GALLENTE DESTROYER:

Role bonus:
+50% small hybrid turret range

* Drone Damage Amplifier I: CPU increased from 27 to 30, drone damage increased from 15 to 16%
* Drone Damage Amplifier II: CPU reduced from 32 to 30, drone damage increased from 19 to 23%

Why do the Gal and Amarr hulls have 1 less fitting point then Cal or Mimmy.

Falloff, optimal, or both?


*\o/*

Why do the Gal and Amarr hulls have 1 less fitting point then Cal or Mimmy.

how come the drone damage amps now use the same cpu?

I suggest a buff for the caldari destroyer - -1 highslot, +1 midslot. Then it's got the same highs as the minmatar destroyer, but so much more utility with the 4 midslots.

well thats how it works for other damage mods .....

I think you should lock the Amarr and Gallente drone Bonus to their racial Dmg Types.

Why?

Because the uproar might actually make you fix Amarr Drones.

Pictures or they don't exist!

I am aware of the Caldari one. Need to see the other three

I am dissapointed with the gallente destroyer, it is the same as ALL gallente drone ships, split weapon systems. How about 15% drone damage per level and 10% drone tracking per level

Play nice now Yes yes, we know they need to be looked, poor things.

Does the minmatar destroyer get a bonus only to explosive damage or am I reading that wrong?

Not really sure why the Gallente hull has hybrid optimal rather than falloff?



also this

Drone damage projection is actually really really bad if the target isn't webbed and/or scrambled. They do no damage and they get instapopped.

Not really sure why the Gallente hull has hybrid optimal rather than falloff?



also this

That is true for Hobgoblins, but not Warriors or (to some degree) Hornets.

Isn't the caldari one just going to kill any frigate instantly within 60km?

I don't really like these. A destroyer with 2 bonuses to its 4 turrets? Drone damage projection is actually really really bad if the target isn't webbed and/or scrambled. They do no damage and they get instapopped.

That is true for Hobgoblins, but not Warriors or (to some degree) Hornets.

yes the drones will get slaughtered by frigs for sure drones need to get better base HP and t2 resists like ships get and more orbit velocity would help too.

yes the drones will get slaughtered by frigs for sure drones need to get better base HP and t2 resists like ships get and more orbit velocity would help too.

Pictures are out there. But when duality opens up for players new videos should be uploaded before the weekend is out.

Perhaps that's what the destroyer bonuses to drone HP are meant for...? Just tossing the idea out there.

If I'm not mistaken, this puts the new Caldari Missile destroyer in the 200 - 210 DPS at 60+ km range

Does this not negate everything you have already said about HML's, range and damage projection considering this is following the current trends and not the new path you guys were trying to lay down?

If I'm not mistaken, this puts the new Caldari Missile destroyer in the 200 - 210 DPS at 60+ km range

Does this not negate everything you have already said about HML's, range and damage projection considering this is following the current trends and not the new path you guys were trying to lay down?

Think these ships are meant to operate with precisions what would the range be with this type of ammo fitted?

I'm glad to see Minmatar will remain superior as usual.

(stop handing MWD bonuses out like candy, thanks in advance)

No, Light missiles are getting a boost to explosive velocity already this patch, and then this ship gets an added boost to hitting small fast targets

And i was wrong, it hits up to 260 dps at 57km w/o rigs/TCs

your incorrect

And i was wrong, it hits up to 260 dps at 57km w/o rigs/TCs

Ironically, this thing post changes is going to come awfully close to the drake in both dps and range with far less training time

Has nobody else noticed the huge buff to drone damage amplifiers?

Thrasher alpha wll eat it. Corm probably too.

You can't say that without providing links!!!

Where are they goddammit

No, Light missiles are getting a boost to explosive velocity already this patch, and then this ship gets an added boost to hitting small fast targets

And i was wrong, it hits up to 260 dps at 57km w/o rigs/TCs

Ironically, this thing post changes is going to come awfully close to the drake in both dps and range with far less training time

And be instapopped by anything that looks at it at that range.

Its actually in line with the difference between turret dessies and turret bcs. Coercer rocks in at 209 dps with max ramge ammo 41k optimal, and it doesn't even have a damage bonus. Dessies are meant to be high dps, its what hey are for.

I also noticed that I now have a reason to train Light Missiles.

Wait so why do the rest of the destros get two damage bonuses, but the amarr one gets a neut bonus? How does it not completely just replace the crucifier?

if only there were light sentry drones :)

why you are also going to get a worm?

I hope you mean sentinel....

Anyway considering ishkur is a frig murderer even without a drone damage bonus i think you seriously underestimate drones.

Except the drone boats, obv.

No, I've used them constantly, and then they get left at gates, or blown up, or the spend 90% of the fight chasing a frigate that is barely moving but won't drop out of their MWD orbit so they can actually track/shoot the stupid thing.

If drones could produce reliable, delayed DPS like missiles do, they would be much more viable, as is, they are ridiculous.

wut? The drone boats will out dps them all. Even not fitting any guns they will pull 300 dps. Theysuffers the normal drone drawbacks but dps is certainly not one of them

No, I've used them constantly, and then they get left at gates, or blown up, or the spend 90% of the fight chasing a frigate that is barely moving but won't drop out of their MWD orbit so they can actually track/shoot the stupid thing.

If drones could produce reliable, delayed DPS like missiles do, they would be much more viable, as is, they are ridiculous.

The Gallente destroyer doesnt cut it. It will be hard to make rails work on the Gallente dessy due to no tracking bonus. It is also the largest destroyer at 72m. And it only has 4 turrets out of 6 high slots. I'm not impressed.

I think it's probably more suitable for brawler type stuff, since it uses drones and can actually use blasters, unlike the catalyst, because it has a web.

* Drone Damage Amplifier I: CPU increased from 27 to 30, drone damage increased from 15 to 16%
* Drone Damage Amplifier II: CPU reduced from 32 to 30, drone damage increased from 19 to 23%

I think it's probably more suitable for brawler type stuff, since it uses drones and can actually use blasters, unlike the catalyst, because it has a web.

So tech i and tech ii version of the same module will have the same fitting?

If that was the case then a fall-off bonus would work better. The optimal range is suited for rails.

That's already the case with turret damage mods. T2 is better in every way.

I wouldnt be opposed to dropping the CPU on the T1 mod from 30 to 25.

GALLENTE DESTROYER:

Gallente are always about raw firepower, that's why this ship combines both turret and drone damage to achieve its goals. While the damage is lower than a Catalyst, remember that drone projection remains stable at much farther ranges (especially with drone damage amplifier changes below). On the downside, it has a limited dronebay next to the Amarr version, making it more difficult to replace lost drones.

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and HP per level
+5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
Role bonus:
+50% small hybrid turret optimal range
Slot layout: 6 H, 3 M, 3 L, 4 turrets
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
Signature radius: 72
Cargo capacity: 350

Gallente are always about raw firepower, that's why this ship combines both turret and drone damage to achieve its goals.

This is awesome, but I think it needs some tweaks:

1) If drones are about damage projection, then please just bonus this dessie for damage projection. Give it 2 drone bonuses, maybe (bonus 1) 10% drone damage AND (bonus 2) 15% drone MWD or Tracking and hitpoints. That way, we can stick 2x drone links on top to give it truly long range damage projection, with the MWD/tracking bonus to improve the damage application. Take off the hybrid bonus, and the turrets can just be used for destroyer defense while the drones are off far away doing their thing. Or hell, I'd just use small smartbombs lol.

2) Increase the drone bay! Honestly, there's no reason to give Amarr a larger drone bay with the same bandwith, since both of these ships rely on their drones for their damage application. If anything, the Gallente version should have 100 m3.

On a larger note about drones overall, there needs to be a pass over all drone mechanics, since no other race have to deal with issues like their "guns" being shot by gate guns, having their "guns" targeted and destroyed by the enemy, and so on. Also, we need to be able to see drone health inside the drone bay, and maybe the drone races can get innate bonuses to their ships that'd allow drone armor to be repaired in the drone bay.

This is why the drone boats are a nice break; you can get some versatility beyond "warp to zero and pulverize." It seems that the new idea is that the Amarr get to enjoy the versatility of drones, and Gallente just have a little extra space for replacement combat drones, because MOAR DPS.

Please reconsider this decision. If the idea is that combat drones are a particularly expensive form of ammo, then we'll want at least slightly bigger bays if we want to continue to enjoy the ability to switch out drone types depending on the situation.

incorrect all the T2 damage mods use less cpu than the meta 4's which are the only meaningful option as the rest are just crap
but the damage mods are all a mess anyway like 10 different dmg mods and the only useful ones are the T2's

How is that incorrect? t1 and t2 use the same cpu on both. There are no meta 4, sure, that doesn't make him incorrect.

GÇóAMARR DESTROYER:

The Amarr destroyer is designed to take down opposition through indirect means. On the downside, the damage is nothing to write home about, but the combination of energy disruption ability plus drone control makes it dangerous at shutting enemy frigates off, then finishing them properly when they're helpless. It also has quite a generous dronebay, for multiple drone replacements.

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and hitpoint per level
+20% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer range per level
Role bonus:
+25% to ship capacitor recharge rate
Slot layout: 6 H, 2 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750 / 950 / 850
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 600 / 370s / 1.62s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235 / 2.75 / 1700000 / 4.71s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 39km / 525 / 6
Sensor strength: 10 radar
Signature radius: 66
Cargo capacity: 300

GÇóMINMATAR DESTROYER:

This ship is unique among all Destroyers as it has a bonus that improves survivability - it is designed to zip around in the battlefield at high velocities while spewing missiles. As a downside however it's less efficient at hitting fast moving targets at greater ranges than the Caldari hull is.

Ship bonuses:
+5% to rocket and light missile explosion damage per level
15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
Role bonus:
+50% to rocket and light missile velocity
Slot layout: 7 H, 3 M, 3 L, 7 launchers
Fittings: 48 PWG, 200 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 850 / 800 / 800
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 450 / 290s / 1.55s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255 / 2.89 / 1600000 / 4.64s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 550 / 6
Sensor strength: 9 ladar
Signature radius: 60
Cargo capacity: 400

The amarr needs another mid for a cap booster if it plans on actually powering any nuets. The range bonus really isn't that spectacular on it.

The fact that a cap booster is required should sort of suggest that something is broken, surely. Also cap booster would pretty much mean the cap bonus is wasted/bad.

Or use some vamps ah!! i know shocking isn't it?

Or use some vamps ah!! i know shocking isn't it?

What do you plan on using these vamps on? Your ideal targets are frigs that start with less cap than you before you begin nueting. Nueting them dry also dries you up negating any cap advantage you would have.

Amarr

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and hitpoint per level
+20% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer range per level
Role bonus:
+25% to ship capacitor recharge rate
Slot layout: 6 H, 2 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750 / 950 / 850
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 600 / 370s / 1.62s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235 / 2.75 / 1700000 / 4.71s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 39km / 525 / 6
Sensor strength: 10 radar
Signature radius: 66
Cargo capacity: 300

Caldari

Ship bonuses:
+5% to rocket and light missile kinetic damage per level
+10% to rocket and light missile explosion velocity per level
Role bonus:
+50% to rocket and light missile velocity
Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M, 2 L, 8 launchers
Fittings: 45 PWG, 210 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 950 / 750 / 750
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 500 / 320s / 1.56s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 250 / 2.5 / 1900000 / 4.89s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 475 / 7
Sensor strength: 12 gravimetric
Signature radius: 69
Cargo capacity: 450

Gallente

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and HP per level
+5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
Role bonus:
+50% small hybrid turret optimal range
Slot layout: 6 H, 3 M, 3 L, 4 turrets
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
Signature radius: 72
Cargo capacity: 350

Ship bonuses:
+5% to rocket and light missile explosion damage per level
15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
Role bonus:
+50% to rocket and light missile velocity
Slot layout: 7 H, 3 M, 3 L, 7 launchers
Fittings: 48 PWG, 200 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 850 / 800 / 800
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 450 / 290s / 1.55s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255 / 2.89 / 1600000 / 4.64s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 550 / 6
Sensor strength: 9 ladar
Signature radius: 60
Cargo capacity: 400

* All light missile launcher fittings: CPU reduced by 4, PWG reduced by 2
* Drone Damage Amplifier I: CPU increased from 27 to 30, drone damage increased from 15 to 16%
* Drone Damage Amplifier II: CPU reduced from 32 to 30, drone damage increased from 19 to 23%

Gallente - kill the hybrid damage bonus. Give it a hybrid tracking bonus instead. Give it a fifth turret slot (4 * 1.25 = 5 anyways). It's CPU is too weak to consider drone upgrades in those two spare highs anyways.

Er, yes it is. They get some shots on the target, then they lag behind and get instapopped. For a drone destroyer I'd like to see very fast drones with high tracking that can do their orbit thing properly on actual moving targets.

Sure am looking forward to docking up after every fight to buy more drones (f yeah gallente).

Hmmm interesting, that's one way of putting it - it negates tracking issues with rails and give the boat some love. We'll have another math run at this after the week-end. Keep the constructive comments coming people.

Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaainz

Hmmm interesting, that's one way of putting it - it negates tracking issues with rails and give the boat some love. We'll have another math run at this after the week-end. Keep the constructive comments coming people.

Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaainz

They tried to make faster drones with high tracking, but in actual use, the drones kept overshooting the target, then MWDing back, overshooting, MWDing back, overshooting...

You get the idea -- if they get any faster than they already are, they never shoot at all, because they never come out of the pursuit mode.

Amarr hits with the power of 6 weapon mounts. Gallente hit with the power of 5 weapon mounts with range bonus (hybrid only) Amarr still hold a cap bonus and a nuet bonus over gals. At face value this seems unbalanced.

Ship bonuses:
+5% to rocket and light missile kinetic damage per level

No, Light missiles are getting a boost to explosive velocity already this patch, and then this ship gets an added boost to hitting small fast targets

And i was wrong, it hits up to 260 dps at 57km w/o rigs/TCs

Ironically, this thing post changes is going to come awfully close to the drake in both dps and range with far less training time

The bonuses laid out by these new ships are really ugly. They slap the traditional bonus styles in the face.

Another thing to consider would also be a drone speed bonus.

I see drones added to everything, but short range missiles are supposed to be amarr's second weapons platform. Are you phasing them out?

The caldari one is the only one that really looks any good. The minmatar one looks too powerful, and with serious overlap with interceptors. It looks seriously outside of design philosophy of destroyers. I could see a static speed bonus, (in line with minmatar) but a MWD sig reduction? Like interceptors? Like AFs? No good.

Oh, come on: you can't talk about how the Amarr gets six turret slots and then in the same breath talk about how the Amarr gets a neut bonus. Those neuts will use up at least two and probably three of those six high slots.

This whole thread is kind of ridiculous. If you take every comment that says "X is overpowered" and cancel it out with some other post that says "X is useless and weak" the entire thread would vanish. It's no wonder CCP ignores 90% of player input.

Ahem. Even with a reduced PG on the missile launchers, a destroyer pilot with maxed out fitting skills will have only 5,85 PG left after fitting 8 light launchers... So no speedmod. Or tank. Intentional?

The Caldari destroyer gets almost 80% more alpha than today's AML Caracal, and applies it better as well. It also gets really fantastic range, which means that it's able to take advantage of the full range of overheated bonused point range.

I cannot overstate how powerful this ship is going to be.

-Liang

the destroyer with light missles will be sniper so not needing a hugh tank also are you looking at tech 2 or tech 1 ?

but i think this ship is more set for rockets rather than missles still a damn good ship

A max skilled character will fit tech 2 (as is normal practice on existing destroyer hulls), and if Fozzie comes though with the tech 2 missile changes, it will be well worth it. A destroyer isnt really a sniper, even if it hits far for a small ship, thus it will need a small buffer to avoid beeing alphaed at least . And flying a combat ship without a speedmod? Forget it.

The new amarr ship is going to be a better drone boat than the gallente one

CCP Fozzie,

Please name one of these destroyers "the JEFFRAIDER"

thanks man

45 PWG

[list]

AMARR DESTROYER:

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and hitpoint per level
+20% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer range per level
Role bonus:
+25% to ship capacitor recharge rate

CALDARI DESTROYER:

Ship bonuses:
+5% to rocket and light missile kinetic damage per level
+10% to rocket and light missile explosion velocity per level
Role bonus:
+50% to rocket and light missile velocity

GALLENTE DESTROYER:

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and HP per level
+5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
Role bonus:
+50% small hybrid turret optimal range

MINMATAR DESTROYER:

Ship bonuses:
+5% to rocket and light missile explosion damage per level
15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
Role bonus:
+50% to rocket and light missile velocity

Oh, come on: you can't talk about how the Amarr gets six turret slots and then in the same breath talk about how the Amarr gets a neut bonus. Those neuts will use up at least two and probably three of those six high slots.

This whole thread is kind of ridiculous. If you take every comment that says "X is overpowered" and cancel it out with some other post that says "X is useless and weak" the entire thread would vanish. It's no wonder CCP ignores 90% of player input.

It's not really that big of a deal.

-Liang

the gal drone ship i want to see

GALLENTE DESTROYER:

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and HP per level
+1 max active drone per level
Role bonus:
+50% small hybrid turret optimal range
Slot layout: 5H, 3 M, 4 L, 4 turrets
Fittings: 60 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
Signature radius: 72
Cargo capacity: 350

I'm worried about server overload with this easy of a ship to get into and 10 drones. It would be better with a good damage bonus and drone tracking bonus

tidi can handle it fine...

Hmmm interesting, that's one way of putting it - it negates tracking issues with rails and give the boat some love. We'll have another math run at this after the week-end. Keep the constructive comments coming people.

Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaainz

tidi can handle it fine... and its still a hassle to train all the stuff up to v to take advantage of the potential dps...

edit:

well either that or make it 20% to damage and HP per lev
and add a 7.5% to tracking per lev...

take away the turret bonus...
and reduce to something like 3 turrets that can be used...

this is the raw dps you are looking for...

Ya 2 mids on amarr kills it. It does less damage and has no ability to catch anything. You can either out run it or warp away from it. That was a main issue with coer.

Since we are thinking out of the box on these destroyers...

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone HP per level
+5% to drone damage per level
Role bonus:
Can fit Drone Control Units (reduced fitting cost)
Slot layout: 5 H, 3 M, 3 L, 0 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
Signature radius: 72
Cargo capacity: 350

the caldari has more speed than the gallente one ?!
and the amarr seems better than the gallente.
I feel that, again, gallente ship will be a niche thing...

The new minmatar ship is going to be a better missile boat than the caldari one.

CCP removes the single damage bonus on one ship, just to grant it on another ship!
Why not just give that damange bonus for all damage types, like you do it for the minmatar one.

edit: I just compared those two ships together, not all four

Time has come to spam this forum section with another sticky - this time on the new destroyers coming out for winter.

The new destroyers keep the same role as existing hulls - anti-frigate platform. However they use alternate weapon systems to reach that goal, which means drones and missiles. Next to the existing destroyers, they have slightly less mobility, more signature radius, less capacitor but have a bit better EHP and increased damage projection due to the weapon types they use. Price will be the same than for existing destroyers.


[list]

AMARR DESTROYER:

The Amarr destroyer is designed to take down opposition through indirect means. On the downside, the damage is nothing to write home about, but the combination of energy disruption ability plus drone control makes it dangerous at shutting enemy frigates off, then finishing them properly when they're helpless. It also has quite a generous dronebay, for multiple drone replacements.

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and hitpoint per level
+20% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer range per level
Role bonus:
+25% to ship capacitor recharge rate
Slot layout: 6 H, 2 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, 3 launchers
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750 / 950 / 850
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 600 / 370s / 1.62s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235 / 2.75 / 1700000 / 4.71s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 39km / 525 / 6
Sensor strength: 10 radar
Signature radius: 66
Cargo capacity: 300

GALLENTE DESTROYER:

Gallente are always about raw firepower, that's why this ship combines both turret and drone damage to achieve its goals. While the damage is lower than a Catalyst, remember that drone projection remains stable at much farther ranges (especially with drone damage amplifier changes below). On the downside, it has a limited dronebay next to the Amarr version, making it more difficult to replace lost drones.

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and HP per level
+5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
Role bonus:
+50% small hybrid turret optimal range
Slot layout: 6 H, 3 M, 3 L, 4 turrets
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
Signature radius: 72
Cargo capacity: 350

MODULE CHANGES:

Balancing these ships made us realize some further tweaks were needed on some modules to make these destroyers, and as an extend, some other ships / setups more useful.

* All light missile launcher fittings: CPU reduced by 4, PWG reduced by 2
* Drone Damage Amplifier I: CPU increased from 27 to 30, drone damage increased from 15 to 16%
* Drone Damage Amplifier II: CPU reduced from 32 to 30, drone damage increased from 19 to 23%

The Caldari destroyer gets almost 80% more alpha than today's AML Caracal, and applies it better as well. It also gets really fantastic range, which means that it's able to take advantage of the full range of overheated bonused point range.

I cannot overstate how powerful this ship is going to be.

-Liang

Since we are thinking out of the box on these destroyers...

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone HP per level
+5% to drone damage per level
Role bonus:
Can fit Drone Control Units (reduced fitting cost)
Slot layout: 5 H, 3 M, 3 L, 0 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
Signature radius: 72
Cargo capacity: 350

Gallente are always about raw firepower, that's why this ship combines both turret and drone damage to achieve its goals. While the damage is lower than a Catalyst, remember that drone projection remains stable at much farther ranges (especially with drone damage amplifier changes below). On the downside, it has a limited dronebay next to the Amarr version, making it more difficult to replace lost drones

I'm still lost as to how this statement doesn't contradict itself on 2 or 3 levels



Gallente are for raw firepower, has less DPS/applicable dps than Catalyst/others.

Drone projection remains stable at far ranges, uses shortest effective range guns. (50% to small hybrids puts it out to what, 4km instead of 1?)

Gallente race specializes in drones, worse dronebay and same bandwidth as Amarr ship.

Then make a new module?

Only because it will be an easy rock to the scissors of your uber-boosted T1 missile frigs...

All I can think of is CCP Fozzie's quote about Veritas poisoning his coffee when I see suggestions that try to get around drone ship issues by just putting more drones on the field. That and curiosity over the reasoning behind solving drone DPS application issues by adding more unapplied drone DPS.

Just for the hell of it... some sample hull names.

Amarr: Oblate
Minmatar: Harpoon
Gallente: CetoCaca
Caldari: Skua

Hmmm interesting, that's one way of putting it - it negates tracking issues with rails and give the boat some love. We'll have another math run at this after the week-end. Keep the constructive comments coming people.

Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaainz

Giving the Gallente destroyer a possiblity of 10 drones is a bad idea, not due to server lag issues or anything wrong with fielding 10 light drones, but the fact that that will give you a 50 mbit 50 bay minimum, and thus the medium scout drones can be used.

This will take its intended role away (anti frigate platform)

As an alternative, i'm suggesting a role bonus change: Give it an increased warp disruptor range
Role bonus: 50% bonus to warp disruptor range

This will keep the gallente (drone) pilots happy and in line with its racials (although i do think you should consider dropping the mids to 2 the same as the amarr one then

Isn't the caldari one just going to kill any frigate instantly within 60km?

In other words, it's going to be a valid anti-frigate ship.

Still I'm kind of unimpressed with the slot layout of the new Caldari destroyer. Why only three med slots? Caldari are renowned for having more medium slots than other races, all the time. Having only three meds, and then two lows, means it won't be able to really fit any kind of defense whatsoever- I'm aware that destroyers aren't ever meant to be capable of shrugging off everything ever, but really? I'm pretty sure that there are going to be frigates that will be more resilient than this ship.

The Minmatar one isn't even worth commenting on, really. Why are all these Minmatar ships being turned into missile boats? You guys gonna completely phase-out missiles as a primarily-Caldari weapons system?

These are all bad.

The Amarr one looks like some kind of fat Sentinal / Vengeance hybrid ship with less tank than a Punisher. I don't like it's mixed weapons systems. One thing that definitely should be mandatory on this one is a bonus to armor resistances, some decent armor HP, and in my opinion, a smaller signature radius than the other races.

The Gallente one is just... a Catalyst with less rails and more Drones, for whatever reason that is... What does that ship bring to the table that a Catalyst doesn't already do aside from drones? It needs more of a role, make it fully dedicated to drones like the Tristan or make it an active tanking brawler like the Incursus, I says.

The Caldari one.... well, I'm surprised it doesn't have more mid-slots, actually, but that's a good thing. It's going to be slow, but it's damage and range are going to be ludicrously over-powered. This is truly going to be the new Drake. People who say "ohh, but it won't have nearly the tank of the Drake!!11" Those people are truly, truly stupid. It's a destroyer, why would it have close to the tank of a Drake? The point is it's going to be a scary scary missile platform with stupid damage and damage projection, all on a tiny little 10 Million ISK Destroyer hull. Anyone who can't grasp this can sit on it. I mean, look at what a group of Condors is capable of doing these days! It's funny, but a few Condors are one of the scariest things you can run into right now.

Amarr Destroyer:

I think after the ooo's and ahhhh's wear off from the novelty - most people will realize that this ship isn't as good as they think it is. Let's review:

The nos/nuets will have a range of 12km. Pulse lasers also will also have a range of 10 - 12km with Scorch. The hit point bonus for the drones is overkill. If the tank on the destroyer lasts longer then three flights of light drones, your opponent is really doing something wrong. Lastly, drone damage will range from 100 - 125 before Drone mods. That isn't alot of projection beyond 12km. Even then - the Drone damage bonus REALLY infringes on the Gallente. Lastly - three launchers?!? I thought we were trying to move away from that. I'm a fully skilled bitter vet. But it isn't very Amarr noob friendly at all.

In summary, we have a scary ship at under 12 km that is not very good beyond that. Here's my fix:

Lose the drone bonus. 75m^3 for a small ship is novelty enough. Give the ship an optimal bonus instead. Upgrade it to 4 turrets. This gives you a ship that can at least project significant damage. It may not have the firepower the upgraded Coercer offers - but it will be immune to one of the Coercer's glaring weaknesses - frigates getting under it's guns.

These are all bad.

The Amarr one looks like some kind of fat Sentinal / Vengeance hybrid ship with less tank than a Punisher. I don't like it's mixed weapons systems. One thing that definitely should be mandatory on this one is a bonus to armor resistances, some decent armor HP, and in my opinion, a smaller signature radius than the other races.

The Minmatar one isn't even worth commenting on, really. Why are all these Minmatar ships being turned into missile boats? You guys gonna completely phase-out missiles as a primarily-Caldari weapons system?

Yeah, I'd prefer to see these new destroyers be part of the combat line, with more defensive ability (low/mid slots). You can always add an almost identical glass cannon down the track a bit. Do I think this is going to happen? No. Had to say it though.

If I'm not mistaken, this puts the new Caldari Missile destroyer in the 210 - 260 DPS at 60+ km range

Does this not negate everything you have already said about HML's, range and damage projection considering this is following the current trends and not the new path you guys were trying to lay down?

Arty thrasher will have nearly 25% lower alpha strike at 20km shorter optimal and more damage reduction from tracking compared to the double boost to the missiles this patch seems to be offering.

Wait a sec. 4 turrets + optimal bonus... doesn't that make it a crappier Gallente destroyer?