EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3

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Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:21:00 - [721] Originally by: Kaylana Syi You're an idiot with blatent disregard for this games mechanics. Not only do you say a rupture is better at long range than a thorax but you say the thorax needs it's UBER damage to kill anything. Well sir a Thorax fighting a ranged rupture will NEVER die because a Thorax will NEVER forced to stay in a fight. Go home and take your lam'a'rax you claim to have with you.. Most 1v1's end with somebody running. That's the nature of a lot of folks' mindsets anymore. We're assuming both targets stay until one dies for the sake of numbers. Give a rupture and a thorax each an interceptor to work with, and things get really interesting, don't they? Unfortunately, too many factors come into play at that point to really argue the "overpowered" issue.
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:22:00 - [722] Dont play stupid. Show me the numbers how long range thorax is twice weaker then long range rupture. Points is that you claim it is, and I say its not.
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:22:00 - [723] Dont play stupid. Show me the numbers how long range thorax is twice weaker then long range rupture. Points is that you claim it is, and I say its not.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:23:00 - [724] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 26/08/2005 20:25:14 Garreck, answer my questions pretty please. The one about how exactly 8 heavy drones are needed and ten mediums are not enough, and the few others you didn't reply to. Thanks. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty boy. --- I have the scientific evidence that some people can write but cannot read.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:23:00 - [725] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 26/08/2005 20:25:14 Garreck, answer my questions pretty please. The one about how exactly 8 heavy drones are needed and ten mediums are not enough, and the few others you didn't reply to. Thanks. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty boy. In Rust We Trust
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:30:00 - [726] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 26/08/2005 20:30:09 Originally by: Garreck Most 1v1's end with somebody running. That's the nature of a lot of folks' mindsets anymore. We're assuming both targets stay until one dies for the sake of numbers. That is so wrong, getting rid of the possibility to warp out while testing something is not, ever, going to give an evidence about anything. You just can't assume that at all. Reason ? Because in pvp you have to make sure that you target don't run away, no thorax pilot is going to be kitted to death running after a mwd rupture, which is your argument about the weakness of the thorax. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- I have the scientific evidence that some people can write but cannot read.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:30:00 - [727] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 26/08/2005 20:30:09 Originally by: Garreck Most 1v1's end with somebody running. That's the nature of a lot of folks' mindsets anymore. We're assuming both targets stay until one dies for the sake of numbers. That is so wrong, getting rid of the possibility to warp out while testing something is not, ever, going to give an evidence about anything. You just can't assume that at all. Reason ? Because in pvp you have to make sure that you target don't run away, no thorax pilot is going to be kitted to death running after a mwd rupture, which is your argument about the weakness of the thorax. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Balazs Simon	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:32:00 - [728] Rax is good as it is... do not tuch it... - New sig coming soon..
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:32:00 - [729] Originally by: Naughty Boy Garreck, answer my questions pretty please. The one about how exactly 8 heavy drones are needed and ten mediums are not enough, and the few others you didn't reply to. I've answered why 8 are needed several times, actually. The extreme up-close dps is needed because it has to catch up on damage that it's been taking on the approach without being able to return any. I don't know how else to word it. Why are 10 mediums not enough? Because that's half the damage of 8 heavies. It's just not enough to get the job done. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:32:00 - [730] Originally by: Naughty Boy Garreck, answer my questions pretty please. The one about how exactly 8 heavy drones are needed and ten mediums are not enough, and the few others you didn't reply to. I've answered why 8 are needed several times, actually. The extreme up-close dps is needed because it has to catch up on damage that it's been taking on the approach without being able to return any. I don't know how else to word it. Why are 10 mediums not enough? Because that's half the damage of 8 heavies. It's just not enough to get the job done.

Balazs Simon Gallente Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:32:00 - [731] Rax is good as it is... do not tuch it... - POST WITH YOUR MAIN! New sig coming soon... This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the DICE Corporation.
Adamus TorK	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:33:00 - [732] chill guys, and adapt --------------------------------- Fear the arrows of the HUNs!
Adamus TorK Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:33:00 - [733] chill guys, and adapt ---------------------------------
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:37:00 - [734] Originally by: Naughty Boy Reason ? Because in pvp you have to make sure that you target don't run away, no thorax pilot is going to be kitted to death running after a mwd rupture, which is your argument about the weakness of the thorax. Actually, with some clever piloting, a Rupture pilot can easily kite within scramble range. Remember: as long as you keep outside of 2km (avoiding blasters) and move faster than an mwd 'rax (avoiding being webbed and outrunning the drones by default) then the thorax pilot has no choice but to be "kited to death." Just fit a 20km disruptor and it's game over for mr. overpowered thorax. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:37:00 - [735] Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 26/08/2005 20:37:39 So with no arguments from the tother side, we all agree that thorax fittgin with rails is as good as rupture then? Ok, so why would thorax need more drones then rupture? Argument about approach is totaly useless. I can say that rupture fitted with ac and thorax is with rails, and count how much damage i'll do with rails before rupture catches up. Once again Rupture and thorax are good long range Why thorax has more drones then rupture for close range?
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:37:00 - [736] Originally by: Naughty Boy Reason ? Because in pvp you have to make sure that you target don't run away, no thorax pilot is going to be kitted to death running after a mwd rupture, which is your argument about the weakness of the thorax. Actually, with some clever piloting, a Rupture pilot can easily kite within scramble range. Remember: as long as you keep outside of 2km (avoiding blasters) and move faster than an mwd 'rax (avoiding being webbed and outrunning the drones by default) then the thorax pilot has no choice but to be "kited to death." Just fit a 20km disruptor and it's game over for mr. overpowered thorax.
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:37:00 - [737] Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 26/08/2005 20:37:39 So with no arguments from the tother side, we all agree that thorax fittgin with rails is as good as rupture then? Ok, so why would thorax need more drones then rupture? Argument about approach is totaly useless. I can say that rupture fitted with ac and thorax is with rails, and count how much damage i'll do with rails before rupture catches up. Once again Rupture and thorax are good long range Why thorax has more drones then rupture for close range?
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:47:00 - [738] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 26/08/2005 20:37:39 So with no arguments from the tother side, we all agree that thorax fittgin with rails is as good as rupture then? My word against yours is "no argument from the other side?" I've already said that a thorax will have to dedicate more low slots and cpu to grid upgrades, where the rupture can add damage mods and tracking mods which, you'll find, quite easily tip the damage balance to the rupture at range. A range that will nullify the use of the drones. Rendering your argument useless because no smart thorax pilot is going to deny himself the firepower of his primary weapon. Which I've said before. But we're going in circles. You can take my word for it, you can run the numbers for yourself, or you can write me off as "wrong" without bothering. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:47:00 - [739] Originally by: Nomen Nescio Edited by: Nomen Nescio on 26/08/2005 20:37:39 So with no arguments from the tother side, we all agree that thorax fittgin with rails is as good as rupture then? My word against yours is "no argument from the other side?" I've already said that a thorax will have to dedicate more low slots and cpu to grid upgrades, where the rupture can add damage mods and tracking mods which, you'll find, quite easily tip the damage balance to the rupture at range. A range that will nullify the use of the drones. Rendering your argument useless because no smart thorax pilot is going to deny himself the firepower of his primary weapon. Which I've said before. But we're going in circles. You can take my word for it, you can run the numbers for yourself, or you can write me off as "wrong" without bothering.
Turin	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:57:00 - [740] OMG! Quick! Someone call a WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULENCE. Stop the whining. STFU. Go play the damn game. Thorax is fine.

Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:57:00 - [741] OMG! Quick! Someone call a WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULENCE. Stop the whining. STFU. Go play the damn game. Thorax is fine. ________________________________________________________
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:01:00 - [742] Originally by: Adamus TorK chill guys, and adapt Sorry but there is no adapt argument that will fly in this case. Thorax is severly imbalanced. Basically what your saying is the Thoraxes are grossly overpowered but like it or not shut up. Who made you king? Thorax users DON'T have to adapt because they have the full montey despite what the peanut gallery says. Currently, without a plate, the Thorax is still diverse, as much as any cruiser can be. But when it comes to Short range let me quote this dude Garreck : Quote: extreme up-close dps Yet he nor anyone else has alluded to WHY a cruiser deserves THIS MUCH brutal damage and diversity. No cruiser has it so why should the Rax? Noone can answer that question. If the Thorax should have extreme damage up close then a 720mm Rupture should have extreme damage at range. This is clearly not the case. 650mm suck even more. 650mm IIs are pizz poor when compared to even dual 180 IIs. 650 IIs will put you inside scramble range and that is where the rax will start to bbq ur fries. 720mm IIs severly gimp your ship for pvp for anything but gatecamping for indies and nub frigs. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:01:00 - [743] Originally by: Adamus TorK chill guys, and adapt Sorry but there is no adapt argument that will fly in this case. Thorax is severly imbalanced. Basically what your saying is the Thoraxes are grossly overpowered but like it or not shut up. Who made you king? Thorax users DON'T have to adapt because they have the full montey despite what the peanut gallery says. Currently, without a plate, the Thorax is still diverse, as much as any cruiser can be. But when it comes to Short range let me quote this dude Garreck : Quote: extreme up-close dps Yet he nor anyone else has alluded to WHY a cruiser deserves THIS MUCH brutal damage and diversity. No cruiser has it so why should the Rax? Noone can answer that question. If the Thorax should have extreme damage up close then a 720mm Rupture should have extreme damage at range. This is clearly not the case. 650mm suck even more. 650mm IIs are pizz poor when compared to even dual 180 IIs. 650 IIs will put you inside scramble range and that is where the rax will start to bbq ur fries. 720mm IIs severly gimp your ship for pvp for anything but gatecamping for indies and nub frigs. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:04:00 - [744] Originally by: Turin OMG! Quick! Someone call a WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULENCE. Stop the whining. STFU. Go play the damn game. Thorax is fine. what is your definition of fine? jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:04:00 - [745] Originally by: Turin OMG! Quick! Someone call a WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULENCE. Stop the whining. STFU. Go play the damn game. Thorax is fine. what is your definition of fine? Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Christopher Multsanti	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:07:00 - [746] 15 pages, hmmmmm. Why dont we just agree that the Thorax is overpowered and let CCP decdide how to nerf it. PS. check my vid, its in my sig. Thorax FTW!
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:07:00 - [747] 15 pages, hmmmmm. Why dont we just agree that the Thorax is overpowered and let CCP decdide how to nerf it. PS. check my vid, its in my sig. It's great being Amarr that flys Minmintar aint it? EVIL SYNNs > Bob are the best, we have to pay them to use the plexs...
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:08:00 - [748] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Yet he nor anyone else has alluded to WHY a cruiser deserves THIS MUCH brutal damage Actually, I have. Rupture has lower dps because it has more seconds to be doing its damage. Thorax has higher dps because it has fewer seconds to be doing its damage in. Do you see? If a rupture could do a thorax's dps at the range that a rupture can do it, nobody would stand a chance in hell because you'd never get close. With the thorax, you can vie for tactical superiority (ie, deny him the ability to get close) and hope to inflict as much damage as possible before he DOES get close. You keep the thorax at arms' length, it loses. You let it get close, you lose. 50 damage per second for 10 seconds is 500 damage. 100 damage per second for 5 seconds is 500 damage. OMG...but 100 dps is TWICE 50 dps!! That's not fair! Well...if you only have half as long to be doing said damage, maybe that's not as unfair a number as everyone thinks. My argument is simply that damage inflicted on the thorax before it can even open fire quite justifies the amount of damage a thorax can deal at close range. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:08:00 - [749] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Yet he nor anyone else has alluded to WHY a cruiser deserves THIS MUCH brutal damage Actually, I have. Rupture has lower dps because it has more seconds to be doing its damage. Thorax has higher dps because it has fewer seconds to be doing its damage in. Do you see? If a rupture could do a thorax's dps at the range that a rupture can do it, nobody would stand a chance in hell because you'd never get close. With the thorax, you can vie for tactical superiority (ie, deny him the ability to get close) and hope to inflict as much damage as possible before he DOES get close. You keep the thorax at arms' length, it loses. You let it get close, you lose. 50 damage per second for 10 seconds is 500 damage. 100 damage per second for 5 seconds is 500 damage. OMG...but 100 dps is TWICE 50 dps!! That's not fair! Well...if you only have half as long to be doing said damage, maybe that's not as unfair a number as everyone thinks. My argument is simply that damage inflicted on the thorax before it can even open fire quite justifies the amount of damage a thorax can deal at close range.
Will Basthard	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:10:00 - [750] Originally by: Turin OMG! Quick! Someone call a WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULENCE. Stop the whining. STFU. Go play the damn game. Thorax is fine. I been following this thread for days. What most don't realize is that we all want the thorax to stay the same but realize that in doing so they would need massively boost all cruisers. This is a fat chance in hell to come to pass. Thus, Thorax needs the quick fix. Everyone will have to adapt to the new thorax. Its been far too long for this ship to be untouched from the bat of tomB. I say good riddance to 200m3 and hello to my collection of Caldari cruisers sitting in storage for the day I can actually have a change in hades to beat 'Rax pilot mono y mono. My skills don't suck but when you take even a blackbird vs a Thorax the day usually ends up w. 8 heavies giving you a short trip to a pod. ------



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