EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3

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Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.09.05 16:03:00 - [1081] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 05/09/2005 16:05:17 Originally by: Ravenge There are plenty of posts that illustrate the oversized plate problem and several videos.. some have been brought up in this very thread.. but you just ignored them, in favour of trying to shout down other post... so follow your own siggys advice and do some reading to find them. When you've got a hammer in the head, every problem looks like a nail. You decided that the problem is the plate and you see evidence of it everywhere, that doesn't make it true. You are the one ignoring every argument, every calculation, proving you wrong. My current Thorax setup: * 5 * 150mm railguns, * mwd, web, disruptor, * 1600mm plate t2, 2 energized nano t2, RCU t1, med rep t2 speed: 208m/s with navigation 5 & cheapo +3% speed implant armor: 5512hp with hull upgrades 5 My next thorax setup (without oversized plate): * 5 * 150mm railguns, * mwd, web, disruptor, * 2 * 800mm plate t2, 2 energized nano t2, med rep t2 speed: 187m/s with navigation 5 & cheapo +3% speed implant armor: 5517hp with hull upgrades 5 (like 21m/s are going to matter) Don't give me the bull "800mm is oversized too", the t2 version takes 230 pg and fit on a stabber without pg mod, while still fitting a AB2 and medium guns. Originally by: Sariyah so it can fit another rcu 2 to be able to fit it with med guns right? geez. Selective reading 4tw. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty. In Rust We Trust
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2005.09.05 16:03:00 - [1082] Edited by: Crellion on 05/09/2005 16:04:55 Originally by: Ravenge Originally by: Naughty Boy What exactly do i have to read, or where exactly do you prove your point ? A link, or even a post number will be enough, thank you. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. There are plenty of posts that illustrate the oversized plate problem and several videos.. some have been brought up in this very thread.. but you just ignored them, in favour of trying to shout down other post... so follow your own siggys advice and do some reading to find them. Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 05/09/2005 04:13:02 Please explain to me how a Thorax without a plate is any weaker than any OTHER cruiser without a plate? It has 2025 HP compared to the average 2050 that other lvl 3 Cruisers have. Not to mention it does the majority of its damage through its drones and thus can easily use those 5 low slots for tanking while still having ridiculous damage output. Maybe its because it has the lowest amount of slots then eany other tier 3 cruiser, could be that the guns intended for it are too cap hungry and intensive and it could be that since its supposed to be the ulitmate in close range cruisers, that it can't tank for anything. and so on.. so i ask you.. if the drone bay was reduced, would it be acceptable for the rax to get 2 extra slots, as that would bring it inline with the maller. Precisely.- +Its much more skill intensive than Maller IMO and almost as skill intensive as Moa (which IMPO powns the Rax 1v1 every time if you have uber skills in: Hybrids, Missles, EW, Fitting, Shield/Cap, Fitting AND Navigation) Look at "combat system" skills only: Maller: General gunnery + S Lasers II = 2 Rax: Genera G + S Hybrids II and Drones skills = 3 Moa: General G + S Hybrids (prereq.) + M Hybrids + Gen. Mislles + Heavy missles II + Drones skills + EW = 7 So at high skils (IMO) Moa > Rax > Maller At medium skills Rax > Maller > Moa At low skills Maller > Moa > Rax (rax with M rails and 3 light drones and no plate is a bit of a joke :) ) Train your a**s instead of complaining. There is great balance in this game. It can be made better but not like this LOL. I have no real knowlledge of the Rupture's capabilities so I did not include it although I hear good things :) Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.09.05 16:03:00 - [1083] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 05/09/2005 16:05:17 Originally by: Ravenge There are plenty of posts that illustrate the oversized plate problem and several videos.. some have been brought up in this very thread.. but you just ignored them, in favour of trying to shout down other post... so follow your own siggys advice and do some reading to find them. When you've got a hammer in the head, every problem looks like a nail. You decided that the problem is the plate and you see evidence of it everywhere, that doesn't make it true. You are the one ignoring every argument, every calculation, proving you wrong. My current Thorax setup: * 5 * 150mm railguns, * mwd, web, disruptor, * 1600mm plate t2, 2 energized nano t2, RCU t1, med rep t2 speed: 208m/s with navigation 5 & cheapo +3% speed implant armor: 5512hp with hull upgrades 5 My next thorax setup (without oversized plate): * 5 * 150mm railguns, * mwd, web, disruptor, * 2 * 800mm plate t2, 2 energized nano t2, med rep t2 speed: 187m/s with navigation 5 & cheapo +3% speed implant armor: 5517hp with hull upgrades 5 (like 21m/s are going to matter) Don't give me the bull "800mm is oversized too", the t2 version takes 230 pg and fit on a stabber without pg mod, while still fitting a AB2 and medium guns. Originally by: Sariyah so it can fit another rcu 2 to be able to fit it with med guns right? geez. Selective reading 4tw. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty. In Rust We Trust
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2005.09.05 16:03:00 - [1084] Edited by: Crellion on 05/09/2005 16:04:55 Originally by: Ravenge Originally by: Naughty Boy What exactly do i have to read, or where exactly do you prove your point ? A link, or even a post number will be enough, thank you. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. There are plenty of posts that illustrate the oversized plate problem and several videos.. some have been brought up in this very thread.. but you just ignored them, in favour of trying to shout down other post... so follow your own siggys advice and do some reading to find them. Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 05/09/2005 04:13:02 Please explain to me how a Thorax without a plate is any weaker than any OTHER cruiser without a plate? It has 2025 HP compared to the average 2050 that other lvl 3 Cruisers have. Not to mention it does the majority of its damage through its drones and thus can easily use those 5 low slots for tanking while still having ridiculous damage output. Maybe its because it has the lowest amount of slots then eany other tier 3 cruiser, could be that the guns intended for it are too cap hungry and intensive and it could be that since its supposed to be the ulitmate in close range cruisers, that it can't tank for anything. and so on.. so i ask you.. if the drone bay was reduced, would it be acceptable for the rax to get 2 extra slots, as that would bring it inline with the maller. Precisely.- +Its much more skill intensive than Maller IMO and almost as skill intensive as Moa (which IMPO powns the Rax 1v1 every time if you have uber skills in: Hybrids, Missles, EW, Fitting, Shield/Cap, Fitting AND Navigation) Look at "combat system" skills only: Maller: General gunnery + S Lasers II = 2 Rax: Genera G + S Hybrids II and Drones skills = 3 Moa: General G + S Hybrids (prereq.) + M Hybrids + Gen. Mislles + Heavy missles II + Drones skills + EW = 7 So at high skils (IMO) Moa > Rax > Maller At medium skills Rax > Maller > Moa At low skills Maller > Moa > Rax (rax with M rails and 3 light drones and no plate is a bit of a joke :) ) Train your a**s instead of complaining. There is great balance in this game. It can be made better but not like this LOL. I have no real knowlledge of the Rupture's capabilities so I did not include it although I hear good things :) Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 17:41:00 - [1085] Edited by: Ravenge on 05/09/2005 17:55:17 Originally by: Naughty Boy ......... Sorry try again... 800mm is still oversized plates no matter what you try and say.. seems that your the hard headed one who can't admit he's wrong on the whole plate issue. 1600mm and 800mm are battleship plates... now say it with me.. battleship plates. 50mm and 100mm are frigate plates. 200mm and 400mm are cruiser plates 800mm and 1600mm are battleship plates .. see its not bull and its easy to understand. And what you fail to see that getting gallente cruiser 3 alone doesn't automatically allow you to control 8 drones pump out large dps just from them while fitting uber plating with running a massive tank. but you just can't open your eyes and see passed the drones ...try it, and maybe you might just learn something. Also you might.. (well anything is possible.) to suddenly realise that the rax is beatable and with out its plating its not that uber, and that the problem has always been the oversized plates.. but hey, if the drone bays get reduced.. i hope to get my 2 extra slots in return.. after thats a very fair trade off. a low slot and a med slot would be just right. That way everyone is happy.. the drone bay gets reduced and those crying nerf get what they want.. and the extra slots brings the rax inline with maller and the other tier 3 cruisers. and us rax pilots get something..
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 17:41:00 - [1086] Edited by: Ravenge on 05/09/2005 17:55:17 Originally by: Naughty Boy ......... Sorry try again... 800mm is still oversized plates no matter what you try and say.. seems that your the hard headed one who can't admit he's wrong on the whole plate issue. 1600mm and 800mm are battleship plates... now say it with me.. battleship plates. 50mm and 100mm are frigate plates. 200mm and 400mm are cruiser plates 800mm and 1600mm are battleship plates .. see its not bull and its easy to understand. And what you fail to see that getting gallente cruiser 3 alone doesn't automatically allow you to control 8 drones pump out large dps just from them while fitting uber plating with running a massive tank. but you just can't open your eyes and see passed the drones ...try it, and maybe you might just learn something. Also you might.. (well anything is possible.) to suddenly realise that the rax is beatable and with out its plating its not that uber, and that the problem has always been the oversized plates.. but hey, if the drone bays get reduced.. i hope to get my 2 extra slots in return.. after thats a very fair trade off. a low slot and a med slot would be just right. That way everyone is happy.. the drone bay gets reduced and those crying nerf get what they want.. and the extra slots brings the rax inline with maller and the other tier 3 cruisers. and us rax pilots get something..
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.09.05 18:44:00 - [1087] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 05/09/2005 18:49:00 Originally by: Ravenge Sorry try again... 800mm is still oversized plates no matter what you try and say.. seems that your the hard headed one who can't admit he's wrong on the whole plate issue. 1600mm and 800mm are battleship plates... now say it with me.. battleship plates. Since i grow tired of the bull you make up on the move without anything to back it up, here are numbers for you: Medium armor rep t2: 173 mw & 23 tf 720mm artillery t2: 275 mw & 32 tf 250mm railgun t2: 236 mw & 44 tf Heavy pulse laser t2: 231 mw & 35 tf Medium capacitor booster t2: 150 mw & 25 tf Large capacitor battery: 250 mw & 100 tf Medium nosferatu t2: 200 mw & 25 tf Medium energy neutralizer t2: 225 mw & 20 tf 10nm MWD t2: 165 mw & 50 tf 800mm steel plate t2: 230 mw & 28 tf 400mm steel plate t2: 35 mw & 23 tf One is the low-end cruiser plate, the other is the high-end cruiser plate. As i said, the fact that i can fit a 800mm plate t2, a t2 propulsion mod, t2 medium weapons (4 medium AC and 2 cruiser sized missile launchers) without power mod on one of the most pg challenged t1 cruiser out there (stabber) should be the evidence of the plate being a cruiser plate. You can also fit a 800mm plate t2 and med electrons t2 and a mwd t2 with only one power upgrade on a thorax. It's getting you nowhere to propose to change all the game so that the drone bay of the thorax makes sense. Besides, removing plates is the worst thing that could happen to the thorax. Why you want to do that is something i don't understand. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.09.05 18:44:00 - [1088] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 05/09/2005 18:49:00 Originally by: Ravenge Sorry try again... 800mm is still oversized plates no matter what you try and say.. seems that your the hard headed one who can't admit he's wrong on the whole plate issue. 1600mm and 800mm are battleship plates... now say it with me.. battleship plates. Since i grow tired of the bull you make up on the move without anything to back it up, here are numbers for you: Medium armor rep t2: 173 mw & 23 tf 720mm artillery t2: 275 mw & 32 tf 250mm railgun t2: 236 mw & 44 tf Heavy pulse laser t2: 231 mw & 35 tf Medium capacitor booster t2: 150 mw & 25 tf Large capacitor battery: 250 mw & 100 tf Medium nosferatu t2: 200 mw & 25 tf Medium energy neutralizer t2: 225 mw & 20 tf 10nm MWD t2: 165 mw & 50 tf 800mm steel plate t2: 230 mw & 28 tf 400mm steel plate t2: 35 mw & 23 tf One is the low-end cruiser plate, the other is the high-end cruiser plate. As i said, the fact that i can fit a 800mm plate t2, a t2 propulsion mod, t2 medium weapons (4 medium AC and 2 cruiser sized missile launchers) without power mod on one of the most pg challenged t1 cruiser out there (stabber) should be the evidence of the plate being a cruiser plate. You can also fit a 800mm plate t2 and med electrons t2 and a mwd t2 with only one power upgrade on a thorax. It's getting you nowhere to propose to change all the game so that the drone bay of the thorax makes sense. Besides, removing plates is the worst thing that could happen to the thorax. Why you want to do that is something i don't understand. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2005.09.05 18:57:00 - [1089] 19 pages! must be a hot issue. i'm not even gonna get involved...
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2005.09.05 18:57:00 - [1090] 19 pages! must be a hot issue. i'm not even gonna get involved...
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.09.05 19:04:00 - [1091] Originally by: Crellion Precisely.- +Its much more skill intensive than Maller IMO and almost as skill intensive as Moa (which IMPO powns the Rax 1v1 every time if you have uber skills in: Hybrids, Missles, EW, Fitting, Shield/Cap, Fitting AND Navigation) Look at "combat system" skills only: Maller: General gunnery + S Lasers II = 2 Rax: Genera G + S Hybrids II and Drones skills = 3 Moa: General G + S Hybrids (prereq.) + M Hybrids + Gen. Mislles + Heavy missles II + Drones skills + EW = 7 So at high skils (IMO) Moa > Rax > Maller At medium skills Rax > Maller > Moa At low skills Maller > Moa > Rax (rax with M rails and 3 light drones and no plate is a bit of a joke :) ) Train your a**s instead of complaining. There is great balance in this game. It can be made better but not like this LOL. I have no real knowlledge of the Rupture's capabilities so I did not include it although I hear good things :) Since it's bull day today, i'll come up with a similar argument to prove that the typhoon is the high end, high skill battleship that dooms them all, especially fitted with a large t2 gun of each race. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.09.05 19:04:00 - [1092] Originally by: Crellion Precisely.- +Its much more skill intensive than Maller IMO and almost as skill intensive as Moa (which IMPO powns the Rax 1v1 every time if you have uber skills in: Hybrids, Missles, EW, Fitting, Shield/Cap, Fitting AND Navigation) Look at "combat system" skills only: Maller: General gunnery + S Lasers II = 2 Rax: Genera G + S Hybrids II and Drones skills = 3 Moa: General G + S Hybrids (prereq.) + M Hybrids + Gen. Mislles + Heavy missles II + Drones skills + EW = 7 So at high skils (IMO) Moa > Rax > Maller At medium skills Rax > Maller > Moa At low skills Maller > Moa > Rax (rax with M rails and 3 light drones and no plate is a bit of a joke :) ) Train your a**s instead of complaining. There is great balance in this game. It can be made better but not like this LOL. I have no real knowlledge of the Rupture's capabilities so I did not include it although I hear good things :) Since it's bull day today, i'll come up with a similar argument to prove that the typhoon is the high end, high skill battleship that dooms them all, especially fitted with a large t2 gun of each race. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
BIRDofPREY Minmatar KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2005.09.05 22:55:00 - [1093] How come, about every six to eight months or so, someone starts a thread complaining about something being over powered and coming up with self imposed arguements about one aspect or the other. The T-rax is a good ship, and has pretty much been the way it is now since beta. That being said, who imposed the idea that Heavy Drones are "Battleship" size weapons? They also have been pretty much the way they are since beta (except for a nerf some time back, over damage). I seem to remember a Moa pilot whining for weeks about the Rax. Comparisions were made in tactics and load out and it was agreed, if the Moa kept it's distance, the Rax was toast. But if the Rax got on top of the Moa, the Moa was out of it's league. I've flown T-rax' now and then. Had one ripped to shreads by some chap in a Amarr ship of some sort. Opened me up and ate my lunch before I could get the lock and drop the drones. Then there was the frigate that simple out ran my Ogres and spammed me with tech II arty, till I had to run and leave my drones behind. Sorry, but in two in a half years, I've not found the "I win" button. And I have it on good authority that the Rax is now where near it either. Happy Hunting Frustration, agravation and anger is just EVE's way of saying you are playing the game to the fullist
BIRDofPREY Minmatar KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2005.09.05 22:55:00 - [1094] How come, about every six to eight months or so, someone starts a thread complaining about something being over powered and coming up with self imposed arguements about one aspect or the other. The T-rax is a good ship, and has pretty much been the way it is now since beta. That being said, who imposed the idea that Heavy Drones are "Battleship" size weapons? They also have been pretty much the way they are since beta (except for a nerf some time back, over damage). I seem to remember a Moa pilot whining for weeks about the Rax. Comparisions were made in tactics and load out and it was agreed, if the Moa kept it's distance, the Rax was toast. But if the Rax got on top of the Moa, the Moa was out of it's league. I've flown T-rax' now and then. Had one ripped to shreads by some chap in a Amarr ship of some sort. Opened me up and ate my lunch before I could get the lock and drop the drones. Then there was the frigate that simple out ran my Ogres and spammed me with tech II arty, till I had to run and leave my drones behind. Sorry, but in two in a half years, I've not found the "I win" button. And I have it on good authority that the Rax is now where near it either. Happy Hunting Frustration, agravation and anger is just EVE's way of saying you are playing the game to the fullist
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:09:00 - [1095] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 06/09/2005 01:11:06 Nobody is saying its a win button we're saying it has way too many advantages and too few disadvantages. It can fit out with a tank while still doing twice the DPS of other cruisers just through its drones. No other Tier 1 cruiser can manage that. 100m3 drone bay simply puts the Rax more in place when it comes to advantages versus disadvantages. 169 free DPS with no fitting penalty is pretty stupid. 85 free DPS is more reasonable. That's still the damage output of a typical T1 Cruiser. In addition to that the pilot can still choose to have over 5k HP with a plate and add 95 more DPS through light Neutron blasters or over 150 DPS with heavy blasters and damage mods. Thats a more reasonable tradeoff. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:09:00 - [1096] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 06/09/2005 01:11:06 Nobody is saying its a win button we're saying it has way too many advantages and too few disadvantages. It can fit out with a tank while still doing twice the DPS of other cruisers just through its drones. No other Tier 1 cruiser can manage that. 100m3 drone bay simply puts the Rax more in place when it comes to advantages versus disadvantages. 169 free DPS with no fitting penalty is pretty stupid. 85 free DPS is more reasonable. That's still the damage output of a typical T1 Cruiser. In addition to that the pilot can still choose to have over 5k HP with a plate and add 95 more DPS through light Neutron blasters or over 150 DPS with heavy blasters and damage mods. Thats a more reasonable tradeoff. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
R'adeh Gekidoku	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:14:00 - [1097] I demand that this thread gets closed, NOW! And dare anyone nerf my beloved Rax'!! __________________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma!
R'adeh Gekidoku	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:14:00 - [1098] I demand that this thread gets closed, NOW! And dare anyone nerf my beloved Rax'!! __________________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp. Please show mercy Drakma!
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:15:00 - [1099] I dare. Whatcha gonna do about it? Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:15:00 - [1100] I dare. Whatcha gonna do about it? Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:22:00 - [1101] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 06/09/2005 01:11:06 Nobody is saying its a win button we're saying it has way too many advantages and too few disadvantages. It can fit out with a tank while still doing twice the DPS of other cruisers just through its drones. No other Tier 1 cruiser can manage that. 100m3 drone bay simply puts the Rax more in place when it comes to advantages versus disadvantages. 169 free DPS with no fitting penalty is pretty stupid. 85 free DPS is more reasonable. That's still the damage output of a typical T1 Cruiser. In addition to that the pilot can still choose to have over 5k HP with a plate and add 95 more DPS through light Neutron blasters or over 150 DPS with heavy blasters and damage mods. Thats a more reasonable tradeoff. 169 free dps... come now, stop making things up... to get that 169 dps.. you need heavy drones skill at lvl 4, drones skill and level 5 and drone interfacing at lvl 3... Flying a rax doesn't give you this instant damage you need to train those skills up first. Plus if the oversized plate issue gets sorted out, you won't have to worry too much about the big bad thorax.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:22:00 - [1102] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 06/09/2005 01:11:06 Nobody is saying its a win button we're saying it has way too many advantages and too few disadvantages. It can fit out with a tank while still doing twice the DPS of other cruisers just through its drones. No other Tier 1 cruiser can manage that. 100m3 drone bay simply puts the Rax more in place when it comes to advantages versus disadvantages. 169 free DPS with no fitting penalty is pretty stupid. 85 free DPS is more reasonable. That's still the damage output of a typical T1 Cruiser. In addition to that the pilot can still choose to have over 5k HP with a plate and add 95 more DPS through light Neutron blasters or over 150 DPS with heavy blasters and damage mods. Thats a more reasonable tradeoff. 169 free dps... come now, stop making things up... to get that 169 dps.. you need heavy drones skill at lvl 4, drones skill and level 5 and drone interfacing at lvl 3... Flying a rax doesn't give you this instant damage you need to train those skills up first. Plus if the oversized plate issue gets sorted out, you won't have to worry too much about the big bad thorax.
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:27:00 - [1103] Originally by: Ravenge Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 06/09/2005 01:11:06 Nobody is saying its a win button we're saying it has way too many advantages and too few disadvantages. It can fit out with a tank while still doing twice the DPS of other cruisers just through its drones. No other Tier 1 cruiser can manage that. 100m3 drone bay simply puts the Rax more in place when it comes to advantages versus disadvantages. 169 free DPS with no fitting penalty is pretty stupid. 85 free DPS is more reasonable. That's still the damage output of a typical T1 Cruiser. In addition to that the pilot can still choose to have over 5k HP with a plate and add 95 more DPS through light Neutron blasters or over 150 DPS with heavy blasters and damage mods. Thats a more reasonable tradeoff. 169 free dps... come now, stop making things up... to get that 169 dps.. you need heavy drones skill at lvl 4, drones skill and level 5 and drone interfacing at lvl 3... Flying a rax doesn't give you this instant damage you need to train those skills up first. Plus if the oversized plate issue gets sorted out, you won't have to worry too much about the big bad thorax. Thats hardly difficult to get. Especially when you dont have to worry about any gunnery or missile skills to achieve that DPS. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:27:00 - [1104] Originally by: Ravenge Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 06/09/2005 01:11:06 Nobody is saying its a win button we're saying it has way too many advantages and too few disadvantages. It can fit out with a tank while still doing twice the DPS of other cruisers just through its drones. No other Tier 1 cruiser can manage that. 100m3 drone bay simply puts the Rax more in place when it comes to advantages versus disadvantages. 169 free DPS with no fitting penalty is pretty stupid. 85 free DPS is more reasonable. That's still the damage output of a typical T1 Cruiser. In addition to that the pilot can still choose to have over 5k HP with a plate and add 95 more DPS through light Neutron blasters or over 150 DPS with heavy blasters and damage mods. Thats a more reasonable tradeoff. 169 free dps... come now, stop making things up... to get that 169 dps.. you need heavy drones skill at lvl 4, drones skill and level 5 and drone interfacing at lvl 3... Flying a rax doesn't give you this instant damage you need to train those skills up first. Plus if the oversized plate issue gets sorted out, you won't have to worry too much about the big bad thorax. Thats hardly difficult to get. Especially when you dont have to worry about any gunnery or missile skills to achieve that DPS. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:31:00 - [1105] Originally by: Naughty Boy .............. Tut tut... not following the advice in your own signature again. Remember read first then write.. This is why you miss out on so many little snippits of information and you just can't get over the fact that 800mm is battleship plate now can you? So no matter how much you call it bull, the fact of the matter is its the low end battleship plate now deal with it. I guess you will never understand, that the rax isn't as uber as you keep going on about. But how about commenting on this.. if the rax gets its drone bay nerfed.. would it be fair to say that it gets two extra slots, to bring it inline with the other tier 3 cruisers? (to recap two of them have 14 slots and 1 has 15 .. the rax only has 13, by giving it 2 slots it will fill the role of the missing 15 slot tier 3 cruiser.)
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:31:00 - [1106] Originally by: Naughty Boy .............. Tut tut... not following the advice in your own signature again. Remember read first then write.. This is why you miss out on so many little snippits of information and you just can't get over the fact that 800mm is battleship plate now can you? So no matter how much you call it bull, the fact of the matter is its the low end battleship plate now deal with it. I guess you will never understand, that the rax isn't as uber as you keep going on about. But how about commenting on this.. if the rax gets its drone bay nerfed.. would it be fair to say that it gets two extra slots, to bring it inline with the other tier 3 cruisers? (to recap two of them have 14 slots and 1 has 15 .. the rax only has 13, by giving it 2 slots it will fill the role of the missing 15 slot tier 3 cruiser.)
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:33:00 - [1107] Originally by: Ravenge Usual opinions... Facts, figures > opinions. My final words to you. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Naughty Boy Chronics of ordinary hate	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:33:00 - [1108] Originally by: Ravenge Usual opinions... Facts, figures > opinions. My final words to you. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. In Rust We Trust
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:35:00 - [1109] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Thats hardly difficult to get. Especially when you dont have to worry about any gunnery or missile skills to achieve that DPS. Keep going as your uber set up needs a little more then drone skills.. you can't fit 1600 mm plate and active hardeners with just lvl 3 gallente cruiser and drone skills. your looking at a couple of months training to get the uber tanking and dps you keep spouting about.. maybe a bit less if you train the learning skills... but you also have to add them to the training time.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:35:00 - [1110] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Thats hardly difficult to get. Especially when you dont have to worry about any gunnery or missile skills to achieve that DPS. Keep going as your uber set up needs a little more then drone skills.. you can't fit 1600 mm plate and active hardeners with just lvl 3 gallente cruiser and drone skills. your looking at a couple of months training to get the uber tanking and dps you keep spouting about.. maybe a bit less if you train the learning skills... but you also have to add them to the training time.

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