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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:02:00 -
[1]
A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Idara
Caldari Failure Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:12:00 -
[2]
Oh jesus.
Here we go. --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first
in EVE - Idara |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:13:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 13/10/2008 16:14:00 I really don't understand why there's such a strong need to change this now.
Besides, how are you being any less active at improving your character than someone with an active account? All you can do is set a single long skill training, and that requires just as much activity on your part whether you're subscribed or not. --- DIY copying in Liekuri 20:1 mineral compression Eve Online folding@home team |
Kappas.
Galaxy Punks
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I really don't understand why there's such a strong need to change this now.
There isn't. __________________
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Avalira
Caldari Tau Ceti Green Card Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:14:00 -
[5]
money money money...
------------- Selling the following:
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Retmas
Gallente Serial Number Inventors Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:15:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Retmas on 13/10/2008 16:15:09 Edited by: Retmas on 13/10/2008 16:14:50 drat, second. -edit- okay, fifth..
if you're going to take it out, at least tell us the real reason. it's not 'the balance', it's that you want us to pay while we wait for the 30-50 day battleship V skills go through, not to mention the capital ship skills, or pretty much any other month-or-more skill. there isnt a thing we can do about it, other than stomp our collective feet, but the least you can do is not lie to us.
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slip66
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:15:00 -
[7]
:/ this is going to keep people who takes breaks from returning...
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Feng Schui
Minmatar Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:16:00 -
[8]
They realized they royally ****ed up with GTC's, and don't want to reverse their decision? thus.. making it mandatory to pay to train.
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Nemeziskee
Caldari Nefantar Tribe The Wrong Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:16:00 -
[9]
Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
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Retmas
Gallente Serial Number Inventors Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
quoted for f-king truth.
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Idara
Caldari Failure Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
No they can't make skilling easier... --- Failure Corp [FAILD] - Failing to fail first
in EVE - Idara |
Plave Okice
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:17:00 -
[12]
Business in "trying to make money" shocker!
Don't see a problem with it, always thought it was a strange decision to allow training on unsubbed accounts. If you want to train, pay.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:17:00 -
[13]
Meh, but the good thing is that all my inactive acounts are about to finish their 40-60 day skills within a few days so... But still meh. Since now basicly there's not even a reason to reactivate the account to start a skilltraining, this change imo will render more inactive accounts than it was before...
Secure 3rd party service ■ Veldspar |
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Tomoe Heth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:18:00 -
[14]
Why not delete characters who's accounts become inactive? That will really force the players to keep their subscriptions active!
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Radio Bemba
Serenity and Unicum Empire Corp The Wrong Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:18:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Radio Bemba on 13/10/2008 16:19:47 Sounds nice (or not?)
Anyway, you'll get some enemies.
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Karbowiak
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:22:00 -
[16]
stupidity is strong in this one !
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Dr NOe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tomoe Heth Why not delete characters who's accounts become inactive? That will really force the players to keep their subscriptions active!
What a great idea. I hope you dont get Sent anywhere that youll have to be gone for any leanth of time. Maybe A Hospiktal. Active service in the Military or Anything. because when ya came back your acct would be gone and youd have to start all over. then youd be crying your little babyblues over it.
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Ultimator
Minmatar Constructive Influence
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
Please try to explain this a bit better. How are people actually putting their energy and time into clicking on a skill? Since skills train automatically without any actual practice.
I believe if this will be implemented, EVE will not just lose a lot of players but a unique feature which made it attractive among other MMO's.
As most of the times, now you fail again to give a satisfactory argument, why you change something what everyone liked in this game. Why don't you just say that you need more money?
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C Black
Gallente BLACK CARTEL
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chribba Meh, but the good thing is that all my inactive acounts are about to finish their 40-60 day skills within a few days so... But still meh. Since now basicly there's not even a reason to reactivate the account to start a skilltraining, this change imo will render more inactive accounts than it was before...
You have to do some DUMB crap to have Chribba say that you are doing some DUMB crap. And i really would hate to you see you screw the pooch so bad with this one as well.
C Black... Looking for old friends of WISHSONG corp... |
Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:23:00 -
[20]
A lot of people will be unhappy, but I can't say I'm surprised this change has come. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
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Sallera Zephyr
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:24:00 -
[21]
Has anyone ever actually felt "unfairly affected" by people who do this? I may not do it myself, but this certainly looks like a completely pointless change. Not going to benefit you or the players.
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Aeronith
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:24:00 -
[22]
Well at least this should divert peoples' efforts away from complaining about the horrible speed nerf.
Well played!
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JafoPBCFR
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:25:00 -
[23]
Ok great. Now make the skill times less that way when you hit the 30-90 day training you dont want to cancel while you train. WOW that would make sense wouldnt it? Nahhh It would remove that TIMESINK wouldnt it.
I have liked CCP and there decisions in the past this is the first one that say HI WERE JUST LIKE ANY OTHER GAME COMPANY THAT IS FULL OF MORONS!
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TheAdj
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:25:00 -
[24]
Man you guys sure are piling on the shitty changes lately. So after next patch it'll cost me 500-600m per GTC, I can't let accounts dark train, and half the ships I enjoy flying will be pulse apoc food. Fantastic. ----------------
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Retmas
Gallente Serial Number Inventors Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Aeronith Well at least this should divert peoples' efforts away from complaining about the horrible speed nerf.
Well played!
-facepalm-
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:26:00 -
[26]
I don't particularly mind this change. (I do know a person who buys "cheap" characters and just trains up the "pesky lvl5 skills" with account breaks, re-selling the character as a "fully-trained mothership pilot" - he makes quite some ISK with that. I don't think it's a good feature.)
I do have two problems with this change, though.
The first one is that there is basically no warning at all that your game time is about to expire. From one day to the next, it goes "account expired." It would be highly annoying to find out that you weren't training your skill for 1-2 days because you didn't log in yesterday. Please add a reminder "your game time is running out in 7 days" or so when you log in.
The other is that you will lose more players that way. I know quite a few people who were in an "eve low" and let their accounts expire. They set up a long skill, and at some point they thought "oh, my skill's done, let's check back", reactivating their accounts. "EVE lows" are very common, they come and go, and this was one way to "bridge" them.
But as I said, I personally do not mind the change. Just PLEASE tell me in advance when my account is about to expire. ;-)
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Mirida
Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:30:00 -
[27]
This is not much needed this is bullshit. You definitely should reconsider this change.
If you really want to get players to get rewarded enable all characters on one account to be able to train at the same time if their account is active. ___________________
EVE Development Network <Lead Developer> |
JJ McHawker
BazCo
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
Ironically, when I first scanned the subject of the news item, I thought that it was a skill queue they were adding. Of course, if they had both it would be madness - open an account, queue up everything required for some uberl33t role (i.e. capital pilot, super sniper, etc.) and park it for a year. Imagine the horror of Chinese Pilot Farmers.
So, maybe this is one step closer to getting some kind of queueing mechanism?
JJ
/ Has just had some training downtime because I forgot to put another skill on before I went to bed last night. // Has an Alt currently ghost training (tho only a 2 week skill).
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Tomoe Heth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:31:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Tomoe Heth on 13/10/2008 16:31:40
Originally by: Sallera Zephyr Has anyone ever actually felt "unfairly affected" by people who do this? I may not do it myself, but this certainly looks like a completely pointless change. Not going to benefit you or the players.
Yes. CCPs accountant feels unfairly affected.
"They should be happy we let them gain skills while not logged in! How many games do that?"
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Antihrist Pripravnik
Gallente The 13th Gallentean Armed Response
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:31:00 -
[30]
I just hope you'll send an e-mail (or something) to non-active players. This is not a pleasant surprise for many players.
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Amarr Holymight
Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:32:00 -
[31]
Does this mean CCP will be reintroducing 30D GTCs and now can we have a skill queue?
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Elana Mosavani
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:33:00 -
[32]
"iceland economy tanked, send dollars tia"
But honestly here, while I have not done so, I know many people that set long skills when an account lapses for good reasons, and the fact that the skill finishes gives them cause to come back to the game. Players that get called up for action to serve their country and can't access EVE oversees, players that know the RL is going to bog them down for the next few months; there are many reasons for letting a subscription lapse, and the fact that the skill still is in training makes them more likely to come back and play.
Think this thru a bit. If you want to put a halt to something while they're unsubbed, halt the R&D points they get.
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Alt 666
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:33:00 -
[33]
What about research agents and research points on inactive accounts? |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:35:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 13/10/2008 16:35:20
---
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Alex Salas
BROTHERHOOD OF SPARTA Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:35:00 -
[35]
Originally by: CCP Fallout capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
As mentioned earlier give us skill queue. Why should capsuleers that for 40+ hours a week be "unfairly affected" by people who do not work and have time to take care of their characters?
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CowsCANBark
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:35:00 -
[36]
btw the csm brought up skill que to the devs and they said they were thinking about it. Why the shit do we not have a skill que if they were thinking about it, but now we have this? It's already bad enough you can give yourself bad attributes, or lose skill training because you are podded. Fix the bad stuff first.
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Tomoe Heth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight Does this mean CCP will be reintroducing 30D GTCs and now can we have a skill queue?
Of course not. But they will soon remove the ability to see how many people who are on, for performance reasons of course. And subscription prices will be adjusted. Upwards.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:37:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Alt 666 What about research agents and research points on inactive accounts?
^^^This is what should be killed. Ghost training... not so much. I could see even putting inactive accounts at 50% sp gain but I think killing Ghost training all together is simply going to create a horrid backlash for Eve itself. It is, after all, a feature unique to Eve and Eve alone.
To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean. |
Retmas
Gallente Serial Number Inventors Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:37:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Retmas on 13/10/2008 16:40:49 a couple ideas got tossed out that i kinda like in place of ghost training, so i'm putting them out there (yes, i'm putting it in quotes, all you English majors with your MLA format can go to hell)
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
Originally by: Mirida If you really want to get players to get rewarded enable all characters on one account to be able to train at the same time if their account is active.
not saying both need to be implemented, but if you're going to screw with the fundamentals of the game, replace what you take out.
-edit- figures, right as i post, someone else posts something cool. props to shar.
Originally by: Shar Tegral Ghost training... not so much. I could see even putting inactive accounts at 50% sp gain but I think killing Ghost training all together is simply going to create a horrid backlash for Eve itself.
It is, after all, a feature unique to Eve and Eve alone.[/justify]
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Capacitor Fluffer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:37:00 -
[40]
This is by far the worst thing you guys to do to your wallet. You do realize that the 2-3 alt accounts people run so they can play your game (as it has evolved to the point where it's almost impossible to play EVE with just one account)are now going to be dropped and in the end you'll be making less money right?
Because that's the issue. CCP we're not fooled into thinking you suddenly care about upsetting "capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters", which is stupid to say anyway, given the work you need to skill up consists of paying money and waiting. You have proceeded on a campaign to wring more money from your player base and this is just another step towards that.
Again as a company you show your utter lack of understanding towards your own player base. Your continued stupidity will just lose you more money with this decision. Find me the groups of players that take issue with the ability to take a break and not be set back by it. They don't exist.
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Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:38:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Admiral Frools on 13/10/2008 16:40:37 Edited by: Admiral Frools on 13/10/2008 16:40:09 I'm sure all these many hundreds of thousands of accounts abusing this terrible ghost training are ruining the game for all those honourable, hard working customers you have who would NEVER think of ghost training
Next time I can't buy a GTC because paypal tell me to get ****ed, I'll just forget to resub my accounts... I mean it's not training anything anymore so its no big deal just not resubbing right?
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/84/scroogemcduckbydanitasojd9.png
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Brador
Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:39:00 -
[42]
I tend to agree that this change will reduce the number of returning players when they take a break. I personally have used this in the past to keep myself interested in this game when it gets monotonous - set a skill when my account expires and stop thinking about it for a while. When I'm ready to come back, I knew there would be something new and interesting waiting for me.
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Wirox Crotikus
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:39:00 -
[43]
I hate this! Its just crap, when u are training FC 5 or Titan skills! It takes between 40 to 80 days, thats 2-4 months of training and eve time... Its a NO GO from me....
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Zikka
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:39:00 -
[44]
Much needed? Why?
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Euriti
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:40:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 13/10/2008 16:36:16 http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/84/scroogemcduckbydanitasojd9.png
Moderation snypa :shocker:
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Cras'h
Hulks on stereoids inc
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:40:00 -
[46]
nerf nerf and even more nerf .. i think you did "fallout" of your bed when you decided that this was a god idea
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Vanakov Mek'lanavar
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:40:00 -
[47]
I will be getting rid of three accounts because of this change. With the AUD dropping against the USD nearly 30% its just not worth it too keep them all active at once.... $54 AUD for 60 days is daylight robbery compared to say WoW $31 AUD for 60 days.
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Fastercart
Gallente Ihatalo Heavy Industries Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:42:00 -
[48]
Another comment. Why is this announced just after CCP's recent Power of 2 offer? It would have been fairer to announce this before or during the offer. __ Rorqual AKA Mega Maid
Oh, my God. It's Mega Maid. She's gone from suck to blow. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:43:00 -
[49]
Originally by: slip66 :/ this is going to keep people who takes breaks from returning...
Its a lag reduction method
Also, will this mean characters which are unsubscribed right now will have their training halted on wednesday, or will it only apply to accounts which unsubscribe from wednesday onwards? -----------
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:43:00 -
[50]
As I've been saying for the longest time, if I weren't paying for this awful game with isk, I would have quit long ago. You're making it easier and easier for me to find something better to do with my hobby time. ---
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Cilia Sundara
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:43:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Cilia Sundara on 13/10/2008 16:43:07 http://www.jrbooksonline.com/jew-bwa-ha-ha.gif
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Johncrab
Minmatar Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:43:00 -
[52]
This is the lamest move ever. Ty CCP for showing us your true face. Greedy bastards! |
roflc0pters
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:45:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Fastercart Another comment. Why is this announced just after CCP's recent Power of 2 offer? It would have been fairer to announce this before or during the offer.
They already suckered you into paying for another account so why bother?
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DeadRow
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:47:00 -
[54]
I see no reason for its removal personally, though I do agree with the stopping of Research Points. Ghost Training encourages people to come back imo.
Norrin Ellis > What?! Boobs aren't inappropriate! They feed children! For God's sake, think of the children!
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Willie Lowman
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:47:00 -
[55]
Well, with this change I'll be quitting entirely, not reactivating every so often just in case I get the motivation to play so I can switch training.
This move is going to cost you a lot of accounts.
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The Dribber
Amarr Black Screen of Death HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:47:00 -
[56]
Credit Crunch! LOL!
------------------------ The DribbLer ...yes, I typo'd my own name...
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Johncrab
Minmatar Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:47:00 -
[57]
Originally by: CCP Fallout ... This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not...
I never took a break for close to 4 years, still find this the lamest excuse ever. What unfair advantage???
Damn shame, doing something with the only goal of gaining more money and then not even having the balls to admit it |
jitasucks
The Peoples Republic of Uganda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:47:00 -
[58]
http://thegluareport.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/scrooge.jpg
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Kathryn Dougans
Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:48:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik The first one is that there is basically no warning at all that your game time is about to expire. From one day to the next, it goes "account expired." It would be highly annoying to find out that you weren't training your skill for 1-2 days because you didn't log in yesterday. Please add a reminder "your game time is running out in 7 days" or so when you log in.
On a couple occasions, I've been informed while ingame, that my subscription has run out and been disconnected a few seconds later. This is when it's been set to auto-renew. So now, as well as being booted, it would also stop whatever skill was training at the time?
It's a trivial thing to lose the handful of SP in that case, but what happens when someone has a subscription set to auto-renew and a long skill running, and is away when the due date falls, and it doesn't work?
Don't ask me about the cows. |
Celicia Warren
Gallente R.H. Umbrella Corporation FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:48:00 -
[60]
To be honest guys,
i dont think you really have realized what you are doing to yourself and your wallet with this planned change.
The ghost training is one of the points why many players play this game, it was possible to step back for a few weeks and having , for example, a diploma exercise.
Then they came back and saw, that they still did advantages. No need to mention that many of the older players have multiple accounts, and at this point you can be sure many of them will not be reactivated.
Come, be so kind and say the truth, its all about making more money, and nothing else...
You should be aware of that you cut yourself in your own meat with this planned step, and , indeed in your wallet.
You will loose more money that you think now you could earn with that..
Im deeply disappointed if this will happen, and you wil, from my point of view, loose at least 1 account.
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:49:00 -
[61]
Ghost training has been happening since before I started to play the game. I remember the first time I quit EVE, I trained up caldari frigate V "just in case I wanted to come back".
I wonder how many people are going to quit, not be able to train a skill, and then just forget about the game, since they aren't progressing and have no reason to reactivate. ---
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Falaricae
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:50:00 -
[62]
No to very few capsuleers care if other people ghost train. This change on it's own seems like an attempt to grab more money, if we don't get a skill queue. People only suggested it in the first place as a possible solution to the problems that a limited skill queue might cause. So please just say if this is part of the plan to implement the skill queue or a money grab. Don't hide behind excuses.
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BogWopit
Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:50:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Mirida
If you really want to get players to get rewarded enable all characters on one account to be able to train at the same time if their account is active.
This on so many levels. If you are gonna remove ghost training, there has to be some give. Having it all ends out is just going to annoy people.
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commander k27
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:50:00 -
[64]
I totally disagree with this change. Having ghost training is a great incentive for players to return and resub after having that long skill training over the summer holidays. What is better than coming back to Eve then with BS V done, it's like a little gift to the players. Very disagreeable change. http://www.waz.ca |
Galliana Foresta
Gallente Fleeting Moments of Insanity
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:51:00 -
[65]
Glad I cancelled my second account tbh.
Just curious as to why CCP open this up for discussion when they clearly have no intention of changing their minds about it.
HIRING|KB|PRESS
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:51:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kathryn Dougans On a couple occasions, I've been informed while ingame, that my subscription has run out and been disconnected a few seconds later. This is when it's been set to auto-renew. So now, as well as being booted, it would also stop whatever skill was training at the time?
It's a trivial thing to lose the handful of SP in that case, but what happens when someone has a subscription set to auto-renew and a long skill running, and is away when the due date falls, and it doesn't work?
Considering it's failure on CCP's part, the playtime should be adjusted to if it were auto-renewing and the skilltime reimbursed.
Won't happen though, will royally screw you over.
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midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:52:00 -
[67]
Money Grab, tbh nothing more... nothing less
so how much did you lose in your icelandic bank savings?
are we expected to refund this? -----------------------------------------------
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Tomoe Heth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:52:00 -
[68]
Eve - Online New Game^H^H^H^HTraining Experience!
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T'Renn
The Illuminati.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:53:00 -
[69]
The fact that you guys didn't think this through and how much revenue you're going to actually lose from this change is frightening. This is coming from someone who has never let their accounts lapse - you guys are really screwing over loyal customers. It's a transparent money grab. You've shown that you care very little about the loyal customers who have stuck with your buggy game for years and want more of the quick, easy (chinese isk farmer) cash. Nice job. On second thought, you probably shouldn't have slept through that micro economics course after all. --
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Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:53:00 -
[70]
money money money money money
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Karjala Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:54:00 -
[71]
I think this is a good thing. I've had short breaks myself but I think this will be a good thing in long term. I can see there's several problems with being able to train while inactive since you can have multiple accounts etc.
I can also imagine this will annoy people who've been kind of "farming" characters or have more than 1-2 accounts etc.
At the end I think it's still fair deal that you pay for the time your character is training.
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Tajidan
Somalia Warlords Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:54:00 -
[72]
i attempted to write something constructive here three times. it seems i'm not able to.
Was it causing lag?
http://www.eve-gfx.com |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 16:55:00 -
[73]
someone make a graph with the max number of players on a given sunday for the last 18 months and over-lay it with the dates in which CCP made unpopular changes ktia ---
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Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:01:00 -
[74]
Cash rules everything around me
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GO MaZ
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:01:00 -
[75]
C.R.E.A.M get the money ---
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:01:00 -
[76]
Nelson voice: "HAHA!!!"
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:02:00 -
[77]
Think further for a moment.
SKILL QUEUE. ---
Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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Darkireland
Caldari Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:02:00 -
[78]
MOAR
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Blind D'Runk
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:03:00 -
[79]
The question is, how many people actually let account payments slip while training those rank 8-14 skills? Complaining is a bit like complaining wow wont let you log in to grind because you haven't paid, but why should you pay as you are only macro grinding XP not actually playing the game.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.....
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Iraf Thaiberd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:04:00 -
[80]
It's like you're trying to kill the game.
You already vastly increased the price of playing the game, creating pressure towards training skills on lapsed accounts amongst multiple-account players.
Now you're punishing the players that are responding the the changes in the market that you created.
What happens when you do this?
People consolidate accounts and you lose overall revenue.
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:05:00 -
[81]
Quote:
This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
And people who emo rage quitted after an encounter with your wonderful customer support, that were lured back to the game at the prospect of new toys after the long skill they set quitting was over, won't come back at all...
You got me back a few time like that, now next time I'm gone, I'm gone for good. Then your customer support can magically improve and stop actively driving people out of the game...
If it's a a strategic move to make the population younger on average and getting rid for good of the finger pointing, server stressing (due to your stupidly designed endgame), older population, well I predict a smashing success...
Well something had to be done, the server can't handle the population, time to get rid of the population.
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Rhyothyn
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:05:00 -
[82]
I am completely against this change.
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:05:00 -
[83]
People are looking for the best value for their dollar, especially now. Why the hell are they going to pay for this shitty game when CCP keep taking the feature away that make the game unique?
Sure, I love paying above-average MMO prices for a game that's continuously becoming just like all the others, except where it really matters: cost. ---
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Jenina Hawke
Minmatar Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:05:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
This, tbfh.
Also, while I am sad to not get 56 days of free training for one of my mains, I am... well, feeling less guilty about the amount of free training time I have gotten.
Jen ***** No signature is good enough *****
DGAF Newbie Guide
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arbiter reformed
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:06:00 -
[85]
so ok i wont have any more than two accounts. you do realise ccp that most ppl that do this do it on there 3rd,4th 7th account. you will loose money from alot of ppl i know. you should be activly encouraging ppl to buy extra accounts not dicorage. if your going to do this make power of two permenent? and upset the ballance of the game? have i missed out on somthing. can som1 pls tell me how being active in watching industial 5 train will make it take less time. watching a fuking kettle ccp
Signature removed as it was stretching the forums. Navigator |
Bald Rikk
The Legendary Fleet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:06:00 -
[86]
This stinks Please can someone from CCP explain the REAL reason for this change as it has sod all to do with balance ofr fairness. -- Baldrikk
Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
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fiber0pti
the united
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:06:00 -
[87]
pure and simple greed Please resize signature to the maxim allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Spyra Gryra
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:07:00 -
[88]
struckura
CR-SE old timer. AKA "the dude"
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Kara Gillquria
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:07:00 -
[89]
Terrible idea... terribe. Granted, there are few who abuse the system, but using this approach will hurt more ppl by restricting it...
One thing off my head is, its unfair to the newer players vs the older ones, who mostly took at least 1 month break off eve at some point, to train battleship skill to lvl5 while inactive...
Now newer players have no choise but to train it actively while playing... not to mention those who are tired of eve, and do something new while taking a break, and want to come back to try something new.. wont come back (Capital ships 5 - titans, anyone?)
I hope you come to your senses, or rot in hell
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Mogren
CCCP INC
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:08:00 -
[90]
A sudden implementation of a terrible idea. Who hires people at CCP?
CCP will gain some money from those who are actively "ghost training", but will lose much more from other current customers. All of those customers who pop back in from time to time will be lost due to this ******ed and sudden change.
Obviously CCP has lost their quality gaming roots and have completely lost touch with the game they created. Its a shame. Businessmen are very poor at making decisions that relate to maintaining a good game, and the employees hired to "balance" the game have been failing much more than the stock market as of late.
Hire some new people who are actually creative, fair, and who work for the benefit of the game, and then and only then will threads like this matter. Until then, EVE will continue to be a failure cascade of poor in game and out of game design decisions that it has been as of late.
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Nuala Reece
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:08:00 -
[91]
Little more information please? Or a link to where the info is if it's already out there.
Why is it much needed - what gains are expected from this change (to CCP, Eve and the players) balanced against what downsides?
How does it upset the game balance? I can't say I'm aware of ever feeling adversely affected by the fact that someone else can train a character in the exact same way that I can, but does so without accruing assets, LP, reputation or friends.
What constitutes an inactive account and what action will be taken to inform players in a timely way that their account is about to be considered inactive?
I'm pretty sure my account will be seen as inactive as I haven't logged in for some time (been taking one of those 'putting rl first' breaks that are so common) but I've no idea when that's likely to happen again if I log in on Wednesday to show face and start a new skill off.
I'm not saying I'm for or against this change at the moment as I'd like to know the reasons why it's considered necessary. At the moment the OP seems like the equivalent of saying 'from Wednesday all underwear will be blue, this is a much needed and overdue change'. Context makes all the difference and I'd like some please. Meanwhile, I'm off to change my pants. Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:09:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Gneeznow money money money money money
$_$
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Wootang
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:10:00 -
[93]
omg this has nothing at all to do with balancing -.- all about money money money for ccp...
indeed there is really no need to change this!!!
i totally agree to those who say it will prevent ppl who need breaks from returning to the game...
well ccp this is one of the º$%&//"$ changes...
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Kai Dorfman
SkillzKillz United For 0rder
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:10:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 13/10/2008 16:20:50 Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 13/10/2008 16:18:14 I really don't understand why there's such a strong need to change this now.
Besides, how are you being any less active at improving your character than someone with an active account? All you can do is set a single long skill training, and that requires just as much activity on your part whether you're subscribed or not. This is a poor choice of justification.
As others have suggested, this might actually have a negative net impact on your total income, as people leaving the game will no longer have the option to leave a skill going in case they decide to return later; they won't have something new to come back to.
I fully Agree with this guy, What about the people who skill up 2-3 chars to eventually sell them for isk on the Forums? I for one currently run 3 accounts and 1 of them is going inactive on the 27th oct, i was planning to skill and sell this char that i started from scratch earlier this year, instead i will keep it inactive. Ive been beaten with CCP's Pain Stick twice this year i cant afford to run all 3 accounts 24/7/12 and secondly its a Sepcialized minmitar Claymore pilot (horrible speed nurf), please beat me some more with your Pain Stick CCP.
Can CCP name one player thats complained? I dont think so. this is just them wanting more money. Fair enough i suppose but im sure this will have a negative effect.
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fiber0pti
the united
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:10:00 -
[95]
MONEY Please resize signature to the maxim allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Seldarine
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:10:00 -
[96]
The GTC changes were bad enough to justify, this is just pure money grabbing.
I cant believe they dare to show the disrespect of pretending its to do with in-game balance. ______________________________
Seldarine
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Bob Niac
Gallente Kahi Mohala Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:12:00 -
[97]
this is ebil....
But seriously .. cant we have a buffer? like a week's time?
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midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:13:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Seldarine The GTC changes were bad enough to justify, this is just pure money grabbing.
I cant believe they dare to show the disrespect of pretending its to do with in-game balance.
this tbfh -----------------------------------------------
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Morgen StMichael
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:13:00 -
[99]
I've quit eve 3 times now, once after a run in with customer service that just terminally ****ed me off. Two of those breaks, I've 'abused' Ghost training. Each time, the thought that I now had a long training time skill to 5 was a real factor in deciding to return to Eve. It probably was the deciding factor in at least one case.
This change is ill-thought out, and will likely cause more harm than good. Kudos for announcing it, and not just sliding it in, hoping it would go unnoticed. How many gaming companies would do that, eh?
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Calishere
Caldari The Space BorderLine
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:14:00 -
[100]
well another nerf at the wrong time. what's really funny is they also end up putting this just a few days b4 it actually happens... seems like they dont wanna hear our opinion on the matter lol and just get it over with
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stadshage
Caldari Monkey Universe Corporation Monkey Religion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:14:00 -
[101]
good idea peaple sould pay for playing and pay for training
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Demitrios
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:14:00 -
[102]
It takes like 20 years to get all the skills .why whould you change it? I can honestly say that alot of clients will not return if u make the change
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Bane Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:14:00 -
[103]
I don't think this will improve anything. An incentive for people to return after taking a break is that they now may have a new skill to come back to. There's nothing sinister about it, people just burn out from time to time. |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:14:00 -
[104]
In other news, CCP would see an enormous 1-time surge of cash from character transfers if they also announced that pre-existing alt characters (ONLY!) would all be able to train simultaneously on a current account. //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
MercenaryAI
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:15:00 -
[105]
This idea is full of fail. Ghost skill training has NO effect on active players, so why do you tell us this bullsh*t about 'unfairly affected' and game balance? Why not just admit that this change is implemented to try and get more income from players? Lying to your playerbase does NOT make the situation better, only worse.
On a side note, players DO need skill queque, much more than this 'much needed change'.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:15:00 -
[106]
next change from ccp is your skills stop training when you go offline Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:16:00 -
[107]
we're making the game more expensive for your good
we're destroying entire gameplay styles for your good
we're making the game even more expensive, for your good
it's all for you, the player. we swear. it has nothing to do with our glorious golden vision or our bloated bottom line.
how full of shit can this company possibly be? this is hilariously bad.
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Heomos Ricedi
Russian SOBR
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:17:00 -
[108]
Originally by: SiJira next change from ccp is your skills stop training when you go offline
+1 |
MacDuncan
Minmatar Asgard Schiffswerften Ev0ke
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:17:00 -
[109]
Edited by: MacDuncan on 13/10/2008 17:16:55 After the recent GTC-changes this is a terrible descision imho... -- Might As well Train Another Race |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:17:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Verite Rendition
A lot of people will be unhappy, but I can't say I'm surprised this change has come. At first glance, I also can't say that I see any kind of problem with this change, it seems fair enough.
It is fair, or at least not unfair, and completely their decision to make. What CCP seems to completely underestimate is the number of people this "unfair feature" made come back. I quit a few times myself, usually after having petition handled by (badly) trained chimps, and also after the T20 incident (Or maybe after the way less publicized mothership for tournament vegeta/CCP Lemonde incident).
What got me back each time is a long skill training ending. And I'm far from alone in this case. If this is a move for getting rid of the more resource taxing older players it's a master move. The promise their new code shown have been proved not working already, so maybe it's a move to thin the population to get a technical grip on the server.
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Ilda Mrika
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:17:00 -
[111]
Never expected CCP to be this hypocritical... game balance... oh dear
Well, I had 2 accounts. Only one will be left in 12 days. Not reactivating the second account, selling the main on that account and be done with it.
One account bites the dust, a few k more to come? I'm sure of it. |
Tennents Supra
eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:18:00 -
[112]
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
What?
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:20:00 -
[113]
The strange thing is I keep all my accounts active while training so it's negligable impact on me.
But I'm disgusted on principle at the way you are pretending it's to balance the game and not divulging the real reason.
So -1 account. It won't make you go bust, you'll still get money on my other 2, but if enough of us do it, you might think twice before pulling a stunt like this again.
And in the off chance this is all prelude to some change we are going to love...fire your PR guys, they are lousy.
Yak
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:21:00 -
[114]
This change is most definitely dildos. ---------------------------------------
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FalconHawk
Amarr Shadow Rebellion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:21:00 -
[115]
Edited by: FalconHawk on 13/10/2008 17:25:33
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.forum rules.
wondering why they are unfairly affected ... the only party that is "unfairly affected" is CCP¦s bank account money makes the world go around, looks like CCP realised that too now and tries to press as much out of their customers as they can, first GTC change for a 60 day industry standard, now ghost training change cause it¦s "unfair"... you guys should stop lying to yourself with this more than stupid "reasons" u use to enforce such stupid changes.
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tamlyn
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:21:00 -
[116]
This was seen coming for years, yes its a money making idea. Not surprised or fazed in the slightest, however, a skill queue WOULD be nice.
I go for year long trips from eve and a skill queue would do me WONDERS. I'm left behind when I come back so I want that addition so I am not given another step to climb over.
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:21:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Kery Syander on 13/10/2008 17:22:45 wow, this is pretty crazy. As someone who ran quite a few accounts for around 2 years and recently decided to take a bit of a break from eve, I can definitely say this kind of move will almost certainly push me to sell all my characters. I can only assume that the amount of RMT that goes on in eve will increase with this move. I really don't see anyone taking the occasional much needed breaks from eve, instead they will probably just quit for good.
CCP, is Paulson running your financial department now?
edit: and the line about rewarding effort put directly into eve is ridiculous given GTC sales, etc. I think I would be hardpressed to come up with a stupider/more hypocritical move by CCP. -----
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SaleanDS
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:22:00 -
[118]
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
Yeah I know I've spent a lot of time and serious effort into watching the skill bar increase.
This game is horrible, why should anyone bother playing it anymore with how ccp manages it
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:22:00 -
[119]
In other news, the population count on Tranquility hasn't been over 40k in over a month, and for perhaps much longer (hard to tell on these graphs). //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Xavier Zyrae
Demonic Retribution G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:23:00 -
[120]
Bad change! I agree with what the playerbase has been commenting over the previous 5 pages... _________________________________________________________
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Darkireland
Caldari Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:23:00 -
[121]
Might be that they are doing this to roll out skill queing and dont want people abuseing the system to que up 2 30 day skills while inactive i suppose.
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DTson Gauur
Caldari Underground-Operators
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:23:00 -
[122]
Has anyone noticed that all these changes affecting CCP's cashflow started AFTER they hired that economist... Welcome to corporate world run on quarterly reports, reap what you sow...
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Jogvan
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:23:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Jogvan on 13/10/2008 17:29:47 This change is re-tarded, and I'm sure you will lose more money then you gain (which is obviously why you do this. STOP LYING TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!). First changing so you can only buy 60d GTC's and now this. As other have said already, it will only stop people who are on break to return.
Edit: -1 account here
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Killah Bunnie
Amarr CCCP INC
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:25:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Triksterism This change is most definitely dildos.
I hereby support this description
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Deadly Hobbitses
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:25:00 -
[125]
CCP Fallout, since there seems to be a little bit of rabblerabble brewing here, could you please confirm the following suspicion...
The removal of Ghost Training paves the way for a new feature in the next expansion: Skill Training Queue
Given a skill queue would be unbalanced in favor of people who like to do all of their long skill trains without paying for them, it does make some sense, whereas a random ninja-nerf does not.
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fiber0pti
the united
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:26:00 -
[126]
CCP Failboat more like Please resize signature to the maxim allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:26:00 -
[127]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
You, my good sir, are about as intelligent as a sack of hammers.
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Fandanguero
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:26:00 -
[128]
I hope, it for The Greater Good!
Iyanden craftworld |
Cali Serrano
Baptism oF Fire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:27:00 -
[129]
I don't post much but this definitly deserves something. I've got 4 accounts, with one generally cycled down every 3 months or so for a long skill train (30 days+), one is down now in fact. As of now I'm thinking about canceling one of the other three and taking it down to just 2. And with the inactives no longer training the will not be reactivated. Might make on an alt of the other account .. then the accounts will definitly not come back. Balance? Sure whatever.
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Seeshin Shoogai
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:27:00 -
[130]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change
i'm just like WTF? thats one of the cheapest excuses i've ever seen from CCP.
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:28:00 -
[131]
BOOOOOOOOOO.
Already hard enough to pay 35 bucks for a 60 day GTC and now this? CCP, you are not Blizzard, so bring your prices down, and re-instate Ghost Training.
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Tomoe Heth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:28:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Dianeces
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change
You, my good sir, are about as intelligent as a sack of hammers.
What have sacks of hammers ever done to you, that you feel the need to insult them so?
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Lori Verkutya
Caldari The Lavatory Cleaners
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:29:00 -
[133]
you can youknowhat my youknowwhat. --
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Aquemini Amarr
Amarr coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:30:00 -
[134]
I've got 3 accounts. I (used to) sub them for a month and let a long skill train. This meant that I usually only had 1 or 2 accounts active at any one time. So I guess I've abused this system. Whats going to happen after this is that instead of CCP getting 3 60day subs over the course of 3-4 months, I'll be consolidating to 1 or 2 accounts. CCP will be getting less money out of me from this change.
My main point is CCP are fcking clueless these days. Why has this never been implemented in all the years of EVE? I remember Keiron and Oevuer seriously considering it, but something stopped them. How about, instead of giving a bullshit generic "unbalanced" explanation, give a straight talking explanation of why you are doing it. At the very least you'll earn what very little respect I still hold for CCP.
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Altaree
Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:30:00 -
[135]
I wonder if this is a hint that skill queue's are coming soon. That to me would be the only good reason for this change.
Blue Sky |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:30:00 -
[136]
Hey CCP, you tried to remove this in 2005 during the release of Dragon patch. People revolted, you backtracked.
Said it was only for EVE China since they pay-by-the-hour or some shit, and that it wouldn't come here. Yet, here we go again.
If you're going to do a money grab, then do it and be honest about it. Your rationale is just plain wrong.
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:30:00 -
[137]
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
HOLD ON ONE SECOND IMMA GONNA GO BUY $500 WORTH OF GTCs. GUD THING THIS DOESN'T AFFECT THE 'FAIRNESS' OF EVE.
CCP, i think you need to get a new weed dealer.. this lysol-laced stuff is gonna just keep killing brain-cells... -----
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Brinstead
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:30:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Bob Niac this is ebil....
But seriously .. cant we have a buffer? like a week's time?
Two days ought to be enough for anybody! much like 640k..
I think I just realized what this is - some MBA or a consulting company (McKinsey, etc) came in and made a powerpoint presentation on how much money CCP was leaving on the table with GTC's that cost the same as a subscription, unsubscribed training... guessing next thing on the chopping block is multiple characters per account.
Word of advice from someone who has been there and done that - these types of MBA's / Consultants never factor in customer satisfaction in their calculations, and while they work well for an essential utility (electric, phone (to some extent), etc) they don't work well at all for an economic luxury like what CCP provides, especially not in an economic climate like the one we have today.
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Mad Mackem
E X O D U S
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:30:00 -
[139]
Well that's me going down to one account,
Good work
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Ted Raald
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:30:00 -
[140]
Finally, CCP have found a way to beat LAG! get rid of 75% of its subscriber base......
Have you ever thought about opening a bank?
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Akyr
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:30:00 -
[141]
Originally by: SiJira next change from ccp is your skills stop training when you go offline
Coming next to your game¬
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Di Ferguson
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:32:00 -
[142]
GG CCP
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TheAdj
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:32:00 -
[143]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
So you drew the short straw to have to be the poor bastard to post this right? With a name like that it's almost like this is a troll (most of eve hopes this is a troll, what a ****ing awful idea this really is). ----------------
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Demitrios
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:32:00 -
[144]
Ive always considered EVE the working mans game. Unlike world of warcraft where u have to be a bum living at your parents playing 14 hours aday. There are alot of folks that love eve cause of this. when your to busy with your family or work, school, out of the country etc, you know your guy is still training a 50 day skill. Not everyone allows ccp to dip into their visa or mastercard everymonth.
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Little help
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:32:00 -
[145]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change ... This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
A nice example where greed actually makes you loose money.
But, tbh, I am thankful, this will make it easier to quit the game for good. And reclaim my time that would have been spent on staring at a black login screen.
So, please do implement this much needed feature.
BTW, who wants my stuff? (only giving it to old rich chars, otherwise it might upset the game balance)
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Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:33:00 -
[146]
total thumbs down on this, even though I keep 2 accounts running, even with the ridiculous spike in GTC's since the change to 60's, just one more reason to shut down an account or quit EvE all together.
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Malverious Prime
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:34:00 -
[147]
I'll have you stuff...
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:34:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Ted Raald Finally, CCP have found a way to beat LAG! get rid of 75% of its subscriber base......
Have you ever thought about opening a bank?
CCP was heavily invested in WaMu.... hence the sudden need for MOAR MONEY!!!! -----
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Planning Committee
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:34:00 -
[149]
That's a terrible, terrible idea to announce a couple of weeks before fanfest.
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Legutko Mongler
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:34:00 -
[150]
This is a terrible idea, I pay month by month one month at a time carefully making sure the longer skills go in between my payments. Taking breaks from the game helps reduce the zzz factor by a lot. now I have to play it constantly?
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Pbs
Pumpkin Scissors
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:35:00 -
[151]
Тупо. Очень тупо. Это тема не по поводу "озабоченности вопросами геймплея" или "нечестного отношения к другим игрокам". Просто ССР становятся жадными до безобразия. Не хотят оффлайн-прокачки - значит не хотят чтобы народ имел кучу альтов. Надеюсь, им это обратно по башке бумерангом и вернется.
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Holy Cheater
Brute Force Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:35:00 -
[152]
Making game more expensive? Does it mean you will fire Python programmers and hire someone else?
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Gerome Doutrande
Rue Morgue
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:36:00 -
[153]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
The next time when you decide to lie to your customers, at least spent some time and imagination on coming up with a decent quality lie next time please. Thanks in advance.
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Theo Samaritan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:36:00 -
[154]
From what I gather this change was probably finally put in place for many factors:
> It should lower character farming for isk, which has actually become quite a problem. > It gives balance to the game, why the hell should you gain experience when you are not playing anyway? > It may lower GTC isk costs eventually as less people will be buying.
I don't see why people moan. CCP will be loosing more money than they are gaining for this, and to be honest ignoring the character farmers how many people will be effected that much in the grand playerbase i.e. more than just the forums.
And before people go l2p or call me a noob or whatever, I have been playing for five years, only missing out a single month when finances disallowed me. |
marshal123
BLACK DRAGONS CORPERATION
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:36:00 -
[155]
Poor show CCP this has nothing to to do with what you are claiming, so why dont you go on and admit it your trying to get more money thats its plain and simple.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:36:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Dianeces on 13/10/2008 17:38:07 Best. Move. Ever.
****ing over your subscriber base is a great way to make a successful MMO, c/d?
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VLAD DRACU
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:36:00 -
[157]
so ccp you say this is a step toward your player community... amazing!
as said above you can stop training also when offline, that would be a rightful justice delivered for those who put their time and energy into playing the game instead of going to work or sleeping.
but who cares anyway as the fanfest is coming, this minor issue's gonna be washed away by the glamour, all the shiny, lasercraft and photo contest and stuff and all the mesmerized players will go open another 50 accounts after that.
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fiber0pti
the united
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:36:00 -
[158]
Im sure ccp must have lost a ton in the dodgy icelandic banks and has now decided the fanbase can bail them out
Please resize signature to the maxim allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Chomin H'ak
The Trivenerate
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:36:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Chomin H''ak on 13/10/2008 17:37:08 Rediculous...
Please see last 6 pages reflecting this (minus the 2 posts (who are CCP alts...))
The Fail is strong in this administration.
Edit: had to change page length to 6
Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
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CptEagle
Gallente Genius Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:38:00 -
[160]
The knowledge of a long skill being complete works as a motivation to come back to to game after not playing a while.
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Tunnas
Delusions 0f Grandeur G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:39:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Tunnas on 13/10/2008 17:38:59 Oh well i'm guessing i'm reducing my accounts from 4 to 2... 2 where perma running and the other two where running when needed, so basicly running 3 at all times, ccp say goodbye to free cash for you.... Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
QuarlSWE
Minmatar Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:39:00 -
[162]
Seriously considering quitting eve now, I'm better off playing a hack'n'slash XP gaining game.
/me protest against this change!
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Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:40:00 -
[163]
Seeing as everyone is gonna EMORAGEQUIT, can I have all your stuff?
A Pirates Perspective
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Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:40:00 -
[164]
Originally by: SiJira next change from ccp is your skills stop training when you go offline
Nono, your skill stops training when you go ONLINE.
Network load and servers are what cost CCP money. The ideal customer is one who pays but never logs on.
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Tomoe Heth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:40:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Planning Committee That's a terrible, terrible idea to announce a couple of weeks before fanfest.
Hopefully they'll get an earful at fanfest.
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:40:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Pbs Тупо. Очень тупо. Это тема не по поводу "озабоченности вопросами геймплея" или "нечестного отношения к другим игрокам". Просто ССР становятся жадными до безобразия. Не хотят оффлайн-прокачки - значит не хотят чтобы народ имел кучу альтов. Надеюсь, им это обратно по башке бумерангом и вернется.
I'm not gonna bother run this through babelfish because I already have a pretty good idea of what he's saying despite not knowing a word of russian
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Incubus
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:42:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Tomoe Heth
Originally by: Planning Committee That's a terrible, terrible idea to announce a couple of weeks before fanfest.
Hopefully they'll get an earful at fanfest.
Fistful more like
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Anathema Matou
Moonmaiden Ltd. Avateas Blessed
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:42:00 -
[168]
First you effectively tripple GTC/ISK prices, and now you top it off with preventing us from at least bridging the 30 days difference between 60/90 with a long skill training. Great way to go.
Originally by: Chribba Since now basicly there's not even a reason to reactivate the account to start a skilltraining, this change imo will render more inactive accounts than it was before...
QFT.
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thelung187
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:43:00 -
[169]
Edited by: thelung187 on 13/10/2008 17:43:24
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
It would be nice if, after 6 pages, at least someone from CCP would respond to the arguments being made here. I don't think it's asking too much to say "Hey, this is the logic we are working with here: <insert logic>", versus decreeing "thou shalt not" and then just leaving it to the public to continually post without any sort of subsequent communication.
We pay your bills; it's not unreasonable for us to ask for you to respond to us in some way.
[ 2005.05.19 22:54:23 ] InnerDrive > only solution safespot till you leave or mine in empire till you leave or s |
Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:43:00 -
[170]
Wow. Well done CCP. Preventing people from coming back to your game must really padd that bottom line. How about you start using someone with brains for your economy planing instead of next quartal long term blind economists? There must be some people around who understand about this strange concept of long term.
With the whole economy in the gutter you are making the game more expensive to play. A freaking game!!! In what universe do you think that a game falls under necessary thing that people will suck it up? It's not food, it's fun but it's quite easy to entertain yourself in other cheaper ways.
I guess that you will change your mind once the bottom line gets hit. Might be too late but I guess you really want that vampire MMO so killing off eve is probably planed anyway.
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Cadinie
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:43:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Cadinie on 13/10/2008 17:44:25 Nice work CCP. Your ability to do the opposite of what your player base tells you continues to amaze me. If you just said "We want more cash out of you" then I could respect the honesty. Hiding behind some bullshit excuse that this patch is in some way "for my own good" really just proves how out of touch everyone at CCP, especially the DEV Team, is.
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Brinstead
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:44:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Theo Samaritan From what I gather this change was probably finally put in place for many factors:
> It should lower character farming for isk, which has actually become quite a problem. > It gives balance to the game, why the hell should you gain experience when you are not playing anyway? > It may lower GTC isk costs eventually as less people will be buying.
I don't see why people moan. CCP will be loosing more money than they are gaining for this, and to be honest ignoring the character farmers how many people will be effected that much in the grand playerbase i.e. more than just the forums.
And before people go l2p or call me a noob or whatever, I have been playing for five years, only missing out a single month when finances disallowed me.
Exactally - you've been playing for five years and have a boatload of SP. Chances are that there's not much you can't do, not many ships that you can't fly. Try telling a new player that he's going to have to wait three years to pilot a capital ship and see just what they have to say..
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Princess Crocodile
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:44:00 -
[173]
i don't see why people moan either, unless they have 5 chars training to be sold or something. it's the CCP head accountant who should be moaning as he\she is about to see some major revenue drop. and with the speed nerf coming also and even more people leaving because of it... are we witnessing a hostile takeover from within or what?
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:45:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Kane Rizzel Seeing as everyone is gonna EMORAGEQUIT, can I have all your stuff?
**** off kane and let us whine. :p Not everyone is as rich as you are (lucky hauler kills FTW :p )
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Kallaran
Amarr Duty.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:45:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Tunnas Edited by: Tunnas on 13/10/2008 17:38:59 Oh well i'm guessing i'm reducing my accounts from 4 to 2... 2 where perma running and the other two where running when needed, so basicly running 3 at all times, ccp say goodbye to free cash for you....
i will be doing the same, but CCP seem to have missed the fact that the only reason myself came back to eve from a long break was i knew my skill would have been done that was enough to reactivate my account and then i got hooked again. when i get bored of eve next time what will pull me back?
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:45:00 -
[176]
I just realized, this is probably going to cost you as much money as it recovers.
A huge part of the reason many people get a third or fourth account is because they don't need to have all of them active at the same time, and you're not paying as much money while they skill up to be useful. Now you hit diminishing returns sooner, and all those multi-account *****s will rethink things.
At the same time, people who take a break from the game were more compelled to come back when they know they haven't been penalized for it. Now people who take a break are going to have their avatar affinity taken down a notch or two.
In the past I enjoyed playing another "main" in another corp, knowing this main wasn't getting hurt as a result of my temporary deviance. I've trained up 3-4 characters from scratch because it this made things easier. I'm down to one account from a max of three or four, but I always thought that option was still open to me in the future. I don't think that's the case anymore.
CCP, you don't "get" EVE anymore.
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:52:00 -
[177]
IMHO, well overdue. If you don't pay then why should you benefit as though you do play? if you are going to be offline a while then either pay and set a long skill, or just accept that you aren't playing and look forward to when you can again.
:: applauds ::
My principles
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Aiko Intaki
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:52:00 -
[178]
As a beneficiary of unsubscribed BS V training on multiple characters, I support this!
... if we're going to see skill queues implemented in the near future, and if we're going to see NPC data core production pause on unsubscribing as well.
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Zudge
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:52:00 -
[179]
A good hearty **** you to CCP, I will consolidate all my characters on one account and the next time I burn out I have even less of an incentive to resubscribe.
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Lucia Warbler
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:52:00 -
[180]
Holy crap, what a terrible timing your announcement had! You should watch the news sometimes.
And also against this..."patch". I liked the fact that when I returned from my summer holidays, I would have a new toy to use. And I have returned, always, but now...? I seriously don't know. All I could probably think would be how much time I had wasted since my account wasn't training. Forget the skill queue, forget training on multiple characters at the same time, just keep ghost training for the greater good, and for the sake of your own wallets.
Another point of view; how is this fair for newer players? Old players have been ghost training for 5 years and they don't get to do it at all.
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Clay101
Caldari M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Clay101 on 13/10/2008 17:53:00 edit: removed The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out! |
Theo Samaritan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Brinstead
Originally by: Theo Samaritan From what I gather this change was probably finally put in place for many factors:
> It should lower character farming for isk, which has actually become quite a problem. > It gives balance to the game, why the hell should you gain experience when you are not playing anyway? > It may lower GTC isk costs eventually as less people will be buying.
I don't see why people moan. CCP will be loosing more money than they are gaining for this, and to be honest ignoring the character farmers how many people will be effected that much in the grand playerbase i.e. more than just the forums.
And before people go l2p or call me a noob or whatever, I have been playing for five years, only missing out a single month when finances disallowed me.
Exactally - you've been playing for five years and have a boatload of SP. Chances are that there's not much you can't do, not many ships that you can't fly. Try telling a new player that he's going to have to wait three years to pilot a capital ship and see just what they have to say..
I would tell them to suck it up and pay for it, as I said I only missed a single month, even then it caught me out of the blue and I didn't have anything training. And I don't pay by isk either.
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Itzena
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Noghri ViR Did CCP ever think
Nope.
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Jaraelia
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 -
[184]
/me waits for CCP to announce "Power of 4" promotion
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Nemiron
Amarr Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 -
[185]
It is logical (and, as CCP stated - fair) to not let characters advance if the account is not payed.
Training your character while the account is in an inactive state was more or less "free game time" from CCP to us. And now everyone feels entiteled to getting free stuff? Yeah, that's how it works.
CCP making money? Oh noes!!1111one
We all had fun and advantages while it lasted. (I did it as well, mind you)
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 -
[186]
This will go down in history as the Great Alt-Nerf of 2008.
First you give us a great deal to start another character, then you kick us in the balls.
Good work CCP.
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Clay101
Caldari M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Clay101 on 13/10/2008 17:53:51 CCP, this is the most bullshit excuse you have used to date to make more money. In all honesty, I'm fine with the change, but be honest with your community. I have put up with your bullshit for the last 5 years and I'm tired of it. Be honest with us, we know the truth anyway.
In NO way does it "upset the balance" for people to "ghost train". It's the same thing for me to train a 30 day skill on an alt and then not log that character in except that you get paid if I keep that character up to date on subscription time.
Why don't you fix something worthwhile instead of trying to grab every last penny you can from your users?
Clay101 The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out! |
Ai Fuu
Gallente New Dawn Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 -
[188]
A very very bad idea, "upsets the balance of the game" , it will(does) more likely upset the players.
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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 -
[189]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist I just realized, this is probably going to cost you as much money as it recovers.
A huge part of the reason many people get a third or fourth account is because they don't need to have all of them active at the same time, and you're not paying as much money while they skill up to be useful. Now you hit diminishing returns sooner, and all those multi-account *****s will rethink things.
At the same time, people who take a break from the game were more compelled to come back when they know they haven't been penalized for it. Now people who take a break are going to have their avatar affinity taken down a notch or two.
In the past I enjoyed playing another "main" in another corp, knowing this main wasn't getting hurt as a result of my temporary deviance. I've trained up 3-4 characters from scratch because it this made things easier. I'm down to one account from a max of three or four, but I always thought that option was still open to me in the future. I don't think that's the case anymore.
CCP, you don't "get" EVE anymore.
what he sayd also what chribba sayd chalck a soon reactivated account as one that will come out that lovely feature that distinguished this game from other ones also it sort of balanced the fact out that skill training isnt realy training its just an extreme amount of time ticking down
whats the next absolutly needed feature gona be stoping skilltraining when you logg out ?
seriously CCP please spend time thinking about what makes people happy i think that should fill your pockets more efficiently than with things **** people off
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RedSplat
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 -
[190]
Edited by: RedSplat on 13/10/2008 17:55:12 Oh good, another change to the game that benefits players and doesnt contribute to lining ccp's pocket.
On the other hand i bought WAR recently and that seems to have a competent team of developers that listen to player feedback.
Bye EVE
Edit: was this anounced and/or put to the community AT ALL before today?
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:54:00 -
[191]
The fact that the skill training is done in Real Time totally defeats the purpose of nerfing Ghost Training.
If this was WoW or PW, it would be ok, Level up by killing mobs, but the fact I have to pay $60 dollars to finish Battleship Lvl 5 is redonKYlous!
This is a videogame CCP, we play to escape reality.
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:54:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Alz Shado on 13/10/2008 17:55:22
Originally by: VLAD DRACU Exactally - you've been playing for five years and have a boatload of SP. Chances are that there's not much you can't do, not many ships that you can't fly. Try telling a new player that he's going to have to wait three years to pilot a capital ship and see just what they have to say..
this
This? Really? This is actively promoting the ebayization of capital accounts, which should justifiably be banned if detected.
A new player isn't going to have the kind of scratch to 'trade' in the forums for a cap pilot account, nor would they have the mental acuity to use one properly. Tell the new player that by the time they can afford to trade for a capital alt, they'll hopefully have the experience to fly one without embarassing their alliance.
//// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Nuala Reece
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:55:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Miriyaka
Originally by: Pbs Тупо. Очень тупо. Это тема не по поводу "озабоченности вопросами геймплея" или "нечестного отношения к другим игрокам". Просто ССР становятся жадными до безобразия. Не хотят оффлайн-прокачки - значит не хотят чтобы народ имел кучу альтов. Надеюсь, им это обратно по башке бумерангом и вернется.
I'm not gonna bother run this through babelfish because I already have a pretty good idea of what he's saying despite not knowing a word of russian
Pretty much - a summary of babel fish's mangled translation is:
Dumb/Silly. Not about gameplay. CCP greedy; disgrace. I hope, by them this conversely on the head by boomerang will return. Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:56:00 -
[194]
Originally by: EyeCeeYou I'm surprised there's so much hatred over this. Seems pretty sensible to me - if you want to "play" (and that includes training), you gotta pay.
How about we change skill training to require clicking something every minute or so to get SP? Let's not do it in a half-assed way.
Quote:
Why would anyone expect that they could say "oh hey look, I've got 30 days for my BS-5 training, I'll unsub and just resub after a month ..." And why would anyone expect a company to say "hey, its ok, stop paying, just come back after you get that skill you want ...."
Because companies actually want people to come back and if the player thinks he doesn't like the game enough to keep playing while training BS5, then removing the incentive to come back at all is a bad idea.
Quote:
??? Greed is certainly at play here but I'm not sure it's CCP's ...
No it must be the players who have been doing it for 5 years before CCP "noticed".
Really, it's probably the large number of cancelled subscriptions these days and CCP trying a desperate move to counter that.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Kyguard
Forged from Fire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:01:00 -
[195]
Very bad idea, a lot of people who quit the game have the chance to come back because their accounts are still training.. you can't remove this and become more similar with other games because eve doesn't have an active skill training. -
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Conq Er
Sweetrock Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:01:00 -
[196]
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Toshiro GreyHawk
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 18:01:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 13/10/2008 18:04:19
^^^^^^^^^^ [Edit: LOL!!! Ha! Ha! No one's going to read anything I say after that! They'll still be to busy laughing!]
OK ...
First off, all my accounts are active and always have been.
However ...
What you (CCP) have just done is **** away a gigantic chunk of player good will.
I was just telling my brother the other day that you didn't even cut people's training off when their subscriptions lapsed. Ooops.
You see, allowing things like that made you look like you weren't like all the other game companies who existed solely to **** their customers.
Now you look like all those other game companies.
And of course - in joining the other game companies - you lie to us about why you are doing it.
No one believes you are doing this to protect the balance of the game and those who "actively put their time and energy into working on their characters". No one.
You're doing this to try to make those people who are canceling their subscriptions so they can save some money while that character trains a long skill pay more money.
That's not going to happen. They'll just cancel the accounts.
The economy is in the tank and people just don't have the money to maintain more accounts than they are maintaining now.
Money wise - it isn't going to make any difference either. For everyone who brings an account back on line, there will be one who quits. So you aren't actually going to help yourselves there.
All you've done is **** away some good will. Nothing more.
Faction Schools Orbiting vs. Kiting |
Cynosural Girl
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:01:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Ultimator
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
Please try to explain this a bit better. How are people actually putting their energy and time into clicking on a skill? Since skills train automatically without any actual practice.
I believe if this will be implemented, EVE will not just lose a lot of players but a unique feature which made it attractive among other MMO's.
As most of the times, now you fail again to give a satisfactory argument, why you change something what everyone liked in this game. Why don't you just say that you need more money?
agreed about the more money issue. besides their codebase must be nearing it's end so they're prolly trying to get the last money out of it. :D
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:02:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Digital Solaris
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Because companies actually want people to come back and if the player thinks he doesn't like the game enough to keep playing while training BS5, then removing the incentive to come back at all is a bad idea.
So name one MMO developer that lets your character progress while your account is frozen then?
Every current MMO that lets you progress in real time instead of with grinding does this. Still.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:03:00 -
[200]
Oh ffs! All this bleating that some of you have been caught out doing what anywhere else would be termed taking advantage (or even cheating!)
[i]"The ghost training is one of the points why many players play this game"{/i]
Er .. news for you. If someone is 'ghost training' then THEY AREN'T PLAYING THE GAME! Self evident!
All this arguing about people saying they'll take their accounts away? Good! They aren't actually playing with the accounts so nobody will miss them, right? Speaking as someone who has *always* seen this as an inherent unfairness in the Eve system - that people could get something for nothing - I'm very pleased it is ending.
TANSTAAFL!
My principles
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Snarker
Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:03:00 -
[201]
What the hell, nice work CCP, you just lost tons of subscribers. ----------------------------------------
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:03:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Hertford This is a pretty big gamble. You're hoping that out of all of the accounts that ghost train at about half-price, more than half of them will become fully paid. Yes, you stand to gain if more than half sub fulltime, but you're setting up for a decrease in subs if less than half pay up.
If you wanted more money, you'd have way more success by doing something like allowing people to double-pay for a given period, during which time they train skills twice as fast. If no-one bites on that, you lose nothing. If some people bite, you gain. No gamble involved.
I don't think that's the idea - they just want to make the subscription cancelling that is going on these days to hurt more.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:03:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Black Cumin This is an unnecessary nerf. This "ghost training" affects all players the same way. There is no advantage or reason for doing this, and it is a very good feature to have in game. Since it affects everyone the same way, everyone can count on being able to do this when they decide for whatever reason to do this. By taking this out of the game you: 1) Give all old players, 5 years and older, a huge advantage of being able to do this. All new characters will not be able to.
Indeed, new players now will be gimped for eternity now! Now that is unfair to New subscribers, which means potential money for YOU CCP!
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Tau Dades
Caldari Electrostatik
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:03:00 -
[204]
This is a great idea, but it could be better. When your account goes inactive, in addition to not training, all your clones should lose their implants! Also, characters should be fined a large percentage of their total assets while inactive. That way, if they ever decide to come back they won't have squat. This is brilliant, because then they will have to buy GTC to get all their precious iskies back!!!!!1111
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Loike
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:03:00 -
[205]
not happy
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Dr 0wnage
The Dark Tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:04:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
Amen to this! I never really understood why training continued when ac****s went inactive anyway. If you want to train, pay... its not that difficult. Now we just need a queue to help us better manage the accounts we ARE paying for. |
jitasucks
The Peoples Republic of Uganda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:04:00 -
[207]
Originally by: EyeCeeYou I'm surprised there's so much hatred over this. Seems pretty sensible to me - if you want to "play" (and that includes training), you gotta pay.
Why would anyone expect that they could say "oh hey look, I've got 30 days for my BS-5 training, I'll unsub and just resub after a month ..." And why would anyone expect a company to say "hey, its ok, stop paying, just come back after you get that skill you want ...."
??? Greed is certainly at play here but I'm not sure it's CCP's ...
Except it's not playing, you cant login, you cant post on forums, you cant do SHIT except come back to a slightly more skilled character IF you decide to come back. You STILL have to resub every couple of months if you want to keep training.
If I didn't know any better (the fact that CCP has about as much direction as a compass in a bowl of magnets), I'd say this was to do with iceland going down the shitter; quick guys, grab every little penny you can with your jewhands before it all goes **** up
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goodnight
Sleeper Technology Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:04:00 -
[208]
omg. how much will i be able to stand. the nano nerf, the new gtcs, now this. will you ever bring something to cheer me up?
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Sen Black
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:05:00 -
[209]
I play not so often. So, I will freeze one of my two accounts. Or I will completly quit eve.
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Sinam Khirr
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:05:00 -
[210]
that pretty much was one of the best things about this mmo - even if i had no time to play (or money to pay) i could just wait a little and my char was better (!). that was a good or even a VERY good reason to re-subscribe, return to the game.
I believe it would have been better to make a reason for players to return even after brakes rather than show them that it's just another mmo. as long as you're active you get the benefits. When will it become SP gain only when logged in or SP gain only on things you actively use... :(
very sad and kinda dissapointed Sinam Khirr
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Altholonas Kynslayer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:05:00 -
[211]
well, there goes my three accounts, bye eve, it was fun but seriously y'all messed up big time.
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Kuranta
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:05:00 -
[212]
Originally by: The ECKI i don't understand this, whats unfair by finishing a skill whats running while im not online and paying? shure you dont get money from me at this moment, but i also can say i dont realy need this and this account and just forget them. and i think many of the guys here know how damn stupid it is to sit weeks or month and just stupid watch your skills raising. in this time i pay an other account.
i would agree with cutting down sp gain while inactive, but can i have 50% more skillpoints while paying and not logged in, cause im not producing more lag?
As you said: you get stuff (skillpoints) without paying. Not fair for CCP.
Sure, CCP will lose alt accounts, but I'm sure they figured that one.
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Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:06:00 -
[213]
Is this going to affect characters that are already unsubbed?
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
Seriya
Caldari The Priory
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:07:00 -
[214]
I find the current layout of the Dev Blog page to be an extremely insulting attempt to bury this topic:
CERTIFICATES!!! (less than a page of responses)
NODES!!! (four pages of responses in a week)
WALKING IN STATIONS!!! (four pages of responses in two weeks)
Then on the right hand side, consoderably less promenantly:
New Chronicle!! (Does anyone actually read these?)
Then in small print:
Ghost Training to be Removed (NINE pages of respones in two HOURS.)
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Mortis Aguila
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:07:00 -
[215]
Based on the level of response to this topic, I estimate this: Ghost training turned off 15 Oct, Eve servers turned off 30 November due to in-game economic crash and CCP wallet empty.
Another pat on the back for the bean counters. ------------------------------------------- REALITY.DAT not found. Rebooting the universe. |
RichThugster
Gallente Invicta.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:07:00 -
[216]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. SINCE WE DONT GET PAID FOR IT, IT SHOULDNT HAPPEN, BUT LET'S BLAME BALANCING
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:07:00 -
[217]
If you're looking to make it easy for me never to resub an alt, and less likely to resub a main, well done. I'm not one to make idle 'cancel my account' threats- never did when the cheating allegations came out, never have with the ridiculous lag and lack of responsiveness from your company. I don't even mean it as a threat...just probably won't resubscribe without one of the major unique factors of the game that allows a casual player to enjoy their time.
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Digital Solaris
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:07:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Every current MMO that lets you progress in real time instead of with grinding does this. Still.
Like World of Warcraft or any other MMO that is built on time invested => virtual reward?
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Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:07:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
All this arguing about people saying they'll take their accounts away? Good! They aren't actually playing with the accounts so nobody will miss them, right? Speaking as someone who has *always* seen this as an inherent unfairness in the Eve system - that people could get something for nothing - I'm very pleased it is ending.
Ooh yeah its so unfair, let me just sell another 500 gtc's and buy myself a titan totally legally and TOTALLY FAIRLY (of course).
But let me train my skills while I'm unable to resub my account cos I'm on holiday? Or cos my card didn't work? Or just because I want a little break?
**** NO.
Might as well convert the game to pay as you go, 5p per minute, I'm sure that would do wonders for your bottom line CCP
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thelung187
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:07:00 -
[220]
Originally by: goodnight omg. how much will i be able to stand. the nano nerf, the new gtcs, now this. will you ever bring something to cheer me up?
Heat!
[ 2005.05.19 22:54:23 ] InnerDrive > only solution safespot till you leave or mine in empire till you leave or s |
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:08:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Snarker What the hell, nice work CCP, you just lost tons of subscribers.
News for Snarker. SUBSCRIBERS PAY.
People running 'ghost accounts' do not. They shouldn't benefit therefore!
TANSTAAFL
My principles
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:08:00 -
[222]
I think this change makes absolute sense. Skill training is part of the game - if you don't pay then you don't play.
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Mad Ilya
Erasers inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:08:00 -
[223]
Oh well, yet another stupid decision. I remember seeing some dev say that this feat would never be removed..
You can say goodbye for me renewing one to two of my alt accounts (plus one trainer account) ever again.
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Seriya
Caldari The Priory
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:08:00 -
[224]
Also, I'd be a lot more willing to trade Ghost Training for a Skill Queue. But today's announcement is frankly horrible.
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Ethea
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:09:00 -
[225]
Going to cancel both of my accounts in protest if this happens.
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Dakisha
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:09:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Seriya Ghost Training to be Removed (NINE pages of respones in two HOURS.)
Give us time, we've only just got home from work. I fully expect to see carrier-nerf esque levels of comments.
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Eros Schui
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:09:00 -
[227]
Well, considering this account was created (and currently subscribed until the short skills are trained).. to Ghost Train up to Falcons / Ewar / Cyno alt...
Guess I don't have to wait to cancel. -1 (for good). What a waste of $20.00
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Cory Trevor
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:09:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Cory Trevor on 13/10/2008 18:09:18 One of my characters (that's right, i've got a few like most everyone else) - I was already getting the feeling that CCP didn't even want me to play their game anymore. This just makes it 10x worse.
I mean, if this change came hand-in-hand with some form of skill queue or something, that'd make sense - nerf one aspect but throw us a bone on the other hand. This is just taking more things away - in this case, taking away a lot. So many people maintain several accounts because they can let the account lapse for long skills and re-sub. Does anyone at CCP even realize how many accounts some people have?
If they're conscious of how many alt accounts they're going to lose because of this (both current and future characters), they might as well change the game's name to "Eve Online: We don't want your money, go away"
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Brinstead
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:09:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Digital Solaris
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Because companies actually want people to come back and if the player thinks he doesn't like the game enough to keep playing while training BS5, then removing the incentive to come back at all is a bad idea.
So name one MMO developer that lets your character progress while your account is frozen then?
This argument doesn't work in a MMO where character ability = time played.
Your WOW or WAR character can't progress while your account is unpaid.. but then again, you can't grind dread skills out in 3 weeks, either.
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Vitrael
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:10:00 -
[230]
The long-standing argument against having a skill queue is that it could be used to ghost train for too long. If ghost training is going away, please at least give us a skill queue. It would be a particularly great help to the new player experience as we train short skill after short skill.
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:10:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni News for Snarker. SUBSCRIBERS PAY.
People running 'ghost accounts' do not. They shouldn't benefit therefore!
People running 'ghost accounts' do indeed pay. Just not 100% of the time. If someone is paying for only 3 months out of every 6, they're still paying. Ghost Training isn't free, merely cheaper.
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Little help
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:10:00 -
[232]
I think there might actually be some 'money' logic to it... after reading all the responses to this topic.
People mostly speak of quiting alt accounts, or to be precise, of selling them. So, let us count the number of characters over some SP limit, let us say 20m SP. Will they dissapear and remain in inactive acounts? No, they will probably be sold and somebody else will pay for them. (probably some new player who got isk by selling GTC and then use RL money to pay for subscription) If a new player invests money to get a decently skilled char, he is not likely to quit soon.
So actually CCP does make a lot of money by this move.
But on the other hand, if people would just quit, without selling their chairs, that would hurt CCP. But most people here seem to not be willing to go this far.
I know what I will do :)
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Vodon
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:11:00 -
[233]
Your doing it wrong...
Man you guys really need to work on how to distract people with shiny objects...
Try something like: Gains on inactive accounts like training and research points is ending on Wednesday but here is a shiny new skill queue for all active accounts. yay! rejoice!
Yeah, I know, the analysts are telling you but look a the EBITA upside, looks good on paper doesn't it? in reality people will just not reactivate as many of their accounts, lets face it money is getting tight world wide and you just handed a reason for players to cancel a few of their accounts permanently. Pure genius, who is the brain box behind this one?
On a final note you shouldn't insult the intelligence of the player base by saying this has anything to do with balancing.
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EyeCeeYou
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:11:00 -
[234]
Originally by: jitasucks I'd say this was to do with iceland going down the shitter; quick guys, grab every little penny you can with your jewhands before it all goes **** up
Nice ...
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Capota
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:11:00 -
[235]
Omg..this is a real bullshit , i gwess the CCP is not happy with all the money that they receive from the players and they decided to apply this ****ing strategy...
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Tolderan
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:12:00 -
[236]
I dont want to read 10 pages of whining , but i hope it will come a skill queue for 1 skill, so we can skill after an other ;)
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:12:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 13/10/2008 18:13:15
Quote: was already getting the feeling that CCP didn't even want me to play their game anymore
Intresting definition of 'playing' a game do you have there
Oh and if this change isnt going to happen i am going to cancel all my over 9000 accounts...
Deal with it, if you want to train your character you got to pay.
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Ayr Chron
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:12:00 -
[238]
Edited by: Ayr Chron on 13/10/2008 18:14:01 I always kept my accounts active, both of them, so i think i'm ok with the change or i simply don't care enough.
Just give us the skill queue for god sakes though.
edit: however, i forgot to add: CCP, the reasons of the change that you gave are laughable, edit please, you'd come out better saying "we need more money", it's perfectly right and understandable :) -- - thank god i'm here. |
Jack Mancetti
Minmatar Rennfeuer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:13:00 -
[239]
Well...this offline training are the point why many ppl play the Game,especial older Players I dont see any point to remove this feature..and i mean thats the next step to bring down Eve-online for many Pilots. I'm against this!
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:13:00 -
[240]
Hypothetical situation:
Account A is training Amarr Cruiser V, and the account is inactive and unsubbed.
Account B is training Amarr Cruiser V, and the account is active and subbed.
How, exactly, it Account B putting in more "time and energy" than Account A? Oh that's right, it's because "time and energy" is a pretty transparent euphemism for "Money". Well done CCP, well done.
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EyeCeeYou
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:13:00 -
[241]
Edited by: EyeCeeYou on 13/10/2008 18:15:30 I think the "balance" aspect comes in because of the effect that this will have on character sales.
Won't this reduce the market of characters that are "raised on GTCs" simply to be sold (for ISK or cash)?
Basically, it makes a higher SP character more valuable. I can certainly see that having an effect on balance and game-play ...
Originally by: Trzzbk Hypothetical situation:
Account A is training Amarr Cruiser V, and the account is inactive and unsubbed.
Account B is training Amarr Cruiser V, and the account is active and subbed.
How, exactly, it Account B putting in more "time and energy" than Account A? Oh that's right, it's because "time and energy" is a pretty transparent euphemism for "Money". Well done CCP, well done.
By this logic, we should be able to train up infinite chars for free - or maybe by just paying for the first sign-up fee.
I guess thats how it should be. Pay $20, train all you want and never pay again, but if you ever want to actually log into the game to play, you have to pay. Wow, *everybody* would be in a titan in no time ... Won't that be fun?
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:13:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Snarker What the hell, nice work CCP, you just lost tons of subscribers.
News for Snarker. SUBSCRIBERS PAY.
People running 'ghost accounts' do not. They shouldn't benefit therefore!
TANSTAAFL
You're a collosal idiot if you think that the ability to take a break and still advance wasn't deeply satisfying to those of us who don't ********** over CCP and play constantly. Try to connect with the non-insane portion of the crowd and see how taking away this small small advantage for no good reason takes away a tremendous portion of good feeling and goodwill.
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Lost Hamster
Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:13:00 -
[243]
Look's like my second account will be permanently canceled. Well done CCP!
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:14:00 -
[244]
It's never bothered me in the slightest, that people can train a skill whilst their account is inactive. So your premiss that this is a "Hot topic" and "Upsets the balance of the game", is spurious at best.
This I believe will cost you, rather than gain you extra monies.
But equally speaking volumes, is that lack of a joint announcement, giving us all a skill queue of some kind, which I believe is a very "hot topic" amongst players.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Rayna 3
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:14:00 -
[245]
I guess they found this in there secret files under "In case of country going bankrupt we do this"
I for one think CCP needs to hire people who can do some math and know what customer service means. And not let the people who do there programming also determine there policy changes. If they aren't good at programming why would they think they are good at marketing and customer good will.
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Skraut
ElitistOps GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:15:00 -
[246]
Just adding to the growing pile of -1 account. Maybe two? I only really play one at a time, so there's no incentive for me to pay for three accounts that I'm not using full-time. I wasn't even doing 30+ day unsubscribes, just 10-20 here and there to cheapen it up and make those accounts worth keeping around.
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Complete Tart
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:16:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Miriyaka we're making the game more expensive for your good
we're destroying entire gameplay styles for your good
we're making the game even more expensive, for your good
it's all for you, the player. we swear. it has nothing to do with our glorious golden vision or our bloated bottom line.
how full of shit can this company possibly be? this is hilariously bad.
This is exactly what's happening.
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:16:00 -
[248]
Originally by: thelung187 It would be nice if, after 6 pages, at least someone from CCP would respond to the arguments being made here.
No response, to me, means the decision is made, and we'll just have to live with it. Or cancel multiple accounts.
What's next? Will it be considered 'unfair' to be training while offline? Will it be considered 'fair' to reintroduce skill grinding?
For a long time, the line was that the main benefit players get from being online is personal experience and active ISK generation.
I can't point to a single instance where I could have said "Oh, I would have won that fight - but he was ghost training, so I didn't." Skill points are a tiny tiny part of the recipe for success in EVE.
There is no need for this change.
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Maconha
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:16:00 -
[249]
well time to leave eve... gost training keep me from geting tired of the game, this way i will get tired and then abandon the game... yes u can say i can activate the acount and let it train without log in, but if acount is active, i can¦t resist in loging in, so geting tired of the game this way is certain. with the loss of 30 day etc i got worried to be forced to play two month on a role, and now the acount was about to finish and i war realy tired of the game and geting some 10-15 days off were the kick back to me, this way i don¦t know... really ccp, what is this? you want to wipe the server and start over again??? this way u will only have old players in the server, and wiping is the only way for survival of the game.
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Pbs
Pumpkin Scissors
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:16:00 -
[250]
Quote: Please post only in English - CCP Fallout
Please dont post at all.
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:18:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Trzzbk on 13/10/2008 18:19:17
Originally by: EyeCeeYou
By this logic, we should be able to train up infinite chars for free - or maybe by just paying for the first sign-up fee.
How does this leap of logic work exactly?
Quote:
I guess thats how it should be. Pay $20, train all you want and never pay again, but if you ever want to actually log into the game to play, you have to pay. Wow, *everybody* would be in a titan in no time ... Won't that be fun?
Or they could just keep it how it is: pay $20, train skills, set long one, let account lapse, pay $15 dollars to change skill, train skills, set long skill, let account lapse, etc. Ghost training is not, nor has it ever been free.
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:18:00 -
[252]
WOOT!
Lets get Mothership skills in 1 day with a Squad and Experience scrolls. Oh wait, Eve is Real Life Time training based?
Great Work at Shooting-Foot skill, took you 1 minute to train that!
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CowWarrior
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:18:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Jack O'Connal Edited by: Jack O''Connal on 13/10/2008 17:50:48 This just means I will have 6 characters coming up for sale soon. Instead of CCP getting $50 from me every month (on average) they will be getting $15 a month. I just can't justify training alts that I rarely use anymore. Another brilliant idea CCP.
Basically, this^^^
Although I doubt if I'll even keep one account active. There's so many other cool things that CCP could be doing with this game and instead they seem to just be removing the things that make it tolerable...
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Perpello
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:18:00 -
[254]
Pay to Train 2008!
CCP Fallout is the perfect character name to introduce this with.
CCP Meltdown would have been even funnier.
I half-appreciate the balance reasoning and think Eve just lost a unique selling point. Hope this change doesn't ultimately backfire.
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:19:00 -
[255]
This again.
I've never used the feature at all but wouldn't whatever prompted you to keep it last time it's removal was proposed still stand, if not what has changed regarding this since then?
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Dra Monica
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:19:00 -
[256]
bad idea guys
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Kalmanaka
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:19:00 -
[257]
Need to build Ark. All these tears are going to flood the earth. WTB Ark bpc.
If you want to use a for-pay service then you have to pay to use it. It's a pretty simple concept really. Kinda surprised this many people can't grasp it.
Estimate != Reality What you want != What you get You whine != Someone cares Learn to deal with it. -Abrazzar |
Little Nublet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:19:00 -
[258]
**** THAT PLAYERBASE CCP, OH YEAH, **** IT HARDER
HARDER, HARDER
OH YEAH, **** IT LIKE THAT
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:19:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Poreuomai I think this change makes absolute sense. Skill training is part of the game - if you don't pay then you don't play.
How about they just do pay for skills? After all you pay you play. What is the difference? And imagine what all those 3 rich peeps playing eve would do for their bottom line. Of course they would be broke month after when anyone whos not rich quits but I'm sure that kind of long term outlook is far outside CCPs skills. Guess they should have trained it when they had subscribers.
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:20:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Inanna Zuni News for Snarker. SUBSCRIBERS PAY.
People running 'ghost accounts' do not. They shouldn't benefit therefore!
People running 'ghost accounts' do indeed pay. Just not 100% of the time. If someone is paying for only 3 months out of every 6, they're still paying. Ghost Training isn't free, merely cheaper.
So you pay for 3 months and you get 3 months training (and playing time). makes sense. You don't pay for 3 months and you get nothing in return. seems reasonable/(TANSTAAFL)
So, overall, what is wrong with that?
My principles
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Kr3m17
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:20:00 -
[261]
I really don't see a problem in not letting expired accounts train. No other game on the planet lets you magically train when you're not paying for the game. My main concern is with the "inactive" accounts. Does this mean people that aren't logged in? Or people who haven't logged for x number of hours/days? I don't particularly think that this portion is all that fair. Personally I believe that if someone is paying for their account, and they don't have time to login all day every day like a 12 year old schoolboy, then I don't think they should be penalized. That's the big part of why myself and my coworkers play this game is becuase we're all very busy most of the time, but we can still advance in the game as long as we have the isk to buy our skillbooks.
I think some more explaining is in order to what they define as "inactive", but I fully support stopping training on those accounts that are expired.
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Artemis Rose
Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:20:00 -
[262]
I feel this is quite uncalled for, but my main question is, why now? As far as I can tell, ghost training had been part of this game since the beginning so what makes you decide we have to do it now.
I've been a firm believer that ghost training brings people back to the game, I can speak that it has brought me back a few times thinking "Oh wow, i have new toys, lets give EVE a spin".
Combined with GTCs costing more ISK and now this change, I'll just use one account instead of 2-3. You'll save me the ISK grind .
Originally by: Tau Dades This is a great idea, but it could be better. When your account goes inactive, in addition to not training, all your clones should lose their implants! Also, characters should be fined a large percentage of their total assets while inactive. That way, if they ever decide to come back they won't have squat. This is brilliant, because then they will have to buy GTC to get all their precious iskies back!!!!!1111
Exactly! You don't pay, you don't deserve anything!
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Sarl Massai
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:21:00 -
[263]
This is hilarious. This isnt about protecting the interest of those who 'put work into developing their characters.''(Im confused, is someone putting more work into skill development if they are simply paying for the game? Mission running doesnt speed up skills.) Its about squeezing money out of those who have decided to do this because they dont have much to do.
I am not impressed and Im considering quitting over this, paying for nothing but the privilege to grind missions, pfff.
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Jalxan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:21:00 -
[264]
When I first read this, I thought that this change made it that you couldn't train while you're offline; in other words, being forced to train while online. That would have infuriated me.
But, if I read it correctly, it's only Expired or Inactive accounts (once that are suspended due to non-payment). In this case, I think it's a good idea, as it crimps people from making 'Mothership Pilot for $$$' accounts.
That said, it DOES affect those who are on a sabbatical. The idea is good, but to handle those types of people who are on sabbatical, they should be rewarded for returning, not punished.
On a side note, I believe those who are more active online, should be rewarded with an increased skillpoint accumulation rate. That would keep a LOT of people online for longer.
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Audrea
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:21:00 -
[265]
Everything logical and sensible has already been said, now we gotta wait for ccp to get back on their feets from the crash landing from the moon... hopefully
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TCL987
Gallente Hannibals Pirates
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:22:00 -
[266]
Edited by: TCL987 on 13/10/2008 18:23:11 I've never let my account lapse to train a long skill and I'm not particularly bothered by people who do this. While this may not affect me I still think this change is a bad idea. Maybe a system where the longer you are unsubscribed the slower your skills train. That way people who are only unsubscribed for a few days because they forgot they needed to renew their accounts won't be affected but people who leave their accounts unsubscribed for months will start to train slower until their account is renewed or their skills train so slowly that they gain 0SP/H. How much slower I don't know what would be "fair" so that will need some discussion.
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Dr Asimov
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:22:00 -
[267]
Edited by: Dr Asimov on 13/10/2008 18:25:19 I own 7 accounts (2 inactive training carrier 5 and Battleship 5) My oldest son owns 3 (1 inactive training Battleship 5) My youngest owns 2 (1 inactive training Spaceship Command 5)
If you implement this plan CCP all accounts will be inactive at their anniversary date.
This is a very bad idea and your player base is already waning and I heard Stargate Worlds program is opening up soon I always did like Lord Yu.........
Forgot to add I will remove your banner from my website and end being an affiliate.
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Illwill Bill
Minmatar Genos Occidere Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:23:00 -
[268]
Onoes! Not only have GTC prices reached ludicrous levels: CCP also expects me to PAY? for PLAYING?! OMGz I can't have my internet spaceships for free anymore!
Seriously Guys, CCP is running a business here. They are providing a service that we all like and want, and you are actually whining about not getting it for free? Be happy about the free skill training you have already recieved, and stop whining about being forced to pay! </nerdrage>
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Kallisto Black
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:23:00 -
[269]
CCP you owe it to us as customers to disclose exactly what IF anything will follow this change to make up for what we all see plainly as a veiled attempt to increase active accounts (which it will not).
Even if you do intend to add a skill queue, the cost of this MMO, and it's restriction to only allow one character per account to train is designed arround your customers subscribing with multiple accounts at rates grossly above market rate of the competition, for a game that we obviously love, but also has been plagued with major issues since its launch and promises that haven't been fulfilled for years.
I for one will sell, consolidate, do what I can to reduce my accounts down to a single active one if no further word is heard in 2 days. There's simply no reason to keep so many alt accounts active, and not being able to advance them inbetween subscriptions invalidates any reason to keep them on separate accounts. You might make some money with accounts transfers, sales, but you'll lose out big with the long term recurring revenue.
Between this, GTC's, and the failure of playable epic fleet battles in 0.0.. what's next? |
Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:23:00 -
[270]
Edited by: Trzzbk on 13/10/2008 18:24:10
Originally by: Kr3m17 I really don't see a problem in not letting expired accounts train. No other game on the planet lets you magically train when you're not paying for the game.
Name another game with the same skill training mechanic as EVE. I'll wait.
Originally by: Illwill Bill
Seriously Guys, CCP is running a business here. They are providing a service that we all like and want, and you are actually whining about not getting it for free? Be happy about the free skill training you have already recieved, and stop whining about being forced to pay! </nerdrage>
Point to the post where people want to play for free. I'll wait.
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:23:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Inanna Zuni News for Snarker. SUBSCRIBERS PAY.
People running 'ghost accounts' do not. They shouldn't benefit therefore!
People running 'ghost accounts' do indeed pay. Just not 100% of the time. If someone is paying for only 3 months out of every 6, they're still paying. Ghost Training isn't free, merely cheaper.
So you pay for 3 months and you get 3 months training (and playing time). makes sense. You don't pay for 3 months and you get nothing in return. seems reasonable/(TANSTAAFL)
So, overall, what is wrong with that?
Absolutely nothing, I for one actually think CCP is perfectly justified in making this change. However, as many people have posted, 'ghost training' was a nice little bonus, something that made training up an alt cheaper, and thus well worth doing, and I think this change is unnecessary, risky and unpopular.
I just wanted to call you out on a stupid statement that wasn't true.
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Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:23:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni Spewing shit from somewhere
The point is that Eve isn't actually a good enough game to take away what small benefits it has.
Analogy: A dude has just fallen off of a cliff, but another person catches their arm before they plummet into oblivion. Now the person who's life was just saved is insulting their savior while pulling out arm hairs.
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:24:00 -
[273]
Originally by: JafoPBCFR Ok great. Now make the skill times less that way when you hit the 30-90 day training you dont want to cancel while you train. WOW that would make sense wouldnt it? Nahhh It would remove that TIMESINK wouldnt it.
No, the long training times for level 5 skillz are fine.
The problem isn't that level 5s take a long time, but that many level 5s are trained not because the player truly, deeply, sincerely wants the actual effect of that specific level 5, but only because the level 5 is a prerequisite for something that the player does want.
Of course there are level 5s that are actually desirable. I didn't train Caldari Battleship to 5 so I could train Marauder skill. I trained Caldari Battleship to 5 because I want the sweet bonus it gives me.
However, in many other cases, specific skillz are trained to five only because the game forces players to.
Skillz prerequisites needs to be looked at, thoroughly, and many of the level 5 prerequisites are stupid, and need to be lowered to level 4.
That's how simple it is.
If CCP implements this change, many players will rejoice and be happy.
-- Salpad |
kublai
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:24:00 -
[274]
How stupid do you think we are?
I'll be selling a character before the month ends as a result of this, with this little "balancing" issue there's no way I can afford 4 accounts, certainly not after you blew the GTC price throug the damn roof.
We'll see how long it takes me to go down to two accounts, congrats CCP, that's one less payday from me, I won't quit the game, but I will buy one gtc less per month as will many many others.
Not to mention the hundreds of people who quit eve long ago and only buy a gtc now and then to keep skilling, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
A-War Recruiting |
Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:24:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Cueball Mcfuzz You're a collosal idiot if you think that the ability to take a break and still advance wasn't deeply satisfying to those of us who don't ********** over CCP and play constantly. Try to connect with the non-insane portion of the crowd and see how taking away this small small advantage for no good reason takes away a tremendous portion of good feeling and goodwill.
If it was such a "small small" advantage then how come 11 pages of mostly bleating? It isn't! It is a massive disadvantage to *players* (ie those who actually pay their subscriptions) to let other people get such a benefit without paying for it. It devalues their subscription.
You don't get education for free on Earth so why should you expect to get it for free in Eve?
My principles
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Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:24:00 -
[276]
People aren't getting something for free any more wah wah.
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More money
Erasers inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:24:00 -
[277]
You should give us free game time every extra DT what you F*** up. No more apogolizes you need to give us something back...
PS: did all your bamk take your monies and you need to do this?
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TheG2
Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:25:00 -
[278]
Looks like its time to start looking at other MMO's.
One of the nice things about EVE was that you didn't need to grind to play and overtime you'd just get better, but I don't see a point, I'll just go play another game.
It's been fun, but recent changes and this nonsense are just another sign CCP has lost its way.
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Miner Wyvern
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:25:00 -
[279]
As a dual account holder, I agree to this action wholeheartedly, however, I do think that greater throught should be put through before making this change perminant.. So here's my two cents worth.
We all know ghost training DOES affect player skill balances, and DOES impact your wallet, HOWEVER... Just cutting it off without a means to compromise is thoughtless and destructive. I agree with the small percentage of the forum who isnt just upset about not being able to train 4 characters at the same time for virtually free. If one dosent pay, one should't train, but, if you are going to do this, you should enable the ability to train skills on more then one character on the SAME account with a SINGLE SKILL queue. That way people can train skills on 2-3 accounts LIKE THEY DO ANYWAYS, but be able to do it next to their main account which they, in all likelyhood, spend more time on anyway. The single skill queue, balances things out abit more as you can plan skills that go through downtime, or train a second skill to kick in if you do decide to leave your alt inactive for a few months while you blow crap up in a titan, or whathave you.
Of course, these changes, however, will NOT affect people who use two seperate clients to multi-task specific roles or jobs. I do realize that a fair few ammount of multi-client fans are out there, but seeing as they ALREADY PAY to participate in these activities, there wouldnt be any loss in that area, if anything, it might help to promote multi-client participation.
Instigating change without fair recompence will only lead to additional issues, please think it over abit more before taking any radical steps.. If anything else.. If you DO put on multi-character skill training.. Just think of all the money you would get just from character transfer transactions..
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:25:00 -
[280]
Darn - and I was about to use this trick, give myself a month off and spend some quality time with my family while I trained up Caldari Battleship V - I'm sure I can tear myself away from the game for long enough to spend some time with them on thanksgiving.
(my 3 year old daughter Skye calls Eve the 'shooting game' and would like to have the portrait editor as a standalone toy if you've got some spare time)
No complaints here to be honest, CCP has been overly generous with this in the past and I'm not surprised that CCP is nixing this. But it would also be nice to get a skill queue or at the very least automagicly train the next level enabled sometime sooner rather than later.
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TheAdj
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:26:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Snarker What the hell, nice work CCP, you just lost tons of subscribers.
News for Snarker. SUBSCRIBERS PAY.
People running 'ghost accounts' do not. They shouldn't benefit therefore!
TANSTAAFL
You've gotta be an ISD guy or something trying to white knight. People who ghost train resub and keep playing, usually they stopped playing for a reason and return (burnt out, RL caught up, etc). Going "hey at least I can train up BS5 or ASC5 so I can keep working on getting into a carrier" is enough to offset people being unable to actually play for a bit. This change removes that, and a lot of people will simply just not return after a break because they're still exactly the same as when they left, whereas everyone else kept training. This is a poorly thought out change and the shitty excuse in the OP proves that. Hopefully this monstrous threadnaught proves the point to CCP and they drop this really poor idea. ----------------
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jackarse
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:26:00 -
[282]
well il be down to 2 accounts from 5 its your lose so why do it
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:26:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Inanna Zuni News for Snarker. SUBSCRIBERS PAY.
People running 'ghost accounts' do not. They shouldn't benefit therefore!
People running 'ghost accounts' do indeed pay. Just not 100% of the time. If someone is paying for only 3 months out of every 6, they're still paying. Ghost Training isn't free, merely cheaper.
So you pay for 3 months and you get 3 months training (and playing time). makes sense. You don't pay for 3 months and you get nothing in return. seems reasonable/(TANSTAAFL)
So, overall, what is wrong with that?
If it had always been this way, golden. What we had in ghost training was a relatively unique feature that appealed to the casual player who LIKES to take breaks from Eve and come back to a slightly advanced skill.
The feature (which was apparently massively unfair to CCP, fellate them some more please) was a low cost issue that actively encouraged part-time players to keep more accounts and come back when they did unsubscribe- some of us DO unsubscribe regularly.
There's no earthly reason to take it away and not expect a backlash from those of us who have, right or wrong, grown to expect it.
Sad truth is, there will be an impact on the bottom line now and all new players will just accept that this is the way it is. It's probably good business in the long run, but it shows VERY clearly that CCP's motivations continue to be antithetical to pleasing the playerbase.
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Agrikk
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:26:00 -
[284]
Another multi account player against this move.
I've never ghosted on any of my accounts, but also have never felt somehow cheated because of those who do.
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Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:26:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Jalxan
On a side note, I believe those who are more active online, should be rewarded with an increased skillpoint accumulation rate. That would keep a LOT of people online for longer.
I'd certainly keep both of my accounts logged on to the box that doesn't even have a monitor on it that sits in my closet. Online doesnt mean active, moreso in eve
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
Capota
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:26:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Audrea Everything logical and sensible has already been said, now we gotta wait for ccp to get back on their feets from the crash landing from the moon... hopefully
Well if they don't get back o their feet soon at least i hope they realise that they will lose allot of players ,and instead of 42K player they will have 21K in a verry short time.. Good job CCP , keep it this way and you will lose everything in a few days.
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Ure Doom
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:26:00 -
[287]
Worst Change Ever
Totally unjustified money grab that will backfire badly on CCP
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Carlani Hudson
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:27:00 -
[288]
This is very, very bad idea, that shouldn't even have passed the drawing board.
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Rana Tekkren
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:27:00 -
[289]
I totally endorse this change. I think people with fat wallets IRL should have an advantage over those who haven't.
Live with it. Money makes the world go around!
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I m
Minmatar BWR Gamers Legion of Honor
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:27:00 -
[290]
WTF ..first GTC's and now this ....ccp u start to make this game worst than better , LAGGY SERV , nerf speed , expensive gtcs , and now not ghost train anymore ... if the gtc's will be cheaper that will be ok but ...u want to losse more and more player _____ STEP UP NOW ! |
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Darvin Felth
Oberon Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:27:00 -
[291]
Originally by: CCP Fallout We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players .
You guys fail
Your present from Harry will be in the post ...
Smoking Whippets since 1967 ....
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Ocerdyn
Royal Production Society
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:28:00 -
[292]
Edited by: Ocerdyn on 13/10/2008 18:28:57 Edited by: Ocerdyn on 13/10/2008 18:28:00
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
So you pay for 3 months and you get 3 months training (and playing time). makes sense. You don't pay for 3 months and you get nothing in return. seems reasonable/(TANSTAAFL)
So, overall, what is wrong with that?
You would perhaps have a point in it wasn't 5 years into the game and training while unsubbed wasn't a major selling point that probably a majority of players have enjoyed. Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, training unsubbed was one of the perks of playing EVE and it's your own fault that you've never taken advantage of it? |
Getmore Alts
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:28:00 -
[293]
Originally by: SiJira next change from ccp is your skills stop training when you go offline
Wait, I have a better idea: Your skills will train when you are online and killing npc-s!
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:28:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Snarker What the hell, nice work CCP, you just lost tons of subscribers.
Yes CCP
You just lost subscribers who aren't paying; its your loss!!!
PS I will still keep my 3 accounts active...even when I'm sent away for a few months
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Ramiren
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:29:00 -
[295]
12 Pages and still no offical response..
Do they even deserve our cash?
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Vek NaVek
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:29:00 -
[296]
The interesting thing about this is that, people who 'ghost train' have more than one account, and while CCP will more than likely keep the number of people who play eve, they will just be getting less $ from them. This is probably a calculated move based on increasing subscription, but I do honestly think it will backfire. Those who were paying for 6months/year will now no longer bother with that extra account and more than likely not make it a full 12month sub.
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ignobil
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:30:00 -
[297]
anyone knows any pirate eve server???
i think i will ear this a lot now
or even better:
hey!!! look this new eve like mmo "bla bla" is great!!! came on! it¦s new :D
eve isn¦t a new game and like all older games can¦t afford to lose as many players as something like this does, so ccp you should think on that a little better.
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the Burglar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:30:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan What this was was a nice way for people to get perhaps an extra 15 days (at most!) of skill training and feel like, "man, I'm getting my money's worth here! I can't wait to come back to eve after my break!" Some of us have real lives, take real breaks, and aren't tremendous basement dwelling MMORPG *****s.
I feel exactly the same, with a real life its good to be able to ake a break instead and know that you actually have something new to look forward to when you reactivate your account. I recently reactivated my account ONLY because i knew that my Battleship lvl 5 was complete in a few hours. But seeing the lack of CCP responses i think they just don't give a f*** and are giving the marketing-guy a raise for his splendid money-making-idea.
This will mean that you will loose another $209.94 a year from me, since i will get rid of my alt-char.
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Rouque Vanderbuilt
Nuts and Bolts
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:30:00 -
[299]
Epic fail...
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Acobar
Minmatar Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:30:00 -
[300]
I am hopeful that the changes are due to skill queuing, but if not I will be downsizing from five accounts to two.
Ideas:
"Opt-in" or "opt-out" of skill queuing, which would allow both sides to be happy. If you opt-in you can't train accounts when account is not active. If you aren't then you can....
Why don't you offer the ability for people to pay for training rights on a per character basis. Don't charge full price, but a somewhat lessened amount to promote it's use. By increasing the number of characters per account you would solve the multiple account gripes and complaints. We all have numerous accounts for training only, so allow us to train numerous characters on one account for a "service fee" plus a per character charge.
Agony is recruiting
Joining Agony
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:30:00 -
[301]
Since I paid for my Eve GTC, I want every hour that I lost to DT.
That 1 hour costed $$$ you money grubbing polar bears!
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Rana Tekkren
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:30:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Ramiren 12 Pages and still no offical response..
Do they even deserve our cash?
After the 3rd server rollback in 3 fleet fights, setting us back atleast 10 carriers and a MOM kill, no they don't. CCP should pay us for testing this beta-stage game.
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Ristavel
Time Of Apocolypse OLD IRONSIDES
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:31:00 -
[303]
Worst idea ever.
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Skraut
ElitistOps GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:31:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Inanna Zuni News for Snarker. SUBSCRIBERS PAY.
People running 'ghost accounts' do not. They shouldn't benefit therefore!
People running 'ghost accounts' do indeed pay. Just not 100% of the time. If someone is paying for only 3 months out of every 6, they're still paying. Ghost Training isn't free, merely cheaper.
So you pay for 3 months and you get 3 months training (and playing time). makes sense. You don't pay for 3 months and you get nothing in return. seems reasonable/(TANSTAAFL)
So, overall, what is wrong with that?
what's wrong is that eve is a pretty shitty game at times, so plenty of us normal people here in the real world (where life is not about constantly fellating an mmo publisher) get tired of the crap it throws our way or things in real life come up and we take extended breaks, usually after a final act of setting a long skill training. typically we have the bad taste of our irritating last few days of eve in our mouth whenever we think about it, so we have no interest in coming back. then evemon goes *ding* and we remember we had battleship/carrier/asc/whatever V training, and we realize our character's still been advancing and suddenly the interest level goes up so we bother to resubscribe and have just enough fun to keep us going for a few more months until we get sick of CCP's shit once more and start the whole process over again.
this is one of an increasingly few ways in which eve is unique, and one of the reasons eve has one of the most consistent and loyal subscriber bases of any mmo. the same people keep coming back to play this game over and over, and they wouldn't be doing that if their character stopped dead every time their subscription ran out.
you are what we call a 'short-term thinker', much like the marketing or accounting dude at CCP who thought this change would positively affect their bottom line.
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W3370Pi4
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:31:00 -
[305]
i dont like you anymore Fallout you can leave now *********************************************
Vitreous Mercoxit ! What else |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:31:00 -
[306]
I was under the impression this was already this way... Infact I remember reading this in patch notes over a year ago. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Amarrian Cougar
Amarr Spastic Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:31:00 -
[307]
All I can say to the the thousands of people who black-out train is..........
PPPPPPPWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN'D Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lucia Warbler
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:33:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan What this was was a nice way for people to get perhaps an extra 15 days (at most!) of skill training and feel like, "man, I'm getting my money's worth here! I can't wait to come back to eve after my break!" Some of us have real lives, take real breaks, and aren't tremendous basement dwelling MMORPG *****s.
Exactly my thoughts. I never thought of it as customer service, but now that I think about it, it was (is?) one of the finest perks of this game.
I think the working adults are the ones most ****ed off by this change, since they don't have the luxury of infinite time to enjoy the game.
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:33:00 -
[309]
Still enjoying the whining from the ****socking ignoramuses who were never intelligent enough to take advantage of unsubscribed training, or never left the house enough to be unsubscribed, ever.
Your opinions are invalid on the basis of your poor personal choices in playing a bad game like Eve so consistently.
Inana, what in the flying **** is Taanasstaffafffall
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Thomas Hobson
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:33:00 -
[310]
This idea is absolute garbage and yet I am not at all surprised it is being implemented. Any sensible person, committee or company would have dismissed it shortly after it was even conceived in a meeting.
I really hope this causes subscribed accounts to plummet drastically with no offsetting character transfer revenue.
P.S. Could anyone suggest an MMO whose "stewards" actually know WTF about how their game is played, and do not hate their player base? |
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Vek NaVek
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:33:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Jason Edwards I was under the impression this was already this way... Infact I remember reading this in patch notes over a year ago.
True, at the time it was an error in patchnotes that creeped in form the Chinese Server. There was huge outcry at the time and we got reasured that it wasnt us just china.
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Netuti
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:33:00 -
[312]
CCP is a pirate now! CC -5
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Shani Nerkata
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:33:00 -
[313]
A short story : I know you dont care about my life (and it is not my duty :) ) but this story will show you all how CCP trying to get more money, may lose even more :
I used to ghost train and I totaly asume this. Why ?
Because ghost training allow(ed) me to keep 3 acounts "active". 1 account full time and 2 alts account 2/3 of the time. Why did I no longer pay my 3 acconts full time ? Money : Before I had 3 accounts full time and was paying GTC90 for $60 each month. This sum whas ok for me and was happy to pay it for a quality game as Eve Online is.
Few time ago, CCP change GTCs : no more GTC90, only GTC60 payable in euro (living in Çuro zone). After that, had to pay 52Ç each mounth (rounded). You'll say $60 vs Ç52, it's ok... But for those who dont know the change rate at this momment Ç52 was equal to $80-$90... (little bit less today : $70).
This whas too much for me : So that I decided to ghost train 2 of my 3 account. This allowed me to save 10 to 15Ç each mounth depending on the skill I could train. 52Ç minum 10Ç (rounded) = 40Ç (rounded) = $55 (rounded) ghost training alowed me to spend same money as before for same result in SP. And considering I only play 2 charac in same time, there where no problem.
Now, I'll abandon my 3rd account and move my 3rd character to 2nd account. CCP wanted more money ? I'll pay only 2 account instead of 3 (35Ç/month tomorow instead of 60$ before). One of my character will no longer train skills but I'll save more money, thx CCP
As final word I'm playing Eve since 4 years, paying 3 accounts since 3 years and ghost training 2 of them since few mounths I dont feel "unfair" regarding other capsuleers who "actively put their time and energy into working on their characters". On my mind, CCP is also trying to get more money (crisis is world whide and a perfectly understand this). However this will fail with me, sorry.
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Rana Tekkren
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:34:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Netuti CCP is a pirate now! CC -5
They pwn hard, thats for sure!
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Hell's Mercenary
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:34:00 -
[315]
╔═╦═╦╦═╗ ║═╣═║║╔╝ ║═╣╔╣║╚╗ ╚═╩╝╚╩═╝ ╔═╦══╦╦╗ ║╔╣╔╗║║║ ║╚╣╚╝║║║ ║╔╣╔╗║║╚╗ ╚╝╚╝╚╩╩═╝
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Karan Somtaaw
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:34:00 -
[316]
Edited by: Karan Somtaaw on 13/10/2008 18:35:26 Ok guys let us STOP WHIN-E-ing FOR A MOMENT...
Can anyone point to any article or points to explain why this is 'a long overdue change'???
Also why is it 'much needed'? Needed by who? The players? I don't think so as I can't fathom any player who would want this - unless those who are jealous of people afk-training.
I am really curious as to how this benefits anyone at all apart from CCP money-wise (no this is not a jab but a serious comment).
This is similiar to the change where they stopped the 'more you use the action the more you level the relevant skill' back in the first 1-2 years of Eve.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:34:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit
Originally by: Snarker What the hell, nice work CCP, you just lost tons of subscribers.
Yes CCP
You just lost subscribers who aren't paying; its your loss!!!
PS I will still keep my 3 accounts active...even when I'm sent away for a few months
Yea, lets take a look at this.
Lets say... 5k subs are perma-cancelled.
they only pay, $15 every 3 months (all 5k accounts are training rank 14 skills, all of the time).
thats what.. only $20,000 per year that they are loosing.
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Meat Bucket
Crush Kill Destroy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:34:00 -
[318]
Well I for one an indifferent ont his change. I don't 'ghost' train.
I always thought this was a bug really. If it were my game I wouldn't allow training if you weren't paying either.
Holy crap, Eve players are way *****y. Reminds me of the Curzon Dax song 'Forum Whiner's Unite'. You guys should go listen to that and keep in mind the song is about you.
BTW, if you're going to quit over this, please send me your isk and contract me your stuff.
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Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:34:00 -
[319]
DIGGER NICKS
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:34:00 -
[320]
Edited by: Trzzbk on 13/10/2008 18:36:15
Originally by: Inanna Zuni (TANSTAAFL)
I'd say that's a good thing too, considering how you look even after having to pay for all of your lunches.
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Altholonas Kynslayer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:35:00 -
[321]
12 pages and no clarification on what they considered "inactive" to be.
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Cyber Ralph
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:35:00 -
[322]
stupid stupid stupid.....it is all about the monney
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Guardian Decsendent
Caldari ROMANIA Renegades STYX.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:35:00 -
[323]
its time for us to sell our accounts and quit eve ! ----
The Frontiers II movie click !!
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Snarker
Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:36:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Snarker What the hell, nice work CCP, you just lost tons of subscribers.
News for Snarker. SUBSCRIBERS PAY.
People running 'ghost accounts' do not. They shouldn't benefit therefore!
TANSTAAFL
Yeah they do, they have to pay to start up a new skill don't they? And with the removal of 30day GTC, people would have to pay 35$ to play for 60 days, then let their account deactivate for another 30 days. Many people will not reactivate their account to continue their skill training now, thus lost subscribers. Also, it will encourage many people to quit Eve. I know lots of players that are only paying and playing the game because of 'Ghost training', they will just leave permanently. CCP made this move in hopes that these people will subscribe fully, but instead it will make them leave in droves. Personally, one of my accounts will be put on permanent hiatus because of this. ----------------------------------------
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Meat Bucket
Crush Kill Destroy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:36:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Guardian Decsendent it time for us to sell our accounts and quit eve !
Give me your isk, and contract me your stuff pls.
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:36:00 -
[326]
Send me 1bil ISK and I will stop this from being implemented. ---------------------------------------
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Sarl Massai
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:36:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Feng Schui
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit
Originally by: Snarker What the hell, nice work CCP, you just lost tons of subscribers.
Yes CCP
You just lost subscribers who aren't paying; its your loss!!!
PS I will still keep my 3 accounts active...even when I'm sent away for a few months
Yea, lets take a look at this.
Lets say... 5k subs are perma-cancelled.
they only pay, $15 every 3 months (all 5k accounts are training rank 14 skills, all of the time).
thats what.. only $20,000 per year that they are loosing.
You've never met an accountant have you?
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Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:37:00 -
[328]
Originally by: CCP Fallout capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will ... be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
That's kind of the point of the game :|
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Complete Tart
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:37:00 -
[329]
Eve is sooo frickin Premium, popular features aren't added to the game, they're removed!
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Ore 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:37:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Hell's Mercenary ╔═╦═╦╦═╗ ║═╣═║║╔╝ ║═╣╔╣║╚╗ ╚═╩╝╚╩═╝ ╔═╦══╦╦╗ ║╔╣╔╗║║║ ║╚╣╚╝║║║ ║╔╣╔╗║║╚╗ ╚╝╚╝╚╩╩═╝
This. WHY CCP!?? WHY THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE THIS! YOUR GAME IS BRILLIANT! A large number of us respect you. Not so much.
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:38:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Trzzbk Edited by: Trzzbk on 13/10/2008 18:36:15
Originally by: Inanna Zuni (TANSTAAFL)
I'd say that's a good thing too, considering how you look even after having to pay for all of your lunches.
OH SNAP
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Cyrella Avok
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:38:00 -
[332]
Two words: bad idea.
Don't think only short term when wallet comes into the field.
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Dissociactive
Solar Dragons SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:38:00 -
[333]
CCP greatest gamedevelopers i've even seen
we still have desync lags, black screens and other great stuff ingame we have a lot of empire primitive fun for idiots lots of other patches for idiots as nerfs during a long time and now we have such rude thing as this topic
u're goin' right way CCP!!! i'm still proud pilot of your %U^&$^%^% game...
TNX U CCP u're best! u're doin' fun game
pew pew |
NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:38:00 -
[334]
CCP=Cash Cow Pirating
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MSC Gandalf
Minmatar The United Federation of Planets
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:38:00 -
[335]
Edited by: MSC Gandalf on 13/10/2008 18:44:26
Originally by: kublai How stupid do you think we are?
I'll be selling a character before the month ends as a result of this, with this little "balancing" issue there's no way I can afford 4 accounts, certainly not after you blew the GTC price throug the damn roof.
We'll see how long it takes me to go down to two accounts, congrats CCP, that's one less payday from me, I won't quit the game, but I will buy one gtc less per month as will many many others.
Not to mention the hundreds of people who quit eve long ago and only buy a gtc now and then to keep skilling, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
I have to say that many here are stupid, by selling you chars someone else will keep a account active. If you think that this is a threat that CCP will take seriously you are mistaken. There should be a week buffer for those who forget to renew their account and that should be it. Keep up the good work CCP. There might also be a idea to have a skill time cards that would allow you to log on to the website and put a skill in training for less money if people dont have the time or the money to play the game.
Edit: Plus since CCP gets paid for gametime in Euros and Dollars they are getting more out of it so its not like they are loosing money on this crisic in Iceland With regard Fleet Admiral MSC Gandalf The United Federation Of Planets MSC |
Finedele
Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:39:00 -
[336]
not paying for something, but getting it for free - it was just TOO good. now it isnt any more. i dont complain, i will stick with my 3 accounts.
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Shikaku
Minmatar The Cursed Navy IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:40:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Miriyaka we're making the game more expensive for your good
we're destroying entire gameplay styles for your good
we're making the game even more expensive, for your good
it's all for you, the player. we swear. it has nothing to do with our glorious golden vision or our bloated bottom line.
how full of shit can this company possibly be? this is hilariously bad.
QFT
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:40:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Finedele not paying for something, but getting it for free - it was just TOO good. now it isnt any more. i dont complain, i will stick with my 3 accounts.
CCP alt ---------------------------------------
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Cras'h
Hulks on stereoids inc
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:40:00 -
[339]
CCP need to get more money to save iceland! who cares about your guys playing with your money and lost it.. deal with it! And back to topic Your idea is so so so f*ked up!
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Bukkaboo
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:40:00 -
[340]
WTF ccp?
You give us new server tech to reduce lag and increase game performace ..and then you backstab us with this s*it ?
for god sake listen to the playerbase, atleast give us skill training queue
jesus.
goddamn.
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:40:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Blind D'Runk The question is, how many people actually let account payments slip while training those rank 8-14 skills? Complaining is a bit like complaining wow wont let you log in to grind because you haven't paid, but why should you pay as you are only macro grinding XP not actually playing the game.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.....
I've been an EVE player since March 2007, but for 4 non-consecutive months I've utilized dark training.
Training Caldari Cruiser from 4 to 5 Training Battlecruiser from 4 to 5 Training Advanced Weapon Upgrades from 4 to 5 Training Caldari Battleship from 4 to 5
Thing is, I feel I'm pretty much done with dark training. Earlier this month, I paid for a 12-month subscription, first of all because I enjoy playing EVE and I'd like to play continously now that I've created my own corporation, and secondly because I think I've done the skillz I want most badly. I personally don't need dark training any more.
But I'm still upset and unhappy about it, because it hurts new players, and I think it is likely that CCP will end up losing income, contrary to the true purpose behind this change.
-- Salpad |
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:41:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Feng Schui
Yea, lets take a look at this.
Lets say... 5k subs are perma-cancelled.
they only pay, $15 every 3 months (all 5k accounts are training rank 14 skills, all of the time).
thats what.. only $20,000 per year that they are loosing.
Set your accounts to a CC and budget for the cost as a responsible adult would and its no problem.
See that's not too hard now is it?
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:41:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Inanna Zuni News for Snarker. SUBSCRIBERS PAY.
People running 'ghost accounts' do not. They shouldn't benefit therefore!
People running 'ghost accounts' do indeed pay. Just not 100% of the time. If someone is paying for only 3 months out of every 6, they're still paying. Ghost Training isn't free, merely cheaper.
So you pay for 3 months and you get 3 months training (and playing time). makes sense. You don't pay for 3 months and you get nothing in return. seems reasonable/(TANSTAAFL)
So, overall, what is wrong with that?
If it had always been this way, golden. What we had in ghost training was a relatively unique feature that appealed to the casual player who LIKES to take breaks from Eve and come back to a slightly advanced skill.
The feature (which was apparently massively unfair to CCP, fellate them some more please) was a low cost issue that actively encouraged part-time players to keep more accounts and come back when they did unsubscribe- some of us DO unsubscribe regularly.
There's no earthly reason to take it away and not expect a backlash from those of us who have, right or wrong, grown to expect it.
Sad truth is, there will be an impact on the bottom line now and all new players will just accept that this is the way it is. It's probably good business in the long run, but it shows VERY clearly that CCP's motivations continue to be antithetical to pleasing the playerbase.
I somehow doubt it. Check the numbers for the servers. When was the last time we were above 30k ever day? This is a selling feature for eve. Cutting them away is just bad. They might see a small increase in short term but not in the long term. EVE is already tiny in comparison with others and making it less appealing is not the way to improve your bottom line.
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JUST' DAVE
LoneStar Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:41:00 -
[344]
Thank you very much for informing us whole 2 days before you patch the client.
How about you let us train all 3 chars on one account now that we are forced to have keeping our alts account active.
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Alex V0X2
Minmatar Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:42:00 -
[345]
Ccp su*k hairy dirty donkey b*llz!
\o/ |
Ocerdyn
Royal Production Society
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:43:00 -
[346]
Originally by: Trzzbk Edited by: Trzzbk on 13/10/2008 18:36:15
Originally by: Inanna Zuni (TANSTAAFL)
I'd say that's a good thing too, considering how you look even after having to pay for all of your lunches.
laffo |
Aero Zolic
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:43:00 -
[347]
First step: Remove 30 day GTC's and ask more money for 60 day GTC's. Second step: Remove training on suspended accounts. Third step: Profit.
This is just so stupid that really, let me laugh. After five years you see that it's really necessary? It seems that all you want is more money. What about people who don't have the time to play that much? Before, they at least could put a long skill to train so when they finally got back playing, they had something good waiting here. Now they just have to keep bumping the money to you to just train a skill. "This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not." Why not change the whole skill training to "the more you play the faster you learn skills"? Isn't that a good idea? Welcome to the World of Warcra ..ops World of EvE.
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:43:00 -
[348]
Originally by: MSC Gandalf
Originally by: kublai How stupid do you think we are?
I'll be selling a character before the month ends as a result of this, with this little "balancing" issue there's no way I can afford 4 accounts, certainly not after you blew the GTC price throug the damn roof.
We'll see how long it takes me to go down to two accounts, congrats CCP, that's one less payday from me, I won't quit the game, but I will buy one gtc less per month as will many many others.
Not to mention the hundreds of people who quit eve long ago and only buy a gtc now and then to keep skilling, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
I have to say that many here are stupid, by selling you chars someone else will keep a account active. If you think that this is a threat that CCP will take seriously you are mistaken. There should be a week buffer for those who forget to renew their account and that should be it. Keep up the good work CCP. There might also be a idea to have a skill time cards that would allow you to log on to the website and put a skill in training for less money if people dont have the time or the money to play the game.
We have two levels of incorrect thinking in play here. Those who think there will be no short term effect (You are the stupidest ones). There will be plenty of us who don't come back, and all of the sold characters can't and won't be subscribed from this point on.
There's the rest of us, who are ****ed, but who unfortunately don't matter at all to CCP. After the initial outburst and the relatively small number of cancelled accounts, they are expecting (probably correctly) that many of you will come back, new players will continue to subscribe, and all of those people will still pay for accounts consistently.
What remains to be seen is how much the decrease in number of alts will effect things. Once again, I'd imagine CCP has worked it out and figures more continuous subscriptions will make up for the part-time subscriptions that are going to be lost.
They're probably not dumb, just evil and clearly not looking out for us as players.
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Ghostess
United Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:43:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Elana Mosavani "iceland economy tanked, send dollars tia"
But honestly here, while I have not done so, I know many people that set long skills when an account lapses for good reasons, and the fact that the skill finishes gives them cause to come back to the game. Players that get called up for action to serve their country and can't access EVE oversees, players that know the RL is going to bog them down for the next few months; there are many reasons for letting a subscription lapse, and the fact that the skill still is in training makes them more likely to come back and play.
Think this thru a bit. If you want to put a halt to something while they're unsubbed, halt the R&D points they get.
Indeed!
In about a week one of my corp mates will be taking a break from eve. She's having what someone very aptly called an "Eve low". She is starting to get tired of the game and is taking a break. Every time she has done this she has come back within 3 days of her skill training finished because something new and exciting was waiting for her. I think we are going to lose her this time, or at the very least not see her for several months.
Had "ghost training" stayed she would start creating revenue for CCP again. Now odds are high she will not do so at all.
Also, many players who have a main account and an extra account will end up just paying for their main account and not bothering reactivating their alts. I was going to create a second account together with a friend. We were planning on doing some heavy mining together, "the four of us". Now that's completely out of the question for both of us.
That CCP is trying to hide why they are doing this also makes me feel like they are just another greedy corporation. Being honest about it would have made me feel like they are another greedy but refreshingly honest corporation and that would have made me much less likely to take offense.
Take it back, CCP! You can still change your minds and not f*ck up your earnings! (Yes, even I would have cursed now if the forum permitted it)
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:43:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Trzzbk Edited by: Trzzbk on 13/10/2008 18:36:15
Originally by: Inanna Zuni (TANSTAAFL)
I'd say that's a good thing too, considering how you look even after having to pay for all of your lunches.
rofl. But at least I pay for mine and don't expect anyone to feed me for free. Most of the bleaters here seem to think they deserve something for nothing.
IZ
(For those who don't know .. TANSTAAFL - There aint' no such thing as a free lunch)
My principles
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qRTA Over
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:44:00 -
[351]
Thks CCP , i will finally reduce my paying accounts to 1 .
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EyeCeeYou
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:44:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Lucia Warbler I think the working adults are the ones most ****ed off by this change, since they don't have the luxury of infinite time to enjoy the game.
The change has nothign to do with infinite time, its about whether or not you can train without paying to train.
The majority of ghost training is not done by typical-Joe players who hit hard times and say "well, I can knock out BS 5 while I'm gone." Most ghost training is done as 2d and 3rd and 4th accounts for the purpose of selling the high-SP account.
That has numerous gameplay effects. It causes there to be too many high-SP pilots as they can be trained up at a discount. That in turn deflates the value of the high-SP pilots who got their "by paying". It also messes up the character sale/resale market by again discounting the cost of building up a character to sell (thereby increasing supply).
This is a benefit to existing high-SP pilots because it just knocked a big chunk of up-and-coming competition out of the ballgame. If you want to train to a Titan, its gonna cost you full price, not 33% ....
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Dearth
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:44:00 -
[353]
Wow only 2 1/2 hours since the announcement and already 13 pages of whinage, this has got to be a EvE record
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Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:45:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Trzzbk Edited by: Trzzbk on 13/10/2008 18:36:15
Originally by: Inanna Zuni (TANSTAAFL)
I'd say that's a good thing too, considering how you look even after having to pay for all of your lunches.
rofl. But at least I pay for mine and don't expect anyone to feed me for free. Most of the bleaters here seem to think they deserve something for nothing.
IZ
(For those who don't know .. TANSTAAFL - There aint' no such thing as a free lunch)
First off, bleaters?
Second, GHOST TRAINING IS NOT FREE STOP SAYING IT IS FFFFFFFFFFFFFF
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
eeep
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:45:00 -
[355]
Ok..... I thought that this was already the case, I lost my subscription mid skill once and when I got it back, the skill had the same time as when i left it? |
Retardat
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:45:00 -
[356]
this will be the stupidest change of this game , will ruin the game ffs ..the ghost train was the beauty of the game ffs ...but nah ccp don't care about players just about our money , there are a lot of poor people playing eve ffs !!! we don't have bil of folors to pay our accounts and not even time to make a lot isk ...we want to ahve some fun in this game not just making isk ffs...
----------
Quote:
I'm not a pirat lol !! I LOVE CAREBEARSS <3<3<3 ☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻☻& |
Dray
Caldari The Priory
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:45:00 -
[357]
Ive had 2 acc's since eve went live that have never lapsed, ran 3 for a while but ive never ghost trained, nor does other people doing it bother me, so thank you for "thinking for me" but in future i'll keep my own council, and you lot lot can carry on f**king up your game.
Free research points now that is an issue i'd like to see addressed.
Please stop walking around with your heads stuck up your arses it isn't entertaining nor i imagine, comfortable.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:46:00 -
[358]
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:46:00 -
[359]
The logic given by the OP for this change, is faulty IMO.
If CCP is really concerned about unfairness that occurs with inactive and expired accounts, they would stop "ghost farming" of RP's for Datacores, by inactive and expired accounts.
While I have never used "ghost training", myself. It has been one of the main hooks when I convince friends to play Eve. It is nice for professionals with family to know that they can still progress in skills even when thier chaotic RL rears its ugly head.
TL;DR Utter Shit Move, CCP --
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Shani Nerkata
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:46:00 -
[360]
Originally by: MSC Gandalf I have to say that many here are stupid, by selling you chars someone else will keep a account active.
Think not : CCP will cancel the account because it was sold on eBay violating EULA
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Honeyz
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:51:00 -
[361]
Yeah... I was thinking about letting one of my accounts go, and now you've just confirmed it for me CCP. I have 3 accounts, but I really don't have time to play with all my characters at once, so ghost training was really important for me.
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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:51:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Dianeces You, my good sir, are about as intelligent as a sack of hammers.
Don't be so harsh on him, he is only the Hammer-chewer.... ----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
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Majiir Sjet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:52:00 -
[363]
Edited by: Majiir Sjet on 13/10/2008 18:52:32 Ok stop ****ing in the wind guys - if you see a stupid post don't encourage them!!!
Why oh why this latest change!?!?!!
I feel betrayed - this comes also soon after that Eve online questionaire that got emailed to us...
After some figures crunching they most decided on this action - unfortunately I will NOT be participating in any more surveys sent to me for this very reason (people who took the survey look at the questions carefully that you answered and you will understand).
Pity it's all about $$$ in the end...
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trazzy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:52:00 -
[364]
Congrats. With this decision you will lose at least one (in the past few months mostly) inactive, but sometimes paying) subscriber.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:52:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Cueball Mcfuzz
Originally by: Sarl Massai Christ's sake, Ghost Training IS NOT FREE.
it's a harmless perk that CCP taking away shows they are in it for the bucks
I have a hard time believing the number of alts cancelled will be made up for by the number of people more consistently playing full time
it's pretty dumb to say "ccp is in it for the money" because what the hell else are they supposed to be doing it for
regardless, this change will result in less money being spent so it's bad Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:53:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Salpad
I've been an EVE player since March 2007, but for 4 non-consecutive months I've utilized dark training.
Training Caldari Cruiser from 4 to 5 Training Battlecruiser from 4 to 5 Training Advanced Weapon Upgrades from 4 to 5 Training Caldari Battleship from 4 to 5
CCP
I was sent to the West coast for 45 days for business, because my 3 accounts for paid for 6 months in advance I couldn't play but my skills continued to train.
One account trained for Caldari BS 5 One account trained for Advanced Weapons 5 One account trained for Starbase Defense 5
Now the point is that if I didn't have my accounts paid for with a CC I would have just not paid, and let the accounts laps.
With all this crying, I do hope that you will look at putting in a feature that lets us with paid accounts train 2 skills back to back if we are called away. But I would have been against anything of this nature unless you first removed the unactive account training first.
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:53:00 -
[367]
Yup, CCP is condensing the player base. Getting rid of all the fluffy stuff and retaining only the loyal player base. This gives a more solid basis to calculate income and future investments without endangering a sudden, fatal drop in subscribers when the bubble burst, a new mmo comes out and all the unreliable customers flog to a new game.
From the solid basis, new fluffy stuff can be collected via Ambulation.
It's meh for the customers, sure, but I will not /emoragequitwrist, lol
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Cashandraa
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:53:00 -
[368]
I was actually suprised that they actually LET you train without paying... So I guess I'm not out anything... :D
You all have a great day!
Cash
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Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:53:00 -
[369]
Edited by: Ivor Gunn on 13/10/2008 18:53:07 just in case this wasn't clear enough
THIS IS A GIANT PILE OF **** AND THE WORST THING YOU CAN POSSIBLY DO FOR SUBSCRIBER RETENTION YOU GIANT ****ING ******S
People won't pay more money, they just won't train.
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Feriluce
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:53:00 -
[370]
I have yet to see the playerbase to agree that much on a topic yet. In these 14 pages i've yet to see a single post being actively FOR the change.
I have to agree that its a great incentive to come back, when you're taking a break. You get bored of EvE, you set a long skill, and when that skill is done you just have to reactivate to see how it works out and you're sucked back in.
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Lucia Warbler
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:53:00 -
[371]
Originally by: EyeCeeYou The change has nothign to do with infinite time, its about whether or not you can train without paying to train.
The majority of ghost training is not done by typical-Joe players who hit hard times and say "well, I can knock out BS 5 while I'm gone." Most ghost training is done as 2d and 3rd and 4th accounts for the purpose of selling the high-SP account.
I guess I'm just looking this from my own perspective. You wouldn't believe how many times my account has expired when I wasn't looking. Good thing it kept training the skill I had on... ... ...
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Netuti
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:54:00 -
[372]
It is a bad way of struggle against Lags )
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Lutiae
Gallente Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:54:00 -
[373]
OK fine, Lutiae bids farewell to EVE.
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Jayne Cobbe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:54:00 -
[374]
the usual "we listen to our players" crap put in front of the mandatory, "we need more money to keep the game alive" truth. the decision doesn't feel right to me, but that's not the point. the point is: your statement as to why you're doing it is hypocrisy and that sucks. a long overdue and much needed change would be to cut the crap and talk business instead of cheap stuff like that. it's a stunt, a very cheap one.
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Moneeh
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:54:00 -
[375]
ccp can kiss my ass :D
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:55:00 -
[376]
Edited by: Mhaerdirne Solveig on 13/10/2008 18:55:06
Originally by: Lucia Warbler
Originally by: EyeCeeYou The change has nothign to do with infinite time, its about whether or not you can train without paying to train.
The majority of ghost training is not done by typical-Joe players who hit hard times and say "well, I can knock out BS 5 while I'm gone." Most ghost training is done as 2d and 3rd and 4th accounts for the purpose of selling the high-SP account.
I guess I'm just looking this from my own perspective. You wouldn't believe how many times my account has expired when I wasn't looking. Good thing it kept training the skill I had on... ... ...
yeah it's not like they tell you or anything
(and it's not technical reasons that stop them: the mechanism to tell you clearly exists as anyone who has played a trial will tell you. ideally there would be a big counter on the character select screen that goes down as you run out of play time.) Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
D4RT N3RDiUS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:55:00 -
[377]
ccp still doing all for the money and no take care of the playerbase opinion so well ass all games and mmorpg i play wen this things starts only get one final and this is the game are gona make more andmore boring and ppl dont play it..
so ccp is gona make more "inteligent" changes to eve :) i hope you get lucky and improve the game experience so new ppl come to play becouse your old payerbase are gona leave the game becouse this thing is boring one amore time and you dont care shit about the player and in one mmorpg is all about the player.
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Riksha San
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:55:00 -
[378]
If they do this i suspend my second account for a long time.
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Masked Shopper
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:55:00 -
[379]
If you wanted more money CCP maybe you shouldnt've spent so much on that fishtank + webcam you so proudly had installed
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Nevinovat
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:55:00 -
[380]
Rihgt, EPIC FAIL ... I thnk CCP is starting to like failing all the time
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ITTigerClawIK
Amarr Shi no Koneko
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:56:00 -
[381]
if i wanted to take a break from eve for a month so that i dont burn out and get board of the game i will set a long skill train time so i have something to look fowerd to when i get back, this stops that and essentialy freezes my account so i dont have anything new to come back to, what are you going to next, stop any and all active manufacturing or research jobs?
its not really the fact that your removing "ghost training" its the fact you have given the paying customer any say in the matter wich makes me want to hurt something >_>
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:56:00 -
[382]
Wow, if this move gets rid of all these whingy little *****es who are probably the same smack talking tards occupying local in system after system then its one big bonus to the rest of us. Bring it on.
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Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:56:00 -
[383]
I'm sitting here pondering this after being here for years, and having those times when I wasn't able to pay the account on the day it was due, lapsing my account for a week or maybe two. Would have been a real shame losing training time due to dates not matching, which is what will happen now. I could see how they are going to lose a large chunk of money though, as now the charater transfers will be dropping, 20 bucks a transfer. Thinking about it, this will be a very bad move in that area alone. Let alone someone being ****ed over their account lapsing for a week or two and coming back to find Heavy guns still has two weeks.
lotsa emoragequits to come CCP, bad move. Unless that is the hidden agenda, maybe they are just tired of the EvE cluster, and are wanting the playerbase to leave on their own through small nudges.
CCP, are you just wanting to move onto somthing else? Have you forgotten your community that helped you get to where you are today?
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:56:00 -
[384]
what's the deal with CCP trying to make eve into every other mmo? do they really think the kind of people who play wow, warhammer, etc will have any interest in space spreadsheets online? no, but the several hundred thousand loyal subscribers you already have do have interest in space spreadsheets online, so cut this stupid shit out and play to your strengths.
stop homogenizing every aspect of your game, stop trying to mold it into some kind of twisted mutant hybrid of an incredibly-indepth market space sim and a bland mass-market grindfest.
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Mortis Aguila
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:57:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
(For those who don't know .. TANSTAAFL - There aint' no such thing as a free lunch)
BTW, for those who give a rat's ass about the language, it's TINSTAAFL - There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Pedantic rant over. Let the CCP Colossal Fail-bashing continue! ... (Despite the sprinkling of capitalist drones that feel squeezing every penny out of us is more important than keeping something unique to Eve alive.) ------------------------------------------- REALITY.DAT not found. Rebooting the universe. |
Pimp Mustafa
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:57:00 -
[386]
ill i have to say is
nurfbat
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:57:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Sarl Massai Christ's sake, Ghost Training IS NOT FREE.
YES IT IS!
In the past you have trained for periods of time when you didn't pay! (Everyone trains when they do pay)
My principles
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:58:00 -
[388]
35,000 people playing a game, yea we have enough players to lose due to our expensive prices and nerfing our one defining attribute as a MMO.
Excellent work CCP at covering your bums!
"We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules."
HA!
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Cristl
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:58:00 -
[389]
Ugh! Unique selling points are a *good* thing CCP.
Look at how stable the subscription figures for Eve have been over the last 4 years or so - a nice steady rise, rather than most MMOs which surge and die within a year (true, eve figures aren't huge, but the game is very niche).
I'm sure that this is partly due to the extra little enticement we have to come back, knowing that we followed a corpmate's advice and set a long skill training. Even people who use the feature to train more cheaply are still paying at least every other month (and at the most expensive short-time rate) aren't they?
I am very dubious that this is a good idea. It's also very sudden, can this be considered in a bit more depth please?
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Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:58:00 -
[390]
If it hurts business, they will re-institute it. I think really though, it's mainly going to hurt character farmers. So you're going to have to let your 4th account go. Sh!t!
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Jayne Cobbe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:58:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Miriyaka what's the deal with CCP trying to make eve into every other mmo? do they really think the kind of people who play wow, warhammer, etc will have any interest in space spreadsheets online? no, but the several hundred thousand loyal subscribers you already have do have interest in space spreadsheets online, so cut this stupid shit out and play to your strengths.
stop homogenizing every aspect of your game, stop trying to mold it into some kind of twisted mutant hybrid of an incredibly-indepth market space sim and a bland mass-market grindfest.
so say we all!
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:58:00 -
[392]
Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 13/10/2008 19:04:56
I admit I have not read the replies so I'll probably echo what others have said but:
"and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters"
FFS CCP at least be honest and admit its about MONEYMAKING and stop making up stupid excuses that insult our intelligence.
There is NO WORK between someone who gets SP and does not pay, and someone who gets SP and does not login but pays.
Also, fix the forums. It told me I can't edit my post because it doesn't belong to me.
--
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Lumen Atra
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:59:00 -
[393]
Edited by: Lumen Atra on 13/10/2008 19:00:35
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Trzzbk Edited by: Trzzbk on 13/10/2008 18:36:15
Originally by: Inanna Zuni (TANSTAAFL)
I'd say that's a good thing too, considering how you look even after having to pay for all of your lunches.
rofl. But at least I pay for mine and don't expect anyone to feed me for free. Most of the bleaters here seem to think they deserve something for nothing.
IZ
(For those who don't know .. TANSTAAFL - There aint' no such thing as a free lunch)
A couple things fatty (this is why you are obsessed with lunch right? If not, I do almost sincerely apologize):
How long has the game been out? How long has ghost training been in? What prompts the change? Why do you not grasp the fact that long term investment is better than short term? Or to put it pointedly: it isn't a free lunch because they do come back and pay, as opposed to not coming back at all. Why do you espouse this as the customers trying to get a free lunch, when in fact, CCP is doing exactly that? They are getting a free lunch because they want people that have alt accounts to keep them subscribed despite them not actually playing on them. They incur absolutely no more cost of having accounts in the database active or inactive, regardless of skill training state.
You know what is really amusing, is that you are so ignorant as to think CCP is doing something good for the customer, at that anybody that challenges must be wanting a hand out.
Here fatty: I don't want a handout. I don't have an alt account. And now, I never will even though I was debating it - and I am one of the people that leaves shit subscribed even when I take breaks. But I can still criticize their business practice because it is obvious the only goal here is to squeeze the customer base for more money. There is NO other reason.
The sad thing, is the probably will get more money in the short term, and the long term is foggy at best. As many of said, lots of people - not just people with alt accounts - sub and unsub because they can keep up with whatever reason they keep coming back. Without that ability, they lose reason, causing long term customer retention (a goal any company SHOULD have) to go down the crapper, in comparison.
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:59:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Mortis Aguila
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
(For those who don't know .. TANSTAAFL - There aint' no such thing as a free lunch)
BTW, for those who give a rat's ass about the language, it's TINSTAAFL - There is no such thing as a free lunch.
quote]
I wish you were dead
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Shao'lin
Irish Capital Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:59:00 -
[395]
Originally by: Pimp Mustafa ill i have to say is
nurfbat
quality...
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Teras Menac
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:59:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
Can I get an AMEN!!!!?
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Korvin
Gallente VooDoo Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:59:00 -
[397]
- 3 accounts for me i guess...
sometimes they were all active, sometimes not, but now its time to say goodbye.
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:00:00 -
[398]
So somebody tell me how to sell characters without getting banned, what's the preferred method
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:00:00 -
[399]
Edited by: Mhaerdirne Solveig on 13/10/2008 19:00:33
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Sarl Massai Christ's sake, Ghost Training IS NOT FREE.
YES IT IS!
In the past you have trained for periods of time when you didn't pay! (Everyone trains when they do pay)
I do not think CSM is allowed to troll, please be more careful with your remarks. Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Stella Kindle
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:00:00 -
[400]
You know who else wouldn't let accounts train while they were inactive?....Mussolini.
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Hermmann
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:00:00 -
[401]
I do agree with CCP. Those who complain are the always-going-to-be free riders of the world, trying to get benefits from other efforts.
Congratulations CCP!!!!
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:01:00 -
[402]
Originally by: Stella Kindle You know who else wouldn't let accounts train while they were inactive?....Mussolini.
*gasp*
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deadEd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:02:00 -
[403]
Good move CCP - now not only do I never want to bother rolling and maintaining alts, next time I get burned out by how unbelievably broken certain segments of this game are, I'll have no reason at all to even consider re-subbing later! Thanks for making up my mind for me, I appreciate it
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Zsani
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:02:00 -
[404]
Minus 2 account paying instant. THX money W....S !!!
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Fulber
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:02:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
Originally by: Sarl Massai Christ's sake, Ghost Training IS NOT FREE.
YES IT IS!
In the past you have trained for periods of time when you didn't pay! (Everyone trains when they do pay)
If you do not pay at any point, you cannot ghost train. Therefore, ghost training itself is not free. |
MigG176
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:02:00 -
[406]
I think CCP should leave it as it is as it will be penalizing those with a number of valid reasons why they can't log on.
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:03:00 -
[407]
Quote:
Ah, CCP - they've found a way to make people not want to make alts AND not come back from burnout periods all at once. They're like anti-geniuses.
With love from the Goonfleet forums~
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Zurtan Bayle
Minmatar The Wings of Maak
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:03:00 -
[408]
No, no, no...
I never whine about change cause EvE is evolution IMO, but THIS I think it's a real mistake. How ghost training can be damageable for active people? you can't change skills, and the most longer you can train inactive is what... 40-50day skill? less than 2 month...
Honestly, this features is one of them you made me (and lots of others) playing since 4-5 years, and I really don't understand why remove that...
Please, change your mind! |
Lukas Devdan
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:03:00 -
[409]
3 hours since this was announced, and low and behold, almost 450 replies... 150 per hour, 2.5 posts per minute since it was announced...
CCP, take what you want from this, but with my expereine in business this is gerenally called "Customer Outrage" generally leading to falling sales, and people swapping games and you, the provider, loosing more money now than you were before when you allowed "ghost training".
You may not realize this, but your customers are not idiots, and can see right through this "unfair" advantage cover story. In fact it is more benefical to play the game while trianing a skill. Seeing as how during that 30 days I would have more ISK than someone who did not play during that time.
First you ditch the 30 and 90 day GTC and jack the prices (and WOW did GTC jump in isk cost....) and now making it so people can't run several accounts without breaking their in-game or real-life bank accounts...
With another certain spaceb based MMO coming out in the next few months, one would think that you would be trying to attract NEW subscribers, and not **** off the ones they currently have. There is a certain cost in attracting new customers, that heavily outweighs giving your current loyal ones a break...
But hey, I must just be "a dumb kid" who plays video games..... right?
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Dissociactive
Solar Dragons SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:03:00 -
[410]
FEEL THE POWER OF TWO ;) great marketing system at all
instead we'll have station walk, carybear empiree wars, desync lags, black screens, nano-nerf, caldari boost and lots of other shit
me in love :) me shocked ! really
2009 year of CCP true :)
pew pew |
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Jayne Cobbe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:03:00 -
[411]
Originally by: deadEd Good move CCP - now not only do I never want to bother rolling and maintaining alts, next time I get burned out by how unbelievably broken certain segments of this game are, I'll have no reason at all to even consider re-subbing later! Thanks for making up my mind for me, I appreciate it
indeed
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Feng Schui
Minmatar Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:03:00 -
[412]
Originally by: ElanMorin6
Originally by: Feng Schui Yea, lets take a look at this.
Lets say... 5k subs are perma-cancelled.
they only pay, $15 every 3 months (all 5k accounts are training rank 14 skills, all of the time).
thats what.. only $20,000 per year that they are loosing.
I think you missed a few zeros there on your finally tally.
you're right, i was only going by each re-subscription.. its $300,000 a year they lose.
Project:Gank
Pilgrim Guide
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Fenrill Nerkata
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:03:00 -
[413]
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn CCP at least be honest and admit its about MONEYMAKING and stop making up stupid excuses that insults our intelligence.
+1
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Hermmann
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:03:00 -
[414]
Congrats, even more, as I read the bullies complaining... I think this should had happened long time before...
For those who complain: go play solitaire on your desktops...
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Lukas Devdan
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:04:00 -
[415]
But the time you write a post, its added on 10 new ones!
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Tae'Lin Hynd
Simply Planned
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:04:00 -
[416]
Oh and the Inactive part of the OP announcement.....
DOES THIS MEAN WHILE ONLY LOGGED IN!?!?!?!
IF SO, I guess you guys have cured my addiction...
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Doc Fury
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:04:00 -
[417]
So..
Does this mean we will get the chance to participate in another "EVE Customer Opinion Study" really SoonÖ?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Shao'lin
Irish Capital Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:04:00 -
[418]
Originally by: Teras Menac
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
Can I get an AMEN!!!!?
/signed....
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Terapie
Mucho Dolor The Insomniacs
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:05:00 -
[419]
You know what else this game needs to be more in line with bla bla bla...
Loosing skillpoints for everyday of inactive subcription...THEN and only THEN people will keep paying for their accs!!!
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Kuura Elson
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:05:00 -
[420]
Ok lemme get this straight...
Caldari Carrier V takes me 62 days to train (with my poor skills/implants)...
You expect someone to pay 60 days of subscription just to finish a level of skill training!?!?
I've just done a calculation, if I were to train all my level 5s in this way - I'd need like $5,000++++ worth of subscription money just to stay in this game...
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Zenofex
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:05:00 -
[421]
bad idea
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Satura
Most Wanted INC
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:05:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Terapie You know what else this game needs to be more in line with bla bla bla...
Loosing skillpoints for everyday of inactive subcription...THEN and only THEN people will keep paying for their accs!!!
I agree:D |
INF Wonderwoman
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:06:00 -
[423]
Originally by: Cristl
Look at how stable the subscription figures for Eve have been over the last 4 years or so - a nice steady rise, rather than most MMOs which surge and die within a year (true, eve figures aren't huge, but the game is very niche).
So true Cristl, link here
CCP, dont you see you had a good thing going? Other MMO's have to find ways to draw players back to the game, with your "Ghost Training" players could come back and really have fun again.
BAD IDEA
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:07:00 -
[424]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Cristl
Look at how stable the subscription figures for Eve have been over the last 4 years or so - a nice steady rise, rather than most MMOs which surge and die within a year (true, eve figures aren't huge, but the game is very niche).
So true Cristl, link here
CCP, dont you see you had a good thing going? Other MMO's have to find ways to draw players back to the game, with your "Ghost Training" players could come back and really have fun again.
BAD IDEA
This. ---------------------------------------
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squiddie
Sleeper Technology Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:07:00 -
[425]
if this only counts for gtc wise expiration i'll just reduce my 3 accounts to 2. if it means that you have to be logged on to train i'll reduce them to zero.
i can't restart the client right after DT like others which is an imbalance for european based players and training already takes too long with my maxed learnings and +5s. i will not accept if you have to be logged on for training.
cheers
Vote against the nano nerf! Don't forget to check the 'support' checkbox when replying. |
Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:08:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Hermmann Congrats, even more, as I read the bullies complaining... I think this should had happened long time before...
For those who complain: go play solitaire on your desktops...
It's impossible to say this is a good idea without being a fat, lifeless, CCP fellating jackoff.
This is a bad thing for a big chunk of your fellow players and every player should be ambivalent at the very least towards it.
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Johann Jeneau
Gallente Cricas Portuguese Korp
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:08:00 -
[427]
Edited by: Johann Jeneau on 13/10/2008 19:09:03 Edited by: Johann Jeneau on 13/10/2008 19:08:47 at least now i know what will happen when i feel burned and leave the game for a while, tks CCP this will help alot geting ppl back to your game...
I like my steaks bloody as hell |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:08:00 -
[428]
I've currently got ten accounts. I pay for those accounts via GTCs.
I occasionally miss out on paying for these accounts, as I don't use all my accounts every day. For instance, I may decide not to log on my dread accounts for a week, because we're not conducting any operations that requires dreads. The same thing goes for my other accounts. In the past, this has not affected me in a negative way, and I'm not tied up to subscriptions, which means that I can decide when to pay. I use this method for many other things as well, prefering to pre pay when possible rather than tying myself up to a subscription.
This means that I can, at any time, decide to simply not renew my accounts, rather than have to remember to cancel all my subscriptions, for all the games I play. This can be quite useful should I ever run into financial trouble, and it's a good way for me to motivate my number of accounts to my husband.
Now, for at least the past year or so, I've constantly kept my accounts paid, with a week or so at the most passing between account expiration and me renewing the account. As I like to plan my skill training in advance, I find it good to know that On Date X, my New Dread Alt will have finished Gallente Battleship 5 and is therefore able to start training for a Moros. Or, for that matter, knowing that since T2 Dreads will be released on Date Y, my builder alt will have Capital Ships Construction 5 trained by then.
Removing "Ghost Training" will screw this up. I will no longer be able to pay for the game via GTCs and be able to accurately predict my skill training. Logging onto my New Dread Alt, and finding out that I still have two weeks to go on a skill I thought would've been finished might be bothersoem enough, but logging on to my builder alt and realising that the skill I was training in preparation for the new patch got delayed because the account expired two days earlier might cost me billions in lost revenue.
As other players have stated, this will make playing multiple accounts a lot more of a hassle, which may end up in me closing one or more of said accounts. This will end up in a less fun game experience for me, and less income for CCP.
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Scorpion Woman
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:08:00 -
[429]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Cristl
Look at how stable the subscription figures for Eve have been over the last 4 years or so - a nice steady rise, rather than most MMOs which surge and die within a year (true, eve figures aren't huge, but the game is very niche).
So true Cristl, link here
CCP, dont you see you had a good thing going? Other MMO's have to find ways to draw players back to the game, with your "Ghost Training" players could come back and really have fun again.
BAD IDEA
QFT
|
Holy Cheater
Brute Force Unlimited
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:09:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Terapie You know what else this game needs to be more in line with bla bla bla...
Loosing skillpoints for everyday of inactive subcription...THEN and only THEN people will keep paying for their accs!!!
Kidnapping subscriber's wives and children will keep 'em paying. :dark_humor:
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:09:00 -
[431]
Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 13/10/2008 19:13:33
Originally by: Fulber If you do not pay at any point, you cannot ghost train. Therefore, ghost training itself is not free.
Interesting point of view, so let's take a real-world example. I take a long train journey of 500 miles. I buy a ticket which would cover me for a journey to the town about 50 miles from the start, and another for the journey from the town about 50 miles from my destination. I therefore have no ticket for the 400 miles in the middle.
According to the 'supporters' of ghost training then because I've paid for the start and end then when the ticket inspector comes along mid-journey and asks for my ticket I would be fine saying I don't have one! Get real!
You pay for what you get. You don't pay you shouldn't get.
IZ
My principles
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Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:09:00 -
[432]
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
And selling GTC for ISK and buying chars for ISKs don't upset the balance of the game? To speak only of what is sanctioned and not of what is tolerated (eBaying). I don't think I know of a biggest bunch of hypocrites than yours tbh.
Originally by: CCP Fallout
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
Is wishing you colorectal cancer against the rules? Because I really do.
If you could at least be honest once in your life and ****ing admit it's all about the money and have nothing to do with fairness. Can't you stand by your decisions and not hide behind excuses? -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
GeekWarrior
Sinister Defiance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:09:00 -
[433]
Great job CCP. You just removed the biggest incentive for players to return to the game. Next time RL comes up and I am unable to play for a month or two, why should I come back? Epic Fail
Time and Energy? You right click and train. Some effort there. I'm guessing 90%+ of all BS 5s were trained this way. Real smooth.
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Ab Tallen
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:10:00 -
[434]
Just out of curiosity - was this somehow on the CSMs agenda?
Anyways, good I didn't fall for the latest power of two thing.
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Lkptum Drtom
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:10:00 -
[435]
ohhh nice change !
Now I can save some money since I won't reactivate some of my accounts.
Good Marketing you guys have there !
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Halo Thane
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:10:00 -
[436]
I have to say this saddens me to see people accept a change like this, so easily it may no effect you but there are other game benefits that do and when they stop them to make money off you then you will complain.
I have used this benefit before, I tend to play over winter and spend a month or two over summer making sure that I dont fall behind for my return to EVE. A genuine and honest reason. I gain nothing over any one else by doing it. Using this as an excuse is a lie and CCP should appologies for showing such contempt for the intelligence of its players.
I understand this way you think you will make more money. However now in my EVE lows CCP will get nothing from me. Seems ill thought out, but that also seems to fit a pattern.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:10:00 -
[437]
Extremely stupid change, way to shoot yourself in the foot CCP !
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Sarl Massai
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:10:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
And selling GTC for ISK and buying chars for ISKs don't upset the balance of the game? To speak only of what is sanctioned and not of what is tolerated (eBaying). I don't think I know of a biggest bunch of hypocrites than yours tbh.
Originally by: CCP Fallout
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
Is wishing you colorectal cancer against the rules? Because I really do.
If you could at least be honest once in your life and ****ing admit it's all about the money and have nothing to do with fairness. Can't you stand by your decisions and not hide behind excuses?
Exagurate much?
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:11:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Ab Tallen Just out of curiosity - was this somehow on the CSMs agenda?
Anyways, good I didn't fall for the latest power of two thing.
wow completly forgot about the power of 2 ...... lol they sure made a surprise on that front My new blog ENN news
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Pheonix Ragnarok
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:11:00 -
[440]
OMG!!! WTF IS THAT SMELL?!?.... YES Ladies and Gentlement... its bullshit!
Hot Topic indeed Mr Fallout, id say you dont let eve players know your identification as you may be subject to physical violence. The whole idea behind this addition is purely cash based, the Ghost training as we know it isnt exactly ideal but it allows people to keep more than one account without having to feel a heavy amount of financial stress. Sure some people would class it as cheating and mooching, but i cant see it that way. Eve is an experience that allows you to be as active as you like, the casual player can enjoy the same skilling as the hardcore ones and having a break from a game is sometimes whats needed to get someone interested again, especially when you can come back to a healthy high tech skill. CCP should be spending time trying to find new and interesting ways to improves and add to a very interesting and unique game. Why it is that the company feels it should have to destroy a fine example of generousity and appeal to improve its bank balance? Why dont you start by allowing more methods of payment? I.E Debit Cards instead of Credit cards only? CCP arnt exactly cheap when it comes to subscriptions and the service they provide is definately second rate compared to other MMO's. Systems cant withstand populations over 100 without it going into cardiac arrest and the constant downtime? EVERY DAY? on !!!ONE SERVER!!! hardly WoW with their 250 servers or however many they have, things are just getting silly if you ask me. All these people who are saying "Dont Pay Dont Play". Just because you have a rich mommy and Daddy who pay for everything or some fancy job where you do jack shit and earn a monster salery, dont critisize the average man. This is a bonus everyone can use and shouldnt be removed.
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chiisai sakana
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:12:00 -
[441]
Maybe this is their way of saying "eve is a horrible waste of time, go do something useful with your life."
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Shao'lin
Irish Capital Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:12:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Doc Fury So..
Does this mean we will get the chance to participate in another "EVE Customer Opinion Study" really SoonÖ?
you mean that study which ends up reading like this:
"The Customer base of eve is already on a knife edge due to stupidity caused by laggy fleet fights, removal of the 30 and 90day gtc's, upcoming speed nerfs, the devs working hard on features that absolutely noone gives a hoot about ie. ambulation(a feature that will be interesting for all of 2 days and then none will be interested) ... now they ruin the chance to continue chars training when they need a short break from the game... when people get burnt out... and it happens to EVERYONE"
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:12:00 -
[443]
Originally by: Johann Jeneau
at least now i know what will happen when i feel burned and leave the game for a while, tks CCP this will help alot geting ppl back to your game...
You are just upset beause this will cut into your player base (Goon Alliance) more than the others.
I'm happy with the change and hope that CCP will put in something for the real players aka the paying base.
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Sam Neill
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:13:00 -
[444]
Originally by: Noghri ViR well here goes 2 of my alt accounts. I'll just transfer the characters that have decent skills on over to my 2 regular accounts and probably never touch the old accounts again.
Did CCP ever think about the math on this?
Let's take a look using myself as an example over a course of 6 months:
Account #1 - (I use this all the time) $34.99 * 6 months of activation = $104.97 Account #2 - (Same as #1, this is my production account) $34.99 * 6 months of activiation = $104.97 Account #3 - (I use this one to haul stuff around for my production alt and for training. I don't keep this account active all the time, but I'm resubscribing every few weesk after it lapses) $34.99 * 4 months of activation = $69.98 Account #4 - (Training account. I use this account to train up long boring skills that take a month or 3 to finish) $34.99 * 2 months of activation = $34.99
That equals a grand total of $314.91.
Now under the new system where I can't train anything after my accounts lapse, I'd probably transfer any worthwhile characters over to accounts #1 and #2 and let #3 and #4 lapse and never touch them again.
Under this new system, ccp gets a total of $209.94. A loss of $104.97 per 6 month period.
So really CCP, who was it that decided this was a good idea and what were they smoking? Could you let me know what business school they went too? I'd like to scratch that one off my list of credible institutions of higher learning.
Pretty much the same for me, but only 3 Accounts, will drop 1 Account then or move the Char to an existing account.
I do rarely post on this forum, but these news were so amazingly bad news, that i felt a strong urge to vote against this Change.
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jitasucks
The Peoples Republic of Uganda
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:13:00 -
[445]
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Chrysta Phine
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:13:00 -
[446]
Originally by: CCP Fallout will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008.
Can a Dev please clarify this?
Does this mean that people who set long skills before the patch will be able to continue the ghost training until they re-activate, whilst people whose account lapse after the patch will no longer be able to do so?
OR
will ALL ghost training stop immediately, even those accounts that lapsed before the patch?
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Juzo
Caldari Retribution Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:13:00 -
[447]
Damn everytime I try to post theres a new page. Anyway, heres hoping Jumpgate Evolution is as good as it looks!
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Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:13:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Kuura Elson Ok lemme get this straight...
Caldari Carrier V takes me 62 days to train (with my poor skills/implants)...
You expect someone to pay 60 days of subscription just to finish a level of skill training!?!?
I've just done a calculation, if I were to train all my level 5s in this way - I'd need like $5,000++++ worth of subscription money just to stay in this game...
Huh, or maybe you know, you could just... play the game, while you train?
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Leila Cross
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:13:00 -
[449]
CCP, I'm old enough and perhaps lucky enough, to have served my military time many years ago. I can log on and off whenever I choose, and i know exactly what my account will be doing next month.
Right now there are millions of men and women who have chosen to serve their countries (and their fellow man) all over the world. Many of them do not have the luxury of constant internet access, and many of them pay on a month to month basis with GTC's and cash.
Some of them don't know what their world will be like tomorrow.
I'm not asking you to scrap the entire policy. I am asking you to please reconsider your stance on this, and try to create a provision in the policy that addresses the needs of those who just might have to let an account expire because they have no other choice. |
Je2aBeL
Gallente Irish Capital Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:14:00 -
[450]
Originally by: Shao'lin
Originally by: Doc Fury So..
Does this mean we will get the chance to participate in another "EVE Customer Opinion Study" really SoonÖ?
you mean that study which ends up reading like this:
"The Customer base of eve is already on a knife edge due to stupidity caused by laggy fleet fights, removal of the 30 and 90day gtc's, upcoming speed nerfs, the devs working hard on features that absolutely noone gives a hoot about ie. ambulation(a feature that will be interesting for all of 2 days and then none will be interested) ... now they ruin the chance to continue chars training when they need a short break from the game... when people get burnt out... and it happens to EVERYONE"
signed
|
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dr00l
Minmatar The Movement
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:14:00 -
[451]
I understand that greed is met with more greed. I do however believe as most of us that you, CCP, will lose more than you gain from this in the long run and I ask you to reconsider. Me personally I have been "Ghost Training" sometimes, and I won't mind paying full-time to train my characters even though I'm a poor, unemployed, wellfare taking bum, but I know the majority of the current playerbase will mind. And I don't want to see this game go down the drain as it actually is a great deal different from other current MMO's worth mentioning.
I usually trust in a developers decisions and believe that a good game has to develop by the developers and not by players whining on the forums. Due to this I usually don't vent my feelings over things. This, however, is not something directly game-related and therefore I choose to ask you to think again.
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Shani Nerkata
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:14:00 -
[452]
This is unfair for new players. This was possible for 1st player in Eve but new one will not. I suggest CCP remore every SP characters get wile player was not paying... Equity for all.
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Flinchey
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:14:00 -
[453]
Edited by: Flinchey on 13/10/2008 19:15:23 ohhh godddd
please tell me you're kidding
please please please
i dont have enough money for another gtc upcoming
and i have a 35 freaking day skill (BC V) that i want to train in said time. or at least do like 10 days of it. (i have to paypal after i get the money even)
this may make me never play eve again. and rather than doing that long skill i'd just do a heap of skills that are probably half as useful.
CCP did you ever consider you might LOSE paying subs from this? seriously? i'm not kidding about not coming back. i love eve. but if it stops me from advancing in the game as people have done SINCE THE GAME WAS STARTED under extreme circumstances...
you must realize that money is just as important as skill points... i might be able to fly something after this 35 day skill.. but im hours of mission grinding away from it still. so its not that big a deal
this is almost like saying.. you're not allowed to make isk whilst in game with an active subscription. or not allowed to have a skill training whilst not physically in game.
people with an active sub have never done a long skill.. its a waste of money. the 60 days of sub time is used for those <20d skills... the ones where you aren't basically wasting money by training them.
EDIT: and even if i do come back... this means i may as well not ever get any >rank 4 skill to level 5.. never fly a command ship.. or any kind of cap ship.. at least not for a few years... i'll just spend the rest of my eve days doing nothing but rank 4 and below. less wasted money. im also, again, not joking about that.
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:14:00 -
[454]
CCP, we love EVE because its different, not because its expensive as $hitake to pay.
You have just screwed future NEW players, and honked off your OLD ones. Great phreaking job CCP for dict'ing it for ALL people.
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WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:14:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Shao'lin now they ruin the chance to continue chars training when they need a short break from the game... when people get burnt out... and it happens to EVERYONE"
Yeah, all the people in here with a pile of accounts deactively training long skills just need a break, they are not out to get the maximum SP for minimum money.
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:14:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan
Originally by: Hermmann Congrats, even more, as I read the bullies complaining... I think this should had happened long time before...
For those who complain: go play solitaire on your desktops...
It's impossible to say this is a good idea without being a fat, lifeless, CCP fellating jackoff.
This is a bad thing for a big chunk of your fellow players and every player should be ambivalent at the very least towards it.
Still want to know why some of you are defending this; even if it's nothing to you, it hurts others and keeping the status quo certainly doesn't hurt you. Don't enable CCP's idiotic decision making, it could be your pet issue they shit on next.
|
Mika Katon
Gallente The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:14:00 -
[457]
I have 4 accounts. Ghost training meant I could take a month off for work or school or whatever and let my accounts finish up a tedious, long skill; a skill I would never train while subscribed.
I'm just not going to train long skills anymore, and will probably shut down 2-3 of my accounts. I wish I had seen this announcement 4 hours earlier, so I could have skipped renewing the two I did.
|
sun seller
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:15:00 -
[458]
Edited by: sun seller on 13/10/2008 19:25:16 grats, you have lost 2 more accounts
it was the only advantage for me against other online games with my stress job; i had so much weeks every year where im unable to play any games. so this will be the end for me (my 2nd and 3rd Account) on eve.
and sorry, after all those ****** changes in this year, removing the 30!!!! and 90 day gtc and now this..... i will see whats going on here next weeks , but im nearly sure i will stop playing eve and remove all my accounts.
you should propberly set a GTC to 60$ to get more money instead of removing such pretty things
|
Satura
Most Wanted INC
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:15:00 -
[459]
I think you guys will lose more than you gain with this change. Study that tbh. |
Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:15:00 -
[460]
HAPPY CHRISTMAS EVE SUBSCRIBERS. YOUR PRESENT THIS YEAR? A GOOD ROGERING
|
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:15:00 -
[461]
I'm not going to read through the seventeen pages to find out if these questions have been asked and/or answered.
1) Are Research Points going to stop accumulating for inactive players? 2) Are market orders going to be taken off the market for inactive players? 3) Are member counts in corporations/alliances going to be accurately reflected for inactive players? |
Lutiae
Gallente Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:15:00 -
[462]
3 x http://corimar.com/cs.jpg
Bye forever!
|
deadEd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:15:00 -
[463]
Edited by: deadEd on 13/10/2008 19:16:00 Edited by: deadEd on 13/10/2008 19:15:39
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit You are just upset beause this will cut into your player base (Goon Alliance) more than the others.
I'm happy with the change and hope that CCP will put in something for the real players aka the paying base.
If CCP actually would have paired this change up with something for the REAL PLAYERS there would be significantly less complaining - it'd suck, but whatever.
That hasn't happened though. There's still no skill queue, you can still only train one character on an account, and now the only incentive to resub after burnout or a break has been taken away. This change gives absolutely NOTHING to any of you REAL PLAYERS and just takes away from everyone who did let accounts lapse for whatever reason (and look at the people complaining - there's segments of pretty much every side of Eve talking about how awful this change is).
|
Fulber
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:16:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 13/10/2008 19:13:33
Originally by: Fulber If you do not pay at any point, you cannot ghost train. Therefore, ghost training itself is not free.
Interesting point of view, so let's take a real-world example. I take a long train journey of 500 miles. I buy a ticket which would cover me for a journey to the town about 50 miles from the start, and another for the journey from the town about 50 miles from my destination. I therefore have no ticket for the 400 miles in the middle.
According to the 'supporters' of ghost training then because I've paid for the start and end then when the ticket inspector comes along mid-journey and asks for my ticket I would be fine saying I don't have one! Get real!
You pay for what you get. You don't pay you shouldn't get.
IZ
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Mika Katon
Gallente The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:16:00 -
[465]
I always used the "offline skill training" thing as a pitch to try and get people into the game. I know I wouldn't have started up if not for that, let alone created 3 extra accounts.
Cancelling all my alt accounts now. I'll resubscribe them once this bullshit change gets rolled back, or never if it doesn't happen.
|
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:17:00 -
[466]
Originally by: Carsidava I'm not going to read through the seventeen pages to find out if these questions have been asked and/or answered.
1) Are Research Points going to stop accumulating for inactive players? 2) Are market orders going to be taken off the market for inactive players? 3) Are member counts in corporations/alliances going to be accurately reflected for inactive players?
The only responce has been the first page. From the looks all those will stay on.
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Acqua Digit
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:17:00 -
[467]
I don't feel like to play 12 months/year eve. I have that with every mmo. When i return after a little break its nice to have another skill finished. Im doing this already over about 4 years. So what do u want CCP...turning your back to you loyal players to gain more and more money...is CCP < > Greed?
Imo, CCP, you have a fantastic game but the way you treat your customers over the years is get worser and worser especial compared to other mmo's... |
Johann Jeneau
Gallente Cricas Portuguese Korp
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:17:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit
Originally by: Johann Jeneau
at least now i know what will happen when i feel burned and leave the game for a while, tks CCP this will help alot geting ppl back to your game...
You are just upset beause this will cut into your player base (Goon Alliance) more than the others.
I'm happy with the change and hope that CCP will put in something for the real players aka the paying base.
goon? it's not that hard to check history etc...nothing against them but i was never close to being one
I'm not saying it isn't fair, i'm saying it's bad for business because it was one of main things that made ppl coming back to the game.
The only good thing in this change will probably be less lag, wich i really dont mind, what i do mind is my friends not coming back to play with me and eventually me leaving the game because of that
I like my steaks bloody as hell |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:17:00 -
[469]
Edited by: Seth Ruin on 13/10/2008 19:19:17 This entire move is a huge "F YOU" to the playerbase in my opinion. CCP knows full well the poor state of the world economy currently. Hell, my room mate had to stop playing because he lost his job.
What's to encourage players to come back if they don't have that inkling little, "Oh hey that skill I really wanted is probably done training now too..."
CCP, this is a ridiculous decision.
EDIT:
AND WTF! This has been going on for the past five years with no real ill-effects. Why is it all of a sudden a big deal? I think something like this, it is too late to change. Now you'll get newbies complaining us old players got those few free months and for cheaper!
So that's it. CPP's trying to discourage new players from joining I suppose?
Ugh.
|
ppt'cyno
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:18:00 -
[470]
I know you guys need the foreign currency, but as the UK owns Iceland now, I vote NO.
|
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Flinchey
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:18:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Mika Katon I have 4 accounts. Ghost training meant I could take a month off for work or school or whatever and let my accounts finish up a tedious, long skill; a skill I would never train while subscribed.
this is my boat exactly
Originally by: sun seller grats, you have lost 2 more accounts
Originally by: Lutiae 3 x http://corimar.com/cs.jpg
Bye forever!
HAH. i love being right.. poor ccp. wait no. ignore that last line.
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Ridickulo
Minmatar Tiger-Shrimp
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:19:00 -
[472]
I am a bit impartial here as i don't really do ghost training. I like playing too much to take a break.
That said, i suppose no one told CCP that training queues would be something the player base would like, but nothing really that important. After all, its been years without it anyway.
Training queue and ghost training cant exist together and as the CSM told CCP "We want training queues", i guess CCP went for it...
Unfortunately no one forethought this choice between skill queue training and ghost training. For the majority, the first is a luxury and the second a necessity.
In the end, CCP must be pretty ****ed with the CSM and this will make it more deaf to its recommendations in the future.
Result: Epic fail everyone, Epic fail CCP if they really go through with this. ---
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Rugs
Amarr Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:19:00 -
[473]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni A bunch of stuff...
Aren't you supposed to be like the voice of EVE-O players by being in CSM and what not? You're pretty much the only one FOR this idea and arguing with the rest...
And no, ghost training is not free, no matter how many train journeys you compare with. In fact i believe most players who use ghost training actually pay more total than the ones that don't.
|
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:19:00 -
[474]
18 pages of comments in short time, 95% negative.
Impressive. CCP, better stay close to the phones, maybe the marketing award people are calling soon --
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Krycka
Minmatar Nightmare Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:19:00 -
[475]
One more reason to quit and never come back. Im not playing that mutch any more and was thinking of a break, and come back to a fresh lvl5 skill. And now thats down the drain and the urge to reacctivate aswell. Bad move, you can call it what ever you want, the true answer is greed.
Med ett shysst jSrnr÷r kan man sls hela vSrlden med hSpnad!
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Delvardious Kaesos
Caldari Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:20:00 -
[476]
I don't really think this is a huge priority issue CCP. Let's be real here. Fix the game before you change useless stuff like this. You're making developer choices on par with SOE here. If people get burnt out from your game and don't want to play, but decide to want to set a long skill while they take time off aren't going to want to pay for the time they aren't playing and you'll ward them off. Did you train Losing Subscriptions V from Sony Online Entertainment or what? ---------------------------------------- Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes.
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Jufi Wekior
Arachnid Logistics Fate Weavers
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:20:00 -
[477]
Well, for me personally I might end up not resubbing after I take an extended break from Eve as has happened a few times in the past. Since I won't have anything I can look forward to that would make it worthwhile to resub. Consider that aspect of this "ghost training", it is an incentive for people to come back and resub.
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Beth Dei
Gallente 242nd Front
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:20:00 -
[478]
Are you TRYING to run this thing into the ground? Jesus christ.
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Jayne Cobbe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:20:00 -
[479]
sadly this thread will change nothing, they never do :(
|
Flinchey
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:21:00 -
[480]
oh. as my final post
could someone from CCP at all give a number of cancelled accounts from the time since the news was posted and then contrast to average (as im assuming on average there's growth rather than loss)
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the Burglar
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:22:00 -
[481]
Originally by: Illwill Bill Seriously Guys, CCP is running a business here. They are providing a service that we all like and want, and you are actually whining about not getting it for free?
Yea, it's true that CCP is running a business. It is not about getting it for free since we all buy our GTC. But seeing all the posts in this thread gotta make CCP wonder if it really is a good choice to stop the ghost training since they will loose lots and lots of paying accounts. In my book, it's way better to get a player to buy gametime 3-4 times a year then zip-zero-nothing-nada.
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Nex Abyssus
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:22:00 -
[482]
Just skimmed 17 pages of this topic, and yet ccp has no comment to make other than the title? I can only assume that everyone is sorting out my petition that I filed a number of days ago. I run 5 accounts, and have been playing for 3-4 years now, 4 are paid with rl cash the other funded by playing the game and getting gtc's. During my playing period, I have seen a steady alienaction with ccp and the player base. While I understand that ccp is a business, the way you guys try to mislead us with the rubbish is laugthable. I started to play warhammer online a few weeks back, great game, lots of pvp, yet to see any lag, I had am issue with game play, filed a petition, got a response within minutes, the dev/gm then spent a good ten mins chatting in game with me, asking how I was getting on and enjoying the game, true customer service, unlike this rubbish that ccp are ramming down our throats. So I guess I will be halving my accounts, 40msp & 60msp will remain inactive, till I get blored with cleaving dwarfs in two on warhammer. For those losing the will to play eve, seriously, go explore other games, they do exist. Warhammer online is rammed full of pvp, cheap sub per month, great customer service less bullshite.
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Pringlescan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:22:00 -
[483]
Calling this was made to get people to stop *****ing about the speed nerf. Also great job in giving this 2 days notice. You would of given more but you wanted the maximum number of people to resub before you pulled this crap.
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Zenst
Gallente Omniscient Order Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:22:00 -
[484]
Well having never used this and ironicly being semi-forced into using it later this year due to RL I have to say that its only going to force me out of comming back more than not, so like cheers.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:23:00 -
[485]
I wonder if CCP investigated and found most people training capital pilots only pay for a fraction of the training time.
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NRoth
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:23:00 -
[486]
This is a poor plan.
I've been playing for several years and have 5 accounts, of which only 2 stay active all the time as the others work on long skills. There is no reason for me to want to pay 2x as much for this game without significant content improvement, so your revenue from me will fall - not rise. In addition given the damage this change will do to my longer-term in-game goals I may well simply stop playing altogether.
Why doing this at all, much less doing it on short notice, is a good idea escapes me utterly. Poor PR, and worse economics.
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Masked Shopper
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:23:00 -
[487]
|
asdlkf
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:23:00 -
[488]
Well, i have 9 accounts.
I have 8 accounts that train and do research at our posses and manufacturing jobs. they are active about 50% of the time each (1 month on, 1 month inactive doing a lvl 5 rank 6 or higher skill). so, my 8 accounts are equivilent in cash flow to 4 full time accounts.
You just lost that.
good work CCP.
I'm (im sure not the only) one of the players who play the meta-game of eve online. you just killed it. I'll be moving along now.
I'm glad you will save your market share value. for now. If I was trading in futures, I'd be selling large rediculously large values of stocks in you right now.
Epic fail.
|
Snarker
Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:24:00 -
[489]
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe sadly this thread will change nothing, they never do :(
Remember the carrier nerf? If enough people post, it will change things. ----------------------------------------
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Izadi
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:24:00 -
[490]
this is going to the END.
take all what you can!
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Cleksha
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:24:00 -
[491]
Wow I actualy thought CCP cared about the players who still have problems trying to just make the 15 a month. But since you changed taht well leting an account lapse till we can afford the next installment. Skill trianing was won of the main reasons I can to this game. It took me 1 year to just get my wife to think about playing. I think you nned to not change the ghost training because you are really taking away from the bottom economy players. Remember being optimized for 56k. How about a grace period before the skill stops. I mean really I thought I was playing EVE made by CCP Not the money hungry Blizzard running WOW. I thought you trully cared about all players.
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Karina Bellac
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:24:00 -
[492]
Originally by: Poreuomai I wonder if CCP investigated and found most people training capital pilots only pay for a fraction of the training time.
Says a lot about the skill training needed for a capital ship. |
Kyd Amigo
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:24:00 -
[493]
Well the only reason i had this account was due to being able to train during downtime while i played on my main account. With this change, i'll be canceling this guy today, because it's pretty much a waste for the long training times.
Back to 1 account, thanks for the advanced warning.
|
WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:25:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Flinchey oh. as my final post
could someone from CCP at all give a number of cancelled accounts from the time since the news was posted and then contrast to average (as im assuming on average there's growth rather than loss)
Not much. Despite all the rah rah here most will renew their accounts when it comes down to it. |
Tradimar
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:25:00 -
[495]
I run three accounts. I'm not going to renew the third now. Another -1 for you CCP. For the record, I've kept all active all the time, but this has just p'd me off.
I know CCP are reading this thread as posts are getting edited by Mindstar himself. But are they listening?
|
My Joke
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:25:00 -
[496]
One would have thought Icelandic companies were more cautious these days.
Apparently not, in a bold move to squeeze more cash out of its customer base, another one is seeking a meltdown.
And CCP Fallout seems to be the king of the scoundrels with his insulting intro ' long overdue and much needed change'.
People won't pay more, but instead get less for what they want to pay, and as a result, part of the people will wander of. A simple law of economics (Gossen).
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Alleneara
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:26:00 -
[497]
Poor move, CCP, poor move. Poorest I've seen to date, in fact. It's fitting that CCP Fallout posted this new, since there will certainly be a sizeable fallout from this plain stupid decision.
I barely activated my second account due to the high GTC costs now as is. After this there's ZERO reason to activate it after it expires, and frankly I doubt there's any point in reactivating the main account either once game time runs out if this change stays. I've been mostly inactive for five months before this last week, and now I'm regretting I came back at all.
The long skills and how much time it takes to learn to do anything are ******ed to begin with, so the long skills were only good to be done when you had no time to play the game and/or not enough isk/money to pay for the account. I'm very low on both, so long skills will be left untrained in any case.
Now let's look outside EVE. I have Warhammer, Age of Conan, and World of Warcraft to turn to, not to mention all the non-MMOs out there. With this kind of behavior you're certainly making me much more likely to keep reactivating those instead of EVE. EVE has so many problems to begin with, this, for me, will be the fly breaking the camel's back.
Always before I defended CCP when people complained about lag etc. Sure, I complained about it too, but I kept saying it was just the hardware and not much could be done. And soon. But this... this is entirely stupidity on CCP's part, with no excuses of any sort to make it better.
Call this change off. For everyone's sake, or the banks won't be the only thing going down in Iceland.
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Wynteryth Fett
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:26:00 -
[498]
Originally by: Trzzbk Edited by: Trzzbk on 13/10/2008 18:24:10
Originally by: Kr3m17 I really don't see a problem in not letting expired accounts train. No other game on the planet lets you magically train when you're not paying for the game.
Name another game with the same skill training mechanic as EVE. I'll wait.
Please do the same. Name another game with the same skill training mechanic of allowing your skills to increase while you are off-line or at work.
Originally by: Illwill Bill
Seriously Guys, CCP is running a business here. They are providing a service that we all like and want, and you are actually whining about not getting it for free? Be happy about the free skill training you have already recieved, and stop whining about being forced to pay! </nerdrage>
Point to the post where people want to play for free. I'll wait.
People are outraged that they will no longer be able to Ghost Train. Ghost Training, is by definition, setting an account to train while its inactive/unpaid. Isn't that wanting part of the game for free?
Now, I do not agree with how CCP has presented the topic. I've laid into their customer service people numerous times on petitions for just using a cut and paste, non personalized answer.
While I don't see a problem with people having to pay for training, giving such short notice is pretty stupid.
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NupetietVer
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:26:00 -
[499]
I'd rather play Perfect World than this BS. As for BS, screw training Battleship 5 when that takes up my whole GTC time.
Way to skrew it up buddy!
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W3370Pi4
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:31:00 -
[500]
Forget skill queu just keep ghost training *********************************************
Vitreous Mercoxit ! What else |
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Delvardious Kaesos
Caldari Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:31:00 -
[501]
Sony Online Entertainment, did you change your name without me knowing?. ---------------------------------------- Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes.
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Jayne Cobbe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:31:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Mora Makur First, let's lets clarify:
Inactive / expired accounts = unpaid accounts If you paying and not logged in, your skills continue to train.
Ghost training, that is training a skill while not paying for the account, is at best an exploit. We were getting something for free, and now we are not. Why should you continue to accumulate skill when you are not paying for it? I'm actually angry that this exists. I am quite appreciative that they retain expired account data for as long as they do to begin with.
Those skills that take really long to get are meant to be very hard to obtain, which will require commitment and investment at the expense of other skill areas. That means you are actually going to have make the hard choice between specialist and generalist. A game with hard choices; now that's refreshing!
Every voice counts, and every opinion has a right to exist, so does yours. But the truth that's displayed by this thread is: You are the minority and the majority gets a kick in the butt. That's not the way it's supposed to be in my opinion.
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Thorexion Lynch
Gallente 101st Space Marine Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:32:00 -
[503]
Wow, way to go!!
CCP - Killing the attractiveness of EvE one feature at a time.
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Terrall
Gallente Dawn of a new Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:32:00 -
[504]
This is a good reason for me to finally quit eve and not return to this game.
THX CCP!!!
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:32:00 -
[505]
Originally by: Mora Makur First, let's lets clarify:
Inactive / expired accounts = unpaid accounts If you paying and not logged in, your skills continue to train.
Ghost training, that is training a skill while not paying for the account, is at best an exploit. We were getting something for free, and now we are not. Why should you continue to accumulate skill when you are not paying for it? I'm actually angry that this exists. I am quite appreciative that they retain expired account data for as long as they do to begin with.
Those skills that take really long to get are meant to be very hard to obtain, which will require commitment and investment at the expense of other skill areas. That means you are actually going to have make the hard choice between specialist and generalist. A game with hard choices; now that's refreshing!
Then your market orders and research points should stop as well. After all, with market orders up you can make money while your account is expired. With research points you can continue to accumulate them while your account is expired, and when you re-subscribe you come back to a fat amount of RPs that you can cash in for ISK. That is entirely inconsistent with the ghost training thing.
If CCP wants to remove ghost training then they should also remove market orders from inactive accounts, and stop inactive accounts from acquiring RPs.
Dividend payouts to inactive shareholders as well, those should be stopped. |
Randal Pax
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:32:00 -
[506]
IMO this change is the worst possible thing CCP could do, im not gonna reactivate my 2 inacitve accounts now.........
this is a deal breaker for me
|
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:33:00 -
[507]
Cut out the Dead Wood !
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Jayne Cobbe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:33:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Terrall This is a good reason for me to finally quit eve and not return to this game.
THX CCP!!!
Nah don't be like that. We get "walking in space stations" yeah!
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:33:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos Sony Online Entertainment, did you change your name without me knowing?.
Maybe Sony bought out Iceland. All of it. The whole island. |
Jesum
Amarr Warmongers
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:33:00 -
[510]
Cool
____________ [-..-] Jesum |
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Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:33:00 -
[511]
I love how the smack talking trolls in this thread crying because they cant run 12 accounts anymore are calling those of us who run one or two and pay for the privledge sad. LOLZ!
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Delvardious Kaesos
Caldari Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:34:00 -
[512]
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos Sony Online Entertainment, did you change your name without me knowing?.
Maybe Sony bought out Iceland. All of it. The whole island.
It is a very good possibility. ---------------------------------------- Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes.
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Ridickulo
Minmatar Tiger-Shrimp
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:34:00 -
[513]
Originally by: Bukkaboo
Originally by: Ri****ulo People, this is very simple!
We asked for skill queue training. Skill queue training cant coexist with ghost training. Ergo they were removing ghost training.
I say were because i don't think they will anymore. Guess skill queue training gets the ax in favour of ghost training.
Paid account = skill queue continues Not paid account = skill left training finishes up, but next skill does not continue training = no need to remove ghost training
I wholeheartedly agree but that was not what was discussed by the CSM as our request. This is just a BIG failure to comunicate on everyones half! :P ---
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Cannibal PLT
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:34:00 -
[514]
I've never had an alt, and I only own one account. That being said, I just cancelled my subscription, and have no intentions of resubscribing.
Training month-long level 5 skills without having to have your account active is one of the major selling points of Eve Online (among many others), that seperates Eve from the plethora of other MMOs. And lets not kid around, there's lots of level 5 skills you need to train to do fun things in Eve (outside of frigate swarming).
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Ramiren
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:35:00 -
[515]
20 pages and still no reply.
I've seen better customer service at NCSoft.. and THAT'S saying something.
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Nex Abyssus
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:35:00 -
[516]
Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos Sony Online Entertainment, did you change your name without me knowing?.
Maybe Sony bought out Iceland. All of it. The whole island.
It is a very good possibility.
I bought a cd from sony the other day, perhaps they used the money from that.
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Flinchey
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:35:00 -
[517]
Originally by: Caiman Graystock I love how the smack talking trolls in this thread crying because they cant run 12 accounts anymore are calling those of us who run one or two and pay for the privledge sad. LOLZ!
you run 1-2 accounts solid 12 months/year right
they run 12 accounts about 50/50 thats 6 accounts for the 12 months (averaged)
pretty sure ccp's gonna hurt at losing those 6 accounts worth of money/year. *however many people ar edoing it.
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Ellen Troy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:35:00 -
[518]
Some are saying plz give me skill queue in lieu of this...
We say screw that.
Letz see - lemme queue Cruisers 5 after Large Hybrid Guns V. wait, Cruisers 5 takes 23 days so... doh!
If there's a choice screw the queue.
SCREW THE QUEUE. SCREW THE QUEUE. |
Jel Ting
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:35:00 -
[519]
Originally by: Terrall This is a good reason for me to finally quit eve and not return to this game.
THX CCP!!!
Don't let the jumpgate hit you on your ass on the way out.
PS with the trend the way it seems it's going it's not really 30k players playing at once is it? it's like 20k people and 30k characters, extrapolate to the end and when BoB has won it really is Bob, Bob Planck and his 30K alts.
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:36:00 -
[520]
Originally by: Nex Abyssus
Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos Sony Online Entertainment, did you change your name without me knowing?.
Maybe Sony bought out Iceland. All of it. The whole island.
It is a very good possibility.
I bought a cd from sony the other day, perhaps they used the money from that.
But what did they do with the change? |
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:36:00 -
[521]
Originally by: Poreuomai I wonder if CCP investigated and found most people training capital pilots only pay for a fraction of the training time.
There's just a handful of useful skills that you could train for more than 30 days of inactivity and considering the prerequisites for them (1 year minimum, usually 2-3 years total subscription time), it's a minor perk...
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Eclair J
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:36:00 -
[522]
Originally by: Carsidava
Originally by: Mora Makur First, let's lets clarify:
Inactive / expired accounts = unpaid accounts If you paying and not logged in, your skills continue to train.
Ghost training, that is training a skill while not paying for the account, is at best an exploit. We were getting something for free, and now we are not. Why should you continue to accumulate skill when you are not paying for it? I'm actually angry that this exists. I am quite appreciative that they retain expired account data for as long as they do to begin with.
Those skills that take really long to get are meant to be very hard to obtain, which will require commitment and investment at the expense of other skill areas. That means you are actually going to have make the hard choice between specialist and generalist. A game with hard choices; now that's refreshing!
Then your market orders and research points should stop as well. After all, with market orders up you can make money while your account is expired. With research points you can continue to accumulate them while your account is expired, and when you re-subscribe you come back to a fat amount of RPs that you can cash in for ISK. That is entirely inconsistent with the ghost training thing.
If CCP wants to remove ghost training then they should also remove market orders from inactive accounts, and stop inactive accounts from acquiring RPs.
Dividend payouts to inactive shareholders as well, those should be stopped.
QFT
Yup, these players have an advantage and can generate isk when offline, drop the max length of an order to 14 days and you'll force people who put up 90 day orders to log in, it makes perfect sense. Oh and it balances things we've been complaining about for ages, really it does.
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:36:00 -
[523]
I'm going to pee on all the *redacted* in here who are in support of this for god knows what reason. The old way didn't hurt you, the new way will hurt some of your peers, and you're siding with the terrible, cheating, unresponsive Icelandic internet spaceship company.
Unbelievable.
* please refrain from using racist comments - CCP Fallout
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Traxio Nacho
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:37:00 -
[524]
Yet another great idea from CCP who appear to be more and more turning into Blizzard....... Then again its all about the green these days
If you are going to stop inactive accounts from training I hope you are going to start giving free days back for all these extended DT's which at the moment seem to be every week.
I bet CCP's next great idea will be you only train skills while you are online
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Wynteryth Fett
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:37:00 -
[525]
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda Still enjoying the whining from the ****socking ignoramuses who were never intelligent enough to take advantage of unsubscribed training, or never left the house enough to be unsubscribed, ever.
Your opinions are invalid on the basis of your poor personal choices in playing a bad game like Eve so consistently.
Inana, what in the flying **** is Taanasstaffafffall
If EVE is so bad, why the hell are you are complaining about it? Go play WOW or the SIMS or something else. Do you really need to subject everyone to your worthless whining?
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:37:00 -
[526]
Originally by: Jel Ting
Originally by: Terrall This is a good reason for me to finally quit eve and not return to this game.
THX CCP!!!
Don't let the jumpgate hit you on your ass on the way out.
Jumpgate Evolution, that looks like a good game.
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Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:37:00 -
[527]
Originally by: Mora Makur I am quite appreciative that they retain expired account data for as long as they do to begin with.
Well, who knows, maybe they'll say in a few months.... "guys, we can't keep inactive accounts saved in our database anymore for longer then 3 months. So if you're unsubscribed for 3 straight months, we'll have to terminate the account. I think the active players we'll appreciate the faster db calls this will result into..."
It will come....
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Danny Centurai
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:38:00 -
[528]
Well someone opened one big ass can of fail, not even the good stuff like the cheap stuff.
Please CCP if you are going to do something which will remove a lot of alts from EVE come up with a better excuse.
/me awaits the firesale on alts!
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Leila Cross
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:38:00 -
[529]
Edited by: Leila Cross on 13/10/2008 19:39:00 CCP, I'm sure this has entered your minds somewhere along the line. I'll do you the favor of refreshing your collective memories.
Right now you're pretty much the only game in town. That fact appears to have clouded your customer service responsiveness, and has certainly damaged your client base.
In the not so distant future you will be competing with a game that was pretty damn good in it's day. You can bet your corporate asses they will be doing everything they can to lure, entice, and plain flat out steal customers and revenue from you.
Get your sh*t together kiddies or you're gonna be feeling the economic crunch in a very big way. |
Commander Paul
Caldari People's Front Of Judea Frater Adhuc Excessum
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:38:00 -
[530]
If you dont pay your electricity bill you eat in the dark, get it ?
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Flinchey
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:38:00 -
[531]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Poreuomai I wonder if CCP investigated and found most people training capital pilots only pay for a fraction of the training time.
There's just a handful of useful skills that you could train for more than 30 days of inactivity and considering the prerequisites for them (1 year minimum, usually 2-3 years total subscription time), it's a minor perk...
i've got about 5m sp probably 3 or 4 months of active sub thereabouts. battlecruisers V: 35 days. that's just the start. i have so many long skills that i want/need. i want it. i want it badly. im no longer able to get it.
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Pbs
Pumpkin Scissors
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:38:00 -
[532]
Have an idea:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896170
Quote: I have 3 accaunts. Now a want cancel one or two of them. But a dont want loose my chars. So, if you want cancel Ghost Training - cancel transfer fee (20$), at least for month or so.
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Jantix Shafalcon
Exanimo Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:39:00 -
[533]
If you try real hard I bet you can remove all of the other things that make EVE different and better than other MMO's along with this.
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Kaurapa
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:40:00 -
[534]
as a new player i was loving eve - was just about to expand from one account to a triple to keep the game fresh and exciting while main hits the level 5 skills; currently doing mining barge level 5 which be followed by Industrial level 5... ...I thought the current set up was to allow players to be keep interested by short term gains while waiting for the long term gains to come to fruition... ...apparently not.
I have a couple of Questions:
What is inactive? 10 days without connection? 20 days without connection? 60 days without connection? please define this ccp
Will be there a grace period for accounts not upto date in payments? 2 days - a week before skill training stops? or will skill training stop bang on midnight when the account is in deficit?
I would suggest that a much more overdue and needed change is the lag in some systems during the weekend....
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Aydjile
Amarr The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:41:00 -
[535]
good move ccp!
quality vs quantity Reality exist only in our imagination. |
silentcurses
Caldari Foundation Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:41:00 -
[536]
I believe this to be an absolutley horrible idea. If you feel that you (CCP)just has to do this, how about a little better reasoning.
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Ligg Bedesman
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:41:00 -
[537]
Edited by: Ligg Bedesman on 13/10/2008 19:41:43 Dear CCP,
The Doctor of Economics you hired has Ph.lunkeD
Idiots. |
Ellen Troy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:41:00 -
[538]
Edited by: Ellen Troy on 13/10/2008 19:42:49 Cueball - don't be too harsh on those here (and the many in ingame chats) that support this. They are either young accounts, not too into Eve or don't understand fully the game mechanics and/or the wealth of careers Eve that offers.
My eyes have just opened to exploration, invention, production and training after eons spent in noob mission/ratting/pvp-ing. However with this change it's just not possible to do so unless you are super rich.
CCP - what WERE you thinking? And couldn't you have INCLUDED THIS AS A QUESTION IN YOUR TWO SURVEYS THAT YOU SENT TO US FIRST FOR FEEDBACK?
I vaguely remember the last two questions in the survey...
99. How many Eve accounts do you have?
100. Of these accounts how many are you paying by cash and not GTCs?
Greed... is good - Michael Douglas
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Jayne Cobbe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:41:00 -
[539]
604 replies in roughly 3.5 hours with about 95% against ccp, speaks for itself i think.
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Holy Cheater
Brute Force Unlimited
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:43:00 -
[540]
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe 604 replies in roughly 3.5 hours with about 95% against ccp, speaks for itself i think.
Yep. But CCP have chosen unbeatable tactics: ignorance.
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:43:00 -
[541]
Originally by: Carsidava Then your market orders and research points should stop as well. After all, with market orders up you can make money while your account is expired. With research points you can continue to accumulate them while your account is expired, and when you re-subscribe you come back to a fat amount of RPs that you can cash in for ISK. That is entirely inconsistent with the ghost training thing.
If CCP wants to remove ghost training then they should also remove market orders from inactive accounts, and stop inactive accounts from acquiring RPs.
Dividend payouts to inactive shareholders as well, those should be stopped.
This is what everyone who is in favor of this should be focusing on. CCP's explanation doesn't jive one bit with the reality of the situation. If you're against inactive training, you absolutely must be against all of these things as well or you're pretty much a damned dirty hypocrite.
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GOd SAvior
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:43:00 -
[542]
Originally by: Ramiren 20 pages and still no reply.
My bet is on silent hammer of sensorship.
While at it, remove all passive income stuff like moon mining, RPs and mining for the most part. Makes the game more balanced to the ppl who really like to work for it!
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:43:00 -
[543]
Hey CCP, maybe if you're going to drop a bombshell like this, you could at least show a little bit of respect and give more advance notice of thisgjogiusarhgoasenrhosenhosednhsehnshsdht.
Who the **** am I kidding, this is a panic play for GTC sales. Sell a pile, then go change your minds on Wednesday saying "Sorry everyone, crossed wires, we were intending to shaft the Chinese server". |
Jel Ting
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:43:00 -
[544]
Originally by: Cannibal PLT I've never had an alt, and I only own one account. That being said, I just cancelled my subscription, and have no intentions of resubscribing.
Training month-long level 5 skills without having to have your account active is one of the major selling points of Eve Online (among many others), that seperates Eve from the plethora of other MMOs. And lets not kid around, there's lots of level 5 skills you need to train to do fun things in Eve (outside of frigate swarming).
OK, wtf? Can I have your T1 frigate? Wow there are a lot of lvl 5 skills who'd have thunk it? Actually I heard a rumor that every skill had a level 5 but it's just a rumor.
Play the game FFS, ok so here is this guys training plan, train for hac, total time for Cruiser 5 is 30 days, wait for end of subscription period, set skill and walk away and not play for 30 some days? Are you kidding me? PLAY the GAME! You are going to need isk to buy that HAC and fit it, you are going to need other skills, this won't work, the only way it works is with alts, many alts alts that are being power leveled to cap ships/hulks so they can be sold for 2-4 billion isk. This is killing guys isk farming with characters and it's killing their wallet, that's why the moaning and the *****ing, nobody who plays eve and has one or 2 characters cares about this patch all the isk farmers do, well you'll have to find another way to finance that titan boys, try playing the game instead of gaming the play.
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Dr Prometheus
Caldari Gears of Construction
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:43:00 -
[545]
CCP what did you smoke? You are just killing one of your main salespoints, and luckely i am not alone. Use your brains for once.
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Jayne Cobbe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:44:00 -
[546]
Edited by: Jayne Cobbe on 13/10/2008 19:43:46 all hail the grind, for it makes ccp wealthy!
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Traxio Nacho
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:44:00 -
[547]
The great thing about Eve is the fact you could take a break or do that real life thing for a few months knowing when you come back you aren't well out of date, unlike other games you can't catch up in Eve no matter how much you play it.
So although this will probably encourage some to keep their accounts active I would guess quite afew will just not bother, thus losing just as much revenue and lets be honest this is all about making yourselves more money.
Very bad move and another step in making Eve just the same old crap as all the other MMO's
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Flinchey
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:44:00 -
[548]
Originally by: Holy Cheater
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe 604 replies in roughly 3.5 hours with about 95% against ccp, speaks for itself i think.
Yep. But CCP have chosen unbeatable tactics: ignorance.
counter attack; critical strike! 1500 damage!
*battle results screen* -1,000 gil... what?
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Mortis Aguila
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:44:00 -
[549]
Hopefully, CCP's lack of response after getting well over 600 posts, 95% negative, in 3 1/2 hours simply means they're in crisis mode and having a meeting about it right now. Not likely, though.
I would like to know how skill queueing would be addressed if ghost training is saved. ------------------------------------------- REALITY.DAT not found. Rebooting the universe. |
Konrad Wachsmann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:44:00 -
[550]
Unfortunately you know they won't listen, they never do, they just have this forum topic so they can all point and laugh "Awww they don't like our changes, that is so funny!"
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Johnatan
VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:44:00 -
[551]
/me awaits for "special abilities shop".
Sure soon enough we will see "1.5x skill training multiplier for 30 days" with some nice cost. :) Yes, CCP? How about selling tribal tempests for some Ç? Or even better, insta-jump to home station at any moment for $xx. ---- start cut here ---- Evil Thug`s alt. ----- end cut here ----- |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:45:00 -
[552]
i have done my emorage post (wich was very calm = somewhere on page 7 and now that i had time to think about it
i must say that change is nothing else but BRILLIANT and now that ive got at least somebodys attention
think about it the hordes of noobs that will never be capable of sitting in t2 ships just skill up for battleships and the odd t2 gear and then just proceed to crosstrain to other races till theyr borred of this game and leave i say its awesome! means all the older characters will be comfortably sitting on their t2 and cap ships this is also limmiting the availability of cap, especialy titan pilots!
old pvpers will be regarded as gods due to their ship flying capability old manufacturers will consolidate their accounts into 1 max 2 high sec belts will once again be populated because people will stop getting a second and third account and consolidate their usefull alts into 1 to build stuff drone regions will become interesting and fought over because minerals spawn there! ccp will continue getting money thru the traveling thru people but the overall growth of the game will come to a halt again giving us old boys who think eve has gotten too small some space again to breath
negative side effect will be that isk selling will become even more anoying but meh you cant have it all
once again bravo ccp!
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Morgan Broc
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:45:00 -
[553]
Originally by: Leila Cross Edited by: Leila Cross on 13/10/2008 19:39:00 CCP, I'm sure this has entered your minds somewhere along the line. I'll do you the favor of refreshing your collective memories.
Right now you're pretty much the only game in town. That fact appears to have clouded your customer service responsiveness, and has certainly damaged your client base.
In the not so distant future you will be competing with a game that was pretty damn good in it's day. You can bet your corporate asses they will be doing everything they can to lure, entice, and plain flat out steal customers and revenue from you.
Get your sh*t together kiddies or you're gonna be feeling the economic crunch in a very big way.
What game are you talking about?
Also yeah this is a bad idea CCP, just like the GTC changes
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Valah Ray
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:45:00 -
[554]
okay here's a good reason people should be mad. If your an old player and you already have for example trained BS to lvl 5. Then you had the chance whether you used it or not to train for free. New players will no longer have that opportunity. They are gonna feel used and betrayed by CCP and all because CCP wants more money. Many of these players especially the brand new ones are just gonna stop and walk away before they spend more money.
And whether you think the chance is good or bad. Less players means this game will suffer. And how is that good for anyone?
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deadEd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:47:00 -
[555]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett Sure looks to me like you got 3 months of training for free.
And in return i'll be indefinitely running 3 or 4 accounts once they're usable as opposed to the 1 I would have ran otherwise. That's the point some of you idiots seem to be missing.
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Fulber
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:47:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: Sarl Massai Christ's sake, Ghost Training IS NOT FREE.
How is it not free? If the account is inactive for 2 months and you log in after the 3rd month because the training is done, you've had 3 months of no paying on the account. So, you had to pay $15 to reactivate the account. In the mean time, you've gotten xxxx number of skill points for $15 that cost me $60.
Sure looks to me like you got 3 months of training for free.
"Cheaper" does not equal "free". If your reality does not agree, I have a bridge for sale. |
INF Wonderwoman
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:48:00 -
[557]
Originally by: Dr Prometheus CCP what did you smoke? You are just killing one of your main salespoints, and luckely i am not alone. Use your brains for once.
Agreed with this point. I have gotten at least three different people to play EVE mainly based on this point. They would tell me, "well I don't have a lot of time for a game like that". I would then tell them about ghost training and they would at least give it a try, as of right now all three are still playing, as for how long that continues, I don't know.
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:48:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Johnatan /me awaits for "special abilities shop".
Sure soon enough we will see "1.5x skill training multiplier for 30 days" with some nice cost. :) Yes, CCP? How about selling tribal tempests for some Ç? Or even better, insta-jump to home station at any moment for $xx.
hey, it worked for.. what was that mmo that did this? right, I can't remember because it failed miserably within the first few months because trying to squeeze cash out of your playerbase like this alienates huge swaths of existing and potential subscribers
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Tjeerd Envir
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:48:00 -
[559]
Edited by: Tjeerd Envir on 13/10/2008 19:49:22 Sad such a stupid move has to be the incentive for my first forum post.... Not sure if I'll extend my account, students usually don't have that much money. Still I'd like to thank CCP for freeing up my time
Edited for spelling
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Randal Pax
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:49:00 -
[560]
Originally by: Mortis Aguila Hopefully, CCP's lack of response after getting well over 600 posts, 95% negative, in 3 1/2 hours simply means they're in crisis mode and having a meeting about it right now. Not likely, though.
I would like to know how skill queueing would be addressed if ghost training is saved.
god i hope they are panicking about this, i couldn't be more upset.
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NupetietVer
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:49:00 -
[561]
Thank you CCP for making ME and Everyone else who Ghost Trained up to this point, Gods against the New players.
Now we 30,000 people will make your game able to compete with the millions in WoW and the free ones in PW.
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Korto Vas
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:49:00 -
[562]
Really bad idea. I like to take a break from games from time to time and this removes a big incentive to return. I hope they reconsider, it's disappointing removing one of the game's USPs like this.
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Seph Res
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:49:00 -
[563]
Edited by: Seph Res on 13/10/2008 19:52:36 thx a lot for putting finally in what made eve an exclusive of other games, i was never training when i havent paid my account, but tbh, its just a shame now that you made this, thx a lot for getting more and more money addicted while not fixing major problems at all to the game, and 200k paid accounts on a shitty server still is not satifying you from getting more money, if you want you are welcome to ban me from forums for this now...
,,I,, i hope your ships burn to ashes everytime you undock
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Sexiest Beast
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:49:00 -
[564]
Originally by: Snarker What the hell, nice work CCP, you just lost tons of subscribers.
Technically they weren't subscribing
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Aenemah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:50:00 -
[565]
Originally by: Traxio Nacho Yet another great idea from CCP who appear to be more and more turning into Blizzard....... Then again its all about the green these days [...] I bet CCP's next great idea will be you only train skills while you are online
And having you fly 32 hours of Battleship while patiently looking at the "+5 Battelship SKillpoints earned" before reaching Battleship II... And having to fire 4 334 123 400 rounds of blaster to earn the next level. And adding levels to stop those little pests with only 4 mill SP from bugging the 3 years old industrials. And maybe next one will be to wear some leather boots or helm, a dual broadaxe and... oh wait. Sounds like something known. And mostly unwanted.
I'm outta here, for some reason I smell Rare blue and Epic purple modules coming up...
_ Veni, Vidi, Warpi. I came, I saw, I warped the hell out... |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:50:00 -
[566]
Edited by: Aganola on 13/10/2008 19:52:08 Just one word:
FAIL!
Seriously: do you really need that much money??? Last time I heard your were making sh*tloads of 'em!
This is just one LESS reason for me to pay for three accounts ... or to play eve anyways... keep up like this and you'll lose 3 more acc... :(
Originally by: Seph Res thx a lot for putting finally in what made eve an exclusive of other games...
couldn't have said better... ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Traxio Nacho
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:50:00 -
[567]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: Sarl Massai Christ's sake, Ghost Training IS NOT FREE.
How is it not free? If the account is inactive for 2 months and you log in after the 3rd month because the training is done, you've had 3 months of no paying on the account. So, you had to pay $15 to reactivate the account. In the mean time, you've gotten xxxx number of skill points for $15 that cost me $60.
Sure looks to me like you got 3 months of training for free.
Yes you have extra skill points but its not like you have actually been able to play the game is it?
In Eve once you're behind in SP you can't gain more unlike other MMO's this was one good selling point for CCP that people could come back and not be too far behind, now alot of people just won't bother coming back atall.
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Commander Spectre
The Funkstars Guild
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:51:00 -
[568]
Edited by: Commander Spectre on 13/10/2008 19:52:32 "This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."
I see this as a statement that has been masked over to make it sound like someone complained instead of the truth. By changing a word here and there you can see what it is really about.
"This practice upsets the balance of CCPs wallet, and CCP employees who actively put their time and energy into working on their drinking will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not paid thier accounts."
There...now that makes sense.
I'm curiuos though... how long would it take an account to be considered as "Inactive"? 30 days? A week? 24 hours? The second you are not paid? Or does it go by how often you log in? Do we need to be logged in all the time now so we can train skills? Think of all the lag that would create by people who just don't want to loose SP. 100,000+ players logged on all the time...you think lag is bad now
I think further explaination is needed in this respect.
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Randal Pax
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:51:00 -
[569]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Dr Prometheus CCP what did you smoke? You are just killing one of your main salespoints, and luckely i am not alone. Use your brains for once.
Agreed with this point. I have gotten at least three different people to play EVE mainly based on this point. They would tell me, "well I don't have a lot of time for a game like that". I would then tell them about ghost training and they would at least give it a try, as of right now all three are still playing, as for how long that continues, I don't know.
i heartily agree on this point as well, i never thought id say it but im starting to seriously consider quitting over this terrible decision to remove the uniqueness of the game. I cant afford to keep all my accts running 30/365
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Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:51:00 -
[570]
CCP in dumb decision shocker
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Antihrist Pripravnik
Gallente The 13th Gallentean Armed Response
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:52:00 -
[571]
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 13/10/2008 19:53:27
Originally by: Ron Bacardi About time! Why should people get continued benefit from something they aren't paying for? Good move imho.
You're right, here are the benefits: - one long training skill trained afk; - no ISK; - no standings; - no Loyalty points; - no experience; - no friends/socialization; - something to come back to after RL call;
Ohhh... I see now... THAT benefits
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:52:00 -
[572]
Originally by: Sexiest Beast
Originally by: Snarker What the hell, nice work CCP, you just lost tons of subscribers.
Technically they weren't subscribing
yes, let's see, which is worth more: someone with two accounts subscribed 75% of the time (150% of one subscription) or someone with one account subscribed 100% of the time?
GHOST TRAINING IS FREE SKILLS HOLY SHIT BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE
seriously do you not understand that people actually subscribe to additional accounts and spend equal or more money because it exists?
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Dark Alex
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:52:00 -
[573]
World economic crisis hit CCP ? Thats terrible idea... People will reduce amount of accounts.
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Ron Bacardi
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:53:00 -
[574]
Edited by: Ron Bacardi on 13/10/2008 19:53:24
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Mriss
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:53:00 -
[575]
I'd say horrible timing there.
I used to train long ones while playing other online games and then come back for a month to train short skills... Now, I'm not so sure if I bother coming back each other month.
Fallout 3 coming out, I needed that month off.
Then the WoW expansion Wrath of the Lich King is coming out in a month or so...
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Moustache McGee
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:53:00 -
[576]
Ignoring any of the fifty other reasons why this is a horrible idea from a business standpoint, the justification doesn't even make any sense. EVE is based on a grind, same as any other MMO, but you grind for money, not for skills. Skills in EVE are just a horrible timesink (that can be, in turn, bypassed by having enough money to simply buy a character with everything you'd like to fly), but money is actively earned through missions, market orders, ratting, mining, moon mining, production, etc. That's what makes EVE different - leveling and xp are just there as a way to force specialization, whereas money is what makes the world go round. Nobody puts effort into making their characters progress in skills when "leveling up" is just clicking a button and logging out for a week. Everyone who is "actively [putting] their time and energy into working" is doing so for money, which can't be done effectively with a lapsed account. There are exceptions, sure, like RP, but nothing on a game-breaking scale.
tl;dr: Everyone puts in the same work for skills in the first place by pressing a button and then logging out, the guys who are actually putting in work with an active account is making money while the lapsed guy isn't, which is pretty much the entire point of the game, good job CCP
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StealthGerbils
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:53:00 -
[577]
horrible change CCP. do not go through with this PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!11
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Aenemah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:53:00 -
[578]
Originally by:
In Eve once you're behind in SP you can't gain more unlike other MMO's this was one good selling point for CCP that people could come back and not be too far behind, now alot of people just won't bother coming back atall.
This. And that's exactly why the next step is nothing more than adding levels to our characters.
Yes, I know my ennemies. Random picked: conformity. _ Veni, Vidi, Warpi. I came, I saw, I warped the hell out... |
Randal Pax
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:53:00 -
[579]
Quote: And maybe next one will be to wear some leather boots or helm, a dual broadaxe and... oh wait. Sounds like something known. And mostly unwanted.
I'm outta here, for some reason I smell Rare blue and Epic purple modules coming up...
rofl, you mean like officer and faction modules?
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daemorhedron
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:54:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
This. While I have to say that I really don't care too much about ghost training since I've never used it, this does seem like a ******ed idea. As people have pointed out, there's no difference between people who log in only to skill change on a paying account and someone leaving the game for a month and getting a 'free' skill. For those citing that this is all part of business and that it's acceptable, consider this: with existing ghost training, people always have a reason to come back to the game, and in the month that they are ghost training, they aren't using any server resources whatsoever. Seems fair to me to leave things as they are.
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Moustache McGee
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:54:00 -
[581]
Also I figured I'd let my alt lapse and get Gallente Cruiser V so he could fly an Ishtar, but I guess I'll just sell him now. Anybody in the market for a 13.5m SP drone specialist?
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Lee Wai
Delusions 0f Grandeur G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:54:00 -
[582]
- 1 Account.. --Sig--
Yaarrr them be fighting words matey! |
Kayl Breinhar
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:54:00 -
[583]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 13/10/2008 19:54:35 CSM idea. Let them remove this, but demand a Rank 8 "Advanced Learning" skill that if trained to V gives you a 50% boost on your current attributes. Most people won't train a Rank 8 to V, but even 40% would be great.
That'll make the "transition" a LOT less painful. 50% on my stats would make training a skill like Caldari BS V go from 34 1/3d to 21 1/2d. If you make skills fit more neatly into the 30d timeframe, people won't have as much of a problem with this.
Case in point, with 35.2Perc and 37.4WP, Gallente Dread V on my stats is only 32d.
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Gho Higyidr
Black Serpent Technologies Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:54:00 -
[584]
WTF. Ok If you are going to do this you damn well better bring back th 30day GTC. People DO have lives you know, they enjoy being able to take a break now and again, set a decent skill, and let it go inactive when times are tough and we can't afford your $34 every two month game. Instead you're forcing people to play and set up subs and keep them paid like a bill. I dunno, some of you may agree, some of you may say "Well if you can't afford it, don't play".
CCP stop nerfing RL money, lol, you phail utterly at making people want to play this game.
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Bad Eye
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:55:00 -
[585]
Where is admin to tell us "keep it coming guys,we are listening to ya"...NOT!
This s.h.t will hit a fan whatever we say here. Problem is..this game will lose one of its nicest features and one of the strongest qualities over other MMO's. Guys..you have enough problems with game as it is now...this rubbish will achieve nothing..well..maybe more people will quit.
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Konrad Wachsmann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:55:00 -
[586]
I won't object that ghost training isn't a cheaper way of training, but it isn't free training. It is however the ONLY reason why so many people I've run into have returned to the game. They come back and see that x level 5 has trained, feel more useful and stick around for a few months. This seems rather odd and like always the proof of such a _strong_ need for a change is stated from a lie.
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Chrysta Phine
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:55:00 -
[587]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
think about it the hordes of noobs that will never be capable of sitting in t2 ships just skill up for battleships and the odd t2 gear and then just proceed to crosstrain to other races till theyr borred of this game and leave
Unfortunately... I may end up as one of these noobs due to this. TBH, this game can get pretty boring while waiting 1 month for the next skill to finish.
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Spaceduck
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:55:00 -
[588]
I never wrote in this forum before (bad enghish) I leave here my protest this was the worse idea of all the times If implemented i stop play EVE .
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Cannibal PLT
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:55:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Jel Ting pubbie words that I think partially understood
I'm not sure what you're yammering about, but that's okay, I'll try to clarify.
I'm a casual gamer, and while I've had this account for almost two years, I'm not heavilly invested in ISK (I think the last time I had over 100mil was 6 months ago). Two things kept me here were Goonfleet's awesome newbee ops, and flying shiny new ships that did cool things, and needed time to train. The in-between was boring, because I wasn't a newbee and didn't have enough skillpoints to fly something cooler. So being able to say "train this, and I'll come back when the boring part's over while I go do something productive" was excellent. I wasn't paying to do boring crap.
Like I said, "ghost training" was a selling point. It seperated Eve from every other MMORPG. If you think that's silly, that's fine. I won't be around much longer to bug you anyway.
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Shigsy
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:56:00 -
[590]
hahaha and people laugh at me for playing wow.
THE JOKES ON YOU GUYS NOW
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Aenemah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:56:00 -
[591]
Originally by: Cannibal PLT
Like I said, "ghost training" was a selling point. It seperated Eve from every other MMORPG. If you think that's silly, that's fine. I won't be around much longer to bug you anyway.
signed. _ Veni, Vidi, Warpi. I came, I saw, I warped the hell out... |
Teh Nurffe
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:57:00 -
[592]
Pretty much everything has been said.. Nothing to add.
CCP this is a mistake
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Kayl Breinhar
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:57:00 -
[593]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 13/10/2008 19:57:03 One other thing, CCP...
...doing this right after a Power of Two promo ends? VERY Low. Bad form.
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UrbanCapt
Gallente Havoc Violence and Chaos The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:57:00 -
[594]
Oh this is a fantastic idea. It makes Age of Reckoning look even more enticing. The rise in timecards and now this. Your justification is total crap for it also. Not to mention that you guys have crappy customer service.
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Ron Bacardi
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:57:00 -
[595]
Originally by: jitasucks
Originally by: Ron Bacardi About time! Why should people get continued benefit from something they aren't paying for? Good move imho.
I can't think of any other examples where people continue to benefit from something they've stopped paying for
Think...speak.
You're paying for a service. If you stop paying for said service, you stop receiving said service.
One day, when you pay an electricity bill, you'll realize that when you stop paying, you stop getting electricity. The electricity companies dont let you write whine threads either, sorry.
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:57:00 -
[596]
Ok, let the New subscriber who dumped his hard $35 dollars on an Eve Subscription know that he has to pay another $35 to fly a Cruiser.
What the Helles? This is a videogame clownshoes!
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Angelus Damelon
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:57:00 -
[597]
the best part of this is trying to sell it as a "balancing" issue rather than a "give us more money issue" ahahhahahahahahhahahhahahahahaha
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Valah Ray
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:57:00 -
[598]
Edited by: Valah Ray on 13/10/2008 19:58:38
Originally by: jitasucks
Originally by: Ron Bacardi About time! Why should people get continued benefit from something they aren't paying for? Good move imho.
I can't think of any other examples where people continue to benefit from something they've stopped paying for
So people who sign up for Cable, Cellphone service or other services where they pay for 11months and get the 12th free should suddenly get there service cancelled because they're not paying for that month? Cause thats what CCP is now doing
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jitasucks
The Peoples Republic of Uganda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:57:00 -
[599]
Edited by: jitasucks on 13/10/2008 20:01:46
Originally by: Kaurapa
Originally by: Ron Bacardi About time! Why should people get continued benefit from something they aren't paying for? Good move imho.
The big question is why should I pay $60 to learn Cap ships 5 when hundreds of other players have got it for free... ...the unfairness of that puts me and will put lots of others of people off the game
You don't pay the $60 to train the skill, you pay the $60 to play the game. The people who didn't pay, didn't play the game for that period of time. They came back and PAID after to play the game.
The way the game works is that if you're at all inactive for any period of time, you get PENALISED, compared to the rest of the server. Given the crazy SP limit, there's no upper cap on SP and no real way to catch up once you fall behind. By allowing people to continue skilling over short (a month is short, given some people have been subbed to this game for 5 years and have paid for the vast majority of it) time, the game is playable by people whose real lives aren't as forgiving as others.
The fact that people would deactivate their account ANYWAY when they go on hiatus doesn't seem to matter to CCP, so they **** over the people who have been paying for their game because of their greed; doesn't really make people want to come back after being ****ed in the ass about it.
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Delvardious Kaesos
Caldari Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:58:00 -
[600]
I am curious why CCP has yet to respond at all within this thread.
also get rid of CSM's. They are useless. ---------------------------------------- Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes.
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21 Salvager
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:58:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Bukkaboo
Originally by: Ri****ulo People, this is very simple!
We asked for skill queue training. Skill queue training cant coexist with ghost training. Ergo they were removing ghost training.
I say were because i don't think they will anymore. Guess skill queue training gets the ax in favour of ghost training.
Paid account = skill queue continues Not paid account = skill left training finishes up, but next skill does not continue training = no need to remove ghost training
this
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Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:58:00 -
[602]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 13/10/2008 19:59:14
Certainly the more stupid move done by CCP.
I did few breaks in the past and was happy to see some long skills completed (same if I lost many days as I didn't return in Eve the day where skills were completed, maybe 20/30 days), who make the game more interresting. First time, BS V, second time, Cruiser V (so few days after, HAS), etc... who give me a new enjoyment in this game.
Eve Online, as all others MMORPGs, can become annoying with time, and make the player stop the game.
But Eve Online is the only one who permit to discover new things after a break, as the Ghost Training permit to break an annoying limit sometimes, so open new gameplays.
I just planned to do a break in one month, and train a prerequisite skill for Carriers, but as I will not be able to do this, I don't see a reason to stop the break in the future, as I would return to the last annoying statement of my account.
Welp... Do as you wish. It is not the first time that CCP disappoint me with some nerfs and it seems that CCP like do this, but this one is probably the last.
I hope that you will rollback and make some excuses to the player community in few days. ____
14/20 Revelations : Desyncs... 11/20 Trinity : BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs 10/20 1.1 : [...] + EXP shield nerf 07/20 ½ Not a single nerf + : What ?!? CCP is the real problem of EVE |
Mora Makur
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:58:00 -
[603]
Originally by: Bukkaboo
Paid account = skill queue continues Not paid account = skill left training finishes up, but next skill does not continue training = no need to remove ghost training
Well that would be fine it was just a 5 day skill, but there are skills that will span months. So yes, there is a need to to remove ghost training because it makes those 2 months skills much easier to obtain.
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:58:00 -
[604]
Originally by: Ron Bacardi Think...speak.
You're paying for a service. If you stop paying for said service, you stop receiving said service.
One day, when you pay an electricity bill, you'll realize that when you stop paying, you stop getting electricity. The electricity companies dont let you write whine threads either, sorry.
Yeah, the cost of ticking up one number in a database definitely equates to the cost of feeding a power station some more coal. |
Jogvan
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:58:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Shigsy hahaha and people laugh at me for playing wow.
THE JOKES ON YOU GUYS NOW
Think I might join you
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CliveMerric
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:59:00 -
[606]
lol, i foresee the character bazaar getting really really crowded as ppl start cashing in on the chars they cant afford to keep paying for.
Great move ccp
btw im sure we are gonna see lots of emorage quit posts for the next few days about this.
id like to know how many people view this MASSIVE change as a deal breaker..............
x for me
Clives BPC shop, Great deals!! |
Nex Abyssus
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:59:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos I am curious why CCP has yet to respond at all within this thread.
also get rid of CSM's. They are useless.
They have responded, did you not see those two fingers that were flicked?
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Mark Angel
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:59:00 -
[608]
congratulations to ccp's economic consultants.
someone of them found out that "sometimes 34$" for sub is less than 0*34 dollar. thats why "sometimes 34$" will be removed.
congrats ! you do a good job ! |
deadEd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:59:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 13/10/2008 19:57:03 One other thing, CCP...
...doing this right after a Power of Two promo ends? VERY Low. Bad form.
hahahahaha I didn't even realize that. This decision just hits whole new levels of "**** you, playerbase"
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Mael Duakal
Gallente Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:59:00 -
[610]
hey ccp, you are really getting a knack at implementing bullshit ideas...
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Nym Qyamara
Gallente Draconis Alumni World Coalition of United Armies
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:59:00 -
[611]
Personally, I never let my accounts lapse but it would be nice to have the option to put an account on hold whilst I'm on holiday or perhaps have unforeseen financial issues and still have the comfort of knowing that the skill that I last set will at least complete - so IÆd prefer ghost training to stay as it is.
In addition to this I would really like CCP to either give us a decent way into the account system from a mobile phone of some sort to allow us to change a skill when we are just unable to get to a proper computer etc... ( IIRC they mentioned this in EON #1 or #2)
I truly believe that CCP are just turning the screws to make even more money. By removing ghost training from those who do let their accounts lapse at times but leave a long skill in training - it just forces people to pay subs or their char stops training - maybe this is just fair for us all? I still don't like it even if people do just ghost train their chars and sell them.
I already hate not being able to train a secondary char on my account to a different skill set so am forced to have multiple accounts should I wish to spec chars in different areas. How about 1/2 training time for a second char or something? Give us something instead of take, take, take.
And talking about CCP and money, didn't CCP scrap the 90d and 30d in favour of a 60d? Therefore increasing prices by stealth? Money, money, money.... Shame on you CCP!
If it's not a nerf bat of some sort, it's a prices going up and now this! How about give us something for a change instead of hiking prices and nerfing the system to force people to A) have multiple accounts B) make us pay more.
So CCP, how about some compromises? Remove ghost training, but allow us to train 2nd chars at 50% gain and allow us to change skills from the online accounts page via a mobile phone browser or do what you said you would do in and write an app for mobiles to allow skill changes.
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Konrad Wachsmann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:59:00 -
[612]
Originally by: Ron Bacardi
Originally by: jitasucks
Originally by: Ron Bacardi About time! Why should people get continued benefit from something they aren't paying for? Good move imho.
I can't think of any other examples where people continue to benefit from something they've stopped paying for
Think...speak.
You're paying for a service. If you stop paying for said service, you stop receiving said service.
One day, when you pay an electricity bill, you'll realize that when you stop paying, you stop getting electricity. The electricity companies dont let you write whine threads either, sorry.
While true, what else are main selling points for EvE other than the ghost training, what seperates it from other MMOs?
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Nypon
Unseen University
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:00:00 -
[613]
Epic fail.
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Thair
Amarr Magellanic Itg GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:00:00 -
[614]
You couldn't even be diplomatic about this by allowing us to queue multiple skills in a row for subscribed accounts?
Why do we bother to complain. Nobody is reading this thread. |
Miukie
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:01:00 -
[615]
So CCP is removing one of the reason to resubscribe to Eve-Online? Good job!
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Somal Thunder
Intergalactic Peace Organization
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:01:00 -
[616]
Originally by: slip66 :/ this is going to keep people who takes breaks from returning...
This is very true. The only reason I've lasted so long is because if I get sick of the game I can stop playing it for a month and fly HAC's or use T2 autocannons the next time I think of playing EVE. If my skills stop, it totally ruins the excitement of coming back. NOT TO ****ING MENTION WHEN MY GTC RUNS OUT, I'D HATE TO LOSE 2 DAYS WORTH OF TRAINING, just because the icelandic krona is weak and it's getting harder and harder to buy euros (or subscriptions paid with euros, how's about selling EVE in krona too, jerks?
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Hsuan Tsang
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:01:00 -
[617]
Jeez, I knew the credit crunch hit hard in Iceland, but I thought it was just the banks.
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EbilC
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:01:00 -
[618]
Originally by: UrbanCapt Oh this is a fantastic idea. It makes Age of Reckoning look even more enticing. The rise in timecards and now this. Your justification is total crap for it also. Not to mention that you guys have crappy customer service.
THIS THIS THIS!!!!!!!
i just remembered that i just paid for my account for 6 more months, GOD DAMMIT!!!!
i guess it will just take me longer to quit then
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Mora Makur
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:02:00 -
[619]
Originally by: Cannibal PLT
Like I said, "ghost training" was a selling point. It seperated Eve from every other MMORPG. If you think that's silly, that's fine. I won't be around much longer to bug you anyway.
Well what this means if you have to have a paid account to train the skill when you are offline. The skill still trains when you are offline, and that still separates Eve from every other MMORPG. |
Fioreni
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:02:00 -
[620]
Originally by: Thair You couldn't even be diplomatic about this by allowing us to queue multiple skills in a row for subscribed accounts?
Why do we bother to complain. Nobody is reading this thread.
You hit the nail on the head, exactly the point, they don't read, listen or change based on player desires, they only change based on their bottom line.
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Angelus Damelon
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:02:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Angelus Damelon the best part of this is trying to sell it as a "balancing" issue rather than a "give us more money issue" ahahhahahahahahhahahhahahahahaha
seriously i cannot WAIT to "actively put their time and energy into working on my characters" by spinnin ships in station while boring skill V trains i'm gonna feel so productive and superior to people who got that skill by unsubbing!
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:03:00 -
[622]
Edited by: Mhaerdirne Solveig on 13/10/2008 20:03:01 also note that the mere existence of some crazy skills like advanced spaceship command V is what is irritating folks here. Some are pure, straight up speedbumps. Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Chrysta Phine
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:03:00 -
[623]
Originally by: CliveMerric
id like to know how many people view this MASSIVE change as a deal breaker..............
x for me
signed.
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asdlkf two
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:04:00 -
[624]
Wow. I can't keep up with the front of this thread.
I'm trying to read and catch up to what is happening, but by the time I get to the end of the page that I'm on, another whole new page of "what the hell are you thinking" posts appear...
... and I'm not even taking the time to read all the posts...
23 pages so far... in 3 hours...
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:04:00 -
[625]
Originally by: Fioreni
Originally by: Thair You couldn't even be diplomatic about this by allowing us to queue multiple skills in a row for subscribed accounts?
Why do we bother to complain. Nobody is reading this thread.
You hit the nail on the head, exactly the point, they don't read, listen or change based on player desires, they only change based on their bottom line.
For a company that's built a pretty complex game based around consequences of choices, they sure have a hard time figuring out the consequences of their own development and customer service choices.
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FarosWarrior
Amarr Sonnema
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:05:00 -
[626]
ill be person 100000 prolly to say this:
DAMNED BAD MOVE CCP
imho it doesnt balance anything
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Jesters Knight
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:05:00 -
[627]
I read about the first page and decided that since CCP didnÆt make the obvious point of why they are really doing this I will.
Money.
Iceland is on the verge of national bankruptcy, they screwed up and based there economy on massive amounts of debt and now it has come to bite them in the ass.
I saw a news story about it a few days ago and was wondering when CCP was going to screw there playerbase in order to hopefully not go down with a sinking island.
I am very sad to see this happen, I have been facing RL issues and have been unable to keep a steady active account, the only reason I re-activated was because a long skill finished, and it would give me the opportunity to one day fly the massive ships I wanted to.
This is how I got dreadnaut 5, muraders 5, and a whole list of other level 5 skills.
A foolish choice of words to say the least as to the reason. You should have told the truth, I can understand that the bank is about to eat your ass and you need to get active accounts. I wouldnÆt have liked it any more, but I could have understood it.
As soon as I am able I am logging in and unlocking my BPOÆs to sell them to make up for a large debt that I have gotten. If this does go into effect and there isnÆt something that blows me away to replace it I will have no reason to re-activate my account afterwards. (and before you ask, I donÆt have anything to give away all my gear got blown up in a POS a few weeks ago, not CCPÆs fault but another reason why I see no reason to come back)
You are trying to take one of the things that makes the game great to those who canÆt really afford the MMO addiction every month.
I know you probably donÆt care at this point, but I for one will probably be jumping to another game and will pimp that at my Sci-Fi convention next spring. I appreciate the help you gave to us a few years ago, but you have continuously ignored and screwed your players.
Remember this CCP: a negative review spreads itself quickly, a positive one stops after about 3 people and you had to pay the first.
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Flinchey
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:05:00 -
[628]
Originally by: asdlkf two Wow. I can't keep up with the front of this thread.
I'm trying to read and catch up to what is happening, but by the time I get to the end of the page that I'm on, another whole new page of "what the hell are you thinking" posts appear...
... and I'm not even taking the time to read all the posts...
23 pages so far... in 3 hours...
almost 24 by the time you posted haha i'd say half way through 25 by the time this hits.
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Konrad Wachsmann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:05:00 -
[629]
Originally by: Miriyaka
Originally by: Fioreni
Originally by: Thair You couldn't even be diplomatic about this by allowing us to queue multiple skills in a row for subscribed accounts?
Why do we bother to complain. Nobody is reading this thread.
You hit the nail on the head, exactly the point, they don't read, listen or change based on player desires, they only change based on their bottom line.
For a company that's built a pretty complex game based around consequences of choices, they sure have a hard time figuring out the consequences of their own development and customer service choices.
First time I agree with a Goon :P signed
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Tevlent
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:06:00 -
[630]
Edited by: Tevlent on 13/10/2008 20:06:01
Quote: your market orders and research points should stop as well. After all, with market orders up you can make money while your account is expired. With research points you can continue to accumulate them while your account is expired, and when you re-subscribe you come back to a fat amount of RPs that you can cash in for ISK. That is entirely inconsistent with the ghost training thing.
If CCP wants to remove ghost training then they should also remove market orders from inactive accounts, and stop inactive accounts from acquiring RPs.
Dividend payouts to inactive shareholders as well, those should be stopped.
This must be put into action if ghost training is no longer allowed. I put my time and effort into keeping my accounts subscribed, a player that is inactive should not get the same benefit of datacores and passive income at all.
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General Xenophon
Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:06:00 -
[631]
Dear gosh who thinks up these ideas? Seriously. How much harder do you have to work to make the game a royal pain in the ass for the people who play it? I returned to play after a break and it was great to have a long skill trained while I was away and the account inactive. It was really cool coming back to a trained skill.
With the economy like it is this seemingly little thing can be really helpful to some people. Why take that away from them?
There are much more important things to be working on in Eve then snipping inactive accounts' ability to train skills.
Great game, nice content, but man, I know it's harsh but stupid as hell ideas sometimes.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." - Boondock Saints |
dobi woobie
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:06:00 -
[632]
they really need money for something eve became lik 70 % more expensive for me in 3 months
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Acqua Digit
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:07:00 -
[633]
I WANT @#$%^ XP INSTEAD OF SP SINCE IM NOT EVERY MONTH ON!!!
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Thorexion Lynch
Gallente 101st Space Marine Force
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:07:00 -
[634]
Originally by: Flinchey
Originally by: asdlkf two Wow. I can't keep up with the front of this thread.
I'm trying to read and catch up to what is happening, but by the time I get to the end of the page that I'm on, another whole new page of "what the hell are you thinking" posts appear...
... and I'm not even taking the time to read all the posts...
23 pages so far... in 3 hours...
almost 24 by the time you posted haha i'd say half way through 25 by the time this hits.
Nope still fillin 24
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:07:00 -
[635]
Originally by: Tevlent
This must be put into action if ghost training is no longer allowed. I put my time and effort into keeping my accounts subscribed, a player that is inactive should not get the same benefit of datacores and passive income at all.
also, you shouldn't be able to buy timecards with isk on an inactive account, because the benefits of having isk should accrue only to paying players! Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari Katsu Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:07:00 -
[636]
As in general request:
remove ghost training to save your asses from icelandic economy suffering, okay. Not telling the actual reason, poor..
At least give us the dual skill training, to be able to set one long and one short skill.
We deserve it..
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face
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Enrico Raptor
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:07:00 -
[637]
I will stop this character , thanks CCP for that .... Most stupid idea ever .. sry
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alexandru celmare
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:07:00 -
[638]
What is the name of the competitor game?
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:07:00 -
[639]
Originally by: Miriyaka yes, let's see, which is worth more: someone with two accounts subscribed 75% of the time (150% of one subscription) or someone with one account subscribed 100% of the time?
GHOST TRAINING IS FREE SKILLS HOLY SHIT BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE
seriously do you not understand that people actually subscribe to additional accounts and spend equal or more money because it exists?
Quotin' dis, because there's a lot of ******s about... |
Commander Spectre
The Funkstars Guild
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:07:00 -
[640]
I love how they announce this only 2 days before it happens. It's obvious they have allready made up thier minds and this thread is just here to make it seem like they will do something they never do...
LISTEN TO PLAYERS
Man someone needs to hide the Stupid Pills from CCP quick.
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Jesters Knight
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:08:00 -
[641]
Originally by: CliveMerric
id like to know how many people view this MASSIVE change as a deal breaker..............
x for me
X |
Papa Ina
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:08:00 -
[642]
As an aside, I'm currently laughing at everyone who voted for Innana as CSM. Just felt I needed to mention that.
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Tevlent
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:08:00 -
[643]
Originally by: Mhaerdirne Solveig
Originally by: Tevlent
This must be put into action if ghost training is no longer allowed. I put my time and effort into keeping my accounts subscribed, a player that is inactive should not get the same benefit of datacores and passive income at all.
also, you shouldn't be able to buy timecards with isk on an inactive account, because the benefits of having isk should accrue only to paying players!
I could not agree with you more. GTC's must not be usable on an inactive account. If you want to reactivate an account they you have to pay in cold hard cash. This is the only way it can be fair to everyone.
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Spectre3353
Gallente The Python Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:08:00 -
[644]
Oh hey... Wrath of the Lich King WoW expansion comes out November 13th. Just an unrelated comment I figured I would make. ----- My Pirate Blog: http://evenewb.blogspot.com/
My Ransom Board: http://www.pcransomboard.com/ |
The Boz
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:08:00 -
[645]
Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 13/10/2008 19:59:14
Certainly the more stupid move done by CCP.
I did few breaks in the past and was happy to see some long skills completed (same if I lost many days as I didn't return in Eve the day where skills were completed, maybe 20/30 days), who make the game more interresting. First time, BS V, second time, Cruiser V (so few days after, HAS), etc... who give me a new enjoyment in this game.
Eve Online, as all others MMORPGs, can become annoying with time, and make the player stop the game.
But Eve Online is the only one who permit to discover new things after a break, as the Ghost Training permit to break an annoying limit sometimes, so open new gameplays.
I just planned to do a break in one month, and train a prerequisite skill for Carriers, but as I will not be able to do this, I don't see a reason to stop the break in the future, as I would return to the last annoying statement of my account.
Welp... Do as you wish. It is not the first time that CCP disappoint me with some nerfs and it seems that CCP like do this, but this one is probably the last.
I hope that you will rollback and make some excuses to the player community in few days.
this as well, im in the letting my account go offline for BS 5 crowd, there are a few ppl that object to this, i really dont understand why. I really would like to take a break for a month or so, and was planning on coming back after i got closer to marauders.
Now there is no point.
Im just gonna wait till ccp comes out with some more info on this. If they insist on going through with this im not going to have any incentive to come back after my 15 days i have paid are up.
(btw been playing for just short of 2 yrs now, eve is my life)
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:08:00 -
[646]
I'm SIGNING here with THREE ACCOUNTS...
DON'T FRIGGIN TELL ME THAT BECAUSE I TRIED TO BYPASS THE STUPID TIMESINK CALLED SKILL TRAINING BY PAYING FOR 3 ACCOUNTS THAT I SHOULD AT LEAST NOT GET ANY BENEFIT FROM IT!
I'm paying 300% over and get screwed hard after okt. 15th? Count me out!
Congratulations... I was paying for three accounts... when my sub ends in november I may not renew it at all... not even one of them! ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Flinchey
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:08:00 -
[647]
Originally by: Thorexion Lynch
Originally by: Flinchey
Originally by: asdlkf two Wow. I can't keep up with the front of this thread.
I'm trying to read and catch up to what is happening, but by the time I get to the end of the page that I'm on, another whole new page of "what the hell are you thinking" posts appear...
... and I'm not even taking the time to read all the posts...
23 pages so far... in 3 hours...
almost 24 by the time you posted haha i'd say half way through 25 by the time this hits.
Nope still fillin 24
this can be explained by some form of space/time dilation my friend we're already up to 26, you just dont realize it
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Shigsy
Heretic Militia
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:08:00 -
[648]
If anyone is thinking of starting wow, contact me ingame so I can send you a recruit a friend code, so I get 30d free <3
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DarklyerotiC
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:09:00 -
[649]
Since ive started to play eve ... ive seen with this one ... two of the dumbest acts ... first the GTC's change now this omg ... but the world of eve is so messed up with lag that a fewer accounts playing will bring some joy to players ... but less income to CCP uh !?
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Wani
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:09:00 -
[650]
Will this change even bring more $$$ to ccp?
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Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:09:00 -
[651]
Originally by: Spectre3353 Oh hey... Wrath of the Lich King WoW expansion comes out November 13th. Just an unrelated comment I figured I would make.
Eve subscriptions cancelled, WorLK preordered.
(Seriously)
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
FeatherDust
Caldari REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:09:00 -
[652]
Hello, dear CCP! Why don't you just cancel training, when player is not online on the server? Please add this feature ASAP. And don't forget to rename the game into World Of EVE.
Sincerely, A concerned citizen
PS: Seriously, just boost payment a bit, if you so in need of money. Because this feature is more horrible then nano and carrier nerf.
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WrathofAchilles
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:09:00 -
[653]
I'm quitting if you implement this. Shiesty. Deceitful. Plenty of honest games out there with good customer service. You know... the ones that actually give a damn if a customer leaves.
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:10:00 -
[654]
Originally by: Tevlent
Originally by: Mhaerdirne Solveig
Originally by: Tevlent
This must be put into action if ghost training is no longer allowed. I put my time and effort into keeping my accounts subscribed, a player that is inactive should not get the same benefit of datacores and passive income at all.
also, you shouldn't be able to buy timecards with isk on an inactive account, because the benefits of having isk should accrue only to paying players!
I could not agree with you more. GTC's must not be usable on an inactive account. If you want to reactivate an account they you have to pay in cold hard cash. This is the only way it can be fair to everyone.
man I'm trying to think of other awesome ways that ccp can screw up but I can't, you are gonna have to keep going Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
NupetietVer
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:10:00 -
[655]
Great, skill training is tied to my money. Money is tied to my life.
My life is NOT tied to this videogame.
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Flinchey
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:10:00 -
[656]
Originally by: Shigsy If anyone is thinking of starting wow, contact me ingame so I can send you a recruit a friend code, so I get 30d free <3
nooo
come to WAR we have cookies! and pvp.
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Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:10:00 -
[657]
Originally by: Wani Will this change even bring more $$$ to ccp?
No it will bring less, which is why we are dumbfounded
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
Wynteryth Fett
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:10:00 -
[658]
Originally by: Fulber
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: Sarl Massai Christ's sake, Ghost Training IS NOT FREE.
How is it not free? If the account is inactive for 2 months and you log in after the 3rd month because the training is done, you've had 3 months of no paying on the account. So, you had to pay $15 to reactivate the account. In the mean time, you've gotten xxxx number of skill points for $15 that cost me $60.
Sure looks to me like you got 3 months of training for free.
"Cheaper" does not equal "free". If your reality does not agree, I have a bridge for sale.
1 month paid. 3 months free. vs. 4 months paid.
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Kuger
Caldari Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:10:00 -
[659]
Wow thank you for taking away our option of playing, sometimes I personally cant pay for a month so i train a long skill so at least i will come back to the game. Good job on trying to get more money.
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Iridius Fervus
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:10:00 -
[660]
This thread is like the Blob! It doesnt stop, for anything, till it consumes itself.
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Alexandra Shurk
The Tree Licker Research and Industry Company
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:10:00 -
[661]
surely by this logic, training when you're offline should be cancelled, and your game credit should only be used up when you're online?
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Lucia Warbler
Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:10:00 -
[662]
Edited by: Lucia Warbler on 13/10/2008 20:11:39
Originally by: alexandru celmare What is the name of the competitor game?
Um... Jumpgate Evolution ? It's not finished yet, mind you. I'd give them more time to smooth the edges.
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:11:00 -
[663]
Originally by: Flinchey this can be explained by some form of space/time dilation my friend we're already up to 26, you just dont realize it
Actually, it can. It's called 'the deleted post effect'. Half the times I've hit reply on a post, it started replying to a later post because they all shifted up. Heh. Nice try at damage control CCP, but unless you're willing to scrap this thread entirely and risk enraging thousands of already-on-edge subscribers even further, there's no way you can keep up with this thread.
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FarosWarrior
Amarr Sonnema
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:11:00 -
[664]
Originally by: WrathofAchilles I'm quitting if you implement this. Shiesty. Deceitful. Plenty of honest games out there with good customer service. You know... the ones that actually give a damn if a customer leaves.
which one would that be?
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Nina Korgan
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:11:00 -
[665]
Originally by: Carsidava
Originally by: Mora Makur First, let's lets clarify:
Inactive / expired accounts = unpaid accounts If you paying and not logged in, your skills continue to train.
Ghost training, that is training a skill while not paying for the account, is at best an exploit. We were getting something for free, and now we are not. Why should you continue to accumulate skill when you are not paying for it? I'm actually angry that this exists. I am quite appreciative that they retain expired account data for as long as they do to begin with.
Those skills that take really long to get are meant to be very hard to obtain, which will require commitment and investment at the expense of other skill areas. That means you are actually going to have make the hard choice between specialist and generalist. A game with hard choices; now that's refreshing!
Then your market orders and research points should stop as well. After all, with market orders up you can make money while your account is expired. With research points you can continue to accumulate them while your account is expired, and when you re-subscribe you come back to a fat amount of RPs that you can cash in for ISK. That is entirely inconsistent with the ghost training thing.
If CCP wants to remove ghost training then they should also remove market orders from inactive accounts, and stop inactive accounts from acquiring RPs.
Dividend payouts to inactive shareholders as well, those should be stopped.
QFT
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Shigsy
Heretic Militia
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:11:00 -
[666]
Is it me or are Death Knights extremely op? AND YOU START AT 55. Pretty lame imo.
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Mora Makur
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:11:00 -
[667]
Originally by: Aganola I'm SIGNING here with THREE ACCOUNTS...
DON'T FRIGGIN TELL ME THAT BECAUSE I TRIED TO BYPASS THE STUPID TIMESINK CALLED SKILL TRAINING BY PAYING FOR 3 ACCOUNTS THAT I SHOULD AT LEAST NOT GET ANY BENEFIT FROM IT!
I'm paying 300% over and get screwed hard after okt. 15th? Count me out!
Congratulations... I was paying for three accounts... when my sub ends in november I may not renew it at all... not even one of them!
If you are willing to actually pay for three acounts, then you should be fine. Its the people who are not paying for three accounts and still getting skill that are the problem. |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:12:00 -
[668]
740 replies and CCP has still not made an official response to our complaints.
Nice to know we're loved.
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Seeker Ash
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:12:00 -
[669]
Edited by: Seeker Ash on 13/10/2008 20:12:26 Wow, 25 pages of complants. Here's one more. You'll probably still get my money, though you're losing my respect for every minute that I don't see you admitting the only reason for this change is to get more money.
You used to be cool, CCP. You had a hard ****ing game where people had to work for every bullet we wanted to shoot and you didn't seem to care how many people liked it, just how much we liked it. Which is a fine and honorable way to do great work. But you've turned from artists to businessmen, and as it turns out very bad businessman, unless this change is followed by the much-wished-for-but-previously-unthinkable skill queue. _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues." |
alexandru celmare
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:12:00 -
[670]
No really what is the name of the competitor game?
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Shigsy
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:12:00 -
[671]
Also, HAUNT IS ****ING EPIC. Im going to respec on wednesday when the new skills come out. ALSO FEAR SLOWS YOU DOWN ASWELL. OMG <3 warlock.
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Jalis Mournveil
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:12:00 -
[672]
I just went and bought Warhammer cause of this. you guys should try it.
Thanks ccp.
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Piper Halliwell
Minmatar Phantom Squad Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:12:00 -
[673]
Piper Halliwell fetches a pail of water for all you that have sand in your "sensitive" area's that needs flushing.
While I don't know why the change all the sudden, but I do understand why CCP is doing it M-O-N-E-Y! There is a reason that they are making shit loads of it and you are still living in your mothers basement. --------------------
You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
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Myk Taison
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[674]
"capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters"
hahahaha
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KremlinRed
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[675]
Originally by: NupetietVer Great, skill training is tied to my money. Money is tied to my life.
My life is NOT tied to this videogame.
Agreed, bad move CCP.
____________________________ Behold, I come as a thief... |
Konrad Wachsmann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[676]
Originally by: Miriyaka
Originally by: Flinchey this can be explained by some form of space/time dilation my friend we're already up to 26, you just dont realize it
Actually, it can. It's called 'the deleted post effect'. Half the times I've hit reply on a post, it started replying to a later post because they all shifted up. Heh. Nice try at damage control CCP, but unless you're willing to scrap this thread entirely and risk enraging thousands of already-on-edge subscribers even further, there's no way you can keep up with this thread.
Just wait, they will
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Flinchey
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[677]
Originally by: Miriyaka
Originally by: Flinchey this can be explained by some form of space/time dilation my friend we're already up to 26, you just dont realize it
Actually, it can. It's called 'the deleted post effect'. Half the times I've hit reply on a post, it started replying to a later post because they all shifted up. Heh. Nice try at damage control CCP, but unless you're willing to scrap this thread entirely and risk enraging thousands of already-on-edge subscribers even further, there's no way you can keep up with this thread.
excellent *taps fingers* my mindless babble didn't manage to make everyone think i was insane
i can't wait til it overtakes the speed nerf thread in post count. lol i give it... about 2 days. 3 at most if it cools down a tad. knowing that if this isn't resolved. the rate of posting will certainly maintain, for the most part at least..
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[678]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
FANTASTIC!
I have played - and payed - constantly for 3 years now! I dont see why someone who leaves eve, set three months skill, leave, and return are to earn skillpoints during their leave! It is unfair against those who PLAY!
Great move CCP!!!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[679]
A friend of mine used to be really active in the game, until he hit RL problems. He currently runs "ghost training" for his five or six accounts, resubbing them every now and then, to keep skill training up. This means that when he comes back, his accounts haven't fallen behind on the skill training compared to other characters the same age.
It also means that he can come back to something new. Perhaps he's finished training Dread 5, Jump Drive Calibration 5. Or, one of his alts will have become a perfect command ship pilot.
He's currently paying for three accounts on average (6 accounts at 50%), which is THREE TIMES MORE than most people pay for their MAIN game (How many WoW players have more than one account, for instance?). This is what he pays to be INACTIVE in the game. This also gives him an incentive to return (Hey, I can now fly a Black Ops!) to full paying status later on.
CCP, stop screwing your player base and give us incentives instead. Power of Two is a good thing, but it doesn't apply to those of us who already have multiple accounts. Give us multi account discounts, the ability to group accounts to a single "maintainer" account on the webpage, or other benefits instead of taking away from us.
Realise that your most loyal customers are those that HAVE multiple accounts, that take advantage of this ghost training. Realise that you're sitting on a gold mine here - how many games REALLY have a feature that encourages people to multi-account in this way? Screw the playerbase that benefits from this, and you'll end up hurting your own bottom line.
This is said from someone who can afford to run ten accounts and does so, because I make a lot of money from making sure that my most loyal customers STAY loyal to me. Consider that for a moment.
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FarosWarrior
Amarr Sonnema
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[680]
Originally by: Seth Ruin 740 replies and CCP has still not made an official response to our complaints.
Nice to know we're loved.
they dont know what to say cause th suck at making decisions that are good
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Sophronia Abiodun
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[681]
A really nice decision you've made... and right after giving us cheap Power of Two accounts, too. Real smooth.
I actually went for that crap, so now I have five months of BORING to endure. I bought a second account because my main was training Minmatar Cruiser V while inactive. I *was* planning on resubscribing the account this Wednesday but now that won't be happening.
The main selling point of this game for me was the fact that I could take a month's break and do other stuff while still advancing, then come back with renewed interest and new things to discover along with new skills.
Thanks for further ruining the game I thought I could like. I tried, I really did. But it's just not that good, no matter how I view it.
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Fulber
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[682]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: Fulber
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: Sarl Massai Christ's sake, Ghost Training IS NOT FREE.
How is it not free? If the account is inactive for 2 months and you log in after the 3rd month because the training is done, you've had 3 months of no paying on the account. So, you had to pay $15 to reactivate the account. In the mean time, you've gotten xxxx number of skill points for $15 that cost me $60.
Sure looks to me like you got 3 months of training for free.
"Cheaper" does not equal "free". If your reality does not agree, I have a bridge for sale.
1 month paid. 3 months free. vs. 4 months paid.
You're almost there, you're so close! Now, let's break that down... oh wait we can't because you can only get that free time by paying for the not-free time. So, it's not free, merely cheaper. Got it? You're so dumb. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[683]
Who ya gonna call? GHOSTBUSTERS !
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:13:00 -
[684]
I just wonder where the experienced adult management is over there, because CCP's actions pretty much forever stink of spoiled late-20s manchildren not putting any real thought into their work.
Where's the leadership??
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Mhaerdirne Solveig
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:14:00 -
[685]
Originally by: Piper Halliwell Piper Halliwell fetches a pail of water for all you that have sand in your "sensitive" area's that needs flushing.
While I don't know why the change all the sudden, but I do understand why CCP is doing it M-O-N-E-Y! There is a reason that they are making shit loads of it and you are still living in your mothers basement.
it is a pretty cool setup because it's all forex and they can buy their rapidly falling local currency with it Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Noig Lamaroz
Darwin's Contraptions
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:14:00 -
[686]
Originally by: Aeronith Edit for constructive content: Perhaps instead of having everyone complain about the change, why doesn't everyone just post the number accounts they'll be letting lapse without renewing thanks to this change.
I've already got one I've written off.
I was going to take a little break from Eve and let my main character do some 'holiday marauder V' training.. Guess not I'm not doing it then.. And since I need to keep that account active with the horrendous ISK prices ETC's are these days, I'm seriously thinking of dropping my account amount to half of the current amount :-(
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:14:00 -
[687]
Edited by: Miriyaka on 13/10/2008 20:14:16
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: Fulber
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: Sarl Massai Christ's sake, Ghost Training IS NOT FREE.
How is it not free? If the account is inactive for 2 months and you log in after the 3rd month because the training is done, you've had 3 months of no paying on the account. So, you had to pay $15 to reactivate the account. In the mean time, you've gotten xxxx number of skill points for $15 that cost me $60.
Sure looks to me like you got 3 months of training for free.
"Cheaper" does not equal "free". If your reality does not agree, I have a bridge for sale.
1 month paid. 3 months free. vs. 4 months paid.
what the shit are you training, son? titan V? nobody unsubs for three months training, hell most people don't unsub for more than a week or two. it's a courtesy and a convenience for the vast majority of the people who take advantage of it, however it also has a secondary effect of allowing people to farm up purpose-built alts more affordably. do those alts hurt CCP's bottom line? no, they help it by requiring more active accounts to sustain. there are so many reasons this change is dumb I can't settle on just one.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:14:00 -
[688]
It's about time. Maybe this will slow down the proliferation of armies of fairly obviously shared accounts with cap ship alts on them.
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Flinchey
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:14:00 -
[689]
Originally by: Konrad Wachsmann
Originally by: Miriyaka
Originally by: Flinchey this can be explained by some form of space/time dilation my friend we're already up to 26, you just dont realize it
Actually, it can. It's called 'the deleted post effect'. Half the times I've hit reply on a post, it started replying to a later post because they all shifted up. Heh. Nice try at damage control CCP, but unless you're willing to scrap this thread entirely and risk enraging thousands of already-on-edge subscribers even further, there's no way you can keep up with this thread.
Just wait, they will
and i can't wait for the banhammer or at least mutehammer.
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NupetietVer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:14:00 -
[690]
If i'm paying to skill train, then I want my hard earned money to count a 60 GTC as 60 days of playing the game. And since I couldn't play during Down Time, I want my 300 hours of Downtime credited into my account.
Curses you CCP.
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Thorexion Lynch
Gallente 101st Space Marine Force
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:14:00 -
[691]
Originally by: Iridius Fervus This thread is like the Blob! It doesnt stop, for anything, till it consumes itself.
Its Wallmart
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Sir Wolfgang
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:14:00 -
[692]
About time. Gives me a better chance to beat these "vets" in SP who don't play, just pay once in a while!
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Flinchey
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:15:00 -
[693]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan I just wonder where the experienced adult management is over there, because CCP's actions pretty much forever stink of spoiled late-20s manchildren not putting any real thought into their work.
Where's the leadership??
they only trained it to I.
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fiber0pti
the united
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:15:00 -
[694]
CCP = GREED Please resize signature to the maxim allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Myk Taison
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:15:00 -
[695]
no seriously ahahahhaahahaa
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Flinchey
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:15:00 -
[696]
Originally by: NupetietVer If i'm paying to skill train, then I want my hard earned money to count a 60 GTC as 60 days of playing the game. And since I couldn't play during Down Time, I want my 300 hours of Downtime credited into my account.
Curses you CCP.
doooo eeet.
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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:15:00 -
[697]
Originally by: Myk Taison "capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters"
hahahaha
Ok then CCP (Vaguely related to the above quote), I demand that for all the time I have paid you give me the skill points when I couldn't train due to work/downtimes/life matters.
See it doesn't quite gel does it? ----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
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Ed Rush
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:16:00 -
[698]
Originally by: Nina Korgan
Originally by: Carsidava
Originally by: Mora Makur First, let's lets clarify:
Inactive / expired accounts = unpaid accounts If you paying and not logged in, your skills continue to train.
Ghost training, that is training a skill while not paying for the account, is at best an exploit. We were getting something for free, and now we are not. Why should you continue to accumulate skill when you are not paying for it? I'm actually angry that this exists. I am quite appreciative that they retain expired account data for as long as they do to begin with.
Those skills that take really long to get are meant to be very hard to obtain, which will require commitment and investment at the expense of other skill areas. That means you are actually going to have make the hard choice between specialist and generalist. A game with hard choices; now that's refreshing!
Then your market orders and research points should stop as well. After all, with market orders up you can make money while your account is expired. With research points you can continue to accumulate them while your account is expired, and when you re-subscribe you come back to a fat amount of RPs that you can cash in for ISK. That is entirely inconsistent with the ghost training thing.
If CCP wants to remove ghost training then they should also remove market orders from inactive accounts, and stop inactive accounts from acquiring RPs.
Dividend payouts to inactive shareholders as well, those should be stopped.
QFT
yeah I totally agree that these research points and market orders should be on hold for the account inactivity time period.
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Ithnolin
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:16:00 -
[699]
Could you people whine just a little more? I don't think there is enough cheese on the moon to go with all this whining. Waaaahhhh...I actually have to pay to play a game, waaaahhhh. I wanted to play a game without paying, wahhhhaaahha.
GET OVER IT!!!. At least you can still skill up when you are not playing, unlike WOW, EQ, AOC, WAR...as long as you PAY for a subscription. How many of you whiny *******s are crying cause they cant go grind and hack''n'slash through WOW without paying for their subscription?
Awwww, you can't afford to actually pay for your 5 accounts at one time so you are just gonna quit, cause you can't skill up while not paying for your subscriptions. GOOD RIDDENCE!!!!
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Chad Awesomelaser
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:17:00 -
[700]
Originally by: Carsidava Then your market orders and research points should stop as well. After all, with market orders up you can make money while your account is expired. With research points you can continue to accumulate them while your account is expired, and when you re-subscribe you come back to a fat amount of RPs that you can cash in for ISK. That is entirely inconsistent with the ghost training thing.
If CCP wants to remove ghost training then they should also remove market orders from inactive accounts, and stop inactive accounts from acquiring RPs.
Dividend payouts to inactive shareholders as well, those should be stopped.
Exactly
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Myk Taison
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:17:00 -
[701]
* Please don't spam the thread with images - CCP Fallout
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:17:00 -
[702]
Originally by: Iridius Fervus PLEASE STOP POSTING MORE THAN ONCE!
THE MORE UNIQUE POSTS THE BETTER!
Get out. More posts please, let's keep this thing trucking at top speed! |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:17:00 -
[703]
Originally by: fiber0pti CCP = GREED
No: FAIR!
Honestly, if you want to train, then you pay subscription!
If you have to leave, you stop training, when you wants to return, you return, and starts from where you ended! THAT is fair to those of us who do PAY and PLAY!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:18:00 -
[704]
Edited by: Imiarr Timshae on 13/10/2008 20:18:19
Originally by: CCP Fallout
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
Aka : "We're going to **** you over, but we're not going to let you be angry about it."
Thanks CCP, as a university student at the lower end of the income ladder, I can't afford a full subscription. Anyway, now I will get horribly behind others.
Lesson : Don't try, become unemployed and play Eve off the Welfare state.
<3 CCP
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Garion Avarr
Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:18:00 -
[705]
I suppose how I can see how this is needed to prevent abuse of skill queues . . . if such things existed. Is this a sign that you're about to give us those?
If not, this is something of a bad move, in my opinion. Yes, people abused this to some extent, but it had benefits. Some people might use it to be able to afford to play multiple accounts, I know I've considered that. Some people used it to be able to afford to play Eve at all. Some people simply had a bad month or two when they couldn't afford the subscription fee, or just couldn't play Eve, and knowing that a skill was training while they were gone gave them reason to come back when they could.
The economy is having a bit of trouble right now, and I'm sure there are some people wondering if they might need to stop paying for Eve for a while. I know I'm thinking that I might have to let one or more of my accounts lapse for money reasons. But with skills no longer training while the account is lapsed, that's one less reason to reactivate when one can afford Eve again.
In short: bad timing, CCP, and aside from the timing: either make this change the day you add skill queues, or don't make this change at all. ________________________________ This is not a signature. |
Olipnius
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:18:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema A friend of mine used to be really active in the game, until he hit RL problems. He currently runs "ghost training" for his five or six accounts, resubbing them every now and then, to keep skill training up. This means that when he comes back, his accounts haven't fallen behind on the skill training compared to other characters the same age.
It also means that he can come back to something new. Perhaps he's finished training Dread 5, Jump Drive Calibration 5. Or, one of his alts will have become a perfect command ship pilot.
He's currently paying for three accounts on average (6 accounts at 50%), which is THREE TIMES MORE than most people pay for their MAIN game (How many WoW players have more than one account, for instance?). This is what he pays to be INACTIVE in the game. This also gives him an incentive to return (Hey, I can now fly a Black Ops!) to full paying status later on.
CCP, stop screwing your player base and give us incentives instead. Power of Two is a good thing, but it doesn't apply to those of us who already have multiple accounts. Give us multi account discounts, the ability to group accounts to a single "maintainer" account on the webpage, or other benefits instead of taking away from us.
Realise that your most loyal customers are those that HAVE multiple accounts, that take advantage of this ghost training. Realise that you're sitting on a gold mine here - how many games REALLY have a feature that encourages people to multi-account in this way? Screw the playerbase that benefits from this, and you'll end up hurting your own bottom line.
This is said from someone who can afford to run ten accounts and does so, because I make a lot of money from making sure that my most loyal customers STAY loyal to me. Consider that for a moment.
Good response.
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Little Nublet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:18:00 -
[707]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan I just wonder where the experienced adult management is over there, because CCP's actions pretty much forever stink of spoiled late-20s manchildren not putting any real thought into their work.
Where's the leadership??
As a fairly intelligent late-20s manchild who is able to see how stupid this move is, I take offense to this remark.
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Iridius Fervus
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:19:00 -
[708]
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Iridius Fervus PLEASE STOP POSTING MORE THAN ONCE!
THE MORE UNIQUE POSTS THE BETTER!
Get out. More posts please, let's keep this thing trucking at top speed!
TOUCHE!
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Jayne Cobbe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:19:00 -
[709]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: fiber0pti CCP = GREED
No: FAIR!
Honestly, if you want to train, then you pay subscription!
If you have to leave, you stop training, when you wants to return, you return, and starts from where you ended! THAT is fair to those of us who do PAY and PLAY!
Then let us stop invention/production and stuff too and see how fair works out in the long term.
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Sharingla
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:19:00 -
[710]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan I just wonder where the experienced adult management is over there, because CCP's actions pretty much forever stink of spoiled late-20s manchildren not putting any real thought into their work.
Where's the leadership??
they haven't trained that yet.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:19:00 -
[711]
I approve of the change.
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Sureau
Caldari N'Th'Rack Squadron Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:19:00 -
[712]
CCP hf seems to be in needs of accounting liquidities. It was told the wallet is safe but...
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Znathsume
Caldari imperial support inc
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:19:00 -
[713]
hmmm to think that i reactivated my account a few days ago so i could change my skill after a long one finished....once my account runs out next month, unless this changes then i wont be resubscribing.
GTC change really hit me hard (i found it cheaper to pay for 30 dyas then i do with 60) this is the final straw for me.
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the Burglar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:19:00 -
[714]
Originally by: alexandru celmare No really what is the name of the competitor game?
Yea, I want to know too please.
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:20:00 -
[715]
Also : What is even the point?!
They'll not change this no matter how many of us complain that its an idea clearly thought up by Grade-A ****wits.
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kaike
Minmatar The Artisan Collective
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:20:00 -
[716]
Yea h then i also vote give us skill que ow wait i'm nit late in this overwelming whine topic
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Shigsy
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:20:00 -
[717]
Edited by: Shigsy on 13/10/2008 20:19:51 "We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules."
Roger
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:20:00 -
[718]
We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following... |
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FarosWarrior
Amarr Sonnema
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:20:00 -
[719]
EVE is about the only MMO that has usefullness for 2 or more accounts since you can have 1 train and the other to play with, training one either being active or not, doesnt matter.
lots of people will either:
Gb2WoW
or
G2Wow/WAR/whatever
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Furnak Tye
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:20:00 -
[720]
WTF, Seriously CCP do you hate us that f'ing much that you decide it fun to **** us off every other month?
------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE |
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Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:20:00 -
[721]
The amount of money that will be lost when people decide it isn't worth ever subscribing an account will be hilarious.
People get bored with your laggy, frustrating game and they set a long skill, then they resubscribe giving you money. If they can't come back to something new they will never give you money.
Good luck with this. I guess my alt account will be canceled instead of resubscribed.
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Shigsy
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:20:00 -
[722]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
1st
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Juzo
Caldari Retribution Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:21:00 -
[723]
Originally by: Myk Taison * Please don't spam the thread with images - CCP Fallout
well thats one way to get an official in here
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:21:00 -
[724]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Type faster then. Wednesday is not very far off. Advance warning for our respected playerbaskfjasorgunasgrnalrugnalruhg. |
FarosWarrior
Amarr Sonnema
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:21:00 -
[725]
Originally by: Shigsy
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
1st
no i was
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Pnuka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:21:00 -
[726]
I like the changes and think they are best for the future of Eve.
Vote McCain/Palin '08
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Kaurapa
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:21:00 -
[727]
Originally by: Ed Rush
Originally by: Nina Korgan
Originally by: Carsidava
Originally by: Mora Makur First, let's lets clarify:
Inactive / expired accounts = unpaid accounts If you paying and not logged in, your skills continue to train.
Ghost training, that is training a skill while not paying for the account, is at best an exploit. We were getting something for free, and now we are not. Why should you continue to accumulate skill when you are not paying for it? I'm actually angry that this exists. I am quite appreciative that they retain expired account data for as long as they do to begin with.
Those skills that take really long to get are meant to be very hard to obtain, which will require commitment and investment at the expense of other skill areas. That means you are actually going to have make the hard choice between specialist and generalist. A game with hard choices; now that's refreshing!
Then your market orders and research points should stop as well. After all, with market orders up you can make money while your account is expired. With research points you can continue to accumulate them while your account is expired, and when you re-subscribe you come back to a fat amount of RPs that you can cash in for ISK. That is entirely inconsistent with the ghost training thing.
If CCP wants to remove ghost training then they should also remove market orders from inactive accounts, and stop inactive accounts from acquiring RPs.
Dividend payouts to inactive shareholders as well, those should be stopped.
QFT
yeah I totally agree that these research points and market orders should be on hold for the account inactivity time period.
Companies run by inactive accounts should also be foreclosed
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Skraut
ElitistOps GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:22:00 -
[728]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
So basically, as usual, someone decided to have a forum rep post about an insanely inflammatory negative change right before you try to soften the blow with some mediocre conciliatory feature?
Gosh, where have I seen this before.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:22:00 -
[729]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Will said blog include information on the proper ways to demand it NOT be implemented?
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Daevien Steiner
ZipZoom Kaboom Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:23:00 -
[730]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
You mean, the "we need more money and we thought this would do it" reason?
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Cheru'bael
Amarr Ordo Ministorum
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:24:00 -
[731]
wow. even cellphone companies don't screw you this bad.
___________________________________________ http://omnm.info |
Jesters Knight
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:24:00 -
[732]
CCP, all I can say about this topic is this:
EPIC FAIL
Highsec POS's Skip the wait and research in the fast lane |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:24:00 -
[733]
Originally by: Mora Makur
Originally by: Aganola I'm SIGNING here with THREE ACCOUNTS...
DON'T FRIGGIN TELL ME THAT BECAUSE I TRIED TO BYPASS THE STUPID TIMESINK CALLED SKILL TRAINING BY PAYING FOR 3 ACCOUNTS THAT I SHOULD AT LEAST NOT GET ANY BENEFIT FROM IT!
I'm paying 300% over and get screwed hard after okt. 15th? Count me out!
Congratulations... I was paying for three accounts... when my sub ends in november I may not renew it at all... not even one of them!
If you are willing to actually pay for three acounts, then you should be fine. Its the people who are not paying for three accounts and still getting skill that are the problem.
no what I am trying to say is that I LOVE EVE but I have to take shortcuts so that I can get what I want (industry / pvp / pve)...
But in the time period of 3 months the cost of keeping up ONE eve account has risen by 30-40% percent (3month sub-> 2month sub + national currency sucks), and with this "feature" I will not be able to afford three accounts.
Sure I can spend my time and money with something "better" like friends and real life, things that do not take a 1 hour downtime but force me pay for 24 hours of "account readiness"...
The timesink called skilltraining could only be diverted by having multiple accounts with shifting on/off subscription.
As one guy before said: this was ONE of the main selling point for me in eve... If I wanted to have a game that needs my constant input, I'd convert myself to a 13 year old boy with pickles and would pay world of *eve*craft...
Seriosly... this game was not for those kind of people. If you want to balance something - balance those friggin' spider guys who ret their way up to the heavens of ISKmacro...
Jesus! ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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CliveMerric
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:24:00 -
[734]
/signed Clives BPC shop, Great deals!! |
Maconha
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:24:00 -
[735]
http://www.jumpgateevolution.com/
it¦s starting and seams nice.. see u all there.
just try it.. u may like it.
|
Sharingla
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:24:00 -
[736]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
you seem to have your priorities mixed 1) inform people 2) apply changes
even the Mongols knew that first you ravish and then you burn not the other way around.
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Mora Makur
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:24:00 -
[737]
So I see people presuming this is about money, then saying that they will lose money. If anything, this probably tells me that this might actually be about balancing the game and NOT about money.
How does this balance the game? It makes advanced skills harder to get and it makes the player evaluate if its really worth it (rather than taking the easy way out and 'ghost training'). |
Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:24:00 -
[738]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
But see, it doesnt matter why, as that reason is obvious. It's still a bad change, why is that hard to understand? It doesnt matter what you think, you dont pay yourselves. If the playerbase thinks it's a bad idea, then we're the ones who stop paying
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
Mael Duakal
Gallente Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:24:00 -
[739]
Edited by: Mael Duakal on 13/10/2008 20:25:24
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
If that's true (and the blog will not only contain shit), you really should take some public relations lessons. Personally i don't believe, that you will come up with a good reason.
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:24:00 -
[740]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
As soon as it's ready? So, Thursday then? |
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Alekanderu
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:25:00 -
[741]
This is probably the single dumbest decision I've ever seen ccp make; not only does it hurt the whole playerbase, it will also hurt CCP itself financially. They'll end up making LESS money in the long run than otherwise. Frankly the only sensible reason I can see for them to do this is that they want to wring as much money as possible out of Eve before it dies; but even that doesn't make any sense since Eve (currently) isn't a dying game at all. More likely it's just a really stupid decision by some upper management type with very poor business sense.
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: fiber0pti CCP = GREED
No: FAIR!
Honestly, if you want to train, then you pay subscription!
If you have to leave, you stop training, when you wants to return, you return, and starts from where you ended! THAT is fair to those of us who do PAY and PLAY!
if this was WoW, and there was a way to somehow buy XP or slowly gain it while not subscribed somehow, what you're saying would perhaps make sense, but right now i'm going to go ahead and assume this is a just dumb troll
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Cory Trevor
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:25:00 -
[742]
Originally by: S*****
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
So basically, as usual, someone decided to have a forum rep post about an insanely inflammatory negative change right before you try to soften the blow with some mediocre conciliatory feature?
Gosh, where have I seen this before.
NEW ANNOUNCEMENT: Ambulation will have a custom hat feature! For just $20, you can have a custom hat with a logo of your choosing!
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Iridius Fervus
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:25:00 -
[743]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Thats it!?!?
REPORTED!
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Krycka
Minmatar Nightmare Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:25:00 -
[744]
For a moment I thougt it was a bad april fool¦s joke, then I watched the calendar and saw it was october. Of all nerfs you have done this is the worst ever. Med ett shysst jSrnr÷r kan man sls hela vSrlden med hSpnad!
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:25:00 -
[745]
Guys, this is a mistake! The beauty of EVE is the "offline" real-time Skill Training, and the added bonus has always been that when life throws you a curve ball and you can not play, you could always set a long skill, and come back to that new shiny toy.
Fact is, you guys at CCP tried to pull this stunt during Dragon, anyone remembers? And EVE Community was re-soundly against it, by the looks of this thread, we are still against it. This will only alienate all the players who stuck with CCP through thick and thin, bad mistake.
This is a BIG MISTAKE, and you should reconsider it.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:26:00 -
[746]
Originally by: Piper Halliwell Piper Halliwell fetches a pail of water for all you that have sand in your "sensitive" area's that needs flushing.
While I don't know why the change all the sudden, but I do understand why CCP is doing it M-O-N-E-Y! There is a reason that they are making shit loads of it and you are still living in your mothers basement.
You, also, are as intelligent as a sack of hammers.
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clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:28:00 -
[747]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
While I am happy that this change will cut down the number of accounts I have, it is however, the first time I find that smiley insulting.
-------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Lucia Warbler
Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:28:00 -
[748]
Originally by: Cory Trevor NEW ANNOUNCEMENT: Ambulation will have a custom hat feature! For just $20, you can have a custom hat with a logo of your choosing!
Oh snap! I forgot that was coming in near future. Obviously I can't quit yet? I hope Hats rank 8 lvl 5 doesn't take too long to train...
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Mika Katon
Gallente The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:28:00 -
[749]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
If it involves cutting Level 5 skill training times to 1/3 or 1/2 what they are now and implementing a skill queue, I'll be at least somewhat satisfied.
Otherwise you're down 4 paying accounts. I've never even done ghost training before, but the fact it existed gave me hope that I'd eventually have some decent characters. Without it, and with 8+ 30d skills I need to complete across my accounts, I'm not willing to continue.
I was building one of these accounts for a friend so he could play with me, and that was only viable when I knew I could ghost train some of the tedious level 5 skills his build needed. Not anymore.
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Reich Panzer
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:28:00 -
[750]
We might as well all face the fact that CCP is a company. IT's shocking I know. Even more shocking is that as a company they want to make a profit so that they can continue to supply their services. Take a second if you need to absorb that fact. . . .Ok next fact is that the local economy in which CCP is based, and several other economies globally, are rapidly spiralling into the black abyss of failure. Now I'm sure you think you are doing CCP a solid favor by randomly activating and deactivating accounts but you really aren't. What you're really doing is screwing with their ability to project potential gain and losses and messing with their ability to decide on how to allocate their funds. Everyone answers to someone else when money is involved. . noone sits at the very top of the moolah pyramid. Bill Gates had people he had to answer to and he's got more scratch than most nations. So when the people at the top are getting nervous and want to know why they should continue to support a luxury item such as an mmo like Eve who doesn't hold a large market share of the industry they need some good information to present. Showing how the average account activation time is only one or two months followed by down times of indeterminable lengths doesn't instill a sense of security in your investors or people you owe money to. However, showing that people will consistently run two accounts continously (which seems to be what will happen with this shift as opposed to bunches of accounts popping on and off) shows stability and fiscal reliability. . EVEN if it is preceeded with a sharp decline in subscriptions. What this means in corporate lingo is that CCP doesn't care if they lose that floating x variable of potential income. They wanna know what base they are working with when the economy dies. Savvy? Seems they want to know what a potential worst case scenario would be long before they HAVE a worst case scenario so they can plan around it accordingly. In essence this is about money. It's about having enough money to continue supplying us with Eve. . atleast I hope that is what it's about. If it is really just about trying to milk the players for more dinero then I can go get financially taken advantage of elsewhere true. . but I like playing Eve. It offers a depth of gameplay I can't find anywhere else. In a world where most games involve going somewhere to kill random things so you can get items to go somewhere else and kill random things there; I like being able to have a character that never has to ever enter combat to be a productive and entertaining option. I try to remember that when CCP does stuff I disagree with.
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Takarina
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:28:00 -
[751]
I never ghost train because I like playing the game all the time, but you know what? IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME SO STOP SAYIN ITS "NOT FAIR" TO US BECAUSE IT DOESN'T AFFECT US -- AT ALL.
Just be honest admit you want the activation money, we understand. BUT DONT FKKN LIE TO US CCP.
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Jesters Knight
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:28:00 -
[752]
Ok, I am willing to give them the benefet of the doubt.
maybe they do have good features planned to offset it and there PR guy needs to be shot in the face for posting wrong.
If (and only if) the following two things are implemented I will reactivate my account. 1. Skill Que 2. Training multiple characters on the same account.
Highsec POS's Skip the wait and research in the fast lane |
Lumpensammler
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:29:00 -
[753]
I think the Wednesday, 15 October 2008, is a day to finish playing eve-online! Ghost Training is one of the reason I play this game, cause I haven't the time for permanent playing.
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Lost Hamster
Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:29:00 -
[754]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
I know why they doing it! As they couldn't reduce the lag with technical solution, so they solve it from the financial side. The best lag reduction ever. With losing 10-35% of the account, I'm sure the lag will be reduced.
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Aeronith
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:29:00 -
[755]
So...about that speed nerf...
Seriously, what's up with that?
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Kif
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:29:00 -
[756]
losing 1-2 accounts because of this. nothing else to say
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:29:00 -
[757]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
You gave us two day's notice, how close to the change taking effect are you planning on waiting until you tell us all why this is such a great move? ---
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squiddie
Sleeper Technology Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:29:00 -
[758]
Originally by: clone 1
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
While I am happy that this change will cut down the number of accounts I have, it is however, the first time I find that smiley insulting.
true
Vote against the nano nerf! Don't forget to check the 'support' checkbox when replying. |
deadEd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:29:00 -
[759]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist JAlso, regardless of CCP's stance, the two day warning is just ridiculous. It probably takes more than a week for most of the playerbase to read a new dev blog. Now GTC demand has been artificially boosted because all these people have to sub sooner than expected. People who don't find out are going to lose skillpoints. Talk about pulling a fast one. And 20 minutes after the news was posted, another news article followed.
And to add onto the stupidity, it's only a short while after Power of Two ended too.
Seriously, it's so screwed up the date might as well be April 1st.
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Nina Korgan
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:30:00 -
[760]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Does the dev blog also explain what incentive players will have to return once they take a break from the game?
I sure hope so, for CCP's sake.
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Fulber
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:30:00 -
[761]
Originally by: Reich Panzer words, words, mother****ing words, and some more bloody words
Yes, reducing your income by reducing the amount of account subscriptions you're taking in is sound business sense based around making more money. |
Jayne Cobbe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:30:00 -
[762]
Originally by: Jesters Knight Ok, I am willing to give them the benefet of the doubt.
maybe they do have good features planned to offset it and there PR guy needs to be shot in the face for posting wrong.
If (and only if) the following two things are implemented I will reactivate my account. 1. Skill Que 2. Training multiple characters on the same account.
Screw #1 if #2 goes live :p
unfortunately i don't think either of those is gonna make it.
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Alleneara
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:30:00 -
[763]
Edited by: Alleneara on 13/10/2008 20:33:01
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
It is not something you can explain away. Seriously.
I've already been shafted by lag swallowing hours upon hours of hard work with nothing I can do about. How is THAT fair to people who play the game actively, I ask you?
I've also already been shafted with GTC prices going where I can't afford to pay for them. Especially now that character selling is no longer really feasible after this.
There's also one other other major think I've been shafted on by CCP, sadly I'm not at liberty to discuss it. In the meanwhile I've never been shafted by someone being able to ghost train.
But this latest thing really is too much. The more I think about it, the more ****ed I am. And won't be continuing my two subscriptions when they end, not that you'd care.
There's oh so many other things to do than keep on grinding a game you insist on turning into a steaming pile of rubbish. Other games, and other hobbies.
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Mr Kronos
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:30:00 -
[764]
Originally by: CowsCANBark
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
hahahahahha, backpedaling itt
I dont think that will change people minds though, just admit your defeat and cancel it.
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:30:00 -
[765]
Originally by: Darkireland Might be that they are doing this to roll out skill queing and dont want people abuseing the system to que up 2 30 day skills while inactive i suppose.
That is my hope. That this is a sign we'll get the queue. A bit too late for me, since I'll have polished off most of the short skillz already (at least like 2/3 of them I imagine) by the time the queue arrives. But improving the game greatly.
The main problem is the hypocrisy, when CCP claims that removing dark training improves the game in itself. It does not.
I fully sympathize with those who feel targeted by this change, and I'm concerned about a couple of real life friends that I've mostly talked into trying EVE out early next year. What will they think about this change?
-- Salpad |
Masked Shopper
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:31:00 -
[766]
Edited by: Masked Shopper on 13/10/2008 20:30:58 Oh by the way this puts CCP up there with the likes of EA for shitty games developers / publishers.
Congratulations, your medal is in the post (don't worry I paid for that too)
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Konrad Wachsmann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:31:00 -
[767]
Originally by: Aeronith So...about that speed nerf...
Seriously, what's up with that?
Sorry, CCP didn't want any more opposition to that so they posted this, really it's all just a joke so everyone stops talking about the speed nerf, come next week they just say they were pulling our leg
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:31:00 -
[768]
I'm curious as to what this 'dev blog' will say pertaining to CCP's desire for someone's in game time and actions to actually 'fairly affect' their achievements in EVE. GTCs anyone? Can we have the devs back who actually understand EVE and what is fun about it? Please!?
Seriously, EVE's current goals are entirely decided by either moronic or inept developers who are either pushing an entirely different game on us or are actually too stupid to do things that will positively affect EVE. -----
|
Norjia Blacksteel
Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:31:00 -
[769]
I doubt anyone will hear this.
But I think it's a reasonable change. Advancing in skill while not paying makes no sense at all to me. I've always thought it was odd they allowed it, and now that they're not, it just seems natural to me.
They haven't instituted earning SP for killing NPCs. That would probably make me quit the game. The basic skill system is still the best in the industry. ---- Norjia Blacksteel CEO Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing |
CowsCANBark
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:31:00 -
[770]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
You gave us two day's notice, how close to the change taking effect are you planning on waiting until you tell us all why this is such a great move?
you see, if they give advance notice they'll get a threadnaught like: compression nerf, carrier nerf, speed nerf, gtc nerf.
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:31:00 -
[771]
Kill yourselves
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Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:32:00 -
[772]
Whohohoho. I see, what is wrong. The lag too hard, dear CCP cut again playerbase.
1. The 90days GTC gone = 10000 player left the game, but the lag increased more, because they started the FW. 2. Ghost training end = min ~10000 player will left the game, but the lag will not decreasing because the CCP not upgrading the servers. Jita nod got + 12GB RAM, nothing else systems, and what happend ? Jita not lagging anymore with over 600+ peoples. 12GB RAM = 140$ (nice upgrade = 10 member x 1 month) Maybe the full LS20 server 1 blade x 2Nod RAM upgrade = 64x140$=8960$ The eve producing ~450,000$/month with 30k subscriber (35k online now), but CCP made a choice the 8960$ too expensive price for upgrade. LOL
3. What will bring for us the future ? I say it. The GTC comes to an end then.
Brilliant idea CCP, oh my....
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:32:00 -
[773]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
ROFL. I would like to see the BS you can come up with. At least say what it is. Grab for short term money before you sink with the rest of the iceland (or UK confiscates your servers). This is going to be same dev blog like the ******ed explanation for the GTC price hike. Industry standard where eve is alone at that price point. Some standards. I'm sure you learned that one from microsoft that you seem to like a lot.
****ing off your customers when economy is going down the drain is a bad thing. Even you guys should be able to understand that.
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Nanetha
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:32:00 -
[774]
Trolling at goodspeed o7
thread moving faster than the nanonerf one did. Keep going.
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CliveMerric
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:32:00 -
[775]
Originally by: Lumpensammler I think the Wednesday, 15 October 2008, is a day to finish playing eve-online! Ghost Training is one of the reason I play this game, cause I haven't the time for permanent playing.
would it be possible to make the 15th a no login day?
and ccp will see what they have done
i for one am not logging back in till they give us more info Clives BPC shop, Great deals!! |
Brutor Tutor
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:33:00 -
[776]
Hope you guys have something EXTREMELY good up your sleeves for Fanfest/Christmas.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:33:00 -
[777]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Riiiight... get a think tank together and try to come up with a different excuse I don't think I ever used the "Ghosting", even when I didn't play for almost a year I paid by sub just fine... I don't feel "cheated" if anyone is using the "feature". So, why didn't you introduce this neat idea before the latest power of two campaing?
You guys are slowly but steadily making us lose faith tbh Boink! |
Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:33:00 -
[778]
Seeing as you're such a fair and balanced company CCP, please ban GTC sales for isk - it's UNFAIR that people are buying SUPER CAPITALS with them while I can't afford to use toilet paper.
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:33:00 -
[779]
Edited by: Dianeces on 13/10/2008 20:34:49
Originally by: Kery Syander. I'm curious as to what this 'dev blog' will say pertaining to CCP's desire for someone's in game time and actions to actually 'fairly affect' their achievements in EVE. GTCs anyone? Can we have the devs back who actually understand EVE and what is fun about it? Please!?
Seriously, EVE's current goals are entirely decided by either moronic or inept developers who are either pushing an entirely different game on us or are actually too stupid to do things that will positively affect EVE.
Kery poast sighted.
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:34:00 -
[780]
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda Kill yourselves
Yes, yes, true, how dare we have a say in the game we pay to play. CCP knows far better than us what we want and what's best for us. Like the government. ---
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Wynteryth Fett
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:34:00 -
[781]
Originally by: Konrad Wachsmann
Originally by: Ron Bacardi
Originally by: jitasucks
Originally by: Ron Bacardi About time! Why should people get continued benefit from something they aren't paying for? Good move imho.
I can't think of any other examples where people continue to benefit from something they've stopped paying for
Think...speak.
You're paying for a service. If you stop paying for said service, you stop receiving said service.
One day, when you pay an electricity bill, you'll realize that when you stop paying, you stop getting electricity. The electricity companies dont let you write whine threads either, sorry.
While true, what else are main selling points for EvE other than the ghost training, what seperates it from other MMOs?
Gee, I don't know. The Vast Universe it covers. The Time based skill training. The lack of quest campers. The fact that its changing alot. The Player owned structures..
Are you really that obtuse to think that most people joined EVE because they could just sit back and not play their character for months on end and their characters would all of a sudden be these UBER Pilots, then you are the one with the issue.
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Furnak Tye
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:34:00 -
[782]
Come on Jumpgate go Gold already ffs ------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE |
Thomas Jay
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:34:00 -
[783]
I will be losing 2 accounts to this also good job ccp! At least you will save me some money :)
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Skraut
ElitistOps GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:34:00 -
[784]
Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Riiiight... get a think tank together and try to come up with a different excuse I don't think I ever used the "Ghosting", even when I didn't play for almost a year I paid by sub just fine... I don't feel "cheated" if anyone is using the "feature". So, why didn't you introduce this neat idea before the latest power of two campaing?
You guys are slowly but steadily making us lose faith tbh
slowly but steadily? haha, you must be a pretty patient dude
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Jesters Knight
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:34:00 -
[785]
Originally by: CliveMerric
Originally by: Lumpensammler I think the Wednesday, 15 October 2008, is a day to finish playing eve-online! Ghost Training is one of the reason I play this game, cause I haven't the time for permanent playing.
would it be possible to make the 15th a no login day?
and ccp will see what they have done
i for one am not logging back in till they give us more info
Agree, I support a blackout day on the 15th
Highsec POS's Skip the wait and research in the fast lane |
Sophronia Abiodun
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:34:00 -
[786]
Edited by: Sophronia Abiodun on 13/10/2008 20:35:00 Oh and...
http://koti.mbnet.fi/jakkara/wowiakai.jpg
Picture related.
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Lhyda Souljacker
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:35:00 -
[787]
I recently decided to cancel my accounts because CCP has been focusing far too much on not broken things and ignoring other more pressing issues (lag, 0.0 dying a horrible death, the imbalance of empire and 0.0, etc). This just ensures I will never return to this game. If CCP wants to continue through with this, I'll give my money to Blizzard instead.
It's fairly obvious this is about money especially with the time card changes that were ridiculous. CCP, I hope your relentless drive for profit at the expense of happy paying customers serves you well in the future.
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onoma
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:35:00 -
[788]
Their just trying to rake in more dough, there would be no other reason. Force players to stay subscribed lol. If anything it hurts CCP'S good reputation.
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Odette Lucrece
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:35:00 -
[789]
I don't understand how this could be considered anything but a play to get more money. Pure and simple CCP, pure and simple. At least admit what you're doing.
I think this is an awful business idea, and I rarely ever actually do it. If anything, I think you will drive people away who want to take a break because there will be no "hey, I should (start giving CCP money) and resubscribe because foo skill lvl 5 is done now!".
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Seeker Ash
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:35:00 -
[790]
Let's examine the supposed reason to remove ghost training: The unfair advantage it gives over players who play all the time.
On one hand we have player Cheapass, who goes on a 3 month break while training skill X. On the other hand is player Hardcore, who grinds let's say 100 million stardollars a day, along with unspecified amounts of faction standings, corp credibility and maybe even learns a thing or two about the game through hard-earned experience, while keeping up with in-game events on both galactic and personal scale. Is Hardcore really at a disadvantage here? Maybe using up real world money gives you a disadvantage of some sort. _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues." |
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Nobilia
Behemoth Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:35:00 -
[791]
First cancel 30/90 gtc to make price vor isk secure only buyer higher to 100%
Step Two make big joke with "Power of Two" Next step stop Ghost Training Price go moor to the sky Alot of Guys not reaktivate accs
This is the right way to: loos numbers loos money
Good Morning CCP
Frauen sind wie Lootcans : anziehend und unwiederstehlich aus der Ferne. NSher betrachtet dann doch nur ein Miner I oder dein Verderben. |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:36:00 -
[792]
Originally by: S*****
Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Riiiight... get a think tank together and try to come up with a different excuse I don't think I ever used the "Ghosting", even when I didn't play for almost a year I paid by sub just fine... I don't feel "cheated" if anyone is using the "feature". So, why didn't you introduce this neat idea before the latest power of two campaing?
You guys are slowly but steadily making us lose faith tbh
slowly but steadily? haha, you must be a pretty patient dude
Yes indeed I am... most ppl want to punch me sometimes for being so calm and patient Boink! |
PROTOCOL
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:36:00 -
[793]
Good job CCP!
BY doing this change and the subsequent 27 pages of "I am quitting" you will greatly reduce your petition load. The same jagoffs who want something for free are also the same dip$hits who file a petition over anything and even if their stupidity caused the loss.
I fail to see how anyone can justify wanting something for nothing, want to train, pay the monthly fee. It's pretty simple if you ask me.
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Ronwe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:36:00 -
[794]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you""""""""""""" discuss """"""""""""this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
Talk to the hand method?
So lets discuss what balance Issue you are talking about ? The balance issue in your own pockets? Or is it really this MISTIRIOUS balance problem that somehow came up hmm.....lets say 8 years too late?
I dont think this can be changed that easily. This "Ghosttraining" thingy (why didnt you call it Pirate training would sound more EBIL 'boohhooo'), you call it now was part of eve since BETA! Would be same telling all gamers in 2 days your ships will be replaced with bananas...
I fear you dont get what you deserve for it... and the worst thing is that in 3 weeks nobody talks about it anymore ... So congratz EVE(il) Team
- never thought my Sig would fit to a Forum post that much
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Jayne Cobbe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:36:00 -
[795]
http://ccp.is/bitmaps/splash/splash.jpg
CARE MORE!
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:36:00 -
[796]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
If you're going to do a money grab, then do it and be honest about it. Your rationale is just plain wrong.
Yes. CCP are entitled to do whatever they want with EVE.
The only wrongness is when they lie about their intent behind that which they do.
-- Salpad |
Cory Trevor
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:37:00 -
[797]
Originally by: Admiral Frools Seeing as you're such a fair and balanced company CCP, please ban GTC sales for isk - it's UNFAIR that people are buying SUPER CAPITALS with them while I can't afford to use toilet paper.
Agreed, it's very unfair that capsuleers that put time and effort into their moneymaking can be bested by someone with a Paypal account. Please fix this, thanks.
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GoTspeed
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:37:00 -
[798]
I dont approve this change. Ill light a candle for my 2nd char who will go in hibernation because of this
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:37:00 -
[799]
Strikes me this move is much more likely to be aimed at ensuring a predicatable and steady revenue flow, rather than a 'spikey' profile thats likely to occur with ghost accounts.
It also might have something to do with combating character sales and the general macro market aswell.
Sadly the comment doesnt say that..
C.
Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:37:00 -
[800]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
I expect it to be as credible as the one about ISK trading in the light of GTC=>ISK conversion ... Sorry.
I love it in rookie help when some ISD guy say to the noobs "keep the game fair, don't buy ISKs".
Out of my head I don't know of a more two faced entity than CCP on that subject... -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
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chiisai sakana
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:37:00 -
[801]
Originally by: onoma Their just trying to rake in more dough, there would be no other reason. Force players to stay subscribed lol. If anything it hurts CCP'S good reputation.
they have a reputation?
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Katja Shade
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:38:00 -
[802]
Originally by: Poreuomai I wonder if CCP investigated and found most people training capital pilots only pay for a fraction of the training time.
Well the solution to that is to cut training times and add more skills and ships and stuff. More incentive, less timesink.
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SiIIypants Jackson
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:38:00 -
[803]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
i look forward to seeing what twisted mental gymnastics you come up with to justify this as a "balance" issue
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:38:00 -
[804]
Originally by: PROTOCOL Edited by: PROTOCOL on 13/10/2008 20:36:30 Good job CCP!
BY doing this change and the subsequent 27 pages of "I am quitting" you will greatly reduce your petition load. The same jagoffs who want something for free are also the same dip$hits who file a petition over anything, even if their stupidity caused the loss.
I fail to see how anyone can justify wanting something for nothing, want to train, pay the monthly fee. It's pretty simple if you ask me.
They are also the ones who pay the bills. Just sayin'.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:38:00 -
[805]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 13/10/2008 20:38:42
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: fiber0pti CCP = GREED
No: FAIR!
Honestly, if you want to train, then you pay subscription!
If you have to leave, you stop training, when you wants to return, you return, and starts from where you ended! THAT is fair to those of us who do PAY and PLAY!
Then let us stop invention/production and stuff too and see how fair works out in the long term.
<--------gamplay | RL --------------->
What you are speaking about is GAME RELATED ACTIVITY which is GAME PLAY! What I am speaking about - and CCP i guess - is who is going to earn on NOT PAYING SUBSCRIPTION to allow gameplay!
It is fundamentaly unfair to those who do PAY that those who quit can earn something which is for paying customers only! So in a aspect, they get an unfair advantage! Saving real life money, while still earning something others have to PAY for!
So yes, its a good move by CCP!!!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:38:00 -
[806]
Originally by: Brinstead
Word of advice from someone who has been there and done that - these types of MBA's / Consultants never factor in customer satisfaction in their calculations, and while they work well for an essential utility (electric, phone (to some extent), etc) they don't work well at all for an economic luxury like what CCP provides, especially not in an economic climate like the one we have today.
Good point.
People pay to play EVE because it is fun.
Any change that reduces fun-of-play is extremely dangerous for CCP.
-- Salpad |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:38:00 -
[807]
Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: S*****
Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Riiiight... get a think tank together and try to come up with a different excuse I don't think I ever used the "Ghosting", even when I didn't play for almost a year I paid by sub just fine... I don't feel "cheated" if anyone is using the "feature". So, why didn't you introduce this neat idea before the latest power of two campaing?
You guys are slowly but steadily making us lose faith tbh
slowly but steadily? haha, you must be a pretty patient dude
Yes indeed I am... most ppl want to punch me sometimes for being so calm and patient
I can testify that Coco is patient. Anyone that can mine as long and with as many hulks as him has to be patient! ---
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Mrs Fastener
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:38:00 -
[808]
Amazing... so the fact that the customers (you, me, everyone who plays Eve) have been getting SOMETHING for NOTHING for OVER FIVE YEARS and now will be correctly charged for their gaming activity, is grounds for all this whining???
Here's a tip: Go play Star Wars Galaxies. At SOE, the devs cave in regularly to crybaby carebears.
At least here, we get what we pay for, and agreed to. Over there, you get what some 12 year old kid cries for. |
Quatermas
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:39:00 -
[809]
Run, Run - the sky's falling.
Hurry up and cancel your acounts, I want to get into to Jita and make some dosh!
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Provactor Znell
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:39:00 -
[810]
with all due respect i think you know where you can stick that ****in dev blog.
btw adding a smiley to the end of the post does not somhow reduce the fact that the entire dev team just ****ed the player base massively, all it does is make it appear that you couldn't give a rats ass about how most of us are feeling.
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Lily Savage
CryoTech
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:39:00 -
[811]
If you want to train, you should pay to do so. What a bunch of whining freeloaders.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:39:00 -
[812]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
I hope the dev blog answers these questions:
1) Will Research Points stop accumulating when an account goes inactive? 2) Will market orders from any characters on an inactive account be removed from the market? 3) Will corporation/alliance member counts go up and down based on inactive accounts? This impacts certain CEO skills. 4) Will dividends not go to shareholders who are inactive? 5) What will happen to corporations/alliances whose CEOs go inactive? |
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:40:00 -
[813]
Originally by: Ted Raald Finally, CCP have found a way to beat LAG! get rid of 75% of its subscriber base......
Have you ever thought about opening a bank?
To run a succesful bank, you need basic honesty.
(And yes, I'm PR Manager at Dynasty Bank. If the DB Directors tried to pull a stunt like that, I'd quit. Loudly and in public. But I'm fairly sure they won't.)
-- Salpad |
Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:40:00 -
[814]
Edited by: Dianeces on 13/10/2008 20:42:47
Originally by: Lily Savage :hurfblurf: I have no idea what I'm talking about. :hurfblurf:
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Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:40:00 -
[815]
Originally by: Lily Savage If you want to train, you should pay to do so. What a bunch of whining freeloaders.
Dumb**** spotted
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Fred Ayurveda
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:40:00 -
[816]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 13/10/2008 20:38:42
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: fiber0pti CCP = GREED
No: FAIR!
Honestly, if you want to train, then you pay subscription!
If you have to leave, you stop training, when you wants to return, you return, and starts from where you ended! THAT is fair to those of us who do PAY and PLAY!
Then let us stop invention/production and stuff too and see how fair works out in the long term.
<--------gamplay | RL --------------->
What you are speaking about is GAME RELATED ACTIVITY which is GAME PLAY! What I am speaking about - and CCP i guess - is who is going to earn on NOT PAYING SUBSCRIPTION to allow gameplay!
It is fundamentaly unfair to those who do PAY that those who quit can earn something which is for paying customers only! So in a aspect, they get an unfair advantage! Saving real life money, while still earning something others have to PAY for!
So yes, its a good move by CCP!!!
**** you for siding with the duplicitous corporation over your fellow players.
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:40:00 -
[817]
Epic Fail.
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:40:00 -
[818]
Originally by: Lily Savage If you want to train, you should pay to do so. What a bunch of whining freeloaders.
translation: i never thought to take advantage of this, so no one else should be allowed to either ---
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Wynteryth Fett
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:40:00 -
[819]
Originally by: Aganola I'm SIGNING here with THREE ACCOUNTS...
DON'T FRIGGIN TELL ME THAT BECAUSE I TRIED TO BYPASS THE STUPID TIMESINK CALLED SKILL TRAINING BY PAYING FOR 3 ACCOUNTS THAT I SHOULD AT LEAST NOT GET ANY BENEFIT FROM IT!
I'm paying 300% over and get screwed hard after okt. 15th? Count me out!
Congratulations... I was paying for three accounts... when my sub ends in november I may not renew it at all... not even one of them!
You aren't paying 300% over. You aren't paying 100% over. You are paying for your subscriptions. This does not affect you.
This affects accounts that are inactive/expired. And, From what I have seen, inactive/expired means that they aren't paid up.
Now, if they were to change what INACTIVE means, then you might have a gripe. Otherwise, you are over-reacting because you don't understand what is being said.
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Rebos Rothnal
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:41:00 -
[820]
My plan was to put BS V up to train once my gtc runs out and come back around xmas holiday to play more.
I doubt this will happen now.
EVE has been the ONLY mmorpg I've ever chosen to pay for, the main reason for that was that it isn't all about grinding levels and playing 24/7 to be good - the possibility to train your character while letting account lapse has been very important part in my book, even though I've only used that possibility once so far.
Bad call ccp, really bad call. Seems like a lot of the people agree, btw, the people who are telling you this is a mistake are the people who put food on your table.
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Talidorn
Pandoras Military And Civilian Operations Group Raging Phoenix Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:41:00 -
[821]
Welp
Fallout post and nearly 30 pages later a dev response (about a _future_ devblog).
My only post will be that I disagree with this move.
Talidorn |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:41:00 -
[822]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth I can testify that Coco is patient. Anyone that can mine as long and with as many hulks as him has to be patient!
Now now, don't lie about me. I only have 2 accts and the one that can actualy fly a hulk hasn't mined for.... more than 10hrs total?
So who else is feeling "cheated" around here! Tell us how you reeeealy feel! Boink! |
Wynteryth Fett
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:42:00 -
[823]
Originally by: WrathofAchilles I'm quitting if you implement this. Shiesty. Deceitful. Plenty of honest games out there with good customer service. You know... the ones that actually give a damn if a customer leaves.
How are they being deceitful?
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Jac Straw
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:42:00 -
[824]
I lol'd at the OP
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Aeronith
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:42:00 -
[825]
Edited by: Aeronith on 13/10/2008 20:43:18
Originally by: Mrs Fastener
Here's a tip: Go play Star Wars Galaxies. At SOE, the devs cave in regularly to crybaby carebears.
At least here, we get what we pay for, and agreed to. Over there, you get what some 12 year old kid cries for.
So...about that speed nerf...
Really, what's the deal with that?
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Brigitte Kuragin
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:42:00 -
[826]
wow, this is pretty stupid, but no less than i expected.
You have all these cool dev blogs put out on hardware and they're so awesome, but whenever you actually try to do anything about the balance of the game you fail, and then try to relate balance to your insatiable desire for jewgold. Not that i blame you for wanting jewgold, just admit that it's the reason not some tomfoolery with balance.
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Killer Rasta
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:43:00 -
[827]
crapy move,CCP. Money,money,money. Crapy exusis. Shame on you,shame shame shame. I did allready take out my main acount,and stupid me did start power of 2,on this acount having in mind that i can ghost train my main. Well u change up this feature,and i will ashure u that all my acounts r going out of this game.And not only this..... U have beeen advertasing that this is only game that actualy u dont nead to mine asteriod belt for 7 hours to improve your mining skill,uwe actuali did not have to be on line to improv our chars,and now u came up whith this briliant idea.It is not inuff that u did make eve time consuming to the point of bordom,now u nead to make it even more boring and sensles.What will be next?i will have to read 100 signautures to get my signature analize skill to lvl3 or will i have to fire 6 billons rounds from railgun to have my gunery skill go up. I mean it is not fair that a player that do play 1 hour a day advance in his gunery skill same way i do playing 12 hour a day.it is just not fair.So Inteligent guy that came out whith this briliant idea please make all skill progresing relatid to play time,more u play more sp u get,or wait ther are more game that works this way+???????? Now i was thinking everybody coud think some good idea to help ccp nerf the game even more,make it unplayebel and make even more money that thay allready do. Proposal n1: make everybody who wants to read the forums have to pay a moont suscription of 14,99 euros Proposal n2: if person do take a break from game make(lets say 1 moonth) make tham pay two subscriptions too come back to game,cose u did have to maintain acount for free period of time that person was having a break. Proposal n3: make all games featurs even slower so we nead to train at least 6 moonths to even fly a cruiser size ship,and make a premium subscription worth 14,99 euros that will acelerate all training skilll. Proposal n4: Make a rule that will obligate each player to wear a CCP mark t-shirt while he is playing eve(whithout CCP t-shirt u canot play) and than make it have a CCP mark web cam conectid so u can chech are the players actualy wearing t-shirt and make CCP t-shirt and CCP camera cost 14,99 euros.
If that did not make inuf money than just close the store cose u r probably right now in so bad economical situacion that u nead to actuali ask money on streat to actualy bring some food to your familis..... Com on.... Get serios and work in intres of your clients and stop doing this social experiments that noobody did ask u to do..........
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Xavier Holtzman
Dark Star Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:43:00 -
[828]
Originally by: Todoshi Epic Fail.
QFT
This seriously makes me consider not coming back after my next account deactivation. -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Mag's
MASS
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:43:00 -
[829]
Two words spring to mind.....
Public relations.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
VLAD DRACU
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:43:00 -
[830]
Originally by: SiIIypants Jackson
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
i look forward to seeing what twisted mental gymnastics you come up with to justify this as a "balance" issue
and oh, YES, let's make 15th non logging day
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Supay
Caldari The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:43:00 -
[831]
Who the hell cares if people ghost train? When I was a student I sometimes had important things to do that didn't involve EVE and it was nice to set a longer skill training and cancel the account for a bit to make sure I didn't login. When I could come back I had something new to enjoy and dived back in to playing for a long period again. I have younger friends who are students who still do this and I have still sometimes done it when work is heavy.
EVE is a great game but it can cause intense burnout over time and ghost training while you took a break is one of the best things about it. Now you're just going to make people realise they have to either pay for a game they're not playing for a month or two or they come back to exactly the same character they left, with no additional fun things to look forward to. They'll just say "meh, same old stuff" and quit for good rather than going "cool, I can now fly xxxx" or "wow, look at the stats on this xxxx T2 i can use now" and paying to then enjoy it for a longer period than you would get from the ghost training time.
The only person benefitting from this change is CCP's wallet, so the person responsible for this cashcow change should at least have the balls to come on here and say it rather than have some poor Devs have to make up a load of rubbish and take the flak for it. .
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Fred Ayurveda
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:43:00 -
[832]
Just want to note that all of the players who are siding with CCP on this really don't have a leg to stand on- they are straight up bad people. Ghost Training doesn't hurt them, and helps other players. Now these disgusting specimens are SUPPORTING THE evil, cheating corporation just because they never took advantage of that specific feature.
*******s.
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:43:00 -
[833]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: WrathofAchilles I'm quitting if you implement this. Shiesty. Deceitful. Plenty of honest games out there with good customer service. You know... the ones that actually give a damn if a customer leaves.
How are they being deceitful?
I think promoting this as something that is about "fairness" when it obviously has nothing to do with fairness is pretty deceitful. ---
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Heraku
Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:43:00 -
[834]
Edited by: Heraku on 13/10/2008 20:49:02 Ok CCP but not unless you cut down your stupid skill times for skills over rank 6 ? Who right in mind wants to wait 26 days+ for a minor improvement on his char ?
This has nothing to do with balance but more with greed on your part. At least be honest with your customer base, were not dumb.
***got bunch of cashgreedy liars...
PS : Did Fish innards get that expensive on your island ?
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Acqua Digit
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:44:00 -
[835]
Did some nodes already crashed by assembled roiters? |
Kif
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:44:00 -
[836]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Gee, I don't know. The Vast Universe it covers.
Which you need more than one account to even do half of the interesting things in eve.
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
The Time based skill training.
Which you need more than one account to progress in the game faster
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
The lack of quest campers. The fact that its changing alot.
Which will stop changing now that half the playerbases accounts aren't going to be active at all.
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
The Player owned structures..
Which are fueled, managed, moved and built by alternate accounts
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Are you really that obtuse to think that most people joined EVE because they could just sit back and not play their character for months on end and their characters would all of a sudden be these UBER Pilots, then you are the one with the issue.
Most people play eve because they have fun on their main but in order to actually explore the content in the game faster than snails pace they have to get more than one account. CCP should be damn well happy that they get away with all but requiring you to have more than one account. People were ok with running more than one account since you could juggle it with timecards and clever skill training but this totally ****s over people, especially people who bought into power of two.
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:44:00 -
[837]
Originally by: Admiral Frools Seeing as you're such a fair and balanced company CCP, please ban GTC sales for isk - it's UNFAIR that people are buying SUPER CAPITALS with them while I can't afford to use toilet paper.
signed. I would love to see EVE be FAIR again... just like back in the old days where i could mission all day long in motsu with no lag! I pay for my 5 accounts with my hard earned cash so i can level up all my mission running characters at the same time. It's not fair that someone else can level up while not even grinding!!!! Wait... what game is this again?
It's also unfair that someone can kill me when I don't want them to. Please accompany this account buff with a warp core stabilizer buff! -----
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:44:00 -
[838]
Hey! Why even bother trying to listen to your player base?
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Jayne Cobbe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:44:00 -
[839]
I am Jayne Cobbe and i approve this message.
Originally by: Talidorn Welp
Fallout post and nearly 30 pages later a dev response (about a _future_ devblog).
My only post will be that I disagree with this move.
Talidorn
:p
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Lhyda Souljacker
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:44:00 -
[840]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: WrathofAchilles I'm quitting if you implement this. Shiesty. Deceitful. Plenty of honest games out there with good customer service. You know... the ones that actually give a damn if a customer leaves.
How are they being deceitful?
Ghost Training was a selling point for EVE. A big one at that.
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Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:44:00 -
[841]
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe http://ccp.is/bitmaps/splash/splash.jpg
CARE MORE!
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/skyl3lazer/whocares.png
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
JCache
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:45:00 -
[842]
I really can't decide if I give a shit. Since they raised the prices and wiped out the 30 and 90 day GTCs I wasn't using my second account anyway. It's not the question if I will reactivate that account again, but if quit EVE for good.
Well, we'll see what happens when they get greedy... Please refrain from moderating on the discussion forums. |
Miluuu
Imperium Galactica
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:45:00 -
[843]
I am happy with this change, but if the mechanish change then I really would ask for a skill queue. 1 Active skill in training and 1 more to be trained is more than enought for me.
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Little help
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:45:00 -
[844]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
FU I am currently writing a blog to explain the meaning and reasons behind this message :)
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Junkie Beverage
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:45:00 -
[845]
quit making changes very few people want you bunch of jerks
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:45:00 -
[846]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: Aganola I'm SIGNING here with THREE ACCOUNTS...
DON'T FRIGGIN TELL ME THAT BECAUSE I TRIED TO BYPASS THE STUPID TIMESINK CALLED SKILL TRAINING BY PAYING FOR 3 ACCOUNTS THAT I SHOULD AT LEAST NOT GET ANY BENEFIT FROM IT!
I'm paying 300% over and get screwed hard after okt. 15th? Count me out!
Congratulations... I was paying for three accounts... when my sub ends in november I may not renew it at all... not even one of them!
You aren't paying 300% over. You aren't paying 100% over. You are paying for your subscriptions. This does not affect you.
This affects accounts that are inactive/expired. And, From what I have seen, inactive/expired means that they aren't paid up.
Now, if they were to change what INACTIVE means, then you might have a gripe. Otherwise, you are over-reacting because you don't understand what is being said.
the hell it does not affect me? Do you think I could afford three accs without ghost training? I envy those guys who pay for 10+accs withouth a twitch while I gather together enough money to be happy with 3... ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Goklayeh
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:45:00 -
[847]
I like to play some time eve and than,take ab breake.Skilling in breakes make eve especialy for casual Player,interesting.
If ccp wants to make me a all time player,forget it.....
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Col Callahan
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:45:00 -
[848]
I do not support this in any way shape or forum. This is a feature so that when I don't feel like playing eve for a month I can put my eve life on hold but still come back to a long skill trained and ready to go. I remember back when I frist started this was sold and a feature and I can see no other reason other then greed as to why they would just out fo the blue take this feature out.
Although I have not used this feature in a very long time. I still know people who have lives and sometimes need to take a break. I also like knowing that I can do it at any time if I need a break form eve. I may have a life worth living some day
In short, this is a terrible idea but I suspect it has something to do with skill training ques. _
Clusters shut down, and then you stare at a black screen for 5 hours. |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:46:00 -
[849]
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 13/10/2008 20:38:42
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: fiber0pti CCP = GREED
No: FAIR!
Honestly, if you want to train, then you pay subscription!
If you have to leave, you stop training, when you wants to return, you return, and starts from where you ended! THAT is fair to those of us who do PAY and PLAY!
Then let us stop invention/production and stuff too and see how fair works out in the long term.
<--------gamplay | RL --------------->
What you are speaking about is GAME RELATED ACTIVITY which is GAME PLAY! What I am speaking about - and CCP i guess - is who is going to earn on NOT PAYING SUBSCRIPTION to allow gameplay!
It is fundamentaly unfair to those who do PAY that those who quit can earn something which is for paying customers only! So in a aspect, they get an unfair advantage! Saving real life money, while still earning something others have to PAY for!
So yes, its a good move by CCP!!!
**** you for siding with the duplicitous corporation over your fellow players.
Strictly speaking: those who are not paying subscriptions are NOT FELLOW PLAYERS!
I support the customers who PAY and PLAY! I dont support cheapskapes who wants everything free, and whine when they cant have it!
Besides, watch your manners! namecalling is for idiots only
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Proud American
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:46:00 -
[850]
It's a good thing CCP has several community managers whose job it is to talk to the community when issues such as these appear.
Where did the following people go?
CCP Applebabe Community Representative
CCP Fallout Associate Community Manager
CCP Mitnal Community Representative
CCP Navigator Senior Community Representative
CCP WeatherMan Community Representative
CCP Wrangler Community Manager
|
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Cueball Mcfuzz
Groon Research
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:46:00 -
[851]
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda Just want to note that all of the players who are siding with CCP on this really don't have a leg to stand on- they are straight up bad people. Ghost Training doesn't hurt them, and helps other players. Now these disgusting specimens are SUPPORTING THE evil, cheating corporation just because they never took advantage of that specific feature.
As sholes.
yup
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Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:46:00 -
[852]
Quote: I think the Wednesday, 15 October 2008, is a day to finish playing eve-online! Ghost Training is one of the reason I play this game, cause I haven't the time for permanent playing.
WTF? You do realise they are not talking about skills training while you aren't logged in, but skills training on accounts that are no longer being paid for?
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:46:00 -
[853]
Originally by: Aeronith Edited by: Aeronith on 13/10/2008 20:43:18
Originally by: Mrs Fastener
Here's a tip: Go play Star Wars Galaxies. At SOE, the devs cave in regularly to crybaby carebears.
At least here, we get what we pay for, and agreed to. Over there, you get what some 12 year old kid cries for.
So...about that speed nerf...
Really, what's the deal with that?
Heh.
Woah, they don't like that so much, uh...
Hey guys, look over here at this even bigger ****-you! Yeah, that's right, how do you like that? Forgot all about that other issue yet? I mean, what other issue?
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Konrad Wachsmann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:46:00 -
[854]
Originally by: Kif
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Gee, I don't know. The Vast Universe it covers.
Which you need more than one account to even do half of the interesting things in eve.
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
The Time based skill training.
Which you need more than one account to progress in the game faster
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
The lack of quest campers. The fact that its changing alot.
Which will stop changing now that half the playerbases accounts aren't going to be active at all.
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
The Player owned structures..
Which are fueled, managed, moved and built by alternate accounts
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Are you really that obtuse to think that most people joined EVE because they could just sit back and not play their character for months on end and their characters would all of a sudden be these UBER Pilots, then you are the one with the issue.
Most people play eve because they have fun on their main but in order to actually explore the content in the game faster than snails pace they have to get more than one account. CCP should be damn well happy that they get away with all but requiring you to have more than one account. People were ok with running more than one account since you could juggle it with timecards and clever skill training but this totally ****s over people, especially people who bought into power of two.
Ah got to it before I did, well said.
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Rongar Maximus
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:46:00 -
[855]
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
As soon as it's ready? So, Thursday then?
Friday, at the latest.
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:47:00 -
[856]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
Its kind of amazing that your only thoughts at making this game better only make it worse for the player.
ex. Speed ner People that spend billions on snake sets and speed mods are now useless
ex. Timecard issue people can no longer get 30 days with timecards only 60 and they are more expensive then the old 90 days
You should actaully try to maybe innovate an idea to get people to actually want to play your game for a change just as though tho.
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Nina Korgan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:47:00 -
[857]
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
Maybe it upsets the balance of the game when you are laboring under the assumption that all players started playing when the game came out.
As it stands, this is going to hurt new players, casual players, and players with multiple accounts all at once.
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Loki Faulk
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:47:00 -
[858]
Here is the summary of the argument:
Pro the change (kill ghost training): - very few people hold this position, many of them seem to not notice that those complaining have multiple accounts, and the main argument is "why get something for free"? Also, these people are obviously die-hards, and won't be quitting the game. They have been playing this game with ghost-training the whole time, and haven't quit yet.
Against the change (keep ghost training): - very many people are angry about this change. Many of these people have multiple accounts, and they don't keep all of them active all the time. These people represent a decent part of your revenue stream, running multiple accounts - a practice which you push with things such as your "power of two" promotions, among others. As has been mentioned, allowing a skill to train while unsubbed gives a lot of players a reason to come back to this game.
Ultimately, this will cause a lot of players to quit playing the game, or to dump a lot of their alt accounts. Where you had revenue before, you will have less or none. And you won't get people coming into the game because of "wow, what a great change" to make up for it.
When you have a stable dynamic such as ghost training, which is a "perk" of playing the game, and then you remove it, you will make some players angry enough that they will just quit playing outright. Lost revenue.
Also, as people can generally only manage a few accounts at once, but may be paying for a few more than that, you will see account consolidation or just accounts being dropped. You have built this game in such a way that it isn't easy to explore a lot of the high-end options: 1 pilot training per account and no skill queue. The fact that we could lapse an innactive account made sense for the way that you setup the training in the first place.
In summary, any perceived benefit you may be getting (making the "fair-play" crowd happy, getting players to pay more money) is going to be quite offset by the cost (losing alt accounts, losing players, not getting unsubbed players back).
Reconsider the change please.
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Vek NaVek
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:47:00 -
[859]
Originally by: Orion Moonstar
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe http://ccp.is/bitmaps/splash/splash.jpg
CARE MORE!
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m128/skyl3lazer/whocares.png
Lol a funny in a failthread
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Kery Syander
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:47:00 -
[860]
Originally by: Caiman Graystock
Quote: I think the Wednesday, 15 October 2008, is a day to finish playing eve-online! Ghost Training is one of the reason I play this game, cause I haven't the time for permanent playing.
WTF? You do realise they are not talking about skills training while you aren't logged in, but skills training on accounts that are no longer being paid for?
Oh... that's what they are talking about? Oh, i thought it was some game mechanic that had been in place for 5 years. If that's all then yeah, they should probably get rid of it for all teh extra jewgold. -----
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:48:00 -
[861]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 13/10/2008 20:38:42
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: fiber0pti CCP = GREED
No: FAIR!
Honestly, if you want to train, then you pay subscription!
If you have to leave, you stop training, when you wants to return, you return, and starts from where you ended! THAT is fair to those of us who do PAY and PLAY!
Then let us stop invention/production and stuff too and see how fair works out in the long term.
<--------gamplay | RL --------------->
What you are speaking about is GAME RELATED ACTIVITY which is GAME PLAY! What I am speaking about - and CCP i guess - is who is going to earn on NOT PAYING SUBSCRIPTION to allow gameplay!
It is fundamentaly unfair to those who do PAY that those who quit can earn something which is for paying customers only! So in a aspect, they get an unfair advantage! Saving real life money, while still earning something others have to PAY for!
So yes, its a good move by CCP!!!
**** you for siding with the duplicitous corporation over your fellow players.
Strictly speaking: those who are not paying subscriptions are NOT FELLOW PLAYERS!
I support the customers who PAY and PLAY! I dont support cheapskapes who wants everything free, and whine when they cant have it!
Besides, watch your manners! namecalling is for idiots only
Haha, I didn't namecall, then you call me an idiot?
I'll call you an idiot now, though- get out of your mother's basement and consider why you could possibly be against your fellow players and with the corporation on this.
You're either in CCP, want to fellate them, or...I don't even know.
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:49:00 -
[862]
CCP get rid of 30d GTC: people stop training alts CCP get rid of "ghost training": people stop using alts
CCP aims for 1 character -> 1 person... ________________________________________
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Ithnolin
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:49:00 -
[863]
Hey, all you whiny crybabies that are going to quit over this...I will buy your accounts for 1 isk each. You aren't going to use them any more, so why waste em? I will buy them.
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Sprobe
Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:49:00 -
[864]
go and do something good for the game, not **** off the community. never to old to play |
KhaniKirai
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:49:00 -
[865]
Originally by: Proud American It's a good thing CCP has several community managers whose job it is to talk to the community when issues such as these appear.
Where did the following people go?
CCP Applebabe Community Representative
CCP Fallout Associate Community Manager
CCP Mitnal Community Representative
CCP Navigator Senior Community Representative
CCP WeatherMan Community Representative
CCP Wrangler Community Manager
It was cheaper to leave the socalled talking with the playerbase to player community council people. You dont have to pay those, you can kick them out anytime you want and of course you can even listen less well to them....
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Athena Attom
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:50:00 -
[866]
l o l
posting in a lol thread. I like the ccp members name who posted it aswell!
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deadEd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:50:00 -
[867]
Originally by: Kerdrak CCP get rid of 30d GTC: people stop training alts CCP get rid of "ghost training": people stop using alts
CCP aims for 1 character -> 1 person...
CCP aims for 1 character per person: Main characters burn out quicker and have no reason to resub ever again
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Wikka
Mosquito Squad
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:50:00 -
[868]
I can only think CCP has lost the will to live - Every move of late has been to dissuade people from playing.
Drone/carrier nerf - ****ed off all the characters who spent a long time training for it. Speed nerf - a total rewrite of the game rules so even more characters feel they have wasted their time. timecode change - destroyed the ability of many low expendable income people to play consistently. & now a change to totaly destroy low income players ability to compensate by training a long skill whils they save for another time code.
I for one will no longer be able to justify multiple accounts or supporting my nephew's second account. Result úúú - Lose 4 accounts.
It's a pity I realy love EVE i've been playing for over 4 years too bad CCP seems Intent on following the Icelandic economy down the pan.......
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Majuan Shuo
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:50:00 -
[869]
funny...my account is closing in a few days and i was planning on training BS5 and coming back once school was done
not anymore...screw you CCP
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WeightedCompanionCube
Aperture Science Enrichment Center
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:50:00 -
[870]
Edited by: WeightedCompanionCube on 13/10/2008 20:50:44 It's interesting to go back to http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866&page=1 the GTC change thread from May. Check some of the people who announced they were canceling their account(s) and try to see through killboards or forum posts what became of their firm intentions. So far all of them are still very much active. |
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:50:00 -
[871]
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda You're either in CCP, want to fellate them, or...I don't even know.
He wants to be the catcher. That's what you don't even know.
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:50:00 -
[872]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
The fact that its changing alot.
And not in a good way.
--
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Wynteryth Fett
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:51:00 -
[873]
Originally by: Fulber
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: Fulber
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: Sarl Massai Christ's sake, Ghost Training IS NOT FREE.
How is it not free? If the account is inactive for 2 months and you log in after the 3rd month because the training is done, you've had 3 months of no paying on the account. So, you had to pay $15 to reactivate the account. In the mean time, you've gotten xxxx number of skill points for $15 that cost me $60.
Sure looks to me like you got 3 months of training for free.
"Cheaper" does not equal "free". If your reality does not agree, I have a bridge for sale.
1 month paid. 3 months free. vs. 4 months paid.
You're almost there, you're so close! Now, let's break that down... oh wait we can't because you can only get that free time by paying for the not-free time. So, it's not free, merely cheaper. Got it? * personal attack redacted - CCP Fallout
Typical of a spin doctor. You rip someone off and you say its for their own good.
Dude, if this was your business, how would you feel if you had 200,000 subscribers who paid their monthly fees and enjoyed the game the way it was meant to be played, but had 25,000 who used a loophole to get 3 months free? You'd feel like those 25,000 people were stealing from you and you'd do everything in your power to close that loophole.
This is a pure business decision. Those of you who are complaining about it amaze me and make me wonder if you've ever run a business at all. Customer service is an issue with CCP. But if EVE shuts down because of cash flow problems at CCP from not collecting the proper amount on every account, then what would you say? You sure as hell wouldn't think it was your fault. You'd think it was CCPs.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:51:00 -
[874]
Originally by: Kerdrak CCP aims for 1 character -> 1 person...
Aim for 1 character? Ofcourse not.
What they'll get though might be very close to that
Since this is obviously not a balance or fairness issue, I wonder which genious ran the numbers and came up with the fact that it would be a sound business decision.... haha. Boink! |
CopyCatz
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:51:00 -
[875]
Just the enraged Goon responses about the game being ruined makes this thread my all time favourite.
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:52:00 -
[876]
It's nice that one department in CCP considers these important issues that directly affect the majority of the playerbase and takes comprehensive and exhaustive actions to rectify them in a prompt and efficient manner. Bravo.
Oh, this isn't the "We fixed lag" thread? |
Aeronith
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:52:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Proud American It's a good thing CCP has several community managers whose job it is to talk to the community when issues such as these appear.
Where did the following people go?
CCP Applebabe Community Representative
CCP Fallout Associate Community Manager
CCP Mitnal Community Representative
CCP Navigator Senior Community Representative
CCP WeatherMan Community Representative
CCP Wrangler Community Manager
Runaway train, never comin' baaaacc***...
|
Dal Deinvisu
Ventis Secundis Send More Paramedics
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:52:00 -
[878]
I didn't realize it was possible to "actively put []time and energy into working on [skills]". Someone from CCP should try to explain that one. The upcoming change is unnecessary, unwanted, and removes one of (if not the) incentive to returning players.
I'd live with 50% training speed while inactive, best of one worst worst of the other.
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Lutiae
Gallente Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:52:00 -
[879]
I only pay for playing. If I don't have time to play, I won't pay. Training is not playing, it is not connected. If it was, you won't train while logged off.
-3 accounts.
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:52:00 -
[880]
Originally by: CopyCatz Just the enraged Goon responses about the game being ruined makes this thread my all time favourite.
They're ruining our game-ruining experience. Of course we're gonna post about it.
Hey, who am I kidding, we're gonna post about everything.
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James Potkukelkka
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:53:00 -
[881]
I hope this is a bad joke. You are royally screwing up the balance of the game with this move. --
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Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:53:00 -
[882]
Originally by: Mora Makur So I see people presuming this is about money, then saying that they will lose money. If anything, this probably tells me that this might actually be about balancing the game and NOT about money.
If they were any serious about game balance they'd go for GTCs for ISK and character for ISKs first.
They don't, because both of those bring them more money.
I'm perfectly OK with the change, it's their game, they do whatever they want with it. It's the lying about the reasons, aka treating me like I am an imbecile, that leaves a very sour taste. CCP shows no respect whatsoever to the player community, that's the most important issue to me.
-- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Nym Qyamara
Gallente Draconis Alumni World Coalition of United Armies
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:53:00 -
[883]
Originally by: Myk Taison "capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters"
hahahaha
More like "capsuleers who actively pay us some money on their characters"
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Complete Tart
Gallente University of Caille
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:53:00 -
[884]
You just know that right now they're going to be brainstorming ways to 'put a positive spin' on this, even if it's dishonest.
I expect a blog like:
'Hi Guyz, it's CCP Teaboi here
*Inserts popular meme to show he's down with the kids
We're doing this purely to streamline skill training so that it's a level playing field for all, this will also ensure our database doesn't have any bad entries bla bla bla bullshit
Oh by the way, you'll never guess what we have planned for fanfest...... '
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Keiko Kobayashi
Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:53:00 -
[885]
CCP,
In that case, PLEASE start sending email notifications of GTCs running out at least one day in advance.
Thank you.
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Get Sum
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 20:53:00 -
[886]
What the f***?
So you're telling us you can nerf the ghost training, that's "long overdue" and not give us the possibility of skill-queing or a primary and secondary skill to train that we waited for for YEARS now?
Now that's pure greed and doesn't reflect well with me... I guess it's settled: As long as it's about cash, CCP will spring to action... If it's about players, the couldn't care less...
wow...
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dobi woobie
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:53:00 -
[887]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube Edited by: WeightedCompanionCube on 13/10/2008 20:50:44 It's interesting to go back to http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866&page=1 the GTC change thread from May. Check some of the people who announced they were canceling their account(s) and try to see through killboards or forum posts what became of their firm intentions. So far all of them are still very much active.
also interesting that one needed 2 months to reach 33 pages instead of hours
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:54:00 -
[888]
Originally by: Dal Deinvisu I didn't realize it was possible to "actively put []time and energy into working on [skills]". Someone from CCP should try to explain that one. The upcoming change is unnecessary, unwanted, and removes one of (if not the) incentive to returning players.
I'd live with 50% training speed while inactive, best of one worst worst of the other.
No, **** you. Quit offering to settle for some lesser piece of shit feature. What are you, an abused housewife? Grow a spine. Find your balls. Call them out on this bullshit.
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Hyneid Fehlhaishyo
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:54:00 -
[889]
I am not a powergamer. I have One main account and a second account that I subscribe when I feel I need another character to get things done. This will essentially make it impossible for me to justify having that second character active. This will not force me to keep the character subscribed, rather he will sit Idle for extremely long periods of time without being subscribed. Previously I would re-up the account just because I knew a skill had finished training. Now there will be no such motivation.
For me, and many others, one of the main attractions of EVE was the fact that there was less of a penalty for not being a power-gaming 2004 character. This change erases that. I do not mind paying for one account regularly, but I won't pay for another character on a monthly basis. It is just a line I won't cross.
Claiming that it is 'unfair' to paying players to let Idle characters train is silly because many of those idle, training characters belong to active customers. The people who go inactive on their main account while training a skill are not that committed to the game anyway. They have a hard time justifying paying for even the one character they have, so how will this help? I have never met an EVE player who felt cheated by the fact that you can train a character while idle. Never one.
CCP if your intention is to get more cash flow with this change, it will not work. It will probably result in exactly the opposite.
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:54:00 -
[890]
Originally by: CopyCatz Just the enraged Goon responses about the game being ruined makes this thread my all time favourite.
yeah man, it's all worth it. horrible game changes are acceptable as long as someone you hate *****es loudly about it. nice logic ---
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:54:00 -
[891]
Edited by: P''uck on 13/10/2008 20:57:19
Originally by: CCP Fallout ... This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not...
OMG, i got no problem with the change but why can't you just say it's about money?
We're mostly not children anymore, I guess... Wait, that guy said it better:
Originally by: Lubomir Penev I'm perfectly OK with the change, it's their game, they do whatever they want with it. It's the lying about the reasons, aka treating me like I am an imbecile, that leaves a very sour taste. CCP shows no respect whatsoever to the player community, that's the most important issue to me.
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Shani Nerkata
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:54:00 -
[892]
Edited by: Shani Nerkata on 13/10/2008 20:57:51 New Dev Blog: Speed Rebalanced 23 pages in 5 hours... Total 142 pages in 2 mounths and a half.
Sticky: Ghost Training to be Removed 34 pages in 5 hours. Total : who knows ?
EDIT :
Originally by: Hyneid Fehlhaishyo I am not a powergamer. I have One main account and a second account that I subscribe when I feel I need another character to get things done. This will essentially make it impossible for me to justify having that second character active. This will not force me to keep the character subscribed, rather he will sit Idle for extremely long periods of time without being subscribed. Previously I would re-up the account just because I knew a skill had finished training. Now there will be no such motivation.
Same for me.
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Disteeler
Primera Fundacion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:54:00 -
[893]
I think this is going to make CCP loose subscriptions. I know a lot of people that plays off an on, but when they re-start playing they are happy because they have some new and fresh skill at lvl 5 because "ghost training".
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Ishbuanium
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:55:00 -
[894]
And in almost five hours we hit 33 pages.
CCP, doesn't it almost seem like the few are actually the many?
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:56:00 -
[895]
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda
Haha, I didn't namecall, then you call me an idiot?
I'll call you an idiot now, though- get out of your mother's basement and consider why you could possibly be against your fellow players and with the corporation on this.
You're either in CCP, want to fellate them, or...I don't even know.
You are only an idiot if you namecalled. As mentioned!
Also, I am not working with CCP, and dont want to "fellate" with them. I do like them however for their good game, just as much as I liked SOE while they had their pre-cu SWG!
But this is stupid! No other online game on the market allows players to earn ingame stuff while not playing! AND PAYING! And so it should be! If you cant afford playing, thats fine! The game will be waiting for you when you return, and as you left it! That is fair to the PLAYERBASE!!!!! WHO DO PAY! To be honest, it is YOU who dont support the fellow players by letting others earn ingame value while not paying!
So yes, it IS a good move! Its called fairness to those of us who pay 15 dollar a month!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:56:00 -
[896]
I think the people that are whining about this need to get a grip. Please. Everyone saying that they are going to go to other games needs to stop and ask whether those other games are going to allow them to advance without paying for an account. If the answer is no, then stop acting like CCP is some kind of ogre for asking you to actually pay for a sub to advance your character. You still advance while you are offline, so what's the big issue?
I mean, really. A service company that expects you to PAY if you want to use their service. How shocking!
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Erin Lay
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:57:00 -
[897]
this change sucks thumbs down!
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Trinneth
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:57:00 -
[898]
Edited by: Trinneth on 13/10/2008 20:57:50 A few months back with much trumpeting, the Council of Stellar Management was unveiled, they would represent the players, help CCP to decide how to prioritise their efforts to make the game better for all of us.
They went all the way to Iceland to discuss with CCP the direction they'd like to see the game take, and the number one item on their agenda was indeed a long overdue and much needed change regarding skills.
But it wasn't skills training while an account was inactive. It was skill queueing. In fact, there're almost no posts complaining about skills training on inactive accounts, because by and large this is a positive thing.
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Nina Korgan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:57:00 -
[899]
From the Dev Finder: PrismX reassures players that the future of CCP and EVE Online is not at risk due to the financial issues facing Iceland.
I wonder if this change is why they think they won't have financial problems? "Removing ghost training will convert all unsubscribed accounts into precious american dollars! Let's do it now! Nothing can go wrong!"
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:57:00 -
[900]
It's obvious that CCP thinks that this will keep people subscribed. What they are missing is that being able to unsub when you are bored, broke or away on vacation and continue to train is part of what KEEPS PEOPLE COMING BACK. When you unsub but continue to train, you maintain a connection to the game, and get a little reward for resubbing...you get to use the new skill!
By removing this CCP is removing one of the best player retention features that they have. They are really shooting themselves in the foot.
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Myfanwy Pisces
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:57:00 -
[901]
I've played EVE for well over three years and have seen all sorts of good and bad decisions get passed.
Like many that have voiced their views before me on this thread, I've had my fair share of 'eve lows' and the one thing that has always brought me back to this game is the fact that my character will have progressed ever so slightly in my absence.
I never found this gave me an advantage over other players or that I'd gotten anything for free as the eve universe does not stop spinning when I'm inactive so why should my character?
Does Myfanwy Pisces not dream when she is in hibernation?
She used to have the most wonderful dreams and could always take something from these 'experiences' and apply them to her life in the cold reality of space...
To be honest I was really looking forwards to the direction that eve was taking what with Ambulations and Faction warfare as they all added to the game.
Now I see they are merely replacing a void as this MMO slowly and discreetly changes form in the name of 'balance'.
I don't advise you to reconsider this as I cannot see the bigger picture you seem to have your faces glued to. I do how ever beg you to reconsider this now that the players have had a chance to throw their comments at the brick wall you've presented them with.
I have roughly eleven days left on my account. I will use this time to say farewell to the friends I've made in the corporations I've been involved with. Kinda weird saying this after ingnoring so many other whine threads & posts of other disgruntled players but then I guess every customer has their breaking point.
Mine is here.
CCP - Thanks for the time I've had and good luck.
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Sagan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:57:00 -
[902]
As an old player that has been here since 03 this change in my opinion is a very bad move. Ever since I started Eve I have worked a consistant work schedule of 3 weeks at work and 3 weeks at home. I have no access to Eve while I am away. The offline skill training was the selling point for me to start to play Eve. This is my first mmo and the only mmo that I play. But for people like me we will no longer be able to train a skill while we are away. For any reason, not just work. Hopfully CCp will come to their senses before this come into effect.
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Ed Rush
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:58:00 -
[903]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Originally by: WrathofAchilles I'm quitting if you implement this. Shiesty. Deceitful. Plenty of honest games out there with good customer service. You know... the ones that actually give a damn if a customer leaves.
How are they being deceitful?
probably by trying to introduce that in a subtly manner. under the table so to speak. giving a low punch up on everyone. no warnings. just a blunt strike. you didn't even notice, except a lot of us noticed and reacted. @ fanfest: please do some punches back on them on my behalf! :D
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Cory Trevor
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:58:00 -
[904]
Originally by: Annaphera I think the people that are whining about this need to get a grip. Please. Everyone saying that they are going to go to other games needs to stop and ask whether those other games are going to allow them to advance without paying for an account. If the answer is no, then stop acting like CCP is some kind of ogre for asking you to actually pay for a sub to advance your character. You still advance while you are offline, so what's the big issue?
The big issue is it's been this way for years, it works nicely, and it encourages players to run (and pay for) multiple accounts by cutting a break whenever a really long skill needs to be trained. Now it's being taken away for no real reason, and to make matters worse, we're told it's a balance issue, which is one of the biggest loads of horseshit that's ever come from the devs (and that's saying something).
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Fulber
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:58:00 -
[905]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett
Dude, if this was your business, how would you feel if you had 200,000 subscribers who paid their monthly fees and enjoyed the game the way it was meant to be played, but had 25,000 who used a loophole to get 3 months free? You'd feel like those 25,000 people were stealing from you and you'd do everything in your power to close that loophole.
This is a pure business decision. Those of you who are complaining about it amaze me and make me wonder if you've ever run a business at all. Customer service is an issue with CCP. But if EVE shuts down because of cash flow problems at CCP from not collecting the proper amount on every account, then what would you say? You sure as hell wouldn't think it was your fault. You'd think it was CCPs.
Yes, because ticking up a single number in the database for a fraction of the accounts has such a massive direct cost in manpower, consumables, overheads, maintenance and replacement parts. I see where you're coming from now. |
The Stampede
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:58:00 -
[906]
What I'm seeing is actually a removal of a kind of "rest xp".
(in WoW you gain a bonus to online xp gained while that character is offline proportional to the duration of the characters time offline)
Now, it would be nice to, instead of removing Eves "rest xp", reverse it.
The idea would be for each cycle(month) the account is subscribed, you gain a certain amount of "ghost training" time.
Ex. Account A subscribes for 6 months, this allows for (cycle*amount) ghost training time More Ex. I subscribe for 6 months, this gives me (6*2days) of ghost training time.
With a cap of, say, 40 days or something, this would be fair and benefit everyone, as well as discourage 90 days of ghosting. Signature removed. Please resize to a mamimum of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:59:00 -
[907]
Originally by: Annaphera I mean, really. A service company that expects you to PAY if you want to use their service. How shocking!
Last I checked, you can't log into eve without an active subscription. So you're not using their goddamn service, and you're not costing them anything. You're not grinding elite purps or some such garbage while your character is unsubscribed, you're simply continuing to advance at the same slow rate limited by real time provided you had the prescience to set a long skill up before the subscription end ****ing ambushed you (would it really kill you guys to code in some in-game subscription info?). That's a feature that keeps people coming back for more, not something that allows people to get ahead or get free money or any such thing.
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X3R0N
Caldari Boys With Toys
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:59:00 -
[908]
Edited by: X3R0N on 13/10/2008 21:00:22
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Sorry Wrangler, but you and the guys just failed at the customer support you've been so proud of since Beta.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain or even comment on this aspect of the game, it has just been there, as part of the game. The thing you are doing now would be like taking the Desert Eagle out of Counterstrike or taking the Warcraft out of "World of Warcraft" I mean it does sound stupid when you say "World of" don't you think ?
As a lot of other people have already pointed out you are not going to gain money by doing this, on the contrary you will lose a large sum of your earnings as there will be a lot of players with no incentive to reactivate their accounts.
Just think of having an account that goes inactive while training a skills such as advanced spaceship command V, this skills is actually a prereq for carrier, imagine having this skill only just started and then your account goes offline because you don't have any money to pay it ? or any other viable reason.
Like I started out with, you just failed. Or maybe as we should say, you just Owned your own customers...
I think I just felt the shaft in my ****
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Mora Makur
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:59:00 -
[909]
Originally by: Sagan As an old player that has been here since 03 this change in my opinion is a very bad move. Ever since I started Eve I have worked a consistant work schedule of 3 weeks at work and 3 weeks at home. I have no access to Eve while I am away. The offline skill training was the selling point for me to start to play Eve. This is my first mmo and the only mmo that I play. But for people like me we will no longer be able to train a skill while we are away. For any reason, not just work. Hopfully CCp will come to their senses before this come into effect.
Well you could keep your skill training while away, you'll just have to pay for it. Its up to you if that's worth it. Maybe a compromise where you get only 30 days of 'ghost training' would work. |
Hammeroffire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:59:00 -
[910]
Edited by: Hammeroffire on 13/10/2008 21:02:50
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
I'm looking at the [currently 31] pages of replies, and say this is one hell of a troll. -claps for him-
/joke The problem with removing this advantage lies in the simple idea of the basics of corperations and the consumers.
Corperations want to maximize their profits, Consumers want to maximize their utility.
What you've just done, is decrease utility in order to make profit because some users were using this utility to make a profit. In reality what you've done, or plan to do, is make your game un-distinguishable from similar MMO's. That is, your Product/Service [good] is getting closer to being no different than that of other companies from this change. [if it doesn't make it less "utility filled" than similar MMO's or games]
"Ghost Training", as you call it, Made this game different than all other games in that it allowed a character to take a break for "real life", and have a REAL incentive to come back to the game, aside from the game simply being there.
This increases UTILITY.
Some people took advantage of this, Sure, There are ways to fix that without breaking this utility of the game.
In the words of Barack Obama, while an economist he's not, "You're taking a hatchet to something that needs a scalpel".
As the PROFESSIONAL Economic Analyst and Chief Accountant of my corperation [I am a BEAN counter], I estimate that this will result in a net loss of profits due to, A. Lowered "new player" subscriptions B. Termination of all "Ghost" accounts that only pay 3 months of 6, or 6 months of 12 as your plan set out to do [good job with that, by the way, That is part of a scalpel meathod!] C. Loss of dedicated subscribers due to irritation.
Also, a big factor in the utility of a SERVICE is "customer service", which could use improvement.
As your company offers non-essential service in this time of great scarcity, I suggest you change your mind about this, and do more things along the lines of "scalpel" work. If you go through with this, I'm seriously going to sell the stocks I own in your company, Because I know it will result in a net LOSS of profit in the end.
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Raquel Trotter
Trotters Independent Trading
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 -
[911]
To all the people saying this a good thing with the argument "why should people play for free?"
Nobody played for free with this, as their accounts would be inactive...
I did this as due to RL commitment, I sometimes don't get to play eve for a month or more... Why should I pay somebody for a service that I do not use.
Now after taking to a month off.. rather than immediately re-activating my account, to drool over the latest skill that I have trained, I will most likely say "meh" and never come back. As my character has lost a month of training and I will be that little bit further behind in skills than the rest of the player base, and even less motivation to play the game.
All this does is to encourage people to stop playing eve in the long term, seems like a very short sighted greedy decision.
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Ban Dwagon
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 -
[912]
Are you KIDDING ME??
"This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time an energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."
When you gain sp by just sitting there, you are not exactly putting energy into anything, and since you train even logged off, time is passively being invested to skill. This is BLATANT AND OBVIOUS GREED. Just like making timecards twice as expensive, CCP continues to milk whatever they can out of the community. There is no advantage to skilling passively.
I'm angry.
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Takarina
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 -
[913]
Originally by: Dal Deinvisu
I'd live with 50% training speed while inactive, best of one worst worst of the other.
I could live with that too unfortunately ccp is not imaginative enough to come up with a creative idea like that.
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Keiko Kobayashi
Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 -
[914]
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
Of course, this is bullocks. The time-based skill system is EXACTLY there to make sure that people who are not hardcore players are still able to compete with people with No LifeÖ. IÆve not played EVE for several months, but my skills still continued training because I paid my monthly fee to CCP. This has nothing to do with game balance. DonÆt pretend this is not a financial decision.
Either way, faulty argumentation aside, I donÆt care, as long as I will not get surprised after a week of not playing that my GTC has ran out and IÆve lost a week of training time.
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CliveMerric
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 -
[915]
well ccp i hope your blog is good
im off to work now, i hope the blog is up by then so i don't have to cancel my accounts when i get home
hmmm wonder if this is really a trick to get us to stop whining about the speed nerf Clives BPC shop, Great deals!! |
AntonioBanderas
The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:00:00 -
[916]
well, i thought of keeping it polite, but what the hell the amount of greedyness you bastards show is astonishing. You are simply sinking lower and lower. Disgusting. I was going to write about it more, but it wouldnt' matter so f-u-c-k that. Pathetic. and yeah, ban me. i dont'0 five a f-u-c-k __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And SHIT!!!! \o/
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VLAD DRACU
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:01:00 -
[917]
1000+ in local, node gonna crash and rollback this stupid nerf
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Mallikan
Gallente Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:02:00 -
[918]
Good idea. --- lol.. I messed up.
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Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:02:00 -
[919]
Originally by: WeightedCompanionCube Edited by: WeightedCompanionCube on 13/10/2008 20:50:44 It's interesting to go back to http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=777866&page=1 the GTC change thread from May. Check some of the people who announced they were canceling their account(s) and try to see through killboards or forum posts what became of their firm intentions. So far all of them are still very much active.
What do you talk about it ? See the different almost 10k member loss.
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Konrad Wachsmann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:02:00 -
[920]
So since it took about 30 pages for the first CCP response, will the next be at 60 pages? Did they really not think this through and think...gee a lot of people are going to have questions, be angered, want to know the reasoning and proof for this decision. But instead we're going to post a lie, write it off as a "fairness" issue then when the shitstorm hits we'll have the devs handle it so they take the flak.
"unfairly affected by those few who have not" - OP
If it's such a small few that do this why so sudden after the collapse of the economy in Iceland do we see this, we all know the reasons why CCP, what ****es us all off is the lies, please man up and stop them. We're old enough to handle that the world isn't perfect and there are times when money is tight, don't **** us off further from an already pointless change to then make the reasons a lie. Yes in some strange sense it could be seen as "unfair" to characters who didn't utilize it, but that was their choice, therefore it isn't at all unfair they didn't use it, they just chose not to. Removing part one of what seperates you from other MMOs means part 2 is close, a removal of offline skill training and when that happens I'll say well I always knew.
It is a shame CCP and you really should look at the bigger picture of what this change will do. If you do have some evidence by a 3rd party research firm and not just some accountant that doesn't consider human factors in his/her calculations, show us! Please do not lie or cover the reason, show the proof, be truthful, is it that hard?
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Sinder Ohm
Demonic Corp G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:02:00 -
[921]
This idea sux big time, people who take a break for a month or 2 and leave a long skill training wont come back |
I m
Minmatar BWR Gamers Legion of Honor
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:02:00 -
[922]
WE'LL START A REVOLUTION !!!!! CANCELING ALL OUR ACCOUNTS FFS !
_____ STEP UP NOW ! |
Aliedora
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:03:00 -
[923]
I'll be dropping two of my 3 accounts as soon as they run out.
thanks a bunch, ccp.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:03:00 -
[924]
Originally by: Annaphera I think the people that are whining about this need to get a grip. Please. Everyone saying that they are going to go to other games needs to stop and ask whether those other games are going to allow them to advance without paying for an account. If the answer is no, then stop acting like CCP is some kind of ogre for asking you to actually pay for a sub to advance your character. You still advance while you are offline, so what's the big issue?
I mean, really. A service company that expects you to PAY if you want to use their service. How shocking!
And in what game does it take such a ass long time to reach the end game? What do you think would be effect on WOW if getting to level 60 (or whatever is highest) took 1,5 years?
The service company built up a system where this kind of thing is important as people burn out, don't have time, don't have mone, or something else. This was a way to get them to come back.
Oh well the new competitors are arriving and hopefully some of them will look at EVE and how CCP killed it off and learn. After all it's survival of the fittest and not most short sighted one.
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Troublexo
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:03:00 -
[925]
The next epic nerv wtf
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NAM TRON
HeartVenom Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:03:00 -
[926]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
Its all about money and nothing more. At the technical level I assume its going to also cost you in terms of database processing time to check for expired accounts to stop the skill training at the time the subscription was expired since you will have to do that at an interval, say at least once per day, maybe even during down time. Or going to wait until they reactivate their accounts to then reset the skill training to where it was expired. You guys already stop API access on expired accounts and I guess this was your next move all along as an attempt to grab more money from the player base.
I can tell you right now this isn't going to work. The second I read the announcement I knew you guys were doomed to failure and you will see a sharp decrease in cash flow with in the next couple of months, and by then it would be too late to undo the damage. Cause once damage has been done it is permanent, not correctable by any means. Bye CCP, it wasn't nice knowing you.
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Bytad
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:04:00 -
[927]
Bad move, very bad...
CCP:(we are making them pay more..., but revenue is falling, oww we need an economist to analyse this)
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:04:00 -
[928]
Originally by: CliveMerric well ccp i hope your blog is good
im off to work now, i hope the blog is up by then so i don't have to cancel my accounts when i get home
hmmm wonder if this is really a trick to get us to stop whining about the speed nerf
It does seem that way. Combined with the crap about 'balance' in the OP, it would seem they don't have a very high opinion of our memory, intelligence, or willingness to fight with our wallets for what we want in this game.
Well buddy, I got news for you. I'm one stubborn mother****er.
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asdlkf
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:04:00 -
[929]
1000 posts in under 6 hours.
seriously CCP. this is wrong.
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:04:00 -
[930]
Astounding how many players think this will effect them if theyre not logged on........
C.
Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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Lukas Devdan
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:04:00 -
[931]
5 hours old, 1000+ posts, thats 3 a mintue....
Rethink it CCP.....
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Evil Edna
The Priory
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:05:00 -
[932]
this change is a stupid idea even by recent standards
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Nym Qyamara
Gallente Draconis Alumni World Coalition of United Armies
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:05:00 -
[933]
Originally by: Disteeler I think this is going to make CCP loose subscriptions. I know a lot of people that plays off an on, but when they re-start playing they are happy because they have some new and fresh skill at lvl 5 because "ghost training".
On the toppic of CCP loosing subscriptions, they might, but not many. Lets face it CCP have us by the Gonads Wiki:- Gonads. We'll moan and groan and continue to post in this thread which will receive little attention from CCP, some of us will threaten to close our accounts, but in the main, we've all worked hard to get our chars where they are to just walk away from EvE. So I really don't see people quiting over it - as annoying as it is and in particular - how like GOA CCP are; burying their heads in the sand like an ostridge instead of listening to it's player base.
We have the CSM - isn't that what the CSM is all about? looking after the player base and liasing/interceding with CCP on our behalf?
For goodness sake CCP - wake up!!!
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:05:00 -
[934]
Edited by: Triksterism on 13/10/2008 21:05:39 Could I make a bad joke and mention that CCP are "ghostbusters" ?
---------------------------------------
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Fulber
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:06:00 -
[935]
I actually think the whole "unattended" skill training that this change touches upon needs to be fixed.
When you are due to gain a skillpoint, a button appears in your skill list in your character sheet, and by clicking it you gain that skillpoint. Then, a few seconds later, you'll be ready to gain another skillpoint.
I don't see why someone who isn't logged on and fast asleep should gain skills at the same rate as someone logged in and actively putting time and energy into working on their characters. |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:09:00 -
[936]
lol every time I press refresh there is a new page on this! :D
If nothing else this clearly shows how hard you 'hit a nerve'...
Rethink CCP, rethink! ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Triksterism
Gallente Frozen Corpse Inspection Services United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:09:00 -
[937]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Fulber I actually think the whole "unattended" skill training that this change touches upon needs to be fixed.
When you are due to gain a skillpoint, a button appears in your skill list in your character sheet, and by clicking it you gain that skillpoint. Then, a few seconds later, you'll be ready to gain another skillpoint.
I don't see why someone who isn't logged on and fast asleep should gain skills at the same rate as someone logged in and actively putting time and energy into working on their characters.
Wow, that's all I can say to this one.
Exactly. So I suppose I should pay specific attention with my twitchy mouse finger incase that button comes up while im in a battle.
Supreme idea. ---------------------------------------
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Nevada Tan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:10:00 -
[938]
Apropos of nothing, does anyone know when the Jumpgate beta is going to start?
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I have done a bad thing. |
Mora Makur
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:10:00 -
[939]
Customer Relations suggestions
1) Push the date back a month so that people can get used the idea. 2) I'm going to second the idea that you should get limited 'vacation' ghost training time with your subscription. Maybe give us a chance to buy vacation time directly at a reduced price. 3) Give us some sort of skill training queue. |
Furnak Tye
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:10:00 -
[940]
Well for one thing this will mostly affect older players who are reaching a point where the majority of their skills are level 5s with high multipliers and month and a half long skill times, some like me may be bored of their current tool kit and want new toys to play with. However newer players can't really afford not subscribe for too long as the time between skill levels are too short. The 06/5/4s/+ etc, us older players, the one's who are reaching these month plus long skills might decide to take a break every once in a while and leave a long skill going, there is always that incentive to come back to the game as we now have access to a new piece of kit, ship, etc.
That incentive is now to disappear, personally its the reason that I came back after several months this summer, I was bored, I'd been killing the same crap over and over again, dying in the same lag battles while trying to make a meek living in 0.0. So i set a long skill and took a break. What brought me back? Well CCP sent me that customer survey form and I though I'd give it another go knowing I had access to new stuff after leaving a long skill training in case i decided to renew my sub, already I had been sufficiently ****ed off with the 60d, the incessant perma lag since joining that made large battles that should be epic slide shows, and the general crappy mechanics that was making the game less exciting and more about grinding, waiting and being tharted. Die or Adapt might be the saying, but there's only so much adapting you make before you decide extinction sounds nice. I don't know, say I take another break? This may be my own opinion but frankly I'm a bit bored of waiting huge amounts of time, grinding away. Spose there are lots of other games and I could always donate my assets to newer players in my corp. Who knows.
Frankly I hate this change, CCP must be on some cash efficiency drive, squeezing as much juice as the can from their base by some jobs worth. But then what can one expect, it almost always inevitable with some companies and CCP seems to be going more and more corporate in its personality every month.
------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE |
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Shadow Lightbringer
Daedal Anomaly Zzz
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:10:00 -
[941]
This is a change that has been long overdue and I am glad to see that CCP is making it. IMHO, if you want to have a character training, then pay for the account. I also second the comments that these ghost accounts should also have their research point earnings and market orders suspended as well.
For those of you who will quit over this change, goodbye. I'd tell you to take your 5-6 ghost accounts with you, but due to their nature you already have.
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Perrax
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:10:00 -
[942]
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
It's all about the money, not about the service. If they really cared about helping us out, build a skill queue into the game so I can quit cheating and using a 3rd party program to do this for me.
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Ribeye Jaksom
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:11:00 -
[943]
Originally by: Triksterism Edited by: Triksterism on 13/10/2008 21:05:39 Could I make a bad joke and mention that CCP are "ghostbusters" ?
http://www.filmsy.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/GhostbustersPoster1.jpg
This is a pretty good post
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Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:11:00 -
[944]
If the next "big" update is walking in stations I'm going to fly to Iceland and take a shit in the lobby of your office, that's real talk.
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Wynteryth Fett
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:11:00 -
[945]
Originally by: Jack O'Connal
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Miriyaka yes, let's see, which is worth more: someone with two accounts subscribed 75% of the time (150% of one subscription) or someone with one account subscribed 100% of the time?
GHOST TRAINING IS FREE SKILLS HOLY SHIT BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE
seriously do you not understand that people actually subscribe to additional accounts and spend equal or more money because it exists?
Quotin' dis, because there's a lot of ******s about...
This is exactly correct. CCP earned more money off me even with my inactive accounts training because I had multiple accounts. On average they made more money. In fact, the whole reason I created my 2nd account was I could keep my main training while I was playing my alt. If that feature didn't exist I would have never created that 2nd account. Now I will just go back to the one account and CCP will earn less money from me.
I think people are not understanding what is meant by inactive account. An inactive account is one that you haven't paid for. It is not one that you paid for but just aren't using.
Now, if CCP says otherwise, then you all will have a totally different beef.
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Shoopinou
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:11:00 -
[946]
This makes me want to stop Eve definitely.
Did the product manager change recently ?
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JALUTAK
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:11:00 -
[947]
This is a big problem that it takes so long to train these skills that a lot of people are leaving the game and come feb 09 it might be my last after three years make the game more interesting and you wont have players leaving as much you dont have to make it so that everthing takes such a long time to learn or do things for us to stay with you just keep us from getting BORED!!!!!
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:12:00 -
[948]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett How do you figure that it HELPS their bottom line by having 3 accounts that they only collect 4 months of pay on vs. 2 accounts that they collect a year on?
Because it's basically impossible to keep an account unsubbed even 50% of the time with 60-day GTCs. There aren't that many applicable rank 6+ skills for a given character that can be trained in monthly succession. You'll end up with a horrible ADD wreck of a character doing that. Even with 30-day GTCs it was extremely difficult to unsub a purpose-built alt for more than 10-20 days at a time while sticking to a reasonable skill-plan. I'd really hate to see your character's skillsheet if you think chaining rank 8-10s is a realistic plan for a good character.
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Fulber
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:12:00 -
[949]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Fulber I actually think the whole "unattended" skill training that this change touches upon needs to be fixed.
When you are due to gain a skillpoint, a button appears in your skill list in your character sheet, and by clicking it you gain that skillpoint. Then, a few seconds later, you'll be ready to gain another skillpoint.
I don't see why someone who isn't logged on and fast asleep should gain skills at the same rate as someone logged in and actively putting time and energy into working on their characters.
Wow, that's all I can say to this one.
Read CCP Fallout's post at the start of the thread, and then tell me why someone not logged in should gain skills as fast as someone who is actively putting their time and energy into working on their character. If I'm logged in and developing my character, I should be rewarded for spending my time and energy, when compared to someone who trains skills when fast asleep. |
Znathsume
Caldari imperial support inc
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:12:00 -
[950]
hmmm the actual news item regarding this change has now been removed from the eve home page
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Peter Greed
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:12:00 -
[951]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
Alright, This is far from a 'necessary' change. This does nothing for game balance, so of course it is a 'hot topic'.
While the following statement is not a fact, it is an observed logical conclusion: You guys might be going about increasing revenue in a poor fashion. I propose severe caution in this line of thought.
I hope no forum rules were broken here because I prefer to think integrity is still an admirable trait these days.
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:12:00 -
[952]
Originally by: Shoopinou This makes me want to stop Eve definitely.
Did the product manager change recently ?
no but i bet the accountant did.
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Brutaax
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:13:00 -
[953]
Chribba thinks it's a bad idea. Therefore, it is a bad idea.
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Admiral Frools
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:13:00 -
[954]
Originally by: Mora Makur Customer Relations suggestions
1) Push the date back a month so that people can get used the idea. 2) I'm going to second the idea that you should get limited 'vacation' ghost training time with your subscription. Maybe give us a chance to buy vacation time directly at a reduced price. 3) Give us some sort of skill training queue.
Yeah thats right, pay to NOT play a game thats a stellar ****ing idea, right up there with nerfing 90 / 30 day GTC's
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Fioreni
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:13:00 -
[955]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni Edited by: Inanna Zuni on 13/10/2008 21:09:26
5. If you don't want to pay then use the "Cancel Subscription" button. It states "Need a break from EVE ? Suspend your account. You can Re-activate at any time" which is entirely correct. It doesn't - contrary to what appears to be the opinion of many here - say that you can carry on getting stuff (like training) for free while you are NOT PAYING.
Actually I asked a GM this exact question a year ago, they said to me yes we do allow your skill to continue to completion you do not lose skills or stop training. So that does prove it was put in as a part of the game, who knows if it said something to that effect on the site before this announcement, they prob removed it if there was.
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Research Annie
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:14:00 -
[956]
I am going to add my tuppence worth to the argument. I am one of 4 paying accounts and one of them went offline for 24 hours with out me noticing it. This would mean I would lose a days skill training. This is not a nice thought.
Like others I would like a warning when the account is due to expire if this daft idea is going to be implemented. The option is to rationalise my accounts and downsize the number. Which is bullsxxt speak for closing some of my accounts down.
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Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:14:00 -
[957]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda
Haha, I didn't namecall, then you call me an idiot?
I'll call you an idiot now, though- get out of your mother's basement and consider why you could possibly be against your fellow players and with the corporation on this.
You're either in CCP, want to fellate them, or...I don't even know.
You are only an idiot if you namecalled. As mentioned!
Also, I am not working with CCP, and dont want to "fellate" with them. I do like them however for their good game, just as much as I liked SOE while they had their pre-cu SWG!
But this is stupid! No other online game on the market allows players to earn ingame stuff while not playing! AND PAYING! And so it should be! If you cant afford playing, thats fine! The game will be waiting for you when you return, and as you left it! That is fair to the PLAYERBASE!!!!! WHO DO PAY! To be honest, it is YOU who dont support the fellow players by letting others earn ingame value while not paying!
So yes, it IS a good move! Its called fairness to those of us who pay 15 dollar a month!
How many MMO game use time basic skill training ? No one. Oh no, or you will playing with Eve 24 year for max skills ? This is just a CCP business politic. They just want more money for long time trough.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:15:00 -
[958]
Yes, how dare CCP insist that you pay the fee if you want to gain the benefits of something in the game?
Money-grubbing bastards, they shouldn't close loopholes that let people gain months' worth of training for a fraction of the cost of the time required. It's totally unethical for them to expect to be paid for using their game.
Actually, I'm hoping this change cuts through the fields of disposable alts on secondary accounts like a scythe through summer wheat.
Corp and Personal killboard
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Cory Trevor
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:15:00 -
[959]
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett I think people are not understanding what is meant by inactive account. An inactive account is one that you haven't paid for. It is not one that you paid for but just aren't using.
Now, if CCP says otherwise, then you all will have a totally different beef.
No, YOU'RE not understanding what people do. A lot of people (myself included) were inclined to create alts specifically BECAUSE they could lapse on the long skills and save a bit of money until the character got to the point where we could use it for something, at which point it gets subbed indefinitely (since it's now useful, it's worth paying for since it can be used). Without the training continuing when subscriptions lapsed, WE. NEVER. WOULD. HAVE. CREATED. THOSE. ALT. ACCOUNTS.
I'm not sure this can be put any simpler without MSPaint.
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Lutiae
Gallente Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:15:00 -
[960]
CCP If you would say, you are in trouble, and you need more ISK (Icelandic currency) to run EVE in the future, please tell, and I am ready to pay 18 EUR a month, if I can continue ghost training. But I hate if you think I am an idiot, which I feel now.
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JCache's Labrat
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:15:00 -
[961]
Originally by: Nevada Tan Apropos of nothing, does anyone know when the Jumpgate beta is going to start?
Now that's a good question...
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:15:00 -
[962]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Fulber I actually think the whole "unattended" skill training that this change touches upon needs to be fixed.
When you are due to gain a skillpoint, a button appears in your skill list in your character sheet, and by clicking it you gain that skillpoint. Then, a few seconds later, you'll be ready to gain another skillpoint.
I don't see why someone who isn't logged on and fast asleep should gain skills at the same rate as someone logged in and actively putting time and energy into working on their characters.
Wow, that's all I can say to this one.
Exactly. So I suppose I should pay specific attention with my twitchy mouse finger incase that button comes up while im in a battle.
Supreme idea.
jesus! this idea is even better than paying for CCP!
/sarcasm off
by the way: your time spent to think of this crappy idea 10 minutes time consumed to write a macro that clicks regurarly 1minutes...
by the way: your idea is already implemented! It's called clickclickclick.com and it's FREE!
And I am not paying to play clickclickclick.com I am paying to play eve-online.com
Just a TINY bit of difference ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Fulber
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:17:00 -
[963]
It's like shooting fish in a barrel.
A small barrel. With a minigun. |
Maconha
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:17:00 -
[964]
Edited by: Maconha on 13/10/2008 21:19:41
Originally by: Mora Makur Customer Relations suggestions
1) Push the date back a month so that people can get used the idea. 2) I'm going to second the idea that you should get limited 'vacation' ghost training time with your subscription. Maybe give us a chance to buy vacation time directly at a reduced price. 3) Give us some sort of skill training queue.
point 3 i don¦t care, but please at point one and two!! (i really don¦t mind paying for inactivity training)
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Alleneara
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:18:00 -
[965]
People really need to stop comparing this to the speed nerf in how they're both wrong. The speed nerf was needed in some form or another, because the nano***gery ("can't touch this!") was just utterly ******ed and overpowered beyond reason (saying it had counters is wrong - countering nanos with even more pimped nanos or a fleet of Huginns doesn't count).
The only comparison to make between the speed nerf and this is that the speed nerf was about as good call as this is a bad one (some of the specifics of the nerf aren't so hot though, like nerfing MWDs via scramblers completely kills off any blaster boat viability that might have existed - but that's another topic).
Also...
Originally by: Annaphera I think the people that are whining about this need to get a grip. Please. Everyone saying that they are going to go to other games needs to stop and ask whether those other games are going to allow them to advance without paying for an account.
I think people like you need to get a grip. Ask yourself whether those other games require you to be subscribed for years to be able to do the things you want. I was level 70 and ready for endgame in WoW in under 4 months, and I was a damn slow leveler - in AoC I was level 60 out of 80 in just three weeks. In EVE, on my original character I have played over two and a half years, got 38mil SP and I can't still do even nearly all the things I want to be able to do.
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Antarre
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:18:00 -
[966]
Since so many players are leaving, I'm expecting they want to part with items and BPO (and iskies won't matter since they aren't coming back).
In short:
CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF?
Contract it to me (especially the BPO's)
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Maliartis
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:19:00 -
[967]
I will be unsubscribing both of my accounts if this change goes live. |
pichulon
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:19:00 -
[968]
Very bad idea. Una verdadera estupidez.Saludos.-
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Furora Firestar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:19:00 -
[969]
This makes me a sad panda.
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Claudia Voltaire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:19:00 -
[970]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
So yes, it IS a good move! Its called fairness to those of us who pay 15 dollar a month!
Tbh i know a few people who just purchased wads of timecodes, sold them for isk and bought in game characters the equal of my own.
How fair is that!!!
Back on the jive though, im wondering why back in the summer of 2004 or was it 05, they actualy stoped this 'ghost' training, only to bring it back a few months later.
My guess is at the time they figured they would make more money by allowing it again, allowing people to build up high pointing alts would be my guess.
Things have probaly now, plenty of high pointed farmed characters going around, addicted players that 'will' stump up the cash if push comes to it.
Bottom line though, you gota love the reason given, balance, we care about it.
Honestly i stoped listening or caring to a single thing they had to say long ago
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coeathal vega
Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:19:00 -
[971]
wow, CCP, is that like a new trend, coming up with more and more reasons to scare people off using your product?
bad, bad idea. But well. It's not like you use reasoning too often anyway. ----
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Commander Spectre
The Funkstars Guild
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:19:00 -
[972]
Originally by: Proud American
Originally by: Fulber I actually think the whole "unattended" skill training that this change touches upon needs to be fixed.
When you are due to gain a skillpoint, a button appears in your skill list in your character sheet, and by clicking it you gain that skillpoint. Then, a few seconds later, you'll be ready to gain another skillpoint.
I don't see why someone who isn't logged on and fast asleep should gain skills at the same rate as someone logged in and actively putting time and energy into working on their characters.
I agree with this post. It makes sense that you have to be active if you want to gain skillpoints. Anything else would be unfair for the people who log in and play the game.
Ok so you want a button you have to click on every second to gain a skill point? Ok you win...you came out with an even dumber idea that CCP.
Someone please hide those Stupid Pills!!!
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:19:00 -
[973]
Originally by: Maconha
Originally by: Mora Makur Customer Relations suggestions
1) Push the date back a month so that people can get used the idea. 2) I'm going to second the idea that you should get limited 'vacation' ghost training time with your subscription. Maybe give us a chance to buy vacation time directly at a reduced price. 3) Give us some sort of skill training queue.
point 3 i don¦t care, but please at point one and two!!
Conciliators get the **** out.
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Wynteryth Fett
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:20:00 -
[974]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Whohohoho. I see, what is wrong. The lag too hard, dear CCP cut again playerbase.
1. The 90days GTC gone = 10000 player left the game, but the lag increased more, because they started the FW. 2. Ghost training end = min ~10000 player will left the game, but the lag will not decreasing because the CCP not upgrading the servers. Jita nod got + 12GB RAM, nothing else systems, and what happend ? Jita not lagging anymore with over 600+ peoples. 12GB RAM = 140$ (nice upgrade = 10 member x 1 month) Maybe the full LS20 server 1 blade x 2Nod RAM upgrade = 64x140$=8960$ The eve producing ~450,000$/month with 30k subscriber (35k online now), but CCP made a choice the 8960$ too expensive price for upgrade. LOL
3. What will bring for us the future ? I say it. The GTC comes to an end then.
Brilliant idea CCP, oh my....
You forgot about the overhead (Electricity, server maintenance, etc) that is figured into the price of your subscription. That has to be taken out first. And I'd be willing to bet that CCP doesn't own the building they are in. They rent. And I'd be willing to be that they have insurance and some kind of back-up system in place. That also costs money.
People need to stop acting like CCP doesn't have expenses to keep the game running.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:20:00 -
[975]
Originally by: Maliartis I will be unsubscribing both of my accounts if this change goes live.
No you won't. Stop being so melodramatic.
Corp and Personal killboard
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Sanadis
Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:20:00 -
[976]
Edited by: Sanadis on 13/10/2008 21:22:51
Originally by: Lethreas Lashnda i wanted to start now an alt charachter, but with this bullshit step i guess i wont. so they lost 1 more subscriptionv for sure because this decision.that means at least 4x35eur / person.means 140 eur / year.
poetry question: how many many account will be unsubscribe from now if they move this ? i guess so many. At the end they will be lost more money thats it simple.... if just 20 person wont pay anymore his char then they lost 1400 euro per year.and this is just the beginning. yes , this is simple pure business.they lost money, much money from now....
Umm, this has me a little confused... How is CCP losing this money when they never had it to begin with since as soon as people get into their long skills, they stop their subscription, thus entering their ghost training, and will not have to pay for it for probably at the very least a month. If you were planning on playing for a year, why in the world would removing ghost training bother you at all? CCP can not lose money that they are not getting through people ghost training. The worst that can happen is people reactivate those ghost training accounts just to strip them of their stuff. In the long run, you can not lose money you are not getting, ghost training is a nice removal.
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Fulber
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:20:00 -
[977]
Originally by: Commander Spectre
Originally by: Proud American
Originally by: Fulber I actually think the whole "unattended" skill training that this change touches upon needs to be fixed.
When you are due to gain a skillpoint, a button appears in your skill list in your character sheet, and by clicking it you gain that skillpoint. Then, a few seconds later, you'll be ready to gain another skillpoint.
I don't see why someone who isn't logged on and fast asleep should gain skills at the same rate as someone logged in and actively putting time and energy into working on their characters.
I agree with this post. It makes sense that you have to be active if you want to gain skillpoints. Anything else would be unfair for the people who log in and play the game.
Ok so you want a button you have to click on every second to gain a skill point? Ok you win...you came out with an even dumber idea that CCP.
Someone please hide those Stupid Pills!!!
See my post at the top of this page. Thanks for coming. |
Tizoca
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:20:00 -
[978]
Originally by: Miriyaka
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett How do you figure that it HELPS their bottom line by having 3 accounts that they only collect 4 months of pay on vs. 2 accounts that they collect a year on?
Because it's basically impossible to keep an account unsubbed even 50% of the time with 60-day GTCs. There aren't that many applicable rank 6+ skills for a given character that can be trained in monthly succession. You'll end up with a horrible ADD wreck of a character doing that. Even with 30-day GTCs it was extremely difficult to unsub a purpose-built alt for more than 10-20 days at a time while sticking to a reasonable skill-plan. I'd really hate to see your character's skillsheet if you think chaining rank 8-10s is a realistic plan for a good character.
If the above is true, then could you PLEASE explain why you and everyone else are having massive fits? You aren't able to save all that much, and CCP is just tightening down to the exact same level as every other game on the market. So WHY are people acting like this is the end of the world? Because maybe once a year, you are no longer going to be able to not pay for 10-20 days? Face it - the ability to actually do a lot with "ghost training" (without paying with CC) vanished with the 30-day cards. This is just round two of the same thing. You have to pay to gain in the game after the 15th, just like every other MMO out there. You still don't have to be logged in, just paying for your account, for pity's sake!
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Bedrock
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:20:00 -
[979]
poasting to make this 1000pages
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DirtyHarry
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:21:00 -
[980]
greedy ***s are greedy
Please do not make false statements about forum moderators |
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Lutiae
Gallente Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:21:00 -
[981]
I spend my last 3 hours with looking for my next game. It will be Jumpgate Evolution once it goes online. I hope I will meet you guys there.
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xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:22:00 -
[982]
how do this bulshit change affect a Ballance? Oo
Some one make a good explanation...
So you after 5 yesr just decide OMG!! we need to stop this feature of our game let's make ppl's more bored if thay train x99 multiplayer skills.
And i was thinking Netherland "drug" country...
PS. anyway dudes watewer we say CCP will newer listen... thay newer do. No Pain - No Gain |
Furnak Tye
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:22:00 -
[983]
Originally by: Tizoca
Originally by: Miriyaka
Originally by: Wynteryth Fett How do you figure that it HELPS their bottom line by having 3 accounts that they only collect 4 months of pay on vs. 2 accounts that they collect a year on?
Because it's basically impossible to keep an account unsubbed even 50% of the time with 60-day GTCs. There aren't that many applicable rank 6+ skills for a given character that can be trained in monthly succession. You'll end up with a horrible ADD wreck of a character doing that. Even with 30-day GTCs it was extremely difficult to unsub a purpose-built alt for more than 10-20 days at a time while sticking to a reasonable skill-plan. I'd really hate to see your character's skillsheet if you think chaining rank 8-10s is a realistic plan for a good character.
If the above is true, then could you PLEASE explain why you and everyone else are having massive fits? You aren't able to save all that much, and CCP is just tightening down to the exact same level as every other game on the market. So WHY are people acting like this is the end of the world? Because maybe once a year, you are no longer going to be able to not pay for 10-20 days? Face it - the ability to actually do a lot with "ghost training" (without paying with CC) vanished with the 30-day cards. This is just round two of the same thing. You have to pay to gain in the game after the 15th, just like every other MMO out there. You still don't have to be logged in, just paying for your account, for pity's sake!
Spot the new player, try 35 days+ ------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE |
Cory Trevor
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:22:00 -
[984]
Originally by: Tizoca If the above is true, then could you PLEASE explain why you and everyone else are having massive fits? You aren't able to save all that much, and CCP is just tightening down to the exact same level as every other game on the market. So WHY are people acting like this is the end of the world?
2 reasons:
1. It's the principle of the matter. CCP is taking something away, lying to us about why it's being taken away, and giving us absolutely nothing in return for it.
2. The only way to get their attention, even if it's only a pithy devblog that's going to ignore everyone's concerns, is to cause a stir. If eveyone was calm and civil and nice and this thread was only 5-10 pages, it would have been completely ignored.
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:23:00 -
[985]
Originally by: DrJ Zoidberg This is a horrible idea. Everyone needs a break now and then, either because the game is too much, or you're short on cash. I like to take a couple weeks off every now and again, and ghost training long skills was one of the best things about eve, you don't fall way behind from taking a break.
This tbh.
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ignobil
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:23:00 -
[986]
Originally by: Lutiae I spend my last 3 hours with looking for my next game. It will be Jumpgate Evolution once it goes online. I hope I will meet you guys there.
i¦ll meet you there
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Mierin Rayen
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:23:00 -
[987]
I will be slitting my wrists at everyone on the forums if this change goes through.
raaah emo rage nerd rage raaaahhhhh nooo my internet spaceships
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Mallikan
Gallente Plundering Penguins
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:23:00 -
[988]
Oh whoops, I guess I wasn't supposed to say this is a good thing. Instead: "WAAAAH OMG I AM TOTALLY QUITTING ASAP!!!" ******s, stfu, you're not quitting over this because if you do you can't train a long skill while you "quit." And if you quit your active char because of this, you were never worth a damn in the first place.
Good move CCP, I'm sick and tired of these boobs training all their extra accounts without paying every month just so they can turn around and sell them for isk. Characters are not a game commodity. Oh, taking a long vacation??? Don't want to pay while you're gone? Cry more, you no longer get to stay ahead whilst putting forth nothing.
To those leaving: bye noobs, wish I had a chance to annihilate you myself. --- lol.. I messed up.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:23:00 -
[989]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're currently writing a Dev Blog that will explain a bit more about this change and why we chose to introduce it, as soon as it's ready we'll publish it.
How about details on how exactly the change will be implemented "right now" ?
As in, if somebody on a lapsed account has a skill that is about to finish or actually finishes before the DT on the 15th of Oct... when they reactivate, do they get to see the skill almost finished (or quite finished)... or do they find themselves with NOTHING additional trained ?
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Booomer
Disco Biscuits
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:23:00 -
[990]
AFTER 5 YEARS CCP REALIZED THIS IS AN IMBALANCE
LOL!
Sad, sad, greedy ****s
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:24:00 -
[991]
Having read a number of posts, I have a few things to say. First, I favor this proposed change especially if it is in conjunction with a skill queue. A year ago, I lost two months of skill training time on a paid for account because I couldn't log in for that time. I don't think it's fair that paid for accounts can lose training time while others are gaming the system via ghost training without paying. Nobody cared about my whining then and I sure don't care about the whining now. Must admit that making this change right after the "power of two" advertising is pretty shifty though.
Second, having said that, I see 37+ pages of comments, of which all but a slim minority support ghost training. That's strong incentive to keep the status quo. Wish it'd be otherwise, but looks to me like ghost training is here to stay.
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Wirrtuell
Caldari Nova Research
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:24:00 -
[992]
I've read to Page 5 and last Page... CCP, thats a good move WHEN ... Yes, when you apply Skill-Queue and when you divide the training-Time with factor 10 or more. How much time take it from Creating a Character to fly a Cap or Titan? I dont know, i think about 2 Years.
How long takes it to Cap a charakter in WoW (sorry) to Level 70 or 80? 2 or 3 Month? In Neocron it takes 1 Week to Cap a Char (Spy with Drones).
Please correct me when i am wrong with this dates how long it takes in other Games.
Greets
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Mora Makur
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:24:00 -
[993]
Originally by: Lutiae I spend my last 3 hours with looking for my next game. It will be Jumpgate Evolution once it goes online. I hope I will meet you guys there.
I hope they have ghost training there for your sake. |
MenanceWhite
Amarr Red Light Navy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:26:00 -
[994]
w w w what? What's going on here? Did EA buy EVE-Online from CCP? ---
Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses
Originally by: Oveur
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:27:00 -
[995]
Edited by: Miriyaka on 13/10/2008 21:28:12
Originally by: Tizoca If the above is true, then could you PLEASE explain why you and everyone else are having massive fits? You aren't able to save all that much, and CCP is just tightening down to the exact same level as every other game on the market. So WHY are people acting like this is the end of the world? Because maybe once a year, you are no longer going to be able to not pay for 10-20 days? Face it - the ability to actually do a lot with "ghost training" (without paying with CC) vanished with the 30-day cards. This is just round two of the same thing. You have to pay to gain in the game after the 15th, just like every other MMO out there. You still don't have to be logged in, just paying for your account, for pity's sake!
Because I'm not always around to play eve. Because CCP's subscription system is so terrible that even on auto-subscribe, it still interrupts the subscription for up to a day (which would cancel your skill in training if you were away). Because I can't afford three accounts 100% of the time, but I can afford three accounts 75% of the time, which is a lot more than the one account 100% of the time that they'll be getting if this goes through. Because I burn the **** out on this game quite often even barring real-life obstacles, and find myself not caring much about it until a skill completes and I have a reason to return. Because it's a unique feature and a great courtesy to loyal returning customers. Because it makes training up a new alt far, far less painful.
Are those good enough reasons for you, or are you so such a simpering apologist for this crazy company that you can't think for yourself anymore?
Yeah, just like every other MMO out there. Take another look at that MMO subscription graph and ask yourself why Eve would want the rollercoaster subscription curve that flavor-of-the-month fantasy PVE pieces of crap have?
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chotaire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:27:00 -
[996]
Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
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Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:27:00 -
[997]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 13/10/2008 21:27:00 Oh wait, the CCP will losing not just alts, but active players too. They will never come back, after a couple months of pause. Might be 10-20% alt will still in game, but 80% of alts will not pay his accounts. I think 6 subscribe (two monts activating need an alt) in one year better then, nothing. CCP guys not enough smart peoples.
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Xankou
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:27:00 -
[998]
In my opinion this would make sense if there wasn't such a huge difference in how fast characters train the different groups and if actually playing the game could speed up how fast you gained skill points..... Especially when you claim putting time and energy into the game affects skill training, when in reality this isn't the case.
The difference with EVE has always been grinding for 'in game money' not skill points. Now it's going to be paying 'real money' in exchange for skill points and that is why most people are seeing this as milking their proverbial teats for everything you can
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Willie Lowman
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:27:00 -
[999]
Originally by: Mora Makur It will be Jumpgate Evolution once it goes online. I hope I will meet you guys there.
I hope they have ghost training there for your sake.
Does jumpgate have realtime training, or do you actually have to do stuff to advance? There's the difference.
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente When Darkness Falls
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:27:00 -
[1000]
I've always plodded through this game, running my schemes, getting stronger, planning for the future. I've always felt confident I had all the time in the workd to plan, that Eve would be there, reliable and steady, letting my take as long as I needed before making my move.
But now twice in less than 2 weeks i've had a brief flash of doubt. Doubt that the game is going to be here in the future. This is what kills games like this, when people start to doubt that it'll be around.
My first flash of doubt was with the banking crisis, but you guys posted and put my concerns to rest.
My second flash came with the way the OP was written, a vailed attempt at making more money by killing off shadow training, claiming it's to protect the silent masses.
I pay for my accounts, I don't shadow train, I don't care that people do it, but twice now you've made me doubt that you'll be around in 3 years time and now i'm forced to consider if playing for another 2 years in this game is worth my while should it disappear down the pan. Your making me think "am I going to regret spending 2 years planning to be left with nothing?"
Congrats CCP Fallout, I really hope someone gave you that script to post as if not you've pretty much destroyed my faith in you guys being around long term.
Yak
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
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Arithron
Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:27:00 -
[1001]
Looking for Conflagration M BPO's, If you are leaving and have one, contact me.
Ari
Better to be a live dog than a dead lion... |
Gunner
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:27:00 -
[1002]
Originally by: Lestat'de'Lioncort I'm a Marine and I go on deployments obviously, and this is crap.
Finally a Marine turning away from his occupation. *** 2007.10.06 R.I.P. Hatuk my friend.
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Xordan
Caldari Meridian Dynamics Violent-Tendencies
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:28:00 -
[1003]
lol, I wouldn't mind if we're told the real reason for it.
"This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."
isn't really true (as probably pointed out 1000x in this thread), because keeping my account active and thus my skill training requires no "time or energy" on my part in EVE.
I'm guessing that you're doing it to try and make more money...
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:28:00 -
[1004]
Originally by: Tasko Pal Having read a number of posts, I have a few things to say. First, I favor this proposed change especially if it is in conjunction with a skill queue. A year ago, I lost two months of skill training time on a paid for account because I couldn't log in for that time. I don't think it's fair that paid for accounts can lose training time while others are gaming the system via ghost training without paying. Nobody cared about my whining then and I sure don't care about the whining now. Must admit that making this change right after the "power of two" advertising is pretty shifty though.
Second, having said that, I see 37+ pages of comments, of which all but a slim minority support ghost training. That's strong incentive to keep the status quo. Wish it'd be otherwise, but looks to me like ghost training is here to stay.
I don't think they'd make this change without numbers to back it up. My guess is that ghost training is used by a vocal minority, who will make a lot of noise but don't represent a significant enough portion of the subscriber base to represent that kind of incentive to status quo.
Corp and Personal killboard
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AverageR
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:28:00 -
[1005]
Originally by: Inanna Zuni
5. If you don't want to pay then use the "Cancel Subscription" button. It states "Need a break from EVE ? Suspend your account. You can Re-activate at any time" which is entirely correct. It doesn't - contrary to what appears to be the opinion of many here - say that you can carry on getting stuff (like training) for free while you are NOT PAYING.
You are so ignorant I'm at a loss for words. What happens to any character's market orders when their account goes inactive? Or RP stuff and a load of other things? They are not paying for those either, effectively getting free isk. If you believe this has anything to do with balance or righteousness then you are badly deluding yourself.
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ghengis khan2
Shad0wtech
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:28:00 -
[1006]
all this squriming and writhing,. screaming like the victims you are , "ill cancel my accounts , youve lost tons of customers" blah de blah de blah, your all still here, eve is stronger than ever,. this isnt the first time and wont be the last, that you scream your impotent screams into tha darkness so vast..... [url] |
jack redgrave
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:28:00 -
[1007]
37 pages and counting... CCP well done.. havent seen a outcry like this since i started june last year.
Copy and paste this: "We needed more money so thats why we removed ghost training"
Btw it wont work as a load of people will stop accounts permanently. Stop breaking a beautiful game. Undo your mistake now.
P.S. People arent stupid .. stop using feeble excuses as well ..
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:28:00 -
[1008]
Originally by: CCP Fallout We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players,
Well, to be honest, it was a complete non-issue until you poked it with a stick in the usual CCP hamfisted style we've all grown to hate and hate. |
Kiri Croft
Amarr New World Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:28:00 -
[1009]
Wow, i knew the iceland economy had crashed but this certainly takes the micky by forcing people to continue being sub'd to train skills. i have to say if these changes are made live then id say some of the player base will leave and go play warhammer or even worse WoW , timing could of been a little better i must admit. these changes do seem a tad excessive and poorly timed
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elohllird
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:29:00 -
[1010]
Money Money Money,
CCP has become what it never wanted to be a big faceless corporation, with no loyalty to the fans who put it where it is today. They become arrogant and only care about the bottom line.
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Ithnolin
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:29:00 -
[1011]
Originally by: Lutiae I spend my last 3 hours with looking for my next game. It will be Jumpgate Evolution once it goes online. I hope I will meet you guys there.
I spend my last three hours looking for how to speak english...have fun with Jumpgate. Can I have your stuff???
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:29:00 -
[1012]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 13/10/2008 21:27:00 Oh wait, the CCP will losing not just alts, but active players too. They will never come back, after a couple months of pause. Might be 10-20% alt will still in game, but 80% of alts will not pay his accounts. I think 6 subscribe (two monts activating need an alt) in one year better then, nothing. CCP guys not enough smart peoples.
I'm having a VERY hard time being unhappy about fewer alts.
Corp and Personal killboard
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:29:00 -
[1013]
Epic fail ccp... AGAIN! Is this really that important, are you really that poor? Hope this is the ***ing reason for the lag in those fleet fights or else you just made a reeaaally stupid decision again...
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:29:00 -
[1014]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda
Haha, I didn't namecall, then you call me an idiot?
I'll call you an idiot now, though- get out of your mother's basement and consider why you could possibly be against your fellow players and with the corporation on this.
You're either in CCP, want to fellate them, or...I don't even know.
You are only an idiot if you namecalled. As mentioned!
Also, I am not working with CCP, and dont want to "fellate" with them. I do like them however for their good game, just as much as I liked SOE while they had their pre-cu SWG!
But this is stupid! No other online game on the market allows players to earn ingame stuff while not playing! AND PAYING! And so it should be! If you cant afford playing, thats fine! The game will be waiting for you when you return, and as you left it! That is fair to the PLAYERBASE!!!!! WHO DO PAY! To be honest, it is YOU who dont support the fellow players by letting others earn ingame value while not paying!
So yes, it IS a good move! Its called fairness to those of us who pay 15 dollar a month!
How many MMO game use time basic skill training ? No one. Oh no, or you will playing with Eve 24 year for max skills ? This is just a CCP business politic. They just want more money for long time trough.
How is that unfair that CCP wants to charge players for using their product? As I have allready stated: it is certainly unfair against those of us who pay and play!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:29:00 -
[1015]
This thread will go to 60 pages unless they lock it.
And it won't matter one bit. Injury.. meet insult. :D
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Mr John22ta
Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:30:00 -
[1016]
Well CCP, although I agree with the nano nerf, and to an extent this, I think you really have scored a bit of an own goal with these two announcements so close together.
In the current economic climate, people are cutting back on many "extras", and I'm sure a few are having to consider their Eve subs. By announcing the Nano nerf, the GTC change, and now this, you have ****ed of a decent portion of your player base. This move wont earn you more money, it could very well cost you!
I still love this game, but I'm finding that more and more things are starting to bother me, (seemingly) constant nerfing, boring POS warfare, Blob warfare, lack of 0.0 entry points, this turning into "cap ships online", increased sec status hits for attackng in low sec, changes that are of benefit to carebears whilst leaving PVP'ers in the cold, lack of decent customer support, the community/forums going down the shitter, High/low/null sec balance to name a few. I don't often whinge, and I keep playing this game regardless. However one day I'm sure I'm going to quit due to fail after fail after fail on CCP's part
I just think that whoever is in charge really needs to get a grip, and realise this game is in danger of going the way of star wars galaxies. You really are upsetting alot of the playerbase.
I'm in no danger of quiting yet, but more and more of your longterm players are leaving the game for pastures new, and CCP needs to look at balancing the needs of the company (ie increased revenue), and keeping your playerbase happy.
A lot of not very happy bunnies out there right now, and the more that leave, the less revenue you get, making it a double fail!
C'mon CCP, get it together
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DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:31:00 -
[1017]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker How is that unfair that CCP wants to charge players for using their product? As I have allready stated: it is certainly unfair against those of us who pay and play!
They do charge you for using their product. lol. Its not like you can play EVE when your account is inactive. Your character training != using product/service.
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Ithnolin
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:31:00 -
[1018]
Edited by: Ithnolin on 13/10/2008 21:33:35
Originally by: Miriyaka Edited by: Miriyaka on 13/10/2008 21:28:12
Originally by: Tizoca If the above is true, then could you PLEASE explain why you and everyone else are having massive fits? You aren't able to save all that much, and CCP is just tightening down to the exact same level as every other game on the market. So WHY are people acting like this is the end of the world? Because maybe once a year, you are no longer going to be able to not pay for 10-20 days? Face it - the ability to actually do a lot with "ghost training" (without paying with CC) vanished with the 30-day cards. This is just round two of the same thing. You have to pay to gain in the game after the 15th, just like every other MMO out there. You still don't have to be logged in, just paying for your account, for pity's sake!
Because I'm not always around to play eve. Because CCP's subscription system is so terrible that even on auto-subscribe, it still interrupts the subscription for up to a day (which would cancel your skill in training if you were away).
<<Since when? I have never once had my account suspeneded while on auto-subscribe.>>
Because I can't afford three accounts 100% of the time, but I can afford three accounts 75% of the time, which is a lot more than the one account 100% of the time that they'll be getting if this goes through. Because I burn the **** out on this game quite often even barring real-life obstacles, and find myself not caring much about it until a skill completes and I have a reason to return.
<<Really? That ONE level V skill makes your day? Sad...>>
Because it's a unique feature and a great courtesy to loyal returning customers. Because it makes training up a new alt far, far less painful.
Are those good enough reasons for you, or are you so such a simpering apologist for this crazy company that you can't think for yourself anymore?
Yeah, just like every other MMO out there. Take another look at that MMO subscription graph and ask yourself why Eve would want the rollercoaster subscription curve that flavor-of-the-month fantasy PVE pieces of crap have?
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Sagan
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:31:00 -
[1019]
Well you could keep your skill training while away, you'll just have to pay for it. Its up to you if that's worth it. Maybe a compromise where you get only 30 days of 'ghost training' would work.
Maybe I misunderstood the change. As long as you have a subscription, you can train well offline? Is this how it is going to be?
|
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:31:00 -
[1020]
Well, personally I am very happy that this is being removed.
Getting on in the game for free - and I mean real-world free - is lame. Why should x character continue to train without paying a subscription when y character continues to pay a subscription? No reason that I can tell.
|
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Slyton Silur
NorCorp Security Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:32:00 -
[1021]
I hope they change their mind, i don't want this to be removed. I often take breaks from eve, and i love that a skill keeps on training even though am not paying for the game. I assume this has been in the game since it's launch, so i don't quite understand why they are removing it now, beside the thoughts of money.
|
Jayne Cobbe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:32:00 -
[1022]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist This thread will go to 60 pages unless they lock it.
And it won't matter one bit. Injury.. meet insult. :D
If they lock this thread, they're gonna lose another big chunk of credibility.
|
deadEd
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:32:00 -
[1023]
Edited by: deadEd on 13/10/2008 21:32:22
Originally by: Jimer Lins I'm having a VERY hard time being unhappy about fewer alts.
Alts are really good at distracting mains when they get burned out on the large amount of stuff in this game that simply doesn't work, or works so poorly that it might as well not exist. Dread pilot burned out on POS shooting? Log your alt and go fly some small gangs and rediscover why you even play the game. That sort of thing.
|
Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:32:00 -
[1024]
I think what happened is CCP thinks that people only unsubscribed their accounts because they wanted to get something for free.
They aren't considering how many people unsubscribe because they are bored and frustrated with all the flaws Eve has.
A lot of people here are making the same assumption: that people only unsubscribe because they want something for free. In reality most people are unsubscribed at any point because they do not want to play anymore, for whatever reason. They leave long skills training because they think "At some point I might want to come back, and when I do I will have something new to try." In a few months that player might come back and give CCP more money to reactivate so they can continue to play.
What is happening is that CCP is removing incentives for former players to return, not encouraging players to pay for the game while they train.
|
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:32:00 -
[1025]
Originally by: Claudia Voltaire
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
So yes, it IS a good move! Its called fairness to those of us who pay 15 dollar a month!
Tbh i know a few people who just purchased wads of timecodes, sold them for isk and bought in game characters the equal of my own.
How fair is that!!!
You always have the subscription way! Which is the most common way of paying for a subscription! Either by visa or buying the GTC from a shop!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Gunner
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:33:00 -
[1026]
Originally by: Gunner
Originally by: Lestat'de'Lioncort I'm a Marine and I go on deployments obviously, and this is crap.
Finally a Marine turning away from his occupation.
On a more serious note, I also would like to see, like said earlier, RP not accumulating anymore on expired accounts, as well as all buy and sell orders being removed from market if the account who put them up has expired. Same for contracts, research jobs and whatever else.
*** 2007.10.06 R.I.P. Hatuk my friend.
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Miss Greed
Infinite Improbability Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:33:00 -
[1027]
Really bullshit change.
|
Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:33:00 -
[1028]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker How is that unfair that CCP wants to charge players for using their product? As I have allready stated: it is certainly unfair against those of us who pay and play!
They do charge you for using their product. lol. Its not like you can play EVE when your account is inactive. Your character training != using product/service.
Apparently, CCP disagrees with you- hence this change.
I was always amazed they let people train an inactive account, to tell the truth.
Corp and Personal killboard
|
Lucina Enyo
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:33:00 -
[1029]
The global economy is going into recession and customers are being hit once with the change to GTC`s and secondly with the no ghosting change. People just wont come back to the game not because its terribly unfair but because you decided it was an acceptable game mechanic for several years. If you play eve its because you like it each change seems to send a further slice of the play base over bored.
|
X62BETA1
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:34:00 -
[1030]
Sorry guyz but I agree with CCP on this one... BUT, I only see this viable if they want to ad the chaining/skill planner feature. If they do add a feature like that, then you could train a character for x years while not paying for it and that sounds stupid. But if they are not adding this feature, it is pure GREED and it doesn't have any logic in it.
Anywho, I really hope they will ad the planning feature along with the ban on ghost training... I believe it is really easy to code such a thing...
PS: Iceland has financial issues... Winter hollydays are coming and probably they are in need of money... :P, joking no offence, but ...ther might be a little truth in that.. :D
Cya
|
|
Miss Greed
Infinite Improbability Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:34:00 -
[1031]
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
Truth.
|
xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:34:00 -
[1032]
does CCP ever read forum? Oo
I'm realy afraid decision already has been made...
bad bad...
PS. Lineage 2 Anyone? No Pain - No Gain |
Jayne Cobbe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:34:00 -
[1033]
Complaining about alts is very interesting. Have you ever thought about where most your modules and ships actually come from? Remove alts (or the incentive to have an alt) from the game and enjoy the new market ...
|
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:35:00 -
[1034]
Originally by: Alleneara *snip*Also...
Originally by: Annaphera I think the people that are whining about this need to get a grip. Please. Everyone saying that they are going to go to other games needs to stop and ask whether those other games are going to allow them to advance without paying for an account.
I think people like you need to get a grip. Ask yourself whether those other games require you to be subscribed for years to be able to do the things you want. I was level 70 and ready for endgame in WoW in under 4 months, and I was a damn slow leveler - in AoC I was level 60 out of 80 in just three weeks. In EVE, on my original character I have played over two and a half years, got 38mil SP and I can't still do even nearly all the things I want to be able to do.
Sounds to me like it comes down to wanting a shortcut. I, too, got to level 60 very quickly in WoW, then quit, then subbed again and got to 70 inside of a week. And then quit. I might go back again for the expansion for a few months. Maybe. Now, here are the points:
1) What did Bliz give me while I wasn't subscribed? Nada. Nothing. Zip. Not even rested XP. As a consumer, am I surprised? No, because I wasn't paying.
2) How fast did the limited endgame in WoW get boring for you? Once you got a lvl 70 or six, didn't it get the slightest bit annoying that you couldn't do much but farm for an extra +2 stam on your feet or some such? Eve doesn't have that issue, by design; there is always something new to try, and even if you got 100% of all skills, there is the political game down in nullspace or the economic one to try to play. I, for one, prefer the way Eve does it.
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Rodj Khan
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:35:00 -
[1035]
Originally by: Miss Greed
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
Truth.
Signed.
|
Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:35:00 -
[1036]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker How is that unfair that CCP wants to charge players for using their product? As I have allready stated: it is certainly unfair against those of us who pay and play!
They do charge you for using their product. lol. Its not like you can play EVE when your account is inactive. Your character training != using product/service.
Character sp training is considered to be an important and vital part of the gameplay session. That is also one of several reasons given of not introducing skill queues. Skill managing is as such considered gameplay.
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Max Calimaris
Max Calimaris Holding Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:35:00 -
[1037]
This makes no business sense. This feature has been in the game since the start. Many people's reasoning behind coming back to the game is that when they need a break they set a long skill in motion. They then come back after the skill has finished.
I'm afraid all your going to do is exhaust peoples money and patience a lot faster in the current financial climate.
If you go ahead with this change then I seriously hope you compensate those who do 'actively put their time and energy into working their characters' with realtime levelling or some form of derivative of that. Otherwise it will just look like gouging.
It makes no sense that you would basically cull one of the games major unique features.
I'm going to qualify this with a
|
Karina Bellac
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:36:00 -
[1038]
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: DigitalCommunist This thread will go to 60 pages unless they lock it.
And it won't matter one bit. Injury.. meet insult. :D
If they lock this thread, they're gonna lose another big chunk of credibility.
Last time that happened, we ended up with the CSM. |
Jayne Cobbe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:36:00 -
[1039]
Originally by: Rodj Khan
Originally by: Miss Greed
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
Truth.
Signed.
:thumbsup:
|
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:37:00 -
[1040]
Originally by: Karina Bellac
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: DigitalCommunist This thread will go to 60 pages unless they lock it.
And it won't matter one bit. Injury.. meet insult. :D
If they lock this thread, they're gonna lose another big chunk of credibility.
Last time that happened, we ended up with the CSM.
Tru datz.
|
|
Becky Ash
Animus Incarnate
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:37:00 -
[1041]
CCP you sucks.
|
Tatsue Niko
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:37:00 -
[1042]
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: Rodj Khan
Originally by: Miss Greed
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
Truth.
Signed.
:thumbsup:
Gogo powerrangers!
|
Rediar Etile
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:37:00 -
[1043]
Even though I was getting ready to "Ghost" 2 of my accounts, I agree that this practice isn't conducive to "our" universe. I also agree that it would be nice to be able to have a skill plan that would allow for unattended sklling for a few months. I daily log on, check my accounts to make sure that I have nothing coming out of training (I am anal about this) and then choose a character to play on for that session.
Give us an unbroken training chain, and there will be no fallout from this unilateral decision to stop "Ghosting."
No Signature, no soul.....
|
Jaxx Blackfox
Minmatar Beelzebub Servants Mean Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:37:00 -
[1044]
I am really not seeing what you mean by that the "capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not." Skill training takes as long as it takes no matter if your sitting in station all day long chatting or our running lvl 5 missions continuously or farming isk through the use of many underpaid people in foreign countries.
It's not exactly like we gain any SP's from killing anything and that is what truly brings that unique feeling to EvE and the Ghost training is icing on the cake. Try not to make your game unattractive to new players and work on fixing things that truly effect the daily game play. The only reason I am paying for multiple accounts is for the fact that I can be training up one to use should I get bored with my main's current fit and a lot of those skills take a while to complete. Making me continuously pay for both accounts will make poor little me go broke and force me to drop all accounts instead of supporting one or the other when I have the money to pay for them. Not all EvE player are 25+ with full time job to pay for their multiple accounts.
I ask you to revise this decision and stop relying on your in-game economist for your out of game fiscal policies.
|
DigitalCommunist
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:38:00 -
[1045]
Oh god I just realized, one of my accounts ran out yesterday. I set bs 5. OH GODDDDDD>>
|
Perpetually Driven
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:38:00 -
[1046]
Originally by: Tatsue Niko
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: Rodj Khan
Originally by: Miss Greed
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
Truth.
Signed.
:thumbsup:
Gogo powerrangers!
Aye that'd be acceptable.
|
NephI AsantE
Pandoras Military And Civilian Operations Group Raging Phoenix Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:38:00 -
[1047]
Well after about 40 pages of response, I guess I now have a better answer to my question from long ago.
This is a horrible idea. I'll consolidate my characters and lose all my useful alts. Thanks CCP!
NephI AsantE |
Nilkarus
Gallente Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:38:00 -
[1048]
AHHHHHHHHHH, THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
This change makes a lot of my friend sad. Therefore, it makes me sad. I'm a sad panda. Sad pandas are hard to cheer up. Please think about the pandas!
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated - Recruiting |
Furnak Tye
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:38:00 -
[1049]
Originally by: xOmGx does CCP ever read forum? Oo
I'm realy afraid decision already has been made...
bad bad...
PS. Lineage 2 Anyone?
It has been made, but using spin instead of the truth,t all they want is more money. Simple really, I guess that comes with aspiration of being a faceless corporate game publisher, and if the side effect is that it especially affects the older loyal players, then who gives a rats arse. Currently they are the monopoly in mmorpg internety spaceships, so "nah nah nah".... ------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE |
Konrad Wachsmann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:38:00 -
[1050]
Originally by: Tatsue Niko
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: Rodj Khan
Originally by: Miss Greed
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
Truth.
Signed.
:thumbsup:
Gogo powerrangers!
X'd
|
|
Misty Macsquire
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:39:00 -
[1051]
Originally by: Konrad Wachsmann
Originally by: Tatsue Niko
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: Rodj Khan
Originally by: Miss Greed
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
Truth.
Signed.
:thumbsup:
Gogo powerrangers!
X'd
Signed
|
Drakir Nossral
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:39:00 -
[1052]
Just one thing comes to mind:
Greedy !
CCP, I think you just shot yourself in the foot.
|
chotaire
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:39:00 -
[1053]
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
And just that you know, if you did something similar like this, I would even resubscribe my currently ghost trained alts to help you guys out eventhough they all skill Battleship Lvl5 at the moment and have plenty of time left. I would gladly help, if you would tell the truth and listen to your customers in return! Rethink this and do something, we wouldn't let you guys down!
|
mastaurus
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:39:00 -
[1054]
NOT Good !
No skill queue for years and now this, i think this is too much regarding the long training times for skills
NOT Good !
|
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:39:00 -
[1055]
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
bottom line: epic fail in banking and WE have to pay the price - again - for some suit faking up bigtime... :P ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
|
Alexanndru
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:39:00 -
[1056]
make money money money make money money...
|
Joiske
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:39:00 -
[1057]
Well, interestingly a lot has to be said about the CCP PR department.
Firstly, congratulations for showing how it should not be done.
Secondly, congratulations for doing it !
I have to agree to this change. It does beg the question as to tho why did they do it as the annoucement provides ammunition to the whiners. Would had been a lot simplier to be up front and truthful about it in the annoucement.
My guess here would be a change to allow skill queues, which imho would out weight any benefit ghost training does. I have always found it odd that someone could 'leave' and come back and the situation was they had not been penalised for 'leaving'.
We pay CCP to provide a service, when we pay we are 'playing' the game thus therefore CCP provides the service of skill training. You the user chooses not to pay then why should CCP provide you with the skill training service ??!?? Its not exactly rocket science ...
This change will of course see a reduction in revenue for CCP, to some degree, but not but that much. Its a change that rewards the committed player base and will actually reward those that train alt accounts for the purpose of selling off for isk, as these will be worth a lot more as there will be less of them being sold.
What would be nice is for the option to train alts on an exisiting account, now, if this could bedone that the said alt will train with a penalty. If you train BS 5 on the designated main account it takes 30 days to do, but training BS 5 on the alt would take let say 75 days, get the picture, i am sure most players would be happy to see that capability in place.
But alas this is a CCP product, as they say, you dont like the product go elsewhere, find an alternative, otherwise stop whining ....
|
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:40:00 -
[1058]
Originally by: Jalxan
On a side note, I believe those who are more active online, should be rewarded with an increased skillpoint accumulation rate. That would keep a LOT of people online for longer.
Rewarded for being online?
Some days, the lack of a skill queue forces me to remain logged in for hours at a time, totally AFK, while I wait for medium-length skillz to finish. Those are days when I either have no particular desire to play, or else don't have anything I want to accomplish in-game. I'm just logged in, or "online" as you put is, without interacting with the game. I might chat a bit, occasionally, but usually during these stints I don't even do that. I just have the computer turned on.
Why should I be rewarded for that?
(Also, more generally, the fact that you cannot grind for capabilistic character improvement is one of the things that makes EVE a good MMO. You grind for ISK, yes, and standing, but you cannot grind for skillz.)
-- Salpad |
Kurall
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:40:00 -
[1059]
I wonder how many nodes could be made to crash in a signle evening, i mean shit what have i got to lose i'm just a soon to be forgotten alt.
btw f-u-c-k ccp f-u-c-k them in there stupid a-s-s-e-s
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KAZOO VENRI
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:40:00 -
[1060]
Edited by: KAZOO VENRI on 13/10/2008 21:41:12 Two of My Alts will be up for sale maybe Three of my 4 accounts Mains..
Whom Ever Buys these Toons Please Take good Care of them.
CCP that just cost you $23.50 a Month.. About $149 a year on Two of My Accounts I hardly play.n
It will start to add up as othere players do the same.
Kazoo
By the way how's Iceland's Economy?
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|
Backtracked
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:40:00 -
[1061]
Originally by: Misty Macsquire
Originally by: Konrad Wachsmann
Originally by: Tatsue Niko
Originally by: Jayne Cobbe
Originally by: Rodj Khan
Originally by: Miss Greed
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
Truth.
Signed.
:thumbsup:
Gogo powerrangers!
X'd
Signed
Lets go!
|
onymous
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:40:00 -
[1062]
I get bored of this game after roughly 60 day periods. I let my account lapse with something fun (and long) training and then 20 days later or so I have something fun to motivate me to come back to eve. Now, I'll let my account expire when I'm tired of eve and probably never come back. well played, ccp.
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:40:00 -
[1063]
I have to agree with part of what X62BETA1 said - if they are planning on adding a skill training que, they HAD to get rid of ghost training or lose gobs of income as everyone set up a years' worth of skills then canceled their sub. Can't have both, and I really think more people will want - and USE - the que.
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NeoShocker
Caldari Foundation Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:41:00 -
[1064]
Quote: A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.á
I don't see the logic of this change or how exactly upsets the "balance." If anything, it will do more harm than good. If you CCP guys will actually do this, then I must suggest, if not, strongly recommend that players should be able to train 3 skills training in one account(s). (still one skill training per character). Then i'd welcome this such change. -----------------------------------
Peace through power! |
Kenu Star
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:41:00 -
[1065]
I vote for keeping the ghost training.
Time and energy in game doesn't consitute how good you progress skill wise in EVE imho. I feel like I'm paying CCP just to get my skill trained wether I'm in game or not. I like to see the EVE as a game where you pay to play (using the client). Ghost training helps to eliminate that (pay for skills) aspect of the game.
I like to think of the ghost training to be CCP's reward for pilots who already put in a lot of time and energy into EVE. How do you know they've already put in that effort? Answer, they're training Lv 5 skills. Lv 5 skills are usually train for that something extra special in game. Come on CCP, you know we'll be back (probably the very second that ghost skill finish training), and there you go $$$ guaranteed. Another thing that I like to mention is that those who do long ghost training most likely have another account active. And those who don't do long ghost training and don't have another character will probably already purchased another 30days of game time.
We really like EVE don't we?
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Courthouse
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:41:00 -
[1066]
Originally by: Fulber Read CCP Fallout's post at the start of the thread, and then tell me why someone not logged in should gain skills as fast as someone who is actively putting their time and energy into working on their character. If I'm logged in and developing my character, I should be rewarded for spending my time and energy, when compared to someone who trains skills when fast asleep.
That's the nature of the game, idiot. If you want a game that only shows advancement the more time you put into it, go play WoW or WoR or EQ2 or [insert any other MMO here]. The whole attraction of EVE to a lot of people is that we don't have to constantly be online to feel like we're accomplishing something.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:42:00 -
[1067]
Originally by: Annaphera I have to agree with part of what X62BETA1 said - if they are planning on adding a skill training que, they HAD to get rid of ghost training or lose gobs of income as everyone set up a years' worth of skills then canceled their sub. Can't have both, and I really think more people will want - and USE - the que.
Duh, limit the skill queue to a maximum of 7 days or so, problem solved.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Furnak Tye
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:43:00 -
[1068]
Originally by: Joiske Well, interestingly a lot has to be said about the CCP PR department.
Firstly, congratulations for showing how it should not be done.
Secondly, congratulations for doing it !
................
But alas this is a CCP product, as they say, you dont like the product go elsewhere, find an alternative, otherwise stop whining ....
I wonder if CCP has its own "rapid rebuttal unit", hundreds of CCP owned player accounts to use on the forums to try and provide support to their argument against the horde of players who disagree.
------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE |
Jac Straw
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:44:00 -
[1069]
tbh this change only affect those who want something for "free", yes I have occasionally took time out and made sure I was training a long skill. Only because I could.
So now I get bored take a break and my char does nothing, so what I lose x amount of days.......
If "skill" time is prescious to you, get out more its a friggin' game!!
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Cincannatus
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:44:00 -
[1070]
Good call. Guys, a warning, you may lose 50percent of your playing base. But those people who live off their free GTCs and umpteen alts.... i really dont give a damn about them. This game should be designed for paying customers, and i have no problem with paying.
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Fulber
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:44:00 -
[1071]
Originally by: Courthouse
Originally by: Fulber Read CCP Fallout's post at the start of the thread, and then tell me why someone not logged in should gain skills as fast as someone who is actively putting their time and energy into working on their character. If I'm logged in and developing my character, I should be rewarded for spending my time and energy, when compared to someone who trains skills when fast asleep.
That's the nature of the game, idiot. If you want a game that only shows advancement the more time you put into it, go play WoW or WoR or EQ2 or [insert any other MMO here]. The whole attraction of EVE to a lot of people is that we don't have to constantly be online to feel like we're accomplishing something.
:merchi: lol |
LuthienTinuviel
The Vanyar
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:45:00 -
[1072]
Awesome CCP nice job there I now have zero reason to continue playing your game good good on loosing 2 accounts ironic considering you have been sending emails out to inactive accounts recently as follows.
Quote: Give us your feedback on EVE Online From: EVE Online research team ([email protected]) You may not know this sender. Mark as safe | Mark as unsafe Sent:30 September 2008 22:06:11 Reply-to:[email protected]
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Dear EVE player, According to our records you have cancelled an EVE account in the recent months. Our mission is to continuously make EVE a better game, so we're curious to find out why some EVE players chose to cancel their accounts. We therefore want to ask you a favor, if you can spare a few moments, to tell us why you chose to cancel and how you feel we can improve. We have hired Infosurv, Inc., an independent market research firm specializing in customer opinion measurement, to design and administer a customized survey on our behalf. We'd sincerely appreciate if you could take part in it and give us your feedback on EVE Online. Infosurv will be sending the invitations out shortly, and your responses will remain confidential; they will only be used for internal purposes to improve EVE. We will never forward your personal information to any third party, government agency or extraterrestrial race planning world domination. Thank you in advance for your feedback, and we look forward to the opportunities this process will give us to better understand have we can change EVE Online for the better. SincerelyTorfi Frans OlafssonSenior Producer of EVE Online
Small hint for you guys like CCP Fallout and ******ed ideas like this are at least in part to blame why I cancelled that account and why I will not be renewing this.
GG CCP I hope you have fun with World of Darkness Online it seems to be all you care about now.
CCP Atropos > sigh it's simple really when it becomes the de facto method for fighting it needs ot be nerfed simple as really - WTF? l |
Peter VonThal
Raygun Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:45:00 -
[1073]
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
signed
|
Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:45:00 -
[1074]
Originally by: Annaphera I have to agree with part of what X62BETA1 said - if they are planning on adding a skill training que, they HAD to get rid of ghost training or lose gobs of income as everyone set up a years' worth of skills then canceled their sub. Can't have both, and I really think more people will want - and USE - the que.
yes because OBVIOUSLY there'd be absolutely no way to have the skill queue stop starting new skills on an inactive account
I still can't get over the fact that some people actually think we pay our subscriptions to watch a character tick up in experience. Really? Is that why you pay? Because I subscribe to actually play the game and blow stuff up and kill people. You know what keeps me playing and keeps me coming back when all of the problems the game has get too irritating? The fact that my character is continually advancing over time, including when I'm fed up with the game and taking a subscription break.
Character training isn't a service to be paid for. It's a hook, it's an incentive. It keeps us loyal and insures that CCP has the most reliable and recurring (also evenly increasing) subscriber base of any current MMO. But because this game has so many problems and because it can become so tiring, few people are so loyal that they're willing to keep coming back even if their account has been effectively 'dead' for a month or more.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:50:00 -
[1075]
I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
If this gets rid of even a fourth of the hordes of alts that dominate the landscape of this game, it'll be a HUGE improvement.
Corp and Personal killboard
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Commander Spectre
The Funkstars Guild
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:50:00 -
[1076]
Maybe they could have a "Nerf the Devs" lottery with round trip airfares to Iceland with a whiffle bat and 1 hour to spend alone in a locked room with the dev of your choice. Hell I'd buy tickets for that.
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Lagioll
Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:51:00 -
[1077]
- 1 account, thx ccp !
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Arithron
Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:51:00 -
[1078]
bottom line: epic fail in banking and WE have to pay the price - again - Quote: for some suit faking up big time... :P
Actually, as companies go, CCP has a spread risk over many nations and currencies, so should weather the financial storm. Consider that the Icelandic currency is in free fall, and they get subscriptions in other major currencies...looks good from a financial position.
I agree that if ghost training removed, other freebies such as RP, market orders and such need to also stop accumulating on inactive accounts (accounts not being paid for). The RP alone must result in many millions of free isk for players from datacores (spread, admittedly, over a wide number).
I can see some logic behind the changes if Character farming was happening on a large scale. I am sure that some players probably made many billions from just such enterprises. However, that said, a total freeze on characters should occur if accounts become inactive for the sake of completeness (especially if taking the position of fairness).
I'm sure that Ambulation will more than make up for any players that leave due to Ghost training nerf. A financial benefit for CCP being suggested by players as reasons for this nerf just don't add up...
Take care, Arithron
Better to be a live dog than a dead lion... |
Tizoca
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:51:00 -
[1079]
Originally by: Miriyaka
Originally by: Annaphera I have to agree with part of what X62BETA1 said - if they are planning on adding a skill training que, they HAD to get rid of ghost training or lose gobs of income as everyone set up a years' worth of skills then canceled their sub. Can't have both, and I really think more people will want - and USE - the que.
yes because OBVIOUSLY there'd be absolutely no way to have the skill queue stop starting new skills on an inactive account
I still can't get over the fact that some people actually think we pay our subscriptions to watch a character tick up in experience. Really? Is that why you pay? Because I subscribe to actually play the game and blow stuff up and kill people. You know what keeps me playing and keeps me coming back when all of the problems the game has get too irritating? The fact that my character is continually advancing over time, including when I'm fed up with the game and taking a subscription break.
Character training isn't a service to be paid for. It's a hook, it's an incentive. It keeps us loyal and insures that CCP has the most reliable and recurring (also evenly increasing) subscriber base of any current MMO. But because this game has so many problems and because it can become so tiring, few people are so loyal that they're willing to keep coming back even if their account has been effectively 'dead' for a month or more.
So - if you take a 'subscription break' in the future, you'll come back to a character in the exact place you left it, just like any other game. So sad. QQ
As for the idea that they could program in something that would make the que stop if the subscription was inactive...congrats, they took your suggestion to the next logical step and stopped skill gain while you aren't paying! Now if they stop skill gain while you aren't logged in, you have something to whine about, and I'd join you. As it is...
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Fresky Smooovh
Comply Or Die G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:52:00 -
[1080]
I would just like to say that I resubscribed because of Cruiser V skill that was ghost trained while i was bored of EVE!
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Altholonas Kynslayer
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:52:00 -
[1081]
all 3 of mine have been terminated have a nice day
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Fulber
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:52:00 -
[1082]
Originally by: Tizoca So - if you take a 'subscription break' in the future, you'll come back to a character in the exact place you left it, just like any other game. So sad. QQ
+rep for the QQ emote. |
Skaz
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:52:00 -
[1083]
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
THIS MAN FOR KING OF EVE!!!
Not really but he does make a point... - -
PINK PINK PINK PINK |
Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:52:00 -
[1084]
Originally by: Jimer Lins If this gets rid of even a fourth of the hordes of alts that dominate the landscape of this game, it'll be a HUGE improvement.
Gosh, yes, alts, so terrible. They're just ruining the game! By requiring more accounts and injecting more money into it! Yes!
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Maria Huana
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:52:00 -
[1085]
You will be losing all three of my accounts if you do this
Man, they already done this! Say goodbye to ur alts
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Joiske
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:52:00 -
[1086]
well, i hope those of you pyramid posting get slapped with the ban bat both in forums and in game, cause, its just immature.
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Mymh Heretache
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:53:00 -
[1087]
* For the average Joe this change has very little impact on his/her gameplay, it'll just make it a nuissance for those with multiple accounts/holidays/etc. * Alot of players will dislike this.
Now, look at those two points above, and think for a second.. why would CCP do this thing? It doesn't affect much on a personal level and it's been in the game for 5year+. And it'll **** off their customer base. Do you think they enjoy ****ing people that pays their bills off?
Take a look at the character sales section, and you'll see why CCP feel forced to act now, years later. This change isn't unfair to anyone really tho. I've benefited from it personally, did bs5 etc while accounts been inactive. I'm just glad I could do it. I've expected this change since day one and not ****ed it happens. It was bound to.
Mostly it's just embarrassing for CCP that they didn't predict this situation.
|
Nathan Lee
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:53:00 -
[1088]
A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Fixing all the bugs in EVE.This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into Playing Eve online will no longer be unfairly affected by in game bugs.
We fecking wish, Broken game, despite this spent 20 pounds on alt account 2 months ago was looking forward to doing bs 5 over xmas while i need the extra cash then reactive since buying gtc with isk has gone through the roof. I dont think ill bother tbh.
Two words Jumpgate Evolution, be afraid be very afraid ccp
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Huey Xiong
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:53:00 -
[1089]
This will make it so players who play on and off will take forever to get t2 or any advanced training done. I hate paying for something that I am not using and with the current system I like coming back to possibly something new to use.
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Cory Trevor
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:53:00 -
[1090]
Originally by: Tizoca So - if you take a 'subscription break' in the future, you'll come back to a character in the exact place you left it, just like any other game. So sad. QQ
No, without the ghost training the 'subscription break' will become 'quitting the game and playing something else' instead. Being able to come back to new skills and new ships to fly because of it is one of the big reasons people resub in the first place.
|
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Karl Luckner
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:54:00 -
[1091]
Well, I was really considering this "power of two thingy". Thx for helping me with a quick decision
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Jesters Knight
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:54:00 -
[1092]
god i hate these forums
Highsec POS's Skip the wait and research in the fast lane |
dune
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:55:00 -
[1093]
Originally by: Jimer Lins I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
If this gets rid of even a fourth of the hordes of alts that dominate the landscape of this game, it'll be a HUGE improvement.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:55:00 -
[1094]
Originally by: Miriyaka
Originally by: Jimer Lins If this gets rid of even a fourth of the hordes of alts that dominate the landscape of this game, it'll be a HUGE improvement.
Gosh, yes, alts, so terrible. They're just ruining the game! By requiring more accounts and injecting more money into it! Yes!
Only with ghost training, they're not... they're just disposable nonentities that people use while their ghost account is still active for a skill change. Heaven forfend that people have to start using a real character to scout for gatecamps or do recon work.
Corp and Personal killboard
|
Somealt Ofmine
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:55:00 -
[1095]
After this thread I'm definitely buying stock in tin foil manufacturing. Come on guys. CCP isn't so dumb as to think that this change will be anything better than revenue neutral (they aren't going to net any more money).
What it will slow down or stop is this chain:
Dyspro Moon >> Isk >> GTC >> Cap Pilot Alt Farming >> Dyspro Moon.
They just made it twice as expensive (isk wise) to do this.
SP is the grind in this game. It takes time to power up your account, and it costs money for the time. In no other game do the holders of multiple accounts have a structural advantage over those who only have one. In no other game can a powerful guild/clan/alliance easily fund alt farming purely from their assets in game.
As I see it, this move further levels the playing field between the "power gamer" who knows and plays all the angles (like ghost training and alt farming) and the "average joe" who pays his one account subscription and tries to compete. Overall, it'll be good for the game.
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Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:55:00 -
[1096]
I personally don't mind this change as my 4 accounts are permasubbed anyways. However I do hope the reason for this change to happen in the first place is as a prerequsite to get a skill queue implemented.
|
Kyle Broflovski
Caldari Imperium Galactica
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:55:00 -
[1097]
Money, money, money Must be funny In the rich mans world Money, money, money Always sunny In the rich mans world Aha-ahaaa All the things I could do If I had a little money Its a rich mans world
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Ross Sylibus
Without Reason
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:56:00 -
[1098]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
i disaprove of this action
|
Uni Zueto
Amarr Nakama Gemini Federation
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:57:00 -
[1099]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik I don't particularly mind this change. (I do know a person who buys "cheap" characters and just trains up the "pesky lvl5 skills" with account breaks, re-selling the character as a "fully-trained mothership pilot" - he makes quite some ISK with that. I don't think it's a good feature.)
I do have two problems with this change, though.
The first one is that there is basically no warning at all that your game time is about to expire. From one day to the next, it goes "account expired." It would be highly annoying to find out that you weren't training your skill for 1-2 days because you didn't log in yesterday. Please add a reminder "your game time is running out in 7 days" or so when you log in.
The other is that you will lose more players that way. I know quite a few people who were in an "eve low" and let their accounts expire. They set up a long skill, and at some point they thought "oh, my skill's done, let's check back", reactivating their accounts. "EVE lows" are very common, they come and go, and this was one way to "bridge" them.
But as I said, I personally do not mind the change. Just PLEASE tell me in advance when my account is about to expire. ;-)
This man strikes it right on the head. I'm tired of my GTC expiring without notice and I've gotten "Eved-out" (Eve Burnout) every year of my three years and left for a month to 3 months with 20 days training going on and 90 day sell orders up. These breaks weren't even planned just 2 days in a row I just stopped logging and did something else with my free time. If no new skill was waiting for me and my orders were immediately canceled when my account lapsed then I doubt I would still be playing. My desire for something new would have taken me to some of the new MMO games sprouting up every few months.
If this is because of the credit crisis and you need the money just say so... 'May all your ventures be profitable' - Caldari Farewell |
Cynaux Aulte
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:59:00 -
[1100]
Going to keep this short and sweet, you are going down a slippery slope here this is something which is a big selling point for EvE and encourages people to have multiple accounts, this will just make people sell those accounts or just stop playing in that way altogether, I currently have various characters I do for different things for my alliance and I will just cancel all of them apart from my "fun" character (IE character that can fly nanohacs etc) and sell the rest.
If characters did not train when you lapsed I would have quit long ago, and in fact this is making that decision a lot easier.
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Lord Melon
KOVEN Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:00:00 -
[1101]
"A long overdue and much needed change"
Wrong, and, wrong - it is the ONLY reason that I resub time to time, knowing I might have something new or better when I do
The 60day GTC was bad enough
I cant see how this is going to help icelands economy, halving the subscribing players :S
Also, when China was launched this way, CCP stated that they would not change the unsub skill training on TQ - kinda a lie then ?
I had hoped this was an attempt to see how fast a thread could grow, or a fund raiser for Comic Relief maybe? Let's hope Im right, gonna be a PITA selling all my stuff off and finding another way to pay for a way to waste a load of time :(
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:00:00 -
[1102]
Originally by: Praesus Lecti I quite doubt that the number of people who are declaring that they are canceling additional accounts will actually do so. But I really hope they do...I prayto every conceivable diety that the accounts are indeed canceled and remain gone forever. I'd love to see the herd thin out a bit.
CCP will not go bankrupt over this decision. Their balance sheet will barely register a blip with this change. Cry all you emo tears you can muster, this is a good change to EVE.
I would like to hear you say this again after you are done playing all by yourself... :D
CCP will go bankrupt after all those "herds" stop paying for this... This is not my first MMORPG and the first sign when things went downhill were always related with money... and I'm gonna tell you:
After the "herd" cleared all that remained were spiders and macros...
good luck... ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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ignobil
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:01:00 -
[1103]
Originally by: Ri****ulo I am a bit impartial here as i don't really do ghost training. I like playing too much to take a break.
That said, i suppose no one told CCP that training queues would be something the player base would like, but nothing really that important. After all, its been years without it anyway.
Training queue and ghost training cant exist together and as the CSM told CCP "We want training queues", i guess CCP went for it...
Unfortunately no one forethought this choice between skill queue training and ghost training. For the majority, the first is a luxury and the second a necessity.
In the end, CCP must be pretty ****ed with the CSM and this will make it more deaf to its recommendations in the future.
Result: Epic fail everyone, Epic fail CCP if they really go through with this.
/signed
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Stellar Reaper
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:01:00 -
[1104]
If they add skill queue, then I don't mind the change!
But I also think that the change is logical, and would force multi account holders "alts" to reduce their alts number, and adds more stress to account sellers... if that is what CCP is planning!
I believe a deve blog about this change would be a plus. --------- Will work for your forzen corpses! |
Arithron
Gallente Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:01:00 -
[1105]
Can someone explain, to all those that fail to understand, how having ghost training (and hence having players with multiple accounts they don't pay for but spend most of the time inactive) makes CCP any money at all?
Better to be a live dog than a dead lion... |
Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:01:00 -
[1106]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 13/10/2008 22:02:04 How many alt have the EVE ? 10k ? One alt need for ghost training 6x60 day subscription = 6x35$ or euro = 210$ or euro in one year. 10k alt = 2,100,000,00$ loss/year dear CCP Ok not 2,1m, just 2.1m summ of 80-90% because 10-20% alt will still there in game.
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Rancid Oswald
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:01:00 -
[1107]
Only ballanced as long as Buy orders/Sell orders/Research points are stopped too!!
Why should people earn isk when not paying?
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:01:00 -
[1108]
I have several accounts(More than 2) that are paid for and have always been paid for by credit card, have never lapsed for long skills, and have never timecarded. But even I see this as a poor and woefully misguided choice from CCP's choice.
Both this and the timecard decision really let a lot of people dont(not me, its making me stupid rich) and should be seriously rethought.
Also **** you guys that want skill qeue's, you can't have them till we get them for setting up a POS. A common deathstar takes over EIGHT HOURS of click..drag drag drag drag drag drag drag, click *wait 10 mins*. Click...drag drag drag drag drag drag *wait 10 mins*. FOR EIGHT HOURS. Its soul shattering work. ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
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Jaxx Blackfox
Minmatar Beelzebub Servants Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:02:00 -
[1109]
Edited by: Jaxx Blackfox on 13/10/2008 22:02:45 Never thought that they would actually do something to make me mad enough. I hereby announce that all Dev and GM's are kill on sight within Mean Coalition Territory.
Might not catch any but will be damn fun trying.
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PsychoBones II
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:03:00 -
[1110]
Originally by: Kyle Broflovski Money, money, money Must be funny In the rich mans world Money, money, money Always sunny In the rich mans world Aha-ahaaa All the things I could do If I had a little money Its a rich mans world
<3 Abba
-1 account.
Quit banning me. |
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Lagioll
Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:03:00 -
[1111]
42 pages and no response ?
nice work ccp
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Tomoe Heth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:03:00 -
[1112]
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up.
QFtMFT!
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Nobody 2
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:03:00 -
[1113]
Not everyone can reading and understanding what "Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state" realy means.
Normaly you payed for an account whith the 3 characters, but very much people in growning numbers take the choice of ghost training, this is saying skill an account for 60 days or longer in skilltime, but they payed for an 30 days account - normaly now the skill is not stopping and after 60 days the 60-day skill is ready, the gamer come online and payed for his account and see that the skill is ready, say 30 day not paying for an skill result.
We must greatly thanks the many ghost_gamers for not paying the accounts, we have thanking this bad bastards for ruined this option in the game.
Nobody
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Spectre80
Caldari The Knights Templar Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:03:00 -
[1114]
i have once had my alt inactive for about month trained something to lvl5 at that time and didnt have much to do with it meanwhile so decided to take that small break. and now it will not be possible soon. i can only say im not happy about that decision ccp. and looking at all these posts id say some people are quite ****ed off atm.. care to rethink?
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Ed Rush
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:04:00 -
[1115]
Man how long does it take to write a blog entry that describes the real reasons why you are about to do that... unless you're carefully writing alot of clarifying bullshit in detail.
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Uni Zueto
Amarr Nakama Gemini Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:04:00 -
[1116]
(I can't edit my post so here' the edit)
You could at least implement the dual skill training mechanism that you mentioned in 2007 where a short skill got 50% of the SP's and the long skill the other 50%. That way we would have something new to look forward to quite often as the fast skills complete.
'May all your ventures be profitable' - Caldari Farewell |
Princess 02
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:05:00 -
[1117]
I believe this will balance:
- Alts - Capital Online - Real-Life Rich person with multiple accounts being BETTER than Real-Life Average earning with 1 or MAX 2 accounts (remember we should all be equal on the internet and any game be it sports or video games) - The devaluation of skill points
This change WILL bring some good to EVE... HOWEVER, if CCP is ever in critical financial difficulties (due to loss of massive alt subscriptions), I WANT THE ECONOMIST / ACCOUNTANT / PROTAGONISTS, i.e. THOSE people who BROUGHT FORWARD or/and VALIDATED this change, FIRED!!!
HEAR ME CCP!!! THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE THE FIRST TO EH FIRING SQUAD!!!
Such is the consequence. of business and this money-grabbing change CCP want to implement.
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Nebuchadnezzar I
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:05:00 -
[1118]
I must say that so many things are being done recently that truly fail and then THIS?
****ing of customers seem to be the recent strategy.
NEXT: The release of something that makes us go *ohhhh shiny* - it wont make me forget these ridicolous changes you have made to play cost and gameplay.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:05:00 -
[1119]
Hey, thanks for breaking the forum layout with that bloody ginormous image.
Corp and Personal killboard
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DaDutchDude
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:06:00 -
[1120]
/me lols So this thread is now officially rage quitters central eh?
I am perfectly fine with this change: you don't pay, you don't train, because yes, it does give you an unfair advantage over people who actually do pay for training time.
And for al the rage quitters: If you enjoy playing the training game without paying for it and actually not being able to play, then you should enjoy not playing at all as well. Please, by all means, cancel all your accounts and go away, cuz I won't miss inactive characters that are just being nursed into the character bazaar.
Oh and BTW: stuff, your, I can haz?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:06:00 -
[1121]
2 accounts down. No other comment.
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:06:00 -
[1122]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist http://epicwords.net/images/ninjas.jpg
nice one!
infinetly funnier than this whole announcment... ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Sanadis
Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:07:00 -
[1123]
Originally by: Praesus Lecti I quite doubt that the number of people who are declaring that they are canceling additional accounts will actually do so. But I really hope they do...I prayto every conceivable diety that the accounts are indeed canceled and remain gone forever. I'd love to see the herd thin out a bit.
CCP will not go bankrupt over this decision. Their balance sheet will barely register a blip with this change. Cry all you emo tears you can muster, this is a good change to EVE.
Agreed. To me, all these people threatening to cancel their accounts are just making an excuse not to play the game. If you are going to stop playing Eve, this most definitely is not a good reason for it.
P.S. If anyone quits, can I have your stuff?
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Miriyaka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:07:00 -
[1124]
Originally by: Arithron Can someone explain, to all those that fail to understand, how having ghost training (and hence having players with multiple accounts they don't pay for but spend most of the time inactive) makes CCP any money at all?
Because some of us have many accounts and spending limits that we will have to lower to be subscribed 100% of the time, resulting in less money for CCP (personal example of 3x 75-80% for 225-240% vs 1-2x 100% for 100-200%).
Because lots of us also quit playing eve for various reasons for a few weeks to a month, and a long skill ending often brings us back when we wouldn't return (because losing training time is easily the most frustrating part of playing the game). This too gives CCP subscriptions that they wouldn't otherwise have.
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Calishere
Caldari The Space BorderLine
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:07:00 -
[1125]
Originally by: Ed Rush Man how long does it take to write a blog entry that describes the real reasons why you are about to do that... unless you're carefully writing alot of clarifying bullshit in detail.
this
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Gemini Pollux
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:07:00 -
[1126]
How long before inactive accounts expire?
I have been developing my 1 character for over 2 years. I have had an issue where I went to log on and soon realized my account subscription had expired. A warning so many days left...would be beneficial.
What is ghost training? Is that when you are training skills and you subscription lapses and the skill continues to train?
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Jocque
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:07:00 -
[1127]
I probibly missed something, but why is this bad? I pay for my account month to month payments and ill leave it training for 2 months sometimes while I pay the monthly fee and don't log in. Are people buying GTCs in game and then training accounts on that GTC and hence CCP never getting any money? Someone explain this to me.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:07:00 -
[1128]
I can't believe CCP ever allowed this in the first place.
The change (which I consider more of a fix) doesn't bother me in the least. You want to train? Pay for your account. What else would you expect? Now (as has been mentioned) they need to kill research point or any other ghost accumulation.
If that's too harsh for you, then see ya.
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Cosy Ceaon
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:09:00 -
[1129]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier I can't believe CCP ever allowed this in the first place.
The change (which I consider more of a fix) doesn't bother me in the least. You want to train? Pay for your account. What else would you expect? Now (as has been mentioned) they need to kill research point or any other ghost accumulation.
If that's too harsh for you, then see ya.
ok go and train capital ship to lvl 5 n00b the new RickRoll is here |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:09:00 -
[1130]
Originally by: Cynaux Aulte Going to keep this short and sweet, you are going down a slippery slope here this is something which is a big selling point for EvE and encourages people to have multiple accounts, this will just make people sell those accounts or just stop playing in that way altogether, I currently have various characters I do for different things for my alliance and I will just cancel all of them apart from my "fun" character (IE character that can fly nanohacs etc) and sell the rest.
If characters did not train when you lapsed I would have quit long ago, and in fact this is making that decision a lot easier.
Question - what real good do the multiple accounts do CCP if they aren't being paid for much of the time? I don't think this is going to have anywhere near the impact on most people who have multiples. I know I have 2, am going to grab a third, and this will do nothing at all to change that. Why? Because each of my alts will be actively training for specific skills, most of which have a max training time of 19 days, and that only if I feel like veering away from the practical. Hard for me to use my manufacturing alt if he's unsub'd, now, isn't it? I also think that many who have multiple accounts play more than one at a time (seen it a lot) - they won't be affected, either. So...who are these people who have multiple accounts to train characters, and have skills so long that ghost training is effective at all? Hmmm?
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Sarin Adler
Caldari Dark Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:10:00 -
[1131]
The Horror, you gotta be kiddin CCP right? ---
Alts, the root of all evil. |
Luxenvario
Gallente ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:10:00 -
[1132]
You know, the first thing my buddy said when he got back from basic training was "Hey BS V just finished.." - I had changed it for him right before his account ran out. Next thing I saw was a credit card.
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xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:11:00 -
[1133]
lets explain it to some clever pp's who don't understand
if i want to play game and get exp wen i'm online i play Lineage 2/WoW/GuildWars(very good game actualy)
In eve if you short on time you can set up loong skill (Fighters lvl 5/ Carrier lvl 5) and just leave it.. coz if i come back i still have same SP as frien of me gaming 23/7 No Pain - No Gain |
Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:11:00 -
[1134]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 13/10/2008 22:11:15
Quote: We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
Hah!
When the 30 and 90 day time codes were eliminated for the 60-day time codes, the CSM became a way for the player community to identify and demand answers for a backdoor elevation of the expenses. The community was floored when CCP's excuse was initially that we were too stupid to understand the difference between 30 and 90.
Eventually CCP came clean about their motivation to increase time code prices by about 33%, and that the motivation was to ultimately switch us to credit card subscriptions, where we could actually pay less than the time codes worked out to. Like a faithful little lemming who wanted to shoot things, I followed suite, did the needful, and continued playing.
But CCP, you're playing games with us again. You're taking the soil from garden which we use to grow our alt accounts - where many power gamers use to cultivate capital ship, miner, and specialized-role alts, and ****ing in it. For now it's easy to say that the additional nitrogen in the medium will be cheaper for you to provide, but it's more likely to stunt our growth, and if left in for too long those accounts will simply parish, leaving the garden infertile. It's no coincidence that this happens following a second push for the power of Two, and with two days notice.
It took an act of the Mickey Mouse Club (because really - that's all teh CSM is these days) to finally get CCP to appeal for our pity with the time code change, and we gave it to you - The overwhelming majority of the community swarmed out to be your apologists. But this latest move, coming only a few months after the fact, is shortsighted and extremely inconsiderate at best.
No single player has ever made this request, either to the CSM, or on the forums - at least not the a capacity where this has gained traction. If CCP wants to continue a charade of pretending that this is what the community wanted, nothing will stop you; ironically we in the community will know you're lying to us. Denial about these actions by saying they are anything but a way of keeping alts latched on a little longer should be discarded as anything but honesty.
Short version: You suck for this, and for thinking that we're stupid for it.
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Lethreas Lashnda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:11:00 -
[1135]
CCP will kill this game :(( i am really sad because of this. but if they continue this liar management like now they will be do that :/ and we have to move to star trek online or whateva else :/
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Rotnac
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:11:00 -
[1136]
Originally by: Jocque I probibly missed something, but why is this bad? I pay for my account month to month payments and ill leave it training for 2 months sometimes while I pay the monthly fee and don't log in. Are people buying GTCs in game and then training accounts on that GTC and hence CCP never getting any money? Someone explain this to me.
People pay (in some fashion) for a few months and train skills, and then let the account lapse while a level 5 skill trains. When it finishes, they pay for it again. So, say each year they pay for 8 months out of 12, while training all the while.
Those 8 months earn CCP money no matter what. If they paid with isk, then someone else paid CCP real money for the card. CCP shouldn't care if you pay with dollars/whatever or isk - CCP ultimately gets real money either way.
Since people will simply not have alts now, CCP loses those 8 months of subscription fees, a loss of revenue from before, hence making this change quite ******ed.
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Earthican
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:11:00 -
[1137]
Death to ISK sellers!
If they actually have to pay to train the skills to replace the accts that are deleted then how are they going to turn a profit off breaking the rules?
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:11:00 -
[1138]
CCP Greyscale: Speednerf over-killing the forums, DO SOMETHING! CCP Fallout: TO THE RESCUE!
Making Bigger Nerfs won't attract the attention away. And nerfing more won't enlarge your nerfbat.
Really, Really, REALLY one hell of a month, i wish they already removed drones to end the crap out of this account already...
_______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 |
Perpetually Driven
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:12:00 -
[1139]
Originally by: Izadi
Originally by: DigitalCommunist http://epicwords.net/images/ninjas.jpg
lawl
haha!
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Iam Widdershins
Minmatar Seeds of Prosperity
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:12:00 -
[1140]
Originally by: Nemeziskee Remove Ghost training okay, BUT give us skill queue.
Quoted for great justice. Contact: IM me at [email protected] for Google Talk or MSN, and IamWiddershins in AIM. The email gets checked like every 60 days. |
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Reangorette Bianie
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:13:00 -
[1141]
I didn't read all these pages, but I now see how everyone in 0.0 space gets to fly those super ships with kick --- skills. Start training for the skill @ lvl. 4,5 one day before your account expires then re-sub 2 months later. Sweet. Wonder how this will effect those 0.0 battles. Maybe we'll see some tactics now.
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:13:00 -
[1142]
Originally by: Sanadis
Originally by: Praesus Lecti I quite doubt that the number of people who are declaring that they are canceling additional accounts will actually do so. But I really hope they do...I prayto every conceivable diety that the accounts are indeed canceled and remain gone forever. I'd love to see the herd thin out a bit.
CCP will not go bankrupt over this decision. Their balance sheet will barely register a blip with this change. Cry all you emo tears you can muster, this is a good change to EVE.
Agreed. To me, all these people threatening to cancel their accounts are just making an excuse not to play the game. If you are going to stop playing Eve, this most definitely is not a good reason for it.
P.S. If anyone quits, can I have your stuff?
no u can't
we will all sell our sh*t on ebay to make some hard cash profit out of this mess... If CCP does it why shouldn't we do the same?
If you think this was unbalanced how come we could not hear you whine all the time?
Yeah AFK has so many advantages ... like not being able to log on... like not being able to ret or to run missions... and oh... not being able to pvp... yeah afk has soooo many advantages...
/sarcasm off ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Cribba Sebiestor
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:13:00 -
[1143]
I have 2 account both subscribed and i haven't ever ghosted my account or even considered ghosting, if i want a break then I'll stop for a day or two but wouldn't dream of unsubscribing. The Skill Queue is a good idea but that not gonna chang the skill for me cos no way you will implement that ever.
I play this gme cos i enjoy playing it, the guys who farm character's have never bothered me and never will, infact i enjoy hearing of the epic failures on occasion but you should have just grown a pair and said you are doing it because of the Global Financial Crisis...who has ever expended time and energy on a skill train other than running up the stairs when you here it say "Skill training completed", you are treatng us like tard's which we are clearly not, everyone who plays this game (with the exception of macros who don't "play the game") wouldn't have batted an eyelid so you just conjoured up a shit storm for no apparent reason other than not thinking things through.
Shame on You CCP
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Claudia Voltaire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:14:00 -
[1144]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Claudia Voltaire
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
So yes, it IS a good move! Its called fairness to those of us who pay 15 dollar a month!
Tbh i know a few people who just purchased wads of timecodes, sold them for isk and bought in game characters the equal of my own.
How fair is that!!!
You always have the subscription way! Which is the most common way of paying for a subscription! Either by visa or buying the GTC from a shop!
Me?
Sorry for not being more clear, iv'e actualy not missed a single payment with the visa card for over 5 years and 4 months.
I was pointing out there are those that havn't played or payed over that time that join the game, taking over characters that were either farmed or sold on from retiring players.
As pointed out, all that takes is purchasing timecodes from an electronic retailer, then passing them on for ingame currency.
Stoped caring about it long ago though tbh, but when you see people such as yourself talking about whats fair/unfair on the players and you have to earn and play for such a privilege of high skill pointed characters, well i could ignore (as i normaly do) or i can point out the obvious again, not that it makes a blind bit of difference
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Nina Korgan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:14:00 -
[1145]
Originally by: Luxenvario You know, the first thing my buddy said when he got back from basic training was "Hey BS V just finished.." - I had changed it for him right before his account ran out. Next thing I saw was a credit card.
Quoted for fscking truth.
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:16:00 -
[1146]
Well maybe I am one of the few who think that this change is needed for a long time. Still it does not mean that we need skill queue even more than before.
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:17:00 -
[1147]
Originally by: Nina Korgan
Originally by: Luxenvario You know, the first thing my buddy said when he got back from basic training was "Hey BS V just finished.." - I had changed it for him right before his account ran out. Next thing I saw was a credit card.
Quoted for fscking truth.
seconded ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:18:00 -
[1148]
A skill queue doesn't do anything to fix this. Anybody who says "oh hey this is okay as long as we can get a skill queue" is delusional. "Oh hey it's okay that you kicked me in the nuts because you gave me a hat." |
chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:18:00 -
[1149]
I've got to add, I also like this idea of changing something that was in effect for 5 years, meaning that all future players will not have the same advantage that we've all had for so long. This time, it's not an advantage of some single individuals (like tech2 BPOs), it's an advantage of all players older than 2008.10.15 - great! How do you intend to balance that?
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:18:00 -
[1150]
Originally by: Rotnac
Originally by: Jocque I probibly missed something, but why is this bad? I pay for my account month to month payments and ill leave it training for 2 months sometimes while I pay the monthly fee and don't log in. Are people buying GTCs in game and then training accounts on that GTC and hence CCP never getting any money? Someone explain this to me.
People pay (in some fashion) for a few months and train skills, and then let the account lapse while a level 5 skill trains. When it finishes, they pay for it again. So, say each year they pay for 8 months out of 12, while training all the while.
Those 8 months earn CCP money no matter what. If they paid with isk, then someone else paid CCP real money for the card. CCP shouldn't care if you pay with dollars/whatever or isk - CCP ultimately gets real money either way.
Since people will simply not have alts now, CCP loses those 8 months of subscription fees, a loss of revenue from before, hence making this change quite ******ed.
Just to extend the point, a credit card holder actually saves a lot of money - My six month subscription works out to US$11.95/month! A 60 day tome code is US$34.99 or so. In other words, a time code user is paying $17.50/month, give or take, or more than I pay.
If they already pay bi-monthly, leaving 2-4 months out of the year, time code users, who pay more, are going to be hit hardest regardless.
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:18:00 -
[1151]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist http://epicwords.net/images/ninjas.jpg
Nerf ghost training! |
Lockefox
Caldari Darkmatter Conglomerate Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:18:00 -
[1152]
Though I am the last to ever wave a "I'll quit" flag, this has me scared.
There have been some very valid (and I believe scary) posts in the previous pages about quitting. The thing I see is when people quit EVE, it will be for good. Also, this will continue to disparage between the top and bottom of players rather than even it out.
The argument in question is of course Battleship 5. Who in their right mind wants to wait around for the 30 days if they are just trying to get that skill done? I personally have used things like vacations and busy school times to cancel my sub and grind through these skills.
I fear two things from this announcement. 1) Those who cancel their subs will not be returning 2) The gap between the haves and the have-nots will just grow larger.
I pray that this feature will not be turned off for the health of the game in the long term, and that the short term gains of subscription dollars.
~Lockefox PS: Coming into peak gaming season, don't you guys want to bolster your numbers? It seems like shooting yourself in the foot to pull this going into Christmas season.
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Borini
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:19:00 -
[1153]
tbh i don't to much with the change but make it so that the first two days after payments stop you continue the skilling. It is kind of hard on people that for some reason like banks making screwups etc you stop the skilling. Normaly problems like that are solved in a few days. And i don't think you should punish players for other peoples screw ups.
All in all bad publicity for CCP
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Akima Jarka
Caldari Universalis Imperium
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:21:00 -
[1154]
While I have been reading these forum's for years now I very rarely post (less than 10 total i think).
But this I just cannot sit by and say nothing.
Ghost training is something that I've always thought as a feature of Eve. When talking to people about Eve and trying to get them to try it out I would tell them about the skill system and how you could progress at a good rate even if you can't find much time to play. I would then tell them that if you need to take a break from the game, that as skill set will continue to train. The friends that I have gotten in to Eve all find this a useful feature. An example is a friend who is in the National Guard when he has to go for his 'one month of the year' training. Another example is myself where during the last month of classes i turn my account off so that I can focus on finishing up projects and study for finals. This keeps the temptation to play Eve during that month down.
So, yes Ghost Training is not perfect. But Even isn't a perfect game. And by taking it out I believe it will be doing more harm than good.
For the most part I always understand and even support the decisions and nerfs that CCP makes, but this one I do not.
my $.02
--- "It does the sheep no good to preach the goodness of a diet of grass, if the wolves are of a different mind." - Nathan Rahl |
Nevada Tan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:21:00 -
[1155]
Hey guys I went and checked - Jumpgate Evolution is launching in Q1 next year.
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I have done a bad thing. |
Hun Jakuza
Naughty By Nature
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:22:00 -
[1156]
Oh no, this is the player fault said, the Sensei. :) No this is the CCP fault too. Why sold for the european subscribers 15 euro (20,5$) the game ? CCP idea was the another prices. The players should be fixing CCP bad choice and buy GTC for $ ?
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Maconha
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:22:00 -
[1157]
Edited by: Maconha on 13/10/2008 22:23:19 go go CCP
i support you
ending the gost training is an great idea
next i would end with the 60 day ETC and put 364 day ETC at 500$
and subscription at 50$ a month
go go completly agree with all
/sarcasm off
really hopping to see what came next... don¦t remember ever to see 3 posts in one thread every minute...
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Damoxenos
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:22:00 -
[1158]
OK i can see both sides to this, first yeah it will be bad for CCP's wallet, who is to say they dont know that?
Gmaeplay balance issue is real but not as direct as you may think, it will reduce the number accounts an individual will have, which is right, and make the individaul charcter better as was meant to be, rather than people multitasking with multiple accounts, this should make it more likey that people join corps and people can and will specialize in things that most now use 'alts' for..
Also if the game balance is total BS, and it is just a money grab, it is a shame that CCP felt it had to do this to loyal players, many if the truth was told would be more willing to accept this change, after all CCP is a business, maybe they just need the short term gain in $$$
But I can see the bad point, people with multiple characters whether 'ghost training' or not still add to CCP's wallet as these accounts are not pernamently active..
What would be better imo is somesort of limit on how long or often you can 'ghost train' in a calendar year, this would work for both the above...
Also chinese isk farmers use the 'ghost training' feature, its part of the problem with the farmers, act it out and they should be reduced, but hurting the core players is a bad move....
Also it is imperative that CCP adds something that shows just how long you have till your sub ends, and email in last 7-14 days, or even just something on the client itself, many do not use this site until sub time comes...
Seriously CCP, whatever your reasoning this is bad....
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:22:00 -
[1159]
Could've changed it to a url instead of deleting my post, mods >_<
GHOST TRAINING
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:22:00 -
[1160]
From my viewpoint this means same players but less accounts.So, what's the point? making playerbase less happy? ________________________________________
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Calishere
Caldari The Space BorderLine
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:23:00 -
[1161]
Originally by: Nina Korgan
Originally by: Luxenvario You know, the first thing my buddy said when he got back from basic training was "Hey BS V just finished.." - I had changed it for him right before his account ran out. Next thing I saw was a credit card.
Quoted for fscking truth.
thats me in a few days actually ... this comes at a fvked up time lol, woot 2 months of no skills training woot ?
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Titus Vulso
Amarr Minbari Research Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:23:00 -
[1162]
Stick to your guns CCP, don't be pressured by the whiners. Needs to be applied to research points also btw.
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Adaera
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:24:00 -
[1163]
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Nina Korgan
Originally by: Luxenvario You know, the first thing my buddy said when he got back from basic training was "Hey BS V just finished.." - I had changed it for him right before his account ran out. Next thing I saw was a credit card.
Quoted for fscking truth.
seconded
Thirded. Appalling change, and has really soiled my opinion of CCP. Resubbing to WoW for a bit is quite tempting right now.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:24:00 -
[1164]
Originally by: xOmGx lets explain it to some clever pp's who don't understand
if i want to play game and get exp wen i'm online i play Lineage 2/WoW/GuildWars(very good game actualy)
In eve if you short on time you can set up loong skill (Fighters lvl 5/ Carrier lvl 5) and just leave it.. coz if i come back i still have same SP as frien of me gaming 23/7
THis hasn't changed a bit. They just want you to pay while you let the skills gain and don't log in. Otherwise, let the account lapse and come back to exactly what you left, just like any other game.
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:24:00 -
[1165]
Originally by: Lockefox Though I am the last to ever wave a "I'll quit" flag, this has me scared.
There have been some very valid (and I believe scary) posts in the previous pages about quitting. The thing I see is when people quit EVE, it will be for good. Also, this will continue to disparage between the top and bottom of players rather than even it out.
The argument in question is of course Battleship 5. Who in their right mind wants to wait around for the 30 days if they are just trying to get that skill done? I personally have used things like vacations and busy school times to cancel my sub and grind through these skills.
I fear two things from this announcement. 1) Those who cancel their subs will not be returning 2) The gap between the haves and the have-nots will just grow larger.
I pray that this feature will not be turned off for the health of the game in the long term, and that the short term gains of subscription dollars.
~Lockefox PS: Coming into peak gaming season, don't you guys want to bolster your numbers? It seems like shooting yourself in the foot to pull this going into Christmas season.
I'm of teh same mindset as you. I'm not certain I'd actually quit, but this has me seriously considering it. But that aside, I can't feel good about suggesting Eve Online to any friends at this rate regardless, and so I won't. The SP system in place woulden't permit me to.
They'd be better to switch to the Experience Point system. At least that would fix the disparity of Supercap pilots (who can't rat in guaranteed safety) and the general population, which giving people a reason to play in groups.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:24:00 -
[1166]
Originally by: Jimer Lins Yes, how dare CCP insist that you pay the fee if you want to gain the benefits of something in the game?
Money-grubbing bastards, they shouldn't close loopholes that let people gain months' worth of training for a fraction of the cost of the time required. It's totally unethical for them to expect to be paid for using their game.
Actually, I'm hoping this change cuts through the fields of disposable alts on secondary accounts like a scythe through summer wheat.
And here is what I like about this plan.
There are too many people running 5-8 accounts using this dark training and RP to get an edge over those of us that pay for 3 accounts full time.
I take breaks from Eve but that doesn't stop me from canceling my CC now does it?
Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu |
Iog Krugar
The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:24:00 -
[1167]
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
Originally by: Ri****ulo I am a bit impartial here as i don't really do ghost training. I like playing too much to take a break.
That said, i suppose no one told CCP that training queues would be something the player base would like, but nothing really that important. After all, its been years without it anyway.
Training queue and ghost training cant exist together and as the CSM told CCP "We want training queues", i guess CCP went for it...
Unfortunately no one forethought this choice between skill queue training and ghost training. For the majority, the first is a luxury and the second a necessity.
In the end, CCP must be pretty ****ed with the CSM and this will make it more deaf to its recommendations in the future.
Result: Epic fail everyone, Epic fail CCP if they really go through with this.
both QFT. never been much of a fan of alts, altho i ended up paying 2 accounts myself. still, no tears on my part. actually, i think this change would be a lot more amusing if non-active accounts would not count towards the displayed corp/alliance sizes... --- i suposse everyone rolls around stations in pods |
Jorel
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:25:00 -
[1168]
Originally by: Titus Vulso Stick to your guns CCP, don't be pressured by the whiners. Needs to be applied to research points also btw.
Stop giving them more stupid ideas.
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Opertone
Caldari SIEGE. United Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:26:00 -
[1169]
i support this change, i really don't like people with 5 inactive accounts and more. They have extreme advantage over anyone else. I am paying for two accounts and can hardly play on one of them.
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Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:26:00 -
[1170]
This change is terrible.
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Fenrill Nerkata
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:26:00 -
[1171]
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
+1000
But only have 2 alts accounts, so only -1 account from me .
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:27:00 -
[1172]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Could've changed it to a url instead of deleting my post, mods >_<
GHOST TRAINING
plz make a 1920x1200 version of it too!! :D ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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spuge
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:28:00 -
[1173]
this change maybe give you one account to be active 24/7 but, it totally kill alt characters.
what is better to you a) one active account all time b) one active account + 1-3 randomly active alts
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Perpetually Driven
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:28:00 -
[1174]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Could've changed it to a url instead of deleting my post, mods >_<
GHOST TRAINING
Agreed, shitty mods tbfh.
Discussing moderation ohyes, punks!
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Roland TB303
Caldari Gebuehreneinzugszentrale
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:28:00 -
[1175]
Edited by: Roland TB303 on 13/10/2008 22:30:29
Originally by: chotaire Fictionary Dev Blog Post from ccp whoever:
Dear players, due to recent financing issues related to national problems we had to decide to disable ghost training for a limited amount of time. Due to our local banks unable to give us the necessary loans to expand our network and hire more programmers to implement the features you people desire, we saw no other chance doing so.
But please be asured this is only a temporary change, as we will rethink our priority list and reward everyone of you with a great new feature in return to be implemented before christmas:
Skill queueing goes in effect with the next major patch in the second week of December, at the same time ghost training will be back available to everyone. However skill queueing will only work if you have an active subscription.
We sincelery hope you understand this decision as we are forced to refinance immediate investments necessary to implement new features that CSM has requested to see available soon, as much as improving our network, hardware and database concept to cope with lag on fleet battles.
Furthermore, we will bring back 30 day time codes sometime next year. We hope this is a good compromise for all of us and we are looking forward to your feedback to discuss this matter before it goes into effect sometime soon.
Best Regards CCP whoever
CCP, if you did like that, I would say thumbs up. But most likely my reply is:
-4 accounts. Epic fail!
Which reminds me of mandatory german television fees that have to be paid even if the TV is not in use... Aufmachen, GEZ!
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Mad Mackem
E X O D U S
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:29:00 -
[1176]
What freaks me out is the amount of people that pay real money to play this game.
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Perpetually Driven
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:29:00 -
[1177]
http://epicwords.net/images/ninjas.jpg Yeah I'm asking for it.
* please refrain from posting images in the forums. Thanks - CCP Fallout
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Rotnac
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:29:00 -
[1178]
Originally by: Jorel
Originally by: Titus Vulso Stick to your guns CCP, don't be pressured by the whiners. Needs to be applied to research points also btw.
Stop giving them more stupid ideas.
Hey, if they're doing this, might as well go all the way! RPs, buy/sell orders, everything goes when the account lapses. In fact, just delete the whole thing the moment its time runs out! All these people unfairly using CCP's storage space for their unsubbed accounts makes me sick!
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:29:00 -
[1179]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon ok go and train capital ship to lvl 5 n00b
While training up cap ships (and other long hauls) I (get ready for a radical idea) continued to actually PLAY THE GAME. You know, like fly around and shoot stuff?
And who you calling a n00b anyways? Sure, this alt is only two years and a bit old but then again I have actually been playing all that time, not setting skills, letting my account expire and watching Dancing With The Stars for two months until it's cooked.
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Jesters Knight
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:29:00 -
[1180]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: xOmGx lets explain it to some clever pp's who don't understand
if i want to play game and get exp wen i'm online i play Lineage 2/WoW/GuildWars(very good game actualy)
In eve if you short on time you can set up loong skill (Fighters lvl 5/ Carrier lvl 5) and just leave it.. coz if i come back i still have same SP as frien of me gaming 23/7
THis hasn't changed a bit. They just want you to pay while you let the skills gain and don't log in. Otherwise, let the account lapse and come back to exactly what you left, just like any other game.
The point is i for one dont play any other game, i play EVE (well, played at this point)
the reason i started playing eve was because of "ghost training" as a poor college student you have to be very selective about what months you pay for your game and the only thinnk that kept me able to play with my friends when i re-activated was that my skill had finished when i came back
Highsec POS's Skip the wait and research in the fast lane |
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Eclair J
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:30:00 -
[1181]
I'm now being biomassed in prep of my owner merging his 3 PAID accounts into 2.
Won't someone please think of the alts!!
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:30:00 -
[1182]
Originally by: Mad Mackem What freaks me out is the amount of people that pay real money to play this game.
/raising hands...
shoot me! I pay for this! ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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hfo ohforf
Caldari Ramm's RDI
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:30:00 -
[1183]
lol @ picture :)
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boomshockalaka
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:31:00 -
[1184]
This is lame, Being able to train while i didnt use my account was the other reason i went out and got another account. So now i feel like i wasted 100 bucks for nothing
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:32:00 -
[1185]
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Could've changed it to a url instead of deleting my post, mods >_<
GHOST TRAINING
plz make a 1920x1200 version of it too!! :D
Its just a grey background. Open new photoshop file at 1920x1200, paste current image, fill in extra areas with flat color.
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Lethreas Lashnda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:32:00 -
[1186]
and had good feelng, your charachter still learn while u sleep or take another one thing in real life?
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Wod
Gallente Fallen Pandas
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:32:00 -
[1187]
I haven't "ghost trained" in what, a year I think. And I think it's a feature that really makes EVE, EVE. I will miss it but that's it. No emo rage quit or anything but you just lost my respect. I hope this Dev blog will explain thing in detail why this was a necessary move from your behalf.
-1 respect CCP - I like cookies |
Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:32:00 -
[1188]
Quote: While training up cap ships (and other long hauls) I (get ready for a radical idea) continued to actually PLAY THE GAME.
QFT
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:32:00 -
[1189]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth As I've been saying for the longest time, if I weren't paying for this awful game with isk, I would have quit long ago. You're making it easier and easier for me to find something better to do with my hobby time.
1st quote: I need to use my freetime more wisely, too. And this change will only hasten my exit.
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R0ni
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:33:00 -
[1190]
So do you guys expect to make more money with everyone leaving the game now? you guys wouldnt happen to be with the banks on this one right?? poor choices :( shame on you guys
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Raging Lissa
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:34:00 -
[1191]
This is a terrible idea that will not have the effect that you intend. I'd go into the economics of the situation but it has already been explained many times in this very thread and will be lost in the outcry anyway.
"This practice upsets the balance of the game"
Here's hoping you can come up with something much more substantive than this idiotic kind of catch-all reasoning.
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Elrinarie
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:34:00 -
[1192]
to me this sounds like it is only a money move.
really, I'm sure no one really cares if an account was active during the entire time they were skill training.
It would be one thing if you guys put in a way to queue up skills, but honestly this is by far the worst excuse for a change and you aren't really fooling anyone with what the real motive is.
I didn't read through all of the pages, but I haven't found a single person think that this was a good idea, especially with how long it takes to train so many of these level 5 skills.
lots of quitting for good or at least removing extra accounts.
seems like a pretty bad decision honestly --------------------- Creator of another Mining Calculator |
Pastor Blue
Amarr Blades Of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:35:00 -
[1193]
Boy, I've read so many mails I'll go to bed dreaming of it tonight I reckon
Anyway, looks like the vote is definitely against you CCP ... I think you owe it to us to truthfully respond in detail so that we can understand why it is being implemented (and at such short notice too I might add.)
To accurately gauge who is "for" and "against" this you ought to set up a poll?
Training a character for which you are not paying doesn't make any sense to me personally, but it never bothered me in the slightest though I can see the benefits for people who, for RL reasons, have to take a break.
I think you should have given more notice and I also think you should give us either a very detailed and truthful reasoning and/or a live chat.
Fly safe all :)
Don't squat with your spurs on. |
Ithnolin
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:35:00 -
[1194]
Originally by: Cory Trevor
Originally by: Tizoca So - if you take a 'subscription break' in the future, you'll come back to a character in the exact place you left it, just like any other game. So sad. QQ
No, without the ghost training the 'subscription break' will become 'quitting the game and playing something else' instead. Being able to come back to new skills and new ships to fly because of it is one of the big reasons people resub in the first place.
Cause that Level 5 BS skill helps you fly sooooo many more ships and do sooooo many more things than BS 4. Wonderful logic there.
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TYCONDEROGA
Amarr EMPERIAL ARMOR
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:36:00 -
[1195]
Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards. He who defends Everything, Defends Nothing! |
Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:37:00 -
[1196]
Originally by: Ithnolin
Cause that Level 5 BS skill helps you fly sooooo many more ships and do sooooo many more things than BS 4. Wonderful logic there.
It opens up capital ships, which are significant.
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Sharitam Kerank
Caldari Copia International Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:37:00 -
[1197]
I've been playing for a long time(4+ years) and my last break(of 3 months) was 2+ years ago, now feeling the burn again have just decided I need a break, so set training of cap ships 5, cancelled my subs and worked out I need to decide if I want to come back on Dec 12th and therefore set an appropriate reminder on my phone for then. Now I am forced to decide if I want to come back on Wednesday, 48 hours after my subs run out, instead of the incentive on Dec 12 of having something cool to come back to, I have nothing...
Seems you are looking for a small short term increase in subs here CCP instead of looking at the longer term... You sure you ran the numbers right on this one? Sounds off to me.
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xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:37:00 -
[1198]
if i want fees=exp on my nec all time i'd choosed other game 2 years ago... No Pain - No Gain |
Ms Zallinger
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:38:00 -
[1199]
Guess I won't be letting my acount go inactive to train so I could buy items/stuff from the eve store.
Sorry CCP
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Peanorue
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 22:38:00 -
[1200]
Might have been prudent to have Dev Blog about said issue ready before releasing any information?.
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Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 22:38:00 -
[1201]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 13/10/2008 22:53:36
I don't understand why people accept to remove the Ghosting Training if they have Training Queue.
Ghosting must remain, but Training Queue must be implemented (only for active players of course). Maybe a time limit for Ghosting can be acceptable (30 days before stop training ?).
In fact, I don't understand how remove Ghosting Training can be considered as "fair".
Same if in a logical view, it is, it is required to see further the logic, and do a financial and psychological approach.
It is obvious that retire the Ghosting will only advantage wealthy players, and will expand the skill separation between inactive and veteran players, so generate more frustration about Eve Online, so less players etc... It make training more harder to be done...
We still speak about a "game" who require more time than any other MMORPGs to be really efficient. The Ghosting add something that the competitors don't have, and make Eve unique. ____
14/20 Revelations : Desyncs... 11/20 Trinity : BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs 10/20 1.1 : [...] + EXP shield nerf 07/20 ½ Not a single nerf + : What ?!? CCP is the real problem of EVE |
Jarek Naumen
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:39:00 -
[1202]
Any other wonderful changes planned?
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Vaedian GER
Excidium.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:39:00 -
[1203]
You don't want my money anymore? Alright, your choice.
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Phyridean
Lionsgate Ionic Dispersion Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:39:00 -
[1204]
Edited by: Phyridean on 13/10/2008 22:47:00 I have my main and two alts. I couldn't afford to sub the alts for the next month, so I'm dark training them. Planning on bringing them back having trained some nice skills when I can afford it in a couple months. This was a feature I had always found appealing about Eve. It doesn't require complete commitment. I suspect that's partially why it attracts the (comparatively) mature playerbase that it does. These people have real life stuff to deal with, and don't live in their mothers' basements playing all the time.
Introducing a necessity of commitment to the game will eliminate all but the most dedicated players (of which I am probably one) who CCP probably would have retained anyway. Even those players are likely to eliminate a majority of their alts.
I hope this decision gets reversed so my alts have something new to come back to when I can afford them. Training command ships 5 on an account I hardly use when it's subbed anyway isn't really worth the time.
Also, on the topic of dark training providing an unfair advantage: the advantage of being able to play (i.e. being subbed) is being able to work with your alliance, make isk, and, to put it bluntly play. Those people still train skills while subbed, so all the things you can't do while unsubbed are advantages those who subscribe already have over those who don't.
By the way, I think Certificates sound awesome.
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Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:39:00 -
[1205]
Originally by: Ithnolin
Originally by: Cory Trevor
Originally by: Tizoca So - if you take a 'subscription break' in the future, you'll come back to a character in the exact place you left it, just like any other game. So sad. QQ
No, without the ghost training the 'subscription break' will become 'quitting the game and playing something else' instead. Being able to come back to new skills and new ships to fly because of it is one of the big reasons people resub in the first place.
Cause that Level 5 BS skill helps you fly sooooo many more ships and do sooooo many more things than BS 4. Wonderful logic there.
It doesn't matter. The main thing is you have something new to return to. Not the same old crap you left. The whole thing is about perception. Few people actually use it but it being there and a posibillity means something to a lot more people. And as mentioned alt payed for 3 months out of 6 is still 3 months payed more than zero.
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Brugar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:39:00 -
[1206]
About ****ing time!!!
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Laice
Caldari Judicial Blade Novus Aevum
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:40:00 -
[1207]
this is made of fail.
Surely CCP you can see that people are more likely to reactivate their accounts if they know they are coming back to a time-epic shiny level V?
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Neutral Wanderer
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:40:00 -
[1208]
-1 account.
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Snakebloke
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:40:00 -
[1209]
Originally by: slip66 :/ this is going to keep people who takes breaks from returning...
Look if i pay for all my accounts (5 btw) with GTCs, it can be a pain to get it organised, especially if i am away etc. Also, if something pops up in real life with money and i cant keep an account going (which i could do if youd allow direct debits in the uk for fraks sake), then itd be nice if i could still train a long skill that will finish when i get more money.
I dont see how this is affecting players of eve at all because 90% of your player base will at some point partake in ghost training. Its a load of old ********* tbh and just another way of money spinning. If this is something to do with the collapes of Landsbanki or whatever bank CCP used then fine, explain so and maybe it would make it more acceptable, but to blatantly lie about it benefiting the player base is outlandish at best.
I hope this, along with that awful carrier nerf idea, gets resigned to the waste bin that is CCP headquarters. If it does not, then i fear that i will reduce my number of accounts to compensate for any financial difficulties that may occur....
/signed for banning of this idea
Much Lov, Snake
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arqueturus
Minmatar StateCorp
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:41:00 -
[1210]
I stumbled accross 'ghost training' back in march 2004 - all my friends had quit and I was a bit sick myself. I took a month long break and then logged back in full of renewed energy to find Caldari Cruiser V had 2 days to go. I was pretty surprised.
I've played solidly since then to early spring this year when I was feeling a little burnt again and took a break over summer for 2 months - leaving a capital ship V skill training - 54 days.
I was planning a break from my second acount whilst training a 40 day skill in the next few days as the sub runs out on the 20th so this is directly affecting me. I'll now sell that second character instead as I don;t have the time to make it a valid expense anymore.
The first 2 paragraphs are why ghost training is great and one of things I've always touted as a forward thinking feature of Eve. Shame.
The final irony is that I posted in a comments thread about the news of microtransactions in WoW about CCP doesn't do stupid stuff like that about an hour and a half before finding out about this.
I'm really disapointed in CCP with this news and I can't help it's going to cost them alot of money in the long run.
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Sarin Adler
Caldari Dark Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:41:00 -
[1211]
Originally by: Una D And as mentioned alt payed for 3 months out of 6 is still 3 months payed more than zero.
Yes, but at CCP's HQ there must be some mathematical genious which found 3<0, right... ---
Alts, the root of all evil. |
Vin Fell
DARKFELL EXCURSIONS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:41:00 -
[1212]
This is crap CCP. It's not about Balance, and likely more about your wallet. I hope it completely back-fires on your stupid arses and you reverse this. Or at least give us dual-skill-training.
It isn't fair to new players and takes away some of the shine in your game. I realize not everyone even knew about ghost-Training before today, however it's still a completely un-needed change.
Also the lack of a CCP/dev response after 45pages is total shit.
WTF
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Capt Butters
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:41:00 -
[1213]
i think it is a bad idea and there are pleanty otherreal issues you could fix
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xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:41:00 -
[1214]
Quote: Any other wonderful changes planned?
Next one i think - Kill 10 BattleShips (NPC) and het a 1k sp boos on your current skill!!!
Finish a Blokade (lvl4) and get 10k SP!!! No Pain - No Gain |
Worgorg Ashwielder
A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:42:00 -
[1215]
It is all so clear now, Iceland banking crisis, need every penny atm to pay the bar bill, they are not worried about the future |
Seeker Ash
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:42:00 -
[1216]
Originally by: Yakumo Smith I pay for my accounts, I don't shadow train, I don't care that people do it, but twice now you've made me doubt that you'll be around in 3 years time and now i'm forced to consider if playing for another 2 years in this game is worth my while should it disappear down the pan. Your making me think "am I going to regret spending 2 years planning to be left with nothing?"
Congrats CCP Fallout, I really hope someone gave you that script to post as if not you've pretty much destroyed my faith in you guys being around long term.
An exceptionally good point. I've believed that Eve would always be there, and develop as computer power will, and what grand things would come of that. I've thought that the day would come when we could leave our ships and go on adventures on all of the many thousands of planets; that Eve would continue to push against the limits of technology and imagination and let us believe that there are amazing things in this world.
But now all I can think of is will the game still run five years from now? Or two years? It seems like an overreaction to a small disappointment, but just the announcment of planning this possible change is indicating a game in decay. "Already the world seems a little less bright", as it were.
_________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues." |
Ithnolin
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:43:00 -
[1217]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 13/10/2008 22:02:04 How many alt have the EVE ? 10k ? One alt need for ghost training 6x60 day subscription = 6x35$ or euro = 210$ or euro in one year. 10k alt = 2,100,000,00$ loss/year dear CCP Ok not 2,1m, just 2.1m summ of 80-90% because 10-20% alt will still there in game.
Get an English grammer guide. If they are paying 6X60 day subscriptions, hence paying for a full year, then they won't be affected by this change. It would only be if they were paying 3X60 subscriptions with 3x60 breaks unpaid, while still skilling up, that they have any effect place on them. So, their loses would be in the neighborhood of less than 1 mil a year, AT MOST. Chances are, more than 90% of these whiners will still be playing 3 months from now.
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Todoshi
Caldari Caldari Logistics and Supplies
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:44:00 -
[1218]
Forgive me for being stupid but where does it say a skill que is going to come any time soon?
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Snakebloke
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:44:00 -
[1219]
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards.
Just for your information that is an immature, naieve view of the world that we live in and i hope that you reach puberty sooner than later. I understand that CCP wont like what i just said but i dont care, some people have children, reesponsibilities or $800 credit card bills for Fanfest '08 (woot cant wait :D) so saying such a thing is simply ign'ant
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:44:00 -
[1220]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
The dishonesty in this statement, with it's assumption that we're stupid enough to believe that "this is for our own good", is actually worse than the change itself. And that's pretty bad.
Now I'm idly curious how many subs this will cost.
Anyone care to bet that subscription figure suddenly stop appearing in the near future too...?
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Aikhiko Somotho
Caldari Imperium Galactica
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:44:00 -
[1221]
I remember, when I stopped playing eve online, sooner or later my skill training stopped, yet I am back. I am back and playing. When you see my characters age, you would think, I should have lots of SPs, but that isn't the case. Yet others enjoy SPs from the time they haven't paid a cent. Is it fair? No. Now I have 3 accounts.
CCP has 3 main choices:
Add the missing SP to accounts like my accounts. Sadly lots of people would sent their accounts online. Which isn't a good case. Remove ghost training. Or accept the difference.
You can guess why the first choice would be a problem. A lot of people would start an account, leave it for a year, and do skill training after.
About the 2nd and 3rd option: It is a matter of preference. Can you get any amount of hard core and experience Eve players on the long run? They enjoy having 5 or more accounts, but these accounts are subscribed for half of the time. Can you get many many new players? These people enjoy when they don't have to compete with people who can use lots of accounts, some of them are inactive, to gain advantage in RPs, Skill points, Sell orders, Buy orders, etc. without spending a cent.
If you don't keep all those accounts you don't have a such huge advantage over new and casual players, and with time the gap between veterans and new players became more and more wide. They had a chance to decide: Stop ghost training to reduce the gap, or use another trick to make this difference less important, or try to wait.
Running Eve Online isn't cheaper than running any other game, but so far, it was far cheaper for us, players. If CCP has to raise the price, for many reasons, and need to focus on getting new players in the game, I can understand and accept that.
BUT, in all honesty, the question is: a lot of people will see their game is "ruined" by this, and some advantages of the game is vanished thanks to it. I think if long term subscription plans, ability to use mobile devices, web, etc. for skill changing, market use, etc would be introduced, and the rate of skill training would get increased the game would be better.
I would suggest 1.5 times multiplier for skill training speed, a possible system for skill changes usable from mobile devices, and an ability to place orders, use industry from mobile devices as compensation.
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Matuk Jela
Excidium.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:46:00 -
[1222]
Time to play some AoC again ... k thx ... bye.
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Charly Quickfire
Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:46:00 -
[1223]
Edited by: Charly Quickfire on 13/10/2008 22:49:13 Well, let's see: - introducing 60 days GTCs and deleting all other GTC options with crap argument, done - deleting a unique selling point of EVE with crap argument, done
Are these actions supported by CCP's CEO or did the financial guys just get his approval by showing some nice graph about increasing profit? (that's what I would have done, nice powerpoint slides + keywords rock!)
Unfortunately only time will tell what consequences this will have for EVE. Will be interesting if character prices will stay the same or increase or decrease
But in my little world, CCP will get less money from me, so, bad idea from where I am standing. Or actually good idea, should be spending less money for EVE anyway.
Ninja-edit: What's next? Disabling skilltraining while being not logged into the game? Because that's a disadvantage vs those that can play/stay logged in 23/7? |
Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:46:00 -
[1224]
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
I have never seen anyone whine about this. Ever. This is pathetic.
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RU Sirius
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:46:00 -
[1225]
I can totally see why CCP are doing this from an economic angle but not a game balance angle.
We're at the start of an economic recession, we've just had global collapse of the money market and Iceland almost nearly went bankrupt and their currency is severely damaged (although it's bounced back a little in the last week due to shutting down the Icelandic stock exchange and refusing to trade in isk). Of course they need to increase their profits but this is not about CCP being greedy but about CCP being able to survive in the medium term. So stop fu*king whining or you won't have any game to whine about.
From a game balance point of view? well that excuse is pure p**s.
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xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:46:00 -
[1226]
pp's it's about Principles you can't take away somesing wat has been 5 year there a feature of a game...
It's like Coca-COla change colour it's can't be done... No Pain - No Gain |
Harasies
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:46:00 -
[1227]
i want all the SP that people have gained up to now by ghost training to be taken away from them
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:46:00 -
[1228]
Originally by: Jesters Knight
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: xOmGx lets explain it to some clever pp's who don't understand
if i want to play game and get exp wen i'm online i play Lineage 2/WoW/GuildWars(very good game actualy)
In eve if you short on time you can set up loong skill (Fighters lvl 5/ Carrier lvl 5) and just leave it.. coz if i come back i still have same SP as frien of me gaming 23/7
THis hasn't changed a bit. They just want you to pay while you let the skills gain and don't log in. Otherwise, let the account lapse and come back to exactly what you left, just like any other game.
The point is i for one dont play any other game, i play EVE (well, played at this point)
the reason i started playing eve was because of "ghost training" as a poor college student you have to be very selective about what months you pay for your game and the only thinnk that kept me able to play with my friends when i re-activated was that my skill had finished when i came back
If you really think this is true, and were really training 30+ day skills, then you really have a limited understanding of how the game works. When I started, I was able to play with people that had been playing for more than a year, and still make a real contribution, inside of two months. I wasn't on the front line or getting close to their DPS right away, but I was contributing and making my presence felt.
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Cooper Wylde
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:47:00 -
[1229]
It's clear you don't care, but say good by to $50 in fees you were just about to get on three accounts.
Your skill methodology now looks like horseshit. Pay us for months on end just to fly a ship. No reward to doing anything other than money which you could just buy for $30 anyway.
When my last three acounts run out of game time, I'm done. You went from a happy customer who paid real cash money - not isk - to keep six accounts active. I'm going to 0.
And screw you people who say 'it's just $14.95' or whatever. For me it's the waste of time.
To be able to mine in an exhumer I have to wait over 45d of 'long ass skills' just to do it.
If your'e going to do this, you need a way for me to waste ISK and buy insta trains in the form of implants or something. But just cutting me off at the knees with no warning = no sale.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:47:00 -
[1230]
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards.
Hope you've still got a job next month mate. Because I don't think many people can say for sure that they will.
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Ithnolin
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:47:00 -
[1231]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon
Originally by: Catherine Frasier I can't believe CCP ever allowed this in the first place.
The change (which I consider more of a fix) doesn't bother me in the least. You want to train? Pay for your account. What else would you expect? Now (as has been mentioned) they need to kill research point or any other ghost accumulation.
If that's too harsh for you, then see ya.
ok go and train capital ship to lvl 5 n00b
Been there, done that. And I paid for the entire subscription time.
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Speak Silence
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:47:00 -
[1232]
I believe this is my first post on these forums since first joining eve over 3 years ago (correct me if i'm wrong).
I would like to thank CCP for this change as it has facilitated me in getting a new gym subscription starting next month when my account expires.
It's not enough that it takes forever to train for anything in this game you now have to make it harder? I mean seriousely did you even think of asking the player base what they thought about this?
Now time to put my vote in the ballot. I hope you guys have a way to count subscription cancellations, you have a couple coming your way.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:48:00 -
[1233]
1 possible solution; earn more isk while at work or asleep or out of the house to pay for the needed GTCs.
Macrehs and Google 4tw.
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ghengis khan2
Shad0wtech
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:48:00 -
[1234]
jumpgate evolution is on the way...( it will prob suck ass tho,.. only small ships,.. pirates of teh burning sea sucked ass also..:(...erm nothing else about,... )
...em/ hits renew tab [url] |
Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:48:00 -
[1235]
Originally by: Ithnolin Cause that Level 5 BS skill helps you fly sooooo many more ships and do sooooo many more things than BS 4. Wonderful logic there.
There is not only BS V in Eve Online.
Cruiser V make you nearly able to use HAS, more interresting but still require 20/25 days (don't remember exactly. BS V was 40 days...), and would be an annoying skill if I didn't do it while my 2nd break.
____
14/20 Revelations : Desyncs... 11/20 Trinity : BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs 10/20 1.1 : [...] + EXP shield nerf 07/20 ½ Not a single nerf + : What ?!? CCP is the real problem of EVE |
Laice
Caldari Judicial Blade Novus Aevum
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:48:00 -
[1236]
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: CCP Fallout This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
I have never seen anyone whine about this. Ever. This is pathetic.
i concur
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Yeknom Nam
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:49:00 -
[1237]
If ghost training is removed you might as well suspend all Buy/Sell orders and contracts. And virtually any other way a player can profit while the account is inactive. It would only be fair. How come trader-joe can continue making ISK, while the account is inactive, if I can't train while inactive.
This is my second account. Just bought it... while my main account is training... and now I feel f*cked by the seduction of the "Power of Two"... "deal."
This plus the horrible a$$holes I have dealt with in recent petitions makes me really want my $50 back. If I would have held out just six days or the announcement been that much sooner, this account wouldn't even exist... and I would have my hard earned $50 still.
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:49:00 -
[1238]
Originally by: Malcanis Hope you've still got a job next month mate. Because I don't think many people can say for sure that they will.
Very sadly true. As I said before, my roommate had to cancel his account because he was laid off. I'm luckily still employed, but with the economy the way it is, nobody can be certain anymore...
I think this is just adding salt to the wound of the economic crisis.
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TimGascoigne
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:50:00 -
[1239]
Edited by: TimGascoigne on 13/10/2008 22:50:14 omg its been 7 hours and we are on page 45!!!!!!!!
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Straygun
Caldari Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:51:00 -
[1240]
-1 account
Just because you are able to undock a ship doesn't mean you are able to fly it. |
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Venjanroe
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:51:00 -
[1241]
Great job letting people know in advance and Planning ahead, If you dont have skill queue releasing wednesday, You should start learning about Give and take.
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Lukas Devdan
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:52:00 -
[1242]
Start of this topic = CCP Fallout Reaction to this thread = irony
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Goose Hypocrisy
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:52:00 -
[1243]
hey ccp, get ****ed
-clp gotta update dat sig
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Vanessa Vasquez
Lyonesse. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:52:00 -
[1244]
Originally by: Jimer Lins I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
If this gets rid of even a fourth of the hordes of alts that dominate the landscape of this game, it'll be a HUGE improvement.
Well mate, what u'll see is exactly this. I'll not pay 2 accounts all the time. Not at all. Especially not, when the 2nd account is only for hauling and scouting purposes mainly. I agree, less alts is a good thing. I'm just upset cause i would never have made a second account without ghost training.
I certainly understand, that ghosttraining was kind of a neat, free gift from CCP. So i'm not complaining if it would be removed. BUT, not having a skill queue in return is ridiculous. Actually, i pick my skills depending on my login times rather than what i want to train.
And i might add, that i wouldn't pay a month when i knew i had little time to actually play, just for skilltraining. CCP removed the 30 and 90 day GTC, trying to force me to play and pay 2 months at a time if i want to pay via GTC. Now this. What will be next?
Seriously, you shooting your own knees with this in terms of $$$$. I'm fine with this if we would get that skillqueue everybody begs for, and less alts leading to less lag ect. But just trying to get people pay more if they wanna keep up in SP is crap.
I have one 30 GTC left. I'll use it one my main when i can estimate to have enough time to play. And if lagfest is still like this saturday in C-F with 4 node crashes (me spending a saturday evening 2 hours in front of a black screen saying "loggin in" and another 2 waiting for modules to activate or targetlock), u can be sure to have lost 5 accounts. My word on it
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Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:53:00 -
[1245]
Originally by: Sarl Massai
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: CCP Fallout
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
Is wishing you colorectal cancer against the rules? Because I really do.
Exagurate much?
No. Could not find anything worse on such a short notice. They want more money, fine. Insulting their customer base, not fine. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Nikla Uthaan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:53:00 -
[1246]
Quote:
the reason i started playing eve was because of "ghost training" as a poor college student you have to be very selective about what months you pay for your game
I don't buy that. I was a poor college student too until recently when I finished my degree, and all the "poor college students" I know never thought twice when they spend $30 on a carton of beer for the weekend once a month (or even once a fortnight) and a pack of smokes a week.
As someone else said, if the $15 a month in subs really is "life or death" for you then you really need to reconsider your lifestyle and financial planning.
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:53:00 -
[1247]
Originally by: CCP Fallout A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.
We understand that this is a hot topic amongst players, and request that you discuss this necessary change without breaking the forum rules.
thank you CCP i love you
Its about time CCP fixed this crap you should have to pay for the SP on you alts just like I do you cheap ***s go get a job. Hopefully this will get rid of the blobs a bit and make 1v1 combat more available as no one will have the recon L5 max skilled alts floating around and max skilled cap ship alts and stuff that cost them a 30 day GTC or 2 for all loads of 60 days skills.
---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
FalconBayerskt
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:54:00 -
[1248]
You WIN CCP. I will not renew my subscription anymore. Bye bye.
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Ishbuanium
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:54:00 -
[1249]
Originally by: Jimer Lins I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
I'd like to see the graph too, but for the opposite reason
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SkwisgaarSkwigelf
C.R.M Productions
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:54:00 -
[1250]
Originally by: Venjanroe Great job letting people know in advance and Planning ahead, If you dont have skill queue releasing wednesday, You should start learning about Give and take.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:55:00 -
[1251]
Ok, where to start?
This is a bad move. Not because I feel personally affected, but because it won't bring in more money. On the contrary, it will quite likely have negative (side)effects. It will make EVE less special. It may alienate a part of your 'veteran' playerbase. It may lead to players not coming back. In short, CCP fire your economics consultant!
Apart from that, yes I feel negatively affected. Why? Because it's a unique game feature that set EVE apart from other games. It's one of the reasons I play EVe and not something else. As has been mentioned, training a skill while unsubbed can be a major factor in returning to the game. It's also a 'cool this is possible?' moment when you first realize you can take some weeks off the game and won't totally fall behind. With 'ghost training' EVE will lose one argument in favour of it. No more, no less. I'll get over it. I'll probably keep playing, unless the min. subscription fee for a month of gametime won't hit the 15Ç mark for me. But it's one argument less to stick with the game.
Honestly, at the beginning I was playing both WoW and EVE. WoW made a bad move (lvl60 content devaluation through expansion), EVE made a good move (new free content and an upcomming free graphics update). Then I discovered EVE GTCs and EVE was suddenly cheaper than .. other games. At that point I switched completely to EVE. Now EVE is getting expensive again and loses some special features. Don't think the decision can't be reversed.
Sure, it probably wasn't an intended feature. But why do you suddenly feel the urge to change it? I mean, it doesn't really hurt you, if you think it through, completely.
If you want to reduce or even combat character farming, that's fine with me. I think character farming is bad for the game. As is the purchase of ISK through ebay or other 'shops'. But hurting yourself and many players in doing so (if that's the goal in the first place) might turn out to be a bad decision. Don't break a butterfly on a wheel.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
JPBee 001
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:55:00 -
[1252]
Is 46 pages enough to make you realize you made a mistake?
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Yaousien
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:55:00 -
[1253]
Honesty breeds trust.
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Princess Crocodile
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:56:00 -
[1254]
Edited by: Princess Crocodile on 13/10/2008 22:57:52 i think a lot of people are unhappy not about the change itself, but the way it's done. if CCP came out and said: "look guys, we are in lot of trouble financially and we really need to do this to stay afloat" or something along these lines more people would be supportive. but this sneaky balancing bs, i mean, really.
and yeah, in the long run it'll probably lose them more money than it brings now, so either they are really desperate or really clueless.
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Jocho
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:56:00 -
[1255]
Edited by: Jocho on 13/10/2008 22:58:02 Edited by: Jocho on 13/10/2008 22:57:04 Well I think this spells the end of Eve for me and many other casual players.
One reason I chose eve over all the other MMO games out there was because of the ghost training. It allowed me to take a break from the game and come back to a new skill, instead of burning out due to the repetition of the game. Because of this I felt Eve was a game which you didn't have to dedicate your life too/sacrifice your social life for, as well as not being too cash intensive. But now with the increase in price as well as the removal of ghost training, I can't see the point of playing. Instead of my acount going inactive for Battlecruiser 5, I can renew to pvp or grind/rat. As much as Pvp is enjoyable, personally I don't think it's worth the asking price, especially when I can play other games with better graphics, gameplay etc online that cost a one-off price and get some pvp action there. For free. When I want for as long as I want. Plus the real kick in the nuts is that I was going to start a hulk alt. Like hell that will be happening now.
I think EvE needs to be careful not to turn into another average MMO game which eats your cash and social life, whilst in return providing buggy, dated gameplay.
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Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:56:00 -
[1256]
Originally by: JPBee 001 Is 46 pages enough to make you realize you made a mistake?
Quotin' this.
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Robocop
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:57:00 -
[1257]
Credit Crunch !!
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:57:00 -
[1258]
Originally by: RU Sirius I can totally see why CCP are doing this from an economic angle but not a game balance angle.
We're at the start of an economic recession, we've just had global collapse of the money market and Iceland almost nearly went bankrupt and their currency is severely damaged (although it's bounced back a little in the last week due to shutting down the Icelandic stock exchange and refusing to trade in isk). Of course they need to increase their profits but this is not about CCP being greedy but about CCP being able to survive in the medium term. So stop fu*king whining or you won't have any game to whine about.
Um, no.
Their costs just tanked (they PAY in ISK, so their largest cost, wages, just went down 30%).
And when times are hard... and people are wondering if it's a good idea to have an MMO sub, then decreasing perceived value might not be the very ****ing cleverest thing to do, eh? Talk about a recession-friendly Unique Selling Point - can you imagine a better one? (Something which a game with an above average monthly sub cost badly needs tbh.) All I'm seeing is people saying, OK well, I'll just cut back and run my main account, rather than semi-subscribing an extra account or two. That's what I'm doing. If they think this will make everyone run every account full time, they're living in a dreamworld. At best, they'll see a brief surge of account transfer fees as people consolidate their accounts: they'll get $20 instead of $15 - once. Then nothing
After all it's not as if ghost training actually costs CCP a damb thing. An inactive account is few Mb of database space and a clock tick every couple of minutes: not much overhead there. The only loss is theoretical. And as soon as we're talking about a theoretical loss, we'd better make sure our theory is correct.
And finally, all this *******s I'm reading about character farming. First: show me the evidence. I don't believe it and I want to see some proof. Character farming is an awful way to make ISK or RL money. The return on investment is low and it takes vastly long than good old fashioned ISK farming.
Speaking of ISK farming, CCP have done nothing but boost this and nerf every tool players could use to fight it for the last 18 months. Obviously the deathly silence on the subject, compared to the deafening roar of complaint about ghost training has convinced CCP of the real villains here: it's customers.
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ghengis khan2
Shad0wtech
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:57:00 -
[1259]
hey maybe next move will be like in diablo, where if you dont play for a certain ammount of time they delete your account,,.... [url] |
P Lansdale
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:58:00 -
[1260]
Originally by: Princess Crocodile i think a lot of people are unhappy not about the change itself, but the way it's done. if CCP came out and said: "look guys, we are in lot of trouble financially and we really need to do this to stay afloat" or something along these lines more people would be supportive. but this sneaky balancing bs, i mean, really.
I could understand it if they came out with that. The fact is according to Fallout, it's nothing to do with that.
So either they are just being gits and taking it away because they can, or they are lying...lose lose either way.
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TYCONDEROGA
Amarr EMPERIAL ARMOR
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:59:00 -
[1261]
Originally by: Snakebloke
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards.
Just for your information that is an immature, naieve view of the world that we live in and i hope that you reach puberty sooner than later. I understand that CCP wont like what i just said but i dont care, some people have children, reesponsibilities or $800 credit card bills for Fanfest '08 (woot cant wait :D) so saying such a thing is simply ign'ant
So to summarize. naive, immature, and ignorant is the following:
Not living beyond ones means Paying for something you enjoy
And Mature is:
Paying 800$ for fanfest Not being able to afford the 15$ subscription fee for the game that you're going to fanfest to celebrate.
Nice Reasoning there. He who defends Everything, Defends Nothing! |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:59:00 -
[1262]
Originally by: ghengis khan2 hey maybe next move will be like in diablo, where if you dont play for a certain ammount of time they delete your account,,....
Yeah, that'd be about as smart is this idea.
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xOmGx
Warriors tribe Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:59:00 -
[1263]
Every one i think we need to do 1 thing...
Spase some $ and buy a can Vaseline foa a guy who introduced this crazzy idea, i realy getting feeling he may reealy need this one shortly.
And the real truth we may face some bug's SP looses if thay implant THIS, as usual we have problems every time CCP trying to fix working machine... No Pain - No Gain |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:59:00 -
[1264]
I have no strong opinions one way or the other, but if you're quitting I'd like your stuff. __________
Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:59:00 -
[1265]
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Jimer Lins I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
I'd like to see the graph too, but for the opposite reason
You'll see jack...
subscriptions (GTC) are of 2 months period... try and come back for the quaterly report...
1 month will show a rise in subs 2 month will show a fall of subs 3 month will plumet... ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Jauques Strap
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:00:00 -
[1266]
I would like to open with some obvious sarcasm.....Whoa! Wait a minute. You mean I have to pay RL money for this game?!?
You people are pathetic little whiners. Here I am paying RL money each month to simply play a game, but no, you couldn't leave it at that.
Okay, I can barely see the argument about being shipped over seas or laid up in the hospital. But you can't have a friend or family member log once every 1-2 months for you to click a couple buttons?!? I could write one small paragraph so a four-year-old could do it correctly. And if life sux that much for you perhaps you shouldn't be so freaking worried about a game and how many skill points any one of your 25 freaking accounts has accumulated or which one is due for some clicks.
I bet most of everyone here complaining never pays a single bit of RL money to play this stupid game! Like "TheAdj" who commented on the 1st page of this thread that GTC's are going to eventually cost 500m isk. All that says to me is "I make enough fake money in game to play for free and I'm going to whine about it." And while I'm at it, I'm going to take the advantage I have and exploit it by training a whole bunch of accounts. And oh yeah, not pay for any of them.
Well, screw you and the horse you rode in on pal. Join the club. Stand in line. Wait your turn. Sit down and shut the **** up! Who in the frak raised you? Wild goats?
You're going to have to now pick and choose who lives and who bites the digital bullet out of your precious little armada of characters you whiny little immature, sociopathic, brat. Or better yet, keep your little fake people and get a RL job, or one that pays better.
I personally can't wait for the culling to begin. Just like when CCP cleaned up space of all the abandoned cargo cans and ships that were just sitting there for years.
You're all cheating and the sad thing is you all know it and the worst part of it all is that you have the balls to post here and complain about your cheating.
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Kalius Prime
D10 Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:00:00 -
[1267]
LCIK CA NUT CCP........ Damn business models messing up shit. There has to be some dumb ass wanting to increase profits while ignoring loyal customers. CCP Fallout, great op to announce the change, since that is what it is a Quote: fallout
of loyal customers
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lacktale
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:00:00 -
[1268]
I for one, can see a benefit to this, with this can we expect skill stacking? I for one, always have my account paid up so this makes no difference to me. But since I can only assume that the reason skill stacking hasnÆt been added is because of this. Can we now expect it?
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:00:00 -
[1269]
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Jimer Lins I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
I'd like to see the graph too, but for the opposite reason
I'd like to see a 'pre 60 days GTC' graph and a 'post 60 days GTC' graph. Subscription numbers and income through subscriptions.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Ithnolin
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:00:00 -
[1270]
Originally by: Velda Chulai
Originally by: Ithnolin
Cause that Level 5 BS skill helps you fly sooooo many more ships and do sooooo many more things than BS 4. Wonderful logic there.
It opens up capital ships, which are significant.
HHEHEHEHEHEHE,
The difference between BS lvl 5 and Cap Ships is...oh... another 200 days of skill training. Sure, BS V lets you start training cap ships, but you still got another 200+ days to go to fully fit and fly one. So please, come up with a better excuse for your whining.
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Ostr0mir
Minmatar Never Knows Best
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:01:00 -
[1271]
Edited by: Ostr0mir on 13/10/2008 23:01:30 Yes, some of the players are addicted to the game, they will pay you anyway.
Some, but not all of them. Not even 15%. And, with the economic crisis getting worse, expensive online gaming (i.e. MMORPG subscription) will be a luxury item for most people, and it will be neglected due to the lack of money.
YOU WILL LOSE MORE THAN YOU WILL GAIN, CCP
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TYCONDEROGA
Amarr EMPERIAL ARMOR
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:01:00 -
[1272]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards.
Hope you've still got a job next month mate. Because I don't think many people can say for sure that they will.
Plenty of jobs to go around out here in Iraq, raping children and killing innocents.
pays good too. He who defends Everything, Defends Nothing! |
RDevz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:02:00 -
[1273]
This idea is awful. I'll probably rationalise my accounts down to two from four. I keep all of my accounts subscribed 75% of the time. I'll keep two accounts subscribed 100% of the time. Which means that I'll be paying $15 a month less.
Ho hum.
Originally by: Tappits Thank you CCP i love you
Its about time CCP fixed this crap you should have to pay for the SP on you alts just like I do you cheap ***s go get a job. Hopefully this will get rid of the blobs a bit and make 1v1 combat more available as no one will have the recon L5 max skilled alts floating around and max skilled cap ship alts and stuff that cost them a 30 day GTC or 2 for all loads of 60 days skills.
:atlas:
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Nureoeis
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:02:00 -
[1274]
Glad you gave people notice of these changes in advance, Two Days.
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Carsidava
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:02:00 -
[1275]
Originally by: Jauques Strap I bet most of everyone here complaining never pays a single bit of RL money to play this stupid game!
I've been playing for two and a half years and have never bought a GTC with ISK. I've paid with credit card and with CC-bought GTCs.
So yeah, take your rant and stick it. |
Ishbuanium
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:02:00 -
[1276]
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Jimer Lins I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
I'd like to see the graph too, but for the opposite reason
You'll see jack...
subscriptions (GTC) are of 2 months period... try and come back for the quaterly report...
1 month will show a rise in subs 2 month will show a fall of subs 3 month will plumet...
You still might see a small dip in subs in the first month, but point taken. Not like they're going to release the sub numbers though.
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britishfish
Minmatar Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:03:00 -
[1277]
so is this CCP`s way of reducing the lag ?
time to start looking for a new game methinks
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:04:00 -
[1278]
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards.
Hope you've still got a job next month mate. Because I don't think many people can say for sure that they will.
Plenty of jobs to go around out here in Iraq, raping children and killing innocents.
pays good too.
That job above all is an insecure one. Better sub up for a year before the Chinese get caught quietly unloading as much of their dollar reserves as they can dump on chumps before anyone notices and your paychecks become worth less than toilet paper.
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shelia kreee
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:04:00 -
[1279]
I got a few of my friends into this game because they knew they could leave from time to time and come back with something new to look foward to. Without that incentive they wont come back. I always thought this was a great feature and one of the reasons eve is better then most other mmo's. oh well, ccp sucks.
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:04:00 -
[1280]
Edited by: Fred Ayurveda on 13/10/2008 23:04:30 I still love the fat, shitsocking homosexuals who somehow have such severe Stockholm syndrome that they're defending CCP against the anger of players who were smart enough to utilize this feature EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE TO THEM EITHER WAY.
Kill yourselves...
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:04:00 -
[1281]
This whole Topic just shows CCP how much money there loosing at the mo with all these people saying itÆs a bad thing. I take it you all ghost train or have done at some point? You all just been trolled
---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
TYCONDEROGA
Amarr EMPERIAL ARMOR
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:05:00 -
[1282]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards.
Hope you've still got a job next month mate. Because I don't think many people can say for sure that they will.
Plenty of jobs to go around out here in Iraq, raping children and killing innocents.
pays good too.
That job above all is an insecure one. Better sub up for a year before the Chinese get caught quietly unloading as much of their dollar reserves as they can dump on chumps before anyone notices and your paychecks become worth less than toilet paper.
My portfolio is Diversified, I have plenty of everyone else's Monopoly money as well. Thankyou for the concern though. He who defends Everything, Defends Nothing! |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:05:00 -
[1283]
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Jimer Lins I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
I'd like to see the graph too, but for the opposite reason
You'll see jack...
subscriptions (GTC) are of 2 months period... try and come back for the quaterly report...
1 month will show a rise in subs 2 month will show a fall of subs 3 month will plumet...
You still might see a small dip in subs in the first month, but point taken. Not like they're going to release the sub numbers though.
CCP always made their active account numbers public. I wonder how long that tradition will last.
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:05:00 -
[1284]
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Jimer Lins I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
I'd like to see the graph too, but for the opposite reason
You'll see jack...
subscriptions (GTC) are of 2 months period... try and come back for the quaterly report...
1 month will show a rise in subs 2 month will show a fall of subs 3 month will plumet...
You still might see a small dip in subs in the first month, but point taken. Not like they're going to release the sub numbers though.
yeah... they didn't do this for a while now... remember when they boasted, that they reached 250k?
I never even heard a peep since!! ( not to mention GTC change and now this! :P) ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:06:00 -
[1285]
Originally by: Carsidava
Originally by: Jauques Strap I bet most of everyone here complaining never pays a single bit of RL money to play this stupid game!
I've been playing for two and a half years and have never bought a GTC with ISK. I've paid with credit card and with CC-bought GTCs.
So yeah, take your rant and stick it.
I have never bought a GTC with isk. As a matter of fact, I pay by yearly subscription now. I have never intentionally used ghost training. I do not agree with CCP's stance.
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Mitsuko Souma
Gallente The United Federation of Spice
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:06:00 -
[1286]
meh.
If you're really going to do this, can you at least have a weekend where you can transfer accounts around for free please :)
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Zacheria Malfor
Gallente Pernicious Creed
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:06:00 -
[1287]
Edited by: Zacheria Malfor on 13/10/2008 23:09:39 Over 5 years into the game seems a bit late for a change of this magnitude.
In all honesty this is calling into question my long term future in eve, I have played the game for many years, taking a few breaks due to RL as many other players no doubt have. Part the reason I kept coming back without a second thought was knowing that I had skills done so that I'd still be able to keep up with the constantly changing dynamics of the game in regards to skills and newly implemented items and features.
I cannot support this move at all and it is evident that many here do not support this move either. You have a product that fills a niche here CCP and you are the owners of your property but a move like this could seriously damage subscriptions in regards to players leaving the game for temporary breaks as opposed to leaving the game permanently.
A lot of the changes have been questionable of late, I guess this is just another to add onto the pyre.
Edit - To those saying "It's only $15 a month", when people take breaks I'm sure the majority view it as a case of there is no point in paying something they aren't using. Just to clarify by using I mean actively playing... I hardly class skill training as active play.
/Zacheria
Do not fear the reaper, for death is the only certainty in life.
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Ithnolin
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:06:00 -
[1288]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards.
Hope you've still got a job next month mate. Because I don't think many people can say for sure that they will.
I can. I pay for two accounts, at the same time even, all year long. I won't be quiting over this. I will be buying up all the accounts for sale here in the near future for 1 isk each.
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Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:07:00 -
[1289]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Jimer Lins I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
I'd like to see the graph too, but for the opposite reason
You'll see jack...
subscriptions (GTC) are of 2 months period... try and come back for the quaterly report...
1 month will show a rise in subs 2 month will show a fall of subs 3 month will plumet...
You still might see a small dip in subs in the first month, but point taken. Not like they're going to release the sub numbers though.
CCP always made their active account numbers public. I wonder how long that tradition will last.
public? where?? show me! plz! ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:08:00 -
[1290]
It's also terrible how you announced this change 2 days before it goes into effect.
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Ishbuanium
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:08:00 -
[1291]
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Aganola
Originally by: Ishbuanium
Originally by: Jimer Lins I have a request, CCP:
Please post your subscription numbers as of today, the 15th, and one month after this change goes live so we can point and laugh at all the "I'm cancelling all my accounts!" people when it's shown that this will have no net effect on actual paying subscriptions.
I'd like to see the graph too, but for the opposite reason
You'll see jack...
subscriptions (GTC) are of 2 months period... try and come back for the quaterly report...
1 month will show a rise in subs 2 month will show a fall of subs 3 month will plumet...
You still might see a small dip in subs in the first month, but point taken. Not like they're going to release the sub numbers though.
CCP always made their active account numbers public. I wonder how long that tradition will last.
public? where?? show me! plz!
I require linkies!
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:08:00 -
[1292]
Originally by: Jauques Strap you whiny little immature, sociopathic, brat.
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SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:08:00 -
[1293]
This change is a shameless money grab that will lose them existing customers and deter newer players from taking up the game.
Alts are integral to any mmorpg. Some people are happy with one character, but almost all serious players in almost all mmorpgs have more than one character.
I mean fully functioning alts, not a 1 hour shake-n-bake hauler alt.
Example: You play all the time and enjoy the 0.0 end game and one of your characters is dedicated to fighting for one of the big coalitions, butà you want to enjoy other aspects of the game, and play with friends who are not in one of the big end game coalitions, so you have another alt with which you might try out FW or piracy or anti-piracy or industry, or merc life, or whatever.
Nobody in their right mind pays for more than one account to have alts in other games. Sure, rare people do, but in other games itÆs just not necessary, because one account and one subscription accommodates several characters.
Eve is one of those bizarre places where people live in complete denial about many things, and the scam with regard to forcing payment on multiple accounts is one giant squid in the room that nobody talks about.
For me, until now, I could try to keep the price of two characters down by ghost training one while playing the other. That still left Eve inferior to other games with respect cost for services, because I was forced to leave one character inactive at a time, while in other games I could play any alt I wanted whenever I wanted. I know I was being cheated, but I lived with it to play Eve and be with friends.
Ending ghost training is just over the top. That, I cannot live with.
CCP is cheating players out of money, and on top of it, insulting us further by lieing about.
The stated reason for the change is.. ôThis practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.ö
Pardon me CCP, but the game is going on five and a half years old. If there was a grave imbalance, people would have written about it. On the contrary, not only were there essentially no people complaining about it earlier, but currently players hate this change. You are not doing this for the players, youÆre doing this to cheat them out of more money. Everyone sees that.
LetÆs look at the substance of the stated reason for this change. Can you imagine the balls the CCP CEO has to have in order to have a spokesman say the above. The stated reason is because they want to have players work on their characters rather than get æfreeÆ advancement? Um, pink elephant in the room, squid in the room, hey, bloody dagger in the back, HELLO! YOU HAVE A FOUM WHERE ANYONE WITH REAL MONEY CAN, WITHIN THE EULA, BUY AS MUCH IN GAME CURRENCY AS THEY WANT AND BUY A CHARACTER 5 YEARS MORE ADVANCED IF THEY WANT. With enough cash, I can legally by game rules buy a titan and a titan pilot. And yet you, CCP, have the balls to say that youÆre curtailing ghost training to even things between people who æworkÆ in game for their progress and those who donÆt? Shame on you for the repulsive, translucent dishonesty and avarice.
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:09:00 -
[1294]
Originally by: Ithnolin
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards.
Hope you've still got a job next month mate. Because I don't think many people can say for sure that they will.
I can. I pay for two accounts, at the same time even, all year long. I won't be quiting over this. I will be buying up all the accounts for sale here in the near future for 1 isk each.
You're a bad person defending a bad company from the anger of your fellow players when nothing about the situation effects you whatsoever. CCP will find it easy enough to ignore us without you giving them excuses. **** off.
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ghengis khan2
Shad0wtech
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:09:00 -
[1295]
so...stopping training on people using multiple accounts and letting them go inactive..and having little impact on the game as a whole
doing nothing vs macro ice miners/ore miners ruining the ingame economy /selling isk / destroying high sec systems for those that wish to live there, while protecting them with concord and ignoring all petitions against them
(yes i have petitioned many and recieved the standard "we will look into it "reply while the macros continue for months)..
[url] |
SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:09:00 -
[1296]
On the topic of RMT, real cash for in game advancement, some people excuse the forced payment for multiple accounts to skill up more than one character by saying that itÆs not so bad when you can pay for GTCs, play time, with in game currency. It has always baffled me why people in Eve hate gold farmers so vehemently, while at the same time condone CCP making their own player base into gold farmers. What else would you call it when a game has some players earn in game currency by working in game, while others pay real cash for that in game currency, and the gaming company taking a cut. I donÆt care if you do it on the CCP official site, or if you do it on the black market, if you earn isk and you sell it for real life cash, you are a gold farmer. Am I saying that people who buy and sell gold are evil? No, not at all. IÆm not taking sides on that issue. IÆm not here to argue for or against RMT, IÆm NOT. IÆm not here to argue for or against gold farming or character trade or anything. IÆm NOT. My point is just to say that itÆs the height of hypocrisy for CCP to maintain theyÆre going for æfairÆ with regard to work and player advancement, and the height of denial for players to maintain CCP isnÆt using them as gold farmers. If you have a second or third account, and you pay for it with isk for GTC, and youÆre happy, then great, fantastic, wonderful, IÆm happy for you. Still, neither you, nor CCP can deny that essentially, youÆre paying for that account by gold farming for CCP. If youÆre happy, IÆm happy, but donÆt tell me itÆs not gold farming for CCP, because it is.
Well, thatÆs my initial reaction to discontinuation of ghost training.
Maybe IÆll have more when I wade through the 50 pages of the Eve forum thread on it.
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rofflesausage
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:09:00 -
[1297]
Edited by: rofflesausage on 13/10/2008 23:10:21 Who honestly didn't see this coming after they killed 30 day GTCs? Really?
Worked fine on paper: Stop all GTCs apart from 60 days (with a slight price increase to boot) and then stop training while account is inactive. Pure profit motives.
The bloke who got me into EvE has been ghost training on and off the last 6 months due to real life issues. The result? CCP still get some money off him over this period with NO additional load on the server for that player. Win-Win you would think?
Meh. I've never ghost trained but got sucked in by "The power of 2" offer, which I guess I would have done it on at some point. Thing is, I don't need that account in the slightest, it was more of something on the side. The chances that that account is going to be a fully paying one now are pretty much zero.
Bad move CCP
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chotaire
Caldari The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:09:00 -
[1298]
Originally by: Carsidava
Originally by: Jauques Strap I bet most of everyone here complaining never pays a single bit of RL money to play this stupid game!
I've been playing for two and a half years and have never bought a GTC with ISK. I've paid with credit card and with CC-bought GTCs.
So yeah, take your rant and stick it.
Just for you guys to realize, if you pay a GTC with isk, the person who sold it to you still paid for it with real money. So? No loss for CCP.
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ingenting
20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:10:00 -
[1299]
EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE _________________
- "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb." |
Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:11:00 -
[1300]
Originally by: ingenting EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE
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Iridius Fervus
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:11:00 -
[1301]
48+ pages. 1 (2 including original post and several edits on player posts) dev response(s) to 1400+ player responses. Nice work ****s.
-3 accounts
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Sanadis
Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:11:00 -
[1302]
Originally by: ingenting EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE
So did you pay for your account just to say that?
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ghengis khan2
Shad0wtech
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:12:00 -
[1303]
i think ccp lost their bookmark to this thread and now they cant find it again [url] |
Moving Buddy
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:12:00 -
[1304]
There were 1,424 replies to this thread at time of writing. I guess CCP will figure that hey, that's 6 chars per person based on two accounts. Only 237 people complaining tops. Awesome.
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:12:00 -
[1305]
There's quite a number of answers to this thread and I'll admit I haven't read them all, but I did glance through a few pages.
my 0.02ISK + GST:
It's probably going to cause some longer term pilots with multiple accounts in stasis for long skills to have some issues and may cause a few to leave unless it's quickly backed up with a skill queue.
Personally I'd be a bit upset if I left for holiday/work/hospital visit/etc. and had allowed my accounts to lapse during that period, but expected my long term skill to be completed when I returned.
______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University.
Now Recruiting. |
Vanessa Vasquez
Lyonesse. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:12:00 -
[1306]
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards.
advantage of ghost training?!? Mate, the advantage you are talking about is not beeing able to play ffs! People choose ghost training cause they can't afford to pay every month, or they are on vacation. Or even are sick of playing a month without any noticeable progression. Yeah, training a 30+ day skill is WAY of limits! AT least for me.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:13:00 -
[1307]
Originally by: Fred Ayurveda Edited by: Fred Ayurveda on 13/10/2008 23:04:30 I still love the fat, shitsocking homosexuals who somehow have such severe Stockholm syndrome that they're defending CCP against the anger of players who were smart enough to utilize this feature EVEN THOUGH THERE IS NO ADVANTAGE TO THEM EITHER WAY.
Kill yourselves...
How about you rage on the forums about it some moar
I really thought that the EVE forums needed another one of those ridiculously emoragey threadnaughts like after the carrier nerf, and this thread surely delivers __________
Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? |
Ishbuanium
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:13:00 -
[1308]
Originally by: Bonefish O'Hallahan
Originally by: ingenting EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE
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Bonefish O'Hallahan
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:13:00 -
[1309]
Originally by: Sanadis
Originally by: ingenting EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE EVE IS GONNA DIE
So did you pay for your account just to say that?
yase
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Char'ex
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:13:00 -
[1310]
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA
Originally by: Snakebloke
Originally by: TYCONDEROGA Edited by: TYCONDEROGA on 13/10/2008 22:38:11 If you cannot afford 15$ a month for a hobby as time consuming as this, you seriously need to re-evaluate your budget, or your life.
I've been playing since 04' and I've never taken advantage of Ghost training, my loss? maybe...
Who cares. I love the game CCP puts out, and I will gladly MOTHER ****ING PAY FOR IT.
Whining bastards.
Just for your information that is an immature, naieve view of the world that we live in and i hope that you reach puberty sooner than later. I understand that CCP wont like what i just said but i dont care, some people have children, reesponsibilities or $800 credit card bills for Fanfest '08 (woot cant wait :D) so saying such a thing is simply ign'ant
So to summarize. naive, immature, and ignorant is the following:
Not living beyond ones means Paying for something you enjoy
And Mature is:
Paying 800$ for fanfest Not being able to afford the 15$ subscription fee for the game that you're going to fanfest to celebrate.
Nice Reasoning there.
I think what can simply sum it up is that I can go out and by a game, such as Call of Duty 4 etc (with such a varity of games to appeal to anyones taste) for a one off payment and play online as much as I want for no extra cost. Or I can pay $80 a year for a game which is good, but dated, buggy, and in all honesty, it would never make it off the shelves if it was offline. As to TYCONDEROGA, I would never consider Eve a hobby personally, or any other game for that matter. I see a hobby as something benefical to the person, such as sport, or playing an instrument. Not sitting behind a desk in a make-belief world. My opinion of course. This though shows what I predict will happen. The 'hardcore' players will continue, but all the casual players will drop out. For me thats what seperated EvE from other MMO games, the mix of the two. CCP are loosing a great unique selling point by doing this...
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elohllird
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:13:00 -
[1311]
Originally by: SZ Rota
This change is a shameless money grab that will lose them existing customers and deter newer players from taking up the game.
Alts are integral to any mmorpg. Some people are happy with one character, but almost all serious players in almost all mmorpgs have more than one character.
I mean fully functioning alts, not a 1 hour shake-n-bake hauler alt.
Example: You play all the time and enjoy the 0.0 end game and one of your characters is dedicated to fighting for one of the big coalitions, butà you want to enjoy other aspects of the game, and play with friends who are not in one of the big end game coalitions, so you have another alt with which you might try out FW or piracy or anti-piracy or industry, or merc life, or whatever.
Nobody in their right mind pays for more than one account to have alts in other games. Sure, rare people do, but in other games itÆs just not necessary, because one account and one subscription accommodates several characters.
Eve is one of those bizarre places where people live in complete denial about many things, and the scam with regard to forcing payment on multiple accounts is one giant squid in the room that nobody talks about.
For me, until now, I could try to keep the price of two characters down by ghost training one while playing the other. That still left Eve inferior to other games with respect cost for services, because I was forced to leave one character inactive at a time, while in other games I could play any alt I wanted whenever I wanted. I know I was being cheated, but I lived with it to play Eve and be with friends.
Ending ghost training is just over the top. That, I cannot live with.
CCP is cheating players out of money, and on top of it, insulting us further by lieing about.
The stated reason for the change is.. ôThis practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.ö
Pardon me CCP, but the game is going on five and a half years old. If there was a grave imbalance, people would have written about it. On the contrary, not only were there essentially no people complaining about it earlier, but currently players hate this change. You are not doing this for the players, youÆre doing this to cheat them out of more money. Everyone sees that.
LetÆs look at the substance of the stated reason for this change. Can you imagine the balls the CCP CEO has to have in order to have a spokesman say the above. The stated reason is because they want to have players work on their characters rather than get æfreeÆ advancement? Um, pink elephant in the room, squid in the room, hey, bloody dagger in the back, HELLO! YOU HAVE A FOUM WHERE ANYONE WITH REAL MONEY CAN, WITHIN THE EULA, BUY AS MUCH IN GAME CURRENCY AS THEY WANT AND BUY A CHARACTER 5 YEARS MORE ADVANCED IF THEY WANT. With enough cash, I can legally by game rules buy a titan and a titan pilot. And yet you, CCP, have the balls to say that youÆre curtailing ghost training to even things between people who æworkÆ in game for their progress and those who donÆt? Shame on you for the repulsive, translucent dishonesty and avarice.
This ^^
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:14:00 -
[1312]
Originally by: Moving Buddy There were 1,424 replies to this thread at time of writing. I guess CCP will figure that hey, that's 6 chars per person based on two accounts. Only 237 people complaining tops. Awesome.
Hey just because the only way you can get someone to agree with you is to log an alt and do it yourself doesn't mean the rest of are similar.
I don't alt-post. Period.
Oh and as long as we're throwing around baseless ad-hominems... which CCP employee are you?
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Makkiel
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:14:00 -
[1313]
This probably is the worst thing you could do ...
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:14:00 -
[1314]
Personally I don't really see the problem.
Then again, I have always kept my accounts active.
Maybe now newer players who are willing to pay for what they get can catch up with older players who aren't?
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Ivor Gunn
No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:14:00 -
[1315]
Where is the promised dev blog?
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Earthican
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:14:00 -
[1316]
All accounts belonging to players who have posted that they are going to quit when this goes through WILL be deleted when this goes through.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:15:00 -
[1317]
Originally by: Earthican All accounts belonging to players who have posted that they are going to quit when this goes through WILL be deleted when this goes through.
That would be pretty laffo.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:15:00 -
[1318]
This is an awful idea. Luckily, I think it's going to hurt CCP far more than it hurts players, which is generally the karmic consequence of making a poor choice. -----
CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:16:00 -
[1319]
Originally by: Iridius Fervus 48+ pages. 1 (2 including original post and several edits on player posts) dev response(s) to 1400+ player responses. Nice work ****s.
-3 accounts
Can I have your stuff? __________
Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 -
[1320]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Moving Buddy There were 1,424 replies to this thread at time of writing. I guess CCP will figure that hey, that's 6 chars per person based on two accounts. Only 237 people complaining tops. Awesome.
Hey just because the only way you can get someone to agree with you is to log an alt and do it yourself doesn't mean the rest of are similar.
I don't alt-post. Period.
Oh and as long as we're throwing around baseless ad-hominems... which CCP employee are you?
yeah why the fuss of exiting and entering this thread with my other chars??
ITs more fun this way! :D ----------------------------------------------- "I do not belive in reicarnation... I didn't believed in it in my previous lives either..."
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Sanadis
Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 -
[1321]
Originally by: Avon Personally I don't really see the problem.
Then again, I have always kept my accounts active.
Maybe now newer players who are willing to pay for what they get can catch up with older players who aren't?
I think its a good idea to remove this. Maybe this will finally get rid of a bunch of people we do not need around. My accounts are always active too, and if I ever have to go anywhere, I have friends who can take of my account for me
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Phyridean
Lionsgate Ionic Dispersion Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 -
[1322]
Originally by: SZ Rota
This change is a shameless money grab that will lose them existing customers and deter newer players from taking up the game.
Alts are integral to any mmorpg. Some people are happy with one character, but almost all serious players in almost all mmorpgs have more than one character.
I mean fully functioning alts, not a 1 hour shake-n-bake hauler alt.
Example: You play all the time and enjoy the 0.0 end game and one of your characters is dedicated to fighting for one of the big coalitions, butà you want to enjoy other aspects of the game, and play with friends who are not in one of the big end game coalitions, so you have another alt with which you might try out FW or piracy or anti-piracy or industry, or merc life, or whatever.
Nobody in their right mind pays for more than one account to have alts in other games. Sure, rare people do, but in other games itÆs just not necessary, because one account and one subscription accommodates several characters.
Eve is one of those bizarre places where people live in complete denial about many things, and the scam with regard to forcing payment on multiple accounts is one giant squid in the room that nobody talks about.
For me, until now, I could try to keep the price of two characters down by ghost training one while playing the other. That still left Eve inferior to other games with respect cost for services, because I was forced to leave one character inactive at a time, while in other games I could play any alt I wanted whenever I wanted. I know I was being cheated, but I lived with it to play Eve and be with friends.
Ending ghost training is just over the top. That, I cannot live with.
CCP is cheating players out of money, and on top of it, insulting us further by lieing about.
The stated reason for the change is.. ôThis practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.ö
Pardon me CCP, but the game is going on five and a half years old. If there was a grave imbalance, people would have written about it. On the contrary, not only were there essentially no people complaining about it earlier, but currently players hate this change. You are not doing this for the players, youÆre doing this to cheat them out of more money. Everyone sees that.
LetÆs look at the substance of the stated reason for this change. Can you imagine the balls the CCP CEO has to have in order to have a spokesman say the above. The stated reason is because they want to have players work on their characters rather than get æfreeÆ advancement? Um, pink elephant in the room, squid in the room, hey, bloody dagger in the back, HELLO! YOU HAVE A FOUM WHERE ANYONE WITH REAL MONEY CAN, WITHIN THE EULA, BUY AS MUCH IN GAME CURRENCY AS THEY WANT AND BUY A CHARACTER 5 YEARS MORE ADVANCED IF THEY WANT. With enough cash, I can legally by game rules buy a titan and a titan pilot. And yet you, CCP, have the balls to say that youÆre curtailing ghost training to even things between people who æworkÆ in game for their progress and those who donÆt? Shame on you for the repulsive, translucent dishonesty and avarice.
This is entirely correct on all counts. I wish I had said exactly this in my earlier post.
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AnnonOMous
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 -
[1323]
Instead of removing ghost training completely, why can't you put a one or two week limit on?
That said, you'll probably do just that in 3 or 4 months because you realised that removing ghost training was a stupid move, and because that's when you finally figure out of to code it so it works with no bug(s).
The reason I say a week is simply so that people who don't know when they're accounts are going to expire can renew they're accounts.
The best thing ccp could do is say it's a big joke and in a few weeks, no one will ever mention it again.
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Siegfried Untreu
Caldari Quid Pro Quo
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 -
[1324]
-4 accounts.
Good job CCP.
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TimGascoigne
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 -
[1325]
I have figured it out, this is eve trying to avoid the credit crunch.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:18:00 -
[1326]
Bad move CCP. I've ghost-trained when I've had to leave the game on RL terms.
Now you'll take away my Amarr Cruiser 5, Caldari BS 5 as well?
Whats the real reason of this change? Dont give us that "balance" bullshit. You just want people to pay to train for alts.
Bad decision CCP. If this change goes through, I will not be renewing my account ever. -
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Molten Steel
19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:18:00 -
[1327]
I hope this is a prelude for some kind of skill training queue, otherwise it's just meh.
However at least have the balls to be frank about the reasons - this has nothing to do with balance apart from your own financial balance.
-1 account
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Endeva
Caldari Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:18:00 -
[1328]
next patch will be if you dont pay acc your skills will start to untrain:)
Recruiment thread |
Maconha
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:18:00 -
[1329]
Originally by: Ivor Gunn
Where is the promised dev blog?
yes!!! where is it?
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Fred Ayurveda
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:18:00 -
[1330]
I shouldn't be surprised that there are players defending CCP here- by definition, anyone defending this is a socially crippled nerd who has never felt the need to let their account in this very mediocre game slip for even a little while. Gee, the bottom of the nerd barrel on the internet supports your change CCP- enough that they're willing to backstab the rest of us just for the hell of it.
Pathetic.
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Iridius Fervus
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:19:00 -
[1331]
Originally by: Moving Buddy There were 1,424 replies to this thread at time of writing. I guess CCP will figure that hey, that's 6 chars per person based on two accounts. Only 237 people complaining tops. Awesome.
237 players x15 a month ------------ 3555 a month
thats more than most of us make a month. if i worked at ccp id listen to that.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:19:00 -
[1332]
Please read over the blog on this topic and then continue the discussion in the blog thread.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following... |
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Nimrad Eslebon
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:20:00 -
[1333]
Although it is your (CCPs) right to decide under which conditions the customers can use your services the ghost-training was nice feature and will be missed by many players.
Mostly the way ccp introduced this change is very unpleasant:
1. Why was ghost-Training implemented in the beginning when it's now considered as "unfair"? 2. Why can't you be honnest to you playerbase and admit that this decision is just a result of financial / economic demand. 3. If there is really an urgent need for increasing subcription-income (maybe due to financial-crisis or what ever), than why couldn't possible changes not be dsicussed with the playerbase BEFORE any changes take effect. This way a better solution could have been found for CCP and the players (There already were some nice ideas which would make a good compromise for both sides).
I hope this huge thread is a sign that many players consider the ghost-training as a nice feature of EVE and see it as unique selling-point in reference to other mmorgs. If there is really the need for an unavoidable raise of supcription-profits there maybe various ways to find a solution with the playerbase and not against it.
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Elrinarie
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:20:00 -
[1334]
Originally by: Ithnolin Cause that Level 5 BS skill helps you fly sooooo many more ships and do sooooo many more things than BS 4. Wonderful logic there.
If i'm not mistaken almost every capital ship requires BS5, as do marauders and black ops.
and honestly you aren't going to see a huge jump in performance by wasting the 1-2 months of training in your battleship skill so unless you are specifically going for one of these larger and/or specialized ships why else would you train that to 5.
it all boils down to however that this is a dumb move. Also, I notice that it says "inactive" as well as expired accounts.
what is considered inactive? if I'm going to be forced to pay for skill training but unable to log in due to RL issues I'm going to be flagged as inactive? Give us more information here. --------------------- Creator of another Mining Calculator |
Kif
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 -
[1335]
Originally by: Jauques Strap I would like to open with some obvious sarcasm.....Whoa! Wait a minute. You mean I have to pay RL money for this game?!?
You people are pathetic little whiners. Here I am paying RL money each month to simply play a game, but no, you couldn't leave it at that.
I bet most of everyone here complaining never pays a single bit of RL money to play this stupid game! Like "TheAdj" who commented on the 1st page of this thread that GTC's are going to eventually cost 500m isk. All that says to me is "I make enough fake money in game to play for free and I'm going to whine about it." And while I'm at it, I'm going to take the advantage I have and exploit it by training a whole bunch of accounts. And oh yeah, not pay for any of them.
Well, screw you and the horse you rode in on pal. Join the club. Stand in line. Wait your turn. Sit down and shut the **** up! Who in the frak raised you? Wild goats?
You're going to have to now pick and choose who lives and who bites the digital bullet out of your precious little armada of characters you whiny little immature, sociopathic, brat. Or better yet, keep your little fake people and get a RL job, or one that pays better.
I personally can't wait for the culling to begin. Just like when CCP cleaned up space of all the abandoned cargo cans and ships that were just sitting there for years.
You're all cheating and the sad thing is you all know it and the worst part of it all is that you have the balls to post here and complain about your cheating.
If you've ever had a skill train while your account was lapsed YOU'RE A CHEATER!!
Now thats out of the way, why yes I appreciate all of the completely rational personal attacks. thanks.
Its blatently obvious that eve is split into two games: Empire/Low Sec shittery and 0.0
In empire theres significantly LESS reason to have a second account where as in 0.0 theres significantly MUCH MORE motivation to have a second account. People who have spent their entire eve careers in empire completely seperate of the main draw of this game (conquerable space) see no reason why this "nerf" on extra accounts affects them and just don't care. It's a total "I got mine, **** you" reaction.
The people who actively LIVE in 0.0 and make this game as dynamic and popular and NEWSWORTHY as it has been in the past are all but FORCED to have more than one account. Just ask any capital ship pilot, 0.0 importer/exporter, producer, miner or anyone who runs POS's how on earth they would get by with just one account and 3 character slots. You cant even move your own goddamn capital ship without another characters help.
CCP ENCOURAGED this type of playing with the power of two offer and "ghost" training among other things. Like it or not, if you want to experience all the depth that eve has to offer the best way to do that is with alts and the only way to train up those alts without losing time on your main is to get a second account. In ANY other MMO this would be total bullshit. You are never actively pigeonholed into one character like the way you are in EVE. The only way that this was excusable was that it wasn't that big of a deal to get enough money for a 30d timecard every now and then and keep an alt going and every time you'r alt went inactive every few months or so, you would have that extra motivation to resubscribe and be that much better. Now that BOTH of these are not true anymore, its a straight up decision:
Do you want to pay $14.99 or whatever million isk for a timecard for ONLY 60 days of training?
For a lot of people, myself included, the answer is simply no.
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Jaxxon Voers
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 -
[1336]
Suddenly, after 5 years, its important to nerf the horrible bastards (also known as 'Eve's player base') who used a legit and quite nice game mechanic? If you are going to nerf expired training, why not really go for it and say training can only happen while actively online? There is really no difference, except the money. So dont insult me by telling me its for my own good, its rude as hell to lie to your customers. Its all about getting paid more. But will you get paid more?
I have come back to Eve twice because I knew I was coming back to a long awaited skill. Love playing Eve, enjoyed it since 2004, but its all nerf-bat with you guys lately, and thats the complete opposite of fun, which is why I play games in the first place...fun. Remember that? Fun?
What happened to the days of snowball launchers and Jove shards?
You want to know what upsets the balance of a game? Looks to me like you guys are on a real good track to find out.
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Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 -
[1337]
Quickies.
People saying that the expiry time of their skills creeps up on them? Look at your skill page it tells you how many days, hours and minutes to go. Write the date and time on a post-it note and put it under your monitor.
People who say they don't realise their GTC is about to run out. The clue is in the name! "60-day" means sixty days, surprise! Write it down on a post-it note, etc.
People paying by subscription don't realise it is about to expire? Use the "My Account" page. The link is just over there to your left.
This has been an idiot information message.
This change is long-overdue (and yes, of course it should apply to RP and the rest too)
IZ
My principles
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ghengis khan2
Shad0wtech
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 -
[1338]
speaking of doing stupid things , my local council recently spent ú6000 on braille signing at a local sports center,. while i applaud this as a step towards helping those less advantaged than myself, these were for health and safety advice and instructions for the playing of squash.. a sport which requires fast reflexes and acute hand/eye co-ordination.
The RNIB (royal national institute for the blind) was quoted on local radio as saying. " there are many sports that visualy impaired people may participate in, however squash is not one of them".
just an example of people trying to help where it is not needed.
true story [url] |
People Eater
No Limit Productions OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:22:00 -
[1339]
Over the summers I go on extended vacations leaving a nice long juicy skill to train. If for some reason that time would have gone to waste and nothing would have been accomplished, I doubt I would have reactivated my account.
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Malogore
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:22:00 -
[1340]
I know I haven't been part of this universe for very long, but I know many people who have been loyal customers for several years. They play this game as an escape. Sometimes people have to take breaks for real life situations. It's nice to know when someone returns after a month hiatus or so, that their toon is up to date. Money is money, yall get paid either way. You WILL lose subscribers with this move.
That's my two cents.
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Seeker Ash
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:23:00 -
[1341]
Me mind is made up. Until there's a revolutionary planetside expansion that makes the game explosively popular and cements its future existence, I'm going on a break.
Yeah, I say when and not if, I still have hope the game will survive, just not enough that I want to risk giving it any commitment. _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues." |
Annover Haf
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:29:00 -
[1342]
-3 alt accounts, 2 to 3 of which would be active any given month. Thanks for telling us 2 days in advance CCP. The thing that kept me coming back to eve over the last few years was that I could take a break, then come back to new ships and new skills. Now what do I have to come back to? It's certainly not the isk grind, pos warfare, or craptastic fleet lag that has kept me interested in this game.
Do you need to thin the player base or something? Is this part of the need for speed initiative? Less accounts playing the game = less strain on the hardware?
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KaRAmuno
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:32:00 -
[1343]
I would like not to tell I agree or not agree with other players, I just say about myself.
Guys(CCP), I have 3 accounts. For 1st account I pay constantly. (and even there was a 5month breake just to have a rest from eve, but then I was back only becouse I knew I have BS skill trained to 5th lvl and wanted to try - how it is to have a BS trained to 5th lvl) For 2nd and 3rd I pay next day I have completition of my skill training in Gost training. Only this way. I dont sure I will pay $50 per month. I can but I dont have to.
What do we have:"Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008.": --> I don't see a reason to reactivate my second account as I set a 36day skill only on 10 oct 2008 and It wont be completed on 15 nov 2008. As its a second account I'm not sure I will continue to pay for that. I also wanted to train Freighter to 5lvl... then Jump Freighter. ok I won't. --> I won't have a Jump Freighter I don't need a scout and jammer and Cyno(its a 3rd account) --> And back to 1st account: I tryed frigs(5 lvl), cruisers(5 lvl), Battleships (5 lvl),... recons, HACs, ceptors, dreadnoughts... what else... covers, bombers... almost every combat ship. ... .what is next? I don't see a future for me to play by one account. --> I stop playing eve. I was waiting it for so long!!! Now You have a chance to help me do that! :)
The next step is gaining SP only when you are online = LA2 --> hate this game. )
And one more: I bring to EVE 2 men. They have only 1 acc per person. And one of the main point to make them change their mind and start playing EVE was the ability of this "Ghost Training". They have not to be online always to get exp(like LA2) and even when they can't play for month of two they don't have to pay for this time just not to be behind the times.
-2 my accounts -1 my friends account as I know. :(
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freddy madball
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:37:00 -
[1344]
i dont understand how some of the people in the last 40 someodd pages will " sell " their characters, i thought that was against t.o.s.? and if you are selling for isk and closing an account... someone else will get it, though possibly as an alt on an account they already pay for. so i see the revenu of ccp taking a hit, at least for the short term. i activated this account with the intention of building a hauler/miner/builder.
Admitidely i was planning on ghost training a few skills to accomplish this. Sure, ccp might loose out on a month or two of pay time on this account, but they stood to make far more off of me with two accounts instead of one.
to be honest this made me look at things and decide i dont really need to make anything more then a character capable of flying a t1 hauler...And i will just take the time off of training my main long enough to make a t1 hauler alt. problem solved. no whining or complaining ive decided i dont really need a miner/builder now because of this. My main will still remain active of course till the end. and it is fair enough, pay to play and all of that. no pay, no sp gains. ok i can get by with that, on my ONE main account.
but ive decided that this is a blatant lie about game balance, on top of the gtc changes, and poor performance, as well as LACK OF ABILITY..OR DESIRE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT ISK FARMERS who deplete game resources that real game players could certainly use instead.. because hey they pay for their accounts right? you pay lip service to being anti macro it seems, and if one were to really think about it with all of the things you have done recently to real players....you wont do anything to upset all those isk farmers in the ice belts will you? of course not, especially by looking at your current track record. They represent income.
and gtc sales for isk? how is that game balancing? other then balancing your pockets instead of isk farmers pockets?
At least be honest about your reasons, and not lie, because if it was about balance, there is a whole laundry list of things that were far more importan then this ghost training that should have been tackled.
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