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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 21 post(s) |
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CCP Dolan
C C P C C P Alliance
984
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Check out some ground breaking changes to everyone's favorite little helpers, drones.
You can find the dev blog with all it's graph and spreadsheety goodness here. CCP Dolan | Community Representative
Twitter: @CCPDolan
Gooby pls |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9538
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Looking forward to all your feedback. CCP Rise and I have been working hard on these changes and we think they'll be great for the drone ecosystem as a whole. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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CCP Logibro
C C P C C P Alliance
365
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
As someone that actually has Amarr Drone Specialization V, I'm happy that I can finally get some use out of that skill! CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites
@CCP_Logibro |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
514
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:As someone that actually has Amarr Drone Specialization V, I'm happy that I can finally get some use out of that skill!
woah, it must be like april first or something You can trust me, I have a monocole |
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CCP Logibro
C C P C C P Alliance
365
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:As someone that actually has Amarr Drone Specialization V, I'm happy that I can finally get some use out of that skill! woah, it must be like april first or something
No joke I seriously have that skill (and Caldari Drone Spec V) CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites
@CCP_Logibro |
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Antoine Jordan
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
99
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Overall, the changes look good. I didn't see any mention of change to drone behavior though. Has there been any thought to allowing bonuses to affect drone speed while they're NOT mwding? For most situtations, the mwd-orbit-mwd-orbit cycle that drones go through significantly hurts their applied dps. My understanding is that all drone speed bonuses only affect MWD speed. I could be wrong, but if not, it seems like that would be a good change.
edit: i realize this could lead to cases where drones out-track themselves by virtue of orbiting too fast? I guess this is more complicated than I initially thought. |
Anhenka
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
499
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dev Blog was really quite hazy about the some of the important bit of the Sentry Drone alterations.
With the base increase of T1 Sentries, and the 2% increase per level, will a char with say Racial Drone spec IV and all the other drone skills maxed deal equal or less damage with a set of T2 Sentries (Say Gardes) than they did previously with the same skills?
You spelled the damage changes out quite clearly for everything else, but left the effects on T2 sentries quite hazy. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2288
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Love it, one thing though.
Any chance on moving the bulk of the drone HP put of hull and evenly distributing it between hull, shield and armor? -á --á |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4529
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sounds pretty good to me. I wish you guys used this rebalance as a time to adjust fighter size (and carrier drone bay size to match), so that carriers cannot carry as many extra drones. Make them 600m3 if you are worried about subcaps being able to carry them, or better yet, make them 300m3. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
330
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec? |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9539
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Dev Blog was really quite hazy about the some of the important bit of the Sentry Drone alterations.
With the base increase of T1 Sentries, and the 2% increase per level, will a char with say Racial Drone spec IV and all the other drone skills maxed deal equal or less damage with a set of T2 Sentries (Say Gardes) than they did previously with the same skills?[
You spelled the damage changes out quite clearly for everything else, but left the effects on T2 sentries quite hazy.
This was mainly because the spelling out the details a bit more long winded for sentries since they're not changing by uniform percentages. I decided to pass along the basics and let the spreadsheet at the end provide the specifics.
In practice, damage with T2 Gardes and Bouncers will be going down a bit (but with Bouncers gaining a lot of tracking and Gardes gaining a fair amount of falloff) while damage with T2 Curators and Wardens goes up a bit. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
11563
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Every drone needs a helping hand.
/c
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Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2792
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
let me get this straight
instead of posting unfunny april fools' articles you're making a comprehensive, long-awaited balance pass on eve's most ubiquitous weapons system
... this is an outrage. contacting csm with angry evemail |
Sala Cameron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
177
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quite excited about these changes, and now they're finally posted @sala_cameron |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9539
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec?
The opportunities for confusion about the crimewarch implications of actions (the pilot who assisted the drones would lose sec status and get gate guns without any direct action on their part) means this is not something we plan to change.
Drone assist will continue to be a mechanic that is somewhat limited in empire space, along with other mechanics such as bombs and bubbles. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
1206
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yay, more skills for relatively new players to train! |
Myxx
689
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
this is april fools, right?
... right?
I'm not sure if i can take anything seriously yet or not. I'll wait til tomorrow to see if this is still around. |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
330
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Good to see lowsec is still a solid meh out of ten in your current 'iteration' plans. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
584
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
balance stuff is supposed to go in F&I
are we going to get medium drones on medium drone ships, or is it only going to be on special snowflake gurista ships?
when are my 8km/s warrior IIs going to be able to kill a 5km/s frigate?
and lastly, and can you actually do this: can you make sentry damage rigs into just drone damage rigs?
edit: don't be jealous of my drone skills |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises StarFleet.
149
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Rename the blog Fozzie. It was misleading. |
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Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
153
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
So when are you rebalancing ishtars? |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3277
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec?
As I feel bad for the residents of lowsec, I'll have you know that I'm not only lobbying for lowsec assist to be fixed but also for the cap to be removed in lowsec only. If I'm successful, you, too, will be able to experience the pinnacle of elite pvp. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Capqu
Love Squad
415
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
none of this explains why heavy (read: at LEAST a cruise sized weapon system) drones have the same tracking as an interceptor, and why the damage:range:tracking statistics of sentries are way above any other weapon system in the game http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2288
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Wasn't there also some talk about increasing the Optimal Range on heavy drones also? -á --á |
Antoine Jordan
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
99
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote: when are my 8km/s warrior IIs going to be able to kill a 5km/s frigate?
this is what I was talking about! I don't think I fully understand the mechanics behind why it happens, though. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
584
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Antoine Jordan wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote: when are my 8km/s warrior IIs going to be able to kill a 5km/s frigate?
this is what I was talking about! I don't think I fully understand the mechanics behind why it happens, though.
it's because drones MWD to the target, then MWD off, then the target flies 50km away and takes no damage, and then the drones MWD up to them again, etc. they are very infrequently in range to hit the target.
basically CCP are bad and it's too difficult to fix it or something when they can buff mining barges instead. |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
343
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 17:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Looking forward to all your feedback. CCP Rise and I have been working hard on these changes and we think they'll be great for the drone ecosystem as a whole.
If this is a troll I will pod you!
Quote:We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation. This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill. During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to.
Be aware of the side effect this is going to have on new players wanting to fly the Algos. To reach its full potential you will need to train both light and medium drones. This previously was done with one skill but now will require two. Same thing goes for the Vexor. In both cases you will need to train for three weapon system to fully use the ship. This is not new player friendly.
Are you going to change the bandwidth/bonus on these ships? |
Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
49
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
If racial drone skills will now be required to use T2 sentries, will those with Sentry Drone Interfacing V been getting any skills credited for racial drones or will they simply lose access to any drones they do not have the racial skills already trained for? |
Djeli
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
While each item listed has always been a concern for me for years, I would like to see other things addressed too. While the Tristan has had a special place in my heart since beta and still does, I always felt uncomfortable how an anti-frigate weapon is on this frigate in such quantity. I am glad for the inventive controls CCP has introduced into the game since then in terms of drone bay and drone bandwidth, but to me it sits better if the Tristan were changed to a repair effectiveness bonus and being the little brother to the brutix and hyperion.
I forsee the vexor now having a change to medium and light drone damage and hopefully a drone bandwidth change to match. Heavy drones felt a bit out of place on a Vexor, another favorite of mine. Fortunately with the change proposed changes, that can easily be rectified if so desired. |
Mindo Junde
Bunnie Slayers Redrum Fleet
0
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Look interesting. One thing though
If you want the integrated drones to be more used, then i suggest you allow the bpc's to drop in more places, at reduced rates, in other areas of EVE. |
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Womyn Power
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
64
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
when can we expect missile application lows or mids? or even missile range lows or mids?
it's pretty hilarious drones are getting omni lows before missiles get any kind of application that isn't a rig
how about a t3 bc that uses missiles?
how about un-nerfing heavies?
the drake wasn't anywhere near what you've made the ishtar |
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1711
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Posted - 2014.04.01 17:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
> buffing supers
why, god. Why |
Angry Mustache
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
154
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
All hail wyvernfleet. An official Member of the Goonswarm Federation Complaints Department.
vote Angry Mustache for CSM9-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326509&find=unread |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
584
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:> buffing supers
why, god. Why
they're also buffing broken level 5 mission running carriers |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
344
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Overall looks good. Only part that bothered me was this:
Quote:Currently drones are a very skill-intensive weapon system, thanks to the legacy of the original drone implementation years ago.
So you're fixing the fact that drones are very skill-intensive by...adding another drone skill that newbies will need to train in order to use medium drones? |
iskflakes
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
Will supers be able to fit a 10 fighters and 10 fighter bombers simultaneously?
This seems like a good buff. - |
Midori Tsu
Evolution Northern Coalition.
124
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Obil Que wrote:If racial drone skills will now be required to use T2 sentries, will those with Sentry Drone Interfacing V been getting any skills credited for racial drones or will they simply lose access to any drones they do not have the racial skills already trained for?
I'm worried about this as well. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3805
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:> buffing supers
why, god. Why
Are they truly buffing supers?
Quote:To compensate for these changes, the base damage of Fighters and Fighter Bombers is being reduced. Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions. Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates, and any additional or higher quality Drone Damage Amplifiers will increase their damage above and beyond current maximums.
Carriers are getting a pretty significant buff.
Supercarriers are getting a nerf. They need to use 2 lows for DDA2's to maintain their current damage level. That means Aeons and Nyx's either have significantly reduced damage (-40%) or must sacrifice a HUGE amount of tank (-2 Hardeners) to maintain their current damage output.
That's one hell of a ******* nerf! |
Taru Audeles
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Don't you guys have some REAL bugs to fix ? Nice waist of time writing such bullshit that never will make it into the game. Do your jobs guys and actually FIX some stuff.
And NO this is not an april first post. At least mine is not |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
67
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Those lowslot omnis, will they be a passive unscripted equivalent to TEs? |
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Capqu
Love Squad
416
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
i understand why you give drones such high tracking, because they orbit so fast that their own speed would make them do no damage to even their intended targets without it. that makes sense.
so compensate somehow, perhaps by giving heavies the same signature resolution as battleship guns instead of cruiser, so that they don't perfectly track interceptors. you're making them faster, which would be fine if they didn't pose such a huge threat to frigates
as for sentries, they don't have the same problem with their own speed wrecking their tracking, so they don't need the massive tracking advantages they have over other similar weapon systems. compare garde ii tracking vs rails or range vs blasters and you can instantly see something is wrong. "but you can just destroy the drones" stopped being an argument when you introduced mobile "as many drones as you can carry" depots
i mean the blog is cool and all and amarr drones did need a buff but i'm seriously disappointed that the tracking issues around drones plaguing eve atm isn't being even mentioned http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6786
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:09:00 -
[42] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Supercarriers are getting a nerf. They need to use 2 lows for DDA2's to maintain their current damage level. That means Aeons and Nyx's either have significantly reduced damage (-40%) or must sacrifice a HUGE amount of tank (-2 Hardeners) to maintain their current damage output.
That's one hell of a ******* nerf!
on the other hand, it's no longer trivial to defang them Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
251
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
It's happening *_* |
Phacops Alabel
Physics Says No
0
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
This all looks good. Is there any chance of you guys looking at the drone UI. Some buttons on the HUD that would launch, recall, engage etc drones would be awesome. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3805
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Supercarriers are getting a nerf. They need to use 2 lows for DDA2's to maintain their current damage level. That means Aeons and Nyx's either have significantly reduced damage (-40%) or must sacrifice a HUGE amount of tank (-2 Hardeners) to maintain their current damage output.
That's one hell of a ******* nerf!
on the other hand, it's no longer trivial to defang them
Don't take my post wrong... I fully support this change, as I think all ships should have to make fitting choices. This puts real fitting choices on the super pilot: Heavy tank vs Heavy Damage (for armor supers at least).
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PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
470
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
Is there any plan to address the racial balance of the fighters as well? Or give the fighters a MWD bump like the heavies got? |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6786
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Weaselior wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Supercarriers are getting a nerf. They need to use 2 lows for DDA2's to maintain their current damage level. That means Aeons and Nyx's either have significantly reduced damage (-40%) or must sacrifice a HUGE amount of tank (-2 Hardeners) to maintain their current damage output.
That's one hell of a ******* nerf!
on the other hand, it's no longer trivial to defang them Don't take my post wrong... I fully support this change, as I think all ships should have to make fitting choices. This puts real fitting choices on the super pilot: Heavy tank vs Heavy Damage (for armor supers at least). I more disagree they're getting a nerf. I think in practice the two changes combine to buff supercarriers. Sure, nyx/aeon paper dps goes down if they're fitting full tank, but in practice they'd just get their fbs bombed away anytime they were in a fight they'd fit for tank. So the net benefit is they get more real DPS in a slugfight, and more dps in a gank. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Hachi Ironfist
BrainWorks Industries
108
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
So Gallente is hit hard by the nerf bat... |
Haiyooo
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
This better be a joke |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
255
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
buff drones huehuehue
But no seriously, was really hoping to see a more significant boost to regular Fighters. Their current state is pretty ridiculous - as is they're expensive, take up waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much room, and can't hit stuff. (But you already knew that.) Do you have graphs on Fighter use vs other drone types (Sentries for example)? Those would be interesting to see. Core Skills | EVE Music |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
584
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:Is there any plan to address the racial balance of the fighters as well? Or give the fighters a MWD bump like the heavies got?
fighters shouldn't even exist |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1079
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
Good changes overall. Does the newly rechristened "Advanced Drone Avionics" still require Electronic Warfare IV?
If not, whither EWAR drones? (Stop laughing.) Actually, if they got their own skill (see also: Logistics drones), you could tactically hand out EWAR drone bonuses to ships that are starved for mid slots--after you fix them, anyway. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1086
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
So the Ishtar will remain the only heavy assault cruiser with a 400m sig radius weapon. The other races too want a T2 cruiser with large guns ! Even better, you're actually BUFFING them. Seriously? :(
Oh, without mentionning that sentries have an indecent tracking and alpha relatively to their dps and compared to other medium guns.
Dissapointed to see no change for that. Signature Tanking - Best Tanking.
Proposed change for ECM - Not chance based - not max target reduction based |
Jeinvay Kunsu
Br0wn Coat5
8
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
Right then, i read the blog, and was nodding in approval.....until i reached the bottom. I've been training for SCs for a while now, and was really looking forward to crapping fighters all over the place one day. Now it looks like that training is teeny bit of a waste.
WHY would you reduce the super-carrier drone amounts from 20 to 10, when the carriers, which are a hull class BELOW supers, can field 15? I wouldn't be so baffled by the supercarrier drone deployment nerf if this made any sense. The word 'SUPER' in super carrier implies that it is superior to its predecessor.
I could just be overreacting, but it would make more sense to me if the carriers could field less fighters than the supercarriers could by default. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
337
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
What racial drone spec skill will affect Shadow bombers? |
Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
292
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
So will Omnis also affect Fighters and FiBos now? |
Lykouleon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1325
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:19:00 -
[57] - Quote
Hopefully this is also a step down the road of making the drone AI better as well. I'm getting really tired of having to rename my new drones "Fido" every time one of the other ones "accidentally mistakes Fido for the red-cross menace and/or a blue." Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6786
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:20:00 -
[58] - Quote
Jeinvay Kunsu wrote:WHY would you reduce the super-carrier drone amounts from 20 to 10, when the carriers, which are a hull class BELOW supers, can field 15? I wouldn't be so baffled by the supercarrier drone because any supercarrier pilot prefers one fb with double the hp and damage to two fbs with normal hp and damage
the reason why is that bombers love bombing fighter-bombers and with the double hp fb it is much harder to bomb away all your dps
basically use your noggin instead of your feels when it comes to numbers Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
iskflakes
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:What racial drone spec skill will affect Shadow bombers?
I think those specs only affect T2 drones.
- |
Reizak StormFury
Engineering Evolutions Limited Gatekeepers Universe
20
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Posted - 2014.04.01 18:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTcVprNH3ns
Says it all I reckon. |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6786
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:22:00 -
[61] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:What racial drone spec skill will affect Shadow bombers? none: they are t1 Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
470
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:22:00 -
[62] - Quote
Jeinvay Kunsu wrote:Right then, i read the blog, and was nodding in approval.....until i reached the bottom. I've been training for SCs for a while now, and was really looking forward to crapping fighters all over the place one day. Now it looks like that training is teeny bit of a waste.
WHY would you reduce the super-carrier drone amounts from 20 to 10, when the carriers, which are a hull class BELOW supers, can field 15? I wouldn't be so baffled by the supercarrier drone deployment nerf if this made any sense. The word 'SUPER' in super carrier implies that it is superior to its predecessor.
I could just be overreacting, but it would make more sense to me if the carriers could field less fighters than the supercarriers could by default.
Fit your SC with drone control units and you too can field 15. |
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
598
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:22:00 -
[63] - Quote
Maxed skilled aeon pilot can fit 4x X-type, 1x EANM, 1x DCU and 2x Officer DDA's and have the same tank a Nyx with 4x X-type, 2x EANM, 1x DCU and 0x DDA's.
Officer DDA's offer 28% increase in damage per DDA. Only reason to fly a nyx after this is its looks :(
Coreli Corporation: Small gang PVP & Drug Production, Apply now! |
leich
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
42
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:22:00 -
[64] - Quote
"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"
but
"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load"
as these two lines contradict each other are they nerfing supers or not
and if they are why would you reduce super damage they need a massive buff please fix.
|
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9541
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:23:00 -
[65] - Quote
Lucas Quaan wrote:Those lowslot omnis, will they be a passive unscripted equivalent to TEs? Yes, they will work in exactly the same way as TEs.
penifSMASH wrote:What racial drone spec skill will affect Shadow bombers? Shadows (like all fighters and fighter bombers) are T1, and the racial drone spec skills only affect T2 drones.
Aineko Macx wrote:So will Omnis also affect Fighters and FiBos now? Fighters, yes. Fighter Bombers, no since FiBos use a modified missile formula instead of tracking and optimal range attributes. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9541
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:24:00 -
[66] - Quote
leich wrote:"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"
but
"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load"
as these two lines contradict each other are they nerfing supers or not
and if they are why would you reduce super damage they need a massive buff please fix.
We expect that Supercarrier pilots will make use of Drone Damage Amplifiers as they see fit. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
iskflakes
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:25:00 -
[67] - Quote
So, 5 DCU, 15 fighters, 4 DDA, 2 tracking mods on a shield nyx makes a subcap killing machine.
Edit: With capital drone speed rigs - |
Degalo
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
leich wrote:"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"
but
"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load"
as these two lines contradict each other are they nerfing supers or not
and if they are why would you reduce super damage they need a massive buff please fix.
This.
The way you propose actually nerfs non-nyx supercarrier damage by 18% from current levels - assuming max skills and no damage mods.
That needs to be fixed. Reduction in number of FBs - fine, but there is no reason to nerf them further into oblivion by reducing their damage by 18% at the same time.
Fix it. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6786
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
Is the massive bonus for DCUs on supercarriers intended? I think it makes sense, just wondering if it's intentional or liable to be changed. Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Degalo
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:26:00 -
[70] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:leich wrote:"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"
but
"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load"
as these two lines contradict each other are they nerfing supers or not
and if they are why would you reduce super damage they need a massive buff please fix. We expect that Supercarrier pilots will make use of Drone Damage Amplifiers as they see fit.
How about you actually do what the first part says and keep the damage current, instead of further crippling supercarriers? |
|
Womyn Power
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
64
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:27:00 -
[71] - Quote
fozzie why is the sig resolution on heavies 125m instead of 400m like all other large weapon systems? |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3805
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Weaselior wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Supercarriers are getting a nerf. They need to use 2 lows for DDA2's to maintain their current damage level. That means Aeons and Nyx's either have significantly reduced damage (-40%) or must sacrifice a HUGE amount of tank (-2 Hardeners) to maintain their current damage output.
That's one hell of a ******* nerf!
on the other hand, it's no longer trivial to defang them Don't take my post wrong... I fully support this change, as I think all ships should have to make fitting choices. This puts real fitting choices on the super pilot: Heavy tank vs Heavy Damage (for armor supers at least). I more disagree they're getting a nerf. I think in practice the two changes combine to buff supercarriers. Sure, nyx/aeon paper dps goes down if they're fitting full tank, but in practice they'd just get their fbs bombed away anytime they were in a fight they'd fit for tank. So the net benefit is they get more real DPS in a slugfight, and more dps in a gank.
Perhaps you are correct. Having the drone support skills applied to Fighters and Fighter Bombers will have a big impact on their applied DPS. And the ability to use mods to alter fighterbombers will have a big impact as pilots tweak their fit for the task at hand.
|
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
69
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:28:00 -
[73] - Quote
The Skill Drone Interfacing as well as giving a damage increase also gives a drone mining yield bonus of 20% per level.
Will this be changing? If you just change the percentages I guess so. Otherwise you will need to adjust mining drone yield to compensate just like you are doing for damage.
|
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1454
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:28:00 -
[74] - Quote
Looks really good. Appreciate the focus!
Especially on integrated and augmented drones! GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
598
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
Fozzie any chance we can get some tweaks to the Nyx/Aeon to rebalance this issue;
Joshua Foiritain wrote:Maxed skilled Aeon pilot can fit 4x X-type, 1x EANM, 1x DCU and 2x Officer DDA's and have the same tank a Nyx with 4x X-type, 2x EANM, 1x DCU and 0x DDA's. Officer DDA's offer 28% increase in damage per DDA which means the Aeon will outdps the Nyx by quite a lot. Only reason to fly a Nyx after this is its awesome looks
Coreli Corporation: Small gang PVP & Drug Production, Apply now! |
Draconus Lofwyr
UK Corp RAZOR Alliance
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
how will this affect the use of the Drone Control Unit, with the volume changes. or even the DPS potential. this would be a huge buff to the DCU's but nerf the versatility of supers to carry any spares or fighters for versatility, as well as making refitting that much more of a pain in the arse. with these changes, is there any point in preventing supercarriers from docking anymore? |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
486
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
Well and good I suppose. I can see where this could lay the groundwork for gettijg drones the attention they need, and certainly addresses many of the PvP shortcomings.
How about PvE? Drones still need some balance there. They get eaten constantly by the new hungry ai, with few to no tools to make the usable on a consistant basis as a primary weapon. Either significant upgrades to drone survivability are needed, or some sort of reliable system for managing npc aggro. I suppose making all drones radically cheaper so they are more in line with the cost of ammo would work too. |
The Warfish
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:31:00 -
[78] - Quote
I appreciate the thought CCP, but:
So, I am an RP *** and Aethetics *** who loves Amarr Drones.
Tell me....
...in what circumstances would it be worth it losing speed (vs. Minny Drones) or Damage (vs. Gallente Drones) to utilize the Amarr Drones after the fix?
Cause I'm still not seeing them as all that useful.
Drones have two jobs in EVE and two only: Kill Tackler Frigates (speed/tracking is king, use Minny Drones) and pure DPS (Damage Bonus is king, use Gallente Drones).
Why would I slow my anti-fast-**** drones down? Why would I lower my damage when damage is what counts?
/shrug, outside RP reasons, I don't see many switching to Amarr/Caldari drones tbqh, especially since most drone users and vets probably have Gall and Minn Drone spec to at least 4 if not 5, and Amarr/Caldari Spec not even trained.
A better idea would probably have been to make Gallente and Amarr equal all down the line (big tough slow DPS) and Caldari/Minny Drones equal (fast, accurate).
Then the choice comes down to damge type and purpose, with EM/Therm DPS and Kin/Explo Speed options. |
leich
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
42
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:32:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:leich wrote:"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"
but
"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load"
as these two lines contradict each other are they nerfing supers or not
and if they are why would you reduce super damage they need a massive buff please fix. We expect that Supercarrier pilots will make use of Drone Damage Amplifiers as they see fit.
well that was a politician's answer if ever i saw one.
why do armor supers require a damage reduction? |
Edmark I
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
82
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:33:00 -
[80] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Grarr Dexx wrote:So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec? As I feel bad for the residents of lowsec, I'll have you know that I'm not only lobbying for lowsec assist to be fixed but also for the cap to be removed in lowsec only. If I'm successful, you, too, will be able to experience the pinnacle of elite pvp.
ishtar gangs?
|
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
585
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:33:00 -
[81] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Well and good I suppose. I can see where this could lay the groundwork for gettijg drones the attention they need, and certainly addresses many of the PvP shortcomings.
How about PvE? Drones still need some balance there. They get eaten constantly by the new hungry ai, with few to no tools to make the usable on a consistant basis as a primary weapon. Either significant upgrades to drone survivability are needed, or some sort of reliable system for managing npc aggro. I suppose making all drones radically cheaper so they are more in line with the cost of ammo would work too.
NPC AI needs more than that. carebears are now immune to tackle frigates, because the rats instantly kill them. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
897
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:36:00 -
[82] - Quote
I like it. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
365
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
Was excitedly expecting an long overdue update to the drone interface.
Was left surprisingly unsurprised..... I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Rena Monachica
Capital Hot Rods
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:38:00 -
[84] - Quote
Quote: from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries.
could we get more info on that? Please don-¦t tell me that a T2 Sentry needs Racial Skill V |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
470
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:40:00 -
[85] - Quote
The Warfish wrote:I appreciate the thought CCP, but:
So, I am an RP *** and Aethetics *** who loves Amarr Drones.
Tell me....
...in what circumstances would it be worth it losing speed (vs. Minny Drones) or Damage (vs. Gallente Drones) to utilize the Amarr Drones after the fix?
Cause I'm still not seeing them as all that useful.
Drones have two jobs in EVE and two only: Kill Tackler Frigates (speed/tracking is king, use Minny Drones) and pure DPS (Damage Bonus is king, use Gallente Drones).
Why would I slow my anti-fast-**** drones down? Why would I lower my damage when damage is what counts?
/shrug, outside RP reasons, I don't see many switching to Amarr/Caldari drones tbqh, especially since most drone users and vets probably have Gall and Minn Drone spec to at least 4 if not 5, and Amarr/Caldari Spec not even trained.
A better idea would probably have been to make Gallente and Amarr equal all down the line (big tough slow DPS) and Caldari/Minny Drones equal (fast, accurate).
Then the choice comes down to damge type and purpose, with EM/Therm DPS and Kin/Explo Speed options.
For a mix of the two. It is now easier to decide on the spectrum which is more important, speed or DPS. If you want only dps, go Gallente, if you want only speed go Minmatar, if you want mostly speed go Amarr, and if you want mostly DPS go Caldari.
Not that hard.
|
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
897
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:40:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote: How about PvE? Drones still need some balance there. They get eaten constantly by the new hungry ai, with few to no tools to make the usable on a consistant basis as a primary weapon.
Huh? I very very rarely lose drones to npc. Most of the time it's my own fault.
Both full drones ship like Dominix and ships that use them as support like Machariel / Cyna have no trouble in level 4 sites and in lowsec DED sites. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
470
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:41:00 -
[87] - Quote
Rena Monachica wrote:Quote: from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries.
could we get more info on that? Please don-¦t tell me that a T2 Sentry needs Racial Skill V
Likely just 1, as most weapon systems only require specialization 1 to use (see guns/missiles for examples) |
TheButcherPete
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
416
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
If this isn't an April Fool's joke, then I love you forever, CCP.
If it is, I hate you. >:(
also wtb: a drone UI from this decade THE KING OF EVE RADIO
ElQuirko is my son |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1357
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:42:00 -
[89] - Quote
A surprising number of pilots are in full denial about the supercarrier changes citing the date this blog was published.
Maybe repost it tomorrow... |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
3805
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:43:00 -
[90] - Quote
Will Supers be able to utilize drone control units to achieve truly spectacular damage output with fighterbombers? Or is this limited by drone bandwidth?
|
|
iskflakes
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:43:00 -
[91] - Quote
TheButcherPete wrote:If this isn't an April Fool's joke, then I love you forever, CCP.
If it is, I hate you. >:(
also wtb: a drone UI from this decade
This changes are too sensible to be an april fools. They fix most of what's stupid about the current drone system.
..but that's also a reason it's more likely to be a joke :(
I want my subcap blending shield nyx :( - |
Phoenix Jones
Dropbears Anonymous Brave Collective
456
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:45:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Grarr Dexx wrote:So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec? The opportunities for confusion about the crimewarch implications of actions (the pilot who assisted the drones would lose sec status and get gate guns without any direct action on their part) means this is not something we plan to change. Drone assist will continue to be a mechanic that is somewhat limited in empire space, along with other mechanics such as bombs and bubbles.
All for change... Though would people really use amarr and caldari drones..?
Not to suggest change, but have you thought about making drones racial ship specific.
It still seems ships are somewhat locked into using minmatar and gallente drones.. Besides that though, the changes look good.. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|
The Warfish
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:46:00 -
[93] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:The Warfish wrote:I appreciate the thought CCP, but:
So, I am an RP *** and Aethetics *** who loves Amarr Drones.
Tell me....
...in what circumstances would it be worth it losing speed (vs. Minny Drones) or Damage (vs. Gallente Drones) to utilize the Amarr Drones after the fix?
Cause I'm still not seeing them as all that useful.
Drones have two jobs in EVE and two only: Kill Tackler Frigates (speed/tracking is king, use Minny Drones) and pure DPS (Damage Bonus is king, use Gallente Drones).
Why would I slow my anti-fast-**** drones down? Why would I lower my damage when damage is what counts?
/shrug, outside RP reasons, I don't see many switching to Amarr/Caldari drones tbqh, especially since most drone users and vets probably have Gall and Minn Drone spec to at least 4 if not 5, and Amarr/Caldari Spec not even trained.
A better idea would probably have been to make Gallente and Amarr equal all down the line (big tough slow DPS) and Caldari/Minny Drones equal (fast, accurate).
Then the choice comes down to damge type and purpose, with EM/Therm DPS and Kin/Explo Speed options. For a mix of the two. It is now easier to decide on the spectrum which is more important, speed or DPS. If you want only dps, go Gallente, if you want only speed go Minmatar, if you want mostly speed go Amarr, and if you want mostly DPS go Caldari. Not that hard.
Apparently it is.
Please tell us when "a mix of the two" is superior to the best DPS (Gall) or the best Tracking/Speed (Minn). Thats the question.
Nobody who plays EVE wants "mostly", they want best-at-role. And since Drones do two things and two things only, kill/chase off tacklers (where all that matters is best speed/tracking) and lay down DPS (where Amarr can never catch up to Gall), having "mostly" is a decision that is effectively self-nerfing.
So.....tell us my friend, what situations you want to self-nerf yourself in by having "mostly" instead of "best". |
Jaari Val'Dara
Wormbro Ocularis Inferno
76
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:48:00 -
[94] - Quote
So as I understand the tech 2 sentries will be getting a damage nerf, right? |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
330
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:49:00 -
[95] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote: How about PvE? Drones still need some balance there. They get eaten constantly by the new hungry ai, with few to no tools to make the usable on a consistant basis as a primary weapon.
Huh? I very very rarely lose drones to npc. Most of the time it's my own fault. Both full drones ship like Dominix and ships that use them as support like Machariel / Cyna have no trouble in level 4 sites and in lowsec DED sites.
Ever tried using a Rattlesnake in level 5s? There's a bunch of missions where there are enough frigates that all switch damage at the same time and are very proficient in instapopping sentries. |
Vicar2008
Mindstar Technology Get Off My Lawn
75
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:49:00 -
[96] - Quote
Whats about Drone Implants, is this still not a thing CCP! Gunnery implants check, Missile Implants check, Drone implants....... ?? |
Atomic Option
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
82
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:50:00 -
[97] - Quote
I find it really odd that you're making the Damage <-> Distance tradeoff for sentry drones a different racial order from the same tradeoff for smaller drones.
Shouldn't sentries, by range, be Gallente->Caldari->Amarr->Minmatar like smaller drones are by speed?
And while we're on the subject, have you talked to the lore guys about the order of Caldari and Amarr here? It seems obvious that Gallente is short range/large damage considering the analogy with blasters, but Caldari rails vs Amarr lasers aren't so clear to me.
|
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
55
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:53:00 -
[98] - Quote
The Thanny and the Nyx Should get the standard bonus of 10% to drone damage and hit points after these changes to keep it uniform.
|
Bariolage
Control F9
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:53:00 -
[99] - Quote
Nice! Adding some additional UI and AI drone work on top of this would be so great. I'm crossing my fingers that another team and another dev blog will cover that. |
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:55:00 -
[100] - Quote
While you're at it, please make the Drone Control Unit as passive module. Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!https://twitter.com/EVE_MHarmlesss-á |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20382
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:56:00 -
[101] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:For a mix of the two. It is now easier to decide on the spectrum which is more important, speed or DPS. If you want only dps, go Gallente, if you want only speed go Minmatar, if you want mostly speed go Amarr, and if you want mostly DPS go Caldari.
Not that hard. That's the problem: it's a mediocre mix of two things with no advantage in either. That is exactly what we already have and it is already not working. Making it not work more consistently and evenly doesn't fix the problem that it doesn't work.
The problem here is that they're trying to balance four drones with just two stats. That means that we will have two drones that matter GÇö the ones that max out one of stats GÇö and two that (still) don't GÇö the ones that offer no advantage. To have that kind of difference-balance, they need more relevant stats so that the two irrelevant drones have an area to excel in. Fundamentally, the problem is this pretty silly notion that they must do different amounts of damage and that this notion ignores the fact that resistances and damage profiles already does that.
Amarr drones will be pointless against fast target GÇö you'll want minny drones for that for the simple reason that if you pick too slow a drone, it doesn't matter whether it does the right damage type or not since it won't catch the target. Amarr drones will still be pointless against EM-weak targets GÇö resist weaknesses can only be relied upon against rats, and all EM-weak rats are also thermal-weak, so you'll still want gallente drones against those. Likewise, Caldari drones will be pointless against tough targets GÇö you'll want the most damage against those and that's still Gallente drones, and you gain no real advantage from getting to the tough target slightly faster. And for kinetic-weak targets, it's the same problem with Caldari drones as for Amarr drones GÇö it's only an advantage if you can reliably predict it, which means it's only relevant against rats and kn-weak rats will be thermal-weak anyway. Hell, even now, there's an actual advantage in using Caldari drones against kn-weak rats and look how popular they are as a resultGǪ At no point will these weak drones offer any kind of compelling advantage or useful application over the two races that max out one of the stats. Middle-of-the-road mediocrity is not a convincing selling point over specialised excellence.
So as long as they keep that same wrong-headed design patter, where four drones are squeezed into a two-dimensional continuum, two of those drones will always be meaningless. There's really no reason to separate the drones in damage output at all. Just make them do the same damage and let resists matter, and then find three other characteristics that can be used as a trade-off for speed, and where each drone race has its own distinct advantage. If they can't find three characteristics, then skip the speed differentiation as well, and just let the damage type be the only differentiator. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Arclight OmniSystem Enterprises Arclight Consolidated
55
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:57:00 -
[102] - Quote
I love these changes, i really hope this int an april fools thing. Eat Lead!!! Err....Antimatter...whatever! |
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
160
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:57:00 -
[103] - Quote
So are you making "Focus Fire" work yet? TSCA - Free 3rd Party & Collateral Holding Service - POS Deployment Corp Sale/Boosting |
Tikktokk Tokkzikk
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
162
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 18:59:00 -
[104] - Quote
I still don't see a use for Caldari and Amarr drone. I will still use Minmatar for all my anti-frig needs and Gallente for pure brawly DPS. Caldari and Amarr need their own niche. Something like Caldari getting slightly more shield HP and crazy shield recharge and Amarr getting a crazy armor brick tank. |
Callic Veratar
595
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:00:00 -
[105] - Quote
The Warfish wrote:Apparently it is.
Please tell us when "a mix of the two" is superior to the best DPS (Gall) or the best Tracking/Speed (Minn). Thats the question.
Nobody who plays EVE wants "mostly", they want best-at-role. And since Drones do two things and two things only, kill/chase off tacklers (where all that matters is best speed/tracking) and lay down DPS (where Amarr can never catch up to Gall), having "mostly" is a decision that is effectively self-nerfing.
So.....tell us my friend, what situations you want to self-nerf yourself in by having "mostly" instead of "best".
Rather than comparing pure numbers, also consider you're switching damage types. Yes, the Amarr drones are slower than Minmatar, but they'll do a much better job at hitting low EM resist. |
iskflakes
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:01:00 -
[106] - Quote
Fozzie, can you clarify "We are also reducing the maximum number of drones available to Supercarriers from the current 20 to 10"?
I assume this means they can launch 10 fighters or 10 fighter bombers.
1) Do drone bay sizes change?
2) Do fighters double in size the same as fighter bombers?
After the changes, will all supers be able to carry a full set of 10 fighters, and 10 fighter bombers? OR, will they be able to carry a full set of fighter bombers, and half a flight of fighters (as is the current situation)? - |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
470
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:02:00 -
[107] - Quote
The Warfish wrote:PinkKnife wrote:The Warfish wrote:I appreciate the thought CCP, but:
So, I am an RP *** and Aethetics *** who loves Amarr Drones.
Tell me....
...in what circumstances would it be worth it losing speed (vs. Minny Drones) or Damage (vs. Gallente Drones) to utilize the Amarr Drones after the fix?
Cause I'm still not seeing them as all that useful.
Drones have two jobs in EVE and two only: Kill Tackler Frigates (speed/tracking is king, use Minny Drones) and pure DPS (Damage Bonus is king, use Gallente Drones).
Why would I slow my anti-fast-**** drones down? Why would I lower my damage when damage is what counts?
/shrug, outside RP reasons, I don't see many switching to Amarr/Caldari drones tbqh, especially since most drone users and vets probably have Gall and Minn Drone spec to at least 4 if not 5, and Amarr/Caldari Spec not even trained.
A better idea would probably have been to make Gallente and Amarr equal all down the line (big tough slow DPS) and Caldari/Minny Drones equal (fast, accurate).
Then the choice comes down to damge type and purpose, with EM/Therm DPS and Kin/Explo Speed options. For a mix of the two. It is now easier to decide on the spectrum which is more important, speed or DPS. If you want only dps, go Gallente, if you want only speed go Minmatar, if you want mostly speed go Amarr, and if you want mostly DPS go Caldari. Not that hard. Apparently it is. Please tell us when "a mix of the two" is superior to the best DPS (Gall) or the best Tracking/Speed (Minn). Thats the question. Nobody who plays EVE wants "mostly", they want best-at-role. And since Drones do two things and two things only, kill/chase off tacklers (where all that matters is best speed/tracking) and lay down DPS (where Amarr can never catch up to Gall), having "mostly" is a decision that is effectively self-nerfing. So.....tell us my friend, what situations you want to self-nerf yourself in by having "mostly" instead of "best".
I didnt mean mix as in 2 amarr 3 gallente, I meant as a mix of dps/speed. Maybe I find Gallentte drones too slow, but still like having more DPS than minmatar drones. That's when I would go with Caldari. Not a hard decision.
There is no "best-at" role anymore, so pick your flavor and go with it.
Gallente have tracking problems on fast frigates, Minmatar are unideal for slower targets that can be hit by higher damage drones. Use one of the others as a compromise for non perfect scenarios. As I said, not that hard. |
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
598
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:02:00 -
[108] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:Fozzie, can you clarify "We are also reducing the maximum number of drones available to Supercarriers from the current 20 to 10"?
I assume this means they can launch 10 fighters or 10 fighter bombers.
1) Do drone bay sizes change?
2) Do fighters double in size the same as fighter bombers?
After the changes, will all supers be able to carry a full set of 10 fighters, and 10 fighter bombers? OR, will they be able to carry a full set of fighter bombers, and half a flight of fighters (as is the current situation)? Its mentioned in his blog, the drone bay size is getting nerfed down to half to match this.
Coreli Corporation: Small gang PVP & Drug Production, Apply now! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20382
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:04:00 -
[109] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:Rather than comparing pure numbers, also consider you're switching damage types. Yes, the Amarr drones are slower than Minmatar, but they'll do a much better job at hitting low EM resist. If you're making a damage type choice, it's most likely because you're going after rats. If you're going after rats, you don't need the speed, and Gallente drones will do more damage (since all EM-weak rats are also Th-weak).
If you're going after a fast target, which is the better choice: a drone that has a higher chance of catching the target but which might do slightly less damage, or a drone which might not catch the target, but does more damage on the off chance that it does. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mortvvs
Snuff Box
43
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:05:00 -
[110] - Quote
Fredric Wolf wrote:The Thanny and the Nyx Should get the standard bonus of 10% to drone damage and hit points after these changes to keep it uniform.
I haven't seen anything about that bonus getting removed. FREE FILINGO |
|
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1504
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:06:00 -
[111] - Quote
Interesting |
iskflakes
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:07:00 -
[112] - Quote
Joshua Foiritain wrote:iskflakes wrote:Fozzie, can you clarify "We are also reducing the maximum number of drones available to Supercarriers from the current 20 to 10"?
I assume this means they can launch 10 fighters or 10 fighter bombers.
1) Do drone bay sizes change?
2) Do fighters double in size the same as fighter bombers?
After the changes, will all supers be able to carry a full set of 10 fighters, and 10 fighter bombers? OR, will they be able to carry a full set of fighter bombers, and half a flight of fighters (as is the current situation)? Its mentioned in his blog, the drone bay size is getting nerfed down to half to match this.
I don't see that. It only mentions fighter bomber size change? - |
Novah Soul
90
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:07:00 -
[113] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Looking forward to all your feedback. CCP Rise and I have been working hard on these changes and we think they'll be great for the drone ecosystem as a whole. On first glance the changes seem fairly solid. but I was wondering if there is an ETA on a revamp on the Drone-UI? That thing has been God-awful for so long I hate using drones just so I can use that as little as possible. |
Draconus Lofwyr
UK Corp RAZOR Alliance
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:07:00 -
[114] - Quote
Joshua Foiritain wrote:iskflakes wrote:Fozzie, can you clarify "We are also reducing the maximum number of drones available to Supercarriers from the current 20 to 10"?
I assume this means they can launch 10 fighters or 10 fighter bombers.
1) Do drone bay sizes change?
2) Do fighters double in size the same as fighter bombers?
After the changes, will all supers be able to carry a full set of 10 fighters, and 10 fighter bombers? OR, will they be able to carry a full set of fighter bombers, and half a flight of fighters (as is the current situation)? Its mentioned in his blog, the drone bay size is getting nerfed down to half to match this.
no, the blog said the fighter bombers are doubling in size, not the bay getting reduced. |
Kailen Thorn
Serenity Prime
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:08:00 -
[115] - Quote
"We are also reducing the maximum number of drones available to Supercarriers from the current 20 to 10."
This part broke my heart, as a player who always loved the idea of owning lots of little drones zooming around you, Carriers and Supers were my natural progression.
I own a Carrier and enjoy all 10 (14 with my DCU's) drones zooming around, and was excited to move onto a wyvern once i had enough funds, to enjoy 20 little drones zooming around, was even panning to get 5 DCU's to say i did have 25.
I personally feel you have destroyed the 'uniqueness' of the supercarrier and its 20/25 drones (even tho improving server load makes sense)
=( |
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
55
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:09:00 -
[116] - Quote
Mortvvs wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:The Thanny and the Nyx Should get the standard bonus of 10% to drone damage and hit points after these changes to keep it uniform.
I haven't seen anything about that bonus getting removed.
currently it is only 5% per level to fighters/fighter bombers |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
349
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:09:00 -
[117] - Quote
Nice work , but still waiting for Some love on the Ewar drones would like to see which ewar drones are used ....
make the skill electronic warfare drone .. useful RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
Mortvvs
Snuff Box
43
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:11:00 -
[118] - Quote
Fredric Wolf wrote:Mortvvs wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:The Thanny and the Nyx Should get the standard bonus of 10% to drone damage and hit points after these changes to keep it uniform.
I haven't seen anything about that bonus getting removed. currently it is only 5% per level to fighters/fighter bombers
Oh right, but 10% would be a tiny bit too OP. FREE FILINGO |
Novah Soul
90
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:13:00 -
[119] - Quote
Tippia wrote: So as long as they keep that same wrong-headed design patter, where four drones are squeezed into a two-dimensional continuum, two of those drones will always be meaningless. There's really no reason to separate the drones in damage output at all. Just make them do the same damage and let resists matter, and then find three other characteristics that can be used as a trade-off for speed, and where each drone race has its own distinct advantage. If they can't find three characteristics, then skip the speed differentiation as well, and just let the damage type be the only differentiator.
This^
IDK why this wouldn't happen. Just give all the drones the same base stats for their class/type and modify the damage output. CCP does this with missiles now anyway. |
Edmark I
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
82
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:13:00 -
[120] - Quote
Kailen Thorn wrote:"We are also reducing the maximum number of drones available to Supercarriers from the current 20 to 10."
This part broke my heart, as a player who always loved the idea of owning lots of little drones zooming around you, Carriers and Supers were my natural progression.
I own a Carrier and enjoy all 10 (14 with my DCU's) drones zooming around, and was excited to move onto a wyvern once i had enough funds, to enjoy 20 little drones zooming around, was even panning to get 5 DCU's to say i did have 25.
I personally feel you have destroyed the 'uniqueness' of the supercarrier and its 20/25 drones (even tho improving server load makes sense)
=(
Except in any instance where supercarriers are being used in their intended role- capital fleet fights, when the fighterbombers come out- the system instantly goes 10% tidi. Given what we've learned from HED-GP and B-R reducing the number of drones in space is absolutely necessary.
Sorry for your ratting carrier and ratting super dreams |
|
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1265
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:16:00 -
[121] - Quote
and i thought my skillplans were finally coming to an end and i could start training alts :O GRRR Goons |
The Warfish
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:16:00 -
[122] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:The Warfish wrote:Apparently it is.
Please tell us when "a mix of the two" is superior to the best DPS (Gall) or the best Tracking/Speed (Minn). Thats the question.
Nobody who plays EVE wants "mostly", they want best-at-role. And since Drones do two things and two things only, kill/chase off tacklers (where all that matters is best speed/tracking) and lay down DPS (where Amarr can never catch up to Gall), having "mostly" is a decision that is effectively self-nerfing.
So.....tell us my friend, what situations you want to self-nerf yourself in by having "mostly" instead of "best". Rather than comparing pure numbers, also consider you're switching damage types. Yes, the Amarr drones are slower than Minmatar, but they'll do a much better job at hitting low EM resist.
Except it won't.
Even if EM damage is the weaker resist, in EVE almost everything PvE and PvP alike that is weak to EM is also weak to Therm. The difference in resist profile is still not enough of a factor to lead a pilot to choose Amarr Drones (and skill up Amarr Spec if they already have Gall spec. which every Droneship Pilot should) over Gallente.
Lets look at Sansha Rats as an example. No one (literally no one) used Amarr Rats against this "EM weak" Rat type. Why? Because Thermal Gall. Drones still do more damage than Amarr against an Amarr-specific damage weak Rat type.
PvP will be even worse, as people will continue to go best-in-class damage or best-in-class speed for Drones. No one is going to say "I'll drone for EM resists in PvP" when ultra-fast Minny Drones will be superior even with resist profiles vs. fast frigs and Gall Drones will still be superior vs. tanky targets even with resist profiles considered.
A poster above is quite right, two stats can't balance four races. Best Damage and Best Speed/Tracking will still be best to use in every scenario. |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
470
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:19:00 -
[123] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:Rather than comparing pure numbers, also consider you're switching damage types. Yes, the Amarr drones are slower than Minmatar, but they'll do a much better job at hitting low EM resist. If you're making a damage type choice, it's most likely because you're going after rats. If you're going after rats, you don't need the speed, and Gallente drones will do more damage (since all EM-weak rats are also Th-weak). If you're going after a fast target, which is the better choice: a drone that has a higher chance of catching the target but which might do slightly less damage, or a drone which might not catch the target, but does more damage on the off chance that it does. PinkKnife wrote:There is no "best-at" role anymore, so pick your flavor and go with it. Yes there is, and they're the exact same roles as now since the design pattern is exactly the same as before. If you expect fast targets, you go Minmatar; if you expect tough targets, you go Gallente. Betting that a target should happen to be slightly slower and EM-weak, or just a tiny bit too fast and kinetic-weak is such a long shot that it's just not worth risking. Smoothing out a differentiation that isn't working because you always pick the drones that are the best at something doesn't suddenly mean you're not going to pick the drones that (still) are the best. It's the same differentiation as we currently have and which is currently not working. It's not going to work any better just because it becomes numerically prettier.
Speak for yourself, I use drones that are going to be the best overall for whatever situations I expect. Amarr or Caldari drones sound perfect for not getting caught in the tracking woes of Hobgoblins and the meager DPS of warriors. |
The Warfish
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:19:00 -
[124] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:The Warfish wrote:PinkKnife wrote:The Warfish wrote:I appreciate the thought CCP, but:
So, I am an RP *** and Aethetics *** who loves Amarr Drones.
Tell me....
...in what circumstances would it be worth it losing speed (vs. Minny Drones) or Damage (vs. Gallente Drones) to utilize the Amarr Drones after the fix?
Cause I'm still not seeing them as all that useful.
Drones have two jobs in EVE and two only: Kill Tackler Frigates (speed/tracking is king, use Minny Drones) and pure DPS (Damage Bonus is king, use Gallente Drones).
Why would I slow my anti-fast-**** drones down? Why would I lower my damage when damage is what counts?
/shrug, outside RP reasons, I don't see many switching to Amarr/Caldari drones tbqh, especially since most drone users and vets probably have Gall and Minn Drone spec to at least 4 if not 5, and Amarr/Caldari Spec not even trained.
A better idea would probably have been to make Gallente and Amarr equal all down the line (big tough slow DPS) and Caldari/Minny Drones equal (fast, accurate).
Then the choice comes down to damge type and purpose, with EM/Therm DPS and Kin/Explo Speed options. For a mix of the two. It is now easier to decide on the spectrum which is more important, speed or DPS. If you want only dps, go Gallente, if you want only speed go Minmatar, if you want mostly speed go Amarr, and if you want mostly DPS go Caldari. Not that hard. Apparently it is. Please tell us when "a mix of the two" is superior to the best DPS (Gall) or the best Tracking/Speed (Minn). Thats the question. Nobody who plays EVE wants "mostly", they want best-at-role. And since Drones do two things and two things only, kill/chase off tacklers (where all that matters is best speed/tracking) and lay down DPS (where Amarr can never catch up to Gall), having "mostly" is a decision that is effectively self-nerfing. So.....tell us my friend, what situations you want to self-nerf yourself in by having "mostly" instead of "best". I didnt mean mix as in 2 amarr 3 gallente, I meant as a mix of dps/speed. Maybe I find Gallentte drones too slow, but still like having more DPS than minmatar drones. That's when I would go with Caldari. Not a hard decision. There is no "best-at" role anymore, so pick your flavor and go with it. Gallente have tracking problems on fast frigates, Minmatar are unideal for slower targets that can be hit by higher damage drones. Use one of the others as a compromise for non perfect scenarios. As I said, not that hard.
The fact you keep ignoring the issue and mumbling "not that hard" shows a clear and unquestionable lack of understanding.
yes, there is still two "best in class" Drones. Gall will outdamge Caldari in every circumstance where speed is not a factor. Minny will out hit (and hence our damage) Amarr in every circumstance where speed is a factor.
Again, and be specific please, detail a circumstance where you, as a pilot, would choose Amarr over Minny and then show us (with the maths) how the Amarr Drones will out-perform Minny in that scenario.
If you can't do that, I guess it IS "that hard", because as I and most have said, best-in-class will still be best in class.
|
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4974
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:20:00 -
[125] - Quote
And you are going to make drone control units a passive module right? . |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5564
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:21:00 -
[126] - Quote
Probably not the best day to release this blog, at least not if you want people to take it seriously. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
598
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:24:00 -
[127] - Quote
Mortvvs wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:Mortvvs wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:The Thanny and the Nyx Should get the standard bonus of 10% to drone damage and hit points after these changes to keep it uniform.
I haven't seen anything about that bonus getting removed. currently it is only 5% per level to fighters/fighter bombers Oh right, but 10% would be a tiny bit too OP. Considering every other super can now out dps and out tank it at the same time it seems only fair, doing damage is literally the only thing the nyx can do that other supers couldnt do better.
Coreli Corporation: Small gang PVP & Drug Production, Apply now! |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4974
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:25:00 -
[128] - Quote
Besides the sexy look, now there is not a single good reason to fly a Nyx over any other super carrier. :( . |
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:25:00 -
[129] - Quote
I like it.
One question:
You write:
Quote:This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill
Will that also mean that those two skills are going to have different ranks? Like LDO rank 1 and MDO rank 2 for example? |
Draconus Lofwyr
UK Corp RAZOR Alliance
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:26:00 -
[130] - Quote
the drones should have a secondary damage effect to bring out a diversity, caldari drones do their primary damage, but have the secondary effect of a possible disruption of weapon systems, (ie, they will have a percentage chance to disrupt the next volley of fire so as to cause a miss on the target. ) Amarr with do primary damage, but also a secondary effect of a small percentage of capacitor nullified) no where near the level of the dedicated ecm type, but enough to be a factor in a battle. but with a stacking penalty so if your targeted by 100 caldari drones, you wont miss more than the effect of 5 of them. this will add color and verity to drone warfare and add a new variable to drone fights. similar effects can be available to the other 2 types to round out the playing field. |
|
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
42
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:27:00 -
[131] - Quote
As a drone user and somebody (insane) who has maxed out all drone skill - Hurray!
Do worry though that the Nyx is getting a back handed nerf in the damage v tank debate. I know I am applying backstory and sense (which iirc you should never do with EvE) but surely the the Gallente's only native weapon (Rails being Caldari) should bring them out on top in terms of damage output for their carrier/supercarrier? (still prefer mothership though) |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1614
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:29:00 -
[132] - Quote
As it has been stated - drones have issues with super fast targets. MWD, try to get into orbit, MWD again. I don't see anything that addresses that here. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2523
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:29:00 -
[133] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Anhenka wrote:Dev Blog was really quite hazy about the some of the important bit of the Sentry Drone alterations.
With the base increase of T1 Sentries, and the 2% increase per level, will a char with say Racial Drone spec IV and all the other drone skills maxed deal equal or less damage with a set of T2 Sentries (Say Gardes) than they did previously with the same skills?[
You spelled the damage changes out quite clearly for everything else, but left the effects on T2 sentries quite hazy. This was mainly because the spelling out the details a bit more long winded for sentries since they're not changing by uniform percentages. I decided to pass along the basics and let the spreadsheet at the end provide the specifics. In practice, damage with T2 Gardes and Bouncers will be going down a bit (but with Bouncers gaining a lot of tracking and Gardes gaining a fair amount of falloff) while damage with T2 Curators and Wardens goes up a bit.
So let me get this straight. You trash the AI a couple years ago, because you hated anyone who used heavies in missions. Then you trashed the Omnidirectional, because we "adapted:" (read as do less effective damage than heavies), and started using Sentries.
But , no, that is not enough. Every single person who kills themselves to get the skills to get T2 sentries just got screwed even further since Garde II's just took another huge hit in damage. Because Garde's were used on 3 of the 4 NPC's.
Man, you just can't help yourself, wrecking the PvE game, can you? My Stratios in low sec Amarr space, or low sec Gallente space just got creamed even more after the Omni wipeout.
BTW , I retired my Proteus mission runner when you wiped out Omni's. Now, I can retire any of the other PvE drone boats I have. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Aerozzz
Afragoi Ltd
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:29:00 -
[134] - Quote
Regarding the Fighters Fighter bomber changes:
1) The Fighter Bombers are getting their damage output nerfed. Two FB currently do 6k damage, 1 FB after the changes will do 1400 (base damage) * 1.5 (drone interfacing V) * 2 (100% supercarrier bonus) = 4200, 70% down from 6k. Are my calculations correct (assuming no DDAs are fit)?
2) If I read correclty, Drone Navigation, Durability, Sharpshooting now affect Fighters and FBs. Does that mean that Fighters / FBs get a buff to their speed, HP (except the one related to the volume size for the FBs) and tracking (for Fighters)?
Thanks! |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4974
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:30:00 -
[135] - Quote
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:the drones should have a secondary damage effect to bring out a diversity, caldari drones do their primary damage, but have the secondary effect of a possible disruption of weapon systems, (ie, they will have a percentage chance to disrupt the next volley of fire so as to cause a miss on the target. ) Amarr with do primary damage, but also a secondary effect of a small percentage of capacitor nullified) no where near the level of the dedicated ecm type, but enough to be a factor in a battle. but with a stacking penalty so if your targeted by 100 caldari drones, you wont miss more than the effect of 5 of them. this will add color and verity to drone warfare and add a new variable to drone fights. similar effects can be available to the other 2 types to round out the playing field. No. . |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20386
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:31:00 -
[136] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:Speak for yourself, I use drones that are going to be the best overall for whatever situations I expect. Amarr or Caldari drones sound perfect for not getting caught in the tracking woes of Hobgoblins and the meager DPS of warriors. But that's just it: for the situations you can expect, EM is still worthless and Kn will be no different than it currently isGǪ and as the stats show, it is pretty much worthless as well.
You go for best in class. GÇ£Kind of ok at this, and meh at the otherGÇ¥ will never be best in class.
The only way to solve that is to increase the number of classes or to remove them altogether and just make it the role of the die if you picked the right type for what you meet. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
291
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:31:00 -
[137] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:boohoo
Must you consistently whine about everything?
|
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1614
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:33:00 -
[138] - Quote
Tippia wrote:PinkKnife wrote:Speak for yourself, I use drones that are going to be the best overall for whatever situations I expect. Amarr or Caldari drones sound perfect for not getting caught in the tracking woes of Hobgoblins and the meager DPS of warriors. But that's just it: for the situations you can expect, EM is still worthless and Kn will be no different than it currently isGǪ and as the stats show, it is pretty much worthless as well. You go for best in class. GǣKind of ok at this, and meh at the otherGǥ will never be best in class. The only way to solve that is to increase the number of classes or to remove them altogether and just make it the role of the die if you picked the right type for what you meet.
I've always been surprised that drones don't have different optimal ranges. |
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
212
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:33:00 -
[139] - Quote
If people don't use Caldari combat drones when they're 2nd best in damage and 2nd best in speed and tracking, why would they start using them when they become 2nd best damage 2nd WORST speed/tracking? |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
251
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:34:00 -
[140] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:boohoo Must you consistently whine about everything? It is a little strange that in every single game adjustment thread, he just happens to be performing the PvE activity that gets hit the most by the changes. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2288
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:34:00 -
[141] - Quote
So looking at the Vexor, now needs Medium hybrid Turrets, Light Drone Operation, Medium Drone Operation, and Heavy Drone Operation to use efficiently.
The most skill intensive T1 cruiser in the game now. -á --á |
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
490
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:35:00 -
[142] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Anhenka wrote:Dev Blog was really quite hazy about the some of the important bit of the Sentry Drone alterations.
With the base increase of T1 Sentries, and the 2% increase per level, will a char with say Racial Drone spec IV and all the other drone skills maxed deal equal or less damage with a set of T2 Sentries (Say Gardes) than they did previously with the same skills?[
You spelled the damage changes out quite clearly for everything else, but left the effects on T2 sentries quite hazy. This was mainly because the spelling out the details a bit more long winded for sentries since they're not changing by uniform percentages. I decided to pass along the basics and let the spreadsheet at the end provide the specifics. In practice, damage with T2 Gardes and Bouncers will be going down a bit (but with Bouncers gaining a lot of tracking and Gardes gaining a fair amount of falloff) while damage with T2 Curators and Wardens goes up a bit. So let me get this straight. You trash the AI a couple years ago, because you hated anyone who used heavies in missions. Then you trashed the Omnidirectional, because we "adapted:" (read as do less effective damage than heavies), and started using Sentries. But , no, that is not enough. Every single person who kills themselves to get the skills to get T2 sentries just got screwed even further since Garde II's just took another huge hit in damage. Because Garde's were used on 3 of the 4 NPC's. Man, you just can't help yourself, wrecking the PvE game, can you? My Stratios in low sec Amarr space, or low sec Gallente space just got creamed even more after the Omni wipeout. BTW , I retired my Proteus mission runner when you wiped out Omni's. Now, I can retire any of the other PvE drone boats I have.
I would reprocess that stuff sooner than later. The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2523
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:35:00 -
[143] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Looking forward to all your feedback. CCP Rise and I have been working hard on these changes and we think they'll be great for the drone ecosystem as a whole. If this is a troll I will pod you! Quote:We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation. This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill. During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to. Be aware of the side effect this is going to have on new players wanting to fly the Algos. To reach its full potential you will need to train both light and medium drones. This previously was done with one skill but now will require two. Same thing goes for the Vexor. In both cases you will need to train for three weapon system to fully use the ship. This is not new player friendly. Are you going to change the bandwidth/bonus on these ships?
Do you seriously think that he EVER considers new players when wrecking a system in game? Really? Just look at his track record. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
689
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:36:00 -
[144] - Quote
since you're making the weapons more realistic to their races .. ... how about doing the same with their HP on armour/shields ??
too many drones are just structure and not much else .. considering structure has no resists it makes the HP a lot weaker than it should be..
also sig radius needs sorting out ... many have the sig of a cruisers despite being infinitely smaller than one Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Degalo
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:36:00 -
[145] - Quote
Aerozzz wrote:Regarding the Fighters Fighter bomber changes:
1) The Fighter Bombers are getting their damage output nerfed. Two FB currently do 6k damage, 1 FB after the changes will do 1400 (base damage) * 1.5 (drone interfacing V) * 2 (100% supercarrier bonus) = 4200, 70% down from 6k. Are my calculations correct (assuming no DDAs are fit)?
Thanks!
They are getting nerfed heavily.
Right now, a single FB does 6000 volley on a non-nyx.
3000 base x 2 for FB 5.
After patch, a single FB will need to do 12000 volley to be equal, but it won't:
1400 (base) x 2 (SC Role) x 2 (FB 5) x 1.5 (DI 5) = 8400
8400/12000 = 70% of current damage.
This is a 30% nerf if you don't cripple your tank - so while the post said they will do the same damage, it a ******* lie. You can only do the same damage by giving up tank.
**** this change. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6793
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:38:00 -
[146] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Do you seriously think that he EVER considers new players when wrecking a system in game? Really? Just look at his track record.
in addition to your habit of always using the currently overpowered pve thing every single time it is also strange that you have been a new player for years Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20387
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:38:00 -
[147] - Quote
Querns wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:boohoo Must you consistently whine about everything? It is a little strange that in every single game adjustment thread, he just happens to be performing the PvE activity that gets hit the most by the changes. It's also strange how every thing he complains about shows that he's doing whatever he's doing in the most inefficient way (cf. the above whine about having to ditch heavies in favour of sentries, even though sentries were always better). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
689
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:39:00 -
[148] - Quote
so if you're buffing base drone damage .. im guessing the other non drone ships will have their bandwidth reduced somewhat?? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2523
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:40:00 -
[149] - Quote
Querns wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:boohoo Must you consistently whine about everything? It is a little strange that in every single game adjustment thread, he just happens to be performing the PvE activity that gets hit the most by the changes.
Isn't it? I try to adapt to whatever PvE system is left over that is the most functional, at which point Fozzie then focuses on it. Because it is part of a never-ending campaign to destroy high sec income, (and now it appears low sec income), that is a logical outcome.
BTW Fozzie, just to let you know, I figure using supercaps in low sec belt ratting is now the most optimal PvE activity outside of null sec, so you can now focus on wrecking supercarriers and titans.
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
470
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:40:00 -
[150] - Quote
The Warfish wrote:
The fact you keep ignoring the issue and mumbling "not that hard" shows a clear and unquestionable lack of understanding.
yes, there is still two "best in class" Drones. Gall will outdamge Caldari in every circumstance where speed is not a factor. Minny will out hit (and hence our damage) Amarr in every circumstance where speed is a factor.
Again, and be specific please, detail a circumstance where you, as a pilot, would choose Amarr over Minny and then show us (with the maths) how the Amarr Drones will out-perform Minny in that scenario.
If you can't do that, I guess it IS "that hard", because as I and most have said, best-in-class will still be best in class.
Where speed is not a factor? You mean 0 percent of engagements using drones? If your target speed is 0 why would you use light drones over medium or heavy's. In that one specific scenario, yes, Gal is the best choice.
Le sigh. Before skills/modules. Tracking MWD Speed DPS A:2.988 4620 1.68 C:2.448 3780 1.8 G:2.178 3360 1.92 M:3.24 5040 1.56
You're problem is that you're viewing only two possible best of scenarios rather than a spectrum. Which is false. Any event in which Minmatar drones are engaging something slower than their tracking ability, is a loss in opportunity DPS that could have been gained with Amarr drones hitting the same target. Likewise, any engagement that has hobgoblins missing the target due to speed, is lost DPS that would have been gained by using Caldari drones. So while on paper Gallente is "best in role" for DPS, if you're fighting anything faster than they can track, they aren't.
So, the logical thing to do is using something in the middle of the road unless you know specifically what, exactly, you're going to be fighting, in which case you can fit to suit your specific application. You don't need math, just plain logic and an understand that you can't pick every engagement. As I said, it isn't nearly as hard as people want to make it out to be.
Fast frigates, pick minmatar, regular pick cal/amarr, heavier, pick gal. Unsure, pick cal/amarr for a mix of speed and dps. |
|
Aerozzz
Afragoi Ltd
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:40:00 -
[151] - Quote
Degalo wrote:Aerozzz wrote:Regarding the Fighters Fighter bomber changes:
1) The Fighter Bombers are getting their damage output nerfed. Two FB currently do 6k damage, 1 FB after the changes will do 1400 (base damage) * 1.5 (drone interfacing V) * 2 (100% supercarrier bonus) = 4200, 70% down from 6k. Are my calculations correct (assuming no DDAs are fit)?
Thanks! They are getting nerfed heavily. Right now, a single FB does 6000 volley on a non-nyx. 3000 base x 2 for FB 5. After patch, a single FB will need to do 12000 volley to be equal, but it won't: 1400 (base) x 2 (SC Role) x 2 (FB 5) x 1.5 (DI 5) = 8400 8400/12000 = 70% of current damage. This is a 30% nerf if you don't cripple your tank - so while the post said they will do the same damage, it a ******* lie. You can only do the same damage by giving up tank. **** this change.
Totally agree with the calculations. I'll refrain from any comment on the actual consequences of the change. :P
Regarding the support drone skills, do Fighters / FB get a buff? (HP, speed, tracking for fighters)? |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2523
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:43:00 -
[152] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Do you seriously think that he EVER considers new players when wrecking a system in game? Really? Just look at his track record.
in addition to your habit of always using the currently overpowered pve thing every single time it is also strange that you have been a new player for years
That is one of many differences between us. Yes, I consider the NPE when looking at changes to it, because I care about the future of the game.
You and your kind only look at new players as cattle to exploit. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20387
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:44:00 -
[153] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:So, the logical thing to do is using something in the middle of the road unless you know specifically what, exactly, you're going to be fighting, in which case you can fit to suit your specific application. You don't need math, just plain logic and an understand that you can't pick every engagement. As I said, it isn't nearly as hard as people want to make it out to be.
Fast frigates, pick minmatar, regular pick cal/amarr, heavier, pick gal. Unsure, pick cal/amarr for a mix of speed and dps. GǪbut the problem is that you never know what, exactly, you're going after so picking a middle-of-the-road option is never the best idea.
If you expect fast ships, you want fast drones. You don't want to gamble that your higher-damage drone will be fast enough, because if you're wrong you lose all your damage. So you pick the highest-speed drone and, at worst, you lose a little damage. The same for the other end of the spectrum: do you gamble a guaranteed loss of damage output against the potential loss of damage if they accidentally have the wrong resists (because at that end of the spectrum, speed won't be a factor no matter what). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
346
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:46:00 -
[154] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
BTW Fozzie, just to let you know, I figure using supercaps in low sec belt ratting is now the most optimal PvE activity outside of null sec, so you can now focus on wrecking supercarriers and titans.
Shush! Don't encourage CFC to do that even more often. They already lost one ratting Nyx in low sec. Can you imagine the tears if they lose more? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
690
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:49:00 -
[155] - Quote
we also need more drones skills
- tracking - orbit speed - sig reduction maybe? - falloff range
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Gank for Profit
78
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:50:00 -
[156] - Quote
so I just ran the numbers on sentries and I am not happy 661dps @72km on an dominix with t2 curators requires a new word to be invented to describe its unbalance it needs a 4 faction mag stab vindi with a t2 ROF rig using caldari navy lead to be able to beat its dps, even that is not enough to beat an dominix using t2 wardens that do 578dps @179 I doubt anything subcap can beat that bar a isthar oh yeah wardens do already 563dps on live o.o (numbers all using 3xt2 DDA no range increasing modules)
so yeah sentries need to brought in line with Large long range guns of all types with their tracking taken into consideration right now sentries track way better then large guns
yes sentry drones have all their limitations and should be somewhat better in general but this is just too much
I too see the changes to normal drones very pessimistic and don't think that caldari and amarr drones will be used more stats that could be used for more flavor are orbit range in conjunction to optimal range allowing caldari drones to orbit out of range of their respective type of smart bomb (small drones orbit @ 4km etc)
PS: and I thought I could take the buff to curators as compensation for having to probably switch from the gila to the ishtar as my plex boat, sigh Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
|
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
110
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:51:00 -
[157] - Quote
I hope Team Five-0 puts the same amount of effort in when fixing and rebalancing missiles.
Some good changes here, some that others won't be pleased about.
I think it's been said before, but there was no changes/rebalances for EWAR drones in this update. Is this something that is being held off on, until EWAR is fixed/rebalanced?
I think a lot of us are still waiting on updates and improvements to the Drone UI, Drone AI, and assist mechanics, especially considering the recent cap on drone assist to 50. Referring back to a previous post I made:
Ransu Asanari wrote:When you assist drones to another player currently, there's no way to tell who has drones assisted to you, and how many, other than that the drones cluster around that pilot's ship. It wasn't as important, since there was no limit. However now, this raises some concerns now that we have to micromanage the assists to fit the limit, and need some tools and UI tweaks to be able to do that.
How will a "drone bunny" know who has drones assisted to them, and how many?
a. Will there be an indication in the fleet window, such as a drone icon, that will show members who have drones assisted to them? This would be helpful for quick reference, if the intention in fleet is to only have drones assisted to one person per squad.
b. Will there be an expanded group in the Drone UI for the "drone bunny" to show a summary of the number of currently Assisted Drones so they will easily know once they've reached their limit of 50?
c. Will the "drone bunny" have the ability to force unassist of drones from a player who assigned them incorrectly, or will lazy/incompetent fleet members DDOS the assist cap, requiring further micromanagement?
How will the drone owner know what is going on with their assisted drones?
a. If a fleet member attempts to assist their drones to a "drone bunny" who has already reached the 50 drone cap, will they get an error message?
b. Can the successful assist be verified by having the Drone UI show "Assisted to X" as the current Drone status, as well as showing if it is Idle, Returning, Engaging, etc? If only some of the drones are assigned, will the player be able to tell which are assigned and which aren't?
At least the confirmation of Drone Assist not working in lowsec has been confirmed as "no plans to fix", despite being brought up multiple times. Maybe we can get an answer on the rest of these? The Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2006" |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
344
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:51:00 -
[158] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Looking forward to all your feedback. CCP Rise and I have been working hard on these changes and we think they'll be great for the drone ecosystem as a whole. If this is a troll I will pod you! Quote:We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation. This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill. During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to. Be aware of the side effect this is going to have on new players wanting to fly the Algos. To reach its full potential you will need to train both light and medium drones. This previously was done with one skill but now will require two. Same thing goes for the Vexor. In both cases you will need to train for three weapon system to fully use the ship. This is not new player friendly. Are you going to change the bandwidth/bonus on these ships? Do you seriously think that he EVER considers new players when wrecking a system in game? Really? Just look at his track record.
"The result is that drones have earned a reputation as a weapon system that is not suitable for new players."
I think right there is thought of new players. He just needs to think of the Gallente new players now ;-p |
Denuo Secus
243
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:52:00 -
[159] - Quote
Very cool changes \o/
A few detail questions:
(1) are any changes to the base drone mechanic included? Such as the issue with overshooting of fast drones (MWD->stop->shoot->MWD)? (2) any changes to the drone UI? (3) about capitals: will the Thanatos keep its fighter bonus after carrier rebalance and is there any chance it gets an overall drone bonus so that combat drones and sentries are included?
Thanks! |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1782
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:53:00 -
[160] - Quote
My thanny thanks you fozzie. Its no longer the ugly step brother of carriers. Now if only you fixed the nid I would be super happy There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
|
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
284
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:53:00 -
[161] - Quote
Since drones are considered a main weapon system, Do we have anything for making Mediums and Heavies useful in PVE? Making them slightly faster is fine, but they still get blapped off the field in a server tick. While the changes may make them more useful in PVP situations, heavies are still not worth their bandwith on anything but very few niche ships. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
690
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:54:00 -
[162] - Quote
also activation proximity needs looking at .. if an warrior has too get to within 1km before he can shoot .. but actually has 4km range then how does that make sense???
also the ranges on the scouts - heavies should reflect their races weapon types
warrior ...........750 optimal 3km falloff hobgoblin...........1250 optimal 1.5km falloff Hornet...............1750 optimal 2.25km falloff Acolyte..................2750 optimal 1km falloff Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1782
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:55:00 -
[163] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:we also need more drones skills
- tracking - orbit speed - sig reduction maybe? - falloff range
Legacy code magic 8 ball says........
No. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:57:00 -
[164] - Quote
"CCP Fozzie" wrote: We are swapping the position of the Bouncer and Curator sentries in the damage ranking, and adding tracking to the Bouncers to compensate
I LOVE YOU, CCP FOZZIE!
I've been silently screaming about this [in the back of my head] for SO many months now--and I didn't even have to write a(n) F&I post on the forums [and get subsequently pooped-on by drone-haters and bouncer-addicts] to finally see this slated for a patch.
"CCP Fozzie" wrote: We will be keeping the 20% bonuses to hitpoints, tracking, optimal, and falloff that Tech Two enjoys over Tech One; but instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries.
Baby, why must you do this?
By effecting this change, there is *LESS* motivation to train from tech1 to tech2 sentries when aiming for DPS--sure, you'll now get that 10% bonus from drone specializations, but the T2 sentry bonuses just got halfway-shelled into oblivion.
Why must sentry fans look at their heavy-drone cousins and weep [internally] as they now lag behind in DPS, even more-so than they did before (as in, now)?
Current max-skilled Dominix with Ogre 2's: 845 DPS Current max-skilled Dominix with Garde 2's: 800 DPS (currently -5.3% relative to Ogre 2's)
Under the new drone damage scheme for heavies and sentries, tech2 sentry pilots will now fall 16.67% under their heavy cousins' DPS values.
This is silly.
Please consider giving that tech2 damage bonus back--there's really no significant rationale to cull it.
And if you MUST cull it, consider lessening the blow: perhaps a 13.61% tech2 sentry damage bonus (down from 20%), rather than the currently slated plan of 0% bonus? That would guarantee the same percentage difference in DPS between current sentries and heavies.
(1.1361/1.2 = 0.94675 = 1 - 0.05325)
"CCP Fozzie" wrote: removing falloff from the Curator sentries
Was wondering how much falloff would be removed from the laser sentries, and then I saw this in the dev blog's spreadsheet:
Garde2 optimal: 24 (unchanged) Garde2 falloff: 18 (+50% -- wow!)
Curator2 optimal: 42 (unchanged) Curator2 falloff: 12 (-50%)
So...the blaster sentry gets 50% more falloff than the laser sentry? (...really?)
The Garde line of sentry drones is well-understood to possess the highest DPS, and therefore exchange that DPS for the lowest optimal range and falloff. This change does not seem to jive with that. In parallel, we do not see blasters out-ranging lasers' optimal or falloff when it comes to guns, so why should the contrary be witnessed with sentry drones? The answer: it shouldn't.
Please revert this change.
The current falloff parameters for the Garde and Curator sentry drone lines (10/20 for Garde1/Curator1, 12/24 for Garde2/Curator2) are perfectly fine.
All other things considered:
I absolutely love this dev blog post! It's high time that drones get their love and attention, and I'm very happy to see that being done. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20388
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:57:00 -
[165] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Harvey James wrote:we also need more drones skills
- tracking - orbit speed - sig reduction maybe? - falloff range Legacy code magic 8 ball says........ No. Since there are already modules that provide (most of) those bonuses, there should be something to hook into at least. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
586
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:57:00 -
[166] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:So looking at the Vexor, now needs Medium hybrid Turrets, Light Drone Operation, Medium Drone Operation, and Heavy Drone Operation to use efficiently.
The most skill intensive T1 cruiser in the game now.
and the heavy drones will still be trash, because they take up too much bay and are destroyed too easily and have no tracking and go too slow. wtb 15% per level bonus for 50 bandwidth. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1783
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 19:58:00 -
[167] - Quote
Ccp why you hate medium drones?
Both medium and heavy have the same sig resolution. 125m There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
110
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to.
So question on this.
Combat Drone Operation is currently a 2x Int/Mem skill. When this splits to Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation, will these both become 1x Int/Mem skills with half the total skillpoint requirements, or will they remain at 2x skills?
If the first, there's no real different in SP. If the second, we run into the same situation we did with Retribution (I believe) where Destroyers V and Battlecruisers V became racial skills, and training them before the patch allowed players to get "free SP".
Can we please confirm this, as it has a significant impact on training plans. The Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2006" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20388
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:00:00 -
[169] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Ccp why you hate medium drones?
Both medium and heavy have the same sig resolution. 125m That's not so much hating mediums as giving silly preferential treatment to heavies. 125m is exactly what you'd expect from a medium-sized weapon. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
242
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:01:00 -
[170] - Quote
Normal Drones:
I don't think it is a good idea to split combat drone operation into 2 new skills, since depending on the ship and race you can use light or medium drones on the hulls and it would only add more training time and confusion to new players for no good reason.
The in the middle drones(caldari/amarr) should receive something to compensate to make them more useful(since the question is always max dps or max speed/tracking vs frigs). A lot more shield/armor HP and better tracking than even minmatar drones have would make them more attractive in situations where you want to clear firgs fast and expect your drones to get shoot, like in a solo/small gang pvp brawling fight or where people try to clear the field with smart bombs. Another option would be reducing her volume to 4, 7,5 and 20 m-¦ allowing you more dps in hulls with 20 or 45m-¦ drone band wide and providing more options for spare drones, what could be a good argument in her favour in situations where you expect to lose some. The faction drones should have a bit more speed than the T2 ones(5-10%) to make them more attractive overall even if you already can use T2 drones(given that you still lose 8-10% damage).
Integrated drones should have a lot more speed and HP over the T2 equivalent(if the only reason to use them is that you lack the skills for T2, they are pointless) with the current damage. Augmented ones should deal at least 10% more damage than the T2 ones with spec on 5, brining them in line with faction ammo and other stuff, providing a real advantage. Also drop rates of the BPCs should be improved a lot to make them more a expensive extra option instead of a rarity they are today.
Heavy Drones need work, while the changes to speed are a good start, they need more HP(at the very least as much as sentrys got, probably more), better tracking and a bit more dps to be a reasonable alternative over Sentry drones in PVP(at least small scale) and PVE again. Currently they are to easy to remove from the field by smart bombs or weapon fire(even if it is just NPCs) compared to sentry's that are nearly all the time in scoop and deploy range.They should provide 15-20% more dps than sentry's because of her rather limited uses(not good enough vs smaller ships, slow, easy targets, clear able by smart bombs very easy) and the massive opportunity cost that you have to chose between heavy drones or sentry's on all non drone focused hulls.
Sentry Drones:
The changes to the range of faction sentry drones is very good, since this was more often then not the real deal breaker compared to T2, instead of the DPS.
Sentry drones still lacking Integrated and Augmented variants, more range on Integrated ones and a bit more dps of Augmented ones would be cool features.
Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
|
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Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2156
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:01:00 -
[171] - Quote
If I trained dog poo to level V, CCP would nerf it.
Oh well, onwards ever onwards. This is not a signature. |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
470
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:01:00 -
[172] - Quote
Tippia wrote:PinkKnife wrote:So, the logical thing to do is using something in the middle of the road unless you know specifically what, exactly, you're going to be fighting, in which case you can fit to suit your specific application. You don't need math, just plain logic and an understand that you can't pick every engagement. As I said, it isn't nearly as hard as people want to make it out to be.
Fast frigates, pick minmatar, regular pick cal/amarr, heavier, pick gal. Unsure, pick cal/amarr for a mix of speed and dps. GǪbut the problem is that you never know what, exactly, you're going after so picking a middle-of-the-road option is never the best idea. If you expect fast ships, you want fast drones. You don't want to gamble that your higher-damage drone will be fast enough, because if you're wrong you lose all your damage. So you pick the highest-speed drone and, at worst, you lose a little damage. The same for the other end of the spectrum: do you gamble a guaranteed loss of damage output against the potential loss of damage if they accidentally have the wrong resists (because at that end of the spectrum, speed won't be a factor no matter what). If you're unsure, you pick the fast option because you know you will be prepared no matter what.
You might, but the speed difference between minmatar and amarr is relatively small now.
4620 vs 5040. Also considering Amarr have a better multiplier 1.68 vs 1.56.
I imagine a lot of people will still go Minmatar for the , **** it I wanna shoot anything mindset, but I think a lot of people will now go with a more hybrid approach (no pun intended) of using Caldari or Amarr drones for more damage and better speed compared to Gallente drones.
|
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1783
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:02:00 -
[173] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Since drones are considered a main weapon system, Do we have anything for making Mediums and Heavies useful in PVE? Making them slightly faster is fine, but they still get blapped off the field in a server tick. While the changes may make them more useful in PVP situations, heavies are still not worth their bandwith on anything but very few niche ships.
Things I would like to see.
Nanite paste heals drones in drone bay.
Mjd for heavy drones built in
Range 50km... pretty much if target is over 50km they mjd to target. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Bryperium
RAZOR Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:03:00 -
[174] - Quote
Like these changes :)
Don't think the Nerf to fighter bomber base DPS is really necessary though.
I'd love to see DCU's become a passive mod as well, depending on whether or not that can actually be coded. - |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6793
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:04:00 -
[175] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
That is one of many differences between us. Yes, I consider the NPE when looking at changes to it, because I care about the future of the game.
You and your kind only look at new players as cattle to exploit.
our alliance is built on those "cattle" so even if we did just look at new players as cattle to exploit, boy do we take better care of them than you
mad cow dinsdale is at it again Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
586
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:06:00 -
[176] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:As it has been stated - drones have issues with super fast targets. MWD, try to get into orbit, MWD again. I don't see anything that addresses that here.
maybe they're going to announce a massive nerf to links and snakes tomorrow |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20388
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:07:00 -
[177] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:You might, but the speed difference between minmatar and amarr is relatively small now.
4620 vs 5040. Also considering Amarr have a better multiplier 1.68 vs 1.56. GǪand against anything travelling at 4700m/s (which a lot of ships you'd want to sic fast drones at do), that better multiplier might as well be 0.0 for all the benefit it brings.
Again, the kind of differentiation they're doing is what's already in the game. It has already failed. It has failed because it's an inherently flawed design pattern that assumes that mediocrity will somehow have value. People can already go for a hybrid approach. They don't because it's not a good approach. The devs need three more classes so each drone race can be best in class (and be equal in damage), or they need to have no classes at all.
Hell, they could even keep it at two and then invent two different ways of being best in class for those two so that, once again, all four races are best in class. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2288
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:08:00 -
[178] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:So looking at the Vexor, now needs Medium hybrid Turrets, Light Drone Operation, Medium Drone Operation, and Heavy Drone Operation to use efficiently.
The most skill intensive T1 cruiser in the game now. and the heavy drones will still be trash, because they take up too much bay and are destroyed too easily and have no tracking and go too slow. wtb 15% per level bonus for 50 bandwidth. I too would rather medium drones on cruisers, by extension I would like the Algos to be a light drone ship. -á --á |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2288
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:10:00 -
[179] - Quote
Tippia wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Ccp why you hate medium drones?
Both medium and heavy have the same sig resolution. 125m That's not so much hating mediums as giving silly preferential treatment to heavies. 125m is exactly what you'd expect from a medium-sized weapon. Heavies really should be bumped to the proper 400m. To do that though they would have to make medium drones viable on cruisers and Battlecruisers. -á --á |
The Cue
Applied Agoraphobia
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:11:00 -
[180] - Quote
Drones were out running their own tracking before this change, now they're just going to get worse.
Just remove tracking from non-sentry drones, and use the same missile formula used for Fighter Bombers. Honestly, the only drones that should have tracking are Sentries. Lights, Mediums, Heavies, and Fighters should all be moved to the same missile formula that the Fighter Bombers were moved to. |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
515
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:11:00 -
[181] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:As someone that actually has Amarr Drone Specialization V, I'm happy that I can finally get some use out of that skill! woah, it must be like april first or something No joke I seriously have that skill (and Caldari Drone Spec V)
those are on my to do list somewhere in the distant distant future, everything at lv5 someday soonGäó You can trust me, I have a monocole |
The Cue
Applied Agoraphobia
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:12:00 -
[182] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Tippia wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Ccp why you hate medium drones?
Both medium and heavy have the same sig resolution. 125m That's not so much hating mediums as giving silly preferential treatment to heavies. 125m is exactly what you'd expect from a medium-sized weapon. Heavies really should be bumped to the proper 400m. To do that though they would have to make medium drones viable.
Fixed that for you. |
Bryperium
RAZOR Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:14:00 -
[183] - Quote
Will the carrier/SC pilot's skills/modules effect delegated fighters? - |
Joker Dronemaster
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:15:00 -
[184] - Quote
If this is an April fools joke I must warn you Fozzie.
I will be seeing you again this year at Vegas. :)
On a more serious note will there be any changes to make it so drones will match speed with their current target? As it stands a MWD battleship can outrun Valkyries.
The mechanics behind this are as follows
1. Tell Drones to engage fleeing BS
2. Drones activates MWD and burns into range.
3. Drones get into range and deactivate mwd
4. Battleship burns outside of drone optimal and takes 99.9996789% less damage.
5. Jump back to step 2. (and add a 30% chance to end cycle here)
This KILLS applied DPS against even large slow targets.
Can haz fix please? |
Joker Dronemaster
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:17:00 -
[185] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:As someone that actually has Amarr Drone Specialization V, I'm happy that I can finally get some use out of that skill! woah, it must be like april first or something No joke I seriously have that skill (and Caldari Drone Spec V)
So I'm not the only one in the game! |
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:18:00 -
[186] - Quote
Why not simply get rid of sentry drones as they are now then split racial drones into 2 short ranged variants (higher dps or speed) and 2 longer range variants (longer range at the cost of dps and speed) for each drone size ? Are ponies the new rule 34 ? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
586
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:18:00 -
[187] - Quote
Joker Dronemaster wrote:If this is an April fools joke I must warn you Fozzie.
I will be seeing you again this year at Vegas. :)
On a more serious note will there be any changes to make it so drones will match speed with their current target? As it stands a MWD battleship can outrun Valkyries.
The mechanics behind this are as follows
1. Tell Drones to engage fleeing BS
2. Drones activates MWD and burns into range.
3. Drones get into range and deactivate mwd
4. Battleship burns outside of drone optimal and takes 99.9996789% less damage.
5. Jump back to step 2. (and add a 30% chance to end cycle here)
This KILLS applied DPS against even large slow targets.
Can haz fix please?
the lazy/easy fix is to just increase the gun range on combat drones |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
253
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:19:00 -
[188] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: You and your kind only look at new players as cattle to exploit.
Wrong.
From our founding, we have focused ourselves, laser-like, on the New Player Experience. We are its largest champions. (There's also a lot of us as well.) Your assumption is that NPE can only exist in highsec. This is wrong. We have spent the better part of a decade making nullsec accessible to our new players.
A personal example: I, myself, having only played eve for a little under four years, spent absolutely no time in highsec when I first started, podding myself to the recently-acquired VFK-IV station under 48 hours of my start date. Check my employment history if you don't believe me. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
337
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:21:00 -
[189] - Quote
Echoing others: please make Drone Control Units a passive module |
Chirjo Durruti
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:22:00 -
[190] - Quote
Well, what can I say. As a Gallente heavily invested in drone skills, i'm very pleased with these changes. HOWTO: No More Tears (solo) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdA4ciUrH-k If you can get me a better crew than THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrtQ9AdoM0 convo me. |
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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
1145
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:25:00 -
[191] - Quote
I too think that Drones needed balancing more than a COMPLETE OVERHAUL.
Stuff some glue in the cracks and call it an "Expansion".
I hope this is an April fool's joke, but sadly CCP's track record seems to say otherwise.....
CCP: "We know what's best for the game, so you can't have any options....." |
Baracuda
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
103
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:25:00 -
[192] - Quote
"This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy [...]"
"Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates [...]"
Do you see a conflict here?!
Keep nerfing supers. Thx. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20389
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:25:00 -
[193] - Quote
Oh, actual question: will the GÇ£could use it before, can use it afterGÇ¥ rule for skill replacements apply to these changes? You mention that T2 sentries, for instance, will require the racial spec skills, which they currently don't. Will those be handed out in the cases where people haven't trained the spec skills but can currently use those T2 drones? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
458
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:26:00 -
[194] - Quote
so, if this isnt an april fools dev blog...
CCP Fozzie wrote: We are also reducing the maximum number of drones available to Supercarriers from the current 20 to 10. To compensate, all Supercarriers will receive a 100% damage bonus to Fighter and Fighter Bomber damage, and the hitpoints and volume of Fighter Bombers will be doubled.
if you're doubling the EHP and damage of FB's surely that equates to a general jump in size to FB's. Much like the gap between battlecruisers and battleships, the doubling of DPS and EHP equates to a jump in hull size. and with that you have an increase in the 'SIG RADIUS'.
so with the doubling of EHP and Damage for FB's it makes logical sense to increase its base sig radius from 125m to 250m, in line with the changes. |
Daedra Blue
Atomic Biohazard
60
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:29:00 -
[195] - Quote
EvE mass/speed ratios normally dictate that the heavier the object the slower it moves naturally.
Hence why i find it strange that the tiny Ogre moves at half the speed of the huge cruiser sized Fighters.... |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2524
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:30:00 -
[196] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:"CCP Fozzie" wrote: We are swapping the position of the Bouncer and Curator sentries in the damage ranking, and adding tracking to the Bouncers to compensate
I LOVE YOU, CCP FOZZIE! I've been silently screaming about this [in the back of my head] for SO many months now--and I didn't even have to write a(n) F&I post on the forums [and get subsequently pooped-on by drone-haters and bouncer-addicts] to finally see this slated for a patch. "CCP Fozzie" wrote: We will be keeping the 20% bonuses to hitpoints, tracking, optimal, and falloff that Tech Two enjoys over Tech One; but instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries.
Baby, why must you do this? By effecting this change, there is *LESS* motivation to train from tech1 to tech2 sentries when aiming for DPS--sure, you'll now get that 10% bonus from drone specializations, but the T2 sentry bonuses just got halfway-shelled into oblivion. Why must sentry fans look at their heavy-drone cousins and weep [internally] as they now lag behind in DPS, even more-so than they did before (as in, now)? Current max-skilled Dominix with Ogre 2's: 845 DPS Current max-skilled Dominix with Garde 2's: 800 DPS ( currently -5.3% relative to Ogre 2's) Under the new drone damage scheme for heavies and sentries, tech2 sentry pilots will now fall 16.67% under their heavy cousins' DPS values. This is silly. Please consider giving that tech2 damage bonus back--there's really no significant rationale to cull it. And if you MUST cull it, consider lessening the blow: perhaps a 13.61% tech2 sentry damage bonus (down from 20%), rather than the currently slated plan of 0% bonus? That would guarantee the same percentage difference in DPS between current sentries and heavies. (1.1361 / 1.2 = 0.94675 = 1 - 0.05325) "CCP Fozzie" wrote: removing falloff from the Curator sentries
Was wondering how much falloff would be removed from the laser sentries, and then I saw this in the dev blog's spreadsheet: Garde2 optimal: 24 (unchanged) Garde2 falloff: 18 (+50% -- wow!) Curator2 optimal: 42 (unchanged) Curator2 falloff: 12 (-50%) So...the blaster sentry gets 50% more falloff than the laser sentry? (...really?) The Garde line of sentry drones is well-understood to possess the highest DPS, and therefore exchange that DPS for the lowest optimal range and falloff. This change does not seem to jive with that. In parallel, we do not see blasters out-ranging lasers' optimal or falloff when it comes to guns, so why should the contrary be witnessed with sentry drones? The answer: it shouldn't. Please revert this change. The current falloff parameters for the Garde and Curator sentry drone lines (10/20 for Garde1/Curator1, 12/24 for Garde2/Curator2) are perfectly fine. All other things considered: I absolutely love this dev blog post! It's high time that drones get their love and attention, and I'm very happy to see that being done.
The wrecking of T2 sentry damage was another direct attack on PVE income, primarily high income, though I have used T2 Gardes in low sec many a time. So don't expect this guy to back out the damage nerf.
The buffs to heavies and mediums is a PvP thing, because thanks to his wrecking the NPC AI 2 years ago (remember how that was supposed to be the 1st of several steps), do nothing in the PvE environment. Lights are still instapopped, and still no one will sen out their heavies any distance at all.
In fact, good luck EVER finding a nerf he rolled back. Rise has rolled some back, but not this guy. He revels in wrecking income for anyone who does not have systems to rent out.
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
The Cue
Applied Agoraphobia
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:32:00 -
[197] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:if you're doubling the EHP and damage of FB's surely that equates to a general jump in size to FB's. Much like the gap between battlecruisers and battleships, the doubling of DPS and EHP equates to a jump in hull size. and with that you have an increase in the 'SIG RADIUS'.
so with the doubling of EHP and Damage for FB's it makes logical sense to increase its base sig radius from 125m to 250m, in line with the changes.
Except this isn't a change of lore, like a battlecruiser to battleship, it's a change for lag. Similar to the change that introduced the Drone Interfacing skill. The point is to just combine two FBs into one, making for less lag. This is a least-difference change for lag's sake, not balance. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20390
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:37:00 -
[198] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:The wrecking of T2 sentry damage was another direct attack on PVE income, primarily high income, though I have used T2 Gardes in low sec many a time. So don't expect this guy to back out the damage nerf. Why would they? And what's so special about PvE that it should not receive balance adjustments every now and then? Also, you realise that it's a continuation of an GÇ£attackGÇ¥ on PvP where sentries have been dominant for a very long while now, right? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Baracuda
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
103
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:48:00 -
[199] - Quote
"The result is that drones have earned a reputation as a weapon system that is not suitable for new players."
Oh, and why fukking older more skilled players again, by nerfing their Skillpoint-Advantage? |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
440
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:48:00 -
[200] - Quote
So many awesome things! Keep up the good work CCP. |
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2525
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:55:00 -
[201] - Quote
Querns wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: You and your kind only look at new players as cattle to exploit.
Wrong. From our founding, we have focused ourselves, laser-like, on the New Player Experience. We are its largest champions. (There's also a lot of us as well.) Your assumption is that NPE can only exist in highsec. This is wrong. We have spent the better part of a decade making nullsec accessible to our new players. A personal example: I, myself, having only played eve for a little under four years, spent absolutely no time in highsec when I first started, podding myself to the recently-acquired VFK-IV station under 48 hours of my start date. Check my employment history if you don't believe me.
Yeah, whatever. I always believe everything a goon tells me. That has worked so well, for so many. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
344
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:56:00 -
[202] - Quote
Sounded to me like they were going to buff T1 sentry damage to T2 levels, not sure where people are complaining about a damage nerf... |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2062
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:56:00 -
[203] - Quote
Changes look great. One thing that perhaps wasn't mentioned but being looked at or maybe could be looked at is the issue with light drones rubber banding on inties and other super fast ships? Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
254
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 20:57:00 -
[204] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Querns wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: You and your kind only look at new players as cattle to exploit.
Wrong. From our founding, we have focused ourselves, laser-like, on the New Player Experience. We are its largest champions. (There's also a lot of us as well.) Your assumption is that NPE can only exist in highsec. This is wrong. We have spent the better part of a decade making nullsec accessible to our new players. A personal example: I, myself, having only played eve for a little under four years, spent absolutely no time in highsec when I first started, podding myself to the recently-acquired VFK-IV station under 48 hours of my start date. Check my employment history if you don't believe me. Yeah, whatever. I always believe everything a goon tells me. That has worked so well, for so many. What other organization in eve puts out something like our newbie guide?
e: LINK WAS BROKEN AUGH sec lemme find a working one
ee: :sigh: I can't find a link quickly. Going to have to request it from the guy who made it. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
690
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:01:00 -
[205] - Quote
i like the drone avionics and adv avionics idea ... but the E-war skill should be added as a separate skill then....
add T2 e-war drones so training it to lv5 has a purpose .. then rebalance e-war drones too they need a lot of help Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Joker Dronemaster
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
28
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:02:00 -
[206] - Quote
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:While you're at it, please make the Drone Control Unit a passive module.
I spoke with CCP Arrow about this exact change at last years EVE Vegas.
Any blues can feel free to clarify in case i am not remembering this correctly, because as I recall; most of that weekend was one big drunken blur.
Apparently there is an issue with how this mod checks its self against your Advanced Drone Interfacing skill that requires it to be "Activated" for it to take effect and it would require a a relatively large amount of work to change.
But like I said......... I was wasted all weekend
And I do REALLY wish they would just go ahead and do it. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20392
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:02:00 -
[207] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Sounded to me like they were going to buff T1 sentry damage to T2 levels, not sure where people are complaining about a damage nerf... It's like this:
Before: Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù2 (drone interfacing) +ù1.25 (sentry interfacing) = 200 damage. Garde II GÇö 50 damage +ù1.92 modifier +ù2 (drone interfacing) +ù1.25 (sentry interfacing) = 240 damage.
After: Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù 1.5 (drone interfacing) +ù1.25 (sentry interfacing) = 204 damage. Garde II GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (drone interfacing) +ù1.25 (sentry interfacing) +ù1.1 (gal.drone spec) = 224.4 damage.
T1 becomes 2% better at maxed skills; T2 becomes 6.5% worse at max skills (and max skills requires more SP). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2525
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:02:00 -
[208] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Sounded to me like they were going to buff T1 sentry damage to T2 levels, not sure where people are complaining about a damage nerf...
Umm...removal of a 20% improvement of T2's over T1's is NOT a buff of T1's. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20392
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:05:00 -
[209] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Chris Winter wrote:Sounded to me like they were going to buff T1 sentry damage to T2 levels, not sure where people are complaining about a damage nerf... Umm...removal of a 20% improvement of T2's over T1's is NOT a buff of T1's. GǪbut the buff to T1s is a buff to T1s. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Dani Maulerant
Valkyrie Professional Resources R.E.S.P.A.W.N.
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:05:00 -
[210] - Quote
I didn't see any mention if the skill training multipliers would be affected, like Drone Interfacing. Or has that already been brought up in the past 11 pages but missed? |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6795
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:06:00 -
[211] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Yeah, whatever. I always believe everything a goon tells me. That has worked so well, for so many.
hilariously there are so many of you "whatever a goon says is a lie" idiots that the finest form of eve-o trolling is simply posting the truth with a goonswarm character and watch as nutcases rush to claim up is down and black is white because a goon said those were not true Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Craven More
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:06:00 -
[212] - Quote
]Quote:For quality levels, Tech Two sentry drones are currently massive upgrades over their Tech One equivalents since range, tracking and damage are all such important attributes for sentries. We will be keeping the 20% bonuses to hitpoints, tracking, optimal, and falloff that Tech Two enjoys over Tech One; but instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries .
So T2 Sentries damage is being nerfed by 10% & that's assuming the player has the relevant racial skill trained to 5, if not its nerfed by even more.
Quote:To provide consistency between all the drone systems in EVE Online, and to provide more options to capital and supercapital pilots in fitting and training, we are expanding all universal drone bonuses from skills and modules to Fighters and Fighter Bombers. This means that the drone skills, including Drone Interfacing, and modules such as Drone Damage Amplifiers will all apply their bonuses to Fighters and Fighter Bombers.
To compensate for these changes, the base damage of Fighters and Fighter Bombers is being reduced. Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions.
Fighters have already become useless, to carrier pilots, who will use T2 sentries instead. Not seeing anything here that is going to change this situation for carrier pilots.
Superscarriers should be fine, with the exception of;
Quote:We are also reducing the maximum number of drones available to Supercarriers from the current 20 to 10.
Will the rule be; You can either have 10 fighters or 10 fighterbombers, but not a mix and match combination?
|
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1783
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:07:00 -
[213] - Quote
i wish you could choose not to orbit but made approach and set distance into one move...
one thing i noticed is when the drones are approaching tracking is minimal and damaged application is great...
though once orbit starts the damage sucks...
Please let me setup straffing runs for drones...
thanks There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
458
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:09:00 -
[214] - Quote
The Cue wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:if you're doubling the EHP and damage of FB's surely that equates to a general jump in size to FB's. Much like the gap between battlecruisers and battleships, the doubling of DPS and EHP equates to a jump in hull size. and with that you have an increase in the 'SIG RADIUS'.
so with the doubling of EHP and Damage for FB's it makes logical sense to increase its base sig radius from 125m to 250m, in line with the changes. Except this isn't a change of lore, like a battlecruiser to battleship, it's a change for lag. Similar to the change that introduced the Drone Interfacing skill. The point is to just combine two FBs into one, making for less lag. This is a least-difference change for lag's sake, not balance.
yet in many cases changes to only particular assets in the game for lag purposes with shortsighted discrepancies in their application and general roundingness of the design concept has tended to bring about situations that become known as being overpowered. one such example is the change to high alpha DD from area effect weapons and how short sightedness failed to realise the application of that to subcaps (only to be corrected a fair while afterwards)
making a whimsical few set of changes to correct a singular nerf/buff a very widely used weapon system (and yes it is widely used) without full attention to the ramifications of that narrow mindedness created pain points and situations of imbalance itself.
just saying "ohh the changes are for less lag" without proper attention to the secondary and tertiary ramifications is utterly stupid, especially in an ultra hardcore sandbox. |
Random McNally
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
57729
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:14:00 -
[215] - Quote
Performing a performance pass on the combat drones really is low hanging fruit.
How about those poor, poor EWAR drones?
Any sort of timeline as to when those little darlin's (at least the ones that don't have 'EC' in front of them) will be useful? Co-Host of the High Drag Podcast. http://highdrag.wordpress.com/ Check out the space music at http://minddivided.com In Game Channel HighDragChat |
iskflakes
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:15:00 -
[216] - Quote
The nerf to supercarrier DPS is a bit excessive. They should be the same as before with one DDA, rather than two.
The other changes are all great. - |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:17:00 -
[217] - Quote
Some god stuff here, heavy drones needed the speed buff, but many unbalanced things about drones still remain:
- medium & heavy drone signatures are way too big. These get instapopped in both PVP and PVE.
- drone ships need bonuses applied to EWAR drone properties, not just combat drone dps and HP. This because drone ships have one less slot as "they have versatile drone bays". However, taking advantage of this versatility strips them from damage while giving only equal drone utility to any other ship.
- all other EWAR drones except ECMs are still useless
- fighter base tracking is too low
- no drone implants or boosters, poor selection of rigs
- sentry drone scoop range is too small, should be 5km
- drone UI?
I'm also afraid that the new navy mods buff FW income even more. Training for T2 sentries isn't going to be very interesting anymore, the benefits are just too low.
Carriers probably shouldn't be able to use sentries at all, but this is a can of worms. |
Capqu
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
416
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:24:00 -
[218] - Quote
all of you saying this is a dps nerf to supers need to wake up and realise what a 100% role bonus means when modules like drone control units exist
pretty easy to get a nyx doing 20k dps post change, its just more vulnerable in that it doesnt have as many neuts/smarties/tank
more choice in fitting is always good http://pizza.eve-kill.net |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
690
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:27:00 -
[219] - Quote
perhaps we'll get the much waited for missile rebalance this summer aswell?????
rockets - HAMS - Torps 10km - 20km - 20km .. i see a pattern screw up here that needs fixing
also adding missiles to TE's/ TC's/ TD's would be nice Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
344
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:29:00 -
[220] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It's like this:
Before: Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù1.8 (Drone Interfacing IV) +ù1.05 (Sentry Interfacing I) = 151.2 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 200 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 50 damage +ù1.92 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 240 damage at max skills.
After: Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.4 (DI IV) +ù1.05 (SI I) = 159.9 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 204 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) +ù1.1 (Gal. Drone Spec V) = 224.4 damage at max skills.
T1 becomes 2% better at maxed skills (6% better at minimum skills); T2 becomes 6.5% worse at max skills (and max skills requires more SP). Hadn't actually looked at the spreadsheet before since I was on a phone, but you're absolutely right.
I was going just by what was said in the devblog: Quote:instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries. The implication there was that they would be increasing the base damage multiplier of T1 sentries to bring them on par with T2s, not nerfing T2s down to T1 levels (after accounting for a minor bump for the Drone Interfacing change).
Combined with the change to faction sentries to bring them up to T2 optimal/falloff, the base stats of faction are now strictly better than T2. So, the 20days of training to get T2 sentries gets you...literally nothing. You just get to "unlock" the bonus of the racial specialization, requiring you to spend 5ish more days to get an 8% bonus or 20 more days for a 2% additional bonus to one racial type. That's absurd and almost nobody will bother to spend the training time to get T2 sentries.
It would be like if you had to train a 5x specialization skill for each damage type of missiles in order to get the benefit.
It seems to me like they're trying to draw parallels between drones and guns/turrets, where T2 only has the specialization bonus over T1 and faction is actually better than T2 in some ways...except they completely forgot that one of the primary advantages of T2 turrets/guns is the ability to use T2 ammo for a big specific advantage (damage or range, usually) over T1 ammo. Since drones don't have T1/T2 ammo, shoehorning them into the same pattern is just stupid. A 20% increase in damage for using T2 sentries seems perfectly reasonable compared to the bonus you get for using T2 ammo in another weapon system.
But hey, on the bright side, at least missiles no longer have the most boneheaded and expensive skill progression anymore... |
|
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
690
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:32:00 -
[221] - Quote
so no low slot drone navigation computers then ??? :(( Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Venix
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:33:00 -
[222] - Quote
The damage on the spread sheet is not clear. All drones of equal size and tech do the same amount of damage now? I see 64 damage for each t2 heavy drone which is not what it says in the blog. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
344
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:34:00 -
[223] - Quote
Venix wrote:The damage on the spread sheet is not clear. All drones of equal size and tech do the same amount of damage now? I see 64 damage for each t2 heavy drone which is not what it says in the blog. That's how it works currently--they all have the same "base damage" but each has a different "damageMultiplier" which is how damage actually gets determined. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Disband.
1071
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:35:00 -
[224] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Yeah, whatever. I always believe everything a goon tells me. That has worked so well, for so many.
I'm not a goon and I can tell you he's telling the truth about newbies. They're a prized asset in the swarm. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
601
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:35:00 -
[225] - Quote
I would appreciate if you would examine drone sig radius as well.
If I'm in a small ship, I should be able to consistently hit medium drones, I would think. And if I'm in a BS, I should be able to consistently hit sentries. |
Venix
An Eye For An Eye AN EYE F0R AN EYE
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:45:00 -
[226] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Venix wrote:The damage on the spread sheet is not clear. All drones of equal size and tech do the same amount of damage now? I see 64 damage for each t2 heavy drone which is not what it says in the blog. That's how it works currently--they all have the same "base damage" but each has a different "damageMultiplier" which is how damage actually gets determined.
Did not even see that column. I feel like standard damage should have been done. Ogre IIs are still going to be the most used by far. |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
347
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:47:00 -
[227] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Yeah, whatever. I always believe everything a goon tells me. That has worked so well, for so many.
I'm not a goon and I can tell you he's telling the truth about newbies. They're a prized asset in the swarm.
Easily indoctrinated and spoiled by the offers, yep.
|
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
163
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:55:00 -
[228] - Quote
Yay! Faction DDAs! Hopefully they still give me added DPS beyond what I have now... after taking into account the slight sentry DPS nerf... and after I train for four frickin' months to get the four specialization 5 skills. |
Anika Ataru
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 21:59:00 -
[229] - Quote
Fact, that almost no one noticed, Caldari drones are already in proposed position being second best in terms of damage and second worst in tracking and speed, worries me a bit. Fact, that guy who rebalancing them didn't noticed that as well, worries me much more.. So Fozzie, you "fixing" Caldari drones by leaving them in place, where they already are. Makes sense.
I always thought damage modifiers between Amarr ad Minmatar drones should be switched as it was really out of place, so I approve that one. Making drones less skill heavy via change in drone interfacing and then separating scout drones into two skills instead of just one, is pretty silly though. I would rather see light/medium/heavy merged into one. |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
399
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:03:00 -
[230] - Quote
I just came in my pants. Drone sites are worth doing. DRONE SITES ARE WORTH DOING!!
|
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Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:10:00 -
[231] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:boohoo Must you consistently whine about everything?
Is he trolling maybe? |
War Wiessager
Hyperion Collective SCUM.
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:11:00 -
[232] - Quote
So my question is this, given what has been done in the past with battlecruisers and destroyers, if you can fly the t2 sentries now, will you be able to fly them post patch? I agree that there is lot of training for drones, but how does stacking more skills make it more friendly to new players? instead of changing skill training etc etc, why not work on UI for drone control, giving them buttons like every other weapon system, recall buttons, group deployment buttons, a real change. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
983
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:16:00 -
[233] - Quote
Yay, I'm glad I trained all drone spec to V. Also having drone spec skills add benefits to sentry drones has been on my wish list for 5+ years. Will the racial drone spec skills finally be a requirement for T2 sentries? Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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tsiliadora
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:20:00 -
[234] - Quote
i see a boost to shield sc and a big nerf to nyx (less to aeon)
positives things - now sc's can do something against 2-3 hictors in lowsec - less drones on grid --.> less lag
negatives
nyx is gonna be one of the worst sc's (7k dps in full tank fitted its not what you say good compared with 8600+ dps of shield sc's)
aeon in full tank fit has **** dps (5600) but hte extra low slot + the resist bonus make it reliable with 2 dda'a in fit (better than nyx but again worst than shield sc's)
my proposal make nyx bonus 10% than 5% (more fair) - total dps will be 8400 and if someone want to be paper tank let him have a greater dps
but give it the chance to be in balance in fights with other 3 sc's |
BeanBagKing
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
276
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:22:00 -
[235] - Quote
Drones From Different Empires I think you have some flaws in your assumptions about drones of different empires. If you have the data availible, I would encourage you not only go look at the number of shots fired in PvP by combat drones, but which drones fired those shots. I would be willing to bet that you would see two drones come out on top. Hammerhead II's and Warrior II's.
The reason behind this is that when choosing a small drone, you want something that will be fast enough to chase down frigates, mainly interceptors, and perhaps destroyers (interdictors). When choosing medium drones, you know you aren't going to send them chasing interceptors. They will mainly be doing damage to other cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships. You want high damage over speed.
From this point of view, your balancing isn't going to affect the choice of drones for... well, anyone that I can see. Players are either going to choice high damage medium drones or fast light drones. There might be a smattering of fast medium and dps light in there, but we're still focused on Gallente and Minmatar drones.
The balance pass might improve the Amarr and Caldari versions a bit, but it doesn't remove or change the underlying reasons why we don't use those drones. If you come back 6 months after this patch, I'm willing to bet that graph looks more or less the same. As an additional note, it's not going to change for PvE. Since most NPC's weakest, or second weakest resist is kinetic, Gallente drones do more damage to all NPC except one or two factions. I did the math a while ago, even when another damage type is the weakest resist, you do more damage by just powering through to the second resist with higher damage drones.
Balance for drone skills Saying that the Drone Interfacing skill "result is that drones have earned a reputation as a weapon system that is not suitable for new players." is downright false. I've never, ever seen players tell new players that they shouldn't bother with drones or that they somehow aren't suitable. The recommendation is always that if they can, use them. Now, for a midrange player not to have this skill, people might advise them to train it up, but I'm speaking of a player that is beginning to fly HAC's (Ishtar) battleships (Domi), or looking at their first carrier. Not new players.
I can still see how the skill might be overpowered, but I wanted to address this point. Drones are in no way "not suitable for new players"
Other things I saw questions about drone behavior brought up in the first few questions of this thread. I've seen other people on reddit bring up the issues when talking about sentry volley. The fact that drones often misbehave; the mwd, orbit, mwd, orbit cycle; the fact that sentries don't fire at the same time, fail to fire at all, move slightly causing them to drift into forcefields, etc.
My point is that while I think these steps are a move in the right direction when looking at drones, although I question some of the assumptions and solutions. I'm more concerned with the underlying code that causes wonkey drone behavior. Will this be addressed with some of these other changes? Is it coming? Or is it something we shouldn't expect to see? |
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:24:00 -
[236] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:admiral root wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Yeah, whatever. I always believe everything a goon tells me. That has worked so well, for so many.
I'm not a goon and I can tell you he's telling the truth about newbies. They're a prized asset in the swarm. Easily indoctrinated and spoiled by the offers, yep.
The truth, as usual, probably lies somewhere in the middle |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
691
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:28:00 -
[237] - Quote
i go the impression that sentries were going to get a 10% damage buff from the T2 racial drone skills.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:34:00 -
[238] - Quote
As a more elaborate follow-up [of sorts] to previous posts discussing the change to sentries, I'd like to point to a spreadsheet screenshot I took after doing a little number-crunching with the dev blog spreadsheet this afternoon. In brief:
Currently, going from Praetor2's to Curator2's yields ~7% more DPS. After the patch, it will be reduced by 4.8%. A significant loss.
Currently, going from Wasp2's to Warden2's loses 21.6% DPS. After the patch, it will be reduced by 22.2%. A minor, probably negligible difference. This seems okay.
Currently, going from Ogre2's to Garde2's loses 5.3% DPS. After the patch, it will be reduced by 11.46%. A significant loss.
Currently, going from Berserker2's to Bouncer2's yields ~2% more DPS. After the patch, it will be reduced by 3.85%. A minor loss.
Currently, going from sentries to heavies yields an average DPS loss of 4.48%.
After the patch, going from sentries to heavies yields an average DPS loss of 10.57%.
This is a [very] significant change--in effect, it is like strapping a NEGATIVE 6 damage implant to your sentry drone loadout in comparison to what current sentry drone users are working with.
Once again:
Please consider re-adding the tech2 damage bonus to sentries--albeit at a lower factor boost. This is what we obtain if the tech2 sentry damage bonus is 7%.
And the average percent-change is virtually the same! That looks pretty good. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20398
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:40:00 -
[239] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:Currently, going from sentries to heavies yields an average DPS loss of 4.48%. After the patch, going from sentries to heavies yields an average DPS loss of 10.57%.
This is a [very] significant change--in effect, it is like strapping a NEGATIVE 6 damage implant to your sentry drone loadout in comparison to what current sentry drone users are working with. GǪon the other hand, sentries have damage rigs and don't have to spend ages flying around the grid before engaging their targets. A bit less damage seems like a fair trade-off for those advantages. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
366
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:55:00 -
[240] - Quote
Holy Dronegasms, Batman! |
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Adam Reed
Aliastra Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:56:00 -
[241] - Quote
I've been playing this blasted game since 2005, and this might genuinely be the first Dev Blog I've read from start to finish in all those nine years. And I have to say these are splendid changes. Thank you CCP. |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
23
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 22:57:00 -
[242] - Quote
Capqu wrote:none of this explains why heavy (read: at LEAST a cruise sized weapon system) drones have the same tracking as an interceptor, and why the damage:range:tracking statistics of sentries are way above any other weapon system in the game
i mean are you happy with the fact that an interceptor cannot scram a ratting ishtar for more than 2 seconds if he drops heavies? ignoring the change made to npc ai a while back that is
are you happy with the fact that warrior iis are less scary than garde iis for frigates? give the bigger drones some kind of nerf against small targets please. gun signature resolution, tracking, scan resolution, please i'll take anything
THIS. Please make heavies and sentries actual battleshipweapons and not OP cruiser weapons. They already take no Fittingslots or CPU/PG nor ammo/cap. This already allows for so much utility or overtanking on droneboats. And now you are going to add even more DPS and fittingoptions with lowslottracking and faction DDAs. While there may be a nerf to T2 sentry dps there is still no other weaponsystem able to compete.
Also will the new light/mediumskills be the same rank as combat ops is now (so two times the SP)? |
Gizan
Hounds Of War WHY so Seri0Us
84
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 23:08:00 -
[243] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Grarr Dexx wrote:So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec? As I feel bad for the residents of lowsec, I'll have you know that I'm not only lobbying for lowsec assist to be fixed but also for the cap to be removed in lowsec only. If I'm successful, you, too, will be able to experience the pinnacle of elite pvp.
F**K YOU. if they enforce it somewhere it should be enforced everywhere.
|
Galphii
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
220
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 23:20:00 -
[244] - Quote
It would make more sense for Amarr to be 2nd most damage and slowest, considering they're amarr (slow and armoured) and lasers need all the help they can get burning through hulls. Just sayin'.
The 'fix' to these drones isn't going to change anything. Most damage? Stick with gallente. Fastest? Stick with matari. Anything in-between is pointless with your proposed change. Give them all the same damage output (just like fighters enjoy), but adjust their speed versus their resilience, because withstanding damage is a thing drones need to do nowadays. Heavies and even mediums deployed in missions get shredded pretty quickly. If I'm deploying amarr drones, it's because they should be tougher dammit. Simply having the option to choose damage types between races would prompt people to use different types for different situations. Me? I'll be sticking with gallente as thermal is the most useful and they'll still be the putting out the most damage after summer. EM is still the worst type to deal overall, and Kinetic is just behind it.
Signature sizes on heavy drones seem a bit too large - perhaps shrink them a little? They're not the same size as a cruiser, as it happens.
How about offering some racial t2 resists for t2 drones? Just a little bit, even 20%/10% would be useful
Good to hear you're finally reducing supercarrier drone numbers while doubling damage, the hamsters are rejoicing even now. It's also nice to have clarification on fighters and bombers. Sure, they're drones, but they're people too . Hopefully carrier pilots might start using them again, especially with drone damage amps. Nice one.
Any chance you can do the fighter bay/drone bay split on carriers and supers? Go on, you can squeeze it in X |
m3talc0re X
Solar Revolutions Co.
198
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 23:21:00 -
[245] - Quote
Just to be clear, can we get an official "no this is not an April Fools prank" please? |
Ayumi Shekki
Thee Almitee Ones
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 23:25:00 -
[246] - Quote
Also add ammo Bars to the drones, so the drones have to fly back to your ship to fill up. |
Mosh Mikhailov
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 23:39:00 -
[247] - Quote
Don't know if this is april fools but overall they seem like reasonable changes, especially the changes to fighters but I can't help but feel you guys are shafting armor supercarriers with these changes. Shield supers have known to be superior to armor supers for awhile now but after these changes it will be clearly unbalanced yet again this time in favor of the shield supers. The armor supers will have to sacrifice huge portions of their tanks for the low slots needed for DDAs whilst the shield supers will only sacrifice a very small portion and can fit even more DDAs if they wanted, usually this would be made up by the fact that armor supers have the option to play around with their mid slots and thus have omnidirectional tracking links for better damage application but that goes out of the window now with the implementation of low slot versions of the omnidirectional tracking links which clearly gives the shield supers a large advantage as they can have a much more superior tank with superior damage and damage application.
Either you need to buff the innate armor tanking bonuses of the armor supers (heh that will never happen), don't implement low slot omnidirectional tracking links or implement mid slot DDAs. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2424
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 23:50:00 -
[248] - Quote
Broadly like the changes. Haven't read the comments so far. I use drone ships for a variety of activities, from ganking to PVE to solo PVP. I have little fleet experience in drone ships.
The skill changes are a huge improvement, with the benefits of training Drones/Drone Interfacing being more front-loaded.
Questions:
1) My understanding is that the Augmented and Integrated drones are not going to perform better (for a high skilled pilot) than tech 2 drones. Why is this? These are low end and medium end deadspace drops, and in most situations low to medium end deadspace modules outclass mass produceable tech 2 modules.
2) Has consideration been given to making one of the racial sentries a role as the long-range answer to frigates? (Lowest damage by far, good tracking, long range)
3) Currently a decent Interceptor pilot is a hard counter for a drone ship (I'm not claiming this is a bad thing). What are your feelings on this?
4) Will there be low-end named (meta level 1 to 4) Drone Damage Amplifiers and other drone paraphenalia? These would certainly be of use, probably as low skilled or low CPU alternatives to DDA2s, but also possibly as invention consumables.
5) How do you feel about the state of the various drone-related rigs? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
General Nusense
Not Posting With My Main
126
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 23:52:00 -
[249] - Quote
So you are changing some stuff, but yet, you are still leaving the drones broke. when will you fix them so they do what you command them to do?
Anyone that has used drones knows that they will wonder off and do what they want even if you have it selected to "Focus Fire". |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2424
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 23:54:00 -
[250] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:As someone that actually has Amarr Drone Specialization V, I'm happy that I can finally get some use out of that skill!
It's useful on the live server for ganking Mackinaws (using a Vexor). Amarr drones do the best damage against most tanked exhumers, due to the natural resists of the Mackinaw and the typical tanking modules and rigs fitted to exhumers that expect to be visited by Catalyst pilots.
That said, I'm not masochistic enough to have trained it beyond level 4. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 --áPsychotic Monk for CSM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
|
Tasha Saisima
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 23:59:00 -
[251] - Quote
lot of stuff is missing. ewar drones are still horrible, no drone UI, nothing about drone mechanics |
Mara Denais
Mara Denais Tax Evasion
53
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 23:59:00 -
[252] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:As someone that actually has Amarr Drone Specialization V, I'm happy that I can finally get some use out of that skill!
As someone who has the t2 medium amarr drone bpo |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
163
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 00:01:00 -
[253] - Quote
Tippia wrote: It's like this:
Before: Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù1.8 (Drone Interfacing IV) +ù1.05 (Sentry Interfacing I) = 151.2 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 200 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 50 damage +ù1.92 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 240 damage at max skills.
After: Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.4 (DI IV) +ù1.05 (SI I) = 159.9 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 204 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) +ù1.1 (Gal. Drone Spec V) = 224.4 damage at max skills.
T1 becomes 2% better at maxed skills (6% better at minimum skills); T2 becomes 6.5% worse at max skills (and max skills requires more SP).
So my exploration Ishtar is going to do 748 DPS instead of its current 800 DPS, assuming I train for 19 days to get Gallente spec up to 5. That blows. Starting to look like its gonna take 19 days and 400mil in faction DDAs to make my Garde IIs perform the same as they do now. |
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 00:17:00 -
[254] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Methonash Qorranto wrote:Currently, going from sentries to heavies yields an average DPS loss of 4.48%. After the patch, going from sentries to heavies yields an average DPS loss of 10.57%.
This is a [very] significant change--in effect, it is like strapping a NEGATIVE 6 damage implant to your sentry drone loadout in comparison to what current sentry drone users are working with. GǪon the other hand, sentries have damage rigs
Someone's never tried using SDAs with DDAs!~
So, most folks aren't aware of this, but there is a cross-penalty between SDAs and DDAs: since DDAs objectively offer more of a bonus, a decent droneboat aiming for maximum DPS will throw at least 2-4 of those on.
After 4 DDA2's are on the ship, each SDA rig will be subsequently 1-2% effective. That is, it will change your overall drone DPS by...maybe a couple points at best. Single digit differences. (This is why you always see sentry guys, who are worth their weight in salt for DPS, never wasting rig slots on SDAs.)
While SDA rigs work perfectly well when tested on a naked ship with only the rigs [and no DDAs fitted in the low slots], the minute you stack 4 DDAs on, those SDA benefits drop to ~0.
TL;DR - SDA rigs are complete garbage. Pretend that they don't exist, because they may as well not exist to begin with.
Tippia wrote: and don't have to spend ages flying around the grid before engaging their targets. A bit less damage seems like a fair trade-off for those advantages.
That's like a DPS loanshark coming up to a sentry pilot, beating the stuffing out of them with a nerfbat, and then saying, "Well, look at all these tactical advantages you ALREADY HAD - guess what? You paid for them before (what with having less DPS than heavies), but now you're going to have to pay for them - AGAIN - BY LOSING EVEN MORE DPS!" |
Apaolo Miros
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 00:29:00 -
[255] - Quote
Ewar drones? Logistics (lesser extent)?
I was expecting to see them adjusted - that's a rich area for diversifying combat strategy.
|
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
693
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 00:41:00 -
[256] - Quote
Apaolo Miros wrote:Ewar drones? Logistics (lesser extent)?
I was expecting to see them adjusted - that's a rich area for diversifying combat strategy.
and mining drones too Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Red Teufel
Conflagrated Authority
372
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 00:50:00 -
[257] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote:Capqu wrote:none of this explains why heavy (read: at LEAST a cruise sized weapon system) drones have the same tracking as an interceptor, and why the damage:range:tracking statistics of sentries are way above any other weapon system in the game
i mean are you happy with the fact that an interceptor cannot scram a ratting ishtar for more than 2 seconds if he drops heavies? ignoring the change made to npc ai a while back that is
are you happy with the fact that warrior iis are less scary than garde iis for frigates? give the bigger drones some kind of nerf against small targets please. gun signature resolution, tracking, scan resolution, please i'll take anything THIS. Please make heavies and sentries actual battleshipweapons and not OP cruiser weapons. They already take no Fittingslots or CPU/PG nor ammo/cap. This already allows for so much utility or overtanking on droneboats. And now you are going to add even more DPS and fittingoptions with lowslottracking and faction DDAs. While there may be a nerf to T2 sentry dps there is still no other weaponsystem able to compete. Also will the new light/mediumskills be the same rank as combat ops is now (so two times the SP)?
1. sentry can be destroyed. 2. sentry does not move. 3. you know nothing.
|
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
1027
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 00:55:00 -
[258] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:
Edit 2: Good luck tackling this in lowsec with less than 3 HICs
i hope that doesn't become a thing, would be such a pain to fight against without big numbers |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
164
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 01:02:00 -
[259] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:Capqu wrote:
THIS. Please make heavies and sentries actual battleshipweapons and not OP cruiser weapons. They already take no Fittingslots or CPU/PG nor ammo/cap. This already allows for so much utility or overtanking on droneboats. And now you are going to add even more DPS and fittingoptions with lowslottracking and faction DDAs. While there may be a nerf to T2 sentry dps there is still no other weaponsystem able to compete.
Also will the new light/mediumskills be the same rank as combat ops is now (so two times the SP)?
1. sentry can be destroyed. 2. sentry does not move. 3. you know nothing.
4. sentries require a lot of clicking and dragging using radial menus to use efficiently. 5. sentries must be recalled when taking damage from NPCs, resulting in a loss of DPS in competitive situations like hisec exploration sites, that turret using ships do not have to deal with. 6. sentries are locked into 1 damage type. Another set of sentries must be carried to switch damage type. Not practical to carry all damage types like turret and missile users can with ammo. 7. sentries do not have implants that boost DPS and other traits like guns and missiles do.
In summary, drones and guns/missiles can not be directly compared.
|
stoicfaux
4347
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 01:15:00 -
[260] - Quote
Quote:he number of shots fired in PvP by combat drones ... from each of the four races in the last year Yet, the logs still show nothing...
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
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L0SER18q
My Little Pony Industries Inc. Out of Sight.
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 01:24:00 -
[261] - Quote
30% fighter bombers damage nerf? CCP Fozzie, are u mad? |
god7705
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 01:37:00 -
[262] - Quote
So they Nyx will maintain its 175,000m3 drone bay size?
I presume that means we will be able to carry a flight of Bombers say 10 = 100,000m3 and 15 Fighters = 75,000m3 (or some mix not to exceed 175k m3). Wny not increase the Drone Bay so that we could carry varying Drone Damage types?
The spreadsheet didn't annotate the Drone Bandwidth of 12,500. Is Bandwidth changing?
What about the "Can deploy 3 additional Fighters or Fighter Bombers"? So you have to have carrier 5 to deploy 10 without Drone Control Units? What if a pilot has Carrier 5 and 4 or 5 Drone Control units?
This seems sneakily like a major Nyx nerf and/or there is another blog coming related to Supers/Carriers?
|
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3174
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 01:58:00 -
[263] - Quote
Quote:To compensate for these changes, the base damage of Fighters and Fighter Bombers is being reducedGǪ This change allows Supercarriers to deal the same damage as they currently enjoy while causing less server load. If you want to create less server load, you need to incentivize carrier pilots to utilize fighters and fighter-bombers over standard sentry (etc.) drones - and this doesn't achieve that. This is a huge nerf for both carriers and supercarriers because they will have to fit two drone damage amplifiers just to achieve the same DPS. Fighter damage should be left as is, plus the new bonuses from drone skills and the special supercarrier bonus (where applicable).
And why aren't these being posted as a sticky under Features and Ideas? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Jenna Olgidar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 02:07:00 -
[264] - Quote
<--- got two characters with all the race drone specs to 5
So... before a nyx pilot can put up to 25 fb out doing normal dps with 5 drone controls on.
after patch.. nyx pilot can put 15 drones out with 5 drone controls on and 2x dps so has a total damage of 30 fb orginal dps?
does that sound right?
and if we are to remove Fighters/Fighter Bombers from bays how much of a bay do we have to keep?
I think that the nerf to fb dps is to much i think you should keep it like the fighters where at level 5 they are put to normal. having to put 2 dps mods on just to get them to be at or just above what they are. thats 2 slots where other items like armor mods go. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
351
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 02:14:00 -
[265] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:This is a huge nerf for both carriers and supercarriers because they will have to fit two drone damage amplifiers just to achieve the same DPS. And that's a bad thing?
Also, from what I read, only SCs will need the two DDAs. Carriers will just need Interfacing V (which they should already have). |
Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises StarFleet.
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 02:34:00 -
[266] - Quote
Sounds like a perfect time to revamp the Drone Control Unit to me w/ the fighter/bomber changes. DCUs are basically worthless on supers when Reps/Smartbombs/Cloak/Projected ECM are so much more useful in fleets. Make the DCU something I actually want to use in fleets, please. (Preferably by making it to where I don't need to use 5 high slots for it to be somewhat useful)
And hate the super nerf to fighter count anyways.
It is not a new idea, years ago when supers were first redone, the devs tried to implement the limit of 10 fighters/bombers, but the players successfully pushed back against it. One of the main reasons why is that 20 fighters/bombers just make a super feel like a super with so many drones flying swarming around it. So I hope the 20 fighters/bombers are kept. Server performance is important, but so is immersion. |
Sirober
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 02:37:00 -
[267] - Quote
So you just made the Aeon king of super carriers. It will be able to out tank and out dmg the Nyx now. GG Fozzie ******* **** up as usual. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6801
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 02:39:00 -
[268] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:This is a huge nerf for both carriers and supercarriers because they will have to fit two drone damage amplifiers just to achieve the same DPS. And that's a bad thing? Also, from what I read, only SCs will need the two DDAs. Carriers will just need Interfacing V (which they should already have). please just remove the carrier skill for anyone who has it but doesn't have interfacing v when you do the skill changes Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Jenna Olgidar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 02:44:00 -
[269] - Quote
Sirober wrote:So you just made the Aeon king of super carriers. It will be able to out tank and out dmg the Nyx now. GG Fozzie ******* **** up as usual.
Well to honest Wyvern is the new king with a higher EHP and able to fit all the mods in lows. however not many super pilots are wyvern users and most people that have proper shield skills are carebears.
So yes the Aeon just beat the NYX. |
Sirober
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 02:48:00 -
[270] - Quote
Jenna Olgidar wrote:Sirober wrote:So you just made the Aeon king of super carriers. It will be able to out tank and out dmg the Nyx now. GG Fozzie ******* **** up as usual. Well to honest Wyvern is the new king with a higher EHP and able to fit all the mods in lows. however not many super pilots are wyvern users and most people that have proper shield skills are carebears. So yes the Aeon just beat the NYX.
Right well with all of eve using Archons as carriers, armor is the only way to go. Why you ask? Because Archons are OP, just like Aeon is now OP. |
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4975
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 03:02:00 -
[271] - Quote
Also since you are messing with drones. Would you be a true hero and just remove all electronic warfare drones from the game. Thanks.
No seriously, remove them. Every single one of them is complete trash except ECM which due to the mechanics of ECM, turns every ship with a drone bay into a diet Falcon. It breaks the game on so many levels it is not even remotely fun. . |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 03:07:00 -
[272] - Quote
CCP, please address this:
Now that Drones are finally getting a full set of Faction mods, when will you add in Implants? Drones are the only weapon system for which there are no implants for. Additionally, there are not a full set of Rig for drones either. For example there is a rig for Sentry drone damage, but none for Light/Medium/Heavy/All of the above.
It would be nice to see these added, ideally at the same time as the faction mods.
Secondly, I noticed one missing faction from the list of Drone mods. Sister of Eve. Now that they are an entity with drone damage based ships, they too should probably be included in the list of stores for faction drone mods.
All in all I like the changes. Some of them are a long time coming :) Should make for an interesting summer to say the least. |
Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 03:08:00 -
[273] - Quote
After the refining nerf/crap blog I was scared to even look at these changes.
Outside of fighters/bombers, which I dont use and wont comment on, the drone changes at least make sense. I wont give you a thumbs up, but I will say that since Ammar drones wont be worth reprocessing, at least they will have a use in the game. |
XBruin
Black Horse Corporation B4D W0LF INDUSTRIES
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 03:15:00 -
[274] - Quote
This is very clearly a nerf to Armor Supercaps's tank, while Shield ones remain untouched.
CCP Fozzie you were called out on this earlier in the thread and you have so far avoided addressing this particular point.
Can we have some transparency and talk us through this decision please. |
Varun Arthie
Lone Star Warriors Yulai Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 03:26:00 -
[275] - Quote
This change will likely make shield super more popular as you can stack damage and Cap mods in the lows and shield tank in the meds now. Mind you, the Hel is still terrible so prehaps will get balanced by CCP sometime in the next decade. The changes to fighters and fighter bombers means they now have a higher alpha, should be more interesting.
Once again everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and crying nerf! but as half of you likely haven't read the dev blog in detail you still likely haven't realised that the whole point of it is to make the skill less confusing, although trying to figure out what drones are covered by the racial drone skill is a task in itself.
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XBruin
Black Horse Corporation B4D W0LF INDUSTRIES
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 03:52:00 -
[276] - Quote
Varun Arthie wrote:This change will likely make shield super more popular as you can stack damage and Cap mods in the lows and shield tank in the meds now. Mind you, the Hel is still terrible so prehaps will get balanced by CCP sometime in the next decade. The changes to fighters and fighter bombers means they now have a higher alpha, should be more interesting.
Once again everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and crying nerf! but as half of you likely haven't read the dev blog in detail you still likely haven't realised that the whole point of it is to make the skill less confusing, although trying to figure out what drones are covered by the racial drone skill is a task in itself.
I have read it all twice. As far as supercarriers go, ultimately this boils down to 3 points:
- Armor Supers lose 2 low slots to retain the same Fighter Bomber damage rate. Today these low slots are utilised almost entirely by tank modules. Therefore the balance has just been heavily tipped in favour of Shield supers, i.e. Wyvern. Was this a conscious decision? If yes, why?
- Aeons now completely eclipse the Nyx in terms of usefulness. Was this a conscious decision? If yes, why? If not, then maybe he needs to reconsider. Perhaps he's trying to make the Nyx as useless in the Armor category to make up for the Hel's uselessness in the Shield category.
- There's 2 types of rebalancing: Ensuring attributes are fair for ships classes/modules/drones/etc, and then there's discouraging bias for mass-adoption of a single race / damage platform, as the assumption is that the reason the majority of players adopt ship type X with weapons platform Y is because X and Y are OP.
It's given that Armor supercarriers are by far the most popular today. So now, by making shield supers MUCH better than Armor, there is still imbalance as far as attributes go, it is simply flipped on its head rather than "fixed" to address the lack of shield super adoption. There is now a huge incentive for existing players to make a switch to shield. After 2 years, will the attributes finally be evened out?
In my opinion, trying to modify player behaviour, as opposed to balancing attributes across races, is ultimately CCP game intervention, which they do not want to admit to doing. CCP Fozzie, your thoughts? |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 04:13:00 -
[277] - Quote
While this is a buff for Shield Carriers/Supers, one must remember, that Caps only exist in fleets. To make them successful, you need a fleet of them to cross rep each other and keep each other up. The problem is, no one uses Shield Caps. I mean they are out there, but in small numbers.
The only way to make Shields viable in this area would be to make them OP, so that alliances would train up for and build shield cap fleets, then they could rebalance them back to being in line with Armour and both fleets would exist finally.
Until then, or some alliance really decided to make the commitment, shield caps/supers will remain an oddity on the battle field. Regardless of how much more DPS they might be able to field with this change, if there isn't enough of them to provide the reps to keep them alive, then it's moot. Who cares if a Chimera does 20% more DPS than a Thanny, then it dies twice as fast. |
GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 04:14:00 -
[278] - Quote
Nice changes,
I had a thought recently on sentry drones and the major differences between gardes and wardens which led to a theory of short and long range sentry drones. As all the weapon platforms have a short and long range variant for each type (blasters / rails, pulse / beams, and autocannons / artillery) It would be plausible to have a short and long range drone of each damage type allowing for more options. This would of course require doubling the number of sentry drones in the game and a major rebalance of all current sentry drones.
So what does the *activation proximity* stat on drones do, is this the threshold that must be crossed for a drone to shoot its target? Standard values for this tend to be lower than the drones maximum potential optimal range / falloff. For example a Templar fighter has an optimal range of 4500 base, but its activation proximity is 4000. does this mean that the templar could potentially have a ~10000 optimal from skills and omni's but it wont engage a target until its within 4000?
Fighters have long been very lackluster. while the skill changes are a nice improvment it would be nice to see some further stat changes for the fighters. Also same theory for fighters as sentrys, short and long range variants for each race would be interesting.
Small thought, there is no *drone tracking skill* not saying that i want one, just pointing out that there isn't one and if it were to be a thing this would be the time. |
iskflakes
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 04:47:00 -
[279] - Quote
I've run the numbers on Nyx vs Aeon after the changes, specifically looking at their role in fleet fights and capital ganks. As far as I can see the Aeon now wins every time.
With the changes to drone damage amps the aeon can have the DPS the Nyx used to have, and also have a better tank at the same time. Unless you want to do some kind of comedy "max dps" fit there will be little reason to ever choose a Nyx over an Aeon.
Details:
An aeon with two drone damage amps fit will get around 29.7m EHP (implants, no boosts). With two drone damage amps it will do ~43% above base damage. A nyx with full tank fit gets around 28.7 million EHP, and does 25% above base damage (hull bonus).
What if we want to put a DDA on the nyx? Now it tanks 23.4 million. That's equivalent to an aeon with 3 DDAs. The aeon is now doing 56% above base damage. The Nyx is doing 48% above base damage. Again, the aeon wins on tank and damage.
If we add a second DDA to the nyx, it now edges out ahead in DPS of an aeon with 4 DDAs, though the aeon still wins in tank.
The aeon tanks better, it has higher resists and it does more DPS in 90% of situations. It also has the extremely valuable remote cap transfer range bonus and the option to refit to a huge tank. The nyx has an additional 5 spare fighters (or 2 bombers), an extra midslot, and the comparatively useless shield transfer range bonus. It can't match the aeon's tank in any situation.
The spare midslot on the nyx could be used for damage application, though there is no midslot module that will significantly affect fighter bomber damage. The midslot can be used for cap rechargers, but the aeon can use cap power relays which are substantially better (while still maintaining equal DPS and superior tank).
After these changes we may see a decrease in ship diversity as people switch to Aeons. - |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5565
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 04:52:00 -
[280] - Quote
Personally I'm unswayed by a lot of the min/max fiddly little objections to the drone changes because, as a general rule, I tend to pick drones that offer me an alternative damage type compared to my main weapons. This has always served me well, particularly when flying Amarr vessels, and will be an even stronger strategy in the future.
I think there is probably some truth in the supposition that some of the changes encourage the use of shield over armor, and I really don't have a problem with that either. With some of the new modules coming out as well, it should shake up a lot of current fitting and fleet composition doctrines. Should be interesting to see how it shakes out... it likely won't end up the way everyone is currently thinking. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
217
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 05:28:00 -
[281] - Quote
Good changes
Any chance for you guys to look at ewar drones?!? |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
185
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 05:45:00 -
[282] - Quote
So what about mining drones and salvage drones, what happens to their speed and other stats ? Because currently you get 20% yield for mining drones from drone interfacing and you are still going leave the adv. drone interfacing as it is ? Even if nobody and I mean nobody except "all to V or bust" crowd and some most desperate carrier ratters even think about ever raising that skill over 3. Frankly the most useless skill in all of EVE that only effect one ship type and one module that hardly sees any use beyond maybe 3 max. unless those ships also appear in conjunction with a fail mail. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2289
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 05:53:00 -
[283] - Quote
After some thought regarding the changes. As a blanket effect they are good over all, but when broken down some of them are less appealing.
Like was stated earlier in the thread, the go to drones will still be Gallente drones and Minmatar drones, Amarr and Caldari drones will still see little use, Amarr drones admittedly will see more use than before. To truly solve that issue, you would need drones to all deal the same DPS and give differences to other areas, much the way Fighter Drones are handled.
Heavy Drones, the increased MWD velocity is nice, but the reality of it is; it wont help that much. Close range battleship engagements tend to be in the 20~30km range with an optimal range of 1km they need to travel 15~25km before engaging their target and with the buff that will still take 10 or more seconds.
The skill split for medium and light drones hurts new players harder than you may realize, with so many of Gallente's drone ships using mixed sized drones. A possible solution to this is making drone control a ship based feature similar to how turret and launcher hard points are rather than a skill based feature. Then ships like the Algos and Vexor could use "proper" sized drones and get some extra drones to compensate for no longer using larger than normal drones. EX: Algos Drone Control 6, Bandwidth 30, Dronebay 60. Or Myrmidon Drone Control 8, Bandwidth 80, Drone Bay 200. -á --á |
Iomi Alabosa
Dead Star Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:00:00 -
[284] - Quote
Love improvements. Overall these sound fine. Just one thing:
In all the excitement over rebalancing, please don't lose sight of the fact that currently "Drone interface" is an oxymoron. It would be really nice to see a proper HUD or at least a new drone UI that is more than a Windows Explorer window. It should be far easier to exert finer control over individual drones and to attack/recall/repair them than it is currently.
Please? |
Gremmel
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:16:00 -
[285] - Quote
As someone who barely uses them this looks fine to me, although how lucky am I that I JUST started an alt that is going to be focused on Gallente frig/cruiser combat. The much needed UI overhaul however is sadly lacking from this blog, there's a lot of different ideas on how to redo the current boring spreadsheet into something exciting that functions just the same but takes less space. |
Narcil
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:16:00 -
[286] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:I've run the numbers on Nyx vs Aeon after the changes, specifically looking at their role in fleet fights and capital ganks. As far as I can see the Aeon now wins every time.
With the changes to drone damage amps the aeon can have the DPS the Nyx used to have, and also have a better tank at the same time. Unless you want to do some kind of comedy "max dps" fit there will be little reason to ever choose a Nyx over an Aeon.
Details:
An aeon with two drone damage amps fit will get around 29.7m EHP (implants, no boosts). With two drone damage amps it will do ~43% above base damage. A nyx with full tank fit gets around 28.7 million EHP, and does 25% above base damage (hull bonus).
What if we want to put a DDA on the nyx? Now it tanks 23.4 million. That's equivalent to an aeon with 3 DDAs. The aeon is now doing 56% above base damage. The Nyx is doing 48% above base damage. Again, the aeon wins on tank and damage.
If we add a second DDA to the nyx, it now edges out ahead in DPS of an aeon with 4 DDAs, though the aeon still wins in tank.
The aeon tanks better, it has higher resists and it does more DPS in 90% of situations. It also has the extremely valuable remote cap transfer range bonus and the option to refit to a huge tank. The nyx has an additional 5 spare fighters (or 2 bombers), an extra midslot, and the comparatively useless shield transfer range bonus. It can't match the aeon's tank in any situation.
The spare midslot on the nyx could be used for damage application, though there is no midslot module that will significantly affect fighter bomber damage. The midslot can be used for cap rechargers, but the aeon can use cap power relays which are substantially better (while still maintaining equal DPS and superior tank).
After these changes we may see a decrease in ship diversity as people switch to Aeons. What if you fit 2 DCUs to the supers. i think the nyx with no dda would outdps the aeon with one dda (with 2 DCUs each), but the difference is pretty small. Although they really need bigger drone bay and fleet hangar if they want to make DCUs viable. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2166
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:20:00 -
[287] - Quote
What worries me is that the complete pig's ear CCP have made with drone 'balancing' over the past 18 months or so, seems to suggest that they are simply incapable of thinking through any of the latest 'whizz bang - super exciting' ideas any of their staff seem to draw up at random on the back of a very small postcard.
CCP need to recognize that Eve players are very good at coming up with the best way to utilize any ship and weapon configuration to get the most from them.
Simply and constantly nerfing the flavour of the month into the ground, is indicative of a failure on the part of CCP to understand their own game.
As the Japanese taught us in my job, (pharmaceuticals) think twice, cut once.
This is not a signature. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2527
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:28:00 -
[288] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Tippia wrote: It's like this:
Before: Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù1.8 (Drone Interfacing IV) +ù1.05 (Sentry Interfacing I) = 151.2 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 200 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 50 damage +ù1.92 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 240 damage at max skills.
After: Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.4 (DI IV) +ù1.05 (SI I) = 159.9 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 204 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) +ù1.1 (Gal. Drone Spec V) = 224.4 damage at max skills.
T1 becomes 2% better at maxed skills (6% better at minimum skills); T2 becomes 6.5% worse at max skills (and max skills requires more SP).
So my exploration Ishtar is going to do 748 DPS instead of its current 800 DPS, assuming I train for 19 days to get Gallente spec up to 5. That blows. Starting to look like its gonna take 19 days and 400mil in faction DDAs to make my Garde IIs perform the same as they do now. And I still won't be able to control them via F1-F5 like any other weapon in game. Or move around while using them. Arg.
Bingo. Another huge nerf to drone users , and this is weeks after the destruction in use of the Omni. But remember, this is the same guy that brought us the AI change that drove us from heavies to sentries in the first place. Plus, I would just love to hear what some gun jockey would say if he had to train a 19 day skill for each ammo type. Guess it is time for an autocannnon pilot to learn seven 19 days skills to use every ammo type.
One last thing, what is the over/under on when the Domi / Ishtar get their drone bonuses nerfed to hell? You KNOW that is coming with this dev's hatred of drones. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2527
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:34:00 -
[289] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The skill split for medium and light drones hurts new players harder than you may realize, with so many of Gallente's drone ships using mixed sized drones.
LOL...just look at this dev's track record when it comes to the New Player Experience. Also, look at his track record of modifying changes once he announces them.
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 06:45:00 -
[290] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote: As the Japanese taught us in my job, (pharmaceuticals) think twice, act once.
Agreed!
So on that note...am I the only one in this thread who thinks it's a little ridiculous that, in the new drone scheme, Garde2's will have 18 km of falloff, while Curator2's will only possess 12 km of falloff?
Since when have blasters had 50%(!!!) more falloff than lasers? And since when, for that matter, have blasters ever had 150% of their optimal range in terms of falloff? This high-percentage-of-optimal-as-falloff sounds like an artillery platform, but we've already got bouncers for that.
It just doesn't make very much sense - if we are to faithfully follow the convention of "greater DPS, lower range/falloff", then Garde2's should have the lowest falloff, in addition to the lowest optimal range--which they did previously, but now they're suddenly receiving an unexplained mega-falloff-buff.
Gardes aren't railgun platforms--we know they're blasters, because they shoot little blaster mini-bolts! The wardens are the railgun platforms, and their visual FX reflect that.
:-/ |
|
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:09:00 -
[291] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote: As the Japanese taught us in my job, (pharmaceuticals) think twice, act once.
Agreed! So on that note...am I the only one in this thread who thinks it's a little ridiculous that, in the new drone scheme, Garde2's will have 18 km of falloff, while Curator2's will only possess 12 km of falloff? Since when have blasters had 50%(!!!) more falloff than lasers? And since when, for that matter, have blasters ever had 150% of their optimal range in terms of falloff? This high-percentage-of-optimal-as-falloff sounds like an artillery platform, but we've already got bouncers for that. It just doesn't make very much sense - if we are to faithfully follow the convention of "greater DPS, lower range/falloff", then Garde2's should have the lowest falloff, in addition to the lowest optimal range--which they did previously, but now they're suddenly receiving an unexplained mega-falloff-buff. Gardes aren't railgun platforms--we know they're blasters, because they shoot little blaster mini-bolts! The wardens are the railgun platforms, and their visual FX reflect that. :-/
You didn't bother to check any actual numbers, did you?
|
Nonoyesyes
Evolution Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:11:00 -
[292] - Quote
I'm still hoping the super-capital changes are an April fools joke
I can appreciate and support reducing in the number of fighter-bombers. It will help with server lag, and will give switched on pilots to repair the damage if your bombers are taking random damage, but any concerted effort will still kill them off far to quickly (see: Alpha-strike or multiple bombing runs in quick succession)
Give super-carriers the ability to hold several waves of replacement bombers please
Reduce the buff for shield super-carriers by standardising the damage for aeons / nyx with no damage mods fit. Why should a shield based super-carrier be able to fit full tank as well as gank?
(Although I can appreciate the shield super-carriers have been the poorer cousin of their armour counterparts for a while. But is that an intentional buff or unintended feature?)
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2331
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:12:00 -
[293] - Quote
Players: Man your sov system sucks and is super boring you should fix it
CCP: Sure guys we're working on it!
*Nerfs the tool used to make that job less lifesucking*
Swear to god, this company would throw a drowning man a sack of bricks. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Frank Pannon
105
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:13:00 -
[294] - Quote
Maybe there is not enough information available yet to anwser this, but I am curious.
Will this mean a shift from armor carriers towards their shield variant? More Chimeras and Wyverns? Maybe I just cerry-pick one thing from the blog and there are other aspects to consider.
Can someone with hands-on experience with capital fleets reflect on this? |
Narcil
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:27:00 -
[295] - Quote
Frank Pannon wrote:Maybe there is not enough information available yet to anwser this, but I am curious.
Will this mean a shift from armor carriers towards their shield variant? More Chimeras and Wyverns? Maybe I just cerry-pick one thing from the blog and there are other aspects to consider.
Can someone with hands-on experience with capital fleets reflect on this? i think it's unlikely to change anything. no matter how good they make shield supers the quantity of armor titans already in game will assure that substantial capital fleets stay armor. |
Ron Mexxico
Broski North
70
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:37:00 -
[296] - Quote
will the racial drone spec skills affect fighters / bombers? |
Narcil
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:39:00 -
[297] - Quote
Ron Mexxico wrote:will the racial drone spec skills affect fighters / bombers? it was answered earlier somewhere. no it doesn't since F/FBs are T1. |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 07:54:00 -
[298] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote: 1. sentry can be destroyed. 2. sentry does not move. 3. you know nothing.
1. You have 375 dronebay and another 2 sets in cargohold. Trying to eat through 10+ drones is a waste of time unless have spare bomberwings. 2. so? That makes their tracking better and if someone made it to a place where he can apply dps and you do not you can just abandon and relaunch. 3. If I know nothing then what is the less than nothing you know called?
Unezka Turigahl wrote: 4. sentries require a lot of clicking and dragging using radial menus to use efficiently. 5. sentries must be recalled when taking damage from NPCs, resulting in a loss of DPS in competitive situations like hisec exploration sites, that turret using ships do not have to deal with. 6. sentries are locked into 1 damage type. Another set of sentries must be carried to switch damage type. Not practical to carry all damage types like turret and missile users can with ammo. 7. sentries do not have implants that boost DPS and other traits like guns and missiles do.
In summary, drones and guns/missiles can not be directly compared.
4. Droneinterface is bad, yes. Welcome to eve. But in exchange you get a weapon that fires when you go afk or are jammed. 5. People have been running sleepersite with drones for ages. You just need to learn how to control AI aggression for PvE. Doesn-¦t matter in PvP at all. 6. All that explosive damage from lasers is really a problem. 7. true, I guess that is on the list for fixing. Like we are getting faction DDAs now.
Maybe you can not compare them 1-1, but overall drones have massive advantages over turrets esp and very little drawbacks.
The no fittingrequirements is just so strong. Turretships need to downgrade their guns often enough to fit a decent tank while droneboats can fit 3 tankmodules or fill the highslots up on neuts etc. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20413
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:02:00 -
[299] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Bingo. Another huge nerf to drone users , and this is weeks after the destruction in use of the Omni. It's not a huge nerf by any stretch of the imagination, and it comes on the heels of numerous drone buffs that made them silly effective against everything. This change simply puts them back in a more sane place, both in terms of damage output and damage application.
Quote:But remember, this is the same guy that brought us the AI change that drove us from heavies to sentries in the first place. No, it's not. Heavies were always awful and sentries were always better GÇö the introduction of rat AI did not change this. If you were using heavies before Level1 AI, you were doing it wrong.
Quote:Plus, I would just love to hear what some gun jockey would say if he had to train a 19 day skill for each ammo type. Oh, they have to train a whole lot more than that to get each racial variation of their size category. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Isbariya
Thundercats The Initiative.
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:06:00 -
[300] - Quote
Narcil wrote:iskflakes wrote:I've run the numbers on Nyx vs Aeon after the changes, specifically looking at their role in fleet fights and capital ganks. As far as I can see the Aeon now wins every time.
With the changes to drone damage amps the aeon can have the DPS the Nyx used to have, and also have a better tank at the same time. Unless you want to do some kind of comedy "max dps" fit there will be little reason to ever choose a Nyx over an Aeon.
Details:
An aeon with two drone damage amps fit will get around 29.7m EHP (implants, no boosts). With two drone damage amps it will do ~43% above base damage. A nyx with full tank fit gets around 28.7 million EHP, and does 25% above base damage (hull bonus).
What if we want to put a DDA on the nyx? Now it tanks 23.4 million. That's equivalent to an aeon with 3 DDAs. The aeon is now doing 56% above base damage. The Nyx is doing 48% above base damage. Again, the aeon wins on tank and damage.
If we add a second DDA to the nyx, it now edges out ahead in DPS of an aeon with 4 DDAs, though the aeon still wins in tank.
The aeon tanks better, it has higher resists and it does more DPS in 90% of situations. It also has the extremely valuable remote cap transfer range bonus and the option to refit to a huge tank. The nyx has an additional 5 spare fighters (or 2 bombers), an extra midslot, and the comparatively useless shield transfer range bonus. It can't match the aeon's tank in any situation.
The spare midslot on the nyx could be used for damage application, though there is no midslot module that will significantly affect fighter bomber damage. The midslot can be used for cap rechargers, but the aeon can use cap power relays which are substantially better (while still maintaining equal DPS and superior tank).
After these changes we may see a decrease in ship diversity as people switch to Aeons. What if you fit 2 DCUs to the supers. i think the nyx with no dda would outdps the aeon with one dda (with 2 DCUs each), but the difference is pretty small. Although they really need bigger drone bay and fleet hangar if they want to make DCUs viable.
you know that the Wyvern will just outdps bot of them, it only loses three. CN PDA maybe a DCU if you want to fit four damage mods. Therefore you will still have a massive tank, an insane dmg and a passive shield reggen. I can't wait for these changes :-P |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20413
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:06:00 -
[301] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:So, most folks aren't aware of this, but there is a cross-penalty between SDAs and DDAs: since DDAs objectively offer more of a bonus, a decent droneboat aiming for maximum DPS will throw at least 2-4 of those on. Everyone knows this because it's how everything else in the game works. The point you're missing is that sentries always had a way to overcome (and even surpass) that gap to heavies, even when they really shouldn't be able to do so. This change simply ensures that the gap is unsurmountable, which is a good thing for inter-drone balance.
Quote:That's like a DPS loanshark coming up to a sentry pilot, beating the stuffing out of them with a nerfbat, and then saying, "Well, look at all these tactical advantages you've had - guess what? You ALREADY paid for them before (what with having less DPS than heavies), but now you're going to have to pay for them - AGAIN - BY LOSING EVEN MORE DPS!" No, it's like saying GÇ£hey, if you want a specific set of advantages, train a specific set of dronesGÇ¥. Sentries will no longer be the best choice in every way. They still maintain their advantage in immediacy but pay for it by having ever so slightly less damage. This is a phenomenon called balance. It is a good thing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:12:00 -
[302] - Quote
Shilalasar wrote:
1. You have 375 dronebay and another 2 sets in cargohold. Trying to eat through 10+ drones is a waste of time unless have spare bomberwings. 2. so? That makes their tracking better and if someone made it to a place where he can apply dps and you do not you can just abandon and relaunch. 3. If I know nothing then what is the less than nothing you know called?
4. Droneinterface is bad, yes. Welcome to eve. But in exchange you get a weapon that fires when you go afk or are jammed. 5. People have been running sleepersite with drones for ages. You just need to learn how to control AI aggression for PvE. Doesn-¦t matter in PvP at all. 6. All that explosive damage from lasers is really a problem. 7. true, I guess that is on the list for fixing. Like we are getting faction DDAs now.
Maybe you can not compare them 1-1, but overall drones have massive advantages over turrets esp and very little drawbacks.
The no fittingrequirements is just so strong. Turretships need to downgrade their guns often enough to fit a decent tank while droneboats can fit 3 tankmodules or fill the highslots up on neuts etc.
Is it just me or is this the same argument as "lazors are too strong because i choose to ignore cap and resist problems and focus too much on fast infinite ammo switching" ?
Shame. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9355
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:17:00 -
[303] - Quote
The fighters and fighter-bomber changes are quite intriguing. I'm excited to see how fighters and fighter-bombers behave under the new system, especially with the changes to fighter-bombers. They may actually become very powerful again, and all while reducing server load (for a given number of supercarriers). "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:21:00 -
[304] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Bingo. Another huge nerf to drone users , and this is weeks after the destruction in use of the Omni. It's not a huge nerf by any stretch of the imagination, and it comes on the heels of numerous drone buffs that made them silly effective against everything. This change simply puts them back in a more sane place, both in terms of damage output and damage application. Quote:But remember, this is the same guy that brought us the AI change that drove us from heavies to sentries in the first place. No, it's not, for the simple reason that that never actually happened. Heavies were always awful and sentries were always better GÇö the introduction of rat AI did not change this. If you were using heavies before Level1 AI, you were doing it wrong. Oh, and if you lost tons of drones after the AI introduction, you were also doing it wrong. Quote:Plus, I would just love to hear what some gun jockey would say if he had to train a 19 day skill for each ammo type. Oh, they have to train a whole lot more than that to get each racial variation of their size category.
I guess this argument would fly much better if we had a subcap ship with 1100+ paper dps with just drones. |
Johann Rascali
Crunchy Crunchy The Obsidian Front
95
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:29:00 -
[305] - Quote
I'm curious why you're tacking a 100% damage bonus on to supercarriers that may confuse people instead of just increasing the base drone damage. Though I guess that would be more calculator intensive to balance with all the modules and skills suddenly applying. Welcome to our universe where cooldown timers are a mystery, the PLEX menu is just an advertisement, shrapnel bombs deal explosive force, concussion bombs are somehow kinetically penetrative, and who left all these prototype Inferno modules all over the place? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20413
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:29:00 -
[306] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:I guess this argument would fly much better if we had a subcap ship with 1100+ paper dps with just drones. If I were to guess, that would probably be the thing: with additions such as faction DDAs being made, we'd start seeing ships doing exactly that and also being able to deliver a couple hundred more with regular guns on top. So the top end would have to be toned down a bit to not make all the 125mb bandwidth ships (including the Ishtar) downright silly.
So in essence, to allow room for further general buffs, the baseline has to be adjusted a bit downwards to ensure that the end result remains somewhat sane.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
365
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:38:00 -
[307] - Quote
April fools joke right? You guys are actually fixing SOV for the summer expansion - something that desperately needs revision. |
DoToo Foo
Weaponised FuGu
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:48:00 -
[308] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:... In practice, damage with T2 Gardes and Bouncers will be going down a bit (but with Bouncers gaining a lot of tracking and Gardes gaining a fair amount of falloff) while damage with T2 Curators and Wardens goes up a bit.
So, a 7% nerf to maximum paper Gardes II DPS is just 'a bit'. A large coalition in particular has been calling for nerfs to sentry drone fleets for a while and they should be pleased (even if I am not).
I would prefer a nerf to be called what it is. Tracking will offset some of this (blessed sleeper cruisers begone), but hiding this kind of change breeds suspicion.
This is eve, maybe there is a saturation of suspicion, and nothing devs do can reduce it. I will be looking out for nerf bats around every seemingly positive dev blog.
|
seth Hendar
I love you miners
508
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:49:00 -
[309] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Grarr Dexx wrote:So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec? The opportunities for confusion about the crimewarch implications of actions (the pilot who assisted the drones would lose sec status and get gate guns without any direct action on their part) means this is not something we plan to change. Drone assist will continue to be a mechanic that is somewhat limited in empire space, along with other mechanics such as bombs and bubbles. will you stop pooping on low sec one day? stop the hate on lowsec NOW, we already have enought crippling issues, no need to add some more.....
this summer updates seems like a giant "f** you lowsec"...again....
also, i see you increase the volume of fighters and fighters bombers, and reduce the # that a super can deploy, wich make sense.
what about carriers? with fighters twice as big, i see issues |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
600
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 08:58:00 -
[310] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:Be aware of the side effect this is going to have on new players wanting to fly the Algos. To reach its full potential you will need to train both light and medium drones. This previously was done with one skill but now will require two. Same thing goes for the Vexor. In both cases you will need to train for three weapon system to fully use the ship. This is not new player friendly.
Actually, it is. Drones will have more damage by default thanks do Interfacing nerf, meaning a new player will be able to push out more damage with lower overall skill. It'll still take time to skill up to full potential, but it won't be crippling like it is today. |
|
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
185
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:05:00 -
[311] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:Be aware of the side effect this is going to have on new players wanting to fly the Algos. To reach its full potential you will need to train both light and medium drones. This previously was done with one skill but now will require two. Same thing goes for the Vexor. In both cases you will need to train for three weapon system to fully use the ship. This is not new player friendly. Actually, it is. Drones will have more damage by default thanks do Interfacing nerf, meaning a new player will be able to push out more damage with lower overall skill. It'll still take time to skill up to full potential, but it won't be crippling like it is today.
Both drone interfacing and large turret skill are rank 5, so it might be annoying but definitely not crippling, cruise missiles are also rank 5 skill. If drones are supposed to be a main weapon system there's nothing crippling about current drone interfacing V.
As it is it actually takes less to learn drone skills then it takes to train T2 BS turrets or missiles, that your skill training plan doesn't fit with drone skills is a different matter. |
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
260
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:06:00 -
[312] - Quote
I was afraid that a bunch of new skills were going to be added which would have been awful since drones are the only thing that uses the Memory/Perception combo. When I first started Eve I remapped to M/P using a bonus remap (after getting my core skills done) to train about 10m SP in drones (which is good enough for almost all 5s not counting carrier skills) after spending the start of that year training charisma skills with the idea of not having to ever revisit them. Thank you for doing the split (much like the Destroyers and Battlecruisers and not like the salvage drone skill which I don't think I will ever train up to 5) on this one since I don't think I will go back to that particular configuration. New skills (non-split) for I/M or P/W maps are okay though since I will probably alternate between them every year from here on out. |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
387
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:14:00 -
[313] - Quote
Two step wrote:Sounds pretty good to me. I wish you guys used this rebalance as a time to adjust fighter size (and carrier drone bay size to match), so that carriers cannot carry as many extra drones. Make them 600m3 if you are worried about subcaps being able to carry them, or better yet, make them 300m3. please this ^
W-Space Realtor |
Cardano Firesnake
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
117
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:15:00 -
[314] - Quote
Balancing is excelent. The Fighters and The Bombers will aslo need a speed boost on approach speed.... |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2062
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:33:00 -
[315] - Quote
I think it'd be nice if battleships got a boost in drone bay size. Seems rather silly a cruiser like the Stratios has around 400 m3 while the Megathron has 75. I think all battleships should be able to hold a full flight of each drone size. Bandwidth should be the limiting factor for them imo. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum
227
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:33:00 -
[316] - Quote
Phacops Alabel wrote:This all looks good. Is there any chance of you guys looking at the drone UI. Some buttons on the HUD that would launch, recall, engage etc drones would be awesome.
Yeah, that would be really nice.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
|
Camper101
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
960
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:41:00 -
[317] - Quote
This better not be April's fools, Fozzie.
I DARE YOU. I DOUBLE DARE YOU, FOZZIE!
2013.03.01 13:30:58 notify For participating in the General Discussion Forum Section your trustworthiness has been adjusted by -2.5000.
My name is Hans. The "L" stands for danger. |
Xermish
Good Looking Adventurers
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 09:43:00 -
[318] - Quote
I like alot of the blog/changes. Even the drone change for supers, only how will doubling the fighter m3 effect basic carriers. Fighters are the 'main' platform of dps for carriers yet they are already underused (if not at all). Double their size forcing basic carriers to hold less/carry few basic drones will only encourage them to carry sentries (yet again). I'm not going to complain about current mechanics/fleet doctrines, just more curious on when carries will get a pass and have fighters be more encouraged. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
157
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:25:00 -
[319] - Quote
I love how the primary drone skills get split up like with the ship tiers, and the secondary drone skills be more applied to the drone group (fighters will see a comeback)
The rebalance of "drone ship" attributes across the different drones is very nice, tech 2 which is player made stays the most important (Drone Interfacing skill wil still be trained to lvl5 )
Question: did CCP had to redo the drone code ? and will there be a new drone UI soon (not Gäó) ? Eve rule no.1: The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
|
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
191
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:27:00 -
[320] - Quote
Sounds good overall. Finally Amarr/Caldari drones will be useful! Any chance of some tweaks to drones so they are less prone to overshooting moving targets and then missing all the time? |
|
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Awakened.
1457
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:34:00 -
[321] - Quote
When is the drone interface (UI) going to redesigned. Controlling drones in eve is a horrible and clunky experience and there are some relatively small tweaks that could be made that would improve the interface a lot. +1 |
killerlman
Guardians of Eden Northern Army.
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:35:00 -
[322] - Quote
CCP, plx boost proteuses drone bandwidth in his drone synthesis subsystem! |
LakeEnd
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
67
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:42:00 -
[323] - Quote
Wyvern already had the best tank available, now it will also have most DPS (at the expense of least tank).
Boost Amarr! |
Pesadel0
the muppets DARKNESS.
84
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 10:53:00 -
[324] - Quote
LakeEnd wrote:Wyvern already had the best tank available, now it will also have most DPS (at the expense of least tank).
Boost Amarr!
This now we just need a damage bonus on the Hel and shield implants. |
Katrina Bekers
Rim Collection RC Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
198
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:07:00 -
[325] - Quote
Mixed feelings.
The rebalance is probably something long due - at least by the whine river we've seen the past year. Ok, so be it. Another popular combination will rise and will be nerfed later on. NBD.
Still, a bit sad that EVE: Sources boasts Gallente as the race built on drones, master of automatic weapon system, culprit of the sentient rogue drone plague, so advanced in drone tech that their ships require less crew because the ship itself can think and react on its own...
...And now the Nyx is being treated like this, instead of being the unquestionable, undisputed, lore-propped undestructible killing machine of old, only because it's the popular choice for drone boats.
Do you pick anything else than Caldari for serious missiles or long range hybrids platforms? Do you pick anything else than Minmatar for nimble projectile ships? Do you pick anything else than Amarr for bricky lasers vessels?
Yet we'd pick Archons and Aeons over Thanatoi and Nyxen now...
I'm a bit perplexed. In the min/maxing game, of course nobody gives a flying fack, but still... << THE RABBLE BRIGADE >> |
seller1122
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:14:00 -
[326] - Quote
I'm sure its must have been mentioned else where in the thread but i do not believe this cause caldari or amarr drones to be used more.
The issue is the gall are best for dps and the mintar are best for speed, there is never really a situation where you'd need to go for a mid-ground solution.
Ideally you would want to make the ammar drones identical to the mintar ones but using em instead of explosive and you would want to be make the caldari ones identical to the gall except kinetic. That way you would have a true choice of damage types to be dealing based upon your situation.
|
Bryperium
RAZOR Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:14:00 -
[327] - Quote
As many people have pointed out; please reconsider your changes to the supercarriers.
We asked you to make them all viable, not buff the wyvern to be the clear top dog and leave the nyx (and aeon to a lesser extent) in the dirt - |
Kenhi sama
Project Stealth Squad The Initiative.
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:25:00 -
[328] - Quote
What about mining-drones? They are effected by drone interfacing too, so is this change a nerf to mining drones, or are they change according to this? |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2063
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:29:00 -
[329] - Quote
seller1122 wrote:I'm sure its must have been mentioned else where in the thread but i do not believe this cause caldari or amarr drones to be used more.
The issue is the gall are best for dps and the mintar are best for speed, there is never really a situation where you'd need to go for a mid-ground solution.
Ideally you would want to make the ammar drones identical to the mintar ones but using em instead of explosive and you would want to be make the caldari ones identical to the gall except kinetic. That way you would have a true choice of damage types to be dealing based upon your situation.
This is pretty true. Although unless you have the ability to carry multiple types of drones (which we used to be able to do) thermals going to be the preferred option over kinetic.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis CALSF
426
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:29:00 -
[330] - Quote
I'll add my voice to the request for meta 1-4 drone modules. And maybe an adjustment in the fitting requirements of the T1 DDA as versus the T2 DDA - unless meta DDA's are added with lower CPU requirements, or faction DDA's also have lower CPU requirements. "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt |
|
Shovi Chen-Shi
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:30:00 -
[331] - Quote
Since you are doing this, can you also make drones not go full ****** and attack groups of NPCs that aren't shooting or doing anything to me? |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9560
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:34:00 -
[332] - Quote
Good morning everyone.
Since it's April 2nd I want to go ahead and confirm once and for all that our balance posts and blog yesterday were 100% legit. We had a little fun subverting expectations and making honest announcements on April 1st.
To answer a couple of questions and issues raised so far:
- I love you too Dinsdale, never change.
- We'll be increasing the mining yield of all mining drones by 33% to compensate for the change to Drone Interfacing. This means that at max skills mining drones will have identical yield to pre-patch and at lower skills they will be improved. Thanks to CSM member Mike Azariah for reminding me.
- There's currently a display bug that makes the Drone Navigation computer say that it adds newtons of force. It actually increases drone MWD top speed by a percentage, +30% for T2.
- Grath if you think this change nerfs the speed at which supercarriers reinforce sov structures, you're doing it wrong.
- I'm seeing a fair bit of confusion about the details of the Sentry changes. I left the nitty gritty details out of the text section of the blog since they don't lend themselves to easy summaries and the actual numbers were in the spreadsheet, but I'll go over the end results of the changes to T1 and T2 sentries here so people can see the whole picture. These numbers assume max skills:
Curator I - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +18.15% damage Warden I - +40% falloff, +12% damage Garde I - +50% falloff, +2% damage Bouncer I - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, +2.86% damage
Curator II - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +8.31% damage Warden II - +40% falloff, +2.67% damage Garde II - +50% falloff, -6.5% damage Bouncer II - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, -5.71% damage
- We understand the frustrations expressed by some about how these changes do not address the Drone UI, AI and/or Ewar Drones. These are important issues, but they require a different set of resources to solve and we are not going to hold back meaningful positive changes to wait until we can fix everything at once.
- We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. it is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart.
Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
LakeEnd
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
67
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:43:00 -
[333] - Quote
IMO its great changes overall, but you really need to look into the Wyvern becoming BY FAR the best super carrier now. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
587
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:44:00 -
[334] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart. [/list]
caldari drones already are competitive, I don't know where you're getting this frmo. and you really should do everything I suggest re: drones, because I am right. |
Barbaydos
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
13
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:46:00 -
[335] - Quote
so basically if we lose one fb now its 1/20 of our dps gone, after the changes it will be 1/10 meaning that the fb are going to be relentlessly bombed when they are deployed even more so then they are now just to eliminate their dps.
the nyx and hel have drone bays of 175,000m3 and the aeon and wyvern have 150,000m3 each
lets say that with the changes we still want to field a full flight of 10 fb which will take up 100,000m3 lets also say we want to protect ourselves as supers with fighters. if we put 10 in that takes up 50,000m3.
this leaves the aeon and wyvern with no space left for any additional drones and the nyx and hel with an additional 25,000m3, enough for 2 fb and 1 fighter.
now the fighter bombers are going to die, its a fact, with a buff to their hp it may take a bit longer but they are still going to die. with the volume changes the aeon and wyvern are going to quickly run out of bombers relegating them to being repair platforms or just doing fighter dps. not very super anymore
the volume of the fighter bombers needs to be reduced so we can actually carry more then 1 or 2 spares in the drone bay otherwise super carriers fighter bombers will just be killed off and they wont actually be able to apply damage |
Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions Free 2 Play
210
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:47:00 -
[336] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart.
Personally i'd like them to be a bit more diverse, rather than being some "inbetween the other two races" thingie.
3rdPartyEve.net - your catalogue for 3rd party applications |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
509
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:48:00 -
[337] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Good morning everyone. Since it's April 2nd I want to go ahead and confirm once and for all that our balance posts and blog yesterday were 100% legit. We had a little fun subverting expectations and making honest announcements on April 1st. To answer a couple of questions and issues raised so far: - I love you too Dinsdale, never change.
- We'll be increasing the mining yield of all mining drones by 33% to compensate for the change to Drone Interfacing. This means that at max skills mining drones will have identical yield to pre-patch and at lower skills they will be improved. Thanks to CSM member Mike Azariah for reminding me.
- There's currently a display bug that makes the Drone Navigation computer say that it adds newtons of force. It actually increases drone MWD top speed by a percentage, +30% for T2.
- Grath if you think this change nerfs the speed at which supercarriers reinforce sov structures, you're doing it wrong.
- I'm seeing a fair bit of confusion about the details of the Sentry changes. I left the nitty gritty details out of the text section of the blog since they don't lend themselves to easy summaries and the actual numbers were in the spreadsheet, but I'll go over the end results of the changes to T1 and T2 sentries here so people can see the whole picture. These numbers assume max skills:
Curator I - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +18.15% damage Warden I - +40% falloff, +12% damage Garde I - +50% falloff, +2% damage Bouncer I - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, +2.86% damage
Curator II - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +8.31% damage Warden II - +40% falloff, +2.67% damage Garde II - +50% falloff, -6.5% damage Bouncer II - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, -5.71% damage
- We understand the frustrations expressed by some about how these changes do not address the Drone UI, AI and/or Ewar Drones. These are important issues, but they require a different set of resources to solve and we are not going to hold back meaningful positive changes to wait until we can fix everything at once.
- We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. it is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart.
fix the damn drone assist to pirate in low, fuckin tired to be nerfed just because we live in the most challenging area after WH fix the omnis, they are STILL broken fix the drone UI, it is still broken (watchlist not working, drone exiting with random amount of shield, pain to use) fix the drone AI, it is still broken (still somehow forget orders sometimes, randomly aggro NPC even with the correct settings, randomly shoot at sentry gun even when issued an order to actually attack a specific tgt, just because the sentry is the biggest incoming dps....) rethink your change about amarr and caldari drone, they won't be used even after that, you choose either speed or DPS, you don't even consider the rest, especially since the TH and explo are the main damage you want to deal anyway
once this is covered, then sure, rebalance the thing..... |
Noroswen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:51:00 -
[338] - Quote
So is there going to be any change to the availability of Intergrated and Augmented drones then? |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
365
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:54:00 -
[339] - Quote
Barbaydos wrote:so basically if we lose one fb now its 1/20 of our dps gone, after the changes it will be 1/10 meaning that the fb are going to be relentlessly bombed when they are deployed even more so then they are now just to eliminate their dps.
the nyx and hel have drone bays of 175,000m3 and the aeon and wyvern have 150,000m3 each
lets say that with the changes we still want to field a full flight of 10 fb which will take up 100,000m3 lets also say we want to protect ourselves as supers with fighters. if we put 10 in that takes up 50,000m3.
this leaves the aeon and wyvern with no space left for any additional drones and the nyx and hel with an additional 25,000m3, enough for 2 fb and 1 fighter.
now the fighter bombers are going to die, its a fact, with a buff to their hp it may take a bit longer but they are still going to die. with the volume changes the aeon and wyvern are going to quickly run out of bombers relegating them to being repair platforms or just doing fighter dps. not very super anymore
the volume of the fighter bombers needs to be reduced so we can actually carry more then 1 or 2 spares in the drone bay otherwise super carriers fighter bombers will just be killed off and they wont actually be able to apply damage
Sounds like you'll need subcap support because the iwin butan is gone. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:56:00 -
[340] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Barton Breau wrote:I guess this argument would fly much better if we had a subcap ship with 1100+ paper dps with just drones. If I were to guess, that would probably be the thing: with additions such as faction DDAs being made, we'd start seeing ships doing exactly that and also being able to deliver a couple hundred more with regular guns on top. So the top end would have to be toned down a bit to not make all the 125mb bandwidth ships (including the Ishtar) downright silly. So in essence, to allow room for further general buffs, the baseline has to be adjusted a bit downwards to ensure that the end result remains somewhat sane.
You seem to be assuming the hypothetical faction DDAs will be somehow stronger than officer ones (930dps max)...
Moreover, why mention gun dps at all, dont most ships have a drone bay?
|
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Onotole Vassermanov
The Black Company G.C. Southern Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:56:00 -
[341] - Quote
1. You adjust drones to drones, without compare efficiency with turrets or launcher platforms. Look into DPS of clear turret/launcher platform, and look at drones. Drone ship have to be fasten to Sentries or risk miss them. Lower DPS as well. Assist is only 1 reason to use drone boats. Clear Drone platform solo make less DPS than turret/launcher based ships and still suffer of fasten sentries. Also drone can be killed and DPS goes even lower.
3. As drones ARE controlling by boat, make drones affected by e-war applied to boat(dampers, disruptors etc.). If boat e-attacked - effects SHOULD be applied to drones launched from this boat as well. Not WEB, as it affect physical item itself.
2. No Drone based Marauder. Give us a Drone-based Marauder to balance PVE side of Powerful SOLO drone boat.
3. Make a "Drone Control Unit" for drone based subcapital boats. Split/rename actual for "Capital Drone Control Unit". Utility or more dps balance, as for turret ships for close range PVP.
4. "Drone control range" - extra skill that NOT compared with any other skill in Gunnery/launcher? Still needed high power modules/rigs just for distance of usage. Remove this skill and make a drone control range based on targeting range, as per gunnery platform, optimal/falloff still comparable with gunnery and will not act on PVP side of EVE. Otherwise drones needs more units, more skills and still make less damage on less distance. Not balanced at all. Also drone link augmentor needs extra slots, that could be used for utility units or guns. And that make drone platform suffering in compare with turret/launcher.
Something like that. |
Bryperium
RAZOR Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:56:00 -
[342] - Quote
Consider adding a mid slot drone damage mod to maintain the armor/shield balance (though really this should be done for all weapon systems)
Also low slot drone tracking enhancer? - |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
587
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 11:58:00 -
[343] - Quote
Bryperium wrote: Also low slot drone tracking enhancer?
did you read the blog |
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Awakened.
180
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:07:00 -
[344] - Quote
What about adding the ability to recall Sentry drones from range? Currently Sentries are unpractical when roaming, and being able to recall them from range makes a few tactics a lot easier to manage. Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate... |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1269
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:10:00 -
[345] - Quote
Noroswen wrote:So is there going to be any change to the availability of Intergrated and Augmented drones then?
there is probably a bajillion unused BPCs in peoples hangars + all those sites in the drone regions nobody ever does because they are not worth it. GRRR Goons |
Trajan Al'Thor
Sanshaa True Carebers
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:12:00 -
[346] - Quote
Any chance of getting Shadow Fighter Bombers from the Sansha Loyalty Point Store or as drops more frequently? As they currently are, they are far to expensive to be of any use to anyone.
Plus they look awesome. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1149
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:13:00 -
[347] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Since it's April 2nd I want to go ahead and confirm once and for all that our balance posts and blog yesterday were 100% legit. We had a little fun subverting expectations and making honest announcements on April 1st.
Best. CCP. Prank. Ever. Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Vaffel Junior
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
109
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:19:00 -
[348] - Quote
Death to all supers is still on I see...
Keep it comming |
Tal'rakken
Kenshin. Northern Coalition.
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:23:00 -
[349] - Quote
So in regards to Fighter Bombers.
Will the Omnidirectional Tracking Links effect their ability to hit their targets and their range or are they still considered to be shooting missiles?? |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
458
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:26:00 -
[350] - Quote
Tal'rakken wrote:So in regards to Fighter Bombers.
Will the Omnidirectional Tracking Links effect their ability to hit their targets and their range or are they still considered to be shooting missiles??
they're still considered using missiles and therefore use a missile range and damage formula of sorts that do not have falloff and tracking etc...
so onmis wont have any effect on them, however DDAs and nav computers i will still work. |
|
Rockstede
Twenty Questions Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:31:00 -
[351] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Jeinvay Kunsu wrote:WHY would you reduce the super-carrier drone amounts from 20 to 10, when the carriers, which are a hull class BELOW supers, can field 15? I wouldn't be so baffled by the supercarrier drone because any supercarrier pilot prefers one fb with double the hp and damage to two fbs with normal hp and damage the reason why is that bombers love bombing fighter-bombers and with the double hp fb it is much harder to bomb away all your dps basically use your noggin instead of your feels when it comes to numbers
Also worth pointing out that actually the Carrier can't field 15 fighters without 5 drone control units which requires advanced drone control 5, which in total is 50+ days training.
Both carriers will now deploy the same amount which if it significantly helps the server stability I say is a good thing.
|
Captn Hammer
Capital Industries Research And Development Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:42:00 -
[352] - Quote
I understand how Omnis (and their upcoming low-slot tracking enhancer-ish counterpart) won't impact Fighter Bombers, because those don't function like turrets anyway, but how about creating a mod for them that does boost their damage application? I know missiles only have rigs to impact that..
Gardes definitely need the falloff boost, thrilled about the medium/heavy drone speed changes. Basically the whole thing is sorta a dream come true in many respects. Fighters will be viable in many more situations.
My main concern is the clear advantage this gives Shield Super Carriers. I know the same principal applies to many other ships, as long as there are no mid-slot damage mods, but this rebalanced, well, doesn't seem very balanced, in that regard.
You guys (CCP Fozzie/Rise)are doing an awesome job, loved to see such a comprehensive overall of drone balance. |
stoicfaux
4355
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:45:00 -
[353] - Quote
Can we haz a Drone Micro Jump Launcher? A module that jumps (teleports) all drones orbiting your ship X distance forward or towards a specific target? Apply that DPS sooner rather than later.
Or sentry drones with a MJD. Given the long range that Wardens have, it would be peachy if you could jump them 60km away from your ship (and then back again for pickup.) The enemy would then have to decide whether to stay at the long range of your sentry drones or the long range of your railguns (i.e. low range == low transversal.)
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Tal'rakken
Kenshin. Northern Coalition.
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:48:00 -
[354] - Quote
Rockstede wrote:Weaselior wrote:Jeinvay Kunsu wrote:WHY would you reduce the super-carrier drone amounts from 20 to 10, when the carriers, which are a hull class BELOW supers, can field 15? I wouldn't be so baffled by the supercarrier drone because any supercarrier pilot prefers one fb with double the hp and damage to two fbs with normal hp and damage the reason why is that bombers love bombing fighter-bombers and with the double hp fb it is much harder to bomb away all your dps basically use your noggin instead of your feels when it comes to numbers Also worth pointing out that actually the Carrier can't field 15 fighters without 5 drone control units which requires advanced drone control 5, which in total is 50+ days training. Both carriers will now deploy the same amount which if it significantly helps the server stability I say is a good thing.
only annoying thing for supers is the slight damage nerf to fighter bombers(and yes i know damage potential is higher)
the hp buff will be nice and each drone control unit will now add the equivalent of 2 drones for the super now so not all bad. |
Degalo
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:52:00 -
[355] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Grath if you think this change nerfs the speed at which supercarriers reinforce sov structures, you're doing it wrong.
Thanks for reaffirming that you don't play this game, at all.
1. You are nerfing supercarrier damage 30% from current levels.
2. Players can choose to compensate by fitting 2 damage mods, at the expense of 2 tank mods, so either more supers are needed to keep the same level of damage on a sov structure, or even more risk on the players' parts.
3. FBs are doubling in size while maintaining the same size drone bay. Spare FBs? CCP says, NOPE.
So now, when FBs get bombed, the super loses 10% of it's DPS without a means to replace it - with such a huge impact on dps, FBs will be getting bombed more often.
We get it, you hate drones and supercarriers, but don't you say we are doing it wrong when you handed us this steaming pile of **** nerf - because you have no understanding of what any of these FB changes actually mean.
|
Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:56:00 -
[356] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Good morning everyone. Since it's April 2nd I want to go ahead and confirm once and for all that our balance posts and blog yesterday were 100% legit. We had a little fun subverting expectations and making honest announcements on April 1st. To answer a couple of questions and issues raised so far:
Can you address the question of access to racial T2 sentries for those with Sentry Drone Interfacing trained to V. As it stands, those with that skill will lose access to existing weapons when the requirement for racial skills is implemented. Will those pilots receive the minimum level of racial skill to compensate?
|
Watarigarasu Kawamura
Independent Cats Association
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:04:00 -
[357] - Quote
I'm somewhat sad about this patch, in many areas.
The main one being the supers getting nerfed. In my mind, Super capitals are the endgame content, and SHOULD be somewhat overpowered to an extent. Afterall, they wouldn't be supers if they weren't in my view. :P
Personally, I love the idea of super capitals that Sh*t nightmares and actually scare people when they appear on grid, rather than just: "Meh, its another ship to kill" :P -Maybe I'm just a little masochistic in this regard...
Add to that the love i have of carriers/supercarriers having swarms of drones... And a point mentioned earlier:
And the other thing that I'm a little sad about is the changes to drone interfacing V... In my view, seeing as its a pre-requisite for carriers, I really think the 20% suits it. For me, it also justifies the long train time, and makes skilling up for carriers more rewarding. (while 10% is still probably worth the train time, for me, it still lacks the same incentive as a mighty 20%)
However, maybe I'm just different, in thinking that the best part about EVE compared to other games, is that you have to put time in to get something out. i.e. you have to train longer skills to yield better results... :P compared to some other MMOs that just require you to have money to dump into it. (ignoring buying characters) ^^ The idea of a game that isn't totally new player friendly, and is a challenge is what brought me to eve in the first place - a non forgiving game where you aren't guaranteed to see the endgame content :)
Either way, I'll be interested to see what happens with future balances :) |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2292
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:14:00 -
[358] - Quote
CCP Fozzie, will we be getting to see drone implants finally? -á --á |
Danni Bellenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:17:00 -
[359] - Quote
I like these changes, my only concern is the use of drone control units on supercarriers. With the 100% bonus to fighter damage, this will effectively give 2 fighter bombers per drone control unit, resulting in potentially double the DPS of a supercarrier without, and even more with drone damage amps. That's dread level DPS on a super.
|
XBruin
Black Horse Corporation B4D W0LF INDUSTRIES
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:24:00 -
[360] - Quote
CCP Fozzie: please stop avoiding the question!
Clearly this is a buff to Wyverns and a nerf to Armor Supercaps, the Nyx especially.
The Wyvern will now have the best tank as well as the best DPS due to lowslot availability.
Please clarify if this was a conscious decision, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?
I'm sure many of us would appreciate some transparency here... |
|
Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:25:00 -
[361] - Quote
Honestly I haven't read all 18 pages so I hope I am not repeating someone.
The drones adjustments are underwhelming. They are good, and they do rebalance things, but they seem to be just a matter of someone going in and tweaking numbers. This is regarding the drones themselves, as I really have no problems with the skill changes and ship changes mentioned. However, the big problem with the drones in my view has been that nobody uses anything but Gallente or Minmatar drones (excepting sentries - I am talking about the regular combat drones). The basic issue is really that if a player (we're generally talking PvP) wants to hit hard, he uses Gallente (Hammerhead or Ogre) and if he wants to hit fast, he uses Minmatar (Warrior), and that's it. Making the Amarr into slightly less fast Warriors and Caldari into slightly less hard Hammerheads and Ogres isn't going to convince anyone to use them. Also, just tweaking some number values is not giving players 'increased variety of options' as the devs seem to want. Overall, this seems like the expansion is a minimal effort, minimal thought tweaking process that is more deserving of a patch than an expansion. I let the underwhelming nature of Rubicon go as I assumed you were writing back end code for the impressive additions on the horizon that we hear tell rumors of (player built gates, new galaxies, etc.). But are we going to keep having expansions like this forever?
If you want to provide a truly expansion worthy drone revamp, how about actually changing the character and flavor of drones and fixing major problems? When was the last time anybody ever used a Stasis Webifier drone? Nobody knows, do they. Because they are worthless. Fix them or remove them and replace them with another kind of drone. The only EWAR drone worth anything is the ECM drone.
I suggest for the combat drones that you really introduce unique characteristics for the drones. Caldari are supposed to be the masters of range. Give the Caldari drones, and Caldari drones only, an innate bonus to drone control range. Therefore pilots can use them in long range fits with fewer Drone Link Augmentors. Yeah, they don't get there fast like the Warriors, which would increase their value more for long range PvE than for sniper PvP, but such has always been the fate of the Caldari - PvE masters, PvP challenged.
The Amarr are supposed to be Eve's second race of drone masters. Have their drones be the only drones in the game that do two damage types: EM and thermal. This would make the drones into a truly generalist philosophy. They travel the field quickly, and they do well against a variety of targets, just underwhelming damage.
I could talk more about ideas for better and different EWAR drones, but the post would get too long. While I would like comment about the ideas about drone control range and multiple damage type drones, the major point of my post is to express dismay that the drone revamp seems to be a numbers tweak and not a real significant effort at meeting the goals of 'making all races equally appealing' or 'giving players interesting options in drone choice.'
I'm curious to hear what you all think. |
Rena Monachica
Capital Hot Rods
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:27:00 -
[362] - Quote
So what about the new skill requirements for T2 Sentrys?
also, the stats for the new drone modules would be nice to know
I-¦m also a bit disappointed with the changes for the heavy drones .. only a tad more speed? They will still be dead meat in pve |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
114
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:29:00 -
[363] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Looking forward to all your feedback. CCP Rise and I have been working hard on these changes and we think they'll be great for the drone ecosystem as a whole.
:Edit:
I'm seeing a fair bit of confusion about the details of the Sentry changes. I left the nitty gritty details out of the text section of the blog since they don't lend themselves to easy summaries and the actual numbers were in the spreadsheet, but I'll go over the end results of the changes to T1 and T2 sentries here so people can see the whole picture. These numbers assume max skills:
Curator I - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +18.15% damage Warden I - +40% falloff, +12% damage Garde I - +50% falloff, +2% damage Bouncer I - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, +2.86% damage
Curator II - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +8.31% damage Warden II - +40% falloff, +2.67% damage Garde II - +50% falloff, -6.5% damage Bouncer II - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, -5.71% damage
interesting but your missing a WHOLE bunch of other drones, how about sorting out the damn EW drones etc rather than "JUST" damage dealing drones? EW among the other variants of drones are in DIRE need of some TLC.
|
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
13
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:30:00 -
[364] - Quote
Heavy drone sig radius really needs to be reduced to make them viable again.
Also, what about T2 resists for T2 drones? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
587
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:32:00 -
[365] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Heavy drone sig radius really needs to be reduced to make them viable again.
Also, what about T2 resists for T2 drones?
more like what about regenerating drone armour/hull while in the dronebay, as well as visible hp of drones in dronebay |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
114
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:35:00 -
[366] - Quote
Paynus Maiassus wrote: The Amarr are supposed to be Eve's second race of drone masters. Have their drones be the only drones in the game that do two damage types: EM and thermal. .
IIRC this is what the "Improved" and "Augmented" drones do, split damage types, iirc the gall versions do therm/explo? cant remember the secondary damage bonus on them atm off the top of my head
Paynus Maiassus wrote: I could talk more about ideas for better and different EWAR drones, but the post would get too long. While I would like comment about the ideas about drone control range and multiple damage type drones, the major point of my post is to express dismay that the drone revamp seems to be a numbers tweak and not a real significant effort at meeting the goals of 'making all races equally appealing' or 'giving players interesting options in drone choice.
Agree with you, I mean when was the last time you saw someone use nos drones? TD drones? etc |
Elequent-Lady Dolorous
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:36:00 -
[367] - Quote
XBruin wrote:CCP Fozzie: please stop avoiding the question!
Clearly this is a buff to Wyverns and a nerf to Armor Supercaps, the Nyx especially.
The Wyvern will now have the best tank as well as the best DPS due to lowslot availability.
Please clarify if this was a conscious decision, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?
I'm sure many of us would appreciate some transparency here...
QFT
Armor and shield were at long last close to balance, this will ruin it..
Could we have a midslot mod that only boosts bomber damage, and stacks with DDA's? Yes, the "e" was intentional.-á |
Todd Jaeger
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:38:00 -
[368] - Quote
XBruin wrote:CCP Fozzie: please stop avoiding the question!
Clearly this is a buff to Wyverns and a nerf to Armor Supercaps, the Nyx especially.
The Wyvern will now have the best tank as well as the best DPS due to lowslot availability.
Please clarify if this was a conscious decision, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?
I'm sure many of us would appreciate some transparency here...
Armor will still have the best tank, mostly due to HG Slaves and 1008 implants. Wyverns and Hels are a joke currently - if anything this would give them a good reason to exist since they can get a higher damage without sacrificing the little tank they have.
The concern that people have raised is that Nyx/Aeon will just go gank fit, and refit tank if they get primaried is actually a hint that combat refitting is the issue. |
mkint
1127
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:39:00 -
[369] - Quote
Peter Powers wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart.
Personally i'd like them to be a bit more diverse, rather than being some "inbetween the other two races" thingie. Indeed. There needs to be some hard line where "the right drone for the right job" applies. The proposed change doesn't offer anything. It's still Minmatar fast, Gallente strong, Amarr and Caldari mediocre at everything.
I do like the idea proposed earlier about 2 factions strong, 2 factions fast because then at least there's a 50/50 choice, though it would probably still leave amarr as pretty pointless (except in PVE versus rogue drones, in which I've found them surprisingly effective.)
Maybe if each drone had a slight positive secondary affect on the ship launching them, equivalent to their race's anti-ewar? So having a full rack of Gallente drones would give you something like 1/5th of a sebo, amarr 1/5th TC, caldari 1/5th ECCM, minmatar 1/5th istab(or something.)
Then there would be two factors driving a decision towards each drone. Maybe getting extra tracking/range on your guns would make it worth having mediocre DPS of an undesirable damage type to make Amarr drones attractive. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
MissBehaving
Meat 2 Veg League 0f Grumpy 0ld Farts
20
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:43:00 -
[370] - Quote
Am I the only selfish A-Hole who thinks that the newbs should have to suffer training this crap to V like most of us did years ago? Dealing with less dps/tracking and etc was the driving force for most of us to train these skills in the first place. It seems like the WoWification :P of the game is getting worse. A 17 day train should yeild a 20% performance increase over the guy who was to lazy to train anything past 4. Just some thoughts of a bitter vet lol :P |
|
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:43:00 -
[371] - Quote
Rena Monachica wrote:So what about the new skill requirements for T2 Sentrys?
Would like to ask this also, from the quote:
"we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries."
It looks like this will be a rare instance of someone *not* being able to use a $THING that they were able to use prior to a skill training change. |
Elequent-Lady Dolorous
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:43:00 -
[372] - Quote
Todd Jaeger wrote:XBruin wrote:CCP Fozzie: please stop avoiding the question!
Clearly this is a buff to Wyverns and a nerf to Armor Supercaps, the Nyx especially.
The Wyvern will now have the best tank as well as the best DPS due to lowslot availability.
Please clarify if this was a conscious decision, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?
I'm sure many of us would appreciate some transparency here... Armor will still have the best tank, mostly due to HG Slaves and 1008 implants. Wyverns and Hels are a joke currently - if anything this would give them a good reason to exist since they can get a higher damage without sacrificing the little tank they have. The concern that people have raised is that Nyx/Aeon will just go gank fit, and refit tank if they get primaried is actually a hint that combat refitting is the issue.
Run the numbers again, remember shield tankers have genolution implants now.
The only advantage armor will have post patch is a bit of cap sustainability
Yes, the "e" was intentional.-á |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5566
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:46:00 -
[373] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Players: Man your sov system sucks and is super boring you should fix it
CCP: Sure guys we're working on it!
*Nerfs the tool used to make that job less lifesucking*
Swear to god, this company would throw a drowning man a sack of bricks. Possibly... depending on who the drowning man was.... To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
tsiliadora
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:47:00 -
[374] - Quote
XBruin wrote:CCP Fozzie: please stop avoiding the question!
Clearly this is a buff to Wyverns and a nerf to Armor Supercaps, the Nyx especially.
The Wyvern will now have the best tank as well as the best DPS due to lowslot availability.
Please clarify if this was a conscious decision, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?
I'm sure many of us would appreciate some transparency here...
CCP Fozzie, answer that
plus the huge market impact that will cause
|
seth Hendar
I love you miners
509
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:47:00 -
[375] - Quote
Degalo wrote:but don't you say we are doing it wrong when you handed us this steaming pile of **** nerf - because you have no understanding of what any of these FB changes actually mean.
this, unfortunately, is pretty much the only constant thing when it comes to CCP updating the game... |
Abulurd Boniface
The Scope Gallente Federation
101
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:55:00 -
[376] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Good morning everyone. Since it's April 2nd I want to go ahead and confirm once and for all that our balance posts and blog yesterday were 100% legit. We had a little fun subverting expectations and making honest announcements on April 1st. To answer a couple of questions and issues raised so far: [/list]
How could one possibly not love a developer community that informs its user base so regularly, clearly and extensively while taking community feedback into consideration, and at the same time have the chops to tell someone they're missing the finer points of some aspects of the game because they've been there themselves.
We are spoiled absolutely rotten in this place. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
862
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:57:00 -
[377] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart. If anything, wouldn't it be better to get a "tiericide" treatment for drones? Something along the lines of "this drone does X best, while this other drone does Y best." Otherwise, the fear is the decision is going to be the same as it is now: do I need speed/tracking? Minmatar. Do I need damage? Gallente. Having the Caldari and Amarr drones on a sliding scale, where they're objectively worse than their counterparts at either end just adds to that idea.
It just seems that there's plenty of room to improve the state of Amarr and Caldari drones without just making them better/worse than Gallente/Minmatar drones. Aside from their damage profiles, they'll still have nothing going for them.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2528
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 13:58:00 -
[378] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Stuff not put in context
I will cease with the defence of casual high sec players when their defence is not needed anymore. But yeah, these nerfs hurt a whole lot more than just casual players. I would LOVE to see what these optimal / falloff / tracking numbers look like when put in the context of the Omni obliteration from last month. Suddenly, all these numbers look a whole worse. And when you wiped out the Omi's last month, it was not done in a vacuum. You knew these other changes were coming.
Further, while the apologists will argue that the casual player does not skill up for T2 sentries, the fact remains that VAST MAJORITY of players now has to skill up 68-90 days more training to get the damage you are displaying, when you tied the racial spec skill to the sentries. It would be a whole lot more accurate to show this sentry damage at racial spec IV.
Finally, splitting the small / medium skill paths kills the new players in the Algos and Vexor, to name a couple ships. But hey, who cares about the new players, anyway? It is not like they will be joining PL anytime soon, unless it is part of BoT. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9569
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:04:00 -
[379] - Quote
Obil Que wrote: Can you address the question of access to racial T2 sentries for those with Sentry Drone Interfacing trained to V. As it stands, those with that skill will lose access to existing weapons when the requirement for racial skills is implemented. Will those pilots receive the minimum level of racial skill to compensate?
Players will not be given racial drone spec skills. We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch.
XBruin wrote:CCP Fozzie: please stop avoiding the question!
Clearly this is a buff to Wyverns and a nerf to Armor Supercaps, the Nyx especially.
The Wyvern will now have the best tank as well as the best DPS due to lowslot availability.
Please clarify if this was a conscious decision, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?
I'm sure many of us would appreciate some transparency here... Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
55
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:06:00 -
[380] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Stuff not put in context
I will cease with the defence of casual high sec players when their defence is not needed anymore. But yeah, these nerfs hurt a whole lot more than just casual players. I would LOVE to see what these optimal / falloff / tracking numbers look like when put in the context of the Omni obliteration from last month. Suddenly, all these numbers look a whole worse. And when you wiped out the Omi's last month, it was not done in a vacuum. You knew these other changes were coming. Further, while the apologists will argue that the casual player does not skill up for T2 sentries, the fact remains that VAST MAJORITY of players now has to skill up 68-90 days more training to get the damage you are displaying, when you tied the racial spec skill to the sentries. It would be a whole lot more accurate to show this sentry damage at racial spec IV. Finally, splitting the small / medium skill paths kills the new players in the Algos and Vexor, to name a couple ships. But hey, who cares about the new players, anyway? It is not like they will be joining PL anytime soon, unless it is part of BoT.
So your saying that people using drones need to max out their skills just like gunnery has to do to get max damage out of their weapon system? Oh the horror. This should have been done from the beginning as every other drone benefited from Racial Drone Specialization skills. This is not the end of the world you are making it out to be. You will still be able to get 700 + DPS with gardes. |
|
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:14:00 -
[381] - Quote
CCP Fozzie -- I asked this a few pages back, I'll ask again.
Can we look forward to Drone related hardwires ? Drones are the only primary weapon system in Eve without any hardwires. Honestly I don't even need DPS hardwires [though that would be nice].. even MWD/Normal Speed, HP, etc would be awesome.
Can we look forward to more Drone Rigs ? As it stands there are a few universal for speed and such, and then the mining and sentry specific ones. Can we see either some universal damage ones, or some for Light/Medium/Heavy damage, to complement the Sentry one ?
We have the Nav Computer, that boosts MWD speed, and the Rig that boosts normal speed.. any chance we can see a Mid to boost normal speed too ? Some drones, most notably Havies, would REALLY benefit from more speed chasing targets without having to give up a Rig slot.
Lastly, Sisters of Eve are now a Drone wielding force. Shouldn't they also get some of the Drone faction mods ? (probably some laser ones too) .. It only makes sense to keep them in line with the other factions and their selection of mods that are tied to their weapon systems.
If you could address some of this I'd be most thankful. |
Abulurd Boniface
The Scope Gallente Federation
101
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:15:00 -
[382] - Quote
Paynus Maiassus wrote:While I would like comment about the ideas about drone control range and multiple damage type drones, the major point of my post is to express dismay that the drone revamp seems to be a numbers tweak and not a real significant effort at meeting the goals of 'making all races equally appealing' or 'giving players interesting options in drone choice.'
I'm curious to hear what you all think.
So, you're whining. Which is sad because you raise valid points. You can raise valid points without whining.
I do agree that I don't see a reason not to expand on the roles of drones. They already fire at bad guys, they salvage, they do EWAR, why not also give them other interesting things to do that would make them really bad news to see them circling around your ship. That's a great point.
I don't support 'just a few tweaks'. I have some understanding of how that process works, it takes plenty of considerations to make all this work. And it belittles the efforts of our gentle giants in far Reykjavik. They are far more deserving of our love and respect than that.
I would hope that the Summer release has more to it than drone adjustments. The drones just being one aspect that's being changed.
Your points are valid and deserving of consideration and you want to present them as such. 'Expressing dismay', seriously, you're using the emotional energy of people who are working extremely hard to bring us a product that does not have an equal on all of planet Earth. Celebrate that experience and be part of it. Make it be about the great ideas you have, and they are not bad at all, don't make it about shaking fists in inchoate rage.
You asked what 'we all thought' so I'm telling you.
|
Elequent-Lady Dolorous
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:19:00 -
[383] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Obil Que wrote: Can you address the question of access to racial T2 sentries for those with Sentry Drone Interfacing trained to V. As it stands, those with that skill will lose access to existing weapons when the requirement for racial skills is implemented. Will those pilots receive the minimum level of racial skill to compensate?
Players will not be given racial drone spec skills. We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch. XBruin wrote:CCP Fozzie: please stop avoiding the question!
Clearly this is a buff to Wyverns and a nerf to Armor Supercaps, the Nyx especially.
The Wyvern will now have the best tank as well as the best DPS due to lowslot availability.
Please clarify if this was a conscious decision, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?
I'm sure many of us would appreciate some transparency here... Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed.
Well thanks for the response,
Have you tried refitting mods in high lag fights? It dosn't work half the time.
Why are we trying to buff what was already the best supercarrier statistically? Yes, the "e" was intentional.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20420
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:19:00 -
[384] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I will cease with the defence of casual high sec players when their defence is not needed anymore. Nothing of what's being done here has anything to do with highsec players, though, so I don't understand why you're bringing them up.
Quote:Finally, splitting the small / medium skill paths kills the new players in the Algos and Vexor, to name a couple ships. Not really, no, since new players will benefit from the much higher base damages they get initially with their training. They'll be far better off than they currently are and we don't yet know what the skill ranks will be for those new skills.
TrouserDeagle wrote:caldari drones already are competitive, I don't know where you're getting this frmo. and you really should do everything I suggest re: drones, because I am right. He's getting it from the fact that they aren't being used. Their competitive edge is far too small and far too situational to be worth it for most players, which is why they are seeing about as much usage as the completely useless Amarr drones. People go for a general best in class, and situational advantages of any other drones areGǪ wellGǪ situational. So those drones are discarded in favour of guaranteed results.
It's much the same reason why the split-damage GÇ£advancedGÇ¥ drones never took off: because split damage inherently means less damage. So why on earth would you get a far more expensive drone that is much worse at its only task GÇö killing stuff?
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart. I maintain the suggestion that you simply give all (non-sentry) drones the same damage output and let resists and damage profiles make the difference there. If you want to have some other differentiation, think of what it is that you get out of the speed differences and try to implement that through different means.
E.g. minmatar drones have an easy time catching up and establishing an orbit around its target. Perhaps caldari drones are a bit slower, but have much longer ranges and larger engagement envelops GÇö they don't need to fully catch their target because they just have to get close enough to bring their long range to bear. Or maybe create a classic split between alpha and DPS GÇö some drones will rather binary in that either the cloud is large enough to blap a target, or it will mostly be scary between each volley, whereas others will slowly but surely grind the target down through continuous DPS.
Do something other than just making a choice between high damage or high speed, because the half-way options will always be just half-way and will only perpetuate the same problem you're having now (for the exact same reason). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Elequent-Lady Dolorous
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:20:00 -
[385] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Obil Que wrote: Can you address the question of access to racial T2 sentries for those with Sentry Drone Interfacing trained to V. As it stands, those with that skill will lose access to existing weapons when the requirement for racial skills is implemented. Will those pilots receive the minimum level of racial skill to compensate?
Players will not be given racial drone spec skills. We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch. XBruin wrote:CCP Fozzie: please stop avoiding the question!
Clearly this is a buff to Wyverns and a nerf to Armor Supercaps, the Nyx especially.
The Wyvern will now have the best tank as well as the best DPS due to lowslot availability.
Please clarify if this was a conscious decision, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?
I'm sure many of us would appreciate some transparency here... Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed.
Well thanks for the response,
Have you tried refitting mods in high lag fights? It dosn't work half the time.
Why are we trying to buff what was already the best supercarrier statistically? Yes, the "e" was intentional.-á |
Valterra Craven
164
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:20:00 -
[386] - Quote
HEY CCP! Once again you guys are doing a lot work for not a whole lot of change! Why do insist on doing these changes?!
So here's the deal:
Leave your changes as they are if you want, BUT add the following
Dump all racial drone skills
Add the following skills
Light Drone Spec Medium Drone Spec Heavy Drone Spec Sentry Drone Spec
But I guess making a weapon system make sense and jive with all the other weapon systems in game would be too damn easy.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20420
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:25:00 -
[387] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Tippia wrote:If I were to guess, that would probably be the thing: with additions such as faction DDAs being made, we'd start seeing ships doing exactly that and also being able to deliver a couple hundred more with regular guns on top. So the top end would have to be toned down a bit to not make all the 125mb bandwidth ships (including the Ishtar) downright silly.
So in essence, to allow room for further general buffs, the baseline has to be adjusted a bit downwards to ensure that the end result remains somewhat sane. You seem to be assuming the hypothetical faction DDAs will be somehow stronger than officer ones (930dps max)... Moreover, why mention gun dps at all, dont most ships have a drone bay? No, I just assume that they'll be stronger than the T2 ones and will be in much more widespread use, which will lead to a general increase in drone-specific damage output GÇö a development they might want to tone down somewhat. I also assume that the drone ships will mount guns in addition to their drones (but mainly devote their module slots to boosting the drones rather than the guns), which would let them reach pretty silly damage outputs GÇö the pre-nerf Domi was a good example of this. Yes, most ships have drone bays, but most ships don't rely on them or spend slots boosting them because that would make their main weaponry much weaker and thus be a waste of slots.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
1078
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:25:00 -
[388] - Quote
I generally judge game changes on the basis that if they are annoying the right people it's a good change. When people like Barracuda from Finfleet abd Dinsdale is annoyed by the change is often means it's a good one. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:26:00 -
[389] - Quote
I haven't read all twenty pages of replies, so I don't know if this has come up yet or not, but it needs to be said.
These drone changes do nothing to fix how absurdly problematic it is to use drones in PvE with the AI changes from I-forget-how-long-ago. My problem is not the fact that drones get aggro sometimes - I can deal with this - but the fact that it takes an absurdly long time for the little gits to return to my ship after I order them to return to bay.
They often get blown up (or at least significantly dinged up) on the return trip, even when I give the return-to-bay order at the first sign of damage to their shields. This happens because they are slowboating with zero transversal.
Can we please have drones MWD their way back on the return trip? Or a defensive maneuvers option, or just SOMETHING to make it so that they aren't hideously overexposed to the fire of huge numbers of red crosses when I call them back? |
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
55
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:28:00 -
[390] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Obil Que wrote: Can you address the question of access to racial T2 sentries for those with Sentry Drone Interfacing trained to V. As it stands, those with that skill will lose access to existing weapons when the requirement for racial skills is implemented. Will those pilots receive the minimum level of racial skill to compensate?
Players will not be given racial drone spec skills. We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch. XBruin wrote:CCP Fozzie: please stop avoiding the question!
Clearly this is a buff to Wyverns and a nerf to Armor Supercaps, the Nyx especially.
The Wyvern will now have the best tank as well as the best DPS due to lowslot availability.
Please clarify if this was a conscious decision, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?
I'm sure many of us would appreciate some transparency here... Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed.
While I agree with you on being able to switch out mods for more damage I still feel that Thanny and Nyxs are still getting the hardest hit by this. With only 6 low slots giving up 2 slots for damage mods greatly reduces its tank. When DDA did not effect fighter and fighter bomber damage 5% per lvl was a nice bonus now with these new changes wouldn't 10% per lvl be more adequate or an entirely new bonus all together? I understand that Supers still have to be looked at but this change will effect this single ship the hardest and with out a time table on super rebalancing. |
|
Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
132
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:28:00 -
[391] - Quote
1) I don't think the changes to drone balance will help Caldari drones much, as others have argued. Not enough ships have kinetic weakness, which makes their actual DPS in most situations lower than the already faster Minmatar drones.
2) I don't really care for some of the skill changes. My view might partly be biased in that I just finished drone interfacing V a few days ago, but the changes significantly reduce how effective a well-skilled drone pilot is over a less-skill drone pilot. Reducing to a 15% bonus instead of 10% would be more fitting I think.
3) I think the MWD speed of all light drones should be increased slightly, or, better yet, a small buff to the bonuses from the drone navigation skill--simply to keep up with MWD speed power creep that many changes have brought. I'm specifically talking about the interceptor changes. Even without links interceptors are a bit too immune to warrior IIs. That's my perception anyway, might be wrong.
|
Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:31:00 -
[392] - Quote
Hi Fozzie
They are some very good idea in the re balance.
But please check some stats if you compare long range guns versus Sentry drone.
The sentry drone are still too powerful, because range versus alpha (dps) and tracking is clearly a big advantage and when you use sentry, you don't need to use some extra slot or rigs for the fitting (example Amarr need more powergrid with beam etc).
Perhaps the best way will be to decrease the tracking of the sentry by 25%
Also for the modification of the new drone light medium and heavy it's a good thing about new repartition tracking versus dps and speed.
But you have still the problem when you use small drone against inty or very very fast ship. Your drone can't apply the damage because light drone make a lot of mwd between each hit . (same problem with all e-war drone) Example the small web drone are completely useless against inty.
Tracking disruptor :
why not use the tracking disruptor against drone. When you use then on the ship the module perturb the transmission data between ship and drone . That will be affect the tracking or the range of the drone also.
|
Degalo
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:33:00 -
[393] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed.
So, just outright admit that you'd like armor supercarrier pilots to be forced into more risk to have the same damage as before - because they can "refit on the fly" - which actually isn't always an option (massive bumps, depots being destroyed before onlining ... you know, things actual experience teaches you).
This isn't balance, it's an attempt to force players into something else in what is supposed to be a sandbox.
In the bigger picture, shield supers are not viable because shield titans are not viable:
1. The damage application of the Leviathan sucks, because capital missiles are absolute ****.
2. The Ragnarok has the weakest shield tank of all titans.
So unless you are going to be reworking titans as well - which will very likely just be another nerf to armor, rather than a buff to shield, you're going to see very little difference in Wyvern use.
You cannot achieve balance by wildly swinging the nerf bat around the table. You must understand the whole picture, and how the classes work together - and you don't, not even in the slightest. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
509
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:35:00 -
[394] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Obil Que wrote: Can you address the question of access to racial T2 sentries for those with Sentry Drone Interfacing trained to V. As it stands, those with that skill will lose access to existing weapons when the requirement for racial skills is implemented. Will those pilots receive the minimum level of racial skill to compensate?
Players will not be given racial drone spec skills. We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch. XBruin wrote:CCP Fozzie: please stop avoiding the question!
Clearly this is a buff to Wyverns and a nerf to Armor Supercaps, the Nyx especially.
The Wyvern will now have the best tank as well as the best DPS due to lowslot availability.
Please clarify if this was a conscious decision, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?
I'm sure many of us would appreciate some transparency here... Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed. so this means that if no further training, someone currently able to use T2 sentrys having all racials at IV, will not be able to use them anymore after?
if this is the case, then it is very, very wrong because you are screwing ppl over their SP, training time, thus the money they gave you. |
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1717
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:36:00 -
[395] - Quote
Why did you make fighter bombers almost unbombable now? At the moment you can catch them during a small timeframe where they MWD to a target and are clustered up. In the future you will need multiple bomb waves to kill them even there.
When they are at a target they are as unbombable as a battleship. CCP Rise, pls. |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
367
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:36:00 -
[396] - Quote
Degalo wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed. So, just outright admit that you'd like armor supercarrier pilots to be forced into more risk to have the same damage as before - because they can "refit on the fly" - which actually isn't always an option (massive bumps, depots being destroyed before onlining ... you know, things actual experience teaches you). This isn't balance, it's an attempt to force players into something else in what is supposed to be a sandbox. In the bigger picture, shield supers are not viable because shield titans are not viable: 1. The damage application of the Leviathan sucks, because capital missiles are absolute ****. 2. The Ragnarok has the weakest shield tank of all titans. So unless you are going to be reworking titans as well - which will very likely just be another nerf to armor, rather than a buff to shield, you're going to see very little difference in Wyvern use. You cannot achieve balance by wildly swinging the nerf bat around the table. You must understand the whole picture, and how the classes work together - and you don't, not even in the slightest.
Its an attempt to balance an utterly overpowered class of ship. Also, post with your main, its more fun that way.
|
Drak Fel
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
39
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:39:00 -
[397] - Quote
Barbaydos wrote:now the fighter bombers are going to die, its a fact, with a buff to their hp it may take a bit longer but they are still going to die. with the volume changes the aeon and wyvern are going to quickly run out of bombers relegating them to being repair platforms or just doing fighter dps. not very super anymore
Apparently CCP feels that supercarriers should only be used for grinding undefended structures and as expensive logistics ships. All of the changes they make to them move them more and more into those roles exclusively and make them more and more useless for anything else. |
Admiral Rufus
Boris Johnson's Love Children Awakened.
39
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:39:00 -
[398] - Quote
Give us a way of repairing our drones which have suffered armor/structure damage whilst in space, damaged drones are bloody annoying in wormholes. This could be as simple as allowing nanite paste repair of drones, or my favourite idea of giving a highslot smartbomb like module which does aoe repair and just works on drones, not enough to allow you to keep drones alive under fire, but enough to repair them if you need to out of combat |
Nartel Vortok
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
52
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:43:00 -
[399] - Quote
Admiral Rufus wrote:Give us a way of repairing our drones which have suffered armor/structure damage whilst in space, damaged drones are bloody annoying in wormholes. This could be as simple as allowing nanite paste repair of drones, or my favourite idea of giving a highslot smartbomb like module which does aoe repair and just works on drones, not enough to allow you to keep drones alive under fire, but enough to repair them if you need to out of combat
You could call it a 'Remote armor repairer' and make 4 sizes of it: small, medium, large and capital. |
Drak Fel
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
39
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:44:00 -
[400] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Why did you make fighter bombers almost unbombable now? At the moment you can catch them during a small timeframe where they MWD to a target and are clustered up. In the future you will need multiple bomb waves to kill them even there.
When they are at a target they are as unbombable as a battleship. CCP Rise, pls.
Seriously? You're mad because it will take one guy running several cheap bombers with isboxer more than one bombing run to make a 30 billion plus isk ship defenseless? |
|
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:46:00 -
[401] - Quote
I'm sorry if this question has been posted before, I didn't read all the previous pages but...
Are you changing the requirements for Light and Medium drones from Scout Drone Operation (Drone Avionics) to Combat Drone Operations (Light/Medium Drone Operations) instead?
It makes sense, and that's what it sounds like in the blog, but it doesn't come out and say it so I wanted to double check. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9574
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:46:00 -
[402] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:CCP Fozzie -- I asked this a few pages back, I'll ask again.
Can we look forward to Drone related hardwires ? Drones are the only primary weapon system in Eve without any hardwires. Honestly I don't even need DPS hardwires [though that would be nice].. even MWD/Normal Speed, HP, etc would be awesome.
Can we look forward to more Drone Rigs ? As it stands there are a few universal for speed and such, and then the mining and sentry specific ones. Can we see either some universal damage ones, or some for Light/Medium/Heavy damage, to complement the Sentry one ?
We have the Nav Computer, that boosts MWD speed, and the Rig that boosts normal speed.. any chance we can see a Mid to boost normal speed too ? Some drones, most notably Havies, would REALLY benefit from more speed chasing targets without having to give up a Rig slot.
Lastly, Sisters of Eve are now a Drone wielding force. Shouldn't they also get some of the Drone faction mods ? (probably some laser ones too) .. It only makes sense to keep them in line with the other factions and their selection of mods that are tied to their weapon systems.
If you could address some of this I'd be most thankful.
We're not going to be expanding the modifiers on drones any more than this for one expansion, as we need to make sure that we can keep track of how the changes we're making has affected behavior. All of those are options for the future, however. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
Onotole Vassermanov
The Black Company G.C. Southern Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:51:00 -
[403] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Dump all racial drone skills
Add the following skills
Light Drone Spec Medium Drone Spec Heavy Drone Spec Sentry Drone Spec
I agree. Or make a speciall skill for each type of Crystall/Missile/Turret damage type making it damage type based.
|
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1717
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:52:00 -
[404] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:Ammzi wrote:Why did you make fighter bombers almost unbombable now? At the moment you can catch them during a small timeframe where they MWD to a target and are clustered up. In the future you will need multiple bomb waves to kill them even there.
When they are at a target they are as unbombable as a battleship. CCP Rise, pls. Seriously? You're mad because it will take one guy running several cheap bombers with isboxer more than one bombing run to make a 30 billion plus isk ship defenseless?
Implying it's easy to bomb fighterbombers in that short timeframe they MWD considering just 10 seconds is spent on bomb travel. And more than one run won't cut it, because they'll just be repped up now. There's only 10 fighter bombers, so you only have to top up those 10's armor in the 2 min. for the bomb launch timer cycle.
You don't need two runs, you need two waves and that just makes things 10 times as difficult and even if it succeeds only those fighter bombers in the overlap will die and that overlap is much smaller than the current 30 km radius. And if they don't MWD it'll take 4 overlapping waves which is basically battleship durability.
(generic comment about not being mad, but wondering if Rise considered this, because it doesn't scale properly with bombs.)
|
Belisa Kyspar
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:53:00 -
[405] - Quote
Steph Livingston wrote:I'm sorry if this question has been posted before, I didn't read all the previous pages but...
Are you changing the requirements for Light and Medium drones from Scout Drone Operation (Drone Avionics) to Combat Drone Operations (Light/Medium Drone Operations) instead?
It makes sense, and that's what it sounds like in the blog, but it doesn't come out and say it so I wanted to double check. If this is the case someone who currently has (say) SDO 5, CDO 3 and can currently field T2 lights/mediums will not be able to after the patch, correct? |
Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:55:00 -
[406] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Good morning everyone. Since it's April 2nd I want to go ahead and confirm once and for all that our balance posts and blog yesterday were 100% legit. We had a little fun subverting expectations and making honest announcements on April 1st. To answer a couple of questions and issues raised so far: - I love you too Dinsdale, never change.
- We'll be increasing the base mining yield of all mining drones by 33% to compensate for the change to Drone Interfacing. This means that at max skills mining drones will have identical yield to pre-patch and at lower skills they will be improved. Thanks to CSM member Mike Azariah for reminding me.
- There's currently a display bug that makes the Drone Navigation Computer say that it adds newtons of force. It actually increases drone MWD top speed by a percentage, +30% for T2.
- Grath if you think this change nerfs the speed at which supercarriers reinforce sov structures, you're doing it wrong.
- I'm seeing a fair bit of confusion about the details of the Sentry changes. I left the nitty gritty details out of the text section of the blog since they don't lend themselves to easy summaries and the actual numbers were in the spreadsheet, but I'll go over the end results of the changes to T1 and T2 sentries here so people can see the whole picture. These numbers assume max skills:
Curator I - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +18.15% damage Warden I - +40% falloff, +12% damage Garde I - +50% falloff, +2% damage Bouncer I - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, +2.86% damage
Curator II - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +8.31% damage Warden II - +40% falloff, +2.67% damage Garde II - +50% falloff, -6.5% damage Bouncer II - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, -5.71% damage
- We understand the frustrations expressed by some about how these changes do not address the Drone UI, AI and/or Ewar Drones. These are important issues, but they require a different set of resources to solve and we are not going to hold back meaningful positive changes to wait until we can fix everything at once.
- We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart.
So since im maxed skills and your actually not buffing drones but debuffing them can i please get my drone skills reimbursed. i didn't spend 2 months training my drone skills to get my only powerful weapon system to be debuffed so drastically.
Currently i have max sentry drone damage post this there was no reason to get sentry drone interfacing five or sentry drone interfacing to five because federation drones would be nearly as good anyways. conversely your halfing the damage i get from drone interfacing.
Basically what you've done is hide behind the fact that your nerfing gardes and bouncer (the best two pvp drones) and instead claiming because your making shittier drones that take less skills better your throwing the middle finger to ever dedicated sentry pilot in the game.
So if this is generally what you want to do i'd like my skill points reimbursed for sentries as i'd be better off using any other tech 2 gun system with mediocre drone skills.
Also this complete screws the dominix because the tracking increases your giving will make their tracking bonuses not really matter, bouncers will hit battleships whether your flying a dominix or mega or even something like a myrmidon.
So i don't want your pve buff because it screws my pvp toons effectiveness, can i please have my skill points so i can just go get ina hac like every other pilot.
Sincerely, a 1 year player getting screwed by a patch. |
Rikard Nomm
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:57:00 -
[407] - Quote
did i miss it completely, or has there been no mention of what Racial Drone Spec level will be required to use T2 sentries? will it be Racial Spec IV like the heavies? That seems to make the most sense given they both use the same bandwidth therefore are the same "size" weapon system.
Some confirmation would be neat tho. |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:57:00 -
[408] - Quote
Belisa Kyspar wrote:If this is the case someone who currently has (say) SDO 5, CDO 3 and can currently field T2 lights/mediums will not be able to after the patch, correct?
Which was my concern as well, just not stated so eloquently. |
Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 14:59:00 -
[409] - Quote
Rikard Nomm wrote:did i miss it completely, or has there been no mention of what Racial Drone Spec level will be required to use T2 sentries? will it be Racial Spec IV like the heavies? That seems to make the most sense given they both use the same bandwidth therefore are the same "size" weapon system.
Some confirmation would be neat tho.
Sentries require no racial now i don't know why the would in the future, sentry drone interfacing skill is pretty high level skill to need. |
Drak Fel
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
40
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:02:00 -
[410] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Drak Fel wrote:Ammzi wrote:Why did you make fighter bombers almost unbombable now? At the moment you can catch them during a small timeframe where they MWD to a target and are clustered up. In the future you will need multiple bomb waves to kill them even there.
When they are at a target they are as unbombable as a battleship. CCP Rise, pls. Seriously? You're mad because it will take one guy running several cheap bombers with isboxer more than one bombing run to make a 30 billion plus isk ship defenseless? Implying it's easy to bomb fighterbombers in that short timeframe they MWD considering just 10 seconds is spent on bomb travel. And more than one run won't cut it, because they'll just be repped up now. There's only 10 fighter bombers, so you only have to top up those 10's armor in the 2 min. for the bomb launch timer cycle. You don't need two runs, you need two waves and that just makes things 10 times as difficult and even if it succeeds only those fighter bombers in the overlap will die and that overlap is much smaller than the current 30 km radius. And if they don't MWD it'll take 4 overlapping waves which is basically battleship durability. (generic comment about not being mad, but wondering if Rise considered this, because it doesn't scale properly with bombs.)
It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30-35 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever? |
|
seth Hendar
I love you miners
509
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:08:00 -
[411] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:Ammzi wrote:Drak Fel wrote:Ammzi wrote:Why did you make fighter bombers almost unbombable now? At the moment you can catch them during a small timeframe where they MWD to a target and are clustered up. In the future you will need multiple bomb waves to kill them even there.
When they are at a target they are as unbombable as a battleship. CCP Rise, pls. Seriously? You're mad because it will take one guy running several cheap bombers with isboxer more than one bombing run to make a 30 billion plus isk ship defenseless? Implying it's easy to bomb fighterbombers in that short timeframe they MWD considering just 10 seconds is spent on bomb travel. And more than one run won't cut it, because they'll just be repped up now. There's only 10 fighter bombers, so you only have to top up those 10's armor in the 2 min. for the bomb launch timer cycle. You don't need two runs, you need two waves and that just makes things 10 times as difficult and even if it succeeds only those fighter bombers in the overlap will die and that overlap is much smaller than the current 30 km radius. And if they don't MWD it'll take 4 overlapping waves which is basically battleship durability. (generic comment about not being mad, but wondering if Rise considered this, because it doesn't scale properly with bombs.) It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30-35 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever? htfu.
it is the same feeling than being blaped flying a 3-4B macha / vindi by a isboxer kevin boxing 10 nados, yet the only answer we have, from both CCP and plaers, is HTFU, so HTFU, why should it be different in this case? because you fly a giant carrier? you don't even loose the thing in your described scenario! |
Onotole Vassermanov
The Black Company G.C. Southern Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:13:00 -
[412] - Quote
As i said before. Totally disappointed by last and coming drone fixes. Why drone boat have to learn a lot of mad interfasing/sharpshooter/shikness/size/racial/control range/amount skills ONLY for side weapon that can be killed, lost and do not perform as good as a turret/missile platform both PVP or PVE usage. Basic gunnery skills affect ALL type of turrets and trained once give benefit to ALL kind of turrets.
Clear all drone SP, and make it possible to choose for each one would it be usable or not to train drones, or probably use this point for other weapon systems. Drones was totally unusable 2009 and now it goes to be "SP killers" without benefit. Still any gunnery platform suffering from ammo-usage will be more valuable "per SP" |
Drak Fel
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
40
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:13:00 -
[413] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:Drak Fel wrote:Ammzi wrote:Drak Fel wrote:Ammzi wrote:Why did you make fighter bombers almost unbombable now? At the moment you can catch them during a small timeframe where they MWD to a target and are clustered up. In the future you will need multiple bomb waves to kill them even there.
When they are at a target they are as unbombable as a battleship. CCP Rise, pls. Seriously? You're mad because it will take one guy running several cheap bombers with isboxer more than one bombing run to make a 30 billion plus isk ship defenseless? Implying it's easy to bomb fighterbombers in that short timeframe they MWD considering just 10 seconds is spent on bomb travel. And more than one run won't cut it, because they'll just be repped up now. There's only 10 fighter bombers, so you only have to top up those 10's armor in the 2 min. for the bomb launch timer cycle. You don't need two runs, you need two waves and that just makes things 10 times as difficult and even if it succeeds only those fighter bombers in the overlap will die and that overlap is much smaller than the current 30 km radius. And if they don't MWD it'll take 4 overlapping waves which is basically battleship durability. (generic comment about not being mad, but wondering if Rise considered this, because it doesn't scale properly with bombs.) It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30-35 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever? htfu. it is the same feeling than being blaped flying a 3-4B macha / vindi by a isboxer kevin boxing 10 nados, yet the only answer we have, from both CCP and plaers, is HTFU, so HTFU, why should it be different in this case? because you fly a giant carrier? you don't even loose the thing in your described scenario!
I'm not saying it should be impossible, but requiring more than one wave of bombs to do it seems reasonable. |
Cheekything
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
160
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:14:00 -
[414] - Quote
I love the ideas as always you CCP devs seem to know the score.
FB and Fighter (oh god yes), however I'm not sure if I misread but wont Supercarriers be able to field 15 fighter/bomber with the advanced drone interfacing giving them a buff over their current damage output.
Also would you ever consider removing the damage type from drones in favour of straight up role based drones using a cross based system over the current linear line as the current system will always lead to favourites, DPS and Speed.
Such as: For Regular drones/Fighers
EHP | DPS ----- Tracking | Speed
For Sentries
EHP | DPS ----- Range | Tracking
I think this might lead to much more diversity in drone use overall
|
Rikard Nomm
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:14:00 -
[415] - Quote
Nira Meru wrote:Rikard Nomm wrote:did i miss it completely, or has there been no mention of what Racial Drone Spec level will be required to use T2 sentries? will it be Racial Spec IV like the heavies? That seems to make the most sense given they both use the same bandwidth therefore are the same "size" weapon system.
Some confirmation would be neat tho. Sentries require no racial now i don't know why the would in the future, sentry drone interfacing skill is pretty high level skill to need.
quoted from dev blog, see text i put in bold:
Quote:For quality levels, Tech Two sentry drones are currently massive upgrades over their Tech One equivalents since range, tracking and damage are all such important attributes for sentries. We will be keeping the 20% bonuses to hitpoints, tracking, optimal, and falloff that Tech Two enjoys over Tech One; but instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries. |
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1717
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:14:00 -
[416] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:
It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever?
I might have 99 problems in EVE, but earning isk is not one of them. I'm sorry you feel that way. Here, let's have Rise solve that problem for you. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
341
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:20:00 -
[417] - Quote
Hi Fozzie, a few questions/concerns regarding these changes affecting Supercarriers:
1) An Aeon will be able to replace one or two low slots (usually meant for tank) with DDAs instead. This will allow an Aeon to put out more DPS than a Nyx at the cost of losing some tank. The problem however is that this Aeon will still have the same EHP as a Nyx meaning the Nyx's damage bonus is essentially useless. Nyxes regain the DPS edge over Aeons again if you shove three or four DDAs on it which seems kind of silly. Will you be reworking something -- for example increasing the Nyx damage bonus or increasing base fighter bomber damage - to give back the only thing the Nyx really excelled at.
2) These changes seem to be nudging Supercarrier pilots to use Drone Control Units, since they will now essentially be a 10% bonus to bomber damage. Supercarrier CHAs are really tight right now -- its hard to fit fuel, extra capital mods, and whatever other random junk you happen to carry. Will you be reducing the volume of DCUs? Increasing CHA size? Or perhaps doing something like introducing faction DCUs that have lower volume than the current t1 versions?
3) Will Revenants be re-worked slightly? They are kind of crappy in their current form but they DO have the advantage of 100% drone damage bonus. This makes DCUs very effective -- if you stick five of them on a Revenant you can get 12k DPS. With these changes, the normal supers will now have that same double drone damage bonus thus taking away pretty much the only small advantage the Revenant had over the others. Will you be making a change to Revenants to make them somewhat unique again (besides having faster bombers and looking like a giant space turd)? |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
753
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:22:00 -
[418] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever? Spending the most isk shouldn't mean an automatic win. Why do you guys keep insisting that it should?
EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
341
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:22:00 -
[419] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Drak Fel wrote:
It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever?
I might have 99 problems in EVE, but earning isk is not one of them. I'm sorry you feel that way. Here, let's have Rise solve that problem for you. PS: Isn't that the same arguments freighters use? "It's not fair I spend over 1b on this ship, how come a handful of 10m isk ships can kill me?"
God forbid stealth bombers have to be a little coordinated after the patch in order to completely neuter a trillion isk fleet |
Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:23:00 -
[420] - Quote
Onotole Vassermanov wrote:As i said before. Totally disappointed by last and coming drone fixes. Why drone boat have to learn a lot of mad interfasing/sharpshooter/shikness/size/racial/control range/amount skills ONLY for side weapon that can be killed, lost and do not perform as good as a turret/missile platform both PVP or PVE usage. Basic gunnery skills affect ALL type of turrets and trained once give benefit to ALL kind of turrets.
Clear all drone SP, and make it possible to choose for each one would it be usable or not to train drones, or probably use this point for other weapon systems. Drones was totally unusable 2009 and now it goes to be "SP killers" without benefit. Still any gunnery platform suffering from ammo-usage will be more valuable "per SP"
100% agree |
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6805
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:25:00 -
[421] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed.
what about that a nyx is now strictly inferior to an aeon? Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
274
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:25:00 -
[422] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote: htfu.
it is the same feeling than being blaped flying a 3-4B macha / vindi by a isboxer kevin boxing 10 nados, yet the only answer we have, from both CCP and plaers, is HTFU, so HTFU, why should it be different in this case? because you fly a giant carrier? you don't even loose the thing in your described scenario!
I've got a hunch here that you're no super pilot.
When there's a gaggle of supers in the process of booshing something, all their fibos are moving in synchronously, all bunched together and often over 30-50km distances to and from their target.
So when you have, say, 10 supers' worth of fibos running around bunched up (because that's just what they do), all it takes is 1 guy isbox'ing 6-7 bombers to wipe out 200 fibos. That's 90k-100k of DPS and roughly 7bn in fibos gone in a blink of an eye. When you see the bombers decloak, you can't make them move faster, you can't make them zig or zag or do something to get out of the bombs' AoE, all you are left to do is sit there and tab over to your indy alt to start scrounging up some replacements as you watch your current flight disappear into the ether.
Multiply occurrences like that by it happening 2-3 times a week during a burn+grind campaign and maybe, just maybe you might start to get a sense of how stupid that whole situation is. |
Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:25:00 -
[423] - Quote
Rikard Nomm wrote:Nira Meru wrote:Rikard Nomm wrote:did i miss it completely, or has there been no mention of what Racial Drone Spec level will be required to use T2 sentries? will it be Racial Spec IV like the heavies? That seems to make the most sense given they both use the same bandwidth therefore are the same "size" weapon system.
Some confirmation would be neat tho. Sentries require no racial now i don't know why the would in the future, sentry drone interfacing skill is pretty high level skill to need. quoted from dev blog, see text i put in bold: Quote:For quality levels, Tech Two sentry drones are currently massive upgrades over their Tech One equivalents since range, tracking and damage are all such important attributes for sentries. We will be keeping the 20% bonuses to hitpoints, tracking, optimal, and falloff that Tech Two enjoys over Tech One; but instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries.
So it's a massive F you to every sentry pilot who doesn't have heavies... no seriosuly why would i ever use sentries over heavies again? |
Masao Kurata
Z List
48
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:25:00 -
[424] - Quote
Mostly good stuff but I'm confused by you first stating that drones are too skill intensive a weapons system followed by an increase in the total SP required for that system by splitting the combat drone operation skill. Every time you do this you make new players less competent because of their age, this is not a good thing for the game. Unless of course you're turning it into two 1x skills, in which case good change.
Like most people I really have to agree that there's still no compelling reason to use caldari or amarr drones with the proposed changes. Maybe they could be given new classes to be best in, such as lowest signature radius, best tracking (leaving minmatar with best mwd speed) or best durability. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:28:00 -
[425] - Quote
Fozzie, a couple of skill related questions;
- as someone else has asked, what level of the drone spec will be required for T2 sentries?
- the skill which is being split, Combat Drone Operations, is not currently the skill which gives you access to T1 and T2 light/medium drones, this is Scout Drone Operations. Does this mean it will be possible to lose access to T2 drones that you currently can use if you have Scout Drone Operations V, but not Combat Drone Operations V? As far as I can tell, this would lead to you getting the new prerequisites for the light/medium drones at a lower level, meaning you couldn't use the T2 drones any more. This should perhaps be made clearer, as it is not immediately obvious going by your usual logic of "if you can fly it before, you can fly it after." |
Janes Shield
Frozen Dawn Inc Frozen Dawn Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:29:00 -
[426] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Obil Que wrote: Can you address the question of access to racial T2 sentries for those with Sentry Drone Interfacing trained to V. As it stands, those with that skill will lose access to existing weapons when the requirement for racial skills is implemented. Will those pilots receive the minimum level of racial skill to compensate?
Players will not be given racial drone spec skills. We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch.
Well, you could at least tell what is the racial drone skill level requirement for operating T2 sentries instead of being all secretive about it :( |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3364
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:30:00 -
[427] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:- We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart.
Wild guess: most ships have substantial kinetic resist.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
5566
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:31:00 -
[428] - Quote
As an aside, I'd still like to have a drone option where the drones simply orbited your own ship, as a destructible but hard to hit weapons system.
Actually, it kind of sounds like a good fit for heavy drones, and travel time has always been the main drawback to them. Obviously it would mean they would need their effective ranges reworked.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
510
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:33:00 -
[429] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:
I'm not saying it should be impossible, but requiring more than one wave of bombs to do it seems reasonable.
it is just a matter of wave size, just put 2*more bomber.
in fact, since the HP will be buffed, and the volume doubled, you will have twice less bomber, for same DPS, with twice more HP, so it will require twice the number of bomb to destroy them
now, each bomb damage the next if too close, actually limiting the number of bombs / wave
if said limit is let's say 12 bombs / wave, and now it is required 10 to kill FB, after update it'll require 20....but 20 in one wave is not possible, require then 2 waves, wich is harder to sync, and give more time to recall FB.
from this POV, FB are now more likely to actually survive a bombing run (indeed depends max number of concurrent bombs, but at least, they won't be MORE vulnerable than actually) |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
595
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:33:00 -
[430] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:As an aside, I'd still like to have a drone option where the drones simply orbited your own ship, as a destructible but hard to hit weapons system.
Actually, it kind of sounds like a good fit for heavy drones, and travel time has always been the main drawback to them. Obviously it would mean they would need their effective ranges reworked.
even better fit for sentry drones |
|
seth Hendar
I love you miners
510
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:39:00 -
[431] - Quote
Tarsas Phage wrote:seth Hendar wrote: htfu.
it is the same feeling than being blaped flying a 3-4B macha / vindi by a isboxer kevin boxing 10 nados, yet the only answer we have, from both CCP and plaers, is HTFU, so HTFU, why should it be different in this case? because you fly a giant carrier? you don't even loose the thing in your described scenario!
I've got a hunch here that you're no super pilot. When there's a gaggle of supers in the process of booshing something, all their fibos are moving in synchronously, all bunched together and often over 30-50km distances to and from their target. So when you have, say, 10 supers' worth of fibos running around bunched up (because that's just what they do), all it takes is 1 guy isbox'ing 6-7 bombers to wipe out 200 fibos. That's 90k-100k of DPS and roughly 7bn in fibos gone in a blink of an eye. When you see the bombers decloak, you can't make them move faster, you can't make them zig or zag or do something to get out of the bombs' AoE, all you are left to do is sit there and tab over to your indy alt to start scrounging up some replacements as you watch your current flight disappear into the ether. Multiply occurrences like that by it happening 2-3 times a week during a burn+grind campaign and maybe, just maybe you might start to get a sense of how stupid that whole situation is.
again, how is this different?
if it is too expansive for you to loose several flight of fibos a week, then just stop flying your super, that's all......
i like how every super pilote bash ppl in very similar situations telling them to "fly only what you can afford", "htfu" and stuff, while they, in fact, whine exactly the same.
you are no special snowflake because you fly a 20B ship you know, same rule for everyone, deal with it
ps: nyx pilot here, just sayin, so i see exactly what you mean |
tsiliadora
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:41:00 -
[432] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed.
ok now explain me how this is gonna work in heavy tidi or heavy bumb ??? and ok i accept that is a buff to wyvern, but why at the same time you make so heavy nerf to nyx???
after that it gonna be worst even that hel !!! (in statistics)
and dont make me talk sbout what is gonna happen to the prices of that ship ( imagine 300-400 ppl try to sell their nyx and buy an aeon /wyvern )
the only way to keep them in balance with these changes is also to change the bonus (from 5% to 10%)
and you have all the sc's in a line ( tank-dps) .
|
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1717
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:42:00 -
[433] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:Ammzi wrote:Drak Fel wrote:
It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever?
I might have 99 problems in EVE, but earning isk is not one of them. I'm sorry you feel that way. Here, let's have Rise solve that problem for you. PS: Isn't that the same arguments freighters use? "It's not fair I spend over 1b on this ship, how come a handful of 10m isk ships can kill me?" God forbid stealth bombers have to be a little coordinated after the patch in order to completely neuter a trillion isk fleet
Implying you could do the same with little to no effort. God forbid supers have to be a little coordinated to avoid losing their fighter bombers. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2534
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:44:00 -
[434] - Quote
Nira Meru wrote:Rikard Nomm wrote:Nira Meru wrote:Rikard Nomm wrote:did i miss it completely, or has there been no mention of what Racial Drone Spec level will be required to use T2 sentries? will it be Racial Spec IV like the heavies? That seems to make the most sense given they both use the same bandwidth therefore are the same "size" weapon system.
Some confirmation would be neat tho. Sentries require no racial now i don't know why the would in the future, sentry drone interfacing skill is pretty high level skill to need. quoted from dev blog, see text i put in bold: Quote:For quality levels, Tech Two sentry drones are currently massive upgrades over their Tech One equivalents since range, tracking and damage are all such important attributes for sentries. We will be keeping the 20% bonuses to hitpoints, tracking, optimal, and falloff that Tech Two enjoys over Tech One; but instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries. So it's a massive F you to every sentry pilot who doesn't have heavies... no seriosuly why would i ever use sentries over heavies again?
Because in a PvE environment, heavies can't be used because the AI implemented to enhance "the player experience" 2 years ago chews them to pieces in seconds. So the next step, after people are forced to use sentries, is to wreck them, with the Omni demolition, and now this. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Drak Fel
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
42
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:47:00 -
[435] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:penifSMASH wrote:Ammzi wrote:Drak Fel wrote:
It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever?
I might have 99 problems in EVE, but earning isk is not one of them. I'm sorry you feel that way. Here, let's have Rise solve that problem for you. PS: Isn't that the same arguments freighters use? "It's not fair I spend over 1b on this ship, how come a handful of 10m isk ships can kill me?" God forbid stealth bombers have to be a little coordinated after the patch in order to completely neuter a trillion isk fleet Implying you could do the same with little to no effort. God forbid supers have to be a little coordinated to avoid losing their fighter bombers.
If they die to one wave of bombs (like they do now), there's literally nothing you can do. Making it take two waves means you have a chance to keep them alive if you actively try to save them. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
458
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:48:00 -
[436] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:seth Hendar wrote:Drak Fel wrote:Ammzi wrote:Drak Fel wrote:
Seriously? You're mad because it will take one guy running several cheap bombers with isboxer more than one bombing run to make a 30 billion plus isk ship defenseless?
Implying it's easy to bomb fighterbombers in that short timeframe they MWD considering just 10 seconds is spent on bomb travel. And more than one run won't cut it, because they'll just be repped up now. There's only 10 fighter bombers, so you only have to top up those 10's armor in the 2 min. for the bomb launch timer cycle. You don't need two runs, you need two waves and that just makes things 10 times as difficult and even if it succeeds only those fighter bombers in the overlap will die and that overlap is much smaller than the current 30 km radius. And if they don't MWD it'll take 4 overlapping waves which is basically battleship durability. (generic comment about not being mad, but wondering if Rise considered this, because it doesn't scale properly with bombs.) It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30-35 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever? htfu. it is the same feeling than being blaped flying a 3-4B macha / vindi by a isboxer kevin boxing 10 nados, yet the only answer we have, from both CCP and plaers, is HTFU, so HTFU, why should it be different in this case? because you fly a giant carrier? you don't even loose the thing in your described scenario! I'm not saying it should be impossible, but requiring more than one wave of bombs to do it seems reasonable.
well dont pull in your FB's everytime you see bombs in the air. FB's are more durable taking the damage with their mwd's off then after the wave to pull them in to rep with your cap armor reppers etc...
currently it takes between 14 and 17 bombs to kill a FB dependent on skills. with the HP increase it puts that at 28-34 bombs, which to even an experienced bomber FC is a much harder task to do especially in a time constraint. its also much rarer to see a bomber fleet with more than 3 squads, meaning to kill FB's after the HP buff means it'll take upwards of 2+ minutes to do.
A Supercarrier pilot will have to literally be afk to loose FB's before pulling them in and/or repping them back to full health.
|
stoicfaux
4359
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:48:00 -
[437] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: We are hearing the feedback from those of you who argue that this change doesn't go far enough to make the Caldari and Amarr drones competitive. It is too soon to announce anything else yet but we're taking this feedback to heart. [/list] What about letting the guinea pigs (players) figure it out by providing them with multiple versions of each racial drone? For example, provide artillery and autocannon versions of Minmatar drones, which would let players figure out whether longer ranged, lower tracking, high alpha drones are more useful than short-ranged, high tracking, fast cycling drones.
I'm pretty sure that Wardens/Wasps that come in railgun and blaster variants would be interesting.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
DrunkenOne
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:49:00 -
[438] - Quote
Most of what I see seems reasonable but I have to ask for some love for Revenants. At this point the ship is at best the worst super carrier. The advantage of only have to use 10 fb's will be gone. The ship is the most expensive ship in game at this point and is nothing more than a rich mans toy with no reason to put it on the field.
D1 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20423
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:51:00 -
[439] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Because in a PvE environment, heavies can't be used because the AI implemented to enhance "the player experience" 2 years ago chews them to pieces in seconds. GǪexcept that the AI implementation had nothing to do with that (and it didn't happen two years ago either). Sentries were always the better choice for PvE due to their higher damage and far better damage projection.
Nira Meru wrote:So it's a massive F you to every sentry pilot who doesn't have heavies... no seriosuly why would i ever use sentries over heavies again? For much the same reasons as before: damage projection and ease of use. They will no longer also have higher damage, but that is a good thing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Drak Fel
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
42
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:52:00 -
[440] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote: well dont pull in your FB's everytime you see bombs in the air. FB's are more durable taking the damage with their mwd's off then after the wave to pull them in to rep with your cap armor reppers etc...
currently it takes between 14 and 17 bombs to kill a FB dependent on skills. with the HP increase it puts that at 28-34 bombs, which to even an experienced bomber FC is a much harder task to do especially in a time constraint. its also much rarer to see a bomber fleet with more than 3 squads, meaning to kill FB's after the HP buff means it'll take upwards of 2+ minutes to do.
A Supercarrier pilot will have to literally be afk to loose FB's before pulling them in and/or repping them back to full health.
Halfway descent bomber pilots wait until the structure is reinforced/dead and supers start to pull bombers in to bomb (actually if it died they return whether or not you told them to) and it currently does not take that many bombs to kill them I assure you.
Also, who doesn't AFK while grinding in their super? Do you know how boring that **** is? lol |
|
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
595
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:53:00 -
[441] - Quote
nullbabbies please go |
Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:54:00 -
[442] - Quote
[quote/]Because in a PvE environment, heavies can't be used because the AI implemented to enhance "the player experience" 2 years ago chews them to pieces in seconds. So the next step, after people are forced to use sentries, is to wreck them, with the Omni demolition, and now this.[/quote]
Sorry was talking PVP there. I granted this pve buffed sentries exspecially Curators in place like sansha region and Drone region where u want to do em damage, they will be amazing in those regions but, i was focused on pvp here. |
Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:57:00 -
[443] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Because in a PvE environment, heavies can't be used because the AI implemented to enhance "the player experience" 2 years ago chews them to pieces in seconds. GǪexcept that the AI implementation had nothing to do with that (and it didn't happen two years ago either). Sentries were always the better choice for PvE due to their higher damage and far better damage projection. Nira Meru wrote:So it's a massive F you to every sentry pilot who doesn't have heavies... no seriosuly why would i ever use sentries over heavies again? For much the same reasons as before: damage projection and ease of use. They will no longer also have higher damage, but that is a good thing.
they didnt have higher damage in the past ogre II highest damage in the game <3 was still talking battle ship pvp. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2064
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:59:00 -
[444] - Quote
[Ogre II - Fit it Yourself]
High
[Empty]
Mid
[Empty]
Low
[Drone Damage Amplifier II ] [Drone Damage Amplifier II]] [Overdrive Injector System II]
Wouldn't that be cool :) Wishful thinking but would be sweet to customize your drones from the inside of the drone rather than the ship itself.
Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:59:00 -
[445] - Quote
Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist ?
With devs like this who needs an assist geeze. |
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1717
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:00:00 -
[446] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:
Halfway descent bomber pilots wait until the structure is reinforced/dead and supers start to pull bombers in to bomb (actually if it died they return whether or not you told them to) and it currently does not take that many bombs to kill them I assure you.
Also, who doesn't AFK while grinding in their super? Do you know how boring that **** is? lol
> wants to not lose dps while going afk.
Sov structures such as stations and ihubs have a massive radius, so when your fighter bombers return they are not clustered together neatly. So there goes that argument. For sbus/tcus, if the supers are aligned and fleet warp the instant it dies the fighter bombers don't mwd. So there goes that argument too.
But you don't want to argue cons vs pros, you just want an easy "kill this structure with no effort while watching a movie" ship for 20-30 b isk. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2341
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:02:00 -
[447] - Quote
Sorry Fozzie this change sucks for anybody grinding structures, I'm 100% not 'doing it wrong', you're nerfing the supers DPS output and forcing them to tank less so putting them in more danger while increasing the weapon system risk because CCP refuses to do anything about ISBoxer since its feeding them subs, which amounts to every fight haviing 40+ bombers being ran by 6 guys (totally ok though right, i mean any kind of botting that feeds subs to our little icelandic company can't be all bad right?).
So try not to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you seem to have zero understanding of the current 0.0 meta.
Stop adjusting the things for how you think the game will be played and adjust it based on how its actually being played.
People are actually using ISboxer to death, and you are actually making the supercarriers more vulnerable to it. I guess the end result is supposed to be everybody grinding structures in bombers because you're seriously limiting the options on what people are willing to deal with as far as structure grinding goes.
Why can't you guys get that SOV sucks to deal with, you used to be players, how hard is it to just not screw with the things that allow us to limp through this terrible set of game mechanics without making it worse? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2064
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:05:00 -
[448] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Sorry Fozzie this change sucks for anybody grinding structures, I'm 100% not 'doing it wrong', you're nerfing the supers DPS output and forcing them to tank less so putting them in more danger while increasing the weapon system risk because CCP refuses to do anything about ISBoxer since its feeding them subs, which amounts to every fight haviing 40+ bombers being ran by 6 guys (totally ok though right, i mean any kind of botting that feeds subs to our little icelandic company can't be all bad right?).
So try not to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you seem to have zero understanding of the current 0.0 meta.
Stop adjusting the things for how you think the game will be played and adjust it based on how its actually being played.
People are actually using ISboxer to death, and you are actually making the supercarriers more vulnerable to it. I guess the end result is supposed to be everybody grinding structures in bombers because you're seriously limiting the options on what people are willing to deal with as far as structure grinding goes.
Why can't you guys get that SOV sucks to deal with, you used to be players, how hard is it to just not screw with the things that allow us to limp through this terrible set of game mechanics without making it worse? Thats a bad thing? Nope its a good thing. If you don't like risk you're playing the wrong game. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
595
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:05:00 -
[449] - Quote
oh god, supers in danger |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20423
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:05:00 -
[450] - Quote
Nira Meru wrote:they didnt have higher damage in the past ogre II highest damage in the game <3 was still talking battle ship pvp. They had higher damage before we got DDAs that let other drones boost past them (which happened after the change that dinny is confused about), and their main benefit after that change GÇö projection GÇö is stil as around and as beneficial as ever. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2345
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:07:00 -
[451] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Sorry Fozzie this change sucks for anybody grinding structures, I'm 100% not 'doing it wrong', you're nerfing the supers DPS output and forcing them to tank less so putting them in more danger while increasing the weapon system risk because CCP refuses to do anything about ISBoxer since its feeding them subs, which amounts to every fight haviing 40+ bombers being ran by 6 guys (totally ok though right, i mean any kind of botting that feeds subs to our little icelandic company can't be all bad right?).
So try not to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you seem to have zero understanding of the current 0.0 meta.
Stop adjusting the things for how you think the game will be played and adjust it based on how its actually being played.
People are actually using ISboxer to death, and you are actually making the supercarriers more vulnerable to it. I guess the end result is supposed to be everybody grinding structures in bombers because you're seriously limiting the options on what people are willing to deal with as far as structure grinding goes.
Why can't you guys get that SOV sucks to deal with, you used to be players, how hard is it to just not screw with the things that allow us to limp through this terrible set of game mechanics without making it worse? Thats a bad thing? Nope its a good thing. If you don't like risk you're playing the wrong game. Edit: Oh also, EvE has always changed, the 'current meta' is called the 'current meta' because there were past 'meta's' and there will be future 'meta's'. Welcome to the future.
So what you're saying is you have zero idea what you're talking about.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:13:00 -
[452] - Quote
A drone revamp patch?
Am I dreaming? Is this reality?
No, I'm still sleeping...
..or am I? |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
118
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:14:00 -
[453] - Quote
It's probably already been asked, but how about fixing the drone UI while you're at it? At the very least, I'd like to be able to see any armor and hull damage drones in the bay have so I don't launch damage drones I just recalled instead of a fresh one. |
iskmagnet
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:14:00 -
[454] - Quote
In every real situation it looks like the aeon can have a better tank AND a better damage output than the nyx, unless you start fitting so many damage mods your super becomes paper thin.
This means the nyx bonus no longer makes the ship attractive to fly, and people aren't going to pick it for the extra mid slot or shield transfer bonus either. RIP Nyx.
Also the base damage nerf amounts to a nerf to supers most of the time, because most of the time (even when killing capitals) we probably won't be fitting two damage mods. A 20% reduction would be more reasonable. |
Yumiko Shaku
Trigger's Broom PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:16:00 -
[455] - Quote
CCP Fozzie, So with the upcoming changes, mostly the one I want to ask about is the reduction of total drones from 20 to 10, with the way you are doing the bonuses as a 100% damage bonus to fighter and fighter bomber damage, is there a reason we can't see the return of standard drones to supercarriers minus the 100% role bonus effectively making it as useful as a regular carrier when using sub capital drones?
And if not, can we please have a new capital drone that are micro ventures, because mining supers where amusing ^.^ |
Rabbit P
23rd Tier Overseer's Personal Effects Pangu Coalition
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:16:00 -
[456] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Players will not be given racial drone spec skills. We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch.
then T2 sentries require racial Drone Specialization level 4? same as T2 heavy drone? dev blog only state T2 sentries require racial Drone but not the level. |
Yumiko Shaku
Trigger's Broom PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:17:00 -
[457] - Quote
iskmagnet wrote:In every real situation it looks like the aeon can have a better tank AND a better damage output than the nyx, unless you start fitting so many damage mods your super becomes paper thin.
This means the nyx bonus no longer makes the ship attractive to fly, and people aren't going to pick it for the extra mid slot or shield transfer bonus either. RIP Nyx.
Also the base damage nerf amounts to a nerf to supers most of the time, because most of the time (even when killing capitals) we probably won't be fitting two damage mods. A 20% reduction would be more reasonable.
Nyx is still the king of fishing, had you been on TS last night you could've listened to everyone debate it in detail :) |
MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
18
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:18:00 -
[458] - Quote
If you want heavy drones to be something someone might use for a fleet fight you need to increase the range beyond a large smartbomb, to 10 or 15 KM. If you don't, countering a fleet using heavy drones is trivial. Bring 1 BS with a stack of smartbombs. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9574
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:22:00 -
[459] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: increasing the weapon system risk
Fighter Bombers are getting double base HP, plus the effects of the Drone Durability skill. This makes them less vulnerable to bombs, not more vulnerable. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
Yumiko Shaku
Trigger's Broom PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:24:00 -
[460] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote: well dont pull in your FB's everytime you see bombs in the air. FB's are more durable taking the damage with their mwd's off then after the wave to pull them in to rep with your cap armor reppers etc...
currently it takes between 14 and 17 bombs to kill a FB dependent on skills. with the HP increase it puts that at 28-34 bombs, which to even an experienced bomber FC is a much harder task to do especially in a time constraint. its also much rarer to see a bomber fleet with more than 3 squads, meaning to kill FB's after the HP buff means it'll take upwards of 2+ minutes to do.
A Supercarrier pilot will have to literally be afk to loose FB's before pulling them in and/or repping them back to full health.
Halfway descent bomber pilots wait until the structure is reinforced/dead and supers start to pull bombers in to bomb (actually if it died they return whether or not you told them to) and it currently does not take that many bombs to kill them I assure you. Also, who doesn't AFK while grinding in their super? Do you know how boring that **** is? lol He's in a scrub alliance who has to be vigilant because they're scared the big bad phage will come kill them. |
|
Phoenix Jones
Dropbears Anonymous Brave Collective
456
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:27:00 -
[461] - Quote
I would really consider making drones get a bonus if they are launched from their racially aligned ship. If not combat drones then at least the ewar drones.. That takes more balance on the ewar side. I fear people won't bother with the other drones if they can get the max damage out of gallente drones or fastest speed out of minmatar ones.
Now these changes ARE needed, but it is a fear that without either a racial restriction (amarr to amarr drones) or a lack of a bonus to a specific racial drone type for the ship being used (such as bonuses to caldari drones when launched from a caldari ship so much so that they would be the perferred drone of caldari ship users vs going straight to gallente or minmatar as a default).
Similar to how ships get bonuses to a specific turret or missile type. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
697
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:31:00 -
[462] - Quote
good too hear about the mining drones .. now if only mining barges actually had enough dronebay too actually use them ... most people just have 5 lights to kill rats and defend themselves in general.. some actual mining drone bonuses on mining ships would also be nice rather than damage ones which are frankly bizzare .... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6805
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:31:00 -
[463] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Because in a PvE environment, heavies can't be used because the AI implemented to enhance "the player experience" 2 years ago chews them to pieces in seconds. So the next step, after people are forced to use sentries, is to wreck them, with the Omni demolition, and now this.
goons use heavies nearly exclusively for pve without problems
sounds like you're just bad at this game Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
62
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:33:00 -
[464] - Quote
Can we get light/medium/heavy sentries also?
And a new drone UI?
Vacuums suck. |
Kim Briggs
Aurora Armaments Gentlemen's Agreement
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:34:00 -
[465] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:good too hear about the mining drones .. now if only mining barges actually had enough dronebay too actually use them ... most people just have 5 lights to kill rats and defend themselves in general.. some actual mining drone bonuses on mining ships would also be nice rather than damage ones which are frankly bizzare ....
see mining barge changes |
Yumiko Shaku
Trigger's Broom PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:35:00 -
[466] - Quote
I do like the idea of more bonuses to drones e.g. Blackbird & scorpion having EC- bonus, arbitrator & apocalypse td- or Ev- ect ect |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
698
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:37:00 -
[467] - Quote
Kim Briggs wrote:Harvey James wrote:good too hear about the mining drones .. now if only mining barges actually had enough dronebay too actually use them ... most people just have 5 lights to kill rats and defend themselves in general.. some actual mining drone bonuses on mining ships would also be nice rather than damage ones which are frankly bizzare .... see mining barge changes
i have ... still applies Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
698
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:38:00 -
[468] - Quote
perhaps consider dropping the prices of navy/integrated drones .. cheaper T2 drones would be nice too mind.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
458
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:40:00 -
[469] - Quote
Yumiko Shaku wrote:Drak Fel wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote: well dont pull in your FB's everytime you see bombs in the air. FB's are more durable taking the damage with their mwd's off then after the wave to pull them in to rep with your cap armor reppers etc...
currently it takes between 14 and 17 bombs to kill a FB dependent on skills. with the HP increase it puts that at 28-34 bombs, which to even an experienced bomber FC is a much harder task to do especially in a time constraint. its also much rarer to see a bomber fleet with more than 3 squads, meaning to kill FB's after the HP buff means it'll take upwards of 2+ minutes to do.
A Supercarrier pilot will have to literally be afk to loose FB's before pulling them in and/or repping them back to full health.
Halfway descent bomber pilots wait until the structure is reinforced/dead and supers start to pull bombers in to bomb (actually if it died they return whether or not you told them to) and it currently does not take that many bombs to kill them I assure you. Also, who doesn't AFK while grinding in their super? Do you know how boring that **** is? lol He's in a scrub alliance who has to be vigilant because they're scared the big bad phage will come kill them.
yahh scrub alliance... go to dotlan and click the alliance tab You see my alliance? yes
go to zkillboard and check top alliances in the past 3 days... You see my alliance? yes
wheres yours? no where. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:42:00 -
[470] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Sorry Fozzie this change sucks for anybody grinding structures, I'm 100% not 'doing it wrong', you're nerfing the supers DPS output and forcing them to tank less so putting them in more danger while increasing the weapon system risk because CCP refuses to do anything about ISBoxer since its feeding them subs, which amounts to every fight haviing 40+ bombers being ran by 6 guys (totally ok though right, i mean any kind of botting that feeds subs to our little icelandic company can't be all bad right?).
So try not to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you seem to have zero understanding of the current 0.0 meta.
Stop adjusting the things for how you think the game will be played and adjust it based on how its actually being played.
People are actually using ISboxer to death, and you are actually making the supercarriers more vulnerable to it. I guess the end result is supposed to be everybody grinding structures in bombers because you're seriously limiting the options on what people are willing to deal with as far as structure grinding goes.
Why can't you guys get that SOV sucks to deal with, you used to be players, how hard is it to just not screw with the things that allow us to limp through this terrible set of game mechanics without making it worse? heaven forbid you need to run a small antisupport wing to fend off bombers
hint: bombers need to come within 30km of whatever they are bombing |
|
Gothikia
Regeneration
270
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:43:00 -
[471] - Quote
These changes should have been made years ago. About time, and good work. <3 Gothie |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
343
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:43:00 -
[472] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Yumiko Shaku wrote:Drak Fel wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote: well dont pull in your FB's everytime you see bombs in the air. FB's are more durable taking the damage with their mwd's off then after the wave to pull them in to rep with your cap armor reppers etc...
currently it takes between 14 and 17 bombs to kill a FB dependent on skills. with the HP increase it puts that at 28-34 bombs, which to even an experienced bomber FC is a much harder task to do especially in a time constraint. its also much rarer to see a bomber fleet with more than 3 squads, meaning to kill FB's after the HP buff means it'll take upwards of 2+ minutes to do.
A Supercarrier pilot will have to literally be afk to loose FB's before pulling them in and/or repping them back to full health.
Halfway descent bomber pilots wait until the structure is reinforced/dead and supers start to pull bombers in to bomb (actually if it died they return whether or not you told them to) and it currently does not take that many bombs to kill them I assure you. Also, who doesn't AFK while grinding in their super? Do you know how boring that **** is? lol He's in a scrub alliance who has to be vigilant because they're scared the big bad phage will come kill them. yahh scrub alliance... go to dotlan and click the alliance tab You see my alliance? yes go to zkillboard and check top alliances in the past 3 days... You see my alliance? yes wheres yours? no where.
llllol
quote before edit |
Jatok Reknar
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:45:00 -
[473] - Quote
From the dev-blog:
"we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries"
Could someone clarify what level of each racial drone specialization skills will be required to use my beloved T2 sentries? Would level 4 be sufficient or would it require level 5?
As a fairly new player (started playing less than a year ago) and having sunk a ton of my combat skillpoints into drones to field T2 sentries, I am wondering if I would lose that ability after this update since I don't have high enough racial specialization skills.
|
dantes inferno
Pulsar Inc. Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:47:00 -
[474] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Sorry Fozzie this change sucks for anybody grinding structures, I'm 100% not 'doing it wrong', you're nerfing the supers DPS output and forcing them to tank less so putting them in more danger while increasing the weapon system risk because CCP refuses to do anything about ISBoxer since its feeding them subs, which amounts to every fight haviing 40+ bombers being ran by 6 guys (totally ok though right, i mean any kind of botting that feeds subs to our little icelandic company can't be all bad right?).
So try not to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you seem to have zero understanding of the current 0.0 meta.
Stop adjusting the things for how you think the game will be played and adjust it based on how its actually being played.
People are actually using ISboxer to death, and you are actually making the supercarriers more vulnerable to it. I guess the end result is supposed to be everybody grinding structures in bombers because you're seriously limiting the options on what people are willing to deal with as far as structure grinding goes.
Why can't you guys get that SOV sucks to deal with, you used to be players, how hard is it to just not screw with the things that allow us to limp through this terrible set of game mechanics without making it worse?
It's ok dude, you will still be able to share accounts and multibox supers/titans. It's not like this **** is against EULA, isn't it ? |
Drak Fel
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
43
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:47:00 -
[475] - Quote
Yumiko Shaku wrote:CCP Fozzie, So with the upcoming changes, mostly the one I want to ask about is the reduction of total drones from 20 to 10, with the way you are doing the bonuses as a 100% damage bonus to fighter and fighter bomber damage, is there a reason we can't see the return of standard drones to supercarriers minus the 100% role bonus effectively making it as useful as a regular carrier when using sub capital drones?
And if not, can we please have a new capital drone that are micro ventures, because mining supers where amusing ^.^
Supercarriers that are as useful a normal carrier for something other than grinding structures? That's crazy talk. |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:50:00 -
[476] - Quote
Just to ask the question again:
Is the skill requirement for Light/Med drones changing from Scout Drone Operation to Combat Drone operation skills?
Currently you need to train Scout Drone Operation (distance) to get the T2 drones, it sounds like that's getting changed to the new skills that combat drone operation is getting split into.
Did I misunderstand? |
Obtuse Okanata
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:51:00 -
[477] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:It should take multiple waves. Do you know how frustrating it is to save up 30 billion isk for what is supposed to be one of the most powerful ships in the game just to have some guy with isboxer, or a handful of guys, come along in several 25 million isk ships, drop a few bombs and leave you with no way to apply any DPS whatsoever?
Do you know how frustrating it is for little fellas to get invaded by the big boys and their big boy toys with the iwin buttons in tow? (archons for the uninitiated)
At least before when the supercap blob is out burning down your space you could at least bomb their fbs
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:54:00 -
[478] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Tippia wrote:If I were to guess, that would probably be the thing: with additions such as faction DDAs being made, we'd start seeing ships doing exactly that and also being able to deliver a couple hundred more with regular guns on top. So the top end would have to be toned down a bit to not make all the 125mb bandwidth ships (including the Ishtar) downright silly.
So in essence, to allow room for further general buffs, the baseline has to be adjusted a bit downwards to ensure that the end result remains somewhat sane. You seem to be assuming the hypothetical faction DDAs will be somehow stronger than officer ones (930dps max)... Moreover, why mention gun dps at all, dont most ships have a drone bay? No, I just assume that they'll be stronger than the T2 ones and will be in much more widespread use, which will lead to a general increase in drone-specific damage output GÇö a development they might want to tone down somewhat. I also assume that the drone ships will mount guns in addition to their drones (but mainly devote their module slots to boosting the drones rather than the guns), which would let them reach pretty silly damage outputs GÇö the pre-nerf Domi was a good example of this. Yes, most ships have drone bays, but most ships don't rely on them or spend slots boosting them because that would make their main weaponry much weaker and thus be a waste of slots.
So what you have talked yourself into: 800 dps (now) - OK 760 dps (after change+-) - OK, we need this because of the dda 930 dps (officer dda now) - OK 800-930 dps (faction dda) - SILLY, NERF
You may want to explain where you see silly output, otherwise you are arguing that a , saay 900 dps factionDDA ship with saaay 300dps guns has to be curbed, but a 1100dps factionsink lazor ship with 300dps drones does not.
|
Thoric Frosthammer
Lost Society Get Off My Lawn
6
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:54:00 -
[479] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:[quote=Obil Que] Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed.
"Yes there's now a couple of supers that are awesome without refitting, and there's a lot of you who are sitting in supers that are now substandard through no fault of your own, but learn to refit your peon supers scrubs, and bow to your master the wyvern/aeon"
There, fixed that for you. Not much of a satisfactory answer when translated to English from devtalk, is it.
There used to be a reason you'd pick either Nyx or Aeon. One was tanky one was spanky. Now one is both and the other is, basically, neither.
Rather than just dismiss it, as you are often want to do, how about just spreading a tiny amount of love the Nyx's way so that there's still a reason to pursue it for those who enjoy a particular play style.
Evidently you didn't learn from the Archon. I sort of despair for your analytical skills. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:56:00 -
[480] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote: So what you have talked yourself into: 800 dps (now) - OK 760 dps (after change+-) - OK, we need this because of the dda 930 dps (officer dda now) - OK 800-930 dps (faction dda) - SILLY, NERF
You may want to explain where you see silly output, otherwise you are arguing that a , saay 900 dps factionDDA ship with saaay 300dps guns has to be curbed, but a 1100dps factionsink lazor ship with 300dps drones does not.
ah yes the officer DDA, a common sight in new eden |
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Dierdra Vaal
Interstellar Stargate Syndicate
294
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:56:00 -
[481] - Quote
My only concern is this:
The goal of the (regular) drone changes is to make Amarr and Caldari drones a better alternative, as currently only Gallente drones (when you want max damage) or Minmatar drones (when you want speed/tracking) are used. However, Gallente will still provide the best damage, and Minmatar still the best speed/tracking. Even if the Amarr and Caldari drones are better than they currently are, won't players still simply choose Gallente when they want to go for damage and Minmatar when they need to shoot fast things? In which realistic circumstances would a player choose the Caldari drones over Gallente ones?
I am worried that the change will not actually make the Amarr and Caldari drones more used, and that people will continue to focus on the drones that provide the best performance for a specific task, rather than a compromise.
Veto #205 * * * Director Emeritus at EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
458
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:58:00 -
[482] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Sorry Fozzie this change sucks for anybody grinding structures, I'm 100% not 'doing it wrong', you're nerfing the supers DPS output and forcing them to tank less so putting them in more danger while increasing the weapon system risk because CCP refuses to do anything about ISBoxer since its feeding them subs, which amounts to every fight haviing 40+ bombers being ran by 6 guys (totally ok though right, i mean any kind of botting that feeds subs to our little icelandic company can't be all bad right?).
So try not to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you seem to have zero understanding of the current 0.0 meta.
Stop adjusting the things for how you think the game will be played and adjust it based on how its actually being played.
People are actually using ISboxer to death, and you are actually making the supercarriers more vulnerable to it. I guess the end result is supposed to be everybody grinding structures in bombers because you're seriously limiting the options on what people are willing to deal with as far as structure grinding goes.
Why can't you guys get that SOV sucks to deal with, you used to be players, how hard is it to just not screw with the things that allow us to limp through this terrible set of game mechanics without making it worse?
Wow grath, are you really this averse to having a subcap support fleet for supercap grinding? the HP in FB's are being doubled AND you're getting the Drone Durability Boost too, alongside an improved speed boost to FB's with Nav Computers too.
Can CCP coddle you more? how about a personal ship for you that flips sov and ihub ownership on your whim? tbh we're getting closer and closer to that.
you have literally zero areas to have issues. You moan about having to drop 2 lows in ur SC's to keep the damage levels when you're ships can still easily stay well above 30 million EHP. If you're having issues staying alive with 30m+ ehp then 2 more lows for tank is NOT going to help you. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:58:00 -
[483] - Quote
seriously though gonna be an unoriginal git here and also ask for the specific rank of racial drone skill you need for sentries
this is kinda important to know now so we can make sure our shit works post-patch |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
344
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 16:59:00 -
[484] - Quote
Suggestion: Introduce a Slot 9 Drone Damage implant? Turret users have the option of an SS-90x implant. Considering that Supercarrier pilots have no useful 9th slot implant, this would actually see a lot of use! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20423
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:03:00 -
[485] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Because in a PvE environment, heavies can't be used because the AI implemented to enhance "the player experience" 2 years ago chews them to pieces in seconds. So the next step, after people are forced to use sentries, is to wreck them, with the Omni demolition, and now this.
goons use heavies nearly exclusively for pve without problems sounds like you're just bad at this game To be fair, he's thinking about mission and GÇö as always GÇö incorrectly generalising those to mean all PvE. Not that it changes anything, since back when he thought heavies were better for missions, they weren't. So the badness is pretty constant. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
346
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:10:00 -
[486] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Sorry Fozzie this change sucks for anybody grinding structures, I'm 100% not 'doing it wrong', you're nerfing the supers DPS output and forcing them to tank less so putting them in more danger while increasing the weapon system risk because CCP refuses to do anything about ISBoxer since its feeding them subs, which amounts to every fight haviing 40+ bombers being ran by 6 guys (totally ok though right, i mean any kind of botting that feeds subs to our little icelandic company can't be all bad right?).
So try not to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you seem to have zero understanding of the current 0.0 meta.
Stop adjusting the things for how you think the game will be played and adjust it based on how its actually being played.
People are actually using ISboxer to death, and you are actually making the supercarriers more vulnerable to it. I guess the end result is supposed to be everybody grinding structures in bombers because you're seriously limiting the options on what people are willing to deal with as far as structure grinding goes.
Why can't you guys get that SOV sucks to deal with, you used to be players, how hard is it to just not screw with the things that allow us to limp through this terrible set of game mechanics without making it worse? Wow grath, are you really this averse to having a subcap support fleet for supercap grinding? the HP in FB's are being doubled AND you're getting the Drone Durability Boost too, alongside an improved speed boost to FB's with Nav Computers too. Can CCP coddle you more? how about a personal ship for you that flips sov and ihub ownership on your whim? tbh we're getting closer and closer to that. you have literally zero areas to have issues. You moan about having to drop 2 lows in ur SC's to keep the damage levels when you're ships can still easily stay well above 30 million EHP. If you're having issues staying alive with 30m+ ehp then 2 more lows for tank is NOT going to help you.
Stop pulling numbers out of your ass. Nyxes with two fewer tank mods fit will have anywhere from 16-22m EHP, depending on available bonuses.
Also stopping bombers isn't as simple as having a support fleet on grid. You can't reliably hinder bombers unless you have a ton of bubbles up on your fighter bombers and a significant portion of your subcap fleet dedicated to instapopping ships like Legions or Muninns (and by virtue of stacking up on a niche ship like Muninns you weaken your fleet in other ways leaving you much more susceptible in other ways). Even then you can still successfully bomb a lot of drones if you're willing to sacrifice a few cheap stealth bombers. With that said, the fibo HP buff is good and I hope this will bring a better balance between stealth bombers and fighter bombers. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:10:00 -
[487] - Quote
Guys..
All you need to know for what levers of Racial Drone Spec for T2 Sentries is found right down with T2 Heavies. They are bringing the sentries in line with the heavies, so it'll be Drone Spec IV.
This only makes sense as both Heavies and Sentries are "Battleship" grade weapons, and will have the same requirements. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20423
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:10:00 -
[488] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:So what you have talked yourself into: 800 dps (now) - OK 760 dps (after change+-) - OK, we need this because of the dda 930 dps (officer dda now) - OK 800-930 dps (faction dda) - SILLY, NERF Nope. The 800 now is not ok; the 930 with oDDAs now is not ok; the 760 is not what we'll see after the change.
What I'm saying is that averages will go up as more effective and yet not hilariously rare DDAs will be available. To keep those averages from rising when what they want is for them to go down, they bring everything down a bit more than might be expected.
Quote:You may want to explain where you see silly output In the average 1200+ DPS that those drone boats can deliver. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:11:00 -
[489] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Guys..
All you need to know for what levers of Racial Drone Spec for T2 Sentries is found right down with T2 Heavies. They are bringing the sentries in line with the heavies, so it'll be Drone Spec IV.
This only makes sense as both Heavies and Sentries are "Battleship" grade weapons, and will have the same requirements. this is a reasonable assumption but if it's all the same to you I'd like to hear it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2349
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:12:00 -
[490] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
Wow grath, are you really this averse to having a subcap support fleet for supercap grinding? the HP in FB's are being doubled AND you're getting the Drone Durability Boost too, alongside an improved speed boost to FB's with Nav Computers too.
So it takes 2 squads of ISboxed bombers instead of one? Great, glad 2 guys can easily neuter a trillion isk without much effort, sure am glad ISboxer exists.
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Can CCP coddle you more? how about a personal ship for you that flips sov and ihub ownership on your whim? tbh we're getting closer and closer to that.
Sure, that would be infinitely better than the current sov system. Please, sit here and tell me that anything that makes the current sov system more of a grind or more effort is a good thing. Its not, it sucks, its the worst idea in game design in the history of game design, its more mind numbingly boring than mining and its a core 'feature' that players have been rage complaining about since its implementation. In fact, Fozzie used to complain right along with the rest of us in PL.
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:you have literally zero areas to have issues. You moan about having to drop 2 lows in ur SC's to keep the damage levels when you're ships can still easily stay well above 30 million EHP. If you're having issues staying alive with 30m+ ehp then 2 more lows for tank is NOT going to help you.
Yea, Way to make it all about me. What about the little guy who's alliance has collectively 4 supers. I'm sure he's super excited about the idea of having to make himself more vulnerable just so he can reach his current DPS potentials on TQ. That sure is great for him, I mean my alliance can just stay full tank fit and not care really, whats a few seconds when you have 50 supers grinding a thing right, but to a lesser entity, this change is a swift kick in the nuts, here, have this craptasitc sov system, oh, and we're going to make you either take longer or tank less, both of which are likely to attract the attention of super hunters while you're working.
Sure am glad we're making it easier on the new guy to break into 0.0. Guess he should just use stealth bombers to grind sov like the rest of the game.
CCP Fozzie wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: increasing the weapon system risk Fighter Bombers are getting double base HP, plus the effects of the Drone Durability skill. This makes them less vulnerable to bombs, not more vulnerable.
What does that matter to ISboxer? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:13:00 -
[491] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote: Also stopping bombers isn't as simple as having a support fleet on grid. You can't reliably hinder bombers unless you have a ton of bubbles up on your fighter bombers and a significant portion of your subcap fleet dedicated to instapopping ships like Legions or Muninns (and by virtue of stacking up on a niche ship like Muninns you weaken your fleet in other ways leaving you much more susceptible in other ways). Even then you can still successfully bomb a lot of drones if you're willing to sacrifice a few cheap stealth bombers. With that said, the fibo HP buff is good and I hope this will bring a better balance between stealth bombers and fighter bombers.
so instead of having to tailor your fleet comp a bit and weigh the pros and cons of having one type of ship to the expense of others fleets should be uniformly composed of one ship type that is invulnerable to anything other than the same ship type |
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1717
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:14:00 -
[492] - Quote
At least you could be a painful little poop before with bombers against the supercap armada and the numerous hictors/dictors at the SBUs, but now you've buffed even that away. Thanks CCP Rise, taking more and more tools away from the little guys.
I will go sob in my corner quietly now. |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:17:00 -
[493] - Quote
Another question:
It seems like this might be the first move to get drones to line up with the other weapon systems (ie. lvl3 small > medium, lvl3 medium > large). Do you intend to enforce that same progression for drones in the future?
Also, since I'm very concerned about one of the potential changes I'll repeat it again:
Is the skill requirement for Light/Med drones changing from Scout Drone Operation to Combat Drone operation skills?
Currently you need to train Scout Drone Operation (distance) to get the T2 drones, it sounds like that's getting changed to the new skills that combat drone operation is getting split into. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:17:00 -
[494] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: I mean my alliance can just stay full tank fit and not care really, whats a few seconds when you have 50 supers grinding a thing
if this is the case then why are you posting in this thread
you couldn't be concern trolling, that would never happen on eveo |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9583
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:19:00 -
[495] - Quote
One more quick update before I go home. I'll do another more comprehensive pass on the thread tomorrow.
For the racial Drone Specialization skill requirements, we're going to be reducing the requirements for all T2 drones to level 1 of the skill.
That means for example Gallente Drone Spec level 1 will unlock Hobgoblin IIs, Hammerhead IIs, Ogre IIs, and Garde IIs (assuming you have the requisite T1 drone skills at level 5). This brings the drone spec skills more in line with the rest of our T2 weapon specialization skills. Training the skill beyond level 1 will still be advisable in order to get the extra damage boost, of course. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:20:00 -
[496] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:One more quick update before I go home. I'll do another more comprehensive pass on the thread tomorrow.
For the racial Drone Specialization skill requirements, we're going to be reducing the requirements for all T2 drones to level 1 of the skill.
That means for example Gallente Drone Spec level 1 will unlock Hobgoblin IIs, Hammerhead IIs, Ogre IIs, and Garde IIs (assuming you have the requisite T1 drone skills at level 5). This brings the drone spec skills more in line with the rest of our T2 weapon specialization skills. Training the skill beyond level 1 will still be advisable in order to get the extra damage boost, of course. So, e.g., to unlock Garde IIs I'd need sentry drone op to 5 and gallente spec to 1? |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2349
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:20:00 -
[497] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: I mean my alliance can just stay full tank fit and not care really, whats a few seconds when you have 50 supers grinding a thing
if this is the case then why are you posting in this thread
Because its a stupid change that hurts anybody who doesn't have an established supercapital force?
Because it helps to further stifle the 0.0 environment by further forcing new groups to rely on an existing umbrella?
Because any change that promotes the botting that is ISboxer is bad, and this does exactly that?
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Klng Star
Emerald Inc. Easily Excited
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:21:00 -
[498] - Quote
Not a fan of sentry drones needing the race skills to regain lost damage unless the multiplier wants to drop from a 5x to a 2x |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:24:00 -
[499] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We're not going to be expanding the modifiers on drones any more than this for one expansion, as we need to make sure that we can keep track of how the changes we're making has affected behavior. All of those are options for the future, however. Thanks for the reply.
I hope as time moves forwards you will reconsider adding some of it to the summer expansion, at least the inclusion of SOE faction mods [no real effect on anything, aside from keeping factions in line with the stuff use and sell], and sorting out the Rigs.
The Rigs issue has always bugged me. As it stands now with the Sentry rig it would be like having a Rig that ONLY affects Large Railguns, and no other Hybrids.. Just kinda off. Universal drone damage rig would be nice, but honestly given that there is already the sentry, either change the Sentry one to a Universal and call it a day, or add one's for the other sizes.. Personally I'd lean towards the more rigs, while a Universal would be sweet, making the Drone Damage rigs Specific to the drone size, would make things more.. interesting.. Besides.. Sentries have been the ones people have considered OP.. and now they still have a Damage Rig, Damage Lows, etc.. Bringing the heavies/mediums/lights in line with it now during the drone balance pass only makes sense to me. |
Jatok Reknar
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:24:00 -
[500] - Quote
[quote=Promiscuous Female So, e.g., to unlock Garde IIs I'd need sentry drone op to 5 and gallente spec to 1?[/quote] Yes, sounds like it. And this makes perfect sense to me.
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stoicfaux
4360
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:26:00 -
[501] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:One more quick update before I go home. I'll do another more comprehensive pass on the thread tomorrow.
For the racial Drone Specialization skill requirements, we're going to be reducing the requirements for all T2 drones to level 1 of the skill.
That means for example Gallente Drone Spec level 1 will unlock Hobgoblin IIs, Hammerhead IIs, Ogre IIs, and Garde IIs (assuming you have the requisite T1 drone skills at level 5). This brings the drone spec skills more in line with the rest of our T2 weapon specialization skills. Training the skill beyond level 1 will still be advisable in order to get the extra damage boost, of course. So, e.g., to unlock Garde IIs I'd need sentry drone op to 5 and gallente spec to 1? And Light Drone Operation V for Hobgoblin IIs, Medium Drone Operaton V for Hammerhead IIs, and Heavy Drone Operation V for Ogre IIs.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Kazanir
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
475
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:27:00 -
[502] - Quote
Is the argument here, "You're nerfing super DPS so you should nerf sov structure EHP also?"
I think everyone can pretty much get behind that argument -- sov structure EHP is one of the worst current parts of EVE.
If the argument is, "nerfing supercarrier FiBo DPS is unjustified because of how vulnerable they are to stealth bombers" then that's a dumb argument, especially in light of the durability changes. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1357
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:27:00 -
[503] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Yes this is a relative buff to the Wyvern, and yes that is intentional. However it's much less of a buff than you seem to think it is because the vast majority of Supercarrier use is in situations where they can refit at will, allowing clever pilots to switch between high tank and high damage fits as needed.
I remember discussion about supers dying with ridiculously low amounts of damage taken just a few months ago, the presumed cause at the time was refitting of low-slots under heavy lag leaving the ship bugged. If you want to make the argument you are trying to make then you have to give us some assurance that refitting during combat is actually safe. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6807
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:28:00 -
[504] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Because its a stupid change that hurts anybody who doesn't have an established supercapital force?
Because it helps to further stifle the 0.0 environment by further forcing new groups to rely on an existing umbrella?
Because any change that promotes the botting that is ISboxer is bad, and this does exactly that?
your complaint is "isboxer exists" and "bombers exist"
these changes help by making isboxer bombers less effective on fbs sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:30:00 -
[505] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Because its a stupid change that hurts anybody who doesn't have an established supercapital force?
Because it helps to further stifle the 0.0 environment by further forcing new groups to rely on an existing umbrella?
Because any change that promotes the botting that is ISboxer is bad, and this does exactly that?
your complaint is "isboxer exists" and "bombers exist" these changes help by making isboxer bombers less effective on fbs sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo his argument, stripping away all his stupid concern troll nonsense, is that because isboxer exists, no amount of EHP increase on fighterbombers will be enough until they are INVULNERABLE to bombers
this is apparently supposed to be enough of a controversy that the entire change gets scrapped so aeon and nyx havers don't have to cross train to wyvern |
tsiliadora
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:33:00 -
[506] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: I mean my alliance can just stay full tank fit and not care really, whats a few seconds when you have 50 supers grinding a thing
if this is the case then why are you posting in this thread Because its a stupid change that hurts anybody who doesn't have an established supercapital force? Because it helps to further stifle the 0.0 environment by further forcing new groups to rely on an existing umbrella? Because any change that promotes the botting that is ISboxer is bad, and this does exactly that?
+1 |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:36:00 -
[507] - Quote
Klng Star wrote:Not a fan of sentry drones needing the race skills to regain lost damage unless the multiplier wants to drop from a 5x to a 2x No.
Welcome to Every other primary weapon system in Eve. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2352
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:38:00 -
[508] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Weaselior wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Because its a stupid change that hurts anybody who doesn't have an established supercapital force?
Because it helps to further stifle the 0.0 environment by further forcing new groups to rely on an existing umbrella?
Because any change that promotes the botting that is ISboxer is bad, and this does exactly that?
your complaint is "isboxer exists" and "bombers exist" these changes help by making isboxer bombers less effective on fbs sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo his argument, stripping away all his stupid concern troll nonsense, is that because isboxer exists, no amount of EHP increase on fighterbombers will be enough until they are INVULNERABLE to bombers this is apparently supposed to be enough of a controversy that the entire change gets scrapped so aeon and nyx havers don't have to cross train to wyvern
Not really, we'd rather just buy Wyverns in addition to our Nyx's and Aeons (many of us at this point have more than one super, we've had them for a while and we didn't stop doing the things that allowed us to afford the first one)
The bigger complaint that I'd rather they address is the sov system itself, and ISBoxer.
ISboxer allows one man/woman to flawlessly give X number of accounts the exact same command at the exact same time. How is that not an unfair advantage over other players? Thats pretty much the definition of when CCP should be doing something about it, only they wont because in this particular case its bringing them in a lot of money.
Which I'm realistically Ok with, but if they're going to let something like that exist in the game then they need to balance with that in mind.
A regular bomber fleet is much easier to deal with than an ISboxing fleet of bombers, and we do have to deal with those.
Coupled with the current situation of sov that everybody in the game hates, and you see a problem.
Any changes to anything that deal with sov should come with a corresponding reduction in sov structure hp. Its stupid that it takes what it does, and CCP is well aware at player displeasure with the current sov system. We've been waiting years for them to fix it and instead of making any adjustments to it at all they're instead dropping the DPS potentials of the main tool used to deal with the idiocy that is EVE Sov Warfare
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:50:00 -
[509] - Quote
Tippia wrote:What I'm saying is that averages will go up as more effective and yet not hilariously rare DDAs will be available. To keep those averages from rising when what they want is for them to go down, they bring everything down a bit more than might be expected. Quote:You may want to explain where you see silly output In the average 1200+ DPS that those drone boats can deliver.
That something needs to go down is your opinion.
A full flight of drones x4DA will get you 600-850dps a full broadside of guns/missiles x4DA will get you 500-1200dps, maybe we should nerf the guns/missiles instead, eh ? |
dantes inferno
Pulsar Inc. Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:50:00 -
[510] - Quote
Dude, stop complaining about isboxer while all your alliance is account sharing supers...come on... |
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mkint
1128
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:51:00 -
[511] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Weaselior wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Because its a stupid change that hurts anybody who doesn't have an established supercapital force?
Because it helps to further stifle the 0.0 environment by further forcing new groups to rely on an existing umbrella?
Because any change that promotes the botting that is ISboxer is bad, and this does exactly that?
your complaint is "isboxer exists" and "bombers exist" these changes help by making isboxer bombers less effective on fbs sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo his argument, stripping away all his stupid concern troll nonsense, is that because isboxer exists, no amount of EHP increase on fighterbombers will be enough until they are INVULNERABLE to bombers this is apparently supposed to be enough of a controversy that the entire change gets scrapped so aeon and nyx havers don't have to cross train to wyvern Not really, we'd rather just buy Wyverns in addition to our Nyx's and Aeons (many of us at this point have more than one super, we've had them for a while and we didn't stop doing the things that allowed us to afford the first one) The bigger complaint that I'd rather they address is the sov system itself, and ISBoxer. ISboxer allows one man/woman to flawlessly give X number of accounts the exact same command at the exact same time. How is that not an unfair advantage over other players? Thats pretty much the definition of when CCP should be doing something about it, only they wont because in this particular case its bringing them in a lot of money. Which I'm realistically Ok with, but if they're going to let something like that exist in the game then they need to balance with that in mind. A regular bomber fleet is much easier to deal with than an ISboxing fleet of bombers, and we do have to deal with those. Coupled with the current situation of sov that everybody in the game hates, and you see a problem. Any changes to anything that deal with sov should come with a corresponding reduction in sov structure hp. Its stupid that it takes what it does, and CCP is well aware at player displeasure with the current sov system. We've been waiting years for them to fix it and instead of making any adjustments to it at all they're instead dropping the DPS potentials of the main tool used to deal with the idiocy that is EVE Sov Warfare sov won't ever change to something that doesn't suck. Bad sov -> big fleet fights -> news coverage -> more (temporary) income. And with CCP money is more important than the game. You'll never have a good sov mechanic, but you might get a different sov mechanic as long as it can be advertised in a way that increases subs. Apparently, they don't care about retention (retention stats in the game seem abysmal), as long as there's a quick shot of $. I don't know if it's a short term greed issue, or a resume fluffing issue, but it's endemic. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
251
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:54:00 -
[512] - Quote
Considering that isboxer bombers are the archenemy of supercarrier grinding forces, and that this change makes supers less vulnerable to bombers, this is a net buff in that regard. It is also the primary reason why I disagree with Grath and believe that these changes are a major buff to supercarriers, albeit a buff that helps some of the supers more than others.
It even goes past the straight HP/rep buff, since now you can fit drone nav computers to pull drones way faster than before, and obviously the significant DPS bonus from having 2+ damage mods. It's not like people fit anything but cap right now when grinding safely so it's not a big deal to give up the slots for 4x DDA + 3 drone nav computers. In combat situations too this makes supercarriers at least somewhat able to rep their own drones, which makes them at least sort of useful in the big blob fights. I'll take more survivable drones than 20% DPS any day.
Biggest issue in my opinion is that this makes the Nyx even worse in comparison to its peers than it is currently. Aeon has the same tank with 3x DDA as a Nyx with a single DDA, which leaves you with the somewhat questionable advantage of being able to shield rep your bombers at range (compared to the far more useful cap range bonus). Hel is still bad compared to wyvern, but I guess that's to be expected. |
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
55
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:54:00 -
[513] - Quote
One thing I would like to point out/ask is it correct that dragonfly do more damage then firbolg?
In the spread sheet it has dragonfly with a damage multiplier of 4.2 where the firbolg have a damage multiplier of 3.5?
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2355
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 17:55:00 -
[514] - Quote
dantes inferno wrote:Dude, stop complaining about isboxer while all your alliance is account sharing supers...come on...
Glass houses, stones, ect.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:00:00 -
[515] - Quote
Steph Livingston wrote:Just to ask the question again:
Is the skill requirement for Light/Med drones changing from Scout Drone Operation to Combat Drone operation skills?
Currently you need to train Scout Drone Operation (distance) to get the T2 drones, it sounds like that's getting changed to the new skills that combat drone operation is getting split into.
Did I misunderstand?
You seem to be the only other person who is seeing this weirdness. The skills which will be the new prerequisites for the drones are not in any way related to the skill which currently unlocks them, therefore it will be entirely possible to lose access to T2 (or even T1) light/medium drones after the patch. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2355
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:00:00 -
[516] - Quote
Destoya wrote: Aeon has the same tank with 3x DDA as a Nyx with a single DDA,.
This nyx in this situation is already doing less damage than he is on TQ(it takes 2 DDA's and max skills to reach your current potential), so tell me again how its a buff Destoya.
Nyxes will be significantly lower in DPS because they're the lowest tanked super as is (a common myth is that its the Hel but that hasn't been the case for a while now) so they either live in glass cannon mode or do less DPS than currently on TQ.
Sure am glad i sold that Nyx for an Erebus then sold the Erebus and got an Aeon. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
351
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:01:00 -
[517] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:One more quick update before I go home. I'll do another more comprehensive pass on the thread tomorrow.
For the racial Drone Specialization skill requirements, we're going to be reducing the requirements for all T2 drones to level 1 of the skill.
That means for example Gallente Drone Spec level 1 will unlock Hobgoblin IIs, Hammerhead IIs, Ogre IIs, and Garde IIs (assuming you have the requisite T1 drone skills at level 5). This brings the drone spec skills more in line with the rest of our T2 weapon specialization skills. Training the skill beyond level 1 will still be advisable in order to get the extra damage boost, of course. Except instead of two weapon specialization skills, drones have four...and most drone users (especially sentry users) will use all types...
This is kind of like requiring a different specialization for each damage type of missile. Not really helping perception of drones as a skill-heavy weapon system.
Plus, WTF is with the nerfed falloff on Curators? |
ctrlc ctrlv
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:05:00 -
[518] - Quote
Instead Fozzie and CCP try to fix sov mechanics which all players demands all over the past years nerfs the only ship that can do a proper dps to sov structures.
Just want it to say that not all alliances have 250 supers to grid sov.
If you are a small alliance with small amount of supers u need tank + dps + the ability to gtfo asap from the field. With 30% less dps u give the enemy blob a lot of time to response.
10 days ago a super fleet was hitting a station the enemy droped them and manage to tackle 1nyx. He tanked 7DD from titan blob and at the end he managed to get out.Was he gonna tank the same if he had dda on lows probably not...
Nerfing supers for 3d time over the past years and on the other hand ignoring current sov mechanics its something that personally cannot understand. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2356
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:06:00 -
[519] - Quote
Also please let this be about some ridiculous Valkyrie tie in to keep it consistent with a 10 v 10 match or some nonsense like that. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:07:00 -
[520] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote: This is kind of like requiring a different specialization for each damage type of missile. Not really helping perception of drones as a skill-heavy weapon system.
not really, each type of drone has its own damage application window
it's like requiring a different specialization for each type of short and long range weapon system for each type of gun
oh wait that's how shit is now for guns |
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mkint
1130
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:09:00 -
[521] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Steph Livingston wrote:Just to ask the question again:
Is the skill requirement for Light/Med drones changing from Scout Drone Operation to Combat Drone operation skills?
Currently you need to train Scout Drone Operation (distance) to get the T2 drones, it sounds like that's getting changed to the new skills that combat drone operation is getting split into.
Did I misunderstand? You seem to be the only other person who is seeing this weirdness. The skills which will be the new prerequisites for the drones are not in any way related to the skill which currently unlocks them, therefore it will be entirely possible to lose access to T2 (or even T1) light/medium drones after the patch. EDIT: I should also probably point out the confusing language in the original post - "This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill." "The Scout Drone Operation skill is being renamed GÇ£Drone AvionicsGÇ¥ [...] The effects, prerequisites and unlocks provided by these skills will not be changing." These statements are directly contradictory. What exactly is happening with these skills, Fozzie? wtf CCP? Is it getting changed? What % of drone users have this at lvl 5? How many people are going to lose access to the simplest of the T2 drones? And it's a higher rank skill, driving up the SP requirements by 50%. You're just screwing over everyone with the summer expansion, aren't you CCP? One bad announcement after another. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20425
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:13:00 -
[522] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Except instead of two weapon specialization skills, drones have four...and most drone users (especially sentry users) will use all types... Actually, most weapons have six: small, medium, large, each in a short-range and a long-range specialisation. The four drone sizes, meanwhile, only get four spec skills. Sure, they're by damage type rather than by size, but it's still fewer skills (and a lot less SP). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
46
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:15:00 -
[523] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Plus, WTF is with the nerfed falloff on Curators?
It's ~flavor~. With these changes, Curators are pulse lasers firing Scorch, Gardes are blasters firing something like Null, Bouncers are arty firing Fusion, and Wardens are rail guns firing one of those mid-range ammos. Well, sorta, given that they all do a single damage type; that's the best analogy I can come up with, anyway. |
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:15:00 -
[524] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:One more quick update before I go home. I'll do another more comprehensive pass on the thread tomorrow.
For the racial Drone Specialization skill requirements, we're going to be reducing the requirements for all T2 drones to level 1 of the skill.
That means for example Gallente Drone Spec level 1 will unlock Hobgoblin IIs, Hammerhead IIs, Ogre IIs, and Garde IIs (assuming you have the requisite T1 drone skills at level 5). This brings the drone spec skills more in line with the rest of our T2 weapon specialization skills. Training the skill beyond level 1 will still be advisable in order to get the extra damage boost, of course. Except instead of two weapon specialization skills, drones have four...and most drone users (especially sentry users) will use all types... This is kind of like requiring a different specialization for each damage type of missile. Not really helping perception of drones as a skill-heavy weapon system. Plus, WTF is with the nerfed falloff on Curators?
SOMEONE ELSE FINALLY SAW IT! (I pointed this out like 20 pages ago and have been largely ignored on this issue since.) |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:15:00 -
[525] - Quote
mkint wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Steph Livingston wrote:Just to ask the question again:
Is the skill requirement for Light/Med drones changing from Scout Drone Operation to Combat Drone operation skills?
Currently you need to train Scout Drone Operation (distance) to get the T2 drones, it sounds like that's getting changed to the new skills that combat drone operation is getting split into.
Did I misunderstand? You seem to be the only other person who is seeing this weirdness. The skills which will be the new prerequisites for the drones are not in any way related to the skill which currently unlocks them, therefore it will be entirely possible to lose access to T2 (or even T1) light/medium drones after the patch. EDIT: I should also probably point out the confusing language in the original post - "This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill." "The Scout Drone Operation skill is being renamed GÇ£Drone AvionicsGÇ¥ [...] The effects, prerequisites and unlocks provided by these skills will not be changing." These statements are directly contradictory. What exactly is happening with these skills, Fozzie? wtf CCP? Is it getting changed? What % of drone users have this at lvl 5? How many people are going to lose access to the simplest of the T2 drones? And it's a higher rank skill, driving up the SP requirements by 50%. You're just screwing over everyone with the summer expansion, aren't you CCP? One bad announcement after another.
Either this post was awfully written or Fozzie doesn't actually understand which skill it is that currently unlocks the T2 drones... |
stoicfaux
4360
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:22:00 -
[526] - Quote
mkint wrote: wtf CCP? Is it getting changed? What % of drone users have this at lvl 5? How many people are going to lose access to the simplest of the T2 drones? And it's a higher rank skill, driving up the SP requirements by 50%. You're just screwing over everyone with the summer expansion, aren't you CCP? One bad announcement after another.
It's intentional, justified by the closure in gap between T1/Faction and T2 performance.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:27:00 -
[527] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:mkint wrote: wtf CCP? Is it getting changed? What % of drone users have this at lvl 5? How many people are going to lose access to the simplest of the T2 drones? And it's a higher rank skill, driving up the SP requirements by 50%. You're just screwing over everyone with the summer expansion, aren't you CCP? One bad announcement after another.
It's intentional, and seemingly justified by the closure in gap between T1/Faction and T2 performance.
The racial drone skills being required for T2 sentries is an entirely different matter. Read my post a few comments up about the contradictory language in the post. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
700
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:29:00 -
[528] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:One more quick update before I go home. I'll do another more comprehensive pass on the thread tomorrow.
For the racial Drone Specialization skill requirements, we're going to be reducing the requirements for all T2 drones to level 1 of the skill.
That means for example Gallente Drone Spec level 1 will unlock Hobgoblin IIs, Hammerhead IIs, Ogre IIs, and Garde IIs (assuming you have the requisite T1 drone skills at level 5). This brings the drone spec skills more in line with the rest of our T2 weapon specialization skills. Training the skill beyond level 1 will still be advisable in order to get the extra damage boost, of course.
well i certainly hope drone control range will be responded too...
25km base drone control range .... is pitiful E-war skill = 15km + scout drone op of 25km + base of 25km = 60km ... how are you supposed to use sentries beyond 60km's exactly???????
having to use DLA's that add 24km and use 55cpu + high slot is a hefty penalty compared to using guns or missiles.. a Talos can easily do about 100km's before needing a sebo Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
mkint
1130
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:30:00 -
[529] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:mkint wrote: wtf CCP? Is it getting changed? What % of drone users have this at lvl 5? How many people are going to lose access to the simplest of the T2 drones? And it's a higher rank skill, driving up the SP requirements by 50%. You're just screwing over everyone with the summer expansion, aren't you CCP? One bad announcement after another.
It's intentional, and seemingly justified by the closure in gap between T1/Faction and T2 performance. Come again? Are you saying it makes sense that it takes 50% extra SP (combat drone operation is a rank 2 skill, scout drone operation is a rank 1 skill) for just one drone size and you get even LESS out of training it? It currently takes 2 ranks of level 5 skills to unlock T2 lights and mediums. It will now take 5 ranks of level 5 skills. For even LESS benefit. And that somehow makes sense to you? Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
iskflakes
902
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:33:00 -
[530] - Quote
Destoya wrote:Biggest issue in my opinion is that this makes the Nyx even worse in comparison to its peers than it is currently. Aeon has the same tank with 3x DDA as a Nyx with a single DDA, which leaves you with the somewhat questionable advantage of being able to shield rep your bombers at range (compared to the far more useful cap range bonus). Hel is still bad compared to wyvern, but I guess that's to be expected.
This is so true. The Nyx now has no unique quality when compared to the aeon. The aeon's extra low slot, far superior tank and better hull bonuses just make it so much more appealing than the Nyx (now that it can match the Nyx damage in the situations where damage is valuable.)
The changes to fighter bomber EHP are needed, because the previous situation was utterly ridiculous. However, the changes to base damage are not needed. Base supercap damage is not excessive, and requiring drone damage amps to return to reasonable levels hurts supers like the Nyx a lot more than the Aeon, which can spare multiple slots and still maintain a superior tank.
To be clear, neither of these supers will be better off after the changes, but the aeon will be substantially better relative to the nyx. - |
|
Hunter Arngrahm
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:46:00 -
[531] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:Chris Winter wrote: Except instead of two weapon specialization skills, drones have four...and most drone users (especially sentry users) will use all types...
This is kind of like requiring a different specialization for each damage type of missile. Not really helping perception of drones as a skill-heavy weapon system.
Plus, WTF is with the nerfed falloff on Curators?
Someone else finally saw it! (I pointed this out like 20 pages ago and have been largely ignored on this issue since.)
This really does need fixed since they made Omnidirectional Tracking Links mostly give falloff. It means Curators will barely receive a bonus from them, and will be worse off as a result. Can a dev address this, please? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20426
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 18:58:00 -
[532] - Quote
mkint wrote:stoicfaux wrote:It's intentional, and seemingly justified by the closure in gap between T1/Faction and T2 performance. Come again? Are you saying it makes sense that it takes 50% extra SP (combat drone operation is a rank 2 skill, scout drone operation is a rank 1 skill) for just one drone size and you get even LESS out of training it? It currently takes 2 ranks of level 5 skills to unlock T2 lights and mediums. It will now take 5 ranks of level 5 skills. For even LESS benefit. And that somehow makes sense to you? I can't remember seeing the ranks for the new skills, so we don't know the specifics yet, but yes, it's entirely possible that you'll need more ranks to unlock all the drones.
Right now (for small + medium) we have:
Drones V (rank 1) + Scout Drone Ops V (rank 1) + 4+ù Drone Spec II (rank 5) = 540k SP.
If I were to guess (assuming they want a progression through increasingly higher ranks), I'd say that we're going to see something like this after the change: Drones V (rank 1) + Light Drones V (rank 1?) + Medium Drones V (rank 2?) + 4+ù Drone Spec I (rank 5) = 1,029k SP.
GǪbut I'm being generous there and only assuming Rank 2 for medium drones, when it would be more natural for it to have Rank 3, which would mean it takes another 256k SP to unlock both sizes. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
stoicfaux
4361
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:02:00 -
[533] - Quote
mkint wrote:stoicfaux wrote:mkint wrote: wtf CCP? Is it getting changed? What % of drone users have this at lvl 5? How many people are going to lose access to the simplest of the T2 drones? And it's a higher rank skill, driving up the SP requirements by 50%. You're just screwing over everyone with the summer expansion, aren't you CCP? One bad announcement after another.
It's intentional, and seemingly justified by the closure in gap between T1/Faction and T2 performance. Come again? Are you saying it makes sense that it takes 50% extra SP (combat drone operation is a rank 2 skill, scout drone operation is a rank 1 skill) for just one drone size and you get even LESS out of training it? It currently takes 2 ranks of level 5 skills to unlock T2 lights and mediums. It will now take 5 ranks of level 5 skills. For even LESS benefit. And that somehow makes sense to you? I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm just saying that the dev blog made a big deal of intentionally closing the performance and skill gap between T1/Faction and T2 drones, and if Fozzie isn't worried about people losing access to their sentries over the racial drone skills, well then I, for one, get the fuzzy impression that CCP won't be handing out free skills.
The only possible reason for this being a bad idea is the people who didn't get the memo, e.g. the mission runner who is scram'd by NPCs only to realize that he can no longer use his T2 drones, or all the folks who rely on T2 drones in PvP.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:04:00 -
[534] - Quote
Even aside from the weirdness about splitting a skill which doesn't currently unlock the drones, they really need to clarify what each skill will give after the patch, because of the contradictory language within the blog post. |
tsiliadora
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:05:00 -
[535] - Quote
but is funny to see how behind the title "Giving drones an assist" we see a great sc's rebalance (yea i mean how nyx is gonna be a piece of ****, and wyvern the most powerfull). And the lol thing is that they say they will hear our opinion,as always did.
lets see how i will ends.................. |
Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:14:00 -
[536] - Quote
Why is it that you are making Faction Sentries in every way better than Tech 2 drones, they all have better tracking and more hp/shields/armor.
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Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:16:00 -
[537] - Quote
tsiliadora wrote: lets see how it will ends..................
I'm totally checked-out of this thread and am 99.99% confident that whatever I write about, and whatever I may hope and/or lobby for will never come to pass.
And that's okay--because I'm a Curator fan, I've already [effectively] received anywhere from a +6 to +8 bonus damage implant, depending on my level of Amarrian drone specialization come patch day. At level 4, it's a free +6 bonus damage implant, and at level 5, it's roughly equivalent to a +8 implant.
Meanwhile, in Carrier-land, it's time for DPS-a-holics to train [or improve their skills] for fighter Thannies!~
\o/
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stoicfaux
4363
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:25:00 -
[538] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:stoicfaux wrote:mkint wrote: wtf CCP? Is it getting changed? What % of drone users have this at lvl 5? How many people are going to lose access to the simplest of the T2 drones? And it's a higher rank skill, driving up the SP requirements by 50%. You're just screwing over everyone with the summer expansion, aren't you CCP? One bad announcement after another.
It's intentional, and seemingly justified by the closure in gap between T1/Faction and T2 performance. The racial drone skills being required for T2 sentries is an entirely different matter. Read my post a few comments up about the contradictory language in the post. So the fix is to change * "We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation" to * "We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation "Scout Drone Operation (to be renamed to Drone Avionics)" skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation"
edit: bleh. still not clear.
1. Combat Drone Operation skill is being removed. 2. Light Drone Operation (LDO) and Medium Drone Operation (MDO) are being added. 3. You will receive LDO and MDO for free with a skill level of your current Combat Drone Operation or Scout Drone Operation, whichever is higher. 4. Scout Drone Operation is being renamed to Drone Avionics. WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:26:00 -
[539] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:tsiliadora wrote: lets see how it will ends..................
I'm totally checked-out of this thread and am 99.99% confident that whatever I write about, and whatever I may hope and/or lobby for will never come to pass. And that's okay--because I'm a Curator fan, I've already [effectively] received anywhere from a +6 to +8 bonus damage implant, depending on my level of Amarrian drone specialization come patch day. At level 4, it's a free +6 bonus damage implant, and at level 5, it's roughly equivalent to a +8 implant. Meanwhile, in Carrier-land, it's time for DPS-a-holics to train [or improve their skills] for fighter Thannies!~ \o/
except you also lost 50% damage from sentry drone interfacing althought i think the base damage change puts curators ahead of previous damage. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4986
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:26:00 -
[540] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We understand the frustrations expressed by some about how these changes do not address the Drone UI, AI and/or Ewar Drones. These are important issues, but they require a different set of resources to solve and we are not going to hold back meaningful positive changes to wait until we can fix everything at once. Right click delete on EW drones sounds easy to me.
Seriously; what is the problem with just removing them? . |
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Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:30:00 -
[541] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:stoicfaux wrote:mkint wrote: wtf CCP? Is it getting changed? What % of drone users have this at lvl 5? How many people are going to lose access to the simplest of the T2 drones? And it's a higher rank skill, driving up the SP requirements by 50%. You're just screwing over everyone with the summer expansion, aren't you CCP? One bad announcement after another.
It's intentional, and seemingly justified by the closure in gap between T1/Faction and T2 performance. The racial drone skills being required for T2 sentries is an entirely different matter. Read my post a few comments up about the contradictory language in the post. So the fix is to change * "We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation" to * "We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation "Scout Drone Operation (to be renamed to Drone Avionics)" skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation" edit: bleh. still not clear.
The skill that they are splitting really makes sense to be the one that is split, there isn't really an easy way to go about fixing this.... |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:32:00 -
[542] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Right click delete on EW drones sounds easy to me. Seriously; what is the problem with just removing them? Whether you agree with having them in game or not, ECM drones are a big deal. They thought they could get away.-áNot today, it's not the way that this kid plays.
GRRR Gallente |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
596
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:36:00 -
[543] - Quote
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Right click delete on EW drones sounds easy to me. Seriously; what is the problem with just removing them? Whether you agree with having them in game or not, ECM drones are a big deal.
big deal in this case means overpowered, like all things ecm-related. remove pls. |
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:36:00 -
[544] - Quote
Nira Meru wrote: except you also lost 50% damage from sentry drone interfacing althought i think the base damage change puts curators ahead of previous damage.
Already took that into account when writing my previous post. With all skills super-maxed for sentry piloting, the new Curator line-up is buffed by 8.3% more DPS. |
Aerozzz
Afragoi Ltd
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:42:00 -
[545] - Quote
I don't understand why the change for the base FiBo damage couldn't be done nn a separate thread (both forum thread and development thread :P).
A change to the base FiBo damage isn't orthogonal to the role of the supercarriers. Imho, it makes much more sense to discuss such a change on a 'Balancing Capitals and Supercapitals" thread (which should be done at some point, sooner rather than later).
The changes regarding the skills that affect the Fighters and FiBos stats (durability / sharpshooting etc) are generally less 'intrusive' and solve a real issue (FiBos annihilated by ISBoxer single bomb runs), although they could also be postponed as well (I don't think anyone would complain :P).
You're changing too much in a single 'iteration' (from light drone DPS to the relative roles of SuperCarriers). It doesn't seem reasonable to me (and you're doing exactly what you said you didn't want to do -- changing too much stuff in one go, so that you cannot isolate and monitor the side-effects of each change on the TQ / the current meta). |
stoicfaux
4363
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:46:00 -
[546] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:stoicfaux wrote:mkint wrote: wtf CCP? Is it getting changed? What % of drone users have this at lvl 5? How many people are going to lose access to the simplest of the T2 drones? And it's a higher rank skill, driving up the SP requirements by 50%. You're just screwing over everyone with the summer expansion, aren't you CCP? One bad announcement after another.
It's intentional, and seemingly justified by the closure in gap between T1/Faction and T2 performance. The racial drone skills being required for T2 sentries is an entirely different matter. Read my post a few comments up about the contradictory language in the post. So the fix is to change * "We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation" to * "We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation "Scout Drone Operation (to be renamed to Drone Avionics)" skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation" edit: bleh. still not clear. The skill that they are splitting really makes sense to be the one that is split, there isn't really an easy way to go about fixing this.... Light/Medium Drone Operation (LDO/MDO) should be split from Scout Drone Operation (SDO) to ensure that folks don't lose their existing access to T2 light and medium drones. Combat Drone Operation (CDO) is removed and skill points refunded.
Optionally, if CCP is feeling generous, Light/Medium Drone Operation can then be raised to your current Combat Drone Operation (CDO) skill if it happens to be higher. Meaning, LDO and MDO are split from the higher of CDO or SDO. (CDO skillpoints would not be refunded.)
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:47:00 -
[547] - Quote
So in summary i believe the community hates your dev blog for the following reasons.
1) it makes the nyx have no added value over the Aeon and thus makes the Nyx a valuless ships A. less low slot? B. better tank C. Same or better gank D. wtf i trained a nyx for a reason your now taking away that reason.
Solutions? Give Nyx very slight damage buff? like 11% damage per skill instead of 10? not sure what they want here.
2) Your increasing the SP Requirements A) Racial drones = another skills B) Max Damage has goal post moved, for max damage you now have to invest into 4 lvl 5 skills for max damage to drones, meaning many people at max damage now will be 15% less than max damage post patch 3) Can i say this again? 4 ******* lvl 5 skills must be trained even to 4 that sucks.
Solution? I see three 1) keep it as is but refund all drone skills post patch allowing players to do wih the drone tree what they will. 2) Change it so that if i can fly it now i can fly it then --- Right now i can fly all sentries post patch i should be able to. 3) For people who have drone interfacing V Refund that skill and any skill that requires that skill because you've nerfed that skill in half.
3) Faction Sentries are better than Tech 2 Sentries A) your spreadsheet don't lie, Same Base damage, Damage modifier, optimal, fallof, better tracking, more shield/armor/hp B) This is out of line with other weapons sytems, you must recognize this some peoples primary weapon system.
Solutions: Decrease the tracking speed of Faction sentries to less than that of T2 sentries, or vice versa Means factions are tankier and have less sp requirement, but less trackign as well.
4) Fighter/Fighter Bomber changes don't solve Bombing problem: A) still to slow? B) ISBoxer sucks. C) Why you no fix ISBoxer D) your greedy
Solution? End ISBOXER!
The fourth arguement seems to be the worst, and i think Fozzie has answered it, but the other seems to be completely valid concerns that your not taking into account. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:49:00 -
[548] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:stoicfaux wrote:It's intentional, and seemingly justified by the closure in gap between T1/Faction and T2 performance. The racial drone skills being required for T2 sentries is an entirely different matter. Read my post a few comments up about the contradictory language in the post. So the fix is to change * "We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation" to * "We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation "Scout Drone Operation (to be renamed to Drone Avionics)" skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation" edit: bleh. still not clear. The skill that they are splitting really makes sense to be the one that is split, there isn't really an easy way to go about fixing this.... Light/Medium Drone Operation (LDO/MDO) should be split from Scout Drone Operation (SDO) to ensure that folks don't lose their existing access to T2 light and medium drones. Combat Drone Operation (CDO) is removed and skill points refunded. Optionally, if CCP is feeling generous, Light/Medium Drone Operation can then be raised to your current Combat Drone Operation (CDO) skill if it happens to be higher. Meaning, LDO and MDO are split from the higher of CDO or SDO. (CDO skillpoints would not be refunded.)
The problem with splitting scout drone operation is that you then need to do something in order to give that control range.
The second one would work - having your Light/Medium Drone Operation raised up to whichever was higher of Combat Drone or Scout Drone would work well, with the new Drone Avionics being entirely based on your Scout Drone Operation skill. It could potentially be abused by newer players starting after the announcement, however. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1082
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:51:00 -
[549] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: We understand the frustrations expressed by some about how these changes do not address the Drone UI, AI and/or Ewar Drones. These are important issues, but they require a different set of resources to solve and we are not going to hold back meaningful positive changes to wait until we can fix everything at once. Absolutely fair. Could I just ask, then, if there's any sense in keeping Electronic Warfare IV as a prerequisite for Advanced Drone Avionics? If nothing else, you could take the opportunity to break EWAR drones--whatever happens to them--free of that rather awkward prerequisite, yes?
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
260
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:55:00 -
[550] - Quote
Faction drones do not benefit from Racial Drone Specialization. T2 drones will do better damage due to this, with the skills trained. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:55:00 -
[551] - Quote
Nira Meru wrote: Solution? I see three 1) keep it as is but refund all drone skills post patch allowing players to do wih the drone tree what they will. 2) Change it so that if i can fly it now i can fly it then --- Right now i can fly all sentries post patch i should be able to. 3) For people who have drone interfacing V Refund that skill and any skill that requires that skill because you've nerfed that skill in half.
Surely you must be aware, on some level, that none of these things will ever happen.
And regarding your second point, CCP Fozzie has already explicitly stated that CCP will not post-patch reimburse players who already have the capacity to use tech2 sentries that fail to train the specific racial drone specialization skills prior to the actual patch.
Thus, if you wish to keep using your tech2 sentries, you'll have to train their associated racial drone spec skills to a minimum of level 1 - even at a 5x time coefficient, that's only 40m * 4 = 160m = 2.67 hours to keep the bare-minimum requirement of using all 4 tech2 sentry classes.
To get them competent in terms of DPS, though, you'll probably need at least level 4 in each skill, which is no small feat, either. I do feel your pain on that one.
|
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
279
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:55:00 -
[552] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:As someone that actually has Amarr Drone Specialization V, I'm happy that I can finally get some use out of that skill!
I have been working on these too for a while on an alt. Glad to see they will be of some use now. |
Yumiko Shaku
Trigger's Broom PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 19:57:00 -
[553] - Quote
Drak Fel wrote:Yumiko Shaku wrote:CCP Fozzie, So with the upcoming changes, mostly the one I want to ask about is the reduction of total drones from 20 to 10, with the way you are doing the bonuses as a 100% damage bonus to fighter and fighter bomber damage, is there a reason we can't see the return of standard drones to supercarriers minus the 100% role bonus effectively making it as useful as a regular carrier when using sub capital drones?
And if not, can we please have a new capital drone that are micro ventures, because mining supers where amusing ^.^ Supercarriers that are as useful a normal carrier for something other than grinding structures? That's crazy talk. Meiggghhhtttt but I want to go mining dammit. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6811
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:00:00 -
[554] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:
ISboxer allows one man/woman to flawlessly give X number of accounts the exact same command at the exact same time. How is that not an unfair advantage over other players? ... Any changes to anything that deal with sov should come with a corresponding reduction in sov structure hp.
both of these are eminently reasonable (the latter especially, sov sucks) it is just pretty orthoginal to a thread where isboxer bombing is nerfed somewhat and you can up your dps on uncontested structure shooting over the current
so like i don't get why you're so angry the changes make the things you're annoyed at a little less bad while not even directly targeting them - just going out of the way a little on an unrelated rebalance to tweak things
you should be pleased Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Disadvantaged Persons Outreach Division:
"We hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:03:00 -
[555] - Quote
Alternative implementation I've come up with talking to someone else - require a level in medium or light drone operation to use either T1 or T2, with Scout Drone Operation remaining the deciding factor in whether you can use T2 or not.
It's not exactly consistent with how the other drone skills work, but it also doesn't screw people over much. |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
47
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:36:00 -
[556] - Quote
For people who are curious, I made some graphs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahg6AchbYoJwdGY2UEozZ0cteXM3YmJqTm9VS3dHZnc&usp=sharing
The tl;dr of it is that Curators have the optimal to reach out to almost the end of max-skilled drone control range, so, if you're expecting to often be closer to the target than your sentries or have signficantly increased drone control range, look into Bouncers but otherwise just run Garde/Curator. (Due to vagaries of the drone control system, you need to be within your own drone control range for assisted drones to attack, too.)
ETA: Skills aren't included other than the one with max domi/ishtar skills and that I multiplied in 1.25 to optimal range for Drone Sharpshooting. Do not treat damage numbers as representative of what you would actually get, but rather use them to compare. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1788
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:40:00 -
[557] - Quote
mkint wrote: since there's no "drone upgrades" skill like there is with weapons?
i agree we need a drone upgrades skill with a cpu reduction for drone modules per level trained... that way dla wont hurt so much on cpu. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Nira Meru
Codename-47 Chained Reactions
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:42:00 -
[558] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:Nira Meru wrote: Solution? I see three 1) keep it as is but refund all drone skills post patch allowing players to do wih the drone tree what they will. 2) Change it so that if i can fly it now i can fly it then --- Right now i can fly all sentries post patch i should be able to. 3) For people who have drone interfacing V Refund that skill and any skill that requires that skill because you've nerfed that skill in half.
Surely you must be aware, on some level, that none of these things will ever happen. And regarding your second point, CCP Fozzie has already explicitly stated that CCP will not post-patch reimburse players who already have the capacity to use tech2 sentries that fail to train the specific racial drone specialization skills prior to the actual patch. Thus, if you wish to keep using your tech2 sentries, you'll have to train their associated racial drone spec skills to a minimum of level 1 - even at a 5x time coefficient, that's only 40m * 4 = 160m = 2.67 hours to keep the bare-minimum requirement of using all 4 tech2 sentry classes. To get them competent in terms of DPS, though, you'll probably need at least level 4 in each skill, which is no small feat, either. I do feel your pain on that one.
Yeah it's actually tbh lvl 5 in all i'd have to train for my drones to do 8.5% less damage than they do right now (Gardes atleast. ) |
Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 20:49:00 -
[559] - Quote
CCP Fozzie,you say that you have allowed enough time for people to train what is needed. Well did you forget the refining changes and the time needed to train to get somewhat close to where a toon is at now. Add in drone training needed and now your claim makes no sense. I am already mapped for Industry/Drones, so its not too bad for me, but a lot of players are going to get hurt when the changes are looked at as a whole. |
Onslaughtor
Occult National Security Affirmative.
83
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:01:00 -
[560] - Quote
So is there any plans to reduce the training time for the large size drones? Currently they are a 5x train same as large turrets, although they're split the same way as missiles, which are a 4x.
This means that training for all t2 drones takes a very long time compared to another weapon system.
|
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2293
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:09:00 -
[561] - Quote
Gargep Farrow wrote:CCP Fozzie,you say that you have allowed enough time for people to train what is needed. Well did you forget the refining changes and the time needed to train to get somewhat close to where a toon is at now. Add in drone training needed and now your claim makes no sense. I am already mapped for Industry/Drones, so its not too bad for me, but a lot of players are going to get hurt when the changes are looked at as a whole. T2 sentry drones require Sentry Drone Interfacing V right now, after these changes they will require Sentry Drone Interfacing V and Racial Drone Specialization I. That is a whole 35 minute training time, I think they will live. -á --á |
EmeriL
Russian Thunder Squad The Afterlife.
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 21:15:00 -
[562] - Quote
Eh, so... anything about ecm drones? |
Meandering Milieu
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
22
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 22:19:00 -
[563] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Obil Que wrote: Can you address the question of access to racial T2 sentries for those with Sentry Drone Interfacing trained to V. As it stands, those with that skill will lose access to existing weapons when the requirement for racial skills is implemented. Will those pilots receive the minimum level of racial skill to compensate?
Players will not be given racial drone spec skills. We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch.
I may have missed it, but in the dev blog I didn't see which -level- of racial specialization is required to use T2 sentries. I'm just wondering because it would be dreadful if it were level 5. Require a 16-20 day training time for one type of T2 drone, and months for all 4, when a turret specialization on requires lvl 1 to fit T2s, would be harsh. It already seems kind of bad that you have to train ~12 days after training a ~20 day skill to get the T2 heavies. I understand they are racial seperations, but they aren't 4 different weapon systems, they are all drones. It's very skill intensive compared to any single turret. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 22:29:00 -
[564] - Quote
Meandering Milieu wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Obil Que wrote: Can you address the question of access to racial T2 sentries for those with Sentry Drone Interfacing trained to V. As it stands, those with that skill will lose access to existing weapons when the requirement for racial skills is implemented. Will those pilots receive the minimum level of racial skill to compensate?
Players will not be given racial drone spec skills. We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch. I may have missed it, but in the dev blog I didn't see which -level- of racial specialization is required to use T2 sentries. I'm just wondering because it would be dreadful if it were level 5. Require a 16-20 day training time for one type of T2 drone, and months for all 4, when a turret specialization on requires lvl 1 to fit T2s, would be harsh. It already seems kind of bad that you have to train ~12 days after training a ~20 day skill to get the T2 heavies. I understand they are racial seperations, but they aren't 4 different weapon systems, they are all drones. It's very skill intensive compared to any single turret.
Fozzie has said in this thread that all drones will now require only level I In the racial spec |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 22:30:00 -
[565] - Quote
Meandering Milieu wrote:I may have missed it, but in the dev blog I didn't see which -level- of racial specialization is required to use T2 sentries. I'm just wondering because it would be dreadful if it were level 5. Require a 16-20 day training time for one type of T2 drone, and months for all 4, when a turret specialization on requires lvl 1 to fit T2s, would be harsh. It already seems kind of bad that you have to train ~12 days after training a ~20 day skill to get the T2 heavies. I understand they are racial seperations, but they aren't 4 different weapon systems, they are all drones. It's very skill intensive compared to any single turret.
He didn't mention it there.. But in a post he said that Spec 1 will be all that's needed for ALL T2 Drones.. Putting them in line with Guns that only need Spec 1 for T2 Guns. |
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 23:14:00 -
[566] - Quote
Nira Meru wrote: Yeah it's actually tbh lvl 5 in all i'd have to train for my drones to do 8.5% less damage than they do right now (Gardes atleast. )
True.
You would indeed require Gallente Drone Specialization at level 5 in order for your Garde2's to do 6.5% *less* DPS than they currently do, after the summer patch is implemented (assuming that it's implemented as-currently-proposed).
Bad weather ahead in DPS-land for Garde2 users. |
Meandering Milieu
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
22
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 00:07:00 -
[567] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote: He didn't mention it there.. But in a post he said that Spec 1 will be all that's needed for ALL T2 Drones.. Putting them in line with Guns that only need Spec 1 for T2 Guns.
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
Fozzie has said in this thread that all drones will now require only level I In the racial spec
Ah thank you, I'm still not through the entire thread. Sorry for the sperging :v |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
324
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 00:33:00 -
[568] - Quote
looks like you guys really want me to unsub my accounts, ugh. |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
324
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 00:37:00 -
[569] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Yea, Way to make it all about me. What about the little guy who's alliance has collectively 4 supers. I'm sure he's super excited about the idea of having to make himself more vulnerable just so he can reach his current DPS potentials on TQ. That sure is great for him, I mean my alliance can just stay full tank fit and not care really, whats a few seconds when you have 50 supers grinding a thing right, but to a lesser entity, this change is a swift kick in the nuts, here, have this craptasitc sov system, oh, and we're going to make you either take longer or tank less, both of which are likely to attract the attention of super hunters while you're working. Sure am glad we're making it easier on the new guy to break into 0.0. Guess he should just use stealth bombers to grind sov like the rest of the game. CCP Fozzie wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: increasing the weapon system risk Fighter Bombers are getting double base HP, plus the effects of the Drone Durability skill. This makes them less vulnerable to bombs, not more vulnerable. What does that matter to ISboxer?
+1
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Marsan
Old Farts
217
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 00:37:00 -
[570] - Quote
Honestly I can ever see using C or A drones unless they are are the same speed or DPS as the G and M drones. In general my drone bay is always too small. At best I can afford to carry 2 flights of drones for a given function. (And that's being generous.) I'm not going to bring along another set of in the hopes of finding the sweet spot where I only need a little speed for my drones to work. If you want them to be interesting you really need a really fast drone* low dps drone, a high alpha drone, a fast drone with good damage, and a high dps drone. (Still I'm not sure I'd ever use a high alpha drone, but maybe I'm too small of fights.)
With sentries it's even harder as I really only want dps and range. Tracking is nice, but honestly using a mjd for range works pretty well. I guess it might matter if I was using sentries in a non BS. Maybe high dps short range, long range low dps, decent speed low dps, and good tracking good dps fair range.
*Think inty speeds for lights, and cruiser AB speeds for heavy. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
525
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 00:51:00 -
[571] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Tippia wrote: It's like this:
Before: Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù1.8 (Drone Interfacing IV) +ù1.05 (Sentry Interfacing I) = 151.2 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 200 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 50 damage +ù1.92 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 240 damage at max skills.
After: Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.4 (DI IV) +ù1.05 (SI I) = 159.9 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 204 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) +ù1.1 (Gal. Drone Spec V) = 224.4 damage at max skills.
T1 becomes 2% better at maxed skills (6% better at minimum skills); T2 becomes 6.5% worse at max skills (and max skills requires more SP).
So my exploration Ishtar is going to do 748 DPS instead of its current 800 DPS, assuming I train for 19 days to get Gallente spec up to 5. That blows. Starting to look like its gonna take 19 days and 400mil in faction DDAs to make my Garde IIs perform the same as they do now. And I still won't be able to control them via F1-F5 like any other weapon in game. Or move around while using them. Arg.
Given the cost of T2 sentries and the training needed to get to Sentry V to qualify, I can see the use of T2 sentries dropping off as more and more newer players look at it and decide to stick with T1. T2 probably are barely worth it under new rules unless you already have them trained.
If I get the gist of the original blog what they wanted is new players to be able to train interfacing to IV and Sentry to IV and still be almost as effective as a fully skilled player. Currently taking those two skills from IV to V gives you something like a 50% total damage hike. |
Wedgetail
Helix Pulse Brothers of Tangra
91
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 02:23:00 -
[572] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Looking forward to all your feedback. CCP Rise and I have been working hard on these changes and we think they'll be great for the drone ecosystem as a whole.
:Edit:
I'm seeing a fair bit of confusion about the details of the Sentry changes. I left the nitty gritty details out of the text section of the blog since they don't lend themselves to easy summaries and the actual numbers were in the spreadsheet, but I'll go over the end results of the changes to T1 and T2 sentries here so people can see the whole picture. These numbers assume max skills:
Curator I - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +18.15% damage Warden I - +40% falloff, +12% damage Garde I - +50% falloff, +2% damage Bouncer I - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, +2.86% damage
Curator II - +15% tracking, -50% falloff, +8.31% damage Warden II - +40% falloff, +2.67% damage Garde II - +50% falloff, -6.5% damage Bouncer II - +60% tracking, -12.5% optimal, +14.3% falloff, -5.71% damage
Finally, your team appears to be doing something resembling meaningful work. the thought procsess still screams of 'we must have balance and therefore statistical equality' but it's a good step up - most notably in finally starting to fix dronelands PVE rewards and sentry logic.
though you might stand to gain checking your drone AI targeting logic and how it splits priorities based on range when using different drone sets - aggregate them to pick a target that matches all deployed drone ranges and you might save yourself some CPU. (treat all drones deployed as a single weapon group for picking a target - then if that fails break them up)
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9356
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 02:34:00 -
[573] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Because its a stupid change that hurts anybody who doesn't have an established supercapital force?
Because it helps to further stifle the 0.0 environment by further forcing new groups to rely on an existing umbrella?
Because any change that promotes the botting that is ISboxer is bad, and this does exactly that?
your complaint is "isboxer exists" and "bombers exist" these changes help by making isboxer bombers less effective on fbs sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Exactly.
Right now a Cyclops has 20,000 HP. The other fighter-bombers have 19,500 HP (Mantis and Tyrfing) or 20,500 (Malleus). After the HP is doubled, and the drone durability skill takes effect, their ability to take damage will substantially increase.
A Cyclop's lowest overall resist is against thermal. Its thermal EHP is ~24,500. With Drone Durability IV and the HP doubling, the FB has a new EHP to thermal of ~58,800.
Not to mention your fighter-bombers will be faster than before. So they'll do slightly less damage. Overall I think it's a buff. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2815
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 02:46:00 -
[574] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Weaselior wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Because its a stupid change that hurts anybody who doesn't have an established supercapital force?
Because it helps to further stifle the 0.0 environment by further forcing new groups to rely on an existing umbrella?
Because any change that promotes the botting that is ISboxer is bad, and this does exactly that?
your complaint is "isboxer exists" and "bombers exist" these changes help by making isboxer bombers less effective on fbs sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Exactly. Right now a Cyclops has 20,000 HP. The other fighter-bombers have 19,500 HP (Mantis and Tyrfing) or 20,500 (Malleus). After the HP is doubled, and the drone durability skill takes effect, their ability to take damage will substantially increase. A Cyclop's lowest overall resist is against thermal. Its thermal EHP is ~24,500. With Drone Durability IV and the HP doubling, the FB has a new EHP to thermal of ~58,800. Not to mention your fighter-bombers will be faster than before. So they'll do slightly less damage. Overall I think it's a buff. will a single bomb be hitting half as many fb targets than before the change, doing half as much damage as before? |
Javon Bars
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
17
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 02:52:00 -
[575] - Quote
So previously shield-based supercapitals were already the strongest supers in the game. You "balance" this by making them even stronger?
Sounds legit. |
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 02:54:00 -
[576] - Quote
Any talk about utility drones? Shield, nosferatu, web etc... |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2368
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 02:58:00 -
[577] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
A Cyclop's lowest overall resist is against thermal. Its thermal EHP is ~24,500. With Drone Durability IV and the HP doubling, the FB has a new EHP to thermal of ~58,800.
.
You realize how many bombs that number damage you quoted is right? Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
|
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 03:33:00 -
[578] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote: Given the cost of T2 sentries and the training needed to get to Sentry V to qualify, I can see the use of T2 sentries dropping off as more and more newer players look at it and decide to stick with T1. T2 probably are barely worth it under new rules unless you already have them trained.
Exactly - and if you take a detailed look at the developers' spreadsheet for the upcoming drone changes, you'll see that the faction sentries are even BETTER than their tech2 counterparts in most areas: they get double the shield/armor HP, slightly reduced structure HP, and 5% better tracking! They're almost universally superior, when other things [such as damage] are held equal between the two.
The only condition under which tech2 sentries will still outpace their faction counterparts is when considering damage bonuses from the racial drone specialization skills, which will add another 10%. So, is it worth it? ... Certainly not in the short-term, but in the long-term, it can be.
Hasikan Miallok wrote: If I get the gist of the original blog what they wanted is new players to be able to train interfacing to IV and Sentry to IV and still be almost as effective as a fully skilled player. Currently taking those two skills from IV to V gives you something like a 50% total damage hike.
Yep - Drone Interfacing 5 gives a (2/1.8) modifier bonus, and Sentry Drone Interfacing 5 gives a (1.25/1.2) modifier bonus, plus the tech 2 (1.2) damage modifier bonus, so...
(2/1.8) * (1.25/1.2) * 1.2 = 10/9 * 5/4 = 50/36 = 1.3889
Thus, it is a 38.89% DPS increase to spend ~1.5-2 months to train both skills up to 5 - and it actually makes the skill point investment sound - yet now tech1 pilots and wealthier capsuleers (who're willing to fork over the ISK for faction sentries) instantly get near-maximum DPS projection levels.
Ugh. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9356
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 03:53:00 -
[579] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:
A Cyclop's lowest overall resist is against thermal. Its thermal EHP is ~24,500. With Drone Durability IV and the HP doubling, the FB has a new EHP to thermal of ~58,800.
.
You realize how many bombs that number damage you quoted is right? A scorch bomb applies 2,000 thermal damage to a fighter-bomber (6400 base * (125 m FB signature radius / 400 m bomb explosion radius)). Let's make an assumption that one out of every four stealth bombers is a Nemesis with Covert Ops 4. That raises the average bomb damage to 2,100.
24500 / 2100 = 11.67... 12 scorch bombs to destroy a non-MWDing Cyclops prior to the changes. Two bomb runs of 7 can easily do this (two of 6 can but the 7th is a backup).
58,800 / 2100 = 28 28 scorch bombs to destroy a non-MWDing Cyclops with Drone Durability IV after the changes. 30 with Drone Durability V. You need four bomb runs of 8 to destroy this. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Narcil
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 04:00:00 -
[580] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:
A Cyclop's lowest overall resist is against thermal. Its thermal EHP is ~24,500. With Drone Durability IV and the HP doubling, the FB has a new EHP to thermal of ~58,800.
.
You realize how many bombs that number damage you quoted is right? A scorch bomb applies 2,000 thermal damage to a fighter-bomber (6400 base * (125 m FB signature radius / 400 m bomb explosion radius)). Let's make an assumption that one out of every four stealth bombers is a Nemesis with Covert Ops 4. That raises the average bomb damage to 2,100. 24500 / 2100 = 11.67... 12 scorch bombs to destroy a non-MWDing Cyclops prior to the changes. Two bomb runs of 7 can easily do this (two of 6 can but the 7th is a backup). 58,800 / 2100 = 28 28 scorch bombs to destroy a non-MWDing Cyclops with Drone Durability IV after the changes. 30 with Drone Durability V. You need four bomb runs of 8 to destroy this. or 1 if the bomber pilot isn't a complete moron and hits them while they are mwding. they have to mwd at some point. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9359
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 04:02:00 -
[581] - Quote
They'll also be up to 25% faster now.
I mean really, there's no way your fighter-bomber survivability didn't go up this way. And with less of them chances are you'll have less of them within the bomb explosion area. There's just the tradeoff of them doing somewhat less damage, which you can easily fix by fitting drone damage amplifiers and refitting to tank when you need it.
"But what about the small guys", he cries. The small guys have so few supers they can't refit in space off each other when they cyno in, so you're really just nerfing them. Right? I'm kind of wondering though just how much two extra low slots for tank actually helps these small guys when their supers get caught. Also to mitigate this problem we do have the mobile depot, although it comes with restrictions that limit its refitting abilities much more than having more supers does. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 04:33:00 -
[582] - Quote
guys, my previously do-it-all ship now has to choose between tank and gank, please revert the change
it's not like they can refit in combat and have the buffer to survive or anything |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 04:35:00 -
[583] - Quote
also my drones are vulnerable to death even after being handed a greater than 100% increase in EHP, this is unacceptable |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2070
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 04:51:00 -
[584] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Sorry Fozzie this change sucks for anybody grinding structures, I'm 100% not 'doing it wrong', you're nerfing the supers DPS output and forcing them to tank less so putting them in more danger while increasing the weapon system risk because CCP refuses to do anything about ISBoxer since its feeding them subs, which amounts to every fight haviing 40+ bombers being ran by 6 guys (totally ok though right, i mean any kind of botting that feeds subs to our little icelandic company can't be all bad right?).
So try not to tell me I'm doing it wrong when you seem to have zero understanding of the current 0.0 meta.
Stop adjusting the things for how you think the game will be played and adjust it based on how its actually being played.
People are actually using ISboxer to death, and you are actually making the supercarriers more vulnerable to it. I guess the end result is supposed to be everybody grinding structures in bombers because you're seriously limiting the options on what people are willing to deal with as far as structure grinding goes.
Why can't you guys get that SOV sucks to deal with, you used to be players, how hard is it to just not screw with the things that allow us to limp through this terrible set of game mechanics without making it worse? heaven forbid you need to run a small antisupport wing to fend off bombers hint: bombers need to come within 30km of whatever they are bombing 45km Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Bitney BIOS
Baby Seal Bashing Club Cynosural Field Theory.
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 05:17:00 -
[585] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:They'll also be up to 25% faster now.
"But what about the small guys", he cries. The small guys have so few supers they can't refit in space off each other when they cyno in, so you're really just nerfing them. Right? I'm kind of wondering though just how much two extra low slots for tank actually helps these small guys when their supers get caught. Also to mitigate this problem we do have the mobile depot, although it comes with restrictions that limit its refitting abilities much more than having more supers does.
We're one of those small alliances, and those lows make a huge ******* difference. These changes comes in as a pretty big nerf for alot of us.
1. either sacrifice alot of our survivability 2. sacrifice a stupid high % of your stopping power, when nuking a hostile capital, thus increaing the chance of losing a super.
Either way, its a loss for us. We dont have the numbers, so we have to rely on speed and dps to kill capitals.
Or stop using supers, and go back to dreds.
\Doc
|
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 05:19:00 -
[586] - Quote
MAJOR PROBLEM DETECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fighters have a Signature Resolution of 125m !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is Cruiser sized! That means Carriers with tracking mods will be able to PERFECTLY hit cruisers with fighters.
This needs to be adjusted before this change goes live. Bump the Signature Resolution up to the level of Sentry Drones, 400m.
That will make them fully effective vs Battleships but less so as ships scale down down in sized. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
343
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 05:23:00 -
[587] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:MAJOR PROBLEM DETECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fighters have a Signature Resolution of 125m !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is Cruiser sized! That means Carriers with tracking mods will be able to PERFECTLY hit cruisers with fighters.
This needs to be adjusted before this change goes live. Bump the Signature Resolution up to the level of Sentry Drones, 400m.
That will make them fully effective vs Battleships but less so as ships scale down down in sized. woah there chief you are running dangerously close to exhausting your exclamation point quota for the month
you can call attention to things without using 98 exclamation marks |
Doc Banshee
Baby Seal Bashing Club Cynosural Field Theory.
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 05:24:00 -
[588] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:MAJOR PROBLEM DETECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fighters have a Signature Resolution of 125m !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is Cruiser sized! That means Carriers with tracking mods will be able to PERFECTLY hit cruisers with fighters.
This needs to be adjusted before this change goes live. Bump the Signature Resolution up to the level of Sentry Drones, 400m.
That will make them fully effective vs Battleships but less so as ships scale down down in sized.
Yep, because fighters are so incredibly scary with the ****** drone AI thats currently being used.
Oh wait.
Fighters are useless, and have been for years, except for pve - and the odd drop on a gnosis or ratting raven in 0.0 |
Ragnen Delent
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 06:05:00 -
[589] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:MAJOR PROBLEM DETECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fighters have a Signature Resolution of 125m !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is Cruiser sized! That means Carriers with tracking mods will be able to PERFECTLY hit cruisers with fighters.
This needs to be adjusted before this change goes live. Bump the Signature Resolution up to the level of Sentry Drones, 400m.
That will make them fully effective vs Battleships but less so as ships scale down down in sized.
You do know that they have a signature resolution of 125m currently, right? Their tracking isn't changing, and their base speed is so poor that they will still struggle to even keep up with a cruiser that doesn't have a prop mod. They aren't a threat to cruisers currently and it is unlikely they will be one after this patch. |
Midori Tsu
Evolution Northern Coalition.
124
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:36:00 -
[590] - Quote
I'm fine with FB damage getting nerfed, but i think having to use 2 DDAs to get the current damage seems a to much.
Would adjusting the FB damage from 1400 to 1600 be a fair compromise? With 1 DDA you still do less damage but its nearly the same. |
|
Doc Banshee
Baby Seal Bashing Club Cynosural Field Theory.
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:43:00 -
[591] - Quote
Midori Tsu wrote:I'm fine with FB damage getting nerfed, but i think having to use 2 DDAs to get the current damage seems a to much.
Would adjusting the FB damage from 1400 to 1600 be a fair compromise? With 1 DDA you still do less damage but its nearly the same.
If you mean 1 t2 DDA, for slightly less damage, or with a faction dda slightly better damage. Fine with me. That still gives the small corps/alliances with supers some decent firepower, without losing to much.
Would help alot if the droprate on shadow bpcs were increased as well.
Those with lots of isk, can be loot pinatas, grab officer dda's and shadow bombers. Get more dps, and on the other hand be a very juicy target.
|
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:48:00 -
[592] - Quote
Ragnen Delent wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:MAJOR PROBLEM DETECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fighters have a Signature Resolution of 125m !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is Cruiser sized! That means Carriers with tracking mods will be able to PERFECTLY hit cruisers with fighters.
This needs to be adjusted before this change goes live. Bump the Signature Resolution up to the level of Sentry Drones, 400m.
That will make them fully effective vs Battleships but less so as ships scale down down in sized. You do know that they have a signature resolution of 125m currently, right? Their tracking isn't changing, and their base speed is so poor that they will still struggle to even keep up with a cruiser that doesn't have a prop mod. They aren't a threat to cruisers currently and it is unlikely they will be one after this patch.
Quote: we are expanding all universal drone bonuses from skills and modules to Fighters and Fighter Bombers.
Quote: To compensate for these changes, the base damage of Fighters and Fighter Bombers is being reduced.
Thought it may not be perfectly apparent to the average bitternoob, Fighters are getting a COLOSSAL buff by way of support skills and modules. As stated in the dev blog, the only compensation for the changes is the base damage which will be reconciled by skills alone.
Skill bonuses: 25% max velocity 25% max hit points 25% optimal
Potential module bonuses: Damage Tracking Optimal Range MWD speed
If you check out the spreadsheet in the devblog you'll see that fighters are pretty damn fast. 2000-2500 m/s max velocity (mwd i assume) and 225-300 m/s cruise speed (not sure if the skill will affect cruise speed or just mwd). These are faster base MWD speed than the new heavy drone speed and just slightly slower base cruise speed. Also the base range on a Dragonfly is 5000+3500 so imagine with skills and modules.
When you add all the skills and Modules to together you end up with an amazing fighter buff.
When you then add on top of that a Signature Resolution of 125 meters, then you have the conditions for this to get out of hand fast.
Do you guys disagree with these points? |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
324
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:49:00 -
[593] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote: Given the cost of T2 sentries and the training needed to get to Sentry V to qualify, I can see the use of T2 sentries dropping off as more and more newer players look at it and decide to stick with T1. T2 probably are barely worth it under new rules unless you already have them trained.
Exactly - and if you take a detailed look at the developers' spreadsheet for the upcoming drone changes, you'll see that the faction sentries are even BETTER than their tech2 counterparts in most areas: they get double the shield/armor HP, slightly reduced structure HP, and 5% better tracking! They're almost universally superior, when other things [such as damage] are held equal between the two. The only condition under which tech2 sentries will still outpace their faction counterparts is when considering damage bonuses from the racial drone specialization skills, which will add another 10%. So, is it worth it? ... Certainly not in the short-term, but in the long-term, it can be. Hasikan Miallok wrote: If I get the gist of the original blog what they wanted is new players to be able to train interfacing to IV and Sentry to IV and still be almost as effective as a fully skilled player. Currently taking those two skills from IV to V gives you something like a 50% total damage hike.
Yep - Drone Interfacing 5 gives a (2/1.8) modifier bonus, and Sentry Drone Interfacing 5 gives a (1.25/1.2) modifier bonus, plus the tech 2 (1.2) damage modifier bonus, so... (2/1.8) * (1.25/1.2) * 1.2 = 10/9 * 5/4 = 50/36 = 1.3889 Thus, it is a 38.89% DPS increase to spend ~1.5-2 months to train both skills up to 5 - and it actually makes the skill point investment sound - yet now tech1 pilots and wealthier capsuleers (who're willing to fork over the ISK for faction sentries) instantly get near-maximum DPS projection levels. This is part of a movement that is [not-so-subtly] wrecking the value of skill point investment--instead, we are bearing witness to instant-gratification DPS for level 1 sentry drone users. So much for being a veteran! Ugh. indeed. right after i spend those 2 months on multiple toons training what seems like a sound, if not lengthy, skill que, it's basically made useless. i'm rich, i can spend tons of isk on faction drones, i didn't spend those plexes training up just to get ****** spc increase (you seriously want me to lvl up all 4 racial drones to spc 5 now?) |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:50:00 -
[594] - Quote
Why are heavy drones as big as fighters, but much slower?
Both heavies and fighters would also need their orbit velocity, optimal and falloffs doubled.
|
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 07:54:00 -
[595] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Ragnen Delent wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:MAJOR PROBLEM DETECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fighters have a Signature Resolution of 125m !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is Cruiser sized! That means Carriers with tracking mods will be able to PERFECTLY hit cruisers with fighters.
This needs to be adjusted before this change goes live. Bump the Signature Resolution up to the level of Sentry Drones, 400m.
That will make them fully effective vs Battleships but less so as ships scale down down in sized. You do know that they have a signature resolution of 125m currently, right? Their tracking isn't changing, and their base speed is so poor that they will still struggle to even keep up with a cruiser that doesn't have a prop mod. They aren't a threat to cruisers currently and it is unlikely they will be one after this patch. Quote: we are expanding all universal drone bonuses from skills and modules to Fighters and Fighter Bombers. Quote: To compensate for these changes, the base damage of Fighters and Fighter Bombers is being reduced. Thought it may not be perfectly apparent to the average bitternoob, Fighters are getting a COLOSSAL buff by way of support skills and modules. As stated in the dev blog, the only compensation for the changes is the base damage which will be reconciled by skills alone. Skill bonuses: 25% max velocity 25% max hit points 25% optimal Potential module bonuses: Damage Tracking Optimal Range MWD speed If you check out the spreadsheet in the devblog you'll see that fighters are pretty damn fast. 2000-2500 m/s max velocity (mwd i assume) and 225-300 m/s cruise speed (not sure if the skill will affect cruise speed or just mwd). These are faster base MWD speed than the new heavy drone speed and just slightly slower base cruise speed. Also the base range on a Dragonfly is 5000+3500 so imagine with skills and modules. When you add all the skills and Modules to together you end up with an amazing fighter buff. When you then add on top of that a Signature Resolution of 125 meters, then you have the conditions for this to get out of hand fast. Do you guys disagree with these points?
Don't you think an unused weapon system needs a buff? Fighters haven't been used on TQ in years, this buff opens them up to at least experimenting with. They still lack the orbit velocity to make any damage at all, but if it's fixed we might actually see Thanatoses fielded in some situations.
|
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 08:10:00 -
[596] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote: Don't you think an unused weapon system needs a buff? Fighters haven't been used on TQ in years, this buff opens them up to at least experimenting with. They still lack the orbit velocity to make any damage at all, but if it's fixed we might actually see Thanatoses fielded in some situations.
Yes, It needs a buff and is getting a buff and i'm glad.
However, because of it's current Signature Radius it has the potential to have much greater utility than necessary.
Think about it in this way. Heavy Drones and Fighters will have the same Signature Resolution and very similar stats across the board with the exception of damage and range. After the buff Fighters will not be able to utilize modules as well. This means that fighters will overshadow Heavy drones in pretty much all cases.
Is there a reason for Fighters to have a Sig Res of 125m? Does that help fighters apply damage to Battleships with 400m sig radius in anyway?
Is there any reason not to alter the Sig res of fighters to 350-400m? |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
513
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 08:17:00 -
[597] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: stuff...
pl ranting about isboxer.....like really?
it's not like pl is using it massively.....hint: PHEW |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 08:20:00 -
[598] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote: Don't you think an unused weapon system needs a buff? Fighters haven't been used on TQ in years, this buff opens them up to at least experimenting with. They still lack the orbit velocity to make any damage at all, but if it's fixed we might actually see Thanatoses fielded in some situations.
Yes, It needs a buff and is getting a buff and i'm glad. However, because of it's current Signature Radius it has the potential to have much greater utility than necessary. Think about it in this way. Heavy Drones and Fighters will have the same Signature Resolution and very similar stats across the board with the exception of damage and range. After the buff Fighters will not be able to utilize modules as well. This means that fighters will overshadow Heavy drones in pretty much all cases. Is there a reason for Fighters to have a Sig Res of 125m? Does that help fighters apply damage to Battleships with 400m sig radius in anyway? Is there any reason not to alter the Sig res of fighters to 350-400m?
Yep, that's why Heavy Drones need to be buffed more.
If Fighter sig res would be 400m, they wouldn't be able to hit anything, not even immobile battleships like they currently can. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20433
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 08:46:00 -
[599] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:If Fighter sig res would be 400m, they wouldn't be able to hit anything, not even immobile battleships like they currently can. Sure they would. Right now, they hit about as well as medium blasters; with 400m sig res, they'd hit about as well as large blasters. Their main problem is that they orbit too close to their target. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
633
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 08:54:00 -
[600] - Quote
So the TL;DR seems to be: If you are not a newbie, nothing really changes. Except that we may use and fight against more than two different kinds of drones now. . |
|
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
323
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:57:00 -
[601] - Quote
I just want to say that changing Sentry Drone Operation to Drone Avionics is NOT clarify its role. If clarification is the goal then Keep Sentry Drone Operation named as such, since it is the required skill to Operate sentry drones.
It is slightly confusing how Amarr drones are rated towards Minmatar on the slider for mobile drones and towards Gallente for sentry. One would naturally assume they would be in the same place on both graphs.
There is no mention of the disparity in hit points between the different racial drones. Examples: Hammerhead II - 710/288/134 = 1132 Infiltrator II - 403/288/96 = 787 Valkrie II - 346/230/154 = 730 Vespa II - 326/211/250 = 787
There is a clear disparity here that should be addressed in any drone rebalance.
That said, if this is an april fools joke, you got me. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook |
Dyntheos
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 09:59:00 -
[602] - Quote
didnt read all the 30 pages, so might have been brought up before..
1) with supercarriers getting a 100% role bonus, isnt this a stealth buff for them as their DCUs will be twice as effective as before? or do people not use them?
2) 60% tracking bonus for bouncers (rest changes only slightly) seems rather much, considering they are together with gardes sentry gangs' most used drone (and will likely remain that way) and already quite powerful. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20434
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:01:00 -
[603] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:I just want to say that changing Sentry Drone Operation to Drone Avionics is NOT clarify its role. Maybe because that's not what they're doing.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
BraiZure Harloon
A-31 Tardis Unlocked
20
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:04:00 -
[604] - Quote
On the smaller scale did I miss a modification to drone damage based ships? If not looks like I'm getting closer to quitting eve, because my max skill Arbitrator just got it's DPS cut by over a 25%. Hammer Head IIs x5 +33% base damage increase -50% Drone Interfacing = -27%. Please tell me I am missing something or my math is wrong because last I checked anything over a 25% damage reduction is a total nerf? On a side note I saw nothing about removing or reducing stacking penalty from Ewar and Combat Util drones leaving them still useless. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9608
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:29:00 -
[605] - Quote
BraiZure Harloon wrote:On the smaller scale did I miss a modification to drone damage based ships? If not looks like I'm getting closer to quitting eve, because my max skill Arbitrator just got it's DPS cut by over a 25%. Hammer Head IIs x5 +33% base damage increase -50% Drone Interfacing = -27%. Please tell me I am missing something or my math is wrong because last I checked anything over a 25% damage reduction is a total nerf? On a side note I saw nothing about removing or reducing stacking penalty from Ewar and Combat Util drones leaving them still useless.
Your math is flawed.
Currently you can look at the way drone interfacing interacts with base drone damage as: 1 x 2 = 2 After this change it will be: 1.33(repeating) x 1.5 = 2 Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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The Ironfist
Nordgoetter Northern Associates.
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:36:00 -
[606] - Quote
CCP Fozzie any ETA on when you'll release the stats on the new modules? Especially the faction versions? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
598
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:37:00 -
[607] - Quote
just remove all ewar drones. damage and logistics drones (make cap transfer drones pls) are enough. |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
162
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:55:00 -
[608] - Quote
concerning standard drones, what way will tracking and optimal / falloff progress across the races ?
Will tracking follow damage and range follow speed ?
It would make sense that slow drones would be optimised for slower targets and end up orbiting therefore tracking. It would make sense that fast drones would be optimised for fast targets and end up chasing therefore optimal/fall off.
or something different ? |
Luscius Uta
73
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 10:57:00 -
[609] - Quote
Finally, Fozzie makes some changes that I almost completely agree with!
But of course I still managed to found few things to complain about - while it's good that Amarr and Caldari drones will stop being useless, you're doing it wrong, Fozzie. People will still use Gallente drones for damage and Minmatar drones when they want speed and Amarr and Caldari drones are still going to be inferior to them (save from some specific situations, like fighting Tengu fleets), unless you realise that there's more stuff in the drone equation than just speed and damage. Why not give the best tank to Caldari drones and best tracking to Amarr drones (or the other way around)?
Splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills is hardly going to make drone usage less skill-intensive, since it's gonna add one more week of training (unless Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation will have 1x traning time multiplier, which I think would be more appropriate than 2x). Yes, I know you could train Combat Drone Operation V to make this issue non-relevant, but there'll be newer players and maybe even your alts coming to EVE after this change and this will affect them.
Changes to fighters and bombers are the most controversial undoubtely, especially how DDAs will now affect them. For Fighters I think it's still a good thing as they need some love. Hopefully this will make Drone regions less deserted as some Nyx pilots will go leaps and bounds just to put an officer DDA on their ship. Fighters still deserve another buff (like +20% damage) since their main use now is to assist ratting Tengus and, aside from being able to warp, they hardly have any advantage over Heavies and Sentries in PvP. also it's good to see Shadow bombers getting some love, hopefully you also plan to buff the Revenant to make it more en par with pirate subcapital ships and less of a Rolex watch. Also can't wait for those faction DDAs to come out so I can put them on my ratting Gila, Ishtar and Rattlesnake. |
Aerozzz
Afragoi Ltd
5
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:00:00 -
[610] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I'm kind of wondering though just how much two extra low slots for tank actually helps these small guys when their supers get caught. The TRI super you recently tackled probably wouldn't have survived the DDs from the titans, if he had 2 less tank modules in the lows.
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GeeBee
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:01:00 -
[611] - Quote
Morning CCP Fozzie, Any chance of looking into the activation proximity stats? Pretty much all of the non-sentry drones / fighters have an activation proximity that is lower than their optimal / falloff, in theory this prevents drones from applying their earliest damage to a target while on approach. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:07:00 -
[612] - Quote
GeeBee wrote:Morning CCP Fozzie, Any chance of looking into the activation proximity stats? Pretty much all of the non-sentry drones / fighters have an activation proximity that is lower than their optimal / falloff, in theory this prevents drones from applying their earliest damage to a target while on approach.
This was actually the fix that drones needed.
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Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:09:00 -
[613] - Quote
How in hell does the word Avionics clarify anything, when most people will have no idea what the word even means? |
Doc Banshee
Baby Seal Bashing Club Cynosural Field Theory.
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:44:00 -
[614] - Quote
Aerozzz wrote:[
1 guy in PL uses isboxeer -> .... -> Grath shouldn't rant about isboxer
Please fill in the gap, cause I can't figure it out. :P
Strider doesn't count. Hes a lowsec scrub like me.
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Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
385
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 11:52:00 -
[615] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:make cap transfer drones pls
Yes pls. Cap drones would be really usefull Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
598
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:10:00 -
[616] - Quote
Doc Banshee wrote:Aerozzz wrote:[
1 guy in PL uses isboxeer -> .... -> Grath shouldn't rant about isboxer
Please fill in the gap, cause I can't figure it out. :P Strider doesn't count. Hes a lowsec scrub like me.
all are scrubs |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
163
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:16:00 -
[617] - Quote
I never understood why you wanted mwd on drones anyways.
Makes them clunk around when trying to engage fast targets.
Take this opportunity to remove drone mwd and give em high top speeds on the order of maybe upto 8k for t2 warriors. Make there agility somewhat less that a typical fast frig.
Frig runs in a straight line it gets gunned down. Frig evades, drones have trouble keeping up.
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Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:17:00 -
[618] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills is hardly going to make drone usage less skill-intensive, since it's gonna add one more week of training (unless Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation will have 1x traning time multiplier, which I think would be more appropriate than 2x). Yes, I know you could train Combat Drone Operation V to make this issue non-relevant, but there'll be newer players and maybe even your alts coming to EVE after this change and this will affect them.
This inconsistency between "We want to make it less skill intensive" and "we're moving the training from a 1x skill into two 2x skills" is one of my problems with these proposed changes. i'm still baffled that there's been absolutely no attempt to address the issues around which skills are actually going to unlock light and medium drones. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
242
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:30:00 -
[619] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Tippia wrote: It's like this:
Before: Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù1.8 (Drone Interfacing IV) +ù1.05 (Sentry Interfacing I) = 151.2 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 50 damage +ù1.60 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 200 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 50 damage +ù1.92 modifier +ù2 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 240 damage at max skills.
After: Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.4 (DI IV) +ù1.05 (SI I) = 159.9 damage at minimum skills. Garde I GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) = 204 damage at max skills. Garde II GÇö 64 damage +ù1.7 modifier +ù1.5 (DI V) +ù1.25 (SI V) +ù1.1 (Gal. Drone Spec V) = 224.4 damage at max skills.
T1 becomes 2% better at maxed skills (6% better at minimum skills); T2 becomes 6.5% worse at max skills (and max skills requires more SP).
So my exploration Ishtar is going to do 748 DPS instead of its current 800 DPS, assuming I train for 19 days to get Gallente spec up to 5. That blows. Starting to look like its gonna take 19 days and 400mil in faction DDAs to make my Garde IIs perform the same as they do now. And I still won't be able to control them via F1-F5 like any other weapon in game. Or move around while using them. Arg. Given the cost of T2 sentries and the training needed to get to Sentry V to qualify, I can see the use of T2 sentries dropping off as more and more newer players look at it and decide to stick with T1. T2 probably are barely worth it under new rules unless you already have them trained. If I get the gist of the original blog what they wanted is new players to be able to train interfacing to IV and Sentry to IV and still be almost as effective as a fully skilled player. Currently taking those two skills from IV to V gives you something like a 50% total damage hike.
With sentry drone interfacing 4(5%), drone interfacing 4(10%) and without the spec skill(10%) you will be 25% under the max dps. 25% is still a very big amount of dps(comparable to useing meta 4 guns with faction ammo to T2 ones with max dps T2 ammo) and well worth getting, plus the extra range, HP and tracking on T2 sentry drones is a extreme good improvement over T1 without even looking at the extra dps. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:47:00 -
[620] - Quote
The Djego wrote:
With sentry drone interfacing 4(5%), drone interfacing 4(10%) and without the spec skill(10%) you will be 25% under the max dps. 25% is still a very big amount of dps(comparable to useing meta 4 guns with faction ammo to T2 ones with max dps T2 ammo) and well worth getting, plus the extra range, HP and tracking on T2 sentry drones is a extreme good improvement over T1 without even looking at the extra dps.
True, but then there's the Faction Sentries with equal dps (without the racial 10%) and range, but better EHP and tracking.
FW loyalty point stores needed a buff, right |
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
242
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 12:49:00 -
[621] - Quote
Well if you have drone interfacing 5 and sentry drone interfacing 5 you can already use t2, so at the point you could use them nearly as effective as T2, you can also use T2.
Faction sentry drones are very good but if you lose 25M every time you have to gtfo in a sentry ship in pvp, you might consider skill for T2.
Edit: I even agree that the improvements to faction sentry range are excellent, since with them it finally only comes down to raw dps vs tracking/EHP(and a bit more ISK) if you chose between T2 and faction sentry drones, for a specific task.
Edit2: There might be a reason why I had a lot of suggestions(that where all ignored) during the introduction of faction drones 3 years ago and now CCP actually addressing most of the flaws I pointed out back in the days, that they should be rather a good option compared to T2 drones, depending on what you want to do, instead of becoming pointless the second you can use T2 drones. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:09:00 -
[622] - Quote
The Djego wrote:Well if you have drone interfacing 5 and sentry drone interfacing 5 you can already use t2, so at the point you could use them nearly as effective as T2, you can also use T2. Faction sentry drones are very good but if you lose 25M every time you have to gtfo in a sentry ship in pvp, you might consider skill for T2. Edit: I even agree that the improvements to faction sentry range are excellent, since with them it finally only comes down to raw dps vs tracking/EHP(and a bit more ISK) if you chose between T2 and faction sentry drones, for a specific task.
Point is that I'm not certain how lucrative the T2 dps "advantage" is, especially considering the training time you need to get the full 10%. 8% is not much when you have less tracking. Without racial specs to at least IV, you're probably better off using faction drones. All specs at V is what, about two months of training with optimized attributes and +5s.
Which will make cloaky stabbed FW farmers very happy indeed.
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seth Hendar
I love you miners
513
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:09:00 -
[623] - Quote
Aerozzz wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:I'm kind of wondering though just how much two extra low slots for tank actually helps these small guys when their supers get caught. The TRI super you recently tackled probably wouldn't have survived the DDs from the titans, if he had 2 less tank modules in the lows. seth Hendar wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: stuff...
pl ranting about isboxer.....like really? it's not like pl is using it massively.....hint: PHEW 1 guy in PL uses isboxeer -> .... -> Grath shouldn't rant about isboxer Please fill in the gap, cause I can't figure it out. :P there are more than one, just this is the one i came accross on a regular basis |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
242
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:24:00 -
[624] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:The Djego wrote:Well if you have drone interfacing 5 and sentry drone interfacing 5 you can already use t2, so at the point you could use them nearly as effective as T2, you can also use T2. Faction sentry drones are very good but if you lose 25M every time you have to gtfo in a sentry ship in pvp, you might consider skill for T2. Edit: I even agree that the improvements to faction sentry range are excellent, since with them it finally only comes down to raw dps vs tracking/EHP(and a bit more ISK) if you chose between T2 and faction sentry drones, for a specific task. Point is that I'm not certain how lucrative the T2 dps "advantage" is, especially considering the training time you need to get the full 10%. 8% is not much when you have less tracking. Without racial specs to at least IV, you're probably better off using faction drones. All specs at V is what, about two months of training with optimized attributes and +5s. Which will make cloaky stabbed FW farmers very happy indeed.
Well a T2 sentry cost you 1.2-1.5M, a faction one 5-6.5M each. If you carry 2 waves on a drone boat this means a extra 40M just in drones, what is a considerable cost in pvp. Also since you don't have Sentry drone Interfacing to 5 at the point you use faction ones for skill reasons the difference is 13-15%, what is still a lot(I got mini and gallente spec on 5 on multiple chars, because you will use a set of light mini or gallente drones on nearly every ship you fly). I never looked back at training sentry drone spec to 5 on any of my chars, it is fairly comparable with training a large turret spec to 5 in usefulness and saves tons of ISK whenever you lose some sentry drones or the hole ship.
Btw Fozzy has yet to decide what to do with caladri and amarr drones, the changes so far are not useful enough, caldari sentry's have a super long range niche(maybe for mjd BS) and while amarr sentry drones gain some ground, only useful changes to the other drones as well would give a good reason to put the skill to 5. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
14
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:26:00 -
[625] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote: Point is that I'm not certain how lucrative the T2 dps "advantage" is, especially considering the training time you need to get the full 10%. 8% is not much when you have less tracking. Without racial specs to at least IV, you're probably better off using faction drones.
Exactly - with this new patch, the motivation to train from tech1/faction (which is in many cases equal-to or even superior to tech2 sentries, not counting the racial spec skills) to tech2 sentries diminishes greatly.
For a PVP-oriented sentry pilot, there will likely be *zero* motivation to train for tech2 sentries--and for those of us who did train for tech2's, our training time investment has largely gone down the proverbial drain.
This is a point I have tried to articulate repeatedly in this thread. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
242
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:38:00 -
[626] - Quote
Currently with the lack of range there was nearly never a good reason to use faction sentry drones in pvp for people that can use T2s already and not everyone getting all her stuff from her alliance SRP, if you have to stuff another 40M in every domi or Ishar you pvp with, you might think about investing the extra 20 days, what gives you 5% more dps with both, what still leaves you the faction option but also gives you a high dps T2 option, what is cheaper and more frequently available in low sec and 0.0 on the markets.
Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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stoicfaux
4382
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 13:53:00 -
[627] - Quote
In other words, by making Faction drones just as good as, if not better, than T2 drones in terms of accessibility (i.e. skill training time,) CCP has indirectly nerfed the null-sec cartels' shadow CSM's moon goo income by reducing the market for T2 sentry drones.
Who wants to give Dinsdale the good news that CCP is on the side of high-sec?
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1123
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 14:10:00 -
[628] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:BraiZure Harloon wrote:On the smaller scale did I miss a modification to drone damage based ships? If not looks like I'm getting closer to quitting eve, because my max skill Arbitrator just got it's DPS cut by over a 25%. Hammer Head IIs x5 +33% base damage increase -50% Drone Interfacing = -27%. Please tell me I am missing something or my math is wrong because last I checked anything over a 25% damage reduction is a total nerf? On a side note I saw nothing about removing or reducing stacking penalty from Ewar and Combat Util drones leaving them still useless. Your math is flawed. Currently you can look at the way drone interfacing interacts with base drone damage as: 1 x 2 = 2 After this change it will be: 1.33(repeating) x 1.5 = 2
Is 1.9999 repeating the same thing as 2? |
Abigail Sagan
Skeleton Liberation Front
50
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 14:20:00 -
[629] - Quote
seller1122 wrote:I'm sure its must have been mentioned else where in the thread but i do not believe this cause caldari or amarr drones to be used more.
The issue is the gall are best for dps and the mintar are best for speed, there is never really a situation where you'd need to go for a mid-ground solution.
Ideally you would want to make the ammar drones identical to the mintar ones but using em instead of explosive and you would want to be make the caldari ones identical to the gall except kinetic. That way you would have a true choice of damage types to be dealing based upon your situation.
Too long, didn't read. Rebalance the drones already! .. Oh, this is actually about drone rebalance. Finally! After reading it all, we can however see that the Amarr and Caldari drones won't still have any use - like many have said here already.
Here is my solution suggestion for the regular Amarr/Caldari drone suckage (exactly the same as seller1122's apparently and shares some similarities with Tippia's on page 6):
Amarr/Minmatar light drones share the same stats except for damage type at high speed and low damage end. Caldari and Gallente light drones share their stats similarly at the low speed and high damage end. Repeat the process with medium and heavy drones.
I chose Amarr to pair up with Minmatar, because both target a defense weakness (EM vs most Shields, EX vs most Armor). Caldari was paired with Gallente just because they don't have any especially vulnerable targets and there is nobody else to pair them with.
Pro: All the regular drones would have their use. Con: Duplicated stats. .. but at least all the regular drones would have their use. That is not the case with CCP's plan.
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9609
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 14:53:00 -
[630] - Quote
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
85
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 14:56:00 -
[631] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Good call, I don't really see any problems with this, other than the possibility of someone training up combat drone operation I and scout drone operation V in order to get the best possible return. I'll probably be doing that on a couple of my alts-in-training, to be honest. |
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CCP Lebowski
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:04:00 -
[632] - Quote
You sir, are asking the real questions here!
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/ccp_lebowski |
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Maz3r Rakum
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
46
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:05:00 -
[633] - Quote
Not sure if this is mentioned elsewhere, but seeing the Sentry Damage Rig changed to a Drone Damage rig would make a lot of sense (or merely add a combat drone damage rig).
Before DDA, the Sentry Damage Rig was the only way to increase any drone's dps (limited to sentries of course). Now that drones have similar mods to the other weapons, it would make sense that all combat drones have a similar t2 rig. |
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society Affirmative.
329
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:06:00 -
[634] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Which skill will now cover Drone Link Augmentors? Will that move over to the Avionics skill?
Heh, just noticed "Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor" is already listed there, as only module that requires Scout Drone Operation. |
Callisto Helix
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:07:00 -
[635] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, I have Scout Drone Operation V & Combat Drone Operation IV currently. When the expansion goes live I'll have Light & Medium Drone Operation both at V? |
Altaen
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
113
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:12:00 -
[636] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Will Drone Interfacing still be 5x training multiplier in it's new diminished form? |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2039
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:19:00 -
[637] - Quote
Mostly good changes
Now can we have drone AI that isn't composed of a few simple scripts? :P BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Rikard Nomm
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:20:00 -
[638] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
great. wasted a day of training on 2 characters plugging in CDO V yesterday and both already have SDO V. now im at work and cant stop it for the rest of the day.
whelp, DI V, Sentry V, Heavy V are feeling like a bit of wasted SP on my 13m SP char now and now i get to burn 2 more days on a skill that i dont need at all! Yay! |
Cisen Ormand
4 Marketeers Rura-Penthe
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:29:00 -
[639] - Quote
Quote:Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, I have Scout Drone Operation V & Combat Drone Operation IV currently. When the expansion goes live I'll have Light & Medium Drone Operation both at V?
I also would like conformation on this. I am in the same situation (scout drone op 5, combat drone op 4.)
After the update Ill have light and medium drone op both at 5 and now will suddenly be able to fit the T2 drone link augmenter?
Please confirm. Thanks. |
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
25
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 15:52:00 -
[640] - Quote
Rikard Nomm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. great. wasted a day of training on 2 characters plugging in CDO V yesterday and both already have SDO V. now im at work and cant stop it for the rest of the day. whelp, DI V, Sentry V, Heavy V are feeling like a bit of wasted SP on my 13m SP char now and now i get to burn 2 more days on a skill that i dont need at all! Yay!
This. Put in CDO V to get ahead of the patch like when they separated the BC skill into racials. I can say Rikard that once you reach a certain number of skill points, losing 1 day doesn't really matter and you come to cherish the times when it only takes a week to train the skill to V
On an unrelated note this whole thread has been rather amusing. |
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Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
86
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:01:00 -
[641] - Quote
Cisen Ormand wrote:Quote:Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, I have Scout Drone Operation V & Combat Drone Operation IV currently. When the expansion goes live I'll have Light & Medium Drone Operation both at V? I also would like conformation on this. I am in the same situation (scout drone op 5, combat drone op 4.) After the update Ill have light and medium drone op both at 5 and now will suddenly be able to fit the T2 drone link augmenter? Please confirm. Thanks.
They haven't said what will unlock the link augmenter after the change, I'm curious about that in particular. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20440
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:29:00 -
[642] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:They haven't said what will unlock the link augmenter after the change, I'm curious about that in particular. Drone Avionics, most likely, since it ties in with what the actual module does GÇö same as now. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
705
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:34:00 -
[643] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
you have barely answered any questions in this thread ...
- drone control range can you increase it? (i went into more detail in another post) and add it to attributes tab please - can we have drones being fixed in dronebay? maybe using nanite paste kinda like burnt guns etc.. - can we have more drone skills? falloff, orbit velocity, tracking etc.. - how about drones op/falloff (i went into more detail in another post) and shield/armour HP values reflecting their actual races? - will you sort out the excessive sig radius on drones?
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
705
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:35:00 -
[644] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Cisen Ormand wrote:Quote:Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, I have Scout Drone Operation V & Combat Drone Operation IV currently. When the expansion goes live I'll have Light & Medium Drone Operation both at V? I also would like conformation on this. I am in the same situation (scout drone op 5, combat drone op 4.) After the update Ill have light and medium drone op both at 5 and now will suddenly be able to fit the T2 drone link augmenter? Please confirm. Thanks. They haven't said what will unlock the link augmenter after the change, I'm curious about that in particular.
the DLA's should really use the new drone avionics skill
DLA T1 - drone avionics DLA T2 - advanced drone avionics Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
266
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:42:00 -
[645] - Quote
Harvey James wrote: - drone control range can you increase it? (i went into more detail in another post) and add it to attributes tab please
With sentry-fit carriers stacking Drone Link Augmentors and Omnidirectional Tracking Links, sentries were able to project damage out to 170km. It's unlikely that an increase to base drone range is in the cards. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20440
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:43:00 -
[646] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:the DLA's should really use the new drone avionics skill
DLA T1 - drone avionics DLA T2 - advanced drone avionics There's no reason why the requirements should change from what they are now. It's still the same module relying on the same skill GÇö only the name has changed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Rikard Nomm
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:47:00 -
[647] - Quote
Ruric Thyase wrote:Rikard Nomm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. great. wasted a day of training on 2 characters plugging in CDO V yesterday and both already have SDO V. now im at work and cant stop it for the rest of the day. whelp, DI V, Sentry V, Heavy V are feeling like a bit of wasted SP on my 13m SP char now and now i get to burn 2 more days on a skill that i dont need at all! Yay! This. Put in CDO V to get ahead of the patch like when they separated the BC skill into racials. I can say Rikard that once you reach a certain number of skill points, losing 1 day doesn't really matter and you come to cherish the times when it only takes a week to train the skill to V On an unrelated note this whole thread has been rather amusing.
im not too bummed about a day or 2. its just like an extra kick while your already down. Ive put off training for a few commonly flown corp doctrines to finish out my drone skills due to my current attribute map and now its all feeling a bit wasted. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
705
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:48:00 -
[648] - Quote
Querns wrote:Harvey James wrote: - drone control range can you increase it? (i went into more detail in another post) and add it to attributes tab please
With sentry-fit carriers stacking Drone Link Augmentors and Omnidirectional Tracking Links, sentries were able to project damage out to 170km. It's unlikely that an increase to base drone range is in the cards.
well they can easily remove some highs from carriers if they want Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Kadar Yassavi
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 16:54:00 -
[649] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Maybe you should reimburse the skill points of the skill that won't be used for the convertion.
For example if I have Scout Drone Operation to V and Combat Drone Operation to IV, the new skills will be adjusted to my Scout Drone Operation skill level and the skillpoints of my Combat Drone Operation skill will go to the allocatable skillpoint pool. And if we have both at V currently of course you should reimburse the skillpoints of the higher ranked Combat Drone Operations (of course! :D).
That way it won't feel like you've wasted skill time in the past if you maxed both skills. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
352
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:02:00 -
[650] - Quote
Jet get rid of the racial differences between the drones. Give them the same base speed, tracking, damage, etc. then make the racial specs affect different stats based on racial characteristics.
Gallente Drone Spec - 5% per level to all drone tracking speed Minmatar Drone Spec - 5% per level to all drone falloff Amarr Drone Spec - 4% per level to all drone armor resists Caldari Drone Spec - 4% per level to all drone shield resists http://eveion.blogspot.com/ |
|
Pesadel0
the muppets DARKNESS.
84
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:08:00 -
[651] - Quote
Javon Bars wrote:So previously shield-based supercapitals were already the strongest supers in the game. You "balance" this by making them even stronger?
Sounds legit.
I think the biggest joke is the dev saying that grath doesn't know how to sov grind works and then saying that the intended fix was to boost the caldari super ,thinking that she was the worst super, and admitting that she needed a buff.
Holly crap ....
To summarize the thread the shield supers will be top dog for now because they can have more damage and have more tank .
Fine by me i will just switch to shield supers , overpowered suits me fine. |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS.
33
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:09:00 -
[652] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. This sound like a sanction to the players, who have both skills trained to 5. Just simple 1:1 would be enough Imho. Or reimburse the lost training time with SP, I train one rank 1 skill to lvl 5 and rank 2 to lvl 1 and will be getting rank 1 and rank 2 skill lvl 5? Thats 500k SP difference (aprox). I dont see how u could justify this, without reimbursing the players with proper training. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20440
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:09:00 -
[653] - Quote
Kadar Yassavi wrote:That way it won't feel like you've wasted skill time in the past if you maxed both skills. The only way for you to have wasted any time was if you never actually used the skills. No matter what, you will come out ahead in this deal. If some people come out GÇ£more aheadGÇ¥ than others, so what? If you trained those skills, your drones were better GÇö they were never a waste.
Asking or a refund of SP when you're already getting at least 50% more than you had before is a bit sillyGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Masao Kurata
Z List
48
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:20:00 -
[654] - Quote
Icylce wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. This sound like a sanction to the players, who have both skills trained to 5. Just simple 1:1 would be enough Imho. Or reimburse the lost training time with SP, I train one rank 1 skill to lvl 5 and rank 2 to lvl 1 and will be getting rank 1 and rank 2 skill lvl 5? Thats 500k SP difference (aprox). I dont see how u could justify this, without reimbursing the players with proper training.
Kindly think about how bad it is for players who start playing AFTER this patch. They will have to invest 1,024,000 SP to get the same skills as you put in 768,000 for so don't ask for SP reimbursement on top of that advantage. |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS.
33
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:32:00 -
[655] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Icylce wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. This sound like a sanction to the players, who have both skills trained to 5. Just simple 1:1 would be enough Imho. Or reimburse the lost training time with SP, I train one rank 1 skill to lvl 5 and rank 2 to lvl 1 and will be getting rank 1 and rank 2 skill lvl 5? Thats 500k SP difference (aprox). I dont see how u could justify this, without reimbursing the players with proper training. Kindly think about how bad it is for players who start playing AFTER this patch. They will have to invest 1,024,000 SP to get the same skills as you put in 768,000 for so don't ask for SP reimbursement on top of that advantage.
Thats why this solution is bad. As u pointed out The players who join after patch will have to train 1024k instead of 768k I did for example. But others may have trained only 256k sp and will be getting the same amoun as I will. This is bad sollution and if they go this route, I feel they should reimburse the players who invested their time to train up.
However I do believe that they should distribute the skills in 1:1 ratio., meaning they would give u "just" the same lvl of the skill of coresponding rank u had already trained. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
634
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:34:00 -
[656] - Quote
Harvey James wrote: well they can easily remove some highs from carriers if they want
Would rather gimp triage carriers if they did that enough to make any odds in regards to drone control units so not so easily really.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20440
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:38:00 -
[657] - Quote
Icylce wrote:Thats why this solution is bad. As u pointed out The players who join after patch will have to train 1024k instead of 768k I did for example. But others may have trained only 256k sp and will be getting the same amoun as I will. This is bad sollution and if they go this route, I feel they should reimburse the players who invested their time to train up.
However I do believe that they should distribute the skills in 1:1 ratio., meaning they would give u "just" the same lvl of the skill of coresponding rank u had already trained. Removing ability from players is a far worse solution than giving some people 512k SP and others GÇ£onlyGÇ¥ 256k. No matter what, you come out ahead. No matter what, the skills you trained weren't wasted.
Since you don't lose any abilities, there's really nothing to reimburse. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Oddsodz
The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare.
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:45:00 -
[658] - Quote
Quote:all Supercarriers will receive a 100% damage bonus to Fighter and Fighter Bomber damage,
Does the mean that to Sansha variant Supercarrier The Revenant be getting a buff of an extra 100% damage bonus on top of the current one it has right now?
If I am right, This would mean that it will become worth owning for its damage output and not just a 300bill toy of pride ;-)
Or I am bad at Eve numbers? |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS.
33
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:47:00 -
[659] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Icylce wrote:Thats why this solution is bad. As u pointed out The players who join after patch will have to train 1024k instead of 768k I did for example. But others may have trained only 256k sp and will be getting the same amoun as I will. This is bad sollution and if they go this route, I feel they should reimburse the players who invested their time to train up.
However I do believe that they should distribute the skills in 1:1 ratio., meaning they would give u "just" the same lvl of the skill of coresponding rank u had already trained. Removing ability from players is a far worse solution than giving some people 512k SP and others GÇ£onlyGÇ¥ 256k. No matter what, you come out ahead. No matter what, the skills you trained weren't wasted. Since you don't lose any abilities, there's really nothing to reimburse. They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries. Skills were not but the time was. And time is the most valuable resource. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2039
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:48:00 -
[660] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote: You sir, are asking the real questions here!
Yes
CCP should add LaTeX support for the forums so that i can post a proof for that =< BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
|
Masao Kurata
Z List
49
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:53:00 -
[661] - Quote
Icylce wrote:Tippia wrote:Icylce wrote:Thats why this solution is bad. As u pointed out The players who join after patch will have to train 1024k instead of 768k I did for example. But others may have trained only 256k sp and will be getting the same amoun as I will. This is bad sollution and if they go this route, I feel they should reimburse the players who invested their time to train up.
However I do believe that they should distribute the skills in 1:1 ratio., meaning they would give u "just" the same lvl of the skill of coresponding rank u had already trained. Removing ability from players is a far worse solution than giving some people 512k SP and others GÇ£onlyGÇ¥ 256k. No matter what, you come out ahead. No matter what, the skills you trained weren't wasted. Since you don't lose any abilities, there's really nothing to reimburse. They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries. Skills were not but the time was. And time is the most valuable resource.
Oh come on, who trains sentry drone interfacing V (5x) but not scout drone operation V (1x)? |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
86
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:56:00 -
[662] - Quote
Especially since sentries really benefit from the drone control range |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS.
33
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:56:00 -
[663] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Icylce wrote:Tippia wrote:Icylce wrote:Thats why this solution is bad. As u pointed out The players who join after patch will have to train 1024k instead of 768k I did for example. But others may have trained only 256k sp and will be getting the same amoun as I will. This is bad sollution and if they go this route, I feel they should reimburse the players who invested their time to train up.
However I do believe that they should distribute the skills in 1:1 ratio., meaning they would give u "just" the same lvl of the skill of coresponding rank u had already trained. Removing ability from players is a far worse solution than giving some people 512k SP and others GÇ£onlyGÇ¥ 256k. No matter what, you come out ahead. No matter what, the skills you trained weren't wasted. Since you don't lose any abilities, there's really nothing to reimburse. They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries. Skills were not but the time was. And time is the most valuable resource. Oh come on, who trains sentry drone interfacing V (5x) but not scout drone operation V (1x)? Sentry V wont be enought for t 2 sentries after the patch. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
86
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 17:59:00 -
[664] - Quote
Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills? |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2549
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:00:00 -
[665] - Quote
hmmm
- across the board buff for t1 drones - faction drones, integrated drones now have a reason to exist. Augmented drones getting buffed above t2, which is a buff to drone sites and to drone users. - slight reduction in the necessity of drone interfacing 5 without messing anything up - renaming skills to be more sensible - fixing the nonsense values regarding minmatar/amarr drones that have been an obvious anomaly since forever - buff to medium/heavy mwd speed - sentry damage buffed by racial specialization - bouncer damage reduced slightly, curator damage increased. This makes sense. - curator falloff removed They do have good optimal range though. They still have faloff on the spreasheet however. - lowslot drone tracking mods, faction DDAs and more faction omnis and navi comps. Drones are now even better in PVE. - 6km extra falloff on garde ii's is a big deal, as it makes the nerf to omnidirectionals much less painful. - gigantic buff to fighters, which is probably good. CCP decided to make fighters more attractive rather than castrate sentries.
Everything looks fantastic. Only a few things went unaddressed:
- No mention of updates to drone UI. - No mention at all of drone control range mechanics. - Nothing about light/med/heavy drones tracking/optimal/hp. Only velocity/damage were discussed, and gallente has the worst tracking among these drones. I guess this is all intended. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Masao Kurata
Z List
49
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:02:00 -
[666] - Quote
Well I could believe there are players who don't have the specific racial drone skills for the T2 sentries they use (e.g. T2 curators without amarr drone spec), but not ones without scout drone operation V. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
267
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:02:00 -
[667] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote: CCP should add LaTeX support for the forums so that i can post a proof for that =<
Hell yes. CCP, drop everything and add this immediately. What could go wrong? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS.
33
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:02:00 -
[668] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills? I know quite few |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20440
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:02:00 -
[669] - Quote
Icylce wrote:They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries. GǪand that is a bad solution, but it won't affect all that many and the loss is absolutely minimal since you need at most 5,000 SP to get them back again.
Quote:Skills were not but the time was. No, no time was lost. You got the advantages from the time you spent, and they did not. Now you're getting even more from the time you spent, so no time is lost there either.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS.
33
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:11:00 -
[670] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Icylce wrote:They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries. GǪand that is a bad solution, but it won't affect all that many and the loss is absolutely minimal since you need at most 5,000 SP to get them back again. Quote:Skills were not but the time was. No, no time was lost. You got the advantages from the time you spent, and they did not. Now you're getting even more from the time you spent, so no time is lost there either.
How can u claim no time was lost. If we take 2 players with same amount of sp at the patchday, who started playing the same day one with both skills at 5, one with rank 1 skill at 5 and rank to at 1. After the patchday, the second player has 500k sp more. first player has actually lost 7-8 days.
The sollution proposed in devblog was allright and fair to current players:
" During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to."
THIS however is wrong:
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
|
|
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:12:00 -
[671] - Quote
Icylce wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills? I know quite few
Why would you put the time in to use T2 sentries without being able to use at least T2 smalls? |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS.
33
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:14:00 -
[672] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Icylce wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills? I know quite few Why would you put the time in to use T2 sentries without being able to use at least T2 smalls? Dont ask me ask them:) |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:15:00 -
[673] - Quote
Icylce wrote:Tippia wrote:Icylce wrote:They already are removing ability of player to use t2 sentries. GǪand that is a bad solution, but it won't affect all that many and the loss is absolutely minimal since you need at most 5,000 SP to get them back again. Quote:Skills were not but the time was. No, no time was lost. You got the advantages from the time you spent, and they did not. Now you're getting even more from the time you spent, so no time is lost there either. How can u claim no time was lost. If we take 2 players with same amount of sp at the patchday, who started playing the same day one with both skills at 5, one with rank 1 skill at 5 and rank to at 1. After the patchday, the second player has 500k sp more. first player has actually lost 7-8 days. The sollution proposed in devblog was allright and fair to current players: " During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to." THIS however is wrong: CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
So you'd rather have a situation where someone loses the ability to use T2 or even T1 drones that they were perfectly capable of deploying before the patch?
Yes, this is still happening with the sentries, but it's a smaller difference in training and you also wouldn't ever lose the ability to use T1. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:16:00 -
[674] - Quote
Icylce wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Icylce wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills? I know quite few Why would you put the time in to use T2 sentries without being able to use at least T2 smalls? Dont ask me ask them:)
Go and ask them, then. Get them to come and post here. I don't hang out with these people, you do. |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Gank for Profit
79
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:18:00 -
[675] - Quote
Batelle wrote:hmmm - across the board buff for t1 drones - faction drones, integrated drones now have a reason to exist. Augmented drones getting buffed above t2, which is a buff to drone sites and to drone users. - slight reduction in the necessity of drone interfacing 5 without messing anything up - renaming skills to be more sensible - fixing the nonsense values regarding minmatar/amarr drones that have been an obvious anomaly since forever - buff to medium/heavy mwd speed - sentry damage buffed by racial specialization - bouncer damage reduced slightly, curator damage increased. This makes sense. - curator falloff removed They do have good optimal range though. They still have faloff on the spreasheet however.- lowslot drone tracking mods, faction DDAs and more faction omnis and navi comps. Drones are now even better in PVE. - 6km extra falloff on garde ii's is a big deal, as it makes the nerf to omnidirectionals much less painful. - gigantic buff to fighters, which is probably good. CCP decided to make fighters more attractive rather than castrate sentries. Everything looks fantastic. Only a few things went unaddressed: - No mention of updates to drone UI. - No mention at all of drone control range mechanics. - Nothing about light/med/heavy drones tracking/optimal/hp. Only velocity/damage were discussed, and gallente has the worst tracking among these drones. I guess this is all intended. garde II's are being nerfed by ~50dps currator II's buffed by ~51dps bouncer II's nerfed by ~38dps warden II's bufferd by ~15dps (5 sentry 3dda drone bonused ship) nothing has been said about ewar drones Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20440
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:22:00 -
[676] - Quote
Icylce wrote:How can u claim no time was lost. Simple: because the time you spent went to giving you fairly significant advantages that you otherwise wouldn't have and because what you gain from this switch-over is sufficient recompense.
Yes, you could have skipped over, say, training CDO and now get those bonuses anyway, but guess what? Your drones would then have been 20% worse for upwards of a decade. That's a lot of damage output to miss out on over a very long period of time GÇö all so you could GÇ£saveGÇ¥ 512k SP. The skills were worth training for the advantages they brought. The time was therefore not lost. You also get to keep the bonuses you bought with your training, so again, the time was not lost. At no point do you end up with less than you have; in almost all cases, you end up with more. Loss never enters the picture.
The only way for the time to be lost is if you trained the skills and never used them or if the bonuses were being removed. If it's the former, then that's your own fault; if it's the latter thenGǪ who cares, because it's not what's happening. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
817
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:31:00 -
[677] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote: You sir, are asking the real questions here! If you want an answer, ask yourself this. What number exists between 1.9 repeating and 2? |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
862
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:36:00 -
[678] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Ok, so what is it? Is it Scout Drone or Combat Drone Operation? And why wouldn't that be mentioned in the Dev Blog? The only thing the blog references is Combat Drone Operation skill, and it's clear as day here:
CCP Fozzie wrote:During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to. . . Finally, we are renaming two drone skills to clarify their roles. The Scout Drone Operation skill is being renamed GÇ£Drone Avionics.GÇ¥
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Jen Takhesis
The Scope Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:40:00 -
[679] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:CCP Lebowski wrote: You sir, are asking the real questions here! If you want an answer, ask yourself this. What number exists between 1.9 repeating and 2?
1.99 repeating. Ha! Got ya! |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 18:42:00 -
[680] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Ok, so what is it? Is it Scout Drone or Combat Drone Operation? And why wouldn't that be mentioned in the Dev Blog? The only thing the blog references is Combat Drone Operation skill, and it's clear as day here: CCP Fozzie wrote:During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to. . . Finally, we are renaming two drone skills to clarify their roles. The Scout Drone Operation skill is being renamed GÇ£Drone Avionics.GÇ¥
If you have Scout Drone Operation at a higher level than you have Combat Drone Operation at, then you will get the new skills at the level of SDO. If you don't, then you will get them at the level of CDO. It's not that hard to follow.
The blog does say that, but Fozzie is correcting that in this thread. |
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Icylce
The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS.
33
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:02:00 -
[681] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Icylce wrote:How can u claim no time was lost. Simple: because the time you spent went to giving you fairly significant advantages that you otherwise wouldn't have and because what you gain from this switch-over is sufficient recompense. Yes, you could have skipped over, say, training CDO and now get those bonuses anyway, but guess what? Your drones would then have been 20% worse for upwards of a decade. That's a lot of damage output to miss out on over a very long period of time GÇö all so you could GÇ£saveGÇ¥ 512k SP. The skills were worth training for the advantages they brought. The time was therefore not lost. You also get to keep the bonuses you bought with your training, so again, the time was not lost. At no point do you end up with less than you have; in almost all cases, you end up with more. Loss never enters the picture. The only way for the time to be lost is if you trained the skills and never used them or if the bonuses were being removed. If it's the former, then that's your own fault; if it's the latter thenGǪ who cares, because it's not what's happening. The only downside with the chosen solution is that some poor soul might end up with a higher clone grade, and that's it.
Time is not measured in usefulness or opportunity. If one day 2 chars with 100 days worth od training wake up with differend days worth of training then the time was lost.
Erasmus Phoenix wrote: So you'd rather have a situation where someone loses the ability to use T2 or even T1 drones that they were perfectly capable of deploying before the patch?
Yes, this is still happening with the sentries, but it's a smaller difference in training and you also wouldn't ever lose the ability to use T1.
Well, then make the scout drone operation the required t2 skills as it was and change the new skills to dmg effect only. Problem solved.
|
Mexicantis
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:04:00 -
[682] - Quote
Instead of using a straight line to balance the combat drones why not use a diamond shape to really differentiate them. Treat them like you would a rebalanced ship and split them off into specialisations. For example, keep Gallente as the damage dealers regardless of resists- not very good range, Caldari have great range - not very good dps, keep Minnies nice and fast but replace their damage with a good web bonus or a tracking disruptor and Ammar can be really good at sucking out cap or make them the anti-drone drones etc. Get rid of all the other ewar drones, or make those even more specialised, I donGÇÖt recall ever seeing any one ever use them except for the ecm, but everybody hates those anyway so no great loss.
Give me a reason to pick and choose between different roles as I do now with the newly rebalanced ships. As the changes stand there is still no reason for me to want to use the "slightly" slower drone or the one that does "slightly" less damage. Like Tippia said Eve is a world of extremes, IGÇÖll always want to use the thing that does the most of something, everything in between is just pointless riffraff.
Try out something bold and brave, if it doesnGÇÖt work you can always change it again or push that revert or rollback button in Perforce or whatever backup system you guys use.
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Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
89
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:06:00 -
[683] - Quote
I wouldn't exactly be opposed to that, but this does bring light/medium drones in line with the way the other sizes work. It does create weirdness with ewar drones, which Fozzie hasn't said anything about yet.
On the other hand, I entirely disagree with what you're saying about losing time. You have had the benefit of the skills you trained.
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Varesk
Carried Hate
540
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:07:00 -
[684] - Quote
Tippia wrote: Removing ability from players is a far worse solution than giving some people 512k SP and others GÇ£onlyGÇ¥ 256k. No matter what, you come out ahead. No matter what, the skills you trained weren't wasted.
Since you don't lose any abilities, there's really nothing to reimburse.
This. Eventually you will get to a point where you say
1) what do I train now?
or
2) sweet, I have that trained already.
either way you are not wasting time or skill points.
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:19:00 -
[685] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Icylce wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills? I know quite few Why would you put the time in to use T2 sentries without being able to use at least T2 smalls?
For what purpose would you want to use t2 smalls outside pvp if you want to use sentrys?
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Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2549
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:23:00 -
[686] - Quote
oh boo hoo i spent a week training combat drone operation 5 for that extra 5% on my warriors and now other people won't have to. I think we'll all live.
And reducing the spec requirement to 1 for all drones is a good solution. If you lose the ability to launch your curators this summer then I have no sympathy for you. Go buy a damn skillbook and take 1 hour out of your busy training schedule. You have months to do so.
Also lol at dinsdale crying about how this is so terrible when its by and large a buff to drones by just about every conceivable metric. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1064
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:23:00 -
[687] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Icylce wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills? I know quite few Why would you put the time in to use T2 sentries without being able to use at least T2 smalls? For what purpose would you want to use t2 smalls outside pvp if you want to use sentrys? Close orbiting frigate NPC's?
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:25:00 -
[688] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Icylce wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills? I know quite few Why would you put the time in to use T2 sentries without being able to use at least T2 smalls? For what purpose would you want to use t2 smalls outside pvp if you want to use sentrys? Close orbiting frigate NPC's?
Is it 2011 or something? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1065
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:27:00 -
[689] - Quote
Batelle wrote:oh boo hoo i spent a week training combat drone operation 5 for that extra 5% on my warriors and now other people won't have to. I think we'll all live.
And reducing the spec requirement to 1 for all drones is a good solution. If you lose the ability to launch your curators this summer then I have no sympathy for you. Go buy a damn skillbook and take 1 hour out of your busy training schedule. You have months to do so.
Also lol at dinsdale crying about how this is so terrible when its by and large a buff to drones by just about every conceivable metric. Confused, how is the comparative benefit of combat drone op V going away? Isn't it actually becomeing more valuable to do it now prior to the split? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1065
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:28:00 -
[690] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Is it 2011 or something? Do you MJD for every close orbiting ship? My hobs can finish a couple close orbiters in the time it takes an MJD to spool up.
|
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20447
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:32:00 -
[691] - Quote
Icylce wrote:Time is not measured in usefulness or opportunity. If one day 2 chars with 100 days worth od training wake up with differend days worth of training then the time was lost. No. Unless you lost time GÇö by training stuff that was useless, is rendered useless, or which you never used GÇö you didn't lose time. If other people get GÇ£jumped aheadGÇ¥, you did not lose time.
It's not a zero-sum game. Their gain is not your loss.
If you think that the time was lost, why did you train the skills to begin with? Any answer that amounts to GÇ£oh, but at the timeGǪGÇ¥ means you didn't lose time GÇö you got exactly what you trained for. Unless what you trained for is no longer in the game, you did not lose it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
89
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:32:00 -
[692] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Batelle wrote:oh boo hoo i spent a week training combat drone operation 5 for that extra 5% on my warriors and now other people won't have to. I think we'll all live.
And reducing the spec requirement to 1 for all drones is a good solution. If you lose the ability to launch your curators this summer then I have no sympathy for you. Go buy a damn skillbook and take 1 hour out of your busy training schedule. You have months to do so.
Also lol at dinsdale crying about how this is so terrible when its by and large a buff to drones by just about every conceivable metric. Confused, how is the comparative benefit of combat drone op V going away? Isn't it actually becomeing more valuable to do it now prior to the split?
You can avoid training it entirely if you have Scout Drone Operations trained to V |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1065
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:35:00 -
[693] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Batelle wrote:oh boo hoo i spent a week training combat drone operation 5 for that extra 5% on my warriors and now other people won't have to. I think we'll all live.
And reducing the spec requirement to 1 for all drones is a good solution. If you lose the ability to launch your curators this summer then I have no sympathy for you. Go buy a damn skillbook and take 1 hour out of your busy training schedule. You have months to do so.
Also lol at dinsdale crying about how this is so terrible when its by and large a buff to drones by just about every conceivable metric. Confused, how is the comparative benefit of combat drone op V going away? Isn't it actually becomeing more valuable to do it now prior to the split? You can avoid training it entirely if you have Scout Drone Operations trained to V Maybe I'm missing something, perhaps in a later post by a dev, but I'm not seeing how the changes cause Scout Drone Op to obsolete Combat Drone Op. Rereading now. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20447
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:37:00 -
[694] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, perhaps in a later post by a dev, but I'm not seeing how the changes cause Scout Drone Op to obsolete Combat Drone Op. Rereading now. It's not being obsoleted, as such. It's being flat out removed, and the replacement process is such that you get the same replacement skills if you have SDO V as if you had CDO V.
The highest of the two skills determines what level your newfangled Light Drone and Medium Drone skills will be at. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2550
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:37:00 -
[695] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Is it 2011 or something?
Using a MJD dominix for hisec level 4's is not the only situation in which one would use sentries for pve. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
59
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:40:00 -
[696] - Quote
Slightly unrelated but in the same lines. Could we get kill mails for fighters and fighter bombers with this change please. |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
480
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:40:00 -
[697] - Quote
So why do all the fighters do the same damage but the non-capital drones don't?
If fighters are balanced around speed/tracking/damage type, and not damage as well, why then are the scout/medium/heavy drones done the same way? |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS.
33
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:41:00 -
[698] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Icylce wrote:Time is not measured in usefulness or opportunity. If one day 2 chars with 100 days worth od training wake up with differend days worth of training then the time was lost. No. Unless you lost time GÇö by training stuff that was useless, is rendered useless, or which you never used GÇö you didn't lose timeGǪ it's this tautology somehow manage to miss. If other people get GÇ£jumped aheadGÇ¥, you did not lose time. It's not a zero-sum game. Their gain is not your loss. If you think that the time was lost, why did you train the skills to begin with? Any answer that amounts to GÇ£oh, but at the timeGǪGÇ¥ means you didn't lose time GÇö you got exactly what you trained for. Unless what you trained for is no longer in the game, you did not lose it.
Yes I got exactly what I trained for, but others get more than what they trained for in same timeframe. This happens when u use other than +5 implants and wrong remaps or forget to train the skill. Which is completely acceptable because it is your decision. But proposed change is not your decision and U are losing time even tough other sollution is possbile. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1065
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:42:00 -
[699] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, perhaps in a later post by a dev, but I'm not seeing how the changes cause Scout Drone Op to obsolete Combat Drone Op. Rereading now. It's not being obsoleted, as such. It's being flat out removed, and the replacement process is such that you get the same replacement skills if you have SDO V as if you had CDO V. The highest of the two skills determines what level your newfangled Light Drone and Medium Drone skills will be at. And now I'm even more lost.
From what I understood
SDO is being renamed to Drone Avionics with no functionality change CDO is being split into 2 skills, 1 for lights, 1 for mediums. Much like the BC/Destroyer skill changes it's clearly beneficial to train this up prior to the changes should you anticipate ever using these types of drones.
What I don't see is how the 2 skills intersect. I apologize if I missed a later clarification, but I don't see how CDO became less valuable in itself or how SDO in any way provides the same benefit after the changes as CDO does now. If you can break it down I'd appreciate it. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
89
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:48:00 -
[700] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, perhaps in a later post by a dev, but I'm not seeing how the changes cause Scout Drone Op to obsolete Combat Drone Op. Rereading now. It's not being obsoleted, as such. It's being flat out removed, and the replacement process is such that you get the same replacement skills if you have SDO V as if you had CDO V. The highest of the two skills determines what level your newfangled Light Drone and Medium Drone skills will be at. And now I'm even more lost. From what I understood SDO is being renamed to Drone Avionics with no functionality change CDO is being split into 2 skills, 1 for lights, 1 for mediums. Much like the BC/Destroyer skill changes it's clearly beneficial to train this up prior to the changes should you anticipate ever using these types of drones. What I don't see is how the 2 skills intersect. I apologize if I missed a later clarification, but I don't see how CDO became less valuable in itself or how SDO in any way provides the same benefit after the changes as CDO does now. If you can break it down I'd appreciate it.
Fozzie clarified that you will be getting the two new skills at the level of whichever is higher out of SDO or CDO, since SDO currently unlocks the T1 and T2 light/medium drones, and therefore a situation could have occurred where someone was able to use T2 (or even T1) drones BEFORE the patch, but not after, since the requirement was being moved to an unrelated skill.
Hence, if you have CDO to, say, III, and SDO to V, then you don't need to train CDO any more in order to get both new skills at V.
I'm not sure what is happening to Drone Link Augmentors, which are currently unlocked by CDO, my guess would be they're getting moved to Drone Avionics.
I should also point out there most certainly IS a functionality change with Drone Avionics because SDO unlocks drones and Drone Avionics will not, the original blog post is really, really bad in some ways. |
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:48:00 -
[701] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Is it 2011 or something? Using a MJD dominix for hisec level 4's is not the only situation in which one would use sentries for pve.
I never claimed it is, im just trying to find out when the proper situation arises that an extra ~50dps over navy ones for killing frigates you can alpha anyway is more important than extra ~200dps.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1065
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:53:00 -
[702] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, perhaps in a later post by a dev, but I'm not seeing how the changes cause Scout Drone Op to obsolete Combat Drone Op. Rereading now. It's not being obsoleted, as such. It's being flat out removed, and the replacement process is such that you get the same replacement skills if you have SDO V as if you had CDO V. The highest of the two skills determines what level your newfangled Light Drone and Medium Drone skills will be at. And now I'm even more lost. From what I understood SDO is being renamed to Drone Avionics with no functionality change CDO is being split into 2 skills, 1 for lights, 1 for mediums. Much like the BC/Destroyer skill changes it's clearly beneficial to train this up prior to the changes should you anticipate ever using these types of drones. What I don't see is how the 2 skills intersect. I apologize if I missed a later clarification, but I don't see how CDO became less valuable in itself or how SDO in any way provides the same benefit after the changes as CDO does now. If you can break it down I'd appreciate it. Fozzie clarified that you will be getting the two new skills at the level of whichever is higher out of SDO or CDO, since SDO currently unlocks the T1 and T2 light/medium drones, and therefore a situation could have occurred where someone was able to use T2 (or even T1) drones BEFORE the patch, but not after, since the requirement was being moved to an unrelated skill. Hence, if you have CDO to, say, III, and SDO to V, then you don't need to train CDO any more in order to get both new skills at V. I'm not sure what is happening to Drone Link Augmentors, which are currently unlocked by CDO, my guess would be they're getting moved to Drone Avionics. I should also point out there most certainly IS a functionality change with Drone Avionics because SDO unlocks drones and Drone Avionics will not, the original blog post is really, really bad in some ways. Ah I see it now, it was a post i missed, though that said, if you had SDO V you had access to the T2 drones, CDO wasn't needed, so I'm not sure why replicating SDO to CDO is necessary unless the CDO derivatives are being included in T2 progression, which I'm guessing is another change not stated in the blog itself.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1065
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 19:54:00 -
[703] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Batelle wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Is it 2011 or something? Using a MJD dominix for hisec level 4's is not the only situation in which one would use sentries for pve. I never claimed it is, im just trying to find out when the proper situation arises that an extra ~50dps over navy ones for killing frigates you can alpha anyway is more important than extra ~200dps. When that extra 200DPS isn't applying well because you either failed to alpha them in time or they spawned on top of you.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20447
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:03:00 -
[704] - Quote
Icylce wrote:Yes I got exactly what I trained for, but GǪbut nothing. You lost no time. If others gained more than you, you did not lose anything. If I slot in +5s and you only use +3s, you are not losing any time. You are getting exactly what you chose; what you chose is still with you; nothing is lost.
Tyberius Franklin wrote:And now I'm even more lost.
From what I understood
SDO is being renamed to Drone Avionics with no functionality change CDO is being split into 2 skills, 1 for lights, 1 for mediums. Much like the BC/Destroyer skill changes it's clearly beneficial to train this up prior to the changes should you anticipate ever using these types of drones.
What I don't see is how the 2 skills intersect. I apologize if I missed a later clarification, but I don't see how CDO became less valuable in itself or how SDO in any way provides the same benefit after the changes as CDO does now. If you can break it down I'd appreciate it. They intersect in terms of what bonuses they provide and what they actually unlock. The drone skills are pretty inconsistent in this regard compared to other skills.
CDO gives bonuses to light and medium drones, but don't unlock them. SDO doesn't give any bonuses that are specific to light and medium drones, but it does unlock them. This set-up is as if training Small Hybrids didn't give you the ability to use small hybrids GÇö you'd only get more damage from them and would have to train sharpshooting to be able to fit the actual guns.
What this change does is bring everything back where it should be. Bonusing skills are also unlocking skills. CDO gives bonuses, so it should also unlockGǪ except that it is being split into two different skills (again, just like how small and medium hybrids are different skills). Conversely, the range-giving skill will unlock the range-giving modules, rather than have the damage bonus skills unlock the range modules (because wtf?!).
The problem is that in the transition, people with SDO trained might lose their drone abilities if it was just transformed into Done Avionics since that skill is what currently unlocks the more advance drone types. So people who have trained SDO get to keep their abilities GÇö iow, they get the comparable levels of Light and Medium Drones. At the same time, people who have trained CDO get to keep their light/medium drone damage bonuses GÇö iow, they too get comparable levels of LIght and Medium Drones. If you have one of these two skills (CDO or SDO) trained higher than the other, you still get to keep your bonuses or abilities: the highest one determines which level you get Light and Medium Drones at. This might mean you end up with more ability or higher bonuses than you had previously.
So the steps are essentially: GÇó SDO and CDO get their unlocking abilities switched around (SDO unlocks range mods, CDO unlocks drones). GÇó CDO is split into LDO and MDO, and (for the moment) retains the level trained. GÇó If your (momentary) LDO and MDO levels are lower than what you have in SDO GÇö which might mean you can no longer use T2 drones GÇö the LDO/MDO levels are increased to your current SDO level to ensure you don't lose your current ability. GÇó SDO is then renamed as Drone Avionics and retains the level trained (since it's the same skill).
GǪand order is restored instated in the drone realm. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:05:00 -
[705] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Batelle wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Is it 2011 or something? Using a MJD dominix for hisec level 4's is not the only situation in which one would use sentries for pve. I never claimed it is, im just trying to find out when the proper situation arises that an extra ~50dps over navy ones for killing frigates you can alpha anyway is more important than extra ~200dps. When that extra 200DPS isn't applying well because you either failed to alpha them in time or they spawned on top of you.
Are we talking now some form of pve i have not experienced yet where just frigates spawn everywhere, with no larger ships?
Because in the end what you are suggesting is exchanging one extra volley per frigate for ~50% slower killing overall.
Its should have a strong reason. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
89
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:06:00 -
[706] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, perhaps in a later post by a dev, but I'm not seeing how the changes cause Scout Drone Op to obsolete Combat Drone Op. Rereading now. It's not being obsoleted, as such. It's being flat out removed, and the replacement process is such that you get the same replacement skills if you have SDO V as if you had CDO V. The highest of the two skills determines what level your newfangled Light Drone and Medium Drone skills will be at. And now I'm even more lost. From what I understood SDO is being renamed to Drone Avionics with no functionality change CDO is being split into 2 skills, 1 for lights, 1 for mediums. Much like the BC/Destroyer skill changes it's clearly beneficial to train this up prior to the changes should you anticipate ever using these types of drones. What I don't see is how the 2 skills intersect. I apologize if I missed a later clarification, but I don't see how CDO became less valuable in itself or how SDO in any way provides the same benefit after the changes as CDO does now. If you can break it down I'd appreciate it. Fozzie clarified that you will be getting the two new skills at the level of whichever is higher out of SDO or CDO, since SDO currently unlocks the T1 and T2 light/medium drones, and therefore a situation could have occurred where someone was able to use T2 (or even T1) drones BEFORE the patch, but not after, since the requirement was being moved to an unrelated skill. Hence, if you have CDO to, say, III, and SDO to V, then you don't need to train CDO any more in order to get both new skills at V. I'm not sure what is happening to Drone Link Augmentors, which are currently unlocked by CDO, my guess would be they're getting moved to Drone Avionics. I should also point out there most certainly IS a functionality change with Drone Avionics because SDO unlocks drones and Drone Avionics will not, the original blog post is really, really bad in some ways. Ah I see it now, it was a post i missed, though that said, if you had SDO V you had access to the T2 drones, CDO wasn't needed, so I'm not sure why replicating SDO to CDO is necessary unless the CDO derivatives are being included in T2 progression, which I'm guessing is another change not stated in the blog itself.
The blog does actually say that the LDO/MDO skills will unlock light and medium drones.
On the other hand, it makes no mention of moving drone link augmentors, we're just sort of assuming that's going to be done sensibly. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1065
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:09:00 -
[707] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Icylce wrote:Yes I got exactly what I trained for, but GǪbut nothing. You lost no time. If others gained more than you, you did not lose anything. If I slot in +5s and you only use +3s, you are not losing any time. You are getting exactly what you chose; what you chose is still with you; nothing is lost. Tyberius Franklin wrote:And now I'm even more lost.
From what I understood
SDO is being renamed to Drone Avionics with no functionality change CDO is being split into 2 skills, 1 for lights, 1 for mediums. Much like the BC/Destroyer skill changes it's clearly beneficial to train this up prior to the changes should you anticipate ever using these types of drones.
What I don't see is how the 2 skills intersect. I apologize if I missed a later clarification, but I don't see how CDO became less valuable in itself or how SDO in any way provides the same benefit after the changes as CDO does now. If you can break it down I'd appreciate it. They intersect in terms of what bonuses they provide and what they actually unlock. The drone skills are pretty inconsistent in this regard compared to other skills. CDO gives bonuses to light and medium drones, but don't unlock them. SDO doesn't give any bonuses that are specific to light and medium drones, but it does unlock them. This set-up is as if training Small Hybrids didn't give you the ability to use small hybrids GÇö you'd only get more damage from them and would have to train sharpshooting to be able to fit the actual guns. What this change does is bring everything back where it should be. Bonusing skills are also unlocking skills. CDO gives bonuses, so it should also unlockGǪ except that it is being split into two different skills (again, just like how small and medium hybrids are different skills). Conversely, the range-giving skill will unlock the range-giving modules, rather than have the damage bonus skills unlock the range modules (because wtf?!). The problem is that in the transition, people with SDO trained might lose their drone abilities if it was just transformed into Done Avionics since that skill is what currently unlocks the more advance drone types. So people who have trained SDO get to keep their abilities GÇö iow, they get the comparable levels of Light and Medium Drones. At the same time, people who have trained CDO get to keep their light/medium drone damage bonuses GÇö iow, they too get comparable levels of LIght and Medium Drones. If you have one of these two skills (CDO or SDO) trained higher than the other, you still get to keep your bonuses or abilities: the highest one determines which level you get Light and Medium Drones at. This might mean you end up with more ability or higher bonuses than you had previously. So the steps are essentially: GÇó SDO and CDO get their unlocking abilities switched around (SDO unlocks range mods, CDO unlocks drones). GÇó CDO is split into LDO and MDO, and (for the moment) retains the level trained. GÇó If your (momentary) LDO and MDO levels are lower than what you have in SDO GÇö which might mean you can no longer use T2 drones GÇö the LDO/MDO levels are increased to your current SDO level to ensure you don't lose your current ability. GÇó SDO is then renamed as Drone Avionics and retains the level trained (since it's the same skill). GǪand order is restored instated in the drone realm. After a re-reread I'm seeing that statement being alluded to. I can't sat it comes across clearly, though that may just be me. I guess the key part I was missing was the statement that: "This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill." but that contradicts the statement that SDO would be retaining all it's functions. Maybe that is where i got confused. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
89
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:12:00 -
[708] - Quote
Yeah, I've pointed that out earlier in the thread. There is directly contradictory language in the original post, and it still doesn't address several things, like drone link augmentors, the weird lack of connection between Drone Avionics and Advanced Drone Avionics going against every other Advanced skill in the game, and why Advanced Drone Avionics should be related to ewar drones. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1065
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:15:00 -
[709] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Batelle wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Is it 2011 or something? Using a MJD dominix for hisec level 4's is not the only situation in which one would use sentries for pve. I never claimed it is, im just trying to find out when the proper situation arises that an extra ~50dps over navy ones for killing frigates you can alpha anyway is more important than extra ~200dps. When that extra 200DPS isn't applying well because you either failed to alpha them in time or they spawned on top of you. Are we talking now some form of pve i have not experienced yet where just frigates spawn everywhere, with no larger ships? Because in the end what you are suggesting is exchanging one extra volley per frigate for ~50% slower killing overall. Its should have a strong reason. So wait, your contention now is that for some reason if you use lights on small close orbiters you can't use sentries on bigger and/or farther targets? If a group spawns near you it will likely consist of different types but I'm probably not going to MJD away just because 2 of them are frigs, nor am I only going to use lights when 2 are BS's.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20447
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:15:00 -
[710] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:After a re-reread I'm seeing that statement being alluded to. I can't sat it comes across clearly, though that may just be me. I guess the key part I was missing was the statement that: "This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill." but that contradicts the statement that SDO would be retaining all it's functions. Maybe that is where i got confused. No, it's certainly not entirely clear unless you parse it and reparse it a couple of times, then read the explanations, double-check the skills, and apply some implied logic.
As Erasmus Phoenix points out, it hasn't actually been said that Drone Avionics will unlock drone link augs GÇö it's just an assumption based on how all the bonuses and abilities are being put in order. Even if Fozzie forgot about that poor old module, I'm sure it's being quietly snuck into the change doc as we speakGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
521
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:19:00 -
[711] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Check out some ground breaking changes to everyone's favorite little helpers, drones. You can find the dev blog with all it's graph and spreadsheety goodness here.
Good job on rebalancing Drone Interfacing. It was quite overpowered at +20%/lvl, and for that reason my standard advice to noobs has been to trai it to 4 pretty damn soon, except if Gallantean then they should instead train it to 5 even sooner. Now at +10/lvl it's just one more skill among others, quite useful to have, but not a must-have, nothing that stands our in blinking neon green italics, certainly not for noobs. And I'm still happy to have trained it to 5 years ago.
Also good that you're taking a look at drones, but I hope this stat balance is just the first step towards a larger project that will also look at drone behaviour, drone AI and so forth. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:20:00 -
[712] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Barton Breau wrote: I never claimed it is, im just trying to find out when the proper situation arises that an extra ~50dps over navy ones for killing frigates you can alpha anyway is more important than extra ~200dps.
When that extra 200DPS isn't applying well because you either failed to alpha them in time or they spawned on top of you. Are we talking now some form of pve i have not experienced yet where just frigates spawn everywhere, with no larger ships? Because in the end what you are suggesting is exchanging one extra volley per frigate for ~50% slower killing overall. Its should have a strong reason. So wait, your contention now is that for some reason if you use lights on small close orbiters you can't use sentries on bigger and/or farther targets? If a group spawns near you it will likely consist of different types but I'm probably not going to MJD away just because 2 of them are frigs, nor am I only going to use lights when 2 are BS's.
The original thought was that OBVIOUSLY everyone using sentries already has t2 smalls, which i found (maybe naively) silly, since even for the purpose you mention you are much better off using navy ones to deal with frigates and t2 sentries to mop up the rest. |
Icylce
The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS.
33
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:21:00 -
[713] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪbut nothing. You lost no time. If others gained more than you, you did not lose anything. If I slot in +5s and you only use +3s, you are not losing any time. You are getting exactly what you chose; what you chose is still with you; nothing is lost.
It does not mean u dont loose time if u choose to do so. One does not rule out the other. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
89
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:23:00 -
[714] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
As Erasmus Phoenix points out, it hasn't actually been said that Drone Avionics will unlock drone link augs GÇö it's just an assumption based on how all the bonuses and abilities are being put in order. Even if Fozzie forgot about that poor old module, I'm sure it's being quietly snuck into the change doc as we speakGǪ
It's weird, because the storyline Drone Link Augmenter is currently unlocked by Scout Drone Interfacing, while the T1, T2 and Officer ones are unlocked by Combat Drone Interfacing. I'm guessing whoever added that module just put it where they assumed it would logically go, not where the other modules of its type are. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20447
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:24:00 -
[715] - Quote
Icylce wrote:It does not mean u dont loose time if u choose to do so. One does not rule out the other. What rules out the loss of time is the very simple fact that you didn't lose anything in the process. Again: someone else's gain is not your loss. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1066
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:31:00 -
[716] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:The original thought was that OBVIOUSLY everyone using sentries already has t2 smalls, which i found (maybe naively) silly, since even for the purpose you mention you are much better off using navy ones to deal with frigates and t2 sentries to mop up the rest. Why use navy drones? T2 lights currently track more than well enough, MJD faster (though that shouldn't matter much for close orbiters) and hit harder.
|
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:32:00 -
[717] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Barton Breau wrote:The original thought was that OBVIOUSLY everyone using sentries already has t2 smalls, which i found (maybe naively) silly, since even for the purpose you mention you are much better off using navy ones to deal with frigates and t2 sentries to mop up the rest. Why use navy drones? T2 lights currently track more than well enough, MJD faster (though that shouldn't matter much for close orbiters) and hit harder.
Because you have not trained them yet? |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
90
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:39:00 -
[718] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Barton Breau wrote:The original thought was that OBVIOUSLY everyone using sentries already has t2 smalls, which i found (maybe naively) silly, since even for the purpose you mention you are much better off using navy ones to deal with frigates and t2 sentries to mop up the rest. Why use navy drones? T2 lights currently track more than well enough, MJD faster (though that shouldn't matter much for close orbiters) and hit harder. Because you have not trained them yet?
This is completely circular reasoning. You're saying people don't use T2 because they use navy because they can't use T2... |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1066
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:43:00 -
[719] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Barton Breau wrote:The original thought was that OBVIOUSLY everyone using sentries already has t2 smalls, which i found (maybe naively) silly, since even for the purpose you mention you are much better off using navy ones to deal with frigates and t2 sentries to mop up the rest. Why use navy drones? T2 lights currently track more than well enough, MJD faster (though that shouldn't matter much for close orbiters) and hit harder. Because you have not trained them yet? So then they aren't "better off" as you claimed, but rather don't have the choice. That's fair, but that said, any T2 sentry user who didn't train the prerequisites for T2 lights save racial drone op 1 doesn't have much native engagement range to pop high angular velocity ships very well anyways unless loaded up on DLA's, MJD's making that even worse.
How many sentry users do you without SDO V?
|
Druadan
Divitarum Carta Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 20:45:00 -
[720] - Quote
I can't say I disagree with these changes, but I think Caldari and Amarr are the wrong way round on the new combat drones scale of Damage-Speed. |
|
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
18
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:40:00 -
[721] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills?
I don't have every t2 racial drone skill injected/trained yet. Never really saw the need to, as I PVE with hob2's and PVP with warrior2's.
Sue me! |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1068
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:43:00 -
[722] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Is there a single player who actively uses T2 sentries and doesn't have the racial drone skills? I don't have every t2 racial drone skill injected/trained yet. Never really saw the need to, as I PVE with hob2's and PVP with warrior2's. Sue me! Same here, but getting those last 2, or 3 in my case, shouldn't be that onerous.
Edit: *Bows head in shame for allowing that oversight to remain on my skill sheet this long. |
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
18
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 21:47:00 -
[723] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: Same here, but getting those last 2, or 3 in my case, shouldn't be that onerous.
Edit: *Bows head in shame for allowing that oversight to remain on my skill sheet this long.
No, Sir! Own those "mistakes" and wear your lack-of-injected/trained-skills as a badge of honor! >:O |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
324
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 22:15:00 -
[724] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Icylce wrote:It does not mean u dont loose time if u choose to do so. One does not rule out the other. What rules out the loss of time is the very simple fact that you didn't lose anything in the process. Again: someone else's gain is not your loss. it is in a zero-sum game.
eve is a zero-sum game. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
531
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:05:00 -
[725] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Icylce wrote:It does not mean u dont loose time if u choose to do so. One does not rule out the other. What rules out the loss of time is the very simple fact that you didn't lose anything in the process. Again: someone else's gain is not your loss.
Personally I think the "my SP beats your SP" minigame is a bit silly and who cares if you have redundant training with both scout and combat to V.
However I must agree with the original comments here.
If you trained in real life every week night for a year to qualify for a payrise and then the boss a few weeks after you get your payrise decides to give it to everyone regardless of training you will be dissed. Rightly so because you did lose something, all your evenings for a year.
|
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor
40
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 23:21:00 -
[726] - Quote
My Two cents on the Drone Spectrum (regarding light, med and heavy drones)
Tippia has it on the nose. If I want speed, I'll (still) go Minmatar drone, if I want DPS, I'll (still) go Gallente. Caldari and Amarr don't offer anything for me.
I think the change should be to have each drone operate the same way the faction doctrine operates:
Minmatar = Either great tracking/great falloff and great speed OR Good Range and Massive Alpha
Gallente = High DPS, moderate speed and great tracking at short range
Caldari = Long range, Decent Tank and Moderate Damage OR almost-high DPS, moderates speed and OK-ish Tracking at short range
Amarr = Long Range, Decent Tank and High Damage at a wide variety of ranges.
In the case of drones, make selection based on what you need the drone to do and how you can leverage the drone strengths vs. your intended targets' weaknesses.
As an example, make Caldari Drones "keep at range" and shoot from a greater distance. This would make them much more smart bomb proof, but at the same time if the target ship stops, so do the Drones.
Perhaps a similar mechanic with Minmatar drones, except they would orbit at a much greater range and every 8-10 seconds your target gets a huge Alpha shot.
Instead of putting all of the drones on a single spectrum, make a bunch of spectrums and spread the drones over all of them.
Make me WANT to choose an Amarr Drone over a Minmatar drone because of what the Amarr drone brings to the fight that the Minmatar can't!
Ced Cedric
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20450
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 00:36:00 -
[727] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:If you trained in real life every week night for a year to qualify for a payrise and then the boss a few weeks after you get your payrise decides to give it to everyone regardless of training you will be dissed. Rightly so because you did lose something, all your evenings for a year. GǪand for that entire year, you got paid for those evenings.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
531
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 00:41:00 -
[728] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:If you trained in real life every week night for a year to qualify for a payrise and then the boss a few weeks after you get your payrise decides to give it to everyone regardless of training you will be dissed. Rightly so because you did lose something, all your evenings for a year. GǪand for that entire year, you got paid for those evenings.
Still they could have used that drone training for something else .... but meh who cares. In reality their has been plenty of notice of this so its not as if people will train combat drones V and the next day find it unnecessary.
ON A DIFFERENT NOTE:
Please fix the SDA rig .... its way pointless at the moment |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
20450
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 00:48:00 -
[729] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Still they could have used that drone training for something else GǪand had awful drone stats as a result. After all, there's a reason whey did spend that time training the skill.
The time was only wasted if they didn't want that skill. And if they didn't want it, why on earth did they train it? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
256
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 00:50:00 -
[730] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
So people who trained Combat Drone Operation will be getting unallocated skill points as a reimbursement right? |
|
Boltorano
Devious Chemicals
62
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 01:01:00 -
[731] - Quote
Not sure if this has been asked already, but wouldn't it make sense to call it Drone Astronautics rather than Drone Avionics? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2294
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 01:03:00 -
[732] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Still they could have used that drone training for something else GǪand had awful drone stats as a result. After all, there's a reason whey did spend that time training the skill. The time was only wasted if they didn't want that skill. And if they didn't want it, why on earth did they train it? As someone who has 15million skill points in drones, the skills were worth every SP that was put into them. -á --á |
Lugues Slive
The Kissaki Consortia
20
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 02:04:00 -
[733] - Quote
Since you are now adding a significant drone rebalance in what is looking like an industry expansion, is there any chance that we will see some changes to mining drones? |
RatBoy Deblade
Zervas Aeronautics The Unthinkables
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 03:00:00 -
[734] - Quote
As a 143M SP pilot, i would like to ask that CCP not nerf the NYX to the point that it would have been a waste to get into. People spend a significant amount of time to train and gather the isk to buy a super carrier for a specific reason.. If that reason becomes entirely invalid after a change which looks like will nerf supers and in particular the NYX. Then it becomes difficult to want to continue investing in such ships and perhaps the interest in EVE will also wane slowly.
Please give the NYX some extra advantage to compensate for the lack of HP it will have without the mods and soften the Nerf Bat a bit.
Thanks,
R.B |
Isky von Purps
Caldari Solutions
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 04:31:00 -
[735] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Then the Dev Blog says:
"We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation....During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to.
...
Finally, we are renaming two drone skills to clarify their roles. The Scout Drone Operation skill is being renamed GÇ£Drone AvionicsGÇ¥ ... to better represent their roles...."
Question: If before DT I have Scout Drone Operation V and Drone Operation IV do I get
Light Drone Operation IV Medium Drone Operation IV Drone Avionics V
(As per the Dev Blog)
or
Light Drone Operation V Medium Drone Operation V Drone Avionics V
As per the Fozzie post? Speaking as a Toon, the difference will radically affect 8 days of my life.
ie if it is the latter then it is absolutely worthless training CDO now because you can get Drone Avionics + Light + Medium Drone Operation V just by training Scout Drone Operation V. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2128
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 04:44:00 -
[736] - Quote
So how are the new hornets different from the old hornets? Less damage, more speed - just like they are now. ??
|
Bawb Zennshinagas
Zennshinagas LLC.
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 05:35:00 -
[737] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
So do we get reimbursed for the skill that isn't being used, and removed?
Or does your wording mean scout->light and combat->Medium ?
Getting free V for both based off of Scout is nice, but having just wasted a week training CDO, would really **** me off. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
934
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 06:10:00 -
[738] - Quote
I have Scout Drone Operation V and Combat Drone Operation IV. Do I need to train CDO to V before the summer? Dev blog says yes, comments say no. Which is it? Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1905
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 11:01:00 -
[739] - Quote
the changes look solid, although i did not check the numbers (cause i'm lazy).
one thing i do not approve of though are the low slot drone tracking enhancers. it's bad enough that omnidirectional tracking links are basically the same module as tracking computers. we do not need to make drones even more similar to turrets (sentries <=> artillery in particular). i get that shield tanked drone boats are in an awkward place with tracking mods sharing their tank slots. in practice though, you have at least one good option to fit any of them in almost all circumstances. keeping drone tracking enhancers out of the game would be keeping one tiny vial of flavor in a giant boring sea of homogenization.
P.S.: back in the day, i was very vocal against the introduction of low slot missile explosion enhancers for the same reason.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Cultural Enrichment
Jenkem Puffing Association
22
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 11:23:00 -
[740] - Quote
So, if I have Scout drone Operation at 5 and combat drone operation at 3, I should NOT train combat drone operation as it will be removed and replaced by the new skills at 5? |
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stoicfaux
4397
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 12:25:00 -
[741] - Quote
Fozzie's post trumps the dev blog because otherwise people would suddenly lose their ability to fly T2 light and medium drones in the expansion.
Currently: SDO V is required for T2 light/med drones. Summer: T2 light/medium drones will require LDO or MDO respectively.
If LDO/MDO were to be split from CDO, and your CDO was only at IV, you would no longer be able to fly T2 light/med drones in the summer expansion. Hence, why CCP Fozzie's comment trumps the dev blog.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
738
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:09:00 -
[742] - Quote
Will fighters and fighter bombers be affected by the race specialization skills? Not today spaghetti. |
Abigail Sagan
Skeleton Liberation Front
50
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:11:00 -
[743] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Fozzie's post trumps the dev blog because otherwise people would suddenly lose their ability to fly T2 light and medium drones in the expansion.
Currently: SDO V is required for T2 light/med drones. Summer: T2 light/medium drones will require LDO or MDO respectively.
If LDO/MDO were to be split from CDO, and your CDO was only at IV, you would no longer be able to fly T2 light/med drones in the summer expansion. Hence, why CCP Fozzie's comment trumps the dev blog.
I most graciously disagree. Even though your deduction is most likely correct, DevBlog has more authority than a single developer writing something on forums. CCP cannot expect everyone to read the forums to find the Right and Correct Interpretation of the DevBlog. Therefore if DevBlog is wrong, CCP better fix it. To do otherwise would be a new public relation fiasco (maybe not a major one, but fiasco none the less) |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Gank for Profit
80
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:24:00 -
[744] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Will fighters and fighter bombers be affected by the race specialization skills?
no they are not tech 2 drones bonuses affecting new fibos damage are drone interfacing 10%/lvl fibo skill 20%lvl and the new SC bonus 100%
Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
|
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
24
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 13:46:00 -
[745] - Quote
Fozzie,
have you considered not decreasing the fighter base damage? I first thought these changes would buff them enough to make then usable, but if you are going to need to use two low slots just to make them as sucky as before, this is actually a nerf.
|
marVLs
576
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 15:47:00 -
[746] - Quote
Still no use for Cal and Am drones, but they're some great ideas in this thread.
Still won't use Heavys over Sentrys.
Still drone UI and laaaag interaction is the biggest problem.
Drones need implants and more/better rigs (make drone damage rig instead of sentry only).
Drone control range should be buffed, same goes for damage of Heavy drones instead of nerfing Sentrys...
Overall changes are just "meeeh", they just touch a little drone problems without solving them. As i can see long way for them to being fixed :/ |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
93
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 15:56:00 -
[747] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Fozzie,
have you considered not decreasing the fighter base damage? I first thought these changes would buff them enough to make then usable, but if you are going to need to use two low slots just to make them as sucky as before, this is actually a nerf.
Fighters won't require low slots to make them do as much damage as they used to, Fighter Bombers will. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
25
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:23:00 -
[748] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Fozzie,
have you considered not decreasing the fighter base damage? I first thought these changes would buff them enough to make then usable, but if you are going to need to use two low slots just to make them as sucky as before, this is actually a nerf.
Fighters won't require low slots to make them do as much damage as they used to, Fighter Bombers will.
Hmm?
Fozzie the Dev wrote:To compensate for these changes, the base damage of Fighters and Fighter Bombers is being reduced.
|
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
93
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:41:00 -
[749] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Fozzie,
have you considered not decreasing the fighter base damage? I first thought these changes would buff them enough to make then usable, but if you are going to need to use two low slots just to make them as sucky as before, this is actually a nerf.
Fighters won't require low slots to make them do as much damage as they used to, Fighter Bombers will. Hmm? Fozzie the Dev wrote:To compensate for these changes, the base damage of Fighters and Fighter Bombers is being reduced.
Please, read the sentence right after the one you quoted to me.
"Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions. Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates" |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
708
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:49:00 -
[750] - Quote
it seems odd there aren't any T2/navy fighters/bombers Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
|
Methonash Qorranto
Caduceus Council Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
20
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:50:00 -
[751] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote: Please, read the sentence right after the one you quoted to me.
"Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions.
Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"
Erasmus Phoenix is correct.
Harvey James wrote: it seems odd there aren't any T2/navy fighters/bombers
This is not odd because, in parallel, there are no navy/faction/tech2 ammunition types for capital weapon systems (e.g. dreadnoughts, titan guns or missile launchers). |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
93
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 16:54:00 -
[752] - Quote
There actually is faction ammo for capital weapons. Just not T2 ammo/guns, or faction guns (lol) |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
708
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 17:03:00 -
[753] - Quote
Methonash Qorranto wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote: Please, read the sentence right after the one you quoted to me.
"Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions.
Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"
Erasmus Phoenix is correct. Harvey James wrote: it seems odd there aren't any T2/navy fighters/bombers
This is not odd because, in parallel, there are no navy/faction/tech2 ammunition types for capital weapon systems (e.g. dreadnoughts, titan guns or missile launchers).
a further oversight on CCP's part then not too have T2 guns/missiles .. more for cap pilots too train :) Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Inspiration
132
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 19:39:00 -
[754] - Quote
I LOVE IT! I hate arguing with static minds that relate everything relative to the status-quo. By definition these minds oppose logic, reason, posses a narrow view and object against solutions for issues that have half an existing workaround. Left up to them, nothing would ever progress!
|
Draconus Lofwyr
UK Corp RAZOR Alliance
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 19:42:00 -
[755] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Methonash Qorranto wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote: Please, read the sentence right after the one you quoted to me.
"Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions.
Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"
Erasmus Phoenix is correct. Harvey James wrote: it seems odd there aren't any T2/navy fighters/bombers
This is not odd because, in parallel, there are no navy/faction/tech2 ammunition types for capital weapon systems (e.g. dreadnoughts, titan guns or missile launchers). a further oversight on CCP's part then not too have T2 guns/missiles .. more for cap pilots too train :)
dreads and titans do have the option of faction ammo/crystals for the capital guns. there are also meta 1 guns to choose from.
but as far as supercarrier changes, after the proposed changes if i don't change anything, the dps on nyx will drop....that is a nerf. if you want to release faction modules, that's fine, but modules are not a buff, they are a new OPTION for fitting, which means more money to spend and more modules to carry in the already tight cargo holds. if you can't figure out the math for the new modules without nerfing the supercarriers, GO BACK TO SCHOOL and don't release the changes. This is not a change for the better, its a change for changes sake. so many problems could have been fixed, so many balances could have been done, but instead, you choose to further marginalize an already specialized ships. every time a new change is mentioned, I cringe and wonder how much worse can they be. They have lost any real self defense, e-war invulnerability is so limited anymore, its like cellular carriers calling it unlimited bandwidth (until you hit a limit) remote ECM burst is nothing but an annoyance since TiDi. We will all now have to figure out the logistics of removing half our FB's and then try and sell them on a newly glutted market. At least we don't have to worry about e-warp bumping anymore, but meh, should never have been an issue in the first place. no more 15 min timers, of safety if tackled on a disconnect, they have until downtime to kill you if they want. considering the supercarrier model is smaller than some dreads or freighters, why cant it dock? no logic there. honestly, don't touch fighters or fighter bombers till the full capital re balance takes place. |
King Rothgar
Aegis Interplanetary .Inc Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum
395
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 20:04:00 -
[756] - Quote
Overall the changes seem reasonable in theory. There is one thing I take issue with however, and that's the faction drones. Faction drones should be outright superior to t2. It shouldn't be a trade off between certain things or simply requiring lower skills. Such weak advantages don't reflect the enormous cost increase over t2. This is especially true of drones which are, for all intents and purposes, basically just ammo.
I suggest that even the crappiest faction drones (those integrated ones I think) should do more raw damage than their t2 counterparts (with lvl5 racial spec skill) or equal damage with a significant speed, range, tracking and/or HP advantage. This idea should also be applied to faction turrets, plates and all other faction modules that are clearly inferior to their t2 counterparts. Since drones are being updated here, it's a good time to solve the drone side of it. The other types of broken faction items can be dealt with later. Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
344
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 20:21:00 -
[757] - Quote
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:honestly, don't touch fighters or fighter bombers till the full capital re balance takes place. you do know that ccp is allowed to make incremental improvements on things without fixing every real or imaginary concern tangentially related to the thing they're working on right |
Rhingda BatFone
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 22:17:00 -
[758] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Fozzie's post trumps the dev blog because otherwise people would suddenly lose their ability to fly T2 light and medium drones in the expansion.
Currently: SDO V is required for T2 light/med drones. Summer: T2 light/medium drones will require LDO or MDO respectively.
If LDO/MDO were to be split from CDO, and your CDO was only at IV, you would no longer be able to fly T2 light/med drones in the summer expansion. Hence, why CCP Fozzie's comment trumps the dev blog.
Yes. That makes sense. Now is CCP making sense? Assuming they are could be dangerous. |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
173
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 22:26:00 -
[759] - Quote
What about changes to the underlying mechanics, which have been creaking for the past 10 years?
The stupid 'always try to orbit' function need to go, at the very least the following should be added to drone 'orders':
*Halt* - drones cut all propulsion but continue to fire *Approach* - drones head straight at the target using MWD *Keep at range* - 500m, 1000m, 2000m, 5000m options. Crucially, drones using this would not try to orbit *Orbit at* - 500m, 1000m, 2000m, 5000 options. Lets you decide if you open up range to try and avoid misses due to tracking.
Beyond these simple commands you could start to get funky; adding drone formations, preset manoeuvres ('strafe', 'bracket left/right', 'thrusters only') e.t.c, but at the very least add some basic functionality - drones missing a target because they are orbiting like retards, with no means of stopping them as the pilot, is so 2004....
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
122
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 22:52:00 -
[760] - Quote
For everyone who currently has T2 sentries, whining about having to train racial drone spec to 1 to keep them:
H T F U |
|
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
708
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 23:00:00 -
[761] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:For everyone who currently has T2 sentries, whining about having to train racial drone spec to 1 to keep them:
H T F U
what does the H stand for? btw Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 23:15:00 -
[762] - Quote
Harden. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
708
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 00:09:00 -
[763] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Harden.
ah ofc how did i not see that .. shakes head.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Draconus Lofwyr
UK Corp RAZOR Alliance
88
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 00:10:00 -
[764] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Draconus Lofwyr wrote:honestly, don't touch fighters or fighter bombers till the full capital re balance takes place. you do know that ccp is allowed to make incremental improvements on things without fixing every real or imaginary concern tangentially related to the thing they're working on right
in this situation, just because they CAN do something, doesn't mean they SHOULD do something. if they cant get it right, leave it alone. |
Rhingda BatFone
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 06:19:00 -
[765] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:For everyone who currently has T2 sentries, whining about having to train racial drone spec to 1 to keep them:
H T F U
And what about those whining because CCP can't give a straight answer on a simple question that has the potential to cost 8 days of unnecessary training? |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 06:23:00 -
[766] - Quote
8 days..
H T F U
That's not even worth noting.
8 Days.. I've spent 8 days training useless skills before while deciding what to focus on next.. |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
176
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 09:29:00 -
[767] - Quote
Re-posting this, because it's unbelievable, that almost 9 years (yes 9 years) and 14 expansions after the last major Drone overhaulGǪ you guys aren't touching the duff mechanics, horrible GUI and general malaise that affects the drone system.
Seriously?
Gabriel Karade wrote:What about changes to the underlying mechanics, which have been creaking for the past 10 years? The stupid 'always try to orbit' function need to go, at the very least the following should be added to drone 'orders': *Halt* - drones cut all propulsion but continue to fire *Approach* - drones head straight at the target using MWD *Keep at range* - 500m, 1000m, 2000m, 5000m options. Crucially, drones using this would not try to orbit *Orbit at* - 500m, 1000m, 2000m, 5000 options. Lets you decide if you open up range to try and avoid misses due to tracking. Beyond these simple commands you could start to get funky; adding drone formations, preset manoeuvres ('strafe', 'bracket left/right', 'thrusters only') e.t.c, but at the very least add some basic functionality - drones missing a target because they are orbiting like retards, with no means of stopping them as the pilot, is so 2004....
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Inspiration
133
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 11:06:00 -
[768] - Quote
Based on an earlier point raised by Tippia about the way the combat drones differ and still make two factions drones the underdog. I see a simple way out of this:
Gallente & Caldari combat drones
Close range focus, equally high damage, equally slow. One more armor, other more shield, damage wise thermal or kinetic.
These close range drone options, target different types of resist profiles, making neither redundant.
Minmatar & Amarr combat drones
Long range focus, equally moderate damage, equally quick. One more shield, other more armor, damage wise explosive or em.
These long range drone options, target different types of resist profiles, making neither redundant. Also each "action coalition" has both short and long range coverage. I hate arguing with static minds that relate everything relative to the status-quo. By definition these minds oppose logic, reason, posses a narrow view and object against solutions for issues that have half an existing workaround. Left up to them, nothing would ever progress!
|
Inspiration
133
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 11:11:00 -
[769] - Quote
Based on an earlier point raised by Tippia about the way the sentry drones differ and still make two factions drones the underdog. I see a simple way out of this:
Gallente & Caldari sentry drones
Close range focus, equally high damage, excellent tracking. One more armor and falloff, other more shield and optimal, damage wise thermal or kinetic.
These could be short to medium range sentry options, target different types of resist profiles, making neither redundant.
Minmatar & Amarr sentry drones
Long range focus, equally moderate damage, moderate tracking. One more shield and falloff, other more armor and optimal, damage wise explosive or em.
These long range drone options, target different types of resist profiles, making neither redundant. Also each "faction coalition" has both short and long range coverage. I hate arguing with static minds that relate everything relative to the status-quo. By definition these minds oppose logic, reason, posses a narrow view and object against solutions for issues that have half an existing workaround. Left up to them, nothing would ever progress!
|
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
345
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 14:45:00 -
[770] - Quote
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Draconus Lofwyr wrote:honestly, don't touch fighters or fighter bombers till the full capital re balance takes place. you do know that ccp is allowed to make incremental improvements on things without fixing every real or imaginary concern tangentially related to the thing they're working on right in this situation, just because they CAN do something, doesn't mean they SHOULD do something. if they cant get it right, leave it alone. forcing a ship class to have to make the same tank vs damage decision that nearly every other ship class has to make is definitely doing it right
honestly, the "please put off a change that I dislike until every single real or imaginary problem surrounding the greater whole of a thing being affected by the change is fixed, which I assume will never happen, thus delaying the change I don't like indefinitely" tactic is starting to wear thin
that's some (INSERT RANCID OFFSITE FORUM NAME) level shit, eveo is unironically better than that garbage echo chamber, please try a little more next time |
|
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 15:40:00 -
[771] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Fozzie,
have you considered not decreasing the fighter base damage? I first thought these changes would buff them enough to make then usable, but if you are going to need to use two low slots just to make them as sucky as before, this is actually a nerf.
Fighters won't require low slots to make them do as much damage as they used to, Fighter Bombers will. Hmm? Fozzie the Dev wrote:To compensate for these changes, the base damage of Fighters and Fighter Bombers is being reduced. Please, read the sentence right after the one you quoted to me. "Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions. Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates"
I stand corrected. It's still an ill-considered and unnecessary pre-nerf for an obsoleted weapon system, that could have been resurrected.
|
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
345
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 15:45:00 -
[772] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:I stand corrected. It's still an ill-considered and unnecessary pre-nerf for an obsoleted weapon system, that could have been resurrected.
not... really?
you need drone interfacing 5 to even inject the fighters book
the net change due to this for fighters wrt damage is exactly bupkis
meanwhile, DDAs, ODTLs, ODTEs, and navcomps can now affect fighters, plus they're getting boosts from skills
this is an unprecedented buff to fighters and should not be considered anything but |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
96
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 16:49:00 -
[773] - Quote
Yeah, it's definitely a buff to fighters. I don't think it goes far enough to fix them, to be honest, but it is an improvement. |
RatBoy Deblade
Zervas Aeronautics The Unthinkables
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 17:05:00 -
[774] - Quote
Still a nerf to all supers especially NYX. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
356
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 17:05:00 -
[775] - Quote
Any thoughts on whether they will make any changes to assigned fighters? It would be nice if assigned fighters were affected by someone's skills. http://eveion.blogspot.com/ |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
96
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 17:25:00 -
[776] - Quote
That is a good point, will it be the carrier pilot's skills or the assigned pilot? I'm guessing the former, if either. But then, would bonuses applied by modules on the carrier itself still work? Or would they have to be on the ship it's being assigned to?
Fozzie, any words? Have you thought about this? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
356
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 17:27:00 -
[777] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:That is a good point, will it be the carrier pilot's skills or the assigned pilot? I'm guessing the former, if either. But then, would bonuses applied by modules on the carrier itself still work? Or would they have to be on the ship it's being assigned to?
Fozzie, any words? Have you thought about this?
Considering that assigned fighters currently do not have anyone's skills applied, I am very pessimistic about this. http://eveion.blogspot.com/ |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
96
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 18:36:00 -
[778] - Quote
I thought they received the bonus from the carrier pilot's fighters skill, but not from the hull if assigned from a nyx/thanny? |
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 18:59:00 -
[779] - Quote
RatBoy Deblade wrote:Still a nerf to all supers especially NYX. Well I think this'll make shield moms and carriers a lot more common now- this helps them a lot, especially now that fighters can get bonuses from omnis, ddas, and the new low slot drone tracking computer. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
96
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 19:12:00 -
[780] - Quote
They were already stronger in many ways, though, just underused because of the prevalence of armor titans and fleets in general. It's one of those things... because everyone has armor caps everyone uses armor caps so nobody will change. |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15003
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 19:24:00 -
[781] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:They were already stronger in many ways, though, just underused because of the prevalence of armor titans and fleets in general. It's one of those things... because everyone has armor caps everyone uses armor caps so nobody will change.
Some groups have already changed
1 Kings 12:11
|
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
96
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 19:32:00 -
[782] - Quote
Some have, though I've mostly seen it from groups that were rebuilding, or building up a capital/supercapital fleet for the first time fairly recently on the relative timescale of supercap doctrines.
I'm not saying nobody uses them, but they already had several advantages and their lack of adoption is mostly a meta-related thing rather than them needing a buff. |
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
8
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 19:38:00 -
[783] - Quote
I just want the Hel to finally be used... it's such a beautiful ship, but nobody flies it :P |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
96
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 19:48:00 -
[784] - Quote
It is a damn good looking roof |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
356
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 20:20:00 -
[785] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:I thought they received the bonus from the carrier pilot's fighters skill, but not from the hull if assigned from a nyx/thanny?
No. Assigned fighters are totally unbonused. http://eveion.blogspot.com/ |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 20:49:00 -
[786] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:I thought they received the bonus from the carrier pilot's fighters skill, but not from the hull if assigned from a nyx/thanny? No. Assigned fighters are totally unbonused.
I've been looking through the forums/google and found more agreeing with me than agreeing with you, though nobody seems quite sure... |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
356
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 22:41:00 -
[787] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:I thought they received the bonus from the carrier pilot's fighters skill, but not from the hull if assigned from a nyx/thanny? No. Assigned fighters are totally unbonused. I've been looking through the forums/google and found more agreeing with me than agreeing with you, though nobody seems quite sure...
I'll be honest, I've never tested it. Maybe a dev could confirm one way or the other? Pretty please? With an exotic dancer on top! http://eveion.blogspot.com/ |
Gauro Charante
Vile Duck Pond
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 00:28:00 -
[788] - Quote
While CCP is doing a drone patch, could they also change 2 drone modules? The ones I'm thinking of are Drone Link in the high slot and Drone Navigation in med slot. The Drone Link at the moment just adds drone control range. Lets add to it drone speed. I think it would logical that if you want to extend the range you'de also want to get your drones there faster (sentrys don't care about that but they work fine as is). The Drone Navigation would be changed to Drone Durability. As the name suggests it would add more hp, maybe smaller sig etc. For example : 5% less sig and resistance to drones. Now you have a choice between Omni for damage application and Durability for tank. Always nice with choices (tou some might disagree). Numbers aside, I don't know how this would fit into Fighters/Bombers but for drones it could be nice.
Yes I know about the HP rig for drones, there is also shield/armor rigs......choices |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 03:15:00 -
[789] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Erasmus Phoenix wrote:I thought they received the bonus from the carrier pilot's fighters skill, but not from the hull if assigned from a nyx/thanny? No. Assigned fighters are totally unbonused. I've been looking through the forums/google and found more agreeing with me than agreeing with you, though nobody seems quite sure... I'll be honest, I've never tested it. Maybe a dev could confirm one way or the other? Pretty please? With an exotic dancer on top!
Tempted to try it myself, now... Shooting the same target with five fighters unassigned and then assigned, seeing how the damage compares. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
121
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 04:07:00 -
[790] - Quote
You opened this blog by stating which drones are used most in PvP and used that as some type of justification for balance or lack there of. In Eve we have no damage meters or anything like that which I think is a good thing. But because of that we players have no way of knowing what drones do what in specific situations so I think most players just look and the easily quantifiable stats like damage and range and equate that to some theoretical dps which is not based in fact.
For example I have noticed that while Gallente drones may do the most damage on paper due to tracking and maybe speed they seem to miss a lot more than other drone types. I strongly suggest that you guys find a way to determine actual landed dps in real game situations and use that as a balancing factor instead of player's perceptions.
After all you guys are the devs you have access to information we players do not and any balancing should be done based on factual information that can be gained from server data logging versus what the largely ignorant player base thinks or feels.
The AI changes you guys made to empire NPCs a while back was a significant nerf to drone dps due to the constant need to continually recall drones. Because of that fact I don't think the MWD changes to large drones will even come close to making them viable versus sentries in most situations. |
|
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 04:10:00 -
[791] - Quote
The slightly random damage is making it fairly difficult to tell, but as far as I can see it's within roughly the same area for assigned and not assigned. Then again, my brand new carrier pilot only has fighters II, so the difference would be 40% at best. I can retest tomorrow with a friend who has fighters V.
EDIT: I am also drunk so there's that. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2296
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 09:45:00 -
[792] - Quote
Quote: GÇ£AugmentedGÇ¥ drones will keep their current significant bonuses to HP, tracking and speed, and will see their damage bonus increased to 32% above Tech One drones, putting their damage on par with a fully skilled Tech Two drone.
Augmented Drones already have the same damage potential as T2 drones due to skill requirements, does this mean they will be equal to a fully skilled t2 drone before including the Racial Drone Specialization skill? Making them =T2 damage +10% -á --á |
Lord Eremet
The Seatbelts
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 09:50:00 -
[793] - Quote
Wut, no FACTION drone damage amplifiers?
I would love to see a gurista/serpentis version of the t2 dda, with less fitting and 1% more damage.
I have yet to see a officer version of them, unfiltered market say they exist in the database but I newer seen one.
But for what we get it's nice changes so far, me like
|
Hexatron Ormand
Aperture Deep Space BORG Alliance
44
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 12:43:00 -
[794] - Quote
So now that drones finally get all the modules that turret users also have (low slot TE, faction variants), what about implants for drone users?
There is not a single implant out there, that helps drone users in any way, while there are implants for every other weapon system. You yourself acknowledged in your dev blog posting, that drones are now a main weapon system.
So i feel, that they, as any other main weapon systems, deserves some love in form of implants as well. |
RatBoy Deblade
Zervas Aeronautics The Unthinkables
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 14:49:00 -
[795] - Quote
CCP needs to increase the damage bonus to NYX in order to keep it viable after the changes. A 10% damage bonus would be fine so that we dont have to use so many mods as the rest of the supers and lose all our tank. |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Gank for Profit
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:17:00 -
[796] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Quote: GÇ£AugmentedGÇ¥ drones will keep their current significant bonuses to HP, tracking and speed, and will see their damage bonus increased to 32% above Tech One drones, putting their damage on par with a fully skilled Tech Two drone.
Augmented Drones already have the same damage potential as T2 drones due to skill requirements, does this mean they will be equal to a fully skilled t2 drone before including the Racial Drone Specialization skill? Making them =T2 damage +10%
the difference in dps is quite large ishtar with 5xOgre IIs 4xDDA II = 845dps with augmented ogre 930dps
although the current price only allows very few people to actually use them 245mil per 5 drones
Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
|
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 16:37:00 -
[797] - Quote
Lord Eremet wrote:Wut, no FACTION drone damage amplifiers?
I would love to see a gurista/serpentis version of the t2 dda, with less fitting and 1% more damage.
I have yet to see a officer version of them, unfiltered market say they exist in the database but I newer seen one.
But for what we get it's nice changes so far, me like
Officer DDA's do exist, but because few people rat drone space they are uncommon. When they do drop, they are sold to specific people long before they make it to the Jita market.
As for the Faction DDA's, there will be Gurista's one, and from the sounds of it a Rogue Drone "faction" one rather than just the officer one.. Unless they are just counting the officer one as a drop.
"The faction modules will be available in Gallente Navy and Amarr Navy variants (available in both normal and FW LP stores) as well as Guristas and Rogue Drone variants available as loot drops."
Also, Highsec carebear (atm) or not.. I agree, the Nyx needs a damage buffer to keep it in line with where it is now in terms of damage potential.
With most Null alliances going all Archon, rather than a mix, you don't want them to go all Aeon too. |
DarthMopp
I.D.I.O.T. Sev3rance
37
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 21:06:00 -
[798] - Quote
Clicked on the blog as it was posted in Alliance Chat, saw that Fozzie made it and was about to close it before reading as usually nothing useful ever comes from that dude.
I decided to read it anyways and i wasn-¦t disappointed. These changes are ****. And thats the most polite way i can find to adress the upcoming changes. As far as i can remember combat drones haven-¦t been broken.
Drone Interface, Drone UI, Utility and Ewar Drones, all of this could have been adressed but no, CCP Fozzie again feels the urge to **** up an actually good working setup. Seriously, what other things in EvE do you and your team of fumblers have to ruin until CCP decides to offer you the opportunity to unfold your creativity elsewhere.
Rubicon my ass..... |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
349
|
Posted - 2014.04.06 21:29:00 -
[799] - Quote
DarthMopp wrote:Clicked on the blog as it was posted in Alliance Chat, saw that Fozzie made it and was about to close it before reading as usually nothing useful ever comes from that dude.
I decided to read it anyways and i wasn-¦t disappointed. These changes are ****. And thats the most polite way i can find to adress the upcoming changes. As far as i can remember combat drones haven-¦t been broken.
Drone Interface, Drone UI, Utility and Ewar Drones, all of this could have been adressed but no, CCP Fozzie again feels the urge to **** up an actually good working setup. Seriously, what other things in EvE do you and your team of fumblers have to ruin until CCP decides to offer you the opportunity to unfold your creativity elsewhere.
Rubicon my ass..... way to describe what you don't like and instead spend 75% of your post denigrating the person who made it instead of the changes
you are truly a treasure to the posting community |
Domania
Rooks Inc.
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 00:40:00 -
[800] - Quote
Hel buff best buff. |
|
STush T
Capital Sin
19
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 02:33:00 -
[801] - Quote
The only way CCP/Fozzie pays attention to anything we say is to have a united front. Otherwise were just noise(ex. threadnoughts that accomplish nothing). Id like to see csm organize the complaints, then bring them to Fozzie and demand attention and accountability. This applies to all "feedback" since most of it is just ignored and we all are just wasting our time.
So with that in mind I wont be wasting my time here voicing my concerns, things like
-Once i had a maxed skilled sentry user, come summer i have to train more just to get back what i had. . . heres an idea for endgame mechanic, offer us a ship that would take 1 year to train into, 13 months later make the skill time 2 years and so on. This way there is always something to be training for. Fun right? And after you get bored of making us retrain, just change the role of the ship. -The dominix (and other ships) were updated, now mods for that ship are changing, shouldnt it be updated again? -know nothing about caps, but sounds like people have good reason to be pissed. -There are more things terrible with drones then there are good, but this is what you choose to work on? Not the god awful ui? -Advice to new players, train towards things that have just been updated, that way they might still be the same thing when you actually train into it.
So things like that arent worth the time to be mentioned.
Drones, pssht, who cares, how about CCP actively work on things to make EVE as a universe better. Dinsdale cloud/nebula, deep space, wormholes that are actually a mystery. Content, i believe its called. Although I feel for the guys stuck in SOV, maybe split CCP down the middle, half to new content, the other to actually make old content its prime.
. . .tangent just a bit. 40+ pages in i think its okay to though. |
Georgiy Giggle
REFORD Division REFORD
118
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 07:21:00 -
[802] - Quote
Finaly, CCP's bringing something good to EVE.
P.S. Ship painting sucks. Awesome idea, awful realisation. Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
885
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 07:23:00 -
[803] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Barton Breau wrote:So what you have talked yourself into: 800 dps (now) - OK 760 dps (after change+-) - OK, we need this because of the dda 930 dps (officer dda now) - OK 800-930 dps (faction dda) - SILLY, NERF Nope. The 800 now is not ok; the 930 with oDDAs now is not ok; the 760 is not what we'll see after the change. What I'm saying is that averages will go up as more effective and yet not hilariously rare DDAs will be available. To keep those averages from rising when what they want is for them to go down, they bring everything down a bit more than might be expected. Quote:You may want to explain where you see silly output In the average 1200+ DPS that those drone boats can deliver.
In all fairness a ~1195 dps dominix needed the following mods to be viable (as in tank the anomaly long enough to not have to warp out), and had no prop mod, and the fitting pattern was not generally applicable to missions, just to ratting and a couple of missions that don't require prop mods.
6x350mm railgun II (navy antimatter - which doesn't actually make sense to use economically when ratting). pith b-type xl-shield booster, pith b-type kinetic hardener, pith b-type thermic hardener, cap recharger II, fed navy Omni 4x dda II, 2x fed navy magstab, 1x coprocessor II
2x large ccc II, 1x large drone control range rig.
gardes, wardens, lights, ecms (hull ~185 jita, fit ~540m jita). I'd presume post patch, that will be an extra 200m for 2 faction DDAs (I probably wouldn't bother with 4).
In any case I don't think it matters as the once this patch hits, I will have to try carriers.
|
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
258
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 12:31:00 -
[804] - Quote
STush T wrote:The only way CCP/Fozzie pays attention to anything we say is to have a united front. Otherwise were just noise(ex. threadnoughts that accomplish nothing). Id like to see csm organize the complaints, then bring them to Fozzie and demand attention and accountability. This applies to all "feedback" since most of it is just ignored and we all are just wasting our time.
So with that in mind I wont be wasting my time here voicing my concerns, things like
-Once i had a maxed skilled sentry user, come summer i have to train more just to get back what i had. . . heres an idea for endgame mechanic, offer us a ship that would take 1 year to train into, 13 months later make the skill time 2 years and so on. This way there is always something to be training for. Fun right? And after you get bored of making us retrain, just change the role of the ship. -The dominix (and other ships) were updated, now mods for that ship are changing, shouldnt it be updated again? -know nothing about caps, but sounds like people have good reason to be pissed. -There are more things terrible with drones then there are good, but this is what you choose to work on? Not the god awful ui? -Advice to new players, train towards things that have just been updated, that way they might still be the same thing when you actually train into it.
So things like that arent worth the time to be mentioned.
Drones, pssht, who cares, how about CCP actively work on things to make EVE as a universe better. Dinsdale cloud/nebula, deep space, wormholes that are actually a mystery. Content, i believe its called. Although I feel for the guys stuck in SOV, maybe split CCP down the middle, half to new content, the other to actually make old content its prime.
. . .tangent just a bit. 40+ pages in i think its okay to though.
Here is the thing, the drone UI is legacy code. When you are dealing with legacy code that you don't understand there are easy changes (database value changes, variable/formula changes) which when accompanied by a long dev blog can look like a lot of work was done, and there are hard changes like learning/understanding the legacy code well enough to rewrite/improve it. Yes it makes no sense to make changes like these and leave the horrible UI/mechanics in place but you are talking about a few hours work vs. a few months work.
There is a reason why the last several expansions have been a lot of database/variable/formula changes and not much in the way of fixes to the core problems of some of the UI/mechanics in eve. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
516
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 13:16:00 -
[805] - Quote
Andrea Keuvo wrote:STush T wrote:The only way CCP/Fozzie pays attention to anything we say is to have a united front. Otherwise were just noise(ex. threadnoughts that accomplish nothing). Id like to see csm organize the complaints, then bring them to Fozzie and demand attention and accountability. This applies to all "feedback" since most of it is just ignored and we all are just wasting our time.
So with that in mind I wont be wasting my time here voicing my concerns, things like
-Once i had a maxed skilled sentry user, come summer i have to train more just to get back what i had. . . heres an idea for endgame mechanic, offer us a ship that would take 1 year to train into, 13 months later make the skill time 2 years and so on. This way there is always something to be training for. Fun right? And after you get bored of making us retrain, just change the role of the ship. -The dominix (and other ships) were updated, now mods for that ship are changing, shouldnt it be updated again? -know nothing about caps, but sounds like people have good reason to be pissed. -There are more things terrible with drones then there are good, but this is what you choose to work on? Not the god awful ui? -Advice to new players, train towards things that have just been updated, that way they might still be the same thing when you actually train into it.
So things like that arent worth the time to be mentioned.
Drones, pssht, who cares, how about CCP actively work on things to make EVE as a universe better. Dinsdale cloud/nebula, deep space, wormholes that are actually a mystery. Content, i believe its called. Although I feel for the guys stuck in SOV, maybe split CCP down the middle, half to new content, the other to actually make old content its prime.
. . .tangent just a bit. 40+ pages in i think its okay to though. Here is the thing, the drone UI is legacy code. When you are dealing with legacy code that you don't understand there are easy changes (database value changes, variable/formula changes) which when accompanied by a long dev blog can look like a lot of work was done, and there are hard changes like learning/understanding the legacy code well enough to rewrite/improve it. Yes it makes no sense to make changes like these and leave the horrible UI/mechanics in place but you are talking about a few hours work vs. a few months work. There is a reason why the last several expansions have been a lot of database/variable/formula changes and not much in the way of fixes to the core problems of some of the UI/mechanics in eve.
exactly, and this is not good at all when a company enters "minimal" mode on a game......
so what's the plan here? **** of as much as the player base as you can, so they leave, and in a year or two make a devblog stating "Sorry, not enought player anymore, we close the servers?"
this is what i'm feeling since +- 1 year judjing by the crap CCP pass to us as "expansions" and the falling number of players..... |
Coyote Laughing
16
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 13:17:00 -
[806] - Quote
[quote=CCP Fozzie]Looking forward to all your feedback. CCP Rise and I have been working hard on these changes and we think they'll be great for the drone ecosystem as a whole.
I've thought about this for a couple of days and a few minor tweaks to range and tracking aren't really going to make me retrain for Amarr and Caldari drones.
Given how easily drones die, I'd give also them an armour and shield buff respectively.
That gives you a choice of fast Minmatar drones, hard hitting Gallente drones, or durable drones (of your respective tanks).
Also, do something about the training for sentry drones - if you got to the effort for training the T1, you might as well train for the T2 and get them all.
A few percentage points from racial drone specialization (if applicable) isn't really going to change my selection, especially for Sentry drones now that bouncers don't have their broken ranges any more.
[Just as a niggling detail - how about adding the racial names to the inbuilt spelling dictionary for the forums, suggesting the correct spellings for common errors.] l8r \o/ |
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 13:44:00 -
[807] - Quote
Suggestion for a more proper balance for racial Drones:
1. Matari Drones - Same as now, fastest, good tracking, for anti-tackle/frigate work. Reduce HP, should be fragile as hell.
2. Amarr Drones - Slightly slower than Matari, slightly less damage, great tracking tho, and vastly more (armor) hp. Durable as hell.
3. Caldari Drones - Much faster than Gallente Drones (close to Amarr), slightly less DPS than Gall, but far more (Shield) hp. Again, durable.
4. Gallente Drones - Same as now, top DPS drones, generally good for any slower-than-frigates ships. But low armor and shield hp, with hull tops (but still fragile).
This would provide a meaningful trade-off.
Amarr may do a little less dps vs. speedy things, but will remain on the field far longer if targeted.
Caldari may do less dps vs. heavier things, but get there far faster (earlier dps application) and stay on the field vs. those heay things far longer if targeted.
Just a thought. |
DarthMopp
I.D.I.O.T. Sev3rance
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 17:57:00 -
[808] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote: way to describe what you don't like and instead spend 75% of your post denigrating the person who made it instead of the changes
you are truly a treasure to the posting community
Hey, stop it, i am married...noones calling me treasure except for my wife, honey.
Of course i am attacking him. He is the one responsible for this pile of crap which he is trying to sell us like the best invention since the self inflating rubber doll. Hes the one in charge, the guy with the hat on, El Cappo Primeiro! How could we forget the awesome changes and additions he gave us, like the nullified interceptor. Wohoo, that was truly a magic moment in the history of EvE. The "run back to gate" option was obviously way to difficult for some pilots so he had the close to brilliant idea to lighten the mechanic up that much my Labrador is able to fly interceptors through every gatecamp now. Know what, nullify everything cause being cought in bubbles may hurt the fragile players psyche and we cannot let this happen, aye?
I could adress the changes themselves, cause i bet the guy is a really nice dude in real life and he is just doing the best he can. Know what? I couldn-¦t care less. He is the one that messes up the game, so i am attacking him for making EvE miserable. I would love to see him go. Not my decision though. And no, you cannot have my stuff, i will adapt to the changes and therefor i can adress any drawbacks in the game or the people responsible for it as much as i like.
**** me, we are all indirectly, paying his salary, so why not telling him when his work is shi...suboptimal?
|
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
350
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:21:00 -
[809] - Quote
DarthMopp wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: way to describe what you don't like and instead spend 75% of your post denigrating the person who made it instead of the changes
you are truly a treasure to the posting community
Hey, stop it, i am married...noones calling me treasure except for my wife, honey. Of course i am attacking him. He is the one responsible for this pile of crap which he is trying to sell us like the best invention since the self inflating rubber doll. Hes the one in charge, the guy with the hat on, El Cappo Primeiro! How could we forget the awesome changes and additions he gave us, like the nullified interceptor. Wohoo, that was truly a magic moment in the history of EvE. The "run back to gate" option was obviously way to difficult for some pilots so he had the close to brilliant idea to lighten the mechanic up that much my Labrador is able to fly interceptors through every gatecamp now. Know what, nullify everything cause being cought in bubbles may hurt the fragile players psyche and we cannot let this happen, aye? I could adress the changes themselves, cause i bet the guy is a really nice dude in real life and he is just doing the best he can. Know what? I couldn-¦t care less. He is the one that messes up the game, so i am attacking him for making EvE miserable. I would love to see him go. Not my decision though. And no, you cannot have my stuff, i will adapt to the changes and therefor i can adress any drawbacks in the game or the people responsible for it as much as i like. **** me, we are all indirectly, paying his salary, so why not telling him when his work is shi...suboptimal? what does this accomplish exactly
"oh man random proviblock poster #2398 thinks i'm an awful person, better revert the changes" |
DarthMopp
I.D.I.O.T. Sev3rance
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:28:00 -
[810] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:
what does this accomplish exactly
"oh man random proviblock poster #2398 thinks i'm an awful person, better revert the changes"
At least venting accomplishes that my blood pressure stays at an healthy level :)
and i am not random! I am very special snowflake ffs! |
|
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2578
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 00:11:00 -
[811] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:You opened this blog by stating which drones are used most in PvP and used that as some type of justification for balance or lack there of. In Eve we have no damage meters or anything like that which I think is a good thing. But because of that we players have no way of knowing what drones do what in specific situations so I think most players just look and the easily quantifiable stats like damage and range and equate that to some theoretical dps which is not based in fact.
For example I have noticed that while Gallente drones may do the most damage on paper due to tracking and maybe speed they seem to miss a lot more than other drone types. I strongly suggest that you guys find a way to determine actual landed dps in real game situations and use that as a balancing factor instead of player's perceptions.
After all you guys are the devs you have access to information we players do not and any balancing should be done based on factual information that can be gained from server data logging versus what the largely ignorant player base thinks or feels.
The AI changes you guys made to empire NPCs a while back was a significant nerf to drone dps due to the constant need to continually recall drones. Because of that fact I don't think the MWD changes to large drones will even come close to making them viable versus sentries in most situations.
These guys give no crap at all about PvE. The AI nerf was a drone-killer, period. It was designed to hammer PvE income, especially high sec income, and it succeeded. Once people adapted as best they could with sentries, especially Gardes, it was decided to wreck them too in the PVE setting.
No one still will be using heavies or mediums in missions after these changes, because the AI will still chew them up in seconds. However, in PvP, the heavy drone speed buff is a big deal.
Remember where this dev and kil2 come from. They NEVER had to grind ISK, and so never even consider what havoc they wreak on people that grind for their ISK. That is , of course, they feel like nerfing that income, then they are just chock full of ideas.
Read the CSM minutes. If you think this is bad, just wait until they "improve the PvE experience" further by making missions much harder. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Hiryu Jin
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
31
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 04:00:00 -
[812] - Quote
bah, I loved the shmoo's web strength bonus. :(
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
150
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 04:25:00 -
[813] - Quote
So after a quick read of the blog, I see;
Quote:we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries. An additional 80 days of training (4 races from 4 to 5) to get the same DPS from Sentries as now.
Quote: we are expanding all universal drone bonuses from skills and modules to Fighters and Fighter Bombers. Racial Drone Bonuses will affect Fighters and Fighter Bombers? If so then;
Quote:Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions. Is not entirely correct. Or will the specialization skills add 2% per level above current damage? Does this also mean the requirement of Drone Interfacing 5 is to be lowered for Fighters? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11051
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 04:46:00 -
[814] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:You opened this blog by stating which drones are used most in PvP and used that as some type of justification for balance or lack there of. In Eve we have no damage meters or anything like that which I think is a good thing. But because of that we players have no way of knowing what drones do what in specific situations so I think most players just look and the easily quantifiable stats like damage and range and equate that to some theoretical dps which is not based in fact.
For example I have noticed that while Gallente drones may do the most damage on paper due to tracking and maybe speed they seem to miss a lot more than other drone types. I strongly suggest that you guys find a way to determine actual landed dps in real game situations and use that as a balancing factor instead of player's perceptions.
After all you guys are the devs you have access to information we players do not and any balancing should be done based on factual information that can be gained from server data logging versus what the largely ignorant player base thinks or feels.
The AI changes you guys made to empire NPCs a while back was a significant nerf to drone dps due to the constant need to continually recall drones. Because of that fact I don't think the MWD changes to large drones will even come close to making them viable versus sentries in most situations. These guys give no crap at all about PvE. The AI nerf was a drone-killer, period. It was designed to hammer PvE income, especially high sec income, and it succeeded. Once people adapted as best they could with sentries, especially Gardes, it was decided to wreck them too in the PVE setting. No one still will be using heavies or mediums in missions after these changes, because the AI will still chew them up in seconds. However, in PvP, the heavy drone speed buff is a big deal. Remember where this dev and kil2 come from. They NEVER had to grind ISK, and so never even consider what havoc they wreak on people that grind for their ISK. That is , of course, they feel like nerfing that income, then they are just chock full of ideas. Read the CSM minutes. If you think this is bad, just wait until they "improve the PvE experience" further by making missions much harder.
God forbid you have to think a bit when running missions... Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Cardano Firesnake
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
121
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 09:11:00 -
[815] - Quote
Don't you think that the drone navigation computer could up the orbit speed? Perharps with a script to change between drone warp speed and orbit warp speed.....
|
Domwav II
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 10:17:00 -
[816] - Quote
What ever way you package or spin this it is obvious it is yet another nail in 0.0 activity, strange when you consider that all indications for the past four years have been that CCP wanted to increase Null sec activity yet as we have seen to date all actual changes have resulted in just the opposite effect with successive nerfs to all areas of income required for successful occupation in the very area CCP was promoting, the list is endless from mining through plexing and ratting onto tower reactions and even trying to force people to line up and get shot by nerfing jump bridges, We saw how well that one flew.... NOT!.
Now they have turned there attention to Drones, which from all indications so far published the only way to make this one work for you is either no EHP or no DPS for players skilled in Drone dependent ships used exclusively for PvE.
Add to this list that infernal internal strife promoter, (And thats not PvP by the way), The ESS and you almost have the complete package, vast areas of 0.0 space devoid of any players at all doing anything but occasional movements to service Moon mining towers, again odd that CCP would indicate there intentions to possibly increase system space available to players when such large areas are currently unused.
If someone in CCP would like to step up and explain to the players how this promotes greater content and interactive play in Null Sec or even enter into meaningful discussions on there train of thought in this area it would be appreciated, until then maybe you should hold off on your new ideas and concentrate more on what actually attracts players to the game in the first place because quite frankly this type of garbage shifting your currently engaged in is not quite doing it for us. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11053
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 10:59:00 -
[817] - Quote
Reset Razor. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11053
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 11:00:00 -
[818] - Quote
Reset Razor.
the forums double posted, guess it agrees. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5767
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 13:09:00 -
[819] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:You opened this blog by stating which drones are used most in PvP and used that as some type of justification for balance or lack there of. In Eve we have no damage meters or anything like that which I think is a good thing. But because of that we players have no way of knowing what drones do what in specific situations so I think most players just look and the easily quantifiable stats like damage and range and equate that to some theoretical dps which is not based in fact.
For example I have noticed that while Gallente drones may do the most damage on paper due to tracking and maybe speed they seem to miss a lot more than other drone types. I strongly suggest that you guys find a way to determine actual landed dps in real game situations and use that as a balancing factor instead of player's perceptions.
After all you guys are the devs you have access to information we players do not and any balancing should be done based on factual information that can be gained from server data logging versus what the largely ignorant player base thinks or feels.
The AI changes you guys made to empire NPCs a while back was a significant nerf to drone dps due to the constant need to continually recall drones. Because of that fact I don't think the MWD changes to large drones will even come close to making them viable versus sentries in most situations. These guys give no crap at all about PvE. The AI nerf was a drone-killer, period. It was designed to hammer PvE income, especially high sec income, and it succeeded. Once people adapted as best they could with sentries, especially Gardes, it was decided to wreck them too in the PVE setting. No one still will be using heavies or mediums in missions after these changes, because the AI will still chew them up in seconds. However, in PvP, the heavy drone speed buff is a big deal. Remember where this dev and kil2 come from. They NEVER had to grind ISK, and so never even consider what havoc they wreak on people that grind for their ISK. That is , of course, they feel like nerfing that income, then they are just chock full of ideas. Read the CSM minutes. If you think this is bad, just wait until they "improve the PvE experience" further by making missions much harder. God forbid you have to think a bit when running missions...
Exactly. That guys problem is that he's so mentally inflexible that he hates to adapt to change (you can see it in every post, but the Omnilinks threads was the best example), thus viewing all change as bad and worse yet, a conspiracy.
Meanwhile, those of us who can adapt are doing just fine, like me and my cap stable afk heavy drone Domi. Ogre IIs supported by navcomsp, a damp (lock on to a structure and damp it, NPCs treat it as an attack on them) + a small armor rep repping a can I jettison. The combination of repping and using ECM makes the NPCs just HATE you and for the most part it keeps aggro off my ogres. It's almost as easy to afk now than it was before the AI change.
These new drone changes will make AFKing even easier. Well, easier for anyone who puts a little thought into the process. Harder for people stuck in 2005.
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1088
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:55:00 -
[820] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:exactly, and this is not good at all when a company enters "minimal" mode on a game......
so what's the plan here? **** of as much as the player base as you can, so they leave, and in a year or two make a devblog stating "Sorry, not enought player anymore, we close the servers?"
this is what i'm feeling since +- 1 year judjing by the crap CCP pass to us as "expansions" and the falling number of players.....
They have the biggest team they've ever assigned to the problem working on the back end code. They have a team gearing up to either externally source or otherwise develop some robust content creation tools for a full PVE overhaul. When will the work be done? Who knows? Not you, not me, not CCP. It's done when it's done.
What would happen if CCP just announced that they were going heads down, dropping everything to retire their technical debt? RAEG, that's what would happen. So they have people doing work on the cleaner, easier, more public-facing parts of the code so the game can continue to improve while the gnomes in the back tackle the unglamorous and indeterminate work of fixing the foundation.
If you were in CCP's situation, what would you do differently?
On topic: I'm extremely curious about the language used concerning the Amarr and Caldari drones. If there are in fact changes coming that would allow them to shine as best in class at a yet-to-be-revealed capability, then I will hold my objection that there's still not much of a reason to use them. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
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Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 17:57:00 -
[821] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Quote: we are expanding all universal drone bonuses from skills and modules to Fighters and Fighter Bombers. Racial Drone Bonuses will affect Fighters and Fighter Bombers? If so then; Quote:Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions. Is not entirely correct. Or will the specialization skills add 2% per level above current damage? Does this also mean the requirement of Drone Interfacing 5 is to be lowered for Fighters?
Fighters and fighter bombers are not T2 items, and the racial drone skills do not affect T1 drones. They are also not universal bonuses, since they affect specific drones.
There has been no hint that this requirement will be lowered.
|
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
178
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 10:48:00 -
[822] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Love it, one thing though.
Any chance on moving the bulk of the drone HP put of hull and evenly distributing it between hull, shield and armor?
This is actually a really nice quality-of-life request. if even only moved to Armor it would be fantastic. It's such a pig to repair your drone hull when they've been damaged, and so much nicer to top up armor.
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
151
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 12:28:00 -
[823] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Quote: we are expanding all universal drone bonuses from skills and modules to Fighters and Fighter Bombers. Racial Drone Bonuses will affect Fighters and Fighter Bombers? If so then; Quote:Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal and all the other skills and bonuses from Drone Damage Amplifiers are pure additions. Is not entirely correct. Or will the specialization skills add 2% per level above current damage? Does this also mean the requirement of Drone Interfacing 5 is to be lowered for Fighters? Fighters and fighter bombers are not T2 items, and the racial drone skills do not affect T1 drones. They are also not universal bonuses, since they affect specific drones. There has been no hint that this requirement will be lowered. I would have thought; "returns to normal"
"Fighters will find that with Drone Interfacing trained to five their basic damage returns to normal"
Might be a hint that Drone Interfacing 5 would no longer be a requirement for fighters. Alternately it is just a badly worded sentence and what it should say is - fighters will notice no difference to current damage but are able to increase it with Drone Damage Amps. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
622
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 17:35:00 -
[824] - Quote
So I compared the new basic damage stats to the old ones for sentry drones. I am deeply troubled. In this day and age, is it truly CCPs intent to buff all sentry damage by 25-58%?
example for Curator I: old new basemultiplierspecresultbasemultiplierspecresultchange
50 1.30 0 65 64 1.6 0 102.40157.54%
Free Ripley Weaver! |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
357
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 17:48:00 -
[825] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:So I compared the new basic damage stats to the old ones for sentry drones. I am deeply troubled. In this day and age, is it truly CCPs intent to buff all sentry damage by 25-58%?
example for Curator I: old new basemultiplierspecresultbasemultiplierspecresultchange
50 1.30 0 65 64 1.6 0 102.40157.54%
that table did not translate well to a forum post
also yes they buffed the damage of t1 sentries
from the devblog:
Quote: but instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries.
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1153
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 13:23:00 -
[826] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Okay, I'm a little confused now. Instead of the much simpler version of "Combat Drone Operation M >> Light Drone Operation M and Medium Drone Operation M" which makes logical sense, you're using the higher of two different skills to do both?
Seems to me the devblog had the simpler and more sense-making version.
Semi-unrelated:
I think Combat Drone Operation (or rather, Light/Medium Drone Operation) and Scout Drone Operation (Drone Avionics) have their unlocks backwards.
Scout Drone Operation currently gives a 5km/level bonus to drone control range, but unlocks T1/T2 versions of the light and medium combat drones. Combat Drone Operation gives a 5%/level bonus to light and medium drone damage, but unlocks T1 and T2 Drone Link Augmentor modules.
Isn't this backwards? Shouldn't the skill that gives bonuses to control range for all drones (SDO/Avionics) unlock the control range modules, and the skill(s) that gives bonuses to drone damage unlock the drones it gives bonuses to? Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 15:11:00 -
[827] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Okay, I'm a little confused now. Instead of the much simpler version of "Combat Drone Operation M >> Light Drone Operation M and Medium Drone Operation M" which makes logical sense, you're using the higher of two different skills to do both? Seems to me the devblog had the simpler and more sense-making version. Semi-unrelated: I think Combat Drone Operation (or rather, Light/Medium Drone Operation) and Scout Drone Operation (Drone Avionics) have their unlocks backwards. Scout Drone Operation currently gives a 5km/level bonus to drone control range, but unlocks T1/T2 versions of the light and medium combat drones. Combat Drone Operation gives a 5%/level bonus to light and medium drone damage, but unlocks T1 and T2 Drone Link Augmentor modules. Isn't this backwards? Shouldn't the skill that gives bonuses to control range for all drones (SDO/Avionics) unlock the control range modules, and the skill(s) that gives bonuses to drone damage unlock the drones it gives bonuses to?
The problem with the first part is that it could leave people unable to use drones after the patch. Neither solution is perfect, but they have always gone with the philosophy of "can use before, can use after"
As to the second part, I entirely agree, and this is being partially corrected by having the unlocking of the drones moved to the skill which provides the damage bonus. However, there has been no mention of what skill will unlock the drone control range modules. I'd agree that it should be avionics.
The situation is further confused by the fact that the storyline drone link augmentor is unlocked by a totally different skill from every other meta of that module. Whoever added that appears to have put it in the logical place for it to be instead of with the rest of its kind. |
Myrthiis
Lost World Compagny Quebec United Legions
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 00:09:00 -
[828] - Quote
Ok i'll try to be construtive here .
The devs stated that where are currently in a situation where Caldari and Amarr are "friendzoned" by the playerbase so to counteract this situation they come to us with a new policy "DPS vs SPEED" as u can see here http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/giving-drones-an-assist/ .
Well i'm sorry but it feel wrong as we are already in a situation where we have to choose between DPS vs SPEED ,and we make this decision each time we choose to embark light drone over medium ones ,or each time we choose to embark sentry over heavy . So why should we make the same decision again between racial drone in the same category ,this not what i want to choose at this moment .... When i choosed a category of drones to accomplish a certain task let's say i want to hunt frig with my drones,i'll embark light scout drone.Basically once a player choosed a category of drone over another ,he doesnt care anymore about tracking /velocity/orbit velocity etc.He already made a choice ,now he wants to choose a damage typer over another and eventually a resistance pattern (shield vs armor could be interesting).SImple as that
So here is my proposition remove any numbers difference for tracking/damage modifier/maxspeed/orbit velocity in the same drone category a light scout drone should be one no matter the racial ,then adapt the resistance to match the racial lore and you re done :) u ll see people using caldari and amarr drone again .
P-s i won't talk about fighters as they are out of my league |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
153
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 01:32:00 -
[829] - Quote
Quote:CCP Fozzie wrote: Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. I'm curious, does this mean if i have scout drone operation 5, drone interfacing 5 and combat drone operation 4 I will have a lower skill level? |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 04:26:00 -
[830] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Quote:CCP Fozzie wrote: Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. I'm curious, does this mean if i have scout drone operation 5, drone interfacing 5 and combat drone operation 4 I will have a lower skill level?
No... Number one, I have no idea why you're listing drone interfacing at all. Number two, you'll get both of the new skills to V because you have Scout Drone Operation to V. |
|
Abigail Sagan
Skeleton Liberation Front
54
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 06:14:00 -
[831] - Quote
On one hand we have Dev Blog saying:
DevBlog wrote:During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to.
and on other we have Fozzie the Forum Poster saying:
CCP Fozzie wrote:As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
Which one is the method CCP will be using? If it is the former, then Fozzie is spreading misinformation. If it is the latter, CCP should fix the devblog.
Fozzie wrote that over a week ago and the contradiction has been pointed out to them about seven days ago too. CCP should realize that most people don't read the dev blog and even fewer people bother to read 40+ pages of comments from the forums. Therefore DevBlog has more readers than the forums and if DevBlog is wrong, CCP 'lies' to all those who read DevBlog. On the other hand, if DevBlog is telling the truth, Fozzie 'lies' to all those who do bother to read the forums. If they do nothing, CCP lies to some of us. Did their parents not teach them "Lying is no good!"?
CCP, if you read this, please fix the contradiction. It is for your own good. PS: Nobody needs to remind me, that CCP rarely reads forum posts after a little while. I know that. However, there is still hope. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
97
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 19:38:00 -
[832] - Quote
I'm inclined to believe the response Fozzie gave in the thread when people started asking...
But yes, they should change the devblog. |
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
301
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 11:52:00 -
[833] - Quote
I really like the changes to drones in the Summer, keep the goodness coming guys...C:
A couple of suggestions.
1. As already said in the thread, we really need something more for Amarr and Caldari non sentry drones to be viable. Right now, combat drones are judged on 2 main attributes. Speed and Damage. Minnie drones are the fastest, Gallente drones are the most damaging, and Caldari/Amarr drones fall somewhere in between those two.
A way to differentiate drones some more, while boosting Amarr and Caldari drones a little would be to add another two attributes to the rebalance effort, and that would be EHP and tracking. Right now, Gallente drones have the most EHP AND damage and Minmatar drones the best tracking AND speed.
For an arbitrary example, Gallente drones would be the most damaging, Amarr drones the most resilient, Caldari drones the least susceptible to tracking issues and Minmatar drones the fastest. A change like that will certainly NOT deal with all the problems, but its a start.
2. Another suggestion that might help while providing some more flavor would be to change around the armor resist profiles of drones, according to their race, like T1 hulls do.
Hope that helps, cheers...C: |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 17:16:00 -
[834] - Quote
Tippia wrote:PinkKnife wrote:For a mix of the two. It is now easier to decide on the spectrum which is more important, speed or DPS. If you want only dps, go Gallente, if you want only speed go Minmatar, if you want mostly speed go Amarr, and if you want mostly DPS go Caldari.
Not that hard. That's the problem: it's a mediocre mix of two things with no advantage in either. That is exactly what we already have and it is already not working. Making it not work more consistently and evenly doesn't fix the problem that it doesn't work. The problem here is that they're trying to balance four drones with just two stats. That means that we will have two drones that matter GÇö the ones that max out one of stats GÇö and two that (still) don't GÇö the ones that offer no advantage. To have that kind of difference-balance, they need more relevant stats so that the two irrelevant drones have an area to excel in. Fundamentally, the problem is this pretty silly notion that they must do different amounts of damage and that this notion ignores the fact that resistances and damage profiles already does that. Amarr drones will be pointless against fast target GÇö you'll want minny drones for that for the simple reason that if you pick too slow a drone, it doesn't matter whether it does the right damage type or not since it won't catch the target. Amarr drones will still be pointless against EM-weak targets GÇö resist weaknesses can only be relied upon against rats, and all EM-weak rats are also thermal-weak, so you'll still want gallente drones against those. Likewise, Caldari drones will be pointless against tough targets GÇö you'll want the most damage against those and that's still Gallente drones, and you gain no real advantage from getting to the tough target slightly faster. And for kinetic-weak targets, it's the same problem with Caldari drones as for Amarr drones GÇö it's only an advantage if you can reliably predict it, which means it's only relevant against rats and kn-weak rats will be thermal-weak anyway. Hell, even now, there's an actual advantage in using Caldari drones against kn-weak rats and look how popular they are as a resultGǪ At no point will these weak drones offer any kind of compelling advantage or useful application over the two races that max out one of the stats. Middle-of-the-road mediocrity is not a convincing selling point over specialised excellence. So as long as they keep that same wrong-headed design pattern, where four drones are squeezed into a two-dimensional continuum, two of those drones will always be meaningless. There's really no reason to separate the drones in damage output at all. Just make them do the same damage and let resists matter, and then find three other characteristics that can be used as a trade-off for speed, and where each drone race has its own distinct advantage. If they can't find three characteristics, then skip the speed differentiation as well, and just let the damage type be the only differentiator.
1. divide drones into 2 types inside their own classes:
-attack drones: high speed, low damage -combat drones: high damage, low speed
for sentries that would be
-brawler sentries: high damage, high tracking, low range -sniper sentries: low damage, low tracking, high range
this should mirror the turret types
2. drones get racial attributes:
-gallente drones have more hull and have the same optimal and falloff relation as hybrids -amarr drones have more armor and have the same optimal and falloff relation as lasers -minmatar drones have equal shield and armor and have better speed, optimal and falloff relations as projectiles -caldari drones have more shield, use missiles this time, code similar(if not the same?) to FiBos, rate of fire and other specs similar to those of missiles, still do only kin damage
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
154
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 02:36:00 -
[835] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Quote:CCP Fozzie wrote: Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. I'm curious, does this mean if i have scout drone operation 5, drone interfacing 5 and combat drone operation 4 I will have a lower skill level? No... Number one, I have no idea why you're listing drone interfacing at all. Number two, you'll get both of the new skills to V because you have Scout Drone Operation to V. Maybe because, information given by a Dev I have little faith in, has given a different answer to what is in the official Blog on the subject.
Quote:During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to. Funnily, you gave exactly the opposite answer to the blog as well.
So excuse me if there is a little confusion. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
154
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 04:03:00 -
[836] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:I'm inclined to believe the response Fozzie gave in the thread when people started asking...
But yes, they should change the devblog. Fozzies response would be the preferred option for those just training into drones. Simply train Drones 3 then combat drones 5 and save yourself a few days training. You can then train the new Drone Avionics at your leisure, you would already have light and medium drones to 5.
And I agree the dev blog should contain easy to understand, accurate information. |
Dave Stark
4881
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 12:38:00 -
[837] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
considering this was posted nearly a week ago, and the devblog hasn't been updated to reflect it...
i suggest you do that before people waste time, as i almost did. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
625
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 19:03:00 -
[838] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:that table did not translate well to a forum post also yes they buffed the damage of t1 sentries from the devblog: Quote: but instead of the current 20% increase in damage over T1, we will be increasing the base damage multiplier of Tech One sentries and limiting the Tech Two advantage to the 2% per level gained from the racial Drone Specialization skills that will now be required to use T2 sentries.
Yeah, sorry, not much I could do about the formatting. CCP forums have no table formatting options.
I am aware of the change you quoted. But the 10%/lvl removed ....
10% per level
I see my mistake now. Thx. Free Ripley Weaver! |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
311
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 19:23:00 -
[839] - Quote
spliting up combat drone operation into 2 seperate skills is ********. whats next? racial heavy drone operation ?
can you make advanced drone interfacing not useless on every ship except carriers?
also this needs to be moved into F&I |
Ace Northmen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 20:24:00 -
[840] - Quote
So i have trained Scout drone operation and combat drone operation to level 5
And now those who have trained Scout drone operation to 5 and never bothered to inject combat drone operation which is 11 days from lvl 1 to 5 , will get the same skills as me .
that's not fair , people investing time in training both skills are the same as people who never bothered to inject 1 skill will get the same skills . |
|
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
632
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 21:00:00 -
[841] - Quote
Ace Northmen wrote:So i have trained Scout drone operation and combat drone operation to level 5 And now those who have trained Scout drone operation to 5 and never bothered to inject combat drone operation which is 11 days from lvl 1 to 5 , will get the same skills as me . that's not fair , people investing time in training both skills are the same as people who never bothered to inject 1 skill will get the same skills .
That is not what it says. The two new skills are Light and Medium Combat Drones. Both of these will be derived from the current Combat Drone Operation skill. If someone didn't train Combat Drone Operation prior to the change, they won't magically have the new skills afterwards. If they had it at 3, then they will get those two skills at 3 afterwards.
Scout Drone Operation is merely being renamed to Drone Avionics. Coming soon... |
Ace Northmen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 21:40:00 -
[842] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Ace Northmen wrote:So i have trained Scout drone operation and combat drone operation to level 5 And now those who have trained Scout drone operation to 5 and never bothered to inject combat drone operation which is 11 days from lvl 1 to 5 , will get the same skills as me . that's not fair , people investing time in training both skills are the same as people who never bothered to inject 1 skill will get the same skills . That is not what it says. The two new skills are Light and Medium Combat Drones. Both of these will be derived from the current Combat Drone Operation skill. If someone didn't train Combat Drone Operation prior to the change, they won't magically have the new skills afterwards. If they had it at 3, then they will get those two skills at 3 afterwards. Scout Drone Operation is merely being renamed to Drone Avionics.
have you read this ?
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
|
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omen Industries -Entropy-
267
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 00:38:00 -
[843] - Quote
what about mining drones? will they benefit from new skills?
How the Drone Interfacing change will affect them? "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
The Tallman
Krannon of Sherwood Carthage Empires
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 04:48:00 -
[844] - Quote
Here is an idea for drones. Could you make it possible to assign groups of drones to a button system like guns and other modules are. So instead of having them in folders like your right clicking in windows 2.0 for just what ever drones are in that folder, make buttons you can assign any combination of drones in the bay to for deployment, attack and return....
I mean it's space ships, why are we still doing it this way? |
Dana Goodeye
Quafe Commandos The Obsidian Front
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 05:11:00 -
[845] - Quote
to be honest, im only a 4 months old eve player, most of the things i don unersand yet, but i have to agree with two opinions. once, i like drones. and i use only gal, and minnie drones, for dps or speed. i never bothered by the cald or amarr drones. second, i have booth skills at lvl 5. i mean scout drone operation, and combat drone operation. if i would have only one of them on lvl 5, and the other one on lvl 0 , i will have the same skills at the same level. it means, im losing skilling time, ccp will stole it -.- i think booth problems should be solved. sorry for my english, i speak it badly :/ |
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omen Industries -Entropy-
267
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 17:26:00 -
[846] - Quote
mining drones ? :P "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
158
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 00:06:00 -
[847] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
could this please be stated in the blog - I've just reread it twice, and found no mention of skill ranks, or that scout drone operation will feature...... For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it WILL be. |
Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
713
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 00:45:00 -
[848] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. could this please be stated in the blog - I've just reread it twice, and found no mention of skill ranks, or that scout drone operation will feature......
I would like further clarification on this too. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
157
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 01:12:00 -
[849] - Quote
Could somebody work out what the 20 days for 2% additional damage from Gallente Drone Specialization 4 to 5 will add up to for Gardes.
I think all specialization skills should be worth more the higher you train. So for Drone Specialization as you train the skill to 5, the benefit increases accordingly. As it is now lvl 1 takes 24 mins and gives 2% bonus, lvl 5 takes 20 days but still only adds an additional 2%.
Drone specializations could work like - Level 1, unlocks the T2 drone (light, medium, heavy and sentry) Level 2, gives a 2% damage increase Level 3, adds and additional 3% damage Level 4, adds 5% damage Level 5, doubles the 5% from level 4, to end up with a total of 10% damage increase at lvl 5 as it is now but the 20 days training gives the most benefit.
Unlocks for T2 drones would need pre-requisites of lvl 5 in class. So to use T2 heavy drones you would need Heavy Drone Operation 5 and Specialization 1. T2 sentry drones would require, Sentry Drone Operation 5 and specialization 1.
This would actually reduce training times to get T2 drones (a little bit) but also give specializing to 5 more of an incentive for maximum damage. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
160
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 08:18:00 -
[850] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Could somebody work out what the 20 days for 2% additional damage from Gallente Drone Specialization 4 to 5 will add up to for Gardes.
I think all specialization skills should be worth more the higher you train. So for Drone Specialization as you train the skill to 5, the benefit increases accordingly. As it is now lvl 1 takes 24 mins and gives 2% bonus, lvl 5 takes 20 days but still only adds an additional 2%.
Drone specializations could work like - Level 1, unlocks the T2 drone (light, medium, heavy and sentry) Level 2, gives a 2% damage increase Level 3, adds and additional 3% damage Level 4, adds 5% damage Level 5, doubles the 5% from level 4, to end up with a total of 10% damage increase at lvl 5 as it is now but the 20 days training gives the most benefit.
Unlocks for T2 drones would need pre-requisites of lvl 5 in class. So to use T2 heavy drones you would need Heavy Drone Operation 5 and Specialization 1. T2 sentry drones would require, Sentry Drone Operation 5 and specialization 1.
This would actually reduce training times to get T2 drones (a little bit) but also give specializing to 5 more of an incentive for maximum damage.
the unlocks will now be as you have described..... however - the whole of EVE works on a diminishing returns scheme, so specialisations are not going to change - because they are SPECIALISATION. If you specialise in using gallente drones - it very likely becomes worth it to train gallente drone spec V because the 2% increase is worth the time sink, personally - not worth it for me, so I'll train up drone specs to III, maybe IV until I start training all sorts of specialisations to V For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it WILL be. |
|
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
633
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 19:05:00 -
[851] - Quote
Ace Northmen wrote:Soldarius wrote:
have you read this ?
[quote=CCP Fozzie]Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Oh, my. I do not recall reading that. Doesn't mean I didn't. Just means my memory is doing its typical thing. In either case, it needs to be featured prominently on the front page.
Coming soon... |
ArmEagle Kusoni
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
34
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 08:59:00 -
[852] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
So, technically that means one doesn't need Combat Drone Operation trained at all. But I kind of doubt that's the case. |
Ace Northmen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 21:54:00 -
[853] - Quote
ArmEagle Kusoni wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. So, technically that means one doesn't need Combat Drone Operation trained at all. But I kind of doubt that's the case.
true what that means is you don't need to have combat drone operation at all , which is a bad thing for those who have it trained to V
|
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3125
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 10:17:00 -
[854] - Quote
As others have mentioned, Scout Drone Operation is the skill that currently unlocks light and medium drones. Combat Drone Operation is a prerequisite for Drone Link Augmentors, not drones. Why should this skill affect which drones we can use?
What about people who currently have Scout Drone Operation trained to V, and can use T2 light and medium drones? Will they no longer be able to use them after the patch unless they have Combat Drone Operation V? Oh god. |
Rikki Bigg
EVE University Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 15:11:00 -
[855] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Can we get some clarification on this point, as the original Dev Blog has no reference to Scout Drone Operation other than it being renamed Drone Avionics...?
Currently the 'free skillpoints' from training Combat Drone Operation (x2) and obtaining Light Drone Operation (x1) as well as Medium Drone Operation (x2) are quite minimal, and not worth training cross map (or even on map for a newer player) and I have been trying to explain to folks that is is not nearly the bonus that Destroyers or Battlecruisers were.
But if instead you get access to Light/Medium Drone Operation from solely Scout Drone Operation (x1) a skill that is universally good for any drones, I will tell each and every new player to train Scout Drone Operation to V immediately.
This seems like an oversight, or just a gift to every doctrine Sentry Drone pilot that never bothered to train anything else. |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
73
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 13:08:00 -
[856] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:One more quick update before I go home. I'll do another more comprehensive pass on the thread tomorrow.
For the racial Drone Specialization skill requirements, we're going to be reducing the requirements for all T2 drones to level 1 of the skill.
That means for example Gallente Drone Spec level 1 will unlock Hobgoblin IIs, Hammerhead IIs, Ogre IIs, and Garde IIs (assuming you have the requisite T1 drone skills at level 5). This brings the drone spec skills more in line with the rest of our T2 weapon specialization skills. Training the skill beyond level 1 will still be advisable in order to get the extra damage boost, of course.
Can we get a clear image on what is needed to field T2 sentries after the patch?
At the moment it's: Primary: Sentry Drone Interfacing V Secondary: Drones I
WIll it be: Primary: (Racial) Drone Specialization I Secondary: Sentry Drone Interfacing V Tertiary: Drones I? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1120
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 19:23:00 -
[857] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:One more quick update before I go home. I'll do another more comprehensive pass on the thread tomorrow.
For the racial Drone Specialization skill requirements, we're going to be reducing the requirements for all T2 drones to level 1 of the skill.
That means for example Gallente Drone Spec level 1 will unlock Hobgoblin IIs, Hammerhead IIs, Ogre IIs, and Garde IIs (assuming you have the requisite T1 drone skills at level 5). This brings the drone spec skills more in line with the rest of our T2 weapon specialization skills. Training the skill beyond level 1 will still be advisable in order to get the extra damage boost, of course. Can we get a clear image on what is needed to field T2 sentries after the patch? At the moment it's: Primary: Sentry Drone Interfacing V Secondary: Drones I WIll it be: Primary: (Racial) Drone Specialization I Secondary: Sentry Drone Interfacing V Tertiary: Drones I? You will need sentry 5 and racial drone spec 1. Anything else is kinda redundant since SDI already requires drones V.
Adrie Atticus wrote:Can we get some clarification on this point, as the original Dev Blog has no reference to Scout Drone Operation other than it being renamed Drone Avionics...?
Currently the 'free skillpoints' from training Combat Drone Operation (x2) and obtaining Light Drone Operation (x1) as well as Medium Drone Operation (x2) are quite minimal, and not worth training cross map (or even on map for a newer player) and I have been trying to explain to folks that is is not nearly the bonus that Destroyers or Battlecruisers were.
But if instead you get access to Light/Medium Drone Operation from solely Scout Drone Operation (x1) a skill that is universally good for any drones, I will tell each and every new player to train Scout Drone Operation to V immediately.
This seems like an oversight, or just a gift to every doctrine Sentry Drone pilot that never bothered to train anything else. It was a clarification brought about afterwards and takes precedent over the blog. Reason for the change being if one had for example Combat drone op 4, Scout drone op 5 and all racial drone specs at 2, they had access to all light and medium T2 drones, but after the change they wouldn't as those unlocks would be migrating to the skills split from combat drone op.
So in the nature of if you could use it before you can use it after, the new skills which were originally coming from Combat drone op are now cloning the higher od SDO or CDO. That being the case if you have SDO V there isn't much point training CDO. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
171
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 20:23:00 -
[858] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Could somebody work out what the 20 days for 2% additional damage from Gallente Drone Specialization 4 to 5 will add up to for Gardes.
I think all specialization skills should be worth more the higher you train. So for Drone Specialization as you train the skill to 5, the benefit increases accordingly. As it is now lvl 1 takes 24 mins and gives 2% bonus, lvl 5 takes 20 days but still only adds an additional 2%.
Drone specializations could work like - Level 1, unlocks the T2 drone (light, medium, heavy and sentry) Level 2, gives a 2% damage increase Level 3, adds and additional 3% damage Level 4, adds 5% damage Level 5, doubles the 5% from level 4, to end up with a total of 10% damage increase at lvl 5 as it is now but the 20 days training gives the most benefit.
Unlocks for T2 drones would need pre-requisites of lvl 5 in class. So to use T2 heavy drones you would need Heavy Drone Operation 5 and Specialization 1. T2 sentry drones would require, Sentry Drone Operation 5 and specialization 1.
This would actually reduce training times to get T2 drones (a little bit) but also give specializing to 5 more of an incentive for maximum damage. the unlocks will now be as you have described..... however - the whole of EVE works on a diminishing returns scheme, so specialisations are not going to change - because they are SPECIALISATION. If you specialise in using gallente drones - it very likely becomes worth it to train gallente drone spec V because the 2% increase is worth the time sink, personally - not worth it for me, so I'll train up drone specs to III, maybe IV until I start training all sorts of specialisations to V And there in lies my issue. Right now I have maxed sentry drone skills for all 4 factions. Post patch I will have less than perfect skills for Gardes and Bouncers due to drone specializations only being at 4 and even worse for Wardens and Curators which both specializations are at 2 and 3 respectively. This equates to an additional 80+ days of training to get 'back' to where I am currently. I rarely use heavy drones and don't see this changing post update, so this change significantly marrs my ability to use both my Ishtar and more so with the Super Drone creation my Rattlesnake.
Oh and for those who would say- Just train them up, I already have over 7 mil SP in drones and don't feel I should LOSE the benefit from what I already have trained because CCP wants to change things. |
Fr3akwave
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 19:12:00 -
[859] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime. So since i have been bringing my drone skills up to all 5 in the past months, you are now telling me that training combat drone operation V was 100% waste of time because i would have gotten it anyway? Thank you very much.
The only reason those people suggested that is "Can i haz free SP, i have scout drone op V but not combat drone op V". I also don't understand this decision in relation to the bonus of the skills. Scout drone op and combat drone op are completely different bonuses and a drone range bonus is used as a base for rebalancing a drone damage skill? What's gonna be next? Getting a free turret DPS skill because you have trained a locking range one that sounds remotely similar?
I also recommended training combat drone op V to friends who then did it after the blog was first released without following this threadnaught...
CCP Fozzie wrote:We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch. Guess it is not a good idea to follow those "early" announcements too quickly... things apparently might turn out to be a loss for you.
Also i believe that this is worth an edit in the original blog post if that has not happened yet, since more and more people will fall for it. |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
852
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 19:16:00 -
[860] - Quote
As CCP already has a Team "Game of Thrones", as seen here:
CCP Phantom wrote:With Rubicon 1.1, to be deployed on Tuesday, Jan 28, we will introduce amongst other things the new Sisters of EVE battleship, the Nestor. Team "Game of Drones" worked also on UI improvements such as adding "Traits" to the ship "Show info" window which will show skill bonus applied to the ship in a similar fashion as the ISIS.
I really take offense that this blog isn-¦t named "A Dance with Drones".
Just saying! Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Mangala Solaris for CSM 9
|
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1120
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 19:24:00 -
[861] - Quote
Fr3akwave wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime. So since i have been bringing my drone skills up to all 5 in the past months, you are now telling me that training combat drone operation V was 100% waste of time because i would have gotten it anyway? Thank you very much. The only reason those people suggested that is "Can i haz free SP, i have scout drone op V but not combat drone op V". I also don't understand this decision in relation to the bonus of the skills. Scout drone op and combat drone op are completely different bonuses and a drone range bonus is used as a base for rebalancing a drone damage skill? What's gonna be next? Getting a free turret DPS skill because you have trained a locking range one that sounds remotely similar? I also recommended training combat drone op V to friends who then did it after the blog was first released without following this threadnaught... CCP Fozzie wrote:We're announcing this change early so that players have plenty of time to train the skills before the patch. Guess it is not a good idea to follow those "early" announcements too quickly... things apparently might turn out to be a loss for you. Also i believe that this is worth an edit in the original blog post if that has not happened yet, since more and more people will fall for it. EDIT: And indeed there is no warning about it yet. Wasted skillpoints ftw. It was done to keep people from losing the ability to use medium and light T2 drones. It had nothing to do with free SP. Anyone after free SP is seeking only the benefit of higher clone costs, so why do you even care? |
Fr3akwave
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 19:52:00 -
[862] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:It was done to keep people from losing the ability to use medium and light T2 drones. It had nothing to do with free SP. Anyone after free SP is seeking only the benefit of higher clone costs, so why do you even care?
That's why those changes are announced in advance, right?
The problem of clone costs doesn't really affect me as i'm a FW pilot and there are no bubbles in low, while extra DPS does affect me :P |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1120
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 19:57:00 -
[863] - Quote
Fr3akwave wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:It was done to keep people from losing the ability to use medium and light T2 drones. It had nothing to do with free SP. Anyone after free SP is seeking only the benefit of higher clone costs, so why do you even care? That's why those changes are announced in advance, right? The problem of clone costs doesn't really affect me as i'm a FW pilot and there are no bubbles in low, while extra DPS does affect me :P Actually, yes, that IS why they were announced in advance. In addition to allowing people to prepare, they are also given in advance for feedback reasons, which is how the oversight of current T2 drone users without CDO V was caught.
It's worth noting though that whole game changes aren't balanced around individual use cases though, so really what you individually do means absolutely nothing in the face of the change as a whole.
|
Fr3akwave
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 07:20:00 -
[864] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Fr3akwave wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:It was done to keep people from losing the ability to use medium and light T2 drones. It had nothing to do with free SP. Anyone after free SP is seeking only the benefit of higher clone costs, so why do you even care? That's why those changes are announced in advance, right? The problem of clone costs doesn't really affect me as i'm a FW pilot and there are no bubbles in low, while extra DPS does affect me :P Actually, yes, that IS why they were announced in advance. In addition to allowing people to prepare, they are also given in advance for feedback reasons, which is how the oversight of current T2 drone users without CDO V was caught. It's worth noting though that whole game changes aren't balanced around individual use cases though, so really what you individually do means absolutely nothing in the face of the change as a whole.
Oh my, skill requirements changed! Afair, there have been several cases of "being able to use before but not after rebalance", and all of them have been 1. given enough time to fix or 2. solved otherwise. Technically I don't have all the requirements for HACs, yet I can fly them.
On the topic of clone costs and therefore off topic: More efficient = better, i don't give a **** about the costs and the people thinking the same way are most likely everyone but but a fraction of the player base. Those people who do feel bad about it probably make excessive use of the flawed mechanic of pod-express, right? Instant teleportation to random station getting expensive!? Bad for you, maybe the whole concept is bad for the game as a whole, but thats a whole different discussion for a different thread. |
Riddick RichardB
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 21:07:00 -
[865] - Quote
Was expecting lowsec drone assist. Please for the love of yarr work this in with the rest of the drone changes.
|
Brizzi
The loonibin Free United Spirits
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 02:38:00 -
[866] - Quote
What About mining drones ?
If 'Drone Interfacing' is cut down to 10%/lvl, then the mining drones lose 50% in output, because they also have bonus in 'Drone Interfacing' |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
175
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 07:24:00 -
[867] - Quote
Riddick RichardB wrote:Was expecting lowsec drone assist. Please for the love of yarr work this in with the rest of the drone changes. Asked and answered - about 20 pages back. Lowsec will never get drone assist due to criminal flagging.
Brizzi wrote:What About mining drones ?
If 'Drone Interfacing' is cut down to 10%/lvl, then the mining drones lose 50% in output, because they also have bonus in 'Drone Interfacing' This has also been asked many times but as yet I haven't seen a Dev response. Good point, hopefully your asking will get an official response.
It's the little things, often missed or forgotten that can make all the difference. |
Riddick RichardB
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.24 10:32:00 -
[868] - Quote
Thanks Sgt Ocker, I missed that post
CCP Fozzie wrote:Grarr Dexx wrote:So how about giving drone assist back to pirates in lowsec? The opportunities for confusion about the crimewarch implications of actions (the pilot who assisted the drones would lose sec status and get gate guns without any direct action on their part) means this is not something we plan to change. Drone assist will continue to be a mechanic that is somewhat limited in empire space, along with other mechanics such as bombs and bubbles.
Just pointing out, this is EXACTLY what a group of lowsec pirates wants to happen. It's not like a new player getting nuked by Concord because he assisted drones to a mission buddy who went and earned himself a criminal flag. We're quite aware that we are engaging on a gate in lowsec, and gate gun agro is eminent.
The confusing part is having a game mechanic that works in nullsec, works in lowsec IF the target is a criminal/wartarget (won't earn suspect flag), and then randomly DOESN'T work in order to "protect" the pilots from the action they are deliberately trying to initiate...
|
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
102
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 10:12:00 -
[869] - Quote
how about an increase on sentry scoop range? |
Jebediah Phoenix
The Conference Elite CODE.
55
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 20:17:00 -
[870] - Quote
Right, so I've just wasted a week training combat drone operation to level V when I could've trained scout drone operation, a skill I'll eventually train to level 5 anyway, for the exact same benefit in half the time? Thanks for making the original dev post clear and wasting the past week on my training queue o/ |
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
374
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 20:33:00 -
[871] - Quote
I haven't replied to this thread in about thirty pages, but I got some positive feedback on my original response, so I decided to post a more developed proposal over in F&I. I am aware of course, that my proposals probably will not make it into the game, but for what it is worth:
My thread in F&I This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
131
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 21:00:00 -
[872] - Quote
Wohoo!! Finally, a Drones revamp! =D
As a drone user, I like the changes and how you managed to make everything fit and balanced. I could start listing all changes, but I'll just say I like them all and find them logical. Little question: so Curators are completely losing their falloff? Wouldn't they better keep a bit of it? I think I didn't understand that very well.
Now, after this Dev Blog, the Pirate ships rebalance, the 6 new misterious ships, the Industry revamp... I am REALLY excited and looking forward to the Summer Expansion! It's like if you decided to put everything I wanted into a single expansion. Yay! |
UU0113
Akh'Velahr
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 16:30:00 -
[873] - Quote
Quote:That means that on average, all drones will be gaining about 33% more base damage... Source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/giving-drones-an-assist/
An example (according to the DroneRevamp Excel sheet):
Warrior II Explosive damage increase from 15 to 20 = 33,33%
Bouncer II Explosive damage increase from 50 to 64 = 28%
Did I missunderstood something here? |
Gefel
Drowning In Drones Inc
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:29:00 -
[874] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Would it be possible for CCP to update the dev blog with this information? Right now the blog still conflicts with this statement update. Players are making training choices in preparation for these changes, that are resulting in a week of wasted SP cycles...
Thanks!
|
Stan Blake
NewRingsOrion Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 10:14:00 -
[875] - Quote
Gefel wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Would it be possible for CCP to update the dev blog with this information? Right now the blog still conflicts with this statement update. Players are making training choices in preparation for these changes, that are resulting in a week of wasted SP cycles... Thanks! Yeah where's my SP dude?!
|
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
381
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 20:47:00 -
[876] - Quote
Why did this thread get un-stickied? It's still relevant to the upcoming expansion.
CCP also hasn't responded to many of the concerns, so I'm going to re-iterate one of my own:
It's obvious that by making T2 sentries do the same damage as T1, CCP is trying to make drones more like turrets, where the only advantage in DPS (all other factors being equal) that T2 guns get over T1 is in the specialization skill, for a maximum of a 10% increase. T2 sentries now have a maximum 10% increase in damage over T1, after several months of training for it.
However, this change completely neglects one of the most important benefits of T2 guns: T2 ammo. T2 ammo gives a significant increase over T1 ammo in some specific stat (usually either range, dps, or tracking). With drones, there's no such thing as ammo. Currently, the "T2 ammo" benefit is rolled into having the T2 drone, so a 30% or whatever increase in DPS over the T1 drones makes perfect sense. |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
725
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 13:14:00 -
[877] - Quote
Jebediah Phoenix wrote:Right, so I've just wasted a week training combat drone operation to level V when I could've trained scout drone operation, a skill I'll eventually train to level 5 anyway, for the exact same benefit in half the time? Thanks for making the original dev post clear and wasting the past week on my training queue o/
This, And yet Tilapia spent so many posts trying to tell us how there was no waste of time.
I saw this change too late... when you set a skill to train for a week, and then only get ot use 4" more DPS for a few weeks before it becomes irrelevant, when another skill could have been trained, is a massive loss.
Some people have apparently never heard of opporotunity cost |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
134
|
Posted - 2014.05.01 14:32:00 -
[878] - Quote
Gefel wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Would it be possible for CCP to update the dev blog with this information? Right now the blog still conflicts with this statement update. Players are making training choices in preparation for these changes, that are resulting in a week of wasted SP cycles... Thanks!
Not empty quoting |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2318
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 19:46:00 -
[879] - Quote
Brizzi wrote:What About mining drones ?
If 'Drone Interfacing' is cut down to 10%/lvl, then the mining drones lose 50% in output, because they also have bonus in 'Drone Interfacing'
Mining drones...
They have them in the game?
I trained quite a lot of drones skills some time ago, so I am used to adapting to the 'latest' drone tweaks and being ready for the next lot of drone tweaks.
It would be nice if CCP did some work on drones then just left the darned things alone for a while.
Onward, ever onward. This is not a signature. |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 17:28:00 -
[880] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote:Why did this thread get un-stickied? It's still relevant to the upcoming expansion.
CCP also hasn't responded to many of the concerns, so I'm going to re-iterate one of my own:
It's obvious that by making T2 sentries do the same damage as T1, CCP is trying to make drones more like turrets, where the only advantage in DPS (all other factors being equal) that T2 guns get over T1 is in the specialization skill, for a maximum of a 10% increase. T2 sentries now have a maximum 10% increase in damage over T1, after several months of training for it.
However, this change completely neglects one of the most important benefits of T2 guns: T2 ammo. T2 ammo gives a significant increase over T1 ammo in some specific stat (usually either range, dps, or tracking). With drones, there's no such thing as ammo. Currently, the "T2 ammo" benefit is rolled into having the T2 drone, so a 30% or whatever increase in DPS over the T1 drones makes perfect sense.
This is a good point.
If we're finally acknowledging drones as a primary weapon system, the relative power should include the nature of T2 ammo bonuses as well. (Would also be interesting to make drones scriptable for speed, tracking or dps) |
|
Coyote Laughing
19
|
Posted - 2014.05.04 18:24:00 -
[881] - Quote
DarthMopp wrote:[quote=Promiscuous Female] Hey, stop it, i am married...noones calling me treasure except for my wife, honey.
The stories I could tell you about married people . . . but I won't.
In any case, the local chat in the trade hubs always seems to find a new disgusting (and entertaining) low every time I'm doing my shopping. l8r \o/ |
Drake Antharos
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 13:19:00 -
[882] - Quote
Will this drone overhaul be in Kronos? If not, do we have at least a known month? |
I Have 18Accounts
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 13:30:00 -
[883] - Quote
Here is another post bitching about how you've wasted my training time, and how I'll probably be bitter about it for months on end if you don't fix your error.
Remove Combat Drone V from the equation all together and refund us the SP. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
661
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 16:41:00 -
[884] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Xe'Cara'eos wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Could somebody work out what the 20 days for 2% additional damage from Gallente Drone Specialization 4 to 5 will add up to for Gardes.
I think all specialization skills should be worth more the higher you train. So for Drone Specialization as you train the skill to 5, the benefit increases accordingly. As it is now lvl 1 takes 24 mins and gives 2% bonus, lvl 5 takes 20 days but still only adds an additional 2%.
Drone specializations could work like - Level 1, unlocks the T2 drone (light, medium, heavy and sentry) Level 2, gives a 2% damage increase Level 3, adds and additional 3% damage Level 4, adds 5% damage Level 5, doubles the 5% from level 4, to end up with a total of 10% damage increase at lvl 5 as it is now but the 20 days training gives the most benefit.
Unlocks for T2 drones would need pre-requisites of lvl 5 in class. So to use T2 heavy drones you would need Heavy Drone Operation 5 and Specialization 1. T2 sentry drones would require, Sentry Drone Operation 5 and specialization 1.
This would actually reduce training times to get T2 drones (a little bit) but also give specializing to 5 more of an incentive for maximum damage. the unlocks will now be as you have described..... however - the whole of EVE works on a diminishing returns scheme, so specialisations are not going to change - because they are SPECIALISATION. If you specialise in using gallente drones - it very likely becomes worth it to train gallente drone spec V because the 2% increase is worth the time sink, personally - not worth it for me, so I'll train up drone specs to III, maybe IV until I start training all sorts of specialisations to V And there in lies my issue. Right now I have maxed sentry drone skills for all 4 factions. Post patch I will have less than perfect skills for Gardes and Bouncers due to drone specializations only being at 4 and even worse for Wardens and Curators which both specializations are at 2 and 3 respectively. This equates to an additional 80+ days of training to get 'back' to where I am currently. I rarely use heavy drones and don't see this changing post update, so this change significantly marrs my ability to use both my Ishtar and more so with the Super Drone creation my Rattlesnake. Oh and for those who would say- Just train them up, I already have over 7 mil SP in drones and don't feel I should LOSE the benefit from what I already have trained because CCP wants to change things.
So you feel you should have max-skilled sentries without having to train the max skills?
GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
Mirkali Maricadie
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 19:43:00 -
[885] - Quote
I have a question for the CCP Devs concerning the skill split, as I'm currently advising our young Newbees on training before the Summer Expansion.
Combat Drone Operation requires Drones III trained, while Scout Drone Operation requires Drones II trained. You've already said that, during the split, you'll give the person the same levels in Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as their highest level. But will it check for pre-reqs? If the person in question has Drones II trained, but has Scout Drone Operation trained to V, might the skill split fail to give them Medium Drone Operation at Level V due to a missing pre-req (assuming Medium Drone Operation will inherit the Drones III pre-req from Combat Drone Operation)?
Or will the skill split even take pre-reqs into account at all?
Thanks!
(I'm just currently advising them to train Drones to III, but I just want to make sure on the offchance that I get some random Newbee confused about this) |
Raely Reborn
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 03:36:00 -
[886] - Quote
Will drone rigs like tracking, durability, and speed affect fighter/fighter bombers?
Will you be adding a drone implant category?
Any plans to edit the existing rig or add new rig(s) to provide damage increases for each class of drone (not just sentry)?
o7 |
Atrium Akvidus
Iris Covenant The Gorgon Empire
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 10:52:00 -
[887] - Quote
Fighter Bombers will need Drone Interfacing 5 and two Tech Two Drone Damage Amplifiers to slightly surpass their current damage rates
Doesnt it mean a huge nerf for armor supercarriers, which will have to take a big impact on their tank to fit Drone Damage amps to reach the DPS they have atm? |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
275
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 11:15:00 -
[888] - Quote
Are the stats for the Gecko fixed, or will it be receiving a damage/speed boost in line with other heavies when these changes come out? |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
202
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 11:19:00 -
[889] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Xe'Cara'eos wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Could somebody work out what the 20 days for 2% additional damage from Gallente Drone Specialization 4 to 5 will add up to for Gardes.
I think all specialization skills should be worth more the higher you train. So for Drone Specialization as you train the skill to 5, the benefit increases accordingly. As it is now lvl 1 takes 24 mins and gives 2% bonus, lvl 5 takes 20 days but still only adds an additional 2%.
Drone specializations could work like - Level 1, unlocks the T2 drone (light, medium, heavy and sentry) Level 2, gives a 2% damage increase Level 3, adds and additional 3% damage Level 4, adds 5% damage Level 5, doubles the 5% from level 4, to end up with a total of 10% damage increase at lvl 5 as it is now but the 20 days training gives the most benefit.
Unlocks for T2 drones would need pre-requisites of lvl 5 in class. So to use T2 heavy drones you would need Heavy Drone Operation 5 and Specialization 1. T2 sentry drones would require, Sentry Drone Operation 5 and specialization 1.
This would actually reduce training times to get T2 drones (a little bit) but also give specializing to 5 more of an incentive for maximum damage. the unlocks will now be as you have described..... however - the whole of EVE works on a diminishing returns scheme, so specialisations are not going to change - because they are SPECIALISATION. If you specialise in using gallente drones - it very likely becomes worth it to train gallente drone spec V because the 2% increase is worth the time sink, personally - not worth it for me, so I'll train up drone specs to III, maybe IV until I start training all sorts of specialisations to V And there in lies my issue. Right now I have maxed sentry drone skills for all 4 factions. Post patch I will have less than perfect skills for Gardes and Bouncers due to drone specializations only being at 4 and even worse for Wardens and Curators which both specializations are at 2 and 3 respectively. This equates to an additional 80+ days of training to get 'back' to where I am currently. I rarely use heavy drones and don't see this changing post update, so this change significantly marrs my ability to use both my Ishtar and more so with the Super Drone creation my Rattlesnake. Oh and for those who would say- Just train them up, I already have over 7 mil SP in drones and don't feel I should LOSE the benefit from what I already have trained because CCP wants to change things. So you feel you should have max-skilled sentries without having to train the max skills? Well as I currently have max skills for the drones I use (Sentries) and the way I use them - YES Why should I lose Dps and face 80 days additional training because CCP wants to change the skill requirements, just to get back to what i have now. |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Cascade Imminent
84
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 15:53:00 -
[890] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: Well as I currently have max skills for the drones I use (Sentries) and the way I use them - YES Why should I lose Dps and face 80 days additional training because CCP wants to change the skill requirements, just to get back to what i have now.
this after the changes my sentries should be doing just as much damage as they do now without me doing anything since I trained for them to do so how would you feel if they added another 30day skill to use the t2 guns of your choice to the level you have them now Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
|
|
Marzuq
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
36
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 06:03:00 -
[891] - Quote
I trained for Sentry drones and I can use t2 sentries.
I have not trained Amarr and Caldari Spec because they are mostly useless and I don't need them for sentries.
What happened to: "If you can use it then, you can use it now."
I don't care how long or short it will take to train to use them again.
If I trained to be able to use them now I should damn well be able to use them when the patch comes.
What you're doing is not going to fix the drone balance problem, you have two races of drones the Gallente and Minmatar which are specialized drones for Damage and Speed.
Amarr and Caldari drones are never used because they are just painly garbage. They have no real strengths to compensate for the weaknesses.
Trying to make them in-between jack-of-trades-master-of-none will not not encourage players to use them.
Drones are the only weapon system in the game that can be permanently destroyed until you get replacements, you can't do that to any other weapon system in the game. Of course they better have some real advantage over regular weapon system to compensate for the fact that they can be destroyed or lost.
Drones have to use million and million of SP to be great, but what do we have to show for it? A weapon system that is really only considered secondary and less than gunnery and missile system that take less sp and investment. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 05:55:00 -
[892] - Quote
It has never been if you can use it now you can use it then.. CCP have increased requirements for modules several times now.
The line has always been if you can FLY it now you can FLY it then..
Also, it's ~15min of training total for you to keep using your Sentries as you are.. so suck it up princess. If they made it so you needed to spec skill at V, then you'd have an argument.. 1 is nothing. |
Au' Tena
University of Caille Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 07:53:00 -
[893] - Quote
as a gallente pilot i would be more interrested in a mid slot damage amplifier then a low slot omni tracking enhancer, to be honest. low slot are always filled (sticking to t2 maximum). |
Moor Deybe
Render Unto Caesar
27
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 12:19:00 -
[894] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:It has never been if you can use it now you can use it then.. CCP have increased requirements for modules several times now.
The line has always been if you can FLY it now you can FLY it then..
Also, it's ~15min of training total for you to keep using your Sentries as you are.. so suck it up princess. If they made it so you needed to spec skill at V, then you'd have an argument.. 1 is nothing. While you are correct that training the Racial Drone Specialization skills to I will allow people to still use T2 Sentries, the complaint that people quite rightly raise is that to get back their previous effectiveness i.e. DPS, it will almost certainly mean getting those skills to IV if not V.
I say almost certainly, because I don't know and CCP haven't specifically said. What they have said is said is that Curators and Wardens will give a bit more damage and Bouncers and Gardes will have a bit less, with MAX SKILLS trained.
So if it turns out to require those Racial Drone Specializations training to V at 20 days each. to get the same DPS, then I think people have a valid complaint.
Would a PVPer be happy to train for 80 days to get the 20km range back on their Warp Disruptor? Would a Trader be happy to train for 80 days to be able to get their Broker and Transaction taxes back down to where they were previously?
|
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
198
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 17:19:00 -
[895] - Quote
Kadar Yassavi wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Maybe you should reimburse the skill points of the skill that won't be used for the convertion. For example if I have Scout Drone Operation to V and Combat Drone Operation to IV, the new skills will be adjusted to my Scout Drone Operation skill level and the skillpoints of my Combat Drone Operation skill will go to the allocatable skillpoint pool. And if we have both at V currently of course you should reimburse the skillpoints of the higher ranked Combat Drone Operations (of course! :D). That way it won't feel like you've wasted skill time in the past if you maxed both skills. Hmm, so players who have trained up combat drone operation and light combat drone operation will now be equal to someone who has only light combat drone operation to V. As someone with both skills at V this sucks. Perhaps reimburse the SP in the one which is not used in the conversion as suggested in the post above.
Also, so someone who had trained combat drone operation to V to unlock the drone link augmentor will now no longer be able to use it seeing as it will be tied to a different skill.
To be honest the first set of changes were much clearer and made more sense Fozzie. |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 18:53:00 -
[896] - Quote
To everyone complaining their sentry DPS will be a bit lower post-patch, boo hoo.
Your absolute damage doesn't matter. Damage will come and go as the developers tune based on changes to meta. Unlike Blizzard who has tried to keep almost perfectly even power between their races, CCP has explicitly stated they will alter balance over time to keep the meta in flux and move in in a direction they like. Relative weapon system power will continually change. |
Opa God
Northwest Industrial Initiative
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.08 22:17:00 -
[897] - Quote
More than one month since the last dev post in this thread. No answers on the questions that have arisen since then. On top of that this thread has gone unstickied.
The release date of the expansion is getting closer, too. Soon there won't be enough time to train the skills needed.
Will it be enough to have -Scout Drone Operation 5 -Combat Drone Operation not injected to receive the new skills? |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 05:17:00 -
[898] - Quote
I'm sorry.. responding over how to get free SP from a lvl1 or 2 skill is just insulting. It take a week to train, suck it up. |
Bombshell Kitten
Nexus Fleet Inc. Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 08:23:00 -
[899] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:If you trained in real life every week night for a year to qualify for a payrise and then the boss a few weeks after you get your payrise decides to give it to everyone regardless of training you will be dissed. Rightly so because you did lose something, all your evenings for a year. GǪand for that entire year, you got paid for those evenings.
Tippia, you keep on making the point in line with "it was worth your time while you had it"... Are you suggesting that skills in the game have a time period associated with their worth and they might or might not become wothless after a certain time which CCP will choose ? So consider any skill as being worth training until it's removed in any random subsequent patch with no refunds. In that case it would be nice to either let people know when a skill could be removed and since that's not practically possible to see into future, it's best to refund the points.
To convey what I said above in terms of the example being quoted, if the manager tells this guy that everyone will be given a payraise regardless of their skill level after a certain time T, then this information would have influenced this person's decision wether to spend all these evenings or not. |
Opa God
Northwest Industrial Initiative
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 09:11:00 -
[900] - Quote
I don't understand you. I was just asking a question. I don't have the intention to insult anyone. To me a week is a long time and i have the fear of doing it wrong and the fear that CCP has abandoned this thread. My characters belong to the fastest training chars in eve. I don't want this to change by a little mistake.
To explain it another way: CCP Fozzie told us how to do it. I am asking if doing it like that is realy right |
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
203
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 09:30:00 -
[901] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:It has never been if you can use it now you can use it then.. CCP have increased requirements for modules several times now.
The line has always been if you can FLY it now you can FLY it then..
Also, it's ~15min of training total for you to keep using your Sentries as you are.. so suck it up princess. If they made it so you needed to spec skill at V, then you'd have an argument.. 1 is nothing. Sorry - Your wrong oh so very wrong - it won't be a simple 15 mins to keep using them as now - It is over 20 days to get back to where they are now. Specialization 1 gives 2% bonus, you will need to train to lvl 5 to get 100% Dps from Sentries. Having trained Sentry Drones level 5 currently gives you 100% Dps, so unless Specialization is simply adding to the current Dps you get from Sentries - It is additional training and previously maxed skills will have lost value. |
Skarlock Tremillion
Angry Rampant Space Gerbils
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 11:08:00 -
[902] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:Are the stats for the Gecko fixed, or will it be receiving a damage/speed boost in line with other heavies when these changes come out?
After looking at the Gecko stats and seeing the way they play my feeling is that these drones are currently set for the post summer change which is why they seem a little OP as is. If you imagine them after the changes then they fall much more in-line with other heavy drones with the DPS and speed becoming normalised. It would be interesting to get official feedback about them but I would put my 2 ISK on them already having the stats ready for the summer patch. |
Sael Va'Tauri
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:28:00 -
[903] - Quote
Instead of just making the augmented drones the same as fully skilled T2 drones, has anyone considered making them do less damage than a T2 drone, but be effected by both racial skills?
For example, base an augmented hobgoblin could do 12% less damage than a T2 hobgoblin, but be effected by both Gallenete and Caldari Drone Spec skills, so at level 4 in both specs the augmented drone would deal ~4% damage more than a T2 hobgoblin. If you went nuts training, you could even top out at ~8% more damage than a normal T2 hobgoblin. |
Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
565
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:57:00 -
[904] - Quote
I realize I'm coming in rather late, but never not post.
As originally envisioned, the conversion of SDO/CDO into the light/medium drone skills made sense. Apparently it was later decided that all three skills would be derived from "SDO or CDO, whichever was higher". The problem here is that in its current form, CDO is support skill for SDO for which there is no reason to ever train it higher.
What this means is that despite the wording, what is effectively happening is that Combat drone operation is being deleted, with three new skills being added which carry over the value of your Scout Drone Operation skill. While the other way around is possible, it's practically nonexistent as training them like that makes no sense.
Consider someone with only SDO5, they are losing that skill in exchange for three level 5 skills.
Next consider someone with only CDO5, they are spending twice the SP to get those same three level 5 skills. This one doesn't actually happen because nobody trains CDO5 without already having SDO5.
Now consider someone with SDO5 _and_ CDO5, they have spent three times the training time as the SDO5 pilot and will receive the same final SP amount from it.
This change should be considered for what it is, the removal of CDO and splitting of SDO into three separate skills with the SP from CDO being refunded as unallocated SP. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 04:32:00 -
[905] - Quote
No one is getting any SP over it. I'll eat my eyepiece if we do lol
And as for the "It's no longer useful therefore we should get SP back.." line from a page back.. I didn't get the MONTH and change I spent training into an Orca back when they cut it's training time back by a third.. Cap pilots didn't get the time back from training BS V when the requirements changed to BS IV..
You trained a skill cause you needed it, then you benefited from it. So you're not getting SP back now that things change. Doing that would be as bad as after every change CCP goes back and says "Well your ship can't do THAT dps anymore, so we are undoing this kill, and that one, and giving these guys back their space.."
You benefited from it, be happy, deal with the changes. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 07:44:00 -
[906] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:No one is getting any SP over it. I'll eat my eyepiece if we do lol
And as for the "It's no longer useful therefore we should get SP back.." line from a page back.. I didn't get the MONTH and change I spent training into an Orca back when they cut it's training time back by a third.. Cap pilots didn't get the time back from training BS V when the requirements changed to BS IV..
You trained a skill cause you needed it, then you benefited from it. So you're not getting SP back now that things change. Doing that would be as bad as after every change CCP goes back and says "Well your ship can't do THAT dps anymore, so we are undoing this kill, and that one, and giving these guys back their space.."
You benefited from it, be happy, deal with the changes.
I don't see how changing requirements for an item is the same as entirely removing a skill. |
Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
566
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 15:00:00 -
[907] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:No one is getting any SP over it. I'll eat my eyepiece if we do lol
And as for the "It's no longer useful therefore we should get SP back.." line from a page back.. I didn't get the MONTH and change I spent training into an Orca back when they cut it's training time back by a third.. Cap pilots didn't get the time back from training BS V when the requirements changed to BS IV.
When the training time for the orca was cut, and you might have no longer personally needed those skills, they were still in the game and still conferred bonuses for things you could have done. Capital pilots had battleship 5 before, they had battleship 5 after, and battleship 5 still did mattered when flying battleships.
This change is different, if you have SDO5 and CDO5 today, after the patch it's exactly the same result as if you had SDO5/CD00, 512k sp less.
|
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
5
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 21:52:00 -
[908] - Quote
Innominate wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:No one is getting any SP over it. I'll eat my eyepiece if we do lol
And as for the "It's no longer useful therefore we should get SP back.." line from a page back.. I didn't get the MONTH and change I spent training into an Orca back when they cut it's training time back by a third.. Cap pilots didn't get the time back from training BS V when the requirements changed to BS IV.
When the training time for the orca was cut, and you might have no longer personally needed those skills, they were still in the game and still conferred bonuses for things you could have done. Capital pilots had battleship 5 before, they had battleship 5 after, and battleship 5 still did matter when flying battleships. This change is different, if you have SDO5 and CDO5 today, after the patch it's exactly the same result as if you had SDO5/CD00, 512k sp less.
I didn't get skill points back for Diplomatic relations when they removed what the skill does and now gives a totally different bonus. |
stoicfaux
4787
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 14:54:00 -
[909] - Quote
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tYl-QUgm_JqySf3e7o7CkbfYYcM3rQcE6RexpXVtkS0/edit?usp=sharing
Google docs spreadsheet for summer drones (using the spreadsheet from the blog as a base.) It includes skills and lets you add modules/rig effects while accounting for stacking penalties. Click the tabs for a preview of a Domi, Rattlesnake, and Gila. You will need to make a copy if you want to play with it (either download or copy it to your googledrive.)
You can make up your own module/effects numbers for hypothetical faction drone modules and/or new drone modules such as the low slot TE for drones.
Does not include fighters and bombers.
Apologies if someone has already beaten me to it or if the data has otherwise been made available.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
771
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 16:38:00 -
[910] - Quote
Raely Reborn wrote:Will drone rigs like tracking, durability, and speed affect fighter/fighter bombers?
Will you be adding a drone implant category?
Any plans to edit the existing rig or add new rig(s) to provide damage increases for each class of drone (not just sentry)?
o7
From my reading of the dev blog:
Yes, yes, yes, yes(yes and no)*
No
No
*IIRC fighter bomber damage is calculated like missile damage so tracking won't affect it. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
|
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
61
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 18:20:00 -
[911] - Quote
No new Drone Rigs or Implants this release.. I asked earlier and they said they are considering for future releases, but don't want to change it all at once. aka don't hold your breath. |
Dehval
Risk Breakers Fidelas Constans
45
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 01:54:00 -
[912] - Quote
With the changes to Drone Interfacing will Mining Drones be getting their yield increased to compensate? Not really important because they are hardly used as is, but it would be nice for clarification.
Haven't had the time to read the thread to see if this was answered. |
Angelina Duvolle
Homeworld Technologies
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 02:44:00 -
[913] - Quote
Quote:is important for current Supercarrier pilots to be prepared for the change in Fighter Bomber volume. Any Supercarrier drone bay that is full of Fighter Bombers before the patch will be overloaded after downtime. In this case the drones will automatically move to the SupercarrierGÇÖs cargo bay where they will prevent the ship from warping or jumping until they have been jettisoned or otherwise removed.
Unsub'd pilots returning to the game are gonna have a pretty big suprise when they can't WARP OR JUMP on re-subbing/logging back in.
Might want to find an alternative to that. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
771
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 08:53:00 -
[914] - Quote
I'm struggling to imagine a world where CCP would want to design changes to the benefit of people who don't pay them regularly, rather than people who do.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
208
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 09:00:00 -
[915] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote: I'm struggling to imagine a world where CCP would want to design changes to the benefit of people who don't pay them regularly, rather than people who do. With the current push of incentives to get people to seek out ex players and get them to resub.. I can. My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
Malcanis
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
15458
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 09:12:00 -
[916] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote: I'm struggling to imagine a world where CCP would want to design changes to the benefit of people who don't pay them regularly, rather than people who do.
Yeah it's almost is if there's some divergence between some wild sweeping generalisations that have ben made which you have seized on as being convenient, and the actual facts which CCP are in a position to know for certain. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
Malcanis
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
15458
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 09:13:00 -
[917] - Quote
Hahaha just kidding of course. Wild sweeping generalisations are always correct. What kind of crazy upside down world would this be if they weren't? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
773
|
Posted - 2014.05.12 12:21:00 -
[918] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote: I'm struggling to imagine a world where CCP would want to design changes to the benefit of people who don't pay them regularly, rather than people who do. Yeah it's almost is if there's some divergence between some wild sweeping generalisations that have ben made which you have seized on as being convenient, and the actual facts which CCP are in a position to know for certain.
If I were making a wild sweeping generalisation then I would accept your point, but I am not since I carefully used the regularly.
A mothership pilot account being resubbed so that it can take part in a few battles before being mothballed again does not constitute a regular subscription.
That would be an irregular subscription, right?
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9798
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 10:03:00 -
[919] - Quote
Bump so people are aware they need to train SDO 5 and not CDO 5. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Jedediah Arndtz
Warner Bros.
22
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 10:47:00 -
[920] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
So you're saying the people who already had SDO to 5, and trained CDO 5 because of the devblog are SOL? Wow, thanks CCP, yet another way to **** the players. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9822
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:42:00 -
[921] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Innominate wrote:Sniper Smith wrote:No one is getting any SP over it. I'll eat my eyepiece if we do lol
And as for the "It's no longer useful therefore we should get SP back.." line from a page back.. I didn't get the MONTH and change I spent training into an Orca back when they cut it's training time back by a third.. Cap pilots didn't get the time back from training BS V when the requirements changed to BS IV.
When the training time for the orca was cut, and you might have no longer personally needed those skills, they were still in the game and still conferred bonuses for things you could have done. Capital pilots had battleship 5 before, they had battleship 5 after, and battleship 5 still did matter when flying battleships. This change is different, if you have SDO5 and CDO5 today, after the patch it's exactly the same result as if you had SDO5/CD00, 512k sp less. I didn't get skill points back for Diplomatic relations when they removed what the skill does and now gives a totally different bonus. You should have. In my opinion you could and should still be reimbursed for that skill. If you still want it you can put the SP back into it. If not, put it somewhere else. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Monthan
Omega Bureau
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 18:58:00 -
[922] - Quote
Jedediah Arndtz wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. So you're saying the people who already had SDO to 5, and trained CDO 5 because of the devblog are SOL? Wow, thanks CCP, yet another way to **** the players.
+1
CCP must compensante current sentry drone t2 players, with unallocated SP... |
Xavbian Deepleaf
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 23:47:00 -
[923] - Quote
Looking at current sisi changes something is wrong ?
Tranquility sshot: http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/71637620140514234153.png Singularity sshot: http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/58697720140514233653.png
So, i'm missing 5 levels in medium drones with Kronos update? wtf? |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 03:24:00 -
[924] - Quote
Monthan wrote:CCP must compensante current sentry drone t2 players, with unallocated SP... No.
I've never got free SP each time CCP as increased the requirements for a module.. Neither should you.
Fly it now Fly it then only applies to Ships. In all other cases, you're on your own, and are just gonna have to suck it up and spend the day training the skills to get back where you are now :p
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:25:00 -
[925] - Quote
The SENSIBLE option would have been:
Avionics = SDO current level LDO = SDO current level
MDO = CDO current level
No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.
This is a serious suggestion of a better way to make this work without the need for reimbursement. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
217
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 11:17:00 -
[926] - Quote
After experiencing Drone Upgrades Affecting the performance of Fighters. I'd like to say - Impressed, nice buff.
I'd also be curious to see if a skill to increase Drone Orbit Speed of Heavy Drones, Fighters and Fighter Bombers might be a possibility ?
It would need to be a high ranked skill - 12 or 14 possibly - Increase Drone Orbit Speed by 2% per level.
My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
Schlampa
Kids with Catalysts Clockwork Pineapple
5
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 19:28:00 -
[927] - Quote
Jedediah Arndtz wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. So you're saying the people who already had SDO to 5, and trained CDO 5 because of the devblog are SOL?
It would be nice to have some further clarification for this. One obscure dev post is contradicting the official announcment and then never commented on again.
|
Erehwon Rorschach
Justified Chaos
107
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 10:02:00 -
[928] - Quote
When can we expect more information on the new faction drone modules?
Has there been any hints on this.
Because your mum just couldn't say no. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
217
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 17:09:00 -
[929] - Quote
I tested Garde II out today.
On sisi with the same skills i do 140 dps less than currently on TQ.
So sentry drones are getting nerfed.
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
905
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 21:51:00 -
[930] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:The SENSIBLE option would have been:
Avionics = SDO current level LDO = SDO current level
MDO = CDO current level
No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.
This is a serious suggestion of a better way to make this work without the need for reimbursement.
I thought that at first too, but it doesn't work.
If I have SDO 5 and CDO 0 - I can use Lights and Mediums and train their T2 Variants - I have +25KM Control Range - I do not have any damage bonus.
Post Change - I can use Lights and train their T2 Variants - I can no longer use mediums or their T2 Variants - I have 25KM Control Range - I have a 25% Damage Bonus to my Light Drones
The only realistic and simplistic way to do it is:
Let SDO count for everything. Scrap CDO and refund the SP on it.
Otherwise you end up with numerous variants of people being gifted various different benefits without actually training the skills for them.
SDO 5/CDO 0 = +25% Damage after change CDO 5/SDO 0 = +25KM Drone Range = +Access to T2 Training = + Skill for Lights/Meds @ 5.
Because of the way the skills are currently it is impossible to split them without giving people a benefit in one category or the other, and this is an unfair approach to adjustment because people with both trained are going to lose an advantage that they trained to get.
So CCP should just give everyone their CDO SP back and call it a day. Easy peasy lemon squeasy.
|
|
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 01:32:00 -
[931] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:The SENSIBLE option would have been:
Avionics = SDO current level LDO = SDO current level
MDO = CDO current level
No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.
This is a serious suggestion of a better way to make this work without the need for reimbursement.
Hmm. So if MDO = CDO then the time I spent training CDO would still give an advantage.
Edit: just saw Mario's post above me. Darn. |
Moor Deybe
Render Unto Caesar
29
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 10:40:00 -
[932] - Quote
I was on Singularity a few hours ago looking at exactly the same thing as the new drone skills, range and damage stats appear to be released there.
My Light Drone Operation was at Level 5 as expected, but the Medium Drone Operation skill was untrained, but with the green tick indicating that I was capable of training that skill. The Medium Drone operation skillbook wasn't available on the market to buy, with the usual option to search contracts offered.
I'm assuming that this is all a "work in progress", otherwise yes, something is very wrong and the reallocation of skill points has failed.
|
stoicfaux
4828
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 11:25:00 -
[933] - Quote
Erehwon Rorschach wrote:When can we expect more information on the new faction drone modules?
Has there been any hints on this.
So far on Sisi: DDAs : 25.8% (Amarr Navy, Federation Navy, Dread Guristas, Sentient Drone) Drone Nav: 32% (Federation Navy, Sentient Drone) Omni TE (low slot): 10% / 20% / 10% for optimal/falloff/tracking (Amarr Navy, Dread Guristas, Sentient) Omni Link (med slot): 8% / 16% / 17.5% for optimal/falloff/tracking (Fed Navy, Sentient)
How to get onto Sisi test server and get a preview and maybe even actually help test. Also test forum.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
218
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 11:25:00 -
[934] - Quote
Moor Deybe wrote:I was on Singularity a few hours ago looking at exactly the same thing as the new drone skills, range and damage stats appear to be released there. My Light Drone Operation was at Level 5 as expected, but the Medium Drone Operation skill was untrained, but with the green tick indicating that I was capable of training that skill. The Medium Drone operation skillbook wasn't available on the market to buy, with the usual option to search contracts offered. I'm assuming that this is all a "work in progress", otherwise yes, something is very wrong and the reallocation of skill points has failed. As mentioned by a Dev (CCP Rise I think) in another thread (not going looking for it but feel free, I think it was the Faction Battleship thread) The script for drones has not been run on Sisi but will be run on TQ when the time comes. If you have Scout Drone Operation 5 now, you will have Lights Drones 5 + Medium Drones 5 when the update goes live.
As the current skill "Combat Drone Operation" Is not currently a prerequisite for the use of Medium or Light Drones but is simply a DPS skill, this description in the Dev blog needs to be edited.
Quote: We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation. This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill. During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to. As per CCP Rise ( I think, can't find the post) He confirmed, the highest level in Scout Drone Operation OR Combat Drone Operation will be used for the new skills of - Light Drone Operation & Medium Drone Operation. My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 14:46:00 -
[935] - Quote
I posted this in another thread, but wanted to post it here as well. Would something like this work?
As it stands now, after the patch an SDO 5 will be equal to an SDO5 + CDO5 person. In this respect CDO5 isn't needed. Instead of disregarding CDO5 in this fashion, create 2 new skill call Advanced Light Drone Operation and Advanced Medium Drone Operation.
Reduce the amount of damage that LDO and MDO do by 2.5% and give ALDO and AMDO that 2.5% bonus.
An SDO 5 player is still able to fly what he could before, MDO5 players get no skill points but get to keep their advantage. I'll admit I don't have the specifics worked out, but it's an idea. |
Mikey TwoGuns
Fail Force 5 Corrosive.
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 05:59:00 -
[936] - Quote
I might be confused here. And I hope I am.
I have Scout Drone Operation trained to 5. This was completed a couple years ago.
And I just got done training Combat Drone Operation 5 a few days ago. I did this under the impression that the two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation, would inherit only the same level as Combat Drone Operation as stated in the Dev Blog:
Quote:We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation.
Now, Fozzie is stating that inherited training for the two new skills will come from EITHER Combat Drone Operation or Scout Drone Operation, whichever is highest:
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
So does this mean that the time I spent training Combat Drone Operation 5--about 8 days--will be essentially wasted? If so, then I am being kicked squarely in the nuts.
Furthermore, I had advised all of my corp mates via mail to train Combat Drone Operation 5 after I read the Dev Blog. Many of them probably had Scout Drone Operation already trained to 5 as well. It may have been foolish to advise them to do it, but I assumed CCP wouldn't dare blindside their own players in regards to their SP.
Please, somebody throw me a bone here. Please tell me that I am interpreting Fozzie incorrectly here. If not, then I will demand a SP reimbursement for Combat Drone Operation. |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1455
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 10:11:00 -
[937] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote: You sir, are asking the real questions here!
It is the same, I'll demonstrate:
x=1.999...
Multiply by 10
10x=19.999...
Subtract x
9x=18
Divide by 9
x=2
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
219
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 13:13:00 -
[938] - Quote
Mikey TwoGuns wrote:I might be confused here. And I hope I am.
Please, somebody throw me a bone here. Please tell me that I am interpreting Fozzie incorrectly. If not, then I will demand a SP reimbursement for Combat Drone Operation. I could throw you a bone but it wouldn't be a tasty one. According to CCP Fozzie, THE BLOG IS WRONG, it has been from the start.
For reasons known only to themselves the blog has not to date been updated to show the correct information and the only acknowledgement of the change is an obscure 4 line post from the lead Dev on page 38 of a (so far) 47 page thread.
Many players who do not troll the forums looking for information would still be under the impression they will need COMBAT DRONE OPERATION 5 to get Light Drone Operation 5 & Medium Drone Operation 5 at the time of the patch. NB; I have spoken to a few newer players asking advice on which skill to train 1st...
8 days does not sound much when you say it quickly and the 512k SP is not that big a deal, although many (myself included) could have put it to far better use than training unnecessary skills. - - - - I wonder if updating the Official Blog to show the correct information would remove the need for the following quote, which refers to a post buried in another thread.
Quote:CCP Fozzie The skill upgrade script that will be run on TQ has not been run on SISI. The information in my post that Joe linked is indeed still accurate. My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
Mikey TwoGuns
Fail Force 5 Corrosive.
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:05:00 -
[939] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Mikey TwoGuns wrote:I might be confused here. And I hope I am.
Please, somebody throw me a bone here. Please tell me that I am interpreting Fozzie incorrectly. If not, then I will demand a SP reimbursement for Combat Drone Operation. I could throw you a bone but it wouldn't be a tasty one. According to CCP Fozzie, THE BLOG IS WRONG, it has been from the start. For reasons known only to themselves the blog has not to date been updated to show the correct information and the only acknowledgement of the change is an obscure 4 line post from the lead Dev on page 38 of a (so far) 47 page thread. Many players who do not troll the forums looking for information would still be under the impression they will need COMBAT DRONE OPERATION 5 to get Light Drone Operation 5 & Medium Drone Operation 5 at the time of the patch. NB; I have spoken to a few newer players asking advice on which skill to train 1st... 8 days does not sound much when you say it quickly and the 512k SP is not that big a deal, although many (myself included) could have put it to far better use than training unnecessary skills. - - - - I wonder if updating the Official Blog to show the correct information would remove the need for the following quote, which refers to a post buried in another thread. Quote:CCP Fozzie The skill upgrade script that will be run on TQ has not been run on SISI. The information in my post that Joe linked is indeed still accurate.
Thanks for the reply, Sgt Ocker.
Training a skill for 8 days just to see it wasted is a big deal, in my case. Especially because I advised many others in my corp to do so the same. So they will be getting kicked in the nuts as well, and I am largely responsible for it. This weighs quite heavily on me.
This ordeal appears to be a communication goof committed by Fozzie. His dev blog post, in regards to the implementation of Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation, is incorrect and very misleading. It caused me and many others to spend 8 days of training on a skill that did not have to be trained in order to acquire level 5 in the two new skills. After the patch is implemented, the 512K SP devoted to Combat Drone Operation will be gone with no persisting benefit. This is wasted SP. Wasted on account of a goofed official statement made by a CCP developer.
Fozzie, I understand that you made a communication mistake, and I can forgive you for that. But the onus is on you to ensure that those who trained up Combat Drone Operation in accordance to your statement in the dev blog are compensated for the SP that they unknowingly wasted. This would be a fair way to resolve this ordeal.
Afterthought: Alternatively, you could change the skill implementation plan altogether to something more sensible. Using the highest level of either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation seems to be a pretty sloppy way of doing it anyways. |
Trekan Kion
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:30:00 -
[940] - Quote
Based on the dev blog I trained SDO and CDO to lvl V on 4 toons in the last few weeks or so. I did not have the benefit of these skills over a long period but only decided to change my training plan based on that dev blog. It now indeed looks like I wasted 8-10 days training per toon as CDO is being removed and as it will not affect any skill transfers. Those toons are on the order of 10 to 13 million SP so it feels like a big waste. Reimbursement of those SP does seem in order. |
|
Draiv Solregard
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 22:56:00 -
[941] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
If I understand correctly Scout Drone Operation: Rank 1: Drone Control Range Bonus: 4d 21h to Level V Combat Drone Operation: Rank 2: Drone Damage Bonus: 9d 18h to Level V
Scout Drone Operation Level V = Light Drone Operation V & Medium Drone Operation V A skill with a bonus to control range changes into two skills with damage bonuses (Rank 1 = Rank 1 + Rank 2) In just over half the time as Combat Drone Operation V or Combat Drone Operation Level V = Light Drone Operation V & Medium Drone Operation V (Rank 2 = Rank 1 + Rank 2) A skill with a bonus to damage splits into two skills with damage bonuses
On Tranquility I have Scout Drone Operation V and Combat Drone Operation IV On Singularity I have Light Drone Operation IV and I couldn't find Medium Drone Operation
Even if Medium Drone Operation is not available shouldn't I still have gotten Light Drone Operation at V instead of IV? |
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords Codex Aevum
75
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 22:56:00 -
[942] - Quote
Nerfed Supercarriers? Are you guys mad`? With 2 Drone Damage Amplifier II + 0 DCUs the FighterBomber does the same dps.
With 3 FACTION Drone Damage Amplifiers + 5 DCUs + Nyx Rolebonus the Supercarrier will do Rofl-lmao-dps from hell.... Faction Omnis might help aswell. A super used to be capped at 25 theoretical drones. Now its 30. And you can always shield-tank a super if you get off your "all capitals need to be armor or I am confused" - attitude. |
I TheCount I
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 03:46:00 -
[943] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.
Okay, So I have trained both skills to V to get a head start (New Character) now you say that all i needed was Scout Drone Operation to V and not even needing Combat Drone Operation. That is just a slap in the face.
Scout Drone Operation V: 256,000 SP Combat Drone Operation V: 512,000 SP Total SP: 768,000 SP
Original Plan: Train Scout Drone Op V (for 5 drones, not even for Kronos) Train Combat Drone Op V ( get 2 skills for one)
Now what you are saying Train Scout Drone Op V (Get a free 512,000 SP) Seriously?
This Definately should be refunded in unallocated SP. . . or am I reading something wrong |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
220
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 04:46:00 -
[944] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:Nerfed Supercarriers? Are you guys mad`? With 2 Drone Damage Amplifier II + 0 DCUs the FighterBomber does the same dps.
With 3 FACTION Drone Damage Amplifiers + 5 DCUs + Nyx Rolebonus the Supercarrier will do Rofl-lmao-dps from hell.... Faction Omnis might help aswell. A super used to be capped at 25 theoretical drones. Now its 30. And you can always shield-tank a super if you get off your "all capitals need to be armor or I am confused" - attitude. Yes and everyone will want to fly 1 of the most expensive ships in the game with sub optimal tank, Right? Shield Supers fit for Shield, Armor Supers fit for Armor, that is where the best attributes are for each. You could theoretically, shield fit an Aeon, all the DDA's and lowslot Omnis you could fit would increase its Dps potential by a lot but I doubt it would last long in combat.
I think what we are more likely to see is, Shield Supers find more of a place in Capital Fleets. Not shield fit Armour Supers. My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
Mikey TwoGuns
Fail Force 5 Corrosive.
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 12:18:00 -
[945] - Quote
I TheCount I wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Okay, So I have trained both skills to V to get a head start (New Character) now you say that all i needed was Scout Drone Operation to V and not even needing Combat Drone Operation. That is just a slap in the face. Scout Drone Operation V: 256,000 SP Combat Drone Operation V: 512,000 SP Total SP: 768,000 SP Original Plan: Train Scout Drone Op V (for T2 drones, not even for Kronos) Train Combat Drone Op V ( get 2 skills for one) Now what you are saying Train Scout Drone Op V (Get a free 512,000 SP) Seriously? This Definately should be refunded in unallocated SP. . . or am I reading something wrong
You are reading it right. That is pretty much how it is. I had a hard time believing it too.
If I don't get the feedback from CCP that I want to hear in the next day or so, then I will ask our CSM representatives to take on the issue. |
Gabriel Dube
Notorious Legion
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 01:05:00 -
[946] - Quote
I TheCount I wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Okay, So I have trained both skills to V to get a head start (New Character) now you say that all i needed was Scout Drone Operation to V and not even needing Combat Drone Operation. That is just a slap in the face. Scout Drone Operation V: 256,000 SP Combat Drone Operation V: 512,000 SP Total SP: 768,000 SP Original Plan: Train Scout Drone Op V (for T2 drones, not even for Kronos) Train Combat Drone Op V ( get 2 skills for one) Now what you are saying Train Scout Drone Op V (Get a free 512,000 SP) Seriously? This Definately should be refunded in unallocated SP. . . or am I reading something wrong
I'm in the same boat as you, I went on to train CDO V as soon as I heard about the changes when I resubbed a month ago.
Then I heard about the subtle correction to how the skill split was to be implemented, and contemplated my wasted training time.
Then I realized that, while it might seem unjust to give a greater benefit to those who didn't bother trying to get CDO up to V than to those who did, nobody is really losing anything worthwhile compared to pre-change. You're just getting a smaller privilege than others. |
Mikey TwoGuns
Fail Force 5 Corrosive.
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 01:29:00 -
[947] - Quote
Gabriel Dube wrote:I'm in the same boat as you, I went on to train CDO V as soon as I heard about the changes when I resubbed a month ago.
Then I heard about the subtle correction to how the skill split was to be implemented, and contemplated my wasted training time.
Then I realized that, while it might seem unjust to give a greater benefit to those who didn't bother trying to get CDO up to V than to those who did, nobody is really losing anything worthwhile compared to pre-change. You're just getting a smaller privilege than others.
512,000 SP, roughly a week's worth, is quite worthwhile if you ask me. |
Erasmus Phoenix
Balls to the Walls No Response
99
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 02:13:00 -
[948] - Quote
So it has been drawn to my attention that fighter bombers use "fake missiles" - how will these be affected by omnidirectional tracking links and enhancers? Will they gain a benefit or not? similarly, will the Drone Sharpshooting skill affect fighter bombers?
They certainly don't have optimal range or tracking stats available to players. This is something that should be addressed for clarity. |
Sean Crees
Sean's Solo Incursion Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 09:18:00 -
[949] - Quote
I TheCount I wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.
As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.
The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2. Okay, So I have trained both skills to V to get a head start (New Character) now you say that all i needed was Scout Drone Operation to V and not even needing Combat Drone Operation. That is just a slap in the face. Scout Drone Operation V: 256,000 SP Combat Drone Operation V: 512,000 SP Total SP: 768,000 SP Original Plan: Train Scout Drone Op V (for T2 drones, not even for Kronos) Train Combat Drone Op V ( get 2 skills for one) Now what you are saying Train Scout Drone Op V (Get a free 512,000 SP) Seriously? This Definately should be refunded in unallocated SP. . . or am I reading something wrong
I read the dev blog, and immediately went and put Combat Drone Op 5 in the skill queue (was at level 3 i think previously, and i had no plans on leveling it anytime soon). Now after spending a week training it i find out i am basically just out 1 week of training because of CCP's oversight...
People with Combat Drone Op V should definately get a SP refund. We shouldn't have to pay for your mistakes.
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
224
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 10:03:00 -
[950] - Quote
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:So it has been drawn to my attention that fighter bombers use "fake missiles" - how will these be affected by omnidirectional tracking links and enhancers? Will they gain a benefit or not? similarly, will the Drone Sharpshooting skill affect fighter bombers?
They certainly don't have optimal range or tracking stats available to players. This is something that should be addressed for clarity.
EDIT: and while I remember...
Someone REALLY needs to address the Drone Link Augmentor situation. The logical thing is to have them moved to Drone Avionics (Like their faction version), but this hasn't happened yet on SiSi, what is going to be happening with their skill requirements? Sorry to tell you, this thread is no longer a sticky - usually a good indicator, Devs are no longer paying it much attention. As it has been the best part of 2 weeks since a Dev even acknowledged this thread, or any of the concerns (Incorrect information in official blog encouraging players to train redundant skills). I would not hold my breath for any official answer to your questions.
It seems players are becoming more like mushrooms every day. My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
|
Mikey TwoGuns
Fail Force 5 Corrosive.
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 23:17:00 -
[951] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: Sorry to tell you, this thread is no longer a sticky - usually a good indicator, Devs are no longer paying it much attention. As it has been the best part of 2 weeks since a Dev even acknowledged this thread, or any of the concerns (Incorrect information in official blog encouraging players to train redundant skills). I would not hold my breath for any official answer to your questions.
It seems players are becoming more like mushrooms every day.
You are probably right. And your last sentence made me think about something else.
Currently, only a fraction of the players who were blindsided by the incorrect information in the dev blog actually know they have been blindsided. A lot of players read and gossiped about the dev blog when it came out, but only a few know about Fozzie's actual implementation plan for the drone skills. People will eventually find out when Kronos is released, though.
How much noise will people generate when the truth about the drone skill changes dawns on them? I am genuinely curious about this.
At this point, I am not going to contact the CSM as mentioned previously. Instead, I will keep quiet and see how this plays out. |
Minmatar Citizen 953102
Luv Gun Grand Sky Wizards
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:48:00 -
[952] - Quote
Destriouth Hollow wrote:Nerfed Supercarriers? Are you guys mad`? With 2 Drone Damage Amplifier II + 0 DCUs the FighterBomber does the same dps.
With 3 FACTION Drone Damage Amplifiers + 5 DCUs + Nyx Rolebonus the Supercarrier will do Rofl-lmao-dps from hell.... Faction Omnis might help aswell. A super used to be capped at 25 theoretical drones. Now its 30. And you can always shield-tank a super if you get off your "all capitals need to be armor or I am confused" - attitude.
Finally someone as a bit of sense
|
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
395
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:59:00 -
[953] - Quote
Draiv Solregard wrote:
On Tranquility I have Scout Drone Operation V and Combat Drone Operation IV On Singularity I have Light Drone Operation IV and I couldn't find Medium Drone Operation
Even if Medium Drone Operation is not available shouldn't I still have gotten Light Drone Operation at V instead of IV?
No because as they mentioned elsewhere they haven't run the script on Sisi and don't plan to - they only plan to run it on TQ when the time comes. |
Rdubs
1st Steps Academy Fidelas Constans
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 21:47:00 -
[954] - Quote
Apologies if this has already been covered on this thread, but someone has reported that on Sisi the Wasp changes (and I imagine the other heavy drones as well) have been much different than shown on the original spreadsheet in the dev blog. Namely, their optimal range and signature resolution have both increased substantially. Currently the Wasp optimal range is 1000 meters and sig resolution 125. The person is reporting that on Sisi the drone is now showing a base optimal range of 4800 meters and a sig resolution of 400, bringing it in line with Sentry drones. The tracking has been increased as well but not nearly as substantially. I can see the argument that the increase in optimal will offset the increase in sig radius, but heavy drones are moving around a lot and I just have a feeling this is going to be a big net negative trying to deal with smaller stuff like rat frigs. Anyone remember seeing anything on this big change to optimal/sig resolution? |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
231
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 01:13:00 -
[955] - Quote
Rdubs wrote:Apologies if this has already been covered on this thread, but someone has reported that on Sisi the Wasp changes (and I imagine the other heavy drones as well) have been much different than shown on the original spreadsheet in the dev blog. Namely, their optimal range and signature resolution have both increased substantially. Currently the Wasp optimal range is 1000 meters and sig resolution 125. The person is reporting that on Sisi the drone is now showing a base optimal range of 4800 meters and a sig resolution of 400, bringing it in line with Sentry drones. The tracking has been increased as well but not nearly as substantially. I can see the argument that the increase in optimal will offset the increase in sig radius, but heavy drones are moving around a lot and I just have a feeling this is going to be a big net negative trying to deal with smaller stuff like rat frigs. Anyone remember seeing anything on this big change to optimal/sig resolution? They also got an increase (although slight) to Orbit Velocity, which will help a little with Npc frigs . The 50% increase to (mwd) Velocity will go a long way to countering the increased Sig and catching npc frigs, before they can do too much harm. Increased Ehp, increased Dps, I suppose the Sig Radius increase is the trade off, for what are substantial buffs overall.
Increased Optimal Range, does bring up another point I have been unable to find an answer for - Activation Proximity, my understanding of how it works, using T2 Heavy drones as the example - 4,000 m Activation Proximity. Drone MWD's to within Activation Proximity of a target (4,000 m) It then Drops to orbit speed, at which time it engages the target. Target is moving away from drone and increases range between them to 4,100m Wasp ll will have an optimal range of 4,800m and Activation Proximity of 4,000m
Does the Wasp ll continue to fire on the target once it is outside "Activation Proximity" (but still within range) or does it cease firing enter MWD mode to catchup again?
If in fact it is the latter, why do drones have optimal range and falloff that exceeds their range of engagement (4,000m) My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
Elmo Martoh
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 14:40:00 -
[956] - Quote
Based on what I've been reading the past week, I am very confused on what to train to best take advantage of the new skills.
I thought CDO was the way to go initially so I and training CDO to LV5right now. SDO is only L3 at the moment.
Now I am more confused than ever. |
Opa God
Northwest Industrial Initiative
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 16:55:00 -
[957] - Quote
I would train Scout Drone Operation 5 if i can get it faster. |
Elmo Martoh
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 17:39:00 -
[958] - Quote
Opa God wrote:I would train Scout Drone Operation 5 if i can get it faster. Thanks, I can get CDO with a few hours to spare before patch DT or SDO a few days before. |
Meandering Milieu
House Aratus Fatal Ascension
53
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 15:13:00 -
[959] - Quote
Looking at test server info from other people, with faction DDAs it is impossible to get the same damage you used to have with T2 DDAs on Gardes.
I understood the nerf to gardes a little bit, was ok with it. But the fact that even with faction damage mods, you can't even break even, let alone get a little bit of an upgrade, is depressing.
Basically the only ship these damage mods will be good for (seeing as they will probably be at least 100m a pop like other damage mods) are capitals, the rattlesnake, or the navy domi.
You also just nerfed the max dps of both the rattle, ishtar and the navy domi in PVE, while making gardes undesirable even for serp rats, as kinetic is their main hole and with the warden buff coming combined with this nerf will probably make them more desirable.
I won't call it yet, because I haven't personally worked out all the numbers, but I think you may have finally killed gardes for most PVE applications.
Alternatively, with heavy drone buffs coming, they might start being used in PVE over sentries again. We'll have to wait and see. |
Hawklandier Taranogas
Old American Syndicate Silent Infinity
4
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 13:59:00 -
[960] - Quote
There is a very simple answer to the drone question here!
When you made the changes to the battle cruisers and destroyers, you gave everyone four skills for that one. The rank of the skill was determined by the skill level at the time. i.e I had destroyers 4 at the time, then downtime came and then I had all the racial destroyer skills at 4. Sound familiar?
Why not give everyone the light and medium drone skills from the scout drone operation skill? The worst thing your doing is making making certain players having to up their clones for the increase in skill points like what you did when you made the BC/Dessy changes.
Why can't you simply do this? Its much less of a headache I have likes? How the hell did that happen? :D |
|
DoubleJ87 Solette
Unforeseen Consequences. The Unthinkables
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 16:22:00 -
[961] - Quote
You haven't even read this thread, have you? |
I TheCount I
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 16:29:00 -
[962] - Quote
Hawklandier Taranogas wrote:There is a very simple answer to the drone question here! When you made the changes to the battle cruisers and destroyers, you gave everyone four skills for that one. The rank of the skill was determined by the skill level at the time. i.e I had destroyers 4 at the time, then downtime came and then I had all the racial destroyer skills at 4. Sound familiar? Why not give everyone the light and medium drone skills from the scout drone operation skill? The worst thing your doing is making making certain players having to up their clones for the increase in skill points like what you did when you made the BC/Dessy changes. Why can't you simply do this? Its much less of a headache ...
I'm not even going to explain, just read the rest of the pages, heck, you only need to read the last 10 pages |
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 15:26:00 -
[963] - Quote
So this SDO to CDO argument seems a bit wierd...
For sentry drone it is alright if you can't launch the same drones after patch.... train the racial skill so you can keep flying them is the solution... ok...
For scout drone pilots we need to make sure you can still launch your tech 2 PVP drones before and after patch?... huh? Why is the logic used for sentry drones not applied to light and medium drones? Train Combat Drone Operations/Light Drone Operation/ Medium Drone operation and you can keep flying them?
I liked the dev blog solution better, but the reasoning in include SDO seems biased. |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
365
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 18:47:00 -
[964] - Quote
and anything about ewar drones? RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
Malwadas Kadmos
The Eleusinian
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 20:35:00 -
[965] - Quote
basicly its a good thing to take SDO into consideration for the 2 new skills since many players will profit from this. well its a sad thing for everyone who trained CDO JUST because of this anouncement but it should be clear to anyone from the begining that nothing in a Dev Blog is certain until its released so i dont realy understand why so many people cry about this decision... |
Angua Eteria
Mad Men Inc
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 22:39:00 -
[966] - Quote
What happens if you are at like 2 days left on combat drone operation when the path is released?
|
Tronity Neutronux
Tontauben II
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 13:43:00 -
[967] - Quote
What happens if you have already Scout Drone at V and you are skilling Combat Drones to V now beause you read the Dev-blog earlier and thought it's the required skill that have to be skilled before the Kronos release? Are you wasting skill time? Or is it still required for Drone Link Augmentor II and/or other stuff? |
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 20:11:00 -
[968] - Quote
Tronity Neutronux wrote:What happens if you have already Scout Drone at V and you are skilling Combat Drones to V now beause you read the Dev-blog earlier and thought it's the required skill that have to be skilled before the Kronos release? Are you wasting skill time? Or is it still required for Drone Link Augmentor II and/or other stuff? You probably need to talk to your CSM representative that you voted for... This thread had been unanswered for quite a while now... and unstickied... so doubt they will address this anymore. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15676
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 20:14:00 -
[969] - Quote
w3ak3stl1nk wrote:Tronity Neutronux wrote:What happens if you have already Scout Drone at V and you are skilling Combat Drones to V now beause you read the Dev-blog earlier and thought it's the required skill that have to be skilled before the Kronos release? Are you wasting skill time? Or is it still required for Drone Link Augmentor II and/or other stuff? You probably need to talk to your CSM representative that you voted for... This thread had been unanswered for quite a while now... and unstickied... so doubt they will address this anymore.
People who don't read the answers they've already been given don't deserve new ones just for being lazy. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
Tronity Neutronux
Tontauben II
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 21:54:00 -
[970] - Quote
w3ak3stl1nk wrote:This thread had been unanswered for quite a while now...
I see... anyway there would be still some time. I know 3 guys that are training it right now with Scout already at V. I whished I did not read the dev-blogs but found that threads erlier:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=341793 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=347938
The last one got some more info regarding scout drones but I've found no official answer regarding Drone Link Augmentor II so far.
|
|
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:25:00 -
[971] - Quote
I'm not sure about the new stats ... Can someone summarize what changes to Gallente and Minmatar? Will they both keep their level and the other drones just become better or what's the point now to use the drones in the middle of the spectrum? For me it was always about speed vs. damage ... |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
39
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 14:33:00 -
[972] - Quote
So, I've been thinking drones a fair amount lately, and I'm not sure that placing all racial drones in on a speed/damage scale will fix anything. It might make the Amarr amd Caldari drones slightly more attractive options, but they're still niche options.
Even with a dedicated drone boat, the number of drones you can carry and field is limited, why would someone choose to field an Amarr or Caldari drone over the Minmittar or Gallente ones? They may have different damage types, but I expect you're still going to see most people go to the extremes for damage, or speed, based on the current need.
Why loose damage, or chance your drones getting outrun, if you don't need too?
I know it's too close to the release now, but as a thought for the future consider giving each drone a specific role, instead of putting them on a sliding scale.
For Example: Gallente - Ther/Em - Damage High/Speed Low Caldari - Exp/Kin - Damage High/Speed Low Amarr - Em/Ther - Speed High/Damage Low Minmittar - Exp/Kin - Speed High/Damage Low
That way each race has a different speciality, split between high dmg and high speed for either shield or armor tank. Making a choice between each race then becomes a matter of stratagy, |
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 15:10:00 -
[973] - Quote
Given that you're renaming and rebalancing so much in the world of drones, for consistency sake, why not also rename "Sentry Drone Interfacing" to "Sentry Drone Operation." |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
289
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 15:15:00 -
[974] - Quote
Quote:Tracking speed values are decreasing to compensate, but all drones will track better than before when at their optimal ranges.
Numbers, please |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
829
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 15:17:00 -
[975] - Quote
mm.. so looking at the new drone spreadsheet .. ogres are getting their HP nerfed Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
iskflakes
915
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 15:19:00 -
[976] - Quote
Fozzie, are fighters going to be included in the range/tracking changes?
The Einherji orbits so close and fast that it can't hit a stationary cruiser, yet if that cruiser starts moving they are able to land a few hits. The crazy thing about this is that webbing targets actually makes them harder to hit with fighters in some situations.
There are similar issues with the other fighters. They need this change even more than the combat drones do. - |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
829
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 15:25:00 -
[977] - Quote
other things i would like fozzie too look at are ..
sensor strength .. they are all omni atm .. heavies have 22 on all 4 weird... thats more significant now with guristas 2 uber drones. signature radius on all drones ... they are all the same size .. except lights are 9m compared too 12m .. frigs are like 70-90m.
look at adding new drone skills - falloff -tracking -orbit velocity - reduced sig radius Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10633
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 15:38:00 -
[978] - Quote
Destoya wrote:Quote:Tracking speed values are decreasing to compensate, but all drones will track better than before when at their optimal ranges. Numbers, please
The numbers are all available in the spreadsheet linked at the end of the blog. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
stoicfaux
4899
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 15:59:00 -
[979] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Destoya wrote:Quote:Tracking speed values are decreasing to compensate, but all drones will track better than before when at their optimal ranges. Numbers, please The numbers are all available in the spreadsheet linked at the end of the blog. Where's the Gecko?
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
stoicfaux
4900
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 16:16:00 -
[980] - Quote
EW Drones? Pretty please? You have three days until Kronos, if you work the weekend? No?
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
|
stoicfaux
4900
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 16:26:00 -
[981] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:EW Drones? Pretty please? You have three days until Kronos, if you work the weekend? No?
Serpentis Stasis Drones...?
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
stoicfaux
4900
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 16:29:00 -
[982] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:stoicfaux wrote:EW Drones? Pretty please? You have three days until Kronos, if you work the weekend? No?
Serpentis Stasis Drones...? Sentry EW Drones? Imagine a Dominix full of ECM Sentry Drones. Or a kiting Mach with four Sentry Stasis Drones.
Still no...?
/sniffle
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Calliwrath
Drunken Shipping Drunk Void Drifters
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 16:38:00 -
[983] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Destoya wrote:Quote:Tracking speed values are decreasing to compensate, but all drones will track better than before when at their optimal ranges. Numbers, please The numbers are all available in the spreadsheet linked at the end of the blog.
Shouldn't the heavy drones orbit farther then the medium drones ? In the spreadsheet it's the same optimal for both. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10633
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 16:45:00 -
[984] - Quote
Calliwrath wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Destoya wrote:Quote:Tracking speed values are decreasing to compensate, but all drones will track better than before when at their optimal ranges. Numbers, please The numbers are all available in the spreadsheet linked at the end of the blog. Shouldn't the heavy drones orbit farther then the medium drones ? In the spreadsheet it's the same optimal for both.
Same optimal, but the heavy drones orbit farther away and have more falloff.
Note that the optimal for all the combat drones is much farther than their orbit range. However more optimal and falloff comes in useful against targets that move around too much for a stable orbit. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Berluth Luthian
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
198
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 16:47:00 -
[985] - Quote
Were EWAR drones going to be looked at at some point ever? I was hoping they'd be a part of this patch. |
Gin Alley
25
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 17:03:00 -
[986] - Quote
Can I still control half of 0.0 with a sentry carrier blob thats all I wanna know.. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10641
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 17:27:00 -
[987] - Quote
Gin Alley wrote:Can I still control half of 0.0 with a sentry carrier blob thats all I wanna know..
You can do anything if you work hard and believe in yourself. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
stoicfaux
4900
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 17:42:00 -
[988] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Gin Alley wrote:Can I still control half of 0.0 with a sentry carrier blob thats all I wanna know.. You can do anything if you work hard and believe in yourself friendship. And ponies. FTFY.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 17:53:00 -
[989] - Quote
In the latest summary dev blog I read about a change to the tracking/optimal to all drones ... will they now be able to apply damage to small stationary targets when in orbit? Last week when I tested on SiSi Hammers where not at all and Hobs only occasionally applying damage to a stationary Hobgoblin II ... In contrast during approach before reaching orbit they applied almost the full damage. Maybe this test was not realistic, because in a real fight the enemy drones would move ... but webbing seems counterproductive in this case. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10642
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 17:56:00 -
[990] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:In the latest summary dev blog I read about a change to the tracking/optimal to all drones ... will they now be able to apply damage to small stationary targets when in orbit? Last week when I tested on SiSi Hammers where not at all and Hobs only occasionally applying damage to a stationary Hobgoblin II ... In contrast during approach before reaching orbit they applied almost the full damage. Maybe this test was not realistic, because in a real fight the enemy drones would move ... but webbing seems counterproductive in this case.
Drones will not have a better chance of hitting small stationary targets than before, but against very small targets like light drones their transversal can still be a significant challenge. That being said, try the same test with an Infiltrator drone and you'll notice an improvement. Hammerheads have the weakest tracking of all medium drones. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
|
Arronicus
X-Prot Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
1023
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 18:14:00 -
[991] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Gin Alley wrote:Can I still control half of 0.0 with a sentry carrier blob thats all I wanna know.. You can do anything if you work hard and believe in yourself friendship. And ponies. FTFY.
Please don't try to undo our hard work in getting rid of all things MLP on eve. *shudders* |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 18:16:00 -
[992] - Quote
BTW, same results with Valkyrie II against Hobs. OK, will do more tests with the other types next week when back at a PC. When trying to kill the enemy drones in a fight with my own drones, I recognized that the damage decreased the longer the fight against a particular drone lasted which seemed weird to me ... |
David Laurentson
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
97
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 19:24:00 -
[993] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:BTW, same results with Valkyrie II against Hobs. OK, will do more tests with the other types next week when back at a PC. When trying to kill the enemy drones in a fight with my own drones, I recognized that the damage decreased the longer the fight against a particular drone lasted which seemed weird to me ...
IME, pre-change, the Amarr drones were amazingly good at shooting under-sized targets. Their speed/tracking combination was just right, while the Hammers couldn't track and the Valks orbited too fast.
As for your non-stationary drone test, that's likely because the orbits stabilised. Drones arrive on target at a ridiculous multiple of their planned orbital velocity. They have to both slow from full MWD speed and circularise their orbits around a mobile target: it takes a bit for them to settle into an orbit that isn't frequently adjusting to the target's motion. |
Wylt Echerie
General Bovine Excrement Export
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 19:44:00 -
[994] - Quote
Nice! Dev blog updated with changes to how the skill split is being handled! Only a month after making the decision! |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10169
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 23:09:00 -
[995] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Gin Alley wrote:Can I still control half of 0.0 with a sentry carrier blob thats all I wanna know.. You can do anything if you work hard and believe in yourself. NO NOT BELIEVING IN YOURSELF "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
|
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
78
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 03:06:00 -
[996] - Quote
any change to tracking or other stats related to the update for the Gecko? |
Aria Jimbojohnson
University of Caille Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 12:55:00 -
[997] - Quote
Wylt Echerie wrote:Nice! Dev blog updated with changes to how the skill split is being handled! Only a month after making the decision!
...and 3 days before release. Yay? |
Joe South
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 13:28:00 -
[998] - Quote
Since someone waited until the very last day or so before posting on the dev blog that we actually didn't need to train Combat Drone Operation V, you should give us the SP back for that skill when you make the change. This is for characters that also had Scout Drone Operation V trained.
You should do this anyway, regardless of this miscommunication, as any other approach simply gives SP to those who didn't train this skill while eliminating a fully trained skill for another set of characters. If someone has explained how this is will be fairly compensated, I apologize for not seeing this and would appreciate a link to that reasonable explanation as a reply to this post. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
78
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 15:53:00 -
[999] - Quote
Joe South wrote:Since someone waited until the very last day or so before posting on the dev blog that we actually didn't need to train Combat Drone Operation V, you should give us the SP back for that skill when you make the change. This is for characters that also had Scout Drone Operation V trained.
You should do this anyway, regardless of this miscommunication, as any other approach simply gives SP to those who didn't train this skill while eliminating a fully trained skill for another set of characters. If someone has explained how this is will be fairly compensated, I apologize for not seeing this and would appreciate a link to that reasonable explanation as a reply to this post.
Fozzie stated the following in Post #630 on April 3 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4431589#post4431589
"As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime."
This was known for some time and repeated in various other outlets |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
830
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 16:32:00 -
[1000] - Quote
fozzie ... are geckos going to be updated with the new drone ranges etc? .. and also will 1 gecko they still do more dps than 2 ogres like they do now ? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
|
Joe South
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 16:34:00 -
[1001] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Fozzie stated the following in Post #630 on April 3 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4431589#post4431589"As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime." This was known for some time and repeated in various other outlets
Thanks, but that's a forum post among many pages of forum posts. The original dev blog was not modified in this way until very recently. There is no reason for the conflicting information to have remained.
On top of this, the point remains that some pilots are having a skill removed without any adjustment or compensation. Someone who had both trained to V before any of this was changed is still getting the shaft. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
78
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 17:10:00 -
[1002] - Quote
Joe South wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Fozzie stated the following in Post #630 on April 3 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4431589#post4431589"As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime." This was known for some time and repeated in various other outlets Thanks, but that's a forum post among many pages of forum posts. The original dev blog was not modified in this way until very recently. There is no reason for the conflicting information to have remained. On top of this, the point remains that some pilots are having a skill removed without any adjustment or compensation. Someone who had both trained to V before any of this was changed is still getting the shaft.
Scout drone operation isn't going away, it's being renamed. Combat drone operation is going away and being replaced by Light and Medium. Don't think you are actually losing anything if you had both trained already. Could be wrong, but don't think so. |
Rikki Bigg
EVE University Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 22:09:00 -
[1003] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Joe South wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Fozzie stated the following in Post #630 on April 3 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4431589#post4431589"As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime." This was known for some time and repeated in various other outlets Thanks, but that's a forum post among many pages of forum posts. The original dev blog was not modified in this way until very recently. There is no reason for the conflicting information to have remained. On top of this, the point remains that some pilots are having a skill removed without any adjustment or compensation. Someone who had both trained to V before any of this was changed is still getting the shaft. Scout drone operation isn't going away, it's being renamed to like Drone Avionics or something. Combat drone operation is going away and being replaced by Light and Medium. Don't think you are actually losing anything if you had both trained already. Yes, if you had neither fully trained and just went with Scout to 5, you may get more "free" SP in the end, but I don't think you lose SP. Could be wrong but I don't think so.
The point is this:
An experienced player that has both Combat and Scout Drone Operation isn't effected either way, they will get the new Light/Medium skills.
A brand new player that was told to train the drone skill to get 'free' skill points possibly didn't have the information buried in the thread, and worst case scenario trained Combat Drone Operation cross map with no implants, gains a very modest return of 3:2. Players 'in the know' instead train Scout Drone Operation, and get three for one with their sp investment.
A alt character for a ratting Sentry Ishtar or Carrier pilot has Scout Drone Operation trained to V (best case scenario) and no sp invested in Combat, as they never use Light/Medium drones. They get a free gift for something they would likely never train anyway.
Tell me how CCP, that is making an attempt (or at least the appearance of an attempt) to recruit more players and make the experience better for the new players, didn't drop the ball on this one all because someone couldn't be bothered to update the devblog when they made a rather sizable change to the rules, at least until the point was reached that it was too late to benefit from it? |
JamnOne
Jammin Corp Jammin Mad
15
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 22:31:00 -
[1004] - Quote
Will one of the following for heavies be changed - skill or damage?
I read in the blog that MWD speed and orbital distance will increase and damage will decrease. Does this mean the base damage will decrease and the skill bonus of 5% will remain to bring it back up? Will the base damage increase so the speed and distance that decreases the damage of the heavy drone will be offset by the skill increase? |
Joe South
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 22:44:00 -
[1005] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Yes, if you had neither fully trained and just went with Scout to 5, you may get more "free" SP in the end, but I don't think you lose SP. Could be wrong but I don't think so.
You are exactly correct in one sense and, as someone else expressed in a different way, you are also making my point for me. The full reality, however, is Scout Drone Operation V is all that's necessary to receive fully trained credit for the new Light and Medium skills, so Combat Drone Operation V (512K) is effectively being thrown away -- it's about a week worth of training down the drain.
It's disingenuous for CCP to say, "Hey, you get two skills for one with this change." That's especially true when they left different instructions in the dev blog until a day or so ago.
The only fair thing for CCP to do is give back 512K in SP to any character that has both Scout Drone Operation V and Combat Drone Operation V. That's an easy, acceptable solution that can satisfy all. How many of those opportunities come along?
Is Fozzie even reading this anymore? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
833
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 12:14:00 -
[1006] - Quote
i also think its wrong that fighter bombers have more tank than black op battleships ... they should trade some tank for lower sig radius .. will protect them against bombs more and give them more orbit velocity ... they orbit the speed of a battleship... i would also suggest a higher rate of fire but less damage ... 15seconds is a bit long.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
833
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 12:20:00 -
[1007] - Quote
on drone sig radius .. they are too high and should be reduced.. they after-all about 1/10th the size of an actual frigate.. light drones ... sig radius warrior 8 acolyte 10 hornet 12 hobgoblin 14
medium drones Valkyrie 16 infiltrator 18 Vespa 20 Hammerhead 22
Heavy drones Beserker 24 Praetor 26 Wasp 28 Ogre 30
Sentry drones Bouncer 32 Curator 34 Warden 36 Garde 38 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
833
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 15:18:00 -
[1008] - Quote
some movable turrets on the drone models would be nice .. like ships have :) .. also more unique drones would be nice its a little weird you used a fighter for the gecko ... no faction tag on it either.. a unique ogre sized model would make much more sense Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
833
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 15:30:00 -
[1009] - Quote
and please put drone control range in the attributes tab for christ sake ... having too use so many 3rd party sites too do basic things is just poor and downright bizzare Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
833
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 16:15:00 -
[1010] - Quote
perhaps you could add entity range to drone attributes tab in game and perhaps rename it to orbit range so its easier for noobs too understand...
we need more clarity on how drones actually work... its quite difficult for an older player too understand all the different facets of how drones work and the weird names like activation proximity, coding etc behind them .. imagine what its like for a noob gallente pilot trying too learn how there main weapon type works.... Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
|
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
833
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 17:34:00 -
[1011] - Quote
i also think that ecm should make drones idle when the parent ship is jammed ... since they only operate because of the comms link with the ship i.e. drone bandwidth .. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
533
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 23:36:00 -
[1012] - Quote
Joe South wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Yes, if you had neither fully trained and just went with Scout to 5, you may get more "free" SP in the end, but I don't think you lose SP. Could be wrong but I don't think so. You are exactly correct in one sense and, as someone else expressed in a different way, you are also making my point for me. The full reality, however, is Scout Drone Operation V is all that's necessary to receive fully trained credit for the new Light and Medium skills, so Combat Drone Operation V (512K) is effectively being thrown away -- it's about a week worth of training down the drain. It's disingenuous for CCP to say, "Hey, you get two skills for one with this change." That's especially true when they left different instructions in the dev blog until a day or so ago. The only fair thing for CCP to do is give back 512K in SP to any character that has both Scout Drone Operation V and Combat Drone Operation V. That's an easy, acceptable solution that can satisfy all. How many of those opportunities come along? Is Fozzie even reading this anymore?
Basically this. I admit that we're all effectively getting some 'free' SP out of this, but some people are getting half a million more than others, and that's not fair, and not in the spirit of EvE, with some players getting favored by CCP and some not. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
10674
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 13:51:00 -
[1013] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:fozzie ... are geckos going to be updated with the new drone ranges etc? .. and also will 1 gecko they still do more dps than 2 ogres like they do now ?
Geckos are indeed being updated with the new ranges, but their base damage is not changing in Kronos. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
15
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 15:12:00 -
[1014] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Joe South wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:Fozzie stated the following in Post #630 on April 3 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4431589#post4431589"As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime." This was known for some time and repeated in various other outlets Thanks, but that's a forum post among many pages of forum posts. The original dev blog was not modified in this way until very recently. There is no reason for the conflicting information to have remained. On top of this, the point remains that some pilots are having a skill removed without any adjustment or compensation. Someone who had both trained to V before any of this was changed is still getting the shaft. Scout drone operation isn't going away, it's being renamed to like Drone Avionics or something. Combat drone operation is going away and being replaced by Light and Medium. Don't think you are actually losing anything if you had both trained already. Yes, if you had neither fully trained and just went with Scout to 5, you may get more "free" SP in the end, but I don't think you lose SP. Could be wrong but I don't think so.
yes but what about those who DIDN'T have it trained to V. I just spent 10 days on 5 characters training combat drone operation to V which was a COMPLETE waste of time now. As all of them already had scout drone operation to V as this was the prerequisite for all t2 light and medium drones........ |
Absocold
Origin. Black Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 17:47:00 -
[1015] - Quote
Quote:...heavy drones will see their orbit range increased by between 1300% and 1500%
You just made it impossible to use smartbombs to kill heavy drones, they will orbit at more than twice the distance a smartbomb of any size will reach. |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
15
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 20:39:00 -
[1016] - Quote
To reiterate on my earlier comment scout drone operation to V (1x) was only 216,000 sp where as combat drone operation (2x) is 512,000 sp.
There are three situations which would be nice if CCP would address for different characters
Character 1 Combat drone (not injected) Scout drone V
result: change nothing and thanks for the free skills
Character 2 Combat drone V Scout drone (not injected)
This would most likely have been a very odd train given the characteristic but I'm willing to bet there were several newer players that got this based off their corp leadership recommendations. result: character receives 296,000 sp (sp of combat - missing sp of scout)
Character 3 Combat drone V Scout drone V
result: player receives 512,000 free sp as the combat was completely unnecessary
This obviously does not take into account people without these skills to V but you can easily apply the same principles I listed above to their characters.
Even if the only thing that happens is that players with combat drone to V would get the "character 2" option regardless of their scout drone skill I would be more accepting. It still would screw over people who got both to V but it wouldn't feel so much like a bad April fools joke for those of use who spent the time training it. |
Marsan
229
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 01:29:00 -
[1017] - Quote
I'm still not seeing why I'd ever use Caldari, or Amarr. In nearly every case I either want to hit small/fast targets or I want to hit slow/big targets as hard as possible. A middle of the road drone isn't worth carrying unless I'm missioning and the damage type is right. (Even then I'm not sure anyone will want to switch yet another system.) There isn't even a choice between speed and tracking as the same drone has the best speed and tracking. Simply put unless I'm flying something with a drone bay the size of the carrier I'm not bringing Amarr or Caldari drones, and even then I'm not likely to pull out my slide rule to figure out the right drone for the job.... Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community. |
Lucas41
Epidemic. Nulli Secunda
15
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 12:40:00 -
[1018] - Quote
removing comment until I can check ingame. I must be missing something |
Andy Landen
Homeworld Republic The East India Co.
503
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 13:01:00 -
[1019] - Quote
Marsan wrote:I'm still not seeing why I'd ever use Caldari, or Amarr. In nearly every case I either want to hit small/fast targets or I want to hit slow/big targets as hard as possible. A middle of the road drone isn't worth carrying unless I'm missioning and the damage type is right. (Even then I'm not sure anyone will want to switch yet another system.) There isn't even a choice between speed and tracking as the same drone has the best speed and tracking. Simply put unless I'm flying something with a drone bay the size of the carrier I'm not bringing Amarr or Caldari drones, and even then I'm not likely to pull out my slide rule to figure out the right drone for the job.... You have a drone slide rule?
Seriously though, Gila and Rattlesnake are stripped of the drone powers? How many ships are left with solid drone bonuses these days? It's bad enough that drones do not travel with you in warp and can be destroyed fairly easily with no obvious advantage over turrets or missiles. Carriers need much more love against the DD and love for their drones and RR powers which are currently quite limited. Carriers have no special bonuses for drones and fighters cannot compete with sentries. Also, Carriers cannot fit all cap RR like logi ships due to massive needs for EHP against the DD challenging their capacitor production. "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein-á |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 13:02:00 -
[1020] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:Joe South wrote:Since someone waited until the very last day or so before posting on the dev blog that we actually didn't need to train Combat Drone Operation V, you should give us the SP back for that skill when you make the change. This is for characters that also had Scout Drone Operation V trained.
You should do this anyway, regardless of this miscommunication, as any other approach simply gives SP to those who didn't train this skill while eliminating a fully trained skill for another set of characters. If someone has explained how this is will be fairly compensated, I apologize for not seeing this and would appreciate a link to that reasonable explanation as a reply to this post. Fozzie stated the following in Post #630 on April 3 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4431589#post4431589"As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime." This was known for some time and repeated in various other outlets
yes but they didn't update THE OFFICIAL DEV blog for much later. If you didn't read it here in the forums you would have no way of knowing that. |
|
Gfy Trextron
Soul Takers
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 15:44:00 -
[1021] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:To reiterate on my earlier comment scout drone operation to V (1x) was only 216,000 sp where as combat drone operation (2x) is 512,000 sp.
There are three situations which would be nice if CCP would address for different characters
Character 1 Combat drone (not injected) Scout drone V
result: change nothing and thanks for the free skills
Character 2 Combat drone V Scout drone (not injected)
This would most likely have been a very odd train given the characteristic but I'm willing to bet there were several newer players that got this based off their corp leadership recommendations. result: character receives 296,000 sp (sp of combat - missing sp of scout)
Character 3 Combat drone V Scout drone V
result: player receives 512,000 free sp as the combat was completely unnecessary
This obviously does not take into account people without these skills to V but you can easily apply the same principles I listed above to their characters.
Even if the only thing that happens is that players with combat drone to V would get the "character 2" option regardless of their scout drone skill I would be more accepting. It still would screw over people who got both to V but it wouldn't feel so much like a bad April fools joke for those of use who spent the time training it.
Silly me, I assumed that this is what was going to happen when I read the latest notes yesterday. Was not happy when I looked for my SP's to apply today.
Noobs got a reach around and we didn't even get lube. |
dolus directus1
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 16:04:00 -
[1022] - Quote
So Fighter Bomber Hitpoints didn't get doubled as it was anounced in the Devblog or is this a bug?
Drone bay info only shows doubled shield but should be more with the hull and skill bonus of supers. |
Deimir
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 16:40:00 -
[1023] - Quote
With the changes to Drone Interfacing, my Armageddon just lost 200 dps because Geckos were excluded from the damage rebalance... |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 18:47:00 -
[1024] - Quote
dolus directus1 wrote:So Fighter Bomber Hitpoints didn't get doubled as it was anounced in the Devblog or is this a bug?
Drone bay info only shows doubled shield but should be more with the hull and skill bonus of supers.
It won't show the stats unless the bombers are in your drone bay of your super carrier since the bonus is a ship bonus |
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 18:49:00 -
[1025] - Quote
Gfy Trextron wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:To reiterate on my earlier comment scout drone operation to V (1x) was only 216,000 sp where as combat drone operation (2x) is 512,000 sp.
There are three situations which would be nice if CCP would address for different characters
Character 1 Combat drone (not injected) Scout drone V
result: change nothing and thanks for the free skills
Character 2 Combat drone V Scout drone (not injected)
This would most likely have been a very odd train given the characteristic but I'm willing to bet there were several newer players that got this based off their corp leadership recommendations. result: character receives 296,000 sp (sp of combat - missing sp of scout)
Character 3 Combat drone V Scout drone V
result: player receives 512,000 free sp as the combat was completely unnecessary
This obviously does not take into account people without these skills to V but you can easily apply the same principles I listed above to their characters.
Even if the only thing that happens is that players with combat drone to V would get the "character 2" option regardless of their scout drone skill I would be more accepting. It still would screw over people who got both to V but it wouldn't feel so much like a bad April fools joke for those of use who spent the time training it. Silly me, I assumed that this is what was going to happen when I read the latest notes yesterday. Was not happy when I looked for my SP's to apply today. Noobs got a reach around and we didn't even get lube.
Unless you were a noob that trained Combat drones V then you got double screwed because they probably did it unmapped and without implants. I was equally disappointed.... Like I said this change cost me 70 DAYS of unnecessary training between all my toons..... |
Rikki Bigg
EVE University Ivy League
5
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 13:37:00 -
[1026] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Gfy Trextron wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:To reiterate on my earlier comment scout drone operation to V (1x) was only 216,000 sp where as combat drone operation (2x) is 512,000 sp.
There are three situations which would be nice if CCP would address for different characters
Character 1 Combat drone (not injected) Scout drone V
result: change nothing and thanks for the free skills
Character 2 Combat drone V Scout drone (not injected)
This would most likely have been a very odd train given the characteristic but I'm willing to bet there were several newer players that got this based off their corp leadership recommendations. result: character receives 296,000 sp (sp of combat - missing sp of scout)
Character 3 Combat drone V Scout drone V
result: player receives 512,000 free sp as the combat was completely unnecessary
This obviously does not take into account people without these skills to V but you can easily apply the same principles I listed above to their characters.
Even if the only thing that happens is that players with combat drone to V would get the "character 2" option regardless of their scout drone skill I would be more accepting. It still would screw over people who got both to V but it wouldn't feel so much like a bad April fools joke for those of use who spent the time training it. Silly me, I assumed that this is what was going to happen when I read the latest notes yesterday. Was not happy when I looked for my SP's to apply today. Noobs got a reach around and we didn't even get lube. Unless you were a noob that trained Combat drones V then you got double screwed because they probably did it unmapped and without implants. I was equally disappointed.... Like I said this change cost me 70 DAYS of unnecessary training between all my toons.....
Dont forget that players with CDO and not SDO still cannot use the Drone Link Augmentors that they could use before the change... |
Rabbit P
Nuwa Foundation Fraternity.
10
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 08:00:00 -
[1027] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
To clarify, the orbit range is determined by the entityFlyRange attribute.
in the spreadsheet , heavy drone's entityFlyRange is between 2800 and 3200 in the dev blog, heavy drone's orbit range increased by between 1300% and 1500%
heavy drone's orbit range before kronos is just 200m? |
Joe South
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 13:06:00 -
[1028] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:Gfy Trextron wrote:Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:To reiterate on my earlier comment scout drone operation to V (1x) was only 216,000 sp where as combat drone operation (2x) is 512,000 sp.
There are three situations which would be nice if CCP would address for different characters
Character 1 Combat drone (not injected) Scout drone V
result: change nothing and thanks for the free skills
Character 2 Combat drone V Scout drone (not injected)
This would most likely have been a very odd train given the characteristic but I'm willing to bet there were several newer players that got this based off their corp leadership recommendations. result: character receives 296,000 sp (sp of combat - missing sp of scout)
Character 3 Combat drone V Scout drone V
result: player receives 512,000 free sp as the combat was completely unnecessary
This obviously does not take into account people without these skills to V but you can easily apply the same principles I listed above to their characters.
Even if the only thing that happens is that players with combat drone to V would get the "character 2" option regardless of their scout drone skill I would be more accepting. It still would screw over people who got both to V but it wouldn't feel so much like a bad April fools joke for those of use who spent the time training it. Silly me, I assumed that this is what was going to happen when I read the latest notes yesterday. Was not happy when I looked for my SP's to apply today. Noobs got a reach around and we didn't even get lube. Unless you were a noob that trained Combat drones V then you got double screwed because they probably did it unmapped and without implants. I was equally disappointed.... Like I said this change cost me 70 DAYS of unnecessary training between all my toons.....
So, is anyone at CCP going to address this, or are you going to keep pretending this inequity doesn't exist?
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Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 15:04:00 -
[1029] - Quote
In continuing my rant about this change there is even more inequality in the gifted skills since the patch. Below are two situations and what happened post patch and you will understand my frustration even more.
Character 1 1x scout drone operation V 2x combat drone (not injected)
Post patch light combat drone V medium combat drone V drone avionics V
Character 2 1x scout drone (not injected) 2x combat drone V
Post patch Light combat drone V medium combat drone V (note no drone avionics)
So not only did you waste more time training you also don't get the skill a 1x skill gave. This is ridiculous as the only reason they changed everything was because people complained about not being able to use medium drones post patch yet anyone who had t2 sentries but not the racial skills can no longer use them without getting those skills. |
AllDark Kane
True Horde Smile 'n' Wave
11
|
Posted - 2014.06.07 10:56:00 -
[1030] - Quote
So, hereGÇÖs my view of the current situation with drones after the Kronos update.
IGÇÖve already agreed with one of the previous posts, concerning drone mechanics in combat. Right now the cycle MWD-orbit-MWD renders the drones useless in a high-speed combat and itGÇÖs true for all types of drones. Take Warriors for example. They got a speed boost, BUT even before the update I was able to raise their speed up to 7k. So, hereGÇÖs the question: what does this speed boost give them? Nothing in particular.
And hereGÇÖs why: If the frigates speed is above 3.5 k m/s, the drones arenGÇÖt able to hit the target within the optimal range. Likely because Warriors lack tracking.
Let me explain what happens by drawing a parallel between drones and turrets. Imagine if the turrets tracking mechanics worked like this GÇô after defining the targetGÇÖs coordinates in space, the turrets donGÇÖt align themselves to those coordinates directly. Instead they first start moving along the vertical line till it intersects with the horizontal line, then they continue moving along the horizontal line till they finally reach the above mentioned coordinates. The target is still there? No? Too bad.
So, we are back to where we started: define the coordinates GÇô> vertical aiming -> horizontal aiming (starting MWD for drones)GǪ.And once again the target has left the previously defined coordinates. How so? So, what weGÇÖre looking at here is the example of how the dronesGÇÖ MWD-orbit cycle works. If the turrets tracking mechanism worked as it was described above, the turrets wouldnGÇÖt hit the targets after they crossed a certain speed threshold, the turrets would need ten times better tracking then they have now, 1 to 100 or even 1000.
But if the turrets did work according to the above-mentioned tracking mechanics 1 to 100 or 1 to 1000, they wouldnGÇÖt need tracking at all. Because theyGÇÖll be hitting their targets anyway. As for the drones thereGÇÖs a 99% chance of drones missing their target, if it flies above 4k m/s, thanks to the low orbiting speed of drones, even if their MWD speed is 7k m/s.
What IGÇÖm proposing is:
1. letting the drones shoot their targets without switching from MWD to orbiting in case the drone doesnGÇÖt have enough time to shoot its target in optimal range after calculating the point of entering the orbit.
2. raising the orbiting speed. According to my estimates it should be half the maximum MWD speed. Of course, in this case calculations must be accurate, but I doubt it will be of any problem once you have exact numbers.
3. if you donGÇÖt want to make the drones work right, try making turrets tracking mechanics work similar to what I wrote above keeping current tracking speeds intact. WeGÇÖll see how the majority of players reacts to such adjustments.
I would like my propositions to be considered as an option in patching the Kronos update, because you created drones as a weapon, but you didnGÇÖt make them work as they should.
Dear developers, your ideas are great and the Kronos update has brought many improvements, but it didnGÇÖt bring us what was originally intended.
I would also like to ask the EVE-community to support my post.
With best regards, capsuleer Alldark Kane |
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Dalmat Gadin
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 16:40:00 -
[1031] - Quote
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:In continuing my rant about this change there is even more inequality in the gifted skills since the patch. Below are two situations and what happened post patch and you will understand my frustration even more.
Character 1 1x scout drone operation V 2x combat drone (not injected)
Post patch light combat drone V medium combat drone V drone avionics V
Character 2 1x scout drone (not injected) 2x combat drone V
Post patch Light combat drone V medium combat drone V (note no drone avionics)
So not only did you waste more time training you also don't get the skill a 1x skill gave. This is ridiculous as the only reason they changed everything was because people complained about not being able to use medium drones post patch yet anyone who had t2 sentries but not the racial skills can no longer use them without getting those skills. Honestly if this was a large investment of your time you would think to do research before you would commit to training on all of your characters. The information about the drone skills have been posted on the forums for more then a month before the patch hit, so you can really only be mad at yourself for not investing some time but instead jumped the gun and went straight into training.
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Deriah Book
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 18:04:00 -
[1032] - Quote
The more I look at my skill tree the more disappointed I am with the nerf to sentry drones. I'm well over 100 days of training away from getting back to where I was the day before the patch. And that is only if I count the ship bonuses on the Stratios. Without the ship bonuses Sentries are still down 10%.
Blah. . .
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Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 19:53:00 -
[1033] - Quote
Dalmat Gadin wrote: Honestly if this was a large investment of your time you would think to do research before you would commit to training on all of your characters. The information about the drone skills have been posted on the forums for more then a month before the patch hit, so you can really only be mad at yourself for not investing some time but instead jumped the gun and went straight into training.
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Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 23:41:00 -
[1034] - Quote
Dalmat Gadin wrote: Honestly if this was a large investment of your time you would think to do research before you would commit to training on all of your characters. The information about the drone skills have been posted on the forums for more then a month before the patch hit, so you can really only be mad at yourself for not investing some time but instead jumped the gun and went straight into training.
Why even bother posting to say such a thing? It's like you don't want CCP to treat everyone equally and feel so strongly that you must post about it? Your point is moot, anyway.
I finished training CDO V (having already had SDO V) about a week before the first dev blog announcement. I trained it at that time purely for remap reasons, not because I actually would get benefit immediately from the skill. I planned my training out to be optimal. I spent the ISK for +5s. I used a PLEX to train it with dual-character training. And all of this was a complete waste because CCP decided to remove the skill without any reimbursement for characters like mine (because I already had SDO V, SDO was used for all the skill transitions and CDO was simply and quietly removed). I did not speculate on the dev blog, so your argument is irrelevant. Although, if I had trained the skill because of the dev blog, the inequality of the change would still exist. It really does not matter.
This may only be 10 days of training time. It may be 100 days if you have 10 alts. The fact that CCP implemented a change as careless as this - that is so obviously imbalanced - and is unwilling to respond to any of the valid concerns brought forward by the players is a disgrace. If CCP continues to stay quiet on this and refuses to acknowledge the inequality that resulted from these changes, then it will remain a total blow to CCPs reputation in the minds of quite a few players. It is definitely not an encouraging sign if a change like this can make it into the game, even more discouraging if it is left uncorrected and unacknowledged. What prevents this from happening again with a skill that requires 2 PLEX to train? I guess we have to be careful not to pick the wrong skill combinations, else we might be out of luck... |
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