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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
16141
   |
Posted - 2015.06.12 13:45:47 -
[751] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
How would that work with sniper fleets, since the targets will be able to see where you intend to go which is the exact opposite of what you want.
Everyone currently use this tactic and have done for the last 12 years for almost every fleet.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Garr-Song Mishi
Fedo Collection Agency
Mad Associates
3
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Posted - 2015.06.12 13:46:48 -
[752] - Quote
Personally, I think this idea is bad as it stands.
However, I do think that if (as several others have mentioned) the idea is to increase responsibility of other pilots in fleet actions, then fine....disable fleet warps but allow squad warps. The squad commander does little other than pass on boosts currently , so having them actually do the position of their squads could only be a good thing while also mitigating the horrible impact of this change on small gangs. |
h4kun4
Heeresversuchsanstalt
The Bastion
30
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Posted - 2015.06.12 13:48:45 -
[753] - Quote
i suppose what you guys didn't consider while thinking about those changes is, that even now catching someone with probes is hard enough because a pilot that is aware of him being scanned down, can easily escape. The only chance was to warp the whole fleet onto him and hope that you might get enough points surviving to kill him, now you've got to warp there and hope that your scanner will not die before the rest of the guys land, just brilliant.
So, workaround: Probe ceptors? Probe-tackle Proteuses? Probe Dictors? (many ships will need a CPU bonus to actually fit that role)
Also, i can't imagine a bomber wing work properly on kiting targets (like ishtars) [#nerfishtars], with this, which makes them even more OP.
An many other things getting a lot riskier, especially multiaccount pve, which sounds very interesting to me in PvP matters. \o/ shooting multiminers everyday.
I will see how it is and ether reconsider my opinion or whine about later it when its out. <- as always |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc.
Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
174
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 13:50:36 -
[754] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Zappity wrote:
Anyone with a useful fit? Baltec, the expanded launcher is the one with the really high CPU requirement. Just in case you are confused.
It would be nice if just for once people such as yourself spent a bit more time figuring stuff out for yourself rather than demanding everything to be handed to you on a platter.
So basicily you admit it is not possbile.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
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baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
16141
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 13:51:25 -
[755] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:baltec1 wrote:Zappity wrote:
Anyone with a useful fit? Baltec, the expanded launcher is the one with the really high CPU requirement. Just in case you are confused.
It would be nice if just for once people such as yourself spent a bit more time figuring stuff out for yourself rather than demanding everything to be handed to you on a platter. So basicily you admit it is not possbile.
Where did I say that?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Ele Rebellion
Dead Star Syndicate
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 13:53:38 -
[756] - Quote
CCP Larrikin
btw.. Friendship > RHML Typhoon |
Canaris Roshaak
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 13:54:11 -
[757] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:baltec1 wrote:Zappity wrote:
Anyone with a useful fit? Baltec, the expanded launcher is the one with the really high CPU requirement. Just in case you are confused.
It would be nice if just for once people such as yourself spent a bit more time figuring stuff out for yourself rather than demanding everything to be handed to you on a platter. So basicily you admit it is not possbile.
Hint: T3 destroyers are fast, have good tank, and a 95% fitting reduction on probes. |
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
93
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 13:55:19 -
[758] - Quote
I am not sure this is even implementable but is there a way to share probe screens in fleet. It would still require members of fleets to warp to points but would not rule out the use of probing all together.
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Leeluvv
Maas Industries
7
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Posted - 2015.06.12 13:56:58 -
[759] - Quote
What issue/problem is this change designed to fix? i.e. Why has it even been considered? |
Alisanna
Mindstar Technology
Get Off My Lawn
4
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Posted - 2015.06.12 13:57:21 -
[760] - Quote
Tried to sleep on this one before commenting. I woke up and still feel the same.
This change is a bad one and should be strongly reconsidered.
Your stated goal is :
Quote:Q: CCP, why you do this?
A: We want transfer more responsibility for the success of a fleet from its FC to its members.
Unfortunately, this goal does very little to enhance this behavior. You've done exactly is this--
Before:
FC probes enemy fleet, FC warps fleet on top of enemy and people get content.
After:
FC probes enemy fleet, FC warps fleet on top of enemy. Enemy gets away before fleet can arrive. Less content.
Here's another scenario:
Two fleets have skirmished and one is attempting to disengage and warp out. The other attempts to pursue. The escaping fleet has a dictor drop a bubble in-line with the gate that they're running towards to prevent pursuit..
Before:
FC warps fleet to a gate ping and the chase is on.
After:
FC warps someone to a ping. 20 seconds later, warps the fleet to the ping.
Enemy fleet is long gone.
Less content.
That's just two PvP examples of how this change makes things less fun and less content oriented. We need changes that bring people into conflict with each other. Not changes that make it more difficult to get content.
Now, I recognize there is likely a subset of Eve players who are solo gankers, cloaky campers, and the like who think a change like this (making it much more difficult to deal with them) would be fine and I accept that point-of-view; however, the vast majority of people playing this game don't want it to be less fun.
Additionally, I think the effect on new pilots will be larger than you might expect. Most pilots getting into PvP have enough trouble remembering not to split their guns and to align to something. This makes it harder for them to learn and we all know what Eve needs is a steeper learning curve.
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unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc.
Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
174
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 13:57:48 -
[761] - Quote
Canaris Roshaak wrote:unimatrix0030 wrote:baltec1 wrote:Zappity wrote:
Anyone with a useful fit? Baltec, the expanded launcher is the one with the really high CPU requirement. Just in case you are confused.
It would be nice if just for once people such as yourself spent a bit more time figuring stuff out for yourself rather than demanding everything to be handed to you on a platter. So basicily you admit it is not possbile. Hint: T3 destroyers are fast, have good tank, and a 95% fitting reduction on probes.
Can't cloak, will get spotted on d-scan . Targets will be gone.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
|
Delucian
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
75
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Posted - 2015.06.12 14:00:54 -
[762] - Quote
Okay, TLDR, and I know you are tyring to play to the bottom 80% of Eve who can't - align, watch local, Dscan, be asked to lose a ship in a game about losing ships - but really!
This seems more about dumbing down for the masses than making a challenging game that entices one to become better.
Next will be that we cant have multiple ship types in a fleet. |
Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
80
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:01:26 -
[763] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:
With that said I wanted to see combat probing and bombers nerfed. This change accomplishes both. Is it exact optimum ? Thats subjective I have gotten lots of positive feedback and likes for my post in regards to the subject.
+1
Bombers and combat probing have needed fixing for a long time; personally I don't think this fix is optimal for either, but I'm grateful it's at least addressing the issue somewhat.
Bombing has been OP for such a long time, particularly with the ability to fleet warp wings...the outcome of which has been to dramatically shift and obsolete a large number of ship and fleet types. I think other changes would have been better for bombers but this is manageable at least as an interim measure.
The bigger item and which has been equally dramatic over the years is combat probing and fleet warp to zero. With the exception of *unprobable* setups, skirmish and sniping tactics have become marginalised. It's just far too easy to fleet warp a blob onto an enemy gang and use sheer weight of numbers.
Options to innovate, use skill, environment factors and tactics have been supplemented by just driving to get more people in fleet and outnumber the opponent. If this change reverses that trend, which I believe it does in part (again, somewhat inelegantly) then there will be a huge positive impact with more fleet types being flown, more strategies employed and ultimately more PVP which is good for everyone.
On the negative side;
* It feels like there are issues for WH occupants which need looking into (no opinion here, I skimmed those parts)
* Not sure why fleet-warp-to-bm's is a bad idea. if BM's can be made instantly then yes it's a loophole/workaround to removing fleet-warp-to-probe-results. There are a lot of potential mitigants which could support keeping bm's fleet warpable including delays to bm creation, visual cues/indicators that a bm is being made in space, options to reveal bm's in space etc. Perhaps this can be explored to consider the utility value of bm's which wouldn't impact on the primary drivers for this change
* Not sure why missions or anoms are a big deal here which needs addressing?
Overall, I'm happy with the negatives given the big potential upswing here.
At least we can be satisfied the Ishtar is getting nerfed for a 3rd time \o/
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unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc.
Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
174
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:01:50 -
[764] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:unimatrix0030 wrote:And i still need to see any possitive point for people who are not part of 250 man fleet alliances. Thats because you don't want to.
Pff, i can say the same thing about you not seeing the downsides of this.
But that doesn't help anyone.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
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baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
16141
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:02:54 -
[765] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:
Can't cloak, will get spotted on d-scan . Targets will be gone.
So fit for warp speed then.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
16141
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:03:42 -
[766] - Quote
unimatrix0030 wrote:baltec1 wrote:unimatrix0030 wrote:And i still need to see any possitive point for people who are not part of 250 man fleet alliances. Thats because you don't want to. Pff, i can say the same thing about you not seeing the downsides of this. But that doesn't help anyone.
Difference between me and you is that I can adapt to changes.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
stoicfaux
5888
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:05:42 -
[767] - Quote
Zappity wrote:
Anyone with a useful fit? Baltec, the expanded launcher is the one with the really high CPU requirement. Just in case you are confused.
To paraphrase the US Marines, "Semper Gumby" (Always Flexible)
3,800 raw EHP
3,581 m/s
8.1 AU/s
[Prospect, Baltec's Cloaky Probe "Interceptor"]
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
5MN Microwarpdrive II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Expanded Probe Launcher II, Core Scanner Probe I
[empty high slot]
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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Canaris Roshaak
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
19
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Posted - 2015.06.12 14:07:22 -
[768] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:unimatrix0030 wrote:
Can't cloak, will get spotted on d-scan . Targets will be gone.
So fit for warp speed then.
Goes back to your point about people being too lazy to figure things out that aren't handed to them on a silver platter... |
Leeluvv
Maas Industries
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:26:19 -
[769] - Quote
Sister Bliss wrote:Bombing has been OP for such a long time, particularly with the ability to fleet warp wings...the outcome of which has been to dramatically shift and obsolete a large number of ship and fleet types.
So the bombing mechanic is a problem and the change is to fleet warping? WTF! Why not reduce the resistance of bombs so any 2nd bomb destroys the first, removing the ability to annihilate fleets with bombs, because that would be a bombing change to fix a bombing problem...
As for combat probes, it appears that the problem is they scan ships down too fast. So, make the probe results for a ship have an inherent error, so you can't guarantee landing on the target and need to use a ship at the location to confirm the accuracy or is a combat scanning fix to combat scanning too hard. Hell, make it so you only get a 100% result if you are on grid if combat probing ships is that big an issue.
Both of these are just random ideas I came up with 10 seconds ago, neither of which change the entire fleet warping game mechanics.
Dear CCP, understand and fix the cause, not the symptom. |
Frenjo Borkstar
Borkstar Laboratories
74
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:27:55 -
[770] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Are we really going to have change after change after change that do nothing but make the game a little bit more irritating to play?
This is exactly my point, we're only making the game more complicated and more irritating for everyone.
I've been involved in a few wormhole fleets with other corps, and this is going to be very bad.
I want MORE functionality, not less! Keep what we've got and add, don't change a mechanic that's going to ruin everybody's eve experience!
Truth is, this isn't really "feedback", because I don't think it's going to have much of an effect.
Dr. Frenjo Borkstar,
Project Lead for Arek'Jaalan's Project Salus.
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Honey Zam
Delusions of Adequacy
Get Off My Lawn
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:28:14 -
[771] - Quote
Not sure the change will kill anything out right, however I think it's going to burn FCs out. It will hurt large fleets too. I see the reasoning, but these big changes along with sov changes. I hope this all turns out how you want it to CCP. Plz don't kill the game. Players adapt but forcing too much adaptation could see more and more leave. I am worried. |
SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers
Gentlemen's.Club
153
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:31:37 -
[772] - Quote
How is warping together with different sizes going to work now?
Say there is a heterogenous fleet of cruisers and battleships or cruisers and frigates and everyone warps, the smaller stuff will now arrive first.
Are Battleships just going to be slower than cruisers all the time (cruisers/frigs)?
Are forces just going to arrive out of sync on grid every time, guaranteed?
I.e. is ccp going to compensate for taking group warps away in some way and replace it with a new system...
like a warp confirm everyone has to press, thus "paricipating" (idk)
...or are they just going to rip it out?
The UI is still bad.
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baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
16141
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:33:35 -
[773] - Quote
SpaceSaft wrote:How is warping together with different sizes going to work now?
Say there is a heterogenous fleet of cruisers and battleships or cruisers and frigates and everyone warps, the smaller stuff will now arrive first.
Are Battleships just going to be slower than cruisers all the time (cruisers/frigs)?
Are forces just going to arrive out of sync on grid every time, guaranteed and we have to deal with that?
I.e. is ccp going to compensate for taking group warps away in some way and replace it with a new system...
like a warp confirm everyone has to press, thus "paricipating" (idk)
...or are they just going to rip it out?
Warping the fleet to a player still means the fleet warps as fast as the slowest ship.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Leeluvv
Maas Industries
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:37:38 -
[774] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Warping the fleet to a player still means the fleet warps as fast as the slowest ship.
Not exactly. The fleet now warps as fast as the slowest ship + the time it takes for the ship you're going to warp to to get there and be in position to warp to. |
Soolarize
The Icarian Oath Utopian Society
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:38:04 -
[775] - Quote
My Nemesis cries.
And I feel quite lonely in WH now :(
CEO @ The Icarian Oath Utopian Society [I.OUS]
Site Officiel
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SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers
Gentlemen's.Club
153
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:38:11 -
[776] - Quote
Oh ok so it's literally only nerfing combat probing. Gotcha. Not sure why that's needed but I'm safer now.
The UI is still bad.
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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
160
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Posted - 2015.06.12 14:40:39 -
[777] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Difference between me and you is that I can adapt to changes.
Anyone can adapt to changes. I bet you can adapt to your hand being chopped off. Which does not put chopping off your hand on your to-do list. Probably. I'm not quite sure.
This change does not solve any problems. It does not hit bombing as a concept. It does not hit combat probing as a concept. It only hits the poor guy who will be strapped to a probing tengu and be sitting on a perch and watching anime while his fleetmates are fighting. It is not fun. I've been there (dedicated links+probing), and it was fun the first 2 weeks and then it was "oh I've probed down some offgrid links. Again. Now back to the book". |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
740
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:41:49 -
[778] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:afkalt wrote:
You're NOT scouting, that's the point. You're LITERALLY a beacon to no split the unit. Fun it aint.
Thats scouting. Providing warps on the enemy, getting snipe points, burning a safe all of it is scouting and yes it is fun. Every fleet used to have dedicated scouts that did these things.
Whatever happened to that?
Oh yeah, on grid probe alts.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
16146
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:43:52 -
[779] - Quote
Leeluvv wrote:
Not exactly. The fleet now warps as fast as the slowest ship + the time it takes for the ship you're going to warp to to get there and be in position to warp to.
So use a warp speed rigged cov-ops or interceptor.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Leeluvv
Maas Industries
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 14:46:50 -
[780] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:So use a warp speed rigged cov-ops or interceptor.
So you want your probing ship to potentially have no probing bonus and no probing rigs? |
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