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Ghost Training to be Removed

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Sanadis Gallente Sphere Industries Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 - [1321] Originally by: Avon Personally I don't really see the problem. Then again, I have always kept my accounts active. Maybe now newer players who are willing to pay for what they get can catch up with older players who aren't? I think its a good idea to remove this. Maybe this will finally get rid of a bunch of people we do not need around. My accounts are always active too, and if I ever have to go anywhere, I have friends who can take of my account for me
Phyridean Lionsgate Ionic Dispersion Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 - [1322] Originally by: SZ Rota This change is a shameless money grab that will lose them existing customers and deter newer players from taking up the game. Alts are integral to any mmorpg. Some people are happy with one character, but almost all serious players in almost all mmorpgs have more than one character. I mean fully functioning alts, not a 1 hour shake-n-bake hauler alt. Example: You play all the time and enjoy the 0.0 end game and one of your characters is dedicated to fighting for one of the big coalitions, butà you want to enjoy other aspects of the game, and play with friends who are not in one of the big end game coalitions, so you have another alt with which you might try out FW or piracy or anti-piracy or industry, or merc life, or whatever. Nobody in their right mind pays for more than one account to have alts in other games. Sure, rare people do, but in other games itÆs just not necessary, because one account and one subscription accommodates several characters. Eve is one of those bizarre places where people live in complete denial about many things, and the scam with regard to forcing payment on multiple accounts is one giant squid in the room that nobody talks about. For me, until now, I could try to keep the price of two characters down by ghost training one while playing the other. That still left Eve inferior to other games with respect cost for services, because I was forced to leave one character inactive at a time, while in other games I could play any alt I wanted whenever I wanted. I know I was being cheated, but I lived with it to play Eve and be with friends. Ending ghost training is just over the top. That, I cannot live with. CCP is cheating players out of money, and on top of it, insulting us further by lieing about. The stated reason for the change is.. ôThis practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not.ö Pardon me CCP, but the game is going on five and a half years old. If there was a grave imbalance, people would have written about it. On the contrary, not only were there essentially no people complaining about it earlier, but currently players hate this change. You are not doing this for the players, youÆre doing this to cheat them out of more money. Everyone sees that. LetÆs look at the substance of the stated reason for this change. Can you imagine the balls the CCP CEO has to have in order to have a spokesman say the above. The stated reason is because they want to have players work on their characters rather than get æfreeÆ advancement? Um, pink elephant in the room, squid in the room, hey, bloody dagger in the back, HELLO! YOU HAVE A FOUM WHERE ANYONE WITH REAL MONEY CAN, WITHIN THE EULA, BUY AS MUCH IN GAME CURRENCY AS THEY WANT AND BUY A CHARACTER 5 YEARS MORE ADVANCED IF THEY WANT. With enough cash, I can legally by game rules buy a titan and a titan pilot. And yet you, CCP, have the balls to say that youÆre curtailing ghost training to even things between people who æworkÆ in game for their progress and those who donÆt? Shame on you for the repulsive, translucent dishonesty and avarice. This is entirely correct on all counts. I wish I had said exactly this in my earlier post.
AnnonOMous	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 - [1323] Instead of removing ghost training completely, why can't you put a one or two week limit on? That said, you'll probably do just that in 3 or 4 months because you realised that removing ghost training was a stupid move, ~~and because that's when you finally figure out of to code it so it works with no bug(s).~~ The reason I say a week is simply so that people who don't know when they're accounts are going to expire can renew they're accounts. The best thing ccp could do is say it's a big joke and in a few weeks, no one will ever mention it again.
Siegfried Untreu Caldari Quid Pro Quo	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 - [1324] -4 accounts. Good job CCP.
TimGascoigne The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:17:00 - [1325] I have figured it out, this is eve trying to avoid the credit crunch.
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:18:00 - [1326] Bad move CCP. I've ghost-trained when I've had to leave the game on RL terms. Now you'll take away my Amarr Cruiser 5, Caldari BS 5 as well? Whats the real reason of this change? Dont give us that "balance" bullshit. You just want people to pay to train for alts. Bad decision CCP. If this change goes through, I will not be renewing my account ever. -
Molten Steel 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:18:00 - [1327] I hope this is a prelude for some kind of skill training queue, otherwise it's just meh. However at least have the balls to be frank about the reasons - this has nothing to do with balance apart from your own financial balance. -1 account
Endeva Caldari Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:18:00 - [1328] next patch will be if you dont pay acc your skills will start to untrain:) Recruiment thread
Maconha	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:18:00 - [1329] Originally by: Ivor Gunn Where is the promised dev blog? yes!!! where is it?
Fred Ayurveda	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:18:00 - [1330] I shouldn't be surprised that there are players defending CCP here- by definition, anyone defending this is a socially crippled nerd who has never felt the need to let their account in this very mediocre game slip for even a little while. Gee, the bottom of the nerd barrel on the internet supports your change CCP- enough that they're willing to backstab the rest of us just for the hell of it. Pathetic.

Iridius Fervus	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:19:00 - [1331] Originally by: Moving Buddy There were 1,424 replies to this thread at time of writing. I guess CCP will figure that hey, that's 6 chars per person based on two accounts. Only 237 people complaining tops. Awesome. 237 players x15 a month ------------ 3555 a month thats more than most of us make a month. if i worked at ccp id listen to that.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:19:00 - [1332] Please read over the blog on this topic and then continue the discussion in the blog thread. Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following...

Nimrad Eslebon	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:20:00 - [1333] Although it is your (CCPs) right to decide under which conditions the customers can use your services the ghost-training was nice feature and will be missed by many players. Mostly the way ccp introduced this change is very unpleasant: 1. Why was ghost-Training implemented in the beginning when it's now considered as "unfair"? 2. Why can't you be honnest to you playerbase and admit that this decision is just a result of financial / economic demand. 3. If there is really an urgent need for increasing subcription-income (maybe due to financial-crisis or what ever), than why couldn't possible changes not be dsicussed with the playerbase BEFORE any changes take effect. This way a better solution could have been found for CCP and the players (There already were some nice ideas which would make a good compromise for both sides). I hope this huge thread is a sign that many players consider the ghost-training as a nice feature of EVE and see it as unique selling-point in reference to other mmorgs. If there is really the need for an unavoidable raise of supcription-profits there maybe various ways to find a solution with the playerbase and not against it.
Elrinarie Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:20:00 - [1334] Originally by: Ithnolin Cause that Level 5 BS skill helps you fly sooooo many more ships and do sooooo many more things than BS 4. Wonderful logic there. If i'm not mistaken almost every capital ship requires BS5, as do marauders and black ops. and honestly you aren't going to see a huge jump in performance by wasting the 1-2 months of training in your battleship skill so unless you are specifically going for one of these larger and/or specialized ships why else would you train that to 5. it all boils down to however that this is a dumb move. Also, I notice that it says "inactive" as well as expired accounts. what is considered inactive? if I'm going to be forced to pay for skill training but unable to log in due to RL issues I'm going to be flagged as inactive? Give us more information here. --------------------- Creator of another Mining Calculator
Kif GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 - [1335] Originally by: Jauques Strap I would like to open with some obvious sarcasm.....Whoa! Wait a minute. You mean I have to pay RL money for this game?!? You people are pathetic little whiners. Here I am paying RL money each month to simply play a game, but no, you couldn't leave it at that. I bet most of everyone here complaining never pays a single bit of RL money to play this stupid game! Like "TheAdj" who commented on the 1st page of this thread that GTC's are going to eventually cost 500m isk. All that says to me is "I make enough fake money in game to play for free and I'm going to whine about it." And while I'm at it, I'm going to take the advantage I have and exploit it by training a whole bunch of accounts. And oh yeah, not pay for any of them. Well, screw you and the horse you rode in on pal. Join the club. Stand in line. Wait your turn. Sit down and shut the ** up! Who in the frak raised you? Wild goats? You're going to have to now pick and choose who lives and who bites the digital bullet out of your precious little armada of characters you whiny little immature, sociopathic, brat. Or better yet, keep your little fake people and get a RL job, or one that pays better. I personally can't wait for the culling to begin. Just like when CCP cleaned up space of all the abandoned cargo cans and ships that were just sitting there for years. You're all cheating and the sad thing is you all know it and the worst part of it all is that you have the balls to post here and complain about your cheating. If you've ever had a skill train while your account was lapsed YOU'RE A CHEATER!! Now thats out of the way, why yes I appreciate all of the completely rational personal attacks. thanks. Its blatently obvious that eve is split into two games: Empire/Low Sec shittery and 0.0 In empire theres significantly LESS reason to have a second account where as in 0.0 theres significantly MUCH MORE motivation to have a second account. People who have spent their entire eve careers in empire completely seperate of the main draw of this game (conquerable space) see no reason why this "nerf" on extra accounts affects them and just don't care. It's a total "I got mine, ** you" reaction. The people who actively LIVE in 0.0 and make this game as dynamic and popular and NEWSWORTHY as it has been in the past are all but FORCED to have more than one account. Just ask any capital ship pilot, 0.0 importer/exporter, producer, miner or anyone who runs POS's how on earth they would get by with just one account and 3 character slots. You cant even move your own goddamn capital ship without another characters help. CCP ENCOURAGED this type of playing with the power of two offer and "ghost" training among other things. Like it or not, if you want to experience all the depth that eve has to offer the best way to do that is with alts and the only way to train up those alts without losing time on your main is to get a second account. In ANY other MMO this would be total bullshit. You are never actively pigeonholed into one character like the way you are in EVE. The only way that this was excusable was that it wasn't that big of a deal to get enough money for a 30d timecard every now and then and keep an alt going and every time you'r alt went inactive every few months or so, you would have that extra motivation to resubscribe and be that much better. Now that BOTH of these are not true anymore, its a straight up decision: Do you want to pay $14.99 or whatever million isk for a timecard for ONLY 60 days of training? For a lot of people, myself included, the answer is simply no.
Jaxxon Voers	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 - [1336] Suddenly, after 5 years, its important to nerf the horrible bastards (also known as 'Eve's player base') who used a legit and quite nice game mechanic? If you are going to nerf expired training, why not really go for it and say training can only happen while actively online? There is really no difference, except the money. So dont insult me by telling me its for my own good, its rude as hell to lie to your customers. Its all about getting paid more. But will you get paid more? I have come back to Eve twice because I knew I was coming back to a long awaited skill. Love playing Eve, enjoyed it since 2004, but its all nerf-bat with you guys lately, and thats the complete opposite of fun, which is why I play games in the first place...fun. Remember that? Fun? What happened to the days of snowball launchers and Jove shards? You want to know what upsets the balance of a game? Looks to me like you guys are on a real good track to find out.
Inanna Zuni Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 - [1337] Quickies. People saying that the expiry time of their skills creeps up on them? Look at your skill page it tells you how many days, hours and minutes to go. Write the date and time on a post-it note and put it under your monitor. People who say they don't realise their GTC is about to run out. The clue is in the name! "60-day" means sixty days, surprise! Write it down on a post-it note, etc. People paying by subscription don't realise it is about to expire? Use the "My Account" page. The link is just over there to your left. This has been an idiot information message. This change is long-overdue (and yes, of course it should apply to RP and the rest too) IZ My principles
ghengis khan2 Shad0wtech	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:21:00 - [1338] speaking of doing stupid things , my local council recently spent ú6000 on braille signing at a local sports center,. while i applaud this as a step towards helping those less advantaged than myself, these were for health and safety advice and instructions for the playing of squash.. a sport which requires fast reflexes and acute hand/eye co-ordination. The RNIB (royal national institute for the blind) was quoted on local radio as saying. " there are many sports that visualy impaired people may participate in, however squash is not one of them". just an example of people trying to help where it is not needed. true story [url]
People Eater No Limit Productions OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:22:00 - [1339] Over the summers I go on extended vacations leaving a nice long juicy skill to train. If for some reason that time would have gone to waste and nothing would have been accomplished, I doubt I would have reactivated my account.
Malogore	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:22:00 - [1340] I know I haven't been part of this universe for very long, but I know many people who have been loyal customers for several years. They play this game as an escape. Sometimes people have to take breaks for real life situations. It's nice to know when someone returns after a month hiatus or so, that their toon is up to date. Money is money, yall get paid either way. You WILL lose subscribers with this move. That's my two cents.

Seeker Ash Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:23:00 - [1341] Me mind is made up. Until there's a revolutionary planetside expansion that makes the game explosively popular and cements its future existence, I'm going on a break. Yeah, I say when and not if, I still have hope the game will survive, just not enough that I want to risk giving it any commitment. _________________ "Even space ships pilots get the blues."
Annover Haf GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:29:00 - [1342] -3 alt accounts, 2 to 3 of which would be active any given month. Thanks for telling us 2 days in advance CCP. The thing that kept me coming back to eve over the last few years was that I could take a break, then come back to new ships and new skills. Now what do I have to come back to? It's certainly not the isk grind, pos warfare, or craptastic fleet lag that has kept me interested in this game. Do you need to thin the player base or something? Is this part of the need for speed initiative? Less accounts playing the game = less strain on the hardware?
KaRAmuno	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:32:00 - [1343] I would like not to tell I agree or not agree with other players, I just say about myself. Guys(CCP), I have 3 accounts. For 1st account I pay constantly. (and even there was a 5month breake just to have a rest from eve, but then I was back only becouse I knew I have BS skill trained to 5th lvl and wanted to try - how it is to have a BS trained to 5th lvl) For 2nd and 3rd I pay next day I have completition of my skill training in Gost training. Only this way. I dont sure I will pay $50 per month. I can but I dont have to. What do we have:"Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008.": --> I don't see a reason to reactivate my second account as I set a 36day skill only on 10 oct 2008 and It wont be completed on 15 nov 2008. As its a second account I'm not sure I will continue to pay for that. I also wanted to train Freighter to 5lvl... then Jump Freighter. ok I won't. --> I won't have a Jump Freighter I don't need a scout and jammer and Cyno(its a 3rd account) --> And back to 1st account: I tryed frigs(5 lvl), cruisers(5 lvl), Battleships (5 lvl),... recons, HACs, ceptors, dreadnoughts... what else... covers, bombers... almost every combat ship. ... .what is next? I don't see a future for me to play by one account. --> I stop playing eve. I was waiting it for so long!!! Now You have a chance to help me do that! :) The next step is gaining SP only when you are online = LA2 --> hate this game. ) And one more: I bring to EVE 2 men. They have only 1 acc per person. And one of the main point to make them change their mind and start playing EVE was the ability of this "Ghost Training". They have not to be online always to get exp(like LA2) and even when they can't play for month of two they don't have to pay for this time just not to be behind the times. -2 my accounts -1 my friends account as I know. :(
freddy madball	Posted - 2008.10.13 23:37:00 - [1344] i dont understand how some of the people in the last 40 someodd pages will " sell " their characters, i thought that was against t.o.s.? and if you are selling for isk and closing an account... someone else will get it, though possibly as an alt on an account they already pay for. so i see the revenu of ccp taking a hit, at least for the short term. i activated this account with the intention of building a hauler/miner/builder. Admitidely i was planning on ghost training a few skills to accomplish this. Sure, ccp might loose out on a month or two of pay time on this account, but they stood to make far more off of me with two accounts instead of one. to be honest this made me look at things and decide i dont really need to make anything more then a character capable of flying a t1 hauler...And i will just take the time off of training my main long enough to make a t1 hauler alt. problem solved. no whining or complaining ive decided i dont really need a miner/builder now because of this. My main will still remain active of course till the end. and it is fair enough, pay to play and all of that. no pay, no sp gains. ok i can get by with that, on my ONE main account. but ive decided that this is a blatant lie about game balance, on top of the gtc changes, and poor performance, as well as LACK OF ABILITY..OR DESIRE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT ISK FARMERS who deplete game resources that real game players could certainly use instead.. because hey they pay for their accounts right? you pay lip service to being anti macro it seems, and if one were to really think about it with all of the things you have done recently to real players....you wont do anything to upset all those isk farmers in the ice belts will you? of course not, especially by looking at your current track record. They represent income. and gtc sales for isk? how is that game balancing? other then balancing your pockets instead of isk farmers pockets? At least be honest about your reasons, and not lie, because if it was about balance, there is a whole laundry list of things that were far more importan then this ghost training that should have been tackled.


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