Why are we fixing and solving what previously was a non issue? And I agree, your solution will be what we need to do, so yea whatever but....

I suspect most of the time the warp in is gonna be a dual boxing FC alt...which is just going to be another layer of **** to manage.

My objection is more aimed at where did this change come from and why is CCP spending resources on an at best inconvenience item that isn't going to add do much to achieve the intent? Especially as other issues go unresolved, and Fozzie doc has not yet been implemented (and afaik they've yet to. Resolve the implementation of flexible time zone options)

I mean, if you're going to start messing with core systems like fleet mechanics isn't that worth a more thought out debate over a bit of time?

Incomplete answer.
If the fleet consists of members of 1 corp, all could warp to a corp BM and (according to your answer) should be able to get fleetwarped there.
If the fleet consists of people that all have the same BM, in either personal or corp BMs, they can all warp to that BM and should (as per your logic) be able to get fleetwarped there.

So, which is it - can't fleetwarp to BMs [period] or can't fleetwarp to locations some of your fleetmembers can't warp themselves to...?

So you want your probing ship to potentially have no probing bonus and no probing rigs?

Please refrain from using specious argument tactics.

For reference, the two you used are:

* Assumption that development time in Eve is completely fungible between concerns. It's not, and CCP, being an entity that hires more than one person to develop the game, is capable of doing multiple things at once.
* Declaration that the game change in question cannot be implemented until every niggling issue, imagined or real, has been thoroughly debated and solved. We don't need to cure cancer in order to reduce a fever or bandage a wound.

Dear CCP Larkin and CCP Fozzie,

This is game breaking for W-Space.

And here are the two main reasons:

The main game breaking reason is:

When travelling in W-Space AS A FLEET you almost always have to Fleet Warp from a bookmark to travel from Wormhole to Wormhole until you get to your destination Wormhole. Sometimes you engage hostiles on a wormhole, other times you Fleet Warp to a specific location, whether it be a safe, bounce off of a tower, a tractor unit/wreck, or even a friendly tower.

If we cannot move as a fleet, this will absolutely break Fleet engagements in W-Space. Just like in Null-Sec it is important to move as a fleet, but unlike Null Sec we do not have Gates on our overview or Stations on our overview. We use bookmarks for safes, wormholes, and POS'.

How can you seriously expect us to do anything in a coordinated manner if we cannot warp as a group? Have you even been involved in wormhole fleet fights to see how it all works? If you'd like specific examples of how various wormhole engagements would be impossible, I'd be more then happy to supply them.

The second reason:

When in wormhole space, you sometimes have to combat scan a small ship to kill him. And often times you need to "throw" a tackle ship at that ship you are combat scanning. With these changes it will be near impossible to catch a small ship because by the time your combat scan ship lands the target will quite possibly be gone, or if you tackle in the scan ship, it might not survive until help arrives.

I am strongly URGING you to reconsider how this change will IRREPARABLY DAMAGE W-Space before implementing this. W-Space in many ways is struggling, and this could very well destroy it. I really don't understand why CCP feels the need to have all changes in the game revolve around Null Sec.

Thank you for your time.

Generally I am for these changes. I think it will add some interesting dynamics and will open up doctrine choices that were over-shadowed with the current META of overpowered probing/fleet warp mechanics. There is one thing I'd like to change though:

Only in wormhole space, allow for fleet warps to cosmic signatures. Currently these changes disproportional affect wormholers, and I believe the proposed changes wouldn't benefit overall tactics in wormhole space compared to everywhere else.

I figured all that was a safe assumption. But let me spell it out so that you don't have to think too hard:

Lots of change right now as it is, peeps still curious about how Fozzie sov will play out and be actually implemented, lots of uncertainty about super cap future. From a messaging perspective I think CCP lost their focus on this one and didn't think through the angles before rushing to conclusions and a delivery date. Seems that's a waste of resources no?

Or is that too specious for you still?

one pilot in a fast interceptor fixes your problem.

Cross-posting what I believe would be a good compromise in this matter

Basically, the idea is to introduce a delay or "spool up" (say 5-15 seconds or so) to group warping depending on the size of the group. The delay for fleet warping would be larger than the delay for wing warping, which in turn would be larger than the time it takes to enter a squad warp. Add to that, there would be a prominent visual effect in order to help opponents react to an imminent group warp.

Pros:

• Clean solution, easy to understand. A group can warp to anything that an individual could warp to, but with a certain penalty. Makes for in interesting choice!
• Individual warping/piloting would be much faster and well organised groups more effective, thus "more individual fleet member participation" would likely be achieved.
• The downsides for group warps would be quite significant:
The visual effect would warn a kiting / sniping fleet of an incoming fleet.
If a fleet was preparing to leave the scene via fleet warp, the opposing group could spread points and/or warp a dictor on top of them to keep them on the grid.
An FC could no longer just insta-save his entire fleet without other pilots' involvement

• Last, but not least, the gazillion other (legitimate) use cases for group warps wouldn't be completely screwed.

Questions:

• Would the visual effect show on a cloaked fleet?
• Would ships align during spool up or after?

Bombers, apparently one the primary reasons for the planned changes, would need a sensible rebalancing effort at the same time. This goes without saying, the details, however, belong in another discussion.

You guys really don't want your fleet members to think on their own do you?

Yes. You're still assuming that developer time at CCP is completely fungible, and that work in one department somehow necessarily detracts from another.

+1 this is a excellent change that will help to open up combat/fleet tactics. I supported and pushed hard for this.

Sigh. No, I'm not. I'm saying its a messaging issue - bad mechanics aside - that conveys a lack of focus and concern for vetting given the context of all other change going on.

Despite your assumptions I'm generally aware that multi million dollar organizations are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time...

In your opinion. And the 42 pages of mostly negative feedback seem to think that by and large, your opinion sucks.

Sadly there's no mechanic for impeaching CSM members - because you and most of your brethren would be on the docket right now after the buggy / broken / terrible map, the "new and improved" icons, and now this.

I daresay their opinion is that combat probing allows fleets to engage too quickly. You're falling into the trap of commoditizing Eve gameplay under the monkey filth that is the contemporary use of the word "content."

Also, reducing the power of bombers almost certainly will allow the fleet meta to shift, as fleet meta is currently dominated by ships whose vulnerability to bombs is at a minimum.

Please consider the option presented by abdel_abu on Reddit at http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/39kcrq/fleet_warp_nerf_alternative_delayed_warp_spool_up/

This is seriously valuable feedback, which provides a happy compromise while adding so much potential intensity to the game, rather than headache.

Between industry and market work, I run hi sec missions with an alt.
I don't look forward to PVP and take the usual precautions against it.

This change will slow down my missioning (as I warp the mission holder to the gate and then warp the alt to the gate)

It simply adds a pointless step to the process.
I.e. it adds no fun or challenge.

Unless you're in a carrier, if you're paying attention you should be able to notice combat probes. Messing with Fleet Warp mechanics and breaking W-Space is not the way to solve the problem of people not paying attention.

Eve has been dumbed down greatly over the years and it is really laughable that every attempt to avert that trend gets met with fierce resistance. Do you people know how the game was in 2006/7? With no easy probing and none of the other shenanigans?

If you wanted to get a warp in on someone you had to get someone there first!
So if memory serves me right this is just a step closer to how EvE used to be and a good one at that!

Have you considered making the game more fun for a change

one pilot in a fast interceptor fixes your problem.

No, it won't. When you are attacking at tower in W-Space, and need to warp to bounces AS A FLEET a fast tackle interceptor won't help. When you are warping a fleet from a hostile tower or wormhole AS A FLEET to a safe/friendly tower, a fast tackle interceptor won't work. When you are running capital escalation sites in a C5 or C6 and you need to warp back to the friendly POS AS A FLEET, a fast tackle interceptor won't work. When you are fighting off of a tower with a hostile fleet and need to warp to a safe spot as A FLEET fast tackle won't work, because it could very well be dead. Fast tackle might be the answer for everything in Null Sec, but it certainly isn't in W-Space.