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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Myfanwy Pisces Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:57:00 - [901] I've played EVE for well over three years and have seen all sorts of good and bad decisions get passed. Like many that have voiced their views before me on this thread, I've had my fair share of 'eve lows' and the one thing that has always brought me back to this game is the fact that my character will have progressed ever so slightly in my absence. I never found this gave me an advantage over other players or that I'd gotten anything for free as the eve universe does not stop spinning when I'm inactive so why should my character? Does Myfanwy Pisces not dream when she is in hibernation? She used to have the most wonderful dreams and could always take something from these 'experiences' and apply them to her life in the cold reality of space... To be honest I was really looking forwards to the direction that eve was taking what with Ambulations and Faction warfare as they all added to the game. Now I see they are merely replacing a void as this MMO slowly and discreetly changes form in the name of 'balance'. I don't advise you to reconsider this as I cannot see the bigger picture you seem to have your faces glued to. I do how ever beg you to reconsider this now that the players have had a chance to throw their comments at the brick wall you've presented them with. I have roughly eleven days left on my account. I will use this time to say farewell to the friends I've made in the corporations I've been involved with. Kinda weird saying this after ingnoring so many other whine threads & posts of other disgruntled players but then I guess every customer has their breaking point. Mine is here. CCP - Thanks for the time I've had and good luck.
Sagan	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:57:00 - [902] As an old player that has been here since 03 this change in my opinion is a very bad move. Ever since I started Eve I have worked a consistant work schedule of 3 weeks at work and 3 weeks at home. I have no access to Eve while I am away. The offline skill training was the selling point for me to start to play Eve. This is my first mmo and the only mmo that I play. But for people like me we will no longer be able to train a skill while we are away. For any reason, not just work. Hopfully CCp will come to their senses before this come into effect.
Ed Rush	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:58:00 - [903] Originally by: Wynteryth Fett Originally by: WrathofAchilles I'm quitting if you implement this. Shiesty. Deceitful. Plenty of honest games out there with good customer service. You know... the ones that actually give a damn if a customer leaves. How are they being deceitful? probably by trying to introduce that in a subtly manner. under the table so to speak. giving a low punch up on everyone. no warnings. just a blunt strike. you didn't even notice, except a lot of us noticed and reacted. @ fanfest: please do some punches back on them on my behalf! :D
Cory Trevor Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:58:00 - [904] Originally by: Annaphera I think the people that are whining about this need to get a grip. Please. Everyone saying that they are going to go to other games needs to stop and ask whether those other games are going to allow them to advance without paying for an account. If the answer is no, then stop acting like CCP is some kind of ogre for asking you to actually pay for a sub to advance your character. You still advance while you are offline, so what's the big issue? The big issue is it's been this way for years, it works nicely, and it encourages players to run (and pay for) multiple accounts by cutting a break whenever a really long skill needs to be trained. Now it's being taken away for no real reason, and to make matters worse, we're told it's a balance issue, which is one of the biggest loads of horseshit that's ever come from the devs (and that's saying something).
Fulber	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:58:00 - [905] Originally by: Wynteryth Fett Dude, if this was your business, how would you feel if you had 200,000 subscribers who paid their monthly fees and enjoyed the game the way it was meant to be played, but had 25,000 who used a loophole to get 3 months free? You'd feel like those 25,000 people were stealing from you and you'd do everything in your power to close that loophole. This is a pure business decision. Those of you who are complaining about it amaze me and make me wonder if you've ever run a business at all. Customer service is an issue with CCP. But if EVE shuts down because of cash flow problems at CCP from not collecting the proper amount on every account, then what would you say? You sure as hell wouldn't think it was your fault. You'd think it was CCPs. Yes, because ticking up a single number in the database for a fraction of the accounts has such a massive direct cost in manpower, consumables, overheads, maintenance and replacement parts. I see where you're coming from now.
The Stampede	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:58:00 - [906] What I'm seeing is actually a removal of a kind of "rest xp". (in WoW you gain a bonus to online xp gained while that character is offline proportional to the duration of the characters time offline) Now, it would be nice to, instead of removing Eves "rest xp", reverse it. The idea would be for each cycle(month) the account is subscribed, you gain a certain amount of "ghost training" time. Ex. Account A subscribes for 6 months, this allows for (cycleamount) ghost training time More Ex. I subscribe for 6 months, this gives me (62days) of ghost training time. With a cap of, say, 40 days or something, this would be fair and benefit everyone, as well as discourage 90 days of ghosting. Signature removed. Please resize to a mamimum of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator
Miriyaka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:59:00 - [907] Originally by: Annaphera I mean, really. A service company that expects you to PAY if you want to use their service. How shocking! Last I checked, you can't log into eve without an active subscription. So you're not using their goddamn service, and you're not costing them anything. You're not grinding elite purps or some such garbage while your character is unsubscribed, you're simply continuing to advance at the same slow rate limited by real time provided you had the prescience to set a long skill up before the subscription end ****ing ambushed you (would it really kill you guys to code in some in-game subscription info?). That's a feature that keeps people coming back for more, not something that allows people to get ahead or get free money or any such thing.
X3R0N Caldari Boys With Toys	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:59:00 - [908] Edited by: X3R0N on 13/10/2008 21:00:22 Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it. Sorry Wrangler, but you and the guys just failed at the customer support you've been so proud of since Beta. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain or even comment on this aspect of the game, it has just been there, as part of the game. The thing you are doing now would be like taking the Desert Eagle out of Counterstrike or taking the Warcraft out of "World of Warcraft" I mean it does sound stupid when you say "World of" don't you think ? As a lot of other people have already pointed out you are not going to gain money by doing this, on the contrary you will lose a large sum of your earnings as there will be a lot of players with no incentive to reactivate their accounts. Just think of having an account that goes inactive while training a skills such as advanced spaceship command V, this skills is actually a prereq for carrier, imagine having this skill only just started and then your account goes offline because you don't have any money to pay it ? or any other viable reason. Like I started out with, you just failed. Or maybe as we should say, you just Owned your own customers... I think I just felt the shaft in my ****
Mora Makur	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:59:00 - [909] Originally by: Sagan As an old player that has been here since 03 this change in my opinion is a very bad move. Ever since I started Eve I have worked a consistant work schedule of 3 weeks at work and 3 weeks at home. I have no access to Eve while I am away. The offline skill training was the selling point for me to start to play Eve. This is my first mmo and the only mmo that I play. But for people like me we will no longer be able to train a skill while we are away. For any reason, not just work. Hopfully CCp will come to their senses before this come into effect. Well you could keep your skill training while away, you'll just have to pay for it. Its up to you if that's worth it. Maybe a compromise where you get only 30 days of 'ghost training' would work.
Hammeroffire	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:59:00 - [910] Edited by: Hammeroffire on 13/10/2008 21:02:50 Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules. I'm looking at the [currently 31] pages of replies, and say this is one hell of a troll. -claps for him- /joke The problem with removing this advantage lies in the simple idea of the basics of corperations and the consumers. Corperations want to maximize their profits, Consumers want to maximize their utility. What you've just done, is decrease utility in order to make profit because some users were using this utility to make a profit. In reality what you've done, or plan to do, is make your game un-distinguishable from similar MMO's. That is, your Product/Service [good] is getting closer to being no different than that of other companies from this change. [if it doesn't make it less "utility filled" than similar MMO's or games] "Ghost Training", as you call it, Made this game different than all other games in that it allowed a character to take a break for "real life", and have a REAL incentive to come back to the game, aside from the game simply being there. This increases UTILITY. Some people took advantage of this, Sure, There are ways to fix that without breaking this utility of the game. In the words of Barack Obama, while an economist he's not, "You're taking a hatchet to something that needs a scalpel". As the PROFESSIONAL Economic Analyst and Chief Accountant of my corperation [I am a BEAN counter], I estimate that this will result in a net loss of profits due to, A. Lowered "new player" subscriptions B. Termination of all "Ghost" accounts that only pay 3 months of 6, or 6 months of 12 as your plan set out to do [good job with that, by the way, That is part of a scalpel meathod!] C. Loss of dedicated subscribers due to irritation. Also, a big factor in the utility of a SERVICE is "customer service", which could use improvement. As your company offers non-essential service in this time of great scarcity, I suggest you change your mind about this, and do more things along the lines of "scalpel" work. If you go through with this, I'm seriously going to sell the stocks I own in your company, Because I know it will result in a net LOSS of profit in the end.

Raquel Trotter Trotters Independent Trading	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 - [911] To all the people saying this a good thing with the argument "why should people play for free?" Nobody played for free with this, as their accounts would be inactive... I did this as due to RL commitment, I sometimes don't get to play eve for a month or more... Why should I pay somebody for a service that I do not use. Now after taking to a month off.. rather than immediately re-activating my account, to drool over the latest skill that I have trained, I will most likely say "meh" and never come back. As my character has lost a month of training and I will be that little bit further behind in skills than the rest of the player base, and even less motivation to play the game. All this does is to encourage people to stop playing eve in the long term, seems like a very short sighted greedy decision.
Ban Dwagon	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 - [912] Are you KIDDING ME?? "This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time an energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not." When you gain sp by just sitting there, you are not exactly putting energy into anything, and since you train even logged off, time is passively being invested to skill. This is BLATANT AND OBVIOUS GREED. Just like making timecards twice as expensive, CCP continues to milk whatever they can out of the community. There is no advantage to skilling passively. I'm angry.
Takarina	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 - [913] Originally by: Dal Deinvisu I'd live with 50% training speed while inactive, best of one worst worst of the other. I could live with that too unfortunately ccp is not imaginative enough to come up with a creative idea like that.
Keiko Kobayashi Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 - [914] Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. Of course, this is bullocks. The time-based skill system is EXACTLY there to make sure that people who are not hardcore players are still able to compete with people with No LifeÖ. IÆve not played EVE for several months, but my skills still continued training because I paid my monthly fee to CCP. This has nothing to do with game balance. DonÆt pretend this is not a financial decision. Either way, faulty argumentation aside, I donÆt care, as long as I will not get surprised after a week of not playing that my GTC has ran out and IÆve lost a week of training time.
CliveMerric	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 - [915] well ccp i hope your blog is good im off to work now, i hope the blog is up by then so i don't have to cancel my accounts when i get home hmmm wonder if this is really a trick to get us to stop whining about the speed nerf Clives BPC shop, Great deals!!
AntonioBanderas The Bastards	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 - [916] well, i thought of keeping it polite, but what the hell the amount of greedyness you bastards show is astonishing. You are simply sinking lower and lower. Disgusting. I was going to write about it more, but it wouldnt' matter so f-u-c-k that. Pathetic. and yeah, ban me. i dont'0 five a f-u-c-k __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And SHIT!!!! \o/
VLAD DRACU	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:01:00 - [917] 1000+ in local, node gonna crash and rollback this stupid nerf
Mallikan Gallente Plundering Penguins	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:02:00 - [918] Good idea. --- lol.. I messed up.
Hun Jakuza Naughty By Nature	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:02:00 - [919] Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube Edited by: WeightedCompanionCube on 13/10/2008 20:50:44 It's interesting to go back to http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866&page=1 the GTC change thread from May. Check some of the people who announced they were canceling their account(s) and try to see through killboards or forum posts what became of their firm intentions. So far all of them are still very much active. What do you talk about it ? See the different almost 10k member loss.
Konrad Wachsmann Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:02:00 - [920] So since it took about 30 pages for the first CCP response, will the next be at 60 pages? Did they really not think this through and think...gee a lot of people are going to have questions, be angered, want to know the reasoning and proof for this decision. But instead we're going to post a lie, write it off as a "fairness" issue then when the shitstorm hits we'll have the devs handle it so they take the flak. "unfairly affected by those few who have not" - OP If it's such a small few that do this why so sudden after the collapse of the economy in Iceland do we see this, we all know the reasons why CCP, what **es us all off is the lies, please man up and stop them. We're old enough to handle that the world isn't perfect and there are times when money is tight, don't ** us off further from an already pointless change to then make the reasons a lie. Yes in some strange sense it could be seen as "unfair" to characters who didn't utilize it, but that was their choice, therefore it isn't at all unfair they didn't use it, they just chose not to. Removing part one of what seperates you from other MMOs means part 2 is close, a removal of offline skill training and when that happens I'll say well I always knew. It is a shame CCP and you really should look at the bigger picture of what this change will do. If you do have some evidence by a 3rd party research firm and not just some accountant that doesn't consider human factors in his/her calculations, show us! Please do not lie or cover the reason, show the proof, be truthful, is it that hard?

Sinder Ohm Demonic Corp G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:02:00 - [921] This idea sux big time, people who take a break for a month or 2 and leave a long skill training wont come back
I m Minmatar BWR Gamers Legion of Honor	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:02:00 - [922] WE'LL START A REVOLUTION !!!!! CANCELING ALL OUR ACCOUNTS FFS ! _____ STEP UP NOW !
Aliedora	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:03:00 - [923] I'll be dropping two of my 3 accounts as soon as they run out. thanks a bunch, ccp.
Una D Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:03:00 - [924] Originally by: Annaphera I think the people that are whining about this need to get a grip. Please. Everyone saying that they are going to go to other games needs to stop and ask whether those other games are going to allow them to advance without paying for an account. If the answer is no, then stop acting like CCP is some kind of ogre for asking you to actually pay for a sub to advance your character. You still advance while you are offline, so what's the big issue? I mean, really. A service company that expects you to PAY if you want to use their service. How shocking! And in what game does it take such a ass long time to reach the end game? What do you think would be effect on WOW if getting to level 60 (or whatever is highest) took 1,5 years? The service company built up a system where this kind of thing is important as people burn out, don't have time, don't have mone, or something else. This was a way to get them to come back. Oh well the new competitors are arriving and hopefully some of them will look at EVE and how CCP killed it off and learn. After all it's survival of the fittest and not most short sighted one.
Troublexo	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:03:00 - [925] The next epic nerv wtf
NAM TRON HeartVenom Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:03:00 - [926] Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it. Its all about money and nothing more. At the technical level I assume its going to also cost you in terms of database processing time to check for expired accounts to stop the skill training at the time the subscription was expired since you will have to do that at an interval, say at least once per day, maybe even during down time. Or going to wait until they reactivate their accounts to then reset the skill training to where it was expired. You guys already stop API access on expired accounts and I guess this was your next move all along as an attempt to grab more money from the player base. I can tell you right now this isn't going to work. The second I read the announcement I knew you guys were doomed to failure and you will see a sharp decrease in cash flow with in the next couple of months, and by then it would be too late to undo the damage. Cause once damage has been done it is permanent, not correctable by any means. Bye CCP, it wasn't nice knowing you.
Bytad	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:04:00 - [927] Bad move, very bad... CCP:(we are making them pay more..., but revenue is falling, oww we need an economist to analyse this)
Miriyaka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:04:00 - [928] Originally by: CliveMerric well ccp i hope your blog is good im off to work now, i hope the blog is up by then so i don't have to cancel my accounts when i get home hmmm wonder if this is really a trick to get us to stop whining about the speed nerf It does seem that way. Combined with the crap about 'balance' in the OP, it would seem they don't have a very high opinion of our memory, intelligence, or willingness to fight with our wallets for what we want in this game. Well buddy, I got news for you. I'm one stubborn mother****er.
asdlkf	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:04:00 - [929] 1000 posts in under 6 hours. seriously CCP. this is wrong.
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:04:00 - [930] Astounding how many players think this will effect them if theyre not logged on........ C. Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.



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