These casual tears are the best. Fozzie can rate how good a patch is for the health of the game by how many bads come out of the wood work. The more bads crying, the better it is.

How does the fleet warp change impact/synergize/undermine the whole entosis capture thing? I keep feeling there's a subtle connection somehow. :/

Targeting a single ship is to line up the shot on the center of the fleet, we didn't get fleet warps to hostle grids so that lag wouldn't decloak everyone.

It doesnt. Cant warp around the grid and entosis at the same time.

The change restriction is too high and affects too many areas of life in Eve, from Kspace, to Null, to Wspace. I would propose a smaller iteration to address the concerns of how fleet warp mechanics now work.

• Permit Squad Commanders in a fleet to fleet-warp their squad to bookmarks and probed sigs.

Essentially you move the capabilities of the overall fleet and wing commander down to the squad level. You remove the big flying balls of hurt down to decisions made by the squad commander, permitting them to decide on tactical warp ins, locations and fleet warps for their squad.

You restrict fleet warps down to a 10 man team, with a individual per 10 man team making individual decisions for that 10 man team, to support the fleet efforts.

Fleet and Wing commanders would lose this ability to warp entire armada's to bookmarks and scanned sigs, but permit smaller skirmish groups/squads to warp their small group to them.

You move the leadership role of getting tacticals and flying to the leader of the squad, reducing the blob down to at most, 10 pilots, vs the 100+ null runs into. You now create a new leadership dynamic, and permit new people to have a stepping stone to becoming a Fleet Commander. Squad Leaders gain power, and have a relevant role verses just being a booster for their fleetmates.

I'd start with baby steps first, commonly known as "A Iteration" (Thanks for that CCP Rise).

Remove the ability for fleet commanders and wing commanders from warping entire groups to bookmarks and scan probes, and reduce it down to the squad level.

Try that first. See how it actually works.

How does the fleet warp change impact/synergize/undermine the whole entosis capture thing? I keep feeling there's a subtle connection somehow. :/

Disclaimer: Probably (most likely) don't know what I'm talking about.

Attackers put 250km range entosis on brick tank. Attackers (Entosis unit) are off plane in relation to standard warp lanes so the defenders have to get a scout on it first. Bubble is between entosis unit and enemy structure (i.e. the only place the enemy fleet can easily warp from.) Rest of attacking fleet at optimal range to blow up anything that gets bubbled. Standard decloaking items floating in space or smartbombs.

So unless the enemy has extreme sniper fits (200+ km range,) they probably won't have enough time to get close enough to the entosis unit to kill it before it cycles. However, if the defender is sniper fit, then the attacking fleet can warp to the defender and savage the under-tanked and under-gunned defenders with short range weapons.

Plus with lag/tidi/1hz server tick, a small defender probe scout (and pod) may not survive long enough to serve as a warp-to point.

Both friendly and enemy ships will want/need refitting abilities to swap between extreme sniping and normal combat fits. Heavy tank probe scouts may be "mandatory" to survive long enough to serve as a fleet warp-to point. Creating corp bookmarks in advance around structures will probably become mandatory for defense and offense (and possibly pre-positioned cloaked ships as well.)




Note to self: grid fu and drag bubbles.

Well, it does mean that if you can build something that moves fast enough and targets far enough, they're gonna have a ***** of a time warping their tacklers onto you...

Fortunately, anything filling that description has other viable counters.

I had a talos orbiting 200-250 at 6km/s and a barghest almost ended that escapade.

Have you considered making the game more fun for a change

ATTENTION, I'VE GOT IT, STOP THE PRESSES! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!

guys, guys, what if, guys, what if we add a stacking penalty to fleets? a fleet of 20 outputs it's full DPS, every additional fleet member outputs 50% of its original DPS. This penalty is cumulative on to the other additional member of the fleet until eventually someone is just outputting close to 0 DPS.

this probably won't solve anything, but the tears it will create will be well worth it.

Or.. as FT Diomedes noted earlier, make fleets smaller. 100-man fleets will make alliances that can field 1000 people have 10 FCs. Will force them to think of roles for each FC, commensurate with experience. If you wanna be specially mean, make it 50 :).

I liek my idea better

ATTENTION, I'VE GOT IT, STOP THE PRESSES! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!

guys, guys, what if, guys, what if we add a stacking penalty to fleets? a fleet of 20 outputs it's full DPS, every additional fleet member outputs 50% of its original DPS. This penalty is cumulative on to the other additional member of the fleet until eventually someone is just outputting close to 0 DPS.

this probably won't solve anything, but the tears it will create will be well worth it.

Don't forget the stacking penalized logistics component: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a5kn0/csm10_massacring_sacred_cows_reforming_logistics/

I have to admit, as a dedicated logi pilot, the power of logistics in the current combat model is just beyond broken, and desperately needs fixing.

That said, the problem with any single set 'solution' is the same one that's kept jump fatigue, sov changes, and pretty much every other 'solution' from really having any effect on the big orgs:

There is no problem in the history of mankind for which a solution has been found where that solution was not found quicker, or a better solution found, by the group that could devote more brainpower to the search. There has never been a solution in the history of mankind which cannot be better implemented by the group with more manpower to devote to the task.

Ever.

Strength in numbers isn't always about finding 5 other guys and beating some lone troublemaker to death with aluminum bats in the empty Blockbuster parking lot behind Burger King on Rte 111 at 4:30 in the morning in the dead of winter in 1983 because he owes you te-... er.....

I may have said too much.

The game is built around the fact you can always throw more ressources "ISk, ships, bigger/better ships, pilots,..." at a problem and you still have people not understanding every single nerf will be overpowered through with more number untill it become absolutely impossible even for the biggest organisation.

The very premise of the game is what is creating those situations. A game where you can stack the odds to the very limit to your advantage ended up with fights with odds so stacked people refused to undock. Go figure...

Yeah... I've been playing w/the idea of a high-speed ECM ship... someone locks you to stop your entosising, jam 'em.

Interceptor armed with sensor damp does the job easily enough.

You can get around most of those defense with number, You can only fit so many damps on an inty or ECM mods on an ECM ship after all. Oh look, the solution is again the same as to many problems...

Not to mention, you actually have to land anywhere near the inty's lock range. Good luck with that when the task involved is first a scan, and then a warp by the prober, and then a warp by you to the prober :)

Or you can use the most "OP" thing in this game and clutter the grid around his target with friendly ship. One of them will catch or kill or push it away. A loose ball of caracals with rapid light will force an inty off the field. Entosis inty will still be stupid but at least you can shove him off the field. Letting ships as manoeuvrable and fast as inties being able to run entosis link is where the mistakes was made imo.

Yeah..

And then imagine if a group decides to escalate with a bunch of orthruses, which are zipping out at 200km, using T2 links. Any inty or cruiser hull that gets anywhere near it will get evaporated. At least with 10 inties, you could hope that a few of them land scrams and webs. With these changes, they will always land 50-100km behind those guys. If entosis troll wasn't a thing before, now it will be.

It doesnt. Cant warp around the grid and entosis at the same time.

I believe that's correct at the level of game mechanics however I anticipate warping to the command/control points that spawn in the system during the new process will involve much probing, engagement and new tactics ....