense and you'll be peachy. Like people aren't going to rule lawyer anyway? I'm more worried that through convincing petitions, people are going to get banned for things that other people get away with.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:29:00 -
[924] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ssieth wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Yes, because asking a representative of the people for clarification on an arbitrary ruling is just too much. And him trolling people is clearly what he was appointed to do right?
Without knowing where the lines are being drawn, CCP are leaving it open so they can selectively decide to ban people who have no possible way of knowing where they stand. It would be better to just ban it entirely and explicitly, since people would then know where they stand. Repeatedly asking for clarification you've been told that someone cannot and will not provide, however, is pretty dumb and that kind of dumb wares anyone down eventually. Yes, the line is a broad grey one rather than a nice neat one dividing black and white. As a result you'll need to exercise judgement and accept the consequences if you want to dance too close to the border of what is and isn't allowed. If you aren't prepared to accept those consequences then simply stay well clear of that line. So we can get banned when someone has a sad, based purely off of the decision of the GM and the way the teary eyed "victim" making a strong case, and you think that's a good thing for the game? You better damn well hope you never upset the wrong person, since we know how fairly the grey rules have been enforced in the past.
Take a breath...in..now...out... Repeat after me: "Unless I go completely outside the bounds of acceptable human behavior I will still be able to do all the things I currently enjoy doing in this game" That help?
If you want examples of unacceptable human behavior listen to some E1 recordings.
|
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:30:00 -
[925] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Except it has since that's exactly what Erotica 1 has been banned for. How do you know what Erotica1 was banned for? Cite your source please.
He was banned for the bonus room, that should be pretty clear. I would hardly call what went on there the equivalent of finding out someones personal information. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1749
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:30:00 -
[926] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:hero worship of a raving lunatic with embarrassment and shame
The man is banned.
Why keep insulting him but to rub salt in the wound? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2503
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:30:00 -
[927] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Danalee wrote:stay well clear of that line by not ransomming, scamming, awoxing, ganking or otherwise doing anything EVE is about? D. Oh goodness, how wrong you are. It has been repeatedly reported in this thread that those have been, and will continue to be, completetly acceptable in game activities. Are you reduced to just trolling now? Nope. It has been reported that we can do all that and than some. BUT If your "victim" "feels" "threatened" you should "back off" or be "banned". So how far from which line should I be to prevent someone from having feelings over stuff? D.
Figure it out for yourself. Then come back and report to us if you are still able to log in. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
375
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:30:00 -
[928] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ? Malcanis put it on about 15 pages in. Apparently there are going to be some more unwritten and unsubstantiated rules to prevent people from using this to meta people into getting banned. This despite their firm affirmation to subjectivity in "the line" being crossed when someone gets upset. Not at all, well if you lack any kind of comprehension of the English written language and are a total psychopath yeah maybe you will have some issues.
lol I got called a psychopath earlier today for "liking to win" on mechwartrior online http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Genseric Tollaris
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
185
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:30:00 -
[929] - Quote
Can someone give me a quick TL;DR of the thread please? |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
391
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:31:00 -
[930] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:As it should be otherwise players would be constantly rule lawyering. Exercise some common sense and you'll be peachy. Like people aren't going to rule lawyer anyway? I'm more worried that through convincing petitions, people are going to get banned for things that other people get away with.
Let the fools try to rule lawyer and we'll leave the rest to the GM's shall we? |
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:31:00 -
[931] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ? I heard that too...I think they are going to make it a thing in the next patch. No,not really I'm just messing with you. Take a breath...in..now...out... Repeat after me: "Unless I go completely outside the bounds of acceptable human behavior I will still be able to do all the things I currently enjoy doing in this game" That help? If you want examples of unacceptable human behavior listen to some E1 recordings. Who was unacceptable in that recording ? All I heard from the victim is N words, gutting peoples mother, threatening people... Who was crossing the line in that recording... you tell me... please, because I don't have a switch where I twist my morals around and allow myself to feel sorry for the victim.
There is an "s" at the end of the word "recording" there are several. Exercise your due diligence and go find them, we don't have time to bring you up to speed. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4007
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:31:00 -
[932] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:As it should be otherwise players would be constantly rule lawyering. Exercise some common sense and you'll be peachy. Like people aren't going to rule lawyer anyway? I'm more worried that through convincing petitions, people are going to get banned for things that other people get away with.
Not empty quoting. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Prince Kobol
1581
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:31:00 -
[933] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ? Malcanis put it on about 15 pages in. Apparently there are going to be some more unwritten and unsubstantiated rules to prevent people from using this to meta people into getting banned. This despite their firm affirmation to subjectivity in "the line" being crossed when someone gets upset. Not at all, well if you lack any kind of comprehension of the English written language and are a total psychopath yeah maybe you will have some issues. lol I got called a psychopath earlier today for "liking to win" on mechwartrior online
Hehe, I been called a lot worse but then again most of it was true so can't really complain |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
375
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:32:00 -
[934] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Repeat after me: "Unless I go completely outside the bounds of acceptable human behavior I will still be able to do all the things I currently enjoy doing in this game"
killing, scamming, etc etc etc etc all completely not falling under that line roflmao
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
63
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:32:00 -
[935] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So we can get banned when someone has a sad, based purely off of the decision of the GM and the way the teary eyed "victim" making a strong case, and you think that's a good thing for the game?
If you want to believe that or pretend you believe it then fine. Noone with more than a couple of brain cells to rub together has made that interpretation.
I guess I have to rephrase what others have said 'exercise judgement' clearly isn't enough for some people and those people are probably best staying away from complex social interaction.
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2503
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:32:00 -
[936] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:As it should be otherwise players would be constantly rule lawyering. Exercise some common sense and you'll be peachy. Like people aren't going to rule lawyer anyway? I'm more worried that through convincing petitions, people are going to get banned for things that other people get away with. Not empty quoting.
If that happens then do feel to create a thread about it and see how many people agree with it. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Salvos Rhoska
862
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:33:00 -
[937] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Non-sequitor
Your homework is to read the statement 3x a day, till it sinks in its entirety.
Nothing you are talking about is in anyway justified or a concern based on the statement.
Read it. Then read it again. Then re-read it. Every day. ------------ |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
122
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:33:00 -
[938] - Quote
Genseric Tollaris wrote:Can someone give me a quick TL;DR of the thread please?
Coffee Rocks wrote:To all the folks here worried about this because they can't understand what is "gameplay" and what is "sadistic", let me sum it up for you:
CCP:
Ahem.
"Just have faith in the process."
Thank you.
thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:33:00 -
[939] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Danalee wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Danalee wrote:stay well clear of that line by not ransomming, scamming, awoxing, ganking or otherwise doing anything EVE is about? D. Oh goodness, how wrong you are. It has been repeatedly reported in this thread that those have been, and will continue to be, completetly acceptable in game activities. Are you reduced to just trolling now? Nope. It has been reported that we can do all that and than some. BUT If your "victim" "feels" "threatened" you should "back off" or be "banned". So how far from which line should I be to prevent someone from having feelings over stuff? D. Figure it out for yourself. Then come back and report to us if you are still able to log in.
Altough I don't agree with you, for some reason I do like you. Please be a candidate for the next CSM election?
D.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
375
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:33:00 -
[940] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:hero worship of a raving lunatic with embarrassment and shame The man is banned. Why keep insulting him but to rub salt in the wound?
Why are you torturing the man? Youre gonna get banned. Or doesnt this extend to forums? I never saw the answer to that http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
208
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:33:00 -
[941] - Quote
Danalee wrote:stay well clear of that line by not ransomming, scamming, awoxing, ganking or otherwise doing anything EVE is about? I'm sure you'll say nono, that's all nicely withing the invisible lines drawn. All good. I give up on all you sheeple. D.
Tyrant Scorn wrote:So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ?
If your judgement is indeed that poor, then yes, better avoid such actions if you believe that they might get you in trouble. Or HTFU, reread the OP and move along.
|
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
67
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:33:00 -
[942] - Quote
I have one, single, very important question for CCP: Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?
I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?
Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?
This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of. |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1952
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:34:00 -
[943] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:hero worship of a raving lunatic with embarrassment and shame The man is banned. Why keep insulting him but to rub salt in the wound?
Sounds like harassment to me. |
Kirsi Kirjasto
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
60
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:34:00 -
[944] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: A few people who seem to completely lack the faculty of comprehending what might entail "clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world." Bullshit. Its a quote from the CCP statement Apparently you are one of those who cannot comprehend it that I refer to. You could have just put your hand up, you know. Sorry if not treating people with clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment is difficult for you to adjust to.
Unfortunately, you do not understand what 'real life' is. 'Outside of EVE' doesn't mean it takes place in 'real life'. Its still 'cyberspace.'
Chatting with a complete stranger on Teamspeak isn't "real life" as both parties are anonymous.
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
64
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:35:00 -
[945] - Quote
Genseric Tollaris wrote:Can someone give me a quick TL;DR of the thread please?
whinge..whine...I can't do this....Malcanis can I do that?...whinge...exchange full tear jar with an empty....whinge...what if?...what if?...what if?....Malcanis? ....Malcanis?....Malcanis?....Malcanis?...exchange full tear jar with an empty...snifle...
DO try and keep up! |
One Eyed Runner
Caldari Naval Auxiliary Services
25
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:35:00 -
[946] - Quote
with all the bitching going on, I can only assume that most of you have not been in the military. In the military rules change hourly depending on you commanding office and how he feels, get use to it and you will rarely be disappointed in life I live in Jita so f*ck off |
Prince Kobol
1585
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:35:00 -
[947] - Quote
Klyith wrote:I have one, single, very important question for CCP: Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?
I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?
Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?
This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of.
Did the Wiz report The Mittani?
If he didn't then I guess using your logic CCP should of not banned The Mittani. |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
124
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:35:00 -
[948] - Quote
Coffee Rocks wrote:To all the folks here worried about this because they can't understand what is "gameplay" and what is "sadistic", let me sum it up for you:
CCP:
Ahem.
"Just have faith in the process."
Thank you.
thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Salvos Rhoska
864
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:36:00 -
[949] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Except it has since that's exactly what Erotica 1 has been banned for. How do you know what Erotica1 was banned for? Cite your source please. He was banned for the bonus room, that should be pretty clear. I would hardly call what went on there the equivalent of finding out someones personal information.
How do you know what Erotica1 was banned for?
Cite your source please. ------------ |
Kaius Fero
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:36:00 -
[950] - Quote
I wanna scam, gank &**** = goon. But hey, I'm also cheap.. no tenbux :( Should I shoot somebody to get in the line? I'm a 1% biker .. so you know.... |
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
819
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:36:00 -
[951] - Quote
A lot of snide comments and slanderous remarks being directed at Erotica 1, why if id say there are quite a few folks harassing this individual who has already received punishment for his actions. |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
124
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:37:00 -
[952] - Quote
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: A few people who seem to completely lack the faculty of comprehending what might entail "clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against players in the outside world." Bullshit. Its a quote from the CCP statement Apparently you are one of those who cannot comprehend it that I refer to. You could have just put your hand up, you know. Sorry if not treating people with clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment is difficult for you to adjust to. Unfortunately, you do not understand what 'real life' is. 'Outside of EVE' doesn't mean it takes place in 'real life'. Its still 'cyberspace.' Chatting with a complete stranger on Teamspeak isn't "real life" as both parties are anonymous.
Coffee Rocks wrote:To all the folks here worried about this because they can't understand what is "gameplay" and what is "sadistic", let me sum it up for you:
CCP:
Ahem.
"Just have faith in the process."
Thank you.
I think I could quote myself all day. My ego is liking this. thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Tyrant Scorn
161
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:37:00 -
[953] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Genseric Tollaris wrote:Can someone give me a quick TL;DR of the thread please? whinge..whine...I can't do this....Malcanis can I do that?...whinge...exchange full tear jar with an empty....whinge...what if?...what if?...what if?....Malcanis? ....Malcanis?....Malcanis?....Malcanis?...exchange full tear jar with an empty...snifle... DO try and keep up!
That is a pretty nice write up brah, you should be a writer ! Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Louis Robichaud
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
206
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:37:00 -
[954] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Louis Robichaud wrote: It's starting to sound like it doesn't it? And who would have known that griefer tears would be such a delicate nectar?
So you don't feel the dev post provides very little guidance, and does not address the issue at hand. You changed your mind and thought now to be as good a time as any to join the army of pitchfork wielding trolls. Gotcha Louis. And here I was thinking you had a mind of your own D.
Awww Danalee, I thought we were such good friends!
Let me explain a bit. My first post was written after reading the original post and a page or two. I didn't have the time at that point to read the whole thread. Yes, very evil of me, my bad.
However, after reading more, both what Malcanis said and that fact that Erotica1 seems to have been banned, well it made it clear that the bonus room *was* going too far in CCP's view. Thus I - and you - have obtained clarification.
Now some people are demanding much clearer rules than that. As far as I can figure out, there are three possible reasons for this (and they may vary depending on the person asking).
1: They want to dance on that rule, tear harvest as much as possible without getting banned.
2: They don't have any empathy, and can't tell when they are being cruel to others.
3: They are dumb as door-nobs.
Some of the objections I've heard are ridiculous "oh no, I accidentally bumped into someone and he flipped out and now I'm going to get banned". Come on now, don't be ridiculous.
So to those who want a crystal clear rule you can dance on without going over, that they are now upset with having to live with the fear of being banned: HTFU!
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
66
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:37:00 -
[955] - Quote
Genseric Tollaris wrote:Can someone give me a quick TL;DR of the thread please?
CCP aren't saying that they've banned Erotica 1 and the CSM aren't confirming that CCP have banned Erotica 1.
CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.
Large chunks of the populace are butt-hurt because they no longer feel they can be psychopathic without getting banned and don't feel able to apply the good judgement that the rest of the community seem to manage to muster.
Despite assurances that ganking/scamming/awoxing etc are still OK a post will pop up every 3 or 4 opining the fact that people can no longer gank/scam/awox.
Every 10th post will be entirely irrelevant to the thread.
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:38:00 -
[956] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ? I heard that too...I think they are going to make it a thing in the next patch. No,not really I'm just messing with you. Take a breath...in..now...out... Repeat after me: "Unless I go completely outside the bounds of acceptable human behavior I will still be able to do all the things I currently enjoy doing in this game" That help? If you want examples of unacceptable human behavior listen to some E1 recordings. Who was unacceptable in that recording ? All I heard from the victim is N words, gutting peoples mother, threatening people... Who was crossing the line in that recording... you tell me... please, because I don't have a switch where I twist my morals around and allow myself to feel sorry for the victim. There is an "s" at the end of the word "recording" there are several. Exercise your due diligence and go find them, we don't have time to bring you up to speed.
Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide. |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
124
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:38:00 -
[957] - Quote
One Eyed Runner wrote:with all the bitching going on, I can only assume that most of you have not been in the military. In the military rules change hourly depending on you commanding office and how he feels, get use to it and you will rarely be disappointed in life
BOHICA.
7o thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2880
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:38:00 -
[958] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Ssieth wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Yes, because asking a representative of the people for clarification on an arbitrary ruling is just too much. And him trolling people is clearly what he was appointed to do right?
Without knowing where the lines are being drawn, CCP are leaving it open so they can selectively decide to ban people who have no possible way of knowing where they stand. It would be better to just ban it entirely and explicitly, since people would then know where they stand. Repeatedly asking for clarification you've been told that someone cannot and will not provide, however, is pretty dumb and that kind of dumb wares anyone down eventually. Yes, the line is a broad grey one rather than a nice neat one dividing black and white. As a result you'll need to exercise judgement and accept the consequences if you want to dance too close to the border of what is and isn't allowed. If you aren't prepared to accept those consequences then simply stay well clear of that line. So we can get banned when someone has a sad, based purely off of the decision of the GM and the way the teary eyed "victim" making a strong case, and you think that's a good thing for the game? You better damn well hope you never upset the wrong person, since we know how fairly the grey rules have been enforced in the past. Take a breath...in..now...out... Repeat after me: "Unless I go completely outside the bounds of acceptable human behavior I will still be able to do all the things I currently enjoy doing in this game" That help? If you want examples of unacceptable human behavior listen to some E1 recordings. I have, and what I heard was the "victim" hurling real life threats, insults and racism around, as well as admitting to account sharing while the scammers were asking, quite politely, for the "victim" to perform various tasks. I mean **** me, if someone came up to me in the street and asked me to sing a few songs, I would start freaking out and screaming harassment at the top of my lungs.
So as far as I can see: - Real life threats: Fine - Personal Attacks: Fine - Racism: Fine - Account Sharing: Fine - Asking for songs: Disallowed - Asking for readings of selected texts: Disallowed
Seems like this can;t be right, so yeah, I'm gonna continue to ask for clarification. How many songs is "too many"?
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Prince Kobol
1585
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:38:00 -
[959] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:A lot of snide comments and slanderous remarks being directed at Erotica 1, why if I didn't know better id say there are quite a few folks harassing this individual who has already received punishment for his actions.
Shame that nobody has broken any forums rules and have kept things nice and civil. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
549
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:38:00 -
[960] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You better damn well hope you never upset the wrong person, since we know how fairly the grey rules have been enforced in the past. Good advice. Might I suggest you stop posting.
Lucas Kell wrote:I'm more worried that through convincing petitions, people are going to get banned for things that other people get away with. You are truly a great humanitarian. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4571
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:39:00 -
[961] - Quote
Well.
I think the topic is done with.
CCP stayed to their doctrines and within their established powers regarding the intent and purpose of their game and property. They have successfully protected it from an attack this week.
CSM showed their worth in this process and I am left rethinking my attitude about them.
Grief fetishists are sent a message while nobody's ganking/piracy/stealing/scamming playstyle is being changed or threatened (except in the minds of grief fetishists who use said activities as their "vehicle")
Well done. I think CCP and the CSM has earned their pay for the week. I take my leave to now consume fermented hops in mass quantities knowing that the game I care about will survive this, and that in spite of a small minority of people who could use some help, still has the best player base with some of the best people you could ever meet (and shoot - in game of course). Even the players I don't like, who have peeled my ships like bananas, I still hold in high regard.
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2880
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:39:00 -
[962] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:As it should be otherwise players would be constantly rule lawyering. Exercise some common sense and you'll be peachy. Like people aren't going to rule lawyer anyway? I'm more worried that through convincing petitions, people are going to get banned for things that other people get away with. Let the fools try to rule lawyer and we'll leave the rest to the GM's shall we? Sure, they've never been biased or anything, right? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
549
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:39:00 -
[963] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:A lot of snide comments and slanderous remarks being directed at Erotica 1, why if id say there are quite a few folks harassing this individual who has already received punishment for his actions. Who is Erotica1? I am unaware anyone with that name plays Eve Online. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4588
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:39:00 -
[964] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:hero worship of a raving lunatic with embarrassment and shame The man is banned. Why keep insulting him but to rub salt in the wound?
Good. You're past the anger. Now you are in the pain and self loathing stage. The next is acceptance.
I wish you luck with it. It won't be an easy journey, but you'll be a better man for it when it's over.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
955
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:40:00 -
[965] - Quote
Coffee Rocks wrote: Please, continue debating CCP and the CSM on what they've made perfectly clear. If you are still fuzzy and can't understand it by now, chances are you might be next.
Dammit Coffee, do you have to encourage them?
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
64
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:40:00 -
[966] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:Genseric Tollaris wrote:Can someone give me a quick TL;DR of the thread please? whinge..whine...I can't do this....Malcanis can I do that?...whinge...exchange full tear jar with an empty....whinge...what if?...what if?...what if?....Malcanis? ....Malcanis?....Malcanis?....Malcanis?...exchange full tear jar with an empty...snifle... DO try and keep up! That is a pretty nice write up brah, you should be a writer !
Thanks, I try to keep it pithy.
I like your jacket it suits your menacing affect. |
Wesley Otsdarva
Asuratech Industrial Corp AAA Citizens
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:40:00 -
[967] - Quote
Please everyone. The threadnaught of old is dead. CCP have spoken.
If you do not understand the announcement made by CCP. I would ask them for clarification. Not the General Discussion forum.
Please stop bringing up old topics from a locked thread. Or insulting other players for their own interpretation of what CCP said. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
549
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:40:00 -
[968] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Sure, they've never been biased or anything, right? Everyone is biased. News at 11. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Prince Kobol
1585
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:40:00 -
[969] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.
So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay? |
Salvos Rhoska
864
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:40:00 -
[970] - Quote
Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:Chatting with a complete stranger on Teamspeak isn't "real life" as both parties are anonymous.
Wat. ------------ |
|
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
64
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:41:00 -
[971] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:So what it all comes down to is that I can no longer gank people in WH space, because I might gank a thin skinned cry baby who goes all berserk on me and reports me to CCP... is that what's happening here now ? I heard that too...I think they are going to make it a thing in the next patch. No,not really I'm just messing with you. Take a breath...in..now...out... Repeat after me: "Unless I go completely outside the bounds of acceptable human behavior I will still be able to do all the things I currently enjoy doing in this game" That help? If you want examples of unacceptable human behavior listen to some E1 recordings. Who was unacceptable in that recording ? All I heard from the victim is N words, gutting peoples mother, threatening people... Who was crossing the line in that recording... you tell me... please, because I don't have a switch where I twist my morals around and allow myself to feel sorry for the victim. There is an "s" at the end of the word "recording" there are several. Exercise your due diligence and go find them, we don't have time to bring you up to speed. Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.
Please explain in detail the thought process behind asking another player to dribble mayo on their mouth and take a picture. Then explain why E1 got so upset when people found personal details about his purchasing habits from info he left in public. Then tell us about his peanutbutter fetish. Explain why he was too extreme to remain in GS and was kicked. Why does he get his kicks from humiliating others. Then tell us all why we should give a rat's ass about another random weirdo that got caught out there fapping to other's misery.
You can't ,can you? You have to stick to the talking points you were issued. |
Genseric Tollaris
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
186
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:42:00 -
[972] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Genseric Tollaris wrote:Can someone give me a quick TL;DR of the thread please? CCP aren't saying that they've banned Erotica 1 and the CSM aren't confirming that CCP have banned Erotica 1. CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS. Large chunks of the populace are butt-hurt because they no longer feel they can be psychopathic without getting banned and don't feel able to apply the good judgement that the rest of the community seem to manage to muster. Despite assurances that ganking/scamming/awoxing etc are still OK a post will pop up every 3 or 4 opining the fact that people can no longer gank/scam/awox. Every 10th post will be entirely irrelevant to the thread.
Thankyou. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
795
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:42:00 -
[973] - Quote
Klyith wrote:I have one, single, very important question for CCP: Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?
I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?
Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?
This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of.
Marvelous!
Before leaving to the closest pub to drink myself in a happy sturpor I wanted to write my final post about what troubles me in this debacle. You sir did it for me and with much more panache I could ever muster up. From the bottom of my dark hearth, thank you. Also, my bartender thanks you too!
D. OUT.
|
Prince Kobol
1585
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:42:00 -
[974] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:As it should be otherwise players would be constantly rule lawyering. Exercise some common sense and you'll be peachy. Like people aren't going to rule lawyer anyway? I'm more worried that through convincing petitions, people are going to get banned for things that other people get away with. Let the fools try to rule lawyer and we'll leave the rest to the GM's shall we? Sure, they've never been biased or anything, right?
I do not know if the GM's have ever been biased, could you example where this has happened? |
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:42:00 -
[975] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.
So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay?
If you read the rest of my post you'll see that while I admit Sokhars reaction was extreme it was not because I believe Erotica went too far. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2503
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:42:00 -
[976] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:Chatting with a complete stranger on Teamspeak isn't "real life" as both parties are anonymous. Wat.
By extension, this thread isn't real life. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1464
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:42:00 -
[977] - Quote
One Eyed Runner wrote:with all the bitching going on, I can only assume that most of you have not been in the military. In the military rules change hourly depending on you commanding office and how he feels, get use to it and you will rarely be disappointed in life
Confirming. I was once a 13F. One Infantry commander doesn't understand why there's Artillerymen in his unit, and thinks we're all Detail Specialists. Life sucks in FiSTerland. He moves on, and a new commander takes over, who thinks his FO's are just plain ducky, and lets us train to our blackened hearts' content. Life is awesome in FiSTerland.
(please refrain from crude sexual jokes.... FiSTer stands for "Fire Support Team Member"... yes, I know it sounds funny. Deal with it) That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Salvos Rhoska
864
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:43:00 -
[978] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:A lot of snide comments and slanderous remarks being directed at Erotica 1, why if id say there are quite a few folks harassing this individual who has already received punishment for his actions.
Just pointing out that to my knowledge Erotica1, as banned, is no longer part of the EVE community, and hence not under protection of EULA or any concern of CCPs any longer. ------------ |
Genseric Tollaris
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
186
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:43:00 -
[979] - Quote
Well I suppose the only way to find where the line is is to go back to high sec and take a big crap in the sandbox and try to get banned. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2880
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:43:00 -
[980] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:You better damn well hope you never upset the wrong person, since we know how fairly the grey rules have been enforced in the past. Good advice. Might I suggest you stop posting. You may indeed suggest it. I support freedom of speech you see.Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I'm more worried that through convincing petitions, people are going to get banned for things that other people get away with. You are truly a great humanitarian. Thanks muchly.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:44:00 -
[981] - Quote
Danalee wrote:
Yes, harassment = BAN THE WITCH. Harassment needs a victim -> No victims in this case. Harassment needs to be reported -> No report made. Harssment in game (which the EULA applies to) needs to be verified in the logs -> logs show nothing.
Guy with issues (greed, whatever) conned into the whole scam culminating in bonus room. Guy with issues (rage, whatever) stays in bonus room and says terrible things as he is deliberately humiliated for the entertainment of the scam's organizer and friends long after all his in-game assets are theirs. I note that the moment they had all his stuff, this no longer had anything to do with EVE.
Scam organizer and friends publish recording outside of game for public LOLz. Most normal, reasonable people find this repugnant. Forum shitstorm ensues.
CCP and CSM, being for the most part normal, reasonable people, agree and take action.
Sorry...the fact that the scammer and friends conned said guy with issues to come back to their TS channel and say nice things (wonder what they offered him that was not on the TS chat they published) does not undue anything that went before. It does not excuse or erase anything.
Sounds pretty clear-cut to me. This game is a service provided by CCP. They run it pretty fast-and-loose which is part of the appeal but still Their property. "No shoes, no shirt, no service" and so on. If I don't like the way they run it I am free to stop using their service. If they don't like the way I use it they are free to kick me out.
Arguments about rules, laws, TOS, EULA...irrelevant. Arguments that nothing happened because no formal complaint was made...likewise, irrelevant (especially with the original recording out there for all to hear). This is private property.
Strikes me that if anybody is not OK with this outcome, or finds the notion of the service provider acting to protect their reputation and brand somehow unjust, maybe they ought to leave the game. I'm sure EVE will survive without you.
|
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
208
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:44:00 -
[982] - Quote
Danalee wrote:I'll say something silly: No rules have been broken and I have the EULA, the TOS and international law to back it up. D. Yes, that's silly. Because it's obviously wrong. And I have a CCP decision to back it up. |
Prince Kobol
1585
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:44:00 -
[983] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.
So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay? If you read the rest of my post you'll see that while I admit Sokhars reaction was extreme it was not because I believe Erotica went too far.
Fair enough, if you believe Sokhars reaction was extreme, but was not caused by any actions by Erotica, then what do you believe caused such an extreme reaction from Sokhar? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2886
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:45:00 -
[984] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sure, they've never been biased or anything, right? Everyone is biased. News at 11. I could got back to one of the several times and hundreds of posts where people like you have complained about GM bias, but I think we all know where it leads. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:45:00 -
[985] - Quote
Genseric Tollaris wrote:Can someone give me a quick TL;DR of the thread please?
Someone got scammed, tears were made, then collected, someone got banned for it. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Prince Kobol
1589
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:46:00 -
[986] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sure, they've never been biased or anything, right? Everyone is biased. News at 11. I could got back to one of the several times and hundreds of posts where people like you have complained about GM bias, but I think we all know where it leads.
Please do provide links to these hundreds of posts, it shouldn't be too hard if there is that many. |
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:48:00 -
[987] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:
Please explain in detail the thought process behind asking another player to dribble mayo on their mouth and take a picture. Then explain why E1 got so upset when people found personal details about his purchasing habits from info he left in public. Then tell us about his peanutbutter fetish. Explain why he was too extreme to remain in GS and was kicked. Why does he get his kicks from humiliating others. Then tell us all why we should give a rat's ass about another random weirdo that got caught out there fapping to other's misery.
You can't ,can you? You have to stick to the talking points you were issued.
I didn't reply to this the last 3 or 4 times you posted it because I'm talking about Sokhar's bonus room as this seems to be the direct reason for Erotica's ban. I'm unfamiliar with the things you have posted, and considering how much has been made of the mayo incident I find it implausible that it actually happened considering this is the internet and the pictures have never popped up. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
551
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:49:00 -
[988] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sure, they've never been biased or anything, right? Everyone is biased. News at 11. I could got back to one of the several times and hundreds of posts where people like you have complained about GM bias, but I think we all know where it leads. People like me, or me? Because for a guy who keeps crying about a lack of precision, that's a pretty big leap to claim I (someone you have never met) is a lot like someone else (that you have also never met).
GMs are biased. Politicians are crooked. Cops are corrupt. News at 11. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:49:00 -
[989] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.
So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay? If you read the rest of my post you'll see that while I admit Sokhars reaction was extreme it was not because I believe Erotica went too far. Fair enough, if you believe Sokhars reaction was extreme, but was not caused by any actions by Erotica, then what do you believe caused such an extreme reaction from Sokhar?
Thin skin and lack of understanding of the game he's playing. |
Louis Robichaud
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
207
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:50:00 -
[990] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:A lot of snide comments and slanderous remarks being directed at Erotica 1, why if id say there are quite a few folks harassing this individual who has already received punishment for his actions. Who is Erotica1? I am unaware anyone with that name plays Eve Online.
Had I been drinking coffee, I would have spread it all over my monitor, possibly damaging it. STOP HARASSING ME WITH YOUR HUMOUR!!!!
;) |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2886
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:51:00 -
[991] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sure, they've never been biased or anything, right? Everyone is biased. News at 11. I could got back to one of the several times and hundreds of posts where people like you have complained about GM bias, but I think we all know where it leads. Please do provide links to these hundreds of posts, it shouldn't be too hard if there is that many. I'm not going to be baited into looking about for specific posts for you to disect, and I'm not entirely sure on what is allowed to be stated and not about the specific situations, needless to say that if you've been playing more than a few years you should remember times when certain GMs in certain alliances were playing for their side.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:51:00 -
[992] - Quote
One Eyed Runner wrote:with all the bitching going on, I can only assume that most of you have not been in the military. In the military rules change hourly depending on you commanding office and how he feels, get use to it and you will rarely be disappointed in life
Yeah, cause real life in the military is EXACTLY how a game should be run.
ugh, people who cant differentiate between game and life bug the **** out of me. Like the guy that got scammed. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Ahost Gceo
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
38
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:51:00 -
[993] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Ahost Gceo wrote:Quote: I tried snipping. I failed, I am sorry.
Quote:Care Bear?!? Do you have any idea who you are messing with? This is the King of J-Space, you should be happy he even let you comment in his thread. I generally don't like pulling the "this is who I am" epeen card but it would behoove someone in an argument to either learn something about his opponent so he can make accurate remarks or just skip the ad hominem insinuations altogether. That being said, you should see Proc Diadochu whip it on C4 nerds in their threads. He is the king of J-Space shitposting. B) I was being sincere. J-space is end game and your corp has a lot of history. props Well, if you have a humble pie floating around I'll take a piece. I don't discriminate, I hate everyone equally. |
Salvos Rhoska
867
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:51:00 -
[994] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:I'm talking about Sokhar's bonus room as this seems to be the direct reason for Erotica1's ban. You are speculating. Nobody here knows, or has said, what CCPs specific reason for its actions are.
All we know, is that Erotica1 is atleast temp banned, possibly perma, and that the statement at the top of this thread was posted by CCP.
You are drawing conclusions that you do not have the information to back up. ------------ |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:52:00 -
[995] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Klyith wrote:I have one, single, very important question for CCP: Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?
I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?
Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?
This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of. Did the Wiz report The Mittani? If he didn't then I guess using your logic CCP should of not banned The Mittani.
Wait, they banned him after the fact? Oh you mean that three month slap on the wrist.
Not the permaban this guy is getting. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:52:00 -
[996] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Okay lets buy your argument for just a second here...
Its really irrelevant as to when Ripard found out, its to when CCP found out. And it should have been found out when threads started getting locked in C&P. If they didnt know then, then someone needs to get in ISD's ass for dropping the ball. Because isn't it their job to moderate the forums and when something grossly breaks the rules to forward it to a game master for investigation? If CCP didn't know 8 months ago then take a wild guess at who wasn't doing their job....
The Sohkar incident was about a month ago, so I guess it's possible they've taken a while to figure out what to do, but yeah, even so, that does seem pretty slow. And if those other incidents I've heard on audio happened before that and were discussed here, they've had even longer to address it.
I think sometimes it takes having people outside the system to connect the dots. There've been big companies who were aware of weird stuff going on but never quite put it together as something to be addressed until someone who doesn't work there said, "Umm, you realize how crappy this is, right?"
I think the delay isn't GREAT, and I'm hoping they're becoming more aware and proactive about stuff, but I don't see a personal vendetta or conspiracy angle in the delay, either. |
Prince Kobol
1589
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:53:00 -
[997] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.
So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay? If you read the rest of my post you'll see that while I admit Sokhars reaction was extreme it was not because I believe Erotica went too far. Fair enough, if you believe Sokhars reaction was extreme, but was not caused by any actions by Erotica, then what do you believe caused such an extreme reaction from Sokhar? Thin skin and lack of understanding of the game he's playing.
The game he was playing, I thought Eve was about shooting space pixels, I didn't realise it also involved being humiliated and then having a recording of it all placed on the internet.
Must of missed that part on the advertising, need to ask CCP to make a promo vid. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:53:00 -
[998] - Quote
Coffee Rocks wrote:Coffee Rocks wrote:To all the folks here worried about this because they can't understand what is "gameplay" and what is "sadistic", let me sum it up for you:
CCP:
Ahem.
"Just have faith in the process."
Thank you.
I like this idea better:
"To all the folks here worried about this because they can't understand what is "gameplay" and what is "sadistic", let me sum it up for you:
CCP: HARDEN THE **** UP
Thank you"
I like the old CCP better http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:53:00 -
[999] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Klyith wrote:I have one, single, very important question for CCP: Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?
I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?
Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?
This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of. Did the Wiz report The Mittani? If he didn't then I guess using your logic CCP should of not banned The Mittani. Mittani's action was in a CCP venue where CCP had direct evidence of the problem.
Erotica1's harassment was on a separate service that has to be brought to CCP's attention for them to know about it. I only want to know if the standard is now that 3rd-party reporting of out-of-game violations is sufficient for action.
(Also he probably had petitioned Mittani before that and been rejected. The whole story behind The Wiz was that he got scammed and then sent a lot of mails to people in GF about killing himself because of it. Mittens and other people had reposted those mails for mockery, which likely led to distributed harassment from lots of people in GSF. Should he have been banned months before the drunken fanfest outrage?)
|
Prince Kobol
1589
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:54:00 -
[1000] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sure, they've never been biased or anything, right? Everyone is biased. News at 11. I could got back to one of the several times and hundreds of posts where people like you have complained about GM bias, but I think we all know where it leads. Please do provide links to these hundreds of posts, it shouldn't be too hard if there is that many. I'm not going to be baited into looking about for specific posts for you to disect, and I'm not entirely sure on what is allowed to be stated and not about the specific situations, needless to say that if you've been playing more than a few years you should remember times when certain GMs in certain alliances were playing for their side.
Been playing for 4 years, I can't remember any instances where a GM has been proved to show any bias towards any group. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
377
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:54:00 -
[1001] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:A lot of snide comments and slanderous remarks being directed at Erotica 1, why if id say there are quite a few folks harassing this individual who has already received punishment for his actions.
Lotta that coming from the CSM guys too
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4589
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:55:00 -
[1002] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Wait, they banned him after the fact? Oh you mean that three month slap on the wrist.
Not the permaban this guy is getting.
Link, please.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:56:00 -
[1003] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:
The game he was playing, I thought Eve was about shooting space pixels, I didn't realise it also involved being humiliated and then having a recording of it all placed on the internet.
Must of missed that part on the advertising, need to ask CCP to make a promo vid.
We've already gone over this, he was scammed and then given the run around for a little in TS, it's no worse than a trash talk in local. Plenty of others went through the same thing and didn't react like a lunatic because they understood being scammed and wound up is a possibility. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2888
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:57:00 -
[1004] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Been playing for 4 years, I can't remember any instances where a GM has been proved to show any bias towards any group. Look further back. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Coffee Rocks
Thrall Nation Brave Collective
127
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:57:00 -
[1005] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:A lot of snide comments and slanderous remarks being directed at Erotica 1, why if id say there are quite a few folks harassing this individual who has already received punishment for his actions. Lotta that coming from the CSM guys too
*sips his coffee* thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com Twitter: @thecoffeerocks |-áSteam: CoffeeRocks | thecoffeerocks.blogspot.com https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=327221 |
stoicfaux
4309
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:58:00 -
[1006] - Quote
+1 to CCP.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:58:00 -
[1007] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Well.
I think the topic is done with.
CCP stayed to their doctrines and within their established powers regarding the intent and purpose of their game and property. They have successfully protected it from an attack this week.
CSM showed their worth in this process and I am left rethinking my attitude about them.
Grief fetishists are sent a message while nobody's ganking/piracy/stealing/scamming playstyle is being changed or threatened (except in the minds of grief fetishists who use said activities as their "vehicle")
Well done. I think CCP and the CSM has earned their pay for the week. I take my leave to now consume fermented hops in mass quantities knowing that the game I care about will survive this, and that in spite of a small minority of people who could use some help, still has the best player base with some of the best people you could ever meet (and shoot - in game of course). Even the players I don't like, who have peeled my ships like bananas, I still hold in high regard.
AH HAHAHAHAHA http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
82
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:59:00 -
[1008] - Quote
Ssieth wrote: CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.
Can I summarize your posts thusly:
"If you're a player who chooses to skirt the harassment portions of the EULA, you risk getting banned, and that is completely your fault for choosing to play in such a manner"
That distill it all down? |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2504
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:59:00 -
[1009] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Well.
I think the topic is done with.
CCP stayed to their doctrines and within their established powers regarding the intent and purpose of their game and property. They have successfully protected it from an attack this week.
CSM showed their worth in this process and I am left rethinking my attitude about them.
Grief fetishists are sent a message while nobody's ganking/piracy/stealing/scamming playstyle is being changed or threatened (except in the minds of grief fetishists who use said activities as their "vehicle")
Well done. I think CCP and the CSM has earned their pay for the week. I take my leave to now consume fermented hops in mass quantities knowing that the game I care about will survive this, and that in spite of a small minority of people who could use some help, still has the best player base with some of the best people you could ever meet (and shoot - in game of course). Even the players I don't like, who have peeled my ships like bananas, I still hold in high regard.
AH HAHAHAHAHA
Considering your signature, your response to this is particularly entertaining.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:59:00 -
[1010] - Quote
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:Please everyone. The threadnaught of old is dead. CCP have spoken.
If you do not understand the announcement made by CCP. I would ask them for clarification. Not the General Discussion forum.
Please stop bringing up old topics from a locked thread. Or insulting other players for their own interpretation of what CCP said.
Ah youre a mod...
Oh wait no...
Um go away. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
47
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 22:59:00 -
[1011] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Ssieth wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Yes, because asking a representative of the people for clarification on an arbitrary ruling is just too much. And him trolling people is clearly what he was appointed to do right?
Without knowing where the lines are being drawn, CCP are leaving it open so they can selectively decide to ban people who have no possible way of knowing where they stand. It would be better to just ban it entirely and explicitly, since people would then know where they stand. Repeatedly asking for clarification you've been told that someone cannot and will not provide, however, is pretty dumb and that kind of dumb wares anyone down eventually. Yes, the line is a broad grey one rather than a nice neat one dividing black and white. As a result you'll need to exercise judgement and accept the consequences if you want to dance too close to the border of what is and isn't allowed. If you aren't prepared to accept those consequences then simply stay well clear of that line. So we can get banned when someone has a sad, based purely off of the decision of the GM and the way the teary eyed "victim" making a strong case, and you think that's a good thing for the game? You better damn well hope you never upset the wrong person, since we know how fairly the grey rules have been enforced in the past. Take a breath...in..now...out... Repeat after me: "Unless I go completely outside the bounds of acceptable human behavior I will still be able to do all the things I currently enjoy doing in this game" That help? If you want examples of unacceptable human behavior listen to some E1 recordings. I have, and what I heard was the "victim" hurling real life threats, insults and racism around, as well as admitting to account sharing while the scammers were asking, quite politely, for the "victim" to perform various tasks. I mean **** me, if someone came up to me in the street and asked me to sing a few songs, I would start freaking out and screaming harassment at the top of my lungs. So as far as I can see: - Real life threats: Fine - Personal Attacks: Fine - Racism: Fine - Account Sharing: Fine - Asking for songs: Disallowed - Asking for readings of selected texts: Disallowed Seems like this can;t be right, so yeah, I'm gonna continue to ask for clarification. How many songs is "too many"?
ok where has anyone said that the racism and threats where allowed. Also in your opinion did this not go beyond a scam . Think about it the scammers got all his assets and still continued . At that point was this still a scam
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:00:00 -
[1012] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.
So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay?
How many miners/missioners have to die before THATS no longer ok? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Prince Kobol
1591
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:01:00 -
[1013] - Quote
Klyith wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Klyith wrote:I have one, single, very important question for CCP: Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?
I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?
Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?
This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of. Did the Wiz report The Mittani? If he didn't then I guess using your logic CCP should of not banned The Mittani. Mittani's action was in a CCP venue where CCP had direct evidence of the problem. Erotica1's harassment was on a separate service that has to be brought to CCP's attention for them to know about it. I only want to know if the standard is now that 3rd-party reporting of out-of-game violations is sufficient for action. (Also he probably had petitioned Mittani before that and been rejected. The whole story behind The Wiz was that he got scammed and then sent a lot of mails to people in GF about killing himself because of it. Mittens and other people had reposted those mails for mockery, which likely led to distributed harassment from lots of people in GSF. Should he have been banned months before the drunken fanfest outrage?)
Pretty sure the Wiz never petitioned CCP about the The Mittani telling everybody to encourage him to commit suicide.
TheWiz had no idea what happened at fanfest until it hit the Eve Forums.
You could say, and many still do, the only reason CCP acted was because the outrage of the Eve community that somebody though it was funny to encourage other people to harass somebody who stated that he might kill himself.
Funny enough I actually think most of that was a complete over reaction, people do say stupid things when drunk and trying to show off in front of there peers.
I honestly believe there was never any intent on The Mittani's part for theWiz to actually commit suicide and the ban he received was fair.
E1's actions however were premeditated. His single goal was not the scam itself but to cause as much humiliation as he could
|
Jebediah Phoenix
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:03:00 -
[1014] - Quote
olan2005 wrote: ok where has anyone said that the racism and threats where allowed. Also in your opinion did this not go beyond a scam . Think about it the scammers got all his assets and still continued . At that point was this still a scam
Have I gone beyond a gank if I trash talk in local? Having the guy sing a few songs is not much different. Plenty of things in this game are not done for any real gain. |
Louis Robichaud
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
208
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:03:00 -
[1015] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Louis Robichaud wrote:
1: They want to dance on that rule, tear harvest as much as possible without getting banned.
2: They don't have any empathy, and can't tell when they are being cruel to others.
3: They are dumb as door-nobs.
1: Cause this isnt a game. 2: Cause game = real life right? 3: HOW THE **** do you get off calling someone else dumb and you misspell DOORKNOB -.-
1: You pay EVE online to harvest tears? Interesting.
2: You are aware that real people play the game right? That a flesh and bone human being controls that rifter?
3: Ah, the curse of English as a second language strikes again! Or perhaps it's irony. The number of times I've seen someone criticizing someone's else "intellegence" (sic)... I guess it was bound to happen to me.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:03:00 -
[1016] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Klyith wrote:I have one, single, very important question for CCP: Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?
I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?
Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?
This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of. Marvelous! Before leaving to the closest pub to drink myself in a happy sturpor I wanted to write my final post about what troubles me in this debacle. You sir did it for me and with much more panache I could ever muster up. From the bottom of my dark hearth, thank you. Also, my bartender thanks you too! D. OUT.
I love you Danalee XD http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Salvos Rhoska
868
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:03:00 -
[1017] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Been playing for 4 years, I can't remember any instances where a GM has been proved to show any bias towards any group. Look further back. You are the guy who said there where hundreds of such posts evidenced biased GMs.
Now you are telling us they are more than 4 years back?
Please, man... ------------ |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
392
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:04:00 -
[1018] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Klyith wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Klyith wrote:I have one, single, very important question for CCP: Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?
I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?
Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?
This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of. Did the Wiz report The Mittani? If he didn't then I guess using your logic CCP should of not banned The Mittani. Mittani's action was in a CCP venue where CCP had direct evidence of the problem. Erotica1's harassment was on a separate service that has to be brought to CCP's attention for them to know about it. I only want to know if the standard is now that 3rd-party reporting of out-of-game violations is sufficient for action. (Also he probably had petitioned Mittani before that and been rejected. The whole story behind The Wiz was that he got scammed and then sent a lot of mails to people in GF about killing himself because of it. Mittens and other people had reposted those mails for mockery, which likely led to distributed harassment from lots of people in GSF. Should he have been banned months before the drunken fanfest outrage?) Pretty sure the Wiz never petitioned CCP about the The Mittani telling everybody to encourage him to commit suicide. TheWiz had no idea what happened at fanfest until it hit the Eve Forums. You could say, and many still do, the only reason CCP acted was because the outrage of the Eve community that somebody though it was funny to encourage other people to harass somebody who stated that he might kill himself. Funny enough I actually think most of that was a complete over reaction, people do say stupid things when drunk and trying to show off in front of there peers. I honestly believe there was never any intent on The Mittani's part for theWiz to actually commit suicide and the ban he received was fair. E1's actions however were premeditated. His single goal was not the scam itself but to cause as much humiliation as he could
Even though I'm firmly in the "Grrrr, goons!" camp, I think that's a very fair assessment.
|
Prince Kobol
1591
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:04:00 -
[1019] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:
The game he was playing, I thought Eve was about shooting space pixels, I didn't realise it also involved being humiliated and then having a recording of it all placed on the internet.
Must of missed that part on the advertising, need to ask CCP to make a promo vid.
We've already gone over this, he was scammed and then given the run around for a little in TS, it's no worse than a trash talk in local. Plenty of others went through the same thing and didn't react like a lunatic because they understood being scammed and wound up is a possibility.
Right, I get you. So just because you found the one guy who wasn't mental stable enough to take it and blew his top, it shouldn't matter because everybody was okay with it. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:05:00 -
[1020] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Kinis Deren wrote:As it should be otherwise players would be constantly rule lawyering. Exercise some common sense and you'll be peachy. Like people aren't going to rule lawyer anyway? I'm more worried that through convincing petitions, people are going to get banned for things that other people get away with. Let the fools try to rule lawyer and we'll leave the rest to the GM's shall we? Sure, they've never been biased or anything, right? I do not know if the GM's have ever been biased, could you please provide examples where this has happened?
Wasnt it ... ack who is it that used to run Hulkageddon....
That one person, who got a ban - from the game and all - for telling someone to "DIAF" on the forums and that was seen as a real; life threat.... uh huh.... not biased at all. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
341
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:07:00 -
[1021] - Quote
Klyith wrote:I have one, single, very important question for CCP: Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened? As far as we know, no he did not. He said he almost forgot about the incident until he started getting mail about it.
New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
383
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:07:00 -
[1022] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kirsi Kirjasto wrote:Chatting with a complete stranger on Teamspeak isn't "real life" as both parties are anonymous. Wat. By extension, this thread isn't real life.
Nor is this game, as much problem ppl here seem to have with the whole separating IRL with game lately. ****, when I read this thread to start with, I thought the rumors of where theres a war/fight and someone sneaks to someone else's house and cuts the power to his house so theyll win the fight were true lol http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaius Fero
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:08:00 -
[1023] - Quote
I the case that none know how a glory hole works out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_bsMGsBjWc
Oh dear....
|
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
38
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:08:00 -
[1024] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Louis Robichaud wrote: It's starting to sound like it doesn't it? And who would have known that griefer tears would be such a delicate nectar?
So you don't feel the dev post provides very little guidance, and does not address the issue at hand. You changed your mind and thought now to be as good a time as any to join the army of pitchfork wielding trolls. Gotcha Louis. And here I was thinking you had a mind of your own D.
Maybe if you spend a little more time trolling, it might become a bit more apparent.. |
Prince Kobol
1592
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:09:00 -
[1025] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Wasnt it ... ack who is it that used to run Hulkageddon....
That one person, who got a ban - from the game and all - for telling someone to "DIAF" on the forums and that was seen as a real; life threat.... uh huh.... not biased at all.
It was reversed later but still. That should have cost a moderator a job.
IRL
What you mean because Helicity Boson broke the rules which are quite explicated about that subject he shouldn't of got banned?
Are you actually saying that telling a CCP Employee to die in a ******* fire should not receive a ban?
Also he was banned because he unlocked the security on a CCP Internal PDF document and then posted it contents. You know.. the Fearless Document?
I am pretty damn sure that you will struggle to find anybody who will say that telling a CCP Employee to DIAF should not receive a ban |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
82
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:09:00 -
[1026] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Ssieth wrote: CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.
Can I summarize your posts thusly: "If you're a player who chooses to skirt the harassment portions of the EULA, you risk getting banned, and that is completely your fault for choosing to play in such a manner" That distill it all down?
Okay... I'll take the "Ssieth has liked your post" notification to mean "yes". Great... moving right along then:
It's **Definition Time** XD
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/harass
Subject to aggressive pressure or intimidation
So, by that definition, anyone in this game who subjects anyone else in this game to "aggressive pressure or intimidation" is skirting the harassment portions of the EULA.
Now name something you can do in game, in an adversarial context, that doesn't fit that definition.
Go on.
I'll wait. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2506
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:11:00 -
[1027] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:H aVo K wrote:Ssieth wrote: CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.
Can I summarize your posts thusly: "If you're a player who chooses to skirt the harassment portions of the EULA, you risk getting banned, and that is completely your fault for choosing to play in such a manner" That distill it all down? Okay... I'll take the "Ssieth has liked your post" notification to mean "yes". Great... moving right along then: It's **Definition Time** XD http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/harassSubject to aggressive pressure or intimidationSo, by that definition, anyone in this game who subjects anyone else in this game to "aggressive pressure or intimidation" is skirting the harassment portions of the EULA. Now name something you can do in game, in an adversarial context, that doesn't fit that definition. Go on. I'll wait.
You keep on missing the part where a rule doesn't have to be broken for CCP to act. Suck it up.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
383
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:11:00 -
[1028] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:One Eyed Runner wrote:with all the bitching going on, I can only assume that most of you have not been in the military. In the military rules change hourly depending on you commanding office and how he feels, get use to it and you will rarely be disappointed in life Confirming. I was once a 13F. One Infantry commander doesn't understand why there's Artillerymen in his unit, and thinks we're all Detail Specialists. Life sucks in FiSTerland. He moves on, and a new commander takes over, who thinks his FO's are just plain ducky, and lets us train to our blackened hearts' content. Life is awesome in FiSTerland. (please refrain from crude sexual jokes.... FiSTer stands for "Fire Support Team Member"... yes, I know it sounds funny. Deal with it)
In my unit in MWO we have guys who 'say' they were in the military, is it true that when firing a .50 cal belt fed that the way you keep it from overheating is to say/scream "die ************ die" when pulling the trigger? It was a funny thing they said that actually helped me in that game funnily enough http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:13:00 -
[1029] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:olan2005 wrote: ok where has anyone said that the racism and threats where allowed. Also in your opinion did this not go beyond a scam . Think about it the scammers got all his assets and still continued . At that point was this still a scam
Have I gone beyond a gank if I trash talk in local? Having the guy sing a few songs is not much different. Plenty of things in this game are not done for any real gain. Then how is it that so many people upon listening to the, you know, two+ hours of audio have been disgusted by it? Or after listening to the other Bonus Round clips out there?
It's just hard to see how someone comes away from listening to those with an "Oh, it's just singing a few songs" conclusion.
I don't know if people
a) haven't listened to them, b) *have* listened and think that stuff's reasonable, or c) realize it's bad but keep posturing this way because they can't back down. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2889
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:14:00 -
[1030] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I have, and what I heard was the "victim" hurling real life threats, insults and racism around, as well as admitting to account sharing while the scammers were asking, quite politely, for the "victim" to perform various tasks. I mean **** me, if someone came up to me in the street and asked me to sing a few songs, I would start freaking out and screaming harassment at the top of my lungs.
So as far as I can see: - Real life threats: Fine - Personal Attacks: Fine - Racism: Fine - Account Sharing: Fine - Asking for songs: Disallowed - Asking for readings of selected texts: Disallowed
Seems like this can;t be right, so yeah, I'm gonna continue to ask for clarification. How many songs is "too many"?
ok where has anyone said that the racism and threats where allowed. Also in your opinion did this not go beyond a scam . Think about it the scammers got all his assets and still continued . At that point was this still a scam Well since there were clearly threats and racism on the recording and the player involved was not banned, that tells me that they allowed it.
And I didn't say it wasn't more than a scam. At what point though do you think they crossed the line? He didn't get irate until very late into the recording, and shortly afterwards they terminated it after ensuring he knew they'd robbed him.
And in the same vein, when people ransom ships for songs, that's more than a scam too, so is that disallowed? It would seem to me that it is, right? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
392
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:14:00 -
[1031] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Okay... I'll take the "Ssieth has liked your post" notification to mean "yes". Great... moving right along then: It's **Definition Time** XD http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/harassSubject to aggressive pressure or intimidationSo, by that definition, anyone in this game who subjects anyone else in this game to "aggressive pressure or intimidation" is skirting the harassment portions of the EULA. Now name something you can do I N G A M E, in an adversarial context, that doesn't fit that definition. Go on. I'll wait.
Ahhh, here we go.
I've bolded, underlined and capitalised the important part of your question. That makes it not harrassment according to CCP's rules and proclimations (so long as it doen't extend to griefing or other TOS breaking activity of course).
|
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
495
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:15:00 -
[1032] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Wasnt it ... ack who is it that used to run Hulkageddon....
That one person, who got a ban - from the game and all - for telling someone to "DIAF" on the forums and that was seen as a real; life threat.... uh huh.... not biased at all.
It was reversed later but still. That should have cost a moderator a job.
IRL
You're thinking about Helicity Boson. And no, that's not why Helicity got banned. You can google the name and see the story. |
Prince Kobol
1592
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:15:00 -
[1033] - Quote
Well folks thats enough for me, pretty sure this thread has reached the end.
Think it was Antisocial Malkavian who finally broke me by saying that that being banned for telling a CCP employee to DIAF is wrong and that is proof of GM's showing bias.
Wow this community really does attract some strange people.
Night all |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4175
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:15:00 -
[1034] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:Danalee wrote:How much for PinkPanter? D. tree fiddy
Damn you lockness monstah!
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
stoicfaux
4309
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:15:00 -
[1035] - Quote
To the people who are still "rules lawyering" over this. Rules lawyering does not trump common sense, basic human morals and/or the Game Master.
/dating_myself
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2890
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:17:00 -
[1036] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:olan2005 wrote: ok where has anyone said that the racism and threats where allowed. Also in your opinion did this not go beyond a scam . Think about it the scammers got all his assets and still continued . At that point was this still a scam
Have I gone beyond a gank if I trash talk in local? Having the guy sing a few songs is not much different. Plenty of things in this game are not done for any real gain. Then how is it that so many people upon listening to the, you know, two+ hours of audio have been disgusted by it? Or after listening to the other Bonus Round clips out there? It's just hard to see how someone comes away from listening to those with an "Oh, it's just singing a few songs" conclusion. I don't know if people a) haven't listened to them, b) *have* listened and think that stuff's reasonable, or c) realize it's bad but keep posturing this way because they can't back down. Have you actually listened to them? They are really not as bad as people make out. I can only think that a lot of people campaigning so hard against it are doing so because of the blog posts about it rather than first hand information. Anyone with a CSM member campaigning personally against them is going to stand little hope as so many people will side with them just because they are the CSM.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Gregor Parud
368
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:18:00 -
[1037] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:To the people who are still "rules lawyering" over this. Rules lawyering does not trump common sense, basic human morals and/or the Game Master.
/dating_myself
Pretty much this.
Ingame "funny stuff" against a pilot is what the game is about but people should have the common sense to KEEP it in game and not extend that to RL people. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:19:00 -
[1038] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Have I gone beyond a gank if I trash talk in local? Having the guy sing a few songs is not much different. Plenty of things in this game are not done for any real gain.
Trash talking after a fight is all about your ego. Personally, I find players who feel the need to do that to be weak. They are just like children on a playground, trying to paper over their own insecurity with posturing. It's a waste of time. As is responding to it.
You say something repugnant enough while you are trash talking, you will find yourself wondering why that banhammer hit you so hard. Even if you personally can't understand. Seen people banned for stuff said/posted in local. And every time they acted surprised, as if they couldn't imagine why.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2890
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:21:00 -
[1039] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:To the people who are still "rules lawyering" over this. Rules lawyering does not trump common sense, basic human morals and/or the Game Master.
/dating_myself Nobody is "rules lawyering". We just want clarification so people won't get banned because they asked for a song and some random threw a fit, or that they will get banned for that, and know it. It's really not that big a deal, but so may people are so against Erotica 1 that they want to argue with anything that seems to be against the OP. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
496
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:21:00 -
[1040] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Well since there were clearly threats and racism on the recording and the player involved was not banned, that tells me that they allowed it.
And I didn't say it wasn't more than a scam. At what point though do you think they crossed the line? He didn't get irate until very late into the recording, and shortly afterwards they terminated it after ensuring he knew they'd robbed him.
And in the same vein, when people ransom ships for songs, that's more than a scam too, so is that disallowed? It would seem to me that it is, right?
So your theory is that the racism and threats that the victim spouted after how long in the bonus room? should get him a ban. What a good idea. Then the goal of the Bonus Room would be to get the victims to stay stuff that would get them banned, right? Because that would be even funnier and there would still be the delicious meltdown. Really? Ban somebody who was pushed into a meltdown for what he said when it happened. Very wise.
There's no point in repeating that the victim could walk away because the whole design of the Bonus Room is predicated on the fact that some of the victims would not be able to walk away and would provide the delicious emotional feast that the participants needed.
Why did the participants sit there with this guy for two hours? Waiting for the bonanza of his meltdown. No other reason. If you don't already see what's wrong with that picture, you never will. |
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
72
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:22:00 -
[1041] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:H aVo K wrote:Ssieth wrote: CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.
Can I summarize your posts thusly: "If you're a player who chooses to skirt the harassment portions of the EULA, you risk getting banned, and that is completely your fault for choosing to play in such a manner" That distill it all down? Okay... I'll take the "Ssieth has liked your post" notification to mean "yes". Great... moving right along then: It's **Definition Time** XD http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/harassSubject to aggressive pressure or intimidationSo, by that definition, anyone in this game who subjects anyone else in this game to "aggressive pressure or intimidation" is skirting the harassment portions of the EULA. Now name something you can do in game, in an adversarial context, that doesn't fit that definition. Go on. I'll wait.
I think you're confusing your definition of harrassment with CCPs. Skirt your's and there's no problem. Skirt CCPs and you risk banning. Those are the EULA and ToS you've singed up to and if you want to risk violating them in the eyes of CCP and I'm not to argue that you shouldn't. You know the consequences and if you didn't before then this incident has been a reminder/useful prompt. If you don't agree those rules you've basically got a range of choices:
1. ***** about it uselessly here (and provide those that are interested in harvesting your tears amusement - no, I'm not one of them). 2. Speak to CCP and see if you can persuade them to change their mind. 3. Speak to your CSM representatives and see if you can persuade them to speak to CCP on your behalf. 4. Stand for CSM, get elected and speak to CCP direct. 5. Take your chances with the EULA/ToS and see if you get banned. 6. HTFU and accept that this is CCP's game and they make the rules and they decide how to articulate them. 7. Find a game more to your liking.
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2890
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:23:00 -
[1042] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Been playing for 4 years, I can't remember any instances where a GM has been proved to show any bias towards any group. Look further back. You are the guy who said there where hundreds of such posts evidenced biased GMs. Now you are telling us they are more than 4 years back? Please, man... Yes, because 4 years back means it never happened right? People never went ape **** at bias because it pre-dates you. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2890
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:25:00 -
[1043] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:stoicfaux wrote:To the people who are still "rules lawyering" over this. Rules lawyering does not trump common sense, basic human morals and/or the Game Master.
/dating_myself Pretty much this. Ingame "funny stuff" against a pilot is what the game is about but people should have the common sense to KEEP it in game and not extend that to RL people. So in your mind, asking for a song for ransom is wrong then, right? As that's out of game? Legit question.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
378
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:27:00 -
[1044] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Danalee wrote:I give up on all you sheeple. We need something akin to Godwin's Law that states, "In any internet debate, where one side can't be convinced of a conspiracy theory, someone will refer to them as sheeple".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssieth%27s_Law
You're welcome. To repeat, the skill split is scheduled for the big Summer 2013 expansion. ~CCP Fozzie |
Wesley Otsdarva
Asuratech Industrial Corp AAA Citizens
33
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:27:00 -
[1045] - Quote
General Discussion
Wat R u Doing?
General Discussion
Stahp.
EDIT: IB4L This thread has seriously derailed. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
75
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:28:00 -
[1046] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:stoicfaux wrote:To the people who are still "rules lawyering" over this. Rules lawyering does not trump common sense, basic human morals and/or the Game Master.
/dating_myself Pretty much this. Ingame "funny stuff" against a pilot is what the game is about but people should have the common sense to KEEP it in game and not extend that to RL people. So in your mind, asking for a song for ransom is wrong then, right? As that's out of game? Legit question.
Honestly? It wouldn't bother me - anyone subjecting themselves to my singing voice is obviously more masochist than sadist. However - if you really pushed and pushed, obviously upsetting someone and continuig to do so regardless? Then I'd expect it, as per the terms of service defined by CCP to be a petitionable offence. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
75
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:29:00 -
[1047] - Quote
Glathull wrote:Ssieth wrote:Danalee wrote:I give up on all you sheeple. We need something akin to Godwin's Law that states, "In any internet debate, where one side can't be convinced of a conspiracy theory, someone will refer to them as sheeple". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssieth%27s_LawYou're welcome.
Yay! I have a law! And it has an oblique reference to sheep.... which look like clouds on legs :D W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Salvos Rhoska
871
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:30:00 -
[1048] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:I don't know if people
a) haven't listened to them, b) *have* listened and think that stuff's reasonable, or c) realize it's bad but keep posturing this way because they can't back down.
Funny thing related to this, from my perspective, is that EVE's reputation as a den of antisocial evil monsters, is actually remarkably misplaced, and a result of confusing it with the levity in aggressing other players that are possible in it.
Other MMOs have communities that, atleast imo, are orders of magnitude more toxic than ours here. MOBAS and FPS also are filled with language and treatment of other people that it is so foul, it would be unconscionable if you where actual face to face with the people you are shouting them at.
Out there, b), is a very common answer to equivalent questions out there.
People have become very desensitized, as demonstrated by the difficulty of quite a few posters here to understand what the statement from CCP means. I don't entirely blame them for this. Its "normal" in a lot of ways these days.
Because online behavior has become so dehumanising, I guess it is reasonable that people might indeed need to have it "explained" to them more concisely what exactly is allowed and what isn't. They genuinely may not be able to distinguish the difference... ------------ |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
393
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:32:00 -
[1049] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Been playing for 4 years, I can't remember any instances where a GM has been proved to show any bias towards any group. Look further back. You are the guy who said there where hundreds of such posts evidenced biased GMs. Now you are telling us they are more than 4 years back? Please, man... Yes, because 4 years back means it never happened right? People never went ape **** at bias because it pre-dates you.
Mate, in the spirit of helping a fellow player out, can I suggest dropping your repeated suggestions of GM bias. From that "Forum rules" linky to the top right:
Quote:30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
383
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:32:00 -
[1050] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Danalee wrote:I'll say something silly: No rules have been broken and I have the EULA, the TOS and international law to back it up. D. Yes, that's silly. Because it's obviously wrong. And I have a CCP decision to back it up.
What decision was that? They dont seem to have made any changes.
And yeah, cause CCP are infallible too, right?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
82
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:32:00 -
[1051] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:H aVo K wrote:H aVo K wrote:Ssieth wrote: CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.
Can I summarize your posts thusly: "If you're a player who chooses to skirt the harassment portions of the EULA, you risk getting banned, and that is completely your fault for choosing to play in such a manner" That distill it all down? Okay... I'll take the "Ssieth has liked your post" notification to mean "yes". Great... moving right along then: It's **Definition Time** XD http://www. oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/harass Subject to aggressive pressure or intimidationSo, by that definition, anyone in this game who subjects anyone else in this game to "aggressive pressure or intimidation" is skirting the harassment portions of the EULA. Now name something you can do in game, in an adversarial context, that doesn't fit that definition. Go on. I'll wait. I think you're confusing your definition of harrassment with CCPs. Skirt your's and there's no problem. Skirt CCPs and you risk banning. Those are the EULA and ToS you've singed up to and if you want to risk violating them in the eyes of CCP and I'm not to argue that you shouldn't. You know the consequences and if you didn't before then this incident has been a reminder/useful prompt. If you don't agree those rules you've basically got a range of choices: 1. ***** about it uselessly here (and provide those that are interested in harvesting your tears amusement - no, I'm not one of them). 2. Speak to CCP and see if you can persuade them to change their mind. 3. Speak to your CSM representatives and see if you can persuade them to speak to CCP on your behalf. 4. Stand for CSM, get elected and speak to CCP direct. 5. Take your chances with the EULA/ToS and see if you get banned. 6. HTFU and accept that this is CCP's game and they make the rules and they decide how to articulate them. 7. Find a game more to your liking.
o.O
We're well into dead horse territory, and I think I'm done.
Back to nullbearing it, I go.
For the record, I'm having to be a filthy renter *because* hisec is so broken that groups like CODE and E1 & Co. have been able to turn it into a cesspit.
It's akin to that old saying: I don't agree with what you're saying, but I'll defend, to the death, your right to say it. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:34:00 -
[1052] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:Then how is it that so many people upon listening to the, you know, two+ hours of audio have been disgusted by it? Or after listening to the other Bonus Round clips out there?
It's just hard to see how someone comes away from listening to those with an "Oh, it's just singing a few songs" conclusion.
I don't know if people
a) haven't listened to them, b) *have* listened and think that stuff's reasonable, or c) realize it's bad but keep posturing this way because they can't back down. Have you actually listened to them? They are really not as bad as people make out. I can only think that a lot of people campaigning so hard against it are doing so because of the blog posts about it rather than first hand information. Anyone with a CSM member campaigning personally against them is going to stand little hope as so many people will side with them just because they are the CSM. Yes, I've listened to them. Those are a few hours of my life I can't get back. Heh.
You may be right that some people haven't and are basing their opinions on what others say happened. Hell, that happens IRL with people wholesale adopting opinions from their shouty radio personality of choice.
I've listened to them, and so have a number of others.
I stand by my opinion that some of what's going on in those sessions is 10 shades of creepy. You may not see it that way (item b above), and that's your prerogative. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
383
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:34:00 -
[1053] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.
So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay? If you read the rest of my post you'll see that while I admit Sokhars reaction was extreme it was not because I believe Erotica went too far. Fair enough, if you believe Sokhars reaction was extreme, but was not caused by any actions by Erotica, then what do you believe caused such an extreme reaction from Sokhar?
Bipolar disorder, Im guessing, along with an already present rage issue. Is that the scammer's fault as well?
Cause then you get back to ganking the miner/missioner and having the same reaction.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2890
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:35:00 -
[1054] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:So your theory is that the racism and threats that the victim spouted after how long in the bonus room? should get him a ban. What a good idea. Yes, yes I do. I don't think racism should EVER be tolerated. I dunno, maybe I'm just an ******* that way.
Ban Bindy wrote:Then the goal of the Bonus Room would be to get the victims to stay stuff that would get them banned, right? Because that would be even funnier and there would still be the delicious meltdown. Really? Ban somebody who was pushed into a meltdown for what he said when it happened. Very wise. So when you give someone your ingame items, then you, by choice, go into their TS server then, by choice, sing songs and read selected texts staying, by choice, nearly 2 hours thinking you might get some isk out of it, then yo get told it;s all a scam, your reaction is to start hurling racist remarks around? That would really be your problem then, surely? At no point is the "victim" forced into doing anything, it's all by choice (which the "victim" has stated himself). And his choice of words again is his own choice.
Ban Bindy wrote:There's no point in repeating that the victim could walk away because the whole design of the Bonus Room is predicated on the fact that some of the victims would not be able to walk away and would provide the delicious emotional feast that the participants needed.
Why did the participants sit there with this guy for two hours? Waiting for the bonanza of his meltdown. No other reason. If you don't already see what's wrong with that picture, you never will. The participants sat there through greed and stupidity. They were greedy to try to multiply their isk in the first place and they were too stupid to Google the legitimacy of the person they were dealing with.
And like I've previously stated, if they don't want people doing out of game stuff, then they should clearly state that. I'll back any decision CCP wants to make on the matter as long as they make it clear where the line is drawn. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
381
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:35:00 -
[1055] - Quote
Wesley Otsdarva wrote: . . . .
If you do not understand the announcement made by CCP. I would ask them for clarification.
. . . .
Actually, I wouldn't. CCP has been crystal clear about what the guidelines are: whatever CCP decides they are. Just like before this; just like it will always be.
This is the best possible outcome. I was a little worried that CCP would over-do things and draw a clear line. They haven't, and they won't. This is a very good thing.
Kudos to both CCP and the CSM for handling this so well. I resubbed because of it.
Cheers, everyone. It's Friday evening where I am. Time to drink too much and get my spaceships blown up.
To repeat, the skill split is scheduled for the big Summer 2013 expansion. ~CCP Fozzie |
Jebediah Phoenix
The Conference Elite CODE.
33
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:35:00 -
[1056] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Have I gone beyond a gank if I trash talk in local? Having the guy sing a few songs is not much different. Plenty of things in this game are not done for any real gain.
Trash talking after a fight is all about your ego. Personally, I find players who feel the need to do that to be weak. They are just like children on a playground, trying to paper over their own insecurity with posturing. It's a waste of time. As is responding to it. You say something repugnant enough while you are trash talking, you will find yourself wondering why that banhammer hit you so hard. Even if you personally can't understand. Seen people banned for stuff said/posted in local. And every time they acted surprised, as if they couldn't imagine why.
I'm never foul in local, I would never host a bonus room. But that doesn't mean I want light hearted banter banned, whether it be making someone sing in TS or trash talking in local. And when I say trash talking, I certainly don't mean anything nasty, I mean stuff like recommending a permit tank. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
383
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:35:00 -
[1057] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote: I'm talking about Sokhar's bonus room as this seems to be the direct reason for Erotica's ban.
Wait, I thought they werent bannable?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
79
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:35:00 -
[1058] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Funny thing related to this, from my perspective, is that EVE's reputation as a den of antisocial evil monsters, is actually remarkably misplaced, and a result of confusing it with the levity in aggressing other players that are possible in it.
You make an excellent point there and this thread, along with the previous thread-nought is ample evidence of the degree of concern that a great number of the player-base have regarding the health and reputation of the community.
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3140
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:36:00 -
[1059] - Quote
So... I would like a little clarification from the powers that be:
Hypothetically, of course, would you get permabanned for something like this, or would it be like for a few months?
Nevermind... case-by-case... got it.
|
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
341
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:37:00 -
[1060] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Guy with issues (greed, whatever) conned into the whole scam culminating in bonus room. Guy with issues (rage, whatever) stays in bonus room and says terrible things as he is deliberately humiliated for the entertainment of the scam's organizer and friends long after all his in-game assets are theirs. I note that the moment they had all his stuff, this no longer had anything to do with EVE. The reason for keeping the mark in chat is so that the mark is always the one that gives up, and the scammer never goes back on their word. I will not disagree that it went too far in this case.
Bael Malefic wrote: Scam organizer and friends publish recording outside of game for public LOLz. Most normal, reasonable people find this repugnant. Forum shitstorm ensues.
The mark agrees to this at the beginning of the bonus room. If can be argued that that agreement is under duress due to the scammers having his assets, but it is given, and for most people any concerns about voice chat being published would outweigh ingame items. I'm going to assume this was not a huge concern.
Bael Malefic wrote: CCP and CSM, being for the most part normal, reasonable people, agree and take action.
Sorry...the fact that the scammer and friends conned said guy with issues to come back to their TS channel and say nice things (wonder what they offered him that was not on the TS chat they published) does not undue anything that went before. It does not excuse or erase anything.
I can understand your issues with this. Sohkar actually sought Ero out, not the other way around. Late in the stream Ero did contract Sohkar around 1.5 bill in assets.
I'm not going to respond you your conclusion because you are entitled to your opinion, but I did want to clear those points up. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
|
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:37:00 -
[1061] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:Danalee wrote:I'll say something silly: No rules have been broken and I have the EULA, the TOS and international law to back it up. D. Yes, that's silly. Because it's obviously wrong. And I have a CCP decision to back it up. What decision was that? They dont seem to have made any changes. And yeah, cause CCP are infallible too, right?
Decision didn't go your way. Rage and tears flow.
CCP made their decision. Their brand, their service, their right to interpret their rules however they see fit.
Get over it. You are free to leave if this is not acceptable.
Freedom to leave...now that *is* real freedom. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2892
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:38:00 -
[1062] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Yes, I've listened to them. Those are a few hours of my life I can't get back. Heh.
You may be right that some people haven't and are basing their opinions on what others say happened. Hell, that happens IRL with people wholesale adopting opinions from their shouty radio personality of choice.
I've listened to them, and so have a number of others.
I stand by my opinion that some of what's going on in those sessions is 10 shades of creepy. You may not see it that way (item b above), and that's your prerogative. There's levels of creepiness sure, and if it were up to me, the practice of out of game comms to get people singing songs and such would just be banned outright and clearly shown as so. I wouldn't consider what was done specifically as harassment though. The "victim" always had the option to walk away and it's not like the identity of the person running the show couldn't be easily checked. If people choose to do that then choose to sing songs and read stuff, that's their problem.
If someone came up to me in the street asking me to sings song and read books to them, I wouldn't start singing and reading, then start screaming "Help! I'm being harassed!", I'd walk away. Now if at that point they contnued to hound me, then I'd claim harassment. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:41:00 -
[1063] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: I can understand your issues with this. Sohkar actually sought Ero out, not the other way around. Late in the stream Ero did contract Sohkar around 1.5 bill in assets.
I'm not going to respond you your conclusion because you are entitled to your opinion, but I did want to clear those points up.
Fair enough. Everybody is always free to form their own opinions and judgements but unless you are able to interpret those in the right context, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
I don't have to agree with the way CCP has come down on this issue. I have a choice: accept it as given and carry on or take my toys someplace else.
Simplez.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
383
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:43:00 -
[1064] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Jebediah Phoenix wrote:
Sokhars was the exception, not the rule. Most victims felt disgruntled but accepted they were scammed and given the run around. And as far as I can tell those bonus rooms would not be bannable, it's only because Erotica has been interpreted to have gone too far by continuing to ask for songs after Sokhar flipped out. I disagree that it was too far because it was Sokhar who acted unreasonably in response to being scammed. Further I do not approve of how personal you are getting over a minor disagreement over something in an online game, either you want a debate or you want insult throwing, decide.
So are you saying that so long as it only one person who has been humiliated or harassed then its okay? If you read the rest of my post you'll see that while I admit Sokhars reaction was extreme it was not because I believe Erotica went too far. Fair enough, if you believe Sokhars reaction was extreme, but was not caused by any actions by Erotica, then what do you believe caused such an extreme reaction from Sokhar? Thin skin and lack of understanding of the game he's playing.
He failed his HTFU roll http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
MajorBean
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:46:00 -
[1065] - Quote
With that ban our loved sandbox lost alot of sand, Erotica 1 you will be remembered.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4014
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:46:00 -
[1066] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:stoicfaux wrote:To the people who are still "rules lawyering" over this. Rules lawyering does not trump common sense, basic human morals and/or the Game Master.
/dating_myself Nobody is "rules lawyering". We just want clarification so people won't get banned because they asked for a song and some random threw a fit, or that they will get banned for that, and know it. It's really not that big a deal, but so may people are so against Erotica 1 that they want to argue with anything that seems to be against the OP.
Yeah, pretty much this. In a game where players have ransomed the developers themselves for a song, I'd like to know about things like that.
Especially, as I have seen mentioned in the thread, "Trust the GMs" isn't really something I can do. Considering they've done and said such self contradictory things as "You can be banned for impersonating yourself". And I'm supposed to trust their objectivity? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
388
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:46:00 -
[1067] - Quote
LOL
You know what all of this says to me?
If you embarrass CCP or get publicity they dont like, they ban you and pretend you did something bad. See: Kugutsumen.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:48:00 -
[1068] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:
Please explain in detail the thought process behind asking another player to dribble mayo on their mouth and take a picture. Then explain why E1 got so upset when people found personal details about his purchasing habits from info he left in public. Then tell us about his peanutbutter fetish. Explain why he was too extreme to remain in GS and was kicked. Why does he get his kicks from humiliating others. Then tell us all why we should give a rat's ass about another random weirdo that got caught out there fapping to other's misery.
You can't ,can you? You have to stick to the talking points you were issued.
I'm still waiting on that proof by the way? Any chance it will show up before i go to sleep?
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
388
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:49:00 -
[1069] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:
The game he was playing, I thought Eve was about shooting space pixels, I didn't realise it also involved being humiliated and then having a recording of it all placed on the internet.
Must of missed that part on the advertising, need to ask CCP to make a promo vid.
I must have missed the part where HE HIMSELF could have stopped that treatment AT ANY TIME and yet didnt.
DC from game, DC from TS, chalk it up to being stupid and start over. Why is this not HIS fault at all for not doing this? Why are we absolving the poor dumb guy of all responsibility for doing this? Is this the new EVE?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1008
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:50:00 -
[1070] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:LOL
You know what all of this says to me?
If you embarrass CCP or get publicity they dont like, they ban you and pretend you did something bad. See: Kugutsumen.
And that's totally their right to do so.
While I don't agree with what I know of the punishment handed out, I have only read a few things, so can't form a full opinion on it yet.
I just hope that out of this, the sandbox is not affected any further.
I also hope that while the character of Erotica 1 has presumably been banned indefinitely, the player behind the character hasn't been. '' |
|
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
72
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:51:00 -
[1071] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote: I honestly believe there was never any intent on The Mittani's part for theWiz to actually commit suicide and the ban he received was fair.
E1's actions however were premeditated. His single goal was not the scam itself but to cause as much humiliation as he could
I don't care whether or not Mittens' or Erotica's bans are "fair". I don't care if either was premeditated or caused by jajerbombs. I don't care if humiliation or suicide was intended or not.
I would be ok with CCP banning Erotica1 even if Sohkar didn't petition, if the reason they gave was just that he was detrimental to the game and they were using the "we reserve the right to ban at any time even if you didn't violate TOS" clause. They can do that. Banned for being an a--hole and pain in their neck is a thing, and if I suspected that I caused CCP more expense in GM time than I paid in subscriptions I wouldn't be surprised if CCP said I wasn't welcome.
But given that this announcement is not just about Erotica1, I strongly care about whether
CCP wrote:clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment can be interpreted without a claim of harassment by a presumptive victim. A denial by that person that they felt harassed makes it difficult! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
388
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:52:00 -
[1072] - Quote
Man, when Star Citizen changed their forum (as theres no game yet, cant wait to see how THAT translates - KOS lists are also not allowed there lol) rules to where if you say anything negative at all, about the person you are talking to you can get banned, I thought coming back here would be so much more fun because they couldnt do stupid **** like that in THIS game...
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
47
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:53:00 -
[1073] - Quote
MajorBean wrote:With that ban our loved sandbox lost alot of sand, Erotica 1 you will be remembered.
the sandbox gained in my opinion. A precedent was set on how far you can go with regards to your interaction with others. It is fine as stated by CCP to scam . thief , spy and all the usual meta gaming. The majority of people agree with this(me included)
The problem comes when you intentionally set out to cause someone psychological distress to breaking point , and harass them for HOURS OR DAYS ON END . When you go out of your way to do NOTHING MORE THAN INFLICT PAIN ON ANOTHER WITHOUT ANY OTHER OBJECTIVE IN MIND
All virtual communities , forums, other MMOS, Social media have guidelines meant to moderate behaviour within their community . A member of this community did something which the bulk of the community do not agree with and stated that fact. This is a game, but like all games people are involved . There are limits to what you can do to another human being |
Salvos Rhoska
872
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:54:00 -
[1074] - Quote
Freedom, and responsibility, are two diametrically opposed elements that nonetheless are intrinsically linked.
There can never be one, without the other.
What this means in practice for EVE and the sandbox, is that the more responsible everyone is for their own conduct, the greater freedom all of us can enjoy, commensurately.
It is bad apples like in this case that force restrictions on the rest of us, because of those people abusing the freedom they had in ways that are ultimately irresponsible.
This supports why it is good that CCPs statement, though clear on the conditions it does stipulate, still keeps a wide margin of interpretation.
Some of you are perceiving that wide margin as a threat, in terms of being afraid you might fall into it accidentally. But you are not realising that that wide margin of interpretation also protects you from exactly that, by allowing CCP room to maneuver and interpret on individual cases, whereas if the rules where absolute and very rigidly defined, youd be SOL.
I wouldn't worry that this statement significantly narrows anyone's freedom in the game. It is however, a reminder that there is such a thing as "too far", and though that point where action exceeds that is intentionally vague, that is exactly to allow greater freedom. But it does come with responsibility attached, meaning you should not deliberately try to push the limits of that vagueness. ------------ |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
388
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:54:00 -
[1075] - Quote
Klyith wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:Klyith wrote:I have one, single, very important question for CCP: Did Sohkar, the victim of the harassment, file a petition about being harassed, either recently or back x months ago when it happened?
I know you never answer questions about petitions, but it's kinda important to know if the standard for policing out of game harassment is now "some busybody unrelated to either party can bring a thing to CCP's attention"?
Could I get a spy into PL, hang out on their comms until the next time Grath explodes in rage and berates some other dude, then send that recording to the harassment department? Grath has a well-know prior history of this thing! Can I go and find the Plungerhead pics and send those in to the good manners police? Can I get on comms with DHD and record him saying the N-word a lot and petition? Could someone else record MY trash talking and use it against me?
This isn't a case of wanting to know where the line is so I can edge up to it. I want to know if harassment is defined by the involved people or what RIPARD TEG and a FORUM THREADNAUGHT want to make an issue out of. Did the Wiz report The Mittani? If he didn't then I guess using your logic CCP should of not banned The Mittani. Mittani's action was in a CCP venue where CCP had direct evidence of the problem. Erotica1's harassment was on a separate service that has to be brought to CCP's attention for them to know about it. I only want to know if the standard is now that 3rd-party reporting of out-of-game violations is sufficient for action. (Also he probably had petitioned Mittani before that and been rejected. The whole story behind The Wiz was that he got scammed and then sent a lot of mails to people in GF about killing himself because of it. Mittens and other people had reposted those mails for mockery, which likely led to distributed harassment from lots of people in GSF. Should he have been banned months before the drunken fanfest outrage?)
Like I keep saying; just dont use TS. Then youre golden. No out of game element http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:55:00 -
[1076] - Quote
Klyith wrote:But given that this announcement is not just about Erotica1, I strongly care about whether CCP wrote:clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment can be interpreted without a claim of harassment by a presumptive victim. A denial by that person that they felt harassed makes it difficult!
Doesn't matter, CSM Ripard Teg started a fire in the MMO community and CCP had to pour water on the burn. They probably gave Erotica1 a ban and will allow him to resurface on one of his other accounts unbeknownst to the community as a whole outside his friends.
Ripard got his wish, CCP puts out a fire, and Erotoca1 comes back in a few weeks when the community is back to Grring Goons and Gankers.
|
Ahost Gceo
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
39
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:55:00 -
[1077] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:LOL
You know what all of this says to me?
If you embarrass CCP or get publicity they dont like, they ban you and pretend you did something bad. See: Kugutsumen.
And that's totally their right to do so. While I don't agree with what I know of the punishment handed out, I have only read a few things, so can't form a full opinion on it yet. I just hope that out of this, the sandbox is not affected any further. I also hope that while the character of Erotica 1 has presumably been banned indefinitely, the player behind the character hasn't been. Isn't that kind of missing the point? A character is just a mask, and to be quite honest it doesn't take time invested in trained skills to scam and humiliate someone. If CCP is going to say this is a transgression of the EULA because of what the person did to someone else, they need to permaban that person by IP. I don't discriminate, I hate everyone equally. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries
341
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:55:00 -
[1078] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:I also hope that while the character of Erotica 1 has presumably been banned indefinitely, the player behind the character hasn't been.
I hope this is the case too. He professed an interested in coming back on another account. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Gregor Parud
368
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:56:00 -
[1079] - Quote
I'm enjoying the tears tbh, ingame of course. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
80
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:56:00 -
[1080] - Quote
Klyith wrote:Prince Kobol wrote: But given that this announcement is not just about Erotica1, I strongly care about whether [quote=CCP]clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment
can be interpreted without a claim of harassment by a presumptive victim. A denial by that person that they felt harassed makes it difficult!
Clearly the answer is "yes". What led you to doubt that? W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
391
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:56:00 -
[1081] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Well.
I think the topic is done with.
CCP stayed to their doctrines and within their established powers regarding the intent and purpose of their game and property. They have successfully protected it from an attack this week.
CSM showed their worth in this process and I am left rethinking my attitude about them.
Grief fetishists are sent a message while nobody's ganking/piracy/stealing/scamming playstyle is being changed or threatened (except in the minds of grief fetishists who use said activities as their "vehicle")
Well done. I think CCP and the CSM has earned their pay for the week. I take my leave to now consume fermented hops in mass quantities knowing that the game I care about will survive this, and that in spite of a small minority of people who could use some help, still has the best player base with some of the best people you could ever meet (and shoot - in game of course). Even the players I don't like, who have peeled my ships like bananas, I still hold in high regard.
AH HAHAHAHAHA Considering your signature, your response to this is particularly entertaining.
I know right? Maybe because sigs are just cool flair and have no actual bearing on the person or how they play the game?
Nah that cant be it http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:57:00 -
[1082] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Freedom, and responsibility, are two diametrically opposed elements that nonetheless are intrinsically linked.
There can never be one, without the other.
What this means in practice for EVE and the sandbox, is that the more responsible everyone is for their own conduct, the greater freedom all of us can enjoy, commensurately.
It is bad apples like in this case that force restrictions on the rest of us, because of those people abusing the freedom they had in ways that are ultimately irresponsible.
What Erotica1 was doing, has placed a great deal of non-rule violating conduct and "emergent gameplay" in EVE, at risk. He did that, with the ridiculous extremes he chose to violate the games inherent freedoms with. This is not some martyr of freedom. Its someone who's irresponsible conduct placed all of our freedom at risk.
This supports why it is good that CCPs statement, though clear on the conditions it does stipulate, still keeps a wide margin of interpretation.
Some of you are perceiving that wide margin as a threat, in terms of being afraid you might fall into it accidentally. But you are not realising that that wide margin of interpretation also protects you from exactly that, by allowing CCP room to maneuver and interpret on individual cases, whereas if the rules where absolute and very rigidly defined, youd be SOL.
I wouldn't worry that this statement significantly narrows anyone's freedom in the game. It is however, a reminder that there is such a thing as "too far", and though that point where action exceeds that is intentionally vague, that is exactly to allow greater freedom. But it does come with responsibility attached, meaning you should not deliberately try to push the limits of that vagueness.
+1 HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
391
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:57:00 -
[1083] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:
ok where has anyone said that the racism and threats where allowed.
So the guy that got scammed and freaked the **** out is getting banned too?
No? thats where.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:59:00 -
[1084] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Freedom, and responsibility, are two diametrically opposed elements that nonetheless are intrinsically linked.
There can never be one, without the other.
What this means in practice for EVE and the sandbox, is that the more responsible everyone is for their own conduct, the greater freedom all of us can enjoy, commensurately.
It is bad apples like in this case that force restrictions on the rest of us, because of those people abusing the freedom they had in ways that are ultimately irresponsible.
What Erotica1 was doing, has placed a great deal of non-rule violating conduct and "emergent gameplay" in EVE, at risk. He did that, with the ridiculous extremes he chose to violate the games inherent freedoms with. This is not some martyr of freedom. Its someone who's irresponsible conduct placed all of our freedom at risk.
This supports why it is good that CCPs statement, though clear on the conditions it does stipulate, still keeps a wide margin of interpretation.
Some of you are perceiving that wide margin as a threat, in terms of being afraid you might fall into it accidentally. But you are not realising that that wide margin of interpretation also protects you from exactly that, by allowing CCP room to maneuver and interpret on individual cases, whereas if the rules where absolute and very rigidly defined, youd be SOL.
I wouldn't worry that this statement significantly narrows anyone's freedom in the game. It is however, a reminder that there is such a thing as "too far", and though that point where action exceeds that is intentionally vague, that is exactly to allow greater freedom. But it does come with responsibility attached, meaning you should not deliberately try to push the limits of that vagueness. +1 HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD
+2. Good effect on target.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
391
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 23:59:00 -
[1085] - Quote
Louis Robichaud wrote: 1: You pay EVE online to harvest tears? Interesting.
2: You are aware that real people play the game right? That a flesh and bone human being controls that rifter?
3: Ah, the curse of English as a second language strikes again! Or perhaps it's irony. The number of times I've seen someone criticizing someone's else "intellegence" (sic)... I guess it was bound to happen to me.
1: lol ppl that think my sig actually represents me
2: no; you are pixels. You are a ship. You are content in this game to me. If you get bitchy about what I do to your pixels, thats YOUR fault for forgetting this is first and foremost a game. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1467
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:00:00 -
[1086] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:One Eyed Runner wrote:with all the bitching going on, I can only assume that most of you have not been in the military. In the military rules change hourly depending on you commanding office and how he feels, get use to it and you will rarely be disappointed in life Confirming. I was once a 13F. One Infantry commander doesn't understand why there's Artillerymen in his unit, and thinks we're all Detail Specialists. Life sucks in FiSTerland. He moves on, and a new commander takes over, who thinks his FO's are just plain ducky, and lets us train to our blackened hearts' content. Life is awesome in FiSTerland. (please refrain from crude sexual jokes.... FiSTer stands for "Fire Support Team Member"... yes, I know it sounds funny. Deal with it) In my unit in MWO we have guys who 'say' they were in the military, is it true that when firing a .50 cal belt fed that the way you keep it from overheating is to say/scream "die ************ die" when pulling the trigger? It was a funny thing they said that actually helped me in that game funnily enough
That's actually all crew served weapons, not just Ma Deuce. 3-5 second burst is the way to go. You only go "rock and roll" in movies.... or if you're suffering from a mid-firefight emotional break, and have totally lost your crap.
(Note: that was the way I learned, but since then, Drill Sergeants aren't allowed to say that, anymore, because Congress told us to be nicer and not remind these kids that they've literally signed up to kill people for money) That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1008
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:00:00 -
[1087] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:No out of game element I would extend that.
The key tactical error in this was leaving evidence publicly available to everyone.
So the take away message is:
Don't post evidence of questionable aspects of EvE related behaviour on the internet.
No different to home movies really. If you don't want to be embarrassed and judged by them, don't make them public. '' |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:02:00 -
[1088] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:
ok where has anyone said that the racism and threats where allowed.
So the guy that got scammed and freaked the **** out is getting banned too? No? thats where.
no idea . Its possible he got a temp ban or he received a official warning. Unlike erotica1 he has not made any such elements of his potential punishment known. Still I have not heard anyone specifically state what he did was cool or ok. Most agree his actions were both stupid and wrong at the end of the recording where he flipped. But consider this . He was in a altered mental state thanks to erotica1 who,s aim it was to make him that way . That fact was more than likely taken into account by CCP .
And its upto sohkar to decide whether to make any public statements regarding CCP actions towards him |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
391
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:02:00 -
[1089] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:
Are you actually saying that telling a CCP Employee to die in a ******* fire should not receive a ban?
Are you actually saying that any time someone says "DIAF" on this forum they should be permabaned for real life threats?
Which is more ridiculous to you? Cause that would mean thered be at least one of those in this thread already.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Anomaly One
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
111
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:02:00 -
[1090] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Klyith wrote:But given that this announcement is not just about Erotica1, I strongly care about whether CCP wrote:clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment can be interpreted without a claim of harassment by a presumptive victim. A denial by that person that they felt harassed makes it difficult! Doesn't matter, CSM Ripard Teg started a fire in the MMO community and CCP had to pour water on the burn. They probably gave Erotica1 a ban and will allow him to resurface on one of his other accounts unbeknownst to the community as a whole outside his friends. Ripard got his wish, CCP puts out a fire, and Erotoca1 comes back in a few weeks when the community is back to Grring Goons and Gankers.
the final weird part here is that CCP actually (permanent) banned someone on account of a month old issue raised by riptard's hate propaganda.
Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk |
|
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:02:00 -
[1091] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
That's actually all crew served weapons, not just Ma Deuce. 3-5 second burst is the way to go. You only go "rock and roll" in movies.... or if you're suffering from a mid-firefight emotional break, and have totally lost your crap.
(Note: that was the way I learned, but since then, Drill Sergeants aren't allowed to say that, anymore, because Congress told us to be nicer and not remind these kids that they've literally signed up to kill people for money)
When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic... |
Ahost Gceo
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
39
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:03:00 -
[1092] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Jarod Garamonde wrote:One Eyed Runner wrote:with all the bitching going on, I can only assume that most of you have not been in the military. In the military rules change hourly depending on you commanding office and how he feels, get use to it and you will rarely be disappointed in life Confirming. I was once a 13F. One Infantry commander doesn't understand why there's Artillerymen in his unit, and thinks we're all Detail Specialists. Life sucks in FiSTerland. He moves on, and a new commander takes over, who thinks his FO's are just plain ducky, and lets us train to our blackened hearts' content. Life is awesome in FiSTerland. (please refrain from crude sexual jokes.... FiSTer stands for "Fire Support Team Member"... yes, I know it sounds funny. Deal with it) In my unit in MWO we have guys who 'say' they were in the military, is it true that when firing a .50 cal belt fed that the way you keep it from overheating is to say/scream "die ************ die" when pulling the trigger? It was a funny thing they said that actually helped me in that game funnily enough That's actually all crew served weapons, not just Ma Deuce. 3-5 second burst is the way to go. You only go "rock and roll" in movies.... or if you're suffering from a mid-firefight emotional break, and have totally lost your crap. (Note: that was the way I learned, but since then, Drill Sergeants aren't allowed to say that, anymore, because Congress told us to be nicer and not remind these kids that they've literally signed up to kill people for money) Marines still say it. Will confirm. I don't discriminate, I hate everyone equally. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
391
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:04:00 -
[1093] - Quote
Unless someone says to that dev "I hope you (insert real dev name here), who lives at (insert real address here) dies in a fire that I will set at (said address)", then YES. They should get away with it. That acronym gets tossed around on this forum so often its become meaningless. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
stoicfaux
4314
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:05:00 -
[1094] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:stoicfaux wrote:To the people who are still "rules lawyering" over this. Rules lawyering does not trump common sense, basic human morals and/or the Game Master.
/dating_myself Pretty much this. Ingame "funny stuff" against a pilot is what the game is about but people should have the common sense to KEEP it in game and not extend that to RL people. So in your mind, asking for a song for ransom is wrong then, right? As that's out of game? Legit question. Okay, I'll give you the benefit of doubt.
Depends on the song. Which of these songs would CCP feel compelled to act over: Ice Ice Baby or the K K K anthem?
Here are some questions to ask yourself if you're planning on hazing, running an extreme game show, or otherwise tempted to engage in "edgy" entertainment: * will it show up on mainstream news? * will some legislator use it to ban/limit/censor online games? * are you in it for the isk, the glory, or just to see a human being suffer? * Are you planning on distributing the humiliation on the internet? * Do you understand that nothing is ever forgotten on the internet? * do you know what to do or otherwise have a plan for when things go wrong? That is, know when to stop the recording and knowing when not to publish the show? * can you afford the fallout? do you have liability insurance? Would your lawyer use the words "I strongly advise you to reconsider"? * will your boss/company fire you if they found out? will future employers/schools decline your application without comment? * will your family disown you? will your family feel the need to apologize on your behalf? Will your family receive death threats for your behavior? Will your mother apologize for not raising your better? * will the goons think you've gone to far?
Just google "hazing" for real world examples where things have gone from "boys being boys" to banned with or without jail time.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:06:00 -
[1095] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Okay... I'll take the "Ssieth has liked your post" notification to mean "yes". Great... moving right along then: It's **Definition Time** XD http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/harassSubject to aggressive pressure or intimidationSo, by that definition, anyone in this game who subjects anyone else in this game to "aggressive pressure or intimidation" is skirting the harassment portions of the EULA. Now name something you can do in game, in an adversarial context, that doesn't fit that definition. Go on. I'll wait.
Ganking! oh wait, no, um um....
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
89
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:06:00 -
[1096] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Freedom, and responsibility, are two diametrically opposed elements that nonetheless are intrinsically linked.
There can never be one, without the other.
What this means in practice for EVE and the sandbox, is that the more responsible everyone is for their own conduct, the greater freedom all of us can enjoy, commensurately.
It is bad apples like in this case that force restrictions on the rest of us, because of those people abusing the freedom they had in ways that are ultimately irresponsible.
What Erotica1 was doing, has placed a great deal of non-rule violating conduct and "emergent gameplay" in EVE, at risk. He did that, with the ridiculous extremes he chose to violate the games inherent freedoms with. This is not some martyr of freedom. Its someone who's irresponsible conduct placed all of our freedom at risk.
This supports why it is good that CCPs statement, though clear on the conditions it does stipulate, still keeps a wide margin of interpretation.
Some of you are perceiving that wide margin as a threat, in terms of being afraid you might fall into it accidentally. But you are not realising that that wide margin of interpretation also protects you from exactly that, by allowing CCP room to maneuver and interpret on individual cases, whereas if the rules where absolute and very rigidly defined, youd be SOL.
I wouldn't worry that this statement significantly narrows anyone's freedom in the game. It is however, a reminder that there is such a thing as "too far", and though that point where action exceeds that is intentionally vague, that is exactly to allow greater freedom. But it does come with responsibility attached, meaning you should not deliberately try to push the limits of that vagueness.
Why is it you need so many effing words to talk crap? I have been reading two threadnaughts and your posts stick out like a dozen sore fingers. It is truly unusual to see a person talk so much and be consistently wrong about matters. Go away!
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:07:00 -
[1097] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:H aVo K wrote:H aVo K wrote:Ssieth wrote: CCP aren't changing any rules just restating them and urging people to be cautious when sailing close to the edges of the EULA/ToS.
Can I summarize your posts thusly: "If you're a player who chooses to skirt the harassment portions of the EULA, you risk getting banned, and that is completely your fault for choosing to play in such a manner" That distill it all down? Okay... I'll take the "Ssieth has liked your post" notification to mean "yes". Great... moving right along then: It's **Definition Time** XD http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/harassSubject to aggressive pressure or intimidationSo, by that definition, anyone in this game who subjects anyone else in this game to "aggressive pressure or intimidation" is skirting the harassment portions of the EULA. Now name something you can do in game, in an adversarial context, that doesn't fit that definition. Go on. I'll wait. You keep on missing the part where a rule doesn't have to be broken for CCP to act. Suck it up.
Ah, the old "you can be banned for anything, including nothing" defense. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
52
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:08:00 -
[1098] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Unless someone says to that dev "I hope you (insert real dev name here), who lives at (insert real address here) dies in a fire that I will set at (said address)", then YES. They should get away with it. That acronym gets tossed around on this forum so often its become meaningless. Prince Kobol wrote:
I am pretty damn sure that you will struggle to find anybody who will say that telling a CCP Employee to DIAF should not receive a ban
Id hope it would be more a struggle to find someone that takes forum PVP that seriously.
basically as long as someone can commit a crime against an anonymous individual its fine. If the world thought that way it would be a dark place. As we are all anonymous towards someone in this . Just because you do not know the real person, identity does not make the crime any less illegal or wrong . Dependent on circumstance and type of crime |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:08:00 -
[1099] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Well folks thats enough for me, pretty sure this thread has reached the end. Think it was Antisocial Malkavian who finally broke me by saying that that being banned for telling a CCP employee to DIAF is wrong and that is proof of GM's showing bias. Wow this community really does attract some strange people. I think Lucas will be very happy with you for helping him show GM Bias
Wooo I broke him... wait does that mean IM gonna get banned? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Salvos Rhoska
877
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:08:00 -
[1100] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:The key tactical error in this was leaving evidence publicly available to everyone.
One of many.
After reviewing the full disclosure on what the Bonus Room entails, I can't get over how incredibly stupid its design was.
As much as I respect and admire that these people where able to get others to voluntarily transfer all their assets over, the Bonus Room itself is such a sub-par joke of goofiness and contrived crap, that it is imo unworthy of the standards of EVE.
Frankly, it was an insult and a travesty to the scamming profession. ------------ |
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1008
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:09:00 -
[1101] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Okay... I'll take the "Ssieth has liked your post" notification to mean "yes". Great... moving right along then: It's **Definition Time** XD http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/harassSubject to aggressive pressure or intimidationSo, by that definition, anyone in this game who subjects anyone else in this game to "aggressive pressure or intimidation" is skirting the harassment portions of the EULA. Now name something you can do in game, in an adversarial context, that doesn't fit that definition. Go on. I'll wait.
CCP have their own policy on harassment.
The Oxford English Dictionary definition, or any other definition outside CCPs is irrelevant in terms of CCPs judgement, surely?
'' |
Ecrir Twy'Lar
Federation Navy 3rd Fleet
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:09:00 -
[1102] - Quote
PinkPanter wrote:So move along pretty much.
Ok.
Watch my accounts.
Later.
*** not a rage quit. Just disagreement and something I do not want to affiliate myself with.
You realize that if you are a E1 fan, most here would say "Don't let the door hit you in the @ss on your way out." |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:09:00 -
[1103] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:stoicfaux wrote:To the people who are still "rules lawyering" over this. Rules lawyering does not trump common sense, basic human morals and/or the Game Master.
/dating_myself
Pretty much this. Ingame "funny stuff" against a pilot is what the game is about but people should have the common sense to KEEP it in game and not extend that to RL people.
So if they did like I keep saying and kept it off TS theyd be fine?
Mind you, Im a few pages back atm so itll be a while before I catch up xD http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2900
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:10:00 -
[1104] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Okay, I'll give you the benefit of doubt.
Depends on the song. Which of these songs would CCP feel compelled to act over: Ice Ice Baby or the K K K anthem? Fair point, but then which is the offending part, asking for the song or singing it?
stoicfaux wrote:Here are some questions to ask yourself if you're planning on hazing, running an extreme game show, or otherwise tempted to engage in "edgy" entertainment: * will it show up on mainstream news? * will some legislator use it to ban/limit/censor online games? * are you in it for the isk, the glory, or just to see a human being suffer? * Are you planning on distributing the humiliation on the internet? * Do you understand that nothing is ever forgotten on the internet? * do you know what to do or otherwise have a plan for when things go wrong? That is, know when to stop the recording and knowing when not to publish the show? * can you afford the fallout? do you have liability insurance? Would your lawyer use the words "I strongly advise you to reconsider"? * will your boss/company fire you if they found out? will future employers/schools decline your application without comment? * will your family disown you? will your family feel the need to apologize on your behalf? Will your family receive death threats for your behavior? Will your mother apologize for not raising your better? * will the goons think you've gone to far?
Just google "hazing" for real world examples where things have gone from "boys being boys" to banned with or without jail time. This doesn't really help much in regard to the situation. That seems more like what CCP should use to then relay the rules they deem fit to us. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:12:00 -
[1105] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Funny thing related to this, from my perspective, is that EVE's reputation as a den of antisocial evil monsters, is actually remarkably misplaced, and a result of confusing it with the levity in aggressing other players that are possible in it.
I dunno; I think it comes from things that get you banned outright in other games are fair play here (IE the heart of the subject of this thread) and if you complain to the GMs you tend to get "welcome to EVE" as a reply. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:14:00 -
[1106] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:Danalee wrote:I'll say something silly: No rules have been broken and I have the EULA, the TOS and international law to back it up. D. Yes, that's silly. Because it's obviously wrong. And I have a CCP decision to back it up. What decision was that? They dont seem to have made any changes. And yeah, cause CCP are infallible too, right? Decision didn't go your way. Rage and tears flow. CCP made their decision. Their brand, their service, their right to interpret their rules however they see fit. Get over it. You are free to leave if this is not acceptable. Freedom to leave...now that *is* real freedom.
The EXACT SAME freedom the guy getting scammed had the ENTIRE TIME he was getting scammed.
That freedom you mean? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1008
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:14:00 -
[1107] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I can't get over how incredibly stupid its design was. Good for you, but I have no interest in what you think.
Finding joy in seeing someone physically assault anyone else is just as incredibly stupid.
'' |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:15:00 -
[1108] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I must have missed the part where HE HIMSELF could have stopped that treatment AT ANY TIME and yet didnt.
DC from game, DC from TS, chalk it up to being stupid and start over. Why is this not HIS fault at all for not doing this? Why are we absolving the poor dumb guy of all responsibility for doing this? Is this the new EVE?
Cuts both ways. Erotica 1 and his friends could've stopped it, too, and since they held the power in that situation, it would've been easier for them.
On the stream last night, Sohkar acknowledged that he could've left and that it was a mistake that he didn't.
Has anyone heard Erotica and his Escrow Agents do the same?
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2902
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:16:00 -
[1109] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:CCP have their own policy on harassment.
The Oxford English Dictionary definition, or any other definition outside CCPs is irrelevant in terms of CCPs judgement, surely? Exactly, which is why they need to write their own definition so we know what one to use. It's clear the one they've had for a while is not the same, since Erotica 1 is now banned and previously wasn't, despite not changing his MO.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
820
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:16:00 -
[1110] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Klyith wrote:But given that this announcement is not just about Erotica1, I strongly care about whether CCP wrote:clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment can be interpreted without a claim of harassment by a presumptive victim. A denial by that person that they felt harassed makes it difficult! Doesn't matter, CSM Ripard Teg started a fire in the MMO community and CCP had to pour water on the burn. They probably gave Erotica1 a ban and will allow him to resurface on one of his other accounts unbeknownst to the community as a whole outside his friends. Ripard got his wish, CCP puts out a fire, and Erotoca1 comes back in a few weeks when the community is back to Grring Goons and Gankers. the final weird part here is that CCP actually (permanent) banned someone on account of a month old issue raised by riptard's hate propaganda.
Eh assuming he is permabanned. None of us can know for sure, the only ones who know are CCP and Erotica1 heck Erotica1 may not even know. CCP could simply have a 2 week ban, a 1 month ban, a 3 month ban. Heck could even just be a 24 hour ban.
But this is certainly due to Ripard Teg there is no doubt about that. Pretty shameful imho. He must have lost a bonus round at some point. He seemed to have a great deal of understanding of it having never actually talked to anyone who participated in a Bonus Round.
I wonder how many assets Erotica1 got of him, and what songs he had to sing while he gave them away willingly. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:17:00 -
[1111] - Quote
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
(Note: that was the way I learned, but since then, Drill Sergeants aren't allowed to say that, anymore, because Congress told us to be nicer and not remind these kids that they've literally signed up to kill people for money)
Honestly, this bears on this thread quite heavily imo lol
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Salvos Rhoska
877
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:18:00 -
[1112] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:It's clear the one they've had for a while is not the same, since Erotica 1 is now banned and previously wasn't, despite not changing his MO.
It clearly is the same, or they would have announced to have changed it.
You are speculating on things you do not know, namely how long CCP has (or has not been) investigating and following Erotica1's activities + time for deliberation on what action to take.
You are implying things you have no evidence for. ------------ |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:19:00 -
[1113] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:No out of game element I would extend that. The key tactical error in this was leaving evidence publicly available to everyone. So the take away message is: Don't post evidence of questionable aspects of EvE related behaviour on the internet.No different to home movies really. If you don't want to be embarrassed and judged by them, don't make them public.
Ya, like I said before that actually, that MalCSMguy said "yeah do that an see what happens".
Ill go it one further then. You need to screw them up in the head so bad that they wont tattle on you AND dont use out of game coms to do it. CCP isnt making the game better for these morons, its making it so much worse lol
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4016
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:19:00 -
[1114] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:CCP have their own policy on harassment.
The Oxford English Dictionary definition, or any other definition outside CCPs is irrelevant in terms of CCPs judgement, surely? Exactly, which is why they need to write their own definition so we know what one to use. It's clear the one they've had for a while is not the same, since Erotica 1 is now banned and previously wasn't, despite not changing his MO.
And also despite a month's time passing between the event, and the determination to ban for it. It was out in the open for a long time.
Am I going to find myself banned for some action I've forgotten about? Maybe when I made someone sing for their T2 exploration frigate out in nullsec last year? Someone unrelated to the event is going to decide that I'm evilbadfeelshatetorturebanned as a result? Or is it that only a CSM member can get someone banned like that? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4016
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:20:00 -
[1115] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's clear the one they've had for a while is not the same, since Erotica 1 is now banned and previously wasn't, despite not changing his MO.
It clearly is the same, or they would have announced to have changed it.
They said that about the New Terms of Service fiasco, too. Which was a lie. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:21:00 -
[1116] - Quote
olan2005 wrote: But consider this . He was in a altered mental state thanks to erotica1 who,s aim it was to make him that way .
So will a high sec missioner/incursioner in his pimped out faction ship. So ganking them is off limits right? Cause theyll get mad and rage etc?
And because its mean
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:23:00 -
[1117] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Unless someone says to that dev "I hope you (insert real dev name here), who lives at (insert real address here) dies in a fire that I will set at (said address)", then YES. They should get away with it. That acronym gets tossed around on this forum so often its become meaningless. Prince Kobol wrote:
I am pretty damn sure that you will struggle to find anybody who will say that telling a CCP Employee to DIAF should not receive a ban
Id hope it would be more a struggle to find someone that takes forum PVP that seriously. basically as long as someone can commit a crime against an anonymous individual its fine. If the world thought that way it would be a dark place. As we are all anonymous towards someone in this . Just because you do not know the real person, identity does not make the crime any less illegal or wrong . Dependent on circumstance and type of crime
are you actually pretending that it makes sense to you that saying diaf on a forum or in a game is the same as making the threat to their face in real life? Oh god, this guy just gave me an emotional response. Can I get him banned too please?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
394
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:25:00 -
[1118] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I must have missed the part where HE HIMSELF could have stopped that treatment AT ANY TIME and yet didnt.
DC from game, DC from TS, chalk it up to being stupid and start over. Why is this not HIS fault at all for not doing this? Why are we absolving the poor dumb guy of all responsibility for doing this? Is this the new EVE?
Cuts both ways. Erotica 1 and his friends could've stopped it, too, and since they held the power in that situation, it would've been easier for them. On the stream last night, Sohkar acknowledged that he could've left and that it was a mistake that he didn't. Has anyone heard Erotica and his Escrow Agents do the same?
Right, then everyone should get punished IMO http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
54
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:26:00 -
[1119] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Freedom, and responsibility, are two diametrically opposed elements that nonetheless are intrinsically linked.
There can never be one, without the other.
What this means in practice for EVE and the sandbox, is that the more responsible everyone is for their own conduct, the greater freedom all of us can enjoy, commensurately.
It is bad apples like in this case that force restrictions on the rest of us, because of those people abusing the freedom they had in ways that are ultimately irresponsible.
What Erotica1 was doing, has placed a great deal of non-rule violating conduct and "emergent gameplay" in EVE, at risk. He did that, with the ridiculous extremes he chose to violate the games inherent freedoms with. This is not some martyr of freedom. Its someone who's irresponsible conduct placed all of our freedom at risk.
This supports why it is good that CCPs statement, though clear on the conditions it does stipulate, still keeps a wide margin of interpretation.
Some of you are perceiving that wide margin as a threat, in terms of being afraid you might fall into it accidentally. But you are not realising that that wide margin of interpretation also protects you from exactly that, by allowing CCP room to maneuver and interpret on individual cases, whereas if the rules where absolute and very rigidly defined, youd be SOL.
I wouldn't worry that this statement significantly narrows anyone's freedom in the game. It is however, a reminder that there is such a thing as "too far", and though that point where action exceeds that is intentionally vague, that is exactly to allow greater freedom. But it does come with responsibility attached, meaning you should not deliberately try to push the limits of that vagueness. Why is it you need so many effing words to talk crap? I have been reading two threadnaughts and your posts stick out like a dozen sore fingers. It is truly unusual to see a person talk so much and be consistently wrong about matters. Go away!
let me make it simple for you. All things in moderation. By not setting iron clad rules CCP have protected the metagame and your right to extort , or blow stuff up IN-game . But again all things in moderation. Just scam them , steal from them. spy on them. hold there ship to ransom in-game in exchange for isk . Just dont torment people for hours on end , for the sole purpose of breaking them .
|
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:26:00 -
[1120] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:But this is certainly due to Ripard Teg there is no doubt about that. Pretty shameful imho. He must have lost a bonus round at some point. He seemed to have a great deal of understanding of it having never actually talked to anyone who participated in a Bonus Round.
I wonder how many assets Erotica1 got of him, and what songs he had to sing while he gave them away willingly.
Is it so hard to acknowledge that more than a few people have listened to those audios themselves and come to the same conclusion that the Bonus Round stuff was crap and needed to stop?
If you've read even a handful of Ripard's blog posts, you already know he's extremely unlikely to have ever fallen for a Jita ISK scam. That you're saying so is just another attempt to discount how much of the community has come out against what Erotica and his friends have been doing. |
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
83
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:26:00 -
[1121] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Am I going to find myself banned for some action I've forgotten about? Maybe when I made someone sing for their T2 exploration frigate out in nullsec last year? Someone unrelated to the event is going to decide that I'm evilbadfeelshatetorturebanned as a result? Or is it that only a CSM member can get someone banned like that?
Can you be held to the ToS/EULA despite having forgotten that you breached them? Yes, clearly. A poor memory is very rarely much of a defence for anything.
Going to an extreme real world example (as it's often easiest to demonstrate a general principal at extremis): if you killed someone 20 years ago and burried the bodies, you could ewell expect to be hauled to jail when they dug them up regardless of a hell of a lot of time passing.
You can't expect chronological distance to be a defence for breaching the rules. The simple rule of thimb should be to stay clear of EULA/ToS violation if you want to stay clear of trouble and don't rely on burrying the evidence long enough that folks thing it's a past transgression not worth digging up. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
396
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:29:00 -
[1122] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Bael Malefic wrote:
Decision didn't go your way. Rage and tears flow.
CCP made their decision. Their brand, their service, their right to interpret their rules however they see fit.
Get over it. You are free to leave if this is not acceptable.
Freedom to leave...now that *is* real freedom.
The EXACT SAME freedom the guy getting scammed had the ENTIRE TIME he was getting scammed.That freedom you mean?
This point bears repeating to all those trying this slant on the argument by the way. Oh and before you scream about the decision not going my way, IM a highsec miner/carebear. IM defending their right to be able to kill/scam me lol
olan2005 wrote:
let me make it simple for you. All things in moderation. By not setting iron clad rules CCP have protected the metagame and your right to extort , or blow stuff up IN-game . But again all things in moderation. Just scam them , steal from them. spy on them. hold there ship to ransom in-game in exchange for isk . Just dont torment people for hours on end , for the sole purpose of breaking them .
I said that pages ago. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
54
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:29:00 -
[1123] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Unless someone says to that dev "I hope you (insert real dev name here), who lives at (insert real address here) dies in a fire that I will set at (said address)", then YES. They should get away with it. That acronym gets tossed around on this forum so often its become meaningless. Prince Kobol wrote:
I am pretty damn sure that you will struggle to find anybody who will say that telling a CCP Employee to DIAF should not receive a ban
Id hope it would be more a struggle to find someone that takes forum PVP that seriously. basically as long as someone can commit a crime against an anonymous individual its fine. If the world thought that way it would be a dark place. As we are all anonymous towards someone in this . Just because you do not know the real person, identity does not make the crime any less illegal or wrong . Dependent on circumstance and type of crime are you actually pretending that it makes sense to you that saying diaf on a forum or in a game is the same as making the threat to their face in real life? Oh god, this guy just gave me an emotional response. Can I get him banned too please?
no its not . But doing that over and over and over etc , to the same individual non-stop, out of a vindictive (narcissistic) need goes overboard and would and should be dealt with |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:29:00 -
[1124] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
The EXACT SAME freedom the guy getting scammed had the ENTIRE TIME he was getting scammed.
That freedom you mean?
Yes. Precisely. But keep beating the dead horse of your lost cause.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
396
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:32:00 -
[1125] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:
no its not . But doing that over and over and over etc , to the same individual non-stop, out of a vindictive (narcissistic) need goes overboard and would and should be dealt with
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the miner?
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the missioner?
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the incursion runner?
Because as Malcanis said, they wont have the protection of this decision and hinted to dire reprecussions if they try
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
83
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:32:00 -
[1126] - Quote
olan2005 wrote: let me make it simple for you. All things in moderation. By not setting iron clad rules CCP have protected the metagame and your right to extort , or blow stuff up IN-game . But again all things in moderation. Just scam them , steal from them. spy on them. hold there ship to ransom in-game in exchange for isk . Just dont torment people for hours on end , for the sole purpose of breaking them .
Olan makes a saliant point here. For those who keep pushing for hard and fast rules - make sure you know what it is you're asking for and what the likely consequences are likely to be. If you push CCP into laying down a line then expect it to be very far from where you would want it be.
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4020
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:32:00 -
[1127] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Am I going to find myself banned for some action I've forgotten about? Maybe when I made someone sing for their T2 exploration frigate out in nullsec last year? Someone unrelated to the event is going to decide that I'm evilbadfeelshatetorturebanned as a result? Or is it that only a CSM member can get someone banned like that?
Can you be held to the ToS/EULA despite having forgotten that you breached them? Yes, clearly. A poor memory is very rarely much of a defence for anything. Going to an extreme real world example (as it's often easiest to demonstrate a general principal at extremis): if you killed someone 20 years ago and burried the bodies, you could ewell expect to be hauled to jail when they dug them up regardless of a hell of a lot of time passing. You can't expect chronological distance to be a defence for breaching the rules. The simple rule of thimb should be to stay clear of EULA/ToS violation if you want to stay clear of trouble and don't rely on burrying the evidence long enough that folks thing it's a past transgression not worth digging up.
But none of those things were against the rules.
And apparently they still aren't, unless I get on Ripard Teg's bad side. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
824
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:33:00 -
[1128] - Quote
The fact is Ripard Teg stepped out of line by instigating and encouraging a "witch hunt". He wrote a blog story in which he publicly harassed an individual of this community, and shared that story with the broader MMO community. Not once did he as Sohkar for his opinion on his experience, nor did he ask other past Bonus Room clients, this was solely his own vendetta against a player of this community who had without CCP involvement of any kind done this same thing to hundreds of people for nearly a year.
If this was truly a case of harassment and stepping outside the lines, then where was the ban, or warning about such things a A month ago when this particular incident was first shared with the community, 3 months ago, 6 months ago, a year ago? Yet I am sure Ripard Teg is free of his involvement in this, he is freed of his harassment of both Erotica1 and Sohkar, whom was ejected from his corporation not because of "The Bonus Room" but because Ripard Teg put him into the public spotlight.
Frankly I think the most disgusting part of this is that a representative of this community took it upon himself to be judge jury and executioner, when that should solely lie with CCP, and only be implemented when a member of the community asks them to investigate an issue.
By all rights this scenario should have been between the Client, CCP and Erotica1, not Ripard Teg, not his Jesters Trek Blog, not the MMO community, and certainly not the numerous White Knights who mounted their horses and marched off to a 400 page threadnaught calling for heads to roll.
If anyone should be banned for this it should be Ripard Teg, and his clear button pushing that has impacted Sohkar far more than anything Erotica1 did, the game moving forward for him is now forever changed, because Ripard wanted to settle a personal vendetta. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2903
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:33:00 -
[1129] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's clear the one they've had for a while is not the same, since Erotica 1 is now banned and previously wasn't, despite not changing his MO.
It clearly is the same, or they would have announced to have changed it. You are speculating on things you do not know, namely how long CCP has (or has not been) investigating and following Erotica1's activities + time for deliberation on what action to take. You are implying things you have no evidence for. How is there no evidence? Erotica 1 has been doing and publishing these for a long time, go ahead, look it up. Therefore if they are even remotely competent and they have been enforcing their rules all along, nothing would have happened. Instead there's a sudden announcement and banning. Clearly something must have changed. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4020
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:33:00 -
[1130] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:
no its not . But doing that over and over and over etc , to the same individual non-stop, out of a vindictive (narcissistic) need goes overboard and would and should be dealt with
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the miner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the missioner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the incursion runner? Because as Malcanis said, they wont have the protection of this decision and hinted to dire reprecussions if they try
Which is something I would LOVE to have in writing somewhere. If they're actually going to crack down on false flag petitioning, I have a few choice candidates on mind from my trophy rack of hatemail. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
|
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
54
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:34:00 -
[1131] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:
no its not . But doing that over and over and over etc , to the same individual non-stop, out of a vindictive (narcissistic) need goes overboard and would and should be dealt with
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the miner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the missioner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the incursion runner? Because as Malcanis said, they wont have the protection of this decision and hinted to dire reprecussions if they try
When you go out of your way to hunt down the SAME INDIVIDUAL AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR theoretically SAY WEEKS OR MONTHS ON END.
Does anyone else get the point of all things in moderation yet |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
396
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:34:00 -
[1132] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:The fact is Ripard Teg stepped out of line by instigating and encouraging a "witch hunt". He wrote a blog story in which he publicly harassed an individual of this community, and shared that story with the broader MMO community. Not once did he ask Sohkar for his opinion on his experience, nor did he ask other past Bonus Room clients, this was solely his own vendetta against a player of this community who had without CCP involvement of any kind done this same thing to hundreds of people for nearly a year.
If this was truly a case of harassment and stepping outside the lines, then where was the ban, or warning about such things a A month ago when this particular incident was first shared with the community, 3 months ago, 6 months ago, a year ago? Yet I am sure Ripard Teg is free of his involvement in this, he is freed of his harassment of both Erotica1 and Sohkar, whom was ejected from his corporation not because of "The Bonus Room" but because Ripard Teg put him into the public spotlight.
Frankly I think the most disgusting part of this is that a representative of this community took it upon himself to be judge jury and executioner, when that should solely lie with CCP, and only be implemented when a member of the community asks them to investigate an issue.
By all rights this scenario should have been between the Client, CCP and Erotica1, not Ripard Teg, not his Jesters Trek Blog, not the MMO community, and certainly not the numerous White Knights who mounted their horses and marched off to a 400 page threadnaught calling for heads to roll.
If anyone should be banned for this it should be Ripard Teg, and his clear button pushing that has impacted Sohkar far more than anything Erotica1 did, the game moving forward for him is now forever changed, because Ripard wanted to settle a personal vendetta.
So shouldnt this guy get banned? He's torturing Erotica by denying him the ability to play http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
83
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:35:00 -
[1133] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:
no its not . But doing that over and over and over etc , to the same individual non-stop, out of a vindictive (narcissistic) need goes overboard and would and should be dealt with
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the miner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the missioner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the incursion runner?
It doesn't, in all of the above cases. As has been stated repeatedly, ad nausam on this thread by Malkanis and others. I'm not sure whether you've not read their posts,a re trying to make a slipper-slope argument or what... W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
396
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:35:00 -
[1134] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's clear the one they've had for a while is not the same, since Erotica 1 is now banned and previously wasn't, despite not changing his MO.
It clearly is the same, or they would have announced to have changed it. You are speculating on things you do not know, namely how long CCP has (or has not been) investigating and following Erotica1's activities + time for deliberation on what action to take. You are implying things you have no evidence for. How is there no evidence? Erotica 1 has been doing and publishing these for a long time, go ahead, look it up. Therefore if they are even remotely competent and they have been enforcing their rules all along, nothing would have happened. Instead there's a sudden announcement and banning. Clearly something must have changed.
Ya, Id like to see that change in writing, not in "probablies"
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
70
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:36:00 -
[1135] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:
The game he was playing, I thought Eve was about shooting space pixels, I didn't realise it also involved being humiliated and then having a recording of it all placed on the internet.
Must of missed that part on the advertising, need to ask CCP to make a promo vid.
We've already gone over this, he was scammed and then given the run around for a little in TS, it's no worse than a trash talk in local. Plenty of others went through the same thing and didn't react like a lunatic because they understood being scammed and wound up is a possibility.
so 2 hours of what was then a publicly published humiliation is "the run around for a little in TS" ???
what transpired today is a direct result of a group of people not knowing the difference between a game and taking things too far out of a game. The game ended once the scam was complete. everything else that followed was simply for some depraved people to get a spot of mental masturbatory pleasure. YOu can cut a shitsandwich 5 ways and the filling is still going to be ****. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:36:00 -
[1136] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:The fact is Ripard Teg stepped out of line by instigating and encouraging a "witch hunt". He wrote a blog story in which he publicly harassed an individual of this community, and shared that story with the broader MMO community. Not once did he ask Sohkar for his opinion on his experience, nor did he ask other past Bonus Room clients, this was solely his own vendetta against a player of this community who had without CCP involvement of any kind done this same thing to hundreds of people for nearly a year.
If this was truly a case of harassment and stepping outside the lines, then where was the ban, or warning about such things a A month ago when this particular incident was first shared with the community, 3 months ago, 6 months ago, a year ago? Yet I am sure Ripard Teg is free of his involvement in this, he is freed of his harassment of both Erotica1 and Sohkar, whom was ejected from his corporation not because of "The Bonus Room" but because Ripard Teg put him into the public spotlight.
Frankly I think the most disgusting part of this is that a representative of this community took it upon himself to be judge jury and executioner, when that should solely lie with CCP, and only be implemented when a member of the community asks them to investigate an issue.
By all rights this scenario should have been between the Client, CCP and Erotica1, not Ripard Teg, not his Jesters Trek Blog, not the MMO community, and certainly not the numerous White Knights who mounted their horses and marched off to a 400 page threadnaught calling for heads to roll.
If anyone should be banned for this it should be Ripard Teg, and his clear button pushing that has impacted Sohkar far more than anything Erotica1 did, the game moving forward for him is now forever changed, because Ripard wanted to settle a personal vendetta. So shouldnt this guy get banned? He's torturing Erotica by denying him the ability to play
ITS CCP who was the ultimate judge and executioner. Riptard simply brought it to everyone attention . And people reacted based on their views and opinions of acceptable behavior. CCP did the same
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
397
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:37:00 -
[1137] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:
no its not . But doing that over and over and over etc , to the same individual non-stop, out of a vindictive (narcissistic) need goes overboard and would and should be dealt with
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the miner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the missioner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the incursion runner? Because as Malcanis said, they wont have the protection of this decision and hinted to dire reprecussions if they try When you go out of your way to hunt down the SAME INDIVIDUAL AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR theoretically SAY WEEKS OR MONTHS ON END. Does anyone else get the point of all things in moderation yet
So wheres the line?
How many ganks is too many? Define that moderation.
Thats what has been being asked for something like THIRTY ******* PAGES. How hard is this?!
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4022
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:38:00 -
[1138] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:
no its not . But doing that over and over and over etc , to the same individual non-stop, out of a vindictive (narcissistic) need goes overboard and would and should be dealt with
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the miner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the missioner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the incursion runner? It doesn't, in all of the above cases. As has been stated repeatedly, ad nausam on this thread by Malkanis and others. I'm not sure whether you've not read their posts,a re trying to make a slipper-slope argument or what...
And, as I mentioned, when I am dealing with the GM team that has been on record telling me "You can be banned for impersonating yourself", it would be nice to have things like spelled out in writing and official, instead of just "trust me". Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
397
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:38:00 -
[1139] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:
no its not . But doing that over and over and over etc , to the same individual non-stop, out of a vindictive (narcissistic) need goes overboard and would and should be dealt with
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the miner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the missioner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the incursion runner? It doesn't, in all of the above cases. As has been stated repeatedly, ad nauseam on this thread by Malkanis and others. I'm not sure whether you've not read their posts,a re trying to make a slippery-slope argument or what...
Yoiu an Olan might wanna get together, youre conflicting with each other now. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
500
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:39:00 -
[1140] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:The fact is Ripard Teg stepped out of line by instigating and encouraging a "witch hunt". He wrote a blog story in which he publicly harassed an individual of this community, and shared that story with the broader MMO community. Not once did he ask Sohkar for his opinion on his experience, nor did he ask other past Bonus Room clients, this was solely his own vendetta against a player of this community who had without CCP involvement of any kind done this same thing to hundreds of people for nearly a year.
If this was truly a case of harassment and stepping outside the lines, then where was the ban, or warning about such things a A month ago when this particular incident was first shared with the community, 3 months ago, 6 months ago, a year ago? Yet I am sure Ripard Teg is free of his involvement in this, he is freed of his harassment of both Erotica1 and Sohkar, whom was ejected from his corporation not because of "The Bonus Room" but because Ripard Teg put him into the public spotlight.
Frankly I think the most disgusting part of this is that a representative of this community took it upon himself to be judge jury and executioner, when that should solely lie with CCP, and only be implemented when a member of the community asks them to investigate an issue.
By all rights this scenario should have been between the Client, CCP and Erotica1, not Ripard Teg, not his Jesters Trek Blog, not the MMO community, and certainly not the numerous White Knights who mounted their horses and marched off to a 400 page threadnaught calling for heads to roll.
If anyone should be banned for this it should be Ripard Teg, and his clear button pushing that has impacted Sohkar far more than anything Erotica1 did, the game moving forward for him is now forever changed, because Ripard wanted to settle a personal vendetta. So shouldnt this guy get banned? He's torturing Erotica by denying him the ability to play
Only if you leave out the part where the rest of CSM and CCP agreed to take action on this issue, and only if you ignore the fact that Ripard by himself can't issue bans to the game. And only if by torturing Erotica you mean telling the truth about him. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
397
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:39:00 -
[1141] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:The fact is Ripard Teg stepped out of line by instigating and encouraging a "witch hunt". He wrote a blog story in which he publicly harassed an individual of this community, and shared that story with the broader MMO community. Not once did he ask Sohkar for his opinion on his experience, nor did he ask other past Bonus Room clients, this was solely his own vendetta against a player of this community who had without CCP involvement of any kind done this same thing to hundreds of people for nearly a year.
If this was truly a case of harassment and stepping outside the lines, then where was the ban, or warning about such things a A month ago when this particular incident was first shared with the community, 3 months ago, 6 months ago, a year ago? Yet I am sure Ripard Teg is free of his involvement in this, he is freed of his harassment of both Erotica1 and Sohkar, whom was ejected from his corporation not because of "The Bonus Room" but because Ripard Teg put him into the public spotlight.
Frankly I think the most disgusting part of this is that a representative of this community took it upon himself to be judge jury and executioner, when that should solely lie with CCP, and only be implemented when a member of the community asks them to investigate an issue.
By all rights this scenario should have been between the Client, CCP and Erotica1, not Ripard Teg, not his Jesters Trek Blog, not the MMO community, and certainly not the numerous White Knights who mounted their horses and marched off to a 400 page threadnaught calling for heads to roll.
If anyone should be banned for this it should be Ripard Teg, and his clear button pushing that has impacted Sohkar far more than anything Erotica1 did, the game moving forward for him is now forever changed, because Ripard wanted to settle a personal vendetta. So shouldnt this guy get banned? He's torturing Erotica by denying him the ability to play ITS CCP who was the ultimate judge and executioner. Riptard simply brought it to everyone attention . And people reacted based on their views and opinions of acceptable behavior. CCP did the same
Interestingly, Kugutsumen did the same, was banned and mentioning his name was filtered on the forums for upwards of seven years. SO to go by CCP's history here, Riptard should be banned as well.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:41:00 -
[1142] - Quote
It's not complicated. CCP becomes aware of the sick stuff going on, and decides to end its association with an offender.
CCP cannot police everything that happens on private chat servers, and might never have learned about the Bonus Room. When the cyberbullies publish to the web, however, word gets around and eventually finds its way to the GMs. No cloak-and-dagger theories need be invented to explain some mysterious delay.
And nothing need have changed inside CCP for them to have decided not to allow EVE to be a part of the bullying. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
85
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:41:00 -
[1143] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian So wheres the line?
How many ganks is too many? Define that moderation.
Thats what has been being asked for something like [b wrote:THIRTY ******* PAGES.[/b] How hard is this?!
You aren't getting an answer to that. It has been clearly articulated why you're not getting an answer to that. CCP _won't_ provide it and they are the only people that can. If you want to try and get an answer out of CCP you need to speak to them and not shout at the forum. If you're really nor sure raise a petition and ask for clarification. I really don't know what is so hard about this concept. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:41:00 -
[1144] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:
no its not . But doing that over and over and over etc , to the same individual non-stop, out of a vindictive (narcissistic) need goes overboard and would and should be dealt with
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the miner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the missioner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the incursion runner? Because as Malcanis said, they wont have the protection of this decision and hinted to dire reprecussions if they try When you go out of your way to hunt down the SAME INDIVIDUAL AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR theoretically SAY WEEKS OR MONTHS ON END. Does anyone else get the point of all things in moderation yet So wheres the line? How many ganks is too many? Define that moderation. Thats what has been being asked for something like THIRTY ******* PAGES. How hard is this?!
Ganking players as a form of game play is fine. The line is ultimately where ccp deams it to be . As for the personal line that's upto you . Its upto to decide when you've had enough or gone to far. Basically do what you gotta do . But accept the consequences of YOUR ACTIONS
|
Lazrim
Hedion University Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:41:00 -
[1145] - Quote
I have no dog in this particular fight, but I have been playing this game off and on for about ten years. Mostly off due to RL time constraints, but I've still seen lots of things come and go. From a fairly disinterested and jaundiced eye I will say in this episode that Ripard Teg et al. (bloggers etc.) are no different than Erotica 1. Both parties are creepy in their own particular way. Erotica 1 used in game scams to facilitate a meta-game where he could cause RL anguish to fellow players. Ripard Teg et al. used their blogs to facilitate (by manipulating CCP?) a meta-game where they could cause RL anguish to Erotica 1. So, EVE is still EVE and all parties involved, in this episode, have much more in common than they may realize.
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
85
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:42:00 -
[1146] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ssieth wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Am I going to find myself banned for some action I've forgotten about? Maybe when I made someone sing for their T2 exploration frigate out in nullsec last year? Someone unrelated to the event is going to decide that I'm evilbadfeelshatetorturebanned as a result? Or is it that only a CSM member can get someone banned like that?
Can you be held to the ToS/EULA despite having forgotten that you breached them? Yes, clearly. A poor memory is very rarely much of a defence for anything. Going to an extreme real world example (as it's often easiest to demonstrate a general principal at extremis): if you killed someone 20 years ago and burried the bodies, you could ewell expect to be hauled to jail when they dug them up regardless of a hell of a lot of time passing. You can't expect chronological distance to be a defence for breaching the rules. The simple rule of thimb should be to stay clear of EULA/ToS violation if you want to stay clear of trouble and don't rely on burrying the evidence long enough that folks thing it's a past transgression not worth digging up. But none of those things were against the rules. And apparently they still aren't, unless I get on Ripard Teg's bad side.
CCP disagree and the long and short of it is that it's their rules and their decision. If you don't like that fact you need to take it up with them. Fortunately they've provided a nice button for petitioning and another nice button to unsubscribe if you _really_ don't like the result.
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
397
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:42:00 -
[1147] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:It's not complicated. CCP becomes aware of the sick stuff going on, and decides to end its association with an offender.
CCP cannot police everything that happens on private chat servers, and might never have learned about the Bonus Room. When the cyberbullies publish to the web, however, word gets around and eventually finds its way to the GMs. No cloak-and-dagger theories need be invented to explain some mysterious delay.
And nothing need have changed inside CCP for them to have decided not to allow EVE to be a part of the bullying.
Right, just dont publish it and youre good to go. Oh, also; brain **** your target so they wont tell on you. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
824
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:44:00 -
[1148] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:The fact is Ripard Teg stepped out of line by instigating and encouraging a "witch hunt". He wrote a blog story in which he publicly harassed an individual of this community, and shared that story with the broader MMO community. Not once did he ask Sohkar for his opinion on his experience, nor did he ask other past Bonus Room clients, this was solely his own vendetta against a player of this community who had without CCP involvement of any kind done this same thing to hundreds of people for nearly a year.
If this was truly a case of harassment and stepping outside the lines, then where was the ban, or warning about such things a A month ago when this particular incident was first shared with the community, 3 months ago, 6 months ago, a year ago? Yet I am sure Ripard Teg is free of his involvement in this, he is freed of his harassment of both Erotica1 and Sohkar, whom was ejected from his corporation not because of "The Bonus Room" but because Ripard Teg put him into the public spotlight.
Frankly I think the most disgusting part of this is that a representative of this community took it upon himself to be judge jury and executioner, when that should solely lie with CCP, and only be implemented when a member of the community asks them to investigate an issue.
By all rights this scenario should have been between the Client, CCP and Erotica1, not Ripard Teg, not his Jesters Trek Blog, not the MMO community, and certainly not the numerous White Knights who mounted their horses and marched off to a 400 page threadnaught calling for heads to roll.
If anyone should be banned for this it should be Ripard Teg, and his clear button pushing that has impacted Sohkar far more than anything Erotica1 did, the game moving forward for him is now forever changed, because Ripard wanted to settle a personal vendetta. So shouldnt this guy get banned? He's torturing Erotica by denying him the ability to play ITS CCP who was the ultimate judge and executioner. Riptard simply brought it to everyone attention . And people reacted based on their views and opinions of acceptable behavior. CCP did the same
No he put the fire into everyone. Anyone who has actually followed this game, or been active in the community, or posts on the forums has seen not 1 but literally dozens of Bonus Room shamings. This is not a new thing, it has been going on for a year, and it has only become an issue now, after Ripard Teg took it upon himself to vilify a member of the community for his own personal gratification.
Do you think Ripard cares about Sohkar? I don't. If he did he would have asked Sohkars thoughts on the subject, he would have asked if Sohkar thought it was ok for him to write about his experience, he would have asked Sohkar if it was ok with him that he would be thrust into the community limelight.
But he didn't, he punched up at least 3 different stories about this, without once asking Sohkar's opinion, nor for his consent in rehashing a month old experience.
If you think Ripard had "the best interests of the community at heart" you are kidding yourself. The only thing Ripard cares about is page views and vindication. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
397
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:44:00 -
[1149] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:
no its not . But doing that over and over and over etc , to the same individual non-stop, out of a vindictive (narcissistic) need goes overboard and would and should be dealt with
So when does that extend to the guy ganking the miner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the missioner? So when does that extend to the guy ganking the incursion runner? Because as Malcanis said, they wont have the protection of this decision and hinted to dire reprecussions if they try When you go out of your way to hunt down the SAME INDIVIDUAL AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR theoretically SAY WEEKS OR MONTHS ON END. Does anyone else get the point of all things in moderation yet So wheres the line? How many ganks is too many? Define that moderation. Thats what has been being asked for something like THIRTY ******* PAGES. How hard is this?! Ganking players as a form of game play is fine. The line is ultimately where ccp deams it to be . As for the personal line that's upto you . Its upto to decide when you've had enough or gone to far. Basically do what you gotta do . But accept the consequences of YOUR ACTIONS
Ah, the "its their game, they can break their own rules" defense. Hey that didnt go over so well in T20 either.
Its funny that the ppl making these arguments are so cool with it. Guess when they get banned for playing the game theyll still be find lol http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
85
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:45:00 -
[1150] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Right, just dont publish it and youre good to go. Oh, also; brain **** your target so they wont tell on you.
As has been stated every time this argument has come up so far on this thread, not getting caught _probably_ is a good way not to get punished. Not doing anything that you can be caught doing is probably the best way of not getting caught. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4024
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:45:00 -
[1151] - Quote
Ssieth wrote: CCP disagree and the long and short of it is that it's their rules and their decision. If you don't like that fact you need to take it up with them. Fortunately they've provided a nice button for petitioning and another nice button to unsubscribe if you _really_ don't like the result.
CCP didn't disagree with the actions of E1 for more than a year. It only became against the rules when Ripard Teg decided it should be.
Like I said, I made someone sing for their explo frigate last year. They were pretty mad.
Am I randomly going to get banned, now? It's been ok for a year or more, is it going to stop being ok out of the blue? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
398
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:46:00 -
[1152] - Quote
Lazrim wrote:I have no dog in this particular fight, but I have been playing this game off and on for about ten years. Mostly off due to RL time constraints, but I've still seen lots of things come and go. From a fairly disinterested and jaundiced eye I will say in this episode that Ripard Teg et al. (bloggers etc.) are no different than Erotica 1. Both parties are creepy in their own particular way. Erotica 1 used in game scams to facilitate a meta-game where he could cause RL anguish to fellow players. Ripard Teg et al. used their blogs to facilitate (by manipulating CCP?) a meta-game where they could cause RL anguish to Erotica 1. So, EVE is still EVE and all parties involved, in this episode, have much more in common than they may realize.
Lol, the new meagame is to get CCP to ban ppl for you.
Hey wait, the Goons have been doing that for years http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2905
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:46:00 -
[1153] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:It's not complicated. CCP becomes aware of the sick stuff going on, and decides to end its association with an offender.
CCP cannot police everything that happens on private chat servers, and might never have learned about the Bonus Room. When the cyberbullies publish to the web, however, word gets around and eventually finds its way to the GMs. No cloak-and-dagger theories need be invented to explain some mysterious delay.
And nothing need have changed inside CCP for them to have decided not to allow EVE to be a part of the bullying. lol They were aware. Not only was it public, when this actual recording happened there was a whole bunch of threadnaughts then too. I'm willing to say with 100% certainty that CCP knew about this before. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
398
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:47:00 -
[1154] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Right, just dont publish it and youre good to go. Oh, also; brain **** your target so they wont tell on you. As has been stated every time this argument has come up so far on this thread, not getting caught _probably_ is a good way not to get punished. Not doing anything that you can be caught doing is probably the best way of not getting caught.
Thats not the EVE way though roflmao http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3395
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:48:00 -
[1155] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Drone 16 wrote:But what if I write M...A...L..C...A...N...I...S in peanut butter on my chest? Can I get a discount? I have visions of this becoming a thing at FanFest. Forcing Malcanis to lick his name -- written in any condiment -- off your chest would be considered abusive behavior, although TBH I am not sure who would be abusing whom in that particular instance.
Mike Azariah wrote:Coffee Rocks wrote: Please, continue debating CCP and the CSM on what they've made perfectly clear. If you are still fuzzy and can't understand it by now, chances are you might be next.
Dammit Coffee, do you have to encourage them? Dammit Mike, do you have to warn them?
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Freedom, and responsibility, are two diametrically opposed elements that nonetheless are intrinsically linked.
There can never be one, without the other. Well said, sir!
PS: Several people have told me how much they liked my statement of position on this issue. I want to take a moment to thank CSM5 Chairperson Mynxee for her own eloquent statement, which was very helpful in finding exactly the right tone. Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:48:00 -
[1156] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
So wheres the line?
How many ganks is too many? Define that moderation.
Thats what has been being asked for something like THIRTY ******* PAGES. How hard is this?!
Strikes me that you may not comprehend where you stand, let me clarify that for you.
CCP, the company that owns and operates this game, made a decision to punish some behaviour that they felt was getting out of line. They deliberately did not do this by introducing new rules. They did this by selectively enforcing an interpretation of existing rules. Their interpretation. Of their rules. Within a service they operate. And want to continue operating. Which requires good press, to attract new players and generate new revenue not to mention revenue growth. Nothing they can do will make everyone happy so they did what they think will be the least damaging thing.
You demand clear lines. You demand absolute rules. Very well.
Take up Erotica 1's torch. Become the arch-scumbag that anti-EVE blogs are made of. I'm sure you will find out where the lines are.
But recognize that for all your rage, your demands, your righteous indignation - that battle already ended and the side you are rooting for lost.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
398
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:48:00 -
[1157] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ssieth wrote: CCP disagree and the long and short of it is that it's their rules and their decision. If you don't like that fact you need to take it up with them. Fortunately they've provided a nice button for petitioning and another nice button to unsubscribe if you _really_ don't like the result.
CCP didn't disagree with the actions of E1 for more than a year. It only became against the rules when Ripard Teg decided it should be. Like I said, I made someone sing for their explo frigate last year. They were pretty mad. Am I randomly going to get banned, now? It's been ok for a year or more, is it going to stop being ok out of the blue?
AND you might get banned. You published those facts publicly O.o http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Alxephon
Deadly Gumdrop Death Squad
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:48:00 -
[1158] - Quote
I've submitted a ticket on another character, but the real question is what is going to happen to a player who made real life threats against his so-called torturer over spacebux?
The fact that CCP has jumped on the bandwagon with this is absolutely insane. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
398
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:49:00 -
[1159] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Freedom, and responsibility, are two diametrically opposed elements that nonetheless are intrinsically linked.
There can never be one, without the other. Well said, sir!
The guy who got scammed STILL never had any of that taken away.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4024
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:50:00 -
[1160] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ssieth wrote: CCP disagree and the long and short of it is that it's their rules and their decision. If you don't like that fact you need to take it up with them. Fortunately they've provided a nice button for petitioning and another nice button to unsubscribe if you _really_ don't like the result.
CCP didn't disagree with the actions of E1 for more than a year. It only became against the rules when Ripard Teg decided it should be. Like I said, I made someone sing for their explo frigate last year. They were pretty mad. Am I randomly going to get banned, now? It's been ok for a year or more, is it going to stop being ok out of the blue? AND you might get banned. You published those facts publicly O.o
Hell yes I did. I made him sing Habanera from Carmen, it was hilarious. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
826
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:50:00 -
[1161] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Right, just dont publish it and youre good to go. Oh, also; brain **** your target so they wont tell on you. As has been stated every time this argument has come up so far on this thread, not getting caught _probably_ is a good way not to get punished. Not doing anything that you can be caught doing is probably the best way of not getting caught.
For this to be true you must first assume you have done nothing wrong. Considering this particular case the numerous posts here on EVEO went unpunished. Ergo, it wasn't an issue. The soundclips of dozens of bonus rooms have been shared here, yet only now after a year it is a problem.
What has changed since then?
Well Ripard Teg blogged about it...
Thats it as far as I can tell.
Maybe Sohkar did go to CCP, maybe others did to, maybe this was the straw that broke the camels back. But I don't think CCP would operate like that, I am sure if that were the case Erotica1 would have been warned about the potential violation of the rules.
Ultimately we have a witch hunt scenario, that has succeeded in vilifying a community member, and CCP trying to save face with a weak open ended comment on it.
Either the rules have changed, or they haven't we don't really know, and won't until the next witch hunt. |
Brorr Liason
Maraque Enterprises Northern Associates.
50
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:50:00 -
[1162] - Quote
I'll be sure to file a petition every single time someone says something mean to me on Teamspeak, Mumble or Vent.
I guess that's what this announcement means. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
88
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:51:00 -
[1163] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Ah, the "its their game, they can break their own rules" defense. Hey that didnt go over so well in T20 either.
Its funny that the ppl making these arguments are so cool with it. Guess when they get banned for playing the game theyll still be find lol
No - we've accepted that CCP already ave a set of rules that we have agreed to play by. We've also all agreed to abide by their decisions regarding those rules and to any changes they make to those rules. Fortunately there's an option in there for us to opt out if we want. We're held to no financial liability beyond the subscription period (and any damages caused I guess) and can drop out of the game any time we choose and go play other games where we prefer those rules (or how they're interpretted).
It's really not very complex. CCP choose to run the rules with fairly significant grey areas and that's EVE. It goes along with the gankers, scammers and awoxers (who are in no way threatened by the ruling here and are, in fact, protected by the existence of those grey areas). If you don't like games where the rules have grey areas of this nature then there are plenty of games with much clearer divisions between black and white. I'm sure there are folks here who can recommend some. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
398
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:51:00 -
[1164] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
So wheres the line?
How many ganks is too many? Define that moderation.
Thats what has been being asked for something like THIRTY ******* PAGES. How hard is this?!
Strikes me that you may not comprehend where you stand, let me clarify that for you. CCP, the company that owns and operates this game, made a decision to punish some behaviour that they felt was getting out of line. They deliberately did not do this by introducing new rules. They did this by selectively enforcing an interpretation of existing rules. Their interpretation. Of their rules. Within a service they operate. And want to continue operating. Which requires good press, to attract new players and generate new revenue not to mention revenue growth. Nothing they can do will make everyone happy so they did what they think will be the least damaging thing. You demand clear lines. You demand absolute rules. Very well. Take up Erotica 1's torch. Become the arch-scumbag that anti-EVE blogs are made of. I'm sure you will find out where the lines are. But recognize that for all your rage, your demands, your righteous indignation - that battle already ended and the side you are rooting for lost.
Funny thing about that... It seems if you blog hard enough about it, and get the right ppl to notice it, you can make a practice a year old and well known by CCP into something illegal in game.
Quote: But recognize that for all your rage, your demands, your righteous indignation - that battle already ended and the side you are rooting for lost.
lol but recognize, that for all my blah blahblah, you missed the part where I already told you where I fall on this and its not MY cause.
roflmao, this is a fun game man
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
57
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:51:00 -
[1165] - Quote
Ripard Teg brought what was an unknown issue to people like myself and the wider community who do not necessarily use the official forums , and vast majority stated there dis-stain for such behavior. I do not interact with trade hub locals because i know its scam central. Therefore having not been scammed like many others who take precautions , i was unaware such action was taking place. Ripard Teg brought what i believe to be a immoral act in my opinion to light . That is all he did
Evidently most people agree about this being immoral . But its upto each person to decide this and CCP to make judgements about what they consider acceptable behavior in the community which they built and which they provide for us. They did end off story |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
398
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:52:00 -
[1166] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Ah, the "its their game, they can break their own rules" defense. Hey that didnt go over so well in T20 either.
Its funny that the ppl making these arguments are so cool with it. Guess when they get banned for playing the game theyll still be find lol
No - we've accepted that CCP already ave a set of rules that we have agreed to play by. We've also all agreed to abide by their decisions regarding those rules and to any changes they make to those rules. Fortunately there's an option in there for us to opt out if we want. We're held to no financial liability beyond the subscription period (and any damages caused I guess) and can drop out of the game any time we choose and go play other games where we prefer those rules (or how they're interpretted). It's really not very complex. CCP choose to run the rules with fairly significant grey areas and that's EVE. It goes along with the gankers, scammers and awoxers (who are in no way threatened by the ruling here and are, in fact, protected by the existence of those grey areas). If you don't like games where the rules have grey areas of this nature then there are plenty of games with much clearer divisions between black and white. I'm sure there are folks here who can recommend some.
Right. CCP's decisions are never, EVER, changed by player reactions to their decisions.
RIGHT? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4177
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:52:00 -
[1167] - Quote
And here I thought I'd be bored waiting for my Sushi order.
BAM!!! GD delivers yet again!
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4024
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:53:00 -
[1168] - Quote
Brorr Liason wrote:I'll be sure to file a petition every single time someone says something mean to me on Teamspeak, Mumble or Vent.
I guess that's what this announcement means.
PL's comms are going to be interesting from here on out. They're legendary. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
398
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:53:00 -
[1169] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Ripard Teg brought what was an unknown issue to people like myself and the wider community who do not necessarily use the official forums , and vast majority stated there dis-stain for such behavior. I do not interact with trade hub locals because i know its scam central. Therefore having not been scammed like many others who take precautions , i was unaware such action was taking place. Ripard Teg brought what i believe to be a immoral act in my opinion to light . That is all he did
Again... Kugutsumen.
Same thing.
Banned from the game, his name made to hit the swear word filter for SEVEN YEARS
But yeah. Totally different.
I gotta go to wal mart, ill brb. This is so fun tho http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
70
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:55:00 -
[1170] - Quote
Lazrim wrote:I have no dog in this particular fight, but I have been playing this game off and on for about ten years. Mostly off due to RL time constraints, but I've still seen lots of things come and go. From a fairly disinterested and jaundiced eye I will say in this episode that Ripard Teg et al. (bloggers etc.) are no different than Erotica 1. Both parties are creepy in their own particular way. Erotica 1 used in game scams to facilitate a meta-game where he could cause RL anguish to fellow players. Ripard Teg et al. used their blogs to facilitate (by manipulating CCP?) a meta-game where they could cause RL anguish to Erotica 1. So, EVE is still EVE and all parties involved, in this episode, have much more in common than they may realize.
not at all. Ripard et al. used blogs to call out anti social / sociopathic behaviour by a group of people that had nothing to do with playing a game and everything to do with causing out of game pain. that was already in the public domain. H emay or may not have had an agenda, but there is no real comparison. I don't ever recall ripard asking E1 to smear mayonaise or peanut butter on his body and spell out his name.......................
Now that CCP have made their position clear all the gang bangers are crying tears of molten veldspar because they will get called out if they try to take things to far for their own perverse pleasures. This is a game and should be played as such. Draggin people to TS for a ritual humiliation for you to publish and get off to is not playing a game, its called being a ****. |
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3397
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:57:00 -
[1171] - Quote
Brorr Liason wrote:I'll be sure to file a petition every single time someone says something mean to me on Teamspeak, Mumble or Vent. I guess that's what this announcement means. I would exercise some caution. Real-life harrassment may well include harrassing the GM staff with spurious petitions. Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 00:57:00 -
[1172] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
lol but recognize, that for all my blah blahblah, you missed the part where I already told you where I fall on this and its not MY cause.
roflmao, this is a fun game man
So you're actually just an attention seeking **** stirrer? An emo kid kicking the thread for his infantile jollies and the "hey, look at ME!!!" factor?
I'm cool with that.
Carry on, forum warrior.
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
826
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:00:00 -
[1173] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Ripard Teg brought what was an unknown issue to people like myself and the wider community who do not necessarily use the official forums , and vast majority stated there dis-stain for such behavior. I do not interact with trade hub locals because i know its scam central. Therefore having not been scammed like many others who take precautions , i was unaware such action was taking place. Ripard Teg brought what i believe to be a immoral act in my opinion to light . That is all he did
Evidently most people agree about this being immoral . But its upto each person to decide this and CCP to make judgements about what they consider acceptable behavior in the community which they built and which they provide for us. They did end off story
And you don't think Ripard Tegs blog had anything to do with CCP's decision or their joint announcement with CSM?
Because that is what is the core issue, and has been since day 1 of this.
If CCP felt Erotica1 was deserving of a ban, why not a month ago? 3 months ago? 6 months ago? a year ago? Either its eerily similar timing, or it is clearly a decision made because of Ripards actions, and is serving to only appease the outrage.
As far as I can tell I can still take you into teamspeak, make you sing songs, coerce you into giving me all your things. That hasn't changed, so exactly what rule was violated? In the past month between this particular situation being posted on EVEO, and Ripard Tegs blog what has changed?
But I am sure the 400 page thread, and the negative remarks on MMO community sites following Ripards blog had nothing to do with CCP's decision.
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
88
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:00:00 -
[1174] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Ssieth wrote: It's really not very complex. CCP choose to run the rules with fairly significant grey areas and that's EVE. It goes along with the gankers, scammers and awoxers (who are in no way threatened by the ruling here and are, in fact, protected by the existence of those grey areas). If you don't like games where the rules have grey areas of this nature then there are plenty of games with much clearer divisions between black and white. I'm sure there are folks here who can recommend some.
Right. CCP's decisions are never, EVER, changed by player reactions to their decisions. RIGHT?
I missed the point where I argued to the contrary of that. I'd be happy to acknowledge it in fact and to state that I think that CCP would be insane to ignore the opinions of their customers. That bit where I mentioned that CCP clearly articulate their right to change the rules and to iterpret them? This might be one of those very reasons. Again - if this causes you anguish I'd recommend you find somewhere less anguish-inducing. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
58
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:00:00 -
[1175] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:Ripard Teg brought what was an unknown issue to people like myself and the wider community who do not necessarily use the official forums , and vast majority stated there dis-stain for such behavior. I do not interact with trade hub locals because i know its scam central. Therefore having not been scammed like many others who take precautions , i was unaware such action was taking place. Ripard Teg brought what i believe to be a immoral act in my opinion to light . That is all he did
Again... Kugutsumen. Same thing. Banned from the game, his name made to hit the swear word filter for SEVEN YEARS But yeah. Totally different. I gotta go to wal mart, ill brb. This is so fun tho
I am unaware of what your talking about and would have to review the facts on this case before rendering an opinion. Bear in mind games, communities and people evolve and change over-time . With the serous advent of social media the internet is more prevalent in our lives. That is the reason rules and regs with regards to virtual inter-action now exist. What might have been unacceptable or acceptable seven years ago has changed in some instances . Its all about your point of view. And like it or not CCP point of view is a little clearer with this action. Whether you think that's good or bad is up-to you . Personally well done ripard teg for bringing this disgusting behavior to light. And to CCP you took your sweet time, but did what i believe to be in everyone interests , from my perspective |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4595
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:02:00 -
[1176] - Quote
Brorr Liason wrote:I'll be sure to file a petition every single time someone says something mean to me on Teamspeak, Mumble or Vent.
I guess that's what this announcement means.
Let us know how that works for you.
Better select another forum now, though, as you likely won't be able to log in to this one.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4025
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:03:00 -
[1177] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:Ripard Teg brought what was an unknown issue to people like myself and the wider community who do not necessarily use the official forums , and vast majority stated there dis-stain for such behavior. I do not interact with trade hub locals because i know its scam central. Therefore having not been scammed like many others who take precautions , i was unaware such action was taking place. Ripard Teg brought what i believe to be a immoral act in my opinion to light . That is all he did
Again... Kugutsumen. Same thing. Banned from the game, his name made to hit the swear word filter for SEVEN YEARS But yeah. Totally different. I gotta go to wal mart, ill brb. This is so fun tho I am unaware of what your talking about and would have to review the facts on this case before rendering an opinion. Bear in mind games, communities and people evolve and change over-time . With the serous advent of social media the internet is more prevalent in our lives. That is the reason rules and regs with regards to virtual inter-action now exist. What might have been unacceptable or acceptable seven years ago has changed in some instances . Its all about your point of view. And like it or not CCP point of view is a little clearer with this action. Whether you think that's good or bad is up-to you . Personally well done ripard teg for bringing this disgusting behavior to light. And to CCP you took your sweet time, but did what i believe to be in everyone interests , from my perspective
Do you actually not know who Kugu is? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
826
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:03:00 -
[1178] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:Ripard Teg brought what was an unknown issue to people like myself and the wider community who do not necessarily use the official forums , and vast majority stated there dis-stain for such behavior. I do not interact with trade hub locals because i know its scam central. Therefore having not been scammed like many others who take precautions , i was unaware such action was taking place. Ripard Teg brought what i believe to be a immoral act in my opinion to light . That is all he did
Again... Kugutsumen. Same thing. Banned from the game, his name made to hit the swear word filter for SEVEN YEARS But yeah. Totally different. I gotta go to wal mart, ill brb. This is so fun tho I am unaware of what your talking about and would have to review the facts on this case before rendering an opinion. Bear in mind games, communities and people evolve and change over-time . With the serous advent of social media the internet is more prevalent in our lives. That is the reason rules and regs with regards to virtual inter-action now exist. What might have been unacceptable or acceptable seven years ago has changed in some instances . Its all about your point of view. And like it or not CCP point of view is a little clearer with this action. Whether you think that's good or bad is up-to you . Personally well done ripard teg for bringing this disgusting behavior to light. And to CCP you took your sweet time, but did what i believe to be in everyone interests , from my perspective
http://themittani.com/features/kugutsumencom-brief-history |
Percival Rose
J44 Capital Axiom Initiative
8
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:03:00 -
[1179] - Quote
Lazrim wrote:I have no dog in this particular fight, but I have been playing this game off and on for about ten years. Mostly off due to RL time constraints, but I've still seen lots of things come and go. From a fairly disinterested and jaundiced eye I will say in this episode that Ripard Teg et al. (bloggers etc.) are no different than Erotica 1. Both parties are creepy in their own particular way. Erotica 1 used in game scams to facilitate a meta-game where he could cause RL anguish to fellow players. Ripard Teg et al. used their blogs to facilitate (by manipulating CCP?) a meta-game where they could cause RL anguish to Erotica 1. So, EVE is still EVE and all parties involved, in this episode, have much more in common than they may realize.
When you become subject of a scam, gank or blog post this may **** you off. But the fact that it's allowed makes EVE a great game. It's the very reason I keep coming back to EVE while all my other games are catching dust.
I really don't understand why everyone is raging at Erotica1 while you all seem to be fine with the blog post on Jester's Trek. While some of it is based on facts, it's biased and slanderous. If anyone should be banned it's the author of that article. De you know who's going to inherit New Eden? Arms dealers. Because everyone else is too busy killing each other. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:04:00 -
[1180] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:Drone 16 wrote:But what if I write M...A...L..C...A...N...I...S in peanut butter on my chest? Can I get a discount? I have visions of this becoming a thing at FanFest. Forcing Malcanis to lick his name -- written in any condiment -- off your chest would be considered abusive behavior, although TBH I am not sure who would be abusing whom in that particular instance. For the record, you're the one who introduced the part about Malcanis doing any licking. *I* thought we were still just talking body art here.
There should be a hospitality suite at FanFest where the only refreshments provided are jars of condiments. No signs, no explanation, just jars.
|
|
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
58
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:05:00 -
[1181] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:Ripard Teg brought what was an unknown issue to people like myself and the wider community who do not necessarily use the official forums , and vast majority stated there dis-stain for such behavior. I do not interact with trade hub locals because i know its scam central. Therefore having not been scammed like many others who take precautions , i was unaware such action was taking place. Ripard Teg brought what i believe to be a immoral act in my opinion to light . That is all he did
Again... Kugutsumen. Same thing. Banned from the game, his name made to hit the swear word filter for SEVEN YEARS But yeah. Totally different. I gotta go to wal mart, ill brb. This is so fun tho I am unaware of what your talking about and would have to review the facts on this case before rendering an opinion. Bear in mind games, communities and people evolve and change over-time . With the serous advent of social media the internet is more prevalent in our lives. That is the reason rules and regs with regards to virtual inter-action now exist. What might have been unacceptable or acceptable seven years ago has changed in some instances . Its all about your point of view. And like it or not CCP point of view is a little clearer with this action. Whether you think that's good or bad is up-to you . Personally well done ripard teg for bringing this disgusting behavior to light. And to CCP you took your sweet time, but did what i believe to be in everyone interests , from my perspective Do you actually not know who Kugu is?
nope
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
399
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:06:00 -
[1182] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
lol but recognize, that for all my blah blahblah, you missed the part where I already told you where I fall on this and its not MY cause.
roflmao, this is a fun game man
So you're actually just an attention seeking **** stirrer? An emo kid kicking the thread for his infantile jollies and the "hey, look at ME!!!" factor? I'm cool with that. Carry on, forum warrior.
roflmao Id have figured ppl would have caught onto this earlier...
Like PAGES earlier. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4027
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:07:00 -
[1183] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:Ripard Teg brought what was an unknown issue to people like myself and the wider community who do not necessarily use the official forums , and vast majority stated there dis-stain for such behavior. I do not interact with trade hub locals because i know its scam central. Therefore having not been scammed like many others who take precautions , i was unaware such action was taking place. Ripard Teg brought what i believe to be a immoral act in my opinion to light . That is all he did
Again... Kugutsumen. Same thing. Banned from the game, his name made to hit the swear word filter for SEVEN YEARS But yeah. Totally different. I gotta go to wal mart, ill brb. This is so fun tho I am unaware of what your talking about and would have to review the facts on this case before rendering an opinion. Bear in mind games, communities and people evolve and change over-time . With the serous advent of social media the internet is more prevalent in our lives. That is the reason rules and regs with regards to virtual inter-action now exist. What might have been unacceptable or acceptable seven years ago has changed in some instances . Its all about your point of view. And like it or not CCP point of view is a little clearer with this action. Whether you think that's good or bad is up-to you . Personally well done ripard teg for bringing this disgusting behavior to light. And to CCP you took your sweet time, but did what i believe to be in everyone interests , from my perspective Do you actually not know who Kugu is? nope
Someone linked it above.
The short of it is that Kugu was a whistleblower for a MUCH worse issue. Outright cheating and developer favoritism to a specific nullsec alliance.
He exposed it, and was figuratively nuked. IP banned for life, his name made into a word bannable to say for years. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
88
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:09:00 -
[1184] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Do you actually not know who Kugu is? nope
For reference: http://themittani.com/features/kugutsumencom-brief-history
Not an unbiased source but a relatively succinct one. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
58
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:10:00 -
[1185] - Quote
ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:10:00 -
[1186] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:olan2005 wrote:
I am unaware of what your talking about and would have to review the facts on this case before rendering an opinion. Bear in mind games, communities and people evolve and change over-time . With the serous advent of social media the internet is more prevalent in our lives. That is the reason rules and regs with regards to virtual inter-action now exist. What might have been unacceptable or acceptable seven years ago has changed in some instances . Its all about your point of view. And like it or not CCP point of view is a little clearer with this action. Whether you think that's good or bad is up-to you . Personally well done ripard teg for bringing this disgusting behavior to light. And to CCP you took your sweet time, but did what i believe to be in everyone interests , from my perspective
Do you actually not know who Kugu is?
Quote: Someone linked it above.
The short of it is that Kugu was a whistleblower for a MUCH worse issue. Outright cheating a developer favoritism to a specific nullsec alliance.
He exposed it, and was figuratively nuked. IP banned for life, his name made into a word bannable to say for years.
Short version; CCP employees were giving an alliance T2 BPOs (when they erre being seeded into the game in the first place). Kugu blew the whistle on them having done that, HUUUUUGE bad PR incident (the creation of the CSM), all kinds of ****. Kugu was banned from the game, and his name was on the filtered list for seven years. I mean every time you said his name on the forums, it came out as ************ instead. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4027
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:11:00 -
[1187] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment
You will note that Kugu is still banned, despite being entirely in the right. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4178
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:12:00 -
[1188] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:olan2005 wrote:
I am unaware of what your talking about and would have to review the facts on this case before rendering an opinion. Bear in mind games, communities and people evolve and change over-time . With the serous advent of social media the internet is more prevalent in our lives. That is the reason rules and regs with regards to virtual inter-action now exist. What might have been unacceptable or acceptable seven years ago has changed in some instances . Its all about your point of view. And like it or not CCP point of view is a little clearer with this action. Whether you think that's good or bad is up-to you . Personally well done ripard teg for bringing this disgusting behavior to light. And to CCP you took your sweet time, but did what i believe to be in everyone interests , from my perspective
Do you actually not know who Kugu is? Quote: Someone linked it above.
The short of it is that Kugu was a whistleblower for a MUCH worse issue. Outright cheating a developer favoritism to a specific nullsec alliance.
He exposed it, and was figuratively nuked. IP banned for life, his name made into a word bannable to say for years.
Short version; CCP employees were giving an alliance T2 BPOs (when they erre being seeded into the game in the first place). Kugu blew the whistle on them having done that, HUUUUUGE bad PR incident (the creation of the CSM), all kinds of ****. Kugu was banned from the game, and his name was on the filtered list for seven years. I mean every time you said his name on the forums, it came out as ************ instead.
The story of he who shall not be named.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:12:00 -
[1189] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment
Right, and Kugu was punished for the very reason you say the publisher of this blog SHOULDNT be punished for.
Bringing it to the players' attention. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
58
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:12:00 -
[1190] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that people should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment You will note that Kugu is still banned, despite being entirely in the right.
Hmm if you want to start a unban Kugu thread i will totally support it |
|
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
58
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:13:00 -
[1191] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment Right, and Kugu was punished for the very reason you say the publisher of this blog SHOULDNT be punished for. Bringing it to the players' attention.
YES BECAUSE A LOT HAS CHANGED IN SEVEN YEARS |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4178
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:13:00 -
[1192] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment Right, and Kugu was punished for the very reason you say the publisher of this blog SHOULDNT be punished for. Bringing it to the players' attention.
Well, that, and he kinda tried to blackmail CCP just a wee bit.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
826
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:14:00 -
[1193] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment You will note that Kugu is still banned, despite being entirely in the right.
He was banned for leaking personal information, not for leaking the misdeeds. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:15:00 -
[1194] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment Right, and Kugu was punished for the very reason you say the publisher of this blog SHOULDNT be punished for. Bringing it to the players' attention. YES BECAUSE A LOT HAS CHANGED IN SEVEN YEARS
Man, for being so young, how do you fanboi so hard lol
Oh ****, all caps! Did I elicit an emotional response? Do I worry about being banned now? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:17:00 -
[1195] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment Right, and Kugu was punished for the very reason you say the publisher of this blog SHOULDNT be punished for. Bringing it to the players' attention.
Ripard was not busting on a CCP employee for misconduct. He was highlighting some pretty deviant behaviour by a group or players. Fundamental difference there.
He decided to go crusading, for his reasons. Many rallied to his flag.
CCP recognized a problem and decided to do something about it. Maybe they knew earlier. Maybe they didn't. Maybe it is not fair. Maybe that is irrelevant as it is their service to operate as they see fit.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4029
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:18:00 -
[1196] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment You will note that Kugu is still banned, despite being entirely in the right. He was banned for leaking personal information, not for leaking the misdeeds. (or so they say) His name was banned because CCP was butthurt that they got put out.
That was the official reason, yes.
But we all know it's because he didn't have enough blog puppets. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
58
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:18:00 -
[1197] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment You will note that Kugu is still banned, despite being entirely in the right. He was banned for leaking personal information, not for leaking the misdeeds.
I still look at that and think CCP was wrong SEVEN YEARS AGO . While distasteful the leak of personal information served in my opinion a greater good . To use a extreme modern example look at snowdon. His giving classified material to russians uncool. But his initial actions of revealing just how much GCHQ AND THE NSA were intruding into peoples private business sparked a huge debate and exposed the fact that both the US and Britain spied on world leaders and their own people . As a Brit i say my government in the wrong and Snowdon initial actions were bang on correct from my perspective |
LordOfDespair
Capsuleer Combat Training Services
87
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:18:00 -
[1198] - Quote
Vague as always CCP. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4597
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:28:00 -
[1199] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:olan2005 wrote:ok skimmed the mittani thread. THE T2 back then really annoyed me quit eve for a while as a result . CCP has changed a lot since then with regards to policies of in-game interactions and use by employees. But yes in that incident seven years ago CCP were in the wrong completely . Thank fully since then a lot has changed and with the internet being so widespread, CCP and other corporations cant sensor people without damn good reason .E.G i express disapproval of corporation A its fine
E.g i express hatred and state that poeple should attack said corporation (A) thats not and probably i would receive some form of punishment You will note that Kugu is still banned, despite being entirely in the right.
Pretty sure posting personal CCP employee information is not 'entirely in the right'.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying he didn't do the right thing. He just went about it the wrong way. And I will forever hold the fact that we're stuck with the CSM on his head.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1512
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:30:00 -
[1200] - Quote
So... it this a thread to ***** for likes now? I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
828
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:31:00 -
[1201] - Quote
Ya thanks alot Kugu for giving us the CSM. If it wasn't for you Ripard Teg wouldn't have abused his position, Erotica1 wouldn't have been banned for keeping Sohkar up, causing him to be unable to control planes effectively resulting in that Malaysian Plane disappearing.
|
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
87
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:33:00 -
[1202] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:So... it this a thread to ***** for likes now?
Both this one and the last one have only served that purpose, really. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4179
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:36:00 -
[1203] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:And I will forever hold the fact that we're stuck with the CSM on his head.
Mr Epeen wrote:And I will forever hold the fact that we're stuck with the CSM on his head.
This The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
828
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:39:00 -
[1204] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:So... it this a thread to ***** for likes now? Both this one and the last one have only served that purpose, really.
Well trolling exercise too. |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:42:00 -
[1205] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Louis Robichaud wrote: 1: You pay EVE online to harvest tears? Interesting.
2: You are aware that real people play the game right? That a flesh and bone human being controls that rifter?
3: Ah, the curse of English as a second language strikes again! Or perhaps it's irony. The number of times I've seen someone criticizing someone's else "intellegence" (sic)... I guess it was bound to happen to me.
1: lol ppl that think my sig actually represents me 2: no; you are pixels. You are a ship. You are content in this game to me. If you get bitchy about what I do to your pixels, thats YOUR fault for forgetting this is first and foremost a game.
you mean they way that sociopath and his sycophants forgot it was a game when they pulled their depraved **** on TS. Like that you mean.
om nom nom, your sociopath tears, good they taste..................... |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
828
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:45:00 -
[1206] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Louis Robichaud wrote: 1: You pay EVE online to harvest tears? Interesting.
2: You are aware that real people play the game right? That a flesh and bone human being controls that rifter?
3: Ah, the curse of English as a second language strikes again! Or perhaps it's irony. The number of times I've seen someone criticizing someone's else "intellegence" (sic)... I guess it was bound to happen to me.
1: lol ppl that think my sig actually represents me 2: no; you are pixels. You are a ship. You are content in this game to me. If you get bitchy about what I do to your pixels, thats YOUR fault for forgetting this is first and foremost a game. you mean they way that sociopath and his sycophants forgot it was a game when they pulled their depraved **** on TS. Like that you mean. om nom nom, your sociopath tears, good they taste.....................
heh another who didn't listen to the recording.
|
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
87
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:46:00 -
[1207] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:H aVo K wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:So... it this a thread to ***** for likes now? Both this one and the last one have only served that purpose, really. Well trolling exercise too.
One and the same, really. |
Empress Of EVE
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:50:00 -
[1208] - Quote
It's amazing how much heat Erotica is getting.. He's Famous! Next he'll get hired by CCP and no one will be allowed to mention anything or be banned.. like min....t....cough.
Eve is real! oh wait.. its not real don't take it to team speak.. Eve is real.. eve isn't real...im lost lol
Btw.. Thank you for playing eve, please don't cry today.. we don't want to see a 400 page dev post about causing real life tears..
Thank you.
- Empress of Eve.. ps eve community is harsh, life is harsh.. sand and water and harden the ____ up. Ps Can I have your stuffs if your quitting? |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:50:00 -
[1209] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Darkopus wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Louis Robichaud wrote: 1: You pay EVE online to harvest tears? Interesting.
2: You are aware that real people play the game right? That a flesh and bone human being controls that rifter?
3: Ah, the curse of English as a second language strikes again! Or perhaps it's irony. The number of times I've seen someone criticizing someone's else "intellegence" (sic)... I guess it was bound to happen to me.
1: lol ppl that think my sig actually represents me 2: no; you are pixels. You are a ship. You are content in this game to me. If you get bitchy about what I do to your pixels, thats YOUR fault for forgetting this is first and foremost a game. you mean they way that sociopath and his sycophants forgot it was a game when they pulled their depraved **** on TS. Like that you mean. om nom nom, your sociopath tears, good they taste..................... heh another who didn't listen to the recording.
mmmmm keep your tears coming I am noming lots of them today |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
366
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:57:00 -
[1210] - Quote
I'm just going to leave this here:
http://www.hazingprevention.org/hazing-information/hidden-harm-of-hazing.html
Thanks CCP for taking this seriously. |
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
830
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:58:00 -
[1211] - Quote
Darkopus wrote: mmmmm keep your tears coming I am noming lots of them today
Always a pleasure to feed the 6day old forum alts.
|
Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
97
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 01:59:00 -
[1212] - Quote
the tears of those who like to make tears are delicious.
Ever think that CCP likes to keep the line vague not only so that scamming, and space villany can continue. But on the flip side they can make the game a safer place for people and by keeping the rules vague those of you mentally unwell sadists might have to resort to less extreme behavior.
I still would feel better about CCP if they would confirm the type and length of ban in this case, so as to have a clearer example that this is clearly beyond the line. I worry some of the ones arguing to emotional harass other humans can only be persuaded by blunt instruments(metaphysically, not physically speaking. RL violence isn't a great teacher on why not to do violence). |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:01:00 -
[1213] - Quote
Meh, imo if youre wasting time/effort on judging the morality of your actions in a video game, you missed the point of it being a game and should take a few years off.
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2905
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:04:00 -
[1214] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Darkopus wrote: mmmmm keep your tears coming I am noming lots of them today
Always a pleasure to feed the 6day old forum alts. Feeding them with "tears" that they seem to be pulling out of their ass too! Good job buddy!
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:05:00 -
[1215] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:H aVo K wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:So... it this a thread to ***** for likes now? Both this one and the last one have only served that purpose, really. Well trolling exercise too.
Ive said this actually lol
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Anslo
Scope Works
4614
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:06:00 -
[1216] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Meh, imo if youre wasting time/effort on judging the morality of your actions in a video game, you missed the point of it being a game and should take a few years off. But I guess that makes me evil/a sociopath Then why are you so outraged? It's only a game. Perhaps you should take a break from Eve :)
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4597
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:06:00 -
[1217] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Ya thanks alot Kugu for giving us the CSM. If it wasn't for you Ripard Teg wouldn't have abused his position, Erotica1 wouldn't have been banned for keeping Sohkar up, causing him to be unable to control planes effectively resulting in that Malaysian Plane disappearing.
Just going to off topic here and pontificate a bit.
I play combat flight sims. When my squadron goes up against another in a war, we are every bit as brutal as anything you'll see in 0.0. We are harsh and kill without remorse. Our forums reflect this. There is stuff in there I would never share with people I'd want to keep as friends. We joke about death and destruction. A lot.
But here's the thing we don't do. We don't bring real world into it. We don't link vids of helicopters straffing newsmen in the middle east and laugh about it. We show pictures of Eastern Front destruction but draw a line at showing bodies. We don't joke about the human cost of real war. There's no place for that in a game.
So when I see people making light of real world tragedies, I get a little irked. It may seem nothing to you but that was a real plane, full of real people that have real families left in shock and grief.
We all have a line. That's where I draw mine.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2906
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:08:00 -
[1218] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:Ever think that CCP likes to keep the line vague not only so that scamming, and space villany can continue. But on the flip side they can make the game a safer place for people and by keeping the rules vague those of you mentally unwell sadists might have to resort to less extreme behavior. It's more likely just to broaden the gap between the two types of player and result in more people wanting to gank and scam. I'm even considering dusting of the old ganking ship and going out bear hunting.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:11:00 -
[1219] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Louis Robichaud wrote: 1: You pay EVE online to harvest tears? Interesting.
2: You are aware that real people play the game right? That a flesh and bone human being controls that rifter?
3: Ah, the curse of English as a second language strikes again! Or perhaps it's irony. The number of times I've seen someone criticizing someone's else "intellegence" (sic)... I guess it was bound to happen to me.
1: lol ppl that think my sig actually represents me 2: no; you are pixels. You are a ship. You are content in this game to me. If you get bitchy about what I do to your pixels, thats YOUR fault for forgetting this is first and foremost a game. you mean they way that sociopath and his sycophants forgot it was a game when they pulled their depraved **** on TS. Like that you mean. om nom nom, your sociopath tears, good they taste.....................
rofl man youre priceless
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:12:00 -
[1220] - Quote
Empress Of EVE wrote:It's amazing how much heat Erotica is getting.. He's Famous! Next he'll get hired by CCP and no one will be allowed to mention anything or be banned.. like min....t....cough.
Eve is real! oh wait.. its not real don't take it to team speak.. Eve is real.. eve isn't real...im lost lol
Btw.. Thank you for playing eve, please don't cry today.. we don't want to see a 400 page dev post about causing real life tears..
Thank you.
- Empress of Eve.. ps eve community is harsh, life is harsh.. sand and water and harden the ____ up. Ps Can I have your stuffs if your quitting?
I do see why they backed off the eve is real thing now. Everyone would get tried for murder http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Starden Arnolles
Phoibe Enterprises
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:12:00 -
[1221] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello everyone,
For the last few weeks the community has been debating the topic of real life harassment, and its connection to the EVE Universe. The EVE Universe Community Team has been working on this issue for some time now, and has had extensive discussions about it with your elected representatives, the Council of Stellar Management.
EVE is a virtual world whose inhabitants have more freedom to play the villain and experiment with various backhanded tactics than in any other MMO. The freedom to scam and commit piracy, espionage, and extortion are all fundamental to the EVE Online experience, and CCP will never change that. However, it is important to remember that the EVE universe is a virtual world, and behavior of this nature should remain firmly within that virtual world.
While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world.
CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
CCP has an expressly declared zero tolerance for forum harassment of its employees, etc. The connection between the fantasy of virtual criminal behavior following over into real life has been made above. Why should there be more tolerance of real life harassment of players? Real life harassment has far more serious potential than mere forum harassment. "[C]lear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world" seems to be a statement of knowledge of proven serious real life harassment. I want to urge that CCP should have zero tolerance for real life harassment just like it does for mere forum harassment of its personnel, etc. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:13:00 -
[1222] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Darkopus wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Louis Robichaud wrote: 1: You pay EVE online to harvest tears? Interesting.
2: You are aware that real people play the game right? That a flesh and bone human being controls that rifter?
3: Ah, the curse of English as a second language strikes again! Or perhaps it's irony. The number of times I've seen someone criticizing someone's else "intellegence" (sic)... I guess it was bound to happen to me.
1: lol ppl that think my sig actually represents me 2: no; you are pixels. You are a ship. You are content in this game to me. If you get bitchy about what I do to your pixels, thats YOUR fault for forgetting this is first and foremost a game. you mean they way that sociopath and his sycophants forgot it was a game when they pulled their depraved **** on TS. Like that you mean. om nom nom, your sociopath tears, good they taste..................... heh another who didn't listen to the recording. mmmmm keep your tears coming I am noming lots of them today
Keep it up; I feel harassed. Might get a ban like that. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:14:00 -
[1223] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Meh, imo if youre wasting time/effort on judging the morality of your actions in a video game, you missed the point of it being a game and should take a few years off. But I guess that makes me evil/a sociopath Then why are you so outraged? It's only a game. Perhaps you should take a break from Eve :)
Thats the funny thing, IM NOT
roflmao
Why are you? Maybe you should follow your own advice
The funniest thing is Ive admitted Im just here for lulz and you all are still acting like Im serious about this ****
oh guys, keep it up. This is better than tears http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:17:00 -
[1224] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Ya thanks alot Kugu for giving us the CSM. If it wasn't for you Ripard Teg wouldn't have abused his position, Erotica1 wouldn't have been banned for keeping Sohkar up, causing him to be unable to control planes effectively resulting in that Malaysian Plane disappearing.
Just going to off topic here and pontificate a bit. I play combat flight sims. When my squadron goes up against another in a war, we are every bit as brutal as anything you'll see in 0.0. We are harsh and kill without remorse. Our forums reflect this. There is stuff in there I would never share with people I'd want to keep as friends. We joke about death and destruction. A lot. But here's the thing we don't do. We don't bring real world into it. We don't link vids of helicopters straffing newsmen in the middle east and laugh about it. We show pictures of Eastern Front destruction but draw a line at showing bodies. We don't joke about the human cost of real war. There's no place for that in a game. So when I see people making light of real world tragedies, I get a little irked. It may seem nothing to you but that was a real plane, full of real people that have real families left in shock and grief. We all have a line. That's where I draw mine. Mr Epeen
Where was any of that done?
I think I missed it
Also; lol guys, high sec missioners are sociopaths now apparently. Or that just me?
roflmao http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1634
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:22:00 -
[1225] - Quote
I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." I admit, I just didn't think of the one glaring possibility that should be obvious to all. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
400
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:24:00 -
[1226] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." I admit, I just didn't think of the one glaring possibility that should be obvious to all.
He's not psychotic, he's dark side! http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4030
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:26:00 -
[1227] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." I admit, I just didn't think of the one glaring possibility that should be obvious to all.
"They'll have you in chains, with a number burned into your forehead!" Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1637
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:27:00 -
[1228] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." I admit, I just didn't think of the one glaring possibility that should be obvious to all. He's not psychotic, he's dark side!
You're right. I fixed it. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Michele Bachmann
Failed Diplomacy Failed-Diplomacy
38
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:28:00 -
[1229] - Quote
Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote:Tyrant Scorn wrote:Malcanis wrote: No I'm tired and I've had enough. If what I've already posted hasn't made the reality clear, then anything I post after this won't do it either.
I've earned my free holiday to Iceland, and you can all **** off and act like sensible human beings.
I believe I have not misbehaved. I was merely asking a question because I am genuinely interested in knowing the answer. You should have asked sooner then. Too bad. Ok, what ever dude...
treated
also your podcast sucks armpit juice. nobody wants to listen to elevator music for an hour straight underneath horrible questions and bullshit politickspeak |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
403
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:28:00 -
[1230] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." I admit, I just didn't think of the one glaring possibility that should be obvious to all. He's not psychotic, he's dark side! You're right. I fixed it.
oh hell, now youre a sociopath lol http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1206
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:34:00 -
[1231] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed."
Lets say i put a gun to someones head, and tell him unless he sings me a song i'll shoot him, if he starts singing did he then do it of his own free will?. He had two choices, he could sing or he could die. Most people would say i forced him, i guess you would says he just wanted to sing more then he wanted to die, and acted of his own free will.
If you are keeping all of someones in-game assets hostage, which he may have spend years gathering, it's probably not hard to make someone do all sorts of things willingly. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1637
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:43:00 -
[1232] - Quote
dexington wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." Lets say i put a gun to someones head, and tell him unless he sings me a song i'll shoot him, if he starts singing did he then do it of his own free will?. He had two choices, he could sing or he could die. Most people would say i forced him, i guess you would says he just wanted to sing more then he wanted to die, and acted of his own free will. If you are keeping all of someones in-game assets hostage, which he may have spend years gathering, it's probably not hard to make someone do all sorts of things willingly.
I thought about what you said, but then I realized something.
Then I also realized that I Suck at Photoshop. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
556
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:44:00 -
[1233] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how /thread They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
73
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:45:00 -
[1234] - Quote
The only torture happening is the tortured metaphors ITT. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4030
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:45:00 -
[1235] - Quote
dexington wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." Lets say i put a gun to someones head, and tell him unless he sings me a song i'll shoot him, if he starts singing did he then do it of his own free will?. He had two choices, he could sing or he could die. Most people would say i forced him, i guess you would says he just wanted to sing more then he wanted to die, and acted of his own free will. If you are keeping all of someones in-game assets hostage, which he may have spend years gathering, it's probably not hard to make someone do all sorts of things willingly.
This is the problem with you people.
You have been, and continue to equate pixels with real life activity.
Moreso when the closest analogy to what you just said "Sing or you die", is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE in this game, with plenty of precedent of that happening. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
403
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:45:00 -
[1236] - Quote
dexington wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." Lets say i put a gun to someones head, and tell him unless he sings me a song i'll shoot him, if he starts singing did he then do it of his own free will?. He had two choices, he could sing or he could die. Most people would say i forced him, i guess you would says he just wanted to sing more then he wanted to die, and acted of his own free will. If you are keeping all of someones in-game assets hostage, which he may have spend years gathering, it's probably not hard to make someone do all sorts of things willingly.
... GAME
gun to the head = IRL
I get the difference, do you? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
404
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:47:00 -
[1237] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:dexington wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." Lets say i put a gun to someones head, and tell him unless he sings me a song i'll shoot him, if he starts singing did he then do it of his own free will?. He had two choices, he could sing or he could die. Most people would say i forced him, i guess you would says he just wanted to sing more then he wanted to die, and acted of his own free will. If you are keeping all of someones in-game assets hostage, which he may have spend years gathering, it's probably not hard to make someone do all sorts of things willingly. This is the problem with you people. You have been, and continue to equate pixels with real life activity. Moreso when the closest analogy to what you just said "Sing or you die", is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE in this game, with plenty of precedent of that happening.
I get it!!!
I think I understand the WHOLE problem!
Its people who think EVE IS REAL. THATS why the guy getting scammed freaked out, thats why we keep seeing morons justify it with irl things like guns.
Because they really DONT know the difference. Ok guys, stop playing. Youre gonna hurt yourselves. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
stoicfaux
4318
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:48:00 -
[1238] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Okay, I'll give you the benefit of doubt.
Depends on the song. Which of these songs would CCP feel compelled to act over: Ice Ice Baby or the K K K anthem? Fair point, but then which is the offending part, asking for the song or singing it?
Quote:This doesn't really help much in regard to the situation. That seems more like what CCP should use to then relay the rules they deem fit to us. I think I see the problem, and I think I have a decent explanation: No one, not even CCP, knows what will get you banned.
But RMT is a known bannable offense you say? Hogwash! You get banned for RMT *if* you get caught and if CCP decides it's worth the time and effort to ban you. More importantly, you can get banned for *not* engaging in RMT due to a false positive. So there's no guarantee that following or breaking any particular rule will or won't get you banned.
More importantly, you need to realize that human rules, human laws, human policies, human EULAs, human ToS's are *not* absolute. People are fuzzy, which means enforcement of rules, laws, et. al., is also fuzzy. Do the cops arrest everyone who goes a mile (or km) over the posted speed limit? No. Perusing the news will reveal a myriad of cases involving selective enforcement of rules. If you talk to the right person, you will find that there's a lot of leeway in how, when, and for whom the rules are applied. You may think willfully bending/ignoring/breaking the rules is a bad thing, but strict, unyielding application of rules isn't a good idea either (as a 9 year girl found out when she was suspended for violating her school's dress code after shaving her head in support of a friend battling cancer.) Never mind that people's interpretation of the rules isn't consistent between people.
Since human rules are fuzzy in terms of definition, enforcement and consistency, no one can tell you where the line between banned and not-banned is. However, you can ask yourself the following: * What are the odds that my actions will offend CCP enough that they will ban me? * What are the odds that my actions will offend the public to the point that CCP will bow to public pressure to ban me?
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
404
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:49:00 -
[1239] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Okay, I'll give you the benefit of doubt.
Depends on the song. Which of these songs would CCP feel compelled to act over: Ice Ice Baby or the K K K anthem? Fair point, but then which is the offending part, asking for the song or singing it? Quote:This doesn't really help much in regard to the situation. That seems more like what CCP should use to then relay the rules they deem fit to us. I think I see the problem, and I think I have a decent explanation: No one, not even CCP, knows what will get you banned.But RMT is a known bannable offense you say? Hogwash! You get banned for RMT *if* you get caught and if CCP decides it's worth the time and effort to ban you. More importantly, you can get banned for *not* engaging in RMT due to a false positive. So there's no guarantee that following or breaking any particular rule will or won't get you banned. More importantly, you need to realize that human rules, human laws, human policies, human EULAs, human ToS's are *not* absolute. People are fuzzy, which means enforcement of rules, laws, et. al., is also fuzzy. Do the cops arrest everyone who goes a mile (or km) over the posted speed limit? No. Perusing the news will reveal a myriad of cases involving selective enforcement of rules. If you talk to the right person, you will find that there's a lot of leeway in how, when, and for whom the rules are applied. You may think willfully bending/ignoring/breaking the rules is a bad thing, but strict, unyielding application of rules isn't a good idea either (as a 9 year girl found out when she was suspended for violating her school's dress code after shaving her head in support of a friend battling cancer.) Never mind that people's interpretation of the rules isn't consistent between people. Since human rules are fuzzy in terms of definition, enforcement and consistency, no one can tell you where the line between banned and not-banned is. However, you can ask yourself the following: * What are the odds that my actions will offend CCP enough that they will ban me? * What are the odds that my actions will offend the public to the point that CCP will bow to public pressure to ban me?
So getting caught is bannable. HEY thats a good point right there
Quote: * What are the odds that my actions will offend CCP enough that they will ban me? * What are the odds that my actions will offend the public to the point that CCP will bow to public pressure to ban me?
For the past YEAR the odds of this happening doing exactly this were pretty slim. What changed? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
101
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:49:00 -
[1240] - Quote
Thankyou CCP for this statement and your continued pledge against harassment within your game. |
|
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
1642
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:50:00 -
[1241] - Quote
I found some more RL harassment. Trying to figure out who the proper authorities are to report it. I know violence isn't the answer. I got it wrong on purpose. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2910
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:50:00 -
[1242] - Quote
dexington wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." Lets say i put a gun to someones head, and tell him unless he sings me a song i'll shoot him, if he starts singing did he then do it of his own free will?. He had two choices, he could sing or he could die. Most people would say i forced him, i guess you would says he just wanted to sing more then he wanted to die, and acted of his own free will. If you are keeping all of someones in-game assets hostage, which he may have spend years gathering, it's probably not hard to make someone do all sorts of things willingly. He gave over the assets willingly too, so start to finish it was all his choice. This is not in dispute as the "victim" himself has confirmed this in no uncertain terms.
And if your in game assets are worth so much to you that you are willing to do things that make you uncomfortable out of game, you have serious problems. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
556
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:51:00 -
[1243] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You have been, and continue to equate pixels with real life activity. If it's just pixels, then give me all of your pixels. If you won't then clearly they aren't "just pixels".
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Moreso when the closest analogy to what you just said "Sing or you die", is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE in this game, with plenty of precedent of that happening. Look, you played, you lost. CCP 1 You 0. Be gracious in defeat friend. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1208
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:51:00 -
[1244] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I get it!!!
No you don't... and you are not even close. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
76
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:56:00 -
[1245] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote: If it's just pixels, then give me all of your pixels. If you won't then clearly they aren't "just pixels".
Sure thing. Come to my TS and sing me some songs. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
404
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:56:00 -
[1246] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:dexington wrote:Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:I couldn't figure out how a person who participated willingly at every step of the process could be "harassed." Lets say i put a gun to someones head, and tell him unless he sings me a song i'll shoot him, if he starts singing did he then do it of his own free will?. He had two choices, he could sing or he could die. Most people would say i forced him, i guess you would says he just wanted to sing more then he wanted to die, and acted of his own free will. If you are keeping all of someones in-game assets hostage, which he may have spend years gathering, it's probably not hard to make someone do all sorts of things willingly. He gave over the assets willingly too, so start to finish it was all his choice. This is not in dispute as the "victim" himself has confirmed this in no uncertain terms. And if your in game assets are worth so much to you that you are willing to do things that make you uncomfortable out of game, you have serious problems.
Better yet are the ppl who keep throwing the word freedom around to condemn this not like they even realize that the victim's freedom was never taken lol http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4035
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:57:00 -
[1247] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You have been, and continue to equate pixels with real life activity. If it's just pixels, then give me all of your pixels. If you won't then clearly they aren't "just pixels". Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Moreso when the closest analogy to what you just said "Sing or you die", is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE in this game, with plenty of precedent of that happening. Look, you played, you lost. CCP 1 You 0. Be gracious in defeat friend.
What are you talking about? People have ransomed developers on live streams for a song, and they never got banned.
That's what I'm trying to say. All you people saying "If you put a gun to their heads" are ignoring everything but whatever emotion is driving you forward.
I don't particularly care about E1. I just happen to really dislike the precedent this sets, where you can get someone banned by getting a big enough of a fuss started. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
404
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:57:00 -
[1248] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You have been, and continue to equate pixels with real life activity. If it's just pixels, then give me all of your pixels. If you won't then clearly they aren't "just pixels". Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Moreso when the closest analogy to what you just said "Sing or you die", is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE in this game, with plenty of precedent of that happening. Look, you played, you lost. CCP 1 You 0. Be gracious in defeat friend.
sure lemme log in
Oh wait, Im an alt, I dont have any
You can pretend I gave them though.
Here, get some peanut butter.... http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
404
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 02:59:00 -
[1249] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You have been, and continue to equate pixels with real life activity. If it's just pixels, then give me all of your pixels. If you won't then clearly they aren't "just pixels". Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Moreso when the closest analogy to what you just said "Sing or you die", is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE in this game, with plenty of precedent of that happening. Look, you played, you lost. CCP 1 You 0. Be gracious in defeat friend. What are you talking about? People have ransomed developers on live streams for a song, and they never got banned. That's what I'm trying to say. All you people saying "If you put a gun to their heads" are ignoring everything but whatever emotion is driving you forward. I don't particularly care about E1. I just happen to really dislike the precedent this sets, where you can get someone banned by getting a big enough of a fuss started.
Yeah, and PRETEND this **** wont happen lol
Wonder if we can get allianced banned if we get enough ppl together that they harassed us or touched us in bad places? Like the Goons are harassing all of High sec. We should get them banned XD http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4038
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:07:00 -
[1250] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Yeah, and PRETEND this **** wont happen lol
Wonder if we can get allianced banned if we get enough ppl together that they harassed us or touched us in bad places? Like the Goons are harassing all of High sec. We should get them banned XD
You should read Remiel's post on the matter, before it gets deleted.
Pretty clear at this point that there are no rules, it's just being made up and enforced arbitrarily. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
404
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:09:00 -
[1251] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Yeah, and PRETEND this **** wont happen lol
Wonder if we can get allianced banned if we get enough ppl together that they harassed us or touched us in bad places? Like the Goons are harassing all of High sec. We should get them banned XD
You should read Remiel's post on the matter, before it gets deleted. Pretty clear at this point that there are no rules, it's just being made up and enforced arbitrarily.
I think THATS pretty clear without reading a pot that says that lol http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4038
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:14:00 -
[1252] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Yeah, and PRETEND this **** wont happen lol
Wonder if we can get allianced banned if we get enough ppl together that they harassed us or touched us in bad places? Like the Goons are harassing all of High sec. We should get them banned XD
You should read Remiel's post on the matter, before it gets deleted. Pretty clear at this point that there are no rules, it's just being made up and enforced arbitrarily. I think THATS pretty clear without reading a pot that says that lol
Oh yes, but the point is that he actually got dox'ed, and a GM told him straight up that any third party cannot be taken into consideration.
Meanwhile, this thread.
Double standards much? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
832
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:20:00 -
[1253] - Quote
EVE Radio is quite interesting tonight.
Ripard Teg Refuses to go on the show with Erotica and Sohkar to discuss this. I wonder why? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
404
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:23:00 -
[1254] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:EVE Radio is quite interesting tonight.
Ripard Teg Refuses to go on the show with Erotica and Sohkar to discuss this. I wonder why?
lol GEE thats a surprise. I wouldnt either were I him lol
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Tyrant Scorn
163
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:24:00 -
[1255] - Quote
LIVE BROADCAST ON THIS: http://www.twitch.tv/everadiolive Host at Legacy Of A Capsuleer Podcast www.legacyofacapsuleer.com |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4039
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:26:00 -
[1256] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:EVE Radio is quite interesting tonight.
Ripard Teg Refuses to go on the show with Erotica and Sohkar to discuss this. I wonder why?
Because cowards like him can't do anything but hide behind their blog to sling mud.
Meanwhile, legitimate real life threats like are being made against Remiel Pollard are being ignored. Disgusting.
Ripard Teg should be ashamed of who he is. His alliance should be ashamed to have him.
And I'm ashamed to play the same game. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:30:00 -
[1257] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:EVE Radio is quite interesting tonight.
Ripard Teg Refuses to go on the show with Erotica and Sohkar to discuss this. I wonder why? Because cowards like him can't do anything but hide behind their blog to sling mud. Meanwhile, legitimate real life threats like are being made against Remiel Pollard are being ignored. Disgusting. Ripard Teg should be ashamed of who he is. His alliance should be ashamed to have him. And I'm ashamed to play the same game.
now now now, let's be sensible. aren't you overreacting?
Next you gnna quit too...
well plz send some stuff my way..
Thanks in advance! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
405
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:37:00 -
[1258] - Quote
This ought to be amazing tear collecting
LOL Sokhar says he should be banned too http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4040
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:40:00 -
[1259] - Quote
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:EVE Radio is quite interesting tonight.
Ripard Teg Refuses to go on the show with Erotica and Sohkar to discuss this. I wonder why? Because cowards like him can't do anything but hide behind their blog to sling mud. Meanwhile, legitimate real life threats like are being made against Remiel Pollard are being ignored. Disgusting. Ripard Teg should be ashamed of who he is. His alliance should be ashamed to have him. And I'm ashamed to play the same game. now now now, let's be sensible. aren't you overreacting? Next you gnna quit too... well plz send some stuff my way.. Thanks in advance!
If I quit, you lot win.
Instead, I'll take the Feyd route. Kill, maim, and harvest tears at an accelerated pace. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
405
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:43:00 -
[1260] - Quote
awwww that wasnt even worth the link, it was only 5 mins long :p http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
832
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:45:00 -
[1261] - Quote
Awaiting Ripard Tegs comments. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
405
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:47:00 -
[1262] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Awaiting Ripard Tegs comments.
Prolly playing the coward. We'll never hear anything from him. http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4043
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:47:00 -
[1263] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Awaiting Ripard Tegs comments.
Pretty sure the only thing we'll hear from him is some Mittens-level Smug, and then he'll duck the issue. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 03:49:00 -
[1264] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Jelani Akinyemi Affonso wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:EVE Radio is quite interesting tonight.
Ripard Teg Refuses to go on the show with Erotica and Sohkar to discuss this. I wonder why? Because cowards like him can't do anything but hide behind their blog to sling mud. Meanwhile, legitimate real life threats like are being made against Remiel Pollard are being ignored. Disgusting. Ripard Teg should be ashamed of who he is. His alliance should be ashamed to have him. And I'm ashamed to play the same game. now now now, let's be sensible. aren't you overreacting? Next you gnna quit too... well plz send some stuff my way.. Thanks in advance! If I quit, you lot win. Instead, I'll take the Feyd route. Kill, maim, and harvest tears at an accelerated pace.
I'm shedding a tear for you rite now bro...
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
833
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 04:07:00 -
[1265] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Awaiting Ripard Tegs comments. Pretty sure the only thing we'll hear from him is some Mittens-level Smug, and then he'll duck the issue.
Sad but true, sad but true. |
Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
97
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 04:26:00 -
[1266] - Quote
This conversation has clearly reached a conclusion. This thread has stopped growing at a rate that is almost impossible to keep up with. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
405
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 04:32:00 -
[1267] - Quote
Kethry Avenger wrote:This conversation has clearly reached a conclusion. This thread has stopped growing at a rate that is almost impossible to keep up with.
sad http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10919
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 05:22:00 -
[1268] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:You have been, and continue to equate pixels with real life activity. If it's just pixels, then give me all of your pixels. If you won't then clearly they aren't "just pixels". Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Moreso when the closest analogy to what you just said "Sing or you die", is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE in this game, with plenty of precedent of that happening. Look, you played, you lost. CCP 1 You 0. Be gracious in defeat friend. What are you talking about? People have ransomed developers on live streams for a song, and they never got banned. That's what I'm trying to say. All you people saying "If you put a gun to their heads" are ignoring everything but whatever emotion is driving you forward. I don't particularly care about E1. I just happen to really dislike the precedent this sets, where you can get someone banned by getting a big enough of a fuss started. Yeah, and PRETEND this **** wont happen lol Wonder if we can get allianced banned if we get enough ppl together that they harassed us or touched us in bad places? Like the Goons are harassing all of High sec. We should get them banned XD
They can try soon. Seems some white knighting scumbags from high sec need a lesson and not only are we at peace but there is also the first holicay season coming up... Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4620
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 05:42:00 -
[1269] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: scumbags from high sec
If there's one thing in this game that I can always count on, it's you managing to squeeze that into anything you post. Relevant or not.
You are my rock, Baltec.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5119
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 05:50:00 -
[1270] - Quote
Jagoff Haverford wrote:Gotta be honest. I can't tell what the hell this "announcement" is saying. Sure, harassment in "real life" is a bad thing. But I can't even tell, after reading this masterpiece of double-speak, if the Erotica 1/Sokhar incident is or is not considered harassment in "real life".
Every aspiring dictator and psychopath knows that you can't run an empire with hard and fast rules. You speak of generalities guidelines, and you maintain your position of power by being the only one with the authority to correctly interpret the guidelines in any particular scenario. Once you start laying down rules and drawing lines which people must not cross, you open yourself up to the boundary-pushers: the people who will intentionally cross lines in meaningless ways in order to challenge your authority.
So to maintain your authority and the absoluteness of your rule, you must necessarily be violent and arbitrary in the interpretation of the guidelines and the enforcement of your decisions. Otherwise you simply lose the respect of the people who have volunteered to be ruled by you.
Thus the statement from CCP is deliberately vague: the people who are clearly "over the line" know they're over the line and expect punishment, the people who are clearly "inside the line" know they're inside and are safe from punishment, while the people in the grey area will either retreat to safety or double down. Once that happens, the enforcers can prune off the people who doubled-down because they're clearly evil, rotten apples and the community is obviously better off without them around.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
|
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 05:58:00 -
[1271] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Jagoff Haverford wrote:Gotta be honest. I can't tell what the hell this "announcement" is saying. Sure, harassment in "real life" is a bad thing. But I can't even tell, after reading this masterpiece of double-speak, if the Erotica 1/Sokhar incident is or is not considered harassment in "real life". Every aspiring dictator and psychopath knows that you can't run an empire with hard and fast rules. You speak of generalities guidelines, and you maintain your position of power by being the only one with the authority to correctly interpret the guidelines in any particular scenario. Once you start laying down rules and drawing lines which people must not cross, you open yourself up to the boundary-pushers: the people who will intentionally cross lines in meaningless ways in order to challenge your authority. So to maintain your authority and the absoluteness of your rule, you must necessarily be violent and arbitrary in the interpretation of the guidelines and the enforcement of your decisions. Otherwise you simply lose the respect of the people who have volunteered to be ruled by you. Thus the statement from CCP is deliberately vague: the people who are clearly "over the line" know they're over the line and expect punishment, the people who are clearly "inside the line" know they're inside and are safe from punishment, while the people in the grey area will either retreat to safety or double down. Once that happens, the enforcers can prune off the people who doubled-down because they're clearly evil, rotten apples and the community is obviously better off without them around.
Well said Mara... it's almost funny how when things don't go their way, they start dancing on the head of a pin trying to justify painfully obvious wrongs. Not sure why. Inability to admit they simply are wrong??? Kind of scary in a way. Glad to see CCP gets it despite their angst to justify anything. "If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 06:00:00 -
[1272] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
They can try soon. Seems some white knighting scumbags from high sec need a lesson and not only are we at peace but there is also the first holicay season coming up...
I think the word you were looking for is 'Holiday'... not holicay.
"If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3083
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 06:11:00 -
[1273] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Thus the statement from CCP is deliberately vague: the people who are clearly "over the line" know they're over the line and expect punishment, the people who are clearly "inside the line" know they're inside and are safe from punishment, while the people in the grey area will either retreat to safety or double down. Once that happens, the enforcers can prune off the people who doubled-down because they're clearly evil, rotten apples and the community is obviously better off without them around. Nothing has changed as far as I'm concerned. The EULA is exactly the same as it was before, so unless anyone knows the exact reason for Erotica's ban, I think it's too early to start talking about imaginary lines that now exist where they didn't before. Oh god. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4080
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 06:18:00 -
[1274] - Quote
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:
Well said Mara... it's almost funny how when things don't go their way, they start dancing on the head of a pin trying to justify painfully obvious wrongs. Not sure why. Inability to admit they simply are wrong??? Kind of scary in a way. Glad to see CCP gets it despite their angst to justify anything.
Compared to what you people were doing? Screeching and yowling for the head of someone who had broken no rules in game?
At least none of us are spewing irl threats and racism, like so many in your camp of despicable excuses for human beings. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á
Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Triturus Alpestris
Boot Camp. CZECH Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 06:35:00 -
[1275] - Quote
I dont want to read all this, but is there some petition I can sign and support Erotica 1? |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4622
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 06:39:00 -
[1276] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Helena Russell Makanen wrote:
Well said Mara... it's almost funny how when things don't go their way, they start dancing on the head of a pin trying to justify painfully obvious wrongs. Not sure why. Inability to admit they simply are wrong??? Kind of scary in a way. Glad to see CCP gets it despite their angst to justify anything.
Compared to what you people were doing? Screeching and yowling for the head of someone who had broken no rules in game? At least none of us are spewing irl threats and racism, like so many in your camp of despicable excuses for human beings.
I'm detecting some serious madGäó going on right here.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1163
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 06:47:00 -
[1277] - Quote
TIL You can get banned from EVE if enough people don't like you. AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2135
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 06:57:00 -
[1278] - Quote
MajorBean wrote:With that ban our loved sandbox lost alot of sand, Erotica 1 you will be remembered.
Some will consider that a bit of poop has been removed from the sand. This is not a signature. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3084
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:00:00 -
[1279] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Some will consider that a bit of poop has been removed from the sand. Some are now viewing the CSM as the bit of poop in the sand.
Oh god. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4622
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:02:00 -
[1280] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Some will consider that a bit of poop has been removed from the sand. Some are now viewing the CSM as the bit of poop in the sand.
Some of us always have. Can't say I'd be disappointed if they ended that failed experiment. But that's a topic for another day.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
|
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3084
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:04:00 -
[1281] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Some will consider that a bit of poop has been removed from the sand. Some are now viewing the CSM as the bit of poop in the sand. Some of us always have. Can't say I'd be disappointed if they ended that failed experiment. But that's a topic for another day. Mr Epeen At least we're in agreement on that point.
Oh god. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1351
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:15:00 -
[1282] - Quote
Really not sure what to think about this.
Part of me thinks that CCP taking action against this type of abuse discourages people from seeking legal recourse (which after all the cyberbullying hysteria of the past years should be available in many places) as the matter has already been dealt with in their minds (albeit by the completely wrong instance). This is a matter for the courts not for CCP to police. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
1010
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:19:00 -
[1283] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Some will consider that a bit of poop has been removed from the sand. Others will consider that there is a hell of a lot still left to be removed and will go about their normal gameplay trying to do just that.
The pendulum never remains still, so I predict a response to this that will see an increase in bumping, ganking, awoxing and scamming.
Whatever Ripard's intentions were, he could very well have been the catalyst not only for the removal of a high profile member of that part of the community, but also to motivate the "villains" in the game to ramp it up in highsec even more.
Whatever the outcome, it will involve plenty of content. .. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2135
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:21:00 -
[1284] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:baltec1 wrote: scumbags from high sec If there's one thing in this game that I can always count on, it's you managing to squeeze that into anything you post. Relevant or not. You are my rock, Baltec. Mr Epeen
This made me smile This is not a signature. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4624
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:23:00 -
[1285] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:This is a matter for the courts not for CCP to police.
The simple answer to that is CCP wants to stay off the general public's radar. They need to be seen as a company that separates in game from out of game.
The last thing they need is to suddenly find themselves legislated into a WOW level game because something got out of hand. And it's the last thing I want to see happen as well. I like this lovable bunch of asshats I share the game with. I don't want to see anything in game changed.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2135
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:24:00 -
[1286] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Some will consider that a bit of poop has been removed from the sand. Some are now viewing the CSM as the bit of poop in the sand.
I would rather have the CSM than not, but I cannot say that I am a great fan of it.
This is not a signature. |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
327
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:31:00 -
[1287] - Quote
One last word to the OP... |
Sarel Hendar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:33:00 -
[1288] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:
Every aspiring dictator and psychopath knows that you can't run an empire with hard and fast rules. You speak of generalities guidelines, and you maintain your position of power by being the only one with the authority to correctly interpret the guidelines in any particular scenario. Once you start laying down rules and drawing lines which people must not cross, you open yourself up to the boundary-pushers: the people who will intentionally cross lines in meaningless ways in order to challenge your authority.
So to maintain your authority and the absoluteness of your rule, you must necessarily be violent and arbitrary in the interpretation of the guidelines and the enforcement of your decisions. Otherwise you simply lose the respect of the people who have volunteered to be ruled by you.
Thus the statement from CCP is deliberately vague: the people who are clearly "over the line" know they're over the line and expect punishment, the people who are clearly "inside the line" know they're inside and are safe from punishment, while the people in the grey area will either retreat to safety or double down. Once that happens, the enforcers can prune off the people who doubled-down because they're clearly evil, rotten apples and the community is obviously better off without them around.
Beautiful. That's one insight crystallizing a lot about power dynamics I've followed both in RL, EvE and other RPGs. |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1164
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:36:00 -
[1289] - Quote
Hey guys there's a line.
We won't tell you where the line is.
But there's a line.
We'll let you know when you cross it.
But we won't tell you at which point you crossed it.
Just that you have.
There's a line guys, and Big Brother is watching your TeamSpeak servers very closely. AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
327
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:44:00 -
[1290] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Hey guys there's a line.
We won't tell you where the line is.
But there's a line.
We'll let you know when you cross it.
But we won't tell you at which point you crossed it.
Just that you have.
There's a line guys, and Big Brother is watching your TeamSpeak servers very closely.
Is this serious?
CCP invited us to use our common sense in that case. Do you know what that is? Is that so hard to understand/use? |
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
568
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:47:00 -
[1291] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Meanwhile, legitimate real life threats like are being made against Remiel Pollard are being ignored. Disgusting. If this was true then surely he has contacted the RL authorities in his area to protect his family?
I mean, it's a bit cheap that he's like MY FAMILY IS THREATENED - I HAVE TO QUIT EVE
But I will come back if you unban Erotica1!!!! (Suddenly not very concerned about threats to family).
So if Remiel got real threats to his family which he thinks could lead to harm or danger then surely he's contacted someone other than a CCP GM. Right? They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4632
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:51:00 -
[1292] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Xuixien wrote:Hey guys there's a line.
We won't tell you where the line is.
But there's a line.
We'll let you know when you cross it.
But we won't tell you at which point you crossed it.
Just that you have.
There's a line guys, and Big Brother is watching your TeamSpeak servers very closely. Is this serious? CCP invited us to use our common sense in that case. Do you know what that is? Is that so hard to understand/use?
He's a one trick pony and can safely be ignored.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
840
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:52:00 -
[1293] - Quote
Ban Ripard Teg!
That is all. |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
327
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:53:00 -
[1294] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Xuixien wrote:Hey guys there's a line.
We won't tell you where the line is.
But there's a line.
We'll let you know when you cross it.
But we won't tell you at which point you crossed it.
Just that you have.
There's a line guys, and Big Brother is watching your TeamSpeak servers very closely. Is this serious? CCP invited us to use our common sense in that case. Do you know what that is? Is that so hard to understand/use? He's a one trick pony and can safely be ignored. Mr Epeen
Ah sorry, did not know. Thank you for info. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4632
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 07:54:00 -
[1295] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Ban Ripard Teg!
That is all.
Ban Eroti... oh... never mind.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 08:01:00 -
[1296] - Quote
W space residents frequently evict corporations and alliances that do not PVP. So if we gank some w space dwellers, they cry about it in local, and then we decide to invade their system and evict them are we going to get banned for it? It will take days to get enough ships in system, and grinding down towers will take at least a day, during which we will be "torturing" those poor "victims" who have already let us know that we are doing emotional harm to them...
Sorry CCP, but I think you've set a bad precedent with this one. I don't agree with what Erotica 1, or any of the miner bumping crowd, does -it's the real world equivalent of going to a play ground and beating up special needs kids. But Eve is a sandbox, and if you want to keep it that way then it's tough to set limits on what people do as long as their conduct isn't illegal. Everyone is talking about Erotica 1 like he's some kind of mass murderer, and yet the death threats made by Sokar aren't even mentioned at all by CCP !?
Eve is a tough game and we are all hear because we like to bite the pillow. If people want to play in a theme park MMO then WoW is that way --> Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
327
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 08:07:00 -
[1297] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:W space residents frequently evict corporations and alliances that do not PVP. So if we gank some w space dwellers, they cry about it in local, and then we decide to invade their system and evict them are we going to get banned for it? It will take days to get enough ships in system, and grinding down towers will take at least a day, during which we will be "torturing" those poor "victims" who have already let us know that we are doing emotional harm to them...
Sorry CCP, but I think you've set a bad precedent with this one. I don't agree with what Erotica 1, or any of the miner bumping crowd, does -it's the real world equivalent of going to a play ground and beating up special needs kids. But Eve is a sandbox, and if you want to keep it that way then it's tough to set limits on what people do as long as their conduct isn't illegal. Everyone is talking about Erotica 1 like he's some kind of mass murderer, and yet the death threats made by Sokar aren't even mentioned at all by CCP !?
Eve is a tough game and we are all hear because we like to bite the pillow. If people want to play in a theme park MMO then WoW is that way -->
Aching muscles because of permanent facepalming... |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 08:10:00 -
[1298] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Dorn Val wrote:W space residents frequently evict corporations and alliances that do not PVP. So if we gank some w space dwellers, they cry about it in local, and then we decide to invade their system and evict them are we going to get banned for it? It will take days to get enough ships in system, and grinding down towers will take at least a day, during which we will be "torturing" those poor "victims" who have already let us know that we are doing emotional harm to them...
Sorry CCP, but I think you've set a bad precedent with this one. I don't agree with what Erotica 1, or any of the miner bumping crowd, does -it's the real world equivalent of going to a play ground and beating up special needs kids. But Eve is a sandbox, and if you want to keep it that way then it's tough to set limits on what people do as long as their conduct isn't illegal. Everyone is talking about Erotica 1 like he's some kind of mass murderer, and yet the death threats made by Sokar aren't even mentioned at all by CCP !?
Eve is a tough game and we are all hear because we like to bite the pillow. If people want to play in a theme park MMO then WoW is that way --> Aching muscles because of permanent facepalming...
Ok, why? I've made a perfectly valid point, and if the community doesn't like how someone is playing them maybe the community needs to get off of its collective backside and do something about it instead of pressuring CCP to take action. Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4633
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 08:10:00 -
[1299] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:. So if we gank some w space dwellers, they cry about it in local,
Local? LOL
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2136
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 08:11:00 -
[1300] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Ban Ripard Teg!
That is all.
This is not a signature. |
|
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 08:12:00 -
[1301] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Dorn Val wrote:. So if we gank some w space dwellers, they cry about it in local, Local? LOL Mr Epeen
Local exists in W space -you just won't show up in it unless you're stupid enough to chat :) Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
327
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 08:19:00 -
[1302] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Dorn Val wrote:W space residents frequently evict corporations and alliances that do not PVP. So if we gank some w space dwellers, they cry about it in local, and then we decide to invade their system and evict them are we going to get banned for it? It will take days to get enough ships in system, and grinding down towers will take at least a day, during which we will be "torturing" those poor "victims" who have already let us know that we are doing emotional harm to them...
Sorry CCP, but I think you've set a bad precedent with this one. I don't agree with what Erotica 1, or any of the miner bumping crowd, does -it's the real world equivalent of going to a play ground and beating up special needs kids. But Eve is a sandbox, and if you want to keep it that way then it's tough to set limits on what people do as long as their conduct isn't illegal. Everyone is talking about Erotica 1 like he's some kind of mass murderer, and yet the death threats made by Sokar aren't even mentioned at all by CCP !?
Eve is a tough game and we are all hear because we like to bite the pillow. If people want to play in a theme park MMO then WoW is that way --> Aching muscles because of permanent facepalming... Ok, why? I've made a perfectly valid point, and if the community doesn't like how someone is playing them maybe the community needs to get off of its collective backside and do something about it instead of pressuring CCP to take action.
Why? Here!
That makes it perfectly clear. However, I can't use your common sense for you. |
Abulurd Boniface
The Scope Gallente Federation
99
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 08:22:00 -
[1303] - Quote
CCP can't open themselves up claims they allow for the kind of behaviour that [I hear, but am not sure of] got E1 banned.
To the point where E1 got someone to give him all his assets, by just handing it over, I stand in awe that someone could do that. Who in their right mind would do something like that? What is the psychology at work here? How can pilot 1 give pilot 2 all his stuff by simple request? I don't get it. They got scammed hard. Eat your lumps, move on.
The way the 'out of client' experience works... I have a big problem with that. It would be something else if it was a bit of a ribbing, that's part of the experience, but to draw out the proceedings to the point where the guy snaps... that's not cool. It really isn't. It shouldn't be about that.
E1 is a skilled operator. Operator being the operating word. The things he does and the way he does them indicates someone who has professional experience in that space. He could either be a psychologist, a psychiatrist or be a [former] CIA operator. Finding people's buttons and then pushing them is what he does for a living. There is something disturbing on a deeper level by the way this was done. And it went one way only.
I heard about the 'sing for ransom' demands and I think they are hilarious, I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with a need for exacting real emotional pain from people, in a process designed for that purpose only.
It can't be about that, people. That is not what I log on for.
On the other hand, this is an extreme outlier. You hear about it because it is such a unique event. This happens rarely. The EVE population being what it is, maybe the likelihood of sociopaths gathering is what should be expected. Even then there's plenty of nefarious shenanigans to be had inside the client that we don't have to make it about psychological punishment.
Having said that, and it has been mentioned in various places, there was absolutely -nothing- stopping the pilot receiving the treatment from pulling the plug on the experience at any time. Do keep that in mind. E1 never had more control over him than what he allowed for by his own greed. At any point in the experience he could have concluded for himself "I'm doing something really really stupid here and I'm letting my own weakness get the better of me." That would have been a growing experience for him. To see that by his own actions, let's not forget that, he gave 'control' of sorts over what happens in his life over to someone else to exploit. You can sit back, in the moment, and reflect on that and say to yourself "This is not happening to me. It stops right here and now, and I consider the ISK lost as the price of the lesson." The guy has a wife. He should know by now that 'stupid' has consequences.
EVE is about deciding what your future will be like. Your decisions, your choice. If you see that someone is making undue claims about that, it's time to rethink the strategy and do something new.
I don't know really what people expect CCP to do in these circumstances. They can't be the police force, we don't want them to be the police force. Strictu sensu, as far as I can judge with limited information, E1 didn't even break the EULA since what people take offence to happened outside of the environment, admittedly directly related to the environment.
If it had been something that the 'victim' could not get away from, physical hostage taking, hacking the computer, the client, anything with direct access to the other person, I'd have a really big problem with that. Here, all it took was "Ok, I'm sick of this and I had enough. I'm done.", if he wanted to say something at all. What does it say about you as a person if you can't make that decision for yourself as an adult? Is it CCP's fault if you can't handle yourself? Is it, in the end, E1's fault that you go along with absolutely everything he asks for?
I don't know what my future in EVE will be, I hope it's long and full of shenanigans, but I promise you right here and now, and you can copy/paste me on it, that nobody will ever do this to me. There is a limit to my greed, there is a limit to what I will accept as treatment, there are boundaries for myself and others. If I have to explain to an adult that you don't invite someone to your home, give them all your stuff and then tell them "Here, that's everything. Now you decide what happens", I really don't know what to tell you.
As a parting gift I also want to offer the fact that illuminating this issue is also a way to do politics. With shaping the future of EVE. For my part I want it to be as dark as possible. The murky depths of the soul are the sea I want to fish in. I hope EVE does not lose that character to people who only want to fly their spaceships and want to be left alone. These people should visit Star Citizen. You can get a hangar these days, and sit in your shiny ship. You also don't need to worry about lots of bad people attacking you, the server can't handle it.
/He gave him all his assets. All of it. Can you believe that? |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
327
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 08:34:00 -
[1304] - Quote
Abulurd Boniface wrote: I don't know what my future in EVE will be, I hope it's long and full of shenanigans, but I promise you right here and now, and you can copy/paste me on it, that nobody will ever do this to me. There is a limit to my greed, there is a limit to what I will accept as treatment, there are boundaries for myself and others. If I have to explain to an adult that you don't invite someone to your home, give them all your stuff and then tell them "Here, that's everything. Now you decide what happens", I really don't know what to tell you.
/He gave him all his assets. All of it. Can you believe that?
The main social phenomenon here is, or maybe it's a way of individualism or modern internet forum culture, that 90% of people can only reflect their own point of view on the behaviour of a person who was in a very awkward situation (like sakhor). No sense of empathy; maybe that is something like a gift you have or you don't. Maybe it's something you can't blame anyone who does not seem to have empathic abilities, because you simply can't learn it.
Obviously nowadays it's not modern anymore to have a feeling for social situations and interactions and having the ability to see both sides of the medal. Hey, i am not a teacher or psychologist. I am microbiologist =D . Internet forum culture is very narrow minded and very egoisticly touched.
It's nothing personal against you, if you feel so, I apologize for that. |
Salvos Rhoska
880
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 09:14:00 -
[1305] - Quote
If you dont like the statement, or the decisions made, you can leave.
Nothing is stopping you. ------------ |
Isky von Purps
Caldari Solutions
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 09:36:00 -
[1306] - Quote
Maybe CCP just got sick of being the guy who crosses the road when they see a dog getting beaten with a stick.
Morality transcends legal responsibility, rights and the provisions of the EULA. It has been interesting to see the almost universal amorality of the comments against CCP's statement.
|
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
332
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 09:42:00 -
[1307] - Quote
Isky von Purps wrote: It has been interesting to see the almost universal amorality of the comments against CCP's statement.
Internet youth culture |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 09:54:00 -
[1308] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Dorn Val wrote:W space residents frequently evict corporations and alliances that do not PVP. So if we gank some w space dwellers, they cry about it in local, and then we decide to invade their system and evict them are we going to get banned for it? It will take days to get enough ships in system, and grinding down towers will take at least a day, during which we will be "torturing" those poor "victims" who have already let us know that we are doing emotional harm to them...
Sorry CCP, but I think you've set a bad precedent with this one. I don't agree with what Erotica 1, or any of the miner bumping crowd, does -it's the real world equivalent of going to a play ground and beating up special needs kids. But Eve is a sandbox, and if you want to keep it that way then it's tough to set limits on what people do as long as their conduct isn't illegal. Everyone is talking about Erotica 1 like he's some kind of mass murderer, and yet the death threats made by Sokar aren't even mentioned at all by CCP !?
Eve is a tough game and we are all hear because we like to bite the pillow. If people want to play in a theme park MMO then WoW is that way --> Aching muscles because of permanent facepalming... Ok, why? I've made a perfectly valid point, and if the community doesn't like how someone is playing them maybe the community needs to get off of its collective backside and do something about it instead of pressuring CCP to take action. Why? Here!That makes it perfectly clear. However, I can't use your common sense for you.
Go back and read Trebor's post again and ask yourself if ganking someone again, after they have already gone ballistic in local once, is now against the rules? My common sense tells me that it is, but no one on the CSM or at CCP will spell it out. There are a lot of people playing this game just to get "tears" but it seems to me that pushing someone to the point where they snap is now against the rules. So how long before suicide ganking, scamming in trade hubs, etc. is also banned. Where does it end.
Also keep in mind that the "victim" willingly participated in Erotic 1's twisted game. A real torture victim is restrained and has no choice...
I really think that common sense went completely out the window when Jester made a big deal out of all this on his blog. He wrote that piece on Erotica1 knowing how the high sec care bear community was going to respond, and it was tabloid journalism at its finest -deserving of a slow golf clap...
Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
MajorBean
The Scope Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 09:56:00 -
[1309] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:If you dont like the statement, or the decisions made, you can leave.
Nothing is stopping you.
If you dont like emergent gameplay, or the sandbox, you can leave.
Nothing is stopping you.
|
Salvos Rhoska
880
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 09:58:00 -
[1310] - Quote
MajorBean wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:If you dont like the statement, or the decisions made, you can leave.
Nothing is stopping you. If you dont like emergent gameplay, or the sandbox, you can leave. Nothing is stopping you.
I'm ok with this, and happily staying :) ------------ |
|
Bunnie Hop
518
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 09:59:00 -
[1311] - Quote
If this is a game where 'emergent gameplay' is a blanket for any type of anti social destructive behaviour, then there is a problem. The anonymity of the internet sure has eroded morals. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4141
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:01:00 -
[1312] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:
Go back and read Trebor's post again and ask yourself if ganking someone again, after they have already gone ballistic in local once, is now against the rules?
As for me, I honestly don't care. There doesn't get to be a "hissy fit shield".
If you don't want to get ganked, then you know what to do. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:06:00 -
[1313] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:If this is a game where 'emergent gameplay' is a blanket for any type of anti social destructive behaviour, then there is a problem. The anonymity of the internet sure has eroded morals.
Eve is more simulation than game. I firmly believe that if you put people into the same environment as Pod pilots you'd have exactly what we now have in the "game".
Last, but certainly not least, if you do not like what someone in Eve is doing then get together with a group of like minded people and do something in game about it other than cry to CCP to change the rules. Unfortunately crying seems to be the prevalent form of emergent game play lately... Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:06:00 -
[1314] - Quote
[quote=MajorBean
If you dont like emergent gameplay, or the sandbox, you can leave.
Nothing is stopping you.
[/quote]
and if you don't like the way CCP, the owners of the sandbox keep it you can leave too and take your tears with you before the sand becomes too wet for the rest of us to continue playing in |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:07:00 -
[1315] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dorn Val wrote:
Go back and read Trebor's post again and ask yourself if ganking someone again, after they have already gone ballistic in local once, is now against the rules?
As for me, I honestly don't care. There doesn't get to be a "hissy fit shield". If you don't want to get ganked, then you know what to do.
...and that is exactly my point: if you don't like something then do something about it other than cry to CCP... Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Bunnie Hop
518
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:14:00 -
[1316] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:If this is a game where 'emergent gameplay' is a blanket for any type of anti social destructive behaviour, then there is a problem. The anonymity of the internet sure has eroded morals. Eve is more simulation than game. I firmly believe that if you put people into the same environment as Pod pilots you'd have exactly what we now have in the "game". Last, but certainly not least, if you do not like what someone in Eve is doing then get together with a group of like minded people and do something in game about it other than cry to CCP to change the rules. Unfortunately crying seems to be the prevalent form of emergent game play lately...
I never cried, I expressed my view. You are such a clich+½ though. As for changing the rules, I think CCP merely enforced the rules as they saw them. But keep beating the emergent gameplay drum like the other Mittiminions, do it enough and you will believe it yourself. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1271
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:20:00 -
[1317] - Quote
So let me get this straight, a very famous EvE Online blogger that's also a member of the CSM used his influence and power to start a witch-hunt on another player, for something that happened outside of the game that he condemns. In is moral high ground blog he harassed and persecuted the player, until a shitstorm thread started on the EvE Online forums, where he continued the witchcraft trial. The thread was closed and the player got banned.
This makes total sense to me... The Tears Must Flow |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:24:00 -
[1318] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote: I think CCP merely enforced the rules as they saw them.
...by banning someone who didn't violate an existing rule (Erotica 1, and then did nothing to a player that made death threats (Sokar).
For the record: I am not a griefer, suicide ganker, or scammer on this character or via any alts. I will defend all forms of game play though because Eve is supposed to be a sandbox. The duality of that box of sand is spelled out in my signature... Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Bunnie Hop
519
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:27:00 -
[1319] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:So let me get this straight, a very famous EvE Online blogger that's also a member of the CSM used his influence and power to start a witch-hunt on another player, for something that happened outside of the game that he condemns. In is moral high ground blog he harassed and persecuted the player, until a shitstorm thread started on the EvE Online forums, where he continued the witchcraft trial. The thread was closed and the player got banned.
This makes total sense to me...
Well that is a subjective way to view it, and a bit limited as well. It was just cause and effect, the cause being a players abuse of another in a way which broke every rule of decency and gameplay, the effect which you elude to happened because of that. Don't put the cart before the horse. |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:30:00 -
[1320] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:So let me get this straight, a very famous EvE Online blogger that's also a member of the CSM used his influence and power to start a witch-hunt on another player, for something that happened outside of the game that he condemns. In is moral high ground blog he harassed and persecuted the player, until a shitstorm thread started on the EvE Online forums, where he continued the witchcraft trial. The thread was closed and the player got banned.
This makes total sense to me...
Pretty much sums it up. I'm now waiting for Rote Kapelle to change their killboard logo. Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
|
Bunnie Hop
519
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:32:00 -
[1321] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote: I think CCP merely enforced the rules as they saw them.
...by banning someone who didn't violate an existing rule (Erotica 1, and then did nothing to a player that made death threats (Sokar). For the record: I am not a griefer, suicide ganker, or scammer on this character or via any alts. I will defend all forms of game play though because Eve is supposed to be a sandbox. The duality of that box of sand is spelled out in my signature...
I condone griefers and gankers and any other way people find to blow up spaceships and take ISK, its all part of Eve. But when it goes beyond that, which in this case it clearly did, we need to stand together and say 'not here, not in the game we love' and put an end to it. I find Sohkars reaction a bit puzzling but not shocking, alot of people snap under such strain. But that is aside the point, Eve should remain a game in new eden, not one that spills onto other media forms and turns to harassment. That is just my view, I don't want to argue it, I just wanted to express it. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1272
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:32:00 -
[1322] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:So let me get this straight, a very famous EvE Online blogger that's also a member of the CSM used his influence and power to start a witch-hunt on another player, for something that happened outside of the game that he condemns. In is moral high ground blog he harassed and persecuted the player, until a shitstorm thread started on the EvE Online forums, where he continued the witchcraft trial. The thread was closed and the player got banned.
This makes total sense to me... Well that is a subjective way to view it, and a bit limited as well. It was just cause and effect, the cause being a players abuse of another in a way which broke every rule of decency and gameplay, the effect which you elude to happened because of that. Don't put the cart before the horse.
Again more moral high ground BS arguments, this events all took place outside of the game. Let's also ban players from EvE Online that get drunk and then beat their wifes. Or ban players that use iphones, i hate iphone and everyone that uses them should be banned. The Tears Must Flow |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
242
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:35:00 -
[1323] - Quote
Events took place outside the game cause the "Victim" Thought he could get his "In-Game" stuff back from the schemer which made the victim thought so.
Very simple when you think of it. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1753
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:35:00 -
[1324] - Quote
Isky von Purps wrote:Maybe CCP just got sick of being the guy who crosses the road when they see a dog getting beaten with a stick. Morality transcends legal responsibility, rights and the provisions of the EULA. It has been interesting to see the almost universal amorality of the comments against CCP's statement.
That's a good way to look at it, problem is dogs will continue to get beat with a stick and one feel good moment won't stop that.
The root cause of all this is villainy (scamming in particular) being allowed and encouraged in the first place, and as long as that's true people will find more creative and nastier ways to play the bad guy.
So, maybe this imaginary line in the sand will protect the naive and weak in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4657
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:36:00 -
[1325] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:So let me get this straight, a very famous EvE Online blogger that's also a member of the CSM used his influence and power to start a witch-hunt on another player, for something that happened outside of the game that he condemns. In is moral high ground blog he harassed and persecuted the player, until a shitstorm thread started on the EvE Online forums, where he continued the witchcraft trial. The thread was closed and the player got banned.
This makes total sense to me...
I prefer to think of it as he made the player base aware of what a raging psychopath was up to in the game we all play.
But sure, if you prefer the term witch hunt, then whatever.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
336
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:41:00 -
[1326] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote: I think CCP merely enforced the rules as they saw them.
...by banning someone who didn't violate an existing rule (Erotica 1), and then did nothing to a player that made death threats (Sokar).
Again. Listen to the audio record, read shitstorm threadnaught, think, think again, puzzle together a very individual point of view before going with the narrow minded Ero defender thought-terminating clich+¬. Then, try to argue looking on both sides of the medal. Go! |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
242
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:42:00 -
[1327] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I prefer to think of it as he made the player base aware of what a raging psychopath was up to in the game we all play. But sure, if you prefer the term witch hunt, then whatever. Mr Epeen
pretty much.. I play Eve for year +- and I was never aware people did such things until I read that blog post. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:42:00 -
[1328] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote: I think CCP merely enforced the rules as they saw them.
...by banning someone who didn't violate an existing rule (Erotica 1, and then did nothing to a player that made death threats (Sokar). For the record: I am not a griefer, suicide ganker, or scammer on this character or via any alts. I will defend all forms of game play though because Eve is supposed to be a sandbox. The duality of that box of sand is spelled out in my signature... I condone griefers and gankers and any other way people find to blow up spaceships and take ISK, its all part of Eve. But when it goes beyond that, which in this case it clearly did, we need to stand together and say 'not here, not in the game we love' and put an end to it. I find Sohkars reaction a bit puzzling but not shocking, alot of people snap under such strain. But that is aside the point, Eve should remain a game in new eden, not one that spills onto other media forms and turns to harassment. That is just my view, I don't want to argue it, I just wanted to express it. (by griefers I mean within the CCP ruleset of gameplay, not by directed harassment).
But it wasn't harassment -Sokar volunteered to play Erotica 1's sick game.
Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm. Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Bunnie Hop
520
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:46:00 -
[1329] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote: I think CCP merely enforced the rules as they saw them.
...by banning someone who didn't violate an existing rule (Erotica 1, and then did nothing to a player that made death threats (Sokar). For the record: I am not a griefer, suicide ganker, or scammer on this character or via any alts. I will defend all forms of game play though because Eve is supposed to be a sandbox. The duality of that box of sand is spelled out in my signature... I condone griefers and gankers and any other way people find to blow up spaceships and take ISK, its all part of Eve. But when it goes beyond that, which in this case it clearly did, we need to stand together and say 'not here, not in the game we love' and put an end to it. I find Sohkars reaction a bit puzzling but not shocking, alot of people snap under such strain. But that is aside the point, Eve should remain a game in new eden, not one that spills onto other media forms and turns to harassment. That is just my view, I don't want to argue it, I just wanted to express it. (by griefers I mean within the CCP ruleset of gameplay, not by directed harassment). But it wasn't harassment -Sokar volunteered to play Erotica 1's sick game. Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm.
Well honestly the only thing making me go 'hmmm' is why I am still posting on a dead topic. CCP made the proper choice, the sun is shining and I have no desire to debate anything with you. I wish you well.
|
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:47:00 -
[1330] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote: I think CCP merely enforced the rules as they saw them.
...by banning someone who didn't violate an existing rule (Erotica 1), and then did nothing to a player that made death threats (Sokar). Again. Listen to the audio record, read shitstorm threadnaught, think, think again, puzzle together a very individual point of view before going with the narrow minded Ero defender thought-terminating clich+¬. Then, try to argue looking on both sides of the medal. Go!
Actually I have done that and I reached the conclusions that have driven my posts. I still do not agree with how this situation was handled. Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
93
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:47:00 -
[1331] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote: Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm.
Well - the nuggest here is "Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule?". Basically it's what the rules say and how CCP interpret them that matters - your opinion of them is irrelevant. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
245
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:48:00 -
[1332] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote: But it wasn't harassment -Sokar volunteered to play Erotica 1's sick game.
Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm.
Ero1 got all the stuff from that dude BEFORE the game started, are there any proofs online for that bonus room actually yielding winners? actual APIs showing facts and numbers and not random alts posting replies? We don't have those, as far as I know. so we take classic eve scammer approach and we say that the scam was concluded as soon that the victim gave all of his stuff to Ero1 and then we ask why to run this bonus room for over 2 hours when no further gain can be made in in-game assets? for Lol'z and Giggles for the scammer.
what's the point then?
"What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2912
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:49:00 -
[1333] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Why? Here!That makes it perfectly clear. However, I can't use your common sense for you. The problem is that all fine until it isn't. You'll use your common sense and you'll be playing along all fine, then one day you'll encounter the wrong person, then without even getting the chance to find out why, you're gone. It seems to me more like the rule is "don't **** people off too much, based on the level of tolerance the random person on the other end of the game has (who you don't know), and the tolerance of the GM that receives the ticket (who you also don't know)".
So to really use common sense and avoid getting banned entirely, you realistically have to stop all songs for ransoms and the like, since there's no way to tell if you are going to get banned for it. So why don't they just say that. Just rule it out entirely and be done with it. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2039
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:49:00 -
[1334] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote: I think CCP merely enforced the rules as they saw them.
...by banning someone who didn't violate an existing rule (Erotica 1, and then did nothing to a player that made death threats (Sokar). For the record: I am not a griefer, suicide ganker, or scammer on this character or via any alts. I will defend all forms of game play though because Eve is supposed to be a sandbox. The duality of that box of sand is spelled out in my signature... I condone griefers and gankers and any other way people find to blow up spaceships and take ISK, its all part of Eve. But when it goes beyond that, which in this case it clearly did, we need to stand together and say 'not here, not in the game we love' and put an end to it. I find Sohkars reaction a bit puzzling but not shocking, alot of people snap under such strain. But that is aside the point, Eve should remain a game in new eden, not one that spills onto other media forms and turns to harassment. That is just my view, I don't want to argue it, I just wanted to express it. (by griefers I mean within the CCP ruleset of gameplay, not by directed harassment). But it wasn't harassment -Sokar volunteered to play Erotica 1's sick game. Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm. Because - customers who play eve are more important than meta-gaming scammers who never undock and who only work hard at making people quit and harming CCPs reputation? Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:50:00 -
[1335] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Well honestly the only thing making me go 'hmmm' is why I am still posting on a dead topic. CCP made the proper choice, the sun is shining and I have no desire to debate anything with you. I wish you well.
Fly safe :) Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:52:00 -
[1336] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Dorn Val wrote: Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm.
Well - the nuggest here is " Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule?". Basically it's what the rules say and how CCP interpret them that matters - your opinion of them is irrelevant.
...and that's all fine and good until they ban you for something not clearly defined... :) Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
93
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:53:00 -
[1337] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Why? Here!That makes it perfectly clear. However, I can't use your common sense for you. The problem is that all fine until it isn't. You'll use your common sense and you'll be playing along all fine, then one day you'll encounter the wrong person, then without even getting the chance to find out why, you're gone. It seems to me more like the rule is "don't **** people off too much, based on the level of tolerance the random person on the other end of the game has (who you don't know), and the tolerance of the GM that receives the ticket (who you also don't know)". So to really use common sense and avoid getting banned entirely, you realistically have to stop all songs for ransoms and the like, since there's no way to tell if you are going to get banned for it. So why don't they just say that. Just rule it out entirely and be done with it.
If that's what you really believe (rather than it being a ridiculous posture) then you've basically got a few options: 1. Continue to rant about it here, knowing that it won't change anything and that CCP couldn't care less about said rant. 2. Speak to CCP about it (via petitioning, twitter or whatever other channel you prefer) 3. Speak to your CSM representative about it. 4. Stand for CSM with the intent of making it your plat form 5. Decide that EVE is no longer for you and go find a game more to your liking. 6. Avoid bahviour you think will get you banned. 7. Continue to play as before and take what you percieve to be risks of getting banned.
Take your pick :) W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:54:00 -
[1338] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Because - customers who play eve are more important than meta-gaming scammers who never undock and who only work hard at making people quit and harming CCPs reputation?
This.
Rinse, repeat. |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:55:00 -
[1339] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Dorn Val wrote: But it wasn't harassment -Sokar volunteered to play Erotica 1's sick game.
Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm.
Ero1 got all the stuff from that dude BEFORE the game started, are there any proofs online for that bonus room actually yielding winners? actual APIs showing facts and numbers and not random alts posting replies? We don't have those, as far as I know. so we take classic eve scammer approach and we say that the scam was concluded as soon that the victim gave all of his stuff to Ero1 and then we ask why to run this bonus room for over 2 hours when no further gain can be made in in-game assets? for Lol'z and Giggles for the scammer. what's the point then?
I'm not defending the way that Erotica 1was playing the game, but I am questioning CCP's reaction to it. Since Erotica1 was banned for breaking a fuzzy rule the Sokar should be banned for breaking one that was clearly defined (making a death threat). Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
93
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:55:00 -
[1340] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Ssieth wrote:Dorn Val wrote: Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm.
Well - the nuggest here is " Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule?". Basically it's what the rules say and how CCP interpret them that matters - your opinion of them is irrelevant. ...and that's all fine and good until they ban you for something not clearly defined... :)
I have exactly zero fear of being banned. The same level I had before this all kicked off. Why? I don't behave in a way that I believe will get me banned.
*shrugs*
See my previous post about your options. I suspect you'll take the "continue to whinge in here fruitlessly" though. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
93
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:56:00 -
[1341] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Dorn Val wrote: But it wasn't harassment -Sokar volunteered to play Erotica 1's sick game.
Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm.
Ero1 got all the stuff from that dude BEFORE the game started, are there any proofs online for that bonus room actually yielding winners? actual APIs showing facts and numbers and not random alts posting replies? We don't have those, as far as I know. so we take classic eve scammer approach and we say that the scam was concluded as soon that the victim gave all of his stuff to Ero1 and then we ask why to run this bonus room for over 2 hours when no further gain can be made in in-game assets? for Lol'z and Giggles for the scammer. what's the point then? I'm not defending the way that Erotica 1was playing the game, but I am questioning CCP's reaction to it. Since Erotica1 was banned for breaking a fuzzy rule the Sokar should be banned for breaking one that was clearly defined (making a death threat).
I think that you're making rather a big assumption here - that Sokhar hasn't received any disciplinary action. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
158
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:57:00 -
[1342] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:So let me get this straight, a very famous EvE Online blogger that's also a member of the CSM used his influence and power to start a witch-hunt on another player, for something that happened outside of the game that he condemns. In is moral high ground blog he harassed and persecuted the player, until a shitstorm thread started on the EvE Online forums, where he continued the witchcraft trial. The thread was closed and the player got banned.
This makes total sense to me... Well that is a subjective way to view it, and a bit limited as well. It was just cause and effect, the cause being a players abuse of another in a way which broke every rule of decency and gameplay, the effect which you elude to happened because of that. Don't put the cart before the horse. Again more moral high ground BS arguments, this events all took place outside of the game. Let's also ban players from EvE Online that get drunk and then beat their wifes. Or ban players that use iphones, i hate iphone and everyone that uses them should be banned. There there, calm down boy. We all know iphone users are far worse than people who beat their wives. Don't generalize please.
Seriously tho, how about some arguments that make sense? pew pew |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2913
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:58:00 -
[1343] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:So let me get this straight, a very famous EvE Online blogger that's also a member of the CSM used his influence and power to start a witch-hunt on another player, for something that happened outside of the game that he condemns. In is moral high ground blog he harassed and persecuted the player, until a shitstorm thread started on the EvE Online forums, where he continued the witchcraft trial. The thread was closed and the player got banned.
This makes total sense to me... I prefer to think of it as he made the player base aware of what a raging psychopath was up to in the game we all play. But sure, if you prefer the term witch hunt, then whatever. Mr Epeen The player base was well aware of this situation before hand, there werere threads about it before. And remember, the "victim" of this particular case stated clearly that he didn't think E1 should be banned and that he was well aware it was his choices and his words, and that he'd just lost his temper at the time. So yes, witch hunt.
Teg has some kind of stick up his ass about E1 and decided to take out his personal issues on hi. He should be dropped from the CSM. A CSM hold an awful lot of power, since so many people will blindly support him in whatever he says just because he's a CSM so they feel that's what they are supposed to do. Picking up a personal vendetta against a player is unfair and he should be responsible by addressing issues in private with CCP if he has them.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
160
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 10:59:00 -
[1344] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Dorn Val wrote: But it wasn't harassment -Sokar volunteered to play Erotica 1's sick game.
Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm.
Ero1 got all the stuff from that dude BEFORE the game started, are there any proofs online for that bonus room actually yielding winners? actual APIs showing facts and numbers and not random alts posting replies? We don't have those, as far as I know. so we take classic eve scammer approach and we say that the scam was concluded as soon that the victim gave all of his stuff to Ero1 and then we ask why to run this bonus room for over 2 hours when no further gain can be made in in-game assets? for Lol'z and Giggles for the scammer. what's the point then?
I'm not defending the way that Erotica 1was playing the game, but I am questioning CCP's reaction to it. Since Erotica1 was banned for breaking a fuzzy rule then Sokar should be banned for breaking one that was clearly defined (making a death threat). Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
96
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:00:00 -
[1345] - Quote
Zen Guerrilla wrote:Seriously tho, how about some arguments that make sense?
These are the EVE forums. You can't go throwing away long-held traditions like that... If you did that then people might read them and then where would we be? We'd all know stuff without having to read blogs and then we wouldn't have bloggers to blame for the consequences of the actions of psychopaths and... well - you can see the spiral of doom you're proposing....
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
516
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:04:00 -
[1346] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:I'm not defending the way that Erotica 1was playing the game, but I am questioning CCP's reaction to it. Since Erotica1 was banned for breaking a fuzzy rule
He was? Could you link the post where it is explained on what grounds Erotica got banned?
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
96
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:04:00 -
[1347] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:The player base was well aware of this situation before hand, there werere threads about it before.
What you mean is that you and the people you regularly associate with were aware of this situation. I, for one, wasn't and neither were the folks I tend to associate with. You're generalising your own experiences to those of the entire player base. You need to be aware that the vast majority of EVE players rarely visit the EVE forums (I'll leave the answer as to why that is as an easy exercise for the reader) and prefer to consume their EVE news via various dedicated bloggers, podcasts etc. For those people this issue was new when the thread-nought started. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
64
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:07:00 -
[1348] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Dorn Val wrote: But it wasn't harassment -Sokar volunteered to play Erotica 1's sick game.
Could we not all "stand up" by going after people like Erotica 1 in game? Could we not station people in trade hubs and warn newbies about the scams? Why does CCP need to ban someone who, IMHO, did not violate any existing rule? Why did CCP not ban someone who clearly did violate an existing rule? Thing that make you go hmmm.
Ero1 got all the stuff from that dude BEFORE the game started, are there any proofs online for that bonus room actually yielding winners? actual APIs showing facts and numbers and not random alts posting replies? We don't have those, as far as I know. so we take classic eve scammer approach and we say that the scam was concluded as soon that the victim gave all of his stuff to Ero1 and then we ask why to run this bonus room for over 2 hours when no further gain can be made in in-game assets? for Lol'z and Giggles for the scammer. what's the point then? I'm not defending the way that Erotica 1was playing the game, but I am questioning CCP's reaction to it. Since Erotica1 was banned for breaking a fuzzy rule then Sokar should be banned for breaking one that was clearly defined (making a death threat).
you don't know that he wasn't unlike erotic1 he has not made any public statement. And again E1 got what he wanted the guy snapped said some very reprehensible things , but circumstances mean he should not receive the same level of punishment as E1 |
General Lemming
Darwins Lemmings Holding Darwins Lemmings
170
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:08:00 -
[1349] - Quote
Does this include using out of Eve websites to scam and haras people in game ? Like Goonswarm does ? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2913
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:10:00 -
[1350] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Why? Here!That makes it perfectly clear. However, I can't use your common sense for you. The problem is that all fine until it isn't. You'll use your common sense and you'll be playing along all fine, then one day you'll encounter the wrong person, then without even getting the chance to find out why, you're gone. It seems to me more like the rule is "don't **** people off too much, based on the level of tolerance the random person on the other end of the game has (who you don't know), and the tolerance of the GM that receives the ticket (who you also don't know)". So to really use common sense and avoid getting banned entirely, you realistically have to stop all songs for ransoms and the like, since there's no way to tell if you are going to get banned for it. So why don't they just say that. Just rule it out entirely and be done with it. If that's what you really believe (rather than it being a ridiculous posture) then you've basically got a few options: 1. Continue to rant about it here, knowing that it won't change anything and that CCP couldn't care less about said rant. 2. Speak to CCP about it (via petitioning, twitter or whatever other channel you prefer) 3. Speak to your CSM representative about it. 4. Stand for CSM with the intent of making it your plat form 5. Decide that EVE is no longer for you and go find a game more to your liking. 6. Avoid bahviour you think will get you banned. 7. Continue to play as before and take what you percieve to be risks of getting banned. Take your pick :) I'm already doing 1,2,3 and either 6 or 7. The reason it's either 6 or 7 is that I dont; perform any task I think would be bannable anyway. I don't ransom for songs or anything like that. Believe it or not, I care about the game as a whole, not just specifically the parts that I play.
It even to cover the other side too. One "victim" might get his petition ignore while another sees the banhammer drop. Why should they be treated different if the circumstance are the same just because a GM is adhering to a rule that has no boundaries?
Why do you think it's so hard for CCP just to make a ruling though? Why do you want a massive grey area where people might get banned for stepping on a line that is arbitrarily chosen at the point the GM receive the petition? It's not even about which way they go with the ruling, whatever they choose I'm behind 100%, but from my point of view, they have to choose something. It's unfair not to, to both "victims" and perpetrators. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2913
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:10:00 -
[1351] - Quote
General Lemming wrote:Does this include using out of Eve websites to scam and haras people in game ? Like Goonswarm does ? And literally hundreds of other websites. Good luck getting that one signed off. Your leaders blog will be gone too.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2913
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:12:00 -
[1352] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:you don't know that he wasn't unlike erotic1 he has not made any public statement. And again E1 got what he wanted the guy snapped said some very reprehensible things , but circumstances mean he should not receive the same level of punishment as E1 So to be clear, you're saying that racism and death threats are OK under some circumstances? Especially when someone got your internet space pixels. I disagree, there is NEVER a reason for that.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
339
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:15:00 -
[1353] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:General Lemming wrote:Does this include using out of Eve websites to scam and haras people in game ? Like Goonswarm does ? And literally hundreds of other websites. Good luck getting that one signed off. Your leaders blog will be gone too.
You are so far away from the point. Slowly I begin to believe that the creepy voice of Ero has manipulated more ppl than I thought. |
Auraka Sith
JPG Industries
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:17:00 -
[1354] - Quote
Quick question before my real post... . why do some character portraits have a RED - or BLUE + in the top right corner?
Ok onto the post...
By page 26 I had to skip to the end, so sorry if this has been posted... But what I don't understand is, how in the world do people not understand where the line was crossed?
A very quick search found that in June 2012 there were over 2.5 billion people connected to the Internet.
So how is people have not realised that posting a voice recording of someone experiencing a mental breakdown for billions to listen too (note: The Internet is FOREVER); instead of leaving the knowledge / details of the breakdown private to those in the voice channel at the time it happened?
Regardless of the this persons statements that they have moved on and hold no ill will; reality is the voice channel recording is out there forever; and it will impact this persons future negatively, it will impact their partner, their family, their friends.
So regardless oh how greedy and foolish this person was to put themselves in the position, limits where reached and breached. Its the actions which follow that is at the heart of the issue of 'Real Life Harassment', not would led there.....
Kind Regards
|
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
517
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:17:00 -
[1355] - Quote
General Lemming wrote:Does this include using out of Eve websites to scam and haras people in game ? Like Goonswarm does ?
Did you actually read the OP or are you just throwing words around? |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
98
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:18:00 -
[1356] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I'm already doing 1,2,3 and either 6 or 7. The reason it's either 6 or 7 is that I dont; perform any task I think would be bannable anyway. I don't ransom for songs or anything like that. Believe it or not, I care about the game as a whole, not just specifically the parts that I play.
I really don't mean to be critical here - just trying to understand. Why are you doing 1? It seems rather pointless and counterproductive.
Lucas Kell wrote:It even to cover the other side too. One "victim" might get his petition ignore while another sees the banhammer drop. Why should they be treated different if the circumstance are the same just because a GM is adhering to a rule that has no boundaries?
Do you have an evidence that these rules are going to be applied inconsistently? I've not seen any.
Lucas Kell wrote:Why do you think it's so hard for CCP just to make a ruling though? Why do you want a massive grey area where people might get banned for stepping on a line that is arbitrarily chosen at the point the GM receive the petition? It's not even about which way they go with the ruling, whatever they choose I'm behind 100%, but from my point of view, they have to choose something. It's unfair not to, to both "victims" and perpetrators.
I don't think it's hard for them to produce something that 99% of the playerbase can interpret perfectly well and in fact I believe that they already have. It seems that there's a tiny minority of folks who can't seem to ge their head around it.
Why can't CCP write a definitive set of rules that leave every situation unambiguous? To do so would require something in such extremis that the player base would never except it. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
98
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:20:00 -
[1357] - Quote
Auraka Sith wrote:Quick question before my real post... . why do some character portraits have a RED - or BLUE + in the top right corner?
Those indicate what standing the character posting has for you, your corp, your alliance etc
W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
341
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:22:00 -
[1358] - Quote
Auraka Sith wrote: But what I don't understand is, how in the world do people not understand where the line was crossed?
mysteries in the dark... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2913
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:22:00 -
[1359] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:General Lemming wrote:Does this include using out of Eve websites to scam and haras people in game ? Like Goonswarm does ? And literally hundreds of other websites. Good luck getting that one signed off. Your leaders blog will be gone too. You are so far away from the point. Slowly I begin to believe that the creepy voice of Ero has manipulated more people than I thought. What? I'm far away from the point by saying the rules shouldn't extend to scam websites? Or are you talking at that guy and quoting me? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2915
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:29:00 -
[1360] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:I really don't mean to be critical here - just trying to understand. Why are you doing 1? It seems rather pointless and counterproductive. ***** and giggles. I generally don't just shut up because a bunch of people disagree with me. I have freedom of speech, and until CCP strip that from me forcefully I'll continue to exercise my rights.
Ssieth wrote:Do you have an evidence that these rules are going to be applied inconsistently? I've not seen any. Different people have different levels at which they would consider something as harassment, and that's evidenced in these threads. It's even evident from CCP, since this issue occurred months ago and they responded then too and nothing was done. So with different people having different definitions of harassment, it's wishful thinking at best to think that the rules will be applied in the same way every time.
Ssieth wrote:I don't think it's hard for them to produce something that 99% of the playerbase can interpret perfectly well and in fact I believe that they already have. It seems that there's a tiny minority of folks who can't seem to ge their head around it.
Why can't CCP write a definitive set of rules that leave every situation unambiguous? To do so would require something in such extremis that the player base would never except it. OK, so it's clear to you right?
Are songs allowed as ransoms? How many songs are allowed? How many are too many?
These are very very simple questions, so if the rules are easy to interpret, you should have no problem answering those, and 99% of the playerbase should agree with your response, right?
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3408
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:29:00 -
[1361] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Thus the statement from CCP is deliberately vague: the people who are clearly "over the line" know they're over the line and expect punishment, the people who are clearly "inside the line" know they're inside and are safe from punishment, while the people in the grey area will either retreat to safety or double down. Once that happens, the enforcers can prune off the people who doubled-down because they're clearly evil, rotten apples and the community is obviously better off without them around.
CCP, like the renowned Belgian philosophers Vroomfondel and Majikthise, insists upon "rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty". As one of the GMs noted to me, "it's a problem of demarcation, but if we get it right, we'll be on the gravy train for life." Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
343
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:33:00 -
[1362] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Are songs allowed as ransoms? How many songs are allowed? How many are too many?
|
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
99
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:36:00 -
[1363] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:***** and giggles.
Fair enough - if you're not actually seeking anything meaningful here I thnk further interaction with you is consequently equally meaningless. Thanks for the clarification. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Big Lynx
The Gun Runners Space Warriors
343
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:38:00 -
[1364] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:***** and giggles. I generally don't just shut up because a bunch of people disagree with me. I have freedom of trolling, and until CCP strip that from me forcefully I'll continue to exercise my rights.
corrected that for you |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2919
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:42:00 -
[1365] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Are songs allowed as ransoms? How many songs are allowed? How many are too many? Seems like a simple question to me. Even CCP have been ransomed for a song, is that practice now outlawed?
Ssieth wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:***** and giggles. Fair enough - if you're not actually seeking anything meaningful here I thnk further interaction with you is consequently equally meaningless. Thanks for the clarification. And in doing so you avoid answering the question about the rules you state are so easy to understand. I think that pretty much says everything.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1208
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:47:00 -
[1366] - Quote
Has Sokhar been banned too? Didn't he issue real life threats and menaces in the bonus room, didn't he call people the N-word.
I can understand why Erotica has been banned but what Sokhar did was just as bad, can anyone clarify if he has been banned as well. If so then justice has been done fairly, if not then justice is clearly one sided in this affair. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:48:00 -
[1367] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Big Lynx wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Are songs allowed as ransoms? How many songs are allowed? How many are too many? Seems like a simple question to me. Even CCP have been ransomed for a song, is that practice now outlawed? Ssieth wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:***** and giggles. Fair enough - if you're not actually seeking anything meaningful here I thnk further interaction with you is consequently equally meaningless. Thanks for the clarification. And in doing so you avoid answering the question about the rules you state are so easy to understand. I think that pretty much says everything.
I am glad I trained Advanced Tear Harvesting to 5. So many tears to collect today and not enough time.................. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
100
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:48:00 -
[1368] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:***** and giggles. Fair enough - if you're not actually seeking anything meaningful here I thnk further interaction with you is consequently equally meaningless. Thanks for the clarification. And in doing so you avoid answering the question about the rules you state are so easy to understand. I think that pretty much says everything. [/quote]
Ah - the classic troll move - your answers are irrelevant to me but I want them anyway or I will declare your view to be invalid
So - one less time then, just 'cause...
Lucas Kell wrote:Are songs allowed as ransoms? How many songs are allowed? How many are too many?
Here's my interpretation:
Yes songs are allowed as ransoms. You're allowed as many as are sensible under the circumstances. See the above.
Presuming you don't feel you can exercise good judgement on the above then you can stay clear of asking for songs as ransoms. Seriously - that shouldn't be too much of a impingement on your life in EVE. If it is then you're probably playing the wrong game. There's probably something karaoke themed out there for you. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
100
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:50:00 -
[1369] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Has Sokhar been banned too? Didn't he issue real life threats and menaces in the bonus room, didn't he call people the N-word.
I can understand why Erotica has been banned but what Sokhar did was just as bad, can anyone clarify if he has been banned as well. If so then justice has been done fairly, if not then justice is clearly one sided in this affair.
The short answer is we don't know and CCP won't tell us. They don't discuss individual cases. Noone here knows, for sure, that E1 has been banned either - it's all inference. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
517
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:51:00 -
[1370] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Has Sokhar been banned too?
CCP usually doesn't reveal if a player has been banned, why don't you ask Sokhar himself?
|
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1208
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:56:00 -
[1371] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Has Sokhar been banned too? CCP usually doesn't reveal if a player has been banned, why don't you ask Sokhar himself?
Because he might call me the N-word! Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
59
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 11:57:00 -
[1372] - Quote
Ssieth wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Has Sokhar been banned too? Didn't he issue real life threats and menaces in the bonus room, didn't he call people the N-word.
I can understand why Erotica has been banned but what Sokhar did was just as bad, can anyone clarify if he has been banned as well. If so then justice has been done fairly, if not then justice is clearly one sided in this affair. The short answer is we don't know and CCP won't tell us. They don't discuss individual cases. Noone here knows, for sure, that E1 has been banned either - it's all inference.
Pretty much this ^^
We wont know until the involved parties confirm what account actions if any were taken. Due to privacy policies CCP wont discuss individual account actions with the public.
|
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
517
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:00:00 -
[1373] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Has Sokhar been banned too? CCP usually doesn't reveal if a player has been banned, why don't you ask Sokhar himself? Because he might call me the N-word!
Then you file a petition and he's done for. What is the problem? |
Kaivar Lancer
Biological Mechanical Unlimited
484
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:03:00 -
[1374] - Quote
Well, this is bollocks. Erotica1 was banned?
Thank you for turning Eve into SWTOR, Ripard.
RIP the sandbox. |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
100
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:06:00 -
[1375] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Well, this is bollocks. Erotica1 was banned?
Thank you for turning Eve into SWTOR, Ripard.
RIP the sandbox.
This is the funniest response I've read all day. W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Shahrokh Dariush
Conspicuous Trading Company
3
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:09:00 -
[1376] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Well, this is bollocks. Erotica1 was banned?
Thank you for turning Eve into SWTOR, Ripard.
RIP the sandbox.
*Mandatory* Can I have your stuff? |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
518
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:10:00 -
[1377] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Well, this is bollocks. Erotica1 was banned?
Thank you for turning Eve into SWTOR, Ripard.
RIP the sandbox.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out! |
Kaivar Lancer
Biological Mechanical Unlimited
485
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:14:00 -
[1378] - Quote
Shahrokh Dariush wrote:
*Mandatory* Can I have your stuff?
My feelings are hurt. Post again and I'll report you to CCP for harassment. And torture! |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
518
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:15:00 -
[1379] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Shahrokh Dariush wrote:
*Mandatory* Can I have your stuff?
My feelings are hurt. Post again and I'll report you to CCP for harassment. And torture!
Go ahead. |
Genseric Tollaris
The Scope Gallente Federation
196
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:16:00 -
[1380] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Well, this is bollocks. Erotica1 was banned?
Thank you for turning Eve into SWTOR, Ripard.
RIP the sandbox.
Eve is dead. |
|
Shahrokh Dariush
Conspicuous Trading Company
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:17:00 -
[1381] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Shahrokh Dariush wrote:
*Mandatory* Can I have your stuff?
My feelings are hurt. Post again and I'll report you to CCP for harassment. And torture!
Ok |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
90
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:22:00 -
[1382] - Quote
Sohkar has not been banned, at least not of last night when he was on Eve Radio having a discussion with Erotica1 and others. edit: twitch.tv/everadiolive
In that interview he in fact said that he maybe deserved a ban as well because of the things he said in the recording. |
Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
179
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:26:00 -
[1383] - Quote
Klyith wrote:Sohkar has not been banned, at least not of last night when he was on Eve Radio having a discussion with Erotica1 and others..
Sohkar can't be banned as per CCP policy
Quote:We are not able to take anything from any third parties as evidences to accuse any players.
Seems pretty clear cut to me, anything you do on the Eve sever is banable, anything outside is not.
Not really sure what all the fuss is about, unless CCP are being inconsistent with their policies and I can't imagine they would ever do that now would they? This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:30:00 -
[1384] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3627268#post3627268
Seems as relevant today as it was then...
Simple rules to play EVE by:
Don't trust anything CCP say about EULA/TOS/the magical "emergent gameplay"/0.01 ISK/etc Don't trust anything forums trolls write
Either do it yourself and find out the hard way,
Or don't do it at all... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1209
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:31:00 -
[1385] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Has Sokhar been banned too? CCP usually doesn't reveal if a player has been banned, why don't you ask Sokhar himself? Because he might call me the N-word! Then you file a petition and he's done for. What is the problem?
That might be a good idea. If you listen to the recordings you can clearly hear him ranting and raving in temper and using the N-word to very great effect.
I don't have time for racists and wouldn't want to contact anyone or spend time with someone that uses racist language and terms of speech in an attempt to belittle other people. Anyhow other posters have quite correctly reminded me of the CCP privacy policy on this so I'll leave it be. I'm not in that much of a strong desire to know that would warrant me contacting him directly. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
160
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:31:00 -
[1386] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Dorn Val wrote:I'm not defending the way that Erotica 1was playing the game, but I am questioning CCP's reaction to it. Since Erotica1 was banned for breaking a fuzzy rule He was? Could you link the post where it is explained on what grounds Erotica got banned?
Point.
Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
518
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:32:00 -
[1387] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:Seems pretty clear cut to me, anything you do on the Eve sever is banable, anything outside is not. Not really sure what all the fuss is about, unless CCP are being inconsistent with their policies and I can't imagine they would ever do that now would they?
I guess the evidence is examined on a case-by-case basis. And a TS recording that matches up with in-game happenings (API, Pod kills) will have more value than some random screenshot of an e-mail that may be easily forged. |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
160
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:35:00 -
[1388] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:you don't know that he wasn't unlike erotic1 he has not made any public statement. And again E1 got what he wanted the guy snapped said some very reprehensible things , but circumstances mean he should not receive the same level of punishment as E1 So to be clear, you're saying that racism and death threats are OK under some circumstances? Especially when someone got your internet space pixels. I disagree, there is NEVER a reason for that.
This ^ Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Shahrokh Dariush
Conspicuous Trading Company
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:44:00 -
[1389] - Quote
Klyith wrote:Sohkar has not been banned, at least not of last night when he was on Eve Radio having a discussion with Erotica1 and others. edit: twitch.tv/everadiolive
In that interview he in fact said that he maybe deserved a ban as well because of the things he said in the recording.
The amount of bullshit coming out of his mouth (Erotica 1) is amusing... He's just a nice guy trying to help people and always take their feelings into account... yeeeah.. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
60
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:44:00 -
[1390] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:Klyith wrote:Sohkar has not been banned, at least not of last night when he was on Eve Radio having a discussion with Erotica1 and others.. Sohkar can't be banned as per CCP policy Quote:We are not able to take anything from any third parties as evidences to accuse any players. Seems pretty clear cut to me, anything you do on the Eve sever is banable, anything outside is not. Not really sure what all the fuss is about, unless CCP are being inconsistent with their policies and I can't imagine they would ever do that now would they?
Along these same lines, CCP cant use a 3rd party source to ban Erotica. After all the recording was made using 3rd party software and posted on 2 3rd party websites. Just saying...
|
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1209
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:49:00 -
[1391] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:Klyith wrote:Sohkar has not been banned, at least not of last night when he was on Eve Radio having a discussion with Erotica1 and others.. Sohkar can't be banned as per CCP policy Quote:We are not able to take anything from any third parties as evidences to accuse any players. Seems pretty clear cut to me, anything you do on the Eve sever is banable, anything outside is not. Not really sure what all the fuss is about, unless CCP are being inconsistent with their policies and I can't imagine they would ever do that now would they?
If this is true then Erotica shouldn't be banned either. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1762
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:49:00 -
[1392] - Quote
Unless I completely missed something, we're still talking about asking someone to volunteer to read and sing songs in teamspeak in some elaborate scam to take their virtual currency that has 0 real world value.
Or did something else happen? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
179
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:50:00 -
[1393] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:I guess the evidence is examined on a case-by-case basis. And a TS recording that matches up with in-game happenings (API, Pod kills) will have more value than some random screenshot of an e-mail that may be easily forged.
It says Quote:not able to use anything not Quote:only able to use things that are above a critical difficulty to forge and matches up with in-game happenings (API, Pod Kills) .
The policy seems pretty clear, the TS evidence can not be used at all so Sohkar cannot be banned (unless of course he has broken the EULA within the game itself as well and CCP has first hand evidence). This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1209
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:52:00 -
[1394] - Quote
but the TS recording is what all of the fuss is about, so in this case it seems obvious that CCP have considered it as evidence.
I know that this is merely speculation, but the point of the original complaint to ccp was the bonus room antics, all of which took place on TS. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:54:00 -
[1395] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Has Sokhar been banned too? CCP usually doesn't reveal if a player has been banned, why don't you ask Sokhar himself? Because he might call me the N-word! Then you file a petition and he's done for. What is the problem? That might be a good idea. If you listen to the recordings you can clearly hear him ranting and raving in temper and using the N-word to very great effect. I don't have time for racists and wouldn't want to contact anyone or spend time with someone that uses racist language and terms of speech in an attempt to belittle other people. Anyhow other posters have quite correctly reminded me of the CCP privacy policy on this so I'll leave it be. I'm not in that much of a strong desire to know that would warrant me contacting him directly.
I don' thave time for sociopaths that attempt to hide behind the veil of a game when getting kicks out of publicly humiliating people for their own masturbatory pleasure. It would appear that CCP thinks the same which is why that deranged fool has been ejected from the game. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
65
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:55:00 -
[1396] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:you don't know that he wasn't unlike erotic1 he has not made any public statement. And again E1 got what he wanted the guy snapped said some very reprehensible things , but circumstances mean he should not receive the same level of punishment as E1 So to be clear, you're saying that racism and death threats are OK under some circumstances? Especially when someone got your internet space pixels. I disagree, there is NEVER a reason for that. This ^
Read and comprehend Keyword reprehensible as unacceptable . Racism is never ok. I said he should recieve some punishment , but the CIRCUMSTANCES shuld be taken into account. To the best of my knowledge he has never spouted racist crap all over the internet , and made it public . His racist rant, deathreats etc was not intentional . It was a emotional spur of the moment reaction to which he apoligised . When your emotions run high you have never said anything you later regret. Unlike Erotica1 this was not premeditated , and planned out. That fact should be taken into account . |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
518
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:59:00 -
[1397] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:I guess the evidence is examined on a case-by-case basis. And a TS recording that matches up with in-game happenings (API, Pod kills) will have more value than some random screenshot of an e-mail that may be easily forged. It says Quote:not able to use anything not Quote:only able to use things that are above a critical difficulty to forge and matches up with in-game happenings (API, Pod Kills) . The policy seems pretty clear, the TS evidence can not be used at all so Sohkar cannot be banned (unless of course he has broken the EULA within the game itself as well and CCP has first hand evidence).
This might well be a case of one GM not knowing what the other did. Or the policy has been updated. But we won't know because CCP won't release details (and rightly so).
Thinking about it, the Mittani incident is pretty much evidence that this policy isn't as clear as you make it out to be. |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1106
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:00:00 -
[1398] - Quote
Will Erotica 1 still go onto the memorial? |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
65
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:01:00 -
[1399] - Quote
doubt it , his name now carries to much negative press. CCP dont want the constant reminder of this incident |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1209
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:02:00 -
[1400] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:
I don' thave time for sociopaths that attempt to hide behind the veil of a game when getting kicks out of publicly humiliating people for their own masturbatory pleasure. It would appear that CCP thinks the same which is why that deranged fool has been ejected from the game.
fair point! Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2922
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:02:00 -
[1401] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Read and comprehend Keyword reprehensible as unacceptable . Racism is never ok. I said he should recieve some punishment , but the CIRCUMSTANCES shuld be taken into account. To the best of my knowledge he has never spouted racist crap all over the internet , and made it public . His racist rant, deathreats etc was not intentional . It was a emotional spur of the moment reaction to which he apoligised . When your emotions run high you have never said anything you later regret. Unlike Erotica1 this was not premeditated , and planned out. That fact should be taken into account . I'd say that if he didn't intentionally spout racism, that's just as bad that he did, if not worse, since that means that when put under pressure his instinct is to resort to racism.
And sure, I've said things I regret under emotional stress. I've never and will never hurl racists abuse because of it though.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1210
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:03:00 -
[1402] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:you don't know that he wasn't unlike erotic1 he has not made any public statement. And again E1 got what he wanted the guy snapped said some very reprehensible things , but circumstances mean he should not receive the same level of punishment as E1 So to be clear, you're saying that racism and death threats are OK under some circumstances? Especially when someone got your internet space pixels. I disagree, there is NEVER a reason for that. This ^ Read and comprehend Keyword reprehensible as unacceptable . Racism is never ok. I said he should recieve some punishment , but the CIRCUMSTANCES shuld be taken into account. To the best of my knowledge he has never spouted racist crap all over the internet , and made it public . His racist rant, deathreats etc was not intentional . It was a emotional spur of the moment reaction to which he apoligised . When your emotions run high you have never said anything you later regret. Unlike Erotica1 this was not premeditated , and planned out. That fact should be taken into account .
I do partly agree, but when a person loses their temper they lose their inhibitions too revealing the real them, that's why the racist element to this is important. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2922
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:06:00 -
[1403] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:I don' thave time for sociopaths that attempt to hide behind the veil of a game when getting kicks out of publicly humiliating people for their own masturbatory pleasure. It would appear that CCP thinks the same which is why that deranged fool has been ejected from the game. And that is perfectly fine. But if CCP are going to use their digression to decide if we are sociopath scum or not, it would be nice to know where they draw that line, since it's clear from these threads that the communities definition is incredibly broad. I don't want to see a situation when a player is banned for something that another player is fine to do, and I don't want to see one victim ignored where and identical victim is helped. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
885
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:06:00 -
[1404] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I do partly agree, but when a person loses their temper they lose their inhibitions too revealing the real them
False.
When someone, anyone, loses their temper, they behave in a manner that is not the "real" them.
Or are you trying to claim that everyone who is not in a state of losing their temper, is not the real them?
DERP!
Are you not real until you are angry? ------------ |
Ssieth
Tenebras Exteriores Dominatus Atrum Mortis
102
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:09:00 -
[1405] - Quote
Well - I think that's enough sociopathy for the time being. Off to play EVE rather than EVE Forums. See you all in another 9 years or so :)
o/ W-Spacer.-á Bittervet. 75% PvP, 25% assorted other stuff. |
Good Posting
Posting with my Mind
137
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:10:00 -
[1406] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
I do partly agree, but when a person loses their temper they lose their inhibitions too revealing the real them, that's why the racist element to this is important.
Nah, the racism card didn't work this time, that's all.
|
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
65
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:12:00 -
[1407] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:olan2005 wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:you don't know that he wasn't unlike erotic1 he has not made any public statement. And again E1 got what he wanted the guy snapped said some very reprehensible things , but circumstances mean he should not receive the same level of punishment as E1 So to be clear, you're saying that racism and death threats are OK under some circumstances? Especially when someone got your internet space pixels. I disagree, there is NEVER a reason for that. This ^ Read and comprehend Keyword reprehensible as unacceptable . Racism is never ok. I said he should recieve some punishment , but the CIRCUMSTANCES shuld be taken into account. To the best of my knowledge he has never spouted racist crap all over the internet , and made it public . His racist rant, deathreats etc was not intentional . It was a emotional spur of the moment reaction to which he apoligised . When your emotions run high you have never said anything you later regret. Unlike Erotica1 this was not premeditated , and planned out. That fact should be taken into account . I do partly agree, but when a person loses their temper they lose their inhibitions too revealing the real them, that's why the racist element to this is important.
it may speak to sohkar true nature And yet again the vast majority of the community have stated what he said was wrong (myself, included) . The vast majority of the community would support some punishment. However do you concede the point that circumstances mean that the punishment should not as severe as erotica1 as it was not premeditated . |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2138
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:14:00 -
[1408] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Darkopus wrote:I don' thave time for sociopaths that attempt to hide behind the veil of a game when getting kicks out of publicly humiliating people for their own masturbatory pleasure. It would appear that CCP thinks the same which is why that deranged fool has been ejected from the game. And that is perfectly fine. But if CCP are going to use their digression to decide if we are sociopath scum or not, it would be nice to know where they draw that line, since it's clear from these threads that the communities definition is incredibly broad. I don't want to see a situation when a player is banned for something that another player is fine to do, and I don't want to see one victim ignored where and identical victim is helped.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide CCP with a set of guidelines - rules which will cover all possible circumstances.
I look forward to you being unable to provide one This is not a signature. |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:19:00 -
[1409] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Darkopus wrote:I don' thave time for sociopaths that attempt to hide behind the veil of a game when getting kicks out of publicly humiliating people for their own masturbatory pleasure. It would appear that CCP thinks the same which is why that deranged fool has been ejected from the game. And that is perfectly fine. But if CCP are going to use their digression to decide if we are sociopath scum or not, it would be nice to know where they draw that line, since it's clear from these threads that the communities definition is incredibly broad. I don't want to see a situation when a player is banned for something that another player is fine to do, and I don't want to see one victim ignored where and identical victim is helped.
CCP guard et al have already told you. Falcon highlighted the existing rules and Guard added that if you feel threatened IRL then go to the law. What you are all asking for now is for more clearly, set in stone guidelines which will never happen because this then opens the gates for people to do deranged acts not expressly forbidden by these new rules and say "it wasn't illegal" leading to more restrictions, more shitpost and taking away a little bit more of the EVE we know.
|
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:33:00 -
[1410] - Quote
Shahrokh Dariush wrote: The amount of bullshit coming out of his mouth (Erotica 1) is amusing... He's just a nice guy trying to help people and always take their feelings into account... yeeeah..
He had 39 billion isk and was only one of a number of people operating the Bonus Room. They can afford to occasionally throw some pity isk at the guys who take it too hard. The thing was about entertainment, not money.
(And if the victim is soothed enough not to petition or complain to CCP, so much the better. There's a reason nothing happened about this for years until Ripard started a moral crusade.) |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2923
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:34:00 -
[1411] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Darkopus wrote:I don' thave time for sociopaths that attempt to hide behind the veil of a game when getting kicks out of publicly humiliating people for their own masturbatory pleasure. It would appear that CCP thinks the same which is why that deranged fool has been ejected from the game. And that is perfectly fine. But if CCP are going to use their digression to decide if we are sociopath scum or not, it would be nice to know where they draw that line, since it's clear from these threads that the communities definition is incredibly broad. I don't want to see a situation when a player is banned for something that another player is fine to do, and I don't want to see one victim ignored where and identical victim is helped. Perhaps you would be kind enough to provide CCP with a set of guidelines - rules which will cover all possible circumstances. I look forward to you being unable to provide one Sure. Here's 2 possibles: 1 - Taking a scam out onto voice comms is against the rules. The end.
2 - Anything done on voice comms or on any 3rd party media is in no way covered by the EVE ToS or EULA. If you feel you have been harassed use the legal support systems available as you would in any other circumstance.
Personally, 2 would make the most sense, since it's the way most things work. If you hate someone on Facebook and you harass them on twitter, Facebook don't take action against you.
Edit: And note: it's not that it has to 100% cover every nuance of a situation. It just has to cover more than generically saying "don;t harass people", as that's a subjective measure. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Sturmwolke
535
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:35:00 -
[1412] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:Read and comprehend Keyword reprehensible as unacceptable . Racism is never ok. I said he should recieve some punishment , but the CIRCUMSTANCES shuld be taken into account. To the best of my knowledge he has never spouted racist crap all over the internet , and made it public . His racist rant, deathreats etc was not intentional . It was a emotional spur of the moment reaction to which he apoligised . When your emotions run high you have never said anything you later regret. Unlike Erotica1 this was not premeditated , and planned out. That fact should be taken into account . I'd say that if he didn't intentionally spout racism, that's just as bad that he did, if not worse, since that means that when put under pressure his instinct is to resort to racism. And sure, I've said things I regret under emotional stress. I've never and will never hurl racists abuse because of it though. My apologies, I wasn't going to interject, but this tickles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ux3oiWELIQ
.... please carry on.
|
GrowlingMadScientist
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:40:00 -
[1413] - Quote
Oh the delicious sociopath tears in this thread.
Voice communication has opened up new doors of personal interaction between players in the last decade and personal, emotional abuse by 'empathically challenged' people is something that should not be tolerated anywhere and especially not in and around this game.
Erotica 1 and his friends should have stuck to smearing their names with ***** on each other, for all I care. But what happened in this particular instance of the bonus round was just wrong.
I am glad that Malcanis was finally convinced of this. Even if his opinion alone wouldn't have an effect on the CSM's or CCP's judgment, I was a bit worried having someone condoning this behavior in the CSM. I do not play much, but I have observed this game for over 10 years now, so I do care a little. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3240
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:41:00 -
[1414] - Quote
Falcon locked a thread of mine that he claimed was ranting and a 'quitting' thread. While it's true I am leaving, the purpose of the thread was to highlight CCP's inconsistencies in player moderation. Falcon could have locked it for any number of reasons, but the main one he chose, ranting, indicates to me that CCP are unhappy about their player base being informed of this inconsistency. Which essentially amounts to censorship, but it technically isn't until they remove the link in the locked thread. In any case, here it is again:
http://remielpollardlives.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/temporary-close.html You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3240
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:43:00 -
[1415] - Quote
GrowlingMadScientist wrote:Oh the delicious sociopath tears in this thread.
I see you enjoy tears. Welcome, fellow sociopath. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2923
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:43:00 -
[1416] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Darkopus wrote:I don' thave time for sociopaths that attempt to hide behind the veil of a game when getting kicks out of publicly humiliating people for their own masturbatory pleasure. It would appear that CCP thinks the same which is why that deranged fool has been ejected from the game. And that is perfectly fine. But if CCP are going to use their digression to decide if we are sociopath scum or not, it would be nice to know where they draw that line, since it's clear from these threads that the communities definition is incredibly broad. I don't want to see a situation when a player is banned for something that another player is fine to do, and I don't want to see one victim ignored where and identical victim is helped. CCP guard et al have already told you. Falcon highlighted the existing rules and Guard added that if you feel threatened IRL then go to the law. What you are all asking for now is for more clearly, set in stone guidelines which will never happen because this then opens the gates for people to do deranged acts not expressly forbidden by these new rules and say "it wasn't illegal" leading to more restrictions, more shitpost and taking away a little bit more of the EVE we know. But it's NOT the existing rules, is it? This happened moths ago and was seen by CCP devs who commented then. And it was fine. Now that a CSM member has had a personal witch hunt and a bunch of the community has joined it, probably without even hearing the recording, action has been taken. That's not the existing rules, that's a new precedent. I just want to know where that precedent has been set. Will people get banned for asking for a song if the person who sings it decides he was upset after singing it? And does the failure to hold to a ransom agreement after getting a song change the circumstance?
It's a pretty simple concept, but you guys are so sure that there's an ulterior motive to it you won't even hear it out.
As for taking a way a piece of EVE, I'd say that randomly enforcing one rule while ignoring another at the whim of a CSM member and public pressure for an event that happened months ago while similar event have happened for years is a hell of a lot more damaging than a simple statement to explain roughly where the line will be drawn by the GMs. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
886
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:45:00 -
[1417] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Falcon locked a thread of mine that he claimed was ranting and a 'quitting' thread. While it's true I am leaving, the purpose of the thread was to highlight CCP's inconsistencies in player moderation. Falcon could have locked it for any number of reasons, but the main one he chose, ranting, indicates to me that CCP are unhappy about their player base being informed of this inconsistency. Is it ranting to put them in the spotlight when they have done such? Which essentially amounts to censorship, but it technically isn't until they remove the link in the locked thread.
Disputing Dev actions is against forum rules.
He gave you three valid reasons, among which that your thread got locked because "I'm Leaving" threads belong in OPE.
Keep digging yourself deeper. ------------ |
Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:46:00 -
[1418] - Quote
Last night I was ransomed and was asked to go on Teamspeak to sing a song, I felt publicly humiliated and have cried for hours and hours. I would like a response from CCP to see what I could do in these circumstances, they have the recordings and are threatening me to release them to the EVE public, is this bannable? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2927
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:47:00 -
[1419] - Quote
GrowlingMadScientist wrote:Oh the delicious sociopath tears in this thread. Good job buddy! Feel better? Print out the post and your mum can stick it on the fridge.
GrowlingMadScientist wrote:But what happened in this particular instance of the bonus round was just wrong. You are correct, it was indeed wrong. Sohkar hurling racist abuse was very very wrong.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2927
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:48:00 -
[1420] - Quote
Ryann Padecain wrote:Last night I was ransomed and was asked to go on Teamspeak to sing a song, I felt publicly humiliated and have cried for hours and hours, who do I talk to to get these guys banned? You need to file a petition. If you want faster action, speak to Ripard Teg, and he can start up a personal hate campaign against the perpetrators. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
92
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:49:00 -
[1421] - Quote
Ryann Padecain wrote:Last night I was ransomed and was asked to go on Teamspeak to sing a song, I felt publicly humiliated and have cried for hours and hours, who do I talk to to get these guys banned? massively.joystiq.com |
Salvos Rhoska
886
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:50:00 -
[1422] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:he can start up a personal hate campaign against the perpetrators. Funny, I thought that was your department, as evidenced by you and associated cronies "trying" (and failing) to mount a personal hate campaign against Ripard Teg. ------------ |
Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:51:00 -
[1423] - Quote
I have already sent an email out to majority of gaming sites interested in EVE, as from today I realise this could be bannable and disgusting behaviour that is not promoted by CCP in any way shape or form. I have petitioned it but do not wish to speak to GM's since they come back with "we do not get involved with 3rd party" and CCP have said they will try and answer questions here, I would like a response. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
520
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:53:00 -
[1424] - Quote
Ryann Padecain wrote:Last night I was ransomed and was asked to go on Teamspeak to sing a song, I felt publicly humiliated and have cried for hours and hours. I would like a response from CCP to see what I could do in these circumstances, they have the recordings and are threatening me to release them to the EVE public, is this bannable?
You need to file a petition with CCP. Crying in this thread just makes you look like a idiot. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1351
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:54:00 -
[1425] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Plug in Baby wrote:Klyith wrote:Sohkar has not been banned, at least not of last night when he was on Eve Radio having a discussion with Erotica1 and others.. Sohkar can't be banned as per CCP policy Quote:We are not able to take anything from any third parties as evidences to accuse any players. Seems pretty clear cut to me, anything you do on the Eve sever is banable, anything outside is not. Not really sure what all the fuss is about, unless CCP are being inconsistent with their policies and I can't imagine they would ever do that now would they? If this is true then Erotica shouldn't be banned either. We don't know for what reason and based on what evidence Erotica was banned. |
Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:56:00 -
[1426] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Ryann Padecain wrote:Last night I was ransomed and was asked to go on Teamspeak to sing a song, I felt publicly humiliated and have cried for hours and hours. I would like a response from CCP to see what I could do in these circumstances, they have the recordings and are threatening me to release them to the EVE public, is this bannable? You need to file a petition with CCP. Crying in this thread just makes you look like a idiot. Sorry but I will look more of an idiot when the recordings are released, GM's have already told me that they do not get involved with 3rd party as it did not happen on EVE servers. CCP seems to think different and I would like to hear a response from them as they said they will answer questions as best as they possibly can, is that too much to ask?
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
797
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 13:59:00 -
[1427] - Quote
Ryann Padecain wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Ryann Padecain wrote:Last night I was ransomed and was asked to go on Teamspeak to sing a song, I felt publicly humiliated and have cried for hours and hours. I would like a response from CCP to see what I could do in these circumstances, they have the recordings and are threatening me to release them to the EVE public, is this bannable? You need to file a petition with CCP. Crying in this thread just makes you look like a idiot. Sorry but I will look more of an idiot when the recordings are released, GM's have already told me that they do not get involved with 3rd party as it did not happen on EVE servers. CCP seems to think different and I would like to hear a response from them as they said they will answer questions as best as they possibly can, is that too much to ask?
Proof this fellow speaks the truth.
Wah?!
Oh, and hi guys
D.
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1764
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:01:00 -
[1428] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:he can start up a personal hate campaign against the perpetrators. Funny, I thought that was your department, as evidenced by you and associated cronies "trying" (and failing) to mount a personal hate campaign against Ripard Teg.
Nonsense, we're all looking forward to World of Spacecraft. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
65
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:02:00 -
[1429] - Quote
3rd party being keyword. It was erotica1 himself who published the evidence to damn him , jester put that evidence in his blog, put erotica1 posted and recorded the ts himself. making it 1st party evidence |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
797
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:03:00 -
[1430] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:3rd party being keyword. It was erotica1 himself who published the evidence to damn him , jester put that evidence in his blog, put erotica1 posted and recorded the ts himself. making it 1st party evidence
Wait what?! Erotica = EVE ONLINE, The game?
What trickery is this? Are we all in the matrix or something?
D.
Edit: 3rd party = Teamspeak, facebook, blogs, etc... |
|
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
521
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:03:00 -
[1431] - Quote
Ryann Padecain wrote:Sorry but I will look more of an idiot when the recordings are released, GM's have already told me that they do not get involved with 3rd party as it did not happen on EVE servers. CCP seems to think different and I would like to hear a response from them as they said they will answer questions as best as they possibly can, is that too much to ask?
Where is this recording located? Where is a blogpost where you get ridiculed? Oh, nowhere? Well, then you can **** off, you lying liar who lies.
|
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3243
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:03:00 -
[1432] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Falcon locked a thread of mine that he claimed was ranting and a 'quitting' thread. While it's true I am leaving, the purpose of the thread was to highlight CCP's inconsistencies in player moderation. Falcon could have locked it for any number of reasons, but the main one he chose, ranting, indicates to me that CCP are unhappy about their player base being informed of this inconsistency. Is it ranting to put them in the spotlight when they have done such? Which essentially amounts to censorship, but it technically isn't until they remove the link in the locked thread. Disputing Dev actions is against forum rules. He gave you three valid reasons, among which that your thread got locked because "I'm Leaving" threads belong in OPE. Keep digging yourself deeper.
Digging? Dude, I unsubbed. There's nothing they can do that I haven't done to myself. The reasons were not valid, any fool can see, they're just trying to save face. I actually like Falcon, but credit where credit is due. Same where it's not. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Anslo
Scope Works
4614
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:05:00 -
[1433] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Falcon locked a thread of mine that he claimed was ranting and a 'quitting' thread. While it's true I am leaving, the purpose of the thread was to highlight CCP's inconsistencies in player moderation. Falcon could have locked it for any number of reasons, but the main one he chose, ranting, indicates to me that CCP are unhappy about their player base being informed of this inconsistency. Is it ranting to put them in the spotlight when they have done such? Which essentially amounts to censorship, but it technically isn't until they remove the link in the locked thread. Disputing Dev actions is against forum rules. He gave you three valid reasons, among which that your thread got locked because "I'm Leaving" threads belong in OPE. Keep digging yourself deeper. Digging? Dude, I unsubbed. There's nothing they can do that I haven't done to myself. The reasons were not valid, any fool can see, they're just trying to save face. I actually like Falcon, but credit where credit is due. Same where it's not.
Yeah I dislike Pollard but he has a point. Someone dox'd the guy. Like, what the ****? What the actual ****? Do they operate in lowsec?
|
Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:06:00 -
[1434] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Ryann Padecain wrote:Sorry but I will look more of an idiot when the recordings are released, GM's have already told me that they do not get involved with 3rd party as it did not happen on EVE servers. CCP seems to think different and I would like to hear a response from them as they said they will answer questions as best as they possibly can, is that too much to ask? Where is this recording located? Where is a blogpost where you get ridiculed? Oh, nowhere? Well, then you can **** off, you lying liar who lies. Calm down? I am genuinely wanting a response from CCP on this matter, if it is the case that only it is a bannable offense after the recordings are published.. the damage is already done and I will already be publicly humiliated, it would be strange if CCP would not want to prevent cyber bullying on this matter. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3245
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:06:00 -
[1435] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Falcon locked a thread of mine that he claimed was ranting and a 'quitting' thread. While it's true I am leaving, the purpose of the thread was to highlight CCP's inconsistencies in player moderation. Falcon could have locked it for any number of reasons, but the main one he chose, ranting, indicates to me that CCP are unhappy about their player base being informed of this inconsistency. Is it ranting to put them in the spotlight when they have done such? Which essentially amounts to censorship, but it technically isn't until they remove the link in the locked thread. Disputing Dev actions is against forum rules. He gave you three valid reasons, among which that your thread got locked because "I'm Leaving" threads belong in OPE. Keep digging yourself deeper. Digging? Dude, I unsubbed. There's nothing they can do that I haven't done to myself. The reasons were not valid, any fool can see, they're just trying to save face. I actually like Falcon, but credit where credit is due. Same where it's not. Yeah I dislike Pollard but he has a point. Someone dox'd the guy. Like, what the ****? What the actual ****? Do they operate in lowsec?
I provided the names of the specific toons owned by the person that doxed me on my blog post at http://remielpollardlives.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/temporary-close.html
When our wardec against them had ended, they were operating in Gallente highsec around Cistuvaert somewhere.
Have at it, Hoss. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Salvos Rhoska
887
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:07:00 -
[1436] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Falcon locked a thread of mine that he claimed was ranting and a 'quitting' thread. While it's true I am leaving, the purpose of the thread was to highlight CCP's inconsistencies in player moderation. Falcon could have locked it for any number of reasons, but the main one he chose, ranting, indicates to me that CCP are unhappy about their player base being informed of this inconsistency. Is it ranting to put them in the spotlight when they have done such? Which essentially amounts to censorship, but it technically isn't until they remove the link in the locked thread. Disputing Dev actions is against forum rules. He gave you three valid reasons, among which that your thread got locked because "I'm Leaving" threads belong in OPE. Keep digging yourself deeper. Digging? Dude, I unsubbed. There's nothing they can do that I haven't done to myself. The reasons were not valid, any fool can see, they're just trying to save face. I actually like Falcon, but credit where credit is due. Same where it's not.
He gave you three valid reasons.
Then you broke forum rules again by disputing his action here.
Why are you deliberately breaking rules? ------------ |
Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
179
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:07:00 -
[1437] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:We don't know for what reason and based on what evidence Erotica was banned.
Or if he was at all, he might have just decided he didn't want to play this game on that account any more.
Clearly what ever he does on TS is not bannable as it would come from a third party. So if he was banned it may have been for doing something in breach of the EULA, like RMT. Unless the EULA has changed, maybe scamming, podding etc are now perma-ban offences, but not when I last checked. Sadly we will not be able to know for sure as neither he nor CCP can discuss individual moderation.
Unless third party evidence is now OK in which case I need to start recording enemy comms because I can think of a whole tonne of petitions I could submit.
I guess we can start submitting recordings of verbal abuse in TS to the community team to find out if they are ok or not, rather than speculating on the forums where you won't get a clear answer. This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
522
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:10:00 -
[1438] - Quote
Ryann Padecain wrote:Calm down? I am genuinely wanting a response from CCP on this matter
Then you should file a ******* petition and not post in some random thread. If you already did that and the answer wasn't to your liking, you can escalate the petition to a senior GM. If the answer is still not to your liking: I can help you find the "Cancel subscription" button if you are not smart enough to find it.
|
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3245
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:10:00 -
[1439] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Falcon locked a thread of mine that he claimed was ranting and a 'quitting' thread. While it's true I am leaving, the purpose of the thread was to highlight CCP's inconsistencies in player moderation. Falcon could have locked it for any number of reasons, but the main one he chose, ranting, indicates to me that CCP are unhappy about their player base being informed of this inconsistency. Is it ranting to put them in the spotlight when they have done such? Which essentially amounts to censorship, but it technically isn't until they remove the link in the locked thread. Disputing Dev actions is against forum rules. He gave you three valid reasons, among which that your thread got locked because "I'm Leaving" threads belong in OPE. Keep digging yourself deeper. Digging? Dude, I unsubbed. There's nothing they can do that I haven't done to myself. The reasons were not valid, any fool can see, they're just trying to save face. I actually like Falcon, but credit where credit is due. Same where it's not. He gave you three valid reasons. Then you broke forum rules again by disputing his action here. Why are you deliberately breaking rules?
For one, I'm not breaking the rules. For another, no valid reason was provided. I was providing information to the playerbase and highlighting CCP's inconsistency. Finally, given that CCP is practicing double standards now, what rules? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
522
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:11:00 -
[1440] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote:I guess we can start submitting recordings of verbal abuse in TS to the community team to find out if they are ok or not, rather than speculating on the forums where you won't get a clear answer.
Please do that. That will put you on the fast-track out of this game, which is a good thing! |
|
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
522
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:12:00 -
[1441] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:For one, I'm not breaking the rules. For another, no valid reason was provided. I was providing information to the playerbase and highlighting CCP's inconsistency. Finally, given that CCP is practicing double standards now, what rules?
Where did CCP say that Erotica 1 was banned because of the TS recordings? |
Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:12:00 -
[1442] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Ryann Padecain wrote:Calm down? I am genuinely wanting a response from CCP on this matter Then you should file a ******* petition and not post in some random thread. If you already did that and the answer wasn't to your liking, you can escalate the petition to a senior GM. If the answer is still not to your liking: I can help you find the "Cancel subscription" button if you are not smart enough to find it. I'm not sure what your issue is but I am sure ISD will sort you out at some point, if you aren't aware as of yet this is not a "random" thread, this is a thread to discuss real life harassment in which I feel has happened to me, please refrain from getting personal and/or angry. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
798
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:13:00 -
[1443] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Ryann Padecain wrote:Calm down? I am genuinely wanting a response from CCP on this matter Then you should file a ******* petition and not post in some random thread. If you already did that and the answer wasn't to your liking, you can escalate the petition to a senior GM. If the answer is still not to your liking: I can help you find the "Cancel subscription" button if you are not smart enough to find it.
Why so angry? A fellow player got threatened, harssed and bullied and you (in a thread about An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment no less) keep pushing him for an emotional reaction.
Stop it.
D.
|
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3245
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:14:00 -
[1444] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:For one, I'm not breaking the rules. For another, no valid reason was provided. I was providing information to the playerbase and highlighting CCP's inconsistency. Finally, given that CCP is practicing double standards now, what rules? Where did CCP say that Erotica 1 was banned because of the TS recordings?
They didn't, they never do. But given the publicity, this was bound to become public knowledge whether they announced it or not. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Salvos Rhoska
887
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:14:00 -
[1445] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Falcon locked a thread of mine that he claimed was ranting and a 'quitting' thread. While it's true I am leaving, the purpose of the thread was to highlight CCP's inconsistencies in player moderation. Falcon could have locked it for any number of reasons, but the main one he chose, ranting, indicates to me that CCP are unhappy about their player base being informed of this inconsistency. Is it ranting to put them in the spotlight when they have done such? Which essentially amounts to censorship, but it technically isn't until they remove the link in the locked thread. Disputing Dev actions is against forum rules. He gave you three valid reasons, among which that your thread got locked because "I'm Leaving" threads belong in OPE. Keep digging yourself deeper. Digging? Dude, I unsubbed. There's nothing they can do that I haven't done to myself. The reasons were not valid, any fool can see, they're just trying to save face. I actually like Falcon, but credit where credit is due. Same where it's not. He gave you three valid reasons. Then you broke forum rules again by disputing his action here. Why are you deliberately breaking rules? For one, I'm not breaking the rules. For another, no valid reason was provided. I was providing information to the playerbase and highlighting CCP's inconsistency. Finally, given that CCP is practicing double standards now, what rules?
He gave three valid reasons for locking your thread.
Now you are disputing those reasons as valid, here, violating board rules once again.
Keep on disputing Dev decision to lock your thread, and I will just keep on reporting your posts as such. ------------ |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
522
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:15:00 -
[1446] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Why so angry? A fellow player got threatened, harssed and bullied and you (in a thread about An Announcement Regarding Real Life Harassment no less) keep pushing him for an emotional reaction.
Stop it.
If your feelings are hurt by my posting, feel free to block me or file a petition. You will get no sympathy for a liar from me.
|
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3245
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:16:00 -
[1447] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ctrl-C + Ctrl-V = leet debating skills
Keep ignoring everything but the voices in your head, Salvos, and you'll never, ever be a real boy. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
522
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:16:00 -
[1448] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:For one, I'm not breaking the rules. For another, no valid reason was provided. I was providing information to the playerbase and highlighting CCP's inconsistency. Finally, given that CCP is practicing double standards now, what rules? Where did CCP say that Erotica 1 was banned because of the TS recordings? They didn't, they never do. But given the publicity, this was bound to become public knowledge whether they announced it or not.
Where did Erotica 1 say he got banned because of the TS recordings? |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3247
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:17:00 -
[1449] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:For one, I'm not breaking the rules. For another, no valid reason was provided. I was providing information to the playerbase and highlighting CCP's inconsistency. Finally, given that CCP is practicing double standards now, what rules? Where did CCP say that Erotica 1 was banned because of the TS recordings? They didn't, they never do. But given the publicity, this was bound to become public knowledge whether they announced it or not. Where did Erotica 1 say he got banned because of the TS recordings?
Why do idiots repeat questions they already have answers to? You and Salvos, together, might actually make half a brain cell. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
799
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:17:00 -
[1450] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:For one, I'm not breaking the rules. For another, no valid reason was provided. I was providing information to the playerbase and highlighting CCP's inconsistency. Finally, given that CCP is practicing double standards now, what rules? Where did CCP say that Erotica 1 was banned because of the TS recordings? They didn't, they never do. But given the publicity, this was bound to become public knowledge whether they announced it or not. Where did Erotica 1 say he got banned because of the TS recordings?
On a 3rd party website
D.
|
|
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
524
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:19:00 -
[1451] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:For one, I'm not breaking the rules. For another, no valid reason was provided. I was providing information to the playerbase and highlighting CCP's inconsistency. Finally, given that CCP is practicing double standards now, what rules? Where did CCP say that Erotica 1 was banned because of the TS recordings? They didn't, they never do. But given the publicity, this was bound to become public knowledge whether they announced it or not. Where did Erotica 1 say he got banned because of the TS recordings? Why do idiots repeat questions they already have answers to? You and Salvos, together, might actually make half a brain cell.
Does that mean you don't actually know why Erotica 1 got banned? If you do, feel free to link a post (here or on minerbumping.com) by him stating why he got banned. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3247
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:21:00 -
[1452] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote: Does that mean you don't actually know why Erotica 1 got banned? If you do, feel free to link a post (here or on minerbumping.com) by him stating why he got banned.
He got banned because CCP was reacting to the carebear morality patrol instead of actually moderating. Moderating =/= reacting. If they were moderating, none of this would have happened. At this stage, it's all on CCP. If they were going to ban him over the sohkar incident, they should have done it a month ago when it actually happened.
/thread You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Salvos Rhoska
888
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:22:00 -
[1453] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:He got banned because CCP was reacting to the carebear morality patrol instead of actually moderating
Proof and citation needed. ------------ |
Bob Bedala
45
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:23:00 -
[1454] - Quote
Salvos, those in glass houses etc.
"13. Pyramid quoting is prohibited."
|
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3247
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:24:00 -
[1455] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:He got banned because CCP was reacting to the carebear morality patrol instead of actually moderating Proof and citation needed.
Naturally, you ignored the part of my post that mattered. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Salvos Rhoska
888
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:25:00 -
[1456] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:He got banned because CCP was reacting to the carebear morality patrol instead of actually moderating Proof and citation needed. Naturally, you ignored the part of my post that mattered.
You have not proved why Erotica1 was banned, anywhere.
None of your posts have provided any such evidence or proof. ------------ |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3248
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:27:00 -
[1457] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:He got banned because CCP was reacting to the carebear morality patrol instead of actually moderating Proof and citation needed. Naturally, you ignored the part of my post that mattered. You have not proved why Erotica1 was banned, anywhere. None of your posts have provided any such evidence or proof.
If he was going to be banned over the sohkar incident, why now instead of when it was first made public knowledge in February? That's the part that matters, Salvos, the part you are selectively ignoring. As you so often do with reasoning that tramples your 'intellect'. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:29:00 -
[1458] - Quote
Remiel, I agree with you however, reasoning with salvos the troll is not going to help the matter, you are helping the matter spin off in some kind of drivel which ultimately is not good for anyone as it will be forgotten about. I advise that you stop, you've made your point.
I hope CCP did read my post and will give me a genuine answer on this matter to prevent my humiliating recordings being released. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
525
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:31:00 -
[1459] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:If he was going to be banned over the sohkar incident, why now instead of when it was first made public knowledge in February? That's the part that matters, Salvos, the part you are selectively ignoring. As you so often do with reasoning that tramples your 'intellect'.
Do you have evidence that CCP had knowledge of this incident back in february? Do you have evidence that CCP didn't do anything prior to the announcement yesterday? Could it be that CCP asked the opinions of the CSM prior to acting? |
Salvos Rhoska
889
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:31:00 -
[1460] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:That's the part that matters, Salvos, the part you are selectively ignoring.
Explain your earlier comments in this thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4405578#post4405578 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4405639#post4405639 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4405738#post4405738
In all of these you claim that nobody knows the reasons for actions that CCP takes, because they do not discuss how they enact their policy on the part of individual players.
Are you going back on your word now?
Are you now claiming to KNOW why Erotica1 was banned, AGAINST what you have said in these earlier posts?
If so, where is your evidence or proof to support your claims of why Erotica1 was banned?
You are doubletalking and falling on your own sword.
That in addition to already claiming you are leaving, and deliberately and repeatedly disputing a Devs locking of the thread in which you announced it, even though he provided 3 legitimate reasons for doing so.
SLAM DUNK SIT DOWN, SON! ------------ |
|
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3248
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:34:00 -
[1461] - Quote
Do you know what deductive reasoning is? No?
Then you didn't slam dunk ****.
You're right, I can't prove it.
But what's the alternative explanation? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Salvos Rhoska
889
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:35:00 -
[1462] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Do you know what deductive reasoning is? No? Then you didn't slam dunk ****. You're right, I can't prove it. But what's the alternative explanation?
Rekt.
Leave as you said you would, while you have even a single shred of dignity or credibility left. ------------ |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3248
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:36:00 -
[1463] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Rekt.
Leave as you said you would, while you have even a single shred of dignity or credibility left.
Whelp, I asked you a question.
What's the alternative explanation?
Also, I said I'm leaving EVE, yes, and I won't be logging in again. Never said anything about the forums. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3248
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:37:00 -
[1464] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:If he was going to be banned over the sohkar incident, why now instead of when it was first made public knowledge in February? That's the part that matters, Salvos, the part you are selectively ignoring. As you so often do with reasoning that tramples your 'intellect'. Do you have evidence that CCP had knowledge of this incident back in february? Do you have evidence that CCP didn't do anything prior to the announcement yesterday? Could it be that CCP asked the opinions of the CSM prior to acting?
It was made a matter of public record on minerbumping.com and posted to these very forums back in February to mixed reactions. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:38:00 -
[1465] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[quote=Darkopus]I don' thave time for sociopaths that attempt to hide behind the veil of a game when getting kicks out of publicly humiliating people for their own masturbatory pleasure. It would appear that CCP thinks the same which is why that deranged fool has been ejected from the game. And that is perfectly fine. But if CCP are going to use their digression to decide if we are sociopath scum or not, it would be nice to know where they draw that line, since it's clear from these threads that the communities definition is incredibly broad. I don't want to see a situation when a player is banned for something that another player is fine to do, and I don't want to see one victim ignored where and identical victim is helped. Personally, 2 would make the most sense, since it's the way most things work. If you hate someone on Facebook and you harass them on twitter, Facebook don't take action against you. Edit: And note: it's not that it has to 100% cover every nuance of a situation. It just has to cover more than generically saying "don;t harass people", as that's a subjective measure.
but in this case it was done in the name of EVE saying it was part of the game. Thus CCP as any good comopany trying to protect its integrity and reputation looked at it, and their evaluation was "this is too far and could damage us, bring EVE and CCP into potential disrepute" and so they dealt with it.
If all this bonus bullshit was done entirely inside EVE, no recordings made public and done as a true in game in character scam do you think this conversation would be happening.
Some sicko's couldn't understand where the game ends and thus stepped opver the mark and got bitchslapped by the "owners" of the sandbox. Now their sycophant followers can't hack this and are feeding us all their tears.
You can play at whatever floats your boat in this sandbox, but you take it somewhere that CCP doesn't like and do so in the name of the game when what you are doing is nothing to do with the game and everything to do with publically humiliating the actual person driving the character rather than the character then you will get squeezed.
The problem is that the sociopaths of this game simply can't draw the line and think they are being clever in their sick games and then when CCP slats them out of the sand go all huffy. Now they come and cry tears saying they want clear definitions only to enable them to work out how they can circumvent them and continue there sick deranged games. Deal with it you tearful pubbies |
Bob Bedala
45
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:39:00 -
[1466] - Quote
End of Jester's Trek Latest Blog threadnaught: CCP Falcon: "An announcement has been made [in the OP of this] thread, and as such we're going to bring this thread to a close."
CCP Falcon wrote:While the content of online interactions between players cannot realistically be gated within our game worlds, CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world
And rightly so. But this "announcement" brings no closure and does nothing to prevent this happening again. It's unreasonable to expect players to stay behind a moving grey line without detailing where the line is, and providing examples (as per the Griefing wiki page, for instance).
As I explain (with helpful suggestions) in more detail in the CSM Feedback to CCP Thread this all illustrates a need for more clarity around this, a reference document with examples which is not the EULA.
Because this is all highly subjective. For example, right now in my opinion I see strong arguments for a temp banning for all three parties involved in the recent matter, and one of them is apparently on the CSM(!). (Not a troll, or devil's advocate, but really. I would go into more detail as to why, but I am guessing that would be against forum rules.)
So who is being harassed here? CCP Falcon's post is certainly admirable but nothing we didn't already know and does not improve things. I know CCP rules (and I guess the legal team?) prevent you from going into detail, but if nothing else this debacle proves to me that something in CCP policy around communication of acceptable behaviour needs fixing. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
526
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:39:00 -
[1467] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Do you have evidence that CCP had knowledge of this incident back in february? Do you have evidence that CCP didn't do anything prior to the announcement yesterday? Could it be that CCP asked the opinions of the CSM prior to acting? It was made a matter of public record on minerbumping.com and posted to these very forums back in February to mixed reactions.
I take that as a "No" then. Case closed. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3248
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:40:00 -
[1468] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:...sociopaths of this game...
Define 'sociopath' because we can sit here and question each other's psychological states all day long but neither of us are psychologists so neither of us would know sweet **** all about it. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3248
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:41:00 -
[1469] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Do you have evidence that CCP had knowledge of this incident back in february? Do you have evidence that CCP didn't do anything prior to the announcement yesterday? Could it be that CCP asked the opinions of the CSM prior to acting? It was made a matter of public record on minerbumping.com and posted to these very forums back in February to mixed reactions. I take that as a "No" then. Case closed.
You have an unusual method of subjective validation. The way you so blatantly change a 'yes' to a 'no' to satisfy your bias is astonishing. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
768
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:42:00 -
[1470] - Quote
Unfortunately, there will never be a shortage of people like the individuals behind the avatars of Erotica 1 and The Mittani. Individuals that take joy in griefing and bullying for their own amusement. They will take it as far as they can to drive someone to the boiling point and rage. If they can get someone to quit or worse, harm themselves or others in real life, the merrier the "lulz" are. They take ZERO responsibility for their actions, instead laying all responsibility squarely on their victims. So they lose no sleep over it. I hardly doubt you can change these individuals.
However, I am pleasantly surprised to see CCP make this statement against this kind of behavior. Eve is a beautiful game that I play in spite of this. Mostly because I understand how difficult it must be to give this community the freedom to role-play even as a villain, while dealing with individuals with ulterior motives consistently looking for ways to use the game as a tool to inflict real-life grief. |
|
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
526
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:45:00 -
[1471] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Do you have evidence that CCP had knowledge of this incident back in february? Do you have evidence that CCP didn't do anything prior to the announcement yesterday? Could it be that CCP asked the opinions of the CSM prior to acting? It was made a matter of public record on minerbumping.com and posted to these very forums back in February to mixed reactions. I take that as a "No" then. Case closed. You have an unusual method of subjective validation. The way you so blatantly change a 'yes' to a 'no' to satisfy your bias is astonishing.
You didn't provide any evidence that CCP didn't do anything prior to the announcement. And I fail to see how a post on some random minerbumping forum constitue evidence that CCP had knowledge of this incident. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3248
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:45:00 -
[1472] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Do you have evidence that CCP had knowledge of this incident back in february? Do you have evidence that CCP didn't do anything prior to the announcement yesterday? Could it be that CCP asked the opinions of the CSM prior to acting? It was made a matter of public record on minerbumping.com and posted to these very forums back in February to mixed reactions. I take that as a "No" then. Case closed. You have an unusual method of subjective validation. The way you so blatantly change a 'yes' to a 'no' to satisfy your bias is astonishing. You didn't provide any evidence that CCP didn't do anything prior to the announcement. And I fail to see how a post on some random minerbumping forum constitue evidence that CCP had knowledge of this incident.
Failure to see could also indicate blindness. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
526
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:49:00 -
[1473] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:You didn't provide any evidence that CCP didn't do anything prior to the announcement. And I fail to see how a post on some random minerbumping forum constitue evidence that CCP had knowledge of this incident. Failure to see could also indicate blindness.
Correct and I'm very thankful for braille keyboards. Back on topic: Where is your evidence?
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
851
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:49:00 -
[1474] - Quote
Darkopus wrote: The problem is that the sociopaths of this game simply can't draw the line and think they are being clever in their sick games and then when CCP slats them out of the sand go all huffy. Now they come and cry tears saying they want clear definitions only to enable them to work out how they can circumvent them and continue there sick deranged games. Deal with it you tearful pubbies
You do know it is impossible to quantify someones psychological state through internet interaction right? You can't realistically call someone a sociopath, or psychopath, or psychotic based on their actions in game, or in places related to this game. Why? Acting.
In the real world im John Doe, in EVE I am Mario Putzo, when I play EVE I pretend to be an evil space pirate who feasts on tears of other players pretending to be whomever and whatever they want. In the RL I get paid to actually study peoples state of mind, and spent seven years in school to be able to do so.
You know what was one of the most repeated things in school? Don't judge people playing a character, judge them if that character consumes their identity. Since none of us actually have the capacity to know who in this game is actually consumed by their space identity or not, it is impossible to tell if anyone is psychotic.
Hope this helps. |
|
CCP Falcon
6280
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:51:00 -
[1475] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Falcon locked a thread of mine that he claimed was ranting and a 'quitting' thread. While it's true I am leaving, the purpose of the thread was to highlight CCP's inconsistencies in player moderation. Falcon could have locked it for any number of reasons, but the main one he chose, ranting, indicates to me that CCP are unhappy about their player base being informed of this inconsistency. Is it ranting to put them in the spotlight when they have done such? Which essentially amounts to censorship, but it technically isn't until they remove the link in the locked thread. In any case, here it is again: http://remielpollardlives.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/temporary-close.html
If you have an issue with forum moderation, convey it through the correct channels, and it'll be answered.
The correct channel is to file a support ticket under the community and forums category.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Manager -á || -á EVE Illuminati
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
|
GrowlingMadScientist
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 14:57:00 -
[1476] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:GrowlingMadScientist wrote:Oh the delicious sociopath tears in this thread. I see you enjoy tears. Welcome, fellow sociopath.
You could not be further from the truth. I just added this sentence as a - you know - 'educational component'. |
Bayonnefrog
Hedion University Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:04:00 -
[1477] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:Bayonnefrog wrote:Kristalll wrote:Bayonnefrog wrote: Riot Girl, do not shift the blame away from Ero 1 and Co. THEY were the ones who created the mess they find themselves in now, not Ripard. He merely pointed out what happened and articulated why it was wrong.
This just in: Sensationalism is just articulation! If you want to know what the Bonus Room is ACTUALLY about: http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room And this is what the Ero 1 apologists fall back on if someone calls them on it. The fact is that Ripard described in detail and put into context what goes on in the Bonus Room, specifically the one with Sohkar in it, and how wrong it is. So, you are SUPPORTING the idea that having someone sing on teamspeak is torture? This has got to be a troll.
Are you supporting the out of game harassment of the Sohkar bonus room? This has got to be an obtuse Ero 1 "escrow agent." |
Salvos Rhoska
892
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:10:00 -
[1478] - Quote
Bayonnefrog wrote:This has got to be an obtuse Ero 1 "escrow agent."
Well spotted.
It is.
She also runs a twitch channel called "Kristallnacht" in association with the Bonus Room. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht ------------ |
Prince Kobol
1601
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:10:00 -
[1479] - Quote
***Tinfoil Alert***
Yep, dig out that tinfoil because you are going to need it Big Time
Over the last few days a few things have happened that have made me somewhat curious.
When all of this with E1 and Riptarg kicked off I expected to see some kind of report on the TMC.
After all, not every day a current CSM member openly attacks a CSM Runner and one of the most notorious scammers in Eve on their personal blog with the vemon that Riptarg did.
Also when you have a thread that nearly hits 400 posts in a few days, various other well know bloggers write on the subject and a external media outlet such as massively report on it, most would say it was big news and would expect some mention of it on the TMC.
Yet nothing..
You then have this person banned and CCP apparently (sure this can be confirmed) considering if the the EULA/TOS needs adjusting.
I have never know CCP to evaluate the EULA/TOS because of the actions of 1 player. (Again I am sure somebody will correctly if I am wrong)
Yet still no report on the TMC.
Now there could be a number of reasons to this, however what really made me think is that yesterday somebody posted this question on Reddit and in only a few minutes the entire thread was deleted.
Red Flag to a bull.
Now this is were you will need extra layers of tinfoil, I would recommend a Cyberman suit Big smile
In the main discussion about Riptarg's blog E1 mentioned how he had evidence that a Well known Director has been involved with doxing and that he had been blackmailed via eve mail.
Now considering E1 was in Widot one can assume this Well know director was part of GSF.
E1 has been consistent in stating that he left Widot of his own accord, even a couple of directors had approached telling him to stay.
Yet everybody else, including Baltec 1 and Mynnna have stated he was kicked. Mynnna saying that he was headshotted for boasting about his antics in reply to Riptarg' s original blog so I assume it was in relation to the bonus room and what transpired there, and Baltec 1 stating it was due to his boasting and **** posting.
Normally one would presume you would be banned from posting.. actually being kicked from the alliance.. some might say over the top unless of course it ran deeper then that.
One top of that a very helpful Razor member (Thank you for the information) explained in that thread that a person can only be kicked out of the alliance by his CEO. If a GSF Director wanted somebody out they would have ask the CEO of the corp that person was in to kick him and that CEO would be perfectly in his/her right to refuse.
So why did E1's CEO just refuse to kick him if apparently there were no problems as E1 has stated adn that many people wanted his to stay?
You could also ask the question why would any GSF Director want E1 kicked anyway if there were no issue regarding his antics as some CFC members have argued.
So Does E1 have evidence of a Well Known GSF Director doxing?
Was E1 being Blackmailed?
Why was the post about TMC not running the story about E1 deleted from Reddit?
Why has TMC not run any story about what has happened over the last few days?
Told you it was tinfoil |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:11:00 -
[1480] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Darkopus wrote: The problem is that the sociopaths of this game simply can't draw the line and think they are being clever in their sick games and then when CCP slats them out of the sand go all huffy. Now they come and cry tears saying they want clear definitions only to enable them to work out how they can circumvent them and continue there sick deranged games. Deal with it you tearful pubbies
You do know it is impossible to quantify someones psychological state through internet interaction right? You can't realistically call someone a sociopath, or psychopath, or psychotic based on their actions in game, or in places related to this game. Why? Acting. In the real world im John Doe, in EVE I am Mario Putzo, when I play EVE I pretend to be an evil space pirate who feasts on tears of other players pretending to be whomever and whatever they want. In the RL I get paid to actually study peoples state of mind, and spent seven years in school to be able to do so. You know what was one of the most repeated things in school? Don't judge people playing a character, judge them if that character consumes their identity. Since none of us actually have the capacity to know who in this game is actually consumed by their space identity or not, it is impossible to tell if anyone is psychotic. Hope this helps.
so do you think that asking someone on coms to put mayo on their body is being in character or do you think this is just someone getting their rocks off at someone elses pain. What has that got to do with internet spaceships and what part of the game rules is that in ? Its called using common sense and its clear from the actions of some of these "Bonus Round" instigators that they have a very questionable state of mind, you don't need sigmuind freud to point that out unless you really have got a lot of tears in your eyes and can't see the forest for the trees. |
|
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:13:00 -
[1481] - Quote
Think of Eve as a guest house. A funky little B&B with a bit of a roach problem in the kitchen.
All this pro-Erotica spew is like a bunch of very vain, self-entitled cockroaches bitching because the lights got switched on for a bit and the king roach got stomped.
They could just scurry off under the cupboards and chill because soon it will be all dark and cozy again.
Instead they stand out there moaning about it, not realizing they ought to be thankful that CCP didn't bust out a can of Raid (e.g. introducing new rules severely restricting or even banning some of their favourite gameplay). Meanwhile, the guests enjoy stomping the roaches, who appear to be too dumb to realize what's happening. |
Destitute Tehol Beddict
ROC Incorporated The ROC
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:22:00 -
[1482] - Quote
Erotica1 did not survive the CCP Bonus room..
Quote:Hi, Lady Areola Fappington
The EULA has always affected external content to a degree, when that content is shared using our systems. For example when you post a link that contains inappropriate content, even though that content is hosted somewhere outside EVE Online, there's always been potential for disciplinary action. We haven't changed any policies but we do reserve the right, as we always have, to revoke access to our services if they are being used to facilitate something, or share something, that violates our terms of service.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4405694#post4405694
Best Describes the situation IMO
This quote here best describes the line https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4407392#post4407392 ... its subjective but if you can't trust your best judgement then its probably not the right thing to do in the first place. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
421
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:31:00 -
[1483] - Quote
Bayonnefrog wrote:Kristalll wrote:Bayonnefrog wrote:Kristalll wrote:Bayonnefrog wrote: Riot Girl, do not shift the blame away from Ero 1 and Co. THEY were the ones who created the mess they find themselves in now, not Ripard. He merely pointed out what happened and articulated why it was wrong.
This just in: Sensationalism is just articulation! If you want to know what the Bonus Room is ACTUALLY about: http://podborn.com/community/psychopaths-guide-to-the-bonus-room And this is what the Ero 1 apologists fall back on if someone calls them on it. The fact is that Ripard described in detail and put into context what goes on in the Bonus Room, specifically the one with Sohkar in it, and how wrong it is. So, you are SUPPORTING the idea that having someone sing on teamspeak is torture? This has got to be a troll. Are you supporting the out of game harassment of the Sohkar bonus room? This has got to be an obtuse Ero 1 "escrow agent."
So dont use TEAMSPEAK and youre in the clear http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:34:00 -
[1484] - Quote
This is still going huh. Hey nitwits ccp has spoken. They are a company with morals and do not condone the heartless abuse that erotica 1 uses on people for his sick enjoyment. If you do not like it GTFO. These are CCP's rules. No amount of twisting their words around and accusing them of complete BS is going to weasel your ways out of it. Good riddance. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2507
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:38:00 -
[1485] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:***Tinfoil Alert*** Told you it was tinfoil
I too had been wondering at the distinct lack of comment from TMC.
I was wondering if it would be difficult to get a piece out, that wasn't so strongly slanted in one direction, that they were taking there time to get it right.
That said I am pretty sure that they could have done as they did with the drone assist issue. A piece was submitted from either side and folks left to discuss it in the comments.
Only time will tell. Either way that silence is really, really loud Aaaaaaand relax. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
852
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:44:00 -
[1486] - Quote
Darkopus wrote: so do you think that asking someone on coms to put mayo on their body is being in character or do you think this is just someone getting their rocks off at someone elses pain. What has that got to do with internet spaceships and what part of the game rules is that in ? Its called using common sense and its clear from the actions of some of these "Bonus Round" instigators that they have a very questionable state of mind, you don't need sigmuind freud to point that out unless you really have got a lot of tears in your eyes and can't see the forest for the trees.
Ive heard tale of much worse than putting mayo on oneself, or peanut butter. I would honestly say that without actually being able to sit down and talk with Erotica1 in a proper setting that, no this was not abnormal behavior. People as others to do silly stuff all the time with no lasting impact on eithers mental state.
Is someone crazy because they dare someone to drink a whole gallon of Chocolate Milk in one setting, only to watch their friend throw it all up moments after finishing? No. It is a joke. Is someone crazy because they write a ***** on someones head after they passed out from a night of hard drinking? No, it is a joke. Is someone crazy because they make a friend dress in drag for whatever occasion? No, they are British.(and that is a joke)
The fact is it is impossible for any of us to assume what anyone else's state of mind is based on actions on the internet. Its all a show, anonymity allows it to be a show.
It is irrelevant for me to even make these points however because you have already concluded that Erotica1s actions make him a sociopath or whatever it was you said. He might be, he probably isn't because sociopaths tend to have a hard time associating with others at all. This is common in most mentally ill individuals.
The fact that Erotica1 has as many online friends, and acquaintances as he does would lead me to believe he is of sound mental health, and simply does these things for jokes, as many many people do every single day. If he were truly a sociopath, or psychotic he would be unable to be sociable. He would be a socially awkward individual, with limited ability to function in a social setting...I think we can all see that this is not the case.
(note this isn't always the case some mentally ill people have been able to suppress the tendency to be socially awkward, but this is by and far the exception not the rule.) |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
504
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:52:00 -
[1487] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Darkopus wrote: so do you think that asking someone on coms to put mayo on their body is being in character or do you think this is just someone getting their rocks off at someone elses pain. What has that got to do with internet spaceships and what part of the game rules is that in ? Its called using common sense and its clear from the actions of some of these "Bonus Round" instigators that they have a very questionable state of mind, you don't need sigmuind freud to point that out unless you really have got a lot of tears in your eyes and can't see the forest for the trees.
Ive heard tale of much worse than putting mayo on oneself, or peanut butter. I would honestly say that without actually being able to sit down and talk with Erotica1 in a proper setting that, no this was not abnormal behavior. People as others to do silly stuff all the time with no lasting impact on eithers mental state. Is someone crazy because they dare someone to drink a whole gallon of Chocolate Milk in one setting, only to watch their friend throw it all up moments after finishing? No. It is a joke. Is someone crazy because they write a ***** on someones head after they passed out from a night of hard drinking? No, it is a joke. Is someone crazy because they make a friend dress in drag for whatever occasion? No, they are British.(and that is a joke) The fact is it is impossible for any of us to assume what anyone else's state of mind is based on actions on the internet. Its all a show, anonymity allows it to be a show. It is irrelevant for me to even make these points however because you have already concluded that Erotica1s actions make him a sociopath or whatever it was you said. He might be, he probably isn't because sociopaths tend to have a hard time associating with others at all. This is common in most mentally ill individuals. The fact that Erotica1 has as many online friends, and acquaintances as he does would lead me to believe he is of sound mental health, and simply does these things for jokes, as many many people do every single day. If he were truly a sociopath, or psychotic he would be unable to be sociable. He would be a socially awkward individual, with limited ability to function in a social setting...I think we can all see that this is not the case. (note this isn't always the case some mentally ill people have been able to suppress the tendency to be socially awkward, but this is by and far the exception not the rule.)
Which do you think you are better at, internet law or internet psychiatry? |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2138
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:53:00 -
[1488] - Quote
I blame the whole Erotica 1 saga on hi-sec.
I hope I do not get banned for impersonating Baltec 1
I should not smile at my own posts, that is just crazy! This is not a signature. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
852
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:57:00 -
[1489] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote: Which do you think you are better at, internet law or internet psychiatry?
Probably the latter because I practice psychiatry for a living, but like I said, its almost impossible to quantify a persons mental state through the internet. Really to the point it is futile to even try. When one enters the realm of anonymity they can be whatever they want to be without it actually affecting their RL persona whatsoever.
|
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1402
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 15:58:00 -
[1490] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Darkopus wrote: so do you think that asking someone on coms to put mayo on their body is being in character or do you think this is just someone getting their rocks off at someone elses pain. What has that got to do with internet spaceships and what part of the game rules is that in ? Its called using common sense and its clear from the actions of some of these "Bonus Round" instigators that they have a very questionable state of mind, you don't need sigmuind freud to point that out unless you really have got a lot of tears in your eyes and can't see the forest for the trees.
Ive heard tale of much worse than putting mayo on oneself, or peanut butter. I would honestly say that without actually being able to sit down and talk with Erotica1 in a proper setting that, no this was not abnormal behavior. People as others to do silly stuff all the time with no lasting impact on eithers mental state. Is someone crazy because they dare someone to drink a whole gallon of Chocolate Milk in one setting, only to watch their friend throw it all up moments after finishing? No. It is a joke. Is someone crazy because they write a ***** on someones head after they passed out from a night of hard drinking? No, it is a joke. Is someone crazy because they make a friend dress in drag for whatever occasion? No, they are British.(and that is a joke) The fact is it is impossible for any of us to assume what anyone else's state of mind is based on actions on the internet. Its all a show, anonymity allows it to be a show. It is irrelevant for me to even make these points however because you have already concluded that Erotica1s actions make him a sociopath or whatever it was you said. He might be, he probably isn't because sociopaths tend to have a hard time associating with others at all. This is common in most mentally ill individuals. The fact that Erotica1 has as many online friends, and acquaintances as he does would lead me to believe he is of sound mental health, and simply does these things for jokes, as many many people do every single day. If he were truly a sociopath, or psychotic he would be unable to be sociable. He would be a socially awkward individual, with limited ability to function in a social setting...I think we can all see that this is not the case. (note this isn't always the case some mentally ill people have been able to suppress the tendency to be socially awkward, but this is by and far the exception not the rule.) Which do you think you are better at, internet law or internet psychiatry?
Mining.
Just my guess.
|
|
Louis Robichaud
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
213
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:06:00 -
[1491] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:***Tinfoil Alert*** Told you it was tinfoil I too had been wondering at the distinct lack of comment from TMC. I was wondering if it would be difficult to get a piece out, that wasn't so strongly slanted in one direction, that they were taking there time to get it right. That said I am pretty sure that they could have done as they did with the drone assist issue. A piece was submitted from either side and folks left to discuss it in the comments. Only time will tell. Either way that silence is really, really loud
I too have been wondering about that - I don't know about all the tinfoil stuff Prince Kobol posted but... |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2916
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:12:00 -
[1492] - Quote
What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
210
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:15:00 -
[1493] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:
Actually I have done that and I reached the conclusions that have driven my posts. I still do not agree with how this situation was handled.
Dorn I think everyone realizes you do not agree with how this situation was handled by now.
But if you prefer post it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
I am sure it will change everything.
"If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Surtr Svartalfsen
Eristocratic Entropy
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:22:00 -
[1494] - Quote
This is all fine and good, but I've been reporting a player for ingame harassment for months. The last incident occurred while my account was inactive cuz I was tired of it happening. Since I dont know the actions of the Gm's regarding my previous complaints, I can at least assume he was told ONCE over the last 6 months not to contact me, so the 4 messages I came back to when I resubbed my account were 4 more violations of the TOS and the direct instructions of the GM, yet when I submitted my 5th and final complaint, I was asked why his toon wasnt blocked.
1) the account was INACTIVE so i wasnt online to block him 2) I wasnt aware you could block and not have them in your contacts list so I had removed him from my contacts because I had 5 of his alts and 8 friends.
I have been waiting for response from CCP, but they keep telling me to check the support tickets, even after I informed them that I transferred the toons and quit playing. So I have no toons, I paid for a 3 month subscription on a toon that was still getting harassed and CCP has not contacted me with a satisfactory solution.
And as far as them applying the EULA and TOS to out of game, just let one of the GM's contact me and I will let them in on the vitriol and hate I received from the player out of game. I blocked him and took to having my husband logging into my FB account to decline any new friend request because this nut job kept making new accounts there.
So as I said, this is great lip service, but it wasnt applied in my case and after 6 months of asking for help, I'd had enough.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2929
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:24:00 -
[1495] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:he can start up a personal hate campaign against the perpetrators. Funny, I thought that was your department, as evidenced by you and associated cronies "trying" (and failing) to mount a personal hate campaign against Ripard Teg. If at any point you would like to grow up and quit the whole "I know you are but what am I" defense feel free. The fact remains that Ripard singled out an individual. He's a CSM member, so he is held to a higher standard. He shouldn't be picking a personal vendetta against an individual as no individual would stand a chance due to the backing he will automatically get from his position. If he had a problem, he has a direct line to CCP to state to them that there's a problem. He shouldn't have publicly defamed the individual and caused a shitstorm of public outrage. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2916
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:25:00 -
[1496] - Quote
Another new precedent for eve. Become a CSM member, when CCP refuse to act on your will and ban a single individual, simply make an inflammatory blog post with as much emotive false equivocations as possible and spread it to the news media to pressure them.
And CCP will cave.
rip sandbox |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
526
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:25:00 -
[1497] - Quote
Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:And as far as them applying the EULA and TOS to out of game, just let one of the GM's contact me and I will let them in on the vitriol and hate I received from the player out of game. I blocked him and took to having my husband logging into my FB account to decline any new friend request because this nut job kept making new accounts there.
So as I said, this is great lip service, but it wasnt applied in my case and after 6 months of asking for help, I'd had enough.
Go to the police. I'm serious, what you describe (Facebook stalking) can quickly evolve in a very serious issue. Your local authorities will request his information from CCP and (hopefully) take the necessary steps to protect you and your family. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2916
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:26:00 -
[1498] - Quote
Also the magnitude of this problem has just become shockingly clear as Lucas and I are in agreement |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2139
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:26:00 -
[1499] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg
There is only on thing worse than someone doing something wrong, and that is someone else exposing the dirty deed to a wider public.
Hmm, think again gun person. This is not a signature. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
526
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:26:00 -
[1500] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Another new precedent for eve. Become a CSM member, when CCP refuse to act on your will and ban a single individual, simply make an inflammatory blog post with as much emotive false equivocations as possible and spread it to the news media to pressure them.
And CCP will cave.
rip sandbox
How do you know that CCP didn't want to ban Erotica? How does the banning of Erotica kill the sandbox? |
|
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2916
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:31:00 -
[1501] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Another new precedent for eve. Become a CSM member, when CCP refuse to act on your will and ban a single individual, simply make an inflammatory blog post with as much emotive false equivocations as possible and spread it to the news media to pressure them.
And CCP will cave.
rip sandbox How do you know that CCP didn't want to ban Erotica? How does the banning of Erotica kill the sandbox?
I don't think anyone else before has been banned for requesting someone to sing in order to get their stuff / save themselves before, but now there's precedent for banning people for doing that. Of course, it'll be handled by a case by case basis, but it's still a precedent - one that was arrived at due to Ripard Teg abusing his position to create an issue where there was not one. No one batted an eyelid when this bonus room actually happened months ago, it was only after Ripards quite frankly repulsive comparisons to real life torture, and spreading the his highly biased story of the "torture" to news outlets that something happened.
Even the victim himself said that he didn't think it warranted a ban, and that he's fine with it |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
211
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:33:00 -
[1502] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg
Personally I am thankful Ripard brought attention to this situation. It's not like many people read the miner bumping site with any regularity outside of their own little clique.
You also just posted in a way you supposedly find revolting.
Inflammatory and Hysterical. CHECK. Pushing for an individual to be banned. CHECK.
Just saying.
"If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2916
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:35:00 -
[1503] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg There is only on thing worse than someone doing something wrong, and that is someone else exposing the dirty deed to a wider public. Hmm, think again gun person.
Ripard Teg did not merely "expose" a wrong. If he had responsibly reported the issue, and wanted to open a discussion, that would be great. But he opened his piece with literally stating that another player was pure evil, and followed up with literally calling him a torturer, and ended by pleading for the immediate removal of the individual.
That is not responsible journalism, that is not exposing a wrong, that is highly biased, sensationalist dreck. It's clear from the get go that his agenda is to get Erotica1 banned, and that he is willing to use any tactics possible - even horrific ones such as trivialising torture - to accompish it. |
Gostina Mishina
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:39:00 -
[1504] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Probably the latter because I practice psychiatry... More practice, please. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2916
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:42:00 -
[1505] - Quote
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg Personally I am thankful Ripard brought attention to this situation. It's not like many people read the miner bumping site with any regularity outside of their own little clique. You also just posted in a way you supposedly find revolting. Inflammatory and Hysterical. CHECK. Pushing for an individual to be banned. CHECK. Just saying.
My post is not inflammatory and hysterical, the language Ripard used and his goal are a statement of fact - they're there on his own blog post. The "ban him" comment is hypocritical, but a comment by me in a forum isn't comparable to someone in a privileged position taking that request directly to CCP, and then taking it to the wider news media to pressure an action.
I also wouldn't call ripard teg "evil", or call him a "torturer" or anything else, because that's insane and sensationalist. I find what he did incredibly distasteful, and he has a history of doing it - last year he called up mental imagery of **** to try and push an agenda regarding ganking industrial ships. It's rather gross if you ask me.
I also think it is counterproductive to his own goals, as it's hard to have a reasonable discussion about an issue when people start throwing around that kind of language. We can discuss if an issue should be allowable or not without screaming that the other side are literally evil monsters destroying human lives. Or at least I thought we could... our esteemed CSM member seems to disagree |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2507
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:43:00 -
[1506] - Quote
Quote:That is not responsible journalism
I don't believe he is a journalist. Merely a blogger stating an opinion.
That more people agree with his stance, than disagree, surely would point to the fact that your opinion is in the minority.
Whilst that is hard to take, nothing has changed. The number of people going as far as Erotica1 is so tiny that the sandbox is stilll intact.
You might not like it. That doesn't mean that CCP's decision was wrong or that your game has been harmed. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Salvos Rhoska
892
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:44:00 -
[1507] - Quote
I can count the hate brigade against Ripard on two hands :P
Give it up. It's not going anywhere :) ------------ |
Surtr Svartalfsen
Eristocratic Entropy
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:46:00 -
[1508] - Quote
In regards to my situation, I asked first that ccp allow me to just change my toon name so that the harassing player would have a difficult time locating me to msg me on all the new accounts he kept making. My request for that solution, which would have easily and perhaps permanently fixed the issue months ago was rejected.
Why I am I still here an posting if I have quit playing? I am waiting for a final response from CCP regarding a refund of my 6 months of subscriptions (2 toons, 3 months each) that I paid for in advance. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2916
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:53:00 -
[1509] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Quote:That is not responsible journalism I don't believe he is a journalist. Merely a blogger stating an opinion. That more people agree with his stance, than disagree, surely would point to the fact that your opinion is in the minority. Whilst that is hard to take, nothing has changed. The number of people going as far as Erotica1 is so tiny that the sandbox is stilll intact. You might not like it. That doesn't mean that CCP's decision was wrong or that your game has been harmed.
Fair enough, his job isn't that of a professional journalist, but I'd expect more than sensationalist, irresponsible ranting and raving from someone who is supposed to understand and represent the community to CCP, and to a lesser degree represent the game and ccp as a whole.
That more people agree with him than not is a fallacy. It's also irrelevant, as you can completely agree with the idea behind it - that the bonus room was too far and shouldn't be allowed - without agreeing with the methods he used in presenting it.
If I were to take a page of of Ripards Book of Argumentation Strageties, I could demonstrate how the amount of people agreeing with something doesn't make it right with oh so many comparisons to things majorities have agreed with in the past, but it'd be sensationalist to do so, and very disrespectful to those issues. So I won't. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
527
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:55:00 -
[1510] - Quote
Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:Why I am I still here an posting if I have quit playing? I am waiting for a final response from CCP regarding a refund of my 6 months of subscriptions (2 toons, 3 months each) that I paid for in advance.
You should open a petition about this, posting on the forums will not help you in any way. If you need help with filing a petition, don't hesitate to evemail me. |
|
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
212
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:56:00 -
[1511] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Helena Russell Makanen wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg Personally I am thankful Ripard brought attention to this situation. It's not like many people read the miner bumping site with any regularity outside of their own little clique. You also just posted in a way you supposedly find revolting. Inflammatory and Hysterical. CHECK. Pushing for an individual to be banned. CHECK. Just saying. My post is not inflammatory and hysterical, the language Ripard used and his goal are a statement of fact - they're there on his own blog post. The "ban him" comment is hypocritical, but a comment by me in a forum isn't comparable to someone in a privileged position taking that request directly to CCP, and then taking it to the wider news media to pressure an action. I also wouldn't call ripard teg "evil", or call him a "torturer" or anything else, because that's insane and sensationalist. I find what he did incredibly distasteful, and he has a history of doing it - last year he called up mental imagery of **** to try and push an agenda regarding ganking industrial ships. It's rather gross if you ask me. I also think it is counterproductive to his own goals, as it's hard to have a reasonable discussion about an issue when people start throwing around that kind of language. We can discuss if an issue should be allowable or not without screaming that the other side are literally evil monsters destroying human lives. Or at least I thought we could... our esteemed CSM member seems to disagree
I disagree. Your posts are full of inflammatory and hysterical comments. But have it your way. Thanks for your opinion. Free speech is a good thing isn't it?
"If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Salvos Rhoska
896
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:56:00 -
[1512] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Handful of Bonus Room associates who accused there was a witch-hunt on Erotica1, now trying to incite a witch-hunt on Ripard Teg
:D ------------ |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2511
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 16:58:00 -
[1513] - Quote
Quote:Fair enough, his job isn't that of a professional journalist, but I'd expect more than sensationalist, irresponsible ranting and raving from someone who is supposed to understand and represent the community to CCP, and to a lesser degree represent the game and ccp as a whole.
I do understand your point. Indeed, in the first threadnought I commented that the use of the word "torture" was probably inflammatory.
That said, he was stating an opinion. I've heard his interview on the CapStable podcast and it DOES seem that he has some pretty strongly held opinions (also the interviewers seemed biased in his direction.)
Ultimately it doesn't come down to a legal or psychiatric evaluation of any of the personalities involved.
It comes down to whether CCP are comfortable with something, or not.
They clearly weren't. It seems that the majority of the (forum-vocal) player base weren't either. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Surtr Svartalfsen
Eristocratic Entropy
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:04:00 -
[1514] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:Why I am I still here an posting if I have quit playing? I am waiting for a final response from CCP regarding a refund of my 6 months of subscriptions (2 toons, 3 months each) that I paid for in advance. You should open a petition about this, posting on the forums will not help you in any way. If you need help with filing a petition, don't hesitate to evemail me.
I did have a petition about it. I transferred the toons and sent in a petition explaining it, the reply is that I should check the petition and that it was being handled and that I shouldnt open a NEW petition. Since I cant access the old one, was told SPECIFICALLY NOT to open a new petition, I am at a loss as to what to do other than post in the only forum available to me. |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:08:00 -
[1515] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg There is only on thing worse than someone doing something wrong, and that is someone else exposing the dirty deed to a wider public. Hmm, think again gun person. Ripard Teg did not merely "expose" a wrong. If he had responsibly reported the issue, and wanted to open a discussion, that would be great. But he opened his piece with literally stating that another player was pure evil, and followed up with literally calling him a torturer, and ended by pleading for the immediate removal of the individual. That is not responsible journalism, that is not exposing a wrong, that is highly biased, sensationalist dreck. It's clear from the get go that his agenda is to get Erotica1 banned, and that he is willing to use any tactics possible - even horrific ones such as trivialising torture - to accompish it.
yet more tears...................... where shall i store all these juicy flavoursome tears.
Odd how the E1 sycophants cry when they got stung, but laugh when they were dealing out the non game realted public humiliation pain to others. its like an outerspace version of poetic justice. |
Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:12:00 -
[1516] - Quote
Peoples tears standards are getting lower each month.. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
852
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:12:00 -
[1517] - Quote
I think its funny to see all these carebears going on about harvesting tears.
Just goes to show you it was never about keeping the community clean and all about "winning" an internet fight against the boogyman. |
Prince Kobol
1606
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:17:00 -
[1518] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg There is only on thing worse than someone doing something wrong, and that is someone else exposing the dirty deed to a wider public. Hmm, think again gun person. Ripard Teg did not merely "expose" a wrong. If he had responsibly reported the issue, and wanted to open a discussion, that would be great. But he opened his piece with literally stating that another player was pure evil, and followed up with literally calling him a torturer, and ended by pleading for the immediate removal of the individual. That is not responsible journalism, that is not exposing a wrong, that is highly biased, sensationalist dreck. It's clear from the get go that his agenda is to get Erotica1 banned, and that he is willing to use any tactics possible - even horrific ones such as trivialising torture - to accompish it.
Since when did Riptarg become a journalist and not just a blogger? |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2558
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:22:00 -
[1519] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:...but I'd expect more than sensationalist, irresponsible ranting and raving from someone who is supposed to understand and represent the community to CCP...
...That more people agree with him than not is a fallacy...
Really?
I'm inclined to disagree, considering the vocal majority of petulant children that have come out in support of his little rant, to the point that CCP ultimately caved to them.
I'd say that Ripard is representing his chosen fan base rather appropriately, regardless of what some of us might think about this whole situation. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruitng members for lowsec PvP operations. Newbie friendly, free T1 frigate and dessy hangar, solo tutoring and PvP classes for new members. Join our in game channel 'weflyrifters' and speak to a recruiter today. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2929
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:25:00 -
[1520] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Rekt.
Leave as you said you would, while you have even a single shred of dignity or credibility left.
Whelp, I asked you a question. What's the alternative explanation? Also, I said I'm leaving EVE, yes, and I won't be logging in again. Never said anything about the forums. Actually, if you read back in this very thread, Malcanis quite heavily implies that your deductions is entirely correct. It's pretty much the closest to an outright statement of the case without breaching the NDA.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
162
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:26:00 -
[1521] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg
This ^
If he runs for CSM I will support anyone who runs against him. Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
593
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:28:00 -
[1522] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Also, I said I'm leaving EVE, yes, and I won't be logging in again. Never said anything about the forums. The drama llama lives.
Guys, I am taking a stand. I am going to quit this game unless my demands are met. But I will hang around the forums because even though I quit the game, I still want to talk about it all the time.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
162
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:29:00 -
[1523] - Quote
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:Dorn Val wrote:
Actually I have done that and I reached the conclusions that have driven my posts. I still do not agree with how this situation was handled.
Dorn I think everyone realizes you do not agree with how this situation was handled by now. But if you prefer post it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I am sure it will change everything.
Dorn Val looks at your corporation and wants you to point to the doll and show everyone where the miner bumpers touched you :) Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2930
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:33:00 -
[1524] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:but in this case it was done in the name of EVE saying it was part of the game. Thus CCP as any good comopany trying to protect its integrity and reputation looked at it, and their evaluation was "this is too far and could damage us, bring EVE and CCP into potential disrepute" and so they dealt with it.
If all this bonus bullshit was done entirely inside EVE, no recordings made public and done as a true in game in character scam do you think this conversation would be happening.
Some sicko's couldn't understand where the game ends and thus stepped opver the mark and got bitchslapped by the "owners" of the sandbox. Now their sycophant followers can't hack this and are feeding us all their tears.
You can play at whatever floats your boat in this sandbox, but you take it somewhere that CCP doesn't like and do so in the name of the game when what you are doing is nothing to do with the game and everything to do with publically humiliating the actual person driving the character rather than the character then you will get squeezed.
The problem is that the sociopaths of this game simply can't draw the line and think they are being clever in their sick games and then when CCP slats them out of the sand go all huffy. Now they come and cry tears saying they want clear definitions only to enable them to work out how they can circumvent them and continue there sick deranged games. Deal with it you tearful pubbies OK, so what if a non-eve player takes EVE players into TS rooms and harasses them? Or joins in on EVE players in public TS chatroom and harasses them? Are CCP going to step in there? No.
What about if (or in the hundreds of occasions this has happened in the past) an EVE player on a third party blog or forum throws personal attacks at another EVE player, are they going to step in? No. What about if someone were to harass another EVE player on twitter? No, they wouldn't.
The fact is they've stated on many occasions that they do not deal with third party services. Read Remiels blog, and you'll see pretty damn clearly what their response is. So if they are doing so now, their rules have changed, so where is the new line. What is and isn't considered third party to EVE?
By the way, it's all well and good for you to just insult everyone who isn't agreeing with you, but how the **** does that make you any different? Hypocrite. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
162
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:37:00 -
[1525] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:I think its funny to see all these carebears going on about harvesting tears.
Just goes to show you it was never about keeping the community clean and all about "winning" an internet fight against the boogyman.
...a fight that none of them had the stones to handle on their own... Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1766
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:39:00 -
[1526] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: By the way, it's all well and good for you to just insult everyone who isn't agreeing with you, but how the **** does that make you any different? Hypocrite.
Yeah but these outside people don't get to participate in the Butterfly Effect, where you're encouraged by CCP to be a Villain till CCP smashes your butterfly with a hammer. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2512
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:39:00 -
[1527] - Quote
Quote:OK, so what if a non-eve player takes EVE players into TS rooms and harasses them? Or joins in on EVE players in public TS chatroom and harasses them? Are CCP going to step in there? No.
What about if (or in the hundreds of occasions this has happened in the past) an EVE player on a third party blog or forum throws personal attacks at another EVE player, are they going to step in? No. What about if someone were to harass another EVE player on twitter? No, they wouldn't.
The fact is they've stated on many occasions that they do not deal with third party services. Read Remiels blog, and you'll see pretty damn clearly what their response is. So if they are doing so now, their rules have changed, so where is the new line. What is and isn't considered third party to EVE?
By the way, it's all well and good for you to just insult everyone who isn't agreeing with you, but how the **** does that make you any different? Hypocrite.
1. If a non Eve player starts something then CCP can't do anything because they have no action available to them.
2. Personal attacks (say throwing out 15 responses on a forum) do not have the same invested, intense and unpleasant effects that Erotica1's bonus room have.
3. If someone is harrassing someone on Twitter is a matter for Twitter (and or the authorities) and not CCP.
Clear enough for you? Aaaaaaand relax. |
Amyclas Amatin
Beyond New Frontier
191
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:43:00 -
[1528] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:you to just insult everyone who isn't agreeing with you, but how the **** does that make you any different? Hypocrite.
1. If a non Eve player starts something then CCP can't do anything because they have no action available to them.
2. Personal attacks (say throwing out 15 responses on a forum) do not have the same invested, intense and unpleasant effects that Erotica1's bonus room have.
3. If someone is harrassing someone on Twitter is a matter for Twitter (and or the authorities) and not CCP.
Clear enough for you?[/quote]
People still think the bonus room is a bad thing? No one forces anyone to go into the bonus room. The only thing keeping a "victim" there is desperation over virtual assets. The same "duress" could be asserted on a ransom victim caught in a gank or gatecamp where their virtual property is in danger, and they are relatively powerless in the situation. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2512
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:43:00 -
[1529] - Quote
I'll delete that one due to forum oddness. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2514
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:47:00 -
[1530] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:Jayem See wrote:
1. If a non Eve player starts something then CCP can't do anything because they have no action available to them.
2. Personal attacks (say throwing out 15 responses on a forum) do not have the same invested, intense and unpleasant effects that Erotica1's bonus room have.
3. If someone is harrassing someone on Twitter is a matter for Twitter (and or the authorities) and not CCP.
Clear enough for you?
People still think the bonus room is a bad thing? No one forces anyone to go into the bonus room. The only thing keeping a "victim" there is desperation over virtual assets. The same "duress" could be asserted on a ransom victim caught in a gank or gatecamp where their virtual property is in danger, and they are relatively powerless in the situation.
This argument has been done to death. Most people's objections have nothing to do with being scammed, ransomed or even ransomed and then ganked.
Most people's objections come down to the continued application of pressure after the event. I am sorry you find it normal to behave that way - a lot of people don't. Aaaaaaand relax. |
|
Amyclas Amatin
Beyond New Frontier
191
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:49:00 -
[1531] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:
This argument has been done to death. Most people's objections have nothing to do with being scammed, ransomed or even ransomed and then ganked.
Most people's objections come down to the continued application of pressure after the event. I am sorry you find it normal to behave that way - a lot of people don't.
I see the bonus room as a continuation of a scam, the victim fell for the isk doubling trick a few dozen times, so the scammer proceeds to relieve him of everything he owns - via scamming. The pressure is part of the scam and part of the game. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Surtr Svartalfsen
Eristocratic Entropy
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:50:00 -
[1532] - Quote
As a female Eve player and a gamer of over 30 years, I expect and tolerate a large amount of what might normally be considered harassment. I am quite used to playing in an environment where players will make off color or sexual references. Sometimes they do it because they want to see if thy can "get your goat", sometimes they are just morons that dont know how to relate to someone that is female other than as a sex object. In my year of playing Eve, I've encountered many people along that spectrum. In my case, the players i value and interact with are those that can be comfortable with my gender and can still see me as a damn good pilot.
As I've told many players that tried to push the issue. My sex is only relevant if you think you have a chance at breeding me.. since I am likely twice your age and married, it isnt likely to happen so get over it. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
126
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:51:00 -
[1533] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Also, I said I'm leaving EVE, yes, and I won't be logging in again. Never said anything about the forums. The drama llama lives. Guys, I am taking a stand. I am going to quit this game unless my demands are met. But I will hang around the forums because even though I quit the game, I still want to talk about it all the time.
Guys, I'm taking my toys and I'm leaving. Eve life has no meaning for me now that the Precious isn't here anymore. It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2514
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:53:00 -
[1534] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:Jayem See wrote:
This argument has been done to death. Most people's objections have nothing to do with being scammed, ransomed or even ransomed and then ganked.
Most people's objections come down to the continued application of pressure after the event. I am sorry you find it normal to behave that way - a lot of people don't.
I see the bonus room as a continuation of a scam, the victim fell for the isk doubling trick a few dozen times, so the scammer proceeds to relieve him of everything he owns - via scamming. The pressure is part of the scam and part of the game.
Except the scam has been completed. The rest of the events that ake place are purely for the pleasure of the protagonists.
Erotica1 already came out and said that if he didn't continue the charade then it would be instantly outed as a scam and he couldn't have that. Otherwise his reputation would be for nothing.
The application of pressure to maintain one's reputation (in order to keep maintining the scam), regardless of the distress of the victim is what some people objectionable. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
126
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:54:00 -
[1535] - Quote
Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:As a female Eve player and a gamer of over 30 years, I expect and tolerate a large amount of what might normally be considered harassment. I am quite used to playing in an environment where players will make off color or sexual references. Sometimes they do it because they want to see if thy can "get your goat", sometimes they are just morons that dont know how to relate to someone that is female other than as a sex object. In my year of playing Eve, I've encountered many people along that spectrum. In my case, the players i value and interact with are those that can be comfortable with my gender and can still see me as a damn good pilot.
As I've told many players that tried to push the issue. My sex is only relevant if you think you have a chance at breeding me.. since I am likely twice your age and married, it isnt likely to happen so get over it.
Breeding you? I can just see that conversation on comms...
Good for you, I hope you stick with the game Eve needs good pilots
It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2932
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:56:00 -
[1536] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:1. If a non Eve player starts something then CCP can't do anything because they have no action available to them. No, but they are still defaming EVE right? So CCP would want to react.
Jayem See wrote:2. Personal attacks (say throwing out 15 responses on a forum) do not have the same invested, intense and unpleasant effects that Erotica1's bonus room have. Why not? Someone could hound another player on a forum or a blog, and they could even do so after scamming them out of some stuff. Why does it matter if it was on voice comms or not? The situation is still the exact same thing. At no point does the "victim" have his freedom to simply walk away taken from him.
Jayem See wrote:3. If someone is harrassing someone on Twitter is a matter for Twitter (and or the authorities) and not CCP. And if someone is harassing someone else on teamspeak, that's not a matter for CCP, that's a matter for the authorities and the owner of the specific teamspeak server. How can you not see that this is absolutely identical?
Jayem See wrote:Clear enough for you? Clear as mud, thanks.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
127
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:59:00 -
[1537] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Darkopus wrote:but in this case it was done in the name of EVE saying it was part of the game. Thus CCP as any good comopany trying to protect its integrity and reputation looked at it, and their evaluation was "this is too far and could damage us, bring EVE and CCP into potential disrepute" and so they dealt with it.
If all this bonus bullshit was done entirely inside EVE, no recordings made public and done as a true in game in character scam do you think this conversation would be happening.
Some sicko's couldn't understand where the game ends and thus stepped opver the mark and got bitchslapped by the "owners" of the sandbox. Now their sycophant followers can't hack this and are feeding us all their tears.
You can play at whatever floats your boat in this sandbox, but you take it somewhere that CCP doesn't like and do so in the name of the game when what you are doing is nothing to do with the game and everything to do with publically humiliating the actual person driving the character rather than the character then you will get squeezed.
The problem is that the sociopaths of this game simply can't draw the line and think they are being clever in their sick games and then when CCP slats them out of the sand go all huffy. Now they come and cry tears saying they want clear definitions only to enable them to work out how they can circumvent them and continue there sick deranged games. Deal with it you tearful pubbies OK, so what if a non-eve player takes EVE players into TS rooms and harasses them? Or joins in on EVE players in public TS chatroom and harasses them? Are CCP going to step in there? No. What about if (or in the hundreds of occasions this has happened in the past) an EVE player on a third party blog or forum throws personal attacks at another EVE player, are they going to step in? No. What about if someone were to harass another EVE player on twitter? No, they wouldn't. The fact is they've stated on many occasions that they do not deal with third party services. Read Remiels blog, and you'll see pretty damn clearly what their response is. So if they are doing so now, their rules have changed, so where is the new line. What is and isn't considered third party to EVE? By the way, it's all well and good for you to just insult everyone who isn't agreeing with you, but how the **** does that make you any different? Hypocrite.
Oh it's the "what if" guy that pestered Malcanis out of the thread last night. What if you take your myriad of questions to a GM or start a bonus room and see how far you can push it until you reach THE LINE. Why pester innocent Eve folk with you incessant neediness?
Take some responsibility for yourself and go find THE LINE. Why are you such a follower that you need your betters to explain it all to you? It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
163
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 17:59:00 -
[1538] - Quote
Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:As a female Eve player and a gamer of over 30 years, I expect and tolerate a large amount of what might normally be considered harassment.
If you ever want to get into W space then put in an application with Probe Patrol. Flying with female pilots is no big deal for us (we have one in the corp currently, and we've been in alliances with several). They are every bit as good in PVP as their male counterparts. Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Amyclas Amatin
Beyond New Frontier
191
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:00:00 -
[1539] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:Jayem See wrote:
This argument has been done to death. Most people's objections have nothing to do with being scammed, ransomed or even ransomed and then ganked.
Most people's objections come down to the continued application of pressure after the event. I am sorry you find it normal to behave that way - a lot of people don't.
I see the bonus room as a continuation of a scam, the victim fell for the isk doubling trick a few dozen times, so the scammer proceeds to relieve him of everything he owns - via scamming. The pressure is part of the scam and part of the game. Except the scam has been completed. The rest of the events that take place are purely for the pleasure of the protagonists. Erotica1 already came out and said that if he didn't continue the charade then it would be instantly outed as a scam and he couldn't have that. Otherwise his reputation would be for nothing. The application of pressure to maintain one's reputation (in order to keep maintining the scam), regardless of the distress of the victim is what some people objectionable.
That is a valid way of seeing it. Erotica1 can never admit to scamming, so she puts the victim into an unwinnable "game" for him to lose. Thereby maintaining the illusion of the scam.
But in a universe such as Eve where scamming and all forms of in-game disruptive play is allowed as part of inter-player hostilities, is such pressure when applied to scamming a victim undue or even unexpected? For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Vara Vampira
STEEL CITY. DARKNESS.
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:00:00 -
[1540] - Quote
So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me? Support Erotica 1, remove Ripard Teg from CSM. |
|
Drone 16
Law Dogz
127
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:01:00 -
[1541] - Quote
Vara Vampira wrote:So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me?
No It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
67
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:01:00 -
[1542] - Quote
Danalee wrote:olan2005 wrote:3rd party being keyword. It was erotica1 himself who published the evidence to damn him , jester put that evidence in his blog, put erotica1 posted and recorded the ts himself. making it 1st party evidence Wait what?! Erotica = EVE ONLINE, The game? What trickery is this? Are we all in the matrix or something? D. Edit: 3rd party = Teamspeak, facebook, blogs, etc...
thats 3rd pary software , The publication in question was first party. As in the player who got banned published the evidence himself. Its like a criminal taking A selfy in the middle of a crime . You can bet the prosecutor and cops would use it in court |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
594
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:01:00 -
[1543] - Quote
Vara Vampira wrote:So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me? Yes. Immediately. Maybe sooner. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Amyclas Amatin
Beyond New Frontier
191
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:02:00 -
[1544] - Quote
Vara Vampira wrote:So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me?
He could go to his local authorities to get you to stop harassing him, or even file a suit against you. I'm not sure how the game development company that you all play with can get involved. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2517
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:02:00 -
[1545] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:1. If a non Eve player starts something then CCP can't do anything because they have no action available to them. No, but they are still defaming EVE right? So CCP would want to react. Jayem See wrote:2. Personal attacks (say throwing out 15 responses on a forum) do not have the same invested, intense and unpleasant effects that Erotica1's bonus room have. Why not? Someone could hound another player on a forum or a blog, and they could even do so after scamming them out of some stuff. Why does it matter if it was on voice comms or not? The situation is still the exact same thing. At no point does the "victim" have his freedom to simply walk away taken from him. Jayem See wrote:3. If someone is harrassing someone on Twitter is a matter for Twitter (and or the authorities) and not CCP. And if someone is harassing someone else on teamspeak, that's not a matter for CCP, that's a matter for the authorities and the owner of the specific teamspeak server. How can you not see that this is absolutely identical? Jayem See wrote:Clear enough for you? Clear as mud, thanks.
1. They might want to defend their player but they have literally no action available to them as the person is a non-Eve player.
2. If someone can manage the level of intensity that Ero1 managed, by posting on a forum, I would be amazed. The whole reason that Ero1's scam worked is because of being on comms.
3. The reason that this matters is because the whole point of the bonus room is to break someone into leaving. This matters because Ero1 operates within the Eve universe. His victims are Eve players, the reason for making it so intense is to protect his reputation so that he can continue to perpetuate the scam.
Them's the apples. Aaaaaaand relax. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
67
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:05:00 -
[1546] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Darkopus wrote:but in this case it was done in the name of EVE saying it was part of the game. Thus CCP as any good comopany trying to protect its integrity and reputation looked at it, and their evaluation was "this is too far and could damage us, bring EVE and CCP into potential disrepute" and so they dealt with it.
If all this bonus bullshit was done entirely inside EVE, no recordings made public and done as a true in game in character scam do you think this conversation would be happening.
Some sicko's couldn't understand where the game ends and thus stepped opver the mark and got bitchslapped by the "owners" of the sandbox. Now their sycophant followers can't hack this and are feeding us all their tears.
You can play at whatever floats your boat in this sandbox, but you take it somewhere that CCP doesn't like and do so in the name of the game when what you are doing is nothing to do with the game and everything to do with publically humiliating the actual person driving the character rather than the character then you will get squeezed.
The problem is that the sociopaths of this game simply can't draw the line and think they are being clever in their sick games and then when CCP slats them out of the sand go all huffy. Now they come and cry tears saying they want clear definitions only to enable them to work out how they can circumvent them and continue there sick deranged games. Deal with it you tearful pubbies OK, so what if a non-eve player takes EVE players into TS rooms and harasses them? Or joins in on EVE players in public TS chatroom and harasses them? Are CCP going to step in there? No. What about if (or in the hundreds of occasions this has happened in the past) an EVE player on a third party blog or forum throws personal attacks at another EVE player, are they going to step in? No. What about if someone were to harass another EVE player on twitter? No, they wouldn't. The fact is they've stated on many occasions that they do not deal with third party services. Read Remiels blog, and you'll see pretty damn clearly what their response is. So if they are doing so now, their rules have changed, so where is the new line. What is and isn't considered third party to EVE? By the way, it's all well and good for you to just insult everyone who isn't agreeing with you, but how the **** does that make you any different? Hypocrite.
only if your stupid enough to publish said insults yourself and there severe enough to warrant it . Erotica1 when out of his way to brag about it . Provided the evidence that damned him. himself. Get it yet . If you gunna use 3rd party software ,sites to be a ass, DONT SPREAD IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET , then the likely hood CCP will intervene is minimal
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2932
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:05:00 -
[1547] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Oh it's the "what if" guy that pestered Malcanis out of the thread last night. What if you take your myriad of questions to a GM or start a bonus room and see how far you can push it until you reach THE LINE. Why pester innocent Eve folk with you incessant neediness?
Take some responsibility for yourself and go find THE LINE. Why are you such a follower that you need your betters to explain it all to you? What if I continue to express myself however and wherever I like?
I happen to believe it's not a responsible decision to state that nothing changed, yet clearly ban someone for something that was not an issue last month, then state absolutely no idea of where the new line stands. Some people seem to think it covers all situations where anything out of game is requested, some seem to think it only covers teamspeak, some think it covers only extreme situations.
It's in the players best interests to get a straight answer from CCP, and if it wasn't for the fact that you guys have such a hate on for Erotica 1, you'd be bitching at CCP for exactly the same reasons. I know this, because this is always the response. If CCP even release a tiny patch to change the spelling of a tutorial mission half the community flies of the handle about how CCP aren't being specific enough.
If you don't like it, that's your problem. Deal with it, and the "report post button is up there /\ if you feel I should be made to shut up. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Surtr Svartalfsen
Eristocratic Entropy
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:06:00 -
[1548] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:As a female Eve player and a gamer of over 30 years, I expect and tolerate a large amount of what might normally be considered harassment. If you ever want to get into W space then put in an application with Probe Patrol. Flying with female pilots is no big deal for us (we have one in the corp currently, and we've been in alliances with several). They are every bit as good in PVP as their male counterparts.
Probe Patrol rocks. I was renting one of your C2 WH and really liked the pilots. My old corp is still there. I gave away my toons sine I wasnt getting any satisfaction from CCP about my issue. I even had letters from other pilots supporting my cause and saying that the dude was over the top.
I'm still waiting for some sort of response from CCP, but am feeling a bit bent out of shape since I can't use my old toons that I'd trained for over a year a each. I think my request for toon renaming was very reasonable. |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:09:00 -
[1549] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Darkopus wrote:but in this case it was done in the name of EVE saying it was part of the game. Thus CCP as any good comopany trying to protect its integrity and reputation looked at it, and their evaluation was "this is too far and could damage us, bring EVE and CCP into potential disrepute" and so they dealt with it.
If all this bonus bullshit was done entirely inside EVE, no recordings made public and done as a true in game in character scam do you think this conversation would be happening.
Some sicko's couldn't understand where the game ends and thus stepped opver the mark and got bitchslapped by the "owners" of the sandbox. Now their sycophant followers can't hack this and are feeding us all their tears.
You can play at whatever floats your boat in this sandbox, but you take it somewhere that CCP doesn't like and do so in the name of the game when what you are doing is nothing to do with the game and everything to do with publically humiliating the actual person driving the character rather than the character then you will get squeezed.
The problem is that the sociopaths of this game simply can't draw the line and think they are being clever in their sick games and then when CCP slats them out of the sand go all huffy. Now they come and cry tears saying they want clear definitions only to enable them to work out how they can circumvent them and continue there sick deranged games. Deal with it you tearful pubbies OK, so what if a non-eve player takes EVE players into TS rooms and harasses them? Or joins in on EVE players in public TS chatroom and harasses them? Are CCP going to step in there? No. What about if (or in the hundreds of occasions this has happened in the past) an EVE player on a third party blog or forum throws personal attacks at another EVE player, are they going to step in? No. What about if someone were to harass another EVE player on twitter? No, they wouldn't. The fact is they've stated on many occasions that they do not deal with third party services. Read Remiels blog, and you'll see pretty damn clearly what their response is. So if they are doing so now, their rules have changed, so where is the new line. What is and isn't considered third party to EVE? By the way, it's all well and good for you to just insult everyone who isn't agreeing with you, but how the **** does that make you any different? Hypocrite.
Ah now the tears have a somewhat bitterness to them..........................
you are comparing apples with oranges.
This whole bonus room farce was done and touted as being part of EVE. Thats what you were all screaming in threadnaught version 1. Its game related so its not harrasment because eve is a dark place.
OK so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships............
You see this is where it crosses the lines of the game. The E1 camp was al loud and vocal about how this was Eve and Eve is dark and dangerous, yet those actions described above have nothing to do with the game at all. All you are trying to do now is wash that part out as if its not relevant to the topic in hand when it is the key issue that differentiates what is game and what is just someone getting perverse kicks out of mentally distressing another "real person". Not a character a person.
So yeah carry on trying to justify it with your non related case studies all you like, but no one with a shred of human decency will fall for your level of bullshit |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2932
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:09:00 -
[1550] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:only if your stupid enough to publish said insults yourself and there severe enough to warrant it . Erotica1 when out of his way to brag about it . Provided the evidence that damned him. himself. Get it yet . If you gunna use 3rd party software ,sites to be a ass, DONT SPREAD IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET , then the likely hood CCP will intervene is minimal So your stance is "harassing other players is fine, just don't publicise it". Righto, I'll add that the the ever growing list of individual interpretations of their ruling.
Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2517
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:11:00 -
[1551] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:only if your stupid enough to publish said insults yourself and there severe enough to warrant it . Erotica1 when out of his way to brag about it . Provided the evidence that damned him. himself. Get it yet . If you gunna use 3rd party software ,sites to be a ass, DONT SPREAD IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET , then the likely hood CCP will intervene is minimal So your stance is "harassing other players is fine, just don't publicise it". Righto, I'll add that the the ever growing list of individual interpretations of their ruling. Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.
I've been purposely trying to avoid saying that. I knew somebody would though. Aaaaaaand relax. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
67
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:12:00 -
[1552] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:only if your stupid enough to publish said insults yourself and there severe enough to warrant it . Erotica1 when out of his way to brag about it . Provided the evidence that damned him. himself. Get it yet . If you gunna use 3rd party software ,sites to be a ass, DONT SPREAD IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET , then the likely hood CCP will intervene is minimal So your stance is "harassing other players is fine, just don't publicise it". Righto, I'll add that the the ever growing list of individual interpretations of their ruling. Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.
No its not alright . It still being a punch of Narcissistic prick. However without evidence provided by the perpetrator it will be a hell of a lot harder for them to intervene |
Vara Vampira
STEEL CITY. DARKNESS.
13
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:13:00 -
[1553] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:Vara Vampira wrote:So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me? He could go to his local authorities to get you to stop harassing him, or even file a suit against you. I'm not sure how the game development company that you all play with can get involved.
local authorities I would understand of getting involved if it gets to that level. However if CCP decides to play the role of my mum in the IRL world then I would need a prompt ban and a boot out the door.
The root cause of all these posts (Erotica's bonus rooms) Never reached the level that would Require CCP to intervene. Why now make up some new rules that would ban quite a few players. No more singing ransoms, etc. Unless its death threats or life threatening CCP needs to GTFO on the matter.
Support Erotica 1, remove Ripard Teg from CSM. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2932
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:13:00 -
[1554] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:Ah now the tears have a somewhat bitterness to them..........................
you are comparing apples with oranges.
This whole bonus room farce was done and touted as being part of EVE. Thats what you were all screaming in threadnaught version 1. Its game related so its not harrasment because eve is a dark place.
OK so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships............
You see this is where it crosses the lines of the game. The E1 camp was al loud and vocal about how this was Eve and Eve is dark and dangerous, yet those actions described above have nothing to do with the game at all. All you are trying to do now is wash that part out as if its not relevant to the topic in hand when it is the key issue that differentiates what is game and what is just someone getting perverse kicks out of mentally distressing another "real person". Not a character a person.
So yeah carry on trying to justify it with your non related case studies all you like, but no one with a shred of human decency will fall for your level of bullshit Oh OK, so you agree with me? Good.
Let me quote you again for clarity:Darkopus wrote:so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships So yes, what does that have to do with internet spaceships? It doesn't have anything at all to do with internet spaceships, so CCP has absolutely no reason to step into it, since it has nothing to do with them. In the exact same way that personal attacks on twitter have nothing to do with them. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
166
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:16:00 -
[1555] - Quote
Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Surtr Svartalfsen wrote:As a female Eve player and a gamer of over 30 years, I expect and tolerate a large amount of what might normally be considered harassment. If you ever want to get into W space then put in an application with Probe Patrol. Flying with female pilots is no big deal for us (we have one in the corp currently, and we've been in alliances with several). They are every bit as good in PVP as their male counterparts. Probe Patrol rocks. I was renting one of your C2 WH and really liked the pilots. My old corp is still there. I gave away my toons sine I wasnt getting any satisfaction from CCP about my issue. I even had letters from other pilots supporting my cause and saying that the dude was over the top. I'm still waiting for some sort of response from CCP, but am feeling a bit bent out of shape since I can't use my old toons that I'd trained for over a year a each. I think my request for toon renaming was very reasonable.
If this incident hasn't soured you on the game then you're always welcome in Probe Patrol. I'd hate to see someone drummed out of Eve. Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2520
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:17:00 -
[1556] - Quote
Quote: In the exact same way that personal attacks on twitter have nothing to do with them.
Seems you have discounted one of your own points by agreeing with me. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:17:00 -
[1557] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Darkopus wrote:Ah now the tears have a somewhat bitterness to them..........................
you are comparing apples with oranges.
This whole bonus room farce was done and touted as being part of EVE. Thats what you were all screaming in threadnaught version 1. Its game related so its not harrasment because eve is a dark place.
OK so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships............
You see this is where it crosses the lines of the game. The E1 camp was al loud and vocal about how this was Eve and Eve is dark and dangerous, yet those actions described above have nothing to do with the game at all. All you are trying to do now is wash that part out as if its not relevant to the topic in hand when it is the key issue that differentiates what is game and what is just someone getting perverse kicks out of mentally distressing another "real person". Not a character a person.
So yeah carry on trying to justify it with your non related case studies all you like, but no one with a shred of human decency will fall for your level of bullshit Oh OK, so you agree with me? Good. Let me quote you again for clarity: Darkopus wrote:so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships So yes, what does that have to do with internet spaceships? It doesn't have anything at all to do with internet spaceships, so CCP has absolutely no reason to step into it, since it has nothing to do with them. In the exact same way that personal attacks on twitter have nothing to do with them.
CCP has every right because what was done was in the name of EVE, the EVE IP was used to instigate the entire affair, CCP have a right to protect their IP and their reputation. It was posted on EVE-O forums and was inextricably linked to the game. Again your apologist tears will fuel my jump drive for the next 3 months at this rate
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2935
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:17:00 -
[1558] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:No its not alright . It still being a punch of Narcissistic prick. However without evidence provided by the perpetrator it will be a hell of a lot harder for them to intervene So then their rules should state that. They shouldn't pretend nothing has changed, then ban someone for doing something that was fine last month. They also shouldn't ignore the other highly rule breaking behaviour on that very same recording, and they shouldn't be stating that they do not deal with third party communications, then base a ban off of them.
As Remiel has stated, it's not about the decision they have taken, nobody blames them for thinking Erotica 1 has broken some rules, but they need to consistently enforce them. All they;ve done here is shown that a CSM with a vendetta and a screaming public gets them to take action, while the act of actually harassing someone does not.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1767
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:18:00 -
[1559] - Quote
So all the underlying problems still exist and a large part of the player base is completely confused. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
166
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:18:00 -
[1560] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.
I just can't "like" your post enough, and could not have said that better myself!
Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
|
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
774
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:18:00 -
[1561] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Let me quote you again for clarity: Darkopus wrote:so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships So yes, what does that have to do with internet spaceships? It doesn't have anything at all to do with internet spaceships, so CCP has absolutely no reason to step into it, since it has nothing to do with them. In the exact same way that personal attacks on twitter have nothing to do with them. Except you omit that the person behind Erotica 1's avatar is using the game as a tool to reel his victims out of game. And that makes it CCP's business, whether you like it or not. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1538
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:19:00 -
[1562] - Quote
Just because CCP banned someone doesnt mean CCP failed the community. The fact that CCP had to ban someone in this manner means we as a community failed ourselves. BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
854
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:20:00 -
[1563] - Quote
Some language may be offensive view at own* risk.
*disclaimer. And by own I mean you. I am not being responsible for your actions should you click on this link. I am not making you click it, you are clicking it. If you click that link you consent to the fact it was your own choice to do so and I in no way made you click on it, thus absolving me of any responsibility of your actions. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2520
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:20:00 -
[1564] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:No its not alright . It still being a punch of Narcissistic prick. However without evidence provided by the perpetrator it will be a hell of a lot harder for them to intervene So then their rules should state that. They shouldn't pretend nothing has changed, then ban someone for doing something that was fine last month. They also shouldn't ignore the other highly rule breaking behaviour on that very same recording, and they shouldn't be stating that they do not deal with third party communications, then base a ban off of them. As Remiel has stated, it's not about the decision they have taken, nobody blames them for thinking Erotica 1 has broken some rules, but they need to consistently enforce them. All they;ve done here is shown that a CSM with a vendetta and a screaming public gets them to take action, while the act of actually harassing someone does not.
You still conveniently ignore the fact that the player using those out of game comms, was using CCP's game in order to find, scam and victimise their target.
In that case CCP have every right to remove the protagonist.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
127
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:21:00 -
[1565] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Drone 16 wrote:Oh it's the "what if" guy that pestered Malcanis out of the thread last night. What if you take your myriad of questions to a GM or start a bonus room and see how far you can push it until you reach THE LINE. Why pester innocent Eve folk with you incessant neediness?
Take some responsibility for yourself and go find THE LINE. Why are you such a follower that you need your betters to explain it all to you? What if I continue to express myself however and wherever I like? I happen to believe it's not a responsible decision to state that nothing changed, yet clearly ban someone for something that was not an issue last month, then state absolutely no idea of where the new line stands. Some people seem to think it covers all situations where anything out of game is requested, some seem to think it only covers teamspeak, some think it covers only extreme situations. It's in the players best interests to get a straight answer from CCP, and if it wasn't for the fact that you guys have such a hate on for Erotica 1, you'd be bitching at CCP for exactly the same reasons. I know this, because this is always the response. If CCP even release a tiny patch to change the spelling of a tutorial mission half the community flies of the handle about how CCP aren't being specific enough. If you don't like it, that's your problem. Deal with it, and the "report post button is up there /\ if you feel I should be made to shut up.
Hey Bro, you can cry me a river all day if you like. I enjoy watching snivelers snivel.
Point is, you are not accomplishing anything with you juvenile neediness. No one here can tell you where you can find a rule to hide behind. We are not GM's.
As far as reporting you,not my style. I can handle anything people say to me on the forums and I don't need a rule to keep me safe.
Don't get me wrong I support your right to embarrass yourself.
Just don't get mad if I call you out from time to time for it.
So do continue. Here, in an effort to bring peace between the two of us let me start your next post.
What if... It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2935
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:22:00 -
[1566] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:CCP has every right because what was done was in the name of EVE, the EVE IP was used to instigate the entire affair, CCP have a right to protect their IP and their reputation. It was posted on EVE-O forums and was inextricably linked to the game. Again your apologist tears will fuel my jump drive for the next 3 months at this rate So why is it OK to attack people related to EVE on twitter and blogs and the like, but not on TS3?
And mate, you can keep calling every single post "tears" but it doesn't make it the case. You're just starting to look like one of those "Look at me ma! I'm doing a meme!" guys. I mean you're welcome to and if it makes you feel better to think you are somehow getting one over on people by doing it you can continue to do so, freedom of speech and all that, but it doesn't exactly reflect well upon you. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2935
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:23:00 -
[1567] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Hey Bro, you can cry me a river all day if you like. I enjoy watching snivelers snivel.
Point is, you are not accomplishing anything with you juvenile neediness. No one here can tell you where you can find a rule to hide behind. We are not GM's.
As far as reporting you,not my style. I can handle anything people say to me on the forums and I don't need a rule to keep me safe.
Don't get me wrong I support your right to embarrass yourself.
Just don't get mad if I call you out from time to time for it.
So do continue. Here, in an effort to bring peace between the two of us let me start your next post.
What if... Incorrect. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
67
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:23:00 -
[1568] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:No its not alright . It still being a punch of Narcissistic prick. However without evidence provided by the perpetrator it will be a hell of a lot harder for them to intervene So then their rules should state that. They shouldn't pretend nothing has changed, then ban someone for doing something that was fine last month. They also shouldn't ignore the other highly rule breaking behaviour on that very same recording, and they shouldn't be stating that they do not deal with third party communications, then base a ban off of them. As Remiel has stated, it's not about the decision they have taken, nobody blames them for thinking Erotica 1 has broken some rules, but they need to consistently enforce them. All they;ve done here is shown that a CSM with a vendetta and a screaming public gets them to take action, while the act of actually harassing someone does not.
They cant as that would be a public statement condoning harassment of a player as long is it does not cause a headache.
To use the appropriate analogy, If a criminal incriminates himself, on say Facebook gets caught and goes to prison for a crime. The prosecutor and police have every right to use that evidence.
lets say criminal B breaks the law gets away with it by not spreading it over facebook. His actions are still morally reprehensible , and illegal, but hes got away with it , and the police and prosecutor office may not have enough evidence to convict. Lack of evidence does not make somthing ok. It just makes it harder to prosecute |
Tweek Etimua
The Paragons
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:26:00 -
[1569] - Quote
To start I do believe the harassment is important to stop. And there are people who just can't handle it and do drastic things to them selves or others. This is a reality, right, wrong, good or bad, it happens.
Now not knowing what the facts are the community seems to believe that Ripard Teg's comments is at the core. Im going to use his Post at EN24 as an example.
Regarding how CCP should handle harassment. There are two Worlds here. The real world and Eve. However these lines are so blurred when talking about harassment. When you create a game that, from what I've been told, allows you to take advantage of people in order to get what you want, well that's what their going to do. How did you expect people to behave? To cut a long rant short on human nature and greed, If you thought the only means people where going to use to scam people was text messaging for them to hand over their loot or die. Than CCP made a terrible mistake.
Harassment: to trouble, torment, or confuse by continual persistent attacks, questions, etc
By that definition there is no grey area. Scamming at it's very core contains harassment. And realistically how do you intend on handling this and be fair at the same time.
Now. I my self think this is ludicrous. The community created this monster. Like in economics, we should let the market fix it self. Ripard Teg Is allowed to speak his opinion. However In my opinion he was doing it wrongly. But If he thought some one in eve was going to far well I think he was doing the responsible thing by making it known to the public, the best way to stop someone from making Isk is to take their market away. CCP is in over their heads to make us, the community assume they're "going to handle it". Well they can't. You cant say that an individual like E1 went to far when people have the ability to choose....Don't any one dare make the comparison of what happens in eve is the equivalent to torture, ****, slavery or any other evil crime. You not only show your ignorance but offend REAL victims of such acts. People in eve CHOOSE to join a TS Chanel and sing for an hour. People in eve CHOOSE to give their in game assets to a person in hopes of getting it back and being doubled. They even CHOOSE to let some one in to their corp, then promote them to a position of power, And they choose to trust them not to take their corps stuff.
The one resounding them in eve is, "sorry you were dumb. Better luck next time." let's keep it that way.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2941
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:26:00 -
[1570] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:No its not alright . It still being a punch of Narcissistic prick. However without evidence provided by the perpetrator it will be a hell of a lot harder for them to intervene So then their rules should state that. They shouldn't pretend nothing has changed, then ban someone for doing something that was fine last month. They also shouldn't ignore the other highly rule breaking behaviour on that very same recording, and they shouldn't be stating that they do not deal with third party communications, then base a ban off of them. As Remiel has stated, it's not about the decision they have taken, nobody blames them for thinking Erotica 1 has broken some rules, but they need to consistently enforce them. All they;ve done here is shown that a CSM with a vendetta and a screaming public gets them to take action, while the act of actually harassing someone does not. You still conveniently ignore the fact that the player using those out of game comms, was using CCP's game in order to find, scam and victimise their target. In that case CCP have every right to remove the protagonist. So why then do players who have in game actions then take them out of game to forum or a blog or twitter to attack and harass those same players not get a ban hammer? Why is there clearly stated responses from GM stating that "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE"? Source The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1768
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:27:00 -
[1571] - Quote
Darkopus wrote: CCP has every right because what was done was in the name of EVE, the EVE IP was used to instigate the entire affair, CCP have a right to protect their IP and their reputation. It was posted on EVE-O forums and was inextricably linked to the game. Again your apologist tears will fuel my jump drive for the next 3 months at this rate
Fair enough, and what exactly is that affair? Asking someone to volunteer to sing and read in teamspeak for 1-2 hours?
I happen to live next to a pretty nasty neighborhood in a major USA city and where some real crime, intolerance, and harassment happens all the time and honestly it's pretty hard to wrap my head around the bonus room being anything but some immature fun between online gamers, notably in a game that encourages us to be asshats. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Good Posting
Posting with my Mind
137
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:27:00 -
[1572] - Quote
In these hard times we are living, we all should remain calm and pray to our Saviour and Protector. Father James! Illumine the path and guide our hand through this impure valley of lost souls!
Ok, now seriously. I though that code were a bunch of high sec roleplayer kunts but i confirmed it by writing that crap. Holy shite that was disgusting.
|
Drone 16
Law Dogz
129
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:27:00 -
[1573] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Drone 16 wrote:Hey Bro, you can cry me a river all day if you like. I enjoy watching snivelers snivel.
Point is, you are not accomplishing anything with you juvenile neediness. No one here can tell you where you can find a rule to hide behind. We are not GM's.
As far as reporting you,not my style. I can handle anything people say to me on the forums and I don't need a rule to keep me safe.
Don't get me wrong I support your right to embarrass yourself.
Just don't get mad if I call you out from time to time for it.
So do continue. Here, in an effort to bring peace between the two of us let me start your next post.
What if... Incorrect.
Witty It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2141
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:30:00 -
[1574] - Quote
Vara Vampira wrote:So what I am getting from this...If i know an EVE Player outside of game. And we meet somewhere and I start making fun of him and "harassing" him for being a carebear and horrible at something, this would provoke CCP to ban me?
It is unlikely, try it and see This is not a signature. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2941
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:30:00 -
[1575] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:They cant as that would be a public statement condoning harassment of a player as long is it does not cause a headache.
To use the appropriate analogy, If a criminal incriminates himself, on say Facebook gets caught and goes to prison for a crime. The prosecutor and police have every right to use that evidence.
lets say criminal B breaks the law gets away with it by not spreading it over facebook. His actions are still morally reprehensible , and illegal, but hes got away with it , and the police and prosecutor office may not have enough evidence to convict. Lack of evidence does not make somthing ok. It just makes it harder to prosecute It wouldn't it would be a restatement of the exact same policy they've had for 10 years, which is that they only deal with situations that occur within EVE, and not on third party websites or comms tools.
CCP are not a court of law, their responsibility ends when EVE does, the same as Facebook's responsibility ends with Facebook. Facebook wouldn't ban a user for a statement they made on twitter, even if it was against a Facebook user. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
898
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:30:00 -
[1576] - Quote
Here. Have a nice, hot cup of HTFU. ------------ |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2522
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:32:00 -
[1577] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:No its not alright . It still being a punch of Narcissistic prick. However without evidence provided by the perpetrator it will be a hell of a lot harder for them to intervene So then their rules should state that. They shouldn't pretend nothing has changed, then ban someone for doing something that was fine last month. They also shouldn't ignore the other highly rule breaking behaviour on that very same recording, and they shouldn't be stating that they do not deal with third party communications, then base a ban off of them. As Remiel has stated, it's not about the decision they have taken, nobody blames them for thinking Erotica 1 has broken some rules, but they need to consistently enforce them. All they;ve done here is shown that a CSM with a vendetta and a screaming public gets them to take action, while the act of actually harassing someone does not. You still conveniently ignore the fact that the player using those out of game comms, was using CCP's game in order to find, scam and victimise their target. In that case CCP have every right to remove the protagonist. So why then do players who have in game actions then take them out of game to forum or a blog or twitter to attack and harass those same players not get a ban hammer? Why is there clearly stated responses from GM stating that "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE"? Source
They can't enforce out of game activities. The problem, and I put it to you yet again, is that Ero1's activities clearly relate to the game.
He stated that he couldn't stop the bonus room or his reputation (within Eve) would be destroyed. That said, his actions clearly fall within the remit of CCP. You can keep throwing what ifs around as much as you like. It changes nothing.
Ero1 was acting in a way that afforded him reputation within Eve. Therefor it is within CCP's scope to take action. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
126
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:34:00 -
[1578] - Quote
Hot topic of this week seems to be Erotica 1 ban and I decided to listen this audio file through about it. It seems that victim could have dyslexia and it was abused alot. Dyslexia means difficulty to read. I found relevant internet links for reading about this incident. This audio file was kind of sad to listen through.
People tried to scam me few times when I was rookie and I found it to be part of game experience. When I was young I sometimes lost my nerves playing games too much in a row. Nowadays I keep coffee break every few hours just like I keep coffee breaks at work.
Erotica 1 has extremely calm hypnotic tone of voice in this audio file.
Here's link to forum thread that made this issue public and behind it can be found audio file about this incident. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=332182
It seems that victim was book example of confidence trick. I didn't know about this issue before today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick
Dyslexia reading disorder in wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia
Words glory hole are used in this video several times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_hole_%28sexual_slang%29
Words bonus round are used in this video several times. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bonus+round
Victim has made two forum posts and here is link to his profile containing links to these posts. https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/sohkar Mikhem
Game improvement ideas. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2941
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:35:00 -
[1579] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Let me quote you again for clarity: Darkopus wrote:so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships So yes, what does that have to do with internet spaceships? It doesn't have anything at all to do with internet spaceships, so CCP has absolutely no reason to step into it, since it has nothing to do with them. In the exact same way that personal attacks on twitter have nothing to do with them. Except you omit that the person behind Erotica 1's avatar is using the game as a tool to reel his victims out of game. And that makes it CCP's business, whether you like it or not. OK, so why are people who take an in game disagreement to an out of game forums and harass the other player not banned? I'm really not omitting anything here mate, the point is it's inconsistent. They can't claim to not deal with third party comms, telling some victims to effectively go **** themselves, then stand by others saying "yeah, that guys was mean". Either third party comms are covered by the EULA or they aren't. Which is it? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2941
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:35:00 -
[1580] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Drone 16 wrote:Hey Bro, you can cry me a river all day if you like. I enjoy watching snivelers snivel.
Point is, you are not accomplishing anything with you juvenile neediness. No one here can tell you where you can find a rule to hide behind. We are not GM's.
As far as reporting you,not my style. I can handle anything people say to me on the forums and I don't need a rule to keep me safe.
Don't get me wrong I support your right to embarrass yourself.
Just don't get mad if I call you out from time to time for it.
So do continue. Here, in an effort to bring peace between the two of us let me start your next post.
What if... Incorrect. Witty I thought so too. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3144
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:37:00 -
[1581] - Quote
For what it's worth (probably not much) I think CCP made the best call they could here. Initially I was worried about arbitrary bannings; being a ganker... I don't make a lot of friends. I think the policy they've laid out is actually really reasonable, and is good for the game overall. It seems like they've really thought about it, and have things well in hand for the community and the overall health of the game. It wasn't as clear to me in the dev statements in this thread, imho... What really convinced me was this.
...just my 2 isk.
Mikhem wrote:*snip* It seems that victim could have dyslexia and it was abused alot. Dyslexia means difficulty to read. I found relevant internet links for reading about this incident. This audio file was kind of sad to listen through.*snip* He doesn't have dyslexia. He just hasn't read anything aloud in a long time and probably doesn't read much anyway.
|
Salvos Rhoska
899
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:37:00 -
[1582] - Quote
This guy thinks if he can get some random posters tongue-tied with circular logic, that wins him the entire issue and CCP was automatically therefore wrong.
Nope.jpg. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2944
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:41:00 -
[1583] - Quote
Mikhem wrote:Hot topic of this week seems to be Erotica 1 ban and I decided to listen this audio file through about it. It seems that victim could have dyslexia and it was abused alot. Dyslexia means difficulty to read. I found relevant internet links for reading about this incident. This audio file was kind of sad to listen through. ...truncated...Victim has made two forum posts and here is link to his profile containing links to these posts. https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/sohkar And to quote the "victim" in this case:Sohkar wrote:I dont think erotica 1 should be banned but just because of that i dont think what he did was 100% right but i choose to do what i did and i said what i said he didnt tell me to say it. So if even the "victim" has stated Erotica 1 should not be banned, how can people still not see that this is CCP responding to a CSM members personal vendetta and the outcry of the public, not the needs of the "victim"?
Let's drop the act. We all know why I keep pushing for answers and why we will never get any. This has got nothing to do with rules against harassment, it's PR, plain and simple. A CSM member started a witch hunt, the community got stirred up into a rage shitstorm and CCP buckled to public pressure to save face. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
899
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:42:00 -
[1584] - Quote
A-bluuu bluu bluuuu?
:,,,,,,,( ------------ |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:43:00 -
[1585] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:No its not alright . It still being a punch of Narcissistic prick. However without evidence provided by the perpetrator it will be a hell of a lot harder for them to intervene So then their rules should state that. They shouldn't pretend nothing has changed, then ban someone for doing something that was fine last month. They also shouldn't ignore the other highly rule breaking behaviour on that very same recording, and they shouldn't be stating that they do not deal with third party communications, then base a ban off of them. As Remiel has stated, it's not about the decision they have taken, nobody blames them for thinking Erotica 1 has broken some rules, but they need to consistently enforce them. All they;ve done here is shown that a CSM with a vendetta and a screaming public gets them to take action, while the act of actually harassing someone does not. You still conveniently ignore the fact that the player using those out of game comms, was using CCP's game in order to find, scam and victimise their target. In that case CCP have every right to remove the protagonist. So why then do players who have in game actions then take them out of game to forum or a blog or twitter to attack and harass those same players not get a ban hammer? Why is there clearly stated responses from GM stating that "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE"? Source
so why then do players who have in game actions feel the need to take it to coms and ask for mayo smeared victory pictures. We can go round in a massive circle all day on this and I guess the only people that know are CCP. We can ask them for details and clarifications in fact we did and the response was the post by Falcon with a few follow ups from Guard. CCP are not at liberty nor do they have to give us any more information than they want to. They clearly identified that they examine these things on a case by case basis and also clearly sated that for any situation where you feel threatened IRL to report it to your local law enforcement agency.
The bonus round stuff was an extraordinary case which I agree would be helpfull if we got more details on their lines of thinking, but we know we won't get that. The bottom line here is that this is not a democracy, we play and access this game at CCP's pleasure and when we reach a stage where we don't like what they are peddling there is always the biomass option. However to think that we are in some kind of democracy where we can demand answers from CCP is delusional. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
806
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:46:00 -
[1586] - Quote
Look, Lucas, you know my character hates your character with a passion, ingame but what you are doing here on the forums deserves not only mad props but also very much respect.
Lucas Kell wrote: Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.
TheGunslinger42 wrote: Also the magnitude of this turn of events has just become shockingly clear as Lucas and I are in agreement --- Ripard Teg did not merely "expose" a wrong. If he had responsibly reported the issue, and wanted to open a discussion, that would be great. But he opened his piece with literally stating that another player was pure evil, and followed up with literally calling him a torturer, and ended by pleading for the immediate removal of the individual.
That is not responsible journalism, that is not exposing a wrong, that is highly biased, sensationalist dreck. It's clear from the get go that his agenda is to get Erotica1 banned, and that he is willing to use any tactics possible - even horrific ones such as trivialising torture - to accompish it.
This one was nice too;
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban? Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys.
To the ripard's posse: keep saying we are the psychopats, it's very good for the case you are making.
D.
INB4 OMG TEARS! |
Cordelia Mulholland IV
Posh Space Tarts
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:47:00 -
[1587] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:,,, the point is it's inconsistent.
Tell me about it! Erotica 1 had white hair and was banned. Yet I see hundreds of other white haired avatars still playing EvE without a care in the World.
CCP need to standardize their 'king rulez man. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
130
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:48:00 -
[1588] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Let me quote you again for clarity: Darkopus wrote:so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships So yes, what does that have to do with internet spaceships? It doesn't have anything at all to do with internet spaceships, so CCP has absolutely no reason to step into it, since it has nothing to do with them. In the exact same way that personal attacks on twitter have nothing to do with them. Except you omit that the person behind Erotica 1's avatar is using the game as a tool to reel his victims out of game. And that makes it CCP's business, whether you like it or not. OK, so why are people who take an in game disagreement to an out of game forums and harass the other player not banned? I'm really not omitting anything here mate, the point is it's inconsistent. They can't claim to not deal with third party comms, telling some victims to effectively go **** themselves, then stand by others saying "yeah, that guys was mean". Either third party comms are covered by the EULA or they aren't. Which is it?
Try this on for size Mr. Literal.
Al Capone a lying, murderering piece of human scum was put away for the rest of is life for....income tax evasion.
Maybe CCP looked at ALL of the facts and information they were given officially and unofficially. Maybe they determined that this individual was no longer welcome in their game because of what they then knew. Maybe based on the totality of the information they decided to ban him on rules violation to make it official.
A lot of "maybe" in there I know.
I will give some definitely. We will definitely never know all of the particulars of what went into their decision because people like you would definitely try to pick their decision apart. There will definitely never be a clearly defined boundary because they definitely can't predict what each and every gamer will do in the future. They definitely don't owe any of us an explanation for the "whats" and "whys" of what they do to keep their business in good shape.
It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
775
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:48:00 -
[1589] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Let me quote you again for clarity: Darkopus wrote:so please explain to me what asking someone to smear mayon on their body has to do with internet spaceships, also what has telling your victim to give his wife a paperbag to breathe into to calm her down got to do with internet spaceships So yes, what does that have to do with internet spaceships? It doesn't have anything at all to do with internet spaceships, so CCP has absolutely no reason to step into it, since it has nothing to do with them. In the exact same way that personal attacks on twitter have nothing to do with them. Except you omit that the person behind Erotica 1's avatar is using the game as a tool to reel his victims out of game. And that makes it CCP's business, whether you like it or not. OK, so why are people who take an in game disagreement to an out of game forums and harass the other player not banned? I'm really not omitting anything here mate, the point is it's inconsistent. They can't claim to not deal with third party comms, telling some victims to effectively go **** themselves, then stand by others saying "yeah, that guys was mean". Either third party comms are covered by the EULA or they aren't. Which is it?
There is a difference between using the game as a tool to inflict real life malice, grief and humiliation versus someone ranting on twitter or quibbling with another player. And most people can differentiate between these. Most of it falls within common sense. In this case, malice is clear. These individuals went as far as to ridicule the victim's wife. They stepped well beyond the line between in-game and real life.
This is why there aren't "clear" rules to sort these issues out. They need to be reviewed on a case by case basis by CCP. So where do you draw the line? Use common sense and you'll steer clear from situations like this. But I realize there are those that, not only lack common sense, but have a need to push the lever as far as they can. In that case you can't get mad when CCP has to step in and bring you back across the line again. In other words, don't get mad because you can't see where you're well past the line. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
130
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:50:00 -
[1590] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Look, Lucas, you know my character hates your character with a passion, ingame but what you are doing here on the forums deserves not only mad props but also very much respect. Lucas Kell wrote: Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.
TheGunslinger42 wrote: Also the magnitude of this turn of events has just become shockingly clear as Lucas and I are in agreement --- Ripard Teg did not merely "expose" a wrong. If he had responsibly reported the issue, and wanted to open a discussion, that would be great. But he opened his piece with literally stating that another player was pure evil, and followed up with literally calling him a torturer, and ended by pleading for the immediate removal of the individual.
That is not responsible journalism, that is not exposing a wrong, that is highly biased, sensationalist dreck. It's clear from the get go that his agenda is to get Erotica1 banned, and that he is willing to use any tactics possible - even horrific ones such as trivialising torture - to accompish it.
This one was nice too; Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban? Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys. To the ripard's posse: whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. D. INB4 OMG TEARS!
Too late It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
|
Vara Vampira
STEEL CITY. DARKNESS.
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:54:00 -
[1591] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mikhem wrote:Hot topic of this week seems to be Erotica 1 ban and I decided to listen this audio file through about it. It seems that victim could have dyslexia and it was abused alot. Dyslexia means difficulty to read. I found relevant internet links for reading about this incident. This audio file was kind of sad to listen through. ...truncated...Victim has made two forum posts and here is link to his profile containing links to these posts. https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/sohkar And to quote the "victim" in this case: Sohkar wrote:I dont think erotica 1 should be banned but just because of that i dont think what he did was 100% right but i choose to do what i did and i said what i said he didnt tell me to say it. So if even the "victim" has stated Erotica 1 should not be banned, how can people still not see that this is CCP responding to a CSM members personal vendetta and the outcry of the public, not the needs of the "victim"? Let's drop the act. We all know why I keep pushing for answers and why we will never get any. This has got nothing to do with rules against harassment, it's PR, plain and simple. A CSM member started a witch hunt, the community got stirred up into a rage shitstorm and CCP buckled to public pressure to save face.
It just shows CCP will cave to the masses despite whats right or wrong. Support Erotica 1, remove Ripard Teg from CSM. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4701
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:55:00 -
[1592] - Quote
The rule is the same as it's always been.
You push CCP's buttons and you get stomped. Happens all the time. From locked posts to perma-bans.
There's no ambiguity here. Just butt hurt on a massive scale by whiners that like to play 'what if' games. Outliers are not the norm in this game. And neither is common sense, apparently.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1772
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:57:00 -
[1593] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: There is a difference between using the game as a tool to inflict real life malice, grief and humiliation versus someone ranting on twitter or quibbling with another player.
You'll have a hard time making your case for "malice, grief, and humiliation" when not even the "victim" involved feels this way.
You could make a case that CCP no longer wants bonus rooms and people being mean toward each other ... well, "just because" CCP wants it that way ... but it seems the opposite is true. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
299
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:59:00 -
[1594] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Helena Russell Makanen wrote:Dorn Val wrote:
Actually I have done that and I reached the conclusions that have driven my posts. I still do not agree with how this situation was handled.
Dorn I think everyone realizes you do not agree with how this situation was handled by now. But if you prefer post it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I am sure it will change everything. Dorn Val looks at your corporation and wants you to point to the doll and show everyone where the miner bumpers touched you :)
IIRC I have only ever seen a miner bumper once across several Eve accounts. He was having a hissy fit in local because he got concorded after bravely firing on an un-armed mining ship. Was kinda cute.
"If a miner needs to go to the bathroom, for instance, I ask that they dock up first, or at the very least ask the Supreme Protector for permission to go."-á --á James 315 - aka - the miner bumper |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2949
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:59:00 -
[1595] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:so why then do players who have in game actions feel the need to take it to coms and ask for mayo smeared victory pictures. We can go round in a massive circle all day on this and I guess the only people that know are CCP. We can ask them for details and clarifications in fact we did and the response was the post by Falcon with a few follow ups from Guard. CCP are not at liberty nor do they have to give us any more information than they want to. They clearly identified that they examine these things on a case by case basis and also clearly sated that for any situation where you feel threatened IRL to report it to your local law enforcement agency.
The bonus round stuff was an extraordinary case which I agree would be helpfull if we got more details on their lines of thinking, but we know we won't get that. The bottom line here is that this is not a democracy, we play and access this game at CCP's pleasure and when we reach a stage where we don't like what they are peddling there is always the biomass option. However to think that we are in some kind of democracy where we can demand answers from CCP is delusional. We clearly can demand answers form CCP. They didn't choose to respond to this when it happened, they did it when people protested against it and made a 400 page thread in a day.
I'm of the firm belief that CCPs responsibility should end with EVE, and third party tools, sites and communications services should not have the EULA/ToS covering them, which has been the case since EVE was born. If they want to extend it to cover third party services, then it should cover ALL of them, regardless of medium, so twitter, blogs, forums should ALL be covered by the same rules.
The harassment rules should continue to operate on a case by case basis, and that's fine, but if they are going to choose to extend the EULA/ToS to some third party services, it should be clear exactly which services they extend to and the extent to which they extend. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1772
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 18:59:00 -
[1596] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:The rule is the same as it's always been. You push CCP's buttons and you get stomped. Happens all the time. From locked posts to perma-bans. There's no ambiguity here. Just butt hurt on a massive scale by whiners that like to play 'what if' games. Outliers are not the norm in this game. And neither is common sense, apparently. Mr Epeen
Interesting statement from a man playing a game loaded with outliers, especially when compared to the rest of the mmo scene. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2949
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:01:00 -
[1597] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:The rule is the same as it's always been. You push CCP's buttons and you get stomped. Happens all the time. From locked posts to perma-bans. There's no ambiguity here. Just butt hurt on a massive scale by whiners that like to play 'what if' games. Outliers are not the norm in this game. And neither is common sense, apparently. Mr Epeen The ambiguity comes with how far into third party services the rules extend. Previously this was "not at all" as clearly stated by GMs. Now, it's clear that has changed. So what has it changed to? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
902
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:02:00 -
[1598] - Quote
Tell you what.
Write up your questions, and address them to CCP directly.
You are asking people who try to answer them, but are not actually in any position to do so. Hence, everything they answer, is just their opinion.
Write em up and address them to CCP. ------------ |
Vara Vampira
STEEL CITY. DARKNESS.
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:03:00 -
[1599] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tell you what. Right up your questions, and address them to CCP directly.
they tend to say " nope" and lock them because they know they were in the wrong. doing so is futile
Support Erotica 1, remove Ripard Teg from CSM. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
131
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:05:00 -
[1600] - Quote
Vara Vampira wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Mikhem wrote:Hot topic of this week seems to be Erotica 1 ban and I decided to listen this audio file through about it. It seems that victim could have dyslexia and it was abused alot. Dyslexia means difficulty to read. I found relevant internet links for reading about this incident. This audio file was kind of sad to listen through. ...truncated...Victim has made two forum posts and here is link to his profile containing links to these posts. https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/sohkar And to quote the "victim" in this case: Sohkar wrote:I dont think erotica 1 should be banned but just because of that i dont think what he did was 100% right but i choose to do what i did and i said what i said he didnt tell me to say it. So if even the "victim" has stated Erotica 1 should not be banned, how can people still not see that this is CCP responding to a CSM members personal vendetta and the outcry of the public, not the needs of the "victim"? Let's drop the act. We all know why I keep pushing for answers and why we will never get any. This has got nothing to do with rules against harassment, it's PR, plain and simple. A CSM member started a witch hunt, the community got stirred up into a rage shitstorm and CCP buckled to public pressure to save face. It just shows CCP will cave to the masses despite whats right or wrong.
Bro, have you heard of this thing called "ganking" it is a rage inducing, tear duct stimulating practice conducted by a group of players for the purpose of fun and/or profit. It is non-consensual pvp, that is what Eve is about. Pvp is everywhere even the forums.
You just got forum ganked.
I was not in the "ban E1 crowd" I thought he could be given a warning. Now, I'm not so sure, there are a lot of deviant minds on this forum, some of you need a wake up call. This game isn't the place for you to get off on humiliation and degradation if you want that get married. Blow up ships, scam, collect tears, laugh at your victims just keep it classy.
While I was not for E1 getting banned, watching you internet tough guys whine and cry is providing me with a guilty pleasure.
It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2949
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:05:00 -
[1601] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Look, Lucas, you know my character hates your character with a passion, ingame but what you are doing here on the forums deserves not only mad props but also very much respect. I did get that impression, and thanks :D The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2522
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:05:00 -
[1602] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:The rule is the same as it's always been. You push CCP's buttons and you get stomped. Happens all the time. From locked posts to perma-bans. There's no ambiguity here. Just butt hurt on a massive scale by whiners that like to play 'what if' games. Outliers are not the norm in this game. And neither is common sense, apparently. Mr Epeen The ambiguity comes with how far into third party services the rules extend. Previously this was "not at all" as clearly stated by GMs. Now, it's clear that has changed. So what has it changed to?
I've already answered this for you several times. You don't like my answers so you keep asking the same thing. Ask CCP via a petition / ticket and see how it comes back. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Salvos Rhoska
902
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:06:00 -
[1603] - Quote
Vara Vampira wrote:they tend to say " nope" and lock them because they know they were in the wrong. doing so is futile
CCP Falcon said:
CCP Falcon wrote:As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
So just write up your questions in a clear and concise manner. I would recommend a numbered format. The more intelligible and well-considered your list of questions is, the more likely they are to answer it. Put some time into it, and make it "easy" for them to read through it and answer.
And then address them to CCP directly here in this thread. ------------ |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
807
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:06:00 -
[1604] - Quote
Vara Vampira wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tell you what. Right up your questions, and address them to CCP directly. they tend to say " nope" and lock them because they know they were in the wrong. doing so is futile
Don't feed that little troll, especially not with posts that make sense... It's like throwing water on a gremlin while feeding him after 10PM.
D.
|
Drone 16
Law Dogz
131
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:06:00 -
[1605] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tell you what. Write up your questions, and address them to CCP directly. You are asking people who try to answer them, but are not actually in any position to do so. Hence, everything they answer, is just their opinion. Write em up and address them to CCP.
Tried to tell him that already he is just dense It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2952
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:07:00 -
[1606] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tell you what. Write up your questions, and address them to CCP directly. You are asking people who try to answer them, but are not actually in any position to do so. Hence, everything they answer, is just their opinion. Write em up and address them to CCP. Or... I can continue to post them here. That way, CCP gets to read them, other players get to read them, you get to read them and I get to continue my right to freedom of speech. I think I'll go with my option, but honestly, thanks very much for the kind suggestion. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
902
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:09:00 -
[1607] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Don't feed that little troll, especially not with posts that make sense... It's like throwing water on a gremlin while feeding him after 10PM.]
NO U ------------ |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
131
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:09:00 -
[1608] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:The rule is the same as it's always been. You push CCP's buttons and you get stomped. Happens all the time. From locked posts to perma-bans. There's no ambiguity here. Just butt hurt on a massive scale by whiners that like to play 'what if' games. Outliers are not the norm in this game. And neither is common sense, apparently. Mr Epeen
Epeen, can I call you that?
I just want to say that I wish I had your ability to push it in so far and do it in so few words. You have a gift my friend. A gift! It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2952
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:10:00 -
[1609] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:The rule is the same as it's always been. You push CCP's buttons and you get stomped. Happens all the time. From locked posts to perma-bans. There's no ambiguity here. Just butt hurt on a massive scale by whiners that like to play 'what if' games. Outliers are not the norm in this game. And neither is common sense, apparently. Mr Epeen The ambiguity comes with how far into third party services the rules extend. Previously this was "not at all" as clearly stated by GMs. Now, it's clear that has changed. So what has it changed to? I've already answered this for you several times. You don't like my answers so you keep asking the same thing. Ask CCP via a petition / ticket and see how it comes back. No thanks, I'll continue to ask here. I'm not sure which of your answers you think was *the answer*, so if you could drop a link, that would be awesome. In addition to that I'll continue to ask others and debate this as I am fully within my rights to do so. But to you as well, thanks for the suggestion, I do appreciate you looking out for me and ensuring I have a clear idea of my options. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
902
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:11:00 -
[1610] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tell you what. Write up your questions, and address them to CCP directly. You are asking people who try to answer them, but are not actually in any position to do so. Hence, everything they answer, is just their opinion. Write em up and address them to CCP. Or... I can continue to post them here. That way, CCP gets to read them, other players get to read them, you get to read them and I get to continue my right to freedom of speech. I think I'll go with my option, but honestly, thanks very much for the kind suggestion.
Seriously.
My recommendation is that you formulate your questions into as clear, concise and intelligible a numbered list as possible, and then post it here in this thread with a clear header addressing it to CCP.
Nobody else here can answer the questions you are asking. Nobody else here is in any position to answer them. Everyone elses answer is just a matter of subjective opinion, to which they personally are entitled.
Arguing against US, does not change CCPs position on this issue.
Write up your stuff, and address it to CCP, here in this thread. ------------ |
|
Moja Hinken
State War Academy Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:13:00 -
[1611] - Quote
Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2522
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:13:00 -
[1612] - Quote
Quote: But to you as well, thanks for the suggestion, I do appreciate you looking out for me and ensuring I have a clear idea of my options.
I assure you I am not looking out for you. I disagree with you.
You are free to keep asking the questions. I did you the courtesy of answering your questions in a civil manner. Several times in fact.
You can do me the courtesy of not being lazy and reading them. I assure you I answered every question you asked of me when you quoted my posts. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
807
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:13:00 -
[1613] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Danalee wrote:Look, Lucas, you know my character hates your character with a passion, ingame but what you are doing here on the forums deserves not only mad props but also very much respect. Lucas Kell wrote: Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.
TheGunslinger42 wrote: Also the magnitude of this turn of events has just become shockingly clear as Lucas and I are in agreement --- Ripard Teg did not merely "expose" a wrong. If he had responsibly reported the issue, and wanted to open a discussion, that would be great. But he opened his piece with literally stating that another player was pure evil, and followed up with literally calling him a torturer, and ended by pleading for the immediate removal of the individual.
That is not responsible journalism, that is not exposing a wrong, that is highly biased, sensationalist dreck. It's clear from the get go that his agenda is to get Erotica1 banned, and that he is willing to use any tactics possible - even horrific ones such as trivialising torture - to accompish it.
This one was nice too; Jebediah Phoenix wrote:So we can get perma-banned now for asking people to do a little song and dance? When the "victim" wasn't punished for racism and death threats? When apparently encouraging someone to commit suicide is worth only a 3 month ban? Yeah, nice priorities CCP. Successful witch hunt guys. INB4 OMG TEARS! Too late
It's not too late to try and fix what's wrong, friend Drone. Don't be sad. Heck, your support throughout this thread and the previous is what keeps us sane/grownup people going.
D.
|
Vara Vampira
STEEL CITY. DARKNESS.
14
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:14:00 -
[1614] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met.
how CCP was forced to feel by the masses and corrupt CSM you mean? Support Erotica 1, remove Ripard Teg from CSM. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1210
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:14:00 -
[1615] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met.
One does not exclude the other I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
131
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:15:00 -
[1616] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:The rule is the same as it's always been. You push CCP's buttons and you get stomped. Happens all the time. From locked posts to perma-bans. There's no ambiguity here. Just butt hurt on a massive scale by whiners that like to play 'what if' games. Outliers are not the norm in this game. And neither is common sense, apparently. Mr Epeen Interesting statement from a man playing a game loaded with outliers, especially when compared to the rest of the mmo scene.
Apparently, whatever E1 did was far enough out of the norm that he got banned. It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2954
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:16:00 -
[1617] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Seriously.
My recommendation is that you formulate your questions into as clear, concise and intelligible a numbered list as possible, and then post it here in this thread with a clear header addressing it to CCP.
Nobody else here can answer the questions you are asking. Nobody else here is in any position to answer them. Everyone elses answer is just a matter of subjective opinion, to which they personally are entitled.
Arguing against US, does NOT change CCPs position on this issue.
Write up your stuff, and address it to CCP, here in this thread. I understand what you are saying, and I appreciate your suggestion, however in this instance I am choosing to go a different way with this and publicly discuss said questions instead. I understand that no player speaks on behalf of CCP. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
134
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:17:00 -
[1618] - Quote
Vara Vampira wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met. how CCP was forced to feel by the masses and corrupt CSM you mean?
I think the Palpatine might dissolve the Senate too if we are not careful. OMG the drama
It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2524
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:17:00 -
[1619] - Quote
Vara Vampira wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met. how CCP was forced to feel by the masses and corrupt CSM you mean?
How you seem to fail to realise that some things are more important than role-playing in a game you mean? Aaaaaaand relax. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
777
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:18:00 -
[1620] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: There is a difference between using the game as a tool to inflict real life malice, grief and humiliation versus someone ranting on twitter or quibbling with another player.
You'll have a hard time making your case for "malice, grief, and humiliation" when not even the "victim" involved feels this way. You could make a case that CCP no longer wants bonus rooms and people being mean toward each other ... well, "just because" CCP wants it that way ... but it seems the opposite is true. Intent does not depend on how the message or signal was received. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
902
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:19:00 -
[1621] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: I am choosing to go a different way with this and publicly discuss said questions instead. I understand that no player speaks on behalf of CCP.
Ok.
Where is your list of said questions?
You have clearly stated that you have no interest in an answer from CCP on your questions, and instead want to discuss YOUR questions with the rest of us.
It is beyond me why you think that any of us are in a position to answer your questions about CCPs OWN policies and OWN statements, but whatever floats your boat, dude.
So, lets do this.
Where are your questions? ------------ |
Vara Vampira
STEEL CITY. DARKNESS.
15
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:19:00 -
[1622] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Vara Vampira wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met. how CCP was forced to feel by the masses and corrupt CSM you mean? How you seem to fail to realise that some things are more important than role-playing in a game you mean?
who says anything about roleplaying? Support Erotica 1, remove Ripard Teg from CSM. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2954
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:20:00 -
[1623] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met. You've met me? When did that happen? I'm afraid it didn't make a lasting impression. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2524
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:21:00 -
[1624] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met. You've met me? When did that happen? I'm afraid it didn't make a lasting impression.
Ahhh - semantics - the last bastion of the desperate. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Salvos Rhoska
902
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:22:00 -
[1625] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You've met me?
meet 1 (m-ôt) v. met (m-òt), meet-+ing, meets v.tr. 1. To come upon by chance or arrangement. 2. To be present at the arrival of: met the train. 3. To be introduced to. 4. To come into conjunction with; join: where the sea meets the sky. 5. To come into the company or presence of, as for a conference. 6. To come to the notice of (the senses): There is more here than meets the eye. 7. To experience; undergo: met his fate with courage. 8. To deal with; oppose: "We have met the enemy and they are ours" (Oliver Hazard Perry). 9. To cope or contend effectively with: meet each problem as it arises. 10. To come into conformity with the views, wishes, or opinions of: The firm has done its best to meet us on that point. 11. To satisfy (a need, for example); fulfill: meet all the conditions in the contract. See Synonyms at satisfy. 12. To pay; settle: enough money to meet expenses.
Next question?
Keep em coming. ------------ |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
134
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:23:00 -
[1626] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met. You've met me? When did that happen? I'm afraid it didn't make a lasting impression.
Come on Lucas, you are running out of steam. Pick up the pace, I might have to switch threads. It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
807
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:25:00 -
[1627] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met. You've met me? When did that happen? I'm afraid it didn't make a lasting impression. Ahhh - semantics - the last bastion of the desperate.
Did you read the drivel it was in reply to? Semantics? Right.
Lucas Kell wrote: Just FYI, Erotica 1's evidence also showed the "victim" hurling real life death threats and racial abuse, as well as several other people on the bonus room side. Seems strange they were so selective in the interpretation of the evidence. It almost seems like they weren't even responding to the evidence at all, but to the public outcry and the CSM with a personal vendetta.
D.
|
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
965
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:26:00 -
[1628] - Quote
Moja Hinken wrote:Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met.
does it have to be an either or, here?
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2954
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:28:00 -
[1629] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: I am choosing to go a different way with this and publicly discuss said questions instead. I understand that no player speaks on behalf of CCP. Ok. Where is your list of said questions? You have clearly stated that you have no interest in an answer from CCP on your questions, and instead want to discuss YOUR questions with the rest of us. So, lets do this. Where are your questions? Well realistically, there's loads, but to lead with a few:
- How far outside of EVE does the EULA/ToS now extend?
- What mediums are covered by the harassment rules now that jurisdiction has been extended?
- As the previously stated response from GMs is "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.", is the EULA/ToS to be updated to reflect this?
- Are bans being applied retroactively, and if so, how far back are scenarios being investigated as harassment?
- Can members of the community who have previously petitioned against harassment closed off due to the rule above reopen their tickets and have them reinvestigated under the new rules, and if so how far back can that be done?
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2524
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:29:00 -
[1630] - Quote
D
I did read what it was replied to.
It still comes down to the fact that there is nothing left to say here. The decision has been made. I've answered Lucas' questions (and he quoted me repeatedly)
You seem to want to repeat that sohkar was abusive. He was. After two hours of being abused to save someone's in game reputation. Whilst I would not condone what he said, and hope I would not reach that point, what is your point?
Have you never said something in anger and then regretted it? I know I have. Your failure to grasp the wider situation is for you to sort out. Nothing I can say will change that. Aaaaaaand relax. |
|
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
68
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:29:00 -
[1631] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:They cant as that would be a public statement condoning harassment of a player as long is it does not cause a headache.
To use the appropriate analogy, If a criminal incriminates himself, on say Facebook gets caught and goes to prison for a crime. The prosecutor and police have every right to use that evidence.
lets say criminal B breaks the law gets away with it by not spreading it over facebook. His actions are still morally reprehensible , and illegal, but hes got away with it , and the police and prosecutor office may not have enough evidence to convict. Lack of evidence does not make somthing ok. It just makes it harder to prosecute It wouldn't it would be a restatement of the exact same policy they've had for 10 years, which is that they only deal with situations that occur within EVE, and not on third party websites or comms tools. CCP are not a court of law, their responsibility ends when EVE does, the same as Facebook's responsibility ends with Facebook. Facebook wouldn't ban a user for a statement they made on twitter, even if it was against a Facebook user.
they would if facebook was also used in that scenario. In-game content was used to coerce the victims compliance . Thats what gives CCP the right to intervene here. The evidence can be used by CCP as it was published by the perpetrator , . When it comes to the service they provide they can cut it off if they can justify the breaking of the EULA with regards to service content use just like any service provider. Its CCP service and rules. If you dont like it unsub |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2954
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:30:00 -
[1632] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Moja Hinken wrote:Don't understand why you all are trying to debate with Lucas Kell and Danalee. It has been made very clear to us how CCP feels. It has been made very clear to both of them individually by several of you. They are either trolls or the dumbest people I have ever met. You've met me? When did that happen? I'm afraid it didn't make a lasting impression. Come on Lucas, you are running out of steam. Pick up the pace, I might have to switch threads. I'm doing stuff, you'll have to help out in making some of the fun.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
134
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:32:00 -
[1633] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: I am choosing to go a different way with this and publicly discuss said questions instead. I understand that no player speaks on behalf of CCP. Ok. Where is your list of said questions? You have clearly stated that you have no interest in an answer from CCP on your questions, and instead want to discuss YOUR questions with the rest of us. So, lets do this. Where are your questions? Well realistically, there's loads, but to lead with a few:
- How far outside of EVE does the EULA/ToS now extend?
- What mediums are covered by the harassment rules now that jurisdiction has been extended?
- As the previously stated response from GMs is "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.", is the EULA/ToS to be updated to reflect this?
- Are bans being applied retroactively, and if so, how far back are scenarios being investigated as harassment?
- Can members of the community who have previously petitioned against harassment closed off due to the rule above reopen their tickets and have them reinvestigated under the new rules, and if so how far back can that be done?
Answer: maybe, possibly, depends, could be, moderate yourself don't make CCP have to do it, no, yes, It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2954
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:34:00 -
[1634] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:they would if facebook was also used in that scenario. In-game content was used to coerce the victims compliance . Thats what gives CCP the right to intervene here. The evidence can be used by CCP as it was published by the perpetrator , . When it comes to the service they provide they can cut it off if they can justify the breaking of the EULA with regards to service content use just like any service provider. Its CCP service and rules. If you dont like it unsub No, they really wouldn't. If we had a chat on facebook, then I got you to come over to twitter and harassed you, that would be entirely for twitter to deal with. The thing is, that's the exact same way CCP have operated since the beginning of EVE. They've only changed their stance now due to public outcry. And CCP have the right to intervene wherever they want, but we also have the right to know how far outside of CCPs services they are going to enforce their EULA. I'm quite shocked that so many members of the community seem to be happy with being given zero information on the extend of the rule changes when they can't even do a patch without patch notes and not instantly get hundreds of threads about it. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2524
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:34:00 -
[1635] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: I am choosing to go a different way with this and publicly discuss said questions instead. I understand that no player speaks on behalf of CCP. Ok. Where is your list of said questions? You have clearly stated that you have no interest in an answer from CCP on your questions, and instead want to discuss YOUR questions with the rest of us. So, lets do this. Where are your questions? Well realistically, there's loads, but to lead with a few:
- How far outside of EVE does the EULA/ToS now extend?
- What mediums are covered by the harassment rules now that jurisdiction has been extended?
- As the previously stated response from GMs is "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.", is the EULA/ToS to be updated to reflect this?
- Are bans being applied retroactively, and if so, how far back are scenarios being investigated as harassment?
- Can members of the community who have previously petitioned against harassment closed off due to the rule above reopen their tickets and have them reinvestigated under the new rules, and if so how far back can that be done?
1. Hasn't changed. If someone is using CCP's software to facilitate something they feel uncomfortable with then they can do whatever they please. 2. If those mediums are being used to abuse a player so that CCP feels uncomforatble being associate with it then they can act as they see fit. 3. It doesn't need updating - see above 4. If you provide some information on an occurrence that you feel needs looking at I am sure they will consider it. 5. I know you had to pad out your list of questions but the above answers all apply. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Salvos Rhoska
905
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:39:00 -
[1636] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Well realistically, there's loads, but to lead with a few:
- How far outside of EVE does the EULA/ToS now extend?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- What mediums are covered by the harassment rules now that jurisdiction has been extended?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- As the previously stated response from GMs is "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.", is the EULA/ToS to be updated to reflect this?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- Are bans being applied retroactively, and if so, how far back are scenarios being investigated as harassment?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- Can members of the community who have previously petitioned against harassment closed off due to the rule above reopen their tickets and have them reinvestigated under the new rules, and if so how far back can that be done?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
There you go. My answers are in bold. Consider your questions answered from a public perspective.
If you wish for actual answers to these, then ADDRESS THEM TO CCP.
You disappoint me deeply.... You made a big hullabaloo about saying you want to discuss your questions with other players, but it turns out that EACH SINGLE ONE of your questions are ones that no member of the public is capable of answering. They are EXCLUSIVELY for CCP to answer.
My earlier recommendation still carries. Address your questions to CCP. ------------ |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
68
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:40:00 -
[1637] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4412145#post4412145
^^ read that sums up nicely
CCP FALCON Quote
" In terms of hard data based on player age, we have an extremely mature community.
It's quite clear that we also have an extremely intelligent community, even if sometimes the content posted on these forums is to the contrary. I think that playing EVE requires a certain level of intelligence, thickness of skin, and ability to deal with your fellow man in circumstances that are sometimes not to your favor.
However, there's a line as to how severe those circumstances should get, and I'll paraphrase Mynxee by saying that this line needs to be drawn at the point where the alleged victim starts to lose emotional control. We can't set an arbirarty line for this, as this is different for everyone, and every situation. There must be a willingness by those involved to recognise when that point has been reached and realize, with positive community spirit in mind, that they should stop and honor that line with humaine and decent behaviour.
In the same respect, there must also be a level of responsibility held by CCP to ensure that we have the wellbeing of our community and each of our players at the forefront of our minds during the decision making process when an issue like this comes up.
It may be regarded as an "arbitrary" decision from the outside, but generally issues of this nature are investigated by multiple teams within CCP for a number of weeks before any action is taken and due to our privacy policy, we aren't going to release information on individual cases.
We have done this only once in the past, and this was due to the fact that the individual involved was the chairman of the Council of Stellar Management, which put us in an extraordinary position in terms of clariflying the situation.
In the end, scam, AWOX and betray eachother as much as you like. Steal from eachother as much as you like. Gank, pod and sabotage eachother as much as you like. These are the stories that drive gameplay in EVE, and we are not looking to re-define the sandbox. We do however need to make it clear that in the, end every sandbox has edges just the same as EVE has limits, and those limits are built on a basic level of empathy, understanding and humaine behavior.
EVE has a community that to be perfectly honest, I've been extremely proud to be a part of for the last 11 years despite all the ups and downs, the drama, the summer of rage, the bad posting and the sometimes inappropriate content that comes out of it. That community is core to EVE's continued success, and the last 11 years of history is built on the shoulders of everyone who has touched New Eden.
Being asked to take on the role of Community Manager for EVE Online last year was both a surprise and a priviliege. Believe me, after being so close to the core of the community we've built over the last 11 years, there's nothing more I want than to see it continue to grow, but we are not in a position where we can paint ourselves into a corner in terms of being able to act on our own policies with the health and wellbeing of our community in mind. " |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2525
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:40:00 -
[1638] - Quote
Quote:ADDRESS THEM TO CCCP
Putin?
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2956
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:42:00 -
[1639] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:D
I did read what it was replied to.
It still comes down to the fact that there is nothing left to say here. The decision has been made. I've answered Lucas' questions (and he quoted me repeatedly)
You seem to want to repeat that sohkar was abusive. He was. After two hours of being abused to save someone's in game reputation. Whilst I would not condone what he said, and hope I would not reach that point, what is your point?
Have you never said something in anger and then regretted it? I know I have. Your failure to grasp the wider situation is for you to sort out. Nothing I can say will change that. I disagree, there's always more to say. It's never to late to take on board more responses to a subject and continue to re-evaluate your own position and the positions of others.
Sure I've said things out of anger. I, however, have never and would never repeatedly hurl racist remarks at another individual, no matter what the circumstances. And I most certainly would not hurl abuse after choosing to perform random tasks asked of me over a computer game when I could easily walk away at any time. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2956
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:42:00 -
[1640] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Well realistically, there's loads, but to lead with a few:
- How far outside of EVE does the EULA/ToS now extend?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- What mediums are covered by the harassment rules now that jurisdiction has been extended?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- As the previously stated response from GMs is "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.", is the EULA/ToS to be updated to reflect this?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- Are bans being applied retroactively, and if so, how far back are scenarios being investigated as harassment?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- Can members of the community who have previously petitioned against harassment closed off due to the rule above reopen their tickets and have them reinvestigated under the new rules, and if so how far back can that be done?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
There you go. My answers are in bold. Consider your questions answered from a public perspective. If you wish for actual answers to these, then ADDRESS THEM TO CCP.You disappoint me deeply.... You made a big point about saying you want to discuss your questions with other questions, but it turns out that EACH SINGLE ONE of your questions are ones that no member of the public is capable of answering. My earlier recommendation still carries. Address your questions to CCP. No thanks, I'll continue to ask here. Once again, thanks for the suggestion. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
905
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:44:00 -
[1641] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Well realistically, there's loads, but to lead with a few:
- How far outside of EVE does the EULA/ToS now extend?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- What mediums are covered by the harassment rules now that jurisdiction has been extended?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- As the previously stated response from GMs is "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.", is the EULA/ToS to be updated to reflect this?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- Are bans being applied retroactively, and if so, how far back are scenarios being investigated as harassment?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- Can members of the community who have previously petitioned against harassment closed off due to the rule above reopen their tickets and have them reinvestigated under the new rules, and if so how far back can that be done?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
There you go. My answers are in bold. Consider your questions answered from a public perspective. If you wish for actual answers to these, then ADDRESS THEM TO CCP.You disappoint me deeply.... You made a big point about saying you want to discuss your questions with other questions, but it turns out that EACH SINGLE ONE of your questions are ones that no member of the public is capable of answering. My earlier recommendation still carries. Address your questions to CCP. No thanks, I'll continue to ask here. Once again, thanks for the suggestion.
None of us can answer your questions. Nor do we have any business pretending to be able to. They are matters of CCPs internal policy and authority. Not ours.
Its like you are walking into a bank and asking the customers about whether you can get a loan or not, then getting angry at them that they can't answer you, or that the customers wont give you a loan on the behalf of the bank whos premises you are standing in.
Full, pants-on-head potato mode. ------------ |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:44:00 -
[1642] - Quote
Anyone find out how long the ban is? All of this sperging could be over a 30 day or something... |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
68
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:45:00 -
[1643] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Well realistically, there's loads, but to lead with a few:
- How far outside of EVE does the EULA/ToS now extend?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- What mediums are covered by the harassment rules now that jurisdiction has been extended?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- As the previously stated response from GMs is "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.", is the EULA/ToS to be updated to reflect this?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- Are bans being applied retroactively, and if so, how far back are scenarios being investigated as harassment?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
- Can members of the community who have previously petitioned against harassment closed off due to the rule above reopen their tickets and have them reinvestigated under the new rules, and if so how far back can that be done?
I have no idea. Ask CCP.
There you go. My answers are in bold. Consider your questions answered from a public perspective. If you wish for actual answers to these, then ADDRESS THEM TO CCP.You disappoint me deeply.... You made a big point about saying you want to discuss your questions with other questions, but it turns out that EACH SINGLE ONE of your questions are ones that no member of the public is capable of answering. My earlier recommendation still carries. Address your questions to CCP. No thanks, I'll continue to ask here. Once again, thanks for the suggestion.
Let me ask you. What do you consider acceptable behaviour towards another human being.
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2525
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:46:00 -
[1644] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:D
I did read what it was replied to.
It still comes down to the fact that there is nothing left to say here. The decision has been made. I've answered Lucas' questions (and he quoted me repeatedly)
You seem to want to repeat that sohkar was abusive. He was. After two hours of being abused to save someone's in game reputation. Whilst I would not condone what he said, and hope I would not reach that point, what is your point?
Have you never said something in anger and then regretted it? I know I have. Your failure to grasp the wider situation is for you to sort out. Nothing I can say will change that. I disagree, there's always more to say. It's never to late to take on board more responses to a subject and continue to re-evaluate your own position and the positions of others. Sure I've said things out of anger. I, however, have never and would never repeatedly hurl racist remarks at another individual, no matter what the circumstances. And I most certainly would not hurl abuse after choosing to perform random tasks asked of me over a computer game when I could easily walk away at any time.
Indeed - and as such perhaps you have a higher level of cognition than some of the people that find themselves in these situations.
It still doesn't make pushing them to an edge, morally OK. If you were in that situation as the person executing the scam I would hope that you could see the point where it stopped being funny. My line is probably waaaay before yours or Ero1's.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
170
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:47:00 -
[1645] - Quote
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Helena Russell Makanen wrote:Dorn Val wrote:
Actually I have done that and I reached the conclusions that have driven my posts. I still do not agree with how this situation was handled.
Dorn I think everyone realizes you do not agree with how this situation was handled by now. But if you prefer post it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I am sure it will change everything. Dorn Val looks at your corporation and wants you to point to the doll and show everyone where the miner bumpers touched you :) IIRC I have only ever seen a miner bumper once across several Eve accounts. He was having a hissy fit in local because he got concorded after bravely firing on an un-armed mining ship. Was kinda cute.
LOL. Their tears taste like crispy bacon :) Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
807
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:49:00 -
[1646] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:D
I did read what it was replied to.
It still comes down to the fact that there is nothing left to say here. The decision has been made. I've answered Lucas' questions (and he quoted me repeatedly)
You seem to want to repeat that sohkar was abusive. He was. After two hours of being abused to save someone's in game reputation. Whilst I would not condone what he said, and hope I would not reach that point, what is your point?
Have you never said something in anger and then regretted it? I know I have. Your failure to grasp the wider situation is for you to sort out. Nothing I can say will change that.
Not only do I want to repeat Sokhar was abusive but also that said abuse started early on in the conversation not after 2 hours of stalling and ranting on his part and that of the others present. Also he wasn't abused and there was no intent to harm him. To add insult to injury, intent can't be made clear by listening to that recording and usually those things don't have the effect it had with Sokhar. If the intent was to get the contestant to rage than they failed 99.9% of the time. You think I fail to grasp the wider situation while ignoring the blogpost of Ripard that got this whole mess started in the first place. That's the wider situation, sorry you fail to realise that.
Anyhow, so you don't condone calling fellow players stupid because they have a different opinion than you. And Lucas prefers CCP to answer the questions directed to them instead of another player. I feel you should at least respect that.
Wait... CSM Mike Azariah thinks it's cool to call people stupid. I'll concede and go cry in a corner after being forum neutered by a CSM.
Or not.
D.
|
Salvos Rhoska
905
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:51:00 -
[1647] - Quote
Danalee wrote:And Lucas prefers CCP to answer the questions directed to them instead of another player. I feel you should at least respect that
Uhm no.
He has repeatedly refused to present his questions directly to CCP.
Instead he is asked OTHER PLAYERS.
Which is exactly the opposite of what you think.
Please, try to keep up and read accurately. You are just embarrassing yourself. ------------ |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:52:00 -
[1648] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Jayem See wrote:D
I did read what it was replied to.
It still comes down to the fact that there is nothing left to say here. The decision has been made. I've answered Lucas' questions (and he quoted me repeatedly)
You seem to want to repeat that sohkar was abusive. He was. After two hours of being abused to save someone's in game reputation. Whilst I would not condone what he said, and hope I would not reach that point, what is your point?
Have you never said something in anger and then regretted it? I know I have. Your failure to grasp the wider situation is for you to sort out. Nothing I can say will change that. Not only do I want to repeat Sokhar was abusive but also that said abuse started early on in the conversation not after 2 hours of stalling and ranting on his part and that of the others present. Also he wasn't abused and there was no intent to harm him. To add insult to injury, intent can't be made clear by listening to that recording and usually those things don't have the effect it had with Sokhar. If the intent was to get the contestant to rage than they failed 99.9% of the time. You think I fail to grasp the wider situation while ignoring the blogpost of Ripard that got this whole mess started in the first place. That's the wider situation, sorry you fail to realise that. Anyhow, so you don't condone calling fellow players stupid because they have a different opinion than you. And Lucas prefers CCP to answer the questions directed to them instead of another player. I feel you should at least respect that. Wait... CSM Mike Azariah thinks it's cool to call people stupid. I'll concede and go cry in a corner after being forum neutered by a CSM. Or not. D.
stupid...concede...Nuetered...cry... you are trying to entice me aren't you. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2958
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:54:00 -
[1649] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:None of us can answer your questions. Nor do we have any business pretending to be able to. They are matters of CCPs internal policy and authority. Not ours.
Its like you are walking into a bank and asking the customers about whether you can get a loan or not, then getting angry at them that they can't answer you, or that the customers wont give you a loan on the behalf of the bank whos premises you are standing in.
Full, pants-on-head potato mode. I am perfectly happy to continue to do so. And note that I am in no way angered by any of this. Why does it bother you so much that I want to exercise my rights to free speech? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2525
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:55:00 -
[1650] - Quote
Quote:Not only do I want to repeat Sokhar was abusive but also that said abuse started early on in the conversation not after 2 hours of stalling and ranting on his part and that of the others present. Also he wasn't abused and there was no intent to harm him. To add insult to injury, intent can't be made clear by listening to that recording and usually those things don't have the effect it had with Sokhar. If the intent was to get the contestant to rage than they failed 99.9% of the time. You think I fail to grasp the wider situation while ignoring the blogpost of Ripard that got this whole mess started in the first place. That's the wider situation, sorry you fail to realise that.
Anyhow, so you don't condone calling fellow players stupid because they have a different opinion than you. And Lucas prefers CCP to answer the questions directed to them instead of another player. I feel you should at least respect that.
Wait... CSM Mike Azariah thinks it's cool to call people stupid. I'll concede and go cry in a corner after being forum neutered by a CSM.
Or not.
If you really want to go back to how this started then Jester is not the place to be looking. Erotica1 is the one that put this out there. Start there. If someone found it offensive, and said so, then they are exercising the same right that you are defending from Lucas.
I will defend Lucas' right to post his questions (whilst not acknowledging the fact that I have answered them) as much as your right to be annoyed with the CSM.
As for calling people stupid - I am not responsible for other people's comments Aaaaaaand relax. |
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
807
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:00:00 -
[1651] - Quote
Jayem See wrote: If you really want to go back to how this started then Jester is not the place to be looking. Erotica1 is the one that put this out there. Start there.
The wider picture is that Erotica 1 has been doing this for a long time and has been putting this out there for a long time. On top of that the specific case of Shokar was even linked on these forums and allmost everyone was laughing about it or shoked by the death threats, racism and gay bashing in the recording.
UNTILL a member of the CSM posted a blog post, a month later saying Ero was a terrible person, torturing players et all. He posted this because CCP didn't want to ban Ero when he asked them to. THAT is the wider picture.
D.
|
Salvos Rhoska
906
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:00:00 -
[1652] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I am perfectly happy to continue to do so. And note that I am in no way angered by any of this. Why does it bother you so much that I want to exercise my rights to free speech?
You mean why you keep insisting on asking PLAYERS things that only CCP can answer? Why you asininely avoid addressing them to the only actual source that can answer them?
As I said, you are like some confused individual that walks into a bank, and starts asking the other customers there whether you can get a loan or not, and then getting angry at them when they tell you that "hey, crazy guy, I'm not the bank manager, I'm just a customer here." GO TALK TO THE BANK MANAGER.
I am also in no way angered or bothered by this. I am, infact, extremely amused by it. Keep digging yourself deeper. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2960
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:00:00 -
[1653] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:No thanks, I'll continue to ask here. Once again, thanks for the suggestion. Let me ask you. What do you consider acceptable behaviour towards another human being. I would say normal, socially accepted behaviour. That's a pretty tough one to explicity state all of the different ways to not be mean, so I guess it's best summed up as "treat others as you'd like to be treated".
Judging by this though, I think you must misunderstand my position in all of this. At no point am I stating that Erotica 1's behaviour should be marked as socially acceptable behaviour, but CCP have explicitly stated to victims of harassment in the past that attacks that happen outside of the game are nothing to do with them and they can't do anything. So this situation is a departure from that rule.
So if CCP are branching out to third party services, how far does that extend? At what point when I am interacting with member of the EVE community outside of EVE does the EULA stop covering me? And why did Erotica 1 get punished while Sohkar who broke several parts of the EULA and in fact the actual law get no punishment?
The answer is pretty clear, CCP were caving to public pressure brought on by the witch hunt Ripard started. What are your opinions on that? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
906
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:03:00 -
[1654] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:No thanks, I'll continue to ask here. Once again, thanks for the suggestion. Let me ask you. What do you consider acceptable behaviour towards another human being. I would say normal, socially accepted behaviour.
We got a real genius here. ------------ |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:04:00 -
[1655] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Sure I've said things out of anger. I, however, have never and would never repeatedly hurl racist remarks at another individual, no matter what the circumstances. And I most certainly would not hurl abuse after choosing to perform random tasks asked of me over a computer game when I could easily walk away at any time. Think about it from another angle. Let's say you are absolutely right that you can't imagine a situation where you'd do something like that.
What if, though, there's a situation that *could* produce such a response in you, and does? And it's posted on the Internet for people to see?
Sitting here in my nice geek-cave of an office, *I* have a hard time imagining a situation so bad that I'd explode like that, but I'm smart enough to realize that I can't conceive of every effed-up scenario in the world.
And the Bonus Round was effed-up. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2526
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:05:00 -
[1656] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Jayem See wrote: If you really want to go back to how this started then Jester is not the place to be looking. Erotica1 is the one that put this out there. Start there.
The wider picture is that Erotica 1 has been doing this for a long time and has been putting this out there for a long time. On top of that the specific case of Shokar was even linked on these forums and allmost everyone was laughing about it or shoked by the death threats, racism and gay bashing in the recording. UNTILL a member of the CSM posted a blog post, a month later saying Ero was a terrible person, torturing players et all. He posted this because CCP didn't want to ban Ero when he asked them to. THAT is the wider picture. D.
I get you. So a small minority of the playerbase has been laughing about this for along time. Unfortunately somebody with some influence dared to expose it to the wider community.
A lot of that wider community didn't know it was going on and was shocked. The response we all know about.
Does that make it right or justify it? No. Have CCP acted in accordance with their own moral compass as an organisation? Yes.
I knew about minerbumping.com 3 months ago but I didn't read it because it is of no interest to me. Does my ignorance make me complicit? I don't think so. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:06:00 -
[1657] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:No thanks, I'll continue to ask here. Once again, thanks for the suggestion. Let me ask you. What do you consider acceptable behaviour towards another human being. I would say normal, socially accepted behaviour. That's a pretty tough one to explicity state all of the different ways to not be mean, so I guess it's best summed up as "treat others as you'd like to be treated". Judging by this though, I think you must misunderstand my position in all of this. At no point am I stating that Erotica 1's behaviour should be marked as socially acceptable behaviour, but CCP have explicitly stated to victims of harassment in the past that attacks that happen outside of the game are nothing to do with them and they can't do anything. So this situation is a departure from that rule. So if CCP are branching out to third party services, how far does that extend? At what point when I am interacting with member of the EVE community outside of EVE does the EULA stop covering me? And why did Erotica 1 get punished while Sohkar who broke several parts of the EULA and in fact the actual law get no punishment? The answer is pretty clear, CCP were caving to public pressure brought on by the witch hunt Ripard started. What are your opinions on that?
I personally think that CCP can do whatever is best for their business and if removing a player form the player-base suits them then they can go ahead and do it. They don't need a reason.
However, they seem pretty reasonable folk so I would imagine that whatever evidence they saw was enough to sway their thinking as well as the entire CSM.
I'm ok with the decision. If I knowingly or unknowingly cross a line that could impact CCP's business I will take my ban like an adult. This is a game,CCP is the owner, you have what rights they give you. |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
399
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:07:00 -
[1658] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Jayem See wrote: If you really want to go back to how this started then Jester is not the place to be looking. Erotica1 is the one that put this out there. Start there.
The wider picture is that Erotica 1 has been doing this for a long time and has been putting this out there for a long time. On top of that the specific case of Shokar was even linked on these forums and allmost everyone was laughing about it or shoked by the death threats, racism and gay bashing in the recording. UNTILL a member of the CSM posted a blog post, a month later saying Ero was a terrible person, torturing players et all. He posted this because CCP didn't want to ban Ero when he asked them to. THAT is the wider picture. D. Slavery was perfectly normal for several centuries until people of conscience spoke out. |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:07:00 -
[1659] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Danalee wrote:Jayem See wrote: If you really want to go back to how this started then Jester is not the place to be looking. Erotica1 is the one that put this out there. Start there.
The wider picture is that Erotica 1 has been doing this for a long time and has been putting this out there for a long time. On top of that the specific case of Shokar was even linked on these forums and allmost everyone was laughing about it or shoked by the death threats, racism and gay bashing in the recording. UNTILL a member of the CSM posted a blog post, a month later saying Ero was a terrible person, torturing players et all. He posted this because CCP didn't want to ban Ero when he asked them to. THAT is the wider picture. D. Slavery was perfectly normal for several centuries until people of conscience spoke out.
/thread |
Salvos Rhoska
908
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:07:00 -
[1660] - Quote
This guy Lucas.
Asking everyone EXCEPT CCP, about what CCP's policy is.
I thought this was supposed to be an intelligent community. Well, it is. But this kind of thing drops the average HARD. ------------ |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2962
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:09:00 -
[1661] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Indeed - and as such perhaps you have a higher level of cognition than some of the people that find themselves in these situations.
It still doesn't make pushing them to an edge, morally OK. If you were in that situation as the person executing the scam I would hope that you could see the point where it stopped being funny. My line is probably waaaay before yours or Ero1's. You are perfectly correct. That in no way excuses Erotica 1's behaviour, which is why I am not jumping up and down and demanding Erotica 1 be unbanned. I just want the rules to be consistent, so all victims are treated the same. People should be refused help because the harassment took part outside of the game, then see another player get help for a different out of game harassment all because a CSM member chose that particular case to start up a hate campaign. Either third party communications are covered by the EULA, or they aren't. Not "sometimes they are if enough people scream about it". That leaves a lot of people feeling like they are too unimportant for the rules to be enforced for them.
To make things worse, in this particular case, Sohkar even stated himself that Erotica 1 should not be banned, so the actual victim in this case was not asking to be helped. So victims who are asking for help are told "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.", while a victim who is accepting what happened as a matter of a bad choice is having the rules bent in his favour due to public outcry,
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:09:00 -
[1662] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sure I've said things out of anger. I, however, have never and would never repeatedly hurl racist remarks at another individual, no matter what the circumstances. And I most certainly would not hurl abuse after choosing to perform random tasks asked of me over a computer game when I could easily walk away at any time. Think about it from another angle. Let's say you are absolutely right that you can't imagine a situation where you'd do something like that. What if, though, there's a situation that *could* produce such a response in you, and does? And it's posted on the Internet for people to see? Sitting here in my nice geek-cave of an office, *I* have a hard time imagining a situation so bad that I'd explode like that, but I'm smart enough to realize that I can't conceive of every effed-up scenario in the world. And the Bonus Round was effed-up.
Agreed.
Teens can play this game. Their parents have no idea what the culture is like. Should a 13-14 yr old be subjected to a bound round? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2962
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:13:00 -
[1663] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:You mean why you keep insisting on asking PLAYERS things that only CCP can answer? Why you asininely avoid addressing them to the only actual source that can answer them?
As I said, you are like some confused individual that walks into a bank, and starts asking the other customers there whether you can get a loan or not, and then getting angry at them when they tell you that "hey, crazy guy, I'm not the bank manager, I'm just a customer here." GO TALK TO THE BANK MANAGER.
I am also in no way angered or bothered by this. I am, infact, extremely amused by it. Keep digging yourself deeper. I'll continue to do that, thanks.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:No thanks, I'll continue to ask here. Once again, thanks for the suggestion. Let me ask you. What do you consider acceptable behaviour towards another human being. I would say normal, socially accepted behaviour. We got a real genius here. Partial quoting, good job buddy. Read the paragraph and it makes sense. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2527
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:14:00 -
[1664] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:Indeed - and as such perhaps you have a higher level of cognition than some of the people that find themselves in these situations.
It still doesn't make pushing them to an edge, morally OK. If you were in that situation as the person executing the scam I would hope that you could see the point where it stopped being funny. My line is probably waaaay before yours or Ero1's. You are perfectly correct. That in no way excuses Erotica 1's behaviour, which is why I am not jumping up and down and demanding Erotica 1 be unbanned. I just want the rules to be consistent, so all victims are treated the same. People should be refused help because the harassment took part outside of the game, then see another player get help for a different out of game harassment all because a CSM member chose that particular case to start up a hate campaign. Either third party communications are covered by the EULA, or they aren't. Not "sometimes they are if enough people scream about it". That leaves a lot of people feeling like they are too unimportant for the rules to be enforced for them. To make things worse, in this particular case, Sohkar even stated himself that Erotica 1 should not be banned, so the actual victim in this case was not asking to be helped. So victims who are asking for help are told "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.", while a victim who is accepting what happened as a matter of a bad choice is having the rules bent in his favour due to public outcry,
First sensible post of the day
I have tried to explain to you that Ero1 was using CCP's game to facilitate the actions he took. That's enough for CCP to be able to take action. Nobody has reqritten the TOS or the EULA at all.
I accept that sohkar has said what he has (wonder if he was promised some assets back to do so - tinfoil) but that still doesn't detract from the initial act. Now that you have agreed that Ero1's behaviour was beyond the norm do you see what I am trying to say?
Most people would never go to that extent so this situation does not need clearing up. Nothing has changed. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Salvos Rhoska
908
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:15:00 -
[1665] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:hurrdurr
If you have questions about the specifics of CCP policy.
Then ask CCP about their policy. ------------ |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:15:00 -
[1666] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:CCP were caving to public pressure brought on by the witch hunt Ripard started. What are your opinions on that? Player opinions don't much matter. It's been explained many times that sick crap like the Bonus Room is not something CCP wants associated with their games. Not closely, anyway. The Bonus Room gang stalked people in game, lured them out, and tormented the victims to the limit of their ability.
You think you've discovered a weakness in CCP, that they might worry about public pressure? Every business on Earth shares that worry, and every one will act in ways analogous to what CCP did, when a customer goes creepy on their turf. Caring about hurt feelings is important to human being, and companies care about their images. Furthermore, enthusiastic customers care about those images, too, as well as their own personal reputations.
Just don't expect me to be surprised by this amazing revelation. "Caving"? Find a more substantial accusation, and don't expect this one to sting.
|
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:16:00 -
[1667] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:So a small minority of the playerbase has been laughing about this for a long time. Unfortunately somebody with some influence dared to expose it to the wider community.
A lot of that wider community didn't know it was going on and was shocked. The response we all know about.
Does that make it right or justify it? No. Have CCP acted in accordance with their own moral compass as an organisation? Yes.
I knew about minerbumping.com 3 months ago but I didn't read it because it is of no interest to me. Does my ignorance make me complicit? I don't think so. Yeah, I knew about minerbumping over a year ago and was too bored/busy to keep up with it. For as long as I've been subbed to EVE, I've almost never read the forums and didn't post here until last week. I've got several private message boards' worth of EVE posts to keep up with.
My SO is a blogger, though, and keeps up with that world, and he posted a link on one of our boards last week to Ripard's Bonus Round post. I spent a while checking into the claims he made and decided for myself what I thought about it.
So yeah, it's fair to say Ripard's post had an effect. But many (most?) who've objected to the Bonus Round aren't doing it on Ripard's say-so. There's a lot of stuff going on in the EVE Universe and not enough time to keep up with it all. Ripard merely directed the EVE community's attention to some trash that needed taking out. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2962
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:18:00 -
[1668] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sure I've said things out of anger. I, however, have never and would never repeatedly hurl racist remarks at another individual, no matter what the circumstances. And I most certainly would not hurl abuse after choosing to perform random tasks asked of me over a computer game when I could easily walk away at any time. Think about it from another angle. Let's say you are absolutely right that you can't imagine a situation where you'd do something like that. What if, though, there's a situation that *could* produce such a response in you, and does? And it's posted on the Internet for people to see? Sitting here in my nice geek-cave of an office, *I* have a hard time imagining a situation so bad that I'd explode like that, but I'm smart enough to realize that I can't conceive of every effed-up scenario in the world. And the Bonus Round was effed-up. It's pretty easy to state that under no circumstance would I turn to racial abuse since I'm not in any way a racist. When you are pushed you tend to strike out more instinctively and say things before your mind has filtered them. Racist remarks are not filtered out during my every day speech, they are simply not generated to begin with, so while I may use a vast array of selected profanities when pushed beyond a limit, there is no situation ever in which I would hurl racist abuse voluntarily, regardless of my level of stress.
I certainly wouldn't use them in the way they were used on the recording. Have you actually listened to it? They are not just the odd word thrown out in a moment of anger, they are calculated racist attacks.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2527
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:20:00 -
[1669] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sure I've said things out of anger. I, however, have never and would never repeatedly hurl racist remarks at another individual, no matter what the circumstances. And I most certainly would not hurl abuse after choosing to perform random tasks asked of me over a computer game when I could easily walk away at any time. Think about it from another angle. Let's say you are absolutely right that you can't imagine a situation where you'd do something like that. What if, though, there's a situation that *could* produce such a response in you, and does? And it's posted on the Internet for people to see? Sitting here in my nice geek-cave of an office, *I* have a hard time imagining a situation so bad that I'd explode like that, but I'm smart enough to realize that I can't conceive of every effed-up scenario in the world. And the Bonus Round was effed-up. It's pretty easy to state that under no circumstance would I turn to racial abuse since I'm not in any way a racist. When you are pushed you tend to strike out more instinctively and say things before your mind has filtered them. Racist remarks are not filtered out during my every day speech, they are simply not generated to begin with, so while I may use a vast array of selected profanities when pushed beyond a limit, there is no situation ever in which I would hurl racist abuse voluntarily, regardless of my level of stress. I certainly wouldn't use them in the way they were used on the recording. Have you actually listened to it? They are not just the odd word thrown out in a moment of anger, they are calculated racist attacks.
Not entirely sure that sohkar was in a position to be "calculated" about anything at that point. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Salvos Rhoska
908
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:21:00 -
[1670] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I may use a vast array of selected profanities when pushed beyond a limit, there is no situation ever in which I would hurl racist abuse voluntarily, regardless of my level of stress.
Prove it. ------------ |
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
808
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:22:00 -
[1671] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Danalee wrote:Jayem See wrote: If you really want to go back to how this started then Jester is not the place to be looking. Erotica1 is the one that put this out there. Start there.
The wider picture is that Erotica 1 has been doing this for a long time and has been putting this out there for a long time. On top of that the specific case of Shokar was even linked on these forums and allmost everyone was laughing about it or shoked by the death threats, racism and gay bashing in the recording. UNTILL a member of the CSM posted a blog post, a month later saying Ero was a terrible person, torturing players et all. He posted this because CCP didn't want to ban Ero when he asked them to. THAT is the wider picture. D. I get you. So a small minority of the playerbase has been laughing about this for a long time. Unfortunately somebody with some influence dared to expose it to the wider community. A lot of that wider community didn't know it was going on and was shocked. The response we all know about. Does that make it right or justify it? No. Have CCP acted in accordance with their own moral compass as an organisation? Yes. I knew about minerbumping.com 3 months ago but I didn't read it because it is of no interest to me. Does my ignorance make me complicit? I don't think so.
I wasn't talking about minerbumping, but the EVE ONLINE OFFICIAL forums. It doesn't matter. CCP has had many opportunities to put a stop to it. They didn't.
Many people didn't know about it and were shocked, agreed. But the first time it came to light, they were shocked about the racist, anti gay remarks and the death threats. The second time, when someone blew it all out of proportion the reaction was indeed different. No denying that.
It still is of no concern to me. I really don't care. I didn't see it as harassement but many people do. I respect that.
CCP Banned Erotica 1 for reasons unknown and without communication. That is my problem. To a non-biased onlooker that is caving to mob/ripard pressure, no matter how much you try to sugarcoat it. The different CSM reps trolling and humiliating other players in this thread is just the big red ribbon arround this bullshit present.
CCP came on record in this thread, before Ero was banned, saying that in cases of harassement people should contact their local law enforcement. That's clear. I understand that. I love it even. It's how it should be. Than they banned Ero. And it doesn't make sense.
I like stuff making sense.
D.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2962
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:22:00 -
[1672] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:First sensible post of the day I have tried to explain to you that Ero1 was using CCP's game to facilitate the actions he took. That's enough for CCP to be able to take action. Nobody has rewritten the TOS or the EULA at all. I accept that sohkar has said what he has (wonder if he was promised some assets back to do so - tinfoil) but that still doesn't detract from the initial act. Now that you have agreed that Ero1's behaviour was beyond the norm do you see what I am trying to say? Most people would never go to that extent so this situation does not need clearing up. Nothing has changed. I agree with most of this, but the problem I still have is that other people being found in game and harassed out of game are still given the line "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.". Why was this exact response, which is a response from a GM, not given to this scenario? Why in this one instance is an "out of game activity"? When not "all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE"?
If this rule was still being enforced, nothing would have happened, since none of the harassment happened in EVE. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
32
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:22:00 -
[1673] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: It's pretty easy to state that under no circumstance would I turn to racial abuse since I'm not in any way a racist. When you are pushed you tend to strike out more instinctively and say things before your mind has filtered them. Racist remarks are not filtered out during my every day speech, they are simply not generated to begin with, so while I may use a vast array of selected profanities when pushed beyond a limit, there is no situation ever in which I would hurl racist abuse voluntarily, regardless of my level of stress.
I certainly wouldn't use them in the way they were used on the recording. Have you actually listened to it? They are not just the odd word thrown out in a moment of anger, they are calculated racist attacks.
Yes, I've listened to several of the audios.
Sohkar's invective was racist, yes, but the real motivator sounded to me like utter desperation. He was completely out of rope, and that's all he had. He had lost lost lost and LOST to those guys for TWO HOURS, and nothing he tried had worked.
I doubt I'd ever say anything racist, since that's not how I roll, but I do entertain the possibility that a situation so eff-ed up could come along that I'd be desperate and freaked out enough to say some stuff I'd NEVER imagine coming out of my mouth.
|
Salvos Rhoska
908
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:24:00 -
[1674] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Why was this exact response, which is a response from a GM, not given to this scenario? Why in this one instance is an "out of game activity"? When not "all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE"?
Why dont you ask CCP directly instead of a player who is no position to answer it? ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2963
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:28:00 -
[1675] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Not entirely sure that sohkar was in a position to be "calculated" about anything at that point. If you listen to the remarks, they are beyond just words of insult. He specifically relates their positions to race and historic events within that race. It's difficult to get the exact meaning across here, but needless to say if you listen to the tail end of the recording, it's clearly not just the odd word slipping out. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2527
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:29:00 -
[1676] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:First sensible post of the day I have tried to explain to you that Ero1 was using CCP's game to facilitate the actions he took. That's enough for CCP to be able to take action. Nobody has rewritten the TOS or the EULA at all. I accept that sohkar has said what he has (wonder if he was promised some assets back to do so - tinfoil) but that still doesn't detract from the initial act. Now that you have agreed that Ero1's behaviour was beyond the norm do you see what I am trying to say? Most people would never go to that extent so this situation does not need clearing up. Nothing has changed. I agree with most of this, but the problem I still have is that other people being found in game and harassed out of game are still given the line "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.". Why was this exact response, which is a response from a GM, not given to this scenario? Why in this one instance is an "out of game activity"? When not "all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE"? If this rule was still being enforced, nothing would have happened, since none of the harassment happened in EVE.
I suppose the only answer that I can give to this is that the initial contact took place within the game.
If I randomly contacted you on Twitter and started abusing you over this conversation, and that continued, then I would expect CCP to remove my character from game. The Twitter side - they can't stop me tweeting you - at that point it is Twitter/law enforcement.
I think you are looking too far into this. CCP's sphere of influence is pretty clear. If you do something that is evidently related to a character of yours within the game, that affects the image of their IP then they can act as they see fit.
That hasn't changed. If Jayem See donated 100m IRL cash to a charity and CCP gave him a free subscription, would you then say "But I donated -ú5 last year do I get a retrospective refund?" It just doesn't make sense. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2963
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:31:00 -
[1677] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Why was this exact response, which is a response from a GM, not given to this scenario? Why in this one instance is an "out of game activity"? When not "all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE"? Why dont you ask CCP directly instead of a player who is no position to answer it? Don't want to. I am exercising my right to free speech. I'm pretty sure we've covered this. I tell you what, continue to suggest the same thing to me over and over, while the rest of us continue the discussion. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2527
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:33:00 -
[1678] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Why was this exact response, which is a response from a GM, not given to this scenario? Why in this one instance is an "out of game activity"? When not "all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE"? Why dont you ask CCP directly instead of a player who is no position to answer it? Don't want to. I am exercising my right to free speech. I'm pretty sure we've covered this. I tell you what, continue to suggest the same thing to me over and over, while the rest of us continue the discussion.
Why don't you address this to C....oh. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Salvos Rhoska
908
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:33:00 -
[1679] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: Why dont you ask CCP directly instead of a player who is no position to answer it?
Don't want to. I am exercising my right to free speech. I'm pretty sure we've covered this. I tell you what, continue to suggest the same thing to me over and over, while the rest of us continue the discussion.
Yes.
I will.
You are asking things only CCP can answer.
And yet you are deliberately not asking CCP.
Something very wrong with that. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2963
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:42:00 -
[1680] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:I suppose the only answer that I can give to this is that the initial contact took place within the game.
If I randomly contacted you on Twitter and started abusing you over this conversation, and that continued, then I would expect CCP to remove my character from game. The Twitter side - they can't stop me tweeting you - at that point it is Twitter/law enforcement.
I think you are looking too far into this. CCP's sphere of influence is pretty clear. If you do something that is evidently related to a character of yours within the game, that affects the image of their IP then they can act as they see fit.
That hasn't changed. If Jayem See donated 100m IRL cash to a charity and CCP gave him a free subscription, would you then say "But I donated -ú5 last year do I get a retrospective refund?" It just doesn't make sense. Their influence isn't clear at all. Previously they have states quite explicitly that if all communications are not in EVE they do nothing. It really is (or was) that simple. If you have a problem out of EVE you should take it up with the law enforcement or the service owners.
And of course, they can react however they wish, that's their right. They can even tell us absolutely nothing about the rules, that again is their right, but that doesn't mean we have to like it or agree. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
68
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:45:00 -
[1681] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:Indeed - and as such perhaps you have a higher level of cognition than some of the people that find themselves in these situations.
It still doesn't make pushing them to an edge, morally OK. If you were in that situation as the person executing the scam I would hope that you could see the point where it stopped being funny. My line is probably waaaay before yours or Ero1's. You are perfectly correct. That in no way excuses Erotica 1's behaviour, which is why I am not jumping up and down and demanding Erotica 1 be unbanned. I just want the rules to be consistent, so all victims are treated the same. People should be refused help because the harassment took part outside of the game, then see another player get help for a different out of game harassment all because a CSM member chose that particular case to start up a hate campaign. Either third party communications are covered by the EULA, or they aren't. Not "sometimes they are if enough people scream about it". That leaves a lot of people feeling like they are too unimportant for the rules to be enforced for them. To make things worse, in this particular case, Sohkar even stated himself that Erotica 1 should not be banned, so the actual victim in this case was not asking to be helped. So victims who are asking for help are told "There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE.", while a victim who is accepting what happened as a matter of a bad choice is having the rules bent in his favour due to public outcry, First sensible post of the day I have tried to explain to you that Ero1 was using CCP's game to facilitate the actions he took. That's enough for CCP to be able to take action. Nobody has rewritten the TOS or the EULA at all. I accept that sohkar has said what he has (wonder if he was promised some assets back to do so - tinfoil) but that still doesn't detract from the initial act. Now that you have agreed that Ero1's behaviour was beyond the norm do you see what I am trying to say? Most people would never go to that extent so this situation does not need clearing up. Nothing has changed.
I think you just answered his question partailly . LOOK at the Bold part of the text. It is the use of CCP game to facilitate his actions that warrants the intervention + the making of these actions public damaging CCP reputation . At the end of the day its there game, there rules |
Drone 16
Law Dogz
136
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:45:00 -
[1682] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: It's pretty easy to state that under no circumstance would I turn to racial abuse since I'm not in any way a racist. When you are pushed you tend to strike out more instinctively and say things before your mind has filtered them. Racist remarks are not filtered out during my every day speech, they are simply not generated to begin with, so while I may use a vast array of selected profanities when pushed beyond a limit, there is no situation ever in which I would hurl racist abuse voluntarily, regardless of my level of stress.
I certainly wouldn't use them in the way they were used on the recording. Have you actually listened to it? They are not just the odd word thrown out in a moment of anger, they are calculated racist attacks.
Yes, I've listened to several of the audios. Sohkar's invective was racist, yes, but the real motivator sounded to me like utter desperation. He was completely out of rope, and that's all he had. He had lost lost lost and LOST to those guys for TWO HOURS, and nothing he tried had worked. I doubt I'd ever say anything racist, since that's not how I roll, but I do entertain the possibility that a situation so eff-ed up could come along that I'd be desperate and freaked out enough to say some stuff I'd NEVER imagine coming out of my mouth.
Well said, Liese It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2527
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:48:00 -
[1683] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:I suppose the only answer that I can give to this is that the initial contact took place within the game.
If I randomly contacted you on Twitter and started abusing you over this conversation, and that continued, then I would expect CCP to remove my character from game. The Twitter side - they can't stop me tweeting you - at that point it is Twitter/law enforcement.
I think you are looking too far into this. CCP's sphere of influence is pretty clear. If you do something that is evidently related to a character of yours within the game, that affects the image of their IP then they can act as they see fit.
That hasn't changed. If Jayem See donated 100m IRL cash to a charity and CCP gave him a free subscription, would you then say "But I donated -ú5 last year do I get a retrospective refund?" It just doesn't make sense. Their influence isn't clear at all. Previously they have states quite explicitly that if all communications are not in EVE they do nothing. It really is (or was) that simple. If you have a problem out of EVE you should take it up with the law enforcement or the service owners. And of course, they can react however they wish, that's their right. They can even tell us absolutely nothing about the rules, that again is their right, but that doesn't mean we have to like it or agree.
Fair enough. This really does come down to semantics (and I don't mean that negatively in this instance.)
For me that is the question that you should be asking CCP - I know you stated you want to ask it here and go for it. It seems to me that you and I have distilled our discussion down to it's core.
I know I won't be able to persuade you of my opinion and I can't see yours. Seeing as you don't want to ask them, I will do it myself. Not out of any high-minded altruism, but because it's possible it is worth asking.
I'd offer you a wager on the outcome but I probably won't be able to discuss it Aaaaaaand relax. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
809
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:48:00 -
[1684] - Quote
I'll try again:
We all know shadoo's outburst. He humiliated a player and called him among other things a ******. IF at that time a CSM would have had an axe to grind and blogged about it you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have no problems finding a couple dozen forum trolls to start a threadnaught. What I know now from what is happened is that CCP would have banned him. Rightly so, the video even has ingame footage, no doubt it happened in EVE online, not on some teamspeak server where they have no control over.
Or do you think they wouldn't have?
D.
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1772
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:49:00 -
[1685] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: Why dont you ask CCP directly instead of a player who is no position to answer it?
Don't want to. I am exercising my right to free speech. I'm pretty sure we've covered this. I tell you what, continue to suggest the same thing to me over and over, while the rest of us continue the discussion. Yes. I will. You are asking things only CCP can answer. And yet you are deliberately not asking CCP. Something very wrong with that.
Whatever you do, don't blow up. Wouldn't want Lucas banned for trapping you here and forcing you to read his posts. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2527
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:53:00 -
[1686] - Quote
Danalee wrote:I'll try again: We all know shadoo's outburst. He humiliated a player and called him among other things a ******. IF at that time a CSM would have had an axe to grind and blogged about it you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have no problems finding a couple dozen forum trolls to start a threadnaught. What I know now from what is happened is that CCP would have banned him. Rightly so, the video even has ingame footage, no doubt it happened in EVE online, not on some teamspeak server where they have no control over. Or do you think they wouldn't have? D.
Straws. You are grasping at. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
173
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 20:58:00 -
[1687] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Danalee wrote:I'll try again: We all know shadoo's outburst. He humiliated a player and called him among other things a ******. IF at that time a CSM would have had an axe to grind and blogged about it you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have no problems finding a couple dozen forum trolls to start a threadnaught. What I know now from what is happened is that CCP would have banned him. Rightly so, the video even has ingame footage, no doubt it happened in EVE online, not on some teamspeak server where they have no control over. Or do you think they wouldn't have? D. Straws. You are grasping at.
Actually I think it's an excellent example.
How long before CCP closes the Crime and Punishment forum? Are people not being humiliated there? Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
527
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:00:00 -
[1688] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:How long before CCP closes the Crime and Punishment forum? Are people not being humiliated there?
Not to the point of harassment.
|
Salvos Rhoska
908
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:00:00 -
[1689] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Whatever you do, don't blow up.
I am safely docked and insured for good measure! ------------ |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
750
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:02:00 -
[1690] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote: Sohkar's invective was racist, yes, but the real motivator sounded to me like utter desperation. He was completely out of rope, and that's all he had. He had lost lost lost and LOST to those guys for TWO HOURS, and nothing he tried had worked.
I doubt I'd ever say anything racist, since that's not how I roll, but I do entertain the possibility that a situation so eff-ed up could come along that I'd be desperate and freaked out enough to say some stuff I'd NEVER imagine coming out of my mouth.
I like how so many people are making excuses for the "Victim" but the scammer must pay. I don't think any amount of rage should excuse racist behavior in game or in RL. If I get upset with someone and say "Look you ____ shut up" it's still wrong. Often peoples true selves come out when they are upset or angry.
Also seek counseling if the loss of digital items causes you to lose emotional control where you can't control your anger against RL people. It's a game... EVE IS NOT REAL... When CCP decides to pull the plug all your crap is going bye bye... When this happens are these people going to snap and harm themselves or other people?
|
|
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
173
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:02:00 -
[1691] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Dorn Val wrote:How long before CCP closes the Crime and Punishment forum? Are people not being humiliated there? Not to the point of harassment.
How can you tell? Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Salvos Rhoska
908
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:03:00 -
[1692] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:How can you tell? Cos they haven't been banned. ------------ |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
173
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:05:00 -
[1693] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Dorn Val wrote:How can you tell? Cos they haven't been banned.
Seriously made me laugh out loud! :) Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
809
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:06:00 -
[1694] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Dorn Val wrote:How can you tell? Cos they haven't been banned. Prove it maybe?
D.
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2528
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:08:00 -
[1695] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Dorn Val wrote:How can you tell? Cos they haven't been banned. Prove it maybe? D.
I've been harrassing you on the forums all night and I am still here Aaaaaaand relax. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
778
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:10:00 -
[1696] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: It's pretty easy to state that under no circumstance would I turn to racial abuse since I'm not in any way a racist. When you are pushed you tend to strike out more instinctively and say things before your mind has filtered them. Racist remarks are not filtered out during my every day speech, they are simply not generated to begin with, so while I may use a vast array of selected profanities when pushed beyond a limit, there is no situation ever in which I would hurl racist abuse voluntarily, regardless of my level of stress.
I certainly wouldn't use them in the way they were used on the recording. Have you actually listened to it? They are not just the odd word thrown out in a moment of anger, they are calculated racist attacks.
Yes, I've listened to several of the audios. Sohkar's invective was racist, yes, but the real motivator sounded to me like utter desperation. He was completely out of rope, and that's all he had. He had lost lost lost and LOST to those guys for TWO HOURS, and nothing he tried had worked. I doubt I'd ever say anything racist, since that's not how I roll, but I do entertain the possibility that a situation so eff-ed up could come along that I'd be desperate and freaked out enough to say some stuff I'd NEVER imagine coming out of my mouth. I'll add that this is exactly the reaction these individuals are hoping to provoke out of their victims. It's extra gravy when they can get the victim to rage-quit or banned for raging. They want to inflict as much real life damage as possible under the pretense that "it's just pixels", and then turn around and claim that they are the ones that are well-adjusted in real life. I think Erotica 1 claimed at some point he's a good "Catholic" who helps the needy in real life, implying he isn't capable of such malice in the real world. He's either incapable of differentiating between in-game and real life or is using deception to excuse his twisted behavior. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
810
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:12:00 -
[1697] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Danalee wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Dorn Val wrote:How can you tell? Cos they haven't been banned. Prove it maybe? I've been harrassing you on the forums all night and I am still here
I didn't realise you were harassing me. Does that maybe make a difference?
D.
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2528
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:13:00 -
[1698] - Quote
Still no word from TMC. This is very strange. Eve's premier reporting service seems to be focusing on goat simulators. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2528
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:14:00 -
[1699] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Jayem See wrote:Danalee wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Dorn Val wrote:How can you tell? Cos they haven't been banned. Prove it maybe? I've been harrassing you on the forums all night and I am still here I didn't realise you were harassing me. Does that maybe make a difference? D.
Heh - I don't generally reduce people to apoplexy when I do it Aaaaaaand relax. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
527
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:15:00 -
[1700] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Still no word from TMC. This is very strange. Eve's premier reporting service seems to be focusing on goat simulators.
Because goat simulators are more important than Mr. "I am a minority- a white male American who was in the Army" Erotica1 ? |
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2529
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:16:00 -
[1701] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Jayem See wrote:Still no word from TMC. This is very strange. Eve's premier reporting service seems to be focusing on goat simulators. Because goat simulators are more important than Mr. "I am a minority- a white male American who was in the Army" Erotica1 ?
That was quick. Just checking. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
967
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:21:00 -
[1702] - Quote
I did not call anyone stupid (that you know of)
I asked why the choice was binary . . . . why either/or not both (or neither)
But if you wish to take offence I am curious. Should I be banned? If you don't take offence but a third person does for you, then falls the banhammer?
If CCP decides I am just being a smart ass (as I occasionally am) and that any offence taken (by victim or third party) is overdoing it do they have the right to choose whether to ban me or not, based on their own judgement?
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2532
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:24:00 -
[1703] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I did not call anyone stupid (that you know of)
I asked why the choice was binary . . . . why either/or not both (or neither)
But if you wish to take offence I am curious. Should I be banned? If you don't take offence but a third person does for you, then falls the banhammer?
If CCP decides I am just being a smart ass (as I occasionally am) and that any offence taken (by victim or third party) is overdoing it do they have the right to choose whether to ban me or not, based on their own judgement?
m
That response was almost as late as the minutes! Good job! Aaaaaaand relax. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
967
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:27:00 -
[1704] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:
That response was almost as late as the minutes! Good job!
I was out for a while in this thing called the real world.
Over rated.
Actually I am trying to get out of here but I have so much time invested I keep feeling like I am drawn back in involuntarily.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1776
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:27:00 -
[1705] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Dorn Val wrote:How can you tell? Cos they haven't been banned.
Maybe they're saving the ban till another CSM makes a torture post. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10463
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:27:00 -
[1706] - Quote
I'm glad that CCP chooses to delete entire threads that bring their double standards to light (i.e. Remiel's thread) without addressing the issue at hand, and their GMs will enforce the same double standards. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2532
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:27:00 -
[1707] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I did not call anyone stupid (that you know of)
I asked why the choice was binary . . . . why either/or not both (or neither)
But if you wish to take offence I am curious. Should I be banned? If you don't take offence but a third person does for you, then falls the banhammer?
If CCP decides I am just being a smart ass (as I occasionally am) and that any offence taken (by victim or third party) is overdoing it do they have the right to choose whether to ban me or not, based on their own judgement?
m
Just a question - and very off topic. Once CSM member has moved on can they then discuss stuff like this or is it covered by NDA? I assume it would be (not to mention being bad form) but just wondered. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2532
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:28:00 -
[1708] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Jayem See wrote:
That response was almost as late as the minutes! Good job!
I was out for a while in this thing called the real world. Over rated. Actually I am trying to get out of here but I have so much time invested I keep feeling like I am drawn back in involuntarily. m
It was just a joke - no need to drop the banhammer on me =) Aaaaaaand relax. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
967
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:29:00 -
[1709] - Quote
Jayem See wrote: Just a question - and very off topic. Once CSM member has moved on can they then discuss stuff like this or is it covered by NDA? I assume it would be (not to mention being bad form) but just wondered.
I am not joking, here.
The NDA is NDA'd
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
528
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:29:00 -
[1710] - Quote
Andski wrote:I'm glad that CCP chooses to delete entire threads that bring their double standards to light (i.e. Remiel's thread) without addressing the issue at hand, and their GMs will enforce the same double standards.
CCP always deleted threads that showed GM communication. Or force-deleted bios that included links to GM communication. |
|
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
176
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:29:00 -
[1711] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Dorn Val wrote:How can you tell? Cos they haven't been banned. Maybe they're saving the ban till another CSM makes a torture post.
Ouch it burns! :) Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2532
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:30:00 -
[1712] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Jayem See wrote: Just a question - and very off topic. Once CSM member has moved on can they then discuss stuff like this or is it covered by NDA? I assume it would be (not to mention being bad form) but just wondered.
I am not joking, here. The NDA is NDA'd m
ARF - best answer ever. Still answered the question though. Thanks. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10463
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:32:00 -
[1713] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:CCP always deleted threads that showed GM communication. Or force-deleted bios that included links to GM communication.
Yes, because they do not want their double standards and inconsistent enforcement being put under the spotlight. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1212
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:33:00 -
[1714] - Quote
Ryann Padecain wrote:Last night I was ransomed and was asked to go on Teamspeak to sing a song, I felt publicly humiliated and have cried for hours and hours. I would like a response from CCP to see what I could do in these circumstances, they have the recordings and are threatening me to release them to the EVE public, is this bannable?
Sarcasm Detected
If not sarcasm --->
Grow a pair of balls and self destruct, if you cant win there are ways of denying your opponent victory. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3145
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:33:00 -
[1715] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Jayem See wrote: Just a question - and very off topic. Once CSM member has moved on can they then discuss stuff like this or is it covered by NDA? I assume it would be (not to mention being bad form) but just wondered.
I am not joking, here. The NDA is NDA'd m Yo dog, I heard you like NDAs...
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2532
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:36:00 -
[1716] - Quote
Andski wrote:Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:CCP always deleted threads that showed GM communication. Or force-deleted bios that included links to GM communication. Yes, because they do not want their double standards and inconsistent enforcement being put under the spotlight.
Any idea when TMC is going to make a comment on this situation?
Sorry - I meant publish an article. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
672
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:40:00 -
[1717] - Quote
Kristalll wrote:... Yes, if I was the catalyst that caused someone to kill people, I'd feel a bit guilty. But if that catalyst is causing the person to lose internet spaceship in a game that is literally about losing, killing, and taking internet spaceships, how is that my FAULT?
What about when someone kills themselves because they went AFK and their mission navy raven died in a mission? Whose fault is it then?
This post has problems I can't begin to describe or explain without writing an essay I just don't have time to write. Admits to feeling a bit guilty if instigating a murder, asks about blame placement when someone lacks perspective. The difference is when you are involved you are responsible. A bit guilty huh? BRA. VO.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force The Kadeshi
258
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:40:00 -
[1718] - Quote
MajorBean wrote:With that ban our loved sandbox lost alot of sand, Erotica 1 you will be remembered.
Only the sand the cat shat on already |
Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:42:00 -
[1719] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Jayem See wrote:
That response was almost as late as the minutes! Good job!
I was out for a while in this thing called the real world. Over rated. Actually I am trying to get out of here but I have so much time invested I keep feeling like I am drawn back in involuntarily. m You should petition him for harassment. WTF did I just read? |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1212
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:55:00 -
[1720] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg
+1
Politicians eh. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2532
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:57:00 -
[1721] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg +1 Politicians eh.
-1
People with nothing to add eh. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 21:59:00 -
[1722] - Quote
Drone 16 wrote:Sig: It puts the peanutbutter on itself or it leaves the bonus round... - E1's greatest Hits Your sig made me LOL, but it also does sorta capture the vibe of those sessions.
Erotica's defenders keep deflecting and misdirecting, trying to take the focus off what so many of us have objected to from the get-go. The Bonus Round is set up to torment and humiliate its victims. No amount of HTFU would make me want to appear even close to the same side as a guy who uses a game to lure victims into a private chat room for hours of psychological torment.
Who's got time to hang around in Jita Local that long and then spend hours in TS with some guy singing off-key with steak and mayo in his mouth? Don't they have other stuff they could be doing in the game (not to mention RL) to make money and have fun?
I wonder how many of these Bonus Room "emergent gameplay" advocates have resorted to it because they have little aptitude for the actual game and are disinclined to improve their skills.
I seem to recall Ero saying the other night on the stream that he was unsuccessful at making ISK the normal way when he first started EVE, so he resorted to going from station to station begging, using a fake killmail and sob story to scam ISK. |
Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:01:00 -
[1723] - Quote
Seemed to work well for him. WTF did I just read? |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2533
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:11:00 -
[1724] - Quote
Tor Norman wrote:Seemed to work well for him.
Kinda depends on how you look at it. Given that with a little less unpleasantness he could have been running for CSM right now.
Maybe not. Certainly a skilled player though, just missed out by taking it too far. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:12:00 -
[1725] - Quote
Tor Norman wrote:Seemed to work well for him. I'd like to convince more of my coworkers and friends to try EVE, but if I had to answer the question of "Well, what do you DO in EVE?" with tales of begging in Jita and luring people to the glorious Bonus Round, not only would they not want to try the game but they'd also think I was not someone they want to be around.
I continue to be amazed that anyone's willing to defend the practice. |
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
91
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:12:00 -
[1726] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tell you what. Write up your questions, and address them to CCP directly. You are asking people who try to answer them, but are not actually in any position to do so. Hence, everything they answer, is just their opinion. Write em up and address them to CCP.
Nope.
If anything, this little episode (and the "walking in station" riots, and the Mittens witch-hunt after his drunken ramblings) has demonstrated that the only way to get any sort of answer/reaction from CCP is through rallying the masses to your cause.
.... which really really really makes sense when you think about the nature of the meta game. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:19:00 -
[1727] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Seemed to work well for him. I'd like to convince more of my coworkers and friends to try EVE, but if I had to answer the question of "Well, what do you DO in EVE?" with tales of begging in Jita and luring people to the glorious Bonus Round, not only would they not want to try the game but they'd also think I was not someone they want to be around. I continue to be amazed that anyone's willing to defend the practice.
There are plenty of basement dwelling social misfits and closet sociopaths who will defend it.
|
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2533
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:25:00 -
[1728] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Seemed to work well for him. I'd like to convince more of my coworkers and friends to try EVE, but if I had to answer the question of "Well, what do you DO in EVE?" with tales of begging in Jita and luring people to the glorious Bonus Round, not only would they not want to try the game but they'd also think I was not someone they want to be around. I continue to be amazed that anyone's willing to defend the practice. There are plenty of basement dwelling social misfits and closet sociopaths who will defend it.
There are also so many groups of people who don't play that way that I would encourage anyone to try it. It is what you make it. When I go to Jita I shut my local window when in station (apart from a couple of minutes to work out the latest scams)
Most of my game involves none of this stuff - it's just spaceships and explosions. Don't be too sensitive about it - in context don't take it too far either. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4714
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:27:00 -
[1729] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I did not call anyone stupid
I, for one, wouldn't hold it against you if you did.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:32:00 -
[1730] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:There are also so many groups of people who don't play that way that I would encourage anyone to try it. It is what you make it. When I go to Jita I shut my local window when in station (apart from a couple of minutes to work out the latest scams)
Most of my game involves none of this stuff - it's just spaceships and explosions. Don't be too sensitive about it - in context don't take it too far either. Yeah, the corps and alliances I've been involved with are the reason I continue to play. If I were going to make a more serious effort to recruit coworkers, I'd make a point of hosting sessions where they could ask for help and we could all do cool stuff together. The new player experience still leaves much to be desired, particularly if you don't know anybody else who plays.
|
|
voetius
BITB Support Services
209
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:39:00 -
[1731] - Quote
I have to admit that now the question has been asked it's a bit puzzling why there has been no article on TMC.
I find it a bit hard to credit that they think the goat simulator is more important, even if it has a certain novelty value. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
38
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:42:00 -
[1732] - Quote
voetius wrote:I have to admit that now the question has been asked it's a bit puzzling why there has been no article on TMC.
I find it a bit hard to credit that they think the goat simulator is more important, even if it has a certain novelty value. Maybe they'd be late enough getting in on it that they don't want to be seen as riding others' coattails? Or as being second fiddle to Ripard?
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4714
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:44:00 -
[1733] - Quote
voetius wrote: I have to admit that now the question has been asked it's a bit puzzling why there has been no article on TMC.
I find it a bit hard to credit that they think the goat simulator is more important, even if it has a certain novelty value.
It's TMC. They're still holding their collective finger to the wind before they figure out the slant to put on it. They have to stay popular, you know.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2533
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:44:00 -
[1734] - Quote
voetius wrote: I have to admit that now the question has been asked it's a bit puzzling why there has been no article on TMC.
I find it a bit hard to credit that they think the goat simulator is more important, even if it has a certain novelty value.
I want that goat simulator. That video was outstanding. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Percy UK
Ironforge Commerce Guild
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:47:00 -
[1735] - Quote
Thanks for the update and keep up the good work. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2536
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 22:58:00 -
[1736] - Quote
True to my word I have asked the questions posed to me by Lucas earlier. Well - to be honest I asked the one that mattered regarding the TOS/EULA.
He didn't want to out of principle. I tried to be as balanced as possible. Aaaaaaand relax. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
751
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 23:09:00 -
[1737] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Jayem See wrote:
That response was almost as late as the minutes! Good job!
I was out for a while in this thing called the real world. Over rated. Actually I am trying to get out of here but I have so much time invested I keep feeling like I am drawn back in involuntarily. m
Come on why do you have a RL?? I want you to only have a life in game so when I destroy your ship you're reduced to tears as I destroyed everything that meant anything to you! |
Katkon Darnok
The Scope Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 23:18:00 -
[1738] - Quote
I've read the announcement from CCP and feel much like I do after listening to a presidential speech: some obviously "right" things were said, but I have literally no idea what actions, if any, are behind the words. So in the very specific case involving 2 players, I can't speak to the outcome. The announcement feels like a total non-event to me. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 00:00:00 -
[1739] - Quote
Are a lot of messages getting deleted or something? I've been an EVE player for a couple of years, but this is my first full week actually posting on the forums. |
Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 00:05:00 -
[1740] - Quote
Yup. Posts are definiately going bye-bye. Must be some trolls getting cleaned up. WTF did I just read? |
|
H aVo K
Tycheon Industries Northern Associates.
91
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 00:08:00 -
[1741] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Are a lot of messages getting deleted or something? I've been an EVE player for a couple of years, but this is my first full week actually posting on the forums.
Yup... I was on page 85, went to another site for an hour, and then clicked "back" ... only to find out that nearly 3 pages worth of posts had gone poof. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4719
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 00:17:00 -
[1742] - Quote
Tor Norman wrote:Yup. Posts are definiately going bye-bye.
Damn! Some of my finest work was in here. Ah well... easy come, easy go.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1062
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 01:11:00 -
[1743] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1212
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:06:00 -
[1744] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I do partly agree, but when a person loses their temper they lose their inhibitions too revealing the real them False. When someone, anyone, loses their temper, they behave in a manner that is not the "real" them. Or are you trying to claim that everyone who is not in a state of losing their temper, is not the real them? DERP! Are you not real until you are angry?
When people are calm and collected they exhibit more self control and behave in socially acceptable ways, when they lose that self control and rage out that's the point at which everything they say is true or designed to intimidate or coerce. The fact that someone uses racist language in temper in an attempt to coerce the other persons into capitulating to their demands proves that they are racist and hold racist views, otherwise they wouldn't use them.
This is what I mean when i say that you get to see the real person when they lose their temper, you see the ugly side of them that they normally hide in everyday life. It might be ugly but it's still a side of them. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1212
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:09:00 -
[1745] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:Are a lot of messages getting deleted or something? I've been an EVE player for a couple of years, but this is my first full week actually posting on the forums. Yup... I was on page 85, went to another site for an hour, and then clicked "back" ... only to find out that nearly 3 pages worth of posts had gone poof.
Whole threads have gone missing today. I have no opinion on the merits of those moderation decisions however, just pointing it out for the record. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1212
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:10:00 -
[1746] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:What I find most vile in all of this is Ripard Tegs underhanded approach to it all.
If you don't like Erotica1 and what she did, fair enough. But to abuse his privileged position to push for an individual user to be banned, and then to write a highly inflammatory piece - one which resorts to hysterics and evocations of literal torture - and spreading it around news media when CCP didn't agree with him... that's just revolting on so many levels.
ban ripard teg +1 Politicians eh. -1 People with nothing to add eh.
Lol eh +2 Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Winchester Steele
663
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:46:00 -
[1747] - Quote
I don't know about all this harassment nonsense, but I will say unequivocally that Ripard Teg should be banned for his part in this. For a CSM to purposely incite a witch hunt against another player by using loaded and slanderous terminology in a highly polemical blog is unacceptable and morally reprehensible.
I am shocked and dismayed that CCP has let this person so aggressively promote their own personal agenda, even to their own detriment.
I am also disappointed that CCP has such a double standard whereby a CSM member is able to write a venomous, libelous blog that literally resulted in another player receiving death threats and harassment and receives no punishment, while this player, who broke NO rules and was operating on a third party program gets permanently banned.
I thought the CSM were supposed to represent the community? Ripard knew the damage he would cause, not only to CCP, but to the victim of his hate filled, slanderous blog post. Should our CSM not be held to a higher standard?
If Ripard had a problem with Erotica 1 he should have done what every other player in this game must do: file a petition.
This isn't about whether or not you found Erotica 1 or the bonus room distasteful. This is about consistency and fair application of policy from CCP, whether the player has a CSM tag or no.
Ban Ripard Teg! ... |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4732
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:49:00 -
[1748] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I do partly agree, but when a person loses their temper they lose their inhibitions too revealing the real them False. When someone, anyone, loses their temper, they behave in a manner that is not the "real" them. Or are you trying to claim that everyone who is not in a state of losing their temper, is not the real them? DERP! Are you not real until you are angry? When people are calm and collected they exhibit more self control and behave in socially acceptable ways, when they lose that self control and rage out that's the point at which everything they say is true or designed to intimidate or coerce. The fact that someone uses racist language in temper in an attempt to coerce the other persons into capitulating to their demands proves that they are racist and hold racist views, otherwise they wouldn't use them. This is what I mean when i say that you get to see the real person when they lose their temper, you see the ugly side of them that they normally hide in everyday life. It might be ugly but it's still a side of them.
When I lose it I might smash your head into the ground until you need to be hospitalized, but I would never use a racial or sexist slur while I was doing it.
Strange but true.
We are a really ****** up species.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
676
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 03:38:00 -
[1749] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:I...
This isn't about whether or not you found Erotica 1 or the bonus room distasteful. This is about consistency and fair application of policy from CCP, whether the player has a CSM tag or no.
Nope, CCP don't have to be consistent or fair or just or moral or ethical or even right, they can do what they want in this. This is their call and they can change the rules to suit their business. I remember Helicity Boson saying to CCP "I'm gonna come down on you like a ton of bricks if..."FWOOP gone. That's how it should be, any consistency or pressure to be so could be gamed to their detriment.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
61
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 04:09:00 -
[1750] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Danalee wrote:I'll try again: We all know shadoo's outburst. He humiliated a player and called him among other things a ******. IF at that time a CSM would have had an axe to grind and blogged about it you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have no problems finding a couple dozen forum trolls to start a threadnaught. What I know now from what is happened is that CCP would have banned him. Rightly so, the video even has ingame footage, no doubt it happened in EVE online, not on some teamspeak server where they have no control over. Or do you think they wouldn't have? D. Straws. You are grasping at.
Grasping at what straws? Was that guy banned or not? And if not why?
|
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
61
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 04:15:00 -
[1751] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:Are a lot of messages getting deleted or something? I've been an EVE player for a couple of years, but this is my first full week actually posting on the forums. First, welcome to the forum Second, yes: I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil! The rules:4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
Lets be serious though, you could nuke this entire thread and the whole threadnaut for trolling and personal attacks. Just saying...
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2051
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 04:37:00 -
[1752] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:So let me get this straight, a very famous EvE Online blogger that's also a member of the CSM used his influence and power to start a witch-hunt on another player, for something that happened outside of the game that he condemns. In is moral high ground blog he harassed and persecuted the player, until a shitstorm thread started on the EvE Online forums, where he continued the witchcraft trial. The thread was closed and the player got banned.
This makes total sense to me... I prefer to think of it as he made the player base aware of what a raging psychopath was up to in the game we all play. But sure, if you prefer the term witch hunt, then whatever. Mr Epeen The player base was well aware of this situation before hand, there werere threads about it before. And remember, the "victim" of this particular case stated clearly that he didn't think E1 should be banned and that he was well aware it was his choices and his words, and that he'd just lost his temper at the time. So yes, witch hunt. Teg has some kind of stick up his ass about E1 and decided to take out his personal issues on hi. He should be dropped from the CSM. A CSM hold an awful lot of power, since so many people will blindly support him in whatever he says just because he's a CSM so they feel that's what they are supposed to do. Picking up a personal vendetta against a player is unfair and he should be responsible by addressing issues in private with CCP if he has them. Given I wasn't going to vote for CSM because I thought they were all useless and now I'd gladly vote for Teg I think you're incorrect. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Onyx Nyx
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
618
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 04:52:00 -
[1753] - Quote
I have been told truly terrible things in local whenever I have been flying a falcon or something else that attracts rage. The unkind words directed at me has caused me great distress, tears, nightmares, sleep deprivation and even thoughts of suicide.
With this official statement from CCP, can I fully expect CCP to punish these evildoers? Because I am about to go test that in practice by ganking some miner and see much they care about the rules of society afterwards. I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4220
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 05:09:00 -
[1754] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:I don't know about all this harassment nonsense, but I will say unequivocally that Ripard Teg should be banned for his part in this. For a CSM to purposely incite a witch hunt against another player by using loaded and slanderous terminology in a highly polemical blog is unacceptable and morally reprehensible.
I am shocked and dismayed that CCP has let this person so aggressively promote their own personal agenda, even to their own detriment.
I am also disappointed that CCP has such a double standard whereby a CSM member is able to write a venomous, libelous blog that literally resulted in another player receiving death threats and harassment and receives no punishment, while this player, who broke NO rules and was operating on a third party program gets permanently banned.
I thought the CSM were supposed to represent the community? Ripard knew the damage he would cause, not only to CCP, but to the victim of his hate filled, slanderous blog post. Should our CSM not be held to a higher standard?
If Ripard had a problem with Erotica 1 he should have done what every other player in this game must do: file a petition.
This isn't about whether or not you found Erotica 1 or the bonus room distasteful. This is about consistency and fair application of policy from CCP, whether the player has a CSM tag or no.
Ban Ripard Teg!
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9355
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 05:16:00 -
[1755] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Yup. Posts are definiately going bye-bye. Damn! Some of my finest work was in here. Ah well... easy come, easy go. Mr Epeen Your posts should still be on eve-search. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4738
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 05:18:00 -
[1756] - Quote
Onyx Nyx wrote:I have been told truly terrible things in local whenever I have been flying a falcon or something else that attracts rage. The unkind words directed at me has caused me great distress, tears, nightmares, sleep deprivation and even thoughts of suicide.
With this official statement from CCP, can I fully expect CCP to punish these evildoers? Because I am about to go test that in practice by ganking some miner and see much they care about the rules of society afterwards.
Well you might get banned for stupidity because look at your sig. Whining like a ***** when you have that sig just puts you first in line at the ban wagon.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Tweek Etimua
The Paragons
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 05:31:00 -
[1757] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Jayem See wrote:Danalee wrote:I'll try again: We all know shadoo's outburst. He humiliated a player and called him among other things a ******. IF at that time a CSM would have had an axe to grind and blogged about it you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have no problems finding a couple dozen forum trolls to start a threadnaught. What I know now from what is happened is that CCP would have banned him. Rightly so, the video even has ingame footage, no doubt it happened in EVE online, not on some teamspeak server where they have no control over. Or do you think they wouldn't have? D. Straws. You are grasping at. Grasping at what straws? Was that guy banned or not? And if not why?
Lol oh no Shadoo was not banned. In fact for the most people realy like shadoo and thought the outburst was hilariouse. You should youtube it. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
385
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 05:36:00 -
[1758] - Quote
Oh this thread is still a thing. That's too bad.
To repeat, the skill split is scheduled for the big Summer 2013 expansion. ~CCP Fozzie |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3254
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:02:00 -
[1759] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Onyx Nyx wrote:I have been told truly terrible things in local whenever I have been flying a falcon or something else that attracts rage. The unkind words directed at me has caused me great distress, tears, nightmares, sleep deprivation and even thoughts of suicide.
With this official statement from CCP, can I fully expect CCP to punish these evildoers? Because I am about to go test that in practice by ganking some miner and see much they care about the rules of society afterwards. Well you might get banned for stupidity because look at your sig. Whining like a ***** when you have that sig just puts you first in line at the ban wagon. Mr Epeen
You used to be cool, man. What happened? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Onyx Nyx
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
618
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:03:00 -
[1760] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Onyx Nyx wrote:I have been told truly terrible things in local whenever I have been flying a falcon or something else that attracts rage. The unkind words directed at me has caused me great distress, tears, nightmares, sleep deprivation and even thoughts of suicide.
With this official statement from CCP, can I fully expect CCP to punish these evildoers? Because I am about to go test that in practice by ganking some miner and see much they care about the rules of society afterwards. Well you might get banned for stupidity because look at your sig. Whining like a ***** when you have that sig just puts you first in line at the ban wagon. Mr Epeen
Good point! Fixed it and it is from a song, and is about a character in the LFG web comic.
Link for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcbazH6aE2g I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.
- Richard (http://www.lfgcomic.com/) |
|
Onyx Nyx
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
618
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:07:00 -
[1761] - Quote
double post... hotel wifi \o/ I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.
- Richard (http://www.lfgcomic.com/) |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1055
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:30:00 -
[1762] - Quote
Although CCP clarified their stance on this, the only place that I've actually seen mention that Erotica 1 was banned was on Minerbumping. (If I am missing any additional published info then point me to it please) And there, they said they were informed by Erotica 1. :P
April 1st is coming soon, as mentioned elsewhere.
I am also assuming that Erotica 2 is not the same individual.
Please note that I have no preferences in this entire situation towards either side of the argument, and am only really following it because its far better than any of the crap on TV now days. I am just curious to see how it all pans out at this point. |
Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:50:00 -
[1763] - Quote
I'd be interested to know if E1 was ever warned about his activities before being banned. WTF did I just read? |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1056
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:52:00 -
[1764] - Quote
Tor Norman wrote:I'd be interested to know if E1 was ever warned about his activities before being banned.
If he was in fact banned, I also was wondering about that part. |
Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
93
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:59:00 -
[1765] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Tor Norman wrote:I'd be interested to know if E1 was ever warned about his activities before being banned. If he was in fact banned, I also was wondering about that part. Would be quite funny if E1 wasn't and was just trolling us. WTF did I just read? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
455
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 07:24:00 -
[1766] - Quote
Onyx Nyx wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Onyx Nyx wrote:I have been told truly terrible things in local whenever I have been flying a falcon or something else that attracts rage. The unkind words directed at me has caused me great distress, tears, nightmares, sleep deprivation and even thoughts of suicide.
With this official statement from CCP, can I fully expect CCP to punish these evildoers? Because I am about to go test that in practice by ganking some miner and see much they care about the rules of society afterwards. Well you might get banned for stupidity because look at your sig. Whining like a ***** when you have that sig just puts you first in line at the ban wagon. Mr Epeen Good point! Fixed it and it is from a song, and is about a character in the LFG web comic. Link for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcbazH6aE2g
Richard rules! http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
177
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 08:10:00 -
[1767] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Seemed to work well for him. I'd like to convince more of my coworkers and friends to try EVE, but if I had to answer the question of "Well, what do you DO in EVE?" with tales of begging in Jita and luring people to the glorious Bonus Round, not only would they not want to try the game but they'd also think I was not someone they want to be around. I continue to be amazed that anyone's willing to defend the practice. There are plenty of basement dwelling social misfits and closet sociopaths who will defend it.
Life is filled with all kinds of people, some bad and some good. So do you stay in your house all day afraid to go outside? Eve is more simulation than game and a reflection of what would happen if you put people in the environment that pod pilots are in. Think "Lord of the Flys". Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Goa Chai
18
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 08:27:00 -
[1768] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Life is filled with all kinds of people, some bad and some good. So do you stay in your house all day afraid to go outside? Eve is more simulation than game and a reflection of what would happen if you put people in the environment that pod pilots are in. Think "Lord of the Flys".
So.... who wants to be Piggy? |
Salvos Rhoska
914
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 08:27:00 -
[1769] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:This is what I mean when i say that you get to see the real person when they lose their temper, you see the ugly side of them that they normally hide in everyday life. It might be ugly but it's still a side of them.
Then everything you are saying now does not represent your real view, or you, because you are not saying it in a state of having lost your temper.
Or, are you mad right now? ------------ |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
177
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 08:34:00 -
[1770] - Quote
Goa Chai wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Life is filled with all kinds of people, some bad and some good. So do you stay in your house all day afraid to go outside? Eve is more simulation than game and a reflection of what would happen if you put people in the environment that pod pilots are in. Think "Lord of the Flys". So.... who wants to be PIggy?
Piggy saw the world not as it was but how he wanted it to be, so I'd guess that most of the high sec Care Bears could play the part... Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
|
Salvos Rhoska
914
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 08:35:00 -
[1771] - Quote
Tor Norman wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Tor Norman wrote:I'd be interested to know if E1 was ever warned about his activities before being banned. If he was in fact banned, I also was wondering about that part. Would be quite funny if E1 wasn't and was just trolling us.
Its entirely possible. And if I was Erotica1, that is what I would have done. Faked my own banning, because I know CCP will not evidence it either way.
Hes already facilitated transfer of his assets to associates, and is on record as having said he has 50 alts on 23 accounts, iirc.
Nor do I have an issue with anynof the above. For all intents as long as the entity that was/is Erotica1 no longer operates in the game, and this statement in OP was made by CCP, the result is the same whether he was banned or not.
If he re-enters the game on an alias, that is not my problem. ------------ |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1213
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:15:00 -
[1772] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I do partly agree, but when a person loses their temper they lose their inhibitions too revealing the real them False. When someone, anyone, loses their temper, they behave in a manner that is not the "real" them. Or are you trying to claim that everyone who is not in a state of losing their temper, is not the real them? DERP! Are you not real until you are angry? When people are calm and collected they exhibit more self control and behave in socially acceptable ways, when they lose that self control and rage out that's the point at which everything they say is true or designed to intimidate or coerce. The fact that someone uses racist language in temper in an attempt to coerce the other persons into capitulating to their demands proves that they are racist and hold racist views, otherwise they wouldn't use them. This is what I mean when i say that you get to see the real person when they lose their temper, you see the ugly side of them that they normally hide in everyday life. It might be ugly but it's still a side of them. When I lose it I might smash your head into the ground until you need to be hospitalized, but I would never use a racial or sexist slur while I was doing it. Strange but true. We are a really ****** up species. Mr Epeen
agreed, but you are clearly not racist, and as such, fun to be with.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
811
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:15:00 -
[1773] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Jayem See wrote:Danalee wrote:I'll try again: We all know shadoo's outburst. He humiliated a player and called him among other things a ******. IF at that time a CSM would have had an axe to grind and blogged about it you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have no problems finding a couple dozen forum trolls to start a threadnaught. What I know now from what is happened is that CCP would have banned him. Rightly so, the video even has ingame footage, no doubt it happened in EVE online, not on some teamspeak server where they have no control over. Or do you think they wouldn't have? Straws. You are grasping at. Grasping at what straws? Was that guy banned or not? And if not why?
I'm pretty sure I saw him commentating on an official EVE tournament. That's what they do with everyone who calls people ******** ingame. Oh wait.
D.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2777
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:21:00 -
[1774] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
agreed, but you are clearly not racist, and as such, fun to be with.
This just made me think of Mr Epeen as a Sirius Cybernetics Corporation android
"Your non-racist friend whose fun to be with!" *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1213
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:23:00 -
[1775] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:This is what I mean when i say that you get to see the real person when they lose their temper, you see the ugly side of them that they normally hide in everyday life. It might be ugly but it's still a side of them. Then everything you are saying now does not represent your real view, or you, because you are not saying it in a state of having lost your temper. Or, are you mad right now?
We're getting into philosophical musings now friend, read my posts that's not what I am saying at all. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2966
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:37:00 -
[1776] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Given I wasn't going to vote for CSM because I thought they were all useless and now I'd gladly vote for Teg I think you're incorrect. Oh wow, 1 whole vote? Amazing. He's a shoe in.
I'm glad to see though that you think it's OK for a CSM member to take a personal hate campaign against a single player. One day maybe you'll do something he doesn't like and he'll get you banned by public demand eh? Just because you hate Erotica 1's behaviour (which I would also condemn btw) doesn't give an officially appointed representative the right to abuse the power of his position. It's absolutely disgusting. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
914
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:38:00 -
[1777] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:read my posts that's not what I am saying at all.
That would depend on whether you are currently mad or not, according to your own posited logic and reasoning. ------------ |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1213
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:48:00 -
[1778] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:read my posts that's not what I am saying at all. That would depend on whether you are currently mad or not, according to your own posited logic and reasoning.
You are up early, or have you escaped from your master's laboratory? Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Seven Koskanaiken
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
1110
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:49:00 -
[1779] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Although CCP clarified their stance on this, the only place that I've actually seen mention that Erotica 1 was banned was on Minerbumping. (If I am missing any additional published info then point me to it please) And there, they said they were informed by Erotica 1. :P
April 1st is coming soon, as mentioned elsewhere.
I am also assuming that Erotica 2 is not the same individual.
Please note that I have no preferences in this entire situation towards either side of the argument, and am only really following it because its far better than any of the crap on TV now days. Quite curious to see how it all pans out at this point.
Speaking of TV, this is going to make a great episode for the EVE TV show. I think Oliver Stone would make a fine guest director for The Rise and Fall of Erotica 1. |
Salvos Rhoska
914
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:50:00 -
[1780] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:You are up early, or have you escaped from your master's laboratory?
Are you saying that in anger? ------------ |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2779
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:03:00 -
[1781] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Faked my own banning
by driving a Rifter into the sun with a dummy tied to the control console *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2779
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:04:00 -
[1782] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Think "Lord of the Flys".
Sounds Welsh *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1216
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:10:00 -
[1783] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:You are up early, or have you escaped from your master's laboratory? Are you saying that in anger?
No lol, in RL I am a buddist monk who never gets angry or upset, I spend the bulk of my day in meditation and doing chores for the good of the soul. Then I play eve and bring the beauty of karma to the sandbox.
It's a wonderful life, no unhappiness or anger at all.
I'm off to make a picture house for the dalai llama. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2782
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:14:00 -
[1784] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
No lol, in RL I am a buddist monk who never gets angry or upset, I spend the bulk of my day in meditation and doing chores for the good of the soul. Then I play eve and bring the beauty of karma to the sandbox.
It's a wonderful life, no unhappiness or anger at all.
I'm off to make a picture house for the dalai llama.
By comparison, I live in a constant state of rage, held in check only by my abnormally large and completely depraved sex-drive. I play EvE to punish the universe for spawning me.
It's a wonderful life with no twee bunnies or love songs or weddings to get in the way of the debaunched pain-mongering.
But I dont support a theocratic git who wants to take his miserable third world country back to the middle ages
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1404
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:15:00 -
[1785] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Bael Malefic wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Seemed to work well for him. I'd like to convince more of my coworkers and friends to try EVE, but if I had to answer the question of "Well, what do you DO in EVE?" with tales of begging in Jita and luring people to the glorious Bonus Round, not only would they not want to try the game but they'd also think I was not someone they want to be around. I continue to be amazed that anyone's willing to defend the practice. There are plenty of basement dwelling social misfits and closet sociopaths who will defend it. Life is filled with all kinds of people, some bad and some good. So do you stay in your house all day afraid to go outside? Eve is more simulation than game and a reflection of what would happen if you put people in the environment that pod pilots are in. Think "Lord of the Flys". Life is filled with accidents too. Would you like to have your ship destroyed "just by accident" or "because of some technical defect in electronic systems"? Or outpost with all your stuff blew away "just because of hit by some occasional asteroid"? The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Salvos Rhoska
915
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:19:00 -
[1786] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote: I am a buddist monk
Buddist you say?
So you smoke a lot of weed then? ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2782
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:20:00 -
[1787] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: I am a buddist monk Buddist you say?
BUDDHIST *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Salvos Rhoska
915
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:30:00 -
[1788] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:BUDDHIST Think you accidentally posted on wrong alt there, ma'am. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2782
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:30:00 -
[1789] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:BUDDHIST Think you accidentally posted on wrong alt there, ma'am.
How so? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Gerald Mardiska
Up2-NoGood Intrepid Crossing
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 12:26:00 -
[1790] - Quote
this could be talked about for ever ok. however scams are scams and the "victim"should have realised that it was a scam. therefore he choose to give erotica1 his isk and assets in game, but he should have known in the first place it was a scam. i mean think about it, yes it was a lil much on erotica1's part from what i understand. but really its the "victims" fault for allowing himself to be scammed. he should have been more aware and less gullible. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
915
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 12:32:00 -
[1791] - Quote
Gerald Mardiska wrote:therefore he choose to give erotica1 his isk and assets in game The Bonus Room only begins after the victim has given over all his assets. This was never about anyone giving him their assets, its about what was done after that. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2784
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 12:38:00 -
[1792] - Quote
All: God save your majesty!
Cade: I thank you, good peopleGÇöthere shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score, and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.
Dic k: The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
Cade: Nay, that I mean to do.
Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71GÇô78 *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1788
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 12:46:00 -
[1793] - Quote
Gerald Mardiska wrote:this could be talked about for ever ok. however scams are scams and the "victim"should have realised that it was a scam. therefore he choose to give erotica1 his isk and assets in game, but he should have known in the first place it was a scam. i mean think about it, yes it was a lil much on erotica1's part from what i understand. but really its the "victims" fault for allowing himself to be scammed. he should have been more aware and less gullible.
It's the 21st Century friend! Personal responsibility and adults with mature minds is so 17th. Everyone must be coddled from cradle to grave. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1218
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 12:54:00 -
[1794] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
No lol, in RL I am a buddist monk who never gets angry or upset, I spend the bulk of my day in meditation and doing chores for the good of the soul. Then I play eve and bring the beauty of karma to the sandbox.
It's a wonderful life, no unhappiness or anger at all.
I'm off to make a picture house for the dalai llama.
By comparison, I live in a constant state of rage, held in check only by my abnormally large and completely depraved sex-drive. I play EvE to punish the universe for spawning me. It's a wonderful life with no twee bunnies or love songs or weddings to get in the way of the debauched pain-mongering. But I dont support a theocratic git who wants to take his miserable third world country back to the middle ages
I wish I had your life, it's more interesting than mine... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Gerald Mardiska
Up2-NoGood Intrepid Crossing
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 12:54:00 -
[1795] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Gerald Mardiska wrote:therefore he choose to give erotica1 his isk and assets in game The Bonus Room only begins after the victim has given over all his assets. This was never about anyone giving him their assets, its about what was done after that.
my point is the "victim" chose to do this when he should have known it was a scam. its his fault. |
Salvos Rhoska
917
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 12:57:00 -
[1796] - Quote
Gerald Mardiska wrote:my point is the "victim" chose to do this when he should have known it was a scam. its his fault. The perpetrators chose to do this despite there being no further profit in it. That is their fault. The scam was completed at the point that they had all his assets. Everything after that is superfluous to that fact. ------------ |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1790
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 12:57:00 -
[1797] - Quote
Gerald Mardiska wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Gerald Mardiska wrote:therefore he choose to give erotica1 his isk and assets in game The Bonus Room only begins after the victim has given over all his assets. This was never about anyone giving him their assets, its about what was done after that. my point is the "victim" chose to do this when he should have known it was a scam. its his fault.
No, no you're all wrong. Personal responsibility is not allowed. You should be happy that a CSM came down from the mountain with his 10 commandments and will deliver you from evil. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1218
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:00:00 -
[1798] - Quote
Gerald Mardiska wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Gerald Mardiska wrote:therefore he choose to give erotica1 his isk and assets in game The Bonus Room only begins after the victim has given over all his assets. This was never about anyone giving him their assets, its about what was done after that. my point is the "victim" chose to do this when he should have known it was a scam. its his fault.
Exactly,
Personal responsibility for your own actions is a big part of the game and a big part of real life too. No one forced Sokhar into the bonus room, no one held a gun to his head, he could have left at any time to avoid further losses. He was motivated by greed for the next big chunk of Isk and is personally responsible for his actions in the bonus room, just like Erotica and his cohorts are personally responsible for their actions.
The only difference between the two is that Erotica has been punished and Sokhar has not. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2786
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:01:00 -
[1799] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Gerald Mardiska wrote:my point is the "victim" chose to do this when he should have known it was a scam. its his fault. The perpetrators chose to do this despite there being no further profit in it. That is their fault. The scam was completed at the point that they had all his assets. Everything after that is superfluous to that fact.
Falcon's clarfication stated that they should have stopped just after he went mental, not before he entered the Boners Room
Just sayin' *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110645
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:07:00 -
[1800] - Quote
The horse being beaten does not even have a skeleton anymore.
Geez........ "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2786
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:11:00 -
[1801] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:The horse being beaten does not even have a skeleton anymore.
Geez........
I think someone placed the horse on a sizable rock of Crokite and announced it in the mining thread *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Gerald Mardiska
Up2-NoGood Intrepid Crossing
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:13:00 -
[1802] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Gerald Mardiska wrote:my point is the "victim" chose to do this when he should have known it was a scam. its his fault. The perpetrators chose to do this despite there being no further profit in it. That is their fault. The scam was completed at the point that they had all his assets. Everything after that is superfluous to that fact. Falcon's clarfication stated that they should have stopped just after he went mental, not before he entered the Boners Room Just sayin'
granted they should have stopped before he went mental, but clearly that wasnt there plan. if im correct they wanted to break him emotionally. is it wrong... yes it was unnecessary. but the "victim" is still at fault because he chose to participate in the scam and got scammed. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
677
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:18:00 -
[1803] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:...
Personal responsibility for your own actions is a big part of the game and a big part of real life too.... The only difference between the two is that Erotica has been punished and Sokhar has not.
Personal responsibility is for poor and weak people, anyone with any real wisdom knows that the rich and powerful avoid personal responsibility easily. There are more differences between Ero1 and Sokhar than that one was punished and one was not. Way more.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1790
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:19:00 -
[1804] - Quote
Gerald Mardiska wrote: granted they should have stopped before he went mental, but clearly that wasnt there plan. if im correct they wanted to break him emotionally.
Did they? Was there any proof of this? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2786
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:20:00 -
[1805] - Quote
Gerald Mardiska wrote:
granted they should have stopped before he went mental, but clearly that wasnt there plan. if im correct they wanted to break him emotionally. is it wrong... yes it was unnecessary. but the "victim" is still at fault because he chose to participate in the scam and got scammed.
Agreed, but Falcon's statement doesnt say that. It says they shouldnt have continued after the mark went mental because CCP doesnt expect anyone to be responsible for when someone else chooses to lose their temper, but they are responsible for their actions AFTER the mark loses his temper and should have stopped there. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1791
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:28:00 -
[1806] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote: Agreed, but Falcon's statement doesnt say that. It says they shouldnt have continued after the mark went mental because CCP doesnt expect anyone to be responsible for when someone else chooses to lose their temper, but they are responsible for their actions AFTER the mark loses his temper and should have stopped there.
Bit like saying give someone lots of drugs, its all good and fun, but if you see him overdose then stop. Isn't it. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2787
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 13:30:00 -
[1807] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote: Agreed, but Falcon's statement doesnt say that. It says they shouldnt have continued after the mark went mental because CCP doesnt expect anyone to be responsible for when someone else chooses to lose their temper, but they are responsible for their actions AFTER the mark loses his temper and should have stopped there.
Bit like saying give someone lots of drugs, its all good and fun, but if you see him overdose then stop. Isn't it.
Its more like give someone a beating for being a ******* idiot, but stop before you actually kill them so you dont go to the chair.
But I like yours too and really must try that sometime. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Salvos Rhoska
918
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:00:00 -
[1808] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Gerald Mardiska wrote: granted they should have stopped before he went mental, but clearly that wasnt there plan. if im correct they wanted to break him emotionally.
Did they? Was there any proof of this?
Proof is in the fact, that that is how the perpetrators win the Bonus Room. If they can force the victim to leave, the perpetrators win. This is accomplished by subjecting the victim to arbitrary demands until, sooner or later, he either explodes in anger, or leaves. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2787
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:02:00 -
[1809] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Proof is in the fact, that that is how the perpetrators win the Bonus Room. If they can force the victim to leave, the perpetrators win. This is accomplished by subjecting the victim to arbitrary demands until, sooner or later, he either explodes in anger, or leaves.
So were they trying to make him leave, or trying to provoke a response?
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Salvos Rhoska
918
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:04:00 -
[1810] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: Proof is in the fact, that that is how the perpetrators win the Bonus Room. If they can force the victim to leave, the perpetrators win. This is accomplished by subjecting the victim to arbitrary demands until, sooner or later, he either explodes in anger, or leaves.
So were they trying to make him leave, or trying to provoke a response?
An angry response also disqualifies them from winning according to their "rules". That too is sufficient. And again, the mechanism to cause that, is subjecting the victim to abitrary demands, ad nauseum. ------------ |
|
Bloodmyst Ranwar
War Toys Inc
111
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:04:00 -
[1811] - Quote
It's interesting how the only people posting atm is the Erotica alts and fan boys. Maybe with the odd person chiming in having their say.
Guys, get over it. Erotica harassed, bullied, tortured someone (pick your word/flavour) and he was dealt with.
Time to move on........
P.S - I don't mind the whole miner ganking thing and their tears, but after all this I must say scammer tears are by far the most sweetest tears.... |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2787
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:08:00 -
[1812] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
An angry response also disqualifies them from winning according to their "rules". That too is sufficient. And again, the mechanism to cause that, is subjecting the victim to abitrary demands, ad nauseum.
Ok so either or both, thats fine, I agree
But by the rules as spelt out by Falcon, leaving wil lnot cause a ban, only continuing to engage the mark after the mark has lost his mind (not including asking to have his isk doubled in the first place) *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Salvos Rhoska
918
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:13:00 -
[1813] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Ok so either or both, thats fine, I agree
But by the rules as spelt out by Falcon, leaving wil lnot cause a ban, only continuing to engage the mark after the mark has lost his mind (not including asking to have his isk doubled in the first place)
To my reading of this and associated threads, that is just an interpretation of what CCP Falcon has said, by someone, that has then been repeated by others.
Chinese telephone.
He hasn't to my reading, actually said that.
If he has, I'd appreciate a link to where. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2788
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:24:00 -
[1814] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
He hasn't to my reading, actually said that.
If he has, I'd appreciate a link to where.
Bolded and iltalicised for clarity
"However, there's a line as to how severe those circumstances should get, and I'll paraphrase Mynxee by saying that this line needs to be drawn at the point where the alleged victim starts to lose emotional control. We can't set an arbirarty line for this, as this is different for everyone, and every situation. There must be a willingness by those involved to recognise when that point has been reached and realize, with positive community spirit in mind, that they should stop and honor that line with humaine and decent behaviour."
- CCP Falcon, post 378 in thread "CSM FEED BACK TO CCP" *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Salvos Rhoska
920
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:26:00 -
[1815] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
He hasn't to my reading, actually said that.
If he has, I'd appreciate a link to where.
Bolded and iltalicised for clarity "However, there's a line as to how severe those circumstances should get, and I'll paraphrase Mynxee by saying that this line needs to be drawn at the point where the alleged victim starts to lose emotional control. We can't set an arbirarty line for this, as this is different for everyone, and every situation. There must be a willingness by those involved to recognise when that point has been reached and realize, with positive community spirit in mind, that they should stop and honor that line with humaine and decent behaviour." - CCP Falcon, post 378 in thread "CSM FEED BACK TO CCP"
Ok. Thanks for the original wording. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2788
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:33:00 -
[1816] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
He hasn't to my reading, actually said that.
If he has, I'd appreciate a link to where.
Bolded and iltalicised for clarity "However, there's a line as to how severe those circumstances should get, and I'll paraphrase Mynxee by saying that this line needs to be drawn at the point where the alleged victim starts to lose emotional control. We can't set an arbirarty line for this, as this is different for everyone, and every situation. There must be a willingness by those involved to recognise when that point has been reached and realize, with positive community spirit in mind, that they should stop and honor that line with humaine and decent behaviour." - CCP Falcon, post 378 in thread "CSM FEED BACK TO CCP" Ok. Thanks for the original wording.
Not a problem, friend *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2145
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 14:57:00 -
[1817] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:Goa Chai wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Life is filled with all kinds of people, some bad and some good. So do you stay in your house all day afraid to go outside? Eve is more simulation than game and a reflection of what would happen if you put people in the environment that pod pilots are in. Think "Lord of the Flys". So.... who wants to be PIggy? Piggy saw the world not as it was but how he wanted it to be, so I'd guess that most of the high sec Care Bears could play the part...
Baltec 1, is that you? This is not a signature. |
Darkopus
State War Academy Caldari State
76
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 15:30:00 -
[1818] - Quote
Gerald Mardiska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Gerald Mardiska wrote:my point is the "victim" chose to do this when he should have known it was a scam. its his fault. The perpetrators chose to do this despite there being no further profit in it. That is their fault. The scam was completed at the point that they had all his assets. Everything after that is superfluous to that fact. Falcon's clarfication stated that they should have stopped just after he went mental, not before he entered the Boners Room Just sayin' granted they should have stopped before he went mental, but clearly that wasnt there plan. if im correct they wanted to break him emotionally. is it wrong... yes it was unnecessary. but the "victim" is still at fault because he chose to participate in the scam and got scammed.
No
the scam was long over before they got their mental masturbatory pleasure from the emotional breakage. To defend that by saying he got what he deserved is some of the stinkiest bullshit around. He deserved to get scammed out of his ISK and that's fine but the bullshit that happened afterwards was just for sadistic kicks by a deranged sicko. CCp would do weel to ensure these kinds of perverts are kept out of EVE altogether.
I have no problem with someone cutting it rough in game, blwoing all my **** up even smack talking in local, but taking it to the next step is a bullshit act of perverse sadism. The tears being wept by the enablers in here is priceless.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2800
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 15:32:00 -
[1819] - Quote
Darkopus wrote: perverse sadism.
You have no idea what this phrase means
You really dont *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1057
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 15:48:00 -
[1820] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Dorn Val wrote:Bael Malefic wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Seemed to work well for him. I'd like to convince more of my coworkers and friends to try EVE, but if I had to answer the question of "Well, what do you DO in EVE?" with tales of begging in Jita and luring people to the glorious Bonus Round, not only would they not want to try the game but they'd also think I was not someone they want to be around. I continue to be amazed that anyone's willing to defend the practice. There are plenty of basement dwelling social misfits and closet sociopaths who will defend it. Life is filled with all kinds of people, some bad and some good. So do you stay in your house all day afraid to go outside? Eve is more simulation than game and a reflection of what would happen if you put people in the environment that pod pilots are in. Think "Lord of the Flys". Life is filled with accidents too. Would you like to have your ship destroyed "just by accident" or "because of some technical defect in electronic systems"? Or outpost with all your stuff blew away "just because of hit by some occasional asteroid"?
LOL that would be awesome...
You are just flying around and ::NOTIFICATION : YOUR SHIPS O2 SUPPLY HAS MALFUNCTIONED, FLOODING YOUR CAPSULE WITH DEADLY CARBON MONOXIDE - YOU ARE DEAD::
|
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1794
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 15:48:00 -
[1821] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:[ but taking it to the next step is a bullshit act of perverse sadism
So ganking a mans 44bil ships is fine. Cool.
Marking him for a 60bil scam while pretending to help him is fine or next level? Not sure.
Then interviewing him for a public post so people can laugh at him is what? next step perverse sadism? http://themittani.com/features/alod-go-back-wow?page=0%2C1
Or is that Ok, kinda hard to tell, but considering the target was making some real life threats is pretty clear he was having an emotional breakdown, yet the public post went up anways and remains to this day. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Pew Terror
Green Associates TITANS.
207
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 16:05:00 -
[1822] - Quote
It's still amazing how many adult people in this thread have difficulties using common sense when it comes to human interaction. On the stream when ero and pets were asked where the line was the 2 answers were: "Only when it gets put on pictures/video" and "There is no line.". Obviously people like that need to be policed because they lack the brain function to decide thermselves.
Common sense people when dealing with other humans, its not THAT hard. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 16:06:00 -
[1823] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Darkopus wrote:[ but taking it to the next step is a bullshit act of perverse sadism
So ganking a mans 44bil ships is fine. Cool. Marking him for a 60bil scam while pretending to help him is fine or next level? Not sure. Then interviewing him for a public post so people can laugh at him is what? next step perverse sadism? http://themittani.com/features/alod-go-back-wow?page=0%2C1Or is that Ok, kinda hard to tell, but considering the target was making some real life threats is pretty clear he was having an emotional breakdown, yet the public post went up anways and remains to this day.
Hmmm, you might be onto something here...
I'm sure TMC will cover this with full impartiality, I know EN24 has!
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4752
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 16:46:00 -
[1824] - Quote
I just got back from my local park where I was enjoying watching the sheer innocent joy of children that can be truly excited to the core in the simple act of running around with no purpose. No anger. No hate. Just the simple pleasure of existing.
How do we go from that to what I see in this thread? People desperately trying to justify the actions of a sadistic psychopath. Even going so far as to express joy in listening to the recordings of, and the participating in, that twisted TS channel.
Like I said earlier. We are one ****** up species.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2812
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 16:51:00 -
[1825] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I just got back from my local park where I was enjoying watching the sheer innocent joy of children that can be truly excited to the core in the simple act of running around with no purpose. No anger. No hate. Just the simple pleasure of existing. How do we go from that to what I see in this thread? People desperately trying to justify the actions of a sadistic psychopath. Even going so far as to express joy in listening to the recordings of, and the participating in, that twisted TS channel. Like I said earlier. We are one ****** up species. Mr Epeen
Children are probably some of the most heartless sadistic creatures on this planet.
It follows then that innocence and sadism are not mutually exclusive.
But they can hate. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4754
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 16:58:00 -
[1826] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Children are probably some of the most heartless sadistic creatures on this planet.
I
I'm not going to get drawn into that discussion. I'll just say that I agree with that. Except...
The thing is, they don't do it out of malice. They do it out of curiosity. They don't know their boundaries. That's for us to guide them in. But what do we do? We teach them hate and racism and give them encouragement to lie about their dark side.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Salvos Rhoska
925
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 16:59:00 -
[1827] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Children are probably some of the most heartless sadistic creatures on this planet.
It follows then that innocence and sadism are not mutually exclusive.
But they can hate.
Understandable and acceptable in children, due to their stage of development. Not in adults. ------------ |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110653
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:01:00 -
[1828] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I just got back from my local park where I was enjoying watching the sheer innocent joy of children that can be truly excited to the core in the simple act of running around with no purpose. No anger. No hate. Just the simple pleasure of existing. How do we go from that to what I see in this thread? People desperately trying to justify the actions of a sadistic psychopath. Even going so far as to express joy in listening to the recordings of, and the participating in, that twisted TS channel. Like I said earlier. We are one ****** up species. Mr Epeen
It's because we idiotically gave the ignorant and socially malformed a broadcasting tool that lets them shout out to the entire world practically with almost complete anonymity. It used to be only by submitted and approved Op Ed letters and such, which mostly never saw the light of day (thankfully).
If all Tweets, Facebook Updates, and Forum postings were required to include a valid name and address, we would not even hear one thousandth of it at all.
Take away the guardians at the gate and anarchy takes over immediately.
"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2812
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:03:00 -
[1829] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:[I'm not going to get drawn into that discussion. I'll just say that I agree with that. Except... The thing is, they don't do it out of malice. They do it out of curiosity. They don't know their boundaries. That's for us to guide them in. But what do we do? We teach them hate and racism and give them encouragement to lie about their dark side. Mr Epeen
Hmm. I dunno.
I think you are underselling what creative little murderers they can be.
But yes, I am with you on not getting drawn into that. Its a bag of crack thats on fire with worms all over it in a blender with -ú500 in cash near the top
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Understandable and acceptable in children, due to their stage of development. Not in adults.
I could give an example (multiple) of why its not, but I wont because see reply to Mr Epeen on that one. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
399
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:06:00 -
[1830] - Quote
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode |
|
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3099
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:07:00 -
[1831] - Quote
Pew Terror wrote:the 2 answers were: "Only when it gets put on pictures/video" and "There is no line.". Obviously people like that need to be policed... Yes, it's obvious people who want to vilify themselves in a game that promotes being the villain have some serious problems. I think that's the part a lot of people don't understand. It's not even about sadism, it's just about being vilified by the community, because this used to be the game where you were allowed to do that. Now Eve is the game where you can be the villain, but if you're too good at it, you'll be banned. Oh god. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2813
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:10:00 -
[1832] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Pew Terror wrote:the 2 answers were: "Only when it gets put on pictures/video" and "There is no line.". Obviously people like that need to be policed... Yes, it's obvious people who want to vilify themselves in a game that promotes being the villain have some serious problems. I think that's the part a lot of people don't understand. It's not even about sadism, it's just about being vilified by the community, because this used to be the game where you were allowed to do that. Now Eve is the game where you can be the villain, but if you're too good at it, you'll be banned.
What if you are like me, a self-confessed sadist who only does consensual sadism in real life (or Out-Of-Game as its now known), but sticks to the rules as tightly as possible when performing my acts in game?
Am I going to be policed? Should I be afraid? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3099
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:12:00 -
[1833] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Pew Terror wrote:the 2 answers were: "Only when it gets put on pictures/video" and "There is no line.". Obviously people like that need to be policed... Yes, it's obvious people who want to vilify themselves in a game that promotes being the villain have some serious problems. I think that's the part a lot of people don't understand. It's not even about sadism, it's just about being vilified by the community, because this used to be the game where you were allowed to do that. Now Eve is the game where you can be the villain, but if you're too good at it, you'll be banned. What if you are like me, a self-confessed sadist who only does consensual sadism in real life (or Out-Of-Game as its now known), but sticks to the rules as tightly as possible when performing my acts in game? Am I going to be policed? Should I be afraid?
Yes. You're gonna get banned and doxxed.
Oh god. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2813
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:14:00 -
[1834] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
What if you are like me, a self-confessed sadist who only does consensual sadism in real life (or Out-Of-Game as its now known), but sticks to the rules as tightly as possible when performing my acts in game?
Am I going to be policed? Should I be afraid?
Yes. You're gonna get banned and doxxed.
I cant say I fear those things in all honesty. Ive had worse things happen to me. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Plug in Baby
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
179
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:15:00 -
[1835] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:but if you're too good at it, you'll be banned.
It's incredible how unprofessional CCP are when it comes to the community, they'll ban some players on whim completely inconsistently with any policy, then give massive advantages/gifts to others just because they like them, without out even bothing to pretend it was through some form of quantifiable reason.
Just look at reimbursement, the only important factor is who answers the petition, you'll see people getting SP and ships refunded even when there clearly wasn't a server issue, just because they like them / take pity. This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110655
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:43:00 -
[1836] - Quote
Plug in Baby wrote: Just look at reimbursement, the only important factor is who answers the petition, you'll see people getting SP and ships refunded even when there clearly wasn't a server issue, just because they like them / take pity.
Just how do you personally know that they "like them/take pity" ? Can we have access to this secret file, pretty please ??? "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1058
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 18:38:00 -
[1837] - Quote
I wish Curzon was around to write a song about all of this. :( |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
601
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 19:09:00 -
[1838] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Take away the guardians at the gate and anarchy takes over immediately.
That's not anarchy btw.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110662
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 19:16:00 -
[1839] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Take away the guardians at the gate and anarchy takes over immediately.
That's not anarchy btw.
Sorry, but something got lost in translation.
Besides: Anarchy - a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.
A situation of confusion and wild behavior in which the people in a country, group, organization, etc., are not controlled by rules or laws "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
604
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 19:26:00 -
[1840] - Quote
An - Archy. Without rulers.
Anarchy is simply self rule. It has nothing to do with a lack of order. Order emerges from social interaction. Like in Eve. There is no top down rule of how to make or run a corp, or even how to run that corp or play this game. The players self organize and do things.
"confusion" "wild behavior" is nonsense. Go into the countryside of whereever you live and observe people living largely without any top down guidance. Does it seem "wild"?
Go into any city on a friday night, and observe people in a space with a lot of rules and laws and enforcement. Does that seem "peaceful"?
Something to think about. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110662
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 19:36:00 -
[1841] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:An - Archy. Without rulers. Anarchy is simply self rule. It has nothing to do with a lack of order. Order emerges from social interaction. Like in Eve. There is no top down rule of how to make or run a corp, or even how to run that corp or play this game. The players self organize and do things. "confusion" "wild behavior" is nonsense. Go into the countryside of whereever you live and observe people living largely without any top down guidance. Does it seem "wild"? Go into any city on a friday night, and observe people in a space with a lot of rules and laws and enforcement. Does that seem "peaceful"? Something to think about.
No. It's absolutely nothing to think about.
Anarchy is not self rule. Nobody is in charge of anything.
If you are going to deny the dictionaries, I cannot converse with you.
Jesus.
"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110662
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 19:37:00 -
[1842] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote: "confusion" "wild behavior" is nonsense. Go into the countryside of whereever you live and observe people living largely without any top down guidance. Does it seem "wild"?
Obviously you have not been to the Rural American South. (See the film "Deliverance".)
ed: A Town Too Florida even for Florida "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1058
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 19:44:00 -
[1843] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote: "confusion" "wild behavior" is nonsense. Go into the countryside of whereever you live and observe people living largely without any top down guidance. Does it seem "wild"?
Obviously you have not been to the Rural American South. (See the film "Deliverance".) ed: A Town Too Florida even for Florida
LOL I got a ticket there before when I was driving down to see my parents in South Florida. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2146
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 19:51:00 -
[1844] - Quote
Folks it it time to do this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOT7OwcbK-k This is not a signature. |
Xuixien
Attitude Adjustment Incorporated
1180
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 21:39:00 -
[1845] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:An - Archy. Without rulers. Anarchy is simply self rule. It has nothing to do with a lack of order. Order emerges from social interaction. Like in Eve. There is no top down rule of how to make or run a corp, or even how to run that corp or play this game. The players self organize and do things. "confusion" "wild behavior" is nonsense. Go into the countryside of whereever you live and observe people living largely without any top down guidance. Does it seem "wild"? Go into any city on a friday night, and observe people in a space with a lot of rules and laws and enforcement. Does that seem "peaceful"? Something to think about. No. It's absolutely nothing to think about. Anarchy is not self rule. Nobody is in charge of anything. If you are going to deny the dictionaries, I cannot converse with you.
Jesus.
Maybe you'd be better off not using 3 sentence dictionary entries to inform your thinking on complex political discourse.
AUT5M - Active WH Corporation seeking new recruits. Frequent fleets, perfect boosts, material buyback, and more. Battleship/Logi/T3 pilots needed. Inquire within. Full API required. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1223
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 22:35:00 -
[1846] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:...
Personal responsibility for your own actions is a big part of the game and a big part of real life too.... The only difference between the two is that Erotica has been punished and Sokhar has not. Personal responsibility is for poor and weak people, anyone with any real wisdom knows that the rich and powerful avoid personal responsibility easily. There are more differences between Ero1 and Sokhar than that one was punished and one was not. Way more.
Congratulations on thinking like a sociopath. Personal responsibility cannot be avoided it can only be pushed onto other people or organisations willing to act on it, at which point it's no longer personal but organisational. This is how ccp now have the responsibility to deal with the fallout of sokhars choice to enter the bonus room.
Damn, I reasoned myself into agreeing with you... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1223
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 22:43:00 -
[1847] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:I just got back from my local park where I was enjoying watching the sheer innocent joy of children that can be truly excited to the core in the simple act of running around with no purpose. No anger. No hate. Just the simple pleasure of existing. How do we go from that to what I see in this thread? People desperately trying to justify the actions of a sadistic psychopath. Even going so far as to express joy in listening to the recordings of, and the participating in, that twisted TS channel. Like I said earlier. We are one ****** up species. Mr Epeen It's because we idiotically gave the ignorant and socially malformed a broadcasting tool that lets them shout out to the entire world practically with almost complete anonymity. It used to be only by submitted and approved Op Ed letters and such, which mostly never saw the light of day (thankfully). If all Tweets, Facebook Updates, and Forum postings were required to include a valid name and address, we would not even hear one thousandth of it at all. Take away the guardians at the gate and anarchy takes over immediately.
Are they really guardians at the gate or are they our jailers? Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
2840
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 22:51:00 -
[1848] - Quote
I thought that due to the freedom the game offered that those more inclined to violence and such came first, and those who wanted only to burn rocks and build Merlins came after?
I can completely accept that might be wrong, thats just what I thought when I first heard about it and signed up after I was impressed by the death of BoB *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
613
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 23:23:00 -
[1849] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:No. It's absolutely nothing to think about. No thinking!
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Anarchy is not self rule. Nobody is in charge of anything. Well in anarchy, people are "in charge of" themselves.
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:If you are going to deny the dictionaries, I cannot converse with you.
Not all dictionaries have the exact same definition. Which one is correct?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy
Wikipedia also disagrees with your dictionary definition.
Quote:Etymology
The word anarchy comes from the ancient Greek ß+Ç+++¦-ü-ç+»+¦, anarchia, from ß+Ç++ an, "not, without" + ß+Ç-ü-ç-î-é arkhos, "ruler", meaning "absence of a ruler", "without rulers").
How dare you deny etymology. Jesus. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4774
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 23:27:00 -
[1850] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:I just got back from my local park where I was enjoying watching the sheer innocent joy of children that can be truly excited to the core in the simple act of running around with no purpose. No anger. No hate. Just the simple pleasure of existing. How do we go from that to what I see in this thread? People desperately trying to justify the actions of a sadistic psychopath. Even going so far as to express joy in listening to the recordings of, and the participating in, that twisted TS channel. Like I said earlier. We are one ****** up species. Mr Epeen It's because we idiotically gave the ignorant and socially malformed a broadcasting tool that lets them shout out to the entire world practically with almost complete anonymity. It used to be only by submitted and approved Op Ed letters and such, which mostly never saw the light of day (thankfully). If all Tweets, Facebook Updates, and Forum postings were required to include a valid name and address, we would not even hear one thousandth of it at all. Take away the guardians at the gate and anarchy takes over immediately. Are they really guardians at the gate or are they our jailers?
In as much as we pay a monthly subscription to stay in jail and accept to abide by the rules they set for us to remain incarcerated.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
|
Winchester Steele
760
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 01:05:00 -
[1851] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Gerald Mardiska wrote: granted they should have stopped before he went mental, but clearly that wasnt there plan. if im correct they wanted to break him emotionally.
Did they? Was there any proof of this?
Ripard's blog isn't proof?? Welp, there goes my world view. ... |
Druthlen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
99
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 03:25:00 -
[1852] - Quote
I took some time off from this game with all this nonsense. I could not in good conscience play a game were the owners allowed such events to occur. I think banning ero 1 was the right thing to do. I will never forget how sadistic this guy sounded. I want to play with in game villains not serial killers in the making. I hope the FBI is watching him. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
752
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 04:30:00 -
[1853] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote: "confusion" "wild behavior" is nonsense. Go into the countryside of whereever you live and observe people living largely without any top down guidance. Does it seem "wild"?
Obviously you have not been to the Rural American South. (See the film "Deliverance".) ed: A Town Too Florida even for Florida You really think a movie is real???... With thinking like that it's no wonder people can't separate a video game from real life... |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3105
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 04:31:00 -
[1854] - Quote
Druthlen wrote:I took some time off from this game with all this nonsense. I could not in good conscience play a game were the owners allowed such events to occur. I think banning ero 1 was the right thing to do. I will never forget how sadistic this guy sounded. I want to play with in game villains not serial killers in the making. I hope the FBI is watching him. You sound pretty sadistic yourself. You look like a serial killer too.
Oh god. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
487
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 05:01:00 -
[1855] - Quote
People need to really re-evaluate what in game and out of game is lol
Talking to someone on TS while playing the game is IN GAME to me. PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears you will be harvested |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
487
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 05:02:00 -
[1856] - Quote
Druthlen wrote:I took some time off from this game with all this nonsense. I could not in good conscience play a game were the owners allowed such events to occur. I think banning ero 1 was the right thing to do. I will never forget how sadistic this guy sounded. I want to play with in game villains not serial killers in the making. I hope the FBI is watching him.
Never mind they allowed this to occur for about a year without comment.
Can I have your stuff? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears you will be harvested |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2850
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 07:06:00 -
[1857] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Druthlen wrote:I took some time off from this game with all this nonsense. I could not in good conscience play a game were the owners allowed such events to occur. I think banning ero 1 was the right thing to do. I will never forget how sadistic this guy sounded. I want to play with in game villains not serial killers in the making. I hope the FBI is watching him. You sound pretty sadistic yourself. You look like a serial killer too.
Its so wierd that Sebiestors alwayscome off with the "we are morally superior" attitudes and the "being a big meanie makes you EXACTLY the same as Jeffery Dahlmer" statements
And look at their cold, dead eyes and fish-people faces *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
856
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 07:23:00 -
[1858] - Quote
Have Ripard Teg and Sohkar been banned yet? |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
826
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 07:30:00 -
[1859] - Quote
A suggestion to fix it all and go back to enjoying EVE, if you will;
Don't tackle all the examples from the past but focus on the future (may it be as bright as ever) of EVE. Don't ban Shadoo, Grath, The goons who stole more than a thousand $ worth of stuff from a player all the while edging him to go back to WOW Unban who's banned be it Sokhar, Erotica Ripard or Malcanis.
CCP changes the rules (THE HORROR) to reflect they don't have the cabability to police what happens outside of their game. CCP changes the rules some more to add the following caveat; If we deam a certain type of behavior not befitting an EVE player, we will warn said player of this sentiment and allow him one chance to stop or alter it. If what we defined as bad behavior continues after the official warning. BAN THE WITCH!
Rejocice stuff changed but it didn't, let's go back to whatever it is we were doing. My, that's some nice bling you've got there
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
826
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 07:32:00 -
[1860] - Quote
A suggestion to fix it all and go back to enjoying EVE, if you will;
Don't tackle all the examples from the past but focus on the future (may it be as bright as ever) of EVE. Don't ban Shadoo, Grath, The goons who stole more than a thousand $ worth of stuff from a player all the while edging him to go back to WOW Unban who's banned be it Sokhar, Erotica Ripard or Malcanis.
CCP changes the rules (THE HORROR) to reflect they don't have the cabability to police what happens outside of their game. CCP changes the rules some more to add the following caveat; If we deam a certain type of behavior not befitting an EVE player, we will warn said player of this sentiment and allow him one chance to stop or alter it. If what we defined as bad behavior continues after the official warning. BAN THE WITCH!
Rejocice stuff changed but it didn't, let's go back to whatever it is we were doing. My, that's some nice bling you've got there
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
|
Dex Lysia
Hollywood Shoes and Bags Chained Reactions
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 07:48:00 -
[1861] - Quote
This has been a sad week for Eve.
Recent events have brought to the foreground some of the most distasteful corners of Eve. The activities of the people in these corners are not related to Eve-defined PvP such as ship, market or sovereignty combat. They are in a different league to the harmless, impersonal invitations to send all your ISK to someone in the idiotic hope that they will return more than you sent.
A number of people, myself included, have expressed their concern at these distasteful activities and requested that CCP distance themselves from these sick few. Unfortunately this number didn't seem to be big enough to swing CCP and all we got was a carefully worded statement of no change of the status quo.
They consciously chose to support the sick few by their lack of positive action. I had hoped that this would have been an excellent opportunity to take some positive action and attempt to clean up the media's representation of the game's reputation. Instead they chose to reinforce the existing image of a place of freedom for the worst elements of gaming society.
|
SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
370
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 07:53:00 -
[1862] - Quote
Does anyone care what the "victim" thought in this situation? He didn't even think of himself of a victim, until riptard publicly shamed him even worse.. I disagree |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2851
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 07:54:00 -
[1863] - Quote
Dex Lysia wrote:This has been a sad week for Eve. Recent events have brought to the foreground some of the most distasteful corners of Eve. The activities of the people in these corners are not related to Eve-defined PvP such as ship, market or sovereignty combat. They are in a different league to the harmless, impersonal invitations to send all your ISK to someone in the idiotic hope that they will return more than you sent. A number of people, myself included, have expressed their concern at these distasteful activities and requested that CCP distance themselves from these sick few. Unfortunately this number didn't seem to be big enough to swing CCP and all we got was a carefully worded statement of no change of the status quo. They consciously chose to support the sick few by their lack of positive action. I had hoped that this would have been an excellent opportunity to take some positive action and attempt to clean up the media's representation of the game's reputation. Instead they chose to reinforce the existing image of a place of freedom for the worst elements of gaming society.
Someone hasnt been paying attention *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
858
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 07:59:00 -
[1864] - Quote
No one should be banned. That is the point. the only reason anyone is banned is because CCP was getting bad press.
The Bonus Room wasn't a problem a year ago. CCP Knew about it. Why is it suddenly a problem now. Answer bad press in the MMO community. Thanks Ripard Teg.
Its just like when Mittani got banned...oh wait no it isn't Erotica1 has never told this community to troll someone until they commit suicide.
The only reason someone was banned was because CCP took some heat. That is it, that is all. If Ripard never wrote his blog, and this didn't become an issue in the MMO community, then it would have been business as usual, just as it has been for over a year. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2854
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 08:07:00 -
[1865] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:No one should be banned. That is the point. the only reason anyone is banned is because CCP was getting bad press.
The Bonus Room wasn't a problem a year ago. CCP Knew about it. Why is it suddenly a problem now. Answer bad press in the MMO community. Thanks Ripard Teg.
Its just like when Mittani got banned...oh wait no it isn't Erotica1 has never told this community to troll someone until they commit suicide.
The only reason someone was banned was because CCP took some heat. That is it, that is all. If Ripard never wrote his blog, and this didn't become an issue in the MMO community, then it would have been business as usual, just as it has been for over a year.
Further, if we had stayed in New Eden, the Game of Threads wouldnt have magnified this issue out of all proportion either
But then, Im a sick psychopath who needs kicked in the face, so what do I know *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
66
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 08:23:00 -
[1866] - Quote
SKINE DMZ wrote:Does anyone care what the "victim" thought in this situation? He didn't even think of himself of a victim, until riptard publicly shamed him even worse..
^^ This ^^
Sokhar might as well Bio-mass at this point (Assuming he isn't banned). All riptard did was paint a bulls-eye on this guy and his eve career as "Sokhar" is effectively over. We all fall for scams at some point, but all this has done is rub salt in the wound making him and any corp he joins a major target.
While CCP may have been investigating this way before riptard's blog post (entirely possible, we don't know and probably never will) All the post did was publicize Sokhar's misfortune (all of his own doing) with inflammatory words such as "tortured".
Also, didn't sokhar specifically go on record saying he wasn't harassed. I hate to state the obvious, but you cant have harassment without someone being harassed. Just saying...
|
Salvos Rhoska
930
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 08:28:00 -
[1867] - Quote
And if Erotica1 and Co had never taken their activities to such extremes for as long as they did, none of this would have happened.
This is the status quo. Adapt and HTFU :) ------------ |
GrowlingMadScientist
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 08:28:00 -
[1868] - Quote
SKINE DMZ wrote:Does anyone care what the "victim" thought in this situation? He didn't even think of himself of a victim, until riptard publicly shamed him even worse..
In these cases the opinion of the victim does not count much, look up the term "Stockholm syndrome". |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
67
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 08:31:00 -
[1869] - Quote
GrowlingMadScientist wrote:SKINE DMZ wrote:Does anyone care what the "victim" thought in this situation? He didn't even think of himself of a victim, until riptard publicly shamed him even worse.. In these cases the opinion of the victim does not count much, look up the term "Stockholm syndrome".
Surely your trolling right? Because we all know Rokhar was a kidnapping victim being held against his will... >.>
0/10
|
GrowlingMadScientist
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 08:39:00 -
[1870] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:GrowlingMadScientist wrote:SKINE DMZ wrote:Does anyone care what the "victim" thought in this situation? He didn't even think of himself of a victim, until riptard publicly shamed him even worse.. In these cases the opinion of the victim does not count much, look up the term "Stockholm syndrome". Surely your trolling right? Because we all know Rokhar was a kidnapping victim being held against his will... >.> 0/10
It is not restricted to hostage scenario's, that's only where it was first observed and classified.
Read the definition, even the 2nd paragraph on wikipedia states:
'Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other."' |
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
68
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 08:47:00 -
[1871] - Quote
GrowlingMadScientist wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:GrowlingMadScientist wrote:SKINE DMZ wrote:Does anyone care what the "victim" thought in this situation? He didn't even think of himself of a victim, until riptard publicly shamed him even worse.. In these cases the opinion of the victim does not count much, look up the term "Stockholm syndrome". Surely your trolling right? Because we all know Rokhar was a kidnapping victim being held against his will... >.> 0/10 It is not restricted to hostage scenario's, that's only where it was first observed and classified. Read the definition, even the 2nd paragraph on wikipedia states: 'Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other."'
I would buy this if Sokhar had been keeping in contact with erotica. Evidence shows the only interaction these 2 parties had were last month when the scam took place, and just last week after the **** hit the fan. Also did you even listen to the last half hour of the scam recording. Do you really think he was having a bonding experience with Erotica? Sounds to me like he wanted to rip Erotica's head off.
So again what does 'Stockholm syndrome' have anything to do with this case?
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2857
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 08:53:00 -
[1872] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:And if Erotica1 and Co had never taken their activities to such extremes for as long as they did, none of this would have happened.
This is the status quo. Adapt and HTFU :)
You know, these two sentences together have made your point far clearer than any of your previous posts have.
Given my recent comment in the other near-identical thread in GD, I can see what youve been trying to say.
I suppose that shows that when things are looked at without an emotional reaction involved, even positions which seem to be polarised from each other can be a lot closer.
+1 buddy.
+1 *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
827
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 08:58:00 -
[1873] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:And if Erotica1 and Co had never taken their activities to such extremes for as long as they did, none of this would have happened.
This is the status quo. Adapt and HTFU :) You know, these two sentences together have made your point far clearer than any of your previous posts have. Given my recent comment in the other near-identical thread in GD, I can see what youve been trying to say. I suppose that shows that when things are looked at without an emotional reaction involved, even positions which seem to be polarised from each other can be a lot closer. +1 buddy. +1
See we could make this a threesome, if you could accept that people need to be warned by CCP when they are crossing the invisible line. When warned you get the chance to adapt and HTFU, if not warned you don't need to because it's all good.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Salvos Rhoska
932
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 09:02:00 -
[1874] - Quote
Danalee wrote:See we could make this a threesome, if you could accept that people need to be warned by CCP when they are crossing the invisible line.
I do not accept that, or agree with it. Nor is it true. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2860
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 09:07:00 -
[1875] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Danalee wrote:See we could make this a threesome, if you could accept that people need to be warned by CCP when they are crossing the invisible line. I do not accept that, or agree with it. Nor is it true.
Well, finding common ground between disagreeing parties is what we are trying to do here.
As I said in the other thread, CCP do often issue warnings when someone is nearing the invisible line, and to be honest, I find that a completely acceptable position, and more than one has come to expect from Blizzard, Games Workshop, Microshaft etc etc etc *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
GrowlingMadScientist
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 09:08:00 -
[1876] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote: I would buy this if Sokhar had been keeping in contact with erotica. Evidence shows the only interaction these 2 parties had were last month when the scam took place, and just last week after the **** hit the fan. Also did you even listen to the last half hour of the scam recording. Do you really think he was having a bonding experience with Erotica? Sounds to me like he wanted to rip Erotica's head off.
So again what does 'Stockholm syndrome' have anything to do with this case?
From what I have read, Sokhar has defended/played down what had happened. And if that's the case a mild 'Stockholm syndrome' could be an explanation.
I haven't heard the recording of the later interactions you mentioned, though. In any case the opinion of the 'victim' does not matter much, just as in the case of domestic violence. If someone gets injured the authorities will act, even if the victim defends the perpetrator. At least in most civilized countries I guess. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
69
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 09:09:00 -
[1877] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:And if Erotica1 and Co had never taken their activities to such extremes for as long as they did, none of this would have happened.
This is the status quo. Adapt and HTFU :) You know, these two sentences together have made your point far clearer than any of your previous posts have. Given my recent comment in the other near-identical thread in GD, I can see what youve been trying to say. I suppose that shows that when things are looked at without an emotional reaction involved, even positions which seem to be polarised from each other can be a lot closer. +1 buddy. +1 See we could make this a threesome, if you could accept that people need to be warned by CCP when they are crossing the invisible line. When warned you get the chance to adapt and HTFU, if not warned you don't need to because it's all good. D.
Although I have made my stance known, We are all assuming he wasn't warned. Perhaps he was and thats why his sanction was so severe. Since CCP wont make a statement based on actions taken on somebody's account we will never know. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
827
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 09:13:00 -
[1878] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Danalee wrote:See we could make this a threesome, if you could accept that people need to be warned by CCP when they are crossing the invisible line. When warned you get the chance to adapt and HTFU, if not warned you don't need to because it's all good. I do not accept that, or agree with it. Nor is it true.
Pray tell, why would someone adapt anything if his actions are condoned than?
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
827
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 09:15:00 -
[1879] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Danalee wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:And if Erotica1 and Co had never taken their activities to such extremes for as long as they did, none of this would have happened.
This is the status quo. Adapt and HTFU :) You know, these two sentences together have made your point far clearer than any of your previous posts have. Given my recent comment in the other near-identical thread in GD, I can see what youve been trying to say. I suppose that shows that when things are looked at without an emotional reaction involved, even positions which seem to be polarised from each other can be a lot closer. +1 buddy. +1 See we could make this a threesome, if you could accept that people need to be warned by CCP when they are crossing the invisible line. When warned you get the chance to adapt and HTFU, if not warned you don't need to because it's all good. Although I have made my stance known, We are all assuming he wasn't warned. Perhaps he was and thats why his sanction was so severe. Since CCP wont make a statement based on actions taken on somebody's account we will never know.
He wasn't warned, he stated as much in different threads and reached out to CCP to tell him what they thought about it only to be treated with the silence treatment and a ban.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
70
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 09:20:00 -
[1880] - Quote
GrowlingMadScientist wrote: From what I have read, Sokhar has defended/played down what had happened. And if that's the case a mild 'Stockholm syndrome' could be an explanation.
See below
Asia Leigh wrote: Edit: Also in the latest recording Sohkar also states he didn't want to join Erotica's corp, be a bonus room agent, or really have anything to do with erotica... So theirs that too
GrowingMadScientist wrote: In any case the opinion of the 'victim' does not matter much, just as in the case of domestic violence. If someone gets injured the authorities will act, even if the victim defends the perpetrator. At least in most civilized countries I guess.
I'm guessing you don't live in the US with its corrupt judicial system, lol
But you do have a point. I guess I'm more upset about the way this came to light and the apparent strong arming of CCP to take the action they did then anything else. My only concern is would CCP had taken this action if ripard had not written his post and threatened to go to the news media with it. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
932
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 10:01:00 -
[1881] - Quote
CSMs have stated they are satisfied Erotica1's side of things was duly considered and represented, and the statement issued carries their approval. ------------ |
Sarel Hendar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 10:49:00 -
[1882] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:An - Archy. Without rulers. Anarchy is simply self rule. It has nothing to do with a lack of order. Order emerges from social interaction. Like in Eve. There is no top down rule of how to make or run a corp, or even how to run that corp or play this game. The players self organize and do things. "confusion" "wild behavior" is nonsense. Go into the countryside of whereever you live and observe people living largely without any top down guidance. Does it seem "wild"? Go into any city on a friday night, and observe people in a space with a lot of rules and laws and enforcement. Does that seem "peaceful"? Something to think about.
I believe the term you're looking for is "chaos", as in "societal chaos". Many would-be dictators and other varieties of totalitarians deliberately attempt to confuse that situation with anarchy to further their own aims. |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra Gallente Federation
101
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 10:52:00 -
[1883] - Quote
Danalee wrote:He wasn't warned, he stated as much in different threads and reached out to CCP to tell him what they thought about it only to be treated with the silence treatment and a ban. D. While I think E1 took his bonus round stuff too far I loathe CCP's ways in this matter. Not acting for years and then when controversy breaks out smash the ban hammer without warning... Yesyes, we all know they can basicly do whatever they want based on their EULA/TOS but this is just taking the easy way out... |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2868
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 10:53:00 -
[1884] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
Go into the countryside of whereever you live and observe people living largely without any top down guidance. Does it seem "wild"?
Go into any city on a friday night, and observe people in a space with a lot of rules and laws and enforcement. Does that seem "peaceful"?
This is the most disingenuous comparsion I have read in a very long time.
It would be helpful to aligning people with your point of view and helping them agree if real examples of societies where Anarchies didnt devolve into chaos could be cited, please. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 10:57:00 -
[1885] - Quote
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote: While I think E1 took his bonus round stuff too far I loathe CCP's ways in this matter. Not acting for years and then when controversy breaks out smash the ban hammer without warning... Yesyes, we all know they can basicly do whatever they want based on their EULA/TOS but this is just taking the easy way out...
And it still goes on.
EVE = an online entertainment service (a game) operated by CCP.
CCP, as the service provider, makes the rules and interprets them as they see fit. Including, from time to time, banning users who they feel have behaved in a manner that could damage the service or bring their brand into disrepute.
It just so happens that CCP likes to keep the rules pretty fast and loose, to enable all sorts of emergent game play and role play. But, inevitably, there are those who will go too far.
Don't expect somebody to hold your hand and tell you exactly where the boundaries are.
Do pay attention and, when somebody crosses a line and gets banned, remember what they did. That's probably a useful indication of where one or more of the boundaries might be. You might want to adjust your play style, if necessary, to avoid a similar outcome.
If you are too thick/immature/selfish to understand that, please, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
The sheer volume of puerile, self-entitled b.s. evident in this and related threads is staggering.
[EDIT: to specify the quote this is in response to] |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
75
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:24:00 -
[1886] - Quote
^^ what he said |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
828
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:48:00 -
[1887] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Meilandra Vanderganken wrote: While I think E1 took his bonus round stuff too far I loathe CCP's ways in this matter. Not acting for years and then when controversy breaks out smash the ban hammer without warning... Yesyes, we all know they can basicly do whatever they want based on their EULA/TOS but this is just taking the easy way out...
And it still goes on. EVE = an online entertainment service (a game) operated by CCP. CCP, as the service provider, makes the rules and interprets them as they see fit. Including, from time to time, banning users who they feel have behaved in a manner that could damage the service or bring their brand into disrepute. It just so happens that CCP likes to keep the rules pretty fast and loose, to enable all sorts of emergent game play and role play. But, inevitably, there are those who will go too far. Don't expect somebody to hold your hand and tell you exactly where the boundaries are. Do pay attention and, when somebody crosses a line and gets banned, remember what they did. That's probably a useful indication of where one or more of the boundaries might be. You might want to adjust your play style, if necessary, to avoid a similar outcome. If you are too thick/immature/selfish to understand that, please, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. The sheer volume of puerile, self-entitled b.s. evident in this and related threads is staggering. [EDIT: to specify the quote this is in response to]
So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better? Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned.
Don't fret, If you are too thick/immature/selfish to even consider a fair warning to be in the best interest of everyone involved I implore you to keep sticking your head in the sand.
Quoting the good pastor Martin Niem+¦ller;
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
306
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:57:00 -
[1888] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Bael Malefic wrote:Meilandra Vanderganken wrote: While I think E1 took his bonus round stuff too far I loathe CCP's ways in this matter. Not acting for years and then when controversy breaks out smash the ban hammer without warning... Yesyes, we all know they can basicly do whatever they want based on their EULA/TOS but this is just taking the easy way out...
And it still goes on. EVE = an online entertainment service (a game) operated by CCP. CCP, as the service provider, makes the rules and interprets them as they see fit. Including, from time to time, banning users who they feel have behaved in a manner that could damage the service or bring their brand into disrepute. It just so happens that CCP likes to keep the rules pretty fast and loose, to enable all sorts of emergent game play and role play. But, inevitably, there are those who will go too far. Don't expect somebody to hold your hand and tell you exactly where the boundaries are. Do pay attention and, when somebody crosses a line and gets banned, remember what they did. That's probably a useful indication of where one or more of the boundaries might be. You might want to adjust your play style, if necessary, to avoid a similar outcome. If you are too thick/immature/selfish to understand that, please, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. The sheer volume of puerile, self-entitled b.s. evident in this and related threads is staggering. [EDIT: to specify the quote this is in response to] So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better? Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned. Don't fret, If you are too thick/immature/selfish to even consider a fair warning to be in the best interest of everyone involved I implore you to keep sticking your head in the sand. Quoting the good pastor Martin Niem+¦ller; First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me. D. Oh please. Scamming, griefing or even playing in online game is hardly comparable to loss of liberty and life in real world. CCP has every right to deny service to anyone they want and they really should keep their cards hidden so as to force people think whether they are going too far or not. As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2869
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 11:59:00 -
[1889] - Quote
CCP have stated they take into account the age of a player who plays the dangerous game *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Salvos Rhoska
937
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:01:00 -
[1890] - Quote
The slippery slope argument slips both ways.
Without intervention, bad conduct will slide into worse conduct.
It is exactly to prevent that sliding, that action must be taken.
And what has prompted that action, is a group of people "sliding" down that side of the mountain into a place that the game doesn't want to be.
Erotica1, with his extreme and protracted actions, has jeapordised all of our freedom. Its exactly people that abuse the levity of existing laws, that force society to implement stricter ones, whereas before, the existing ones where adequate.
This is no hero of freedom we are talking about here. Its someone who irresponsibly abused the freedom we had, to the result that now all of our freedom is under closer scrutiny and tighter parameters. ------------ |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2869
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:05:00 -
[1891] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:slips
slide into
sliding
a group of people "sliding" down
tighter
You press my buttons sometimes *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:07:00 -
[1892] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The slippery slope argument slips both ways.
Without intervention, bad conduct will slide into worse conduct.
Wow, never thought you'd be making my argument for me. Thanks! So you agree a warning from CCP when you are behaving in a way the doesn't comply with their invisible line is prudent. +1
Anna Karhunen wrote:Oh please. Scamming, griefing or even playing in online game is hardly comparable to loss of liberty and life in real world. CCP has every right to deny service to anyone they want and they really should keep their cards hidden so as to force people think whether they are going too far or not. Nice sidestep of the question, I'll paste it here for you to answer; So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better? Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned.
I could agree with you if EVE online was free to play.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
306
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:17:00 -
[1893] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Anna Karhunen wrote:Oh please. Scamming, griefing or even playing in online game is hardly comparable to loss of liberty and life in real world. CCP has every right to deny service to anyone they want and they really should keep their cards hidden so as to force people think whether they are going too far or not. Nice sidestep of the question, I'll paste it here for you to answer; So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better?Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned.
I could agree with you if EVE online was free to play. D. If CCP returns the money paid for unused time (that is, if you paid that with money and not PLEX which can be bought with in game money), I am perfectly fine with them getting rid of players they don't want playing their game. It is up to CCP to decide whom they want in the game. If that means they only want sociopaths, sadists and such, then so be it. If they want us normal people, that is fine as well.
Your quoting Martin Niem+¦ller and making allusions that banning toxic person like Erotica 1 (no idea if he is banned or not) would be akin to holocaust... I find all that rather distasteful, hyperbolic and indicative that you really should spend more time in real life instead of forums. As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:23:00 -
[1894] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:Danalee wrote:Anna Karhunen wrote:Oh please. Scamming, griefing or even playing in online game is hardly comparable to loss of liberty and life in real world. CCP has every right to deny service to anyone they want and they really should keep their cards hidden so as to force people think whether they are going too far or not. Nice sidestep of the question, I'll paste it here for you to answer; So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better?Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned.
I could agree with you if EVE online was free to play. If CCP returns the money paid for unused time (that is, if you paid that with money and not PLEX which can be bought with in game money), I am perfectly fine with them getting rid of players they don't want playing their game. It is up to CCP to decide whom they want in the game. If that means they only want sociopaths, sadists and such, then so be it. If they want us normal people, that is fine as well. Your quoting Martin Niem+¦ller and making allusions that banning toxic person like Erotica 1 (no idea if he is banned or not) would be akin to holocaust... I find all that rather distasteful, hyperbolic and indicative that you really should spend more time in real life instead of forums.
Ouch, I didn't hurt your feelings by quoting an appropriate quote, did I? The allusions you found in a perfectly good quote are all on you.
Ok, CCP doesn't give refunds so again, should you get a warning if what you are doing crosses an unwritten rule? Not so hard a question, or is it? We are talking about in general, not about Erotica 1, Ripard, or any other "toxic elements" as you like to call fellow players.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:28:00 -
[1895] - Quote
Danalee wrote:So you feel everyone including new players should first check out everything that happened in EVE ever and adapt accordingly or can you agree that a warning when crossing an invisible line would be better? Especially considering some people get away with it where others get banned. Don't fret, If you are too thick/immature/selfish to even consider a fair warning to be in the best interest of everyone involved I implore you to keep sticking your head in the sand. Quoting the good pastor Martin Niem+¦ller; First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me. D.
Sounds like you can't handle ambiguity. Maybe when you grow up you will be better able to accept that things won't always be the way you want them to be. So sorry CCP doesn't do things the way you want all the time.
Warning? Never said I am against warnings. Warnings - like any other threat - are worthless without enforcement. Maybe Erotica 1 was warned before. In any case, still irrelevant - complaining about CCP's enforcement of their rules in their game is about as pointless as complaining about the weather.
As for quoting Niemoller - Do you really equivocate the holocaust with CCP banning some videogame assholes from a videogame for being assholes? Are you really that disconnected from reality?
You have an obvious choice. Nobody is forcing you to play.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2872
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:28:00 -
[1896] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote: If that means they only want sociopaths, sadists and such, then so be it.
Anna Karhunen wrote:I find all that rather distasteful, hyperbolic and indicative that you really should spend more time in real life instead of forums.
I dont understand how you can actually say these two things in the same post and not know you are being hypocritical
Anna Karhunen wrote:If they want us normal people, that is fine as well. We are honoured by your presence, Your Majesty *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 12:44:00 -
[1897] - Quote
Haha, you hatemongers are awesomesauce!
It's quite obvious what you think but reason be damned your forum cred won't suffer! So we are in agreement than, when paying for a service where you can do whatever you want unless it crosses a hidden line it's good practice to warn paying customers they are crossing the invisible line.
I don't compare anything related to eve, teamspeak or even hurt feelings to anything related to the holocaust because that would be SICK, can't imagine who thinks like that.... Oh wait.
Thanks.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Salvos Rhoska
937
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 13:30:00 -
[1898] - Quote
Danalee wrote:! So you agree a warning from CCP when you are behaving in a way the doesn't comply with their invisible line is prudent. +1]
A warning would be "nice", but its not a term you can claim you are entitled to.
Concretely also, the ways these things work on a practical level, there are sometimes different people handling specific instances.
I, for example, received two warnings from two different authority people, almost simultaneously, for the same one improper use of language ingame, in one incident.
I sent a ticket therafter, not disputing that I had been wrong (though I suppose I could have), but to double check I didnt get double marked for the same infraction.
Turns out I had been, and the situatiin was corrected.
Trust CCP. I do. Else I wouldnt be giving them my money.
In theory at least, it is perfectly acceptable and fine, for someone with a scam in mind, for example, to contact CCP with the specifics and ask directly that "would this be ok?" This seems counter-intuitive, but actually its extremely prudent to do so, escpecially if your scam is very unusual and unprecedented. I think its safe to say CCP wont ban you for asking :D TNOs entire operation, for example, was auditted and on consultation with CCP, ensured that it fits their ingame policy as acceptable.
There have been unofficiated reports that Erotica1 would have done just that, and asked CCP is his conduct inline with their policy, to which I seem to remember CSM Malcanis saying he had intent to look into that.
Ive ranted that CSM are not representative of me personally, but Ive never argued that they arent representative of the player base. This case, in particular, has shown the value of this ingame representative body as both a watchdog for player interests, as well as a group we, as players, atleast nominally, can trust to represent our interests as players to the governing body that is CCP.
------------ |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
37
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:17:00 -
[1899] - Quote
Danalee wrote:...So we are in agreement than, when paying for a service where you can do whatever you want unless it crosses a hidden line it's good practice to warn paying customers they are crossing the invisible line... The line still isn't invisible. This case is clearer, not murkier, than most, in that one of the perps posted the audio files to the Internet for all to see. Multiple instances of verifiable, real-life harassment connected to the game.
I can understand some confusion in a poster who is unaware of the extent of the toxicity, but serial harassers foolish or compulsive enough to out themselves to the world in close association with EVE IP may not merit a warning. Particularly "paying" customers who may be paying only with PLEX converted from scams. I doubt your implied revenue argument is relevant.
If you're running your own bonus room, though, I recommend not publishing the evidence. You'll probably get away with it, without any need for conspiracy theories about invisible lines. |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1060
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:38:00 -
[1900] - Quote
So its Lord of The Flies still relevant to all of this or are we past that already?
This entire thread is extremely confusing. |
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
830
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 14:55:00 -
[1901] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:Danalee wrote:...So we are in agreement than, when paying for a service where you can do whatever you want unless it crosses a hidden line it's good practice to warn paying customers they are crossing the invisible line... The line still isn't invisible. This case is clearer, not murkier, than most, in that one of the perps posted the audio files to the Internet for all to see. Multiple instances of verifiable, real-life harassment connected to the game. I can understand some confusion in a poster who is unaware of the extent of the toxicity, but serial harassers foolish or compulsive enough to out themselves to the world in close association with EVE IP may not merit a warning. Particularly "paying" customers who may be paying only with PLEX converted from scams. I doubt your implied revenue argument is relevant. If you're running your own bonus room, though, I recommend not publishing the evidence. You'll probably get away with it, without any need for conspiracy theories about invisible lines.
The more people dance arround this, the more strongly I feel about how the warning is the best and most common sense solution.
To make it totally clear once more; This isn't specificly about that single case.
If however in the one case where this whole debate sprouted from, a warning had been issued, we wouldn't have had all the bad publicity, hurt feelings, lost players, frustrated CSM members et all. We'd all be playing the game we love. So, if CCP and the CSM are honestly looking for a way to prevent this kind of things happening and have a better community from it there is no need to choose from an elaborate list of choices and no need to change the rules. They just need improve their communication with the players a little bit.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1060
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:06:00 -
[1902] - Quote
Danalee wrote:If however in the one case where this whole debate sprouted from, a warning had been issued, we wouldn't have had all the bad publicity, hurt feelings, lost players, frustrated CSM members et all. We'd all be playing the game we love. So, if CCP and the CSM are honestly looking for a way to prevent this kind of things happening and have a better community from it there is no need to choose from an elaborate list of choices and no need to change the rules. They just need improve their communication with the players a little bit. D.
Well, just keep in mind that communications are a hell of a lot better than they used to be. But yes, there is still room for improvement, especially over things such as this.
This isn't the first time that there was a backlash over bad press. In the 9 years I have been playing it seems like situations like this sprout up every so often, and are handled in a way that would suggest everybody forgot about the way it was handled the time prior.
Short term memory? That could very well be the root of the problem. |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:51:00 -
[1903] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Snupe Doggur wrote:Danalee wrote:...So we are in agreement than, when paying for a service where you can do whatever you want unless it crosses a hidden line it's good practice to warn paying customers they are crossing the invisible line... The line still isn't invisible. This case is clearer, not murkier, than most, in that one of the perps posted the audio files to the Internet for all to see. Multiple instances of verifiable, real-life harassment connected to the game. I can understand some confusion in a poster who is unaware of the extent of the toxicity, but serial harassers foolish or compulsive enough to out themselves to the world in close association with EVE IP may not merit a warning. Particularly "paying" customers who may be paying only with PLEX converted from scams. I doubt your implied revenue argument is relevant. If you're running your own bonus room, though, I recommend not publishing the evidence. You'll probably get away with it, without any need for conspiracy theories about invisible lines. The more people dance arround this, the more strongly I feel about how the warning is the best and most common sense solution. To make it totally clear once more; This isn't specificly about that single case. If however in the one case where this whole debate sprouted from, a warning had been issued, we wouldn't have had all the bad publicity, hurt feelings, lost players, frustrated CSM members et all. We'd all be playing the game we love. So, if CCP and the CSM are honestly looking for a way to prevent this kind of things happening and have a better community from it there is no need to choose from an elaborate list of choices and no need to change the rules. They just need improve their communication with the players a little bit. D. No rules were changed, and a ban is one good way to prevent future similar occurrences.
If this about lobbying for a second chance a the banned player, you should probably address all the known actions, and explain why lifting the ban would be more likely to prevent recidivism than would leaving it in place.
Lest this sound snide, I really do believe that a permaban sends a stronger and clearer message about acceptable behavior. I think it is an example of the better communication you say you want. No lengthy explanations or hair-splitting; just a this-is-unacceptable for anyone who cares to familiarize himself with the evidence, with the evidence provided by the banned player out there if anyone cares to divine levels of unacceptability.
I don't see a mystery. No doubt there are other cases where I might complain, but in this situation there's more than enough to show why any game company might move quickly to distance itself.
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
835
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:04:00 -
[1904] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:Danalee wrote:Snupe Doggur wrote:Danalee wrote:...So we are in agreement than, when paying for a service where you can do whatever you want unless it crosses a hidden line it's good practice to warn paying customers they are crossing the invisible line... The line still isn't invisible. This case is clearer, not murkier, than most, in that one of the perps posted the audio files to the Internet for all to see. Multiple instances of verifiable, real-life harassment connected to the game. I can understand some confusion in a poster who is unaware of the extent of the toxicity, but serial harassers foolish or compulsive enough to out themselves to the world in close association with EVE IP may not merit a warning. Particularly "paying" customers who may be paying only with PLEX converted from scams. I doubt your implied revenue argument is relevant. If you're running your own bonus room, though, I recommend not publishing the evidence. You'll probably get away with it, without any need for conspiracy theories about invisible lines. The more people dance arround this, the more strongly I feel about how the warning is the best and most common sense solution. To make it totally clear once more; This isn't specificly about that single case. If however in the one case where this whole debate sprouted from, a warning had been issued, we wouldn't have had all the bad publicity, hurt feelings, lost players, frustrated CSM members et all. We'd all be playing the game we love. So, if CCP and the CSM are honestly looking for a way to prevent this kind of things happening and have a better community from it there is no need to choose from an elaborate list of choices and no need to change the rules. They just need improve their communication with the players a little bit. D. No rules were changed, and a ban is one good way to prevent future similar occurrences. If this about lobbying for a second chance a the banned player, you should probably address all the known actions, and explain why lifting the ban would be more likely to prevent recidivism than would leaving it in place. Lest this sound snide, I really do believe that a permaban sends a stronger and clearer message about acceptable behavior. I think it is an example of the better communication you say you want. No lengthy explanations or hair-splitting; just a this-is-unacceptable for anyone who cares to familiarize himself with the evidence, with the evidence provided by the banned player out there if anyone cares to divine levels of unacceptability. I don't see a mystery. No doubt there are other cases where I might complain, but in this situation there's more than enough to show why any game company might move quickly to distance itself.
Ok, tell that to all the new guys joining and being told: BE THE VILLAIN. The don't know who got banned when for what. A warning is commone sense.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:13:00 -
[1905] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Ok, tell that to all the new guys joining and being told: BE THE VILLAIN. The don't know who got banned when for what. A warning is commone sense. D.
Quoted for truth!
+1
BEING AN ******* IS NOT A CRIME! I support un-banning Erotica1
|
Zedrik Cayne
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
210
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:58:00 -
[1906] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Danalee wrote:Ok, tell that to all the new guys joining and being told: BE THE VILLAIN. The don't know who got banned when for what. A warning is commone sense. D. Quoted for truth! +1
A warning is common sense. Except when you go way over the line. Nobody will tell you where the line is. If you want to play around where the line is, you have to be willing to accept that you are taking the 'ultimate' risk. Effectively permadeath.
Kind of like the ultimate risk vs. reward balance. You want to be a villain? Go for it. But know that if you cross the line there is a chance that you will run afoul of the game masters and end up out of game. The line is really wide and kind of obscure and fuzzy, but nobody knows where that is. Anyone who plays on the edges of the line can get caught up in it.
You are gambling with your entire in-game life. Risking it all for some form of reward. Which makes the game great. Because you *can* play on the edges and be successful at it. But there is always the chance that you go too far. I've played on that edge before. Months of blog posts and forum posts that are very embarrassing to certain people. And I did it knowing that I was very much running a risk that I could at any point generate enough noise and enough complaints that I could catch a ban or a warning. And years of investment and time and stories could get wiped out instantly. But I knew and realized it.
What makes EvE great is that the line isn't a straight edge, well defined line. You can play on that edge, or even play right on the line, or even in some cases over the edge of the line. But you do so at your own risk, with the full knowledge that at some point it can all come crashing down.
Many people see this lack of a definitive line as a problem. Those that do are not willing to risk it. Effectively they want to 'be the villain' without risk. And that in reality should not be. There is risk to everything in EvE. Some risks are greater than others. We speak a lot about mitigating that risk. Don't go out in what you can't afford to replace. Don't fly into a situation that you know will get you killed. Bring friends, bring logistics, bring a cyno. Playing on the edges of 'unacceptable behavior' carries a larger risk than anything else you can do in the game. And failure to research it and find out what the precedents are, where lines have been drawn in the past, and by reading a hell of a lot figuring out where the line is moving (because yes boys and girls, the line does move over the years) and adapting your behavior to match is the only risk mitigation you have on this particular play style.
CCP has effectively stated 'We cannot define what is over the line. But we will know it when we see it and take appropriate action' and at this point, we are either going to have to take that statement and accept that we will never have a clear definition of 'How far can I go' or 'Under what circumstances can I catch a ban', or we can stop playing the game against that line and maybe go do something safer. The choice is up to you. Are you going to continue doing 'bonus room activities' and posting the results on a third party site for the amusement of the masses and accept that you may catch a ban for your activities? Or are you going to do something safer. You are the internet equivalent of a Mars bar filled with stupid. |
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:59:00 -
[1907] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Vilar Diin wrote:"We need our Evil Emperors (TheMittani), our Tywin Lannister (Baltec1) and the other assorted scoundrels out there, we even need the phosphorescent green mold that accumulates under many space urinals (The New Order).
What we don't need is a Hannibal Lector mind humping his prey before eating their liver with a nice Chianti, it's not good press, it's not good for player retention and it is not good for the community.
That recording is truly awful and if it evokes such a primal response Eve players (arguably a harder bunch than average) imagine it in the hands of a politician that wants to add restrictions to gaming, mother's being asked for their cc# so a new guy can make an account etc.etc.
Our Hannibal is obviously extremely intelligent and he can change his act if he chooses to, so banning, not the best option in my opinion. He did a disgusting thing, but many things I see in this game, particularly in this thread, which seems to have attracted the worst of the worst in this game, sicken me. However, it's not my game to say what is acceptable; CCP and the community will have to decide." -Drone16
Have to agree here. I would like to think that the person "roleplaying" a truly reprehensible individual in game is not some sort of "spread the lotion on itself..." kind of guy in real life.
After all, the game is Rated:Teen, not 45 with peanut butter issues
I like the stance CCP took, keep the douchebaggery, but let everyone know there are limits that they will determine on a case by case. I'm hoping they actually will learn something from this, but I don't expect them to come here and admit it. But hope springs eternal. I don't know how many people have listened to the stream from last night, but at one point, it came out that the player behind Erotica 1 was talking to Sohkar that same night under one of his other alts, beancounter Jaynara. I haven't listened again to the audio, but my recollection is that Jaynara was complaining about having lost money to Erotica and Sohkar actually volunteered to try to get it back for him. Not only that, Sohkar told Jaynara he planned to PLEX up to take Erotica on. I'll have to find the audio and listen to that part again to confirm the details, but it'd be interesting to hear more about how that whole thing went down. Also, it sounds like Ero may have caught a ban of some sort, so I guess he won't be able to answer here, but if he does do an AMA on reddit, one question I'd have is how it felt to know that the guy you're scamming and pushing to the point of a meltdown is there because he's trying to HELP one of your alts.
Interesting twist. We know Sohkar left and came back to the bonus room. Since there's no record of what he was doing in between, what do you think the chances are that in this interval, he was prompted and encouraged by "Jaynara" to continue his efforts in helping get his stuff back? Even if "Jaynara" did not contact him directly during this time, simply having the motivation of someone else depending on Sohkar could have been a strong part of the reason for his pressing through the bonus room for so long.
It really puts a whole new level on E1's psychological manipulation, doesn't it? |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
781
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:06:00 -
[1908] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Danalee wrote:Ok, tell that to all the new guys joining and being told: BE THE VILLAIN. The don't know who got banned when for what. A warning is commone sense. D. Quoted for truth! +1 Exactly! CCP needs to be clear. Their message should read something like this:
BE THE VILLAIN... IN GAME... NOT IN REAL LIFE. REFRAIN FROM MAKING PEOPLE SPREAD MAYO IN THEIR BODIES OUT OF GAME UNDER THE PRETENSE THAT IT'S STILL IN GAME. REFRAIN FROM REELING PEOPLE OUT OF THE GAME TO GRIEF THEM AND THEIR FAMILY OUT OF GAME.
I mean, come on, how are we supposed to know this stuff is crossing the line unless it's clearly stated in CCP's statements? Its almost as if CCP expects us to have some sort of common sense. |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
39
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:11:00 -
[1909] - Quote
There's no legal precedent anywhere for everyone getting a second chance to commit every offense, not even for minors. I don't know why anyone would expect CCP to change their TOS in that manner. Some mud you drag CCP's name through is too muddy, and some offenders don't get second chances. |
Bayonnefrog
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:28:00 -
[1910] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:No one should be banned. That is the point. the only reason anyone is banned is because CCP was getting bad press.
The Bonus Room wasn't a problem a year ago. CCP Knew about it. Why is it suddenly a problem now. Answer bad press in the MMO community. Thanks Ripard Teg.
Its just like when Mittani got banned...oh wait no it isn't Erotica1 has never told this community to troll someone until they commit suicide.
The only reason someone was banned was because CCP took some heat. That is it, that is all. If Ripard never wrote his blog, and this didn't become an issue in the MMO community, then it would have been business as usual, just as it has been for over a year.
Continue to pass the buck.
Like Ripard stated in his last post this is all a side issue used by the Ero 1 apologists(errrrr obtuse "escrow agents") to somehow justify the depraved behavior exhibited in the Sohkar Bonus Room. The banning was rightly justified. |
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
837
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:29:00 -
[1911] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Danalee wrote:Ok, tell that to all the new guys joining and being told: BE THE VILLAIN. The don't know who got banned when for what. A warning is commone sense. D. Quoted for truth! +1 Exactly! CCP needs to be clear. Their message should read something like this: BE THE VILLAIN... IN GAME... NOT IN REAL LIFE. REFRAIN FROM MAKING PEOPLE SPREAD MAYO IN THEIR BODIES OUT OF GAME UNDER THE PRETENSE THAT IT'S STILL IN GAME. REFRAIN FROM REELING PEOPLE OUT OF THE GAME TO GRIEF THEM AND THEIR FAMILY OUT OF GAME. I mean, come on, how are we supposed to know this stuff is crossing the line unless it's clearly stated in CCP's statements? Its almost as if CCP expects us to have some sort of common sense.
You sure have a weird mayo fetish, I'd have that checked if I was you Anyhow, we are talking about all the fringe cases not just the one pertaining the guy you don't like. Should shadoo be warned not to call other people reatrded? Should that goon who broke a new player and costed him 2000$ all the while taunting him to go back to WOW be warned he is entering a grey area. Should all the tear harvesters be warned if they start drawing blood? etc... etc... etc....
For the one thing that is clear in the EULA, Racism: people are actually making excuses for the person who blatantly broke that rule?!
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4786
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:47:00 -
[1912] - Quote
Take the common American ladder.
Is it covered in placards until you can barely see aluminum because Americans are too stupid to be expected to climb a few steps up and then a few steps down without putting themselves in the hospital? (Well, maybe. But that's a different thread)
Those placards are there to prevent legal liability in a country where reputations are made on finding that little loophole by one bottom feeding maggot (read: lawyer) for a massive payday.
Many of us enjoy fighting other players. Our UI set-ups reflect this. You can barely see the actual game with all the windows open. Now picture your screen instead covered in warning messages and flashy bits because CCP has to cover it's legal ass after you lot got your whiny way and forced them into writing specific rules to cover every little thing.
Think and use the brain you were born with before you go off the deep end as is so common in here.
Bottom line is that after you force CCP into screwing themselves, you can just go do the same thing to another game company. They don't have that option. They need to nip this **** in the bud and that's what they did.
Boo hoo for you.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:56:00 -
[1913] - Quote
Danalee wrote:For the one thing that is clear in the EULA, Racism: people are actually making excuses for the person who blatantly broke that rule?! D.
Do quote one person excusing racism on this thread or any related thread.
Just one quote. |
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 18:01:00 -
[1914] - Quote
Danalee wrote:I don't compare anything related to eve, teamspeak or even hurt feelings to anything related to the holocaust because that would be SICK, can't imagine who thinks like that.... Oh wait. Thanks. D.
Really? Just after you quoted Niemoller's famous quote about the Holocaust to make your point about how you disapprove of CCP's enforcement actions?
Inconsistent much?
|
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 18:21:00 -
[1915] - Quote
A funny comment seen on the Steam forums:
Quote: Option 3
Hands off MY Sociopath Simulator...
Players create content and should be allowed to without interference from CCP!
Otherwise this isn't a sandbox, just a poorly disguised themepark.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/8500/discussions/0/558751813276565710/
Sounds like many of the Erotica 1 apologists... |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110679
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 18:32:00 -
[1916] - Quote
CCP is even Tweeting guidance for those who think the whole thing is unfair to Ero1:
CCP Customer Service GÇÅ@CCP_Help 8m
#EveOnline Tip: Most payment methods default to a reoccurring subscription plan. If you want to cancel this see: http://bit.ly/1gQdWoQ "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 18:35:00 -
[1917] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:So freedom of speech is supported up until someone's feelings get hurt, then its hate speech and pitchfork time? Pretty much sum it up from a CCP and pansy CSM perspective?
Please indicate where in the EULA or TOS "freedom of speech" is offered?
You clearly do not understand what the phrase means, so stop throwing it around.
I'll give you a hint: you have no freedom of speech in a privately owned and operated venue, such as a non-public internet forum or an online game. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 18:37:00 -
[1918] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:CCP is even Tweeting guidance for those who think the whole thing is unfair to Ero1: CCP Customer Service GÇÅ@CCP_Help 8m #EveOnline Tip: Most payment methods default to a reoccurring subscription plan. If you want to cancel this see: http://bit.ly/1gQdWoQ
Not me, I resubscribed when I heard the good news. My last post before I quietly left is here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4319490#post4319490
I wasn't expecting to come back but CCP did good with this one in a surprisingly short span of time. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2148
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 18:38:00 -
[1919] - Quote
This from a similar thread.
If CCP whacked Ero for what is commonly termed, 'gross misconduct' then it would mean that his behaviour was considered to be so beyond the pale that he forfeited the right to a warning. This is not a signature. |
Haytrid
PubLlc Relatlons The Suicidal Spaceship Squadron
31
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 19:20:00 -
[1920] - Quote
IF Ero1 was banned for out-of-game harassment related to Sohkar and as a result of the "evidence" of the public recording of the bonus room then Sohkar should also be banned for the same reason as a result of the same piece of evidence and that ban should happen right now. . . today.
If Sohkar is not banned than the Ero1 ban should be reversed and warnings issued publicly about any wrongdoings observed by CCP so that there is a clear sense of what was done wrong and that *that action* specifically will not be tolerated in the future or at what point *that action* became unacceptable.
I am personally in the camp that no harassment transpired here whatsoever, towards Sohkar at least, and branding the bonus room as "harassment" is a very dangerous definition and will most certainly continue us down the path of limiting our Eve "freedoms".
This is just another step in destroying the unique Eve Online experience and replacing it with generic rubbish found in all other MMO's.
Seven year player here and I know nobody cares but I am seriously considering un-subbing both of my accounts in protest over this.
Enjoy your new theme park Ripard Teg and followers. Some few years from now you'll be discussing why Eve is such boring spoon-fed mush and you'll wonder at whatever happened to the player inspired emergent game-play. You'll still be in denial that it was you, this issue, and your continuing agenda that is to blame. |
|
Bael Malefic
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
61
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 19:23:00 -
[1921] - Quote
Haytrid wrote:IF Ero1 was banned for out-of-game harassment related to Sohkar and as a result of the "evidence" of the public recording of the bonus room then Sohkar should also be banned for the same reason as a result of the same piece of evidence and that ban should happen right now. . . today.
If Sohkar is not banned than the Ero1 ban should be reversed and warnings issued publicly about any wrongdoings observed by CCP so that there is a clear sense of what was done wrong and that *that action* specifically will not be tolerated in the future or at what point *that action* became unacceptable.
I am personally in the camp that no harassment transpired here whatsoever, towards Sohkar at least, and branding the bonus room as "harassment" is a very dangerous definition and will most certainly continue us down the path of limiting our Eve "freedoms".
This is just another step in destroying the unique Eve Online experience and replacing it with generic rubbish found in all other MMO's.
Seven year player here and I know nobody cares but I am seriously considering un-subbing both of my accounts in protest over this.
Enjoy your new theme park Ripard Teg and followers. Some few years from now you'll be discussing why Eve is such boring spoon-fed mush and you'll wonder at whatever happened to the player inspired emergent game-play. You'll still be in denial that it was you, this issue, and your continuing agenda that is to blame.
Yes, EVE is dying. You know where the door is.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4795
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 19:26:00 -
[1922] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Haytrid wrote:IF Ero1 was banned for out-of-game harassment related to Sohkar and as a result of the "evidence" of the public recording of the bonus room then Sohkar should also be banned for the same reason as a result of the same piece of evidence and that ban should happen right now. . . today.
If Sohkar is not banned than the Ero1 ban should be reversed and warnings issued publicly about any wrongdoings observed by CCP so that there is a clear sense of what was done wrong and that *that action* specifically will not be tolerated in the future or at what point *that action* became unacceptable.
I am personally in the camp that no harassment transpired here whatsoever, towards Sohkar at least, and branding the bonus room as "harassment" is a very dangerous definition and will most certainly continue us down the path of limiting our Eve "freedoms".
This is just another step in destroying the unique Eve Online experience and replacing it with generic rubbish found in all other MMO's.
Seven year player here and I know nobody cares but I am seriously considering un-subbing both of my accounts in protest over this.
Enjoy your new theme park Ripard Teg and followers. Some few years from now you'll be discussing why Eve is such boring spoon-fed mush and you'll wonder at whatever happened to the player inspired emergent game-play. You'll still be in denial that it was you, this issue, and your continuing agenda that is to blame. Yes, EVE is dying. You know where the door is.
I don't often post just to echo, but pretty much this.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
529
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 19:47:00 -
[1923] - Quote
Just my two cents:
Anyone who participates in "harassment" such as the bonus room quandary has done so VOLUNTARILY under the premise they would become spacerich. Anyone contacting Ero for the purposes of their own ISK advancement has also done VOLUNTARILY.
I have not seen an answer to this:
If someone voluntarily participates, how is anyone, including anyone from CCP, going to pull a harassment card? Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
Uncle Joe Stalin
FSP-AK Corporation
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 19:54:00 -
[1924] - Quote
This is real life crime. This is fraud...
It was very popular "game" in Russia in 80's and 90's. And many many organizers were jailed.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4800
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:16:00 -
[1925] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:
I have not seen an answer to this:
You are typing words, so I know you are probably not blind. I can think of no other explanation as to how you missed the many DEV and CSM answers to this.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
838
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:20:00 -
[1926] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Danalee wrote:
For the one thing that is clear in the EULA, Racism: people are actually making excuses for the person who blatantly broke that rule?!
Do quote one person excusing racism on this thread or any related thread. Just one quote.
You jest, yes?
Every other post in the jester thread is someone saying but they pushed him to the breakingpoint and normally he isn't a racist biggot but when you ask him to sing songs and read text he is under extreme stress and that's what the problem was, it wasn't his fault, etc...
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
530
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:23:00 -
[1927] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Leto Thule wrote:
I have not seen an answer to this:
You are typing words, so I know you are probably not blind. I can think of no other explanation as to how you missed the many DEV and CSM answers to this. Mr Epeen
I must be blind. In case I have missed it (hey, maybe so, its a huge thread, in which case youll have to pardon my mistake), nothing has been posted as to how someone can volunteer to be harassed, and how in fact that is anyone's problem but the idiot that volunteered. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
838
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:23:00 -
[1928] - Quote
Bael Malefic wrote:Danalee wrote:
I don't compare anything related to eve, teamspeak or even hurt feelings to anything related to the holocaust because that would be SICK, can't imagine who thinks like that.... Oh wait.
Thanks.
Really? Just after you quoted Niemoller's famous quote about the Holocaust to make your point about how you disapprove of CCP's enforcement actions? Inconsistent much?
Inconsistent? How? If I say... For example: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. ^^ I DID NOT JUST SAY YOU ARE A STUPID HORSE. An ass, maybe but using quotes and sayings is a means to an end and not to be taken literally.
No thanks.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
531
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:30:00 -
[1929] - Quote
tasman devil wrote: Now... what happens to our two lovebirds?
Namely: Erotica1 - who has committed harassment of bannable to life proportions Sohkar - who -although enraged beyond measure at that point- posted life threats on the voice chat
So what now? To punish them both (Ero1 - life ban, Soh - 30 days ban) would be a hard but justifiable course of action.
Woah... I did miss a bit. This gem in particular.
From what I understand here:
Ero made a jackass out of some jackass. Ha ha. This = life ban.
Sohkar made a DEATH THREAT and that only gets a 30 day ban?? WTF? Youll have to explain that one. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
olan2005
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
77
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:33:00 -
[1930] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The slippery slope argument slips both ways.
Without intervention, bad conduct will slide into worse conduct.
It is exactly to prevent that sliding, that action must be taken.
And what has prompted that action, is a group of people "sliding" down that side of the mountain into a place that the game doesn't want to be.
Erotica1, with his extreme and protracted actions, has jeapordised all of our freedom. Its exactly people that abuse the levity of existing laws, that force society to implement stricter ones, whereas before, the existing ones where adequate.
This is no hero of freedom we are talking about here. Its someone who irresponsibly abused the freedom we had, to the result that now all of our freedom is under closer scrutiny and tighter parameters.
see above post for some common sense |
|
Deeone
Deadspace Zombie Factory
9
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:36:00 -
[1931] - Quote
Just gotta throw this out that in the real world to harass a person you have to keep trying to harass them after they tell you to stop. Under this apparent policy any unwanted contact could be construed as harassment. Basically contrary to everything that EvE says it represents your poor decisions to give all your stuff away then stay in a ts3 channel for 2 hours will have no consequences for you even if you personally understand and learned from what happened, and didn't even quit playing eve. I thought we were doing this for player retention yet this victim who by all you guys definition should never want to play eve again is still playing, and seeing more fallout from people white knighting him when he doesn't even want it. SO to summarize harassment is any in game contact for more then like 5 mins and its not harassment to launch a complaint about this on a blog(cough cough when a petition failed) when you're not personally involved and the victim doesn't even want your white knighting. Never mind the guy got kicked out of his current corp after the scandal went public. Its funny the white knights are gonna drive the guy from the game when the scammers couldn't. But you know its all for the greater good....... |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
839
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:37:00 -
[1932] - Quote
olan2005 wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:The slippery slope argument slips both ways.
Without intervention, bad conduct will slide into worse conduct.
It is exactly to prevent that sliding, that action must be taken.
And what has prompted that action, is a group of people "sliding" down that side of the mountain into a place that the game doesn't want to be.
Erotica1, with his extreme and protracted actions, has jeapordised all of our freedom. Its exactly people that abuse the levity of existing laws, that force society to implement stricter ones, whereas before, the existing ones where adequate.
This is no hero of freedom we are talking about here. Its someone who irresponsibly abused the freedom we had, to the result that now all of our freedom is under closer scrutiny and tighter parameters. see above post for some common sense
Another player who's seen the light. Without intervention, bad conduct will slide into worse conduct, it is exactly to prevent that sliding, that action must be taken. A Warning must be given by CCP to the player sliding the wrong way so he can take his little sled and march right back up the hill where all of the righteous tramme... Careb.... Fellow players live in harmony!
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4806
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 21:25:00 -
[1933] - Quote
Why do people keep equating stupid with carebear in this thread?
I remember back when Erotica1 made bonus room victims spam our in-boxes to announce their upcoming degradation, I received mails from some pretty prominent PVP players.
It's not what you choose as a career that makes you stupid. It's that you think you can get something for nothing in this game. And from what I've seen there is no shortage of stupid right across the spectrum here.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
122
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 22:59:00 -
[1934] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Leto Thule wrote:
I have not seen an answer to this:
You are typing words, so I know you are probably not blind. I can think of no other explanation as to how you missed the many DEV and CSM answers to this. Mr Epeen I must be blind. In case I have missed it (hey, maybe so, its a huge thread, in which case youll have to pardon my mistake), nothing has been posted as to how someone can volunteer to be harassed, and how in fact that is anyone's problem but the idiot that volunteered. Apparently, once you become emotionally unstable, you're not responsible for your own actions and it's up to other players to make decisions for you. If you make them wrong, BAN. WTF did I just read? |
Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
122
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 23:00:00 -
[1935] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Why do people keep equating stupid with carebear in this thread? Because the two have a history of walking hand-in-hand. WTF did I just read? |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
783
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 23:43:00 -
[1936] - Quote
Danalee wrote:You sure have a weird mayo fetish, I'd have that checked if I was you I'm glad you realize that it is a weird mayo fetish. Now you just need to direct this to Erotica 1, as he's the one that has made his victims smother themselves in mayo for his own viewing pleasure. Or did you not know this ?
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1225
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 00:08:00 -
[1937] - Quote
Dex Lysia wrote:This has been a sad week for Eve. Recent events have brought to the foreground some of the most distasteful corners of Eve. The activities of the people in these corners are not related to Eve-defined PvP such as ship, market or sovereignty combat. They are in a different league to the harmless, impersonal invitations to send all your ISK to someone in the idiotic hope that they will return more than you sent. A number of people, myself included, have expressed their concern at these distasteful activities and requested that CCP distance themselves from these sick few. Unfortunately this number didn't seem to be big enough to swing CCP and all we got was a carefully worded statement of no change of the status quo. They consciously chose to support the sick few by their lack of positive action. I had hoped that this would have been an excellent opportunity to take some positive action and attempt to clean up the media's representation of the game's reputation. Instead they chose to reinforce the existing image of a place of freedom for the worst elements of gaming society.
The media representation of the game's (bad) reputation is the only thing bringing in more subs. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
550
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 02:40:00 -
[1938] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:tasman devil wrote: Now... what happens to our two lovebirds?
Namely: Erotica1 - who has committed harassment of bannable to life proportions Sohkar - who -although enraged beyond measure at that point- posted life threats on the voice chat
So what now? To punish them both (Ero1 - life ban, Soh - 30 days ban) would be a hard but justifiable course of action.
Woah... I did miss a bit. This gem in particular. From what I understand here: Ero made a jackass out of some jackass. Ha ha. This = life ban. Sohkar made a DEATH THREAT and that only gets a 30 day ban?? WTF? Youll have to explain that one.
Thats what they gave Mittens, Im thinking thats why 30 days
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
550
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 02:42:00 -
[1939] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Why do people keep equating stupid with carebear in this thread? I remember back when Erotica1 made bonus room victims spam our in-boxes to announce their upcoming degradation, I received mails from some pretty prominent PVP players. It's not what you choose as a career that makes you stupid. It's that you think you can get something for nothing in this game. And from what I've seen there is no shortage of stupid right across the spectrum here. Mr Epeen
So you knew this was going on. Hoe many petitions did YOU fill out? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
72
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 04:27:00 -
[1940] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The slippery slope argument slips both ways.
Without intervention, bad conduct will slide into worse conduct.
It is exactly to prevent that sliding, that action must be taken.
And what has prompted that action, is a group of people "sliding" down that side of the mountain into a place that the game doesn't want to be.
Erotica1, with his extreme and protracted actions, has jeapordised all of our freedom. Its exactly people that abuse the levity of existing laws, that force society to implement stricter ones, whereas before, the existing ones where adequate.
This is no hero of freedom we are talking about here. Its someone who irresponsibly abused the freedom we had, to the result that now all of our freedom is under closer scrutiny and tighter parameters.
But, it was allowed until a certain CSM representative went ballistic and posted it all over the internet? If what erotica was doing was so heinous, why wasn't he banned last year when this started?
Let me ask you this... If ripard didn't write his blog and hold CCP hostage do you think Erotica would have been banned for this? Or would anyone would have even cared? I think we both know the answer to those questions >.>
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
|
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
306
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 04:48:00 -
[1941] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:
But, it was allowed until a certain CSM representative went ballistic and posted it all over the internet? If what erotica was doing was so heinous, why wasn't he banned last year when this started?
Let me ask you this... If ripard didn't write his blog and hold CCP hostage do you think Erotica would have been banned for this? Or would anyone would have even cared? I think we both know the answer to those questions >.>
Except that Erotica 1 was the one who posted it "all over internet" and CCP was not immediately aware of it. Or can you prove that they were aware of what goes inside the bonus room right from the beginning? I do think that Erotica 1 would have been eventually banned (assuming he is banned), but you guys wouldn't have had messenger to shoot.
Now, get over your grief over your loved one's apparent banning and play the game. As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
161
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 04:54:00 -
[1942] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:
But, it was allowed until a certain CSM representative went ballistic and posted it all over the internet? If what erotica was doing was so heinous, why wasn't he banned last year when this started?
Let me ask you this... If ripard didn't write his blog and hold CCP hostage do you think Erotica would have been banned for this? Or would anyone would have even cared? I think we both know the answer to those questions >.>
Except that Erotica 1 was the one who posted it "all over internet" and CCP was not immediately aware of it. Or can you prove that they were aware of what goes inside the bonus room right from the beginning? I do think that Erotica 1 would have been eventually banned (assuming he is banned), but you guys wouldn't have had messenger to shoot. Now, get over your grief over your loved one's apparent banning and play the game.
Umm yeah, it was stated somewhere that CCP has known about the bonus room since last November.
BEING AN ******* IS NOT A CRIME! I support un-banning Erotica1
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
72
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 04:57:00 -
[1943] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:
But, it was allowed until a certain CSM representative went ballistic and posted it all over the internet? If what erotica was doing was so heinous, why wasn't he banned last year when this started?
Let me ask you this... If ripard didn't write his blog and hold CCP hostage do you think Erotica would have been banned for this? Or would anyone would have even cared? I think we both know the answer to those questions >.>
Except that Erotica 1 was the one who posted it "all over internet" and CCP was not immediately aware of it. Or can you prove that they were aware of what goes inside the bonus room right from the beginning? I do think that Erotica 1 would have been eventually banned (assuming he is banned), but you guys wouldn't have had messenger to shoot. Now, get over your grief over your loved one's apparent banning and play the game.
Are you telling me that no one from CCP reads the minerbumper blog? Are you also telling me that CCP wasn't reading all the locked posts in C&P over the last 6 months that had recordings posted on them? If they really didn't know should we put ISD upto task for not forwarding those posts and this 'grave injustice' to CCP?
You don't really believe that do you? Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
854
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:13:00 -
[1944] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Danalee wrote:You sure have a weird mayo fetish, I'd have that checked if I was you I'm glad you realize that it is a weird mayo fetish and a behavior that requires professional attention. Now you just need to direct this to Erotica 1, as he's the one that has made his victims smother themselves in mayo for his own viewing pleasure. Or did you not know this ? Proof or stfu, please.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
556
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:18:00 -
[1945] - Quote
Anna Karhunen wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:
But, it was allowed until a certain CSM representative went ballistic and posted it all over the internet? If what erotica was doing was so heinous, why wasn't he banned last year when this started?
Let me ask you this... If ripard didn't write his blog and hold CCP hostage do you think Erotica would have been banned for this? Or would anyone would have even cared? I think we both know the answer to those questions >.>
Except that Erotica 1 was the one who posted it "all over internet" and CCP was not immediately aware of it. Or can you prove that they were aware of what goes inside the bonus room right from the beginning? I do think that Erotica 1 would have been eventually banned (assuming he is banned), but you guys wouldn't have had messenger to shoot. Now, get over your grief over your loved one's apparent banning and play the game.
bullshit, CCP knew about the BRs from NOVEMBER
but yeah keep pretending PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
556
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:22:00 -
[1946] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Anna Karhunen wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:
But, it was allowed until a certain CSM representative went ballistic and posted it all over the internet? If what erotica was doing was so heinous, why wasn't he banned last year when this started?
Let me ask you this... If ripard didn't write his blog and hold CCP hostage do you think Erotica would have been banned for this? Or would anyone would have even cared? I think we both know the answer to those questions >.>
Except that Erotica 1 was the one who posted it "all over internet" and CCP was not immediately aware of it. Or can you prove that they were aware of what goes inside the bonus room right from the beginning? I do think that Erotica 1 would have been eventually banned (assuming he is banned), but you guys wouldn't have had messenger to shoot. Now, get over your grief over your loved one's apparent banning and play the game. Are you telling me that no one from CCP reads the minerbumper blog? Are you also telling me that CCP wasn't reading all the locked posts in C&P over the last 6 months that had recordings posted on them? If they really didn't know should we put ISD upto task for not forwarding those posts and this 'grave injustice' to CCP? You don't really believe that do you?
http://funkybacon.blogspot.ca/2014/03/e1sohkar-getting-full-story-in-35-hours.html?showComment=1396230831597
Quote:0:46 Joined by Jaschar Verge, the the CEO of Dark Aether Operations. He tells us the story about how he heard the Bonus Room recording back when it was covered by James 315 in February on Minerbumping, and decided to take sohkar under his wing. sohkar was in his corp for nearly 3 weeks until being removed for his own protection. sohkar is free to rejoin whenever he thinks he'll be safe again in a player corp.
Quote:2:06 Back to Eve. Allegedly CCP has known about the bonus room since at least November. sohkar's bonus room was well publicized on Minerbumping.com a month ago, was not a secret. The victim says he was over it, and got on with his life. 1 month later, CCP suddenly "gives fucks" when Ripard Teg whips less than 500 people into a frenzy on a threadnought on Eve-O.
But yeah they "didnt know" Apparently the important ppl in CCP are complete idiots PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
556
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:25:00 -
[1947] - Quote
I like the closing as well:
This keeps going back to E1 specifically, and that's one of the problems I have here Mynnna. My stance here has little do do with E1, and everything to do with the next step after this, and the next step after that. If this is where it stops, and the line is CLEARLY drawn here, that's CCPs prerogative. I'm not doing a "Free E1 campaign". He's banned, there's no reversal coming nor would I ask for one.
For 11 years CCP has not acted against any player when CCP logs have shown no wrong doing. That has now changed.
Let me toss you a loaded question. Let's say we're chatting in Eve, and I say "Hey Mynnna, my hands are getting tired. Let's pop over to my TS3 server and talk about this."
I'm in there with you, maybe a couple other people. I make a recording of it, and then put it up on soundcloud. People listen to it and are outraged at you for what transpired, I blog about it, a threadnought appears.
But here's the rub: You come out on the forums in the threadnought afterwards and claim you were framed. "That's not me," you say. Other people claiming to be on the server at the time say it WAS you. They were there. Eve logs show us chatting amicably, and me suggesting we move to TS3. CCP has no way to confirm that the TS3 conversation on soundcloud is the one that happened at that time. They can't confirm I didn't doctor the recording. But it sounds like you. You didn't think to record the session yourself, so you have nothing but your word that you didn't do whatever it is we say you did.
Now, you're part of Goonswarm, so I would imagine your friends would have your back in this, and the counter smear could get ugly and result in nothing more than a locked thread, some warnings are given and nothing more comes of it. Maybe I get DDOSed a few times, obviously by one of your fellows, but I can't prove who it was so nothing happens there either.
Suppose for a minute though that you don't have many friends in Eve. Everyone has already made up their mind that you're guilty. Your supporters in that threadnought are few and far between. What then?
THAT is where I'm afraid we're going here, and ANY steps taken in that general direction are what I'm opposed to. -DJ FunkyBacon PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
75
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:34:00 -
[1948] - Quote
Intresting, when I get home from work i'll have to listen to that. Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1061
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:56:00 -
[1949] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Leto Thule wrote:tasman devil wrote: Now... what happens to our two lovebirds?
Namely: Erotica1 - who has committed harassment of bannable to life proportions Sohkar - who -although enraged beyond measure at that point- posted life threats on the voice chat
So what now? To punish them both (Ero1 - life ban, Soh - 30 days ban) would be a hard but justifiable course of action.
Woah... I did miss a bit. This gem in particular. From what I understand here: Ero made a jackass out of some jackass. Ha ha. This = life ban. Sohkar made a DEATH THREAT and that only gets a 30 day ban?? WTF? Youll have to explain that one. Thats what they gave Mittens, Im thinking thats why 30 days
Yeah was 30 days.
Actually there is one interesting part that you can "kind of" relate the two of these incidents together.
A lot of people here have mentioned that Sohkar is over this, and no longer upset over the matter. And that it doesn't make sense to punish Erotica 1 when the person who was allegedly bullied doesn't even see it as bullying.
That happened in the Mittani incident as well.
The individual who The Mittani shamed at Fan Fest and asked everybody to harass didn't even know that the entire issue had gone beyond his private interaction with Mittani in the initial EveMAIL until Mittani had already received his ban and other players began sending the dude EveMAILS.
He even expressed that he had already moved beyond it and didn't see why everybody was making a big deal about it. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4827
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:59:00 -
[1950] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Why do people keep equating stupid with carebear in this thread? I remember back when Erotica1 made bonus room victims spam our in-boxes to announce their upcoming degradation, I received mails from some pretty prominent PVP players. It's not what you choose as a career that makes you stupid. It's that you think you can get something for nothing in this game. And from what I've seen there is no shortage of stupid right across the spectrum here. Mr Epeen So you knew this was going on. Hoe many petitions did YOU fill out?
Just one.
That's the rule. One petition per issue.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
|
Salvos Rhoska
949
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 06:43:00 -
[1951] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:The slippery slope argument slips both ways.
Without intervention, bad conduct will slide into worse conduct.
It is exactly to prevent that sliding, that action must be taken.
And what has prompted that action, is a group of people "sliding" down that side of the mountain into a place that the game doesn't want to be.
Erotica1, with his extreme and protracted actions, has jeapordised all of our freedom. Its exactly people that abuse the levity of existing laws, that force society to implement stricter ones, whereas before, the existing ones where adequate.
This is no hero of freedom we are talking about here. Its someone who irresponsibly abused the freedom we had, to the result that now all of our freedom is under closer scrutiny and tighter parameters. But, it was allowed until a certain CSM representative went ballistic and posted it all over the internet? If what erotica was doing was so heinous, why wasn't he banned last year when this started? Let me ask you this... If ripard didn't write his blog and hold CCP hostage do you think Erotica would have been banned for this? Or would anyone would have even cared? I think we both know the answer to those questions >.>
Lol plz.
I made a police report about online libel and defamation a year ago about a person who was doing such towards me in a setting where I am identifiable IRL. I was interviewed by the police and provided evidence in the form of screenshots, dates and logs. The cop who interviewed me and I, sat and managed to identify the person from pics in his site thatshowed his band, and from the band name written on their drums, which we then checked the bands site for and identified the singers name. After that, all it requires is for the cops to knock on his door and corroborate that it is infact the same person.
Only last month, around a year later, did the prosecutor call me and ask if I still wanted them taken to court. I replied yes and to my knowledge it is now being decided in court. Im not suing for damages, so to my knowledge I will never know the outcome. Its between the perpetrator and the State now.
Some things take time.
As to whether any of this would have happened if Ripard hadnt written his blog, that is pure speculation and irrelevant for two reasons: 1) Ripard Teg can write whatever he wants on his blog. Erotica1 is a virtual entity that exists only in a game. You cant defame a virtual alias which has no legal status, and furthermore that would require the blog tohave lied, which to my reading, it does not. Ripard Tegs blog is covered by normal freedom of expression. If he had mentioned at any point Erotica1s real legal identity, that would have been a different matter, but he has not, so it is not.
2)Your chicken and egg argument falls on the point, that if Erotica1 had not been doing this stuff, to such a degree, for so long, NONE of this would have followed.
CSMs have stated they are satisfied Erotica1 was given due process, and their support of the CCP statement is written into the statement itself.
Its ironic, and transparent, to the extreme, that the same people who tried to claim Erotica1 was the subject of a witch-hunt, are now trying to instigate a witch-hunt themselves on Ripard Teg.
It wont work :) ------------ |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1226
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 07:55:00 -
[1952] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:tasman devil wrote: Now... what happens to our two lovebirds?
Namely: Erotica1 - who has committed harassment of bannable to life proportions Sohkar - who -although enraged beyond measure at that point- posted life threats on the voice chat
So what now? To punish them both (Ero1 - life ban, Soh - 30 days ban) would be a hard but justifiable course of action.
Woah... I did miss a bit. This gem in particular. From what I understand here: Ero made a jackass out of some jackass. Ha ha. This = life ban. Sohkar made a DEATH THREAT and that only gets a 30 day ban?? WTF? Youll have to explain that one.
I am not aware that sokhar has been banned, I might have missed that. Can you link a source please, if sokhar has been banned then I for one am happy as both participants have been punished for their actions.
All we need to do now is punish ripard teg by not voting for him in future csm elections, I don't want anyone crusading on my behalf, especially when his machinations are all centred on removing political opponents such as erotica1 who was about to stand as a csm candidate. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
76
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:03:00 -
[1953] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:The slippery slope argument slips both ways.
Without intervention, bad conduct will slide into worse conduct.
It is exactly to prevent that sliding, that action must be taken.
And what has prompted that action, is a group of people "sliding" down that side of the mountain into a place that the game doesn't want to be.
Erotica1, with his extreme and protracted actions, has jeapordised all of our freedom. Its exactly people that abuse the levity of existing laws, that force society to implement stricter ones, whereas before, the existing ones where adequate.
This is no hero of freedom we are talking about here. Its someone who irresponsibly abused the freedom we had, to the result that now all of our freedom is under closer scrutiny and tighter parameters. But, it was allowed until a certain CSM representative went ballistic and posted it all over the internet? If what erotica was doing was so heinous, why wasn't he banned last year when this started? Let me ask you this... If ripard didn't write his blog and hold CCP hostage do you think Erotica would have been banned for this? Or would anyone would have even cared? I think we both know the answer to those questions >.> Lol plz. Last year,I made a police report about online libel and defamation about a person who was doing such towards me in a setting where I am identifiable IRL. I was interviewed by the police and provided evidence in the form of screenshots, dates and logs. The detective who interviewed me and I, sat and managed to identify the person from pics in his site thatshowed his band, and from the band name written on their drums, which we then checked the bands site for and identified the singers name. After that, all it requires is for the cops to knock on his door and corroborate that it is infact the same person. Only last month, around a year later, did the prosecutor call me and ask if I still wanted them taken to court. I replied yes and to my knowledge it is now being decided in court. Im not suing for damages, so to my knowledge I will never know the outcome. Its between the perpetrator and the State now. Some things take time. As to whether any of this would have happened if Ripard hadnt written his blog, that is pure speculation and irrelevant for two reasons: 1) Ripard Teg can write whatever he wants on his blog. Erotica1 is a virtual entity that exists only in a game. You cant defame a virtual alias which has no legal status, and furthermore that would require the blog tohave lied, which to my reading, it does not. Ripard Tegs blog is covered by normal freedom of expression. If he had mentioned at any point Erotica1s real legal identity, that would have been a different matter, but he has not, so it is not. Furthermore Ripard Teg did not post even once in the threadnaught. The thread is only representative of those who participated in it. Nor did the threadnaught occur on Ripards site, it occured here, on CCPs pages. 2)Your chicken and egg argument falls on the point, that if Erotica1 had not been doing this stuff, to such a degree, for so long, NONE of this would have followed. CSMs have stated they are satisfied Erotica1 was given due process, and their support of the CCP statement is written into the statement itself. Its ironic, and transparent, to the extreme, that the same people who tried to claim Erotica1 was the subject of a witch-hunt, are now trying to instigate a witch-hunt themselves on Ripard Teg. It wont work :)
Internet lawyering much? Tell me once where I or anyone else in this thread or the threadnaught said that Ripard was attempting to reveal the true identity of erotica? In adition where did I ever say anything about ripard posting in the threadnaught or even how its relevant to this argument?
But of course ripard has a totally good reason for not responding to sohkar's attempts at communication with him. Right? I mean if he doesn't have anything to hide why isn't he talking? Why not respond to the mail that sohkar sent him? Why not post to defend his position?
If you don't believe ripard is hiding anything, I hear the Brooklyn bridge is for sale. I'll sell it to you for 10B isk. Interested?
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
954
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:09:00 -
[1954] - Quote
You lost. HTFU and deal with it :) ------------ |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4838
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:09:00 -
[1955] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote: All we need to do now is punish ripard teg by not voting for him in future csm elections, I don't want anyone crusading on my behalf, especially when his machinations are all centred on removing political opponents such as erotica1 who was about to stand as a csm candidate.
Erotica1 made two failed attempts at running for the CSM. The first he was shamed out of and the second he tried to skirt the rules (surprise).
I will vote for Ripard if the spitball I shoot at my monitor happens to stick to his name. The CSM and their little political machinations are not worth the time it takes to read their phony campaign platforms. Not one of them believes in anything but a free Icelandic vacation. I've never liked the concept and the reason it was created, but being raised with a politician as a father I will still vote on principal. And since a dart would break my monitor, I'll fire a nice big spitball and vote for who it sticks to.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
77
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:19:00 -
[1956] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:You lost. HTFU and deal with it :)
That's a copout and you know it. Well? What is ripard hiding? He's obviously hiding something since he isn't talking? But then I hear that elected officials have no hidden agendas and aren't corrupt. Amirite?
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
165
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:22:00 -
[1957] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:There's no legal precedent anywhere for everyone getting a second chance to commit every offense, not even for minors. I don't know why anyone would expect CCP to change their TOS in that manner. Some mud you drag CCP's name through is too muddy, and some offenders don't get second chances.
WRONG. Sokhar is getting a second chance. He spouted racial slurs and even threatened to KILL someone in real life yet he's walking away from this without a ban.
If there's not equal justice, there's NO justice. THAT is my problem with this fiasco.
BEING AN ******* IS NOT A CRIME! I support un-banning Erotica1
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4838
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:23:00 -
[1958] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:You lost. HTFU and deal with it :) That's a copout and you know it. Well? What is ripard hiding? He's obviously hiding something since he isn't talking? But then I hear that elected officials have no hidden agendas and aren't corrupt. Amirite?
Or maybe he just said his piece and doesn't give a **** what anybody thinks about it.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1061
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:24:00 -
[1959] - Quote
Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet. |
Salvos Rhoska
954
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:24:00 -
[1960] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:That's a copout and you know it. Well? What is ripard hiding? He's obviously hiding something since he isn't talking? But then I hear that elected officials have no hidden agendas and aren't corrupt. Amirite?
CSM have stated they are satisfied that Erotica1 received due process and consideration. Their support of the released statement, is written into it.
:) ------------ |
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
165
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 08:35:00 -
[1961] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:[The CSM and their little political machinations are not worth the time it takes to read their phony campaign platforms. Not one of them believes in anything but a free Icelandic vacation. Mr Epeen
Well will wonders never cease.... I'm actually gonna have to give you a +1 for that.
Cheers
BEING AN ******* IS NOT A CRIME! I support un-banning Erotica1
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4841
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:01:00 -
[1962] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Well will wonders never cease.... I'm actually gonna have to give you a +1 for that.
Cheers
Oh you crazy kids. We'll be on the same side of an issue probably more than not. For example Ranger 1 comes to mind. We've been hurling insults one month and then swearing our undying love for each other the next. For years.
Such is the ebb and flow of the EVE-O forums.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2149
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:18:00 -
[1963] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet.
Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument This is not a signature. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2890
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:18:00 -
[1964] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet.
That monument should have an expired equine on it *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
166
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:21:00 -
[1965] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet. Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument
I don't feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, I think they acted (by choosing NOT to act) unfairly with regard to Sohkar. Basically, the message CCP is sending the community is that it's perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs and even to threaten to MURDER someone IRL provided the target of your DEATH THREATS is either sufficiently unpopular or has been deemed to have sufficiently pissed you off, first. Either ban them both or ban neither.
BEING AN ******* IS NOT A CRIME! I support un-banning Erotica1
|
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
255
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:35:00 -
[1966] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet. Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument I don't feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, I think they acted (by choosing NOT to act) unfairly with regard to Sohkar. Basically, the message CCP is sending the community is that it's perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs and even to threaten to MURDER someone IRL provided the target of your DEATH THREATS is either sufficiently unpopular or has been deemed to have sufficiently pissed you off, first. Either ban them both or ban neither.
Heard he is banned for 30days.
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Anni Hil-Ator
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:37:00 -
[1967] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
That's your right and good luck to you, but it's down right silly to quit a game because some dude who wasn't you lost some virtual things to a trickster type then made a fool of himself trying to get his stuff back. No one died here (despite the threats) and the so called victim is cool with everything.
If this sort of thing gets to you then you decision to be a denizen of the internet in any form might be kind of suspect. Life is harsh.
Surely you understand that this isn't why PinkPanter is quitting. They're quitting due to a matter of principle related to freedom within the game and, on a related note, people being arbitrarily banned for vague reasons.
Someone correct me if I've gotten the names and motives mixed up in this thread... but I really don't think I have. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
167
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:44:00 -
[1968] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet. Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument I don't feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, I think they acted (by choosing NOT to act) unfairly with regard to Sohkar. Basically, the message CCP is sending the community is that it's perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs and even to threaten to MURDER someone IRL provided the target of your DEATH THREATS is either sufficiently unpopular or has been deemed to have sufficiently pissed you off, first. Either ban them both or ban neither. Heard he is banned for 30days.
My understanding is that someone suggested a 30 day ban for him, and a poster that followed misunderstood and said "oh, so only a 30 day ban for sohkar but a perma ban for E1?" I'd like to know if I'm wrong about this.
CCP, I realize you have a policy of not discussing moderation and disciplinary action against players, but I honestly think you should make an exception to that rule in this case. Every little thing you do or don't do regarding this fiasco is sending a message to the community, and your messages need to be CLEAR. We need to know what IS and IS NOT acceptable.
You took 1 step in this direction by laying out that it is not acceptable to continue to pick at someone you've already pissed off (which I think is ridiculous, but hey, it's your game,) NOW you need to be clear on if it is or is not acceptable to issue real life death threats and racial slurs against someone if they have first broken the rules and picked on you or hurt your wee little feelings too much.
Where is THAT line drawn?
We need to know.
BEING AN ******* IS NOT A CRIME! I support un-banning Erotica1
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2891
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 09:53:00 -
[1969] - Quote
Im being splattered in liquidised "lasagne" everytime I step into this thread
(wee joke there for UK listeners) *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
255
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 10:02:00 -
[1970] - Quote
@Sabat: maybe you are right about the 30day ban :)
But what rules you talk about? Guidelines? Wtf? I want caos. I want you to fear about every action you take. Make it the ultimate eve expirience :p Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
168
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 10:10:00 -
[1971] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:@Sabat: maybe you are right about the 30day ban :)
But what rules you talk about? Guidelines? Wtf? I want caos. I want you to fear about every action you take. Make it the ultimate eve expirience :p
YES! I agree 100% It was the advertised lack of restrictions that first drew me to this game. I want it to be the Wild Wild West of outer space.
Sadly, CCP has shown that this is not what they're going to be providing for us. That being the case, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If E1 can get permabanned for violating the TOS by way of continuing to pick on someone even after that person has "reached the point of losing control over their emotions" (thats a direct quote from CCP Falcon) then goddamnit Sohkar should be banned for violating the TOS by way of using racial slurs AND MAKING RL DEATH THREATS against E1.
Honestly, I would think the racism and death threats would be more egregious an offense than super-trolling someone. I mean c'mon CCP, really?
BEING AN ******* IS NOT A CRIME! I support un-banning Erotica1
|
Salvos Rhoska
956
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 10:17:00 -
[1972] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
CCP, I realize you have a policy of not discussing moderation and disciplinary action against players, but I honestly think you should make an exception to that rule in this case.
Nope.jpg ------------ |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
77
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 10:20:00 -
[1973] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet. Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument I don't feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, I think they acted (by choosing NOT to act) unfairly with regard to Sohkar. Basically, the message CCP is sending the community is that it's perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs and even to threaten to MURDER someone IRL provided the target of your DEATH THREATS is either sufficiently unpopular or has been deemed to have sufficiently pissed you off, first. Either ban them both or ban neither. Heard he is banned for 30days.
proof and source?
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
256
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 10:20:00 -
[1974] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:arabella blood wrote:@Sabat: maybe you are right about the 30day ban :)
But what rules you talk about? Guidelines? Wtf? I want caos. I want you to fear about every action you take. Make it the ultimate eve expirience :p YES! I agree 100% It was the advertised lack of restrictions that first drew me to this game. I want it to be the Wild Wild West of outer space. Sadly, CCP has shown that this is not what they're going to be providing for us. That being the case, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If E1 can get permabanned for violating the TOS by way of continuing to pick on someone even after that person has "reached the point of losing control over their emotions" (thats a direct quote from CCP Falcon) then goddamnit Sohkar should be banned for violating the TOS by way of using racial slurs AND MAKING RL DEATH THREATS against E1. Honestly, I would think the racism and death threats would be more egregious an offense than super-trolling someone. I mean c'mon CCP, really?
If we look at it from a pure law view. According to my country's laws Sohkar might be found guilty, but its almost 100% his sentence will be reduced. Even from non law view, it would be seem fair. To me at least. In my language there is a saying that tranlates to "a person in agony should not be judged" - it is 2000 years old.
But it might all boil down to this: did anyone even make a ticket about it? Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
361
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 10:30:00 -
[1975] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:arabella blood wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet. Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument I don't feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, I think they acted (by choosing NOT to act) unfairly with regard to Sohkar. Basically, the message CCP is sending the community is that it's perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs and even to threaten to MURDER someone IRL provided the target of your DEATH THREATS is either sufficiently unpopular or has been deemed to have sufficiently pissed you off, first. Either ban them both or ban neither. Heard he is banned for 30days. My understanding is that someone suggested a 30 day ban for him, and a poster that followed misunderstood and said "oh, so only a 30 day ban for sohkar but a perma ban for E1?" I'd like to know if I'm wrong about this. CCP, I realize you have a policy of not discussing moderation and disciplinary action against players, but I honestly think you should make an exception to that rule in this case. Every little thing you do or don't do regarding this fiasco is sending a message to the community, and your messages need to be CLEAR. We need to know what IS and IS NOT acceptable. You took 1 step in this direction by laying out that it is not acceptable to continue to pick at someone you've already pissed off (which I think is ridiculous, but hey, it's your game,) NOW you need to be clear on if it is or is not acceptable to issue real life death threats and racial slurs against someone if they have first broken the rules and picked on you or hurt your wee little feelings too much. Where is THAT line drawn? We need to know.
Look at it like this, what Erotica1 did is no different to anything done in the meta game. There is no difference between this and hellcamping an alliance into a station while trolling them on forums. Its no different to continually wardeccing a corp or alliance then trolling them about it. Erotica1 is a strange individual - probably a bit of a sociopath - but didn't do anything hundreds of other people do every day on EVE - he scammed and then trolled, albeit on Teamspeak rather than ingame chat or on a forum . He just happened to find the right person to fall for the entire 'experience'.
What CCP did here was set a precedence. There is an invisible line which can be crossed when scamming and trolling which is only known to them. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
168
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 10:37:00 -
[1976] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:
If we look at it from a pure law view. According to my country's laws Sohkar might be found guilty, but its almost 100% his sentence will be reduced.
Here in the U.S. the laws very from state to state, but in the state in which I reside, as well as in the majority of states, the mere act of threatening to inflict bodily harm on someone is considered to be the crime of "assault," and you can be put in jail and heavily fined for it. I've seen it happen many many times, as I was once a bail bondsman for several years, and I dealt with it firsthand.
Quote: In my language there is a saying that tranlates to "a person in agony should not be judged" - it is 2000 years old.
In my country we have a saying, "Equal Justice Under the Law." That means that the same rules apply to everyone. Here, had Sohkar been taken to court regarding his assault on E1, he would be found guilty, because "he just wouldn't stop picking at me" is not considered a legitimate excuse for threatening to murder someone, nor should it be imo.
Quote: But it might all boil down to this: did anyone even make a ticket about it?
Not only did Sohkar not make a ticket, he has freely admitted in a public forum that he too should be banned for his violation of the TOS.
BEING AN ******* IS NOT A CRIME! I support un-banning Erotica1
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
168
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 10:40:00 -
[1977] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote: Look at it like this, what Erotica1 did is no different to anything done in the meta game. There is no difference between this and hellcamping an alliance into a station while trolling them on forums. Its no different to continually wardeccing a corp or alliance then trolling them about it. Erotica1 is a strange individual - probably a bit of a sociopath - but didn't do anything hundreds of other people do every day on EVE - he scammed and then trolled, albeit on Teamspeak rather than ingame chat or on a forum . He just happened to find the right person to fall for the entire 'experience'.
Agreed.
Quote: What CCP did here was set a precedence. There is an invisible line which can be crossed when scamming and trolling which is only known to them.
What CCP really needs to realize is that they have set TWO precedences. The first you just said, the second is this: It's acceptable to use racist slurs and even issue threats of real life bodily harm and murder if the person youre threatening is unpopular with the community or has excessively trolled you or otherwise made you, and I quote, "reach the point of losing control over your emotions."
Mindfracking someone? -Not acceptable Threatening to MURDER someone after theyve mindfracked you? -A OK
BEING AN ******* IS NOT A CRIME! I support un-banning Erotica1
|
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1062
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:04:00 -
[1978] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:arabella blood wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet. Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument I don't feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, I think they acted (by choosing NOT to act) unfairly with regard to Sohkar. Basically, the message CCP is sending the community is that it's perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs and even to threaten to MURDER someone IRL provided the target of your DEATH THREATS is either sufficiently unpopular or has been deemed to have sufficiently pissed you off, first. Either ban them both or ban neither. Heard he is banned for 30days. proof and source?
Curious as well. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2150
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:09:00 -
[1979] - Quote
I would suggest that when it comes to what, if any punishment CCP did or should meet out to Sohkar, one needs to be mindful of the order of events with the unfortunate event.
Ero and crew provoked Sohkar to such an extent that CCP (apparently) ganked Ero for such actions.
That Sohkar reacted badly and used, well, not very nice expressions and name calling was a result of being so badly goaded by Ero that CCP have cancelled their business relationship with him.
Of course, Sohkar, with hindsight wishes he had not reacted so badly, but, it is worth stressing this, he reacted.
This is not a signature. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
170
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:12:00 -
[1980] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I would suggest that when it comes to what, if any punishment CCP did or should meet out to Sohkar, one needs to be mindful of the order of events with the unfortunate event.
Ero and crew provoked Sohkar to such an extent that CCP (apparently) ganked Ero for such actions.
That Sohkar reacted badly and used, well, not very nice expressions and name calling was a result of being so badly goaded by Ero that CCP have cancelled their business relationship with him.
Of course, Sohkar, with hindsight wishes he had not reacted so badly, but, it is worth stressing this, he reacted.
Where I come from, if I were to press assault charges against you for threatening to murder me, the "he pissed me off really really bad" defense would not be accepted by the court, and you would go to jail and pay a hefty fine.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
|
Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
20
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:21:00 -
[1981] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:You lost. HTFU and deal with it :) That's a copout and you know it. Well? What is ripard hiding? He's obviously hiding something since he isn't talking? But then I hear that elected officials have no hidden agendas and aren't corrupt. Amirite? Or maybe he just said his piece and doesn't give a **** what anybody thinks about it.
Yeah, and that's a great thing to have in an elected official, who's meant to represent the concerns and opinions of the community in general.
Not just "say your piece, and not give a ****". |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
257
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:22:00 -
[1982] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I would suggest that when it comes to what, if any punishment CCP did or should meet out to Sohkar, one needs to be mindful of the order of events with the unfortunate event.
Ero and crew provoked Sohkar to such an extent that CCP (apparently) ganked Ero for such actions.
That Sohkar reacted badly and used, well, not very nice expressions and name calling was a result of being so badly goaded by Ero that CCP have cancelled their business relationship with him.
Of course, Sohkar, with hindsight wishes he had not reacted so badly, but, it is worth stressing this, he reacted.
Where I come from, if I were to press assault charges against you for threatening to murder me, the "he pissed me off really really bad" defense would not be accepted by the court, and you would go to jail and pay a hefty fine.
Go watch "12 angry men" again ;) especially the part when he screams 'i am going to kill you"...
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
257
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:27:00 -
[1983] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Not only did Sohkar not make a ticket, he has freely admitted in a public forum that he too should be banned for his violation of the TOS.
You guys keep beating that dead horse all the time. The truth is no one buys it, not CCP and not anyone with half a brain. Time to get over it, im out :) Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
257
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:31:00 -
[1984] - Quote
Reizak StormFury wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:You lost. HTFU and deal with it :) That's a copout and you know it. Well? What is ripard hiding? He's obviously hiding something since he isn't talking? But then I hear that elected officials have no hidden agendas and aren't corrupt. Amirite? Or maybe he just said his piece and doesn't give a **** what anybody thinks about it. Yeah, and that's a great thing to have in an elected official, who's meant to represent the concerns and opinions of the community in general. Not just "say your piece, and not give a ****".
He is not runing to next CSM elections. That was his farewell gift to the community o/
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:42:00 -
[1985] - Quote
Only problem is that the entire thing is rigged. Scammers have discretionary power over the outcome. They can make the contender sing or POD him indefinitely or make other stupid requests as real life photos or any other crazy thing that may cross the mind. So the question is not if the contender will break but rather when.
Oh yeah, sometimes somebody wins. Giving 10 bil back after you hustled 100 bil is affordable and also buys publicity and legitimacy. If the winner is a close buddy or alt of .... did i need say more. Plus the bonus room with Shokar is the most shameful display of human interaction and emerges in the worst type of game-play I ever witness in a MMORPG.
CCP did the right thing in laying the hammer IMHO. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
172
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:48:00 -
[1986] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Only problem is that the entire thing is rigged. Scammers have discretionary power over the outcome. They can make the contender sing or POD him indefinitely or make other stupid requests as real life photos or any other crazy thing that may cross the mind. So the question is not if the contender will break but rather when.
Oh yeah, sometimes somebody wins. Giving 10 bil back after you hustled 100 bil is affordable and also buys publicity and legitimacy. If the winner is a close buddy or alt of .... did i need say more. Plus the bonus room with Shokar is the most shameful display of human interaction and emerges in the worst type of game-play I ever witness in a MMORPG.
CCP did the right thing in laying the hammer IMHO.
Do you agree that Sokhar should also be banned for making threats of rl violence and murder against another player, as well as his use of racial slurs? Both are violations of the TOS. If you ban one you have to ban the other.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2893
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:49:00 -
[1987] - Quote
arabella blood wrote: Go watch "12 angry men" again ;) especially the part when he screams 'i am going to kill you"...
Movies are real and we should follow their example as to how to live our real lives *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
172
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 11:52:00 -
[1988] - Quote
Eve is real.
WOOT! FIRST!
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
257
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:23:00 -
[1989] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:If you ban one you have to ban the other.
This is false, and also not valid in RL. Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:24:00 -
[1990] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Do you agree that Sokhar should also be banned for making threats of rl violence and murder against another player, as well as his use of racial slurs? Both are violations of the TOS. If you ban one you have to ban the other.
NO! There are extenuating circumstances that should be applied when ruling about Shokar's behavior. He did cross the line but it is not very hard to asses his state of mind (irrational discourse) . He should be warned and maybe banned for a few days so he gets time off to realize the gravity of his behavior even if he didn't rationally meant it. |
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
175
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:24:00 -
[1991] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:If you ban one you have to ban the other.
This is false, and also not valid in RL.
Elaborate, please.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
175
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:27:00 -
[1992] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Do you agree that Sokhar should also be banned for making threats of rl violence and murder against another player, as well as his use of racial slurs? Both are violations of the TOS. If you ban one you have to ban the other.
NO! There are extenuating circumstances that should be applied when ruling about Shokar's behavior. He did cross the line but it is not very hard to asses his state of mind (irrational discourse) . He should be warned and maybe banned for a few days so he gets time off to realize the gravity of his behavior even if he didn't rationally meant it.
I could maybe live with that, although I'm not comfortable with the idea that crossing the line is accepted or dealt with less harshly simply because someone else was, in essence, trolling you, even if to an extreme degree. Once you sink to your antagonists level you become no better than him.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2899
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:27:00 -
[1993] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Do you agree that Sokhar should also be banned for making threats of rl violence and murder against another player, as well as his use of racial slurs? Both are violations of the TOS. If you ban one you have to ban the other.
NO! There are extenuating circumstances that should be applied when ruling about Shokar's behavior. He did cross the line but it is not very hard to asses his state of mind (irrational discourse) . He should be warned and maybe banned for a few days so he gets time off to realize the gravity of his behavior even if he didn't rationally meant it.
The community have already taken action in their own way
Anything further would actually be more than he deserved.
Not that that would have ANY bearing on anythign CCP decided *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
257
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:32:00 -
[1994] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:arabella blood wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:If you ban one you have to ban the other.
This is false, and also not valid in RL. Elaborate, please.
Its pretty long actually. So much proffesional literature written about it that i had to study in law school and there is no simple way to explain.
I will try with to explane with an extreme example: 4 people are covicted of murder. 1 is an old person, has cancer and is 90 years old. 2 is a young lady, pregnant with a baby, first offence. 3 is a criminal, 2nd murder for him. 4 is a guy who were threatend and extorted to commit the murder.
All were convicted. Should they all gate same jail time?
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Echo Belly
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:32:00 -
[1995] - Quote
It seems CCP have their very own definition of "harassment".
In Erotica 1's case it was nothing but adults agreeing to make fools of themselves for video game money. And for some of them it obviously helped them to become less foolish and greedy in their real lives.
It's unbelievable some ****** can call out a player and get him banned for fake reasons. I'm deeply, deeply disappointed by CCP's behaviour on this case.
Erotica 1 is such an iconic figure in EvE, i can't believe the people in charge dared to ban him. By this decision they chose to show us, the players, that there is no room for fun and laughs in this game. And it is instead blind greed and hate that should get you where you want. How insulting. How sad.
Reopen the case and lift the ban. This cannot not be a big misunderstanding.
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
110702
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:38:00 -
[1996] - Quote
New today:
NJ judge's ruling may spur more schools to sue bullies, families
Parents of 11 students can be named as defendants in school-bullying suit, judge rules
"Superior Court Judge Yolanda Ciccone ruled earlier this month that districts being sued by victims of harassment and bullying can bring the bullies and their parents into the case to share any potential financial liability." "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
175
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:45:00 -
[1997] - Quote
arabella blood wrote: I will try with to explane with an extreme example: 4 people are covicted of murder. 1 is an old person, has cancer and is 90 years old. 2 is a young lady, pregnant with a baby, first offence. 3 is a criminal, 2nd murder for him. 4 is a guy who were threatend and extorted to commit the murder.
All were convicted. Should they all gate same jail time?
I think so.
1 - So your'e old and dying. Thats a license to commit murder, or to suffer lesser consequences than anyone else who commits murder? I think not.
2 - "But your honor, this is the first time I've killed someone! Don't I get a break?" Please. As for the pregnancy, if thats an excuse or cause for leniency, then any wicked woman who wanted to commit murder could effectively lessen the consequences she faces by getting herself pregnant first. That's downright diabolical. I cant believe anyone would really think that could possibly be used as a mitigating circumstance.
3 - Should have been put to death or locked up for life the first time. The "justice" system that set him free to kill again bears some responsibility for the 2nd death, imo.
4 - I'm a LITTLE more sympathetic, but the bottom line is that coercion or not, he still CHOSE to go thru with the act. It's only defensible if his own life were in danger, in which case he wouldn't justly be convicted anyway.
So yeah, equal time for equal crimes, I say. Moral relativism is a contributing factor to the decline of civilization and a big factor in the culture of irresponsibility in which we now find ourselves living. People aren't held accountable for their own actions often enough anymore. If you live in the U.S. as I do, take a good look around and tell me how that's working out for us?
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
175
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:47:00 -
[1998] - Quote
It's also illegal to threaten somebody with bodily harm. That doesnt just bear a financial cost, it gets you JAIL TIME.
So what's your point?
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:49:00 -
[1999] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
I could maybe live with that, although I'm not comfortable with the idea that crossing the line is accepted or dealt with less harshly simply because someone else was, in essence, trolling you, even if to an extreme degree. Once you sink to your antagonists level you become no better than him.
All people have breaking points and our banned scam-er knew that. That's what he aimed for in order to get a reason to discard Shokar's bonus room claim. People tend to believe that the bonus room was nothing more then a way to get giggles but I don't hear the main scam-er giggle that much, do you? Don't fool yourself, the main thrust is seizing someone else's assets and giving it a flavor of legitimacy, nothing more. Now ask yourself, should we punish Shokar harshly for delivering what was expected of him?
You know it was more then trolling, don't you? Virtual assets agreed, but they have value for the player that invested time in getting them and that is RL time we are talking about. "Value" rarely has an intrinsic attribute if we are talking about it in human context ;). |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2899
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 12:51:00 -
[2000] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote: Where I come from...
Dunno if you get it but when you said that I thought of this
http://www.standard.co.uk/incoming/article8466005.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/Jeremy+Kyle+Show.jpg *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
|
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
257
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:11:00 -
[2001] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:arabella blood wrote: I will try with to explane with an extreme example: 4 people are covicted of murder. 1 is an old person, has cancer and is 90 years old. 2 is a young lady, pregnant with a baby, first offence. 3 is a criminal, 2nd murder for him. 4 is a guy who were threatend and extorted to commit the murder.
All were convicted. Should they all gate same jail time?
I think so. 1 - So your'e old and dying. Thats a license to commit murder, or to suffer lesser consequences than anyone else who commits murder? I think not. 2 - "But your honor, this is the first time I've killed someone! Don't I get a break?" Please. As for the pregnancy, if thats an excuse or cause for leniency, then any wicked woman who wanted to commit murder could effectively lessen the consequences she faces by getting herself pregnant first. That's downright diabolical. I cant believe anyone would really think that could possibly be used as a mitigating circumstance. 3 - Should have been put to death or locked up for life the first time. The "justice" system that set him free to kill again bears some responsibility for the 2nd death, imo. 4 - I'm a LITTLE more sympathetic, but the bottom line is that coercion or not, he still CHOSE to go thru with the act. It's only defensible if his own life were in danger, in which case he wouldn't justly be convicted anyway. So yeah, equal time for equal crimes, I say. Moral relativism is a contributing factor to the decline of civilization and a big factor in the culture of irresponsibility in which we now find ourselves living. People aren't held accountable for their own actions often enough anymore. If you live in the U.S. as I do, take a good look around and tell me how that's working out for us?
Thats pretty much sums up the difference in our views. What i tryed to describe is a tradition and a practice as old as humans started walking the earth. I know it does not make it perfect, or right, but it is working up till now and perhaps the "lesser evil" of all other choices.
I do believe in it. I like the idea of "everyone is equal before the law" - and in my view all 4 murderers were equal when they got convicted. After that starts the sentecing process - when each individual get sentenced according to their own circumstances.
Mind that there are so much more depth in this subject besides the basics we are discussing, and many more circumstances, rules, guidelines etc play a role in both the conviction and sentencing.
I wonder why didnt you ask for bigger punishment for n# 3.
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
537
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:29:00 -
[2002] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Leto Thule wrote:
I have not seen an answer to this:
You are typing words, so I know you are probably not blind. I can think of no other explanation as to how you missed the many DEV and CSM answers to this. Mr Epeen I must be blind. In case I have missed it (hey, maybe so, its a huge thread, in which case youll have to pardon my mistake), nothing has been posted as to how someone can volunteer to be harassed, and how in fact that is anyone's problem but the idiot that volunteered. If you volunteer to be waterboarded, is it still torture?
Yes. But its not harrasment. The asshat could have disconnected at any time. Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
537
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:40:00 -
[2003] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Leto Thule wrote:tasman devil wrote: Now... what happens to our two lovebirds?
Namely: Erotica1 - who has committed harassment of bannable to life proportions Sohkar - who -although enraged beyond measure at that point- posted life threats on the voice chat
So what now? To punish them both (Ero1 - life ban, Soh - 30 days ban) would be a hard but justifiable course of action.
Woah... I did miss a bit. This gem in particular. From what I understand here: Ero made a jackass out of some jackass. Ha ha. This = life ban. Sohkar made a DEATH THREAT and that only gets a 30 day ban?? WTF? Youll have to explain that one. I am not aware that sokhar has been banned, I might have missed that. Can you link a source please, if sokhar has been banned then I for one am happy as both participants have been punished for their actions. All we need to do now is punish ripard teg by not voting for him in future csm elections, I don't want anyone crusading on my behalf, especially when his machinations are all centred on removing political opponents such as erotica1 who was about to stand as a csm candidate. He wasnt banned. It was a discussion on possible consequences.
Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
179
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:42:00 -
[2004] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote: All people have breaking points and our banned scam-er knew that.
And this is precisely why Sokhars murderous threats are such a serious matter. As you say, he was at his breaking point. It is when people are in this hyper-emotional state that they are most apt to actually commit an act of violence, as they are no longer thinking rationally. It is at this point that one's threats of violence should be taken most seriously.
Had he threatened ME like that, and he lived within a couple hundred miles of me, I'd have his ass arrested, drive that far to show up in court to press charges, and believe you me, he would be convicted. I know this for a fact because in my younger days I was a bail bondsman for several years, I've seen it. Being verbally taunted, even mercilessly and extremely, is not an accepted defense, especially when Sokhar had the power to stop the taunts by just walking away at any time. His ass could sit in jail for (in this state) up to 11 months, 29 days, with a couple of years probation afterwards, plus fines and court costs. His only hope would be to get a sympathetic judge who might give a lesser sentence out of pity for the ordeal he agreed to be subjected to (because, as the judge would be aware, he could have simply walked away at any time.)
Quote: That's what he aimed for in order to get a reason to discard Shokar's bonus room claim. People tend to believe that the bonus room was nothing more then a way to get giggles but I don't hear the main scam-er giggle that much, do you? Don't fool yourself, the main thrust is seizing someone else's assets and giving it a flavor of legitimacy, nothing more. Now ask yourself, should we punish Shokar harshly for delivering what was expected of him?
Of course it's about seizing assets, it's an elaborate scam. And yes, we should punish Sokhar for violating the TOS just like we're punishing E1 for violating the TOS. Hell, what E1 (who I will reiterate I think is a douchebag) did wasn't even illegal, though it may be morally reprehensible. Sokhar actually committed a crime, at least it is under the laws where I live. But it's not CCP's job to enforce the law, of course. However, he should be held accountable for violating the TOS just like anybody else should be held accountable for violating the TOS.
Quote: You know it was more then trolling, don't you? Virtual assets agreed, but they have value for the player that invested time in getting them and that is RL time we are talking about. "Value" rarely has an intrinsic attribute if we are talking about it in human context ;).
I understand the value of our pixelated assets. My time is valuable to me, too, and I directly tie the value of my isk and assets to the time it takes me to acquire that much isk. I get it. That said, it was a combination of naivete (which is excusable) and greed that kept Sokhar in the hellish Bonus Room. He wanted to get a free quintupling of his assets, he wanted it so badly that he was willing to endure the button-pushing. He should have just left before he lost control of himself, and it is precisely because he CHOSE not to leave before reaching that state that he should be held accountable for his violations of the TOS that took place while he was in that state.
So yeah, E1 is a douche, and possibly even a true sociopath (and I do mean that.) He violated the TOS. Ban him. Good. Sokhar also violated the TOS. As my sig says, either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
179
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:45:00 -
[2005] - Quote
Teehee! +1
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2902
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:47:00 -
[2006] - Quote
Ive got a solution!
Ban everyone who gets scammed! That way, we dont enable either scammers OR the stupid! *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
179
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:54:00 -
[2007] - Quote
arabella blood wrote: I wonder why didnt you ask for bigger punishment for n# 3.
Guess I should have been a little more specific. I think he already should have been serving life in prison for the 1st murder, therefore, I believe, well, that he shoudl get life. They all should, imo. I personally believe that life in prison without the possibility of parole is a far worse punishment than being put to death. I know if faced with and given the choice, I'd choose death. The old guy is the one that effectively beats the system, he's going to die before suffering any significant length of time, anyway. He "gets away with it" moreso than the other 3.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2902
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:56:00 -
[2008] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote: Guess I should have been a little more specific. I think he already should have been serving life in prison for the 1st murder, therefore, I believe, well, that he shoudl get life. They all should, imo. I personally believe that life in prison without the possibility of parole is a far worse punishment than being put to death. I know if faced with and given the choice, I'd choose death.
So.... justice isnt just, and thats ok? Is that what you said? The punishment should outweigh the crime?
(And no, I dont believe in the death penalty) *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
179
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:56:00 -
[2009] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Ive got a solution!
Ban everyone who gets scammed! That way, we dont enable either scammers OR the stupid!
Aww cmon, Ramona, you're better than resorting to straw man arguments. I am disappoint
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
179
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 13:57:00 -
[2010] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote: Guess I should have been a little more specific. I think he already should have been serving life in prison for the 1st murder, therefore, I believe, well, that he shoudl get life. They all should, imo. I personally believe that life in prison without the possibility of parole is a far worse punishment than being put to death. I know if faced with and given the choice, I'd choose death.
So.... justice isnt just, and thats ok? Is that what you said? The punishment should outweigh the crime? (And no, I dont believe in the death penalty)
In what way does the punishment outweigh the crime?
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2903
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 14:00:00 -
[2011] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote: Guess I should have been a little more specific. I think he already should have been serving life in prison for the 1st murder, therefore, I believe, well, that he shoudl get life. They all should, imo. I personally believe that life in prison without the possibility of parole is a far worse punishment than being put to death. I know if faced with and given the choice, I'd choose death.
So.... justice isnt just, and thats ok? Is that what you said? The punishment should outweigh the crime? (And no, I dont believe in the death penalty) In what way does the punishment outweigh the crime?
You said that life in prison was worse than being put to death
The crime was putting someone to death
Therefore, the punishment is a worse fate than the crime was.
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
362
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 14:10:00 -
[2012] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
Do you agree that Sokhar should also be banned for making threats of rl violence and murder against another player, as well as his use of racial slurs? Both are violations of the TOS. If you ban one you have to ban the other.
NO! There are extenuating circumstances that should be applied when ruling about Shokar's behavior. He did cross the line but it is not very hard to asses his state of mind (irrational discourse) . He should be warned and maybe banned for a few days so he gets time off to realize the gravity of his behavior even if he didn't rationally meant it.
So its OK to be a racist bigot if you're distraught? |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
179
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 14:12:00 -
[2013] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote: Guess I should have been a little more specific. I think he already should have been serving life in prison for the 1st murder, therefore, I believe, well, that he shoudl get life. They all should, imo. I personally believe that life in prison without the possibility of parole is a far worse punishment than being put to death. I know if faced with and given the choice, I'd choose death.
So.... justice isnt just, and thats ok? Is that what you said? The punishment should outweigh the crime? (And no, I dont believe in the death penalty) In what way does the punishment outweigh the crime? You said that life in prison was worse than being put to death The crime was putting someone to death Therefore, the punishment is a worse fate than the crime was.
BOOM! I have to agree. You're right.
That said, (and here we go off on a tangent, but what the hell) I am pretty much opposed to the death penalty anyway, soooo, whats the most just course of action? I suppose, were it possible to determine how many more years the murder victim would have lived, we could incarcerate the murderer for that period of time... idk, still somehow doesn't seem right that the murderer, who would then be released, still gets to enjoy life for a while, while the other person was deprived of that.
Idk, but I do concede your point. You got meh!
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2905
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 14:18:00 -
[2014] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote: BOOM! I have to agree. You're right.
That said, (and here we go off on a tangent, but what the hell) I am pretty much opposed to the death penalty anyway, soooo, whats the most just course of action? I suppose, were it possible to determine how many more years the murder victim would have lived, we could incarcerate the murderer for that period of time... idk, still somehow doesn't seem right that the murderer, who would then be released, still gets to enjoy life for a while, while the other person was deprived of that.
Idk, but I do concede your point. You got meh!
HUGS! Friendship IS magic!
And as for the rest of your post up there, well thats the moral dilemma that has befuddled progressive thinkers regarding dealing with real issues of anti-social behaviour for the last 150 years or so.
I come from a place where criminals can plead political angles on their crimes and got put in special parts of the prisons with others of their creed, and when peace were hammered out all got let out again, so Im utterly unsure what the choice is.
But killing is not justice for killing.
This is nothing to do with the OP and Im sorry for wandering off in a bright yellow tangent *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
arabella blood
Revenant Tactical
257
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 14:27:00 -
[2015] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote: Guess I should have been a little more specific. I think he already should have been serving life in prison for the 1st murder, therefore, I believe, well, that he shoudl get life. They all should, imo. I personally believe that life in prison without the possibility of parole is a far worse punishment than being put to death. I know if faced with and given the choice, I'd choose death.
So.... justice isnt just, and thats ok? Is that what you said? The punishment should outweigh the crime? (And no, I dont believe in the death penalty) In what way does the punishment outweigh the crime? You said that life in prison was worse than being put to death The crime was putting someone to death Therefore, the punishment is a worse fate than the crime was. BOOM! I have to agree. You're right. That said, (and here we go off on a tangent, but what the hell) I am pretty much opposed to the death penalty anyway, soooo, whats the most just course of action? I suppose, were it possible to determine how many more years the murder victim would have lived, we could incarcerate the murderer for that period of time... idk, still somehow doesn't seem right that the murderer, who would then be released, still gets to enjoy life for a while, while the other person was deprived of that. Idk, but I do concede your point. You got meh!
I like your system. It will save a lot of money on judges paychecks. We are going to put an automated machine for judging and sentecing. You will input the data you have on the crime and the machine will decide guilty or not guilty. Then just print the same sentence for all. Hek, we could use 12 machines, each will give slightly preferred value for different aspects, and make the machines vote until they agree on 1 answer. Then just sentence - thats the easy part...
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2907
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 14:32:00 -
[2016] - Quote
arabella blood wrote: Hek, we could use 12 machines, each will give slightly preferred value for different aspects, and make the machines vote until they agree on 1 answer. Then just sentence - thats the easy part...
Youd just have to make the machines of low intellect and completely unfamiliar with both the legal system and any particular facts offered in the case. Oh and also completely biased in random directions too *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 15:48:00 -
[2017] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote: All people have breaking points and our banned scam-er knew that.
And this is precisely why Sokhars murderous threats are such a serious matter. As you say, he was at his breaking point. It is when people are in this hyper-emotional state that they are most apt to actually commit an act of violence, as they are no longer thinking rationally. It is at this point that one's threats of violence should be taken most seriously. Had he threatened ME like that, and he lived within a couple hundred miles of me, I'd have his ass arrested, drive that far to show up in court to press charges, and believe you me, he would be convicted. I know this for a fact because in my younger days I was a bail bondsman for several years, I've seen it. Being verbally taunted, even mercilessly and extremely, is not an accepted defense, especially when Sokhar had the power to stop the taunts by just walking away at any time. His ass could sit in jail for (in this state) up to 11 months, 29 days, with a couple of years probation afterwards, plus fines and court costs. His only hope would be to get a sympathetic judge who might give a lesser sentence out of pity for the ordeal he agreed to be subjected to (because, as the judge would be aware, he could have simply walked away at any time.) Quote: That's what he aimed for in order to get a reason to discard Shokar's bonus room claim. People tend to believe that the bonus room was nothing more then a way to get giggles but I don't hear the main scam-er giggle that much, do you? Don't fool yourself, the main thrust is seizing someone else's assets and giving it a flavor of legitimacy, nothing more. Now ask yourself, should we punish Shokar harshly for delivering what was expected of him?
Of course it's about seizing assets, it's an elaborate scam. And yes, we should punish Sokhar for violating the TOS just like we're punishing E1 for violating the TOS. Hell, what E1 (who I will reiterate I think is a douchebag) did wasn't even illegal, though it may be morally reprehensible. Sokhar actually committed a crime, at least it is under the laws where I live. But it's not CCP's job to enforce the law, of course. However, he should be held accountable for violating the TOS just like anybody else should be held accountable for violating the TOS. Quote: You know it was more then trolling, don't you? Virtual assets agreed, but they have value for the player that invested time in getting them and that is RL time we are talking about. "Value" rarely has an intrinsic attribute if we are talking about it in human context ;).
I understand the value of our pixelated assets. My time is valuable to me, too, and I directly tie the value of my isk and assets to the time it takes me to acquire that much isk. I get it. That said, it was a combination of naivete (which is excusable) and greed that kept Sokhar in the hellish Bonus Room. He wanted to get a free quintupling of his assets, he wanted it so badly that he was willing to endure the button-pushing. He should have just left before he lost control of himself, and it is precisely because he CHOSE not to leave before reaching that state that he should be held accountable for his violations of the TOS that took place while he was in that state. So yeah, E1 is a douche, and possibly even a true sociopath (and I do mean that.) He violated the TOS. Ban him. Good. Sokhar also violated the TOS. As my sig says, either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
No, he didn't. He spew empty threats at a virtual avatar while in an induced irrational state. Despite your black and white view of the justice system a judge would have took account for that. Leaving was not a costless option, and you know that. Meanwhile the guy calmed down, learned his lesson and I understand he regrets his behavior. In the same time I didn't hear any words of apology from the other party. They don't seem to understand where they crossed the line, well, maybe they can't as normal logic might elude them. All their efforts are aimed at making such behavior acceptable.
P.S.
knobber Jobbler wrote:
So its OK to be a racist bigot if you're distraught?
NO, it is not. Already said that in the post you are quoting. Why do you cherry pick? |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4872
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 15:51:00 -
[2018] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:arabella blood wrote: Go watch "12 angry men" again ;) especially the part when he screams 'i am going to kill you"...
Movies are real and we should follow their example as to how to live our real lives
Might be too early for me but to fully grasp what I just read, but a video game? It ain't real either.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
188
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 16:00:00 -
[2019] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:
No, he didn't. He spew empty threats at a virtual avatar while in an induced irrational state.
Are you saying no he didn't violate the TOS? If so, you are mistaken. You are not allowed to make rl threats against other players.
Quote: Despite your black and white view of the justice system a judge would have took account for that.
I sincerely believe that a judge would look at that, yes, and he would also look at the fact that he was only in an induced irrational state because he chose to stick around and take the abuse when he was free to leave at any time. Therein lies the counter to that defense.
Quote: Leaving was not a costless option, and you know that.
Does it matter that it was he who put himself in that position to begin with, out of a motivation of greed?
Quote: Meanwhile the guy calmed down, learned his lesson and I understand he regrets his behavior.
Oh, I guess as long as he's sorry for what he did it's ok. I'll have to try that one out if I ever find myself in court.
Quote: In the same time I didn't hear any words of apology from the other party. They don't seem to understand where they crossed the line, well, maybe they can't as normal logic might elude them.
The other party is likely a sociopath. I don't defend anything he did, but I expect the rules to be enforced uniformly, otherwise we have chaos, and not the good kind we enjoy in Eve.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 16:23:00 -
[2020] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:
Meanwhile the guy calmed down, learned his lesson and I understand he regrets his behavior.
Oh, I guess as long as he's sorry for what he did it's ok. I'll have to try that one out if I ever find myself in court.
I hope you won't get that chance but surely you agree that honestly regretting a mistake beats being stuck up and act like you did nothing wrong. It means you learned something. Also greed is not a punishable treat, in fact our modern economical pattern/system is based on it (sad truth in my opinion but ...). But let's agree to disagree. You say that both parties are equally to blame hence they should receive equal punishment. I don't agree with that as I think being a douche-bag on purpose is worse then being an irrational fool. Fools may learn, douche-bags will refuse too. Fly dangerous and have fun. Over and out. |
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
869
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 17:15:00 -
[2021] - Quote
You folks need to get of the Erotica1 ****. Whats done is done. The issue is what precedent CCP has established.
Which is cave to mob mentality. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
196
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 17:18:00 -
[2022] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:You folks need to get of the Erotica1 ****. Whats done is done. The issue is what precedent CCP has established.
Which is cave to mob mentality.
And to give a free pass to racial slurs and threats of real-life violence and murder so long as it's because the other guy pissed you off.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4879
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 17:24:00 -
[2023] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:You folks need to get of the Erotica1 ****. Whats done is done. The issue is what precedent CCP has established.
Which is cave to mob mentality. And to give a free pass to racial slurs and threats of real-life violence and murder so long as it's because the other guy pissed you off.
I'll let Malcanis answer that one:
Malcanis wrote:You want CCP to ban erotica1 for deliberately tormenting a player until he loses control, and then also ban the player for losing control? Is that right?
Really, you should be relieved that Sokhar hasn't been banned; it demonstrates that the GMs are capable of understanding context, and they will empathise with the circumstances, and they can tell the difference between something said in the heat of the moment and something said with actual intent. So you can relax and not worry about being banned for a trivial or flippant statement on private comms, of whatever other ridiculous scenarios are being bandied about.
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
197
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 17:48:00 -
[2024] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Malcanis wrote:You want CCP to ban erotica1 for deliberately tormenting a player until he loses control, and then also ban the player for losing control? Is that right?
Oh, it's that simple? I'd bet money that, were Sokhar to go on trial for the criminal offense (at least where I live) of assault by way of threatening physical violence, and he used that excuse ("he tormented me until I lost control") the judge or prosecutor would ask the simple question, "why didn't you just leave when you began to feel that you were losing control?"
You guys need to grow up and learn the concept of personal responsibility. Sokhar not only violated the TOS, he commited what is considered a criminal offense in many places.
Quote: Really, you should be relieved that Sokhar hasn't been banned; it demonstrates that the GMs are capable of understanding context, and they will empathise with the circumstances,
All it demonstrates to me is that it's ok to violate the TOS as long as your victim is unpopular.
Quote: and they can tell the difference between something said in the heat of the moment and something said with actual intent. So you can relax and not worry about being banned for a trivial or flippant statement on private comms, of whatever other ridiculous scenarios are being bandied about.
Cuz we all know now that CCP is indeed extending their juris diction to our private comms, now. That's the OTHER big issue in this whole fiasco.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1062
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:22:00 -
[2025] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:[
Oh, it's that simple? I'd bet money that, were Sokhar to go on trial for the criminal offense (at least where I live) of assault by way of threatening physical violence, and he used that excuse ("he tormented me until I lost control") the judge or prosecutor would ask the simple question, "why didn't you just leave when you began to feel that you were losing control?"
Well... MAYBE.
Sokhar was an active duty US Marine who served two tours in Iraq. Having served in the Marines myself, and having to deal first hand with some of the guys with severe cases of PTSD, I know how easily it can set somebody off even under normal circumstances.
This would greatly effect the outcome of any real life trial.
When I was listening to that Bonus room recording, there was a moment early on where he mentioned serving, and mentioned iraq. At that point, I immediately commented to a friend that was sitting beside me listening as well, saying "Uh oh... This is going to end bad."
And that was well before he finally lost it and went nuts.
I am not saying this is an excuse for his behavior, but that there are other factors involved here. I also wouldn't say that those factors should leave him free and clear either.
In truth, he shouldn't have been playing EVE in the first place. But that's another matter entirely. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
349
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:45:00 -
[2026] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Ive got a solution!
Ban everyone who gets scammed! That way, we dont enable either scammers OR the stupid! Aww cmon, Ramona, you're better than resorting to straw man arguments. I am disappoint
That's not a straw man, that's common freaking sense.
If greedy idiots knew that falling for a scam would result in a temp/perma ban from the game, they'd think long and hard before contracting over everything they own to a total stranger and then raging about it with less self-control than a three year old.
I am not an alt of Chribba. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
560
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:56:00 -
[2027] - Quote
Grumble grumble work getting in the way of my posting....
http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg
That why I fight for the assholes PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
560
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:58:00 -
[2028] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Why do people keep equating stupid with carebear in this thread? I remember back when Erotica1 made bonus room victims spam our in-boxes to announce their upcoming degradation, I received mails from some pretty prominent PVP players. It's not what you choose as a career that makes you stupid. It's that you think you can get something for nothing in this game. And from what I've seen there is no shortage of stupid right across the spectrum here. Mr Epeen So you knew this was going on. Hoe many petitions did YOU fill out? Just one. That's the rule. One petition per issue. Mr Epeen
Your in box was being "spammed" with those letters. How many makes "spam"? and you wrote one? Sounds like you were part of the problem. PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Salvos Rhoska
967
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:58:00 -
[2029] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
That image.... :X
Credibility----->Window---->>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ |
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:00:00 -
[2030] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:olan2005 wrote:Let me ask you. What do you consider acceptable behaviour towards another human being. I would say normal, socially accepted behaviour. That's a pretty tough one to explicity state all of the different ways to not be mean, so I guess it's best summed up as "treat others as you'd like to be treated". Judging by this though, I think you must misunderstand my position in all of this. At no point am I stating that Erotica 1's behaviour should be marked as socially acceptable behaviour, but CCP have explicitly stated to victims of harassment in the past that attacks that happen outside of the game are nothing to do with them and they can't do anything. So this situation is a departure from that rule. So if CCP are branching out to third party services, how far does that extend? At what point when I am interacting with member of the EVE community outside of EVE does the EULA stop covering me? And why did Erotica 1 get punished while Sohkar who broke several parts of the EULA and in fact the actual law get no punishment? The answer is pretty clear, CCP were caving to public pressure brought on by the witch hunt Ripard started. What are your opinions on that?
The fact is that Erotica1 made the recordings of the incident. Erotica1 then published these recordings. Erotica1 identified himself as the person in the recordings and claimed responsibility for the acts. This makes it very simple for CCP to conclude that the player behind the EVE character Erotica1 is the same person who was portrayed in the recording as Erotica1. This makes a very unique case in which CCP can use "third party evidence" to rule against an EVE player, as that player has freely and publicly admitted that the evidence is correct.
Sohkar has done no such thing; he didn't make the recording, or publicize it, or confirm his identity. CCP essentially only has Erotica1's word that the EVE character Sohkar is the same as the person portrayed in the recording. Since the third party evidence is unverifiable, CCP can take no action against Sohkar based on this recording alone.
Basically, it comes down to a case of Erotica1 convicting himself by publicly offering a recorded confession, and then through avenues which CCP could use to verify (official forums, etc.), confirmed his own identity. If Sohkar were to do the same, he may very well face consequences*.
CCP has never categorically stated that they won't respond to thrid party evidence, only that they are not responsible for what happens out of the game/official website. That does not restrict them from taking action based on third-party information if they conclude that it is in the best interest of the game. You are correct that historically, they have not accepted third-party evidence as motivation to take action against a specific player. However, you have to consider that in past cases, it has nearly (if not completely) always been the accuser presenting thrid party evidence against a perpetrator. In such a case, CCP cannot positively identify that the perpetrator is in fact the EVE persona that the accuser claims; it could easily be a fabricated hoax designed to get another player in trouble when they had doen nothing wrong. This is why CCP has largely avoided thrid-party evidence, as there is generally doubt as to its accuracy. Again, the case of Erotica1 is unique because in this case, the perpetrator himself provided the evidence and admitted to being the person involved. In this case, CCP is perfectly justified in taking Erotica! at his word that hes is the person in the evidence, and then taking action based on that evidence.
The moral of the story is that if you're going to do something questionable in a third-party venue, don't document it, and defintiely don't publish it, and most definitely don't claim responsibility for it! It reminds me of a time I saw a military officer addressing a room of young cadets (many of whom had recently reached the legal drinking age), counseling them on how doing stupid things while drunk could potentially affect their military career. His advice was basically that if you're going to go out and party, fine, go, have fun! But absolutely do not take pictures! If somehow pictures are taken, then be sure to destroy them immediately, as they always have a way of turning up later (and this was in the days long before Facebook or even MySpace).
CCP's actions in this case so far are perfectly within their track record of dealing with harassment; that being that when there is sufficient and verifiable evidence of what they consider to be harassment, they will take action. If you disagree with their decisions, you really have three courses of action available to you:
- Live with it and get on with the game
- Quit the game
- Petition CCP with your disagreement (and then return to either 1. or 2.)
On a side note, you can stop making statements about "freedom of speech." You have no right to freedom of speech in this, a privately owned forum. Your ability to speak goes only so far as CCP allows you to continue. If you really think you have some sort of actual freedom of speech, I woudl challenge you to put it to the test and see what happens when you go beyond the rules CCP has laid down.
*On the other hand, CCP has repeatedly stated that they deal with each of these issues on a case-by-case basis, and in this particular case they may very well give Sohkar a pass, if they conclude that his resposne was provoked and as such excusable (I'm not claiming that it is, just offering this as one hypothetical explanation). If this is the case, then even were Sohkar to positively identify himself in the recordings, he may not face repurcussions, or perhaps reduced repurcussions, for his actions. Again, that is all up to CCP to decide.
|
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
560
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:01:00 -
[2031] - Quote
Bump before work;
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Anna Karhunen wrote:[quote=Asia Leigh]
But, it was allowed until a certain CSM representative went ballistic and posted it all over the internet? If what erotica was doing was so heinous, why wasn't he banned last year when this started?
Let me ask you this... If ripard didn't write his blog and hold CCP hostage do you think Erotica would have been banned for this? Or would anyone would have even cared? I think we both know the answer to those questions >.>
Except that Erotica 1 was the one who posted it "all over internet" and CCP was not immediately aware of it. Or can you prove that they were aware of what goes inside the bonus room right from the beginning? I do think that Erotica 1 would have been eventually banned (assuming he is banned), but you guys wouldn't have had messenger to shoot. Now, get over your grief over your loved one's apparent banning and play the game. Are you telling me that no one from CCP reads the minerbumper blog? Are you also telling me that CCP wasn't reading all the locked posts in C&P over the last 6 months that had recordings posted on them? If they really didn't know should we put ISD upto task for not forwarding those posts and this 'grave injustice' to CCP? You don't really believe that do you?
http://funkybacon.blogspot.ca/2014/03/e1sohkar-getting-full-story-in-35-hours.html?showComment=1396230831597
0:46 Joined by Jaschar Verge, the the CEO of Dark Aether Operations. He tells us the story about how he heard the Bonus Room recording back when it was covered by James 315 in February on Minerbumping, and decided to take sohkar under his wing. sohkar was in his corp for nearly 3 weeks until being removed for his own protection. sohkar is free to rejoin whenever he thinks he'll be safe again in a player corp.
2:06 Back to Eve. Allegedly CCP has known about the bonus room since at least November. sohkar's bonus room was well publicized on Minerbumping.com a month ago, was not a secret. The victim says he was over it, and got on with his life. 1 month later, CCP suddenly "gives fucks" when Ripard Teg whips less than 500 people into a frenzy on a threadnought on Eve-O.
But yeah they "didnt know" Apparently the important ppl in CCP are complete idiots
Also, lets go on:
2:21 Joined by an operator who was IN the bonus room with sohkar. The question is asked "Do you feel that based on Erotica 1's ban, you also deserve to be banned?" All Bonus Room escrow agents present declare unanimously that if Erotica 1 has been banned because of his involvement in the Bonus Room, then they ALL deserve to be banned, no question.
2:47 Erotica 1 gives a story where he had been blackmailed outside of game by another player petitioned but was told by CCP GMs that they could do nothing with evidence supplied from outside the game.
My favorite part:
2:49 Sohkar joins us. If you listen to no other part of this recording, listen to this part moving forward. As far as I'm concerned, the opinions of the person on the receiving end of this scam which was apparently the reason for CCP to step into the metagame, should count most, even over the voices of those who claim to be "defending" him.
Interesting things were said. Sohkar was never contacted by Ripard Teg who claimed to owe it to the victim to understand his story. Sohkar states that Ripard's coverage of his bonus room has done more harm to him than good in the game. He never petitioned Erotica 1, does not believe Erotica 1 should be banned, and comes out and says that he should technically be banned for the things he said himself while raging at E1 and his associates if the recording is considered legit evidence for TOS violations.
Sohkar rejects the claims that he was tortured. He got angry. He points out that after Ripard's blog post, he tried to reach out and talk to Ripard and sent him an eve-mail. Ripard has still not responded to him after several days. It's thought at this point that Ripard Teg doesn't care about the victim at all, and is simply trying to push his anti scamming agenda with inflamatory language and rhetoric, and trying to put out the worst examples he can with no regard to how this will affect even the victims involved.
me: bullshit, CCP knew about the BRs from NOVEMBER
but yeah keep pretending
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4884
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:05:00 -
[2032] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Your in box was being "spammed" with those letters. How many makes "spam"? and you wrote one? Sounds like you were part of the problem.
ur dum u no
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
203
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:31:00 -
[2033] - Quote
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Ive got a solution!
Ban everyone who gets scammed! That way, we dont enable either scammers OR the stupid! Aww cmon, Ramona, you're better than resorting to straw man arguments. I am disappoint That's not a straw man, that's common freaking sense. If greedy idiots knew that falling for a scam would result in a temp/perma ban from the game, they'd think long and hard before contracting over everything they own to a total stranger and then raging about it with less self-control than a three year old.
Ya know, I actually kinda see your point. It would, however, open up a new style of personal warfare: People would devise increasingly elaborate scams, scams that take a long time to come to fruition, scams that succeed because they have established trust with their mark, maybe because they've been a loyal and trusted corpmate for months, something along those lines.... and the sole purpose would be to get someone they don't like banned by way of successfully pulling off the scam.
It would certainly make things more interesting, but the powers that be would never go for it, I don't think.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
861
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:05:00 -
[2034] - Quote
The latest minerbumping brings clarity
All fine and dandy isn't it? Who is a sick psycho again?
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4894
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:26:00 -
[2035] - Quote
Nice April 1st blog.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1226
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:42:00 -
[2036] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet. Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument I don't feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, I think they acted (by choosing NOT to act) unfairly with regard to Sohkar. Basically, the message CCP is sending the community is that it's perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs and even to threaten to MURDER someone IRL provided the target of your DEATH THREATS is either sufficiently unpopular or has been deemed to have sufficiently pissed you off, first. Either ban them both or ban neither. Heard he is banned for 30days.
As far as I am aware he has not been banned, I haven't read anything to suggest he's been banned other than speculation in this thread, do you have a source you can link that confirms that he has been banned. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1064
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:45:00 -
[2037] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:arabella blood wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:JC Anderson wrote:Surprised people haven't started flying in circles around and shooting the Jita monument yet. Perhaps that is because the two or three people who feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, are too busy filling the forums with tears to actually shoot the Jita monument I don't feel that CCP acted unfairly with regard to Ero, I think they acted (by choosing NOT to act) unfairly with regard to Sohkar. Basically, the message CCP is sending the community is that it's perfectly acceptable to use racial slurs and even to threaten to MURDER someone IRL provided the target of your DEATH THREATS is either sufficiently unpopular or has been deemed to have sufficiently pissed you off, first. Either ban them both or ban neither. Heard he is banned for 30days. As far as I am aware he has not been banned, I haven't read anything to suggest he's been banned other than speculation in this thread, do you have a source you can link that confirms that he has been banned.
Yeah I've been wondering where people have been getting that as well. Figured maybe it was posted somewhere and I simply had seen it or something. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2934
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:08:00 -
[2038] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:arabella blood wrote: Go watch "12 angry men" again ;) especially the part when he screams 'i am going to kill you"...
Movies are real and we should follow their example as to how to live our real lives Might be too early for me but to fully grasp what I just read, but a video game? It ain't real either. Mr Epeen
My point
You're touching it warmly *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1083
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:20:00 -
[2039] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited.
Racism, gender stereotyping and hate speech are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges.
And please people, if you come across a post that has broken the forum rules, report it! ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
755
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:28:00 -
[2040] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil! The Rules:4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited.
Racism, gender stereotyping and hate speech are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges. And please people, if you come across a post that has broken the forum rules, report it!
One 381 page thread and now a second almost to 100 pages! All over one player who gave away his stuff... Hmmm I might give away some stuff to get my own 300+ page thread
Edit: Gave away his in game stuff then was emotionally crushed over it... I could fake it but not very well. I don't think anyone would buy my acting |
|
Winchester Steele
792
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 00:29:00 -
[2041] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Nice April 1st blog. Mr Epeen
If only that were true. ... |
Winchester Steele
792
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 00:34:00 -
[2042] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:
I like your system. It will save a lot of money on judges paychecks. We are going to put an automated machine for judging and sentecing. You will input the data you have on the crime and the machine will decide guilty or not guilty. Then just print the same sentence for all. Hek, we could use 12 machines, each will give slightly preferred value for different aspects, and make the machines vote until they agree on 1 answer. Then just sentence - thats the easy part...
Save the money on the machine and just use Ripard. All he wants in exchange is page views. ... |
Winchester Steele
792
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 00:55:00 -
[2043] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Why do people keep equating stupid with carebear in this thread? I remember back when Erotica1 made bonus room victims spam our in-boxes to announce their upcoming degradation, I received mails from some pretty prominent PVP players. It's not what you choose as a career that makes you stupid. It's that you think you can get something for nothing in this game. And from what I've seen there is no shortage of stupid right across the spectrum here. Mr Epeen So you knew this was going on. Hoe many petitions did YOU fill out?
None. Because his "disgust" for the bonus room is 100% manufactured, just like pretty much all the other "white knights" in this thread. (Except Salvos, I was on comms with him and he is just too real)
I do find it hilarious that Epeen outs himself as an utter hypocrit though, so +1 for that. ... |
Winchester Steele
792
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 01:07:00 -
[2044] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Leto Thule wrote:
I have not seen an answer to this:
You are typing words, so I know you are probably not blind. I can think of no other explanation as to how you missed the many DEV and CSM answers to this. Mr Epeen I must be blind. In case I have missed it (hey, maybe so, its a huge thread, in which case youll have to pardon my mistake), nothing has been posted as to how someone can volunteer to be harassed, and how in fact that is anyone's problem but the idiot that volunteered.
Shhh. Get your logic out of here. This is a witchhunt not an intelligent debate. ... |
Winchester Steele
792
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 01:17:00 -
[2045] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:You folks need to get of the Erotica1 ****. Whats done is done. The issue is what precedent CCP has established.
Which is cave to mob mentality. And to give a free pass to racial slurs and threats of real-life violence and murder so long as it's because the other guy pissed you off. I'll let Malcanis answer that one: Malcanis wrote:You want CCP to ban erotica1 for deliberately tormenting a player until he loses control, and then also ban the player for losing control? Is that right?
Really, you should be relieved that Sokhar hasn't been banned; it demonstrates that the GMs are capable of understanding context, and they will empathise with the circumstances, and they can tell the difference between something said in the heat of the moment and something said with actual intent. So you can relax and not worry about being banned for a trivial or flippant statement on private comms, of whatever other ridiculous scenarios are being bandied about.
But officer, he made me really mad. He made me sing and took all my spaceship money. That's why I called him a ****** and threatened to "gut his mother."
Oh well then, why didn't you say so. You are free to go.
The only thing your quote demonstrates is that Malcanis isn't very smart and that I'm hella glad opinions like yours and his don't prevail in the real world. ... |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
641
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 05:04:00 -
[2046] - Quote
Dude, when the last 5 posts in the thread are you ranting at various people, please just stop posting. The issue is dead. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
871
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 05:30:00 -
[2047] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Dude, when the last 5 posts in the thread are you ranting at various people, please just stop posting. The issue is dead.
And if you just wish for it very, very, very, very, very hard: It still won't be
This is what is going on and your lack of outrage from it paints a sad picture of you; What we are talking about is that CCP has condoned the bonus room and all other antics of the villains of EVE online for over 10 years. It's what sets them appart from all the other masses appeasing games, games that are a fad today but dissapear tommorow. Now, pressurised by someone who tried petitionning Ero first, but failed to get him banned. Someone who is supposed to be the elected voice of our community. Someone on a personnal crusade to take away everything that makes EVE fun, CCP in a knee-jerk reaction banned a valuable asset to our game. No warning, no debate, just banned. Other cases always end where the logs show nothing but only for Erotica 1 CCP makes an exception, edged on to take action by a freakin' CSM member of all people.
Who's next?
BOTTOM LINE: CCP can not refuse service to paying custommers who abide by the written rules. If CCP feels someone is crossing an imaginary boundary in their sandbox they can open dialogue with who they percieve as perpetrator by means of talking, warning and if that fails: banning.
And if you want to be an asshat, then do so. It's the one and only unique selling point we have left over all the other carebear PC crap that is available. We can't expect new players to read all forum posts and blogs by CSM members to know how much of a villain they can be.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4902
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 05:43:00 -
[2048] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Dude, when the last 5 posts in the thread are you ranting at various people, please just stop posting. The issue is dead. And if you just wish for it very, very, very, very, very hard: It still won't be This is what is going on and your lack of outrage from it paints a sad picture of you; What we are talking about is that CCP has condoned the bonus room and all other antics of the villains of EVE online for over 10 years. It's what sets them appart from all the other masses appeasing games, games that are a fad today but dissapear tommorow. Now, pressurised by someone who tried petitionning Ero first, but failed to get him banned. Someone who is supposed to be the elected voice of our community. Someone on a personnal crusade to take away everything that makes EVE fun, CCP in a knee-jerk reaction banned a valuable asset to our game. No warning, no debate, just banned. Other cases always end where the logs show nothing but only for Erotica 1 CCP makes an exception, edged on to take action by a freakin' CSM member of all people. Who's next? BOTTOM LINE: CCP can not refuse service to paying custommers who abide by the written rules. If CCP feels someone is crossing an imaginary boundary in their sandbox they can open dialogue with who they percieve as perpetrator by means of talking, warning and if that fails: banning. And if you want to be an asshat, then do so. It's the one and only unique selling point we have left over all the other carebear PC crap that is available. We can't expect new players to read all forum posts and blogs by CSM members to know how much of a villain they can be. D.
TL/DR: I want to be a self righteous butt hurt whiner and CCP can't stop me.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Winchester Steele
813
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 05:48:00 -
[2049] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Dude, when the last 5 posts in the thread are you ranting at various people, please just stop posting. The issue is dead.
Hey man I was just catching up after work, get off my ****. The issue isn't even close to dead. The definition of harassment has been, is, and always be a central topic of discussion in Eve. Personally, I find it a fascinating topic and am loving the forum pvp (win or lose, and I'll concede that I'm not very good at it). So if it's all the same to you, I'll just keep doing my thing. If you don't like it, you are more than welcome to block me. I could really not care less either way. ... |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
874
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 05:52:00 -
[2050] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Danalee wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Dude, when the last 5 posts in the thread are you ranting at various people, please just stop posting. The issue is dead. And if you just wish for it very, very, very, very, very hard: It still won't be This is what is going on and your lack of outrage from it paints a sad picture of you; What we are talking about is that CCP has condoned the bonus room and all other antics of the villains of EVE online for over 10 years. It's what sets them appart from all the other masses appeasing games, games that are a fad today but dissapear tommorow. Now, pressurised by someone who tried petitionning Ero first, but failed to get him banned. Someone who is supposed to be the elected voice of our community. Someone on a personnal crusade to take away everything that makes EVE fun, CCP in a knee-jerk reaction banned a valuable asset to our game. No warning, no debate, just banned. Other cases always end where the logs show nothing but only for Erotica 1 CCP makes an exception, edged on to take action by a freakin' CSM member of all people. Who's next? BOTTOM LINE: CCP can not refuse service to paying custommers who abide by the written rules. If CCP feels someone is crossing an imaginary boundary in their sandbox they can open dialogue with who they percieve as perpetrator by means of talking, warning and if that fails: banning. And if you want to be an asshat, then do so. It's the one and only unique selling point we have left over all the other carebear PC crap that is available. We can't expect new players to read all forum posts and blogs by CSM members to know how much of a villain they can be. TL/DR: I want to be a self righteous butt hurt whiner and CCP can't stop me. Mr Epeen
I'm pretty sure you don't know the meaning of half of the words you typed, or you are unaware of the concept of irony; self righteous? butt hurt? whiner?
Pot! Meet. Kettle.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
570
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:01:00 -
[2051] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
As far as I am aware he has not been banned, I haven't read anything to suggest he's been banned other than speculation in this thread, do you have a source you can link that confirms that he has been banned.
Yeah I've been wondering where people have been getting that as well. Figured maybe it was posted somewhere and I simply hadn't seen it or something.
http://funkybacon.blogspot.ca/2014/03/e1sohkar-getting-full-story-in-35-hours.html?showComment=1396230831597
First off, CCP refuses to talk about that Im sure so youll never hear it from them
Quote:2:35 Erotica 1 is finally located and joins us. I ask a lot of questions, some similar to the round done at 1:12. He confirms his ban, tells us bits about the bonus room his associates could not. Tells his side of the story. PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
643
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:35:00 -
[2052] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:The issue isn't even close to dead. Sure it is. Most people have stopped posting. CCP isn't responding to anything you post.
It's GG. You're sitting in the plex after the site has despawned, adamant that there is more content, that if you just wait long enough "somethingTM" will happen in favor of your argument.
By all means continue to post. The last several pages are an echo chamber for people who lost an argument but refuse to admit it. This will be an interesting EO cultural artifact years from now. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
643
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:39:00 -
[2053] - Quote
Danalee wrote:And if you just wish for it very, very, very, very, very hard: It still won't be I don't have to wish for it. It's actually so.
The argument is over whether you want to believe it or not.
Danalee wrote:BOTTOM LINE: CCP can not refuse service to paying custommers who abide by the written rules. Sure they can. They reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, at any time at their own discretion.
Get over it. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4905
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:43:00 -
[2054] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:The issue isn't even close to dead. Sure it is. Most people have stopped posting. CCP isn't responding to anything you post. It's GG. You're sitting in the plex after the site has despawned, adamant that there is more content, that if you just wait long enough "somethingTM" will happen in favor of your argument. By all means continue to post. The last several pages are an echo chamber for people who lost an argument but refuse to admit it. This will be an interesting EO cultural artifact years from now.
Just for future reference. Hit your num lock key and then hold down the alt key while typing 0153 on the num-pad.
SomethingGäó
It just looks nicer.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
876
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:54:00 -
[2055] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara proving the discussion is far from closed.
So I take it your stance on things is: I'm perfectly fine with double, tripple standards as long as it doesn't affect my little bubble. I'm perfectly fine with CCP stealing from people who got themselves on the shitlist of some moral crusading CSM. I'm perfectly fine with all people who received the 'logs don't show anything' response in the past. I'm perfectly fine with paying for stuff and not get it. I'm perfectly fine with changing the core attraction to EVE. I'm perfectly fine with people using racial slurs and death threats when they have their feelings hurt. I'm perfectly fine.
Ok, that's your prerogative
I and many others aren't perfectly fine with this BS. Hence we discuss and try to come with a standpoint the CSM should recommend to CCP as the way forward. You don't like open discussions or transparency? Nobody is forcing you to read it
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
643
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:00:00 -
[2056] - Quote
Danalee wrote:So I take it your stance on things is: I'm perfectly fine with double, tripple standards as long as it doesn't affect my little bubble. I'm perfectly fine with CCP stealing from people who got themselves on the shitlist of some moral crusading CSM. I'm perfectly fine with all people who received the 'logs don't show anything' response in the past. I'm perfectly fine with paying for stuff and not get it. I'm perfectly fine with changing the core attraction to EVE. I'm perfectly fine with people using racial slurs and death threats when they have their feelings hurt. I'm perfectly fine.
I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it.
Danalee wrote:I and many others aren't perfectly fine with this BS. Good. Quit. Can I haz your stuff?
Danalee wrote:You don't like open discussions or transparency? Nobody is forcing you to read it Sometimes out of pity, I try to warn a fool he is being foolish, but if you guys want to keep posting to each other in the echo chamber, carry on. It's your time, your energy.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4905
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:06:00 -
[2057] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara proving the discussion is far from closed. So I take it your stance on things is: I'm perfectly fine with double, tripple standards as long as it doesn't affect my little bubble. I'm perfectly fine with CCP stealing from people who got themselves on the shitlist of some moral crusading CSM. I'm perfectly fine with all people who received the 'logs don't show anything' response in the past. I'm perfectly fine with paying for stuff and not get it. I'm perfectly fine with changing the core attraction to EVE. I'm perfectly fine with people using racial slurs and death threats when they have their feelings hurt. I'm perfectly fine. Ok, that's your prerogative I and many others aren't perfectly fine with this BS. Hence we discuss and try to come with a standpoint the CSM should recommend to CCP as the way forward. You don't like open discussions or transparency? Nobody is forcing you to read it D.
Use of acceptable grammar - check Capitalization where it belongs - check Half decent use of punctuation - check No random all-cap words - check
You type as though you have some education and a basic to middling I.Q., so why do you also come across as so bull headedly stupid?
A conundrum, for sure.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
876
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:20:00 -
[2058] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Danalee wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara proving the discussion is far from closed. So I take it your stance on things is: I'm perfectly fine with double, tripple standards as long as it doesn't affect my little bubble. I'm perfectly fine with CCP stealing from people who got themselves on the shitlist of some moral crusading CSM. I'm perfectly fine with all people who received the 'logs don't show anything' response in the past. I'm perfectly fine with paying for stuff and not get it. I'm perfectly fine with changing the core attraction to EVE. I'm perfectly fine with people using racial slurs and death threats when they have their feelings hurt. I'm perfectly fine. Ok, that's your prerogative I and many others aren't perfectly fine with this BS. Hence we discuss and try to come with a standpoint the CSM should recommend to CCP as the way forward. You don't like open discussions or transparency? Nobody is forcing you to read it Use of acceptable grammar - check Capitalization where it belongs - check Half decent use of punctuation - check No random all-cap words - check You type as though you have some education and a basic to middling I.Q., so why do you also come across as so bull headedly stupid? A conundrum, for sure. Mr Epeen
I'll solve your conundrum for you if you humor me first; Why do you insist on shooting the messenger and never once tackle the message presented?
Is it because your important e-peen doesn't allow finding a middle ground in a debate or is it because you aren't able to understand other people have feelings and opinions too?
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2942
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:29:00 -
[2059] - Quote
Danalee wrote:I'll solve your conundrum for you if you humor me first; Why do you insist on shooting the messenger and never once tackle the message presented? Is it because your important e-peen doesn't allow finding a middle ground in a debate or is it because you aren't able to understand other people have feelings and opinions too? D.
Ok Ill bite on this one
Trying as best I can not to be rude (which seems to be an endemic failing of 99% of posts in forums, which is why I dislike them), I only want to say; the problems you point out are common with the vast majority (if in fact not all) companies which operate in a free market economy. I work for a non-profit commercially funded company and THEY have exactly the same issues. Why start the ball rolling with CCP? I know they provide this videogame which we use like a drug, and then complain that the supplier is a crook, but is the way they operate in anyway unusual?
Ive taken this crap from supermarket chains, tv broadcasters, ebay, other developers, the medical profession, government agencies, hell even countries pretty much do it too.
Why rage against CCP when the problem is one of perception and the human condition?
I just dont see why everyone is so suprised when this has been going on for ever. Really. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Winchester Steele
819
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:32:00 -
[2060] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:The issue isn't even close to dead. Sure it is. Most people have stopped posting. CCP isn't responding to anything you post. It's GG. You're sitting in the plex after the site has despawned, adamant that there is more content, that if you just wait long enough "somethingTM" will happen in favor of your argument. By all means continue to post. The last several pages are an echo chamber for people who lost an argument but refuse to admit it. This will be an interesting EO cultural artifact years from now.
This post tells me that you don't even know what the issue is. ... |
|
Winchester Steele
819
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:35:00 -
[2061] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:The issue isn't even close to dead. Sure it is. Most people have stopped posting. CCP isn't responding to anything you post. It's GG. You're sitting in the plex after the site has despawned, adamant that there is more content, that if you just wait long enough "somethingTM" will happen in favor of your argument. By all means continue to post. The last several pages are an echo chamber for people who lost an argument but refuse to admit it. This will be an interesting EO cultural artifact years from now. Just for future reference. Hit your num lock key and then hold down the alt key while typing 0153 on the num-pad. SomethingGäó It just looks nicer. Mr Epeen
I would honestly like to thank you for that bit of information.. I was trying to figure out how to do that the other day to no avail. ... |
Winchester Steele
825
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:36:00 -
[2062] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Danalee wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara proving the discussion is far from closed. So I take it your stance on things is: I'm perfectly fine with double, tripple standards as long as it doesn't affect my little bubble. I'm perfectly fine with CCP stealing from people who got themselves on the shitlist of some moral crusading CSM. I'm perfectly fine with all people who received the 'logs don't show anything' response in the past. I'm perfectly fine with paying for stuff and not get it. I'm perfectly fine with changing the core attraction to EVE. I'm perfectly fine with people using racial slurs and death threats when they have their feelings hurt. I'm perfectly fine. Ok, that's your prerogative I and many others aren't perfectly fine with this BS. Hence we discuss and try to come with a standpoint the CSM should recommend to CCP as the way forward. You don't like open discussions or transparency? Nobody is forcing you to read it D. Use of acceptable grammar - check Capitalization where it belongs - check Half decent use of punctuation - check No random all-cap words - check You type as though you have some education and a basic to middling I.Q., so why do you also come across as so bull headedly stupid? A conundrum, for sure. Mr Epeen
Pot. Kettle. etc etc. ... |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
575
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:40:00 -
[2063] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Danalee wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara proving the discussion is far from closed. So I take it your stance on things is: I'm perfectly fine with double, tripple standards as long as it doesn't affect my little bubble. I'm perfectly fine with CCP stealing from people who got themselves on the shitlist of some moral crusading CSM. I'm perfectly fine with all people who received the 'logs don't show anything' response in the past. I'm perfectly fine with paying for stuff and not get it. I'm perfectly fine with changing the core attraction to EVE. I'm perfectly fine with people using racial slurs and death threats when they have their feelings hurt. I'm perfectly fine. Ok, that's your prerogative I and many others aren't perfectly fine with this BS. Hence we discuss and try to come with a standpoint the CSM should recommend to CCP as the way forward. You don't like open discussions or transparency? Nobody is forcing you to read it D. Use of acceptable grammar - check Capitalization where it belongs - check Half decent use of punctuation - check No random all-cap words - check You type as though you have some education and a basic to middling I.Q., so why do you also come across as so bull headedly stupid? A conundrum, for sure. Mr Epeen
Mr Epeen - check Personal attack - check Report - Check
Looks fine to me
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
885
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:40:00 -
[2064] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Danalee wrote:
I'll solve your conundrum for you if you humor me first; Why do you insist on shooting the messenger and never once tackle the message presented?
Is it because your important e-peen doesn't allow finding a middle ground in a debate or is it because you aren't able to understand other people have feelings and opinions too?
Ok Ill bite on this one Trying as best I can not to be rude (which seems to be an endemic failing of 99% of posts in forums, which is why I dislike them), I only want to say; the problems you point out are common with the vast majority (if in fact not all) companies which operate in a free market economy. I work for a non-profit commercially funded company and THEY have exactly the same issues. Why start the ball rolling with CCP? I know they provide this videogame which we use like a drug, and then complain that the supplier is a crook, but is the way they operate in anyway unusual? Ive taken this crap from supermarket chains, tv broadcasters, ebay, other developers, the medical profession, government agencies, hell even countries pretty much do it too. Why rage against CCP when the problem is one of perception and the human condition? I just dont see why everyone is so suprised when this has been going on for ever. Really.
I agree with your statement and still was suprised to see that CCP was like all others. At no point in time I've raged though, you taking it as such might be due to the means of communication - Forums - being sub-optimal. By being involved in the debate, started by CCP and the CSM, I'm trying to at least help making this clear and (I'm a dreamer) maybe slightly change the course taken as of late.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2945
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:49:00 -
[2065] - Quote
Danalee wrote:I agree with your statement and still was suprised to see that CCP was like all others. At no point in time I've raged though, you taking it as such might be due to the means of communication - Forums - being sub-optimal. By being involved in the debate, started by CCP and the CSM, I'm trying to at least help making this clear and (I'm a dreamer) maybe slightly change the course taken as of late. D.
Why must any comment be considered a personal attack by everyone? Thats another issue with forums. I even tried not to use the word "you" to avoid making it about one specific person as pretty much everyone who comments in these forums has negative things to say about CCP (and again, there is no inference meant other than what I have literally written there).
Even with that, rage itself is not a bad thing when it is directed in a productive direction.
I too consider myself a dreamer, but I try to remember what John Lennon did for the world and what he said;
Stayed in bed and achieved very little and later said "Oh bloody hell, Ive been shot" *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4908
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:11:00 -
[2066] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:The issue isn't even close to dead. Sure it is. Most people have stopped posting. CCP isn't responding to anything you post. It's GG. You're sitting in the plex after the site has despawned, adamant that there is more content, that if you just wait long enough "somethingTM" will happen in favor of your argument. By all means continue to post. The last several pages are an echo chamber for people who lost an argument but refuse to admit it. This will be an interesting EO cultural artifact years from now. Just for future reference. Hit your num lock key and then hold down the alt key while typing 0153 on the num-pad. SomethingGäó It just looks nicer. Mr Epeen I would honestly like to thank you for that bit of information.. I was trying to figure out how to do that the other day to no avail.
No problem. They're called alt codes and there's a **** ton of them. Just Google 'alt code' and you'll find whatever you need for any occasion.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
219
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:44:00 -
[2067] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it.
So it is your contention then that the EULA for Eve Online extends outside of Eve online and into our personal lives and what transpires on privately-owned TS servers and non-registered blogs? Because that's pretty damn far-reaching IMO.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2934
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:46:00 -
[2068] - Quote
Free The One And Only Honest Isk Doubler
Down with CSM members who abuse their privileged position and trivialise real world suffering as part of a dedicated "hit" against individual, personal targets in game. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
645
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:47:00 -
[2069] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:This post tells me that you don't even know what the issue is. That's because there is no "issue". Whatever your gripe, no one really cares except the other 4 or 5 people posting along with you.
Winchester Steele wrote:I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind you that you are still posting here too. Kind of silly to point one finger at me, while 3 are pointing right back at you. Like I said. If you have a problem with my posting, and it seems like you do, feel free to block me. I'm not changing a goddamn thing, most certainly not my opinion, for the likes of you. This is particularly rich, since you first told me to stop posting several pages back.
Funny how you treat people one way, then complain when you are treated the same way back. Or maybe it isn't so funny. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
645
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:49:00 -
[2070] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it. So it is your contention then that the EULA for Eve Online extends outside of Eve online and into our personal lives and what transpires on privately-owned TS servers and non-registered blogs? Because that's pretty damn far-reaching IMO. I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it.
They have the discretion, at any time, to cancel service or refuse service to anyone.
For any reason.
Or no reason at all.
That's the EULA YOU agreed to. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4910
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:56:00 -
[2071] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it.
So it is your contention then that the EULA for Eve Online extends outside of Eve online and into our personal lives and what transpires on privately-owned TS servers and non-registered blogs? Because that's pretty damn far-reaching IMO.
Outside of EVE where the REAL LIFE DEATH THREATS and RACIST REMARKS were made and are thus UNENFORCEABLE under your DEFINITION and sense of what's FAIR? (it actually feels kind of nice to randomly capitalize words).
What about in-game where the SADIST was HUNTING for his victims?
Let's face it. CCP will never tell us exactly why the ban took place, but you can take an educated guess that it wasn't about what happened outside the game.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
221
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:59:00 -
[2072] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it. So it is your contention then that the EULA for Eve Online extends outside of Eve online and into our personal lives and what transpires on privately-owned TS servers and non-registered blogs? Because that's pretty damn far-reaching IMO. I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it.They have the discretion, at any time, to cancel service or refuse service to anyone. For any reason. Or no reason at all. That's the EULA YOU agreed to.
You're skirting the issue. Sure, I agree that it's their game and they can do whatever they damn well please. Now I ask again, are YOU ok with them using things that go on OUTSIDE of their game, on YOUR privately owned property, as a reason to exercise their right to refuse service? Would you be ok with them refusing someone service because they were homosexual? Afircan-American? A Republican? It's their game and they can refuse service to anyone they want, right? Sure, but do their stated reasons for refusal of service matter at all to you?
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
221
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:04:00 -
[2073] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote: Outside of EVE where the REAL LIFE DEATH THREATS and RACIST REMARKS were made and are thus UNENFORCEABLE under your DEFINITION and sense of what's FAIR? (it actually feels kind of nice to randomly capitalize words).
You're right, I'm glad you brought this up. I have been calling for equal justice for all parties involved. So am I contradicting myseld, as you imply? No.
I don't believe that what goes on outside of Eve on privately-owned servers is CCP's business. BUT, since apparently they DO, then shouldn't they apply the same standards to everyone? Once we start giving CCP a free pass on exercising favoritism instead of treating everyone equally we wind up with things like the T20 fiasco, is that what you want? I mean, it's their game they can do what they want, amirite?
Quote: What about in-game where the SADIST was HUNTING for his victims?
E1 did nothing in-game that violated the rules.
Quote:Let's face it. CCP will never tell us exactly why the ban took place, but you can take an educated guess that it wasn't about what happened outside the game. Mr Epeen
Must be one of them there publik skool educations formulating the "educated guess" because I sure don't see where any rules were broken in-game.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2934
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:05:00 -
[2074] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it. So it is your contention then that the EULA for Eve Online extends outside of Eve online and into our personal lives and what transpires on privately-owned TS servers and non-registered blogs? Because that's pretty damn far-reaching IMO. I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it.They have the discretion, at any time, to cancel service or refuse service to anyone. For any reason. Or no reason at all. That's the EULA YOU agreed to.
CCP are within their legal rights to ban any player for any reason.
That doesn't mean every ban is inherently fair, balanced, good for the game/community, intelligent and reasonable though. It just means they're free to make unfair, imbalanced, bad, stupid and unreasonable bans.
If some people think it's ridiculous or bad for the game if CCP ban someone from their services for something that happened outside of the game - for example on teamspeak, or on a third party forum, or in my living room (dont gank your spouse, people) - then thats a valid discussion that can be had.
Neither side gains anything by pointing out that legally CCP are allowed to do it - I don't think that is being contested by anyone |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2954
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:06:00 -
[2075] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote: SADIST was HUNTING for his victims?
Hey, come on! Peen! Don't! Peen. Come on Peen. Why are you doing this Peen? This isn't you. I want the old Peen back. I don't want bad new Peen. I want good old Peen. Give me the Peen I'm used to. Give me the Peen I love.
If actual sadism was involved, I dont know what any of you would call the things that I like to think about. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
225
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:07:00 -
[2076] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:CCP are within their legal rights to ban any player for any reason.
That doesn't mean every ban is inherently fair, balanced, good for the game/community, intelligent and reasonable though. It just means they're free to make unfair, imbalanced, bad, stupid and unreasonable bans.
If some people think it's ridiculous or bad for the game if CCP ban someone from their services for something that happened outside of the game - for example on teamspeak, or on a third party forum, or in my living room (dont gank your spouse, people) - then thats a valid discussion that can be had.
Neither side gains anything by pointing out that legally CCP are allowed to do it - I don't think that is being contested by anyone
Exactly.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Winchester Steele
832
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:19:00 -
[2077] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Let's face it. CCP will never tell us exactly why the ban took place, but you can take an educated guess that it wasn't about what happened outside the game. Mr Epeen
If Funkybacon is correct and Ero actively posted these Soundclouds on Eve-o, well that would be a pretty understandable motive for the ban right there would it not?
Certainly was a part of the story I was unaware of until I read that blog.
Either way. I think the fact that the ban came within 48 hours of Ripard's blog and the ensuing threadnaught is just a little too convenient to be coincidental.
Besides, it would seem that CCP knew about this stuff since November. If they cared so much about the "well being" of their community, why wait so long to stop such a "beyond the pale" offender? Doesn't wash. Had Ripard kept his mouth shut, or filed a petition like he SHOULD have done, I suspect this banning would have never taken place.
Regardless, it is obviously all water under the bridge at this time although it is still food for thought. ... |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2956
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:22:00 -
[2078] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:"beyond the pale"
This phrase is offensive to Irish people btw *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Facebook would never tolerate that behaviour we are talking about" - Big Lynx |
Winchester Steele
836
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:26:00 -
[2079] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:This post tells me that you don't even know what the issue is. That's because there is no "issue". Whatever your gripe, no one really cares except the other 4 or 5 people posting along with you. Winchester Steele wrote:I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind you that you are still posting here too. Kind of silly to point one finger at me, while 3 are pointing right back at you. Like I said. If you have a problem with my posting, and it seems like you do, feel free to block me. I'm not changing a goddamn thing, most certainly not my opinion, for the likes of you. This is particularly rich, since you first told me to stop posting several pages back. Funny how you treat people one way, then complain when you are treated the same way back. Or maybe it isn't so funny.
And I apologized for the personal attack. It seems you however, are unable to let it go. Whatever. Keep trolling, I am not sinking to that level anymore.
Whether you see an issue or not is entirely irrelevant. There are lots of people who do. And considering every second thread for the last 4 years that I've been lurking on GD is about griefing, ganking or harassment I think my assessment that the issue is alive and well is borne out by the evidence in front of us.
Protip: It has very little to do with E1 except as a use-case example or a springboard for larger discussion. ... |
Winchester Steele
836
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:30:00 -
[2080] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:"beyond the pale" This phrase is offensive to Irish people btw
Really? How so?
I merely used it as a soft quote from some other poster upstream. Definitely did not intend any offense to anyone. ... |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2962
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:42:00 -
[2081] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote: Really? How so?
I merely used it as a soft quote from some other poster upstream. Definitely did not intend any offense to anyone.
Oh I didnt think you meant it offensively, Im not suggesting you did at all. But its one of those phrases that has slipped through because its meaning is not obvious.
The Pale (An Ph+íil in Irish) or the English Pale (An Ph+íil Sasanach), was the part of Ireland that was directly under the control of the English government in the late Middle Ages.
Anything "beyond the Pale" was considered uncivilised, barbaric or idiotic by the English. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Salvos Rhoska
969
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:51:00 -
[2082] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:There are lots of people who do
You mean lots of alts. ------------ |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
891
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:52:00 -
[2083] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:There are lots of people who do You mean lots of alts.
Alts are people too!
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Winchester Steele
840
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:57:00 -
[2084] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:There are lots of people who do You mean lots of alts.
If you say so dude. Thing is, I've interacted with a lot of these folks in game (or forums) in one way or another over the years and know them to not be alts. You are free to believe what you will though, I won't for a moment pretend I can change your outlook.
Or to clarify. Know them to not all be alts of the same person as you seem to be implying. ... |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4918
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:00:00 -
[2085] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Mr Epeen wrote: SADIST was HUNTING for his victims?
Hey, come on! Peen! Don't! Peen. Come on Peen. Why are you doing this Peen? This isn't you. I want the old Peen back. I don't want bad new Peen. I want good old Peen. Give me the Peen I'm used to. Give me the Peen I love. If actual sadism was involved, I dont know what any of you would call the things that I like to think about.
I am calling in my once-a-day drama queen privilege on that one.
As well, if you send me photo dramatizations of these alleged things you like to think about, I will be happy to try and ascertain if they are acceptable behavior. My discretion will be assured.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2964
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:02:00 -
[2086] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Mr Epeen wrote: SADIST was HUNTING for his victims?
Hey, come on! Peen! Don't! Peen. Come on Peen. Why are you doing this Peen? This isn't you. I want the old Peen back. I don't want bad new Peen. I want good old Peen. Give me the Peen I'm used to. Give me the Peen I love. If actual sadism was involved, I dont know what any of you would call the things that I like to think about. I am calling in my once-a-day drama queen privilege on that one. As well, if you send me photo dramatizations of these alleged things you like to think about, I will be happy to try and ascertain if they are acceptable behavior. My discretion will be assured. Mr Epeen
I believe thats called entrapment lol
Also many of them are extremely difficult to dramatise, though some movies have tried with varying degrees of success *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:47:00 -
[2087] - Quote
Just a thought on all the discussion and differences of opinion here on this thread, and the original of course.
I think that there is a false dilemma here.
It's not a question of is or is not out of game activity a matter for CCP to be concerned with. Neither is it a case of this kind of thing being harassment or plain taking advantage of a gullible, greedy player who should have known better.
The real point is that of bringing the game into disrepute.
There appears to be no question that Erotica 1 has potentially damaged the reputation of EVE and CCP by his activities. The podcast is irrefutable proof of that, and as such, CCP is quite within their rights to take such action so as to limit the adverse consequences of Erotica 1's actions.
Is a ban, either temporary or permanent in this case justified? I don't know. That's up to CCP to decide.
Here in the UK we have plenty of reports of footballers being charged with "bringing the game into disrepute" when a player steps out of line and says or does something that adversely affects the game's reputation. I think that's what has happened here.
Slightly off topic.
What The Mitanni did was equivalent to an offense much in the news here lately. That of "misconduct in a public office".
In my opinion far more serious and deserving of stronger sanctions. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2967
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:52:00 -
[2088] - Quote
Jaxon Grylls wrote: The real point is that of bringing the game into disrepute.
The high-brow and considered opinion of those who play other games of this type is that EvE is full of Sheldon Coopers, Oppenhiemers and accountants.
The opinion of "modern gamers" (ugh) is "Whats EvE?" or "When's the new console game out, I dont have a PC"
The opinion of anyone slightly clued in but not a player of EvE is "Doesnt that happen all the time in that game?"
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
227
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:04:00 -
[2089] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Jaxon Grylls wrote: The real point is that of bringing the game into disrepute.
The high-brow and considered opinion of those who play other games of this type is that EvE is full of Sheldon Coopers, Oppenhiemers and accountants. The opinion of "modern gamers" (ugh) is "Whats EvE?" or "When's the new console game out, I dont have a PC" The opinion of anyone slightly clued in but not a player of EvE is "Doesnt that happen all the time in that game?"
Exactly. Eve is already known for being full of scammers and all manner of underhandedness. FFS it's one if it's selling points, it's what makes it different from every other hand-holding mmo out there.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:11:00 -
[2090] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote: The high-brow and considered opinion of those who play other games of this type is that EvE is full of Sheldon Coopers, Oppenhiemers and accountants.
The opinion of "modern gamers" (ugh) is "Whats EvE?" or "When's the new console game out, I dont have a PC"
The opinion of anyone slightly clued in but not a player of EvE is "Doesnt that happen all the time in that game?"
Quite possibly so.
In this case, however, the offense was so blatant that I think that CCP had no option than to bring down the hammer on Erotic1, if indeed that is what has happened. I don't know if it has and quite frankly don't want to know.
If /when this gets picked up by the general media, it is going to do CCP no favours and that surely must mean that they try and protect their main business asset by all available means. |
|
Winchester Steele
845
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:29:00 -
[2091] - Quote
Jaxon Grylls wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote: The high-brow and considered opinion of those who play other games of this type is that EvE is full of Sheldon Coopers, Oppenhiemers and accountants.
The opinion of "modern gamers" (ugh) is "Whats EvE?" or "When's the new console game out, I dont have a PC"
The opinion of anyone slightly clued in but not a player of EvE is "Doesnt that happen all the time in that game?"
Quite possibly so. In this case, however, the offense was so blatant that I think that CCP had no option than to bring down the hammer on Erotic1, if indeed that is what has happened. I don't know if it has and quite frankly don't want to know. If /when this gets picked up by the general media, it is going to do CCP no favours and that surely must mean that they try and protect their main business asset by all available means.
Let's pretend anybody besides the 10 people in this thread care about this issue in the slightest. ... |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2970
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:39:00 -
[2092] - Quote
Jaxon Grylls wrote: In this case, however, the offense was so blatant that I think that CCP had no option than to bring down the hammer on Erotic1
This is your opinion. Others have differing opinions of equal validity
Jaxon Grylls wrote:If /when this gets picked up by the general media, it is going to do CCP no favours and that surely must mean that they try and protect their main business asset by all available means.
Well no one is saying they shouldnt, and I completely accept this is their motivating factor rather than any claim of doing the right thing or any nonsense about morality. But I sincerly doubt that the general media (sic) will have any interest in this at all. Infact if we can define general media I would place isk on it not making news.
I dont believe in gambling unless the odds are so stacked in my favour its not mathematically a gamble, so. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
229
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:44:00 -
[2093] - Quote
Speaking of general media, I wonder what the larger gaming community as a whole will think of CCP apparently asserting (through it's actions) that their TOS and EULA extends outside of the game and into the personal lives and private property of it's players.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2975
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:05:00 -
[2094] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Speaking of general media, I wonder what the larger gaming community as a whole will think of CCP apparently asserting (through it's actions) that their TOS and EULA extends outside of the game and into the personal lives and private property of it's players.
Like the WoW player base who by the rules of their EULA can be banned for giving their character a name, and for the very act of using VOIP in the first place?
Or Anyone on an EA server who can be banned under their EULA for bad mouthing EA on facebook?
Im guessing they would say "about time" *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
580
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:57:00 -
[2095] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it.
So it is your contention then that the EULA for Eve Online extends outside of Eve online and into our personal lives and what transpires on privately-owned TS servers and non-registered blogs? Because that's pretty damn far-reaching IMO.
Yes! EULAs are solid! They are involate! They could make you kill someone and breach any international law because they are completely unchallengable! PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
580
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:00:00 -
[2096] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:
What about in-game where the SADIST was HUNTING for his victims?
What about YOU who SAID they were getting their email spammed BY said victims yet oddly, THEN you didnt seem to have an issue with it.
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
580
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:04:00 -
[2097] - Quote
Jaxon Grylls wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote: The high-brow and considered opinion of those who play other games of this type is that EvE is full of Sheldon Coopers, Oppenhiemers and accountants.
The opinion of "modern gamers" (ugh) is "Whats EvE?" or "When's the new console game out, I dont have a PC"
The opinion of anyone slightly clued in but not a player of EvE is "Doesnt that happen all the time in that game?"
Quite possibly so. In this case, however, the offense was so blatant that I think that CCP had no option than to bring down the hammer on Erotic1, if indeed that is what has happened. I don't know if it has and quite frankly don't want to know.
EXCEPT it had been happening (and theyd been aware of it) for five MONTHS and they didnt act (because the victim didnt even REPORT IT) until the self proclaimed ridder of evil made his blog.
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2986
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:04:00 -
[2098] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:I am perfectly fine with CCP's EULA and how they enforce it. You should be too, since you agreed to it.
So it is your contention then that the EULA for Eve Online extends outside of Eve online and into our personal lives and what transpires on privately-owned TS servers and non-registered blogs? Because that's pretty damn far-reaching IMO. Yes! EULAs are solid! They are involate! They could make you kill someone and breach any international law because they are completely unchallengable!
When I write my own game, all players will be required to send me their first born or face a 7 day ban
If they want to avoid a 30 day ban, they need to send me only the blood.
All of it. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
234
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:04:00 -
[2099] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Speaking of general media, I wonder what the larger gaming community as a whole will think of CCP apparently asserting (through it's actions) that their TOS and EULA extends outside of the game and into the personal lives and private property of it's players.
Like the WoW player base who by the rules of their EULA can be banned for giving their character a name, and for the very act of using VOIP in the first place? Or Anyone on an EA server who can be banned under their EULA for bad mouthing EA on facebook? Im guessing they would say "about time"
Would they? Or would they say it's about time that gaming companies be held accountable for overstepping the boundaries of reason and respect? We all agree to play their rules when we're playing there games, but maybe, just maybe (hold on folks, this is a wild concept) what we do when we're not playing their games is none of their damned business?
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
580
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:05:00 -
[2100] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Speaking of general media, I wonder what the larger gaming community as a whole will think of CCP apparently asserting (through it's actions) that their TOS and EULA extends outside of the game and into the personal lives and private property of it's players.
And not giving a **** about the racism and irl threats the victim made? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2987
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:11:00 -
[2101] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Speaking of general media, I wonder what the larger gaming community as a whole will think of CCP apparently asserting (through it's actions) that their TOS and EULA extends outside of the game and into the personal lives and private property of it's players.
Like the WoW player base who by the rules of their EULA can be banned for giving their character a name, and for the very act of using VOIP in the first place? Or Anyone on an EA server who can be banned under their EULA for bad mouthing EA on facebook? Im guessing they would say "about time" Would they? Or would they say it's about time that gaming companies be held accountable for overstepping the boundaries of reason and respect? We all agree to play their rules when we're playing their games, but maybe, just maybe (hold on folks, this is a wild concept) what we do when we're not playing their games is none of their damned business? Edit: THERE THEIR AND THEY'RE
Ok well as I dont agree that they have overstepped anything, Im not able to answer this reply, sorry. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
2987
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:12:00 -
[2102] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Speaking of general media, I wonder what the larger gaming community as a whole will think of CCP apparently asserting (through it's actions) that their TOS and EULA extends outside of the game and into the personal lives and private property of it's players.
And not giving a **** about the racism and irl threats the victim made?
It doesnt matter whether somethign neither of us can prove or disprove did or didnt happen.
His Alliance mates did. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Kinis Deren
House Of Serenity. Disband.
403
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:54:00 -
[2103] - Quote
Are we there (100 pages) yet?
Edit: Boooo! I suffered from premature post insertion. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1227
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:14:00 -
[2104] - Quote
Kinis Deren wrote:Are we there (100 pages) yet? Edit: Boooo! I suffered from premature post insertion.
You can get an ointment for that... Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:55:00 -
[2105] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:You're skirting the issue. Sure, I agree that it's their game and they can do whatever they damn well please. Now I ask again, are YOU ok with them using things that go on OUTSIDE of their game, on YOUR privately owned property, as a reason to exercise their right to refuse service? Would you be ok with them refusing someone service because they were homosexual? Afircan-American? A Republican? It's their game and they can refuse service to anyone they want, right? Sure, but do their stated reasons for refusal of service matter at all to you? No, they do not. It's irrelevant. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:03:00 -
[2106] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:CCP are within their legal rights to ban any player for any reason.
That doesn't mean every ban is inherently fair, balanced, good for the game/community, intelligent and reasonable though. It just means they're free to make unfair, imbalanced, bad, stupid and unreasonable bans. Equality is a delusion. Everyone is unique, every circumstance is unique and every moment in time is unique.
What you think is unfair, other people think is fair. There is no objective measure of fairness, and by playing this game, and agreeing to the EULA, we've all agreed to let CCP make decisions, at their discretion, wrt fairness.
Because CCP's staff is mostly human, they will make human (aka imperfect, subjective, biased, socially-normalized) decisions.
If you don't like that, find a game with robot GMs. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
246
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:20:00 -
[2107] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:CCP are within their legal rights to ban any player for any reason.
That doesn't mean every ban is inherently fair, balanced, good for the game/community, intelligent and reasonable though. It just means they're free to make unfair, imbalanced, bad, stupid and unreasonable bans. Equality is a delusion. Everyone is unique, every circumstance is unique and every moment in time is unique. What you think is unfair, other people think is fair. There is no objective measure of fairness, and by playing this game, and agreeing to the EULA, we've all agreed to let CCP make decisions, at their discretion, wrt fairness. Because CCP's staff is mostly human, they will make human (aka imperfect, subjective, biased, socially-normalized) decisions. If you don't like that, find a game with robot GMs.
I guess I'm not being clear with my real issue here. I agree to abide by the TOS/EULA when logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. be it the game itself, the forums, if I were at a CCP event like FanFest, etc. I don't have a problem with that. Like you said, I AGREE to that every time I log on.
That said, I don't believe that the TOS/EULA apply to me when I'm not logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. What I say or do when not in CCP's "sphere of control" is frankly none of their damned business.
Terms of Service - When I'm not using the service, the terms don't apply.
End User License Agreement - When I'm not acting as a user of their product, there is no agreement, there's nothing to agree or disagreed about!
So there's my issue. CCP doesn't own me, they own the Eve Online franchise, their Internet domain, etc, and just like if I were to visit their "house," I must of course agree to follow their rules when I'm there, but the minute I pull out of the driveway, I can turn the radio to whatever station I choose, so to speak.
CCP has no jurisdiction over anything outside of the Game, their forums, etc, and I find it quite literally horribly offensive, tyrannical, illogical and unreasonable for them to take action against anyone for anything they might say or do when not in CCP's "house."
Hope that clears up my position. Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1058
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:43:00 -
[2108] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:I guess I'm not being clear with my real issue here. I agree to abide by the TOS/EULA when logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. be it the game itself, the forums, if I were at a CCP event like FanFest, etc. I don't have a problem with that. Like you said, I AGREE to that every time I log on.
That said, I don't believe that the TOS/EULA apply to me when I'm not logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. What I say or do when not in CCP's "sphere of control" is frankly none of their damned business.
Terms of Service - When I'm not using the service, the terms don't apply.
End User License Agreement - When I'm not acting as a user of their product, there is no agreement, there's nothing to agree or disagreed about!
So there's my issue. CCP doesn't own me, they own the Eve Online franchise, their Internet domain, etc, and just like if I were to visit their "house," I must of course agree to follow their rules when I'm there, but the minute I pull out of the driveway, I can turn the radio to whatever station I choose, so to speak.
CCP has no jurisdiction over anything outside of the Game, their forums, etc, and I find it quite literally horribly offensive, tyrannical, illogical and unreasonable for them to take action against anyone for anything they might say or do when not in CCP's "house."
Hope that clears up my position. Therein lies the big misunderstanding about what being able to deny service for any reason means. Any reason doesn't just mean when logged into the client. If you had that expectation, you were mistaken from the beginning.
If an activity happens even outside of the client which: - involves their customers specifically - originated from an interaction within the client - they perceive as being abusive of their customer base - they perceive as being damaging to their reputation as a game company
Then yes, they are entirely justified to act. Even if none of these criteria are met they are still allowed to act as per the stated ability to terminate service even without reason, but much harder to justify. As a customer of their services you are associated with their house, as E1's actions were associated with EvE despite not taking place in the client. If you represent my house, even when not in my house, I can tell you not to come back if you do something I don't approve of. |
Silvara Nocturn
Nocturn Industries
66
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:46:00 -
[2109] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:CCP are within their legal rights to ban any player for any reason.
That doesn't mean every ban is inherently fair, balanced, good for the game/community, intelligent and reasonable though. It just means they're free to make unfair, imbalanced, bad, stupid and unreasonable bans. Equality is a delusion. Everyone is unique, every circumstance is unique and every moment in time is unique. What you think is unfair, other people think is fair. There is no objective measure of fairness, and by playing this game, and agreeing to the EULA, we've all agreed to let CCP make decisions, at their discretion, wrt fairness. Because CCP's staff is mostly human, they will make human (aka imperfect, subjective, biased, socially-normalized) decisions. If you don't like that, find a game with robot GMs. I guess I'm not being clear with my real issue here. I agree to abide by the TOS/EULA when logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. be it the game itself, the forums, if I were at a CCP event like FanFest, etc. I don't have a problem with that. Like you said, I AGREE to that every time I log on. That said, I don't believe that the TOS/EULA apply to me when I'm not logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. What I say or do when not in CCP's "sphere of control" is frankly none of their damned business. Terms of Service - When I'm not using the service, the terms don't apply. End User License Agreement - When I'm not acting as a user of their product, there is no agreement, there's nothing to agree or disagreed about! So there's my issue. CCP doesn't own me, they own the Eve Online franchise, their Internet domain, etc, and just like if I were to visit their "house," I must of course agree to follow their rules when I'm there, but the minute I pull out of the driveway, I can turn the radio to whatever station I choose, so to speak. CCP has no jurisdiction over anything outside of the Game, their forums, etc, and I find it quite literally horribly offensive, tyrannical, illogical and unreasonable for them to take action against anyone for anything they might say or do when not in CCP's "house." Hope that clears up my position.
My guess would be that Erotica 1 was logged on to Eve Servers to ransom the guy's assets. Without those assets the whole team speak thing would have never transpired. So in effect Eve Online is responsible for this event taking place, making it CCP's business. Taking the stance that this was completely unattached to Eve Online is disingenuous to say the least.
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
249
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:00:00 -
[2110] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:I guess I'm not being clear with my real issue here. I agree to abide by the TOS/EULA when logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. be it the game itself, the forums, if I were at a CCP event like FanFest, etc. I don't have a problem with that. Like you said, I AGREE to that every time I log on.
That said, I don't believe that the TOS/EULA apply to me when I'm not logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. What I say or do when not in CCP's "sphere of control" is frankly none of their damned business.
Terms of Service - When I'm not using the service, the terms don't apply.
End User License Agreement - When I'm not acting as a user of their product, there is no agreement, there's nothing to agree or disagreed about!
So there's my issue. CCP doesn't own me, they own the Eve Online franchise, their Internet domain, etc, and just like if I were to visit their "house," I must of course agree to follow their rules when I'm there, but the minute I pull out of the driveway, I can turn the radio to whatever station I choose, so to speak.
CCP has no jurisdiction over anything outside of the Game, their forums, etc, and I find it quite literally horribly offensive, tyrannical, illogical and unreasonable for them to take action against anyone for anything they might say or do when not in CCP's "house."
Hope that clears up my position. Therein lies the big misunderstanding about what being able to deny service for any reason means. Any reason doesn't just mean when logged into the client. If you had that expectation, you were mistaken from the beginning. If an activity happens even outside of the client which: - involves their customers specifically - originated from an interaction within the client - they perceive as being abusive of their customer base - they perceive as being damaging to their reputation as a game company Then yes, they are entirely justified to act. Even if none of these criteria are met they are still allowed to act as per the stated ability to terminate service even without reason, but much harder to justify. As a customer of their services you are associated with their house, as E1's actions were associated with EvE despite not taking place in the client. If you represent my house, even when not in my house, I can tell you not to come back if you do something I don't approve of.
Ill prolly respond more thoroughly after Ive had some sleep, but I wonder, if some nasty corp or alliance is DDoSing my corps teamspeak severs, can I ask CCP to handle the matter for me? Will they? Should they? Is it their problem?
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1058
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:06:00 -
[2111] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Ill prolly respond more thoroughly after Ive had some sleep, but I wonder, if some nasty corp or alliance is DDoSing my corps teamspeak severs, can I ask CCP to handle the matter for me? Will they? Should they? Is it their problem? I'm not familiar enough with the techniques involved to know how easy it is to obtain reasonable proof that a particular party is responsible for such an attack, but to answer your question, sure, why not? |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
804
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:10:00 -
[2112] - Quote
In short...
1. Erotica 1 was 'mean' out of game to another EvE player Sohkar.
2. Sohkar did not file criminal charges of harassment et al against Erotica 1, so real world harassment has not been proven in law. Erotica 1 hasn't been convicted of anything. More telling is that Sohkar has since made it clear he does not feel Erotica 1 harrassed him.
3. Additionally, it should be noted Dominatrixes in my area charge $140 for 1/2 of willing S&M or BDSM abuse, while Erotica 1 charged Sohkar nothing. Submissives in these scenarios typically use 'safe words' to end abusive play at their choosing. Sohkar had a teamspeak disconnect button. He didn't press it.
4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.
5. Carebears and pansies joined Ripard Teg's witchhunt,
6. CCP did more 'research', six months after the event, and banned Erotica 1 from EvE online.
Now despite CCP not saying why exactly Erotica 1 was banned, and folks like Malcanis saying 'you dont have the full information', I think we have all the information we need...
By all appearances Erotica 1 was not banned because of a violation of TOS or EULA that CCP can honestly defend (or they would perhaps quote it), he was banned based on moral hand wringing by pansies and the fact people in power dont like him or his actions.
Welcome to the 'sandbox'. Be the villian...until someones feelings get hurt, then you are screwed.
p.s. Given Ripard Teg actually made real-world accusations about Erotica 1's real-world 'torture', 'harassment' and 'abuse' of Sohkar, I would find it entertaining indeed if Erotica 1 now successfully sued Ripard for publishing slanderous libel against him. For surely if Erotica 1's actions outside of the game were real acts of 'torture', 'harassment' etc, then equally Ripards comments are actionable for libel and slander if said acts weren't provable true in court?
F Would you like to know more? |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4947
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:15:00 -
[2113] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote: Ill prolly respond more thoroughly after Ive had some sleep, but I wonder, if some nasty corp or alliance is DDoSing my corps teamspeak severs, can I ask CCP to handle the matter for me? Will they? Should they? Is it their problem?
I hosted a TS server for two years for a popular game and not one person ever showed up that shouldn't have. Be smart and you won't have a situation in which you need to whine to CCP.
Just sayin'
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4949
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:18:00 -
[2114] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:In short...
1. Erotica 1 was 'mean' out of game to another EvE player Sohkar.
2. Sohkar did not file criminal charges of harassment et al against Erotica 1, so real world harassment has not been proven in law. Erotica 1 hasn't been convicted of anything. More telling is that Sohkar has since made it clear he does not feel Erotica 1 harrassed him.
3. Additionally, it should be noted Dominatrixes in my area charge $140 for 1/2 of willing S&M or BDSM abuse, while Erotica 1 charged Sohkar nothing. Submissives in these scenarios typically use 'safe words' to end abusive play at their choosing. Sohkar had a teamspeak disconnect button. He didn't press it.
4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.
5. Carebears and pansies joined Ripard Teg's witchhunt,
6. CCP did more 'research', six months after the event, and banned Erotica 1 from EvE online.
Now despite CCP not saying why exactly Erotica 1 was banned, and folks like Malcanis saying 'you dont have the full information', I think we have all the information we need...
By all appearances Erotica 1 was not banned because of a violation of TOS or EULA that CCP can honestly defend (or they would perhaps quote it), he was banned based on moral hand wringing by pansies and the fact people in power dont like him or his actions.
Welcome to the 'sandbox'. Be the villian...until someones feelings get hurt, then you are screwed.
p.s. Given Ripard Teg actually made real-world accusations about Erotica 1's real-world 'torture', 'harassment' and 'abuse' of Sohkar, I would find it entertaining indeed if Erotica 1 now successfully sued Ripard for publishing slanderous libel against him. For surely if Erotica 1's actions outside of the game were real acts of 'torture', 'harassment' etc, then equally Ripards comments are actionable for libel and slander if said acts weren't provable true in court?
F
That's a lot of words based on the mistaken assumption that the ban was because of something that happened out of game.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:23:00 -
[2115] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:That said, I don't believe that the TOS/EULA apply to me when I'm not logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. What I say or do when not in CCP's "sphere of control" is frankly none of their damned business. Doesn't matter. They can kick or ban or deny you service any time for any reason. They can do it because it rained in Iceland. They can do it because England is bad at cricket.
They can do it if you do something in game, out of game, or on another planet.
Do you understand this? They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
249
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:23:00 -
[2116] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Ill prolly respond more thoroughly after Ive had some sleep, but I wonder, if some nasty corp or alliance is DDoSing my corps teamspeak severs, can I ask CCP to handle the matter for me? Will they? Should they? Is it their problem? I'm not familiar enough with the techniques involved to know how easy it is to obtain reasonable proof that a particular party is responsible for such an attack, but to answer your question, sure, why not?
Next time it happens I'll file a petition on it. Ill let you guys know what the outcome is.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:25:00 -
[2117] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Now despite CCP not saying why exactly Erotica 1 was banned, and folks like Malcanis saying 'you dont have the full information', I think we have all the information we need... "I don't know what I am talking about, but I am going to carry on like I do know what I am talking about."
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
805
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:27:00 -
[2118] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:In short...
1. Erotica 1 was 'mean' out of game to another EvE player Sohkar.
2. Sohkar did not file criminal charges of harassment et al against Erotica 1, so real world harassment has not been proven in law. Erotica 1 hasn't been convicted of anything. More telling is that Sohkar has since made it clear he does not feel Erotica 1 harrassed him.
3. Additionally, it should be noted Dominatrixes in my area charge $140 for 1/2 of willing S&M or BDSM abuse, while Erotica 1 charged Sohkar nothing. Submissives in these scenarios typically use 'safe words' to end abusive play at their choosing. Sohkar had a teamspeak disconnect button. He didn't press it.
4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.
5. Carebears and pansies joined Ripard Teg's witchhunt,
6. CCP did more 'research', six months after the event, and banned Erotica 1 from EvE online.
Now despite CCP not saying why exactly Erotica 1 was banned, and folks like Malcanis saying 'you dont have the full information', I think we have all the information we need...
By all appearances Erotica 1 was not banned because of a violation of TOS or EULA that CCP can honestly defend (or they would perhaps quote it), he was banned based on moral hand wringing by pansies and the fact people in power dont like him or his actions.
Welcome to the 'sandbox'. Be the villian...until someones feelings get hurt, then you are screwed.
p.s. Given Ripard Teg actually made real-world accusations about Erotica 1's real-world 'torture', 'harassment' and 'abuse' of Sohkar, I would find it entertaining indeed if Erotica 1 now successfully sued Ripard for publishing slanderous libel against him. For surely if Erotica 1's actions outside of the game were real acts of 'torture', 'harassment' etc, then equally Ripards comments are actionable for libel and slander if said acts weren't provable true in court?
F That's a lot of words based on the mistaken assumption that the ban was because of something that happened out of game. Mr Epeen Remind me again what the title of this thread is, who posted it, and the timing of said post?
Would you like to know more? |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
805
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:29:00 -
[2119] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote: Doesn't matter. They can kick or ban or deny you service any time for any reason. They can do it because it rained in Iceland. They can do it because England is bad at cricket.
They can do it if you do something in game, out of game, or on another planet.
Do you understand this?
Can do and should do are two separate things....
What effect would non justifiable acts like you mentioned have on the perception of EvE by its player base, on the notion of 'sandbox'?
Carebear pansies don't care about 'sandbox', they want bubble-wrap-theme-park, but I assure you many players DO care and its why we are (still) here, fighting for it.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1058
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:31:00 -
[2120] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:In short...
1. Erotica 1 was 'mean' out of game to another EvE player Sohkar.
2. Sohkar did not file criminal charges of harassment et al against Erotica 1, so real world harassment has not been proven in law. Erotica 1 hasn't been convicted of anything. More telling is that Sohkar has since made it clear he does not feel Erotica 1 harrassed him.
3. Additionally, it should be noted Dominatrixes in my area charge $140 for 1/2 of willing S&M or BDSM abuse, while Erotica 1 charged Sohkar nothing. Submissives in these scenarios typically use 'safe words' to end abusive play at their choosing. Sohkar had a teamspeak disconnect button. He didn't press it.
4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.
5. Carebears and pansies joined Ripard Teg's witchhunt,
6. CCP did more 'research', six months after the event, and banned Erotica 1 from EvE online.
Now despite CCP not saying why exactly Erotica 1 was banned, and folks like Malcanis saying 'you dont have the full information', I think we have all the information we need...
By all appearances Erotica 1 was not banned because of a violation of TOS or EULA that CCP can honestly defend (or they would perhaps quote it), he was banned based on moral hand wringing by pansies and the fact people in power dont like him or his actions.
Welcome to the 'sandbox'. Be the villian...until someones feelings get hurt, then you are screwed.
p.s. Given Ripard Teg actually made real-world accusations about Erotica 1's real-world 'torture', 'harassment' and 'abuse' of Sohkar, I would find it entertaining indeed if Erotica 1 now successfully sued Ripard for publishing slanderous libel against him. For surely if Erotica 1's actions outside of the game were real acts of 'torture', 'harassment' etc, then equally Ripards comments are actionable for libel and slander if said acts weren't provable true in court?
F That's a lot of words based on the mistaken assumption that the ban was because of something that happened out of game. Mr Epeen But it was because of something out of game. The bonus room portion didn't occur in game, but some key points are being overlooked.
1. The out of game incident was prompted by an in game interaction which used CCP's properties, specifically the characters of the involved players 2. The EvE TOS/EULA are not meant to address criminal actions and have no place trying to do so. As such Sohkar not filing criminal charges is irrelevant. 3. I'd have hesitated pressing the disconnect button too if all my character's in game assets were in someone else' possession and doing so meant they would stay there. 4. Ripard is entitled to his opinion, just as others are entitled to disagree. |
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
249
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:41:00 -
[2121] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:That said, I don't believe that the TOS/EULA apply to me when I'm not logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. What I say or do when not in CCP's "sphere of control" is frankly none of their damned business. Doesn't matter. They can kick or ban or deny you service any time for any reason. They can do it because it rained in Iceland. They can do it because England is bad at cricket. They can do it if you do something in game, out of game, or on another planet. Do you understand this?
They can kick me because I'm gay, or Jewish, or Catholoic, or polyamorous, or a Republican, or a global warming denier.....
I get that. But I hope, as my examples have shown, that just because they CAN doesn't always mean it would be appropriate for them to in any and all situations, just because "they can." CCP realizes this too, which is why they have codified the TOS and EULA, and I dont know that they've ever banned or even given a warning to anyone for anything other than "violating the TOS/EULA."
And I think that's how it should be. We all agree to abide by the TOS/EULA, right? I do. When I'm in there house. I just don't think their TOS/EULA applies to me when I'm home in my house. Your party, your rules. My party, my rules. How are you going to punish me for breaking your house rules when I wasn't even in your house? I think a paying customer deserves a better explanation than your mantra of "because we can."
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Tarkelan
Konzil der Drei Weakend Warriors
13
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:41:00 -
[2122] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Carebear pansies don't care about 'sandbox', they want bubble-wrap-theme-park, but I assure you many players DO care and its why we are (still) here, fighting for it.
F
Could you stop that? Carebears care about the sandbox as much as griefers, gankers, PvPer, what ever you want to name them. Your cause is lost anyway. HTFU and move on.
|
Leto Thule
Sons of Retribution
540
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:46:00 -
[2123] - Quote
Tarkelan wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Carebear pansies don't care about 'sandbox', they want bubble-wrap-theme-park, but I assure you many players DO care and its why we are (still) here, fighting for it.
F
Could you stop that? Carebears care about the sandbox as much as griefers, gankers, PvPer, what ever you want to name them. Your cause is lost anyway. HTFU and move on.
I would wager you just found your way into kill-it-forward.... Killboard
https://zkillboard.com/character/90841161/ |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4949
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:48:00 -
[2124] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: 1. The out of game incident was prompted by an in game interaction which used CCP's properties, specifically the characters of the involved players 2. The EvE TOS/EULA are not meant to address criminal actions and have no place trying to do so. As such Sohkar not filing criminal charges is irrelevant. 3. I'd have hesitated pressing the disconnect button too if all my character's in game assets were in someone else' possession and doing so meant they would stay there. 4. Ripard is entitled to his opinion, just as others are entitled to disagree.
Exactly.
That's the part that certain people keep glossing over but is the only thing of import.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
251
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:48:00 -
[2125] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Then yes, they are entirely justified to act. Even if none of these criteria are met they are still allowed to act as per the stated ability to terminate service even without reason, but much harder to justify. As a customer of their services you are associated with their house, as E1's actions were associated with EvE despite not taking place in the client. If you represent my house, even when not in my house, I can tell you not to come back if you do something I don't approve of.
So if my neighbor who also plays Eve loans me his lawnmower and I don't give it back, he can petition me and I can get banned for it?
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1060
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:50:00 -
[2126] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:That said, I don't believe that the TOS/EULA apply to me when I'm not logged on to CCP's servers, using their products/services, etc. What I say or do when not in CCP's "sphere of control" is frankly none of their damned business. Doesn't matter. They can kick or ban or deny you service any time for any reason. They can do it because it rained in Iceland. They can do it because England is bad at cricket. They can do it if you do something in game, out of game, or on another planet. Do you understand this? They can kick me because I'm gay, or Jewish, or Catholoic, or polyamorous, or a Republican, or a global warming denier..... I get that. But I hope, as my examples have shown, that just because they CAN doesn't always mean it would be appropriate for them to in any and all situations, just because "they can." CCP realizes this too, which is why they have codified the TOS and EULA, and I dont know that they've ever banned or even given a warning to anyone for anything other than "violating the TOS/EULA." And I think that's how it should be. We all agree to abide by the TOS/EULA, right? I do. When I'm in there house. I just don't think their TOS/EULA applies to me when I'm home in my house. Your party, your rules. My party, my rules. How are you going to punish me for breaking your house rules when I wasn't even in your house? I think a paying customer deserves a better explanation than your mantra of "because we can." While there are extremes, it's also worth pointing out that one can affect CCP by engaging in activities as a player outside of the game that reflect back upon the game and it's creators. Just because it occured outside of the game does not mean that it can't or won't be taken as a reflection of CCP, the game, or it's playerbase, or prevent any negative affects that those associations can bring.
The best proof of that is the split of opinions in this community of players. I can only imagine the interpretations that perspective future customers might have of these events. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
808
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:50:00 -
[2127] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: But it was because of something out of game. The bonus room portion didn't occur in game, but some key points are being overlooked.
1. The out of game incident was prompted by an in game interaction which used CCP's properties, specifically the characters of the involved players 2. The EvE TOS/EULA are not meant to address criminal actions and have no place trying to do so. As such Sohkar not filing criminal charges is irrelevant. 3. I'd have hesitated pressing the disconnect button too if all my character's in game assets were in someone else' possession and doing so meant they would stay there. 4. Ripard is entitled to his opinion, just as others are entitled to disagree.
Sohkar not filing (and proving) charges of harassment in court is EXACTLY the point. Erotica 1 appears to have been banned for real life harassment (see thread title), yet no real life harassment has been proven in court. Many accused Erotica 1 of real life harassment as their main rallying cry to ban him remember?
Then Erotica 1 was tried in the court of pansy opinion, with CCP & CSM running a back-room star chamber.
I would indeed find it delicious if Erotica 1 successfully sued Ripard for publishing libelous false claims that he tortured Sohkar, which couldn't be defended in court as 'truth' when Sohkar himself has said he was NOT harassed.
F
Would you like to know more? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1060
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:55:00 -
[2128] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: But it was because of something out of game. The bonus room portion didn't occur in game, but some key points are being overlooked.
1. The out of game incident was prompted by an in game interaction which used CCP's properties, specifically the characters of the involved players 2. The EvE TOS/EULA are not meant to address criminal actions and have no place trying to do so. As such Sohkar not filing criminal charges is irrelevant. 3. I'd have hesitated pressing the disconnect button too if all my character's in game assets were in someone else' possession and doing so meant they would stay there. 4. Ripard is entitled to his opinion, just as others are entitled to disagree.
Sohkar not filing (and proving) charges of harassment in court is EXACTLY the point. Erotica 1 appears to have been banned for real life harassment (see thread title), yet no real life harassment has been proven in court. Many accused Erotica 1 of real life harassment as their main rallying cry to ban him remember? Then Erotica 1 was tried in the court of pansy opinion, with CCP & CSM running a back-room star chamber. I would indeed find it delicious if Erotica 1 successfully sued Ripard for publishing libelous false claims that he tortured Sohkar, which couldn't be defended in court as 'truth' when Sohkar himself has said he was NOT harassed. F You seem to be confused. CCP is not a criminal court. CCP is not obligated to use the same measures of harassment that a criminal court uses. CCP is not obligated to wait for a criminal investigation to take place. CCP's definition of harassment has been met, that is the ONLY definition that matters. This is why bringing criminal charges is irrelevant. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1060
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:01:00 -
[2129] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Then yes, they are entirely justified to act. Even if none of these criteria are met they are still allowed to act as per the stated ability to terminate service even without reason, but much harder to justify. As a customer of their services you are associated with their house, as E1's actions were associated with EvE despite not taking place in the client. If you represent my house, even when not in my house, I can tell you not to come back if you do something I don't approve of. So if my neighbor who also plays Eve loans me his lawnmower and I don't give it back, he can petition me and I can get banned for it? Neither of you have done anything to represent the act as being in any way eve online related, and would have a hard time justifying such an association, so no, probably not.
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
251
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:05:00 -
[2130] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: 1. The out of game incident was prompted by an in game interaction which used CCP's properties, specifically the characters of the involved players 2. The EvE TOS/EULA are not meant to address criminal actions and have no place trying to do so. As such Sohkar not filing criminal charges is irrelevant. 3. I'd have hesitated pressing the disconnect button too if all my character's in game assets were in someone else' possession and doing so meant they would stay there. 4. Ripard is entitled to his opinion, just as others are entitled to disagree.
Exactly. That's the part that certain people keep glossing over but is the only thing of import. Mr Epeen
I get it all. I think it's all off the mark and missing the point.
1. There were NO TOS/EULA violations in the in-game interaction.
2.The TOS/EULA specifically lay out what "criminal" (bad word choice, you'll see why in a minute) actions are. When you petition someone, you are petitioning because you believe they have "broken the rules," which means, you believe they have violated the TOS/EULA. That Sohkar didn't petition indicates that he didnt feel any rules were broken, and he would be correct, none were. Nothing happened at that point that doesn't happen hundreds of timesz a day, and CCP is fine with it.
As an aside, Sokhar did himself, however, commit an actual criminal (in the real and legal sense of the term) act when he started making threats of bodily harm against E1 and his family. Serious enough that E1 could have had him arrested. CCP didn't care about violating the TOS/EULA on his part at that point, so there's that pesky double standard again.
3. I understand the desire to try to at least get your money back, too. However, anyone objectively judging this case has to wonder why he didn't leave once he felt himself passing the point at which he could no longer control his emotions and behavior. Some judges may even say that Sokhar had a DUTY to leave once he felt that he was begining to lose control over himself.
4. Ripard's blog is a registered Fansite, is it not? That means it falls under CCP's TOS and EULA. It is against CCP's TOS and EULA to publicallu defame a fellow player. Have you read that blog post? Blatant TOS/EULA violations. From a CSM at that. No action was taken by CCP.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
251
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:08:00 -
[2131] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Then yes, they are entirely justified to act. Even if none of these criteria are met they are still allowed to act as per the stated ability to terminate service even without reason, but much harder to justify. As a customer of their services you are associated with their house, as E1's actions were associated with EvE despite not taking place in the client. If you represent my house, even when not in my house, I can tell you not to come back if you do something I don't approve of. So if my neighbor who also plays Eve loans me his lawnmower and I don't give it back, he can petition me and I can get banned for it? Neither of you have done anything to represent the act as being in any way eve online related, and would have a hard time justifying such an association, so no, probably not.
But what if CCP doesn't approve of me stealing his lawnmower?
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1060
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:12:00 -
[2132] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Then yes, they are entirely justified to act. Even if none of these criteria are met they are still allowed to act as per the stated ability to terminate service even without reason, but much harder to justify. As a customer of their services you are associated with their house, as E1's actions were associated with EvE despite not taking place in the client. If you represent my house, even when not in my house, I can tell you not to come back if you do something I don't approve of. So if my neighbor who also plays Eve loans me his lawnmower and I don't give it back, he can petition me and I can get banned for it? Neither of you have done anything to represent the act as being in any way eve online related, and would have a hard time justifying such an association, so no, probably not. But what if CCP doesn't approve of me stealing his lawnmower? See my edit. Not entertaining this further as it's too off topic to be relevant.
|
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:20:00 -
[2133] - Quote
Posting on page 100 |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1230
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:30:00 -
[2134] - Quote
There are no winners in this except for ripard teg who has removed a potential political opponent from eve, the rest of us do lose however as more theme park is built over the sandbox.
The biggest loser is sokhar whose character and in game reputation has been utterly destroyed making him toxic to any Corp he might want to join, despite the fact that he got over the manipulations of erotica1 and still carried on playing eve.
he didn't get over ripard tegs manipulations though and I don't think he ever will, the poor guy will probably have to make a new toon.
so who has done the most damage here? Erotica or Ripard Teg.
I hope Ripard Teg never campaigns on my behalf, I would really miss being able to play eve. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1060
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:31:00 -
[2135] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: 1. The out of game incident was prompted by an in game interaction which used CCP's properties, specifically the characters of the involved players 2. The EvE TOS/EULA are not meant to address criminal actions and have no place trying to do so. As such Sohkar not filing criminal charges is irrelevant. 3. I'd have hesitated pressing the disconnect button too if all my character's in game assets were in someone else' possession and doing so meant they would stay there. 4. Ripard is entitled to his opinion, just as others are entitled to disagree.
Exactly. That's the part that certain people keep glossing over but is the only thing of import. Mr Epeen I get it all. I think it's all off the mark and missing the point. 1. There were NO TOS/EULA violations in the in-game interaction. 2.The TOS/EULA specifically lay out what "criminal" (bad word choice, you'll see why in a minute) actions are. When you petition someone, you are petitioning because you believe they have "broken the rules," which means, you believe they have violated the TOS/EULA. That Sohkar didn't petition indicates that he didnt feel any rules were broken, and he would be correct, none were. Nothing happened at that point that doesn't happen hundreds of timesz a day, and CCP is fine with it. As an aside, Sokhar did himself, however, commit an actual criminal (in the real and legal sense of the term) act when he started making threats of bodily harm against E1 and his family. Serious enough that E1 could have had him arrested. CCP didn't care about violating the TOS/EULA on his part at that point, so there's that pesky double standard again. 3. I understand the desire to try to at least get your money back, too. However, anyone objectively judging this case has to wonder why he didn't leave once he felt himself passing the point at which he could no longer control his emotions and behavior. Some judges may even say that Sokhar had a DUTY to leave once he felt that he was begining to lose control over himself. 4. Ripard's blog is a registered Fansite, is it not? That means it falls under CCP's TOS and EULA. It is against CCP's TOS and EULA to publicallu defame a fellow player. Have you read that blog post? Blatant TOS/EULA violations. From a CSM at that. No action was taken by CCP. 1. That would matter if the ban was based on the in game interaction, it wasn't. What they failed to realize was that they still represent the game even after moving the conversation to a private server should that recording ever become public 2. The TOS/EULA states they can ban based upon potential reputation damage. In that case the petitioner would be CCP itself, not Sohkar. It's speculation, but how many bonus rooms are there? Are those really happening hundreds of times a day? 3. Indeed, which is why it's disappointing that he himself didn't receive some form of discipline for that failure and the language that resulted, but that wasn't the point of the original post I was addressing 4. So it's against the EULA to find another players actions reprehensible? Maybe I need to reread the blog, I personally didn't find it to be objectionable in the ways described, though admittedly I haven't looked in over a week. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
252
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:49:00 -
[2136] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:[ 1. That would matter if the ban was based on the in game interaction, it wasn't. What they failed to realize was that they still represent the game even after moving the conversation to a private server should that recording ever become public
Im still on the fence on this one. Ive heard some pretty nasty things bantied about on various TS servers, things that actually offended ME (u believe that? lol) but I wouldnt dream oof going to CCP with it, because I view it as outside their jurisdiction.
Making it public, though, not yet sure what my opinion is regarding if that makes a reasonable difference here or not.
Quote: 2. The TOS/EULA states they can ban based upon potential reputation damage. In that case the petitioner would be CCP itself, not Sohkar. It's speculation, but how many bonus rooms are there? Are those really happening hundreds of times a day?
In lesser degress, I know it happens every day, many times a day, maybe not hundreds, tho. My point is that scamming ...what shall we call them? ...people who are easily taken advatage of... is perfectly within the bounds of acceptable gameplay.
Quote: 3. Indeed, which is why it's disappointing that he himself didn't receive some form of discipline for that failure and the language that resulted, but that wasn't the point of the original post I was addressing
I agree. If they were gonna ban 1 they should have banned them all, including the victim, and the "agents."
Quote: 4. So it's against the EULA to find another players actions reprehensible? Maybe I need to reread the blog, I personally didn't find it to be objectionable in the ways described, though admittedly I haven't looked in over a week.
Yeah he makes really derrogatry personal remarls about players by name, and that's a no no.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 23:32:00 -
[2137] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:There are no winners in this except for ripard teg who has removed a potential political opponent from eve Ripard wasn't going to run for the CSM next cycle anyway.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 23:42:00 -
[2138] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:What effect would non justifiable acts like you mentioned have on the perception of EvE by its player base, on the notion of 'sandbox'? I think this thread is a great example of how 99% of the playerbase either doesn't care or is happy with their "non-justifiable acts".
Look, you agreed to the EULA. No one forced you to. Why did you agree if you now want to retroactively complain about the terms you choose freely?
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Carebear pansies don't care about 'sandbox', they want bubble-wrap-theme-park, but I assure you many players DO care and its why we are (still) here, fighting for it. If by many you mean less than 10 people, ok.
Keep tilting at windmills. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
875
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 00:14:00 -
[2139] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:What effect would non justifiable acts like you mentioned have on the perception of EvE by its player base, on the notion of 'sandbox'? I think this thread is a great example of how 99% of the playerbase either doesn't care or is happy with their "non-justifiable acts". Look, you agreed to the EULA. No one forced you to. Why did you agree if you now want to retroactively complain about the terms you choose freely? Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Carebear pansies don't care about 'sandbox', they want bubble-wrap-theme-park, but I assure you many players DO care and its why we are (still) here, fighting for it. If by many you mean less than 10 people, ok. Keep tilting at windmills.
I think you are greatly missing the overall points being made.
To sit back in November and say everything is ok, only to change your position a few months later amidst a witch hunt doesn't seem very consistent. If the bonus room is truly a den of evil, then why was it not dealt with back in November? Or heck even in February when this particular incident first surfaced.
I am all for people getting disciplined when they step across the line. But there needs to be at least some semblance of consistency. This particular case screams appeasing mob mentality.
And frankly I don't care if you agree with the ban or not, catering to the mob is never a good reason to issue discipline to a player. If you want a "clean" community, then you need to be consistent with your actions, not arbitrarily ban people based on the number of people shouting at you to do it, or the mediums which they use to express outrage. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4958
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 00:50:00 -
[2140] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote: To sit back in November and say everything is ok, only to change your position a few months later amidst a witch hunt doesn't seem very consistent. If the bonus room is truly a den of evil, then why was it not dealt with back in November? Or heck even in February when this particular incident first surfaced.
Come on Mario. You've been around since at least 2010 (or longer if you are an alt). Not as long as many here but long enough to answer what I'm about to ask.
When have you ever...ever...seen CCP act on anything the least bit controversial before having it wiped in front of the entire forum at least and the mainstream media at most?
Lack of action is not approval as you are implying. It's just lack of action, period.
The fact that any of you people even ask why it took them so long smacks of utter stupidity or maximum troll. With you, I'm going to go for troll because I know you are not stupid. I can see where you people are , albeit wrongly, coming from with many of your opinions. Some I'd even grant concessions to you having a smallish point with your arguments.
But this? This is just fodder for laughter.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
589
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 01:25:00 -
[2141] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Speaking of general media, I wonder what the larger gaming community as a whole will think of CCP apparently asserting (through it's actions) that their TOS and EULA extends outside of the game and into the personal lives and private property of it's players.
And not giving a **** about the racism and irl threats the victim made? It doesnt matter whether somethign neither of us can prove or disprove did or didnt happen. His Alliance mates did.
If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?
Good for the goose = good for Gander PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
589
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 01:28:00 -
[2142] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Ill prolly respond more thoroughly after Ive had some sleep, but I wonder, if some nasty corp or alliance is DDoSing my corps teamspeak severs, can I ask CCP to handle the matter for me? Will they? Should they? Is it their problem? I'm not familiar enough with the techniques involved to know how easy it is to obtain reasonable proof that a particular party is responsible for such an attack, but to answer your question, sure, why not?
LOL cause THATS not a can of worms here
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4960
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 01:41:00 -
[2143] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?
Good for the goose = good for Gander
Please link to a DEV post stating it was because of the TS that he was banned. Else stop spouting lies.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
589
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 01:43:00 -
[2144] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: 4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.
Which SOKHAR disagreed with which is why he NEVER REPORTED HIM - which IMO is the worst part of it PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
589
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 01:44:00 -
[2145] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:In short...
1. Erotica 1 was 'mean' out of game to another EvE player Sohkar.
2. Sohkar did not file criminal charges of harassment et al against Erotica 1, so real world harassment has not been proven in law. Erotica 1 hasn't been convicted of anything. More telling is that Sohkar has since made it clear he does not feel Erotica 1 harrassed him.
3. Additionally, it should be noted Dominatrixes in my area charge $140 for 1/2 of willing S&M or BDSM abuse, while Erotica 1 charged Sohkar nothing. Submissives in these scenarios typically use 'safe words' to end abusive play at their choosing. Sohkar had a teamspeak disconnect button. He didn't press it.
4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.
5. Carebears and pansies joined Ripard Teg's witchhunt,
6. CCP did more 'research', six months after the event, and banned Erotica 1 from EvE online.
Now despite CCP not saying why exactly Erotica 1 was banned, and folks like Malcanis saying 'you dont have the full information', I think we have all the information we need...
By all appearances Erotica 1 was not banned because of a violation of TOS or EULA that CCP can honestly defend (or they would perhaps quote it), he appears to have been banned based on moral hand wringing by pansies and the fact people in power dont like him or his actions.
Welcome to the 'sandbox'. Be the villian...until someones feelings get hurt, then you are screwed.
p.s. Given Ripard Teg may have actually made real-world accusations about Erotica 1's 'torture', 'harassment' and 'abuse' of Sohkar, I would find it entertaining indeed if Erotica 1 now successfully sued Ripard for publishing slanderous libel against him. For surely if Erotica 1's actions outside of the game were real acts of 'torture', 'harassment' etc, then equally Ripards comments are actionable for libel and slander if said acts weren't provable true in court?
F
and btw bump the hell out of this post
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
589
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 01:57:00 -
[2146] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:In short...
1. Erotica 1 was 'mean' out of game to another EvE player Sohkar.
2. Sohkar did not file criminal charges of harassment et al against Erotica 1, so real world harassment has not been proven in law. Erotica 1 hasn't been convicted of anything. More telling is that Sohkar has since made it clear he does not feel Erotica 1 harrassed him.
3. Additionally, it should be noted Dominatrixes in my area charge $140 for 1/2 of willing S&M or BDSM abuse, while Erotica 1 charged Sohkar nothing. Submissives in these scenarios typically use 'safe words' to end abusive play at their choosing. Sohkar had a teamspeak disconnect button. He didn't press it.
4. Ripard Teg however felt Sohkar was 'abused', 'harassed' and 'tortured' in real life, and in his holy estimation of morality that Erotica 1 should be removed from taking part in in-game EvE gameplay.
5. Carebears and pansies joined Ripard Teg's witchhunt,
6. CCP did more 'research', six months after the event, and banned Erotica 1 from EvE online.
Now despite CCP not saying why exactly Erotica 1 was banned, and folks like Malcanis saying 'you dont have the full information', I think we have all the information we need...
By all appearances Erotica 1 was not banned because of a violation of TOS or EULA that CCP can honestly defend (or they would perhaps quote it), he was banned based on moral hand wringing by pansies and the fact people in power dont like him or his actions.
Welcome to the 'sandbox'. Be the villian...until someones feelings get hurt, then you are screwed.
p.s. Given Ripard Teg actually made real-world accusations about Erotica 1's real-world 'torture', 'harassment' and 'abuse' of Sohkar, I would find it entertaining indeed if Erotica 1 now successfully sued Ripard for publishing slanderous libel against him. For surely if Erotica 1's actions outside of the game were real acts of 'torture', 'harassment' etc, then equally Ripards comments are actionable for libel and slander if said acts weren't provable true in court?
F That's a lot of words based on the mistaken assumption that the ban was because of something that happened out of game. Mr Epeen Remind me again what the title of this thread is, who posted it, and the timing of said post?
Title:
"Im CSM I can troll and duplicate post and not get moderated"
Malcanis PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
589
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 02:03:00 -
[2147] - Quote
Tarkelan wrote:
Could you stop that? Carebears care about the sandbox as much as griefers, gankers, PvPer, what ever you want to name them.
Quote: Your cause is lost anyway. HTFU and move on.
HTFU no longer applies. Its "if youre angry/saddened, blog and get them banned" PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
589
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 02:05:00 -
[2148] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?
Good for the goose = good for Gander
Please link to a DEV post stating it was because of the TS that he was banned. Else stop spouting lies. Mr Epeen
Please link to the DEV post where they deny it was because of TS he was banned Else stop spouting lies
Antisocial Malkavian PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
256
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 02:46:00 -
[2149] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote: Look, you agreed to the EULA. No one forced you to. Why did you agree if you now want to retroactively complain about the terms you choose freely?
Why do you still not get that noone has a problem with agreeing to the EULA? It's been stated ad infinitum that the issue is some people dont feel that the EULA applies outside of the game.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
256
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 02:52:00 -
[2150] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?
Good for the goose = good for Gander
Please link to a DEV post stating it was because of the TS that he was banned. Else stop spouting lies. Mr Epeen
Cmon, Mr Epeen, I think a little deductive logic goes a long way here. The title of this thread is "An Announcment Regarding Real Life Harassment. "Real Life" implies outside of the game. The disapproved-of confrontation between E1 and Sokhar took place in Real Life. Since the only Real Life interactions there have ever been between Sokhar and E1 were on TS, I don't think there's any leap in logic to say that the "Real Life Harassment" being referred to is, dare I say it, obviously because of the TS.
It's very disingenuous of you to say that people are "spouting lies" in reference to this easy to understand fact.
edit:grammar. Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
647
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 03:14:00 -
[2151] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Why do you still not get that noone has a problem with agreeing to the EULA? It's been stated ad infinitum that the issue is some people dont feel that the EULA applies outside of the game. How did CCP apply it outside the game? Did CCP go to Erotica1's house? Did they take away his bank account? Did they make him wear a prison jumpsuit?
Their action against Erotica1 was in game, with regards to the game.
They can decide on a whim who plays Eve, and their whim may be based on factors out of game, it might be based on the weather, or what Hilmar had for lunch etc.
YOU AGREED TO THAT IN THE EULA.
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
258
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 03:24:00 -
[2152] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Why do you still not get that noone has a problem with agreeing to the EULA? It's been stated ad infinitum that the issue is some people dont feel that the EULA applies outside of the game. How did CCP apply it outside the game? Did CCP go to Erotica1's house? Did they take away his bank account? Did they make him wear a prison jumpsuit? Their action against Erotica1 was in game, with regards to the game.
Yes, their action against E1 was in-game, as a response to something he did outside of the game. In other words, they decided that the EULA applies to your actions outside of the game as well as within the game. I'm starting to wonder if you're just trolling, because this has been explained to you in the simplest of terms many, many times, and yet you still act as though you don't understand the point people are making. You English and grammar are ok, so I have a hard time believing your'e as dumb as you would have to be to still not get it at this point.
Did you know that trolling is against the forum rules?
Quote: They can decide on a whim who plays Eve, and their whim may be based on factors out of game, it might be based on the weather, or what Hilmar had for lunch etc.
YOU AGREED TO THAT IN THE EULA.
Does it say somewhere in the EULA that it applies to anything other than my usage of CCP software? Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4965
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 03:37:00 -
[2153] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
If they can use the TS to ban Erotica1, why cant they use the same evidence for Sokhar?
Good for the goose = good for Gander
Please link to a DEV post stating it was because of the TS that he was banned. Else stop spouting lies. Mr Epeen Cmon, Mr Epeen, I think a little deductive logic goes a long way here. The title of this thread is "An Announcment Regarding Real Life Harassment. "Real Life" implies outside of the game. The disapproved-of confrontation between E1 and Sokhar took place in Real Life. Since the only Real Life interactions there have ever been between Sokhar and E1 were on TS, I don't think there's any leap in logic to say that the "Real Life Harassment" being referred to is, dare I say it, obviously because of the TS. It's very disingenuous of you to say that people are "spouting lies" in reference to this easy to understand fact. edit:grammar.
You raise a good point. I'll give you that. That is in fact the title of the thread.
My inclination is that, as they do most of the time, Devs don't do a very good job of communicating the issue in their statements. There's nothing concrete that I can point to in this thread to back up that feeling. It's just based on 7+ years spent in the game and the many ambiguous statements I've read through over the years.
Nonetheless, without a definitive answer we can only speculate on the specific reason for the ban. To my mind, Erotica1 opening them up to legal liability by using their game as a tool for his antics makes the most sense to me as the reason. That's my considered opinion as I have stated before. Also as I repeatedly stated, CCP will never tell us the reason. Your thoughts and opinions on this carry as much weight as mine.
But when you state continually opinion as a fact and willfully misquote and misrepresent what you quote, it crosses the line into lies and defamation. (Malk). I feel no remorse in calling him out for the idiot that he plays at being in these threads.
But for you I will just agree to disagree since there is no way, short of bribing a Dev, that we'll ever know which of us is right.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
647
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 04:03:00 -
[2154] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Yes, their action against E1 was in-game, as a response to something he did outside of the game. You don't know that. They have never said why they did what they did. Nor should they have to.
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:In other words, they decided that the EULA applies to your actions outside of the game as well as within the game. I already said that they can decide on a whim. They don't need a reason, and they don't need to explain it to you either.
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:I'm starting to wonder if you're just trolling, because this has been explained to you in the simplest of terms many, many times, and yet you still act as though you don't understand the point people are making. Your English and grammar are ok, so I have a hard time believing your'e as dumb as you would have to be to still not get it at this point. And from my side, I have wondered if you're trolling or just being dumb, because I cannot say it enough different ways. CCP can decide they don't want you to play because you're a conservative. Or because you like to eat meat. Or because your eye color is blue.
They don't need to justify their decision to anyone, and they don't need to explain it to you. That's what the EULA allows for, and you agreed to it. So I really don't understand all of this post hoc crying about out of game, in game bla bla bla.
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Does it say somewhere in the EULA that it applies to anything other than my usage of CCP software? Please don't make me repeat myself again. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
258
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 04:11:00 -
[2155] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Yes, their action against E1 was in-game, as a response to something he did outside of the game. You don't know that. They have never said why they did what they did. Nor should they have to.
Look at the title of this thread. REAL LIFE HARASSMENT
You're not that stupid. Stubborn, yes, but not stupid. You're continuing to argue for the sake of argument, without acknowledging or even countering any of the points people are making, you're just spouting the same lines over and over again. You're a troll and I'm not going to feed you anymore.
Fly safe.
o7
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
647
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 04:16:00 -
[2156] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Look at the title of this thread. REAL LIFE HARASSMENT And?
CCP made an announcement about Real Life Harassment. They never said anything about Erotica1, did they?
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:You're not that stupid. Stubborn, yes, but not stupid. You're continuing to argue for the sake of argument, without acknowledging or even countering any of the points people are making, you're just spouting the same lines over and over again. You're a troll and I'm not going to feed you anymore. Fly safe. o7 I honestly, and seriously cannot believe you refuse to understand what I have posted. It's mind boggling to me that you agreed to the EULA without reading it, and now cannot understand that CCP is allowed by said EULA to kick anyone from the game, for ANY REASON.
Yes, including real life harassment. Or using Teamspeak. Or dying their hair blue.
ANY REASON.
And to boot, they don't owe any of us an explanation.
You agreed to this. I agreed to this.
Where is the problem then with kicking someone with something said out of game on Teamspeak for example?
Answer, there isn't one. And all of your posts have been complaining about something you agreed to, but apparently did not, and perhaps CANNOT understand.
ok? They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
599
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 06:36:00 -
[2157] - Quote
Wanna read something funny in the its in the EULA QQ idea?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement#Shrink-wrap_and_click-wrap_licenses
Quote:The enforceability of an EULA depends on several factors, one of them being the court in which the case is heard. Some courts that have addressed the validity of the shrinkwrap license agreements have found some EULAs to be invalid, characterizing them as contracts of adhesion, unconscionable, and/or unacceptable pursuant to the U.C.C.GÇösee, for instance, Step-Saver Data Systems, Inc. v. Wyse Technology,[4] Vault Corp. v. Quaid Software Ltd..[5] Other courts have determined that the shrinkwrap license agreement is valid and enforceable: see ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg,[6] Microsoft v. Harmony Computers,[7] Novell v. Network Trade Center,[8] and Ariz. Cartridge Remanufacturers Ass'n v. Lexmark Int'l, Inc.[9] may have some bearing as well. No court has ruled on the validity of EULAs generally; decisions are limited to particular provisions and terms.
lol EULAs PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
89
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:09:00 -
[2158] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:You folks need to get of the Erotica1 ****. Whats done is done. The issue is what precedent CCP has established.
Which is cave to mob mentality. And to give a free pass to racial slurs and threats of real-life violence and murder so long as it's because the other guy pissed you off. I'll let Malcanis answer that one: Malcanis wrote:You want CCP to ban erotica1 for deliberately tormenting a player until he loses control, and then also ban the player for losing control? Is that right?
Really, you should be relieved that Sokhar hasn't been banned; it demonstrates that the GMs are capable of understanding context, and they will empathise with the circumstances, and they can tell the difference between something said in the heat of the moment and something said with actual intent. So you can relax and not worry about being banned for a trivial or flippant statement on private comms, of whatever other ridiculous scenarios are being bandied about.
And Malcanis is an idiot for the following reason,
All death threats are provoked by a negative emotional response by definition, otherwise there would by no reason to make the threat. Essentially what his quote says everyone who is arrested and serves a jail sentence for "Terroristic Threats" should be released, because they were in a rage based on someone elses behavior towards them. Let me know how well that argument would hold up in a court of law. Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2939
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:29:00 -
[2159] - Quote
Welcome to the New Eve, where you can write an inflammatory blog post, claim an individual you don't like is literally a torturer (or rapist, as Ripard has done before) and get them banned for stupid, trifling things like making someone sing a song.
Welcome to the themepark Ripard has been dreaming of since he first mistakenly started playing
Edit: I also don't quite agree with Malcanis' reasoning for being happy sohkar isn't banned, as he's arguing that someone issuing real life death threats and spewing racist remarks is, in certain contexts, allowable. That's another dangerous, stupid precedent to set.
At the same time, I am happy sohkar isn't banned because I don't think he should be banned for an emotional outburst made entirely outside of EVE and all other CCPs services... but thats where the inconsistency comes in, since Ero was banned |
Salvos Rhoska
970
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:35:00 -
[2160] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote: And Malcanis is an idiot for the following reason,
You dun goofed, Ms.Mad-Alt ------------ |
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
89
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:39:00 -
[2161] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote: And Malcanis is an idiot for the following reason,
You dun goofed, Ms.Mad-Alt
goofed about telling the truth? Also this is my main so you know where you can stick it.
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4341
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 08:51:00 -
[2162] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Welcome to the New Eve, where you can write an inflammatory blog post, claim an individual you don't like is literally a torturer (or rapist, as Ripard has done before) and get them banned for stupid, trifling things like making someone sing a song.
Welcome to the themepark Ripard has been dreaming of since he first mistakenly started playing
Edit: I also don't quite agree with Malcanis' reasoning for being happy sohkar isn't banned, as he's arguing that someone issuing real life death threats and spewing racist remarks is, in certain contexts, allowable. That's another dangerous, stupid precedent to set.
At the same time, I am happy sohkar isn't banned because I don't think he should be banned for an emotional outburst made entirely outside of EVE and all other CCPs services... but thats where the inconsistency comes in, since Ero was banned
This is a pretty good summation about one point I have had an issue with since this whole bullshittery started.
Death threats, especially long and descriptive ones, are ok NEVER. No freaking context, no "empathy" with the douchebag spouting them, and no freaking extenuating circumstances. Especially not when those circumstances consist of losing your pixels.
CCP seems to have far too much tolerance for real life threats when they are addressed at the "bad guy" players, from what I have seen.
If they are comfortable taking third party sources as evidence for this, then how do any of the miners listed here still have active accounts? Clearly CCP doesn't need a petition to act, either, as they've established with the E1 situation.
So what's the deal? How are any of these freaking people still playing the game?
Scumbag Miners wrote: "I would like you to commit suicide, is that clear enough?"
"I believe people like you should be strung up on a pole out side of town and left for the animals"
"If I find out where you live, I'll come by and put a bullet in your fat head"
"you will be dead by then as your social life will bring you to major depression and you will hang yourself"
"when you decide to blow your brains out please make sure to stream it live because I'll enjoy knowing that another loser has offed himself"
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Salvos Rhoska
971
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:00:00 -
[2163] - Quote
Some people (and their numerous alts) here should be careful what they say, so they don't contradict what they said in the threadnaught :) ------------ |
Soltys
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:14:00 -
[2164] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
And that turns the whole discussion about the recent events into a mockery. Do you know why ?
Because people consider you HYPOCRITES by now. And one doesn't have serious discussion with hypocrites - because there's no point to it for obvious reasons.
You claim A and do B - and what is more saddening - apply it selectively on your whim and personal preferences.
- Someone is in bed with CCP (csm, friend of one, friend of gm, whatever else) ? Have fun. - No connections ? Sucks to be you.
Any discussions related directly or indirectly to E1 on the forum - unless the CCP cleans up their backyard (and that means a) unbanning E1 /or/ b) banning both Sokhar (RL threats) as well as majority of other scammers that ever did anything involving out of game communication channels) - is a farce.
And a bit on a side note, recollecting all the information about the "incident". I don't get it tbh. Sokhar - hands down 100% willingly everything he owns on the account to a well known scammer - which makes Sokhar a total imbecile with masochistic tendentions - and then again 100% willingly proceeds to play eve/voip minigames (ones almost as old as EvE itself) - then makes a big fuss about it inc. real life threats and then .... E1 gets banned ?
What the **** ? Real life harrasment ******* where on E1's side ? Real life threats on Sokhar's side - check. Why is he still in game ?
|
Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
83
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:20:00 -
[2165] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: Sohkar not filing (and proving) charges of harassment in court is EXACTLY the point. Erotica 1 appears to have been banned for real life harassment (see thread title), yet no real life harassment has been proven in court. Many accused Erotica 1 of real life harassment as their main rallying cry to ban him remember?
Sophistry, pettifogging and general hair-splitting. You might do well as a lawyer.
CCP perceived a threat to their reputation and took action against the person bringing their name and business into disrepute.
If someone threatened your livelihood wouldn't you do all in your power to protect yourself?
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
90
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:21:00 -
[2166] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Some people (and their numerous alts) here should be careful what they say, so they don't contradict what they said in the threadnaught :)
Bad troll is bad 0/10...
Almost everyone of my posts state that if what Erotica did was bad enough to be banned then the Escrow agents in the same bonus room should be banned with him. But they weren't so obvious witch hunt is obvious.
Your argument as to why sohkar shouldn't be banned just shows how much of a moron you are, but by all means continue believing your right. I find it cute
Also I have only one other character and she is my hauler/industrial alt that has never posted on the forum at all so please do keep making yourself look bad by saying I'm an alt of someone else
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
899
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:26:00 -
[2167] - Quote
Jaxon Grylls wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: Sohkar not filing (and proving) charges of harassment in court is EXACTLY the point. Erotica 1 appears to have been banned for real life harassment (see thread title), yet no real life harassment has been proven in court. Many accused Erotica 1 of real life harassment as their main rallying cry to ban him remember?
Sophistry, pettifogging and general hair-splitting. You might do well as a lawyer. CCP perceived a threat to their reputation and took action against the person bringing their name and business into disrepute. If someone threatened your livelihood wouldn't you do all in your power to protect yourself?
You must be kidding? A Game where about every news item, youtube recording, blog post, etc... EVER consist of people scamming, stealing, mocking, crying, swearing and all the jazz suddenly would get bad press because someone made someone else sing songs? Djees louise...
CCP even employs the most die-hard of them to promote their venue? Are you purposely being obtuse?
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Salvos Rhoska
971
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:26:00 -
[2168] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:shows how much of a moron you are
Oooooooh. You wound me deeply. ------------ |
SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
377
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:30:00 -
[2169] - Quote
Soltys wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team And that turns the whole discussion about the recent events into a mockery. Do you know why ? Because people consider you HYPOCRITES by now. And one doesn't have serious discussion with hypocrites - because there's no point to it for obvious reasons. You claim A and do B - and what is more saddening - apply it selectively on your whim and personal preferences. - Someone is in bed with CCP (csm, friend of one, friend of gm, whatever else) ? Have fun. - No connections ? Sucks to be you. Any discussions related directly or indirectly to E1 on the forum - unless the CCP cleans up their backyard (and that means a) unbanning E1 /or/ b) banning both Sokhar (RL threats) as well as majority of other scammers that ever did anything involving out of game communication channels) - is a farce. And a bit on a side note, recollecting all the information about the "incident". I don't get it tbh. Sokhar - hands down 100% willingly everything he owns on the account to a well known scammer - which makes Sokhar a total imbecile with masochistic tendentions - and then again 100% willingly proceeds to play eve/voip minigames (ones almost as old as EvE itself) - then makes a big fuss about it inc. real life threats and then .... E1 gets banned ? What the **** ? Real life harrasment ******* where on E1's side ? Real life threats on Sokhar's side - check. Why is he still in game ? Well said to be honest, also just saw this: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-01-was-ccp-right-to-ban-this-eve-online-player
""If Bonus Rounds were a problem, CCP should have let me know," he concluded. "Instead, they accepted biased opinions as fact and made a decision based on poor perceptions of what the media might think." very true
also salvos is indeed a very bad troll - he wasn't trying to wound you, just stating the obvious !BURN! I disagree |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
93
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:31:00 -
[2170] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:shows how much of a moron you are Oooooooh. You wound me deeply.
Whatever, I have better things to do with my time then argue with a troll. Come talk to me after you grow up a little.
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
|
Salvos Rhoska
971
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:35:00 -
[2171] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:shows how much of a moron you are Oooooooh. You wound me deeply. Whatever, I have better things to do with my time then argue with a troll. Come talk to me after you grow up a little.
>>Calls me a moron. >>Calls Malcanis an idiot. >>Calls everyone else a troll.
>>No responsibility for own words.
NOPEYNOPE.JPG ------------ |
Salvos Rhoska
971
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:40:00 -
[2172] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:shows how much of a moron you are Oooooooh. You wound me deeply. Whatever, I have better things to do with my time then argue with a troll. Come talk to me after you grow up a little. >>Calls me a moron. >>Calls Malcanis an idiot. >>Calls everyone else a troll. >>No responsibility for own words. NOPEYNOPE.JPG Sorry Call it as I see it. Again prove that I'm alt of someone else.
And I'm calling you and the rest of the whiners here butthurt alts. Sorry. Call it as I see it :) ------------ |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
899
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:42:00 -
[2173] - Quote
Also: Learn to read; He is calling you a troll Forgetting to mention how much of a moron and an idiot we and our alts all think you are.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Salvos Rhoska
971
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:44:00 -
[2174] - Quote
Danalee wrote:D.
HELLO POTATO ------------ |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
899
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:44:00 -
[2175] - Quote
To get back on track after yet another failed attmempt to cry the truth away from salvos the moron;
SKINE DMZ wrote:Soltys wrote:CCP Falcon wrote:Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior.
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team And that turns the whole discussion about the recent events into a mockery. Do you know why ? Because people consider you HYPOCRITES by now. And one doesn't have serious discussion with hypocrites - because there's no point to it for obvious reasons. You claim A and do B - and what is more saddening - apply it selectively on your whim and personal preferences. - Someone is in bed with CCP (csm, friend of one, friend of gm, whatever else) ? Have fun. - No connections ? Sucks to be you. Any discussions related directly or indirectly to E1 on the forum - unless the CCP cleans up their backyard (and that means a) unbanning E1 /or/ b) banning both Sokhar (RL threats) as well as majority of other scammers that ever did anything involving out of game communication channels) - is a farce. And a bit on a side note, recollecting all the information about the "incident". I don't get it tbh. Sokhar - hands down 100% willingly everything he owns on the account to a well known scammer - which makes Sokhar a total imbecile with masochistic tendentions - and then again 100% willingly proceeds to play eve/voip minigames (ones almost as old as EvE itself) - then makes a big fuss about it inc. real life threats and then .... E1 gets banned ? What the **** ? Real life harrasment ******* where on E1's side ? Real life threats on Sokhar's side - check. Why is he still in game ? Well said to be honest, also just saw this: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-01-was-ccp-right-to-ban-this-eve-online-player""If Bonus Rounds were a problem, CCP should have let me know," he concluded. "Instead, they accepted biased opinions as fact and made a decision based on poor perceptions of what the media might think." very true also salvos is indeed a very bad troll - he wasn't trying to wound you, just stating the obvious !BURN!
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
378
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:49:00 -
[2176] - Quote
inb4 even more how torture is bad and studies proof how you can keep someone unwillingly in an environment against their will (that are actually not related to virtual gaming worlds or teamspeak servers in any way). I disagree |
Salvos Rhoska
971
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:49:00 -
[2177] - Quote
HELLO POTATO!
I R MORAN AND IDITO!
WAT HAPPENING HURRR? ------------ |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
93
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:51:00 -
[2178] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: And I'm calling you and the rest of the whiners here butthurt alts. Sorry. Call it as I see it :)
I love how you don't have an argument so you resort to saying everyone who disagrees with you is an alt. What exactly does that make you Mr. Lawyer? How about try posting on your main before calling anyone else an alt.
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
378
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:54:00 -
[2179] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: And I'm calling you and the rest of the whiners here butthurt alts. Sorry. Call it as I see it :)
I love how you don't have an argument so you resort to saying everyone who disagrees with you is an alt. What exactly does that make you Mr. Lawyer? How about try posting on your main before calling anyone else an alt. -points hand in air memememe
A butthurt alt? I disagree |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
270
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:59:00 -
[2180] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:And I'm calling you and the rest of the whiners here butthurt alts. Sorry. Call it as I see it :)
That's right, we're all alts of CSM9 candidates. Take a read at some of our posts on our mains.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=5971
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
|
Salvos Rhoska
973
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:01:00 -
[2181] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:That's right, we're all alts of CSM9 candidates
Thanks for confirmation.
Seemed like butthurt alt associates of Erotica1 crying cos no more profit or faprecordings. But your confession works just as good :) ------------ |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
94
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:07:00 -
[2182] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:That's right, we're all alts of CSM9 candidates Thanks for confirmation. Seemed like butthurt alt associates of Erotica1 crying cos no more profit or faprecordings. But your confession works just as good :)
I'm pretty sure he was trolling, but someone as smart as you (Seeing as such you went through law school Mr. Lawyer) you probably know that. Right?
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
973
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:09:00 -
[2183] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:I'm pretty sure he was trolling
What is this "trolling" of which you speak?
Asia Leigh wrote:someone as smart as you
Aaah yes. Thank you for acknowledging my towering intellect. ------------ |
SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
379
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:12:00 -
[2184] - Quote
Salvos, you actually had something to say in the beginning, save yourself embarrassment and stop, let the guys who do have something to say get on with venting their BS in this thread. I disagree |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
94
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:15:00 -
[2185] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:I'm pretty sure he was trolling What is this "trolling" of which you speak?
Pretty much what I'm doing now. Waiting for some files to come over our system at work and got bored, so I thought I'd give ISD a good read by putting you in your place before the last 3 pages get deleted. But I guess you already knew that too oh Mr. Smat one Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
973
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:20:00 -
[2186] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:I'm pretty sure he was trolling What is this "trolling" of which you speak? Pretty much what I'm doing now.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
You lose. Again. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2999
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:24:00 -
[2187] - Quote
Yes Salvos. Trolling is prohibited. The issue here is that you are a troll, so... It seems most threads you are part of end the same way, which is where you get confused then start insulting everyone. Good job buddy! The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
94
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:26:00 -
[2188] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:I'm pretty sure he was trolling What is this "trolling" of which you speak? Pretty much what I'm doing now.
5. Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. -https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Forum_rules
You lose. Again.
Quote: 11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.
Owned Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Brakor
Heavy Water Industries
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:53:00 -
[2189] - Quote
Could somebody plz end this. This is turning into meaningless mudslinging and an embarrassment for the community |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
817
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:52:00 -
[2190] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Welcome to the New Eve, where you can write an inflammatory blog post, claim an individual you don't like is literally a torturer (or rapist, as Ripard has done before) and get them banned for stupid, trifling things like making someone sing a song.
Welcome to the themepark Ripard has been dreaming of since he first mistakenly started playing
Edit: I also don't quite agree with Malcanis' reasoning for being happy sohkar isn't banned, as he's arguing that someone issuing real life death threats and spewing racist remarks is, in certain contexts, allowable. That's another dangerous, stupid precedent to set.
At the same time, I am happy sohkar isn't banned because I don't think he should be banned for an emotional outburst made entirely outside of EVE and all other CCPs services... but thats where the inconsistency comes in, since Ero was banned So much this.
Essentially they killed the 'sandbox' with banning Ero 1. That's the bottom line. You can no longer claim "Everything Is Fair Game" on your fricken EvE Gate homepage, and you can no longer market EvE as a 'sandbox' anymore, not when you ultimately ban a player for meta play outside the game.
All the rationalizations and moral hand wringing are irrelevant to that main point. CCP has killed the sandbox and meta play for everyone now, who must look over their shoulders while they scam and mess with other people, wondering if their target's plight will catch the attention of some future CSM who will take umbrage at it and get them banned.
Sandbox. Meh.
F
Would you like to know more? |
|
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
271
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:54:00 -
[2191] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: Essentially they killed the 'sandbox' with banning Ero 1. That's the bottom line. You can no longer claim "Everything Is Fair Game" on your fricken EvE Gate homepage, and you can no longer market EvE as a 'sandbox' anymore, not when you ultimately ban a player for meta play outside the game.
All the rationalizations and moral hand wringing are irrelevant to that main point. CCP has killed the sandbox and meta play for everyone now, who must look over their shoulders while they scam and mess with other people, wondering if their target's plight will catch the attention of some future CSM who will take umbrage at it and get them banned.
Sandbox. Meh.
F
That about sums it up.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:57:00 -
[2192] - Quote
Your bloody drafts saving ate my post CCP. |
JC Anderson
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1065
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:36:00 -
[2193] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Some people (and their numerous alts) here should be careful what they say, so they don't contradict what they said in the threadnaught :)
Apparently having your own alts argue with one-another is the trendy thing to do now days.
I have no idea who we are talking about BTW. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
818
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:15:00 -
[2194] - Quote
This.
Would you like to know more? |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2544
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:25:00 -
[2195] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Is that supposed to make someone fall over and realise that their moral standpoint was incorrect? Someone spouting the same arguments that have been espoused, over and over, in this same thread.
You really must do better than this. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:36:00 -
[2196] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: Is that supposed to make someone fall over and realise that their moral standpoint was incorrect? Someone spouting the same arguments that have been espoused, over and over, in this same thread. You really must do better than this.
The amount of shoveling he'll need to do to get your head from out of... err... the ground is just not worth the effort. Most of the arguments have indeed been made, sometimes not so eloquent. at the very least, he'll now be sure his 'work' wasn't for nothing, CCP can't delete his blog (Yet!).
I haven't seen you make a good case for anything in these threads either, by the way. Step up your game, son, before you don't have a game left.
To give more body to the post before it gets deleted, I'll just spout some of the same arguments that already have been espoused over and over but got deleted somehow; Stop being stupid and concede knee-jerk reactions to personnal crusades of CSM members are NOT good policy. Keep everything as is and communicate with players while they explore the unique selling point of your game; Being the villain. Give them one chance to cross the invisible line, warn them, reel them back in. If they continue after that. Make them play WOW or whatever.
Stop with the EA/Blizzard/... bullcrap before you loose everything you've been working for the last 10 years. I could believe there has been a debate and there was a breach of EULA and ripard's terrible blog post wasn't involved if anyone at any point in time had bothered to communicate with the perceived perpetrator and victim before, during or after the 'facts'.
Not CCP nor CSM did anything of the sort. Heck even the reason specified for banning Erotica 1 = blank. No inspiration? Morale crusaders are hardly ever inspired.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:59:00 -
[2197] - Quote
I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2544
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:04:00 -
[2198] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Jayem See wrote:[quote=Feyd Rautha Harkonnen] This. I haven't seen you make a good case for anything in these threads either, by the way. Step up your game, son, before you don't have a game left.
Rofl - I have been entirely consistent in my position all the way through this. I haven't budged.
The amusing part of it all is people who think that the sky is falling down on their heads.
Nothing has changed.
CCP had, and have, the right to deny somebody access if they feel it is negative to their IP.
You might disagree - but you are in the minority.
Whilst I might agree that a "talking to" could have been enough, the reality of enforcing it may be next to impossible. So the line has been drawn. Approach it at your own peril. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2544
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:05:00 -
[2199] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on.
Cheers - seem to have been listening to a lot of podcasts recently =) Aaaaaaand relax. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
760
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:20:00 -
[2200] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Very good write up. CCP is like any company and they sometimes cave to pressure. |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3007
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:23:00 -
[2201] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Danalee wrote:Jayem See wrote:[quote=Feyd Rautha Harkonnen] This. I haven't seen you make a good case for anything in these threads either, by the way. Step up your game, son, before you don't have a game left. Rofl - I have been entirely consistent in my position all the way through this. I haven't budged. The amusing part of it all is people who think that the sky is falling down on their heads. Nothing has changed. CCP had, and have, the right to deny somebody access if they feel it is negative to their IP. You might disagree - but you are in the minority. Whilst I might agree that a "talking to" could have been enough, the reality of enforcing it may be next to impossible. So the line has been drawn. Approach it at your own peril. Being consistent doesn't mean you are stating a good case. You can be consistently wrong.
And you say nothing has changed, but that is clearly 100% definitively wrong. Up until this CCP did not, ever, under any circumstances get involved in out of games communications, regardless of if they were related to games. Now they have on one occasion gone against this, which sets up precedent for the next time something happens out of game. Hell, eve DJ Funkybacon has expressed concern over some of the out of game competition pieces they hold. To say nothing has changed is categorically wrong. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2545
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:30:00 -
[2202] - Quote
I might be consistently wrong but I don't think so.
Quote:Up until this CCP did not, ever, under any circumstances get involved in out of games communications
CCP found someone doing something that they found objectionable. That "something" had a direct influence in their game. They are entirely within their rights to refuse access to their game. The fact it was on TS is a complete misdirection.
Nobody has pushed it that far before in order to maintain an in-game reputation. They haven't had to step in before. This time they felt they had to, from their own moral standpoint.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:32:00 -
[2203] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on. Cheers - seem to have been listening to a lot of podcasts recently =) I pretty much *never* listen to podcasts because a lot of times it's, like, pleeeeease get to the point, but these turned out to be worth listening to.
I won't draw any conclusions here or connect the dots from what Mike was saying. He makes some interesting points in particular on the question of jurisdiction. People who listen will decide on their own. He comes across as very measured and even-handed, and I personally appreciated that. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2545
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:35:00 -
[2204] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:Jayem See wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on. Cheers - seem to have been listening to a lot of podcasts recently =) I pretty much *never* listen to podcasts because a lot of times it's, like, pleeeeease get to the point, but these turned out to be worth listening to. I won't draw any conclusions here or connect the dots from what Mike was saying. People who listen will decide on their own. He comes across as very measured and even-handed, and I personally appreciated that.
I am only partially through the cast but it perfectly covers this thread. All the same arguments have been used. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:44:00 -
[2205] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:I am only partially through the cast but it perfectly covers this thread. All the same arguments have been used.
Oh god it's turning into RL examples and lawyering =( The RL example about the school is one part I found most interesting. That's the harassment and jurisdiction stuff.
But yeah, there's a bit to wade through to get to the key points.
|
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2334
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:03:00 -
[2206] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on.
Mike used an analogy of some boys, in a school he worked at, that had sexually assaulted female students - as comparable to what occurred between Eros and Sohkar(in that first podcast) to let people know where he stands in regards to this incident. Can someone explain how he equates physical sexual assault to be even remotely the same as to what occurred between Eros and Sohkar?
|
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:10:00 -
[2207] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on.
You're right, they simply want to unburden their souls on the GD community with circular arguements because that makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE... |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2547
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:11:00 -
[2208] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on. Mike used an analogy of some boys, in a school he worked at, that had sexually assaulted female students - as comparable to what occurred between Eros and Sohkar(in that first podcast) to let people know where he stands in regards to this incident. Can someone explain how he equates physical sexual assault to be even remotely the same as to what occurred between Eros and Sohkar?
Comparing what happened to any real life case is utterly pointless and I don't agree with that. Mike (who seems like a good guy) didn't endear himself to me with that.
I agree with you. Bad analogy.
This situation deserves equating to nothing apart from someone going too far. We've all done it - found ourselves in a situation where we forgot the line.
I had to stop listening half way through as it was getting my internet hackles up Aaaaaaand relax. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2547
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:12:00 -
[2209] - Quote
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on. You're right, they simply want to unburden their souls on the GD community with circular arguements because that makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE...
Every little helps. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
684
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:19:00 -
[2210] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on. Mike used an analogy of some boys, in a school he worked at, that had sexually assaulted female students - as comparable to what occurred between Eros and Sohkar(in that first podcast) to let people know where he stands in regards to this incident. Can someone explain how he equates physical sexual assault to be even remotely the same as to what occurred between Eros and Sohkar?
Get the target away from help, outnumbered and isolated target is...oh wait...you're pretending.
ugh let me just head this one off. Any real life example gets met with "that isn't similar at all! Explain!"which is usually followed by a detailed explanation of how the example applies, then that explanation is misunderstood or quibbled with, usually over the use of one word. And around and around it goes until someone gets angry or bored. It stops rotating when the people in charge do something finally and the trolls have to deal with it. So deal with it. Egregious turkey had one of a large number of accounts banned. CCP perfectly within their rights.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3009
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:25:00 -
[2211] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:I might be consistently wrong but I don't think so. Quote:Up until this CCP did not, ever, under any circumstances get involved in out of games communications CCP found someone doing something that they found objectionable. That "something" had a direct influence in their game. They are entirely within their rights to refuse access to their game. The fact it was on TS is a complete misdirection. Nobody has pushed it that far before in order to maintain an in-game reputation. They haven't had to step in before. This time they felt they had to, from their own moral standpoint. They have explicitly stated before that they do not deal with anything that happens outside of EVE communications, even if it begins there. Other people have been actually insulted and threatened outside of EVE and they have always been told to contact the authorities if they feel the need but CCP can't act. This is clearly a departure from that rule. It doesn't matter if they found it objectionable in this instance, it's still them setting a precedent. The bonus room isn't even close to the worst I've heard people being treated, yet it got CCPs attention.
And it's now going to leave a permanent mark on people freedom within the game. Everyone will have to constantly be thinking if the other side of a conversation is going to suddenly throw a fit and start smashing up their keyboard because you said something they don;t like to hear. Whether or not people agree with what CCP did isn't going to change that effect. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2334
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:25:00 -
[2212] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Ginseng Jita wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on. Mike used an analogy of some boys, in a school he worked at, that had sexually assaulted female students - as comparable to what occurred between Eros and Sohkar(in that first podcast) to let people know where he stands in regards to this incident. Can someone explain how he equates physical sexual assault to be even remotely the same as to what occurred between Eros and Sohkar? Get the target away from help, outnumbered and isolated target is...oh wait...you're pretending. ugh let me just head this one off. Any real life example gets met with "that isn't similar at all! Explain!"which is usually followed by a detailed explanation of how the example applies, then that explanation is misunderstood or quibbled with, usually over the use of one word. And around and around it goes until someone gets angry or bored. It stops rotating when the people in charge do something finally and the trolls have to deal with it. So deal with it. Egregious turkey had one of a large number of accounts banned. CCP perfectly within their rights.
Yes, I suppose you could just blow what happened completely out of proportion by equating this with sexual assault because that shows you have a grasp on judgement. Good to know. |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2334
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:28:00 -
[2213] - Quote
BTW if CCP though that this issue was simply going to go away by banning someone...I guess they were sadly mistaken. I have now seen articles on this subject in various online gaming websites, and sites like Liveleak, and Reddit. It's clear that their intention to have this just go away...isn't quite working out. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1067
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:30:00 -
[2214] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:They have explicitly stated before that they do not deal with anything that happens outside of EVE communications, even if it begins there. I'd like a source on that please.
Lucas Kell wrote:Other people have been actually insulted and threatened outside of EVE and they have always been told to contact the authorities if they feel the need but CCP can't act. This is clearly a departure from that rule. It doesn't matter if they found it objectionable in this instance, it's still them setting a precedent. The bonus room isn't even close to the worst I've heard people being treated, yet it got CCPs attention.
And it's now going to leave a permanent mark on people freedom within the game. Everyone will have to constantly be thinking if the other side of a conversation is going to suddenly throw a fit and start smashing up their keyboard because you said something they don;t like to hear. Whether or not people agree with what CCP did isn't going to change that effect. People's freedom to directly abuse each other has always been limited. Taking advantage of one another is supported by gameplay, but abusing one another is not, though admittedly one gripe that holds weight is that this is not always consistently enforced. That said, it doesn't create an excuse that protects people when it is enforced.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1067
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:32:00 -
[2215] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:BTW if CCP though that this issue was simply going to go away by banning someone...I guess they were sadly mistaken. I have now seen articles on this subject in various online gaming websites, and sites like Liveleak, and Reddit. It's clear that their intention to have this just go away...isn't quite working out. More likely they did it because it wasn't blowing over. If no one took note, i doubt we'd have this thread to discuss the issue in as any actions that were taken would be of no concern.
Ginseng Jita wrote:Yes, I suppose you could just blow what happened completely out of proportion by equating this with sexual assault because that shows you have a grasp on judgement. Good to know. Indeed the CSM needs to take into account that comparisons between situations cannot be made unless the situations have the same level of severity, and as such any clear parallels should be clearly ignored because... well... I have no idea really. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:33:00 -
[2216] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Comparing what happened to any real life case is utterly pointless and I don't agree with that. Mike (who seems like a good guy) didn't endear himself to me with that.
I agree with you. Bad analogy.
This situation deserves equating to nothing apart from someone going too far. We've all done it - found ourselves in a situation where we forgot the line. The part I found interesting there was about jurisdiction. I don't think he was trying to say the offenses were equivalent, but I could be wrong.
Regarding jurisdiction, he mentioned that a case like what happened in the school would get more traction if, say, a photo of the harassment taken off-campus were brought into the school and posted on the wall. The action of posting the pic happened on school property.
Then he mentioned a forum post from February where Erotica 1 linked to the audio. It sounded like -- to me, and again, I could be wrong -- that he was saying that posting about it here brought the matter more formally onto CCP's property than if it had stayed mostly on TeamSpeak.
From one way of looking at it, posting a humiliating audio featuring a fellow player here on the forums could be construed as harassment. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3009
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:33:00 -
[2217] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Get the target away from help, outnumbered and isolated target is...oh wait...you're pretending.
ugh let me just head this one off. Any real life example gets met with "that isn't similar at all! Explain!"which is usually followed by a detailed explanation of how the example applies, then that explanation is misunderstood or quibbled with, usually over the use of one word. And around and around it goes until someone gets angry or bored. It stops rotating when the people in charge do something finally and the trolls have to deal with it. So deal with it. Egregious turkey had one of a large number of accounts banned. CCP perfectly within their rights. In this particular case, Mike has chosen an example that is purposely extreme and globally hated. The bonus room, which was a person choosing to sing, realising they got scammed then raging out like a child was not even close to similar, but by picking an extreme subject for comparison he puts people of disagreeing.
And yes, CCP were perfectly within their rights. And their perfectly within their rights to ban people for anything they want. But that doesn't change the fact that a new precedent has been set. the exact same guys that said "be the villain", "Everything is fair game" and "HTFU" (as a song no less), are now drawing lines. To make it worse, they aren't even saying where they are drawing those lines, just "don't make people too sad/angry", which is entirely subjective. I mean I could take the stance that any time someone says something I don't like I'm just going to start flying off the handle at moment 1. If they don't back off, then they are continuing when I'm showing clear signs of distress and the banhammer will swing, right? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2548
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:36:00 -
[2218] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:I might be consistently wrong but I don't think so. Quote:Up until this CCP did not, ever, under any circumstances get involved in out of games communications CCP found someone doing something that they found objectionable. That "something" had a direct influence in their game. They are entirely within their rights to refuse access to their game. The fact it was on TS is a complete misdirection. Nobody has pushed it that far before in order to maintain an in-game reputation. They haven't had to step in before. This time they felt they had to, from their own moral standpoint. They have explicitly stated before that they do not deal with anything that happens outside of EVE communications, even if it begins there. Other people have been actually insulted and threatened outside of EVE and they have always been told to contact the authorities if they feel the need but CCP can't act. This is clearly a departure from that rule. It doesn't matter if they found it objectionable in this instance, it's still them setting a precedent. The bonus room isn't even close to the worst I've heard people being treated, yet it got CCPs attention. And it's now going to leave a permanent mark on people freedom within the game. Everyone will have to constantly be thinking if the other side of a conversation is going to suddenly throw a fit and start smashing up their keyboard because you said something they don;t like to hear. Whether or not people agree with what CCP did isn't going to change that effect.
You have already stated that you found what happened objectionable.
Despite your repeated bleatings I will state again, nothing has changed. CCP always had the right to do what they have done. That nobody ever pushed them to do it does not mean that anything has changed.
All that has happened is that the button has been pushed.
You might not like it - a couple of people even agree with you. The rest of the community agrees with CCP's actions.
I actually feel reassured that CCP is willing to moderate the game just a tiny bit. There IS a limit to internet anonymity, at least within our spaceship universe. If they step in too much I will be right there with you - but this case doesn't require much thought.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5001
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:39:00 -
[2219] - Quote
After careful thought, I've decided that you are all right.
Now someone give me a damn like. It's killing me to sit at 4999.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2549
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:40:00 -
[2220] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:After careful thought, I've decided that you are all right. Now someone give me a damn like. It's killing me to sit at 4999. Mr Epeen
IT WAS ME!
Was it? Aaaaaaand relax. |
|
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
684
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:43:00 -
[2221] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:I might be consistently wrong but I don't think so. Quote:Up until this CCP did not, ever, under any circumstances get involved in out of games communications CCP found someone doing something that they found objectionable. That "something" had a direct influence in their game. They are entirely within their rights to refuse access to their game. The fact it was on TS is a complete misdirection. Nobody has pushed it that far before in order to maintain an in-game reputation. They haven't had to step in before. This time they felt they had to, from their own moral standpoint. They have explicitly stated before that they do not deal with anything that happens outside of EVE communications, even if it begins there. Other people have been actually insulted and threatened outside of EVE and they have always been told to contact the authorities if they feel the need but CCP can't act. This is clearly a departure from that rule. It doesn't matter if they found it objectionable in this instance, it's still them setting a precedent. The bonus room isn't even close to the worst I've heard people being treated, yet it got CCPs attention. And it's now going to leave a permanent mark on people freedom within the game. Everyone will have to constantly be thinking if the other side of a conversation is going to suddenly throw a fit and start smashing up their keyboard because you said something they don;t like to hear. Whether or not people agree with what CCP did isn't going to change that effect.
Oh hey you know you guys sound really childish if not autistic when you try to hold CCP to some set of rules? Internet freedom everywhere is threatened by over-reactions to the antics of miserable, self-absorbed rebels who destroy the feeding hand then stand back saying "Dude, what?" when consequences ensue. The EULA, TOS and anything else you want to quote applies to customers, common sense is meant to pre-empt all that. CCP can do what they want.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5001
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:43:00 -
[2222] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:After careful thought, I've decided that you are all right. Now someone give me a damn like. It's killing me to sit at 4999. Mr Epeen IT WAS ME! Was it?
It was. But just by a hair.
I feel much better now and can happily go watch The Walking Dead reruns for the rest of the day.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2549
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:44:00 -
[2223] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Jayem See wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:After careful thought, I've decided that you are all right. Now someone give me a damn like. It's killing me to sit at 4999. Mr Epeen IT WAS ME! Was it? It was. But just by a hair. I feel much better now and can happily go watch The Walking Dead reruns for the rest of the day. Mr Epeen
You are welcome.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3009
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:53:00 -
[2224] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:They have explicitly stated before that they do not deal with anything that happens outside of EVE communications, even if it begins there. I'd like a source on that please. The most recent is Here. You may be able to find that in other places too as it's their stock response, though they have rules against releasing their responses.
Tyberius Franklin wrote:People's freedom to directly abuse each other has always been limited. Taking advantage of one another is supported by gameplay, but abusing one another is not, though admittedly one gripe that holds weight is that this is not always consistently enforced. That said, it doesn't create an excuse that protects people when it is enforced. In game you weren't allowed to harass and threaten, since obviously CCP have a legal obligation to stop that. Outside of that though they don't, and I don't know many MMOs that would step in an dictate your behaviour on third party comms. I mean apart from anything else, verification is an issue. You could argue that this case is different as Erotica 1 had nothing to hide, but then do they really want to set a precedent of "if you want to harass someone, do it in secret".
Then on top of that, take a transcript of the voice comms, type it out in game with someone, then report the conversation as harassment. If they whole conversation happened in a chat channel the only person that would have been banned is Sohkar, since Erotica 1 and co said absolutely nothing that would constitute harassment in game. The only reason it's classed as harassment here is because people can hear someone getting worked up. Do you REALLY think that's the first time someone's got worked up about EVE? I've seen people being bumped for several hours in a freighter, getting absolutely irate in local chat, then eventually being let go as they can;t complete the gank. How is that not harassment? The player is clearly irate and yet they continue to bump right? So how is it different? It's different because you can;t hear it and don't have a CSM banging on about torture. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2550
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:59:00 -
[2225] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:They have explicitly stated before that they do not deal with anything that happens outside of EVE communications, even if it begins there. I'd like a source on that please. The most recent is Here. You may be able to find that in other places too as it's their stock response, though they have rules against releasing their responses. Tyberius Franklin wrote:People's freedom to directly abuse each other has always been limited. Taking advantage of one another is supported by gameplay, but abusing one another is not, though admittedly one gripe that holds weight is that this is not always consistently enforced. That said, it doesn't create an excuse that protects people when it is enforced. In game you weren't allowed to harass and threaten, since obviously CCP have a legal obligation to stop that. Outside of that though they don't, and I don't know many MMOs that would step in an dictate your behaviour on third party comms. I mean apart from anything else, verification is an issue. You could argue that this case is different as Erotica 1 had nothing to hide, but then do they really want to set a precedent of "if you want to harass someone, do it in secret". Then on top of that, take a transcript of the voice comms, type it out in game with someone, then report the conversation as harassment. If they whole conversation happened in a chat channel the only person that would have been banned is Sohkar, since Erotica 1 and co said absolutely nothing that would constitute harassment in game. The only reason it's classed as harassment here is because people can hear someone getting worked up. Do you REALLY think that's the first time someone's got worked up about EVE? I've seen people being bumped for several hours in a freighter, getting absolutely irate in local chat, then eventually being let go as they can;t complete the gank. How is that not harassment? The player is clearly irate and yet they continue to bump right? So how is it different? It's different because you can;t hear it and don't have a CSM banging on about torture.
Horse excrement. The reason that it is very relevant, is that E1 already stated that the bonus room went on so long in order to preserve his reputation within the game. If he took the goods and ran it would kill the "Legit" part of his reputation. Within the game. The scam would have died so he had to push players to the point that they snapped.
However you try and play it, Lucas, it has a direct bearing within the game. Stop trying to obfuscate the issue with lots of words that ultimately skirt around the issue.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3009
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:01:00 -
[2226] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:You have already stated that you found what happened objectionable.
Despite your repeated bleatings I will state again, nothing has changed. CCP always had the right to do what they have done. That nobody ever pushed them to do it does not mean that anything has changed. I don;t really care if you agree or not. That's doesn't automatically make you right. It's clear CCP made a ruling that third party comms don;t get moderated. It's clear that didn't happen in this case. Whether you choose to close your eyes and ignore that because you hate Erotica 1 is your business.
Jayem See wrote:You might not like it - a couple of people even agree with you. The rest of the community agrees with CCP's actions. HA! The arrogance of it. Yes, only a COUPLE of people disagree, which is why the discussion is so polarised. Oh yeah, I forgot, anyone who doesn't follow Ripard Teg along like a sheep is an alt of Erotica 1 right? Get your head out of your ass. The vocal minority getting irate because they have been scammed before and are excited that the person that took their stuff is getting banned doesn't mean that the whole community is with CCP on it.
Jayem See wrote:I actually feel reassured that CCP is willing to moderate the game just a tiny bit. There IS a limit to internet anonymity, at least within our spaceship universe. If they step in too much I will be right there with you - but this case doesn't require much thought. Of course it requires thought. If anything this is THE case that requires the most thought, since this one sets the precedent for future rulings. Unfortunately CCP don't get the luxury of thought since a CSM member decided that rather than following set procedures he'd start up a hate campaign and get every carebear that's ever been scammed bumped or ganked to shriek at the top of their lungs. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3009
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:02:00 -
[2227] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Horse excrement. The reason that it is very relevant, is that E1 already stated that the bonus room went on so long in order to preserve his reputation within the game. If he took the goods and ran it would kill the "Legit" part of his reputation. Within the game. The scam would have died so he had to push players to the point that they snapped.
However you try and play it, Lucas, it has a direct bearing within the game. Stop trying to obfuscate the issue with lots of words that ultimately skirt around the issue. lol, way to ignore the actual post and simply spew your opinion at me again. Explain to me then. If a freighter has been bumped for an hour, and the pilot is yelling in local, clearly irate, is it OK to continue bumping him? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2550
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:11:00 -
[2228] - Quote
Am not going to quote your posts. No need.
It's clear who has lost control here.
The 3rd party comms bit has been covered.
I should add at this point that I have never been scammed. I don't hate E1. I'm not a fan of Ripard and I don't feel irate.
I got upvoted by E1 in the original thread as I wasn't convinced that he should be banned.
Now - perhaps you could stop telling me to remove my head from my ass and be civil.
Nothing has changed, Lucas. The only thing that has happened is that CCP has stepped in against something they find objectionable.
Bumping an orca might be a pain for the pilot but until you have killed it you haven't gained anything. If you popped it and then spent three hours bumping the pod then I think you would have something to answer to, no? Aaaaaaand relax. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3009
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:19:00 -
[2229] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Am not going to quote your posts. No need.
It's clear who has lost control here. Indeed it is. Run along if you can't handle a simple difference of opinion. Just because your opinion is your doesn't mean it's right and certainly doesn't mean that only "a couple" of people are opposed to it.
Jayem See wrote:Bumping an orca might be a pain for the pilot but until you have killed it you haven't gained anything. If you popped it and then spent three hours bumping the pod then I think you would have something to answer to, no? You mean keeping a pod scrammed for hours? Seen that done too. So those people should be banned?
And what about the freighters where they are bumped for hours, get irate, continue to be bumped for more hours, then don't end up getting ganked because the ganker can't find enough firepower. Is that harassment? Should those people be banned?
Up until this decision the answer for both of those would be categorically no, as proven by the fact that those thing happen, and forum posts go up about them nearly every time. CCP themselves might link you their HTFU video, that's about the best you'll get. Now it's questionable. And that's where there's been a change, and that's what kills the sandbox. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2552
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:26:00 -
[2230] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:Am not going to quote your posts. No need.
It's clear who has lost control here. Indeed it is. Run along if you can't handle a simple difference of opinion. Just because your opinion is your doesn't mean it's right and certainly doesn't mean that only "a couple" of people are opposed to it. Jayem See wrote:Bumping an orca might be a pain for the pilot but until you have killed it you haven't gained anything. If you popped it and then spent three hours bumping the pod then I think you would have something to answer to, no? You mean keeping a pod scrammed for hours? Seen that done too. So those people should be banned? And what about the freighters where they are bumped for hours, get irate, continue to be bumped for more hours, then don't end up getting ganked because the ganker can't find enough firepower. Is that harassment? Should those people be banned? Up until this decision the answer for both of those would be categorically no, as proven by the fact that those thing happen, and forum posts go up about them nearly every time. CCP themselves might link you their HTFU video, that's about the best you'll get. Now it's questionable. And that's where there's been a change, and that's what kills the sandbox.
Lol. It's cute the way you tried to re-direct that.
You and I both know there is a difference between trying to obtain assets within the game (whether you succeed or not) and taking assets from someone and then pressuring them to distress in order to maintain your reputation.
You argue concisely enough that I am guessing you see the difference. Your argument is that CCP should amend the terms in such a way that every conceivable occurrence be covered.
That's impossible and you know it is. Your argument is based on saving face rather than objective reality.
I do understand your position, however untenable it is. What you are asking is literally impossible. Asking a company to legislate for every eventuality is ridiculous and you fully know it.
Ed - Splitting infinitives like a baws Aaaaaaand relax. |
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
881
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:28:00 -
[2231] - Quote
Lucas Kell speaks the truth.
The "flip flop" by CCP is what is on trial here, not the ban of Erotica1.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3010
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:44:00 -
[2232] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Lol. It's cute the way you tried to re-direct that. Grow up guy.
Jayem See wrote:You and I both know there is a difference between trying to obtain assets within the game (whether you succeed or not) and taking assets from someone and then pressuring them to distress in order to maintain your reputation. Yeah, because someone scramming a pod for hours gains so much right? And surely that just means you can harass someone as long as you claim to be trying to gain from it, whether you intend to or not. What you seem to not understand is that not everything is black and white. CCP will be making a judgement call. Previously comms were off limits. Now they aren't. You can't dispute that since that what's actually happened right here. I mean you can dispute that, and I'm sure you will, but pretty much everyone in the game whether they are in the "I heart butterflies" crowd or not can see that.
Jayem See wrote:You argue concisely enough that I am guessing you see the difference. Your argument is that CCP should amend the terms in such a way that every conceivable occurrence be covered.
That's impossible and you know it is. Your argument is based on saving face rather than objective reality. I don't argue that at all. I think that CCP should either state that third part comms are covered by the EULA, and which mediums that covers (so twitter, blogs, etc) or state that is is not covered like they have. That's not asking for every situation. You just want to misrepresent what I am arguing. Clearly there is no understanding of where the line falls, which is why there so many different opinions on where it is falling. But since their official statement is that when someone seems to be emotionally losing it in a situation you must stop else it is harassment, that covers a whole range of behaviour that historically has been fine.
And when you now see that most people are avoiding singing ransoms, and even eve-radio are going to avoid using 3rd party comms tasks like singing for competitions and reading on air, clearly the impact is wider spread than you seem to think it is. I get it though, you think what Eroitca 1 did was bad, CCP banned him therefore you think what CCP did was good. It's not that simple to most of us mate. All I see here is a single person being strung up as an example, a CSM member wilfully going off procedure and starting a hate campaign, a clear racist being given a pass, several other members of the bonus room who had just as much involvement also getting a free pass, and CCP walking through a EULA jurisdiction bar that they themselves have stated. And all for what? All so the freedom in the game I love to play can be stripped back so people that are emotionally unstable and can't separate fantasy from reality can act like it's hello kitty online?
You can literally say whatever you like. Nothing you say will change my opinion. I've listened to pretty much every podcast, read every blog and have certainly heard every conceivable side of the story and my opinion is set. And funnily enough, even the victim in this situation is against the ruling. CCP have changed the limitation of their EULA and now we all have to watch our asses whenever we are talking to someone that might have a sad. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3010
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:46:00 -
[2233] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell speaks the truth.
The "flip flop" by CCP is what is on trial here, not the ban of Erotica1. Holy crap, we agree on something!
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:50:00 -
[2234] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:[snip]
You can literally say whatever you like. Nothing you say will change my opinion. I've listened to pretty much every podcast, read every blog and have certainly heard every conceivable side of the story and my opinion is set. And funnily enough, even the victim in this situation is against the ruling. CCP have changed the limitation of their EULA and now we all have to watch our asses whenever we are talking to someone that might have a sad.
"I'm happy for everyone to express their own views, and don't mind seeing the occasional profanity, but I will enforce a level of decorum."
http://indecisivenoob.blogspot.co.uk/p/about.html
Before I post on your blog can I know what this "level of decorum" is? |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2554
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:57:00 -
[2235] - Quote
Heh - love being told to grow up
Doink - we already covered your first part - soz. E1 had the guys stuff. No more stuff to be gained. You can bump that Orca as much as you want if you are gonna pop it. You already know that if you bump it for hours for fun then CCP don't agree with that (it's already been done and discussed by CCP) Let us not distract from the best bit.
I am not misrepresenting anything you are saying at all.
I would like some evidence as to who is avoiding doing anything that they have done before. At all. Provide me with one concrete piece of evidence.
The fact of the matter is that nothing has changed. You didn't go as far as E1 went (you might have been in on it - I have no idea) and not many people would ever go that far.
Has CCP intervened in any other situations in the last fortnight that you can cite to me? Or in the last two years?
The argument about Ripard's involvement in this I find particularly interesting. Merely because, and lets face it, he was elected by the players. His involvement is peripheral at best though.
Quote: CCP have changed the limitation of their EULA
No they haven't.
Edited for clarity Aaaaaaand relax. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3010
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:00:00 -
[2236] - Quote
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[snip]
You can literally say whatever you like. Nothing you say will change my opinion. I've listened to pretty much every podcast, read every blog and have certainly heard every conceivable side of the story and my opinion is set. And funnily enough, even the victim in this situation is against the ruling. CCP have changed the limitation of their EULA and now we all have to watch our asses whenever we are talking to someone that might have a sad. "I'm happy for everyone to express their own views, and don't mind seeing the occasional profanity, but I will enforce a level of decorum." http://indecisivenoob.blogspot.co.uk/p/about.htmlBefore I post on your blog can I know what this "level of decorum" is? Sure, like CCP I'll state that you should use your judgement and aim not to harass or attack anyone else within your post. Here's where I'll go away from where CCP have now turned. My jurisdiction ends with the blog. Anything that happens outside the blog, whether it involves to blog or not will not be moderated by me and no action will be taken on the blog regarding your actions outside of it.
Good job. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2554
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:05:00 -
[2237] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[snip]
You can literally say whatever you like. Nothing you say will change my opinion. I've listened to pretty much every podcast, read every blog and have certainly heard every conceivable side of the story and my opinion is set. And funnily enough, even the victim in this situation is against the ruling. CCP have changed the limitation of their EULA and now we all have to watch our asses whenever we are talking to someone that might have a sad. "I'm happy for everyone to express their own views, and don't mind seeing the occasional profanity, but I will enforce a level of decorum." http://indecisivenoob.blogspot.co.uk/p/about.htmlBefore I post on your blog can I know what this "level of decorum" is? Sure, like CCP I'll state that you should use your judgement and aim not to harass or attack anyone else within your post. Here's where I'll go away from where CCP have now turned. My jurisdiction ends with the blog. Anything that happens outside the blog, whether it involves to blog or not will not be moderated by me and no action will be taken on the blog regarding your actions outside of it. Good job.
Could you tell me if that extends to comments about your blog? Aaaaaaand relax. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:09:00 -
[2238] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[snip]
You can literally say whatever you like. Nothing you say will change my opinion. I've listened to pretty much every podcast, read every blog and have certainly heard every conceivable side of the story and my opinion is set. And funnily enough, even the victim in this situation is against the ruling. CCP have changed the limitation of their EULA and now we all have to watch our asses whenever we are talking to someone that might have a sad. "I'm happy for everyone to express their own views, and don't mind seeing the occasional profanity, but I will enforce a level of decorum." http://indecisivenoob.blogspot.co.uk/p/about.htmlBefore I post on your blog can I know what this "level of decorum" is? Sure, like CCP I'll state that you should use your judgement and aim not to harass or attack anyone else within your post. Here's where I'll go away from where CCP have now turned. My jurisdiction ends with the blog. Anything that happens outside the blog, whether it involves to blog or not will not be moderated by me and no action will be taken on the blog regarding your actions outside of it. Good job.
Thankyou, then I will use my judgement and not post on your blog.
I suggest you update you blog with your final sentence to make it clearer because I could link to something that does cause you to exercise jurisdiction outside your blog and I wouldn't want you to be completely without protection.
In which case you'll also excuse CCP for doing the same... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3010
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:09:00 -
[2239] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Quote:CCP have changed the limitation of their EULA No they haven't. Well you've found the fundamental difference of opinion. From my point of view, CCP have stated that 3rd party communications are not covered. I mean to quote their very own ToS, section 5
Quote:You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site. So since this action occurred outside of their game servers and web site, and CCP acted, this is a clear departure from this statement, no to mention the leaked GM correspondence that reiterate it's not their problem, and victims of harassment outside of the game have been previously told to HTFU, including previous victims of the bonus room.
But no, of course, nothing changed. Sure... The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2554
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:15:00 -
[2240] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:Quote:CCP have changed the limitation of their EULA No they haven't. Well you've found the fundamental difference of opinion. From my point of view, CCP have stated that 3rd party communications are not covered. I mean to quote their very own ToS, section 5 Quote:You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site. So since this action occurred outside of their game servers and web site, and CCP acted, this is a clear departure from this statement, no to mention the leaked GM correspondence that reiterate it's not their problem, and victims of harassment outside of the game have been previously told to HTFU, including previous victims of the bonus room. But no, of course, nothing changed. Sure...
Whilst I do hear you - and you are right, we have found our point of mutual disagreement - the fact that it was made available and impacts on their IP gives them the right to make a decision.
You don't like it. I personally find it....ok.
It seems that most people find that it is ok as well. I behave "roughly" the same in Eve as I do IRL - I don't expect everyone to. I do expect them to be grown up and adult enough to see where that line is. If CCP have to bash in occasionally then fine.
I would prefer a safe, dark, tense, awkward space without that level of unpleasantness.
If they start meddling too much I will be with you but in this instance I think they got it right. Aaaaaaand relax. |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3010
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:20:00 -
[2241] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Could you tell me if that extends to comments about your blog? If you want to comment about my blog wherever and however you want, you can.
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:Thankyou, then I will use my judgement and not post on your blog.
I suggest you update you blog with your final sentence to make it clearer because I could link to something that does cause you to exercise jurisdiction outside your blog and I wouldn't want you to be completely without protection.
In which case you'll also excuse CCP for doing the same... No thanks. People don't pay me money for access to my blog, and there is no EULA or ToS, simply a standard moderation which you will find basically everywhere. I think you are confused as to what moderating outside of my jurisdiction would mean. That doesn't mean if you post a link on my blog linking to something else I can't moderate that post. CCP can and do that all the time (see this forum for an example). But if you were to go to some other random blog or forum and badmouth my blog, me or someone who posted on my blog, you are welcome to do so. You can even go bully and harass people wherever you want, so long as it doesn't happen on the blog. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3010
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:24:00 -
[2242] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Whilst I do hear you - and you are right, we have found our point of mutual disagreement - the fact that it was made available and impacts on their IP gives them the right to make a decision.
You don't like it. I personally find it....ok.
It seems that most people find that it is ok as well. I behave "roughly" the same in Eve as I do IRL - I don't expect everyone to. I do expect them to be grown up and adult enough to see where that line is. If CCP have to bash in occasionally then fine.
I would prefer a safe, dark, tense, awkward space without that level of unpleasantness.
If they start meddling too much I will be with you but in this instance I think they got it right. But this isn;t about what you think is good and bad behaviour or what I think is good an bad behaviour. How are you still nto getting that that is beside the point. The only point is that CCP have acted on something they have previously explicitly stated they will not act on yet haven;t stated where the new line is drawn.
I get the impression that you seem to think I'm petitioning to unban Erotica 1. I couldn't give a flying **** what happens with regard to that situation, but whatever way it falls, I feel we deserve to know where the line is drawn. Are 3rd party forums covered? What about twitter, facebook, blogs? Or is it just voice comms and singing that's banned? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3010
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:28:00 -
[2243] - Quote
To be honest, I'm gonna be the bigger man and just walk away on this one. You don't get what the issue is here, no amount of explaining it seems to be helping you get it and you are going to keep crying on at me about what you think constitutes bad behaviour like a broken record. Feel free to drop me a mail if you ever figure it out. Later! The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2554
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:30:00 -
[2244] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jayem See wrote:Whilst I do hear you - and you are right, we have found our point of mutual disagreement - the fact that it was made available and impacts on their IP gives them the right to make a decision.
You don't like it. I personally find it....ok.
It seems that most people find that it is ok as well. I behave "roughly" the same in Eve as I do IRL - I don't expect everyone to. I do expect them to be grown up and adult enough to see where that line is. If CCP have to bash in occasionally then fine.
I would prefer a safe, dark, tense, awkward space without that level of unpleasantness.
If they start meddling too much I will be with you but in this instance I think they got it right. But this isn;t about what you think is good and bad behaviour or what I think is good an bad behaviour. How are you still nto getting that that is beside the point. The only point is that CCP have acted on something they have previously explicitly stated they will not act on yet haven;t stated where the new line is drawn. I get the impression that you seem to think I'm petitioning to unban Erotica 1. I couldn't give a flying **** what happens with regard to that situation, but whatever way it falls, I feel we deserve to know where the line is drawn. Are 3rd party forums covered? What about twitter, facebook, blogs? Or is it just voice comms and singing that's banned?
I think that is pretty clear - if you screw CCP by doing something on comms that is clearly objectionable then they have the right to withdraw service.
Is that clear enough?
It doesn't matter about definitions - you cannot define human nature online. It comes down to a case by case basis. If you want to push that line then go for it. If you can still post afterwards then let us know how you got on.
Your insistence on definition is a little unrealistic.
If it is related to CCP in any way then they can make a choice. I don't know how I can make that much clearer. It's not me, it's not the law, it's not morality - it's the space we play in. Aaaaaaand relax. |
Amyclas Amatin
Novus Ordo Rangers
201
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:37:00 -
[2245] - Quote
So... is the bonus room real life harassment? Do soundcloud channels, teamspeak and player blogs count as real-life? If so, the minerbumping blog is a blatant violation as it publicly humiliates players without their consent or allow them to walk away from it! For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5007
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 00:36:00 -
[2246] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:So... is the bonus room real life harassment? Do soundcloud channels, teamspeak and player blogs count as real-life? If so, the minerbumping blog is a blatant violation as it publicly humiliates players without their consent or allow them to walk away from it!
This is going to be good. Firing up the hot air popper.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Something Random
The Barrow Boys
617
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 00:43:00 -
[2247] - Quote
I suggest
CCP take Jesters suggestions and enact them.
They then take the usual rage behemoth at the same level.
Then they carry on, knowing they did all they could, and will again. "caught on fire a little bit, just a little." "Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangsn++ all here!" I love Science, it gives me a Hadron. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
602
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 02:44:00 -
[2248] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: CCP seems to have far too much tolerance for real life threats when they are addressed at the "bad guy" players, from what I have seen.
Whats funny is I broke Malcanis in another thread because I suggested you shouldnt be banned for telling the devs to "diaf" on these forums.
But its OK if youre mad?
Jaxon Grylls wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: Sohkar not filing (and proving) charges of harassment in court is EXACTLY the point. Erotica 1 appears to have been banned for real life harassment (see thread title), yet no real life harassment has been proven in court. Many accused Erotica 1 of real life harassment as their main rallying cry to ban him remember?
Sophistry, pettifogging and general hair-splitting. You might do well as a lawyer. CCP perceived a threat to their reputation and took action against the person bringing their name and business into disrepute. If someone threatened your livelihood wouldn't you do all in your power to protect yourself?
See Case # 000T20; CCP Vs Kugutsumen for references PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
602
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 02:51:00 -
[2249] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:I doubt those who've already dug in on the "Ripard Teg got Erotica banned" and "CCP had no jurisdiction/was wrong to ban him" positions will care one way or another, but the podcasts linked by Mike Azariah in his CSM thread are very informative (insofar as his NDA allows) about what actually has been going on. Mike used an analogy of some boys, in a school he worked at, that had sexually assaulted female students - as comparable to what occurred between Eros and Sohkar(in that first podcast) to let people know where he stands in regards to this incident. Can someone explain how he equates physical sexual assault to be even remotely the same as to what occurred between Eros and Sohkar?
Unless the girl afterwards said she was cool with them and nothing bad happened, um... it doesnt PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
602
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 02:53:00 -
[2250] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote: The EULA, TOS and anything else you want to quote applies to customers, common sense is meant to pre-empt all that. CCP can do what they want.
Google "Shrinkwrap contract"
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
602
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 02:55:00 -
[2251] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:I'd like a source on that please.
Quote:Hi, GM Eskimo here,
Thank you for contacting Customer Support. There is nothing we can do with out-of-game activities. We can only offer assistance or take a further look when all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE. We are not able to take anything from any third parties as evidences to accuse any players.
Best Regards, GM Eskimo CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | Dust 514
http://remielpollardlives.blogspot.co.uk/
That help? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
602
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 02:57:00 -
[2252] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:Am not going to quote your posts. No need.
It's clear who has lost control here.
The 3rd party comms bit has been covered.
I should add at this point that I have never been scammed. I don't hate E1. I'm not a fan of Ripard and I don't feel irate.
I got upvoted by E1 in the original thread as I wasn't convinced that he should be banned.
Now - perhaps you could stop telling me to remove my head from my ass and be civil.
Nothing has changed, Lucas. The only thing that has happened is that CCP has stepped in against something they find objectionable.
Bumping an orca might be a pain for the pilot but until you have killed it you haven't gained anything. If you popped it and then spent three hours bumping the pod then I think you would have something to answer to, no?
Im more curious, if you do the exact same thing with the Bonus room but do it on a private chat, is it OK? Since theres no longer then an out of game element.
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
686
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 03:06:00 -
[2253] - Quote
This is why these threads sperg forever: half the trolls are begging for rules to cover every last possible aspect of EvE so that they need never use common sense, the other half of the trolls are pretending to think that way in order to provoke explanations from decent minded people who can't tell they are being trolled. Like that post saying Ero1 wasn't charged in court therefore no wrong was done, GODDAM school really broke your fragile little mind didn't it? No rule/regulation/law covers it, therefore no transgression? It's like lawyers have removed your brain and turned you from a human into a customer.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Liese Shardani
Hedion University Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 03:23:00 -
[2254] - Quote
When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him.
It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
609
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 05:21:00 -
[2255] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim.
So when they learned about it happening in their game in November....
Between then and Feb, they did nothing because........... PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 05:22:00 -
[2256] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:To be honest, I'm gonna be the bigger man and just walk away on this one. You don't get what the issue is here, no amount of explaining it seems to be helping you get it and you are going to keep crying on at me about what you think constitutes bad behaviour like a broken record. Feel free to drop me a mail if you ever figure it out. Later!
Sorry you feel that way but you're missing the point here and the patient explanations of CCP, CSM and other players are beyond you.
Good advice on walking away. hope the other trolls follow it... |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5021
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 05:27:00 -
[2257] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim. So when they learned about it happening in their game in November.... Between then and Feb, they did nothing because...........
Because that's the way they roll.
I know that. You know that. Pretty much everyone that has played longer than a week knows that.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
907
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 05:34:00 -
[2258] - Quote
Mr Epeen back in the day where he wasn't just a troll wrote:It means they think you are a greedy idiot, not to put too fine a point on it.
How this thread differs from this one after the pussyfication of EVE and the forums raged on unchecked is shocking to observe.
Well, I don't like Feyd much but he sure knows what it's all about.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 05:37:00 -
[2259] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:So... is the bonus room real life harassment? Do soundcloud channels, teamspeak and player blogs count as real-life? If so, the minerbumping blog is a blatant violation as it publicly humiliates players without their consent or allow them to walk away from it!
Do the players that are humiliated have any recourse to remove content posted about them?
Does the site in question comply with the policies of the hosting provider? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
610
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 05:44:00 -
[2260] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim. So when they learned about it happening in their game in November.... Between then and Feb, they did nothing because........... Because that's the way they roll. I know that. You know that. Pretty much everyone that has played longer than a week knows that. Mr Epeen
So your defense is "um because they like to be pushed around and wait for the mob"?
Cause mob justice is what we have now. PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5024
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 05:52:00 -
[2261] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Cause mob justice is what we have now.
Mob crying is all I see. And the mob is 90% you. Post after post after post of nothing but major butt hurt.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
611
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 05:54:00 -
[2262] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Cause mob justice is what we have now.
Mob crying is all I see. And the mob is 90% you. Post after post after post of nothing but major butt hurt. Mr Epeen
again, you see tears where I am laughing but hey, if all you want to see is butt hurt, maybe butts are your thing? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2340
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 06:22:00 -
[2263] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim. So when they learned about it happening in their game in November.... Between then and Feb, they did nothing because...........
Well clearly they did nothing because they didn't care...it wasn't until a CSM that wants to be a self-righteous Inquisitor wrote about it. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 06:30:00 -
[2264] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim. So when they learned about it happening in their game in November.... Between then and Feb, they did nothing because........... Well clearly they did nothing because they didn't care...it wasn't until a CSM that wants to be a self-righteous Inquisitor wrote about it.
I like the sound of that - I endorse this Inquisitor product and/or service and believe we need more of this.
Metagaming is encouraged so I believe we should add this to http://www.eveonline.com/sandbox/personality-analysis/ |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
613
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 06:35:00 -
[2265] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim. So when they learned about it happening in their game in November.... Between then and Feb, they did nothing because........... Well clearly they did nothing because they didn't care...it wasn't until a CSM that wants to be a self-righteous Inquisitor wrote about it.
Wonder what his next crusade will be?
Miner bumping?
Ganking? lol
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote: did nothing because they didn't care...it wasn't until a CSM that wants to be a self-righteous Inquisitor wrote about it.
I like the sound of that - I endorse this Inquisitor product and/or service and believe we need more of this.
Metagaming is encouraged so I believe we should add this to http://www.eveonline.com/sandbox/personality-analysis/[/quote]
Know what? Yeah sure, **** it, LETS CLEAN UP EVE
Not like itll kill the game or anything PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2170
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 07:02:00 -
[2266] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:You folks need to get of the Erotica1 ****. Whats done is done. The issue is what precedent CCP has established.
Which is cave to mob mentality.
I am not sure it qualifies as a precedent, but CCP have made it clear that they find some behaviour unacceptable.
For those who keep saying that they want clarification about what is and what is not considered to be acceptable in-game, the action taken by CCP should be a great help to them.
It would be impossible for CCP to come up with a comprehensive, all defining set of rules to which players must adhere at all times, those who keep asking for this are simply trolling and they know it.
Each of us (the relatively few) who have any opinion on the matter will apply their own personal values to what happened and opine on the forums accordingly.
For me, Ero crossed the line with the 'speech impediment' part.
To give Ero any isk, is foolish, to go into the bonus room is seriously foolish, but given how many players brag about how stupid other players are and how they take advantage of them, the mark was not alone in his stupidity.
If I owned CCP I would have given Ero a three month ban, and made it very clear to him that any similar behaviour by him in the future would mean that we would just have to manage without him playing our game, forever. This is not a signature. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
908
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 07:19:00 -
[2267] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis with inline comments by Danalee wrote:I am not sure it qualifies as a precedent, but CCP have made it clear that they find some behaviour unacceptable. They have every right to that, nobody is arguing the opposite.For those who keep saying that they want clarification about what is and what is not considered to be acceptable in-game, the action taken by CCP should be a great help to them. New people and 99% of the player base don't read these forums.It would be impossible for CCP to come up with a comprehensive, all defining set of rules to which players must adhere at all times, those who keep asking for this are simply trolling and they know it. Nobody is asking this. It's a given that making a list of everything CCP thinks is bad is impossible.Each of us (the relatively few) who have any opinion on the matter will apply their own personal values to what happened and opine on the forums accordingly. We all have the right to form and vent these opinions, again; Nobody is arguing the opposite.For me, Ero crossed the line with the 'speech impediment' part. Your opinion is noted and I'll defend your right to vent it.To give Ero any isk, is foolish, to go into the bonus room is seriously foolish, but given how many players brag about how stupid other players are and how they take advantage of them, the mark was not alone in his stupidity. Agreed.If I owned CCP I would have given Ero a three month ban, and made it very clear to him that any similar behaviour by him in the future would mean that we would just have to manage without him playing our game, forever. And here we arrive at the crux of the matter; A warning with a temp ban at first is what you ask? Newsflash: It's what everyone asks.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
661
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 08:38:00 -
[2268] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Not like itll kill the game or anything I think the 99.9% of the playerbase who don't care about this have probably carried on playing the game just fine.
Fact is, you're representing a fringe playstyle that the mass of Eve doesn't particularly care about.
Keep posting! Ripard 1 Erotica 0
They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3031
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 08:42:00 -
[2269] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:t the mass of Eve doesn't particularly care
This is true of of both sides in this entire debacle *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1239
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 08:47:00 -
[2270] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Not like itll kill the game or anything I think the 99.9% of the playerbase who don't care about this have probably carried on playing the game just fine. Fact is, you're representing a fringe playstyle that the mass of Eve doesn't particularly care about. Keep posting!
The 99% that don't care are sheep. One day they'll wake up when eve is transformed into hello kitty online and bleat that eve isn't as good as it used to be, that there is no danger anymore and the sandbox is boring, but by then it will be too late. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3031
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 09:06:00 -
[2271] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The 99% that don't care are sheep. One day they'll wake up when eve is transformed into hello kitty online and bleat that eve isn't as good as it used to be, that there is no danger anymore and the sandbox is boring, but by then it will be too late.
Nope.
The ones who dont care are the ones who dont pay attention to us drama-llamas in the same way that being E-famous is as meaningless as being real famous
Hell, I bet they dont even pay attention to what the Celebrities are up to! *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
688
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 09:38:00 -
[2272] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:... The 99% that don't care are sheep.....
Yeah i get what you're saying but trust me it's always a mistake to refer to people as sheep. That feeling of being the only person who's awake and validating yourself by declaring that people are stupid is an adolescent phase. In it's extremest expression, such a sentiment is usually expressed by schizoid murderers, the type who may read Nietszche daily but always seem to end up hurting mainly women and children. No i'm not calling you a crazy killer, get down off the mantlepiece, put that gun away and take off that ballgown, this just isn't as important to the game as some of Ero1s alts would like to think it is.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 09:52:00 -
[2273] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The 99% that don't care are sheep. One day they'll wake up when eve is transformed into hello kitty online and bleat that eve isn't as good as it used to be, that there is no danger anymore and the sandbox is boring, but by then it will be too late.
Drama queen much??? What are those dangers to which station scam-er alts are exposed now? Bounties? Clearly you are joking. War decs? You can't be serious. It is "Hello Kitty" for people that prefer this type of game-play. And because it is, one virtual jerk pushed the envelope well beyond any shred of decency. And now, faced with the consequences of his actions, he sheds sweat tears on the internet. Sweetest tears ever, nomnomnom. Rip what you saw.
This thread is so full of straw men that it rivals the Chinese Terracotta ARMY. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2172
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 09:56:00 -
[2274] - Quote
With regard to the Ero 'saga'
I read on, I think it was Eurogamer, 'nerd world stuff'
This is not a signature. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3035
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 10:02:00 -
[2275] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote: usually expressed by schizoid murderers, the type who may read Nietszche daily but always seem to end up hurting mainly women and children.
Hey I hurt men too
And reading Nietszche does not make you a bad person (EDIT: Sorry only just noticed the "but" in there, qualifying that you, do not, infact, think that Mr N is bad, sorry)
Reading and enjoying Orwell and Steinbeck, that makes you a bad person *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 10:38:00 -
[2276] - Quote
CCP, how about instead of occasionally banning people that prefer being a crook as a play style, you introduce a in-game business transaction certificate that becomes editable only for players that concluded a contract with the owner of the certificate. It should only be editable also when the contract is more then 70% of balance and only negative grades can be posted (the party that got the 70% hit is the only one that can grade). Contract goes through as off now but the grade sticks to the scam-er. Direct money transfer stays as it is now.
Don't flame me too hard, it is a rushed idea to insert some in-game risk for the nice scamming community. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3037
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 10:41:00 -
[2277] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:CCP, how about instead of occasionally banning people that prefer being a crook as a play style, you introduce a in-game business transaction certificate that becomes editable only for players that concluded a contract with the owner of the certificate. It should only be editable also when the contract is more then 70% of balance and only negative grades can be posted (the party that got the 70% hit is the only one that can grade). Contract goes through as off now but the grade sticks to the scam-er. Direct money transfer stays as it is now.
Don't flame me too hard, it is a rushed idea to insert some in-game risk for the nice scamming community.
Because I would abuse the system to buy contracts off people I dont like or am in competition with, and slam bad feedback on them each time and drive their seller-score into the dirt *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 10:51:00 -
[2278] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:CCP, how about instead of occasionally banning people that prefer being a crook as a play style, you introduce a in-game business transaction certificate that becomes editable only for players that concluded a contract with the owner of the certificate. It should only be editable also when the contract is more then 70% of balance and only negative grades can be posted (the party that got the 70% hit is the only one that can grade). Contract goes through as off now but the grade sticks to the scam-er. Direct money transfer stays as it is now.
Don't flame me too hard, it is a rushed idea to insert some in-game risk for the nice scamming community. Because I would abuse the system to buy contracts off people I dont like or am in competition with, and slam bad feedback on them each time and drive their seller-score into the dirt
If the contract is fair you don't get to grade. Estimates should be run against Jita prices and if the value of the sold items is properly fits inside the 70% margin of value I've iterated previously then the contract is considered legit by default and no grading takes place. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3037
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 11:00:00 -
[2279] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:CCP, how about instead of occasionally banning people that prefer being a crook as a play style, you introduce a in-game business transaction certificate that becomes editable only for players that concluded a contract with the owner of the certificate. It should only be editable also when the contract is more then 70% of balance and only negative grades can be posted (the party that got the 70% hit is the only one that can grade). Contract goes through as off now but the grade sticks to the scam-er. Direct money transfer stays as it is now.
Don't flame me too hard, it is a rushed idea to insert some in-game risk for the nice scamming community. Because I would abuse the system to buy contracts off people I dont like or am in competition with, and slam bad feedback on them each time and drive their seller-score into the dirt If the contract is fair you don't get to grade. Estimates should be run against Jita prices and if the value of the sold items properly fits inside the 70% margin of value I've iterated previously then the contract is considered legit by default and no grading takes place.
And? how does this stop me abusing the system?
I place good grades on people who are known scammers then, in exchange for whatever we decided was a fair recompense for "falling" for the scam *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3034
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 11:08:00 -
[2280] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:trust me it's always a mistake to refer to people as sheep Chopper Rollins wrote:this just isn't as important to the game as some of Ero1s alts would like to think it is. lol?
So calling people sheep, not OK. Calling everyone who's opinion differs from your own an alt of a single character, fine? Is that how that works?
Gosh, all of Ripard Teg's alts are annoying.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 11:12:00 -
[2281] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:CCP, how about instead of occasionally banning people that prefer being a crook as a play style, you introduce a in-game business transaction certificate that becomes editable only for players that concluded a contract with the owner of the certificate. It should only be editable also when the contract is more then 70% of balance and only negative grades can be posted (the party that got the 70% hit is the only one that can grade). Contract goes through as off now but the grade sticks to the scam-er. Direct money transfer stays as it is now.
Don't flame me too hard, it is a rushed idea to insert some in-game risk for the nice scamming community. Because I would abuse the system to buy contracts off people I dont like or am in competition with, and slam bad feedback on them each time and drive their seller-score into the dirt If the contract is fair you don't get to grade. Estimates should be run against Jita prices and if the value of the sold items properly fits inside the 70% margin of value I've iterated previously then the contract is considered legit by default and no grading takes place. And? how does this stop me abusing the system? I place good grades on people who are known scammers then, in exchange for whatever we decided was a fair recompense for "falling" for the scam
Please read carefully. No good grade. 0 is the sum grade of the most honest virtual businessman. Good grades are too easy to abuse through alts and the like. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3039
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 11:35:00 -
[2282] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:
Please read carefully. No good grade. 0 is the sum grade of the most honest virtual businessman. Good grades are too easy to abuse through alts and the like.
Apologies, I missed that somehow.
So does your idea only count if the request amount is above market value?
and whats the best grade someone can give? Zero for a statisfactory transaction? And the score would be aggregate, average or sum of grades given? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3035
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 11:42:00 -
[2283] - Quote
The problem with a negative only rating system is that it in the end still show someone who has no or few negatives as "good", a moderate amount of negatives as "OK", and a lot of negative as "bad". People who contract more will have more exposure to ratings so will end up looking bad, while scammers will just control their volumes. If there's no cap on how far back the ratings go, you'll also get to the issue where it would be impossible for an older player to have a rating as good as an unused alt. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 12:29:00 -
[2284] - Quote
Didn't really refine the idea but let's see how it goes on the fly. Let's call the grade, flag. One can only give one flag / contract (all above stated conditions apply). And the sum of flags (negative feedback) should be displayed on the character info panel along side with the total number of transactions. So an older character that has 100 transactions (corp or inside account transactions should not be included) and 5 flags should be considered more trustworthy then a new character that has 10 transactions and 3 flags. The flags should only caution over the nature of the character and should not impede in any way his ability to run business using in-game mechanics.
If we are taking into account the ease to renew characters I doubt a perfect system can be put in place (or I fail to think of such system). Maybe such a grading should be applied account wide or some negative in game perks should derive from this statistic.
(rant mode on) CCP developers should really start looking in adding some type of risk for this type of game-play as long as they allow it. I'm just annoyed that these guys operate in-game right now under no or very little risk vs big in-game rewards and they cry baby how others want to transform EVE in Barbie online (rant mode off). |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3040
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 12:39:00 -
[2285] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote: (rant mode on) CCP developers should really start looking in adding some type of risk for this type of game-play as long as they allow it. I'm just annoyed that these guys operate in-game right now under no or very little risk vs big in-game rewards and they cry baby how others want to transform EVE in Barbie online (rant mode off).
Ok, well, apart from the next point, I think youve made a reasonably cast-iron case for your ratings post.
However, I wouldnt vote for it for the same reason that I disagree that contract-scamming should have added risk;
The terminally stupid should not be mollycoddled or protected in any way at all IMHO. The rating should apply to the buyer too if anything.
The occassional mis-click or buying something on the market for 10 times the value because you didnt put it in lowest-to-highest order is all very well, but when someone buys a Merlin for 20 mill thinking its a Worm (or whatever), two things happen. 1) HE learns about risk vs reward because he has suffered the risk for trading when the deal is too good to be true. 2) If it happens again he is being punished for his stupidity to teach him that being a moron is unacceptable.
Would YOU feel happy about flying in a fleet to protect your POS or Sov or Miners or whatever with someone who had been scammed half a dozen times?
I know I wouldnt.
Vote Peter Griffin for Mayor. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Amyclas Amatin
Novus Ordo Rangers
204
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 12:46:00 -
[2286] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim.
We're going to ban people based on what happens in the metagame now? The metagame can get really nasty and sometimes downright illegal.
Suppose a group of players believe that it isn't enough to blow up your enemy's assets, but the way to win is to destroy enemy communities, and they proceed to take actions that undermine player relationships, can such things be moderated? Forums can be hacked into, websites and servers of major alliances have been DDOSed, sometimes when alliance leaders go rogue, accusations of hacking will fly wildly, does CCP really want to get that involved in the meta game?
The meta-game spills over to real-life on many levels, because players have real lives. Alliance security is a nasty maze of out-of-game tools. The game of espionage can be far more brutal and is capable of crossing real-life legal boundaries in more drastic ways than simply humiliating someone on a soundcloud recording. Does CCP want to regulate this too? For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3040
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 12:50:00 -
[2287] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote: We're going to ban people based on what happens in the metagame now? The metagame can get really nasty and sometimes downright illegal.
Suppose a group of players believe that it isn't enough to blow up your enemy's assets, but the way to win is to destroy enemy communities, and they proceed to take actions that undermine player relationships, can such things be moderated? Forums can be hacked into, websites and servers of major alliances have been DDOSed, sometimes when alliance leaders go rogue, accusations of hacking will fly wildly, does CCP really want to get that involved in the meta game?
The meta-game spills over to real-life on many levels, because players have real lives. Alliance security is a nasty maze of out-of-game tools. The game of espionage can be far more brutal and is capable of crossing real-life legal boundaries in more drastic ways than simply humiliating someone on a soundcloud recording. Does CCP want to regulate this too?
Yes, this is in the EULA
You will be banned if found to have used out of game mechanisms in this manner
And you should count yourself lucky that if you DDOS they dont call Johnny Law on you too. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
689
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 12:53:00 -
[2288] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:trust me it's always a mistake to refer to people as sheep Chopper Rollins wrote:this just isn't as important to the game as some of Ero1s alts would like to think it is. lol? So calling people sheep, not OK. Calling everyone who's opinion differs from your own an alt of a single character, fine? Is that how that works? Gosh, all of Ripard Teg's alts are annoying.
ugh. I didn't say everyone whose opinion differs from mine is an alt of a single character. But you know that. Calling people sheep, lame and juvenile, thinking this hoo-ha is more than just a fooferaw, check your perspective. Strawman/10
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3037
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 12:58:00 -
[2289] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:trust me it's always a mistake to refer to people as sheep Chopper Rollins wrote:this just isn't as important to the game as some of Ero1s alts would like to think it is. lol? So calling people sheep, not OK. Calling everyone who's opinion differs from your own an alt of a single character, fine? Is that how that works? Gosh, all of Ripard Teg's alts are annoying. ugh. I didn't say everyone whose opinion differs from mine is an alt of a single character. But you know that. Calling people sheep, lame and juvenile, thinking this hoo-ha is more than just a fooferaw, check your perspective. Strawman/10 It's not a strawman at all (and when is the whole "lets call everything a strawman" going to go out of fashion?). It's pointing out that in the exact same post where you state that calling people sheep is a mistake you refer to another group of people as alts of an individual. Regardless of whether that's everyone you are referring to or some people, why is it any different? Why do you get to generalise while others aren't allowed? You're a hypocrite, that's why. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
620
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:11:00 -
[2290] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I am not sure it qualifies as a precedent, but CCP have made it clear that they find some behaviour unacceptable.
Yes, if you do something in game and arent reported, but someone ELSE takes it upon themselves to champion the victim's cause (without asking, telling or even TALKING to the victim about it) and whips up the mob, then you can be banned for whatever it was you did (without so much as a report from the victim).
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
620
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:15:00 -
[2291] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:If I owned CCP I would have given Ero a three month ban, and made it very clear to him that any similar behaviour by him in the future would mean that we would just have to manage without him playing our game, forever.
Where would you fall on someone who is throwing around racist insults or real life threats? OR is part of a really big corporation and wants those in said corporation to pester someone till they off themselves IRL? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
620
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:22:00 -
[2292] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote: We're going to ban people based on what happens in the metagame now? The metagame can get really nasty and sometimes downright illegal.
Suppose a group of players believe that it isn't enough to blow up your enemy's assets, but the way to win is to destroy enemy communities, and they proceed to take actions that undermine player relationships, can such things be moderated? Forums can be hacked into, websites and servers of major alliances have been DDOSed, sometimes when alliance leaders go rogue, accusations of hacking will fly wildly, does CCP really want to get that involved in the meta game?
The meta-game spills over to real-life on many levels, because players have real lives. Alliance security is a nasty maze of out-of-game tools. The game of espionage can be far more brutal and is capable of crossing real-life legal boundaries in more drastic ways than simply humiliating someone on a soundcloud recording. Does CCP want to regulate this too?
Yes, this is in the EULA You will be banned if found to have used out of game mechanisms in this manner And you should count yourself lucky that if you DDOS they dont call Johnny Law on you too.
Riiiiiiight, and CCP calling local authorities on those people (or other players) wont get this game shut down faster than the behavior E1 did left unchecked would have....
I can see THAT headline "Local man jailed for behaving badly in a video game" - because the headlines are always misleading PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
622
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:40:00 -
[2293] - Quote
Guess where Erotica went...
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/86226/giant-eve-online-katamari-damshii#latest PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3042
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:40:00 -
[2294] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Riiiiiiight, and CCP calling local authorities on those people (or other players) wont get this game shut down faster than the behavior E1 did left unchecked would have....
I can see THAT headline "Local man jailed for behaving badly in a video game" - because the headlines are always misleading
What part of "you should count yourself lucky that they dont" did you fail to grasp?
Or are you riding so high on your righteous indignation that you are now attacking everyone, even those who sympathise with your point of view.
But yeah, DDOSes are illegal. That is an actual fact. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
830
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 14:02:00 -
[2295] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim. Erotica 1 posed a good question on my blog. If the linking of the soundcloud one EvE-O was what brought the bonus room into CCP's purview and 'final straw' rationale for his ban, why is the link still there? Why wasn't it (or is it yet to be) cleansed by an ISD?
Is this evidence of axe-grinding against a person, ginned up by a CSM's initiation of a witch hunt, as opposed to true umbrage at what happened? Would you like to know more? |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2951
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 14:19:00 -
[2296] - Quote
It's very clearly a player with a privileged csm position doing his own personal axe-grinding, and nothing else.
I mean, nothing actually happened two months ago when this incident went down, it was only after ripard raising it to ccp, them rebuffing him, and then his little media blitz that anything happened |
CYL0N72
Eve Corporation 125335887 EVE Alliance 1236539078
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 15:05:00 -
[2297] - Quote
"......if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread,...."
If I voluntarily chose to "leave the virtual world" by using TeamSpeak, and voluntarily stay connected to said TeamSpeak, but decide I am being harassed while voluntarily staying on said Teamspeak, who is liable for said actions ? Who would be "punished" by CCP, if anyone ? Me (the harasser), the person hosting said TS, the people paying for said TS server, all the people talking on said TS, or the TS company itself ? ??????
Considering the fact that all the actions by all of the above parties are voluntary, seems no one should be punished.
Some people actually pay RL cash to be abused in RL. 8/ |
Anna Ohu
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:44:00 -
[2298] - Quote
I have a different view than most have voiced: the player that should be banned is the "victim". The ISK doubling is gambling, if a player has a problem with the loss of all virtual goods and ISK to that extent that he displayed, then that player has a problem and should not be allowed into the game, a casino would ban any player that reacted in such a way to a loss. It's like not serving an alcoholic. If you remove the vulnerable from the threat then "bad guys" can not do as much damage. AND BEFORE everyone goes up in arms, limiting the vulnerable players is already being done by age restrictions requiring account holders to be an adult or the account to be administered by an adult. I see both sides as being VERY SICK. Erotica1 dangles a carrot, if you do not have the ability to resist the carrot, you shouldn't be here. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3055
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 17:00:00 -
[2299] - Quote
Anna Ohu wrote:I see both sides as being VERY SICK
Hmm. Punish the sick.
I see it more as both are stupid in their own ways, E for pushing his luck, and Sohkar for doing it in the first place.
Sohkar was punished for his stupidity, as was E1, and so in my opinion it is done, whether I agree with the harshness of the punishments or not. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5730
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 18:15:00 -
[2300] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
That's nice, but you want to see funny and sad all wrapped up in one mentally ill package?
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/117605/new-to-the-forums-a-word-of-warning-to-the-mgmt-team-and-dev-s
|
|
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2342
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 18:35:00 -
[2301] - Quote
SC has lots of Goons and ex-Goons that are going to be playing it. What's the big deal? |
White Pauder
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 19:04:00 -
[2302] - Quote
CCP Falcon "you can continue to scam and rip eachother off as much as you like"
Yeah untill some noobie crys and files a ticket saying that they were verbally abused in comms for their mistake and then you ban the scammer. Yeah that wont happen will it................. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 19:32:00 -
[2303] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:With regard to the Ero 'saga'
I read on, I think it was Eurogamer, 'nerd world stuff'
"Nerd World problems" sums it up pretty well, a minor (but important) twist on the usual statement... |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 19:39:00 -
[2304] - Quote
The consistency Dinsdale brings to any game is worthy of credit... |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
627
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 21:59:00 -
[2305] - Quote
Quote:Read this thread and discuss it there.
Policy hasn't changed, and you can continue to scam and rip eachother off as much as you like.
Hey Falcon, if I did what E1 did, but didnt use TS, I assume that would be fine as theres no longer an out of game element? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
627
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 22:00:00 -
[2306] - Quote
Yeah, I pointed that out - in that thread actually
SC has lots of Goons and ex-Goons that are going to be playing it. What's the big deal?[/quote]
and a dev
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/117605/new-to-the-forums-a-word-of-warning-to-the-mgmt-team-and-dev-s/p4
assuming thats accurate
Quote:Ben Lesnick has been a member of Something Awful since 2004. PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
689
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 23:44:00 -
[2307] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:trust me it's always a mistake to refer to people as sheep Chopper Rollins wrote:this just isn't as important to the game as some of Ero1s alts would like to think it is. lol? So calling people sheep, not OK. Calling everyone who's opinion differs from your own an alt of a single character, fine? Is that how that works? Gosh, all of Ripard Teg's alts are annoying. ugh. I didn't say everyone whose opinion differs from mine is an alt of a single character. But you know that. Calling people sheep, lame and juvenile, thinking this hoo-ha is more than just a fooferaw, check your perspective. Strawman/10 It's not a strawman at all (and when is the whole "lets call everything a strawman" going to go out of fashion?). It's pointing out that in the exact same post where you state that calling people sheep is a mistake you refer to another group of people as alts of an individual. Regardless of whether that's everyone you are referring to or some people, why is it any different? Why do you get to generalise while others aren't allowed? You're a hypocrite, that's why.
Amazingly, against some incredible competition, this is the dumbest thing i've read on these forums. The reason people are calling out strawman arguments so much is because it's such a common way to talk crap. You say someone is saying something that they aren't, then refute it or call it into question. You haven't spoken to what i was saying, you set up a strawman and knocked it over. I also didn't generalise, i implied that a good many of the squirmy apologists and ingenuous whiners sound like CHOAD alts, since this isn't really important to the game. Hypocrisy is a pleasure you just can't deny people. Get a friggin grip.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
627
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 01:24:00 -
[2308] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote: stuff
The sig should say beer goggles lol PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 03:31:00 -
[2309] - Quote
Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim.
And he didn't get banned then whay again?
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
832
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 03:47:00 -
[2310] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim. And he didn't get banned until the end of march, Why again? And why wasn't the link simply removed by an ISD? Why hasn't the link STILL not been removed?
Perhaps this ban wasn't really about the content, more about a semantic reason to give the mob the blood they were calling for, as ginned up by a certain CSM with tales of 'torture'?
Would you like to know more? |
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 04:28:00 -
[2311] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim. And he didn't get banned until the end of march, Why again? And why wasn't the link simply removed by an ISD? Why hasn't the link STILL not been removed? Perhaps this ban wasn't really about the content, more about a semantic reason to give the mob the blood they were calling for, as ginned up by a certain CSM with tales of 'torture'?
Or why E1 was the only one banned and no one else that was involved who are just as guilty? Lets face it E1 caused bad publicity and that was the only reason he was banned... Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Lady Areola Fappington
new order logistics CODE.
1641
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 05:55:00 -
[2312] - Quote
Taking into account t20, Greed is Good, Mittens, and now Ero, I think it's pretty safe to say one of the unwritten rules of EVE is "Cause CCP embarrassment, expect bans."
t20=whistleblower got banned Greed is Good=whistleblower got banned Mittens=Made an ass of himself in public, made the news, got banned Ero=Made an ass of himself, got published on a CSM blog, made news, got banned
If this teaches us anything, it's to make sure anything we do off-EVE, related TO EVE, cannot be linked to accounts we care about. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3071
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 09:23:00 -
[2313] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Taking into account t20, Greed is Good, Mittens, and now Ero, I think it's pretty safe to say one of the unwritten rules of EVE is "Cause CCP embarrassment, expect bans."
Yeah, pretty much this
Not sure how anyone missed it
**** em off, lose your ball, simples *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 09:44:00 -
[2314] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:[snipped troll quote]
Amazingly, against some incredible competition, this is the dumbest thing i've read on these forums. The reason people are calling out strawman arguments so much is because it's such a common way to talk crap. You say someone is saying something that they aren't, then refute it or call it into question. You haven't spoken to what i was saying, you set up a strawman and knocked it over. I also didn't generalise, i implied that a good many of the squirmy apologists and ingenuous whiners sound like CHOAD alts, since this isn't really important to the game. Hypocrisy is a pleasure you just can't deny people. Get a friggin grip.
Just put him on block/hide posts. He made some sense when he said he'd quit posting but came back to dig his hole deeper. |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
46
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 13:04:00 -
[2315] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Taking into account t20, Greed is Good, Mittens, and now Ero, I think it's pretty safe to say one of the unwritten rules of EVE is "Cause CCP embarrassment, expect bans."
In this, of course, CCP is completely unlike every other game, ever.
CCP Falcon wrote:...CCP strongly disapproves of clear and extraordinary levels of real life harassment against our players in the outside world...real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts...We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior....
Some fools fall for scams, but epic fools scam themselves right into oncoming banbuses.
|
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
763
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 13:05:00 -
[2316] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Taking into account t20, Greed is Good, Mittens, and now Ero, I think it's pretty safe to say one of the unwritten rules of EVE is "Cause CCP embarrassment, expect bans."
t20=whistleblower got banned Greed is Good=whistleblower got banned Mittens=Made an ass of himself in public, made the news, got banned Ero=Made an ass of himself, got published on a CSM blog, made news, got banned
If this teaches us anything, it's to make sure anything we do off-EVE, related TO EVE, cannot be linked to accounts we care about. This is very true. I doubt they permabanned E1 because even mittens only got 30 days. That was for something clearly out of game and much worse! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3047
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 13:19:00 -
[2317] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Amazingly, against some incredible competition, this is the dumbest thing i've read on these forums. The reason people are calling out strawman arguments so much is because it's such a common way to talk crap. You say someone is saying something that they aren't, then refute it or call it into question. You haven't spoken to what i was saying, you set up a strawman and knocked it over. I also didn't generalise, i implied that a good many of the squirmy apologists and ingenuous whiners sound like CHOAD alts, since this isn't really important to the game. Hypocrisy is a pleasure you just can't deny people. Get a friggin grip. Lol, so explain exactly what is stupid there then.
First off, the whole "strawman" thing is FOTM. People are saying it repeatedly without a clue as to what it actually means.
Now on the to the actual point, YOU stated that people shouldn't call others sheep, then in the SAME POST you referred to others as alts of E1, which is no different. I'm sorry that you cant see how ridiculous that is to state, but that is your problem to deal with. I mean go ahead and reread your post. There's literally no other way to take it than you being some sperging hypocrite. And I'm almost certain you're smart enough to realise it, but instead of just saying "yeah, I was wrong to say that" you want to try to make it somehow about me by personally attacking me rather than refuting the actual point. Grow up. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3080
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 13:55:00 -
[2318] - Quote
Can someone be an actual man and (whether they feel it or not) admit defeat and say sorry?
Seriously *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1099
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 13:58:00 -
[2319] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post.
The Rules: 9. Posting of private CCP communication is prohibited.
The posting of private communication between the Game Masters, EVE Team members, Moderators, Administrators of the forums and forum users is prohibited. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including petition responses and emails) received from any of the aforementioned parties.
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3047
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 14:06:00 -
[2320] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Can someone be an actual man and (whether they feel it or not) admit defeat and say sorry? Seriously If I find myself in the wrong I most certainly will. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
630
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 14:13:00 -
[2321] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Liese Shardani wrote:When Erotica posted the link to the Sohkar Bonus Round on the EVE forums in late February, that cleared up any question of the audio possibly being doctored to frame him. It also brought an incident that occurred on a third party platform here onto CCP property. His posting of it, since he was the instigator, could be seen as further harassment of the victim. And he didn't get banned until the end of march, Why again?
They knew about the practice from November and didnt ban anyone until after the CSM blogged. Why again?
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: And why wasn't the link simply removed by an ISD? Why hasn't the link STILL not been removed?
Perhaps this ban wasn't really about the content, more about a semantic reason to give the mob the blood they were calling for, as ginned up by a certain CSM with tales of 'torture'?
Especially when the victim disagrees entirely? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3082
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 14:17:00 -
[2322] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Can someone be an actual man and (whether they feel it or not) admit defeat and say sorry? Seriously If I find myself in the wrong I most certainly will.
lol well I figured you would, but I may end up having to bribe someone to make the circular arguments stop *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3082
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 14:19:00 -
[2323] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:They knew about the practice from November and didnt ban anyone until after the CSM blogged. Why again? Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: And why wasn't the link simply removed by an ISD? Why hasn't the link STILL not been removed?
Perhaps this ban wasn't really about the content, more about a semantic reason to give the mob the blood they were calling for, as ginned up by a certain CSM with tales of 'torture'?
Especially when the victim disagrees entirely?
This happened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzSECYuo7n4 *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Marsha Mallow
202
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 19:07:00 -
[2324] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Can someone be an actual man and (whether they feel it or not) admit defeat and say sorry? Seriously Don't think roleplaying is allowed in GD, but who cares. I'm sorry. I surrender.
- |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
765
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 19:15:00 -
[2325] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Can someone be an actual man and (whether they feel it or not) admit defeat and say sorry? Seriously Don't think roleplaying is allowed in GD, but who cares. I'm sorry. I surrender. To me? |
Marsha Mallow
204
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 19:29:00 -
[2326] - Quote
IIshira wrote:To me? Sold. Get yer coat, lets go do the bonus round. With marmite.
We can compete by reading 50 Shades of Gray in an angry voice. First to cave by shouting "I feel emotionally violated" wins. - |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5071
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 19:29:00 -
[2327] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Can someone be an actual man and (whether they feel it or not) admit defeat and say sorry? Seriously If I find myself in the wrong I most certainly will. lol well I figured you would, but I may end up having to bribe someone to make the circular arguments stop
Lullaby time.
Round and round the forums Like a little bear One slip, two slip Banning just ain't fair
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1243
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 20:32:00 -
[2328] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:... The 99% that don't care are sheep..... Yeah i get what you're saying but trust me it's always a mistake to refer to people as sheep. That feeling of being the only person who's awake and validating yourself by declaring that people are stupid is an adolescent phase. In it's extremest expression, such a sentiment is usually expressed by schizoid murderers, the type who may read Nietszche daily but always seem to end up hurting mainly women and children. No i'm not calling you a crazy killer, get down off the mantlepiece, put that gun away and take off that ballgown, this just isn't as important to the game as some of Ero1s alts would like to think it is.
I hope you like my ballgown, I got it from the nex store lol.
no offence taken. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1243
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 20:34:00 -
[2329] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The 99% that don't care are sheep. One day they'll wake up when eve is transformed into hello kitty online and bleat that eve isn't as good as it used to be, that there is no danger anymore and the sandbox is boring, but by then it will be too late.
Drama queen much??? What are those dangers to which station scam-er alts are exposed now? Bounties? Clearly you are joking. War decs? You can't be serious. It is "Hello Kitty" for people that prefer this type of game-play. And because it is, one virtual jerk pushed the envelope well beyond any shred of decency. And now, faced with the consequences of his actions, he sheds sweat tears on the internet. Sweetest tears ever, nomnomnom. Rip what you saw. This thread is so full of straw men that it rivals the Chinese Terracotta ARMY.
The point you are missing is that erotica isn't facing the consequences of anyone but ripard teg's actions.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Anslo
Scope Works
4772
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 20:45:00 -
[2330] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The 99% that don't care are sheep. One day they'll wake up when eve is transformed into hello kitty online and bleat that eve isn't as good as it used to be, that there is no danger anymore and the sandbox is boring, but by then it will be too late.
Drama queen much??? What are those dangers to which station scam-er alts are exposed now? Bounties? Clearly you are joking. War decs? You can't be serious. It is "Hello Kitty" for people that prefer this type of game-play. And because it is, one virtual jerk pushed the envelope well beyond any shred of decency. And now, faced with the consequences of his actions, he sheds sweat tears on the internet. Sweetest tears ever, nomnomnom. Rip what you saw. This thread is so full of straw men that it rivals the Chinese Terracotta ARMY. The point you are missing is that erotica isn't facing the consequences of anyone but ripard teg's actions. No. Ero is getting karma biting back after all this time. Deal with it.
|
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1243
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 20:58:00 -
[2331] - Quote
A dinsdale thread on the sc forums. Reading his post has put me right of star citizen, it's increasingly looking like a game for care bears and it's death mechanics seem almost meaningless. I don't think sc is going to be a threat to eve at all.
Bring on elite dangerous. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1243
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 20:59:00 -
[2332] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The 99% that don't care are sheep. One day they'll wake up when eve is transformed into hello kitty online and bleat that eve isn't as good as it used to be, that there is no danger anymore and the sandbox is boring, but by then it will be too late.
Drama queen much??? What are those dangers to which station scam-er alts are exposed now? Bounties? Clearly you are joking. War decs? You can't be serious. It is "Hello Kitty" for people that prefer this type of game-play. And because it is, one virtual jerk pushed the envelope well beyond any shred of decency. And now, faced with the consequences of his actions, he sheds sweat tears on the internet. Sweetest tears ever, nomnomnom. Rip what you saw. This thread is so full of straw men that it rivals the Chinese Terracotta ARMY. The point you are missing is that erotica isn't facing the consequences of anyone but ripard teg's actions. No. Ero is getting karma biting back after all this time. Deal with it.
Keep it in church man, karma doesn't exist, politics however does. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Marsha Mallow
207
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 21:01:00 -
[2333] - Quote
Anslo wrote:No. Ero is getting karma biting back after all this time. Deal with it. Life's a biatch, then you marry one. As we say, before muttering "Gotcha. You're doomed, just so you know. Smile for the photographer". - |
Jayem See
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2555
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 22:03:00 -
[2334] - Quote
In some ways we all have to remember that E1 has done something that not many players will ever manage to do.
He made a name for himself in Eve.
Not a bad achievement considering.
He's probably already on an alt batting away. If Poetic can manage it, and if you believe him he is a member of BNI, then I don't doubt our most notorious scammer is any different.
Still a bit of a **** though.
Aaaaaaand relax. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
692
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 23:36:00 -
[2335] - Quote
Jayem See wrote:In some ways we all have to remember that E1 has done something that not many players will ever manage to do.
He made a name for himself in Eve.
Not a bad achievement considering.
...
Yeah the name Helicity Boson is so well known, the story of that ban is regularly told. Same sort of threadnaughts, same amount of fuss and accusations of weakness/evil. All these moments will be lost.... like droplets of ****.... in an ocean of ****. Time to lock teh thread.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Marsha Mallow
207
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 23:45:00 -
[2336] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote: Yeah the name Helicity Boson is so well known, the story of that ban is regularly told. Same sort of threadnaughts, same amount of fuss and accusations of weakness/evil. All these moments will be lost.... like droplets of ****.... in an ocean of ****. Time to lock teh thread.
You shut your gob! I still have my "FREE HELICITY" ships AND my neg rep Jita alts >.> Watch it. There's plenty of new posters gleefully setting up verbal traps for lazy troll vet slags. - |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
634
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 23:52:00 -
[2337] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Yeah the name Helicity Boson is so well known,
If you dont know who that is and you play this; please uninstall
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5078
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 00:44:00 -
[2338] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:
Yeah the name Helicity Boson is so well known,
If you dont know who that is and you play this; please uninstall
I know. I know. Pick me!
That's the person the little bees stole Hulkageddon from, right?
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
634
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 00:54:00 -
[2339] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:
Yeah the name Helicity Boson is so well known,
If you dont know who that is and you play this; please uninstall I know. I know. Pick me! That's the person the little bees stole Hulkageddon from, right? Mr Epeen
Pretty much XD
Or who is the person who told an oddly, EXTREMELY thin-skinned EVE dev to "diaf" and got banned (and apparently the idea that this shouldnt be bannable breaks Malcanis' mind) PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Lady Areola Fappington
new order logistics CODE.
1649
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 01:58:00 -
[2340] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:
Yeah the name Helicity Boson is so well known,
If you dont know who that is and you play this; please uninstall I know. I know. Pick me! That's the person the little bees stole Hulkageddon from, right? Mr Epeen Pretty much XD Or who is the person who told an oddly, EXTREMELY thin-skinned EVE dev to "diaf" and got banned (and apparently the idea that this shouldnt be bannable breaks Malcanis' mind)
It's been a minute or two for me, but wasn't Helicity also the whistleblower for Greed is Good? I seem to remember noise being made that Helicity totally wasn't banned for making CCP look bad, it was all about threats to a dev that just all coincidentally happened at the same time. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
634
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 03:40:00 -
[2341] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:
Yeah the name Helicity Boson is so well known,
If you dont know who that is and you play this; please uninstall I know. I know. Pick me! That's the person the little bees stole Hulkageddon from, right? Mr Epeen Pretty much XD Or who is the person who told an oddly, EXTREMELY thin-skinned EVE dev to "diaf" and got banned (and apparently the idea that this shouldnt be bannable breaks Malcanis' mind) It's been a minute or two for me, but wasn't Helicity also the whistleblower for Greed is Good? I seem to remember noise being made that Helicity totally wasn't banned for making CCP look bad, it was all about threats to a dev that just all coincidentally happened at the same time.
I tyhink the whistleblower for GiG was an employee as that was a in house newsl;etter PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Lady Areola Fappington
new order logistics CODE.
1649
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 05:26:00 -
[2342] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
I tyhink the whistleblower for GiG was an employee as that was a in house newsl;etter
Ahh, it WAS Helicity that revealed GiG.
Also share some of that booze Malks, jeez. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
635
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 05:42:00 -
[2343] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
I tyhink the whistleblower for GiG was an employee as that was a in house newsl;etter
Ahh, it WAS Helicity that revealed GiG. Also share some of that booze Malks, jeez.
The GiG newsletter was a in house internal memo wasnt it? Howd she get it? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 12:05:00 -
[2344] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:[snipped]
Ahh, it WAS Helicity that revealed GiG.
Also share some of that booze Malks, jeez.
I don't think it's booze... |
Anslo
Scope Works
4776
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 15:36:00 -
[2345] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote: Keep it in church man, karma doesn't exist, politics however does.
Of course it exists. Sometimes it just takes people to give it a little push for it to come back and bite.
Wonder how long it'll be before it comes for you?
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3118
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:13:00 -
[2346] - Quote
Anslo wrote: Of course it exists.
Please cite the paper which proves the existence of celestial judgement
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Anslo
Scope Works
4777
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:17:00 -
[2347] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote: Of course it exists.
Please cite the paper which proves the existence of celestial judgement
Undock once and a while and you might get to be a case study candles.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
641
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:20:00 -
[2348] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The 99% that don't care are sheep. One day they'll wake up when eve is transformed into hello kitty online and bleat that eve isn't as good as it used to be, that there is no danger anymore and the sandbox is boring, but by then it will be too late.
Drama queen much??? What are those dangers to which station scam-er alts are exposed now? Bounties? Clearly you are joking. War decs? You can't be serious. It is "Hello Kitty" for people that prefer this type of game-play. And because it is, one virtual jerk pushed the envelope well beyond any shred of decency. And now, faced with the consequences of his actions, he sheds sweat tears on the internet. Sweetest tears ever, nomnomnom. Rip what you saw. This thread is so full of straw men that it rivals the Chinese Terracotta ARMY. The point you are missing is that erotica isn't facing the consequences of anyone but ripard teg's actions.
I dont like the EVE where I can get banned for doing something to someone when the person I didnt it to didnt care enought to petition it, but someone else blogs instead PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Anslo
Scope Works
4777
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:25:00 -
[2349] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The 99% that don't care are sheep. One day they'll wake up when eve is transformed into hello kitty online and bleat that eve isn't as good as it used to be, that there is no danger anymore and the sandbox is boring, but by then it will be too late.
Drama queen much??? What are those dangers to which station scam-er alts are exposed now? Bounties? Clearly you are joking. War decs? You can't be serious. It is "Hello Kitty" for people that prefer this type of game-play. And because it is, one virtual jerk pushed the envelope well beyond any shred of decency. And now, faced with the consequences of his actions, he sheds sweat tears on the internet. Sweetest tears ever, nomnomnom. Rip what you saw. This thread is so full of straw men that it rivals the Chinese Terracotta ARMY. The point you are missing is that erotica isn't facing the consequences of anyone but ripard teg's actions. I dont like the EVE where I can get banned for doing something to someone when the person I didnt it to didnt care enought to petition it, but someone else blogs instead
Yeah cause being a decent person and calling bullshit when one sees it is so horrid right?
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3119
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:26:00 -
[2350] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote: Of course it exists.
Please cite the paper which proves the existence of celestial judgement Undock once and a while and you might get to be a case study candles.
lol your intel is as weak as your position
I havent docked in days
So if you could provide the link now, that would be super, Mr "Decent Person" *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
|
Anslo
Scope Works
4777
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:32:00 -
[2351] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote: Of course it exists.
Please cite the paper which proves the existence of celestial judgement Undock once and a while and you might get to be a case study candles. lol your intel is as weak as your position I havent docked in days So if you could provide the link now, that would be super, Mr "Decent Person" Since when do I give two fucks about defending my position against tear collectors and their defends?
The game is changing, and for the better. If you don't like it, talk and debate less, bitching gets you nowhere, nor does your passive aggressive pseudo intellectual bull ****.
If you wanna keep your precious harassing, fight.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3119
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:36:00 -
[2352] - Quote
Anslo wrote: Since when do I give two fucks about defending my position against tear collectors and their defends?
The game is changing, and for the better. If you don't like it, talk and debate less, bitching gets you nowhere, nor does your passive aggressive pseudo intellectual bull ****.
If you wanna keep your precious harassing, fight.
lol So, no, you have no intel, no proof and so much for being "decent"; you're just a swearing, big-headed arrogant so-and-so who cant fight for toffee and find a target in a target rich environment.
Your position has crumbled and rather than give up with grace and act like a man, you turn to personal attacks.
You do nothing but hurt your own cause.
And I dont really care if you dont care, you are wrong and you know it. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Anslo
Scope Works
4777
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:37:00 -
[2353] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:
And I dont really care if you dont care, you are wrong and you know it.
"Please cite your source for knowing that I know I am wrong."
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3119
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:39:00 -
[2354] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
And I dont really care if you dont care, you are wrong and you know it.
"Please cite your source for knowing that I know I am wrong."
Good comeback, Garth
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5091
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 19:57:00 -
[2355] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
And I dont really care if you dont care, you are wrong and you know it.
"Please cite your source for knowing that I know I am wrong." Good comeback, Garth
I'm picturing you two having make-up sex now. I don't mind saying that the picture in my head is creeping me out a little.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1248
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 21:49:00 -
[2356] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote: Keep it in church man, karma doesn't exist, politics however does.
Of course it exists. Sometimes it just takes people to give it a little push for it to come back and bite. Wonder how long it'll be before it comes for you?
Since I've lived a completely blameless life I cant see it coming at all. This surely is my final incarnation upon this earth as next I am ascending to godhood to spend eternity with all of the other pure souls out there.
Playing Karma in the sense that most people think of it is like playing 'hitting hammers' I hit you, you hit me, I hit you again, you hit me again etc, all the while both of us can claim to be an instrument of karma putting right the previous injustices we've inflicted upon each other. It's senseless and stupid which is why Karma in the sense that most people think of it as doesn't actually exist it's just a recipe for eternal conflict.
Now we get on to true Karma which is all about growing spiritually by understanding the consequences of your previous misdeeds. It takes an elevated soul to break the cycle of True Karma by turning the other cheek. This is the message of all spiritual leaders that have come before us. Now there isn't much spirituality in eve but there is plenty of politics.
Erotica did a bad thing in the bonus room and you can argue that he escalated the situation by posting the recording, Sokhar broke the wheel of karma by turning the other cheek by not complaining to CCP about the stuff Erotica did and was happy to draw a line under the whole thing. In true CCP style he HTFU and kept playing eve and admitted that he too should have been banned for his racist comments and bad behaviour which in many ways was just as bad or even worse than the ***** and giggles that Erotica was doing. Sokhar has profited spiritually from this and is one step closer to perfection, erotica however has learned nothing and remains where he is in terms of perfection of the soul.
Then came along Ripard Teg on his blindingly white charger and without speaking to either party decided to campaign about Erotica's behaviour in a very successful attempt to remove a potential political opponent from running in and likely being elected to the CSM.
Ripard Teg is not an instrument of karma, he is generating some Karma though by being opportunistic about the whole thing and seeking to profit from other people's misery. Out of the whole episode Sokhar is the one that has learned the most spiritually and as such has no outstanding bad karma coming to him as a result of this situation despite the fact that the Ripard Teg's manipulations have made Sokhar toxic in eve for the time being. I am sure that he will eventually prosper and do well.
How Ripard satisfies his Karmic debt though remains to be seen, but I am sure that when the time comes it will be interesting, because the consequences of his actions remain unresolved and as far as I am aware he hasn't taken any time to try and understand the consequences of his misdeeds . He might even think he's righteous in all of this, but he isn't.
It would be like jesus gunning down the romans with a machine gun.
Anyhow I'm off to build a picture house for the Dalai Lama, we're moving earth worms by hand next. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
695
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 21:58:00 -
[2357] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:... I dont like the EVE where I can get banned for doing something to someone when the person I didnt it to didnt care enought to petition it, but someone else blogs instead
But that was top shelf meta-game and rabble rousing, you know you'd love to be on the handle end of that poopy stick.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
645
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 22:40:00 -
[2358] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The 99% that don't care are sheep. One day they'll wake up when eve is transformed into hello kitty online and bleat that eve isn't as good as it used to be, that there is no danger anymore and the sandbox is boring, but by then it will be too late.
Drama queen much??? What are those dangers to which station scam-er alts are exposed now? Bounties? Clearly you are joking. War decs? You can't be serious. It is "Hello Kitty" for people that prefer this type of game-play. And because it is, one virtual jerk pushed the envelope well beyond any shred of decency. And now, faced with the consequences of his actions, he sheds sweat tears on the internet. Sweetest tears ever, nomnomnom. Rip what you saw. This thread is so full of straw men that it rivals the Chinese Terracotta ARMY. The point you are missing is that erotica isn't facing the consequences of anyone but ripard teg's actions. I dont like the EVE where I can get banned for doing something to someone when the person I didnt it to didnt care enought to petition it, but someone else blogs instead Yeah cause being a decent person and calling bullshit when one sees it is so horrid right?
INCLUDING THE VICTIM? Yeah, actually thats pretty bullshit.
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Tysun Kane
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 00:36:00 -
[2359] - Quote
Man I am just learning about this incident from the Cap Stable podcast I listen to. IMO this RL harassment just went to far BUT I also believe that the only thing that CCP seems to think is wrong is that it made it to there forums and that brings it to to the large audience and including all the new players we have had lately. This is the world that CCP has created and has allowed to happen with in there game mechanics. Everyday the forums and in game chat channels have complaints about grievers and scammers and CCP hasn't done anything because its all apart of EVE and its mechanics. CCP is in a tough spot right now. There actions with this indecent will show the gaming world what EVE and CCP truly is deep down, and that's scary. I for one am sure about one thing, a MMO that allows such behavior to go on without a permanent ban for the main toon involved and ALL others that helped it get to that point. If that doesn't happen the human being inside myself cannot be apart of a game like that and continue to financially support a company that allows such behavior even if the guy was stupid that doesn't change anything. So its ok to make fun of and take advantage of any mentally disabled people in the world just cause we can and its in the game mechanics? NO that's ******* disgusting and I wont be apart of that. And anyone that condones such behavior you all should be ashamed of yourself for even posting in that persons defense.
This kind of thing has happen before. So when will the playerbase finally have enough?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.357599-Eve-Online-Panel-Encourages-Harassing-Suicidal-Player |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
837
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 02:03:00 -
[2360] - Quote
What many avoid mentioning (including Ripard Teg who also avoided answering his emails) is Sohkars response to what Erotica1 did in his own words...
Read about it here.
Pretty strong indictment that people rushed the barricades on his behalf a little prematurely, and are projecting their own personal biases into the mix.
F
Would you like to know more? |
|
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
695
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 03:32:00 -
[2361] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:... Pretty strong indictment that people rushed the barricades on his behalf a little prematurely, and are projecting their own personal biases into the mix.
They are allowed to do that. Looks like Teg made something he disapproved of an issue for CCP and they were forced to deal with it by the very vocal majority. I approve of this. That whiny blog lost credibility immediately by referring to anyone opposing his view as pansies or carebears or whatever. Cry moar. I was bored of Erotica1 and the whole CHOAD thing by late 2013, but i couldn't have predicted this. All the whines about how Ero1s ban is the impending HelloKittification of EvE are just moar delicious tears. Tears from the defeated. Game over.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
2344
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 04:33:00 -
[2362] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:What many avoid mentioning (including Ripard Teg who also avoided answering his emails) is Sohkars response to what Erotica1 did in his own words... Read about it here. Pretty strong indictment that people rushed the barricades on his behalf a little prematurely, and are projecting their own personal biases into the mix. F
Ripard Teg created a witch hunt. He used the right words to incite people that all ready had a disliking of scammers, gankers and awoxers and took advantage of it.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
659
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 05:45:00 -
[2363] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:... Pretty strong indictment that people rushed the barricades on his behalf a little prematurely, and are projecting their own personal biases into the mix.
They are allowed to do that. Looks like Teg made something he disapproved of an issue for CCP and they were forced to deal with it by the very vocal majority.I approve of this. That whiny blog lost credibility immediately by referring to anyone opposing his view as pansies or carebears or whatever. Cry moar. I was bored of Erotica1 and the whole CHOAD thing by late 2013, but i couldn't have predicted this. All the whines about how Ero1s ban is the impending HelloKittification of EvE are just moar delicious tears. Tears from the defeated. Game over.
And then tear collection becomes bannable. But you wont have a problem with that right? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
262
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 06:24:00 -
[2364] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:... Pretty strong indictment that people rushed the barricades on his behalf a little prematurely, and are projecting their own personal biases into the mix.
They are allowed to do that. Looks like Teg made something he disapproved of an issue for CCP and they were forced to deal with it by the very vocal majority.I approve of this. That whiny blog lost credibility immediately by referring to anyone opposing his view as pansies or carebears or whatever. Cry moar. I was bored of Erotica1 and the whole CHOAD thing by late 2013, but i couldn't have predicted this. All the whines about how Ero1s ban is the impending HelloKittification of EvE are just moar delicious tears. Tears from the defeated. Game over. When you start posting with your main, the words you are saying might actually hold some weight.
Ripard Teg didn't make the bonus room an issue for CCP; he made HIMSELF an issue for CCP.
As he is a member of the CSM, you can be almost 100% sure that he went to CCP first about the issue, and they investigated it and then decided Erotica wasn't doing anything worthy of a ban (just like they did every other time he was petitioned before that). THAT is where the issue should have ended. But Ripard Teg didn't get his way, so of course it couldn't end there.
He then decided that the next logical step was to go straight to the press with a fabricated story and threw around buzzwords like "Cyber-bullying" for attention and to get a rise out of people. He blatantly lied about what actually goes on during a bonus round, and he was even bold enough to link the recording to legitimize it, knowing that most people would be way too lazy to actually listen to the recording and would just believe whatever he said in his blog post anyway.
He then threatened to spread these lies to any media outlet that would take him seriously if they didn't ban Erotica. This is nothing short of blackmail. A CSM member, who is supposed to have the game's best interest in mind, blackmailed CCP with a threat of bad publicity over a personal vendetta against another player, and got away with it.
Also, you think Ripard had the majority of Eve on his side? There were less than 400 participants in that thread, and most of the anti-Erotica posts were from 10 or so trolls repeating the same things over and over again dozens to hundreds of times. Those trolls mindlessly repeated the same lies over and over, purposely drowning out any chance of rational, civil discussion. With most of them throwing around words like "Torture" and "Cyber-bullying", their agenda was quite clear. Those were not the words of people who wanted CCP to take a serious look at the issue: they were the words of people who were trying to intentionally blow the issue way out of proportion (like Teg did) because they knew Erotica did nothing against any rules, so they HAD to make it into a bigger issue than it actually was to get results. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 06:36:00 -
[2365] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
I dont like the EVE where I can get banned for doing something to someone when the person I didnt it to didnt care enought to petition it, but someone else blogs instead
Every one in the politics that was ever caught with the hand in the cookie jar was screaming "political vendetta". They never admit that maybe they shouldn't have heist the cookies . I would say plenty about Shokar but it won't stay long on the forums so instead I'll only say that he surely isn't the person I want to trust with making decisions about EVE.
Yesterday I've visited Jita and I found it to be the same nest of scam-ers and bandits it ever was so I've come to the conclusion that this entire affair is not having the game changing impact you guys are trying to make it be.
If Erotica was banned w/o previous warning then I'll admit that maybe the punishment was a bit harsh. Sometimes the referee gives you the red card at first offense considering that you should have known better then to do that offense. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3054
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 06:37:00 -
[2366] - Quote
Tysun Kane wrote:Man I am just learning about this incident from the Cap Stable podcast I listen to. IMO this RL harassment just went to far BUT I also believe that the only thing that CCP seems to think is wrong is that it made it to there forums and that brings it to to the large audience and including all the new players we have had lately. This is the world that CCP has created and has allowed to happen with in there game mechanics. Everyday the forums and in game chat channels have complaints about grievers and scammers and CCP hasn't done anything because its all apart of EVE and its mechanics. CCP is in a tough spot right now. There actions with this indecent will show the gaming world what EVE and CCP truly is deep down, and that's scary. I for one am sure about one thing, a MMO that allows such behavior to go on without a permanent ban for the main toon involved and ALL others that helped it get to that point. If that doesn't happen the human being inside myself cannot be apart of a game like that and continue to financially support a company that allows such behavior even if the guy was stupid that doesn't change anything. So its ok to make fun of and take advantage of any mentally disabled people in the world just cause we can and its in the game mechanics? NO that's ******* disgusting and I wont be apart of that. And anyone that condones such behavior you all should be ashamed of yourself for even posting in that persons defense. This kind of thing has happen before. So when will the playerbase finally have enough? http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.357599-Eve-Online-Panel-Encourages-Harassing-Suicidal-Player So you listened to one side of the story in a clearly biased podcast. How about listening to the other side: http://funkybacon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/e1sohkar-getting-full-story-in-35-hours.html
Funkybacon took the time to get as many people on to speak about it on eve-radio, managing to get both Erotica 1 and Sohkar. Ripard Teg refused to go on, since he will only speak to people about it if they are 100% on his side, which is also why he wont speak to the actual victim who is against him on this.
In honesty, taking a position of power and using that power to bully someone you don't like out of game is far far worse than anything Erotica 1 has ever done. Do yourself a favour and make sure you get all sides of a story before mindlessly siding with scum like Ripard Teg. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3055
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 06:51:00 -
[2367] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:... Pretty strong indictment that people rushed the barricades on his behalf a little prematurely, and are projecting their own personal biases into the mix. They are allowed to do that. Looks like Teg made something he disapproved of an issue for CCP and they were forced to deal with it by the very vocal majority.I approve of this. That whiny blog lost credibility immediately by referring to anyone opposing his view as pansies or carebears or whatever. Cry moar. I was bored of Erotica1 and the whole CHOAD thing by late 2013, but i couldn't have predicted this. All the whines about how Ero1s ban is the impending HelloKittification of EvE are just moar delicious tears. Tears from the defeated. Game over. HAHAHAHAHAHA! Majority. Yeah right. Lets see the stats on that then. Chribba put them together for us. In over 400 pages of rant, which was posters on both sides of the issue, there were less than 400 individual characters posting. So if you think a less than 400 people (including the Pro-E1 characters) constitutes the majority you are sadly mistaken.
All this is is a CSM abusing his position to stir up a hate campaign against a single player. Like any other type of political corruption, it didn't need to be right and it didn't need a majority backing, it just needed enough people that either unerring followed a CSM or got scammed and wanted their own back. No matter how much you think you are in the right (after reading his blog and not bothering to listen to people like, I don't know, the victim maybe), all you are is a pitchfork wielding member of the community being used by Ripard Teg to push his own agenda. To go outside the rules and kick people out of the game that he doesn't like. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 07:12:00 -
[2368] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA! Majority. Yeah right. Lets see the stats on that then. Chribba put them together for us. In over 400 pages of rant, which was posters on both sides of the issue, there were less than 400 individual characters posting. So if you think a less than 400 people (including the Pro-E1 characters) constitutes the majority you are sadly mistaken.
All this is is a CSM abusing his position to stir up a hate campaign against a single player. Like any other type of political corruption, it didn't need to be right and it didn't need a majority backing, it just needed enough people that either unerring followed a CSM or got scammed and wanted their own back. No matter how much you think you are in the right (after reading his blog and not bothering to listen to people like, I don't know, the victim maybe), all you are is a pitchfork wielding member of the community being used by Ripard Teg to push his own agenda. To go outside the rules and kick people out of the game that he doesn't like.
Common dude, stop with this flawed logic. You are implying that this Tag guy is some kind of villain that would have got Erotica banned even if the bonus room podcast would have been about teaching Shokar about EVE mechanics (you know what i mean so don't douche twist it). This is wrong on many levels. Even if Tag had some political goal it doesn't change the fact that Erotica was the one that provided him "ammunition". Bottom line is, does the fact that Tag has a political agenda makes what Erotica&Comp did, acceptable behavior? I would say no (opinion) and it looks I'm not the only one that think like that. Yes, yes, I know, we are sheep! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3056
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 07:39:00 -
[2369] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHA! Majority. Yeah right. Lets see the stats on that then. Chribba put them together for us. In over 400 pages of rant, which was posters on both sides of the issue, there were less than 400 individual characters posting. So if you think a less than 400 people (including the Pro-E1 characters) constitutes the majority you are sadly mistaken.
All this is is a CSM abusing his position to stir up a hate campaign against a single player. Like any other type of political corruption, it didn't need to be right and it didn't need a majority backing, it just needed enough people that either unerring followed a CSM or got scammed and wanted their own back. No matter how much you think you are in the right (after reading his blog and not bothering to listen to people like, I don't know, the victim maybe), all you are is a pitchfork wielding member of the community being used by Ripard Teg to push his own agenda. To go outside the rules and kick people out of the game that he doesn't like. Common dude, stop with this flawed logic. You are implying that this Tag guy is some kind of villain that would have got Erotica banned even if the bonus room podcast would have been about teaching Shokar about EVE mechanics (you know what i mean so don't douche twist it). This is wrong on many levels. Even if Tag had some political goal it doesn't change the fact that Erotica was the one that provided him "ammunition". Bottom line is, does the fact that Tag has a political agenda makes what Erotica&Comp did, acceptable behavior? I would say no (opinion) and it looks I'm not the only one that think like that. Yes, yes, I know, we are sheep! His name is Teg. Good job getting the facts right. And I don't think the behaviour presented was unacceptable. Have you listened to the recording? Have you listened to the victim talking about the recording with Erotica 1? The thing is, these recordings have been happening for a year or so and have been posted on the forum, complained about by a few, petitioned by some too and all was fine. It's no different from bumping a freighter for several hours just for fun, or keeping a pod warp scrammed in the middle of nowhere while laughing at it's owner. They didn't force him to do anything, and at any point he could have left. This is in the victims own words.
All that happened here is Ripard Teg wanted to get a player out of the game that he didn't personally like, so he stirred up a public hate campaign against that player, using terms like "torture" and "cyber-bullying" which he knows would result in press coverage if left uncontested, forcing CCP to react hastily. He abused his position to get what he personally wanted. That is not why the CSM was elected. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
263
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 07:40:00 -
[2370] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Every one in the politics that was ever caught with the hand in the cookie jar was screaming "political vendetta". They never admit that maybe they shouldn't have heist the cookies . What if it was in a video game where stealing the cookies was not only acceptable within the rules of the game, but was a time-honored tradition, and something that CCP embraced and advertised for years?
The bonus round was nothing more than light and extremely civil trolling combined with some singing on TeamSpeak. This is something that has been celebrated by Eve players for years and years.
Later there was some tear extraction, which is another time-honored tradition, both in-game and out. Despite what the carebears and rabble-rousers were screaming on the forums, the fact that it was happening on a third-party TeamSpeak server has never been an issue before in Eve. Tear extraction has ALWAYS been allowed on third party voice chat clients, and this is LITERALLY THE FIRST PUBLIC INSTANCE OF ANYONE BEING BANNED FOR INTERACTIONS BETWEEN PLAYERS ON A THIRD PARTY PLATFORM.
The reason for this is very simple: CCP does not own our voice chat servers. Nor do they own our private forums. The fact that some or even all of us play their game doesn't matter one bit, even if we happen to be talking about their game in our recording. It is not CCP's place to decide what kind of interactions are allowable between consenting adults on a third party platform. It's not their place to tell us how long we are allowed to sing for on our own TS server, or how angry or vocal we are allowed to get, or how many times we are allowed to place the N-word in a single sentence. The EULA and the TOS only apply to Eve. Until CCP starts paying for my TS server, they don't get to decide what is acceptable behavior for the people on it.
Quote:Yesterday I've visited Jita and I found it to be the same nest of scam-ers and bandits it ever was so I've come to the conclusion that this entire affair is not having the game changing impact you guys are trying to make it be. Nobody ever said this was bad for scamming. There are a handful of issues wrong with the whole situation, but the two major ones are: 1) It is very bad for the meta, and any interactions that happen out of game. This is the first known instance of CCP ever moderating third party social platforms, and this decision means basically all of us need to completely change the way we interact with each other on our own voice chat servers, forums, twitter accounts, and basically anything else CCP might see/hear for fear of a possible ban. People should be more troubled by the thought of this than they are. 2) This whole thing just reeks of favoritism and corruption. If you look at the facts, it is very clear that this was Ripard Teg's personal vendetta and CCP folded to his whining and forum-warrioring and banned a player for something that has never been ban-worthy despite the fact that it has been done thousands of times before by thousands of players. Mittens told someone to kill themselves live on stream with thousands of people watching and only got a 30 day ban, but somehow CCP thinks asking someone to sing on TeamSpeak is worthy of a permaban. CSM favoritism much?
Quote:If Erotica was banned w/o previous warning then I'll admit that maybe the punishment was a bit harsh. Sometimes the referee gives you the red card at first offense considering that you should have known better then to do that offense. The bonus rounds were petitioned many times and each time CCP said they were perfectly acceptable. They only become ban-worthy when you have a very vocal CSM member with a personal vendetta on a power trip crying very loudly with a small army of carebears with torches and pitchforks behind him. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
|
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 08:20:00 -
[2371] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:His name is Teg. Good job getting the facts right. And I don't think the behaviour presented was unacceptable. Have you listened to the recording? Have you listened to the victim talking about the recording with Erotica 1? The thing is, these recordings have been happening for a year or so and have been posted on the forum, complained about by a few, petitioned by some too and all was fine. It's no different from bumping a freighter for several hours just for fun, or keeping a pod warp scrammed in the middle of nowhere while laughing at it's owner. They didn't force him to do anything, and at any point he could have left. This is in the victims own words.
All that happened here is Ripard Teg wanted to get a player out of the game that he didn't personally like, so he stirred up a public hate campaign against that player, using terms like "torture" and "cyber-bullying" which he knows would result in press coverage if left uncontested, forcing CCP to react hastily. He abused his position to get what he personally wanted. That is not why the CSM was elected.
Yes, yes, Teg whatever. We have different opinions about what acceptable behavior is and unfortunately for Erotica CCP agrees with mine. Of course you can speculate that there are some other motives in play but it only remains speculation. Shokar's raving rumble in the bonus room put him in such a position that I can't take anything he said after seriously and I surely don't need him to tell me what cyber-bullying is. Was Teg's crusade motivated only by altruism? I don't know. But he did brought into the light something I am strongly against. If the bonus room would have stopped at first sign of Shokar loosing it I would be more inclined to say you are right but the level of of of .... whatever man. Just say "Dude you lost" walk away with the assets and stay with-in the meta don't be that jerk that begs for a ban.
Brusanan wrote: What if it was in a video game where stealing the cookies was not only acceptable within the rules of the game, but was a time-honored tradition, and something that CCP embraced and advertised for years?
The bonus round was nothing more than light and extremely civil trolling combined with some singing on TeamSpeak. This is something that has been celebrated by Eve players for years and years.
There is a RL sport in which two guys fight each-other with fists until one lies one the floor. And most people enjoy that. Now imagine if the victor would **** on the one lying on the floor. Some will still enjoy that, believe you me, but the most of us will just be appalled. This is way Erotica got banned, end of story! |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
266
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 09:25:00 -
[2372] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:There is a RL sport in which two guys fight each-other with fists until one lies one the floor. And most people enjoy that. Now imagine if the victor would **** (the p word not the s one, damn the censorship that makes it worse ) on the one lying on the floor. Some will still enjoy that, believe you me, but the most of us will just be appalled. This is way Erotica got banned, end of story! So if there was a sport where two players beat each other up and then the winner pissed on the loser, should CCP ban the winner's Eve Online account for participating in that sport which happened outside of the game?
Giving a bad, poorly reasoned analogy doesn't end any conversations. Nor should it.
Loko Crackhead wrote:[Was Teg's crusade motivated only by altruism? Have you even been paying attention? If altruism played any part in this at all, Ripard probably would have actually cared about how the "victim" in this story felt. But he didn't. As Sohkar explained, Ripard refused to even return his Evemails or contact him in any way. And as FunkyBacon said live, on air, Ripard specifically stated that he didn't care about Sohkar and was only using him to get to Erotica. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3061
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 09:36:00 -
[2373] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Yes, yes, Teg whatever. We have different opinions about what acceptable behavior is and unfortunately for Erotica CCP agrees with mine. Of course you can speculate that there are some other motives in play but it only remains speculation. Shokar's raving rumble in the bonus room put him in such a position that I can't take anything he said after seriously and I surely don't need him to tell me what cyber-bullying is. Was Teg's crusade motivated only by altruism? I don't know. But he did brought into the light something I am strongly against. If the bonus room would have stopped at first sign (or second or third) of Shokar losing it I would be more inclined to say you are right but the level of of of .... whatever man. Just say "Dude you lost" walk away with the assets and stay with-in the meta don't be that jerk that begs for a ban. I have to ask, have you actually listened to the recording? Like in full? I also have to ask, if this is CCPs decision, why did they not make that decision when the recording was made, published and complained about, or some time in the last year with the several hundred other recordings that were made, complained about and petitioned? And why, when other people petition actual bullying, where they are being insulted on teamspeak and told to kill themselves and such, is the standard CCP response "we don't deal with third party communications, report it to your local authorities"? There a lot of inconcistency here, which leaves people unable to determine where they stand.
If the method for determining when to stop is entirely dependent on how upset the target player is, at what point do you have to stop? If you kill a ship and the player starts getting irate in local, are you allowed to pod him? And if someone agrees to something, then later decides they are upset (so maybe like an eve-radio competition where they ask players to sing or pour hot bacon fat onto their chest) should bans be retroactively applied because the player changed their mind? At what point does the responsibility fall to the "victim" to stop? They are in full control of their participation in anything they do.
Loko Crackhead wrote:There is a RL sport in which two guys fight each-other with fists until one lies one the floor. And most people enjoy that. Now imagine if the victor would **** (the p word not the s one, damn the censorship that makes it worse ) on the one lying on the floor. Some will still enjoy that, believe you me, but the most of us will just be appalled. This is way Erotica got banned, end of story! What Erotica 1 did didn't even come close to some of the worst behaviour I've seen in this game. Even just from the responses to this very situation, the people saying that Erotica 1 should be killed IRL are far more despicable IMHO. At the end of the day if you look subjectively at what he did, he took a guys stuff, then asked him to sing and read stuff repeatedly, eluding to a chance of getting it back. That's all. He didn't **** on him, so that comparison falls down there. If I pissed on someone that I hadn't just beaten up, that behaviour would be unacceptable on it's own. Asking someone to sing or read some text is not unacceptable behaviour, even if you ask over and over again. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1019
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 10:41:00 -
[2374] - Quote
lol ------------ |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 11:13:00 -
[2375] - Quote
@ Brusanan
Please search and get acquainted with "Reductio ad absurdum" arguments. Erotica and Shokar had a battle of wits ,if you will, Shokar lost and Erotica continued his humiliation instead of picking the winning and call it a day. I don't care about Teg's motives, if he did this in good spirit or not is tangential for the matter at hand.
@Lucas
I don't have to listen circular arguments for hours on end to make a decision and to form an opinion. Judging strictly on the bonus room podcast is all I've done. That podcast is not about politics, that one is about a scam and how it was concluded. Also keep in mind that the entire bonus room podcast was recorded with the prize, EVE in-game assets, on the table. Those items were used as leverage by the scam-ers over the victim, it wasn't just your regular third party voip rubbish talking. Quote ".... at what point do you have to stop?" Are you looking for divine intervention here? I can only tell you the point I'd stop but can not demonstrate beyond all doubt that there is the stopping point. CCP (and they are as close as god for EVE as possible) showed you their limit, now is up to you to respect it or not.
Being a douche is one thing being douche and taking pride in it is another. The later has an attribute that annoys people to no end and despite your search for absolute truth and wisdom such is the society of man that it will deny you participation even in the absence of absolutes.
P.S. edit If by meta-game you people understand grieving others untill they lose all reasons I don't want that type of game-play in EVE. Just opinion don't go all crazy about it. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3152
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 11:17:00 -
[2376] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote: Being a douche is one thing being douche and taking pride in it is another. The later has an attribute that annoys people to no end
Then those people should find something a bit more important to let themselves get annoyed about, shouldnt they *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 11:29:00 -
[2377] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote: Being a douche is one thing being douche and taking pride in it is another. The later has an attribute that annoys people to no end
Then those people should find something a bit more important to let themselves get annoyed about, shouldnt they
Perhaps but then we should first define "important" and that's a head-ache on itself, don't you think? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3062
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 11:31:00 -
[2378] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:I don't have to listen circular arguments for hours on end to make a decision and to form an opinion. Judging strictly on the bonus room podcast is all I've done. That podcast is not about politics, that one is about a scam and how it was concluded. So in short, you haven't listened to all perspectives, you've listened to a single recording, without even listening to the victim in question and made a decision based on that limited view. Maybe you should expand your knowledge on the subject some.
Loko Crackhead wrote:Also keep in mind that the entire bonus room podcast was recorded with the prize, EVE in-game assets, on the table. Those items were used as leverage by the scam-ers over the victim, it wasn't just your regular third party voip rubbish talking. Would it change your perspective any if you realised that the bonus room has paid out to participants on some occasions? So it is in fact possible to win the bonus room. And does that mean singing for ransoms should be banned? What about if a corp member has to suffer abuse from a corp leader who could boot them leaving their items stranded in a station they can't access? That we are told is fine, and if it gets out of hand should be reported to the authorities. Why does CCP not step in there?
Loko Crackhead wrote:Quote ".... at what point do you have to stop?" Are you looking for divine intervention here? I can only tell you the point I'd stop but can not demonstrate beyond all doubt that there is the stopping point. CCP (and they are as close as god for EVE as possible) showed you their limit, now is up to you to respect it or not. No, Im asking a simple question. CCP have stated that it must stop when there are clear signs that the other party is upset right? So what if you kill a ship and the other player is clearly upset. Must you leave the pod? What if you bump a freighter for a while and the owner gets upset? When do you stop? Beyond that, what mediums are they covering. If someone abuses me on twitter following an in game encounter, is that bannable? or is it just voice comms? There's a lot of questions here that really need to be asked, because CCP have clearly stepped away from what they have always said before which is "if it doesn't happen in EVE it's not our problem to deal with". To put it purely down to "stop when the victim reacts negatively" is opening up a huge unknown area where the line will be drawn arbitrarily. Without clarification it destroys choices as people are force to err on the side of caution.
Loko Crackhead wrote:Being a douche is one thing being douche and taking pride in it is another. The later has an attribute that annoys people to no end and despite your search for absolute truth and wisdom such is the society of man that it will deny you participation even in the absence of absolutes. Different people get annoyed about a lot of different things, but that sounds remarkably like their problem. If someone having fun their way annoys you, then ignore it or do something about it. Plenty of people are annoyed at NPC corp hugging carebears and so they fight against them. They don't start up a hate campaign against one of the more well known carebears. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3153
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 11:34:00 -
[2379] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote: Being a douche is one thing being douche and taking pride in it is another. The later has an attribute that annoys people to no end
Then those people should find something a bit more important to let themselves get annoyed about, shouldnt they Perhaps but then we should first define "important" and that's a head-ache on itself, don't you think?
Possibly....
But when someone turns to having a rant, or a rave, or just swearing because Ive found their position undefendable, thats usually a good sign to me that they arent important anywhere but in their own mind, and the one thing we aren't short of in this game is arrogance.
Cant say Im at home to Mr Imneverwrong *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 12:17:00 -
[2380] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So in short, you haven't listened to all perspectives, you've listened to a single recording, without even listening to the victim in question and made a decision based on that limited view. Maybe you should expand your knowledge on the subject some.
Please don't do this. Don't act like anything Shokar said after has any relevance. The poor bastard put himself on the strings in the bonus room so it din't required much effort to play him like a violin.
Lucas Kell wrote:Would it change your perspective any if you realised that the bonus room has paid out to participants on some occasions? So it is in fact possible to win the bonus room. And does that mean singing for ransoms should be banned? What about if a corp member has to suffer abuse from a corp leader who could boot them leaving their items stranded in a station they can't access? That we are told is fine, and if it gets out of hand should be reported to the authorities. Why does CCP not step in there?
Win the bonus room! Hmmm yeah and the pigs nest in trees. And some stuff on the lines of " Look at that ugly **** over there isn't this one suddenly looking better?"
Lucas Kell wrote:No, Im asking a simple question. CCP have stated that it must stop when there are clear signs that the other party is upset right? So what if you kill a ship and the other player is clearly upset. Must you leave the pod? What if you bump a freighter for a while and the owner gets upset? When do you stop? Beyond that, what mediums are they covering. If someone abuses me on twitter following an in game encounter, is that bannable? or is it just voice comms? There's a lot of questions here that really need to be asked, because CCP have clearly stepped away from what they have always said before which is "if it doesn't happen in EVE it's not our problem to deal with". To put it purely down to "stop when the victim reacts negatively" is opening up a huge unknown area where the line will be drawn arbitrarily. Without clarification it destroys choices as people are force to err on the side of caution.
Use you common sense mate it will take you a long way. Most of us avoid bans using it and if we can I'm sure you can too.
Lucas Kell wrote:Different people get annoyed about a lot of different things, but that sounds remarkably like their problem. If someone having fun their way annoys you, then ignore it or do something about it. Plenty of people are annoyed at NPC corp hugging carebears and so they fight against them. They don't start up a hate campaign against one of the more well known carebears.
CCP has to balance politics on what annoys the most and w/o having any data I think I'm safe to say that behavior like the one displayed in that podcast by both parties is annoying to the majority of their costumers or potential costumers.
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Possibly....
But when someone turns to having a rant, or a rave, or just swearing because Ive found their position undefendable, thats usually a good sign to me that they arent important anywhere but in their own mind, and the one thing we aren't short of in this game is arrogance.
Cant say Im at home to Mr Imneverwrong
You can't be there that's my address (do I need to say kidding?). Is this a bit of ad-hominem? Please say it is cause i was afraid i'm failing to make a point absent any ad-hominem attacks. One would argue that everything is in our own mind and the funny thing is that based on our minds we have to create boundaries were there are none just to make our life and games possible. Yeah I agree that too much boundaries are a bad thing but total lack of them is bad as well. |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3160
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 12:25:00 -
[2381] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:You can't be there that's my address (do I need to say kidding?). Is this a bit of ad-hominem? Please say it is cause i was afraid i'm failing to make a point absent any ad-hominem attacks.
I wasnt talking about anyone in particular, as the majority of the forums are full of Mr Bighead (that's a Rocko's Modern Life reference btw).
Loko Crackhead wrote:One would argue that everything is in our own mind and the funny thing is that based on our minds we have to create boundaries were there are none just to make our life and games possible. Yeah I agree that too much boundaries are a bad thing but total lack of them is bad as well.
Everyone's boundaries are different.
In life and online (which is part of the life experience, though this game (EvE) is a Roleplaying Game, and an RPG allows you to create characters who can be drastically different from who you or I are in our lives away from pixelspace) everyone has a different idea or right and wrong, of boundaries they can and cannot cross.
I spend a lot of time in all places seeing how far I can stretch those boundaries, and whether thye are worth having or not. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
773
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 12:46:00 -
[2382] - Quote
The next time someone kills one of my expensive ships I'm going to report them for "Cyber-Bullying"!... I'm still trying to recover from the emotional trauma when those meanies destroyed my Nightmare! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3062
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 12:46:00 -
[2383] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Please don't do this. Don't act like anything Shokar said after has any relevance. The poor bastard put himself on the strings in the bonus room so it didn't required much effort to play him like a violin. Of course it's relevant. The whole point of this decisions is based around how upset the victim is. Of course his point of view is relevant, as is the point of view of Erotica 1. The recording is only 1 part of the situation. Even while that was going on, they were communicating via text based chat, so all you've got is a single point of view. Making a decision purely off that is pretty silly.
Loko Crackhead wrote:Win the bonus room! Hmmm yeah and the pigs nest in trees. And some stuff on the lines of " Look at that ugly **** over there isn't this one suddenly looking better?" Well there we go, you have no interest in facts, only in your own opinion based off of restricted knowledge. There have been winners... Oh wait, all Erotica 1 alts, right? Set up years ago in preparation for this right?
Loko Crackhead wrote:Use you common sense mate it will take you a long way. Most of us avoid bans using it and if we can I'm sure you can too. How? How do you use common sense to determine if some idiot on the internet you've never even met is going to freak out and start screaming? The way the rules are being stated, if you do anything once a player shows distress, you can get banned. You can't preempt the low tolerance bar of some people. This basically leads to a situation where all you have to do is shows signs of distress and everyone has to leave you alone.
And no, most of us avoid bans because CCP don't act on people getting upset over pixels. Up until this situation, they've stated clearly it's not their problem and even made their very own HTFU video. Now they've set a precedent for banning someone for something they've done outside of eve, and not even because the victim was upset, but because one CSM member didn't like it and started a witch hunt. I honestly can't understand how people can see that then use the phrase "common sense".
Loko Crackhead wrote:CCP has to balance politics on what annoys the most and w/o having any data I think I'm safe to say that behavior like the one displayed in that podcast by both parties is annoying to the majority of their costumers or potential costumers. Behaviour like what? Asking for songs? DJ FunkyBacon is applying for CSM, yet he has asked people to sing on teamspeak, so should he be banned? He even suggested a guy cover a nipple in hot bacon fat, which he did and ended up in hospital. That sounds pretty bad to me. The recording also shows several people who aren;t erotica 1 asking for songs and texts and running the bonus room. Why are they not banned?
Then on the other side, the recording does show sohkar throwing some pretty strong racial abuse about, not even just the odd word, but clearly calculated racial attacks. Why is he not banned?
And there we are with that "majority" thing again. Citation needed on that mate, since it seems like it's mainly the vocal minority and some victims of scams, and since their language in these posts has gone far further into the realms of abuse than Erotica 1 ever has, I'd say they aren't the best example of the community The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 12:49:00 -
[2384] - Quote
IIshira wrote:The next time someone kills one of my expensive ships I'm going to report them for "Cyber-Bullying"!... I'm still trying to recover from the emotional trauma when those meanies destroyed my Nightmare!
OK, if that's what you understand we're saying, go ahead, knock yourself up. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3161
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 12:53:00 -
[2385] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote: knock yourself up.
Im not sure this means what you think it means lol *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 13:08:00 -
[2386] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Of course it's relevant. The whole point of this decisions is based around how upset the victim is. Of course his point of view is relevant, as is the point of view of Erotica 1. The recording is only 1 part of the situation. Even while that was going on, they were communicating via text based chat, so all you've got is a single point of view. Making a decision purely off that is pretty silly.
You don't get to blow smoke in my eyes and then call me silly. Sorry!
Lucas Kell wrote:Well there we go, you have no interest in facts, only in your own opinion based off of restricted knowledge. There have been winners... Oh wait, all Erotica 1 alts, right? Set up years ago in preparation for this right?
Not the alts maybe some accomplices or some friends or ..... You really need to try harder.
Lucas Kell wrote:How? How do you use common sense to determine if some idiot on the internet you've never even met is going to freak out and start screaming? The way the rules are being stated, if you do anything once a player shows distress, you can get banned. You can't preempt the low tolerance bar of some people. This basically leads to a situation where all you have to do is shows signs of distress and everyone has to leave you alone.
And no, most of us avoid bans because CCP don't act on people getting upset over pixels. Up until this situation, they've stated clearly it's not their problem and even made their very own HTFU video. Now they've set a precedent for banning someone for something they've done outside of eve, and not even because the victim was upset, but because one CSM member didn't like it and started a witch hunt. I honestly can't understand how people can see that then use the phrase "common sense".
Sorry if you can't relate to how I use common sense. We might have a serious disconnect here.
Lucas Kell wrote:Behaviour like what? Asking for songs? DJ FunkyBacon is applying for CSM, yet he has asked people to sing on teamspeak, so should he be banned? He even suggested a guy cover a nipple in hot bacon fat, which he did and ended up in hospital. That sounds pretty bad to me. The recording also shows several people who aren;t erotica 1 asking for songs and texts and running the bonus room. Why are they not banned?
Then on the other side, the recording does show sohkar throwing some pretty strong racial abuse about, not even just the odd word, but clearly calculated racial attacks. Why is he not banned?
And there we are with that "majority" thing again. Citation needed on that mate, since it seems like it's mainly the vocal minority and some victims of scams, and since their language in these posts has gone far further into the realms of abuse than Erotica 1 ever has, I'd say they aren't the best example of the community
Why don't you people, that think Erotica did nothing wrong, start a poll about this? Test the masses, it will give you a more proper tool advocating for her pardon then arguing with oll' opinionated me. Oh and please stop presenting me **** so I get accustomed and tolerate **** easier.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3163
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 13:29:00 -
[2387] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote: Why don't you people, that think Erotica did nothing wrong....
Sorry, have to jump in here
I havent found any person matching that description
Most think they were both wrong
I think they have both been punished already, myself.
But even taken that its wrong,its been going on for a long time
And even taken that its wrong, I dont believe it should be stopped *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3067
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 13:39:00 -
[2388] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:You don't get to blow smoke in my eyes and then call me silly. Sorry! lol, you are refusing to accept something that is a fact, which you could easily verify but won't. That's not blowing smoke anywhere. It's not my fault that when making judgement calls you don't feel the need to look beyond a single source. Is now a bad time to tell you that not everything on Wikipedia is actually factual?
Loko Crackhead wrote:Not the alts maybe some accomplices or some friends or ..... You really need to try harder. Or... people who were genuinely entertaining and had fun with it. Your bias is noones problem but your own. You're probably someone that got scammed and had a sad and are now back with an alt seeking revenge. Scary.
Loko Crackhead wrote:Sorry if you can't relate to how I use common sense. We might have a serious disconnect here. Nice question avoidance. The reason you dodged it is because it can't be answered. It's unreasonable to expect everyone to be able to make a call over the internet on a strangers level of tolerance, then call that common sense. The community in EVE come from a range of different cultural backgrounds, even if you ignore language differences. Different people will have different things that get to them and different responses. From my point of view, asking someone to sing a bunch of songs could never be considered harassment. Maybe that's just a cultural difference, but I don't think getting upset over choices the victim made is the perpetrators problem. Now if Erotica 1 had followed the guy around hounding him, that would be different, but at any point he could have just told him to **** off and left.
Loko Crackhead wrote:Why don't you people, that think Erotica did nothing wrong, start a poll about this? Test the masses, it will give you a more proper tool advocating for her pardon then arguing with oll' opinionated me. Oh and please stop presenting me **** so I get accustomed and tolerate **** easier. Why? Because who would respond? The vocal minority. That's the whole reason they are considered vocal. Most people couldn't give two ***** about some random guy who asked another random guy to sing. The only reason there such a fuss this time is a CSM with a popular blog got his fanbase to grab pitchforks and go on hate campaign.
And most importantly here, what about the other bonus room runners, sohkar himself and DJ FunkyBacon. Ignoring Erotica 1 for a moment, why are those people NOT banned? Didn't they do things that are just as bad, if not worse in some cases? I dunno about you mate, but I do not tolerate racial attacks, ever, under any circumstances. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
774
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 13:45:00 -
[2389] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:He even suggested a guy cover a nipple in hot bacon fat, which he did and ended up in hospital. That sounds pretty bad to me.
Hot bacon fat on nipples?? Ban him now!
Now if it was hot wax |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:02:00 -
[2390] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote: Why don't you people, that think Erotica did nothing wrong....
Sorry, have to jump in here I havent found any person matching that description Most think they were both wrong I think they have both been punished already, myself. But even taken that its wrong,its been going on for a long time And even taken that its wrong, I dont believe it should be stopped
You lost me, I swear. Wrong but shouldn't be stopped?Or maybe I lost you. I have no problem with in-game scamming I think it should have in game risks but I don't want this facet of EVE eradicated. I have a problem with guys that can't use common sense to keep it in game that's all. Take note that usually the villains are the active party and the victims are the passive/reactive party. It's up to the active party to set the boundaries and if they set them wrong they'll get the most heat.
I never scammed and was scammed only once with a contract back in the days when I was pulling all-nighters in EVE. I hold no grudge against that guy, not so ever.
|
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3164
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:07:00 -
[2391] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote: Wrong but shouldn't be stopped?
Yes.
Loko Crackhead wrote: I have no problem with in-game scamming I think it should have in game risks but I don't want this facet of EVE eradicated. I have a problem with guys that can't use common sense to keep it in game that's all. It was ingame as much as the comms of a fleet action are ingame. Or Diplo is ingame.
Loko Crackhead wrote:Take note that usually the villains are the active party and the victims are the passive/reactive party. It's up to the active party to set the boundaries and if they set them wrong they'll get the most heat.
Villian and victim are subjective terms.
Ive said it many times already; Both were in the wrong
Both have been punished
I dont know why this subject is still open to debate or interperetation, but for what its worth, a person can find something wrong, but learn to find tolerance. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:07:00 -
[2392] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Or... people who were genuinely entertaining and had fun with it. Your bias is noones problem but your own. You're probably someone that got scammed and had a sad and are now back with an alt seeking revenge. Scary.
Damn you figured me out. I guess you win at internetz. I already answered all your points but I can't repeat myself every time you use different words to say the same thing.
Enjoy EVE!
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3069
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:14:00 -
[2393] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Damn you figured me out. I guess you win at internetz. I already answered all your points but I can't repeat myself every time you use different words to say the same thing. Enjoy EVE! lol, you didn't answer ****. You repeated your opinion and totally ignored the questions. For example: Should DJ FunkyBacon be banned for using out of game comms to get people to sing and do other silly things (such as the bacon fat incident which resulted in a hospital trip for the victim)?
I'm not asking you trick questions, I legitimately can't understand how you are making your distinctions. You seem to just arbitrarily be picking Erotica 1 out as the only person ever to have put themselves into a situation where they take an in-game action out of game. You've already stated that the only thing you've listened to is one recording and that you made your mind up entirely from that, and you have the nerve to speak about common sense? It's clear you have a stick up your ass about something, and since Erotica 1 is a scammer and you are hiding out on an alt, you being a scam victim the most likely reason. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
842
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:19:00 -
[2394] - Quote
This is pretty damning...
"Sohkar rejects the claims that he was tortured. He got angry. He points out that after Ripard's blog post, he tried to reach out and talk to Ripard and sent him an eve-mail. Ripard has still not responded to him after several days. It's thought at this point that Ripard Teg doesn't care about the victim at all, and is simply trying to push his anti scamming agenda with inflamatory language and rhetoric, and trying to put out the worst examples he can with no regard to how this will affect even the victims involved."
Are we supposed to believe (in addition to all the other part-time psychologists claims about Sohkar being 'unable to disengage' and 'captive' to Erotica 1's charms), that Sohkar is now a victim of Stokholm Syndrome?
Occam's Razor tells us something different...
There was no torture. Ripard Teg spawned a witch hunt against a 'mean' player. CCP banned him in an excessive move to protect their brand, and in so doing have laid waste to any marketing claims of 'be the villain', 'HTFU' and 'sandbox' in many veterans eyes.
The sandbox actually appears now to have CCP snipers on the walls, and players with cachet', an axe to grind and a soapbox are now revealed as being able to call in targeted strikes from them against other players. Ripard Teg lazed the target, CCP pulled the trigger (while refusing to acknowledge a shot was even fired).
tldr; CCP has every right to ban who they want ultimately, but don't then expect us not to laugh our asses off the next time Guard puts together a 'HTFU' video...
F Would you like to know more? |
Salvos Rhoska
1019
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:36:00 -
[2395] - Quote
If you don't like it, you can leave. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3170
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:39:00 -
[2396] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:If you don't like it, you can leave.
If you love it, get back in the pit :) *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1420
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:51:00 -
[2397] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:If you don't like it, you can leave. I'm psychologically unable to disengage. Too much sunk cost and emotional pressure and other, science-sounding things.
While having no practical impact, i *was* curious as to what a poll would show on this issue.
Results so far:
RE: \\\"Bonus Room,\\\" who earned a ban? Total votes: 73 Erotica 1 (out of game harassment) (33 votes, 45%) sohkar (racial slurs/death threats) (3 votes, 4%) Erotica 1 and Ripard Teg (out of game harassment) (5 votes, 7%) None of them (non-EVE internet is not CCP\'s biz) (6 votes, 8%) None of them (Ripard/Erotica were just playing the meta and sohkar apologized) (16 votes, 22%) All three of them (10 votes, 14%) "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart." -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:51:00 -
[2398] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:Damn you figured me out. I guess you win at internetz. I already answered all your points but I can't repeat myself every time you use different words to say the same thing. Enjoy EVE! lol, you didn't answer ****. You repeated your opinion and totally ignored the questions. For example: Should DJ FunkyBacon be banned for using out of game comms to get people to sing and do other silly things (such as the bacon fat incident which resulted in a hospital trip for the victim)? I'm not asking you trick questions, I legitimately can't understand how you are making your distinctions. You seem to just arbitrarily be picking Erotica 1 out as the only person ever to have put themselves into a situation where they take an in-game action out of game. You've already stated that the only thing you've listened to is one recording and that you made your mind up entirely from that, and you have the nerve to speak about common sense? It's clear you have a stick up your ass about something, and since Erotica 1 is a scammer and you are hiding out on an alt, you being a scam victim the most likely reason.
Rigged, malformed questions I don't answer. Why aren't all the thieves in jail? Why don't all people believe in Iehova? Why people don't recognize false patterns from true ones? I listened to the one piece of evidence that wasn't politicized. The raw piece of crap that some people do in the name of fun and trust me, if you are honest, that's the only one that matters in judging the situation presented. I'm not a kid so you, Erotica or that fool Shokar tell me what to believe. But hey, keep up the fight don't let one failure to dishearten you .
How do you know I'm on an alt? You took interest in that. Why? I didn't check you in game! Does this answer your question why I'm using an alt? If not, seek help, as I won't spell it out for you. Don't try your lame mind tricks dude, it won't work .
|
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 14:56:00 -
[2399] - Quote
This thread continues to deliver.
Just remember folks if you make it to 200 pages before the end of the elections CCP WILL restore the account of Erotica 1, and give him a seat on the CSM |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3071
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 15:36:00 -
[2400] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Rigged, malformed questions I don't answer. Why aren't all the thieves in jail? Why don't all people believe in Iehova? Why people don't recognize false patterns from true ones? Nothing rigged at all. You seem to be fine with the idea that cCP selected a single individual for punishment while others have received none, and while victims who previously have reported far worse out of game harassment have been told explicitly that CCP do nto deal with third part comms. At all. Ever.
Loko Crackhead wrote:I listened to the one piece of evidence that wasn't politicized. The raw piece of crap that some people do in the name of fun and trust me, if you are honest, that's the only one that matters in judging the situation presented. I'm not a kid so you, Erotica or that fool Shokar tell me what to believe. But hey, keep up the fight don't let one failure to dishearten you . No, that's not the only piece of evidence that matters. Alongside that, chat logs from the text chats that were happening at the same time matter too. And the suggestion that the testimonies of the victim and the perpetrator is not relevant is ludicrous. If you aren't a kid, then surely you must understand the reason that all of the facts need to be looked at in full, not just a selective few. From the recording only, all you hear is some guys talking about some contracts, asking for songs and text reading, then another guy and his wife flying off the handle and throwing out racial abuse and threats. Then again, since the reason people listened to it anyway is that it was listed on an incredibly biased blog post from Ripard Teg tells me you've at least read that too.
Loko Crackhead wrote:How do you know I'm on an alt? You took interest in that. Why? I didn't check you in game! Does this answer your question why I'm using an alt? If not, seek help, as I won't spell it out for you. Don't try your lame mind tricks dude, it won't work . I, unlike you, like to source s much information as I can about a subject, including the people discussing it. In looking through your older posts, I came across you stating this was an alt. I tend to find people who post from alts lack conviction, and will more often than not argue for the sake of arguing, since it has no repercussions. People that believe what they are saying will stand behind their words, not hide behind anonymity. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3071
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 15:43:00 -
[2401] - Quote
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:This thread continues to deliver.
Just remember folks if you make it to 200 pages before the end of the elections CCP WILL restore the account of Erotica 1, and give him a seat on the CSM It only took 400 pages and a corrupt CSM member with a hate campaign to ban him, so that's not too big a stretch to believe. Although I'm not convinced CCP would put anyone that was so pro-sandbox on the CSM. More likely they're going to put more P2W types on there. After last years financial report and the race to get more income sources in this year, it wouldn't be a surprise next step. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 16:25:00 -
[2402] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Nothing rigged at all. You seem to be fine with the idea that cCP selected a single individual for punishment while others have received none, and while victims who previously have reported far worse out of game harassment have been told explicitly that CCP do nto deal with third part comms. At all. Ever.
I don't judge people on what others did or didn't do. Your questions about other people breaking your boundaries should be address to CCP as I can't answer them and I'm not willing to use them as precedents when judging this case. If what you are saying is right then CCP was light on the ban hammer.
Lucas Kell wrote:No, that's not the only piece of evidence that matters. Alongside that, chat logs from the text chats that were happening at the same time matter too. And the suggestion that the testimonies of the victim and the perpetrator is not relevant is ludicrous. If you aren't a kid, then surely you must understand the reason that all of the facts need to be looked at in full, not just a selective few. From the recording only, all you hear is some guys talking about some contracts, asking for songs and text reading, then another guy and his wife flying off the handle and throwing out racial abuse and threats. Then again, since the reason people listened to it anyway is that it was listed on an incredibly biased blog post from Ripard Teg tells me you've at least read that too.
Yes it is. Everything else it's just down playing the event in order to escape consequences from both sides. Why waste time with dishonest evidence? Keep saying Ripard Teg name hoping his voice will magically appear on the bonus room podcast. I've read Teg's blog up to the point he started real life assumptions base on a in-game event, then I realized that I don't need his opinion on the matter when I can form one myself. I can't stress this enough, I don't care about politics and I don't care about Erotica, one way or the other. From my part they can lift the ban as long as they come across as merciful not as endorsing the behavior.
Lucas Kell wrote:I, unlike you, like to source s much information as I can about a subject, including the people discussing it. In looking through your older posts, I came across you stating this was an alt. I tend to find people who post from alts lack conviction, and will more often than not argue for the sake of arguing, since it has no repercussions. People that believe what they are saying will stand behind their words, not hide behind anonymity.
You, unlike me, have too much time at hand and you are waisting it smelling a pile of bull-crap and explaining its flavors to anyone listening. Sorry if that's too graphic . I'm not going to disclosure my identity to people that will go at those lengths to ruin other people internet space ships fun. It would be asking for trouble, call me chicken if it will make you feel better. Thank you for staying civil. Over and out.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3188
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 16:43:00 -
[2403] - Quote
Ive noticed that a goodly number of folk (who have varying opinions Id like to add) who, when presented with a "put up or shut up" confrontation regarding the evidence to support their position have resorted to swearing and then leave.
This is the worst debating club Ive been in this school year *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
779
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 16:49:00 -
[2404] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:I'm not going to disclosure my identity to people that will go at those lengths to ruin other people internet space ships fun. It would be asking for trouble, call me chicken if it will make you feel better. He might drag you into the bonus round... I hear it's like a roach motel. You check in but don't check out.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3079
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 16:50:00 -
[2405] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:I don't judge people on what others did or didn't do. Your questions about other people breaking your boundaries should be address to CCP as I can't answer them and I'm not willing to use them as precedents when judging this case. If what you are saying is right then CCP was light on the ban hammer. So to be clear, you don;t make a judgement in absence of complete evidence, though you are happy to judge Erotica 1 based off of a single piece of same. Good to know. Let's ask this instead. Do you think it is OK (and by OK I don't mean permitted, they are free to do what they do, i mean OK as in "the right thing to do") for CCP to selectively enforce their rules having previously stated to other victims of far worse out of game harassment that they do not deal with out of game issues?
Loko Crackhead wrote:Yes it is. Everything else it's just down playing the event in order to escape consequences from both sides. Why waste time with dishonest evidence? Keep saying Ripard Teg name hoping his voice will magically appear on the bonus room podcast. I've read Teg's blog up to the point he started real life assumptions base on a in-game event, then I realized that I don't need his opinion on the matter when I can form one myself. I can't stress this enough, I don't care about politics and I don't care about Erotica, one way or the other. From my part they can lift the ban as long as they come across as merciful not as endorsing the behavior. It's not dishonest evidence, it's complete evidence. If you take only a single piece of evidence, you are not objectively analysing the situation. And again I ask WHAT behaviour? What is it about asking someone to sing and read that you find distasteful? Note, he was not forced into anything, he chose to do that, and if you'd bother to read the victims point of view you would know that he has stated that more than once.
I mean ask yourself this. Why do you care if people ask other people to sing songs if you don't give a flying **** about the opinion of the victim?
Loko Crackhead wrote:You, unlike me, have too much time at hand and you are waisting it smelling a pile of bull-crap and explaining its flavors to anyone listening. Sorry if that's too graphic . I'm not going to disclosure my identity to people that will go at those lengths to ruin other people internet space ships fun. It would be asking for trouble, call me chicken if it will make you feel better. Thank you for staying civil. Over and out. It really doesn't take me much time to read and respond to these things and I tend to listen to the podcasts while I work. I find listening to all of the people involved, then weighing up the evidence, tends to be the best way of making objective rational judgements. I don't think that it was particularly nice what Erotica 1 and co did, but I certainly don;t see how it's even close to as bad as some other behaviours I've seen and with CCPs explicitly ruling that third party comms are not in their jurisdiction, this action seems out of line. It seems more so when you consider how many people were involved in this incident and see only one ban dished out.
The only difference between this and the same issue last month, or the other recording towards the end of last year or sever others other the past year is this is the only one where a CSM member personally attacked Erotica 1. That leads me to believe that if a person with enough publicity and standing pushes an agenda CCP will give in, which saddens me some.
And to be clear, you are not a chicken for wanting your anonymity, I get your reasoning, but if you felt strongly on a matter, possibly repercussions shouldn't matter to you and should in fact strengthen your resolve. It's too easy for someone with anonymity to categorically state their case as they can at any point simply step away from that opinion and their main can state the opposite or sit on the fence, so i tend to take their opinions with a pinch of salt. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
779
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 16:54:00 -
[2406] - Quote
The best way to fix this is when election time comes up use your vote to express your opinion on how the game should be. If you feel the attack on E1 by this CSM was deserved reelect him. If not give him the boot! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3188
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 16:58:00 -
[2407] - Quote
IIshira wrote:The best way to fix this is when election time comes up use your vote to express your opinion on how the game should be. If you feel the attack on E1 by this CSM was deserved reelect him. If not give him the boot!
Hes stated hes not running this year *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
779
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:01:00 -
[2408] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:IIshira wrote:The best way to fix this is when election time comes up use your vote to express your opinion on how the game should be. If you feel the attack on E1 by this CSM was deserved reelect him. If not give him the boot! Hes stated hes not running this year I wonder why lol |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3079
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:10:00 -
[2409] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:IIshira wrote:The best way to fix this is when election time comes up use your vote to express your opinion on how the game should be. If you feel the attack on E1 by this CSM was deserved reelect him. If not give him the boot! Hes stated hes not running this year I wonder why lol I'm sure if he ran again CCP would have something to say about it. Since his method of bringing E1 to their attention was "Make the hate campaign as public as possible so CCP has no choice but to react" I doubt very much they would be happy with him continuing. CSM members are supposed to be responsible and set an example. Whether you agree with their in game policies or not, their out of game behaviour should be professional. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Ecrir Twy'Lar
Federation Navy 3rd Fleet
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:13:00 -
[2410] - Quote
Here's my opinion. Scam, gank, whatever all you want within the game. Everyone knows that EVE allows such things. If you fall for it, chalk it off as a learning experience and move on. If you can't deal with it, find another game. I hear Star Citizen is going to be pretty popular.
However... When you take someone out of game into online voice chat and you F!@# with their head and involve their family... Then that's crossing the line. Obviously CCP agrees. You can say that the victim was naive or whatever. But the real problem is that this guy wasn't just scamming, he was enjoying causing another person mental anguish outside of the game and if you think that is ok, you are scum.
I keep hearing "The death of the Sandbox!" That's a load of crap. You can still do everything you could do before within the game. Scammers are just butt hurt over the fact that someone got their hands slapped. In the mean time I'll check into this thread once in a while and enjoy the tears. |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3196
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:14:00 -
[2411] - Quote
Ecrir Twy'Lar wrote: if you think that is ok, you are scum
I and all PsyOps operatives are scum.
We get it.
Move along. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
665
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:17:00 -
[2412] - Quote
I just thought of something funny:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=335085
If everything you do has to have profit or its harassment, is popping pods in high sec harassment (unless they have a bounty, and if they do just add a bounty to them lol)
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Both have been punished
Sohkar got punished?
Link? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
665
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:20:00 -
[2413] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:If you don't like it, you can leave.
So could have Sokhar
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3204
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:45:00 -
[2414] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:I just thought of something funny: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=335085If everything you do has to have profit or its harassment, is popping pods in high sec harassment (unless they have a bounty, and if they do just add a bounty to them lol) Ramona McCandless wrote:
Both have been punished
Sohkar got punished? Link?
Didnt he lose all his isk and items bar 6m he had stashed in his shoe?
Thats one way the moronic get punished.
He was also ejected from his corp for a while too *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:09:00 -
[2415] - Quote
I'm in the camp that Sohkar did nothing wrong as well. He was on a private TeamSpeak server, so he was allowed to be as racist as he wanted. The only one who had any right to punish him was the owner of the TS server (who would have immediately kicked him if he was around at the time). Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3212
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:17:00 -
[2416] - Quote
Brusanan wrote: he was allowed to be as racist as he wanted
Im just going to let this stand for what it is. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
275
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:20:00 -
[2417] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Brusanan wrote: he was allowed to be as racist as he wanted Im just going to let this stand for what it is. Welcome to free speech. I know it's a foreign concept for people who live in many European countries where they ban any kind of speech that is mildly offensive to the easily offended. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3212
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:22:00 -
[2418] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Brusanan wrote: he was allowed to be as racist as he wanted Im just going to let this stand for what it is. Welcome to free speech. I know it's a foreign concept for people who live in many European countries where they ban any kind of speech that is mildly offensive to the easily offended.
You dont know what free speech actually means if you feel that racism is part of it *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
275
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:33:00 -
[2419] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Brusanan wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Brusanan wrote: he was allowed to be as racist as he wanted Im just going to let this stand for what it is. Welcome to free speech. I know it's a foreign concept for people who live in many European countries where they ban any kind of speech that is mildly offensive to the easily offended. You dont know what free speech actually means if you feel that racism is part of it Racism IS part of free speech. That is literally undeniable. You don't have a right to not be offended by the things I say, and I don't have a right to not be offended by the things you say. Here in the US we have the freedom to say anything as long as it isn't advocating violence (or intentionally going to get someone hurt), and you have the freedom to walk away if you don't like it.
And obviously I am talking about the US, because in most European countries you don't actually have a freedom of speech. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3213
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:39:00 -
[2420] - Quote
Brusanan wrote: Racism IS part of free speech. That is literally undeniable. You don't have a right to not be offended by the things I say, and I don't have a right to not be offended by the things you say. Here in the US we have the freedom to say anything as long as it isn't advocating violence (or intentionally going to get someone hurt), and you have the freedom to walk away if you don't like it.
And obviously I am talking about the US, because in most European countries you don't actually have a freedom of speech.
So... the US doesnt have Hate Crime legislation huh?
Pull the other one mate, its got bells on *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
|
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
277
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:42:00 -
[2421] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Brusanan wrote: Racism IS part of free speech. That is literally undeniable. You don't have a right to not be offended by the things I say, and I don't have a right to not be offended by the things you say. Here in the US we have the freedom to say anything as long as it isn't advocating violence (or intentionally going to get someone hurt), and you have the freedom to walk away if you don't like it.
And obviously I am talking about the US, because in most European countries you don't actually have a freedom of speech.
So... the US doesnt have Hate Crime legislation huh? Pull the other one mate, its got bells on Hate Crime laws in the US only apply to violence and actual crimes. It does not apply to hate speech. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
670
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:43:00 -
[2422] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:So... the US doesnt have Hate Crime legislation huh? Appealing to the law is really poor argumentation. Signature removed - CCP Falcon |
Anslo
Scope Works
4794
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:44:00 -
[2423] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Brusanan wrote: Racism IS part of free speech. That is literally undeniable. You don't have a right to not be offended by the things I say, and I don't have a right to not be offended by the things you say. Here in the US we have the freedom to say anything as long as it isn't advocating violence (or intentionally going to get someone hurt), and you have the freedom to walk away if you don't like it.
And obviously I am talking about the US, because in most European countries you don't actually have a freedom of speech.
So... the US doesnt have Hate Crime legislation huh? Pull the other one mate, its got bells on It does (work place discrimination, hate related violence etc), but that doesn't outlaw things like klan rallies and crap. They're allowed to do that, just like anyone else wanting to voice an opinion.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3091
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:44:00 -
[2424] - Quote
Ecrir Twy'Lar wrote:Here's my opinion. Scam, gank, whatever all you want within the game. Everyone knows that EVE allows such things. If you fall for it, chalk it off as a learning experience and move on. If you can't deal with it, find another game. I hear Star Citizen is going to be pretty popular.
However... When you take someone out of game into online voice chat and you F!@# with their head and involve their family... Then that's crossing the line. Obviously CCP agrees. You can say that the victim was naive or whatever. But the real problem is that this guy wasn't just scamming, he was enjoying causing another person mental anguish outside of the game and if you think that is ok, you are scum.
I keep hearing "The death of the Sandbox!" That's a load of crap. You can still do everything you could do before within the game. Scammers are just butt hurt over the fact that someone got their hands slapped. In the mean time I'll check into this thread once in a while and enjoy the tears. So following that, all singing ransoms, and eve-radio singing competitions and such should be banned right? All of those "F!@# with" people as much as E1 did, the reaction just depends on the person.
Also, what abotu non-voice chat? Can I F!@# with your head on twitter for example?
Ramona McCandless wrote:Didnt he lose all his isk and items bar 6m he had stashed in his shoe?
Thats one way the moronic get punished.
He was also ejected from his corp for a while too Not only did he make back plenty in the month that's passed, he's been donated overall more than he lost from members of the community. The corp kicking him did so just to keep away war decs. He's still openly allowed in that corp as soon as he feels it's safe for him to come back without getting instantly wardecced. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3213
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:45:00 -
[2425] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:So... the US doesnt have Hate Crime legislation huh? Appealing to the law is really poor argumentation.
So free speech in the US has no connection to the law either?
Cool cool. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3228
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:46:00 -
[2426] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Not only did he make back plenty in the month that's passed, he's been donated overall more than he lost from members of the community. The corp kicking him did so just to keep away war decs. He's still openly allowed in that corp as soon as he feels it's safe for him to come back without getting instantly wardecced.
Hes back in the corp, and the corp never left the alliance and its back in its coalition.
What is it that you are saying?
That he shouldnt have lost his assests in a scam? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3214
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:47:00 -
[2427] - Quote
Anslo wrote:
It does (work place discrimination, hate related violence etc), but that doesn't outlaw things like klan rallies and crap. They're allowed to do that, just like anyone else wanting to voice an opinion.
How does violence became hate-related if racism is something that is not referenced in the law? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Anslo
Scope Works
4794
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:49:00 -
[2428] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:
It does (work place discrimination, hate related violence etc), but that doesn't outlaw things like klan rallies and crap. They're allowed to do that, just like anyone else wanting to voice an opinion.
How does violence became hate-related if racism is something that is not referenced in the law? see lynchings, neo **** gang attacks, hate speech heard or written at a crime scene as a suspect MO, etc.
|
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
670
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:52:00 -
[2429] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:So free speech in the US has no connection to the law either?
Cool cool. Not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse, but the concept of free speech predates the notion of God's Empire on Earth, the Magnificent United States of America.
It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon,-ádeep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3214
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:52:00 -
[2430] - Quote
Anslo wrote:hate speech heard or written at a crime scene as a suspect MO, etc.
So yes, I cant see how that isnt agreeing with my point.
Racism (for example) turns a regular assault into a hate crime
Therefore, spoken or written racism is not protected under freedom of speech.
That was my point. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
|
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
277
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:52:00 -
[2431] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:
It does (work place discrimination, hate related violence etc), but that doesn't outlaw things like klan rallies and crap. They're allowed to do that, just like anyone else wanting to voice an opinion.
How does violence became hate-related if racism is something that is not referenced in the law? Racist SPEECH isn't against the law, because we have a freedom of speech. When racism is the motivation for something that actually IS against the law, it is treated differently. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Anslo
Scope Works
4794
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:54:00 -
[2432] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:hate speech heard or written at a crime scene as a suspect MO, etc. So yes, I cant see how that isnt agreeing with my point. Racism (for example) turns a regular assault into a hate crime Therefore, spoken or written racism is not protected under freedom of speech. That was my point. You are twisting words. Racist speech is protected under freedom of speech, as exampled numerous times, as long as it does not link to criminal activity. The act of being racist is protected by law...I don't like it, but it is.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3214
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:55:00 -
[2433] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:So free speech in the US has no connection to the law either?
Cool cool. Not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse, but the concept of free speech predates the notion of God's Empire on Earth, the Magnificent United States of America.
What?
You said
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote: Appealing to the law is really poor argumentation.
When I said, in response to a comment by someone that racism was protected by freedom of speech that the law doesnt see it that way.
I dont know how what you said has a bearing on that *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3216
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:56:00 -
[2434] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:hate speech heard or written at a crime scene as a suspect MO, etc. So yes, I cant see how that isnt agreeing with my point. Racism (for example) turns a regular assault into a hate crime Therefore, spoken or written racism is not protected under freedom of speech. That was my point. You are twisting words. Racist speech is protected under freedom of speech, as exampled numerous times, as long as it does not link to criminal activity. The act of being racist is protected by law...I don't like it, but it is.
No, it isnt twisting anything. It really isnt. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:57:00 -
[2435] - Quote
Ramona made me do it.
@Lucas Kell
No we are not clear. I was saying that I won't use previous unrelated events to judge the situation at hand. I might use it when considering the punishment ( already said that straight ban was a bit harsh but that's the problem with the forums- fragmentation). If CCP failed to act on this type of situation before, is on them not on me and I do agree (concede if you will) that their actions in this case seem to have bad publicity as a reason amongst other reasons.
I won't listen to lame excuses and consider them versions of the truth. Maybe I'm just stupid that way but it seems like a bad case of time waisting. And I will be gracious enough not to go into "What behavior?" remark. Singing and reading is all fine and dandy until somebody uses the "n" word or starts making RL threats. At that point the sane person stops the charade.
Yes other people were involved and I'm not sure they didn't get any repercussion but hey if they didn't, they should consider themselves lucky. |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
277
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:57:00 -
[2436] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:hate speech heard or written at a crime scene as a suspect MO, etc. So yes, I cant see how that isnt agreeing with my point. Racism (for example) turns a regular assault into a hate crime Therefore, spoken or written racism is not protected under freedom of speech. That was my point. Except it is. I can walk around in the US and say the N-word all I want in public. I can write it in blogs as much as I want. I can form an organization and protest at funerals screaming that "GOD HATES ***S!" all I want, and that will all be freedom of speech, protected under the Bill of Rights.
However, how my fellow citizens will treat me if I do all of those things is a different matter. You see, it isn't the job of the government to keep hate speech under control, it's the job of society at whole to keep that stuff in check. If you are a politician and you say something that is offensive to certain groups, it is career suicide. If you are the owner of a restaurant chain and you release a statement that is offensive towards certain groups, there will be large numbers of people protesting and boycotting your brand.
That is free speech. You have the freedom to say "I HATE N-WORDS!" and I have the freedom to tell you to **** off. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3216
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:58:00 -
[2437] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Ramona made me do it.
@Lucas Kell
No we are not clear. I was saying that I won't use previous unrelated events to judge the situation at hand. I might use it when considering the punishment ( already said that straight ban was a bit harsh but that's the problem with the forums- fragmentation). If CCP failed to act on this type of situation before, is on them not on me and I do agree (concede if you will) that their actions in this case seem to have bad publicity as a reason amongst other reasons.
I won't listen to lame excuses and consider them versions of the truth. Maybe I'm just stupid that way but it seems like a bad case of time waisting. And I will be gracious enough not to go into "What behavior?" remark. Singing and reading is all fine and dandy until somebody uses the "n" word or starts making RL threats. At that point the sane person stops the charade.
Yes other people were involved and I'm not sure they didn't get any repercussion but hey if they didn't, they should consider themselves lucky.
This *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Anslo
Scope Works
4794
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:58:00 -
[2438] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:hate speech heard or written at a crime scene as a suspect MO, etc. So yes, I cant see how that isnt agreeing with my point. Racism (for example) turns a regular assault into a hate crime Therefore, spoken or written racism is not protected under freedom of speech. That was my point. You are twisting words. Racist speech is protected under freedom of speech, as exampled numerous times, as long as it does not link to criminal activity. The act of being racist is protected by law...I don't like it, but it is. No, it isnt twisting anything. It really isnt. Cool story.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3216
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:59:00 -
[2439] - Quote
Brusanan wrote: Except it is. I can walk around in the US and say the N-word all I want in public. I can write it in blogs as much as I want. I can form an organization and protest at funerals screaming that "GOD HATES ***S!" all I want, and that will all be freedom of speech, protected under the Bill of Rights.
However, how my fellow citizens will treat me if I do all of those things is a different matter. You see, it isn't the job of the government to keep hate speech under control, it's the job of society at whole to keep that stuff in check. If you are a politician and you say something that is offensive to certain groups, it is career suicide. If you are the owner of a restaurant chain and you release a statement that is offensive towards certain groups, there will be large numbers of people protesting and boycotting your brand.
That is free speech. You have the freedom to say "I HATE N-WORDS!" and I have the freedom to tell you to **** off.
So the US has no law against incitement to cause violence?
And the US Constitution applies to the internet now?
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3216
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:00:00 -
[2440] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:hate speech heard or written at a crime scene as a suspect MO, etc. So yes, I cant see how that isnt agreeing with my point. Racism (for example) turns a regular assault into a hate crime Therefore, spoken or written racism is not protected under freedom of speech. That was my point. You are twisting words. Racist speech is protected under freedom of speech, as exampled numerous times, as long as it does not link to criminal activity. The act of being racist is protected by law...I don't like it, but it is. No, it isnt twisting anything. It really isnt. Cool story.
You keep saying things, then when I explain how I disagree, you get snotty and short.
Second time in the same thread.
Now, I accept your apology, and no hard feelings.
Move along, nothing to see here. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
|
Anslo
Scope Works
4794
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:03:00 -
[2441] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Now, I accept your apology, and no hard feelings.
Move along, nothing to see here.
Apology for what?
|
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
277
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:04:00 -
[2442] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Brusanan wrote: Except it is. I can walk around in the US and say the N-word all I want in public. I can write it in blogs as much as I want. I can form an organization and protest at funerals screaming that "GOD HATES ***S!" all I want, and that will all be freedom of speech, protected under the Bill of Rights.
However, how my fellow citizens will treat me if I do all of those things is a different matter. You see, it isn't the job of the government to keep hate speech under control, it's the job of society at whole to keep that stuff in check. If you are a politician and you say something that is offensive to certain groups, it is career suicide. If you are the owner of a restaurant chain and you release a statement that is offensive towards certain groups, there will be large numbers of people protesting and boycotting your brand.
That is free speech. You have the freedom to say "I HATE N-WORDS!" and I have the freedom to tell you to **** off.
So the US has no law against incitement to cause violence? And the US Constitution applies to the internet now? Yes, and incitement to cause violence is where free speech stops, which I have already stated, if you actually bothered reading instead of just continuing to argue about a subject you clearly know nothing about.
However, there is a difference between saying "GOD HATES ***S" and saying "GOD WANTS YOU TO KILL ALL ***S RIGHT NOW". One is free speech protected by the Bill of Rights, and the other is against the law.
Also, hate speech is allowed on the internet, and if your country doesn't like it they can block your access to the website. And it's certainly not CCP's place to enforce hate speech laws on TeamSpeak's servers. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3216
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:09:00 -
[2443] - Quote
Brusanan wrote: So the US has no law against incitement to cause violence?
And the US Constitution applies to the internet now?
Yes, and incitement to cause violence is where free speech stops, which I have already stated, if you actually bothered reading instead of just continuing to argue about a subject you clearly know nothing about.[/quote]
I believe I stated it first, actually
Saying you believe you know more than me, well you must be a big man where you come from.
Brusanan wrote:However, there is a difference between saying "GOD HATES ***S" and saying "GOD WANTS YOU TO KILL ALL ***S RIGHT NOW". One is free speech protected by the Bill of Rights, and the other is against the law.
Also, hate speech is allowed on the internet, and if your country doesn't like it they can block your access to the website. And it's certainly not CCP's place to enforce hate speech laws on TeamSpeak's servers.
Sigh. Not really much point going on. Should have seen that when you made your first statement supporting his opinion.
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Anslo
Scope Works
4794
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:23:00 -
[2444] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:EDIT
I withdraw my comments, and I accept responsibility for my actions up till now.
I apologise for fighting a pointless battle, and I accept that I do not know it all.
I yield to the superior arguments put forward, and refute previous statements I have made with little or no logical backing. Well. Didn't see that coming.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3216
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:25:00 -
[2445] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:EDIT
I withdraw my comments, and I accept responsibility for my actions up till now.
I apologise for fighting a pointless battle, and I accept that I do not know it all.
I yield to the superior arguments put forward, and refute previous statements I have made with little or no logical backing. Well. Didn't see that coming.
I offer you a frank and full apology, specifically
You clearly have the conviction of what you were saying, I have no right to attempt to undermine that.
Its me who owes it to you *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
280
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:28:00 -
[2446] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:EDIT
I withdraw my comments, and I accept responsibility for my actions up till now.
I apologise for fighting a pointless battle, and I accept that I do not know it all.
I yield to the superior arguments put forward, and refute previous statements I have made with little or no logical backing. Wow. Well props for being able to admit when you are wrong instead of mindlessly repeating the same things over and over again until the opposing side gets bored and leaves like everyone else in this thread.
Much respect. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3218
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:30:00 -
[2447] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:EDIT
I withdraw my comments, and I accept responsibility for my actions up till now.
I apologise for fighting a pointless battle, and I accept that I do not know it all.
I yield to the superior arguments put forward, and refute previous statements I have made with little or no logical backing. Wow. Well props for being able to admit when you are wrong instead of mindlessly repeating the same things over and over again until the opposing side gets bored and leaves like everyone else in this thread. Much respect.
I appreciate that
For what its worth, I think I misread your post after a long and very tiring day and I snapped.
Once I was waist deep, I tried to pull my legs out with my arms.
Once my arms were stuck, I tried to pull them out with my face
So yeah, apologies to you too *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Anslo
Scope Works
4795
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:33:00 -
[2448] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Anslo wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:EDIT
I withdraw my comments, and I accept responsibility for my actions up till now.
I apologise for fighting a pointless battle, and I accept that I do not know it all.
I yield to the superior arguments put forward, and refute previous statements I have made with little or no logical backing. Well. Didn't see that coming. I offer you a frank and full apology, specifically You clearly have the conviction of what you were saying, I have no right to attempt to undermine that. Its me who owes it to you Accepted. You're more engagable when chill. Stay chill Candles.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3218
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:34:00 -
[2449] - Quote
Anslo wrote: Accepted. You're more engagable when chill. Stay chill Candles.
Thanks, Ill certainly do my best to
I have to say, when the red mist drops, more often than not, the folk in here are solid
Thank you everyone for accepting my contrition in this matter *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Anslo
Scope Works
4797
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:36:00 -
[2450] - Quote
On that note, who's up for a pint?!
|
|
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
46
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:43:00 -
[2451] - Quote
Tysun Kane wrote:Man I am just learning about this incident from the Cap Stable podcast I listen to. IMO this RL harassment just went to far BUT I also believe that the only thing that CCP seems to think is wrong is that it made it to there forums and that brings it to to the large audience and including all the new players we have had lately... That's not the position taken in the OP:
CCP Falcon wrote:...CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action...
That the perp brought it to the forum himself just made it easily verifiable, obviating questions such as "Did it really happen?" and "Who was involved?" Things could have turned out very differently, but despite all the CSM-blaming tears, the perp did it to himself. For that we can be grateful. |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
278
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 20:52:00 -
[2452] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:Tysun Kane wrote:Man I am just learning about this incident from the Cap Stable podcast I listen to. IMO this RL harassment just went to far BUT I also believe that the only thing that CCP seems to think is wrong is that it made it to there forums and that brings it to to the large audience and including all the new players we have had lately... That's not the position taken in the OP: CCP Falcon wrote:...CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action... That the perp brought it to the forum himself just made it easily verifiable, obviating questions such as "Did it really happen?" and "Who was involved?" Things could have turned out very differently, but despite all the CSM-blaming tears, the perp did it to himself. For that we can be grateful. Right. The problem is when banning someone for Real Life Harassment, you should also be asking questions like "Is it actually harassment?" and "Did it happen in real life?". CCP didn't seem to be too concerned with the answers to those two questions. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3091
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 21:59:00 -
[2453] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Hes back in the corp, and the corp never left the alliance and its back in its coalition.
What is it that you are saying?
That he shouldnt have lost his assests in a scam? No, I'm saying that overall he made isk following the bonus room, and the corp kicking thing was something he and his corp leader agreed. that was just in response to the "Everybody was punished" thing earlier.
Loko Crackhead wrote:No we are not clear. I was saying that I won't use previous unrelated events to judge the situation at hand. I might use it when considering the punishment ( already said that straight ban was a bit harsh but that's the problem with the forums- fragmentation). If CCP failed to act on this type of situation before, is on them not on me and I do agree (concede if you will) that their actions in this case seem to have bad publicity as a reason amongst other reasons.
I won't listen to lame excuses and consider them versions of the truth. Maybe I'm just stupid that way but it seems like a bad case of time waisting. And I will be gracious enough not to go into "What behavior?" remark. Singing and reading is all fine and dandy until somebody uses the "n" word or starts making RL threats. At that point the sane person stops the charade.
Yes other people were involved and I'm not sure they didn't get any repercussion but hey if they didn't, they should consider themselves lucky. OK, so if someone asks me to sing, I call them a "n" word and f they don't stop, they get banned. Sounds... fair.
And no, nobody that wasn't targeted by Teg's hate campaign received any kind of punishment. So it was just E1.
And they aren't lame excuses, they are first hand accounts of the facts. The audio file you listened to wasn't even the whole bonus room... The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3091
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 22:09:00 -
[2454] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Snupe Doggur wrote:Tysun Kane wrote:Man I am just learning about this incident from the Cap Stable podcast I listen to. IMO this RL harassment just went to far BUT I also believe that the only thing that CCP seems to think is wrong is that it made it to there forums and that brings it to to the large audience and including all the new players we have had lately... That's not the position taken in the OP: CCP Falcon wrote:...CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action... That the perp brought it to the forum himself just made it easily verifiable, obviating questions such as "Did it really happen?" and "Who was involved?" Things could have turned out very differently, but despite all the CSM-blaming tears, the perp did it to himself. For that we can be grateful. Right. The problem is when banning someone for Real Life Harassment, you should also be asking questions like "Is it actually harassment?" and "Did it happen in real life?". CCP didn't seem to be too concerned with the answers to those two questions. You also have the question "Did it happen at all". In the beginning I've asked that question, and DJ FunkyBacon has stated how simple a task it would be to offer someone in game to "take it to teamspeak" then record and edit an audio file to make it sound like someone identifying themselves as the target is being abusive. There would be no way to tell it was really them, and so no way to realistically enforce the new stance on third party harassment.
In this case, Erotica 1 made it clear as he wasn't hiding, since his intention was not to harass. So the reason he was banned was by being up front about it. If he'd not posted it there would be no way for someone to prove it was him. So realistically what is being stated here is that if you harass people out of game, don't publicly post it in a place that can be verified as you. If CCP take the other stance and ban without verification, then they open themselves up to someone setting someone up for a ban who did nothing wrong. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1115
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 22:49:00 -
[2455] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
The Rules: 5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1250
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 23:34:00 -
[2456] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Brusanan wrote: he was allowed to be as racist as he wanted Im just going to let this stand for what it is. Welcome to free speech. I know it's a foreign concept for people who live in many European countries where they ban any kind of speech that is mildly offensive to the easily offended.
That's not the Europe I live in. Our democracies are protected by EU legislation, the only people trying to undermine that is the USA which is where you presumably live.
Plus we didn't decide to spy on the entire Internet. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
106
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 07:53:00 -
[2457] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:If you don't like it, you can leave.
And if you don't like the discussion you can stop posting >.> Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
1022
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 09:18:00 -
[2458] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:If you don't like it, you can leave. And if you don't like the discussion you can stop posting >.>
As can you ^^ ------------ |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
106
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 10:40:00 -
[2459] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Blah, blah, blah I'm just a NPC corp forum troll
Living up to your name again I see :P
I love these guys who have nothing to add to the conversation or is confronted with an argument that they have no answer to, so they result to trolling and personal attacks.
I'm done with you now, welcome to my blocked list. Bye Bye now :D
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
1022
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 11:12:00 -
[2460] - Quote
I love these guys who have nothing to add to the conversation or is confronted with an argument that they have no answer to, so they result to trolling and personal attacks.
And then when they recognise that they have no ground to stand on, they announce that they are blocking you.
Byebye Leigh! ------------ |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3095
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 11:23:00 -
[2461] - Quote
Salvos, do you just turn up to any random thread and start trolling? I know you think you are being super duper smart and laying down some killer comebacks, but you are just that annoying guy that swans in periodically with absolutely no content to add and insults people. Then you cry when you get insulted back, or do the whole "I'm leaving, but I'm not, but I'm leaving, BUT I'M NOT!" thing.
You need to grow up son. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
784
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 12:07:00 -
[2462] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:[quote=Snupe Doggur]Right. The problem is when banning someone for Real Life Harassment, you should also be asking questions like "Is it actually harassment?" and "Did it happen in real life?". CCP didn't seem to be too concerned with the answers to those two questions. If you haven't noticed CCP has been moving Eve away from a hardcore PVP game to something more mainstream. Basically it's about $ and the more of the mainstream audience they can tap into means more subscriptions.
I'm not against CCP banning people for whatever but they should make it clear in the TOS as to what's okay and what's not. Making someone an example to show what gets you banned is not the way to do it.
Simply add something like "Communication with other Eve players using out of game applications such as Teamspeak and Ventrilo in a manner to cause emotional distress is prohibited.". |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3098
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 12:36:00 -
[2463] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Simply add something like "Communication with other Eve players using out of game applications such as Teamspeak and Ventrilo in a manner to cause emotional distress is prohibited.". How would they enforce this? I mean in this situation it's clear cut, but how would they ensure they aren't acting on false evidence if it didn't have the user posting on the forum to state it was him? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
674
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:03:00 -
[2464] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:I'm in the camp that Sohkar did nothing wrong as well. He was on a private TeamSpeak server, so he was allowed to be as racist as he wanted. The only one who had any right to punish him was the owner of the TS server (who would have immediately kicked him if he was around at the time).
But if you're in the camp that believes CCP should become the NSA and listen-in on TS chatter or punish people based on TS recordings, then Sohkar should have gotten a ban alongside Erotica. Either all of the TOS and EULA applies, or none of it does.
But it wouldn't have looked good in the press if CCP banned the "victim" of the story. Plus there were no CSM members with a grudge against Sohkar.
You realize all this could be applied to Erotica as well being that the only things he did were on TS and thats what he got banned for, yes? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
674
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:05:00 -
[2465] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Snupe Doggur wrote:Tysun Kane wrote:Man I am just learning about this incident from the Cap Stable podcast I listen to. IMO this RL harassment just went to far BUT I also believe that the only thing that CCP seems to think is wrong is that it made it to there forums and that brings it to to the large audience and including all the new players we have had lately... That's not the position taken in the OP: CCP Falcon wrote:...CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action... That the perp brought it to the forum himself just made it easily verifiable, obviating questions such as "Did it really happen?" and "Who was involved?" Things could have turned out very differently, but despite all the CSM-blaming tears, the perp did it to himself. For that we can be grateful. Right. The problem is when banning someone for Real Life Harassment, you should also be asking questions like "Is it actually harassment?" and "Did it happen in real life?". CCP didn't seem to be too concerned with the answers to those two questions.
OR "does the victim think it was harassment" or "did the victim even ticket this event?" PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
911
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 16:29:00 -
[2466] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability. - The EVE Universe Community Team
Hello CCP Falcon,
For the quote above to be genuine, I (we)'d expect some answers to our concerns, or was that just a line to keep us in check?
So, I've got some questions and they've been popping up in this thread but remain unanswered as of now;
- Will CCP be enforcing the TOS/EULA on third party communication services, be they Teamspeak, mail, external blogs or forums? - To what extend will the TOS/EULA be applied to third party communication services? ex.: Is racism OK when enticed by your interlocutor? - Can we be banned for having an out of game interaction with someone which is later deemed "bad" by a third party? - Does it matter the third party in the above question is a member of the CSM? - Will the logs show something now when we put in a petition for harassement through out of game means? - When someone feels very bad about the threat of loosing his/her ship or some other ingame happenings, are we now obligated to leave them be?
I'm sure there are more concerns but these are my main ones, a prompt reply would be very much appreciated since this whole debacle has put a dampner on the enjoyment I (and others with me) get from the unique experience you've provided up untill now. In any case, clarity would go a long way in putting our minds at ease.
Thanks upfront!
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
681
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 17:12:00 -
[2467] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Of course it's relevant. The whole point of this decisions is based around how upset the victim is. Of course his point of view is relevant, as is the point of view of Erotica 1. The recording is only 1 part of the situation. Even while that was going on, they were communicating via text based chat, so all you've got is a single point of view. Making a decision purely off that is pretty silly.
Under normal circumstances you would be correct: you wouldn't base it off of a single voice recording from one person because of the threat of editing and tampering. That is part of the reason why companies like CCP don't accept recorded "evidence" when answering tickets unless it is demonstrably proven to be unedited, which can be impossible under normal circumstances.
With that being said, what they had here was perfection. The antagonist was Ero1, and Ero1 is the one that provided the evidence used against him to justify the punishment. In essence, the blame lies with Ero1 for being that stupid, and try as he might to paint this as some type of CCP screw-up he has no one to blame but himself. He thought he was getting the last laugh. Well, CCP and Sohkar did. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
509
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:15:00 -
[2468] - Quote
Days later the same sad people arguing about poor sad Erotica who can no longer spend all his time leading little groups of in-game bullies to joy through songs, mayonnaise, and the harassment of player's family members. What a total waste of carbon. |
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
128
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:20:00 -
[2469] - Quote
I don't think CCP should be overstepping their boundaries like they did here.
I mean, if CCP is going to police us outside of the game, they might as well ban most of the player base. All of you who have forum accounts for your respective out-of-eveonline.com corporation boards and whatnot who happen to post racial slurs, pornography and be verbally abusive to one another should also be banned. Hell, I know of many players who take these practices to game. Have you ever run an incursion? Have you ever been given the warning "Links here may be NSFW" or "Click links at your own risk"? I'm sure I have.
What comes next? Me and my corpmates hang out at a random bar at an undisclosed location. After a few beers, we start getting verbally abusive against one another, and one of us simply can't cope with the abuse, so he throws a temper tantrum, and storms out of the place.
Do we all get banned now?
EDIT: That is not to say I support E1 or what he does. All I'm saying is that he was not banned for a breach in the EULA. This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165 |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
289
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:30:00 -
[2470] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:He thought he was getting the last laugh. Well, CCP and Sohkar did. You mean CCP and Ripard Teg. Because publicly, Sohkar is on Erotica's side on this whole issue. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3103
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:52:00 -
[2471] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Under normal circumstances you would be correct: you wouldn't base it off of a single voice recording from one person because of the threat of editing and tampering. That is part of the reason why companies like CCP don't accept recorded "evidence" when answering tickets unless it is demonstrably proven to be unedited, which can be impossible under normal circumstances.
With that being said, what they had here was perfection. The antagonist was Ero1, and Ero1 is the one that provided the evidence used against him to justify the punishment. In essence, the blame lies with Ero1 for being that stupid, and try as he might to paint this as some type of CCP screw-up he has no one to blame but himself. He thought he was getting the last laugh. Well, CCP and Sohkar did. But read that again. That reads to me like Erotica 1 is being punished for not hiding anything, where someone who goes out of their way to abuse someone and hide it get's off with no issues. Doesn't exactly sound like the best way to dispense justice.
And I don't think CCP are laughing, since they've just lost quite a few paying accounts and have this argument to deal with. Sohkar certainly isn't laughing, since he made his side of this totally clear, he didn't want Erotica 1 banned and stated that if Eroitca 1 was banned, he should be banned too. The only people laughing here are Ripard Teg who got away with abusing his CSM position, and a bunch of people who don't like scammers and are excited to see one exiting the game. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3106
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:54:00 -
[2472] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Days later the same sad people arguing about poor sad Erotica who can no longer spend all his time leading little groups of in-game bullies to joy through songs, mayonnaise, and the harassment of player's family members. What a total waste of carbon. Sure he can. you really think he spent more than a day out of EVE? Guarantee within 24 hours he was back with a fresh IP, a fresh alt and scamming his way up to his first plex. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5151
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 21:35:00 -
[2473] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:He thought he was getting the last laugh. Well, CCP and Sohkar did. You mean CCP and Ripard Teg. Because publicly, Sohkar is on Erotica's side on this whole issue.
I bet that privately Sohkar is laughing his ass off about what happened to Erotica 1.
Public and private are two different worlds. In one you say the easiest thing to just get it over with and in the other you show your true feelings.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
289
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 21:47:00 -
[2474] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Brusanan wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:He thought he was getting the last laugh. Well, CCP and Sohkar did. You mean CCP and Ripard Teg. Because publicly, Sohkar is on Erotica's side on this whole issue. I bet that privately Sohkar is laughing his ass off about what happened to Erotica 1. Public and private are two different worlds. In one you say the easiest thing to just get it over with and in the other you show your true feelings. Mr Epeen He said the same thing in private conversations as he did publicly. And all of those conversations, both public and private, were done voluntarily on his part. He initiated a conversation with Erotica, in private, and explained why he was on Erotica's side. Then he agreed to come onto our TS and make those statements publicly while we were streaming. Then the following night he agreed to go on Eve Radio with DJ FunkyBacon and give his side of the story, where again he sided with Erotica and publicly condemned Ripard Teg. He also stated that if the recording was enough to ban Erotica, then he deserved a ban for the things he said.
No, you do not get to pretend that he is secretly on your side when he explained very clearly that he is on Erotica's side and why that is. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5152
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 21:51:00 -
[2475] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Brusanan wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:He thought he was getting the last laugh. Well, CCP and Sohkar did. You mean CCP and Ripard Teg. Because publicly, Sohkar is on Erotica's side on this whole issue. I bet that privately Sohkar is laughing his ass off about what happened to Erotica 1. Public and private are two different worlds. In one you say the easiest thing to just get it over with and in the other you show your true feelings. Mr Epeen He said the same thing in private conversations as he did publicly. And all of those conversations, both public and private, were done voluntarily on his part. He also stated that if the recording was enough to ban Erotica, then he deserved a ban for the things he said. No, you do not get to pretend that he is secretly on your side when he explained very clearly that he is on Erotica's side and why that is.
Dude, if you know what he said in 'private' then you don't know what the word means.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
292
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 21:59:00 -
[2476] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Brusanan wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Brusanan wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:He thought he was getting the last laugh. Well, CCP and Sohkar did. You mean CCP and Ripard Teg. Because publicly, Sohkar is on Erotica's side on this whole issue. I bet that privately Sohkar is laughing his ass off about what happened to Erotica 1. Public and private are two different worlds. In one you say the easiest thing to just get it over with and in the other you show your true feelings. Mr Epeen He said the same thing in private conversations as he did publicly. And all of those conversations, both public and private, were done voluntarily on his part. He also stated that if the recording was enough to ban Erotica, then he deserved a ban for the things he said. No, you do not get to pretend that he is secretly on your side when he explained very clearly that he is on Erotica's side and why that is. Dude, if you know what he said in 'private' then you don't know what the word means. Mr Epeen Herp derp. Maybe it's because he was a very public figure for a while and private conversations he had with many people were made public after the fact?
Also, your argument is still a cop out. You are saying "He might have said something different in a conversation that was never made public, therefore I automatically get to claim that he agrees with me despite the fact that all of the evidence is to the contrary!".
Try again. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5156
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 23:57:00 -
[2477] - Quote
Brusanan wrote: therefore I automatically get to claim that he agrees with me
I doubt he agrees with me, since like anyone else that falls for scammers, I think he is a complete ******* moron. That has no bearing on the whole situation, however.
It's people stating opinion as fact and willfully misrepresenting CCP decisions to further their agenda that is the hilarious thing. You are a good example of this.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
681
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 02:28:00 -
[2478] - Quote
I had a well-written post drawn out over this, but I got rid of it. Needless to say, two of you are absolutely ******** when it comes to trying to debate anything.
CCP has the right to police their game and get involved. They have the right to ban you for any reason, or no reason. Wrap your head around that. All these claims about it being "a sandbox" and that CCP shouldn't police us "outside of the game" fail to understand a core concept: CCP is a company, and what matters is the bottom line. Ero1 created bad press for the company, like Mittens did last year at FanFest. Ripard did a story on it, and it went viral.
Ero1 is to blame for his own problems, because had he not attempted to mock Sohkar further by posting the SoundCloud recording, no one would give a damn.
Ero1 was not banned for scamming. He was banned for harassing the guy after the scam was complete by posting the guy's response on the forums. He was also banned because of the publicity it was attracting, and like it or not this game is in need of new blood. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4545
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 02:43:00 -
[2479] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote: He was also banned because of the publicity it was attracting, and like it or not this game is in need of new blood.
What publicity? It wasn't an issue for anyone (for months) until Ripard Teg raised a stink about it with bizarre, ill fitting and inappropriately overblown language. Singing Disney songs is "torture" now, by the way.
Given how many death threats were issued in the ensuing threadnaught, all of whom I have since seen somehow still posting, I could just as easily manufacture a crisis under the headline of: "CCP allows death threats against unpopular players!"
If I go and raise a big enough stink about it to the media, do I get to have someone banned too? Or do I have to be a CSM member for that? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5158
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 02:58:00 -
[2480] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: If I go and raise a big enough stink about it to the media, do I get to have someone banned too?
Maybe. If you had any relevance and your opinion was in any way acceptable to more than 10 people out of the 500,000 subbed in the game.
But try it and see what happens. Or just keep crying for CODE likes. Your call.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4545
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 03:01:00 -
[2481] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote: If I go and raise a big enough stink about it to the media, do I get to have someone banned too?
Maybe. If you had any relevance and your opinion was in any way acceptable to more than 10 people out of the 500,000 subbed in the game.
So... did you just outright admit that once I attain the magic number of followers, I can have people banned because I don't like them?
Fairly good for an accidental condemnation of Ripard Teg, if you ask me. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4545
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 03:04:00 -
[2482] - Quote
Given how very, very hard you've been White Knighting for Riptard, I never thought you'd slip up and admit that it was nothing more than a popularity thing.
But thanks for admitting that there were no legitimate issues, just a lynch mob afterall. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5158
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 03:19:00 -
[2483] - Quote
^^Don't run any quotes in your blog. You just look stupid when you straw man.^^
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4545
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 03:21:00 -
[2484] - Quote
Kaarous: "Can I really get people banned if I make a big enough fuss?"
Epeen: "Sure, if you have enough blog followers, but nobody likes you."
How else am I to interpret that? I'm curious. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5158
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 03:25:00 -
[2485] - Quote
It seems you can read words. Your problem is that you can't understand what they mean when strung together into a sentence.
It's okay though. There's a solution for that. It's called going to school.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4545
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 03:28:00 -
[2486] - Quote
Spin, spin, spin to win.
At least, that's what it looks like you're doing, since you got caught before you could edit our your little error. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5158
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 03:31:00 -
[2487] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Spin, spin, spin to win.
At least, that's what it looks like you're doing
Of course it does to you. But then, you aren't too bright as I already mentioned.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
914
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 05:45:00 -
[2488] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote: Maybe. If you had any relevance and your opinion was in any way acceptable to more than 10 people out of the 500,000 subbed in the game.
Hello Mr Epeen, you beautiful little troll, how many people would make someone relevant enough to get someone else banned? Would it be... 100? Is that your base for relevance?
Are you relevant? If so, would you be so kind to clear up the following, please?
- Will CCP be enforcing the TOS/EULA on third party communication services, be they Teamspeak, mail, external blogs or forums? - To what extend will the TOS/EULA be applied to third party communication services? ex.: Is racism OK when enticed by your interlocutor? - Can we be banned for having an out of game interaction with someone which is later deemed "bad" by a third party? - Does it matter the third party in the above question is a member of the CSM? - Will the logs show something now when we put in a petition for harassement through out of game means? - When someone feels very bad about the threat of loosing his/her ship or some other ingame happenings, are we now obligated to leave them be? - If at any time a player strays from the path envisioned by you, has there and will there be any from of interaction between the involved parties? If not, will there be a statement as to communicate what went wrong to the involved player?
I'm sure you won't sidestep, troll or otherwise make a mockery of this otherwise quite serious issue thread Please do make sure not to give your opinion, instead you can try and get the info straight from the horse's mouth. We all know opinions are irrelevant, especially yours
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
684
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 07:22:00 -
[2489] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Mr Epeen wrote: Maybe. If you had any relevance and your opinion was in any way acceptable to more than 10 people out of the 500,000 subbed in the game.
Hello Mr Epeen, you beautiful little troll, how many people would make someone relevant enough to get someone else banned? Would it be... 100? Is that your base for relevance? Are you relevant? If so, would you be so kind to clear up the following, please? - Will CCP be enforcing the TOS/EULA on third party communication services, be they Teamspeak, mail, external blogs or forums? - To what extend will the TOS/EULA be applied to third party communication services? ex.: Is racism OK when enticed by your interlocutor? - Can we be banned for having an out of game interaction with someone which is later deemed "bad" by a third party? - Does it matter the third party in the above question is a member of the CSM? - Will the logs show something now when we put in a petition for harassement through out of game means? - When someone feels very bad about the threat of loosing his/her ship or some other ingame happenings, are we now obligated to leave them be? - If at any time a player strays from the path envisioned by you, has there and will there be any from of interaction between the involved parties? If not, will there be a statement as to communicate what went wrong to the involved player? I'm sure you won't sidestep, troll or otherwise make a mockery of this otherwise quite serious issue thread Please do make sure not to give your opinion, instead you can try and get the info straight from the horse's mouth. We all know opinions are irrelevant, especially yours D.
I don't think I've seen a post full of so much retardation in so long.
Then I remember: Marmite Collective.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1025
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 07:26:00 -
[2490] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Danalee wrote:Mr Epeen wrote: Maybe. If you had any relevance and your opinion was in any way acceptable to more than 10 people out of the 500,000 subbed in the game.
Hello Mr Epeen, you beautiful little troll, how many people would make someone relevant enough to get someone else banned? Would it be... 100? Is that your base for relevance? Are you relevant? If so, would you be so kind to clear up the following, please? - Will CCP be enforcing the TOS/EULA on third party communication services, be they Teamspeak, mail, external blogs or forums? - To what extend will the TOS/EULA be applied to third party communication services? ex.: Is racism OK when enticed by your interlocutor? - Can we be banned for having an out of game interaction with someone which is later deemed "bad" by a third party? - Does it matter the third party in the above question is a member of the CSM? - Will the logs show something now when we put in a petition for harassement through out of game means? - When someone feels very bad about the threat of loosing his/her ship or some other ingame happenings, are we now obligated to leave them be? - If at any time a player strays from the path envisioned by you, has there and will there be any from of interaction between the involved parties? If not, will there be a statement as to communicate what went wrong to the involved player? I'm sure you won't sidestep, troll or otherwise make a mockery of this otherwise quite serious issue thread Please do make sure not to give your opinion, instead you can try and get the info straight from the horse's mouth. We all know opinions are irrelevant, especially yours D. I don't think I've seen a post full of so much retardation in so long.
This.
Its so bad, its embarrassing to read Sort of like someone with a disability flashing their **** out in public and yelling "I HAVE A BANANA". ------------ |
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
918
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 07:35:00 -
[2491] - Quote
I know I'm on the right track when you special people crawl out of the woodwork to attack the messenger and proove your stupidity while doing so. Both of you: congratulations! Thank you both for your insightful comments, I'm sure CCP appreciates your efforts in bringing everyone together under your nice little bridge.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
685
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 07:40:00 -
[2492] - Quote
Danalee wrote:I know I'm on the right track when you special people crawl out of the woodwork to attack the messenger and proove your stupidity while doing so. Both of you: congratulations! Thank you both for your insightful comments, I'm sure CCP appreciates your efforts in bringing everyone together under your nice little bridge. D.
I'm fully convinced you were dropped on your head as a child.
Go play in the street and let engineering finish what nature failed to do ten years ago, kiddo. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
918
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 07:49:00 -
[2493] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Danalee wrote:I know I'm on the right track when you special people crawl out of the woodwork to attack the messenger and proove your stupidity while doing so. Both of you: congratulations! Thank you both for your insightful comments, I'm sure CCP appreciates your efforts in bringing everyone together under your nice little bridge. D. I'm fully convinced you were dropped on your head as a child. Go play in the street and let engineering finish what nature failed to do ten years ago, kiddo.
Ok, kiddo!
I take it you in your obvious "wisdom" would love to answer these questions before I go end my obvious miserable and handicapped existence;
- Will CCP be enforcing the TOS/EULA on third party communication services, be they Teamspeak, mail, external blogs or forums? - To what extend will the TOS/EULA be applied to third party communication services? ex.: Is racism OK when enticed by your interlocutor? - Can we be banned for having an out of game interaction with someone which is later deemed "bad" by a third party? - Does it matter the third party in the above question is a member of the CSM? - Will the logs show something now when we put in a petition for harassement through out of game means? - When someone feels very bad about the threat of loosing his/her ship or some other ingame happenings, are we now obligated to leave them be? - If at any time a player strays from the path envisioned by you, has there and will there be any from of interaction between the involved parties? If not, will there be a statement as to communicate what went wrong to the involved player?
I'm sorry for breaking up your troll-time with my serious concerns but as you say, these are the concerns of a disabled kid and everyone loves to smother those in the attention they need and crave.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3109
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 07:50:00 -
[2494] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:I had a well-written post drawn out over this, but I got rid of it. Needless to say, two of you are absolutely ******** when it comes to trying to debate anything.
CCP has the right to police their game and get involved. They have the right to ban you for any reason, or no reason. Wrap your head around that. All these claims about it being "a sandbox" and that CCP shouldn't police us "outside of the game" fail to understand a core concept: CCP is a company, and what matters is the bottom line. Ero1 created bad press for the company, like Mittens did last year at FanFest. Ripard did a story on it, and it went viral.
Ero1 is to blame for his own problems, because had he not attempted to mock Sohkar further by posting the SoundCloud recording, no one would give a damn.
Ero1 was not banned for scamming. He was banned for harassing the guy after the scam was complete by posting the guy's response on the forums. He was also banned because of the publicity it was attracting, and like it or not this game is in need of new blood. Yes, CCP has the right to ban whoever hey want, but we have the right to not like and protest that decision. Pretty much everyone here has complained about some decision or another in the direction the CCP have taken this game at various points. Even this situation itself. It didn't occur because a victim was hurt, it occurred because someone with a bunch of followers didn't like it and complained, even though CCP had previously seen it and let it pass.
The problem a lot of us have here is they make no effort to explain where the new line is drawn or how they are going to enforce their new rule. From an outside perspective, this appears to have been that Erotica 1 got banned for not hiding the fact that the bonus rooms was taking place. If the same exact thing had happened but Erotica 1 hadn't posted it to the forum himself, action couldn't have been taken as there is no way for CCP to prove a third party recording to be real.
So that leave a question of where does it go from here? Is the official rule now that if you want to harass someone you shouldn't post about it on the forum where your identity can be verified? Or are CCP going to take the benefit of the doubt approach and ban people with no verification of the evidence? I mean the second one could be fun. Whenever someone says something you don't like, just whip up a recording of a mate yelling at you calling themselves by your targets name and send it off to CCP with some tears.
And Danalee has some good questions there. Since CCP stated they will read and respond to this thread, it will be interesting to see if and when they respond. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
294
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:00:00 -
[2495] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:CCP has the right to police their game and get involved. They have the right to ban you for any reason, or no reason. Wrap your head around that. That issue has been addressed dozens of times. It is completely irrelevant that CCP can ban anyone at any time for no reason, because if they actually did ban people for no reason there would STILL be riots in the streets and bad press about it. The fact that they CAN ban people for no reason doesn't mean they SHOULD, or that they could even get away with it without a lot of bad press.
Seriously, if people actually thought they banned Erotica just because they didn't like him, there would be way more pissed off members here than there is.
Quote:Ero1 created bad press for the company, like Mittens did last year at FanFest. A point that has been raised dozens of times. Mittens told someone to kill themselves on a CCP-run livestream with thousands of viewers and got a 30 day ban. Erotica asked someone to sing on TeamSpeak and got a permaban.
Quote:Ero1 is to blame for his own problems, because had he not attempted to mock Sohkar further by posting the SoundCloud recording, no one would give a damn. Tear extraction is a traditional part of Eve. It has been happening on third party voice chat clients for over 10 years now, and CCP has never had an issue with it until now. And even now they only had a problem with this one specific case, and on top of that they only had a problem with one specific player involved in this one specific case. The issue here is that they seemingly made a lot of exceptions for this one specific case, and if banning for any of these exceptions became common practice, most of the playerbase would be in danger of a ban.
Quote:He was banned for harassing the guy after the scam was complete by posting the guy's response on the forums. If sharing tears with people qualifies as "harassment" now, every pirate ever deserves a ban.
Quote:He was also banned because of the publicity it was attracting, and like it or not this game is in need of new blood. The only person who is guilty of attracting bad press is Ripard Teg. Ripard Teg wrote a blog post intentionally blowing the issue way out of proportion, filling it with words like "torture" and "cyber-bullying", specifically to ATTRACT that bad press. Then he even went to Massively and other media outlets to get them to spread that bad press. And on top of that, he blackmailed CCP with a threat of MORE bad press if they didn't take action. He intentionally put CCP into a lose-lose situation over a personal vendetta he had with another player. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Salvos Rhoska
1025
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:03:00 -
[2496] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Since CCP stated they will read and respond to this thread, it will be interesting to see if and when they respond.
You already stated a refusal to address your questions directly to CCP. Remember?
So keep on asking the community questions that only CCP can answer, and wondering why you get the responses you do. Its highly amusing.
As I said eaelier, its like you walked into a bank, and started asking the other customers for loans or for clarification on the banks policies, and getting angry when they tell you matter of factly, that they are not the bank managers and that no, they will not give you a loan from their own pocket.
If you dont address your questions to CCP directly, dont expect an answer from them. Its not rocket science, and hilarious that you dont seem to grasp that simple concept. ------------ |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
294
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:05:00 -
[2497] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:You already stated a refusal to address your questions directly to CCP. Remember?
So keep on asking the community questions that only CCP can answer, and wondering why you get the responses you do. Its highly amusing. CCP won't answer the questions until it has been asked enough times on the forums. Everyone knows that, except for you, apparently. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
919
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:07:00 -
[2498] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: Since CCP stated they will read and respond to this thread, it will be interesting to see if and when they respond. You already stated a refusal to address your questions directly to CCP. Remember? Danalee is repeating that hilarious mistake. So keep on asking the community questions that only CCP can answer, and wondering why you get the responses you do. Its highly amusing. As I said eaelier, its like you walked into a bank, and started asking the other customers for loans or for clarification on the banks policies, and getting angry when they tell you matter of factly, that they are not the bank managers and that no, they will not give you a loan from their own pocket. If you dont address your questions to CCP directly, dont expect an answer from them.Its not rocket science, and hilarious that you dont seem to grasp that simple concept.
But Salvos, nobody is asking you anything? Why do you insist on relpying, especially seeing the very limited mental capacities you expose while trying to reply to people who didn't ask you anything to begin with? Also:
CCP Falcon wrote: As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Salvos Rhoska
1025
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:09:00 -
[2499] - Quote
ITT: people writing the wrong address on the envelope, and getting mad when they dont get an answer from another address.
If you want answers, address them to the relevant recipient.
Write up a list of questions and ask CCP directly.
Its not rocket science, infact its pretty astounding that you dont comprehend this simple precept of communication. Nobody else hereis under any obligation, or authorised, to answer questions about CCP policy. Only CCP is.
Ask CCP. ------------ |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4558
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:12:00 -
[2500] - Quote
It's not rocket science, but it might be lawyer-ing, right Salvos? You'd know, after all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
919
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:13:00 -
[2501] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:II don't read anything and just troll people (very badly) hoping they go away Ask CCP.
I'll bold random stuff to help you:
CCP Falcon wrote: As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability.
- The EVE Universe Community Team
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
296
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:13:00 -
[2502] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: people writing the wrong address on the envelope, and getting mad when they dont get an answer from another address.
If you want answers, address them to the relevant recipient.
Write up a list of questions and ask CCP directly.
Its not rocket science, infact its pretty astounding that you dont comprehend this simple precept of communication. Nobody else hereis under any obligation, or authorised, to answer questions about CCP policy. Only CCP is.
Ask CCP. I liked the part where you intentionally ignored the fact that CCP specifically told people to ask questions in this thread, immediately after it was quoted for you. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
685
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:13:00 -
[2503] - Quote
I would agree, in part. I don't think it was ever fully ignored, but rather CCP was looking to see how the CSM thought of it (in fact, on Tyrant's podcast Ripard says such a thing, that CCP had asked the CSM about various recordings and this one in particular stood out to him).
Lord knows I've complained about plenty of CCP's decisions; I was one of the more vocal people during Monoclegate from Day 1, drafting up a vote of no confidence in Hilmar. I was active during SOMERgate. I've stayed away from this one because I do find myself on both sides of the fence at times. However, I also have to consider that this was a perfect piece that could ruin EvE Online, and one of our writers at Massively really did try to work with it. However, when things really got to me, I spoke with my wallet as did thousands of others during Monoclegate. In the end, CCP is a company, and thus anything that negatively impacts their bottom line will get their attention. Negative publicity like this is one of the things a company cannot endure, especially when people already have a skewed perception of the product.
EvE Online is a harsh world, we all know this. Anyone who does even the faintest amount of reading and what-not on the game before diving in knows this. It is not for the faint of heart; it is not World of Warcraft. We are the Mos Eisley of MMOs.
I was going to go over this for a YouTube video, but I'll break it down: there are two types of people in this game, really. There are the people who play for the right reasons, who PvP and want to make the game better in that regard. Then there are the people here for selfish reasons: from wanting absolutely no PvP in high sec to wanting to absolutely destroy this game if they don't get their way. Now, with-in those groups are plenty of sub-groups, and Ero1 falls within the group that pushes lines.
In EvE, we all push the line at one point or another. In a sandbox you have to, to find out where to stop. People like Ero1 go beyond that, stepping over the line, reaching back and putting it back in front of them. These types of people are always the most calculating, trying to push through things that help them. In World of Warcraft, most world-first kills during Wrath of the Lich King were done this way, but using game mechanics that weren't intended. The problem with this is that you place the developer and company in a position where they have no choice and must respond. That response is generally beyond what you have seen previously.
Remember, when Mittens was suspended and removed from the CSM last year everyone said that CCP went beyond it's own jurisdiction because i didn't happen in-game, ignoring that it happened during FanFest. In this, it didn't happen in-game, but CCP does have jurisdiction for a few reasons. The entire thing began in the game, and CCP should work to make sure that instances of legitimate harassment are handled appropriately. So, Ero1 began this in-game, and then brought it to TeamSpeak.
Now we're on TeamSpeak. He starts his thing, and the scam is over in roughly 10 minutes. However, they go beyond that. I've worked with Psy Ops guys in the United States Army. I had a Sergeant First Class listen to the recording, and he came back and said that it was eerie how well these guys worked, like they had training in PsyOps. They were like predators, and he was actually impressed, so take that as you will. Either way, they pushed things further. They went from simple scamming to bullying, as much as we all don't want to admit this.
Now, had this all been left on TeamSpeak, what would have happened? Sohkar could have said something, but CCP would have told him what every MMO developer says: they will not accept third-party recordings as evidence because of the fact it can be edited and doctored, and they can't authenticate it's validity. In this case however, Erotica 1 hyped it up and posted it on the forums. In essence, this entire thing began in-game, and ended on the forums. In other words, it began and ended in CCP's jurisdiction. And because Erotica 1 gave them the rope to hang him, they acted. They had to. There was a clear pattern of using these recordings for harassment purposes. If CCP didn't respond then, what was to stop Erotica 1 from posting more like it?
Eventually the numbers of postings would add up, and try as hard as you might the bullying would be incredibly evident. And the press would be ruthless, more-so than it already is.
Like it or not, EvE needs an influx of new blood. High sec knows this, low sec knows this, null sec knows this. the cries for more bodies are rampant, but the players are fighting it tooth-and-nail in order to prevent it. They aren't looking at this in any way other than the very short-term. CCP has to fight to keep this game afloat at this point, and as uch as you may despise Ripard's activities, I do encourage you to read the series he was doing on bullying in the game because it makes quite a few valid points.
What this comes down to is CCP will only act if the third-party information can be validated. That means if you're harassing someone and are posting it with your character name attached for ***** and giggles, expect to be punished. Saying that soeone was a jerk to you on TeamSpeak and providing a "recording" will not have CCP act, because they can't validte the authenticity of the recording.
CCP can ban you at any time, for any reason or no reason at all. You and I are only here by the grace of CCP, and nothing more. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:15:00 -
[2504] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Mr Epeen wrote: Maybe. If you had any relevance and your opinion was in any way acceptable to more than 10 people out of the 500,000 subbed in the game.
Hello Mr Epeen, you beautiful little troll, how many people would make someone relevant enough to get someone else banned? Would it be... 100? Is that your base for relevance? Are you relevant? If so, would you be so kind to clear up the following, please? - Will CCP be enforcing the TOS/EULA on third party communication services, be they Teamspeak, mail, external blogs or forums? - To what extend will the TOS/EULA be applied to third party communication services? ex.: Is racism OK when enticed by your interlocutor? - Can we be banned for having an out of game interaction with someone which is later deemed "bad" by a third party? - Does it matter the third party in the above question is a member of the CSM? - Will the logs show something now when we put in a petition for harassement through out of game means? - When someone feels very bad about the threat of loosing his/her ship or some other ingame happenings, are we now obligated to leave them be? - If at any time a player strays from the path envisioned by you, has there and will there be any from of interaction between the involved parties? If not, will there be a statement as to communicate what went wrong to the involved player? I'm sure you won't sidestep, troll or otherwise make a mockery of this otherwise quite serious issue thread Please do make sure not to give your opinion, instead you can try and get the info straight from the horse's mouth. We all know opinions are irrelevant, especially yours D.
I'll bite:
1. Yes, If the interaction in that third party was caused by in-game interactions.
2. No, it's not OK. However the jury (AKA CCP) can dish punishment after acknowledging the extenuating circumstances.
3. Yes if the jury (AKA CCP) considers the interaction "bad" too.
4. No, it shouldn't (in a perfect world) but we don't live in such a world.
5. I have no idea.
6. No. This questions is a bit ********.
7. Hmm, what? This is a bit equivocal and I need clarification before answering.
Not Mr. Epeen. |
Salvos Rhoska
1025
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:16:00 -
[2505] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's not rocket science, but it might be lawyer-ing, right Salvos? You'd know, after all.
If uou have questions about CCP policy, ASK CCP
You dont need a law degree to understand that. I was taught in 2nd grade, how to write "Dear, XXX" at the beginning of a letter, and how to write the right address on the envelope. ------------ |
Salvos Rhoska
1025
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:20:00 -
[2506] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: people writing the wrong address on the envelope, and getting mad when they dont get an answer from another address.
If you want answers, address them to the relevant recipient.
Write up a list of questions and ask CCP directly.
Its not rocket science, infact its pretty astounding that you dont comprehend this simple precept of communication. Nobody else hereis under any obligation, or authorised, to answer questions about CCP policy. Only CCP is.
Ask CCP. I liked the part where you intentionally ignored the fact that CCP specifically told people to ask questions in this thread, immediately after it was quoted for you.
And I LOVED the part where you ignored that CCP WILL ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASK THEM DIRECTLY!
Its like you are going around an asylum asking the other loonies what the asylums policies are on you wearing your pants on your head and sticking pencils up your nose.
ASK CCP DIRECTLY IF YOU WANT ANSWERS THAT ONLY CCP HAS AUTHORISATION AND COMPETENCE TO ANSWER.
How hard is that? ------------ |
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
297
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:20:00 -
[2507] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's not rocket science, but it might be lawyer-ing, right Salvos? You'd know, after all. If uou have questions about CCP policy, ASK CCPYou dont need a law degree to understand that. I was taught in 2nd grade, how to write "Dear, XXX" at the beginning of a letter, and how to write the right address on the envelope. So if we actually want our questions answered, would it be a better idea to ask them in the thread that CCP started specifically for those questions, or to ask them where some random troll in an NPC corp said they should go?
Yeah, I'm going to go with here, in this thread, because CCP specifically said so. Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4559
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:22:00 -
[2508] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's not rocket science, but it might be lawyer-ing, right Salvos? You'd know, after all. If uou have questions about CCP policy, ASK CCPYou dont need a law degree to understand that. I was taught in 2nd grade, how to write "Dear, XXX" at the beginning of a letter, and how to write the right address on the envelope.
If you got that in 2nd grade, how old were you when you got that law degree you told us about? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1025
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:23:00 -
[2509] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's not rocket science, but it might be lawyer-ing, right Salvos? You'd know, after all. If uou have questions about CCP policy, ASK CCPYou dont need a law degree to understand that. I was taught in 2nd grade, how to write "Dear, XXX" at the beginning of a letter, and how to write the right address on the envelope. So if we actually want our questions answered, would it be a better idea to ask them in the thread that CCP started specifically for those questions, or to ask them where some random troll in an NPC corp said they should go? Yeah, I'm going to go with here, in this thread, because CCP specifically said so.
Why would CCP answer questions that you are asking OTHER PLAYERS?
ASK CCP IF YOU WANT ANSWERS FROM CCP!
My god, this is hilarious. ------------ |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
919
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:23:00 -
[2510] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:-edited due to size - there are two types of people in this game, really. There are the people who play for the right reasons, who PvP and want to make the game better in that regard. Then there are the people here for selfish reasons: from wanting absolutely no PvP in high sec to wanting to absolutely destroy this game if they don't get their way. Now, with-in those groups are plenty of sub-groups, and Ero1 falls within the group that pushes lines.
In EvE, we all push the line at one point or another. In a sandbox you have to, to find out where to stop. People like Ero1 go beyond that, stepping over the line, reaching back and putting it back in front of them. These types of people are always the most calculating, trying to push through things that help them. In World of Warcraft, most world-first kills during Wrath of the Lich King were done this way, but using game mechanics that weren't intended. The problem with this is that you place the developer and company in a position where they have no choice and must respond. That response is generally beyond what you have seen previously.
Remember, when Mittens was suspended and removed from the CSM last year everyone said that CCP went beyond it's own jurisdiction because i didn't happen in-game, ignoring that it happened during FanFest. In this, it didn't happen in-game, but CCP does have jurisdiction for a few reasons. The entire thing began in the game, and CCP should work to make sure that instances of legitimate harassment are handled appropriately. So, Ero1 began this in-game, and then brought it to TeamSpeak.
Now we're on TeamSpeak. He starts his thing, and the scam is over in roughly 10 minutes. However, they go beyond that. I've worked with Psy Ops guys in the United States Army. I had a Sergeant First Class listen to the recording, and he came back and said that it was eerie how well these guys worked, like they had training in PsyOps. They were like predators, and he was actually impressed, so take that as you will. Either way, they pushed things further. They went from simple scamming to bullying, as much as we all don't want to admit this.
Now, had this all been left on TeamSpeak, what would have happened? Sohkar could have said something, but CCP would have told him what every MMO developer says: they will not accept third-party recordings as evidence because of the fact it can be edited and doctored, and they can't authenticate it's validity. In this case however, Erotica 1 hyped it up and posted it on the forums. In essence, this entire thing began in-game, and ended on the forums. In other words, it began and ended in CCP's jurisdiction. And because Erotica 1 gave them the rope to hang him, they acted. They had to. There was a clear pattern of using these recordings for harassment purposes. If CCP didn't respond then, what was to stop Erotica 1 from posting more like it?
Eventually the numbers of postings would add up, and try as hard as you might the bullying would be incredibly evident. And the press would be ruthless, more-so than it already is.
Like it or not, EvE needs an influx of new blood. High sec knows this, low sec knows this, null sec knows this. the cries for more bodies are rampant, but the players are fighting it tooth-and-nail in order to prevent it. They aren't looking at this in any way other than the very short-term. CCP has to fight to keep this game afloat at this point, and as uch as you may despise Ripard's activities, I do encourage you to read the series he was doing on bullying in the game because it makes quite a few valid points.
What this comes down to is CCP will only act if the third-party information can be validated. That means if you're harassing someone and are posting it with your character name attached for ***** and giggles, expect to be punished. Saying that soeone was a jerk to you on TeamSpeak and providing a "recording" will not have CCP act, because they can't validte the authenticity of the recording.
CCP can ban you at any time, for any reason or no reason at all. You and I are only here by the grace of CCP, and nothing more.
Bloody hell! Pigs fly! I agree with your discourse. My concerns haven't been answered however therefor I post them here (where CCP asked to post them). You'll notice there aren't any people who disagree with your statement entirely. There will be slight differences but the general idea is exactly how you (quite eloquently I might add) put it in your post.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
|
Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
297
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:24:00 -
[2511] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Brusanan wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: people writing the wrong address on the envelope, and getting mad when they dont get an answer from another address.
If you want answers, address them to the relevant recipient.
Write up a list of questions and ask CCP directly.
Its not rocket science, infact its pretty astounding that you dont comprehend this simple precept of communication. Nobody else hereis under any obligation, or authorised, to answer questions about CCP policy. Only CCP is.
Ask CCP. I liked the part where you intentionally ignored the fact that CCP specifically told people to ask questions in this thread, immediately after it was quoted for you. And I LOVED the part where you ignored that CCP WILL ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASK THEM DIRECTLY! Its like you are going around an asylum asking the other loonies what the asylums policies are on you wearing your pants on your head and sticking pencils up your nose. ASK CCP DIRECTLY IF YOU WANT ANSWERS THAT ONLY CCP HAS AUTHORISATION AND COMPETENCE TO ANSWER. How hard is that? 1) As has been pointed out at least 10 times for you now, THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE CCP WANTS THE ******* QUESTIONS! 2) There are hundreds of people who want these questions answered. Is it more efficient for CCP to answer these questions in private hundreds of times to every single individual who wants the answer, or just once, in the thread they created for it? Psychotic Monk and DJ FunkyBacon for CSM! |
Salvos Rhoska
1025
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:30:00 -
[2512] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Brusanan wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:ITT: people writing the wrong address on the envelope, and getting mad when they dont get an answer from another address.
If you want answers, address them to the relevant recipient.
Write up a list of questions and ask CCP directly.
Its not rocket science, infact its pretty astounding that you dont comprehend this simple precept of communication. Nobody else hereis under any obligation, or authorised, to answer questions about CCP policy. Only CCP is.
Ask CCP. I liked the part where you intentionally ignored the fact that CCP specifically told people to ask questions in this thread, immediately after it was quoted for you. And I LOVED the part where you ignored that CCP WILL ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT YOU ASK THEM DIRECTLY! Its like you are going around an asylum asking the other loonies what the asylums policies are on you wearing your pants on your head and sticking pencils up your nose. ASK CCP DIRECTLY IF YOU WANT ANSWERS THAT ONLY CCP HAS AUTHORISATION AND COMPETENCE TO ANSWER. How hard is that? 1) As has been pointed out at least 10 times for you now, THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE CCP WANTS THE ******* QUESTIONS! 2) There are hundreds of people who want these questions answered. Is it more efficient for CCP to answer these questions in private hundreds of times to every single individual who wants the answer, or just once, in the thread they created for it?
SEE https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4451371#post4451371 for instructions.
Not a single one of you has addressed CCP directly here in this thread with your questions. Not even ONE lol.
If you want answers from CCP, ADDRESS YOUR QUESTIONS TO THEM. ------------ |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
919
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:31:00 -
[2513] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote: I'll bite:
- Will CCP be enforcing the TOS/EULA on third party communication services, be they Teamspeak, mail, external blogs or forums? 1. Yes, If the interaction in that third party was caused by in-game interactions. - To what extend will the TOS/EULA be applied to third party communication services? ex.: Is racism OK when enticed by your interlocutor? 2. No, it's not OK. However the jury (AKA CCP) can dish punishment after acknowledging the extenuating circumstances. - Can we be banned for having an out of game interaction with someone which is later deemed "bad" by a third party? 3. Yes if the jury (AKA CCP) considers the interaction "bad" too. - Does it matter the third party in the above question is a member of the CSM? 4. No, it shouldn't (in a perfect world) but we don't live in such a world. - Will the logs show something now when we put in a petition for harassement through out of game means? 5. I have no idea. - When someone feels very bad about the threat of loosing his/her ship or some other ingame happenings, are we now obligated to leave them be? 6. No. This questions is a bit ********. - If at any time a player strays from the path envisioned by you, has there and will there be any from of interaction between the involved parties? If not, will there be a statement as to communicate what went wrong to the involved player? 7. Hmm, what? This is a bit equivocal and I need clarification before answering.
Not Mr. Epeen.
Thank you for trying, Loko Crackhead ()
My last question was in short: Will you communicate with players when you think they are being bad or will you just banhammer and done with it?
I'll just wait for CCP to answer if that's ok with you though, you did reply most with what I excpect them to do but quite some things remain vague and/or unanswered.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Salvos Rhoska
1025
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:33:00 -
[2514] - Quote
Danalee wrote:I'll just wait for CCP to answer if that's ok with you though, you did reply most with what I excpect them to do but quite some things remain vague and/or unanswered. D.
Why would CCP answer questions that you have not directed to them? You asked Loco those questions, not CCP. So Loco answered them, not CCP.
HUUURR DURR ------------ |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 08:43:00 -
[2515] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote: I'll bite:
- Will CCP be enforcing the TOS/EULA on third party communication services, be they Teamspeak, mail, external blogs or forums? 1. Yes, If the interaction in that third party was caused by in-game interactions. - To what extend will the TOS/EULA be applied to third party communication services? ex.: Is racism OK when enticed by your interlocutor? 2. No, it's not OK. However the jury (AKA CCP) can dish punishment after acknowledging the extenuating circumstances. - Can we be banned for having an out of game interaction with someone which is later deemed "bad" by a third party? 3. Yes if the jury (AKA CCP) considers the interaction "bad" too. - Does it matter the third party in the above question is a member of the CSM? 4. No, it shouldn't (in a perfect world) but we don't live in such a world. - Will the logs show something now when we put in a petition for harassement through out of game means? 5. I have no idea. - When someone feels very bad about the threat of loosing his/her ship or some other ingame happenings, are we now obligated to leave them be? 6. No. This questions is a bit ********. - If at any time a player strays from the path envisioned by you, has there and will there be any from of interaction between the involved parties? If not, will there be a statement as to communicate what went wrong to the involved player? 7. Hmm, what? This is a bit equivocal and I need clarification before answering.
Not Mr. Epeen.
Thank you for trying, Loko Crackhead ( ) My last question was in short: Will you communicate with players when you think they are being bad or will you just banhammer and done with it? I'll just wait for CCP to answer if that's ok with you though, you did reply most with what I excpect them to do but quite some things remain vague and/or unanswered. D.
7. Though one but I'll role play "Yes, we are going to, but we are going to ask for complete privacy over the said communication."
Vague is not necessarily bad as a concept. It allows for out of box content creation. I do agree though, that it can be bad for those that equate vague with non-existent.
Yes, you have my permission to wait for CCP reply but please, for your sake, don't hold your breath while doing so . |
Salvos Rhoska
1029
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 09:21:00 -
[2516] - Quote
@ Danalee:
My apology, you had indeed addressed your questions directly to the correct recipient here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4448921#post4448921
Gj. I'm impressed. I suppose he missed it, same as I did, under all the rest of this.
Just keep spamming your question list to CCP Falcon, and perhaps you will get your answers. I'ts not like you haven't spammed before.
Good luck! ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3111
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 09:59:00 -
[2517] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: Since CCP stated they will read and respond to this thread, it will be interesting to see if and when they respond. You already stated a refusal to address your questions directly to CCP. Remember? Danalee is repeating that hilarious mistake. So keep on asking the community questions that only CCP can answer, and wondering why you get the responses you do. Its highly amusing. As I said eaelier, its like you walked into a bank, and started asking the other customers for loans or for clarification on the banks policies, and getting angry when they tell you matter of factly, that they are not the bank managers and that no, they will not give you a loan from their own pocket. If you dont address your questions to CCP directly, dont expect an answer from them.Its not rocket science, and hilarious that you dont seem to grasp that simple concept. You mean like here? Where the questions are directed at CCP? The problem is, people like you come along, assume the questions are being directed at you, refuse to answer stating nonsense like you do above, and just attack the people asking. You are a troll and nothing more. So **** off. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3111
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 10:08:00 -
[2518] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Why would CCP answer questions that you are asking OTHER PLAYERS?
ASK CCP IF YOU WANT ANSWERS FROM CCP!
My god, this is hilarious.
I will teach you how, cos Im a nice guy.
"Dear CCP Falcon,
You stated you would answer questions about the statement to the best of your ability. Here are my questions:
1) Can I wear my pants onmy head?
2) Is your name really CCP Falcon?
3) Has Salvos ever claimed to be a lawyer?
Thanks in advance for your time and consideration, Regards, Tard #3.
PS: Why am I so stupid? PPS:I like cake"
--------------------- So Salvos, when you inevitably come back to try to troll again, then you read this, then read the link above, how stupid are you going to feel on a scale of 1 to 10? I mean this has got to be one of the dumbest responses I've seen on these forums in a LOOOOONG time, and I've read a lot of yours recently which are always competing for the record.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:@ Danalee: My apology, you had indeed addressed your questions directly to the correct recipient here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4448921#post4448921Gj. I'm impressed. I suppose he missed it, same as I did, under all the rest of this. Just keep spamming your question list to CCP Falcon, and perhaps you will get your answers. I'ts not like you haven't spammed before. Good luck! The answer is 10 it seems. And yes, it is an issue that when trolls start coming onto the forums screaming about how they think everyone's doing it wrong they get pretty filled up. So do us all a favour and stop being a troll, or you know, troll elsewhere. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1029
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 10:23:00 -
[2519] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You mean like here? Where the questions are directed at CCP? The problem is, people like you come along, assume the questions are being directed at you, refuse to answer stating nonsense like you do above, and just attack the people asking. You are a troll and nothing more. So **** off.
That isn't you. Are you Danalee?
HAHAHAHHAHAHAH
You are the failer who DELIBERATELY AND SPECIFICALLY STATED he refuses to direct his questions to CCP. Have you forgotten? Or are you backpedalling again? Its already been shown many many times by others as well how often you change your story. I pity you, sincerely. Life must be very hard and confusing for you.
Unbelievable. I can't tell you how hilarious you are to me. Beyond words.
You are the guy who refused to address his questions to CCP, and instead constantly asked other players what CCP's policy is.
Danalee has, to her credit, done so. And I hope CCP Falcon notices her questions and answers them. You, however, have not, and infact have repeatedly stated that you refuse to do so for reasons that are absolutely ********. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3113
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 11:03:00 -
[2520] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:That isn't you. Are you Danalee?
HAHAHAHHAHAHAH
You are the failer who DELIBERATELY AND SPECIFICALLY STATED he refuses to direct his questions to CCP. Have you forgotten? Or are you backpedalling again? Its already been shown many many times by others as well how often you change your story. I pity you, sincerely. Life must be very hard and confusing for you.
Unbelievable. I can't tell you how hilarious you are to me. Beyond words.
You are the guy who refused to address his questions to CCP, and instead constantly asked other players what CCP's policy is.
Danalee has, to her credit, done so. And I hope CCP Falcon notices her questions and answers them. You, however, have not, and infact have repeatedly stated that you refuse to do so for reasons that are absolutely ********.
Danalee did the right thing, addressed the right person with her questions. Hopefully CCP Falcon will answer those questions addressed ro him.
You, however, have stated you refuse to ask CCP, and instead have been pestering other players for answers they are in no position of authority or knowledge to answer. That is indescribably stupid. I never stated I didn't want them answered by CCP, I simply stated it was my right to place my question here rather than posting a ticket like you were repeatedly telling me to do. My reasons for doing so are simple. I don't have to adhere to what YOU want. End of reasoning. If you don't like that, that's YOUR problem.
As for me not being Danalee, what are you a moron? Don't you remember writing things like this?Clearly you weren't targeting me by saying "Hey Lucas, ask CCP". You were running your mouth again like a little troll and failing miserably since you were stating that "Not even ONE lol" person had asked CCP. Now you are trying to save face by attacking me. Best of luck there buddy, everyone here knows exactly what you are and exactly why you post in every thread you do. You're a little troll that likes to throw around personal attacks. Grow up son. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
SKINE DMZ
S U P R E M E - M A T H E M A T I C S A Band Apart.
391
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 11:49:00 -
[2521] - Quote
CCP post thread specifically for responses.
BadTroll: "questions not directly aimed at CCP".
bad troll of the year goes to............ BadTroll I disagree |
Percival Rose
J44 Capital Axiom Initiative
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 13:03:00 -
[2522] - Quote
Grief play (source) A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.
An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in the systems the Blood Stained Stars epic arc takes you through is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.
Where does CCP draw the line between a Griefer wardec and Grief Play? And will recent events change the way the rules are interpreted and/or enforced?
De you know who's going to inherit New Eden? Arms dealers. Because everyone else is too busy killing each other. |
Salvos Rhoska
1030
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 13:04:00 -
[2523] - Quote
Lucas categorically refused to direct his questions to CCP.
Instead he has been pestering other players with a his fail irrelevancies.
When he was called on it he replied to the effect of "I don't want to ask CCP what their policy is, instead I want to ask other players what CCPs policy is".
Ofc that makes no sense, but this is not a sensible person.
Danalee has directed his questions to the proper address, to CCP Falcon. Hopefully she will get her questions answered.
As to Lucas, he is a reminder that there really are idiots in the world. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3114
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 13:33:00 -
[2524] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas categorically refused to direct his questions to CCP. Instead he has been pestering other players with his fail irrelevancies, and trolling and attacking other posts instead of directing his questions to the only source who is authorised or informed to answer them, which is CCP. Hes attacked and annoyed countless other posters for several dozens of pages with questions that NOBODY EXCEPT CCP can answer.
When he was called on it he replied to the effect of "I don't want to ask CCP what their policy is". Actually, I directed my questions at nobody in particular, in a thread CCP stated they read. If someone that wasn't CCP wanted to respond, they were and are fully welcome to. You were flying off the handle because I wouldn't put it in a ticket to CCP and leave the thread. Freedom of speech is awesome.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:As to Lucas, he is a sad reminder that not everyone is smart. And not everyone has even average intelligence. Now he tries to claim I, or anyone else, told him to post a ticket. This poor intellectually disabled individual does not comprehend, that he was simply being told to address his questions IN THIS THREAD TO CCP, and not to other players. So in short here, you are miffed and decided the best way to approach that was to attack me personally? Good job buddy. All you do is show up in threads at random, completely ignore the content of the thread and insult people. Honestly, how are you even still a part of this community?
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Its shocking to be reminded that there really are people out there who struggle to intellectually understand what is going on, and what is being said. They don't "get it" because they lack the capacity to do so. Just have to be patient with them and talk to them as you would a small child, then they atleast have a chance to understand that their "problem" is in their own lack of comprehension, and not in anything anyone else has done. HERPA DERP. Yes, it is pretty shocking isn't it. It's pretty shocking that someone will spend all day hunting for threads to troll without adding anything to the discussion. Whats weird is, you hunt around to troll, the YOU get upset and start insulting everyone. You are successfully trolling yourself.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Just to make it explicitly as clear and simple as possible for you, Lucas:
DIRECT YOUR QUESTIONS IN THIS THREAD, REGARDING THE STATEMENT AND POLICY, TO CCP. NOT TO OTHER PLAYERS. And I too will make it clear.
I WILL ASK WHAT I WANT, WHERE I WANT, WHEN I WANT, AND OMIT OR INCLUDE A SPECIFIC TARGET OF MY QUESTIONS AT MY OWN WILL.
Clear enough? If you don't like it, **** off. Nothing you say will suddenly make me want to bow to the demands of a pathetic little troll. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1031
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 16:47:00 -
[2525] - Quote
Guy is still wondering why he gets no answer from CCP, when all he has done, is address them to everyone EXCEPT CCP, and when this was pointed out to him, he said to the effect of "No, I dont want to ask CCP".
Megafail. Its like sending a letter to Tokyo, and then getting angry London doesnt answer you.
Danalee figured it out, and addressed her questions to CCP, who are the only ones capable of answering them, and hopefully, she will get her answers.
Lucas, however, still doesnt get it. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3124
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 18:08:00 -
[2526] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Guy is still wondering why he gets no answer from CCP, when all he has done, is address them to everyone EXCEPT CCP, and when this was pointed out to him, he said to the effect of "No, I dont want to ask CCP".
Megafail. Its like sending a letter to Tokyo, and then getting angry London doesnt answer you.
Danalee figured it out, and addressed her questions to CCP, who are the only ones capable of answering them, and hopefully, she will get her answers.
Lucas, however, still doesnt get it. No, it's nothing like that at all. It's like writing on a forum for ALL to read and respond to, including, but not limited to, CCP. I'm not wondering why I don't get a response, you are coming to the conclusion in your head that I must be sitting here going "WHY NO CCP RESPOND?!". I'm not. I do however question why you continuously insult people while adding absolutely nothing to the discussion. I understand fully that you don't like me posting, and I don't care. I can and will continue to post and the more you cry about it the more I'll do so.
Now how about staying on topic for once? Big ask for you, I know. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1127
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 20:48:00 -
[2527] - Quote
This thread is temporarily closed to do some cleaning. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
4569
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 23:57:00 -
[2528] - Quote
Percival Rose wrote:Grief play (source) A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.
An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in the systems the Blood Stained Stars epic arc takes you through is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated. Where does CCP draw the line between a Griefer wardec and Grief Play? And will recent events change the way the rules are interpreted and/or enforced?
At no point in that sentence you quoted is the word "wardec" or anything approximating it used.
That'd be your answer. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 07:12:00 -
[2529] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:I had a well-written post drawn out over this, but I got rid of it. Needless to say, two of you are absolutely ******** when it comes to trying to debate anything.
CCP has the right to police their game and get involved. They have the right to ban you for any reason, or no reason. Wrap your head around that. All these claims about it being "a sandbox" and that CCP shouldn't police us "outside of the game" fail to understand a core concept: CCP is a company, and what matters is the bottom line. Ero1 created bad press for the company, like Mittens did last year at FanFest. Ripard did a story on it, and it went viral.
Ero1 is to blame for his own problems, because had he not attempted to mock Sohkar further by posting the SoundCloud recording, no one would give a damn.
Ero1 was not banned for scamming. He was banned for harassing the guy after the scam was complete by posting the guy's response on the forums. He was also banned because of the publicity it was attracting, and like it or not this game is in need of new blood. Yes, CCP has the right to ban whoever hey want, but we have the right to not like and protest that decision. Pretty much everyone here has complained about some decision or another in the direction the CCP have taken this game at various points. Even this situation itself. It didn't occur because a victim was hurt, it occurred because someone with a bunch of followers didn't like it and complained, even though CCP had previously seen it and let it pass. The problem a lot of us have here is they make no effort to explain where the new line is drawn or how they are going to enforce their new rule. From an outside perspective, this appears to have been that Erotica 1 got banned for not hiding the fact that the bonus rooms was taking place. If the same exact thing had happened but Erotica 1 hadn't posted it to the forum himself, action couldn't have been taken as there is no way for CCP to prove a third party recording to be real. So that leave a question of where does it go from here? Is the official rule now that if you want to harass someone you shouldn't post about it on the forum where your identity can be verified? Or are CCP going to take the benefit of the doubt approach and ban people with no verification of the evidence? I mean the second one could be fun. Whenever someone says something you don't like, just whip up a recording of a mate yelling at you calling themselves by your targets name and send it off to CCP with some tears. And Danalee has some good questions there. Since CCP stated they will read and respond to this thread, it will be interesting to see if and when they respond.
Lucas I just want you to know that I consider your discourse in this thread dishonest. I'll tell you why.
"It didn't occur because a victim was hurt..." - Fallacy and to sustain it you give examples of other similar instances in which CCP chose not to answer. While is beyond our ability to know exactly why CCP didn't act we can false pattern a reason and you prey on that.
"...it occurred because someone with a bunch of followers didn't like it and complained, even though CCP had previously seen it and let it pass." Argumentative opinion used to diminish the impact of the real problem, harassment.
"... even though CCP had previously seen it and let it pass." - Same pattern fallacy. Do you know at what extent the situation was known to CCP or you just assume that since it was public they were fully aware of the situation?
"Is the official rule now that if you want to harass someone you shouldn't post about it on the forum where your identity can be verified?" Dense on purpose question. Something like " If a crime is not known is it still a crime?" How about don't harass people by means other then the game provides you with ships, lazors, wardecs, contracts, bounties, scams (provided you want to gain in-game assets and not tears as those are not in-game assets) etc. Sometimes tears are just a bonus but you shouldn't be actively chasing for those.
"Or are CCP going to take the benefit of the doubt approach and ban people with no verification of the evidence?" This is just thrown in the mix w/o any efforts to sustain it. Just the tip of the s***.
I do agree with you though that the perma ban for Erotica seems harsh and that her virtual corpse is hanged at the boundaries to scare people off. But that is just opinion and I don't pretend I know all the previous interaction between CCP and Erotica since I assume they are considered "Classified information".
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
919
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 07:36:00 -
[2530] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:
As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement. However, if you have any questions regarding this statement, please feel free to pose them in this thread, and we will respond to the best of our ability. - The EVE Universe Community Team
Hello CCP Falcon,
For the quote above to be genuine, I (we)'d expect some answers to our concerns. So, I've got some questions and they've been popping up in this thread but remain unanswered still.
- Will CCP be enforcing the TOS/EULA on third party communication services, be they Teamspeak, mail, external blogs or forums? - To what extend will the TOS/EULA be applied to third party communication services? ex.: Is racism OK when enticed by your interlocutor? - Can we be banned for having an out of game interaction with someone which is later deemed "bad" by a third party? - Does it matter the third party in the above question is a member of the CSM? - Will the logs show something now when we put in a petition for harassement through out of game means? - When someone feels very bad about the threat of loosing his/her ship or some other ingame happenings, are we now obligated to leave them be? - If at any time a player strays from the path envisioned by you, has there and will there be any from of interaction between you and the player or will the resulting perma ban for breaking unwritten rules be administered without any form of communication?
I'm sure there are more concerns but these are my main ones, a prompt reply would be very much appreciated since this whole debacle has put a dampner on the enjoyment I (and others with me) get from the unique experience you've provided up untill now. In any case, clarity would go a long way in putting our minds at ease.
Thanks upfront!
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3127
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 09:12:00 -
[2531] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:"It didn't occur because a victim was hurt..." - Fallacy and to sustain it you give examples of other similar instances in which CCP chose not to answer. While is beyond our ability to know exactly why CCP didn't act we can false pattern a reason and you prey on that. How is that a fallacy? The victim himself has stated that he never petitioned it and that he doesn't think Erotica 1 should be (then later should have been) banned. he has spoken about this many times. Previous players that have petitioned have been told explicitly that anything occurring outside of the EVE client or forums is not something CCP can deal with and should be reported to the local authorities. This is even written in the ToS as well as in several pieces of leaked GM communication. So in this case, it's pretty clear that the only reason this was dealt with is because it was thrust into publicity by a CSM.
Loko Crackhead wrote:"...it occurred because someone with a bunch of followers didn't like it and complained, even though CCP had previously seen it and let it pass." Argumentative opinion used to diminish the impact of the real problem, harassment. So why didn't CCP deal with it a month before when it was complained about by a handful of people on the forums? Or one of the many other cases that were dealt with. In fact, when CCP restored the SP to a previous bonus room contestant because he claimed his brother did it, why didn't they ban Erotica 1 then? It seems like a bit of a coincidence that they suddenly decide to deal with it when a bunch of people start making a 400 page thread and Teg starts pushing articles to gaming websites.
Loko Crackhead wrote:"... even though CCP had previously seen it and let it pass." - Same pattern fallacy. Do you know at what extent the situation was known to CCP or you just assume that since it was public they were fully aware of the situation? Yes, I am. Not only has this been posted in threads which have been moderated, previous examples have had devs in the thread as well as GM action taken. This is why you need to look at these things from all angles, not just a single recording on it's own. It's not hard to do the research and get a full picture of what has been occurring.
Loko Crackhead wrote:"Is the official rule now that if you want to harass someone you shouldn't post about it on the forum where your identity can be verified?" Dense on purpose question. Something like " If a crime is not known is it still a crime?" How about don't harass people by means other then the game provides you with ships, lazors, wardecs, contracts, bounties, scams (provided you want to gain in-game assets and not tears as those are not in-game assets) etc. Sometimes tears are just a bonus but you shouldn't be actively chasing for those.
"Or are CCP going to take the benefit of the doubt approach and ban people with no verification of the evidence?" This is just thrown in the mix w/o any efforts to sustain it. Just the tip of the s***. These go together. If the ruling now is "don't abuse people on third party comms", they have no way of knowing if it's really us. If I made a recording of a mate of mine claiming to be you abusing me, they have no way to prove or disprove it's authenticity. This mean they can go 1 of two ways. They can either ignore it, (meaning if it was real you get away with it), or they ban you, meaning I can now play the system. The stance they always have taken is that if it occurs out of game it's not their issue precisely for this reason. It's impossible to prove or disprove something that occurred on someone else's teamspeak server.
So overall that tells me that the only thing that got Erotica 1 banned was that CCP have conclusive proof via his posting on the forum that it was in fact him doing the recording. So if people avoid that, they can be as abusive as they want. So the banning does nothing for the situation, it just gets rid of a few accounts and put's loads of question marks around where the jurisdiction of CCP will end.
Loko Crackhead wrote:I do agree with you though that the perma ban for Erotica seems harsh and that her virtual corpse is hanged at the boundaries to scare people off. EDIT - I assume the perma attribute is due to the bad publicity - EDIT But that is just opinion and I don't pretend I know all the previous interaction between CCP and Erotica since I assume they are considered "Classified information". I don't particularly care about the extent of the banning, and to be honest don't really care about the banning specifically at all (and there's nearly no chance that Erotica 1 isn't already playing again on a fresh account). This is about the decisions CCP make and the way those decisions affect how people act going forward. People who want to abuse people to extremes will be able to as long as they don't tie themselves to the game through auditable means, but people who don;t means to harass or abuse and just have a little fun (like eve-radio DJs and people like NOHO and their singing ransoms) will have to watch their backs as they don't go out of their way to hide.
EDIT: Oh and as for the "classified information", Erotica 1 is perma banned. While we can't discuss the ins and outs openly here, there's nothing keeping that information classified anymore since E1 has no legal obligation to keep it quiet. If you look in the right places you can find all of the information you need. Again though, you need to actually look beyond the single recording and get a full view of what has been going on. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Theo Sotken
Mother Knows Best Corporation
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 10:30:00 -
[2532] - Quote
I've just been redirected here by CCP Falcon. Out of curiousity what has this to do with Burn Jita 2014?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4428589#post4428589
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
919
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 10:39:00 -
[2533] - Quote
Haha, nothing really. Well, while you are here, you can post whatever questions you have and wait for someone to come along and delete them. Afterall, that's what forums are for
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Theo Sotken
Mother Knows Best Corporation
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 11:03:00 -
[2534] - Quote
Thx Danalee but since I was directed here from the Locked Burn Jita 2014 post by CCPI thought I'd have to ask.
But to answer my own question Burn Jita has nothing to do with Erotica 1 and CCP shouldn't be closing down legitimate threads about big ingame events and comparing redirecting to this thread.
Burn Jita 2014 First Post 'Will it happen?'
.....
Last Post 'Creating threads that skirt around an issue without mentioning it directly won't protect them from being locked.
If you want to discuss, do so here and stop trying to bend the forum rules.
Locked.' |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 12:10:00 -
[2535] - Quote
@ Lucas
1. You admit there is a victim. That's good. Victim's opinion on the matter is biased. He may be suffering the "Stockholm Syndrome" or he may just try to damage control the situation. His statement that he wasn't abused is biased and if we are to consider this as an option he should bear full responsibility for what he said in the bonus room recording. Society is full of bias and how CCP tries to balance that bias with the freedom in game is their prerogative. I'm saying this in the hope you'll try to understand previous behavior of CCP in resembling cases.
2. I will not pretend to know why they didn't acted earlier. I can speculate that CCP employees that were responsible dealing with this kind of stuff were just trying to keep things in balance away from the public eye. I'm sure they communicated privately with the involved parties but I doubt we will ever find out anything more then tempered with information (fragmented and pulled out of context). When you paint a picture with provided colors the color of your picture is not that hard to predict.
3. Precisely, that's why they used a recording posted by "me" where "I" claim "I'm" abusing "you" as evidence. OK OK not claimed but you get the drift as you seem a fairly intelligent individual.
4. You may have a gold one here that elucidates for you why it is only Erotica got banned and the rest was shaved under the carpet. That plus bad publicity steamed from the event. But I'm not going to test your theory of "be as abusive as you want" hoping I'll avoid proper identification. As someone already pointed they can ban you for the sky being blue so I'm sure they'll ban one account if it starts looking like bad press. Is this fair? Probably not from the banned guy perspective.
5. This tear extraction tradition people are talking about, I never fully understood that. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good cup of unexpected tears but to pursue it as a enjoyment factor sound like an unhealthy addiction. I think the scarcity of tears make them so much more precious to me . And keep in mind that we are not sheep to have a fence surrounding our space but we do have to understand the concept of "too far". Think about it the way how "violence incitement speech" is not protected under the "free speech" rule. Stop asking for the bloody fence.
Already told you I'm not in listening people's crap served as truth cookies so stop with the "you don't see the whole picture" argument. Fact remains that I find the initial recording distasteful (understatement of my posting history) and that constitutes good enough reason for me to form an opinion. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3130
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 13:21:00 -
[2536] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:1. You admit there is a victim. That's good. Victim's opinion on the matter is biased. He may be suffering the "Stockholm Syndrome" or he may just try to damage control the situation. His statement that he wasn't abused is biased and if we are to consider this as an option he should bear full responsibility for what he said in the bonus room recording. Society is full of bias and how CCP tries to balance that bias with the freedom in game is their prerogative. I'm saying this in the hope you'll try to understand previous behavior of CCP in resembling cases. No, just no. You can't simply state that the victim has no right to an opinion on this matter and that even though he didn't even raise it we must take action. That's absolutely moronic.
Loko Crackhead wrote:2. I will not pretend to know why they didn't acted earlier. I can speculate that CCP employees that were responsible dealing with this kind of stuff were just trying to keep things in balance away from the public eye. I'm sure they communicated privately with the involved parties but I doubt we will ever find out anything more then tempered with information (fragmented and pulled out of context). When you paint a picture with provided colors the color of your picture is not that hard to predict. Oh come on, how can you not see why. It's exactly the same as every other time CCP have suddenly reacted, it's to stem bad publicity nothing more. And no, they didn't speak to the people involved. Neither Erotica 1 or Sohkar had any contact with CCP prior to this. But I know, all lies right?
Loko Crackhead wrote:3. Precisely, that's why they used a recording posted by "me" where "I" claim "I'm" abusing "you" as evidence. OK OK not claimed but you get the drift as you seem a fairly intelligent individual. It was posted by Erotica 1 the time before, and so were all of the others. Nothing is different between the times CCP have dealt with these before and this one case, except in this case no ticket was raised, whereas previously tickets were raised and closed.
Loko Crackhead wrote:4. You may have a gold one here that elucidates for you why it is only Erotica got banned and the rest was shaved under the carpet. That plus bad publicity steamed from the event. But I'm not going to test your theory of "be as abusive as you want" hoping I'll avoid proper identification. As someone already pointed they can ban you for the sky being blue so I'm sure they'll ban one account if it starts looking like bad press. Is this fair? Probably not from the banned guy perspective. It's not fair from any perspective. Basically that is saying that you can get banned if someone drums up bad press about you, regardless of what you did or if you even did anything. An you are OK with that? CCP may be able to ban for whatever they want, but they have a duty to be fair to their customers.
Loko Crackhead wrote:5. This tear extraction tradition people are talking about, I never fully understood that. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good cup of unexpected tears but to pursue it as a enjoyment factor sound like an unhealthy addiction. I think the scarcity of tears make them so much more precious to me . And keep in mind that we are not sheep to have a fence surrounding our space but we do have to understand the concept of "too far". Think about it the way how "violence incitement speech" is not protected under the "free speech" rule. Stop asking for the bloody fence. Already told you I'm not in listening people's crap served as truth cookies so stop with the "you don't see the whole picture" argument. Fact remains that I find the initial recording distasteful (understatement of my posting history) and that constitutes good enough reason for me to form an opinion. People have a right to know how far outside of EVE CCP are going to enforce their rules, and how low the bar is going to be set. You say we understand what is "too far", but that is subjective. Everyone's limit is different. If I call someone a **** on twitter as a joke and he flies off the handle and starts screaming, should I get banned? At the same time if I hurl racial abuse at someone and he takes it on the chin, should I get a pass? This is a game with people from different cultures and backgrounds, so saying "just use your common sense" doesn't work, especially since we don't know how far out of the game CCP are considering their jurisdiction.
And if you refuse to take on board any other material then go right ahead, but nothing you say will mean even a small amount to me, since you have such a blinkered view. To give you an idea, here's a direct quote of you: "be as abusive as you want". That was in your post, right? So if I took just that on it's own and refused to look at anything around it, that doesn't look great. Making a judgement off of a single snippet of information is stupid. Refusing to find out anything about the background, prior and follow up conversations and the testimonies of the individuals involved is no less stupid. I have no interest in listening to people who are unwilling to even learn the basic facts of a situation before making a judgement. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
861
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 14:36:00 -
[2537] - Quote
Subjecting yourself to harassment and willingly remaining makes it an S&M session and no longer harassment.
Sohkar should have used the teamspeak disconnect button as his 'safe word', instead of 'n**ger'.
Also, as mentioned several times, even Sohkar himself now confirms he doesn't think real world harassment took place. People need to learn all the facts before soapboxing and projecting their own past life bullying angst onto other people, as they rush to the barricades in a witch hunt to assuage personal demons.
What's despicable is Ripard Teg refused to answer Sohkars emails, and ginned up this witch hunt despite Sohkar clearly saying it wasn't harassment. The lemmings that now follow without becoming aware of these facts are being willfully ignorant and just as despicable.
F Would you like to know more? |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
796
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 15:25:00 -
[2538] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Subjecting yourself to harassment and willingly remaining makes it an S&M session and no longer harassment. I don't think this is true. What matters most here is intent.
What is Erotica 1's intent? That one victim doesn't consider his behavior sadistic does not lessen the intent of the aggressor. As an example, a murderer kills 10 people in exactly the same way. One victim was already suicidal and didn't mind being killed. Does this mean the killer only committed 9 murders?
Also, this wasn't the first time that he had done this. And if I was a betting man I'd bet he had been warned before about crossing the line. I found out about this last incident through Ripard Teg. So as much as a few of you have been hating on him, I'm actually impressed he had the balls to stand up and expose this to light. Mind you, I had no idea who he was before this.
DISCLAIMER FOR THE TARDS: No, I am not in ANY WAY insinuating Erotica 1 is a murderer. I will ignore any post accusing me of such claims. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3131
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 15:57:00 -
[2539] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:I don't think this is true. What matters most here is intent.
What is Erotica 1's intent? That one victim doesn't consider his behavior sadistic does not lessen the intent of the aggressor. As an example, a murderer kills 10 people in exactly the same way. One victim was already suicidal and didn't mind being killed. Does this mean the killer only committed 9 murders? Of course not, but then he wasn't convicted of any. He in fact did all of this publicly and we can verify that on at least a few occasions, particularly the worst, CCP were aware and let it slide. The action was taken after just this last case, in which the victim has stated multiple times his opinion. How is ignoring the victim good for him? And the action was only taken after a public hate campaign from a CSM member, which clearly means he isn't being punished for what he did, he's being punished to put out the fire that Ripard started. So is that the precedent we want to support CCP setting? That if someone makes a witch hunt public enough that CCP will buckle to it?
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Also, this wasn't the first time that he had done this. And if I was a betting man I'd bet he had been warned before about crossing the line. I found out about this last incident through Ripard Teg. So as much as a few of you have been hating on him, I'm actually impressed he had the balls to stand up and expose this to light. Mind you, I had no idea who he was before this. Then you would lose money. No warning was ever given out because no rules were ever broken. People chose to go on the bonus room TS and could at any point choose to leave. This isn't even the first time the forum has been up in arms about it, and I was even against Erotica 1 last time. But the point then was to change the rules to more effectively combat harassment evolving from the game. What it wasn't for was to retroactively ban someone on the whim of a CSM member, set a precedent for publicly attacking someone in the future, ignore the needs of the victim and add more grey areas to the rules.
They should be saying "there is the line, do not cross it", but what they are saying is "there is a line and it's arbitrarily chosen by us depending on how much flak we think we'll get for not banning you". I mean hell, at this point we don't know whether eve-radio can run signing or dare competitions, and don't even know if something we tweet on twitter will land us in the ban zone. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2183
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 17:26:00 -
[2540] - Quote
Ever decreasing circles... This is not a signature. |
|
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
694
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 17:57:00 -
[2541] - Quote
My video take on the Erotica 1 issue. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3318
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 18:26:00 -
[2542] - Quote
http://eatingoffthepeoplesprincess.tumblr.com/ *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3132
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 18:54:00 -
[2543] - Quote
Firstly, that's a really long winded way of saying "CCP banned Erotica 1 for not hiding what some people would describe as harassment". So we can abuse people as much as we want as long as we hide it, right?
Secondly, I have to ask, you quote CCP as stating their side including stating forums like failheap challenge, etc. Where is that quote from CCP?
Thirdly, you personally attack Danalee in your video. I consider that to be harassment, which you have posted thus it's verifiable. Following your own ideals, you should be banned, correct? Danalee should definitely petitions that.
Also, people don't keep asking "is the situation different if it's a CSM", what we are asking is that is it only when a CSM raises this publicly that it gets dealt with. Even just wit h Erotica 1, previously verifiable evidence has been posted before, but action has never been taken. I know people that have been personally attacked and told to basically **** off by CCP in the past. So the only difference here is it's Ripard starting the hate campaign.
Finally, Erotica 1 wasn't intending to harass. Intending to generate some entertainment for his mates at the expense of an idiot, sure, but that's no more harassment than bumping a freighter for hours or ganking loads of miners. And listen to FunkyBacon. He not only got people to sing live on eve-radio, he got a guy to pour hot bacon fat on his nipples and the guy ended up in hospital. Hell, on one of the eve-radio competitions (not FunkyBacon afaik) a guy taped himself between 2 truck to wax his chest by driving one away, separated his sternum from his ribs and ended up in hospital for a while too.
I mean let's be real here. Most of us have heard far worse than Erotica 1's bonus room. Asking a guy to read a bunch of stuff and sing until he either explodes or leaves, his choice which. Comparing that to torture is beyond dumb. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5203
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:09:00 -
[2544] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Rabble, blather, confusion.
It's like you only read or listen to something for the sole purpose of completely misunderstanding the most basic things every freaking thing being said.
That takes some talent.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:13:00 -
[2545] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:That's absolutely moronic.
If you show me where I said the victim can have an opinion I'll give you all my EVE assets. Of course he has an opinion but that to me is irrelevant and I have already explained why.
Lucas Kell wrote:Oh come on, how can you not see why. It's exactly the same as every other time CCP have suddenly reacted, it's to stem bad publicity nothing more. And no, they didn't speak to the people involved. Neither Erotica 1 or Sohkar had any contact with CCP prior to this. But I know, all lies right?
Well, if that's correct, I guess they, like my self, don't have time to listen to bullshit. If I have the perpetrator's confession no real reason to waste resources investigating non-sense
Lucas Kell wrote:It was posted by Erotica 1 the time before, and so were all of the others. Nothing is different between the times CCP have dealt with these before and this one case, except in this case no ticket was raised, whereas previously tickets were raised and closed.
Your point being? Maybe they weren't sure about the validity of the raised claims? Or the CCP guy in charge in judging those was just a moron? Are you arguing that there is nothing wrong with the interaction that took place in the bonus room and the decision is motivated entirely on bad publicity?
Lucas Kell wrote:It's not fair from any perspective. Basically that is saying that you can get banned if someone drums up bad press about you, regardless of what you did or if you even did anything. An you are OK with that? CCP may be able to ban for whatever they want, but they have a duty to be fair to their customers.
Again you seem to argue that what we hear on that recording is not bad we are all just imagining things. Not going to go down that route, sorry.
Lucas Kell wrote:People have a right to know how far outside of EVE CCP are going to enforce their rules, and how low the bar is going to be set. You say we understand what is "too far", but that is subjective. Everyone's limit is different. If I call someone a **** on twitter as a joke and he flies off the handle and starts screaming, should I get banned? At the same time if I hurl racial abuse at someone and he takes it on the chin, should I get a pass? This is a game with people from different cultures and backgrounds, so saying "just use your common sense" doesn't work, especially since we don't know how far out of the game CCP are considering their jurisdiction.
And if you refuse to take on board any other material then go right ahead, but nothing you say will mean even a small amount to me, since you have such a blinkered view. To give you an idea, here's a direct quote of you: "be as abusive as you want". That was in your post, right? So if I took just that on it's own and refused to look at anything around it, that doesn't look great. Making a judgement off of a single snippet of information is stupid. Refusing to find out anything about the background, prior and follow up conversations and the testimonies of the individuals involved is no less stupid. I have no interest in listening to people who are unwilling to even learn the basic facts of a situation before making a judgement.
You are trying a last pathetic plea. "We are dumb CCP, please tell us how we should behave because we are morons that don't have empathy or social skills. It's not fair you banning us because we are stupid." Whaa whaa whaa. Racial abuse is wrong and stupid beyond reasonable doubt and if Shokar keeps this "There was no abuse taking place" CCP should ban him and pardon Erotica. Kidding we both know Shokar talks out of his ass.
I thought we are beyond straw man arguments. If I was in a position to calculate a quantum of punishment for the "crime" I would have looked deeper into the problem. That's why the jury decides between guilty or not guilty and the judge dishes out the punishment. I'm of the jury . If nothing I say will mean anything to you please refrain from replying.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3132
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:33:00 -
[2546] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:If you show me where I said the victim can have an opinion I'll give you all my EVE assets. Of course he has an opinion but that to me is irrelevant and I have already explained why. OK, so the quote in this post directly above this line. When you state that his opinions is irrelevant that's the same damn thing.
Loko Crackhead wrote:Well, if that's correct, I guess they, like my self, don't have time to listen to bullshit. If I have the perpetrator's confession no real reason to waste resources investigating non-sense
Your point being? Maybe they weren't sure about the validity of the raised claims? Or the CCP guy in charge in judging those was just a moron? Are you arguing that there is nothing wrong with the interaction that took place in the bonus room and the decision is motivated entirely on bad publicity? Why was it nonsense when it was posted all those times before? I'm not stating that there was nothing wrong, though from my point of view there was nothing I would consider harassment. But more to the point I have hear FAR FAR worse things that were then ignored by CCP. Not to mention that this EXACT thing has been going on for at least a year. They reacted due to publicity, yes. Pretty much voids their whole HTFU video idea.
Loko Crackhead wrote:Again you seem to argue that what we hear on that recording is not bad we are all just imagining things. Not going to go down that route, sorry. I'm not stating that, but I certainly think in context it's not harassment. That recording standing alone shows far worse behaviour on the part of sohkar than Erotica 1. Or do you think racism is OK?
Loko Crackhead wrote:You are trying a last pathetic plea. "We are dumb CCP, please tell us how we should behave because we are morons that don't have empathy or social skills. It's not fair you banning us because we are stupid." Whaa whaa whaa. Racial abuse is wrong and stupid beyond reasonable doubt and if Shokar keeps this "There was no abuse taking place" CCP should ban him and pardon Erotica. Kidding we both know Shokar talks out of his ass. Stop purpoosely being a ******. CCP have not stated where or how far their rules are being enforced. Do you not see that there is a clear difference between what person A thinks is harassment and person B? So who is right? CCP have a duty to draw the line. Oh wait, I forgot, we're all supposed to know exactly where too far is, despite cultural, linguistic and age barriers right?
Loko Crackhead wrote:I thought we are beyond straw man arguments. If I was in a position to calculate a quantum of punishment for the "crime" I would have looked deeper into the problem. That's why the jury decides between guilty or not guilty and the judge dishes out the punishment. I'm of the jury . If nothing I say will mean anything to you please refrain from replying. And back to the FOTM "waaah, it's a strawman". Not, it's a perfectly reasonable argument. You disagree, and that's fine, but that doesn't make what is being said irrelevant. I get it though, you hate scammers since you've probably had some super sad from them at some point and this is your way of standing up to them. So **** the sandbox because Loco doesn't like it people. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3132
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:35:00 -
[2547] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Rabble, blather, confusion. It's like you only read or listen to something for the sole purpose of completely misunderstanding the most basic things every freaking thing being said. That takes some talent. Mr Epeen Did you listen to it? He states quite clearly that CCP have a "no third party comms" rule, then he clearly states that this was different because Erotica 1 posted it himself.
To be honest, since it's you, I think I'll just assume it was a troll attempt and move on. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 20:09:00 -
[2548] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Stop purpoosely being a ******. CCP have not stated where or how far their rules are being enforced. Do you not see that there is a clear difference between what person A thinks is harassment and person B? So who is right? CCP have a duty to draw the line. Oh wait, I forgot, we're all supposed to know exactly where too far is, despite cultural, linguistic and age barriers right?.
This is you saying "Screw the sandbox I want fences." Since is neigh impossible to draw a line on this type of thing, and you know it(you even said why) I prefer it not to be drawn. I want the game as it is and I want CCP to use their discretionary powers to route out the sociopaths that play this for the wrong reasons and are causing unnecessary distress. And I'm smarter then your Erotica because at first "ni**er" I would have said " Sorry buddy, you lost", would have closed the coms and kept my account.
Lucas Kell wrote:And back to the FOTM "waaah, it's a strawman". Not, it's a perfectly reasonable argument. You disagree, and that's fine, but that doesn't make what is being said irrelevant. I get it though, you hate scammers since you've probably had some super sad from them at some point and this is your way of standing up to them. So **** the sandbox because Loco doesn't like it people.
I call it as I see it buddy. Cropping five words out of a sentence and claiming they lost context is not the same as calling the recording of an entire event as out of context. And it doesn't matter if you believe me or not, my only time I got scammed was through a contract I failed to read because I was tired and stupid. I didn't file a ticket i just face palmed and said to myself "Go to sleep stupid". Did put the scammer in my -10 sh** list hoping that at same point I'll violent him a bit though. Stop trying to bait me with this childish tactics. I like the sandbox very much and my wallet is proof of that but guess why the sand is in a box and not on the frikkin' floor? So stupid people don't spread the sand too thin. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3327
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 20:11:00 -
[2549] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLumK87nGxE *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 20:27:00 -
[2550] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLumK87nGxE
Thank you for slapping me out of it.
Hey, weren't you the one being disappointed in people leaving the argument ?
|
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3335
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 20:33:00 -
[2551] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLumK87nGxE Thank you for slapping me out of it. Hey, weren't you the one being disappointed in people leaving the argument ?
Anslo has taught me to be chill
So I try to be cool.
Everybody be cool. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Salvos Rhoska
1034
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 21:08:00 -
[2552] - Quote
Is the guy in the vid Lucas?
Looks like him.
PS: I'm frosty. ------------ |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
695
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 21:38:00 -
[2553] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Firstly, that's a really long winded way of saying "CCP banned Erotica 1 for not hiding what some people would describe as harassment". So we can abuse people as much as we want as long as we hide it, right? Secondly, I have to ask, you quote CCP as stating their side including stating forums like failheap challenge, etc. Where is that quote from CCP? Thirdly, you personally attack Danalee in your video. I consider that to be harassment, which you have posted thus it's verifiable. Following your own ideals, you should be banned, correct? Danalee should definitely petitions that. Also, people don't keep asking "is the situation different if it's a CSM", what we are asking is that is it only when a CSM raises this publicly that it gets dealt with. Even just wit h Erotica 1, previously verifiable evidence has been posted before, but action has never been taken. I know people that have been personally attacked and told to basically **** off by CCP in the past. So the only difference here is it's Ripard starting the hate campaign. Finally, Erotica 1 wasn't intending to harass. Intending to generate some entertainment for his mates at the expense of an idiot, sure, but that's no more harassment than bumping a freighter for hours or ganking loads of miners. And listen to FunkyBacon. He not only got people to sing live on eve-radio, he got a guy to pour hot bacon fat on his nipples and the guy ended up in hospital. Hell, on one of the eve-radio competitions (not FunkyBacon afaik) a guy taped himself between 2 trucks to wax his chest by driving one away, separated his sternum from his ribs and ended up in hospital for a while too. I mean let's be real here. Most of us have heard far worse than Erotica 1's bonus room. Asking a guy to read a bunch of stuff and sing until he either explodes or leaves, his choice which. Comparing that to torture is beyond dumb.
1.) The reason Ero1 was banned was because he gloated over it. Tear-extraction might be commonplace in the game, but it remains in the game. Ero1 decided to take the extraction to TeamSpeak and record it for later, and then published it to the forums. Try as you might to say that he was banned for not hiding it, he was actually banned for continuing it, even if Sohkar says it wasn't harassment. Look at the players in this game: very few will actually say "oh, I was harassed". It rarely happens because of our mentality. Any normal and sane person would look at that and say it's harassment. Once someone has hit the point where they are threatening violence against you, you've hit their breaking point. At that point, conitnuing is not extracting tears, it is simply continuing to be a prick.
Note: I believe that at this point Sohkar is beginning to realize he is being scammed, and should have left. He didn't, and so there he is partially responsible.
2.) I stated that CCP has the right to react to any publicity on third-party sites, including forums and gave Battleclinic and FHC as examples. I never stated CCP owned them, and I never attributed a quote to CCP as saying they owned them. CCP owns your account. They always have and they always will. If you use that ccount to cause problems for the company, and they can validate it was your account, they have the right to suspend you, or ban you outright. That was my point, and you know that.
3.) The person I mentioned has had multiple posts deleted in this thread alone, and has widely been viewed as a troll. He even stated that he was trolling in a post that was deleted. That is not a "personal attack", that is using what he said to illustrate a point. If CCP views taking what someone said and using it to illustrate a point--and using it in context--as a personal attack, then they can feel free to suspend or ban me. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
4.) There has been a very vocal portion of the Ero1 defenders who have stated that they want Ripard Teg banned. Constantly asking if anything is changed when it comes to the CSM is pretty much asking at what level they are held, and they another attempt to rules lawyer to have him banned for "bullying" Ero1.
Note: The people saying that Ripard Teg is guilty of bullying because his blog post was picked up by other publications are being intentionally obtuse. No one knows if Ripard made Massively aware of the posting; he's a well-known blogger, and so to claim that he should have known that it would be also falls flat on its face. I have had multiple stories published in which I use sources such as blog postings that are brought to my attention by third parties, and in fact I'd remind you the orinal threadnaught was not started by Ripard Teg, but by another person. Saying that because Massively, or MMO-Champion published his posting he is guilty of bullying when he was no the one to post anything to them is so far out of left field it should not be considered worthy of any more time.
5.) If he wasn't intending to harass SOhkar, then why did he do it over Teamspeak instead of the EvE Voice server? More importantly, wy did he feel the need to even post the recording to the forums?
6.) These anecdotes you bring up, I'd like recordings to because I'd most certainly do commentary on them, and I'm sure Ripard would be just as upset over them. If you aren't willing to do that, then feel free to not mention it again. More to the point, if it bothers you that much why not bring it to CCP's attention?
Whether or not someone has said or heard worse does not absolve Ero1 of what he did. That's basic legal precedent. More to the point--and I hate to Godwin this--just becuse ****** killed at a minimum 10-million civilians does not absolve Stalin of his murder of civilians. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3137
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 21:56:00 -
[2554] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:This is you saying "Screw the sandbox I want fences." Since is neigh impossible to draw a line on this type of thing, and you know it(you even said why) I prefer it not to be drawn. I want the game as it is and I want CCP to use their discretionary powers to route out the sociopaths that play this for the wrong reasons and are causing unnecessary distress. And I'm smarter then your Erotica because at first "ni**er" I would have said " Sorry buddy, you lost", would have closed the coms and kept my account. It's impossible to draw a hard line, yes, but it's most certainly not impossible to draw more of a line than they have. The way it's currently worded, if someone looks to be getting upset, you must stop immediately. That's a pretty fuzzy line.
And I want the game as it was, as it should be, where if someone sheds some tears because they were dumbass, CCP says HTFU and moves on, like they did. What I don't want is the knowledge that some asshat with an agenda can swoop in and make a spectacle of a situation forcing CCPs hand. Erotica 1's bechaviour was not even close to the worst I've seen CCP let slide.
Loko Crackhead wrote:I call it as I see it buddy. Cropping five words out of a sentence and claiming they lost context is not the same as calling the recording of an entire event as out of context. And it doesn't matter if you believe me or not, my only time I got scammed was through a contract I failed to read because I was tired and stupid. I didn't file a ticket i just face palmed and said to myself "Go to sleep stupid". Did put the scammer in my -10 sh** list hoping that at same point I'll violent him a bit though. Stop trying to bait me with this childish tactics. I like the sandbox very much and my wallet is proof of that but guess why the sand is in a box and not on the frikkin' floor? So stupid people don't spread the sand too thin. Yes, it's the same thing. You aren't willing to take on board the entire situation, you have a sound byte and that's all you are referring to. From what you are listening to, there's absolutely zero in game components, so how is it CCPs business?
And it's clear from the way you are diving on board with this NUKE SCAMMERS attitude without even taking in the whole situation that you are butthurt about something. You are like "this part right here lets me spout off, so this is the only piece of info I need". Yeah, forget things like all the surrounding facts, the testimonies of the people around it, the text chat that went along side it, forget all of that because the sound clip give you enough for you to stamp your feet and cry.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
695
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 22:05:00 -
[2555] - Quote
Are you now claiming that Ero1 didn't pick Sohkar out in-game in order to scam him, and that he did not post it to CCP's forums at the end of it? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3137
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 22:22:00 -
[2556] - Quote
1. But do you or do you not agree that if he had continued as he did, but then NOT posted it anywhere under his name that he wouldn't have received a ban?
2. Sorry, I think you misunderstood. I didn't say you said they owned them, I said you referenced them when mentioning CCPs response. One of the issues a lot of us have with the response is that it's non specific as to what third party mediums are covered, so people are unsure if they have to watch how they respond on twitter, facebook and the like. Comments on blogs or news sites are another questionable area for example. From you specifically mentioning those sites I got the impression you'd read something where CCP specifically mentions them. Anywhere outside of EVE, a person using your name is not necessarily you, so it seems strange that places like BC of FHC would be within their reach.
3. If you'd just called him a troll, I'd agree with you, but you didn't. You attacked him personally.
4. There certainly is a group that call for that, I'm one of them, since I believe he was way out of line for a CSM member. He started a public hate campaign when clearly what he should have done was speak to CCP internally. But that's not really the main issue there, the main issue is that CCP responded to the hat campaign. What happens next time a CSM doesn't like someone and decides to rally some community members to kick them from the game? Whether he posted it to massively or not doesn't really matter. He's in a position of power and he abused that when he specifically named an individual as a target. Nobody in Erotica 1's position would have stood a chance, regardless of what had really happened. His fate was decided the moment Ripard made the post. I mean just look at Loko, like a lot of people he doesn't care about surrounding facts, he cares about a single piece of audio, which features a host of people, not just Erotica 1, running a bonus room.
5. Nobody uses EVE Voice. I still assume it's not even implemented :D But think about it. Erotica 1 is not a dumbass. If his intention was to harass, like to actually harass as in against the rules harass, he'd not have posted it. Clearly he thought like the hundreds of other bonus rooms they've done (some of which they've paid out I'll add) it was a bit of fun. Sure, it may have run it's course then continued a little longer than it should, but Sohkar had just as much responsibility to end it as Erotica 1 did, something he's acknowledged.
6. Sure, listen to DJ FunkyBacon - http://funkybacon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/e1sohkar-getting-full-story-in-35-hours.html A lot of things are covered there, as DJ FunkyBacon takes the time to get as many people that were actually involved, including Sohkar and Erotica 1, onto the recording which was live on eve-radio at the time. Ripard declined to join but was invited several times. It's long, 3 and a half hours, but if you are interested in hearing it from all angles, listen to the lot.
Anya Klibor wrote:Whether or not someone has said or heard worse does not absolve Ero1 of what he did. That's basic legal precedent. More to the point--and I hate to Godwin this--just becuse ****** killed at a minimum 10-million civilians does not absolve Stalin of his murder of civilians. Of course it doesn't and if CCP decided themselves that wrong was done, then that's fine. But you have to ask why previous infractions have gone unpunished. What made this particular instance (expecially considering I've heard worse bonus room recording from Erotica 1, which CCP closed the tickets for) so bad? Why was this one followed though? The only difference I can see with this one is a CSM member with a grudge and a threadnaught that followed. If that's what gets things done I worry for the future as it will just become a popularity ***** fight. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3137
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 22:25:00 -
[2557] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Are you now claiming that Ero1 didn't pick Sohkar out in-game in order to scam him, and that he did not post it to CCP's forums at the end of it? Of course not. My point was to highlight the problems of picking only a single source and basing all of your judgement off of that. Obviously in game things happened before, during and after, but Loko want to ignore all that as supposedly what happened, and what the victim thinks is irrelevant. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 23:19:00 -
[2558] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: And it's clear from the way you are diving on board with this NUKE SCAMMERS attitude without even taking in the whole situation that you are butthurt about something. You are like "this part right here lets me spout off, so this is the only piece of info I need". Yeah, forget things like all the surrounding facts, the testimonies of the people around it, the text chat that went along side it, forget all of that because the sound clip give you enough for you to stamp your feet and cry.
Yes buddy, I'm butthurt but that's because of hemorrhoids. I stamp my feet and cry? Really? You need to go to sleep stupid, yes I'm talking with you .
o7 |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
696
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 00:47:00 -
[2559] - Quote
1.) I will stipulate to that. Had he not posted it using his character's name, there would have been nothing more than a bit of outrage at the level of harassment (it is harassment; much of what all we do in this game is just that in form or another), and Ripard would have pointed to it as a bullying problem endemic to the game. No names, no characters involved. It might have gotten some bad press because of it, but other than that nothing would have happened. I'm not going to rehash the same old argument I've made and backed up about why Ero1 was a dumbass for posting it.
2.) Once again, they are saying that if they can prove who it is that did the harassment, they will act. Just because I post a recording of someone saying the most vile things and claim it's Lucas Kell doesn't mean it is: it's easily doctored and CCP knows this. You keep making this excuse that they can't prove anything, and ninety percent of the time you'd be absolutely right on the money! They generally will not act if they can't prove it without a reasonable doubt. Every company is like this (Blizzard Entertainment, Trion, etc.).
3.) I called him a troll, and I said "nine-times-out-of-ten he pops in and posts something that is stupid as hell". If that is harassment to you, I urge you to report my post to CCP and let them decide. Once again, he had posts deleted for trolling and spammin, so it's validated on these forums.
4.) Malcanis disagreed with him. So, why didn't that balance out and stop the ban from happening? Did Ripard actively engage in promoting his work to outside sources? Since when is a member of the CSM not allowed to voice his opinion on non-NDA material? You have to be able to answer that before you can say definitively that he is guilty of the same actions Erotica 1 was banned for.
The same claims were made when Mittens had his little wizard hat moment at FanFest, that CCP overstepped their bounds when they removed him from the CSM and what-not. It was claimed that the people who were most vocal were guilty of cyber-bullying and thus should be punished. CCP didn't listen to that argument then, and I don't think they'll listen to it now because it's a silly argument.
5.) Even if people used it, they'd still bring people to TeamSpeak because the vast majority of players think that CCP can't and won't do anything about third-party sites and applications. Once again, the vast majority of the time they won't because it can't b proven one way or another. This is a rare exception because all the evidence was presented by the accused himself.
6.) In the interest of fairness, I will listen to it. But once again, the reason CCP didn't follow up on it was because there is not enough substantial evidence to validate your claims. Once again, I Don't think the CSM has as much power as many people are claiming Ripard has, and I know many of the people now saying he abused his position previously claimed the same thing. In this case, I don't believe Ripard went out of his way to make this available to others in the media outside of his blog, though I'd have to check with EN24 if it was submitted or not. Even then, I don't think tat counts either because it's EvE-centric in nature. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
679
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 04:36:00 -
[2560] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Firstly, that's a really long winded way of saying "CCP banned Erotica 1 for not hiding what some people would describe as harassment". So we can abuse people as much as we want as long as we hide it, right?
Ive BEEN saying all you gotta do is mind **** them so badly that they dont tell. PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
|
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
919
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 04:59:00 -
[2561] - Quote
Watched the video. Firstly, give me my 30 minutes back. Secondly, Hahaha, Danalee is a troll because she asks questions in a thread where questions need to be posed. Thirdly, Non issues? Is that how you call everything you don't understand? Last but not least, for someone who looks just like he calls my posting you sure talk alot.
Some bits of advice: Read what people are saying without your bias goggles. Edit your video, the parts where you stare deep into our soul are creepy as hell. It would also cut the time down from 30 minutes to a couple of seconds. Try not to spout nonsense about topics you clearly have no understanding of. Stop tackling the people and start scramming/webbing facts.
I'm not offended by any of your poor attempts at piggybacking on my smarts/good looks but for the love of god, please try and be more subtle next time. Did you really try and go for your 5 minutes of fame by inviting Ripard for an interview? How's that working out for you?
Now, I'd like to address CCP whoever; Please look at this guy's video: He's hurting my feelings, for reals. He crossed the line when he harassed me on these forums, insinuating my mother was a bad person and that I had a serious handicap and now he stalks me further on Youtube for the world to see and he was stupid enough to link it back here. Can he be banned, please? I really dislike him. If not, I could still be running for CSM on one of my alts, I'll try again when I'm elected.
D.
HTFU, in moderation ofcourse. If perchance the above statement has rustled a CSM's jimmies, I respectfully beg of him/her not to blog about it nor pressurize CCP to ban me. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3145
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 06:17:00 -
[2562] - Quote
1 & 2. That's a bad precedent to set then no? Harass as much as you like but don't get caught. But those who don't intend to harass someone, but upset another player, and then leave verifiable evidence of it are up **** creek without a paddle.
3. And you called him ********. See, I can't even say it here.
4. That's not ow it works now, is it. If someone in a position of power targets a single player, that player has no chance, even if someone else in a position of power goes "I don't agree with this", which malcanis might have said once before he sided with Ripard. It just shows that all a CSM member has to do is point and say "get him" and a player gets removed. After seeing abuse of power like that, I'm all for the removal of the CSM altogether. I don;t think it's a surprise Ripard did it so late into the year either. I think if he'd done this earlier CCP would have booted him from the CSM. He's brought a huge amount of negative press by doing this, while what he should have done is speak to them discreetly, and let them deal with it like they do any other ticket, privately.
Mittani was a different story. He was on the CSM, so it was his duty to be responsible, and he broke that.
5. Clearly that's not the case. Clearly the fact that he posted this himself shows that he didn't go on teamspeak to make it untraceable, otherwise he wouldn't have posted it. Again I'll state that this shows the intent was not to harass.
6. Of course he has enough power, this clearly shows it. He started up a shitstorm and CCP banned a player due to bad publicity. It's not hard to see what's going on, just a bunch of people like to deny that because they'd rather think a scammer just got what was coming. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
696
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 06:34:00 -
[2563] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:1 & 2. That's a bad precedent to set then no? Harass as much as you like but don't get caught. But those who don't intend to harass someone, but upset another player, and then leave verifiable evidence of it are up **** creek without a paddle.
3. And you called him ********. See, I can't even say it here.
4. That's not ow it works now, is it. If someone in a position of power targets a single player, that player has no chance, even if someone else in a position of power goes "I don't agree with this", which malcanis might have said once before he sided with Ripard. It just shows that all a CSM member has to do is point and say "get him" and a player gets removed. After seeing abuse of power like that, I'm all for the removal of the CSM altogether. I don;t think it's a surprise Ripard did it so late into the year either. I think if he'd done this earlier CCP would have booted him from the CSM. He's brought a huge amount of negative press by doing this, while what he should have done is speak to them discreetly, and let them deal with it like they do any other ticket, privately.
Mittani was a different story. He was on the CSM, so it was his duty to be responsible, and he broke that.
5. Clearly that's not the case. Clearly the fact that he posted this himself shows that he didn't go on teamspeak to make it untraceable, otherwise he wouldn't have posted it. Again I'll state that this shows the intent was not to harass.
6. Of course he has enough power, this clearly shows it. He started up a shitstorm and CCP banned a player due to bad publicity. It's not hard to see what's going on, just a bunch of people like to deny that because they'd rather think a scammer just got what was coming.
That's how its always been: harass as much as you want, but don't get caught. It's been that way in almost every MMO, including EvE, since the advent of the MMO genre. In EvE, it's just very narrow in the scope of what gets you banned, since most of it can be ascribed to "I was collecting tears and nothing else", and for the most part CCP ignores it.
Once again, over 90% of the cases where something like this happens are not acted upon, because of the sandbox nature of the game. I'm not going over THE FACTS of the case again, because they've been beaten into you enough.
CCP spoke, period. You can ***** and moan all you want; in the end, the only thing that matters is speaking with your wallet, which most of you will not do. You are addicted to this game as much as Ero1 was.
Honestly, if CCP banned me for calling Danalee that word today, I'd have no problems with it. I unsubbed one of my accounts months ago, and the past month I haven't had much time to devote to the game outside of beta for Elder Scrolls Online, maintaining guides for Diablo III: Reaper of Souls and Path of Exile, and maintaining a guild in Rift. If I'm banned, I'd unsub my final account and go my own way, no harm done honestly. Danalee is the epitome of "You don't have to be intelligent on the forums, you just have to be the loudest to win." It's why he's had how many posts deleted in this thread alone? And I feel it's approriate to tell him to "go back to WoW" like he would to me if I was crying about something. I don't care why he left/was removed from Marmite Collective. I don't care what his opinion is, because he has habitually come in to spam the same stuff that gets deleted, and it's why he's no longer even posting that.
But this isn't about Danalee, and shouldn't be. This is about CCP's decision.
Any decision made by CCP should bring with it some level of discourse. However, as is the habit notice how we are talking, but CCP remains silent on the issue. You knwo what this reminds me of? Almost any other instance in CCP's past where they have a contentious issue, start a thread on it, and then they leave.
It is what happened during Monoclegate and Incarna.
It is what happened during the MIttani episode.
It is what happened during SOMERgate.
It is what has happened and continues to happen in almost any Features and Ideas discussion.
We have all said out piece, and CCP made their decision based on the bottom line. If you cannot abide by it, then affect the bottom line: walk off and take your money with you. Just as they have the right to not take your money, you also have the right to not offer it to them.
I don't doubt that CCP are watching this and considering the well-thought-out posts on both sides of the issue, but those stopped being new a hundred pages ago. At this point, we're all just rambling for the sake of rambling. So, I have said my piece, I have drawn criticism and support, and I will continue to build my community for my games as well as EvE Online. I am grateful for both when I receive it, when it is done properly.
You can feel free to sit here and keep talking until you're blue in the face. I'll be following the people who are happy that CCP did something and go on to other threads.
Spectre out. |
Salvos Rhoska
1035
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 06:42:00 -
[2564] - Quote
ITT: Sore losers, ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3146
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 07:17:00 -
[2565] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:That's how its always been: harass as much as you want, but don't get caught. It's been that way in almost every MMO, including EvE, since the advent of the MMO genre. In EvE, it's just very narrow in the scope of what gets you banned, since most of it can be ascribed to "I was collecting tears and nothing else", and for the most part CCP ignores it.
Once again, over 90% of the cases where something like this happens are not acted upon, because of the sandbox nature of the game. I'm not going over THE FACTS of the case again, because they've been beaten into you enough.
CCP spoke, period. You can ***** and moan all you want; in the end, the only thing that matters is speaking with your wallet, which most of you will not do. You are addicted to this game as much as Ero1 was. I disagree about that being the only way to state your case. I enjoy this game and I'd like to see it continue as they game it's always been, leaving wouldn't change the game for the positive, it would just make it easier for the carebear crowd to get their own way. And if anything, what Ripard has done is shown that you can just speak with bad publicity instead. Instead, I'll continue to post on the subject to ensure that the ideals of protecting the sandbox remain in play.
Anya Klibor wrote:Honestly, if CCP banned me for calling Danalee that word today, I'd have no problems with it. I unsubbed one of my accounts months ago, and the past month I haven't had much time to devote to the game outside of beta for Elder Scrolls Online, maintaining guides for Diablo III: Reaper of Souls and Path of Exile, and maintaining a guild in Rift. If I'm banned, I'd unsub my final account and go my own way, no harm done honestly. Danalee is the epitome of "You don't have to be intelligent on the forums, you just have to be the loudest to win." It's why he's had how many posts deleted in this thread alone? And I feel it's approriate to tell him to "go back to WoW" like he would to me if I was crying about something. I don't care why he left/was removed from Marmite Collective. I don't care what his opinion is, because he has habitually come in to spam the same stuff that gets deleted, and it's why he's no longer even posting that. To be fair, you've had plenty of posts deleted yourself. And the questions Danalee is asking, a lot of us do want answers to those. Why is it such a bad thing to want clarity for CCP? It's like you guys want to make sure the line is as fuzzy as possible so most people will avoid doing anything that might make someone sad, like freighter bumping and the like. And the extent to which they'll enforce their EULA is very important, as once it covers twitter, blogs and the like, it's directly affecting our rights to freedom of speech.
Anya Klibor wrote:Any decision made by CCP should bring with it some level of discourse. However, as is the habit notice how we are talking, but CCP remains silent on the issue. You knwo what this reminds me of? Almost any other instance in CCP's past where they have a contentious issue, start a thread on it, and then they leave. In this instance they have asked for questions to be posted here and stated they will endeavour to respond. Danalee has asked questions, where the response. Where even just a "Nope, not answering those". There isn't one. When people like you come along and say "CCP can do what they want so shut up or quit", that's not helping.
And the really silly thing is that I know that most of this community wants more transparency from CCP. Hell watch them put in a tiny patch and forget the patch notes. Within seconds there's threads screaming about it. I think if the circumstances were different here a lot more people would be calling for CCP to respond, but in this instance too many people are afraid that by calling for a response they are showing support for Erotica 1. That's not the case. It's very possible to agree with their decision, yet still call for more transparency from CCP.
Anya Klibor wrote:You can feel free to sit here and keep talking until you're blue in the face. I'll be following the people who are happy that CCP did something and go on to other threads.
Spectre out. TTFN.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
705
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 08:44:00 -
[2566] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:..And the extent to which they'll enforce their EULA is very important, as once it covers twitter, blogs and the like, it's directly affecting our rights to freedom of speech..
No.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3146
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 09:42:00 -
[2567] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:..And the extent to which they'll enforce their EULA is very important, as once it covers twitter, blogs and the like, it's directly affecting our rights to freedom of speech.. No. Good job buddy.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2183
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 13:16:00 -
[2568] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:..And the extent to which they'll enforce their EULA is very important, as once it covers twitter, blogs and the like, it's directly affecting our rights to freedom of speech.. No. Good job buddy.
Lucas, you have the right to say anything you wish to, but it may have consequences. This is not a signature. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3147
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 13:36:00 -
[2569] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:..And the extent to which they'll enforce their EULA is very important, as once it covers twitter, blogs and the like, it's directly affecting our rights to freedom of speech.. No. Good job buddy. Lucas, you have the right to say anything you wish to, but it may have consequences. Aware of that, thanks. How long is the arm of CCPs law now that they no longer confine themselves to their own servers? Would be nice if CCP would answer simple queries like that.
The way it seems to be now, it's like sitting in Nandos enjoying my meal, when a guy comes running in yelling that I'm banned from the cinema since I'm eating food I didn't buy from the cinema. It'd be nice to know how far away from EVE I need to be to be able to express myself without getting retroactively punished when someone has a sad. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2183
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 13:55:00 -
[2570] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:..And the extent to which they'll enforce their EULA is very important, as once it covers twitter, blogs and the like, it's directly affecting our rights to freedom of speech.. No. Good job buddy. Lucas, you have the right to say anything you wish to, but it may have consequences. Aware of that, thanks. How long is the arm of CCPs law now that they no longer confine themselves to their own servers? Would be nice if CCP would answer simple queries like that. The way it seems to be now, it's like sitting in Nandos enjoying my meal, when a guy comes running in yelling that I'm banned from the cinema since I'm eating food I didn't buy from the cinema. It'd be nice to know how far away from EVE I need to be to be able to express myself without getting retroactively punished when someone has a sad.
Perhaps you would be better off playing another game entirely, (you have been harping on and on with the same thing for pages and pages in this thread now) I doubt if anything you do should you quit Eve Online will cause CCP much concern then, and you will have all the freedom of speech you want.
Oh, can I have your stuff?
But not your one note whinge bag This is not a signature. |
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2183
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 13:59:00 -
[2571] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:..And the extent to which they'll enforce their EULA is very important, as once it covers twitter, blogs and the like, it's directly affecting our rights to freedom of speech.. No. Good job buddy. Lucas, you have the right to say anything you wish to, but it may have consequences. Aware of that, thanks. How long is the arm of CCPs law now that they no longer confine themselves to their own servers? Would be nice if CCP would answer simple queries like that. The way it seems to be now, it's like sitting in Nandos enjoying my meal, when a guy comes running in yelling that I'm banned from the cinema since I'm eating food I didn't buy from the cinema. It'd be nice to know how far away from EVE I need to be to be able to express myself without getting retroactively punished when someone has a sad.
Perhaps you would be better off playing another game entirely, (you have been harping on and on with the same thing for pages and pages in this thread now) I doubt if anything you do should you quit Eve Online will cause CCP much concern then, and you will have all the freedom of speech you want.
Oh, can I have your stuff?
But not your one note whinge bag This is not a signature. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3147
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:01:00 -
[2572] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Perhaps you would be better off playing another game entirely, (you have been harping on and on with the same thing for pages and pages in this thread now) I doubt if anything you do should you quit Eve Online will cause CCP much concern then, and you will have all the freedom of speech you want. Oh, can I have your stuff? But not your one note whinge bag lol, "go get freedom of speech elsewhere", that's what you're going with eh?
What are you even posting this rubbish for? Do you have some kind of a point perhaps? Or are you just one of those butthurt scam victims cheering on the banning of a scammer at the cost of the death of the sandbox? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5209
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:22:00 -
[2573] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: The way it seems to be now, it's like sitting in Nandos enjoying my meal, when a guy comes running in yelling that I'm banned from the cinema since I'm eating food I didn't buy from the cinema. It'd be nice to know how far away from EVE I need to be to be able to express myself without getting retroactively punished when someone has a sad.
How is that pile of poop in any way relevant to this thread?
But just to play your little thought puzzle and give it a little context. If you were sitting there eating with the guy you just dragged out of his theater, beat the crap out of and are now laughing at as you throw food at him, he might not want you back there watching movies.
I wouldn't blame him,either. Psychopaths don't help customer relations much.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3147
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:36:00 -
[2574] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: The way it seems to be now, it's like sitting in Nandos enjoying my meal, when a guy comes running in yelling that I'm banned from the cinema since I'm eating food I didn't buy from the cinema. It'd be nice to know how far away from EVE I need to be to be able to express myself without getting retroactively punished when someone has a sad.
How is that pile of poop in any way relevant to this thread? But just to play your little thought puzzle and give it a little context. If you were sitting there eating with the guy you just dragged out of his theater, beat the crap out of and are now laughing at as you throw food at him, he might not want you back there watching movies. I wouldn't blame him,either. Psychopaths don't help customer relations much. Mr Epeen Which would be great, if that;'s what happened. But it's not, is it? Noone was dragged anywhere, and noone had the crap beaten out of them. If I'd asked someone for their popcorn, which he gave me. Then I asked him to leave the cinema, and he had, then I asked him to do a bunch of random tasks with the prospect of getting his popcorn and more back, which he did, then I continued to ask him to do more randoms tasks, which he decided he didn't like and exploded with rage, then the guy from the cinema would have sod all to say about it (except maybe "stop shouting racial abuse outside my cinema").
At what point, outside of EVE, during my interactions with other players of EVE am I no longer bound by the EULA? It's a simple question. If I'm in the pub and a guy who happens to play eve bumps into me and I call him a prick, are CCP going to look into that too? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5210
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:40:00 -
[2575] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Which would be great, if that;'s what happened. But it's not, is it?
Of course it didn't happen. Look up the word hypothetical and educate yourself.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3147
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 16:50:00 -
[2576] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Which would be great, if that;'s what happened. But it's not, is it? Of course it didn't happen. Look up the word hypothetical and educate yourself. Mr Epeen Sigh...
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2188
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 17:40:00 -
[2577] - Quote
Dear Lucas, never been scammed, never scammed anyone else.
I am not sorry that Ero is no more, but I have not suggested at any time that he should be perma- banned.
You are asking CCP to state more clearly what they will tolerate and what is beyond the pale in the game so that you can be a barrack room lawyer and find fault with whatever they come up with.
You should HTFU and get on with the game or be man enough to quit.
Realistically, you will just keep crying in here until CCP forum ban you and then you can cry about how your right to free speech in a game owned by CCP is curtailing your right to cry in the forums. This is not a signature. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3147
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:01:00 -
[2578] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:You are asking CCP to state more clearly what they will tolerate and what is beyond the pale in the game so that you can be a barrack room lawyer and find fault with whatever they come up with. Am I? What brought you to that conclusion(except the obvious tinfoil hattery). I'm asking because I believe we are entitled to a fair interpretation of the rules by which we must adhere, rather than arbitrary rulings when a CSM throws a wobbly. Regardless of what CCP wants to make the rule, I'm fully happy to comply (and to be honest, there's nearly no chance I'd ever cross the line anyway since I don't even scam), but they do have to state a rule. What they've got here basically amounts to "if you make someone sad and we can tell it was you, we might ban you", which is completely ludicrous. How some people are dumb enough to just accept that and move on, I do not know, but I'll continue to fight for clarity.
Furthermore, they should indicate how far beyond their game this rule reaches, as it completely undermines users rights to free speech if they are enforced by the EULA to act in a certain way outside of their game. Imagine the uproar if Facebook stated that they would now ban people for messages they didn't like appearing on twitter.
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:You should HTFU and get on with the game or be man enough to quit. It's got nothing to do with quitting. I'm not unhappy with my game experience. I will however fight for what I believe to be right, and some troll saying "you should quit" isn't going to make me back down from what I believe in.
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Realistically, you will just keep crying in here until CCP forum ban you and then you can cry about how your right to free speech in a game owned by CCP is curtailing your right to cry in the forums. I very much doubt that. If CCP were to ban individuals for calm and peaceful protest, I'd have no issue leaving of my own accord regardless of bans. I believe CCP have more integrity than that though so I don't see that happening. Until a CSM member kicks up a fuss and forwards it on to major gaming sites, I'm probably safe.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
50
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:07:00 -
[2579] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:...asking CCP to state more clearly what they will tolerate and what is beyond the pale in the game so that you can be a barrack room lawyer and find fault with whatever they come up with. +1 Thread tl;dr right there.
Harass outside of CCP's servers if that's what floats your boat, but if you choose to associate the harassment with CCP's trademarks and are dumb enough to leave evidence behind, those choice may have consequences inside CCP's servers. If you see a danger to your harassment hobby, get better at it--or at least more discreet about it--before you're told to leave.
|
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
403
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 18:31:00 -
[2580] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote: As always, CCP will not discuss specific cases of policy enforcement.
Translation: TheMittani still has a get out of jail free card. Any other players will be perma/temp banned dependent on the result of the coin toss and/or if the alliance they are in is allied with/opposed to the alliance the GM is in, depending on the severity of the infraction.
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
|
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1138
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 21:49:00 -
[2581] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.
CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
681
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 04:46:00 -
[2582] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:
Honestly, if CCP banned me for calling Danalee that word today, I'd have no problems with it. I unsubbed one of my accounts months ago, and the past month I haven't had much time to devote to the game outside of beta for Elder Scrolls Online, ...And I feel it's approriate to tell him to "go back to WoW"
looks like you already are
Snupe Doggur wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:...asking CCP to state more clearly what they will tolerate and what is beyond the pale in the game so that you can be a barrack room lawyer and find fault with whatever they come up with. +1 Thread tl;dr right there. Harass outside of CCP's servers if that's what floats your boat, but if you choose to associate the harassment with CCP's trademarks and are dumb enough to leave evidence behind, those choice may have consequences inside CCP's servers. If you see a danger to your harassment hobby, get better at it--or at least more discreet about it--before you're told to leave.
Even if noone puts in a ticket
Just whips up the lynch mob. Sounds fair right? PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2193
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 06:36:00 -
[2583] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:
Honestly, if CCP banned me for calling Danalee that word today, I'd have no problems with it. I unsubbed one of my accounts months ago, and the past month I haven't had much time to devote to the game outside of beta for Elder Scrolls Online, ...And I feel it's approriate to tell him to "go back to WoW"
looks like you already are Snupe Doggur wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:...asking CCP to state more clearly what they will tolerate and what is beyond the pale in the game so that you can be a barrack room lawyer and find fault with whatever they come up with. +1 Thread tl;dr right there. Harass outside of CCP's servers if that's what floats your boat, but if you choose to associate the harassment with CCP's trademarks and are dumb enough to leave evidence behind, those choice may have consequences inside CCP's servers. If you see a danger to your harassment hobby, get better at it--or at least more discreet about it--before you're told to leave. Even if noone puts in a ticket Just whips up the lynch mob. Sounds fair right?
CCP taking steps to remove a player they considered had gone too far, as a punishment for his behaviour and to protect the good name of their product, is not a 'lynch mob'
Of course if you believe that is was only the blog by Ripard which caused CCP to act, or are simply trolling by repeatedly saying this, then I shall leave you in your strange, paranoid state of mind. This is not a signature. |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
53
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 11:23:00 -
[2584] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:...Even if noone puts in a ticket... Even if. Anyone who's still hazy on the subject should consider actually reading the published TOS/EULA.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
681
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 16:22:00 -
[2585] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:
Honestly, if CCP banned me for calling Danalee that word today, I'd have no problems with it. I unsubbed one of my accounts months ago, and the past month I haven't had much time to devote to the game outside of beta for Elder Scrolls Online, ...And I feel it's approriate to tell him to "go back to WoW"
looks like you already are Snupe Doggur wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:...asking CCP to state more clearly what they will tolerate and what is beyond the pale in the game so that you can be a barrack room lawyer and find fault with whatever they come up with. +1 Thread tl;dr right there. Harass outside of CCP's servers if that's what floats your boat, but if you choose to associate the harassment with CCP's trademarks and are dumb enough to leave evidence behind, those choice may have consequences inside CCP's servers. If you see a danger to your harassment hobby, get better at it--or at least more discreet about it--before you're told to leave. Even if noone puts in a ticket Just whips up the lynch mob. Sounds fair right? CCP taking steps to remove a player they considered had gone too far, as a punishment for his behaviour and to protect the good name of their product, is not a 'lynch mob' Of course if you believe that is was only the blog by Ripard which caused CCP to act, or are simply trolling by repeatedly saying this, then I shall leave you to it.
So there WAS a ticket? You have proof of this I assume?
Screenshots of that ticket please, we need to prove Sokhar was lying about not reporting him PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2196
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 17:07:00 -
[2586] - Quote
Dear Antisocial, I have never stated or claimed that there was a ticket.
CCP acted of their own accord with input from many of the CSM.
Deal with it and move on. This is not a signature. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
682
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 17:26:00 -
[2587] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear Antisocial, I have never stated or claimed that there was a ticket.
CCP acted of their own accord with input from one of the CSM and caved due to pressure
Deal with it and move on.
fixt that for you
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2199
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 17:56:00 -
[2588] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear Antisocial, I have never stated or claimed that there was a ticket.
CCP acted of their own accord with input from one of the CSM and caved due to pressure
Deal with it and move on. fixt that for you
Antisocial = Troll, no more no less. This is not a signature. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
682
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 20:18:00 -
[2589] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Dear Antisocial, I have never stated or claimed that there was a ticket.
CCP acted of their own accord with input from one of the CSM and caved due to pressure
Deal with it and move on. fixt that for you Antisocial = Troll, no more no less.
Never claimed different PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
683
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 14:36:00 -
[2590] - Quote
Itll be interesting to see what other parts of the game the Erotica 1 decision influences. If the GMs are going to take a "we cant say what the lines are, youll abuse them by tiptoeing them" stance. PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
|
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
790
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 16:24:00 -
[2591] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Itll be interesting to see what other parts of the game the Erotica 1 decision influences. If the GMs are going to take a "we cant say what the lines are, youll abuse them by tiptoeing them" stance.
I'm waiting on the "Do you accept this PVP action by player ____" pop up when someone attacks you. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5246
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 21:28:00 -
[2592] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Itll be interesting to see what other parts of the game the Erotica 1 decision influences. If the GMs are going to take a "we cant say what the lines are, youll abuse them by tiptoeing them" stance.
I'm waiting on the "Do you accept this PVP action by player ____" pop up when someone attacks you.
If the Erotica 1 'we want a specific rule for every little thing' supporters get their way, that's exactly what we'll have.
I, for one, am glad CCP is ignoring them.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3150
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 21:59:00 -
[2593] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:IIshira wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Itll be interesting to see what other parts of the game the Erotica 1 decision influences. If the GMs are going to take a "we cant say what the lines are, youll abuse them by tiptoeing them" stance.
I'm waiting on the "Do you accept this PVP action by player ____" pop up when someone attacks you. If the Erotica 1 'we want a specific rule for every little thing' supporters get their way, that's exactly what we'll have. I, for one, am glad CCP is ignoring them. Mr Epeen How exactly does that even make sense?
If anything it's the guys saying "I don't like scamming, so make the line as blurry as possible to put people off" crowd are likely to make the game carebear like. CCP should just bite the bullet, drop away non-consensual PVP in high sec, allow pay to win things like SP purchases and the like, and streamline the entire game into tiered missions, they can even call them "quests". If they continue to strip away all that makes EVE unique, that's all it will end up as anyway.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5248
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:17:00 -
[2594] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:IIshira wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Itll be interesting to see what other parts of the game the Erotica 1 decision influences. If the GMs are going to take a "we cant say what the lines are, youll abuse them by tiptoeing them" stance.
I'm waiting on the "Do you accept this PVP action by player ____" pop up when someone attacks you. If the Erotica 1 'we want a specific rule for every little thing' supporters get their way, that's exactly what we'll have. I, for one, am glad CCP is ignoring them. Mr Epeen How exactly does that even make sense? If anything it's the guys saying "I don't like scamming, so make the line as blurry as possible to put people off" crowd are likely to make the game carebear like. CCP should just bite the bullet, drop away non-consensual PVP in high sec, allow pay to win things like SP purchases and the like, and streamline the entire game into tiered missions, they can even call them "quests". If they continue to strip away all that makes EVE unique, that's all it will end up as anyway.
It's not the line that's blurry, it's your comprehension.
The line is perfectly clear. Not that 'the line' has anything to do with the rules except in the most general sense. The rules, as CCP has told you, are specifically non-specific for a very good reason. One that I accept as making sense and keeping things under control without trying to force gameplay.
You want to destroy that player latitude by having CCP make hard and fast rules. It's you that wants to ruin the game by restricting sandbox play.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
686
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 03:09:00 -
[2595] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote: The rules, as CCP has told you, are specifically non-specific for a very good reason.
Yeah because you gamers will be mean and break them, so we're taking our ball home.
PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3152
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 06:20:00 -
[2596] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:It's not the line that's blurry, it's your comprehension. The line is perfectly clear. Not that 'the line' has anything to do with the rules except in the most general sense. The rules, as CCP has told you, are specifically non-specific for a very good reason. One that I accept as making sense and keeping things under control without trying to force gameplay. You want to destroy that player latitude by having CCP make hard and fast rules. It's you that wants to ruin the game by restricting sandbox play. Mr Epeen No, I don;t want hard and fast rules, I just want more clarity than "if another player gets upset, stop". Since some players get upset about almost anything, while others you could murder their families without worry, that's incredibly subjective and impossible to gauge. Then add onto that the fact that prior to this CCP state EXPLICITLY that they DO NOT deal with third party tools. Now they at least deal with some, so WHICH do they now deal with.
It's not a hard set of questions and it's not unreasonable to ask. Look at what has happened here. Something that last year was perfectly acceptable, and hasn't changed at all is not unacceptable because a CSM member started a hate campaign. Asking for an explanation of the extent to which their rules have changed, or just clarification that this was a once off due to abuse of a CSM power would be nice to know. I don't want to be responding to someone on twitter then suddenly find my account banned because some random CSM thought my words were too harsh for their liking.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1279
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 07:01:00 -
[2597] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:It's not the line that's blurry, it's your comprehension. The line is perfectly clear. Not that 'the line' has anything to do with the rules except in the most general sense. The rules, as CCP has told you, are specifically non-specific for a very good reason. One that I accept as making sense and keeping things under control without trying to force gameplay. You want to destroy that player latitude by having CCP make hard and fast rules. It's you that wants to ruin the game by restricting sandbox play. Mr Epeen No, I don;t want hard and fast rules, I just want more clarity than "if another player gets upset, stop". Since some players get upset about almost anything, while others you could murder their families without worry, that's incredibly subjective and impossible to gauge. Then add onto that the fact that prior to this CCP state EXPLICITLY that they DO NOT deal with third party tools. Now they at least deal with some, so WHICH do they now deal with. It's not a hard set of questions and it's not unreasonable to ask. Look at what has happened here. Something that last year was perfectly acceptable, and hasn't changed at all is not unacceptable because a CSM member started a hate campaign. Asking for an explanation of the extent to which their rules have changed, or just clarification that this was a once off due to abuse of a CSM power would be nice to know. I don't want to be responding to someone on twitter then suddenly find my account banned because some random CSM thought my words were too harsh for their liking.
This.
What if someone feels humiliated if I post a video of me destroying his shiny ship and laughing about it whilst I narrate the thing. Will I get a ban then, or will that happen if a csm member decides to include it in a crusade of his? Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
712
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 07:59:00 -
[2598] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:... You want to destroy that player latitude by having CCP make hard and fast rules. It's you that wants to ruin the game by restricting sandbox play. Mr Epeen
Thread ended ages ago but all you persistent, obtuse, oblivious people that just don't 'get it' were PONED right here GåæGåæGåæ Hard.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2960
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 09:00:00 -
[2599] - Quote
Some of you guys are happy for CSM members to wage personal crusades against individual members and have CCP act on it in fear of bad publicity, whether or not the individual actually broke any rules, and even when the "victim" himself says it isn't an issue and no one should be banned
We get it. We understand that you want themepark hello kitty online. We understand that you use underhanded scummy tactics like evoking ****, murder, racism, and all that other jazz in order to try and bolster your hopelessly weak arguments, and try and threaten CCP with bad publicity if your little temper tantrums don't have the desired effect.
We understand. It's ok.
Now biomass and sod off back to another game. EVE isn't for you. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3154
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 09:34:00 -
[2600] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:... You want to destroy that player latitude by having CCP make hard and fast rules. It's you that wants to ruin the game by restricting sandbox play. Mr Epeen Thread ended ages ago but all you persistent, obtuse, oblivious people that just don't 'get it' were PONED right here GåæGåæGåæ Hard. Firstly, it's "pwned" or at the very worst "powned", a play on "owned", unless you meant a he oned us (rather than twoed us).
Secondly, it's not even "pwned", since that merely a statement of his opinion which is clearly not correct. It's clear that the only group of people here that are restricting sandbox play are the group that want scammers to be banned based purely on a CSMs hate campaign rather than on the actions taken by that scammer. Asking for rules to be clarified beyond "don't make people sad" is not restrictive to sandbox play, it's quite the opposite. The way they've got it right now is heavily restrictive to play, since nobody knows what will make a random CSM member have a fit, so people have to err on the side of caution by doing nothing to upset people.
You like that though right? You'll be happy when they stop people being able to do anything that is counter to your gameplay against your will, right? When scamming and ganking is no more and you can happily grind missions in your bling ship in total safety. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
713
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 11:56:00 -
[2601] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Some of you guys are happy for CSM members to wage personal crusades against individual members and have CCP act on it in fear of bad publicity, whether or not the individual actually broke any rules, and even when the "victim" himself says it isn't an issue and no one should be banned
We get it. We understand that you want themepark hello kitty online. We understand that you use underhanded scummy tactics like evoking ****, murder, racism, and all that other jazz in order to try and bolster your hopelessly weak arguments, and try and threaten CCP with bad publicity if your little temper tantrums don't have the desired effect.
We understand. It's ok.
Now biomass and sod off back to another game. EVE isn't for you.
Except that's not what happened and no amount of crying will make it so.
Lucas Kell wrote: Firstly, it's "pwned" or at the very worst "powned", a play on "owned", unless you meant a he oned us (rather than twoed us).
That's. The. Joke.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3155
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 12:27:00 -
[2602] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Except that's not what happened and no amount of crying will make it so. If you ignore all of the parts where that's exactly what happened (so pretty much the entire thing) then you are correct. There is a little thing called reality though. Go back through the forum and look, there are at least 4 other times where bonus rooms have been raised and have been as bad, if not worse than this instance. Mysteriously nothing was done, even when GMs have been involved directly. The thing that makes this latest situation unique is that a CSM member had a sad about it.
Chopper Rollins wrote:That's. The. Joke. Jokes are usually funny. If you can't tell them, don't try. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1048
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 15:14:00 -
[2603] - Quote
.CSM have stated they are satisfied Erotica1 received due process and consideration. CSM have issued their support of the CCP statement included in its wording. Ripard Teg is within his rights, both as an individual, and as a CSM, to blog whatever the hell he wants, as long as he doesnt break NDA. His role as CSM does not rob him of his freedom of expression. They have a player mandate, as elected representatives, but that does not restrict their civil liberties. It is, ofc, always up to CCP whether they maintain their account. Even in the case of a NDA breach, its up to CCP whether they do anything in response
CCP reserve the right, as they always have, to do whatever they want, whenever they want, on whatever they want, and however they want. If you dont trust them, or cant accept that, then perhaps you ahould find another game to play.
The benefit, to all of us and to CCP, behind them reserving this right, is a more free game experience. Instances are obviously handled on a per case basis. Each is considered independantly on its own specifics. We are all just, after all, renters in CCPs sandbox. The ambiguity creates levity. By trying to force specific guidelines, you are attempting to restrict the sandbox.
As in every human transaction, trust is necessary. If youndont trust CCP, dont give them your business. Thats a fair choice, and one you are entitled to. My trust in CCP is infact reinforced by their conduct in this matter.
Asto the public response to Erotica1s activities, even the EVE community at large, famous for its evilness, found it reprehensible and contemptible. Consider what happened, as thr community AWOXing Erotica1 out, through social engineering. Even our numbed sensibilities and high level of tolerance, did not find what he was systematicaloy up to, to be acceptable.
We dont want that kind of **** in our sandbox. The public, the CSMs, and CCP have spoken. Every community has its limits, Erotica1 exceeded that threshold. Thats all there is to it. He done goofed. Consequences never the same, and so forth.
What is left to discuss?
You are asking for a stricter sandbox. Hell no.
I trust CCP to handle these matters. The existance of CSM further reinforces this as a player based watchdog agency. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3157
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 15:46:00 -
[2604] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:.CSM have stated they are satisfied Erotica1 received due process and consideration. CSM have issued their support of the CCP statement included in its wording. Ripard Teg is within his rights, both as an individual, and as a CSM, to blog whatever the hell he wants, as long as he doesnt break NDA. His role as CSM does not rob him of his freedom of expression. They have a player mandate, as elected representatives, but that does not restrict their civil liberties. It is, ofc, always up to CCP whether they maintain their account. Even in the case of a NDA breach, its up to CCP whether they do anything in response
CCP reserve the right, as they always have, to do whatever they want, whenever they want, on whatever they want, and however they want. If you dont trust them, or cant accept that, then perhaps you ahould find another game to play. The CSM have a responsibility to hold themselves to a higher standard. They also have the power to reach a lot of people much more quickly and easily, meaning if they choose to got on a personal hate campaign against an individual (like in this case) the individual stands no chance. Of course the rest of the CSM will state their support (though in this case it was only stated by 2 CSM members) as that's what they will be expected to do. Whatever way you see it though, no action was taken until this was pushed into a public witch hunt, which clearly shows that's the reason action was taken. Sure CCP have the right to do it, but that doesn't mean people should sit by in silence and accept it.
You can continue to tell people to go play another game, and I'll continue to tell you the same thing. I can and will stay here and I can and will continue to petition for fair, transparent and unbiased moderation. If you don't like that, you may also go elsewhere. I'm not going to just move on because some forum troll told me to.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The benefit, to all of us and to CCP, behind them reserving this right, is a more free game experience. Instances are obviously handled on a per case basis. Each is considered independantly on its own specifics. We are all just, after all, renters in CCPs sandbox. The ambiguity creates levity. By trying to force specific guidelines, you are attempting to restrict the sandbox.
As in every human transaction, trust is necessary. If youndont trust CCP, dont give them your business. Thats a fair choice, and one you are entitled to. My trust in CCP is infact reinforced by their conduct in this matter. Really? Doesn't seem like a benefit to us that a single player can force CCPs hand into a ruling on a case which they had already chosen to stay out of. Remember, this is nto the first case brought up about the bonus room and is not the first time this particular case was brought forward. When CCP independently looked at it, they took no action. Once Ripard chose to start his hate campaign, they reacted.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asto the public response to Erotica1s activities, even the EVE community at large, famous for its evilness, found it reprehensible and contemptible. Consider what happened, as thr community AWOXing Erotica1 out, through social engineering. Even our numbed sensibilities and high level of tolerance, did not find what he was systematicaloy up to, to be acceptable. Total and utter bullshit. The statistics clearly prove that it's no more than a vocal minority on either side of this. Chribba showed that the original threadnaught had more pages than posters. The majority of the playerbasee couldn't care less about the actual situation either way. This lack of involvement in these affairs is why it's even more important that CCPs rules are explicit, and won't be undermined by a single CSM member with an agenda.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:We dont want that kind of **** in our sandbox. The public, the CSMs, and CCP have spoken. Every community has its limits, Erotica1 exceeded that threshold. Thats all there is to it. He done goofed. Consequences never the same, and so forth. Citation needed. I've only seen a couple of CSMs mention it, I've not seen anything from CCP about the specific case and they haven't even stated to Erotica 1 why he was banned or even given an indication of how long it's for. I've certainly seen as many members of the community on each side though, and even then total that have stated anything about it is a tiny fraction of the community. If we're going to just look at the actions taken and speculate on what that means, then it's clear that CCP is tolerant of racial abuse.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:You are asking for a stricter sandbox. Hell no. How am I? I'm asking for quite the opposite. I'm asking for clear, fair and unbiased rules, so we can all play by the same book. What you want is for the line to be so fuzzy that people have to fear any action that might upset another player, turning this game into hello kitty online. I don;t want the sandbox filled with arbitrary rulings by people with agendas. I want the edges of the sandbox clearly drawn in, so we can all play in it freely. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1048
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 15:56:00 -
[2605] - Quote
This guy still doesnt get it. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3157
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 15:57:00 -
[2606] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I have no ability to counter those points, as I'm clearly in the wrong here. FTFY. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1048
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 15:59:00 -
[2607] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:I have no ability to counter those points, as I'm clearly in the wrong here. FTFY.
I can refute all of your points.
Question is why should I bother when you dont get it.
I pity you, honestly.
PS:Im available to explain these matters to you on voice comm. Just say when and where, and I will take the time to educate you on exactly how wrong you are on all of this in voice, since ypu seem to have trouble comprehending text. Just say when and where, Ill be therr. Also free rights to record and distribute. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3157
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 16:14:00 -
[2608] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:I have no ability to counter those points, as I'm clearly in the wrong here. FTFY. I can refute all of your points. Question is why should I bother when you dont get it. I pity you, honestly. PS:Im available to explain these matters to you on voice comm. Just say when and where, and I will take the time to educate you on exactly how wrong you are on all of this in voice, since ypu seem to have trouble comprehending text. Just say when and where, Ill be therr. Also free rights to record and distribute. I really don't want to hear you droning on about how wrong you think I am. That won't change the fact that it's a pile of bull. You can't honestly look at the previous 4+ times CCP have looked at the bonus room, including this specific case, then continue to tell me that they did it off of their own back.
And while you'll continue to state that we want specific rules to "rules lawyer", that's nothing but projection. Clearly defined boundaries of the sandbox already exist in most places and wouldn't be difficult or game breaking to add here. By refusing to clearly define those boundaries though, CCP are destroying the ability for people to make reasonable choices. It's enforcing a stricter rule set through fear of unpredictable repercussions.
Just to be absolutely clear. I understand the words you are typing, I understand your point of view, I simply disagree with you. It's not that you are completely right and those with differing opinions "don't get it". Every time you speak on any subject, you avoid the points and you attack the individuals, then you that they don't get it because they are stupid, etc. You could at the very least TRY to conceal the fact that you are a know-nothing little troll. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
699
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 17:39:00 -
[2609] - Quote
Do you have actual proof that CCP has looked into the Bonus Room before? |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
699
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 17:52:00 -
[2610] - Quote
CCP is using intentionally-vague wording with its reponse, just like any other company does. You see, every game--from World of Warcraft to EvE Online--has rules lawyers. It's not everyone, mind you, though EvE certainly has more than its fair share because of its sandbox nature. In EvE specifically, if you give players a foot, they'll take a mile. As such, making the wording ambiguous at best still allows them to maintain their game as they see fit without overly compromising the integrity of the GMs and developers.
Simply put, you won't get specific answers because of that. Giving any type of specificity would mean that people would fall with-in those lines but push the boundaries of others, and in EvE we all push those boundaries. That is the norm for us. On top of that, it has already been said that part of the reason certain questions are being asked is to have someone banned. In fact Lucas, you have admitted that you want him gone because you think he stepped over his boundaries as a member of the CSM simply for posting a blog hat had Erotica 1 banned. However, you never actually answer my questions concerning if you think he purposely went out and promoted it. So let's try this again:
Since you, Lucas Kell, want to see Ripard Teg banned because he wrote a blog posting that eventually saw Erotica 1 banned for real-life harassment, can you validate with reasons as to why he should be banned, and cite specific evidence to back-up your position?
|
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3159
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:30:00 -
[2611] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Do you have actual proof that CCP has looked into the Bonus Room before? Yes, go back and look at the old threads on this subject, of which there are many. CCP responded to a fair few, including one specific case where the "victim" had his SP restored because he stated that he shared his account with his brother and his brother did it. So a GM investigated what occurred there specifically.
Anya Klibor wrote:CCP is using intentionally-vague wording with its reponse, just like any other company does. You see, every game--from World of Warcraft to EvE Online--has rules lawyers. It's not everyone, mind you, though EvE certainly has more than its fair share because of its sandbox nature. In EvE specifically, if you give players a foot, they'll take a mile. As such, making the wording ambiguous at best still allows them to maintain their game as they see fit without overly compromising the integrity of the GMs and developers. That's horse ****. CCP along with every other company has been explicit in stating that they do not deal with things that occur on third party sites or services. Now they break from that and suddenly choose to be fuzzy. All of this "rules lawyer" stuff is utter crap. It's just been imagined up to defend CCP for a decision which is clearly out of place with their rules. There are countless other rules in the EULA and ToS which are very specific, and they don't all get "rules lawyered". Making it ambiguous means that people are forced to take a carebear stance and avoid any grey area behaviour without CCP having to state "Yeah, we're killing the sandbox". It's the cowards way of dealing with the situation. One way or another they should just be clear in how they want the community to interact.
Anya Klibor wrote:Simply put, you won't get specific answers because of that. Giving any type of specificity would mean that people would fall with-in those lines but push the boundaries of others, and in EvE we all push those boundaries. That is the norm for us. On top of that, it has already been said that part of the reason certain questions are being asked is to have someone banned. In fact Lucas, you have admitted that you want him gone because you think he stepped over his boundaries as a member of the CSM simply for posting a blog hat had Erotica 1 banned. However, you never actually answer my questions concerning if you think he purposely went out and promoted it. So let's try this again:
Since you, Lucas Kell, want to see Ripard Teg banned because he wrote a blog posting that eventually saw Erotica 1 banned for real-life harassment, can you validate with reasons as to why he should be banned, and cite specific evidence to back-up your position? What evidence do I need to back an opinion. The CSM members have a responsibility to act with a certain level of professionalism, and where they don't, they should at the very least be removed from CSM positions. Rather than go through any of the channels available to regular player or the ones available specifically to CSM members, he chose to make a public spectacle of the situation. That was irresponsible, and forced CCP to act swiftly and against their usual rules as a form of damage control. No player could have survived a targeted hate campaign from someone in a position of power like Ripard. CSMs should not abuse their positions in that way, and if this is a sign of what is to come in the future, I'd fully support dismissing the idea of the CSM altogether. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
699
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:52:00 -
[2612] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:Do you have actual proof that CCP has looked into the Bonus Room before? Yes, go back and look at the old threads on this subject, of which there are many. CCP responded to a fair few, including one specific case where the "victim" had his SP restored because he stated that he shared his account with his brother and his brother did it. So a GM investigated what occurred there specifically.
Did the victim claim this, or did CCP? Because if CCP says they reimbursed the character's skill points (instead of banning the account outright for account-sharing, which is in the EULA) then they violated their own rules about making public actions they take concerning tickets and petitions. If it was a victim, how can you validate his claim?
Once again, what proof do you have that CCP has looked over previous Bonus Room material and deemed it acceptable?
Lucas Kell wrote:That's horse ****. CCP along with every other company has been explicit in stating that they do not deal with things that occur on third party sites or services. Now they break from that and suddenly choose to be fuzzy. All of this "rules lawyer" stuff is utter crap. It's just been imagined up to defend CCP for a decision which is clearly out of place with their rules. There are countless other rules in the EULA and ToS which are very specific, and they don't all get "rules lawyered". Making it ambiguous means that people are forced to take a carebear stance and avoid any grey area behaviour without CCP having to state "Yeah, we're killing the sandbox". It's the cowards way of dealing with the situation. One way or another they should just be clear in how they want the community to interact.
Blizzard Entertainment has nothing on their TOS or EULA concerning third-party application of their TOS or EULA. In fact, one of the things I found out is that Blizzard can and does take action against streamers and YouTube video makers when it comes to their games, and that according to their policy if you violate their IP or requirements, they can take actions against you out-of-game and in-game (source: Blizzard Video Policy). Now, I'm making a leap when I say they can respond in-game to out-of-game issues, but if you violate their policies and refuse to C&D, it's pretty much guaranteed that they will ban you permanently in-game as well as go after you monetarily for copyright infringement.
What you are saying is that they every company is hands-off when it comes to third-party sites and what is posted. That is not, and has never been, the case. These companies reserve the right to stop you at the source, and the source is their product. Stop getting bent out of shape at the fact that companies have rights to cut you off from their product because you don't like it.
Lucas Kell wrote:What evidence do I need to back an opinion. The CSM members have a responsibility to act with a certain level of professionalism, and where they don't, they should at the very least be removed from CSM positions. Rather than go through any of the channels available to regular player or the ones available specifically to CSM members, he chose to make a public spectacle of the situation. That was irresponsible, and forced CCP to act swiftly and against their usual rules as a form of damage control. No player could have survived a targeted hate campaign from someone in a position of power like Ripard. CSMs should not abuse their positions in that way, and if this is a sign of what is to come in the future, I'd fully support dismissing the idea of the CSM altogether.
You need evidence when you're attempting to pass that opinion off as fact. So provide it for everyone to see. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
693
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 20:28:00 -
[2613] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:It's not the line that's blurry, it's your comprehension. The line is perfectly clear. Not that 'the line' has anything to do with the rules except in the most general sense. The rules, as CCP has told you, are specifically non-specific for a very good reason. One that I accept as making sense and keeping things under control without trying to force gameplay. You want to destroy that player latitude by having CCP make hard and fast rules. It's you that wants to ruin the game by restricting sandbox play. Mr Epeen No, I don;t want hard and fast rules, I just want more clarity than "if another player gets upset, stop". Since some players get upset about almost anything, while others you could murder their families without worry, that's incredibly subjective and impossible to gauge. Then add onto that the fact that prior to this CCP state EXPLICITLY that they DO NOT deal with third party tools. Now they at least deal with some, so WHICH do they now deal with. It's not a hard set of questions and it's not unreasonable to ask. Look at what has happened here. Something that last year was perfectly acceptable, and hasn't changed at all is not unacceptable because a CSM member started a hate campaign. Asking for an explanation of the extent to which their rules have changed, or just clarification that this was a once off due to abuse of a CSM power would be nice to know. I don't want to be responding to someone on twitter then suddenly find my account banned because some random CSM thought my words were too harsh for their liking. This. What if someone feels humiliated if I post a video of me destroying his shiny ship and laughing about it whilst I narrate the thing. Will I get a ban then, or will that happen if a csm member decides to include it in a crusade of his?
Theres WAAAAAAY too much butthurt caused by pixel destruction to gauge your in game behavior on that level of butthurt
Btw, how much longer are these replies gonna get lol PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
406
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 20:40:00 -
[2614] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.
Normally I don't comment on gettign a post deleted, but I feel on this occasion it should be addressed.
This is the fundamental problem of CCP: they never address a issue, they bury it.
I feel that this is the Blue Wall of Silence in this case, ISD rep. Because what I said was true. Take a seat on any Alliance High command, and you'll hear how this or that GM is a member and that they'll help out where possible.
We can't actually talk about GM rulings, and so the issue never goes away. The very rules that are supposed to prevent abuse of the system are instead used to obfuscate abuse of the system. The lack of transparency that the CSM was supposed to do away with is still very much in place, and, based on what I see here, unlikely to go away any time soon.
And so we have these incidents. And will continue to do so.
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
693
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 20:45:00 -
[2615] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I feel that this is the Blue Wall of Silence in this case, ISD rep. Because what I said was true. Take a seat on any Alliance High command, and you'll hear how this or that GM is a member and that they'll help out where possible.
T20 comes to mind PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3160
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 20:53:00 -
[2616] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Did the victim claim this, or did CCP? Because if CCP says they reimbursed the character's skill points (instead of banning the account outright for account-sharing, which is in the EULA) then they violated their own rules about making public actions they take concerning tickets and petitions. If it was a victim, how can you validate his claim?
Once again, what proof do you have that CCP has looked over previous Bonus Room material and deemed it acceptable? The victim stated it, but it was verified though the API key that the player had handed over to Erotica 1. And it was verified publicly, not through screenshots and such, the key was completely public for anyone to check, and check we did.
The fact that CCP have responded to not only that case but a few others, and closed petitions that were opened for other bonus rooms cases shows that they accepted it. You want me to show you some link where CCP state explicitly that they are OK with it, which obviously won;t be possible, but that's ludicrous to request and you know it. The fact that they with certainty have responded on these cases and that petitions have been raised in the past with Erotica 1 receiving not even a warning shows that they have considered it acceptable.
Anya Klibor wrote:Blizzard Entertainment has nothing on their TOS or EULA concerning third-party application of their TOS or EULA. In fact, one of the things I found out is that Blizzard can and does take action against streamers and YouTube video makers when it comes to their games, and that according to their policy if you violate their IP or requirements, they can take actions against you out-of-game and in-game (source: Blizzard Video Policy). Now, I'm making a leap when I say they can respond in-game to out-of-game issues, but if you violate their policies and refuse to C&D, it's pretty much guaranteed that they will ban you permanently in-game as well as go after you monetarily for copyright infringement. All companies will respond to copyright issues, but that's a far cry from responding to player interaction out of game. That's a legal issue, not a ToS issue. I'd very much expect CCP to respond if someone violated their copyright. But nothing on that recording is copyrighted material.
Anya Klibor wrote:What you are saying is that they every company is hands-off when it comes to third-party sites and what is posted. That is not, and has never been, the case. These companies reserve the right to stop you at the source, and the source is their product. Stop getting bent out of shape at the fact that companies have rights to cut you off from their product because you don't like it. Of course they are! I've never played a single MMO where anything said on a TS/Vent server was moderated by the owners of the game. The only comms they moderate is their own comms as that could affect their game's legal rating. And I've never disputed that CCP don't have the right to do it. But having the right to do something doesn't mean that's fair and certainly doesn't mean that a consumer just have to lay down and take it. And don't forget, we have a right to protest against what we feel is unfair.
Anya Klibor wrote:You need evidence when you're attempting to pass that opinion off as fact. So provide it for everyone to see. Which part did you need evidence for? That CSMs should be responsible? I assumed that was a given. Or did you want evidence that Ripard teg started a hate campaign? Head on over to his blog and read it, where he specifically names a player then equates what they do to geneva convention style torture. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
715
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 22:10:00 -
[2617] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:... And don't forget, we have a right to protest against what we feel is unfair....
Ah i see, you think protest is doing something. Explains all this sperg. Time to lead the unsub mass movement or stop spergpoasting, methinks. No matter how much internet argument you win, you can't make a lick of difference to what happened because you don't own the game you play it. Disagree with that? Unsub or deal with it, i'm happy with how things turned out.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3169
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 22:24:00 -
[2618] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:... And don't forget, we have a right to protest against what we feel is unfair.... Ah i see, you think protest is doing something. Explains all this sperg. Time to lead the unsub mass movement or stop spergpoasting, methinks. No matter how much internet argument you win, you can't make a lick of difference to what happened because you don't own the game you play it. Disagree with that? Unsub or deal with it, i'm happy with how things turned out. Sure, because the only thing we can do when we disagree with something is quit, right? Not petition for change, like has been done many many many many many many many many times before.
How about this. I'll continue to state whatever I want. If you don't like it, you can either deal with it, cry about it, or go away. I honestly don't care which. You telling me to leave because you feel that banning all scamming and rolling the game into hello kitty online is the best way forward, isn't going to make me leave. When I decide that CCP have reached a point that makes the game no fun for me, I'll leave of my own accord. Until then I'll continue to post. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
695
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 22:24:00 -
[2619] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:... And don't forget, we have a right to protest against what we feel is unfair.... Ah i see, you think protest is doing something. Explains all this sperg. Time to lead the unsub mass movement or stop spergpoasting, methinks. No matter how much internet argument you win, you can't make a lick of difference to what happened because you don't own the game you play it. Disagree with that? Unsub or deal with it, i'm happy with how things turned out.
Ya, the summer of rage did nothing to change anything in this game.
oh wait, no the opposite PSYCHOTIC MONK (or Erotica1's next alt) for CSM. All gameplay modes should be represented! http://i.imgur.com/N949bKU.jpg proving that Im a sociopathic ganker and all around scum of the game http://i.imgur.com/RX8oBRN.jpg |
Salvos Rhoska
1053
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 22:41:00 -
[2620] - Quote
So you refuse a voice com discussion.
Yeah, Im not surprised. You are afraid. ------------ |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3169
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 22:44:00 -
[2621] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:So you refuse a voice com discussion.
Yeah, Im not surprised. You are afraid. Yes, I'm afraid. I'm afraid that if I enter voice comms with you, I will lose time in my life that I will never get back listening to someone sperging at me. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
80
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 23:04:00 -
[2622] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:So you refuse a voice com discussion.
Yeah, Im not surprised. You are afraid.
Careful, you know what happens in those voice channels! |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 23:29:00 -
[2623] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:...All companies will respond to copyright issues, but that's a far cry from responding to player interaction out of game. That's a legal issue, not a ToS issue. I'd very much expect CCP to respond if someone violated their copyright. But nothing on that recording is copyrighted material...
Still fighting the good fight, I see, and still wrong:
CCP Falcon wrote:...CCP, in collaboration with the CSM, have agreed and would like to state in the strongest possible terms and in accordance with our existing Terms of Service and End User License Agreement, that real life harassment is morally reprehensible, and verifiable examples of such behavior will be met with disciplinary action against game accounts in accordance with our Terms of Service.
Harassment poses a potential problem in any virtual world, and CCP has dealt with cases of this nature for more than a decade. We will continue to monitor and evaluate claims of harassment based on our policies and acceptable standards of behavior...
It's really no good continuing to claim that the harassment cases before us aren't TOS/EULA matters, when CCP clearly says they are in post #1. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
717
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 00:12:00 -
[2624] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:... And don't forget, we have a right to protest against what we feel is unfair.... Ah i see, you think protest is doing something. Explains all this sperg. Time to lead the unsub mass movement or stop spergpoasting, methinks. No matter how much internet argument you win, you can't make a lick of difference to what happened because you don't own the game you play it. Disagree with that? Unsub or deal with it, i'm happy with how things turned out. Ya, the summer of rage did nothing to change anything in this game. oh wait, no the opposite
So go shoot a monument, see how much support you can muster. Go on. Post 1 does say this is a TOS/EULA matter though, different from an annoying feature everybody hated. Remember, CCP thinks RL harassment is morally reprehensible and examples get dealt with. That's what your arguing against in this case.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
697
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 02:45:00 -
[2625] - Quote
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:So you refuse a voice com discussion.
Yeah, Im not surprised. You are afraid. Careful, you know what happens in those voice channels!
Yes, you get banned for out of game harassment
Chopper Rollins wrote:
So go shoot a monument, see how much support you can muster. Go on. Post 1 does say this is a TOS/EULA matter though, different from an annoying feature everybody hated. Remember, CCP thinks RL harassment is morally reprehensible and examples get dealt with. That's what you're arguing against in this case.
edit:speling
Getting on coms that you can turn off at any time isnt RL harassment to anyone but CCP and only that because they were forced to care. Pretend anything else and youre fooling yourself. And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
717
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 03:32:00 -
[2626] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:... Getting on coms that you can turn off at any time isnt RL harassment to anyone but CCP and only that because they were forced to care. Pretend anything else and youre fooling yourself.
I'm not pretending anything else at all, that's exactly what i think happened. They were forced to care, ok. So either force them to care or give it up.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
697
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 03:43:00 -
[2627] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:... Getting on coms that you can turn off at any time isnt RL harassment to anyone but CCP and only that because they were forced to care. Pretend anything else and youre fooling yourself. I'm not pretending anything else at all, that's exactly what i think happened. They were forced to care, ok. So either force them to care or give it up.
nah Id rather sit here and make you cry lol
Or act like you currently are. It shows its getting under your skin XD
Actually, what Ill likely do is finish my mission then go and work leather and wait for the blood moon. But have fun on yer crusade, man And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
112
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 03:52:00 -
[2628] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:I have no ability to counter those points, as I'm clearly in the wrong here. FTFY.
Ignore Salvos... He is this thread's resident troll and a bad one at that. He doesn't have an answer for your argument so he resorts to personal attacks. Been there did that :D Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
717
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 04:47:00 -
[2629] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:... Getting on coms that you can turn off at any time isnt RL harassment to anyone but CCP and only that because they were forced to care. Pretend anything else and youre fooling yourself. I'm not pretending anything else at all, that's exactly what i think happened. They were forced to care, ok. So either force them to care or give it up. nah Id rather sit here and make you cry lol Or act like you currently are. It shows its getting under your skin XD ...
Not sure what side of this you're on, CCP did what they felt was right (see first post) and a few disagree or are pretending to. They are all powerless and whiny. (See all my posts telling them that.)
PS the " you care but i don't " ploy doesn't work outside of grade school. Unless you're trying to make Lucas Kell look complex and informed.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3172
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 07:00:00 -
[2630] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:It's really no good continuing to claim that the harassment cases before us aren't TOS/EULA matters, when CCP clearly says they are in post #1. How simple are you? Go and read what we are writing. We are not saying that CCP aren't stating it's part of their ToS, we are stating that they've explicitly stated time and again that they DO NOT deal with third party comms. They've also looked at THIS VERY CASE before as well as the other bonus room cases. Now they've gone against what they've previously said. On top of that, CCP who made a HTFU song have now basically said "if someone gets upset you must stop whatever you are doing", which is very subjective.
So since they have gone against what they have stated themselves, we now want to know to what extent things have changed. How far outside of EVE do we get bound by the EULA, and at what point when another player shows signs of upset do we have to stop. And finally, if we do something that CCP are fine with, then a CSM member starts a hate campaign is that going to change CCPs opinion every time? They are simple questions, and vitally important to ensure the sand remains in this sandbox. Repeating "But I R hate Eroitca 1" over and over won't change that, so go back to your carebearing. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3172
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 07:03:00 -
[2631] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Not sure what side of this you're on, CCP did what they felt was right (see first post) and a few disagree or are pretending to. They are all powerless and whiny. (See all my posts telling them that.)
PS the " you care but i don't " ploy doesn't work outside of grade school. Unless you're trying to make Lucas Kell look complex and informed. Yes, we've heard your views. You think that because our opinion differs from yours we should just shut up and not express ourselves, and like most of he people that reckon Eroita 1 is the devil, you seem to be incapable of posting without personal attacks, because your position in heavily flawed and you know it.. Never gonna happen. If you don't like it, you can leave, but you will never force our silence.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1054
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 07:31:00 -
[2632] - Quote
CSM have unanimously stated they are satisfied Erotica1 was given due process and fair consideration. CCP released a statement in OP, including in its wording that it is supported by CSM. The community at large is happy with CCPs handling of this instance. Its only 2-3 posters who repeat this whining nonsense in this thread, ignoring repeated debunking and rebuttals.
Whine all you want, but it doesnt make you right, valid or relevant.
Its a dead horse. Matter is already settled and over. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3172
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 07:41:00 -
[2633] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:CSM have unanimously stated they are satisfied Erotica1 was given due process and fair consideration. CCP released a statement in OP, including in its wording that it is supported by CSM. As stated by one CSM member and CCP. Yet still no explanation for why CCP didn;t react until it was a targeted hate campaing and no indication of where the new limits are.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The community at large is happy with CCPs handling of this instance. Its only 2-3 posters who repeat this whining nonsense in this thread, ignoring repeated debunking and rebuttals. Citation needed. There only seems to be a handful of posters on either site of this debate, most of the anti-E1 side being people like you throwing about personal attacks.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Whine all you want, but it doesnt make you right, valid or relevant.
Its a dead horse. Matter is already settled and over. It's not over by a long shot. There's a lot of questions that need to be answered. You may not care about the sandbox, but some of us damn well do. We don't want to see the game turning into hello kitty online, and this is just one more step towards that.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
717
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 07:52:00 -
[2634] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:... Never gonna happen. If you don't like it, you can leave, but you will never force our silence.
Actually laughing out loud. Nice one.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Salvos Rhoska
1054
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 07:52:00 -
[2635] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:As stated by one CSM member and CCP. Yet still no explanation for why CCP didn;t react until it was a targeted hate campaing and no indication of where the new limits are.
False. CSM have stated that the CSM as a whole are satisfied Erotica1 was given due process and consideration.
It is irrelevant why CCP didn't act earlier. They have acted now. There was no targeted hate campaign. Ripard simply posted a blog, which he is free to do. The community reacted condemingly and expressed its disapproval of what the blog revealed of Erotica1s activities. Subsequent discussion here in the threadnaught showed a majority contempt for what Erotica1 was doing. The OP clearly delineates where the "new limits" are.
Lucas Kell wrote:Citation needed. There only seems to be a handful of posters on either site of this debate, most of the anti-E1 side being people like you throwing about personal attacks.
False. Poster count and sentiment clearly shows majority support for CCPs conduct.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Whine all you want, but it doesnt make you right, valid or relevant.
[quote=Lucas Kell]It's not over by a long shot. There's a lot of questions that need to be answered. You may not care about the sandbox, but some of us damn well do. We don't want to see the game turning into hello kitty online, and this is just one more step towards that.
Its over. The game is not turning into hello kitty online. The status quo is the same as it ever was. CCP reserves the right to do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want. The sandbox is improved and reinforced by the wording of their statement. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3172
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 09:05:00 -
[2636] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:False. CSM have stated that the CSM as a whole are satisfied Erotica1 was given due process and consideration. One or two CSM members have stated that. I've not seen the CSM as a whole state that.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:It is irrelevant why CCP didn't act earlier. They have acted now. There was no targeted hate campaign. Ripard simply posted a blog, which he is free to do. The community reacted condemingly and expressed its disapproval of what the blog revealed of Erotica1s activities. Subsequent discussion here in the threadnaught showed a majority contempt for what Erotica1 was doing. The OP clearly delineates where the "new limits" are. No, it's not irrelevant at all. The rules were always clear, then Ripard started his hate campaign and the rules suddenly differed. CCP had looked at tho bonus room countless times and it has been fine. To suggest that nothing changed is utterly ludicrous. As for "majority", I'm not sure you know the definition of the word. It was a vocal minority. Chribba even showed that the threadnaught had more pages than unique posters. It was a small group of people repeating themselves, not a majority. If you want to show me that at least 25000 people are directly supporting this decision, then you can start telling me how the majority feels.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:False. Poster count and sentiment clearly shows majority support for CCPs conduct. CMS also support it. The overwhelming majority is happy and continues to play, as usual. Again, Citation needed. Read above. A small group repeating themselves does not a majority make.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Its over. The game is not turning into hello kitty online. The status quo is the same as it ever was. CCP reserves the right to do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want. The sandbox is improved and reinforced by the wording of their statement. You have categorically (and laughably) refused to address your questions to CCP directly, that is your own stupidity and fault. Dont expect answers from someone you have not directly addressed. How is the status quo the same? Before this CCP have stated in complete and utter clarity that they DO NOT deal with any situation that occurs on third party services (unless it's a legal breach, so copyright, etc). Not only have they stated that, it's written on their ToS. People who have been harassed (actually harassed, not asked to sing) out of game have been told this time and again. Now, that rule has changed, which is clearly in direct conflict with what their ToS states.
And yes, the game is turning into hello kitty online, since the rules are being made so vague, that the only way to avoid being in a position where your ability to play isn't threatened is to leave people alone. I've seen miners being bumped flip out and the bumpers are backing off as they don't know where they stand. Even Eve-radio don't know how to approach some of their competitions anymore. It's easy to say "nothing has changed" when you are looking only at your tiny little section of game, but that doesn't make it the case.
And I don't expect answers from you. You keep telling me how unimportant this is, yet you feel the need to respond and to personally attack me pretty much daily. But that's no surprise since all you do is mooch around the forums trolling at every turn. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1054
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 09:53:00 -
[2637] - Quote
False. CSM have stated that the entire body oversaw the proceedures, and where satisfied Erotica1 received due process and consideration.
]Lucas Kell wrote:No, it's not irrelevant at all. The rules were always clear, then Ripard started his hate campaign and the rules suddenly differed. CCP had looked at tho bonus room countless times and it has been fine. To suggest that nothing changed is utterly ludicrous. As for "majority", I'm not sure you know the definition of the word. It was a vocal minority. Chribba even showed that the threadnaught had more pages than unique posters. It was a small group of people repeating themselves, not a majority. If you want to show me that at least 25000 people are directly supporting this decision, then you can start telling me how the majority feels..
False. The small group repeating itself was provably only Erotica1 affiliates and beneficiaries, with me as the leading exception. They where the vocal minority. The majority was unique posters condemning Erotica1s behavior. The rules are still clear, and infact now even clearer thanks to the reinforcing statement. CCP saw fit to take action, and the CSM supported it, as does the community at large.
]Lucas Kell wrote:Again, Citation needed. Read above. A small group repeating themselves does not a majority make Yes, the small geoup of Erotica1 beneficiaries repeating themselves does not a majority make.
]Lucas Kell wrote:How is the status quo the same? Before this CCP have stated in complete and utter clarity that they DO NOT deal with any situation that occurs on third party services (unless it's a legal breach, so copyright, etc). Not only have they stated that, it's written on their ToS. People who have been harassed (actually harassed, not asked to sing) out of game have been told this time and again. Now, that rule has changed, which is clearly in direct conflict with what their ToS states.
Nope. And ypur claim that CCP has broken their own TOS is ludicrous.
Lucas Kell wrote:And yes, the game is turning into hello kitty online, since the rules are being made so vague, that the only way to avoid being in a position where your ability to play isn't threatened is to leave people alone. I've seen miners being bumped flip out and the bumpers are backing off as they don't know where they stand. Even Eve-radio don't know how to approach some of their competitions anymore. It's easy to say "nothing has changed" when you are looking only at your tiny little section of game, but that doesn't make it the case.
Hello Kitty has very strict rules. EVE is ruoed at CCPs discretion. The vagueness allows for a wider playing field for everyone. Nothing has changed. CCP can and will do whatever they want, whenever they want.
Lucas Kell wrote:And I don't expect answers from you. You keep telling me how unimportant this is, yet you feel the need to respond and to personally attack me pretty much daily. But that's no surprise since all you do is mooch around the forums trolling at every turn. Ad hominem.
The matter is settled and over. A few whiners with rebutted and refuted arguments arent going to make any difference. CCP is happy, the CSM are happy, and the community at large, is happy.
Whine all you want, and I will xontinue to refute and rebut your nonsense at every turn. Doesnt even take me any effort, because you have no ground to stand on. Ypu furthermore refused the opportunity to argue your side on voice comms, and yet continue wasting time posting to me. Hypocritical, and cowardly. Im still available for voice comms, for recording and distribution, but you are afraid of losing, when infact you have already lost anyways. Your laughable refusal to recognise that, does not make it less the case. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3172
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 10:30:00 -
[2638] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:False. The small group repeating itself was provably only Erotica1 affiliates and beneficiaries, with me as the leading exception. They where the vocal minority. The majority was unique posters condemning Erotica1s behavior. The rules are still clear, and infact now even clearer thanks to the reinforcing statement. CCP saw fit to take action, and the CSM supported it, as does the community at large. Prove it. Prove that the "community at large" is in support. What I find most amusing is that in the actual threadnaught about it, you guys were stating that all of the individual character MUST all just be Erotica 1 alts. If it's easier for you to live in denial and state clearly incorrect statements, then by all means proceed.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Yes, the small geoup of Erotica1 beneficiaries repeating themselves does not a majority make. Show me where I stated that the majority supports Erotica 1. I didn't, anywhere. The majority do not give a crap one way or the other, which is why when your fallback argument is "the community at large supports this decision", it's clearly incorrect. You are overselling your position by a long shot.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Nope. And ypur claim that CCP has broken their own TOS is ludicrous. I didn't claim they broke the ToS, I claimed they went against what it says about their jurisdiction, as well as what they have previously told victims of third party harassment. go ahead, go and read it, you'll find it states: "We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site.".
But since you obviously support this decision, why are you not campaigning for the reversal of the decision made on previous tickets about third party harassment where CCP responded with their usual "no our problem"? And if you support them taking action, why are you not in support of them making it clear that it is an issue they deal with?
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Hello Kitty has very strict rules. EVE is ruoed at CCPs discretion. The vagueness allows for a wider playing field for everyone. Nothing has changed. CCP can and will do whatever they want, whenever they want. Bullshit. This and prior uprisings has shown that CCP can't do what they want. They can be easily pushed into certain actions by players and groups powerful enough to threaten them with bad press.
What Erotica 1 did was nothing, it's been done for years and nobody gave a crap. If the victim himself had gone to the gaming media sites, they wouldn't have care. Ripard jumping up and down and screaming "torture" while in a position of power though, that makes them look, and forces CCP to respond. Of course they will say "oh yeah, we all think this is best", because they have to, but that doesn't make it truth. Just look at WoD. 2 days before the layoff CCP officially stated that the rumours of WoD being shutdown were false. I mean serious, do you know anything at all about how businesses work?
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ad hominem. Statement of fact actually, all you do is troll. Everybody knows this. You know this too. It's not even like you attempt to hide it.
As for the rest, continue to do whatever the hell you want. Continue to tell me about the "community at large". You have every right to state your opinions wherever you want. The fact that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and are unwilling to even look at the reality of the situation only strengthens my resolve. And before long, you will start throwing insults at me, then and ISD will come along and delete half your posts, like every other time. Are you planning on doing the "I'm leaving! No I'm not! I'm leaving! No I'm not! I'm leaving! No I'm not!" thing again too? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1054
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 10:37:00 -
[2639] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Prove it. Prove that the "community at large" is in support. What I find most amusing is that in the actual threadnaught about it, you guys were stating that all of the individual character MUST all just be Erotica 1 alts. If it's easier for you to live in denial and state clearly incorrect statements, then by all means proceed.
It has already been proven. Chribbas stats and a tally of positions for and against in the threadnaught show this, as does community response to CCPs actions.
Lucas Kell wrote:Show me where I stated that the majority supports Erotica 1. I didn't, anywhere. The majority do not give a crap one way or the other, which is why when your fallback argument is "the community at large supports this decision", it's clearly incorrect. You are overselling your position by a long shot.
False and irrelevant. The only vocal minority, was the small repeat poster group of Erotica1 beneficiaries. The huge majority of independant posters spoke out against Erotica1s activities.
Lucas Kell wrote:I didn't claim they broke the ToS, I claimed they went against what it says about their jurisdiction, as well as what they have previously told victims of third party harassment. go ahead, go and read it, you'll find it states: "We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site.".
But since you obviously support this decision, why are you not campaigning for the reversal of the decision made on previous tickets about third party harassment where CCP responded with their usual "no our problem"? And if you support them taking action, why are you not in support of them making it clear that it is an issue they deal with?
CCP can do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want. Deal with it.
Lucas Kell wrote:Bullshit. This and prior uprisings has shown that CCP can't do what they want. They can be easily pushed into certain actions by players and groups powerful enough to threaten them with bad press.
What Erotica 1 did was nothing, it's been done for years and nobody gave a crap. If the victim himself had gone to the gaming media sites, they wouldn't have care. Ripard jumping up and down and screaming "torture" while in a position of power though, that makes them look, and forces CCP to respond. Of course they will say "oh yeah, we all think this is best", because they have to, but that doesn't make it truth. Just look at WoD. 2 days before the layoff CCP officially stated that the rumours of WoD being shutdown were false. I mean serious, do you know anything at all about how businesses work?
The community at large and CSM all supported CCPs actions, as well as overseeing them. Your argument is moot and void, because the game continues perfectly fine and its only you whining here.
Lucas Kell wrote:Statement of fact actually, all you do is troll. Everybody knows this. You know this too. It's not even like you attempt to hide it.
As for the rest, continue to do whatever the hell you want. Continue to tell me about the "community at large". You have every right to state your opinions wherever you want. The fact that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and are unwilling to even look at the reality of the situation only strengthens my resolve. And before long, you will start throwing insults at me, then and ISD will come along and delete half your posts, like every other time. Are you planning on doing the "I'm leaving! No I'm not! I'm leaving! No I'm not! I'm leaving! No I'm not!" thing again too?
And still you refuse to a voice comm debate to support your position. And still you refuse to address your "questions" to the proper party, namely CCP. And yet despite your repetition of nonsense that has been refuted and debunked repeatedly, you still persist in your whining. ------------ |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1148
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 10:57:00 -
[2640] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3173
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 12:41:00 -
[2641] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:It has already been proven. Chribbas stats and a tally of positions for and against in the threadnaught show this, as does community response to CCPs actions. You clearly don't understand what "community at large" means. Even if every unique poster on the whole thread was in support, they still wouldn't be "the community at large". You are basically saying that the group of people that is more vocal is a representation of the entire community, which it is not.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:False and irrelevant. The only vocal minority, was the small repeat poster group of Erotica1 beneficiaries. The huge majority of independant posters spoke out against Erotica1s activities. Prove it. Show me the "huge majority". Basically you are once again falling into the false assumption that everyone that was against you was an Erotica 1 alt, while we are supposed to believe everyone against him was "independent". And in either case you still fail to show what would constitute a majority.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:CCP can do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want. Deal with it. And I can protest against any decision I want. Deal with it. I'd also like to add, where were you "dealing with it" when you were exploding into fits of rage that CCP want to change the reprocessing of loot. Hypocrite.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The community at large and CSM all supported CCPs actions, as well as overseeing them. Your argument is moot and void, because the game continues perfectly fine and its only you whining here. You still haven't shown me this "community at large", which invalidates almost everything you've been saying, since that's your only fallback argument. Repeating that phrase won't suddenly make it true. The only thing that will prove that to be true is if you can get me 25000 unique responders to show that the majority of the playerbase is in support. Until then, your "community at large" responses are a load of tripe.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:And still you refuse to a voice comm debate to support your position. And still you refuse to address your "questions" to the proper party, namely CCP. And yet despite your repetition of nonsense that has been refuted and debunked repeatedly, you still persist in your whining. What POSSIBLE reason would I have to want to listen to you sperging at me over a voice comms? Nothing you say would change my point of view, I would simply have to waste my time listening to you go on and on and on and on about it. Choosing to avoid listening to you drone on doesn't show anything. Once again you are trying to use nonsense arguments because your position is weak. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1059
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 12:57:00 -
[2642] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You clearly don't understand what "community at large" means. Even if every unique poster on the whole thread was in support, they still wouldn't be "the community at large". You are basically saying that the group of people that is more vocal is a representation of the entire community, whch it is not.
The community that chose to speak on the matter, are worth their word. The majority of the independant commentary in the threadnaught was condemning of Erotica1s acrivities. Of those who chose to speak, the majority are in favor of CCPs actions.
Lucas Kell wrote:Prove it. Show me the "huge majority". Basically you are once again falling into the false assumpton that everyone that was against you was an Erotica 1 alt, while we are supposed to believe everyone against him was "independent". And in either case you still fail to show what would constitute a majority.
Porve that the majority supported what Erotica1 was up to. Prove that the majority of the community disagrees with how CCP handled it. Oh, you cant?
Lucas Kell wrote:And I can protest against any decision I want. Deal with it. I'd also like to add, where were you "dealing with it" when you were exploding into fits of rage that CCP want to change the reprocessing of loot. Hypocrite.
Fits of rage? Oh my lols. I am not even directly affected by the changes :D Try again!
Lucas Kell wrote:You still haven't shown me this "community at large", which invalidates almost everything you've been saying, since that's your only fallback argument. Repeating that phrase won't suddenly make it true. The only thing that will prove that to be true is if you can get me 25000 unique responders to show that the majority of the playerbase is in support. Until then, your "community at large" responses are a load of tripe.
Show me how the community at large is against how CCP managed this matter? Oh, you cant?
]Lucas Kell wrote:What POSSIBLE reason would I have to want to listen to you sperging at me over a voice comms? Nothing you say would change my point of view, I would simply have to waste my time listening to you go on and on and on and on about it. Choosing to avoid listening to you drone on doesn't show anything. Once again you are trying to use nonsense arguments because your position is weak.
And yet you contiune in this thread, repeating, almost exactly, in every post, the same debunked and refuted fail arguments.
You are afraid of a direct and real-time discussion on the topic. Its that simple really. Instead of accepting it as an opportunity to debate your side of the matter, you resort to petty ad-hominems as an excuse to evade it. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3175
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 13:09:00 -
[2643] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The community that chose to speak on the matter, are worth their word. The majority of the independant commentary in the threadnaught was condemning of Erotica1s acrivities. Of those who chose to speak, the majority are in favor of CCPs actions. So you mean, the vocal minority then. And HA! You determine "independent" by looking at who is in support of what you are saying and going "yup, he's independent", then looking at people against you and saying "he's an alt". So that's complete and utter rubbish, not at all based in fact.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Porve that the majority supported what Erotica1 was up to. Prove that the majority of the community disagrees with how CCP handled it. Oh, you cant? Show me where I stated that the majority support Erotica 1. Go on, take a hunt around. I didn't ever state such a thing. The majority of the playerbase couldn't care less one way or another. Try reading once in a while and you'll realise this is the third time I've told you this in response to you stating this exact same thing. Both sides of this are a minority.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Fits of rage? Oh my lols. I am not even directly affected by the changes :D Try again! Ha, eve-search will still have the unedited thread buddy, so you might want to go reread some of the garbage you came out with on that thread before trying to sideline out of that one. You even rage quit the thread at one point, then refused to stay quit. It was very very amusing, but rage nonetheless.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Show me how the community at large is against how CCP managed this matter? Oh, you cant? See above, genius. I do love how you keep leaping into this "AHA!" moment about things I've never stated, like you've caught me out somehow.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:And yet you contiune in this thread, repeating, almost exactly, in every post, the same debunked and refuted fail arguments.
You are afraid of a direct and real-time discussion on the topic. Its that simple really. Instead of accepting it as an opportunity to debate your side of the matter, you resort to petty ad-hominems as an excuse to evade it. lol, no, I just do not like you. How can you not understand that the absolute last thing on my to do list is "speak to a troll on voice comms"? I find reading your tirades of nonsense text during your brief periods of activity to be a dull enough experience, there's no way that I want to add listening to you talk at me (note, it wouldn't be talking "with" me, since you don't listen to what people say) to my day. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 08:36:00 -
[2644] - Quote
At the risk of sounding like Bill Clinton, what we really need here is a strongly outlined definition of what Harassment consists of in the eyes of CCP.
"That depends on what the meaning of "is" is." - Bill Clinton
Someone made a post in EVE General Discussion that an ISD member labeled as a "Rant". The post was about the naming of stations and some people just in general giving away Game of Thrones spoilers.
Based on the definition of the word Harassment, that "Rant" post would be much more easily recognizable as "real life harassment." Because it is the act of disturbing, pestering and troubling repeatedly. Naming stations as a spoiler to a book or moving has no other intent than to harass people in real life. And yes i have been a victim of said harassment and i didn't have the option to avoid it.
That being said, the issue this discussion is about did have an "opt-out" decision available. The "victim" of the scam was a victim of his own poor decision making. He chose to give all his assets away. He chose to go on team speak and be recorded. He chose to continue time and time again. He chose not to believe that he had been scammed.
To be tortured requires that the victim not have the ability to leave. If this were not the case then Television shows such as "Fear Factor" or "Naked and Afraid" would be in a compromising situation wouldn't they? (though i suppose they're required to pay up when their criteria is met, though 21days is quite longer than a few hours.) Though it may seem like torture, the victims (aka contestants) are subjecting themselves to the conditions, not the network. Just like with S & M (Sadism and Masochism) there is a "torturer" but it is on the permission of the masochistic party. The same cannot be said about the Spoilers floating around.
So here I ask,
What is considered "real life harassment" in the eyes of CCP in accordance with the TOS and EULA? |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
719
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 15:01:00 -
[2645] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:...
What is considered "real life harassment" in the eyes of CCP in accordance with the TOS and EULA?
Any clear cut definition of such would be immediately open to gaming by determined harassment-merchants. Which would have as a consequence even more rules and definitions, strangling the game. Definitions and rules such as this would put the ball firmly in the griefer's court, making CCP permanently reactionary. Instead, the TOS and EULA are right there for you to read, CCP reserves the right to ban players temporarily or permanently as they see fit, without getting dragged into some childish haggle about rules which could drain resources or even endanger the bottom line. Now that i've made it plain and country simple, anybody asking for definitions of RL harassment must be considered a troll.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
709
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 15:42:00 -
[2646] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:...
What is considered "real life harassment" in the eyes of CCP in accordance with the TOS and EULA? Any clear cut definition of such would be immediately open to gaming by determined harassment-merchants.
Sorry, thats neither an excuse nor our problem
If CCP think that clear rules will create more problems that shows a much larger problem in this game and with this company in general. And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Cathy Mikakka
Black Serpent Technologies
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 15:56:00 -
[2647] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I have refrained from public comment on this issue because of all the ongoing CSM/CCP consultations, but now that CCP has issued their statement, I feel it is only appropriate to give my perspective.
Lying, cheating, general douchebaggery and the harvesting of tears are all part of the "sandbox" that is the game of EVE Online.
But that said, all of us have a responsibility to recognize when a fellow player is starting to lose emotional control -- when things stop being a game -- and respond in a humane manner. And deliberately trying to induce and deepen that loss of control is reprehensible conduct that should shock and dismay the vast majority of the community.
So the tl/dr for me is: Feel free be a douchebag inside the sandbox, but if you kick the sand outside of the sandbox, don't be surprised if CCP kicks you out of the sandbox as well.
Stuff like losing your sh*t on comms and bitching out the people in your fleet is not something I would worry about. Nor is making people sing for their ship.
But if you make someone sing for their ship and then sadistically wratchet up the psychological pressure until they are a total wreck, then you're a real-life scumbag, and I won't shed a tear if CCP decides they no longer care to do business with you.
This makes no sense. So you can do it and the moment target goes apeshit, you are supposed to do what? Disconnect/Kick him? Apologize and return his stuff? Neither of those two options seems plausible. Why return his stuff? And if you kick/disconnect then that might agitate them even more. What E1 did was trying to calm him down and that *is* the most appropriate thing to do. And that netted him ban. Go figure.... |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
719
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 16:05:00 -
[2648] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:...
What is considered "real life harassment" in the eyes of CCP in accordance with the TOS and EULA? Any clear cut definition of such would be immediately open to gaming by determined harassment-merchants. Sorry, thats neither an excuse nor our problem If CCP think that clear rules will create more problems that shows a much larger problem in this game and with this company in general.
LOL i swear there's some people in this thread who sound exactly like people who've just been removed from a nightclub. They stand around telling security staff how the club should be run, get into plainly ridiculous conversations about their rights and the law, noisily chewing a bit of air before leaving. Here's why more/clearer rules would make more problems: You can't legislate for common sense.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3179
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 16:28:00 -
[2649] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:...
What is considered "real life harassment" in the eyes of CCP in accordance with the TOS and EULA? Any clear cut definition of such would be immediately open to gaming by determined harassment-merchants. Sorry, thats neither an excuse nor our problem If CCP think that clear rules will create more problems that shows a much larger problem in this game and with this company in general. LOL i swear there's some people in this thread who sound exactly like people who've just been removed from a nightclub. They stand around telling security staff how the club should be run, get into plainly ridiculous conversations about their rights and the law, noisily chewing a bit of air before leaving. Here's why more/clearer rules would make more problems: You can't legislate for common sense. Don't be ridiculous. You have a game full of multiple players of multiple languages, cultures, ages and temperaments. This is why CCP needs to state hat THEY think is harassment, since it's their rules we are supposed to abide by. Just look at this damn thread and you can see that people limits are vastly different.
Suggesting the "rules lawyer" thing is utter bull and you know it. There are plenty of rules that CCP have stated explicitly in their ToS and EULA, including their rules on third party comms up until this point, and there's not been complaints about rules lawyering before. And it's not like people can't rules lawyer right now, they just have to ensure they don't post up proof under their name and shazzam, they can harass all they want.
I get why you are arguing against it though. You want to keep the line as fuzzy as possible, so people are constrained by fear into doing absolutely nothing to upset people, that way you can live in carebear land and just scream at people if they do anything you don't like, knowing they have to back off or be unsure of whether they'll get banned. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
84
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 18:27:00 -
[2650] - Quote
I WISH TO SAY SOMETHING IMPORTANT!!111!!!
Oh wait, no I don't because it's already been said and nothing will be changing...
In the meantime let me return you to the torrent of tears from the usual suspects, ENJOY! |
|
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 18:48:00 -
[2651] - Quote
Cry me a river!!!! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3185
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 18:55:00 -
[2652] - Quote
lol, you guys love to just chant "tears tears tears" when people disagree with your opinions, it's pretty amusing. People can in fact see that nothing here even remotely resembles tears. You guys just make yourselves look pretty dense with that being your only possible retort, especially when it rolls round to a time where CCP nerfs a carebear element of the game and you start shrieking at the top of your lungs about how unfair it is. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2968
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 19:10:00 -
[2653] - Quote
Removed some off topic posts. Please keep it on topic and civil. Thanks. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3366
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 19:20:00 -
[2654] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Removed some off topic posts. Please keep it on topic and civil. Thanks.
Please close this thread, its simply keeping a very very very powdered equine in a state of suspended animation *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
410
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 19:23:00 -
[2655] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.
and several that did not break rules or insult others.
Unless pointing out that the system, as stands, promotes and obfuscates abuse of the system, rather than exposes it, is 'an insult'.
If that's the case, the only insult here is the one to our intelligence from CCP.
Because, frankly, CCP is not seen as trustworthy. There have been too many situations where CCP employees have covered for their pals or come down like a ton of bricks on someone they did not like. Now you sit there and give us very very vague grounds for a new rule that results in a lifetime permaban, after at least one very high profile case that could have lead to someone's death was only given a 30 day suspension.
WTF?
Is it unreasonable, or insulting, to demand clear rules and transparency from CCP? The only argument against that I see is someone arguing that people would lawyer their way out of it.
Frankly, this whole thing has the potential to end badly for CCP if they DON'T have clear and public rules for this. The EULA does not offer protection in US courts from tort, and the line about the laws of Iceland applying conflicts with US precedent for lex loci contractus over the internet. (the prevailing view in this case is that the contract took place in the US rather than Iceland, and that, depending on jurisdiction, the EULA has no legal power in the first place).
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3366
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 19:26:00 -
[2656] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Because, frankly, CCP is not seen as trustworthy. There have been too many situations where CCP employees have covered for their pals or come down like a ton of bricks on someone they did not like. Now you sit there and give us very very vague grounds for a new rule that results in a lifetime permaban, after at least one very high profile case that could have lead to someone's death was only given a 30 day suspension.
This is the single most insane gibberish I have had the misfortune to read on the entire internet today
If you promise to delete it, I promise to delete my quote of it *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1296
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 22:26:00 -
[2657] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:It's not the line that's blurry, it's your comprehension. The line is perfectly clear. Not that 'the line' has anything to do with the rules except in the most general sense. The rules, as CCP has told you, are specifically non-specific for a very good reason. One that I accept as making sense and keeping things under control without trying to force gameplay. You want to destroy that player latitude by having CCP make hard and fast rules. It's you that wants to ruin the game by restricting sandbox play. Mr Epeen No, I don;t want hard and fast rules, I just want more clarity than "if another player gets upset, stop". Since some players get upset about almost anything, while others you could murder their families without worry, that's incredibly subjective and impossible to gauge. Then add onto that the fact that prior to this CCP state EXPLICITLY that they DO NOT deal with third party tools. Now they at least deal with some, so WHICH do they now deal with. It's not a hard set of questions and it's not unreasonable to ask. Look at what has happened here. Something that last year was perfectly acceptable, and hasn't changed at all is not unacceptable because a CSM member started a hate campaign. Asking for an explanation of the extent to which their rules have changed, or just clarification that this was a once off due to abuse of a CSM power would be nice to know. I don't want to be responding to someone on twitter then suddenly find my account banned because some random CSM thought my words were too harsh for their liking. This. What if someone feels humiliated if I post a video of me destroying his shiny ship and laughing about it whilst I narrate the thing. Will I get a ban then, or will that happen if a csm member decides to include it in a crusade of his? Theres WAAAAAAY too much butthurt caused by pixel destruction to gauge your in game behavior on that level of butthurt Btw, how much longer are these replies gonna get lol
No Butthurt here lol, the fact remains however that all was well in the world of Eve until Ripard Teg began his campaigning. Do we infer from this that we can do anything we like until someone blogs about it? This is the core of the issue. Do you only get banned when CCP get bad publicity? Is that the invisible line, because if so there's no way of knowing if you've crossed it until someone popular blogs about it afterwards.
Hardly a fair way to run a company is it?
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Salvos Rhoska
1065
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 22:39:00 -
[2658] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Do you only get banned when CCP get bad publicity? Not the only way to get banned, but a pretty likely way.
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Hardly a fair way to run a company is it?
Lol, please. ------------ |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
723
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 23:45:00 -
[2659] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:...
No Butthurt here lol, the fact remains however that all was well in the world of Eve until Ripard Teg began his campaigning. Do we infer from this that we can do anything we like until someone blogs about it? This is the core of the issue. Do you only get banned when CCP get bad publicity? Is that the invisible line, because if so there's no way of knowing if you've crossed it until someone popular blogs about it afterwards.
Hardly a fair way to run a company is it?
I don't know about Ripard Teg's influence but it sure sounds like he garnered some serious support. I wonder how? It seems to me that if you spend months on end griefing people in highsec and doing nothing else, you leave yourself open to exactly that sort of metagame. Also the contention that i want the rules fuzzy so i can be a sleepy carebear is a weak way to turn it around. Griefers want to have clear rules they can pick apart, solid rules that limit CCP actions. I live in lowsec and kill FW farmers and the shiny people that try to kill them, it's great. None of this has changed that one bit. But this disgraceful nonsense is why i've always said: get out of highsec.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3185
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 01:05:00 -
[2660] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:I don't know about Ripard Teg's influence but it sure sounds like he garnered some serious support. I wonder how? It seems to me that if you spend months on end griefing people in highsec and doing nothing else, you leave yourself open to exactly that sort of metagame. I'm sure him being vice chair of the CSM had nothing to do with it right?
Chopper Rollins wrote:Also the contention that i want the rules fuzzy so i can be a sleepy carebear is a weak way to turn it around. You are supporting a change which does just that. How else can it be seen?
Chopper Rollins wrote:Griefers want to have clear rules they can pick apart, solid rules that limit CCP actions. Citation needed. Really. I've not seen ANY evidence whatsoever that this is the case. I've seen you guys state it, but I've never actually seen any evidence that this situation exists. And that's because it's rubbish. It's made up to give you an artificial footing.
And think about it, if people actively want to harass, they still can by distancing themselves from it. Making a ruling or not doesn't change that for people that actually aim to harass. The only people hit by this change are people who want to play the villain (as suggested by CCP) and RP with it. Now they have no way of knowing if the random guy they just blew up and laughed at is going to cry harassment. Now they don't know if someone going apeshit over their space pixels means they have to immediately stop or not. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
724
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 01:34:00 -
[2661] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:I don't know about Ripard Teg's influence but it sure sounds like he garnered some serious support. I wonder how? It seems to me that if you spend months on end griefing people in highsec and doing nothing else, you leave yourself open to exactly that sort of metagame. I'm sure him being vice chair of the CSM had nothing to do with it right? Chopper Rollins wrote:Also the contention that i want the rules fuzzy so i can be a sleepy carebear is a weak way to turn it around. You are supporting a change which does just that. How else can it be seen? Chopper Rollins wrote:Griefers want to have clear rules they can pick apart, solid rules that limit CCP actions. Citation needed. Really. I've not seen ANY evidence whatsoever that this is the case. I've seen you guys state it, but I've never actually seen any evidence that this situation exists. And that's because it's rubbish. It's made up to give you an artificial footing. And think about it, if people actively want to harass, they still can by distancing themselves from it. Making a ruling or not doesn't change that for people that actually aim to harass. The only people hit by this change are people who want to play the villain (as suggested by CCP) and RP with it. Now they have no way of knowing if the random guy they just blew up and laughed at is going to cry harassment. Now they don't know if someone going apeshit over their space pixels means they have to immediately stop or not.
1) CSM position had everything to do with it, that's exactly what i said. Also said griefing hisec for months on end leaves you vulnerable to that. Read, dude. 2) What change? I am against hard and fast rules that limit CCP actions, they can do what they want and that is a GOOD THING. 3) Citation needed for common sense. Right. 4) Seems like you actually mean all this and won't listen to anyone.
Again, none of this affects my playstyle, or will. If hisec gets changed so griefers have to move to low or null i would welcome that. Judging from their playstyle, it would mean they would disappear. Hazing the rookie pond, meh.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
711
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 02:56:00 -
[2662] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Because, frankly, CCP is not seen as trustworthy. There have been too many situations where CCP employees have covered for their pals or come down like a ton of bricks on someone they did not like. Now you sit there and give us very very vague grounds for a new rule that results in a lifetime permaban, after at least one very high profile case that could have lead to someone's death was only given a 30 day suspension.
This is a bit inaccurate, to say the least
*cough*T20*cough*
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Do you only get banned when CCP get bad publicity? Not the only way to get banned, but a pretty likely way.
Ask Kugutsumen
thats why he got banned. And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
711
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 03:03:00 -
[2663] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:...
No Butthurt here lol, the fact remains however that all was well in the world of Eve until Ripard Teg began his campaigning. Do we infer from this that we can do anything we like until someone blogs about it? This is the core of the issue. Do you only get banned when CCP get bad publicity? Is that the invisible line, because if so there's no way of knowing if you've crossed it until someone popular blogs about it afterwards.
Hardly a fair way to run a company is it?
I don't know about Ripard Teg's influence but it sure sounds like he garnered some serious support. I wonder how? It seems to me that if you spend months on end griefing people in highsec and doing nothing else, you leave yourself open to exactly that sort of metagame.
Ah so you accept that this is the new layer to EVE?
Chopper Rollins wrote:
1) CSM position had everything to do with it, that's exactly what i said. Also said griefing hisec for months on end leaves you vulnerable to that. Read, dude.
what is griefing?
Thats all I wanna know so I know who to report. And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 04:54:00 -
[2664] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote: Any clear cut definition of such would be immediately open to gaming by determined harassment-merchants. Which would have as a consequence even more rules and definitions, strangling the game. Definitions and rules such as this would put the ball firmly in the griefer's court, making CCP permanently reactionary. Instead, the TOS and EULA are right there for you to read, CCP reserves the right to ban players temporarily or permanently as they see fit, without getting dragged into some childish haggle about rules which could drain resources or even endanger the bottom line. Now that i've made it plain and country simple, anybody asking for definitions of RL harassment must be considered a troll.
Edit: TV show spoilers as RL harassment, you are unlikely to garner much sympathetic support on that one. Unless you were joking, in which case 5/10 for making me respond.
Support or not, the TV show spoilers are definitely a type of harassment targeting players in Real Life because of the fact that the TV show does not exist in game. The players are gaining the leverage through EVE Online to execute this harassment upon persons in Real Life. And i promise you, the reactions of this kind of harassment will at the very least match equally the reactions of the very worst bonus room incidents.
Here's the point, which you seem to have over looked in your excitement to recite possible legal consequences, CCP has made a decision based upon their TOS and EULA that sets a precedent as to how they interperate what Real Life harassment consists of. You see, by making this decision they have put themselves in the position of haggling about rules, and it has definitely drained resources.
So now we're at this point where a definite action has been taken based on this interpretation of the TOS/EULA and now we can make comparisons. Trash talking is a harassment type of player action directed at another player in real life. Should this be bannable? What if i trash talk someone at work about their EVE situations? What if i scam someone i know in real life and make them do things outside of EVE or even the internet entierly? Here we are at that point where this Ruling is strangling the game.
My ultimate point is this. CCP should not get involved with the decisions people make, however poor or self destructive they are. The bonus room is all about decision making.
The first decision is to gamble away all of your assets on faith. The second decision is to "play" the game while being recorded. The third decision is to continue to "play" the game for hours and not give up on your lost assets.
There is not a clear line between in game and real life because EVE is real. EVE is human interaction in a sci-fi setting. Nothing more and nothing less. Real Life harassment is intrinsic to the nature of human interaction. |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
724
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 06:51:00 -
[2665] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:...
My ultimate point is this. CCP should not get involved with the decisions people make, however poor or self destructive they are. The bonus room is all about decision making. ... There is not a clear line between in game and real life because EVE is real. EVE is human interaction in a sci-fi setting. Nothing more and nothing less. Real Life harassment is intrinsic to the nature of human interaction.
The bonus room is all about decision making huh? So the victim is at fault. Save that wall o text you just dropped and read it again the day some poor dingbat flips out and kills himself over something like this. It's only a matter of time. Better yet, imagine what that poor dingbat's loved ones would think about your superior vulcan logic. The line between in-game and RL is not clear and CCP is allowed to be as arbitrary as they want to be. Real Life harassment is intrinsic to the nature of human interaction? My what a morally neutral thing to say. So is cannibalism. Intrinsic to the nature of human interaction covers a lot of ground, most of it morally reprehensible. Which brings us back to square one, CCP reserves the right to flush you away if you act in a way they don't like. You agree to that when you log on. Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 07:23:00 -
[2666] - Quote
This thread is getting more absurd by the minute. Let's try another approach of the situation.
Premise 1: - Ripard Teg is a CSM member which posted a blog about an event that he found reprehensible. - All CSM members are elected by EVE players but they can be Vetoed by CCP.
Question: - Why did CCP aligned their view of the event in concordance with Ripard Teg?
Answer: Variant 1 - CCP considers that Ripard Teg view on the event is correct and they also find the said event reprehensible. Variant 2 - CCP doesn't consider that Teg is right but they acknowledge that the majority of its costumers/potential costumers supports Tegs views and they were forced into action by economics and marketing reasons.
Addendum - Bad vs Good publicity is an assertion made with the public view in mind.
Premise 2: - Rules and regulations are adopted in order to limit some behaviors and to bring uniformity in society, they are part of the so called social contract. - Humans have an intrinsic fear of unknown.
Question: - Adopting rules and regulation in order to better define the world and reduce the unknown, results in more or less freedom of action?
Answer: Reasoning - Rules and regulation will create hard barriers which will limit the freedom of action. Fear of unknown is not an universal constant and while is true that it can determine human behavior it doesn't absolutely deny certain actions. Conclusion - Rules and regulations limit freedom of action while fear of unknown is merely a risk assessment tool.
Premise 3 (Captain Obvious): - CCP is a software company that provides a service of entertainment to its costumers. - CCP operates under the rules of free market.
Questions: - Should CCP have the right to deny service to any individual that they consider a threat to their business model? - Should costumers that don't approve CCP policies deny CCP their particular business?
Answers: - Yes - Yes
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 07:46:00 -
[2667] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:2) What change? I am against hard and fast rules that limit CCP actions, they can do what they want and that is a GOOD THING. They already have several hard and fast rules, and they've never done them badly. They do;t need their action limited by them either as such, just guidelines on approximately when they will act and when they won't. Like what mediums they will cover, etc.
Chopper Rollins wrote:3) Citation needed for common sense. Right. This doesn;t even make sense, did you even read what I wrote? It's not "common sense" to assume that people will "rules lawyer" with absolutely no evidence that such a phenomenon even exists. Or is this just your way of conceding that such a thing is completely made up? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1069
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 07:53:00 -
[2668] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:I don't know about Ripard Teg's influence but it sure sounds like he garnered some serious support. I wonder how? It seems to me that if you spend months on end griefing people in highsec and doing nothing else, you leave yourself open to exactly that sort of metagame. I'm sure him being vice chair of the CSM had nothing to do with it right?
I think I see why you are having trouble with this.
Am I correct in assuming you are from the UK?
To the wider reader, the UK has somewhat of a different political system than many countries, in that all of their Cabinet members, which are the Ministers of the various institutions of state, are expected at all times and in all public appearances, to toe the party line and support the Prime Minister. All disagreements are expected to be handled privately, within the Cabinet, and the only way for a Minister to publically express dissent, is by resigning from their position as Minister.
This is why Lucas may be having difficulty understanding the sifference between having an office, and still being a free individual.
Lucas, yes, you are correct. Public reaction to what Erotica1 was doing, has absolutely nothing to do with Ripards position as vice cbair.His position as such, does not exclude him from blogging whatever he wants, or infringe on his autonomous freedom and right of expression, except for voilating the NDA, which he did not do, and even in which case 8f he had, its up to CCP, and CCP alone, whether they take action or not.
He didnt present the blog as a CSM, or as vice chair of that, but as a private person. Public reaction was clearly extremely negative of what Erotica1 had been up to. The CSM have expressed that they are, as a body, satisfied Erotica1 received due process and xonsideration. CSM also have their support of the statement written into it.
I understand its hard for ypu tp grasp, comprehend or axcept this, but it is nonetheless exactly so. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 07:55:00 -
[2669] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:The bonus room is all about decision making huh? So the victim is at fault. Save that wall o text you just dropped and read it again the day some poor dingbat flips out and kills himself over something like this. It's only a matter of time. Better yet, imagine what that poor dingbat's loved ones would think about your superior vulcan logic. The line between in-game and RL is not clear and CCP is allowed to be as arbitrary as they want to be. Real Life harassment is intrinsic to the nature of human interaction? My what a morally neutral thing to say. So is cannibalism. Intrinsic to the nature of human interaction covers a lot of ground, most of it morally reprehensible. Which brings us back to square one, CCP reserves the right to flush you away if you act in a way they don't like. You agree to that when you log on. If someone is so pathetic and weak that they kill themselves over losing space pixels in a chat room they had full control of leaving, then the world is better of without them. A normal person wouldn't be upset by that situation, and the rules should be designed for normal people. If the rules are changed to cater for the weakest people then the game will indeed turn into carebear land, since it's just as feasible that someone kills themselves after you don't uphold a ransom and pod them after they pay you.
And yes, CCP can boot your for whatever they want. Stop saying that as if that's the answer to the whole thing. Just because they CAN kick you doesn't mean they SHOULD, and it certainly would affect their business if they just started kicking people because they felt like it. In this instance, they banned a player because a single CSM member publicly attacked them, which is hardly the best example of CCPs. "Be the villain, just don't **** of the wrong guy because we'll ban you without even telling you why". The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:01:00 -
[2670] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Answer: Variant 1 - CCP considers that Ripard Teg view on the event is correct and they also find the said event reprehensible. Variant 2 - CCP doesn't consider that Teg is right but they acknowledge that the majority of its costumers/potential costumers supports Tegs views and they were forced into action by economics and marketing reasons. Variant 3 - CCP had previously decided the situation was fine but due to bad publicity brought on by the Vice Chair of the CSM making absurd statements, decided to take action against a single player to stem the wound. (note, majority of it's consumers has yet be de demonstrated, it's a couple of hundred at most).
Loko Crackhead wrote: Questions: - Should CCP have the right to deny service to any individual that they consider a threat to their business model? - Should costumers that don't approve CCP policies deny CCP their particular business?
Should CCP operate under fair rules and provided oversight on what those views entail to allow all players to make educated decisions in game rather than guessing and hoping (you know, like they do for all the other rules, and did up until now on their third party comms rules)?
Answer:Yes The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
1069
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:02:00 -
[2671] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:]If someone is so pathetic and weak that they kill themselves over losing space pixels in a chat room they had full control of leaving, then the world is better of without them.
Gj, you lost lost even the superficial appearance of moral high ground.
------------ |
Salvos Rhoska
1069
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:12:00 -
[2672] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: A normal person wouldn't be upset by that situation, and the rules should be designed for normal people.
Not only a heinous sentiment, but one that is categorically flse, and on so many levels.
Its like you dont understand at all how the world works.
Rules are there to protect people from other people, not for being weak, but because the other person has chosen to conduct themselces in a fashion that is detrimental to the culture of the whole. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:15:00 -
[2673] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Am I correct in assuming you are from the UK?
To the wider reader, the UK has somewhat of a different political system than many countries, in that all of their Cabinet members, which are the Ministers of the various institutions of state, are expected at all times and in all public appearances, to toe the party line and support the Prime Minister. All disagreements are expected to be handled privately, within the Cabinet, and the only way for a Minister to publically express dissent, is by resigning from their position as Minister. This informal expectation, extends into their private life and their blogging also. In all things public, they must always support the PM. You are correct that I'm from the UK, though you appear to have no knowledge of UK politics. People do not "toe the line or resign", and they can (and do) say whatever they want. While the core government group is made up of a single political party (who will more often than not agree as they serve the same agenda), other parties also have chairs thus disagreements occur all the time.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas, yes, you are correct. Public reaction to what Erotica1 was doing, has absolutely nothing to do with Ripards position as vice cbair.His position as such, does not exclude him from blogging whatever he wants, or infringe on his autonomous freedom and right of expression, except for voilating the NDA, which he did not do, and even in which case 8f he had, its up to CCP, and CCP alone, whether they take action or not.
He didnt present the blog as a CSM, or as vice chair of that, but as a private person. Public reaction was clearly extremely negative of what Erotica1 had been up to, and is not a result of the blog, but of Erotica1s activities. It makes no difference if the blog was written by Ripard, me, your mother, or 1mil monkeys at the keyboard. The CSM have expressed that they are, as a body, satisfied Erotica1 received due process and xonsideration. CSM also have their support of the statement written into it.
I understand its hard for ypu tp grasp, comprehend or axcept this, but it is nonetheless exactly so. While he's not forced to silence and has the freedonm to say whatever he wants, it's unfair for him to target a single individual, as he has so much sway with the general public. He's vice chair of the CSM, which is why he's able to get what he says into the mainstream media so quickly. Nobody would be able to survive that onslaught. And you can be damn sure if someone like GEvlon Goblin wrote that blog, nothing would have happened, CCP would have just ignored it and moved on. To suggest that him being a CSM member made no difference is totally and utterly ludicrous.
Now if this is a sign that the CSM is going to abuse their position and out the things they don't like going forward, then I'd be in full support of removing the entire CSM. They not only have the ability to post tickets, but they have a direct line to CCP, so starting a hate campaign against an individual is not only unfair, but it's unnecessary too. If Ripard had just spoken to CCP privately, and CCP had silently banned Erotica 1, this whole situations wouldn't have occured, but no, he made it public, meaning CCP were forced to respond publicly, which incites not just a single ban but a culture change, which is what Ripard has wanted for years. What's next eh? I mean thank god he's not running for CSM again, he hates non-mutual war decs and ganking too. I can't imagine how terrible this game would be if he continued forcing his agenda, The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:17:00 -
[2674] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: A normal person wouldn't be upset by that situation, and the rules should be designed for normal people. Not only a heinous sentiment, but one that is categorically flse, and on so many levels. Its like you dont understand at all how the world works. Rules are there to protect people from other people, not for being weak, but because the other person has chosen to conduct themselces in a fashion that is detrimental to the culture of the whole. Indeed. RULES are there for that aren't they. So we are in agreement that what we need here are RULES. Glad you're on board. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1069
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:21:00 -
[2675] - Quote
Im not on board with any of your nonsense.
You dont have any ground, anywhere, in this issue to stand on.
I understand that you "dont get it", despite the matters being explained to you over and over, but that is your own problem.
------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:25:00 -
[2676] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Im not on board with any of your nonsense.
You dont have any ground, anywhere, in this issue to stand on.
I understand that you "dont get it", despite the matters being explained to you over and over, but that is your own problem. That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Opinions differ.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1069
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:35:00 -
[2677] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Im not on board with any of your nonsense.
You dont have any ground, anywhere, in this issue to stand on.
I understand that you "dont get it", despite the matters being explained to you over and over, but that is your own problem. That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Opinions differ.
Mine, however, is informed and justified by the facts of the matter.
It is further supported by the FACT that CSM have stated, as a body, that they are satisfied Erotica1 received due process and consideration. Their support of the issued statement is also written into it.
CCP took action, of which the CSM are supportive.
Yours is based on spurious and false allegations, founded in an incorrect understanding of what constitutes someones freedom of expression.
Your whole chain of logic that "If Ripard was not vice chair, none of this would have happened", is a laughable claim. Prove it. You cannot.
It is irrelevant who wrote the blog, what is relevant, is what it revealed of Erotica1s activities.
You have ZERO ground to stand on to try and claim Ripard is somehow the bad guy here. All he did, was wrote a blog. He didn't even post in the threadnaught, nor did he start it.
Erotica1 is responsible for this chain of events. If Erotica1 had not been up to such activities, for so long, which when brought to light, elicited such a unanimous condemnation from the community, none of this would have been an issue. Its in much the same way as if there where no murderers or rapists in society, there would be no need for murder or **** laws. Unfortunately, there are people who do commit these acts.
Lucas Kell wrote:You are correct that I'm from the UK, though you appear to have no knowledge of UK politics. People do not "toe the line or resign", and they can (and do) say whatever they want. While the core government group is made up of a single political party (who will more often than not agree as they serve the same agenda), other parties also have chairs thus disagreements occur all the time.
I studied Constitutional Law for 2yrs in the UK, and can flat out say from the above that you do not understand the legal structure, both formal and informal, of your own government. Also, "chairs" is an incorrect term. Universities have "chairs", Ministries have "cases". ------------ |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:39:00 -
[2678] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote: The bonus room is all about decision making huh? So the victim is at fault. .... Real Life harassment is intrinsic to the nature of human interaction? My what a morally neutral thing to say. So is cannibalism. Intrinsic to the nature of human interaction covers a lot of ground, most of it morally reprehensible. Which brings us back to square one, CCP reserves the right to flush you away if you act in a way they don't like. You agree to that when you log on.
Let me ask you this question then. How likely is it that the victim will repeat the actions that led up to the situation? By making a different set of choices the person will not be a victim. So yes, the victim is at fault. He is a victim to his own poor decision making. It's not anyone's place to be a nanny for all the bad decision makers. Especially in EVE.
Cannibalism is not intrinsic to the nature of human interaction. Murder, maybe. Cannibalism, not so much.
The stance i take on this issue is not based on morality. It is based on freedom.
Eve is freedom. Eve is not morality.
Eve is a sandbox mmo that allows you the freedom to do whatever you want within the mechanics of the game. Or at least it was until the decision they made about this issue.
If EVE was a game about morals then there would be no non-consensual pvp, scamming and theft would be bannable offenses with full reimbursement to the victim, there would be no such thing as PLEX and the robots would lock us all up in our houses and not allow us to leave so we couldn't hurt ourselves to comply with the 3 laws on a grande level. Fortunately It's not a game about morals, it's a game about freedom. And I do so treasure freedom.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:]If someone is so pathetic and weak that they kill themselves over losing space pixels in a chat room they had full control of leaving, then the world is better of without them. Gj, you lost lost even the superficial appearance of moral high ground. Morality vs Freedom
Which would you choose?
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: A normal person wouldn't be upset by that situation, and the rules should be designed for normal people. Not only a heinous sentiment, but one that is categorically flse, and on so many levels. A normal person would not have ended up in that position in the first place because of their level of decision making. A person that does end up in that situation would do so because of a lack of decision making ability. However the results of the situation will remedy that lack in decision making ability fairly quickly.
i.e. A child puts their hand on a hot stove. Their hand gets burnt.
Do you : A: Get rid of the stove because it burned your child's hand. B: Console your child and continue to live life unchanged. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:49:00 -
[2679] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Mine, however, is informed and justified by the facts of the matter. lol, at least you think so.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Yours is based on spurious and false allegations, founded in an incorrect understanding of what constitutes someones freedom of expression. Is it? Or is mine mearly a demands for clarity and
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Your whole chain of logic that "If Ripard was not vice chair, none of this would have happened", is a laughable claim. Prove it. You cannot.
It is irrelevant who wrote the blog, what is relevant, is what it revealed of Erotica1s activities. So why, over the past year, when CCP have shown they have been made fully aware of the bonus room, was nothing ever done? This instance isn't even the worst, and was never reported by the victim.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erotica1 is responsible for this chain of events. If Erotica1 had not been up to such activities, for so long, which when brought to light, elicited such a unanimous condemnation from the community, none of this would have been an issue. Its in much the same way as if there where no murderers or rapists in society, there would be no need for murder or **** laws. Unfortunately, there are people who do commit these acts. I feel this shows where you are missing the point here. You are getting defensive because you think that what I want is Erotica 1 back in the game. I don;t. I just want CCP to show where the new lines are drawn. And there are new lines, that is a fact. Not only is it in their ToS, but they have explicitly stated that third party services are not covered by their rules. Now they obviously are in some circumstances. I, and many others, want the assurance that CCP have a set of rules they are following, rather than the whims of ranking individuals in the CSM. This thread does nothing to provide that assurance. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1069
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 08:49:00 -
[2680] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote: A normal person would not have ended up in that position in the first place because of their level of decision making. A person that does end up in that situation would do so because of a lack of decision making ability. However the results of the situation will remedy that lack in decision making ability fairly quickly.
i.e. A child puts their hand on a hot stove. Their hand gets burnt.
Do you : A: Get rid of the stove because it burned your child's hand. B: Console your child and continue to live life unchanged.
i.e. A woman is raped by a drunk man.
Do you: A: Outlaw raping because it caused harm to the woman. B: Console the woman and continue to live life unchanged.
Your "normal person" clause is just juvenile. No such concept exists in law, nor is it relevant.
This is the reason educations exist. In order to participate in an informed and rational fashion on complicated human matters such as law, you need to know what you are talking about, and from where the concepts stem from. ------------ |
|
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:03:00 -
[2681] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Mine, however, is informed and justified by the facts of the matter.
what facts?
Quote: Your whole chain of logic that "If Ripard was not vice chair, none of this would have happened", is a laughable claim. Prove it. You cannot.
You have ZERO ground to stand on to try and claim Ripard is somehow the bad guy here.
I personally don't think Ripard is a bad guy. I do think that he had a major role to play in how big of a deal this issue became. On this issue specifically, I totally disagree with Ripard's stance. Especially the torture analogy he made. To analogize the bonus room to torture does incredible injustice to anyone who has ever had to endure torture. As a representative of EVE Online I really think he should apologize for making that statement.
How's that for moral priorities?
Quote: Its in much the same way as if there where no murderers or rapists in society, there would be no need for murder or **** laws. Unfortunately, there are people who do commit these acts.
This is a very very bad analogy.
Murder and sexual assault (since **** is blocked?) are malicious acts against someone's will. **** by definition is non-consensual.
The bonus room was consensual. The "victim" consented to give away his stuff, to go on team speak, to be recorded, and to stay as long as he did.
Even "torture" can be consensual. It's called BDSM. But then it is no longer torture, just a fantasy of it. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:07:00 -
[2682] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:It is irrelevant why nothing was done till now. It has been DONE NOW. You now have the answer and reaction from CCP that you had been waiting for so long for. LOL, how is that irrelevant? It's practically the whole point. If CCP had turned around when they were first made aware of the bonus rooms and said "nope, not gonna happen", this would be no problem. The fact is they didn't, it was fine, for like a whole year. then a single CSM member goes of on a hate campaign and their whole view changes. That's a bad precedent to set.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:False. That is your imagination. Nowhere have I said I "think" that. You are prone to this. You can't differentiate between your own imaginary implications and inferences, and what has actually been said and shown to be the case. Then why do you keep telling me how Erotica 1 is responsible for his action when that has absolutely nothing to do with what is going on? This is about the actions (and inactions) of CCP, and the lack of clarity in their new "if someone gets upset, stop whatever you are doing, but only sometimes" rule.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The statement in OP clearly states and reinforces, in specific wording, exactly what you claim it does not. If you are incapable of comprehending that, that is your problem. Claiming that it is not there, is false. How does it? All it states is that if someone has a sad, you should stop. It doesn't say how far outside of EVE the rules are applied, neither does it put in any understanding of at what point the person's sad must be taken into account. Going by their OP, if I gank someone and they start shrieking in local telling me how sad they are, I must leave their pod be and/or not gank them again later. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:10:00 -
[2683] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:A normal person would not have ended up in that position in the first place because of their level of decision making. A person that does end up in that situation would do so because of a lack of decision making ability. However the results of the situation will remedy that lack in decision making ability fairly quickly.
i.e. A child puts their hand on a hot stove. Their hand gets burnt.
Do you : A: Get rid of the stove because it burned your child's hand. B: Console your child and continue to live life unchanged. i.e. A woman is raped by a man. Do you: A: Outlaw raping because it caused harm to the woman. B: Console the woman and continue to live life unchanged. Your "normal person" clause is just juvenile. No such concept exists in law, nor is it relevant. This is the reason educations exist. In order to participate in an informed and rational fashion on complicated human matters such as law, you need to know what you are talking about, and from where the concepts stem from. Everyone can pull an "opinion" out of their behind, but it does not make it justified, informed or valid. Some people seem to have difficulty comprehending this. You can have an opinion on anything you want, we all do, but it does not automatically make your opinion justified, informed or valid. Opinions can be, and frequently are, wrong. That is the most ridiculous comparison I've seen yet. And a prime example of picking an extreme subject to garner support. I mean for starters, a **** victim is not given a choice, that's why it's ****. It would be a closer comparison to say that if a women chooses to sleep with a guy, thinking it's going to be amazing, but then it turns out to be not so amazing, is she allowed to then call it ****, because she didn't get what she expected to get out of it?
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1069
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:11:00 -
[2684] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Sure you did, and the government always agrees with each other, has sips of tea, says "righto" a lot, and when they disagree, one side always resigns his position. " If a member of the cabinet does not support a policy decision he is obliged to resign from his position in the cabinet." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_solidarity
Its not unusual for people to not know the constitutional vagaries of their own government. I don't blame you for it. Knowledge of these things is not automatic. It takes a great deal of study and thought to comprehend them.
Lucas Kell wrote:Answer me this, is there anything you won't argue, and that you don't supposedly know better than everyone else about? Yes, I will not argue on things I am not informed on or have no justification for arguing. In such cases, I defer to those who are more informed or justified than I am, such as in this case, the CSM who as a body have stated they are satisfied Erotica1 received due process and consideration, and whom also have written their support into the resulting CCP statement.
These guys know the specifics of this instance much better than I do, and are privy to information I do not have. Furthermore, as elected representatives of the player community, and whom have operated as a watchdog on CCPs conduct on this matter, if they are ok with it, then I defer to their assessment.
Lucas Kell wrote:I know you think you are a pretty smart guy, but you don't actually come off that way. Right back at you. I am confident in my own level of education, intelligence, integrity and capacity to communicate them.
Lucas Kell wrote:By the way, if you studied law, does that mean you are a lawyer and/or have a law degree like some people have claimed which you reckon you've never said?
That is none of your business. ------------ |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
724
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:13:00 -
[2685] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:[...]If someone is so pathetic and weak that they kill themselves over losing space pixels in a chat room they had full control of leaving, then the world is better of without them....
This is despicable and repulsive.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:26:00 -
[2686] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
i.e. A woman is raped by a man.
Do you: A: Outlaw raping because it caused harm to the woman. B: Console the woman and continue to live life unchanged.
Your "normal person" clause is just juvenile. No such concept exists in law, nor is it relevant.
This is the reason educations exist. In order to participate in an informed and rational fashion on complicated human matters such as law, you need to know what you are talking about, and from where the concepts stem from.
Everyone can pull an "opinion" out of their behind, but it does not make it justified, informed or valid. Some people seem to have difficulty comprehending this. You can have an opinion on anything you want, we all do, but it does not automatically make your opinion justified, informed or valid. Opinions can be, and frequently are, wrong.
Bonus room does not equal being raped. the victim was not forced to participate
The victim made bad decisions and got "burned". Therefore the analogy i gave about the child is relevant in this instance. Someone being raped is not analogous to the situation.
How about this question. If Erotica1 wasn't banned, on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely would it have been that you would have gotten "bonus roomed" in the future?
If Erotica1 had a way of taking someone's assets without the consent of the "victim" i would be totally against that. However there are rules that cover this already. The reason this is such a big debate is because it's not a totally black and white situation.
If you had studied Law for any duration, you should be able to understand the the concept of Consent. And the "normal person" ""clause"" as you put it, It is not relevant in law because it is the exception. That is the whole point! That's why we don't have laws against stupidity. If you want to you can refer to the "Normal person clause" as Darwinism. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:27:00 -
[2687] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Sure you did, and the government always agrees with each other, has sips of tea, says "righto" a lot, and when they disagree, one side always resigns his position. " If a member of the cabinet does not support a policy decision he is obliged to resign from his position in the cabinet." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_solidarityIts not unusual for people to not know the constitutional vagaries of their own government. I don't blame you for it. Confirming the entire government is made up of a single cabinet and there are no other politicians inside or outside of the elected party. Oh wait... And that for their official policy, not their personal opinion which has differed with no resignation in place. But then further to that, what is your point of this little sideline into UK politics? Regardless of whether they agree or disagree with each other, the fact remains that being in a position of power doesn't give them the right to abuse that position. Regardless of country, a politician taking a personal hate campaign against an individual would not be accepted as the right thing to do. I feel at this point you are trying to drag this as far off topic as you can get it.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Yes, I will not argue on things I am not informed on or have no justification for arguing. In such cases, I defer to those who are more informed or justified than I am, such as in this case, the CSM who as a body have stated they are satisfied Erotica1 received due process and consideration, and whom also have written their support into the resulting CCP statement.
These guys know the specifics of this instance much better than I do, and are privy to information I do not have. Furthermore, as elected representatives of the player community, and whom have operated as a watchdog on CCPs conduct on this matter, if they are ok with it, then I defer to their assessment. But you aren't arguing their decision. You're arguing about whether or not I'm allowed to want more clarity form CCP, which clearly I am. I don;t disagree that at least publicly the CSM and CCP have agreed over this, but that's not what is being argued. What is being argued is how it came to light, why action was not previously taken, and most importantly, in the future, if the CSM is going to determine what gets dealt with by pushing bad publicity.
By the way, on a little side note, would you consider it fair that Erotica 1 still has not received anything from CCP stating why he was banned? He didn't even get a mail to say "by the way, you're banned" he only sees that when he logs in. Also, is it fair that over half of the bonus room, as well as previous bonus rooms was actually other people running it, and none of them got banned.0
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:By the way, if you studied law, does that mean you are a lawyer and/or have a law degree like some people have claimed which you reckon you've never said? That is none of your business. lol, failed eh? Part time at Costco. That's a shame.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:32:00 -
[2688] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[...]If someone is so pathetic and weak that they kill themselves over losing space pixels in a chat room they had full control of leaving, then the world is better of without them.... This is despicable and repulsive. Yet this is the natural order. Natural Selection. Though i guess only if it's prior to procreation.
Regardless of the morality of that specific instance, a person with that level of instability should not be playing EVE. |
Salvos Rhoska
1075
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:32:00 -
[2689] - Quote
CSM have stated they are satisfied Erotica1 received due process and consideration. CSM support the CCP Statement. The Statement reinforces pre-existing sections of the EULA and TOS. It does not change them. Ripard was completely within his rights to blog whatever he wants, barring NDA breach. It is irrelevant that CCP did not act earlier. What is relevant, is that they have acted now.
You have no case, and no grounds on which to base one. ------------ |
Salvos Rhoska
1075
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:34:00 -
[2690] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[...]If someone is so pathetic and weak that they kill themselves over losing space pixels in a chat room they had full control of leaving, then the world is better of without them.... This is despicable and repulsive. Yet this is the natural order. Natural Selection. Though i guess only if it's prior to procreation. Regardless of the morality of that specific instance, a person with that level of instability should not be playing EVE.
By that logic, I submit that you should never have been born, and should not be playing EVE. But as can be shown, neither is a reality. Therefore it can also be shown that both of your premises are false.
You can't make broad ridiculous statements like the above, and then exclude yourself from them. They cut both ways, and ultimately and invariably end up destroying themselves as an argument, with no external effort required. ------------ |
|
Tesco Ergo Sum
84
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:35:00 -
[2691] - Quote
ISD please close this thread. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:36:00 -
[2692] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[...]If someone is so pathetic and weak that they kill themselves over losing space pixels in a chat room they had full control of leaving, then the world is better of without them.... This is despicable and repulsive. Please see my care face. It's a game buddy, it's entrainment. Why should the rules be built to cater for people that are unable to deal with in-game losses? People get unreasonable upset about a lot of things. It's very possible that you will shoot one of the FW farmers you like to kill, and they will get upset and go an hang themselves. Does that make you culpable?
I have absolutely no time for people that are unable to rationally separate games from reality. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:38:00 -
[2693] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[...]If someone is so pathetic and weak that they kill themselves over losing space pixels in a chat room they had full control of leaving, then the world is better of without them.... This is despicable and repulsive. Yet this is the natural order. Natural Selection. Though i guess only if it's prior to procreation. Regardless of the morality of that specific instance, a person with that level of instability should not be playing EVE. By that logic, I submit that you should never have been born, and should not be playing EVE. How can you possibly get to that from what he said? Are you suggesting he's unstable because he disagree with you? Bear in mind that you troll, throw out personal attacks, and usually result in the thread getting cleaned of half of your responses. So who's the unstable one there? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1075
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:39:00 -
[2694] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I have absolutely no time for people that are unable to rationally separate games from reality.
Then you should have no problem comprehending the CCP Statement in OP.
Careful what you say now. ------------ |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:42:00 -
[2695] - Quote
I thought these things were just agreements between the party members themselves, not an actual physical code that has consequences. If it is a code, then what is the point of even having a Cabinet when everyone will just have the same vote and public opinion?
Quote: Yes, I will not argue on things I am not informed on or have no justification for arguing.
These guys know the specifics of this instance much better than I do, and are privy to information I do not have. Furthermore, as elected representatives of the player community, and whom have operated as a watchdog on CCPs conduct on this matter, if they are ok with it, then I defer to their assessment.
What justification do you need for arguing? And the state of being informed is very subjective. As you say in your next paragraph you assume you're not privy to all of the information. Which on this issue is absolutely false. But even with that assumption you do seem to take a very strong stance in the matter. You can read the interviews and listen to the recording if you desired. Even the victim in this case is of the opinion that Erotica1 shouldn't have been banned and that he could have stopped at any time. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:44:00 -
[2696] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:CSM have stated they are satisfied Erotica1 received due process and consideration. CSM support the CCP Statement. The Statement reinforces pre-existing sections of the EULA and TOS. It does not change them. Ripard was completely within his rights to blog whatever he wants, barring NDA breach. It is irrelevant that CCP did not act earlier. What is relevant, is that they have acted now.
You have no case, and no grounds on which to base one. Confirming, CSM and CCP would never state false information to control or mislead the public. oh wait...
And yes, it's relevant. It's a change in their response to the situation based off of Ripard's hate campaign, and the setting of a new precedent, that CSM members can force CCP to act in their favour. It doesn't even matter if behind the scenes the situation is quite different, because what matters is how it looks, which is pretty bad.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:46:00 -
[2697] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: By that logic, I submit that you should never have been born, and should not be playing EVE. But as can be shown, neither is a reality. Therefore it can also be shown that both of your premises are false.
You can't make broad ridiculous statements like the above, and then exclude yourself from them. They cut both ways, and ultimately and invariably end up destroying themselves as an argument, with no external effort required.
This actually makes no sense. Please explain how you go to this idea.
Please also explain how you can analogize someone being raped with the bonus room. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:46:00 -
[2698] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I have absolutely no time for people that are unable to rationally separate games from reality. Then you should have no problem comprehending the CCP Statement in OP. Careful what you say now. Non sequitur. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1075
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:50:00 -
[2699] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:I thought these things were just agreements between the party members themselves, not an actual physical code that has consequences. If it is a code, then what is the point of even having a Cabinet when everyone will just have the same vote and public opinion?
You thought wrong. And yes, the "point" of it, is a bit questionable, depending on how you perceive it. It is largely an informal convention, but so is most of UK Constitutional Law. It is however reinforced, in part, by the Ministerial Code, as a rare example of these conventions actually being put down on paper. However this document also, is not strictly speaking, constitutional: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerial_Code_%28United_Kingdom%29
Erutpar Ambient wrote: the state of being informed is very subjective.
False. Information is an objective quantity and quality. You either have it, or you don't.
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Even the victim in this case is of the opinion that Erotica1 shouldn't have been banned and that he could have stopped at any time. It doesn't matter. The victim does not get to decide what is against the rules, nor what punitive measures an authority takes against someone who breaks its rules.
This is super-elementary stuff. I can't begin to tell you how disappointing it is to be reminded of the fact that some people lack even this absolutely basic and fundamental understanding of how these things work, and why. ------------ |
Salvos Rhoska
1075
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:53:00 -
[2700] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I have absolutely no time for people that are unable to rationally separate games from reality. Then you should have no problem comprehending the CCP Statement in OP. Careful what you say now. Non sequitur.
That's not what "non-sequitur" means.
Are you, Lucas Kell, able to rationally separate games from reality? ------------ |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:58:00 -
[2701] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:I thought these things were just agreements between the party members themselves, not an actual physical code that has consequences. If it is a code, then what is the point of even having a Cabinet when everyone will just have the same vote and public opinion? You have to remember that it's only the public side of the cabinet that has that, and it's just so there is a single unified policy. Behind the scenes they will and do disagree, which is how their policy changes. Salvos makes it sound like the moment you aren't thinking in unison like some kind of borg collective you get ejected, but it's not the case. Further to that the cabinet is only part of the government, and the decisions they choose to make can be swayed by non-cabinet members. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 09:59:00 -
[2702] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote: the state of being informed is very subjective. False. Information is an objective quantity and quality. You either have it, or you don't. I didn't say Information is subjective. I said the state of being informed is. Just because you have information doesn't mean it is of great, much less complete, quantity or quality.
Quote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:Even the victim in this case is of the opinion that Erotica1 shouldn't have been banned and that he could have stopped at any time. It doesn't matter. The victim does not get to decide what is against the rules, nor what punitive measures an authority takes against someone who breaks its rules. This is super-elementary stuff. I can't begin to tell you how disappointing it is to be reminded of the fact that some people lack even this absolutely basic and fundamental understanding of how these things work, and why. But there again, there was no precedent in this case much less a clearly defined infraction. That is why the opinion of the alleged victim as to whether or not he was victimized is relevant.
There are also a lot of other questions you seem to keep skirting by.
I'm still curious to know how you get to the conclusion that i should have not been born or should not be playing eve. And i still want to know how you can justify the bonus room being analogous to someone being raped.
Please explain your reasoning. |
Salvos Rhoska
1075
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:03:00 -
[2703] - Quote
This is like arguing with children. Incredible that adults can be so ignorant, and speaks volumes to the importance of education.
And whats really funny, is that nothing you do, will change CCPs Statement. Deal with it. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:06:00 -
[2704] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I have absolutely no time for people that are unable to rationally separate games from reality. Then you should have no problem comprehending the CCP Statement in OP. Careful what you say now. Non sequitur. That's not what "non-sequitur" means. Are you, Lucas Kell, able to rationally separate games from reality? Sigh... I am aware of what it means, and yes, I am able to. You are quite literally attacking everything at this point no matter how ridiculous, and not making any sense. But go ahead, tell me how me not having time for people who can;t separate games from reality automatically means I should understand CCPs incredibly vague rules made at the whim of A CSM member.
Second thought, don;t bother. Since the first time I saw you post, I don't think I've seen a single thing you've posted which has been even remotely on topic and well thought out. You just argue everything with utter nonsense regardless of what is said. No wonder you don't want to talk about it when quizzed about your law degree (or lack thereof). The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:09:00 -
[2705] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:Answer: Variant 1 - CCP considers that Ripard Teg view on the event is correct and they also find the said event reprehensible. Variant 2 - CCP doesn't consider that Teg is right but they acknowledge that the majority of its costumers/potential costumers supports Tegs views and they were forced into action by economics and marketing reasons. Variant 3 - CCP had previously decided the situation was fine but due to bad publicity brought on by the Vice Chair of the CSM making absurd statements, decided to take action against a single player to stem the wound. (note, majority of it's consumers has yet be de demonstrated, it's a couple of hundred at most).
That's 2 with other words. To state that CCP will bow to absurd claims alone with out any other reasons is not valid. CCP previously denied other players sits in CSM, if I'm not mistaken. You didn't quote the addendum, wonder way?
Lucas Kell wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote: Questions: - Should CCP have the right to deny service to any individual that they consider a threat to their business model? - Should costumers that don't approve CCP policies deny CCP their particular business?
Should CCP operate under fair rules and provided oversight on what those views entail to allow all players to make educated decisions in game rather than guessing and hoping (you know, like they do for all the other rules, and did up until now on their third party comms rules)? Answer:Yes
What is fair or not is a matter of opinion. CCP doesn't have to abide to your understanding of fair. You have your right to ***** and moan about it, even on the CCP forums if CCP allows you too .
P.S. Do you enjoy trying to spin everything about? Is this your choice of meta-gaming? Well, it looks that you are losing . |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:11:00 -
[2706] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:This is like arguing with children. Incredible that adults can be so ignorant, and speaks volumes to the importance of education.
And whats really funny, is that nothing you do, will change CCPs Statement. Deal with it. LOL Because YOU are so grown up right? How many of your posts have had to be removed because you rage post personal attacks? How many times have you dragged a thread off course by avoiding the subject matter an attacking the people making the statements? Then when you still don't get your own way you stamp your feet and do the "I'm leaving!" thing and keep coming back.
And sure, it's unlikely to change their statement, but that doesn't mean that the opinions shouldn't be stated. People should stand up for what they feel is important. Now I get the impression that you don't think it's important, yet for some reason you do find it important that people don't get to have their say without you attacking them. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1075
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:12:00 -
[2707] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I have absolutely no time for people that are unable to rationally separate games from reality. Then you should have no problem comprehending the CCP Statement in OP. Careful what you say now. Non sequitur. That's not what "non-sequitur" means. Are you, Lucas Kell, able to rationally separate games from reality? I am aware of what it means, and yes, I am able to
Then why are you unable to distinguish between the game and reality, as outlined by CCP in the Statement? ------------ |
Salvos Rhoska
1075
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:14:00 -
[2708] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Please explain your reasoning.
I have already done so in text.
If you require further elaboration, I am available to elaborate in voice comms. Just state the time and place. ------------ |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:14:00 -
[2709] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:This is like arguing with children. Incredible that adults can be so ignorant, and speaks volumes to the importance of education.
So i take it that you've reached the end of your ability to justify your previous statements. That's what usually happened when someone resorts to personal attacks. I can justify everything i've said. I'm still waiting for the justification on how you came to the conclusion that I should not have been born and should not be playing eve. And how you can justify your analogizing the bonus room to someone being raped.
Why do you keep avoiding these questions?
Quote:And whats really funny, is that nothing you do, will change CCPs Statement. Deal with it. I guess if nothing will change CCP's position then there's no reason for you to be arguing that stance either. I guess since we'll probably never change anyone's mind ever we shouldn't have discussions like this. That seems to be your reasoning behind that statement. |
Salvos Rhoska
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:17:00 -
[2710] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:That's what usually happened when someone resorts to personal attacks. I can justify everything i've said.
No, its what happens when the other person in a discussion is incapable or unwilling, for one reason or another, to reciprocate in discussion.
You are dishonest in your argumentation. If you wish to continue, we can do so in voice, where you will be forced to unilaterally reciprocate in a live situation, which you are currently avoiding in a text based one.
I have already explained and justified everything I have said. If you require elaboration, we can do so in a direct live situation. Just state the time and place. ------------ |
|
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:19:00 -
[2711] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:Please explain your reasoning. I have already done so in text. You made the statements. You did not explain your reasoning in any way. Making a statement does not equate to explaining your reasoning to make that statement.
Quote: If you require further elaboration, we can take this outside
LOL fixed that for you |
Salvos Rhoska
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:20:00 -
[2712] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:You made the statements. You did not explain your reasoning in any way. Making a statement does not equate to explaining your reasoning to make that statement.
False.
I have explained all my reasoning.
It is what I have been taught to do. State your argument, then explain it and furthermore, if possible, add evidence to support it. I have done so on every point I have made. Is this an unfamiliar format for you? Its generally a REQUIRED format for passing any kind of intellectual hurdle, from exams, to essays, to informed and structured discussion.
Do you refuse a live voice discussion? What is your explanation and reasoning for that? ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:23:00 -
[2713] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Loko Crackhead wrote:Answer: Variant 1 - CCP considers that Ripard Teg view on the event is correct and they also find the said event reprehensible. Variant 2 - CCP doesn't consider that Teg is right but they acknowledge that the majority of its costumers/potential costumers supports Tegs views and they were forced into action by economics and marketing reasons. Variant 3 - CCP had previously decided the situation was fine but due to bad publicity brought on by the Vice Chair of the CSM making absurd statements, decided to take action against a single player to stem the wound. (note, majority of it's consumers has yet be de demonstrated, it's a couple of hundred at most). That's 2 with other words. To state that CCP will bow to absurd claims alone with out any other reasons is not valid. CCP previously denied other players sits in CSM, if I'm not mistaken. You didn't quote the addendum, wonder way? No, that's not 2 with other words, because your 2 states "the majority of its costumers/potential costumers", which is false. It's a vocal minority that are in support. Unless you can evidence at least 25000 different people being in support. And I didn;t feel the addendum was relevant to my quote.
Loko Crackhead wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Should CCP operate under fair rules and provided oversight on what those views entail to allow all players to make educated decisions in game rather than guessing and hoping (you know, like they do for all the other rules, and did up until now on their third party comms rules)?
Answer:Yes What is fair or not is a matter of opinion. CCP doesn't have to abide to your understanding of fair. You have your right to ***** and moan about it, even on the CCP forums if CCP allows you too . P.S. Do you enjoy trying to spin everything about? Is this your choice of meta-gaming? Well, it looks that you are losing . How is there spin? You've stated it right there, I have the right to ***** and moan, and I do and will. I feel that the rules they make paying consumers abide by should be fair and transparent.
And what is all this bullshit about losing? You can't "lose" at having an opinion. If CCP chooses not to change a thing, they have every right to do so, but that won't change my opinion about the situation. People on this forum are so eager to be able to go "look at me, look how right I am, look how wrong the other guy is MUA HA HA HA HA", grow the **** up. It's not about being right or wrong, it's all subjective. Some people support this change, others don't. CCP need to weigh up whether the decisions they make will cause too much outcry. People being free and able to voice their opinions on the matter allow them to make those decisions in an informed manner. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:25:00 -
[2714] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Thats all I wanna know so I know who to report.
Griefing/griefer Here you go. Now, take note that each game developer has his own policy about this and in my opinion CCP has the most relaxed policy about it by comparison with all the important developers that have a MMORPG on the market. |
Salvos Rhoska
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:28:00 -
[2715] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:CCP need to weigh up whether the decisions they make will cause too much outcry.
Yes, I agree.
And the lack of "too much outcry" as a result of their decisions, shows they have taken the right course. The CSM support it. The community at large supports it (as evidenced by lack of outcry). I support it.
I alone am sufficient to mitigate your "outcry". You have somekind of problem with the Statement that is known ambiguously only to you (and nobody else cares about). Fine. I, however, counter your vote of dissent, with my own vote of approval.
So your "outcry" has been negated.
I'm sorry, but your tiny minority of whiners has no traction. You can argue with me all you want, but that does not change CCP policy, or the status quo, one bit. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:30:00 -
[2716] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Then why are you unable to distinguish between the game and reality, as outlined by CCP in the Statement? I'm not sure if you understand the words you are stating at this point. I assume what you are trying to say is that when we are on comms, twitter, etc, we are not in game, thus should not be mean, end of story. But that leaves situations where you can't negatively comment on a blog, or a forum, and it certainly makes it impossible for people like eve-radio to run quizzes on air involving singing or other tasks. It would also mean that in game harassment is in game, and nothing more thus everything is allowed, which clearly isn't and never will be the case. I think you've gone off on a bit of a wrong turn with this one mate. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:31:00 -
[2717] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:That's what usually happened when someone resorts to personal attacks. I can justify everything i've said. No, its what happens when the other person in a discussion is incapable or unwilling, for one reason or another, to reciprocate in discussion. You are dishonest in your argumentation. If you wish to continue, we can do so in voice, where you will be forced to unilaterally reciprocate in a live situation, which you are currently avoiding in a text based one. I have already explained and justified everything I have said. If you require elaboration, we can do so in a direct live situation. Just state the time and place. You have not justified the things i have been asking you about. If you are so capable of doing so then you should be so capable of doing so again in many less words than you have used to explain that you have already done so.
To say someone is dishonest in an argumentation is to say they're misleading. But it is really you and your analogy to The bonus room and someone being raped that is a Dishonest Argumentation. That comparison is very much incorrect because of the distinction of consent in the different scenarios, which i've pointed out multiple times yet you have not been able to defend this statement.
Just because you make a statement, such as someone should not have been born or someone is dishonest in their argumentation or make an analogy doesn't mean you are right by default. You have to make your case by using logic and reasoning which you have time and time again failed to do with the exception of the UK parliamentary structure.
Talking to you live gives neither me nor my argument any any additional credibility. All the credibility i need is in my reasoning for the statements I've made. I am still waiting for you to reciprocate in this discussion. |
Salvos Rhoska
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:32:00 -
[2718] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Then why are you unable to distinguish between the game and reality, as outlined by CCP in the Statement? I'm not sure if you understand the words you are stating at this point.
I asked you if you can distinguish between the game and reality. You answered that you can.
I therefore ask you, again: Then why are you unable to distinguish between the game and reality, as outlined by CCP in the Statement?
Erutpar Ambient wrote:You have not justified the things i have been asking you about. Yes, I have. Deal with it. If you require further elaboration, I am available for a real-time dialogue on voice where you can ask what you failed to understand in my explanations/justifications/evidence, and I will answer you directly on those. Otherwise, my explanations/justifications/evidence are already submitted in this thread under the points I have made that they pertain to.
Voice for elaborations upon, or go back and re-read my justifications. Your choice. ------------ |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
115
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:37:00 -
[2719] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:This is like arguing with children. Incredible that adults can be so ignorant, and speaks volumes to the importance of education.
And whats really funny, is that nothing you do, will change CCPs Statement. Deal with it.
Yeah okay then please explain why sokar was never punished for what he said on the tape? Well? He broke the rules didn't he? While your at it explain to me why the escrow agents involved in this bonus round punished either? Well? They broke the rules too? Right?
In fact if I recall it was an escrow agent that made sokar read definition of words he missed after sokar reviled he had a speech issue. Was he punished too?
By the way IB4 you say sokar was bought to saying what he did due to great distress - Guess what, take that road and we should clear every single person convicted of terrorist threats and criminal harassment based on threats of violence, because we all know they said it because they were under great duress? Amirite? See you trolls are so predictable Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:38:00 -
[2720] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:CCP need to weigh up whether the decisions they make will cause too much outcry. Yes, I agree. And the lack of "too much outcry" as a result of their decisions, shows they have taken the right course. The CSM support it. The community at large supports it (as evidenced by lack of outcry). I support it. I alone am sufficient to mitigate your "outcry". You have somekind of problem with the Statement that is known ambiguously only to you (and nobody else cares about). Fine. I, however, counter your vote of dissent, with my own vote of approval. So your "outcry" has been negated. Yes, from that point of view, the decision they've made to ban Erotica 1 is the right one, but what about future decisions? What about next time a CSM takes it upon themselves to force policy changes? And to what extent has the policy changed? I get it, you keep telling us, you don't care. So why are you posting? Why if you don't care, are you continuously attacking people? It seems to me that you do care, and that you want the rules to be as vague as possible. Otherwise, why would it matter? Why does it matter so much if some people want clarity from the rules?
Reality is that you just argue for the sake of arguing. Whatever stance people had in this thread you'd argue against it. Just like in the reprocessing changes thread where you constantly attacked people yet claimed to have absolutely no involvement in the reprocessing process and claimed to be completely unaffected. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:39:00 -
[2721] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Yeah okay then please explain
Ask CCP.
I am not in a position to answer questions that only CCP can. ------------ |
Salvos Rhoska
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:42:00 -
[2722] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Reality is that you just argue for the sake of arguing. Whatever stance people had in this thread you'd argue against it.
That is perfectly descriptive and accurate of YOU.
CSM have already stated as a body that they are satisfied Erotica1 was treated fairly. CSM have their support of CCPs Statement written into it.
You are the one arguing for the sake of arguing, on matters that have already been decided to have been handled properly.
You argue with anyone in this thread who points that out to you, in a stubborn refusal to accept that simple and objective fact.
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Please explain your reasoning.
I have already done so in text.
If you require further elaboration, I am available to elaborate in voice comms. Just state the time and place. ------------ |
Loko Crackhead
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:43:00 -
[2723] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No, that's not 2 with other words, because your 2 states "the majority of its costumers/potential costumers", which is false. It's a vocal minority that are in support. Unless you can evidence at least 25000 different people being in support. And I didn;t feel the addendum was relevant to my quote.
So you claim CCP are stupid people that will take a controversial game action with out proper research. OK, it is your opinion. I've taken it is as the non-sense I believe it is but did take it in.
Lucas Kell wrote:
And what is all this bullshit about losing? You can't "lose" at having an opinion. If CCP chooses not to change a thing, they have every right to do so, but that won't change my opinion about the situation. People on this forum are so eager to be able to go "look at me, look how right I am, look how wrong the other guy is MUA HA HA HA HA", grow the **** up. It's not about being right or wrong, it's all subjective. Some people support this change, others don't. CCP need to weigh up whether the decisions they make will cause too much outcry. People being free and able to voice their opinions on the matter allow them to make those decisions in an informed manner.
Already stated you have the right to an opinion. CCP already weighted the situation and the thing is in the bag. You are asking what you are losing? Time, my friend, and credibility. And don't get fired up because we think you are wrong (subjective or not) it happens to the best of us at some point.
One last thing, there is no change what so ever. One douche got slapped, end of story. Upon one thing I agree with you "If peeing against the wind make sure you don't wear your pants and shoes". CHILAX and go play the game. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
130
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:44:00 -
[2724] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
False.
I have explained all my reasoning.
It is what I have been taught to do. State your argument, then explain it and furthermore, if possible, add evidence to support it. I have done so on every point I have made. Is this an unfamiliar format for you? Its generally a REQUIRED format for passing any kind of intellectual hurdle, from exams, to essays, to informed and structured discussion.
Ah i understand now, when i'm asking you to explain your reasoning, i'm asking about very specific statements.
What you seem to be talking about when you said you have explained all of your reasoning is that you made the statements you wanted to make in regards to the issue the statements are about.
I'm not asking you to make more statements on why you think the stance CCP took is correct in your opinion. I'm asking you to to explain the reasoning you used to make the statements.
If you have explained all your reasoning already, then it shouldn't be too hard for you to explain your reasoning again right? Please explain how you came to the conclusion that the Analogy of someone being raped and the bonus room is a sound comparasion even though the main qualifying issue with both is the difference in consent.
I'd also like you to explain how you go to this conclusion.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[...]If someone is so pathetic and weak that they kill themselves over losing space pixels in a chat room they had full control of leaving, then the world is better of without them.... This is despicable and repulsive. Yet this is the natural order. Natural Selection. Though i guess only if it's prior to procreation. Regardless of the morality of that specific instance, a person with that level of instability should not be playing EVE. By that logic, I submit that you should never have been born, and should not be playing EVE. Going on comms does nothing to validate anyone's point. I'm looking for the answer here infront of anyone who reads this. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:47:00 -
[2725] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:..... Not on topic
Please don't hijack other posts just because your's got locked. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
115
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:47:00 -
[2726] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Yeah okay then please explain Ask CCP. I am not in a position to answer questions that only CCP can.
Okay lets try it this way, do you think ero was the only one that should have been punished, or do you believe everyone involved should have been punished too?
Personally I believe no one at all would have even cared if CCP's ruling would have been fair across the board, but given the current circumstance and the fact no one else's account was actioned you do have to stop and think that maybe there is more to this story than we are being led to believe.
I mean if you look at it in an objective manner it does at the very least look troubling. Doesn't it. Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:48:00 -
[2727] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:If you have explained all your reasoning already, then it shouldn't be too hard for you to explain your reasoning again right?
It would not be hard, but it should not be necessary.
Re-state your questions here, now, in a concise numbered list, and I will answer them as long as they pertain to me.
In reciprocation, I expect you to subsequently answer a similar list if I submit one to you thereafter.
Lucas Kell wrote:Ahhh, the "I know you are so what am I?" defence.
No, just demonstration of projection, and an alarming lack of introversion on your part. Your description of me is more accurate of yourself, than it is of me.
And you still did not answer the question:
Why are you unable to distinguish between the game and reality, as outlined by CCP in the Statement?
Asia Leigh wrote:Okay lets try it this way, do you think ero was the only one that should have been punished, or do you believe everyone involved should have been punished too?
I think CCP handled the matter well, and I support it.
That the CSM have stated they are satisfied Erotica1 was handled fairly, and that they support the Statement, reinforces my confidence in CCPs handling of the matter. ------------ |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
115
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:50:00 -
[2728] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Snip
Block function is there for a reason, Just saying
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:51:00 -
[2729] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Reality is that you just argue for the sake of arguing. Whatever stance people had in this thread you'd argue against it. That is perfectly descriptive and accurate of YOU. Ahhh, the "I know you are so what am I?" defence. LOL
He's turning our debate into a preschool ***** slinging contest.
It's pretty obvious he has no idea what he's doing. Maybe he's a youngster aspiring to one day be a lawyer. But for now he really needs to work on qualifying his statements. He either doesn't understand how to or what it even means. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
115
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:54:00 -
[2730] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Reality is that you just argue for the sake of arguing. Whatever stance people had in this thread you'd argue against it. That is perfectly descriptive and accurate of YOU. Ahhh, the "I know you are so what am I?" defence. LOL He's turning our debate into a preschool ***** slinging contest. It's pretty obvious he has no idea what he's doing. Maybe he's a youngster aspiring to one day be a lawyer. But for now he really needs to work on qualifying his statements. He either doesn't understand how to or what it even means.
Nah... This is the guy who actually claimed to be a lawyer in the threadnaught and when he got called out on it he edited out all his posts :P Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
|
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1157
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:56:00 -
[2731] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:58:00 -
[2732] - Quote
Loko Crackhead wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:No, that's not 2 with other words, because your 2 states "the majority of its costumers/potential costumers", which is false. It's a vocal minority that are in support. Unless you can evidence at least 25000 different people being in support. And I didn;t feel the addendum was relevant to my quote. So you claim CCP are stupid people that will take a controversial game action with out proper research. OK, it is your opinion. I've taken it is as the non-sense I believe it is but did take it in. Where did I even remotely claim that? I've claimed that there aren't 25000 people complaining about Erotica 1, which I think it's plain to see there isn't. Whatever else you derived from that has been made up in your head.
Loko Crackhead wrote:Already stated you have the right to an opinion. CCP already weighted the situation and the thing is in the bag. You are asking what you are losing? Time, my friend, and credibility. And don't get fired up because we think you are wrong (subjective or not) it happens to the best of us at some point. I don;t consider this time consuming and I'm not worried about credibility. It's important to stand by what you believe in, and if you back down because random people jump into the thread and throw personal attacks at you until the ISD cleans it up, then you lack conviction. Aside from that, I'm in the CFC. Do you really think I'm worried about what other people think of me?
Loko Crackhead wrote:One last thing, there is no change what so ever. One douche got slapped, end of story. Upon one thing I agree with you "If peeing against the wind make sure you don't wear your pants and shoes". CHILAX and go play the game. I'm relaxed, and I'm sorta playing the game while I code. Believe it or not, I don't get worked up about games and forums, and definitely not when a forum alt is talking at me, even if I do use the occasional profanity (I'm British, they just mix in with your regular speech).
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 10:59:00 -
[2733] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Nah... This is the guy who actually claimed to be a lawyer in the threadnaught and when he got called out on it he edited out all his posts :P
False. I have nowhere on these boards claimed to be a lawyer, nor edited any post to that effect. ------------ |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
118
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:02:00 -
[2734] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Okay lets try it this way, do you think ero was the only one that should have been punished, or do you believe everyone involved should have been punished too? I think CCP handled the matter well, and I support it. That the CSM have stated they are satisfied Erotica1 was handled fairly, and that they support the Statement, reinforces my confidence in CCPs handling of the matter.
You sound like a screeching broken record. You totally missed the point of my question by a mile. I think everyone in their right mind supports the OP, thats not the question though... The question is based on the OP, Do YOU think that at the very least the other escrow agents involved should be punished under the same guidelines as Ero was. Do YOU think there is anything wrong with the rules not being applied equally in this case, and why?
Questions you have been asked this whole thread and you always skate around them. Stop playing that lawyer BS, man up, and answer the question....
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:03:00 -
[2735] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Ahhh, the "I know you are so what am I?" defence. No, just demonstration of projection, and an alarming lack of introversion on your part. Your description of me is more accurate of yourself, than it is of me. lol. Repeating it won't make it true buddy.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:And you still did not answer the question:
Why are you unable to distinguish between the game and reality, as outlined by CCP in the Statement? I did answer that incredibly vague and nonsensical question, with the answer being that it's absolute nonsense and the two aren't comparable. Like in other threads you just say something that makes no sense and is in now way related, the you repeatedly copy paste your same question acting like you'e somehow said something profound. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
118
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:04:00 -
[2736] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Nah... This is the guy who actually claimed to be a lawyer in the threadnaught and when he got called out on it he edited out all his posts :P False. I have nowhere on these boards claimed to be a lawyer, nor edited any post to that effect.
Are you really going to deny it now? Okay, whatever...
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:07:00 -
[2737] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Nah... This is the guy who actually claimed to be a lawyer in the threadnaught and when he got called out on it he edited out all his posts :P False. I have nowhere on these boards claimed to be a lawyer, nor edited any post to that effect. Are you really going to deny it now? Okay, whatever... It's clearly a touchy subject for him. He's stated he went to law school, and refuses to comment beyond that. Take a look at the way he argues and how swiftly he leaps to personal attacks and loses his temper, and it's pretty obvious he's no lawyer. That said, I am pretty sure I saw him claim either that he was a lawyer or had a law degree in one of these threads.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:08:00 -
[2738] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:The question is based on the OP, Do YOU think that at the very least the other escrow agents involved should be punished under the same guidelines as Ero was. Do YOU think there is anything wrong with the rules not being applied equally in this case, and why?
I will answer your two questions above, if you agree to answer two of my own questions to you thereafter.
Do we have an agreement?
Asia Leigh wrote:Are you really going to deny it now? Okay, whatever... Nowhere here on these boards, or in voice comms for that matter, have I claimed to be a lawyer, nor edited any post to that effect.
That's just how it is. ------------ |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2207
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:09:00 -
[2739] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:..... Not on topic Please don't hijack other posts just because your's got locked. Read the locked topic, ISD referred me to this thread with my issue. Take it up with him.
I have unsubbed all 8 accounts, now that I have stopped plexing I usually spend 200 per month on plex, that's around 4000 dollars per year I won't be paying CCP. Which in restrospect is a pretty absurd amount of money anyway. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Salvos Rhoska
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:10:00 -
[2740] - Quote
Are are you unable to distinguish between the game and reality, as outlined by CCP in the Statement? ------------ |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:29:00 -
[2741] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Are are you unable to distinguish between the game and reality, as outlined by CCP in the Statement? Against, repeating the question will not stop it being nonsense. You are combining 2 completely separate statements into a single one trying to force me to answer you flawed, combined statement so you can say that one contradicts the other. Is that really the best you can come up with?
And regardless, I've already answered this, while I'll reiterate here: Yes, I can differentiate between the game and reality, but no, that doesn't suddenly mean that I know what CCPs arbitrary definition of "too far" is (which appears to be a subjective line drawn entirely by the victim or a CSM member if the victim feels no line was crossed), neither does that explain to me how far outside of EVE the EULA will be enforced. But let me guess, you're now at the stage of "repeatedly copy paste the same question in bold over and over". That means your resorting to personal attacks then a ragequit is due soon, followed by the ISD cleaning up your posts... as usual. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1082
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:31:00 -
[2742] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Are are you unable to distinguish between the game and reality, as outlined by CCP in the Statement? Yes, I can differentiate between the game and reality
Ok.
So what are your specific questions regarding the Statement?
List them in a concise and numbered fashion and I will do my best to answer them. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:42:00 -
[2743] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Are are you unable to distinguish between the game and reality, as outlined by CCP in the Statement? Yes, I can differentiate between the game and reality Ok. So what are your specific questions regarding the Statement? List them in a concise and numbered fashion and I will do my best to answer them. I already have, several times, and I'm not going down this step by step approach to explaining myself to a random of the forum. I'm willing to spend a little time back and forthing with people on here, but I'm not going to sit here writing out itemised documentation to save you having to bother reading the thread you are responding to. Especially since no matter what you say in response to in, either for or against it, your opinion on the matter will still means precisely zero to me, since you've already made it clear that you are just a forum troll. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1086
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:47:00 -
[2744] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Categorically refuses to submit a list of questions of what he does not understand so as to be able to understand it, but continues to claim he does not understand it
Well, that's that then.
You don't even want answers.
Case closed.
So basically your only reason here is to antagonise other posters? If you don't want answers, what the hell do you want? ------------ |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Disband.
1124
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:03:00 -
[2745] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I have unsubbed all 8 accounts
Can I have your stuff? No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:14:00 -
[2746] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Categorically refuses to submit a list of questions of what he does not understand so as to be able to understand it, but continues to claim he does not understand it Well, that's that then. You don't even want answers. Case closed. So basically your only reason here is to antagonise other posters? If you don't want answers, what the hell do you want? I don't want your answers. There's a difference. You are a troll, and you can't even be bothered to read the thread. Periodically you appear, shout a bunch of nonsense, attack a bunch of people, get moderated out then go silent again. There's absolutely nothing to gain by addressing you directly, since you are only looking to troll. I've addressed my questions to CCP, and I've addressed them to regular members of the community, I'm even fully willing to discuss them with other members of the community, but I'm not willing to go in to great lengths to discuss them with you.
Now you can parade around stating that it's a failing on my part all you want, I really don't care, but the truth of the matter is that you are the issue here. Every thread you are involved in, you troll and you attack and you drag it off topic, then you start demanding people to go on comms, and sending them mail and the like, acting like if they don't conform to what you want and do thing your way, they lose by default. You need to grow up my friend.
By the way, re the lawyer stuff, if you didn't edit out your responses (which I'm not convinced) things like this don't help your case. Several times in that thread you implied a legal qualification, then when specifically referred to as a lawyer on several occasions, you responded as if that were accurate. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:17:00 -
[2747] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:I have unsubbed all 8 accounts Can I have your stuff? How did we all miss that one leaving you to swoop in?
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1086
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:31:00 -
[2748] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I don't want your answers.
So you don't want my answers, and earlier you have already stated you don't want CCP's answers either. The rest of your post is ad hominem and insults.
You refuse to submit a list of questions for either me, or CCP to answer. Instead you are spamming nonsense questions at random posters, and then ATTACKING them when they answer them.
This thread is about the Statement in the OP. If you can't keep your posts relevant to that, they have no business in this thread.
I offered to answer your questions to be best of my abiilty, but you refused.
Basically all that is left, is you antagonising other posters here, and making false allegations and accusations. ------------ |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5003
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:38:00 -
[2749] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I have unsubbed all 8 accounts
A cyber-bully leaves EVE of his own free will when CCP refuses to pander to his disgusting state of mind. Good. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 12:59:00 -
[2750] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:I don't want your answers. So you don't want my answers, and earlier you have already stated you don't want CCP's answers either. The rest of your post is ad hominem and insults. You refuse to submit a list of questions for either me, or CCP to answer. Instead you are spamming nonsense questions at random posters, and then ATTACKING them when they answer them. This thread is about the Statement in the OP. If you can't keep your posts relevant to that, they have no business in this thread. I offered to answer your questions to be best of my abiilty, but you refused. Basically all that is left, is you antagonising other posters here, and making false allegations and accusations. lol, what? Have you even read the thread? I've stated my questions at CCP and to the public in general. I've even had several good discussions with other people about it. It's you I don't want to discuss anything with, since you immediately fly off topic and start insulting people. It's not "other posters", it's just you. I do not want to discuss this topic with you. Do you understand? Is that clear enough for you? I don't want to discuss a topic with a known troll. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
1087
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:03:00 -
[2751] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: I've stated my questions at CCP and to the public in general.
You have NOT stated any questions at CCP lol. Not even ONE. And when the public in general responds in a way you don't like, you attack them.
This is what we have established so far: -You have stated you dont want answers from CCP, and refuse to post questions to them. (You have not addressed CCP with even ONE question, anywhere) -You don't want answers from me, and refuse to post questions to me. -You post questions to other players that only CCP can answer, and then attack them for their replies. -You say you understand the Statement, and agree with CCP's actions towards Erotica1.
What exactly are you doing in this thread? I mean seriously, what the hell is your point here? ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:28:00 -
[2752] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: I've stated my questions at CCP and to the public in general. You have NOT stated any questions at CCP lol. Not even ONE. So confirming you haven't read the thread.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:And when the public in general responds in a way you don't like, you attack them. Citation needed. When you cone on and start calling people stupid, and half quoting, misquoting and reinterpreting what thy say, I call you a troll. And that's what you are, that's what you do, just look at the posts in both this thread and others. Hell, look at how many of your posts have been removed as personal attacks. Whole days have just vanished from it.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:This is what we have established so far: -You have stated you dont want answers from CCP, and refuse to post questions to them. (You have not addressed CCP with even ONE question, anywhere) -You don't want answers from me, and refuse to post questions to me. -You post questions to other players that only CCP can answer, and then attack them for their replies. -You say you understand the Statement, and agree with CCP's actions towards Erotica1.
What exactly are you doing in this thread? I mean seriously, what the hell is your point here? No, this is what you have established, based on nothing.
I tell you want, just to give you something to read since you clearly can;t be bothered to go back and tread the thread that you are replying to here's a few of the questions posed.
At what point does the EVE EULA stop being relevant outside of EVE? What mediums does the EULA cover? (so blogs, voice comms, twitter, etc) When a player gets upset, do we always have to stop immediately, or is there a bar? And does this cover in game as well as out of game comms? Does a bumper bumping for hours have to stop if the player gets upset in local chat? Also, if a player doesn't post the evidence themselves like Erotica 1 did, does that mean they can freely harass on third party comms as you can't prove it's them?
What it boils down to is that CCP make the decision on whether a given scenario is harassment, but harassment is entirely subjective (which this thread proves there's no solid consensus on what "too far" means). So CCP need to clarify what THEY consider harassment. Also, since third party comms and services have always been exempt from the EULA, which they are now not, so the extent of that change is pretty important. Regarding the specific case it's also questionable why Erotica 1 was the only one banned, since even if you ignore Sohkars outbursts, there are several people on the recording that are in a lot of bonus rooms and were just as complicit in this case.
It also raises questions over whether this will stop harassment or just bury it. Arguably, because Erotica 1 posted it publicly knowing full well that harassment is not acceptable, then the intent was never to harass (which I have had confirmed directly, as well as hearing evidenced on comms from before this incident). People that do intend to harass will still be able to since third party comms can't be proven to be genuine. So this gives a false sense of security to victims of harassment who will feel they are more safe than they are on third party comms, and could potentially open up the possibility of abuse from someone determined to get someone banned using false evidence. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1089
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:32:00 -
[2753] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: At what point does the EVE EULA stop being relevant outside of EVE?
Ask CCP.
Lucas Kell wrote:What mediums does the EULA cover? (so blogs, voice comms, twitter, etc) Ask CCP.
Lucas Kell wrote:When a player gets upset, do we always have to stop immediately, or is there a bar? And does this cover in game as well as out of game comms? Ask CCP.
Lucas Kell wrote:Does a bumper bumping for hours have to stop if the player gets upset in local chat? Ask CCP.
Lucas Kell wrote:Also, if a player doesn't post the evidence themselves like Erotica 1 did, does that mean they can freely harass on third party comms as you can't prove it's them? Ask CCP.
Do you get the picture? ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:38:00 -
[2754] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ask CCP.
Do you get the picture? Oh look, a troll post, how surprising! I have asked CCP, both here and through other avenues of communication. You could at the very least try to get your facts straight before your little troll attempts lol.
Seriously though, why do you even bother responding if all you are going to respond with is rubbish? Why not just not say anything at all? Is it so important that everyone sees that you have yet another troll post on your belt? The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1089
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:42:00 -
[2755] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: I have asked CCP, both here and through other avenues of communication. You could at the very least try to get your facts straight before your little troll attempts lol.
Where here have you asked CCP these questions?
You claim that as a fact. Where here have you addressed those questions to CCP? ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 13:52:00 -
[2756] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: I have asked CCP, both here and through other avenues of communication. You could at the very least try to get your facts straight before your little troll attempts lol.
Where here have you asked CCP these questions? You claim that as a fact. Where here have you addressed those questions to CCP? In this thread. I'm not doing your job for you. You don't want to read, that entirely up to you. I'm done feeding you. Back to your bridge. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1091
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:06:00 -
[2757] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: I have asked CCP, both here and through other avenues of communication. You could at the very least try to get your facts straight before your little troll attempts lol.
Where here have you asked CCP these questions? You claim that as a fact. Where here have you addressed those questions to CCP? In this thread. I'm not doing your job for you. You don't want to read, that entirely up to you. I'm done feeding you. Back to your bridge.
You have not addressed your questions to CCP in this thread though. You claim you have as a fact, but it is false.
When I specifically recommended to you earlier in this thread to do exactly that, that you should address your questions to CCP, you stated a categorical refusal to do so.
I'm sorry, but that is a fact.
My recommendation still stands. Write up your questions and address them to CCP in this thread, instead of asking randoms questions they are in no position to answer, and then attacking them for that. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:13:00 -
[2758] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:You have not addressed your questions to CCP in this thread though. You claim you have as a fact, but it is false. Incorrect.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:When I specifically recommended to you earlier in this thread to do exactly that, that you should address your questions to CCP, you stated a categorical refusal to do so. That was not this thread. Also I didn't categorically state I wasn't going to ask CCP, I just wasn't going to do it based on your format. You want everyone to write a little letter that says "Dearest CCP, blah blah blah". What's most amusing is when someone did buckle to your demands and write it in your format, you then proceeded to answer them anyway lol. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5944
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:15:00 -
[2759] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:..... Not on topic Please don't hijack other posts just because your's got locked. Read the locked topic, ISD referred me to this thread with my issue. Take it up with him. I have unsubbed all 8 accounts, now that I have stopped plexing I usually spend 200 per month on plex, that's around 4000 dollars per year I won't be paying CCP. Which in restrospect is a pretty absurd amount of money anyway.
OMG.
CCP brings in something like $50,000,000 from EVE right? How ever will CCP survive on revenues of only $49,996,000?
What have you done to yourselves CCP??????? With this kind of massive $4000 loss you will have no choice but to sell the fine china and use paper plates at fan fest!!! |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:18:00 -
[2760] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:..... Not on topic Please don't hijack other posts just because your's got locked. Read the locked topic, ISD referred me to this thread with my issue. Take it up with him. I have unsubbed all 8 accounts, now that I have stopped plexing I usually spend 200 per month on plex, that's around 4000 dollars per year I won't be paying CCP. Which in restrospect is a pretty absurd amount of money anyway. OMG. CCP brings in something like $50,000,000 from EVE right? How ever will CCP survive on revenues of only $49,996,000? What have you done to yourselves CCP??????? With this kind of massive $4000 loss you will have no choice but to sell the fine china and use paper plates at fan fest!!! Actually, CCPs last financial statement was shaky at best. I'm not sure if what IZ says is correct, but if someone is following people around saying that kind of stuff and not getting banned, that's a bad sign. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
1091
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:24:00 -
[2761] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I have asked CCP, both here and through other avenues of communication. You could at the very least try to get your facts straight before your little troll attempts lol.
Here is proof you have not, and infact categorically refused to do so when it was recommended to you by multiple posters, repeatedly:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4412404#post4412404 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4412420#post4412420 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4412446#post4412446 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4412707#post4412707
Here is a particular gem:
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Why was this exact response, which is a response from a GM, not given to this scenario? Why in this one instance is an "out of game activity"? When not "all the correspondences or conversations happened within EVE"? Why dont you ask CCP directly instead of a player who is no position to answer it? Don't want to.
So all that remains, is you deliberately antagonising other posters with questions that nobody except CCP can answer, all the while categorically refusing to address those questions to the only addressee qualified to and capable of answering them, which is CCP.
You don't want answers. You just want to attack other posters.
That is called trolling. ------------ |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
17840
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:25:00 -
[2762] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Actually, CCPs last financial statement was shaky at best. I'm not sure if what IZ says is correct, but if someone is following people around saying that kind of stuff and not getting banned, that's a bad sign. Given the spin that IZ usually puts on things I'd have to say any claims made by him in that thread were probably grossly over exaggerated, some of his past posts are downright lies or disinformation.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:33:00 -
[2763] - Quote
So at what point in those am I asking CCP not to answer them? I didn't follow your posting structure, neither did I post a ticket like the other guys was demanding. I also not that there are posts where I explicity states that CCP needs to answer them, even in one of the posts you put there. You seem to think that if they are posted to the public that CCP will not answer them. Stop being such a little troll. Seriously I get it. You don't want my questions to be answered so you will repeatedly attack me. You demanded I give you a list of questions, which when I did you posted "ASK CCP" repeatedly. How the that even remotely useful?
Plain and simple: If you have nothing relevant to add to the discussion, then **** off. It's not hard to understand. You have nothing to add and you don;t want to add anything. All you want to do is provide layers and layers of troll posts to obfuscate the issues here. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1092
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:35:00 -
[2764] - Quote
As shown here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4483078#post4483078
You are: A) Outright lying. B) Have shown you refuse to ask CCP your questions. C) Have infact NOT asked CCP your questions here, despite lying that you have. D) Pestering other posters with questions that only CCP can answer. E) Attacking them and insulting them for their answers to those questions.
All of this is evidenced. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:44:00 -
[2765] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:As shown here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4483078#post4483078You are: A) Outright lying. B) Have shown you refuse to ask CCP your questions here, despite being recommended repeatedly to do so. C) Have infact NOT asked CCP your questions here, despite lying that you have. D) Pestering other posters with questions that only CCP can answer. E) Attacking them and insulting them for their answers to those questions. All of this is evidenced. If you are not here for answers from CCP OR from other players, what the hell are you doing here? Seems very much like just trolling and antagonising other posters because you are bored at work or something. Oh stop being such a troll. A) No I'm not. You've stated I never asked CCP, which is completely false. I just didn't ask in YOUR WAY, since you are not my master. B) Again, I've asked CCP. On top of that, they clearly know the questions are for them, as it's been stated multiple times. If it's unclear: CCP, my questions are for you. C) I have in fact asked CCP here, multiple times (by the way, A, B and C are the same) D) No, I ask CCP, AND put them up for public discussion. you don;t want to discuss them which is fine, but instead of just not commenting, you decided to troll on telling me I have to post a formal letter to CCP. E) You personally attack practically everyone in all of the threads you are involved in, from post 1. This is demonstrated by the number of your posts removed from the forums by ISDs. to suggest I'm personally attack you for calling you at troll because you babble on the SAME **** for hours on end is completely ludicrous.
Most importantly though, answer this: What are you adding to the conversation? The answers is NOTHING. Because you are only here to troll. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Wulfgar WarHammer
Imperium Research Inc
107
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:45:00 -
[2766] - Quote
just gonna go ahead and leave this here... |
Salvos Rhoska
1094
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:51:00 -
[2767] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:As shown here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4483078#post4483078You are: A) Outright lying. B) Have shown you refuse to ask CCP your questions here, despite being recommended repeatedly to do so. C) Have infact NOT asked CCP your questions here, despite lying that you have. D) Pestering other posters with questions that only CCP can answer. E) Attacking them and insulting them for their answers to those questions. All of this is evidenced. If you are not here for answers from CCP OR from other players, what the hell are you doing here? Seems very much like just trolling and antagonising other posters because you are bored at work or something. .
All of what I said is true.
The matter has been settled to the satisfaction of the community and the CSM.
If you have questions for CCP about their policy, then ASK CCP and stop pestering other players with your trolling. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:56:00 -
[2768] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:All of what I said is true.
The matter has been settled to the satisfaction of the community and the CSM.
If you have questions for CCP about their policy, then ASK CCP and stop pestering other players with your trolling. This is a discussion thread. In General discussion. It's used for discussing things. If you don't want to discuss things, then **** off. It's that simple. Unless you convince CCP to close this thread, I, and others, can and will continue to discuss this matter here. I couldn't care less whether you think it's done and dusted, you are nothing but a troll. You have nothing to add, you come here purely to troll. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5949
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 14:59:00 -
[2769] - Quote
Wulfgar WarHammer wrote:just gonna go ahead and leave this here...
lol, noes 4000 bucks gone noooooooo.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1095
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 15:13:00 -
[2770] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You have nothing to add, you come here purely to troll.
All you are doing, is attacking and insulting other posters and pestering other posters with questions that only CCP can answer, as if their answers made any difference, and which you only attack and insult anyways.
Its you who are trolling here.
If you wanted answers, if you had a constructive purpose, you would present your questions to CCP, but you dont want answers. You just want to provoke and attack other posters here. ------------ |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 15:23:00 -
[2771] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:You have nothing to add, you come here purely to troll. All you are doing, is attacking and insulting other posters and pestering other posters with questions that only CCP can answer, as if their answers made any difference, and which you only attack and insult anyways. Its you who are trolling here. If you wanted answers, if you had a constructive purpose, you would present your questions to CCP, but you dont want answers. You just want to provoke and attack other posters here. How? Other than responses to you, I have had plenty of good discussions here. It's only because you come along with the attitude of "I don't want to discuss it, therefore discussion closed" that we have any issues. And the thing is, every discussion where you get involved is the same. You come in, start calling people stupid, misquoting people and repeating yourself over and over. You are a known forum troll. (by the way, the "i know you are so what am I" approach is still not working for you.
And I have stated my questions to CCP, AND to the public. How to you not understand that this is a discussion thread? For people to discuss.
Now once again: If you want to discuss the topic of the thread, do so. If not, go away. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1095
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 15:28:00 -
[2772] - Quote
Massive post of ad hominem and insults.
Yeah, we can all see who the troll is pretty clearly.
Stop harassing other posters with questions that only CCP can answer. If you want the answers to those questions, then ASK CCP! ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 15:38:00 -
[2773] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Massive post of ad hominem and insults.
Yeah, we can all see who the troll is pretty clearly.
Stop harassing other posters with questions that only CCP can answer. If you want the answers to those questions, then ASK CCP! If you want to discuss the topic of the thread, do so. If not, go away.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1095
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 15:54:00 -
[2774] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Massive post of ad hominem and insults.
Yeah, we can all see who the troll is pretty clearly.
Stop harassing other posters with questions that only CCP can answer. If you want the answers to those questions, then ASK CCP! If you want to discuss the topic of the thread, do so. If not, go away.
Yes, I want to discuss the topic of the thread.
I am happy with how CCP conducted itself in this matter, and am pleased to hear that CSM watchdogged the process as well as approved the resulting Statement.
I think its a success story and a credit to the entire community.
The sandbox, and its borders, remain under the recognizance of CCP and their own reserved levity for action, which inturn, means more freedom for us all.
No policy change was needed. No TOS or EULA change. Simply a statement reinforcing on, and elaborating on, intent and what sections of the above will be enacted and observed in future instances of this kind.
A simple and elegant solution. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 16:10:00 -
[2775] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Yes, I want to discuss the topic of the thread.
I am happy with how CCP conducted itself in this matter, and am pleased to hear that CSM watchdogged the process as well as approved the resulting Statement.
I think its a success story and a credit to the entire community.
The sandbox, and its borders, remain under the recognizance of CCP and their own reserved levity for action, which inturn, means more freedom for us all.
No policy change was needed. No TOS or EULA change. Simply a statement reinforcing on, and elaborating on, intent and what sections of the above will be enacted and observed in future instances of this kind.
A simple and elegant solution. Brilliant. I disagree. I feel the CSM raised it in an unprofessional matter and that CCP went against previous rules in short time to reduce the impact of the negative publicity brought on by Ripard.
With the boundaries clearly having changed (as they previously have stated that under no circumstances do they deal with third party services) , I feel the sandbox is now being choked by a level of fear brought on by the vague nature of their ruling.
I agree that no policy change was needed, however there was a clear policy change brought on by this situation (see third party services comment above) and so the nature of that change needs to be defined as are other rules in the ToS/EULA. The current statement leaves far to big a grey area which as I sated above will enforce restrictions in gameplay through fear of unpredictable repercussions, forcing people to avoid doing anything that might upset another player. Being that a big part of this game is the "be the villain" campaign where CCP encourage players to destroy the work of thousands of other players, this would seem to be pretty much the opposite of what they are going for.
Some questions this raises for CCP to answer are:
- At what point does the EVE EULA stop being relevant outside of EVE?
- What mediums does the EULA cover? (so blogs, voice comms, twitter, etc)
- When a player gets upset, do we always have to stop immediately, or is there a bar?
- And does this cover in game as well as out of game comms?
- Does a bumper bumping for hours have to stop if the player gets upset in local chat?
- Also, if a player doesn't post the evidence themselves like Erotica 1 did, does that mean they can freely harass on third party comms as you can't prove it's them?
What it boils down to is that CCP make the decision on whether a given scenario is harassment, but harassment is entirely subjective (which this thread proves there's no solid consensus on what "too far" means). So CCP need to clarify what they consider harassment. Also, since third party comms and services have always been exempt from the EULA, which they are now not, so the extent of that change is pretty important. Regarding the specific case it's also questionable why Erotica 1 was the only one banned, since even if you ignore Sohkars outbursts, there are several people on the recording that are in a lot of bonus rooms and were just as complicit in this case.
It also raises questions over whether this will stop harassment or just bury it. Arguably, because Erotica 1 posted it publicly knowing full well that harassment is not acceptable, then the intent was never to harass (which I have had confirmed directly, as well as hearing evidenced on comms from before this incident). People that do intend to harass will still be able to since third party comms can't be proven to be genuine. So this gives a false sense of security to victims of harassment who will feel they are more safe than they are on third party comms, and could potentially open up the possibility of abuse from someone determined to get someone banned using false evidence. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1096
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 16:25:00 -
[2776] - Quote
I disagree with everything you said completely.
I think its all complete nonsense and has no ground to stand on.
CCP handled the matter well, and the only one whining, is you.
If you don't like it, you are free to unsub and leave. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3186
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 16:34:00 -
[2777] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I disagree with everything you said completely. Opinion noted.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I think its all complete nonsense and has no ground to stand on. Opinion noted.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:CCP handled the matter well, and the only one whining, is you. Nobody is "whining" and more people that me share the concern, but opinion (and subtle attack) noted nontheless.
Salvos Rhoska wrote:If you don't like it, you are free to unsub and leave. Understood. I'll choose to stay, and continue to voice my opinions here. Thank you for taking the time to respond. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Danalee
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
920
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 18:23:00 -
[2778] - Quote
Hello CCP (and also hello EVE players).
Quite some pages ago, I posed some questions as suggested in the OP. They remain unanswered.
Since refrasing my questions is interpreted by the mods as spamming, I won't do that. But this message serves just as a reminder that we are still waiting for some answers.
Meanwhile I feel very sad about some things Salvos Rhoska keeps moaning about, I'd appreciate it if he'd just stop being such a big fat troll and behaves like a normal person does. Not troll-like
D.
Psychotic Monk: I see nothing in a bonus room that hasn't been an accepted and celebrated part of eve online basically forever and I see no reason that we should fundamentally harm the uniqueness of this game for some people who seem to have forgotten that. |
Salvos Rhoska
1103
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 18:30:00 -
[2779] - Quote
I was going to like your post, and support that you get answers to the questions you properly addressed to CCP. But then you insulted me at the end of your post, and I had a sad. ------------ |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
715
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 20:04:00 -
[2780] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:...
My ultimate point is this. CCP should not get involved with the decisions people make, however poor or self destructive they are. The bonus room is all about decision making. ... There is not a clear line between in game and real life because EVE is real. EVE is human interaction in a sci-fi setting. Nothing more and nothing less. Real Life harassment is intrinsic to the nature of human interaction. The bonus room is all about decision making huh? So the victim is at fault.
When he could have DCed at any time, yes.
What better destroys your argument is that the 'victim' doesnt think he's a victim and disagrees that any harassment even occurred
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:I studied Constitutional Law for 2yrs in the UK, and can flat out say from the above that you do not understand the legal structure, both formal and informal, of your own government. Also, "chairs" is an incorrect term. Universities have "chairs", Ministries have "cases". Sure you did, and the government always agrees with each other, has sips of tea, says "righto" a lot, and when they disagree, one side always resigns his position. We also have bad teeth and we queue a lot. Answer me this, is there anything you won't argue, and that you don't supposedly know better than everyone else about? I know you think you are a pretty smart guy, but you don't actually come off that way. You quite literally argue about everything, regardless of how ridiculous. By the way, if you studied law, does that mean you are a lawyer and/or have a law degree like some people have claimed which you reckon you've never said?
So what the **** does constitutional law have **** to do with a video game? And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
715
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 20:09:00 -
[2781] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:This is like arguing with children. Incredible that adults can be so ignorant, and speaks volumes to the importance of education.
When you cant win the argument go for the personal attacks.
Internet debate 101
Loko Crackhead wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Thats all I wanna know so I know who to report.
Griefing/griefer Here you go. Now, take note that each game developer has his own policy about this and in my opinion CCP has the most relaxed policy about it by comparison with all the important developers that have a MMORPG on the market.
you are not CCP. Are you aware that impersonating CCP officials can get you banned?
(yes, thats a joke)
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:..... Not on topic Please don't hijack other posts just because your's got locked.
Well when they lock your thread and point to this one to post in (which is how they always do that) where would YOU suggest she put it (after being told to post it here)? And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
715
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 20:18:00 -
[2782] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Categorically refuses to submit a list of questions of what he does not understand so as to be able to understand it, but continues to claim he does not understand it Well, that's that then. You don't even want answers. Case closed. So basically your only reason here is to antagonise other posters? If you don't want answers, what the hell do you want?
Says the Fox News debater of EVE
lol
Mallak Azaria wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:I have unsubbed all 8 accounts A cyber-bully leaves EVE of his own free will when CCP refuses to pander to his disgusting state of mind. Good.
Youre saying Infinity was the cyber bully? Thought she was the one BEING bullied? And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
715
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 20:23:00 -
[2783] - Quote
This is hard to format, too many quotes -.- Salvos Rhoska: Ask CCP.
we are
we are
we are
we are
we are
Quote: Do you get the picture?
Do you?
Sorry about the multiposting, was getting caught up And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
715
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 20:26:00 -
[2784] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Hello CCP (and also hello EVE players). Quite some pages ago, I posed some questions as suggested in the OP. They remain unanswered. Since refrasing my questions is interpreted by the mods as spamming, I won't do that. But this message serves just as a reminder that we are still waiting for some answers. Meanwhile I feel very sad about some things Salvos Rhoska keeps moaning about, I'd appreciate it if he'd just stop being such a big fat troll and behaves like a normal person does. Not troll-like D.
mail em to me an ill ask them. I havent asked them before XD And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1161
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 22:39:00 -
[2785] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
411
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 02:18:00 -
[2786] - Quote
Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:
The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused?
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
722
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 03:11:00 -
[2787] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:
The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused?
none And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
133
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 09:07:00 -
[2788] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:
The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused?
You don't have any, and hell yes it will be abused.
IB4 ISD deletes my post for 'personal attacks' like every other post I've made in this thread, that in no way can actually be construed as a personal attack >.>
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
725
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 14:47:00 -
[2789] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:
The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused? You don't have any, and hell yes it will be abused.
Theyve proven in the past that this one thing can be counted on.
And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5274
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 19:51:00 -
[2790] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:
The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused?
You either trust that it won't or you leave the game.
Or you use the Malkavian option. Keep paying a sub for the express purpose of whining in a forum.
Either way, CCP wins. You lose.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
|
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
419
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 13:58:00 -
[2791] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:
The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused? You either trust that it won't or you leave the game. Or you use the Malkavian option. Keep paying a sub for the express purpose of whining in a forum. Either way, CCP wins. You lose. Mr Epeen
I'll be honest, I stay subbed just for the eventual lawsuit. They might win in the short term via my sub money, but I think the payoff will be worth it in the end to drink CCP tears when they find out that I was right about something I've posted warning them about repeatedly. Yet Again.
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
729
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 17:24:00 -
[2792] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:
The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused? You either trust that it won't or you leave the game. Or you use the Malkavian option. Keep paying a sub for the express purpose of whining in a forum. Either way, CCP wins. You lose. Mr Epeen
lol I love you guys up CCP's ass. How do you breathe?
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:
The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused? You either trust that it won't or you leave the game. Or you use the Malkavian option. Keep paying a sub for the express purpose of whining in a forum. Either way, CCP wins. You lose. Mr Epeen I'll be honest, I stay subbed just for the eventual lawsuit. They might win in the short term via my sub money, but I think the payoff will be worth it in the end to drink CCP tears when they find out that I was right about something I've posted warning them about repeatedly. Yet Again.
really -.- lawsuits over video games.
stop poasting, youre making the rest of us look insane.
lol And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
797
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 18:49:00 -
[2793] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:
The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused? You either trust that it won't or you leave the game. Or you use the Malkavian option. Keep paying a sub for the express purpose of whining in a forum. Either way, CCP wins. You lose. Mr Epeen I'll be honest, I stay subbed just for the eventual lawsuit. They might win in the short term via my sub money, but I think the payoff will be worth it in the end to drink CCP tears when they find out that I was right about something I've posted warning them about repeatedly. Yet Again.
Thanks for the laugh! |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
422
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 21:37:00 -
[2794] - Quote
You guys laugh, but in the US at least, I'm deadly serious. Companies are people, EULAs have little legal weight (or none at all in some districts), and software, inclusing games, is property, not a service. Even better, under US law CCP can have suit brought against them in the US regardless of what the EULA says because they are considered to do significant business there.
So, I'm waiting to see how long it is before CCP gets blamed for someone losing a lot of stuff (which thanks to plex, can have an actual monetary value), and their lawyer tell them to go ahead and sue.
Depending on what district they're in when they take it before a judge, they actually have pretty good odds as long as they can prove the company was at fault.
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5277
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 22:06:00 -
[2795] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:but in the US at least,
Stopped reading right there.
Repeat after me. CCP is an ICELANDIC company.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1170
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 23:22:00 -
[2796] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it.
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
733
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 04:05:00 -
[2797] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:but in the US at least, Stopped reading right there. Repeat after me. CCP is an ICELANDIC company. Mr Epeen
EVEN in the US thats just stupid lol And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
702
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 06:00:00 -
[2798] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Let me try it this way, as far as I can tell this question in no way violates any rule of the forum:
The grounds as outlined seem very broad and vague. What assurance do we have that this will not be abused? You either trust that it won't or you leave the game. Or you use the Malkavian option. Keep paying a sub for the express purpose of whining in a forum. Either way, CCP wins. You lose. Mr Epeen I'll be honest, I stay subbed just for the eventual lawsuit. They might win in the short term via my sub money, but I think the payoff will be worth it in the end to drink CCP tears when they find out that I was right about something I've posted warning them about repeatedly. Yet Again.
I'm curious, what lawsuit do you see coming? I'm interested in knowing what you claim. |
Cassandra Aurilien
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 06:32:00 -
[2799] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:You guys laugh, but in the US at least, I'm deadly serious. Companies are people, EULAs have little legal weight (or none at all in some districts), and software, inclusing games, is property, not a service. Even better, under US law CCP can have suit brought against them in the US regardless of what the EULA says because they are considered to do significant business there.
So, I'm waiting to see how long it is before CCP gets blamed for someone losing a lot of stuff (which thanks to plex, can have an actual monetary value), and their lawyer tell them to go ahead and sue.
Depending on what district they're in when they take it before a judge, they actually have pretty good odds as long as they can prove the company was at fault.
If my memory serves...
Software is sold as a license. (You own the right to use it, rather than actually owning it.) To accept the license, you must accept the EULA. (If you do not accept the license, you have no right to the software.) That is why reverse engineering is often illegal - it's normally forbidden by the terms of the EULA - and that's been upheld by quite a number of courts over the years.
Your assets in game are not what you are paying for, you are paying for the right to use the software, under the terms they set.
You could sue them, but generally your return would be rather limited. The U.S. courts are all over the place regarding EULAs, some provisions under some EULAs have been generally established by precedent to be airtight, some have not. As they fall under contract law, parts of them may or may not apply depending on where you are, and the venue the suit is placed under.
Now in terms of someone suing for losing something in game to another player? Playing a video game where the established, published & well-known rules allow destruction of assets would probably result in most judges dismissing the suit in short order, but with the courts being what they are, who knows?
I would expect that the court would treat it no differently than a demolition derby, you would be mad to attempt to sue someone for destroying your vehicle during one, had you entered it in one. There would have to be a violation of the understood rules of the competition for such a suit to stand a chance of success.
I could be wrong.
Edit: Corrected a miskey. |
Katrinna Voight-Kampf
University of Caille Gallente Federation
29
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 08:57:00 -
[2800] - Quote
Shame on CCP for letting ripard teg get away with this.... We are back to witch hunt days.... |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3460
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 16:56:00 -
[2801] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJNsQPRSWpY&feature=kp *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
739
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 19:34:00 -
[2802] - Quote
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:Shame on CCP for letting ripard teg get away with this.... We are back to witch hunt days....
Now just remember, if someone in EVE touches you in a bad place, you blog about it or Ripard to carry your flag for you (as he's all about removing evil from EVE) And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
798
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 20:45:00 -
[2803] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:Shame on CCP for letting ripard teg get away with this.... We are back to witch hunt days.... Now just remember, if someone in EVE touches you in a bad place, you blog about it or Ripard to carry your flag for you (as he's all about removing evil from EVE) Why do you think CCP includes the model ship with the collectors edition.
"Can you show us on the model where the bad man touched you?" |
Snupe Doggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 21:37:00 -
[2804] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:[quote=Katrinna Voight-Kampf]just remember, if someone in EVE touches you in a bad place, you blog about it... Reminder: if you use the game to lure a player outside of the game to harass them, then are careless enough to brag about it on CCP's own forums, posting the evidence of your misuse of the game and making it easy for the rest of the world to find it in close association with CCP's trademarks, in-game consequences are more likely--no matter how many accomplices complain.
|
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
799
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 22:17:00 -
[2805] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:[quote=Katrinna Voight-Kampf]just remember, if someone in EVE touches you in a bad place, you blog about it... Reminder: if you use the game to lure a player outside of the game to harass them, then are careless enough to brag about it on CCP's own forums, posting the evidence of your misuse of the game and making it easy for the rest of the world to find it in close association with CCP's trademarks, in-game consequences are more likely--no matter how many accomplices complain. Is that where you lure them out of their house to videotape them being silly?
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
744
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 22:56:00 -
[2806] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:[quote=Katrinna Voight-Kampf]just remember, if someone in EVE touches you in a bad place, you blog about it... Reminder: if you use the game to lure a player outside of the game to harass them, then are careless enough to brag about it on CCP's own forums, posting the evidence of your misuse of the game and making it easy for the rest of the world to find it in close association with CCP's trademarks, in-game consequences are more likely--no matter how many victims complain.
fixt
So if someone does something stupid in fleet and makes me mad, I can get them banned, right?
Since the fleet isnt ever using eve voice and TS is out of game (after all thats the out of game part of the out of game harassment).
So hey, you can do the same thing, you just have to use EVE Voice. Then its not out of game! No foul! And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
135
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 01:57:00 -
[2807] - Quote
Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:Shame on CCP for letting ripard teg get away with this.... We are back to witch hunt days....
Basically that's what happened...
I can quickly see this becoming the new null sec meta game. Get your enemies banned if you have enough of the community backing to start a threadnaught and start a witch hunt.
My only concern here is this is going to be heavily abused by other players...
Also if this was so heinous, Why wasn't any of the escrow agents that were there and participated in this particular bonus room also actioned? Why wasn't sokar actioned for his rant at the end of the recording? Why was no action action taken when this particular bonus room was bought to the forums a month earlier other then a bunch of locked threads?
Did it really take a blog to get an other player banned? If so, I think I'm going to get into the blog writing business I really don't think anyone would have cared if the ban hammer swung back in February when this became known and it hit everyone involved, not just one player.
You look at the evidence it does look like a witch hunt against 1 particular player started by another player with an axe to grind. This put CCP between a rock and a hard-place and at that point they really didn't have any choice, but to act the way they did. I see why it was done, doesn't necessarily make it right though. Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
135
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 02:05:00 -
[2808] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: So if someone does something stupid in fleet and makes me mad, I can get them banned, right?
According to Ripard, the rest of CSM, and CCP, Yes you can get them banned. Like I have said in my last post welcome to the new null sec meta...
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
135
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 02:09:00 -
[2809] - Quote
Snupe Doggur wrote: no matter how many accomplices complain.
And yet none of those accomplices were punished either, because the threadnaught and pitch forks were only pointed at 1 player and not everyone at fault... Interesting...
Confirming you cant get banned participating in a bonus room acting as an escrow agent so long as you aren't a ring leader >.>
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
731
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 02:10:00 -
[2810] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:[. I see why it was done, doesn't necessarily make it right though....
Right. Good for business. It's nice when they intersect.
Personally, i like the way this turned out and feel that a mendacious or vindictive attempt to start a witch-hunt similar would just look silly and be ignored. The whiny sympathetic types have a voice, the callous moral cretins have a voice, but the owners have the final word. All is well.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3249
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 14:28:00 -
[2811] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Personally, i like the way this turned out and feel that a mendacious or vindictive attempt to start a witch-hunt similar would just look silly and be ignored. The whiny sympathetic types have a voice, the callous moral cretins have a voice, but the owners have the final word. All is well. Of course you like it. You don't want scammers in the game so you can carebear about, not worrying about people ruining all your fun! But that's not what EVE was designed for. The idea is you're supposed to be able to play the villain, but now it's clear you can play the villain as long as single individual in a position of power doesn't have a sad about it. You care only about the result, not the fact that CCP have gone against what they have previously stated on several occasions, and not the fact that all of this comes from a single persons agenda. You are willing to look past the "how" because you didn't like a player and liked the end result. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3494
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 15:00:00 -
[2812] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: You care only about the result, not the fact that CCP have gone against what they have previously stated on several occasions, and not the fact that all of this comes from a single persons agenda. You are willing to look past the "how" because you didn't like a player and liked the end result.
And another one of us learns the true meaning of Christmas
Lucas, it happens to us all.
This is the future, until a game with even more freedom appears.
Until then, damn the rules and hang the torpedoes!
FULL STEAM AHEAD
**** EM ALL
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
731
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 15:38:00 -
[2813] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Personally, i like the way this turned out and feel that a mendacious or vindictive attempt to start a witch-hunt similar would just look silly and be ignored. The whiny sympathetic types have a voice, the callous moral cretins have a voice, but the owners have the final word. All is well. Of course you like it. You don't want scammers in the game so you can carebear about, not worrying about people ruining all your fun! But that's not what EVE was designed for. The idea is you're supposed to be able to play the villain, but now it's clear you can play the villain as long as single individual in a position of power doesn't have a sad about it. You care only about the result, not the fact that CCP have gone against what they have previously stated on several occasions, and not the fact that all of this comes from a single persons agenda. You are willing to look past the "how" because you didn't like a player and liked the end result.
Ugh, i've already described my playstyle to you, there's no carebear in it. I've never honored a 1v1, when i catch pve fit T3s i ransom then pod them. Nobody has been banned for scamming here. CCP decided that certain actions were morally reprehensible, coincidentally, so did i. Ero actually liked quite a few of my posts in other threads. I don't care about Ero1 at all, that person spent months doing stuff that turned out to make Eve in general look lame and creepy.
You're taking this loss very badly.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
750
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 16:13:00 -
[2814] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Katrinna Voight-Kampf wrote:Shame on CCP for letting ripard teg get away with this.... We are back to witch hunt days.... Basically that's what happened... I can quickly see this becoming the new null sec meta game. Get your enemies banned if you have enough of the community backing to start a threadnaught and start a witch hunt.
Grrr Goons XD
Goons win again
And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
422
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 16:17:00 -
[2815] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:but in the US at least, Stopped reading right there. Repeat after me. CCP is an ICELANDIC company. Mr Epeen
Clearly you're behind the times as to who can be sued and where (See recent Chapterhouse v Games Workshop, who sued in Delaware... GW is based in England, Chapterhouse in Texas, Iirc). In the US, it does not matter if they're a company from Terra Del Fuego, as long as you can show they do business in the jurisdiction they're being sued in.
Cassandra Aurilien wrote: If my memory serves...
Software is sold as a license. (You own the right to use it, rather than actually owning it.) To accept the license, you must accept the EULA. (If you do not accept the license, you have no right to the software.) That is why reverse engineering is often illegal - it's normally forbidden by the terms of the EULA - and that's been upheld by quite a number of courts over the years.
Not under Section 117 of the US Copyright Act. Under that law the purchaser of a piece of software is refereed to as the 'owner'. Further, the UCC defines a software purchase as a Sale of Goods.
Thus far, Courts have generally ruled in favor of the company (Verner v Autodesk) however, this has not been entirely due to the actual law in question. The opinion attached to that Ruling suggests that it had more to do with the argument that such a precedent would damage US business than the actual terms of the law. SCOTUS has thus far refused to hear any of these cases, but Usedsoft v Oracle in the EU suggests that's likely to change in the near future.
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
750
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 16:19:00 -
[2816] - Quote
Also;
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Chopper+Rollins
Hows that work then if you have no kills?
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Chopper+Rollins#losses
HELL of a lot of losses tho
AH, same as me then, forum alt. LOL And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
750
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 16:24:00 -
[2817] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Not under Section 117 of the US Copyright Act. Under that law the purchaser of a piece of software is refereed to as the 'owner'. Further, the UCC defines a software purchase as a Sale of Goods.
Quote:-º1201 of the Copyright Act allows anyone who lawfully obtains a copy of a computer program to reverse-engineer the program to determine the functional components of the code necessary to make compatible programs. The right to reverse-engineer includes the ability to circumvent technological protections that stop users from accessing these functional elements. See http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap12.html#1201.
Neat act, that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license_agreement#Shrink-wrap_and_click-wrap_licenses And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5301
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 19:16:00 -
[2818] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Thus far, Courts have generally ruled in favor of the company .
That's exactly how it is in a corporate oligarchy like the U.S.
If you want democracy come live in my country. If you are the CEO of a multinational, then the U.S. is the best country in the world. Gamers will never have a victory in court in the U.S.
Ever.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
751
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 20:15:00 -
[2819] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Thus far, Courts have generally ruled in favor of the company .
That's exactly how it is in a corporate oligarchy like the U.S. If you want democracy come live in my country. If you are the CEO of a multinational, then the U.S. is the best country in the world. Gamers will never have a victory in court in the U.S. Ever. Mr Epeen
They already HAVE
Quote:In Specht v. Netscape Communications Corp., however, the licensee was able to download and install the software without first being required to review and positively assent to the terms of the agreement, and so the license was held to be unenforceable.
Several times in fact
At the same time, if http://www.forbes.com/sites/adriankingsleyhughes/2012/05/30/windows-8-eula-prohibits-class-action-lawsuits-against-microsoft/ is legal, yeah youre ****** And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Marsha Mallow
325
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 21:12:00 -
[2820] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Are you ever going to come out of here and be sociable. He's not coming back. But there are plenty of other perverts, go look in OOPE. Come on now, pull yourself together. Or ask James for an Ero corpse or something?
Want me to go get Ezwal to come give you a rub, uh, I mean scrub? - |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
751
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 21:14:00 -
[2821] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Are you ever going to come out of here and be sociable. He's not coming back. But there are plenty of other perverts, go look in OOPE. Come on now, pull yourself together. Or ask James for an Ero corpse or something? Want me to go get Ezwal to come give you a rub, uh, I mean scrub?
lol youre funny
And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Marsha Mallow
325
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 22:01:00 -
[2822] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:lol youre funny If you want funny, check Lucas and your posting stats on this and the other Ero/WoD threads on eve-search.
For you. Cheer up, this instant. Or I'll scream for a mod to drag you away to your own personal subforum. With Lucas - |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
143
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 00:10:00 -
[2823] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
CYNO alt would be my guess....
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
732
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 00:34:00 -
[2824] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:...
You realize youre arguing against your own playstyle, yes? If that guy you kill has an emotional reaction, thats sufficient to get you banned, for playing EVE. All it takes is a report.
Hell it doesnt even take that, it takes a blog. Which is why I kinda think youre lying about your playstyle.
100k SP scout alt here. Thanks for the interest. My playstyle is pretty much small gang PVP and lowsec thuggery. Sov null and hisec get old. WH is d-scan all day erryday. Comparing my playstyle to Ero1 and the CHOAD is just wrong. While i enjoy mad as much as the next guy, getting all contrived and evil about it would make my corpies think i was both boring and weird. It would also leave me open to accusations of making the game look like it's full of dirty idiots. No amount of ambushes, cyno blaps, dishonoured ransoms or 1v1s are ever going to wreck the game or get me banned. You can say they might, but you're just way too far from reasonable to get much support. If you think differently, gather the support of a large crowd of like-minded players and get something done. Protip: you can't.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1178
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 00:58:00 -
[2825] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
751
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 02:16:00 -
[2826] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. The Rules:4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
Wow, that was at least a page. Also; why is this even still open?
Also; how was asking a question about the UI trolling? And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
144
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 03:29:00 -
[2827] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. The Rules:4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
Okay, this is annoying... How was any of my 3 posts considered trolling this time >.>
Why have the topic open if you keep deleting our posts for 'trolling'...
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5302
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 03:58:00 -
[2828] - Quote
You two might as well get started with some new forum alts.
My magic eight ball tells me you are shortly going to need them.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
148
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 04:02:00 -
[2829] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:You two might as well get started with some new forum alts. My magic eight ball tells me you are shortly going to need them. Mr Epeen
lol, but I'm trying to figure out a way of relaying my points without getting flagged for 'trolling'. However I have the distinct feeling that anything that disagrees with the OP is 'trolling' so I guess I'm going to have to give up :(
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
1116
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 05:03:00 -
[2830] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:lol, but
Accept your defeat already, with what little dignity you have left. ------------ |
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
149
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 05:12:00 -
[2831] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:lol, but Accept your defeat already, with what little dignity you have left.
>.>
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
703
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 06:16:00 -
[2832] - Quote
I'm still waiting to find out what grounds people think CCP can be sued in the "inevitable" lawsuit. |
Marsha Mallow
327
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 06:28:00 -
[2833] - Quote
bahaha
I rly don't see why you can't just enjoy it, you were all being berks anyway. Nothing of value was lost - fgs don't stop tho
I'll just be in the shower scrubbing vigorously (thinking of edge cases etc) brb
Btw whoever is ontop of GD is in charge, i.e. last poster in this thread (Epeen is barred - start a blog or something)
GO!
- |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
152
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 06:55:00 -
[2834] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:I'm still waiting to find out what grounds people think CCP can be sued in the "inevitable" lawsuit.
There is technically no grounds to sue CCP over this, because technically they can ban you for any reason they feel like it. So yeah... Some judge would look at this and laugh whoever does sue out of the court room.
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Anya Klibor
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
703
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 07:14:00 -
[2835] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:I'm still waiting to find out what grounds people think CCP can be sued in the "inevitable" lawsuit. There is technically no grounds to sue CCP over this, because technically they can ban you for any reason they feel like it. So yeah... Some judge would look at this and laugh whoever does sue out of the court room.
I'm quite aware, and I said that to begin with; however, I want to hear from the person who said they were staying subbed just for the "inevitable lawsuit" to explain such a statement. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3503
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 07:53:00 -
[2836] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote: Why have the topic open if you keep deleting our posts for 'trolling'...
This is the single greatest mystery of the entirety of GD, nay Forums the world over *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Salvos Rhoska
1117
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 08:52:00 -
[2837] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Asia Leigh wrote: Why have the topic open if you keep deleting our posts for 'trolling'...
This is the single greatest mystery of the entirety of GD, nay Forums the world over
Because their trolling posts are being deleted for trolling. Hardly a mystery. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3511
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 08:59:00 -
[2838] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Because their trolling posts are being deleted for trolling. .
No, they aren't *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
153
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 09:03:00 -
[2839] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Asia Leigh wrote: Why have the topic open if you keep deleting our posts for 'trolling'...
This is the single greatest mystery of the entirety of GD, nay Forums the world over Because their trolling posts are being deleted for trolling. Hardly a mystery.
And you haven't been trolling in this thread either? Please. Atleast I have the balls to post on my main, same can't be said for you though >.>
IB4 post deleted for trolling >.>
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3521
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 09:11:00 -
[2840] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Asia Leigh wrote: Why have the topic open if you keep deleting our posts for 'trolling'...
This is the single greatest mystery of the entirety of GD, nay Forums the world over Because their trolling posts are being deleted for trolling. Hardly a mystery. And you haven't been trolling in this thread either? Please. Atleast I have the balls to post on my main, same can't be said for you though >.> It's true, he doesn't *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
|
Salvos Rhoska
1117
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 09:19:00 -
[2841] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Asia Leigh wrote: Why have the topic open if you keep deleting our posts for 'trolling'...
This is the single greatest mystery of the entirety of GD, nay Forums the world over Because their trolling posts are being deleted for trolling. Hardly a mystery. And you haven't been trolling in this thread either? Please. Atleast I have the balls to post on my main, same can't be said for you though >.> It's true, he doesn't
Whats this? You are soliciting for pics of my balls or something? Ladies.. plz... ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3521
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 09:21:00 -
[2842] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Whats this? You are soliciting for pics of my balls or something? Ladies.. plz...
Another thing, like truth, he doesn't have *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
157
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 09:28:00 -
[2843] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Whats this? You are soliciting for pics of my balls or something? Ladies.. plz...
And I'm the troll?
Pot meet kettle
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
1117
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 10:40:00 -
[2844] - Quote
You are the one claiming I have no *********. How else am I supposed to disprove your claim? ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3527
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 10:44:00 -
[2845] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: How else am I supposed to disprove your claim?
You can't, deal with it *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
159
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:20:00 -
[2846] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:You are the one claiming I have no balls. How else am I supposed to disprove your false claim?
Post on your main?
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
1117
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:23:00 -
[2847] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:You are the one claiming I have no balls. How else am I supposed to disprove your false claim? Post on your main?
What makes you think this is not my main? ------------ |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
159
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:27:00 -
[2848] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:You are the one claiming I have no balls. How else am I supposed to disprove your false claim? Post on your main? What makes you think this is not my main?
3 month character that has never left the noob corp? Try harder in your troll attempts please...
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3527
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:29:00 -
[2849] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: What makes you think this is not my main?
Because it isnt *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Salvos Rhoska
1117
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:39:00 -
[2850] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: What makes you think this is not my main?
Because it isnt
@Ramona and Asia:
So these are your mains then?
PS: Its not noob corp. Its NPC corp. ------------ |
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3529
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:41:00 -
[2851] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
PS: Its not noob corp.
Yeah... but it is though *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Salvos Rhoska
1117
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:47:00 -
[2852] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
PS: Its not noob corp.
Yeah... but it is though
Funny then that my Corp infact has proportionately less noobs in it, than yours :) (Not to mention inbred relatives...!) ------------ |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
160
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:51:00 -
[2853] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: What makes you think this is not my main?
Because it isnt @Ramona and Asia: So these are your mains then? PS: Its not noob corp. Its NPC corp.
Yes
And whatever, my money is on your an alt of ripard teg >.>
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3529
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 11:51:00 -
[2854] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Funny then that my Corp infact has proportionately less noobs in it, than yours :)
No it doesnt Theres only alts in my corp, no noobs *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
160
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 12:01:00 -
[2855] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:
PS: Its not noob corp.
Yeah... but it is though Funny then that my Corp infact has proportionately less noobs in it, than yours :) (Not to mention inbred relatives...!)
Hmm... Supports the banning for erotica1 for harassing another player, but is harassing another player himself >.>
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
1117
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 12:07:00 -
[2856] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: Funny then that my Corp infact has proportionately less noobs in it, than yours :)
No it doesnt Theres only alts in my corp, no noobs
Alts of yours. Hence, all noobs.
@Asia: You can leave whenever you want. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3533
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 12:11:00 -
[2857] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Alts of yours. Hence, all noobs.
Nope, wrong again *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3533
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 12:12:00 -
[2858] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:
Hmm... Supports the banning for erotica1 for harassing another player, but is harassing another player himself >.>
Hypocrisy and trolling are his only skills *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3533
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 12:16:00 -
[2859] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Nope. (Sound familiar?)
Should do.
Its what you do constantly anywhere Ive expressed an opinion. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
164
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 12:21:00 -
[2860] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: Funny then that my Corp infact has proportionately less noobs in it, than yours :)
No it doesnt Theres only alts in my corp, no noobs Alts of yours. Hence, all noobs. @Asia: You can leave whenever you want.
As can you, Have you ever positively contributed to any thread without shitting it up? Ever?
Love when you get all butt-hurt when you are called out on the floor, I find it cute
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
164
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 12:22:00 -
[2861] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Asia Leigh wrote:
Hmm... Supports the banning for erotica1 for harassing another player, but is harassing another player himself >.>
Hypocrisy and trolling are his only skills Nope. (Sound familiar?)
Yes, Whenever you post
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Salvos Rhoska
1117
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 12:47:00 -
[2862] - Quote
Hell hath no fury, like the wrath of a woman scorned :/ ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3251
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 13:11:00 -
[2863] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: What makes you think this is not my main?
Because it isnt @Ramona and Asia: So these are your mains then? PS: Its not noob corp. Its NPC corp. Just FYI, a noob corp is a starter NPC corp, one of the starting ones that players get created into. The corp you are in is by definition a noob corp, regardless of the players that are in it. If the most elite players in eve were to be in that corp, it would still be a noob corp.
That said, it would not surprise me if this is your main. You seem to have barely a grasp on the fundamental EVE mechanics and an entitlement attitude that you usually see from fresh meat before they realise that nobody will ever consider them relevant. It's probably wishful thinking for people to suggest that you are in fact a troll alt and are being dumb on purpose. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Salvos Rhoska
1120
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 13:31:00 -
[2864] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Just FYI, a noob corp is a starter NPC corp FYI, my Corp has far more Veterans than your Corp can ever dream to have. That is a cold hard fact. ------------ |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3256
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 13:46:00 -
[2865] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Just FYI, a noob corp is a starter NPC corp FYI, my Corp has far more Veterans than your Corp can ever dream to have. That is a cold hard fact. I don't doubt that, since NPC corps generally have thousands of alts of veteran players. I myself own multiple noob corp alts. That doesn't stop that corp from being a noob corp.
I feel you a purposely ignoring the actual point of what was stated to instead attack the term "noob corp" which not only is known to most people, but I have actually defined for you as you have quoted. What it boils down to now though is that either this is your main, and you are an actual noob, hence your lack of understanding of many game mechanics, or you are a troll alt acting dumb specifically to troll and lack the ******* to post as your main and speak with conviction.
Either way, nobody cares. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3558
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 13:48:00 -
[2866] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Just FYI, a noob corp is a starter NPC corp FYI, my Corp has far more Veterans than your Corp can ever dream to have. That is a cold hard fact. Clearly the words of a ...what did you claim to be? 32 year old adult man?
Ho ho ******* ho Merry Xmas *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Salvos Rhoska
1124
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 13:50:00 -
[2867] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I don't doubt that, since NPC corps generally have thousands of alts of veteran players.
Thanks for proving my point, and destroying your own. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3559
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 14:00:00 -
[2868] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Thanks for proving my point, and destroying your own.
How is pointing out that your noob corp has thousands of vets in it proving you aren't in a noob corp?
Its a noob corp by definition, not by membership *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Salvos Rhoska
1124
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 14:06:00 -
[2869] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote: >>noob corp >>has thousands of vets >>proving you aren't in a noob corp?
Try again.
Its an NPC Corp. Get your terminology and concepts right. ------------ |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1181
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 14:55:00 -
[2870] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them.
The Rules: 11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.
As there seems to be a bit of confusion as to why certain posts get deleted even if they are perceived not to be rule breaking, a little bit of explanation might be in order. If a post is found to be rule breaking it either gets edited or it gets deleted. If the latter, all posts quoting them (or replying to them without direct quoting) AND all post reacting on those quotes/replies get deleted as well for thread consistency. Even if those posts are not rule breaking in and of themselves.
For example: Post A is rule breaking and gets deleted. B replies to A, C replies to A, D however replies to B and E to K reply to D. The entire string of posts gets deleted because A is the origin of that string of posts.
Please accept this explanation as is and do not reply to it. That would be off the topic of this thread. If you are perceiving a problem with ISD behaviour on the forum or are disagreeing with the way (your) posts are being moderated, please feel free to read the CCP policies and follow the procedure found under the header 'Complaints'. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
243
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 19:37:00 -
[2871] - Quote
I've read a fair number of pages in the thread, as well as previous arguments about this.
I get the "evil universe"
I get the fear of a "meta ban-them game".
... I've always been perplexed by so many gamers thinking that anything subjective cannot be fair by definition, as if well adjusted adults (or even children on a plaground) cannot develop general rules to sports that make judgement calls about what sorts of hits or whether or not something is a trip or something are against the rules players agreed upon (or an organization like FIFA sets down)
But.. all that sort of thing and more.. is just discussion.. interesting but misses the point.
.... the whole manipulation of human emotion through human to human verbal contact using mind games and going a further step to have a motivation to ruin a person's game with loss of sp, not just personal gain
.. makes me sick. .... I just don't want to hang out in a game with that level of 'low life". I've become semi inactive for other reasons but reading about this thing just makes me say "don't go back to associating with that group of people"
Gray the line is though.. its my line not anyone else's (i'm ok with suicide ganking, others find that oddly wrong in a game where you're supposed to shoot each other, blow up space ships etc.. but thats my view).. but CCP makes the rules under which we compete and its their perogative what game environment the envision and want to attract and retain paying player for.
My personal line is human to human manipulation via voice chat.... that's my line.. ... whether it was for direct near term isk gain or to inflict damage in a malicious way factors in to my distaste... the manipulation to lose the sp makes me sick, whether or not it creates "one less guy to shoot me" in game goal
I'll keep my stuff though.. rules change, other fun features might be added or a RL friend might want to give it a spin... my stuff might be useful to me in the future. . |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
131
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 20:57:00 -
[2872] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:I'm still waiting to find out what grounds people think CCP can be sued in the "inevitable" lawsuit. There is technically no grounds to sue CCP over this, because technically they can ban you for any reason they feel like it. So yeah... Some judge would look at this and laugh whoever does sue out of the court room. This is actually not totally the case. The fact that CCP has instated PLEX, which now directly equates in game assets to real life money, put them in a precarious position. Some countries may feel that a company has no right to take away the assets of an individual even under certain guidelines. Though if it goes to court maybe the judge will laugh at the case. Who knows.
The fact is, as of now there are no precedents for a court to refer to. And this is not by chance. If you do end up in a lawsuit over some such issue there is going to be pressure from many 3rd parties (such as EA or Activision) to settle out of court. They don't want there to be a definite line in the sand so that they may continue to operate in a non-regulated fashion.
But then again, in this circumstance, the perpetrating individual might have their own legal ramifications if there does become a legal link between in game assets and real life valuation. Scamming is not legal in many places. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
131
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 21:12:00 -
[2873] - Quote
Diomedes Calypso wrote: ... I've always been perplexed by so many gamers thinking that anything subjective cannot be fair by definition, as if well adjusted adults (or even children on a plaground) cannot develop general rules to sports that make judgement calls about what sorts of hits or whether or not something is a trip or something are against the rules players agreed upon (or an organization like FIFA sets down)
Anything in game is fair game for the rules, as your analogy has pointed out. The issue at hand in this lengthy discussion is about out of game activity.
To use your analogy, it's about developing rules that dictate what you can do outside of the sport. For instance, it's like FIFA setting down a rule that disallows players from getting into a bar scuffle. Or a rule about hits and trips in private game with friends.
The big question here is where does CCP's jurisdiction end?
Quote: the whole manipulation of human emotion through human to human verbal contact using mind games and going a further step to have a motivation to ruin a person's game with loss of sp, not just personal gain makes me sick.
(i'm ok with suicide ganking, others find that oddly wrong in a game where you're supposed to shoot each other, blow up space ships etc.. but thats my view).
My personal line is human to human manipulation via voice chat.... that's my line.. ... whether it was for direct near term isk gain or to inflict damage in a malicious way factors in to my distaste... the manipulation to lose the sp makes me sick, whether or not it creates "one less guy to shoot me" in game goal
Why "verbal" contact as a limit? What about textual contact? Can you not convey the same amount of malice and ill intent through text as you can verbally? Also I'm not quite sure what you mean about "sp". What do you mean about the loss of sp and why is that such a strong issue for you? |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5302
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 22:21:00 -
[2874] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
The big question here is where does CCP's jurisdiction end?
It ends when you cancel your sub.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
173
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 22:38:00 -
[2875] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote: This is actually not totally the case. The fact that CCP has instated PLEX, which now directly equates in game assets to real life money, put them in a precarious position. Some countries may feel that a company has no right to take away the assets of an individual even under certain guidelines. Though if it goes to court maybe the judge will laugh at the case. Who knows.
How so? You paid CCP for in game pixels and you got your pixels. How much different is this to getting a LoL account perma'd after spending hundreds on Champ skins?
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
131
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 05:51:00 -
[2876] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote: This is actually not totally the case. The fact that CCP has instated PLEX, which now directly equates in game assets to real life money, put them in a precarious position. Some countries may feel that a company has no right to take away the assets of an individual even under certain guidelines. Though if it goes to court maybe the judge will laugh at the case. Who knows.
How so? You paid CCP for in game pixels and you got your pixels. How much different is this to getting a LoL account perma'd after spending hundreds on Champ skins? i'm not sure what question you're asking me....
what i'm saying is that these things don't have a legal standing currently
If you decided to hire a lawyer to get your LoL account un-"perma'd" or a refund on the purchases you made then either you settle out of court or we'll finally have some legal precedence as to how this stuff works.
That's like you buying your cable modem from your cable provider and they drop you because of whatever reason and they come and take your cable modem.
There are lots and lots of implications in areas that companies profit off of. So there's a lot of pressure to prevent cases like these from going to trial. |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
187
|
Posted - 2014.04.25 06:36:00 -
[2877] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
what i'm saying is that these things don't have a legal standing currently
Sure there is, its called an EULA and a TOS if you break it they have the right to cut off your access. Also in said EULA it states that that CCP owns your account, characters, and assets. Generally they will refund your unused time on a case by case basis, but they are under no obligation to do so under the EULA.
Erutpar Ambient wrote: If you decided to hire a lawyer to get your LoL account un-"perma'd" or a refund on the purchases you made then either you settle out of court or we'll finally have some legal precedence as to how this stuff works.
uh, no... I have yet to hear of a case where where riot refunded RP from a perma'd account... Please provide proof.
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
That's like you buying your cable modem from your cable provider and they drop you because of whatever reason and they come and take your cable modem.
Your analogy is way off. That would be the equivalent of CCP taking your computer away if you get banned.
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2224
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 11:53:00 -
[2878] - Quote
There are a few routes people can to sue a games company.
I could likely sue CCP for breach of contract, and have been looking into it n regards to recovering money I paid them in return for services they promised and did not provide.
The general idea is that every transaction is a contract. If you pay some money to somebody for something you have created a contract, the terms of contract if not specified will be what a reasonable person expects to be promised in exchange for their valuable contribution, this is so even if no specific contract is in existence - refer to Donaghue v Stevenson 1932 regarding the snail in the bottle of gingerbeer.
When a specific contract exists that contract spells out the requirements of what is promised and while a company can try to indemnify itself with clauses those clauses often have no effect on the contract if they fall outside what can be reasonably be expected to be provided.
A company can say "you agree to indemnify XXX Pty Ltd for any damages caused even if those damages are a result of negligence of XXX Pty Ltd" however that clause is in most places invalidated by statute and case law. Its only put into the contract to dissuade people from taking action or to cover XXX Pty Ltd in the limited circumstances where the clause is valid in limited areas.
Regarding Virtual Property Law, there have been some judgements made which have found virtual property to not be the sole property of the company which 'owns' them.
The main thing that stops people from suing I think is more related to the value of the property vs the cost of persuing legal action against the companies in question.
In CCP's case, I think the big issue is going to be that certain entities in game now hold vast amounts of virtual property, some properly in the area of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars given the conversion rate of isk to plex. In light of that it may become worthwhile and cost effective for someone to eventually sue CCP for damages in respect of losses.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5376
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 12:09:00 -
[2879] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
In CCP's case, I think the big issue is going to be that certain entities in game now hold vast amounts of virtual property, some properly in the area of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars given the conversion rate of isk to plex. In light of that it may become worthwhile and cost effective for someone to eventually sue CCP for damages in respect of losses.
Except for the part where the terms of service say something along the lines of "All in game assets are the exclusive property of CCP", that you click "I agree" on before you are allowed to play the game. You agreed to those terms and conditions, that nothing in the game is your legal property.
Oh, and welcome back from your temp ban. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2224
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 12:20:00 -
[2880] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:
In CCP's case, I think the big issue is going to be that certain entities in game now hold vast amounts of virtual property, some properly in the area of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars given the conversion rate of isk to plex. In light of that it may become worthwhile and cost effective for someone to eventually sue CCP for damages in respect of losses.
Except for the part where the terms of service say something along the lines of "All in game assets are the exclusive property of CCP", that you click "I agree" on before you are allowed to play the game. You agreed to those terms and conditions, that nothing in the game is your legal property. Oh, and welcome back from your temp ban. Lol I never got banned and you shouldn't be implying I did since discussing bans is not allowed haha.
Also you must have not read what I wrote. Any company can put whatever it likes in its EULA but that does not mean its legally binding.
I'm sure Shanda had a similiar clause and button in its EULA however they still lost a lawsuit filed by a player in regards to his virtual property and were ordered to pay thousands in damages in regards to losses incurred by that player on his virtual goods after he was banned.
Second life was sued in 2010 by a group of players over ownership of virtual property, I'm not sure how that went but the reality is that you can sue and apparently can win in court over ownership of virtual property irrespective of what EULA's say. EULA's are not laws and if an EULA and a law conflicts, the EULA will always, not sometimes, but always fail. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5379
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 12:21:00 -
[2881] - Quote
So when can we expect your next butthurt threadnaught?
Or did you actually tell the truth last time, and finally quit the game forever? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2224
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 12:30:00 -
[2882] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So when can we expect your next butthurt threadnaught?
Or did you actually tell the truth last time, and finally quit the game forever? Yeah I quit. Unsubbed all accounts. Won't be resubbing unless CCP scrapes the crap out of its themeparked sandbox. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5382
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 12:38:00 -
[2883] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So when can we expect your next butthurt threadnaught?
Or did you actually tell the truth last time, and finally quit the game forever? Yeah I quit. Unsubbed all accounts. Won't be resubbing unless CCP scrapes the crap out of its themeparked sandbox.
I really loved the part in your mmo.com forum post where Malcanis came and called you out for lying through your teeth. That made my day. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2224
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 12:39:00 -
[2884] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So when can we expect your next butthurt threadnaught?
Or did you actually tell the truth last time, and finally quit the game forever? Yeah I quit. Unsubbed all accounts. Won't be resubbing unless CCP scrapes the crap out of its themeparked sandbox. I really loved the part in your mmo.com forum post where Malcanis came and called you out for lying through your teeth. That made my day. Awesome. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5382
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 12:43:00 -
[2885] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Awesome.
Indeed it was. My second favorite part was how several of the people agreeing with you were condoning and advocating sexual assault against the parents of people who do naughty things in videogames.
Pretty cool company you keep, huh? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
3104
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 13:50:00 -
[2886] - Quote
- continues crying that he can't destroy infrastructure without fighting the owners ("but i want to! therefore i'm entitled to" )
- complains eve is "themeparked" |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5397
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 13:53:00 -
[2887] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:- continues crying that he can't destroy infrastructure without fighting the owners ("but i want to! therefore i'm entitled to" ) - complains eve is "themeparked"
You should photoshop the Scumbag Steve hat onto the motorcycle picture. Then we can use it as a meme. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5307
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 02:12:00 -
[2888] - Quote
In before ISD.
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2224
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 10:49:00 -
[2889] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:In before ISD. Mr Epeen Hopefully one will man up and take care of the trash... unlikely though Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Abrei-Kaii
United Earth Space Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
37
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 02:48:00 -
[2890] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So when can we expect your next butthurt threadnaught?
Or did you actually tell the truth last time, and finally quit the game forever? Yeah I quit. Unsubbed all accounts. Won't be resubbing unless CCP scrapes the crap out of its themeparked sandbox.
Your stuff, Can I have?
|
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
192
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 08:37:00 -
[2891] - Quote
Oh god... What the hell is IZ flooding the forums with his tears about this time >.> Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
192
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 08:44:00 -
[2892] - Quote
Never mind I found it :D
Infinity Ziona wrote:There are a few routes people can to sue a games company.
I could likely sue CCP for breach of contract, and have been looking into it n regards to recovering money I paid them in return for services they promised and did not provide.
The general idea is that every transaction is a contract. If you pay some money to somebody for something you have created a contract, the terms of contract if not specified will be what a reasonable person expects to be promised in exchange for their valuable contribution, this is so even if no specific contract is in existence - refer to Donaghue v Stevenson 1932 regarding the snail in the bottle of gingerbeer.
When a specific contract exists that contract spells out the requirements of what is promised and while a company can try to indemnify itself with clauses those clauses often have no effect on the contract if they fall outside what can be reasonably be expected to be provided.
A company can say "you agree to indemnify XXX Pty Ltd for any damages caused even if those damages are a result of negligence of XXX Pty Ltd" however that clause is in most places invalidated by statute and case law. Its only put into the contract to dissuade people from taking action or to cover XXX Pty Ltd in the limited circumstances where the clause is valid in limited areas.
Regarding Virtual Property Law, there have been some judgements made which have found virtual property to not be the sole property of the company which 'owns' them.
The main thing that stops people from suing I think is more related to the value of the property vs the cost of persuing legal action against the companies in question.
In CCP's case, I think the big issue is going to be that certain entities in game now hold vast amounts of virtual property, some properly in the area of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars given the conversion rate of isk to plex. In light of that it may become worthwhile and cost effective for someone to eventually sue CCP for damages in respect of losses.
So much fail in this post... What the hell are you talking about? You weren't banned, You choose not to use the service anymore... Please explain to me on what leg you have to stand on here. I would love to hear this.
Don't give up your day job, internet lawyering is not your thing. Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3698
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 13:12:00 -
[2893] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Oh god... What the hell is IZ flooding the forums with his tears about this time >.> Presumably how him smrt and we teh dum *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2236
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:05:00 -
[2894] - Quote
Asia Leigh wrote:Never mind I found it :D Infinity Ziona wrote:There are a few routes people can to sue a games company.
I could likely sue CCP for breach of contract, and have been looking into it n regards to recovering money I paid them in return for services they promised and did not provide.
The general idea is that every transaction is a contract. If you pay some money to somebody for something you have created a contract, the terms of contract if not specified will be what a reasonable person expects to be promised in exchange for their valuable contribution, this is so even if no specific contract is in existence - refer to Donaghue v Stevenson 1932 regarding the snail in the bottle of gingerbeer.
When a specific contract exists that contract spells out the requirements of what is promised and while a company can try to indemnify itself with clauses those clauses often have no effect on the contract if they fall outside what can be reasonably be expected to be provided.
A company can say "you agree to indemnify XXX Pty Ltd for any damages caused even if those damages are a result of negligence of XXX Pty Ltd" however that clause is in most places invalidated by statute and case law. Its only put into the contract to dissuade people from taking action or to cover XXX Pty Ltd in the limited circumstances where the clause is valid in limited areas.
Regarding Virtual Property Law, there have been some judgements made which have found virtual property to not be the sole property of the company which 'owns' them.
The main thing that stops people from suing I think is more related to the value of the property vs the cost of persuing legal action against the companies in question.
In CCP's case, I think the big issue is going to be that certain entities in game now hold vast amounts of virtual property, some properly in the area of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars given the conversion rate of isk to plex. In light of that it may become worthwhile and cost effective for someone to eventually sue CCP for damages in respect of losses.
So much fail in this post... What the hell are you talking about? You weren't banned, You choose not to use the service anymore... Please explain to me on what leg you have to stand on here. I would love to hear this. Don't give up your day job, internet lawyering is not your thing. You not understanding basic legal principles doesn't make me wrong. Everyone should have this basic understanding of contracts. Doesn't require being a lawyer. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1026
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:09:00 -
[2895] - Quote
Oh hello,
I thought you were gone forever. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á The Best Quote EVER Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
1026
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:14:00 -
[2896] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: You not understanding basic legal principles doesn't make me wrong. Everyone should have this basic understanding of contracts. Doesn't require being a lawyer.
No but you not understanding them dose.
You know I haven't seen divine around today, and then you show up... Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á The Best Quote EVER Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
|
Asia Leigh
Beyond New Frontier
201
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:02:00 -
[2897] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:You not understanding basic legal principles doesn't make me wrong. Everyone should have this basic understanding of contracts. Doesn't require being a lawyer.
I don't think you understand them either.... You Can't terminate a contract on your own, then sue for breach of contract. You pay for a service and your getting it. If you don't want to use it anymore that's your problem and not CCP's...
And that contract your talking about, Its called an EULA and the TOS, you know those things your supposed to read after every patch and every time you buy something from account management? Yeah, next time you don't agree with something don't click on "I AGREE", mkay?
Erotica 1: Scams someone-á-á Ripard: Makes inflamatory blog post that incites eve community and the MMO community-á Sohkar: I wasn't harrased-á-á-á-áCCP: Banned-á-á-á Moral of this story? If you don't want to get banned, don't **** off CSM |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3728
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 09:54:00 -
[2898] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Oh hello,
I thought you were gone forever.
Skank: [fast and hysterically] That's him! That's him! But he looked different. He was all painted up white like some sort of dead *****! I seen him! T-Bird he sent me in some road beers, right? Then he took him away. But, I chased him down. And he flash fried T-bird to his ******* car! Aww, T-Bird here's to you buddy. [drinks his flask]
Skank: Fire it up! Fire it up! Fire it up!
Top Dollar: Maybe we oughta just video tape this, play it back in slow motion. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
761
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 06:05:00 -
[2899] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:In before ISD. Mr Epeen Hopefully one will man up and take care of the trash... unlikely though
They still wade through this cesspool? I thought they gave it up to let som,eone do something like irl threats so they have an excuse to close it And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit. |
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
109
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 18:26:00 -
[2900] - Quote
To keep Eve-Online from being branded a "Bad sort of game because of harassment." I propose that the following takes place.
CCP shall keep and maintain an updated list of 2nd and third party websites that have Eve-Online content that is part of their website. A website with any Eve-Online content located on its pages should go through an extensive scanning process, which all know CCP has, to search for Trojan virus creators and password and account phishing software that may be located on the websites server if the server is being operated by an independent source and not a company.
The second it to create an Entry Portal Website that would contain several threads for Possible Rookies to post on in regards to joining the Eve-Online environment along with being able to watch both DEV created and player created movies to help the Possible Rookie determine if they want to sign on.
Once the Possible Rookie decides to sign on they would then have full access to the regular Forums but until they have purchased as paid for account they would be regulated to the Possible Rookie portal. |
|
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
358
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 19:21:00 -
[2901] - Quote
Wow, so IZ unsubbed. Big whoop. Doesn't mean she isn't still playing. Just means she canceled her subscription. You can still pay and play with PLEX. Until I see a screen shot showing that she biomassed, it means nothing. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3871
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 11:30:00 -
[2902] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Wow, so IZ unsubbed. Big whoop. Doesn't mean she isn't still playing. Just means she canceled her subscription. You can still pay and play with PLEX. Until I see a screen shot showing that she biomassed, it means nothing.
That sounds suspiciously like something IZ would say..... "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3876
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 12:26:00 -
[2903] - Quote
DrysonBennington wrote:To keep Eve-Online from being branded a "Bad sort of game because of harassment." I propose that the following takes place.....
It was too late by 2006 "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3916
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 09:07:00 -
[2904] - Quote
Quick question;
Are EvEMails in-game or Real Life?
For the purposes of harassment I mean.
Recently had a run in with the thread-creator of the Monument being defaced thread, so she spammed my EvE Mail a lot.
Got up this morning to find three of her alts had also done the same.
Does this count as psychological torture or just the fun of the game?
I can receive Evemails through Evegate out of game and through Evanova, so I dont have to be logged in to get these delights of literary wonder. "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
5758
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 10:02:00 -
[2905] - Quote
Yes, alt spamming is reportable. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
-áPsychotic Monk for CSM9.
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3919
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 10:47:00 -
[2906] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Yes, alt spamming is reportable.
Thanks "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Priestess Lin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
94
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 00:52:00 -
[2907] - Quote
We know the real reason you allow scamming is because it costs you too much to police it. It might save you some money but it makes also makes your game look like ****. Would you really say scamming people is a feature in EVE?
Why don't you have "the scammer" listed on your profession chart, since its supposed to be part of the game, right? The only skill you need is margin trading.
Such a joke. |
Shurgin Ambraelle
The Flying Dead Bloodline.
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 04:26:00 -
[2908] - Quote
Priestess Lin wrote:We know the real reason you allow scamming is because it costs you too much to police it. It might save you some money but it makes also makes your game look like ****. Would you really say scamming people is a feature in EVE?
Why don't you have "the scammer" listed on your profession chart, since its supposed to be part of the game, right? The only skill you need is margin trading.
Such a joke.
Hmm what about an in game police force. Woop Woop -The Gene Pool Could Use a Little Chlorine!! Proud Member of the Flying Dead/Bloodline
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3958
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 11:31:00 -
[2909] - Quote
Priestess Lin wrote:We know the real reason you allow scamming is because it costs you too much to police it. It might save you some money but it makes also makes your game look like ****. Would you really say scamming people is a feature in EVE?
Why don't you have "the scammer" listed on your profession chart, since its supposed to be part of the game, right? The only skill you need is margin trading.
Such a joke.
Scamming is part of the game because this game punishes the stupid when they do stupid things. But in-game scamming is not the topic and it is not real life harrassment. "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
748
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 23:04:00 -
[2910] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:... Scamming is part of the game because this game punishes the stupid when they do stupid things. But in-game scamming is not the topic and it is not real life harrassment.
Scamming ingame is part of the game. I've scammed some pretty smart people and some of them were cool with it afterwards. Again, where it moves into real life is common sense and not good for anybody.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good. |
|
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
837
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 23:10:00 -
[2911] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Quick question;
Are EvEMails in-game or Real Life?
For the purposes of harassment I mean.
Recently had a run in with the thread-creator of the Monument being defaced thread, so she spammed my EvE Mail a lot.
Got up this morning to find three of her alts had also done the same.
Does this count as psychological torture or just the fun of the game?
I can receive Evemails through Evegate out of game and through Evanova, so I dont have to be logged in to get these delights of literary wonder. I say report her! You might want to consider hiring a lawyer. He can subpoena the RL information of this player and sue for pain and suffering. How much mental anguish have you suffered at the hands of this person?? I bet you can barely look at your computer screen without breaking into tears. She should pay! $$$ |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 98 :: [one page] |