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 csebal Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi    |
Posted - 2005.08.30 13:16:00 -
[901]
You cannot expect the same DPS from different ships. Heavy Beam IIs are medium range, so their DPS output should obviously be lower than that of a thorax /w drones. So you SHOULD NOT - NEVER, NEVER EVER, NOPE - equalize the DPS of ships, but instead you have to look at their roles, and determine a DPS according to that. Meaning: Short range = high DPS Medium range = medium DPS Long range = low DPS why that? Because long range ships rely on their ability to get away before they get hurt, plus they have a damage advantage against short range ones, as the short range ships have to get close to them first. Short range on the other hand requires you to stand toe-to-toe with your opponent, meaning that unless you fit WCSs, it'll be a fight to the death. You rely on high damage to kill the opponent, and get out before you get killed by more enemies. I do not know how that is hard to understand. Just look at the different guns, and you'll see, that the shorter it's range is, the bigger the actual DPS gets. The ideal balance of course would be to have: frig sized ships, able to fit frig sized weapons / cruiser sized weapons, vulnerable to frig sized weapons, almost invulnerable to cruiser sized ones, basically invisible to BS and larger. cruiser sized ships, able to fit frig - to - BS sized weapons, vulnerable to cruiser sized weapons, base 75% resistance (over any armor res) against frig sized weapons, almost invulnerable to BS sized guns. battleship sized ships, able to fit frig - to - dread guns, vulnerable to BS weapons, invulnerable to frig sized ones, base 75% resistance (over any armor res) against cruiser weapons, almost invulnerable to dread guns. dreads, only prone to other dreads / pos defenses, able to fit anything, but only ships the same class the weapon fired is in. This way, people would be forced to have mixed fleets / mixed ship setups. Too bad that the majority of people only want to grind their way through the biggest gun, and they do not care about real balance or fleet composition. Thats why we have threads like this, because people are afraid to lose their 'i-win' HACs, and consider any ship being at least nearly useful against them to be a threat. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Rest.In.Peace HUN |
 j0sephine |
Posted - 2005.08.30 13:37:00 -
[902] Edited by: j0sephine on 30/08/2005 13:38:16 "That is reverse logic, and it does no good. Just because the whole cruiser class is a pile of cr4p, the few ones that are still useful to some extent should be nerfed? Shouldn't we instead think about ways to make the other cruisers more useful as well?" I think it should perhaps be first considered if Thorax is currently at the level all cruisers should be brought up to? It's without doubt cool for a Thorax pilot that they have little to fear from smaller ships, can give the HAC more than a handful of trouble and have fair chance 1v1 to waste battleships. But now picture all cruisers become like that. Frigates no longer pose any practical harm to them. Anything bigger than cruiser turns somewhat pointless, because why spend millions on heavier ships when couple of cruisers will perform just as well... not much fun, unless you're the cruiser pilot -.o I'd like to see cruisers get a boost, but perhaps their 'desired' power level is a tad bit below were Thorax currently is at, and so she needs a small power reduction regardless of how weak other ships in her class might be. It's not the case of "nerf this or boost that" but rather "nerf this and boost that" imo... o.O; |
 j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.08.30 13:37:00 -
[903] Edited by: j0sephine on 30/08/2005 13:38:16 "That is reverse logic, and it does no good. Just because the whole cruiser class is a pile of cr4p, the few ones that are still useful to some extent should be nerfed? Shouldn't we instead think about ways to make the other cruisers more useful as well?" I think it should perhaps be first considered if Thorax is currently at the level all cruisers should be brought up to? It's without doubt cool for a Thorax pilot that they have little to fear from smaller ships, can give the HAC more than a handful of trouble and have fair chance 1v1 to waste battleships. But now picture all cruisers become like that. Frigates no longer pose any practical harm to them. Anything bigger than cruiser turns somewhat pointless, because why spend millions on heavier ships when couple of cruisers will perform just as well... not much fun, unless you're the cruiser pilot -.o I'd like to see cruisers get a boost, but perhaps their 'desired' power level is a tad bit below were Thorax currently is at, and so she needs a small power reduction regardless of how weak other ships in her class might be. It's not the case of "nerf this or boost that" but rather "nerf this and boost that" imo... o.O; |
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.08.30 13:37:00 -
[904] Edited by: j0sephine on 30/08/2005 13:38:16 "That is reverse logic, and it does no good. Just because the whole cruiser class is a pile of cr4p, the few ones that are still useful to some extent should be nerfed? Shouldn't we instead think about ways to make the other cruisers more useful as well?" I think it should perhaps be first considered if Thorax is currently at the level all cruisers should be brought up to? It's without doubt cool for a Thorax pilot that they have little to fear from smaller ships, can give the HAC more than a handful of trouble and have fair chance 1v1 to waste battleships. But now picture all cruisers become like that. Frigates no longer pose any practical harm to them. Anything bigger than cruiser turns somewhat pointless, because why spend millions on heavier ships when couple of cruisers will perform just as well... not much fun, unless you're the cruiser pilot -.o I'd like to see cruisers get a boost, but perhaps their 'desired' power level is a tad bit below were Thorax currently is at, and so she needs a small power reduction regardless of how weak other ships in her class might be. It's not the case of "nerf this or boost that" but rather "nerf this and boost that" imo... o.O; |
 BlackDog Rackh'am |
Posted - 2005.08.30 14:04:00 -
[905] Edited by: BlackDog Rackh''am on 30/08/2005 14:07:28 Csebal i agree that all cruisers need a boost,as i also agree with the idea of mixed fleets.However,if we boost them all to an equal amount,starting from the point they stand now,the rax will still be too much for the rest.I wouldn't like to see plates nerfed,because it will affect every cruiser,that already has a hard time against the rax now.Plates are good because they give you options to choose from and add more variety to the game. So,we have two options. One is to nerf the rax drone bay,and THEN boost everything(let's say you get 100m3 but more PG/CPU to fit some decent medium guns),so we start boosting equal ships.Equal means able to perform in a similarly adequate way in their INTENDED ROLE.That is,a rupture or moa at long range must be as good as a thorax at close range and as good as an omen at medium range. The other way is to leave the rax as it is,and give more turrets/CPU/PG to all the other cruisers but NOT to the thorax. Both of the solutions are fine with me.However,if the 1st one is used some of the rax drivers will complain about the nerf.If the 2nd one is used,the same rax drivers will complain that they didn't get a boost,and will cry that now they can never get in range to shoot,with or without plates. That will happen because,even when it's been stated far too many times already,a lot of people can't,or don't want to,understand the problem.The problem is that every cruiser has to choose between survivability (plate+small guns) or damage (small or no tank+med guns),except the thorax which can do both of them at the same time with ONE setup,thanks to the 8 heavy drones. So,i say let the rax drivers choose what they want.Do you want a smaller bay and the ability to fit a not so heavy but decent tank with medium guns as well?Or do you want to keep your drone bay and let all the other guys EXCEPT you fly around with more medium guns,while you use frigate blasters?Choose wisely,because in the end something's got to give.You can't have your cake and eat it(or gank your cake and tank it in this case  )EDIT:I also agree with josephine.Make cruisers highly customizable ships,but don't make them do everything equally well.Make the cruiser pilot have to choose what they want to do well and what they don't mind having to do not so well. |
 BlackDog Rackh'am Minmatar Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed |
Posted - 2005.08.30 14:04:00 -
[906] Edited by: BlackDog Rackh''am on 30/08/2005 14:07:28 Csebal i agree that all cruisers need a boost,as i also agree with the idea of mixed fleets.However,if we boost them all to an equal amount,starting from the point they stand now,the rax will still be too much for the rest.I wouldn't like to see plates nerfed,because it will affect every cruiser,that already has a hard time against the rax now.Plates are good because they give you options to choose from and add more variety to the game. So,we have two options. One is to nerf the rax drone bay,and THEN boost everything(let's say you get 100m3 but more PG/CPU to fit some decent medium guns),so we start boosting equal ships.Equal means able to perform in a similarly adequate way in their INTENDED ROLE.That is,a rupture or moa at long range must be as good as a thorax at close range and as good as an omen at medium range. The other way is to leave the rax as it is,and give more turrets/CPU/PG to all the other cruisers but NOT to the thorax. Both of the solutions are fine with me.However,if the 1st one is used some of the rax drivers will complain about the nerf.If the 2nd one is used,the same rax drivers will complain that they didn't get a boost,and will cry that now they can never get in range to shoot,with or without plates. That will happen because,even when it's been stated far too many times already,a lot of people can't,or don't want to,understand the problem.The problem is that every cruiser has to choose between survivability (plate+small guns) or damage (small or no tank+med guns),except the thorax which can do both of them at the same time with ONE setup,thanks to the 8 heavy drones. So,i say let the rax drivers choose what they want.Do you want a smaller bay and the ability to fit a not so heavy but decent tank with medium guns as well?Or do you want to keep your drone bay and let all the other guys EXCEPT you fly around with more medium guns,while you use frigate blasters?Choose wisely,because in the end something's got to give.You can't have your cake and eat it(or gank your cake and tank it in this case )EDIT:I also agree with josephine.Make cruisers highly customizable ships,but don't make them do everything equally well.Make the cruiser pilot have to choose what they want to do well and what they don't mind having to do not so well. |
BlackDog Rackh'am Minmatar Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed |
Posted - 2005.08.30 14:04:00 -
[907] Edited by: BlackDog Rackh''am on 30/08/2005 14:07:28 Csebal i agree that all cruisers need a boost,as i also agree with the idea of mixed fleets.However,if we boost them all to an equal amount,starting from the point they stand now,the rax will still be too much for the rest.I wouldn't like to see plates nerfed,because it will affect every cruiser,that already has a hard time against the rax now.Plates are good because they give you options to choose from and add more variety to the game. So,we have two options. One is to nerf the rax drone bay,and THEN boost everything(let's say you get 100m3 but more PG/CPU to fit some decent medium guns),so we start boosting equal ships.Equal means able to perform in a similarly adequate way in their INTENDED ROLE.That is,a rupture or moa at long range must be as good as a thorax at close range and as good as an omen at medium range. The other way is to leave the rax as it is,and give more turrets/CPU/PG to all the other cruisers but NOT to the thorax. Both of the solutions are fine with me.However,if the 1st one is used some of the rax drivers will complain about the nerf.If the 2nd one is used,the same rax drivers will complain that they didn't get a boost,and will cry that now they can never get in range to shoot,with or without plates. That will happen because,even when it's been stated far too many times already,a lot of people can't,or don't want to,understand the problem.The problem is that every cruiser has to choose between survivability (plate+small guns) or damage (small or no tank+med guns),except the thorax which can do both of them at the same time with ONE setup,thanks to the 8 heavy drones. So,i say let the rax drivers choose what they want.Do you want a smaller bay and the ability to fit a not so heavy but decent tank with medium guns as well?Or do you want to keep your drone bay and let all the other guys EXCEPT you fly around with more medium guns,while you use frigate blasters?Choose wisely,because in the end something's got to give.You can't have your cake and eat it(or gank your cake and tank it in this case )EDIT:I also agree with josephine.Make cruisers highly customizable ships,but don't make them do everything equally well.Make the cruiser pilot have to choose what they want to do well and what they don't mind having to do not so well. |
 Nyxus |
Posted - 2005.08.30 16:11:00 -
[908]
That would make sense....... .............if my Heavy Drones and small Lasers/Rails weren't able to kill ceptors and other ships at 25km. I would hardly call that short range.  Give the Omen 6 turret hardpoints. Your shortrange Rax should never do more damage at medium range than my medium range specialty Omen according to you should it? I mean we all want to "boost cruisers up the the Rax level". Oh yea, the Thorax can do that type of damage and still mount a plate that adds 3300 armor. I want that for my Omen too. Omen with 6 heavy pulse II's and 3300 more armor plz.  It's silly to think that the aforementioned Omen would be balanced. It's just as silly to think that the Rax in it's current state is balanced. The dronebay should be reduced. Or if it wants to keep it's DPS and be short ranged king then limit it to blasters only and make its heavy drones limited to 5km. Oh wait that is silly too. Maybe we should just reduce it's dronebay then so it's in line with the other Gallente ships.  Nyxus |
 Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three |
Posted - 2005.08.30 16:11:00 -
[909]
That would make sense....... .............if my Heavy Drones and small Lasers/Rails weren't able to kill ceptors and other ships at 25km. I would hardly call that short range. Give the Omen 6 turret hardpoints. Your shortrange Rax should never do more damage at medium range than my medium range specialty Omen according to you should it? I mean we all want to "boost cruisers up the the Rax level". Oh yea, the Thorax can do that type of damage and still mount a plate that adds 3300 armor. I want that for my Omen too. Omen with 6 heavy pulse II's and 3300 more armor plz. It's silly to think that the aforementioned Omen would be balanced. It's just as silly to think that the Rax in it's current state is balanced. The dronebay should be reduced. Or if it wants to keep it's DPS and be short ranged king then limit it to blasters only and make its heavy drones limited to 5km. Oh wait that is silly too. Maybe we should just reduce it's dronebay then so it's in line with the other Gallente ships. Nyxus
|
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three |
Posted - 2005.08.30 16:11:00 -
[910]
That would make sense....... .............if my Heavy Drones and small Lasers/Rails weren't able to kill ceptors and other ships at 25km. I would hardly call that short range. Give the Omen 6 turret hardpoints. Your shortrange Rax should never do more damage at medium range than my medium range specialty Omen according to you should it? I mean we all want to "boost cruisers up the the Rax level". Oh yea, the Thorax can do that type of damage and still mount a plate that adds 3300 armor. I want that for my Omen too. Omen with 6 heavy pulse II's and 3300 more armor plz. It's silly to think that the aforementioned Omen would be balanced. It's just as silly to think that the Rax in it's current state is balanced. The dronebay should be reduced. Or if it wants to keep it's DPS and be short ranged king then limit it to blasters only and make its heavy drones limited to 5km. Oh wait that is silly too. Maybe we should just reduce it's dronebay then so it's in line with the other Gallente ships. Nyxus
|
 csebal |
Posted - 2005.08.30 16:56:00 -
[911]
You shouldn't compare turrets to drones / missiles. Its the most stupides thing ever done on these boards, and my mind always starts to melt away, when i see someone doing it. Missiles / drones have a terrible damage delay. Even at 10km, they take a good 10 seconds to reach the target, and start dealing some damage. Missiles do not have that delay after the patch, but instead they got their damage nerfed to an extent, that i could cry whenever i see on of them hit the target - not that i see too many lately. So if the target is fast enough, drones will never catch it, not even light ones. And FYI: 25km is about the end of short range. I doubt the average small gun (not talking about blasters and autocannons here) could deal any kind of noticeable damage at 25km with average skills. the real threat range is more like 15km, and FYI: small guns should very well kill any ceptor that spends too long time inside range. I do agree though, that heavy drones shouldn't be hitting frigates, esp. not ceptors. Med drones.. maybe. Light ones for sure. (see my last post about a more distinct separation of ship classes and their weapons)
Drones should do more dps than a gun of their class (and for that i consider heavy drones to be medium weapons, with mediums being small, and light ones being civilian class cr4p), just as missiles should do more dps than a gun of their class. Why? Because you cannot 'disable' guns, but you can destroy drones and missiles. You do not have to wait for the bullets to reach the target, but you have to wait for drones and missiles. Finally, you can't outrun bullets, but you can definitely outrun a missile or a drone (well.. not true for the missile anymore, not that it matters). So while MWDing against a gunship is suicide, MWDing against a drone carrier means no drones to hit ya. It is easy to talk about 'balance' and yell that it is 'too strong'. Have you considered all these factors? How long it takes before it starts dealing damage? How easily it can switch between targets? How fast they can be taken out, effectively disabling the attacking ship? How much more armor the drone carrier would need to survive an 1on1 fight with a gunship? These things all effect balance, and many more. I doubt you ever took the time to think about it, as it is easier to just yell: fix it. Well, for your info. It is not broken. The other cruiser? Thats another question. I'm trying to be constructive here. Are you? I suggest you try it. For all cases, do not talk about balance unless you know what that word means. - This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the HUN Corporation or that of the Imperium Alliance in any way. - - |
csebal Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2005.08.30 16:56:00 -
[912]
You shouldn't compare turrets to drones / missiles. Its the most stupides thing ever done on these boards, and my mind always starts to melt away, when i see someone doing it. Missiles / drones have a terrible damage delay. Even at 10km, they take a good 10 seconds to reach the target, and start dealing some damage. Missiles do not have that delay after the patch, but instead they got their damage nerfed to an extent, that i could cry whenever i see on of them hit the target - not that i see too many lately. So if the target is fast enough, drones will never catch it, not even light ones. And FYI: 25km is about the end of short range. I doubt the average small gun (not talking about blasters and autocannons here) could deal any kind of noticeable damage at 25km with average skills. the real threat range is more like 15km, and FYI: small guns should very well kill any ceptor that spends too long time inside range. I do agree though, that heavy drones shouldn't be hitting frigates, esp. not ceptors. Med drones.. maybe. Light ones for sure. (see my last post about a more distinct separation of ship classes and their weapons)
Drones should do more dps than a gun of their class (and for that i consider heavy drones to be medium weapons, with mediums being small, and light ones being civilian class cr4p), just as missiles should do more dps than a gun of their class. Why? Because you cannot 'disable' guns, but you can destroy drones and missiles. You do not have to wait for the bullets to reach the target, but you have to wait for drones and missiles. Finally, you can't outrun bullets, but you can definitely outrun a missile or a drone (well.. not true for the missile anymore, not that it matters). So while MWDing against a gunship is suicide, MWDing against a drone carrier means no drones to hit ya. It is easy to talk about 'balance' and yell that it is 'too strong'. Have you considered all these factors? How long it takes before it starts dealing damage? How easily it can switch between targets? How fast they can be taken out, effectively disabling the attacking ship? How much more armor the drone carrier would need to survive an 1on1 fight with a gunship? These things all effect balance, and many more. I doubt you ever took the time to think about it, as it is easier to just yell: fix it. Well, for your info. It is not broken. The other cruiser? Thats another question. I'm trying to be constructive here. Are you? I suggest you try it. For all cases, do not talk about balance unless you know what that word means. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Rest.In.Peace HUN |
csebal Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2005.08.30 16:56:00 -
[913]
You shouldn't compare turrets to drones / missiles. Its the most stupides thing ever done on these boards, and my mind always starts to melt away, when i see someone doing it. Missiles / drones have a terrible damage delay. Even at 10km, they take a good 10 seconds to reach the target, and start dealing some damage. Missiles do not have that delay after the patch, but instead they got their damage nerfed to an extent, that i could cry whenever i see on of them hit the target - not that i see too many lately. So if the target is fast enough, drones will never catch it, not even light ones. And FYI: 25km is about the end of short range. I doubt the average small gun (not talking about blasters and autocannons here) could deal any kind of noticeable damage at 25km with average skills. the real threat range is more like 15km, and FYI: small guns should very well kill any ceptor that spends too long time inside range. I do agree though, that heavy drones shouldn't be hitting frigates, esp. not ceptors. Med drones.. maybe. Light ones for sure. (see my last post about a more distinct separation of ship classes and their weapons)
Drones should do more dps than a gun of their class (and for that i consider heavy drones to be medium weapons, with mediums being small, and light ones being civilian class cr4p), just as missiles should do more dps than a gun of their class. Why? Because you cannot 'disable' guns, but you can destroy drones and missiles. You do not have to wait for the bullets to reach the target, but you have to wait for drones and missiles. Finally, you can't outrun bullets, but you can definitely outrun a missile or a drone (well.. not true for the missile anymore, not that it matters). So while MWDing against a gunship is suicide, MWDing against a drone carrier means no drones to hit ya. It is easy to talk about 'balance' and yell that it is 'too strong'. Have you considered all these factors? How long it takes before it starts dealing damage? How easily it can switch between targets? How fast they can be taken out, effectively disabling the attacking ship? How much more armor the drone carrier would need to survive an 1on1 fight with a gunship? These things all effect balance, and many more. I doubt you ever took the time to think about it, as it is easier to just yell: fix it. Well, for your info. It is not broken. The other cruiser? Thats another question. I'm trying to be constructive here. Are you? I suggest you try it. For all cases, do not talk about balance unless you know what that word means. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe. Rest.In.Peace HUN |
Sorja |
Posted - 2005.08.30 17:10:00 -
[914]
HAHAH! It was you!  Fun fight indeed, I love you guys, I mean it, you are a cool bunch  I was busy tackling some of your battleships so I only kept a missile launcher on you just... because I ♥ you Shame on you for forcing me to bail out before the fight was over Back on topic, I wasted my weekly Moa yesterday againt a Rax. Everybody in my corp wonders why I still fly that pile of poo, but hey! I'm sentimental and I swore I'd find a way to put that thing to any use (besides sniping, bleh, only for pussies). I knew I had no chance at all but my 'trash' fittings are tech I besides the mag stab II so I just engage whoever challenges me in remotely fair fights. We agreed on a planet, I warped at 15 and, lucky me! he also warped in at 15 so I didn't even need to use my MWD (note that the rax has a HUGE advantage when it comes to MWD, on top of everything else). Unfortunately, he had electron blasters fitted, just like me, so I could not avoid enough of his guns while killing his drones. The fight was over in less than 40 seconds, despite my 800mm plate, kinetic hardener and medium armor rep. Even a medium smartbomb (should I equip a smartbomb that cripples my powergrid only to fight thoraxes?) wouldn't have killed his drones in time, it requires around 50 seconds to get rid of the drones. When my ship exploded, his armor was still around 80% because a Rax has 3 mids, well enough to tackle, MWD and web, and 5 lows which allow very good tanking while the Moa can't use his wonderfull shield boost bonus since the mids are devoted to other things, forcing it to armor tank for dog fights. I had 5 small drones on him while he had 10 heavy drones, for the same guns. 25m¦ dronebay on a Moa for the lose In other words, boost the worthless cruisers FFS! Kill mails |
 Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North |
Posted - 2005.08.30 17:10:00 -
[915]
HAHAH! It was you! Fun fight indeed, I love you guys, I mean it, you are a cool bunch I was busy tackling some of your battleships so I only kept a missile launcher on you just... because I ♥ you Shame on you for forcing me to bail out before the fight was over Back on topic, I wasted my weekly Moa yesterday againt a Rax. Everybody in my corp wonders why I still fly that pile of poo, but hey! I'm sentimental and I swore I'd find a way to put that thing to any use (besides sniping, bleh, only for pussies). I knew I had no chance at all but my 'trash' fittings are tech I besides the mag stab II so I just engage whoever challenges me in remotely fair fights. We agreed on a planet, I warped at 15 and, lucky me! he also warped in at 15 so I didn't even need to use my MWD (note that the rax has a HUGE advantage when it comes to MWD, on top of everything else). Unfortunately, he had electron blasters fitted, just like me, so I could not avoid enough of his guns while killing his drones. The fight was over in less than 40 seconds, despite my 800mm plate, kinetic hardener and medium armor rep. Even a medium smartbomb (should I equip a smartbomb that cripples my powergrid only to fight thoraxes?) wouldn't have killed his drones in time, it requires around 50 seconds to get rid of the drones. When my ship exploded, his armor was still around 80% because a Rax has 3 mids, well enough to tackle, MWD and web, and 5 lows which allow very good tanking while the Moa can't use his wonderfull shield boost bonus since the mids are devoted to other things, forcing it to armor tank for dog fights. I had 5 small drones on him while he had 10 heavy drones, for the same guns. 25m¦ dronebay on a Moa for the lose In other words, boost the worthless cruisers FFS! ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North |
Posted - 2005.08.30 17:10:00 -
[916]
HAHAH! It was you! Fun fight indeed, I love you guys, I mean it, you are a cool bunch I was busy tackling some of your battleships so I only kept a missile launcher on you just... because I ♥ you Shame on you for forcing me to bail out before the fight was over Back on topic, I wasted my weekly Moa yesterday againt a Rax. Everybody in my corp wonders why I still fly that pile of poo, but hey! I'm sentimental and I swore I'd find a way to put that thing to any use (besides sniping, bleh, only for pussies). I knew I had no chance at all but my 'trash' fittings are tech I besides the mag stab II so I just engage whoever challenges me in remotely fair fights. We agreed on a planet, I warped at 15 and, lucky me! he also warped in at 15 so I didn't even need to use my MWD (note that the rax has a HUGE advantage when it comes to MWD, on top of everything else). Unfortunately, he had electron blasters fitted, just like me, so I could not avoid enough of his guns while killing his drones. The fight was over in less than 40 seconds, despite my 800mm plate, kinetic hardener and medium armor rep. Even a medium smartbomb (should I equip a smartbomb that cripples my powergrid only to fight thoraxes?) wouldn't have killed his drones in time, it requires around 50 seconds to get rid of the drones. When my ship exploded, his armor was still around 80% because a Rax has 3 mids, well enough to tackle, MWD and web, and 5 lows which allow very good tanking while the Moa can't use his wonderfull shield boost bonus since the mids are devoted to other things, forcing it to armor tank for dog fights. I had 5 small drones on him while he had 10 heavy drones, for the same guns. 25m¦ dronebay on a Moa for the lose In other words, boost the worthless cruisers FFS! ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
 Ashelth |
Posted - 2005.08.30 18:01:00 -
[917] Anyone else seeing some of the people screaming against nerfing the thorax the same ones screaming to nerf the raven? I am :) Tis funnah |
 Ashelth Caldari The Raven Warriors |
Posted - 2005.08.30 18:01:00 -
[918] Anyone else seeing some of the people screaming against nerfing the thorax the same ones screaming to nerf the raven? I am :) Tis funnah |
Ashelth Caldari The Raven Warriors |
Posted - 2005.08.30 18:01:00 -
[919] Anyone else seeing some of the people screaming against nerfing the thorax the same ones screaming to nerf the raven? I am :) Tis funnah |
Ravenge |
Posted - 2005.08.30 18:26:00 -
[920]
I had noticed a few names, but didn't want to say...
10.... i belive you mean 8, as a rax can't fit 10 heavy drones. |
 Ravenge |
Posted - 2005.08.30 18:26:00 -
[921]
I had noticed a few names, but didn't want to say...
10.... i belive you mean 8, as a rax can't fit 10 heavy drones. |
Ravenge |
Posted - 2005.08.30 18:26:00 -
[922]
I had noticed a few names, but didn't want to say...
10.... i belive you mean 8, as a rax can't fit 10 heavy drones. |
Manyara |
Posted - 2005.08.31 02:29:00 -
[923] Having just posted on the 'nerf the gankageddon' thread, I am well and truly on my soapbox. THE THORAX DOES NOT NEED NERFING!!!! Ohnoes, my ibis got blowed up by a uber rax! nerf it! Grow up. Get creative. Smartbombs kill drones. Friggie guns kill drones. Web a rax at 10k and his electron 2s wont scratch you. If you wanted to be really clever, you could web his drones before you shoot them too... NOTHING NEEDS TO BE NERFED AT THE MOMENT!!! The ship balance is pretty good in game, so some ships shine better in some roles than others, but if everyone was flying EXACTLY the same ship with EXACTLY the same capabilities, EVE would be boring. You're gonna die every now and then, coz there's always a bigger fish. So stop whining, start thinking. ---------------- How would you like your ass? |
 Manyara |
Posted - 2005.08.31 02:29:00 -
[924] Having just posted on the 'nerf the gankageddon' thread, I am well and truly on my soapbox. THE THORAX DOES NOT NEED NERFING!!!! Ohnoes, my ibis got blowed up by a uber rax! nerf it! Grow up. Get creative. Smartbombs kill drones. Friggie guns kill drones. Web a rax at 10k and his electron 2s wont scratch you. If you wanted to be really clever, you could web his drones before you shoot them too... NOTHING NEEDS TO BE NERFED AT THE MOMENT!!! The ship balance is pretty good in game, so some ships shine better in some roles than others, but if everyone was flying EXACTLY the same ship with EXACTLY the same capabilities, EVE would be boring. You're gonna die every now and then, coz there's always a bigger fish. So stop whining, start thinking. ---------------- How would you like your ass? |
Manyara |
Posted - 2005.08.31 02:29:00 -
[925] Having just posted on the 'nerf the gankageddon' thread, I am well and truly on my soapbox. THE THORAX DOES NOT NEED NERFING!!!! Ohnoes, my ibis got blowed up by a uber rax! nerf it! Grow up. Get creative. Smartbombs kill drones. Friggie guns kill drones. Web a rax at 10k and his electron 2s wont scratch you. If you wanted to be really clever, you could web his drones before you shoot them too... NOTHING NEEDS TO BE NERFED AT THE MOMENT!!! The ship balance is pretty good in game, so some ships shine better in some roles than others, but if everyone was flying EXACTLY the same ship with EXACTLY the same capabilities, EVE would be boring. You're gonna die every now and then, coz there's always a bigger fish. So stop whining, start thinking. ---------------- How would you like your ass? |
 j0sephine |
Posted - 2005.08.31 03:03:00 -
[926] "Having just posted on the 'nerf the gankageddon' thread, I am well and truly on my soapbox. (..) Grow up. Get creative. Smartbombs kill drones. Friggie guns kill drones." It helps if you read the thread before responding to it. And it helps to test the armchair commander tactics before you present them as solutions... (all advice you offered here was already offered and discussed over the course of this thread, couple of times by now. They don't really work on cruiser combat level. |
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.08.31 03:03:00 -
[927] "Having just posted on the 'nerf the gankageddon' thread, I am well and truly on my soapbox. (..) Grow up. Get creative. Smartbombs kill drones. Friggie guns kill drones." It helps if you read the thread before responding to it. And it helps to test the armchair commander tactics before you present them as solutions... (all advice you offered here was already offered and discussed over the course of this thread, couple of times by now. They don't really work on cruiser combat level. |
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.08.31 03:03:00 -
[928] "Having just posted on the 'nerf the gankageddon' thread, I am well and truly on my soapbox. (..) Grow up. Get creative. Smartbombs kill drones. Friggie guns kill drones." It helps if you read the thread before responding to it. And it helps to test the armchair commander tactics before you present them as solutions... (all advice you offered here was already offered and discussed over the course of this thread, couple of times by now. They don't really work on cruiser combat level. |
Nyxus |
Posted - 2005.08.31 04:58:00 -
[929]
<sighs> I don't know why I try to convince people who are living with thier head in the sand.....but come back to reality plz. The Omen I suggested above (6 High Slots with Heavy Pulse II's) is sarcasm for those saying "teh rax is fine" and "just boost oth3r cruzers plz". Boosting the Omen to be equal of the Rax makes it absurdly powerful. Just as the Rax is absurdly powerful. It's DPS with 8 drones, ability to fit a BS plate for super durability , and enough high slots to slap in small T2 guns for 20km+ ranged killing power is just too much. No other cruiser, in *ANY* configuration can do what it does.
Read the entire thread. Yes I have considered those things. And the dronebay on the Rax is still overpowered. FYI - heavy drones can traverse 15km in roughly 13 seconds (1050m/s base speed + 1000m range on drones). And they do 200dps. They can't be taken out easily...heavies have a ton of armor, massive radial velocity, and as it was earlier calculated it's gonna take at least 3 or 4 cycles of a smartbomb to kill em, something like 50 seconds. 8 HEAVY DRONES ON A CRUISER IS TOO STRONG. My god man, how many videos of people killing *everything* in a Rax do you have to see? How many stories like Sorjas, equally set up cruisers getting pwned in 40 seconds do you need? How many killboard link examples of a Rax taking on 2 battleships and a cruiser - AND KILLING 2 OUT OF 3 do you need before you wake up and smell the coffee? Look at the numbers and show me why the Rax needs all the drone space. It has more armor, the same firepower, and more drones than any other cruiser out there. Where's the drawback? Lastly;
THE DRONEBAY IS TOO BIG Let's follow Lorth's sound advice. Read the thread before you post. It has been looked at from all the angles. The dronebay is too big. Reduce the dronebay to 100 to help balance all the cruisers. Then consider what we can do to boost cruisers as a whole. Cancel your membership to the Tard Squad people. It's not the plate. All cruisers can fit plates. Nothing else can fit 8 heavy drones. Nyxus |
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three |
Posted - 2005.08.31 04:58:00 -
[930]
<sighs> I don't know why I try to convince people who are living with thier head in the sand.....but come back to reality plz. The Omen I suggested above (6 High Slots with Heavy Pulse II's) is sarcasm for those saying "teh rax is fine" and "just boost oth3r cruzers plz". Boosting the Omen to be equal of the Rax makes it absurdly powerful. Just as the Rax is absurdly powerful. It's DPS with 8 drones, ability to fit a BS plate for super durability , and enough high slots to slap in small T2 guns for 20km+ ranged killing power is just too much. No other cruiser, in *ANY* configuration can do what it does.
Read the entire thread. Yes I have considered those things. And the dronebay on the Rax is still overpowered. FYI - heavy drones can traverse 15km in roughly 13 seconds (1050m/s base speed + 1000m range on drones). And they do 200dps. They can't be taken out easily...heavies have a ton of armor, massive radial velocity, and as it was earlier calculated it's gonna take at least 3 or 4 cycles of a smartbomb to kill em, something like 50 seconds. 8 HEAVY DRONES ON A CRUISER IS TOO STRONG. My god man, how many videos of people killing *everything* in a Rax do you have to see? How many stories like Sorjas, equally set up cruisers getting pwned in 40 seconds do you need? How many killboard link examples of a Rax taking on 2 battleships and a cruiser - AND KILLING 2 OUT OF 3 do you need before you wake up and smell the coffee? Look at the numbers and show me why the Rax needs all the drone space. It has more armor, the same firepower, and more drones than any other cruiser out there. Where's the drawback? Lastly;
THE DRONEBAY IS TOO BIG Let's follow Lorth's sound advice. Read the thread before you post. It has been looked at from all the angles. The dronebay is too big. Reduce the dronebay to 100 to help balance all the cruisers. Then consider what we can do to boost cruisers as a whole. Cancel your membership to the Tard Squad people. It's not the plate. All cruisers can fit plates. Nothing else can fit 8 heavy drones. Nyxus
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