EVE Search - New drones, modules and what not

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Forsch	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:12:00 - [421] Originally by: Nafri Yeah right, I always scan for the enemies weakest resistance If you can't figure out the weakest resist once you know the shiptype.. your loss. The Auctoritan Syndicate Defenders of the Empire - Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Trelennen	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:12:00 - [422] Edited by: Trelennen on 31/10/2005 18:15:19 Edited by: Trelennen on 31/10/2005 18:12:48 Originally by: Eyeshadow Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Eyeshadow Originally by: Nafri its just that gallante will finally also suffer when choosing damage, like matari and like caldari ES TEE EF EWE You have no idea what you are talking about. Caldari, only the kestrel/crow/cara/cerb are forced to choose dmg type to get high DPS. The rest of their ships have the same limitations of all other races, except the raven, which can choose whatever damage type it fancies and still gets full dmg. Probably the most versatile of ALL ships when choosing damage And then theres minmatar. All minmatar ships can chose their dmg type and get their bonuses as they are all ROF + DMG. Only race specific i can think of is breacher + stealth bomber, which arent exactly widely used, and when they are they get explosive dmg which is the best dmg in PVP imo. Please sort it out Nafri. Stop trying to make up false arguments to prove your points Ammunition changing is no drawback? 10% less damage? DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE. Do you ever think about anything else other than how much damage you can do? Id much rather do more dmg against my enemies weakest resist, than more damage against his strongest. And 10 seconds will be nothing in combat terms once dmg mods get nerfed Hum, well, with drones and missiles, you can target the specific vulnerability of your opponent, while still doing the same base damage (because they deal only one type of damage). On a minmatar ship, can I target the specific weakness? No. If the opponent is weak to EM, then I'll only have part of my ammo damage toward this vulnerability (less than half), not all like with missile and drones. Same for thermal. And if the opponent is resistant to thermal and em, all my other ammo which do kin/explo do less damage being long range. While missiles and drones (a bit different for drones as they have slightly different base damage, but it's not much) can be chosen to deal exclusively the damage the ennemy is weak too, without needing to lose damage using longer range. Choose a ship with only one weakness, the one you want. Now take a gallente drone ship, a caldari missile ship, and a matari ship. Which of these three will be able to match better the weakness of the ennemy? Not matari. Which one will loose the most base damage if targeting a specific weakness? Matari. So guys, stop with the "matari can choose damage types with no drawback". What we can do is to deal a bit of everything. We absolutely can't choose to deal a specific damage type to match our opponent's weakness, unlike with drones and missiles. PS: I find quite funny to see all Gallente now crying with these thermal drones damage bonus now, when not long ago they were telling Caldari to STFU when they were asking to get damage bonus to all missile types instead of only kinetic... Really, I can't see why Gallente should have bonus to all drone damage and Caldari be stuck with bonus to kinetic missiles only. It's either both get damage bonus to all, either both get their specific damage bonus, or both get a mix of those (like for Caldari a 2% damage to all missiles except 3% for kinetic instead of 5% kinetic and something in the same flavor for drones, and it's imho the most sensitive solution). edit: and of course other races missile/drone boats would have the same kind of bonii too ;) another edit: well, while i was reading the previous page and writing this post, it seems Nafri already said all this, and prolly better than me :) Quote: dont fly what you cant afford to lose, always have it insured, make sure you can replace it before you take it into 0.0 or any potentially kaboomish situations.
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:12:00 - [423] Edited by: Trelennen on 31/10/2005 18:15:19 Edited by: Trelennen on 31/10/2005 18:12:48 Originally by: Eyeshadow Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Eyeshadow Originally by: Nafri its just that gallante will finally also suffer when choosing damage, like matari and like caldari ES TEE EF EWE You have no idea what you are talking about. Caldari, only the kestrel/crow/cara/cerb are forced to choose dmg type to get high DPS. The rest of their ships have the same limitations of all other races, except the raven, which can choose whatever damage type it fancies and still gets full dmg. Probably the most versatile of ALL ships when choosing damage And then theres minmatar. All minmatar ships can chose their dmg type and get their bonuses as they are all ROF + DMG. Only race specific i can think of is breacher + stealth bomber, which arent exactly widely used, and when they are they get explosive dmg which is the best dmg in PVP imo. Please sort it out Nafri. Stop trying to make up false arguments to prove your points Ammunition changing is no drawback? 10% less damage? DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE. Do you ever think about anything else other than how much damage you can do? Id much rather do more dmg against my enemies weakest resist, than more damage against his strongest. And 10 seconds will be nothing in combat terms once dmg mods get nerfed Hum, well, with drones and missiles, you can target the specific vulnerability of your opponent, while still doing the same base damage (because they deal only one type of damage). On a minmatar ship, can I target the specific weakness? No. If the opponent is weak to EM, then I'll only have part of my ammo damage toward this vulnerability (less than half), not all like with missile and drones. Same for thermal. And if the opponent is resistant to thermal and em, all my other ammo which do kin/explo do less damage being long range. While missiles and drones (a bit different for drones as they have slightly different base damage, but it's not much) can be chosen to deal exclusively the damage the ennemy is weak too, without needing to lose damage using longer range. Choose a ship with only one weakness, the one you want. Now take a gallente drone ship, a caldari missile ship, and a matari ship. Which of these three will be able to match better the weakness of the ennemy? Not matari. Which one will loose the most base damage if targeting a specific weakness? Matari. So guys, stop with the "matari can choose damage types with no drawback". What we can do is to deal a bit of everything. We absolutely can't choose to deal a specific damage type to match our opponent's weakness, unlike with drones and missiles. PS: I find quite funny to see all Gallente now crying with these thermal drones damage bonus now, when not long ago they were telling Caldari to STFU when they were asking to get damage bonus to all missile types instead of only kinetic... Really, I can't see why Gallente should have bonus to all drone damage and Caldari be stuck with bonus to kinetic missiles only. It's either both get damage bonus to all, either both get their specific damage bonus, or both get a mix of those (like for Caldari a 2% damage to all missiles except 3% for kinetic instead of 5% kinetic and something in the same flavor for drones, and it's imho the most sensitive solution). edit: and of course other races missile/drone boats would have the same kind of bonii too ;) another edit: well, while i was reading the previous page and writing this post, it seems Nafri already said all this, and prolly better than me :)
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:12:00 - [424] Originally by: Nafri Yeah right, I always scan for the enemies weakest resistance If you can't figure out the weakest resist once you know the shiptype.. your loss. Forsch Defender of the empire What have you done CCP..
Aleis	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:13:00 - [425] What about Restricting certain drone types to certain ships. Not damage wise but, if say ships would have a stat that reads, For Example for blackbird: Combat, and EWAR drones Logistics: Combat and Repair drones Mining barge: Combat, mining, sentry and the like, so that you could use drones as a way of further specializing ships roles, Just an idea
Aleis Minmatar Playboy Enterprises	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:13:00 - [426] What about Restricting certain drone types to certain ships. Not damage wise but, if say ships would have a stat that reads, For Example for blackbird: Combat, and EWAR drones Logistics: Combat and Repair drones Mining barge: Combat, mining, sentry and the like, so that you could use drones as a way of further specializing ships roles, Just an idea Gang Assist Guide
Helmut 314	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:15:00 - [427] We are really getting 28 new drone types ? 28 ?! I imagine these are tech 1 too ? With all that complexity, reducing the size of dronebays makes no sense. With 12+12 different combat drones already in existence and 28 new drones that means 52 drone types to choose from. With no way to load drones in space except having a mate send out drones and warp off so you can scoop them, a large dronebay is needed to maintain any kind of tactical flexibility. ___________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Tom H	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:15:00 - [428] Seeing as Domi/Ishtars need their drones for there main damage output how will they really see any benefit of the new drones when limited to only 5? If its only as a support role thats kinda limiting...
Tom H Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:15:00 - [429] Seeing as Domi/Ishtars need their drones for there main damage output how will they really see any benefit of the new drones when limited to only 5? If its only as a support role thats kinda limiting...
Helmut 314 Amarr J.H.E.N.R Pure.	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:15:00 - [430] We are really getting 28 new drone types ? 28 ?! I imagine these are tech 1 too ? With all that complexity, reducing the size of dronebays makes no sense. With 12+12 different combat drones already in existence and 28 new drones that means 52 drone types to choose from. With no way to load drones in space except having a mate send out drones and warp off so you can scoop them, a large dronebay is needed to maintain any kind of tactical flexibility. ________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
NTRabbit	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:16:00 - [431] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: Nafri Yeah right, I always scan for the enemies weakest resistance If you can't figure out the weakest resist once you know the shiptype.. your loss. So you can accurately determine exactly how many and what type of hardeners every ship you come across is using, without scanning? Are you seriously trying to tell us that? --------
NTRabbit Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:16:00 - [432] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: Nafri Yeah right, I always scan for the enemies weakest resistance If you can't figure out the weakest resist once you know the shiptype.. your loss. So you can accurately determine exactly how many and what type of hardeners every ship you come across is using, without scanning? Are you seriously trying to tell us that? ------
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:21:00 - [433] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 31/10/2005 18:22:02 I'm feeling severly nerfed here. I don't train Drones 5, Interfacing 5 and Amarr Cruiser 5 to see 3 bloody drones! I train that to see the other guy go "OH **, 15 DRONES! GOD HELP ME." And frankly i dont give a sod they do similar damage - I dont get a turned on from 3 drones kthx. Size does matter.** Oh, and on a more serious note. Smartbombs are going to need some help now. 1) Make them useable in empire 2) Make them more cap efficient 3) Make them do more damage. 3) Is because it will take a smartbomb longer to kill a drone with more HP then more drones with lower HP. And it's not like smartbombs were all that usefull in the first place.
Forsch	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:21:00 - [434] Originally by: NTRabbit So you can accurately determine exactly how many and what type of hardeners every ship you come across is using, without scanning? Are you seriously trying to tell us that? Of course not. But you can still figure out what the best damage would be against that ship. Let's say a wolf. 92.5% em, 10% explosive, 25% kinetic, 67.5% thermal. As you can clearly see, em and thermal are not the way to go. Both explosive and kinetic will be a good choice, even with hardeners. Not all ships are as obvious as this but you can still choose a dmg type that has good chances to do lots of dmg. The Auctoritan Syndicate Defenders of the Empire - Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:21:00 - [435] Edited by: Grimpak on 31/10/2005 18:22:03 Originally by: NTRabbit Originally by: Grimpak ok I'll spam this again: and eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverybody forgot about mining drones. Well with the 20% bonus to mining yield from Drone Interfacing, it means that your 5 mining drones are going to have the same mining ability as roughly 12-15 do now i think. it does? hmm.. didn't read that... maybe I oversighted? EDIT: yes I didn't read that. ------------------- Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:21:00 - [436] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 31/10/2005 18:22:02 I'm feeling severly nerfed here. I don't train Drones 5, Interfacing 5 and Amarr Cruiser 5 to see 3 bloody drones! I train that to see the other guy go "OH **, 15 DRONES! GOD HELP ME." And frankly i dont give a sod they do similar damage - I dont get a turned on from 3 drones kthx. Size does matter.** Oh, and on a more serious note. Smartbombs are going to need some help now. 1) Make them useable in empire 2) Make them more cap efficient 3) Make them do more damage. 3) Is because it will take a smartbomb longer to kill a drone with more HP then more drones with lower HP. And it's not like smartbombs were all that usefull in the first place.
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:21:00 - [437] Originally by: NTRabbit So you can accurately determine exactly how many and what type of hardeners every ship you come across is using, without scanning? Are you seriously trying to tell us that? Of course not. But you can still figure out what the best damage would be against that ship. Let's say a wolf. 92.5% em, 10% explosive, 25% kinetic, 67.5% thermal. As you can clearly see, em and thermal are not the way to go. Both explosive and kinetic will be a good choice, even with hardeners. Not all ships are as obvious as this but you can still choose a dmg type that has good chances to do lots of dmg. Forsch Defender of the empire What have you done CCP..
Grimpak Gallente Twisted Attitude Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:21:00 - [438] Edited by: Grimpak on 31/10/2005 18:22:03 Originally by: NTRabbit Originally by: Grimpak ok I'll spam this again: and eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverybody forgot about mining drones. Well with the 20% bonus to mining yield from Drone Interfacing, it means that your 5 mining drones are going to have the same mining ability as roughly 12-15 do now i think. it does? hmm.. didn't read that... maybe I oversighted? EDIT: yes I didn't read that. ------- Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
Wildmeister	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:25:00 - [439] As with other drone specialists, I don't like the look of this too much. I acknowledge the point of Nafri et al. that the Dominix and Ishtar can deal out 'too' much damage in very small skirmish situations (I think in larger engagements unless it's very close range, their effect is nullified by drone speed). Thus I'll acknowledge that drones need rejigging. But I think these changes are horrendously ugly...... all drones bays in half, everyone has 5 drones, 20%!! damage bonus per level - it looks like blunt and thoughtless hacks at the problem. I'd prefer to see the Ishtar and Dominix (etc) retain their drone control bonus, thus allowing 10 drones in space as opposed to max 5 for all others. Drone interfacing would give a 7.5% bonus per level to drone damage per level. Reduction of the drone bays in the Tempest/Scorpion/Raven/Apoc would only be to 100m¦, allowing them to use 4 drones. This whole debacle of limiting certain ships to 1 damage type (I do sympathise with the Caldari here) is crazy. Next we'll be hearing that turret ammo is being limited to racial preference only.
Wildmeister	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:25:00 - [440] Edited by: Wildmeister on 31/10/2005 18:32:48 As with other drone specialists, I don't like the look of this too much. I acknowledge the point of Nafri et al. that the Dominix and Ishtar can deal out 'too' much damage in very small skirmish situations (I think in larger engagements unless it's very close range, their effect is nullified by drone speed). Thus I'll acknowledge that drones need rejigging. But I think these changes are horrendously ugly...... all drones bays in half, everyone has 5 drones, 20%!! damage bonus per level - it looks like blunt and thoughtless hacks at the problem. I'd prefer to see the Ishtar and Dominix (etc) retain their drone control bonus, thus allowing 10 drones in space as opposed to max 5 for all others. Edit drone bays as appropriate. Drone interfacing would give a 7.5% bonus per level to drone damage per level. Reduction of the drone bays in the Tempest/Scorpion/Raven/Apoc would only be to 100m¦, allowing them to use 4 drones. This whole debacle of limiting certain ships to 1 damage type (I do sympathise with the Caldari here) is crazy. Next we'll be hearing that turret ammo is being limited to racial preference only.
NTRabbit	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:27:00 - [441] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: NTRabbit So you can accurately determine exactly how many and what type of hardeners every ship you come across is using, without scanning? Are you seriously trying to tell us that? Of course not. But you can still figure out what the best damage would be against that ship. Let's say a wolf. 92.5% em, 10% explosive, 25% kinetic, 67.5% thermal. As you can clearly see, em and thermal are not the way to go. Both explosive and kinetic will be a good choice, even with hardeners. Not all ships are as obvious as this but you can still choose a dmg type that has good chances to do lots of dmg. Picking a good rough damage type to do is one thing, but the crux of your argument was being able to precisely pick which damage output is best before an engagement started so that you could load guns accordingly. You have just proven yourself wrong. --------
NTRabbit Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:27:00 - [442] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: NTRabbit So you can accurately determine exactly how many and what type of hardeners every ship you come across is using, without scanning? Are you seriously trying to tell us that? Of course not. But you can still figure out what the best damage would be against that ship. Let's say a wolf. 92.5% em, 10% explosive, 25% kinetic, 67.5% thermal. As you can clearly see, em and thermal are not the way to go. Both explosive and kinetic will be a good choice, even with hardeners. Not all ships are as obvious as this but you can still choose a dmg type that has good chances to do lots of dmg. Picking a good rough damage type to do is one thing, but the crux of your argument was being able to precisely pick which damage output is best before an engagement started so that you could load guns accordingly. You have just proven yourself wrong. ------
Forsch	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:34:00 - [443] Originally by: NTRabbit Picking a good rough damage type to do is one thing, but the crux of your argument was being able to precisely pick which damage output is best before an engagement started so that you could load guns accordingly. You have just proven yourself wrong. No, who cares if it's precisely the best dmg type. As long as you can avoid the high resist types it will only help. The Auctoritan Syndicate Defenders of the Empire - Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:34:00 - [444] Originally by: NTRabbit Picking a good rough damage type to do is one thing, but the crux of your argument was being able to precisely pick which damage output is best before an engagement started so that you could load guns accordingly. You have just proven yourself wrong. No, who cares if it's precisely the best dmg type. As long as you can avoid the high resist types it will only help. Forsch Defender of the empire What have you done CCP..
NTRabbit	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:37:00 - [445] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: NTRabbit Picking a good rough damage type to do is one thing, but the crux of your argument was being able to precisely pick which damage output is best before an engagement started so that you could load guns accordingly. You have just proven yourself wrong. No, who cares if it's precisely the best dmg type. As long as you can avoid the high resist types it will only help. But which ones are the high resist types? Barring the absolute highest resist on any of the t2 vessels, i can viably make any one of the other 3 damage types the worst resist on my ship. Its even easier to do with t1 ships. --------
NTRabbit Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:37:00 - [446] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: NTRabbit Picking a good rough damage type to do is one thing, but the crux of your argument was being able to precisely pick which damage output is best before an engagement started so that you could load guns accordingly. You have just proven yourself wrong. No, who cares if it's precisely the best dmg type. As long as you can avoid the high resist types it will only help. But which ones are the high resist types? Barring the absolute highest resist on any of the t2 vessels, i can viably make any one of the other 3 damage types the worst resist on my ship. Its even easier to do with t1 ships. ------
Hinik	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:40:00 - [447] One damage type blah blah blah yeah that sucks big time. halving the drone bay sucks even more... as my main ship atm is my ishtar, if I have to stick thermal drones in it... as well as only have 5 of them... AS WELL as not having any kind of backup or choice about different deployment, that sucks even more. EW drones... yeah about that, great idea... if I had 15 drones still... as "one drone will not equal one module" so... let me get this straight... I'll have to have 2 or 3 drones to scramble a target as effectively as I would with my ship-mounted scrambler... and only have 2 damage dealing drones left to play with? for any drone ship... these changes as they are suck bigtime, for anyone else wooohooo, jackpot. my blasterthron with 5 EW drones in them would rock. pity I prefer the ishtar. One more thing, you may want to consider giving the ishtar the similar bonuses as damage output on drones to the EW ones, there's absolutely no point in an ishtar cutting off it's only form of damage to fit a half powered scrambler on. New sig soon! :)
Hinik Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:40:00 - [448] One damage type blah blah blah yeah that sucks big time. halving the drone bay sucks even more... as my main ship atm is my ishtar, if I have to stick thermal drones in it... as well as only have 5 of them... AS WELL as not having any kind of backup or choice about different deployment, that sucks even more. EW drones... yeah about that, great idea... if I had 15 drones still... as "one drone will not equal one module" so... let me get this straight... I'll have to have 2 or 3 drones to scramble a target as effectively as I would with my ship-mounted scrambler... and only have 2 damage dealing drones left to play with? for any drone ship... these changes as they are suck bigtime, for anyone else wooohooo, jackpot. my blasterthron with 5 EW drones in them would rock. pity I prefer the ishtar. One more thing, you may want to consider giving the ishtar the similar bonuses as damage output on drones to the EW ones, there's absolutely no point in an ishtar cutting off it's only form of damage to fit a half powered scrambler on.
Paladineguru	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:43:00 - [449] WHen oh god when will you people at ccp quit nerfing things in the name of "content". Drones are fine the way they are. if you really want to free up database rescources why dont you eliminate gate rats and fix a few things that are actually wrong or unbalanced like tempest that do 2-3k dmg in one salvo, tech 2 insurance , or gasp new ships with unique roles instead of useless filler ships cough battlecruisers. im tired of finding every 6 months that thanks to the dolts at ccp half the skills ive trained are now pointless
Paladineguru Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2005.10.31 18:43:00 - [450] WHen oh god when will you people at ccp quit nerfing things in the name of "content". Drones are fine the way they are. if you really want to free up database rescources why dont you eliminate gate rats and fix a few things that are actually wrong or unbalanced like tempest that do 2-3k dmg in one salvo, tech 2 insurance , or gasp new ships with unique roles instead of useless filler ships cough battlecruisers. im tired of finding every 6 months that thanks to the dolts at ccp half the skills ive trained are now pointless

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