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| Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 42 post(s) |
 j0sephine    |
Posted - 2005.11.03 03:24:00 -
[1921] "The extra hp seem to have fallen by the wayside in favour of the tanking changes" Maya, check the official item database on this very site.. probably by mistake it seems to sport now the stats for ships with all the recently announced changes rolled together, and the extra hp is definitely included in these stats -.o |
 j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.11.03 03:24:00 -
[1922] "The extra hp seem to have fallen by the wayside in favour of the tanking changes" Maya, check the official item database on this very site.. probably by mistake it seems to sport now the stats for ships with all the recently announced changes rolled together, and the extra hp is definitely included in these stats -.o |
 Kaell Meynn |
Posted - 2005.11.03 03:44:00 -
[1923]Having drones in your hangar doesn't give you more damage or more EW, or more webbing, or anything like that. Having them deployed does. If a Dominix having 5 EW drones deployed just like most other ships can needs to deal damage via guns, then it needs to be given the ability to do that just like those other ships have. Dominix has crappy grid because it gets to use lots of drones. If it's drones are the same number and strength as a Megathrons, then it needs TONS more grid (yay for lack of diversity?). You can't have it both ways, Dominix with same number and strength of fielded drones as everyone else AND way less grid than everyone else. About EW drones... have you seen the numbers on these? 5 of them are about equivalent to 1 or 2 EW modules. Making them 50% better for the Dominix, for a total of about 1.5 to 3 EW modules, seems a fair tradeoff for having way less grid than other Teir 1 BSs (other than Scorp, which gets other stuff to make it good which I wont go into). Thats like 2 extra EW module it gets over a Geddon, which has 10,500 grid (over 100% more) to make up for it, seems a fair trade to me. And these EW 'modules' can be destroyed, and have to travel to their target. |
 Kaell Meynn Divergence |
Posted - 2005.11.03 03:44:00 -
[1924]Having drones in your hangar doesn't give you more damage or more EW, or more webbing, or anything like that. Having them deployed does. If a Dominix having 5 EW drones deployed just like most other ships can needs to deal damage via guns, then it needs to be given the ability to do that just like those other ships have. Dominix has crappy grid because it gets to use lots of drones. If it's drones are the same number and strength as a Megathrons, then it needs TONS more grid (yay for lack of diversity?). You can't have it both ways, Dominix with same number and strength of fielded drones as everyone else AND way less grid than everyone else. About EW drones... have you seen the numbers on these? 5 of them are about equivalent to 1 or 2 EW modules. Making them 50% better for the Dominix, for a total of about 1.5 to 3 EW modules, seems a fair tradeoff for having way less grid than other Teir 1 BSs (other than Scorp, which gets other stuff to make it good which I wont go into). Thats like 2 extra EW module it gets over a Geddon, which has 10,500 grid (over 100% more) to make up for it, seems a fair trade to me. And these EW 'modules' can be destroyed, and have to travel to their target. |
 jamesw |
Posted - 2005.11.03 04:00:00 -
[1925] Edited by: jamesw on 03/11/2005 04:00:37 I thought it had already been made clear, that despite having the same number of drones, the firepower and strength (of drones) is more for the dominix. Also, as most people know, fitting 6 large turrets is one of the Domi's many tricks, and is really no problem at all. 6 turrets + shield tank + damage mods + ecm drones. worth trying IMO. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas |
 jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia |
Posted - 2005.11.03 04:00:00 -
[1926] Edited by: jamesw on 03/11/2005 04:00:37 I thought it had already been made clear, that despite having the same number of drones, the firepower and strength (of drones) is more for the dominix. Also, as most people know, fitting 6 large turrets is one of the Domi's many tricks, and is really no problem at all. 6 turrets + shield tank + damage mods + ecm drones. worth trying IMO. -- Latest Vid: Domination! |
 Hugh Ruka |
Posted - 2005.11.03 05:23:00 -
[1927]
Oh well ... why is everybody suddenly so much focused on the Dominix ? There are other ships with less dronebay that will SUFFER from this change. Every ship that has right now a dronebay for less than 10 drones will be less effective unless the pilot trains Drone interfacing to level 5. In the 'old' system, if I can control a maximum of 5 heavy drones, than I do NOT NEED THE DRONE INTERFACING SKILL !!! But it becomes a neccessity now, as it compensates for the drone bay loss. Wake up and smell the nerf. Lots of pilots are getting nerfed in this way. And Caldari battleships will get hit hard, because drones are one of the key defenses against small craft (tacklers). ------------------------------ If stupidity could bloom, these forums would be all flowers ... |
 Hugh Ruka Caldari |
Posted - 2005.11.03 05:23:00 -
[1928]
Oh well ... why is everybody suddenly so much focused on the Dominix ? There are other ships with less dronebay that will SUFFER from this change. Every ship that has right now a dronebay for less than 10 drones will be less effective unless the pilot trains Drone interfacing to level 5. In the 'old' system, if I can control a maximum of 5 heavy drones, than I do NOT NEED THE DRONE INTERFACING SKILL !!! But it becomes a neccessity now, as it compensates for the drone bay loss. Wake up and smell the nerf. Lots of pilots are getting nerfed in this way. And Caldari battleships will get hit hard, because drones are one of the key defenses against small craft (tacklers).
|
Jim Raynor |
Posted - 2005.11.03 05:53:00 -
[1929]
Oh.. I dunno, I kind of look forward to being able to not have to fit a webifier on my Raven and just use two large web drones myself, and maybe 3 medium drones or a tracking disruptor drone.. ------ If Captain James T. Kirk and Mr. Spock embracing one another, in a bath tube, nude, in space, is wrong, I don't want to be right. |
 Jim Raynor Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate |
Posted - 2005.11.03 05:53:00 -
[1930]
Oh.. I dunno, I kind of look forward to being able to not have to fit a webifier on my Raven and just use two large web drones myself, and maybe 3 medium drones or a tracking disruptor drone.. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
 Farjung |
Posted - 2005.11.03 06:48:00 -
[1931]
Ah, well I understand your complaint better now. Personally I would never launch drones at that range even now, I consider drones to be a short range weapon, as in under 20km (which compliments nos range and dual 250mm w/ antimatter range as it happens). |
 Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.11.03 06:48:00 -
[1932]
Ah, well I understand your complaint better now. Personally I would never launch drones at that range even now, I consider drones to be a short range weapon, as in under 20km (which compliments nos range and dual 250mm w/ antimatter range as it happens). Wave of Mutilation 2 |
Astar Null |
Posted - 2005.11.03 06:49:00 -
[1933] Don't know if this has been proposed, haven't read _all_ 30+ pages  (gave up around 10)....a slight twist on one of the drones you are proposing: Mechanic Drone: Goes to work on target and attempts to repair the entire ship. If structure < 100% , repairs structure until at 100% then goes to armor, repairs that to 100%, then shields, repairs that to 100%, then goes idle. The Mechanic drone should repair at a much slower rate than the shield or armor repair drones due to its flexibility. It would be a very valuable drone due to its ability to repair other drones or ships in deep space away from stations and not unbalancing during combat. Considering the armor repair drone and shield repair drones are going to be released, i'm sure someone in the hypothetical Eve universe would would have combined the two.... |
 Astar Null Gallente eXceed Inc. INVICTUS. |
Posted - 2005.11.03 06:49:00 -
[1934] Don't know if this has been proposed, haven't read _all_ 30+ pages (gave up around 10)....a slight twist on one of the drones you are proposing: Mechanic Drone: Goes to work on target and attempts to repair the entire ship. If structure < 100% , repairs structure until at 100% then goes to armor, repairs that to 100%, then shields, repairs that to 100%, then goes idle. The Mechanic drone should repair at a much slower rate than the shield or armor repair drones due to its flexibility. It would be a very valuable drone due to its ability to repair other drones or ships in deep space away from stations and not unbalancing during combat. Considering the armor repair drone and shield repair drones are going to be released, i'm sure someone in the hypothetical Eve universe would would have combined the two.... |
 Hugh Ruka |
Posted - 2005.11.03 06:58:00 -
[1935]
Well my plan is using tracking disruptor drones with the raven and scorpion. Medium ones so I can have 5 of them and some spare. I do not see the point in using damage drones with other ships than the drone specialists (dominix etc.). ------------------------------ If stupidity could bloom, these forums would be all flowers ... |
Hugh Ruka Caldari |
Posted - 2005.11.03 06:58:00 -
[1936]
Well my plan is using tracking disruptor drones with the raven and scorpion. Medium ones so I can have 5 of them and some spare. I do not see the point in using damage drones with other ships than the drone specialists (dominix etc.).
|
 von Torgo |
Posted - 2005.11.03 07:18:00 -
[1937] Haven't read all the thread and don't know what has been discussed already. Anyway, here's my suggestion. Add a new module "External Dronebay". This would be a high slot module and come in all four sizes: small, medium, large and extra large. Primary function of the module would be to give a static increase in drone bay size. Not sure about the sizes and fitting requirements though. Furthermore, it should have some drawback like cargo expanders have. What do you think? |
 von Torgo Amarr |
Posted - 2005.11.03 07:18:00 -
[1938] Haven't read all the thread and don't know what has been discussed already. Anyway, here's my suggestion. Add a new module "External Dronebay". This would be a high slot module and come in all four sizes: small, medium, large and extra large. Primary function of the module would be to give a static increase in drone bay size. Not sure about the sizes and fitting requirements though. Furthermore, it should have some drawback like cargo expanders have. What do you think? |
Tiny Carlos |
Posted - 2005.11.03 07:37:00 -
[1939]
Lol, I notice you didn't awnser my post replying to yours 0.o Anyway with style being totaly non-important lets just make all the ships the same, balance will be perfect then. We have races they have their styles, without style games become boring and mechanical. |
 Tiny Carlos Brutor tribe |
Posted - 2005.11.03 07:37:00 -
[1940]
Lol, I notice you didn't awnser my post replying to yours 0.o Anyway with style being totaly non-important lets just make all the ships the same, balance will be perfect then. We have races they have their styles, without style games become boring and mechanical. "Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others." - Groucho Marx |
 Kaell Meynn |
Posted - 2005.11.03 07:53:00 -
[1941]Then you've been deceived if that is clear to you, because it is untrue. Only damage drones have more 'strength', thus my entire complaint. Your little example of 6 turrets with ECM drones, most other ships can do much better, as a Dominix is just as good with ECM drones as any other ship that can field 5 drones, and they get way better other bonuses, like more damage, or tracking, or 8 guns instead of 6, or more cap, etc, etc, etc... they all get something, Dominix gets stronger drones, if you use ECM drones, you dont get stronger drones even though you're supposed to... thats the ENTIRE PROBLEM (sorry for shout ><). |
Kaell Meynn Divergence |
Posted - 2005.11.03 07:53:00 -
[1942]Then you've been deceived if that is clear to you, because it is untrue. Only damage drones have more 'strength', thus my entire complaint. Your little example of 6 turrets with ECM drones, most other ships can do much better, as a Dominix is just as good with ECM drones as any other ship that can field 5 drones, and they get way better other bonuses, like more damage, or tracking, or 8 guns instead of 6, or more cap, etc, etc, etc... they all get something, Dominix gets stronger drones, if you use ECM drones, you dont get stronger drones even though you're supposed to... thats the ENTIRE PROBLEM (sorry for shout ><). |
 Kaell Meynn |
Posted - 2005.11.03 07:57:00 -
[1943]Only if you use the damage drones. If you use the new 'other' drones, you are just as good with them as the best drone ship in the entire game, without training any more skills, and there is no skill to make the best drone ship in the entire game any better than you can be with them. |
Kaell Meynn Divergence |
Posted - 2005.11.03 07:57:00 -
[1944]Only if you use the damage drones. If you use the new 'other' drones, you are just as good with them as the best drone ship in the entire game, without training any more skills, and there is no skill to make the best drone ship in the entire game any better than you can be with them. |
jamesw |
Posted - 2005.11.03 08:02:00 -
[1945] Edited by: jamesw on 03/11/2005 08:03:00
Tux had this to say. to me it does not say anything about dmg drones.
As to ECM drones being no more effective, i'll pay that, but that doesnt really change their usefullness - a Domi pilot will have at his discretion what drone type to use *at the time of the fight*. This is where pilot skill comes into play. What drones to use is all up in the air at this point, but I think you will find that a Domi pilot is better off. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia NEW Vid: Bobbing for Xelas |
 Kaell Meynn |
Posted - 2005.11.03 08:02:00 -
[1946] Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 03/11/2005 08:05:03 It would have to be a percentage, else it'll be a boost to non-drone ships far more than drone ships. A module that triples the dronebay of an Amarr ship, but only gives +50% more to a Gallente one seems a bit 'off'. Additionally, part of this balance relies upon the fact that some ships cant carry enough to field a full compliement of 5. To maintain ballance if you had such a module, you'd have to allow all ships to field all the drones in their bay, or it'll be a boost only for ships that are currently restricted to less than 5 drones due to bay size. You'd be effectively giveing ships that can only fit 3 in hold not only a large bay, but also more drone total HPs, more drone damage when damage drones are used, more drone ECM when ECM drones are used, etc... while the Dominix not only doesn't get this (and should), it also wouldn't get any increase from your new module either. |
Kaell Meynn Divergence |
Posted - 2005.11.03 08:02:00 -
[1947] Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 03/11/2005 08:05:03 It would have to be a percentage, else it'll be a boost to non-drone ships far more than drone ships. A module that triples the dronebay of an Amarr ship, but only gives +50% more to a Gallente one seems a bit 'off'. Additionally, part of this balance relies upon the fact that some ships cant carry enough to field a full compliement of 5. To maintain ballance if you had such a module, you'd have to allow all ships to field all the drones in their bay, or it'll be a boost only for ships that are currently restricted to less than 5 drones due to bay size. You'd be effectively giveing ships that can only fit 3 in hold not only a large bay, but also more drone total HPs, more drone damage when damage drones are used, more drone ECM when ECM drones are used, etc... while the Dominix not only doesn't get this (and should), it also wouldn't get any increase from your new module either. |
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia |
Posted - 2005.11.03 08:02:00 -
[1948] Edited by: jamesw on 03/11/2005 08:03:00
Tux had this to say. to me it does not say anything about dmg drones.
As to ECM drones being no more effective, i'll pay that, but that doesnt really change their usefullness - a Domi pilot will have at his discretion what drone type to use *at the time of the fight*. This is where pilot skill comes into play. What drones to use is all up in the air at this point, but I think you will find that a Domi pilot is better off. -- Latest Vid: Domination! |
 Kaell Meynn |
Posted - 2005.11.03 08:16:00 -
[1949] Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 03/11/2005 08:18:07 Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 03/11/2005 08:15:52 I don't get your point. They get more HPs (still less than they have now, but more than other people will get, so still a nerf), but he still hasn't said there, or in either dev blog, that Dominix ECM drones get +10%/BS level to their ECM strength. Thus the only proper assumtion would be that they do not. (I just realized that by 'strength' you may have meant HPs, and not Strength as in efficacy... if you mean HPs, yes they do, if you mean strength of effect, no they do not)... EDIT: Though... in your statement you said 'firepower' was also increased, and this is only true of basic damage drones, and not the 'firepower' of ECM drones if you interpret 'firepower' losely as efficacy/strength/power. While this is true to some degree, I think you're giving it far more weight than it's worth. You usually know exactly what you want to use when you undock, you launch them when you engage, and you don't have time to switch them out if they aren't working. Besides, most of the counterarguments for why the Dominix isn't 'too nerfed' assume that you fill your hold with all of the same time of drone, and have time to go through multiple waves of that drone in combat (and they ignore the flight time of the drones). You can't use that argument at the same time as arguing that they can pick what to launch, because you've already assumed what they have loaded. I'm fairly certain they are not. Less HPs, less damage from their primary weapon, easier to target and kill them, reduction in 'overdamage-wastage' protection, and have to sacrifice more than anyone else to use the new drones yet get no bonus for it. Doesn't sound thrilling to me. Drone carriers are drone carriers, they need to be better with drones than non-drone carriers, that their entire point. |
Kaell Meynn Divergence |
Posted - 2005.11.03 08:16:00 -
[1950] Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 03/11/2005 08:18:07 Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 03/11/2005 08:15:52 I don't get your point. They get more HPs (still less than they have now, but more than other people will get, so still a nerf), but he still hasn't said there, or in either dev blog, that Dominix ECM drones get +10%/BS level to their ECM strength. Thus the only proper assumtion would be that they do not. (I just realized that by 'strength' you may have meant HPs, and not Strength as in efficacy... if you mean HPs, yes they do, if you mean strength of effect, no they do not)... EDIT: Though... in your statement you said 'firepower' was also increased, and this is only true of basic damage drones, and not the 'firepower' of ECM drones if you interpret 'firepower' losely as efficacy/strength/power. While this is true to some degree, I think you're giving it far more weight than it's worth. You usually know exactly what you want to use when you undock, you launch them when you engage, and you don't have time to switch them out if they aren't working. Besides, most of the counterarguments for why the Dominix isn't 'too nerfed' assume that you fill your hold with all of the same time of drone, and have time to go through multiple waves of that drone in combat (and they ignore the flight time of the drones). You can't use that argument at the same time as arguing that they can pick what to launch, because you've already assumed what they have loaded. I'm fairly certain they are not. Less HPs, less damage from their primary weapon, easier to target and kill them, reduction in 'overdamage-wastage' protection, and have to sacrifice more than anyone else to use the new drones yet get no bonus for it. Doesn't sound thrilling to me. Drone carriers are drone carriers, they need to be better with drones than non-drone carriers, that their entire point. |
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