EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3

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Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:03:00 - [661] Originally by: Naughty Boy * keep the plates, remove the drone bay: The blaster-thorax becomes viable and desirableagain as it has to fit blasters to be a close range boat (needing damage and not able to rely only on the drone bay). Plate setup still beat gank setup, which mean longer and more enjoyable fight. Thorax can still heavily outdamage any cruiser at close range and even break a dual rep apoc tank alone. Erm... when you fit 1600mm plate, on a rax you can't fit med blasters.. so that doesn't bring back the blaster-rax .. unless your planning on making it so the rax can fit 1600mm plate and med blasters.. but then it would still leave things overpowered. The problem is clearly the plate, and the majority of people asking for the rax, drone bay to be nerfed are in fact trying to hide the problem of the plate.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:06:00 - [662] Originally by: Toshiro Khan But isn't that there the problem? being as 1600mm plate is for battleships and not cruisers. But because some bright spark had the idea of fitting it by using small guns the ball game changed. That is not a problem, that is a solution of cruiser users for cruiser users. And fyi, frigates are much more hurt by this than battleships, exception being the thorax. Ok ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan If you remove the plate, the rax loses its megatank.. and since the damage isn't insta damage like that of a gank-a-geddon (drone flight time.. etc) plus the rax because vunrable on its way to its target it levels things out. It does not LEVEL it out, it RULES it out. Ok ? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- I have the scientific evidence that some people can write but cannot read.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:06:00 - [663] Originally by: Toshiro Khan But isn't that there the problem? being as 1600mm plate is for battleships and not cruisers. But because some bright spark had the idea of fitting it by using small guns the ball game changed. That is not a problem, that is a solution of cruiser users for cruiser users. And fyi, frigates are much more hurt by this than battleships, exception being the thorax. Ok ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan If you remove the plate, the rax loses its megatank.. and since the damage isn't insta damage like that of a gank-a-geddon (drone flight time.. etc) plus the rax because vunrable on its way to its target it levels things out. It does not LEVEL it out, it RULES it out. Ok ? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:09:00 - [664] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 26/08/2005 15:09:19 Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... when you fit 1600mm plate, on a rax you can't fit med blasters.. so that doesn't bring back the blaster-rax .. unless your planning on making it so the rax can fit 1600mm plate and med blasters.. but then it would still leave things overpowered. Small blasters dude, small neutron are the 1600mm plate alternative to med electron. Or fit a smaller plate and bigger weapons. Originally by: Toshiro Khan The problem is clearly the plate, and the majority of people asking for the rax, drone bay to be nerfed are in fact trying to hide the problem of the plate. Seriously, you make me want to cry. Why don't you give a reason, ONCE, instead of hammering this thread with this affirmation. Prove IT damnit! Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- I have the scientific evidence that some people can write but cannot read.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:09:00 - [665] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 26/08/2005 15:09:19 Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... when you fit 1600mm plate, on a rax you can't fit med blasters.. so that doesn't bring back the blaster-rax .. unless your planning on making it so the rax can fit 1600mm plate and med blasters.. but then it would still leave things overpowered. Small blasters dude, small neutron are the 1600mm plate alternative to med electron. Or fit a smaller plate and bigger weapons. Originally by: Toshiro Khan The problem is clearly the plate, and the majority of people asking for the rax, drone bay to be nerfed are in fact trying to hide the problem of the plate. Seriously, you make me want to cry. Why don't you give a reason, ONCE, instead of hammering this thread with this affirmation. Prove IT damnit! Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:12:00 - [666] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan But isn't that there the problem? being as 1600mm plate is for battleships and not cruisers. But because some bright spark had the idea of fitting it by using small guns the ball game changed. That is not a problem, that is a solution of cruiser users for cruiser users. And fyi, frigates are much more hurt by this than battleships, exception being the thorax. Ok ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan If you remove the plate, the rax loses its megatank.. and since the damage isn't insta damage like that of a gank-a-geddon (drone flight time.. etc) plus the rax because vunrable on its way to its target it levels things out. It does not LEVEL it out, it RULES it out. Ok ? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly.
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:12:00 - [667] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan But isn't that there the problem? being as 1600mm plate is for battleships and not cruisers. But because some bright spark had the idea of fitting it by using small guns the ball game changed. That is not a problem, that is a solution of cruiser users for cruiser users. And fyi, frigates are much more hurt by this than battleships, exception being the thorax. Ok ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan If you remove the plate, the rax loses its megatank.. and since the damage isn't insta damage like that of a gank-a-geddon (drone flight time.. etc) plus the rax because vunrable on its way to its target it levels things out. It does not LEVEL it out, it RULES it out. Ok ? Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly.
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:15:00 - [668] Quote: No. There is just a need for people to acknowledge this simple logic: * remove the plates, keep the drone bay: Tanking becomes useless against, back to ganking area. Blaster range is doomed, navigation is useless as when you are moving, you are not doing damage and you die. The heavy drones are useless for a thorax that will die in 20 seconds, when getting hammered from outside 15km. Thorax is doomed, and that's with its drone bay untouched. * keep the plates, remove the drone bay: The blaster-thorax becomes viable and desirableagain as it has to fit blasters to be a close range boat (needing damage and not able to rely only on the drone bay). Plate setup still beat gank setup, which mean longer and more enjoyable fight. Thorax can still heavily outdamage any cruiser at close range and even break a dual rep apoc tank alone. I agree with the second one. Removing it outright is absolutely over the top. Quote: If you remove the plates, no close range cruiser will ever be able to shoot 8 heavy drones, do you understand that ? Close range thorax in a plate-free world will beat any close range cruiser. incidentally, it will die to gank setups, as every other close range cruiser. We will only see cruisers in mid range gank setup. If the thorax is wearing light weapons, thats just not the case. Especially slow traversing ogres. Wish you would try it :/ Quote: I think that you didn't factor in the equation that other cruisers also would lose the plate. Ok ? No - tbh I didn't factor in loss of plate to the game, since it won't happen. As you mentioned up above, longer battles == better. The plates have increased the role of cruisers and battlecruisers across the board. Give them all a speed shot in the arm and they are starting to be a very attractive platform. It keeps gate ganks from outright slaughtering noobs as often. Etc. On the whole I support plates, but that is another argument, for another mindlessly long thread. Quote: As i showed in another post at your request, swapping the vexor and the thorax drone bay will make the vexor bonus useless and the thorax will lose around 25% of its drone damage, which isn't very much (but still something). If you change one major thing, something tells me they could adjust the vexor bonus if need be...but there wouldn't really be one...could just fly a slew of mediums. Brass tacks. Nerfing the thorax down to a 50 drone bay, I don't see that ever happening. Nerfing the thorax drone bay without shifting the volume to another gallente ship, equally not happening. Proceed from there towards a solution that makes sense.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:15:00 - [669] Quote: No. There is just a need for people to acknowledge this simple logic: * remove the plates, keep the drone bay: Tanking becomes useless against, back to ganking area. Blaster range is doomed, navigation is useless as when you are moving, you are not doing damage and you die. The heavy drones are useless for a thorax that will die in 20 seconds, when getting hammered from outside 15km. Thorax is doomed, and that's with its drone bay untouched. * keep the plates, remove the drone bay: The blaster-thorax becomes viable and desirableagain as it has to fit blasters to be a close range boat (needing damage and not able to rely only on the drone bay). Plate setup still beat gank setup, which mean longer and more enjoyable fight. Thorax can still heavily outdamage any cruiser at close range and even break a dual rep apoc tank alone. I agree with the second one. Removing it outright is absolutely over the top. Quote: If you remove the plates, no close range cruiser will ever be able to shoot 8 heavy drones, do you understand that ? Close range thorax in a plate-free world will beat any close range cruiser. incidentally, it will die to gank setups, as every other close range cruiser. We will only see cruisers in mid range gank setup. If the thorax is wearing light weapons, thats just not the case. Especially slow traversing ogres. Wish you would try it :/ Quote: I think that you didn't factor in the equation that other cruisers also would lose the plate. Ok ? No - tbh I didn't factor in loss of plate to the game, since it won't happen. As you mentioned up above, longer battles == better. The plates have increased the role of cruisers and battlecruisers across the board. Give them all a speed shot in the arm and they are starting to be a very attractive platform. It keeps gate ganks from outright slaughtering noobs as often. Etc. On the whole I support plates, but that is another argument, for another mindlessly long thread. Quote: As i showed in another post at your request, swapping the vexor and the thorax drone bay will make the vexor bonus useless and the thorax will lose around 25% of its drone damage, which isn't very much (but still something). If you change one major thing, something tells me they could adjust the vexor bonus if need be...but there wouldn't really be one...could just fly a slew of mediums. Brass tacks. Nerfing the thorax down to a 50 drone bay, I don't see that ever happening. Nerfing the thorax drone bay without shifting the volume to another gallente ship, equally not happening. Proceed from there towards a solution that makes sense. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:17:00 - [670] The Thorax is brutal without 1600mm plate. You can fit Heavy Electron II's, a 400mm plate and Medium repairer II, or Heavy Electron II's, a 800mm plate and small repairer II. Either way you can easily do 500 DPS thanks to the 8 heavy drones while having up to 3K armour (\_/) (O.o) (> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on"

Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:17:00 - [671] The Thorax is brutal without 1600mm plate. You can fit Heavy Electron II's, a 400mm plate and Medium repairer II, or Heavy Electron II's, a 800mm plate and small repairer II. Either way you can easily do 500 DPS thanks to the 8 heavy drones while having up to 3K armour ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:19:00 - [672] Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates cruisers mounting frigates guns are the bane of frigates, t1 and t2 alike, much more than cruisers mounting cruiser guns. Does this make sense to you ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly. That is where i stop replying to you. I tried enough, believe what you want. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- I have the scientific evidence that some people can write but cannot read.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:19:00 - [673] Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates cruisers mounting frigates guns are the bane of frigates, t1 and t2 alike, much more than cruisers mounting cruiser guns. Does this make sense to you ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly. That is where i stop replying to you. I tried enough, believe what you want. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:20:00 - [674] Quote: If you change one major thing, something tells me they could adjust the vexor bonus if need be...but there wouldn't really be one...could just fly a slew of mediums. I didn't think that out well - but anyway, adjust the vexor bonuses to match a 200-225ish drone bay.
Caeden Nicomachean The Older Gamers	Posted - 2005.08.26 15:20:00 - [675] Quote: If you change one major thing, something tells me they could adjust the vexor bonus if need be...but there wouldn't really be one...could just fly a slew of mediums. I didn't think that out well - but anyway, adjust the vexor bonuses to match a 200-225ish drone bay. --- 25 or over? Join www.theoldergamers.com
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.08.26 17:56:00 - [676] Edited by: j0sephine on 26/08/2005 17:59:41 Well, just to thrown in some practical results of another silly experiment... Moa, 1600mm plate, 2 armour hardeners, damage mod; 4x 150mm rails, 1 missile launcher, 1 medium smartbomb; afterburner, warp disruptor, 2x web (might replace second web with small cap injector but the result is hardly spectacular. might drop the damage mod for grid/cap module to fit/run mwd and rest of the gear) results: can't keep distance from Thorax. webs will stop it at ~10 km but that's short enough for her to engage nos and kill Moa's cap before the smartbomb + guns + moa's drones deal enough damage to either drones or Thorax herself. Over 5k of hardened armour lasts ~60-90 seconds once the drones and Thorax start having fun with it. (can't use MWD to stay out of Thorax' range either, because Moa is #1 slower #2 heavier #3 doesn't get the MWD cap reduction bonus so runs out of cap first and becomes easy prey. if you fit the nos on the Moa to counter cap drain, you're left with couple of tiny guns vs 8 heavy drones with some 3.5k of hp total, and even more than that on Thorax herself. kind of throws the wrench in all the "it's balanced just fit a smartbomb" "it's balanced just stay out of range" "it's balanced just go for drones first" suggested ways of defense... as far as you're flying Caldari "best" cruiser, anyway -.o edit: and on sidenote, the fact Moa makes far more effective armour tank than shield tank is effin' sad and bordering on ridiculous ¼¼;;
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2005.08.26 17:56:00 - [677] Edited by: j0sephine on 26/08/2005 17:59:41 Well, just to thrown in some practical results of another silly experiment... Moa, 1600mm plate, 2 armour hardeners, damage mod; 4x 150mm rails, 1 missile launcher, 1 medium smartbomb; afterburner, warp disruptor, 2x web (might replace second web with small cap injector but the result is hardly spectacular. might drop the damage mod for grid/cap module to fit/run mwd and rest of the gear) results: can't keep distance from Thorax. webs will stop it at ~10 km but that's short enough for her to engage nos and kill Moa's cap before the smartbomb + guns + moa's drones deal enough damage to either drones or Thorax herself. Over 5k of hardened armour lasts ~60-90 seconds once the drones and Thorax start having fun with it. (can't use MWD to stay out of Thorax' range either, because Moa is #1 slower #2 heavier #3 doesn't get the MWD cap reduction bonus so runs out of cap first and becomes easy prey. if you fit the nos on the Moa to counter cap drain, you're left with couple of tiny guns vs 8 heavy drones with some 3.5k of hp total, and even more than that on Thorax herself. kind of throws the wrench in all the "it's balanced just fit a smartbomb" "it's balanced just stay out of range" "it's balanced just go for drones first" suggested ways of defense... as far as you're flying Caldari "best" cruiser, anyway -.o edit: and on sidenote, the fact Moa makes far more effective armour tank than shield tank is effin' sad and bordering on ridiculous ¼¼;;
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:18:00 - [678] Now they will say that if you fit 3 smb and 3 noses you can kill drones fast, which somehow means "dead thorax", LOL
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:18:00 - [679] Now they will say that if you fit 3 smb and 3 noses you can kill drones fast, which somehow means "dead thorax", LOL
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:21:00 - [680] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan If you remove the plate, the rax loses its megatank.. and since the damage isn't insta damage like that of a gank-a-geddon (drone flight time.. etc) plus the rax because vunrable on its way to its target it levels things out. It does not LEVEL it out, it RULES it out. Ok ? No, it doesn't. I'm quite successful with my non-plate 'rax. I'm also quite vulnerable. I notice you've changed your argument to attack the value of a thorax without plate...but this logic will be even more unfounded than the logic that drones make it overpowered, as old-school thorax lovers have been making due with their fragile but heavy hitting cruiser for a good long time. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.

Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:21:00 - [681] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan If you remove the plate, the rax loses its megatank.. and since the damage isn't insta damage like that of a gank-a-geddon (drone flight time.. etc) plus the rax because vunrable on its way to its target it levels things out. It does not LEVEL it out, it RULES it out. Ok ? No, it doesn't. I'm quite successful with my non-plate 'rax. I'm also quite vulnerable. I notice you've changed your argument to attack the value of a thorax without plate...but this logic will be even more unfounded than the logic that drones make it overpowered, as old-school thorax lovers have been making due with their fragile but heavy hitting cruiser for a good long time.
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:28:00 - [682] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates cruisers mounting frigates guns are the bane of frigates, t1 and t2 alike, much more than cruisers mounting cruiser guns. Does this make sense to you ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly. That is where i stop replying to you. I tried enough, believe what you want. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Two points... first, call me crazy doesn't it make sense that since it has bonuses that are directed towards using med guns.. well, its supposed to fit med guns? Second, thank you from proving my point that its the plates that are the problem. Since you can't enter into a debate about this problem and so far all your arguments have been about protecting you ability to use your precious oversized plate. Sorry, but nerfing the drone bay isn't the answer... addressing the use of oversized plates is. But hey, this whole thread is going in circles.. and in the end something is going to give, which will more then likely be the nerfing of both the plate and the drone bay... and a new thread of nerf this ship, because its too powerful
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:28:00 - [683] Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates cruisers mounting frigates guns are the bane of frigates, t1 and t2 alike, much more than cruisers mounting cruiser guns. Does this make sense to you ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly. That is where i stop replying to you. I tried enough, believe what you want. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Two points... first, call me crazy doesn't it make sense that since it has bonuses that are directed towards using med guns.. well, its supposed to fit med guns? Second, thank you from proving my point that its the plates that are the problem. Since you can't enter into a debate about this problem and so far all your arguments have been about protecting you ability to use your precious oversized plate. Sorry, but nerfing the drone bay isn't the answer... addressing the use of oversized plates is. But hey, this whole thread is going in circles.. and in the end something is going to give, which will more then likely be the nerfing of both the plate and the drone bay... and a new thread of nerf this ship, because its too powerful
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:32:00 - [684] Tomorrow there is no plates in the game. Thorax has 5 guns, grid to fit, bonus to damage. Some HP. Rupture has 4 guns 2 bonuses, grid to fit, Some HP which is not much bigger then thorax HP. All the stas can float aroudn 10%-15% to the advantage of one or another AND THORAX GETS DOUBLE DPS AND A COMPLETE SET BS WEAPON ON TOP OF THAT How on gods green earth it is balanced? How plates fit here?
Nomen Nescio	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:32:00 - [685] Tomorrow there is no plates in the game. Thorax has 5 guns, grid to fit, bonus to damage. Some HP. Rupture has 4 guns 2 bonuses, grid to fit, Some HP which is not much bigger then thorax HP. All the stas can float aroudn 10%-15% to the advantage of one or another AND THORAX GETS DOUBLE DPS AND A COMPLETE SET BS WEAPON ON TOP OF THAT How on gods green earth it is balanced? How plates fit here?
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:34:00 - [686] Originally by: Nomen Nescio AND THORAX GETS DOUBLE DPS How on gods green earth it is balanced? How plates fit here? Because it has half the time to do the damage in. But I've said that a lot now... Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:34:00 - [687] Originally by: Nomen Nescio AND THORAX GETS DOUBLE DPS How on gods green earth it is balanced? How plates fit here? Because it has half the time to do the damage in. But I've said that a lot now...
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:35:00 - [688] Originally by: Toshiro Khan Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates cruisers mounting frigates guns are the bane of frigates, t1 and t2 alike, much more than cruisers mounting cruiser guns. Does this make sense to you ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly. That is where i stop replying to you. I tried enough, believe what you want. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Two points... first, call me crazy doesn't it make sense that since it has bonuses that are directed towards using med guns.. well, its supposed to fit med guns? Second, thank you from proving my point that its the plates that are the problem. Since you can't enter into a debate about this problem and so far all your arguments have been about protecting you ability to use your precious oversized plate. Sorry, but nerfing the drone bay isn't the answer... addressing the use of oversized plates is. But hey, this whole thread is going in circles.. and in the end something is going to give, which will more then likely be the nerfing of both the plate and the drone bay... and a new thread of nerf this ship, because its too powerful Fix, nerf, remove plates from all cruisers and your still left with a SERIOUS problem called Thorax with 8 Heavy Drones. Doesn't matter what type you have on, if you name them, if they fetch your slippers because at the end of the day its still a HUGE problem. You want either a) nothing to happen at all or b) Plates to be changed a) HUGE imbalance that's almost stressing b) Even bigger imbalance thats really irritating you would even consider Until you take care of one problem you are still left with one flat out fact... Thorax > Every Cruiser in EVE. Plate or No plate. Not only do you effect Cruisers if you want Oversized plates to be taken away, you also effect HACs and AF. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:35:00 - [689] Originally by: Toshiro Khan Originally by: Naughty Boy Originally by: Toshiro Khan Erm... frigs are not hurt by this, the one frig i can see by the plates being sorted out is the plated claw.. which imho is overpowered in the same way as the rax is. Because of oversized plates cruisers mounting frigates guns are the bane of frigates, t1 and t2 alike, much more than cruisers mounting cruiser guns. Does this make sense to you ? Originally by: Toshiro Khan Your whole argument boils down to the fact, you don't want plates to be fixed. And rather addressing this problem you want to nerf the rax.. without plate the rax is nothing, going back to before some bright spark put 1600mm plate on a rax, and you could use 10 heavies in a rax.. no-one really complained about the rax.. because it was just another cruiser and died very quickly. That is where i stop replying to you. I tried enough, believe what you want. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Two points... first, call me crazy doesn't it make sense that since it has bonuses that are directed towards using med guns.. well, its supposed to fit med guns? Second, thank you from proving my point that its the plates that are the problem. Since you can't enter into a debate about this problem and so far all your arguments have been about protecting you ability to use your precious oversized plate. Sorry, but nerfing the drone bay isn't the answer... addressing the use of oversized plates is. But hey, this whole thread is going in circles.. and in the end something is going to give, which will more then likely be the nerfing of both the plate and the drone bay... and a new thread of nerf this ship, because its too powerful Fix, nerf, remove plates from all cruisers and your still left with a SERIOUS problem called Thorax with 8 Heavy Drones. Doesn't matter what type you have on, if you name them, if they fetch your slippers because at the end of the day its still a HUGE problem. You want either a) nothing to happen at all or b) Plates to be changed a) HUGE imbalance that's almost stressing b) Even bigger imbalance thats really irritating you would even consider Until you take care of one problem you are still left with one flat out fact... Thorax > Every Cruiser in EVE. Plate or No plate. Not only do you effect Cruisers if you want Oversized plates to be taken away, you also effect HACs and AF. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Garreck	Posted - 2005.08.26 18:40:00 - [690] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Thorax > Every Cruiser in EVE. Plate or No plate. Without plate, it's simply not true. Folks are already yielding to the logic that a non-plated thorax is quite vulnerable. Originally by: Kaylana Syi Not only do you effect Cruisers if you want Oversized plates to be taken away, you also effect HACs and AF. I don't see how this is a bad thing. Garreck Aeternus Crusade Aku. Soku. Zan.



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