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| Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 42 post(s) |
 DarK STK Scientific    |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:52:00 -
[61] Edited by: DarK on 31/10/2005 14:52:44 doh, should read devblog. |
 Illana Ellest |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:53:00 -
[62] One ship that seems to have ben missed out here is the Ishkur, I can't see any mention of it. Will its Drone bay size bonus stay teh same even if it can only use 5 drones at once? or will it be given a static drone bay and a drone thermal bonus like the dominix and Ishtar? On the whole, some interesting things to think about, although this could spell disaster for domi/ishtar pilots if not done properly. |
 Kotori |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:53:00 -
[63] so what happens wen we get these uber great drone carrying carriers.... with only 5 xl fighter drones ~_~. Was looking forward to the swarms of drones flying around me... Cant you do something to optimize the DB usage for them, rather than limiting the amount that we can use. |
 Illana Ellest Caldari |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:53:00 -
[64] One ship that seems to have ben missed out here is the Ishkur, I can't see any mention of it. Will its Drone bay size bonus stay teh same even if it can only use 5 drones at once? or will it be given a static drone bay and a drone thermal bonus like the dominix and Ishtar? On the whole, some interesting things to think about, although this could spell disaster for domi/ishtar pilots if not done properly. |
 Kotori Gallente Sacred Templars DeStInY. |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:53:00 -
[65] so what happens wen we get these uber great drone carrying carriers.... with only 5 xl fighter drones ~_~. Was looking forward to the swarms of drones flying around me... Cant you do something to optimize the DB usage for them, rather than limiting the amount that we can use. .......... |
 Amataras |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:57:00 -
[66] will sentry drones still function even if the ship that drops them warps away? -------------- The Eve Diplomacy Table |
 Cyperinn |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:57:00 -
[67] Heh so many folks havent read the blog properly already ^^ It does look well throught through for those complaining about the ewar as tuxford just said its only equal to about 1 module if you have a full set of large ones. I think the DOT on the stationary towers is a bit low or are these just ideas and there will be s,m,l and possibly xl (carrier?) versions of them? |
 Cyperinn eXceed Inc. INVICTUS. |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:57:00 -
[68] Heh so many folks havent read the blog properly already ^^ It does look well throught through for those complaining about the ewar as tuxford just said its only equal to about 1 module if you have a full set of large ones. I think the DOT on the stationary towers is a bit low or are these just ideas and there will be s,m,l and possibly xl (carrier?) versions of them? |
 Amataras Minmatar Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:57:00 -
[69] will sentry drones still function even if the ship that drops them warps away? -------- |
Tuxford  |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:59:00 -
[70]
Oh right forgot about the Ishtar. Well the drone bay is reduced to 15m^3. It's bonus is still 5m^3 per level. _______________ |
 Tuxford |
Posted - 2005.10.31 14:59:00 -
[71]
Oh right forgot about the Ishtar. Well the drone bay is reduced to 15m^3. It's bonus is still 5m^3 per level. _______________ |
 Meeko Gloom |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:01:00 -
[72] With the Web jammer drones .3 wtf makes something that = 1 i dont want to .9 jam someone. with the cap drones come back to u like mining drones? YES the Moros Will be the BE ALL END ALL i will train those skills asap ________________________________________________ Pls Dont Flame Me Cuz I DONT Give A **** Demons of Razgis |
 Meeko Gloom Gallente Gallente Republic |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:01:00 -
[73] With the Web jammer drones .3 wtf makes something that = 1 i dont want to .9 jam someone. with the cap drones come back to u like mining drones? YES the Moros Will be the BE ALL END ALL i will train those skills asap -------------------------- 100% PvPer Looking for a corp Guns dont Kill People Drones Do |
Heavenly Explorer |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:02:00 -
[74] You forgot Smartbombing drones, silly!!!But seriously: Looks interesting, alot of people will be happy yet even more unhappy I suspect.  Webber drones = win! |
 Heavenly Explorer |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:02:00 -
[75]You forgot Smartbombing drones, silly!!! But seriously: Looks interesting, alot of people will be happy yet even more unhappy I suspect. Webber drones = win! |
 Khaldorn Murino |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:04:00 -
[76] Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 31/10/2005 15:05:39 Actually Tux mate, i think you either wrote the dev blog wrong or put the numbers in this thread wrong cos the sentry drone damage isnt what it says in the blog either :) Either that or i need glasses. Oh, and dude, are the speed reductions etc in the blog percentages? - Just a simple warrior. |
 Khaldorn Murino Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:04:00 -
[77] Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 31/10/2005 15:05:39 Actually Tux mate, i think you either wrote the dev blog wrong or put the numbers in this thread wrong cos the sentry drone damage isnt what it says in the blog either :) Either that or i need glasses. Oh, and dude, are the speed reductions etc in the blog percentages? - Rise. |
 Jin Entres |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:05:00 -
[78] Wow, quite the changes aren't they? I'm only worried about one thing - damage type. Before you could choose the type of damage you carried with drones, now with bonuses only to one type (and thermal of all which is the most tanked type) the versatility of drones effectively drops. Otherwise, these changes look mostly good, although a lot of testing will need to be had, of course  |
 Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:05:00 -
[79] Wow, quite the changes aren't they? I'm only worried about one thing - damage type. Before you could choose the type of damage you carried with drones, now with bonuses only to one type (and thermal of all which is the most tanked type) the versatility of drones effectively drops. Otherwise, these changes look mostly good, although a lot of testing will need to be had, of course |
Farjung |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:06:00 -
[80]
I did, after my first post but before my second ;p
I assume this means 5 drones in space rather than 5 drones in the drone bay at all yeah? Otherwise the 750/2 = 375 m^3 new dronebay would be pretty empty. So, you can keep 15 different heavy drones in a dominix and pick and mix 5 of them as you want them, yeah? Or are you actually cutting the dominix's dronebay down to 125 m^3?
Well, in the blog you just say that one drone won't be as effective as one module, not that 5 won't be as effective. Without knowing what the stacking penalty is like it's hard to judge how many drones are equivalent to one module. Take large tracking disruptor drones: according to the combat revisited blog by Oveur where he mentions the new stacking penalty, he says "the Stacking now gives less penalty for the first 2 modules on top of the first, the third is almost the same". So, if this is right and for four modules you get about the same effect under the current stacking penalty as you will under the new one: With the current stacking penalty, four tracking disrupting things that do multiply tracking/optimal by 0.75 would have a net effect of ((0.75^4)^(4^-0.25)) = 0.443 which is pretty much equivalent to one tracking disruptor II with good turret destabilization. Which will really hurt a turret bs, esp if the domi example I was using employs an afterburner as well. So, I don't think my initial scenario was that unrealistic - again, assuming that you're allowed to hold spare drones and can't just carry 5 drones full stop. |
 James Lyrus |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:06:00 -
[81] I rather like it. EW drones are only going to be limited to 5, and will suffer stacking penalties, so I don't see a huge problem. 1 large jamming drone vs. a strength 20 sensor has a jamming chance of 1.5 / 20 = 7.5% chance of success. 5 of 'em = 32% chance of jamming, which is about on a par with a single strength 6 jammer. Looks reasonable to me. Webbers, I don't have the stacking formula to hand, but even so... Only consideration is with drone bay sizes - some things get differing sized drone bays, but without an explict 'drone bonus'. Not that I'll mind if I don't have to worry about what mix of heavy/medium/small drones I'll use on my scorpion, because I can only use 5 anyway. |
 Nafri |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:06:00 -
[82] Well some first statistics: Typhoon (matari drone ship): Old Dronebay: 350 m¦ New Dronebay: 175 m¦ Numbers of drone fitable: 7 Large Drones 17 Medium Drones 35 Small Drones Dominix: Old Dronebay: 750 m¦ New Dronebay: 375 m¦ 15 Large Drones 37 Medium Drones 75 Light Drones Megathron/Geddon: Old Dronebay: 250 m¦ New Dronebay: 125 m¦ 5 Large Drones 12 Medium Drones 25 Small Drones Tempest/Scorpion/Raven/Apoc: Old Dronebay: 150 m¦ New Dronebay: 75 m¦ 3 Large Drones 7 Medium Drones 15 Small Drones New max. Drones in space are now 5 Typhoon: 2 Spare Dominix: 10 Spare Thron/Geddon: 0 Spare Others: -2 Spare [Damage of Ogre II] 22 * 1.92 = 42.24 // ROF = 2 seconds --> DPS: 21.12 Including Skills: 21.12 * 1.25 * 2 * 1.1 = 58.08 DPS per drone How would you fit Dominix now? Well, basicly I would suggest 3 sets of drones now: 1x Damage, 1x EW and 1x Repair Damage: 5x Ogre II, doing 58.08 * 5 = 209.4 DPS EW: 5 * 30 Cap / 6 s = 25 Cap/s (Without skills, it will be probably 5 * 1.1 * 30 / 6 seconds = 27.5 Cap/s) Repair: 5 * 120 Armor / 10 seconds = 60 Armor/s, more likly (5 * 120 / 10 * 0.9 = 66.66 Armor/s) Since I dont know about new stacking, Ill stick with nosferatu So, that are raw numbers alone from drones for Dominix: Either 290 DPS or 25Cap/s or 60 Armor/s. Sounds ok, but you should consider the dominix has also 6/5/7 slots to help its roles... Sorry but especially tanking sounds totally overpowered since Drones sucks no Cap, 60 Armor/s, thats an free Large Armor Repair II And since you basicly get things you normally have to do with mids (webbing/EW) best boosted are close range shield tankers (one slot for tanking) or generally all ships with few midslots (you can now do everything a midslot ship can do too). Ohh well, and Dominix/Ishtar 4tw of course... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Put your panties on your head! |
 James Lyrus Lyrus Associates |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:06:00 -
[83] I rather like it. EW drones are only going to be limited to 5, and will suffer stacking penalties, so I don't see a huge problem. 1 large jamming drone vs. a strength 20 sensor has a jamming chance of 1.5 / 20 = 7.5% chance of success. 5 of 'em = 32% chance of jamming, which is about on a par with a single strength 6 jammer. Looks reasonable to me. Webbers, I don't have the stacking formula to hand, but even so... Only consideration is with drone bay sizes - some things get differing sized drone bays, but without an explict 'drone bonus'. Not that I'll mind if I don't have to worry about what mix of heavy/medium/small drones I'll use on my scorpion, because I can only use 5 anyway. |
 Nafri Caldari TunDraGon |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:06:00 -
[84] Edited by: Nafri on 31/10/2005 15:19:54 Well some first statistics: Typhoon (matari drone ship): Old Dronebay: 350 m¦ New Dronebay: 175 m¦ Numbers of drone fitable: 7 Large Drones 17 Medium Drones 35 Small Drones Dominix: Old Dronebay: 750 m¦ New Dronebay: 375 m¦ 15 Large Drones 37 Medium Drones 75 Light Drones Megathron/Geddon: Old Dronebay: 250 m¦ New Dronebay: 125 m¦ 5 Large Drones 12 Medium Drones 25 Small Drones Tempest/Scorpion/Raven/Apoc: Old Dronebay: 150 m¦ New Dronebay: 75 m¦ 3 Large Drones 7 Medium Drones 15 Small Drones New max. Drones in space are now 5 Typhoon: 2 Spare Dominix: 10 Spare Thron/Geddon: 0 Spare Others: -2 Spare [Damage of Ogre II] 22 * 1.92 = 42.24 // ROF = 2 seconds --> DPS: 21.12 Including Skills: 21.12 * 1.25 * 2 * 1.1 = 58.08 DPS per drone How would you fit Dominix now? Well, basicly I would suggest 3 sets of drones now: 1x Damage, 1x EW and 1x Repair Damage: 5x Ogre II, doing 58.08 * 5 * 1.5 = 314.1 DPS EW: 5 * 30 Cap / 6 s = 25 Cap/s (Without skills, it will be probably 5 * 1.1 * 30 / 6 seconds = 27.5 Cap/s) Repair: 5 * 120 Armor / 10 seconds = 60 Armor/s, more likly (5 * 120 / 10 * 0.9 = 66.66 Armor/s) Since I dont know about new stacking, Ill stick with nosferatu So, that are raw numbers alone from drones for Dominix: Either 314.1 DPS or 25Cap/s or 60 Armor/s. Sounds ok, but you should consider the dominix has also 6/5/7 slots to help its roles... Sorry but especially tanking sounds totally overpowered since Drones sucks no Cap, 60 Armor/s, thats an free Large Armor Repair II And since you basicly get things you normally have to do with mids (webbing/EW) best boosted are close range shield tankers (one slot for tanking) or generally all ships with few midslots (you can now do everything a midslot ship can do too). Ohh well, and Dominix/Ishtar 4tw of course... From Dusk till Dawn |
 Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:06:00 -
[85]
I did, after my first post but before my second ;p
I assume this means 5 drones in space rather than 5 drones in the drone bay at all yeah? Otherwise the 750/2 = 375 m^3 new dronebay would be pretty empty. So, you can keep 15 different heavy drones in a dominix and pick and mix 5 of them as you want them, yeah? Or are you actually cutting the dominix's dronebay down to 125 m^3?
Well, in the blog you just say that one drone won't be as effective as one module, not that 5 won't be as effective. Without knowing what the stacking penalty is like it's hard to judge how many drones are equivalent to one module. Take large tracking disruptor drones: according to the combat revisited blog by Oveur where he mentions the new stacking penalty, he says "the Stacking now gives less penalty for the first 2 modules on top of the first, the third is almost the same". So, if this is right and for four modules you get about the same effect under the current stacking penalty as you will under the new one: With the current stacking penalty, four tracking disrupting things that do multiply tracking/optimal by 0.75 would have a net effect of ((0.75^4)^(4^-0.25)) = 0.443 which is pretty much equivalent to one tracking disruptor II with good turret destabilization. Which will really hurt a turret bs, esp if the domi example I was using employs an afterburner as well. So, I don't think my initial scenario was that unrealistic - again, assuming that you're allowed to hold spare drones and can't just carry 5 drones full stop. Wave of Mutilation 2 |
DarK |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:08:00 -
[86]
Hi, welcome to missile land. |
 Farjung |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:08:00 -
[87]
Dominix can hold 30 heavy drones right now. So, I used that bit of information from the blog to come to the conclusion that it'll be able to hold 15 after the changes, but only be able to use 5 at a time. |
 Khaldorn Murino |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:08:00 -
[88] Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 31/10/2005 15:07:50 * Edit - bad idea * - Just a simple warrior. |
 Palicate |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:08:00 -
[89] Edited by: Palicate on 31/10/2005 15:09:16 ok, first off I can't read the devblog thing, so im going by what others have said about it. The problem is that giving drones abilities like webbing is going to make some drones heavily overpowered and some heavily underused. the NOS, and web drones probably being the big ones. If you look at it, the big nos drone is about the equivalent of a med nos. and the webbers @40% only need 3 to effectively tag down anything. the problem is it totally unbalances EVERYTHING. these drones require no cap and no grid or cpu or slots. meaning that all of a sudden i can throw 3 web and 2 nos drones into my raven and i have more capabilities than i did before. I can effectively have my drones tag down ANYTHING short of a BS. basically once these come around everyone gets a free tackler is what is going to happen. EVEN WITH only five. i mean your giving us EWAR drones, but ewar ships always needed range to be TRUELY effective, so none of these are worth a second look for ewar ships. The thing is, ships abilities are limited by their high/med/low slots which are usually based upon class and specific ship and bonuses. why the hell would anyone want a scorpion in fleet now? just put 3 ships worth of heavy ECM drones together and its over. I'm going to be honest, i like armor repairing drones, and if sheild transporting drones work like sheild boosters i could learn to like them too. Those and sentry drones are the only reasonable ones. If you give drones EWAR, eve pvp is over, in a snap. the only REASONABLE ewar drone skill i would like is like a 25% warp jam strength or something of that sort. Drones in this game cannot be combat controllers as your about to make them, they need to be combat supportive. I use Heavy atack drones to fight the frigates that swarm me in PVE, in PVP they serve as a "mild" defense against frigs, inty's, and AF's You implement this and I can simply send 5 big nos drones against a HAC and i win. how far is that? especially when most HAC's don't even have drone bays. |
Khaldorn Murino Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.10.31 15:08:00 -
[90] Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 31/10/2005 15:07:50 * Edit - bad idea * - Rise. |
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