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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Darkplayer38
235MeV Waterboard Comedy Tour
0
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Posted - 2015.06.13 03:46:09 -
[1021] - Quote
0/10 would never warp again. |
Shadowforge Dawkins
Catastrophic Overview Failure Brave Collective
9
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Posted - 2015.06.13 03:47:27 -
[1022] - Quote
One thing I have noticed brought up on nearly every page; FC's using alts. I have been living in this Wormhole for quite some time and when we rage roll our hole for 'content'... namely more people to fight, we don't send an alt in to find the target and sit on it. We roll the hole, scan down the new, toss someone through it. Considering it is a rage roll we have 8-12 people online during our Peak times so we send 2-3 people in. Lets say we find a target, 3 Gila's are ratting in a combat site. Gila's are something to be reckoned with when fit right. Scouts come back and refit/reship bookmarking the site and where the gila's were sitting.
Assuming Standard Wormhole, not bonuses, we will grab the Devoter, 3 guardians, a second Devoter if possible, 2 guys in Jam ships to Jam them out is a bonus(we have 1 IF he is online) and all the DPS we can get. so lets assess the warp in, the DPS, the Guardians, and the Jamgu all will land at different times. some of our dps are in battlecruisers (myself in a Myrmidon). This presents a tactical problem that sure can be solved with simple math, but that math was already done by squad warp. now we get to waste unnecessary time calculating who jumps and when. So weight off the FC... no. Our FC using alts? no. Anyone using alts in that squad? again, no. You are negating the reason to Risk attacking those Gilas based on timing alone.
You guys who like to blame people using a thousand alts this is not everywhere. Wormhole space is nothing like Nullsec or known space for that matter. A group of 5-10 people can form into a Corp and have a POS and control their own little C1 wormhole without the need for territorial claim units or titans or caps... or even battleships. do we evict them? maybe if we REALLY hate them. Why not? because we love content and fights, and not evicting them means we get to roll into them later and fight again. Getting the drop on a ratting Gila or a ratting Rattlesnake is almost always done after someone rolls into a new, unscanned wormhole. This means we may only have a few minutes to form fleet, get to the wormhole that guy is in, and get the jump on it.
Not all FC's need alts. Fleet warp is used constantly without alt's and you seem to be basing your entire argument on alt's. I don't have any alt's nor intend to. and some of the folk's I play with spend more time in the climbing gym than they do on this game. Quit recking the game for the sake of making PL's life easier in terms of their preferred way of combat or PVP. It is about the Community as a whole, not one nook of EVE where a particular group thrives and would be better suited if people couldn't fleet warp on top of them. |
Miner Hottie
Haywire.
150
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Posted - 2015.06.13 03:50:50 -
[1023] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Wolf Crownn wrote:...
In conclusion, it's more of a bad idea than it is good. Only for people why rely upon the FC to do everything for their fleet.
So the FC cycles my weapons for me? Is able to press my jump key for me?
Da **** you smoking bro?
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16167
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Posted - 2015.06.13 03:59:41 -
[1024] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote:baltec1 wrote:Wolf Crownn wrote:...
In conclusion, it's more of a bad idea than it is good. Only for people why rely upon the FC to do everything for their fleet. So the FC cycles my weapons for me? Is able to press my jump key for me? Da **** you smoking bro?
Before CCP nerfed drone assist yea, they did fire your weapons for you.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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HiddenPorpoise
Expendable Miscreants
358
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Posted - 2015.06.13 04:05:22 -
[1025] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Before CCP nerfed drone assist yea, they did fire your weapons for you. Unless you were in Low where such niceties don't work. And where a lack of bombs hasn't set off a battleship meta. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
38058
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Posted - 2015.06.13 04:21:21 -
[1026] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:baltec1 wrote:Before CCP nerfed drone assist yea, they did fire your weapons for you. Unless you were in Low where such niceties don't work. And where a lack of bombs hasn't set off a battleship meta. What doesn't work about drone assist in lowsec?
Worked before. Still works now, just limited to max 50 drones assisted.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Adarnof
Free Trade Monopoly You Are Being Monitored
87
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Posted - 2015.06.13 04:23:39 -
[1027] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Q: CCP, this unduly effects people who live in wormholes! A: Yes, and we're not happy about that. We have some systems and ideas we're working on to mitigate these effects. However we're not ready to announce those yet.
Also pronounced "lol screw those guys". How did Fozzie sucker you into taking the fall for this one? If bombers are broken then nerf bombers. It's really not hard. Changing fundamental game mechanics to resolve a niche imbalance is not the way to go. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16168
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Posted - 2015.06.13 04:25:39 -
[1028] - Quote
Adarnof wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Q: CCP, this unduly effects people who live in wormholes! A: Yes, and we're not happy about that. We have some systems and ideas we're working on to mitigate these effects. However we're not ready to announce those yet. Also pronounced "lol screw those guys". How did Fozzie sucker you into taking the fall for this one? If bombers are broken then nerf bombers. It's really not hard. Changing fundamental game mechanics to resolve a niche imbalance is not the way to go.
This isnt aimed at just bombers but at all fleets.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Dictateur Imperator
Babylon Knights DARKNESS.
23
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Posted - 2015.06.13 04:32:01 -
[1029] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hopelesshobo wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote: As announced on the o7 show we are making some changes to fleet warp. Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders & Squad Commanders will no longer be able to warp to anything a fleet member couldnGÇÖt warp to on their own. This includes GÇô
Bookmarks Does this include corporation bookmarks that the person in the same corp could warp to? Yes. You can only fleet warp to things that any member of your fleet could warp to, no matter what corp or alliances they are a part of.
And for mining fleet ? A lot of miner don't play with 1 account so they use warp squad to go to they're POS to reprocess/refine. And not only on WH.
So with your solution : 1) if it's a corporation fleet : all people have the corpo BM can they warp in ? Other case you will nerf mining who can't warp easely to the belt : change window for 15 account (and a lot of miner have this). 2) It's an alliance fleet : Yo have a squad only with your corpomate/a wing . You make a warp fleet to go in your BM in belt to avoid to have to do 50 KM in propulsion mod : Can you do this if it's a corpo BM when you warp your squad of corporate. 3) Have you see the problem of BM management if you do this. 4)I propose to you to allow the old fleet warp to : Corporate POS (all your corpo must have it, and solve maybe some problem in WH to). Allow old fleet warp to warble point in celestial => like asteroid/structure in a anomaly : Only if all people are able to warp in (so if it's anom who don't require to prob). |
HiddenPorpoise
Expendable Miscreants
358
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Posted - 2015.06.13 05:09:17 -
[1030] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:baltec1 wrote:Before CCP nerfed drone assist yea, they did fire your weapons for you. Unless you were in Low where such niceties don't work. And where a lack of bombs hasn't set off a battleship meta. What doesn't work about drone assist in lowsec? Worked before. Still works now, just limited to max 50 drones assisted. In low, unless it's a CONCORD legal target, drones have a habit of not engaging when assisted. |
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Shalashaska Adam
Partial Safety
88
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Posted - 2015.06.13 05:23:09 -
[1031] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders & Squad Commanders will no longer be able to warp to anything a fleet member couldnGÇÖt warp to on their own.
CCP Larrikin wrote:Q: What if every member of the fleet has the bookmark? A: Nope, sorry, no go.
Basically just a huge quality of life reduction then, rather than a thought out balance change. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
38058
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Posted - 2015.06.13 05:31:38 -
[1032] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:baltec1 wrote:Before CCP nerfed drone assist yea, they did fire your weapons for you. Unless you were in Low where such niceties don't work. And where a lack of bombs hasn't set off a battleship meta. What doesn't work about drone assist in lowsec? Worked before. Still works now, just limited to max 50 drones assisted. In low, unless it's a CONCORD legal target, drones have a habit of not engaging when assisted. That happens when the person that drones are assisted to doesn't cycle their guns.
There is nothing special about lowsec that changes drone assist. All drones are a little bit rogue, not matter what the status of the space they are in.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2182
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Posted - 2015.06.13 05:45:13 -
[1033] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:Unless you were in Low where such niceties don't work. And where a lack of bombs hasn't set off a battleship meta. What doesn't work about drone assist in lowsec? Worked before. Still works now, just limited to max 50 drones assisted. In low, unless it's a CONCORD legal target, drones have a habit of not engaging when assisted. That happens when the person that drones are assisted to doesn't cycle their guns. There is nothing special about lowsec that changes drone assist. All drones are a little bit rogue, not matter what the status of the space they are in. There isn't anything such as CONCORD legal target is lowsec. There is crimewatch that monitors acts of aggression and will trigger sentry guns if you perform a suspect or criminal act within 150km of them, but you can always shoot anyone you want depending on your own safety setting. Not quite:
CCP Fozzie wrote:Drones will never take an action that causes their owner to get a crimewatch flag unless the owner explicitly instructs them to. Basically going flashy is cool, going flashy without any choice in the matter is not. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5788543#post5788543
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1071
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Posted - 2015.06.13 06:00:58 -
[1034] - Quote
All the people saying, "this will make players in large fleets have to interact more! That is a good thing! This will improve quality of life for everyone!"
I call nonsense.
Being one of 256 pilots in a fleet sucks. It sucks for the FC, who is trying to herd cats, keep abreast of the tactical/operational situation, and hear himself think over DBRB whooping for joy. It sucks for the line member, who cannot chat with his friends, who has to endure listening to DBRB talk about his dog, or just has to sit there waiting for something [anything] to happen.
This change is not going to improve the large fleet experience in any way shape or form. Eve is a fun small gang game - where you have pilots who know each other, work well together, and can communicate easily, whether explicitly or implicitly.
Quote:Typical coalition fleet pilot's thoughts:
Did he say warp? I think he said warp... damn, that chick is hot! Mr. Snugglepants always drops the best links in fleet chat! Plus, my wife doesn't know how to check the history on the in-game browser!
Where did he say to align? Was it planet 1 moon 7? Or planet 7, moon 1? Maybe I should ask in fleet chat? Or am I supposed to ask those "stupid" questions in corp chat?
Man, TIDI blows! It's not as bad as the lag from back in 2007, but man, this sucks... To the moron on comms, "Yes, we know there is ******* TIDI you mouth-breathing, window-licking imbecile." Did I say that out load? Did I press push to talk?
Did the FC just say, "Cancel Fleet Warp! If you don't you are dead and it will be your own fault!" Oh crap! There I go! I guess I'm dead...
Wow! That was close. I went afk to get another beer, had to take the trash out to keep the wife off my back, made a sandwich, put the dog out in the yard, and came back to find we are still sitting in the POS waiting to find out if we are going to get blueballed...
Oh wow! Here we go, we are warping in! Loading grid... Loading grid. Primary is RonanIsPrimary? Humph... I bet he thinks that's a clever name. Well, he's dead now. Another T1 cruiser killmail. Yay? Too bad our dictor pilots all died and the rest of the enemy got away...
Oh look, we are going to sit on this gate in case the enemy comes back. Apparently SOMEONE else, wink wink nudge nudge ZOMG OPSEC is going to kill the tower. Why didn't I get the ping for Supers? Why is it always the FC's inner circle who get to use their shiny toys?
FC: "Okay, ladies, You know how we came out to Catch through that WH?" Fleet: "Yeah..." FC: "Well, someone collapsed it while we were on that four long POS-reinforcement op. I have been up all night and have to be at work in twenty minutes. So, either self-destruct, or dock up in the NPC station, or hang out here for the next 1 day, 18 hours, until the POS comes out of reinforcement, or you can try to roam back the 47 jumps... if there is someone willing to lead the fleet. Any volunteers? Noobie FC: "Yes, me! I'll do it!" FC: "Okay guys, Mr. Gullible will lead you back home. Interceptors please don't just all warp back and leave the rest of the fleet hanging, they'll need scouts..." Interceptor pilots: "Whoosh! Whoosh! Whoosh! So long suckers! We only have to do this for 30 minutes because we warp so fast! Sucks to be you guys!"
And you people think taking away fleet warps is going to make being one of 256 pilots more fun? Get real.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
So, why do I continue to provide feedback on these forums?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5813975#post5813975
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Resa Moon
New Eden Miners Association
5
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Posted - 2015.06.13 06:36:46 -
[1035] - Quote
Proposed changes to fleet warp are idiotic. Eve has enough tedium as is, don't present more. Ridiculous if you feel you have to FORCE players into engaging with the game.
New Eden Mining Blog
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
665
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Posted - 2015.06.13 06:38:16 -
[1036] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:HiddenPorpoise wrote:baltec1 wrote:Before CCP nerfed drone assist yea, they did fire your weapons for you. Unless you were in Low where such niceties don't work. And where a lack of bombs hasn't set off a battleship meta. What doesn't work about drone assist in lowsec? Worked before. Still works now, just limited to max 50 drones assisted. In low, unless it's a CONCORD legal target, drones have a habit of not engaging when assisted. That happens when the person that drones are assisted to doesn't cycle their guns. There is nothing special about lowsec that changes drone assist. All drones are a little bit rogue, not matter what the status of the space they are in. There isn't anything such as CONCORD legal target is lowsec. There is crimewatch that monitors acts of aggression and will trigger sentry guns if you perform a suspect or criminal act within 150km of them, but you can always shoot anyone you want depending on your own safety setting. Drone assist doesn't work for me either in low, except for rats. I suppose it has to do with the not so recent change in drone aggression. Now drones will not start a new limited engagement without your explicit command. Hence assisted drones will not aggress neutrals or suspects in low unless you already have a limited engagement with them.
And yes, there are special rules in lowsec which matter here.
EDIT: Zappity already has the quote and confirmation.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
52
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Posted - 2015.06.13 07:00:57 -
[1037] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:All the people saying, "this will make players in large fleets have to interact more! That is a good thing! This will improve quality of life for everyone!"
I call nonsense.
Being one of 256 pilots in a fleet sucks. It sucks for the FC, who is trying to herd cats, keep abreast of the tactical/operational situation, and hear himself think over DBRB whooping for joy. It sucks for the line member, who cannot chat with his friends, who has to endure listening to DBRB talk about his dog, or just has to sit there waiting for something [anything] to happen.
Quoted for truth.
A) This is an accurate representation of the DBRB experience.
B) The other coordination required to operate a big fleet is immense, and running a small cruiser gang does not offer a valid point of comparison. More things to play "game of telephone" with is not going to IF YOU WARPED YOU'RE DEAD any additional engagement in EVE. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2183
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Posted - 2015.06.13 07:03:25 -
[1038] - Quote
Resa Moon wrote:Proposed changes to fleet warp are idiotic. Eve has enough tedium as is, don't present more. Ridiculous if you feel you have to FORCE players into engaging with the game. This is an interesting point. Changes which make people want to be engaged would surely be better. I wonder if CCP understands the appeal of blob warfare (I certainly don't but acknowledge that there must be something I'm missing).
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1078
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Posted - 2015.06.13 07:09:57 -
[1039] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Resa Moon wrote:Proposed changes to fleet warp are idiotic. Eve has enough tedium as is, don't present more. Ridiculous if you feel you have to FORCE players into engaging with the game. This is an interesting point. Changes which make people want to be engaged would surely be better. I wonder if CCP understands the appeal of blob warfare (I certainly don't but acknowledge that there must be something I'm missing).
The appeal is in winning. The appeal is in not having to move out of your space. The appeal is in having a modicum of stability in an unstable and harsh universe. The cost is that the actual PVP element of the game becomes less engaging.
It's kind of like that quote from Vietnam, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it."
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
So, why do I post here?
Because of this: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1383
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Posted - 2015.06.13 07:37:25 -
[1040] - Quote
Dermeisen wrote:Servanda wrote:afkalt wrote:Leoric Firesword wrote:Sparrow Creature wrote:this change will kill wormhole just saying.. not really, after you align to your next site, instead of your FC warping you he gives the command "warp now" or "warp to b" and boom, you're doing the same thing you did before. you're welcome that I fixed wormholing for you :) And al the different ship classess arrive in dibs and drabs and are obliterated because there was no logi or support for the logi. Brilliant. Or did you forget they all warp at different speeds now? You did, didn't you..... 1. Cloaked alt warps first 2. FC warps Fleet to that alt Fixed You are able to warp in a staggered fashion with that in mind and you hadn't forgotten about the session timer when you land on grid. You had, hadn't you......
Yes, leaving ships on grid at the start of the warp is so different from them left alone at the desto, right? |
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1383
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Posted - 2015.06.13 07:44:41 -
[1041] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:Marech Bhayanaka wrote:afkalt wrote: Moving a fleet through a wormhole chain in a cohesive manner WITHOUT needing to put a scout on EVERY bookmark first.
You need ONE scout with bookmarks. The fleet warps to the scout and before they even land he is through the wormhole and off to the next BM. What am I missing here? (Seriously asking.) Marech. Wormholes make people rightly paranoid and they'd rather punt people down a chain than be in the open at what is more or less a permanently blind gate. That and large systems where the scout may take nearly 30 seconds to cross in the first place are why wormholers are so upset.
^^ That's why.
Your fleet could be being approached by a cloaky dictor at any time, and you have NO IDEA.
Sitting on grid waiting on a scout landing....not cool. |
Diggertothend
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
2
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Posted - 2015.06.13 07:49:22 -
[1042] - Quote
CCP there are plenty of problems but fleet warping isnt one of them. Please don't destroy what has been working without any problems for no good reason |
Dermeisen
14
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Posted - 2015.06.13 08:18:32 -
[1043] - Quote
All fleets need tackling scouts wormhole fleets especially?
CCP (crowd control ..... no kidding) should reduce the CPU of a combat probe launcher, as you essentially have with the utility of the tactical destroyer.
Perhaps interceptors/assault frigates should have a similar bonus. Scouts should be able to tackle effectively and probe shouldn't they?
The people worst hit are multi boxer miners, and while I think they are basically bad for the game I also think you addressed them effectively in rule changes.
Hitting mining without first make mining more damn interesting, i.e rewarding the lone miner is a very legitimate gripe imo.
Go have a look at other space games for inspiration CCP because mining sucks and the only way to make if fun it to run multiple clients. Multi box gate campers and bomber wings should be hit hard by this also and while under the new rules their game is legitimate I for one won't weep at its passing.
[..... it takes guts to do the unpopular thing. Tough changes for a better game ++
"Not the Boreworms!"
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Anya Klibor
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
779
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Posted - 2015.06.13 09:30:12 -
[1044] - Quote
Want to just remove "Warp to 0" as well, since clearly this mechanic is a problem as well? I mean, you want to make the players more responsible...
We're recruiting! :D
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Sasha Cohenberg
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
6
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Posted - 2015.06.13 09:58:39 -
[1045] - Quote
how about we just remove fleets altgother? |
Anya Klibor
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
779
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Posted - 2015.06.13 10:16:07 -
[1046] - Quote
Sasha Cohenberg wrote:how about we just remove fleets altgother?
Please stop giving them ideas...
We're recruiting! :D
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Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
99
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Posted - 2015.06.13 10:36:35 -
[1047] - Quote
Potamus Jenkins wrote:Airi Cho wrote:Potamus Jenkins wrote:"you cannot activate your propulsion module while running command links" sometimes you really wish you could down vote people. Ever ran a small gang with a CS fitting a link or two while also being combat fit? yes we use ongrid boosting occasionally im unclear as to what your statement has to do with the soon to be (already almost) uncatchable off grid booster? you understand the dev has already implied its going to be nerfed yes?
I do understand that they will find measures against OGB.... that's what makes your suggestion even more stupid. then everyone would be ongrid and you would block link ships from using prop mods. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
99
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Posted - 2015.06.13 10:37:46 -
[1048] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Lurifax wrote:Slippery pete's online Slippery Pete's die to literally any other sniper with the same range. Their whole thing is that they have no tank, and don't need it.
And snipers might finally be viable again \o/ |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
99
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Posted - 2015.06.13 10:41:55 -
[1049] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:And you people think taking away fleet warps is going to make being one of 256 pilots more fun? Get real.
You assume many people care about such big blobs. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
99
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Posted - 2015.06.13 10:47:36 -
[1050] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Zappity wrote:Resa Moon wrote:Proposed changes to fleet warp are idiotic. Eve has enough tedium as is, don't present more. Ridiculous if you feel you have to FORCE players into engaging with the game. This is an interesting point. Changes which make people want to be engaged would surely be better. I wonder if CCP understands the appeal of blob warfare (I certainly don't but acknowledge that there must be something I'm missing). The appeal is in winning. The appeal is in not having to move out of your space. The appeal is in having a modicum of stability in an unstable and harsh universe. The cost is that the actual PVP element of the game becomes less engaging. It's kind of like that quote from Vietnam, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it." That's why I have always tried to balance it all out. I'll participate in large coalition fleets, click my PAP links, then get back to chilling on comms on gate camps, casual roams, exploration, or hunting ratters. The way I see it, large blob fleets are a necessary evil if you want to live in your own space and don't want to live in a WH. It's just part of the grind of Eve. To make it slightly less awful, I generally try to only fly capital ships or Interdictors. With the former you have a real asset at stake, with the latter, you get to be the hero or the goat. For me, I'll stay in my current corporation until all my friends finally quit Eve, then I'll either go find another hobby or give WH space a try.
a) sov war fare will be vastely different in july b) Most people dont want 1000vs1000 fights. not even CCP.
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