I cannot believe that the rather intelligent playerbase of EvE is so blind. Did all the F1-monkeyery make you stupid all of a sudden?
You, as many others, seem to miss the point.

Providing warpins is a very fun activity. Its get the heart pumping. Everyone is relying on you. Here you can show off your skills and make the warpin even closer and better (ofc at more risk).
But it is overshadowed by current fleetwarps in combination with probing. Its hardly needed currently.

With the changes, an interceptor or cloaky frigate will be a very valuable asset.
For a Pilot to help his fleet, he does not need to be able to sit in a MNI or Ishtar with perfect rekking-skills. Then he'll need low training time required, only 30mil for a a fitted fast ship and a little experience of manual piloting.
I dont say its easy, there is communication and other skills required. But Eve is hard. If its getting harder, well.... even better.
I am predicting, that Corporations are going to need more pilots and not only SP-heavy scanning alts.... And that, i believe, is a good thing for the health of a game.

Tactik for cloaky warpin: let the covops (fitted hyperspacial etc) warp to 10 of his target. as soon as he lands he calls that out and the fleet warps to 0km onto him. at that time, the enemy might be farther away, so bonus if they have speed. but then again, a wise interceptor pilot could help to predict that movement. Well, maybe even assault frigates will be useful again!

Let the paying noobs have a shiny day in a fleet too!!! (... and if he f*s up, its just a little frigate wreck more. not the end of the day.)

Except only being useful for being a scout gets old. we all came to this game to fight. Not sit and watch everything or hear about it on comms sitting on the far side of a wormhole.

being the scout when the fight turns into a 45 minute brawl on a wormhole needs more dps/logi not more scouts.

Except only being useful for being a scout gets old. we all came to this game to fight. Not sit and watch everything or hear about it on comms sitting on the far side of a wormhole. being the scout when the fight turns into a 45 minute brawl on a wormhole needs more dps/logi not more scouts.

Yet off grid boosters are a thing. We also have cyno ships, supercarrier pilots who spend 90% of their time sitting in the staging system waiting for a call that never comes and haulers who carry around POS and other structures. Being a scout is a lot more entertaining that all of those activities.



No probes means you dont have as much freedom to move around the battle which means you have less options.

We fought one of these shiny hole fight last night with Team Pizza, was good. as for moving around, everything was on the hole except for 5 ships orbiting at 50. you are not going to warp to that nor off the hole. being on the hole is a tactic that when you are about to die you go thru the hole. scouts were useless and there were none.

And in W-space, off grid boosters are not common as your fancy nullsec. we primary gank squads and on the occasion get to have a brawl. there were about 30 people total. no of grid boosts. instead they went for a carrier. Also I am yet to see a cyno ship in a wormhole. that is also a nullsec thing.

Im not saying scouts are utterly useless, I am saying that in w-space you get much more of the small group type content that btw is in all parts of EVE, not just w-space. and that scouts often are going home to reship into dps or logi in the case we find ex: 3 ratting gila's. you drop a bookmark close to them and go get a dictor, dps, and logi.

How fun is it to spend 15 minutes calculating your cruisers, logi, and battlecruisers so you know who needs to warp first, second, last so that the enemy does not alpha your smaller ships or logi before the whole fleet arrives?

How fun is it to have to wait for bookmarks to propagate when your target could leave at any moment?

How fun is it to have to trade bookmarks constantly in order to get things done 'efficiently'?

You can still fleet warp as you do now.



You dont wait for bookmarks, you wait a few seconds for a scout to ping.




Already happens, no change here.

How fun is it to spend 15 minutes calculating your cruisers, logi, and battlecruisers so you know who needs to warp first, second, last so that the enemy does not alpha your smaller ships or logi before the whole fleet arrives?

How fun is it to have to wait for bookmarks to propagate when your target could leave at any moment?

How fun is it to have to trade bookmarks constantly in order to get things done 'efficiently'?

Unlike you and what seems to be most people in eve, I dont have 2 accounts. I have 1 account. I am also a scout. many newbros dont have alt accounts either. so just sitting there all day does nothing. Also please keep in mind that in cases of ratting/gassing there are many things that will decloak you if you get too close. so sometimes the best you will get is 20-40 kilometers. hence why warping to bookmarks is important. you bookmark their gas cloud they are in/ you bookmark their MTU and warp to it when they go to scoop it. many tricks that we use these BM's for because we can't get close.

I also have a job and a life outside EVE, im never going to have a plex'd alt account nor intend to in the future. I see no reason to have an alt account and with this change most people will find them mandatory just for the sake of warp in.

And there is the problem that I have noted that you are ignoring, and that is that in many situations the scout cannot be on top of the target without being de-cloaked. Even with very fast scouts, you still have to keep in mind that de-cloaking with most likely end the element of surprise and possibly allow them to escape entirely. as I said earlier, bookmark their MTU or the can they are hacking or the cloud they are sitting in or the asteroid they are next to allows us to drop on top of them before they finish their site. or in the case of MTU's, drop on them when they have finished killing rats and before they can warp off.

Yes. You can only fleet warp to things that any member of your fleet could warp to, no matter what corp or alliances they are a part of.

so in future you leave a cloaked ship at the target and call for help. Seems to me that this change makes very little difference to you in WH.

I have one pvp account, I work 60-80 hours a week, I enjoy BBQs and going down the local as much as the next bloke and I have never plexed an account. None of these are valid excuses.

You could always ask your FC to fleetwarp you to the scout and not ahve to deal with calculating warp speed, waitign for BM or trading BM...

And there is the problem that I have noted that you are ignoring, and that is that in many situations the scout cannot be on top of the target without being de-cloaked. Even with very fast scouts, you still have to keep in mind that de-cloaking with most likely end the element of surprise and possibly allow them to escape entirely. as I said earlier, bookmark their MTU or the can they are hacking or the cloud they are sitting in or the asteroid they are next to allows us to drop on top of them before they finish their site. or in the case of MTU's, drop on them when they have finished killing rats and before they can warp off.

For clarification (and it may have been clarified already, I admit my eyes started swimming about page 10):

If every member of the fleet has the bookmark - either they're all a member of the same corporation, or you copy the corp bookmark to your cargo hold, hand it to a member of another corp, and they put it in as a corp bookmark - and repeat this process for every corp in the fleet so that everyone in the fleet is capable of warping to that bookmark - are you still unable to warp the fleet to this?

I understand the game balance issues you're looking at, and don't mind them at all in the context of battlefield management, but warping to a POS, anomaly, station insta-dock, etc - it seems a bit much to, in the name of increasing fleet member participation in actual activities, throw up more obstacles in the way of getting to the activities.

To say nothing of 'we have instantaneous superluminal communication across the entire EVE Cluster, but my ship can't transmit coordinates to the other guys 5km away from me even if I were able to read the 3 pairs of numbers off verbally on comms' aspect.

Just seems a little... silly.

For clarification (and it may have been clarified already, I admit my eyes started swimming about page 10):

If every member of the fleet has the bookmark - either they're all a member of the same corporation, or you copy the corp bookmark to your cargo hold, hand it to a member of another corp, and they put it in as a corp bookmark - and repeat this process for every corp in the fleet so that everyone in the fleet is capable of warping to that bookmark - are you still unable to warp the fleet to this?

I understand the game balance issues you're looking at, and don't mind them at all in the context of battlefield management, but warping to a POS, anomaly, station insta-dock, etc - it seems a bit much to, in the name of increasing fleet member participation in actual activities, throw up more obstacles in the way of getting to the activities.

To say nothing of 'we have instantaneous superluminal communication across the entire EVE Cluster, but my ship can't transmit coordinates to the other guys 5km away from me even if I were able to read the 3 pairs of numbers off verbally on comms' aspect.

Just seems a little... silly.

This nice article by Talvorian Dex, on Target Caller's blog, about the change got linked to in /r/eve an hour ago, so I thought it should be linked here for CCP to take notice of.

Good article, to the heart of the problem. These changes are been rushed and virtually no thought has been put of the impact. Its lets do X and screw everyone else. We are going back to 2007 and without taking into concideration other changes in game that has happened since then.

- if only you could fit tackling gear on a scout ship..
- if only you could warp cloaked tacklers with bonus tacklerange to your target...
- if only you could position your scout up to 100km behind your target, away from any decloaking stuff and warp your fleet at range so they land exactly at zero...


if only...

Except only being useful for being a scout gets old. we all came to this game to fight. Not sit and watch everything or hear about it on comms sitting on the far side of a wormhole. being the scout when the fight turns into a 45 minute brawl on a wormhole needs more dps/logi not more scouts.

A great point.

At best, it will be the extra alt the FC has been forced to make, unless s/he uses such an alt already.

At worst, it will be an otherwise active pilot being hamstrung into becoming a mobile bookmark instead of actually enjoying the game the way s/he wanted to.