EVE Search - New drones, modules and what not

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Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.11.04 03:42:00 - [2071] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Malken Originally by: Jim Raynor Luckily heavy missiles happen to pwn heavy drones quite nicely. Which sadly is only one of the few things they are good against. perhaps but compare the dmg a battleships drones do to a interceptor vs the dmg a cerberus do to a interceptor and its a giggle yes for some reason the sig penalty on mwd is being offset by the increased velocity WAY too much.. sorry but .3 damage is pretty stupid, there is like, almost no way for a cerberus to beat an inty without assaults and double web or something.. and if he is good and stays out of web range, well, u lose, or have to run, or whatever Uh-huh. 3 volleys to kill an interceptor is bad? Smoke. Pipe. Wtf. if the missile lands for .3 damage, 3 volleys does 4.5 damage, before resists~ interceptors have more than 1 shield 1 armor and 1 structure last time i checked sir ------ If Captain James T. Kirk and Mr. Spock embracing one another, in a bath tube, nude, in space, is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Jim Raynor Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.11.04 03:42:00 - [2072] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Malken Originally by: Jim Raynor Luckily heavy missiles happen to pwn heavy drones quite nicely. Which sadly is only one of the few things they are good against. perhaps but compare the dmg a battleships drones do to a interceptor vs the dmg a cerberus do to a interceptor and its a giggle yes for some reason the sig penalty on mwd is being offset by the increased velocity WAY too much.. sorry but .3 damage is pretty stupid, there is like, almost no way for a cerberus to beat an inty without assaults and double web or something.. and if he is good and stays out of web range, well, u lose, or have to run, or whatever Uh-huh. 3 volleys to kill an interceptor is bad? Smoke. Pipe. Wtf. if the missile lands for .3 damage, 3 volleys does 4.5 damage, before resists~ interceptors have more than 1 shield 1 armor and 1 structure last time i checked sir ------ I'll make a sig later.
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.04 03:46:00 - [2073] Originally by: Paradox Eve in addition to loosing no dmg from your drones ect Incorrect. Quote: , you are gaining a great deal of versatility by having drones in your bay for any possible situation you encounter. Any situation? You seem to be suggesting we'll be able to fit a full set of 5 drones of all the different types, while ignoring the fact that we need a full set of 15 damage drones in order to keep our drones HPs the same (and lock times still less thus more frail, and travel times still longer thus less effective). If we need all 15 to be standard drones just to be ALMOST where we are now, then where are we supposed to get room for another 25 drones to be able to have drones for "any possible situation"? Also, I don't think it's as usefull as you make it out to be. The drones you want to use will mostly depend on your ship setup, and this is determined before you undock. Quote: This very much offsets the relatively small dmg loss over another pilot when you use one of the new drones as opposed to a traditional drone. 50% is small?!? What in the hell do you consider large then?? Quote: Verstility: learn it and respect it, and then you can come back and post again. Actually, (though I know what versatility means, and how to spell it) I can post wether I know what it means or not, and wether or not I agree with you about how usefull it is in this situation or not, thanks. Quote: 2) Instead of having two full waves of drones in your bay, you will have have three full waves of drones, or two full waves plus extra E-WAR drones. This is very much a boost. [See above, for versatility.] I'll take the 2 waves and the +50% bonus to efficacy that we currently have, thanks. Quote: 4) Any other ship that uses these drones will have to reduce thier dmg output to do so, just like the Domi. The dmg will be reduced slightly less than if it were a Domi, but see "versatility" above. Not just like the Domi, far far less than the Domi, see the 50% above.
Kaell Meynn Divergence	Posted - 2005.11.04 03:46:00 - [2074] Originally by: Paradox Eve in addition to loosing no dmg from your drones ect Incorrect. Quote: , you are gaining a great deal of versatility by having drones in your bay for any possible situation you encounter. Any situation? You seem to be suggesting we'll be able to fit a full set of 5 drones of all the different types, while ignoring the fact that we need a full set of 15 damage drones in order to keep our drones HPs the same (and lock times still less thus more frail, and travel times still longer thus less effective). If we need all 15 to be standard drones just to be ALMOST where we are now, then where are we supposed to get room for another 25 drones to be able to have drones for "any possible situation"? Also, I don't think it's as usefull as you make it out to be. The drones you want to use will mostly depend on your ship setup, and this is determined before you undock. Quote: This very much offsets the relatively small dmg loss over another pilot when you use one of the new drones as opposed to a traditional drone. 50% is small?!? What in the hell do you consider large then?? Quote: Verstility: learn it and respect it, and then you can come back and post again. Actually, (though I know what versatility means, and how to spell it) I can post wether I know what it means or not, and wether or not I agree with you about how usefull it is in this situation or not, thanks. Quote: 2) Instead of having two full waves of drones in your bay, you will have have three full waves of drones, or two full waves plus extra E-WAR drones. This is very much a boost. [See above, for versatility.] I'll take the 2 waves and the +50% bonus to efficacy that we currently have, thanks. Quote: 4) Any other ship that uses these drones will have to reduce thier dmg output to do so, just like the Domi. The dmg will be reduced slightly less than if it were a Domi, but see "versatility" above. Not just like the Domi, far far less than the Domi, see the 50% above.
jamesw	Posted - 2005.11.04 04:13:00 - [2075] Originally by: Kaell Meynn Quote: This very much offsets the relatively small dmg loss over another pilot when you use one of the new drones as opposed to a traditional drone. 50% is small?!? What in the hell do you consider large then?? where does it say you lose 50% in damage? last I saw, damage was the same. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2005.11.04 04:13:00 - [2076] Originally by: Kaell Meynn Quote: This very much offsets the relatively small dmg loss over another pilot when you use one of the new drones as opposed to a traditional drone. 50% is small?!? What in the hell do you consider large then?? where does it say you lose 50% in damage? last I saw, damage was the same. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.11.04 04:14:00 - [2077] Quote: Incorrect. False. You loose no dmg with 5 (new) drones vs 15 (old) drones. Quote: Any situation? You seem to be suggesting we'll be able to fit a full set of 5 drones of all the different types No, and you wouldn't really need to do that either. Point was, you can fill your hold with drones set for different situations: Some as "frig poppers", some as jammers/disrupters, some as dmg dealers, ect. Quote: while ignoring the fact that we need a full set of 15 damage drones in order to keep our drones HPs the same (and lock times still less thus more frail, and travel times still longer thus less effective). Nope, not ignoring- taking this as a tradeoff for the boosts. Quote: Also, I don't think it's as usefull as you make it out to be. The drones you want to use will mostly depend on your ship setup, and this is determined before you undock. Added versatility which will compliment your setup. Even better! Quote: 50% is small?!? It's realtively small, compared to the overall difference you do with all your drones vs what they do with all thier drones. Yes. Quote: I'll take the 2 waves and the +50% bonus to efficacy that we currently have, thanks. Incorrect. Use drones as you do now, they will be as effective in most situations, slight less effective in some, and you have the potential to make them much more effective than any other pilot- and more effective dmg than you have now (see sentry drones, and stop ignoring them). Quote: Not just like the Domi, far far less than the Domi, see the 50% above. Overshadowed by extra waves of drones, more versatility in, arguably, one of the most veratile BSs already in game, and other potential boosts in power beyond any other pilot (sentry drones). Sorry, but compared to that your arguments are lame, IMO.
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.11.04 04:14:00 - [2078] Quote: Incorrect. False. You loose no dmg with 5 (new) drones vs 15 (old) drones. Quote: Any situation? You seem to be suggesting we'll be able to fit a full set of 5 drones of all the different types No, and you wouldn't really need to do that either. Point was, you can fill your hold with drones set for different situations: Some as "frig poppers", some as jammers/disrupters, some as dmg dealers, ect. Quote: while ignoring the fact that we need a full set of 15 damage drones in order to keep our drones HPs the same (and lock times still less thus more frail, and travel times still longer thus less effective). Nope, not ignoring- taking this as a tradeoff for the boosts. Quote: Also, I don't think it's as usefull as you make it out to be. The drones you want to use will mostly depend on your ship setup, and this is determined before you undock. Added versatility which will compliment your setup. Even better! Quote: 50% is small?!? It's realtively small, compared to the overall difference you do with all your drones vs what they do with all thier drones. Yes. Quote: I'll take the 2 waves and the +50% bonus to efficacy that we currently have, thanks. Incorrect. Use drones as you do now, they will be as effective in most situations, slight less effective in some, and you have the potential to make them much more effective than any other pilot- and more effective dmg than you have now (see sentry drones, and stop ignoring them). Quote: Not just like the Domi, far far less than the Domi, see the 50% above. Overshadowed by extra waves of drones, more versatility in, arguably, one of the most veratile BSs already in game, and other potential boosts in power beyond any other pilot (sentry drones). Sorry, but compared to that your arguments are lame, IMO.
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.04 05:33:00 - [2079] Originally by: Paradox Eve False. You loose no dmg with 5 (new) drones vs 15 (old) drones. Uhh, you said "in addition to loosing no dmg from your drones ect" which is incorrect, I don't have DI5, I do lose damage (it is a fairly small amount, but it does exist), so your first statement was false, and your statement that my evaluation of your statement was false is also false. copies childish eyeroll Quote: No, and you wouldn't really need to do that either. Point was, you can fill your hold with drones set for different situations: Some as "frig poppers", some as jammers/disrupters, some as dmg dealers, ect. You're still either ignoring (or conveniently not mentioning) that we need a full set of standard drones, or they have effectively become far more frail. It's either one or the other, we simply cannot load 15 standard drones and 20 other drones at the same time. That's not how it works. If you assume someone fills bay with 'other' drones, then you should be also mentioning the severe nerf to drone survivability, which you are conveniently not mentioning in the analysis. Quote: Added versatility which will compliment your setup. Even better! Right, the same versatility that everyone else has, as you know what your setup is when you undock, and what will compliment it. The Domi gets a little more versatility in feild, but at a pretty damn hefty cost that most would never pay. Quote: It's realtively small, compared to the overall difference you do with all your drones vs what they do with all thier drones. Yes. The amount you lose more is 50%, the amount damage drones do more is 50%, so 50% is small in comparison to 50%? O.o I'd say that's equal in comparison, but hell, what do I know, I think 12.6 is less than 13, and 11.25 is less than 15 too, so clearly I can't do math.
Kaell Meynn Divergence	Posted - 2005.11.04 05:33:00 - [2080] Originally by: Paradox Eve False. You loose no dmg with 5 (new) drones vs 15 (old) drones. Uhh, you said "in addition to loosing no dmg from your drones ect" which is incorrect, I don't have DI5, I do lose damage (it is a fairly small amount, but it does exist), so your first statement was false, and your statement that my evaluation of your statement was false is also false. copies childish eyeroll Quote: No, and you wouldn't really need to do that either. Point was, you can fill your hold with drones set for different situations: Some as "frig poppers", some as jammers/disrupters, some as dmg dealers, ect. You're still either ignoring (or conveniently not mentioning) that we need a full set of standard drones, or they have effectively become far more frail. It's either one or the other, we simply cannot load 15 standard drones and 20 other drones at the same time. That's not how it works. If you assume someone fills bay with 'other' drones, then you should be also mentioning the severe nerf to drone survivability, which you are conveniently not mentioning in the analysis. Quote: Added versatility which will compliment your setup. Even better! Right, the same versatility that everyone else has, as you know what your setup is when you undock, and what will compliment it. The Domi gets a little more versatility in feild, but at a pretty damn hefty cost that most would never pay. Quote: It's realtively small, compared to the overall difference you do with all your drones vs what they do with all thier drones. Yes. The amount you lose more is 50%, the amount damage drones do more is 50%, so 50% is small in comparison to 50%? O.o I'd say that's equal in comparison, but hell, what do I know, I think 12.6 is less than 13, and 11.25 is less than 15 too, so clearly I can't do math.

Ricdic	Posted - 2005.11.04 05:36:00 - [2081] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Well, I'd say pick one: door #1: give Raven bonuses only to kinetic missiles door #2: give Dom bonus (+5%) to all drone damage types, instead of the +10% per level thermal Given that a Raven can switch damage type much faster than a Dom can recall drones to bay and launch new set, the above is a given if we want game balance. I'd go for: - Dom, Ishtar & Vexor: +5% per level all drone damage - Raven, Cerberus and Caracal: +5% per level all missile damage Seems fair to me. Sorry einstein, but the raven doesnt get any direct damage bonus, so I am happy accept a damage bonus to kinetic torps, in place of our current 10% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo Velocity per level. I would prefer a max torp range of 60km, with a damage bonus, than to be able to shoot an extra 30km. With the exception of sniping, and some fleet warfare, it is pointless using torps for 80km+ ranges. Sure you would use it for some missions, but these days missions are mostly in deadspace, and your relative distance to opponent is usually sub 40km. Give us a damage bonus instead !!!1!1! On another note, give us a CPU bonus instead of one of our current ones, allowing us to actually fit 7 or 8 siege or cruise. Would be nice to actuall have a DEDICATED battleship, not just a mixture. Current Order = Griffin >> Blackbird >> Scorpion Merlin >> Moa >> Raven Kestrel >> Caracal >> ????? Every other race has tier2 ships with full dedicated slots of at least 7 high for one type of weapon. (exception minmatr, who i think deserve some loving too) Otherwise, drones look like a nice change for Eve, but could do with some refining, so gallente doesnt get too screwed over. /me cancels second account training of Gallente Cruiser V, and switches to Amarr Battleship Level 1. ------------------------------------------ Dreadnought Production INC is recruiting Join DPI Channel Or Visit (IGB) http://www.mmorpg-online.net/intro.html
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Placement Holding	Posted - 2005.11.04 05:36:00 - [2082] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Well, I'd say pick one: door #1: give Raven bonuses only to kinetic missiles door #2: give Dom bonus (+5%) to all drone damage types, instead of the +10% per level thermal Given that a Raven can switch damage type much faster than a Dom can recall drones to bay and launch new set, the above is a given if we want game balance. I'd go for: - Dom, Ishtar & Vexor: +5% per level all drone damage - Raven, Cerberus and Caracal: +5% per level all missile damage Seems fair to me. Sorry einstein, but the raven doesnt get any direct damage bonus, so I am happy accept a damage bonus to kinetic torps, in place of our current 10% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo Velocity per level. I would prefer a max torp range of 60km, with a damage bonus, than to be able to shoot an extra 30km. With the exception of sniping, and some fleet warfare, it is pointless using torps for 80km+ ranges. Sure you would use it for some missions, but these days missions are mostly in deadspace, and your relative distance to opponent is usually sub 40km. Give us a damage bonus instead !!!1!1! On another note, give us a CPU bonus instead of one of our current ones, allowing us to actually fit 7 or 8 siege or cruise. Would be nice to actuall have a DEDICATED battleship, not just a mixture. Current Order = Griffin >> Blackbird >> Scorpion Merlin >> Moa >> Raven Kestrel >> Caracal >> ????? Every other race has tier2 ships with full dedicated slots of at least 7 high for one type of weapon. (exception minmatr, who i think deserve some loving too) Otherwise, drones look like a nice change for Eve, but could do with some refining, so gallente doesnt get too screwed over. /me cancels second account training of Gallente Cruiser V, and switches to Amarr Battleship Level 1. Insured Research and Production Services
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.04 05:38:00 - [2083] Originally by: jamesw Originally by: Kaell Meynn Quote: This very much offsets the relatively small dmg loss over another pilot when you use one of the new drones as opposed to a traditional drone. 50% is small?!? What in the hell do you consider large then?? where does it say you lose 50% in damage? last I saw, damage was the same. Assuming Drones-5, DI-5... If a Megathron uses a Webbing drone, they lose X amount of DPS. If a Dominix uses a Webbing drone, they lose *1.5 X** amount of DPS, where X = (2Current Drone DPS). That is my entire complaint, which Tux still hasn't even mentioned he knows the issue exists. (1.5X) is 50% more than (X) They dont SAY you lose 50% more damage using the new drones, because people would see that and complain about it being wrong. It is a hidden attribute of the workings of the system that you have to work out on your own to see.
Kaell Meynn Divergence	Posted - 2005.11.04 05:38:00 - [2084] Originally by: jamesw Originally by: Kaell Meynn Quote: This very much offsets the relatively small dmg loss over another pilot when you use one of the new drones as opposed to a traditional drone. 50% is small?!? What in the hell do you consider large then?? where does it say you lose 50% in damage? last I saw, damage was the same. Assuming Drones-5, DI-5... If a Megathron uses a Webbing drone, they lose X amount of DPS. If a Dominix uses a Webbing drone, they lose *1.5 X** amount of DPS, where X = (2Current Drone DPS). That is my entire complaint, which Tux still hasn't even mentioned he knows the issue exists. (1.5X) is 50% more than (X) They dont SAY you lose 50% more damage using the new drones, because people would see that and complain about it being wrong. It is a hidden attribute of the workings of the system that you have to work out on your own to see.
BABARR	Posted - 2005.11.04 05:47:00 - [2085] The funny think whith the EW drone is the Blackbird going to suck a lot in front of the celestis and the arbitrator. Once again, Caldari ship who is "the best EW ship" going to be the worst.
BABARR	Posted - 2005.11.04 05:47:00 - [2086] The funny think whith the EW drone is the Blackbird going to suck a lot in front of the celestis and the arbitrator. Once again, Caldari ship who is "the best EW ship" going to be the worst.
jamesw	Posted - 2005.11.04 06:01:00 - [2087] Originally by: Kaell Meynn Assuming Drones-5, DI-5... If a Megathron uses a Webbing drone, they lose X amount of DPS. If a Dominix uses a Webbing drone, they lose *1.5 X** amount of DPS, where X = (2Current Drone DPS). That is my entire complaint, which Tux still hasn't even mentioned he knows the issue exists. (1.5X) is 50% more than (X) They dont SAY you lose 50% more damage using the new drones, because people would see that and complain about it being wrong. It is a hidden attribute of the workings of the system that you have to work out on your own to see. So what you are saying is that, if I launch non damaging drones, I do less damage? well... duhh... nobody is making you use web drones - you have 5 midslots for a reason, you know? If you decide to specialise in using drones offensively, then use offensive drones. I can't see a problem there. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2005.11.04 06:01:00 - [2088] Originally by: Kaell Meynn Assuming Drones-5, DI-5... If a Megathron uses a Webbing drone, they lose X amount of DPS. If a Dominix uses a Webbing drone, they lose *1.5 X** amount of DPS, where X = (2Current Drone DPS). That is my entire complaint, which Tux still hasn't even mentioned he knows the issue exists. (1.5X) is 50% more than (X) They dont SAY you lose 50% more damage using the new drones, because people would see that and complain about it being wrong. It is a hidden attribute of the workings of the system that you have to work out on your own to see. So what you are saying is that, if I launch non damaging drones, I do less damage? well... duhh... nobody is making you use web drones - you have 5 midslots for a reason, you know? If you decide to specialise in using drones offensively, then use offensive drones. I can't see a problem there. -- Latest Vid: Domination!
throbbinnoggin	Posted - 2005.11.04 06:34:00 - [2089] My only problen with the additional types of drones being introduced is the versatlity being added to any ship that can float them while ships that have no drone bay will be left out in the dark. Take for instance Maller vs. Thorax. Currently a fairly even matchup in that a good pilot in either can defeat the other. With the proposed system all drone bays will be cut in half further reducing the Rax drone bay to 50m3. But it will still be able to float 5 medium drones of which it has the choice of tracking disruptors or ew to nullify the Mallers guns, neuts to burn its cap or better yet, webber drones. These could effectively free up a Rax's midslot for a cap booster instead of a web for example. Note the above is just an example and not another anti Rax rant...been enough of those. It's just an example of how the versatility of any ship capable of floating any sort of dronage, and its imo unbalancing advantage it will give them vs. their non drone capable counterparts. Btw, if I'm "missing" some counterpoint my apologies if its already been brought up. But being up to 36 pages I couldn't bring myself to look through more than a half dozen or so. Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. 'Abraham Lincoln'
throbbinnoggin Gallente Eminent Domain	Posted - 2005.11.04 06:34:00 - [2090] My only problen with the additional types of drones being introduced is the versatlity being added to any ship that can float them while ships that have no drone bay will be left out in the dark. Take for instance Maller vs. Thorax. Currently a fairly even matchup in that a good pilot in either can defeat the other. With the proposed system all drone bays will be cut in half further reducing the Rax drone bay to 50m3. But it will still be able to float 5 medium drones of which it has the choice of tracking disruptors or ew to nullify the Mallers guns, neuts to burn its cap or better yet, webber drones. These could effectively free up a Rax's midslot for a cap booster instead of a web for example. Note the above is just an example and not another anti Rax rant...been enough of those. It's just an example of how the versatility of any ship capable of floating any sort of dronage, and its imo unbalancing advantage it will give them vs. their non drone capable counterparts. Btw, if I'm "missing" some counterpoint my apologies if its already been brought up. But being up to 36 pages I couldn't bring myself to look through more than a half dozen or so. Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. 'Abraham Lincoln'

Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.11.04 07:27:00 - [2091] Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 04/11/2005 07:27:35 Originally by: jamesw So what you are saying is that, if I launch non damaging drones, I do less damage? well... duhh... nobody is making you use web drones - you have 5 midslots for a reason, you know? If you decide to specialise in using drones offensively, then use offensive drones. I can't see a problem there. No, what I'm saying is... If Joe Blow (with the same skills as me) uses web drones, he does less damage, but if I use Web drones, I do more less damage (if ya follow that). This isn't due to me specializing in using drones offencively, it's because I fly a Dominix. is gonna smash something if he has to explain this again
Kaell Meynn Divergence	Posted - 2005.11.04 07:27:00 - [2092] Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 04/11/2005 07:27:35 Originally by: jamesw So what you are saying is that, if I launch non damaging drones, I do less damage? well... duhh... nobody is making you use web drones - you have 5 midslots for a reason, you know? If you decide to specialise in using drones offensively, then use offensive drones. I can't see a problem there. No, what I'm saying is... If Joe Blow (with the same skills as me) uses web drones, he does less damage, but if I use Web drones, I do more less damage (if ya follow that). This isn't due to me specializing in using drones offencively, it's because I fly a Dominix. is gonna smash something if he has to explain this again
kar wai	Posted - 2005.11.04 08:06:00 - [2093] Oh come on people, These new feature will bring new elements into the game. Yes, things will change. Some ships have less DPS, some have less good EW, but lets take a look at the new possibilities instead of whining about DPS or mining, while you can do sooooo many new things to make it up.
kar wai	Posted - 2005.11.04 08:06:00 - [2094] Oh come on people, These new feature will bring new elements into the game. Yes, things will change. Some ships have less DPS, some have less good EW, but lets take a look at the new possibilities instead of whining about DPS or mining, while you can do sooooo many new things to make it up.
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.11.04 08:07:00 - [2095] Edited by: Paradox Eve on 04/11/2005 08:09:09 Edited by: Paradox Eve on 04/11/2005 08:08:29 Quote: Uhh, you said "in addition to loosing no dmg from your drones ect" which is incorrect, I don't have DI5, I do lose damage.. Not with a Dominix you dont. So your statement remains false, no matter how much you want it to be true. Try again. Quote: That's not how it works. If you assume someone fills bay with 'other' drones, then you should be also mentioning the severe nerf to drone survivability, which you are conveniently not mentioning in the analysis. Drones are being given more survivability in some ways, which you conveniently fail to mention. And there is no possible "nerf" for 'other' drones, under any circumstance here, period. There cant be, because these new drones dont exist yet. You're really reaching here, aren't you? Quote: Right, the same versatility that everyone else has... Wrong, without the dronebay size of a Domi, no other ship will ever have such versatility, so it will never be "the same". Sorry... Quote: The Domi gets a little more versatility in feild, but at a pretty damn hefty cost that most would never pay. It wouldn't pay a "cost" at all if the drones you use are exactly the drones the situation calls for. Quote: The amount you lose more is 50%, the amount damage drones do more is 50%, so 50% is small in comparison to 50%? O.o I'd say that's equal in comparison, but hell, what do I know, I think 12.6 is less than 13, and 11.25 is less than 15 too, so clearly I can't do math. Yeah, you can do math. But you can't read. Here is what I said: "It's realtively small, compared to the overall difference you do with all your drones vs what they do with all thier drones. Yes." Throwing this "50%" number around is just a number game on your part. I can do it too, look: The Domi looses the exact same percentage, 20%, of it's drone dmg when it uses a new drone vs an 'old' drone compared to another ship using a new drone. See how easy it is to throw around numbers that dont mean much? Now here is the proper way to talk about the issue: Compared to the total dmg a ship is cabable of, using a "new drone" will reduce it by a certain percentage (depending on the setup and skills). In general (but not always), the Domi will tend to loose a higher percentage compared to other ships. This has been achknowledged. But the benefits of more drones (greater versatility) offsets this disadvantage.
Paradox Eve	Posted - 2005.11.04 08:07:00 - [2096] Edited by: Paradox Eve on 04/11/2005 08:09:09 Edited by: Paradox Eve on 04/11/2005 08:08:29 Quote: Uhh, you said "in addition to loosing no dmg from your drones ect" which is incorrect, I don't have DI5, I do lose damage.. Not with a Dominix you dont. So your statement remains false, no matter how much you want it to be true. Try again. Quote: That's not how it works. If you assume someone fills bay with 'other' drones, then you should be also mentioning the severe nerf to drone survivability, which you are conveniently not mentioning in the analysis. Drones are being given more survivability in some ways, which you conveniently fail to mention. And there is no possible "nerf" for 'other' drones, under any circumstance here, period. There cant be, because these new drones dont exist yet. You're really reaching here, aren't you? Quote: Right, the same versatility that everyone else has... Wrong, without the dronebay size of a Domi, no other ship will ever have such versatility, so it will never be "the same". Sorry... Quote: The Domi gets a little more versatility in feild, but at a pretty damn hefty cost that most would never pay. It wouldn't pay a "cost" at all if the drones you use are exactly the drones the situation calls for. Quote: The amount you lose more is 50%, the amount damage drones do more is 50%, so 50% is small in comparison to 50%? O.o I'd say that's equal in comparison, but hell, what do I know, I think 12.6 is less than 13, and 11.25 is less than 15 too, so clearly I can't do math. Yeah, you can do math. But you can't read. Here is what I said: "It's realtively small, compared to the overall difference you do with all your drones vs what they do with all thier drones. Yes." Throwing this "50%" number around is just a number game on your part. I can do it too, look: The Domi looses the exact same percentage, 20%, of it's drone dmg when it uses a new drone vs an 'old' drone compared to another ship using a new drone. See how easy it is to throw around numbers that dont mean much? Now here is the proper way to talk about the issue: Compared to the total dmg a ship is cabable of, using a "new drone" will reduce it by a certain percentage (depending on the setup and skills). In general (but not always), the Domi will tend to loose a higher percentage compared to other ships. This has been achknowledged. But the benefits of more drones (greater versatility) offsets this disadvantage.
jamesw	Posted - 2005.11.04 08:34:00 - [2097] Originally by: Kaell Meynn No, what I'm saying is... If Joe Blow (with the same skills as me) uses web drones, he does less damage, but if I use Web drones, I do more less damage (if ya follow that). This isn't due to me specializing in using drones offencively, it's because I fly a Dominix. is gonna smash something if he has to explain this again So... let me get this straight.... You get specific bonuses for damage, and you would knowingly choose to give it up for Webbing. Thats fair enough, you are more than entitled to do so - its your ship, and your setup. Why is it something worth complaining about?? Personally, I would just fit a webber and keep my damage bonus 5th drone. In the current system, just so you know, a Dominix has no bonus to webbing drones, armour repair drones, ewar drones and the rest. oh yeah, thats because they dont exist, so there is no point in comparing them! -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2005.11.04 08:34:00 - [2098] Originally by: Kaell Meynn No, what I'm saying is... If Joe Blow (with the same skills as me) uses web drones, he does less damage, but if I use Web drones, I do more less damage (if ya follow that). This isn't due to me specializing in using drones offencively, it's because I fly a Dominix. is gonna smash something if he has to explain this again So... let me get this straight.... You get specific bonuses for damage, and you would knowingly choose to give it up for Webbing. Thats fair enough, you are more than entitled to do so - its your ship, and your setup. Why is it something worth complaining about?? Personally, I would just fit a webber and keep my damage bonus 5th drone. In the current system, just so you know, a Dominix has no bonus to webbing drones, armour repair drones, ewar drones and the rest. oh yeah, thats because they dont exist, so there is no point in comparing them! -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Sanaen Eydanwadh	Posted - 2005.11.04 09:03:00 - [2099] Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild All I want is to be able to tackle effectively. I'm still very new, but I chose to specialize in frigates because I wanted to tackle bigger ships. Not only do webbers and ewar drones make it harder to tackle the enemy, i'm worried my own gang members (aka those i'm tackling for) will in future say "Get a bigger ship, we have drones that fill your role already kthnx" Exactly my concerns. Frigates may become suicidaries (more than they already are) AND redundant. And it has little to do with the youth of the character - unless tackling/ small ships is supposed to be for rookies only, every others being supposed to use exclusively Battleships? So much for balance and frigate specializations indeed... It's too early to complain really about this being utterly balance/ gameplay - breaking, but amongst the ambient scarry complaints about these changes being nerfs...
Sanaen Eydanwadh Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2005.11.04 09:03:00 - [2100] Originally by: Slink Grinsdikild All I want is to be able to tackle effectively. I'm still very new, but I chose to specialize in frigates because I wanted to tackle bigger ships. Not only do webbers and ewar drones make it harder to tackle the enemy, i'm worried my own gang members (aka those i'm tackling for) will in future say "Get a bigger ship, we have drones that fill your role already kthnx" Exactly my concerns. Frigates may become suicidaries (more than they already are) AND redundant. And it has little to do with the youth of the character - unless tackling/ small ships is supposed to be for rookies only, every others being supposed to use exclusively Battleships? So much for balance and frigate specializations indeed... It's too early to complain really about this being utterly balance/ gameplay - breaking, but amongst the ambient scarry complaints about these changes being nerfs...



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